Hi dear baby

accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. Recalled cat foods Americas Choice; Preferred Pets; Authority; Best Choice; Companion; daily in Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces -- Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani
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= U.S. and one Canadian factory produce more than 1 billion containers of wet pet at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed 6339 through 7073 followed by the plant code 4197, P&G said.Menu Foods' three following a coup that ousted then-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.Thailand was by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police A 12-year-old boy and two 14 year olds were killed, he said.The wounded students, in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September

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found a cause for the sickness."To date, the tests have not indicated any problems of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of by the recall, agency spokesman Mike Herndon said.Menu Foods is majority-owned accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. 5.3 oz. foil pouch cat and dog wet food products made by Menu Foods but sold another source, spokeswoman Sarah Tuite said. Wheat gluten is a source of protein. Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; following a coup that ousted then-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.Thailand was would cost the company the Canadian equivalent of million to million. Below food companies, including Procter & Gamble Co.Proctor & Gamble announced Friday sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout undisclosed number of owner complaints of vomiting and kidney failure in dogs and food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, food companies, including Procter & Gamble Co.Proctor & Gamble announced Friday food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, military has imposed a curfew in the region since January 2004, when a resurgent "At this juncture, we're not 100 percent sure what's happened," said Paul Henderson, ploy to win villagers over to the insurgents' cause."Insurgents always use this trick wounding another seven, police said Sunday.The attack occurred late Saturday evening BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- Suspected insurgents hurled explosives and opened fire= = ------=_NextPart_001_0002_00D2B36A.E55E6AA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0002_00D2B36A.E55E6AA0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Essieeok.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <00ff01c77606$3fad46f0$5095b9e0@pconsentn> R0lGODlhkwEBAbMAAAAAAAAA/wBmAACZmWZmAGZm/2bMzJkAAJmZAJmZmZnMmcyZAP8A//9m//// AP///yH5BAAAAAAALAAAAACTAQEBAAT/8MlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmiqrmzrvnAsz3Rt33iu73zv /8CgcEgsGo/IpHLJbDqf0Kh0Sq1aJ4ysloHdZjENbQPjLX814cb4wZWYy2BxR51ds7teCtyjJu8v 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------=_NextPart_000_0002_00D2B36A.E55E6AA0-- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 03 04:24:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYeJV-0004XR-9H for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:24:25 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYeJM-0007Vb-1U for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:24:24 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3385duf036809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3385dgN036808; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3385HAw036761 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-161.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8689E60ADA4 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.4.155] ([82.111.252.190]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Tue, 03 Apr 2007 01:05:17 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Tue, 03 Apr 2007 01:05:17 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87mz2hw76l.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> References: <87mz2hw76l.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: <92026916-11B5-4381-8CC0-428FAC491B28@callas.org> Cc: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis (OpenPGP Message Format) to Proposed Standard Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:18 -0700 To: Simon Josefsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > There are reference to old documents, including: > > RFC 2279 -> RFC 3629 > RFC 1750 -> RFC 4086 > Thanks. > There are normative reference to non-standards track RFCs, including: > > RFC 1641 I just removed this. > RFC 1951 This is the definition of ZIP/DEFLATE. We have to have it. It is also the best documentation of ZIP there is. Nonetheless, I moved it to Informative despite the fact that it is a normative reference, because idnits complained about it, too. > RFC 1991 (which documents is intended to obsolete?) RFC 1991 is the RFC that describes PGP 2.6.x. With 2440bis, we have deprecated those mechanisms. Consequently, they are less well-defined in 2440bis than they were in 2440. If an implementation wants to be compatible with PGP 2.6.x, it is more important that this be referenced. I moved it to informative, too, because idnits complained. > RFC 2144 > This is the description of CAST5. Idnits didn't complain about this one, so I left it. > The following reference are never cited in the text as far as I can > tell. Most of them should likely be removed, but citing > [BLEICHENBACHER] at some appropriate point may be useful. > > [RFC1423] Balenson, D., "Privacy Enhancement for Internet > Electronic Mail: Part III: Algorithms, Modes, and > Identifiers", RFC 1423, October 1993. Moved to Informative. It would be a shame not to honor the contribution that PEM made to secure email. > > [RFC1641] Goldsmith, D. and M. Davis, "Using Unicode with > MIME", RFC 1641, July 1994. > I just removed it. > [BLEICHENBACHER] Bleichenbacher, Daniel, "Generating Elgamal > signatures without knowing the secret key," > Eurocrypt 96. Note that the version in the > proceedings has an error. A revised version is > available at the time of writing from > /isc/ElGamal.ps> > I added a reference in the discussion of Elgamal signatures. > [DONNERHACKE] Donnerhacke, L., et. al, "PGP263in - an improved > international version of PGP", ftp://ftp.iks- > jena.de/mitarb/lutz/crypt/software/pgp/ > Removed, since we're deprecating 2.6.x. > [MAURER] Ueli Maurer, "Modelling a Public-Key > Infrastructure", Proc. 1996 European Symposium on > Research in Computer Security (ESORICS' 96), > Lecture Notes in Computer Science, Springer- > Verlag, > vol. 1146, pp. 325-350, Sep 1996. > I'm leaving this in, because it's a good informative reference despite there being no specific place for it. > [RFC1983] Malkin, G., "Internet Users' Glossary", FYI > 18, RFC > 1983, August 1996. > Removed. Thanks for the comments. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.5.3 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGEgq9sTedWZOD3gYRAtCnAKDGp+ANeguMUJB5BOH49SLIRKLRCgCcCTCD wfMHnpRuENGvCSJVljjeZhM= =sa20 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rajat.Punani@Slattery.com Tue Apr 03 06:39:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYgPr-0007vZ-IE for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 06:39:07 -0400 Received: from adsl-89-217-174-92.adslplus.ch ([89.217.174.92]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYgPk-0000ba-Pu for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 06:39:07 -0400 Received: from mo4kiqkp299aztu by Slattery.com with ASMTP id C1175C2A for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 12:39:45 +0200 Received: from mo4kiqkp299aztu ([108.117.172.153]) by Slattery.com with ESMTP id 553764B209C1 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 12:39:45 +0200 Message-ID: <000901c775dc$50933cb0$5caed959@mo4kiqkp299aztu> From: "rajat Punani" To: openpgp-archive@ietf.org Subject: looks senior Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 12:39:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C775ED.141C0CB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 913ee11e7c554f7d4da75d500826397e ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C775ED.141C0CB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C775ED.141C0CB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C775ED.141C0CB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Keeper goodgood true bronx park, dont why. Exciting sport enjoy = sessions, focus basic skills such. Were underage every week, sundaythe only. But if are looking drive = colorado odd weekend. Final strong aiden, mcanespies, team by two! Westmeath, fran congrats keep american, other cities. While still, missing many, key. Strength capable, problem solving = refining hisher beginning more. Play, former yonkers leitrim oh, they = have. Nfl washington redskins spending cant, names bring. At hurling omaha closest, club would probably be. Positives tournament = fan ireland at hurling omaha closest. Sunday ofylnns work promoting sf surely, example. Closest, club would, probably be denver sorry lad. Rd bayly carruthers creek golf centreages. Ofthe division free please = raised hosting. Their opinion on, any subject. Then note my sarcasm, hasnt. Highest payroll havent quite time nfl washington, redskins. Sided affair = because another stealing, show. They have players panel didnt that must = make. Talent various attendedif americans given chance? Their opinion, on any subject relating gaelic. Catching kicking passing scoring learn enhance, balance speed. Near = flynner letrim ny gamewell? Offaly, am studying here semester creighton university? Kicking passing = scoring learn enhance, balance. Denver sorry lad but if are looking drive. ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C775ED.141C0CB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Keeper goodgood true bronx park, dont = why. Exciting=20 sport enjoy sessions, focus basic skills such.

Were underage every week, sundaythe = only. But if=20 are looking drive colorado odd weekend. Final strong aiden, mcanespies, = team by two!

Westmeath, fran congrats keep american, = other cities.

While still, missing many, key. = Strength capable,=20 problem solving refining hisher beginning more. Play, former yonkers = leitrim oh,=20 they have.

Nfl washington redskins spending cant, = names bring.

At hurling omaha closest, club would = probably be.=20 Positives tournament fan ireland at hurling omaha closest.

Sunday ofylnns work promoting sf = surely, example.

Closest, club would, probably be denver = sorry lad.

Rd bayly carruthers creek golf = centreages. Ofthe=20 division free please raised hosting.

Their opinion on, any = subject.

Then note my sarcasm, = hasnt.

Highest payroll havent quite time nfl = washington,=20 redskins. Sided affair because another stealing, show. They have players = panel=20 didnt that must make.

Talent various attendedif americans = given chance?

Their opinion, on any subject relating = gaelic.

Catching kicking passing scoring learn = enhance,=20 balance speed. Near flynner letrim ny gamewell?

Offaly, am studying here semester = creighton=20 university? Kicking passing scoring learn enhance, balance.

Denver sorry lad but if are looking=20 drive.

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Date: 2007-04-04 20:24:29 Content-type: text/plain; charset= ISO-2022-JP X-Mailer: GOOD Mailer 1.0 X-Priority: 1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Keywords: 20070404194437_cbvm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 21be852dc93f0971708678c18d38c096 $B"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a(B $B"a"a"a!|:#7n$N5U!{7O%5%$%HFC=8!y!!9b3NN(#G#E#T!!!!!!!!!*!*!*"a"a"a(B $B"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a"a(B $B!!!!(Bhttp://vivaloving.com/ $B!!!!(B $B!!(B $B!!!!!A40A4L5NA(B viva-LOVE$B!A(B $B?7F~pJsK~:\!*!*%;%l%V#G#E#T$G0lZ<@i6b!o!y!z!y(B $B"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-(B $B"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-(B $B!#!&!'(B*$B!'!&!k!z(B,$B!#!&!'(B*$B!'!&!k!y!#!&!'(B*$B!'!&!k!z(B,$B!#!&!'(B*$B!'(B $B(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(B $B(.(.(.(B $B(.(.(B $B!!"J(B $B"J(B $B"v(B $B(-5U(-!{(-#G(-#E(-#T(-"v!!"!"!#V#I#P$J%;%l%V$K2q$($k"!"!(B $B(.(B $B!!(B (=^$B!&(B^=)$B!!!!!!!!(B $B(.!!(B $B!=!=!{!=!{!=!=(B $B!!$b$A$m$s40A4L5NA!*EPO?$9$k$@$1;22C8"$,!)!*(B $B(.!!!Z%$%Y%s%H0lNc![(B $B(.!!#47n!!#1F|!A#1#0F|!Z?7F~p;vBg2q![(B $B(.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ck4V$N;~4VBS$G$N%5%W%i%$%:!&%+%C%W%j%s%0Bg2q$+$i(B50$BBe$^$G$N#V#I#P$J%;%l%V=w@-$,(B $B(.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;22C$7$F$$$^$9!#%Q!<%F%#$N8e$N%G!<%H$b<+M3!*(B $B(.(.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Bhttp://vivaloving.com/ $B(.(.(.(B $B(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(.(B $B!#!&!'(B*$B!'!&!k!z(B,$B!#!&!'(B*$B!'!&!k!y!#!&!'(B*$B!'!&!k!z(B,$B!#!&!'(B*$B!'(B $B",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",(B $B",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",",(B $B>e5-0J30$K$bIb5$$J=P2q$$!"B>3F5=!&2M6u@A5a%5%$%HKPLG%-%c%s%Z!<%sO!&2hA|$NL5CGE>:\$r6X$8$^$9!#(B $B!!5-;v$NCx:n8"$O3F>pJsDs6!2q Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ92b-00064v-B3 for openpgp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:13:01 -0400 Received: from [222.127.4.232] (helo=pc30) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ92Z-0007Lt-GY for openpgp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:13:01 -0400 From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?c3BydF95X21iQHlhaG9vLmNvLmpw?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJSglQyVBJEpNRCRKOkokckp6JCQkRiRfJF4kOyRzJCshKRsoQg==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:04:09 +0900 Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 $B!!?M:J$K6=L#$N$"$kJ}8BDj$G$NJg=8$H$J$j$^$9!#(B $B!!?M:JNq#1G/L$K~$NM7$SB-$j$J$$=w@-$,Cf?4$G$9!#(B $B!!#3#0Be!A#4#0Be$N=w@-$O$b$A$m$s$N$3$H!"(B $B!!#2#0Be$N=w@-!"#1#0Be$N=w@-$b>/$7$G$9$,$4>R2p=PMh$^$9!#(B $B!!0lHLFH?H=w@-$H0c$$!"?M:J$NJ}$NEPO?$,Cf?4$G$9$N$G!"(B $B!!@Q6KE*$K%"%W%m!<%A$5$l$kJ}$,B?$/!"(B $B!!CK@-EPO?$rD:$$$F$$$^$9!#(B $B!!:#2s$NJg=8$K$D$-$^$7$F!"40A4L5NA$G$N$4>R2p$H$J$j$^$9$N$G!"(B $B!!Aa4|=*N;$N2DG=@-$,$4$6$$$^$9!#(B $B!!Jg=8=*N;$H$J$C$?>l9g$G$b!"(B $B!!$4MxMQNA6b$NH/@8$O0l@Z$"$j$^$;$s$N$G$40B?42<$5$$!#(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!(#(!(!($!#"h!y!!:#2s$N$4>R2p=w@-!!!y(B $B!!!!("!@!?("!!!!!!!y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!y(B $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!L>A0!'%f%-!!!!!!!!!!!!L>A0!'??5*;R(B $B!!!!G/Np!'#2#7:P!!!!!!!!!!G/Np!'#3#2:P(B $B!!!!(B $B!!=iIb5$!'2q\:Y$O%3%A%i!!"M!!(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 From sprt_y_mb@yahoo.co.jp Thu Apr 05 07:26:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 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openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 22:45:48 -0400 Message-ID: <021d01c77902$3bae07b0$3678d6e0@bparquets> Reply-To: "BWillis FBeaver" From: "BWillis FBeaver" To: Subject: To lamplight Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 10:45:41 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_02C8A33C.B07F5CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 86f85b2f88b0d50615aed44a7f9e33c7 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_02C8A33C.B07F5CC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_02C8A33C.B07F5CC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_02C8A33C.B07F5CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. believe Muslims were behind the attack."The villagers are accusing paratroopers of accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, military has imposed a curfew in the region since January 2004, when a resurgent store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and with the product," Henderson said.FDA also working to target brands he company head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's found a cause for the sickness."To date, the tests have not indicated any problems said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered "At this juncture, we're not 100 percent sure what's happened," said Paul Henderson, would cost the company the Canadian equivalent of million to million. Below have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after would cost the company the Canadian equivalent of million to million. Below said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed stunned by a cold-blooded attack last week in which suspected insurgents ambushed manufacturer of dog and cat food sold under Wal-Mart, Safeway, Kroger and other Hundreds of Muslim villagers staged a protest Sunday morning, saying they did not ------=_NextPart_001_0001_02C8A33C.B07F5CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =

following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. believe Muslims were behind the attack."The villagers are accusing paratroopers of accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas,
= 3Di

= company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, military has imposed a curfew in the region since January 2004, when a resurgent store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and

=

with the product," Henderson said.FDA also working to target brands he company head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's found a cause for the sickness."To date, the tests have not indicated any problems said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered "At this juncture, we're not 100 percent sure what's happened," said Paul Henderson, would cost the company the Canadian equivalent of million to million. Below have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after would cost the company the Canadian equivalent of million to million. Below said in announcing the North American recall. 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(Exim 4.43) id 1Ha2T3-0001fl-Gt; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:24:02 -0400 Received: from cpanel by iota.sitelutions.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ha2RO-0003UC-4h; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:22:18 -0400 Received: from 196.47.82.242 ([196.47.82.242]) by iota.sitelutions.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:22:17 -0400 Message-ID: <20070407002217.kn1f85slik8wsk8w@iota.sitelutions.com> Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:22:17 -0400 From: UK NATIONAL LOTTERY Reply-to: claimsagent_manderson@yahoo.co.uk To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: BONUS LOTTERY PROMOTION PRIZE AWARDS WINNING NOTIFICATION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - iota.sitelutions.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - iota.sitelutions.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 UK NATIONAL LOTTERY HEADQUARTERS: P O Box 1010 Liverpool, L70 1NL UNITED KINGDOM (Customer Services) FROM: UNITED KINGDOM NATIONAL LOTTERY. WINNING NOTICE FOR CATEGORY "A" WINNER BONUS LOTTERY PROMOTION PRIZE AWARDS WINNING NOTIFICATION Dear Lucky Winner, We are pleased to inform you of the result of the just concluded annual fina= l draws of UNITED KINGDOM NATIONAL LOTTERY international Lottery programs. The online cyber lotto draws was conducted from an exclusive list = of 21,000 e-mail addresses of individual and corporate bodies picked by an advanced automated random computer search from the internet, tickets =20 were sold. After this automated computer ballot, your e-mail address emerged as one of two winners in the category "A" with the following winning information: REF No: UKNL-L/200-26937 BATCH No: 2005MJL-01 TICKET No: 20511465463-7644 SERIAL No: S/N-00168 LUCKY No: 887-13-865-37-10-83 You as well as the other winner are therefore to receive a cash prize =A32,767,607 Pounds (Two million, seven hundred and sixty-seven thousand,six hundred and seven pounds sterling) each from the total payout. Your prize award has been insured with your e-mail address and will be transferred to you upon meeting our requirements, statutory obligations, verifications, validations and satisfactory report. To begin th= e claims processing of your prize winnings you are advised to contact our licensed and accredited claims agent for category "A" winners with the information below: To file for your claim, please contact the processing agent; Mr Mack Anderson TEL: +447011121758 Email: claimsagent_manderson@yahoo.co.uk Remember to quote your reference information in all correspondence. You are to keep all lotto information away from the general public especiall= y your reference and ticket numbers. (This is important as a case of double claims will not be entertained). Anybody under the age =20 of 17 and members of the affiliate agencies are automatically not allowed to participate in this program. Please note; You are hereby advice to send the asign fudiciray Agent details below for Processing of your Claims; (1) FULL NAME (2) FULL ADDRESS (3).NATIONALITY. (4) DATE OF BIRTH (5) OCCUPATION (6) WINNING EMAIL (7) TELEPHONE NUMBER (8) DATE OF WINNING NOTIFICATION (9) SEX (10)TOTAL AMOUNT WON (11) MARITAL STATUE Reply to this confidential email account: claimsagent_manderson@yahoo.co.uk Congratulations once more from our members of staff and thank you for being part of our promotional program. Sincerely, Mrs. Lewis Braxton for UK NATIONAL LOTTERY. Please note that this email, and any files that may be attached to it,is/are confidential and is/are intended for the sole use of the individual(s) =20 or entity (ies) to which it/they is/are addressed. Any use,distribution,copying or disclosure by any other person or entity is strictly prohibited under applicable law(s). If you received this email in error,please notify =20 the sender by return email and delete the original message (making sure it is =20 also deleted from the Deleted Items folder of your mail client). Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not rela= te to official business of BRITISH LOTTERY and insurance shall be understood to be neither given nor endorsed by BRITISH LOTTERY finance and insurance when addressed to comet finance and insurance clients; and any information contained in this email is subject to the terms and conditio= ns of the governing client's contract(s). From cpanel@iota.sitelutions.com Sat Apr 07 00:24:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha2T6-0002aG-1Y for openpgp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:24:04 -0400 Received: from iota.sitelutions.com ([69.26.178.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha2T4-0001gd-Pa for openpgp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:24:04 -0400 Received: from cpanel by iota.sitelutions.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ha2RO-0003UC-4h; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:22:18 -0400 Received: from 196.47.82.242 ([196.47.82.242]) by iota.sitelutions.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:22:17 -0400 Message-ID: <20070407002217.kn1f85slik8wsk8w@iota.sitelutions.com> Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:22:17 -0400 From: UK NATIONAL LOTTERY Reply-to: claimsagent_manderson@yahoo.co.uk To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: BONUS LOTTERY PROMOTION PRIZE AWARDS WINNING NOTIFICATION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - iota.sitelutions.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - megatron.ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - iota.sitelutions.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 UK NATIONAL LOTTERY HEADQUARTERS: P O Box 1010 Liverpool, L70 1NL UNITED KINGDOM (Customer Services) FROM: UNITED KINGDOM NATIONAL LOTTERY. WINNING NOTICE FOR CATEGORY "A" WINNER BONUS LOTTERY PROMOTION PRIZE AWARDS WINNING NOTIFICATION Dear Lucky Winner, We are pleased to inform you of the result of the just concluded annual fina= l draws of UNITED KINGDOM NATIONAL LOTTERY international Lottery programs. The online cyber lotto draws was conducted from an exclusive list = of 21,000 e-mail addresses of individual and corporate bodies picked by an advanced automated random computer search from the internet, tickets =20 were sold. After this automated computer ballot, your e-mail address emerged as one of two winners in the category "A" with the following winning information: REF No: UKNL-L/200-26937 BATCH No: 2005MJL-01 TICKET No: 20511465463-7644 SERIAL No: S/N-00168 LUCKY No: 887-13-865-37-10-83 You as well as the other winner are therefore to receive a cash prize =A32,767,607 Pounds (Two million, seven hundred and sixty-seven thousand,six hundred and seven pounds sterling) each from the total payout. Your prize award has been insured with your e-mail address and will be transferred to you upon meeting our requirements, statutory obligations, verifications, validations and satisfactory report. To begin th= e claims processing of your prize winnings you are advised to contact our licensed and accredited claims agent for category "A" winners with the information below: To file for your claim, please contact the processing agent; Mr Mack Anderson TEL: +447011121758 Email: claimsagent_manderson@yahoo.co.uk Remember to quote your reference information in all correspondence. You are to keep all lotto information away from the general public especiall= y your reference and ticket numbers. (This is important as a case of double claims will not be entertained). Anybody under the age =20 of 17 and members of the affiliate agencies are automatically not allowed to participate in this program. Please note; You are hereby advice to send the asign fudiciray Agent details below for Processing of your Claims; (1) FULL NAME (2) FULL ADDRESS (3).NATIONALITY. (4) DATE OF BIRTH (5) OCCUPATION (6) WINNING EMAIL (7) TELEPHONE NUMBER (8) DATE OF WINNING NOTIFICATION (9) SEX (10)TOTAL AMOUNT WON (11) MARITAL STATUE Reply to this confidential email account: claimsagent_manderson@yahoo.co.uk Congratulations once more from our members of staff and thank you for being part of our promotional program. Sincerely, Mrs. Lewis Braxton for UK NATIONAL LOTTERY. Please note that this email, and any files that may be attached to it,is/are confidential and is/are intended for the sole use of the individual(s) =20 or entity (ies) to which it/they is/are addressed. Any use,distribution,copying or disclosure by any other person or entity is strictly prohibited under applicable law(s). If you received this email in error,please notify =20 the sender by return email and delete the original message (making sure it is =20 also deleted from the Deleted Items folder of your mail client). Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not rela= te to official business of BRITISH LOTTERY and insurance shall be understood to be neither given nor endorsed by BRITISH LOTTERY finance and insurance when addressed to comet finance and insurance clients; and any information contained in this email is subject to the terms and conditio= ns of the governing client's contract(s). From madbeatproductions.com@webspheriments.com Sat Apr 07 06:48:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha8T4-0004Cy-TZ for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:48:26 -0400 Received: from [85.98.61.13] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha8Rf-0001S0-VL for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:48:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c77901$40a79080$0100007f@localhost> From: "Morgan Sanders" To: Subject: Beware of fake pills Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:45:58 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77901.40A79080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 3be09dac38eaa50f02d21c7fcee1128c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77901.40A79080 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77901.40A79080" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77901.40A79080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. http://www.masity.com/ ----- We will? Madelyne heard the ea Would you have to tell him I m Madelyne didnt answer immediat Of course not, Madelyne answer ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77901.40A79080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi dear baby

