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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
To: "'GENG Liang'" <liang.geng@hotmail.com>, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "'Anton Ivanov'" <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, <netslices@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/gd92SSb4InjONysTYIZTrM2eA1Q>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion network slicing
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Geng Liang:=20

=20

The service models that MED suggests fit within the type of service =
model fits within the original topology model =
(draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo-12).   I2RS WG did not have a =
particular community of interested operators to work on services models =
for: =20

=20

=C2=B7         A service model to capture the requirements from =
applications/customers=20

=C2=B7         A service model to expose the capabilities of an =
underlying infrastructure=20

=20

These model would be a specific effort that parallels the TEAS efforts =
traffic engineering and QOS work.  This focus augments the TEAS and I2RS =
work.  =20

=20

These models could leverage the NETCONF/NETMOD capabilities linked to =
the I2RS topology work.  The new NETCONF/NETMOD capabilities support:

1)      New PUSH mechanisms in NETCONF/RESTCONF for better telemetry =
mechanisms for monitoring and OAM work, and =20

2)      dynamic datastores in the netmod data model structures:  =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores.   =


=20

Dynamic datastores allows different policies for models so that OAM =
functions can gather data from other data models across the network.   =
Dynamic datastores and the ephemeral datastore work in I2RS would =
provide the necessary =E2=80=9Cfoundations=E2=80=9D for your work =
tenant/provider OAM work in a secure fashion.=20

=20

Put simply, I2RS and TEAS have been building the foundations for =
applications like the net-slices service application.  By focusing on =
the service model, you can provide the requirements to these other WGs.  =
=20

=20

I would be glad to provide addition input on this topic.

=20

Best regards.=20

=20

Sue Hares=20

=20

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of GENG =
Liang
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 1:32 AM
To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Anton Ivanov; netslices@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion network slicing

=20

Hi Med, Anton and all

=20

I have my hands on with Med and Anton that defining models are currently =
the identified major issues of network slicing in the scope of IETF.

=20

As an additional layer of abstraction of =
infrastructure/resources/fuctions etc., it only makes sense when =
multiply slices co-exists on a shared network in a Network Slice =
Provider point of view. The level of dedication depends on Network Slice =
Provider's business model and Network Slice Tenant's requirements. =
Having this in mind and back to Anton's and Med's points of IETF works:

=20

Anton's suggestion

> 1. Layer 3 and higher protocols.

Yes if it is at the level of network slice concerns itself, not =
data/control plane for any flow QoS guarantee - this is not =
slice-specific issues.

> 2. Models describing network abstractions

Agree, maybe also plus information+service model capturing Network Slice =
Tenant's requirements

> 3. Interoperability with other IETF efforts.

Agree, many other IETF efforts maybe utilized in specific segment of a =
network slice instance. This should also echos with the layer of network =
slice abstraction.=20

=20

Med's suggestion

* A service model to capture the requirements from =
applications/customers

* A service model to expose the capabilities of an underlying =
infrastructure

If we regard service model as a specific type of data model, I suggest =
we also include information model which is more abstract inscope as =
well, especially for modeling requirements from application/customers. =
They don't need to know slice and these models are likely to be protocol =
nonspecific.

=20

* A mechanism to automate the process of requesting underlying services =
and handling these requests

Agree, I understand this as E2E/domain slice management and =
orchestration

* Some customized OAM

It is challenging to provide customized OAM to specific network slice =
tenant. However, I do agree this is an important feature for network =
slice since some Network Slice Tenant's would want certain level of =
control of their sliced network. This OAM has to be provisioned by =
network slice provider for reliability and security reasons.

=20

Best wishes

Liang GENG=20

China Mobile Research Institute

=20

From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com

Date: 2017-05-31 20:29

To: Anton Ivanov <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> ; =
netslices@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion network slicing

Hi Anton, all,

=20

I do fully agree with you here that we need to be specific about the =
expected work to be conducted within the IETF.=20

=20

For where I sit, I see "network slice" as a construct that allows to =
offer differentiated services when crossing a domain. These =
differentiated services can be differentiated IP transfer capabilities =
and may invoke advanced Service Functions (as per SFC).=20

=20

A network slice can be seen as an augmented version of the PDB =
(Per-Domain Behavior, RFC3086) concept since not only forwarding is =
differentiated but also other dimensions.

=20

Which technology-specific mechanisms are to be enabled to put into =
effect a slice is really a deployment matter.=20

>From that standpoint, the topics that I do think the IETF can contribute =
to are:

=20

* A service model to capture the requirements from =
applications/customers

* A service model to expose the capabilities of an underlying =
infrastructure

* A mechanism to automate the process of requesting underlying services =
and handling these requests

* Some customized OAM

=20

(please refer to draft-wu-opsawg-service-model-explained for a good =
definition on the service models)

=20

Cheers,

Med=20

=20

> -----Message d'origine-----

> De : Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Anton

> Ivanov

> Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 30 mai 2017 14:39

> =C3=80 : netslices@ietf.org

> Objet : Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion network slicing

>=20

>=20

>=20

> On 30/05/17 12:44, sebastian wrote:

> > Hello, Gert,

> >

> > Good points.

> >

> > There are various instantiations of a 'network slice' that are =
likely,

> based on a diverse array of usage scenarios.

> > These diverse instantiations of a 'network slice', with a =
corresponding

> allocation of the required logical or physical resources, should be

> allowed to suit different usage scenarios that may range from a =
'segment'

> to 'e2e' (end-to-end), in a 5G ecosystem.

> >

> > Hence a generalized definition for the instantiation of a 'network

> slice' such as the one referred to below (3GPP) is reasonable:

> >      "A set of network functions and the resources for these network

> functions which are arranged and configured, forming a complete =
logical

> network to meet certain network characteristics."

>=20

> That is excellent. And too broad. That can be anything from connection

> between two computers and a whole provider network. They both fit this

> rather elastic definition.

>=20

> So, in order for this to be discussed at IETF at all we should limit =
the

> scope a little bit to one or more subject areas worked on at IETF:

>=20

> 1. Layer 3 and higher protocols.

> 2. Models describing network abstractions

> 3. Interoperability with other IETF efforts.

>=20

> Otherwise, both the definition and the discussion should stay at 3GPP.

> They are good at discussing schemes of world domination, though from a

> point of view of network technology the results are quite often fit =
for

> Mr Bean, instead of Mr Blofeld (as intended).

>=20

> A.

>=20

> >

> > Many thanks.

> > -Sebastian

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Gert

> Grammel

> > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 6:17 AM

> > To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; =
teas@ietf.org

> > Cc: NetSlices@ietf.org

> > Subject: Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing

> >

> > Hi Daniele,

> >

> > See below for more details:

> >

> > On 2017-05-30, 10:17, "Daniele Ceccarelli"

> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> wrote:

> >

> >      Ciao Gert,

> >

> >      Please see in line

> >      Cheers

> >      Daniele

> >

> >

> >      -----Original Message-----

> >      From: Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gert =
Grammel

> >      Sent: luned=C3=AC 29 maggio 2017 15:34

> >      To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>;

> sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org; 'Igor Bryskin' =
<Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com>;

> 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'qiangli (D)'

> <qiangli3@huawei.com>; 'Leeyoung' <leeyoung@huawei.com>; teas@ietf.org

> >      Cc: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >      Subject: Re: [Teas] [Netslices] terminology discussion network

> slicing

> >

> >      Daniele,

> >

> >      Trying to summarize what you're saying: a Network slice is an

> overlay network with minimum service guarantees, including virtual =
network

> functions available in this overlay network.

> >      [>DC] why do you speak about an overlay network? If for example =
you

> have a site connected with a lambda to a data center and there you =
have a

> number of VNF, that's IMO a slice but there is no overlay. I'd say =
that

> there could be an overlay but that's not mandatory.

> > GGR> A Lambda travels through a WDM which is a Multiplexer (see

> discussion below). So a lambda is in my view an overlay, the =
multiplexed

> signal (OMS) being the underlay.

> >

> >

> >

> >      In your text I have issues with "dedicated to a given =
customer".

> Whether such construct is dedicated to one or shared among several =
legal

> customers shouldn't be of concern for the definition of a Network =
Slice.

> >      [>DC] Correct, it should be possible to have it dedicated or

> shared. We just need to make sure that both options are supported.

> > GGR>> So if it can either be dedicated or shared, why mentioning =
this at

> all? Is there anything else?

> >

> >      On similar terms, whether a resource (being a NF or transport

> capacity) is shared or not is a design choice rather than a =
definition. In

> particular, Multiplexer by definition share some sort of common =
capacity

> irrespective whether it is TDM, Packet, WDM or CDM. So, the nature of

> multiplexing technique shouldn't be a definition criteria for a =
Network

> Slice either.

> >

> >      Another food for thought:

> >      - I would also add that a network slice may use it's own =
internal

> addressing scheme isolated from other slices. While this is optional, =
I

> would expect it to be used quite often.

> >      [>DC] agree. Ala VPN.

> >

> >      - Why is it necessary to dedicate resources to a "Network =
Slice" at

> all? If e.g. a firewall NFV is in the DC and communicates over the

> Internet with a CPE (both belonging to a single owner) it would not =
fulfil

> the criteria of dedicated resource (Internet after all isn't =
dedicated),

> but it still looks pretty much like a "network slice".

> >

> >      [>DC] Think of remote surgery...wouldn't you want every single =
part

> of the end to end network from the doctor's hands to the scalpel being

> totally dedicated? :) ...and in that case I don't think the packets =
would

> go through the internet

> > GGR>> There are a few issues here:

> > 1) this example looks a bit out-dated to me. There is only a =
one-to-one

> relationship between doctor and patient. This is what I would call a

> classical client-server model with protected resources. Ask for SONET

> leased line circuits if this is what a "slice" would mean. In defining

> what constitutes a slice you would also have to think about what

> constitutes a "doctor-slice" and what would be a "patient-slice"?

> (assuming responsible health care to avoid sarcastic interpretation)

> > 2) The question asked in my earlier email is whether the packets =
*must*

> go through a dedicated resource to call the thing "slice". In other =
words,

> if a thing that uses a non-dedicated "underlay" resource like the =
Internet

> can be called "slice" too? It is puzzling to me why the definition of

> "slice" would need any dedicated resource at all. It is in the end an

> implementers choice how much dedicated equipment is needed to provide =
a

> service. So why a slice has to use "dedicated resources", and what =
kind of

> "dedication" is meant? (See our earlier discussion about WDM)? Take =
your

> mobile as an example. It supports telephony and email. Those are =
different

> apps, potentially running in different VMs.

> > a. Is your phone a shared device or a dedicated one?

> > b. does using different apps means to use a different slices?

> > c. If you write emails to different recipients, would that qualify =
your

> email to be "dedicated", hence a different slice, just because they =
are in

> different address books?

> > d. If you switch from 3G to VoIP, does it mean to switch the slice, =
even

> if it is the same app?

> >

> > GGR> My thinking is that the definition of "slice" needs to make

> practical sense. The 3GPP definition is probably a bit too high level =
but

> makes sense to me:

> >      "A set of network functions and the resources for these network

> functions which are arranged and configured, forming a complete =
logical

> network to meet certain network characteristics."

> >

> >      Gert

> >

> >      On 2017-05-29, 11:01, "Teas on behalf of Daniele Ceccarelli" =
<teas-

> bounces@ietf.org on behalf of daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> wrote:

> >

> >          Hi Sebastian, Jeff, Igor, all,

> >

> >          I understand Jeff and Igor agree on the fact that a network

> slice does not necessarily include resources in the radio =
segment/domain

> and in the packet core one.

> >          An example could be an enterprise with dedicated resources =
in

> the "transport" segment (e.g. VPN, VN and TE-tunnels) that connect the

> customer premises to a data center where a number of VNF (e.g. =
firewall,

> nat, dpi) is dedicated to that given customer.

> >          My personal opinion is that this should be considered a =
network

> slice.

> >

> >          The definition of network slice should allow for this =
scenario

> and mostly should clearly state whether this is included or not.

> >

> >          Sebastian, I don't understand if your statement:

> >          " The management and orchestration of resources should be

> capable of instantiating a 'network slice' with an e2e (end-to-end) =
scope,

> where the scope could be between two devices, connected across =
intervening

> radio networks and core networks that may belong to the same or =
different

> administrative domains."

> >          implies that there must be a radio and a core segment in =
order

> to have a slice.

> >

> >          BR

> >          Daniele

> >

> >

> >          -----Original Message-----

> >          From: sebastian [mailto:comscape@gmail.com]

> >          Sent: domenica 28 maggio 2017 07:12

> >          To: 'Igor Bryskin' <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com>; 'Jeff =
Tantsura'

> <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'qiangli (D)' <qiangli3@huawei.com>; =
Daniele

> Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; 'Leeyoung'

> <leeyoung@huawei.com>; teas@ietf.org

> >          Cc: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >          Subject: RE: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion =
network

> slicing

> >

> >          Hello, Jeff,

> >

> >          Agree with your view that the scope (core and/or radio =
layer)

> of a 'network slice' could vary depending on the triggers for

> instantiating the 'network slice'.

> >

> >          On the other hand the instantiation of a 'network slice' =
may

> also be e2e (end-to-end), such as in device roaming scenarios, or in =
the

> case of vertical services that span different service providers.

> >

> >          The span of a 'network slice' is only limited by the

> availability of resources and appropriate policies (e.g. SLAs),

> independent of whether those resources are in the core network layer =
or in

> the radio network layer.

> >

> >          The management and orchestration of resources should be =
capable

> of instantiating a 'network slice' with an e2e (end-to-end) scope, =
where

> the scope could be between two devices, connected across intervening =
radio

> networks and core networks that may belong to the same or different

> administrative domains.

> >

> >          Many thanks.

> >          -Sebastian

> >

> >

> >          -----Original Message-----

> >          From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf

> Of Igor Bryskin

> >          Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 7:56 AM

> >          To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; qiangli (D)

> <qiangli3@huawei.com>; Daniele Ceccarelli

> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>;

> teas@ietf.org

> >          Cc: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >          Subject: Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion =
network

> slicing

> >

> >          Thanks Jeff,

> >

> >          I am glad we are in sync.

> >

> >          Igor

> >

> >          -----Original Message-----

> >          From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]

> >          Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:45 AM

> >          To: Igor Bryskin; qiangli (D); Daniele Ceccarelli; =
Leeyoung;

> teas@ietf.org

> >          Cc: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >          Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network slicing

> >

> >          +1 Igor

> >

> >          From transport side (L0-L3) we need to expose set of =
API=E2=80=99s that

> would allow to request a set of resources (a slice) either virtualized =
of

> physical that meet the constrains as requested by the business logic.

> Radio, while would definitely be one of most important use cases, =
would

> not be exclusively for radio use only. Any network management/

> orchestration layer ideally should be able to use same set of =
API=E2=80=99s to

> request an e2e service.

> >

> >          Cheers,

> >          Jeff

> >

> >

> >          On 5/24/17, 05:26, "Teas on behalf of Igor Bryskin" <teas-

> bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com> wrote:

> >

> >              Hi Cristina,

> >

> >              I didn=E2=80=99t say that ns has nothing to do with =
radio. I said

> that ns *may* have nothing to do with radio, i.e. may support/enable

> network architectures that do not involve radio necessarily.

> >

> >              Igor

> >

> >              -----Original Message-----

> >              From: qiangli (D)

> >              Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 AM

> >              To: Igor Bryskin; Daniele Ceccarelli; Leeyoung;

> teas@ietf.org

> >              Cc: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >              Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Teas] terminology =
discussion network slicing

> >

> >              Hi Igor,

> >

> >              I share the same opinion on 5G and network slicing, but

> can't see the relation between this opinion and your conclusion that =
ns

> has nothing to do with radio.

> >

> >              Best regards,

> >

> >              Cristina QIANG

> >

> >

> >              -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----

> >              =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Igor Bryskin

> >              =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: =
2017=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8820=E6=97=A5 23:50

> >              =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: qiangli (D); Daniele =
Ceccarelli; Leeyoung;

> teas@ietf.org

> >              =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >              =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [Teas] terminology discussion =
network slicing

> >

> >              Hi Cristina,

> >

> >              People whose opinion I respect very much told me that =
even

> the 3GPP network slicing definition and effort is not 5G specific.

> Network slicing is viewed as an important capability of 5G, but it =
could

> serve other architectures.

> >

> >              Cheers,

> >              Igor

> >

> >              -----Original Message-----

> >              From: qiangli (D)

> >              Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:27 AM

> >              To: Igor Bryskin; Daniele Ceccarelli; Leeyoung;

> teas@ietf.org

> >              Cc: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >              Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Teas] terminology =
discussion network slicing

> >

> >              Hi Igor,

> >

> >              I have different opinion on " Network slicing may have

> nothing to do with radio".

> >              IMO, network slicing should be a resource-oriented

> management mode. The end-to-end network slice (from UE to server/other =
UE)

> of course involves the radio resource, usually we use the word =
"RAN-radio

> access network" rather than simply say "radio". The Frequency band, =
time,

> code, equipment/site, and software are a number of dimensions, in =
which

> RAN resources can be isolated [Online available

> =
http://www.huawei.com/en/industry-insights/mbb-2020/trends-insights/5g-

> service-guaranteed-network-slicing-whitepaper].

> >

> >              Best regards,

> >

> >              Qiang, Li (Cristina)

> >              NetLab, Huawei

> >

> >

> >              -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----

> >              =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netslices =
[mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Igor

> Bryskin

> >              =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: =
2017=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8820=E6=97=A5 6:12

> >              =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Daniele Ceccarelli; =
Leeyoung; teas@ietf.org

> >              =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >              =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology =
discussion network

> slicing

> >

> >              Hi Danielle,

> >

> >              Network slicing may have nothing to do with radio. 5g =
is

> just a big reason as to why the interest/focus is back on network =
slicing,

> which is a very old concept. I don't think that anyone is arguing with

> what you wrote. The questions are:

> >              a) how do you manage these "pieces"?

> >              b) what policy infrastructure should be put in place?

> >              c) how do you ensure their separation or, conversely, =
the

> degree of resource sharing?

> >              d) why exactly legacy VPNs are not good enough?

> >

> >              Cheers,

> >              Igor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >              -----Original Message-----

> >              From: Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of

> Daniele Ceccarelli

> >              Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 4:19 PM

> >              To: Leeyoung; teas@ietf.org

> >              Cc: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >              Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing

> >

> >              Hi Young, all,

> >

> >              i agree with your conclusion but would like to clarify =
one

> thing that IMO got lost in the discussion since its beginning.

> >

> >              The 3GPP definition says:

> >              "A set of network functions and the resources for these

> network functions which are arranged and configured, forming a =
complete

> logical network to meet certain network characteristics."

> >

> >              This means that a network slice IS NOT a VPN or a TE

> Tunnel.

> >              A network slice is "something" (netslices and 3GPP will

> define what this something is) that is composed by a "piece" in the =
RADIO

> domain, a "piece" in the CLOUD domain, a "piece" in the TRANSPORT =
domain,

> plus possible other pieces in possible other domains.

> >

> >              The word "transport" can be misleading here since one =
could

> think of transport technologies (e.g. WDM, OTN), but what I'm =
referring to

> as TRANSPORT DOMAIN is that part of the network that is used to carry =
a

> packet between two other domains.

> >              In order to have a slice, that portion of the transport

> domain needs to be engineered, hence it is all about building a TE =
entity

> and stitching services to such entity. This is what is in the ACTN =
scope.

> >

> >              My very personal opinion is that whatever belongs to =
the

> transport domain belongs to IETF (and is already being addressed), =
while

> the rest is a dangerous duplication of concepts standardized is other

> SDOs...but this is another discussion that doesn't fit here.

> >

> >              BR

> >              Daniele

> >

> >

> >              -----Original Message-----

> >              From: Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of

> Leeyoung

> >              Sent: venerd=C3=AC 19 maggio 2017 15:15

> >              To: teas@ietf.org

> >              Cc: NetSlices@ietf.org

> >              Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing

> >

> >              Hi,

> >

> >              Lou is right. There is a dedicated email list for the

> discussion of "network slicing (cc'ed)" and the discussion about what =
that

> term means should be held on that list.

> >

> >              We have used similar language in draft-ietf-teas-actn-

> framework right from the

> >              00 version. Recent changes have been an attempt to =
clarify

> what the terminology means in the context of ACTN. We are not trying =
to

> define or redefine "network slicing" in the ACTN document, but are =
trying

> to make it clear how ACTN works.

> >

> >              Therefore I propose the following resolution:

> >

> >              1. All discussion of the general applicability and

> definition of "network slicing" is held on the netslices mailing list.

> >

> >              2. We adopt Adrian's suggestion to explain that the =
scope

> of the definition of the terms used in the ACTN framework is limited =
to

> ACTN. That means effectively that if there are components of a wider

> definition of network slicing that are not supported by ACTN, that =
will be

> OK.

> >

> >              I propose to post an updated version in the next few =
days

> and I believe that will allow this draft to move ahead without being

> blocked by the discussion in netslices. Once the IETF has a stable

> definition of network slicing we can return and see how ACTN is =
applicable

> to that definition an whether more wok is need (in a separate draft).

> >

> >              Thanks,

> >              Young

> >

> >              -----Original Message-----

> >              From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]

> >              Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:35 AM

> >              To: Igor Bryskin <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com>; Belotti, =
Sergio

> (Nokia - IT/Vimercate) <sergio.belotti@nokia.com>; Gert Grammel

> <ggrammel@juniper.net>; Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>; teas@ietf.org;

> adrian@olddog.co.uk

> >              Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing

> >

> >              Perhaps it's time to bring the discussion to the =
slicing

> list and report back their reaponse....

> >

> >              Lou

> >

> >

> >              On May 16, 2017 8:31:19 AM Igor Bryskin

> <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com> wrote:

> >

> >              > Hi Sergio,

> >              >

> >              > I would also like to hear more from network slicing

> experts.

> >              >

> >              > My understanding is that the difference in the =
separation

> (in terms of

> >              > control and data planes, security, etc.). For =
example,

> traditional BGP

> >              > based L3 VPNs (that use provider's common control =
plane

> for their

> >              > management and IP/MPLS TE tunnels to inter-connect =
their

> PEs) will

> >              > probably not be able guarantee for the clients msec =
range

> connectivity

> >              > setup times required by 5g, while provided by the =
same

> provider fully

> >              > separated/genuinely private IP/MPLS networks (that do =
not

> share

> >              > IP/MPLS control plane and infrastructure, whose =
network

> topology is

> >              > supported by separate L0/L1 connections) hopefully =
will

> be able to

> >              > provide such guarantees. Therefore, I define layer

> network slices as

> >              > dynamically managed fully isolated in control and =
data

> planes private

> >              > TE layer networks, which may share one or more =
underlying

> server layer networks.

> >              >

> >              >

> >              > Cheers,

> >              > Igor

> >              >

> >              >

> >              >

> >              >

> >              > -----Original Message-----

> >              > From: Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of

> Belotti, Sergio

> >              > (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)

> >              > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:08 AM

> >              > To: Gert Grammel; Leeyoung; teas@ietf.org;

> adrian@olddog.co.uk

> >              > Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network

> slicing

> >              >

> >              > Hi Gert,

> >              >

> >              > "Thinking a bit about it I came to the point where =
"VPN"

> and "network

> >              > slices" seem to describe the same entity or at least =
a

> "network slice"

> >              > being a VPN of VPNs?"

> >              >

> >              > I share completely your conclusion , I'd like if =
someone

> can explain

> >              > if a difference really exists .

> >              >

> >              > Thanks

> >              > Sergio

> >              >

> >              >

> >              > -----Original Message-----

> >              > From: Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of

> Gert Grammel

> >              > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 7:02 PM

> >              > To: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>; teas@ietf.org;

> adrian@olddog.co.uk

> >              > Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network

> slicing

> >              >

> >              > Leeyoung,

> >              >

> >              > Thank you for taking a stab on this. Usually when =
getting

> to a

> >              > definition, I try to establish what kind of existing

> constructs would

> >              > fall under the definition. If my understanding is

> correct, the

> >              > following list of constructs would all satisfy the

> definition somehow.

> >              > - A TDM network with a p2p TDM connection

> >              > - A PSC capable network carrying a p2p circuit (such =
as

> EPL/EVPL)

> >              > - An MPLS LSP using a traffic engineered IP network

> >              > - A L2VPN using a traffic engineered MPLS network

> >              > - A L3VPN using a traffic engineered IP network

> >              > - A TCP connection using a traffic engineered IP =
network

> >              > - Different QoS classes in an IP network

> >              >

> >              > Thinking a bit about it I came to the point where =
"VPN"

> and "network

> >              > slices" seem to describe the same entity or at least =
a

> "network slice"

> >              > being a VPN of VPNs?

> >              >

> >              > Gert

> >              >

> >              >

> >              > On 2017-05-17, 16:44, "Teas on behalf of Leeyoung"

> >              > <teas-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of =
leeyoung@huawei.com =
<mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org%20on%20behalf%20of%20leeyoung@huawei.com> =
>

> wrote:

> >              >

> >              >     Hi Adrian and others,

> >              >

> >              >     We'd like cross check with you on some =
terminology we

> introduced newly. Any

> >              >     comment on these terms will be greatly =
appreciated.

> >              >

> >              >     We introduced 'network slicing' as follows:

> >              >

> >              >             Network slicing is a collection of =
resources

> >              >             that are used to establish logically

> dedicated virtual networks

> >              >             over TE networks. It allows a network

> provider to provide

> >              >             dedicated virtual networks for

> application/customer over a

> >              >             common network infrastructure. The =
logically

> dedicated

> >              >             resources are a part of the larger common

> network

> >              >             infrastructures that are shared among =
various

> network slice

> >              >             instances which are the end-to-end

> realization of network

> >              >             slicing, consisting of the combination of

> physically or

> >              >             logically dedicated resources.

> >              >

> >              >

> >              >     Thanks.

> >              >     Young and Daniele

> >              >     -----Original Message-----

> >              >     From: Leeyoung

> >              >     Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 1:41 PM

> >              >     To: teas@ietf.org

> >              >     Subject: RE: [Teas] I-D Action:

> >              > draft-ietf-teas-actn-framework-05.txt

> >              >

> >              >     Hi,

> >              >

> >              >     This update is intended to incorporate the =
comments

> from the last WG

> >              >     meeting and any pending issues. We also have =
taken

> the global editorial

> >              >     changes to make it consistent through the =
document.

> Major changes are:

> >              >

> >              >     - Inclusion of "network slicing" definition from =
ACTN

> perspective (in the

> >              >     terminology section)

> >              >     - Added virtual network service (VNS) section

> (Section 3) to define types

> >              >     of VNS.

> >              >     - Incorporated "orchestration" (service/network)

> mapping to ACTN

> >              >     architecture (See Section 5.2)

> >              >     - Created a new section 6 (Topology Abstraction

> Method) where we imported

> >              >     some texts from ACTN abstraction method

> >              >     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-teas-actn-

> abstraction-01

> >              >     - Added Appendices A & B to discuss example

> deployment scenarios such as

> >              >     example of MDSC and PNC functions integrated in

> Service/Network

> >              >     Orchestrator (Appendix A) and example of IP + =
Optical

> network with L3VPN

> >              >     service (Appendix B)

> >              >

> >              >     In regard to ACTN abstraction method draft, we =
are

> going to keep it as a

> >              >     separate draft and use this document to elaborate

> other aspects not

> >              >     imported to the framework document.

> >              >

> >              >     The following diff pointer will help you see the

> changes with this revision:

> >              >

> >              > =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-teas-actn-

> framework-05

> >              >

> >              >     The co-authors believe that the document is ready =
for

> WG LC. Any

> >              >     changes/comments will be appreciated.

> >              >

> >              >     Thanks & Best regards,

> >              >     Young & Daniele (on behalf of other co-

> authors/contributors)

> >              >

> >              >     -----Original Message-----

> >              >     From: Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf

> Of internet-drafts@ietf.org

> >              >     Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 10:41 AM

> >              >     To: i-d-announce@ietf.org

> >              >     Cc: teas@ietf.org

> >              >     Subject: [Teas] I-D Action: draft-ietf-teas-actn-

> framework-05.txt

> >              >

> >              >

> >              >     A New Internet-Draft is available from the =
on-line

> Internet-Drafts directories.

> >              >     This draft is a work item of the Traffic =
Engineering

> Architecture and

> >              >     Signaling of the IETF.

> >              >

> >              >             Title           : Framework for =
Abstraction

> and Control of Traffic

> >              >             Engineered Networks

> >              >             Authors         : Daniele Ceccarelli

> >              >                               Young Lee

> >              >     Filename        : draft-ietf-teas-actn-framework-

> 05.txt

> >              >     Pages           : 41

> >              >     Date            : 2017-05-05

> >              >

> >              >     Abstract:

> >              >        Traffic Engineered networks have a variety of

> mechanisms to

> >              >        facilitate the separation of the data plane =
and

> control plane. They

> >              >        also have a range of management and =
provisioning

> protocols to

> >              >        configure and activate network resources.  =
These

> mechanisms

> >              >        represent key technologies for enabling =
flexible

> and dynamic

> >              >        networking.

> >              >

> >              >        Abstraction of network resources is a =
technique

> that can be applied

> >              >        to a single network domain or across multiple

> domains to create a

> >              >        single virtualized network that is under the

> control of a network

> >              >        operator or the customer of the operator that

> actually owns

> >              >        the network resources.

> >              >

> >              >        This document provides a framework for =
Abstraction

> and Control of

> >              >        Traffic Engineered Networks (ACTN).

> >              >

> >              >

> >              >

> >              >     The IETF datatracker status page for this draft =
is:

> >              >     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teas-

> actn-framework/

> >              >

> >              >     There are also htmlized versions available at:

> >              >     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-

> framework-05

> >              >

> >              > =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-teas-

> actn-framework-0

> >              > 5

> >              >

> >              >     A diff from the previous version is available at:

> >              >

> >              > =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-teas-actn-

> framework-05

> >              >

> >              >

> >              >     Please note that it may take a couple of minutes =
from

> the time of

> >              >     submission until the htmlized version and diff =
are

> available at tools.ietf.org.

> >              >

> >              >     Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous =
FTP

> at:

> >              >     ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

> >              >

> >              >     _______________________________________________

> >              >     Teas mailing list

> >              >     Teas@ietf.org

> >              >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >              >

> >              >     _______________________________________________

> >              >     Teas mailing list

> >              >     Teas@ietf.org

> >              >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >              >

> >              >

> >              > _______________________________________________

> >              > Teas mailing list

> >              > Teas@ietf.org

> >              > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >              >

> >              > _______________________________________________

> >              > Teas mailing list

> >              > Teas@ietf.org

> >              > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >              >

> >              > _______________________________________________

> >              > Teas mailing list

> >              > Teas@ietf.org

> >              > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >              >

> >

> >

> >              _______________________________________________

> >              Teas mailing list

> >              Teas@ietf.org

> >              https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >

> >              _______________________________________________

> >              Teas mailing list

> >              Teas@ietf.org

> >              https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >

> >              _______________________________________________

> >              Netslices mailing list

> >              Netslices@ietf.org

> >              https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

> >              _______________________________________________

> >              Teas mailing list

> >              Teas@ietf.org

> >              https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >

> >

> >

> >          _______________________________________________

> >          Netslices mailing list

> >          Netslices@ietf.org

> >          https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

> >

> >          _______________________________________________

> >          Teas mailing list

> >          Teas@ietf.org

> >          https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >

> >

> >      _______________________________________________

> >      Teas mailing list

> >      Teas@ietf.org

> >      https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas

> >

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Netslices mailing list

> > Netslices@ietf.org

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Netslices mailing list

> > Netslices@ietf.org

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

>=20

> _______________________________________________

> Netslices mailing list

> Netslices@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

_______________________________________________

Netslices mailing list

Netslices@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Geng Liang: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The service models that MED suggests fit within the type of service =
model fits within the original topology model =
(draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo-12).=C2=A0 =C2=A0I2RS WG did not have =
a particular community of interested operators to work on services =
models for: =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:38.75pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C2=B7<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
A service model to capture the requirements from applications/customers =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:38.75pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C2=B7<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
A service model to expose the capabilities of an underlying =
infrastructure </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>These model would be a specific effort that parallels the TEAS =
efforts traffic engineering and QOS work.=C2=A0 This focus augments the =
TEAS and I2RS work. =C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>These models could leverage the NETCONF/NETMOD capabilities linked to =
the I2RS topology work.=C2=A0 The new NETCONF/NETMOD capabilities =
support:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>New PUSH mechanisms in NETCONF/RESTCONF for better telemetry =
mechanisms for monitoring and OAM work, and =
=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>dynamic datastores in the netmod data model structures:=C2=A0 <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datast=
ores">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastor=
es</a>.=C2=A0=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Dynamic datastores allows different policies for models so that OAM =
functions can gather data from other data models across the network. =
=C2=A0=C2=A0Dynamic datastores and the ephemeral datastore work in I2RS =
would provide the necessary =E2=80=9Cfoundations=E2=80=9D for your work =
tenant/provider OAM work in a secure fashion. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Put simply, I2RS and TEAS have been building the foundations for =
applications like the net-slices service application.=C2=A0 By focusing =
on the service model, you can provide the requirements to these other =
WGs. =C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I would be glad to provide addition input on this =
topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best regards. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>GENG =
Liang<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 1, 2017 1:32 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Anton Ivanov; =
netslices@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology =
discussion network slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Hi Med, Anton and all<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
I have my hands on with Med and Anton that defining models are currently =
the identified major issues of network slicing in the scope of =
IETF.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
As an additional layer of abstraction of =
infrastructure/resources/fuctions etc., it only makes sense when =
multiply slices co-exists on a shared network in a Network Slice =
Provider point of view. The level of dedication depends on Network Slice =
Provider's business model and Network Slice Tenant's requirements. =
Having this in mind and back to Anton's and Med's points of IETF =
works:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Anton's suggestion<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; 1. Layer 3 and higher protocols.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Yes if it is at the level of network slice concerns itself, not =
data/control plane for any flow QoS guarantee - this is not =
slice-specific issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; 2. Models describing network =
abstractions<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Agree, maybe also plus information+service model capturing Network Slice =
Tenant's requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; 3. Interoperability with other IETF =
efforts.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Agree, many other IETF efforts maybe utilized in specific segment of a =
network slice instance. This should also echos with the layer of network =
slice abstraction.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Med's suggestion<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
* A service model to capture the requirements from =
applications/customers<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
* A service model to expose the capabilities of an underlying =
infrastructure<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
If we regard service model as a specific type of data model, I suggest =
we also include information model which is more abstract inscope as =
well, especially for modeling requirements from application/customers. =
They don't need to know slice and these models are likely to be protocol =
nonspecific.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
* A mechanism to automate the process of requesting underlying services =
and handling these requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Agree, I understand this as E2E/domain slice management and =
orchestration<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
* Some customized OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
It is challenging to provide customized OAM to specific network slice =
tenant. However, I do agree this is an important feature for network =
slice since some Network Slice Tenant's would want certain level of =
control of their sliced network. This OAM has to be provisioned by =
network slice provider for reliability and security =
reasons.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Best wishes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Liang GENG <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
China Mobile Research =
Institute<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-left:6.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:#EFEFEF'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
rom:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com=
</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:#EFEFEF'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
ate:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;2017-05-31&nbsp;20:29<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#EFEFEF'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
o:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">Anton Ivanov</a>; =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:#EFEFEF'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ubject:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Hi Anton, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
I do fully agree with you here that we need to be specific about the =
expected work to be conducted within the IETF. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
For where I sit, I see &quot;network slice&quot; as a construct that =
allows to offer differentiated services when crossing a domain. These =
differentiated services can be differentiated IP transfer capabilities =
and may invoke advanced Service Functions (as per SFC). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
A network slice can be seen as an augmented version of the PDB =
(Per-Domain Behavior, RFC3086) concept since not only forwarding is =
differentiated but also other =
dimensions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Which technology-specific mechanisms are to be enabled to put into =
effect a slice is really a deployment matter. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
>From that standpoint, the topics that I do think the IETF can contribute =
to are:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
* A service model to capture the requirements from =
applications/customers<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
* A service model to expose the capabilities of an underlying =
infrastructure<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
* A mechanism to automate the process of requesting underlying services =
and handling these requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
* Some customized OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
(please refer to draft-wu-opsawg-service-model-explained for a good =
definition on the service models)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Med <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; -----Message d'origine-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; De&nbsp;: Netslices [<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.=
org</a>] De la part de Anton<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Ivanov<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;: mardi 30 mai 2017 =
14:39<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =C3=80&nbsp;: <a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Objet&nbsp;: Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; On 30/05/17 12:44, sebastian =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; Hello, Gert,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; Good points.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; There are various instantiations of a 'network slice' that are =
likely,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; based on a diverse array of usage =
scenarios.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; These diverse instantiations of a 'network slice', with a =
corresponding<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; allocation of the required logical or physical resources, should =
be<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; allowed to suit different usage scenarios that may range from a =
'segment'<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; to 'e2e' (end-to-end), in a 5G =
ecosystem.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; Hence a generalized definition for the instantiation of a =
'network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; slice' such as the one referred to below (3GPP) is =
reasonable:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;A set of network functions =
and the resources for these network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; functions which are arranged and configured, forming a complete =
logical<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; network to meet certain network =
characteristics.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; That is excellent. And too broad. That can be anything from =
connection<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; between two computers and a whole provider network. They both fit =
this<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; rather elastic definition.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; So, in order for this to be discussed at IETF at all we should =
limit the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; scope a little bit to one or more subject areas worked on at =
IETF:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; 1. Layer 3 and higher protocols.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; 2. Models describing network =
abstractions<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; 3. Interoperability with other IETF =
efforts.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Otherwise, both the definition and the discussion should stay at =
3GPP.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; They are good at discussing schemes of world domination, though =
from a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; point of view of network technology the results are quite often fit =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Mr Bean, instead of Mr Blofeld (as =
intended).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; A.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; Many thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; -Sebastian<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; From: Netslices [<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.=
org</a>] On Behalf Of Gert<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Grammel<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 6:17 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericss=
on.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; Hi Daniele,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; See below for more details:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; On 2017-05-30, 10:17, &quot;Daniele =
Ceccarelli&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericss=
on.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ciao =
Gert,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please see in =
line<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Teas [<a =
href=3D"mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
On Behalf Of Gert Grammel<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: luned=C3=AC 29 maggio 2017 =
15:34<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericss=
on.com</a>&gt;;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org">sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org=
</a>; 'Igor Bryskin' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com">Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com</a>&gt;;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
'qiangli (D)'<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com">qiangli3@huawei.com</a>&gt;; =
'Leeyoung' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:leeyoung@huawei.com">leeyoung@huawei.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: Re: [Teas] [Netslices] =
terminology discussion network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Daniele,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Trying to summarize what you're =
saying: a Network slice is an<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; overlay network with minimum service guarantees, including virtual =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; functions available in this overlay =
network.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [&gt;DC] why do you speak about =
an overlay network? If for example =
you<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; have a site connected with a lambda to a data center and there you =
have a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; number of VNF, that's IMO a slice but there is no overlay. I'd say =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; there could be an overlay but that's not =
mandatory.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; GGR&gt; A Lambda travels through a WDM which is a Multiplexer =
(see<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; discussion below). So a lambda is in my view an overlay, the =
multiplexed<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; signal (OMS) being the underlay.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In your text I have issues with =
&quot;dedicated to a given =
customer&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Whether such construct is dedicated to one or shared among several =
legal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; customers shouldn't be of concern for the definition of a Network =
Slice.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [&gt;DC] Correct, it should be =
possible to have it dedicated or<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; shared. We just need to make sure that both options are =
supported.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; GGR&gt;&gt; So if it can either be dedicated or shared, why =
mentioning this at<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; all? Is there anything else?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On similar terms, whether a =
resource (being a NF or transport<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; capacity) is shared or not is a design choice rather than a =
definition. In<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; particular, Multiplexer by definition share some sort of common =
capacity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; irrespective whether it is TDM, Packet, WDM or CDM. So, the nature =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; multiplexing technique shouldn't be a definition criteria for a =
Network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Slice either.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Another food for =
thought:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - I would also add that a =
network slice may use it's own =
internal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; addressing scheme isolated from other slices. While this is =
optional, I<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; would expect it to be used quite =
often.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [&gt;DC] agree. Ala =
VPN.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Why is it necessary to =
dedicate resources to a &quot;Network Slice&quot; =
at<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; all? If e.g. a firewall NFV is in the DC and communicates over =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Internet with a CPE (both belonging to a single owner) it would not =
fulfil<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; the criteria of dedicated resource (Internet after all isn't =
dedicated),<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; but it still looks pretty much like a &quot;network =
slice&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [&gt;DC] Think of remote =
surgery...wouldn't you want every single =
part<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; of the end to end network from the doctor's hands to the scalpel =
being<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; totally dedicated? :) ...and in that case I don't think the packets =
would<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; go through the internet<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; GGR&gt;&gt; There are a few issues =
here:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; 1) this example looks a bit out-dated to me. There is only a =
one-to-one<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; relationship between doctor and patient. This is what I would call =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; classical client-server model with protected resources. Ask for =
SONET<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; leased line circuits if this is what a &quot;slice&quot; would =
mean. In defining<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; what constitutes a slice you would also have to think about =
what<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; constitutes a &quot;doctor-slice&quot; and what would be a =
&quot;patient-slice&quot;?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; (assuming responsible health care to avoid sarcastic =
interpretation)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; 2) The question asked in my earlier email is whether the =
packets *must*<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; go through a dedicated resource to call the thing =
&quot;slice&quot;. In other words,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; if a thing that uses a non-dedicated &quot;underlay&quot; resource =
like the Internet<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; can be called &quot;slice&quot; too? It is puzzling to me why the =
definition of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &quot;slice&quot; would need any dedicated resource at all. It is =
in the end an<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; implementers choice how much dedicated equipment is needed to =
provide a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; service. So why a slice has to use &quot;dedicated resources&quot;, =
and what kind of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &quot;dedication&quot; is meant? (See our earlier discussion about =
WDM)? Take your<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; mobile as an example. It supports telephony and email. Those are =
different<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; apps, potentially running in different =
VMs.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; a. Is your phone a shared device or a dedicated =
one?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; b. does using different apps means to use a different =
slices?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; c. If you write emails to different recipients, would that =
qualify your<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; email to be &quot;dedicated&quot;, hence a different slice, just =
because they are in<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; different address books?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; d. If you switch from 3G to VoIP, does it mean to switch the =
slice, even<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; if it is the same app?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt; GGR&gt; My thinking is that the definition of =
&quot;slice&quot; needs to make<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; practical sense. The 3GPP definition is probably a bit too high =
level but<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; makes sense to me:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;A set of network functions =
and the resources for these network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; functions which are arranged and configured, forming a complete =
logical<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; network to meet certain network =
characteristics.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Gert<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 2017-05-29, 11:01, &quot;Teas =
on behalf of Daniele Ceccarelli&quot; =
&lt;teas-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bounces@ietf.org">bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf =
of <a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericss=
on.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi =
Sebastian, Jeff, Igor, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I =
understand Jeff and Igor agree on the fact that a =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; slice does not necessarily include resources in the radio =
segment/domain<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; and in the packet core one.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; An =
example could be an enterprise with dedicated resources =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; the &quot;transport&quot; segment (e.g. VPN, VN and TE-tunnels) =
that connect the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; customer premises to a data center where a number of VNF (e.g. =
firewall,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; nat, dpi) is dedicated to that given =
customer.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My =
personal opinion is that this should be considered a =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; slice.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
definition of network slice should allow for this =
scenario<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; and mostly should clearly state whether this is included or =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Sebastian, I don't understand if your =
statement:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot; =
The management and orchestration of resources should =
be<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; capable of instantiating a 'network slice' with an e2e (end-to-end) =
scope,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; where the scope could be between two devices, connected across =
intervening<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; radio networks and core networks that may belong to the same or =
different<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; administrative domains.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; implies =
that there must be a radio and a core segment in =
order<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; to have a slice.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
BR<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: =
sebastian [<a =
href=3D"mailto:comscape@gmail.com">mailto:comscape@gmail.com</a>]<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: =
domenica 28 maggio 2017 07:12<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: =
'Igor Bryskin' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com">Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com</a>&gt;; =
'Jeff Tantsura'<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
'qiangli (D)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com">qiangli3@huawei.com</a>&gt;; =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Ceccarelli &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericss=
on.com</a>&gt;; 'Leeyoung'<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:leeyoung@huawei.com">leeyoung@huawei.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: =
RE: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hello, =
Jeff,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Agree =
with your view that the scope (core and/or radio =
layer)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; of a 'network slice' could vary depending on the triggers =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; instantiating the 'network =
slice'.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On the =
other hand the instantiation of a 'network slice' =
may<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; also be e2e (end-to-end), such as in device roaming scenarios, or =
in the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; case of vertical services that span different service =
providers.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The span =
of a 'network slice' is only limited by =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; availability of resources and appropriate policies (e.g. =
SLAs),<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; independent of whether those resources are in the core network =
layer or in<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; the radio network layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
management and orchestration of resources should be =
capable<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; of instantiating a 'network slice' with an e2e (end-to-end) scope, =
where<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; the scope could be between two devices, connected across =
intervening radio<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; networks and core networks that may belong to the same or =
different<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; administrative domains.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Many =
thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
-Sebastian<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: =
Netslices [<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.=
org</a>] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Of Igor Bryskin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: =
Wednesday, May 24, 2017 7:56 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: Jeff =
Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
qiangli (D)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com">qiangli3@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Daniele =
Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericss=
on.com</a>&gt;; Leeyoung &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:leeyoung@huawei.com">leeyoung@huawei.com</a>&gt;;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: =
Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks =
Jeff,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am =
glad we are in sync.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: =
Jeff Tantsura [<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a=
>]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: =
Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:45 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: Igor =
Bryskin; qiangli (D); Daniele Ceccarelli; =
Leeyoung;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: =
Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +1 =
Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From =
transport side (L0-L3) we need to expose set of API=E2=80=99s =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; would allow to request a set of resources (a slice) either =
virtualized of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; physical that meet the constrains as requested by the business =
logic.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Radio, while would definitely be one of most important use cases, =
would<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; not be exclusively for radio use only. Any network =
management/<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; orchestration layer ideally should be able to use same set of =
API=E2=80=99s to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; request an e2e service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On =
5/24/17, 05:26, &quot;Teas on behalf of Igor Bryskin&quot; =
&lt;teas-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bounces@ietf.org">bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf =
of <a =
href=3D"mailto:Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com">Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Hi Cristina,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; I didn=E2=80=99t say that ns has nothing to do with radio. I =
said<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; that ns *may* have nothing to do with radio, i.e. may =
support/enable<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; network architectures that do not involve radio =
necessarily.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; From: qiangli (D)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; To: Igor Bryskin; Daniele Ceccarelli; =
Leeyoung;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Subject: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Hi Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; I share the same opinion on 5G and network slicing, =
but<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; can't see the relation between this opinion and your conclusion =
that ns<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; has nothing to do with radio.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Cristina QIANG<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; -----</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black'>=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=
=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: Igor Bryskin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: 2017</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
5</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
20</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 23:50<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: qiangli (D); Daniele Ceccarelli; =
Leeyoung;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E4=B8=BB</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black'>=E9=A2=98</span=
><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: RE: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Hi Cristina,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; People whose opinion I respect very much told me that =
even<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; the 3GPP network slicing definition and effort is not 5G =
specific.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Network slicing is viewed as an important capability of 5G, but it =
could<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; serve other architectures.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; From: qiangli (D)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:27 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; To: Igor Bryskin; Daniele Ceccarelli; =
Leeyoung;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Subject: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Hi Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; I have different opinion on &quot; Network slicing may =
have<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; nothing to do with radio&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; IMO, network slicing should be a =
resource-oriented<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; management mode. The end-to-end network slice (from UE to =
server/other UE)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; of course involves the radio resource, usually we use the word =
&quot;RAN-radio<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; access network&quot; rather than simply say &quot;radio&quot;. The =
Frequency band, time,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; code, equipment/site, and software are a number of dimensions, in =
which<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; RAN resources can be isolated [Online =
available<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"http://www.huawei.com/en/industry-insights/mbb-2020/trends-insigh=
ts/5g-">http://www.huawei.com/en/industry-insights/mbb-2020/trends-insigh=
ts/5g-</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
service-guaranteed-network-slicing-whitepaper].<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Qiang, Li (Cristina)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; NetLab, Huawei<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; -----</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black'>=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=
=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: Netslices [<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.=
org</a>] </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Bryskin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: 2017</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
5</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
20</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 6:12<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: Daniele Ceccarelli; Leeyoung; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>=E4=B8=BB</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black'>=E9=A2=98</span=
><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
: Re: [Netslices] [Teas] terminology discussion =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Hi Danielle,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Network slicing may have nothing to do with radio. 5g =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; just a big reason as to why the interest/focus is back on network =
slicing,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; which is a very old concept. I don't think that anyone is arguing =
with<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; what you wrote. The questions =
are:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; a) how do you manage these =
&quot;pieces&quot;?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; b) what policy infrastructure should be put in =
place?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; c) how do you ensure their separation or, conversely, =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; degree of resource sharing?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; d) why exactly legacy VPNs are not good =
enough?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; From: Teas [<a =
href=3D"mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 4:19 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; To: Leeyoung; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Hi Young, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; i agree with your conclusion but would like to clarify =
one<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; thing that IMO got lost in the discussion since its =
beginning.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; The 3GPP definition says:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &quot;A set of network functions and the resources for =
these<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; network functions which are arranged and configured, forming a =
complete<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; logical network to meet certain network =
characteristics.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; This means that a network slice IS NOT a VPN or a =
TE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Tunnel.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; A network slice is &quot;something&quot; (netslices and 3GPP =
will<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; define what this something is) that is composed by a =
&quot;piece&quot; in the RADIO<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; domain, a &quot;piece&quot; in the CLOUD domain, a =
&quot;piece&quot; in the TRANSPORT =
domain,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; plus possible other pieces in possible other =
domains.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; The word &quot;transport&quot; can be misleading here since =
one could<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; think of transport technologies (e.g. WDM, OTN), but what I'm =
referring to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; as TRANSPORT DOMAIN is that part of the network that is used to =
carry a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; packet between two other =
domains.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; In order to have a slice, that portion of the =
transport<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; domain needs to be engineered, hence it is all about building a TE =
entity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; and stitching services to such entity. This is what is in the ACTN =
scope.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; My very personal opinion is that whatever belongs to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; transport domain belongs to IETF (and is already being addressed), =
while<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; the rest is a dangerous duplication of concepts standardized is =
other<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; SDOs...but this is another discussion that doesn't fit =
here.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; BR<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; From: Teas [<a =
href=3D"mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Leeyoung<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Sent: venerd=C3=AC 19 maggio 2017 =
15:15<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Lou is right. There is a dedicated email list for =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; discussion of &quot;network slicing (cc'ed)&quot; and the =
discussion about what that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; term means should be held on that =
list.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; We have used similar language in =
draft-ietf-teas-actn-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; framework right from the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; 00 version. Recent changes have been an attempt to =
clarify<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; what the terminology means in the context of ACTN. We are not =
trying to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; define or redefine &quot;network slicing&quot; in the ACTN =
document, but are trying<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; to make it clear how ACTN works.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Therefore I propose the following =
resolution:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; 1. All discussion of the general applicability =
and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; definition of &quot;network slicing&quot; is held on the netslices =
mailing list.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; 2. We adopt Adrian's suggestion to explain that the =
scope<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; of the definition of the terms used in the ACTN framework is =
limited to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; ACTN. That means effectively that if there are components of a =
wider<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; definition of network slicing that are not supported by ACTN, that =
will be<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; OK.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; I propose to post an updated version in the next few =
days<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; and I believe that will allow this draft to move ahead without =
being<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; blocked by the discussion in netslices. Once the IETF has a =
stable<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; definition of network slicing we can return and see how ACTN is =
applicable<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; to that definition an whether more wok is need (in a separate =
draft).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Young<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; From: Lou Berger [<a =
href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a>]<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:35 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; To: Igor Bryskin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com">Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com</a>&gt;; =
Belotti, Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; (Nokia - IT/Vimercate) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sergio.belotti@nokia.com">sergio.belotti@nokia.com</a>&gt;=
; Gert Grammel<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;; =
Leeyoung &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:leeyoung@huawei.com">leeyoung@huawei.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a>;<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Perhaps it's time to bring the discussion to the =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; list and report back their =
reaponse....<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Lou<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; On May 16, 2017 8:31:19 AM Igor =
Bryskin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com">Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; I would also like to hear more from network =
slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; experts.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; My understanding is that the difference in the =
separation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; (in terms of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; control and data planes, security, etc.). For =
example,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; traditional BGP<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; based L3 VPNs (that use provider's common control =
plane<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; for their<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; management and IP/MPLS TE tunnels to inter-connect =
their<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; PEs) will<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; probably not be able guarantee for the clients msec =
range<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; connectivity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; setup times required by 5g, while provided by the =
same<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; provider fully<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; separated/genuinely private IP/MPLS networks (that do =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; share<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; IP/MPLS control plane and infrastructure, whose =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; topology is<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; supported by separate L0/L1 connections) hopefully =
will<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; be able to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; provide such guarantees. Therefore, I define =
layer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; network slices as<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; dynamically managed fully isolated in control and =
data<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; planes private<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; TE layer networks, which may share one or more =
underlying<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; server layer networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; From: Teas [<a =
href=3D"mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Belotti, Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:08 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; To: Gert Grammel; Leeyoung; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a>;<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Gert,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; &quot;Thinking a bit about it I came to the point where =
&quot;VPN&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; and &quot;network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; slices&quot; seem to describe the same entity or at least =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &quot;network slice&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; being a VPN of =
VPNs?&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; I share completely your conclusion , I'd like if =
someone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; can explain<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; if a difference really exists =
.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; From: Teas [<a =
href=3D"mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Gert Grammel<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 7:02 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; To: Leeyoung &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:leeyoung@huawei.com">leeyoung@huawei.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a>;<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [Teas] terminology discussion =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; slicing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Leeyoung,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Thank you for taking a stab on this. Usually when =
getting<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; to a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; definition, I try to establish what kind of =
existing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; constructs would<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; fall under the definition. If my understanding =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; correct, the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; following list of constructs would all satisfy =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; definition somehow.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; - A TDM network with a p2p TDM =
connection<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; - A PSC capable network carrying a p2p circuit (such =
as<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; EPL/EVPL)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; - An MPLS LSP using a traffic engineered IP =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; - A L2VPN using a traffic engineered MPLS =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; - A L3VPN using a traffic engineered IP =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; - A TCP connection using a traffic engineered IP =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; - Different QoS classes in an IP =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Thinking a bit about it I came to the point where =
&quot;VPN&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; and &quot;network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; slices&quot; seem to describe the same entity or at least =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &quot;network slice&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; being a VPN of VPNs?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Gert<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; On 2017-05-17, 16:44, &quot;Teas on behalf of =
Leeyoung&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org%20on%20behalf%20of%20leeyoung@huawei=
.com">teas-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of =
leeyoung@huawei.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi Adrian and =
others,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We'd like cross check with you on =
some terminology we<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; introduced newly. Any<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; comment on these terms will be =
greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We introduced 'network slicing' =
as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Network slicing is a collection of =
resources<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; that are used to establish =
logically<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; dedicated virtual networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; over TE networks. It allows a =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; provider to provide<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; dedicated virtual networks for<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; application/customer over a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; common network infrastructure. The =
logically<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; dedicated<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; resources are a part of the larger =
common<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; infrastructures that are shared among =
various<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; network slice<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; instances which are the =
end-to-end<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; realization of network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; slicing, consisting of the combination =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; physically or<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; logically dedicated resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Young and =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: =
Leeyoung<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 1:41 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: RE: [Teas] I-D =
Action:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; =
draft-ietf-teas-actn-framework-05.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This update is intended to =
incorporate the comments<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; from the last WG<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; meeting and any pending issues. =
We also have taken<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; the global editorial<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; changes to make it consistent =
through the document.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Major changes are:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Inclusion of &quot;network =
slicing&quot; definition from ACTN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; perspective (in the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; terminology =
section)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Added virtual network service =
(VNS) section<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; (Section 3) to define types<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of =
VNS.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Incorporated =
&quot;orchestration&quot; =
(service/network)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; mapping to ACTN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; architecture (See Section =
5.2)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Created a new section 6 =
(Topology Abstraction<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Method) where we imported<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; some texts from ACTN abstraction =
method<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lee-teas-actn-">https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-lee-teas-actn-</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; abstraction-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Added Appendices A &amp; B to =
discuss example<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; deployment scenarios such as<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; example of MDSC and PNC functions =
integrated in<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Service/Network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Orchestrator (Appendix A) and =
example of IP + Optical<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; network with L3VPN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; service (Appendix =
B)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In regard to ACTN abstraction =
method draft, we are<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; going to keep it as a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; other aspects not<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The following diff pointer will =
help you see the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; changes with this revision:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-teas-actn-">https:=
//www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-teas-actn-</a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; framework-05<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The co-authors believe that the =
document is ready for<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; WG LC. Any<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; changes/comments will be =
appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks &amp; Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Young &amp; Daniele (on behalf of =
other co-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; authors/contributors)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Teas [<a =
href=3D"mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Of <a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 10:41 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: [Teas] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-teas-actn-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; framework-05.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A New Internet-Draft is available =
from the on-line<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Internet-Drafts directories.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This draft is a work item of the =
Traffic Engineering<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; Architecture and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Signaling of the =
IETF.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Title&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
Framework for Abstraction<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; and Control of Traffic<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Engineered Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Authors&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : Daniele =
Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; =
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Young =
Lee<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Filename&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
draft-ietf-teas-actn-framework-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; 05.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Pages&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
41<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Date&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
2017-05-05<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Traffic =
Engineered networks have a variety of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; mechanisms to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; facilitate the =
separation of the data plane and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; control plane. They<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; also have a =
range of management and provisioning<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; protocols to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; configure and =
activate network resources.&nbsp; =
These<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; mechanisms<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; represent key =
technologies for enabling flexible<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; and dynamic<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
networking.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Abstraction of =
network resources is a technique<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; that can be applied<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to a single =
network domain or across multiple<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; domains to create a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; single =
virtualized network that is under the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; control of a network<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; operator or the =
customer of the operator that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; actually owns<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the network =
resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This document =
provides a framework for Abstraction<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; and Control of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Traffic =
Engineered Networks (ACTN).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The IETF datatracker status page =
for this draft is:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teas-">https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teas-</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; actn-framework/<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There are also htmlized versions =
available at:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-">https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; framework-05<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-teas-">https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-teas-</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; actn-framework-0<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A diff from the previous version =
is available at:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-teas-actn-">https:=
//www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-teas-actn-</a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; framework-05<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please note that it may take a =
couple of minutes from<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; the time of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; submission until the htmlized =
version and diff are<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; available at tools.ietf.org.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Internet-Drafts are also =
available by anonymous FTP<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; at:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-=
drafts/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Teas mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Teas@ietf.org">Teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/teas</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
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&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Teas mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Teas@ietf.org">Teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/teas</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
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&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt; =
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v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt; Teas mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Teas@ietf.org">Teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/teas</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt; Teas mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Teas@ietf.org">Teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/teas</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
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&gt; =
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v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; Teas mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Teas@ietf.org">Teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/teas</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; =
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v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Teas mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Teas@ietf.org">Teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/teas</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
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sp;&nbsp; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Teas mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Teas@ietf.org">Teas@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/teas</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
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sp;&nbsp; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Netslices mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
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Dear All,



We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include_text=3D1

Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.



