From nobody Mon Jul 3 01:37:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C5E212704A for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 01:37:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yxtlgjbFc_L2 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 01:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E07D126B6D for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 01:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJQ18209; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 08:37:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMI404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.142) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 09:37:11 +0100 Received: from DGGEMI509-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.66]) by dggemi404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.142]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 16:37:04 +0800 From: "qiangli (D)" To: "NetSlices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-01.txt Thread-Index: AdLz1w4Zffs/BDMeTlmvWFl3o4bJ4g== Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 08:37:03 +0000 Message-ID: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A563137@dggemi509-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.163.138] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A563137dggemi509mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.595A0239.0018, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.66, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: d12de5460d363c8739615e772bbdd5ec Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] New Version Notification for draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 08:37:17 -0000 --_000_06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A563137dggemi509mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, The 01 version of "Gap Analysis for Transport Network Slicing" draft has be= en uploaded and is available on https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qian= g-netslices-gap-analysis/ Abstract: This document presents network slicing differentiation from the non- partition network or from simply partition of connectivity resources. It lists 7 standardization gaps related to 4 key requirements for network slicing in transport network. It also presents an analysis of existing related work and other potential solutions on network slicing. This gap analysis document aims to provide a basis for future works in transport network slicing. Comparing with 00 version, the main changes are: 1) added the word "Transport" to the title 2) 6 key requirements were reduced to 4 key requirements 3) 15 gaps were reduced to 7 gaps 4) refined some discussions and statements Your comments and reviews are greatly appreciated. Best regards, Co-authors --_000_06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A563137dggemi509mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear All,<= /p>

 

The 01 version of "Gap = Analysis for Transport Network Slicing" draft has been uploaded and is= available on https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis/<= /a>

 

Abstract:<= /p>

   This document p= resents network slicing differentiation from the non-

   partition netwo= rk or from simply partition of connectivity resources.

   It lists 7 stan= dardization gaps related to 4 key requirements for

   network slicing= in transport network.  It also presents an analysis=

   of existing rel= ated work and other potential solutions on network

   slicing.

   This gap analys= is document aims to provide a basis for future works

   in transport ne= twork slicing.

 

Comparing with 00 version, t= he main changes are:

1) added the word “Tra= nsport” to the title

2) 6 key requirements were r= educed to 4 key requirements

3) 15 gaps were reduced to 7= gaps

4) refined some discussions = and statements

 

Your comments and reviews ar= e greatly appreciated.

 

 

Best regards,=

 

Co-authors

 

--_000_06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A563137dggemi509mbschi_-- From nobody Mon Jul 3 05:12:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DBC12F287 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 05:12:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LgqK53DqA4Jb for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 05:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr10101.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.1.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00783128C82 for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 12:12:00 -0000 3rd July 2017 Dear All A new version of "Network Slicing - Revised Problem Statement=E2=80=9D = draft has been uploaded and it is available at = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem= -statement-01.txt Name: draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement Title: Network Slicing - Revised Problem Statement Document date: 2017-07-03 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 29 URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem= -statement-01.txt Abstract: This document introduces Network Slicing problems and the motivation for new work areas. It represents an initial revision of the Network Slicing problem statement derived from the analysis of the technical gaps in IETF protocols ecosystem. It complements and brings together the efforts being carried out in several other IETF working groups to achieve certain aspects of Network Slicing functions and operations. Comparing with previous version the main changes are: =E2=80=A2 a review of the problem priorities =E2=80=A2 a summary focussing on selected higher priority problems and = relationships with the gaps and requirements identifies in the related = I-Ds: draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis-01 and = draft-netslices-usecases-01 Best Regards Alex= From nobody Mon Jul 3 08:43:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A50F3131694 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 08:43:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tfshtbZVyg3s for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 08:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14F49131687 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 08:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJQ91790; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 15:43:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 16:43:36 +0100 Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.142]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.136]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 08:43:31 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-netslices-usecases-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHS9BMf17I0pNyAdUaKBtQJKW3Bfg== Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 15:43:31 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.247.32] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F1BCBE7C7D1D4D48B0B78AFF872E4499huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.595A662A.0165, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.142, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 477bc352e1cb8f5b1c6ae60955891168 Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] New Version Notification for draft-netslices-usecases-01.txt X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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bWVzbWEgdmlhIGUgcHJvY2VkYSBhIHN1YSBkZXN0cnVpw6fDo28NCg== From nobody Tue Jul 4 21:28:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28904129B0E for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 21:28:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ijziLhsP8ian for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 21:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.nict.go.jp (ns2.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:232:300::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAED6129AEA for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 21:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw2.nict.go.jp (gw2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.251]) by ns2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v654SEF8003787; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 13:28:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail2.nict.go.jp (mail2.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.15]) by gw2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id v654SDiV003775; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 13:28:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from spectre (unknown [133.243.115.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail Spool Server2) with ESMTPS id D31E7BA8E; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 13:28:13 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 13:28:12 +0900 From: Pedro Martinez-Julia To: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO Cc: "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" , "netslices@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170705042812.GP6432@spectre> References: <149909082804.3962.4640685135842432870.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.1 (2017-04-11) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at zenith2 X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 04:28:19 -0000 Dear Luis, The "operator" perspective you are providing is really appreciated and we will/should concentrate on point 3 for the "tenant perspective" and the other points for the "operator perspective". For the time being, I take this opportunity to ask you what an operator is for you. In my mind I have the following roles (you can use different names, but semantically are the same): - Infrastructure Provider (InP): Owns the physical infrastructure and slices each physical element to get several virtual elements. For instance this /can/ be played by Telefonica, Orange, Vodafone, etc. - Virtual Network Operator (VNO): Builds one or more slices of resources contacted to the InPs and then constructs a virtual network system on their top. For instance this /can/ be Yoigo, Simyo, etc. - Application Service Provider (ASP): Contracts the virtual network system offered by a VNO, builds an application on top of it and offers it to users/customers. This can be played by Simyo (but not Yoigo). Regarding the example organizations, all of them are clearly hybrid but if we consider just a separate product/service we can classify them. For instance, we can contract a set of physical links to Telefonica, a set of access rights to Vodafone 4G service, and build a whole IP network that a third party (ASP) can contract and then deploy an IMS solution to offer call services to its customers. In this sense, we have two clear points of standardization: The provider needs a standard way to slice its physical resources so it is not tied to any specific vendor or customer interface. The customer also needs a standard way of managing (CRUD) their resource slices. The question in relation to your comment would be whether it is better to address both viewpoints together or separately. Please give us your opinion and, please, try to associate it to some of the roles I mention. Thank you very much. Regards, Pedro On Wed, Jul 05, 2017 at 03:35:17AM +0000, LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO wrote: > Hi Hannu, all, > > I have gone through the draft and some comments / doubts come to my mind. > > .- The draft considers three different categories or kind of slices, depending on the level of control exposed to the tenant. These are basically: > 1) the tenant just merely can use the slice provided > 2) the tenant can change some configuration on the functions part of the slice > 3) the tenant has full control of the slice > Looking at this from an operator mindset, considering similarities with wholesale product offerings probably an analogy could be set in the sense of considering that: > 1) what the tenant consumes is what is known as a managed service. The provider can use slicing mechanisms for that, but not only (or even a mix of slicing plus conventional service offerings). From the infrastructure point of view this is not so much different from sharing part of the network, or even partitioning in a more extreme case. But the provider retains the management and control e2e. > 2) what the tenant is allowed is to managed its service to some extent. Then, from the service offering point of view, this would be equivalent to an unmanaged service (from the provider perspective). The tenant can make some operations / configurations, and the provider just provides the infrastructure necessary for that (understanding infrastructure in a broad sense, so including as well the network functions that the customer can configure). Once again, the provider can use slicing mechanisms for that, but not only (or even a mix of slicing plus conventional service offerings). > 3) This is a pure slicing service from the provider perspective, where the tenant receives an e2e logical network, on top of a shared infrastructure with > independent control and management. This necessary has to be implemented through slicing mechanisms, conventional ones are not more valid (this does not prevent that e.g. some overlay mechanisms could be used for the transport part). > > My comment here is that probably the focus should be on (3) as the more complete and comprehensive scenario to analyze. > > .- when talking about sharing or common usage of functions/elements, it is mentioned that such capability is performed by EMS/NMS. This is not clear to me. Such sharing capabilities are intrinsic to the element (e.g., VRFs in PE routers) or to the function (distinct APNs in GGSNs). This can be certainly instantiated or configured via EMS, but it is not a capability of them. Maybe you can clarify what you mean with that. > > .- when talking about the different lifecycles for PNFs and VNFs it is mentioned that the NSMF should support service level abstractions. Since "service" is a very overloaded term I'm not sure about what kind or level of services you refer. I guess it should refer to network function level abstractions and connectivity abstractions, right? Because looking at TR 28.801 that the CSMF (the communications service management function) passes to NSMF the requirements of the network slice in terms of network type, network capacity, QoS requirements, etc. In other words, the NSMF does not need to support customer service level abstractions, right? > > .- It is not clear the purpose of Figure 1. It is not referenced in the text, then not clear to me if it is taken from some other place, if it is you final view of the problem, etc. Also it is not clear the origin of some entities like the Service M&O. Is it NGMN terminology? Is it 3GPP terminology? I don't think so, but maybe I'm wrong. For clarity it should be nice to have a better description and a better motivation for such figure. > > .- Also it is mentioned that these constructs can be considered as part of the OSS/BSS according to TR28.801, but I think this is not correct. In section 7, TR 28.801 mentions: How network slice management functions are mapping to OSS/BSS is FFS > > .- In general, I do not feel comfortable with your positioning of NSMF as part of OSS/BSS. I think that the purposes of OSS/BSS and NSMF are different and some positioning of NSMF with respect OSS/BSS like the one in ETSI NFV architecture is what I could expect. Linking NSMF to OSS/BSS creates important architectural dependencies for the evolution of the networks and for sure will difficult vendor interoperability/inter-manageability, as well as probably migration. This is what we are seeing today with more simplistic capabilities like SDN, for instance. > > Probably I have misunderstood concepts, so any clarification is more than welcome. > > Best regards > > Luis > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) > Enviado el: martes, 4 de julio de 2017 17:56 > Para: netslices@ietf.org > Asunto: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Hannu Flinck and posted to the IETF repository. > > Name:draft-flinck-slicing-management > Revision:00 > Title:Network Slicing Management and Orchestration > Document date:2017-07-03 > Group:Individual Submission > Pages:10 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-flinck-slicing-management/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-flinck-slicing-management-00 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-flinck-slicing-management-00 > > > Abstract: > Network Slicing is worked in multiple SDOs from different view > points. As network slicing is an end-to-end topic, this draft > proposes that network slices architecture [NS-Framework] aligns with > the work done in NGMN, 3GPP and ETSI with relation to management and > orchestration. The key aspect that this draft makes is the rational > for role and need for Network Slice Management Function (NSMF) entity > that operates above Network Virtualization Function Orchestrator and > PNFs Management Functions. NSMF needs to support different > abstractions of resources and to offer access to different management > entities. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > ________________________________ > > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. > > The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete it. > > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e é para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destruição > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices -- Pedro Martinez-Julia Network Science and Convergence Device Technology Laboratory Network System Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan Email: pedro@nict.go.jp --------------------------------------------------------- *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** From nobody Wed Jul 5 06:52:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95478129B64 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 06:52:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XQVc_vs6hPRM for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 06:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6F69131D18 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 06:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 2B1081204F3; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:52:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.69]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 0CC78180067; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:52:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::bc1c:ad2f:eda3:8c3d%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:52:06 +0200 From: To: "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHS9AWqkasVzMuXpES7cgzsAwtm3qJD05nAgAFs24A= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 13:52:06 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0010C8@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <149909082804.3962.4640685135842432870.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 13:52:12 -0000 Dear Flinck,=20 Thank you for sharing this draft.=20 I had the impression that you assume a "slices for sale" approach (or a "le= ase" network approach if you will) and that there is one single tenant for = each instantiated network slice.=20 It is fine to cover this case (even if I have some concerns with it), but I= do personally see slicing as an internal tool for a network provider to ho= nor the needs of services/customer having common requirements. That is a ne= twork slice can be shared among multiple tenants/services. Doing so allows = to rationalize the usage of resources within a network without requiring in= stantiated slices to linearly increase as a function of the tenants.=20 I don't see this second perspective reflected in your document. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Flinck= , > Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) > Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 4 juillet 2017 17:56 > =C0=A0: netslices@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slici= ng- > management-00.txt >=20 >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Hannu Flinck and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-flinck-slicing-management > Revision: 00 > Title: Network Slicing Management and Orchestration > Document date: 2017-07-03 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 10 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-flinck-slicing= - > management-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-flinck-slicing- > management/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-flinck-slicing- > management-00 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-flinck- > slicing-management-00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > Network Slicing is worked in multiple SDOs from different view > points. As network slicing is an end-to-end topic, this draft > proposes that network slices architecture [NS-Framework] aligns with > the work done in NGMN, 3GPP and ETSI with relation to management and > orchestration. The key aspect that this draft makes is the rational > for role and need for Network Slice Management Function (NSMF) entity > that operates above Network Virtualization Function Orchestrator and > PNFs Management Functions. NSMF needs to support different > abstractions of resources and to offer access to different management > entities. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Wed Jul 5 09:58:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16FDB131D79 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:58:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=nextworks-it.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZlbsFOsFlejY for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com (mail-wr0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55FB8131D72 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id r103so266470183wrb.0 for ; Wed, 05 Jul 2017 09:58:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nextworks-it.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jnqu+NxZGNmZ/R7rxf7tlvHIwX/y6wdfE2+Q38+1NUg=; b=ylrzx1g6BqyF0d69icb7YXfl7PIhu+nLhODnlmMz4mStMfEyFYEvecnGTafDF/txQV 7qE6ByXT3CfzI63Fi3HtzAAr+SxfC+RmVKxMlVGtv5Hz2mcoGk25YwO6xFXpg8HhauKi /Q5VnMBXSCPsodvKNmLxYCIvXZ4agiE1tGFjf+H2KAlapigMJk1d7MrjESglqCeGInTW JX7weBV5LwoKt+VidruWxZmQBIFmNCBGdKyOTp4hEriglo/0uLzeajRnsRVxQ6D5casI 92T65cpdDQfE1ZXFnHYLcykIv3ml4K70gcgiqyfCzsqtVLaJmYH6ynf+iodvQJAigeas r9Hw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jnqu+NxZGNmZ/R7rxf7tlvHIwX/y6wdfE2+Q38+1NUg=; b=ZgYHHH3JKNeSrcV28OYP7SLcVZVz58CgAMzilDfPIEvpX/WrIqjEePrdXE3i94L2I0 muCC4fAp5nY/w7TwJzdLO0yB3/q9pGhRUhWaXglaJi1WFtKG2N8fdvg17DloqOKKq9gQ wFpD0vIWEupN+dtM/anixqs54ejm5bnIE+t1NWg5BFJ3z7pUrUwgjLYOeR/1yY+LLBEm OKBWZGalrOw4derr/ELW9is7J/earRLTWMUubKMjZBfK0ufjhtPYh7wwfyi0ahvVEKTV AXYebEPhT7UD4v0dhW4GpG/0G71PvQkKsnAN846YvS/2AXAtOhu1XgHXK7KBF3tgMFvW YY8A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyPbhNOjglnRage0WByeR4/isaJQDIaJkcrWVnFvCHI8Fv7bJRa q/NnR6wUhM8RQVNhulEca1iDUQ7hbrt3 X-Received: by 10.223.150.89 with SMTP id c25mr37836900wra.15.1499273901560; Wed, 05 Jul 2017 09:58:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.232.17 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:58:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0010C8@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <149909082804.3962.4640685135842432870.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0010C8@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Gino Carrozzo Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 18:58:20 +0200 Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" , "netslices@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1147d80052e4ca055394e84f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 16:58:26 -0000 --001a1147d80052e4ca055394e84f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mohamed If I correctly captured your point, the grouping of resources in a single slice for multiple tenants will be driven by the capability to fulfill similar service KPIs, e.g. for URLLC, eMBB, MTC, etc.. As such, doesn't the network slice "degenerate" into a set of NS-es originated by the network [slice] operator? Would the only control modes applicable to this case be 1) Monitoring only and 2) limited configuration of VNFs? I.e. there would be no need for a MANO stack for the slice consumer. Thanks for your clarification br Gino On 5 July 2017 at 15:52, wrote: > Dear Flinck, > > Thank you for sharing this draft. > > I had the impression that you assume a "slices for sale" approach (or a > "lease" network approach if you will) and that there is one single tenant > for each instantiated network slice. > > It is fine to cover this case (even if I have some concerns with it), but > I do personally see slicing as an internal tool for a network provider to > honor the needs of services/customer having common requirements. That is = a > network slice can be shared among multiple tenants/services. Doing so > allows to rationalize the usage of resources within a network without > requiring instantiated slices to linearly increase as a function of the > tenants. > > I don't see this second perspective reflected in your document. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Flinck= , > > Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 4 juillet 2017 17:56 > > =C3=80 : netslices@ietf.org > > Objet : [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for > draft-flinck-slicing- > > management-00.txt > > > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Hannu Flinck and posted to the > > IETF repository. > > > > Name: draft-flinck-slicing-management > > Revision: 00 > > Title: Network Slicing Management and Orchestration > > Document date: 2017-07-03 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 10 > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > drafts/draft-flinck-slicing- > > management-00.txt > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-flinck-slicing- > > management/ > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-flinck-slicing- > > management-00 > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-flinck- > > slicing-management-00 > > > > > > Abstract: > > Network Slicing is worked in multiple SDOs from different view > > points. As network slicing is an end-to-end topic, this draft > > proposes that network slices architecture [NS-Framework] aligns with > > the work done in NGMN, 3GPP and ETSI with relation to management and > > orchestration. The key aspect that this draft makes is the rational > > for role and need for Network Slice Management Function (NSMF) entit= y > > that operates above Network Virtualization Function Orchestrator and > > PNFs Management Functions. NSMF needs to support different > > abstractions of resources and to offer access to different managemen= t > > entities. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Dr. Gino Carrozzo Deputy Head of R&D mobile : +39 348 7610 081 landline : +39 050 3871 679 fax : +39 050 3871 601 e-mail : g.carrozzo@nextworks.it web : www.nextworks.it address : Nextworks s.r.l. via Livornese, 1027 56122 S.Piero a Grado, Pisa, ITALY =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --001a1147d80052e4ca055394e84f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mohamed

If I correctly captured your= point, the grouping of resources in a single slice for multiple tenants wi= ll be driven by the capability to fulfill similar service KPIs, e.g. for UR= LLC, eMBB, MTC, etc..

As such, doesn't the net= work slice "degenerate" into a set of NS-es originated by the net= work [slice] operator?
Would the only control modes applicable to= this case be 1) Monitoring only and 2) limited configuration of VNFs? I.e.= there would be no need for a MANO stack for the slice consumer.
=
Thanks for your clarification
br
Gino=C2= =A0

On= 5 July 2017 at 15:52, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
Dear Flinck,

Thank you for sharing this draft.

I had the impression that you assume a "slices for sale" approach= (or a "lease" network approach if you will) and that there is on= e single tenant for each instantiated network slice.

It is fine to cover this case (even if I have some concerns with it), but I= do personally see slicing as an internal tool for a network provider to ho= nor the needs of services/customer having common requirements. That is a ne= twork slice can be shared among multiple tenants/services. Doing so allows = to rationalize the usage of resources within a network without requiring in= stantiated slices to linearly increase as a function of the tenants.