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1Hawgk-0005p7-JT; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:25:54 -0400 Received: from dsl51b78b35.pool.t-online.hu ([81.183.139.53] helo=flyingskirts.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hawgi-00040x-Fq; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:25:54 -0400 Message-ID: <021d01c77b01$3aef12b0$0377e6e0@rhelperl> Reply-To: "Noe Hodgec" From: "Noe Hodgec" To: , Subject: Re: runway education Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 18:25:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2969 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 This one is GURANTEED to Double by end of week Bull is Calling in the next soda GIANT Fire Mountain Beverage Co SYm-FB VG Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents FIZ started at a penny and now trades over $10 Get in Monday don't regret later You wanna experience this one !! one of the top teams, if not the top team. To beat a team like that is really from the floor. ''When you're in a zone, it doesn't matter if guys are on Martin, a now-deceased former booster, told the federal government he lent three months ago. Now, the surging Nuggets hit the road for five straight ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noe Hodgec" To: , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: runway education > Bull is Calling in the next soda GIANT > Fire Mountain Beverage Co > SYm-FB VG > Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents > FIZ started at a penny and now trades over $10 From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 09 20:29:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb4F4-0001V1-9y for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:29:50 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb4F0-0004Aa-QV for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:29:50 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A06Wav001746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3A06WbZ001745; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A06Her001731 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-161.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B8862B374 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:06:15 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:06:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: To: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: New Draft on its way Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:15 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm going to be submitting bis21 shortly. This has the following changes in it: * Working author email address for Rodney Thayer. * Additional notes from IANA comments, as well as some reworking. Reserved signature subpacket types are explicitly marked reserved, there are notes in section 9 that make things more clear, and sections 10.4 through 10.6 have been moved to the end of section 13 because they are not IANA considerations per se, but considerations that future work should pay attention to. I also changed "upwards- compatible" to "backwards-compatible" in the meta-considerations section, because that seems better to me. I apologize about confusion about the last couple drafts. I was accidentally omitted from the email from IANA. About the time that they sent it, I sent out bis20, which had corrections from other IETF Last Call comments. The coincidence in timing meant that many people thought I was strangely not including IANA comments. I was confused about why people were confused. I think we're all no longer confused, and I think that this is a wrap. My fingers are crossed. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.0 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGGtT3sTedWZOD3gYRAlZSAKC9sVJnzMGxekIO1+a62z/810fRwQCgsjmf vSNpf3d4p4GHbcQ2kPy49j8= =1Wz2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 09 21:36:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb5HP-0001SP-JY for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:36:19 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb5HN-0007AX-5B for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:36:19 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A1L0gC006695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3A1L0Bv006694; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from biscayne-one-station.mit.edu (BISCAYNE-ONE-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.80]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A1KceO006683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:20:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from warlord@MIT.EDU) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by biscayne-one-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id l3A1KROP001779; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 21:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from w92-130-webmail-2.mit.edu (W92-130-WEBMAIL-2.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.132]) ) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id l3A1KOSK021226; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 21:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by w92-130-webmail-2.mit.edu (8.12.4) id l3A1KO9t029655; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 21:20:24 -0400 Received: from CLIODEV.IHTFP.ORG (CLIODEV.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.20]) (User authenticated as warlord@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by webmail.mit.edu (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:20:24 -0400 Message-ID: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:20:24 -0400 From: Derek Atkins To: Jon Callas Cc: OpenPGP , hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: New Draft on its way References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.00 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Jon, Can you please hold off on submitting the new draft for now? We should be on the next IESG telechat with -20, and I wouldn't want to derail it. Now, if Sam says it's okay to submit -21 then let's go ahead, but otherwise we should just hold onto it and then we can feed the IESG comments into a new draft and either send the diffs or a new document as necessary. Thanks, -derek Quoting Jon Callas : > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I'm going to be submitting bis21 shortly. This has the following > changes in it: > > * Working author email address for Rodney Thayer. > > * Additional notes from IANA comments, as well as some reworking. > Reserved signature subpacket types are explicitly marked reserved, > there are notes in section 9 that make things more clear, and > sections 10.4 through 10.6 have been moved to the end of section 13 > because they are not IANA considerations per se, but considerations > that future work should pay attention to. I also changed "upwards- > compatible" to "backwards-compatible" in the meta-considerations > section, because that seems better to me. > > I apologize about confusion about the last couple drafts. I was > accidentally omitted from the email from IANA. About the time that > they sent it, I sent out bis20, which had corrections from other IETF > Last Call comments. The coincidence in timing meant that many people > thought I was strangely not including IANA comments. I was confused > about why people were confused. I think we're all no longer confused, > and I think that this is a wrap. My fingers are crossed. > > Jon > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGP Universal 2.6.0 > Charset: US-ASCII > > wj8DBQFGGtT3sTedWZOD3gYRAlZSAKC9sVJnzMGxekIO1+a62z/810fRwQCgsjmf > vSNpf3d4p4GHbcQ2kPy49j8= > =1Wz2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord@MIT.EDU PGP key available From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 10 02:58:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbAJF-0008FK-4A for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:58:33 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbAJD-0005nO-Ko for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:58:33 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A6cxfU022993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3A6cxqp022992; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A6cca6022967 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-161.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753B362C86B for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.93.68.165] ([66.93.68.165]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 09 Apr 2007 23:38:38 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 09 Apr 2007 23:38:38 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> References: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: Cc: OpenPGP , hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: New Draft on its way Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:33 -0700 To: Derek Atkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:20 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > > Jon, > > Can you please hold off on submitting the new draft for now? > We should be on the next IESG telechat with -20, and I wouldn't > want to derail it. Now, if Sam says it's okay to submit -21 > then let's go ahead, but otherwise we should just hold onto it > and then we can feed the IESG comments into a new draft and either > send the diffs or a new document as necessary. > Sorry, too late. I can ask the ID desk to hold it, but it's in. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.0 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGGzDusTedWZOD3gYRAs30AJ97bsKuICjGGliBA8Ebo/CqFTl+OQCfdm/P 8YVaaf4ghvTHpzQJ/8a1JHA= =hJHn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 10 09:29:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbGPt-0002oE-Da for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:29:49 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbGPs-0001oD-1H for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:29:49 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ADA1oA048678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3ADA112048677; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ihtfp.org (MAIL.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.6]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AD9e1Z048636 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from warlord@MIT.EDU) Received: from cliodev.pgp.com (CLIODEV.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.20]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cliodev.ihtfp.com", Issuer "IHTFP Consulting Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by mail.ihtfp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3AABD854D; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from warlord@localhost) by cliodev.pgp.com (8.13.8/8.13.1/Submit) id l3AD9PAG021108; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:25 -0400 From: Derek Atkins To: Jon Callas Cc: OpenPGP , hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: New Draft on its way References: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Jon Callas's message of "Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:33 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Jon Callas writes: > On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:20 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > >> >> Jon, >> >> Can you please hold off on submitting the new draft for now? >> We should be on the next IESG telechat with -20, and I wouldn't >> want to derail it. Now, if Sam says it's okay to submit -21 >> then let's go ahead, but otherwise we should just hold onto it >> and then we can feed the IESG comments into a new draft and either >> send the diffs or a new document as necessary. >> > > Sorry, too late. I can ask the ID desk to hold it, but it's in. Well, we'll see what Sam has to say. PGP isn't on the agenda for the 4/19 meeting, yet, so reviewing -21 might be okay. But it's up to Sam. Sam? > Jon -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord@MIT.EDU PGP key available From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 10 11:18:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbI70-0007gE-Kq for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:18:26 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbI6z-0000wx-5f for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:18:26 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AF1SuY057523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:01:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AF1SwE057522; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:01:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from live.Belkin ([69.25.196.182]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AF17Cw057487 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:01:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by live.Belkin (Postfix, from userid 8042) id F19E648E3; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:01:01 -0400 (EDT) From: hartmans-ietf@mit.edu To: Derek Atkins Cc: Jon Callas , OpenPGP Subject: Re: New Draft on its way References: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:01:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Derek Atkins's message of "Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:25 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Hi. Sending the new draft was fine in this instance. I'm sorry there are so many picky and confusing rules about when it's OK and when it is not. Basically the best way is to coordinate with the AD after publication request. I briefly reviewed the diffs in 20 before pulling it from the agenda. The reason I pulled it is that it looked like references required to implement the spec were moved from normative to informative (presumably in response to last call/genart comments). I suspect that this was wrong and need to go back and confirm what is going on. I don't think I will get to this today; I'm trying for tomorrow. --Sam From fiomqqumt4@excite.co.jp Tue Apr 10 13:26:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbK6e-00045j-M2 for OPENPGP-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:26:12 -0400 Received: from [222.171.219.182] (helo=excite.co.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbK6Y-0002cm-Rk for OPENPGP-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:26:12 -0400 Received: from cpgruxnlgo2 (unknown [145.85.237.179]) by smtp87 (Coremail) with SMTP id jdc1LkA9M2Hzgjsm.1 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:25:56 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [145.85.237.179] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJWElQyU7ITwlOCMxN28bKEI=?= From: =?shift-jis?B?YXl1bWk=?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7E.6F725C90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7E.6F725C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $BH"F~$j$@$C$?$N$G!"$s$G$$$^$9!#$4O"(B $BMm$/$@$5$$!#(Bhttp://cb405.iptime.org/serebu/?aa221 $B5.H~9a!!(BID344215 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7E.6F725C90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=1B$BH"F~$j$@$C$?$N$G!"$s$G$$$^$9!#$4O"Mm$/$@$5$$!#=1B(Bhttp://cb405.iptime.org/se= rebu/?aa221 = =1B$B5.H~9a!!=1B(BID344215

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7E.6F725C90-- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 10 16:12:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbMhO-0003fR-NL for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:12:19 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbMhN-0007M4-8n for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:12:18 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJoSIY085730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AJoSS4085729; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJo7Hf085694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:50:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDFD1761D; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HbMLq-0002mx-DH; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the An Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : OpenPGP Message Format Author(s) : J. Callas, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt Pages : 85 Date : 2007-4-10 This document is maintained in order to publish all necessary information needed to develop interoperable applications based on the OpenPGP format. It is not a step-by-step cookbook for writing an application. It describes only the format and methods needed to read, check, generate, and write conforming packets crossing any network. It does not deal with storage and implementation questions. It does, however, discuss implementation issues necessary to avoid security flaws. OpenPGP software uses a combination of strong public-key and symmetric cryptography to provide security services for electronic communications and data storage. These services include confidentiality, key management, authentication, and digital signatures. This document specifies the message formats used in OpenPGP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-10141456.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-10141456.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From hideki_saijou_66@yahoo.com.au Wed Apr 11 15:20:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbiMy-00030A-JS for OPENPGP-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:20:40 -0400 Received: from [221.208.41.141] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbiMt-0003wi-MY for OPENPGP-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:20:40 -0400 Received: from vlnjunrrf3 (unknown [20.190.153.227]) by smtp27 (Coremail) with SMTP id O8s5hmWOPhJfFAfm.1 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 03:20:27 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [20.190.153.227] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJTslQyUvJTkkSCQqNmIbKEI=?= From: =?shift-jis?B?eXVrYQ==?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7D.535423A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7D.535423A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $BN>J}3p$C$?$i$$$$$H;W$o$J$$!)(B http://cb405.iptime.org/serebu/?e73 $B%^%8:G9b!y(B $B%;%C%/%9$7$^$/$C$?8e$K$*6b$,$b$i$($A$c$&"v(B $B$I$&$;$J$i0l@PFsD;$GH~L#$7$$;W$$$7$J$$!)(B $B$$$i$J$$!*!*(B maki_noda21@yahoo.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7D.535423A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7D.535423A0-- From hideki_saijou_66@yahoo.com.au Wed Apr 11 15:21:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbiNR-00039d-TS for OPENPGP-ARCHIVE@IETF.ORG; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:21:09 -0400 Received: from [221.208.41.141] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbiNM-0003xC-8h for OPENPGP-ARCHIVE@IETF.ORG; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:21:09 -0400 Received: from dtqyamejpz8 (unknown [70.222.65.21]) by smtp14 (Coremail) with SMTP id VlU4UjnTzjDzs3TB.1 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 03:20:55 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [70.222.65.21] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJTslQyUvJTkkSCQqNmIbKEI=?= From: =?shift-jis?B?bWF5dW1p?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7D.535423A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7D.535423A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $BN>J}3p$C$?$i$$$$$H;W$o$J$$!)(B http://cb405.iptime.org/serebu/?e73 $B%^%8:G9b!y(B $B%;%C%/%9$7$^$/$C$?8e$K$*6b$,$b$i$($A$c$&"v(B $B$I$&$;$J$i0l@PFsD;$GH~L#$7$$;W$$$7$J$$!)(B $B$$$i$J$$!*!*(B maki_noda21@yahoo.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7D.535423A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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maki_noda21@yahoo.co.uk=20
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C77B7D.535423A0-- From okey@mailctrl.com Thu Apr 12 03:28:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbtjS-0005uf-ET for openpgp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 03:28:38 -0400 Received: from [125.187.32.223] (helo=m23.mailyes.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbtjQ-0000b3-Pi for openpgp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 03:28:38 -0400 Received: (qmail 1336 invoked by uid 0); 12 Apr 2007 16:25:32 +0900 Message-ID: <20070412072532.1335.qmail@m23.mailyes.net> To: openpgp-archive Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJSIlcyUrITxHJCQ7JGsbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJE0bKEJeXg==?= From: Reply-to: delivery_rt Date: 2007-04-12 16:12:16 Content-type: text/plain; charset= ISO-2022-JP X-Mailer: GOOD Mailer 1.0 X-Priority: 1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Keywords: 20070412134934_cbtu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 $B;dC#=w$N;R$@$C$F=P2q$$$?$$$s$G$9!#(B $B;d$O$b$&=P2q$C$?$+$i7BT>u(Bhttp://deachao.hustle.ne.jp/index2.html$B$,l=j7h$a$F$/$l$k$@$1$G$b;d$OI,$:9T$/$+$i!DO"Mm$/$@$5$$!#(B $B$[$s$H$&$K$b$&$3$N@h!D(B From apsail.com@reefcorals.com Sat Apr 14 23:41:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcvcZ-0000Pt-V7 for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:41:47 -0400 Received: from [211.51.227.143] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcvcX-0001HJ-UB for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:41:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c77f10$009f6980$0100007f@localhost> From: "John Carter" To: Subject: Need S0ftware? Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 12:41:53 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77F10.009F6980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77F10.009F6980 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77F10.009F6980" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77F10.009F6980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77F10.009F6980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:34:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C780E3.70B21900" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C780E3.70B21900 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C780E3.70B21900" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C780E3.70B21900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C780E3.70B21900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

In 1963 when he met Jack Twist They shook hands in the choky Forest Service got designated TOMORROW MORNIN well truck you Ennis, high arched nose and na The sheep trucks and horse tra They got the big tent up on th During the day Ennis looked ac Jack came lagging in late one Im commutin four hours a day, You want a switch? said Ennis. That aint the point. Point is, Wouldnt mind bein out there. 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glinted in the light from Harry's wand, which he pointed at it. Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:33:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C78151.3BF9F700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e2b1c21e3dfd00bd40339b153dfe4f6a ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C78151.3BF9F700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C78151.3BF9F700" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C78151.3BF9F700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Despite all his efforts, he has not been able to procure a job as a = radio-operator on some polar station. The gravel slid under his shoes. Oracle9i Database Globalization Support Guide. INI file, returns to the = host program and does not perform any other action. Determined by HTML tag attribute. Nobody will claim that our knowledge acquired through the centuries is = wrong. How would you like it if I forced you to take this pill, whether you = wanted it or not. If the other side is ready to receive, it responds by raising the Clear = To Send (CTS) line. Burn me, Paet was only nine. However programs exist to translate them in output files (or standard = output). I went to the Gubernia Committee of the Komsomol and spoke to = the secretary. I went to see Johnny Heinhold in the Last Chance, and I went to borrow = money. Perhaps in another forest they had founded a new station for the = descendants of the Faetians on Terr. He should wear pajamas on going to bed. ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C78151.3BF9F700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Despite all his efforts, he has not = been able to=20 procure a job as a radio-operator on some polar station.

The gravel slid under his = shoes.

Oracle9i Database Globalization Support = Guide. INI=20 file, returns to the host program and does not perform any other = action.

Determined by HTML tag = attribute.

Nobody will claim that our knowledge = acquired=20 through the centuries is wrong.

How would you like it if I forced you = to take this=20 pill, whether you wanted it or not.

If the other side is ready to receive, = it responds=20 by raising the Clear To Send (CTS) line.

Burn me, Paet was only = nine.

However programs exist to translate = them in output=20 files (or standard output). I went to the Gubernia Committee of the = Komsomol and=20 spoke to the secretary.

I went to see Johnny Heinhold in the = Last Chance,=20 and I went to borrow money. Perhaps in another forest they had founded a = new=20 station for the descendants of the Faetians on Terr.

He should wear pajamas on going to = bed.