Abstract:

   This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for

   network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related

   work and other potential solutions on network slicing.



   This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in network slicing.

Best regards,

Co-authors


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We have upload &quot;Gap Ana=
lysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft 00 on
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analy=
sis/?include_text=3D1">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?includ=
e_text=3D1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your comments and reviews ar=
e greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document p=
resents network slicing differentiation from the non-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; partition netwo=
rk or from simply partition of connectivity resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; It lists 15 sta=
ndardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; network slicing=
.&nbsp; It also presents an analysis of existing related<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; work and other =
potential solutions on network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This gap analys=
is document aims to provide a basis for future works<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; in network slic=
ing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Co-authors<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: "sebastian" <comscape@gmail.com>
To: "'qiangli \(D\)'" <qiangli3@huawei.com>, <NetSlices@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
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Dear Colleagues,

 

Thanks for delineating the prominent aspects of network slicing.

 

Here are some thoughts on terminology.

 

With the diverse nature of services in the 5G realm, where XaaS (Anything as
a Service) is an emerging paradigm, perhaps some of the legacy terminology
may need to be generalized.

For example, the term 'operator' was typically used with reference to
various types of 'access' modalities.

 

In NGMN, such terminology is being generalized.

NSP : Network Service Provider (instead of 'operator'): This entity only
provides 'access' type of services

SP: Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the network
layer, but may also behave as an NSP

 

Best wishes.

-Sebastian

 

 

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of qiangli (D)
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 AM
To: NetSlices@ietf.org
Subject: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

 

Dear All,

 

We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include
_text=1

Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.

 

Abstract:

   This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for

   network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related

   work and other potential solutions on network slicing.

 

   This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in network slicing.

 

Best regards,

 

Co-authors

 


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class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Dear Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Thanks for delineating the prominent aspects =
of network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Here are some thoughts on =
terminology.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>With the diverse nature of services in the =
5G realm, where XaaS (Anything as a Service) is an emerging paradigm, =
perhaps some of the legacy terminology may need to be =
generalized.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>For example, the term &#8216;operator&#8217; =
was typically used with reference to various types of =
&#8216;access&#8217; modalities.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>In NGMN, such terminology is being =
generalized.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>NSP</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'> : Network Service Provider (instead of =
&#8216;operator&#8217;): This entity only provides &#8216;access&#8217; =
type of services<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>SP</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>: Service Provider: This entity provides any =
service above the network layer, but may also behave as an =
NSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Best wishes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>-Sebastian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p><span =
style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> Netslices =
[mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>qiangli =
(D)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
NetSlices@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Netslices] =
draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 =
Uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Dear =
All,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>We have =
upload &quot;Gap Analysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft 00 on <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analys=
is/?include_text=3D1">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netsli=
ces-gap-analysis/?include_text=3D1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Your =
comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; This document presents =
network slicing differentiation from the non-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; partition network or =
from simply partition of connectivity resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; It lists 15 =
standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; network slicing.&nbsp; =
It also presents an analysis of existing related<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; work and other =
potential solutions on network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; This gap analysis =
document aims to provide a basis for future =
works<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; in network =
slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Co-authors<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></=
body></html>
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Thread-Topic: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
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Hi Cristina,

Thank you for sharing the draft. Please find below some comments, fwiw:

(1) Section 4.2.1 mentions the following:


"the [SLA-Exchange<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-an=
alysis-00#ref-SLA-Exchange>] can be used to
   negotiate the SLAs and report on SLA events.  Further analysis is
   needed to provide a complete package.
"


Actually, this is not possible with [SLA-Exchange] given that document says=
 explicitly: "The SLA negotiation and assurance is outside the scope of thi=
s document."

(2) Section 4.2.2. says the following:


   The NSRS requirement for reachability, direction, bandwidth

   requirements, performance metrics, traffic isolation constraints, and

   flow identification can be built utilizing protocol which can perform

   operations (read, write, notification, actions (aka rpcs)) on a yang

   service layer that supports these traffic engineer and resource

   definition at the service layers.  The network slicing service data

   model can extend existing work in the TEAS and I2RS working group for

   protocol-independent topology models.  These models support

   configuration or the dynamic datastores defined in [NMDA<https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00#ref-NMDA>] which will

   be abbreviated as NMDA in this section.  This section provides the

   detail on how the NSRS can be built from these models and the

   RESTCONF protocol.

I'm a little bit puzzled here given that the NSRS is not about interacting =
with underlying network nodes. Especially, I'm not sure to understand the d=
iscussion about "protocol which can perform operations (read, write, notifi=
cation, actions (aka rpcs))" in this context.


(3) Table 2:



=B7         Putting aside what is meant by "NS state monitoring", is there =
any particular reason "Mechanism/protocols for NS state monitoring;" is lis=
ted under NSRS? This is IMHO more an OAM issue.

=B7         Item "8) Mechanisms for on-demand, isolated, elastic and effici=
ent network slice instantiation and resource association" is mysterious. I =
failed to find where that item is discussed in Section 6.

=B7         I'm not sure to understand what is meant by "10) Mechanisms for=
 customized network slices".

=B7         Items 12 and 13 are not related to NS identification. Further, =
those are not discussed in the corresponding section.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Med

De : Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de qiangli (D=
)
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 2 juin 2017 11:36
=C0 : NetSlices@ietf.org
Objet : [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded


Dear All,



We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include_text=3D1

Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.



Abstract:

   This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for

   network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related

   work and other potential solutions on network slicing.



   This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in network slicing.

Best regards,

Co-authors


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Cristina,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Thank you for sharing the draft=
. Please find below some comments, fwiw:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">(1) Section 4.2.1 mentions the =
following:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">the [</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qiang-nets=
lices-gap-analysis-00#ref-SLA-Exchange"><span lang=3D"EN-US">SLA-Exchange</=
span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US">] can be used to<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; negotiate the SLAs and report on SLA events.&nbsp; Further anal=
ysis is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; needed to provide a complete package.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Actually, this is not possi=
ble with [SLA-Exchange] given that document says explicitly: &#8220;</span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The SLA negotiation and assurance is outside the scope=
 of this document.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">(2) Section 4.2.2. says the fol=
lowing:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; The NSRS requirement for reachabilit=
y, direction, bandwidth<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; requirements, performance metrics, t=
raffic isolation constraints, and<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; flow identification can be built uti=
lizing protocol which can perform<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; operations (read, write, notificatio=
n, actions (aka rpcs)) on a yang<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; service layer that supports these tr=
affic engineer and resource<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; definition at the service layers.&nb=
sp; The network slicing service data<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; model can extend existing work in th=
e TEAS and I2RS working group for<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol-independent topology models=
.&nbsp; These models support<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; configuration or the dynamic datasto=
res defined in [</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qiang-n=
etslices-gap-analysis-00#ref-NMDA" title=3D"&quot;Network Management Datast=
ore Architecture&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">NMDA</span></a><span lang=3D"E=
N-US">] which will<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; be abbreviated as NMDA in this secti=
on.&nbsp; This section provides the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; detail on how the NSRS can be built =
from these models and the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>RESTCONF protocol.<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">I&#8217;m a little bit puzzled =
here given that the NSRS is not about interacting with underlying network n=
odes. Especially, I&#8217;m not sure to understand the discussion
 about &#8220;protocol which can perform operations (read, write, notificat=
ion, actions (aka rpcs))&#8221; in this context.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">(3) Table 2:<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Symbol;co=
lor:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">P=
utting aside what is meant by &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">NS state m=
onitoring</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&#8220;, is ther=
e any particular reason &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Mechanism/protoc=
ols for NS state monitoring;&#8221; is listed under NSRS? This is IMHO more=
 an OAM issue. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Symbol;co=
lor:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Item &#8220;8) Mechanis=
ms for on-demand, isolated, elastic and efficient network slice instantiati=
on and resource association&#8221; is mysterious. I failed to find where th=
at item is discussed in Section 6.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Symbol;co=
lor:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#8217;m not sure to u=
nderstand what is meant by &#8220;10) Mechanisms for customized network sli=
ces&#8221;. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Symbol;co=
lor:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Items 12 and 13 are not=
 related to NS identification. Further, those are not discussed in the corr=
esponding section. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Netslice=
s [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>De la part de</b> qiangli (D)<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;</b></span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> vendred=
i 2 juin 2017 11:36<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> NetSlices@ietf.org<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploa=
ded<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">We have upload &quot;Gap Analysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft =
00 on
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analy=
sis/?include_text=3D1">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?includ=
e_text=3D1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document presents network slicing differentiatio=
n from the non-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; partition network or from simply partition of connect=
ivity resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key req=
uirements for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; network slicing.&nbsp; It also presents an analysis o=
f existing related<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; work and other potential solutions on network slicing=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis fo=
r future works<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; in network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Co-authors<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E77AEFOPEXCLILMA3corp_--


From nobody Fri Jun  2 07:21:12 2017
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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
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Hello,

I have just skimmed the first part of the document.

1.) If you pull in terms defined in other drafts or (proposed) 
standards, please include the references. (random example: MDSC is 
defined in I.D-ietf-teas-actn-framework, I think).

If it is not getting too big and if it is vital to grasp the context of 
the draft, I would suggest to pull in the complete definition (and still 
reference the source, of course).

2.) Some terms I can only guess what they mean in this context, examples 
include terminal, guarantee, or the scope of the expression "individual 
parts and pieces of the overall system", which is probably something 
like every system entity or subsystem that is required to provide the 
capabilities of a differentiable network slice?

3.) In general, I like section 4.1 very much. It enables a good 
understanding of what are important characteristics of a network slice 
that are potential KPI.

4.) I would like to see an explicit differentiation and definition of 
the terms action, task, procedure (and maybe even a "middle-layer" term 
between action and procedure called activity - a building block of 
actions that can compose procedures). The terms mentioned above imply a 
specialization (and there for a some sort of taxonomy) that can be used 
to map actual running solutions and actions that can be performed by 
them - to more general procedures that are required to create a network 
slice on an architectural level.

5.) I like the Topology Hierarchy (Stack) in Figure 2, but I am not sure 
if the expressiveness of, e.g. draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology 
satisfies the requirements of network slicing. For example, top-of-the 
rack data plane units, which physical ports are mapped to multiple 
redundant endpoints that maintain a partially merged control plane (to 
handle the redundant mapping) but are separate information systems on 
the management plane cannot be modeled, I think. This is just one of the 
more complex examples that fall under the scope of resilience (see below).

6.) In general, the topic Guaranteed Slice Performance and Isolation 
does not seem to address availability or resilience of a or inside a 
network slice. Is that out of scope? That is why I would like a better 
understanding of what can be "guaranteed" in general (see item 2. above).

7.) I find the title 7.3. Abstraction of Network in Network confusing 
after reading the content of that section.


This was just a quick first pass. In general, this is an excellent 
contribution and really focuses an essential part of the ongoing 
activities! Thank you!


Viele Grüße,

Henk








On 06/02/2017 11:36 AM, qiangli (D) wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include_text=1
> 
> Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.
> 
> Abstract:
> 
>     This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-
> 
>     partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.
> 
>     It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for
> 
>     network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related
> 
>     work and other potential solutions on network slicing.
> 
>     This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works
> 
>     in network slicing.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Co-authors
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> 


From nobody Fri Jun  2 07:24:18 2017
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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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+1 aggregating and defining of legacy, current and maybe "new" terms 
will prevent confusing when trying to talk about the same thing.

BR,
Henk

On 06/02/2017 03:30 PM, sebastian wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> Thanks for delineating the prominent aspects of network slicing.
> 
> Here are some thoughts on terminology.
> 
> With the diverse nature of services in the 5G realm, where XaaS 
> (Anything as a Service) is an emerging paradigm, perhaps some of the 
> legacy terminology may need to be generalized.
> 
> For example, the term ‘operator’ was typically used with reference to 
> various types of ‘access’ modalities.
> 
> In NGMN, such terminology is being generalized.
> 
> *NSP*: Network Service Provider (instead of ‘operator’): This entity 
> only provides ‘access’ type of services
> 
> *SP*: Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the 
> network layer, but may also behave as an NSP
> 
> Best wishes.
> 
> -Sebastian
> 
> *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *qiangli (D)
> *Sent:* Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 AM
> *To:* NetSlices@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include_text=1
> 
> Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.
> 
> Abstract:
> 
>     This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-
> 
>     partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.
> 
>     It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for
> 
>     network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related
> 
>     work and other potential solutions on network slicing.
> 
>     This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works
> 
>     in network slicing.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Co-authors
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> 


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Reply-To: <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>
From: "sebastian" <comscape@gmail.com>
To: "'GENG Liang'" <liang.geng@hotmail.com>, "'sebastian.thalanany'" <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>, "'qiangli \(D\)'" <qiangli3@huawei.com>, <NetSlices@ietf.org>
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In-Reply-To: <HK2PR06MB0913CB13A7089DE72A48D2AE87F70@HK2PR06MB0913.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 21:49:33 -0500
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/wXMzUAvMNrvLeXY0oLMRBeJUjzs>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
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Hello, Liang,

=20

Thanks for the reference draft.

The terminology with respect to the various aspects of a network slice =
and related abstractions, look good.

=20

In several sections of the draft there are references to the term =
=E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99, in different contexts.

=20

A generalized distinction, in terms of NSP and SP would be relevant in =
the draft, from a forward-looking perspective, where domain owners may =
either just be an NSP or an SP, or an SP that also behaves as an NSP.

NSP : Network Service Provider (instead of =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99): =
This entity only provides =E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 type of services

SP: Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the network =
layer, but may also behave as an NSP

=20

Happy to scrub the text, with tracked changes with generalized =
terminology that uses SP and NSP, instead of =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99

=20

Many thanks.

-Sebastian

=20

=20

From: GENG Liang [mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com]=20
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 3:59 PM
To: sebastian.thalanany <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>; 'qiangli (D)' =
<qiangli3@huawei.com>; NetSlices@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 =
Uploaded

=20

Hi Sebastian,

=20

We have defined term with similar generalization concernsin Architecture =
draft. All other rnetslices draft is referring to these terminologies. =
This document can be find here

 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01=20





Best wishes

Liang

=20

  _____ =20

Liang GENG=20

China Mobile Research Institute

=20

From: sebastian <mailto:comscape@gmail.com>=20

Date: 2017-06-02 21:30

To: 'qiangli \(D\)' <mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com> ; NetSlices@ietf.org =
<mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>=20

Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

Dear Colleagues,

=20

Thanks for delineating the prominent aspects of network slicing.

=20

Here are some thoughts on terminology.

=20

With the diverse nature of services in the 5G realm, where XaaS =
(Anything as a Service) is an emerging paradigm, perhaps some of the =
legacy terminology may need to be generalized.

For example, the term =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99 was typically used with =
reference to various types of =E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 modalities.

=20

In NGMN, such terminology is being generalized.

NSP : Network Service Provider (instead of =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99): =
This entity only provides =E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 type of services

SP: Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the network =
layer, but may also behave as an NSP

=20

Best wishes.

-Sebastian

=20

=20

From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of qiangli =
(D)
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 AM
To: NetSlices@ietf.org <mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

=20

Dear All,

=20

We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?incl=
ude_text=3D1

Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.

=20

Abstract:

   This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for

   network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related

   work and other potential solutions on network slicing.

=20

   This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in network slicing.

=20

Best regards,

=20

Co-authors

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Hello, Liang,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Thanks for the reference =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>The terminology with respect to the various =
aspects of a network slice and related abstractions, look =
good.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>In several sections of the draft there are =
references to the term =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99, in different =
contexts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>A generalized distinction, in terms of NSP =
and SP would be relevant in the draft, from a forward-looking =
perspective, where domain owners may either just be an NSP or an SP, or =
an SP that also behaves as an NSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>NSP</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'> : Network Service Provider (instead of =
=E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99): This entity only provides =
=E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 type of services</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>SP</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>: Service Provider: This entity provides any =
service above the network layer, but may also behave as an =
NSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Happy to scrub the text, with tracked =
changes with generalized terminology that uses SP and NSP, instead of =
=E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Many thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>-Sebastian</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p><span =
style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> GENG Liang =
[mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 2, 2017 =
3:59 PM<br><b>To:</b> sebastian.thalanany =
&lt;sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org&gt;; 'qiangli (D)' =
&lt;qiangli3@huawei.com&gt;; NetSlices@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 =
Uploaded<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Hi=
 Sebastian,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>We=
 have defined term with similar generalization concernsin Architecture =
draft. All other rnetslices draft is referring to these terminologies. =
This document can be find here<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><a=
 =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01"=
><span =
style=3D'background:white'>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslic=
es-architecture-01</span></a>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><b=
r><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Be=
st wishes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Li=
ang<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><h=
r size=3D2 width=3D473 style=3D'width:157.5pt' noshade =
style=3D'color:#B5C4DF' align=3Dleft></span></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Li=
ang GENG <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Ch=
ina Mobile Research =
Institute<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-left:6.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:#EFEFEF'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Fro=
m:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:comscape@gmail.com">sebastian</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#EFEFEF'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Dat=
e:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;2017-06-02&nbsp;21:30<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#EFEFEF'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>To:=
</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<a href=3D"mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com">'qiangli \(D\)'</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:#EFEFEF'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Sub=
ject:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 =
Uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Dear Colleagues,</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Thanks for delineating the prominent aspects =
of network slicing.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Here are some thoughts on =
terminology.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>With the diverse nature of services in the =
5G realm, where XaaS (Anything as a Service) is an emerging paradigm, =
perhaps some of the legacy terminology may need to be =
generalized.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>For example, the term =
=E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99 was typically used with reference to various =
types of =E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 modalities.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>In NGMN, such terminology is being =
generalized.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>NSP</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'> : Network Service Provider (instead of =
=E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99): This entity only provides =
=E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 type of services</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>SP</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>: Service Provider: This entity provides any =
service above the network layer, but may also behave as an =
NSP</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Best wishes.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>-Sebastian</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><b><span =
style=3D'color:black'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'> =
Netslices [<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.=
org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>qiangli (D)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 2, =
2017 4:36 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:<=
/b> [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 =
Uploaded</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Dear =
All,</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;<=
/span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>We =
have upload &quot;Gap Analysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft 00 on <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analys=
is/?include_text=3D1">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netsli=
ces-gap-analysis/?include_text=3D1</a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Your =
comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;<=
/span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Abstrac=
t:</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&=
nbsp; This document presents network slicing differentiation from the =
non-</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&=
nbsp; partition network or from simply partition of connectivity =
resources.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&=
nbsp; It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements =
for</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&=
nbsp; network slicing.&nbsp; It also presents an analysis of existing =
related</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&=
nbsp; work and other potential solutions on network slicing.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;<=
/span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&=
nbsp; This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future =
works</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&=
nbsp; in network slicing.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;<=
/span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Best =
regards,</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;<=
/span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Co-auth=
ors</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;<=
/span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>=
</blockquote></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D2DBEA.1F799E60--


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/5AfafvzX4_Bx455pMjEEjj6iGxk>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] New nersion notification for draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement
X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org
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Dear All,=20

The authors of netslices-revised-problem-statement draft have uploaded =
the latest version as below.=20

We are kindly requesting review/comments/further contributions from the =
mailing list.


Name:		draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement (i.e. it =
replaces draft-gdmb-netslices-intro-and-ps-02.txt)
Revision:	00
Title:		Network Slicing - Revised Problem Statement
Document date:	2017-06-02
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		26
URL:              =
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem=
-statement-00.txt
Status:           =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-sta=
tement/
Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statemen=
t-00
Htmlized:       =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-galis-netslices-revised-proble=
m-statement-00


Abstract:
  This document introduces Network Slicing problems and the motivation
  for new work areas. It represents an initial revision of the Network
  Slicing problem statement derived from the analysis of the technical
  gaps in IETF protocols ecosystem.  It complements and brings together
  the efforts being carried out in several other IETF working groups to
   achieve certain aspects of Network Slicing functions and operations.

Best Regards
Alex, on behalf of all the authors.


From nobody Sat Jun  3 11:06:30 2017
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From: Igor Bryskin <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com>
To: "comscape@gmail.com" <comscape@gmail.com>, "liang.geng@hotmail.com" <liang.geng@hotmail.com>, "sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org" <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>, "qiangli (D)" <qiangli3@huawei.com>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
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--_000_etPan5932fa68df270ba44e4localhost_
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Hi,

I think "3.3.1 Reclusiveness" should me replaced with "3.3.1 Recursiveness"=
 .

Cheers,
Igor
From:sebastian
To:'GENG Liang','sebastian.thalanany',qiangli (D),NetSlices@ietf.org,
Date:2017-06-02 22:50:04
Subject:Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

Hello, Liang,

Thanks for the reference draft.
The terminology with respect to the various aspects of a network slice and =
related abstractions, look good.

In several sections of the draft there are references to the term =91operat=
or=92, in different contexts.

A generalized distinction, in terms of NSP and SP would be relevant in the =
draft, from a forward-looking perspective, where domain owners may either j=
ust be an NSP or an SP, or an SP that also behaves as an NSP.
NSP : Network Service Provider (instead of =91operator=92): This entity onl=
y provides =91access=92 type of services
SP: Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the network la=
yer, but may also behave as an NSP

Happy to scrub the text, with tracked changes with generalized terminology =
that uses SP and NSP, instead of =91operator=92

Many thanks.
-Sebastian


From: GENG Liang [mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 3:59 PM
To: sebastian.thalanany <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>; 'qiangli (D)' <qian=
gli3@huawei.com>; NetSlices@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

Hi Sebastian,

We have defined term with similar generalization concernsin Architecture dr=
aft. All other rnetslices draft is referring to these terminologies. This d=
ocument can be find here
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01


Best wishes
Liang

________________________________
Liang GENG
China Mobile Research Institute

From: sebastian<mailto:comscape@gmail.com>
Date: 2017-06-02 21:30
To: 'qiangli \(D\)'<mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>; NetSlices@ietf.org<mailto:=
NetSlices@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
Dear Colleagues,

Thanks for delineating the prominent aspects of network slicing.

Here are some thoughts on terminology.

With the diverse nature of services in the 5G realm, where XaaS (Anything a=
s a Service) is an emerging paradigm, perhaps some of the legacy terminolog=
y may need to be generalized.
For example, the term =91operator=92 was typically used with reference to v=
arious types of =91access=92 modalities.

In NGMN, such terminology is being generalized.
NSP : Network Service Provider (instead of =91operator=92): This entity onl=
y provides =91access=92 type of services
SP: Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the network la=
yer, but may also behave as an NSP

Best wishes.
-Sebastian


From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of qiangli (D=
)
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 AM
To: NetSlices@ietf.org<mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>
Subject: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded


Dear All,



We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include_text=3D1

Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.



Abstract:

   This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for

   network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related

   work and other potential solutions on network slicing.



   This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in network slicing.

Best regards,

Co-authors


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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>Hi,<br>
<br>
I think &quot;3.3.1 Reclusiveness&quot; should me replaced with &quot;3.3.1=
 Recursiveness&quot; .<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Igor<br>
</div>
<div name=3D"AnyOffice-Background-Image" style=3D"border-top:1px solid #B5C=
4DF; font-size:14px; line-height:20px; padding:8px">
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>From:</b>sebastian</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>To:</b>'GENG Liang','sebastian.thala=
nany',qiangli (D),NetSlices@ietf.org,</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Date:</b>2017-06-02 22:50:04</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [Netslices] draft-qi=
ang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">Hello, Liang,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">Thanks for the reference draft.<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">The terminology with respect to =
the various aspects of a network slice and related abstractions, look good.=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">In several sections of the draft=
 there are references to the term =91operator=92, in different contexts.</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">A generalized distinction, in te=
rms of NSP and SP would be relevant in the draft, from a forward-looking pe=
rspective, where domain owners may either just
 be an NSP or an SP, or an SP that also behaves as an NSP.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">=
NSP</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3"> : Network Service Provider
 (instead of =91operator=92): This entity only provides =91access=92 type o=
f services</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">=
SP</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New R=
oman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">: Service Provider: This entity
 provides any service above the network layer, but may also behave as an NS=
P</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nb=
sp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">Hap=
py to scrub the text, with tracked changes with generalized terminology tha=
t uses SP and NSP, instead of =91operator=92</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nb=
sp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">Man=
y thanks.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">-Se=
bastian</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nbs=
p;</span></a></p>
<span style=3D""></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> GENG Liang [mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.c=
om] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 2, 2017 3:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> sebastian.thalanany &lt;sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org&gt;; 'qiang=
li (D)' &lt;qiangli3@huawei.com&gt;; NetSlices@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 U=
ploaded</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Hi Sebastian,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">We have defined term with similar gene=
ralization concernsin Architecture draft. All other rnetslices draft is ref=
erring to these terminologies. This document can
 be find here</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01"><span style=3D"background:white">htt=
ps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01</span></a>&nb=
sp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Best wishes</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Liang</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"473" noshade=3D"" align=3D"left" style=3D"width:157=
.5pt; color:#B5C4DF">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Liang GENG
</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">China Mobile Research Institute</span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-left:6.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:#EFEFEF"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">From:</=
span></b><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,san=
s-serif; color:black">&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:comscape@gmail.com">sebastian=
</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:#EFEFEF"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Date:</=
span></b><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,san=
s-serif; color:black">&nbsp;2017-06-02&nbsp;21:30</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:#EFEFEF"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">To:</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-=
serif; color:black">&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com">'qiangli
 \(D\)'</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:#EFEFEF"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Subject=
:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,=
sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-an=
alysis-00
 Uploaded</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">Dea=
r Colleagues,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">Tha=
nks for delineating the prominent aspects of network slicing.</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">Her=
e are some thoughts on terminology.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; =
color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">Wit=
h the diverse nature of services in the 5G realm, where XaaS (Anything as a=
 Service) is an emerging paradigm, perhaps some
 of the legacy terminology may need to be generalized.</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">For=
 example, the term =91operator=92 was typically used with reference to vari=
ous types of =91access=92 modalities.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">In =
NGMN, such terminology is being generalized.</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">=
NSP</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3"> : Network Service Provider
 (instead of =91operator=92): This entity only provides =91access=92 type o=
f services</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">=
SP</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New R=
oman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">: Service Provider: This entity
 provides any service above the network layer, but may also behave as an NS=
P</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">Bes=
t wishes.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">-Se=
bastian</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif; color:#3580E3">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><b><span style=3D"color=
:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"> Netslices [<a href=3D"=
mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>qiangli (D)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded<=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">Dea=
r All,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">We =
have upload &quot;Gap Analysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft 00 on
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analy=
sis/?include_text=3D1">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?includ=
e_text=3D1</a></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">You=
r comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">Abs=
tract:</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; This document presents network slicing differentiation from the n=
on-</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resour=
ces.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements fo=
r</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; network slicing.&nbsp; It also presents an analysis of existing r=
elated</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; work and other potential solutions on network slicing.</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future wor=
ks</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:black">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; in network slicing.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:=
black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:=
black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt; color:black">Best regards,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
 color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; color:=
black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt; color:black">Co-authors</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; co=
lor:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-siz=
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/99R0tcJlLNtfpF9S4M1r5938o6Q>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
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--Apple-Mail=_B940DC9B-69AE-4791-9981-FB43C0A83E1C
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	charset=utf-8

Hi Igor

Thank you for your careful reading of the gap analysis draft. It looks =
that an automatic =E2=80=98spell checker=E2=80=99 added a funny twist in =
the process =E2=80=A6.

Many =E2=80=9Crecursive" cheers

Alex
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 19:05, Igor Bryskin <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I think "3.3.1 Reclusiveness" should me replaced with "3.3.1 =
Recursiveness" .
>=20
> Cheers,
> Igor
> From:sebastian
> To:'GENG Liang','sebastian.thalanany',qiangli (D),NetSlices@ietf.org =
<mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>,
> Date:2017-06-02 22:50:04
> Subject:Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
>=20
> Hello, Liang,
> =20
> Thanks for the reference draft.
> The terminology with respect to the various aspects of a network slice =
and related abstractions, look good.
> =20
> In several sections of the draft there are references to the term =
=E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99, in different contexts.
> =20
> A generalized distinction, in terms of NSP and SP would be relevant in =
the draft, from a forward-looking perspective, where domain owners may =
either just be an NSP or an SP, or an SP that also behaves as an NSP.
> NSP : Network Service Provider (instead of =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99): =
This entity only provides =E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 type of services
> SP: Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the =
network layer, but may also behave as an NSP
> =20
> Happy to scrub the text, with tracked changes with generalized =
terminology that uses SP and NSP, instead of =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99
> =20
> Many thanks.
> -Sebastian
> =20
> =C2=A0 <>
> From: GENG Liang [mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com =
<mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com>]=20
> Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 3:59 PM
> To: sebastian.thalanany <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org =
<mailto:sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>>; 'qiangli (D)' =
<qiangli3@huawei.com <mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>>; NetSlices@ietf.org =
<mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 =
Uploaded
> =20
> Hi Sebastian,
> =20
> We have defined term with similar generalization concernsin =
Architecture draft. All other rnetslices draft is referring to these =
terminologies. This document can be find here
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01>=20
>=20
>=20
> Best wishes
> Liang
> =20
> Liang GENG
> China Mobile Research Institute
> =20
> From: sebastian <mailto:comscape@gmail.com>
> Date: 2017-06-02 21:30
> To: 'qiangli \(D\)' <mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>; NetSlices@ietf.org =
<mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 =
Uploaded
> Dear Colleagues,
> =20
> Thanks for delineating the prominent aspects of network slicing.
> =20
> Here are some thoughts on terminology.
> =20
> With the diverse nature of services in the 5G realm, where XaaS =
(Anything as a Service) is an emerging paradigm, perhaps some of the =
legacy terminology may need to be generalized.
> For example, the term =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99 was typically used =
with reference to various types of =E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 modalities.
> =20
> In NGMN, such terminology is being generalized.
> NSP : Network Service Provider (instead of =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99): =
This entity only provides =E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 type of services
> SP: Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the =
network layer, but may also behave as an NSP
> =20
> Best wishes.
> -Sebastian
> =20
> =20
> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of qiangli (D)
> Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 AM
> To: NetSlices@ietf.org <mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
> =20
> Dear All,
> =20
> We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?inclu=
de_text=3D1 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?incl=
ude_text=3D1>
> Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.
> =20
> Abstract:
>    This document presents network slicing differentiation from the =
non-
>    partition network or from simply partition of connectivity =
resources.
>    It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for
>    network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related
>    work and other potential solutions on network slicing.
> =20
>    This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works
>    in network slicing.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Co-authors
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>

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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Igor<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thank you for your careful reading of the gap analysis draft. =
It looks that an automatic =E2=80=98spell checker=E2=80=99 added a funny =
twist in the process =E2=80=A6.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Many =E2=80=9Crecursive" =
cheers</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Alex<br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
3 Jun 2017, at 19:05, Igor Bryskin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com" =
class=3D"">Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">Hi,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I think "3.3.1 Reclusiveness" should me replaced with "3.3.1 =
Recursiveness" .<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Cheers,<br =
class=3D"">Igor<br class=3D""></div><div =
name=3D"AnyOffice-Background-Image" style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; border-top-width: =
1px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; padding: 8px;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"word-break: break-all;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:</b>sebastian</div><div style=3D"word-break: break-all;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b>'GENG =
Liang','sebastian.thalanany',qiangli (D),<a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">NetSlices@ietf.org</a>,</div><div =
style=3D"word-break: break-all;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Date:</b>2017-06-02 22:50:04</div><div style=3D"word-break: =
break-all;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b>Re: [Netslices] =
draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">Hello, Liang,</span></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">Thanks for the reference =
draft.</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">The terminology with respect to the =
various aspects of a network slice and related abstractions, look =
good.</span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">In several sections =
of the draft there are references to the term =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99, =
in different contexts.</span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">A generalized distinction, in terms of NSP and SP would be =
relevant in the draft, from a forward-looking perspective, where domain =
owners may either just be an NSP or an SP, or an SP that also behaves as =
an NSP.</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">NSP</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>: Network Service Provider =
(instead of =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99): This entity only provides =
=E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 type of services</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">SP</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">: =
Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the network =
layer, but may also behave as an NSP</span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">Happy to scrub the =
text, with tracked changes with generalized terminology that uses SP and =
NSP, instead of =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99</span></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-align: justify;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">Many thanks.</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: =
justify;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">-Sebastian</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></a></div><span =
class=3D""></span><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>GENG Liang [<a =
href=3D"mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, June 2, 2017 3:59 =
PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>sebastian.thalanany &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org</a>&gt;; 'qiangli (D)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">qiangli3@huawei.com</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: Re: [Netslices] =
draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded</div></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</p><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi =
Sebastian,</span></div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">We have defined =
term with similar generalization concernsin Architecture draft. All =
other rnetslices draft is referring to these terminologies. This =
document can be find here</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-0=
1</span></a>&nbsp;</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Best wishes</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Liang</span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><hr size=3D"2" width=3D"473" noshade=3D"" =
align=3D"left" style=3D"width: 157.5pt; color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" =
class=3D""></span></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Liang GENG</span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">China Mobile Research =
Institute</span></div></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-left: =
6pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div><div style=3D"border-style:=
 solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; background-color: =
rgb(239, 239, 239);" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
9pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:comscape@gmail.com" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">sebastian</a></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(239, 239, 239);" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Date:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;2017-06-02&nbsp;21:30</span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(239, 239, 239);" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">To:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
9pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">'qiangli \(D\)'</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">NetSlices@ietf.org</a></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(239, 239, 239);" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Subject:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
9pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;Re: [Netslices] =
draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 =
Uploaded</span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">Dear Colleagues,</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">Thanks for =
delineating the prominent aspects of network slicing.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">Here are some =
thoughts on terminology.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: =
justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-align: justify;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">With the diverse nature of services in the 5G realm, where =
XaaS (Anything as a Service) is an emerging paradigm, perhaps some of =
the legacy terminology may need to be generalized.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-align: justify;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">For example, the term =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99 was =
typically used with reference to various types of =E2=80=98access=E2=80=99=
 modalities.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: =
justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-align: justify;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">In NGMN, such terminology is being generalized.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-align: justify;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">NSP</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>: Network Service Provider =
(instead of =E2=80=98operator=E2=80=99): This entity only provides =
=E2=80=98access=E2=80=99 type of services</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">SP</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">: =
Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the network =
layer, but may also behave as an NSP</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">Best =
wishes.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">-Sebastian</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: =
justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(53, 128, 227);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></p><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid =
none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: =
justify;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"" =
class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Netslices [<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>qiangli (D)<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 =
AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[Netslices] =
draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">Dear All,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">We have upload =
"Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysi=
s/?include_text=3D1" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-anal=
ysis/?include_text=3D1</a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">Your comments and reviews are =
greatly appreciated.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">Abstract:</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document =
presents network slicing differentiation from the non-</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
partition network or from simply partition of connectivity =
resources.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; It lists 15 =
standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
network slicing.&nbsp; It also presents an analysis of existing =
related</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; work and other =
potential solutions on network slicing.</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoPlainText" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; This gap analysis =
document aims to provide a basis for future works</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; in =
network slicing.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: =
justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-align: justify;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">Best regards,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: =
justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""></span></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-align: justify;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">Co-authors</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: =
justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><span =
style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
ArialMT; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Netslices mailing =
list</span><br style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br =
style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: ArialMT; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a></div></bloc=
kquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/RApkoqhStPY_4Buek4RPTR5T0rg>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] NetSlicing BoF Request for IETF99 & 4 NetSlicing drafts/ Kind request for review/comments/further contributions
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=3D=3D=3D IETF Operations and Management =3D=3D=3D=0D
Network Slicing (NETSLICING)
=0D
Status: WG Forming Request
=0D
Scope:=0D
=A5  	NETSLICING Session is intended as a WG forming BoF.=0D
=A5 	Opportunity to hear operators, manufacturers/vendors, verticals, =
and other players=D5 viewpoints in operating Network Slicing aware =
infrastructure in current multi-domain access, core, edge, and transport =
networks.=0D
=A5 	Review progress so far in Network Slicing work at IETF.=0D
=A5 	Discuss if there is enough interest and agreement on what =
activities to pursue within IETF.=0D

BoF Description:=0D

A Network Slice represents a logical network and it is a union of =
subsets of resources  (connectivity, storage, computing), plus (virtual) =
network functions, plus service functions at the data & control & =
management planes at a given time, that are combined together to provide =
a logical networking infrastructure in support of a variety of services.=20=

=0D
Network slicing enables the creation of multiple, parallel networks of =
different features by flexible isolation of allocated to a slice network =
resources and network functions and providing high level of =
customization and quality guarantee.
=0D
Network slicing is an approach of flexible isolation and allocation of =
network resources and network functions for a network instance, =
providing high level of customization and quality guarantee.=20
=0D
Network Slices transform the networking perspective by abstracting, =
isolating, orchestrating, softwarizing, and separating logical network =
components from the underlying physical network thereby supporting the =
introduction of new network architectures and new service delivery.=0D

The purpose of the Network Slicing work in IETF is to develop a set of =
protocols and/ or protocol extensions that enable the following =
operations on slices: efficient creation, activation / deactivation, =
composition, elasticity, coordination / orchestration, management, =
isolation, guaranteed SLA, OAM/Feedback mechanisms and safe and secure =
operations within a network environment that assumes an IP and/or =
MPLS-based underlay.=0D

While there are isolated efforts being carried out in several IETF =
working groups (TEAS WG, ANIMA WG, DETNET WG, SFC WG, NETCONF WG, SUPA =
WG, NVO3 WG, DMM WG, RTGWG) to achieve key aspects and characteristics =
of network slice functions and operations, there is a clear need to have =
a full overview and look at the complete life-cycle management =
characteristics of Network Slicing solutions though the discussions =
based on the following architectural tenets:
=0D
=A5 Underlay tenet: support for an IP/MPLS-based underlay data plane =0D
=A5 Governance tenet: a logically centralized authority for network =
slices in a domain.=0D
=A5 Separation tenet: slices may be virtually or physically independent =
of each other and have a high degree of isolation from each other.=0D
=A5 Capability exposure tenet: each slice allows third parties to access =
via dedicated protocols and /or APIs and /or programming methods =
information regarding services provided by the slice (e.g., connectivity =
information, mobility, autonomicity, etc.) within the limits set by the =
operator or the slice owner.=0D

The scope of the proposed work focuses on Network Slicing approaches =
that adhere to these tenets.=0D

A number key value added characteristics of Network Slicing and its =
usage are identified in the Problem Statement draft =
(draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-03) as differentiation =
from the non-partition network or from simply partitions of connectivity =
resources (e.g. VPNs)/ Virtual Networks / Other abstractions of the data =
traffic layer. =0D

The proposed Network Slicing work will be coordinated with other IETF =
WGs to ensure that the commonalities and differences in solutions are =
properly considered. Where suitable protocols, models, or methods exist, =
they will be preferred over creating new ones. =0D


Problem Space: The goal of this proposed work is to develop one or more =
protocol specifications (or extensions to existing protocols) to address =
specific slicing problems that are not met by the existing tool set. =
Twenty distinct problems have been identified (in =
draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-03) which are grouped as =
follows: Global Issues, Network Slice Capabilities, and Network Slice =
Operations. Each problem has an attached priority level [i.e. high (8), =
medium (6) and low level (6)]. The proposed WG charter would include at =
least the high priority problems.=0D

A number of solutions to the identified problems would need to be =
developed to resolved the identified IETF gaps (see =
draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00) grouped as follows: Network =
Slicing Resource Specification, Cross-Network Segment & Cross-Domain =
Negotiation, Guaranteed Performance and Isolation, Network =
Slicing-Domain Abstraction, Slice Identification, OAM Operation with =
Customized Granularity.=0D


BoF Agenda:=0D
I. Introduction [5 minutes]=0D
II. 4 Network Slicing drafts presentations [4*(10 minutes + 5 minutes =
Q&A)]=0D
    =A5=CANetwork Slicing Problem Statement =D0 Alex Galis =D0 =
University College London=0D
    =A5  Network Slicing Architecture - Liang Geng =D0 China Mobile=0D
    =A5=CA Network Slicing Use Cases =D0 Kiran Makhijani - Huawei=0D
    =A5=CA Network Slicing Gap Analysis - Li Qiang - Huawei=0D
III. 1 Network Slicing complementary presentation + 4 Reserved =
presentation  [1*(10 minutes + 5 minutes Q&A)]=0D
    =A5=CAHow to slice Network Slicing for the IETF - Hannu Flinck =D0 =
Nokia=0D
    =A5  (reserve) What is /is not Network Slicing - G. Grammel =D0 =
Juniper, Daniele Ceccarelli - Ericsson=0D
    =A5=CA (reserve) Network Slicing in 3GPP - Xavier Defoy  =D0  Inter =
Digital =0D
    =A5=CA (reserve) Network Slicing usage in Operator Network =D0 =
Slawomir Kuklinski =D0 Orange=0D
    =A5=CA(reserve) Impact of NS Multiple Viewpoints and Functional =
Roles - Pedro Martinez-Julia =D0 NICT Japan=0D
IV. Concluding remarks & proposed charter with priorities [10 minutes]=0D=

V. Open Discussion [60 minutes]=0D

Length of session: 2 1/2 hours=0D

CONFLICTS you wish to avoid, please be as specific as possible: BOF =
session should avoid the TEAS WG, ANIMA WG, DETNET WG, SFC WG, NETCONF =
WG, SUPA WG, NVO3 WG, DMM WG, RTGWG, Plenary and  other BoF sessions. It =
is proposed that the Network Slicing BoF be held on Monday 17th July =
2017 at 18:15 - 20:45=0D


Responsible AD: Terry Manderson <terry.manderson@icann.org>=0D


NETSLICING BoF Proponents in alphabetical order:  Mohamed Boucadair =
<mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, Stewart Bryant =
<stewart.bryant@gmail.com>,  Carlos Jes=9Cs Bernardos Cano =
<cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, Taesang Choi <choits@etri.re.kr>, Daniele Ceccarelli  =
<daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, Jie Dongjie (Jimmy) =
<jie.dong@huawei.com>,  Hannu Flinck  =
<hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-labs.com>,  Xavier De Foy =
<Xavier.DeFoy@InterDigital.com>,  Alex Galis <a.galis@ucl.ac.uk>, Liang =
Geng <gengliang@chinamobile.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>,  =
Christian Jacquenet <christian.jacquenet@orange.com>, Sheng Jiang =
<jiangsheng@huawei.com>, Pedro Martinez-Julia <pedro@nict.go.jp>, =
Slawomir Kuklinski  <slawomir.kuklinski@orange.com>,  Satoru Matsushima =
<satoru.matsushima@gmail.com>, Kiran  Makhijani =
<Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com>, Luis Miguel Contreras Murillo =
<luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>, Cristina Qiang  =
<qiangli3@huawei.com>,  Ravi Ravindran <ravi.ravindran@huawei.com>,  =
Akbar Rahman, <Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com>, Peng Shuping =
<pengshuping@huawei.com>,  Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith@vodafone.com>,  Peng =
Shuping <pengshuping@huawei.com>, Nurit Sprecher  =
<nurit.sprecher@nokia.com>=0D


Proposed Chair(s) Name(s) and e-mail address(es): Alex Galis =
<a.galis@ucl.ac.uk>, Liang Geng < gengliang@chinamobile.com>=0D


Expected Attendance: 150=0D


Previous work and meetings:

(1) Network Slicing drafts:=0D
 =A5  Network Slicing Revised Problem Statement =
<draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-00> 02-06-2017=0D
 =A5  Network Slicing Architecture =
<draft-geng-netslices-architecture-02> 02-06-05-2017=0D
 =A5  Gap Analysis for Network Slicing =
<draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00> 02-06-05-2017=0D
 =A5 Network Slicing Use Cases: Network Customization and Differentiated =
Services  <draft-makhijani-netslices-usecase-customization-02> =
02-06-2017=0D

(2) Side Meetings / Workshops [15 presentations at 2 side meetings]=0D
 =A5  NETSLICING workshop No. 1 at IETF97 - 5 presentations - approx 100 =
participants =0D
 =A5  NETSLICING Workshop No. 2 at IETF 98 - 12 presentations - approx =
120 participants=0D

(3) Document Repository at https://github.com/netslices/IETF-NetSlices=0D=


(4) NETSLICING  Mailing list: 191 members + 271 emails (13th Jan 2017 =D0 =
2nd June 2017) =0D

(5) A group of 20 volunteers was set-up and acted in the period April - =
May 2017 to progress, coordinate and synchronise the NS drafts in =
support of the WG forming BoF planned at IETF99.=0D

--Apple-Mail=_36D02A82-05D4-48E0-964B-15A268EA1729
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	charset=us-ascii




4th June 2017


Hi All

The proponents of the NetSlicing have requested a BoF at IETF99 (16-21 =
July 2017; Prague) as enclosed.

In addition 4 syncronised network slicing drafts in support for the =
above mentioned BoF have been posted to the IETF repository on 2nd June =
2017.


We are kindly requesting review/comments/further contributions from the =
mailing list on all 4 drafts + BoF  which are planed for updates at the =
end on June 2017.

Thank you in advance

Best Regards

Alex and BoF proponents and all authors of the 4 network slicing drafts




N.B.  4 recent Network Slicing Drafts

1. Name:	draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement (i.e. it =
replaces draft-gdmb-netslices-intro-and-ps-02.txt)=20

Revision:	00 Title:	Network Slicing - Revised Problem =
Statement Document date:	2017-06-02 Pages:	26=20

Abstract: This document introduces Network Slicing problems and the =
motivation for new work areas. It represents an initial revision of the =
Network Slicing problem statement derived from the analysis of the =
technical gaps in IETF protocols ecosystem. It complements and brings =
together the efforts being carried out in several other IETF working =
groups to achieve certain aspects of Network Slicing functions and =
operations. Best Regards Alex, on behalf of all the authors.

2. Name: draft-geng-netslices-architecture
Revision: 01; Title: Network Slicing Architecture; Document date: =
2017-06-02; Pages: 27
URL:            =
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-geng-netslices-architecture-01.=
txt=20

Abstract: This document defines the overall architecture of network =
slicing. Based on the general architecture, basic concepts of network =
slicing and examples of network slicing instances are introduced for =
clarification purposes.  Some architectural considerations about the =
data plane, control plane, management and orchestration of network =
slicing are described to give a general view of network slicing =
implementation principles.

3. Name:		draft-netslices-usecases
Revision: 01; Title:		Network Slicing Use Cases: Network =
Customization and Differentiated Services; Pages:45

URL:            =
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-netslices-usecases-00.txt
=20
Abstract:Network Slicing is meant to enable creating (end-to-end) =
partitioned network infrastructure which may include the user equipment, =
access/ core transport networks, edge and central data center resources =
to provide differentiated connectivity behaviors to fulfill the =
requirements of distinct services, applications and customers.  In this =
context, connectivity is not restricted to differentiated forwarding =
capabilities but it covers also advanced service functions that will be =
invoked when transferring data within a given domain.
The purpose of this document is to focus on use cases that benef from =
the usefulness of network slicing.

4. Name: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis
Revision: 00; Title: Gap Analysis for Network Slicing; Pages: 29
URL:            =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?inclu=
de_text=3D1

Abstract: This document presents network slicing differentiation from =
the non- partition network or from simply partition of connectivity =
resources. It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key =
requirements for network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of =
existing related  work and other potential solutions on network slicing.
This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works  in =
network slicing.





--Apple-Mail=_36D02A82-05D4-48E0-964B-15A268EA1729--


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To: "sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org" <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
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Hi Sebastian,

Good point. As we stated in Sec. 2, all of the network slicing related term=
inology used in the gap-analysis doc. have been defined in draft-geng-netsl=
ices-architecture-01.

Best regards,

Cristina QIANG

From: sebastian [mailto:comscape@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 9:30 PM
To: qiangli (D); NetSlices@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

Dear Colleagues,

Thanks for delineating the prominent aspects of network slicing.

Here are some thoughts on terminology.

With the diverse nature of services in the 5G realm, where XaaS (Anything a=
s a Service) is an emerging paradigm, perhaps some of the legacy terminolog=
y may need to be generalized.
For example, the term 'operator' was typically used with reference to vario=
us types of 'access' modalities.

In NGMN, such terminology is being generalized.
NSP : Network Service Provider (instead of 'operator'): This entity only pr=
ovides 'access' type of services
SP: Service Provider: This entity provides any service above the network la=
yer, but may also behave as an NSP

Best wishes.
-Sebastian


From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of qiangli (D=
)
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 AM
To: NetSlices@ietf.org<mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>
Subject: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded


Dear All,



We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include_text=3D1

Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.



Abstract:

   This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for

   network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related

   work and other potential solutions on network slicing.



   This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in network slicing.

Best regards,

Co-authors


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Seba=
stian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Good po=
int. As we stated in Sec. 2, all of the network slicing related terminology=
 used in the gap-analysis doc. have been defined in draft-geng-netslices-ar=
chitecture-01.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Best re=
gards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cristin=
a QIANG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sebastian [m=
ailto:comscape@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 02, 2017 9:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> qiangli (D); NetSlices@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploa=
ded<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">Dear Co=
lleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">Thanks =
for delineating the prominent aspects of network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">Here ar=
e some thoughts on terminology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">With th=
e diverse nature of services in the 5G realm, where XaaS (Anything as a Ser=
vice) is an emerging paradigm, perhaps some of the legacy
 terminology may need to be generalized.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">For exa=
mple, the term &#8216;operator&#8217; was typically used with reference to =
various types of &#8216;access&#8217; modalities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">In NGMN=
, such terminology is being generalized.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">NSP<=
/span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3"> : Network Service P=
rovider
 (instead of &#8216;operator&#8217;): This entity only provides &#8216;acce=
ss&#8217; type of services<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">SP</=
span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">: Service Provider: T=
his entity
 provides any service above the network layer, but may also behave as an NS=
P<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">Best wi=
shes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3">-Sebast=
ian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#3580E3"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;;color:#3580E3"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Netslices [<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounce=
s@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>qiangli (D)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 2, 2017 4:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We have upload &quot;Gap Ana=
lysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft 00 on
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analy=
sis/?include_text=3D1">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?includ=
e_text=3D1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your comments and reviews ar=
e greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document p=
resents network slicing differentiation from the non-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; partition netwo=
rk or from simply partition of connectivity resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; It lists 15 sta=
ndardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; network slicing=
.&nbsp; It also presents an analysis of existing related<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; work and other =
potential solutions on network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This gap analys=
is document aims to provide a basis for future works<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; in network slic=
ing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Co-authors<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED29BB642ESZXEMI507MBSchi_--


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From: "qiangli (D)" <qiangli3@huawei.com>
To: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
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Hi Henk,

Thank you for your comments, please see my reply inline marked as [Cr].

Best regards,

Cristina QIANG

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Henk Birkh=
olz
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 10:21 PM
To: netslices@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

Hello,

I have just skimmed the first part of the document.

1.) If you pull in terms defined in other drafts or (proposed) standards, p=
lease include the references. (random example: MDSC is defined in I.D-ietf-=
teas-actn-framework, I think).

If it is not getting too big and if it is vital to grasp the context of the=
 draft, I would suggest to pull in the complete definition (and still refer=
ence the source, of course).

[Cr] will do in the next version.

2.) Some terms I can only guess what they mean in this context, examples in=
clude terminal, guarantee, or the scope of the expression "individual parts=
 and pieces of the overall system", which is probably something like every =
system entity or subsystem that is required to provide the capabilities of =
a differentiable network slice?

[Cr] I think the term "(network slice) terminal" has been defined in draft-=
geng-netslices-architecture-01. We will use more explicit expression and de=
fine necessary terms later.=20

3.) In general, I like section 4.1 very much. It enables a good understandi=
ng of what are important characteristics of a network slice that are potent=
ial KPI.

4.) I would like to see an explicit differentiation and definition of the t=
erms action, task, procedure (and maybe even a "middle-layer" term between =
action and procedure called activity - a building block of actions that can=
 compose procedures). The terms mentioned above imply a specialization (and=
 there for a some sort of taxonomy) that can be used to map actual running =
solutions and actions that can be performed by them - to more general proce=
dures that are required to create a network slice on an architectural level=
.

[Cr] same reply as above.

5.) I like the Topology Hierarchy (Stack) in Figure 2, but I am not sure if=
 the expressiveness of, e.g. draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology
satisfies the requirements of network slicing. For example, top-of-the rack=
 data plane units, which physical ports are mapped to multiple redundant en=
dpoints that maintain a partially merged control plane (to handle the redun=
dant mapping) but are separate information systems on the management plane =
cannot be modeled, I think. This is just one of the more complex examples t=
hat fall under the scope of resilience (see below).

6.) In general, the topic Guaranteed Slice Performance and Isolation does n=
ot seem to address availability or resilience of a or inside a network slic=
e. Is that out of scope? That is why I would like a better understanding of=
 what can be "guaranteed" in general (see item 2. above).

[Cr] a network slice could be simply regarded as a logical network resource=
/function union that owned by a tenant. To a certain extent, how to manage =
and use this resource (including how to achieve the availability or resilie=
nce inside a network slice) is the tenant's business, that is out of the sc=
ope of this topic. As table 1 illustrated, the guaranteed slice performance=
 and isolation topic aims to discuss that the isolation among different net=
work slices is quite necessary for guaranteeing the performance, security, =
operation, reliability, etc.=20

7.) I find the title 7.3. Abstraction of Network in Network confusing after=
 reading the content of that section.