I don't see this second perspective reflected in your document.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=C2=A0: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Flinck,
> Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
> Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: mardi 4 juillet 2017 17:56
> =C3=80=C2=A0: netslices@ietf.org=
> Objet=C2=A0: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flinck= -slicing-
> management-00.txt
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-fl= inck-slicing-management-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Hannu Flinck and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-flinck-slicing-manag= ement
> Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
> Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Network = Slicing Management and Orchestration
> Document date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2017-07-03
> Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individu= al Submission
> Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10
> URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-flinck-slicing-
> management-00.txt
> Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-flinck-slicing-
> management/
> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-flinck-slicing-
> management-00
> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://= datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-flinck-
> slicing-management-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Network Slicing is worked in multiple SDOs from different= view
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 points.=C2=A0 As network slicing is an end-to-end topic, = this draft
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 proposes that network slices architecture [NS-Framework] = aligns with
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the work done in NGMN, 3GPP and ETSI with relation to man= agement and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 orchestration.=C2=A0 The key aspect that this draft makes= is the rational
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for role and need for Network Slice Management Function (= NSMF) entity
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that operates above Network Virtualization Function Orche= strator and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 PNFs Management Functions.=C2=A0 NSMF needs to support di= fferent
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 abstractions of resources and to offer access to differen= t management
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 entities.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netsl= ices

_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices<= /a>



--
=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=C2=A0 Dr. Gino Carrozzo
=C2=A0 Deputy Head of R&D

=C2=A0 mobile =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= +39 348 7610 081
=C2=A0 landline =C2=A0: +39 050 3871 679 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 fax =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : +39 050 3871 = 601 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 e-mail =C2=A0 = =C2=A0: g.carr= ozzo@nextworks.it =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0
=C2=A0 web= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : www.nextworks.it =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0
=C2=A0 add= ress =C2=A0 : Nextworks s.r.l.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 via Livornese, 1027 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 56122 S.Piero a Grado, Pisa, ITALY =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
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--001a1147d80052e4ca055394e84f-- From nobody Wed Jul 5 15:51:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3762128DE5 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:51:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lq9AE7HjatfM for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3A95126B72 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v65Mpm4A010347; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 23:51:48 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (141.48.113.87.dyn.plus.net [87.113.48.141]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v65MplkE010337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Jul 2017 23:51:48 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Network Slices" Cc: , Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 23:51:50 +0100 Message-ID: <05fe01d2f5e1$4a932650$dfb972f0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AdL14USeo1Url/m+R0Sk3ooB+ccK6w== X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23178.003 X-TM-AS-Result: No--3.916-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--3.916-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: QhZNiSEZdB3/TZdFgL/x6+YAh37ZsBDCI6PHNDZGGCL4JyR+b5tvoFN4 +W/gDVHWdi+7Y9mZdF4txIVvY9nqwe+Qm7Tg9jG3c+QhWKJM04Pr3cBHbznNvZdaQbAiMdJbZUb 3A3apXYD/pEkrd5z/rmMFp7njIqB8Nyl1nd9CIt05f9Xw/xqKXdivpTdmVCR2xEHRux+uk8hxKp vEGAbTDnJPOGE9h0w2fTbOEYwdFWFpnxz8fhlvCz6RLIRxhcQV68GwfDNKJzIJvZWIg6sEqqgvr zcCGDpMW/Yp2cMvigBgfIZzjB5b7cQqHltHU9gWh/yQr4rUA+khyumgjE26dT+WrqjKZ1gr Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Draft agenda for Netslices BoF X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 22:51:57 -0000 Hi, This is what Gonzalo and I are posting as our work in progress agenda. Thanks, Adrian ===== 1. Administrivia (chairs) [5 : 5/120] 2. Purpose of BoF (chairs/AD) [5 : 10/120] 3. How the IETF would approach this space (and what we won't do) (chairs) [5 : 15/120] 4. 3GPP viewpoint (Georg Mayer) [10 : 25/120] - current status - taxonomy in 3GPP - use cases - requirements 5. Understanding what different people mean by Network Slicing Addressing the following questions: - What do I mean by network slicing? - What are my main use cases? - What IETF work is in progress/needed? - What non-IETF work is relevant? a. BoF proponents' view of network slicing i. Terms and Systems (Alex Galis) [10 : 35/120] IETF problems to solve / needing work draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement draft-netslices-usecases ii. Requirements and Gap Analysis (Cristina Qiang) [10: 45/120] draft-geng-netslices-architecture draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis b. Network virtualization and network slicing (Daniel King) [10 : 55/120] draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing c. Applicability of network slicing to IoT (Jari Arkko - PEND) [10 : 65/120] d. Routing and Forwarding in support of Networking Slicing (Stewart Bryant) [10 : 75/120] e. Network slice management and orchestration (Hannu Flinck) [10 : 85/120] 6. Open discussion (chairs) [20 : 105/120] 7. Answering the RFC 5434 questions (chairs) [5 : 110/120 8. Conclusions and next steps (chairs and ADs) [10 : 120/120] From nobody Wed Jul 5 17:02:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE9B12EB27 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 17:02:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i3oApTYKusvk for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 17:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BF6F127286 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 17:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJV06554; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 00:02:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 01:02:18 +0100 Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.142]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.136]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 17:02:14 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: Gino Carrozzo , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" CC: "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHS9AWqkasVzMuXpES7cgzsAwtm3qJD05nAgAFs24CAAKyoAIAAARaA Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 00:02:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149909082804.3962.4640685135842432870.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0010C8@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.247.150] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C944C7B6E1A946E0AEF077AAAE424BBChuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090202.595D7E0B.00B9, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.142, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 3a0807000e0f39f48058f68723ebbaf9 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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Lg0KDQpFc3RhIG1lbnNhZ2VtIGUgc2V1cyBhbmV4b3Mgc2UgZGlyaWdlbSBleGNsdXNpdmFtZW50 ZSBhbyBzZXUgZGVzdGluYXTDoXJpbywgcG9kZSBjb250ZXIgaW5mb3JtYcOnw6NvIHByaXZpbGVn aWFkYSBvdSBjb25maWRlbmNpYWwgZSDDqSBwYXJhIHVzbyBleGNsdXNpdm8gZGEgcGVzc29hIG91 IGVudGlkYWRlIGRlIGRlc3Rpbm8uIFNlIG7Do28gw6kgdm9zc2Egc2VuaG9yaWEgbyBkZXN0aW5h dMOhcmlvIGluZGljYWRvLCBmaWNhIG5vdGlmaWNhZG8gZGUgcXVlIGEgbGVpdHVyYSwgdXRpbGl6 YcOnw6NvLCBkaXZ1bGdhw6fDo28gZS9vdSBjw7NwaWEgc2VtIGF1dG9yaXphw6fDo28gcG9kZSBl c3RhciBwcm9pYmlkYSBlbSB2aXJ0dWRlIGRhIGxlZ2lzbGHDp8OjbyB2aWdlbnRlLiBTZSByZWNl YmV1IGVzdGEgbWVuc2FnZW0gcG9yIGVycm8sIHJvZ2Ftb3MtbGhlIHF1ZSBub3MgbyBjb211bmlx dWUgaW1lZGlhdGFtZW50ZSBwb3IgZXN0YSBtZXNtYSB2aWEgZSBwcm9jZWRhIGEgc3VhIGRlc3Ry dWnDp8Ojbw0K From nobody Thu Jul 6 02:12:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3DF1201F8 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 02:12:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.609 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.609 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Huns3TjNaQz for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 02:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61B03129B4D for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 02:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.11]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id E844860F62; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 11:12:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.24]) by opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C14E218003F; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 11:12:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::9044:c5ee:4dd2:4f16%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 11:12:26 +0200 From: To: Gino Carrozzo CC: "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHS9a/pLkX7vpGWE0Oldudm2XZaEqJGfF0Q Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 09:12:26 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A00189C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <149909082804.3962.4640685135842432870.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0010C8@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: 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x-forefront-prvs: 03607C04F0 spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HK2PR06MB091325B302F885CDBD2CDED687D50HK2PR06MB0913apcp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Jul 2017 10:25:59.7067 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HK2APC01HT179 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 10:26:05 -0000 --_000_HK2PR06MB091325B302F885CDBD2CDED687D50HK2PR06MB0913apcp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Hannu, I like the idea of adding ETSI MANO to the picture and distinguish PNF and = VNF since the Orchestration of these different types of resources in a netw= ork slice instance may be very different. We can discuss further to see how= the Framwork document address your concerns However, the SA5 terms NSMF (which is E2E orchestration in NS-Framework) an= d NSSMF (which is domain orchestration in NS-Framework) may need further di= scussion. I am slightly worried about directly using terms defined in other= SDOs because you never know what they possibly mean tomorrow. Best wishes Liang ________________________________ Liang GENG China Mobile Research Institute From: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) Date: 2017-07-04 23:56 To: netslices@ietf.org Subject: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-= management-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Hannu Flinck and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-flinck-slicing-management Revision: 00 Title: Network Slicing Management and Orchestration Document date: 2017-07-03 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 10 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-flinck-slicing-m= anagement-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-flinck-slicing-manag= ement/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-flinck-slicing-management= -00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-flinck-slicing-= management-00 Abstract: Network Slicing is worked in multiple SDOs from different view points. As network slicing is an end-to-end topic, this draft proposes that network slices architecture [NS-Framework] aligns with the work done in NGMN, 3GPP and ETSI with relation to management and orchestration. The key aspect that this draft makes is the rational for role and need for Network Slice Management Function (NSMF) entity that operates above Network Virtualization Function Orchestrator and PNFs Management Functions. NSMF needs to support different abstractions of resources and to offer access to different management entities. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices --_000_HK2PR06MB091325B302F885CDBD2CDED687D50HK2PR06MB0913apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Hannu,

I like the idea of adding ETSI MANO to the picture and distinguish PNF= and VNF since the Orchestration of these different types of resources in a= network slice instance may be very different. We can discuss further to se= e how the Framwork document address your concerns

However, the SA5 terms NSMF (which is E2E orchestration in NS= -Framework) and NSSMF (which is domain orchestration in NS-Framework) may need further discussion. I am sl= ightly worried about directly using terms defined in other SDOs because you= never know what they possibly mean tomorrow.

Best wishes
Liang


Liang GENG
China Mobile Research Institute
 
Date: 2017-07-04 23:56
Subject: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draf= t-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt
 
 
A new version of I-D, draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Hannu Flinck and posted to the
IETF repository.
 
Name: draft-flinck-slicing-management
Revision: 00
Title: Network Slicing Management and Orchestration
Document date: 2017-07-03
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 10
URL:           = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.tx= t
Status:         https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-flinck-slicing-management/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/h= tml/draft-flinck-slicing-management-00
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf= .org/doc/html/draft-flinck-slicing-management-00
 
 
Abstract:
   Network Slicing is worked in multiple SDOs from different= view
   points.  As network slicing is an end-to-end topic, = this draft
   proposes that network slices architecture [NS-Framework] = aligns with
   the work done in NGMN, 3GPP and ETSI with relation to man= agement and
   orchestration.  The key aspect that this draft makes= is the rational
   for role and need for Network Slice Management Function (= NSMF) entity
   that operates above Network Virtualization Function Orche= strator and
   PNFs Management Functions.  NSMF needs to support di= fferent
   abstractions of resources and to offer access to differen= t management
   entities.
 
           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;      
 
 
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
 
The IETF Secretariat
 
_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
Netslices@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
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RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3CFreDAM1rFc for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2017 12:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy9.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy9-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.20.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F9F6127869 for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2017 12:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw4 (unknown [10.0.90.85]) by gproxy9.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B71A1E3918 for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2017 13:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw4 with id ij8A1v01A2SSUrH01j8Da9; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 13:08:14 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=eYdNR/MH c=1 sm=1 tr=0 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id 1dUHYw-002qRO-OU for netslices@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 13:08:10 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: netslices@ietf.org Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2017 15:08:05 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.84.20 X-Exim-ID: 1dUHYw-002qRO-OU X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-84-20.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.84.20]:54476 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 19:08:19 -0000 Hi, With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be done on the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to build on (and at worst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In reading this draft, I really felt like the authors were not familiar with the substantive work that has been on TE networks over the years, notably: - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF TE that are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading RFC7926 as a good primer on existing RFCs as well as some background that predates the current TEAS ACTN work. - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3 MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is just as important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good references for this. On a more specific note, this section is missing the intersection of VPNs and RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC 6882. Even more notably, the section is missing that TE LSPs can support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by RFC2212 (even if some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as: Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes it possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and bandwidth. - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is concerned with "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation (jitter) and assured maximum end-to-end delivery latency." (leveraging existing RFCs to the maximum extent possible.) But much of the rest of the section contradicts this and I really can't seem to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes sense in the context of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and deterministic latency. Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or independently. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in the DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and support) by DetNet. - finally, WRT timing I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF could be relevant. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jul 2017 13:06:16.4548 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM2PR07MB0868 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SfUhTURjGOffebXejyWlpvmgSDCowM7/+EBNTiTBQCiJKM3LMmzN12q75 FYSioE40Syu/QJO50JCGFhrLxDEskzSn9KGIpoZKX86PZE6t3d0F/fd73uc5h/O8HJqUlQq8 6FR1NqNRK9LlQglVf6kHjg3dUsYHbAyHhZYV/6BCi+7oUCQRo9PZiJiVrmLhOSJBEp7MpKfm MJrjEUkS1ez9D0SWLiBv4/uIoBBtHtYiMQ04BOq37KQWSWgZNiP4tN7nEm8QTC09F3GCwpUk vDUMinjnAQF6/T0hL+YR1G73OQRNC3EYLJhiuXvdcSyUN76gON7n4PYNg4Cfx4Gtd47gOQim RpadGQofghLLupOlOBEM3XVOluET8MtmFnEsxuGwufaQ5BhhH6g2tiKOSewJkwvNBN8Hg+7l KMmzByzP7wq4dyJcgcBa8dplHITptiYBzz5gaa5AXAjwrBAGJ2tdoThYtNS4jDkCnn4dc53w hao1I8E1BpwG9SNH+EwLAvPvLRGfGRNAqWU/zwfAVrVA8aFuAfQ+HiX4vXjB9EQ5qka+Df/V 4NkPWoyrQp6Pgv7RN7LBuZq9MFS/QLUgqgN5sAzLZqQEBfkzmlQly2aq/dVMdhdyfI+BZ/aw XjSwGGVCmEbyPdIvocp4mUCRw+ZnmBDQpNxdqs91jKTJivwCRpN5VXMznWFNyJum5J7SyFfv L8lwiiKbSWOYLEbzzyVosVchqrYVlT3RLvUl1O10RvS/U93udIum/YPdGtLt7Vt58apKq/nk mL39Qu6O9bP3+J8yvyurp/MLjAFS7cVoMuDGrHFbudh87fIZyUpH5s+I+J6omZqcj40bpWm7 KcFeUePD0TPa5PN3A8XNltrtEmvHhPpsm7lJFJIUfaqo1ZB4vV9OsSpFoC+pYRV/AZqnTZQa AwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:06:26 -0000 Hi all, while i totally share Lou's point of view I'd like to add some references t= hat might help understanding what is already there and possibly targeting a= better gap analysis. The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped against 4 KEY requirements a= re very valuable but I struggle to see the difference between them and the = ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 service-related requirements and 5 netwo= rk-related requirements (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-r= equirements-05 WG document since Oct 2015). When it comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly pointed= out at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for Information Exchan= ge between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered Networks) and on the TEAS WG a= nd PCE WG pages you can find a number of documents including framework, abs= traction methods, info model, interfaces, applicability of PCE and YANG mod= els to ACTN, telemetry. In particular I'd like to mention the ACTN VN, whic= h is a construct that sees to address many of the requirements for the netw= ork slicing.=20 My analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm missing). Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like exactly an ACT= N Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I understand to be missing= to the VN is the reachability scope (limited scope vs Internet-wide). Req 2 - Network Slicing Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be one of = the MDSC functionalities, actually the most important. Req 3 - Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is a targ= et that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources can be dedica= ted to a slice or shared among slices and the computation done with constra= ints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are already available (even if this is at= an earlier stage). Req 4 - Network Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined as a set= of stitched tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for tunnels and LSPs = are automatically inherited. Two more detailed comments: 1. Section 5.2.3. It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer 1. For transport network slicing, resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+ (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but have not been addressed by ACTN." I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis (according to some p= eople it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and someone believes it's laye= r 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE technology, including MPLS-TE and SR-T= E. Building a slice without TE, well, it can be done, but how is it possibl= e to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and so on?=20 2. Section 6.2.3. It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay tunnels of the VPN service connections. However, the requirement of some emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but also has quite strict requirement on latency, jitter, etc. Such requirements can hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE." RSVP-TE is used to reserve the resource along the path meeting the required= constraints. If such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, otherwise no one= can. Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in Table 2. Thank you Daniele =20 -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08 To: netslices@ietf.org Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis Hi, With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be done on = the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to build on (and at w= orst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In reading this draft, I reall= y felt like the authors were not familiar with the substantive work that ha= s been on TE networks over the years, notably: - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF TE that = are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading RFC7926 as a good = primer on existing RFCs as well as some background that predates the curren= t TEAS ACTN work. - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3=20 MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is just as= important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good references for this. = On a more specific note, this section is missing the intersection of VPNs a= nd RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC 6882. Even more notably, the section is mis= sing that TE LSPs can support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by = RFC2212 (even if some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as= : Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes it possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and bandwidth. - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is concerned with= "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation (jitter) and assured m= aximum end-to-end delivery latency." (leveraging existing RFCs to the maxim= um extent possible.) But much of the rest of the section contradicts this = and I really can't seem to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes se= nse in the context of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and determi= nistic latency. Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or independe= ntly. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in the Det= Net WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow requirements/capabilities = and how to they might be leveraged (and support) by DetNet. - finally, WRT timing I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF could be = relevant. Lou _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Mon Jul 10 08:35:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51EDE1317BB for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 08:34:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16c-GcqvNcPN for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 08:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr00101.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.0.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EF371316EE for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 15:34:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F5EE3678-F9D4-4B7A-B707-07CC1DFD9A8D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Lou, Daniele and All Thank you for your constructive comments and views. Please note that there are references and suggestions on how ACTN = tenologieies could be used in part for Network Slicing in the following = drafts: =E2=80=A2 Network Slicing - Revised Problem Statement = draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-01 =E2=80=A2 Network Slicing Architecture = draft-geng-netslices-architecture-02 =E2=80=A2 Network Slicing Use Cases: Network Customization and = Differentiated Services draft-netslices-usecases-01 Please also note that we are not proposing an other VPN++ or an other = overlay to be defined /designed at IETF. What would be the point of such = unnecessary proposals which would create at best yet an other network = with best effort support for all services? Some of the requirements for NetSlicing are similar to ACTN requirements = however they differ in the following key characterisations: =E2=80=A2 NS is mainly an in-band management concept in support well at = least one service at a given time. It is also coordinating/orchestrating = network functions and resources. =E2=80=A2 NS is dynamically and non-disruptively reprovisioned. =E2=80=A2 Network slices are concurrently deployed as multiple logical, = self-contained and independent, partitioned network & service functions = and resources (connectivity, storage and computation resources) a = common physical infrastructure in order to support well at least one = service at a given time. * NS has as the ability to dynamically expose and possibly negotiate the = parameters that characterise an network slice. Network slices are = configurable and programmable. =E2=80=A2 NS has its own operator that sees it as a complete network = infrastructure and to use part of the network resources to meet = stringent resource requirements. =E2=80=A2 NS is supporting tenant(s) that are strongly independent on = infrastructure. =E2=80=A2 NS is introducing an additional layer of abstraction by the = creation of logically or physically isolated groups of network resources = and network function/virtual network functions configurations separating = its behaviour from the underlying physical network. =20 As such NS is not an overlay or an underlay (i.e. a VPN++) I hope that the above would be of help to you. Best Regards Alex > On 10 Jul 2017, at 14:06, Daniele Ceccarelli = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > while i totally share Lou's point of view I'd like to add some = references that might help understanding what is already there and = possibly targeting a better gap analysis. >=20 > The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped against 4 KEY = requirements are very valuable but I struggle to see the difference = between them and the ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 service-related = requirements and 5 network-related requirements = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-requirements-05 WG = document since Oct 2015). >=20 > When it comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly = pointed out at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for = Information Exchange between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered Networks) = and on the TEAS WG and PCE WG pages you can find a number of documents = including framework, abstraction methods, info model, interfaces, = applicability of PCE and YANG models to ACTN, telemetry. In particular = I'd like to mention the ACTN VN, which is a construct that sees to = address many of the requirements for the network slicing.=20 >=20 > My analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm = missing). > Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like exactly = an Ato be CTN Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I = understand to be missing to the VN is the reachability scope (limited = scope vs Internet-wide). > Req 2 - Network Slicing Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be = one of the MDSC functionalities, actually the most important. > Req 3 - Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is a = target that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources can be = dedicated to a slice or shared among slices and the computation done = with constraints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are already available = (even if this is at an earlier stage). > Req 4 - Network Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined as = a set of stitched tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for tunnels = and LSPs are automatically inherited. >=20 > Two more detailed comments: >=20 > 1. Section 5.2.3. > It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource > abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer 1. For transport > network slicing, resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+ > (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but have not > been addressed by ACTN." > I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis (according to = some people it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and someone believes = it's layer 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE technology, including = MPLS-TE and SR-TE. Building a slice without TE, well, it can be done, = but how is it possible to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and so on?=20 >=20 >=20 > 2. Section 6.2.3. > It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay tunnels > of the VPN service connections. However, the requirement of some > emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but also has > quite strict requirement on latency, jitter, etc. Such requirements > can hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE." > RSVP-TE is used to reserve the resource along the path meeting the = required constraints. If such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, = otherwise no one can. >=20 > Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in Table 2. >=20 > Thank you > Daniele =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou = Berger > Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08 > To: netslices@ietf.org > Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on = draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis >=20 > Hi, >=20 > With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be = done on the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to build = on (and at worst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In reading this = draft, I really felt like the authors were not familiar with the = substantive work that has been on TE networks over the years, notably: >=20 > - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination >=20 > There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF TE = that are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading RFC7926 as = a good primer on existing RFCs as well as some background that predates = the current TEAS ACTN work. >=20 > - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3=20 >=20 > MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is = just as important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good references = for this. On a more specific note, this section is missing the = intersection of VPNs and RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC 6882. Even more = notably, the section is missing that TE LSPs can support the Guaranteed = Quality of Service defined by RFC2212 (even if some vendors choose not = to implement it), GS is defined as: >=20 > Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) > bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes = it > possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and > bandwidth. >=20 > - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 >=20 > I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is concerned = with "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation (jitter) and = assured maximum end-to-end delivery latency." (leveraging existing RFCs = to the maximum extent possible.) But much of the rest of the section = contradicts this and I really can't seem to parse the 2nd paragraph in = any way that makes sense in the context of detnet or delivering low = loss, low jitter and deterministic latency. >=20 > Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or = independently. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday > (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in = the DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow = requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and > support) by DetNet. >=20 > - finally, WRT timing >=20 > I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF = could be relevant. >=20 > Lou >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices --Apple-Mail=_F5EE3678-F9D4-4B7A-B707-07CC1DFD9A8D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Lou, Daniele and All

Thank you for your constructive = comments  and views.