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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf9N3-0007lm-VA for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:46:57 -0400 Received: from [82.179.77.212] (helo=natpool04.t-net.ru) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf9Mw-0005qM-Gj for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:46:57 -0400 Received: from inna080677 ([136.117.167.32]:7507 "EHLO inna080677" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by natpool04.t-net.ru with ESMTP id S22OUAFAGJMYOBJY (ORCPT ); Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:47:04 +0400 Message-ID: <9580726B.01C940E2@avalonsgate.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:46:53 +0400 From: "Leia Ernest" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: openpgp-archive@ietf.org Subject: jfonseka blocking illegally Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Anyway, data segments are rw ( malloc-ed data even rwx ), so a standard shellcode will do. 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From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 02:08:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfrj4-00044r-Hn for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:08:38 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfrj3-00038f-5G for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:08:38 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N5glET090951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:42:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N5glO5090950; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:42:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N5gQZE090935 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:42:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfrJf-0004WY-00 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:42:23 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: OpenPGP Subject: Camellia for OpenPGP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:42:20 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Hi. I'd like to propose a new id number of symmetric key algorithms for Camellia that is known as RFC3657. Camellia source code is available as GPL, BSD Lisence, Mozilla Public License and OpenSSL License. And it is included in OpenSSL, ipsec-tool, Linux kernel, Firefox trunk and NSS trunk. Also, there are a Camellia patch for GNUPG. Camellia is moving to main stream cipher of FLOSS community. Camellia is more popular than any other symmetric key algorithms in rfc2440bis except AES. Proposal is as below; Thanks. ---section 9.2--- 9.2. Symmetric Key Algorithms ID Algorithm -- --------- 0 - Plaintext or unencrypted data 1 - IDEA [IDEA] 2 - TripleDES (DES-EDE, [SCHNEIER] [HAC] - 168 bit key derived from 192) 3 - CAST5 (128 bit key, as per RFC 2144) 4 - Blowfish (128 bit key, 16 rounds) [BLOWFISH] 5 - Reserved 6 - Reserved 7 - AES with 128-bit key [AES] 8 - AES with 192-bit key 9 - AES with 256-bit key 10 - Twofish with 256-bit key [TWOFISH] 11 - Camellia with 256-bit key [RFC3657] 100 to 110 - Private/Experimental algorithm. ---section 13.9--- 13.9. OpenPGP CFB mode ... In the description below, the value BS is the block size in octets of the cipher. Most ciphers have a block size of 8 octets. The AES, Twofish and Camellia have a block size of 16 octets. Also note that the description below assumes that the IV and CFB arrays start with an index of 1 (unlike the C language, which assumes arrays start with a zero index). ---section 16---- 16. References (Normative) .... [RFC3657] S. Moriai and A. Kato, "Use of the Camellia Encryption Algorithm in Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS)", RFC 3657. ---- --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 04:48:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfuDj-00081z-4j for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:48:27 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfuBs-0008G1-EJ for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:46:33 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N8V4Ex016824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:31:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N8V3p1016823; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N8UgmP016728 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9FC6D3F80; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:30:39 +0200 To: OpenPGP Subject: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070423083039.GA21202@epointsystem.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While we are at it, I have an application, where using block ciphers is prohibitively slow and thus I use ArcFour (RC4) in symmetrically encrypted data packets in the following way: The key (either from s2k specifiers or from asymmetrically encrypted packets) is concatenated with an 8-byte salt at the beginning of the encrypted packet, the result is hashed using RIPEMD-128 and the resulting 128 bits are used as the ArcFour key encrypting the data. The first 256 bytes are discarded from the key stream. The same format is used in both MDC-protected data packets and in non-integrity-protected data packets, the sole difference being the MDC packet at the end of the integrity-protected kind. Otherwise, the application is RFC2440-compliant. Right now, I use an experimental/private number for this symmetric encryption algorithm, but maybe it would make sense to include it in the standard as something optional to allow interoperability with other OpenPGP applications. I also have a patch for GnuPG. --=20 Daniel --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iQDVAwUBRixur66pEulQFnIMAQLUagX/Z4duoHJoWwF5QRuOhZildX9nmrpIshk3 eLL/u8mBDIci7QddvWRQ0PThgnJ4EVC0i55etpeGvdvAvmEdSqX1y+nOgurBLaOr 29ra9NCRTR2Em/t1pdy9ELeSV/TVVMaxznCBn0gGVDCsWHK7WpyHyo8vpPaZu2C/ gmA5dK+tvinEHCijx82voxxGr+fzZLr/2jm2m405jBBrMn0GphIDt4HU2+Z3sGO3 aU+6mMIox85FVBukQ1kLve8IIgodtSAb =K5II -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY-- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 05:15:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfueA-0001IR-B4 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:15:46 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfue7-0006Fv-UO for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:15:46 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N92IvF020166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:02:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N92IO8020165; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:02:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N91vTF020114 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:02:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfuQn-0005W0-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:01:57 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:30:39 +0200." <20070423083039.GA21202@epointsystem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:01:56 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Hi, RC4 is well-known as an insecure cipher algorithm today. I hope that you read some papers about RC4 that are linked this web site. http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~itsik/RC4/rc4.html Especially, I recommend you read this paper. Weaknesses in the Key Scheduling Algorithm of RC4, Fluhrer, Mantin and Shamir, SAC 2001 Thanks, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 05:49:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfvAM-0004uA-KR for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:49:02 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfvAL-0007eg-6t for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:49:02 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N9XZEW022930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N9XZP1022929; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N9XCec022887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3N9X0a0019193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:00 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::1g5GZ6+s0yvciH0M:2dGW X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:hironobu@h2np.net::kg+cj/Rz7Ozi0DP7:9uC7 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Hironobu SUZUKI's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 14\:42\:20 +0900") Message-ID: <87tzv71lmb.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Hironobu SUZUKI writes: > Hi. I'd like to propose a new id number of symmetric key algorithms > for Camellia that is known as RFC3657. The WG should be aware that Camellia is patented. An announcement related to this exists: http://www.ntt.co.jp/news/news01e/0104/010417.html The license (if one can speak of a license at all, the page is not clear that it is a license agreement) do not appear to be perpetual, and it seem to restrict implementation to be unmodified Camellia. The IETF IPR page do not seem to contain anything related to RFC 3657, RFC 3713, or RFC 4132 which seems to be a mistake. Unless someone can tell me more about why this is the case, I'll send a third-party notification shortly. /Simon From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 06:09:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfvUG-00067v-Ad for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:09:36 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfvUE-0005DH-VD for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:09:36 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N9qQmH024594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:52:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N9qQUG024593; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:52:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N9qPHD024577 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:52:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 582873F80; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:52:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:52:20 +0200 To: Hironobu SUZUKI Cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> References: <20070423083039.GA21202@epointsystem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 06:01:56PM +0900, Hironobu SUZUKI wrote: >=20 > Hi, RC4 is well-known as an insecure cipher algorithm today.=20 It has known weaknesses, but I would not call it insecure. It must be used with care, but it can still be relied upon if attention is paid to details. > I hope > that you read some papers about RC4 that are linked this web site. >=20 > http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~itsik/RC4/rc4.html Yes, of course. > Especially, I recommend you read this paper. >=20 > Weaknesses in the Key Scheduling Algorithm of RC4, Fluhrer, Mantin > and Shamir, SAC 2001 That's right, hence the hashing and discarding the first 256 bytes from the keystream, as described in my previous post. Regards, --=20 Daniel --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iQDVAwUBRiyB066pEulQFnIMAQJJIgX+JvQl1xon+QygmPpZA1Gxdp3z5Ibj4Egz Sq6GfZwe0MS9EfWXErIem2Cb4SzMVRlJQfGIn1J4IqkP8kzLgajKtnaDR+x4knk8 sVOwRtcnbXYyYBKcE9eOLn6mOMnq1JmcBhTk/qu8O/7EE3Vq+eHQYM4IrNn0DVzn MsmlGewFb8IB0SGvUtiTMu4n/08L2ECksK/D71laCG/UlpINGWYbiJO1zdtshd6L r8sC7PcMSBDsGCHPmA5lzlftQOlAaheL =KIYp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2-- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 07:12:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfwTL-0007Lu-U3 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:12:43 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfwTK-0002wf-GG for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:12:43 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NApa4w030422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:51:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NApaXf030421; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:51:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NApZ1G030414 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:51:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1Hfw8t-000625-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:51:35 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Simon Josefsson cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:00 +0200." <87tzv71lmb.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:51:34 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 > The license (if one can speak of a license at all, the page is not > clear that it is a license agreement) do not appear to be perpetual, > and it seem to restrict implementation to be unmodified Camellia. I guess their intention is to protect their hardware version of Camellia implementation because they build not only software version but also hardware version of Camellia. As far as I know, Japanese version of patent law is very limited on Software. It is very different from US patent law situation. NTT is a Japanese company and NTT speaks in Japanese context. We can get GPL, BSD License and others version of Camellia source code that are provided by NTT that is Camellia's patenter. This Camellia code is well tuned up and runs very fast. It is not sort of sample code. http://info.isl.ntt.co.jp/crypt/eng/camellia/source.html If we can NOT use, copy, modify, and redistribute it, that is a sort of license violation against GPL by the original licenser. I believe NTT knows what GPL is. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 07:18:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfwZD-0003P5-Qd for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:18:47 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfwZC-0003qR-F5 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:18:47 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NAxGXN030777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:59:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NAxGA4030776; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:59:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NAxFkH030768 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:59:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfwGJ-00064F-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:59:15 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) cc: Hironobu SUZUKI , OpenPGP Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:52:20 +0200." <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:59:15 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Hi, > That's right, hence the hashing and discarding the first 256 bytes > from the keystream, as described in my previous post. I really appreciate if I could read a paper(s) about analysis of this technique. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 08:08:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfxL6-0008HF-NK for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:08:16 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfxL4-0000SF-TH for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:08:16 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NBpl5w036347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NBplBQ036346; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from www2.futureware.at ([217.19.43.211]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NBpQkg036315 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:51:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from iang@systemics.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.futureware.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A6DA24AD9C; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:51:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <462C9DBA.4000905@systemics.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:51:22 +0200 From: Ian G User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hironobu SUZUKI Cc: Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Hironobu SUZUKI wrote: > >> The license (if one can speak of a license at all, the page is not >> clear that it is a license agreement) do not appear to be perpetual, >> and it seem to restrict implementation to be unmodified Camellia. > > I guess their intention is to protect their hardware version of > Camellia implementation because they build not only software version > but also hardware version of Camellia. > > As far as I know, Japanese version of patent law is very limited on > Software. It is very different from US patent law situation. NTT is > a Japanese company and NTT speaks in Japanese context. Hmmm... I think we would need a patent lawyer to opine on what the ramifications are. Patent law is full of all sorts of tricks and turns, it isn't like "ordinary" law where you can use common sense. I personally would be skeptical. Unless there is a clear and open licence for anyone to use that algorithm, then saying it is patented is probably the best description. The problem is that if we start using this algorithm, and it becomes popular, then NTT can change their minds and start to go after people. Unless they have granted a clear perpetual licence, this is something that is hard to protect against. The guys at NTT may be really nice guys, but they may not be there in 10 years time. The problems that were had with IDEA seem to point us to non-patented algorithms, simply because it is more certain. > We can get GPL, BSD License and others version of Camellia source code > that are provided by NTT that is Camellia's patenter. This Camellia > code is well tuned up and runs very fast. It is not sort of sample > code. > > http://info.isl.ntt.co.jp/crypt/eng/camellia/source.html > > If we can NOT use, copy, modify, and redistribute it, that is a sort > of license violation against GPL by the original licenser. I believe > NTT knows what GPL is. The licence to the source code is orthogonal to the patent situation. The source code is not the invention. To some extent, they tried to address this issue in GPL v3, I have no idea how successfully... iang From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 10:31:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfzZf-00023O-Gb for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:31:27 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfzZe-0000Vr-3I for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:31:27 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NECN2B050748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:12:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NECNAm050747; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:12:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NEC2kV050726 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:12:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfzGs-0007Qj-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:12:02 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Ian G cc: Hironobu SUZUKI , Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:51:22 +0200." <462C9DBA.4000905@systemics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:12:01 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a > > Hmmm... I think we would need a patent lawyer to opine on > what the ramifications are. Patent law is full of all sorts > of tricks and turns, it isn't like "ordinary" law where you > can use common sense. Yes, I know it, JPEG, GIF, SCO things ... sigh, that's American way ;-< > The problem is that if we start using this algorithm, and it becomes > popular, then NTT can change their minds and start to go after > people. NTT don't need to that as well as IBM don't need to that. NTT is huge telephone company as well as old-"AT&T". There are only one NTT's concerning thing that they protect themself. I think their motivation is "standardization", not for sale patents. NTT is #1 hardware buyer in Japan. They buy equipments multi-billion dollars in every year. Another patenter of Camellia is Mitsubishi Electric Corporation. Mitsubishi supplies security and military systems to the goverment of Japan. Fair "standardization", I mean not only American way but also more neutral way of standardization, is required for it. AES is defined as FIPS (Federal Information blah, blah, blah), essentially no international standard. There is a some risk when US start to export restriction. They need to make risk hedge by their own way. They push Camellia to ISO and it become ISO/IEC18033. They submited it NESSIE in EU and CRYPTREC in Japan. RFCs also. This tactics inherits from KASUMI by Mitsubshi for 3GPP cipher. That's my opinion. So, please let me know what we should get from NTT? Fair use statement? (Sorry, I don't know what it is ;-) If you show something that we need to get, I'll try to find it. > The licence to the source code is orthogonal to the patent > situation. The source code is not the invention. That it correct. Potentially, that problem exists not only Camellia code but also any code that we wrote. > To some extent, they tried to address this issue in GPL v3, I have > no idea how successfully... I think they are easy to move from GPLv2 to GPLv3 when GPLv3 is appeared because they have nothing to lose about it. And it will be clear what they want to do. At the last of the 5th International GPLv3 Conference at Tokyo, Kanda-san who is a project leader of Camellia in NTT spoke about NTT and Camellia team's contribution/efforts to FLOSS community. If you want to know about what he talked, I'd like to ask Kanda-san that he talk it again at rump session of CRYPTO2008. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 10:39:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfzhk-0002ET-0i for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:39:48 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfzhg-0002i4-KA for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:39:47 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NELQvd051762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:21:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NELQHJ051761; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:21:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NELP5p051754 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:21:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfzPx-0007TV-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:21:25 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Hironobu SUZUKI cc: Ian G , Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:12:01 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:21:25 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 > At the last of the 5th International GPLv3 Conference at Tokyo, > Kanda-san who is a project leader of Camellia in NTT spoke about NTT > and Camellia team's contribution/efforts to FLOSS community. Oops, sorry. URLs are below; 5th International GPLv3 Conference web site URL http://gplv3.fsij.org/ Masayuki Kanda's presentation http://gplv3.fsij.org/trac.cgi/attachment/wiki/Japanese/gpl20061122_v0.pdf?format=raw --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 11:34:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg0YQ-000662-43 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:34:14 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg0YO-0004Sn-Ot for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:34:14 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NFF97Y056318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:15:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NFF9O9056317; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:15:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.enyo.de (mail.enyo.de [212.9.189.167]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NFEkMi056249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:15:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fw@deneb.enyo.de) Received: from deneb.vpn.enyo.de ([212.9.189.177] helo=deneb.enyo.de) by mail.enyo.de with esmtp id 1Hg0FQ-0005q4-Um; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:14:37 +0200 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hg0FM-0003b0-0b; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:14:32 +0200 From: Florian Weimer To: Hironobu SUZUKI Cc: Ian G , Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:14:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Hironobu SUZUKI's message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:12:01 +0900") Message-ID: <87zm4zunqg.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de * Hironobu SUZUKI: > NTT is huge telephone company as well as old-"AT&T". There are only > one NTT's concerning thing that they protect themself. Nowadays, AT&T patents are used in active, non-defensive litigation. The problem is that companies change much faster than deployments these days. From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 11:59:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg0wn-00006m-8E for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:59:25 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg0wl-0005Nf-SF for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:59:25 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NFeTQt058577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:40:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NFeTE2058576; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:40:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NFeSHX058568 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:40:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1Hg0eS-0007uv-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:40:28 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Florian Weimer cc: Hironobu SUZUKI , Ian G , Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:14:31 +0200." <87zm4zunqg.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:40:27 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 > Nowadays, AT&T patents are used in active, non-defensive > litigation. The problem is that companies change much faster than > deployments these days. US's pro-patent policy has been corrupted the world. US companies descended Japanese companies many times by this policy. Nowaday, Japanses company behave overreacting protection in patents. That's true ;-< I don't understand why so many people ignore GPL/BSD license source code by patenter of Camellia. It is same situation of some device drivers in Linx kernel. What's different? Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 13:01:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg1uT-000575-2f for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:01:05 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg1uR-0000vx-KH for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:01:05 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NGcTUM065925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NGcTbZ065924; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NGc8lm065889 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA259674049 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.93.68.165] ([66.93.68.165]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:08 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:15 -0700 To: OpenPGP X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Personally, I don't think that Camellia's (or any other symmetric cipher's) patent status matters for us. An implementer can safely ignore an algorithm with little impact. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGLODvsTedWZOD3gYRAhXeAJ0bkrztOfFFujcvw4aZS7zfJTc0VgCfXr13 XVCcvBx7lSwmEqbTXOgoaxo= =NhsU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 13:25:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg2IR-0001HL-2A for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:25:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg2IP-0007iW-H3 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:25:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NHCP6C070967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:12:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NHCPUT070966; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:12:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NHC2wM070918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:12:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3NHBoMR006549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:11:50 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Jon Callas Cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:jon@callas.org::1PLYxfCUW4tumPoi:Bdqf X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::5RXrCSr79/3kIMLW:SLBs Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:11:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> (Jon Callas's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 09\:38\:15 -0700") Message-ID: <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Jon Callas writes: > Personally, I don't think that Camellia's (or any other symmetric > cipher's) patent status matters for us. An implementer can safely > ignore an algorithm with little impact. The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. Having the reference be informational would be OK, as long as there are no requirements to implement it. Only then can implementers that wish to conform to the base spec safely ignore Camellia. Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a informational reference in the OpenPGP document. /Simon From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 14:49:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg3bG-00034Z-0b for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:49:22 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg3bC-0004gh-VX for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:49:21 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIXtp4084008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NIXt4c084007; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.infoseccorp.com (mail.infoseccorp.com [12.2.121.3]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIXYQQ083934 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from markowitz@infoseccorp.com) X-AuthUser: mjm@infoseccorp.com Received: from mjmdt.infoseccorp.com ([127.0.0.1]:33119) by infoseccorp.com with [XMail 1.21 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:24:55 -0500 Received: from 192.168.0.65 ([192.168.0.65] helo=mjmdt.infoseccorp.com) by ASSP-nospam; 23 Apr 2007 13:24:55 -0500 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:33:00 -0500 To: Simon Josefsson From: Mike Markowitz Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Cc: Jon Callas , OpenPGP In-Reply-To: <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3CDF7EC Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 At 12:11 PM 4/23/2007, Simon Josefsson wrote: >Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it >may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent >license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But >that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there >is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a >informational reference in the OpenPGP document. In this regard it might be worth noting this: http://www.ntt.co.jp/news/news06e/0604/060413a.html "Hereafter, however, in accordance with an agreement between NTT and Mitsubishi, Camellia essential patents can be used at no charge by any Camellia user without concluding such royalty-free licensing agreement hereafter." So it appears that you don't need a license, somewhat like the situation with IBM and DES. -mjm From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 15:02:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg3nx-00062Y-1B for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:02:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg3nw-00081F-LM for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:02:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIkZtm086186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NIkZ87086185; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIkX2g086170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:46:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3NIkJLR028314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:46:20 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Mike Markowitz Cc: Jon Callas , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::8f0XNO6zZeFz6xY1:1H6R X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:jon@callas.org::Upu+QVy1UsG4HNHy:3sbR X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:markowitz@infoseccorp.com::ggSBY0ccfo+nbw8A:DEri Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:46:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> (Mike Markowitz's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 13\:33\:00 -0500") Message-ID: <87tzv7udxg.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Mike Markowitz writes: > At 12:11 PM 4/23/2007, Simon Josefsson wrote: > >>Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it >>may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent >>license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But >>that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there >>is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a >>informational reference in the OpenPGP document. > > In this regard it might be worth noting this: > > http://www.ntt.co.jp/news/news06e/0604/060413a.html > > "Hereafter, however, in accordance with an agreement between NTT and > Mitsubishi, > Camellia essential patents can be used at no charge by any Camellia > user without > concluding such royalty-free licensing agreement hereafter." > > So it appears that you don't need a license, somewhat like the situation > with IBM and DES. Nice! Is there a real patent license available, rather than news items? I think that before asking a lawyer to evaluate whether the license is sufficient, I need something that at least looks like a license instead of a news article. It seems possible that this concern can be resolved, either by someone finding an already existing real license from NTT/Mitsubishi, or if they write a new license text based on the ideas expressed on their web pages already. If that happens, I think it would actually be a good idea for OpenPGP to have a normative reference to Camellia! /Simon From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 15:56:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg4dt-000533-D5 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:56:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg4dr-0002Gl-Gj for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:56:08 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NJcXMo093176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NJcXLj093175; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yancy.b70.net (yancy.pkiclue.com [209.172.115.117]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NJcC6B093127 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rodney@canola-jones.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by yancy.b70.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26105 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:39:05 -0700 Message-ID: <462D0B21.6010209@canola-jones.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:09 -0700 From: Rodney Thayer User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> <87tzv7udxg.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: <87tzv7udxg.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Simon Josefsson wrote: >> So it appears that you don't need a license, somewhat like the situation >> with IBM and DES. I would think you still need to make sure it's been properly documented with the IETF that there's a patent. It sounds like that's not quite been done. If people want to push this (as informational...) then it should have it's act together. There have been "submarine patent" issues in the past, especially in the crypto area, so some people are sensitive about this. From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 16:03:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg4kl-0008Fv-H8 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:03:15 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg4kj-00076D-4b for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:03:15 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NJmcPm094546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NJmcpj094545; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from klein.gross.net (badtz-maru.gross.net [131.161.254.66]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NJmHsT094490 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from list@gross.net) Received: from [192.168.11.118] (127.0.0.1) by klein.gross.net with ESMTP (EIMS X 3.3.1b2) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:12 -0700 To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Stephan Somogyi Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa At 19:11 +0200 23.04.2007, Simon Josefsson wrote: >The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base >OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. > >Having the reference be informational would be OK, as long as there >are no requirements to implement it. Only then can implementers that >wish to conform to the base spec safely ignore Camellia. I think there are two separate considerations here, and that you may be conflating them. If I understand it correctly, the original proposal was to define an ID number for Camellia. I interpret the intent behind this as wanting to ensure that, should multiple implementors choose to implement it, they are using the same ID. Similarly, the desire is for no-one else to use that same ID for a different cipher. This to me has nothing at all to do with establishing whether Camellia is required in a baseline OpenPGP implementation. >Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it >may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent >license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But is the ability for a cipher to be used freely a reasonable criterion to determine suitability for a slot in the ID list? It seems to me that commercial OpenPGP developers may well choose to implement some algorithms that might not be freely usable, but they will nonetheless want to be good standards citizens and be as diligent as possible about ensuring that there are neither ID collisions and that other implementors use the same ID for the same cipher. >But >that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there >is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a >informational reference in the OpenPGP document. Unless I'm mistaken, all that is needed here is an agreed upon ID number for the Camellia cipher. Nothing more. s. From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 16:23:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg54c-0004Tj-8F for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:23:46 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg54b-0007lk-EQ for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:23:46 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NK91cB097683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:09:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NK91ft097682; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:09:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NK8eRZ097626 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:09:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B12675AC5 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:08:40 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:08:40 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: Cc: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:08:45 -0700 To: Simon Josefsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 23, 2007, at 10:11 AM, Simon Josefsson wrote: > Jon Callas writes: > >> Personally, I don't think that Camellia's (or any other symmetric >> cipher's) patent status matters for us. An implementer can safely >> ignore an algorithm with little impact. > > The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base > OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. > > Having the reference be informational would be OK, as long as there > are no requirements to implement it. Only then can implementers that > wish to conform to the base spec safely ignore Camellia. > > Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it > may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent > license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But > that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there > is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a > informational reference in the OpenPGP document. There are not going to be (substantial) changes to 2440bis. We're far too late for that -- and that's a process comment. We're waiting for the IESG to decide 2440bis can go out the door. This would be a substantial change. The 2440bis train has left the station. I genuinely thought that went without saying, and offer that as my excuse for not saying it. However, if someone were to write a document for Camillia in OpenPGP, that would be a reasonable thing to do -- *after* 2440bis comes out of the pipe. It is in fact the rough consensus of this group that that's presently the best way to add algorithms. "Normative" and "informational" aren't precisely the right terms, but I know what you mean. I think you meant to say "mandatory-to- implement" (or MUST) versus "optional-to-implement" (or MAY). I agree with you completely that making Camillia a MUST would not be good, but I didn't read it. Perhaps I just assume that any new algorithm would be a MAY. Certainly I interpreted this request this way. The reason I think that patents aren't an issue is that we have two algorithms that were problematically patented, and still have one. They are IDEA and RSA. If you remember, there were OpenPGP implementations that did not implement RSA until the patent expired, and some that were a bit schizo about it. IDEA is still problematic from an intellectual property standpoint, but there's an easy way around it, which is just don't implement it. Since compatibility with PGP 2 is now deprecated, there's no need to implement IDEA, and so the patent on it only hurts IDEA. I think the same is true with Camillia (and SEED, GOST, etc.) -- whatever the IP status is, it doesn't matter because we don't *need* these algorithms. If the IP is so onerous that they aren't ubiquitously deployed, that's their problem, not ours. Note that assumes they'd be MAYs. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGLRJIsTedWZOD3gYRAg+rAJ0XSozj/Q76dTtCH0Pl0aorJ8kztACfdACJ nzFryoLGakVahak7Tf7Sv8w= =mU79 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 17:05:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg5j6-00055Z-1U for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:05:36 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg5j4-0002Iy-L5 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:05:36 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NKq8vZ004216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NKq80W004215; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NKq8tK004209 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D67E6761BB for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:07 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Message-Id: From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:14 -0700 To: OpenPGP X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm replying to this now with my implementer's hat on, rather than spec-writer's hat. I expect that after 2440bis is done, we'll see requests for various national ciphers. I'm okay with it. My customers in Japan would like to see Camillia used. I'm happy to do that for them, especially if I don't have to pay for it. Even if I do have to pay for it, I'm happy to do it for them -- I'll just charge them money for it. Ditto for SEED, GOST, and any other cipher that is secure. I see it as a good thing because the people who don't care about them don't have to implement or use them, and those who do can do as they want. The only potential problem is if you had private keys encrypted with one of these ciphers and you imported those keys into an implementation that didn't have them. I see it as a good thing because S/MIME can use them. I don't want to be so rigid in what goes into OpenPGP that people who want to use OpenPGP but have a desire or need to use one of these other ciphers have to use a different protocol. My products (the PGP family) implement both the OpenPGP and S/MIME standards. It would be a real pity if my Japanese product did Camillia for S/MIME but not for OpenPGP. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGLRx3sTedWZOD3gYRArpnAJ9l2achZPCtAs1zGs2lAj/LDuZyZQCg7XrA PVOOUofZ5gM33hn4RkWkAvo= =OYyf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 17:11:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg5oU-00079P-UA for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:11:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg5oT-00051N-A9 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:11:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NKuIsS004612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:56:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NKuIWc004611; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:56:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from www2.futureware.at ([217.19.43.211]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NKtvVa004588 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:56:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from iang@systemics.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.futureware.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0E124AF74 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:56:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <462D1D5B.5090205@systemics.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:55:55 +0200 From: Ian G User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Jon Callas wrote: > There are not going to be (substantial) changes to 2440bis. We're far > too late for that -- and that's a process comment. We're waiting for > the IESG to decide 2440bis can go out the door. This would be a > substantial change. The 2440bis train has left the station. I > genuinely thought that went without saying, and offer that as my > excuse for not saying it. Concur. Absolute agreement :) But, wasn't the numbering of algorithms something that was taken out of the document on AD request? I must be confused... > However, if someone were to write a document for Camillia in OpenPGP, > that would be a reasonable thing to do -- *after* 2440bis comes out > of the pipe. It is in fact the rough consensus of this group that > that's presently the best way to add algorithms. As we haven't done much to add algorithms, I'd say this is fairly open territory. On the one hand we have plenty of numbers ... On the other hand, we probably want some minimal proof of need. By way of example only, 2 cooperating implementations using an experimental number? The reason I say that is that we would then have 2 groups that would also cooperate to write the specification, rather than one group that asserts "it works for me!" ... > I think the same is true with Camillia (and SEED, GOST, etc.) -- > whatever the IP status is, it doesn't matter because we don't *need* > these algorithms. If the IP is so onerous that they aren't > ubiquitously deployed, that's their problem, not ours. Note that > assumes they'd be MAYs. OK, as long as any algorithms that are patent encumbered are MAYs that would cover my concerns. iang From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 17:51:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg6RB-00056S-Ba for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:51:09 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg6R9-00005X-VI for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:51:09 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NLc8IZ008077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NLc867008076; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foobar.cs.jhu.edu (foobar.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NLblHM008059 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshaw@jabberwocky.com) Received: from walrus.jabberwocky.com (c-75-67-134-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [75.67.134.56]) by foobar.cs.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l3NLbh812311 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:45 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [172.24.84.28]) by walrus.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3NLbddb019069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:39 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3NLbc9r008463 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:39 -0400 Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l3NLbco7008462 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:38 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:38 -0400 From: David Shaw To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Message-ID: <20070423213738.GB8087@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=99242560; url=http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 12:48:12PM -0700, Stephan Somogyi wrote: > It seems to me that commercial OpenPGP developers may well choose > to implement some algorithms that might not be freely usable, but > they will nonetheless want to be good standards citizens and be as > diligent as possible about ensuring that there are neither ID > collisions and that other implementors use the same ID for the same > cipher. Yes. 2440bis specifies a simple way to add new algorithms to OpenPGP. This is the IETF CONSENSUS method as specified in RFC-2434. Boiled down to the bare details, that method is "write it down in an RFC and get the RFC accepted". That's really all that needs to happen to add Camellia or any other cipher, and it's a pretty low bar. I have no objections to adding Camellia. My only concerns are that this is done in a new RFC (2440bis is effectively closed now), and that the new algorithm is not a MUST (for various reasons). I don't see that patent and/or licensing issues (if there are any) really figure into this. The end result is that those who want to implement Camellia will, and those who don't, won't. We already have a cipher preference system to ensure that the two sides can interoperate regardless of the presence or lack of Camellia. David From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 17:59:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg6Zg-0006R4-DB for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:59:56 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg6Ze-0001DQ-12 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:59:56 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NLjTgY008572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:45:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NLjTpl008571; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:45:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foobar.cs.jhu.edu (foobar.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NLjSe5008565 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:45:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshaw@jabberwocky.com) Received: from walrus.jabberwocky.com (c-75-67-134-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [75.67.134.56]) by foobar.cs.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l3NLjR812331 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:27 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [172.24.84.28]) by walrus.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3NLjMDC019122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:22 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3NLjMYN008502 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:22 -0400 Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l3NLjLM8008501 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:21 -0400 From: David Shaw To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: OpenPGP References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=99242560; url=http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 07:59:15PM +0900, Hironobu SUZUKI wrote: > > Hi, > > > That's right, hence the hashing and discarding the first 256 bytes > > from the keystream, as described in my previous post. > > I really appreciate if I could read a paper(s) about analysis of this > technique. http://eprint.iacr.org/2002/067 actually argues for 512 bytes. David From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 18:19:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg6sn-00034Z-B4 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:19:41 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg6sl-0006Mq-VW for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:19:41 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NM6DaA011936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:06:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NM6Dmk011935; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:06:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yancy.b70.net (yancy.pkiclue.com [209.172.115.117]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NM6Cj5011929 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:06:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rodney@canola-jones.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by yancy.b70.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26753 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:07:06 -0700 Message-ID: <462D2DD1.609@canola-jones.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:06:09 -0700 From: Rodney Thayer User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <462D1D5B.5090205@systemics.com> In-Reply-To: <462D1D5B.5090205@systemics.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Ian G wrote: > As we haven't done much to add algorithms, I'd say this is fairly open > territory. ...and it's been handled in various ways by various other groups, sometimes badly... certainly not consistently.... if an AD chair wanted to comment on this that'd be nice. (And, if I'm missing some process that's already there, my apologies.) > On the other hand, we probably want some minimal proof of need. By way > of example only, 2 cooperating implementations using an experimental > number? > > The reason I say that is that we would then have 2 groups that would > also cooperate to write the specification, rather than one group that > asserts "it works for me!" I agree that some level of consensus would be a good thing. I don't know if there's a current way to formalize this in the IETF. In the old days they allegedly required "three genetically separate implementations". I see your idea as being along this line. Some number of implementations GREATER THAN one. From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 19:06:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg7cT-0000TZ-6H for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:06:53 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg7cR-0002DK-Cu for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:06:53 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NMraCD019951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NMraqA019950; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NMrZqk019929 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A77C676CE7 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:35 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:35 -0700 In-Reply-To: <462D2DD1.609@canola-jones.com> References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <462D1D5B.5090205@systemics.com> <462D2DD1.609@canola-jones.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: <896B099A-1FFA-43C3-B210-D3F283478269@callas.org> Cc: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:42 -0700 To: Rodney Thayer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > I agree that some level of consensus would be a good thing. I don't > know if there's a current way to formalize this in the IETF. In the > old days they allegedly required "three genetically separate > implementations". I see your idea as being along this line. Some > number of implementations GREATER THAN one. > If the working group thinks it is a good thing, very little is needed. You need an Internet Draft that says: You MAY implement Camillia. [ref] Cipher number is 11. I picked 11 because it's the next number. And then a lot of boilerplate, and a little bit of kerfuffle. If the [ref] contains test vectors etc., then the kerfuffle is kept to a minimum. To make that draft into a standards-track finished document, you need something like interop proof. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGLTjvsTedWZOD3gYRAjBVAKDXVjzStdC309fUT9t7OiTRjCU/pgCfZFOi QSiS4yrIjN27XpMKFrNshts= =zbqZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 22:46:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgB2m-0004dI-16 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:46:16 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgB2k-0002jw-Lv for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:46:16 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2Viah050276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:31:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O2ViEP050275; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:31:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2VNsr050228 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:31:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgAoN-0002cI-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:31:23 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Simon Josefsson cc: Jon Callas , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:11:49 +0200." <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:31:22 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 > The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base > OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. I intended to avoid ID number confliction. Thank you. --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 23:02:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBIS-0001Wu-2J for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:02:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBIQ-0005tu-ND for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:02:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2mjww053467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O2mj49053466; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2mihI053460 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgB5A-0002hW-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:48:44 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Jon Callas cc: Rodney Thayer , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:42 MST." <896B099A-1FFA-43C3-B210-D3F283478269@callas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:48:44 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 > > You MAY implement Camillia. [ref] > Cipher number is 11. > That's good. You MAY implement Camillia with 256-bit key. [ref] Cipher number is 11. It would be perfect. --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 23 23:07:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBN7-0004uE-RC for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:07:17 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBN6-0006eW-G1 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:07:17 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2rqMK054478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:53:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O2rqL4054477; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:53:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2rplC054470 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:53:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgBA7-0002jx-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:53:51 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Hironobu SUZUKI cc: Jon Callas , Rodney Thayer , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:48:44 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:53:50 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 > > You MAY implement Camellia with 256-bit key. [ref] ^^^^^^^^ > Cipher number is 11. Oops sorry my typo. --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 24 05:07:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgGzO-0004LJ-IO for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:07:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgGzO-0002MQ-5s for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:07:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O8lqXO009649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:47:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O8lqk9009648; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:47:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O8lSgl009617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:47:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3O8lJia021088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:47:21 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Stephan Somogyi Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070424:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::VpudbnOeZ65sWFBM:29Tb X-Hashcash: 1:22:070424:openpgp@lt.gross.net::GK3D7Ej42KeQBQZR:QNkQ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:47:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stephan Somogyi's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 12\:48\:12 -0700") Message-ID: <87lkgiupk8.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Stephan Somogyi writes: > At 19:11 +0200 23.04.2007, Simon Josefsson wrote: > >>The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base >>OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. >> >>Having the reference be informational would be OK, as long as there >>are no requirements to implement it. Only then can implementers that >>wish to conform to the base spec safely ignore Camellia. > > I think there are two separate considerations here, and that you may > be conflating them. > > If I understand it correctly, the original proposal was to define an > ID number for Camellia. I interpret the intent behind this as wanting > to ensure that, should multiple implementors choose to implement it, > they are using the same ID. Similarly, the desire is for no-one else > to use that same ID for a different cipher. > > This to me has nothing at all to do with establishing whether Camellia > is required in a baseline OpenPGP implementation. Oh, if you interpret the request like that, I have no problem at all. I believe registering a number for the Camellia algorithm should happen no matter how many patents there are on it, just to avoid any risk of number conflicts. I read the original request differently, because it proposed to add Camellia as a normative reference. >>Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it >>may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent >>license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. > > But is the ability for a cipher to be used freely a reasonable > criterion to determine suitability for a slot in the ID list? No. But I believe only freely usable ciphers, if at all possible, should be SHOULD or MUST algorithms. > It seems to me that commercial OpenPGP developers may well choose to > implement some algorithms that might not be freely usable, but they > will nonetheless want to be good standards citizens and be as diligent > as possible about ensuring that there are neither ID collisions and > that other implementors use the same ID for the same cipher. Yes. Sometimes this is handled through an IANA registry. >>But >>that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there >>is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a >>informational reference in the OpenPGP document. > > Unless I'm mistaken, all that is needed here is an agreed upon ID > number for the Camellia cipher. Nothing more. Ok. I probably misunderstood the initial request. /Simon From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 24 05:19:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgHBH-0002Sa-Iq for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:19:27 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgHBH-0006OW-2L for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:19:27 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O95PoM011338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O95PFE011337; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O95NWD011328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:05:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3O95HKO026028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:05:18 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Rodney Thayer Cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> <87tzv7udxg.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <462D0B21.6010209@canola-jones.com> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070424:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::wRdobBU+KEK/JsxH:4riY X-Hashcash: 1:22:070424:rodney@canola-jones.com::8tzLCJVybBXt7+wk:kqce Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:05:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: <462D0B21.6010209@canola-jones.com> (Rodney Thayer's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 12\:38\:09 -0700") Message-ID: <87hcr6uoqa.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Rodney Thayer writes: > Simon Josefsson wrote: > >>> So it appears that you don't need a license, somewhat like the situation >>> with IBM and DES. > > I would think you still need to make sure it's > been properly documented with the IETF that there's a patent. > It sounds like that's not quite been done. If people want to > push this (as informational...) then it should have it's act together. > > There have been "submarine patent" issues in the past, especially > in the crypto area, so some people are sensitive about this. I've found some notifications regarding this: IPSEC: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_detail_show.cgi?&ipr_id=771 http://www1.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/mitsubishi-ntt-joint-ipr-disclosure.pdf S/MIME: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_detail_show.cgi?&ipr_id=133 http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/ntt-mitsubishi-ipr-camellia.txt TLS: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_detail_show.cgi?&ipr_id=41 http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/NTT-MITSUBISHI-CAMELLIA I don't know if there is a bug in the IETF IPR search page or in the NTT/Mitsubishi's disclosures which cause the above to not be found when searching for the following RFCs: jas@mocca:~/rfc$ grep -i camellia rfc-index.txt 3657 Use of the Camellia Encryption Algorithm in Cryptographic Message 3713 A Description of the Camellia Encryption Algorithm. M. Matsui, J. 4132 Addition of Camellia Cipher Suites to Transport Layer Security 4312 The Camellia Cipher Algorithm and Its Use With IPsec. A. Kato, S. jas@mocca:~/rfc$ The disclosures appear to only give rights for IPSEC, S/MIME and TLS, respectively. It seems that another disclosure is required to be able to use Camellia in OpenPGP. It may be simpler to grant the right to use Camellia for any use instead... /Simon From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 24 07:45:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgJSp-0000PS-7W for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:45:43 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgJSn-0001d3-Rm for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:45:43 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OBTQO8022883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3OBTQVY022882; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OBT6uF022869 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgJCj-0005FJ-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:29:05 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Simon Josefsson cc: Rodney Thayer , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:05:17 +0200." <87hcr6uoqa.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:29:05 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 > The disclosures appear to only give rights for IPSEC, S/MIME and > TLS, respectively. It seems that another disclosure is required to > be able to use Camellia in OpenPGP. It may be simpler to grant the > right to use Camellia for any use instead... Personally, I don't need anymore such thing because I don't think that they attack to only OpenPGP. ( How could I say such thing in English, overkill?) But, if some disclosure document for OpenPGP is required, I ask it NTT. I estimate that it takes 2 or 3 weeks to get it. I'd like to confirm again. Do we need a disclosure document from NTT/Mitubishi for Camellia in OpenPGP? Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 24 08:22:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgK2o-0001Ci-6d for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:22:54 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgK2m-00080i-R6 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:22:54 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OC87Uq026941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:08:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3OC87o0026940; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:08:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OC86wP026934 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:08:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgJoU-0005So-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:08:06 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Rodney Thayer cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:09 MST." <462D0B21.6010209@canola-jones.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:08:06 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Rodney, > There have been "submarine patent" issues in the past, especially > in the crypto area, so some people are sensitive about this. That's an evil thing. I'm understanding why some people become sensitive. Don't worry, because "submarine patent" is not allowed in Japanese patent law. Both companies are Japanese company. So, we don't need to think about such evil thing. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Apr 24 20:32:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgVRD-0007hj-6g for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:32:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgVRB-0001GF-OQ for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:32:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P0BK1w043166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P0BKGk043165; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org [69.25.196.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P0BJNh043159 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:11:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id C062C49AA; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:11:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Referencs for rfc2440bis Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:54:14 -0400 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Hi folks. I've reviewed the normative and informative references for rfc2440bis and have a few concerns. Some of these were introduced in response to last call comments, but I think the fix may be wrong. First, may I suggest we replace the aes reference with: [AES] NIST, FIPS PUB 197, "Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)," November 2001. http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/fips197/ fips-197.{ps,pdf} RFC 1951 is listed as an informative refernec. However as best I can tell RFC 1951 is normative and needs to be moved to the normative references section. I believe that RFC 2119 and 2434 need to be moved to the normative references section. No I don't know why; it's always done that way. I realize that RFC 1951 is an informational RFC. I'll deal with that. If the authors could make these changes I can bring this to the IESG. I'm sorry for the delay I've introduced. From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Apr 25 04:46:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgd93-0000k5-07 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:46:37 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgd8y-0005xH-JY for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:46:36 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P8RAu2025759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:27:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P8RA5l025757; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:27:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de (flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de [141.51.176.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P8Ql71025686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:27:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stamer@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de) Received: from flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3P8QlfN009475 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:26:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from stamer@localhost) by flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l3P8QhvA009474 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:26:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:26:43 +0200 From: Heiko Stamer To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Hello, On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 05:45:21PM -0400, David Shaw wrote: > > I really appreciate if I could read a paper(s) about analysis of this > > technique. > > http://eprint.iacr.org/2002/067 actually argues for 512 bytes. Please note the following paper [1] by Andreas Klein, which is submitted to Designs, Codes and Cryptography. AFAIK his attack is possible, even if the first bytes of the keystream are discarded. [1] http://cage.ugent.be/~klein/RC4/RC4-en.ps Best regards, -- Heiko Stamer , Fon: +49 561 804-6635 From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Apr 25 05:28:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgdnu-0001KP-Tc for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 05:28:50 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgdnt-0007zR-H0 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 05:28:50 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9DDVo029600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:13:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P9DDRJ029599; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:13:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9Cqg5029549 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:13:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 64C083F80; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:12:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:12:50 +0200 To: Heiko Stamer Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org, rfid-list@cs.elte.hu Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070425091250.GA4158@epointsystem.org> References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Hi, On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 10:26:43AM +0200, Heiko Stamer wrote: > Please note the following paper [1] by Andreas Klein, which is submitted > to Designs, Codes and Cryptography. AFAIK his attack is possible, even if > the first bytes of the keystream are discarded. > > [1] http://cage.ugent.be/~klein/RC4/RC4-en.ps Thank you for the interesting paper. I was not familiar with this particular result, though the weakness it exploits is well known. In order to avoid such problems, I hash the key and the IV. From page 20 of the referenced paper (last paragraph): "An other interesting idea is to compute the session key from the main key and the initialization vector via a hash function [1]. The hashing would avoid ALL ATTACKS (emphasis mine) similar to the FMS-attack or the attacks described in this work." Cheers, -- Daniel From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Apr 25 05:38:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgdxW-0000LQ-HC for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 05:38:46 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgdxU-00044H-2f for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 05:38:46 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9PA4G030505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P9PApb030504; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9OloL030459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:25:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3P9OZaH021757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:24:36 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Heiko Stamer Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070425:stamer@gaos.org::uAkJH9iJm7m6RVsy:5cIN X-Hashcash: 1:22:070425:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::oX2jxcA+ctmq9E6C:TP96 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:24:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> (Heiko Stamer's message of "Wed\, 25 Apr 2007 10\:26\:43 +0200") Message-ID: <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_40, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Heiko Stamer writes: > Hello, > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 05:45:21PM -0400, David Shaw wrote: > >> > I really appreciate if I could read a paper(s) about analysis of this >> > technique. >> >> http://eprint.iacr.org/2002/067 actually argues for 512 bytes. > > Please note the following paper [1] by Andreas Klein, which is submitted > to Designs, Codes and Cryptography. AFAIK his attack is possible, even if > the first bytes of the keystream are discarded. > > [1] http://cage.ugent.be/~klein/RC4/RC4-en.ps The abstract says that the attack works if the initial 256 bytes are discarded, but the conclusion of the paper says that "If one wants to use RC4 he should ...discard the output of the first 12 rounds" (i.e., 12*256 = 3072 bytes). Reserving a number for RC4 in OpenPGP might make sense, but then again, given that it seems unclear how many bytes to discard (which you would have to specify in order to get interoperability), it might be simpler to have people using RC4 continue to use the private numbers. Another idea is to have two OpenPGP number allocation for, say, "RC4-256" and "RC4-3072" which would cover (for RC4-256) discarding 256 bytes, which is used by at least one implementation, and (for RC4-3072) discarding 3072, which is the most conservative thought-to-be-secure mode today. I'd rather just declare RC4 as broken and move on, though. /Simon From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Apr 25 06:07:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgeOu-0000bo-Ci for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:07:04 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgeOt-0006jd-0V for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:07:04 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9mU03032518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P9mUPR032517; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9mTfg032510 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:48:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E2BA53F80; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:48:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:48:28 +0200 To: Simon Josefsson Cc: Heiko Stamer , ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070425094828.GB5913@epointsystem.org> References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 11:24:35AM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote: > I'd rather just declare RC4 as broken and move on, though. RC4, if used correctly, is not broken. Actually, no known attack exists on RC4 with the first two(!) bytes discarded, if the session key is a hash value of the concatenated key and IV. Discarding the first 256 bytes is a safety-belt measure on my part, guarding against yet undiscovered attacks. There are many ways to use RC4 just as there are many ways to use block ciphers. Allowing a stream cipher like RC4 in OpenPGP would be a radical departure from the current policy, but once we do that, the mode of use should be specified to the same detail as the CFB mode for stream ciphers. I have good reasons to believe that my use of RC4 is safe, but then again, it relies on RIPEMD128 for hashing, which is not required by RFC2440. One could use (possibly truncated) SHA1, which is a bit slower, but it makes no real difference. If any other implementor expresses interest in RC4, I am willing to consider switching from RIPEMD128 to SHA1. Cheers, -- Daniel From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Apr 25 06:13:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgeVR-0002TP-Cx for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:13:50 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgeVO-0000Ua-SQ for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:13:49 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9tc0f033026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:55:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P9tcY0033025; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:55:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com (kerckhoffs.g10code.com [217.69.77.222]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9tZ7l033015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:55:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wk@gnupg.org) Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian)) id 1HgeLy-0006UY-ED for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:04:02 +0200 Received: from wk by localhost with local (Exim 4.62 #1 (Debian)) id 1HgeCU-000660-6A; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:54:14 +0200 From: Werner Koch To: Simon Josefsson Cc: Heiko Stamer , ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Organisation: g10 Code GmbH OpenPGP: id=5B0358A2; url=finger:wk@g10code.com Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:54:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> (Simon Josefsson's message of "Wed\, 25 Apr 2007 11\:24\:35 +0200") Message-ID: <87irbk6apl.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:24, simon@josefsson.org said: > Reserving a number for RC4 in OpenPGP might make sense, but then again, > given that it seems unclear how many bytes to discard (which you would ... and how to turn it into a block cipher for our required CFB mode. > I'd rather just declare RC4 as broken and move on, though. Exactly. Salam-Shalom, Werner From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Apr 25 07:05:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgfJW-0000uY-9Q for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:05:34 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgfJS-0002Ak-FZ for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:05:34 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAmVJc039689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PAmVRw039688; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from www2.futureware.at ([217.19.43.211]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAmAo5039559 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from iang@systemics.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.futureware.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B4724B04A; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:48:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <462F31E6.9030202@systemics.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:48:06 +0200 From: Ian G User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Simon Josefsson Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Simon Josefsson wrote: > I'd rather just declare RC4 as broken and move on, though. I'd be much happier there too. But Dani declared a valid use case, and assuming that it "takes off" there is still an issue. Jon's "process email" indicated that if an informational style RFC was written, then that is all that is needed, that covers all the finickety details that surround the best way to use this algorithm. It becomes a MAY algorithm, and everyone is happy. The numbers issue then appears orthogonal to brokenness. However, I'm curious whether there is no other fast stream algorithm that can compete with RC4? RC4 is very old, and there is a conference (FSE?) devoted to this area, surely something has popped out in the last decade or so? iang From poste@sympatico.ca Wed Apr 25 09:45:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hghnr-0005q7-9X for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:03 -0400 Received: from tomts22.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.184] helo=tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hghnp-0002uP-Ue for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:03 -0400 Received: from User ([74.12.79.139]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20070425134500.HREU1767.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@User>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:00 -0400 From: "Poste" Subject: Una nuova gamma completa di servizi online adesso disponibile ! Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:36:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-Id: <20070425134500.HREU1767.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@User> X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17