[Cr] The subsection 7.3 mainly discusses the abstraction of a network slice=
 that across multiple domains. What do you think of the title "multi-domain=
 abstraction"? Or do you have any good suggestions?

This was just a quick first pass. In general, this is an excellent=20
contribution and really focuses an essential part of the ongoing=20
activities! Thank you!


Viele Gr=FC=DFe,

Henk








On 06/02/2017 11:36 AM, qiangli (D) wrote:
> Dear All,
>=20
> We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?incl=
ude_text=3D1
>=20
> Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.
>=20
> Abstract:
>=20
>     This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-
>=20
>     partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.
>=20
>     It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for
>=20
>     network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related
>=20
>     work and other potential solutions on network slicing.
>=20
>     This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works
>=20
>     in network slicing.
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> Co-authors
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>=20

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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From: "qinjun (G)" <qinjun4@huawei.com>
To: "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
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Hi, Cristina:

Thanks for your contribution work. The draft could be a good reference and =
basis for the network slicing related work.

After reading the whole draft, I am wondering about the difference between =
 VN in ACTN and network slicing, and  still a little confused about the mea=
ning of "ACTN is path-oriented (i.e., TE tunnel based), whilst network slic=
ing is resource-oriented." Which mentioned in the third paragraph in sectio=
n 5.2.2.  What is the exact meaning of "path-oriented" and "resource-orient=
ed"? In my understanding, in VN of ACTN, there's no explicit limitation tha=
t it cannot control the network resources, by using suitable technology, I =
think the "path" can be combined with the underlay resources.  About figure=
 4, in network slicing environment, if LSP1 and 2 belongs to two  slices, a=
lthough the whole bandwidth on path C-D has no change, but the bandwidth of=
 each slice changed, I think it still need reconfiguration.

Best regards
Jun Qin


From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of qiangli (D=
)
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 5:36 PM
To: NetSlices@ietf.org
Subject: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded


Dear All,



We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include_text=3D1

Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.



Abstract:

   This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for

   network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related

   work and other potential solutions on network slicing.



   This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in network slicing.

Best regards,

Co-authors


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">Hi, Cristina:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">Thanks for your contribution work. The draft could be a good refe=
rence and basis for the network slicing related work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Afte=
r reading the whole draft, I am wondering about the difference between &nbs=
p;VN in ACTN and network slicing, and &nbsp;still a
 little confused about the meaning of &#8220;ACTN is path-oriented (i.e., T=
E tunnel based), whilst network slicing is resource-oriented.&#8221; Which =
mentioned in the third paragraph in section 5.2.2. &nbsp;What is the exact =
meaning of &#8220;path-oriented&#8221; and &#8220;resource-oriented&#8221;?
 In my understanding, in VN of ACTN, there&#8217;s no explicit limitation t=
hat it cannot control the network resources, by using suitable technology, =
I think the &#8220;path&#8221; can be combined with the underlay resources.=
 &nbsp;About figure 4, in network slicing environment,
 if LSP1 and 2 belongs to two&nbsp; slices, although the whole bandwidth on=
 path C-D has no change, but the bandwidth of each slice changed, I think i=
t still need reconfiguration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Best=
 regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Jun =
Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
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0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Netslices [m=
ailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>qiangli (D)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 02, 2017 5:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NetSlices@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We have upload &quot;Gap Ana=
lysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft 00 on
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analy=
sis/?include_text=3D1">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?includ=
e_text=3D1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your comments and reviews ar=
e greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document p=
resents network slicing differentiation from the non-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; partition netwo=
rk or from simply partition of connectivity resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; It lists 15 sta=
ndardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; network slicing=
.&nbsp; It also presents an analysis of existing related<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; work and other =
potential solutions on network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This gap analys=
is document aims to provide a basis for future works<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; in network slic=
ing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Co-authors<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Hi Med,

Thank you very much for your comment, I will try to reply you inline.

Best regards,

Cristina QIANG

From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 9:59 PM
To: qiangli (D); NetSlices@ietf.org
Subject: RE: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

Hi Cristina,

Thank you for sharing the draft. Please find below some comments, fwiw:

(1) Section 4.2.1 mentions the following:


"the [SLA-Exchange<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-an=
alysis-00#ref-SLA-Exchange>] can be used to
   negotiate the SLAs and report on SLA events.  Further analysis is
   needed to provide a complete package.
"


Actually, this is not possible with [SLA-Exchange] given that document says=
 explicitly: "The SLA negotiation and assurance is outside the scope of thi=
s document."

[Cr] [SLA-Exchange](i.e., draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-10.txt) provides an i=
n-band method to exchange the SLA parameters, and then by the receiving dev=
ices to translate SLA in technical specific provisioning languages. Our sta=
tement is indeed not accurate enough, [SLA-Exchange] could be a potential s=
olution that INDIRECTLY implements the SLA negotiation IMHO. But also as th=
is draft says "There does not exist any standard protocol to translate SLA =
agreements into technical clauses and configurations", this is a technical =
gap we are facing now.

(2) Section 4.2.2. says the following:


   The NSRS requirement for reachability, direction, bandwidth

   requirements, performance metrics, traffic isolation constraints, and

   flow identification can be built utilizing protocol which can perform

   operations (read, write, notification, actions (aka rpcs)) on a yang

   service layer that supports these traffic engineer and resource

   definition at the service layers.  The network slicing service data

   model can extend existing work in the TEAS and I2RS working group for

   protocol-independent topology models.  These models support

   configuration or the dynamic datastores defined in [NMDA<https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00#ref-NMDA>] which will

   be abbreviated as NMDA in this section.  This section provides the

   detail on how the NSRS can be built from these models and the

   RESTCONF protocol.

I'm a little bit puzzled here given that the NSRS is not about interacting =
with underlying network nodes. Especially, I'm not sure to understand the d=
iscussion about "protocol which can perform operations (read, write, notifi=
cation, actions (aka rpcs))" in this context.


(3) Table 2:



=B7         Putting aside what is meant by "NS state monitoring", is there =
any particular reason "Mechanism/protocols for NS state monitoring;" is lis=
ted under NSRS? This is IMHO more an OAM issue.


[Cr] monitoring state (i.e. including monitoring of the resource  network f=
unctions usage) would require explicit probes dynamically configure and set=
 up based on new mechanism. At such monitoring state and its configuration =
is a special and key part of the capability exposure. IMHO such monitoring =
is a key features which is currently not available - it is a gap.


=B7         Item "8) Mechanisms for on-demand, isolated, elastic and effici=
ent network slice instantiation and resource association" is mysterious. I =
failed to find where that item is discussed in Section 6.



[Cr] The second paragraph of Sec. 6.1 simply discusses this point. The rele=
vant discussion could be enhanced in next version.



=B7         I'm not sure to understand what is meant by "10) Mechanisms for=
 customized network slices".

=B7         Items 12 and 13 are not related to NS identification. Further, =
those are not discussed in the corresponding section.



[Cr] Item 12, NS identification is essential for determining/discovering th=
e corresponding network slice for coming flows, OAM operations, etc. ; Item=
 13, the E2E repository for NS includes the mechanisms for name of NS trans=
lations when needed.  The relevant discussion will be enhanced in next vers=
ion.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Med

De : Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de qiangli (D=
)
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 2 juin 2017 11:36
=C0 : NetSlices@ietf.org<mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>
Objet : [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded


Dear All,



We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include_text=3D1

Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.



Abstract:

   This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for

   network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related

   work and other potential solutions on network slicing.



   This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in network slicing.

Best regards,

Co-authors


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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-t=
rim:punctuation">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Med,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thank y=
ou very much for your comment, I will try to reply you inline.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Best re=
gards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cristin=
a QIANG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> mohamed.bouc=
adair@orange.com
 [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 02, 2017 9:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> qiangli (D); NetSlices@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Cristina,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Thank you for sharing the draft=
. Please find below some comments, fwiw:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">(1) Section 4.2.1 mentions the =
following:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">the [</span><span lang=3D"FR"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/htm=
l/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00#ref-SLA-Exchange"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US">SLA-Exchange</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">] can be used to<o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; negotiate the SLAs and report on SLA events.&nbsp; Further anal=
ysis is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; needed to provide a complete package.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F=
497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Actually, this is not possi=
ble with [SLA-Exchange] given that document says explicitly: &#8220;</span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The SLA negotiation and assurance is outside the scope=
 of this document.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Cr] [S=
LA-Exchange](i.e., draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-10.txt) provides an in-band =
method to exchange the SLA parameters, and then by the receiving devices to=
 translate SLA in technical specific provisioning
 languages. Our statement is indeed not accurate enough, [SLA-Exchange] cou=
ld be a potential solution that INDIRECTLY implements the SLA negotiation I=
MHO. But also as this draft says &#8220;There does not exist any standard p=
rotocol to translate SLA agreements into
 technical clauses and configurations&#8221;, this is a technical gap we ar=
e facing now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">(2) Section 4.2.2. says the fol=
lowing:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; The NSRS requirement for reachabilit=
y, direction, bandwidth<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; requirements, performance metrics, t=
raffic isolation constraints, and<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; flow identification can be built uti=
lizing protocol which can perform<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; operations (read, write, notificatio=
n, actions (aka rpcs)) on a yang<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; service layer that supports these tr=
affic engineer and resource<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; definition at the service layers.&nb=
sp; The network slicing service data<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; model can extend existing work in th=
e TEAS and I2RS working group for<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol-independent topology models=
.&nbsp; These models support<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; configuration or the dynamic datasto=
res defined in [</span><span lang=3D"FR"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/=
html/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00#ref-NMDA" title=3D"&quot;Network=
 Management Datastore Architecture&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">NMDA</span><=
/a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">] which will<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; be abbreviated as NMDA in this secti=
on.&nbsp; This section provides the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; detail on how the NSRS can be built =
from these models and the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3D"FR">RESTCONF pr=
otocol.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">I&#8217;m a little bit puzzled =
here given that the NSRS is not about interacting with underlying network n=
odes. Especially, I&#8217;m not sure to understand the discussion
 about &#8220;protocol which can perform operations (read, write, notificat=
ion, actions (aka rpcs))&#8221; in this context.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">(3) Table 2:<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Symbol;co=
lor:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">P=
utting aside what is meant by &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">NS state m=
onitoring<span style=3D"color:black">&#8220;, is there any particular reaso=
n &#8220;</span>Mechanism/protocols for NS state monitoring;&#8221; is list=
ed under NSRS? This is IMHO more an OAM issue. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pr=
e>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Cr] mo=
nitoring state (i.e. including monitoring of the resource&nbsp; network fun=
ctions usage) would require explicit probes dynamically configure and set u=
p based on new mechanism. At such monitoring
 state and its configuration is a special and key part of the capability ex=
posure. IMHO such monitoring is a key features which is currently not avail=
able - it is a gap.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Symbol;co=
lor:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Item &#8220;8) Mechanis=
ms for on-demand, isolated, elastic and efficient network slice instantiati=
on and resource association&#8221; is mysterious. I failed to find where th=
at item is discussed in Section 6.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Cr] The second paragraph of=
 Sec. 6.1 simply discusses this point. </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The =
relevant discussion could be enhanced in next version.</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Symbol;co=
lor:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#8217;m not sure to u=
nderstand what is meant by &#8220;10) Mechanisms for customized network sli=
ces&#8221;. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Symbol;co=
lor:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Items 12 and 13 are not=
 related to NS identification. Further, those are not discussed in the corr=
esponding section. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></i></b></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Cr]=
 Item 12, NS identification is essential for determining/discovering the co=
rresponding network slice for coming flows, OAM operations, etc. ; Item 13,=
 the E2E repository for NS includes the
 mechanisms for name of NS translations when needed.&nbsp; The relevant dis=
cussion will be enhanced in next version.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Netslice=
s [<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@i=
etf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> qiangli (D)<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;</b></span><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">:</span></b><span la=
ng=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;"> vendredi 2 juin 2017 11:36<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploa=
ded<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We have upload &quot;Gap Ana=
lysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft 00 on
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analy=
sis/?include_text=3D1">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?includ=
e_text=3D1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your comments and reviews ar=
e greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document p=
resents network slicing differentiation from the non-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; partition netwo=
rk or from simply partition of connectivity resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; It lists 15 sta=
ndardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; network slicing=
.&nbsp; It also presents an analysis of existing related<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; work and other =
potential solutions on network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This gap analys=
is document aims to provide a basis for future works<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; in network slic=
ing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Co-authors<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: "qiangli (D)" <qiangli3@huawei.com>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
CC: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, 'Alex Galis' <a.galis@ucl.ac.uk>
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Hi Cristina,

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

De : qiangli (D) [mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com]
Envoy=E9 : mardi 6 juin 2017 08:49
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; NetSlices@ietf.org
Cc : Susan Hares; 'Alex Galis'
Objet : RE: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

Hi Med,

Thank you very much for your comment, I will try to reply you inline.

Best regards,

Cristina QIANG

From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> [ma=
ilto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 9:59 PM
To: qiangli (D); NetSlices@ietf.org<mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded

Hi Cristina,

Thank you for sharing the draft. Please find below some comments, fwiw:

(1) Section 4.2.1 mentions the following:


"the [SLA-Exchange<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-an=
alysis-00#ref-SLA-Exchange>] can be used to
   negotiate the SLAs and report on SLA events.  Further analysis is
   needed to provide a complete package.
"


Actually, this is not possible with [SLA-Exchange] given that document says=
 explicitly: "The SLA negotiation and assurance is outside the scope of thi=
s document."

[Cr] [SLA-Exchange](i.e., draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-10.txt) provides an i=
n-band method to exchange the SLA parameters, and then by the receiving dev=
ices to translate SLA in technical specific provisioning languages. Our sta=
tement is indeed not accurate enough, [SLA-Exchange] could be a potential s=
olution that INDIRECTLY implements the SLA negotiation IMHO. But also as th=
is draft says "There does not exist any standard protocol to translate SLA =
agreements into technical clauses and configurations", this is a technical =
gap we are facing now.

[Med] Yes, the problem addressed in draft-ietf-idr-sla is worth to be solve=
d... but it is a distinct one vs. negotiation/NSRS.


(2) Section 4.2.2. says the following:


   The NSRS requirement for reachability, direction, bandwidth

   requirements, performance metrics, traffic isolation constraints, and

   flow identification can be built utilizing protocol which can perform

   operations (read, write, notification, actions (aka rpcs)) on a yang

   service layer that supports these traffic engineer and resource

   definition at the service layers.  The network slicing service data

   model can extend existing work in the TEAS and I2RS working group for

   protocol-independent topology models.  These models support

   configuration or the dynamic datastores defined in [NMDA<https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00#ref-NMDA>] which will

   be abbreviated as NMDA in this section.  This section provides the

   detail on how the NSRS can be built from these models and the

   RESTCONF protocol.

I'm a little bit puzzled here given that the NSRS is not about interacting =
with underlying network nodes. Especially, I'm not sure to understand the d=
iscussion about "protocol which can perform operations (read, write, notifi=
cation, actions (aka rpcs))" in this context.

[Med] It seems that this one is to be yet discussed.


(3) Table 2:



=B7         Putting aside what is meant by "NS state monitoring", is there =
any particular reason "Mechanism/protocols for NS state monitoring;" is lis=
ted under NSRS? This is IMHO more an OAM issue.


[Cr] monitoring state (i.e. including monitoring of the resource  network f=
unctions usage) would require explicit probes dynamically configure and set=
 up based on new mechanism. At such monitoring state and its configuration =
is a special and key part of the capability exposure. IMHO such monitoring =
is a key features which is currently not available - it is a gap.
[Med] I hear you, but all this should not be listed as part of the NSRS gap=
 item. My comment was to move this activity to the OAM section.


=B7         Item "8) Mechanisms for on-demand, isolated, elastic and effici=
ent network slice instantiation and resource association" is mysterious. I =
failed to find where that item is discussed in Section 6.



[Cr] The second paragraph of Sec. 6.1 simply discusses this point. The rele=
vant discussion could be enhanced in next version.

[Med] OK, thanks.



=B7         I'm not sure to understand what is meant by "10) Mechanisms for=
 customized network slices".

[Med] What about this one?



=B7         Items 12 and 13 are not related to NS identification. Further, =
those are not discussed in the corresponding section.



[Cr] Item 12, NS identification is essential for determining/discovering th=
e corresponding network slice for coming flows, OAM operations, etc. ;

[Med] Yes, but discovery is discussed in Section 9, not Section 8:


   o  Ability to automatically discover the underlying service functions
      and the slices they are involved in or they belong to.



The table should be consistent with the core text. Thanks.



Item 13, the E2E repository for NS includes the mechanisms for name of NS t=
ranslations when needed.

[Med] Not sure to get the point, especially I don't understand what you mea=
nt by "name of NS translations"



The relevant discussion will be enhanced in next version.

[Med] OK, thanks.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Med

De : Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de qiangli (D=
)
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 2 juin 2017 11:36
=C0 : NetSlices@ietf.org<mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org>
Objet : [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded


Dear All,



We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?include_text=3D1

Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.



Abstract:

   This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for

   network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related

   work and other potential solutions on network slicing.



   This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in network slicing.

Best regards,

Co-authors


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Cristina,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Please see inline.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> qiangli (D) [mailto:qiangli3@huawei.co=
m]
<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> mardi 6 juin 2017 08:49<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; NetSlices@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> Susan Hares; 'Alex Galis'<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> RE: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN">Hi Med,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN">Thank you very much for your comment, I will try to rep=
ly you inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN">Cristina QIANG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">From:</span></b><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">
<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.co=
m</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mailto:mohamed.bouca=
dair@orange.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 02, 2017 9:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> qiangli (D); <a href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Hi Cristina,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Than=
k you for sharing the draft. Please find below some comments, fwiw:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">(1) =
Section 4.2.1 mentions the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&#8220;</span><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">the [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><a href=3D"htt=
ps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00#ref-SLA-Exch=
ange"><span lang=3D"EN-US">SLA-Exchange</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN">] can be used to<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; negotiate the SLAs and report on SLA=
 events.&nbsp; Further analysis is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; needed to provide a complete package=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&#82=
20;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Actually, this is not =
possible with [SLA-Exchange] given that document says explicitly: &#8220;</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">The SLA negotiation and assurance =
is outside the scope of this document.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN">[Cr] [SLA-Exchange](i.e., draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-1=
0.txt) provides an in-band method to exchange the SLA parameters, and then =
by the receiving devices to translate
 SLA in technical specific provisioning languages. Our statement is indeed =
not accurate enough, [SLA-Exchange] could be a potential solution that INDI=
RECTLY implements the SLA negotiation IMHO. But also as this draft says &#8=
220;There does not exist any standard
 protocol to translate SLA agreements into technical clauses and configurat=
ions&#8221;, this is a technical gap we are facing now.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[Med=
] Yes, the problem addressed in draft-ietf-idr-sla is worth to be solved&#8=
230; but it is a distinct one vs. negotiation/NSRS.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">(2) =
Section 4.2.2. says the following:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; The NSRS requirement =
for reachability, direction, bandwidth<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; requirements, perform=
ance metrics, traffic isolation constraints, and<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; flow identification c=
an be built utilizing protocol which can perform<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; operations (read, wri=
te, notification, actions (aka rpcs)) on a yang<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; service layer that su=
pports these traffic engineer and resource<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; definition at the ser=
vice layers.&nbsp; The network slicing service data<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; model can extend exis=
ting work in the TEAS and I2RS working group for<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol-independent =
topology models.&nbsp; These models support<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; configuration or the =
dynamic datastores defined in [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><a href=3D"https=
://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00#ref-NMDA" titl=
e=3D"&quot;Network Management Datastore Architecture&quot;"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US">NMDA</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">] which wil=
l<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; be abbreviated as NMD=
A in this section.&nbsp; This section provides the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; detail on how the NSR=
S can be built from these models and the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:=
ZH-CN">RESTCONF protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I&#8=
217;m a little bit puzzled here given that the NSRS is not about interactin=
g with underlying network nodes. Especially, I&#8217;m not sure
 to understand the discussion about &#8220;protocol which can perform opera=
tions (read, write, notification, actions (aka rpcs))&#8221; in this contex=
t.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[Med=
] It seems that this one is to be yet discussed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">(3) Table 2:<o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=3D"mso-l=
ist:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Putting aside what is meant=
 by &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">NS state monitoring<s=
pan style=3D"color:black">&#8220;, is there any particular reason &#8220;</=
span>Mechanism/protocols for NS state monitoring;&#8221; is listed under NS=
RS? This is IMHO more an OAM issue. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN">[Cr] monitoring state (i.e. including monitoring of the=
 resource&nbsp; network functions usage) would require explicit probes dyna=
mically configure and set up based on new mechanism.
 At such monitoring state and its configuration is a special and key part o=
f the capability exposure. IMHO such monitoring is a key features which is =
currently not available - it is a gap.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[Med=
] I hear you, but all this should not be listed as part of the NSRS gap ite=
m. My comment was to move this activity to the OAM
 section.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=3D"mso-l=
ist:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Item &#8220;8) Mechanisms for on-demand=
, isolated, elastic and efficient network slice instantiation and resource =
association&#8221; is mysterious. I failed to find where that item is discu=
ssed in Section 6.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
">[Cr] The second paragraph of Sec. 6.1 simply discusses this point. </span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN">The relevant discussion could be enhanced in next version.<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[Med] OK, thanks. <o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=3D"mso-l=
ist:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I&#8217;m not sure to understand what i=
s meant by &#8220;10) Mechanisms for customized network slices&#8221;. <o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[Med] What about this =
one?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=3D"mso-l=
ist:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Items 12 and 13 are not related to NS i=
dentification. Further, those are not discussed in the corresponding sectio=
n. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-f=
areast-language:ZH-CN">[Cr] Item 12, NS identification is essential for det=
ermining/discovering the corresponding network slice for coming flows, OAM =
operations, etc. ;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-fare=
ast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[=
Med] Yes, but discovery is discussed in Section 9, not Section 8:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; Ability to automatically discover the underlying servic=
e functions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and the slices they are involved in or they b=
elong to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">T=
he table should be consistent with the core text. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-f=
areast-language:ZH-CN">Item 13, the E2E repository for NS includes the mech=
anisms for name of NS translations when needed.&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[=
Med] Not sure to get the point, especially I don&#8217;t understand what yo=
u meant by &#8220;name of NS translations&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-f=
areast-language:ZH-CN">The relevant discussion will be enhanced in next ver=
sion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[=
Med] OK, thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Than=
k you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Chee=
rs,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Med<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">
 Netslices [<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-=
bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> qiangli (D)<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;</b></span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">:</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"> vendredi 2 juin 2017 11:36<b=
r>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:NetSlices@ietf.org">NetSlices@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploa=
ded<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">We have upload &quot;Gap Analysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft =
00 on
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analy=
sis/?include_text=3D1">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?includ=
e_text=3D1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document presents network slicing differentiatio=
n from the non-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; partition network or from simply partition of connect=
ivity resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key req=
uirements for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; network slicing.&nbsp; It also presents an analysis o=
f existing related<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; work and other potential solutions on network slicing=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis fo=
r future works<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; in network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Co-authors<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Subject: [Netslices] netslicing - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 99
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Cindy Morgan, on behalf of the netslicing working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Network Slicing
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Cindy Morgan

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 150
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: TEAS, ANIMA, DETNET, SFC, NETCONF, NETMOD, SUPA, NVO3, DMM, RTGWG




People who must be present:
  Benoit Claise
  Terry Manderson

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  It is proposed that the Network Slicing BoF be held on Monday 17th July 2017 at 18:15 - 20:45 
---------------------------------------------------------


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--f4030435bc18f6ebf405518af480
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Dear Authors, et. al,
thank you for your dedicated work. I believe that this is very much need
document. I have some comments to OAM section:

   - it will be helpful to give interpretation of OAM per RFC 6921 in the
   Introduction section rather than hold it off till Section 9;
   - opening of the Section 9 lists mix of requirements and use cases. I
   agree that these are needed to help us to identify the gaps between what is
   available and what is required of OAM protocols. In Overlay OAM DT we've
   started with the requirements document
   <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-requirement-02> and
   then worked through the gap analysis
   <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-oam-gap-analysis-02>. I
   think that these documents may be used in discussing OAM;
   - in addition to [I-D.ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header] that proposes Overlay
   Associated Channel there's Overlay Echo Request/Reply
   <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-demand-cc-cv-03> draft
   that may be of use and re-use.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 2:36 AM, qiangli (D) <qiangli3@huawei.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
>
>
> We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-
> analysis/?include_text=1
>
> Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Abstract:
>
>    This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-
>
>    partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources.
>
>    It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for
>
>    network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related
>
>    work and other potential solutions on network slicing.
>
>
>
>    This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works
>
>    in network slicing.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Co-authors
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
>

--f4030435bc18f6ebf405518af480
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Authors, et. al,<div>thank you for your dedicated wor=
k. I believe that this is very much need document. I have some comments to =
OAM section:</div><div><ul><li>it will be helpful to give interpretation of=
 OAM per RFC 6921 in the Introduction section rather than hold it off till =
Section 9;</li><li>opening of the Section 9 lists mix of requirements and u=
se cases. I agree that these are needed to help us to identify the gaps bet=
ween what is available and what is required of OAM protocols. In Overlay OA=
M DT we&#39;ve started with the <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-requirement-02">requirements document</a>=C2=A0and then=
 worked through <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-o=
am-gap-analysis-02">the gap analysis</a>. I think that these documents may =
be used in discussing OAM;</li><li>in addition to [I-D.ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-he=
ader] that proposes Overlay Associated Channel there&#39;s <a href=3D"https=
://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-demand-cc-cv-03">Overlay Echo Req=
uest/Reply</a> draft that may be of use and re-use.<br></li></ul><div>Regar=
ds,</div></div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 2:36 AM, qiangli (D) <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">qiangli3=
@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208WordSection1">
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear A=
ll,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We hav=
e upload &quot;Gap Analysis for Network Slicing&quot; draft 00 on
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analy=
sis/?include_text=3D1" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-<wbr>analys=
is/?include_text=3D1</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your c=
omments and reviews are greatly appreciated.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Abstra=
ct:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non-=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources=
.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 network slicing.=C2=A0 It also presents an analysis of existing rela=
ted<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 work and other potential solutions on network slicing.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 in network slicing.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Co-authors<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--f4030435bc18f6ebf405518af480--


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/3olsaczxrHVYPskozjmLsHAvvUY>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00 Uploaded
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Dear Greg,

Thank you for your valuable comments and review which would be =
accommodated in the revised version =
"draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-01=E2=80=9D planed before IETF99

Best Regards
Alex=20
> On 9 Jun 2017, at 19:15, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Dear Authors, et. al,
> thank you for your dedicated work. I believe that this is very much =
need document. I have some comments to OAM section:
> it will be helpful to give interpretation of OAM per RFC 6921 in the =
Introduction section rather than hold it off till Section 9;
> opening of the Section 9 lists mix of requirements and use cases. I =
agree that these are needed to help us to identify the gaps between what =
is available and what is required of OAM protocols. In Overlay OAM DT =
we've started with the requirements document =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-requirement-02> and =
then worked through the gap analysis =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-oam-gap-analysis-02>. I =
think that these documents may be used in discussing OAM;
> in addition to [I-D.ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header] that proposes Overlay =
Associated Channel there's Overlay Echo Request/Reply =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-demand-cc-cv-03> draft =
that may be of use and re-use.
> Regards,
> Greg
>=20
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 2:36 AM, qiangli (D) <qiangli3@huawei.com =
<mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>> wrote:
> Dear All,
>=20
> =20
>=20
> We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?inclu=
de_text=3D1 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/?incl=
ude_text=3D1>
> Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Abstract:
>=20
>    This document presents network slicing differentiation from the =
non-
>=20
>    partition network or from simply partition of connectivity =
resources.
>=20
>    It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 key requirements for
>=20
>    network slicing.  It also presents an analysis of existing related
>=20
>    work and other potential solutions on network slicing.
>=20
> =20
>=20
>    This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works
>=20
>    in network slicing.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Co-authors
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


--Apple-Mail=_7431D796-7DE3-4DCB-BE68-0798AE996F4D
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Dear Greg,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thank you for your valuable comments and review which would =
be accommodated in the revised version =
"draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-01=E2=80=9D planed before =
IETF99</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Best =
Regards</div><div class=3D"">Alex&nbsp;<br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 9 Jun 2017, at 19:15, Greg =
Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Dear Authors, et. al,<div =
class=3D"">thank you for your dedicated work. I believe that this is =
very much need document. I have some comments to OAM section:</div><div =
class=3D""><ul class=3D""><li class=3D"">it will be helpful to give =
interpretation of OAM per RFC 6921 in the Introduction section rather =
than hold it off till Section 9;</li><li class=3D"">opening of the =
Section 9 lists mix of requirements and use cases. I agree that these =
are needed to help us to identify the gaps between what is available and =
what is required of OAM protocols. In Overlay OAM DT we've started with =
the <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-requirement-02=
" class=3D"">requirements document</a>&nbsp;and then worked through <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-oam-gap-analysis-02=
" class=3D"">the gap analysis</a>. I think that these documents may be =
used in discussing OAM;</li><li class=3D"">in addition to =
[I-D.ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header] that proposes Overlay Associated Channel =
there's <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-demand-cc-cv-03" =
class=3D"">Overlay Echo Request/Reply</a> draft that may be of use and =
re-use.<br class=3D""></li></ul><div class=3D"">Regards,</div></div><div =
class=3D"">Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 2:36 AM, qiangli (D) <span =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">qiangli3@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208WordSection1"><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">Dear All,<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">We have upload "Gap Analysis for Network Slicing" draft 00 on
<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysi=
s/?include_text=3D1" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr =
class=3D"">doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-<wbr =
class=3D"">analysis/?include_text=3D1</a><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">Abstract:<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document presents network slicing =
differentiation from the non-<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; partition network or from simply partition of =
connectivity resources.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; It lists 15 standardization gaps related to 6 =
key requirements for<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; network slicing.&nbsp; It also presents an =
analysis of existing related<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; work and other potential solutions on network =
slicing.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; This gap analysis document aims to provide a =
basis for future works<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4896958047901787208MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; in network slicing.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Best regards,<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">Co-authors<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

<br class=3D"">______________________________<wbr =
class=3D"">_________________<br class=3D"">
Netslices mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" class=3D"">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br=
 class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr =
class=3D"">listinfo/netslices</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D""></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Netslices =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" =
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class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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To: NetSlices@ietf.org, netslices-chairs@ietf.org
From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Netslices] Network Slicing BoF approved
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Dear all,

The Network Slicing BoF has been approved by the IESG and IAB, as a non 
working forming BoF, 2 hours session.
Gonzalo Camarillo and Adrian Farrel, two experienced IETFers, will be 
our BoF co-chairs.
Both have a lot of cross-area knowledge (a key characteristic for this 
topic) and Gonzalo is our IETF 3GPP liaison manager.

An email with some questions and next steps will follow tomorrow.

Regards, Benoit


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To: Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:09:36 +0100
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Subject: [Netslices] Some posts by the IETF Chair
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In case you have not seen it The IETF Chair posted a comment about the 
NS BOF on her blog;

https://www.ietf.org/blog/2017/06/new-work-at-upcoming-ietf-99-meeting/

She also posts a blog entry on her presentation to 3GPP:

https://www.ietf.org/blog/2017/06/working-together-with-3gpp-on-5g/

The slides are here:

http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Information/presentations/Presentations_2017/3GPP%20-%20IETF%20and%205G%20v2.pdf

- Stewart


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Subject: [Netslices] netslicing - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 99
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An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Stephanie McCammon, on behalf of the netslicing working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Network Slicing
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Stephanie McCammon

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 150
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: teas anima detnet sfc netconf netmod supa nvo3 dmm rtgwg i2nsf l2sm hip sipbrandy tram




People who must be present:
  Benoit Claise
  Terry Manderson

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  It is proposed that the Network Slicing BoF be held on Monday 17th July 2017 at 18:15 - 20:45
---------------------------------------------------------


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An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Stephanie McCammon, on behalf of the netslicing working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Network Slicing
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Stephanie McCammon

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 150
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: tram sipbrandy hip l2sm i2nsf rtgwg dmm nvo3 supa netmod netconf sfc detnet anima teas
 Second Priority: pce quic ccamp



People who must be present:
  Benoit Claise
  Terry Manderson

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  It is proposed that the Network Slicing BoF be held on Monday 17th July 2017 at 18:15 - 20:45
---------------------------------------------------------


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Subject: [Netslices] Applicability of Abstraction and Control of TE Networks (ACTN) to Network Slicing
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Dear Netslices, 

 

I thought it might be helpful to write a TEAS I-D to summarise applicability
of ACTN to network slicing. The I-D highlights how ACTN might address some
of network slicing problem space, it also documents where/what gaps may
exist. The I-D URL is below, any review/comments on the TEAS list would be
most welcome. 

 

Applicability of Abstraction and Control of TE Networks (ACTN) to Network
Slicing

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00

 

BR, Dan. 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> 
Sent: 13 June 2017 16:03
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org> 
Subject: I-D Action: draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00.txt

 

 

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.

 

 

        Title           : Applicability of Abstraction and Control of TE
Networks (ACTN) to Network Slicing

        Author          : Daniel King

                Filename        :
draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00.txt

                Pages           : 14

                Date            : 2017-06-13

 

Abstract:

   Network abstraction is a technique that can be applied to a network

   domain to manage network resources to create a virtualized network

   that is under the control of a network operator (or perhaps the

   customer).

 

   Network slicing is an approach to network operations that builds on

   the concept of network abstraction to provide programmability,

   flexibility, and modularity.  It uses techniques such as Software

   Defined Networking (SDN) and Network Function Virtualization (NFV)

   to create multiple logical (virtual) networks, each tailored for a

   given use case, on top of a common network.

 

   These logical networks are referred to as network slices. A network

   slice does not necessarily represent dedicated resources in the

   server network, but does constitute a commitment by the service

   provider to provide a specific level of service.

 

   The Abstraction and Control of Traffic Engineered Networks (ACTN)

   defines an SDN-based architecture that relies on the concepts of

   network and service abstraction to detach network and service

   control from the underlying data plane.

 

   This document outlines the applicability of ACTN to network

   slicing in an IETF technology network.  It also identifies the

   features of network slicing not currently within the scope of ACTN,

   and indicates where ACTN might be extended.

 

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:

 
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing
/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing/

 

There are also htmlized versions available at:

 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00>
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00

 
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-sl
icing-00>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-sli
cing-00

 


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Dear Netslices, <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>I =
thought it might be helpful to write a TEAS I-D to summarise =
applicability of ACTN to network slicing. The I-D highlights how ACTN =
might address some of network slicing problem space, it also documents =
where/what gaps may exist. The I-D URL is below, any review/comments on =
the TEAS list would be most welcome. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Applicability of Abstraction and Control of TE =
Networks (ACTN) to Network Slicing<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-sl=
icing-00">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-=
slicing-00</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>BR, =
Dan. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: =
I-D-Announce [<a =
href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:i-d-announce-bounces=
@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of <a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><br>=
Sent: 13 June 2017 16:03<br>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a><br>Subjec=
t: I-D Action: =
draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00.txt</span><o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>A New =
Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Title&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
Applicability of Abstraction and Control of TE Networks (ACTN) to =
Network Slicing<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Author&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : Daniel =
King<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Filename&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00.txt<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Pages&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
14<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Date&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
2017-06-13<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Abstract:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; Network abstraction is a technique =
that can be applied to a network<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; domain to manage network resources to =
create a virtualized network<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; that is under the control of a network =
operator (or perhaps the<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; customer).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; Network slicing is an approach to =
network operations that builds on<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; the concept of network abstraction to =
provide programmability,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; flexibility, and modularity.&nbsp; It =
uses techniques such as Software<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; Defined Networking (SDN) and Network =
Function Virtualization (NFV)<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; to create multiple logical (virtual) =
networks, each tailored for a<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; given use case, on top of a common =
network.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; These logical networks are referred to =
as network slices. A network<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; slice does not necessarily represent =
dedicated resources in the<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; server network, but does constitute a =
commitment by the service<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; provider to provide a specific level =
of service.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; The Abstraction and Control of Traffic =
Engineered Networks (ACTN)<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; defines an SDN-based architecture that =
relies on the concepts of<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; network and service abstraction to =
detach network and service<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; control from the underlying data =
plane.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; This document outlines the =
applicability of ACTN to network<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; slicing in an IETF technology =
network.&nbsp; It also identifies the<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; features of network slicing not =
currently within the scope of ACTN,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; and indicates where ACTN might be =
extended.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft =
is:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-king-teas-applicability-ac=
tn-slicing/"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing/</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>There are also htmlized versions available =
at:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-sl=
icing-00"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00</span></a><o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-king-teas-applicabili=
ty-actn-slicing-00"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0137_01D2E466.983DCDB0--


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Subject: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Dear all,

It's time to prepare this coming non-WG forming BoF.

A BoF is successful when the proponents are able to clearly explain 
their problem statement to the audience, to get the audience to agree 
that this is an important topic, and propose (a start of) a solution as 
a way forward. RFC 5434 is a good read, from which I particularly like:

    In those cases, the goal of the
    BOF is to demonstrate that the community has agreement that:

           - there is a problem that needs solving, and the IETF is the right
             group to attempt solving it.

           - there is a critical mass of participants willing to work on the
             problem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, etc.).

           - the scope of the problem is well defined and understood, that
             is, people generally understand what the WG will work on (and
             what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will be.

           - there is agreement that the specific deliverables (i.e.,
             proposed documents) are the right set.

           - it is believed that the WG has a reasonable probability of
             having success (i.e., in completing the deliverables in its
             charter in a timely fashion).


Not all questions are valid for a non working forming BoF, but you 
should keep these questions in mind.

The BoF objectives should be:
- Network slicing is not a new concept but has some specific meaning and 
expectations in 5G. We need to understand the 3GPP requirements for the 
IETF.
- We need to make a sure that we agree on terminology and the meaning of 
terms.
- Personally, I'm not clear if we speak about underlay or overlay. Which 
layers/technologies do we speak about here?
- This network slicing work is very broad, and other WGs doing the 
related work. I see some interactions with the OPS, the INT (by overlay 
or underlay), and the RTG area.
   Specifically for the OPS aspects, it seems like the drafts want to 
specify a full system architecture and a full provisioning system.
   We need to identify some IETF deliverables, in line with the 3GPP 
requirements.

We also have to realize that we don't need a new WG to coordinate work 
in different WGs.

Because of the BoF time constraints, the chairs will have soon [1] a 
structured agenda.

Regards, Benoit (as responsible AD).

[1] for the fun part, see 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-soon/

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<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Dear all,<br>
    <div class="moz-forward-container"> <br>
      It's time to prepare this coming non-WG forming BoF.<br>
      <br>
      A BoF is successful when the proponents are able to clearly
      explain their problem statement to the audience, to get the
      audience to agree that this is an important topic, and propose (a
      start of) a solution as a way forward. RFC 5434 is a good read,
      from which I particularly like:<br>
      <blockquote>
        <pre class="newpage">In those cases, the goal of the
BOF is to demonstrate that the community has agreement that:

      - there is a problem that needs solving, and the IETF is the right
        group to attempt solving it.

      - there is a critical mass of participants willing to work on the
        problem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, etc.).

      - the scope of the problem is well defined and understood, that
        is, people generally understand what the WG will work on (and
        what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will be.

      - there is agreement that the specific deliverables (i.e.,
        proposed documents) are the right set.

      - it is believed that the WG has a reasonable probability of
        having success (i.e., in completing the deliverables in its
        charter in a timely fashion).</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      Not all questions are valid for a non working forming BoF, but you
      should keep these questions in mind.<br>
      <span lang="EN-GB"> <br>
        The BoF objectives should be:<br>
        - </span><span lang="EN-GB">Network slicing is not a new
        concept but has some specific meaning and expectations in 5G. We
        need to understand the 3GPP requirements for the IETF.<br>
        - We need to make a sure that we agree on terminology and the
        meaning of terms. <br>
        - Personally, I'm not clear if we speak about underlay or
        overlay. Which layers/technologies do we speak about here?<br>
        - This network slicing work is v</span><span lang="EN-GB">ery
        broad, and other WGs doing the related work. I see some
        interactions with the OPS, the INT (by overlay or underlay), and
        the RTG area.<br>
        Â  Specifically for the OPS aspects, it seems like the drafts
        want to specify a full system architecture and a full
        provisioning system</span><span lang="EN-GB"><span lang="EN-GB"><span
            lang="EN-GB">. <br>
          </span></span></span><span lang="EN-GB"><span lang="EN-GB"><span
            lang="EN-GB"><span lang="EN-GB">Â  We need to identify some
              IETF deliverables, in line with the 3GPP requirements. <br>
              <br>
            </span>We also have to realize </span></span></span>that we
      don't need a new WG to coordinate work in different WGs.<br>
      <br>
      <span lang="EN-GB"><span lang="EN-GB"><span lang="EN-GB">Because
            of the BoF time constraints, the chairs will have soon [1] a
            structured agenda.</span></span></span><br>
      <br>
      Regards, Benoit (as responsible AD).<br>
      <br>
      [1] for the fun part, see
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-soon/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-soon/</a><br>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

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From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
To: Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:17:20 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/RK1xKjNZiwTil9gvFtQz-3KmHWY>
Subject: [Netslices] Timing service
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I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing 
requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing systems 
(which in itself is a challenge).

They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.

The latency requirements for timing services are different from the 
latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency 
(although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and 
latency symmetry.

So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it go 
in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go 
in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?

- Stewart


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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 13:43:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hey Stewart, yes, or even tighter depending on what is happening with the a=
ir interface, I've heard 100ns in some cases.

Some carriers will distribute time over 10-20 hops from a grand master or p=
air of grand master clock sources over redundant trees. As a result the tim=
e distribution is likely orthogonal to the slice resources although I suppo=
se nothing prevents it from being per slice except the added complexity. Ho=
wever per slice timing would only make sense if the different slices were n=
ot sharing the same radios. I assume that when slices are sharing the same =
radio that the radio would need timing as precise as the most stringent air=
 interface it is generating. Of course we expect to have radios that will d=
o URRLC, eMBB, MMTC, NBIOT and LTE so you really only need one (primary) so=
urce of time/frequency for all those air interfaces into that radio.

Yes latency asymmetry is a problem and over 20 hops each little bit of asym=
metry in the fiber lengths can add up to a significant error. We have seen =
fiber tx/rx length differences of 100's of meters in some instances which w=
ill wreak havoc with 1588's one way delay estimation (based on RTD/2) when =
trying to get to the 100ns level of clock synchronization precision.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Br=
yant
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 7:17 AM
To: Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: [Netslices] Timing service


I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing requ=
irements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing systems (which=
 in itself is a challenge).

They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.

The latency requirements for timing services are different from the latency=
 requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency (although=
 that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and latency symmetry.

So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it go in=
 the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go in a=
 single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?

- Stewart

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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Reply-To: <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>
From: "sebastian" <comscape@gmail.com>
To: "'AshwoodsmithPeter'" <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, "'Stewart Bryant'" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "'Network Slices'" <netslices@ietf.org>
References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E23223B1F7@YYZEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 09:08:07 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hello, Peter,

Currently, the IMT-2020 round trip latency bound target for the URLLC class
of services is 1millisecound, which includes the radio interface.

With the current plans, associated with the new radio specifications, the
timing aspects are expected to be coordinated across the radio sub-layers
and the core network, with both content and context being shifted and
distributed at the edges of network access.

With this background the instantiation potential of a 'network slice', will
be relatively flexible for a service realization in the system as a whole.

Many thanks.
-Sebastian

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
AshwoodsmithPeter
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 8:44 AM
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Network Slices
<netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service

Hey Stewart, yes, or even tighter depending on what is happening with the
air interface, I've heard 100ns in some cases.

Some carriers will distribute time over 10-20 hops from a grand master or
pair of grand master clock sources over redundant trees. As a result the
time distribution is likely orthogonal to the slice resources although I
suppose nothing prevents it from being per slice except the added
complexity. However per slice timing would only make sense if the different
slices were not sharing the same radios. I assume that when slices are
sharing the same radio that the radio would need timing as precise as the
most stringent air interface it is generating. Of course we expect to have
radios that will do URRLC, eMBB, MMTC, NBIOT and LTE so you really only need
one (primary) source of time/frequency for all those air interfaces into
that radio.

Yes latency asymmetry is a problem and over 20 hops each little bit of
asymmetry in the fiber lengths can add up to a significant error. We have
seen fiber tx/rx length differences of 100's of meters in some instances
which will wreak havoc with 1588's one way delay estimation (based on RTD/2)
when trying to get to the 100ns level of clock synchronization precision.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart
Bryant
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 7:17 AM
To: Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: [Netslices] Timing service


I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing systems
(which in itself is a challenge).

They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.

The latency requirements for timing services are different from the latency
requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency (although
that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and latency symmetry.

So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it go in
the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go in a
single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?

- Stewart

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: "sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org" <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>, "'Stewart Bryant'" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "'Network Slices'" <netslices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:26:52 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hey Sebastian,=20

I believe you are confusing latency for the data (as you say 1-2ms for URRL=
C) and latency variation for the measurement of one way delay. As you corre=
ctly point out there are methods under study to get those end to end data d=
elays down including content and state distribution in the packet cores clo=
ser to the edge, smaller OFDM frames etc... however..

Stewart's question relates to the latency variation and its impacts on bein=
g able to set clocks at different locations that are synchronized to within=
 a few hundred nanoseconds of each other. Essentially the hop by hop latenc=
y variation is a source of error when you set your clock relative to anothe=
r clock based on computing that one way delay =3D 1/2 the round trip delay =
... which is what 1588v2 does.

GPS is one option but of course we can't use GPS everywhere and it won't wo=
rk indoors. Currently the world's biggest operators having timing chains ap=
proaching 20 hops. Each hop sets its clock relative to the previous hop by =
subtracting 1/2 RTD from the time it receives the message.. hence the cumul=
ative error.

My point was that I don't think you want a 1588 instance per slice but like=
ly you want one or two instances per physical infrastructure since that wou=
ld be simpler and also that the radios for multiple slices are likely commo=
n in many cases and therefore had a requirement for a primary and backup cl=
ock source which is as precise as the most stringent air interface (slice) =
they have to deal with at any particular time.=20

I believe we have some good public materials that I will dig up the links t=
o and share.=20

Cheers

Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: sebastian [mailto:comscape@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 10:08 AM
To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>; 'Stewart Bryant' <st=
ewart.bryant@gmail.com>; 'Network Slices' <netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Netslices] Timing service

Hello, Peter,

Currently, the IMT-2020 round trip latency bound target for the URLLC class=
 of services is 1millisecound, which includes the radio interface.

With the current plans, associated with the new radio specifications, the t=
iming aspects are expected to be coordinated across the radio sub-layers an=
d the core network, with both content and context being shifted and distrib=
uted at the edges of network access.

With this background the instantiation potential of a 'network slice', will=
 be relatively flexible for a service realization in the system as a whole.

Many thanks.
-Sebastian

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ashwoodsmi=
thPeter
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 8:44 AM
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Network Slices <netslices@ie=
tf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service

Hey Stewart, yes, or even tighter depending on what is happening with the a=
ir interface, I've heard 100ns in some cases.

Some carriers will distribute time over 10-20 hops from a grand master or p=
air of grand master clock sources over redundant trees. As a result the tim=
e distribution is likely orthogonal to the slice resources although I suppo=
se nothing prevents it from being per slice except the added complexity. Ho=
wever per slice timing would only make sense if the different slices were n=
ot sharing the same radios. I assume that when slices are sharing the same =
radio that the radio would need timing as precise as the most stringent air=
 interface it is generating. Of course we expect to have radios that will d=
o URRLC, eMBB, MMTC, NBIOT and LTE so you really only need one (primary) so=
urce of time/frequency for all those air interfaces into that radio.

Yes latency asymmetry is a problem and over 20 hops each little bit of asym=
metry in the fiber lengths can add up to a significant error. We have seen =
fiber tx/rx length differences of 100's of meters in some instances which w=
ill wreak havoc with 1588's one way delay estimation (based on RTD/2) when =
trying to get to the 100ns level of clock synchronization precision.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Br=
yant
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 7:17 AM
To: Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: [Netslices] Timing service


I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing requ=
irements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing systems (which=
 in itself is a challenge).

They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.

The latency requirements for timing services are different from the latency=
 requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency (although=
 that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and latency symmetry.

So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it go in=
 the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go in a=
 single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?

- Stewart

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


From nobody Sat Jun 17 07:31:26 2017
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Network Slices" <netslices@ietf.org>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 15:31:18 +0100
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Subject: [Netslices] Provisional BoF Date and Time
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Hi,

The early draft schedule agenda shows us meeting on Monday 17 July from 13.30 to
15.30.

We are scheduled against cdni, jmap, rtcweb, 6tisch, homenet, iccrg, isis, and
lisp. Please let the chairs know if you believe any of these is a *significant*
issue (minor inconvenience is, erm, just a minor inconvenience).

Thanks,
Adrian


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From: "sebastian" <comscape@gmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 10:13:32 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hello, Stewart,

Yes, there are two aspects:
1. Round-trip latency bound targets for the most latency sensitive service
that fall within the category of URLLC
2. Clock synchronization offset induced latency variations, which result
from different sources of clock reference, across different serving domains.

Solution strategies:
a) To satisfy item 1, above the an appropriate allocation of resources and
functions, would be required to instantiate a corresponding network slice.
b) To mitigate the impact of item 2, with respect to performance and any
related SLAs (Service Level Agreements), the participating domains in the
instantiation of a corresponding network slice, would be required to
synchronize the different reference clocks 'a priori' as part of the
management and orchestration procedures. (e.g. GPS tec., for indoors
beacons, and relay methods can be used to relay GPS signals.)

Since timing synchronization, across spatially distributed entities, can be
imagined as a physical phenomenon, it would not be a candidate for
virtualization.
Hence, timing synchronization would be physical process that underlies the
instantiation of any 'network slice' for supporting any extremely
low-latency service, in the 5G ecosystem.

Many  thanks.
-Sebastian

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart
Bryant
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:17 AM
To: Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: [Netslices] Timing service


I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing systems
(which in itself is a challenge).

They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.

The latency requirements for timing services are different from the latency
requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency (although
that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and latency symmetry.

So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it go in
the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go in a
single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?

- Stewart

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 12:32:21 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hi Sebastian,
for #2, I think, to improve clock synchronization may use on-path support
measuring residence time through traversed nodes. I can refer to RFC 8169
which defines transport of PTP messages combined with residence time
measurement in MPLS network.
I agree that high quality clock synchronization is rather physical than
virtual element. Though, for some applications that do not require high
quality clock synchronization, it may be part of NSi resource.

Regards,
Greg

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 10:13 AM, sebastian <comscape@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, Stewart,
>
> Yes, there are two aspects:
> 1. Round-trip latency bound targets for the most latency sensitive service
> that fall within the category of URLLC
> 2. Clock synchronization offset induced latency variations, which result
> from different sources of clock reference, across different serving
> domains.
>
> Solution strategies:
> a) To satisfy item 1, above the an appropriate allocation of resources and
> functions, would be required to instantiate a corresponding network slice.
> b) To mitigate the impact of item 2, with respect to performance and any
> related SLAs (Service Level Agreements), the participating domains in the
> instantiation of a corresponding network slice, would be required to
> synchronize the different reference clocks 'a priori' as part of the
> management and orchestration procedures. (e.g. GPS tec., for indoors
> beacons, and relay methods can be used to relay GPS signals.)
>
> Since timing synchronization, across spatially distributed entities, can be
> imagined as a physical phenomenon, it would not be a candidate for
> virtualization.
> Hence, timing synchronization would be physical process that underlies the
> instantiation of any 'network slice' for supporting any extremely
> low-latency service, in the 5G ecosystem.
>
> Many  thanks.
> -Sebastian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart
> Bryant
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:17 AM
> To: Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>
> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing systems
> (which in itself is a challenge).
>
> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.
>
> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the latency
> requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency (although
> that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and latency symmetry.
>
> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it go in
> the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go in a
> single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>
> - Stewart
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Sebastian,<div>for #2, I think, to improve clock synchr=
onization may use on-path support measuring residence time through traverse=
d nodes. I can refer to RFC 8169 which defines transport of PTP messages co=
mbined with residence time measurement in MPLS network.</div><div>I agree t=
hat high quality clock synchronization is rather physical than virtual elem=
ent. Though, for some applications that do not require high quality clock s=
ynchronization, it may be part of NSi resource.</div><div><br></div><div>Re=
gards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 10:13 AM, sebastian <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:comscape@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">comscape@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello, Stew=
art,<br>
<br>
Yes, there are two aspects:<br>
1. Round-trip latency bound targets for the most latency sensitive service<=
br>
that fall within the category of URLLC<br>
2. Clock synchronization offset induced latency variations, which result<br=
>
from different sources of clock reference, across different serving domains=
.<br>
<br>
Solution strategies:<br>
a) To satisfy item 1, above the an appropriate allocation of resources and<=
br>
functions, would be required to instantiate a corresponding network slice.<=
br>
b) To mitigate the impact of item 2, with respect to performance and any<br=
>
related SLAs (Service Level Agreements), the participating domains in the<b=
r>
instantiation of a corresponding network slice, would be required to<br>
synchronize the different reference clocks &#39;a priori&#39; as part of th=
e<br>
management and orchestration procedures. (e.g. GPS tec., for indoors<br>
beacons, and relay methods can be used to relay GPS signals.)<br>
<br>
Since timing synchronization, across spatially distributed entities, can be=
<br>
imagined as a physical phenomenon, it would not be a candidate for<br>
virtualization.<br>
Hence, timing synchronization would be physical process that underlies the<=
br>
instantiation of any &#39;network slice&#39; for supporting any extremely<b=
r>
low-latency service, in the 5G ecosystem.<br>
<span class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
Many=C2=A0 thanks.<br>
-Sebastian<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
</span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb">From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@<wbr>ietf.org</a>] On Behalf =
Of Stewart<br>
Bryant<br>
</span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb">Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:17 AM<br>
To: Network Slices &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf=
.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">I was at a 5G seminar yester=
day where it was explained that the timing<br>
requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing systems<br=
>
(which in itself is a challenge).<br>
<br>
They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
<br>
The latency requirements for timing services are different from the latency=
<br>
requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency (although<=
br>
that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and latency symmetry.<=
br>
<br>
So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it go in=
<br>
the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go in a<=
br>
single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>
<br>
- Stewart<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Reply-To: <sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org>
From: "sebastian" <comscape@gmail.com>
To: "'Greg Mirsky'" <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: "'Stewart Bryant'" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "'Network Slices'" <netslices@ietf.org>
References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <003401d2e77c$48fae990$daf0bcb0$@gmail.com> <CA+RyBmXGdx7tjMio45tEz6q0923U_2DU_Jvrt=KYyf7yg958tA@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hello, Greg,

=20

Yes, for on-path measurement,  techniques such as the one you mentioned =
would be appropriate.

=20

Agree that for relatively relaxed latency bound applications, the cock =
reference could be a part of network slice instantiation, while for =
ultra-low-latency bound applications, the clock references could be =
synchronized through an underlying physical mediation scheme.

=20

Many thanks.

    Sebastian

=20

From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 12:32 PM
To: sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Network Slices =
<netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service

=20

Hi Sebastian,

for #2, I think, to improve clock synchronization may use on-path =
support measuring residence time through traversed nodes. I can refer to =
RFC 8169 which defines transport of PTP messages combined with residence =
time measurement in MPLS network.

I agree that high quality clock synchronization is rather physical than =
virtual element. Though, for some applications that do not require high =
quality clock synchronization, it may be part of NSi resource.

=20

Regards,

Greg

=20

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 10:13 AM, sebastian <comscape@gmail.com =
<mailto:comscape@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hello, Stewart,

Yes, there are two aspects:
1. Round-trip latency bound targets for the most latency sensitive =
service
that fall within the category of URLLC
2. Clock synchronization offset induced latency variations, which result
from different sources of clock reference, across different serving =
domains.

Solution strategies:
a) To satisfy item 1, above the an appropriate allocation of resources =
and
functions, would be required to instantiate a corresponding network =
slice.
b) To mitigate the impact of item 2, with respect to performance and any
related SLAs (Service Level Agreements), the participating domains in =
the
instantiation of a corresponding network slice, would be required to
synchronize the different reference clocks 'a priori' as part of the
management and orchestration procedures. (e.g. GPS tec., for indoors
beacons, and relay methods can be used to relay GPS signals.)

Since timing synchronization, across spatially distributed entities, can =
be
imagined as a physical phenomenon, it would not be a candidate for
virtualization.
Hence, timing synchronization would be physical process that underlies =
the
instantiation of any 'network slice' for supporting any extremely
low-latency service, in the 5G ecosystem.

Many  thanks.
-Sebastian

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> ] On Behalf Of Stewart
Bryant
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:17 AM
To: Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org <mailto:netslices@ietf.org> >
Subject: [Netslices] Timing service



I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing systems
(which in itself is a challenge).

They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.

The latency requirements for timing services are different from the =
latency
requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency =
(although
that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and latency =
symmetry.

So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it go =
in
the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go in =
a
single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?

- Stewart

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>=20
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>=20
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Hello, Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Yes, for on-path measurement, =
=C2=A0techniques such as the one you mentioned would be =
appropriate.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Agree that for relatively relaxed latency =
bound applications, the cock reference could be a part of network slice =
instantiation, while for ultra-low-latency bound applications, the clock =
references could be synchronized through an underlying physical =
mediation scheme.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>Many thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Sebastian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#3580E3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p><span =
style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky =
[mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 17, 2017 =
12:32 PM<br><b>To:</b> sebastian.thalanany@ieee.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;; Network Slices =
&lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Netslices] Timing =
service<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Sebastian,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>for #2, I think, to improve clock synchronization may =
use on-path support measuring residence time through traversed nodes. I =
can refer to RFC 8169 which defines transport of PTP messages combined =
with residence time measurement in MPLS =
network.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I agree that high =
quality clock synchronization is rather physical than virtual element. =
Though, for some applications that do not require high quality clock =
synchronization, it may be part of NSi =
resource.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Greg<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Sat, =
Jun 17, 2017 at 10:13 AM, sebastian &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:comscape@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">comscape@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hello, Stewart,<br><br>Yes, there are two =
aspects:<br>1. Round-trip latency bound targets for the most latency =
sensitive service<br>that fall within the category of URLLC<br>2. Clock =
synchronization offset induced latency variations, which result<br>from =
different sources of clock reference, across different serving =
domains.<br><br>Solution strategies:<br>a) To satisfy item 1, above the =
an appropriate allocation of resources and<br>functions, would be =
required to instantiate a corresponding network slice.<br>b) To mitigate =
the impact of item 2, with respect to performance and any<br>related =
SLAs (Service Level Agreements), the participating domains in =
the<br>instantiation of a corresponding network slice, would be required =
to<br>synchronize the different reference clocks 'a priori' as part of =
the<br>management and orchestration procedures. (e.g. GPS tec., for =
indoors<br>beacons, and relay methods can be used to relay GPS =
signals.)<br><br>Since timing synchronization, across spatially =
distributed entities, can be<br>imagined as a physical phenomenon, it =
would not be a candidate for<br>virtualization.<br>Hence, timing =
synchronization would be physical process that underlies =
the<br>instantiation of any 'network slice' for supporting any =
extremely<br>low-latency service, in the 5G ecosystem.<br><br><span =
class=3Dim>Many&nbsp; thanks.</span><br><span =
class=3Dim>-Sebastian</span><br><br><span class=3Dim>-----Original =
Message-----</span><br><span class=3Dim>From: Netslices [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
] On Behalf Of Stewart</span><br><span class=3Dim>Bryant</span><br><span =
class=3Dim>Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 6:17 AM</span><br><span =
class=3Dim>To: Network Slices &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br><=
span class=3Dim>Subject: [Netslices] Timing =
service</span><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the =
timing<br>requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for =
existing systems<br>(which in itself is a challenge).<br><br>They were =
talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br><br>The =
latency requirements for timing services are different from the =
latency<br>requirements of other services. They do not need minimum =
latency (although<br>that is nice to have) they need latency =
consistently and latency symmetry.<br><br>So one question I have is how =
we transmit the timing service. Does it go in<br>the underlay and =
provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go in a<br>single =
slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br><br>- =
Stewart<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Netslic=
es mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>=
<br>_______________________________________________<br>Netslices mailing =
list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><o:p=
></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0042_01D2E76D.5965A1D0--


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From: GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hi Stewart,

I think you have raised a very interesting topic.

Since the Time/clock synchronization acts as fundamentals to forwarding pla=
ne of a specific network element and it normally acts as end-to-end. I thin=
k the reality is that it is hard to separate this ability as we separate th=
e others to offer a XaaS - that would mean a physical network element may n=
eed to maintain various system times to offer the differentiated timing ser=
vice - weird and complex.

I think it would make sense to regard 1588v2 network as a separate NSI - bu=
t I think the reality is - it already is an isolated domain. This forms a f=
undamental end-to-end timing service capability and can be offered by indic=
ating "worst jitter" according to the topology of the created NSI.

Best wishes
Liang

________________________________
Liang GENG
China Mobile Research Institute

From: Stewart Bryant<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Date: 2017-06-16 19:17
To: Network Slices<mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: [Netslices] Timing service

I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing systems
(which in itself is a challenge).

They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.

The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency
(although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and
latency symmetry.

So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it go
in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it go
in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?

- Stewart

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; margin-botto=
m: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Tahoma;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</style>
</head>
<body>
<div><span></span>Hi Stewart,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think you have raised a very interesting topic.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since the Time/clock synchronization acts as fundamentals to forwardin=
g plane of a specific network element and it normally acts as end-to-end. I=
 think the reality is that it is hard to separate this ability as we separa=
te the others to offer a XaaS -
 that would mean a physical network element may need to maintain various sy=
stem times to offer the differentiated timing service - weird and complex.<=
/div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think it would make sense to regard 1588v2 network as a separate NSI=
 - but I think the reality is - it already is an isolated domain. This form=
s a fundamental end-to-end timing service capability and can be offered by =
indicating &quot;worst jitter&quot; according
 to the topology of the created NSI.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best wishes</div>
<div>Liang</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=
=3D"left">
<div><span>Liang GENG
<div>China Mobile Research Institute</div>
</span></div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5e=
m;">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<div style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-F=
AMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefef; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDI=
NG-TOP: 8px">
<div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">Stewart =
Bryant</a></div>
<div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2017-06-16&nbsp;19:17</div>
<div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">Network Slices</=
a></div>
<div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[Netslices] Timing service</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing=
 </div>
<div>requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing syste=
ms </div>
<div>(which in itself is a challenge).</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.=
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The latency requirements for timing services are different from the </=
div>
<div>latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum laten=
cy </div>
<div>(although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and </d=
iv>
<div>latency symmetry.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it =
go </div>
<div>in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it =
go </div>
<div>in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>- Stewart</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>_______________________________________________</div>
<div>Netslices mailing list</div>
<div>Netslices@ietf.org</div>
<div>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

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From: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Err...

What does it have to do with slicing?

I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own 
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common 
use case.

Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or 
test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network 
design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.

A.


On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>
> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing 
> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing 
> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>
> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.
>
> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the 
> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum 
> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently 
> and latency symmetry.
>
> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it 
> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does 
> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>
> - Stewart
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>


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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hi Anton,

wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchronization=
 for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?

Just asking myself it this would make sense.

BR
Daniele =20

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivan=
ov
Sent: marted=EC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
To: netslices@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service

Err...

What does it have to do with slicing?

I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own special, =
different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.

Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or tes=
t particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design rati=
onale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.

A.


On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>
> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing=20
> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing=20
> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>
> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.
>
> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the=20
> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum=20
> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently=20
> and latency symmetry.
>
> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it=20
> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does=20
> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>
> - Stewart
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> Hi Anton,
>
> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?

There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The 
English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".

It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out than 
to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have jitter 
within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.

We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonable and 
unreasonable asks.

That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole thing. 
There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA 
restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely between 
multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase of 
this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabled 
slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at the 
edge to all consumers as a shared service.

But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a 
network as you see fit".

A.

>
> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>
> BR
> Daniele
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov
> Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017 11:44
> To: netslices@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
> Err...
>
> What does it have to do with slicing?
>
> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.
>
> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>
> A.
>
>
> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>
>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.
>>
>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently
>> and latency symmetry.
>>
>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it
>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does
>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>
>> - Stewart
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>


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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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	I agree. It looks like we are again over-rotating on the =
5G/wireless requirements.=20

	=E2=80=94Tom


> On Jun 20, 2017:5:44 AM, at 5:44 AM, Anton Ivanov =
<anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> wrote:
>=20
> Err...
>=20
> What does it have to do with slicing?
>=20
> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own =
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common =
use case.
>=20
> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove =
or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network =
design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>=20
> A.
>=20
>=20
> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>=20
>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the =
timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing =
systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>=20
>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from =
2020.
>>=20
>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the =
latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum latency =
(although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently and =
latency symmetry.
>>=20
>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it =
go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does it =
go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>=20
>> - Stewart
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 08:38:16 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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	Wouldn=E2=80=99t sync be a service that should be made available =
to any given =E2=80=9Cslice=E2=80=9D ?
As we have found in the past, virtualization of things that really =
should
be run on bare metal (i.e.: that need direct allocation of physical =
resources) to function
properly and at scale, is not a good idea.

	=E2=80=94Tom


> On Jun 20, 2017:6:22 AM, at 6:22 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli =
<daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Anton,
>=20
> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need =
synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized =
network?
>=20
> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>=20
> BR
> Daniele =20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton =
Ivanov
> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
> To: netslices@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>=20
> Err...
>=20
> What does it have to do with slicing?
>=20
> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own =
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common =
use case.
>=20
> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove =
or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network =
design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>=20
> A.
>=20
>=20
> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>=20
>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the =
timing=20
>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing=20
>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>=20
>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from =
2020.
>>=20
>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the=20=

>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum=20
>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency =
consistently=20
>> and latency symmetry.
>>=20
>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it=20=

>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does=20=

>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>=20
>> - Stewart
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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From: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
To: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:41:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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On 20/06/17 13:38, Gert Grammel wrote:
> Daniele, Anton,
>
> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
> 1) Is timing a service?
> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>
> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by default on all resources.

It is also possible (and much easier from an engineering perspective) to 
consider timing a service and "add it" to a slice only on at the last 
hop(s) and only if requested.

A.

> As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Gert
>
> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00
>   
>
> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> wrote:
>
>      On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>      > Hi Anton,
>      >
>      > wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?
>      
>      There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The
>      English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>      
>      It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out than
>      to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have jitter
>      within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>      
>      We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonable and
>      unreasonable asks.
>      
>      That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.
>      There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>      restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely between
>      multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase of
>      this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabled
>      slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at the
>      edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>      
>      But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a
>      network as you see fit".
>      
>      A.
>      
>      >
>      > Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>      >
>      > BR
>      > Daniele
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov
>      > Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>      > To: netslices@ietf.org
>      > Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>      >
>      > Err...
>      >
>      > What does it have to do with slicing?
>      >
>      > I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.
>      >
>      > Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>      >
>      > A.
>      >
>      >
>      > On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>      >> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
>      >> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>      >> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>      >>
>      >> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.
>      >>
>      >> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>      >> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>      >> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently
>      >> and latency symmetry.
>      >>
>      >> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it
>      >> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does
>      >> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>      >>
>      >> - Stewart
>      >>
>      >> _______________________________________________
>      >> Netslices mailing list
>      >> Netslices@ietf.org
>      >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>      >>
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > Netslices mailing list
>      > Netslices@ietf.org
>      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>      >
>      
>      _______________________________________________
>      Netslices mailing list
>      Netslices@ietf.org
>      https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>      
>


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From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:33:28 -0400
Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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	Gert:

	I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases =
require a timing service to be available to it.
I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some =
specification.  However, aside from that
there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service =
encased within the
slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a =
requirement - running a bare metal
version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems =
perfectly acceptable. =20

	=E2=80=94Tom


> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>=20
> Daniele, Anton,
>=20
> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
> 1) Is timing a service?
> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>=20
> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that =
cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). =
It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are =
enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY =
need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a =
client would not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but =
could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.=20
> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be =
created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology =
dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>=20
> Thoughts?
>=20
> Gert
>=20
> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00=20=

>=20
>=20
> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" =
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> =
wrote:
>=20
>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>> Hi Anton,
>>=20
>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need =
synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized =
network?
>=20
>    There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=
=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=
=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The=20
>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>=20
>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out =
than=20
>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have =
jitter=20
>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>=20
>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are =
reasonable and=20
>    unreasonable asks.
>=20
>    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole =
thing.=20
>    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA=20
>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely =
between=20
>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase =
of=20
>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync =
enabled=20
>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at =
the=20
>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>=20
>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a=20=

>    network as you see fit".
>=20
>    A.
>=20
>>=20
>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>=20
>> BR
>> Daniele
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Anton Ivanov
>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>> To: netslices@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>=20
>> Err...
>>=20
>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>=20
>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own =
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common =
use case.
>>=20
>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove =
or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network =
design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>>=20
>> A.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the =
timing
>>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>>=20
>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from =
2020.
>>>=20
>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency =
consistently
>>> and latency symmetry.
>>>=20
>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does =
it
>>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or =
does
>>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>>=20
>>> - Stewart
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netslices mailing list
>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>=20
>=20
>    _______________________________________________
>    Netslices mailing list
>    Netslices@ietf.org
>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
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From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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On 20/06/2017 15:33, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
> 	Gert:
>
> 	I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases require a timing service to be available to it.
> I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specification.
.. and in some cases certified for regulatory reasons.
> However, aside from that
> there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encased within the
> slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requirement - running a bare metal
> version that is shared amongst all the slices, etcâ€¦ seems perfectly acceptable.

That is something we need to hear from the operators.

Stewart

>
> 	â€”Tom
>
>
>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>>
>> Daniele, Anton,
>>
>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>> 1) Is timing a service?
>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>>
>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Gert
>>
>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00
>>
>>
>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>     On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>> Hi Anton,
>>>
>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?
>>     There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The
>>     English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>>
>>     It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out than
>>     to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have jitter
>>     within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>>
>>     We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonable and
>>     unreasonable asks.
>>
>>     That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.
>>     There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>>     restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely between
>>     multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase of
>>     this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabled
>>     slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at the
>>     edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>>
>>     But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a
>>     network as you see fit".
>>
>>     A.
>>
>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>>
>>> BR
>>> Daniele
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov
>>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>>> To: netslices@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>
>>> Err...
>>>
>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>>
>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.
>>>
>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>>>
>>> A.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
>>>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>>>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>>>
>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.
>>>>
>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>>>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>>>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently
>>>> and latency symmetry.
>>>>
>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it
>>>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does
>>>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>>>
>>>> - Stewart
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netslices mailing list
>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Netslices mailing list
>>     Netslices@ietf.org
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 09:51:28 -0500
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To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
Cc: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>,  "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hi Tom,
while 5G and IIoT would require high accuracy of clock synchronization some
other applications of netslicing, I'd imagine, may have more relaxed
requirements. Relaxed to the level that may not require use of 1588 but be
sufficiently fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, may be part of netslice.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
wrote:

>
>         Gert:
>
>         I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases requir=
e
> a timing service to be available to it.
> I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some
> specification.  However, aside from that
> there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service
> encased within the
> slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a
> requirement - running a bare metal
> version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfect=
ly
> acceptable.
>
>         =E2=80=94Tom
>
>
> > On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net=
>
> wrote:
> >
> > Daniele, Anton,
> >
> > this discussion is basically asking two questions:
> > 1) Is timing a service?
> > 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
> >
> > In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that
> cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It
> is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled =
by
> default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be
> transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would
> not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could
> instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
> > So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be
> created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictati=
ng
> the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Gert
> >
> > P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00
> >
> >
> > On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <
> netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> >    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> >> Hi Anton,
> >>
> >> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need
> synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized
> network?
> >
> >    There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=
=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=
=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
> >    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
> >
> >    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out
> than
> >    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have jitt=
er
> >    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
> >
> >    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonable
> and
> >    unreasonable asks.
> >
> >    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole
> thing.
> >    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
> >    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely between
> >    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase =
of
> >    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync
> enabled
> >    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at
> the
> >    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
> >
> >    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a
> >    network as you see fit".
> >
> >    A.
> >
> >>
> >> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
> >>
> >> BR
> >> Daniele
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton
> Ivanov
> >> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
> >> To: netslices@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
> >>
> >> Err...
> >>
> >> What does it have to do with slicing?
> >>
> >> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own
> special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common us=
e
> case.
> >>
> >> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove o=
r
> test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design
> rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
> >>
> >> A.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
> >>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timin=
g
> >>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
> >>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
> >>>
> >>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020=
.
> >>>
> >>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
> >>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
> >>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistentl=
y
> >>> and latency symmetry.
> >>>
> >>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it
> >>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does
> >>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
> >>>
> >>> - Stewart
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Netslices mailing list
> >>> Netslices@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Netslices mailing list
> >> Netslices@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >>
> >
> >    _______________________________________________
> >    Netslices mailing list
> >    Netslices@ietf.org
> >    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Netslices mailing list
> > Netslices@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>

--001a113df76efc74f305526562ca
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tom,<div>while 5G and IIoT would require high accuracy =
of clock synchronization some other applications of netslicing, I&#39;d ima=
gine, may have more relaxed requirements. Relaxed to the level that may not=
 require use of 1588 but be sufficiently fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, may=
 be part of netslice.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg=C2=
=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On=
 Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Thomas Nadeau <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.c=
om</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gert:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicin=
g use cases require a timing service to be available to it.<br>
I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specification.=
=C2=A0 However, aside from that<br>
there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encased=
 within the<br>
slice.=C2=A0 In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requir=
ement - running a bare metal<br>
version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfectly=
 acceptable.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=94Tom<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; this discussion is basically asking two questions:<br>
&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that ca=
nnot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is =
reasonable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where timing capabilities are ena=
bled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to=
 be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client woul=
d not=C2=A0 require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could in=
stantiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set of timing enabled links.<br>
&gt; So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be crea=
ted avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the=
 fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Gert<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in <a href=3D"https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-king-=
teas-applicability-<wbr>actn-slicing-00</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.or=
g</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.=
ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a><wbr>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; wouldn&#39;t it be possible to have a scenario in which we need sy=
nchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized netwo=
rk?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is a very good Russian saying &quot;=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=
=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=
=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5&quot;. The<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 English equivalent is &quot;You cannot have your cake and=
 eat it too&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and sha=
re it out than<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays wil=
l have jitter<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are=
 reasonable and<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 unreasonable asks.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to t=
he whole thing.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is an open question of how to share (with all relev=
ant SLA<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restrictions) a common underlying time sync service secur=
ely between<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. O=
ne subcase of<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this may be (note the very big &quot;may&quot;) having ON=
E (just one) sync enabled<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan=
 it out at the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 edge to all consumers as a shared service.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But definitely not: &quot;Allocate as many time-sync enab=
led slices on a<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 network as you see fit&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this would make sense.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; BR<br>
&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.o=
rg">netslices-bounces@<wbr>ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov<br>
&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44<br>
&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own =
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use =
case.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, dispro=
ve or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network de=
sign rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; A.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that th=
e timing<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existi=
ng<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; systems (which in itself is a challenge).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected fr=
om 2020.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing services are different fro=
m the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; latency requirements of other services. They do not need minim=
um<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency cons=
istently<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; and latency symmetry.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. =
Does it<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, =
or does<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listin=
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&gt;&gt;<br>
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s" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>l=
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&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netsl=
ices</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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On 20/06/2017 11:57, Anton Ivanov wrote:
> There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The 
> English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".

Interestingly  Google thinks it says: "You can not embrace the vast", 
and every one of the internet language translators says something 
different but very similar.

S


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To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>,  Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>,  Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Hi Stewart, et. al,
obtaining SW timestamp even with 1588-synchronized clocks may become
congestion point that would affect clock quality for a slice. Thus, clock
may be considered resource shared by hosted netslices.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 20/06/2017 15:33, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>
>>         Gert:
>>
>>         I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases
>> require a timing service to be available to it.
>> I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specificatio=
n.
>>
> .. and in some cases certified for regulatory reasons.
>
>> However, aside from that
>> there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service
>> encased within the
>> slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a
>> requirement - running a bare metal
>> version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfec=
tly
>> acceptable.
>>
>
> That is something we need to hear from the operators.
>
> Stewart
>
>
>
>>         =E2=80=94Tom
>>
>>
>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Daniele, Anton,
>>>
>>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>>> 1) Is timing a service?
>>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>>>
>>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that
>>> cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). =
It
>>> is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enable=
d by
>>> default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be
>>> transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client woul=
d
>>> not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could
>>> instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
>>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be
>>> created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dicta=
ting
>>> the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Gert
>>>
>>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-ac
>>> tn-slicing-00
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <
>>> netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Anton,
>>>>
>>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need
>>>> synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronize=
d
>>>> network?
>>>>
>>>     There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=
=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=
=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
>>>     English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>>>
>>>     It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out
>>> than
>>>     to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have
>>> jitter
>>>     within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>>>
>>>     We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonabl=
e
>>> and
>>>     unreasonable asks.
>>>
>>>     That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole
>>> thing.
>>>     There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>>>     restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely betwee=
n
>>>     multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase
>>> of
>>>     this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync
>>> enabled
>>>     slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at
>>> the
>>>     edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>>>
>>>     But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a
>>>     network as you see fit".
>>>
>>>     A.
>>>
>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>>>
>>>> BR
>>>> Daniele
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton
>>>> Ivanov
>>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>>>> To: netslices@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>>
>>>> Err...
>>>>
>>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>>>
>>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own
>>>> special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common=
 use
>>>> case.
>>>>
>>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove o=
r
>>>> test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network des=
ign
>>>> rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>>>>
>>>> A.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timin=
g
>>>>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>>>>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>>>>
>>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020=
.
>>>>>
>>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>>>>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>>>>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistentl=
y
>>>>> and latency symmetry.
>>>>>
>>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it
>>>>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does
>>>>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Stewart
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     Netslices mailing list
>>>     Netslices@ietf.org
>>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netslices mailing list
>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Stewart, et. al,<div>obtaining SW timestamp even with 1=
588-synchronized clocks may become congestion point that would affect clock=
 quality for a slice. Thus, clock may be considered resource shared by host=
ed netslices.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 20=
17 at 9:47 AM, Stewart Bryant <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewa=
rt.bryant@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br>
<br>
On 20/06/2017 15:33, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gert:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicin=
g use cases require a timing service to be available to it.<br>
I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specification.<=
br>
</blockquote></span>
.. and in some cases certified for regulatory reasons.<span class=3D""><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
However, aside from that<br>
there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encased=
 within the<br>
slice.=C2=A0 In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requir=
ement - running a bare metal<br>
version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfectly=
 acceptable.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
That is something we need to hear from the operators.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"=
><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
Stewart</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=94Tom<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggr=
ammel@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
>
<br>
Daniele, Anton,<br>
<br>
this discussion is basically asking two questions:<br>
1) Is timing a service?<br>
2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<br>
<br>
In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that cannot =
be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is reaso=
nable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where timing capabilities are enabled =
by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be t=
ransported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would not=
=C2=A0 require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instant=
iate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set of timing enabled links.<br>
So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be created a=
voiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the fate=
, not the number of virtualized connections carried.<br>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
Gert<br>
<br>
P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in <a href=3D"https://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr<wbr>aft-king-teas-=
applicability-ac<wbr>tn-slicing-00</a><br>
<br>
<br>
On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netslices-bo=
unces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.=
co.uk" target=3D"_blank">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a><wbr>&gt; wrote:=
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Anton,<br>
<br>
wouldn&#39;t it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchroniza=
tion for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?<br>
</blockquote>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is a very good Russian saying &quot;=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=
=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=
=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5&quot;. The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 English equivalent is &quot;You cannot have your cake and eat=
 it too&quot;.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share i=
t out than<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will ha=
ve jitter<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are rea=
sonable and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 unreasonable asks.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the w=
hole thing.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant =
SLA<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely =
between<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One s=
ubcase of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this may be (note the very big &quot;may&quot;) having ONE (j=
ust one) sync enabled<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it =
out at the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 edge to all consumers as a shared service.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But definitely not: &quot;Allocate as many time-sync enabled =
slices on a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 network as you see fit&quot;.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Just asking myself it this would make sense.<br>
<br>
BR<br>
Daniele<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">netslices-bounces@ietf<wbr>.org</a>] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov=
<br>
Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netslices@ietf.=
org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
<br>
Err...<br>
<br>
What does it have to do with slicing?<br>
<br>
I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own special, =
different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.<br>
<br>
Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or tes=
t particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design rati=
onale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.<br>
<br>
A.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing<br>
requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing<br>
systems (which in itself is a challenge).<br>
<br>
They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
<br>
The latency requirements for timing services are different from the<br>
latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum<br>
latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently<br>
and latency symmetry.<br>
<br>
So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it<br>
go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does<br>
it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>
<br>
- Stewart<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Netslices@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Netslices@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Netslices mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Netsl=
ices@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>isti=
nfo/netslices</a><br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Netslices@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
</blockquote>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Netslices@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Netslices@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: thomas nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:04:55 -0400
Cc: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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> On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:47 AM, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 20/06/2017 15:33, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>>    Gert:
>>=20
>>    I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases require a t=
iming service to be available to it.
>> I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specification=
.
> .. and in some cases certified for regulatory reasons.
>> However, aside from that
>> there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encas=
ed within the
>> slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requireme=
nt - running a bare metal
>> version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfect=
ly acceptable.
>=20
> That is something we need to hear from the operators.
>=20
> Stewart

Correct. The point I was making is that until someone says something, it is n=
ot a requirement.

tom

>=20
>>=20
>>    =E2=80=94Tom
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>=
 wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Daniele, Anton,
>>>=20
>>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>>> 1) Is timing a service?
>>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>>>=20
>>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that cann=
ot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is rea=
sonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by defaul=
t on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported=
 on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would not  require t=
o dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a "slice" on=
 a set of timing enabled links.
>>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be create=
d avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the fa=
te, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>>>=20
>>> Thoughts?
>>>=20
>>> Gert
>>>=20
>>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in https://tools.ietf.=
org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <netslices-b=
ounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>> Hi Anton,
>>>>=20
>>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchroniza=
tion for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?
>>>    There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=
=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=
=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
>>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>>>=20
>>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out th=
an
>>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have jitte=
r
>>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>>>=20
>>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonable a=
nd
>>>    unreasonable asks.
>>>=20
>>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole thi=
ng.
>>>    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely between
>>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase o=
f
>>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync enab=
led
>>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at t=
he
>>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>>>=20
>>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a
>>>    network as you see fit".
>>>=20
>>>    A.
>>>=20
>>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>>>=20
>>>> BR
>>>> Daniele
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton I=
vanov
>>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>>>> To: netslices@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>>=20
>>>> Err...
>>>>=20
>>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>>>=20
>>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own speci=
al, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.
>>>>=20
>>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or=
 test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design r=
ationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>>>>=20
>>>> A.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing=

>>>>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>>>>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.=

>>>>>=20
>>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>>>>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>>>>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently=

>>>>> and latency symmetry.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it
>>>>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does
>>>>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> - Stewart
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>=20
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    Netslices mailing list
>>>    Netslices@ietf.org
>>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netslices mailing list
>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:05:56 -0400
Cc: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Then why not just use the operator's likely already functional NTP service?

tom
=20

> On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Tom,
> while 5G and IIoT would require high accuracy of clock synchronization som=
e other applications of netslicing, I'd imagine, may have more relaxed requi=
rements. Relaxed to the level that may not require use of 1588 but be suffic=
iently fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, may be part of netslice.
>=20
> Regards,
> Greg=20
>=20
>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> w=
rote:
>>=20
>>         Gert:
>>=20
>>         I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases requir=
e a timing service to be available to it.
>> I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specification=
.  However, aside from that
>> there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encas=
ed within the
>> slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requireme=
nt - running a bare metal
>> version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfect=
ly acceptable.
>>=20
>>         =E2=80=94Tom
>>=20
>>=20
>> > On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net=
> wrote:
>> >
>> > Daniele, Anton,
>> >
>> > this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>> > 1) Is timing a service?
>> > 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>> >
>> > In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that can=
not be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is re=
asonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by defau=
lt on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transporte=
d on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would not  require t=
o dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a "slice" on=
 a set of timing enabled links.
>> > So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be creat=
ed avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the f=
ate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> > Gert
>> >
>> > P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <netslices-=
bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>> >> Hi Anton,
>> >>
>> >> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchroniz=
ation for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?
>> >
>> >    There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=
=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=
=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
>> >    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>> >
>> >    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out t=
han
>> >    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have jitt=
er
>> >    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>> >
>> >    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonable=
 and
>> >    unreasonable asks.
>> >
>> >    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole th=
ing.
>> >    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>> >    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely between=

>> >    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase o=
f
>> >    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync ena=
bled
>> >    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at t=
he
>> >    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>> >
>> >    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a
>> >    network as you see fit".
>> >
>> >    A.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>> >>
>> >> BR
>> >> Daniele
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton=
 Ivanov
>> >> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>> >> To: netslices@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>> >>
>> >> Err...
>> >>
>> >> What does it have to do with slicing?
>> >>
>> >> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own spec=
ial, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.=

>> >>
>> >> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove o=
r test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design r=
ationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>> >>
>> >> A.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>> >>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timin=
g
>> >>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>> >>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>> >>>
>> >>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020=
.
>> >>>
>> >>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>> >>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>> >>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistentl=
y
>> >>> and latency symmetry.
>> >>>
>> >>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it=

>> >>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does=

>> >>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>> >>>
>> >>> - Stewart
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Netslices mailing list
>> >>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Netslices mailing list
>> >> Netslices@ietf.org
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>> >>
>> >
>> >    _______________________________________________
>> >    Netslices mailing list
>> >    Netslices@ietf.org
>> >    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Netslices mailing list
>> > Netslices@ietf.org
>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div></div><div>Then why not just use the o=
perator's likely already functional NTP service?</div><div><br></div><div>to=
m</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br>On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Greg Mirsky &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tom,<di=
v>while 5G and IIoT would require high accuracy of clock synchronization som=
e other applications of netslicing, I'd imagine, may have more relaxed requi=
rements. Relaxed to the level that may not require use of 1588 but be suffic=
iently fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, may be part of netslice.</div><div><br=
></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg&nbsp;</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Thomas N=
adeau <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex"><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Gert:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing=
 use cases require a timing service to be available to it.<br>
I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specification.&n=
bsp; However, aside from that<br>
there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encased w=
ithin the<br>
slice.&nbsp; In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a require=
ment - running a bare metal<br>
version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfectly a=
cceptable.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =E2=80=94Tom<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; this discussion is basically asking two questions:<br>
&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that can=
not be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is re=
asonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by defau=
lt on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transporte=
d on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would not&nbsp; req=
uire to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a "sli=
ce" on a set of timing enabled links.<br>
&gt; So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be creat=
ed avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the f=
ate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Gert<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in <a href=3D"https:/=
/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-king-tea=
s-applicability-<wbr>actn-slicing-00</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a> on beh=
alf of <a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-be=
gemot.co.uk</a><wbr>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchro=
nization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=
=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=
=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat i=
t too".<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and shar=
e it out than<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will=
 have jitter<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are r=
easonable and<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; unreasonable asks.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to th=
e whole thing.<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is an open question of how to share (with all releva=
nt SLA<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; restrictions) a common underlying time sync service secure=
ly between<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. On=
e subcase of<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one=
) sync enabled<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan i=
t out at the<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; edge to all consumers as a shared service.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled sl=
ices on a<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; network as you see fit".<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; A.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this would make sense.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; BR<br>
&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.or=
g">netslices-bounces@<wbr>ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov<br>
&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44<br>
&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><br=
>
&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own s=
pecial, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use ca=
se.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprov=
e or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network desi=
gn rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; A.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the=
 timing<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existin=
g<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; systems (which in itself is a challenge).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected fro=
m 2020.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing services are different from=
 the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimu=
m<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consi=
stently<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; and latency symmetry.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. D=
oes it<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, o=
r does<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br=
>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo=
/netslices</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"=
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/net=
slices</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</=
a><br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>lis=
tinfo/netslices</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslic=
es</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices</a=
><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>Netslices mailing list</span><br=
><span><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a></span><b=
r><span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a></span><br></div></blockquote></b=
ody></html>=

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References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <a06982f6-f21f-5523-af5e-2f7ff7a17fff@kot-begemot.co.uk> <AM2PR07MB099405BDCFDC45CA5E8B904DF0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk> <14b54541-3768-a874-fcfd-40ddb6fa366e@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Slavic languages have a lot of colloquialisms and implied meanings that are n=
ot easily translated directly. ;)

tom=20

> On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:55 AM, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 20/06/2017 11:57, Anton Ivanov wrote:
>> There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F=
 =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=
=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake=
 and eat it too".
>=20
> Interestingly  Google thinks it says: "You can not embrace the vast", and e=
very one of the internet language translators says something different but v=
ery similar.
>=20
> S
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:17:48 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmWzytfo8UN6+QXUVioi8LvtBGid5poJAWd3k2HO+Yjk-w@mail.gmail.com>
To: thomas nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
Cc: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>,  "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/ky8bl7bJvxmsPR-2_DtDkrgHL20>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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AFAIK, NTP still cannot achieve 1588 quality of clock synchronization.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:05 AM, thomas nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
wrote:

> Then why not just use the operator's likely already functional NTP servic=
e?
>
> tom
>
>
> On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
> while 5G and IIoT would require high accuracy of clock synchronization
> some other applications of netslicing, I'd imagine, may have more relaxed
> requirements. Relaxed to the level that may not require use of 1588 but b=
e
> sufficiently fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, may be part of netslice.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>         Gert:
>>
>>         I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases
>> require a timing service to be available to it.
>> I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some
>> specification.  However, aside from that
>> there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service
>> encased within the
>> slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a
>> requirement - running a bare metal
>> version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfec=
tly
>> acceptable.
>>
>>         =E2=80=94Tom
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.ne=
t>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Daniele, Anton,
>> >
>> > this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>> > 1) Is timing a service?
>> > 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>> >
>> > In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that
>> cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). I=
t
>> is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled=
 by
>> default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be
>> transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would
>> not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could
>> instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
>> > So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be
>> created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictat=
ing
>> the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> > Gert
>> >
>> > P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-0=
0
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <
>> netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>> >> Hi Anton,
>> >>
>> >> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need
>> synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized
>> network?
>> >
>> >    There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=
=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=
=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
>> >    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>> >
>> >    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out
>> than
>> >    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have
>> jitter
>> >    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>> >
>> >    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonabl=
e
>> and
>> >    unreasonable asks.
>> >
>> >    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole
>> thing.
>> >    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>> >    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely betwee=
n
>> >    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase
>> of
>> >    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync
>> enabled
>> >    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at
>> the
>> >    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>> >
>> >    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a
>> >    network as you see fit".
>> >
>> >    A.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>> >>
>> >> BR
>> >> Daniele
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>> Anton Ivanov
>> >> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>> >> To: netslices@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>> >>
>> >> Err...
>> >>
>> >> What does it have to do with slicing?
>> >>
>> >> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own
>> special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common u=
se
>> case.
>> >>
>> >> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove
>> or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network
>> design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>> >>
>> >> A.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>> >>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timi=
ng
>> >>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>> >>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>> >>>
>> >>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 202=
0.
>> >>>
>> >>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>> >>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>> >>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistent=
ly
>> >>> and latency symmetry.
>> >>>
>> >>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does i=
t
>> >>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or doe=
s
>> >>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>> >>>
>> >>> - Stewart
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Netslices mailing list
>> >>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Netslices mailing list
>> >> Netslices@ietf.org
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>> >>
>> >
>> >    _______________________________________________
>> >    Netslices mailing list
>> >    Netslices@ietf.org
>> >    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Netslices mailing list
>> > Netslices@ietf.org
>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
>

--001a11c0478c279e18055265c166
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">AFAIK, NTP still cannot achieve 1588 quality of clock sync=
hronization.<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 1=
0:05 AM, thomas nadeau <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@luci=
dvision.com" target=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div></div><div>Then =
why not just use the operator&#39;s likely already functional NTP service?<=
/div><div><br></div><div>tom</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div>=C2=A0</div><=
div><br>On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gre=
gimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tom,<div>wh=
ile 5G and IIoT would require high accuracy of clock synchronization some o=
ther applications of netslicing, I&#39;d imagine, may have more relaxed req=
uirements. Relaxed to the level that may not require use of 1588 but be suf=
ficiently fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, may be part of netslice.</div><div=
><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Th=
omas Nadeau <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com=
" target=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gert:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicin=
g use cases require a timing service to be available to it.<br>
I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specification.=
=C2=A0 However, aside from that<br>
there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encased=
 within the<br>
slice.=C2=A0 In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requir=
ement - running a bare metal<br>
version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfectly=
 acceptable.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=94Tom<br>
<div class=3D"m_-3357935253300368609HOEnZb"><div class=3D"m_-33579352533003=
68609h5"><br>
<br>
&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ggrammel@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; this discussion is basically asking two questions:<br>
&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that ca=
nnot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is =
reasonable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where timing capabilities are ena=
bled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to=
 be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client woul=
d not=C2=A0 require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could in=
stantiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set of timing enabled links.<br>
&gt; So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be crea=
ted avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the=
 fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Gert<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in <a href=3D"https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr<wbr>aft-king-=
teas-applicability-ac<wbr>tn-slicing-00</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netslic=
es-bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-beg=
emot.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a><wbr>&gt; w=
rote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; wouldn&#39;t it be possible to have a scenario in which we need sy=
nchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized netwo=
rk?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is a very good Russian saying &quot;=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=
=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=
=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5&quot;. The<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 English equivalent is &quot;You cannot have your cake and=
 eat it too&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and sha=
re it out than<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays wil=
l have jitter<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are=
 reasonable and<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 unreasonable asks.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to t=
he whole thing.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is an open question of how to share (with all relev=
ant SLA<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restrictions) a common underlying time sync service secur=
ely between<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. O=
ne subcase of<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this may be (note the very big &quot;may&quot;) having ON=
E (just one) sync enabled<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan=
 it out at the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 edge to all consumers as a shared service.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But definitely not: &quot;Allocate as many time-sync enab=
led slices on a<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 network as you see fit&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this would make sense.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; BR<br>
&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">netslices-bounces@ietf<wbr>.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ant=
on Ivanov<br>
&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44<br>
&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netsli=
ces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own =
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use =
case.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, dispro=
ve or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network de=
sign rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; A.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that th=
e timing<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existi=
ng<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; systems (which in itself is a challenge).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected fr=
om 2020.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing services are different fro=
m the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; latency requirements of other services. They do not need minim=
um<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency cons=
istently<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; and latency symmetry.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. =
Does it<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, =
or does<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Netsli=
ces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istin=
fo/netslices</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Netslices@=
ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/n=
etslices</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">N=
etslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslice=
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:19:12 -0500
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To: thomas nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Network Slices <netslices@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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But this is not the case. Automated translation is pretty close to the
original.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:07 AM, thomas nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
wrote:

> Slavic languages have a lot of colloquialisms and implied meanings that
> are not easily translated directly. ;)
>
> tom
>
> > On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:55 AM, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 20/06/2017 11:57, Anton Ivanov wrote:
> >> There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=
=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=
=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
> English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
> >
> > Interestingly  Google thinks it says: "You can not embrace the vast",
> and every one of the internet language translators says something differe=
nt
> but very similar.
> >
> > S
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Netslices mailing list
> > Netslices@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">But this is not the case. Automated translation is pretty =
close to the original.<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20,=
 2017 at 10:07 AM, thomas nadeau <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tn=
adeau@lucidvision.com" target=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Slavic languages have a lot o=
f colloquialisms and implied meanings that are not easily translated direct=
ly. ;)<br>
<br>
tom<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt; On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:55 AM, Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 20/06/2017 11:57, Anton Ivanov wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; There is a very good Russian saying &quot;=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=
=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=
=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5&quot;. The English equivalent is &quot=
;You cannot have your cake and eat it too&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Interestingly=C2=A0 Google thinks it says: &quot;You can not embrace t=
he vast&quot;, and every one of the internet language translators says some=
thing different but very similar.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; S<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
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eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netsl=
ices</a><br>
<br>
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/a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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	Then use their existing 1588 service.

	=E2=80=94Tom


> On Jun 20, 2017:11:17 AM, at 11:17 AM, Greg Mirsky =
<gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> AFAIK, NTP still cannot achieve 1588 quality of clock synchronization.
>=20
> Regards,
> Greg
>=20
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:05 AM, thomas nadeau =
<tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>> wrote:
> Then why not just use the operator's likely already functional NTP =
service?
>=20
> tom
> =20
>=20
> On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com =
<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>> wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Tom,
>> while 5G and IIoT would require high accuracy of clock =
synchronization some other applications of netslicing, I'd imagine, may =
have more relaxed requirements. Relaxed to the level that may not =
require use of 1588 but be sufficiently fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, =
may be part of netslice.
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Greg=20
>>=20
>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Thomas Nadeau =
<tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>> wrote:
>>=20
>>         Gert:
>>=20
>>         I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases =
require a timing service to be available to it.
>> I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some =
specification.  However, aside from that
>> there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service =
encased within the
>> slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a =
requirement - running a bare metal
>> version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems =
perfectly acceptable.
>>=20
>>         =E2=80=94Tom
>>=20
>>=20
>> > On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Daniele, Anton,
>> >
>> > this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>> > 1) Is timing a service?
>> > 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>> >
>> > In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that =
cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). =
It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are =
enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY =
need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a =
client would not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but =
could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
>> > So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be =
created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology =
dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> > Gert
>> >
>> > P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00=
>
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" =
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on =
behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk =
<mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>> wrote:
>> >
>> >    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>> >> Hi Anton,
>> >>
>> >> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need =
synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized =
network?
>> >
>> >    There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=
=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=
=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
>> >    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it =
too".
>> >
>> >    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it =
out than
>> >    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have =
jitter
>> >    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>> >
>> >    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are =
reasonable and
>> >    unreasonable asks.
>> >
>> >    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the =
whole thing.
>> >    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>> >    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely =
between
>> >    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One =
subcase of
>> >    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync =
enabled
>> >    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out =
at the
>> >    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>> >
>> >    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices =
on a
>> >    network as you see fit".
>> >
>> >    A.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>> >>
>> >> BR
>> >> Daniele
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov
>> >> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>> >> To: netslices@ietf.org <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>> >>
>> >> Err...
>> >>
>> >> What does it have to do with slicing?
>> >>
>> >> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own =
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common =
use case.
>> >>
>> >> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, =
disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the =
network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near =
requirements.
>> >>
>> >> A.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>> >>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the =
timing
>> >>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>> >>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>> >>>
>> >>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from =
2020.
>> >>>
>> >>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from =
the
>> >>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>> >>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency =
consistently
>> >>> and latency symmetry.
>> >>>
>> >>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. =
Does it
>> >>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or =
does
>> >>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>> >>>
>> >>> - Stewart
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Netslices mailing list
>> >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Netslices mailing list
>> >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>> >>
>> >
>> >    _______________________________________________
>> >    Netslices mailing list
>> >    Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>> >    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Netslices mailing list
>> > Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_4C3D2414-FE83-40C7-9920-7504267739B4
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Then use =
their existing 1588 service.<div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>=E2=80=94Tom</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Jun 20, 2017:11:17 AM, at 11:17 AM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">AFAIK, NTP still cannot achieve 1588 quality of clock =
synchronization.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Greg</div></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, =
Jun 20, 2017 at 10:05 AM, thomas nadeau <span dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Then why not just use =
the operator's likely already functional NTP service?</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">tom</div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Greg Mirsky =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Hi Tom,<div class=3D"">while 5G and IIoT would =
require high accuracy of clock synchronization some other applications =
of netslicing, I'd imagine, may have more relaxed requirements. Relaxed =
to the level that may not require use of 1588 but be sufficiently =
fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, may be part of netslice.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regards,</div><div =
class=3D"">Greg&nbsp;</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, =
Thomas Nadeau <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Gert:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think its a bit simpler than that. The =
slicing use cases require a timing service to be available to it.<br =
class=3D"">
I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some =
specification.&nbsp; However, aside from that<br class=3D"">
there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service =
encased within the<br class=3D"">
slice.&nbsp; In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a =
requirement - running a bare metal<br class=3D"">
version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems =
perfectly acceptable.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =E2=80=94Tom<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"m_-3357935253300368609HOEnZb"><div =
class=3D"m_-3357935253300368609h5"><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt; this discussion is basically asking two questions:<br class=3D"">
&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br class=3D"">
&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that =
cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). =
It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are =
enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY =
need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a =
client would not&nbsp; require to dynamically instantiate timing on =
links but could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled =
links.<br class=3D"">
&gt; So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be =
created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology =
dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections =
carried.<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt; Thoughts?<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt; Gert<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-sli=
cing-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr<wbr =
class=3D"">aft-king-teas-applicability-ac<wbr =
class=3D"">tn-slicing-00</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a =
href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a><wbr class=3D"">&gt; =
wrote:<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<br =
class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need =
synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized =
network?<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=
=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =
=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The<br =
class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and =
eat it too".<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and =
share it out than<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays =
will have jitter<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.<br =
class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There =
are reasonable and<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; unreasonable asks.<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect =
to the whole thing.<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is an open question of how to share (with all =
relevant SLA<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; restrictions) a common underlying time sync service =
securely between<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; multiple slices and what can be the precision for =
that. One subcase of<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just =
one) sync enabled<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we =
fan it out at the<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; edge to all consumers as a shared service.<br =
class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync =
enabled slices on a<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; network as you see fit".<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; A.<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this would make sense.<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; BR<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; Daniele<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">netslices-bounces@ietf<wbr class=3D"">.org</a>] On Behalf Of =
Anton Ivanov<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">netslices@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; Err...<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its =
own special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a =
common use case.<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, =
disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the =
network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near =
requirements.<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; A.<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that =
the timing<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for =
existing<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; systems (which in itself is a challenge).<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected =
from 2020.<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing services are different =
from the<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; latency requirements of other services. They do not need =
minimum<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency =
consistently<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; and latency symmetry.<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we transmit the timing =
service. Does it<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the =
NSI, or does<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple =
slices?<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr =
class=3D"">_________________<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr =
class=3D"">istinfo/netslices</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr =
class=3D"">_________________<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr =
class=3D"">istinfo/netslices</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; ______________________________<wbr =
class=3D"">_________________<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Netslices mailing list<br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr =
class=3D"">istinfo/netslices</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
&gt; ______________________________<wbr class=3D"">_________________<br =
class=3D"">
&gt; Netslices mailing list<br class=3D"">
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr =
class=3D"">istinfo/netslices</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
______________________________<wbr class=3D"">_________________<br =
class=3D"">
Netslices mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr =
class=3D"">istinfo/netslices</a><br class=3D"">
</div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">______________________________<wbr =
class=3D"">_________________</span><br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">Netslices mailing list</span><br class=3D""><span class=3D""><a=
 href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">Netslices@ietf.org</a></span><br class=3D""><span class=3D""><a=
 href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr =
class=3D"">listinfo/netslices</a></span><br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
To: thomas nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
CC: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
Thread-Index: AQHS5pIlxRc6trz6Jk67e3VUP0LFuaIthnkAgAAKlICAAAnZAIAAPcCA///+kgCAAAPcgIAABO6AgAA2goA=
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:20:01 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/FV3BuuWd4GcmOgEWINPTmrGzvS8>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:02:01 -0400
Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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	I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement then. =
8)

	=E2=80=94Tom

> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>=20
> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually asking to =
build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be left to the =
underlying physical layer: "=E2=80=A6 timing accuracy is an attribute of =
a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=E2=80=A6". If =
my reading is correct, we seem to share that view.
> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that support a =
given timing requirement if that constraint was given. =20
>=20
> Gert
>=20
> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau" =
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>    	Gert:
>=20
>    	I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases =
require a timing service to be available to it.
>    I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some =
specification.  However, aside from that
>    there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service =
encased within the
>    slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a =
requirement - running a bare metal
>    version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems =
perfectly acceptable. =20
>=20
>    	=E2=80=94Tom
>=20
>=20
>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>>=20
>> Daniele, Anton,
>>=20
>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>> 1) Is timing a service?
>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>>=20
>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that =
cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). =
It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are =
enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY =
need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a =
client would not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but =
could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.=20
>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be =
created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology =
dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>>=20
>> Thoughts?
>>=20
>> Gert
>>=20
>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00=20=

>>=20
>>=20
>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" =
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>   On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>> Hi Anton,
>>>=20
>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need =
synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized =
network?
>>=20
>>   There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=
=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=
=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The=20
>>   English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>>=20
>>   It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out =
than=20
>>   to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have =
jitter=20
>>   within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>>=20
>>   We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are =
reasonable and=20
>>   unreasonable asks.
>>=20
>>   That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole =
thing.=20
>>   There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA=20
>>   restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely =
between=20
>>   multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase =
of=20
>>   this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync =
enabled=20
>>   slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at =
the=20
>>   edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>>=20
>>   But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a=20=

>>   network as you see fit".
>>=20
>>   A.
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>>=20
>>> BR
>>> Daniele
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Anton Ivanov
>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>>> To: netslices@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>=20
>>> Err...
>>>=20
>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>>=20
>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own =
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common =
use case.
>>>=20
>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove =
or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network =
design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>>>=20
>>> A.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the =
timing
>>>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>>>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>>>=20
>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from =
2020.
>>>>=20
>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>>>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>>>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency =
consistently
>>>> and latency symmetry.
>>>>=20
>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does =
it
>>>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or =
does
>>>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>>>=20
>>>> - Stewart
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netslices mailing list
>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>=20
>>=20
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   Netslices mailing list
>>   Netslices@ietf.org
>>   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>=20
>    _______________________________________________
>    Netslices mailing list
>    Netslices@ietf.org
>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:02:26 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <194351AF-402C-408E-813F-422741EA50D0@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <a06982f6-f21f-5523-af5e-2f7ff7a17fff@kot-begemot.co.uk> <AM2PR07MB099405BDCFDC45CA5E8B904DF0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk> <908AE48F-E320-4049-97DE-8C61E929C31F@juniper.net> <1CC049B7-4E32-46BA-97C8-591482135694@lucidvision.com> <CA+RyBmVJ68vNG1_S0o6qPrsF=SOmCHkP3vF_x2NvfotcQyJniQ@mail.gmail.com> <AM2PR07MB0994A8F199597FE95ACC7A07F0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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+1

=20

There=E2=80=99s no reason (nor technical, neither business) to provide timing per=
 slice.

It should be provided as part of infrastructure, similar to basic connectiv=
ity.=20

=20

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

=20

=20

From: Netslices <netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Daniele Ceccarell=
i <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 08:04
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision=
.com>
Cc: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-beg=
emot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service

=20

I agree with Greg and with what Anton said before.

=20

I expect synchronization to be provided by the underlying network. If so an=
y slice can use it. If it is not so it MAY be possible to provide synchroniz=
ation on top of the underlying network (in some way, and which will have obv=
iously worse performances) on a per slice basis. Since it was not provided b=
y the network I don=E2=80=99t expect many slices to need it nor to need super high=
 performances, otherwise the network was not properly designed.

=20

BR
Daniele =20

=20

From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]=20
Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 16:51
To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
Cc: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>; Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-beg=
emot.co.uk>; netslices@ietf.org; Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@eric=
sson.com>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service

=20

Hi Tom,

while 5G and IIoT would require high accuracy of clock synchronization some=
 other applications of netslicing, I'd imagine, may have more relaxed requir=
ements. Relaxed to the level that may not require use of 1588 but be suffici=
ently fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, may be part of netslice.

=20

Regards,

Greg=20

=20

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wr=
ote:


        Gert:

        I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases require =
a timing service to be available to it.
I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specification. =
 However, aside from that
there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encased=
 within the
slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requirement=
 - running a bare metal
version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfectly accep=
table.

        =E2=80=94Tom



> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net> =
wrote:
>
> Daniele, Anton,
>
> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
> 1) Is timing a service?
> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>
> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that canno=
t be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is reas=
onable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by default=
 on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported =
on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would not  require to=
 dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a "slice" on =
a set of timing enabled links.
> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be created=
 avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the fat=
e, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Gert
>
> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00
>
>
> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <netslices-bo=
unces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> wrote:
>
>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>> Hi Anton,
>>
>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchronizat=
ion for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?
>
>    There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=
=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>
>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out tha=
n
>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have jitter
>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>
>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonable a=
nd
>    unreasonable asks.
>
>    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole thin=
g.
>    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely between
>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase of
>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabl=
ed
>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at th=
e
>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>
>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a
>    network as you see fit".
>
>    A.
>
>>
>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>
>> BR
>> Daniele
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton I=
vanov
>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>> To: netslices@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>
>> Err...
>>
>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>
>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own specia=
l, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.
>>
>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or =
test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design ra=
tionale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>>
>> A.
>>
>>
>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
>>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>>
>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.
>>>
>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently
>>> and latency symmetry.
>>>
>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it
>>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does
>>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>>
>>> - Stewart
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netslices mailing list
>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    Netslices mailing list
>    Netslices@ietf.org
>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

=20

_______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Nets=
lices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices=20


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--></style></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><di=
v class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri'>+1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>There&#8217;s no reas=
on (nor technical, neither business) to provide timing per slice.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Cali=
bri'>It should be provided as part of infrastructure, similar to basic conne=
ctivity. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:Calibri;color:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Jeff<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Ca=
libri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:=
none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'>From: </span></b><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Netslices=
 &lt;netslices-bounces@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;dani=
ele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 08=
:04<br><b>To: </b>Greg Mirsky &lt;gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;, Thomas Nadeau &=
lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Gert Grammel &lt;ggrammel@junip=
er.net&gt;, Anton Ivanov &lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;, &quot;netsl=
ices@ietf.org&quot; &lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Netsl=
ices] Timing service<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ma=
rgin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>I agree w=
ith Greg and with what Anton said before.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in=
'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>I expect synchronizatio=
n to be provided by the underlying network. If so any slice can use it. If i=
t is not so it MAY be possible to provide synchronization on top of the unde=
rlying network (in some way, and which will have obviously worse performance=
s) on a per slice basis. Since it was not provided by the network I don&#821=
7;t expect many slices to need it nor to need super high performances, other=
wise the network was not properly designed.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:C=
alibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5=
in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>BR<br>Daniele&nbsp; <=
/span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:71.4pt'><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:Calibri'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Ca=
libri'> Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> marted=C3=AC=
 20 giugno 2017 16:51</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:PMingL=
iU'><br></span><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>To:</sp=
an></b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'> Thomas Nadeau &lt=
;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Gert Grammel &lt;ggrammel@juniper=
.net&gt;; Anton Ivanov &lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;; netslices@iet=
f.org; Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;<br><b>Subj=
ect:</b> Re: [Netslices] Timing service</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'margin-left:71.4pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:71.4pt'>Hi Tom,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'margin-left:71.4pt'>while 5G and IIoT would require high accuracy of clo=
ck synchronization some other applications of netslicing, I'd imagine, may h=
ave more relaxed requirements. Relaxed to the level that may not require use=
 of 1588 but be sufficiently fulfilled by NTP. And NTP may, may be part of n=
etslice.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:71.4=
pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:71=
.4pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-lef=
t:71.4pt'>Greg&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'margin-left:71.4pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ma=
rgin-left:71.4pt'>On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;m=
argin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:7=
1.4pt'><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Gert:<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases require a tim=
ing service to be available to it.<br>I assume that service must be accurate=
 and reliable to some specification.&nbsp; However, aside from that<br>there=
 does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encased withi=
n the<br>slice.&nbsp; In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not =
a requirement - running a bare metal<br>version that is shared amongst all t=
he slices, etc&#8230; seems perfectly acceptable.<span style=3D'font-family:PM=
ingLiU'><br><br></span>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &#8212;Tom<o:p></o:p></p>=
<div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:71.4pt'><br><br>&gt; On Jun =
20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juni=
per.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Daniele, Anton,=
<br>&gt;<br>&gt; this discussion is basically asking two questions:<br>&gt; =
1) Is timing a service?<br>&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<br=
>&gt;<br>&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer=
 that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing).=
 It is reasonable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where timing capabilities a=
re enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY ne=
ed to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client =
would not&nbsp; require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could=
 instantiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set of timing enabled links.<br>&gt; S=
o it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be created avo=
iding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the fate, n=
ot the number of virtualized connections carried.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Thoughts?<=
br>&gt;<br>&gt; Gert<br>&gt;<br>&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like=
 described in <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicabi=
lity-actn-slicing-00" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king=
-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00</a><br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; On 2017-06-2=
0, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a=
 href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Cecc=
arelli wrote:<br>&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be p=
ossible to have a scenario in which we need synchronization for a slice whic=
h is built on top of a non synchronized network?<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp=
; There is a very good Russian saying &quot;=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=
=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5&quot;. The<span style=3D'font-family:PMingLiU'><br></span>&gt;&=
nbsp; &nbsp; English equivalent is &quot;You cannot have your cake and eat i=
t too&quot;.<span style=3D'font-family:PMingLiU'><br></span>&gt;<span style=3D'f=
ont-family:PMingLiU'><br></span>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; It is easier to implement =
sync at the lower layer and share it out than<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; to guaran=
tee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have jitter<br>&gt;&nbsp; =
&nbsp; within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nb=
sp; &nbsp; We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasona=
ble and<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; unreasonable asks.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;=
 That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br=
>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is an open question of how to share (with all relev=
ant SLA<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; restrictions) a common underlying time sync ser=
vice securely between<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; multiple slices and what can be t=
he precision for that. One subcase of<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; this may be (note=
 the very big &quot;may&quot;) having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>&gt;&nb=
sp; &nbsp; slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out =
at the<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; edge to all consumers as a shared service.<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; But definitely not: &quot;Allocate as many time-sync=
 enabled slices on a<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; network as you see fit&quot;.<br>&=
gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; A.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Just asking myse=
lf it this would make sense.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; BR<br>&gt;&gt; Daniele<=
br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt;&gt; From: Netslic=
es [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@iet=
f.org</a>] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov<br>&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 20=
17 11:44<span style=3D'font-family:PMingLiU'><br></span>&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"=
mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [=
Netslices] Timing service<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Err...<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=
&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; I do not =
see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own special, different =
from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.<br>&gt;&gt;<br=
>&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, dispro=
ve or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network des=
ign rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.<br>&gt;&=
gt;<br>&gt;&gt; A.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, St=
ewart Bryant wrote:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it=
 was explained that the timing<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; requirements for 5G are even =
stricter than they are for existing<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; systems (which in itself=
 is a challenge).<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200=
ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 The latency requirements for timing services are different from the<br>&gt;=
&gt;&gt; latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum<br=
>&gt;&gt;&gt; latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency cons=
istently<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; and latency symmetry.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&g=
t; So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it<br>=
&gt;&gt;&gt; go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, o=
r does<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple sl=
ices?<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&=
gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslice=
s mailing list<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices=
@ietf.org</a><br>&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo=
/netslices" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; ____________________________________________=
___<br>&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices=
@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/netslices" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/netslices</a><br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; _______________=
________________________________<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Netslices mailing list=
<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org=
</a><br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net=
slices" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><=
br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&=
gt; Netslices mailing list<br>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netsl=
ices@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net=
slices" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><=
br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Netslices mailing =
list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" target=3D"_blank">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></bloc=
kquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:71.4pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p>=
</p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>______________________=
_________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>

--B_3580801347_1225861677--



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To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:06:39 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided by the 
fabric to a slice if needed.

I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, and people 
are beginning not to trust GPS.

- Stewart

On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
> 	I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement then. 8)
>
> 	â€”Tom
>
>> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>>
>> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be left to the underlying physical layer: "â€¦ timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If my reading is correct, we seem to share that view.
>> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that support a given timing requirement if that constraint was given.
>>
>> Gert
>>
>> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     	Gert:
>>
>>     	I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases require a timing service to be available to it.
>>     I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some specification.  However, aside from that
>>     there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that service encased within the
>>     slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requirement - running a bare metal
>>     version that is shared amongst all the slices, etcâ€¦ seems perfectly acceptable.
>>
>>     	â€”Tom
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Daniele, Anton,
>>>
>>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>>> 1) Is timing a service?
>>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>>>
>>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
>>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Gert
>>>
>>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing-00
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>> Hi Anton,
>>>>
>>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?
>>>    There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The
>>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>>>
>>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out than
>>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have jitter
>>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>>>
>>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are reasonable and
>>>    unreasonable asks.
>>>
>>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.
>>>    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely between
>>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcase of
>>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabled
>>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out at the
>>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>>>
>>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a
>>>    network as you see fit".
>>>
>>>    A.
>>>
>>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>>>
>>>> BR
>>>> Daniele
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Anton Ivanov
>>>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>>>> To: netslices@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>>
>>>> Err...
>>>>
>>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>>>
>>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.
>>>>
>>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>>>>
>>>> A.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the timing
>>>>> requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for existing
>>>>> systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>>>>
>>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.
>>>>>
>>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from the
>>>>> latency requirements of other services. They do not need minimum
>>>>> latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency consistently
>>>>> and latency symmetry.
>>>>>
>>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does it
>>>>> go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI, or does
>>>>> it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Stewart
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    Netslices mailing list
>>>    Netslices@ietf.org
>>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netslices mailing list
>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Netslices mailing list
>>     Netslices@ietf.org
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
CC: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
Thread-Index: AQHS5pIzGu+WBHDLpEGiPXJ5XRoVraItyYcAgAAKlICAAAnZAIAAHDmAgAAgGQCAACOIAIAABfmAgAASD4D//8casA==
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:52:03 +0000
Message-ID: <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325B92@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com>
References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <a06982f6-f21f-5523-af5e-2f7ff7a17fff@kot-begemot.co.uk> <AM2PR07MB099405BDCFDC45CA5E8B904DF0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk> <908AE48F-E320-4049-97DE-8C61E929C31F@juniper.net> <1CC049B7-4E32-46BA-97C8-591482135694@lucidvision.com> <5E9B710B-7072-4FC3-98D5-FD019C38121A@juniper.net> <F8982121-9BC8-4CEA-95DE-D745A6BD2726@lucidvision.com> <ddb74f1f-c32b-805f-7d04-200c5831b6c5@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/XsM2PldxkQG41dHcEYPJ0x0PluI>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From nobody Tue Jun 20 12:54:24 2017
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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:54:04 +0000
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Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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> On Jun 20, 2017:2:52 PM, at 2:52 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter =
<Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com> wrote:
>=20
> The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents the timing =
to be its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical links, sources of =
grand master,  and who needs what levels of precision. It can compute =
where the boundary clocks go and establish primary and backup trees =
(disjoint MST's). So the mechanisms that are used to control slices can =
be used to control two bare metal timing 'slices=E2=80=99.

	True except for the reality of virtualization of such things.  =
The devil is in the details, and=20
more often than not, it is simpler and cheaper when you consider the =
total cost of operation to simply do=20
a bare metal deployment.  In this case, since NTP and 1588 have been =
functional for years in
a bare metal environment and will continue to do so, it just makes sense =
to me anyways, to focus
on other things than open this can of worms.

	=E2=80=94Tom


>=20
> Either that or have a completely different mechanism to manage them =
but there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to =
create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.
>=20
> Peter
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Stewart Bryant
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
> To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>; Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net>
> Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>; netslices@ietf.org; =
Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>=20
>=20
> Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided by the =
fabric to a slice if needed.
>=20
> I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, and people =
are beginning not to trust GPS.
>=20
> - Stewart
>=20
> On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>> 	I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement then. =
8)
>>=20
>> 	=E2=80=94Tom
>>=20
>>> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>>>=20
>>> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually asking to =
build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be left to the =
underlying physical layer: "=E2=80=A6 timing accuracy is an attribute of =
a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=E2=80=A6". If =
my reading is correct, we seem to share that view.
>>> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that support a =
given timing requirement if that constraint was given.
>>>=20
>>> Gert
>>>=20
>>> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau" =
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    	Gert:
>>>=20
>>>    	I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases =
require a timing service to be available to it.
>>>    I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some =
specification.  However, aside from that
>>>    there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that =
service encased within the
>>>    slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a =
requirement - running a bare metal
>>>    version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems =
perfectly acceptable.
>>>=20
>>>    	=E2=80=94Tom
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Daniele, Anton,
>>>>=20
>>>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>>>> 1) Is timing a service?
>>>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>>>>=20
>>>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that =
cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). =
It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are =
enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY =
need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a =
client would not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but =
could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
>>>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be =
created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology =
dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>=20
>>>> Gert
>>>>=20
>>>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in=20
>>>> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici
>>>> ng-00
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" =
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> =
wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>   On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>>> Hi Anton,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need =
synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized =
network?
>>>>   There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=
=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=
=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
>>>>   English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
>>>>=20
>>>>   It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it =
out than
>>>>   to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have =
jitter
>>>>   within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>>>>=20
>>>>   We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are =
reasonable and
>>>>   unreasonable asks.
>>>>=20
>>>>   That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole =
thing.
>>>>   There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
>>>>   restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely =
between
>>>>   multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One =
subcase of
>>>>   this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync =
enabled
>>>>   slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out =
at the
>>>>   edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>>>>=20
>>>>   But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on =
a
>>>>   network as you see fit".
>>>>=20
>>>>   A.
>>>>=20
>>>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> BR
>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20=

>>>>> Anton Ivanov
>>>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>>>>> To: netslices@ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Err...
>>>>>=20
>>>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own =
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common =
use case.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, =
disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the =
network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near =
requirements.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> A.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the=20=

>>>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for=20
>>>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from =
2020.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from=20=

>>>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They do not need=20
>>>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency=20=

>>>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. =
Does=20
>>>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI,=20=

>>>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple =
slices?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> - Stewart
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>>=20
>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>   Netslices mailing list
>>>>   Netslices@ietf.org
>>>>   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    Netslices mailing list
>>>    Netslices@ietf.org
>>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netslices mailing list
>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:03:19 -0500
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To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
Cc: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>,  Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>,  "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/lcRIFFgKC7_hX_gaAZElZLp3mhc>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hi Peter,
another consideration for network slicing may be scope of the network slice
domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale up than NTP
domain. It may be that certain quality of clock synchronization is indeed
physical property of the underlay.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter <
Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hey Gert,
>
> It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just offering it u=
p
> for discussion.
>
> The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the physical
> topology , the location of grand master clock sources and syncs and you
> have to compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need to configure all t=
he
> intermediate boundary clocks adjust any differential errors, master slave
> relationships and fallback behavior. You may also need to bring this into=
 a
> DC/CRAN and configure it to servers, radios etc.
>
> So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.
>
> The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does not make
> that much difference really and of course some normal (non-timing) slices
> would require physical resources possibly end to end.
>
> Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you need looks =
a
> lot like some of the functions of a slice orchestrator where the resultin=
g
> slice provides services to all the other slices.
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gert Grammel [mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM
> To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>; Stewart Bryant <
> stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
> Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>; netslices@ietf.org;
> Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
> Peter,
>
> Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?
> I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice" a bit too far.
>
> Gert
>
> On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter" <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
>     The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents the timin=
g
> to be its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical links, sources of
> grand master,  and who needs what levels of precision. It can compute whe=
re
> the boundary clocks go and establish primary and backup trees (disjoint
> MST's). So the mechanisms that are used to control slices can be used to
> control two bare metal timing 'slices'.
>
>     Either that or have a completely different mechanism to manage them
> but there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to
> create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.
>
>     Peter
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Stewart Bryant
>     Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
>     To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>; Gert Grammel <
> ggrammel@juniper.net>
>     Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>; netslices@ietf.org=
;
> Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
>     Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>
>     Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided by the
> fabric to a slice if needed.
>
>     I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, and people
> are beginning not to trust GPS.
>
>     - Stewart
>
>     On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>     >   I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement then. =
8)
>     >
>     >   =E2=80=94Tom
>     >
>     >> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel <
> ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>     >>
>     >> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually asking to
> build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be left to the
> underlying physical layer: "=E2=80=A6 timing accuracy is an attribute of =
a physical
> layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=E2=80=A6". If my reading =
is
> correct, we seem to share that view.
>     >> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that support
> a given timing requirement if that constraint was given.
>     >>
>     >> Gert
>     >>
>     >> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau" <
> netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>          Gert:
>     >>
>     >>          I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use case=
s
> require a timing service to be available to it.
>     >>     I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some
> specification.  However, aside from that
>     >>     there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that
> service encased within the
>     >>     slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not =
a
> requirement - running a bare metal
>     >>     version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 se=
ems
> perfectly acceptable.
>     >>
>     >>          =E2=80=94Tom
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <
> ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>> Daniele, Anton,
>     >>>
>     >>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>     >>> 1) Is timing a service?
>     >>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>     >>>
>     >>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer
> that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing=
).
> It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabl=
ed
> by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be
> transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would
> not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could
> instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
>     >>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be
> created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictati=
ng
> the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
>     >>>
>     >>> Thoughts?
>     >>>
>     >>> Gert
>     >>>
>     >>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
>     >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-
> actn-slici
>     >>> ng-00
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <
> netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
> wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>     >>>> Hi Anton,
>     >>>>
>     >>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need
> synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized
> network?
>     >>>    There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=
=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=
=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5".
> The
>     >>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it
> too".
>     >>>
>     >>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it
> out than
>     >>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will hav=
e
> jitter
>     >>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>     >>>
>     >>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are
> reasonable and
>     >>>    unreasonable asks.
>     >>>
>     >>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the
> whole thing.
>     >>>    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant S=
LA
>     >>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely
> between
>     >>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One
> subcase of
>     >>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one)
> sync enabled
>     >>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it
> out at the
>     >>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>     >>>
>     >>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices
> on a
>     >>>    network as you see fit".
>     >>>
>     >>>    A.
>     >>>
>     >>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> BR
>     >>>> Daniele
>     >>>>
>     >>>> -----Original Message-----
>     >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>     >>>> Anton Ivanov
>     >>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>     >>>> To: netslices@ietf.org
>     >>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>     >>>>
>     >>>> Err...
>     >>>>
>     >>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>     >>>>
>     >>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its ow=
n
> special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common us=
e
> case.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove,
> disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the
> network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near
> requirements.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> A.
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>     >>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the
>     >>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for
>     >>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected fro=
m
> 2020.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from
>     >>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They do not need
>     >>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they need laten=
cy
>     >>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service.
> Does
>     >>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI=
,
>     >>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple
> slices?
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> - Stewart
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> _______________________________________________
>     >>>>> Netslices mailing list
>     >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>     >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     >>>>>
>     >>>> _______________________________________________
>     >>>> Netslices mailing list
>     >>>> Netslices@ietf.org
>     >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     >>>>
>     >>>    _______________________________________________
>     >>>    Netslices mailing list
>     >>>    Netslices@ietf.org
>     >>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> _______________________________________________
>     >>> Netslices mailing list
>     >>> Netslices@ietf.org
>     >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     >>     _______________________________________________
>     >>     Netslices mailing list
>     >>     Netslices@ietf.org
>     >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> Netslices mailing list
>     >> Netslices@ietf.org
>     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Netslices mailing list
>     > Netslices@ietf.org
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Netslices mailing list
>     Netslices@ietf.org
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>

--001a113f1dcc3f653d055269beac
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Peter,<div>another consideration for network slicing ma=
y be scope of the network slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is mor=
e difficult to scale up than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of =
clock synchronization is indeed physical property of the underlay.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, Ashwood=
smithPeter <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawe=
i.com" target=3D"_blank">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hey Gert,<br>
<br>
It was an observation. I don&#39;t know the best solution. Just offering it=
 up for discussion.<br>
<br>
The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the physical top=
ology , the location of grand master clock sources and syncs and you have t=
o compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need to configure all the inter=
mediate boundary clocks adjust any differential errors, master slave relati=
onships and fallback behavior. You may also need to bring this into a DC/CR=
AN and configure it to servers, radios etc.<br>
<br>
So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.<br>
<br>
The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does not make tha=
t much difference really and of course some normal (non-timing) slices woul=
d require physical resources possibly end to end.<br>
<br>
Anyway I&#39;m not advocating it, just pointing out that what you need look=
s a lot like some of the functions of a slice orchestrator where the result=
ing slice provides services to all the other slices.<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Gert Grammel [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel=
@juniper.net</a>]<br>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br>
To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">=
Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a><wbr>&gt;; Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Thomas Na=
deau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anto=
n.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.<wbr>uk</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.o=
rg">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel=
e.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.<wbr>com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
<br>
Peter,<br>
<br>
Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?<br>
I think that is stretching the meaning of &quot;slice&quot; a bit too far.<=
br>
<br>
Gert<br>
<br>
On 2017-06-20, 20:52, &quot;AshwoodsmithPeter&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:P=
eter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a><wbr>&gt; wr=
ote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents t=
he timing to be its own &#39;slice&#39;, its aware of all the physical link=
s, sources of grand master,=C2=A0 and who needs what levels of precision. I=
t can compute where the boundary clocks go and establish primary and backup=
 trees (disjoint MST&#39;s). So the mechanisms that are used to control sli=
ces can be used to control two bare metal timing &#39;slices&#39;.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Either that or have a completely different mechanism to manag=
e them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architecture =
to create a primary and backup timing &#39;slices&#39;.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@i=
etf.org">netslices-bounces@<wbr>ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.c=
om">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;; Gert Grammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggr=
ammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begem=
ot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.<wbr>uk</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:ne=
tslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.<wbr>c=
om</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided=
 by the fabric to a slice if needed.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, an=
d people are beginning not to trust GPS.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Stewart<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in vio=
lent agreement then. 8)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=94Tom<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actu=
ally asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be =
left to the underlying physical layer: &quot;=E2=80=A6 timing accuracy is a=
n attribute of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=
=E2=80=A6&quot;. If my reading is correct, we seem to share that view.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resource=
s that support a given timing requirement if that constraint was given.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Gert<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, &quot;Netslices on behalf of T=
homas Nadeau&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netsli=
ces-bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision=
.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gert:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think its a bit =
simpler than that. The slicing use cases require a timing service to be ava=
ilable to it.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I assume that service must be acc=
urate and reliable to some specification.=C2=A0 However, aside from that<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0there does not seem to be any req=
uirement/need to have that service encased within the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0slice.=C2=A0 In essence, virtuali=
zation of the 1588 service is not a requirement - running a bare metal<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version that is shared amongst al=
l the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfectly acceptable.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=94Tom<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Gramme=
l &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically asking two question=
s:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a =
physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is=
 fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where timin=
g capabilities are enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobi=
le traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such =
scenario a client would not=C2=A0 require to dynamically instantiate timing=
 on links but could instantiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set of timing enab=
led links.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby tw=
o slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical =
topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carr=
ied.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like describe=
d in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kin=
g-teas-applicability-actn-slici" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https=
://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-king-teas-applicability-<wbr>actn-slici</=
a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on behalf =
of Anton Ivanov&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">net=
slices-bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot=
-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a><wbr>&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarel=
li wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn&#39;t it be possible to have a scenar=
io in which we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a =
non synchronized network?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is a very good Russian saying=
 &quot;=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=
=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5&quot;. =
The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 English equivalent is &quot;You can=
not have your cake and eat it too&quot;.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is easier to implement sync at t=
he lower layer and share it out than<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to guarantee that some or all of th=
e virtual overlays will have jitter<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 within the limits required for 4G o=
r onwards sync.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We cannot cater for every possible =
requirement. There are reasonable and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 unreasonable asks.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That does not mean that there is no=
 time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is an open question of how to=
 share (with all relevant SLA<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restrictions) a common underlying t=
ime sync service securely between<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 multiple slices and what can be the=
 precision for that. One subcase of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this may be (note the very big &quo=
t;may&quot;) having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 slice which we can just about guara=
ntee and how do we fan it out at the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 edge to all consumers as a shared s=
ervice.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But definitely not: &quot;Allocate =
as many time-sync enabled slices on a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 network as you see fit&quot;.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this would make sense.=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ne=
tslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@<wbr>ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">ne=
tslices@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice will n=
eed to peruse its own special, different from everyone else time synchroniz=
ation as a common use case.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use=
 case to prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do =
not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere nea=
r requirements.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it=
 was explained that the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for 5G are even stri=
cter than they are for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems (which in itself is a c=
hallenge).<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requirement=
 with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing serv=
ices are different from<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency requirements of other servic=
es. They do not need<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency (although that is nice t=
o have) they need latency<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and latency symmetry.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we transmi=
t the timing service. Does<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay and provides time =
as a service to the NSI,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go in a single slice, or does=
 it go in multiple slices?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_____=
____________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Ne=
tslices@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/=
listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.o=
rg/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________=
________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netsli=
ces@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/netslices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>=
_________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Netslices mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.or=
g">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_____________=
____<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@=
ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo=
/netslices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailm=
an/<wbr>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0______________________________<wb=
r>_________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Netslices mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.=
org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf=
.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net=
slices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<=
wbr>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org=
</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslic=
es" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>=
listinfo/netslices</a><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Netslices mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listi=
nfo/netslices</a><br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113f1dcc3f653d055269beac--


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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
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CC: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "Anton Ivanov" <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:08:30 -0500
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To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
Cc: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>,  Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>,  Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Hi Tom,
1588 with HW support in the data plane is more suitable for timing of the
data plane. Since NTP is control plane protocol, synchronizing data plane
off it usually introduces local queuing and thus worsens clock
synchronization in the data plane. AFAIK, NTP is not capable to achieve the
same level, precision of clock synchronization as 1588. Though I agree, and
I've noted that earlier, in some scenarios NTP may be good-enough.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
wrote:

>
> > On Jun 20, 2017:2:52 PM, at 2:52 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter <
> Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com> wrote:
> >
> > The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents the timing
> to be its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical links, sources of
> grand master,  and who needs what levels of precision. It can compute whe=
re
> the boundary clocks go and establish primary and backup trees (disjoint
> MST's). So the mechanisms that are used to control slices can be used to
> control two bare metal timing 'slices=E2=80=99.
>
>         True except for the reality of virtualization of such things.  Th=
e
> devil is in the details, and
> more often than not, it is simpler and cheaper when you consider the tota=
l
> cost of operation to simply do
> a bare metal deployment.  In this case, since NTP and 1588 have been
> functional for years in
> a bare metal environment and will continue to do so, it just makes sense
> to me anyways, to focus
> on other things than open this can of worms.
>
>         =E2=80=94Tom
>
>
> >
> > Either that or have a completely different mechanism to manage them but
> there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to create=
 a
> primary and backup timing 'slices'.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Stewart Bryant
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
> > To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>; Gert Grammel <
> ggrammel@juniper.net>
> > Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>; netslices@ietf.org;
> Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
> >
> >
> > Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided by the
> fabric to a slice if needed.
> >
> > I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, and people
> are beginning not to trust GPS.
> >
> > - Stewart
> >
> > On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
> >>      I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement then. =
8)
> >>
> >>      =E2=80=94Tom
> >>
> >>> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel <
> ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Tom, Stewart,
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually asking to
> build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be left to the
> underlying physical layer: "=E2=80=A6 timing accuracy is an attribute of =
a physical
> layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=E2=80=A6". If my reading =
is
> correct, we seem to share that view.
> >>> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that support a
> given timing requirement if that constraint was given.
> >>>
> >>> Gert
> >>>
> >>> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau" <
> netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     Gert:
> >>>
> >>>     I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases requir=
e
> a timing service to be available to it.
> >>>    I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some
> specification.  However, aside from that
> >>>    there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that servic=
e
> encased within the
> >>>    slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a
> requirement - running a bare metal
> >>>    version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems =
perfectly
> acceptable.
> >>>
> >>>     =E2=80=94Tom
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel <
> ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Daniele, Anton,
> >>>>
> >>>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
> >>>> 1) Is timing a service?
> >>>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
> >>>>
> >>>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that
> cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It
> is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled =
by
> default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be
> transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would
> not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could
> instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
> >>>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be
> created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictati=
ng
> the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>> Gert
> >>>>
> >>>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici
> >>>> ng-00
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" <
> netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Anton,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need
> synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized
> network?
> >>>>   There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=
=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=
=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
> >>>>   English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it too".
> >>>>
> >>>>   It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share it out
> than
> >>>>   to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will have
> jitter
> >>>>   within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
> >>>>
> >>>>   We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are
> reasonable and
> >>>>   unreasonable asks.
> >>>>
> >>>>   That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole
> thing.
> >>>>   There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant SLA
> >>>>   restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely betwe=
en
> >>>>   multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One subcas=
e
> of
> >>>>   this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) sync
> enabled
> >>>>   slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it out a=
t
> the
> >>>>   edge to all consumers as a shared service.
> >>>>
> >>>>   But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on =
a
> >>>>   network as you see fit".
> >>>>
> >>>>   A.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> BR
> >>>>> Daniele
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> >>>>> Anton Ivanov
> >>>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
> >>>>> To: netslices@ietf.org
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Err...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own
> special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common us=
e
> case.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprov=
e
> or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network
> design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
> >>>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the
> >>>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for
> >>>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from
> 2020.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different from
> >>>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They do not need
> >>>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency
> >>>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does
> >>>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI,
> >>>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Stewart
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Netslices mailing list
> >>>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Netslices mailing list
> >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >>>>>
> >>>>   _______________________________________________
> >>>>   Netslices mailing list
> >>>>   Netslices@ietf.org
> >>>>   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Netslices mailing list
> >>>> Netslices@ietf.org
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >>>    _______________________________________________
> >>>    Netslices mailing list
> >>>    Netslices@ietf.org
> >>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Netslices mailing list
> >>> Netslices@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Netslices mailing list
> >> Netslices@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Netslices mailing list
> > Netslices@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> > _______________________________________________
> > Netslices mailing list
> > Netslices@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tom,<div>1588 with HW support in the data plane is more=
 suitable for timing of the data plane. Since NTP is control plane protocol=
, synchronizing data plane off it usually introduces local queuing and thus=
 worsens clock synchronization in the data plane. AFAIK, NTP is not capable=
 to achieve the same level, precision of clock synchronization as 1588. Tho=
ugh I agree, and I&#39;ve noted that earlier, in some scenarios NTP may be =
good-enough.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 201=
7 at 2:57 PM, Thomas Nadeau <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau=
@lucidvision.com" target=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br>
&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:2:52 PM, at 2:52 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a><wbr=
>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents the timing=
 to be its own &#39;slice&#39;, its aware of all the physical links, source=
s of grand master,=C2=A0 and who needs what levels of precision. It can com=
pute where the boundary clocks go and establish primary and backup trees (d=
isjoint MST&#39;s). So the mechanisms that are used to control slices can b=
e used to control two bare metal timing &#39;slices=E2=80=99.<br>
<br>
</span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 True except for the reality of virtualiz=
ation of such things.=C2=A0 The devil is in the details, and<br>
more often than not, it is simpler and cheaper when you consider the total =
cost of operation to simply do<br>
a bare metal deployment.=C2=A0 In this case, since NTP and 1588 have been f=
unctional for years in<br>
a bare metal environment and will continue to do so, it just makes sense to=
 me anyways, to focus<br>
on other things than open this can of worms.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=94Tom<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Either that or have a completely different mechanism to manage them bu=
t there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to create=
 a primary and backup timing &#39;slices&#39;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Peter<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">=
netslices-bounces@<wbr>ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
&gt; To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnade=
au@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;; Gert Grammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@jun=
iper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"=
>anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.<wbr>uk</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@i=
etf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d=
aniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided by the f=
abric to a slice if needed.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, and people =
are beginning not to trust GPS.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; - Stewart<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in viole=
nt agreement then. 8)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=94Tom<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually askin=
g to build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be left to th=
e underlying physical layer: &quot;=E2=80=A6 timing accuracy is an attribut=
e of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=E2=80=A6&qu=
ot;. If my reading is correct, we seem to share that view.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that sup=
port a given timing requirement if that constraint was given.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nade=
au&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounce=
s@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnad=
eau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gert:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I think its a bit simpler than that. The sl=
icing use cases require a timing service to be available to it.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I assume that service must be accurate and reliab=
le to some specification.=C2=A0 However, aside from that<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 there does not seem to be any requirement/need to=
 have that service encased within the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 slice.=C2=A0 In essence, virtualization of the 15=
88 service is not a requirement - running a bare metal<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 version that is shared amongst all the slices, et=
c=E2=80=A6 seems perfectly acceptable.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=94Tom<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically asking two questions:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical l=
ayer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate shar=
ing). It is reasonable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where timing capabili=
ties are enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic=
 MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a=
 client would not=C2=A0 require to dynamically instantiate timing on links =
but could instantiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set of timing enabled links.=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices c=
ould be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology d=
ictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-app=
licability-actn-slici" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/<wbr>draft-king-teas-applicability-<wbr>actn-slici</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Anton I=
vanov&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bou=
nces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.c=
o.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a><wbr>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<b=
r>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn&#39;t it be possible to have a scenario in whic=
h we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchr=
onized network?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0There is a very good Russian saying &quot;=D0=
=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=
=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5&quot;. The<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0English equivalent is &quot;You cannot have yo=
ur cake and eat it too&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0It is easier to implement sync at the lower la=
yer and share it out than<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0to guarantee that some or all of the virtual o=
verlays will have jitter<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0within the limits required for 4G or onwards s=
ync.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0We cannot cater for every possible requirement=
. There are reasonable and<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0unreasonable asks.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0That does not mean that there is no time sync =
aspect to the whole thing.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0There is an open question of how to share (wit=
h all relevant SLA<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0restrictions) a common underlying time sync se=
rvice securely between<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0multiple slices and what can be the precision =
for that. One subcase of<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0this may be (note the very big &quot;may&quot;=
) having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0slice which we can just about guarantee and ho=
w do we fan it out at the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0edge to all consumers as a shared service.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0But definitely not: &quot;Allocate as many tim=
e-sync enabled slices on a<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0network as you see fit&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0A.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this would make sense.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bo=
unces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@<wbr>ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to per=
use its own special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a=
 common use case.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to p=
rove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see th=
e network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirem=
ents.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was expla=
ined that the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than =
they are for<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns=
 expected from 2020.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing services are d=
ifferent from<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency requirements of other services. They d=
o not need<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency (although that is nice to have) th=
ey need latency<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and latency symmetry.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we transmit the timi=
ng service. Does<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay and provides time as a servi=
ce to the NSI,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in =
multiple slices?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_______________=
__<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/n=
etslices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman=
/<wbr>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<b=
r>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.o=
rg</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netsl=
ices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wb=
r>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0______________________________<wbr>___________=
______<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslice=
s@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin=
fo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</=
a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>li=
stinfo/netslices</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>______________=
___<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@i=
etf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/=
netslices" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailma=
n/<wbr>listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listin=
fo/netslices</a><br>
&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/n=
etslices</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netsl=
ices</a><br>
&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netsl=
ices</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/netslices<=
/a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c1679ec437c0055269d018--


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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Igor Bryskin <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com>
To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, "ggrammel@juniper.net" <ggrammel@juniper.net>, "stewart.bryant@gmail.com" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "tnadeau@lucidvision.com" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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<div>
<div>Hi Peter,<br>
<br>
In the light of what you said below, would you concider grand master and bo=
undary clocks as SFs/NFs and use SF/NF aware TE topology model describing p=
hysical or abstract network to define adequately constrained trees connecti=
ng the clocks?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Igor<br>
</div>
<div name=3D"x_AnyOffice-Background-Image" style=3D"border-top:1px solid #B=
5C4DF; font-size:14px; line-height:20px; padding:8px">
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>From:</b>AshwoodsmithPeter</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>To:</b>Gert Grammel,Stewart Bryant,T=
homas Nadeau,</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Cc:</b>Anton Ivanov,netslices@ietf.o=
rg,Daniele Ceccarelli,</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Date:</b>2017-06-20 15:54:50</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [Netslices] Timing s=
ervice</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<div class=3D"PlainText">Hey Gert,<br>
<br>
It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just offering it up =
for discussion.<br>
<br>
The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the physical top=
ology , the location of grand master clock sources and syncs and you have t=
o compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need to configure all the inter=
mediate boundary clocks adjust any
 differential errors, master slave relationships and fallback behavior. You=
 may also need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it to servers, ra=
dios etc.
<br>
<br>
So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.<br>
<br>
The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does not make tha=
t much difference really and of course some normal (non-timing) slices woul=
d require physical resources possibly end to end.<br>
<br>
Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you need looks a =
lot like some of the functions of a slice orchestrator where the resulting =
slice provides services to all the other slices.
<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Gert Grammel [<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">mailto:ggrammel=
@juniper.net</a>]
<br>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br>
To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&gt;; Stewart Bryant=
 &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;; Thomas Nadeau &lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.co=
m&gt;<br>
Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;; netslices@ietf.org=
; Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
<br>
Peter,<br>
<br>
Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice? <br>
I think that is stretching the meaning of &quot;slice&quot; a bit too far.<=
br>
<br>
Gert<br>
<br>
On 2017-06-20, 20:52, &quot;AshwoodsmithPeter&quot; &lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@=
huawei.com&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The only subtle point I would make is that nothing preve=
nts the timing to be its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical links, =
sources of grand master,&nbsp; and who needs what levels of precision. It c=
an compute where the boundary clocks go and establish
 primary and backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the mechanisms that are used=
 to control slices can be used to control two bare metal timing 'slices'.<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Either that or have a completely different mechanism to =
manage them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architec=
ture to create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Peter<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-----<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Netslices [<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@iet=
f.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;; Gert =
Grammel &lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;;=
 netslices@ietf.org; Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com=
&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource pro=
vided by the fabric to a slice if needed.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5=
G, and people are beginning not to trust GPS.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Stewart<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think you, Anton, Stewart and I=
 are in violent agreement then. 8)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=AATom<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Gra=
mmel &lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was=
 actually asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that timing shoul=
d be left to the underlying physical layer: &quot;=A1=AD timing accuracy is=
 an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=
=A1=AD&quot;.
 If my reading is correct, we seem to share that view.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to filter for res=
ources that support a given timing requirement if that constraint was given=
.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Gert<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, &quot;Netslices on behalf=
 of Thomas Nadeau&quot; &lt;netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of tnadeau=
@lucidvision.com&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; Gert:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases req=
uire a timing service to be available to it.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I assume that service m=
ust be accurate and reliable to some specification.&nbsp; However, aside fr=
om that<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; there does not seem to =
be any requirement/need to have that service encased within the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; slice.&nbsp; In essence=
, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requirement - running a bare =
metal<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; version that is shared =
amongst all the slices, etc=A1=AD seems perfectly acceptable.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=AATom<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert G=
rammel &lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically asking two que=
stions:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute =
of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspe=
ct is fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where =
timing capabilities are enabled by default on all resources. As an
 example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links =
only. In such scenario a client would not&nbsp; require to dynamically inst=
antiate timing on links but could instantiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set =
of timing enabled links.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as with SRLG where=
by two slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the phys=
ical topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections=
 carried.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like des=
cribed in <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici</a><br=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on be=
half of Anton Ivanov&quot; &lt;netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anto=
n.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniel=
e Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be possible to have a scena=
rio in which we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a=
 non synchronized network?<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is a very good Russ=
ian saying &quot;=A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=DD=A7=EE=A7=D9=A7=F1 =A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=
=F1=A7=E4=A7=EE =A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=A7=DF=A7=E0=A7=
=D6&quot;. The<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; English equivalent is &qu=
ot;You cannot have your cake and eat it too&quot;.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is easier to implement=
 sync at the lower layer and share it out than<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to guarantee that some or=
 all of the virtual overlays will have jitter<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; within the limits require=
d for 4G or onwards sync.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We cannot cater for every=
 possible requirement. There are reasonable and<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; unreasonable asks.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That does not mean that t=
here is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is an open question=
 of how to share (with all relevant SLA<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; restrictions) a common un=
derlying time sync service securely between<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; multiple slices and what =
can be the precision for that. One subcase of<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this may be (note the ver=
y big &quot;may&quot;) having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; slice which we can just a=
bout guarantee and how do we fan it out at the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; edge to all consumers as =
a shared service.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But definitely not: &quot=
;Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network as you see fit&qu=
ot;.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this would make s=
ense.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [<a href=3D"mailto:nets=
lices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=A8=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: netslices@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice w=
ill need to peruse its own special, different from everyone else time synch=
ronization as a common use case.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-of=
f use case to prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but =
I do not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywher=
e near requirements.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote=
:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday whe=
re it was explained that the <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for 5G are even=
 stricter than they are for <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems (which in itself i=
s a challenge).<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requir=
ement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing=
 services are different from <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency requirements of other s=
ervices. They do not need <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency (although that is n=
ice to have) they need latency <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and latency symmetry.<=
br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we tr=
ansmit the timing service. Does <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay and provides =
time as a service to the NSI, <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go in a single slice, or=
 does it go in multiple slices?<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ___________________________________=
____________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/netslices">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a=
><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________=
________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman=
/listinfo/netslices">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _________________________=
______________________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices mailing list<br=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ne=
tslices</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; ___________________________________________=
____<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/netslices">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _______________________=
________________________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices mailing list<=
br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.=
ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/=
netslices</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Netslices@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/netslices">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Netslices@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ne=
tslices">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _______________________________________________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslic=
es">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
Netslices@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices">https://www.iet=
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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: Igor Bryskin <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com>, "ggrammel@juniper.net" <ggrammel@juniper.net>, "stewart.bryant@gmail.com" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "tnadeau@lucidvision.com" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hey Igor,<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yes, I sup=
pose that is a functionally correct abstraction but I make no claims on the=
 practicality. Probably worth discussing with
 real clock experts. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Peter<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Igor Bryskin
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 20, 2017 4:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&gt;; ggramme=
l@juniper.net; stewart.bryant@gmail.com; tnadeau@lucidvision.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk; netslices@ietf.org; daniele.cecc=
arelli@ericsson.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Netslices] Timing service<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Peter,<br>
<br>
In the light of what you said below, would you concider grand master and bo=
undary clocks as SFs/NFs and use SF/NF aware TE topology model describing p=
hysical or abstract network to define adequately constrained trees connecti=
ng the clocks?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Igor<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:6.0pt 0in =
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<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all"><b=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt">AshwoodsmithPeter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all"><b=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">To:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.5pt">Gert Grammel,Stewart Bryant,Thomas Nadeau,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all"><b=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Cc:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.5pt">Anton Ivanov,netslices@ietf.org,Daniele Ceccarelli,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all"><b=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Date:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt">2017-06-20 15:54:50<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all"><b=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Subject:</span></b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt">Re: [Netslices] Timing service<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Hey Gert,<br>
<br>
It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just offering it up =
for discussion.<br>
<br>
The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the physical top=
ology , the location of grand master clock sources and syncs and you have t=
o compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need to configure all the inter=
mediate boundary clocks adjust any
 differential errors, master slave relationships and fallback behavior. You=
 may also need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it to servers, ra=
dios etc.
<br>
<br>
So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.<br>
<br>
The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does not make tha=
t much difference really and of course some normal (non-timing) slices woul=
d require physical resources possibly end to end.<br>
<br>
Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you need looks a =
lot like some of the functions of a slice orchestrator where the resulting =
slice provides services to all the other slices.
<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Gert Grammel [<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">mailto:ggrammel=
@juniper.net</a>]
<br>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br>
To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">=
Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Thomas Nadeau =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&=
gt;<br>
Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anto=
n.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele Cecca=
relli &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccar=
elli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
<br>
Peter,<br>
<br>
Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice? <br>
I think that is stretching the meaning of &quot;slice&quot; a bit too far.<=
br>
<br>
Gert<br>
<br>
On 2017-06-20, 20:52, &quot;AshwoodsmithPeter&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:P=
eter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The only subtle point I would make is that nothing preve=
nts the timing to be its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical links, =
sources of grand master,&nbsp; and who needs what levels of precision. It c=
an compute where the boundary clocks go and establish
 primary and backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the mechanisms that are used=
 to control slices can be used to control two bare metal timing 'slices'.<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Either that or have a completely different mechanism to =
manage them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architec=
ture to create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Peter<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-----<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Netslices [<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@iet=
f.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvis=
ion.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;; Gert Grammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-=
begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele Cecca=
relli &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccar=
elli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource pro=
vided by the fabric to a slice if needed.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5=
G, and people are beginning not to trust GPS.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Stewart<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think you, Anton, Stewart and I=
 are in violent agreement then. 8)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=AATom<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Gra=
mmel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was=
 actually asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that timing shoul=
d be left to the underlying physical layer: &quot;=A1=AD timing accuracy is=
 an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=
=A1=AD&quot;.
 If my reading is correct, we seem to share that view.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to filter for res=
ources that support a given timing requirement if that constraint was given=
.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Gert<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, &quot;Netslices on behalf=
 of Thomas Nadeau&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org%20=
on%20behalf%20of%20tnadeau@lucidvision.com">netslices-bounces@ietf.org on b=
ehalf of tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; Gert:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases req=
uire a timing service to be available to it.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I assume that service m=
ust be accurate and reliable to some specification.&nbsp; However, aside fr=
om that<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; there does not seem to =
be any requirement/need to have that service encased within the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; slice.&nbsp; In essence=
, virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requirement - running a bare =
metal<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; version that is shared =
amongst all the slices, etc=A1=AD seems perfectly acceptable.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=AATom<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert G=
rammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically asking two que=
stions:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute =
of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspe=
ct is fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where =
timing capabilities are enabled by default on all resources. As an
 example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links =
only. In such scenario a client would not&nbsp; require to dynamically inst=
antiate timing on links but could instantiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set =
of timing enabled links.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as with SRLG where=
by two slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the phys=
ical topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections=
 carried.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like des=
cribed in <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici</a><br=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on be=
half of Anton Ivanov&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org=
%20on%20behalf%20of%20anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">netslices-bounces@iet=
f.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniel=
e Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be possible to have a scena=
rio in which we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a=
 non synchronized network?<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is a very good Russ=
ian saying &quot;=A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=DD=A7=EE=A7=D9=A7=F1 =A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=
=F1=A7=E4=A7=EE =A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=A7=DF=A7=E0=A7=
=D6&quot;. The<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; English equivalent is &qu=
ot;You cannot have your cake and eat it too&quot;.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is easier to implement=
 sync at the lower layer and share it out than<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to guarantee that some or=
 all of the virtual overlays will have jitter<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; within the limits require=
d for 4G or onwards sync.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We cannot cater for every=
 possible requirement. There are reasonable and<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; unreasonable asks.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That does not mean that t=
here is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is an open question=
 of how to share (with all relevant SLA<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; restrictions) a common un=
derlying time sync service securely between<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; multiple slices and what =
can be the precision for that. One subcase of<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this may be (note the ver=
y big &quot;may&quot;) having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; slice which we can just a=
bout guarantee and how do we fan it out at the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; edge to all consumers as =
a shared service.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But definitely not: &quot=
;Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network as you see fit&qu=
ot;.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this would make s=
ense.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [<a href=3D"mailto:nets=
lices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=A8=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.or=
g">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice w=
ill need to peruse its own special, different from everyone else time synch=
ronization as a common use case.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-of=
f use case to prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but =
I do not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywher=
e near requirements.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote=
:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday whe=
re it was explained that the <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for 5G are even=
 stricter than they are for <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems (which in itself i=
s a challenge).<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requir=
ement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing=
 services are different from <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency requirements of other s=
ervices. They do not need <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency (although that is n=
ice to have) they need latency <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and latency symmetry.<=
br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we tr=
ansmit the timing service. Does <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay and provides =
time as a service to the NSI, <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go in a single slice, or=
 does it go in multiple slices?<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ___________________________________=
____________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.or=
g">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/netslices">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a=
><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________=
________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">N=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman=
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>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _________________________=
______________________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices mailing list<br=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslic=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ie=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; ___________________________________________=
____<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _______________________=
________________________<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices mailing list<=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Netsl=
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From: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
CC: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
Thread-Index: AQHS5pIlxRc6trz6Jk67e3VUP0LFuaIthnkAgAAKlICAAAnZAIAAPcCA///+kgCAAEUPAP//5HKAgAASD4CAAAywgIAAJymA///qKgAAAFLOgAAHAVsA
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>
To: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/paHxVTZSRylDG_CAE8Fj2tPfyfA>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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To: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>,  AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
Cc: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <a06982f6-f21f-5523-af5e-2f7ff7a17fff@kot-begemot.co.uk> <AM2PR07MB099405BDCFDC45CA5E8B904DF0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk> <908AE48F-E320-4049-97DE-8C61E929C31F@juniper.net> <1CC049B7-4E32-46BA-97C8-591482135694@lucidvision.com> <5E9B710B-7072-4FC3-98D5-FD019C38121A@juniper.net> <F8982121-9BC8-4CEA-95DE-D745A6BD2726@lucidvision.com> <ddb74f1f-c32b-805f-7d04-200c5831b6c5@gmail.com> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325B92@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <B965160E-2BDE-4B83-A524-1349030B9242@juniper.net> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325BD8@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmUj2Gn-Ypq6jnhCLiCUDttt_rauzbMMsB1MqfWpdxfNZQ@mail.gmail.com> <9D01BF12-86FE-4D0D-ACBE-0F396C13290A@juniper.net>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?

One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is physical 
for the purposes of these discussions, although I am not sure what 
remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the quality of the time 
transfer.

- Stewart


On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> Before we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean with 
> slicing. If a slice **must** be virtualized, then there is not much we 
> can do for ptp. If a slice is something more amorph, a "physical 
> slice" may exist. However my concern in that case would be that the 
> term "slice" is so broad that it can't be used anymore for anything 
> useable.
>
> Gert
>
> *From: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03
> *To: *AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
> *Cc: *Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Stewart Bryant 
> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, 
> Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" 
> <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> another consideration for network slicing may be scope of the network 
> slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale 
> up than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of clock 
> synchronization is indeed physical property of the underlay.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter 
> <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> 
> wrote:
>
>     Hey Gert,
>
>     It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just
>     offering it up for discussion.
>
>     The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the
>     physical topology , the location of grand master clock sources and
>     syncs and you have to compute a pair of diverse trees, then you
>     need to configure all the intermediate boundary clocks adjust any
>     differential errors, master slave relationships and fallback
>     behavior. You may also need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and
>     configure it to servers, radios etc.
>
>     So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.
>
>     The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does not
>     make that much difference really and of course some normal
>     (non-timing) slices would require physical resources possibly end
>     to end.
>
>     Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you need
>     looks a lot like some of the functions of a slice orchestrator
>     where the resulting slice provides services to all the other slices.
>
>     Peter
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Gert Grammel [mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net
>     <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>]
>     Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM
>     To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>>; Stewart Bryant
>     <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>;
>     Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>
>     Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>     <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>     <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>     <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>     Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>     Peter,
>
>     Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?
>     I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice" a bit too far.
>
>     Gert
>
>     On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter"
>     <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>         The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents
>     the timing to be its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical
>     links, sources of grand master,  and who needs what levels of
>     precision. It can compute where the boundary clocks go and
>     establish primary and backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the
>     mechanisms that are used to control slices can be used to control
>     two bare metal timing 'slices'.
>
>         Either that or have a completely different mechanism to manage
>     them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing
>     architecture to create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.
>
>         Peter
>
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
>         Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
>         To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; Gert Grammel
>     <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>>
>         Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>     <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>     <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>     <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>         Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>
>         Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided
>     by the fabric to a slice if needed.
>
>         I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, and
>     people are beginning not to trust GPS.
>
>         - Stewart
>
>         On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>         >   I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement
>     then. 8)
>         >
>         >   â€”Tom
>         >
>         >> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel
>     <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>         >>
>         >> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>         >>
>         >> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually
>     asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should
>     be left to the underlying physical layer: "â€¦ timing accuracy is an
>     attribute of a physical layer that cannot be
>     virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If my reading is correct, we seem to
>     share that view.
>         >> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that
>     support a given timing requirement if that constraint was given.
>         >>
>         >> Gert
>         >>
>         >> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas
>     Nadeau" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>     tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>> wrote:
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>          Gert:
>         >>
>         >>          I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing
>     use cases require a timing service to be available to it.
>         >>     I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to
>     some specification. However, aside from that
>         >>     there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have
>     that service encased within the
>         >>     slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service
>     is not a requirement - running a bare metal
>         >>     version that is shared amongst all the slices, etcâ€¦
>     seems perfectly acceptable.
>         >>
>         >>          â€”Tom
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel
>     <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>         >>>
>         >>> Daniele, Anton,
>         >>>
>         >>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>         >>> 1) Is timing a service?
>         >>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>         >>>
>         >>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical
>     layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is
>     fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing
>     capabilities are enabled by default on all resources. As an
>     example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE
>     capable links only. In such scenario a client would not  require
>     to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a
>     "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
>         >>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices
>     could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical
>     topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized
>     connections carried.
>         >>>
>         >>> Thoughts?
>         >>>
>         >>> Gert
>         >>>
>         >>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
>         >>>
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici
>         >>> ng-00
>         >>>
>         >>>
>         >>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton
>     Ivanov" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>     anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>     <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>> wrote:
>         >>>
>         >>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>         >>>> Hi Anton,
>         >>>>
>         >>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we
>     need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non
>     synchronized network?
>         >>>    There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ
>     Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The
>         >>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and
>     eat it too".
>         >>>
>         >>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and
>     share it out than
>         >>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays
>     will have jitter
>         >>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>         >>>
>         >>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There
>     are reasonable and
>         >>>    unreasonable asks.
>         >>>
>         >>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to
>     the whole thing.
>         >>>    There is an open question of how to share (with all
>     relevant SLA
>         >>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service
>     securely between
>         >>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that.
>     One subcase of
>         >>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just
>     one) sync enabled
>         >>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we
>     fan it out at the
>         >>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>         >>>
>         >>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled
>     slices on a
>         >>>    network as you see fit".
>         >>>
>         >>>    A.
>         >>>
>         >>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>         >>>>
>         >>>> BR
>         >>>> Daniele
>         >>>>
>         >>>> -----Original Message-----
>         >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of
>         >>>> Anton Ivanov
>         >>>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>         >>>> To: netslices@ietf.org <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>         >>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>         >>>>
>         >>>> Err...
>         >>>>
>         >>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>         >>>>
>         >>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse
>     its own special, different from everyone else time synchronization
>     as a common use case.
>         >>>>
>         >>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to
>     prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do
>     not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get
>     anywhere near requirements.
>         >>>>
>         >>>> A.
>         >>>>
>         >>>>
>         >>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>         >>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained
>     that the
>         >>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than they
>     are for
>         >>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns
>     expected from 2020.
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are
>     different from
>         >>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They do not need
>         >>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they
>     need latency
>         >>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing
>     service. Does
>         >>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a service to
>     the NSI,
>         >>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in
>     multiple slices?
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>> - Stewart
>         >>>>>
>         >>>>> _______________________________________________
>         >>>>> Netslices mailing list
>         >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>         >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>         >>>>>
>         >>>> _______________________________________________
>         >>>> Netslices mailing list
>         >>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>         >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>         >>>>
>         >>> _______________________________________________
>         >>>    Netslices mailing list
>         >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>         >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>         >>>
>         >>>
>         >>> _______________________________________________
>         >>> Netslices mailing list
>         >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>         >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>         >>  _______________________________________________
>         >>     Netslices mailing list
>         >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>         >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> _______________________________________________
>         >> Netslices mailing list
>         >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>         >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>         > _______________________________________________
>         > Netslices mailing list
>         > Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>         > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>
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>     Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
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    <p><br>
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    <p>So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?</p>
    <p>One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is
      physical for the purposes of these discussions, although I am not
      sure what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the quality
      of the time transfer.<br>
    </p>
    <p>- Stewart<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:9D01BF12-86FE-4D0D-ACBE-0F396C13290A@juniper.net">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Before
            we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean with
            slicing. If a slice *<b>must</b>* be virtualized, then there
            is not much we can do for ptp. If a slice is something more
            amorph, a "physical slice" may exist. However my concern in
            that case would be that the term "slice" is so broad that it
            can't be used anymore for anything useable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Gert<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
            </b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Greg
              Mirsky <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">&lt;gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
              <b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03<br>
              <b>To: </b>AshwoodsmithPeter
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&gt;</a><br>
              <b>Cc: </b>Gert Grammel <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">&lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;</a>,
              Stewart Bryant <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">&lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;</a>, Thomas
              Nadeau <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">&lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;</a>, Anton Ivanov
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">&lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;</a>,
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">"netslices@ietf.org"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">&lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Daniele
              Ceccarelli <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">&lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br>
              <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Netslices] Timing service<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Peter, <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">another consideration for network
              slicing may be scope of the network slice domain. PTP
              domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale up
              than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of clock
              synchronization is indeed physical property of the
              underlay.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM,
              AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a
                href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
            <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
              1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
              6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal">Hey Gert,<br>
                <br>
                It was an observation. I don't know the best solution.
                Just offering it up for discussion.<br>
                <br>
                The point is that to configure the timing you need to
                know the physical topology , the location of grand
                master clock sources and syncs and you have to compute a
                pair of diverse trees, then you need to configure all
                the intermediate boundary clocks adjust any differential
                errors, master slave relationships and fallback
                behavior. You may also need to bring this into a DC/CRAN
                and configure it to servers, radios etc.<br>
                <br>
                So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.<br>
                <br>
                The fact the resources are physical as opposed to
                virtual does not make that much difference really and of
                course some normal (non-timing) slices would require
                physical resources possibly end to end.<br>
                <br>
                Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that
                what you need looks a lot like some of the functions of
                a slice orchestrator where the resulting slice provides
                services to all the other slices.<br>
                <br>
                Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                    -----Original Message-----<br>
                    From: Gert Grammel [mailto:<a
                      href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>]<br>
                    Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br>
                    To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;;
                    Stewart Bryant &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
                    Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;<br>
                    Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                    <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                    Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
                    Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
                    <br>
                    Peter,<br>
                    <br>
                    Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network
                    slice?<br>
                    I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice" a
                    bit too far.<br>
                    <br>
                    Gert<br>
                    <br>
                    On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter" &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    <br>
                    Â  Â  The only subtle point I would make is that
                    nothing prevents the timing to be its own 'slice',
                    its aware of all the physical links, sources of
                    grand master,Â  and who needs what levels of
                    precision. It can compute where the boundary clocks
                    go and establish primary and backup trees (disjoint
                    MST's). So the mechanisms that are used to control
                    slices can be used to control two bare metal timing
                    'slices'.<br>
                    <br>
                    Â  Â  Either that or have a completely different
                    mechanism to manage them but there is a certain
                    elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to
                    create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.<br>
                    <br>
                    Â  Â  Peter<br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    Â  Â  -----Original Message-----<br>
                    Â  Â  From: Netslices [mailto:<a
                      href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                    On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>
                    Â  Â  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
                    Â  Â  To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;;
                    Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                    <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                    Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    Â  Â  Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying
                    resource provided by the fabric to a slice if
                    needed.<br>
                    <br>
                    Â  Â  I raised the subject because timing is so
                    important to 5G, and people are beginning not to
                    trust GPS.<br>
                    <br>
                    Â  Â  - Stewart<br>
                    <br>
                    Â  Â  On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in
                    violent agreement then. 8)<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â â€”Tom<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM,
                    Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was too cryptic.
                    Daniele was actually asking to build timing slices
                    and I was arguing that timing should be left to the
                    underlying physical layer: "â€¦ timing accuracy is an
                    attribute of a physical layer that cannot be
                    virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If my reading is
                    correct, we seem to share that view.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to filter
                    for resources that support a given timing
                    requirement if that constraint was given.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Gert<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on
                    behalf of Thomas Nadeau" &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                    on behalf of
                    <a href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Gert:<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  I think its a bit simpler than
                    that. The slicing use cases require a timing service
                    to be available to it.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â I assume that service must be
                    accurate and reliable to some specification.Â 
                    However, aside from that<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â there does not seem to be any
                    requirement/need to have that service encased within
                    the<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â slice.Â  In essence, virtualization
                    of the 1588 service is not a requirement - running a
                    bare metal<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â version that is shared amongst all
                    the slices, etcâ€¦ seems perfectly acceptable.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  â€”Tom<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38
                    AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically asking
                    two questions:<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a
                    slice?<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an
                    attribute of a physical layer that cannot be
                    virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate
                    sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a "slice"
                    where timing capabilities are enabled by default on
                    all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY
                    need to be transported on SyncE capable links only.
                    In such scenario a client would notÂ  require to
                    dynamically instantiate timing on links but could
                    instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing enabled
                    links.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as with
                    SRLG whereby two slices could be created avoiding
                    fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology
                    dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized
                    connections carried.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs
                    like described in<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici</a><br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on
                    behalf of Anton Ivanov" &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                    on behalf of
                    <a href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele
                    Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be possible to have
                    a scenario in which we need synchronization for a
                    slice which is built on top of a non synchronized
                    network?<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is a very good Russian
                    saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  English equivalent is "You
                    cannot have your cake and eat it too".<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  It is easier to implement sync
                    at the lower layer and share it out than<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  to guarantee that some or all of
                    the virtual overlays will have jitter<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  within the limits required for
                    4G or onwards sync.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  We cannot cater for every
                    possible requirement. There are reasonable and<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  unreasonable asks.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  That does not mean that there is
                    no time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is an open question of how
                    to share (with all relevant SLA<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  restrictions) a common
                    underlying time sync service securely between<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  multiple slices and what can be
                    the precision for that. One subcase of<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  this may be (note the very big
                    "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  slice which we can just about
                    guarantee and how do we fan it out at the<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  edge to all consumers as a
                    shared service.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  But definitely not: "Allocate as
                    many time-sync enabled slices on a<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  network as you see fit".<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  A.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this
                    would make sense.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a
                      href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                    On Behalf Of<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017
                    11:44<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a
                      href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing
                    service<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with
                    slicing?<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a
                    slice will need to peruse its own special, different
                    from everyone else time synchronization as a common
                    use case.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as
                    a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test
                    particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see
                    the network design rationale for per-slice sync to
                    get anywhere near requirements.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart
                    Bryant wrote:<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar
                    yesterday where it was explained that the<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for 5G
                    are even stricter than they are for<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems (which in
                    itself is a challenge).<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a
                    200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements
                    for timing services are different from<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency requirements of
                    other services. They do not need<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency (although
                    that is nice to have) they need latency<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and latency
                    symmetry.<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is
                    how we transmit the timing service. Does<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay and
                    provides time as a service to the NSI,<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go in a single
                    slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                    _______________________________________________<br>
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                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                    _______________________________________________<br>
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                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
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                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â 
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                    Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  <a
                      href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
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To: GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>,  AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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On 21/06/2017 05:18, GENG Liang wrote:
> I don't see the value of providing differentiated timing services from 
> operator's point of view at this moment

I was wondering about certified time, where there were financial or 
regulatory implications. Would operators want to be encumbered with the 
implications (audits, forensics, court cases etc) or would they simply 
provide a pipe and leave that to the customer.

- Stewart


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From: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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On 21/06/17 09:30, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>
>
> So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?
>

Phys slice is mostly out of IETF traditional scope. The only thing we 
should do about it is modelling.

So, from that perspective, having hard and virtual sounds reasonable 
provided we stick to the scope of what we can do and the model is 
compatible across both.

> One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is 
> physical for the purposes of these discussions, although I am not sure 
> what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the quality of the 
> time transfer.
>

Whatever a hard slice may be, it is not IETF material (except their 
model). Ditto (even more so), for its delivery.

A.

> - Stewart
>
>
> On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel wrote:
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>> Before we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean with 
>> slicing. If a slice **must** be virtualized, then there is not much 
>> we can do for ptp. If a slice is something more amorph, a "physical 
>> slice" may exist. However my concern in that case would be that the 
>> term "slice" is so broad that it can't be used anymore for anything 
>> useable.
>>
>> Gert
>>
>> *From: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03
>> *To: *AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
>> *Cc: *Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Stewart Bryant 
>> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, 
>> Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" 
>> <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli 
>> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> another consideration for network slicing may be scope of the network 
>> slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale 
>> up than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of clock 
>> synchronization is indeed physical property of the underlay.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter 
>> <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com 
>> <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hey Gert,
>>
>>     It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just
>>     offering it up for discussion.
>>
>>     The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the
>>     physical topology , the location of grand master clock sources
>>     and syncs and you have to compute a pair of diverse trees, then
>>     you need to configure all the intermediate boundary clocks adjust
>>     any differential errors, master slave relationships and fallback
>>     behavior. You may also need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and
>>     configure it to servers, radios etc.
>>
>>     So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.
>>
>>     The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does
>>     not make that much difference really and of course some normal
>>     (non-timing) slices would require physical resources possibly end
>>     to end.
>>
>>     Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you
>>     need looks a lot like some of the functions of a slice
>>     orchestrator where the resulting slice provides services to all
>>     the other slices.
>>
>>     Peter
>>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Gert Grammel [mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net
>>     <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>]
>>     Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM
>>     To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>>; Stewart Bryant
>>     <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>;
>>     Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>
>>     Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>>     <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>>     <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>     <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>>     Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>
>>     Peter,
>>
>>     Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?
>>     I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice" a bit too far.
>>
>>     Gert
>>
>>     On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter"
>>     <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents
>>     the timing to be its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical
>>     links, sources of grand master,  and who needs what levels of
>>     precision. It can compute where the boundary clocks go and
>>     establish primary and backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the
>>     mechanisms that are used to control slices can be used to control
>>     two bare metal timing 'slices'.
>>
>>         Either that or have a completely different mechanism to
>>     manage them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the
>>     slicing architecture to create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.
>>
>>         Peter
>>
>>
>>         -----Original Message-----
>>         From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
>>         Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
>>         To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; Gert Grammel
>>     <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>>
>>         Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>>     <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>>     <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>     <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>>         Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>
>>
>>         Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided
>>     by the fabric to a slice if needed.
>>
>>         I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G,
>>     and people are beginning not to trust GPS.
>>
>>         - Stewart
>>
>>         On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>>         >   I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent
>>     agreement then. 8)
>>         >
>>         >   â€”Tom
>>         >
>>         >> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel
>>     <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>>         >>
>>         >> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>>         >>
>>         >> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually
>>     asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that timing
>>     should be left to the underlying physical layer: "â€¦ timing
>>     accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be
>>     virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If my reading is correct, we seem
>>     to share that view.
>>         >> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that
>>     support a given timing requirement if that constraint was given.
>>         >>
>>         >> Gert
>>         >>
>>         >> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas
>>     Nadeau" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>>     tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>> wrote:
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >>          Gert:
>>         >>
>>         >>          I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing
>>     use cases require a timing service to be available to it.
>>         >>     I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to
>>     some specification. However, aside from that
>>         >>     there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have
>>     that service encased within the
>>         >>     slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service
>>     is not a requirement - running a bare metal
>>         >>     version that is shared amongst all the slices, etcâ€¦
>>     seems perfectly acceptable.
>>         >>
>>         >>          â€”Tom
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel
>>     <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Daniele, Anton,
>>         >>>
>>         >>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>>         >>> 1) Is timing a service?
>>         >>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>>         >>>
>>         >>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical
>>     layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect
>>     is fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where
>>     timing capabilities are enabled by default on all resources. As
>>     an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE
>>     capable links only. In such scenario a client would not  require
>>     to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate
>>     a "slice" on a set of timing enabled links.
>>         >>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices
>>     could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical
>>     topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized
>>     connections carried.
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Thoughts?
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Gert
>>         >>>
>>         >>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
>>         >>>
>>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici
>>         >>> ng-00
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton
>>     Ivanov" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>>     anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>>     <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>> wrote:
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>         >>>> Hi Anton,
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we
>>     need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non
>>     synchronized network?
>>         >>>    There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ
>>     Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The
>>         >>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and
>>     eat it too".
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and
>>     share it out than
>>         >>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays
>>     will have jitter
>>         >>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There
>>     are reasonable and
>>         >>>    unreasonable asks.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect
>>     to the whole thing.
>>         >>>    There is an open question of how to share (with all
>>     relevant SLA
>>         >>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service
>>     securely between
>>         >>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for
>>     that. One subcase of
>>         >>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just
>>     one) sync enabled
>>         >>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we
>>     fan it out at the
>>         >>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync
>>     enabled slices on a
>>         >>>    network as you see fit".
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    A.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> BR
>>         >>>> Daniele
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> -----Original Message-----
>>         >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of
>>         >>>> Anton Ivanov
>>         >>>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>>         >>>> To: netslices@ietf.org <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>>         >>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> Err...
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to
>>     peruse its own special, different from everyone else time
>>     synchronization as a common use case.
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to
>>     prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do
>>     not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get
>>     anywhere near requirements.
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> A.
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>         >>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained
>>     that the
>>         >>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than they
>>     are for
>>         >>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>         >>>>>
>>         >>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns
>>     expected from 2020.
>>         >>>>>
>>         >>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are
>>     different from
>>         >>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They do not
>>     need
>>         >>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they
>>     need latency
>>         >>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
>>         >>>>>
>>         >>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing
>>     service. Does
>>         >>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a service to
>>     the NSI,
>>         >>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in
>>     multiple slices?
>>         >>>>>
>>         >>>>> - Stewart
>>         >>>>>
>>         >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>         >>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>         >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>         >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>         >>>>>
>>         >>>> _______________________________________________
>>         >>>> Netslices mailing list
>>         >>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>         >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>         >>>>
>>         >>> _______________________________________________
>>         >>>    Netslices mailing list
>>         >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>         >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>> _______________________________________________
>>         >>> Netslices mailing list
>>         >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>         >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>         >>  _______________________________________________
>>         >>     Netslices mailing list
>>         >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>         >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >> _______________________________________________
>>         >> Netslices mailing list
>>         >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>         >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>         > _______________________________________________
>>         > Netslices mailing list
>>         > Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>         > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>         Netslices mailing list
>>     Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Netslices mailing list
>>     Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>
>


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/06/17 09:30, Stewart Bryant
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:fd391c23-8901-92ef-da66-1482e9365c16@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?</p>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Phys slice is mostly out of IETF traditional scope. The only thing
    we should do about it is modelling.<br>
    <br>
    So, from that perspective, having hard and virtual sounds reasonable
    provided we stick to the scope of what we can do and the model is
    compatible across both.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:fd391c23-8901-92ef-da66-1482e9365c16@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <p>One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is
        physical for the purposes of these discussions, although I am
        not sure what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the
        quality of the time transfer.<br>
      </p>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Whatever a hard slice may be, it is not IETF material (except their
    model). Ditto (even more so), for its delivery.<br>
    <br>
    A.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:fd391c23-8901-92ef-da66-1482e9365c16@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <p> </p>
      <p>- Stewart<br>
      </p>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:9D01BF12-86FE-4D0D-ACBE-0F396C13290A@juniper.net">
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        <div class="WordSection1">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Before
              we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean
              with slicing. If a slice *<b>must</b>* be virtualized,
              then there is not much we can do for ptp. If a slice is
              something more amorph, a "physical slice" may exist.
              However my concern in that case would be that the term
              "slice" is so broad that it can't be used anymore for
              anything useable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Gert<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                  style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
              </b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Greg
                Mirsky <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">&lt;gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
                <b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03<br>
                <b>To: </b>AshwoodsmithPeter <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&gt;</a><br>
                <b>Cc: </b>Gert Grammel <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">&lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;</a>,
                Stewart Bryant <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">&lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;</a>,
                Thomas Nadeau <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">&lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;</a>,
                Anton Ivanov <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">&lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;</a>,
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">"netslices@ietf.org"</a>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">&lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a>,
                Daniele Ceccarelli <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">&lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br>
                <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Netslices] Timing service<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Peter, <o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">another consideration for network
                slicing may be scope of the network slice domain. PTP
                domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale up
                than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of clock
                synchronization is indeed physical property of the
                underlay.<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM,
                AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a
                  href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
              <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
                <p class="MsoNormal">Hey Gert,<br>
                  <br>
                  It was an observation. I don't know the best solution.
                  Just offering it up for discussion.<br>
                  <br>
                  The point is that to configure the timing you need to
                  know the physical topology , the location of grand
                  master clock sources and syncs and you have to compute
                  a pair of diverse trees, then you need to configure
                  all the intermediate boundary clocks adjust any
                  differential errors, master slave relationships and
                  fallback behavior. You may also need to bring this
                  into a DC/CRAN and configure it to servers, radios
                  etc.<br>
                  <br>
                  So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.<br>
                  <br>
                  The fact the resources are physical as opposed to
                  virtual does not make that much difference really and
                  of course some normal (non-timing) slices would
                  require physical resources possibly end to end.<br>
                  <br>
                  Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that
                  what you need looks a lot like some of the functions
                  of a slice orchestrator where the resulting slice
                  provides services to all the other slices.<br>
                  <br>
                  Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                      -----Original Message-----<br>
                      From: Gert Grammel [mailto:<a
                        href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>]<br>
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br>
                      To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;;
                      Stewart Bryant &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
                      Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;<br>
                      Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                      <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                      Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
                      Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
                      <br>
                      Peter,<br>
                      <br>
                      Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a
                      network slice?<br>
                      I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice"
                      a bit too far.<br>
                      <br>
                      Gert<br>
                      <br>
                      On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter" &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                      <br>
                      Â  Â  The only subtle point I would make is that
                      nothing prevents the timing to be its own 'slice',
                      its aware of all the physical links, sources of
                      grand master,Â  and who needs what levels of
                      precision. It can compute where the boundary
                      clocks go and establish primary and backup trees
                      (disjoint MST's). So the mechanisms that are used
                      to control slices can be used to control two bare
                      metal timing 'slices'.<br>
                      <br>
                      Â  Â  Either that or have a completely different
                      mechanism to manage them but there is a certain
                      elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to
                      create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.<br>
                      <br>
                      Â  Â  Peter<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      Â  Â  -----Original Message-----<br>
                      Â  Â  From: Netslices [mailto:<a
                        href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                      On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>
                      Â  Â  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
                      Â  Â  To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;;
                      Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                      <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                      Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      Â  Â  Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying
                      resource provided by the fabric to a slice if
                      needed.<br>
                      <br>
                      Â  Â  I raised the subject because timing is so
                      important to 5G, and people are beginning not to
                      trust GPS.<br>
                      <br>
                      Â  Â  - Stewart<br>
                      <br>
                      Â  Â  On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are
                      in violent agreement then. 8)<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â â€”Tom<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40
                      PM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was too cryptic.
                      Daniele was actually asking to build timing slices
                      and I was arguing that timing should be left to
                      the underlying physical layer: "â€¦ timing accuracy
                      is an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be
                      virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If my reading is
                      correct, we seem to share that view.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to
                      filter for resources that support a given timing
                      requirement if that constraint was given.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Gert<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on
                      behalf of Thomas Nadeau" &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                      on behalf of <a
                        href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Gert:<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  I think its a bit simpler
                      than that. The slicing use cases require a timing
                      service to be available to it.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â I assume that service must be
                      accurate and reliable to some specification.Â 
                      However, aside from that<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â there does not seem to be any
                      requirement/need to have that service encased
                      within the<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â slice.Â  In essence,
                      virtualization of the 1588 service is not a
                      requirement - running a bare metal<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â version that is shared amongst
                      all the slices, etcâ€¦ seems perfectly acceptable.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  â€”Tom<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38
                      AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically
                      asking two questions:<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of
                      a slice?<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an
                      attribute of a physical layer that cannot be
                      virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate
                      sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a "slice"
                      where timing capabilities are enabled by default
                      on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic
                      MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links
                      only. In such scenario a client would notÂ  require
                      to dynamically instantiate timing on links but
                      could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing
                      enabled links.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as with
                      SRLG whereby two slices could be created avoiding
                      fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology
                      dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized
                      connections carried.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean
                      constructs like described in<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices
                      on behalf of Anton Ivanov" &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                      on behalf of <a
                        href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele
                      Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be possible to
                      have a scenario in which we need synchronization
                      for a slice which is built on top of a non
                      synchronized network?<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is a very good Russian
                      saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  English equivalent is "You
                      cannot have your cake and eat it too".<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  It is easier to implement sync
                      at the lower layer and share it out than<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  to guarantee that some or all
                      of the virtual overlays will have jitter<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  within the limits required for
                      4G or onwards sync.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  We cannot cater for every
                      possible requirement. There are reasonable and<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  unreasonable asks.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  That does not mean that there
                      is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is an open question of
                      how to share (with all relevant SLA<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  restrictions) a common
                      underlying time sync service securely between<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  multiple slices and what can
                      be the precision for that. One subcase of<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  this may be (note the very big
                      "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  slice which we can just about
                      guarantee and how do we fan it out at the<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  edge to all consumers as a
                      shared service.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  But definitely not: "Allocate
                      as many time-sync enabled slices on a<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  network as you see fit".<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  A.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this
                      would make sense.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a
                        href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                      On Behalf Of<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017
                      11:44<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a
                        href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices]
                      Timing service<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with
                      slicing?<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where
                      a slice will need to peruse its own special,
                      different from everyone else time synchronization
                      as a common use case.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync
                      as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test
                      particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see
                      the network design rationale for per-slice sync to
                      get anywhere near requirements.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart
                      Bryant wrote:<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar
                      yesterday where it was explained that the<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for
                      5G are even stricter than they are for<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems (which
                      in itself is a challenge).<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a
                      200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements
                      for timing services are different from<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency requirements
                      of other services. They do not need<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency (although
                      that is nice to have) they need latency<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and latency
                      symmetry.<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is
                      how we transmit the timing service. Does<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay and
                      provides time as a service to the NSI,<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go in a single
                      slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                        href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                        href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                        href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                        href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â 
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  Netslices mailing list<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  <a
                        href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  <a
                        href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                        href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                        href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â 
                      Â _______________________________________________<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â Netslices mailing list<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â <a
                        href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â <a
                        href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt;
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;&gt; <a
                        href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt;
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                      Â  Â  &gt; <a href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                      Â  Â  &gt; <a
                        href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                      <br>
                      Â  Â 
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Â  Â  Netslices mailing list<br>
                      Â  Â  <a href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
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                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Netslices mailing list<br>
                      <a href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
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                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          </div>
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      </blockquote>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
CC: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:23:08 +0000
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References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <a06982f6-f21f-5523-af5e-2f7ff7a17fff@kot-begemot.co.uk> <AM2PR07MB099405BDCFDC45CA5E8B904DF0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk> <908AE48F-E320-4049-97DE-8C61E929C31F@juniper.net> <1CC049B7-4E32-46BA-97C8-591482135694@lucidvision.com> <5E9B710B-7072-4FC3-98D5-FD019C38121A@juniper.net> <F8982121-9BC8-4CEA-95DE-D745A6BD2726@lucidvision.com> <ddb74f1f-c32b-805f-7d04-200c5831b6c5@gmail.com> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325B92@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <B965160E-2BDE-4B83-A524-1349030B9242@juniper.net> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325BD8@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmUj2Gn-Ypq6jnhCLiCUDttt_rauzbMMsB1MqfWpdxfNZQ@mail.gmail.com> <9D01BF12-86FE-4D0D-ACBE-0F396C13290A@juniper.net> <fd391c23-8901-92ef-da66-1482e9365c16@gmail.com>
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <a06982f6-f21f-5523-af5e-2f7ff7a17fff@kot-begemot.co.uk> <AM2PR07MB099405BDCFDC45CA5E8B904DF0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk> <908AE48F-E320-4049-97DE-8C61E929C31F@juniper.net> <1CC049B7-4E32-46BA-97C8-591482135694@lucidvision.com> <5E9B710B-7072-4FC3-98D5-FD019C38121A@juniper.net> <F8982121-9BC8-4CEA-95DE-D745A6BD2726@lucidvision.com> <ddb74f1f-c32b-805f-7d04-200c5831b6c5@gmail.com> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325B92@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <B965160E-2BDE-4B83-A524-1349030B9242@juniper.net> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325BD8@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmUj2Gn-Ypq6jnhCLiCUDttt_rauzbMMsB1MqfWpdxfNZQ@mail.gmail.com> <9D01BF12-86FE-4D0D-ACBE-0F396C13290A@juniper.net> <fd391c23-8901-92ef-da66-1482e9365c16@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FF5C55@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
Cc: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
From: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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On 21/06/17 10:23, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>
> Hi Stewart, all,
>
> I donâ€™t think so.
>
> Slicing is no more than an abstract view. How that view is 
> built/engineered is actually up to the taste of each operator; further 
> it is an internal business of the operator. From where I sit, I see 
> the slice can be packaged using physical, virtual or a combination 
> thereof. How the slice is structured internally is not visible to 
> third parties. As such, I donâ€™t think we need to overload the 
> terminology with new terms.
>

That is the "modelling view" and limiting the WG scope to modelling it. 
If we decide to do so, I am in full agreement.

If, however, we decide to do anything beyond modelling, then some scope 
limitations should be put in place so it does not end up as a run-away 
task to "control the known world".

A.

> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
> *De :*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* 
> Stewart Bryant
> *EnvoyÃ© :* mercredi 21 juin 2017 10:30
> *Ã€ :* Gert Grammel; Greg Mirsky; AshwoodsmithPeter
> *Cc :* Thomas Nadeau; Anton Ivanov; netslices@ietf.org; Daniele Ceccarelli
> *Objet :* Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
> So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?
>
> One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is 
> physical for the purposes of these discussions, although I am not sure 
> what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the quality of the 
> time transfer.
>
> - Stewart
>
> On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel wrote:
>
>     Greg,
>
>     Before we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean
>     with slicing. If a slice **must** be virtualized, then there is
>     not much we can do for ptp. If a slice is something more amorph, a
>     "physical slice" may exist. However my concern in that case would
>     be that the term "slice" is so broad that it can't be used anymore
>     for anything useable.
>
>     Gert
>
>     *From: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>     <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>     *Date: *Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03
>     *To: *AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
>     *Cc: *Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>, Stewart Bryant
>     <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>,
>     Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov
>     <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
>     <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org"
>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org> <netslices@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli
>     <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
>     <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
>     *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>     Hi Peter,
>
>     another consideration for network slicing may be scope of the
>     network slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more
>     difficult to scale up than NTP domain. It may be that certain
>     quality of clock synchronization is indeed physical property of
>     the underlay.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Greg
>
>     On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter
>     <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>         Hey Gert,
>
>         It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just
>         offering it up for discussion.
>
>         The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the
>         physical topology , the location of grand master clock sources
>         and syncs and you have to compute a pair of diverse trees,
>         then you need to configure all the intermediate boundary
>         clocks adjust any differential errors, master slave
>         relationships and fallback behavior. You may also need to
>         bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it to servers, radios etc.
>
>         So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.
>
>         The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does
>         not make that much difference really and of course some normal
>         (non-timing) slices would require physical resources possibly
>         end to end.
>
>         Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you
>         need looks a lot like some of the functions of a slice
>         orchestrator where the resulting slice provides services to
>         all the other slices.
>
>         Peter
>
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Gert Grammel [mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net
>         <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>]
>         Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM
>         To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>         <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>>; Stewart Bryant
>         <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>;
>         Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>         <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>
>         Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>         <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>         <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>         Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>         Peter,
>
>         Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?
>         I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice" a bit too far.
>
>         Gert
>
>         On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter"
>         <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>         <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>             The only subtle point I would make is that nothing
>         prevents the timing to be its own 'slice', its aware of all
>         the physical links, sources of grand master,  and who needs
>         what levels of precision. It can compute where the boundary
>         clocks go and establish primary and backup trees (disjoint
>         MST's). So the mechanisms that are used to control slices can
>         be used to control two bare metal timing 'slices'.
>
>             Either that or have a completely different mechanism to
>         manage them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the
>         slicing architecture to create a primary and backup timing
>         'slices'.
>
>             Peter
>
>
>             -----Original Message-----
>             From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
>             Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
>             To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>         <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; Gert Grammel
>         <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>>
>             Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>         <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>         <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>             Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>
>             Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource
>         provided by the fabric to a slice if needed.
>
>             I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G,
>         and people are beginning not to trust GPS.
>
>             - Stewart
>
>             On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>             >   I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent
>         agreement then. 8)
>             >
>             >   â€”Tom
>             >
>             >> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel
>         <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>             >>
>             >> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>             >>
>             >> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was
>         actually asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that
>         timing should be left to the underlying physical layer: "â€¦
>         timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that
>         cannot be virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If my reading is
>         correct, we seem to share that view.
>             >> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources
>         that support a given timing requirement if that constraint was
>         given.
>             >>
>             >> Gert
>             >>
>             >> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas
>         Nadeau" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>         tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>> wrote:
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>          Gert:
>             >>
>             >>          I think its a bit simpler than that. The
>         slicing use cases require a timing service to be available to it.
>             >>     I assume that service must be accurate and reliable
>         to some specification. However, aside from that
>             >>     there does not seem to be any requirement/need to
>         have that service encased within the
>             >>     slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588
>         service is not a requirement - running a bare metal
>             >>     version that is shared amongst all the slices, etcâ€¦
>         seems perfectly acceptable.
>             >>
>             >>          â€”Tom
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel
>         <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>             >>>
>             >>> Daniele, Anton,
>             >>>
>             >>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>             >>> 1) Is timing a service?
>             >>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>             >>>
>             >>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a
>         physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered
>         (another aspect is fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine
>         a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by default on
>         all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be
>         transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a
>         client would not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on
>         links but could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing
>         enabled links.
>             >>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two
>         slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is
>         the physical topology dictating the fate, not the number of
>         virtualized connections carried.
>             >>>
>             >>> Thoughts?
>             >>>
>             >>> Gert
>             >>>
>             >>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
>             >>>
>         https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici
>             >>> ng-00
>             >>>
>             >>>
>             >>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton
>         Ivanov" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>         anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>         <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>> wrote:
>             >>>
>             >>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>             >>>> Hi Anton,
>             >>>>
>             >>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which
>         we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a
>         non synchronized network?
>             >>>    There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ
>         Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The
>             >>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake
>         and eat it too".
>             >>>
>             >>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer
>         and share it out than
>             >>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual
>         overlays will have jitter
>             >>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>             >>>
>             >>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement.
>         There are reasonable and
>             >>>    unreasonable asks.
>             >>>
>             >>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync
>         aspect to the whole thing.
>             >>>    There is an open question of how to share (with all
>         relevant SLA
>             >>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service
>         securely between
>             >>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for
>         that. One subcase of
>             >>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE
>         (just one) sync enabled
>             >>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do
>         we fan it out at the
>             >>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>             >>>
>             >>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync
>         enabled slices on a
>             >>>    network as you see fit".
>             >>>
>             >>>    A.
>             >>>
>             >>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>             >>>>
>             >>>> BR
>             >>>> Daniele
>             >>>>
>             >>>> -----Original Message-----
>             >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of
>             >>>> Anton Ivanov
>             >>>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>             >>>> To: netslices@ietf.org <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>             >>>>
>             >>>> Err...
>             >>>>
>             >>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>             >>>>
>             >>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to
>         peruse its own special, different from everyone else time
>         synchronization as a common use case.
>             >>>>
>             >>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to
>         prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I
>         do not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to
>         get anywhere near requirements.
>             >>>>
>             >>>> A.
>             >>>>
>             >>>>
>             >>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>             >>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was
>         explained that the
>             >>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than
>         they are for
>             >>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns
>         expected from 2020.
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are
>         different from
>             >>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They do
>         not need
>             >>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they
>         need latency
>             >>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing
>         service. Does
>             >>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a service
>         to the NSI,
>             >>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in
>         multiple slices?
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> - Stewart
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> _______________________________________________
>             >>>>> Netslices mailing list
>             >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             >>>>>
>             >>>> _______________________________________________
>             >>>> Netslices mailing list
>             >>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             >>>>
>             >>> _______________________________________________
>             >>>    Netslices mailing list
>             >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             >>>
>             >>>
>             >>> _______________________________________________
>             >>> Netslices mailing list
>             >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             >>  _______________________________________________
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/06/17 10:23,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FF5C55@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup"
      type="cite">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black">Hi Stewart, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US">I donâ€™t think so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US">Slicing is no more than
            an abstract view. How that view is built/engineered is
            actually up to the taste of each operator; further it is an
            internal business of the operator. From where I sit, I see
            the slice can be packaged using physical, virtual or a
            combination thereof. How the slice is structured internally
            is not visible to third parties. As such, I donâ€™t think we
            need to overload the terminology with new terms. </span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    That is the "modelling view" and limiting the WG scope to modelling
    it. If we decide to do so, I am in full agreement.<br>
    <br>
    If, however, we decide to do anything beyond modelling, then some
    scope limitations should be put in place so it does not end up as a
    run-away task to "control the known world".<br>
    <br>
    A.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FF5C55@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">DeÂ :</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                  Netslices [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                  <b>De la part de</b> Stewart Bryant<br>
                  <b>EnvoyÃ©Â :</b> mercredi 21 juin 2017 10:30<br>
                  <b>Ã€Â :</b> Gert Grammel; Greg Mirsky;
                  AshwoodsmithPeter<br>
                  <b>CcÂ :</b> Thomas Nadeau; Anton Ivanov;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
                  <b>ObjetÂ :</b> Re: [Netslices] Timing service<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          <p><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          <p>So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that
            is physical for the purposes of these discussions, although
            I am not sure what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do
            for the quality of the time transfer.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>- Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Greg,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Before
                we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean
                with slicing. If a slice *<b>must</b>* be virtualized,
                then there is not much we can do for ptp. If a slice is
                something more amorph, a "physical slice" may exist.
                However my concern in that case would be that the term
                "slice" is so broad that it can't be used anymore for
                anything useable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Gert</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                    style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:
                  </span>
                </b><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Greg
                  Mirsky <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">
                    &lt;gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03<br>
                  <b>To: </b>AshwoodsmithPeter <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Cc: </b>Gert Grammel <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">&lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;</a>,
                  Stewart Bryant
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">&lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;</a>,
                  Thomas Nadeau
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">&lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;</a>,
                  Anton Ivanov
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">&lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;</a>,
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">"netslices@ietf.org"</a>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">
                    &lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Daniele Ceccarelli <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">
                    &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Netslices] Timing service</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Peter, <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">another consideration for network
                  slicing may be scope of the network slice domain. PTP
                  domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale up
                  than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of
                  clock synchronization is indeed physical property of
                  the underlay.<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM,
                  AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                    target="_blank">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                  1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Hey Gert,<br>
                    <br>
                    It was an observation. I don't know the best
                    solution. Just offering it up for discussion.<br>
                    <br>
                    The point is that to configure the timing you need
                    to know the physical topology , the location of
                    grand master clock sources and syncs and you have to
                    compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need to
                    configure all the intermediate boundary clocks
                    adjust any differential errors, master slave
                    relationships and fallback behavior. You may also
                    need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it
                    to servers, radios etc.<br>
                    <br>
                    So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.<br>
                    <br>
                    The fact the resources are physical as opposed to
                    virtual does not make that much difference really
                    and of course some normal (non-timing) slices would
                    require physical resources possibly end to end.<br>
                    <br>
                    Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that
                    what you need looks a lot like some of the functions
                    of a slice orchestrator where the resulting slice
                    provides services to all the other slices.<br>
                    <br>
                    Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                        -----Original Message-----<br>
                        From: Gert Grammel [mailto:<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>]<br>
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br>
                        To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;;
                        Stewart Bryant &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
                        Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;<br>
                        Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                        Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
                        Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
                        <br>
                        Peter,<br>
                        <br>
                        Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a
                        network slice?<br>
                        I think that is stretching the meaning of
                        "slice" a bit too far.<br>
                        <br>
                        Gert<br>
                        <br>
                        On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter" &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  The only subtle point I would make is that
                        nothing prevents the timing to be its own
                        'slice', its aware of all the physical links,
                        sources of grand master,Â  and who needs what
                        levels of precision. It can compute where the
                        boundary clocks go and establish primary and
                        backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the mechanisms
                        that are used to control slices can be used to
                        control two bare metal timing 'slices'.<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  Either that or have a completely different
                        mechanism to manage them but there is a certain
                        elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to
                        create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  Peter<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  -----Original Message-----<br>
                        Â  Â  From: Netslices [mailto:<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                        On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>
                        Â  Â  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
                        Â  Â  To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;;
                        Gert Grammel &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                        Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying
                        resource provided by the fabric to a slice if
                        needed.<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  I raised the subject because timing is so
                        important to 5G, and people are beginning not to
                        trust GPS.<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  - Stewart<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are
                        in violent agreement then. 8)<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â â€”Tom<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40
                        PM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was too cryptic.
                        Daniele was actually asking to build timing
                        slices and I was arguing that timing should be
                        left to the underlying physical layer: "â€¦ timing
                        accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer
                        that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If
                        my reading is correct, we seem to share that
                        view.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to
                        filter for resources that support a given timing
                        requirement if that constraint was given.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Gert<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on
                        behalf of Thomas Nadeau" &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                        on behalf of
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Gert:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  I think its a bit simpler
                        than that. The slicing use cases require a
                        timing service to be available to it.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â I assume that service must be
                        accurate and reliable to some specification.Â 
                        However, aside from that<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â there does not seem to be any
                        requirement/need to have that service encased
                        within the<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â slice.Â  In essence,
                        virtualization of the 1588 service is not a
                        requirement - running a bare metal<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â version that is shared amongst
                        all the slices, etcâ€¦ seems perfectly acceptable.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  â€”Tom<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at
                        8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically
                        asking two questions:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic
                        of a slice?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing accuracy is
                        an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be
                        virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is
                        fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a
                        "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by
                        default on all resources. As an example, mobile
                        traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE
                        capable links only. In such scenario a client
                        would notÂ  require to dynamically instantiate
                        timing on links but could instantiate a "slice"
                        on a set of timing enabled links.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as
                        with SRLG whereby two slices could be created
                        avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical
                        topology dictating the fate, not the number of
                        virtualized connections carried.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean
                        constructs like described in<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici"
                          target="_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57,
                        "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                        on behalf of
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele
                        Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be possible to
                        have a scenario in which we need synchronization
                        for a slice which is built on top of a non
                        synchronized network?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is a very good Russian
                        saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  English equivalent is "You
                        cannot have your cake and eat it too".<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  It is easier to implement
                        sync at the lower layer and share it out than<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  to guarantee that some or
                        all of the virtual overlays will have jitter<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  within the limits required
                        for 4G or onwards sync.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  We cannot cater for every
                        possible requirement. There are reasonable and<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  unreasonable asks.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  That does not mean that
                        there is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is an open question of
                        how to share (with all relevant SLA<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  restrictions) a common
                        underlying time sync service securely between<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  multiple slices and what can
                        be the precision for that. One subcase of<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  this may be (note the very
                        big "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  slice which we can just
                        about guarantee and how do we fan it out at the<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  edge to all consumers as a
                        shared service.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  But definitely not:
                        "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  network as you see fit".<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  A.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this
                        would make sense.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                        On Behalf Of<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno
                        2017 11:44<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices]
                        Timing service<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do
                        with slicing?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario
                        where a slice will need to peruse its own
                        special, different from everyone else time
                        synchronization as a common use case.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync
                        as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test
                        particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not
                        see the network design rationale for per-slice
                        sync to get anywhere near requirements.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart
                        Bryant wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar
                        yesterday where it was explained that the<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for
                        5G are even stricter than they are for<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems (which
                        in itself is a challenge).<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a
                        200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency
                        requirements for timing services are different
                        from<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency
                        requirements of other services. They do not need<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency
                        (although that is nice to have) they need
                        latency<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and
                        latency symmetry.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have
                        is how we transmit the timing service. Does<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay
                        and provides time as a service to the NSI,<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go in a
                        single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                          target="_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" target="_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â 
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  Netslices mailing list<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                          target="_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                          target="_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â 
                        Â _______________________________________________<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â Netslices mailing list<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                          target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                          target="_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                          target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â 
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Â  Â  Netslices mailing list<br>
                        Â  Â  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                          target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Netslices mailing list<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                          target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
  </body>
</html>

--------------3D869A9088D7F13B1356FAA5--


From nobody Wed Jun 21 03:22:15 2017
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From: GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:21:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From nobody Wed Jun 21 03:24:38 2017
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From: GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "Stewart Bryant" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, "Greg Mirsky" <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
CC: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
Thread-Index: AQHS5pIqNfY+4lDYsk+ltyKfG4St1Q==
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:24:27 +0000
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References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com>, <a06982f6-f21f-5523-af5e-2f7ff7a17fff@kot-begemot.co.uk>, <AM2PR07MB099405BDCFDC45CA5E8B904DF0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>, <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk>, <908AE48F-E320-4049-97DE-8C61E929C31F@juniper.net>, <1CC049B7-4E32-46BA-97C8-591482135694@lucidvision.com>, <5E9B710B-7072-4FC3-98D5-FD019C38121A@juniper.net>, <F8982121-9BC8-4CEA-95DE-D745A6BD2726@lucidvision.com>, <ddb74f1f-c32b-805f-7d04-200c5831b6c5@gmail.com>, <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325B92@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com>, <B965160E-2BDE-4B83-A524-1349030B9242@juniper.net>, <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325BD8@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com>, <CA+RyBmUj2Gn-Ypq6jnhCLiCUDttt_rauzbMMsB1MqfWpdxfNZQ@mail.gmail.com>, <9D01BF12-86FE-4D0D-ACBE-0F396C13290A@juniper.net>, <fd391c23-8901-92ef-da66-1482e9365c16@gmail.com>, <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FF5C55@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/YeF2SWiBXJ-ZWV1e6MBVt_Iadrg>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk" <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "stewart.bryant" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "ggrammel@juniper.net" <ggrammel@juniper.net>, "gregimirsky@gmail.com" <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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<div>So you suggest to use the term hard slice and soft (or virtual) slice =
to differentiate the characteristic of different slices?
<br>
<br>
-Jie</div>
<div name=3D"AnyOffice-Background-Image" style=3D"border-top:1px solid #B5C=
4DF; font-size:14px; line-height:20px; padding:8px">
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</b>Anton Iv=
anov</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</b>stewart.=
bryant,Gert Grammel,Greg Mirsky,Peter Ashwood-Smith</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA</b>Thomas Nadeau,=
Daniele Ceccarelli,netslices@ietf.org</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA</b>2017-06-21 17:=
18:59</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b>Re: [Netslices] Tim=
ing service</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 21/06/17 09:30, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<p><br>
</p>
<p>So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
Phys slice is mostly out of IETF traditional scope. The only thing we shoul=
d do about it is modelling.<br>
<br>
So, from that perspective, having hard and virtual sounds reasonable provid=
ed we stick to the scope of what we can do and the model is compatible acro=
ss both.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<p>One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is physical =
for the purposes of these discussions, although I am not sure what remappin=
g to re-arrange capacity will do for the quality of the time transfer.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
Whatever a hard slice may be, it is not IETF material (except their model).=
 Ditto (even more so), for its delivery.<br>
<br>
A.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<p></p>
<p>- Stewart<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><style>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Calibri=
">Greg,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Calibri=
">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Calibri=
">Before we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean with slici=
ng. If a slice *<b>must</b>* be virtualized, then there is not much we can =
do for ptp. If a slice is something
 more amorph, a &quot;physical slice&quot; may exist. However my concern in=
 that case would be that the term &quot;slice&quot; is so broad that it can=
't be used anymore for anything useable.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Calibri=
">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Calibri=
">Gert</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Calibri=
">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri; color:black">=
From: </span>
</b><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri; color:black">Greg Mirsky <a class=
=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">
&lt;gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03<br>
<b>To: </b>AshwoodsmithPeter <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mai=
lto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">
&lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&gt;</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Gert Grammel <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:g=
grammel@juniper.net">
&lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;</a>, Stewart Bryant <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-r=
fc2396E" href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">
&lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;</a>, Thomas Nadeau <a class=3D"moz-txt-lin=
k-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">
&lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;</a>, Anton Ivanov <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-=
rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">
&lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;</a>, <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc239=
6E" href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">
&quot;netslices@ietf.org&quot;</a> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=
=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">
&lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Daniele Ceccarelli <a class=3D"moz-txt-link=
-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">
&lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Netslices] Timing service</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Peter, </p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">another consideration for network slicing may be sco=
pe of the network slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more diffic=
ult to scale up than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of clock sy=
nchronization is indeed physical property
 of the underlay.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">Peter=
.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                1.0pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                6.0pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hey Gert,<br>
<br>
It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just offering it up =
for discussion.<br>
<br>
The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the physical top=
ology , the location of grand master clock sources and syncs and you have t=
o compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need to configure all the inter=
mediate boundary clocks adjust any
 differential errors, master slave relationships and fallback behavior. You=
 may also need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it to servers, ra=
dios etc.<br>
<br>
So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.<br>
<br>
The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does not make tha=
t much difference really and of course some normal (non-timing) slices woul=
d require physical resources possibly end to end.<br>
<br>
Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you need looks a =
lot like some of the functions of a slice orchestrator where the resulting =
slice provides services to all the other slices.<br>
<br>
Peter</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Gert Grammel [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel=
@juniper.net</a>]<br>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br>
To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">=
Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Thomas Nadeau =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&=
gt;<br>
Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anto=
n.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele Cecca=
relli &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccar=
elli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
<br>
Peter,<br>
<br>
Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?<br>
I think that is stretching the meaning of &quot;slice&quot; a bit too far.<=
br>
<br>
Gert<br>
<br>
On 2017-06-20, 20:52, &quot;AshwoodsmithPeter&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:P=
eter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents t=
he timing to be its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical links, sourc=
es of grand master,&nbsp; and who needs what levels of precision. It can co=
mpute where the boundary clocks go and establish
 primary and backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the mechanisms that are used=
 to control slices can be used to control two bare metal timing 'slices'.<b=
r>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Either that or have a completely different mechanism to manag=
e them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architecture =
to create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@i=
etf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.c=
om">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;; Gert Grammel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggr=
ammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begem=
ot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele Cecca=
relli &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccar=
elli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided=
 by the fabric to a slice if needed.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, an=
d people are beginning not to trust GPS.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; - Stewart<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in vio=
lent agreement then. 8)<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;=A1=AATom<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actu=
ally asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be =
left to the underlying physical layer: &quot;=A1=AD timing accuracy is an a=
ttribute of a physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=A1=
=AD&quot;.
 If my reading is correct, we seem to share that view.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resource=
s that support a given timing requirement if that constraint was given.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Gert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, &quot;Netslices on behalf of T=
homas Nadeau&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netsli=
ces-bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of
<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Gert:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think its a bit =
simpler than that. The slicing use cases require a timing service to be ava=
ilable to it.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;I assume that service must be acc=
urate and reliable to some specification.&nbsp; However, aside from that<br=
>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;there does not seem to be any req=
uirement/need to have that service encased within the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;slice.&nbsp; In essence, virtuali=
zation of the 1588 service is not a requirement - running a bare metal<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;version that is shared amongst al=
l the slices, etc=A1=AD seems perfectly acceptable.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =A1=AATom<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Gramme=
l &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically asking two question=
s:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a =
physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is=
 fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where timin=
g capabilities are enabled by default on all resources. As an
 example, mobile traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links =
only. In such scenario a client would not&nbsp; require to dynamically inst=
antiate timing on links but could instantiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set =
of timing enabled links.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby tw=
o slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical =
topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections carr=
ied.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like describe=
d in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kin=
g-teas-applicability-actn-slici" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici</a><br=
>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on behalf =
of Anton Ivanov&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">net=
slices-bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of
<a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.=
co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarel=
li wrote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario i=
n which we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non =
synchronized network?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is a very good Russian saying=
 &quot;=A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=DD=A7=EE=A7=D9=A7=F1 =A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=
=A7=EE =A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=A7=DF=A7=E0=A7=D6&quot;. =
The<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; English equivalent is &quot;You can=
not have your cake and eat it too&quot;.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; It is easier to implement sync at t=
he lower layer and share it out than<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; to guarantee that some or all of th=
e virtual overlays will have jitter<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; within the limits required for 4G o=
r onwards sync.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; We cannot cater for every possible =
requirement. There are reasonable and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; unreasonable asks.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; That does not mean that there is no=
 time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is an open question of how to=
 share (with all relevant SLA<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; restrictions) a common underlying t=
ime sync service securely between<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; multiple slices and what can be the=
 precision for that. One subcase of<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; this may be (note the very big &quo=
t;may&quot;) having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; slice which we can just about guara=
ntee and how do we fan it out at the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; edge to all consumers as a shared s=
ervice.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; But definitely not: &quot;Allocate =
as many time-sync enabled slices on a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; network as you see fit&quot;.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; A.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this would make sense.=
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ne=
tslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=A8=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">ne=
tslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice will n=
eed to peruse its own special, different from everyone else time synchroniz=
ation as a common use case.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use=
 case to prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do =
not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere nea=
r requirements.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it=
 was explained that the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for 5G are even stri=
cter than they are for<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems (which in itself is a c=
hallenge).<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requirement=
 with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing serv=
ices are different from<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency requirements of other servic=
es. They do not need<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency (although that is nice t=
o have) they need latency<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and latency symmetry.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we transmi=
t the timing service. Does<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay and provides time =
as a service to the NSI,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go in a single slice, or does=
 it go in multiple slices?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ________________________________________=
_______<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Ne=
tslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/=
listinfo/netslices" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ____________________________________________=
___<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netsli=
ces@ietf.org</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/netslices" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; ___________________________________=
____________<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.or=
g">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/netslices" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@=
ietf.org</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo=
/netslices" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;_________________________________=
______________<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.=
org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/netslices" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l=
istinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf=
.org</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net=
slices" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org=
</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslic=
es" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><b=
r>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; _______________________________________________<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Netslices mailing list<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Netslices mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
Cc: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <a06982f6-f21f-5523-af5e-2f7ff7a17fff@kot-begemot.co.uk> <AM2PR07MB099405BDCFDC45CA5E8B904DF0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk> <908AE48F-E320-4049-97DE-8C61E929C31F@juniper.net> <1CC049B7-4E32-46BA-97C8-591482135694@lucidvision.com> <5E9B710B-7072-4FC3-98D5-FD019C38121A@juniper.net> <F8982121-9BC8-4CEA-95DE-D745A6BD2726@lucidvision.com> <ddb74f1f-c32b-805f-7d04-200c5831b6c5@gmail.com> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325B92@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <B965160E-2BDE-4B83-A524-1349030B9242@juniper.net> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325BD8@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmUj2Gn-Ypq6jnhCLiCUDttt_rauzbMMsB1MqfWpdxfNZQ@mail.gmail.com> <9D01BF12-86FE-4D0D-ACBE-0F396C13290A@juniper.net> <fd391c23-8901-92ef-da66-1482e9365c16@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FF5C55@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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So is slicing simply an abstraction?

If so, then I sense that there are two focii here: the generation of the 
abstract description of a slice, and the conversion of the abstract view 
into a practical system that moves, reads and modifies bits.

A key question is the extent to which the two focii need to be co-located.

- Stewart


On 21/06/2017 10:23, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>
> Hi Stewart, all,
>
> I donâ€™t think so.
>
> Slicing is no more than an abstract view. How that view is 
> built/engineered is actually up to the taste of each operator; further 
> it is an internal business of the operator. From where I sit, I see 
> the slice can be packaged using physical, virtual or a combination 
> thereof. How the slice is structured internally is not visible to 
> third parties. As such, I donâ€™t think we need to overload the 
> terminology with new terms.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
> *De :*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* 
> Stewart Bryant
> *EnvoyÃ© :* mercredi 21 juin 2017 10:30
> *Ã€ :* Gert Grammel; Greg Mirsky; AshwoodsmithPeter
> *Cc :* Thomas Nadeau; Anton Ivanov; netslices@ietf.org; Daniele Ceccarelli
> *Objet :* Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
> So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?
>
> One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is 
> physical for the purposes of these discussions, although I am not sure 
> what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the quality of the 
> time transfer.
>
> - Stewart
>
> On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel wrote:
>
>     Greg,
>
>     Before we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean
>     with slicing. If a slice **must** be virtualized, then there is
>     not much we can do for ptp. If a slice is something more amorph, a
>     "physical slice" may exist. However my concern in that case would
>     be that the term "slice" is so broad that it can't be used anymore
>     for anything useable.
>
>     Gert
>
>     *From: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>     <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>     *Date: *Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03
>     *To: *AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
>     *Cc: *Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>, Stewart Bryant
>     <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>,
>     Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov
>     <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
>     <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org"
>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org> <netslices@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli
>     <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
>     <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
>     *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>     Hi Peter,
>
>     another consideration for network slicing may be scope of the
>     network slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more
>     difficult to scale up than NTP domain. It may be that certain
>     quality of clock synchronization is indeed physical property of
>     the underlay.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Greg
>
>     On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter
>     <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>         Hey Gert,
>
>         It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just
>         offering it up for discussion.
>
>         The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the
>         physical topology , the location of grand master clock sources
>         and syncs and you have to compute a pair of diverse trees,
>         then you need to configure all the intermediate boundary
>         clocks adjust any differential errors, master slave
>         relationships and fallback behavior. You may also need to
>         bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it to servers, radios etc.
>
>         So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.
>
>         The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does
>         not make that much difference really and of course some normal
>         (non-timing) slices would require physical resources possibly
>         end to end.
>
>         Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you
>         need looks a lot like some of the functions of a slice
>         orchestrator where the resulting slice provides services to
>         all the other slices.
>
>         Peter
>
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Gert Grammel [mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net
>         <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>]
>         Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM
>         To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>         <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>>; Stewart Bryant
>         <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>;
>         Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>         <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>
>         Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>         <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>         <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>         Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>         Peter,
>
>         Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?
>         I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice" a bit too far.
>
>         Gert
>
>         On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter"
>         <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>         <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>             The only subtle point I would make is that nothing
>         prevents the timing to be its own 'slice', its aware of all
>         the physical links, sources of grand master,  and who needs
>         what levels of precision. It can compute where the boundary
>         clocks go and establish primary and backup trees (disjoint
>         MST's). So the mechanisms that are used to control slices can
>         be used to control two bare metal timing 'slices'.
>
>             Either that or have a completely different mechanism to
>         manage them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the
>         slicing architecture to create a primary and backup timing
>         'slices'.
>
>             Peter
>
>
>             -----Original Message-----
>             From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
>             Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
>             To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>         <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; Gert Grammel
>         <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>>
>             Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>         <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>         <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>             Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>
>
>             Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource
>         provided by the fabric to a slice if needed.
>
>             I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G,
>         and people are beginning not to trust GPS.
>
>             - Stewart
>
>             On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>             >   I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent
>         agreement then. 8)
>             >
>             >   â€”Tom
>             >
>             >> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel
>         <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>             >>
>             >> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>             >>
>             >> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was
>         actually asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that
>         timing should be left to the underlying physical layer: "â€¦
>         timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that
>         cannot be virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If my reading is
>         correct, we seem to share that view.
>             >> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources
>         that support a given timing requirement if that constraint was
>         given.
>             >>
>             >> Gert
>             >>
>             >> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas
>         Nadeau" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>         tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>> wrote:
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>          Gert:
>             >>
>             >>          I think its a bit simpler than that. The
>         slicing use cases require a timing service to be available to it.
>             >>     I assume that service must be accurate and reliable
>         to some specification. However, aside from that
>             >>     there does not seem to be any requirement/need to
>         have that service encased within the
>             >>     slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588
>         service is not a requirement - running a bare metal
>             >>     version that is shared amongst all the slices, etcâ€¦
>         seems perfectly acceptable.
>             >>
>             >>          â€”Tom
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel
>         <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>             >>>
>             >>> Daniele, Anton,
>             >>>
>             >>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>             >>> 1) Is timing a service?
>             >>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>             >>>
>             >>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a
>         physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered
>         (another aspect is fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine
>         a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by default on
>         all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be
>         transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a
>         client would not  require to dynamically instantiate timing on
>         links but could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing
>         enabled links.
>             >>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two
>         slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is
>         the physical topology dictating the fate, not the number of
>         virtualized connections carried.
>             >>>
>             >>> Thoughts?
>             >>>
>             >>> Gert
>             >>>
>             >>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
>             >>>
>         https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici
>             >>> ng-00
>             >>>
>             >>>
>             >>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton
>         Ivanov" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>         anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>         <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>> wrote:
>             >>>
>             >>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>             >>>> Hi Anton,
>             >>>>
>             >>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which
>         we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a
>         non synchronized network?
>             >>>    There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ
>         Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The
>             >>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake
>         and eat it too".
>             >>>
>             >>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer
>         and share it out than
>             >>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual
>         overlays will have jitter
>             >>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>             >>>
>             >>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement.
>         There are reasonable and
>             >>>    unreasonable asks.
>             >>>
>             >>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync
>         aspect to the whole thing.
>             >>>    There is an open question of how to share (with all
>         relevant SLA
>             >>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service
>         securely between
>             >>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for
>         that. One subcase of
>             >>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE
>         (just one) sync enabled
>             >>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do
>         we fan it out at the
>             >>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>             >>>
>             >>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync
>         enabled slices on a
>             >>>    network as you see fit".
>             >>>
>             >>>    A.
>             >>>
>             >>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>             >>>>
>             >>>> BR
>             >>>> Daniele
>             >>>>
>             >>>> -----Original Message-----
>             >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of
>             >>>> Anton Ivanov
>             >>>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>             >>>> To: netslices@ietf.org <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>             >>>>
>             >>>> Err...
>             >>>>
>             >>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>             >>>>
>             >>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to
>         peruse its own special, different from everyone else time
>         synchronization as a common use case.
>             >>>>
>             >>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to
>         prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I
>         do not see the network design rationale for per-slice sync to
>         get anywhere near requirements.
>             >>>>
>             >>>> A.
>             >>>>
>             >>>>
>             >>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>             >>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was
>         explained that the
>             >>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than
>         they are for
>             >>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns
>         expected from 2020.
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are
>         different from
>             >>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They do
>         not need
>             >>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they
>         need latency
>             >>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing
>         service. Does
>             >>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a service
>         to the NSI,
>             >>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in
>         multiple slices?
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> - Stewart
>             >>>>>
>             >>>>> _______________________________________________
>             >>>>> Netslices mailing list
>             >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             >>>>>
>             >>>> _______________________________________________
>             >>>> Netslices mailing list
>             >>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             >>>>
>             >>> _______________________________________________
>             >>>    Netslices mailing list
>             >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             >>>
>             >>>
>             >>> _______________________________________________
>             >>> Netslices mailing list
>             >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             >>  _______________________________________________
>             >>     Netslices mailing list
>             >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             >>
>             >>
>             >> _______________________________________________
>             >> Netslices mailing list
>             >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>             >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>             > _______________________________________________
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>
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    <p><br>
    </p>
    So is slicing simply an abstraction?<br>
    <br>
    If so, then I sense that there are two focii here: the generation of
    the abstract description of a slice, and the conversion of the
    abstract view into a practical system that moves, reads and modifies
    bits.<br>
    <br>
    A key question is the extent to which the two focii need to be
    co-located.<br>
    <br>
    - Stewart<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/06/2017 10:23,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black">Hi Stewart, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US">I donâ€™t think so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US">Slicing is no more than
            an abstract view. How that view is built/engineered is
            actually up to the taste of each operator; further it is an
            internal business of the operator. From where I sit, I see
            the slice can be packaged using physical, virtual or a
            combination thereof. How the slice is structured internally
            is not visible to third parties. As such, I donâ€™t think we
            need to overload the terminology with new terms. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
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              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">DeÂ :</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                  Netslices [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                  <b>De la part de</b> Stewart Bryant<br>
                  <b>EnvoyÃ©Â :</b> mercredi 21 juin 2017 10:30<br>
                  <b>Ã€Â :</b> Gert Grammel; Greg Mirsky;
                  AshwoodsmithPeter<br>
                  <b>CcÂ :</b> Thomas Nadeau; Anton Ivanov;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
                  <b>ObjetÂ :</b> Re: [Netslices] Timing service<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          <p><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          <p>So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that
            is physical for the purposes of these discussions, although
            I am not sure what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do
            for the quality of the time transfer.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>- Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Greg,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Before
                we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean
                with slicing. If a slice *<b>must</b>* be virtualized,
                then there is not much we can do for ptp. If a slice is
                something more amorph, a "physical slice" may exist.
                However my concern in that case would be that the term
                "slice" is so broad that it can't be used anymore for
                anything useable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Gert</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                    style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:
                  </span>
                </b><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Greg
                  Mirsky <a href="mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">
                    &lt;gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03<br>
                  <b>To: </b>AshwoodsmithPeter <a
                    href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Cc: </b>Gert Grammel <a
                    href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;</a>,
                  Stewart Bryant
                  <a href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;</a>,
                  Thomas Nadeau
                  <a href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;</a>,
                  Anton Ivanov
                  <a href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;</a>,
                  <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">"netslices@ietf.org"</a> <a
                    href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">
                    &lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Daniele Ceccarelli <a
                    href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">
                    &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Netslices] Timing service</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Peter, <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">another consideration for network
                  slicing may be scope of the network slice domain. PTP
                  domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale up
                  than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of
                  clock synchronization is indeed physical property of
                  the underlay.<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM,
                  AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a
                    href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                  1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Hey Gert,<br>
                    <br>
                    It was an observation. I don't know the best
                    solution. Just offering it up for discussion.<br>
                    <br>
                    The point is that to configure the timing you need
                    to know the physical topology , the location of
                    grand master clock sources and syncs and you have to
                    compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need to
                    configure all the intermediate boundary clocks
                    adjust any differential errors, master slave
                    relationships and fallback behavior. You may also
                    need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it
                    to servers, radios etc.<br>
                    <br>
                    So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.<br>
                    <br>
                    The fact the resources are physical as opposed to
                    virtual does not make that much difference really
                    and of course some normal (non-timing) slices would
                    require physical resources possibly end to end.<br>
                    <br>
                    Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that
                    what you need looks a lot like some of the functions
                    of a slice orchestrator where the resulting slice
                    provides services to all the other slices.<br>
                    <br>
                    Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                        -----Original Message-----<br>
                        From: Gert Grammel [mailto:<a
                          href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>]<br>
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br>
                        To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;;
                        Stewart Bryant &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
                        Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;<br>
                        Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                        <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                        Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
                        Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
                        <br>
                        Peter,<br>
                        <br>
                        Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a
                        network slice?<br>
                        I think that is stretching the meaning of
                        "slice" a bit too far.<br>
                        <br>
                        Gert<br>
                        <br>
                        On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter" &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  The only subtle point I would make is that
                        nothing prevents the timing to be its own
                        'slice', its aware of all the physical links,
                        sources of grand master,Â  and who needs what
                        levels of precision. It can compute where the
                        boundary clocks go and establish primary and
                        backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the mechanisms
                        that are used to control slices can be used to
                        control two bare metal timing 'slices'.<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  Either that or have a completely different
                        mechanism to manage them but there is a certain
                        elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to
                        create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  Peter<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  -----Original Message-----<br>
                        Â  Â  From: Netslices [mailto:<a
                          href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                        On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>
                        Â  Â  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
                        Â  Â  To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;;
                        Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                        <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                        Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying
                        resource provided by the fabric to a slice if
                        needed.<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  I raised the subject because timing is so
                        important to 5G, and people are beginning not to
                        trust GPS.<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  - Stewart<br>
                        <br>
                        Â  Â  On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are
                        in violent agreement then. 8)<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â â€”Tom<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40
                        PM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was too cryptic.
                        Daniele was actually asking to build timing
                        slices and I was arguing that timing should be
                        left to the underlying physical layer: "â€¦ timing
                        accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer
                        that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If
                        my reading is correct, we seem to share that
                        view.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to
                        filter for resources that support a given timing
                        requirement if that constraint was given.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Gert<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on
                        behalf of Thomas Nadeau" &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                        on behalf of
                        <a href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Gert:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  I think its a bit simpler
                        than that. The slicing use cases require a
                        timing service to be available to it.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â I assume that service must be
                        accurate and reliable to some specification.Â 
                        However, aside from that<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â there does not seem to be any
                        requirement/need to have that service encased
                        within the<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â slice.Â  In essence,
                        virtualization of the 1588 service is not a
                        requirement - running a bare metal<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â version that is shared amongst
                        all the slices, etcâ€¦ seems perfectly acceptable.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  â€”Tom<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at
                        8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically
                        asking two questions:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a service?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic
                        of a slice?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing accuracy is
                        an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be
                        virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is
                        fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a
                        "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by
                        default on all resources. As an example, mobile
                        traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE
                        capable links only. In such scenario a client
                        would notÂ  require to dynamically instantiate
                        timing on links but could instantiate a "slice"
                        on a set of timing enabled links.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as
                        with SRLG whereby two slices could be created
                        avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical
                        topology dictating the fate, not the number of
                        virtualized connections carried.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean
                        constructs like described in<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57,
                        "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                        on behalf of
                        <a href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele
                        Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be possible to
                        have a scenario in which we need synchronization
                        for a slice which is built on top of a non
                        synchronized network?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is a very good Russian
                        saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  English equivalent is "You
                        cannot have your cake and eat it too".<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  It is easier to implement
                        sync at the lower layer and share it out than<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  to guarantee that some or
                        all of the virtual overlays will have jitter<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  within the limits required
                        for 4G or onwards sync.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  We cannot cater for every
                        possible requirement. There are reasonable and<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  unreasonable asks.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  That does not mean that
                        there is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is an open question of
                        how to share (with all relevant SLA<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  restrictions) a common
                        underlying time sync service securely between<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  multiple slices and what can
                        be the precision for that. One subcase of<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  this may be (note the very
                        big "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  slice which we can just
                        about guarantee and how do we fan it out at the<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  edge to all consumers as a
                        shared service.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  But definitely not:
                        "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  network as you see fit".<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  A.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking myself it this
                        would make sense.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a
                          href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                        On Behalf Of<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno
                        2017 11:44<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a
                          href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices]
                        Timing service<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do
                        with slicing?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a scenario
                        where a slice will need to peruse its own
                        special, different from everyone else time
                        synchronization as a common use case.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play with sync
                        as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test
                        particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not
                        see the network design rationale for per-slice
                        sync to get anywhere near requirements.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart
                        Bryant wrote:<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar
                        yesterday where it was explained that the<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for
                        5G are even stricter than they are for<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems (which
                        in itself is a challenge).<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were talking of a
                        200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency
                        requirements for timing services are different
                        from<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency
                        requirements of other services. They do not need<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency
                        (although that is nice to have) they need
                        latency<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and
                        latency symmetry.<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one question I have
                        is how we transmit the timing service. Does<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay
                        and provides time as a service to the NSI,<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go in a
                        single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br>
                        Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                          href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
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              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
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          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "'stewart.bryant'" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, <ggrammel@juniper.net>, <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "'AshwoodsmithPeter'" <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
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Subject: [Netslices] Distinguishing "slice types" [Was: Timing service]
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All, I think you are getting somewhere in the recognition of different =
types of
slice and slicing.
=20
Different types of slice would appear to have different applications, =
different
requirements of the underlying networks, different characteristics, etc.
=20
My view of this "problem space" from the outside is that the term =
"network
slice" is very (very, very) broadly defined. While the high level =
concept of
slicing is constant across all of these definitions, that is not =
actually very
helpful from the perspective of a technology development organisation.
High-level and wide-reaching architectural pictures have a value, but =
they are
normally something that the IETF works on.
=20
What we need (in order for the BoF to be a success) is to focus in on =
each
individual "type" of network slice. That should help us to understand =
what
protocol tools we will use, and what additional pieces need to be =
developed.
=20
The feeling that Gonzalo and I are getting is that it will be helpful to =
have
several talks on "What I mean by network slicing, what applications my =
slices
would serve, and what requirements I have on existing and developing =
protocol
components."
=20
We can start to talk about this on the call, but this approach would be =
about
dismantling the Grand Unification Theory of Network Slicing, and =
arriving at a
number of views of different pieces of the elephant. Gonzalo and I will =
need
help in identifying which pieces of elephant people care about, and who =
cares
most about each piece.
=20
(Note that an end result *might* be that everything falls into place and =
we see
a whole elephant. Or we may set the different pieces free to do the =
right work
in the relevant places.)
=20
Cheers,
Adrian
=20
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dongjie =
(Jimmy)
Sent: 21 June 2017 11:36
To: anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk; stewart.bryant; =
ggrammel@juniper.net;
gregimirsky@gmail.com; AshwoodsmithPeter
Cc: tnadeau@lucidvision.com; daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com; =
netslices@ietf.org
Subject: [Netslices] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Timing service
=20
So you suggest to use the term hard slice and soft (or virtual) slice to
differentiate the characteristic of different slices?=20

-Jie
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BAAnton Ivanov
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BAstewart.bryant,Gert Grammel,Greg Mirsky,Peter =
Ashwood-Smith
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BAThomas Nadeau,Daniele Ceccarelli,netslices@ietf.org
=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA2017-06-21 17:18:59
=D6=F7=CC=E2:Re: [Netslices] Timing service
=20
On 21/06/17 09:30, Stewart Bryant wrote:
=20
So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?

Phys slice is mostly out of IETF traditional scope. The only thing we =
should do
about it is modelling.

So, from that perspective, having hard and virtual sounds reasonable =
provided we
stick to the scope of what we can do and the model is compatible across =
both.



One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is physical =
for the
purposes of these discussions, although I am not sure what remapping to
re-arrange capacity will do for the quality of the time transfer.

Whatever a hard slice may be, it is not IETF material (except their =
model).
Ditto (even more so), for its delivery.

A.



- Stewart
=20
On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel wrote:
Greg,
=20
Before we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean with =
slicing. If
a slice *must* be virtualized, then there is not much we can do for ptp. =
If a
slice is something more amorph, a "physical slice" may exist. However my =
concern
in that case would be that the term "slice" is so broad that it can't be =
used
anymore for anything useable.
=20
Gert
=20
From: Greg Mirsky  <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> =
<gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03
To: AshwoodsmithPeter  <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
<Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
Cc: Gert Grammel  <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net> <ggrammel@juniper.net>, =
Stewart
Bryant  <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, =
Thomas
Nadeau  <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com> <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, =
Anton Ivanov
<mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> =
<anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>,
<mailto:netslices@ietf.org> "netslices@ietf.org"  =
<mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
<netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli
<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> =
<daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
=20
Hi Peter,=20
another consideration for network slicing may be scope of the network =
slice
domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale up than =
NTP
domain. It may be that certain quality of clock synchronization is =
indeed
physical property of the underlay.
=20
Regards,
Greg
=20
On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter
<Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com> wrote:
Hey Gert,

It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just offering it =
up for
discussion.

The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the physical =
topology
, the location of grand master clock sources and syncs and you have to =
compute a
pair of diverse trees, then you need to configure all the intermediate =
boundary
clocks adjust any differential errors, master slave relationships and =
fallback
behavior. You may also need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure =
it to
servers, radios etc.

So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.

The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does not make =
that
much difference really and of course some normal (non-timing) slices =
would
require physical resources possibly end to end.

Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you need looks =
a lot
like some of the functions of a slice orchestrator where the resulting =
slice
provides services to all the other slices.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Gert Grammel [mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM
To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>; Stewart Bryant
<stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>; netslices@ietf.org; =
Daniele
Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service

Peter,

Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?
I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice" a bit too far.

Gert

On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter" =
<Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com> wrote:

    The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents the =
timing to be
its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical links, sources of grand =
master,
and who needs what levels of precision. It can compute where the =
boundary clocks
go and establish primary and backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the =
mechanisms
that are used to control slices can be used to control two bare metal =
timing
'slices'.

    Either that or have a completely different mechanism to manage them =
but
there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to =
create a
primary and backup timing 'slices'.

    Peter


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Stewart
Bryant
    Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
    To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>; Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.
net>
    Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>; =
netslices@ietf.org;
Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
    Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service


    Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided by the =
fabric
to a slice if needed.

    I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, and =
people are
beginning not to trust GPS.

    - Stewart

    On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
    >   I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement then. =
8)
    >
    >   =A1=AATom
    >
    >> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel
<ggrammel@juniper.net> wrote:
    >>
    >> Hi Tom, Stewart,
    >>
    >> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually asking =
to build
timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be left to the =
underlying
physical layer: "=A1=AD timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical =
layer that
cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=A1=AD". If my reading is correct, =
we seem to
share that view.
    >> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that =
support a
given timing requirement if that constraint was given.
    >>
    >> Gert
    >>
    >> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau"
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>          Gert:
    >>
    >>          I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use =
cases
require a timing service to be available to it.
    >>     I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some
specification.  However, aside from that
    >>     there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have that =
service
encased within the
    >>     slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is not =
a
requirement - running a bare metal
    >>     version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=A1=AD =
seems perfectly
acceptable.
    >>
    >>          =A1=AATom
    >>
    >>
    >>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net>
wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Daniele, Anton,
    >>>
    >>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
    >>> 1) Is timing a service?
    >>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
    >>>
    >>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer =
that
cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). =
It is
reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by =
default
on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be =
transported on
SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would not  require =
to
dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a "slice" =
on a set
of timing enabled links.
    >>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could =
be
created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology =
dictating the
fate, not the number of virtualized connections carried.
    >>>
    >>> Thoughts?
    >>>
    >>> Gert
    >>>
    >>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
    >>> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici
    >>> ng-00
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov"
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> =
wrote:
    >>>
    >>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
    >>>> Hi Anton,
    >>>>
    >>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need
synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized =
network?
    >>>    There is a very good Russian saying =
"=A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=DD=A7=EE=A7=D9=A7=F1 =
=A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=A7=EE =A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=E0
=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=A7=DF=A7=E0=A7=D6". The
    >>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat it =
too".
    >>>
    >>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and share =
it out
than
    >>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will =
have
jitter
    >>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
    >>>
    >>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are =
reasonable
and
    >>>    unreasonable asks.
    >>>
    >>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to the =
whole
thing.
    >>>    There is an open question of how to share (with all relevant =
SLA
    >>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely =
between
    >>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. One =
subcase
of
    >>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just one) =
sync
enabled
    >>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan it =
out at
the
    >>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
    >>>
    >>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled =
slices on a
    >>>    network as you see fit".
    >>>
    >>>    A.
    >>>
    >>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
    >>>>
    >>>> BR
    >>>> Daniele
    >>>>
    >>>> -----Original Message-----
    >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
    >>>> Anton Ivanov
    >>>> Sent: marted=A8=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
    >>>> To: netslices@ietf.org
    >>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
    >>>>
    >>>> Err...
    >>>>
    >>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
    >>>>
    >>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its =
own
special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common =
use case.
    >>>>
    >>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, =
disprove or
test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network =
design
rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.
    >>>>
    >>>> A.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
    >>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that =
the
    >>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for
    >>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
    >>>>>
    >>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected =
from 2020.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different =
from
    >>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They do not need
    >>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they need =
latency
    >>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. =
Does
    >>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the =
NSI,
    >>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple =
slices?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> - Stewart
    >>>>>
    >>>>> _______________________________________________
    >>>>> Netslices mailing list
    >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org
    >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
    >>>>>
    >>>> _______________________________________________
    >>>> Netslices mailing list
    >>>> Netslices@ietf.org
    >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
    >>>>
    >>>    _______________________________________________
    >>>    Netslices mailing list
    >>>    Netslices@ietf.org
    >>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> _______________________________________________
    >>> Netslices mailing list
    >>> Netslices@ietf.org
    >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
    >>     _______________________________________________
    >>     Netslices mailing list
    >>     Netslices@ietf.org
    >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
    >>
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> Netslices mailing list
    >> Netslices@ietf.org
    >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
    > _______________________________________________
    > Netslices mailing list
    > Netslices@ietf.org
    > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices

    _______________________________________________
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>All, I think you are getting somewhere in the =
recognition of different types of slice and =
slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Different types of slice would appear to have =
different applications, different requirements of the underlying =
networks, different characteristics, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>My view of this &quot;problem space&quot; from the =
outside is that the term &quot;network slice&quot; is very (very, very) =
broadly defined. While the high level concept of slicing is constant =
across all of these definitions, that is not actually very helpful from =
the perspective of a technology development organisation. High-level and =
wide-reaching architectural pictures have a value, but they are normally =
something that the IETF works on.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>What we need (in order for the BoF to be a =
success) is to focus in on each individual &quot;type&quot; of network =
slice. That should help us to understand what protocol tools we will =
use, and what additional pieces need to be =
developed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>The feeling that Gonzalo and I are getting is that =
it will be helpful to have several talks on &quot;What I mean by network =
slicing, what applications my slices would serve, and what requirements =
I have on existing and developing protocol =
components.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>We can start to talk about this on the call, but =
this approach would be about dismantling the Grand Unification Theory of =
Network Slicing, and arriving at a number of views of different pieces =
of the elephant. Gonzalo and I will need help in identifying which =
pieces of elephant people care about, and who cares most about each =
piece.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>(Note that an end result *might* be that =
everything falls into place and we see a whole elephant. Or we may set =
the different pieces free to do the right work in the relevant =
places.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'> Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf =
Of </b>Dongjie (Jimmy)<br><b>Sent:</b> 21 June 2017 11:36<br><b>To:</b> =
anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk; stewart.bryant; ggrammel@juniper.net; =
gregimirsky@gmail.com; AshwoodsmithPeter<br><b>Cc:</b> =
tnadeau@lucidvision.com; daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com; =
netslices@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Netslices] </span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'>: Timing service<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>So you =
suggest to use the term hard slice and soft (or virtual) slice to =
differentiate the characteristic of different slices? =
<br><br>-Jie<o:p></o:p></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;mso-border-top-alt:solid #B5C4DF .75pt;padding:6.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm' =
name=3DAnyOffice-Background-Image><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:"Times=
 New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Anton =
Ivanov<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:"Times=
 New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>stewart.bryant,Gert Grammel,Greg Mirsky,Peter =
Ashwood-Smith<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:"Times=
 New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Thomas Nadeau,Daniele =
Ceccarelli,netslices@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:"Times=
 New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>2017-06-21 =
17:18:59<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:"Times=
 New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Re: [Netslices] Timing =
service<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div><div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 21/06/17 09:30, Stewart Bryant =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
>So do we need the terms physical and virtual =
slice?<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>Phys slice is =
mostly out of IETF traditional scope. The only thing we should do about =
it is modelling.<br><br>So, from that perspective, having hard and =
virtual sounds reasonable provided we stick to the scope of what we can =
do and the model is compatible across both.<br><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'><![endif]><o:p></o:p></p><p>On=
e method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is physical =
for the purposes of these discussions, although I am not sure what =
remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the quality of the time =
transfer.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>Whatever a hard slice =
may be, it is not IETF material (except their model). Ditto (even more =
so), for its delivery.<br><br>A.<br><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'><![endif]><o:p></o:p></p><p>- =
Stewart<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Greg,</span=
><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Before we =
go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean with slicing. If a =
slice *<b>must</b>* be virtualized, then there is not much we can do for =
ptp. If a slice is something more amorph, a &quot;physical slice&quot; =
may exist. However my concern in that case would be that the term =
&quot;slice&quot; is so broad that it can't be used anymore for anything =
useable.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Gert</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Greg Mirsky <a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">&lt;gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;</a><b=
r><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03<br><b>To: =
</b>AshwoodsmithPeter <a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huaw=
ei.com&gt;</a><br><b>Cc: </b>Gert Grammel <a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">&lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;</a>, =
Stewart Bryant <a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">&lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;=
</a>, Thomas Nadeau <a =
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">&lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;</=
a>, Anton Ivanov <a =
href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">&lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begem=
ot.co.uk&gt;</a>, <a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">&quot;netslices@ietf.org&quot;</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">&lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a>, =
Daniele Ceccarelli <a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">&lt;daniele.ceccarelli@er=
icsson.com&gt;</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Netslices] Timing =
service</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Peter, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>another consideration for network slicing may be scope =
of the network slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more =
difficult to scale up than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of =
clock synchronization is indeed physical property of the =
underlay.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Greg<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Tue, =
Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com" =
target=3D"_blank">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hey Gert,<br><br>It was an observation. I =
don't know the best solution. Just offering it up for =
discussion.<br><br>The point is that to configure the timing you need to =
know the physical topology , the location of grand master clock sources =
and syncs and you have to compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need =
to configure all the intermediate boundary clocks adjust any =
differential errors, master slave relationships and fallback behavior. =
You may also need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it to =
servers, radios etc.<br><br>So it starts to look a lot like configuring =
a slice.<br><br>The fact the resources are physical as opposed to =
virtual does not make that much difference really and of course some =
normal (non-timing) slices would require physical resources possibly end =
to end.<br><br>Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what =
you need looks a lot like some of the functions of a slice orchestrator =
where the resulting slice provides services to all the other =
slices.<br><br>Peter<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Gert Grammel =
[mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>]<br>Sent: =
Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br>To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.c=
om</a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
; Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.c=
o.uk</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele =
Ceccarelli &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericss=
on.com</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing =
service<br><br>Peter,<br><br>Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of =
a network slice?<br>I think that is stretching the meaning of =
&quot;slice&quot; a bit too far.<br><br>Gert<br><br>On 2017-06-20, =
20:52, &quot;AshwoodsmithPeter&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; The only subtle point I would =
make is that nothing prevents the timing to be its own 'slice', its =
aware of all the physical links, sources of grand master,&nbsp; and who =
needs what levels of precision. It can compute where the boundary clocks =
go and establish primary and backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the =
mechanisms that are used to control slices can be used to control two =
bare metal timing 'slices'.<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; Either that or have a =
completely different mechanism to manage them but there is a certain =
elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to create a primary and =
backup timing 'slices'.<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; Peter<br><br><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; -----Original Message-----<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; From: Netslices =
[mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Tuesday, June 20, =
2017 2:07 PM<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;; =
Gert Grammel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>&nbs=
p; &nbsp; Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.c=
o.uk</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele =
Ceccarelli &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericss=
on.com</a>&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing =
service<br><br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, I suspect that timing is an =
underlying resource provided by the fabric to a slice if =
needed.<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; I raised the subject because timing is so =
important to 5G, and people are beginning not to trust =
GPS.<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; - Stewart<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; On 20/06/2017 =
18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;I think =
you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement then. 8)<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;=A1=AATom<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, =
Gert Grammel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, =
Stewart,<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Perhaps my =
writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually asking to build timing =
slices and I was arguing that timing should be left to the underlying =
physical layer: &quot;=A1=AD timing accuracy is an attribute of a =
physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=A1=AD&quot;. If =
my reading is correct, we seem to share that view.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that =
support a given timing requirement if that constraint was =
given.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
Gert<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, =
16:33, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
 on behalf of <a =
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Gert:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I =
think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use cases require a =
timing service to be available to it.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to some =
specification.&nbsp; However, aside from that<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;there does not seem to be any =
requirement/need to have that service encased within the<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;slice.&nbsp; In essence, =
virtualization of the 1588 service is not a requirement - running a bare =
metal<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;version that is =
shared amongst all the slices, etc=A1=AD seems perfectly =
acceptable.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =A1=AATom<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun =
20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; =
Daniele, Anton,<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is basically asking two =
questions:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a =
service?<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a characteristic of =
a slice?<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; In =
my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that cannot =
be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is =
reasonable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where timing capabilities are =
enabled by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY =
need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a =
client would not&nbsp; require to dynamically instantiate timing on =
links but could instantiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set of timing =
enabled links.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work similar as =
with SRLG whereby two slices could be created avoiding fate sharing =
whereby it is the physical topology dictating the fate, not the number =
of virtualized connections carried.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I mean =
constructs like described in<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-sl=
ici" =
target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicabili=
ty-actn-slici</a><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; =
On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
 on behalf of <a =
href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.c=
o.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli =
wrote:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be =
possible to have a scenario in which we need synchronization for a slice =
which is built on top of a non synchronized network?<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is a very good Russian saying =
&quot;=A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=DD=A7=EE=A7=D9=A7=F1 =
=A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=A7=EE =
=A7=DF=A7=D6=A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=A7=DF=A7=E0=A7=D6&quot;. =
The<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; English equivalent is =
&quot;You cannot have your cake and eat it too&quot;.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; It is easier to =
implement sync at the lower layer and share it out than<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; to guarantee that some or all of the virtual =
overlays will have jitter<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; We cannot cater =
for every possible requirement. There are reasonable and<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; unreasonable asks.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; That does not =
mean that there is no time sync aspect to the whole thing.<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is an open question of how to =
share (with all relevant SLA<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
restrictions) a common underlying time sync service securely =
between<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; multiple slices and =
what can be the precision for that. One subcase of<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; this may be (note the very big =
&quot;may&quot;) having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; slice which we can just about guarantee and =
how do we fan it out at the<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
edge to all consumers as a shared service.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; But definitely =
not: &quot;Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on a<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; network as you see fit&quot;.<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
A.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just =
asking myself it this would make sense.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
] On Behalf Of<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=A8=AC 20 giugno 2017 =
11:44<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing =
service<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a =
scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own special, different =
from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case.<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can =
play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test =
particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design =
rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near =
requirements.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, =
Stewart Bryant wrote:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a =
5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than =
they are for<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing systems =
(which in itself is a challenge).<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were =
talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2020.<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The =
latency requirements for timing services are different from<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency requirements of other services. =
They do not need<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum latency =
(although that is nice to have) they need latency<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently and latency symmetry.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one =
question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay and provides time as a =
service to the NSI,<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go =
in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - =
Stewart<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
_______________________________________________<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
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Cc: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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> On Jun 21, 2017:6:51 AM, at 6:51 AM, Stewart Bryant =
<stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> So is slicing simply an abstraction?
>=20
> If so, then I sense that there are two focii here: the generation of =
the abstract description of a slice, and the conversion of the abstract =
view into a practical system that moves, reads and modifies bits.
>=20
> A key question is the extent to which the two focii need to be =
co-located.

	This is generally an exercise for the operator and really has =
nothing to do with what the IETF would ever specify, so we should just =
skip it.
The assumption must simply be that components of the service will be =
virtualized, physical or a mix and will depend on lots of variables that =
we just=20
cannot (or should not) worry about. The bottom line is that we should =
not assume any one of those things other than what the operator will =
invoke will=20
be done in order to make it work to their specification, which may or =
may not include performance requirements or regulatory requirements.=20

	As Anton said, this is a service description and largely a =
modeling exercise.=20

	=E2=80=94Tom


>=20
> - Stewart
>=20
>=20
> On 21/06/2017 10:23, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>> Hi Stewart, all,
>> =20
>> I don=E2=80=99t think so.
>> =20
>> Slicing is no more than an abstract view. How that view is =
built/engineered is actually up to the taste of each operator; further =
it is an internal business of the operator. =46rom where I sit, I see =
the slice can be packaged using physical, virtual or a combination =
thereof. How the slice is structured internally is not visible to third =
parties. As such, I don=E2=80=99t think we need to overload the =
terminology with new terms.
>> =20
>> Cheers,
>> Med
>> =20
>> De : Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] De la part de Stewart Bryant
>> Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 21 juin 2017 10:30
>> =C3=80 : Gert Grammel; Greg Mirsky; AshwoodsmithPeter
>> Cc : Thomas Nadeau; Anton Ivanov; netslices@ietf.org =
<mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>> Objet : Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>> =20
>> =20
>>=20
>> So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?
>>=20
>> One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is =
physical for the purposes of these discussions, although I am not sure =
what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the quality of the =
time transfer.
>>=20
>> - Stewart
>>=20
>> =20
>> On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel wrote:
>> Greg,
>> =20
>> Before we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean with =
slicing. If a slice *must* be virtualized, then there is not much we can =
do for ptp. If a slice is something more amorph, a "physical slice" may =
exist. However my concern in that case would be that the term "slice" is =
so broad that it can't be used anymore for anything useable.
>> =20
>> Gert
>> =20
>> From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> =
<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03
>> To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com> =
<mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
>> Cc: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net> =
<mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> =
<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau =
<tnadeau@lucidvision.com> <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov =
<anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> =
<mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" =
<mailto:netslices@ietf.org> <netslices@ietf.org> =
<mailto:netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli =
<daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> =
<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>> =20
>> Hi Peter,
>> another consideration for network slicing may be scope of the network =
slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale up =
than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of clock synchronization =
is indeed physical property of the underlay.
>> =20
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>> =20
>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter =
<Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> =
wrote:
>> Hey Gert,
>>=20
>> It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just offering =
it up for discussion.
>>=20
>> The point is that to configure the timing you need to know the =
physical topology , the location of grand master clock sources and syncs =
and you have to compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need to =
configure all the intermediate boundary clocks adjust any differential =
errors, master slave relationships and fallback behavior. You may also =
need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it to servers, radios =
etc.
>>=20
>> So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.
>>=20
>> The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual does not =
make that much difference really and of course some normal (non-timing) =
slices would require physical resources possibly end to end.
>>=20
>> Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what you need =
looks a lot like some of the functions of a slice orchestrator where the =
resulting slice provides services to all the other slices.
>>=20
>> Peter
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gert Grammel [mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net =
<mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM
>> To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com =
<mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>>; Stewart Bryant =
<stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; Thomas =
Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>
>> Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk =
<mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org =
<mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli =
<daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com =
<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>=20
>> Peter,
>>=20
>> Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?
>> I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice" a bit too far.
>>=20
>> Gert
>>=20
>> On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter" =
<Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>     The only subtle point I would make is that nothing prevents the =
timing to be its own 'slice', its aware of all the physical links, =
sources of grand master,  and who needs what levels of precision. It can =
compute where the boundary clocks go and establish primary and backup =
trees (disjoint MST's). So the mechanisms that are used to control =
slices can be used to control two bare metal timing 'slices'.
>>=20
>>     Either that or have a completely different mechanism to manage =
them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the slicing architecture =
to create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.
>>=20
>>     Peter
>>=20
>>=20
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
>>     Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
>>     To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com =
<mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net =
<mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>>
>>     Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk =
<mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org =
<mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli =
<daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com =
<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>>     Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>=20
>>=20
>>     Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource provided by =
the fabric to a slice if needed.
>>=20
>>     I raised the subject because timing is so important to 5G, and =
people are beginning not to trust GPS.
>>=20
>>     - Stewart
>>=20
>>     On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>>     >   I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement =
then. 8)
>>     >
>>     >   =E2=80=94Tom
>>     >
>>     >> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>>     >>
>>     >> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually =
asking to build timing slices and I was arguing that timing should be =
left to the underlying physical layer: "=E2=80=A6 timing accuracy is an =
attribute of a physical layer that cannot be =
virtualized/sliced/layered=E2=80=A6". If my reading is correct, we seem =
to share that view.
>>     >> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that =
support a given timing requirement if that constraint was given.
>>     >>
>>     >> Gert
>>     >>
>>     >> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau" =
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on =
behalf of tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>> =
wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>          Gert:
>>     >>
>>     >>          I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use =
cases require a timing service to be available to it.
>>     >>     I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to =
some specification.  However, aside from that
>>     >>     there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have =
that service encased within the
>>     >>     slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588 service is =
not a requirement - running a bare metal
>>     >>     version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 =
seems perfectly acceptable.
>>     >>
>>     >>          =E2=80=94Tom
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel =
<ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Daniele, Anton,
>>     >>>
>>     >>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>>     >>> 1) Is timing a service?
>>     >>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>>     >>>
>>     >>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical =
layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate =
sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a "slice" where timing =
capabilities are enabled by default on all resources. As an example, =
mobile traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. =
In such scenario a client would not  require to dynamically instantiate =
timing on links but could instantiate a "slice" on a set of timing =
enabled links.
>>     >>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices =
could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical =
topology dictating the fate, not the number of virtualized connections =
carried.
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Thoughts?
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Gert
>>     >>>
>>     >>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
>>     >>> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici>
>>     >>> ng-00
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" =
<netslices-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on =
behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk =
<mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>> wrote:
>>     >>>
>>     >>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>     >>>> Hi Anton,
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need =
synchronization for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized =
network?
>>     >>>    There is a very good Russian saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=
=D0=B7=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=
=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The
>>     >>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake and eat =
it too".
>>     >>>
>>     >>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and =
share it out than
>>     >>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays will =
have jitter
>>     >>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>>     >>>
>>     >>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There are =
reasonable and
>>     >>>    unreasonable asks.
>>     >>>
>>     >>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to =
the whole thing.
>>     >>>    There is an open question of how to share (with all =
relevant SLA
>>     >>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync service =
securely between
>>     >>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. =
One subcase of
>>     >>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE (just =
one) sync enabled
>>     >>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fan =
it out at the
>>     >>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>>     >>>
>>     >>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync enabled =
slices on a
>>     >>>    network as you see fit".
>>     >>>
>>     >>>    A.
>>     >>>
>>     >>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> BR
>>     >>>> Daniele
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> -----Original Message-----
>>     >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of
>>     >>>> Anton Ivanov
>>     >>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>>     >>>> To: netslices@ietf.org <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>>     >>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> Err...
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse =
its own special, different from everyone else time synchronization as a =
common use case.
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, =
disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the =
network design rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near =
requirements.
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> A.
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>     >>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that =
the
>>     >>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are =
for
>>     >>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>     >>>>>
>>     >>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected =
from 2020.
>>     >>>>>
>>     >>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are different =
from
>>     >>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They do not =
need
>>     >>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they need =
latency
>>     >>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
>>     >>>>>
>>     >>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the timing =
service. Does
>>     >>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the =
NSI,
>>     >>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple =
slices?
>>     >>>>>
>>     >>>>> - Stewart
>>     >>>>>
>>     >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>     >>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>     >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>     >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>     >>>>>
>>     >>>> _______________________________________________
>>     >>>> Netslices mailing list
>>     >>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>     >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>    _______________________________________________
>>     >>>    Netslices mailing list
>>     >>>    Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>     >>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>> _______________________________________________
>>     >>> Netslices mailing list
>>     >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>     >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>     >>     _______________________________________________
>>     >>     Netslices mailing list
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<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>     >>
>>     >>
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>>     >> Netslices mailing list
>>     >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>     > _______________________________________________
>>     > Netslices mailing list
>>     > Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>=20
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Netslices mailing list
>>     Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices>
>> =20
>> =20
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jun 21, 2017:6:51 AM, at 6:51 AM, Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8" class=3D"">
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" class=3D""><p class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">
    </p>
    So is slicing simply an abstraction?<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    If so, then I sense that there are two focii here: the generation of
    the abstract description of a slice, and the conversion of the
    abstract view into a practical system that moves, reads and modifies
    bits.<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    A key question is the extent to which the two focii need to be
    co-located.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">=
	</span>This is generally an exercise for the operator and really =
has nothing to do with what the IETF would ever specify, so we should =
just skip it.</div><div>The assumption must simply be that components of =
the service will be virtualized, physical or a mix and will depend on =
lots of variables that we just&nbsp;</div><div>cannot (or should not) =
worry about. The bottom line is that we should not assume any one of =
those things other than what the operator will invoke =
will&nbsp;</div><div>be done in order to make it work to their =
specification, which may or may not include performance requirements or =
regulatory requirements.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>As&nbsp;Anton said, this is a service description and largely a =
modeling exercise.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>=E2=80=94Tom</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    - Stewart<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 21/06/2017 10:23,
      <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<=
/a> wrote:<br class=3D"">
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FF5C55@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate=
.adroot.infra.ftgroup" class=3D"">
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      <div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" class=3D"">Hi Stewart, all,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">I don=E2=80=99=
t think so.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Slicing is =
no more than
            an abstract view. How that view is built/engineered is
            actually up to the taste of each operator; further it is an
            internal business of the operator. =46rom where I sit, I see
            the slice can be packaged using physical, virtual or a
            combination thereof. How the slice is structured internally
            is not visible to third parties. As such, I don=E2=80=99t =
think we
            need to overload the terminology with new terms. <o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Cheers,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Med<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:black" lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0cm
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt" class=3D"">
          <div class=3D"">
            <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:windowtext" class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:windowtext" class=3D"">
                  Netslices [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.o=
rg</a>]
                  <b class=3D"">De la part de</b> Stewart Bryant<br =
class=3D"">
                  <b class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b> mercredi 21 juin =
2017 10:30<br class=3D"">
                  <b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b> Gert Grammel; Greg =
Mirsky;
                  AshwoodsmithPeter<br class=3D"">
                  <b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b> Thomas Nadeau; Anton =
Ivanov;
                  <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a>; Daniele =
Ceccarelli<br class=3D"">
                  <b class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [Netslices] Timing =
service<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"">So do we need =
the terms physical and virtual slice?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"">One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that
            is physical for the purposes of these discussions, although
            I am not sure what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do
            for the quality of the time transfer.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"">- Stewart<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
          <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 20/06/2017 22:23, =
Gert Grammel
              wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Greg,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Before
                we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean
                with slicing. If a slice *<b class=3D"">must</b>* be =
virtualized,
                then there is not much we can do for ptp. If a slice is
                something more amorph, a "physical slice" may exist.
                However my concern in that case would be that the term
                "slice" is so broad that it can't be used anymore for
                anything useable.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Gert</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
            <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" =
class=3D"">From:
                  </span>
                </b><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" =
class=3D"">Greg
                  Mirsky <a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">
                    &lt;gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;</a><br class=3D"">
                  <b class=3D"">Date: </b>Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at =
22:03<br class=3D"">
                  <b class=3D"">To: </b>AshwoodsmithPeter <a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">&lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&gt;</a><br class=3D"">
                  <b class=3D"">Cc: </b>Gert Grammel <a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">&lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;</a>,
                  Stewart Bryant
                  <a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">&lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;</a>,
                  Thomas Nadeau
                  <a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">&lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;</a>,
                  Anton Ivanov
                  <a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">&lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;</a>,
                  <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">"netslices@ietf.org"</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">
                    &lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Daniele Ceccarelli =
<a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">
                    &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br =
class=3D"">
                  <b class=3D"">Subject: </b>Re: [Netslices] Timing =
service</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Peter, <o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
              <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">another =
consideration for network
                  slicing may be scope of the network slice domain. PTP
                  domain, as I understand, is more difficult to scale up
                  than NTP domain. It may be that certain quality of
                  clock synchronization is indeed physical property of
                  the underlay.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
              <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 20, =
2017 at 2:54 PM,
                  AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
                <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC
                  1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
=
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.=
0pt" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hey Gert,<br class=3D"">
                    <br class=3D"">
                    It was an observation. I don't know the best
                    solution. Just offering it up for discussion.<br =
class=3D"">
                    <br class=3D"">
                    The point is that to configure the timing you need
                    to know the physical topology , the location of
                    grand master clock sources and syncs and you have to
                    compute a pair of diverse trees, then you need to
                    configure all the intermediate boundary clocks
                    adjust any differential errors, master slave
                    relationships and fallback behavior. You may also
                    need to bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it
                    to servers, radios etc.<br class=3D"">
                    <br class=3D"">
                    So it starts to look a lot like configuring a =
slice.<br class=3D"">
                    <br class=3D"">
                    The fact the resources are physical as opposed to
                    virtual does not make that much difference really
                    and of course some normal (non-timing) slices would
                    require physical resources possibly end to end.<br =
class=3D"">
                    <br class=3D"">
                    Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that
                    what you need looks a lot like some of the functions
                    of a slice orchestrator where the resulting slice
                    provides services to all the other slices.<br =
class=3D"">
                    <br class=3D"">
                    Peter<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
                  <div class=3D"">
                    <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br class=3D"">=

                        -----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">
                        From: Gert Grammel [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>]<br class=3D"">
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br =
class=3D"">
                        To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;;
                        Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
                        Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                        <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                        Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service<br =
class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        Peter,<br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a
                        network slice?<br class=3D"">
                        I think that is stretching the meaning of
                        "slice" a bit too far.<br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        Gert<br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; The only subtle point I would make =
is that
                        nothing prevents the timing to be its own
                        'slice', its aware of all the physical links,
                        sources of grand master,&nbsp; and who needs =
what
                        levels of precision. It can compute where the
                        boundary clocks go and establish primary and
                        backup trees (disjoint MST's). So the mechanisms
                        that are used to control slices can be used to
                        control two bare metal timing 'slices'.<br =
class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; Either that or have a completely =
different
                        mechanism to manage them but there is a certain
                        elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to
                        create a primary and backup timing 'slices'.<br =
class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; Peter<br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; From: Netslices [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                        On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 =
PM<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;;
                        Gert Grammel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                        <a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                        Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing =
service<br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, I suspect that timing is an =
underlying
                        resource provided by the fabric to a slice if
                        needed.<br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; I raised the subject because =
timing is so
                        important to 5G, and people are beginning not to
                        trust GPS.<br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; - Stewart<br class=3D"">
                        <br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau =
wrote:<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;I think you, =
Anton, Stewart and I are
                        in violent agreement then. 8)<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;=E2=80=94Tom<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, =
at 12:40
                        PM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was =
too cryptic.
                        Daniele was actually asking to build timing
                        slices and I was arguing that timing should be
                        left to the underlying physical layer: "=E2=80=A6 =
timing
                        accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer
                        that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=E2=80=A6=
". If
                        my reading is correct, we seem to share that
                        view.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can =
do is to
                        filter for resources that support a given timing
                        requirement if that constraint was given.<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Gert<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33, =
"Netslices on
                        behalf of Thomas Nadeau" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                        on behalf of
                        <a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; Gert:<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; I think its a bit simpler
                        than that. The slicing use cases require a
                        timing service to be available to it.<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;I =
assume that service must be
                        accurate and reliable to some =
specification.&nbsp;
                        However, aside from that<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;there =
does not seem to be any
                        requirement/need to have that service encased
                        within the<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;slice.&nbsp; In essence,
                        virtualization of the 1588 service is not a
                        requirement - running a bare metal<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;version that is shared amongst
                        all the slices, etc=E2=80=A6 seems perfectly =
acceptable.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; =E2=80=94Tom<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 =
AM, at
                        8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is =
basically
                        asking two questions:<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a =
service?<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a =
characteristic
                        of a slice?<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing =
accuracy is
                        an attribute of a physical layer that cannot be
                        virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is
                        fate sharing). It is reasonable to imagine a
                        "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by
                        default on all resources. As an example, mobile
                        traffic MAY need to be transported on SyncE
                        capable links only. In such scenario a client
                        would not&nbsp; require to dynamically =
instantiate
                        timing on links but could instantiate a "slice"
                        on a set of timing enabled links.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work =
similar as
                        with SRLG whereby two slices could be created
                        avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical
                        topology dictating the fate, not the number of
                        virtualized connections carried.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I =
mean
                        constructs like described in<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-sli=
ci" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">
=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici</a><b=
r class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57,
                        "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                        on behalf of
                        <a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;=

                        wrote:<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; On =
20/06/17 11:22, Daniele
                        Ceccarelli wrote:<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be =
possible to
                        have a scenario in which we need synchronization
                        for a slice which is built on top of a non
                        synchronized network?<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is =
a very good Russian
                        saying "=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D1=8F =
=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8A=D1=8F=D1=
=82=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B5". The<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; English =
equivalent is "You
                        cannot have your cake and eat it too".<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; It is =
easier to implement
                        sync at the lower layer and share it out than<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; to =
guarantee that some or
                        all of the virtual overlays will have jitter<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; within =
the limits required
                        for 4G or onwards sync.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; We =
cannot cater for every
                        possible requirement. There are reasonable =
and<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
unreasonable asks.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; That =
does not mean that
                        there is no time sync aspect to the whole =
thing.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; There is =
an open question of
                        how to share (with all relevant SLA<br class=3D"">=

                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
restrictions) a common
                        underlying time sync service securely between<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; multiple =
slices and what can
                        be the precision for that. One subcase of<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; this may =
be (note the very
                        big "may") having ONE (just one) sync enabled<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; slice =
which we can just
                        about guarantee and how do we fan it out at =
the<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; edge to =
all consumers as a
                        shared service.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; But =
definitely not:
                        "Allocate as many time-sync enabled slices on =
a<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; network =
as you see fit".<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; A.<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking =
myself it this
                        would make sense.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                        On Behalf Of<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=C3=AC =
20 giugno
                        2017 11:44<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">netslices@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: =
[Netslices]
                        Timing service<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have =
to do
                        with slicing?<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a =
scenario
                        where a slice will need to peruse its own
                        special, different from everyone else time
                        synchronization as a common use case.<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play =
with sync
                        as a one-off use case to prove, disprove or test
                        particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not
                        see the network design rationale for per-slice
                        sync to get anywhere near requirements.<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17 =
12:17, Stewart
                        Bryant wrote:<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G =
seminar
                        yesterday where it was explained that the<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing =
requirements for
                        5G are even stricter than they are for<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing =
systems (which
                        in itself is a challenge).<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were =
talking of a
                        200ns requirement with 20ns expected from =
2020.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency
                        requirements for timing services are different
                        from<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency
                        requirements of other services. They do not =
need<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum =
latency
                        (although that is nice to have) they need
                        latency<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently =
and
                        latency symmetry.<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one =
question I have
                        is how we transmit the timing service. Does<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the =
underlay
                        and provides time as a service to the NSI,<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go =
in a
                        single slice, or does it go in multiple =
slices?<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br =
class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
                        &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                        =
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
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To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
Cc: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk> <908AE48F-E320-4049-97DE-8C61E929C31F@juniper.net> <1CC049B7-4E32-46BA-97C8-591482135694@lucidvision.com> <5E9B710B-7072-4FC3-98D5-FD019C38121A@juniper.net> <F8982121-9BC8-4CEA-95DE-D745A6BD2726@lucidvision.com> <ddb74f1f-c32b-805f-7d04-200c5831b6c5@gmail.com> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325B92@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <B965160E-2BDE-4B83-A524-1349030B9242@juniper.net> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325BD8@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmUj2Gn-Ypq6jnhCLiCUDttt_rauzbMMsB1MqfWpdxfNZQ@mail.gmail.com> <9D01BF12-86FE-4D0D-ACBE-0F396C13290A@juniper.net> <fd391c23-8901-92ef-da66-1482e9365c16@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FF5C55@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <c830aab9-31b9-4b2a-50ab-b98a33b9c6de@gmail.com> <37490688-B2FD-41F9-9634-2E3D241C97C4@lucidvision.com>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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On 21/06/2017 12:11, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>
>> On Jun 21, 2017:6:51 AM, at 6:51 AM, Stewart Bryant 
>> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So is slicing simply an abstraction?
>>
>> If so, then I sense that there are two focii here: the generation of 
>> the abstract description of a slice, and the conversion of the 
>> abstract view into a practical system that moves, reads and modifies 
>> bits.
>>
>> A key question is the extent to which the two focii need to be 
>> co-located.
>
> This is generally an exercise for the operator and really has nothing 
> to do with what the IETF would ever specify, so we should just skip it.
> The assumption must simply be that components of the service will be 
> virtualized, physical or a mix and will depend on lots of variables 
> that we just
> cannot (or should not) worry about. The bottom line is that we should 
> not assume any one of those things other than what the operator will 
> invoke will
> be done in order to make it work to their specification, which may or 
> may not include performance requirements or regulatory requirements.
>
> As Anton said, this is a service description and largely a modeling 
> exercise.
>
> â€”Tom
>

Tom

Which part?

It is in scope for the IETF to modify as necessary the operation of any 
components (for which it is responsible) in the packet layers that 
require change to deliver the required services.

- Stewart


>
>>
>> - Stewart
>>
>>
>> On 21/06/2017 10:23, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Stewart, all,
>>>
>>> I donâ€™t think so.
>>>
>>> Slicing is no more than an abstract view. How that view is 
>>> built/engineered is actually up to the taste of each operator; 
>>> further it is an internal business of the operator. From where I 
>>> sit, I see the slice can be packaged using physical, virtual or a 
>>> combination thereof. How the slice is structured internally is not 
>>> visible to third parties. As such, I donâ€™t think we need to overload 
>>> the terminology with new terms.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Med
>>>
>>> *De :*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* 
>>> Stewart Bryant
>>> *EnvoyÃ© :* mercredi 21 juin 2017 10:30
>>> *Ã€ :* Gert Grammel; Greg Mirsky; AshwoodsmithPeter
>>> *Cc :* Thomas Nadeau; Anton Ivanov; netslices@ietf.org; Daniele 
>>> Ceccarelli
>>> *Objet :* Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>
>>> So do we need the terms physical and virtual slice?
>>>
>>> One method of delivering a hard slice is via FlexE and that is 
>>> physical for the purposes of these discussions, although I am not 
>>> sure what remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the quality 
>>> of the time transfer.
>>>
>>> - Stewart
>>>
>>> On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert Grammel wrote:
>>>
>>>     Greg,
>>>
>>>     Before we go too far, I think we have to agree on what we mean
>>>     with slicing. If a slice **must** be virtualized, then there is
>>>     not much we can do for ptp. If a slice is something more amorph,
>>>     a "physical slice" may exist. However my concern in that case
>>>     would be that the term "slice" is so broad that it can't be used
>>>     anymore for anything useable.
>>>
>>>     Gert
>>>
>>>     *From: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>>     <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>>     *Date: *Tuesday, 20. June 2017 at 22:03
>>>     *To: *AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
>>>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
>>>     *Cc: *Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>, Stewart Bryant
>>>     <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>,
>>>     Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
>>>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov
>>>     <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>
>>>     <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org"
>>>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org> <netslices@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli
>>>     <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
>>>     <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
>>>     *Subject: *Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>
>>>     Hi Peter,
>>>
>>>     another consideration for network slicing may be scope of the
>>>     network slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand, is more
>>>     difficult to scale up than NTP domain. It may be that certain
>>>     quality of clock synchronization is indeed physical property of
>>>     the underlay.
>>>
>>>     Regards,
>>>
>>>     Greg
>>>
>>>     On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter
>>>     <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>>>     <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hey Gert,
>>>
>>>         It was an observation. I don't know the best solution. Just
>>>         offering it up for discussion.
>>>
>>>         The point is that to configure the timing you need to know
>>>         the physical topology , the location of grand master clock
>>>         sources and syncs and you have to compute a pair of diverse
>>>         trees, then you need to configure all the intermediate
>>>         boundary clocks adjust any differential errors, master slave
>>>         relationships and fallback behavior. You may also need to
>>>         bring this into a DC/CRAN and configure it to servers,
>>>         radios etc.
>>>
>>>         So it starts to look a lot like configuring a slice.
>>>
>>>         The fact the resources are physical as opposed to virtual
>>>         does not make that much difference really and of course some
>>>         normal (non-timing) slices would require physical resources
>>>         possibly end to end.
>>>
>>>         Anyway I'm not advocating it, just pointing out that what
>>>         you need looks a lot like some of the functions of a slice
>>>         orchestrator where the resulting slice provides services to
>>>         all the other slices.
>>>
>>>         Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>         -----Original Message-----
>>>         From: Gert Grammel [mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net
>>>         <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>]
>>>         Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM
>>>         To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>>>         <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>>; Stewart Bryant
>>>         <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; Thomas Nadeau
>>>         <tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>
>>>         Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>>>         <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>>>         <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>>>         <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>         <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>>>         Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>
>>>         Peter,
>>>
>>>         Do you suggest a de-virtualized version of a network slice?
>>>         I think that is stretching the meaning of "slice" a bit too far.
>>>
>>>         Gert
>>>
>>>         On 2017-06-20, 20:52, "AshwoodsmithPeter"
>>>         <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com
>>>         <mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             The only subtle point I would make is that nothing
>>>         prevents the timing to be its own 'slice', its aware of all
>>>         the physical links, sources of grand master,  and who needs
>>>         what levels of precision. It can compute where the boundary
>>>         clocks go and establish primary and backup trees (disjoint
>>>         MST's). So the mechanisms that are used to control slices
>>>         can be used to control two bare metal timing 'slices'.
>>>
>>>             Either that or have a completely different mechanism to
>>>         manage them but there is a certain elegance to reusing the
>>>         slicing architecture to create a primary and backup timing
>>>         'slices'.
>>>
>>>             Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>             -----Original Message-----
>>>             From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>>>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
>>>             Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM
>>>             To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>>>         <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; Gert Grammel
>>>         <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>>
>>>             Cc: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>>>         <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>>; netslices@ietf.org
>>>         <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>; Daniele Ceccarelli
>>>         <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>         <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
>>>             Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>
>>>
>>>             Yes, I suspect that timing is an underlying resource
>>>         provided by the fabric to a slice if needed.
>>>
>>>             I raised the subject because timing is so important to
>>>         5G, and people are beginning not to trust GPS.
>>>
>>>             - Stewart
>>>
>>>             On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>>>             >   I think you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent
>>>         agreement then. 8)
>>>             >
>>>             >   â€”Tom
>>>             >
>>>             >> On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel
>>>         <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>>>             >>
>>>             >> Hi Tom, Stewart,
>>>             >>
>>>             >> Perhaps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was
>>>         actually asking to build timing slices and I was arguing
>>>         that timing should be left to the underlying physical layer:
>>>         "â€¦ timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that
>>>         cannot be virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If my reading is
>>>         correct, we seem to share that view.
>>>             >> The maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources
>>>         that support a given timing requirement if that constraint
>>>         was given.
>>>             >>
>>>             >> Gert
>>>             >>
>>>             >> On 2017-06-20, 16:33, "Netslices on behalf of Thomas
>>>         Nadeau" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>>>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>>>         tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>> wrote:
>>>             >>
>>>             >>
>>>             >>          Gert:
>>>             >>
>>>             >>          I think its a bit simpler than that. The
>>>         slicing use cases require a timing service to be available
>>>         to it.
>>>             >>     I assume that service must be accurate and
>>>         reliable to some specification.  However, aside from that
>>>             >>     there does not seem to be any requirement/need to
>>>         have that service encased within the
>>>             >>     slice.  In essence, virtualization of the 1588
>>>         service is not a requirement - running a bare metal
>>>             >>     version that is shared amongst all the slices,
>>>         etcâ€¦ seems perfectly acceptable.
>>>             >>
>>>             >>          â€”Tom
>>>             >>
>>>             >>
>>>             >>> On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel
>>>         <ggrammel@juniper.net <mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net>> wrote:
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>> Daniele, Anton,
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>> this discussion is basically asking two questions:
>>>             >>> 1) Is timing a service?
>>>             >>> 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>> In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a
>>>         physical layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered
>>>         (another aspect is fate sharing). It is reasonable to
>>>         imagine a "slice" where timing capabilities are enabled by
>>>         default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY
>>>         need to be transported on SyncE capable links only. In such
>>>         scenario a client would not  require to dynamically
>>>         instantiate timing on links but could instantiate a "slice"
>>>         on a set of timing enabled links.
>>>             >>> So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two
>>>         slices could be created avoiding fate sharing whereby it is
>>>         the physical topology dictating the fate, not the number of
>>>         virtualized connections carried.
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>> Thoughts?
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>> Gert
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>> P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
>>>             >>>
>>>         https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici
>>>             >>> ng-00
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>> On 2017-06-20, 12:57, "Netslices on behalf of Anton
>>>         Ivanov" <netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>>>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
>>>         anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk
>>>         <mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>>    On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>             >>>> Hi Anton,
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>> wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which
>>>         we need synchronization for a slice which is built on top of
>>>         a non synchronized network?
>>>             >>>    There is a very good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ
>>>         Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The
>>>             >>>    English equivalent is "You cannot have your cake
>>>         and eat it too".
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>>    It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer
>>>         and share it out than
>>>             >>>    to guarantee that some or all of the virtual
>>>         overlays will have jitter
>>>             >>>    within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>>    We cannot cater for every possible requirement.
>>>         There are reasonable and
>>>             >>>    unreasonable asks.
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>>    That does not mean that there is no time sync
>>>         aspect to the whole thing.
>>>             >>>    There is an open question of how to share (with
>>>         all relevant SLA
>>>             >>>    restrictions) a common underlying time sync
>>>         service securely between
>>>             >>>    multiple slices and what can be the precision for
>>>         that. One subcase of
>>>             >>>    this may be (note the very big "may") having ONE
>>>         (just one) sync enabled
>>>             >>>    slice which we can just about guarantee and how
>>>         do we fan it out at the
>>>             >>>    edge to all consumers as a shared service.
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>>    But definitely not: "Allocate as many time-sync
>>>         enabled slices on a
>>>             >>>    network as you see fit".
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>>    A.
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>>> Just asking myself it this would make sense.
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>> BR
>>>             >>>> Daniele
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>             >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org
>>>         <mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of
>>>             >>>> Anton Ivanov
>>>             >>>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 20 giugno 2017 11:44
>>>             >>>> To: netslices@ietf.org <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>>>             >>>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>> Err...
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>> What does it have to do with slicing?
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>> I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to
>>>         peruse its own special, different from everyone else time
>>>         synchronization as a common use case.
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>> Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case
>>>         to prove, disprove or test particular SLAs and assumptions,
>>>         but I do not see the network design rationale for per-slice
>>>         sync to get anywhere near requirements.
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>> A.
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>>> On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>>             >>>>> I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was
>>>         explained that the
>>>             >>>>> timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than
>>>         they are for
>>>             >>>>> existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).
>>>             >>>>>
>>>             >>>>> They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns
>>>         expected from 2020.
>>>             >>>>>
>>>             >>>>> The latency requirements for timing services are
>>>         different from
>>>             >>>>> the latency requirements of other services. They
>>>         do not need
>>>             >>>>> minimum latency (although that is nice to have)
>>>         they need latency
>>>             >>>>> consistently and latency symmetry.
>>>             >>>>>
>>>             >>>>> So one question I have is how we transmit the
>>>         timing service. Does
>>>             >>>>> it go in the underlay and provides time as a
>>>         service to the NSI,
>>>             >>>>> or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in
>>>         multiple slices?
>>>             >>>>>
>>>             >>>>> - Stewart
>>>             >>>>>
>>>             >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>             >>>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>             >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>>             >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>             >>>>>
>>>             >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>             >>>> Netslices mailing list
>>>             >>>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>>             >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>             >>>>
>>>             >>> _______________________________________________
>>>             >>>    Netslices mailing list
>>>             >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>>             >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>>
>>>             >>> _______________________________________________
>>>             >>> Netslices mailing list
>>>             >>> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>>             >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>             >>  _______________________________________________
>>>             >>     Netslices mailing list
>>>             >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>>             >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>             >>
>>>             >>
>>>             >> _______________________________________________
>>>             >> Netslices mailing list
>>>             >> Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>>             >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>             > _______________________________________________
>>>             > Netslices mailing list
>>>             > Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>>             > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>             Netslices mailing list
>>>         Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         Netslices mailing list
>>>         Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>>>
>>
>


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    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/06/2017 12:11, Thomas Nadeau
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:37490688-B2FD-41F9-9634-2E3D241C97C4@lucidvision.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <br class="">
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">On Jun 21, 2017:6:51 AM, at 6:51 AM, Stewart
            Bryant &lt;<a href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"
              class="" moz-do-not-send="true">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class="">
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
              charset=utf-8" class="">
            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
              <p class=""><br class="">
              </p>
              So is slicing simply an abstraction?<br class="">
              <br class="">
              If so, then I sense that there are two focii here: the
              generation of the abstract description of a slice, and the
              conversion of the abstract view into a practical system
              that moves, reads and modifies bits.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              A key question is the extent to which the two focii need
              to be co-located.<br class="">
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>This
        is generally an exercise for the operator and really has nothing
        to do with what the IETF would ever specify, so we should just
        skip it.</div>
      <div>The assumption must simply be that components of the service
        will be virtualized, physical or a mix and will depend on lots
        of variables that we justÂ </div>
      <div>cannot (or should not) worry about. The bottom line is that
        we should not assume any one of those things other than what the
        operator will invoke willÂ </div>
      <div>be done in order to make it work to their specification,
        which may or may not include performance requirements or
        regulatory requirements.Â </div>
      <div><br class="">
      </div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>AsÂ Anton
        said, this is a service description and largely a modeling
        exercise.Â </div>
      <div><br class="">
      </div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>â€”Tom</div>
      <div><br class="">
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Tom<br>
    <br>
    Which part?<br>
    <br>
    It is in scope for the IETF to modify as necessary the operation of
    any components (for which it is responsible) in the packet layers
    that require change to deliver the required services.<br>
    <br>
    - Stewart<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:37490688-B2FD-41F9-9634-2E3D241C97C4@lucidvision.com">
      <div><br class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">
            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> <br
                class="">
              - Stewart<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/06/2017 10:23, <a
                  class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                  href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>
                wrote:<br class="">
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FF5C55@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup"
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                <div class="WordSection1">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:black" class="">Hi Stewart, all,<o:p
                        class=""></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:black" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:black" class="" lang="EN-US">I
                      donâ€™t think so.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:black" class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
                        class="">Â </o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:black" class="" lang="EN-US">Slicing
                      is no more than an abstract view. How that view is
                      built/engineered is actually up to the taste of
                      each operator; further it is an internal business
                      of the operator. From where I sit, I see the slice
                      can be packaged using physical, virtual or a
                      combination thereof. How the slice is structured
                      internally is not visible to third parties. As
                      such, I donâ€™t think we need to overload the
                      terminology with new terms. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:black" class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
                        class="">Â </o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:black" class="" lang="EN-US">Cheers,<o:p
                        class=""></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:black" class="" lang="EN-US">Med<o:p
                        class=""></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:black" class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
                        class="">Â </o:p></span></p>
                  <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                    1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt" class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm" class="">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                              class="">DeÂ :</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                            class=""> Netslices [<a
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                              href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                            <b class="">De la part de</b> Stewart Bryant<br
                              class="">
                            <b class="">EnvoyÃ©Â :</b> mercredi 21 juin
                            2017 10:30<br class="">
                            <b class="">Ã€Â :</b> Gert Grammel; Greg
                            Mirsky; AshwoodsmithPeter<br class="">
                            <b class="">CcÂ :</b> Thomas Nadeau; Anton
                            Ivanov; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                              href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                            Daniele Ceccarelli<br class="">
                            <b class="">ObjetÂ :</b> Re: [Netslices]
                            Timing service<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class="">Â </o:p></p>
                    <p class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></p>
                    <p class="">So do we need the terms physical and
                      virtual slice?<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                    <p class="">One method of delivering a hard slice is
                      via FlexE and that is physical for the purposes of
                      these discussions, although I am not sure what
                      remapping to re-arrange capacity will do for the
                      quality of the time transfer.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                    <p class="">- Stewart<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class="">Â </o:p></p>
                    <div class="">
                      <p class="MsoNormal">On 20/06/2017 22:23, Gert
                        Grammel wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote
                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
                      class="">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                          class="">Greg,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                          class="">Â </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                          class="">Before we go too far, I think we have
                          to agree on what we mean with slicing. If a
                          slice *<b class="">must</b>* be virtualized,
                          then there is not much we can do for ptp. If a
                          slice is something more amorph, a "physical
                          slice" may exist. However my concern in that
                          case would be that the term "slice" is so
                          broad that it can't be used anymore for
                          anything useable.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                          class="">Â </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                          class="">Gert</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                          class="">Â </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm" class="">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span
                              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
                              class="">From: </span> </b><span
                            style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
                            class="">Greg Mirsky <a
                              href="mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true" class="">
                              &lt;gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;</a><br
                              class="">
                            <b class="">Date: </b>Tuesday, 20. June
                            2017 at 22:03<br class="">
                            <b class="">To: </b>AshwoodsmithPeter <a
                              href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true" class="">&lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&gt;</a><br
                              class="">
                            <b class="">Cc: </b>Gert Grammel <a
                              href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true" class="">&lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;</a>,
                            Stewart Bryant <a
                              href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true" class="">&lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;</a>,
                            Thomas Nadeau <a
                              href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true" class="">&lt;tnadeau@lucidvision.com&gt;</a>,
                            Anton Ivanov <a
                              href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                              moz-do-not-send="true" class="">&lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;</a>,
                            <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                              moz-do-not-send="true" class="">"netslices@ietf.org"</a>
                            <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                              moz-do-not-send="true" class="">
                              &lt;netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Daniele
                            Ceccarelli <a
                              href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true" class="">
                              &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br
                              class="">
                            <b class="">Subject: </b>Re: [Netslices]
                            Timing service</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Peter, <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                        <div class="">
                          <p class="MsoNormal">another consideration for
                            network slicing may be scope of the network
                            slice domain. PTP domain, as I understand,
                            is more difficult to scale up than NTP
                            domain. It may be that certain quality of
                            clock synchronization is indeed physical
                            property of the underlay.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div class="">
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div class="">
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div class="">
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Greg<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                        <div class="">
                          <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at
                            2:54 PM, AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a
                              href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                            wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                          <blockquote
                            style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                            1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
                            class="">
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Hey Gert,<br class="">
                              <br class="">
                              It was an observation. I don't know the
                              best solution. Just offering it up for
                              discussion.<br class="">
                              <br class="">
                              The point is that to configure the timing
                              you need to know the physical topology ,
                              the location of grand master clock sources
                              and syncs and you have to compute a pair
                              of diverse trees, then you need to
                              configure all the intermediate boundary
                              clocks adjust any differential errors,
                              master slave relationships and fallback
                              behavior. You may also need to bring this
                              into a DC/CRAN and configure it to
                              servers, radios etc.<br class="">
                              <br class="">
                              So it starts to look a lot like
                              configuring a slice.<br class="">
                              <br class="">
                              The fact the resources are physical as
                              opposed to virtual does not make that much
                              difference really and of course some
                              normal (non-timing) slices would require
                              physical resources possibly end to end.<br
                                class="">
                              <br class="">
                              Anyway I'm not advocating it, just
                              pointing out that what you need looks a
                              lot like some of the functions of a slice
                              orchestrator where the resulting slice
                              provides services to all the other slices.<br
                                class="">
                              <br class="">
                              Peter<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                            <div class="">
                              <div class="">
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
                                  -----Original Message-----<br class="">
                                  From: Gert Grammel [mailto:<a
                                    href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>]<br
                                    class="">
                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:14 PM<br
                                    class="">
                                  To: AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;;
                                  Stewart Bryant &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
                                  Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;<br
                                    class="">
                                  Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                                  <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                                  Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br
                                    class="">
                                  Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing
                                  service<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Peter,<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Do you suggest a de-virtualized
                                  version of a network slice?<br
                                    class="">
                                  I think that is stretching the meaning
                                  of "slice" a bit too far.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Gert<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  On 2017-06-20, 20:52,
                                  "AshwoodsmithPeter" &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</a>&gt;
                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Â  Â  The only subtle point I would make
                                  is that nothing prevents the timing to
                                  be its own 'slice', its aware of all
                                  the physical links, sources of grand
                                  master,Â  and who needs what levels of
                                  precision. It can compute where the
                                  boundary clocks go and establish
                                  primary and backup trees (disjoint
                                  MST's). So the mechanisms that are
                                  used to control slices can be used to
                                  control two bare metal timing
                                  'slices'.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Â  Â  Either that or have a completely
                                  different mechanism to manage them but
                                  there is a certain elegance to reusing
                                  the slicing architecture to create a
                                  primary and backup timing 'slices'.<br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Â  Â  Peter<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Â  Â  -----Original Message-----<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  From: Netslices [mailto:<a
                                    href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                                  On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:07
                                  PM<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  To: Thomas Nadeau &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;;
                                  Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  Cc: Anton Ivanov &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;;
                                  <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">netslices@ietf.org</a>;
                                  Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing
                                  service<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Â  Â  Yes, I suspect that timing is an
                                  underlying resource provided by the
                                  fabric to a slice if needed.<br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Â  Â  I raised the subject because
                                  timing is so important to 5G, and
                                  people are beginning not to trust GPS.<br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Â  Â  - Stewart<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Â  Â  On 20/06/2017 18:02, Thomas Nadeau
                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â I think you, Anton, Stewart
                                  and I are in violent agreement then.
                                  8)<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;Â  Â â€”Tom<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM,
                                  at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Hi Tom, Stewart,<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Perhaps my writing was
                                  too cryptic. Daniele was actually
                                  asking to build timing slices and I
                                  was arguing that timing should be left
                                  to the underlying physical layer: "â€¦
                                  timing accuracy is an attribute of a
                                  physical layer that cannot be
                                  virtualized/sliced/layeredâ€¦". If my
                                  reading is correct, we seem to share
                                  that view.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt; The maximum a slice can
                                  do is to filter for resources that
                                  support a given timing requirement if
                                  that constraint was given.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Gert<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 16:33,
                                  "Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau"
                                  &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                                  on behalf of <a
                                    href="mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;
                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Gert:<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  I think its a
                                  bit simpler than that. The slicing use
                                  cases require a timing service to be
                                  available to it.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â I assume that service
                                  must be accurate and reliable to some
                                  specification.Â  However, aside from
                                  that<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â there does not seem
                                  to be any requirement/need to have
                                  that service encased within the<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â slice.Â  In essence,
                                  virtualization of the 1588 service is
                                  not a requirement - running a bare
                                  metal<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â version that is
                                  shared amongst all the slices, etcâ€¦
                                  seems perfectly acceptable.<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  â€”Tom<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 20, 2017:8:38
                                  AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">ggrammel@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele, Anton,<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; this discussion is
                                  basically asking two questions:<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Is timing a
                                  service?<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Is timing a
                                  characteristic of a slice?<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; In my view timing
                                  accuracy is an attribute of a physical
                                  layer that cannot be
                                  virtualized/sliced/layered (another
                                  aspect is fate sharing). It is
                                  reasonable to imagine a "slice" where
                                  timing capabilities are enabled by
                                  default on all resources. As an
                                  example, mobile traffic MAY need to be
                                  transported on SyncE capable links
                                  only. In such scenario a client would
                                  notÂ  require to dynamically
                                  instantiate timing on links but could
                                  instantiate a "slice" on a set of
                                  timing enabled links.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; So it would work
                                  similar as with SRLG whereby two
                                  slices could be created avoiding fate
                                  sharing whereby it is the physical
                                  topology dictating the fate, not the
                                  number of virtualized connections
                                  carried.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Thoughts?<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Gert<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; P.S.: with slice I
                                  mean constructs like described in<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slici</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; ng-00<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; On 2017-06-20, 12:57,
                                  "Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov"
                                  &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                                  on behalf of <a
                                    href="mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</a>&gt;
                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  On 20/06/17 11:22,
                                  Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Anton,<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wouldn't it be
                                  possible to have a scenario in which
                                  we need synchronization for a slice
                                  which is built on top of a non
                                  synchronized network?<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is a very
                                  good Russian saying "Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑŒÐ·Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚ÑŒ
                                  Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑŠÑÑ‚Ð½Ð¾Ðµ". The<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  English equivalent
                                  is "You cannot have your cake and eat
                                  it too".<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  It is easier to
                                  implement sync at the lower layer and
                                  share it out than<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  to guarantee that
                                  some or all of the virtual overlays
                                  will have jitter<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  within the limits
                                  required for 4G or onwards sync.<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  We cannot cater
                                  for every possible requirement. There
                                  are reasonable and<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  unreasonable asks.<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  That does not mean
                                  that there is no time sync aspect to
                                  the whole thing.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  There is an open
                                  question of how to share (with all
                                  relevant SLA<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  restrictions) a
                                  common underlying time sync service
                                  securely between<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  multiple slices
                                  and what can be the precision for
                                  that. One subcase of<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  this may be (note
                                  the very big "may") having ONE (just
                                  one) sync enabled<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  slice which we can
                                  just about guarantee and how do we fan
                                  it out at the<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  edge to all
                                  consumers as a shared service.<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  But definitely
                                  not: "Allocate as many time-sync
                                  enabled slices on a<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  network as you see
                                  fit".<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  A.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Just asking
                                  myself it this would make sense.<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original
                                  Message-----<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Netslices
                                  [mailto:<a
                                    href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                                  On Behalf Of<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anton Ivanov<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: martedÃ¬ 20
                                  giugno 2017 11:44<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a
                                    href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">netslices@ietf.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re:
                                  [Netslices] Timing service<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Err...<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does it have
                                  to do with slicing?<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not see a
                                  scenario where a slice will need to
                                  peruse its own special, different from
                                  everyone else time synchronization as
                                  a common use case.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, we can play
                                  with sync as a one-off use case to
                                  prove, disprove or test particular
                                  SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see
                                  the network design rationale for
                                  per-slice sync to get anywhere near
                                  requirements.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 16/06/17
                                  12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G
                                  seminar yesterday where it was
                                  explained that the<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; timing
                                  requirements for 5G are even stricter
                                  than they are for<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; existing
                                  systems (which in itself is a
                                  challenge).<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They were
                                  talking of a 200ns requirement with
                                  20ns expected from 2020.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The latency
                                  requirements for timing services are
                                  different from<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the latency
                                  requirements of other services. They
                                  do not need<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; minimum
                                  latency (although that is nice to
                                  have) they need latency<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consistently
                                  and latency symmetry.<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So one
                                  question I have is how we transmit the
                                  timing service. Does<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it go in the
                                  underlay and provides time as a
                                  service to the NSI,<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or does it go
                                  in a single slice, or does it go in
                                  multiple slices?<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Stewart<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                                  _______________________________________________<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices
                                  mailing list<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                                    href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                                    href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
                                  _______________________________________________<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing
                                  list<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                                    href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                                    href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â 
                                  _______________________________________________<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  Netslices mailing
                                  list<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  <a
                                    href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;Â  Â  <a
                                    href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt;
                                  _______________________________________________<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing
                                  list<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                                    href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;&gt; <a
                                    href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â 
                                  Â _______________________________________________<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â Netslices mailing
                                  list<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â <a
                                    href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;Â  Â  Â <a
                                    href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt;
                                  _______________________________________________<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt; <a
                                    href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;&gt; <a
                                    href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt;
                                  _______________________________________________<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt; Netslices mailing list<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  &gt; <a
                                    href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br
                                    class="">
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                                    href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Â  Â 
                                  _______________________________________________<br
                                    class="">
                                  Â  Â  Netslices mailing list<br class="">
                                  Â  Â  <a
                                    href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Netslices@ietf.org</a><br
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                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><br
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_______________________________________________<br class="">
                                  Netslices mailing list<br class="">
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                                    class=""></o:p></p>
                              </div>
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                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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                    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class="">Â </o:p></p>
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To: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
CC: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:35:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
To: GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
CC: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:45:11 +0000
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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
Thread-Index: AQHS5pIzGu+WBHDLpEGiPXJ5XRoVraItyYcAgAAKlICAAAnZAIAAHDmAgAAgGQCAACOIAIAABfmAgAASD4D//8casIAAS5sA///FQWCAAEijgIAAFoQAgAC6OYCAAA1dgIAABamw
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:40:12 +0000
Message-ID: <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325EE5@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com>
References: <138af710-486b-fdeb-91fe-ad82bca7384a@gmail.com> <a06982f6-f21f-5523-af5e-2f7ff7a17fff@kot-begemot.co.uk> <AM2PR07MB099405BDCFDC45CA5E8B904DF0C50@AM2PR07MB0994.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <acec85a1-c2a6-3235-29bf-435da8470148@kot-begemot.co.uk> <908AE48F-E320-4049-97DE-8C61E929C31F@juniper.net> <1CC049B7-4E32-46BA-97C8-591482135694@lucidvision.com> <5E9B710B-7072-4FC3-98D5-FD019C38121A@juniper.net> <F8982121-9BC8-4CEA-95DE-D745A6BD2726@lucidvision.com> <ddb74f1f-c32b-805f-7d04-200c5831b6c5@gmail.com> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325B92@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <B965160E-2BDE-4B83-A524-1349030B9242@juniper.net> <7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E232325BD8@YYZEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmUj2Gn-Ypq6jnhCLiCUDttt_rauzbMMsB1MqfWpdxfNZQ@mail.gmail.com> <9D01BF12-86FE-4D0D-ACBE-0F396C13290A@juniper.net> <fd391c23-8901-92ef-da66-1482e9365c16@gmail.com> <285d7d75-7767-9162-3ac3-33bcc1b12c86@kot-begemot.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>,  AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:32:06 +0000
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:49:55 +0000
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From: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
To: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>,  Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:58:17 +0000
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From nobody Wed Jun 21 08:41:54 2017
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From: David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>
To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "Thomas Nadeau" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 15:37:56 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: Georgios Karagiannis <georgios.karagiannis@huawei.com>
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/fFgl2OU5O_8C0xKRpS3Pp1rLXps>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Hey Georgios,
=20
We plan to give a rep from 3gpp some time on the agenda to tell us about =
the current status of 5g work wrt network slicing.
=20
This may map to specific dependencies on IETF work, or might not.
=20
I think the messages should be that:
- If 3gpp has requirements we should attend to them
- If requirements are voiced as being 5g requirements, but do not come =
from 3gpp
   we should be aware (and beware)
- If *other* requirements for network slicing arise (that are not driven =
by 3gpp)
   we will not rule them out, but will assess them as we would other =
work
=20
Adrian
=20
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Georgios Karagiannis
Sent: 21 June 2017 16:55
To: Benoit Claise; NetSlices@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
=20
Dear Benoit,
=20
Thank you very much for the provided recommendations.=20
Regarding the following point on  =E2=80=9C3GPP requirements=E2=80=9D, =
do you expect that IETF should receive recommendations/requirements  =
from 3GPP  in the context of solving standardization network slicing =
challenges which are within the IETF scope?
=20
=E2=80=9CWe need to identify some IETF deliverables, in line with the =
3GPP requirements.=E2=80=9D
=20

Best regards,
Georgios
=20
=20
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Benoit =
Claise
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 1:51 PM
To: NetSlices@ietf.org
Subject: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
=20
Dear all,

It's time to prepare this coming non-WG forming BoF.

A BoF is successful when the proponents are able to clearly explain =
their problem statement to the audience, to get the audience to agree =
that this is an important topic, and propose (a start of) a solution as =
a way forward. RFC 5434 is a good read, from which I particularly like:
In those cases, the goal of the
BOF is to demonstrate that the community has agreement that:
=20
      - there is a problem that needs solving, and the IETF is the right
        group to attempt solving it.
=20
      - there is a critical mass of participants willing to work on the
        problem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, etc.).
=20
      - the scope of the problem is well defined and understood, that
        is, people generally understand what the WG will work on (and
        what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will be.
=20
      - there is agreement that the specific deliverables (i.e.,
        proposed documents) are the right set.
=20
      - it is believed that the WG has a reasonable probability of
        having success (i.e., in completing the deliverables in its
        charter in a timely fashion).

Not all questions are valid for a non working forming BoF, but you =
should keep these questions in mind.

The BoF objectives should be:
- Network slicing is not a new concept but has some specific meaning and =
expectations in 5G. We need to understand the 3GPP requirements for the =
IETF.
- We need to make a sure that we agree on terminology and the meaning of =
terms.=20
- Personally, I'm not clear if we speak about underlay or overlay. Which =
layers/technologies do we speak about here?
- This network slicing work is very broad, and other WGs doing the =
related work. I see some interactions with the OPS, the INT (by overlay =
or underlay), and the RTG area.
  Specifically for the OPS aspects, it seems like the drafts want to =
specify a full system architecture and a full provisioning system.=20
  We need to identify some IETF deliverables, in line with the 3GPP =
requirements.=20

We also have to realize that we don't need a new WG to coordinate work =
in different WGs.

Because of the BoF time constraints, the chairs will have soon [1] a =
structured agenda.

Regards, Benoit (as responsible AD).

[1] for the fun part, see =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-soon/

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Hey =
Georgios,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>We plan to give a rep from =
3gpp some time on the agenda to tell us about the current status of 5g =
work wrt network slicing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>This may map to specific =
dependencies on IETF work, or might not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I think the messages should be =
that:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>- If 3gpp has requirements we =
should attend to them<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>- If requirements are voiced =
as being 5g requirements, but do not come from =
3gpp<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>we should be aware (and =
beware)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>- If *other* requirements for =
network slicing arise (that are not driven by =
3gpp)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>we will not rule them =
out, but will assess them as we would other work<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";color:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> =
Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Georgios Karagiannis<br><b>Sent:</b> 21 June 2017 =
16:55<br><b>To:</b> Benoit Claise; NetSlices@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF =
Objectives<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Dear Benoit,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Thank you very much for the provided =
recommendations. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Regarding the following point on =
&nbsp;=E2=80=9C3GPP requirements=E2=80=9D, do you expect that IETF =
should receive recommendations/requirements &nbsp;from 3GPP &nbsp;in the =
context of solving standardization network slicing challenges which are =
within the IETF scope?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=E2=80=9CWe need to identify some IETF deliverables, =
in line with the 3GPP requirements.=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Georgios<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
ext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
ext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Netslices =
[mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Benoit =
Claise<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 14, 2017 1:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
NetSlices@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Netslices] Network Slicing =
(NETSLICING): BoF Objectives<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><br>It's time to prepare this coming =
non-WG forming BoF.<br><br>A BoF is successful when the proponents are =
able to clearly explain their problem statement to the audience, to get =
the audience to agree that this is an important topic, and propose (a =
start of) a solution as a way forward. RFC 5434 is a good read, from =
which I particularly like:<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>In those cases, the goal of =
the<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>BOF is to demonstrate that the =
community has agreement that:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - there =
is a problem that needs solving, and the IETF is the =
right<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; group to attempt solving it.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - there =
is a critical mass of participants willing to work on =
the<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; problem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, =
etc.).<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - the =
scope of the problem is well defined and understood, =
that<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; is, people generally understand what the WG will work on =
(and<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will =
be.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - there =
is agreement that the specific deliverables =
(i.e.,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;proposed documents) are the right =
set.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - it is =
believed that the WG has a reasonable probability =
of<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; having success (i.e., in completing the deliverables in =
its<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; charter in a timely fashion).<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><br>Not all questions are valid for a =
non working forming BoF, but you should keep these questions in =
mind.<br></span><br>The BoF objectives should be:<br>- Network slicing =
is not a new concept but has some specific meaning and expectations in =
5G. We need to understand the 3GPP requirements for the IETF.<br>- We =
need to make a sure that we agree on terminology and the meaning of =
terms. <br>- Personally, I'm not clear if we speak about underlay or =
overlay. Which layers/technologies do we speak about here?<br>- This =
network slicing work is very broad, and other WGs doing the related =
work. I see some interactions with the OPS, the INT (by overlay or =
underlay), and the RTG area.<br>&nbsp; Specifically for the OPS aspects, =
it seems like the drafts want to specify a full system architecture and =
a full provisioning system. <br>&nbsp; We need to identify some IETF =
deliverables, in line with the 3GPP requirements. <br><br>We also have =
to realize <span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>that we =
don't need a new WG to coordinate work in different =
WGs.<br><br></span>Because of the BoF time constraints, the chairs will =
have soon [1] a structured agenda.<span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><br><br>Regards, Benoit (as =
responsible AD).<br><br>[1] for the fun part, see <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-soon/">https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-soon/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></=
div></div></body></html>
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From: Igor Bryskin <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com>
To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>, "ggrammel@juniper.net" <ggrammel@juniper.net>, "liang.geng@hotmail.com" <liang.geng@hotmail.com>, "stewart.bryant@gmail.com" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "tnadeau@lucidvision.com" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 17:38:17 +0000
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<div>Hi Peter,<br>
<br>
I fully agree with you, I like to think about network resources as abstract=
 resources which may represent either physical resources, or partitions of =
physical resources (logical resources) or virtualized resources or a combin=
ation of thereof.&nbsp; Abstract resources
 make up abstract topologies which could be constrained, optimized and/or o=
therwise tailored acording to provider policies and client preferences.<br>
<br>
Igor<br>
</div>
<div name=3D"AnyOffice-Background-Image" style=3D"border-top:1px solid #B5C=
4DF; font-size:14px; line-height:20px; padding:8px">
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>From:</b>AshwoodsmithPeter</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>To:</b>Leeyoung,Gert Grammel,GENG Li=
ang,Stewart Bryant,Thomas Nadeau,</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Cc:</b>Anton Ivanov,netslices@ietf.o=
rg,Daniele Ceccarelli,</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Date:</b>2017-06-21 11:05:15</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [Netslices] Timing s=
ervice</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">I think it=A1=AFs getting very diff=
icult to decide what is physical and what is virtual anyway. Is a lambda ph=
ysical or virtual, is a CPU core physical or virtual,
 are the sub carriers physical or virtual.. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">The important thing is that the deg=
ree of isolation (or not) on any given segment of a slice meets the QOS req=
uirements to the statistical degree that is desired
 without compromising the other slices.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">I think therefore that physical or =
logical is not useful for slice definition, but hard/soft isolation is perh=
aps a better term since it implies a usable grey
 area in between.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Peter</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Leeyoung
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gert Grammel &lt;ggrammel@juniper.net&gt;; GENG Liang &lt;liang.=
geng@hotmail.com&gt;; AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com&g=
t;; Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;; Thomas Nadeau &lt;tnad=
eau@lucidvision.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Anton Ivanov &lt;anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk&gt;; netslices@i=
etf.org; Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Netslices] Timing service</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Hi,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">I think we need to make distinction=
s between the network slice view that customer sees and the actual instanti=
ation of the network slice in the network.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">As many shared (e.g., Med and Gert =
and others), I think network slice view is always abstract/virtual whereas =
the instantiation of network slice into the network
 may comprise of virtual resources and physical resources. As Med shared, h=
ow the instantiation of network slice is done is internal to the network pr=
ovider.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Young</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Netslices [</span><a href=3D=
"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</sp=
an></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,san=
s-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gert Grammel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> GENG Liang &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif=
">liang.geng@hotmail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;; AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.c=
om</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,sans-serif">&gt;;
 Stewart Bryant &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">st=
ewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;; Thomas Nadeau &lt;</span><a href=
=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</span></a><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&=
gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Anton Ivanov &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begem=
ot.co.uk"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</span></a><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">netslices@ietf.org</span></a=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-seri=
f">; Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@eri=
csson.com"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Netslices] Timing service</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Lian,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">It seems that indirectly you are co=
nfirming a point made earlier. My perception in this discussion is that the=
re is a common sense about &quot;slice&quot; being a construct
 that looks like a network and is controlled separately from other &quot;sl=
ices&quot;. However, this is not even close to a practical definition. Many=
 of the past concepts are implicitly named &quot;slice&quot; now, but do no=
t have may things in common: Layers, switching-regions,
 technology domains, vendor-domains, routing areas, Management domains, vir=
tualization, VPN, Tunnels =A1=AD (continue with anything you like)</span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">So unless we come up with a good-en=
ough definition of a slice, much of the current discussion is mute. My defi=
nition of &quot;slice&quot; is that it is a logical construct
 (i.e. virtual), while yours would include physical constructs as well. Bot=
h are valid starting points, none of those starting points is good enough, =
but somehow the community would need to converge on a crisp definition.</sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Gert</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sa=
ns-serif; color:black">GENG Liang &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:liang.geng@h=
otmail.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,s=
ans-serif">liang.geng@hotmail.com</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, 21. June 2017 at 06:18<br>
<b>To: </b>Gert Grammel &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net">=
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">g=
grammel@juniper.net</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&gt;, AshwoodsmithPeter &lt;</spa=
n><a href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei=
.com</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,sans-serif; color:black">&gt;,
 Stewart Bryant &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">stewa=
rt.bryant@gmail.com</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&gt;, Thomas Nadeau &lt;</span><a=
 href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</span></a><=
span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; co=
lor:black">&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Anton Ivanov &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begem=
ot.co.uk"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,san=
s-serif">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&gt;,
 &quot;</span><a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">netslices@ietf.org</span=
></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-ser=
if; color:black">&quot; &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">net=
slices@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&gt;,
 Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsso=
n.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Re: [Netslices] Timing service</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Gert</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I am not sure what you mean by =
&quot;virtualized&quot; in the scope of slicing. Is it logical isolation or=
 the virtualization in NFV scope?&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Though there has not been a sol=
id definition of slice, but IMHO t</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt; background:white">he dedication a network slice provide may c=
onsist of both logical (virtualized of not)
 and physical isolations, standalone or hybrid.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; back=
ground:white">Taking timing service as an example</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; back=
ground:white">- ToD&#43;1PPS is a physical dedicating - Conceptually it is =
a &quot;hard&quot; dedicated physical &quot;timing service slice&quot;</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">-1588 can have certain dedicati=
on, i.e. in Ethernet MAC layer to avoid congestion with data traffic - Conc=
eptually it is a &quot;soft&quot; dedicated logical (but not virtualized) &=
quot;timing service slice&quot;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Though I am trying to make use =
of the slicing concept, I am actually not so sure if there is necessity for=
 timing service to wear the network slicing hat given the existing manner o=
f dedication. However, i do agree that
 timing service is an underlay which should serve whatever slice is running=
 over it and I don't see the value of providing differentiated timing servi=
ces from operator's point of view at this moment - we will anyway provide t=
he timing service to support 5G
 requirement which is considered most critical. Hence share it for all the =
data planes will be most economical choice .</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Best wishes</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Liang</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">
<hr size=3D"1" width=3D"210" noshade=3D"" align=3D"left" style=3D"width:1.7=
5in; color:#B5C4DF">
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Liang GENG </span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">China Mobile Research Institute=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-left:6.0pt; margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0=
pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:#EFEFEF"><b><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color=
:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D=
"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt=
; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">Gert
 Grammel</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-fami=
ly:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:#EFEFEF"><b><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color=
:black">Date:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;2017-06-21&nbsp;0=
3:13</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:#EFEFEF"><b><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color=
:black">To:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-f=
amily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"m=
ailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-siz=
e:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">AshwoodsmithPeter</span=
></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" sty=
le=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">Stewart B=
ryant</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl=
e=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">Thomas Nad=
eau</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&q=
uot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:#EFEFEF"><b><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color=
:black">CC:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-f=
amily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"m=
ailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-si=
ze:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">Anton
 Ivanov</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"=
font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">netslices@ietf.=
org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&q=
uot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">Da=
niele Ceccarelli</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:#EFEFEF"><b><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color=
:black">Subject:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;Re: [Netslices=
]
 Timing service</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Peter,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Do you suggest a de-virtualized=
 version of a network slice?
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I think that is stretching the =
meaning of &quot;slice&quot; a bit too far.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Gert</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">On 2017-06-20, 20:52, &quot;Ash=
woodsmithPeter&quot; &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei=
.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com</span></a><span la=
ng=3D"EN-GB">&gt; wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The only sub=
tle point I would make is that nothing prevents the timing to be its own 's=
lice', its aware of all the physical links, sources of grand master,&nbsp; =
and who needs what levels of precision. It can compute where
 the boundary clocks go and establish primary and backup trees (disjoint MS=
T's). So the mechanisms that are used to control slices can be used to cont=
rol two bare metal timing 'slices'.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Either that =
or have a completely different mechanism to manage them but there is a cert=
ain elegance to reusing the slicing architecture to create a primary and ba=
ckup timing 'slices'.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Peter</span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Origina=
l Message-----</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Netsli=
ces [</span><a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">] On B=
ehalf Of Stewart Bryant</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Tuesda=
y, June 20, 2017 2:07 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: Thomas N=
adeau &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com"><span lang=3D"E=
N-GB">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&gt;; Gert Gra=
mmel &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:ggrammel@juniper.net"><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
">ggrammel@juniper.net</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: Anton Iv=
anov &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-GB">anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&=
gt;;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">netslices=
@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">; Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;</span><a=
 href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">danie=
le.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: Re:=
 [Netslices] Timing service</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yes, I suspe=
ct that timing is an underlying resource provided by the fabric to a slice =
if needed.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I raised the=
 subject because timing is so important to 5G, and people are beginning not=
 to trust GPS.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Stewart</s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 20/06/201=
7 18:02, Thomas Nadeau wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; I think=
 you, Anton, Stewart and I are in violent agreement then. 8)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =A1=AAT=
om</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; On =
Jun 20, 2017:12:40 PM, at 12:40 PM, Gert Grammel &lt;</span><a href=3D"mail=
to:ggrammel@juniper.net"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">ggrammel@juniper.net</span></=
a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&gt; wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi =
Tom, Stewart,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Per=
haps my writing was too cryptic. Daniele was actually asking to build timin=
g slices and I was arguing that timing should be left to the underlying phy=
sical layer: &quot;=A1=AD timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical
 layer that cannot be virtualized/sliced/layered=A1=AD&quot;. If my reading=
 is correct, we seem to share that view.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The=
 maximum a slice can do is to filter for resources that support a given tim=
ing requirement if that constraint was given.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Ger=
t</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; On =
2017-06-20, 16:33, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Thomas Nadeau&quot; &lt;</s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org%20on%20behalf%20of%20tnade=
au@lucidvision.com"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">netslices-bounces@ietf.org on beha=
lf
 of tnadeau@lucidvision.com</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&gt; wrote:</spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Gert:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think its a bit simpler than that. The slicing use c=
ases require a timing service to be available to it.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I assume that service must be accurate and reliable to=
 some specification.&nbsp; However, aside from that</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; there does not seem to be any requirement/need to have=
 that service encased within the</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; slice.&nbsp; In essence, virtualization of the 1588 se=
rvice is not a requirement - running a bare metal</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; version that is shared amongst all the slices, etc=A1=
=AD seems perfectly acceptable.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=AATom</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 On Jun 20, 2017:8:38 AM, at 8:38 AM, Gert Grammel &lt;</span><a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ggrammel@juniper.net"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">ggrammel@juniper.net</span>=
</a><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&gt; wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Daniele, Anton,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 this discussion is basically asking two questions:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 1) Is timing a service?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 2) Is timing a characteristic of a slice?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 In my view timing accuracy is an attribute of a physical layer that cannot=
 be virtualized/sliced/layered (another aspect is fate sharing). It is reas=
onable to imagine a &quot;slice&quot; where timing capabilities are enabled
 by default on all resources. As an example, mobile traffic MAY need to be =
transported on SyncE capable links only. In such scenario a client would no=
t&nbsp; require to dynamically instantiate timing on links but could instan=
tiate a &quot;slice&quot; on a set of timing enabled
 links.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 So it would work similar as with SRLG whereby two slices could be created =
avoiding fate sharing whereby it is the physical topology dictating the fat=
e, not the number of virtualized connections carried.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Thoughts?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Gert</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 P.S.: with slice I mean constructs like described in
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 </span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-teas-applicabilit=
y-actn-slici"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-t=
eas-applicability-actn-slici</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 ng-00</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 On 2017-06-20, 12:57, &quot;Netslices on behalf of Anton Ivanov&quot; &lt;=
</span><a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org%20on%20behalf%20of%20an=
ton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">netslices-bounces@ietf.o=
rg
 on behalf of anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
>&gt; wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 20/06/17 11:22, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Hi Anton,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; wouldn't it be possible to have a scenario in which we need synchroniz=
ation for a slice which is built on top of a non synchronized network?</spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is a very good Russian saying &quot;=A7=DF=A7=D6=
=A7=DD=A7=EE=A7=D9=A7=F1 =A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=A7=EE =A7=DF=A7=D6=
=A7=E0=A7=D2=A7=EC=A7=F1=A7=E4=A7=DF=A7=E0=A7=D6&quot;. The</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; English equivalent is &quot;You cannot have your cake an=
d eat it too&quot;.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is easier to implement sync at the lower layer and sh=
are it out than</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to guarantee that some or all of the virtual overlays wi=
ll have jitter</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; within the limits required for 4G or onwards sync.</span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We cannot cater for every possible requirement. There ar=
e reasonable and</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; unreasonable asks.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That does not mean that there is no time sync aspect to =
the whole thing.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is an open question of how to share (with all rele=
vant SLA</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; restrictions) a common underlying time sync service secu=
rely between</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; multiple slices and what can be the precision for that. =
One subcase of</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this may be (note the very big &quot;may&quot;) having O=
NE (just one) sync enabled</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; slice which we can just about guarantee and how do we fa=
n it out at the</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; edge to all consumers as a shared service.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But definitely not: &quot;Allocate as many time-sync ena=
bled slices on a</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network as you see fit&quot;.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Just asking myself it this would make sense.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; BR</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Daniele</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; -----Original Message-----</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; From: Netslices [</span><a href=3D"mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">=
<span lang=3D"EN-GB">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB">] On Behalf Of
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Anton Ivanov</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Sent: marted=A8=AC 20 giugno 2017 11:44</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; To: </span><a href=3D"mailto:netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=
netslices@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Err...</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; What does it have to do with slicing?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; I do not see a scenario where a slice will need to peruse its own spec=
ial, different from everyone else time synchronization as a common use case=
.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Sure, we can play with sync as a one-off use case to prove, disprove o=
r test particular SLAs and assumptions, but I do not see the network design=
 rationale for per-slice sync to get anywhere near requirements.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; A.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; On 16/06/17 12:17, Stewart Bryant wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; I was at a 5G seminar yesterday where it was explained that the
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; timing requirements for 5G are even stricter than they are for
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; existing systems (which in itself is a challenge).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; They were talking of a 200ns requirement with 20ns expected from 2=
020.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; The latency requirements for timing services are different from
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; the latency requirements of other services. They do not need
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; minimum latency (although that is nice to have) they need latency
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; consistently and latency symmetry.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; So one question I have is how we transmit the timing service. Does
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; it go in the underlay and provides time as a service to the NSI,
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; or does it go in a single slice, or does it go in multiple slices?=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; - Stewart</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; Netslices mailing list</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; </span><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=
Netslices@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; </span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"=
><span lang=3D"EN-GB">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</span=
></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; _______________________________________________</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Netslices mailing list</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; </span><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Nets=
lices@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; </span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-GB">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</span></a=
><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _______________________________________________</span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices mailing list</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB">Netslices@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/=
netslices"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netsl=
ices</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 _______________________________________________</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Netslices mailing list</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 </span><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Netslice=
s@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 </span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-GB">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</span></a><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _______________________________________________</span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices mailing list</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-GB">Netslices@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/netslices"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net=
slices</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ___=
____________________________________________</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Net=
slices mailing list</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; </s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Netslices@ie=
tf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; </s=
pan><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</span></a><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; _______=
________________________________________</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Netslic=
es mailing list</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; </span>=
<a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Netslices@ietf.o=
rg</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; </span>=
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"><span lang=3D"E=
N-GB">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</span></a><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ____________=
___________________________________</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Netslices ma=
iling list</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Netslices@ietf.org</s=
pan></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</span></a><span lang=3D"EN=
-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">_______________________________=
________________</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Netslices mailing list</span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"mailto:Netslices@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB">Netslices@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net=
slices"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslice=
s</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>
To: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>, Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
CC: Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: RE: [Netslices] Timing service
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Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:28:42 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Timing service
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From: "Kiran.Makhijani" <Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk" <anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk>, "'stewart.bryant'" <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "ggrammel@juniper.net" <ggrammel@juniper.net>, "gregimirsky@gmail.com" <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Distinguishing "slice types" [Was: Timing service]
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Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 19:36:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Distinguishing "slice types" [Was: Timing service]
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/1sPffh1z1gYV7n92gP84ZXzB7Rw>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Hello,

speaking as the 3GPP liaison towards IETF.

3GPP looks at 5G Network Slicing from different perspectives, e.g.
- architecture
- radio access & core network
- operation & maintenance
- mobility & sessions management
- security
- extension of existing 3GPP protocols

If IETF Netslices is intended to work towards 5G / 3GPP, then we first
of all need to answer one question: Are there any requests or
requirements from 3GPP to IETF regarding network slicing?

The answer so far is no.

What we see is that most of the issues indicated above can be handled by
3GPP internally by evolving existing protocol solutions (e.g.
Mobility/Session Management protocol etc) towards 5G or by making use of
existing solutions.

The work in 3GPP is still in progress, i.e. the "no" might not be the
final answer. But so far the information I've collected from the
different working groups in 3GPP is, that we at this moment don't have
anything that we plan to indicate to IETF as requirements on Network
Slicing.

I know that many of you will not like this message, I nevertheless hope
you don't shoot the messenger (that's me). We need to be open and honest
here and I don't want to create any illusions.


Beyond Slicing ...

We started a major effort since the last IETF to get possible 5G related
3GPP requirements to IETF. There is a number of possible candidates
where we currently look into, but they are (at this moment) not in the
area of network slicing.

On the other hand we need to ensure that the work on 5G related issues
stays well coordinated between the involved standards bodies (there are
many more obviously) and that we end up with a coherent set of standards.

Please also be aware that 3GPP has a very demanding schedule for
completion of the first phase of 5G, which is June/September 2018.
Within 3GPP we work hand-in-hand across several working groups and
develop architecture, protocol requirements and solutions more or less
in parallel. We need to make sure that work which is done in IETF is
well phased-in to this endeavor.

I will present 3GPP work on 5G and collaboration plans with IETF at a
dedicated time slot in Prague (most likely Tuesday noon, watch out for
the updated Agenda) at the next IETF meeting.


Having said all that, obviously I don't want to stop any of the
activities on this list. I just want to make clear the background in
3GPP and what we can at this moment realistically foresee.

Thanks and cheers,
Georg

-- 
Georg Mayer
3GPP CT Chairman
HUAWEI Technologies
Mobile: +43 699 1900 5758


On 2017-06-21 18:25, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hey Georgios,
> 
>  
> 
> We plan to give a rep from 3gpp some time on the agenda to tell us about
> the current status of 5g work wrt network slicing.
> 
>  
> 
> This may map to specific dependencies on IETF work, or might not.
> 
>  
> 
> I think the messages should be that:
> 
> - If 3gpp has requirements we should attend to them
> 
> - If requirements are voiced as being 5g requirements, but do not come
> from 3gpp
> 
>    we should be aware (and beware)
> 
> - If *other* requirements for network slicing arise (that are not driven
> by 3gpp)
> 
>    we will not rule them out, but will assess them as we would other work
> 
>  
> 
> Adrian
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Georgios Karagiannis
> *Sent:* 21 June 2017 16:55
> *To:* Benoit Claise; NetSlices@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
> 
>  
> 
> Dear Benoit,
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you very much for the provided recommendations.
> 
> Regarding the following point on  â€œ3GPP requirementsâ€, do you expect
> that IETF should receive recommendations/requirements  from 3GPP  in the
> context of solving standardization network slicing challenges which are
> within the IETF scope?
> 
>  
> 
> â€œWe need to identify some IETF deliverables, in line with the 3GPP
> requirements.â€
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Georgios
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Benoit Claise
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 14, 2017 1:51 PM
> *To:* NetSlices@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
> 
>  
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> 
> It's time to prepare this coming non-WG forming BoF.
> 
> A BoF is successful when the proponents are able to clearly explain
> their problem statement to the audience, to get the audience to agree
> that this is an important topic, and propose (a start of) a solution as
> a way forward. RFC 5434 is a good read, from which I particularly like:
> 
> In those cases, the goal of the
> 
> BOF is to demonstrate that the community has agreement that:
> 
>  
> 
>       - there is a problem that needs solving, and the IETF is the right
> 
>         group to attempt solving it.
> 
>  
> 
>       - there is a critical mass of participants willing to work on the
> 
>         problem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, etc.).
> 
>  
> 
>       - the scope of the problem is well defined and understood, that
> 
>         is, people generally understand what the WG will work on (and
> 
>         what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will be.
> 
>  
> 
>       - there is agreement that the specific deliverables (i.e.,
> 
>         proposed documents) are the right set.
> 
>  
> 
>       - it is believed that the WG has a reasonable probability of
> 
>         having success (i.e., in completing the deliverables in its
> 
>         charter in a timely fashion).
> 
> 
> Not all questions are valid for a non working forming BoF, but you
> should keep these questions in mind.
> 
> The BoF objectives should be:
> - Network slicing is not a new concept but has some specific meaning and
> expectations in 5G. We need to understand the 3GPP requirements for the
> IETF.
> - We need to make a sure that we agree on terminology and the meaning of
> terms.
> - Personally, I'm not clear if we speak about underlay or overlay. Which
> layers/technologies do we speak about here?
> - This network slicing work is very broad, and other WGs doing the
> related work. I see some interactions with the OPS, the INT (by overlay
> or underlay), and the RTG area.
>   Specifically for the OPS aspects, it seems like the drafts want to
> specify a full system architecture and a full provisioning system.
>   We need to identify some IETF deliverables, in line with the 3GPP
> requirements.
> 
> We also have to realize that we don't need a new WG to coordinate work
> in different WGs.
> 
> Because of the BoF time constraints, the chairs will have soon [1] a
> structured agenda.
> 
> Regards, Benoit (as responsible AD).
> 
> [1] for the fun part, see
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-soon/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
> 




From nobody Fri Jun 23 04:46:25 2017
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Excellent.

Finally, 3GPP itself to state clearly that there are NO 3GPP aspects for 
us to look at.

As I have said before, if there is something non-3GPP for us to work on, 
let's do it. IMHO - there are a few use cases of resource + network like 
vCPE systems, etc which are worth considering and which look like a slice.

Anything else which is 3GPP related should stay where it belongs - 3GPP.

A.

On 23/06/17 12:37, Georg Mayer wrote:
> Hello,
>
> speaking as the 3GPP liaison towards IETF.
>
> 3GPP looks at 5G Network Slicing from different perspectives, e.g.
> - architecture
> - radio access & core network
> - operation & maintenance
> - mobility & sessions management
> - security
> - extension of existing 3GPP protocols
>
> If IETF Netslices is intended to work towards 5G / 3GPP, then we first
> of all need to answer one question: Are there any requests or
> requirements from 3GPP to IETF regarding network slicing?
>
> The answer so far is no.
>
> What we see is that most of the issues indicated above can be handled by
> 3GPP internally by evolving existing protocol solutions (e.g.
> Mobility/Session Management protocol etc) towards 5G or by making use of
> existing solutions.
>
> The work in 3GPP is still in progress, i.e. the "no" might not be the
> final answer. But so far the information I've collected from the
> different working groups in 3GPP is, that we at this moment don't have
> anything that we plan to indicate to IETF as requirements on Network
> Slicing.
>
> I know that many of you will not like this message, I nevertheless hope
> you don't shoot the messenger (that's me). We need to be open and honest
> here and I don't want to create any illusions.
>
>
> Beyond Slicing ...
>
> We started a major effort since the last IETF to get possible 5G related
> 3GPP requirements to IETF. There is a number of possible candidates
> where we currently look into, but they are (at this moment) not in the
> area of network slicing.
>
> On the other hand we need to ensure that the work on 5G related issues
> stays well coordinated between the involved standards bodies (there are
> many more obviously) and that we end up with a coherent set of standards.
>
> Please also be aware that 3GPP has a very demanding schedule for
> completion of the first phase of 5G, which is June/September 2018.
> Within 3GPP we work hand-in-hand across several working groups and
> develop architecture, protocol requirements and solutions more or less
> in parallel. We need to make sure that work which is done in IETF is
> well phased-in to this endeavor.
>
> I will present 3GPP work on 5G and collaboration plans with IETF at a
> dedicated time slot in Prague (most likely Tuesday noon, watch out for
> the updated Agenda) at the next IETF meeting.
>
>
> Having said all that, obviously I don't want to stop any of the
> activities on this list. I just want to make clear the background in
> 3GPP and what we can at this moment realistically foresee.
>
> Thanks and cheers,
> Georg
>


From nobody Fri Jun 23 05:02:34 2017
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Georg Mayer <georg.mayer.huawei@gmx.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 'Georgios Karagiannis' <georgios.karagiannis@huawei.com>, 'Benoit Claise' <bclaise@cisco.com>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
CC: Erik Guttman <erik.guttman@gmail.com>, MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN <lionel.morand@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/_jJMBstzHcVDsl_J7zo2T-wZ3xM>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing BoF Survey - Priorities & Interest
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23rd June 2017


Dear Network Slicing Enthusiasts


Re: Network Slicing BoF Survey =
<https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/HWTSXXT>


Network Slicing BoF Problems & Priorities Survey


Your cooperation is kindly requested for completing this survey a.s.a.p. =
and not later that 30th June 2017.

The purposed of this survey is to elicit your views as an expert on the =
priorities and your interest on the identified network slicing problems =
that are not met by the existing solutions or tools. The survey will =
take approx. 15-20 minutes and it is anonymous.=20

20 NetSlicing Problems were identified in =
draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-03 and they are grouped =
in: Global Issues Problems (GI), Network Slice Capabilities Problems =
(NSC) and Network Slice Operations Problems (NSO).

Each problem

=E2=80=A2 has a title and short description (additional descriptions are =
available at =E2=80=9CNetwork Slicing - Revised Problem Statement=E2=80=9D=
 - draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-03.)
=E2=80=A2 is resolvable in terms of one or more protocols specifications =
(or extensions to existing protocols) which need to be developed in =
order to resolve the problem.
=E2=80=A2 is related to one of more IETF gaps as identified in =E2=80=9CGa=
p Analysis for Network Slicing=E2=80=9D =
draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-00

An initial priority level is already attached to each problem in =
draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-03 [(***) high priority, =
(**) medium priority and (*) low priority].

We are aiming to validate/invalidate through your expert view the given =
priorities.

The proposed NetSlicing work would include at least the high priority =
problems.

Results of this survey are planed for presentation at the NetSlicing BoF =
at IETF99 in Prague (16 -21 July 2017).



Thank you in advance.

Best Regards

Alex in the name of the BoF Proponents


N.B.  Please note that the Network Slicing definition used in all the =
problems is as follows:

Network Slice - A Network slice is a managed group of subsets of =
resources, network functions / network virtual functions at the data, =
control, management/orchestration planes and services at a given time. =
Network slice is programmable and has the ability to expose its =
capabilities. The behaviour of the network slice realized via network =
slice instance(s).

(see =E2=80=9CNetwork Slicing =
Architecture=E2=80=9Ddraft-geng-netslices-architecture-01)=


From nobody Fri Jun 23 17:46:50 2017
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Subject: [Netslices] netslicing - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 99
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Dear Cindy Morgan,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 

netslicing Session 1 (2:00:00)
    Monday, Afternoon Session I 1330-1530
    Room Name: Congress Hall II size: 350
    ---------------------------------------------
    


Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Network Slicing
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Cindy Morgan

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 150
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: tram sipbrandy hip l2sm i2nsf rtgwg dmm nvo3 supa netmod netconf sfc detnet anima teas
 Second Priority: ccamp quic pce



People who must be present:
  Benoit Claise
  Terry Manderson

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  It is proposed that the Network Slicing BoF be held on Monday 17th July 2017 at 18:15 - 20:45
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Fri Jun 23 21:54:00 2017
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From: "qiangli (D)" <qiangli3@huawei.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, Georg Mayer <georg.mayer.huawei@gmx.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,  Georgios Karagiannis <georgios.karagiannis@huawei.com>, "'Benoit Claise'" <bclaise@cisco.com>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
CC: Erik Guttman <erik.guttman@gmail.com>, MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN <lionel.morand@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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References: <4a199105-32d7-dfee-023a-1c00299a584f@cisco.com> <04eff195-ace4-17b9-3939-2040559b328b@cisco.com> <C5034E44CD620A44971BAAEB372655DC2DCE4616@lhreml502-mbs> <057c01d2eaab$0ea61bc0$2bf25340$@olddog.co.uk> <ec0d8827-68f4-bae7-95c6-7f11a2d47028@gmx.com> <e99c0187-087d-482c-97f7-1ce02329456a@OPEXCLILM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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From: Georgios Karagiannis <georgios.karagiannis@huawei.com>
To: Georg Mayer <georg.mayer.huawei@gmx.com>
CC: Erik Guttman <erik.guttman@gmail.com>, MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN <lionel.morand@orange.com>, "qiangli (D)" <qiangli3@huawei.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "'Benoit Claise'" <bclaise@cisco.com>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:22:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Georgios Karagiannis <georgios.karagiannis@huawei.com>, Georg Mayer <georg.mayer.huawei@gmx.com>
CC: Erik Guttman <erik.guttman@gmail.com>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>, MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN <lionel.morand@orange.com>, 'Benoit Claise' <bclaise@cisco.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "qiangli (D)" <qiangli3@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
Thread-Index: AQHS5QSQKi0lFoBX2kG0Dl1HuZf+oaIvg2yAgAAIo4CAAtQKAIAABwEAgAEaj4CAAczAAIABsJJQ
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:18:48 +0000
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From: "Sprecher, Nurit (Nokia - IL/Kfar Sava)" <nurit.sprecher@nokia.com>
To: Georg Mayer <georg.mayer.huawei@gmx.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 'Georgios Karagiannis' <georgios.karagiannis@huawei.com>, 'Benoit Claise' <bclaise@cisco.com>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
CC: Erik Guttman <erik.guttman@gmail.com>, "lionel.morand@orange.com" <lionel.morand@orange.com>, "Andrianov, Anatoly (Nokia - US/Arlington Heights)" <anatoly.andrianov@nokia.com>, "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" <hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-labs.com>, "Sartori, Cinzia (Nokia - DE/Munich)" <cinzia.sartori@nokia-bell-labs.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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From: "Sprecher, Nurit (Nokia - IL/Kfar Sava)" <nurit.sprecher@nokia.com>
To: Georg Mayer <georg.mayer.huawei@gmx.com>, "NetSlices@ietf.org" <NetSlices@ietf.org>
CC: "Andrianov, Anatoly (Nokia - US/Arlington Heights)" <anatoly.andrianov@nokia.com>, "Sartori, Cinzia (Nokia - DE/Munich)" <cinzia.sartori@nokia-bell-labs.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/jv_qekbOlhMRKv3m16jkxp9iKsE>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Network Slicing (NETSLICING): BoF Objectives
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