Please note that there are references and suggestions on how = ACTN tenologieies could be used in part for Network Slicing in the = following drafts:

=E2=80=A2 Network Slicing - Revised Problem = Statement draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-01
=E2=80=A2 Network Slicing = Architecture draft-geng-netslices-architecture-02
=E2=80=A2 Network Slicing Use Cases: Network = Customization and = Differentiated Services draft-netslices-usecases-01

Please also note that we = are not proposing an other VPN++ or an other overlay to be = defined /designed at IETF. What would be the point of = such unnecessary proposals  which would create at best = yet an other network with best effort support for all = services?

Some = of the requirements for NetSlicing are similar to ACTN requirements = however they differ in the following = key characterisations:

=E2=80=A2 NS is mainly an in-band management concept in support  well at least one service at a given time. It is = also coordinating/orchestrating network functions and resources.

=E2=80=A2 NS is dynamically and non-disruptively = reprovisioned.

=E2=80=A2 Network slices are concurrently deployed as multiple logical, self-contained and independent, partitioned network = & service functions and resources (connectivity, storage and computation  resources) a = common physical infrastructure in order to support well at least one service at a given time.

* NS has as the = ability to dynamically expose and possibly negotiate the parameters that characterise an network = slice. Network slices are configurable and programmable.

=E2=80=A2 NS has its own operator that sees it as a complete network infrastructure and to use part of the network resources = to meet stringent resource requirements.

=E2=80=A2 NS is = supporting tenant(s) that are strongly independent on infrastructure.

=E2=80=A2 NS is = introducing an additional layer of abstraction by the creation of logically or physically isolated groups of network = resources and network function/virtual network functions configurations separating = its behaviour from the underlying physical network.  

As such NS is not an = overlay or an underlay (i.e. a VPN++)

I hope = that the above would be of help to you.

Best Regards
Alex



On 10 Jul 2017, at 14:06, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi = all,

while i totally share Lou's point of = view I'd like to add some references that might help understanding what = is already there and possibly targeting a better gap analysis.

The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped = against 4 KEY requirements are very valuable but I struggle to see the = difference between them and the ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 = service-related requirements and 5 network-related requirements (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-requirements-0= 5 WG document since Oct 2015).

When it = comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly pointed out = at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for Information Exchange = between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered Networks) and on the TEAS WG = and PCE WG pages you can find a number of documents including framework, = abstraction methods, info model, interfaces, applicability of PCE and = YANG models to ACTN, telemetry. In particular I'd like to mention the = ACTN VN, which is a construct that sees to address many of the = requirements for the network slicing.

My = analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm missing).
Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like = exactly an Ato be CTN Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I = understand to be missing to the VN is the reachability scope (limited = scope vs Internet-wide).
Req 2 - Network Slicing = Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be one of the MDSC = functionalities, actually the most important.
Req 3 - = Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is a target = that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources can be = dedicated to a slice or shared among slices and the computation done = with constraints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are already available = (even if this is at an earlier stage).
Req 4 - Network = Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined as a set of stitched = tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for tunnels and LSPs are = automatically inherited.

Two more detailed = comments:

1. Section  5.2.3.
It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource
  abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer = 1.  For transport
  network slicing, = resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+
=   (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but = have not
  been addressed by ACTN."
I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis = (according to some people it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and = someone believes it's layer 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE = technology, including MPLS-TE and SR-TE. Building a slice without TE, = well, it can be done, but how is it possible to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and = so on?


2. Section 6.2.3.
It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay = tunnels
  of the VPN service connections. =  However, the requirement of some
=   emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but = also has
  quite strict requirement on latency, = jitter, etc.  Such requirements
  can = hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE."
RSVP-TE is used to = reserve the resource along the path meeting the required constraints. If = such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, otherwise no one can.

Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in = Table 2.

Thank you
Daniele =  

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou = Berger
Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08
To: = netslices@ietf.orgSubject: [Netslices] Some comments on = draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis

Hi,

With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure = there is work to be done on the topic, but I think it would be good for = such work to build on (and at worst, understand) the IETF = technology/RFCs.  In reading this draft, I really felt like the = authors were not familiar with the substantive work that has been on TE = networks over the years, notably:

- Section = 5.2 cross domain coordination

There are = many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF TE that are = missing from the 'gap analysis' .  I suggest reading RFC7926 as a = good primer on existing RFCs as well as some background that predates = the current TEAS ACTN work.

- WRT Section = 6.2.1 and 2.3

MPLS-TE solutions are = broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is just as important. =  RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good references for this. =  On a more specific note, this section is missing the intersection = of VPNs and RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC 6882.  Even more notably, = the section is missing that TE LSPs can support the Guaranteed Quality = of Service defined by RFC2212 (even if some vendors choose not to = implement it), GS is defined as:

=   Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically = provable)
  bounds on end-to-end datagram = queueing delays.  This service makes it
=   possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay = and
  bandwidth.

- = Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5

I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is = concerned with "low packet loss rates, low packet  delay variation = (jitter) and assured maximum end-to-end delivery latency." (leveraging = existing RFCs to the maximum extent possible.)  But much of the = rest of the section contradicts this and I really can't seem to parse = the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes sense in the context of detnet = or delivering low loss, low jitter and deterministic latency.

Also,  I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in = the context or DetNet or independently.  FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN = tutorial scheduled for Sunday
(1345-1445 in Congress Hall = III) and we'll be spending some time in the DetNet WG session on = understanding 802.1 TSN's flow requirements/capabilities and how to they = might be leveraged (and
support) by DetNet.

- finally, WRT timing

I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in = IETF could be relevant.

Lou

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[213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z101sm17505097wrb.41.2017.07.10.09.08.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Jul 2017 09:08:11 -0700 (PDT) To: Alex Galis , Daniele Ceccarelli , Lou Berger Cc: "netslices@ietf.org" References: <28DB5287-8FB2-459D-BACA-AAB330C2E320@ucl.ac.uk> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:08:09 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <28DB5287-8FB2-459D-BACA-AAB330C2E320@ucl.ac.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0EACE29993A1E4C858FE6E56" Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysiswe are not X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:08:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0EACE29993A1E4C858FE6E56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 10/07/2017 16:34, Alex Galis wrote: > Hi Lou, Daniele and All > > Thank you for your constructive comments and views. > > Please note that there are references and suggestions on how ACTN > tenologieies could be used in part for Network Slicing in the > following drafts: > > • Network Slicing - Revised Problem > Statement draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-01 > • Network Slicing Architecture draft-geng-netslices-architecture-02 > • Network Slicing Use Cases: Network Customization and > Differentiated Services draft-netslices-usecases-01 How is that relevant to these slides, they do not talk about ACTN. > > Please also note that we are not proposing an other VPN++ or an other > overlay to be defined /designed at IETF. What would be the point of > such unnecessary proposals which would create at best yet an > other network with best effort support for all services? I am talking about VPN+, these new slides do not. Although the issue of how you instantiate your ideas in the dataplane is something I look forward to you explaining to us. Here I don't want a pointer to an obscure theoretical text. If you were asked to build a physical system to shift the bits in a project starting the week after IETF, how would you do it? > > Some of the requirements for NetSlicing are similar to ACTN > requirements however they differ in the following key characterisations: > > • NS is mainly an in-band management concept in support well at least > one service at a given time. It is also coordinating/orchestrating > network functions and resources. > Don't you immediately hit Turing's problem with that? You need to create the service out of band, and you are going to have to do a lot of other management out of band? > • NS is dynamically and non-disruptively reprovisioned. > I don't think we have said otherwise, although I don't see how you achieve that in a strict definition of non-disruptive. Indeed I think that you can prove that this is infeasible. For example if you reprovision a path to one with greater capacity (or less capacity to free up unused resources) how you avoid the latency change or packet misorder? > • Network slices are concurrently deployed as multiple logical, > self-contained and independent, partitioned network & service > functions and resources (connectivity, storage and computation > resources) a common physical infrastructure in order to support well > at least one service at a given time. > What does that mean in practice? I really think you need to show us data plane types how you achieve that. > * NS has as the ability to dynamically expose and possibly negotiate > the parameters that characterise an network slice. Network slices are > configurable and programmable. > We agree, show me where the slides say otherwise? > • NS has its own operator that sees it as a complete network > infrastructure and to use part of the network resources to meet > stringent resource requirements. > The devil is in the detail here which I look forward to you describing to the rest of us. > • NS is supporting tenant(s) that are strongly independent on > infrastructure. > Where has anyone said otherwise? > • NS is introducing an additional layer of abstraction by the creation > of logically or physically isolated groups of network resources and > network function/virtual network functions configurations separating > its behaviour from the underlying physical network. > I think you need to explain that to us, or at least to me a little more clearly. All abstractions need to resolve to the physics of the service, so lets understand what your statement means in practical terms. > As such NS is not an overlay or an underlay (i.e. a VPN++) > OK, put your description of the physics on the table, because I can guarantee you will get that question at the BOF. > I hope that the above would be of help to you. No, I need to understand how I actually build one of these systems, and in none of your work have you explained to me how you get a tenant's packets from A to B with the constraints you propose. So without reference to am obscure text please explain how we generate the the physical realization of one of these systems? Best Regards - Stewart > > Best Regards > Alex > > > >> On 10 Jul 2017, at 14:06, Daniele Ceccarelli >> > > wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> while i totally share Lou's point of view I'd like to add some >> references that might help understanding what is already there and >> possibly targeting a better gap analysis. >> >> The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped against 4 KEY >> requirements are very valuable but I struggle to see the difference >> between them and the ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 >> service-related requirements and 5 network-related requirements >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-requirements-05 WG >> document since Oct 2015). >> >> When it comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly >> pointed out at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for >> Information Exchange between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered >> Networks) and on the TEAS WG and PCE WG pages you can find a number >> of documents including framework, abstraction methods, info model, >> interfaces, applicability of PCE and YANG models to ACTN, telemetry. >> In particular I'd like to mention the ACTN VN, which is a construct >> that sees to address many of the requirements for the network slicing. >> >> My analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm missing). >> Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like exactly >> an Ato be CTN Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I >> understand to be missing to the VN is the reachability scope (limited >> scope vs Internet-wide). >> Req 2 - Network Slicing Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be >> one of the MDSC functionalities, actually the most important. >> Req 3 - Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is >> a target that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources >> can be dedicated to a slice or shared among slices and the >> computation done with constraints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are >> already available (even if this is at an earlier stage). >> Req 4 - Network Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined as >> a set of stitched tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for >> tunnels and LSPs are automatically inherited. >> >> Two more detailed comments: >> >> 1. Section 5.2.3. >> It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource >> abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer 1. For transport >> network slicing, resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+ >> (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but have not >> been addressed by ACTN." >> I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis (according to >> some people it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and someone >> believes it's layer 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE technology, >> including MPLS-TE and SR-TE. Building a slice without TE, well, it >> can be done, but how is it possible to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and so on? >> >> >> 2. Section 6.2.3. >> It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay tunnels >> of the VPN service connections. However, the requirement of some >> emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but also has >> quite strict requirement on latency, jitter, etc. Such requirements >> can hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE." >> RSVP-TE is used to reserve the resource along the path meeting the >> required constraints. If such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, >> otherwise no one can. >> >> Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in Table 2. >> >> Thank you >> Daniele >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou >> Berger >> Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08 >> To: netslices@ietf.org >> Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis >> >> Hi, >> >> With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be >> done on the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to >> build on (and at worst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In >> reading this draft, I really felt like the authors were not familiar >> with the substantive work that has been on TE networks over the >> years, notably: >> >> - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination >> >> There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF TE >> that are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading RFC7926 >> as a good primer on existing RFCs as well as some background that >> predates the current TEAS ACTN work. >> >> - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3 >> >> MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is >> just as important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good >> references for this. On a more specific note, this section is >> missing the intersection of VPNs and RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC >> 6882. Even more notably, the section is missing that TE LSPs can >> support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by RFC2212 (even if >> some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as: >> >> Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) >> bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes it >> possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and >> bandwidth. >> >> - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 >> >> I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is >> concerned with "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation >> (jitter) and assured maximum end-to-end delivery latency." >> (leveraging existing RFCs to the maximum extent possible.) But much >> of the rest of the section contradicts this and I really can't seem >> to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes sense in the context >> of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and deterministic latency. >> >> Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or >> independently. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday >> (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in >> the DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow >> requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and >> support) by DetNet. >> >> - finally, WRT timing >> >> I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF >> could be relevant. >> >> Lou >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices --------------0EACE29993A1E4C858FE6E56 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 10/07/2017 16:34, Alex Galis wrote:
Hi Lou, Daniele and All

Thank you for your constructive comments  and views.

Please note that there are references and suggestions on how ACTN tenologieies could be used in part for Network Slicing in the following drafts:

• Network Slicing - Revised Problem Statement draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-01
• Network Slicing Architecture draft-geng-netslices-architecture-02
• Network Slicing Use Cases: Network Customization and Differentiated Services draft-netslices-usecases-01

How is that relevant to these slides, they do not talk about ACTN.


Please also note that we are not proposing an other VPN++ or an other overlay to be defined /designed at IETF. What would be the point of such unnecessary proposals  which would create at best yet an other network with best effort support for all services?

I am talking about VPN+, these new slides do not. Although the issue of how you instantiate your ideas in the dataplane is something I look forward to you explaining to us. Here I don't want a pointer to an obscure theoretical text. If you were asked to build a physical system to shift the bits in a project starting the week after IETF, how would you do it?


Some of the requirements for NetSlicing are similar to ACTN requirements however they differ in the following key characterisations:

• NS is mainly an in-band management concept in support  well at least one service at a given time. It is also coordinating/orchestrating network functions and resources.


Don't you immediately hit Turing's problem with that? You need to create the service out of band, and you are going to have to do a lot of other management out of band?

• NS is dynamically and non-disruptively reprovisioned.


I don't think we have said otherwise, although I don't see how you achieve that in a strict definition of non-disruptive. Indeed I think that you can prove that this is infeasible. For example if you reprovision a path to one with greater capacity (or less capacity to free up unused resources) how you avoid the latency change or packet misorder?

• Network slices are concurrently deployed as multiple logical, self-contained and independent, partitioned network & service functions and resources (connectivity, storage and computation  resources) a common physical infrastructure in order to support well at least one service at a given time.


What does that mean in practice? I really think you need to show us data plane types how you achieve that.

* NS has as the ability to dynamically expose and possibly negotiate the parameters that characterise an network slice. Network slices are configurable and programmable.


We agree, show me where the slides say otherwise?

• NS has its own operator that sees it as a complete network infrastructure and to use part of the network resources to meet stringent resource requirements.


The devil is in the detail here which I look forward to you describing to the rest of us.

• NS is supporting tenant(s) that are strongly independent on infrastructure.

Where has anyone said otherwise?

• NS is introducing an additional layer of abstraction by the creation of logically or physically isolated groups of network resources and network function/virtual network functions configurations separating its behaviour from the underlying physical network. 

I think you need to explain that to us, or at least to me a little more clearly. All abstractions need to resolve to the physics of the service, so lets understand what your statement means in practical terms.

As such NS is not an overlay or an underlay (i.e. a VPN++)


OK, put your description of  the physics on the table, because I can guarantee you will get that question at the BOF.

I hope that the above would be of help to you.

No, I need to understand how I actually build one of these systems, and in none of your work have you explained to me how you get a tenant's packets from A to B with the constraints you propose. So without reference to am obscure text please explain how we generate the the physical realization of one of these systems?

Best Regards

- Stewart

Best Regards
Alex



On 10 Jul 2017, at 14:06, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi all,

while i totally share Lou's point of view I'd like to add some references that might help understanding what is already there and possibly targeting a better gap analysis.

The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped against 4 KEY requirements are very valuable but I struggle to see the difference between them and the ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 service-related requirements and 5 network-related requirements (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-requirements-05 WG document since Oct 2015).

When it comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly pointed out at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for Information Exchange between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered Networks) and on the TEAS WG and PCE WG pages you can find a number of documents including framework, abstraction methods, info model, interfaces, applicability of PCE and YANG models to ACTN, telemetry. In particular I'd like to mention the ACTN VN, which is a construct that sees to address many of the requirements for the network slicing.

My analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm missing).
Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like exactly an Ato be CTN Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I understand to be missing to the VN is the reachability scope (limited scope vs Internet-wide).
Req 2 - Network Slicing Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be one of the MDSC functionalities, actually the most important.
Req 3 - Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is a target that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources can be dedicated to a slice or shared among slices and the computation done with constraints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are already available (even if this is at an earlier stage).
Req 4 - Network Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined as a set of stitched tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for tunnels and LSPs are automatically inherited.

Two more detailed comments:

1. Section  5.2.3.
It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource
  abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer 1.  For transport
  network slicing, resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+
  (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but have not
  been addressed by ACTN."
I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis (according to some people it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and someone believes it's layer 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE technology, including MPLS-TE and SR-TE. Building a slice without TE, well, it can be done, but how is it possible to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and so on?


2. Section 6.2.3.
It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay tunnels
  of the VPN service connections.  However, the requirement of some
  emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but also has
  quite strict requirement on latency, jitter, etc.  Such requirements
  can hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE."
RSVP-TE is used to reserve the resource along the path meeting the required constraints. If such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, otherwise no one can.

Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in Table 2.

Thank you
Daniele  

-----Original Message-----
From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger
Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08
To: netslices@ietf.org
Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis

Hi,

With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be done on the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to build on (and at worst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs.  In reading this draft, I really felt like the authors were not familiar with the substantive work that has been on TE networks over the years, notably:

- Section 5.2 cross domain coordination

There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF TE that are missing from the 'gap analysis' .  I suggest reading RFC7926 as a good primer on existing RFCs as well as some background that predates the current TEAS ACTN work.

- WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3

MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is just as important.  RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good references for this.  On a more specific note, this section is missing the intersection of VPNs and RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC 6882.  Even more notably, the section is missing that TE LSPs can support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by RFC2212 (even if some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as:

  Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable)
  bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays.  This service makes it
  possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and
  bandwidth.

- Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5

I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is concerned with "low packet loss rates, low packet  delay variation (jitter) and assured maximum end-to-end delivery latency." (leveraging existing RFCs to the maximum extent possible.)  But much of the rest of the section contradicts this and I really can't seem to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes sense in the context of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and deterministic latency.

Also,  I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or independently.  FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday
(1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in the DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and
support) by DetNet.

- finally, WRT timing

I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF could be relevant.

Lou


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--------------0EACE29993A1E4C858FE6E56-- From nobody Mon Jul 10 09:57:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFC012704A for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 09:57:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5DMYMgn5MK4i for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 09:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound-ss-1812.hostmonster.com (gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.25.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B9C21317E0 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 09:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw4 (cmgw5 [10.0.90.85]) by gproxy1.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04253175AC6 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw4 with id j4xi1v00t2SSUrH014xl0N; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:57:46 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=eYdNR/MH c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=G3gG6ho9WtcA:10 a=pCy3HuxDW60bAcpTJxgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=370xlKvgO5iXPyBX7yO1v+GEK9BGaCgwmUvrEEhXbMs=; b=lkzxcFY7okHFc2EeLdtaK6vUxi TG+axbAxeHpNzoqSS+6lIbD5XydJKDP9fsrZx0ZwXm3w+ikGDSybqkfgxGzOfWfF+xYLEj9ZhfqLI LXEuQWzm3ckNGnno9RbEr33l8; Received: from pool-100-15-84-20.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.84.20]:33492 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dUc0E-0023nn-Qv; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:57:42 -0600 To: Alex Galis , Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: "netslices@ietf.org" References: <28DB5287-8FB2-459D-BACA-AAB330C2E320@ucl.ac.uk> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <4cde3b74-6d03-69f1-d6ba-fd3be0ad3eb4@labn.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:57:37 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <28DB5287-8FB2-459D-BACA-AAB330C2E320@ucl.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.84.20 X-Exim-ID: 1dUc0E-0023nn-Qv X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-84-20.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.84.20]:33492 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysiswe are not X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:57:50 -0000 On 7/10/2017 11:34 AM, Alex Galis wrote: > Please note that there are references and suggestions on how ACTN > tenologieies could be used in part for Network Slicing in the > following drafts: > Umm, ACTN was not really the main subject of my email. It was more about the full breadth of IETF TE technologies (of which ACTN is a recent addition), the existence of Guaranteed Service (RFC2212) and scope of DetNet... Lou From nobody Mon Jul 10 10:12:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63DEE13183B for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:12:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OqGiWXjY2vUn for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound-ss-1812.hostmonster.com (gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.25.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD95913183E for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw3 (cmgw4 [10.0.90.84]) by gproxy1.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54391760E7 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw3 with id j5BX1v01p2SSUrH015Bazj; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:11:35 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UM2tJGXy c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=G3gG6ho9WtcA:10 a=dHJOhkScAAAA:8 a=0FD05c-RAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=usG6GUsw8XM8PrA_3-8A:9 a=fZEtabRx08J3k3aY:21 a=Mh67UEZ98UhhVVe4:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=0Jc9p3VZYLcdQ-t9l-12:22 a=l1rpMCqCXRGZwUSuRcM3:22 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=KJh34SX9gXcz7nAB2Ko/t1OYufEYWOg2zSjn6j3NNJ4=; b=aNZ6qpOde2odPHB8/KGhuFMZfc oX1AeE85pd06pSdhq4lo9YoqgA9Pz+yAtNFGWuCYfnXTJTBq/cEOESZmZNS3OJKgvK42emVx759G+ BxgHanNwSHM+I+KMp0ViKw3Os; Received: from pool-100-15-84-20.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.84.20]:33694 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dUcDb-0026aG-G1; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0600 To: Stewart Bryant , Alex Galis , Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: "netslices@ietf.org" References: <28DB5287-8FB2-459D-BACA-AAB330C2E320@ucl.ac.uk> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <8f1cfab0-5e2a-8d6d-6812-9fcf079ecf4a@labn.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:11:25 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.84.20 X-Exim-ID: 1dUcDb-0026aG-G1 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-84-20.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.84.20]:33694 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 4 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysiswe are not X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:12:35 -0000 Stewart, Your mail is a bit hard to follow as it seems that you are disagreeing with Alex's comments but attributing them to Daniel. It seems you are really just trying to understand data plane details, and I suspect you are more interested in traffic handling vs marking. Is this correct? If so, I suggest starting with RFC2112 for the IETF definition of a bonded delay and bandwidth service and to see where detnet headed see 802.1 TSN (http://www.ieee802.org/1/ -- there is even 802.1CM - Time-Sensitive Networking for Fronthaul). If you're interested in marking, existing TE solutions are MPLS based (control can be whatever you'd like) and DetNet is currently planning MPLS+PWs and IPv6. Lou PS In case you missed it: There is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in the DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and support) by DetNet. On 7/10/2017 12:08 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: > > > > On 10/07/2017 16:34, Alex Galis wrote: >> Hi Lou, Daniele and All >> >> Thank you for your constructive comments and views. >> >> Please note that there are references and suggestions on how ACTN >> tenologieies could be used in part for Network Slicing in the >> following drafts: >> >> • Network Slicing - Revised Problem >> Statement draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-01 >> • Network Slicing Architecture draft-geng-netslices-architecture-02 >> • Network Slicing Use Cases: Network Customization and >> Differentiated Services draft-netslices-usecases-01 > > How is that relevant to these slides, they do not talk about ACTN. > >> >> Please also note that we are not proposing an other VPN++ or an other >> overlay to be defined /designed at IETF. What would be the point of >> such unnecessary proposals which would create at best yet an >> other network with best effort support for all services? > > I am talking about VPN+, these new slides do not. Although the issue > of how you instantiate your ideas in the dataplane is something I look > forward to you explaining to us. Here I don't want a pointer to an > obscure theoretical text. If you were asked to build a physical system > to shift the bits in a project starting the week after IETF, how would > you do it? > >> >> Some of the requirements for NetSlicing are similar to ACTN >> requirements however they differ in the following key characterisations: >> >> • NS is mainly an in-band management concept in support well at >> least one service at a given time. It is also >> coordinating/orchestrating network functions and resources. >> > > Don't you immediately hit Turing's problem with that? You need to > create the service out of band, and you are going to have to do a lot > of other management out of band? > >> • NS is dynamically and non-disruptively reprovisioned. >> > > I don't think we have said otherwise, although I don't see how you > achieve that in a strict definition of non-disruptive. Indeed I think > that you can prove that this is infeasible. For example if you > reprovision a path to one with greater capacity (or less capacity to > free up unused resources) how you avoid the latency change or packet > misorder? > >> • Network slices are concurrently deployed as multiple logical, >> self-contained and independent, partitioned network & service >> functions and resources (connectivity, storage and computation >> resources) a common physical infrastructure in order to support well >> at least one service at a given time. >> > > What does that mean in practice? I really think you need to show us > data plane types how you achieve that. > >> * NS has as the ability to dynamically expose and possibly negotiate >> the parameters that characterise an network slice. Network slices are >> configurable and programmable. >> > > We agree, show me where the slides say otherwise? > >> • NS has its own operator that sees it as a complete network >> infrastructure and to use part of the network resources to meet >> stringent resource requirements. >> > > The devil is in the detail here which I look forward to you describing > to the rest of us. > >> • NS is supporting tenant(s) that are strongly independent on >> infrastructure. >> > Where has anyone said otherwise? > >> • NS is introducing an additional layer of abstraction by the >> creation of logically or physically isolated groups of network >> resources and network function/virtual network functions >> configurations separating its behaviour from the underlying physical >> network. >> > I think you need to explain that to us, or at least to me a little > more clearly. All abstractions need to resolve to the physics of the > service, so lets understand what your statement means in practical terms. > >> As such NS is not an overlay or an underlay (i.e. a VPN++) >> > > OK, put your description of the physics on the table, because I can > guarantee you will get that question at the BOF. > >> I hope that the above would be of help to you. > > No, I need to understand how I actually build one of these systems, > and in none of your work have you explained to me how you get a > tenant's packets from A to B with the constraints you propose. So > without reference to am obscure text please explain how we generate > the the physical realization of one of these systems? > > Best Regards > > - Stewart >> >> Best Regards >> Alex >> >> >> >>> On 10 Jul 2017, at 14:06, Daniele Ceccarelli >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> while i totally share Lou's point of view I'd like to add some >>> references that might help understanding what is already there and >>> possibly targeting a better gap analysis. >>> >>> The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped against 4 KEY >>> requirements are very valuable but I struggle to see the difference >>> between them and the ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 >>> service-related requirements and 5 network-related requirements >>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-requirements-05 WG >>> document since Oct 2015). >>> >>> When it comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly >>> pointed out at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for >>> Information Exchange between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered >>> Networks) and on the TEAS WG and PCE WG pages you can find a number >>> of documents including framework, abstraction methods, info model, >>> interfaces, applicability of PCE and YANG models to ACTN, telemetry. >>> In particular I'd like to mention the ACTN VN, which is a construct >>> that sees to address many of the requirements for the network slicing. >>> >>> My analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm missing). >>> Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like exactly >>> an Ato be CTN Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I >>> understand to be missing to the VN is the reachability scope >>> (limited scope vs Internet-wide). >>> Req 2 - Network Slicing Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be >>> one of the MDSC functionalities, actually the most important. >>> Req 3 - Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is >>> a target that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources >>> can be dedicated to a slice or shared among slices and the >>> computation done with constraints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are >>> already available (even if this is at an earlier stage). >>> Req 4 - Network Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined >>> as a set of stitched tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for >>> tunnels and LSPs are automatically inherited. >>> >>> Two more detailed comments: >>> >>> 1. Section 5.2.3. >>> It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource >>> abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer 1. For transport >>> network slicing, resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+ >>> (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but have not >>> been addressed by ACTN." >>> I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis (according to >>> some people it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and someone >>> believes it's layer 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE technology, >>> including MPLS-TE and SR-TE. Building a slice without TE, well, it >>> can be done, but how is it possible to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and so on? >>> >>> >>> 2. Section 6.2.3. >>> It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay tunnels >>> of the VPN service connections. However, the requirement of some >>> emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but also has >>> quite strict requirement on latency, jitter, etc. Such requirements >>> can hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE." >>> RSVP-TE is used to reserve the resource along the path meeting the >>> required constraints. If such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, >>> otherwise no one can. >>> >>> Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in Table 2. >>> >>> Thank you >>> Daniele >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou >>> Berger >>> Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08 >>> To: netslices@ietf.org >>> Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be >>> done on the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to >>> build on (and at worst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In >>> reading this draft, I really felt like the authors were not familiar >>> with the substantive work that has been on TE networks over the >>> years, notably: >>> >>> - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination >>> >>> There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF >>> TE that are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading >>> RFC7926 as a good primer on existing RFCs as well as some background >>> that predates the current TEAS ACTN work. >>> >>> - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3 >>> >>> MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is >>> just as important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good >>> references for this. On a more specific note, this section is >>> missing the intersection of VPNs and RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC >>> 6882. Even more notably, the section is missing that TE LSPs can >>> support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by RFC2212 (even >>> if some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as: >>> >>> Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) >>> bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes it >>> possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and >>> bandwidth. >>> >>> - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 >>> >>> I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is >>> concerned with "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation >>> (jitter) and assured maximum end-to-end delivery latency." >>> (leveraging existing RFCs to the maximum extent possible.) But much >>> of the rest of the section contradicts this and I really can't seem >>> to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes sense in the >>> context of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and >>> deterministic latency. >>> >>> Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or >>> independently. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday >>> (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in >>> the DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow >>> requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and >>> support) by DetNet. >>> >>> - finally, WRT timing >>> >>> I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF >>> could be relevant. >>> >>> Lou >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netslices mailing list >>> Netslices@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netslices mailing list >>> Netslices@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > > > This body part will be downloaded on demand. 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[213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z99sm11382378wrc.12.2017.07.10.11.49.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:49:27 -0700 (PDT) To: Lou Berger , Alex Galis , Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: "netslices@ietf.org" References: <28DB5287-8FB2-459D-BACA-AAB330C2E320@ucl.ac.uk> <8f1cfab0-5e2a-8d6d-6812-9fcf079ecf4a@labn.net> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <2744a966-7e43-6056-5b2a-25af9f45aad3@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 19:49:24 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8f1cfab0-5e2a-8d6d-6812-9fcf079ecf4a@labn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysiswe are not X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 18:49:33 -0000 Hi Lou, Ah yes, you should be confused, I was confused and mixed up two threads! What I have been looking at is a tighter integration between the customer layer and the service underlay to understand how to deliver the packets properly. I did take a quick look at RFC2212 and this tells us something of how to specify performance guarantees, but seems to assume nothing more sophisticated than policing and WFQ. I am not sure that this is enough. I will not arrive in time for the 802 presentation, but I seem to remember attending one in the past where the focus was more on what documents there were than n how it worked and why it looked like it does. My interest with this is bottom up: how to get the bits across the network with the right characteristics. I don't think it matters much what the various abstraction layers look like unless the lower layers can physically deliver the tenants' bits across the network with the right characteristics. Of course we do need the upper layers to interface with the system dynamically collecting user requirements and then talk the network layer into delivering the bits, but that is a problem that I hope that others more qualified will consider, and for the moment I have no opinion on them. - Stewart On 10/07/2017 18:11, Lou Berger wrote: > Stewart, > > Your mail is a bit hard to follow as it seems that you are > disagreeing with Alex's comments but attributing them to Daniel. > > It seems you are really just trying to understand data plane details, > and I suspect you are more interested in traffic handling vs marking. Is > this correct? If so, I suggest starting with RFC2112 for the IETF > definition of a bonded delay and bandwidth service and to see where > detnet headed see 802.1 TSN (http://www.ieee802.org/1/ -- there is even > 802.1CM - Time-Sensitive Networking for Fronthaul). > > If you're interested in marking, existing TE solutions are MPLS based > (control can be whatever you'd like) and DetNet is currently planning > MPLS+PWs and IPv6. > > Lou > > PS In case you missed it: There is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for > Sunday > (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in the > DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow > requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and > support) by DetNet. > > On 7/10/2017 12:08 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: >> >> >> On 10/07/2017 16:34, Alex Galis wrote: >>> Hi Lou, Daniele and All >>> >>> Thank you for your constructive comments and views. >>> >>> Please note that there are references and suggestions on how ACTN >>> tenologieies could be used in part for Network Slicing in the >>> following drafts: >>> >>> • Network Slicing - Revised Problem >>> Statement draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-01 >>> • Network Slicing Architecture draft-geng-netslices-architecture-02 >>> • Network Slicing Use Cases: Network Customization and >>> Differentiated Services draft-netslices-usecases-01 >> How is that relevant to these slides, they do not talk about ACTN. >> >>> Please also note that we are not proposing an other VPN++ or an other >>> overlay to be defined /designed at IETF. What would be the point of >>> such unnecessary proposals which would create at best yet an >>> other network with best effort support for all services? >> I am talking about VPN+, these new slides do not. Although the issue >> of how you instantiate your ideas in the dataplane is something I look >> forward to you explaining to us. Here I don't want a pointer to an >> obscure theoretical text. If you were asked to build a physical system >> to shift the bits in a project starting the week after IETF, how would >> you do it? >> >>> Some of the requirements for NetSlicing are similar to ACTN >>> requirements however they differ in the following key characterisations: >>> >>> • NS is mainly an in-band management concept in support well at >>> least one service at a given time. It is also >>> coordinating/orchestrating network functions and resources. >>> >> Don't you immediately hit Turing's problem with that? You need to >> create the service out of band, and you are going to have to do a lot >> of other management out of band? >> >>> • NS is dynamically and non-disruptively reprovisioned. >>> >> I don't think we have said otherwise, although I don't see how you >> achieve that in a strict definition of non-disruptive. Indeed I think >> that you can prove that this is infeasible. For example if you >> reprovision a path to one with greater capacity (or less capacity to >> free up unused resources) how you avoid the latency change or packet >> misorder? >> >>> • Network slices are concurrently deployed as multiple logical, >>> self-contained and independent, partitioned network & service >>> functions and resources (connectivity, storage and computation >>> resources) a common physical infrastructure in order to support well >>> at least one service at a given time. >>> >> What does that mean in practice? I really think you need to show us >> data plane types how you achieve that. >> >>> * NS has as the ability to dynamically expose and possibly negotiate >>> the parameters that characterise an network slice. Network slices are >>> configurable and programmable. >>> >> We agree, show me where the slides say otherwise? >> >>> • NS has its own operator that sees it as a complete network >>> infrastructure and to use part of the network resources to meet >>> stringent resource requirements. >>> >> The devil is in the detail here which I look forward to you describing >> to the rest of us. >> >>> • NS is supporting tenant(s) that are strongly independent on >>> infrastructure. >>> >> Where has anyone said otherwise? >> >>> • NS is introducing an additional layer of abstraction by the >>> creation of logically or physically isolated groups of network >>> resources and network function/virtual network functions >>> configurations separating its behaviour from the underlying physical >>> network. >>> >> I think you need to explain that to us, or at least to me a little >> more clearly. All abstractions need to resolve to the physics of the >> service, so lets understand what your statement means in practical terms. >> >>> As such NS is not an overlay or an underlay (i.e. a VPN++) >>> >> OK, put your description of the physics on the table, because I can >> guarantee you will get that question at the BOF. >> >>> I hope that the above would be of help to you. >> No, I need to understand how I actually build one of these systems, >> and in none of your work have you explained to me how you get a >> tenant's packets from A to B with the constraints you propose. So >> without reference to am obscure text please explain how we generate >> the the physical realization of one of these systems? >> >> Best Regards >> >> - Stewart >>> Best Regards >>> Alex >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 10 Jul 2017, at 14:06, Daniele Ceccarelli >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> while i totally share Lou's point of view I'd like to add some >>>> references that might help understanding what is already there and >>>> possibly targeting a better gap analysis. >>>> >>>> The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped against 4 KEY >>>> requirements are very valuable but I struggle to see the difference >>>> between them and the ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 >>>> service-related requirements and 5 network-related requirements >>>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-requirements-05 WG >>>> document since Oct 2015). >>>> >>>> When it comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly >>>> pointed out at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for >>>> Information Exchange between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered >>>> Networks) and on the TEAS WG and PCE WG pages you can find a number >>>> of documents including framework, abstraction methods, info model, >>>> interfaces, applicability of PCE and YANG models to ACTN, telemetry. >>>> In particular I'd like to mention the ACTN VN, which is a construct >>>> that sees to address many of the requirements for the network slicing. >>>> >>>> My analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm missing). >>>> Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like exactly >>>> an Ato be CTN Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I >>>> understand to be missing to the VN is the reachability scope >>>> (limited scope vs Internet-wide). >>>> Req 2 - Network Slicing Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be >>>> one of the MDSC functionalities, actually the most important. >>>> Req 3 - Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is >>>> a target that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources >>>> can be dedicated to a slice or shared among slices and the >>>> computation done with constraints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are >>>> already available (even if this is at an earlier stage). >>>> Req 4 - Network Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined >>>> as a set of stitched tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for >>>> tunnels and LSPs are automatically inherited. >>>> >>>> Two more detailed comments: >>>> >>>> 1. Section 5.2.3. >>>> It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource >>>> abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer 1. For transport >>>> network slicing, resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+ >>>> (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but have not >>>> been addressed by ACTN." >>>> I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis (according to >>>> some people it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and someone >>>> believes it's layer 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE technology, >>>> including MPLS-TE and SR-TE. Building a slice without TE, well, it >>>> can be done, but how is it possible to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and so on? >>>> >>>> >>>> 2. Section 6.2.3. >>>> It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay tunnels >>>> of the VPN service connections. However, the requirement of some >>>> emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but also has >>>> quite strict requirement on latency, jitter, etc. Such requirements >>>> can hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE." >>>> RSVP-TE is used to reserve the resource along the path meeting the >>>> required constraints. If such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, >>>> otherwise no one can. >>>> >>>> Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in Table 2. >>>> >>>> Thank you >>>> Daniele >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou >>>> Berger >>>> Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08 >>>> To: netslices@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be >>>> done on the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to >>>> build on (and at worst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In >>>> reading this draft, I really felt like the authors were not familiar >>>> with the substantive work that has been on TE networks over the >>>> years, notably: >>>> >>>> - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination >>>> >>>> There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF >>>> TE that are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading >>>> RFC7926 as a good primer on existing RFCs as well as some background >>>> that predates the current TEAS ACTN work. >>>> >>>> - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3 >>>> >>>> MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is >>>> just as important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good >>>> references for this. On a more specific note, this section is >>>> missing the intersection of VPNs and RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC >>>> 6882. Even more notably, the section is missing that TE LSPs can >>>> support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by RFC2212 (even >>>> if some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as: >>>> >>>> Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) >>>> bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes it >>>> possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and >>>> bandwidth. >>>> >>>> - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 >>>> >>>> I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is >>>> concerned with "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation >>>> (jitter) and assured maximum end-to-end delivery latency." >>>> (leveraging existing RFCs to the maximum extent possible.) But much >>>> of the rest of the section contradicts this and I really can't seem >>>> to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes sense in the >>>> context of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and >>>> deterministic latency. >>>> >>>> Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or >>>> independently. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday >>>> (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in >>>> the DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow >>>> requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and >>>> support) by DetNet. >>>> >>>> - finally, WRT timing >>>> >>>> I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF >>>> could be relevant. >>>> >>>> Lou >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Netslices mailing list >>>> Netslices@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Netslices mailing list >>>> Netslices@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netslices mailing list >>> Netslices@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >> >> >> This body part will be downloaded on demand. 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 19:15:00 -0000 Hi Stewart, On 7/10/2017 2:49 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: > Hi Lou, > > Ah yes, you should be confused, I was confused and mixed up two threads! glad I'm not loosing my mind -- I'll save that for next week! > What I have been looking at is a tighter integration between the > customer layer and the service underlay to understand how to deliver the > packets properly. > > I did take a quick look at RFC2212 and this tells us something of how to > specify performance guarantees, but seems to assume nothing more > sophisticated than policing and WFQ. I am not sure that this is enough. I agree with this too, at least in the DetNet context, but it *is* the established IETF starting point. There's also support for MEF10.1 traffic parameters in RFC6003, but I think this is less interesting.. > I will not arrive in time for the 802 presentation, but I seem to > remember attending one in the past where the focus was more on what > documents there were than n how it worked and why it looked like it does. I believe the slides are posted (https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/edu/materials/) and the normal youtube should be available Late Monday or Tuesday. I'm hoping to get to the interesting parts (traffic description and handling/queuing) in the TSN discussion in Thursday AM's DetNet WG Session. > My interest with this is bottom up: how to get the bits across the > network with the right characteristics. I don't think it matters much > what the various abstraction layers look like unless the lower layers > can physically deliver the tenants' bits across the network with the > right characteristics. 