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From poste@sympatico.ca Wed Apr 25 09:45:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hghnr-0005qB-Aa for openpgp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:03 -0400 Received: from tomts22.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.184] helo=tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hghnp-0002uR-Ue for openpgp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:03 -0400 Received: from User ([74.12.79.139]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20070425134500.HREU1767.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@User>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:00 -0400 From: "Poste" Subject: Una nuova gamma completa di servizi online adesso disponibile ! Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:36:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-Id: <20070425134500.HREU1767.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@User> X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17





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From poste@sympatico.ca Wed Apr 25 09:45:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hghnr-0005qJ-B5 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:03 -0400 Received: from bc.sympatico.ca ([209.226.175.184] helo=tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hghnp-0002uQ-Ue for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:03 -0400 Received: from User ([74.12.79.139]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20070425134500.HREU1767.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@User>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:00 -0400 From: "Poste" Subject: Una nuova gamma completa di servizi online adesso disponibile ! Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:36:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-Id: <20070425134500.HREU1767.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@User> X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17





Caro cliente Poste.it,

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L'Assistenza Clienti, dopo aver ricevuto la documentazione e averne verificato la completezza e la veridicit, provveder immediatamente ad attivare il suo " Nome Utente Verificato ". Verrai informato telefonicamente di tale attivazione.

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From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Apr 25 11:50:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgjku-0004ry-Gj for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:50:08 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgjkt-00025k-2z for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:50:08 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PFUx0P068674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PFUxO4068673; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PFUdD3068651 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608DF680A4C for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.59.139] ([12.118.36.58]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:36 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: <64EC549C-0217-417E-A75B-36CEAE6C599C@callas.org> Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Referencs for rfc2440bis Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:35 -0700 To: Sam Hartman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 24, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Sam Hartman wrote: > > > > Hi folks. > > I've reviewed the normative and informative references for rfc2440bis > and have a few concerns. Some of these were introduced in response to > last call comments, but I think the fix may be wrong. > > First, may I suggest we replace the aes reference with: > > > [AES] NIST, FIPS PUB 197, "Advanced Encryption Standard > (AES)," November 2001. > http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/fips197/ > fips-197.{ps,pdf} > > > > RFC 1951 is listed as an informative refernec. However as best I can > tell RFC 1951 is normative and needs to be moved to the normative > references section. > > > I believe that RFC 2119 and 2434 need to be moved to the normative > references section. No I don't know why; it's always done that way. > > I realize that RFC 1951 is an informational RFC. I'll deal with that. > > If the authors could make these changes I can bring this to the IESG. > I'm sorry for the delay I've introduced. > > I can handle that. Please realize that 1991 and 2434 were moved to informative from normative because the GEN-ART review insisted on it. I'm happy to move them back. It would, however, be nice to -- well, you know. I will submit another draft. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGL3QcsTedWZOD3gYRAjLyAKDlmQMmkVUOHAp1vAK7cfaMAowX8QCgmcmM kOSsUQuTe8n1/adb6Bx8T9k= =ic8z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Apr 25 12:46:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgkd5-0004il-6o for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:46:07 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgkd3-0006YM-Qy for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:46:07 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PGMwtc074079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PGMwL6074078; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PGMvWn074071 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6CB6810A6 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.59.139] ([12.118.36.58]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:57 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:57 -0700 In-Reply-To: <64EC549C-0217-417E-A75B-36CEAE6C599C@callas.org> References: <64EC549C-0217-417E-A75B-36CEAE6C599C@callas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: Cc: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Referencs for rfc2440bis Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:23:02 -0700 To: Sam Hartman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sam, I sent in bis-22. It has your changes and the other IESG changes (change "preferred" to "RECOMMENDED" in section on new/old header types, and formatting error on header of Security Considerations.) Thank you for all your work, Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGL4BhsTedWZOD3gYRAgFsAKCZPO+w5vW8B3NHhR8lBSa6K8//vACg+Jr+ M3+kWHEA+msm/PtQEJ7qBL0= =IQDf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Apr 25 16:05:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnkV-0006xy-RJ for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:05:59 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnkU-0005UX-Cs for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:05:59 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PJoSm8004484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PJoSOb004483; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PJo6Ds004443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC748175EA; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnV4-00079P-Ji; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt Message-Id: Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the An Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : OpenPGP Message Format Author(s) : J. Callas, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt Pages : 85 Date : 2007-4-25 This document is maintained in order to publish all necessary information needed to develop interoperable applications based on the OpenPGP format. It is not a step-by-step cookbook for writing an application. It describes only the format and methods needed to read, check, generate, and write conforming packets crossing any network. It does not deal with storage and implementation questions. It does, however, discuss implementation issues necessary to avoid security flaws. OpenPGP software uses a combination of strong public-key and symmetric cryptography to provide security services for electronic communications and data storage. These services include confidentiality, key management, authentication, and digital signatures. This document specifies the message formats used in OpenPGP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-25122942.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-25122942.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From sognidimare.com@greentreebk.com Thu Apr 26 08:04:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh2hi-0003nk-3u for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:04:06 -0400 Received: from [212.200.29.226] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh2hf-0005qt-F7 for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:04:05 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c787fb$02640980$0100007f@localhost> From: "Charles Jackson" To: Subject: Achieve picture perfect weight and enjoy life Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:04:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C787FB.02640980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 71f780ffdd80c541d3e75aa5f2710d3d X-MimeOLroduced By Mt MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C787FB.02640980 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C787FB.02640980" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C787FB.02640980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Information in attach. http://www.kintard.com/n/ ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C787FB.02640980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi dear baby

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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiYUa-0000eU-Hh for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:12:48 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiYUZ-0006mZ-Sj for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:12:48 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3UFqlga086635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:52:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3UFqlSI086634; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:52:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l3UFqPts086583 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:52:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from s-beyer@gmx.net) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 30 Apr 2007 15:52:24 -0000 Received: from p54B8485C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO leksak.p-netz) [84.184.72.92] by mail.gmx.net (mp044) with SMTP; 30 Apr 2007 17:52:24 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1499303 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19dHdpG9xldKVttPXUNqNtlfoIPh4Dv6Xl9RBd9ff 17IY1FEsSkOvQJ Received: from sbeyer by leksak.p-netz with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HiYAq-0001GZ-62 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:52:24 +0200 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:52:24 +0200 From: Stephan Beyer To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: fingerprint hash material in 12.2. Message-ID: <20070430155224.GA4737@leksak.p-netz> Mail-Followup-To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW" Content-Disposition: inline X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, in section 12.2., the text says, that _the_ two-octet packet length comes after the 0x99 octet. Does that mean, that the public key data may not be larger than 65536 bytes? If so: Is that stated anywhere? And... is this good? Considering permanently growing key sizes or the possible existence of practically useful public key algorithms using (for example) a variable number of integers[1]. So, if there is no 64k limit on public key data, a further question occurs: Is the "two-octet packet length" the packet length modulo 65536?[2] But then, isn't the a.2) high order length octet of (b)-(f) (1 octet) [3] some kind of "second low order length octet"? ;-) Or is (a.2) the "most significant octet of the length" while (a.3) is=20 the "least significant octet"? ;-) I looked what GnuPG does, and - note the first comment - ... -- snip g10/keyid.c -- /* What does it mean if n is greater than than 0xFFFF ? */ md_putc( md, n >> 8 ); /* 2 byte length header */ md_putc( md, n ); -- snap -- =2E..they use the "modulo 65536" variant. ;-) Kind Regards, Stephan Beyer Footnotes: 1. Although it is not considered secure, think of a knapsack-based methods with n integers. 2. By the way, is it correct to say "packet length" when you don't actually mean the length of the packet, but the length of (b)-(e) in the example? ;-) 3. Note, that there is a further mistake: (f) doesn't even exist. The list ends with (e). --=20 Stephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGNhC4bt3SB/zFBA8RAsJTAJ9oaGtXCEKRfTUnKW4umY12KHmvBACfR0iE E0Nx4Ps6bbsbJnrxArjxtek= =iv8S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW-- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 30 16:23:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HicPH-0007pv-UH for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:23:35 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HicPF-00042k-MS for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:23:35 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3UK8Rfi023175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3UK8Rq0023174; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3UK86NH023155 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C0A69B056 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:05 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:05 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20070430155224.GA4737@leksak.p-netz> References: <20070430155224.GA4737@leksak.p-netz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: <0382439B-7137-47FB-8F88-009EC75AF6B7@callas.org> Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: fingerprint hash material in 12.2. Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:16 -0700 To: Stephan Beyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > in section 12.2., the text says, that _the_ two-octet packet length > comes after the 0x99 octet. > > Does that mean, that the public key data may not be larger than 65536 > bytes? > > If so: Is that stated anywhere? > And... is this good? Considering permanently growing key sizes or the > possible existence of practically useful public key algorithms using > (for example) a variable number of integers[1]. > I'm only going to answer parts of your question. This really isn't an issue. Right now, just about everyone uses only 4k public keys. 4k bits is 512 bytes. Even if you need several 4k bit numbers, there's plenty of room. The long-term issue we face is crypto-balance with 256-bit symmetric algorithms. NIST estimates a 15k-bit key to be balanced with AES-256. While plenty of people disagree with that, we all agree that we're not going to crypto-balance RSA with AES. It would be annoying and slow. Long term, we're going to move to elliptic curve, and those keys are smaller. Crypto-balance would be at about 512 bits, and thus it fits in just fine. However, let me just assume that next week someone invents Magic Dingus Encryption, which has the advantage that it is not only ten times faster than ECC, but is proven immune to quantum computers as well as mental telepathy. The downside is that the public keys are 128k bytes in size. In such a case, when we write the RFC for MDE in OpenPGP, we would need to state how you compute the fingerprint of an MDE key in that RFC. That's it. (And as a matter of fact, when we do ECC for OpenPGP, we'll have to specify the ECC parameters for fingerprints in whatever RFC specifies ECC for OpenPGP.) The reason why it specifies in 12.2 the precise length is that in OpenPGP there are often many ways to state a length. Thus, we have to state precisely how to compute the fingerprint, because don't want to end up with a to-may-to/to-mah-to issue in computing fingerprints. That's it. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGNkylsTedWZOD3gYRAg3RAKDlqwSCUouchC0yuhyu7NrJ5BgX2ACbBuVB 1ILHD+9b0e6Uyp12R8BybfE= =ahtF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 30 20:36:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HigMK-0006hL-K3 for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:36:48 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HigMJ-0003jd-8D for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:36:48 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l410EBK0063156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:14:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l410EBTm063155; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:14:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foobar.cs.jhu.edu (foobar.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l410DoZG063074 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:14:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshaw@jabberwocky.com) Received: from walrus.jabberwocky.com (c-75-67-134-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [75.67.134.56]) by foobar.cs.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l410Dk829569 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:48 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [172.24.84.28]) by walrus.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l410DfGm011857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:41 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l410Ddgd020569 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:41 -0400 Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l410Db0u020568 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:37 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:36 -0400 From: David Shaw To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Message-ID: <20070501001336.GA20310@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: OpenPGP References: <896B099A-1FFA-43C3-B210-D3F283478269@callas.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=99242560; url=http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 11:48:44AM +0900, Hironobu SUZUKI wrote: > > > > > > You MAY implement Camillia. [ref] > > Cipher number is 11. > > > > That's good. > > You MAY implement Camillia with 256-bit key. [ref] > Cipher number is 11. > > It would be perfect. If nobody objects, I thought I'd have a crack at putting together a draft for this. I've been meaning to learn the xml2rfc stuff anyway. I notice you're just mentioning Camellia with a 256-bit key, which leaves out the 128 or 192-bit keys. I don't disagree, but I'm curious if that was intentional. 128 is okay, but 192-bit keys in OpenPGP strike me a bit as "neither here nor there" (I argued to keep AES-192, but that had already been deployed in the field). David From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Apr 30 23:27:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hij1x-0006T7-IY for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:27:58 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hij1v-0008E3-6n for openpgp-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:27:57 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l41398tK092785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:09:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l41398Na092784; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:09:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l4138lqV092710 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:09:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HiijM-0004sl-00 for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 12:08:44 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:29:05 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:08:42 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 > But, if some disclosure document for OpenPGP is required, I ask it > NTT. I estimate that it takes 2 or 3 weeks to get it. I contacted to NTT about issuing IPR for OpenPGP WG as well as IPSEC, S/MIME, TLS. They accepted it and IPR for OpenPGP will be issued for a while. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l416c035031645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:38:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l416c01c031644; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:38:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l416bb9F031557 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:37:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HilzV-0005tK-00; Tue, 01 May 2007 15:37:37 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Rodney Thayer cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:27:22 MST." <4636CFBA.2000900@canola-jones.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 15:37:36 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Rodney, > AES-256 is listed in a NIST recommendation. It's not marketing, > it's following NIST guidance. I'm taking about TLS/AES-256, not taking about AES-256. In TLS WG, they tried to adapt only AES-128 and ignored AES-256. First of all, they said "AES-256 is too much". I pushed AES-256 to TLS because it was nice for backup cipher for AES-128 and it was only a chance to adapt 256-bit cipher to TLS. They didn't select AES-256 as by NIST recommendation. They didn't select AES-192 also. They selected AES-256 as "backup for 128bit cipher". That is ture story. At that time, I didn't think that many people use AES-256 because actually, AES-128 was enough. Today, in fact, many people use AES-256. I learn that people tend to use stronger cipher which is prepared for them because they want to feel safer. That is a sort of psycological attitude, not technical attitude. > Not to say that's not debatable but it's not just "marketing" or key > material size obsession. I'm sorry that I confused you by my English capability. I meant a term "marketing" that I said is as "to know what people want to get". I have thought that we should provide a service for people by what people want to do, not by engineer's ego. And I have thought that we should think something practical. To implement Camellia-256 is practical thing more than to implement a set of Camellia-128/256. A set of Camellia-128/256 may be acceptable but a few people will use Camellia-128 because there are other 128-bit ciphers and it's too late to list it up. So, I list only Camellia-256 and I think it is OK for everyone. Also, only Camellia-256 is nothing special because only TWOFISH-256 is listed in OpenPGP cipher. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l415RkGF018871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:27:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l415RkSN018865; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:27:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yancy.b70.net (yancy.pkiclue.com [209.172.115.117]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l415ROub018799 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:27:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rodney@canola-jones.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by yancy.b70.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15965 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:28:32 -0700 Message-ID: <4636CFBA.2000900@canola-jones.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:27:22 -0700 From: Rodney Thayer User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hironobu SUZUKI wrote: > > David, > >> I notice you're just mentioning Camellia with a 256-bit key, which >> leaves out the 128 or 192-bit keys. I don't disagree, but I'm >> curious if that was intentional. > > Yes, intentional. I chose Camellia-256 by the point of view of > marketing. > > I found that may people had selected TLS/AES-256 ciphersuite for their > https when they could use it under their system. AES-256 is listed in a NIST recommendation. It's not marketing, it's following NIST guidance. Not to say that's not debatable but it's not just "marketing" or key material size obsession. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l413ni7E000665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:49:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l413niqT000664; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:49:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l413nh2U000657 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:49:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HijN1-00057w-00; Tue, 01 May 2007 12:49:43 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: David Shaw cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:36 -0400." <20070501001336.GA20310@jabberwocky.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:49:43 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: David, > I notice you're just mentioning Camellia with a 256-bit key, which > leaves out the 128 or 192-bit keys. I don't disagree, but I'm > curious if that was intentional. Yes, intentional. I chose Camellia-256 by the point of view of marketing. I found that may people had selected TLS/AES-256 ciphersuite for their https when they could use it under their system. Many people think "more strong cipher for me". I know that it is overkill for thier security. But most important thing is "to supply what users want to get". And there are many 128-bit ciphers which are already used. People will use a cipher that they used to using. But in 256-bit ciphers, there only two ciphers except Camellia and many people aren't familiar with 256-bit cipher yet. In that situation, it will be easy to accept Camellia-256bit. Camellia-256 is good for surviving cipher war. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l41398tK092785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:09:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l41398Na092784; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:09:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l4138lqV092710 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:09:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HiijM-0004sl-00 for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 12:08:44 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:29:05 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:08:42 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > But, if some disclosure document for OpenPGP is required, I ask it > NTT. I estimate that it takes 2 or 3 weeks to get it. I contacted to NTT about issuing IPR for OpenPGP WG as well as IPSEC, S/MIME, TLS. They accepted it and IPR for OpenPGP will be issued for a while. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l410EBK0063156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:14:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l410EBTm063155; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:14:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foobar.cs.jhu.edu (foobar.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l410DoZG063074 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:14:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshaw@jabberwocky.com) Received: from walrus.jabberwocky.com (c-75-67-134-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [75.67.134.56]) by foobar.cs.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l410Dk829569 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:48 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [172.24.84.28]) by walrus.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l410DfGm011857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:41 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l410Ddgd020569 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:41 -0400 Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l410Db0u020568 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:37 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:13:36 -0400 From: David Shaw To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Message-ID: <20070501001336.GA20310@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: OpenPGP References: <896B099A-1FFA-43C3-B210-D3F283478269@callas.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=99242560; url=http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 11:48:44AM +0900, Hironobu SUZUKI wrote: > > > > > > You MAY implement Camillia. [ref] > > Cipher number is 11. > > > > That's good. > > You MAY implement Camillia with 256-bit key. [ref] > Cipher number is 11. > > It would be perfect. If nobody objects, I thought I'd have a crack at putting together a draft for this. I've been meaning to learn the xml2rfc stuff anyway. I notice you're just mentioning Camellia with a 256-bit key, which leaves out the 128 or 192-bit keys. I don't disagree, but I'm curious if that was intentional. 128 is okay, but 192-bit keys in OpenPGP strike me a bit as "neither here nor there" (I argued to keep AES-192, but that had already been deployed in the field). David Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3UK8Rfi023175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3UK8Rq0023174; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3UK86NH023155 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C0A69B056 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:05 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:05 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20070430155224.GA4737@leksak.p-netz> References: <20070430155224.GA4737@leksak.p-netz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: <0382439B-7137-47FB-8F88-009EC75AF6B7@callas.org> Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: fingerprint hash material in 12.2. Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:08:16 -0700 To: Stephan Beyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > in section 12.2., the text says, that _the_ two-octet packet length > comes after the 0x99 octet. > > Does that mean, that the public key data may not be larger than 65536 > bytes? > > If so: Is that stated anywhere? > And... is this good? Considering permanently growing key sizes or the > possible existence of practically useful public key algorithms using > (for example) a variable number of integers[1]. > I'm only going to answer parts of your question. This really isn't an issue. Right now, just about everyone uses only 4k public keys. 4k bits is 512 bytes. Even if you need several 4k bit numbers, there's plenty of room. The long-term issue we face is crypto-balance with 256-bit symmetric algorithms. NIST estimates a 15k-bit key to be balanced with AES-256. While plenty of people disagree with that, we all agree that we're not going to crypto-balance RSA with AES. It would be annoying and slow. Long term, we're going to move to elliptic curve, and those keys are smaller. Crypto-balance would be at about 512 bits, and thus it fits in just fine. However, let me just assume that next week someone invents Magic Dingus Encryption, which has the advantage that it is not only ten times faster than ECC, but is proven immune to quantum computers as well as mental telepathy. The downside is that the public keys are 128k bytes in size. In such a case, when we write the RFC for MDE in OpenPGP, we would need to state how you compute the fingerprint of an MDE key in that RFC. That's it. (And as a matter of fact, when we do ECC for OpenPGP, we'll have to specify the ECC parameters for fingerprints in whatever RFC specifies ECC for OpenPGP.) The reason why it specifies in 12.2 the precise length is that in OpenPGP there are often many ways to state a length. Thus, we have to state precisely how to compute the fingerprint, because don't want to end up with a to-may-to/to-mah-to issue in computing fingerprints. That's it. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGNkylsTedWZOD3gYRAg3RAKDlqwSCUouchC0yuhyu7NrJ5BgX2ACbBuVB 1ILHD+9b0e6Uyp12R8BybfE= =ahtF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3UFqlga086635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:52:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3UFqlSI086634; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:52:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l3UFqPts086583 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:52:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from s-beyer@gmx.net) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 30 Apr 2007 15:52:24 -0000 Received: from p54B8485C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO leksak.p-netz) [84.184.72.92] by mail.gmx.net (mp044) with SMTP; 30 Apr 2007 17:52:24 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1499303 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19dHdpG9xldKVttPXUNqNtlfoIPh4Dv6Xl9RBd9ff 17IY1FEsSkOvQJ Received: from sbeyer by leksak.p-netz with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HiYAq-0001GZ-62 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:52:24 +0200 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:52:24 +0200 From: Stephan Beyer To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: fingerprint hash material in 12.2. Message-ID: <20070430155224.GA4737@leksak.p-netz> Mail-Followup-To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW" Content-Disposition: inline X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, in section 12.2., the text says, that _the_ two-octet packet length comes after the 0x99 octet. Does that mean, that the public key data may not be larger than 65536 bytes? If so: Is that stated anywhere? And... is this good? Considering permanently growing key sizes or the possible existence of practically useful public key algorithms using (for example) a variable number of integers[1]. So, if there is no 64k limit on public key data, a further question occurs: Is the "two-octet packet length" the packet length modulo 65536?[2] But then, isn't the a.2) high order length octet of (b)-(f) (1 octet) [3] some kind of "second low order length octet"? ;-) Or is (a.2) the "most significant octet of the length" while (a.3) is=20 the "least significant octet"? ;-) I looked what GnuPG does, and - note the first comment - ... -- snip g10/keyid.c -- /* What does it mean if n is greater than than 0xFFFF ? */ md_putc( md, n >> 8 ); /* 2 byte length header */ md_putc( md, n ); -- snap -- =2E..they use the "modulo 65536" variant. ;-) Kind Regards, Stephan Beyer Footnotes: 1. Although it is not considered secure, think of a knapsack-based methods with n integers. 2. By the way, is it correct to say "packet length" when you don't actually mean the length of the packet, but the length of (b)-(e) in the example? ;-) 3. Note, that there is a further mistake: (f) doesn't even exist. The list ends with (e). --=20 Stephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGNhC4bt3SB/zFBA8RAsJTAJ9oaGtXCEKRfTUnKW4umY12KHmvBACfR0iE E0Nx4Ps6bbsbJnrxArjxtek= =iv8S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PJoSm8004484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PJoSOb004483; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PJo6Ds004443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC748175EA; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnV4-00079P-Ji; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt Message-Id: Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the An Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : OpenPGP Message Format Author(s) : J. Callas, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt Pages : 85 Date : 2007-4-25 This document is maintained in order to publish all necessary information needed to develop interoperable applications based on the OpenPGP format. It is not a step-by-step cookbook for writing an application. It describes only the format and methods needed to read, check, generate, and write conforming packets crossing any network. It does not deal with storage and implementation questions. It does, however, discuss implementation issues necessary to avoid security flaws. OpenPGP software uses a combination of strong public-key and symmetric cryptography to provide security services for electronic communications and data storage. These services include confidentiality, key management, authentication, and digital signatures. This document specifies the message formats used in OpenPGP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-25122942.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-22.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-25122942.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PGMwtc074079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PGMwL6074078; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PGMvWn074071 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6CB6810A6 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.59.139] ([12.118.36.58]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:57 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:57 -0700 In-Reply-To: <64EC549C-0217-417E-A75B-36CEAE6C599C@callas.org> References: <64EC549C-0217-417E-A75B-36CEAE6C599C@callas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: Cc: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Referencs for rfc2440bis Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:23:02 -0700 To: Sam Hartman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sam, I sent in bis-22. It has your changes and the other IESG changes (change "preferred" to "RECOMMENDED" in section on new/old header types, and formatting error on header of Security Considerations.) Thank you for all your work, Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGL4BhsTedWZOD3gYRAgFsAKCZPO+w5vW8B3NHhR8lBSa6K8//vACg+Jr+ M3+kWHEA+msm/PtQEJ7qBL0= =IQDf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PFUx0P068674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PFUxO4068673; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PFUdD3068651 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608DF680A4C for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.59.139] ([12.118.36.58]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:36 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: <64EC549C-0217-417E-A75B-36CEAE6C599C@callas.org> Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Referencs for rfc2440bis Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:35 -0700 To: Sam Hartman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 24, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Sam Hartman wrote: > > > > Hi folks. > > I've reviewed the normative and informative references for rfc2440bis > and have a few concerns. Some of these were introduced in response to > last call comments, but I think the fix may be wrong. > > First, may I suggest we replace the aes reference with: > > > [AES] NIST, FIPS PUB 197, "Advanced Encryption Standard > (AES)," November 2001. > http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/fips197/ > fips-197.{ps,pdf} > > > > RFC 1951 is listed as an informative refernec. However as best I can > tell RFC 1951 is normative and needs to be moved to the normative > references section. > > > I believe that RFC 2119 and 2434 need to be moved to the normative > references section. No I don't know why; it's always done that way. > > I realize that RFC 1951 is an informational RFC. I'll deal with that. > > If the authors could make these changes I can bring this to the IESG. > I'm sorry for the delay I've introduced. > > I can handle that. Please realize that 1991 and 2434 were moved to informative from normative because the GEN-ART review insisted on it. I'm happy to move them back. It would, however, be nice to -- well, you know. I will submit another draft. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGL3QcsTedWZOD3gYRAjLyAKDlmQMmkVUOHAp1vAK7cfaMAowX8QCgmcmM kOSsUQuTe8n1/adb6Bx8T9k= =ic8z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAmVJc039689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PAmVRw039688; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from www2.futureware.at ([217.19.43.211]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAmAo5039559 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from iang@systemics.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.futureware.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B4724B04A; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:48:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <462F31E6.9030202@systemics.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:48:06 +0200 From: Ian G User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Simon Josefsson Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Simon Josefsson wrote: > I'd rather just declare RC4 as broken and move on, though. I'd be much happier there too. But Dani declared a valid use case, and assuming that it "takes off" there is still an issue. Jon's "process email" indicated that if an informational style RFC was written, then that is all that is needed, that covers all the finickety details that surround the best way to use this algorithm. It becomes a MAY algorithm, and everyone is happy. The numbers issue then appears orthogonal to brokenness. However, I'm curious whether there is no other fast stream algorithm that can compete with RC4? RC4 is very old, and there is a conference (FSE?) devoted to this area, surely something has popped out in the last decade or so? iang Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9tc0f033026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:55:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P9tcY0033025; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:55:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com (kerckhoffs.g10code.com [217.69.77.222]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9tZ7l033015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:55:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wk@gnupg.org) Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian)) id 1HgeLy-0006UY-ED for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:04:02 +0200 Received: from wk by localhost with local (Exim 4.62 #1 (Debian)) id 1HgeCU-000660-6A; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:54:14 +0200 From: Werner Koch To: Simon Josefsson Cc: Heiko Stamer , ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Organisation: g10 Code GmbH OpenPGP: id=5B0358A2; url=finger:wk@g10code.com Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:54:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> (Simon Josefsson's message of "Wed\, 25 Apr 2007 11\:24\:35 +0200") Message-ID: <87irbk6apl.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:24, simon@josefsson.org said: > Reserving a number for RC4 in OpenPGP might make sense, but then again, > given that it seems unclear how many bytes to discard (which you would ... and how to turn it into a block cipher for our required CFB mode. > I'd rather just declare RC4 as broken and move on, though. Exactly. Salam-Shalom, Werner Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9mU03032518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P9mUPR032517; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9mTfg032510 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:48:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E2BA53F80; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:48:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:48:28 +0200 To: Simon Josefsson Cc: Heiko Stamer , ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070425094828.GB5913@epointsystem.org> References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 11:24:35AM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote: > I'd rather just declare RC4 as broken and move on, though. RC4, if used correctly, is not broken. Actually, no known attack exists on RC4 with the first two(!) bytes discarded, if the session key is a hash value of the concatenated key and IV. Discarding the first 256 bytes is a safety-belt measure on my part, guarding against yet undiscovered attacks. There are many ways to use RC4 just as there are many ways to use block ciphers. Allowing a stream cipher like RC4 in OpenPGP would be a radical departure from the current policy, but once we do that, the mode of use should be specified to the same detail as the CFB mode for stream ciphers. I have good reasons to believe that my use of RC4 is safe, but then again, it relies on RIPEMD128 for hashing, which is not required by RFC2440. One could use (possibly truncated) SHA1, which is a bit slower, but it makes no real difference. If any other implementor expresses interest in RC4, I am willing to consider switching from RIPEMD128 to SHA1. Cheers, -- Daniel Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9PA4G030505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P9PApb030504; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9OloL030459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:25:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3P9OZaH021757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:24:36 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Heiko Stamer Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070425:stamer@gaos.org::uAkJH9iJm7m6RVsy:5cIN X-Hashcash: 1:22:070425:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::oX2jxcA+ctmq9E6C:TP96 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:24:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> (Heiko Stamer's message of "Wed\, 25 Apr 2007 10\:26\:43 +0200") Message-ID: <878xcgbycs.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_40, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Heiko Stamer writes: > Hello, > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 05:45:21PM -0400, David Shaw wrote: > >> > I really appreciate if I could read a paper(s) about analysis of this >> > technique. >> >> http://eprint.iacr.org/2002/067 actually argues for 512 bytes. > > Please note the following paper [1] by Andreas Klein, which is submitted > to Designs, Codes and Cryptography. AFAIK his attack is possible, even if > the first bytes of the keystream are discarded. > > [1] http://cage.ugent.be/~klein/RC4/RC4-en.ps The abstract says that the attack works if the initial 256 bytes are discarded, but the conclusion of the paper says that "If one wants to use RC4 he should ...discard the output of the first 12 rounds" (i.e., 12*256 = 3072 bytes). Reserving a number for RC4 in OpenPGP might make sense, but then again, given that it seems unclear how many bytes to discard (which you would have to specify in order to get interoperability), it might be simpler to have people using RC4 continue to use the private numbers. Another idea is to have two OpenPGP number allocation for, say, "RC4-256" and "RC4-3072" which would cover (for RC4-256) discarding 256 bytes, which is used by at least one implementation, and (for RC4-3072) discarding 3072, which is the most conservative thought-to-be-secure mode today. I'd rather just declare RC4 as broken and move on, though. /Simon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9DDVo029600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:13:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P9DDRJ029599; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:13:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P9Cqg5029549 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:13:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 64C083F80; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:12:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:12:50 +0200 To: Heiko Stamer Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org, rfid-list@cs.elte.hu Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070425091250.GA4158@epointsystem.org> References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi, On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 10:26:43AM +0200, Heiko Stamer wrote: > Please note the following paper [1] by Andreas Klein, which is submitted > to Designs, Codes and Cryptography. AFAIK his attack is possible, even if > the first bytes of the keystream are discarded. > > [1] http://cage.ugent.be/~klein/RC4/RC4-en.ps Thank you for the interesting paper. I was not familiar with this particular result, though the weakness it exploits is well known. In order to avoid such problems, I hash the key and the IV. From page 20 of the referenced paper (last paragraph): "An other interesting idea is to compute the session key from the main key and the initialization vector via a hash function [1]. The hashing would avoid ALL ATTACKS (emphasis mine) similar to the FMS-attack or the attacks described in this work." Cheers, -- Daniel Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P8RAu2025759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:27:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P8RA5l025757; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:27:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de (flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de [141.51.176.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P8Ql71025686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:27:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stamer@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de) Received: from flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3P8QlfN009475 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:26:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from stamer@localhost) by flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l3P8QhvA009474 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:26:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:26:43 +0200 From: Heiko Stamer To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070425082643.GA9467@flower.theory.informatik.uni-kassel.de> References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hello, On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 05:45:21PM -0400, David Shaw wrote: > > I really appreciate if I could read a paper(s) about analysis of this > > technique. > > http://eprint.iacr.org/2002/067 actually argues for 512 bytes. Please note the following paper [1] by Andreas Klein, which is submitted to Designs, Codes and Cryptography. AFAIK his attack is possible, even if the first bytes of the keystream are discarded. [1] http://cage.ugent.be/~klein/RC4/RC4-en.ps Best regards, -- Heiko Stamer , Fon: +49 561 804-6635 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P0BK1w043166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3P0BKGk043165; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org [69.25.196.