100% agree and that's why much of our current discussion is on data plane in DetNet. My hope is that we'll leave this meeting with solid direction on tagging and protection, and the TSN discussion will help focus future discussion on service traffic description (flow spec). > Of course we do need the upper layers to > interface with the system dynamically collecting user requirements and > then talk the network layer into delivering the bits, but that is a > problem that I hope that others more qualified will consider, and for > the moment I have no opinion on them. That parallels DetNet as well. In addition to nailing down the data plane, we're looking to develop an information model (we'll be discussing some individual work on this in Prague) and a YANG data model in the current set of deliverables. Once that's done, we're aiming to dovetail into existing/ongoing work in other WGs, but this is a discussion for the future. Cheers, Lou > > - Stewart > > > > On 10/07/2017 18:11, Lou Berger wrote: >> Stewart, >> >> Your mail is a bit hard to follow as it seems that you are >> disagreeing with Alex's comments but attributing them to Daniel. >> >> It seems you are really just trying to understand data plane details, >> and I suspect you are more interested in traffic handling vs marking. Is >> this correct? If so, I suggest starting with RFC2112 for the IETF >> definition of a bonded delay and bandwidth service and to see where >> detnet headed see 802.1 TSN (http://www.ieee802.org/1/ -- there is even >> 802.1CM - Time-Sensitive Networking for Fronthaul). >> >> If you're interested in marking, existing TE solutions are MPLS based >> (control can be whatever you'd like) and DetNet is currently planning >> MPLS+PWs and IPv6. >> >> Lou >> >> PS In case you missed it: There is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for >> Sunday >> (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in the >> DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow >> requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and >> support) by DetNet. >> >> On 7/10/2017 12:08 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: >>> >>> On 10/07/2017 16:34, Alex Galis wrote: >>>> Hi Lou, Daniele and All >>>> >>>> Thank you for your constructive comments and views. >>>> >>>> Please note that there are references and suggestions on how ACTN >>>> tenologieies could be used in part for Network Slicing in the >>>> following drafts: >>>> >>>> • Network Slicing - Revised Problem >>>> Statement draft-galis-netslices-revised-problem-statement-01 >>>> • Network Slicing Architecture draft-geng-netslices-architecture-02 >>>> • Network Slicing Use Cases: Network Customization and >>>> Differentiated Services draft-netslices-usecases-01 >>> How is that relevant to these slides, they do not talk about ACTN. >>> >>>> Please also note that we are not proposing an other VPN++ or an other >>>> overlay to be defined /designed at IETF. What would be the point of >>>> such unnecessary proposals which would create at best yet an >>>> other network with best effort support for all services? >>> I am talking about VPN+, these new slides do not. Although the issue >>> of how you instantiate your ideas in the dataplane is something I look >>> forward to you explaining to us. Here I don't want a pointer to an >>> obscure theoretical text. If you were asked to build a physical system >>> to shift the bits in a project starting the week after IETF, how would >>> you do it? >>> >>>> Some of the requirements for NetSlicing are similar to ACTN >>>> requirements however they differ in the following key characterisations: >>>> >>>> • NS is mainly an in-band management concept in support well at >>>> least one service at a given time. It is also >>>> coordinating/orchestrating network functions and resources. >>>> >>> Don't you immediately hit Turing's problem with that? You need to >>> create the service out of band, and you are going to have to do a lot >>> of other management out of band? >>> >>>> • NS is dynamically and non-disruptively reprovisioned. >>>> >>> I don't think we have said otherwise, although I don't see how you >>> achieve that in a strict definition of non-disruptive. Indeed I think >>> that you can prove that this is infeasible. For example if you >>> reprovision a path to one with greater capacity (or less capacity to >>> free up unused resources) how you avoid the latency change or packet >>> misorder? >>> >>>> • Network slices are concurrently deployed as multiple logical, >>>> self-contained and independent, partitioned network & service >>>> functions and resources (connectivity, storage and computation >>>> resources) a common physical infrastructure in order to support well >>>> at least one service at a given time. >>>> >>> What does that mean in practice? I really think you need to show us >>> data plane types how you achieve that. >>> >>>> * NS has as the ability to dynamically expose and possibly negotiate >>>> the parameters that characterise an network slice. Network slices are >>>> configurable and programmable. >>>> >>> We agree, show me where the slides say otherwise? >>> >>>> • NS has its own operator that sees it as a complete network >>>> infrastructure and to use part of the network resources to meet >>>> stringent resource requirements. >>>> >>> The devil is in the detail here which I look forward to you describing >>> to the rest of us. >>> >>>> • NS is supporting tenant(s) that are strongly independent on >>>> infrastructure. >>>> >>> Where has anyone said otherwise? >>> >>>> • NS is introducing an additional layer of abstraction by the >>>> creation of logically or physically isolated groups of network >>>> resources and network function/virtual network functions >>>> configurations separating its behaviour from the underlying physical >>>> network. >>>> >>> I think you need to explain that to us, or at least to me a little >>> more clearly. All abstractions need to resolve to the physics of the >>> service, so lets understand what your statement means in practical terms. >>> >>>> As such NS is not an overlay or an underlay (i.e. a VPN++) >>>> >>> OK, put your description of the physics on the table, because I can >>> guarantee you will get that question at the BOF. >>> >>>> I hope that the above would be of help to you. >>> No, I need to understand how I actually build one of these systems, >>> and in none of your work have you explained to me how you get a >>> tenant's packets from A to B with the constraints you propose. So >>> without reference to am obscure text please explain how we generate >>> the the physical realization of one of these systems? >>> >>> Best Regards >>> >>> - Stewart >>>> Best Regards >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 10 Jul 2017, at 14:06, Daniele Ceccarelli >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> while i totally share Lou's point of view I'd like to add some >>>>> references that might help understanding what is already there and >>>>> possibly targeting a better gap analysis. >>>>> >>>>> The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped against 4 KEY >>>>> requirements are very valuable but I struggle to see the difference >>>>> between them and the ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 >>>>> service-related requirements and 5 network-related requirements >>>>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-requirements-05 WG >>>>> document since Oct 2015). >>>>> >>>>> When it comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly >>>>> pointed out at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for >>>>> Information Exchange between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered >>>>> Networks) and on the TEAS WG and PCE WG pages you can find a number >>>>> of documents including framework, abstraction methods, info model, >>>>> interfaces, applicability of PCE and YANG models to ACTN, telemetry. >>>>> In particular I'd like to mention the ACTN VN, which is a construct >>>>> that sees to address many of the requirements for the network slicing. >>>>> >>>>> My analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm missing). >>>>> Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like exactly >>>>> an Ato be CTN Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I >>>>> understand to be missing to the VN is the reachability scope >>>>> (limited scope vs Internet-wide). >>>>> Req 2 - Network Slicing Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be >>>>> one of the MDSC functionalities, actually the most important. >>>>> Req 3 - Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is >>>>> a target that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources >>>>> can be dedicated to a slice or shared among slices and the >>>>> computation done with constraints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are >>>>> already available (even if this is at an earlier stage). >>>>> Req 4 - Network Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined >>>>> as a set of stitched tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for >>>>> tunnels and LSPs are automatically inherited. >>>>> >>>>> Two more detailed comments: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Section 5.2.3. >>>>> It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource >>>>> abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer 1. For transport >>>>> network slicing, resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+ >>>>> (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but have not >>>>> been addressed by ACTN." >>>>> I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis (according to >>>>> some people it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and someone >>>>> believes it's layer 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE technology, >>>>> including MPLS-TE and SR-TE. Building a slice without TE, well, it >>>>> can be done, but how is it possible to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and so on? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2. Section 6.2.3. >>>>> It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay tunnels >>>>> of the VPN service connections. However, the requirement of some >>>>> emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but also has >>>>> quite strict requirement on latency, jitter, etc. Such requirements >>>>> can hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE." >>>>> RSVP-TE is used to reserve the resource along the path meeting the >>>>> required constraints. If such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, >>>>> otherwise no one can. >>>>> >>>>> Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in Table 2. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you >>>>> Daniele >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou >>>>> Berger >>>>> Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08 >>>>> To: netslices@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be >>>>> done on the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to >>>>> build on (and at worst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In >>>>> reading this draft, I really felt like the authors were not familiar >>>>> with the substantive work that has been on TE networks over the >>>>> years, notably: >>>>> >>>>> - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination >>>>> >>>>> There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF >>>>> TE that are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading >>>>> RFC7926 as a good primer on existing RFCs as well as some background >>>>> that predates the current TEAS ACTN work. >>>>> >>>>> - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3 >>>>> >>>>> MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is >>>>> just as important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good >>>>> references for this. On a more specific note, this section is >>>>> missing the intersection of VPNs and RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC >>>>> 6882. Even more notably, the section is missing that TE LSPs can >>>>> support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by RFC2212 (even >>>>> if some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as: >>>>> >>>>> Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) >>>>> bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes it >>>>> possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and >>>>> bandwidth. >>>>> >>>>> - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 >>>>> >>>>> I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is >>>>> concerned with "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation >>>>> (jitter) and assured maximum end-to-end delivery latency." >>>>> (leveraging existing RFCs to the maximum extent possible.) But much >>>>> of the rest of the section contradicts this and I really can't seem >>>>> to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes sense in the >>>>> context of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and >>>>> deterministic latency. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or >>>>> independently. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday >>>>> (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in >>>>> the DetNet WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow >>>>> requirements/capabilities and how to they might be leveraged (and >>>>> support) by DetNet. >>>>> >>>>> - finally, WRT timing >>>>> >>>>> I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF >>>>> could be relevant. >>>>> >>>>> Lou >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Netslices mailing list >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Netslices mailing list >>>>> Netslices@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Netslices mailing list >>>> Netslices@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>> >>> This body part will be downloaded on demand. > From nobody Mon Jul 10 14:11:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94E80127735 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 14:11:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNv5NVpXn968 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 14:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 393581270B4 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 14:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DQU82458; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 21:11:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 22:10:53 +0100 Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.142]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.136]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 14:10:51 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: Daniele Ceccarelli , Lou Berger , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis Thread-Index: AQHS+ObJZiUPJD0Ll021xW1ARCB29KJNfisAgAASDIA= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 21:10:51 +0000 Message-ID: <16F19E79-164D-4661-824F-8AABCF12809A@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.218] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <53AA178FEE58544F96CFAB9B4C460C5B@huawei.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.5963ED6F.0158, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.142, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 4f10c7f5e72f11fdc5ba7980e30d8ddf Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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ICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRzbGljZXMNCiAgICAN CiAgICBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KICAg IE5ldHNsaWNlcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCiAgICBOZXRzbGljZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICBodHRw czovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldHNsaWNlcw0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Mon Jul 10 20:41:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDAD1300BB for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 20:41:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IWxk9uj7hRI7 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 20:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA5B712F4B2 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 20:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DKD03643; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 03:41:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMI404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.142) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 04:41:50 +0100 Received: from DGGEMI509-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.66]) by dggemi404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.142]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 11:41:45 +0800 From: "qiangli (D)" To: Lou Berger , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis Thread-Index: AQHS+ObG34IK+GMdDku/hNPvIQROIaJN49bQ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 03:41:43 +0000 Message-ID: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A56436A@dggemi509-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.163.138] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.596448FF.0063, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.66, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 13310bbdde5f5fba3e9dd7f00f90c563 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 03:41:55 -0000 Hi Lou, Thank you for your comments, please see my reply marked as [Cr] inline. Best regards, Cristina QIANG -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 3:08 AM To: netslices@ietf.org Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis Hi, With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be done on = the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to build on (and at w= orst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In reading this draft, I reall= y felt like the authors were not familiar with the substantive work that ha= s been on TE networks over the years, notably: - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF TE that = are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading RFC7926 as a good = primer on existing RFCs as well as some background that predates the curren= t TEAS ACTN work. [Cr] I have taken a quick look at RFC 7926, If I understand it correctly th= e cross-domain coordination here is addressed through Step 1) abstracting T= E information; Step 2) advertising the abstracted Infor in the abstraction = layer network. I agree with you that there are a lot of related work on the= se two points (e.g., ACTN for abstraction, BGP for advertisement), netslici= ng specific extension on these related work may be enough. As we clarified = in section 8, what is missing is the data model for flat cross-domain coord= ination IMHO. - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3=20 MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is just as= important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good references for this. = On a more specific note, this section is missing the intersection of VPNs a= nd RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC 6882. Even more notably, the section is mis= sing that TE LSPs can support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by = RFC2212 (even if some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as= : Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes it possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and bandwidth. [Cr] Good point. - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is concerned with= "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation (jitter) and assured m= aximum end-to-end delivery latency." (leveraging existing RFCs to the maxim= um extent possible.) But much of the rest of the section contradicts this = and I really can't seem to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes se= nse in the context of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and determi= nistic latency. [Cr] Statement in 2rd paragraph will be modified in the next version. Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or independe= ntly. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in the Det= Net WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow requirements/capabilities = and how to they might be leveraged (and support) by DetNet. - finally, WRT timing I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF could be = relevant. Lou _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Jul 11 00:12:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 756E6131982 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:12:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e8SIxIWLr7ln for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A87613197A for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:12:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DQW30248; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 07:12:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMI402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.135) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:12:30 +0100 Received: from DGGEMI509-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.66]) by dggemi402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.135]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:12:24 +0800 From: "qiangli (D)" To: Daniele Ceccarelli , Lou Berger , "netslices@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis Thread-Index: AQHS+ObG34IK+GMdDku/hNPvIQROIaJMgrYAgAF7IlA= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 07:12:24 +0000 Message-ID: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A5643E5@dggemi509-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.163.138] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.59647A6D.0043, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.66, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 66b3307d9c5d31040b7f4c9c277a601a Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 07:12:50 -0000 Hi Daniele, Thank you for your comments, please see my reply marked as [Cr] inline. Best regards, Cristina QIANG -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Daniele Ce= ccarelli Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 9:06 PM To: Lou Berger; netslices@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysi= s Hi all, while i totally share Lou's point of view I'd like to add some references t= hat might help understanding what is already there and possibly targeting a= better gap analysis. The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped against 4 KEY requirements a= re very valuable but I struggle to see the difference between them and the = ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 service-related requirements and 5 netwo= rk-related requirements (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-r= equirements-05 WG document since Oct 2015). [Cr] It's not difficult to understand that NetSlicing and ACTN have differe= nt requirements if you can accept NetSlicing and ACTN are not the same thin= g. I suggest you jump out of ACTN and try to look at network slicing in an = independent perspective. When it comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly pointed= out at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for Information Exchan= ge between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered Networks) and on the TEAS WG a= nd PCE WG pages you can find a number of documents including framework, abs= traction methods, info model, interfaces, applicability of PCE and YANG mod= els to ACTN, telemetry. In particular I'd like to mention the ACTN VN, whic= h is a construct that sees to address many of the requirements for the netw= ork slicing.=20 [Cr] We will never deny that ACTN could be one of the solutions for NetSlic= ing. My analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm missing). Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like exactly an ACT= N Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I understand to be missing= to the VN is the reachability scope (limited scope vs Internet-wide). [Cr] There are two aspects here --- describe the network resources/function= s & capture the NetSlicing requirements.=20 ACTN does provide a certain degree of resource abstraction, but probably no= t enough. As we stated in section 4.2.2.2, ACTN focuses on Traffic Engineer= ing aspect and some resources such as IP routing table is not covered. Meanwhile, the NetSlicing requirements such as path restriction (e.g., spec= ify some points that must be passed through for security reasons--different= from deterministic routing), high-availability guidelines (e.g., restorati= on within 10ms, 100ms, or 1 second) also need to be considered. Req 2 - Network Slicing Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be one of = the MDSC functionalities, actually the most important. [Cr] Different domain controllers could coordinate through a common platfor= m like the (hierarchical) MDSC; or through a flat way. =20 Req 3 - Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is a targ= et that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources can be dedica= ted to a slice or shared among slices and the computation done with constra= ints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are already available (even if this is at= an earlier stage). [Cr] In additional to VN (TE-tunnel), there are also many other technologie= s such as VPN, SR, FlexE could be extended and reused for this requirement. Req 4 - Network Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined as a set= of stitched tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for tunnels and LSPs = are automatically inherited. [Cr] If you think ACTN is NetSlicing (or VN is network slice instance), I w= ill not oppose your above statement. Then please think about how will you p= rovide OAM if the slice is implemented by SFC technology. NS-OAM is not an = OAM tool related problem, as Section 7.2.1 stated there are lots of technol= ogy-specific tools can be reused in the context of network slicing, no gap = identified so far. The problem of NS-OAM is that, the network slicing has c= ompletely changes the granularity of OAM.=20 Two more detailed comments: 1. Section 5.2.3. It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer 1. For transport network slicing, resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+ (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but have not been addressed by ACTN." I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis (according to some p= eople it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and someone believes it's laye= r 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE technology, including MPLS-TE and SR-T= E. Building a slice without TE, well, it can be done, but how is it possibl= e to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and so on?=20 2. Section 6.2.3. It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay tunnels of the VPN service connections. However, the requirement of some emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but also has quite strict requirement on latency, jitter, etc. Such requirements can hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE." RSVP-TE is used to reserve the resource along the path meeting the required= constraints. If such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, otherwise no one= can. Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in Table 2. Thank you Daniele =20 -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08 To: netslices@ietf.org Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis Hi, With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be done on = the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to build on (and at w= orst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In reading this draft, I reall= y felt like the authors were not familiar with the substantive work that ha= s been on TE networks over the years, notably: - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF TE that = are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading RFC7926 as a good = primer on existing RFCs as well as some background that predates the curren= t TEAS ACTN work. - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3=20 MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is just as= important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good references for this. = On a more specific note, this section is missing the intersection of VPNs a= nd RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC 6882. Even more notably, the section is mis= sing that TE LSPs can support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by = RFC2212 (even if some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as= : Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes it possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and bandwidth. - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is concerned with= "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation (jitter) and assured m= aximum end-to-end delivery latency." (leveraging existing RFCs to the maxim= um extent possible.) But much of the rest of the section contradicts this = and I really can't seem to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes se= nse in the context of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and determi= nistic latency. Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or independe= ntly. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in the Det= Net WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow requirements/capabilities = and how to they might be leveraged (and support) by DetNet. - finally, WRT timing I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF could be = relevant. Lou _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Tue Jul 11 07:39:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2651C129AA0 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 07:39:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KZ02IdySJ5hh for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 14:54:57 -0000 Hi Cristina, My email ended up focusing on ACTN because it's my area of expertise, but m= y incipit was that I totally share Lou's point of view on the fact that the= re are a lot of consolidated solutions in the routing area (among which ACT= N, DetNet, and many other TE initiatives) that seem to have already address= ed the requirements that are being defined against the TE network. Please see my further replies in line. BR/Daniele =20 -----Original Message----- From: qiangli (D) [mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com]=20 Sent: marted=EC 11 luglio 2017 09:12 To: Daniele Ceccarelli ; Lou Berger ; netslices@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysi= s Hi Daniele, Thank you for your comments, please see my reply marked as [Cr] inline. Best regards, Cristina QIANG -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Daniele Ce= ccarelli Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 9:06 PM To: Lou Berger; netslices@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysi= s Hi all, while i totally share Lou's point of view I'd like to add some references t= hat might help understanding what is already there and possibly targeting a= better gap analysis. The 9 requirements shown in table 1 and mapped against 4 KEY requirements a= re very valuable but I struggle to see the difference between them and the = ACTN requirements ,where we have 8 service-related requirements and 5 netwo= rk-related requirements (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-actn-r= equirements-05 WG document since Oct 2015). [Cr] It's not difficult to understand that NetSlicing and ACTN have differe= nt requirements if you can accept NetSlicing and ACTN are not the same thin= g. I suggest you jump out of ACTN and try to look at network slicing in an = independent perspective. [>DC] Thanks, I will try...but I guess I jump too low since from a transpor= t point of view I still see none. When it comes to the solutions for those requirements Lou correctly pointed= out at RFC 7926 (Problem Statement and Architecture for Information Exchan= ge between Interconnected Traffic-Engineered Networks) and on the TEAS WG a= nd PCE WG pages you can find a number of documents including framework, abs= traction methods, info model, interfaces, applicability of PCE and YANG mod= els to ACTN, telemetry. In particular I'd like to mention the ACTN VN, whic= h is a construct that sees to address many of the requirements for the netw= ork slicing.=20 [Cr] We will never deny that ACTN could be one of the solutions for NetSlic= ing. [>DC] But few lines above you said that Netslicing and ACTN have different = requirements... My analysis of the gaps is as follows (please correct what I'm missing). Req 1 - Network Slicing Specification: To me this looks like exactly an ACT= N Virtual Network. In section 4.1 one thing that I understand to be missing= to the VN is the reachability scope (limited scope vs Internet-wide). [Cr] There are two aspects here --- describe the network resources/function= s & capture the NetSlicing requirements.=20 ACTN does provide a certain degree of resource abstraction, but probably no= t enough. As we stated in section 4.2.2.2, ACTN focuses on Traffic Engineer= ing aspect and some resources such as IP routing table is not covered. [>DC] IP routing tables are not addressed by ACTN but they are from e.g. I2= RS. In any case, if you want to guarantee end to end SLA and KPI with routi= ng tables...good luck=20 Meanwhile, the NetSlicing requirements such as path restriction (e.g., spec= ify some points that must be passed through for security reasons--different= from deterministic routing), high-availability guidelines (e.g., restorati= on within 10ms, 100ms, or 1 second) also need to be considered. [>DC] This is just adding path computation constraints and configuration pa= rameters to the existing tools. Req 2 - Network Slicing Cross-Domain Coordination: This seems to be one of = the MDSC functionalities, actually the most important. [Cr] Different domain controllers could coordinate through a common platfor= m like the (hierarchical) MDSC; or through a flat way. [>DC] what do you mean with flat way? Peering? Since hierarchy is already t= here why defining another methods to reach the same? Multiple parallel solu= tions always decrease the chances of interop. =20 Req 3 - Network Slicing Performance Guarantee and Isolation: This is a targ= et that can be reached via a Virtual Network, where resources can be dedica= ted to a slice or shared among slices and the computation done with constra= ints. Extensions for VN Telemetry are already available (even if this is at= an earlier stage). [Cr] In additional to VN (TE-tunnel), there are also many other technologie= s such as VPN, SR, FlexE could be extended and reused for this requirement. [>DC] Please see above. Req 4 - Network Slicing OAM (NS-OAM). Being the VN members defined as a set= of stitched tunnels and LSPs the OAM tools available for tunnels and LSPs = are automatically inherited. [Cr] If you think ACTN is NetSlicing (or VN is network slice instance), I w= ill not oppose your above statement. Then please think about how will you p= rovide OAM if the slice is implemented by SFC technology. NS-OAM is not an = OAM tool related problem, as Section 7.2.1 stated there are lots of technol= ogy-specific tools can be reused in the context of network slicing, no gap = identified so far. The problem of NS-OAM is that, the network slicing has c= ompletely changes the granularity of OAM.=20 [>DC] This is a good point. The obvious solution that comes to my mind is t= o bind the SFCs with the same characteristics to the same VN (there are alr= eady the YANG models available for VPN to VN binding, extending them to inc= lude also the SFC shouldn't be difficult...provided it's a good idea), but = I admit here there is room for improvement.=20 Two more detailed comments: 1. Section 5.2.3. It is said that: " However, ACTN focuses on resource abstraction and management on Layer 2 and Layer 1. For transport network slicing, resources abstraction and management on Layer 3+ (e.g., IP routing table, etc.) may also be necessary but have not been addressed by ACTN." I don't know where MPLS is positioned in your analysis (according to some p= eople it's layer 2, to some others it's 2.5, and someone believes it's laye= r 3), but ACTN covers any kind of TE technology, including MPLS-TE and SR-T= E. Building a slice without TE, well, it can be done, but how is it possibl= e to guarantee KPIs, SLA, and so on?=20 2. Section 6.2.3. It is said that: "RSVP-TE LSPs can be used as the underlay tunnels of the VPN service connections. However, the requirement of some emerging services is not only about traffic bandwidth, but also has quite strict requirement on latency, jitter, etc. Such requirements can hardly be met with existing RSVP-TE." RSVP-TE is used to reserve the resource along the path meeting the required= constraints. If such path exists, RSVP-TE can reserve it, otherwise no one= can. Hence my disagreement with the conclusions in Table 2. Thank you Daniele =20 -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: domenica 9 luglio 2017 21:08 To: netslices@ietf.org Subject: [Netslices] Some comments on draft-qiang-netslices-gap-analysis Hi, With all they "excitement" on slicing I'm sure there is work to be done on = the topic, but I think it would be good for such work to build on (and at w= orst, understand) the IETF technology/RFCs. In reading this draft, I reall= y felt like the authors were not familiar with the substantive work that ha= s been on TE networks over the years, notably: - Section 5.2 cross domain coordination There are many years of work and related RFCs in this area in IETF TE that = are missing from the 'gap analysis' . I suggest reading RFC7926 as a good = primer on existing RFCs as well as some background that predates the curren= t TEAS ACTN work. - WRT Section 6.2.1 and 2.3=20 MPLS-TE solutions are broader than just signaling, i.e., routing is just as= important. RCF7926 has sufficient pointers to good references for this. = On a more specific note, this section is missing the intersection of VPNs a= nd RSVP-TE and L3VPNs, see RFC 6882. Even more notably, the section is mis= sing that TE LSPs can support the Guaranteed Quality of Service defined by = RFC2212 (even if some vendors choose not to implement it), GS is defined as= : Guaranteed service provides firm (mathematically provable) bounds on end-to-end datagram queueing delays. This service makes it possible to provide a service that guarantees both delay and bandwidth. - Also, separately and in the context of Section 6.2.5 I think the 1st paragraph of correctly states that DetNet is concerned with= "low packet loss rates, low packet delay variation (jitter) and assured m= aximum end-to-end delivery latency." (leveraging existing RFCs to the maxim= um extent possible.) But much of the rest of the section contradicts this = and I really can't seem to parse the 2nd paragraph in any way that makes se= nse in the context of detnet or delivering low loss, low jitter and determi= nistic latency. Also, I suggest referencing 802.1TSN in the context or DetNet or independe= ntly. FWIW there is an 802.1 TSN tutorial scheduled for Sunday (1345-1445 in Congress Hall III) and we'll be spending some time in the Det= Net WG session on understanding 802.1 TSN's flow requirements/capabilities = and how to they might be leveraged (and support) by DetNet. - finally, WRT timing I'd think mentioned 1588 and other related time sync work in IETF could be = relevant. Lou _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Jul 13 12:36:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1739713172C; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:36:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3YxEtiRHSp2n; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33F63126C23; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6DJaCIm032103; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:36:12 +0100 Received: from 950129200 ([193.86.203.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6DJaACe032033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:36:11 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Network Slices" Cc: Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:36:09 +0100 Message-ID: <031701d2fc0f$484b2940$d8e17bc0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AdL8D0T18dc3u7n0RNyACMuJDCtq6g== X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23194.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--9.061-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--9.061-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: wF2Lflrcp146DiriUk8230hEDfw/93Buq24ako+ey+UtxWNuz6R5rBmX IviwJw3iQkGIZ88OSCB6ZxU6Cn9jnrvuuksuYzsCu20nCXsgL5YDt/wOShhz/yv6DoqA/hlWviJ qEQasZYJ4Ak8s1QMxAxHYX4fTH8bS2DBKoUnK0AXmAId+2bAQwn0tCKdnhB58vqq8s2MNhPDOG2 o4DtJILxQabjOuIvShC24oEZ6SpSkj80Za3RRg8IEZ37x7ah8fSELrGHmzUI/pxZfY11/JsWNgj E+3/6sTKY4/poj6XZE= Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:36:17 -0000 Hi, We need some volunteers: - Two people to take minutes Minutes do not need to be a verbatim record (there is an audio recording for that). But they should capture the key points made outside of the presentations. Minutes can be taken in your own way and then forwarded to the chairs, but they are most effective if you use the Etherpad tool that is available and allows collaboration. - One person to be jabber scribe RFC 7649 describes this job. It can be pretty light, but is important to allow remote participants to properly play a part in the BoF. Please volunteer now so that we don't waste time at the start of the meeting. Thanks, Adrian From nobody Thu Jul 13 13:21:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B857B129562; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:21:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OjpHyGEL6YDM; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3529412009C; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:21:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=70.194.14.95; From: "Susan Hares" To: , "'Network Slices'" Cc: References: <031701d2fc0f$484b2940$d8e17bc0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <031701d2fc0f$484b2940$d8e17bc0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:15:47 -0400 Message-ID: <003101d2fc14$d1b967a0$752c36e0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQEbe/BTIPA9rKUYwBzYeC8ft5Q/G6PBMU+A X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:21:54 -0000 Adrian: I will volunteer to either take minute taker or jabber scribe. I am familiar with the work - so either works for me. Sue Hares -----Original Message----- From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 3:36 PM To: Network Slices Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF Hi, We need some volunteers: - Two people to take minutes Minutes do not need to be a verbatim record (there is an audio recording for that). But they should capture the key points made outside of the presentations. Minutes can be taken in your own way and then forwarded to the chairs, but they are most effective if you use the Etherpad tool that is available and allows collaboration. - One person to be jabber scribe RFC 7649 describes this job. It can be pretty light, but is important to allow remote participants to properly play a part in the BoF. Please volunteer now so that we don't waste time at the start of the meeting. Thanks, Adrian _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Jul 13 13:35:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB1912EC44; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:35:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XoBtebF-j0zu; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B61912EC17; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6DKZYsw021675; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:35:34 +0100 Received: from 950129200 ([193.86.203.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6DKZUj3021641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:35:33 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Susan Hares'" , "'Network Slices'" Cc: References: <031701d2fc0f$484b2940$d8e17bc0$@olddog.co.uk> <003101d2fc14$d1b967a0$752c36e0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <003101d2fc14$d1b967a0$752c36e0$@ndzh.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:35:30 +0100 Message-ID: <032d01d2fc17$933ea7d0$b9bbf770$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQEbe/BTIPA9rKUYwBzYeC8ft5Q/GwKvk7opo6u6AsA= X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23194.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--15.734-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--15.734-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: u7Yf2n7Ca/3tQ6cSfuLp/OYAh37ZsBDCWuIIvCtFUvzkMnUVL5d0E75C UN5r2gsJTWLw2jvbfpxAiNimMrzmaeVpaYeIXNGsxZQoGMRGhhMZskwWqoib3Ff0A6IQfvBM7Uv tpCQitupDg/MM1pq8GaUMKBx27sg+pUAGdyb9YhLKUCo1O3wV1ZozGrUiC1+/+DugDls6/UNpMQ H2LgDEPOInzQYz6ijP7r01Tu7Mtc7M4lewkSKRh+aoWp3dMEADej8QyNOlLR0uz3p2UVYo0l721 f1Z1L9Kj1mbw6/tKms8MXho6UtjB0qXm4MPqTr2ngIgpj8eDcC063Wh9WVqgqbyPFGTn+O41GcR AJRT6POOhzOa6g8KrTqSo9LOIp0idVvHkKm0gLTh8bpXfY820zQMO7vmLKPRrfLMkUR+cLk= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:35:38 -0000 Thanks Sue, You're star at minute taking, so I am not about to turn that down! Another helper would still be good. Thanks, Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] > Sent: 13 July 2017 21:16 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Network Slices' > Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF > > Adrian: > > I will volunteer to either take minute taker or jabber scribe. I am > familiar with the work - so either works for me. > > Sue Hares > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian > Farrel > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 3:36 PM > To: Network Slices > Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF > > Hi, > > We need some volunteers: > > - Two people to take minutes > Minutes do not need to be a verbatim record (there is an audio recording > for that). > But they should capture the key points made outside of the presentations. > Minutes can be taken in your own way and then forwarded to the chairs, > but they > are most effective if you use the Etherpad tool that is available and > allows collaboration. > > - One person to be jabber scribe > RFC 7649 describes this job. > It can be pretty light, but is important to allow remote participants to > properly play > a part in the BoF. > > Please volunteer now so that we don't waste time at the start of the > meeting. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Thu Jul 13 14:08:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D497112EA53; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:08:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l7X7Fdy-8G71; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 146FA129B5B; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DRB41298; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:08:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:08:52 +0100 Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.142]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.186]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:08:47 -0700 From: "Kiran.Makhijani" To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "'Susan Hares'" , "'Network Slices'" CC: "netslicing-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF Thread-Index: AdL8D0T18dc3u7n0RNyACMuJDCtq6gAQDeiAAACwSAD//5PsgA== Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:08:47 +0000 Message-ID: <15200650-1DA8-4B1F-A26D-564F66DEED3D@huawei.com> References: <031701d2fc0f$484b2940$d8e17bc0$@olddog.co.uk> <003101d2fc14$d1b967a0$752c36e0$@ndzh.com> <032d01d2fc17$933ea7d0$b9bbf770$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <032d01d2fc17$933ea7d0$b9bbf770$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.247.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.5967E166.020C, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.142, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: c1cd7bfdf0d1ab976668868294bb5ab9 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:08:59 -0000 Q291bnQgbWUgaW4gYXMgYSBiYWNrdXAsIGluIGNhc2UgeW91IGNhbuKAmXQgZmluZCBhIHNlY29u ZCB2b2x1bnRlZXIuDQotS2lyYW4NCg0KT24gNy8xMy8xNywgMTozNSBQTSwgIk5ldHNsaWNlcyBv biBiZWhhbGYgb2YgQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJlbCIgPG5ldHNsaWNlcy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIG9u IGJlaGFsZiBvZiBhZHJpYW5Ab2xkZG9nLmNvLnVrPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIFRoYW5rcyBTdWUs DQogICAgDQogICAgWW91J3JlIHN0YXIgYXQgbWludXRlIHRha2luZywgc28gSSBhbSBub3QgYWJv dXQgdG8gdHVybiB0aGF0IGRvd24hDQogICAgDQogICAgQW5vdGhlciBoZWxwZXIgd291bGQgc3Rp bGwgYmUgZ29vZC4NCiAgICANCiAgICBUaGFua3MsDQogICAgQWRyaWFuDQogICAgDQogICAgPiAt LS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KICAgID4gRnJvbTogU3VzYW4gSGFyZXMgW21haWx0 bzpzaGFyZXNAbmR6aC5jb21dDQogICAgPiBTZW50OiAxMyBKdWx5IDIwMTcgMjE6MTYNCiAgICA+ IFRvOiBhZHJpYW5Ab2xkZG9nLmNvLnVrOyAnTmV0d29yayBTbGljZXMnDQogICAgPiBDYzogbmV0 c2xpY2luZy1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICA+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBbTmV0c2xpY2VzXSBM b29raW5nIGZvciB2b2x1bnRlZXJzIGZvciB0aGUgTmV0c2xpY2luZyBCb0YNCiAgICA+IA0KICAg ID4gQWRyaWFuOg0KICAgID4gDQogICAgPiBJIHdpbGwgdm9sdW50ZWVyIHRvIGVpdGhlciB0YWtl IG1pbnV0ZSB0YWtlciBvciBqYWJiZXIgc2NyaWJlLiAgIEkgYW0NCiAgICA+IGZhbWlsaWFyIHdp dGggdGhlIHdvcmsgLSBzbyBlaXRoZXIgd29ya3MgZm9yIG1lLg0KICAgID4gDQogICAgPiBTdWUg SGFyZXMNCiAgICA+IA0KICAgID4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCiAgICA+IEZy b206IE5ldHNsaWNlcyBbbWFpbHRvOm5ldHNsaWNlcy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhh bGYgT2YgQWRyaWFuDQogICAgPiBGYXJyZWwNCiAgICA+IFNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBKdWx5IDEz LCAyMDE3IDM6MzYgUE0NCiAgICA+IFRvOiBOZXR3b3JrIFNsaWNlcw0KICAgID4gQ2M6IG5ldHNs aWNpbmctY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbTmV0c2xpY2VzXSBMb29raW5n IGZvciB2b2x1bnRlZXJzIGZvciB0aGUgTmV0c2xpY2luZyBCb0YNCiAgICA+IA0KICAgID4gSGks DQogICAgPiANCiAgICA+IFdlIG5lZWQgc29tZSB2b2x1bnRlZXJzOg0KICAgID4gDQogICAgPiAt IFR3byBwZW9wbGUgdG8gdGFrZSBtaW51dGVzDQogICAgPiAgICBNaW51dGVzIGRvIG5vdCBuZWVk IHRvIGJlIGEgdmVyYmF0aW0gcmVjb3JkICh0aGVyZSBpcyBhbiBhdWRpbyByZWNvcmRpbmcNCiAg ICA+IGZvciB0aGF0KS4NCiAgICA+ICAgIEJ1dCB0aGV5IHNob3VsZCBjYXB0dXJlIHRoZSBrZXkg cG9pbnRzIG1hZGUgb3V0c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgcHJlc2VudGF0aW9ucy4NCiAgICA+ICAgIE1pbnV0 ZXMgY2FuIGJlIHRha2VuIGluIHlvdXIgb3duIHdheSBhbmQgdGhlbiBmb3J3YXJkZWQgdG8gdGhl IGNoYWlycywNCiAgICA+IGJ1dCB0aGV5DQogICAgPiAgICBhcmUgbW9zdCBlZmZlY3RpdmUgaWYg eW91IHVzZSB0aGUgRXRoZXJwYWQgdG9vbCB0aGF0IGlzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhbmQNCiAgICA+IGFs bG93cyBjb2xsYWJvcmF0aW9uLg0KICAgID4gDQogICAgPiAtIE9uZSBwZXJzb24gdG8gYmUgamFi YmVyIHNjcmliZQ0KICAgID4gICAgUkZDIDc2NDkgZGVzY3JpYmVzIHRoaXMgam9iLg0KICAgID4g ICAgSXQgY2FuIGJlIHByZXR0eSBsaWdodCwgYnV0IGlzIGltcG9ydGFudCB0byBhbGxvdyByZW1v dGUgcGFydGljaXBhbnRzIHRvDQogICAgPiBwcm9wZXJseSBwbGF5DQogICAgPiAgICBhIHBhcnQg aW4gdGhlIEJvRi4NCiAgICA+IA0KICAgID4gUGxlYXNlIHZvbHVudGVlciBub3cgc28gdGhhdCB3 ZSBkb24ndCB3YXN0ZSB0aW1lIGF0IHRoZSBzdGFydCBvZiB0aGUNCiAgICA+IG1lZXRpbmcuDQog ICAgPiANCiAgICA+IFRoYW5rcywNCiAgICA+IEFkcmlhbg0KICAgID4gDQogICAgPiBfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KICAgID4gTmV0c2xpY2Vz IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgID4gTmV0c2xpY2VzQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgPiBodHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldHNsaWNlcw0KICAgIA0KICAgIF9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgTmV0c2xpY2VzIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIE5ldHNsaWNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYu b3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0c2xpY2VzDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Jul 14 00:28:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD43127867; 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Fri, 14 Jul 2017 08:28:08 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Kiran.Makhijani'" , "'Susan Hares'" , "'Network Slices'" Cc: References: <031701d2fc0f$484b2940$d8e17bc0$@olddog.co.uk> <003101d2fc14$d1b967a0$752c36e0$@ndzh.com> <032d01d2fc17$933ea7d0$b9bbf770$@olddog.co.uk> <15200650-1DA8-4B1F-A26D-564F66DEED3D@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <15200650-1DA8-4B1F-A26D-564F66DEED3D@huawei.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 08:28:06 +0100 Message-ID: <03a801d2fc72$bd72e2e0$3858a8a0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQEbe/BTIPA9rKUYwBzYeC8ft5Q/GwKvk7opAfJGNIYCZfEXGqOJrJsA X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23194.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--23.290-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--23.290-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: +f/wAVSGjujtQ6cSfuLp/OYAh37ZsBDCt3aeg7g/usAutoY2UtFqGBkp fhGhw1MHESiADfxskloIjTclREIPfk1fsoLovwOeJrUxoq6hvw9a4gi8K0VS/OQydRUvl3QTS8o hQpPo+9mGoJHYflzd4K2Su9bQ6WlYYqmUd3tOErVIRA38P/dwbqtuGpKPnsvlLcVjbs+keawZly L4sCcN4kJBiGfPDkggI3wO6HCiiKfTzxHs5/DnJy0x8J2DopENZ9ozWDQfgdE4WUsA5A23Iapo2 uqfbVZ5G+t94Wvr+3WshLmbuXLXrGFqPXSLpNdAQr2qXCJMSV91k+gP1XamtJsoi2XrUn/Jsuf7 RWbvUtx88Plw9Yn01wtuKBGekqUpPjKoPgsq7cA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 07:28:26 -0000 Thanks Kiran! Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Kiran.Makhijani [mailto:Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com] > Sent: 13 July 2017 22:09 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Susan Hares'; 'Network Slices' > Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF >=20 > Count me in as a backup, in case you can=E2=80=99t find a second = volunteer. > -Kiran >=20 > On 7/13/17, 1:35 PM, "Netslices on behalf of Adrian Farrel" = bounces@ietf.org on behalf of adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: >=20 > Thanks Sue, >=20 > You're star at minute taking, so I am not about to turn that down! >=20 > Another helper would still be good. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] > > Sent: 13 July 2017 21:16 > > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Network Slices' > > Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the = Netslicing BoF > > > > Adrian: > > > > I will volunteer to either take minute taker or jabber scribe. = I am > > familiar with the work - so either works for me. > > > > Sue Hares > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Adrian > > Farrel > > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 3:36 PM > > To: Network Slices > > Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org > > Subject: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing = BoF > > > > Hi, > > > > We need some volunteers: > > > > - Two people to take minutes > > Minutes do not need to be a verbatim record (there is an = audio recording > > for that). > > But they should capture the key points made outside of the = presentations. > > Minutes can be taken in your own way and then forwarded to = the chairs, > > but they > > are most effective if you use the Etherpad tool that is = available and > > allows collaboration. > > > > - One person to be jabber scribe > > RFC 7649 describes this job. > > It can be pretty light, but is important to allow remote = participants to > > properly play > > a part in the BoF. > > > > Please volunteer now so that we don't waste time at the start of = the > > meeting. > > > > Thanks, > > Adrian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >=20 From nobody Fri Jul 14 05:16:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22CF2131B6B; 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h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=KfBCVmEDowwwHZwK74ZvgoM8fbsd1vHdy43wJTgu67BDWbdVEUXdlsUjMK+B2FJ/M igZ2JZyAE9lFMNbpWX34vZ5IosBFY4gDNjCeuBQ8hAzywyPQ0Z4j/SeNyz/fb9LBDr N98J8lWNlKOVHKU8dPtmUMeXs30HpD9amLA1y8cA= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.255.148.181; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Thomas Nadeau In-Reply-To: <03a801d2fc72$bd72e2e0$3858a8a0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 08:16:45 -0400 Cc: "Kiran.Makhijani" , Susan Hares , Network Slices , netslicing-chairs@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6C436CAF-BC6F-4F12-85FB-4D7950FEAA60@lucidvision.com> References: <031701d2fc0f$484b2940$d8e17bc0$@olddog.co.uk> <003101d2fc14$d1b967a0$752c36e0$@ndzh.com> <032d01d2fc17$933ea7d0$b9bbf770$@olddog.co.uk> <15200650-1DA8-4B1F-A26D-564F66DEED3D@huawei.com> <03a801d2fc72$bd72e2e0$3858a8a0$@olddog.co.uk> To: Farrel Adrian X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Authenticated-User: tnadeau@lucidvision.com X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-Encryption: SSL encrypted X-MyRbl: Color=Yellow Age=0 Spam=0 Notspam=3 Stars=0 Good=0 Friend=0 Surbl=0 Catch=0 r=0 ip=50.255.148.181 X-IP-stats: Notspam Incoming Last 0, First 791, in=6128, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=50.255.148.181 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:16:52 -0000 Adrian, Will there be remote access for the BoF? =E2=80=94Tom > On Jul 14, 2017:3:28 AM, at 3:28 AM, Adrian Farrel = wrote: >=20 > Thanks Kiran! >=20 > Adrian >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kiran.Makhijani [mailto:Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com] >> Sent: 13 July 2017 22:09 >> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Susan Hares'; 'Network Slices' >> Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing = BoF >>=20 >> Count me in as a backup, in case you can=E2=80=99t find a second = volunteer. >> -Kiran >>=20 >> On 7/13/17, 1:35 PM, "Netslices on behalf of Adrian Farrel" = > bounces@ietf.org on behalf of adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: >>=20 >> Thanks Sue, >>=20 >> You're star at minute taking, so I am not about to turn that down! >>=20 >> Another helper would still be good. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Adrian >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] >>> Sent: 13 July 2017 21:16 >>> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Network Slices' >>> Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org >>> Subject: RE: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing = BoF >>>=20 >>> Adrian: >>>=20 >>> I will volunteer to either take minute taker or jabber scribe. I = am >>> familiar with the work - so either works for me. >>>=20 >>> Sue Hares >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Adrian >>> Farrel >>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 3:36 PM >>> To: Network Slices >>> Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org >>> Subject: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> We need some volunteers: >>>=20 >>> - Two people to take minutes >>> Minutes do not need to be a verbatim record (there is an audio = recording >>> for that). >>> But they should capture the key points made outside of the = presentations. >>> Minutes can be taken in your own way and then forwarded to the = chairs, >>> but they >>> are most effective if you use the Etherpad tool that is available = and >>> allows collaboration. >>>=20 >>> - One person to be jabber scribe >>> RFC 7649 describes this job. >>> It can be pretty light, but is important to allow remote = participants to >>> properly play >>> a part in the BoF. >>>=20 >>> Please volunteer now so that we don't waste time at the start of the >>> meeting. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netslices mailing list >>> Netslices@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netslices mailing list > Netslices@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices From nobody Fri Jul 14 05:41:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D7A13012B; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:24:10 -0000 Hi, nowadays you can follow *all* IETF sessions remotely through Meetecho. We will not have remote *presenters* this time, though. Cheers, Gonzalo On 14/07/2017 3:16 PM, Thomas Nadeau wrote: > > Adrian, > > Will there be remote access for the BoF? > > —Tom > > >> On Jul 14, 2017:3:28 AM, at 3:28 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> >> Thanks Kiran! >> >> Adrian >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kiran.Makhijani [mailto:Kiran.Makhijani@huawei.com] >>> Sent: 13 July 2017 22:09 >>> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Susan Hares'; 'Network Slices' >>> Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF >>> >>> Count me in as a backup, in case you can’t find a second volunteer. >>> -Kiran >>> >>> On 7/13/17, 1:35 PM, "Netslices on behalf of Adrian Farrel" >> bounces@ietf.org on behalf of adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Sue, >>> >>> You're star at minute taking, so I am not about to turn that down! >>> >>> Another helper would still be good. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] >>>> Sent: 13 July 2017 21:16 >>>> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Network Slices' >>>> Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF >>>> >>>> Adrian: >>>> >>>> I will volunteer to either take minute taker or jabber scribe. I am >>>> familiar with the work - so either works for me. >>>> >>>> Sue Hares >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian >>>> Farrel >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 3:36 PM >>>> To: Network Slices >>>> Cc: netslicing-chairs@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> We need some volunteers: >>>> >>>> - Two people to take minutes >>>> Minutes do not need to be a verbatim record (there is an audio recording >>>> for that). >>>> But they should capture the key points made outside of the presentations. >>>> Minutes can be taken in your own way and then forwarded to the chairs, >>>> but they >>>> are most effective if you use the Etherpad tool that is available and >>>> allows collaboration. >>>> >>>> - One person to be jabber scribe >>>> RFC 7649 describes this job. >>>> It can be pretty light, but is important to allow remote participants to >>>> properly play >>>> a part in the BoF. >>>> >>>> Please volunteer now so that we don't waste time at the start of the >>>> meeting. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Adrian >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Netslices mailing list >>>> Netslices@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netslices mailing list >>> Netslices@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netslices mailing list >> Netslices@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > From nobody Fri Jul 14 08:52:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2AD6128961; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 08:52:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FI5avejovnRV; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 08:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39E101201F2; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 08:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6EFqAJv009461; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 16:52:11 +0100 Received: from 950129200 ([193.86.203.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6EFq8Lj009412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 14 Jul 2017 16:52:10 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" , "'Thomas Nadeau'" Cc: "'Kiran.Makhijani'" , "'Susan Hares'" , "'Network Slices'" , References: <031701d2fc0f$484b2940$d8e17bc0$@olddog.co.uk> <003101d2fc14$d1b967a0$752c36e0$@ndzh.com> <032d01d2fc17$933ea7d0$b9bbf770$@olddog.co.uk> <15200650-1DA8-4B1F-A26D-564F66DEED3D@huawei.com> <03a801d2fc72$bd72e2e0$3858a8a0$@olddog.co.uk> <6C436CAF-BC6F-4F12-85FB-4D7950FEAA60@lucidvision.com> <1ec935b6-ded3-1a52-5dd8-7e13bd86bbc2@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <1ec935b6-ded3-1a52-5dd8-7e13bd86bbc2@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 16:52:07 +0100 Message-ID: <046e01d2fcb9$26d46a10$747d3e30$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQEbe/BTIPA9rKUYwBzYeC8ft5Q/GwKvk7opAfJGNIYCZfEXGgG9psylAYNu0UICd+mmvKNccy5w X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23194.007 X-TM-AS-Result: No--6.451-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--6.451-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: lORh06tOiKjtQ6cSfuLp/PHkpkyUphL90xb25/X+gtooJc1AQPV/RnER bS7OZpED69RbzlHiTFpjf9vODtjLydh8848Kmd8CmlaAItiONP2K6IJmwLQESJsoi2XrUn/JxbG vmM9nj5NQSFbL1bvQAXnN0DN7HnFmJ+npxJ3lcYThxg2HT+WqbqcagsgFOh+wKfav4nhebvWz3o /BI4wCv5RMZUCEHkRt Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] Looking for volunteers for the Netslicing BoF X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 15:52:23 -0000 > nowadays you can follow *all* IETF sessions remotely through Meetecho. > We will not have remote *presenters* this time, though. And, to be clear, that means you can watch audio and listen to the video = (-; And, should the whim take you and assuming there is time, you can join = the remote mic line and speak. A > > Adrian, > > > > Will there be remote access for the BoF? 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FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoNoRecords; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB5PR07MB139928FDDECF4F057EBC2E4B9BA00DB5PR07MB1399eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia-bell-labs.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Jul 2017 07:52:50.0343 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB5PR07MB1605 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:52:55 -0000 --_000_DB5PR07MB139928FDDECF4F057EBC2E4B9BA00DB5PR07MB1399eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Liang Sorry about late response. I have been out of office few past weeks. Even if I am not too particular about the terminology we still need to hav= e a common understanding how the various concepts relate especially at the= boarders of the domains across different SDOs. This is important to identi= fy caps and ensure interoperability. Best regards Hannu From: GENG Liang [mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2017 1:26 PM To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) ; ne= tslices@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slic= ing-management-00.txt Hi Hannu, I like the idea of adding ETSI MANO to the picture and distinguish PNF and = VNF since the Orchestration of these different types of resources in a netw= ork slice instance may be very different. We can discuss further to see how= the Framwork document address your concerns However, the SA5 terms NSMF (which is E2E orchestration in NS-Framework) an= d NSSMF (which is domain orchestration in NS-Framework) may need further di= scussion. I am slightly worried about directly using terms defined in other= SDOs because you never know what they possibly mean tomorrow. Best wishes Liang ________________________________ Liang GENG China Mobile Research Institute From: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) Date: 2017-07-04 23:56 To: netslices@ietf.org Subject: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-= management-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Hannu Flinck and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-flinck-slicing-management Revision: 00 Title: Network Slicing Management and Orchestration Document date: 2017-07-03 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 10 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-flinck-slicing-m= anagement-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-flinck-slicing-manag= ement/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-flinck-slicing-management= -00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-flinck-slicing-= management-00 Abstract: Network Slicing is worked in multiple SDOs from different view points. As network slicing is an end-to-end topic, this draft proposes that network slices architecture [NS-Framework] aligns with the work done in NGMN, 3GPP and ETSI with relation to management and orchestration. The key aspect that this draft makes is the rational for role and need for Network Slice Management Function (NSMF) entity that operates above Network Virtualization Function Orchestrator and PNFs Management Functions. NSMF needs to support different abstractions of resources and to offer access to different management entities. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices --_000_DB5PR07MB139928FDDECF4F057EBC2E4B9BA00DB5PR07MB1399eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Lia= ng

 

Sorry about late response. I have been out of office few past weeks.<= o:p>

 

Even if I am  not too particular about the terminology we still = need to have a common understanding how the various concepts relate especia= lly at  the boarders of the domains across different SDOs. This is important to identify caps and ensure interoperabi= lity.

 

Best regards

Hannu   

 

 

From: = GENG Liang [mailto:liang.geng@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2017 1:26 PM
To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) <hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-lab= s.com>; netslices@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flin= ck-slicing-management-00.txt

 

Hi Hannu,

 

I like the idea of adding ETSI MANO to t= he picture and distinguish PNF and VNF since the Orchestration of these dif= ferent types of resources in a network slice instance may be very different. We can discuss further to see how the Framwork docu= ment address your concerns

 

However, the SA5 terms NSMF (which is E2= E orchestration in NS-Framework) and = NSSMF (which is domain orchestration in NS-Framework) may need further discussion. I am slightly worried about directly using te= rms defined in other SDOs because you never know what they possibly mean to= morrow.

 

Best wishes

Liang

 

 

Liang GENG

China Mobile Research Institute

 

Date: 2017-07-04 23:56

Subject:<= /span> [Netslices] FW: New Version Notification for draft-flinck-slicing-management-00.txt

 

 

A new version of I-D, draft-flinck-slici= ng-management-00.txt

has been successfully submitted by Hannu= Flinck and posted to the

IETF repository.

 

Name: draft-flinck-slicing-management

Revision: 00

Title: Network Slicing Management and Or= chestration

Document date: 2017-07-03

Group: Individual Submission<= /span>

Pages: 10

 

 

Abstract:

   Network Slicing is worked i= n multiple SDOs from different view

   points.  As network sl= icing is an end-to-end topic, this draft

   proposes that network slice= s architecture [NS-Framework] aligns with

   the work done in NGMN, 3GPP= and ETSI with relation to management and

   orchestration.  The ke= y aspect that this draft makes is the rational

   for role and need for Netwo= rk Slice Management Function (NSMF) entity

   that operates above Network= Virtualization Function Orchestrator and

   PNFs Management Functions.&= nbsp; NSMF needs to support different

   abstractions of resources a= nd to offer access to different management

   entities.=

 

      &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           

 

 

Please note that it may take a couple of= minutes from the time of submission

until the htmlized version and diff are = available at tools.ietf.org.

 

The IETF Secretariat

 

________________________________________= _______

Netslices mailing list=

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--_000_DB5PR07MB13997CACE3DB51F5DEE762539BA00DB5PR07MB1399eurp_-- From nobody Mon Jul 17 09:17:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A378131C71 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rs4U6JPr3_WR for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:17:03 -0000 Thanks to all who contributed to the BoF for clear and timely work. I thought the meeting had a fairy tale ending [1] We will post draft minutes SOON [2] and leave it to the AD to work out what comes next. Adrian [1] https://www.feedaread.com/profiles/8604/ [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-soon/ From nobody Tue Jul 18 03:11:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6ED131A67 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 03:11:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2jjLgd851ODD for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 03:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db5eur01on0095.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.2.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ECEC131DB8 for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:11:08 -0000 18th July 2017 Hi All Thank you for your participation in yesterday NetSlicing BoF. In order to move forward the BoF proponents (25) and other willing = volunteers to contribute to the NetSlicing work at IETF who are present = in Prague are kindly invited meet initially on Thursday 20th July 2017 = morning to discuss a reduce scope for near future standardisation work, = probably including: =E2=80=A2 slice-oriented management & orchestration =20 =E2=80=A2 unified data-set regarding to slicing abstraction from = lower-layer infrastructure (i.e. either per use case or abstraction = across some lower-layer infrastructures)=20 =E2=80=A2 unified templates & system models 'Attendee Sign-Up Meeting Room=E2=80=99 was set-up for this meeting on = Thursday 20th July morning 8:00am - 9:00am. The meeting room is Istanbul = room on the Lobby Level. See you there. 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boundary="_000_AM4PR0701MB20814FFF6E28BE020D7CB60285A10AM4PR0701MB2081_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jul 2017 19:43:14.8450 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR0701MB1937 Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] 3GPP Requirements on Network Slicing X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:43:20 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0701MB20814FFF6E28BE020D7CB60285A10AM4PR0701MB2081_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I have looked at the slides 3GPP Network Slicing that were presented by the= #GPP CT chairman (slides-99-netslicing-georg-mayer-3gpp-network-slicing-04= ), which say that 3GPP does not have at the m= oment dedicated requirements for any kind of IETF protocol or activity rela= ted to nw-slicing. This correctly describes the current situation in CT and RAN, but as mentio= ned in my earlier mail, I want to re-clarify that SA5 intends to provide li= nk requirements to the transport network management system. I think the IET= F may see soon a request for collaboration with 3GPP on this topic. Please = see http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_sa/WG5_TM/TSGS5_111_Bis/Docs/S5A-170313.zip "SA5 currently understands that the 3GPP management system will manage only= the CN part and RAN part of the network slice instances based on the netwo= rk slice description in 3GPP SA1. Regarding the TN part supporting connecti= vity within and between CN and RAN parts, 3GPP management system will provi= de link requirements (e.g. topology, QOS parameters) to the TN management s= ystem. SA5 will identify relevant standard groups and industry fora, and tr= igger the cooperation discussion addressing the TN management." Best regards, Nurit --_000_AM4PR0701MB20814FFF6E28BE020D7CB60285A10AM4PR0701MB2081_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

I have l= ooked at the slides 3GPP Network Slicing that were presented by the #GPP CT= chairman (slides-99-netslicing-ge= org-mayer-3gpp-network-slicing-04), which say that 3GPP does not have at the moment dedicated requirements for= any kind of IETF protocol or activity related to nw-slicing.

This cor= rectly describes the current situation in CT and RAN, but as mentioned in m= y earlier mail, I want to re-clarify that SA5 intends to provide link requirements to the transport network manage= ment system. I think the IETF may see soon a request for collaboration with 3GPP on = this topic. Please see http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_sa/WG= 5_TM/TSGS5_111_Bis/Docs/S5A-170313.zip

“SA5 currently understands= that the 3GPP management system will manage only the CN part and RAN part = of the network slice instances based on the network slice description in 3G= PP SA1. Regarding the TN part supporting connectivity within and between CN and RAN parts, 3GPP management system w= ill provide link requirements (e.g. topology, QOS parameters) to the TN man= agement system. SA5 will identify relevant standard groups and industry for= a, and trigger the cooperation discussion addressing the TN management.”

Best reg= ards,

Nurit

--_000_AM4PR0701MB20814FFF6E28BE020D7CB60285A10AM4PR0701MB2081_-- From nobody Thu Jul 20 15:46:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A754512714F for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:46:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xgY3swdlPrlV for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (asmtp2.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96250126B7F for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6KMk72w017679; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:46:07 +0100 Received: from 950129200 ([193.86.203.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6KMk5GF017667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:46:06 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Network Slices" Cc: , , "Warren Kumari" Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:46:02 +0100 Message-ID: <0d4c01d301a9$f81d58d0$e8580a70$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdMBqeC4ApqygakdTJigSuHZiAMKIg== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23208.003 X-TM-AS-Result: No--0.989-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--0.989-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: /Byc/04iPni0YC3nbjbPMafXIl6Cf6Vr8GRhP/nTHNao+b+yOP0oGDrN lG6f1BSkfD82wgOXLHqRk6XtYogiarQ/aqQZTRfKSpbJCVMan5Y20PITYKXjDb6hIaKfExp0J0R PnyOnrZLrAMPpmejl/gCoXT8c9JTtcDm4552ua9LcVr+oje50A4gKfYcdRCk8G0ARHJTmFA603G 818THtr+M3DpqS7wzrIZtiga+c0r/oer1EJMvG+yy0eZxd5bV4FVIZbguNbjQVic9Khd8bxySFg dUD+vyT Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] Netslices draft minutes posted X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 22:46:16 -0000 https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/minutes/minutes-99-netslicing-00.txt Comments welcome. (Minutes re what you said, not what you wish you said ;-) Many thanks to the minute takers: Sue, Kiran, and Ignas. Adrian From nobody Sun Jul 23 14:00:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 529F412EC36 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:00:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dQnnRKu79My2 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01on0120.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.1.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCEF812785F for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2017 21:00:33 -0000 23rd July 2017 Hi All=20 Thank you for your participation in the NetSlicing BoF of Monday 17th = July 2017 at IETF99 in Prague. In order to move forward the willing volunteers who would like to = contribute to the NetSlicing work for IETF100 are kindly invited to the = next NetSlicing proponents call scheduled for Wednesday 26th July 2017 = at 14:00 UK time. Agenda would include a review of the work planed for IETF100 which may = include a number of deliverables (drafts): =E2=80=A2 An interface (YANG Data Model) from the management and = orchestration system towards the transport part (i.e., new IPV6 based = protocol to enable slicing in the transport part: ACTN, DETNET, Segment = Routing =E2=80=A6.) =E2=80=A2 Description of an enhanced network underlay(s) which would be = of utility for a use case or a group of use cases (i.e. guarantees for = isolation; part of VPN++ as required) and interfacing towards the = management and orchestration system.=20 =E2=80=A2 Resource specification (abstract way of representing the = transport) and an interface towards the management and orchestration = system. =E2=80=A2 NS Management & Orchestration: - Protocol based E2E orchestration /coordination enabling = composition/decomposition of net slices - Protocol based monitoring & discovery of net slicing - Common net slicing template [i.e. 1. description of Service Instance = Components; 2. description of Network Functions Instance Components; 3. = description of connectivity, compute, storage resources; 4. description = of Slice Element Manager and Capability exposure component] If interested please send me (a.galis@ucl.ac.uk) a message for inclusion = in the Net Slicing call list for the next period (i.e. July - November = 2017) Thank you in advance Best Regards Alex From nobody Thu Jul 27 10:32:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6358E131CFE for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:32:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nDv3Kstjm0Pm for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45C49132065 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:32:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1851; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1501176720; x=1502386320; h=subject:references:from:to:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NiCW44kwYkEW1TkDYVitwibJutfrw0XwIuVfnzzRfZA=; b=H1ddlXUs5JMRyhPOmVTUkKK9xdC/DX8fEvfZwKaLHl4ZFUm6DfF1lUff +1zsBYuNdNUhNJMUQ7T9FkUyeQv7Z7jAJ4KhuGAZa6F4LVxNgiom61Cd2 6TVnm10fjNmxnieCm+F/rtmhelihTsgu2aioeiGYpWJprW1WdPfW0f4mX 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BfBADZInpZ/xbLJq1dHAEBBAEBCgEBh?= =?us-ascii?q?SuPJ6Z4DoIEhUcChCUXAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFGQYjFVElAiYCAlcTCAEBiiuwK4I?= =?us-ascii?q?mizsBAQEHAiaBC4Idg02BYSuHNoECgkeCYQEEn2aUJYszhwmNDYhlIAE2gQoyI?= =?us-ascii?q?QgcFYVkF4FpPoo2AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,421,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="654562091" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 27 Jul 2017 17:31:56 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.37] (ams-bclaise-nitro4.cisco.com [10.55.221.37]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6RHVtwo008997 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 17:31:56 GMT References: <1a49dbe4-bd99-ef70-656b-93075775131e@cisco.com> From: Benoit Claise To: NetSlices@ietf.org X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <1a49dbe4-bd99-ef70-656b-93075775131e@cisco.com> Message-ID: <51e1fe1b-0eb0-3df8-ac08-bbf16059cf37@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:31:56 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1a49dbe4-bd99-ef70-656b-93075775131e@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 17:32:03 -0000 Dear all, Thanks for all who contributed to the netslicing BoF: the document authors, the presenters, the participants, and the chairs. During this week, next to BoF itself, I've had multiple opportunities to speak about netslicing, with some BoF proponents, with the IAB shepherds, and with the IESG/IAB on Friday afternoon, etc. This helped me understanding the different points of views and clarified some aspects. It's true that the network slicing has got a specific meaning in the context of 5G, but, as Georg (as liaison) stressed: there are no 3GPP requirements for the IETF at this point in time. Nevertheless, there are parts that the IETF should look at. And there are parts of the network slicing concept that are already being worked on at the IETF. ACTN comes to mind, but also DETNET, and I heard of VPN+. The individual work in WGs should continue and potentially be extended. Note that I carefully used the "network slicing concept" term in the previous sentence. As one important next step, it would nice to focus on a common "network slicing" definition, at least its meaning for the IETF. As mentioned during the BoF, this is not the IETF role to define a complete orchestrator, controller, or NMS/OSS. This should be developed by an opensource project. However, what would be a practical next step is to specify a kind of network slicing template, with the envisioned required parameters. From there, we could determine what's missing when we try to map it to a specific (IETF) technologies. Let me make up an (hopefully simple) example: I would like to have a network slice with a guaranteed bandwidth b, end-to-end jitter j, packet loss p, end-to-end max delay d. Do we even those abilities in the underlying technologies? Regards, Benoit (as the BoF responsible AD) From nobody Thu Jul 27 10:47:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EE3131C89 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:47:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9phLgU4aSEA9 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x235.google.com (mail-pf0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 605ED131D1A for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x235.google.com with SMTP id z129so46746601pfb.3 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:47:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:thread-topic :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OgPT13u9el0ahiKdlcfp1NSLJLAkmh9jbZBQvWP0mdM=; b=uxOk3KgeslblLkN5Aeh1xFB+w8jmMvggEffBsVs5+JqVyYRmhaGLO/nXaEwRh4eX12 W7M+jbpUoLXWpGHFZhypJOlaALGkdhKqJw6wvzu91aMroKk/JErT13pEe0mM+zS0l/Mw 4mPPy5aHnkAsU2WFnW51n9wk7yIevvSMQEHMrHm36+dPCcr137Lgy0xpezwnMY1UoEgv a8tkW466+6HdlX3noFHCYfz1U8FuQKlKJXBkdn+/jVjaKmAUoWunnrl+FR4/CfmKbyiK eK3vL/AgleUMUXHMOPnshlow3iDnc9kBqO8s6DevbiwEXjv6n2pXZDZ+rNmlo3MrCkDI CVuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id :thread-topic:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=OgPT13u9el0ahiKdlcfp1NSLJLAkmh9jbZBQvWP0mdM=; b=hQ9qIUsZLpToeb1m1EvcNlPtyzfQkFGqVrDZXXh2f5H+zp9jVG/jicByou2NauvfAO oFbqMOCG5s95RirF33OS9oAJhiRjChe+/Yn+58q+qBEcBbKclTb8tOcMxlM5L6vF7GFR hBBLKAGT5kS+45JoeMVKUtTjN8J7bdxc/k/Pd3WuEUmmOn98mr8sn/hhhXHlyN9e12vi Vu5lLcSC7D8A/A/rbs2hrqRcI0t0MtQtvqW5R4HHkeeYjOosD4rs4bFO38+pwnmWuGTL Yx8kMqEXaoUmTqC3UNDpzsVJYbFSnl0ZqLjwMSX4F28U01lsrDGSdxhdaisMhx8JP5eY pEIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111C5XTV5/WsVdu4MynsEJ3mo7P+VqKD7pOPD67Qk+vaSG5XOIN7 t4QLTyTjh8YqvQ== X-Received: by 10.98.24.202 with SMTP id 193mr4824695pfy.304.1501177666704; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.22.175.184] ([2620:10d:c090:380::2:8bd9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z76sm38134076pfi.148.2017.07.27.10.47.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:47:45 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.24.1.170721 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:47:43 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Benoit Claise , , Jari Arkko CC: IAB Message-ID: <4BE59E61-D0D8-4CDA-AA69-421A2FA3DEF7@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps References: <1a49dbe4-bd99-ef70-656b-93075775131e@cisco.com> <51e1fe1b-0eb0-3df8-ac08-bbf16059cf37@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51e1fe1b-0eb0-3df8-ac08-bbf16059cf37@cisco.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 17:47:49 -0000 Benoit, Thanks for sharing. As discussed =E2=80=93 we will continue working towards narrowed down and realist= ic set of requirements towards IETF, that should guide all the great work ha= ppening across different area=E2=80=99s/wg=E2=80=99s. >From IAB that would be Jari and myself. Cheers, Jeff (as the BoF IAB shepherd) -----Original Message----- From: Netslices on behalf of Benoit Claise Date: Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 10:32 To: Subject: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps Dear all, =20 Thanks for all who contributed to the netslicing BoF: the document=20 authors, the presenters, the participants, and the chairs. During this=20 week, next to BoF itself, I've had multiple opportunities to speak abou= t=20 netslicing, with some BoF proponents, with the IAB shepherds, and with=20 the IESG/IAB on Friday afternoon, etc. This helped me understanding the= =20 different points of views and clarified some aspects. =20 It's true that the network slicing has got a specific meaning in the=20 context of 5G, but, as Georg (as liaison) stressed: there are no 3GPP=20 requirements for the IETF at this point in time. Nevertheless, there ar= e=20 parts that the IETF should look at. And there are parts of the network=20 slicing concept that are already being worked on at the IETF. ACTN come= s=20 to mind, but also DETNET, and I heard of VPN+. The individual work in=20 WGs should continue and potentially be extended. =20 Note that I carefully used the "network slicing concept" term in the=20 previous sentence. As one important next step, it would nice to focus o= n=20 a common "network slicing" definition, at least its meaning for the IET= F. =20 As mentioned during the BoF, this is not the IETF role to define a=20 complete orchestrator, controller, or NMS/OSS. This should be developed= =20 by an opensource project. However, what would be a practical next step=20 is to specify a kind of network slicing template, with the envisioned=20 required parameters. From there, we could determine what's missing when= =20 we try to map it to a specific (IETF) technologies. =20 Let me make up an (hopefully simple) example: I would like to have a=20 network slice with a guaranteed bandwidth b, end-to-end jitter j, packe= t=20 loss p, end-to-end max delay d. Do we even those abilities in the=20 underlying technologies? =20 Regards, Benoit (as the BoF responsible AD) =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Netslices mailing list Netslices@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices =20 From nobody Fri Jul 28 19:00:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF7B131EC0 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 19:00:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id exBpFBWSz0uY for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 19:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB217131EB0 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 19:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DLM69410; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:59:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 02:59:57 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 09:59:46 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: Jeff Tantsura , Benoit Claise , Jari Arkko CC: IAB , "NetSlices@ietf.org" , "qiangli (D)" , Yudelei Thread-Topic: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps Thread-Index: AQHTBv5S7ak40KA+I0Cmu5KvF0Y2w6JnbMyAgAKLlbA= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:59:45 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3BF21@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <1a49dbe4-bd99-ef70-656b-93075775131e@cisco.com> <51e1fe1b-0eb0-3df8-ac08-bbf16059cf37@cisco.com> <4BE59E61-D0D8-4CDA-AA69-421A2FA3DEF7@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4BE59E61-D0D8-4CDA-AA69-421A2FA3DEF7@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.185.119] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.597BEC1F.005D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ae142d9878d5edf268a6bcabccc6a2d6 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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10.80.152.227 with SMTP id j90mr7879919edb.98.1501447899654; Sun, 30 Jul 2017 13:51:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1a49dbe4-bd99-ef70-656b-93075775131e@cisco.com> <51e1fe1b-0eb0-3df8-ac08-bbf16059cf37@cisco.com> <4BE59E61-D0D8-4CDA-AA69-421A2FA3DEF7@gmail.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3BF21@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3BF21@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Jeff Tantsura Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 20:51:29 +0000 Message-ID: To: Sheng Jiang , Benoit Claise , Jari Arkko Cc: IAB , "NetSlices@ietf.org" , "qiangli (D)" , Yudelei Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1957feb52e1e05558f142a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 20:51:44 -0000 --94eb2c1957feb52e1e05558f142a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sheng, Great, thanks for the update. Would be great if you'd bring your work to IETF at a rather early stage, otherwise there could be a rather large gap, between what we will be doing in IETF vs your team's work. Also think about collaboration with all the efforts you have mentioned above and how to build on top (API's, data models) rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. IAB/IESG will continuously direct the overall effort. Looking forward to seeing your work. Thanks, Jeff On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 19:00 Sheng Jiang wrote: > Benoit & Jeff, > > Thanks for your clear advices and instructions, which we will follow. For > me, a unified slice template/object and its management are modest work fo= r > IETF to start work. My team is working on such design and correspondent > implementation. The implementation is also including orchestration > algorithms and mapping the unified slice template/object to one/multiple > specific network infrastructures, for which VPN, Virtual router, Detnet, > ACTN, and other new technologies are in our consideration. We are plannin= g > a demonstration on this for IETF 100 Bits-N-Bites, too. > > Many thanks and best regards, > > Sheng > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff > Tantsura > > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 1:48 AM > > To: Benoit Claise; NetSlices@ietf.org; Jari Arkko > > Cc: IAB > > Subject: Re: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps > > > > Benoit, > > > > Thanks for sharing. > > As discussed =E2=80=93 we will continue working towards narrowed down a= nd > realistic > > set of requirements towards IETF, that should guide all the great work > > happening across different area=E2=80=99s/wg=E2=80=99s. > > > > >From IAB that would be Jari and myself. > > > > Cheers, > > Jeff (as the BoF IAB shepherd) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Netslices on behalf of Benoit Claise > > > > Date: Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 10:32 > > To: > > Subject: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps > > > > Dear all, > > > > Thanks for all who contributed to the netslicing BoF: the document > > authors, the presenters, the participants, and the chairs. During > this > > week, next to BoF itself, I've had multiple opportunities to speak > about > > netslicing, with some BoF proponents, with the IAB shepherds, and > with > > the IESG/IAB on Friday afternoon, etc. This helped me understanding > the > > different points of views and clarified some aspects. > > > > It's true that the network slicing has got a specific meaning in th= e > > context of 5G, but, as Georg (as liaison) stressed: there are no 3G= PP > > requirements for the IETF at this point in time. Nevertheless, ther= e > are > > parts that the IETF should look at. And there are parts of the > network > > slicing concept that are already being worked on at the IETF. ACTN > comes > > to mind, but also DETNET, and I heard of VPN+. The individual work = in > > WGs should continue and potentially be extended. > > > > Note that I carefully used the "network slicing concept" term in th= e > > previous sentence. As one important next step, it would nice to > focus on > > a common "network slicing" definition, at least its meaning for the > IETF. > > > > As mentioned during the BoF, this is not the IETF role to define a > > complete orchestrator, controller, or NMS/OSS. This should be > developed > > by an opensource project. However, what would be a practical next > step > > is to specify a kind of network slicing template, with the envision= ed > > required parameters. From there, we could determine what's missing > > when > > we try to map it to a specific (IETF) technologies. > > > > Let me make up an (hopefully simple) example: I would like to have = a > > network slice with a guaranteed bandwidth b, end-to-end jitter j, > packet > > loss p, end-to-end max delay d. Do we even those abilities in the > > underlying technologies? > > > > Regards, Benoit (as the BoF responsible AD) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netslices mailing list > > Netslices@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices > --94eb2c1957feb52e1e05558f142a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sheng,

Great, thanks for the update.
Would be great if you'd= bring your work to IETF at a rather early stage, otherwise there could be = a rather large gap, between what we will be doing in IETF vs your team'= ;s work. Also think about collaboration with all the efforts you have menti= oned above and how to build on top (API's, data models) rather than try= ing to reinvent the wheel.
IAB/IESG will continuously direct the overall= effort.

Looking forward to seeing your work.

Thanks,
Jeff=
On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 19:= 00 Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huaw= ei.com> wrote:
Benoit & = Jeff,

Thanks for your clear advices and instructions, which we will follow. For m= e, a unified slice template/object and its management are modest work for I= ETF to start work. My team is working on such design and correspondent impl= ementation. The implementation is also including orchestration algorithms a= nd mapping the unified slice template/object to one/multiple specific netwo= rk infrastructures, for which VPN, Virtual router, Detnet, ACTN, and other = new technologies are in our consideration. We are planning a demonstration = on this for IETF 100 Bits-N-Bites, too.

Many thanks and best regards,

Sheng

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsur= a
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 1:48 AM
> To: Benoit Claise; NetSlices@ietf.org; Jari Arkko
> Cc: IAB
> Subject: Re: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps >
> Benoit,
>
> Thanks for sharing.
> As discussed =E2=80=93 we will continue working towards narrowed down = and realistic
> set of requirements towards IETF, that should guide all the great work=
> happening across different area=E2=80=99s/wg=E2=80=99s.
>
> >From IAB that would be Jari and myself.
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff (as the BoF IAB shepherd)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netslices <netslices-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Benoit Claise=
> <bclaise@cis= co.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 10:32
> To: <NetSli= ces@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dear all,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks for all who contributed to the netslicing Bo= F: the document
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0authors, the presenters, the participants, and the = chairs. During this
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0week, next to BoF itself, I've had multiple opp= ortunities to speak about
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0netslicing, with some BoF proponents, with the IAB = shepherds, and with
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the IESG/IAB on Friday afternoon, etc. This helped = me understanding the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0different points of views and clarified some aspect= s.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It's true that the network slicing has got a sp= ecific meaning in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0context of 5G, but, as Georg (as liaison) stressed:= there are no 3GPP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requirements for the IETF at this point in time. Ne= vertheless, there are
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0parts that the IETF should look at. And there are p= arts of the network
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0slicing concept that are already being worked on at= the IETF. ACTN comes
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to mind, but also DETNET, and I heard of VPN+. The = individual work in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0WGs should continue and potentially be extended. >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that I carefully used the "network slicin= g concept" term in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0previous sentence. As one important next step, it w= ould nice to focus on
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a common "network slicing" definition, at= least its meaning for the IETF.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As mentioned during the BoF, this is not the IETF r= ole to define a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0complete orchestrator, controller, or NMS/OSS. This= should be developed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by an opensource project. However, what would be a = practical next step
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is to specify a kind of network slicing template, w= ith the envisioned
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0required parameters. From there, we could determine= what's missing
> when
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0we try to map it to a specific (IETF) technologies.=
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Let me make up an (hopefully simple) example: I wou= ld like to have a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network slice with a guaranteed bandwidth b, end-to= -end jitter j, packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0loss p, end-to-end max delay d. Do we even those ab= ilities in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0underlying technologies?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards, Benoit (as the BoF responsible AD)
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Netslices mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Netslices@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/netslices
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf= .org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices<= /a>
--94eb2c1957feb52e1e05558f142a-- From nobody Mon Jul 31 06:29:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netslices@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB9881322C1 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 06:29:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cN-ft3SXLTR6 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 06:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF12E1322C7 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 06:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DLQ25902; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 13:29:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:29:47 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 21:29:36 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: Jeff Tantsura , Benoit Claise , Jari Arkko CC: IAB , "NetSlices@ietf.org" , "qiangli (D)" , Yudelei Thread-Topic: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps Thread-Index: AdMKAGnb97VsastuSSimKT2vNGVTGg== Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 13:29:35 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3CEB1@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.61.226] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3CEB1NKGEML515MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.597F30CD.00C5, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 7061b55738e6fd5fe1b84574f9b36797 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netslices] netslicing/netslices: Potential next steps X-BeenThere: netslices@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is intended for discussion and review of network slicing at IETF." 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