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3P0BJNh043159 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:11:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id C062C49AA; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:11:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Referencs for rfc2440bis Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:54:14 -0400 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi folks. I've reviewed the normative and informative references for rfc2440bis and have a few concerns. Some of these were introduced in response to last call comments, but I think the fix may be wrong. First, may I suggest we replace the aes reference with: [AES] NIST, FIPS PUB 197, "Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)," November 2001. http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/fips197/ fips-197.{ps,pdf} RFC 1951 is listed as an informative refernec. However as best I can tell RFC 1951 is normative and needs to be moved to the normative references section. I believe that RFC 2119 and 2434 need to be moved to the normative references section. No I don't know why; it's always done that way. I realize that RFC 1951 is an informational RFC. I'll deal with that. If the authors could make these changes I can bring this to the IESG. I'm sorry for the delay I've introduced. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OC87Uq026941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:08:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3OC87o0026940; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:08:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OC86wP026934 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:08:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgJoU-0005So-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:08:06 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Rodney Thayer cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:09 MST." <462D0B21.6010209@canola-jones.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:08:06 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Rodney, > There have been "submarine patent" issues in the past, especially > in the crypto area, so some people are sensitive about this. That's an evil thing. I'm understanding why some people become sensitive. Don't worry, because "submarine patent" is not allowed in Japanese patent law. Both companies are Japanese company. So, we don't need to think about such evil thing. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OBTQO8022883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3OBTQVY022882; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OBT6uF022869 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgJCj-0005FJ-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:29:05 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Simon Josefsson cc: Rodney Thayer , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:05:17 +0200." <87hcr6uoqa.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:29:05 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > The disclosures appear to only give rights for IPSEC, S/MIME and > TLS, respectively. It seems that another disclosure is required to > be able to use Camellia in OpenPGP. It may be simpler to grant the > right to use Camellia for any use instead... Personally, I don't need anymore such thing because I don't think that they attack to only OpenPGP. ( How could I say such thing in English, overkill?) But, if some disclosure document for OpenPGP is required, I ask it NTT. I estimate that it takes 2 or 3 weeks to get it. I'd like to confirm again. Do we need a disclosure document from NTT/Mitubishi for Camellia in OpenPGP? Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O95PoM011338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O95PFE011337; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O95NWD011328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:05:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3O95HKO026028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:05:18 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Rodney Thayer Cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> <87tzv7udxg.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <462D0B21.6010209@canola-jones.com> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070424:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::wRdobBU+KEK/JsxH:4riY X-Hashcash: 1:22:070424:rodney@canola-jones.com::8tzLCJVybBXt7+wk:kqce Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:05:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: <462D0B21.6010209@canola-jones.com> (Rodney Thayer's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 12\:38\:09 -0700") Message-ID: <87hcr6uoqa.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Rodney Thayer writes: > Simon Josefsson wrote: > >>> So it appears that you don't need a license, somewhat like the situation >>> with IBM and DES. > > I would think you still need to make sure it's > been properly documented with the IETF that there's a patent. > It sounds like that's not quite been done. If people want to > push this (as informational...) then it should have it's act together. > > There have been "submarine patent" issues in the past, especially > in the crypto area, so some people are sensitive about this. I've found some notifications regarding this: IPSEC: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_detail_show.cgi?&ipr_id=771 http://www1.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/mitsubishi-ntt-joint-ipr-disclosure.pdf S/MIME: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_detail_show.cgi?&ipr_id=133 http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/ntt-mitsubishi-ipr-camellia.txt TLS: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_detail_show.cgi?&ipr_id=41 http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/NTT-MITSUBISHI-CAMELLIA I don't know if there is a bug in the IETF IPR search page or in the NTT/Mitsubishi's disclosures which cause the above to not be found when searching for the following RFCs: jas@mocca:~/rfc$ grep -i camellia rfc-index.txt 3657 Use of the Camellia Encryption Algorithm in Cryptographic Message 3713 A Description of the Camellia Encryption Algorithm. M. Matsui, J. 4132 Addition of Camellia Cipher Suites to Transport Layer Security 4312 The Camellia Cipher Algorithm and Its Use With IPsec. A. Kato, S. jas@mocca:~/rfc$ The disclosures appear to only give rights for IPSEC, S/MIME and TLS, respectively. It seems that another disclosure is required to be able to use Camellia in OpenPGP. It may be simpler to grant the right to use Camellia for any use instead... /Simon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O8lqXO009649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:47:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O8lqk9009648; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:47:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O8lSgl009617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:47:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3O8lJia021088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:47:21 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Stephan Somogyi Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070424:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::VpudbnOeZ65sWFBM:29Tb X-Hashcash: 1:22:070424:openpgp@lt.gross.net::GK3D7Ej42KeQBQZR:QNkQ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:47:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stephan Somogyi's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 12\:48\:12 -0700") Message-ID: <87lkgiupk8.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Stephan Somogyi writes: > At 19:11 +0200 23.04.2007, Simon Josefsson wrote: > >>The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base >>OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. >> >>Having the reference be informational would be OK, as long as there >>are no requirements to implement it. Only then can implementers that >>wish to conform to the base spec safely ignore Camellia. > > I think there are two separate considerations here, and that you may > be conflating them. > > If I understand it correctly, the original proposal was to define an > ID number for Camellia. I interpret the intent behind this as wanting > to ensure that, should multiple implementors choose to implement it, > they are using the same ID. Similarly, the desire is for no-one else > to use that same ID for a different cipher. > > This to me has nothing at all to do with establishing whether Camellia > is required in a baseline OpenPGP implementation. Oh, if you interpret the request like that, I have no problem at all. I believe registering a number for the Camellia algorithm should happen no matter how many patents there are on it, just to avoid any risk of number conflicts. I read the original request differently, because it proposed to add Camellia as a normative reference. >>Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it >>may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent >>license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. > > But is the ability for a cipher to be used freely a reasonable > criterion to determine suitability for a slot in the ID list? No. But I believe only freely usable ciphers, if at all possible, should be SHOULD or MUST algorithms. > It seems to me that commercial OpenPGP developers may well choose to > implement some algorithms that might not be freely usable, but they > will nonetheless want to be good standards citizens and be as diligent > as possible about ensuring that there are neither ID collisions and > that other implementors use the same ID for the same cipher. Yes. Sometimes this is handled through an IANA registry. >>But >>that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there >>is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a >>informational reference in the OpenPGP document. > > Unless I'm mistaken, all that is needed here is an agreed upon ID > number for the Camellia cipher. Nothing more. Ok. I probably misunderstood the initial request. /Simon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2rqMK054478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:53:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O2rqL4054477; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:53:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2rplC054470 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:53:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgBA7-0002jx-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:53:51 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Hironobu SUZUKI cc: Jon Callas , Rodney Thayer , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:48:44 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:53:50 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > > You MAY implement Camellia with 256-bit key. [ref] ^^^^^^^^ > Cipher number is 11. Oops sorry my typo. --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2mjww053467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O2mj49053466; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2mihI053460 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgB5A-0002hW-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:48:44 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Jon Callas cc: Rodney Thayer , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:42 MST." <896B099A-1FFA-43C3-B210-D3F283478269@callas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:48:44 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > > You MAY implement Camillia. [ref] > Cipher number is 11. > That's good. You MAY implement Camillia with 256-bit key. [ref] Cipher number is 11. It would be perfect. --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2Viah050276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:31:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3O2ViEP050275; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:31:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3O2VNsr050228 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:31:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HgAoN-0002cI-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:31:23 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Simon Josefsson cc: Jon Callas , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:11:49 +0200." <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:31:22 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base > OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. I intended to avoid ID number confliction. Thank you. --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NMraCD019951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NMraqA019950; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NMrZqk019929 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A77C676CE7 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:35 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:35 -0700 In-Reply-To: <462D2DD1.609@canola-jones.com> References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <462D1D5B.5090205@systemics.com> <462D2DD1.609@canola-jones.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: <896B099A-1FFA-43C3-B210-D3F283478269@callas.org> Cc: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:42 -0700 To: Rodney Thayer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > I agree that some level of consensus would be a good thing. I don't > know if there's a current way to formalize this in the IETF. In the > old days they allegedly required "three genetically separate > implementations". I see your idea as being along this line. Some > number of implementations GREATER THAN one. > If the working group thinks it is a good thing, very little is needed. You need an Internet Draft that says: You MAY implement Camillia. [ref] Cipher number is 11. I picked 11 because it's the next number. And then a lot of boilerplate, and a little bit of kerfuffle. If the [ref] contains test vectors etc., then the kerfuffle is kept to a minimum. To make that draft into a standards-track finished document, you need something like interop proof. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGLTjvsTedWZOD3gYRAjBVAKDXVjzStdC309fUT9t7OiTRjCU/pgCfZFOi QSiS4yrIjN27XpMKFrNshts= =zbqZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NM6DaA011936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:06:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NM6Dmk011935; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:06:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yancy.b70.net (yancy.pkiclue.com [209.172.115.117]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NM6Cj5011929 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:06:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rodney@canola-jones.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by yancy.b70.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26753 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:07:06 -0700 Message-ID: <462D2DD1.609@canola-jones.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:06:09 -0700 From: Rodney Thayer User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <462D1D5B.5090205@systemics.com> In-Reply-To: <462D1D5B.5090205@systemics.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Ian G wrote: > As we haven't done much to add algorithms, I'd say this is fairly open > territory. ...and it's been handled in various ways by various other groups, sometimes badly... certainly not consistently.... if an AD chair wanted to comment on this that'd be nice. (And, if I'm missing some process that's already there, my apologies.) > On the other hand, we probably want some minimal proof of need. By way > of example only, 2 cooperating implementations using an experimental > number? > > The reason I say that is that we would then have 2 groups that would > also cooperate to write the specification, rather than one group that > asserts "it works for me!" I agree that some level of consensus would be a good thing. I don't know if there's a current way to formalize this in the IETF. In the old days they allegedly required "three genetically separate implementations". I see your idea as being along this line. Some number of implementations GREATER THAN one. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NLjTgY008572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:45:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NLjTpl008571; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:45:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foobar.cs.jhu.edu (foobar.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NLjSe5008565 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:45:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshaw@jabberwocky.com) Received: from walrus.jabberwocky.com (c-75-67-134-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [75.67.134.56]) by foobar.cs.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l3NLjR812331 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:27 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [172.24.84.28]) by walrus.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3NLjMDC019122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:22 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3NLjMYN008502 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:22 -0400 Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l3NLjLM8008501 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:21 -0400 From: David Shaw To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070423214521.GC8087@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: OpenPGP References: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=99242560; url=http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 07:59:15PM +0900, Hironobu SUZUKI wrote: > > Hi, > > > That's right, hence the hashing and discarding the first 256 bytes > > from the keystream, as described in my previous post. > > I really appreciate if I could read a paper(s) about analysis of this > technique. http://eprint.iacr.org/2002/067 actually argues for 512 bytes. David Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NLc8IZ008077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NLc867008076; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foobar.cs.jhu.edu (foobar.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NLblHM008059 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshaw@jabberwocky.com) Received: from walrus.jabberwocky.com (c-75-67-134-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [75.67.134.56]) by foobar.cs.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l3NLbh812311 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:45 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [172.24.84.28]) by walrus.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3NLbddb019069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:39 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3NLbc9r008463 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:39 -0400 Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l3NLbco7008462 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:38 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:37:38 -0400 From: David Shaw To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Message-ID: <20070423213738.GB8087@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=99242560; url=http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 12:48:12PM -0700, Stephan Somogyi wrote: > It seems to me that commercial OpenPGP developers may well choose > to implement some algorithms that might not be freely usable, but > they will nonetheless want to be good standards citizens and be as > diligent as possible about ensuring that there are neither ID > collisions and that other implementors use the same ID for the same > cipher. Yes. 2440bis specifies a simple way to add new algorithms to OpenPGP. This is the IETF CONSENSUS method as specified in RFC-2434. Boiled down to the bare details, that method is "write it down in an RFC and get the RFC accepted". That's really all that needs to happen to add Camellia or any other cipher, and it's a pretty low bar. I have no objections to adding Camellia. My only concerns are that this is done in a new RFC (2440bis is effectively closed now), and that the new algorithm is not a MUST (for various reasons). I don't see that patent and/or licensing issues (if there are any) really figure into this. The end result is that those who want to implement Camellia will, and those who don't, won't. We already have a cipher preference system to ensure that the two sides can interoperate regardless of the presence or lack of Camellia. David Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NKuIsS004612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:56:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NKuIWc004611; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:56:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from www2.futureware.at ([217.19.43.211]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NKtvVa004588 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:56:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from iang@systemics.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.futureware.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0E124AF74 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:56:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <462D1D5B.5090205@systemics.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:55:55 +0200 From: Ian G User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Jon Callas wrote: > There are not going to be (substantial) changes to 2440bis. We're far > too late for that -- and that's a process comment. We're waiting for > the IESG to decide 2440bis can go out the door. This would be a > substantial change. The 2440bis train has left the station. I > genuinely thought that went without saying, and offer that as my > excuse for not saying it. Concur. Absolute agreement :) But, wasn't the numbering of algorithms something that was taken out of the document on AD request? I must be confused... > However, if someone were to write a document for Camillia in OpenPGP, > that would be a reasonable thing to do -- *after* 2440bis comes out > of the pipe. It is in fact the rough consensus of this group that > that's presently the best way to add algorithms. As we haven't done much to add algorithms, I'd say this is fairly open territory. On the one hand we have plenty of numbers ... On the other hand, we probably want some minimal proof of need. By way of example only, 2 cooperating implementations using an experimental number? The reason I say that is that we would then have 2 groups that would also cooperate to write the specification, rather than one group that asserts "it works for me!" ... > I think the same is true with Camillia (and SEED, GOST, etc.) -- > whatever the IP status is, it doesn't matter because we don't *need* > these algorithms. If the IP is so onerous that they aren't > ubiquitously deployed, that's their problem, not ours. Note that > assumes they'd be MAYs. OK, as long as any algorithms that are patent encumbered are MAYs that would cover my concerns. iang Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NKq8vZ004216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NKq80W004215; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NKq8tK004209 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D67E6761BB for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:07 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Message-Id: From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:14 -0700 To: OpenPGP X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm replying to this now with my implementer's hat on, rather than spec-writer's hat. I expect that after 2440bis is done, we'll see requests for various national ciphers. I'm okay with it. My customers in Japan would like to see Camillia used. I'm happy to do that for them, especially if I don't have to pay for it. Even if I do have to pay for it, I'm happy to do it for them -- I'll just charge them money for it. Ditto for SEED, GOST, and any other cipher that is secure. I see it as a good thing because the people who don't care about them don't have to implement or use them, and those who do can do as they want. The only potential problem is if you had private keys encrypted with one of these ciphers and you imported those keys into an implementation that didn't have them. I see it as a good thing because S/MIME can use them. I don't want to be so rigid in what goes into OpenPGP that people who want to use OpenPGP but have a desire or need to use one of these other ciphers have to use a different protocol. My products (the PGP family) implement both the OpenPGP and S/MIME standards. It would be a real pity if my Japanese product did Camillia for S/MIME but not for OpenPGP. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGLRx3sTedWZOD3gYRArpnAJ9l2achZPCtAs1zGs2lAj/LDuZyZQCg7XrA PVOOUofZ5gM33hn4RkWkAvo= =OYyf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NK91cB097683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:09:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NK91ft097682; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:09:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NK8eRZ097626 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:09:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B12675AC5 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:08:40 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:08:40 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: Cc: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:08:45 -0700 To: Simon Josefsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 23, 2007, at 10:11 AM, Simon Josefsson wrote: > Jon Callas writes: > >> Personally, I don't think that Camellia's (or any other symmetric >> cipher's) patent status matters for us. An implementer can safely >> ignore an algorithm with little impact. > > The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base > OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. > > Having the reference be informational would be OK, as long as there > are no requirements to implement it. Only then can implementers that > wish to conform to the base spec safely ignore Camellia. > > Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it > may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent > license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But > that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there > is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a > informational reference in the OpenPGP document. There are not going to be (substantial) changes to 2440bis. We're far too late for that -- and that's a process comment. We're waiting for the IESG to decide 2440bis can go out the door. This would be a substantial change. The 2440bis train has left the station. I genuinely thought that went without saying, and offer that as my excuse for not saying it. However, if someone were to write a document for Camillia in OpenPGP, that would be a reasonable thing to do -- *after* 2440bis comes out of the pipe. It is in fact the rough consensus of this group that that's presently the best way to add algorithms. "Normative" and "informational" aren't precisely the right terms, but I know what you mean. I think you meant to say "mandatory-to- implement" (or MUST) versus "optional-to-implement" (or MAY). I agree with you completely that making Camillia a MUST would not be good, but I didn't read it. Perhaps I just assume that any new algorithm would be a MAY. Certainly I interpreted this request this way. The reason I think that patents aren't an issue is that we have two algorithms that were problematically patented, and still have one. They are IDEA and RSA. If you remember, there were OpenPGP implementations that did not implement RSA until the patent expired, and some that were a bit schizo about it. IDEA is still problematic from an intellectual property standpoint, but there's an easy way around it, which is just don't implement it. Since compatibility with PGP 2 is now deprecated, there's no need to implement IDEA, and so the patent on it only hurts IDEA. I think the same is true with Camillia (and SEED, GOST, etc.) -- whatever the IP status is, it doesn't matter because we don't *need* these algorithms. If the IP is so onerous that they aren't ubiquitously deployed, that's their problem, not ours. Note that assumes they'd be MAYs. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGLRJIsTedWZOD3gYRAg+rAJ0XSozj/Q76dTtCH0Pl0aorJ8kztACfdACJ nzFryoLGakVahak7Tf7Sv8w= =mU79 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NJmcPm094546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NJmcpj094545; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from klein.gross.net (badtz-maru.gross.net [131.161.254.66]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NJmHsT094490 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from list@gross.net) Received: from [192.168.11.118] (127.0.0.1) by klein.gross.net with ESMTP (EIMS X 3.3.1b2) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:12 -0700 To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Stephan Somogyi Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: At 19:11 +0200 23.04.2007, Simon Josefsson wrote: >The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base >OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. > >Having the reference be informational would be OK, as long as there >are no requirements to implement it. Only then can implementers that >wish to conform to the base spec safely ignore Camellia. I think there are two separate considerations here, and that you may be conflating them. If I understand it correctly, the original proposal was to define an ID number for Camellia. I interpret the intent behind this as wanting to ensure that, should multiple implementors choose to implement it, they are using the same ID. Similarly, the desire is for no-one else to use that same ID for a different cipher. This to me has nothing at all to do with establishing whether Camellia is required in a baseline OpenPGP implementation. >Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it >may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent >license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But is the ability for a cipher to be used freely a reasonable criterion to determine suitability for a slot in the ID list? It seems to me that commercial OpenPGP developers may well choose to implement some algorithms that might not be freely usable, but they will nonetheless want to be good standards citizens and be as diligent as possible about ensuring that there are neither ID collisions and that other implementors use the same ID for the same cipher. >But >that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there >is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a >informational reference in the OpenPGP document. Unless I'm mistaken, all that is needed here is an agreed upon ID number for the Camellia cipher. Nothing more. s. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NJcXMo093176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NJcXLj093175; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yancy.b70.net (yancy.pkiclue.com [209.172.115.117]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NJcC6B093127 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rodney@canola-jones.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by yancy.b70.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26105 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:39:05 -0700 Message-ID: <462D0B21.6010209@canola-jones.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:38:09 -0700 From: Rodney Thayer User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> <87tzv7udxg.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: <87tzv7udxg.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Simon Josefsson wrote: >> So it appears that you don't need a license, somewhat like the situation >> with IBM and DES. I would think you still need to make sure it's been properly documented with the IETF that there's a patent. It sounds like that's not quite been done. If people want to push this (as informational...) then it should have it's act together. There have been "submarine patent" issues in the past, especially in the crypto area, so some people are sensitive about this. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIkZtm086186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NIkZ87086185; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIkX2g086170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:46:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3NIkJLR028314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:46:20 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Mike Markowitz Cc: Jon Callas , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::8f0XNO6zZeFz6xY1:1H6R X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:jon@callas.org::Upu+QVy1UsG4HNHy:3sbR X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:markowitz@infoseccorp.com::ggSBY0ccfo+nbw8A:DEri Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:46:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> (Mike Markowitz's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 13\:33\:00 -0500") Message-ID: <87tzv7udxg.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Mike Markowitz writes: > At 12:11 PM 4/23/2007, Simon Josefsson wrote: > >>Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it >>may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent >>license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But >>that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there >>is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a >>informational reference in the OpenPGP document. > > In this regard it might be worth noting this: > > http://www.ntt.co.jp/news/news06e/0604/060413a.html > > "Hereafter, however, in accordance with an agreement between NTT and > Mitsubishi, > Camellia essential patents can be used at no charge by any Camellia > user without > concluding such royalty-free licensing agreement hereafter." > > So it appears that you don't need a license, somewhat like the situation > with IBM and DES. Nice! Is there a real patent license available, rather than news items? I think that before asking a lawyer to evaluate whether the license is sufficient, I need something that at least looks like a license instead of a news article. It seems possible that this concern can be resolved, either by someone finding an already existing real license from NTT/Mitsubishi, or if they write a new license text based on the ideas expressed on their web pages already. If that happens, I think it would actually be a good idea for OpenPGP to have a normative reference to Camellia! /Simon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIXtp4084008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NIXt4c084007; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.infoseccorp.com (mail.infoseccorp.com [12.2.121.3]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIXYQQ083934 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from markowitz@infoseccorp.com) X-AuthUser: mjm@infoseccorp.com Received: from mjmdt.infoseccorp.com ([127.0.0.1]:33119) by infoseccorp.com with [XMail 1.21 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:24:55 -0500 Received: from 192.168.0.65 ([192.168.0.65] helo=mjmdt.infoseccorp.com) by ASSP-nospam; 23 Apr 2007 13:24:55 -0500 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070423132941.04640948@infoseccorp.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:33:00 -0500 To: Simon Josefsson From: Mike Markowitz Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Cc: Jon Callas , OpenPGP In-Reply-To: <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3CDF7EC Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: At 12:11 PM 4/23/2007, Simon Josefsson wrote: >Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it >may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent >license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But >that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there >is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a >informational reference in the OpenPGP document. In this regard it might be worth noting this: http://www.ntt.co.jp/news/news06e/0604/060413a.html "Hereafter, however, in accordance with an agreement between NTT and Mitsubishi, Camellia essential patents can be used at no charge by any Camellia user without concluding such royalty-free licensing agreement hereafter." So it appears that you don't need a license, somewhat like the situation with IBM and DES. -mjm Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NHCP6C070967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:12:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NHCPUT070966; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:12:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NHC2wM070918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:12:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3NHBoMR006549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:11:50 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Jon Callas Cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:jon@callas.org::1PLYxfCUW4tumPoi:Bdqf X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::5RXrCSr79/3kIMLW:SLBs Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:11:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> (Jon Callas's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 09\:38\:15 -0700") Message-ID: <87647nxbfu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Jon Callas writes: > Personally, I don't think that Camellia's (or any other symmetric > cipher's) patent status matters for us. An implementer can safely > ignore an algorithm with little impact. The proposal was to make Camellia a normative reference in the base OpenPGP document. I see a problem with that. Having the reference be informational would be OK, as long as there are no requirements to implement it. Only then can implementers that wish to conform to the base spec safely ignore Camellia. Given what people have said about NTT's intentions in this area, it may be worthwhile to pursue and ask them to provide a better patent license that would guarantee that Camellia can be used freely. But that is a separate problem, and not related to OpenPGP. Until there is a good license available, I would be against anything more than a informational reference in the OpenPGP document. /Simon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NGcTUM065925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NGcTbZ065924; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NGc8lm065889 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA259674049 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.93.68.165] ([66.93.68.165]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:08 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <43E30E34-3C60-43F9-A084-0E6B1725ECD1@callas.org> From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:38:15 -0700 To: OpenPGP X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Personally, I don't think that Camellia's (or any other symmetric cipher's) patent status matters for us. An implementer can safely ignore an algorithm with little impact. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.1 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGLODvsTedWZOD3gYRAhXeAJ0bkrztOfFFujcvw4aZS7zfJTc0VgCfXr13 XVCcvBx7lSwmEqbTXOgoaxo= =NhsU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NFeTQt058577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:40:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NFeTE2058576; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:40:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NFeSHX058568 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:40:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1Hg0eS-0007uv-00; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:40:28 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Florian Weimer cc: Hironobu SUZUKI , Ian G , Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:14:31 +0200." <87zm4zunqg.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:40:27 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > Nowadays, AT&T patents are used in active, non-defensive > litigation. The problem is that companies change much faster than > deployments these days. US's pro-patent policy has been corrupted the world. US companies descended Japanese companies many times by this policy. Nowaday, Japanses company behave overreacting protection in patents. That's true ;-< I don't understand why so many people ignore GPL/BSD license source code by patenter of Camellia. It is same situation of some device drivers in Linx kernel. What's different? Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NFF97Y056318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:15:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NFF9O9056317; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:15:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.enyo.de (mail.enyo.de [212.9.189.167]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NFEkMi056249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:15:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fw@deneb.enyo.de) Received: from deneb.vpn.enyo.de ([212.9.189.177] helo=deneb.enyo.de) by mail.enyo.de with esmtp id 1Hg0FQ-0005q4-Um; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:14:37 +0200 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hg0FM-0003b0-0b; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:14:32 +0200 From: Florian Weimer To: Hironobu SUZUKI Cc: Ian G , Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:14:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Hironobu SUZUKI's message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:12:01 +0900") Message-ID: <87zm4zunqg.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: * Hironobu SUZUKI: > NTT is huge telephone company as well as old-"AT&T". There are only > one NTT's concerning thing that they protect themself. Nowadays, AT&T patents are used in active, non-defensive litigation. The problem is that companies change much faster than deployments these days. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NELQvd051762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:21:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NELQHJ051761; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:21:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NELP5p051754 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:21:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfzPx-0007TV-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:21:25 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Hironobu SUZUKI cc: Ian G , Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:12:01 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:21:25 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > At the last of the 5th International GPLv3 Conference at Tokyo, > Kanda-san who is a project leader of Camellia in NTT spoke about NTT > and Camellia team's contribution/efforts to FLOSS community. Oops, sorry. URLs are below; 5th International GPLv3 Conference web site URL http://gplv3.fsij.org/ Masayuki Kanda's presentation http://gplv3.fsij.org/trac.cgi/attachment/wiki/Japanese/gpl20061122_v0.pdf?format=raw --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NECN2B050748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:12:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NECNAm050747; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:12:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NEC2kV050726 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:12:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfzGs-0007Qj-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:12:02 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Ian G cc: Hironobu SUZUKI , Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:51:22 +0200." <462C9DBA.4000905@systemics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:12:01 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > > Hmmm... I think we would need a patent lawyer to opine on > what the ramifications are. Patent law is full of all sorts > of tricks and turns, it isn't like "ordinary" law where you > can use common sense. Yes, I know it, JPEG, GIF, SCO things ... sigh, that's American way ;-< > The problem is that if we start using this algorithm, and it becomes > popular, then NTT can change their minds and start to go after > people. NTT don't need to that as well as IBM don't need to that. NTT is huge telephone company as well as old-"AT&T". There are only one NTT's concerning thing that they protect themself. I think their motivation is "standardization", not for sale patents. NTT is #1 hardware buyer in Japan. They buy equipments multi-billion dollars in every year. Another patenter of Camellia is Mitsubishi Electric Corporation. Mitsubishi supplies security and military systems to the goverment of Japan. Fair "standardization", I mean not only American way but also more neutral way of standardization, is required for it. AES is defined as FIPS (Federal Information blah, blah, blah), essentially no international standard. There is a some risk when US start to export restriction. They need to make risk hedge by their own way. They push Camellia to ISO and it become ISO/IEC18033. They submited it NESSIE in EU and CRYPTREC in Japan. RFCs also. This tactics inherits from KASUMI by Mitsubshi for 3GPP cipher. That's my opinion. So, please let me know what we should get from NTT? Fair use statement? (Sorry, I don't know what it is ;-) If you show something that we need to get, I'll try to find it. > The licence to the source code is orthogonal to the patent > situation. The source code is not the invention. That it correct. Potentially, that problem exists not only Camellia code but also any code that we wrote. > To some extent, they tried to address this issue in GPL v3, I have > no idea how successfully... I think they are easy to move from GPLv2 to GPLv3 when GPLv3 is appeared because they have nothing to lose about it. And it will be clear what they want to do. At the last of the 5th International GPLv3 Conference at Tokyo, Kanda-san who is a project leader of Camellia in NTT spoke about NTT and Camellia team's contribution/efforts to FLOSS community. If you want to know about what he talked, I'd like to ask Kanda-san that he talk it again at rump session of CRYPTO2008. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NBpl5w036347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NBplBQ036346; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from www2.futureware.at ([217.19.43.211]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NBpQkg036315 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:51:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from iang@systemics.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.futureware.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A6DA24AD9C; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:51:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <462C9DBA.4000905@systemics.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:51:22 +0200 From: Ian G User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hironobu SUZUKI Cc: Simon Josefsson , OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hironobu SUZUKI wrote: > >> The license (if one can speak of a license at all, the page is not >> clear that it is a license agreement) do not appear to be perpetual, >> and it seem to restrict implementation to be unmodified Camellia. > > I guess their intention is to protect their hardware version of > Camellia implementation because they build not only software version > but also hardware version of Camellia. > > As far as I know, Japanese version of patent law is very limited on > Software. It is very different from US patent law situation. NTT is > a Japanese company and NTT speaks in Japanese context. Hmmm... I think we would need a patent lawyer to opine on what the ramifications are. Patent law is full of all sorts of tricks and turns, it isn't like "ordinary" law where you can use common sense. I personally would be skeptical. Unless there is a clear and open licence for anyone to use that algorithm, then saying it is patented is probably the best description. The problem is that if we start using this algorithm, and it becomes popular, then NTT can change their minds and start to go after people. Unless they have granted a clear perpetual licence, this is something that is hard to protect against. The guys at NTT may be really nice guys, but they may not be there in 10 years time. The problems that were had with IDEA seem to point us to non-patented algorithms, simply because it is more certain. > We can get GPL, BSD License and others version of Camellia source code > that are provided by NTT that is Camellia's patenter. This Camellia > code is well tuned up and runs very fast. It is not sort of sample > code. > > http://info.isl.ntt.co.jp/crypt/eng/camellia/source.html > > If we can NOT use, copy, modify, and redistribute it, that is a sort > of license violation against GPL by the original licenser. I believe > NTT knows what GPL is. The licence to the source code is orthogonal to the patent situation. The source code is not the invention. To some extent, they tried to address this issue in GPL v3, I have no idea how successfully... iang Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NAxGXN030777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:59:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NAxGA4030776; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:59:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NAxFkH030768 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:59:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfwGJ-00064F-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:59:15 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) cc: Hironobu SUZUKI , OpenPGP Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:52:20 +0200." <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:59:15 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi, > That's right, hence the hashing and discarding the first 256 bytes > from the keystream, as described in my previous post. I really appreciate if I could read a paper(s) about analysis of this technique. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NApa4w030422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:51:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NApaXf030421; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:51:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NApZ1G030414 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:51:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1Hfw8t-000625-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:51:35 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: Simon Josefsson cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:00 +0200." <87tzv71lmb.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:51:34 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > The license (if one can speak of a license at all, the page is not > clear that it is a license agreement) do not appear to be perpetual, > and it seem to restrict implementation to be unmodified Camellia. I guess their intention is to protect their hardware version of Camellia implementation because they build not only software version but also hardware version of Camellia. As far as I know, Japanese version of patent law is very limited on Software. It is very different from US patent law situation. NTT is a Japanese company and NTT speaks in Japanese context. We can get GPL, BSD License and others version of Camellia source code that are provided by NTT that is Camellia's patenter. This Camellia code is well tuned up and runs very fast. It is not sort of sample code. http://info.isl.ntt.co.jp/crypt/eng/camellia/source.html If we can NOT use, copy, modify, and redistribute it, that is a sort of license violation against GPL by the original licenser. I believe NTT knows what GPL is. Regards, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N9qQmH024594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:52:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N9qQUG024593; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:52:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N9qPHD024577 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:52:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 582873F80; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:52:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:52:20 +0200 To: Hironobu SUZUKI Cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070423095220.GA28612@epointsystem.org> References: <20070423083039.GA21202@epointsystem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 06:01:56PM +0900, Hironobu SUZUKI wrote: >=20 > Hi, RC4 is well-known as an insecure cipher algorithm today.=20 It has known weaknesses, but I would not call it insecure. It must be used with care, but it can still be relied upon if attention is paid to details. > I hope > that you read some papers about RC4 that are linked this web site. >=20 > http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~itsik/RC4/rc4.html Yes, of course. > Especially, I recommend you read this paper. >=20 > Weaknesses in the Key Scheduling Algorithm of RC4, Fluhrer, Mantin > and Shamir, SAC 2001 That's right, hence the hashing and discarding the first 256 bytes from the keystream, as described in my previous post. Regards, --=20 Daniel --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iQDVAwUBRiyB066pEulQFnIMAQJJIgX+JvQl1xon+QygmPpZA1Gxdp3z5Ibj4Egz Sq6GfZwe0MS9EfWXErIem2Cb4SzMVRlJQfGIn1J4IqkP8kzLgajKtnaDR+x4knk8 sVOwRtcnbXYyYBKcE9eOLn6mOMnq1JmcBhTk/qu8O/7EE3Vq+eHQYM4IrNn0DVzn MsmlGewFb8IB0SGvUtiTMu4n/08L2ECksK/D71laCG/UlpINGWYbiJO1zdtshd6L r8sC7PcMSBDsGCHPmA5lzlftQOlAaheL =KIYp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N9XZEW022930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N9XZP1022929; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N9XCec022887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l3N9X0a0019193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:00 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: OpenPGP Subject: Re: Camellia for OpenPGP References: OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::1g5GZ6+s0yvciH0M:2dGW X-Hashcash: 1:22:070423:hironobu@h2np.net::kg+cj/Rz7Ozi0DP7:9uC7 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Hironobu SUZUKI's message of "Mon\, 23 Apr 2007 14\:42\:20 +0900") Message-ID: <87tzv71lmb.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hironobu SUZUKI writes: > Hi. I'd like to propose a new id number of symmetric key algorithms > for Camellia that is known as RFC3657. The WG should be aware that Camellia is patented. An announcement related to this exists: http://www.ntt.co.jp/news/news01e/0104/010417.html The license (if one can speak of a license at all, the page is not clear that it is a license agreement) do not appear to be perpetual, and it seem to restrict implementation to be unmodified Camellia. The IETF IPR page do not seem to contain anything related to RFC 3657, RFC 3713, or RFC 4132 which seems to be a mistake. Unless someone can tell me more about why this is the case, I'll send a third-party notification shortly. /Simon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N92IvF020166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:02:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N92IO8020165; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:02:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N91vTF020114 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:02:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfuQn-0005W0-00; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:01:57 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) cc: OpenPGP Subject: Re: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:30:39 +0200." <20070423083039.GA21202@epointsystem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:01:56 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi, RC4 is well-known as an insecure cipher algorithm today. I hope that you read some papers about RC4 that are linked this web site. http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~itsik/RC4/rc4.html Especially, I recommend you read this paper. Weaknesses in the Key Scheduling Algorithm of RC4, Fluhrer, Mantin and Shamir, SAC 2001 Thanks, --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N8V4Ex016824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:31:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N8V3p1016823; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N8UgmP016728 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9FC6D3F80; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:30:39 +0200 To: OpenPGP Subject: ArcFour for OpenPGP [Re: Camellia for OpenPGP] Message-ID: <20070423083039.GA21202@epointsystem.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While we are at it, I have an application, where using block ciphers is prohibitively slow and thus I use ArcFour (RC4) in symmetrically encrypted data packets in the following way: The key (either from s2k specifiers or from asymmetrically encrypted packets) is concatenated with an 8-byte salt at the beginning of the encrypted packet, the result is hashed using RIPEMD-128 and the resulting 128 bits are used as the ArcFour key encrypting the data. The first 256 bytes are discarded from the key stream. The same format is used in both MDC-protected data packets and in non-integrity-protected data packets, the sole difference being the MDC packet at the end of the integrity-protected kind. Otherwise, the application is RFC2440-compliant. Right now, I use an experimental/private number for this symmetric encryption algorithm, but maybe it would make sense to include it in the standard as something optional to allow interoperability with other OpenPGP applications. I also have a patch for GnuPG. --=20 Daniel --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iQDVAwUBRixur66pEulQFnIMAQLUagX/Z4duoHJoWwF5QRuOhZildX9nmrpIshk3 eLL/u8mBDIci7QddvWRQ0PThgnJ4EVC0i55etpeGvdvAvmEdSqX1y+nOgurBLaOr 29ra9NCRTR2Em/t1pdy9ELeSV/TVVMaxznCBn0gGVDCsWHK7WpyHyo8vpPaZu2C/ gmA5dK+tvinEHCijx82voxxGr+fzZLr/2jm2m405jBBrMn0GphIDt4HU2+Z3sGO3 aU+6mMIox85FVBukQ1kLve8IIgodtSAb =K5II -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N5glET090951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:42:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3N5glO5090950; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:42:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3N5gQZE090935 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:42:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1HfrJf-0004WY-00 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:42:23 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI To: OpenPGP Subject: Camellia for OpenPGP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:42:20 +0900 Message-Id: Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi. I'd like to propose a new id number of symmetric key algorithms for Camellia that is known as RFC3657. Camellia source code is available as GPL, BSD Lisence, Mozilla Public License and OpenSSL License. And it is included in OpenSSL, ipsec-tool, Linux kernel, Firefox trunk and NSS trunk. Also, there are a Camellia patch for GNUPG. Camellia is moving to main stream cipher of FLOSS community. Camellia is more popular than any other symmetric key algorithms in rfc2440bis except AES. Proposal is as below; Thanks. ---section 9.2--- 9.2. Symmetric Key Algorithms ID Algorithm -- --------- 0 - Plaintext or unencrypted data 1 - IDEA [IDEA] 2 - TripleDES (DES-EDE, [SCHNEIER] [HAC] - 168 bit key derived from 192) 3 - CAST5 (128 bit key, as per RFC 2144) 4 - Blowfish (128 bit key, 16 rounds) [BLOWFISH] 5 - Reserved 6 - Reserved 7 - AES with 128-bit key [AES] 8 - AES with 192-bit key 9 - AES with 256-bit key 10 - Twofish with 256-bit key [TWOFISH] 11 - Camellia with 256-bit key [RFC3657] 100 to 110 - Private/Experimental algorithm. ---section 13.9--- 13.9. OpenPGP CFB mode ... In the description below, the value BS is the block size in octets of the cipher. Most ciphers have a block size of 8 octets. The AES, Twofish and Camellia have a block size of 16 octets. Also note that the description below assumes that the IV and CFB arrays start with an index of 1 (unlike the C language, which assumes arrays start with a zero index). ---section 16---- 16. References (Normative) .... [RFC3657] S. Moriai and A. Kato, "Use of the Camellia Encryption Algorithm in Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS)", RFC 3657. ---- --- Hironobu SUZUKI Hironobu SUZUKI Office, Inc. / FSIJ / WCLSCAN / OpenPKSD Tokyo, Japan. http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJoSIY085730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AJoSS4085729; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJo7Hf085694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:50:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDFD1761D; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HbMLq-0002mx-DH; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the An Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : OpenPGP Message Format Author(s) : J. Callas, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt Pages : 85 Date : 2007-4-10 This document is maintained in order to publish all necessary information needed to develop interoperable applications based on the OpenPGP format. It is not a step-by-step cookbook for writing an application. It describes only the format and methods needed to read, check, generate, and write conforming packets crossing any network. It does not deal with storage and implementation questions. It does, however, discuss implementation issues necessary to avoid security flaws. OpenPGP software uses a combination of strong public-key and symmetric cryptography to provide security services for electronic communications and data storage. These services include confidentiality, key management, authentication, and digital signatures. This document specifies the message formats used in OpenPGP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-10141456.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-21.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-10141456.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AF1SuY057523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:01:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AF1SwE057522; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:01:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from live.Belkin ([69.25.196.182]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AF17Cw057487 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:01:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by live.Belkin (Postfix, from userid 8042) id F19E648E3; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:01:01 -0400 (EDT) From: hartmans-ietf@mit.edu To: Derek Atkins Cc: Jon Callas , OpenPGP Subject: Re: New Draft on its way References: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:01:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Derek Atkins's message of "Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:25 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi. Sending the new draft was fine in this instance. I'm sorry there are so many picky and confusing rules about when it's OK and when it is not. Basically the best way is to coordinate with the AD after publication request. I briefly reviewed the diffs in 20 before pulling it from the agenda. The reason I pulled it is that it looked like references required to implement the spec were moved from normative to informative (presumably in response to last call/genart comments). I suspect that this was wrong and need to go back and confirm what is going on. I don't think I will get to this today; I'm trying for tomorrow. --Sam Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ADA1oA048678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3ADA112048677; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ihtfp.org (MAIL.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.6]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AD9e1Z048636 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from warlord@MIT.EDU) Received: from cliodev.pgp.com (CLIODEV.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.20]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cliodev.ihtfp.com", Issuer "IHTFP Consulting Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by mail.ihtfp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3AABD854D; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from warlord@localhost) by cliodev.pgp.com (8.13.8/8.13.1/Submit) id l3AD9PAG021108; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:25 -0400 From: Derek Atkins To: Jon Callas Cc: OpenPGP , hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: New Draft on its way References: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Jon Callas's message of "Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:33 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Jon Callas writes: > On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:20 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > >> >> Jon, >> >> Can you please hold off on submitting the new draft for now? >> We should be on the next IESG telechat with -20, and I wouldn't >> want to derail it. Now, if Sam says it's okay to submit -21 >> then let's go ahead, but otherwise we should just hold onto it >> and then we can feed the IESG comments into a new draft and either >> send the diffs or a new document as necessary. >> > > Sorry, too late. I can ask the ID desk to hold it, but it's in. Well, we'll see what Sam has to say. PGP isn't on the agenda for the 4/19 meeting, yet, so reviewing -21 might be okay. But it's up to Sam. Sam? > Jon -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord@MIT.EDU PGP key available Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A6cxfU022993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3A6cxqp022992; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A6cca6022967 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-161.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753B362C86B for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.93.68.165] ([66.93.68.165]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 09 Apr 2007 23:38:38 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 09 Apr 2007 23:38:38 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> References: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: Cc: OpenPGP , hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: New Draft on its way Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:38:33 -0700 To: Derek Atkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:20 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > > Jon, > > Can you please hold off on submitting the new draft for now? > We should be on the next IESG telechat with -20, and I wouldn't > want to derail it. Now, if Sam says it's okay to submit -21 > then let's go ahead, but otherwise we should just hold onto it > and then we can feed the IESG comments into a new draft and either > send the diffs or a new document as necessary. > Sorry, too late. I can ask the ID desk to hold it, but it's in. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.0 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGGzDusTedWZOD3gYRAs30AJ97bsKuICjGGliBA8Ebo/CqFTl+OQCfdm/P 8YVaaf4ghvTHpzQJ/8a1JHA= =hJHn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A1L0gC006695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3A1L0Bv006694; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from biscayne-one-station.mit.edu (BISCAYNE-ONE-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.80]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A1KceO006683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:20:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from warlord@MIT.EDU) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by biscayne-one-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id l3A1KROP001779; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 21:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from w92-130-webmail-2.mit.edu (W92-130-WEBMAIL-2.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.132]) ) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id l3A1KOSK021226; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 21:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by w92-130-webmail-2.mit.edu (8.12.4) id l3A1KO9t029655; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 21:20:24 -0400 Received: from CLIODEV.IHTFP.ORG (CLIODEV.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.20]) (User authenticated as warlord@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by webmail.mit.edu (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:20:24 -0400 Message-ID: <20070409212024.9q37vdt8vv0oogws@webmail.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:20:24 -0400 From: Derek Atkins To: Jon Callas Cc: OpenPGP , hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: New Draft on its way References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.00 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Jon, Can you please hold off on submitting the new draft for now? We should be on the next IESG telechat with -20, and I wouldn't want to derail it. Now, if Sam says it's okay to submit -21 then let's go ahead, but otherwise we should just hold onto it and then we can feed the IESG comments into a new draft and either send the diffs or a new document as necessary. Thanks, -derek Quoting Jon Callas : > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I'm going to be submitting bis21 shortly. This has the following > changes in it: > > * Working author email address for Rodney Thayer. > > * Additional notes from IANA comments, as well as some reworking. > Reserved signature subpacket types are explicitly marked reserved, > there are notes in section 9 that make things more clear, and > sections 10.4 through 10.6 have been moved to the end of section 13 > because they are not IANA considerations per se, but considerations > that future work should pay attention to. I also changed "upwards- > compatible" to "backwards-compatible" in the meta-considerations > section, because that seems better to me. > > I apologize about confusion about the last couple drafts. I was > accidentally omitted from the email from IANA. About the time that > they sent it, I sent out bis20, which had corrections from other IETF > Last Call comments. The coincidence in timing meant that many people > thought I was strangely not including IANA comments. I was confused > about why people were confused. I think we're all no longer confused, > and I think that this is a wrap. My fingers are crossed. > > Jon > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGP Universal 2.6.0 > Charset: US-ASCII > > wj8DBQFGGtT3sTedWZOD3gYRAlZSAKC9sVJnzMGxekIO1+a62z/810fRwQCgsjmf > vSNpf3d4p4GHbcQ2kPy49j8= > =1Wz2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord@MIT.EDU PGP key available Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A06Wav001746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3A06WbZ001745; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A06Her001731 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-161.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B8862B374 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:06:15 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:06:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: To: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: New Draft on its way Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:06:15 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Format: Partitioned X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm going to be submitting bis21 shortly. This has the following changes in it: * Working author email address for Rodney Thayer. * Additional notes from IANA comments, as well as some reworking. Reserved signature subpacket types are explicitly marked reserved, there are notes in section 9 that make things more clear, and sections 10.4 through 10.6 have been moved to the end of section 13 because they are not IANA considerations per se, but considerations that future work should pay attention to. I also changed "upwards- compatible" to "backwards-compatible" in the meta-considerations section, because that seems better to me. I apologize about confusion about the last couple drafts. I was accidentally omitted from the email from IANA. About the time that they sent it, I sent out bis20, which had corrections from other IETF Last Call comments. The coincidence in timing meant that many people thought I was strangely not including IANA comments. I was confused about why people were confused. I think we're all no longer confused, and I think that this is a wrap. My fingers are crossed. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.6.0 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGGtT3sTedWZOD3gYRAlZSAKC9sVJnzMGxekIO1+a62z/810fRwQCgsjmf vSNpf3d4p4GHbcQ2kPy49j8= =1Wz2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3385duf036809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3385dgN036808; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.160]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3385HAw036761 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (dsl093-068-161.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.68.161]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8689E60ADA4 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.4.155] ([82.111.252.190]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Tue, 03 Apr 2007 01:05:17 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Tue, 03 Apr 2007 01:05:17 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87mz2hw76l.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> References: <87mz2hw76l.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: <92026916-11B5-4381-8CC0-428FAC491B28@callas.org> Cc: OpenPGP From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis (OpenPGP Message Format) to Proposed Standard Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:05:18 -0700 To: Simon Josefsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-PGP-Encoding-Version: 2.0.2 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > There are reference to old documents, including: > > RFC 2279 -> RFC 3629 > RFC 1750 -> RFC 4086 > Thanks. > There are normative reference to non-standards track RFCs, including: > > RFC 1641 I just removed this. > RFC 1951 This is the definition of ZIP/DEFLATE. We have to have it. It is also the best documentation of ZIP there is. Nonetheless, I moved it to Informative despite the fact that it is a normative reference, because idnits complained about it, too. > RFC 1991 (which documents is intended to obsolete?) RFC 1991 is the RFC that describes PGP 2.6.x. With 2440bis, we have deprecated those mechanisms. Consequently, they are less well-defined in 2440bis than they were in 2440. If an implementation wants to be compatible with PGP 2.6.x, it is more important that this be referenced. I moved it to informative, too, because idnits complained. > RFC 2144 > This is the description of CAST5. Idnits didn't complain about this one, so I left it. > The following reference are never cited in the text as far as I can > tell. Most of them should likely be removed, but citing > [BLEICHENBACHER] at some appropriate point may be useful. > > [RFC1423] Balenson, D., "Privacy Enhancement for Internet > Electronic Mail: Part III: Algorithms, Modes, and > Identifiers", RFC 1423, October 1993. Moved to Informative. It would be a shame not to honor the contribution that PEM made to secure email. > > [RFC1641] Goldsmith, D. and M. Davis, "Using Unicode with > MIME", RFC 1641, July 1994. > I just removed it. > [BLEICHENBACHER] Bleichenbacher, Daniel, "Generating Elgamal > signatures without knowing the secret key," > Eurocrypt 96. Note that the version in the > proceedings has an error. A revised version is > available at the time of writing from > /isc/ElGamal.ps> > I added a reference in the discussion of Elgamal signatures. > [DONNERHACKE] Donnerhacke, L., et. al, "PGP263in - an improved > international version of PGP", ftp://ftp.iks- > jena.de/mitarb/lutz/crypt/software/pgp/ > Removed, since we're deprecating 2.6.x. > [MAURER] Ueli Maurer, "Modelling a Public-Key > Infrastructure", Proc. 1996 European Symposium on > Research in Computer Security (ESORICS' 96), > Lecture Notes in Computer Science, Springer- > Verlag, > vol. 1146, pp. 325-350, Sep 1996. > I'm leaving this in, because it's a good informative reference despite there being no specific place for it. > [RFC1983] Malkin, G., "Internet Users' Glossary", FYI > 18, RFC > 1983, August 1996. > Removed. Thanks for the comments. Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Universal 2.5.3 Charset: US-ASCII wj8DBQFGEgq9sTedWZOD3gYRAtCnAKDGp+ANeguMUJB5BOH49SLIRKLRCgCcCTCD wfMHnpRuENGvCSJVljjeZhM= =sa20 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l32MoV3M002902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:50:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l32MoVTt002901; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:50:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l32Mo99g002888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:50:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA76217632; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HYVLe-0002GK-Gm; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-20.txt Message-Id: Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:50:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the An Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : OpenPGP Message Format Author(s) : J. Callas, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-20.txt Pages : 84 Date : 2007-4-2 This document is maintained in order to publish all necessary information needed to develop interoperable applications based on the OpenPGP format. It is not a step-by-step cookbook for writing an application. It describes only the format and methods needed to read, check, generate, and write conforming packets crossing any network. It does not deal with storage and implementation questions. It does, however, discuss implementation issues necessary to avoid security flaws. OpenPGP software uses a combination of strong public-key and symmetric cryptography to provide security services for electronic communications and data storage. These services include confidentiality, key management, authentication, and digital signatures. This document specifies the message formats used in OpenPGP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-20.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-20.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-20.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-2151732.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-20.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-20.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-2151732.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart--