From nobody Wed Apr 15 10:53:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31063A0D1D for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2r6BpQypsnYg for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-40130.protonmail.ch (mail-40130.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B31333A0D1C for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:53:31 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1586973217; bh=RbJD481IZkqeJ9MM9t46Ux9aWFnKxhDvuu9k/Da2ogU=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:From; b=IlDwXw6RmZhOfZx7CpXjHXsc52prlYZsYQiO2Z594SNTJmMJP7nrDgbI0DouZTbGE hrBEi00bkEUJkKBOcZw9SYqndiY7/kM/MDSIdXYMoEfPm/85H2zrb2vYs2AY4GU4zy FvoWnd5ytSAmD2QC9guzNa6bXElxzTYy7abPuYjI= To: "openpgp@ietf.org" From: "Tanveer.Salim" Reply-To: "Tanveer.Salim" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:53:44 -0000 Dear IETF, Hello. I am Tanveer Salim and am a Computer Engineering Student from Texas = Tech University. Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to work on GNUPG for= all these years. I personally am really glad you are willing to ensure people have a sound o= ption for secure communication on the internet. I discussed the pros and cons of using ChaCha20-Poly1305 first with the Pro= tonMail Security Team on a Reddit Forum: (https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/g0pa55/protonmail_securitys_o= pinion_on_using_the/) and as of now with the creators of WireGuard VPN. ProtonMail users and the ProtonMail Security Team admitted that most hardwa= re devices already have hardware support for AES-GC 256-bit encryption and = therefore AES-GCM 256-bit will be faster than a pure-software implementatio= n of ChaCha20. Jason Dononfeld, one of the creators of WireGuard VPN, said that although t= hat was true ARX-512 bit vector extensions for the Intel and AMD instructio= n set architectures will allow hardware-accelerated implementations of ChaC= ha20-Poly1305 to run even faster than hardware-accelerated implemetnations = of AES (e.g. AES-NI). (https://www.wireguard.com/papers/wireguard.pdf) This was why Jason Dononfeld and the rest of the WireGuard VPN team made Ch= aCha20-Poly1305 the primary, exclusive AEAD in their VPN. For now, support for AVX-512 bit instructions is not as widespread just yet= . But that should be the case in a matter of a few years as cited in the Wi= reGuard VPN Whitepaper.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVX-512). (https://www.wireguard.com/papers/wireguard.pdf) For now, although ProtonMail is mostly correct in their saying that hardwar= e-accelerated AES is faster than pure-software, Jason Dononfeld definitely = seems to be making a strong argument for using ChaCha20-Poly1305. Soon in t= he future, ARX-512 bit vector extensions will allow hardware-accelerated Ch= aCha20-Poly1305 to run faster than hardware-accelerated AES. ProtonMail did admit it would be a good idea to try to add the ChaCha20-Pol= y1305 to OpenPGP and WebCrypto. Afterwards, they would be happy to add supp= ort for ChaCha20-Poly1305. This is perhaps also why other projects are adding support for ChaCha20-Pol= y1305 as we speak. Other famous projects that are using ChaCha20-Poly1305 in their works inclu= de NordPass (https://nordpass.com/features/xchacha20-encryption/), KeePassX= C, and SSH (http://blog.djm.net.au/2013/11/chacha20-and-poly1305-in-openssh= .html). Considering the growing usage of ChaCha20-Poly1305, would you consider addi= ng ChaCha20-Poly1305 as an additional cipher to your draft of OpenPGP stand= ardization. I noticed you were working on a new draft for OpenPGP in RFC 48= 80bis: (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc4880bis-09). Libgcrypt already supports ChaCha20 and Poly1305 individually after all. Bu= t OpenPGP does not yet accept ChaCha20-Poly1305 as an additional/experiment= al cipher yet. Since you are the lead developer of GNUPG, which is the world's most influe= ntial implementation of OpenPGP, you could certainly make it an additional = cipher to OpenPGP. With saying all of this, I would like to ask if you are now considering to = add ChaCha20-Poly1305 itself to the OpenPGP standardization? I thank you for any responses to send back to me. I actually first emailed Werner Koch directly and has given me permission t= o reiterate his response: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------- Werner Koch's Response Below: Hi! Thanks for the long writeup but you should better direct this mail to the IETF WG list: openpgp@ietf.org which is the appropriate place for such requests. The set of cipher algorithms in OpenPGP is long and actually longer than we like it.=C2=A0 Most of the extra cipher algorithms are there for politic= al reasons (e.g. Camellia) and in practice not used.=C2=A0 We have settled lon= g ago for AES because that is a the best block cipher algorithm we have and main stream CPUs provide hardware acceleration for it. Regarding encryption modes, we are using CFB+MDC and are preparing to move on to OCB and EAX (with the latter only there for political/patent fears).=C2=A0 This allows us keep on using AES.=C2=A0 Changing to a stream = cipher, as you propose is very unlikely. You may however use the experimental range of algo identifiers for ChaCha but that won't be useful for production.=C2=A0 Replacing algorithms takes years and we are not even there to enable OCB or EAX modes. Shalom-Salam, =C2=A0=C2=A0 Werner ps. if you want to post to the WG list, feel free to include this mail. -- Die Gedanken sind frei.=C2=A0 Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz. So Mr. Koch admits that there are political problems and technical issues w= ith adding ChaCha20-Poly1305. Political in the sense that many implementati= ons will be offended if the switch was made from AES to ChaCha20-Poly1305. = I am not saying we should necessarily switch the official standard from AES= to ChaCha20-Poly1305. Just to add ChaCha20-Poly1305 as an alternative. The= technical challenge was that even the OCB and EAX mode meant to improve AE= S performance were not even added yet. Finally, I have one more additional question. According to the Autocrypt website, it would be great if Argon2 and SCrypt = key derivation functions to OpenPGP as well. But Autocrypt admitted that th= is is yet to be done. (https://autocrypt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/faq.html) So will the IETF be trying to add support for both key derivation functions= in the current draft for RFC 4880bis? I thank the IETF for updating OpenPGP and taking the time to send back any = replies to me. Sincerely, Tanveer Salim Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. From nobody Wed Apr 15 15:20:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417463A0AE0 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:20:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2DZELSAC0Uzq for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.protonmail.ch (mail2.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F84F3A0ADF for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:20:36 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1586989246; bh=AG6/Su1KiQ61nijFiPjbKlC61ulZvVDFlL9VQdQnF0U=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=HnruFF2Sw9RMR3NJbdfjxqGqpM5L6Hq9VrSLpa9hiYF9p8MkBnwg+Y35egbj9nbWZ lJCIwX+RopI4R3h8uX9CBj36qjlVs6J5FoeK3J+pg+JwIamMFfuYv/qAXGwG/DdMKn sw8L++O0FQ9jkCfMNlsry9FdKO+rld54WRxos9Y4= To: "Tanveer.Salim" From: Bart Butler Cc: "openpgp@ietf.org" Reply-To: Bart Butler Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="---------------------42ac1b258a135b50fa3df07f7f21a231"; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:20:57 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) -----------------------42ac1b258a135b50fa3df07f7f21a231 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------432d16f5261932f463cd20177788a971 -----------------------432d16f5261932f463cd20177788a971 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Hi Tanveer, Thanks for the suggestion. I'll be the first to admin that ChaCha20-Poly13= 05 is a great symmetric algorithm. That said, there's nothing really wrong with AES, and I agree with Werner = that if anything the OpenPGP specification has too many ciphers rather tha= n too few (though most of these are asymmetric, to be fair). More ciphers = mean more work to implement and maintain the OpenPGP spec, and there has a= lready been so much effort on the cryptographic refresh for OpenPGP, and s= o many implementations which are done or close to implementing the current= draft, that the likelihood of adding yet another cipher to the mix I'd sa= y is slim, despite it being, on the merits, a good one. Another thing worth mentioning is that OpenPGP messages are archival. Remo= val of algorithms is always hard, because you need to still be able to dec= rypt old messages. In contrast, most of the examples you have cited involv= e transient transport-layer security, which is ephemeral and therefore eas= ier to drop legacy support. The same goes for those protocols and examples= being non-distributed organizations--if you only have to be compatible wi= th yourself, you can do whatever you'd like, which is essentially Werner's= point about experimental algorithms. What this means is that we'd never be able to "drop" AES--the best we coul= d do is add ChaCha and wait for the major implementations to add it. This = would in turn delay the cryptographic refresh of OpenPGP by even more, int= roduce more opportunities for incompatibilities between implementations, a= nd increase the algorithm bloat of OpenPGP for a minor speed and security = benefit, and, because OpenPGP messages last forever, it would obligate tha= t support to continue for the next several decades. It does not seem worth= it to me, at least at this time. Cheers, Bart Butler Proton CTO =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original M= essage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 10:53 AM, Tanveer.Salim wrote: > Dear IETF, > = > Hello. I am Tanveer Salim and am a Computer Engineering Student from Tex= as Tech University. > = > Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to work on GNUPG = for all these years. > = > I personally am really glad you are willing to ensure people have a soun= d option for secure communication on the internet. > = > I discussed the pros and cons of using ChaCha20-Poly1305 first with the = ProtonMail Security Team on a Reddit Forum: > = > (https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/g0pa55/protonmail_security= s_opinion_on_using_the/) > = > and as of now with the creators of WireGuard VPN. > = > ProtonMail users and the ProtonMail Security Team admitted that most har= dware devices already have hardware support for AES-GC 256-bit encryption = and therefore AES-GCM 256-bit will be faster than a pure-software implemen= tation of ChaCha20. > = > Jason Dononfeld, one of the creators of WireGuard VPN, said that althoug= h that was true ARX-512 bit vector extensions for the Intel and AMD instru= ction set architectures will allow hardware-accelerated implementations of= ChaCha20-Poly1305 to run even faster than hardware-accelerated implemetna= tions of AES (e.g. AES-NI). (https://www.wireguard.com/papers/wireguard.pd= f) > = > This was why Jason Dononfeld and the rest of the WireGuard VPN team made= ChaCha20-Poly1305 the primary, exclusive AEAD in their VPN. > = > For now, support for AVX-512 bit instructions is not as widespread just = yet. But that should be the case in a matter of a few years as cited in th= e WireGuard VPN Whitepaper.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVX-512). > (https://www.wireguard.com/papers/wireguard.pdf) > = > For now, although ProtonMail is mostly correct in their saying that hard= ware-accelerated AES is faster than pure-software, Jason Dononfeld definit= ely seems to be making a strong argument for using ChaCha20-Poly1305. Soon= in the future, ARX-512 bit vector extensions will allow hardware-accelera= ted ChaCha20-Poly1305 to run faster than hardware-accelerated AES. > = > ProtonMail did admit it would be a good idea to try to add the ChaCha20-= Poly1305 to OpenPGP and WebCrypto. Afterwards, they would be happy to add = support for ChaCha20-Poly1305. > = > This is perhaps also why other projects are adding support for ChaCha20-= Poly1305 as we speak. > = > Other famous projects that are using ChaCha20-Poly1305 in their works in= clude NordPass (https://nordpass.com/features/xchacha20-encryption/), KeeP= assXC, and SSH (http://blog.djm.net.au/2013/11/chacha20-and-poly1305-in-op= enssh.html). > = > Considering the growing usage of ChaCha20-Poly1305, would you consider a= dding ChaCha20-Poly1305 as an additional cipher to your draft of OpenPGP s= tandardization. I noticed you were working on a new draft for OpenPGP in R= FC 4880bis: (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc4880bis-09)= . > = > Libgcrypt already supports ChaCha20 and Poly1305 individually after all.= But OpenPGP does not yet accept ChaCha20-Poly1305 as an additional/experi= mental cipher yet. > = > Since you are the lead developer of GNUPG, which is the world's most inf= luential implementation of OpenPGP, you could certainly make it an additio= nal cipher to OpenPGP. > = > With saying all of this, I would like to ask if you are now considering = to add ChaCha20-Poly1305 itself to the OpenPGP standardization? > = > I thank you for any responses to send back to me. > = > I actually first emailed Werner Koch directly and has given me permissio= n to reiterate his response: > = > ------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------------- > = > Werner Koch's Response Below: > = > Hi! > = > Thanks for the long writeup but you should better direct this mail to > the IETF WG list: openpgp@ietf.org which is the appropriate place for > such requests. > = > The set of cipher algorithms in OpenPGP is long and actually longer than > we like it.=C2=A0 Most of the extra cipher algorithms are there for poli= tical > reasons (e.g. Camellia) and in practice not used.=C2=A0 We have settled = long > ago for AES because that is a the best block cipher algorithm we have > and main stream CPUs provide hardware acceleration for it. > = > Regarding encryption modes, we are using CFB+MDC and are preparing to > move on to OCB and EAX (with the latter only there for political/patent > fears).=C2=A0 This allows us keep on using AES.=C2=A0 Changing to a stre= am cipher, > as you propose is very unlikely. > = > You may however use the experimental range of algo identifiers for > ChaCha but that won't be useful for production.=C2=A0 Replacing algorith= ms > takes years and we are not even there to enable OCB or EAX modes. > = > Shalom-Salam, > = > =C2=A0=C2=A0 Werner > = > ps. > if you want to post to the WG list, feel free to include this mail. > = > ------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------------------------------- > = > Die Gedanken sind frei.=C2=A0 Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz. > = > So Mr. Koch admits that there are political problems and technical issue= s with adding ChaCha20-Poly1305. Political in the sense that many implemen= tations will be offended if the switch was made from AES to ChaCha20-Poly1= 305. I am not saying we should necessarily switch the official standard fr= om AES to ChaCha20-Poly1305. Just to add ChaCha20-Poly1305 as an alternati= ve. The technical challenge was that even the OCB and EAX mode meant to im= prove AES performance were not even added yet. > = > Finally, I have one more additional question. > = > According to the Autocrypt website, it would be great if Argon2 and SCry= pt key derivation functions to OpenPGP as well. But Autocrypt admitted tha= t this is yet to be done. (https://autocrypt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/faq.= html) > = > So will the IETF be trying to add support for both key derivation functi= ons in the current draft for RFC 4880bis? > = > I thank the IETF for updating OpenPGP and taking the time to send back a= ny replies to me. > = > Sincerely, > = > Tanveer Salim > = > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. > = > openpgp mailing list > openpgp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp -----------------------432d16f5261932f463cd20177788a971-- -----------------------42ac1b258a135b50fa3df07f7f21a231 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wl4EARYKAAYFAl6XiLIACgkQmQVEZe8zHkSkkwEA95Q1C0et3vDpaAmbR/f/ wqjBSI0Y3I3DecIvqq6zstAA/0F/5NZtBzsbptSrIwlhjBLDBWeVVxctZyDt 57AXtXUC =vCA0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----------------------42ac1b258a135b50fa3df07f7f21a231-- From nobody Wed Apr 15 16:03:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4607F3A0CB0 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 16:03:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nohats.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ps8WppYhYhNL for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 16:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.nohats.ca (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:2a03:6000:1004:1::68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B3F23A0CAE for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 16:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 492dFc3ZWjzG6n; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:03:48 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nohats.ca; s=default; t=1586991828; bh=OfaSvm4xtyQ9uHEXZNy84Jd2IcM010BV6TIDSu+2STc=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:Cc:In-Reply-To:To; b=d2fCQiARhLJuRsyLn4Kao6BL+KwYyyToN0LKz3r65+TTZyDb8ur6//JLPNqRpEe2t nn0QE3UjSn5pp8LYVJmIj0UDiKTys5ZbHPsHbuSY36eMKymZT5+MVcL/cLNoEQt7Lp rHMhqkbs/Fqc+UR9ci4bmqDI34wPUfFisC7N9cLw= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mx.nohats.ca Received: from mx.nohats.ca ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KAOEsF6cOiiA; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:03:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (bofh.nohats.ca [76.10.157.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:03:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [193.111.228.74] (unknown [193.111.228.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 587F6601EBCB; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 19:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Paul Wouters Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 19:03:42 -0400 Message-Id: <719834C6-3421-4E7E-98D6-8CEDDDD71246@nohats.ca> References: Cc: "Tanveer.Salim" , "openpgp@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: To: Bart Butler X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17D50) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 23:03:54 -0000 On Apr 15, 2020, at 18:21, Bart Butler wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > What this means is that we'd never be able to "drop" AES--the best we coul= d do is add ChaCha and wait for the major implementations to add it. This wo= uld in turn delay the cryptographic refresh of OpenPGP by even more, introdu= ce more opportunities for incompatibilities between implementations, and inc= rease the algorithm bloat of OpenPGP for a minor speed and security benefit,= and, because OpenPGP messages last forever, it would obligate that support t= o continue for the next several decades. It does not seem worth it to me, at= least at this time. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Paul From nobody Wed Apr 15 18:47:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FBA3A0833 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 18:47:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=auckland.ac.nz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9BW8MTZZKmDW for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 18:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4-int.auckland.ac.nz (mx4-int.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.125.246]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5B363A082F for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 18:46:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=auckland.ac.nz; i=@auckland.ac.nz; q=dns/txt; s=mail; t=1587001621; x=1618537621; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=sIJaaSU3X0KIWeeRPKkByP93fmPKEvjvZ4kuDmRT7b0=; b=3c8Tdc7ElteMPBMnpimKAZUEiAFLc0DHKTGJeyKjbbpi8Ch7iu3lkTsg kyQ1LaBKtFFECtv2Dq54u3V0Uu65WhHTZWLKpY8VIo9ScxuLTVG+CB9QY qygclkQdpDNm2iWFK6gONT0A84GpYM14haqHJhQwLsanKWVnz2FqUeE2M 9p84ciM0wR9Rs8Eoyg+QRHaBBhFm2W6+Xp+mainaxhyU8Oqqzc/Nd/LEh JT4JDVEpJJlPOUb3yvK14FN0trT21XEEpsQ0PiSrC9M1MptWXekdeY5Sq H3p1T/B/ztsnVmXlhUwVEN5MpFwosfVF5PXq58b2lU2VtIL41JPObOqzx w==; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.72,388,1580727600"; d="scan'208";a="128341141" X-Ironport-HAT: MAIL-SERVERS - $RELAYED X-Ironport-Source: 10.6.2.5 - Outgoing - Outgoing Received: from exchangemx.uoa.auckland.ac.nz (HELO uxcn13-ogg-d.UoA.auckland.ac.nz) ([10.6.2.5]) by mx4-int.auckland.ac.nz with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 16 Apr 2020 13:46:51 +1200 Received: from uxcn13-ogg-d.UoA.auckland.ac.nz (10.6.2.5) by uxcn13-ogg-d.UoA.auckland.ac.nz (10.6.2.5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 13:46:51 +1200 Received: from uxcn13-ogg-d.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([10.6.2.5]) by uxcn13-ogg-d.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([10.6.2.5]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.006; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 13:46:50 +1200 From: Peter Gutmann To: Tanveer.Salim , Bart Butler CC: "openpgp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization Thread-Index: AQHWE07Zd/Au9W2tBUi8I5/s+w6psKh5+GMAgAEClHI= Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:46:50 +0000 Message-ID: <1587001610061.98701@cs.auckland.ac.nz> References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-NZ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [130.216.158.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:47:05 -0000 Bart Butler writes:=0A= =0A= >It does not seem worth it to me, at least at this time.=0A= =0A= Another problem with ChaCha20-Poly1305 is that it's incredibly brittle unle= ss=0A= you get the keying details exactly 100% right. There's at least two full-= =0A= blown lengthy RFCs written that cover nothing but the complex keying=0A= requirements, and if you get them wrong you get a catastrophic failure of= =0A= security. For things like TLS it may not be that bad because an attacker= =0A= would have to intercept and analyse live data at a particular point in time= ,=0A= while for OpenPGP they could go back years later to stored data to take=0A= advantage of a flaw. It's like using nitroglycerine vs. TNT, they both hav= e=0A= the same end effect if you get everything just right, but I'd never even=0A= consider the former.=0A= =0A= Peter.=0A= From nobody Wed Apr 15 22:10:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20A23A0DE0 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:10:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gnupg.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CwQRM8MSOQCy for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com (kerckhoffs.g10code.com [IPv6:2001:aa8:fff1:100::22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94E663A0DDF for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:10:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnupg.org; s=20181017; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=W/9vj5PqT65mi1PyX3YP2cfbrnb+JRLhXLOuUDNi300=; b=B0DOwNMcksqUMOdknXEmV/8+qV 458TYnAtSCCcy/EntFZyGMGXJUAA3K5bOHU3PWG41xLuW0FXnHQo680al4LLUYnwb2enJTi5ViKx4 74Fh6/Yu9mSXPMTxs4ZaFYpiRqC9QSnbjFtPzzc3GlDvARBVesnnyBi6UDPLRuAY2sRA=; Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.89 #1 (Debian)) id 1jOwmv-0006gt-2r for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 07:10:09 +0200 Received: from wk by wheatstone.g10code.de with local (Exim 4.92 #5 (Debian)) id 1jOwmN-0002d5-NK; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 07:09:35 +0200 From: Werner Koch To: "Tanveer.Salim" Cc: "openpgp\@ietf.org" , "Tanveer.Salim" References: Organisation: GnuPG e.V. X-message-flag: Mails containing HTML will not be read! Please send only plain text. Mail-Followup-To: "Tanveer.Salim" , "openpgp\@ietf.org" , "Tanveer.Salim" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 07:09:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Tanveer Salim's message of "Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:53:31 +0000") Message-ID: <87y2qw6mph.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=Salmonella_Ammonium_nitrate_SAFE_Recce_Arellano-Felix_Mayfly_Jet_Sle"; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 05:10:15 -0000 --=Salmonella_Ammonium_nitrate_SAFE_Recce_Arellano-Felix_Mayfly_Jet_Sle Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:53, Tanveer.Salim said: > issues with adding ChaCha20-Poly1305. Political in the sense that many > implementations will be offended if the switch was made from AES to > ChaCha20-Poly1305. I am not saying we should necessarily switch the Well, that was not exactly my point. With political I meant that we had to add a couple of algorithms to please some countries or make it possible for them to use OpenPGP. That is for example the case for Camellia, the Brainpool and NIST curves. > According to the Autocrypt website, it would be great if Argon2 and > SCrypt key derivation functions to OpenPGP as well. But Autocrypt Well, we are doing public key crypto and thus passwords are not of primary interest. If OpenPGP is used with symmetric-only encryption I expect that a full-entropy key is used and thus the KDF is not used for security reasons. Shalom-Salam, Werner =2D-=20 Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz. --=Salmonella_Ammonium_nitrate_SAFE_Recce_Arellano-Felix_Mayfly_Jet_Sle Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQTX/8BjtAoilLlm20f/gK6dHew1jQUCXpfoigAKCRD/gK6dHew1 jSKuAQCClY78NVeRb7PcYJv6OL0hqwUgWyFeKiYvT4W3OEsUmgEAzJdAy9+AlKq+ OWfnztY6+NBj/hyagodp5YHoUWWHSAE= =oSI8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=Salmonella_Ammonium_nitrate_SAFE_Recce_Arellano-Felix_Mayfly_Jet_Sle-- From nobody Thu Apr 16 08:19:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EB073A0BB2 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:19:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CHynhWL7qq8E for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zucker.schokokeks.org (zucker.schokokeks.org [178.63.68.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 406563A0BAF for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from computer ([2a02:8109:8380:7e7e:b886:8d52:6199:3925]) (AUTH: LOGIN hanno-default@schokokeks.org, ) by zucker.schokokeks.org with ESMTPSA id 000000000000005B.000000005E98776A.00006E91; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:19:06 +0200 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:19:11 +0200 From: Hanno =?iso-8859-1?q?B=F6ck?= To: openpgp@ietf.org Cc: "Tanveer.Salim" Message-ID: <20200416171911.0100023c@computer> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:19:11 -0000 Given that you quoted Jason Donenfeld quite a bit I propose that you actually ask him for his design criteria. Because what you seem to propose is adding more and more variations to OpenPGP. I discussed this with Jason before and he's a strong advocate of less choices and strongly against algorithm agility. And I agree. FWIW I believe the pros and cons of the different AEAD ciphers are of very minor relevance, yet the algorithm zoo is a big downside. From what I know openpgp has still not published a standardized AEAD. My proposal would be to choose one and only one AEAD and declare all other algorithms as deprecated. And which one almost doesn't matter. And I'm pretty sure Jason would agree with me on that, but feel free to ask him. --=20 Hanno B=C3=B6ck https://hboeck.de/ From nobody Thu Apr 16 08:31:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BC13A0BB7 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:31:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id waKSvVmgCiDp for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFD803A0BB4 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECB2BE4C; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:31:00 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2EccUQXCNpYZ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:30:59 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5EB0BE2C; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:30:51 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1587051052; bh=TfG3IA+cLLutIinuBDjuxAuqCb9tQh3KOejD4uXAkGs=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=MYIIM4jYRhmQyoFhxQ8rwHjCoIfoN1ckU1CLJAzvPl2IJz0tYVJbdGnllWxFkyOQr 52qX9ERJkzuXTLyMijKdW7RPVni5LOhzXi6OPIhdtgP/YXgea6VdOasQgRqSBAumes 1kxrkreVMuVXh95U9ZY/++x7kBanaNt1IxlViZHQ= To: =?UTF-8?Q?Hanno_B=c3=b6ck?= , openpgp@ietf.org Cc: "Tanveer.Salim" References: <20200416171911.0100023c@computer> From: Stephen Farrell Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh 5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+ QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKr EMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZU bUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqO Vz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJg b097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k 4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWavACYEa7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK 7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8DVQu8qNOtPVE/CdaCJ/pbXoYeHz2B1Nvbl9tlyWxn5Xi HzFPJleXc0ksb9SkJokAfwTSZzTxeQPER8la5lsEEPbU/cDTcwARAQABtDJTdGVwaGVuIEZh cnJlbGwgKDIwMTcpIDxzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllPokCQAQTAQgAKgIbAwUJ CZQmAAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCWj6jdwIZAQAKCRBasvrxexcr6o7QD/9m x9DPJetmW794RXmNTrbTJ44zc/tJbcLdRBh0KBn9OW/EaAqjDmgNJeCMyJTKr1ywaps8HGUN hLEVkc14NUpgi4/Zkrbi3DmTp25OHj6wXBS5qVMyVynTMEIjOfeFFyxG+48od+Xn7qg6LT7G rHeNf+z/r0v9+8eZ1Ip63kshQDGhhpmRMKu4Ws9ZvTW2ACXkkTFaSGYJj3yIP4R6IgwBYGMz DXFX6nS4LA1s3pcPNxOgrvCyb60AiJZTLcOk/rRrpZtXB1XQc23ZZmrlTkl2HaThL6w3YKdi Ti1NbuMeOxZqtXcUshII45sANm4HuWNTiRh93Bn5bN6ddjgsaXEZBKUBuUaPBl7gQiQJcAlS 3MmGgVS4ZoX8+VaPGpXdQVFyBMRFlOKOC5XJESt7wY0RE2C8PFm+5eywSO/P1fkl9whkMgml 3OEuIQiP2ehRt/HVLMHkoM9CPQ7t6UwdrXrvX+vBZykav8x9U9M6KTgfsXytxUl6Vx5lPMLi 2/Jrsz6Mzh/IVZa3xjhq1OLFSI/tT2ji4FkJDQbO+yYUDhcuqfakDmtWLMxecZsY6O58A/95 8Qni6Xeq+Nh7zJ7wNcQOMoDGj+24di2TX1cKLzdDMWFaWzlNP5dB5VMwS9Wqj1Z6TzKjGjru q8soqohwb2CK9B3wzFg0Bs1iBI+2RuFnxLkCDQRaPVAyARAA+g3R0HzGr/Dl34Y07XqGqzq5 SU0nXIu9u8Ynsxj7gR5qb3HgUWYEWrHW2jHOByXnvkffucf5yzwrsvw8Q8iI8CFHiTYHPpey 4yPVn6R0w/FOMcY70eTIu/k6EEFDlDbs09DtKcrsT9bmN0XoRxITlXwWTufYqUnmS+YkAuk+ TLCtUin7OdaS2uU6Ata3PLQSeM2ZsUQMmYmHPwB9rmf+q2I005AJ9Q1SPQ2KNg/8xOGxo13S VuaSqYRQdpV93RuCOzg4vuXtR+gP0KQrus/P2ZCEPvU9cXF/2MIhXgOz207lv3iE2zGyNXld /n8spvWk+0bH5Zqd9Wcba/rGcBhmX9NKKDARZqjkv/zVEP1X97w1HsNYeUFNcg2lk9zQKb4v l1jx/Uz8ukzH2QNhU4R39dbF/4AwWuSVkGW6bTxHJqGs6YimbfdQqxTzmqFwz3JP0OtXX5q/ 6D4pHwcmJwEiDNzsBLl6skPSQ0Xyq3pua/qAP8MVm+YxCxJQITqZ8qjDLzoe7s9X6FLLC/DA L9kxl5saVSfDbuI3usH/emdtn0NA9/M7nfgih92zD92sl1yQXHT6BDa8xW1j+RU4P+E0wyd7 zgB2UeYgrp2IIcfG+xX2uFG5MJQ/nYfBoiALb0+dQHNHDtFnNGY3Oe8z1M9c5aDG3/s29QbJ +w7hEKKo9YMAEQEAAYkCJQQYAQgADwUCWj1QMgIbDAUJCZQmAAAKCRBasvrxexcr6qwvD/9b Rek3kfN8Q+jGrKl8qwY8HC5s4mhdDJZI/JP2FImf5J2+d5/e8UJ4fcsT79E0/FqX3Z9wZr6h sofPqLh1/YzDsYkZDHTYSGrlWGP/I5kXwUmFnBZHzM3WGrL3S7ZmCYMdudhykxXXjq7M6Do1 oxM8JofrXGtwBTLv5wfvvygJouVCVe87Ge7mCeY5vey1eUi4zSSF1zPpR6gg64w2g4TXM5qt SwkZVOv1g475LsGlYWRuJV8TA67yp1zJI7HkNqCo8KyHX0DPOh9c+Sd9ZX4aqKfqH9HIpnCL AYEgj7vofeix7gM3kQQmwynqq32bQGQBrKJEYp2vfeO30VsVx4dzuuiC5lyjUccVmw5D72J0 FlGrfEm0kw6D1qwyBg0SAMqamKN6XDdjhNAtXIaoA2UMZK/vZGGUKbqTgDdk0fnzOyb2zvXK CiPFKqIPAqKaDHg0JHdGI3KpQdRNLLzgx083EqEc6IAwWA6jSz+6lZDV6XDgF0lYqAYIkg3+ 6OUXUv6plMlwSHquiOc/MQXHfgUP5//Ra5JuiuyCj954FD+MBKIj8eWROfnzyEnBplVHGSDI ZLzL3pvV14dcsoajdeIH45i8DxnVm64BvEFHtLNlnliMrLOrk4shfmWyUqNlzilXN2BTFVFH 4MrnagFdcFnWYp1JPh96ZKjiqBwMv/H0kw== Message-ID: <0cd3b3b4-f510-6884-7dec-07202f1c504a@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:30:50 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200416171911.0100023c@computer> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wPDXhLR6zBaOC21k9Qqik2hNoWCrlHs2m" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:31:06 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --wPDXhLR6zBaOC21k9Qqik2hNoWCrlHs2m Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="WtelFLGIlnJBowsgMzeRB9MG7YvbX8Lde"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: =?UTF-8?Q?Hanno_B=c3=b6ck?= , openpgp@ietf.org Cc: "Tanveer.Salim" Message-ID: <0cd3b3b4-f510-6884-7dec-07202f1c504a@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization References: <20200416171911.0100023c@computer> In-Reply-To: <20200416171911.0100023c@computer> --WtelFLGIlnJBowsgMzeRB9MG7YvbX8Lde Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------09F96410AFAC3A31B936C8D1" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------09F96410AFAC3A31B936C8D1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 16/04/2020 16:19, Hanno B=C3=B6ck wrote: > FWIW I believe the pros and cons of the different AEAD ciphers are of > very minor relevance, yet the algorithm zoo is a big downside. From wha= t > I know openpgp has still not published a standardized AEAD. My proposal= > would be to choose one and only one AEAD and declare all other > algorithms as deprecated. And which one almost doesn't matter. And I'm > pretty sure Jason would agree with me on that, but feel free to ask him= =2E +1 to that. Even though the semantics of deprecated for mail and pgp applications in general is tricky, I think this'd make sense. S. --------------09F96410AFAC3A31B936C8D1 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nem CP5PMvmh5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kT q0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtE gvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy +pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5 iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9 to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghV B5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5 FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWavACYEa7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK 7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8DVQu8qNOtPVE/CdaCJ/pbXoYeHz2B1Nvbl9t lyWxn5XiHzFPJleXc0ksb9SkJokAfwTSZzTxeQPER8la5lsEEPbU/cDTcwARAQAB tCFTdGVwaGVuIEZhcnJlbGwgPHN0ZXBoZW5AamVsbC5pZT6JAj0EEwEIACcFAlo9 UYwCGwMFCQmUJgAFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQWrL68XsXK+qG CxAApYHWYgGOIL3G6/OpkejdAkQoCVQAK8LJUSf6vzwost4iVfxIKcKW/3RqKNKk rRl8beJ7j1CWXAz9+VXAOsE9+zNxXIDgGA7HlvJnhffl+qwibVgiHgUcJFhCSbBr sjC+1uULaTU8zYEyET//GOGPLF+X+degkE/sesh4zcEAjF7fGPnlncdCCH3tvPZZ sdTcjwOCRVonKsDgQzBTCMz/RPBfEFX44HZx4g1UQAcCA4xlucY8QkJEyCrSNGpG nvGK8DcGSmnstl1/a9fnlhpdFxieX3oY2phJ1WKkYTn6Advrek3UP71CKxpgtPmk d3iUUz/VZa0Cv6YxQXskspRDVEvdCMYSQBtJPQ4y2+5UxVR9GIQXenwYp9AP2niv Voh+ITsDWWeWnnvYMq07rSDjq0nGdj41MJkNX+Yb2PXVyXItcj5ybE3T2+y3pSBG FEZYJGuaL4NwtBJFMOdOtBmUOPbetS2971EL3Izxb7ibOZWDwexv+8R6SWYfP1wV N3p46RyBQuXqJV8ccE11m6vtZTGSYgnLUUFZMRQYH+0hwuYe0T3AA18xDdSYsa8v ovCCd3l5S4UNzIM2PMChqGrEzKapUpZg7+8ACcxRU3b9Ihd7WYjJ+pQPCoWYKozv tEvenbNpE/govO/ED3B14e+R2yevRPjRrsN7PJzSf15fQLuJARwEEAEIAAYFAlo9 UqAACgkQLzyHNoBfjaLrSwf+MIHbFRQ4O5cmLYR5sIByWelN3SuRN/gW8rpKo9Ok Cz6An8uV/iCXy5tNMLzzi0BFl8f22DwBcC5qy9qnlIAdogWam1qWoTAoAD8veEqm uKhYrqJsCcAyNrKYmK0hP3rpHxx1LySDmKYXmw/8qtBXKHTouMm+5tSsznhykRMT AAr2p7PSaHgo+hIVaW/rKSspHjDhhZS+G9mtOZad1IH29M6G1Q1NCO0Ywe8krKLQ IAQlFxtgvOqpPOZNzeKBa/+KbE8TGgMWrkOhC8OeEM5PVzdDhlhD9kPzB/pCKDF5 DofJ/ZRqnDpbKPQ0bsW38AOig3kOc0A27awiBEw3urqR1YkCMwQQAQgAHRYhBH4X CgRchM9GDit5oBDvedn9g1MSBQJbtyScAAoJEBDvedn9g1MSI/oP/0A9J9nrnBMq Zpm857lfYWw+rshLK+tyeP4OQeOqnDFvs9jePpcyJLG3DF2r6VbVKPQq+AE6Uf5h cJBDEN6BjEhRPSbLcqG3A1cz/nNwm8rPmNp+oKhmaBBQGxwciMLmzgynsDydnjPp MyEs04zvsbsl4vrp2095o105l8KcrrxQrioFjbwveGwHQK9bxJKhx9D+gIk+MouB ur45UDKTZkMZrr9FGrtkyXCGAxvKdcNC5Oa8z9sj1rcUJfG/OpVAMWhArdlZbFUQ yoX6pU2Zb1CR2qpWAVerGSfBhmfCyStjARqaKxlftjO+Bj3Jj73Cr5eqej3qB5+V 4BCsPjr4RLvVbYUCPsRdxWc+nBLlfVYkRURu21g1hFm5KFPjgUkyo1s4vjUOY8Dy I+xLGF7f/IhUBG6l+Vswhpwu7ydalZkeFiPx5xna5NfbEYxvsIf71DvipGvIOaHv X4egWoFgm8n/9c3rcMxJtpwHPSsUt5dgLsyu6VE0IbvOAc3dN7CWJ355DVFJq9Zg 2YVf0izSpyyzJeGsgkfjW6xpmdvZxuT2UcN4BTcm6vYqueASGrb3lfhzC5gpeVsc /MoSjTS65vNWbpzONZWMZuLEFraxWJzC0JrDK3NCd0VN3kstqGkVbUIiYOnUm8Vu 4zoVMLlGWzHLIGoPRG2nRezn1YyNfyb5iQGcBBABCgAGBQJbxcflAAoJEGo7ETk8 pK1gE7QL/ApC5P68W5DrI1787WJVZv1u4t/g39vTr7Xer3UMTVQg10vpa7pmqOGh jIDzDMg3Pe3K3M7fVzfAlUA1qw6ne4RCueVoRKpubeF4AlYbMr0K6hNCPjt5uAxm bBVuejKTc6pru5rv5gKL0nDbr+Snft5xt7juBLSSimw0/41sZnkjCxo9rF/RA/v6 +uWyK171RKmsEYu8fFtw1eqUNt/Xj792TUixE3pxXheNtQtZGk/9P3W83ChhG4Fh 5EQsn0pIh9wZIAbMRLpgRKyW87fWHZC8/YH8h7afarvn9Thl5pFUldCe22mNJj6K LChn2aEHQd+PdY1GBpZEcmNEUPuovwzatM0h64hCzTm41eDqRfihZVBT7TbfXQnv 8rywa42Mk756RGzzEZcQEhwQXZcMQUfxIQQ2VyJo0zG36VdZTQF7TF/4Lz7/3cJ5 6jOIm+dwPXtu+C2wAQuD4USOLt4JWPYpqzDfHYJIND/497P9Z9SuQeahr2ez3DRB g3qsHEjBV7QyU3RlcGhlbiBGYXJyZWxsICgyMDE3KSA8c3RlcGhlbi5mYXJyZWxs QGNzLnRjZC5pZT6JAkAEEwEIACoCGwMFCQmUJgAFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwEC HgECF4AFAlo+o3cCGQEACgkQWrL68XsXK+qO0A//ZsfQzyXrZlu/eEV5jU620yeO M3P7SW3C3UQYdCgZ/TlvxGgKow5oDSXgjMiUyq9csGqbPBxlDYSxFZHNeDVKYIuP 2ZK24tw5k6duTh4+sFwUualTMlcp0zBCIzn3hRcsRvuPKHfl5+6oOi0+xqx3jX/s /69L/fvHmdSKet5LIUAxoYaZkTCruFrPWb01tgAl5JExWkhmCY98iD+EeiIMAWBj Mw1xV+p0uCwNbN6XDzcToK7wsm+tAIiWUy3DpP60a6WbVwdV0HNt2WZq5U5Jdh2k 4S+sN2CnYk4tTW7jHjsWarV3FLISCOObADZuB7ljU4kYfdwZ+WzenXY4LGlxGQSl AblGjwZe4EIkCXAJUtzJhoFUuGaF/PlWjxqV3UFRcgTERZTijguVyREre8GNERNg vDxZvuXssEjvz9X5JfcIZDIJpdzhLiEIj9noUbfx1SzB5KDPQj0O7elMHa1671/r wWcpGr/MfVPTOik4H7F8rcVJelceZTzC4tvya7M+jM4fyFWWt8Y4atTixUiP7U9o 4uBZCQ0GzvsmFA4XLqn2pA5rVizMXnGbGOjufAP/efEJ4ul3qvjYe8ye8DXEDjKA xo/tuHYtk19XCi83QzFhWls5TT+XQeVTMEvVqo9Wek8yoxo67qvLKKqIcG9givQd 8MxYNAbNYgSPtkbhZ8SJARwEEAEIAAYFAlo9UqAACgkQLzyHNoBfjaLzHAgAlWT6 NXEGtw/r1miKNGcopzvzILQ9oB8rKI9U9EL6tOf/y2V5oYee/GyQDb3ZdoPxxYYc Jf+RyiH1nMoqUIZiZJaf3bJXinDZ5+AdfE++UR2NBvqaNyC6u3r24jo1B/sagKbY tWgsYtRqHLD4IWi37MZrVyjBuF7u14Q07+uhjq6mX2O/tHpCYw/Q82tbeTRPyUf1 WQOAfD1kfBpW9PvAva5Iw9FWeXpCXRzwxnCZhYfGfqtuSw6CPBYLdbikqML6FZ7E DuTBb/8um1wK7Y9bgeIQC+CYjhYB5RXa1tDJRab2Js4luCvSR0w/CgHw26293tlv e2Q6UTrmHxP5U22DlokCPQQTAQgAJwUCWj1QMgIbAwUJCZQmAAULCQgHAgYVCAkK CwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBasvrxexcr6tJpD/4rrILH+meP07vrx8wW5eYuqCiP GYnh/CXxIF8eLrfbe5d4QRgtq+w6UeQPMyzKRIRiCoBXB2oJLBZHyxBPxZlg33dT MrEGn8QWKx2iNuz9rZMXyOSWFetuO01d/aUPd5BnbLbIyK5of8xCQlXM6KH8bc+9 gQ7edR9mfLTdvBf2FR522hg8BRBM1imKc3vO8v39+qIHHRjuiwxBBCAOhHtHRsZX ripS0uFA07dM46Oi/E8osjx6fQt/lH5z/PN+2adxYSrLSAXfr1oD3RxYNhuWgyGF L64/VCQb1YGjf0Z5MBPnWm9jgUoOY5K9eNSS0L83WeJjlF5+Q/WOgB+rb49Prm2D Feo9+S9f2V53Llz1WIspXJg6f+n9lmHE94MfQj1GAHCzI0FeL19lvM+LhD8jJSCb hrC3+yobyy/AUOs5Z3E+njjX1FF/VCVAs6iOa6i+XG+Y1hh3ir2y1kckJ5auT10M SU8GEZu9ayU4M3o3N9yxOjaoP0NuQ4MMLL/n/u4u94AeZaHPNBXn/hVfVRRmpRXt GKvJtFAEppGEYezB+bLKIm6XlpPkhnwYzleLZ7AMEco2C6QM8QPB3g3JpS3sqRhA 5rEP4lL16BmijmF+CHoPE/zwgKZbKpyVDqvIW5IDgvfIC2X4pbZDRvGIUKaGSB4+ ksZgUUnNyvfQr2p7jokCMwQQAQgAHRYhBH4XCgRchM9GDit5oBDvedn9g1MSBQJb tySbAAoJEBDvedn9g1MSeKkQAJm44jt1kwHgQgeDBKdjdvl0AjE0xVEQxriZ6lP/ l//34YT0auFfzsYIrChSpQXAEtobBAr4Ohw1Us+BZe+H5P8vm6LRuPwozC3SjwfX 4Iec8+9ot6tIVg4sbedDSgb/CCFVjsmIGcQ1P73JLJTBJ6mxYCV/gn3QC6bwDOFo 7kD9FDHCjRN8XfhHQ4Q9cYyt06uF31qG/aumgWYC9geCGgAwiHgwxNYb9GoJ0iZj CROwbYvLTcQgsVUW2bTmsVR13UVKDsdl02sRV7qcVYW6R0a3Ra8KudX+nt25H5DR Gd382KZ5W8pydsy/viTvD9z6v0ulChBYxAedIvGIClrhbxlLEPmIg4ImVOLGqsUg Vm32J95WOjEkk4PEZ12xSDBtwhSJqmJNboWlfmw43KdIbY8zNhffIO3N6O7FsdGx mqyHeLoTpqY+ySVUPpbuyW8ujnI/J//+6hdTZ9dQsEJQlWngKuWOQ5ma58MPSN88 zllsqhZAFQjNxqnkSzL6ZQ+v/jvuRRe16B80AeO55DsmbWsMv/YLLD1mSi7+Khy2 EtMBhgojWwrGMvdLN6X3mnzNJEscYyLxM9tSk+iySP2sLthK0BVgpAzBSdaf/ezI z60P+neHDzteNFf8Mn7lmgYk1amvZoJ29s5+n2HwxyRL5dVMyMdyQmntubbctfqr Z0tIiQGcBBABCgAGBQJbxcflAAoJEGo7ETk8pK1gnCYMAJY4FeIYjlIXGghFWzsB 4fYwK1+iaFpU3fSto5qcrqVtVPjXpwqczqBWeXGyQxiB0kan4OVAXydIeaP8EAuF CA7paP3s9STLJBO3KurkwyRkPW5zo0X7xVqaVToRsX2Ul98KVJoHYQD1KdezEtwl vpNwiiBr42AYR751Vm6JBVAbQXuFpB3c8bUV0OkkRxNFtL8/2PieHar58n5dntGk bPlPkztahsFqktgacIgXHX5vaT+7YeeZ1DWLOYjGO0wNhkOSeroCmxwJUikU7joB p823L7r5KfpqWTPpSCzVstQKZUGmmoE1qCswY/Ud5wvp9SccpIILkRXj0rZRtfnE 5MpL3hjmtNzfDd9qIsJtBJlSB2hZwAsVm1l+EWN9hG3tqyA43niUMy2n6q690of3 berSiQ+kvY/aC9Hx8I+bKzOV9/J2VUTqfaPZa4Uy2rVX5Q2p69n/PMj7mEer0rCL 3j9V16J9c+s0BSkXoKdtYdB0TWVhBgUybd9qtYcwHWvhP7QuU3RlcGhlbiBGYXJy ZWxsIDxzdGVwaGVuQHRvbGVyYW50bmV0d29ya3MuY29tPokCPQQTAQgAJwUCWj1R WgIbAwUJCZQmAAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBasvrxexcr6jsc EADEcB0WQEZn2AkrzDs1RhL0Lp6cZi0BigofkbcGfdhJyMSs19C0dhvncrAFClVI 6/Udw3yFtDyYtOCf2W3M3A1K6/RfEizCLzTsdFIhni9gOJLlUpXViQtgrlstjk7h qVV3Ooz4BlCqS4cG7rfqf4LQQPpTAuFUEV9I28FBUB2irqC+v4gTysIgpMw0bA1y BU9sX5jE/tRkzqnuzZrkwiobDtRFJ9qp+7O2JtcY4EsVtLAsaodJKc5cF8R4OvB1 n66vxxcgg9Eh4JNWZ47xsaCmAGo1Bcb2jIY35OtgAL7gCGLRSMKTtAaPy1/fEgIq hCljJ9x40Fkn/3r2BX21WC9HFSPFTBz2RluLRzxdgxOrkYK8EiHUPoE5b1AEzZKw 2AbeXfr57f5zYsN3IqfbQLUjMYtUN1wK3Pjb+idD972wyXMWt8uOzlI7b9Ocu+nY m2whBfJv9Pmp3QYTmPz+LB9lH65VNVUSxSXVr5iWXO3qx1HtEiGEqkporMQCTh3T 5Ud3PvMSRBFFKNs9WhJ/Lxz+SV30WLwG6dr5mQqlzAhb4Phc/zekZyXRdS/oDKrB LUucS36O//49JeyRi1QvOfxnfmIqRIAf/k3PoYJmTo5E82//r5Qj3YGlRu78ba0H Arxs+ACD6AnEHHcbswpbtVEKYzlSu0Ar0Dc7vRWM/IyQdIkBHAQQAQgABgUCWj1S oAAKCRAvPIc2gF+NosIsB/9f/29FNla3BJfGIEIDnhrqGD0i9bSa89SqBd++uG06 TQgW5wsqtNcrwn81yZTq6XE6i9VtD4GKfqC0d4KZJr9bnbeD81cI64VOdL8zJWJs 0vj5EIXCobKyX74Kb4uePUyZqwT2Q74I116u/HwA9/FXsPo5isbh4ZqD4t0VHpWk mfq1FPT9a/JPyX46qKqB2Fce/7Qy+SQP1NfkuUlbhUH/JG9aSSYvk3lznNiH41x9 M+FDlL106itXOubrl3oi2fT3fsSedq7uzt+IV0DQEeNaoQAUuwEhdB8IWOMqN2wo DjGVKJftfsSWY9ilZrnDBNDrp0vRqcx33LUMkIw4d7iBiQIzBBABCAAdFiEEfhcK BFyEz0YOK3mgEO952f2DUxIFAlu3JJwACgkQEO952f2DUxJjuw/6ApHSsVTWD4a0 H6FJ23A9Ftpy+aXZ4vYlzkSrfsn2ECrEfK3lXQh/uzwjJUDYZeB1/BQsFZtcYNQO JSSHbQ49BFRLwb1J/wBZG4bbmrkLxnNbKDKQvzxEpclkMW0Dj0J6o7kGrmzIGGrh B+JJN99AcineHRug8ZSFIERRCmigxdhAKU0BFD7P+5HNHltSL3DF1c2fFOf2JrgB KVoE+9RhMZjWNbYetFFLCkjXb5Rpay9zeMm1DxfSTGAnuOwUXW6qq4hnl5+VC/48 ceDZElLLfu7RQUZv44pkSTOWZs+iQoJiHMFHk9wPqyB2Vok1yJ2a2j27WhXrJlPw nZbgJO5RyWDG3p/eVmpl5Uuc2dsfIpR17KnAuWpghK6V+cyFncDoGCl/YG2Mvool sW08FiZh3Ej4dnJjj25TZkeFG74JJDXLvMYpJfSBGnmETv4Dhcm2xPqVMuFuL1qJ lMbVLrMo2GXeo03OzNyvbs+u8WLIaGm5hC7N1CXY8wZs4jo6OJ/expvnc07dEuws 4zT3AiWv3nIouWReRStZy9QkavDocqbyPmilcdPCYk4BsOlzpwwO74hNG7iyl0Kd AlwTxGQ7y0rJou6HYa1TmRhIEr3vKvlW+JfUUrqtjXgsuacTXo4+Ira2JUErL2cY zQMq1j4r1ZyhFnuz93s7Rsx/Nw0+0YuJAZwEEAEKAAYFAlvFx+UACgkQajsROTyk rWCJqwv+NLVPE4sD4sDA2/6Ek7UsRIUkg+S39fhqWsLc4rtw/mDunv8Un61I3K04 fZ2Ry4nF9hZM0a710UvXFbStvrzRJO3EAAcdJR9LTCd19e8UeruQbIee3YT91U4N kC9JMpecfq62/teOAU2e5P3fWYaLs5ZX7zCLwWuBcW2l3SyoljQczM85HhJ3XHm+ FnwQ6D9xRle+lvWTcuC9d1yAyUb8IOospcL2lJTmy8e3r79R24hPlSB4LDe0wEN8 AXbagrcAQZjwyaHyWxjJbTwZ0b43WGdfIqZ1ElOeoffbketPGRmWvx5xUvb2ALFB BdETzV270gs5XDJgJ1SIIKOyDADxwvroTe2jD8C/841eEql5QSow3s/U3zRqk3mt tto8Qw/DN71aeh6dmYSsvd2UjsHw/vofOPRBGxZLEkKTEvMnhmMW9hiKPkPia+Qg evYE020qpKSxLEdWA8nprHwxmGiDNesCfXSC6vm1qfyj5g8HzxSckq9ZaMhKMCo7 vxflUEDuuQINBFo9UDIBEAD6DdHQfMav8OXfhjTteoarOrlJTSdci727xiezGPuB HmpvceBRZgRasdbaMc4HJee+R9+5x/nLPCuy/DxDyIjwIUeJNgc+l7LjI9WfpHTD 8U4xxjvR5Mi7+ToQQUOUNuzT0O0pyuxP1uY3RehHEhOVfBZO59ipSeZL5iQC6T5M sK1SKfs51pLa5ToC1rc8tBJ4zZmxRAyZiYc/AH2uZ/6rYjTTkAn1DVI9DYo2D/zE 4bGjXdJW5pKphFB2lX3dG4I7ODi+5e1H6A/QpCu6z8/ZkIQ+9T1xcX/YwiFeA7Pb TuW/eITbMbI1eV3+fyym9aT7Rsflmp31Zxtr+sZwGGZf00ooMBFmqOS//NUQ/Vf3 vDUew1h5QU1yDaWT3NApvi+XWPH9TPy6TMfZA2FThHf11sX/gDBa5JWQZbptPEcm oazpiKZt91CrFPOaoXDPck/Q61dfmr/oPikfByYnASIM3OwEuXqyQ9JDRfKrem5r +oA/wxWb5jELElAhOpnyqMMvOh7uz1foUssL8MAv2TGXmxpVJ8Nu4je6wf96Z22f Q0D38zud+CKH3bMP3ayXXJBcdPoENrzFbWP5FTg/4TTDJ3vOAHZR5iCunYghx8b7 Ffa4UbkwlD+dh8GiIAtvT51Ac0cO0Wc0Zjc57zPUz1zloMbf+zb1Bsn7DuEQoqj1 gwARAQABiQIlBBgBCAAPBQJaPVAyAhsMBQkJlCYAAAoJEFqy+vF7FyvqrC8P/1tF 6TeR83xD6MasqXyrBjwcLmziaF0Mlkj8k/YUiZ/knb53n97xQnh9yxPv0TT8Wpfd n3BmvqGyh8+ouHX9jMOxiRkMdNhIauVYY/8jmRfBSYWcFkfMzdYasvdLtmYJgx25 2HKTFdeOrszoOjWjEzwmh+tca3AFMu/nB++/KAmi5UJV7zsZ7uYJ5jm97LV5SLjN JIXXM+lHqCDrjDaDhNczmq1LCRlU6/WDjvkuwaVhZG4lXxMDrvKnXMkjseQ2oKjw rIdfQM86H1z5J31lfhqop+of0cimcIsBgSCPu+h96LHuAzeRBCbDKeqrfZtAZAGs okRina9947fRWxXHh3O66ILmXKNRxxWbDkPvYnQWUat8SbSTDoPWrDIGDRIAypqY o3pcN2OE0C1chqgDZQxkr+9kYZQpupOAN2TR+fM7JvbO9coKI8Uqog8CopoMeDQk d0YjcqlB1E0svODHTzcSoRzogDBYDqNLP7qVkNXpcOAXSVioBgiSDf7o5RdS/qmU yXBIeq6I5z8xBcd+BQ/n/9Frkm6K7IKP3ngUP4wEoiPx5ZE5+fPIScGmVUcZIMhk vMvem9XXh1yyhqN14gfjmLwPGdWbrgG8QUe0s2WeWIyss6uTiyF+ZbJSo2XOKVc3 YFMVUUfgyudqAV1wWdZinUk+H3pkqOKoHAy/8fST =3DYzQY -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --------------09F96410AFAC3A31B936C8D1-- --WtelFLGIlnJBowsgMzeRB9MG7YvbX8Lde-- --wPDXhLR6zBaOC21k9Qqik2hNoWCrlHs2m Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAl6YeisACgkQWrL68XsX K+qvKQ/9FUm8j00y9ngSRmqxOYtTwYMPwk7lyzRZOjg7Rm6lo4L3WoAC+AqafLGZ VXd6TzeGGifvyz94tFxQeo0FwSUw1vWIhspSBGA7czVAAi8xJzVc/A/g9/C/ryXS ZHRdVORvOHhqkdwn0IebPty5ee5I7e0EK2QZ8+bv0p600OhDH/V67FIMVAvOSrOy 6FkOKrAo0AUKo8ZXUl0NL4hNFl+xAt5XtdkSoVbWPl/rhmpTTgewBdatCAl24N0I VIqUn0lzqj5jSoAajU6+Hf8NavpoLZnikjsfidJyBNSITlM8o/m9vRSIT+UFTKCI 20tRoo1pB18vQRDYfWLrbCVWFwOTv7CTNu0+zlrNv/ILH/TZTv+SqPzqyna5mXHK TjnhB+1JOYxS+tqyJgSntubOqBg+wKbCzfOTlCe6gwstXi9d0E/Ri18iHTYzOW7p ypJsEzggh9sj2Vxm1yLx3XoY5UeOImju+5IcDvyJ9H4j06gTYcLECEomnmRi8j3l zIYxcNKSmkq/3KYW5RXDMO4oNwlRRyomGfH2ocPeUy2XKvraRHVnvbhfDaa+YGS+ HzRL1dnIrC3jbHYlfzZmJ5q5QeYCMp5mhzIRN4YBNbZg41grjWM9wMHDT2kWwODf rtykK3Lwn2R6md5WkWgKLHW5CyxVj94U9kfSvvr7jvSDF1dHqyc= =cloV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wPDXhLR6zBaOC21k9Qqik2hNoWCrlHs2m-- From nobody Thu Apr 16 09:12:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC36C3A0D61 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eBVLGtKQckrt for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-40131.protonmail.ch (mail-40131.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA8043A0D4B for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:12:03 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1587053528; bh=wbI1Suzs3X7O0AuFPC7PJKIcsRiV9oGWU4DU1bP9TKM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=FW9idav8TpOA38F84Rk4BRrhpbGxvV6gJZojMwILbe34MenyQhcZTBZqUDeI6/Pts kOLlkGYv6rmIGsTjqR0uW9jhhrBhp5h5HPH8nv5AA+xn8TK+XW/Zuc15bB0URoEmVR HAf++cq8D6Bc+8xUE+RBJCr94CR+VgMLEp6Nx6e4= To: Stephen Farrell From: Bart Butler Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Hanno_B=C3=B6ck?= , openpgp@ietf.org, "Tanveer.Salim" Reply-To: Bart Butler Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0cd3b3b4-f510-6884-7dec-07202f1c504a@cs.tcd.ie> References: <20200416171911.0100023c@computer> <0cd3b3b4-f510-6884-7dec-07202f1c504a@cs.tcd.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="---------------------f391900160f005010c2fc7faeb141354"; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Request on Adding ChaCha20-Poly1305 to the OpenPGP Standardization X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:12:13 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) -----------------------f391900160f005010c2fc7faeb141354 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------8d56f2b305a5f8db0db2d0705dc0a149 -----------------------8d56f2b305a5f8db0db2d0705dc0a149 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 I think we are all in agreement on this, with the only multiple options (O= CB and EAX) being present largely to address patent concerns, as Werner sa= id earlier. =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original M= essage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:30 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > = > = > On 16/04/2020 16:19, Hanno B=C3=B6ck wrote: > = > > FWIW I believe the pros and cons of the different AEAD ciphers are of > > very minor relevance, yet the algorithm zoo is a big downside. From wh= at > > I know openpgp has still not published a standardized AEAD. My proposa= l > > would be to choose one and only one AEAD and declare all other > > algorithms as deprecated. And which one almost doesn't matter. And I'm > > pretty sure Jason would agree with me on that, but feel free to ask hi= m. > = > +1 to that. Even though the semantics of deprecated for > mail and pgp applications in general is tricky, I think > this'd make sense. > = > S. > = > openpgp mailing list > openpgp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp -----------------------8d56f2b305a5f8db0db2d0705dc0a149-- -----------------------f391900160f005010c2fc7faeb141354 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wl4EARYKAAYFAl6Yg88ACgkQmQVEZe8zHkS4qwD9HnYU8OsCvzuUxOUwVUL1 hydiPTerMFnZFmW5myQFQZ8A/2Pgksq/hbTdS85VE8p4tw1M2U3N7A147AdP sK1lmIgL =UR/s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----------------------f391900160f005010c2fc7faeb141354-- From nobody Fri Apr 17 03:19:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE033A0784 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:19:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=my.amazin.horse Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WoCqdsiKcJw5 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from my.amazin.horse (my.amazin.horse [5.181.49.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 356E53A090D for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ip4d14cc04.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [77.20.204.4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature ECDSA (P-384) server-digest SHA384) (No client certificate requested) by my.amazin.horse (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 538ED6B2FF for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:18:39 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=my.amazin.horse; s=2020; t=1587118719; bh=gkdMUVAVN3poUHGLO9s8sRiBKgIeQiH6GoKhR7NDE8g=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject; b=DeSzxZ1IN51aJ72fuTlIuzzDIcFw0J2JRo9WPCCN7BRRosWecFdqSDS2NPOaet2Oy LMR3ex21iFxA1YEsdoNgHgWHw70lbQ/hhcojxud63NpoCVYmwFJH7dHhvnoc2+1JB1 BVsbKd/hJ211nsA4BgfNfc++WmqlBDU1Hgpvtc0Q= Message-Id: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:18:30 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Vincent Breitmoser To: openpgp@ietf.org Cc: Autocrypt: addr=look@my.amazin.horse; keydata=mQINBFAB3UABEADCyB/vbIBA3m1Bwc yjTieEMLySwYgt54EQ2hglOocdtIhqC+b05t6sLSkwx2ukxrU2cegnCBkdyF/FZ/+Et638CUEBbf 4bjplwpt2IPLazQgjkwjMuhz0OcYDpMhwimTvh3mIl+0wzpOts6mEmMw0QZdl3RXvIW+NSynOn7q mz/fAv4Htt6lv2Ka0s6R2voyi+5U7CcIqizPad5qZVn2uxmovcFreTzFt6nk37ZbbTfvA3e5F0bR RQeH3viT5XxpJF4Y76v/Ua+5N3Kd18K0sX85rD1G7cmxR2CZ5gW1X24sDqdYZdDbf10N39UIwjJH PTeuVMQqry792Ap0Etyj135YFCE0loDnZYKvy2Y1i0RuEdTUIonIHrLhe2J0bXQGbQImHIyMgB9/ lva8D+yvy2gyf2vjRhmJEEco7w9FdzP7p3PhKrUiTjRsjHw8iV8LOCFx9njZOq9mism9ZZ16tZpx 9mXOf11HcH1RtVuyyQRS/4ytQPzwshXdSDDW6Btkmo9AbZQKC54/hSyzpp3Br2T2xDH7ecnonDB/ jv8rWuKXSTbX3xWAIrNBNDcTYaNe4jkms4HF7jJE19eRlqsXMMx6Fxvrh4TtKICwJYJ3AUmXrK3X Ti/mjqYfJ1fpBn54rWs8nhSR1fuZPD+aMlcP8BDUPlNKPKtj0DGSh3/VlnnwARAQABtClWaW5jZW 50IEJyZWl0bW9zZXIgPGxvb2tAbXkuYW1hemluLmhvcnNlPokCOAQTAQIAIgUCVTNZmgIbAwYLCQ gHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQe9GDIN6t+hHcVg//aeiijNqsQ3pjbFQn3VvND7hNfJ vrVcLZ+U4kOzXPF818aVdOnDyNXyE17vBDDcvaZ730sCsZIRZJ3KhUJ+nPvdttKjUIGLARmx+pA3 Jl3IIv2uLtOb3I0TMuyfIGJVGF+q10/CeDMKVjKlmyOVrR0opkel+KEoN7VLq3Hf3zPKENO1HBgp LHeP31tlb9cgs+u4o2wLrVe9myHbuFBW7EjWbSvdz2zliwbsFeFVLMNcWrKAU0GkkiH69SgnwmXU RkhGma4L27GLtkHHufsxfbcPqPtmtCttsGZU4EmrghGUqVyDOxnn8ZqybzLrRfpin+OCIX+aHJz5 r2L8qtrP0LorNMX3Gopd26vfhNvq/wq8xk++bW1R5FmkaUhx9h+DhO2ybcg7p/E8JHc8zrWv+bb3 0o9lkrOaU8GxXrgtb1cjtbb+MxFvjm0Elw7MSZDG7sF/APFU6cwuIA9Nai/OGAUCSt/W2ecS8Zox cWWbGSEiDvjtEctkpmHjfVuGoL34966Olm41VdH+NjgoSYUJKx4Mty8DRcZxdyoXll84LvDkEEYK ZqOIACsJf8CDFvUkmhXc+moCj15Yxtj3/RslRVEiOUyrpDwB72zWcZG8YnzoyGxhcRIc/gFejO/y SI8bzCpYngeuTb5NjFG+ChGiInHbQcFeHBlaHtKi2o/B5axIO5Ag0EVDvOgQEQALJby/ztliToGE u1lslvWQUQ6teKZVUQ7hy9bM4N83G0AGLatUBHtY6PkJBe4XkIw3sK7LoFCV2W4GSt4zWp9l+kG3 /J8Ow7EFjN0F7DrCg0M0lMg9dQz9jYSoBR8skaH3BRzCq9AKIVKV94poL/G65289L7zKDHoZnnyF qbBtedYZir0SZx+kiouZ1qnmxRPaYmH2fkuiuvYEAyzLDLYM8F5gQhdZM4YVtuvSICYPet0z4CDi JX/vZmDi3AzzoEVaKeAM/0H9f9Ni547J2+8dZSllgTrA+fq0aMJVScAObIxTAQtEq0DoNBzPpVrm W10b4bmgePrAvNkifqSr5StymSBgwvoeW6GrJiyN4XhoLOadZzwgjqioR1nXw5tXtrr5sYdkZ06b 1WWHkxtu1hFTdLC7RYNxY07ytLNM+C2lplCwCwlWB7RwI9BL1Dhre4kv8uaaX2Gksaq9mDf9MSDW qQ0TJ/RAiwMGmFrzBEYI1J2Oyeshi/dqW4/OiZAukOIlxOnt6u8zU2KL6Qjxqqna0oTbS4Zv3fRd YkuUCL6CDEJdkuRAiW+Gw+lKcMjXqApEqixhaDkoB/kwtu+2gIFTzAxMfwFN1YtNc0kJZWnFkGIW MrrwTcOwAFzlFz7wn/EyMFtg+ERcqMX0+olXDwM8MODI2+BzulPuEDEteCw09hABEBAAGJAh8EGA ECAAkFAlQ7zoECGwwACgkQe9GDIN6t+hFjuQ//UQyg49f8TytUYQaBb8R0UfI+KhQFs1Nsz2z8a3 0CD1MeiHHYWdAcomVvTkg4g5LbnYHVDrj/XagY3FN/AIE97usFbsTG+rsWAOLi7N2dN2ehWZ634k MvrgyC9uTiOdkw31+B8K5MpyySgD8e6SAzRfiu06/bcQOUyJifw8Hudpj9by4uyGhSH+kHu4afrp OduUighbsGFtcuRwwQ/w/oSk68XvPUgiOQWMZh/pVoXdFyFvrt/hgArCi8dfy5UPK58nl7jPnu/I uQXrJ50nNAFIIxPVeo2/B83KAnEZPU+qWZsdba0V+FIIQQVizLtQFMuJJk4/UTAOfJ2tBpQ9PADX 6/scqDE7unXNWdxcHTjK7KmWjXC8CyhGOx8V/rb7Ial4mZo4cTED6SNlO7dV1XYwnSctL2HCYNM3 RUe4eJ7JWuu7/Nbf6yip2eq7BQKZ9hAH/se/OSZNYsEkZ4pxUc8W5U3uAZImUwC6L74SM0jBZIuD mQhOYX6sZZ6urIn/MYlj4/hqSBFS4vTK7nXRLmtr7+5T5U5srVseUiYc+l9pu9/XD8zGIu+M2xEd 41NwP44GDQTQm0bFljRv5fSblwmi56YHPFQUIh2RZNX3kOJgeyQ3enw5uY+7ocKRVP38hpnffliL lJcO6TtHWnElS3pACbTQM0RHJox3zqU3q6K3c= Archived-At: Subject: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:19:00 -0000 Hi OpenPGP folks, Five years ago, the OpenPGP working group was reopened. It was chartered as a "crypto refresh" of OpenPGP, and a decision was consciously made to not add features beyond that. The newly reopened working group strayed from this goal quite a bit, got lost in a confused silence, and was closed again due to inactivity. Despite the formal status of the working group as closed, rfc4880bis is still being worked on. This work happens on this mailing list, but most of the actual progress happens on the openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis repository on gitlab: https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis There have also been a couple of releases of this spec as I-Ds, and it is used in practice as a reference by implementors. Since the original reopening, the role of the editor has been held by Werner Koch. The formal description of the Document Editor is described in [BCP25] as "The Document Editor is responsible for ensuring that the contents of the document accurately reflect the decisions that have been made by the working group." Following this, I believe the following to be a reasonable set of expectations towards an editor: 1. Communicate decisions and updates to the working group. 2. Foster cooperation. 3. Work out specification content from group consensus. Myself and others have been increasingly dissatisfied with the way that all of these expectations have not been met in the editing process of RFC4880bis. More subtle attempts at communicating this have failed, which is why I am bringing the issue up on this list. I'd rather spare everyone the exercise, but it seems necessary to give a few concrete examples of this dissatisfaction. Feel free to skip ahead. == The repository on gitlab currently has seven open merge requests, that have been open for many months. Those range from trivial fixes for typos, to dkg's work on User IDs and replacement of Revocation Keys, and a fix for a test vector(!) that received no attention in six months. On the other side of things, Werner commits his own changes directly to master, sometimes without any communication. A recent example from two weeks ago, was the introduction of a new "key block subpacket": https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/commit/30d8397c9fd304691d5628813a38cd61389c76c7 Regardless of whether this mechanism is a good idea (it probably is), or whether the spec wording is good (is "key block" the best term?), there was no attempt made to find consensus about it, on this list or elsewhere. (This feature was also implemented into GnuPG on the same day it was pushed to master in the spec, and released as a backport into GnuPG 2.2.20 just a few days later.) As noted above, the decision process of whether a proposal makes it into the spec seems arbitrary at best. But even when consensus is achieved, the actual editing process is haphazard. In August of 2019, dkg and myself worked out a draft for "attested certifications". This work found some consensus on the ml (including from Werner), and eventually led to a merge request: https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/merge_requests/20 When Justus Winter and Heiko Stamer reviewed this MR, they found an oddity about the way that signatures were made, and also two typos. Despite those issues that obviously still required attention, Werner merged the MR, leaving no comment and offering no follow-up. The typos and cryptographic oddity of the signature remain to this day. Facilitation of cooperation has failed as well. On March 19th last year, Justus Winter opened an issue on the repository saying that he could not build the spec in its current form: https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/issues/7 Six months after the issue was posted, Werner closed it with the single remark "I can't replicate that." dkg reopened the issue, noting that the toolchain works only on Debian stretch (then already oldstable by a few months), but did not in fact work on Debian stable. The ticket remains open to this day, even though the issue itself was eventually resolved with a merge request from dkg that converted the toolchain to kramdown. This is not an exhaustive list. I tried to pick examples that illustrate their points in a clear way, and hopefully relatively free of personal bias. == I appreciate the work Werner has put into RFC4880bis, and of course into OpenPGP in general. However, a document that is published under the ietf-* namespace bears a quality of officialness, and thus an expectation to reflect consensus of the working group. The draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc4880bis-* documents do not, in my opinion and that of several others I have talked to, meet this expectation. In consequence, I formally request Werner Koch to step down from his position as editor for the OpenPGP specification. Of course, this means we will need a new editor. I'm confident that we can find someone for this role, once the air has cleared a bit. As a general thought for a way forward, I would suggest to restart work on RFC4880bis conceptually, in the way it was originally chartered as a pure crypto refresh. A good starting point would be for a new editor to bring the original RFC4880 into a modifiable state with a modern toolchain, to allow work on actual set of patches going from 4880 to 4880bis. A portion of the changes made on RFC4880bis so far certainly don't match the chartered "crypto refresh", so it makes sense to cherry-pick from them in an ordered fashion, with a check for consensus and implementation status. I would further suggest to orient future work more on concrete proposals, i.e. diffs against the spec. By explicitly asking contributors to submit and maintain concrete patches as a basis for discussion, we encourage contributions that are better thought out, continuously reflect the state of thinking, and can be weighed against one another - or combined on their merits - more easily. I apologize for bringing up this unpleasant topic. Thanks for reading, and considering. - Vincent Breitmoser [BCP25]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp25#section-6.3 From nobody Fri Apr 17 03:36:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F0E3A085E for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:35:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ribose.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6eMz2TcwvTFB for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from APC01-SG2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr1310073.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.131.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A16EB3A085C for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:35:53 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=nnQ0zY0igDel3FidUoxv9E6AQlJ0Pc52WUvFXTtVomdCfOarwZOZS0xjYMmNU5pm39RwcJkOnMO+khVzfcOgAwaangYGLv3YDqpPWWybXyXC3ccEftHzv6OXWxWIXtZUcq+2qtbD/5CUnrKvJRotv9/D35fX5gjNiTPWvaXeDQRO3eY9mIzOfkTavJeLWVTOBKHFeh4hcSFv8QnJLk5teDipRX9jDK76jT8BhYeRc9Tr7kuBIxJR0i4TTlVD+aytZnP6ezk0888qqSrSsHRcN4dr5zapr/DWWEn9GxZneW6gJb4ZRYumQjakXIZ6pnblaHqm/YiybGkB+8o/IeSeDw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=0zS1Q3t1wlm5bO5AR9sTzsPHy54keiSiQj9HEW6K11Y=; b=LEQu3xit5oEtFkOvNqiMOvGkBys1XMlhzDe3ra9yQr4mTbXPDslHI/5knvZ1N4CS4leLL18/Xolmzm+GS9uqrDFbUMCIL5WMvvnooRAQNFfi2Wa8jJINdzf/jPCmuBHSPlGneKZTgySP+KCMsOTQy7ZkRh7KVjhfodY5VUaNsSzUAVLVtSiBc7MJdnNOcnKRTiebDKPgI+D9AqnbPhsB5+yU8Dd+gbMUhsIND6QxZvGigmL8EGuLE6iYufQXRbAbmOoBEhmXpHGnzwipiWDH5G0TR1jWL9ARSapqXMprRg20gY8uWp0TwV7vRb4fQ3WFtBj2QRswknUbvYB92NDF/Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ribose.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ribose.com; dkim=pass header.d=ribose.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ribose.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=0zS1Q3t1wlm5bO5AR9sTzsPHy54keiSiQj9HEW6K11Y=; b=TIRvxZ+9HELK7RPPAufOuzi/26U3H5iekJLUeQ7ClsobwR/CkBNek1n1XOavqoBgPUCek7gk01aBQ2joSN1jZ7cKVezLztL9hODTDBRgK0646MJXVLZM79JNbKpGo2eEGNPwiVKg5o+PEUiWJIHTyCKVO77NAsEEgbdWmsBy7xY= Received: from HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (20.177.167.212) by HK0PR01MB3459.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (52.132.236.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2900.18; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:35:48 +0000 Received: from HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::5115:9eb0:2cd0:9c7a]) by HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::5115:9eb0:2cd0:9c7a%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2900.028; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:35:48 +0000 From: Ronald Tse To: "openpgp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down Thread-Index: AQHWFKGp2IdQB7/aQUG8nRcMszGApah9HqcA Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:35:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> In-Reply-To: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=tse@ribose.com; x-originating-ip: [118.140.121.70] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 60164359-be75-495f-d04e-08d7e2bb1805 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HK0PR01MB3459: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0376ECF4DD x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(346002)(39830400003)(396003)(136003)(376002)(366004)(8936002)(66476007)(966005)(81156014)(5660300002)(316002)(33656002)(8676002)(6506007)(53546011)(186003)(66946007)(6916009)(6512007)(71200400001)(66556008)(6486002)(36756003)(2906002)(66446008)(64756008)(76116006)(508600001)(91956017)(26005)(2616005)(86362001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ribose.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: KSilJDrt7uiXWG6zAV5SAJl5nS4CsqzfrLhkTvzr1lZaWfQlD70AGx+Ty1JQ89zydjZ7xzYJsb7avV0ij3KSDKWcancuRGSgLkdHPmCj8aSplSplWphkIBuzH1AKYrNeGHeU/6LyTkvkr7G4xZ/MCw== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B74328A22CC04D0A8C07E9D52DCC46B3ribosecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ribose.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 60164359-be75-495f-d04e-08d7e2bb1805 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Apr 2020 10:35:48.4541 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d98a04ff-ef98-489b-b33c-13c23a2e091a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: uu/WiI4SmOx/N1nzAsRQNPyWV4HvmsKRaXQ+I2Sf9GxK8+wG7xa1uJeJITBlaa7R X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HK0PR01MB3459 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:35:57 -0000 --_000_B74328A22CC04D0A8C07E9D52DCC46B3ribosecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V2l0aG91dCBnb2luZyBpbnRvIGRldGFpbHMgb2YgdGhlc2UgYWNjdXNhdGlvbnM6DQoNCjEuIEkg ZGlzYWdyZWUgd2l0aCB0aGUgcHJvcG9zYWwgdG8gcmVtb3ZlIFdlcm5lciBmcm9tIGJlaW5nIHRo ZSBkb2N1bWVudCBlZGl0b3Igb2YgUkZDIDQ4ODBiaXMuIE15IGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ugd2l0aCBXZXJu ZXLigJlzIG9wZW5uZXNzIGFuZCBleHBlcnRpc2UgaW4gdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBoYXMgYmVlbiBn cmVhdC4NCg0KMi4gSSBkaXNhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBwcm9wb3NhbCB0byDigJxzdGFydCBvdmVy 4oCdIGEgcmVmcmVzaCBvZiBSRkMgNDg4MGJpcy4gQWxsIGV4aXN0aW5nIGNvbnRlbnQgaW5jb3Jw b3JhdGVkIGluIDQ4ODBiaXMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGF0dHJpYnV0ZWQgdG8gY29uc2Vuc3VzICh3aGVu IHRoZSBXRyBzdGlsbCBleGlzdGVkKSwgeWV0IHRoaXMgcHJvcG9zYWwgc2VlbXMgdG8gY29tcGxl dGVseSBvdmVydGhyb3cgdGhhdC4NCg0KSXQgaXMgaGFyZGx5IFdlcm5lcuKAmXMgZmF1bHQgdGhh dCBjb25zZW5zdXMgaXMgZGlmZmljdWx0IHRvIGNvbWUgYnkgaW4gdGhpcyBncm91cC4gR2l2ZW4g dGhhdCB0aGUgT3BlblBHUCBXb3JraW5nIEdyb3VwIGhhcyDigJxhbHJlYWR54oCdIGJlZW4gZGlz YmFuZGVkLCB0aGVzZSBjb21wbGFpbnRzIG9mIHBhcnRpY2lwYXRpb24gYXJlIHVuZmFpcmx5IGF0 dHJpYnV0ZWQgdG93YXJkcyB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgZWRpdG9yIG9mIFJGQyA0ODgwYmlzLg0KDQpU aGUgc2FpZCBpc3N1ZXMgd291bGQgYmUgYmV0dGVyIHJlc29sdmVkIGJ5IGZpbmFsaXppbmcgdGhl IFJGQyA0ODgwYmlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGFuZCBwdWJsaXNoaW5nIGl0Lg0KDQpLaW5kIHJlZ2FyZHMs DQpSb24NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpSb25hbGQg VHNlDQpSaWJvc2UgSW5jLg0KDQpPbiBBcHIgMTcsIDIwMjAsIGF0IDY6MTggUE0sIFZpbmNlbnQg QnJlaXRtb3NlciA8bG9vaz00MG15LmFtYXppbi5ob3JzZUBkbWFyYy5pZXRmLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86 bG9vaz00MG15LmFtYXppbi5ob3JzZUBkbWFyYy5pZXRmLm9yZz4+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQoNCkhpIE9w ZW5QR1AgZm9sa3MsDQoNCkZpdmUgeWVhcnMgYWdvLCB0aGUgT3BlblBHUCB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3Vw IHdhcyByZW9wZW5lZC4gSXQgd2FzIGNoYXJ0ZXJlZCBhcw0KYSAiY3J5cHRvIHJlZnJlc2giIG9m IE9wZW5QR1AsIGFuZCBhIGRlY2lzaW9uIHdhcyBjb25zY2lvdXNseSBtYWRlIHRvIG5vdCBhZGQN CmZlYXR1cmVzIGJleW9uZCB0aGF0LiBUaGUgbmV3bHkgcmVvcGVuZWQgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBz dHJheWVkIGZyb20gdGhpcyBnb2FsDQpxdWl0ZSBhIGJpdCwgZ290IGxvc3QgaW4gYSBjb25mdXNl ZCBzaWxlbmNlLCBhbmQgd2FzIGNsb3NlZCBhZ2FpbiBkdWUgdG8gaW5hY3Rpdml0eS4NCkRlc3Bp dGUgdGhlIGZvcm1hbCBzdGF0dXMgb2YgdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgYXMgY2xvc2VkLCByZmM0 ODgwYmlzIGlzIHN0aWxsDQpiZWluZyB3b3JrZWQgb24uIFRoaXMgd29yayBoYXBwZW5zIG9uIHRo aXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0LCBidXQgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgYWN0dWFsDQpwcm9ncmVzcyBoYXBwZW5z IG9uIHRoZSBvcGVucGdwLXdnL3JmYzQ4ODBiaXMgcmVwb3NpdG9yeSBvbiBnaXRsYWI6DQpodHRw czovL2dpdGxhYi5jb20vb3BlbnBncC13Zy9yZmM0ODgwYmlzIFRoZXJlIGhhdmUgYWxzbyBiZWVu IGEgY291cGxlIG9mDQpyZWxlYXNlcyBvZiB0aGlzIHNwZWMgYXMgSS1EcywgYW5kIGl0IGlzIHVz ZWQgaW4gcHJhY3RpY2UgYXMgYSByZWZlcmVuY2UgYnkNCmltcGxlbWVudG9ycy4NCg0KU2luY2Ug dGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIHJlb3BlbmluZywgdGhlIHJvbGUgb2YgdGhlIGVkaXRvciBoYXMgYmVlbiBo ZWxkIGJ5IFdlcm5lcg0KS29jaC4gVGhlIGZvcm1hbCBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgRG9jdW1l bnQgRWRpdG9yIGlzIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBpbiBbQkNQMjVdIGFzDQoiVGhlIERvY3VtZW50IEVkaXRv ciBpcyByZXNwb25zaWJsZSBmb3IgZW5zdXJpbmcgdGhhdCB0aGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhlDQpk b2N1bWVudCBhY2N1cmF0ZWx5IHJlZmxlY3QgdGhlIGRlY2lzaW9ucyB0aGF0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBt YWRlIGJ5IHRoZSB3b3JraW5nDQpncm91cC4iIEZvbGxvd2luZyB0aGlzLCBJIGJlbGlldmUgdGhl IGZvbGxvd2luZyB0byBiZSBhIHJlYXNvbmFibGUgc2V0IG9mDQpleHBlY3RhdGlvbnMgdG93YXJk cyBhbiBlZGl0b3I6DQoNCjEuIENvbW11bmljYXRlIGRlY2lzaW9ucyBhbmQgdXBkYXRlcyB0byB0 aGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cC4NCjIuIEZvc3RlciBjb29wZXJhdGlvbi4NCjMuIFdvcmsgb3V0IHNw ZWNpZmljYXRpb24gY29udGVudCBmcm9tIGdyb3VwIGNvbnNlbnN1cy4NCg0KTXlzZWxmIGFuZCBv dGhlcnMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGluY3JlYXNpbmdseSBkaXNzYXRpc2ZpZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUgd2F5IHRo YXQgYWxsIG9mDQp0aGVzZSBleHBlY3RhdGlvbnMgaGF2ZSBub3QgYmVlbiBtZXQgaW4gdGhlIGVk aXRpbmcgcHJvY2VzcyBvZiBSRkM0ODgwYmlzLiBNb3JlDQpzdWJ0bGUgYXR0ZW1wdHMgYXQgY29t bXVuaWNhdGluZyB0aGlzIGhhdmUgZmFpbGVkLCB3aGljaCBpcyB3aHkgSSBhbSBicmluZ2luZw0K dGhlIGlzc3VlIHVwIG9uIHRoaXMgbGlzdC4NCg0KSSdkIHJhdGhlciBzcGFyZSBldmVyeW9uZSB0 aGUgZXhlcmNpc2UsIGJ1dCBpdCBzZWVtcyBuZWNlc3NhcnkgdG8gZ2l2ZSBhIGZldw0KY29uY3Jl dGUgZXhhbXBsZXMgb2YgdGhpcyBkaXNzYXRpc2ZhY3Rpb24uIEZlZWwgZnJlZSB0byBza2lwIGFo ZWFkLg0KDQo9PQ0KDQpUaGUgcmVwb3NpdG9yeSBvbiBnaXRsYWIgY3VycmVudGx5IGhhcyBzZXZl biBvcGVuIG1lcmdlIHJlcXVlc3RzLCB0aGF0IGhhdmUgYmVlbg0Kb3BlbiBmb3IgbWFueSBtb250 aHMuIFRob3NlIHJhbmdlIGZyb20gdHJpdmlhbCBmaXhlcyBmb3IgdHlwb3MsIHRvIGRrZydzIHdv cmsgb24NClVzZXIgSURzIGFuZCByZXBsYWNlbWVudCBvZiBSZXZvY2F0aW9uIEtleXMsIGFuZCBh IGZpeCBmb3IgYSB0ZXN0IHZlY3RvcighKSB0aGF0DQpyZWNlaXZlZCBubyBhdHRlbnRpb24gaW4g c2l4IG1vbnRocy4NCg0KT24gdGhlIG90aGVyIHNpZGUgb2YgdGhpbmdzLCBXZXJuZXIgY29tbWl0 cyBoaXMgb3duIGNoYW5nZXMgZGlyZWN0bHkgdG8gbWFzdGVyLA0Kc29tZXRpbWVzIHdpdGhvdXQg YW55IGNvbW11bmljYXRpb24uICBBIHJlY2VudCBleGFtcGxlIGZyb20gdHdvIHdlZWtzIGFnbywg d2FzDQp0aGUgaW50cm9kdWN0aW9uIG9mIGEgbmV3ICJrZXkgYmxvY2sgc3VicGFja2V0IjoNCmh0 dHBzOi8vZ2l0bGFiLmNvbS9vcGVucGdwLXdnL3JmYzQ4ODBiaXMvLS9jb21taXQvMzBkODM5N2M5 ZmQzMDQ2OTFkNTYyODgxM2EzOGNkNjEzODljNzZjNw0KUmVnYXJkbGVzcyBvZiB3aGV0aGVyIHRo aXMgbWVjaGFuaXNtIGlzIGEgZ29vZCBpZGVhIChpdCBwcm9iYWJseSBpcyksIG9yIHdoZXRoZXIN CnRoZSBzcGVjIHdvcmRpbmcgaXMgZ29vZCAoaXMgImtleSBibG9jayIgdGhlIGJlc3QgdGVybT8p LCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgbm8gYXR0ZW1wdA0KbWFkZSB0byBmaW5kIGNvbnNlbnN1cyBhYm91dCBpdCwg b24gdGhpcyBsaXN0IG9yIGVsc2V3aGVyZS4gKFRoaXMgZmVhdHVyZSB3YXMNCmFsc28gaW1wbGVt ZW50ZWQgaW50byBHbnVQRyBvbiB0aGUgc2FtZSBkYXkgaXQgd2FzIHB1c2hlZCB0byBtYXN0ZXIg aW4gdGhlIHNwZWMsDQphbmQgcmVsZWFzZWQgYXMgYSBiYWNrcG9ydCBpbnRvIEdudVBHIDIuMi4y MCBqdXN0IGEgZmV3IGRheXMgbGF0ZXIuKQ0KDQpBcyBub3RlZCBhYm92ZSwgdGhlIGRlY2lzaW9u IHByb2Nlc3Mgb2Ygd2hldGhlciBhIHByb3Bvc2FsIG1ha2VzIGl0IGludG8gdGhlDQpzcGVjIHNl ZW1zIGFyYml0cmFyeSBhdCBiZXN0LiBCdXQgZXZlbiB3aGVuIGNvbnNlbnN1cyBpcyBhY2hpZXZl ZCwgdGhlIGFjdHVhbA0KZWRpdGluZyBwcm9jZXNzIGlzIGhhcGhhemFyZC4gSW4gQXVndXN0IG9m IDIwMTksIGRrZyBhbmQgbXlzZWxmIHdvcmtlZCBvdXQNCmEgZHJhZnQgZm9yICJhdHRlc3RlZCBj ZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9ucyIuIFRoaXMgd29yayBmb3VuZCBzb21lIGNvbnNlbnN1cyBvbiB0aGUgbWwN CihpbmNsdWRpbmcgZnJvbSBXZXJuZXIpLCBhbmQgZXZlbnR1YWxseSBsZWQgdG8gYSBtZXJnZSBy ZXF1ZXN0Og0KaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRsYWIuY29tL29wZW5wZ3Atd2cvcmZjNDg4MGJpcy8tL21lcmdl X3JlcXVlc3RzLzIwDQpXaGVuIEp1c3R1cyBXaW50ZXIgYW5kIEhlaWtvIFN0YW1lciByZXZpZXdl ZCB0aGlzIE1SLCB0aGV5IGZvdW5kIGFuIG9kZGl0eSBhYm91dA0KdGhlIHdheSB0aGF0IHNpZ25h dHVyZXMgd2VyZSBtYWRlLCBhbmQgYWxzbyB0d28gdHlwb3MuICBEZXNwaXRlIHRob3NlIGlzc3Vl cw0KdGhhdCBvYnZpb3VzbHkgc3RpbGwgcmVxdWlyZWQgYXR0ZW50aW9uLCBXZXJuZXIgbWVyZ2Vk IHRoZSBNUiwgbGVhdmluZyBubw0KY29tbWVudCBhbmQgb2ZmZXJpbmcgbm8gZm9sbG93LXVwLiAg VGhlIHR5cG9zIGFuZCBjcnlwdG9ncmFwaGljIG9kZGl0eSBvZiB0aGUNCnNpZ25hdHVyZSByZW1h aW4gdG8gdGhpcyBkYXkuDQoNCkZhY2lsaXRhdGlvbiBvZiBjb29wZXJhdGlvbiBoYXMgZmFpbGVk IGFzIHdlbGwuIE9uIE1hcmNoIDE5dGggbGFzdCB5ZWFyLCBKdXN0dXMNCldpbnRlciBvcGVuZWQg YW4gaXNzdWUgb24gdGhlIHJlcG9zaXRvcnkgc2F5aW5nIHRoYXQgaGUgY291bGQgbm90IGJ1aWxk IHRoZSBzcGVjDQppbiBpdHMgY3VycmVudCBmb3JtOg0KaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRsYWIuY29tL29wZW5w Z3Atd2cvcmZjNDg4MGJpcy8tL2lzc3Vlcy83DQpTaXggbW9udGhzIGFmdGVyIHRoZSBpc3N1ZSB3 YXMgcG9zdGVkLCBXZXJuZXIgY2xvc2VkIGl0IHdpdGggdGhlIHNpbmdsZSByZW1hcmsNCiJJIGNh bid0IHJlcGxpY2F0ZSB0aGF0LiIgIGRrZyByZW9wZW5lZCB0aGUgaXNzdWUsIG5vdGluZyB0aGF0 IHRoZSB0b29sY2hhaW4NCndvcmtzIG9ubHkgb24gRGViaWFuIHN0cmV0Y2ggKHRoZW4gYWxyZWFk eSBvbGRzdGFibGUgYnkgYSBmZXcgbW9udGhzKSwgYnV0IGRpZA0Kbm90IGluIGZhY3Qgd29yayBv biBEZWJpYW4gc3RhYmxlLiBUaGUgdGlja2V0IHJlbWFpbnMgb3BlbiB0byB0aGlzIGRheSwgZXZl bg0KdGhvdWdoIHRoZSBpc3N1ZSBpdHNlbGYgd2FzIGV2ZW50dWFsbHkgcmVzb2x2ZWQgd2l0aCBh IG1lcmdlIHJlcXVlc3QgZnJvbSBka2cNCnRoYXQgY29udmVydGVkIHRoZSB0b29sY2hhaW4gdG8g a3JhbWRvd24uDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgbm90IGFuIGV4aGF1c3RpdmUgbGlzdC4gSSB0cmllZCB0byBw aWNrIGV4YW1wbGVzIHRoYXQgaWxsdXN0cmF0ZSB0aGVpcg0KcG9pbnRzIGluIGEgY2xlYXIgd2F5 LCBhbmQgaG9wZWZ1bGx5IHJlbGF0aXZlbHkgZnJlZSBvZiBwZXJzb25hbCBiaWFzLg0KDQo9PQ0K DQpJIGFwcHJlY2lhdGUgdGhlIHdvcmsgV2VybmVyIGhhcyBwdXQgaW50byBSRkM0ODgwYmlzLCBh bmQgb2YgY291cnNlIGludG8gT3BlblBHUA0KaW4gZ2VuZXJhbC4gSG93ZXZlciwgYSBkb2N1bWVu dCB0aGF0IGlzIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCB1bmRlciB0aGUgaWV0Zi0qIG5hbWVzcGFjZQ0KYmVhcnMgYSBx dWFsaXR5IG9mIG9mZmljaWFsbmVzcywgYW5kIHRodXMgYW4gZXhwZWN0YXRpb24gdG8gcmVmbGVj dCBjb25zZW5zdXMgb2YNCnRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwLiBUaGUgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vcGVucGdw LXJmYzQ4ODBiaXMtKiBkb2N1bWVudHMgZG8gbm90LCBpbiBteQ0Kb3BpbmlvbiBhbmQgdGhhdCBv ZiBzZXZlcmFsIG90aGVycyBJIGhhdmUgdGFsa2VkIHRvLCBtZWV0IHRoaXMgZXhwZWN0YXRpb24u DQoNCkluIGNvbnNlcXVlbmNlLCBJIGZvcm1hbGx5IHJlcXVlc3QgV2VybmVyIEtvY2ggdG8gc3Rl cCBkb3duIGZyb20gaGlzIHBvc2l0aW9uIGFzDQplZGl0b3IgZm9yIHRoZSBPcGVuUEdQIHNwZWNp ZmljYXRpb24uDQoNCk9mIGNvdXJzZSwgdGhpcyBtZWFucyB3ZSB3aWxsIG5lZWQgYSBuZXcgZWRp dG9yLiBJJ20gY29uZmlkZW50IHRoYXQgd2UgY2FuIGZpbmQNCnNvbWVvbmUgZm9yIHRoaXMgcm9s ZSwgb25jZSB0aGUgYWlyIGhhcyBjbGVhcmVkIGEgYml0Lg0KDQpBcyBhIGdlbmVyYWwgdGhvdWdo dCBmb3IgYSB3YXkgZm9yd2FyZCwgSSB3b3VsZCBzdWdnZXN0IHRvIHJlc3RhcnQgd29yayBvbg0K UkZDNDg4MGJpcyBjb25jZXB0dWFsbHksIGluIHRoZSB3YXkgaXQgd2FzIG9yaWdpbmFsbHkgY2hh cnRlcmVkIGFzIGEgcHVyZSBjcnlwdG8NCnJlZnJlc2guICBBIGdvb2Qgc3RhcnRpbmcgcG9pbnQg d291bGQgYmUgZm9yIGEgbmV3IGVkaXRvciB0byBicmluZyB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwNClJGQzQ4ODAg aW50byBhIG1vZGlmaWFibGUgc3RhdGUgd2l0aCBhIG1vZGVybiB0b29sY2hhaW4sIHRvIGFsbG93 IHdvcmsgb24gYWN0dWFsDQpzZXQgb2YgcGF0Y2hlcyBnb2luZyBmcm9tIDQ4ODAgdG8gNDg4MGJp cy4gQSBwb3J0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBjaGFuZ2VzIG1hZGUgb24NClJGQzQ4ODBiaXMgc28gZmFyIGNl cnRhaW5seSBkb24ndCBtYXRjaCB0aGUgY2hhcnRlcmVkICJjcnlwdG8gcmVmcmVzaCIsIHNvIGl0 DQptYWtlcyBzZW5zZSB0byBjaGVycnktcGljayBmcm9tIHRoZW0gaW4gYW4gb3JkZXJlZCBmYXNo aW9uLCB3aXRoIGEgY2hlY2sgZm9yDQpjb25zZW5zdXMgYW5kIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIHN0YXR1 cy4NCg0KSSB3b3VsZCBmdXJ0aGVyIHN1Z2dlc3QgdG8gb3JpZW50IGZ1dHVyZSB3b3JrIG1vcmUg b24gY29uY3JldGUgcHJvcG9zYWxzLCBpLmUuDQpkaWZmcyBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBzcGVjLiBCeSBl eHBsaWNpdGx5IGFza2luZyBjb250cmlidXRvcnMgdG8gc3VibWl0IGFuZCBtYWludGFpbg0KY29u Y3JldGUgcGF0Y2hlcyBhcyBhIGJhc2lzIGZvciBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLCB3ZSBlbmNvdXJhZ2UgY29u dHJpYnV0aW9ucyB0aGF0IGFyZQ0KYmV0dGVyIHRob3VnaHQgb3V0LCBjb250aW51b3VzbHkgcmVm bGVjdCB0aGUgc3RhdGUgb2YgdGhpbmtpbmcsIGFuZCBjYW4gYmUNCndlaWdoZWQgYWdhaW5zdCBv bmUgYW5vdGhlciAtIG9yIGNvbWJpbmVkIG9uIHRoZWlyIG1lcml0cyAtIG1vcmUgZWFzaWx5Lg0K DQpJIGFwb2xvZ2l6ZSBmb3IgYnJpbmdpbmcgdXAgdGhpcyB1bnBsZWFzYW50IHRvcGljLiBUaGFu a3MgZm9yIHJlYWRpbmcsIGFuZA0KY29uc2lkZXJpbmcuDQoNCi0gVmluY2VudCBCcmVpdG1vc2Vy DQoNCltCQ1AyNV06IGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9iY3AyNSNzZWN0aW9uLTYu Mw0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0Kb3Bl bnBncCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCm9wZW5wZ3BAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3Jn L21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vb3BlbnBncA0KDQo= --_000_B74328A22CC04D0A8C07E9D52DCC46B3ribosecom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <2DFD324158E03E4F8E70813DE9BA6B60@apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0i dGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5IHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdy YXA6IGJyZWFrLXdvcmQ7IC13ZWJraXQtbmJzcC1tb2RlOiBzcGFjZTsgbGluZS1icmVhazogYWZ0 ZXItd2hpdGUtc3BhY2U7IiBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCldpdGhvdXQgZ29pbmcgaW50byBkZXRhaWxzIG9m IHRoZXNlIGFjY3VzYXRpb25zOg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8L2Rpdj4N CjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+MS4gSSBkaXNhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBwcm9wb3NhbCB0byByZW1vdmUg V2VybmVyIGZyb20gYmVpbmcgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGVkaXRvciBvZiBSRkMgNDg4MGJpcy4gTXkg ZXhwZXJpZW5jZSB3aXRoIFdlcm5lcuKAmXMgb3Blbm5lc3MgYW5kIGV4cGVydGlzZSBpbiB0aGlz IGRvY3VtZW50IGhhcyBiZWVuIGdyZWF0LjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj48YnIgY2xhc3M9 IiI+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+Mi4gSSBkaXNhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBwcm9wb3Nh bCB0byDigJxzdGFydCBvdmVy4oCdIGEgcmVmcmVzaCBvZiBSRkMgNDg4MGJpcy4gQWxsIGV4aXN0 aW5nIGNvbnRlbnQgaW5jb3Jwb3JhdGVkIGluIDQ4ODBiaXMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGF0dHJpYnV0ZWQg dG8gY29uc2Vuc3VzICh3aGVuIHRoZSBXRyBzdGlsbCBleGlzdGVkKSwgeWV0IHRoaXMgcHJvcG9z YWwgc2VlbXMgdG8gY29tcGxldGVseSBvdmVydGhyb3cgdGhhdC48L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9 IiI+PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPkl0IGlzIGhhcmRseSBXZXJu ZXLigJlzIGZhdWx0IHRoYXQgY29uc2Vuc3VzIGlzIGRpZmZpY3VsdCB0byBjb21lIGJ5IGluIHRo aXMgZ3JvdXAuIEdpdmVuIHRoYXQgdGhlIE9wZW5QR1AgV29ya2luZyBHcm91cCBoYXMg4oCcYWxy ZWFkeeKAnSBiZWVuIGRpc2JhbmRlZCwgdGhlc2UgY29tcGxhaW50cyBvZiBwYXJ0aWNpcGF0aW9u IGFyZSB1bmZhaXJseSBhdHRyaWJ1dGVkIHRvd2FyZHMgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGVkaXRvciBvZiBS RkMgNDg4MGJpcy4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IGNs YXNzPSIiPlRoZSBzYWlkIGlzc3VlcyB3b3VsZCBiZSBiZXR0ZXIgcmVzb2x2ZWQgYnkgZmluYWxp emluZyB0aGUgUkZDIDQ4ODBiaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgYW5kIHB1Ymxpc2hpbmcgaXQuPC9kaXY+DQo8 ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj5LaW5kIHJl Z2FyZHMsPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPlJvbjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9 IiI+PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImNvbG9yOiByZ2Io MCwgMCwgMCk7IGxldHRlci1zcGFjaW5nOiBub3JtYWw7IG9ycGhhbnM6IGF1dG87IHRleHQtYWxp Z246IHN0YXJ0OyB0ZXh0LWluZGVudDogMHB4OyB0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTogbm9uZTsgd2hpdGUt c3BhY2U6IG5vcm1hbDsgd2lkb3dzOiBhdXRvOyB3b3JkLXNwYWNpbmc6IDBweDsgLXdlYmtpdC10 ZXh0LXN0cm9rZS13aWR0aDogMHB4OyB3b3JkLXdyYXA6IGJyZWFrLXdvcmQ7IC13ZWJraXQtbmJz cC1tb2RlOiBzcGFjZTsgLXdlYmtpdC1saW5lLWJyZWFrOiBhZnRlci13aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTsiIGNs YXNzPSIiPg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxiciBjbGFzcz0i Ij4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NClJvbmFsZCBUc2U8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpSaWJvc2UgSW5jLjxi ciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPGJsb2Nr cXVvdGUgdHlwZT0iY2l0ZSIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPk9uIEFwciAxNywgMjAy MCwgYXQgNjoxOCBQTSwgVmluY2VudCBCcmVpdG1vc2VyICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86bG9v az00MG15LmFtYXppbi5ob3JzZUBkbWFyYy5pZXRmLm9yZyIgY2xhc3M9IiI+bG9vaz00MG15LmFt YXppbi5ob3JzZUBkbWFyYy5pZXRmLm9yZzwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjwvZGl2Pg0KPGJyIGNsYXNz PSJBcHBsZS1pbnRlcmNoYW5nZS1uZXdsaW5lIj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNz PSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCkhpIE9wZW5QR1AgZm9sa3MsPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNs YXNzPSIiPg0KRml2ZSB5ZWFycyBhZ28sIHRoZSBPcGVuUEdQIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgd2FzIHJl b3BlbmVkLiBJdCB3YXMgY2hhcnRlcmVkIGFzPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KYSAmcXVvdDtjcnlwdG8g cmVmcmVzaCZxdW90OyBvZiBPcGVuUEdQLCBhbmQgYSBkZWNpc2lvbiB3YXMgY29uc2Npb3VzbHkg bWFkZSB0byBub3QgYWRkPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KZmVhdHVyZXMgYmV5b25kIHRoYXQuIFRoZSBu ZXdseSByZW9wZW5lZCB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHN0cmF5ZWQgZnJvbSB0aGlzIGdvYWw8YnIgY2xh c3M9IiI+DQpxdWl0ZSBhIGJpdCwgZ290IGxvc3QgaW4gYSBjb25mdXNlZCBzaWxlbmNlLCBhbmQg d2FzIGNsb3NlZCBhZ2FpbiBkdWUgdG8gaW5hY3Rpdml0eS48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpEZXNwaXRl IHRoZSBmb3JtYWwgc3RhdHVzIG9mIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGFzIGNsb3NlZCwgcmZjNDg4 MGJpcyBpcyBzdGlsbDxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCmJlaW5nIHdvcmtlZCBvbi4gVGhpcyB3b3JrIGhh cHBlbnMgb24gdGhpcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QsIGJ1dCBtb3N0IG9mIHRoZSBhY3R1YWw8YnIgY2xh c3M9IiI+DQpwcm9ncmVzcyBoYXBwZW5zIG9uIHRoZSBvcGVucGdwLXdnL3JmYzQ4ODBiaXMgcmVw b3NpdG9yeSBvbiBnaXRsYWI6PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRsYWIu Y29tL29wZW5wZ3Atd2cvcmZjNDg4MGJpcyIgY2xhc3M9IiI+aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRsYWIuY29tL29w ZW5wZ3Atd2cvcmZjNDg4MGJpczwvYT4gVGhlcmUgaGF2ZSBhbHNvIGJlZW4gYSBjb3VwbGUgb2Y8 YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpyZWxlYXNlcyBvZiB0aGlzIHNwZWMgYXMgSS1EcywgYW5kIGl0IGlzIHVz ZWQgaW4gcHJhY3RpY2UgYXMgYSByZWZlcmVuY2UgYnk8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQppbXBsZW1lbnRv cnMuPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KU2luY2UgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIHJlb3Bl bmluZywgdGhlIHJvbGUgb2YgdGhlIGVkaXRvciBoYXMgYmVlbiBoZWxkIGJ5IFdlcm5lcjxiciBj bGFzcz0iIj4NCktvY2guIFRoZSBmb3JtYWwgZGVzY3JpcHRpb24gb2YgdGhlIERvY3VtZW50IEVk aXRvciBpcyBkZXNjcmliZWQgaW4gW0JDUDI1XSBhczxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCiZxdW90O1RoZSBE b2N1bWVudCBFZGl0b3IgaXMgcmVzcG9uc2libGUgZm9yIGVuc3VyaW5nIHRoYXQgdGhlIGNvbnRl bnRzIG9mIHRoZTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCmRvY3VtZW50IGFjY3VyYXRlbHkgcmVmbGVjdCB0aGUg ZGVjaXNpb25zIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIG1hZGUgYnkgdGhlIHdvcmtpbmc8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+ DQpncm91cC4mcXVvdDsgRm9sbG93aW5nIHRoaXMsIEkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIHRv IGJlIGEgcmVhc29uYWJsZSBzZXQgb2Y8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpleHBlY3RhdGlvbnMgdG93YXJk cyBhbiBlZGl0b3I6PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KMS4gQ29tbXVuaWNhdGUg ZGVjaXNpb25zIGFuZCB1cGRhdGVzIHRvIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwLjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4N CjIuIEZvc3RlciBjb29wZXJhdGlvbi48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQozLiBXb3JrIG91dCBzcGVjaWZp Y2F0aW9uIGNvbnRlbnQgZnJvbSBncm91cCBjb25zZW5zdXMuPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNs YXNzPSIiPg0KTXlzZWxmIGFuZCBvdGhlcnMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGluY3JlYXNpbmdseSBkaXNzYXRp c2ZpZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUgd2F5IHRoYXQgYWxsIG9mPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KdGhlc2UgZXhwZWN0 YXRpb25zIGhhdmUgbm90IGJlZW4gbWV0IGluIHRoZSBlZGl0aW5nIHByb2Nlc3Mgb2YgUkZDNDg4 MGJpcy4gTW9yZTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCnN1YnRsZSBhdHRlbXB0cyBhdCBjb21tdW5pY2F0aW5n IHRoaXMgaGF2ZSBmYWlsZWQsIHdoaWNoIGlzIHdoeSBJIGFtIGJyaW5naW5nPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIi Pg0KdGhlIGlzc3VlIHVwIG9uIHRoaXMgbGlzdC48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+ DQpJJ2QgcmF0aGVyIHNwYXJlIGV2ZXJ5b25lIHRoZSBleGVyY2lzZSwgYnV0IGl0IHNlZW1zIG5l Y2Vzc2FyeSB0byBnaXZlIGEgZmV3PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KY29uY3JldGUgZXhhbXBsZXMgb2Yg dGhpcyBkaXNzYXRpc2ZhY3Rpb24uIEZlZWwgZnJlZSB0byBza2lwIGFoZWFkLjxiciBjbGFzcz0i Ij4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCj09PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KVGhlIHJl cG9zaXRvcnkgb24gZ2l0bGFiIGN1cnJlbnRseSBoYXMgc2V2ZW4gb3BlbiBtZXJnZSByZXF1ZXN0 cywgdGhhdCBoYXZlIGJlZW48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpvcGVuIGZvciBtYW55IG1vbnRocy4gVGhv c2UgcmFuZ2UgZnJvbSB0cml2aWFsIGZpeGVzIGZvciB0eXBvcywgdG8gZGtnJ3Mgd29yayBvbjxi ciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NClVzZXIgSURzIGFuZCByZXBsYWNlbWVudCBvZiBSZXZvY2F0aW9uIEtleXMs IGFuZCBhIGZpeCBmb3IgYSB0ZXN0IHZlY3RvcighKSB0aGF0PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KcmVjZWl2 ZWQgbm8gYXR0ZW50aW9uIGluIHNpeCBtb250aHMuPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIi Pg0KT24gdGhlIG90aGVyIHNpZGUgb2YgdGhpbmdzLCBXZXJuZXIgY29tbWl0cyBoaXMgb3duIGNo YW5nZXMgZGlyZWN0bHkgdG8gbWFzdGVyLDxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCnNvbWV0aW1lcyB3aXRob3V0 IGFueSBjb21tdW5pY2F0aW9uLiAmbmJzcDtBIHJlY2VudCBleGFtcGxlIGZyb20gdHdvIHdlZWtz IGFnbywgd2FzPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KdGhlIGludHJvZHVjdGlvbiBvZiBhIG5ldyAmcXVvdDtr ZXkgYmxvY2sgc3VicGFja2V0JnF1b3Q7OjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8v Z2l0bGFiLmNvbS9vcGVucGdwLXdnL3JmYzQ4ODBiaXMvLS9jb21taXQvMzBkODM5N2M5ZmQzMDQ2 OTFkNTYyODgxM2EzOGNkNjEzODljNzZjNyIgY2xhc3M9IiI+aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRsYWIuY29tL29w ZW5wZ3Atd2cvcmZjNDg4MGJpcy8tL2NvbW1pdC8zMGQ4Mzk3YzlmZDMwNDY5MWQ1NjI4ODEzYTM4 Y2Q2MTM4OWM3NmM3PC9hPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NClJlZ2FyZGxlc3Mgb2Ygd2hldGhlciB0aGlz IG1lY2hhbmlzbSBpcyBhIGdvb2QgaWRlYSAoaXQgcHJvYmFibHkgaXMpLCBvciB3aGV0aGVyPGJy IGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KdGhlIHNwZWMgd29yZGluZyBpcyBnb29kIChpcyAmcXVvdDtrZXkgYmxvY2sm cXVvdDsgdGhlIGJlc3QgdGVybT8pLCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgbm8gYXR0ZW1wdDxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4N Cm1hZGUgdG8gZmluZCBjb25zZW5zdXMgYWJvdXQgaXQsIG9uIHRoaXMgbGlzdCBvciBlbHNld2hl cmUuIChUaGlzIGZlYXR1cmUgd2FzPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KYWxzbyBpbXBsZW1lbnRlZCBpbnRv IEdudVBHIG9uIHRoZSBzYW1lIGRheSBpdCB3YXMgcHVzaGVkIHRvIG1hc3RlciBpbiB0aGUgc3Bl Yyw8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQphbmQgcmVsZWFzZWQgYXMgYSBiYWNrcG9ydCBpbnRvIEdudVBHIDIu Mi4yMCBqdXN0IGEgZmV3IGRheXMgbGF0ZXIuKTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4N CkFzIG5vdGVkIGFib3ZlLCB0aGUgZGVjaXNpb24gcHJvY2VzcyBvZiB3aGV0aGVyIGEgcHJvcG9z YWwgbWFrZXMgaXQgaW50byB0aGU8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpzcGVjIHNlZW1zIGFyYml0cmFyeSBh dCBiZXN0LiBCdXQgZXZlbiB3aGVuIGNvbnNlbnN1cyBpcyBhY2hpZXZlZCwgdGhlIGFjdHVhbDxi ciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCmVkaXRpbmcgcHJvY2VzcyBpcyBoYXBoYXphcmQuIEluIEF1Z3VzdCBvZiAy MDE5LCBka2cgYW5kIG15c2VsZiB3b3JrZWQgb3V0PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KYSBkcmFmdCBmb3Ig JnF1b3Q7YXR0ZXN0ZWQgY2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbnMmcXVvdDsuIFRoaXMgd29yayBmb3VuZCBzb21l IGNvbnNlbnN1cyBvbiB0aGUgbWw8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQooaW5jbHVkaW5nIGZyb20gV2VybmVy KSwgYW5kIGV2ZW50dWFsbHkgbGVkIHRvIGEgbWVyZ2UgcmVxdWVzdDo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpo dHRwczovL2dpdGxhYi5jb20vb3BlbnBncC13Zy9yZmM0ODgwYmlzLy0vbWVyZ2VfcmVxdWVzdHMv MjA8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpXaGVuIEp1c3R1cyBXaW50ZXIgYW5kIEhlaWtvIFN0YW1lciByZXZp ZXdlZCB0aGlzIE1SLCB0aGV5IGZvdW5kIGFuIG9kZGl0eSBhYm91dDxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCnRo ZSB3YXkgdGhhdCBzaWduYXR1cmVzIHdlcmUgbWFkZSwgYW5kIGFsc28gdHdvIHR5cG9zLiAmbmJz cDtEZXNwaXRlIHRob3NlIGlzc3VlczxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCnRoYXQgb2J2aW91c2x5IHN0aWxs IHJlcXVpcmVkIGF0dGVudGlvbiwgV2VybmVyIG1lcmdlZCB0aGUgTVIsIGxlYXZpbmcgbm88YnIg Y2xhc3M9IiI+DQpjb21tZW50IGFuZCBvZmZlcmluZyBubyBmb2xsb3ctdXAuICZuYnNwO1RoZSB0 eXBvcyBhbmQgY3J5cHRvZ3JhcGhpYyBvZGRpdHkgb2YgdGhlPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0Kc2lnbmF0 dXJlIHJlbWFpbiB0byB0aGlzIGRheS48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpGYWNp bGl0YXRpb24gb2YgY29vcGVyYXRpb24gaGFzIGZhaWxlZCBhcyB3ZWxsLiBPbiBNYXJjaCAxOXRo IGxhc3QgeWVhciwgSnVzdHVzPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KV2ludGVyIG9wZW5lZCBhbiBpc3N1ZSBv biB0aGUgcmVwb3NpdG9yeSBzYXlpbmcgdGhhdCBoZSBjb3VsZCBub3QgYnVpbGQgdGhlIHNwZWM8 YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQppbiBpdHMgY3VycmVudCBmb3JtOjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCmh0dHBzOi8v Z2l0bGFiLmNvbS9vcGVucGdwLXdnL3JmYzQ4ODBiaXMvLS9pc3N1ZXMvNzxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4N ClNpeCBtb250aHMgYWZ0ZXIgdGhlIGlzc3VlIHdhcyBwb3N0ZWQsIFdlcm5lciBjbG9zZWQgaXQg d2l0aCB0aGUgc2luZ2xlIHJlbWFyazxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCiZxdW90O0kgY2FuJ3QgcmVwbGlj YXRlIHRoYXQuJnF1b3Q7ICZuYnNwO2RrZyByZW9wZW5lZCB0aGUgaXNzdWUsIG5vdGluZyB0aGF0 IHRoZSB0b29sY2hhaW48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQp3b3JrcyBvbmx5IG9uIERlYmlhbiBzdHJldGNo ICh0aGVuIGFscmVhZHkgb2xkc3RhYmxlIGJ5IGEgZmV3IG1vbnRocyksIGJ1dCBkaWQ8YnIgY2xh c3M9IiI+DQpub3QgaW4gZmFjdCB3b3JrIG9uIERlYmlhbiBzdGFibGUuIFRoZSB0aWNrZXQgcmVt YWlucyBvcGVuIHRvIHRoaXMgZGF5LCBldmVuPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KdGhvdWdoIHRoZSBpc3N1 ZSBpdHNlbGYgd2FzIGV2ZW50dWFsbHkgcmVzb2x2ZWQgd2l0aCBhIG1lcmdlIHJlcXVlc3QgZnJv bSBka2c8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQp0aGF0IGNvbnZlcnRlZCB0aGUgdG9vbGNoYWluIHRvIGtyYW1k b3duLjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NClRoaXMgaXMgbm90IGFuIGV4aGF1c3Rp dmUgbGlzdC4gSSB0cmllZCB0byBwaWNrIGV4YW1wbGVzIHRoYXQgaWxsdXN0cmF0ZSB0aGVpcjxi ciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCnBvaW50cyBpbiBhIGNsZWFyIHdheSwgYW5kIGhvcGVmdWxseSByZWxhdGl2 ZWx5IGZyZWUgb2YgcGVyc29uYWwgYmlhcy48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo9 PTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCkkgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSB0aGUgd29yayBXZXJu ZXIgaGFzIHB1dCBpbnRvIFJGQzQ4ODBiaXMsIGFuZCBvZiBjb3Vyc2UgaW50byBPcGVuUEdQPGJy IGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KaW4gZ2VuZXJhbC4gSG93ZXZlciwgYSBkb2N1bWVudCB0aGF0IGlzIHB1Ymxp c2hlZCB1bmRlciB0aGUgaWV0Zi0qIG5hbWVzcGFjZTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCmJlYXJzIGEgcXVh bGl0eSBvZiBvZmZpY2lhbG5lc3MsIGFuZCB0aHVzIGFuIGV4cGVjdGF0aW9uIHRvIHJlZmxlY3Qg Y29uc2Vuc3VzIG9mPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAuIFRoZSBkcmFmdC1p ZXRmLW9wZW5wZ3AtcmZjNDg4MGJpcy0qIGRvY3VtZW50cyBkbyBub3QsIGluIG15PGJyIGNsYXNz PSIiPg0Kb3BpbmlvbiBhbmQgdGhhdCBvZiBzZXZlcmFsIG90aGVycyBJIGhhdmUgdGFsa2VkIHRv LCBtZWV0IHRoaXMgZXhwZWN0YXRpb24uPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KSW4g Y29uc2VxdWVuY2UsIEkgZm9ybWFsbHkgcmVxdWVzdCBXZXJuZXIgS29jaCB0byBzdGVwIGRvd24g ZnJvbSBoaXMgcG9zaXRpb24gYXM8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQplZGl0b3IgZm9yIHRoZSBPcGVuUEdQ IHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24uPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KT2YgY291cnNlLCB0 aGlzIG1lYW5zIHdlIHdpbGwgbmVlZCBhIG5ldyBlZGl0b3IuIEknbSBjb25maWRlbnQgdGhhdCB3 ZSBjYW4gZmluZDxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCnNvbWVvbmUgZm9yIHRoaXMgcm9sZSwgb25jZSB0aGUg YWlyIGhhcyBjbGVhcmVkIGEgYml0LjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCkFzIGEg Z2VuZXJhbCB0aG91Z2h0IGZvciBhIHdheSBmb3J3YXJkLCBJIHdvdWxkIHN1Z2dlc3QgdG8gcmVz dGFydCB3b3JrIG9uPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KUkZDNDg4MGJpcyBjb25jZXB0dWFsbHksIGluIHRo ZSB3YXkgaXQgd2FzIG9yaWdpbmFsbHkgY2hhcnRlcmVkIGFzIGEgcHVyZSBjcnlwdG88YnIgY2xh c3M9IiI+DQpyZWZyZXNoLiAmbmJzcDtBIGdvb2Qgc3RhcnRpbmcgcG9pbnQgd291bGQgYmUgZm9y IGEgbmV3IGVkaXRvciB0byBicmluZyB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWw8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpSRkM0ODgw IGludG8gYSBtb2RpZmlhYmxlIHN0YXRlIHdpdGggYSBtb2Rlcm4gdG9vbGNoYWluLCB0byBhbGxv dyB3b3JrIG9uIGFjdHVhbDxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCnNldCBvZiBwYXRjaGVzIGdvaW5nIGZyb20g NDg4MCB0byA0ODgwYmlzLiBBIHBvcnRpb24gb2YgdGhlIGNoYW5nZXMgbWFkZSBvbjxiciBjbGFz cz0iIj4NClJGQzQ4ODBiaXMgc28gZmFyIGNlcnRhaW5seSBkb24ndCBtYXRjaCB0aGUgY2hhcnRl cmVkICZxdW90O2NyeXB0byByZWZyZXNoJnF1b3Q7LCBzbyBpdDxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCm1ha2Vz IHNlbnNlIHRvIGNoZXJyeS1waWNrIGZyb20gdGhlbSBpbiBhbiBvcmRlcmVkIGZhc2hpb24sIHdp dGggYSBjaGVjayBmb3I8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpjb25zZW5zdXMgYW5kIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9u IHN0YXR1cy48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpJIHdvdWxkIGZ1cnRoZXIgc3Vn Z2VzdCB0byBvcmllbnQgZnV0dXJlIHdvcmsgbW9yZSBvbiBjb25jcmV0ZSBwcm9wb3NhbHMsIGku ZS48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpkaWZmcyBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBzcGVjLiBCeSBleHBsaWNpdGx5IGFz a2luZyBjb250cmlidXRvcnMgdG8gc3VibWl0IGFuZCBtYWludGFpbjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCmNv bmNyZXRlIHBhdGNoZXMgYXMgYSBiYXNpcyBmb3IgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiwgd2UgZW5jb3VyYWdlIGNv bnRyaWJ1dGlvbnMgdGhhdCBhcmU8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpiZXR0ZXIgdGhvdWdodCBvdXQsIGNv bnRpbnVvdXNseSByZWZsZWN0IHRoZSBzdGF0ZSBvZiB0aGlua2luZywgYW5kIGNhbiBiZTxiciBj bGFzcz0iIj4NCndlaWdoZWQgYWdhaW5zdCBvbmUgYW5vdGhlciAtIG9yIGNvbWJpbmVkIG9uIHRo ZWlyIG1lcml0cyAtIG1vcmUgZWFzaWx5LjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCkkg YXBvbG9naXplIGZvciBicmluZ2luZyB1cCB0aGlzIHVucGxlYXNhbnQgdG9waWMuIFRoYW5rcyBm b3IgcmVhZGluZywgYW5kPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KY29uc2lkZXJpbmcuPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0K PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KLSBWaW5jZW50IEJyZWl0bW9zZXI8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xh c3M9IiI+DQpbQkNQMjVdOiBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvYmNwMjUjc2VjdGlv bi02LjM8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCm9wZW5wZ3AgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0Kb3BlbnBncEBpZXRmLm9yZzxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCmh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vb3BlbnBncDxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2 Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0K PC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_B74328A22CC04D0A8C07E9D52DCC46B3ribosecom_-- From nobody Fri Apr 17 03:44:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFAAE3A0887 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:43:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nPtx9ycgBLco for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethos.braverock.com (braverock.com [173.15.14.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 317AB3A0885 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brian-128.braverock.com (dhcp.braverock.com [173.15.14.29]) (authenticated bits=0) by ethos.braverock.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-10) with ESMTPSA id 03HAhno6015783 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 05:43:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1b713c81e6de4bbe93ce3de5f887c5203470718c.camel@braverock.com> From: "Brian G. Peterson" To: openpgp@ietf.org Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 05:43:49 -0500 In-Reply-To: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-95R6fOyNKahN/D9hPyIn" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.1-2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:44:00 -0000 --=-95R6fOyNKahN/D9hPyIn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I haven't worked deeply in crypto or PGP related code in many years, so feel free to discard my comments. I do work extensively in a large number of open source projects still, often as a member of the management team, so perhaps my perspective has some merit. I'll note that you had two main points here, and they are somewhat muddled together - the working group suffered from scope creep - Werner isn't doing a good job as editor I think these topics would be best separated. On the scope creep model, you propose throwing out 4880bis and replacing it with a new draft, and a whole new process for effectively creating feature branches around a specific feature proposal. You further suggest limiting the scope to the originally envisioned scope of 4880bis. I have no comment on whether narrowing scope to the "crypto refresh" scope. I'm not enough of a cryptogrphy coder anymore to have an informed opinion. So to deal with scope creep, you suggest discarding this draft. That seems extreme, and seems like it would greatly slow what little momentum the working group has. You also suggest moving to a feature branch model, where individual described features would exist in a branch, and the branch would garner comments and fixes from the working group before being merged to master. This is a common pattern among open source projects, so I doubt many would disagree that it has merit. On your second point, that Werner isn't adequately fulfilling his duties as editor, you propose that he give up the title. I have no comment on this, as I am not following the details closely enough to have an informed opinion. You further give as a reasons that the editor should be "fostering cooperation" ... I'm not sure that usually falls to the editor, but rather to the Chair of the working group. I have little comment on your desire for better communication. Different teams communicate very differently. You want more formal communication of planned merges of features. That is a proposal worth discussion. The IETF process alllows for multiple co-chairs, but formally has only one Document Editor. I'll note that this process predates the wide deployment of distributed version control systems or distributed text editors. In many modern open source projects, more than one person has the authority to merge changes to master. I would suggest that perhaps this is a simpler solution... - give more than one individual 'co-editor' status to merge changes to master - revise the process to a formal feature branch model, one feature per branch,for all committers - revise the process to communicate on this list the intended merge of a given feature branch, and offer opportunity for review, patches, and comment Regards, Brian On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 12:18 +0200, Vincent Breitmoser wrote: > Hi OpenPGP folks, > Five years ago, the OpenPGP working group was reopened. It was > chartered asa "crypto refresh" of OpenPGP, and a decision was > consciously made to not addfeatures beyond that. The newly reopened > working group strayed from this goalquite a bit, got lost in a > confused silence, and was closed again due to inactivity.Despite the > formal status of the working group as closed, rfc4880bis is > stillbeing worked on. This work happens on this mailing list, but > most of the actualprogress happens on the openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis > repository on gitlab:https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis There > have also been a couple ofreleases of this spec as I-Ds, and it is > used in practice as a reference byimplementors. > Since the original reopening, the role of the editor has been held by > WernerKoch. The formal description of the Document Editor is > described in [BCP25] as"The Document Editor is responsible for > ensuring that the contents of thedocument accurately reflect the > decisions that have been made by the workinggroup." Following this, I > believe the following to be a reasonable set ofexpectations towards > an editor: > 1. Communicate decisions and updates to the working group.2. Foster > cooperation.3. Work out specification content from group consensus. > Myself and others have been increasingly dissatisfied with the way > that all ofthese expectations have not been met in the editing > process of RFC4880bis. Moresubtle attempts at communicating this have > failed, which is why I am bringingthe issue up on this list. > I'd rather spare everyone the exercise, but it seems necessary to > give a fewconcrete examples of this dissatisfaction. Feel free to > skip ahead. > == > The repository on gitlab currently has seven open merge requests, > that have beenopen for many months. Those range from trivial fixes > for typos, to dkg's work onUser IDs and replacement of Revocation > Keys, and a fix for a test vector(!) thatreceived no attention in six > months. > On the other side of things, Werner commits his own changes directly > to master,sometimes without any communication. A recent example from > two weeks ago, wasthe introduction of a new "key block subpacket": > https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/commit/30d8397c9fd304691d5628813a38cd61389c76c7 > Regardless of whether this mechanism is a good idea (it probably is), > or whetherthe spec wording is good (is "key block" the best term?), > there was no attemptmade to find consensus about it, on this list or > elsewhere. (This feature wasalso implemented into GnuPG on the same > day it was pushed to master in the spec,and released as a backport > into GnuPG 2.2.20 just a few days later.) > As noted above, the decision process of whether a proposal makes it > into thespec seems arbitrary at best. But even when consensus is > achieved, the actualediting process is haphazard. In August of 2019, > dkg and myself worked outa draft for "attested certifications". This > work found some consensus on the ml(including from Werner), and > eventually led to a merge request: > https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/merge_requests/20 > When Justus Winter and Heiko Stamer reviewed this MR, they found an > oddity aboutthe way that signatures were made, and also two > typos. Despite those issuesthat obviously still required attention, > Werner merged the MR, leaving nocomment and offering no follow- > up. The typos and cryptographic oddity of thesignature remain to > this day. > Facilitation of cooperation has failed as well. On March 19th last > year, JustusWinter opened an issue on the repository saying that he > could not build the specin its current form: > https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/issues/7 > Six months after the issue was posted, Werner closed it with the > single remark"I can't replicate that." dkg reopened the issue, > noting that the toolchainworks only on Debian stretch (then already > oldstable by a few months), but didnot in fact work on Debian stable. > The ticket remains open to this day, eventhough the issue itself was > eventually resolved with a merge request from dkgthat converted the > toolchain to kramdown. > This is not an exhaustive list. I tried to pick examples that > illustrate theirpoints in a clear way, and hopefully relatively free > of personal bias. > == > I appreciate the work Werner has put into RFC4880bis, and of course > into OpenPGPin general. However, a document that is published under > the ietf-* namespacebears a quality of officialness, and thus an > expectation to reflect consensus ofthe working group. The draft-ietf- > openpgp-rfc4880bis-* documents do not, in myopinion and that of > several others I have talked to, meet this expectation. > In consequence, I formally request Werner Koch to step down from his > position aseditor for the OpenPGP specification. > Of course, this means we will need a new editor. I'm confident that > we can findsomeone for this role, once the air has cleared a bit. > As a general thought for a way forward, I would suggest to restart > work onRFC4880bis conceptually, in the way it was originally > chartered as a pure cryptorefresh. A good starting point would be > for a new editor to bring the originalRFC4880 into a modifiable state > with a modern toolchain, to allow work on actualset of patches going > from 4880 to 4880bis. A portion of the changes made onRFC4880bis so > far certainly don't match the chartered "crypto refresh", so itmakes > sense to cherry-pick from them in an ordered fashion, with a check > forconsensus and implementation status. > I would further suggest to orient future work more on concrete > proposals, i.e.diffs against the spec. By explicitly asking > contributors to submit and maintainconcrete patches as a basis for > discussion, we encourage contributions that arebetter thought out, > continuously reflect the state of thinking, and can beweighed against > one another - or combined on their merits - more easily. > I apologize for bringing up this unpleasant topic. Thanks for > reading, andconsidering. > - Vincent Breitmoser > [BCP25]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp25#section-6.3 > > _______________________________________________openpgp mailing > listopenpgp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp -- Brian G. Peterson ph: +1.773.459.4973 im: bgpbraverock --=-95R6fOyNKahN/D9hPyIn Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I haven't worked deeply in crypto or PGP related code in many year= s, so feel free to discard my comments. I do work extensively in a large n= umber of open source projects still, often as a member of the management te= am, so perhaps my perspective has some merit.

I'll= note that you had two main points here, and they are somewhat muddled toge= ther

- the working group suffered from scope creep=

- Werner isn't doing a good job as editor

I think these topics would be best separated.
<= br>
On the scope creep model, you propose throwing out 4880bis an= d replacing it with a new draft, and a whole new process for effectively cr= eating feature branches around a specific feature proposal. You further su= ggest limiting the scope to the originally envisioned scope of 4880bis.

I have no comment on whether narrowing scope t= o the "crypto refresh" scope. I'm not enough of a cryptogrphy coder anymor= e to have an informed opinion.

So to deal wi= th scope creep, you suggest discarding this draft. That seems extreme, and= seems like it would greatly slow what little momentum the working group ha= s.

You also suggest moving to a feature branch mod= el, where individual described features would exist in a branch, and the br= anch would garner comments and fixes from the working group before being me= rged to master. This is a common pattern among open source projects, so I = doubt many would disagree that it has merit.

On yo= ur second point, that Werner isn't adequately fulfilling his duties as edit= or, you propose that he give up the title. I have no comment on this, as I= am not following the details closely enough to have an informed opinion.

You further give as a reasons that the editor shoul= d be "fostering cooperation" ... I'm not sure that usually falls to the ed= itor, but rather to the Chair of the working group.

I have little comment on your desire for better communication. Different = teams communicate very differently. You want more formal communication of = planned merges of features. That is a proposal worth discussion.

The IETF process alllows for multiple co-chairs, but formal= ly has only one Document Editor. I'll note that this process predates the = wide deployment of distributed version control systems or distributed text = editors. In many modern open source projects, more than one person has the= authority to merge changes to master. I would suggest that perhaps this i= s a simpler solution...  

- give more than on= e individual 'co-editor' status to merge changes to master

- revise the process to a formal feature branch model, one feature= per branch,for all committers

- revise the proces= s to communicate on this list the intended merge of a given feature branch,= and offer opportunity for review, patches, and comment

Regards,

Brian

<= span>
--
Brian G. Peterson
ph: +1.773.459.4973=
im: bgpbraverock

On Fri, 2= 020-04-17 at 12:18 +0200, Vincent Breitmoser wrote:
Hi OpenPGP folks,

Five years ago, =
the OpenPGP working group was reopened. It was chartered as
a "cr=
ypto refresh" of OpenPGP, and a decision was consciously made to not add
features beyond that. The newly reopened working group strayed from=
 this goal
quite a bit, got lost in a confused silence, and was c=
losed again due to inactivity.
Despite the formal status of the w=
orking group as closed, rfc4880bis is still
being worked on. This=
 work happens on this mailing list, but most of the actual
progre=
ss happens on the openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis repository on gitlab:
https://gitlab.com/openp=
gp-wg/rfc4880bis
 There have also been a couple of
=
releases of this spec as I-Ds, and it is used in practice as a reference by=

implementors.

Since the original reopen=
ing, the role of the editor has been held by Werner
Koch. The for=
mal description of the Document Editor is described in [BCP25] as
"The Document Editor is responsible for ensuring that the contents of the<=
/pre>
document accurately reflect the decisions that have been made by =
the working
group." Following this, I believe the following to be=
 a reasonable set of
expectations towards an editor:
1. Communicate decisions and updates to the working group.
2. Foster cooperation.
3. Work out specification content f=
rom group consensus.

Myself and others have been i=
ncreasingly dissatisfied with the way that all of
these expectati=
ons have not been met in the editing process of RFC4880bis. More
=
subtle attempts at communicating this have failed, which is why I am bringi=
ng
the issue up on this list.

I'd rather=
 spare everyone the exercise, but it seems necessary to give a few
concrete examples of this dissatisfaction. Feel free to skip ahead.
=


=3D=3D

The repository on gitla=
b currently has seven open merge requests, that have been
open fo=
r many months. Those range from trivial fixes for typos, to dkg's work on
User IDs and replacement of Revocation Keys, and a fix for a test =
vector(!) that
received no attention in six months.
On the other side of things, Werner commits his own changes dir=
ectly to master,
sometimes without any communication.  A recent e=
xample from two weeks ago, was
the introduction of a new "key blo=
ck subpacket":
https://gitlab.com/ope=
npgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/commit/30d8397c9fd304691d5628813a38cd61389c76c7
<=
/a>

Regardless of whether this mechanism is a good idea =
(it probably is), or whether
the spec wording is good (is "key bl=
ock" the best term?), there was no attempt
made to find consensus=
 about it, on this list or elsewhere. (This feature was
also impl=
emented into GnuPG on the same day it was pushed to master in the spec,
and released as a backport into GnuPG 2.2.20 just a few days later.)=


As noted above, the decision process of whether a=
 proposal makes it into the
spec seems arbitrary at best. But eve=
n when consensus is achieved, the actual
editing process is hapha=
zard. In August of 2019, dkg and myself worked out
a draft for "a=
ttested certifications". This work found some consensus on the ml
(including from Werner), and eventually led to a merge request:
ht=
tps://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/merge_requests/20
When Justus Winter and Heiko Stamer reviewed this MR, they fou=
nd an oddity about
the way that signatures were made, and also tw=
o typos.  Despite those issues
that obviously still required atte=
ntion, Werner merged the MR, leaving no
comment and offering no f=
ollow-up.  The typos and cryptographic oddity of the
signature re=
main to this day.

Facilitation of cooperation has =
failed as well. On March 19th last year, Justus
Winter opened an =
issue on the repository saying that he could not build the spec
i=
n its current form:
https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/issues/7

Six months after the issue was posted, Werner clos=
ed it with the single remark
"I can't replicate that."  dkg reope=
ned the issue, noting that the toolchain
works only on Debian str=
etch (then already oldstable by a few months), but did
not in fac=
t work on Debian stable. The ticket remains open to this day, even
though the issue itself was eventually resolved with a merge request from=
 dkg
that converted the toolchain to kramdown.

This is not an exhaustive list. I tried to pick examples that illust=
rate their
points in a clear way, and hopefully relatively free o=
f personal bias.

=3D=3D

I=
 appreciate the work Werner has put into RFC4880bis, and of course into Ope=
nPGP
in general. However, a document that is published under the =
ietf-* namespace
bears a quality of officialness, and thus an exp=
ectation to reflect consensus of
the working group. The draft-iet=
f-openpgp-rfc4880bis-* documents do not, in my
opinion and that o=
f several others I have talked to, meet this expectation.

In consequence, I formally request Werner Koch to step down from hi=
s position as
editor for the OpenPGP specification.
Of course, this means we will need a new editor. I'm confident =
that we can find
someone for this role, once the air has cleared =
a bit.

As a general thought for a way forward, I w=
ould suggest to restart work on
RFC4880bis conceptually, in the w=
ay it was originally chartered as a pure crypto
refresh.  A good =
starting point would be for a new editor to bring the original
RF=
C4880 into a modifiable state with a modern toolchain, to allow work on act=
ual
set of patches going from 4880 to 4880bis. A portion of the c=
hanges made on
RFC4880bis so far certainly don't match the charte=
red "crypto refresh", so it
makes sense to cherry-pick from them =
in an ordered fashion, with a check for
consensus and implementat=
ion status.

I would further suggest to orient futu=
re work more on concrete proposals, i.e.
diffs against the spec. =
By explicitly asking contributors to submit and maintain
concrete=
 patches as a basis for discussion, we encourage contributions that are
better thought out, continuously reflect the state of thinking, and =
can be
weighed against one another - or combined on their merits =
- more easily.

I apologize for bringing up this un=
pleasant topic. Thanks for reading, and
considering.
 - Vincent Breitmoser

[BCP25]: 
=

https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/bcp25#section-6.3


_______________________________________________
openpgp mailin=
g list
openpgp@ietf.org
=


https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp

--=-95R6fOyNKahN/D9hPyIn-- From nobody Sun Apr 19 15:07:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903B63A03F1 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:07:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nohats.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e7m_RLfM191X for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.nohats.ca (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:2a03:6000:1004:1::68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DA023A03ED for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4953pn5qWfzFJZ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:07:29 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nohats.ca; s=default; t=1587334049; bh=TWoPY1PdA07bISuP0+aP9CIWnX4td1CF+HFoa6OgFaM=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=SwSb3kNgel5l8Oc1YAOoVeSE0Mgovm5D2JeS5lgE9CZt7kRBVWqgXCMtTEiMcUQlr oEwKySiKQ3emKpbChOqgWai3uMDKikj72i6S4CIt4ADh650u7mAYK/W9gDFlNz83XQ qmScK1SlVKGdCuOHjWTiLNE8dKQ4A+t7J3U+Ghfw= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mx.nohats.ca Received: from mx.nohats.ca ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8J6BOCE1g_Gs; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:07:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (bofh.nohats.ca [76.10.157.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:07:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 09C39602980B; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0650E6FD76; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:07:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Wouters To: Ronald Tse cc: "openpgp@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 22:07:34 -0000 On Fri, 17 Apr 2020, Ronald Tse wrote: > It is hardly Werner’s fault that consensus is difficult to come by in this group. Given that the OpenPGP Working Group > has “already” been disbanded I'm also confused what that means for the bis draft. If there is no working group, then anyone can submit any kind of draft proposal as a bis document. But there is no WG, so I don't think the WG can decide to replace anyone on any draft? I'm not sure though a "bis" document could replace an existing standard without a WG behind it? It would seem odd for an AD sponsored document to replace a WG document ? As for the editing situation. It is possible that it would be beneficial for an editor to be added to the document for improved response time to various edits of the document. Maybe even someone less involved in openpgp so they can keep their role as much administrative as possible without technical bias? Paul From nobody Sun Apr 19 15:33:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F19A3A0781 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:33:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3b6ezyf3VAMC for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 397DB3A0780 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4869338989; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F30431; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:33:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Paul Wouters , "openpgp\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 22:33:39 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul Wouters wrote: Paul> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020, Ronald Tse wrote: >> It is hardly Werner=E2=80=99s fault that consensus is difficult to c= ome by in >> this group. Given that the OpenPGP Working Group has =E2=80=9Calread= y=E2=80=9D been >> disbanded Paul> I'm also confused what that means for the bis draft. If there is = no Paul> working group, then anyone can submit any kind of draft proposal = as Paul> a bis document. But there is no WG, so I don't think the WG can Paul> decide to replace anyone on any draft? You are certainly right: without a WG, whomever wants to edit a document can do so. Paul> I'm not sure though a "bis" document could replace an existing Paul> standard without a WG behind it? It would seem odd for an AD Paul> sponsored document to replace a WG document ? It would violate the rules for an ISE to replace an document that had IETF Consensus. An AD sponsored document does get IETF Consensus, so yes, it can "bis" a now-disbanded WG document. It is really the only way to do that other than spinning up a WG, or perhaps, adopting the document somewhere else. (SAAG?..) Paul> As for the editing situation. It is possible that it would be Paul> beneficial for an editor to be added to the document for improved Paul> response time to various edits of the document. Maybe even someone Paul> less involved in openpgp so they can keep their role as much Paul> administrative as possible without technical bias? I strongly agree: more authors produce better documents, up to some n^2 Mythical Man Month limitation. Three people working together is ideal in my opinion. I also think that we disband WGs *WAY TOO SOON*, and it's one of the major reasons we don't have more Internet Standards. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6c0b8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WX1+QgAjY3b+7cipjcBYhStQwwtkPKHrmnhXiNzMAQUXS6HjrxIoje2ENDymdzw e/rKi0g1JXu4k8etkl085oWVs+EI0PldA+BdaBL4XQpMrZR0wEQc9pCiF4lQNdja claFk+c5PoHcobYnh8cLdp/VMJMW0V6HonUTCc2ihT2ocmAhj05ndOPwcW/+dezN Itr0hn8gOcWcSdNjktuoy2Ad9MGbQqwYT0lFqNy42t55qMldTn+hGpj0ksTz0sn/ hEgxD7SUz6tWrb1ORHQlBkCwgFGqEY+pyDRoQDLTDC5DJQ5JTUy7z6DBmNwHMA1l g7pfmHgmO3J2VcvkHUfCxW2Mbbvcrw== =XMgM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 20 02:06:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3313A0866 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:06:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gnupg.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t5MySTwGvu9f for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com (kerckhoffs.g10code.com [IPv6:2001:aa8:fff1:100::22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D30743A087B for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:05:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnupg.org; s=20181017; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=BfBxwelOSklz5NWVgi0YD23FYLeFMTiyv+CTRo5t5LI=; b=gbwvqc34FgCOeQN0X2C7cTXHbT 8M/l5GjIzKf1z46xN0TbqOsweDOQiW5EMH8FebMU2iO+biHnJF7Zs49qlSHth0EHt7LvI2+YUxsbm /F86+a0mhNIFrGMVselPNvaDmKwewo+QNAmpAdNu1Cwq3o3M9X6gFN06+x5e1my/AkT0=; Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.89 #1 (Debian)) id 1jQSMX-0001q1-2f for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:05:09 +0200 Received: from wk by wheatstone.g10code.de with local (Exim 4.92 #5 (Debian)) id 1jQSIv-0005GC-5r; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:01:25 +0200 From: Werner Koch To: Ronald Tse Cc: "openpgp\@ietf.org" References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> Organisation: GnuPG e.V. X-message-flag: Mails containing HTML will not be read! Please send only plain text. Mail-Followup-To: Ronald Tse , "openpgp\@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:01:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Ronald Tse's message of "Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:35:48 +0000") Message-ID: <871roi5y5f.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=smuggle_RL_AIMSX_number_key_TRD_Agfa_LUK_9/11_NIJ_Pipe_bomb_bank_SL-"; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:06:27 -0000 --=smuggle_RL_AIMSX_number_key_TRD_Agfa_LUK_9/11_NIJ_Pipe_bomb_bank_SL- Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:35, Ronald Tse said: > The said issues would be better resolved by finalizing the RFC 4880bis > document and publishing it. Except for some unimportant details we already had rough consensus on the I-D a long time ago. There are even at least 3 interoperable implementations of the new features. With the attacks on the keyserver in the last summer there was the idea to add countermeasures to the I-D. They are now specified (attestation key signatures) and I am not aware of technical problems with that proposal. I do regularly publish revisions of the I-D to keep it from expiring. Since -09 these are in the queue: 722ed9e * Typo fix 30d8397 * Introduce the Key Block subpacket to align OpenPGP with CMS. 669f73f * Typo fix 6fd718d * Revert to the RFC4880 requirement of having a User ID. Right, the Key Block subpacket[1] has not yet been discussed but I hope this is non-controversial because it is another workaround for the keyserver problems and allows for better decentralized use. Experience has show that this is very useful and should, similar to S/MIME, not be done at the MIME level. Open editorial tasks are: - Clarify how MPIs are used with 25519 and X448. (Gniibe proposed a change last fall) - Add X448 - Fix some fallout with the recently done markup language change. - Final proof reading =20 Salam-Shalom, Werner [1] =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- Key Block (1 octet with value 0, N octets of key data) This subpacket MAY be used to convey key data along with a signature of class 0x00, 0x01, or 0x02. It MUST contain the key used to create the signature; either as the primary key or as a subkey. The key SHOULD contain a primary or subkey capable of encryption and the entire key must be a valid OpenPGP key including at least one User ID packet and the corresponding self-signatures. Implementations MUST ignore this subpacket if the first octet does not have a value of zero or if the key data does not represent a valid transferable public key. =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- =2D-=20 Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz. --=smuggle_RL_AIMSX_number_key_TRD_Agfa_LUK_9/11_NIJ_Pipe_bomb_bank_SL- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQTX/8BjtAoilLlm20f/gK6dHew1jQUCXp1k3AAKCRD/gK6dHew1 jWCMAP44cuaNHug+p+vYgqGUdddsytPlrMZJnJuCZtYqgvxYBgD5ATmF4nIbm0yU 9rQCDPOpfFBQYnBn6Gty6nL1v79DcQ0= =l88o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=smuggle_RL_AIMSX_number_key_TRD_Agfa_LUK_9/11_NIJ_Pipe_bomb_bank_SL--- From nobody Mon Apr 20 02:33:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60DE13A090B for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:33:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=metacode.biz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vb_Qrh03gmum for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x52a.google.com (mail-ed1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E52103A08DD for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id r16so133105edw.5 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:29:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=metacode.biz; s=2017; h=to:references:cc:from:organization:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MFyDB9ix9WsM75zba52OMuExPNkOXypqS2lCFTKWIr4=; b=Wf/uMa1AGQg0YM3J/4Lp3E60QQtp7sZPJgnu4t7RB9giNpLyYGdHoDmvqDTOntsWwM MUVILWr3i783uWWV30ejbmB25CM+RsS/rm/Eu6UA0dhNKOJB++JAUF+fbZUneAMvCQjW 8eeIFUWCcjgI5Sr5YVkCiolBtkgCFl1nnqCx/WaPNwsVP2VxRIT4QuR1VtpC6EnR+0j9 sGPVX83Lw89WTKSAnUToClUhYuucewxbfoFutrMkwDvxAviI3SjM4UPxUEzDogL+LAuk gNPLF2xBTZrrfs/g4Pk+dyST1VrHS/7ZALq13H7aJq+0vfDszkOivOn+cVN6+0fnFmIu b5vQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:references:cc:from:organization:subject :message-id:date:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MFyDB9ix9WsM75zba52OMuExPNkOXypqS2lCFTKWIr4=; b=lBR4+X1vrcdO/mkrmGss6+hBd1Cinvij6k8+Musz6YTml3wQUY9RYs4VyBxkf0HZFl 2CZc1jy1npSkYFOwTdgXuoz6+sKaEUb+uNTEzXgeU50N75QrUCOltM/sunhZ/oAPIybt qSeARXClMXQSQgQGUzgqUci5WTFspUIKejIPI7bSDcoM0DN5wLMuIUwwB5PQfr2sXLzv D68LXyK0mG9Rj2fcU/kyEbSQgGyKGEBtjpA36NwltvXcqAEMwXjUnoUFxZyyMcmwQYNm 3lSVxykQjRb/mCAP8RAjnj2V6fiuVsG8EJYQEMIAKN6Dm2OoI0Egr0NJxkH7QpMh7RyY I7yA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZr8sCEoSwuQJXisNm+xqFmTnFozmjSpm5eAXmcgszBmFgx/ZBg LPNt61xm4Km6uO7deQlsixZrcoHp87k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJoXHYjXtaG1LHGDulRd3GyRdgjby29XqnUFY3Z5X2QbWIW0SaaF3VFrC4pWJwUCiLSN3ZiqQ== X-Received: by 2002:a50:a7a6:: with SMTP id i35mr13091008edc.130.1587374988886; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2a02:a317:4e3d:46f0:224:9bff:fe17:fb78? ([2a02:a317:4e3d:46f0:224:9bff:fe17:fb78]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id e16sm84761eja.58.2020.04.20.02.29.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:29:48 -0700 (PDT) To: Werner Koch References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> <871roi5y5f.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> Cc: "openpgp@ietf.org" From: Wiktor Kwapisiewicz Organization: Metacode Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:29:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <871roi5y5f.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:33:50 -0000 Werner, I think what Vincent meant was that you don't address community feedback ("The Document Editor is responsible for ensuring that the contents of the document accurately reflect the decisions that have been made by the working group."). That e-mail is an example of that: there is list of things done or to be done (which is very welcome, I look forward to X448) but zero replies to the points what Vincent wrote. Kind regards, Wiktor On 20.04.2020 11:01, Werner Koch wrote: > On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:35, Ronald Tse said: > >> The said issues would be better resolved by finalizing the RFC 4880bis >> document and publishing it. > > Except for some unimportant details we already had rough consensus on > the I-D a long time ago. There are even at least 3 interoperable > implementations of the new features. > > With the attacks on the keyserver in the last summer there was the idea > to add countermeasures to the I-D. They are now specified (attestation > key signatures) and I am not aware of technical problems with that > proposal. I do regularly publish revisions of the I-D to keep it from > expiring. Since -09 these are in the queue: > > 722ed9e * Typo fix > 30d8397 * Introduce the Key Block subpacket to align OpenPGP with CMS. > 669f73f * Typo fix > 6fd718d * Revert to the RFC4880 requirement of having a User ID. > > Right, the Key Block subpacket[1] has not yet been discussed but I hope > this is non-controversial because it is another workaround for the > keyserver problems and allows for better decentralized use. Experience > has show that this is very useful and should, similar to S/MIME, not be > done at the MIME level. > > Open editorial tasks are: > > - Clarify how MPIs are used with 25519 and X448. > (Gniibe proposed a change last fall) > - Add X448 > - Fix some fallout with the recently done markup language change. > - Final proof reading > > > > Salam-Shalom, > > Werner > > > [1] > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > Key Block > > (1 octet with value 0, N octets of key data) > > This subpacket MAY be used to convey key data along with a signature > of class 0x00, 0x01, or 0x02. It MUST contain the key used to create > the signature; either as the primary key or as a subkey. The key > SHOULD contain a primary or subkey capable of encryption and the > entire key must be a valid OpenPGP key including at least one User ID > packet and the corresponding self-signatures. > > Implementations MUST ignore this subpacket if the first octet does not > have a value of zero or if the key data does not represent a valid > transferable public key. > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > > _______________________________________________ > openpgp mailing list > openpgp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp > -- https://metacode.biz/@wiktor From nobody Mon Apr 20 05:30:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DC93A0BFE for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 05:30:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gnupg.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9rpWoCIlcnRe for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 05:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com (kerckhoffs.g10code.com [IPv6:2001:aa8:fff1:100::22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB0923A0C01 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 05:30:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnupg.org; s=20181017; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=D9qRGEHiokZS4JjfjfWLaPdCLJR1CRsZ+yEBtztaSiw=; b=LY6oAWstXK+Hw4myO6v2C18LTD fL/Y7g+MP33SafLPcpG9d+McG7/C+8eoi7Met16xbth8M9hoCb6kW/3oznKFvPGH3MLwbsxEQW9o2 bWyvE6LxpFIXLL2hdfxpFiVPldDCxRCa6XssFFOgn8d2VP7q8KamJuTVsAJJY8lQwoLg=; Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.89 #1 (Debian)) id 1jQVYv-00008w-2j for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 14:30:09 +0200 Received: from wk by wheatstone.g10code.de with local (Exim 4.92 #5 (Debian)) id 1jQVYE-0002Qj-Up; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 14:29:26 +0200 From: Werner Koch To: Wiktor Kwapisiewicz Cc: "openpgp\@ietf.org" References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> <871roi5y5f.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> Organisation: GnuPG e.V. X-message-flag: Mails containing HTML will not be read! Please send only plain text. Mail-Followup-To: Wiktor Kwapisiewicz , "openpgp\@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 14:29:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Wiktor Kwapisiewicz's message of "Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:29:45 +0200") Message-ID: <87pnc249ya.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=Freeh_Soviet_oil_Indigo_PLF_SP4_Cocaine_covert_video_Steve_Case_MSEE"; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:30:18 -0000 --=Freeh_Soviet_oil_Indigo_PLF_SP4_Cocaine_covert_video_Steve_Case_MSEE Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:29, Wiktor Kwapisiewicz said: > feedback ("The Document Editor is responsible for ensuring that the > contents of the document accurately reflect the decisions that have been > made by the working group."). Please give an example of an _decision_ made here which is not reflected in the I-Ds. Vincent seems to complain that I am not checking the GitLab bug tracker. It is correct that I only rarely look into the bug tracker; however we also agreed initially that all change requests should be directed to the mailing list and not silently to some bug tracker. If relevant changes to -09 have been posted here and I missed to include them, please be so kind and repost them.=20 Shalom-Salam, Werner =2D-=20 Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz. --=Freeh_Soviet_oil_Indigo_PLF_SP4_Cocaine_covert_video_Steve_Case_MSEE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQTX/8BjtAoilLlm20f/gK6dHew1jQUCXp2VngAKCRD/gK6dHew1 jTl8AQDDaNxrAfeM1bQNEOnBzak1uJIU4fKPVFn+6EXcmgvz+gEApgTpF0kZ/16T Bj0XHA4UlghHozmvhsCUdpF66tig/A8= =UFGo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=Freeh_Soviet_oil_Indigo_PLF_SP4_Cocaine_covert_video_Steve_Case_MSEE-- From nobody Mon Apr 20 11:13:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6703A3A0CBC for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:13:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.012 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.012 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vADPJ2IiZWI1 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED3893A101E for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43C0538980; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 14:07:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B8442; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 14:09:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Wiktor Kwapisiewicz , "openpgp\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <87pnc249ya.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> <871roi5y5f.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> <87pnc249ya.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:13:19 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Werner Koch wrote: > Vincent seems to complain that I am not checking the GitLab bug tracker. > It is correct that I only rarely look into the bug tracker; however we > also agreed initially that all change requests should be directed to the > mailing list and not silently to some bug tracker. That's doubly important given that there is no WG. There are ways to get the issue updates into the ML. (It's even possible to have the converse, but its unfortunately complex) I think that people simply would like to be able to engage you on the list. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6d5WcACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUgwwgAv1MmKSTnktJTh/WCbo0kz2KTYHxbkwD5YHZCZEYvefhkBWhokuiNbzkg JFbZ1s5guVyCgkGSbzbGAoTSJ3awfJz53+zDL8nCDxJNlnVuikUenffidHfVK1zI u5I9QMoEJEx8qWLABU9rMrHUuqcbWNisYlCvzj2djofLd/wHCmvh+6wuzpXYFOBj oal+yYJoj8hZGx4DGWSC8Vs9m7KYn7ixz171F4Zg11B+82XE5NYXYTnmHIq41iX/ yCdBDbT2cuKgn+cLfK2+pKvnvgGG1FfEMl7MLn+JQ3PVTGRWBlr5RbWNasdExIu8 gkyFdqTT6tdLQXnhA4j0iD5jzp7Kuw== =+s6x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 20 11:32:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ACCB3A0CAF for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:32:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ribose.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YMEIgixfQy8o for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from APC01-SG2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr1310055.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.131.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 147723A0BC1 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:32:26 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=mRasrIqMKRg2PGBn3X1IpcO41onra5H2cKVVLjnXUvTXHd9HJtPfOX9kAFeXQxgZTXBqVdQsyRt7dSDmR42SDuvqS/nlxyDIciP/Tfy6v0u+TJx8k4QhsxzPzQOSujegFw5vnWIgvF3/hfNcciB3a0maiP9JTeITCzJmeRvWwPsRdbFaEsiS72lhSEOUy85jF7sVV5cyoCKGJB96DXzbJfFDgk+8FQgptsrwDVxUovRJg7Cjet/U5fC5Oc7wMPRAEgchHgtFTdwFJtkunubI3ihwVCReoFCtOkn1Hg9vodxKpHoX+uJi4hpg713YWp+gZMtYW0KyGy4qGnTwuR7mYg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=HENY5Wi9LNrzn4NL9hQ3N6mLGgG5GZW+fO3hRYDlDtU=; b=NQa+TF/Zh62jlZBJLHKU/kEYUzpVxvvIJG/cthA8ARhh41hy/jRc1Dfr7xMDOqlik+X11KkOl528G+mkaMwoy4DuEg65jlzvDY9qCbsYLC+DLdmN0gEtASYHkoKpsIU3fpxgONCJ+cvWAMz7mzBukVWhaFx2C6vslku42SgI7jnuQltZrcSDDoMeP2rQOq5xZnMmA0UIJerruhEXXW79sbl2bxs2R3MolKBEWuhal/wPTPJlwhp8G8wKOVX2uFL/CKy2+tlSf6flSPBdHGSA9SekPfBqfBBUgec2Dpk4W3AwbhLn5seN+afJm7hmRqRr/IVCqnmZC6QyP75TjTJWyQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ribose.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ribose.com; dkim=pass header.d=ribose.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ribose.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=HENY5Wi9LNrzn4NL9hQ3N6mLGgG5GZW+fO3hRYDlDtU=; b=PZRdrPs6UEU7lmlfSdKPaDEyfwqu4RXtchenyQPUcNgrkLBUNCcaQwssRpXi1UleE0CGiUuQwO8ARPlxA0Q7wmr72rcOokrBK2z8lkJ3Bbs9cxr/TmaRfRvhLTCORogQg1dFde2XpjWMDWa9xIIYEtE6H5OclCT0sWmEJkoPVmY= Received: from HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:1096:203:9e::20) by HK0PR01MB2194.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:1096:203:76::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.29; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:32:22 +0000 Received: from HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::5115:9eb0:2cd0:9c7a]) by HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::5115:9eb0:2cd0:9c7a%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2921.027; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:32:19 +0000 From: Ronald Tse To: "openpgp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down Thread-Index: AQHWFKGp2IdQB7/aQUG8nRcMszGApah9HqcAgASeEzqAAAZ3gIAAMpLsgABetgCAAAZPgA== Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:32:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> <871roi5y5f.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> <87pnc249ya.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> <22415.1587406184@localhost> In-Reply-To: <22415.1587406184@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=tse@ribose.com; x-originating-ip: [58.153.245.161] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0d4cbc00-31bd-4136-2c1f-08d7e55928d7 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HK0PR01MB2194: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273; x-forefront-prvs: 03793408BA x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(346002)(366004)(396003)(39830400003)(376002)(136003)(6486002)(33656002)(186003)(26005)(2616005)(6512007)(6506007)(2906002)(6916009)(86362001)(8936002)(316002)(66556008)(91956017)(66476007)(36756003)(66446008)(64756008)(71200400001)(8676002)(66946007)(76116006)(4744005)(5660300002)(81156014)(508600001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ribose.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 9wgpMlRB6cxoXDj4UQ6yRhbiLkjpr63a7qnWP2SKLNcCia0fYGbZP0GfkQh7YAVufV2l1jVg1CTx9uCsBUvUS2s8OoDn7XSNUGaTEn0XZ5tiroIOLwPDebAICtMZcwmspW3ooo7F/Lc15gxuSfgB9TXN+k3YvzzzdolfXupIPjX4qVKospnLmzLD1bICSMTjocwwGSr2rmMyD6XuHUToZBpC0ae48y07cAJ30JTgDRQ7I/ARwp0WxYhsX2z/MgfhRGQDoORDwVM50xgW3U63WEqDRD1ayfxZm1wHlYOqA2L5G0eSantbjFH2TcwEGenx7ckaCezGZMa/7DduilAhxtBGdcqTDdjQeRaAFdHjBhn09hw/5bFpKFiHufhM6dnvIsicVL+Ss6HrG6bSmggFZT1Vi1pl3vDZzJ+Qjm2Wk2FYLjsAqA8A2+UZgg0mdqek x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: UlFNco+qE+sr0vN/7bv4UwUlPSQKLrmqxN6/qwwuvONTVVBXgaGvASHMNZlh4GKE0hHrSYLGctq7Nx3Gru7mYYwcwCmyJ9Z3fSIl+YCnqomrqw+/otE/kFlgxA57ck7zvDzxOPTcn0WNvrqscj2Gvg== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BC3AC8CCDFEB4396835975A3CEA6B7B0ribosecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ribose.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0d4cbc00-31bd-4136-2c1f-08d7e55928d7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Apr 2020 18:32:19.4375 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d98a04ff-ef98-489b-b33c-13c23a2e091a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 7Veo/MHM6JKh5NwhjXBvY+VDBP9uwQQpB6A4WQ6rvSGoBuXsS3iZekezaEakShmL X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HK0PR01MB2194 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:32:39 -0000 --_000_BC3AC8CCDFEB4396835975A3CEA6B7B0ribosecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TWljaGFlbCwgdGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgY29uc3RydWN0aXZlIGNvbnZlcnNhdGlvbi4NCg0KUGF1 bCwgYSBzbGlnaHQgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbiBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBiaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgd2FzIHVu ZGVyIHRoZSBwdXJ2aWV3IGFuZCB3b3JrIG9mIHRoZSBXRyDigJQgYnV0IHRoZSBXRyBnb3QgZGlz YmFuZGVkIHdoaWxlIHRoZSBkcmFmdCB3YXMgc3RpbGwgdW5kZXJ3YXkuDQoNClRoZSBjdXJyZW50 IGRyYWZ0IHByb2JhYmx5IGJlc3QgcmVwcmVzZW50cyB0aGUg4oCccHJldmlvdXMiIGNvbnNlbnN1 cyBvZiB0aGUgV0cgKHdoaWxlIGl0IGV4aXN0ZWQpLg0KDQpTaW5jZSBXZXJuZXIgaGFzIGFscmVh ZHkgbGlzdGVkIG91dCByZW1haW5pbmcgaXNzdWVzLCBJIHN1Z2dlc3Qgd2UgYXR0YWNrIHRob3Nl IG9uZSBieSBvbmUgYW5kIGZyZWV6ZSB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgZm9yIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uOg0KDQot IEtleSBCbG9jayBzdWJwYWNrZXQNCi0gQ2xhcmlmeSBob3cgTVBJcyBhcmUgdXNlZCB3aXRoIDI1 NTE5IGFuZCBYNDQ4LiAoR25paWJlIHByb3Bvc2VkIGEgY2hhbmdlIGxhc3QgZmFsbCkNCi0gQWRk IFg0NDgNCi0gRml4IHNvbWUgZmFsbG91dCB3aXRoIHRoZSByZWNlbnRseSBkb25lIG1hcmt1cCBs YW5ndWFnZSBjaGFuZ2UuDQotIEZpbmFsIHByb29mIHJlYWRpbmcNCg0KQXMgb25lIG9mIHRoZSBj by1hdXRob3JzIG9mIHRoZSBiaXMsIEkgZm9yIG9uZSB3b3VsZCBiZSBoYXBweSB0byB2b2x1bnRl ZXIgcGVyZm9ybWluZyBlZGl0cyB3aXRoIFdlcm5lci4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoNClJvbmFsZCBUc2UNClJpYm9zZSBJbmMuDQoNCg== --_000_BC3AC8CCDFEB4396835975A3CEA6B7B0ribosecom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <465212D767878B42893E01AD43407A21@apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0i dGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5IHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdy YXA6IGJyZWFrLXdvcmQ7IC13ZWJraXQtbmJzcC1tb2RlOiBzcGFjZTsgbGluZS1icmVhazogYWZ0 ZXItd2hpdGUtc3BhY2U7IiBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCk1pY2hhZWwsIHRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIGNvbnN0 cnVjdGl2ZSBjb252ZXJzYXRpb24uDQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2 Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj5QYXVsLCBhIHNsaWdodCBjbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9uIGlzIHRoYXQgdGhl IGJpcyBkb2N1bWVudCB3YXMgdW5kZXIgdGhlIHB1cnZpZXcgYW5kIHdvcmsgb2YgdGhlIFdHIOKA lCBidXQgdGhlIFdHIGdvdCBkaXNiYW5kZWQgd2hpbGUgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IHdhcyBzdGlsbCB1bmRl cndheS48L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IGNs YXNzPSIiPlRoZSBjdXJyZW50IGRyYWZ0IHByb2JhYmx5IGJlc3QgcmVwcmVzZW50cyB0aGUg4oCc cHJldmlvdXMmcXVvdDsgY29uc2Vuc3VzIG9mIHRoZSBXRyAod2hpbGUgaXQgZXhpc3RlZCkuPC9k aXY+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj5T aW5jZSBXZXJuZXIgaGFzIGFscmVhZHkgbGlzdGVkIG91dCByZW1haW5pbmcgaXNzdWVzLCBJIHN1 Z2dlc3Qgd2UgYXR0YWNrIHRob3NlIG9uZSBieSBvbmUgYW5kIGZyZWV6ZSB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQg Zm9yIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uOjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8L2Rp dj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YmxvY2txdW90ZSB0eXBlPSJjaXRlIiBjbGFzcz0iIj4tIEtl eSBCbG9jayBzdWJwYWNrZXQ8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxibG9ja3F1b3RlIHR5cGU9 ImNpdGUiIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj4tIENsYXJpZnkgaG93IE1QSXMgYXJlIHVz ZWQgd2l0aCAyNTUxOSBhbmQgWDQ0OC4mbmJzcDsoR25paWJlIHByb3Bvc2VkIGEgY2hhbmdlIGxh c3QgZmFsbCk8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQotIEFkZCBYNDQ4PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KLSBGaXggc29t ZSBmYWxsb3V0IHdpdGggdGhlIHJlY2VudGx5IGRvbmUgbWFya3VwIGxhbmd1YWdlIGNoYW5nZS48 YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQotIEZpbmFsIHByb29mIHJlYWRpbmc8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8L2Rpdj4N CjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2 IGNsYXNzPSIiPkFzIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgY28tYXV0aG9ycyBvZiB0aGUgYmlzLCBJIGZvciBvbmUg d291bGQgYmUgaGFwcHkgdG8gdm9sdW50ZWVyIHBlcmZvcm1pbmcgZWRpdHMgd2l0aCBXZXJuZXIu PC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0i Ij4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iY29sb3I6IHJn YigwLCAwLCAwKTsgbGV0dGVyLXNwYWNpbmc6IG5vcm1hbDsgb3JwaGFuczogYXV0bzsgdGV4dC1h bGlnbjogc3RhcnQ7IHRleHQtaW5kZW50OiAwcHg7IHRleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOiBub25lOyB3aGl0 ZS1zcGFjZTogbm9ybWFsOyB3aWRvd3M6IGF1dG87IHdvcmQtc3BhY2luZzogMHB4OyAtd2Via2l0 LXRleHQtc3Ryb2tlLXdpZHRoOiAwcHg7IHdvcmQtd3JhcDogYnJlYWstd29yZDsgLXdlYmtpdC1u YnNwLW1vZGU6IHNwYWNlOyAtd2Via2l0LWxpbmUtYnJlYWs6IGFmdGVyLXdoaXRlLXNwYWNlOyIg Y2xhc3M9IiI+DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX188L2Rpdj4NCjwv ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9IndvcmQtd3JhcDogYnJlYWstd29yZDsg LXdlYmtpdC1uYnNwLW1vZGU6IHNwYWNlOyBsaW5lLWJyZWFrOiBhZnRlci13aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTsi IGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KUm9uYWxkIFRzZTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NClJpYm9z ZSBJbmMuPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4N CjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_BC3AC8CCDFEB4396835975A3CEA6B7B0ribosecom_-- From nobody Tue Apr 21 02:46:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B873A0B31 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 02:46:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aRT2g80G3xmU for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 02:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com (mail-wr1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 238FE3A0B2C for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 02:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id x18so15743189wrq.2 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 02:46:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=/vjqUdL9xBxSfQdAgl7qX1fFFjRe75XIF8ZT4mM6t7o=; b=BN+vOnT7UFWxDTASr+2755V2A/pV50L059QTv4fBLoaT2emXZTSxB0gIiBy19Yy/U6 RhQ/DhDT5neHsJtUA5/n7YJSEl53D2jIw6VzEB6LuJFLNs6cj+MIbgNRkoFvXyNYj0Q/ WCLY0eVV73NEq4Ezn01W37h9vfwNpHDmGtvJJLXmWRA3mWcgjroMtURn2ontU9YMb3+l 7dfeKdqI/FbHg005nXuRH80XRT4L9r/or2mnFAq05ZVZRT9kxU90lYexHaGyiPQyOLYG fsZjKjvJXULtyVpRnxij0esIs+GiuptlZifxTd8vfSOY3rRsJ8UhzlD5Yrhj/noDJ1mK B8hA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=/vjqUdL9xBxSfQdAgl7qX1fFFjRe75XIF8ZT4mM6t7o=; b=dpCGaQHah5fc7b9AGaHhQU2EjP0io0LY9lQgjVOKF1/Yt6n9IG+AFdcOTxunkrXtB2 DHxYp9VlE2iS8T6IF9ilueaJ+YjjmcXJwvePVpdnLcWf7Z4Yl2DgyJBQRzUlSqx3aiAn IkXYuHdNHb2hkAj0MXtFagh/oLl0ELxKWEiaZNWBGOSYKCcNIeO9Z3/pDm6j+YvHS99V vAdh0btwD8ZdelVQ0GpuLuMN4CYxgwWASbTqVR4Kch5xrtE3FSP6M6Pyy6jbf0DXxeKw Noxzy0JRuuPMUD7smNA7CIBfG9TNjVyVym/4zf8ucwmTE+XwqrKy1agxt1X/2zCnXOjj HSKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuboPlnvr5IkRCspvOtExLDWqWc/NYEKQHhSGnuyfisGty3K01Dn ggH8IepMwFanPPFxofgYDws= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLzgRlQE8HY2b2Sg7BaPLnRnJp2mGxrVyzxni831R7DijXqDJAm/z8eTFMd4z8jDGU8LDIE8w== X-Received: by 2002:adf:8441:: with SMTP id 59mr24383641wrf.237.1587462395693; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 02:46:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (port-92-193-36-215.dynamic.as20676.net. [92.193.36.215]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z16sm3171575wrl.0.2020.04.21.02.46.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 21 Apr 2020 02:46:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Justus Winter To: Werner Koch Cc: "openpgp\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <871roi5y5f.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> <871roi5y5f.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 11:46:33 +0200 Message-ID: <87zhb51892.fsf@europa.jade-hamburg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:46:51 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Werner, Vincent expressed concerns about *how* you fulfilled the role as the editor, not *what* you did as editor. Your response is only about technical details. Werner Koch writes: > On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:35, Ronald Tse said: > >> The said issues would be better resolved by finalizing the RFC 4880bis >> document and publishing it. > > Except for some unimportant details we already had rough consensus on > the I-D a long time ago. There are even at least 3 interoperable > implementations of the new features. There is clearly no consensus, not even a rough one, on key aspects of the draft. The fact that there are multiple implementations supporting the features of said draft does not change that. On the contrary: The official appearance of the draft and the fact that the main author and editor of that draft also controls the most widely used implementation is a strong incentive to implement it. As an implementation, you need to be compatible with GnuPG, whatever it does. If GnuPG starts emitting something, you should better be ready to consume it, otherwise your users will assume that your implementation is faulty. But, that is not consenting, that is being bullied. From=20the top of my head, areas of major contention are the scope of changes and AEAD. > With the attacks on the keyserver in the last summer there was the idea > to add countermeasures to the I-D. They are now specified (attestation > key signatures) and I am not aware of technical problems with that > proposal. Vincent mentioned a major technical problem with this: What is supposed to be hashed for attestation signatures differs from all other signatures. There is no motivation given for this. This either needs to be aligned with how other signatures are computed, or properly motivated. > Right, the Key Block subpacket[1] has not yet been discussed but I hope > this is non-controversial because it is another workaround for the > keyserver problems and allows for better decentralized use. Have you considered discussing this with us? For the record, this idea has been discussed on this list before [0], and there were concerns raised in that thread. 0: 87ef6v71jm.fsf@europa.jade-hamburg.de All the best, Justus --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEJWpOVeSnLZetJGjniNx+MzhfeR0FAl6ewPkACgkQiNx+Mzhf eR0C7wf/ScN9DYSeTGCD65rPSqS+3iMRvJMYmiA29WYj18lug4mhC2YRPFITaEii ZBhLXN+0H4n9biQbsFnDPO9qpELIl47Z3zZshpVF1gIN2SAO0uMCMekVR+2Gnk1L b3jSDs8DZQnAK05en8YpLJPQVDQALWDXypoCGJaT4paiQDs7wYGY7ZRpzFWdI8i6 dZPUi/P8dXshwz7/Lr4hhGOAiIRHFqFKxprVySLuTfxM5Wqc8ydnqo95oJMTno8C 7keUZ3KOvjwNzlzLOp7jMg9/WFTEDrnqhVfY6Dne/Vlwzorl8drjVE9/hY7NfIQ9 pz0xbRhqmh/6MvywMylqWCCD+hkpuw== =krCY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 03:27:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 299B63A09B0 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:27:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uiNvMLPAkx5P for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 731613A09BB for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id k1so19928150wrx.4 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:27:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=qJVHH8PBV+JrmZOGKamdtapKZRzI/lttwW7esEH9W1c=; b=rbILeQd03FADPAk4rXS2kw6i7KreCdbhzFD/yKgP7OO83zVIJh8YA9fyEMva/mMhsU beRy5YKvASNdI3/iMAIGx8qh8LFqVC4RGsiiwRAyuntCtjHd0ssatvSpIX1RyaH8H96G pdlaPUNZTXgJgRikgkjtB7xclqaV8x9NTwb+76Gbkok6GlSNiYFEcoE/AeVMmkkhG31V ukY4Kwf1p9aScgeSl6i5Uu0xargxvc+vD3g0mw5k4nqQ8qQMs5AMl8eud3h87KXrYxqJ fIF6ZGBupO6jvFEs1675/TZTSyK7m0K1oQnd1MOL1xJikRLnXECLvbX01ZGxKwoJVw89 hEYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=qJVHH8PBV+JrmZOGKamdtapKZRzI/lttwW7esEH9W1c=; b=ZeebOCaACHMnqiUjo2ZyX2m6QIximxdci1Nnn7VeET0DVEPUeW6nvD3R9mcgB7l9yb Wn0LArTbAmTKnjWgp+Rf1zy4Vhm0GSwvXuLsrESpV1Itt75TByX/SyldKLbm5CiBONnh FSosqeTt2YMxZMtVWPc4Tqaw7oX9bj+wYwhC+tZ2pibrFXimkB7BbuP3b6p8YY7qx082 sTdzUtSM29eU9WNDM1NGsWhkSKpDIf1OmjRXA+VtSZ0I3LYab7PLRjAZ2DQCG82lttha skGiEyq8K5Kzc1ydaU3ShGyySp9EmOq/VBv+nE3aWdYtKrYxGPTeIzrifJKOmdlqYdfX D2QA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pubttg+g04/liodvRmLIC7jFc3p1xotSNp49hH0GC427B+2IqWz5 btG78BngPVCHzFmdzGV8Z7NuD/ch X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLJSQQ6QQt/wBngFxL5+TRJHz9TwOMJgfHHe7jzaYoXmasjlGQoFHce4+Wilh1CWIs3nHTo9Q== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:664f:: with SMTP id f15mr25498553wrw.72.1587983260501; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (port-92-193-52-218.dynamic.as20676.net. [92.193.52.218]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t2sm15510512wmt.15.2020.04.27.03.27.38 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:27:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Justus Winter To: openpgp@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:27:37 +0200 Message-ID: <877dy1ql46.fsf@europa.jade-hamburg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:27:45 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fellow OpenPGP developers, Vincent's email has resulted in a number of discussions among the Sequoia team. I believe that we roughly share the same opinion, and I'd like to share that with you in this note. In an increasingly heterogeneous computing landscape, having multiple interoperable implementations is becoming an ever more important goal for OpenPGP. Incompatibilities are bound to confuse or anger users, making them leave the OpenPGP ecosystem. A common protocol and interoperable implementations are a core concern of our effort. Although we are working on a general-purpose OpenPGP implementation, we take the position that multiple implementations are better for the ecosystem. Hence, we are convinced that a working group that includes all stakeholders is essential to our individual and shared success. From=20the top of my head, these are a few ways we tried or are trying to improve the situation: - At the general meeting of the GnuPG e.V. in 2018 (Brussels, 2018-02-02) we asked if and how we or the Verein can help the standardization effort. Werner declined any help, dismissing the fact that help is needed. He mentioned that there is a interoperating implementation (RNP) with respect to the largest change (the addition of AEAD), so rough consensus had been reached, and the finalization of the RFC was imminent. Unfortunately, there is no transcript that we know of. - We repeated that question in the following year at the 2019 general meeting (Brussels, 2019-02-02). It was again declined. There is no transcript that we know of. - We tried to collaborate on the RFC4880bis draft, but our contributions were largely ignored as Vincent described. - We created an interoperability test suite [0]. This test suite has been successful in identifying problems in many OpenPGP implementations. We reported the problems that we found in the different implementations, and the response was almost universally positive. The exception was the GnuPG project, where Werner outright dismissed any findings ([1], [2]). Now, Werner is free to dismiss contributions in his personal project, but this alone should raise some red flags. 0: https://tests.sequoia-pgp.org/ 1: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4725 2: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4727 However, as editor of the RFC, he cannot treat contributors to OpenPGP as he treats potential contributors to GnuPG, e.g., closing bug reports with the reason "spite" [3]. The recent addition of the "key block" subpacket to RFC4880bis which he committed on the same day as the implementation in GnuPG suggests that Werner thinks that he has the authority to change the standard like he changes GnuPG. Changing the standard should be a group effort, which we tried to engage in, but were blocked by Werner. 3: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4904 As the editor, Werner acted inconsistently. For example, he cannot be bothered to read and follow up on the merge requests and issues at the Gitlab project he uses to work on RFC4880bis, saying that we agreed to discuss any issues on the mailing list. On the other hand, he quietly works on the draft without involving the mailing list, requiring us to pick up on changes by inspecting his repository. With respect to the content, we can observe similar inconsistencies. Over four years ago, the draft was changed to make user ids on certificates optional [4], but just last month, Werner "clarified" (sic), without any discussion, that this was not meant for general purpose implementations, presumably to back his dismissal [6] of a patch improving interoperability with https://keys.openpgp.org. On the other hand, he dismissed any changes to the AEAD encrypted data packet because there are already implementations out there [7]. 4: https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/commit/3c3120a02d7b44621f3a= 7361ef75bdb7b7ade259 5: https://gitlab.com/openpgp-wg/rfc4880bis/-/commit/6fd718d39fc8db20e473= 1350899db1b7c48c721e 6: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4393 7: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/openpgp/J428Mqq3-pHTU4C76EgP5sPk= vtA/ We'd like to add another crass example to Vincent's list of examples where Werner ignored questions, contributions or advice. In the aftermath of the EFAIL discoveries, there was a meeting of security experts and implementers in the offices of the German BSI on 2018-06-29. There were over two dozen people present including the EFAIL authors, Phil Zimmermann and some people on this list (maybe people that were present could corroborate the following anecdote). The meeting started with the authors of EFAIL presenting their work and potential solutions. With the exception of Werner, everyone was in agreement that EFAIL is a protocol and implementation issue, and that a good solution would be to use AEAD to detect manipulated ciphertext. Werner disagreed. He dismissed the EFAIL findings as a MUA problem, and the solution as unnecessary. A large part of the meeting was then spent discussing Werner's position. Werner refused to budge despite everyone else being in agreement on the major points. We are not keen on rehashing the chunk size discussion here, but the reccurring theme is that Werner dismisses contributions that he disagrees with. We have great respect for Werner. For over two decades, he kept OpenPGP alive in the form of GnuPG, despite the many, many naysers. That's a forlorn fight. And, we think it is worth noting, that we have this respect for him despite the tragic ending to our collaboration on GnuPG and our friendship nearly three years ago. Unfortunately, we fear that what made Werner so strong---his ability to discard criticism and focus on what he thinks is correct---makes him unsuited to be in a position that requires consensus building, which, as we understand it, is the fundamental role of the editor. We very much want to see OpenPGP evolve, but are afraid that Werner's role as the editor is an obstacle to this. We support Vincent's suggestion to restart work on RFC4880bis by starting from RFC4880 and incorporating only changes in line with the working group's charter. We would be happy to contribute to this effort. For the Sequoia-PGP team, Justus --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEJWpOVeSnLZetJGjniNx+MzhfeR0FAl6ms5kACgkQiNx+Mzhf eR34Pwf/SywUEYeVgPwX/BTUDP0yddByK7ulVkA10y1dceipiqU5mvLICFVlH+OR KL8XIZ3BwwTurop8dt5PxEcUzdHyszf5Ga5MyyeeOQtVykwFgmv9ZLaDX9WoiE+9 UesCCaB35ZWrSwAVEkkQZhdtvTQSQFRrAvwoFgkow748glw1kch6MAnGh0PCtyVu IM+9/pmM1szJjDiU5uzBmJ3t0h/+g80mJyD6/qzD6C+zhlEs3k2fQAXgVBNJclhX Pcc4GyW6YJfUGD7g7SU2ZXnWVLAIEhn4g8eXqRUXiWzo5rDwIfrB001JpTW/7TNp cNlIhs0B3/xTvMPZizAz0p4b5V6sdA== =xi05 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 03:46:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BDA73A0A51 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:46:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1WqTsmyLR-DQ for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 188163A0A4A for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id l19so17026978lje.10 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:46:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to :message-id; bh=qaAj63n0AAJQCFRCf6ZsIWBqus/PG1BRDRVPBBzRkiY=; b=nwDutNyU01sZKRsNGdPaHAN+RBsN2iBr1TwlqiiqT6NTEV9W7ia1fHgKDoD6hrnBzD BNYzXYYX3giqHmfTFuz3cJyHUtiMBybw8ubMsGWAd7ZPxhqnG0tPtVsW5DK7+wnwyFTe ypZmH6fEfwqG64Iq6WyxPgBO04bNpoy5Dltv/OeqXSf7rayfwF02cMkVQzqarZjv2q7f clDSqpaZajzpX2EwE35EZK5K5RiXJa9M/WjotUMuam6xenvC1xnc0sfLWIL9GL1+jgN+ F8vu2kZtk/1QKEhPuZcNAh9bAD02xqc4Q5/jVU8GMmSTG7d0fBtREbIy2T77+H4GyiyM k3lw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=qaAj63n0AAJQCFRCf6ZsIWBqus/PG1BRDRVPBBzRkiY=; b=K/VxeBFNrinijDE3S9mXQxcf3E+oNsEh6kJNNX60hJ8fOg4WuqCFhofYTOTgYad1BS Po4PihwEelOMyoQI62Y00YBxO9PPxvSjpz1QF8aIE2PRt2kndKBz51UKD6bcZUQww1A9 RXGOVGP7f3zB43g+JqAGTUp1BgXoXentRCJmH5rW1Zu5iTsiON6wsfKypSmUBbTeLXw6 /8Dt/mTNs6/ULArbQV+xmR3rKzcf/MIYcDMoOeLH+9xnOmLNbjE0fDbV3wxNq5m+mC+K wpEH1/tZq9tfYNhtRjB8KCUBPymvCi4wbbYdx1BQ94BMlMnDzx5WvSKyrKb2qJJNN45+ 5xfg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYWnyYPwOGBAkWTWOPhmZIkQ4zgRCer6vc+UouJngUyuobEPO/i G9/zNuUYSldesW7KQbz0qcgoqiyr X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypITksvYka6UAYg9MHB+50rvf9rSOMhMm58BYK1dlumi7GKJFp7dvOpGZbDgelvR6yq1DXZJkA== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:96d1:: with SMTP id d17mr13951459ljj.239.1587984402095; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.190] ([93.171.163.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 64sm11190662lfh.32.2020.04.27.03.46.41 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Nickolay Olshevsky From: Nickolay Olshevsky Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EE583C67-8E00-4983-9E33-ECC9818ACF94" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:46:33 +0300 References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> <877dy1ql46.fsf@europa.jade-hamburg.de> To: IETF OpenPGP In-Reply-To: <877dy1ql46.fsf@europa.jade-hamburg.de> Message-Id: <7BC976A0-0829-41D6-8715-DB188E8EE6BE@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:46:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EE583C67-8E00-4983-9E33-ECC9818ACF94 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi group, While it=E2=80=99s almost the same and (mostly) duplicates contents of = the previous messages, it adds links to some closed issues in GnuPG bug = tracker. Those seems to be closed absolutely logically, since were pointing to = unsupported configurations/non-release GPG versions. And I don=E2=80=99t think we should mix together development of some = project(s) with work on internet draft. Best regards, Nickolay Olshevsky o.nickolay@gmail.com ... > - We created an interoperability test suite [0]. This test suite > has been successful in identifying problems in many OpenPGP > implementations. We reported the problems that we found in the > different implementations, and the response was almost universally > positive. The exception was the GnuPG project, where Werner > outright dismissed any findings ([1], [2]). Now, Werner is free > to dismiss contributions in his personal project, but this alone > should raise some red flags. >=20 > 0: https://tests.sequoia-pgp.org/ > 1: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4725 > 2: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4727 >=20 > However, as editor of the RFC, he cannot treat contributors to OpenPGP > as he treats potential contributors to GnuPG, e.g., closing bug > reports with the reason "spite" [3]. The recent addition of the "key > block" subpacket to RFC4880bis which he committed on the same day as > the implementation in GnuPG suggests that Werner thinks that he has > the authority to change the standard like he changes GnuPG. Changing > the standard should be a group effort, which we tried to engage in, > but were blocked by Werner. >=20 > 3: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4904 >=20 ... >=20 > For the Sequoia-PGP team, > Justus > _______________________________________________ > openpgp mailing list > openpgp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp --Apple-Mail=_EE583C67-8E00-4983-9E33-ECC9818ACF94 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi group,
While it=E2=80=99s almost the = same and (mostly) duplicates contents of the previous messages, it adds = links to some closed issues in GnuPG bug tracker.
Those seems to be closed absolutely logically, since were = pointing to unsupported configurations/non-release GPG = versions.
And I don=E2=80=99t think we should mix = together development of some project(s) with work on internet = draft.

Best regards,
= Nickolay Olshevsky

...
 - We created an interoperability test suite [0]. =  This test suite
=    has been successful in identifying problems in many = OpenPGP
   implementations.  We = reported the problems that we found in the
=    different implementations, and the response was almost = universally
   positive.  The = exception was the GnuPG project, where Werner
=    outright dismissed any findings ([1], [2]).  Now, = Werner is free
   to dismiss contributions = in his personal project, but this alone
=    should raise some red flags.

   0: https://tests.sequoia-pgp.org/
=    1: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4725
=    2: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4727

However, as editor of the RFC, he cannot treat contributors = to OpenPGP
as he treats potential contributors to GnuPG, = e.g., closing bug
reports with the reason "spite" [3]. =  The recent addition of the "key
block" subpacket to = RFC4880bis which he committed on the same day as
the = implementation in GnuPG suggests that Werner thinks that he has
the authority to change the standard like he changes GnuPG. =  Changing
the standard should be a group effort, = which we tried to engage in,
but were blocked by = Werner.

 3: https://dev.gnupg.org/T4904

...

For the Sequoia-PGP team,
Justus
_______________________________________________
openpgp mailing list
openpgp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp

= --Apple-Mail=_EE583C67-8E00-4983-9E33-ECC9818ACF94-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 04:43:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9878A3A00C9 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 04:43:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ribose.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jbZthnIMAnXi for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 04:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from APC01-SG2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr1310041.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.131.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E32853A00C1 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 04:43:00 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=eiTZkKgpeB423LRTGINTKz9mEfwoXwrEqP4fhbedbiBbIQlIXxYcArPjXraOheq7A0+GdOpOAA54FHP5SViTp9fS5MDtU/Y+TG9XFWdXPhixo5r/cYbzmPIrEYOvfy/WcNVT9BIe9ZgkylZ/sUQXgYfid1MWOjz8eBeQ9hzXe6NEWvBcd8oj7TzF7fr410g0E3/5FzFvfDss/jT4WWDoJ5leGzBUPX+6v3lKhldYY4rw8P1oLzIDOh9MPdyJ8PQfG2JimRUdvX0+c4BhHt4FwqkFuOEA+/7OfhPNB/yFB4hD54qHA/6ZdaVmcNG5YgJxYKj6VSr9LGsOoLNXifOiHA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=S8oCoFdAULJS+fSOuykZp++btYcXklQFlzKkdAY9oz8=; b=NbDe6vS5rvUxJnwtReLxYCkbG1gVLrKXAH7n/TjF3fnbf9jFqbgAXwpn5ygxUzaSYfoEOTQXBoWFHW21507PAa1u5XIKvbKaThEz/3nlFFCrqp78thMXE2Ske4aSXrenFAvS9U1KzLcTwJPeBFVNx3dALptEqWmPHR1uviaNioKHiAjkgfkcsgZthY7L520HoGw/4++xvYXEYa4u1iyuMJwKpO0nZtzMtgufEBb9rrQeTbQv9y4p4nrDLU5xFhxmwwWsc12q4+6zlHXZbQFzSAZm5V1YCsDjFekJKSNYNEoPOCF+E2sSgYz0Hw+DtWwgCFX4h7ZENqVHdXNY0DcycA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ribose.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ribose.com; dkim=pass header.d=ribose.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ribose.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=S8oCoFdAULJS+fSOuykZp++btYcXklQFlzKkdAY9oz8=; b=OBdLgeBAkI5F9kxeQ527PMOIMRlZEdYFXt6DSai+u7yveBB9ctMjhLcOcysRhojsmriVxMdoCM2aK+i4rPisd6J7zAdA/oMG3/eke1dI+2CrxzVr48C9b1wr6d09gCd5jdeXatyD4idnYI4I6Dajo9KQyhWF4SrOdS6hSQb0gME= Received: from HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:1096:203:9e::20) by HK0PR01MB2530.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:1096:203:38::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2937.22; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:42:56 +0000 Received: from HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::5115:9eb0:2cd0:9c7a]) by HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::5115:9eb0:2cd0:9c7a%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2937.023; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:42:56 +0000 From: Ronald Tse To: IETF OpenPGP Thread-Topic: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down Thread-Index: AQHWFKGp2IdQB7/aQUG8nRcMszGApaiM066AgAAFSoCAAA+8AA== Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:42:55 +0000 Message-ID: <81F75783-1225-45E0-9B0F-B902629F822C@ribose.com> References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> <877dy1ql46.fsf@europa.jade-hamburg.de> <7BC976A0-0829-41D6-8715-DB188E8EE6BE@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7BC976A0-0829-41D6-8715-DB188E8EE6BE@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=tse@ribose.com; x-originating-ip: [58.153.245.161] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a3416a42-94b5-4d89-e918-08d7eaa020bf x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HK0PR01MB2530: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0386B406AA x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:HK0PR01MB2770.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(376002)(136003)(396003)(346002)(39830400003)(366004)(33656002)(91956017)(2616005)(6486002)(2906002)(36756003)(76116006)(6916009)(6512007)(64756008)(66476007)(66556008)(66446008)(66946007)(53546011)(966005)(6506007)(66574012)(186003)(26005)(86362001)(316002)(8936002)(81156014)(8676002)(71200400001)(508600001)(5660300002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ribose.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_81F75783122545E09B0FB902629F822Cribosecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ribose.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a3416a42-94b5-4d89-e918-08d7eaa020bf X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Apr 2020 11:42:55.9800 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d98a04ff-ef98-489b-b33c-13c23a2e091a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: VpNxSfmWsHJ0B544aTexUpP7wHZbxIhhsVcddlic5eXZ0P64slFtQkAkP1hpDO7n X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HK0PR01MB2530 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:43:06 -0000 --_000_81F75783122545E09B0FB902629F822Cribosecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U2luY2Ugb3VyIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIChSTlApIGlzIG1lbnRpb25lZCwgSeKAmWQgbGlrZSB0 byBjbGFyaWZ5IG91ciBzdGFuY2Ug4oCUIGluIHRoZSBwYXN0IDIgeWVhcnMsIHdlIGhhdmUgaGFk IHplcm8gaXNzdWVzIHdpdGggV2VybmVy4oCZcyBlZGl0aW5nIG9mIHRoZSBkcmFmdC4NCg0KRnJv bSBteSBleHBlcmllbmNlIGhlIHdhcyBhbHdheXMgY29sbGVnaWFsIGFuZCB1bmRlcnN0YW5kaW5n IHJlZ2FyZGluZyBjb21tZW50cyBnaXZlbiBvbiB0aGlzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCAoYW5kIGluIHBl cnNvbmFsIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb24pLg0KDQpJdCBzZWVtcyB0aGF0IGEgbnVtYmVyIG9mIG9iamVj dGlvbnMgd2VyZSByYWlzZWQgZnJvbSBwZXJzb25hbCBpbnRlcmFjdGlvbnMgb2NjdXJyaW5nIG91 dHNpZGUgb2YgdGhlIGxpc3QsIGFuZCB0aG9zZSBhcmUgbm90IHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aXZlIG9mIGFs bCBtZW1iZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBleC3igJxPcGVuUEdQIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXDigJ0gKGNlcnRhaW5s eSBub3QgbWluZSkuIEl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHBydWRlbnQgdG8gc3RlZXIgdGhpcyBkaXNjdXNzaW9u IGF3YXkgZnJvbSBwZXJzb25hbGl0eSBhdHRhY2tzLg0KDQpJIHN1Z2dlc3QgdGhhdCB0aGUgY3Vy cmVudCBkcmFmdCwgd2hpY2ggd2UgaGF2ZSBoYWQgc2lnbmlmaWNhbnQgY29uc2Vuc3VzIGZvciB0 aGUgcGFzdCBtYW55IG1vbnRocywgdG8gbW92ZSBmb3J3YXJkIGFzIHRoZSBvdXRjb21lIGluc3Rl YWQgb2Yg4oCccmV3cml0aW5nIHRoZSBiaXPigJ0gd2hpY2ggdGhlcmUgaGFzIGJlZW4gbm8gY29u c2Vuc3VzIG9uLiBUaGlzIHdpbGwgcmVzb2x2ZSB0aGUgY29tcGxhaW50cyBvZiDigJx0aGUgZWRp dG9yIGlzIG5vdCBhY3RpbmfigJ0uDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18NCg0KUm9uYWxkIFRzZQ0KUmlib3NlIEluYy4NCg0KT24gQXByIDI3LCAyMDIwLCBhdCA2 OjQ2IFBNLCBOaWNrb2xheSBPbHNoZXZza3kgPG8ubmlja29sYXlAZ21haWwuY29tPG1haWx0bzpv Lm5pY2tvbGF5QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQpIaSBncm91cCwNCldoaWxlIGl04oCZcyBh bG1vc3QgdGhlIHNhbWUgYW5kIChtb3N0bHkpIGR1cGxpY2F0ZXMgY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhlIHBy ZXZpb3VzIG1lc3NhZ2VzLCBpdCBhZGRzIGxpbmtzIHRvIHNvbWUgY2xvc2VkIGlzc3VlcyBpbiBH bnVQRyBidWcgdHJhY2tlci4NClRob3NlIHNlZW1zIHRvIGJlIGNsb3NlZCBhYnNvbHV0ZWx5IGxv Z2ljYWxseSwgc2luY2Ugd2VyZSBwb2ludGluZyB0byB1bnN1cHBvcnRlZCBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9u cy9ub24tcmVsZWFzZSBHUEcgdmVyc2lvbnMuDQpBbmQgSSBkb27igJl0IHRoaW5rIHdlIHNob3Vs ZCBtaXggdG9nZXRoZXIgZGV2ZWxvcG1lbnQgb2Ygc29tZSBwcm9qZWN0KHMpIHdpdGggd29yayBv biBpbnRlcm5ldCBkcmFmdC4NCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KTmlja29sYXkgT2xzaGV2c2t5DQpv Lm5pY2tvbGF5QGdtYWlsLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86by5uaWNrb2xheUBnbWFpbC5jb20+DQoNCi4uLg0K IC0gV2UgY3JlYXRlZCBhbiBpbnRlcm9wZXJhYmlsaXR5IHRlc3Qgc3VpdGUgWzBdLiAgVGhpcyB0 ZXN0IHN1aXRlDQogICBoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWNjZXNzZnVsIGluIGlkZW50aWZ5aW5nIHByb2JsZW1z IGluIG1hbnkgT3BlblBHUA0KICAgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zLiAgV2UgcmVwb3J0ZWQgdGhlIHBy b2JsZW1zIHRoYXQgd2UgZm91bmQgaW4gdGhlDQogICBkaWZmZXJlbnQgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25z LCBhbmQgdGhlIHJlc3BvbnNlIHdhcyBhbG1vc3QgdW5pdmVyc2FsbHkNCiAgIHBvc2l0aXZlLiAg VGhlIGV4Y2VwdGlvbiB3YXMgdGhlIEdudVBHIHByb2plY3QsIHdoZXJlIFdlcm5lcg0KICAgb3V0 cmlnaHQgZGlzbWlzc2VkIGFueSBmaW5kaW5ncyAoWzFdLCBbMl0pLiAgTm93LCBXZXJuZXIgaXMg ZnJlZQ0KICAgdG8gZGlzbWlzcyBjb250cmlidXRpb25zIGluIGhpcyBwZXJzb25hbCBwcm9qZWN0 LCBidXQgdGhpcyBhbG9uZQ0KICAgc2hvdWxkIHJhaXNlIHNvbWUgcmVkIGZsYWdzLg0KDQogICAw OiBodHRwczovL3Rlc3RzLnNlcXVvaWEtcGdwLm9yZy8NCiAgIDE6IGh0dHBzOi8vZGV2LmdudXBn Lm9yZy9UNDcyNQ0KICAgMjogaHR0cHM6Ly9kZXYuZ251cGcub3JnL1Q0NzI3DQoNCkhvd2V2ZXIs IGFzIGVkaXRvciBvZiB0aGUgUkZDLCBoZSBjYW5ub3QgdHJlYXQgY29udHJpYnV0b3JzIHRvIE9w ZW5QR1ANCmFzIGhlIHRyZWF0cyBwb3RlbnRpYWwgY29udHJpYnV0b3JzIHRvIEdudVBHLCBlLmcu LCBjbG9zaW5nIGJ1Zw0KcmVwb3J0cyB3aXRoIHRoZSByZWFzb24gInNwaXRlIiBbM10uICBUaGUg cmVjZW50IGFkZGl0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSAia2V5DQpibG9jayIgc3VicGFja2V0IHRvIFJGQzQ4ODBi aXMgd2hpY2ggaGUgY29tbWl0dGVkIG9uIHRoZSBzYW1lIGRheSBhcw0KdGhlIGltcGxlbWVudGF0 aW9uIGluIEdudVBHIHN1Z2dlc3RzIHRoYXQgV2VybmVyIHRoaW5rcyB0aGF0IGhlIGhhcw0KdGhl IGF1dGhvcml0eSB0byBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJkIGxpa2UgaGUgY2hhbmdlcyBHbnVQRy4g IENoYW5naW5nDQp0aGUgc3RhbmRhcmQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGEgZ3JvdXAgZWZmb3J0LCB3aGljaCB3 ZSB0cmllZCB0byBlbmdhZ2UgaW4sDQpidXQgd2VyZSBibG9ja2VkIGJ5IFdlcm5lci4NCg0KIDM6 IGh0dHBzOi8vZGV2LmdudXBnLm9yZy9UNDkwNA0KDQouLi4NCg0KRm9yIHRoZSBTZXF1b2lhLVBH UCB0ZWFtLA0KSnVzdHVzDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXw0Kb3BlbnBncCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCm9wZW5wZ3BAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOm9w ZW5wZ3BAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29w ZW5wZ3ANCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18N Cm9wZW5wZ3AgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpvcGVucGdwQGlldGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzpvcGVucGdwQGll dGYub3JnPg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9vcGVucGdwDQoN Cg== --_000_81F75783122545E09B0FB902629F822Cribosecom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <672D9CC12D7E3B4795956C0E9F9E208C@apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0i dGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5IHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdy YXA6IGJyZWFrLXdvcmQ7IC13ZWJraXQtbmJzcC1tb2RlOiBzcGFjZTsgbGluZS1icmVhazogYWZ0 ZXItd2hpdGUtc3BhY2U7IiBjbGFzcz0iIj4NClNpbmNlIG91ciBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiAoUk5Q KSBpcyBtZW50aW9uZWQsIEnigJlkIGxpa2UgdG8gY2xhcmlmeSBvdXIgc3RhbmNlIOKAlCBpbiB0 aGUgcGFzdCAyIHllYXJzLCB3ZSBoYXZlIGhhZCB6ZXJvIGlzc3VlcyB3aXRoIFdlcm5lcuKAmXMg ZWRpdGluZyBvZiB0aGUgZHJhZnQuDQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2 Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj5Gcm9tIG15IGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgaGUgd2FzIGFsd2F5cyBjb2xsZWdp YWwgYW5kIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcgcmVnYXJkaW5nIGNvbW1lbnRzIGdpdmVuIG9uIHRoaXMgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0IChhbmQgaW4gcGVyc29uYWwgY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbikuPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IGNs YXNzPSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj5JdCBzZWVtcyB0aGF0 IGEgbnVtYmVyIG9mIG9iamVjdGlvbnMgd2VyZSByYWlzZWQgZnJvbSBwZXJzb25hbCBpbnRlcmFj dGlvbnMgb2NjdXJyaW5nIG91dHNpZGUgb2YgdGhlIGxpc3QsIGFuZCB0aG9zZSBhcmUgbm90IHJl cHJlc2VudGF0aXZlIG9mIGFsbCBtZW1iZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBleC3igJxPcGVuUEdQIHdvcmtpbmcg Z3JvdXDigJ0gKGNlcnRhaW5seSBub3QgbWluZSkuIEl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHBydWRlbnQgdG8gc3Rl ZXIgdGhpcw0KIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gYXdheSBmcm9tIHBlcnNvbmFsaXR5IGF0dGFja3MuPC9kaXY+ DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj5JIHN1 Z2dlc3QgdGhhdCB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBkcmFmdCwgd2hpY2ggd2UgaGF2ZSBoYWQgc2lnbmlmaWNh bnQgY29uc2Vuc3VzIGZvciB0aGUgcGFzdCBtYW55IG1vbnRocywgdG8gbW92ZSBmb3J3YXJkIGFz IHRoZSBvdXRjb21lIGluc3RlYWQgb2Yg4oCccmV3cml0aW5nIHRoZSBiaXPigJ0gd2hpY2ggdGhl cmUgaGFzIGJlZW4gbm8gY29uc2Vuc3VzIG9uLiBUaGlzIHdpbGwgcmVzb2x2ZSB0aGUgY29tcGxh aW50cyBvZiDigJx0aGUgZWRpdG9yDQogaXMgbm90IGFjdGluZ+KAnS4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+ PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImNvbG9yOiByZ2IoMCwg MCwgMCk7IGxldHRlci1zcGFjaW5nOiBub3JtYWw7IG9ycGhhbnM6IGF1dG87IHRleHQtYWxpZ246 IHN0YXJ0OyB0ZXh0LWluZGVudDogMHB4OyB0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTogbm9uZTsgd2hpdGUtc3Bh Y2U6IG5vcm1hbDsgd2lkb3dzOiBhdXRvOyB3b3JkLXNwYWNpbmc6IDBweDsgLXdlYmtpdC10ZXh0 LXN0cm9rZS13aWR0aDogMHB4OyB3b3JkLXdyYXA6IGJyZWFrLXdvcmQ7IC13ZWJraXQtbmJzcC1t b2RlOiBzcGFjZTsgLXdlYmtpdC1saW5lLWJyZWFrOiBhZnRlci13aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTsiIGNsYXNz PSIiPg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4N CjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NClJvbmFsZCBUc2U8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpSaWJvc2UgSW5jLjxiciBj bGFzcz0iIj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPGJsb2NrcXVv dGUgdHlwZT0iY2l0ZSIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPk9uIEFwciAyNywgMjAyMCwg YXQgNjo0NiBQTSwgTmlja29sYXkgT2xzaGV2c2t5ICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86by5uaWNr b2xheUBnbWFpbC5jb20iIGNsYXNzPSIiPm8ubmlja29sYXlAZ21haWwuY29tPC9hPiZndDsgd3Jv dGU6PC9kaXY+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IkFwcGxlLWludGVyY2hhbmdlLW5ld2xpbmUiPg0KPGRpdiBj bGFzcz0iIj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9IndvcmQtd3JhcDogYnJlYWstd29yZDsgLXdlYmtpdC1uYnNw LW1vZGU6IHNwYWNlOyBsaW5lLWJyZWFrOiBhZnRlci13aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTsiIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0K PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj5IaSBncm91cCw8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+V2hpbGUgaXTigJlz IGFsbW9zdCB0aGUgc2FtZSBhbmQgKG1vc3RseSkgZHVwbGljYXRlcyBjb250ZW50cyBvZiB0aGUg cHJldmlvdXMgbWVzc2FnZXMsIGl0IGFkZHMgbGlua3MgdG8gc29tZSBjbG9zZWQgaXNzdWVzIGlu IEdudVBHIGJ1ZyB0cmFja2VyLjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj5UaG9zZSBzZWVtcyB0byBi ZSBjbG9zZWQgYWJzb2x1dGVseSBsb2dpY2FsbHksIHNpbmNlIHdlcmUgcG9pbnRpbmcgdG8gdW5z dXBwb3J0ZWQgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbnMvbm9uLXJlbGVhc2UgR1BHIHZlcnNpb25zLjwvZGl2Pg0K PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj5BbmQgSSBkb27igJl0IHRoaW5rIHdlIHNob3VsZCBtaXggdG9nZXRoZXIg ZGV2ZWxvcG1lbnQgb2Ygc29tZSBwcm9qZWN0KHMpIHdpdGggd29yayBvbiBpbnRlcm5ldCBkcmFm dC48L2Rpdj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJmb250 LWZhbWlseTogSGVsdmV0aWNhOyBmb250LXNpemU6IDEycHg7IGZvbnQtc3R5bGU6IG5vcm1hbDsg Zm9udC12YXJpYW50LWNhcHM6IG5vcm1hbDsgZm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6IG5vcm1hbDsgbGV0dGVyLXNw YWNpbmc6IG5vcm1hbDsgdGV4dC1hbGlnbjogc3RhcnQ7IHRleHQtaW5kZW50OiAwcHg7IHRleHQt dHJhbnNmb3JtOiBub25lOyB3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTogbm9ybWFsOyB3b3JkLXNwYWNpbmc6IDBweDsg LXdlYmtpdC10ZXh0LXN0cm9rZS13aWR0aDogMHB4OyIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMs PC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJmb250LWZhbWlseTogSGVsdmV0aWNhOyBmb250LXNpemU6IDEy cHg7IGZvbnQtc3R5bGU6IG5vcm1hbDsgZm9udC12YXJpYW50LWNhcHM6IG5vcm1hbDsgZm9udC13 ZWlnaHQ6IG5vcm1hbDsgbGV0dGVyLXNwYWNpbmc6IG5vcm1hbDsgdGV4dC1hbGlnbjogc3RhcnQ7 IHRleHQtaW5kZW50OiAwcHg7IHRleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOiBub25lOyB3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTogbm9y bWFsOyB3b3JkLXNwYWNpbmc6IDBweDsgLXdlYmtpdC10ZXh0LXN0cm9rZS13aWR0aDogMHB4OyIg Y2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8c3BhbiBjbGFzcz0iQXBwbGUtdGFiLXNwYW4iIHN0eWxlPSJ3aGl0ZS1zcGFj ZTogcHJlOyI+PC9zcGFuPk5pY2tvbGF5IE9sc2hldnNreTwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iZm9u dC1mYW1pbHk6IEhlbHZldGljYTsgZm9udC1zaXplOiAxMnB4OyBmb250LXN0eWxlOiBub3JtYWw7 IGZvbnQtdmFyaWFudC1jYXBzOiBub3JtYWw7IGZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OiBub3JtYWw7IGxldHRlci1z cGFjaW5nOiBub3JtYWw7IHRleHQtYWxpZ246IHN0YXJ0OyB0ZXh0LWluZGVudDogMHB4OyB0ZXh0 LXRyYW5zZm9ybTogbm9uZTsgd2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6IG5vcm1hbDsgd29yZC1zcGFjaW5nOiAwcHg7 IC13ZWJraXQtdGV4dC1zdHJva2Utd2lkdGg6IDBweDsiIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9 IkFwcGxlLXRhYi1zcGFuIiBzdHlsZT0id2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6IHByZTsiPjwvc3Bhbj48YSBocmVm PSJtYWlsdG86by5uaWNrb2xheUBnbWFpbC5jb20iIGNsYXNzPSIiPm8ubmlja29sYXlAZ21haWwu Y29tPC9hPjwvZGl2Pg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSJBcHBsZS1pbnRlcmNoYW5nZS1uZXdsaW5lIj4NCjwv ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj4uLi48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YmxvY2txdW90ZSB0eXBlPSJj aXRlIiBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+Jm5ic3A7LSBXZSBjcmVhdGVkIGFuIGludGVy b3BlcmFiaWxpdHkgdGVzdCBzdWl0ZSBbMF0uICZuYnNwO1RoaXMgdGVzdCBzdWl0ZTwvZGl2Pg0K PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7aGFzIGJlZW4g c3VjY2Vzc2Z1bCBpbiBpZGVudGlmeWluZyBwcm9ibGVtcyBpbiBtYW55IE9wZW5QR1A8YnIgY2xh c3M9IiI+DQombmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDtpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMuICZuYnNwO1dlIHJlcG9y dGVkIHRoZSBwcm9ibGVtcyB0aGF0IHdlIGZvdW5kIGluIHRoZTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCiZuYnNw OyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwO2RpZmZlcmVudCBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMsIGFuZCB0aGUgcmVzcG9uc2Ug d2FzIGFsbW9zdCB1bml2ZXJzYWxseTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCiZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwO3Bv c2l0aXZlLiAmbmJzcDtUaGUgZXhjZXB0aW9uIHdhcyB0aGUgR251UEcgcHJvamVjdCwgd2hlcmUg V2VybmVyPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7b3V0cmlnaHQgZGlzbWlzc2Vk IGFueSBmaW5kaW5ncyAoWzFdLCBbMl0pLiAmbmJzcDtOb3csIFdlcm5lciBpcyBmcmVlPGJyIGNs YXNzPSIiPg0KJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7dG8gZGlzbWlzcyBjb250cmlidXRpb25zIGluIGhp cyBwZXJzb25hbCBwcm9qZWN0LCBidXQgdGhpcyBhbG9uZTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCiZuYnNwOyZu YnNwOyZuYnNwO3Nob3VsZCByYWlzZSBzb21lIHJlZCBmbGFncy48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIg Y2xhc3M9IiI+DQombmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDswOiA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3Rlc3RzLnNl cXVvaWEtcGdwLm9yZy8iIGNsYXNzPSIiPmh0dHBzOi8vdGVzdHMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3JnLzwv YT48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQombmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsxOiA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL2Rl di5nbnVwZy5vcmcvVDQ3MjUiIGNsYXNzPSIiPmh0dHBzOi8vZGV2LmdudXBnLm9yZy9UNDcyNTwv YT48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQombmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsyOiA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL2Rl di5nbnVwZy5vcmcvVDQ3MjciIGNsYXNzPSIiPmh0dHBzOi8vZGV2LmdudXBnLm9yZy9UNDcyNzwv YT48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpIb3dldmVyLCBhcyBlZGl0b3Igb2YgdGhl IFJGQywgaGUgY2Fubm90IHRyZWF0IGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9ycyB0byBPcGVuUEdQPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIi Pg0KYXMgaGUgdHJlYXRzIHBvdGVudGlhbCBjb250cmlidXRvcnMgdG8gR251UEcsIGUuZy4sIGNs b3NpbmcgYnVnPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KcmVwb3J0cyB3aXRoIHRoZSByZWFzb24gJnF1b3Q7c3Bp dGUmcXVvdDsgWzNdLiAmbmJzcDtUaGUgcmVjZW50IGFkZGl0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSAmcXVvdDtrZXk8 YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpibG9jayZxdW90OyBzdWJwYWNrZXQgdG8gUkZDNDg4MGJpcyB3aGljaCBo ZSBjb21taXR0ZWQgb24gdGhlIHNhbWUgZGF5IGFzPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KdGhlIGltcGxlbWVu dGF0aW9uIGluIEdudVBHIHN1Z2dlc3RzIHRoYXQgV2VybmVyIHRoaW5rcyB0aGF0IGhlIGhhczxi ciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCnRoZSBhdXRob3JpdHkgdG8gY2hhbmdlIHRoZSBzdGFuZGFyZCBsaWtlIGhl IGNoYW5nZXMgR251UEcuICZuYnNwO0NoYW5naW5nPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJk IHNob3VsZCBiZSBhIGdyb3VwIGVmZm9ydCwgd2hpY2ggd2UgdHJpZWQgdG8gZW5nYWdlIGluLDxi ciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCmJ1dCB3ZXJlIGJsb2NrZWQgYnkgV2VybmVyLjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxi ciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCiZuYnNwOzM6IDxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vZGV2LmdudXBnLm9yZy9UNDkw NCIgY2xhc3M9IiI+aHR0cHM6Ly9kZXYuZ251cGcub3JnL1Q0OTA0PC9hPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4N CjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQouLi48YnIgY2xh c3M9IiI+DQo8YmxvY2txdW90ZSB0eXBlPSJjaXRlIiBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IiI+ DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSIiPjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCkZvciB0aGUgU2VxdW9pYS1QR1AgdGVhbSw8 YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpKdXN0dXM8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCm9wZW5wZ3AgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOm9wZW5wZ3BAaWV0Zi5vcmciIGNsYXNz PSIiPm9wZW5wZ3BAaWV0Zi5vcmc8L2E+PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9vcGVucGdwIiBjbGFzcz0iIj5odHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29wZW5wZ3A8L2E+PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPC9k aXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPC9kaXY+ DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxiciBjbGFz cz0iIj4NCm9wZW5wZ3AgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRv Om9wZW5wZ3BAaWV0Zi5vcmciIGNsYXNzPSIiPm9wZW5wZ3BAaWV0Zi5vcmc8L2E+PGJyIGNsYXNz PSIiPg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9vcGVucGdwPGJyIGNs YXNzPSIiPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwv ZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_81F75783122545E09B0FB902629F822Cribosecom_-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 05:35:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA833A085F for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 05:35:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gnupg.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EW30RvgRm9g0 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 05:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com (kerckhoffs.g10code.com [IPv6:2001:aa8:fff1:100::22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A5983A085C for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 05:35:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnupg.org; s=20181017; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=TA4xy7qX6lwe+r5npNM9DJkKpZY+MzfuSUKN5mTbrS4=; b=F8cijdeHdMOODAmBddKhviiul5 mplMvoHooJ2dgxNLepzZx6iK+vBdhSvCaMKO5oEJvBpXBXAaDaHYl6UIMQDGY2ioJrIIRaV6C53Tj o+72v5jiP7LZDpzj6IGq6OzGVKsVW/N7ZTEqtggp2fGF2WjLJ7HX76aq8nfEQA+uOJa4=; Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.89 #1 (Debian)) id 1jT2ya-0007nD-LU for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:35:08 +0200 Received: from wk by wheatstone.g10code.de with local (Exim 4.92 #5 (Debian)) id 1jT2wl-0006uu-GM for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:33:15 +0200 From: Werner Koch To: openpgp@ietf.org References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> <877dy1ql46.fsf@europa.jade-hamburg.de> Organisation: GnuPG e.V. X-message-flag: Mails containing HTML will not be read! Please send only plain text. Mail-Followup-To: openpgp@ietf.org Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:33:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: <877dy1ql46.fsf@europa.jade-hamburg.de> (Justus Winter's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:27:37 +0200") Message-ID: <87r1w92jnk.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=COSCO_BZ_Plane_Saudi_Arabia_Disaster_medical_assistance_team_Artisti"; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:35:20 -0000 --=COSCO_BZ_Plane_Saudi_Arabia_Disaster_medical_assistance_team_Artisti Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:27, Justus Winter said: > - At the general meeting of the GnuPG e.V. in 2018 (Brussels, > 2018-02-02) we asked if and how we or the Verein can help the > standardization effort. Werner declined any help, dismissing the Right, the minutes say nothing about this [1]. However, I remember very well and just checked with another participant that after the official meeting you and Neal asked the _GnuPG_ Verein for financial support for Sequoia development; which was obviously rejected. Given the continued personal attacks I will just once list a few facts as background for other readers: =2D Neal, Kai and Justus are founding members of the Verein. Further they all were employed by my company to work on GnuPG. =2D I have asked them several times to work on assigned tasks including pushing forward 4880bis; which they mostly ignored. =2D One of them started to talk with the pEp Foundation, a competitor, about cooperation falsely pretending to officially speak for my company. =2D After I rejected the plan to completely rewrite GnuPG in Rust and asked for weekly work reports, they moved on to the pEp Foundation. There they wrote there own implementation based on the experience they collected in the years working at my company. =2D I am also quite disappointed to see folks, whom I once considered friends, to behave in public like they do now. Salam-Shalom, Werner [1] https://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=3Dgnupg-verein.git;a=3Dblob;= f=3Doffice/meetings/gm-2018-02_minutes.pdf =2D-=20 Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz. --=COSCO_BZ_Plane_Saudi_Arabia_Disaster_medical_assistance_team_Artisti Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQTX/8BjtAoilLlm20f/gK6dHew1jQUCXqbRAgAKCRD/gK6dHew1 jaIGAQCPukHOpRfG3vC85ihAwbqN1yscGoe5em1G7ZwG/i6GiQD/SZL9Es/Ujdph OmD6GNk5OSVSCE19DBAgu1S27zs2nQY= =F9Xa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=COSCO_BZ_Plane_Saudi_Arabia_Disaster_medical_assistance_team_Artisti-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 06:17:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E36E3A0A24 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 06:17:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.811 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.811 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5xwp-1Xa_y02 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 06:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shards.monkeyblade.net (shards.monkeyblade.net [IPv6:2620:137:e000::1:9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B3823A0A1D for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 06:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2600:8806:400:3c1:d8ce:b0a4:755b:4732] (unknown [IPv6:2600:8806:400:3c1:d8ce:b0a4:755b:4732]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: rjh-sixdemonbag) by shards.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 219DF15D294C9 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 06:17:17 -0700 (PDT) To: openpgp@ietf.org References: <3J6ZOTPGPXG6Y.2JRNW7TO2C5HZ@my.amazin.horse> <877dy1ql46.fsf@europa.jade-hamburg.de> <87r1w92jnk.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> From: "Robert J. Hansen" Autocrypt: addr=rjh@sixdemonbag.org; keydata= mQGNBFWoCMsBDACrtfZ7PROLDAnIVQQOyFx6JuzT0qCc6K5rMvVbrzUvOb1jJpuzR+RkOr/6 rCO3swMPNkgBYe/yr4kFymtq+/Q/o0e3BabRdIoi12FYqCV+yxq6hMtyM9hsLa3Yf4Dnl/AN rz+iJWgE360PoIPXNvuaOJomR5Rj3eVEqKqKFA9TThCxy19JT10jLwbchKvgbrZUWIyyOvDf Q2zVM5SEwRVxf7WJb8HH3+uKrSwkVChawR9KLVeC9RK+H1/nxzPw+72plAx/5HdqV8zxwj0A dxlTlSRlz4wPS5QU2KzkLNA9c31WUMWqEL05EuOKQp0Gy3iMVh9SnRgFtFjLiW3Dd3HCPZbr 5HQ9KPwjWHgV9WfjHPkIUa1Sujcb94sl3sxSKpnAq1L6kBpoZP9AF/tgQ9QBgFtd7BkCCor4 8LuFT/2B3NpZyDVVaqvicoL+7MsvVppzy0KEZlheIQRPhjCTIeR7a+peZToPB5dB4MPoq9W6 TD2rNqPUqlZ2rWISFcHI+5MAEQEAAbQmUm9iZXJ0IEouIEhhbnNlbiA8cmpoQHNpeGRlbW9u YmFnLm9yZz6JAcEEEwEIACsCGwMMCwoNCQwICwcEAwECBhUKCQgLAwQWAwECAh4BAheABQJX d/bkAhkBAAoJEB3L3AG0RCfHNGMMAKL8RiNGgzSnJPPA57knVpxcZbQiqqUOL6s6HiN5rquH jb4YpCR0Z/t6bacuCalUIgteUlgkiWfY1rlDIMEwpY3qXbdg7ARcFYjuupi24K9WE2q85EHR yvpjCEKVmeSxASy1NbCLN3v29yqy2o5KXbDpmlffbICcueB7hAgEDzA4tef/aH2iaJkp4J5l wZAkS0kud556M6eXeekQWUk6oSa0fov49srqvJ/KOazlgJ7MhZ7STnpka0JUnrBMEHmCrfBs gYMB1ZG+ul/rMw6/VePHP1EnUAc9mXi2hzzC5p1/uhg7qL3B1KaPswkEN8e+CIjuQzeQDWPZ 601k9jYNhhrspeQB8SPRFWQe6J5yI+nlAfdSFxo+DcYP33GBPv7y3NHRaVoYptvRWWfWnMXl W9AbUqF5uTgBQ87R8i3yv4RNMfSXAL1PfsfQMHwwNfKguXaRU66tTipejBrDnUf3S995bizA 3vxfV4+IOkrIA6pTlFESeHRGqBt3r/I33ga5TrgzBFjkW0cWCSsGAQQB2kcPAQEHQMun3HOL 42SWjeBQ2OHY8BC+ok5nwOFKZ1BVX4K7HDTriQH/BBgBAgAJBQJY5FtHAhsCAGoJEB3L3AG0 RCfHXyAEGRYIAAYFAljkW0cACgkQqDyulNPcOHMpmQD6A0qBpOR8ce6Is8b01pQGYFXwHp0Q mQ5STa4APj7EFLoBAJTN4n6/4RFfB24R4JGwVFpvGjJs9x0t/m0O2maPz5gNaVoMAKIRlMP8 RuIbgNc6l1XUTETfBngV7ki6YWa9dG/TLWnz80f00sswvUrF1L6PXLCj1OWPOZdPUZwAF6YD lVC3vyGk1xq9cxnjvLuzlRxC7KUvpoyPWAPMcZF6p1qy08Ok4z6oREBQoTedmEhX33vNlQaw 2SgRgjFLfq9HuTDA88+xD8v6nt90cV959swP88CsBO68DvA82o+I3OJtAfbCg8Q4iQKDng/X HNV55xbM/2oSozIr3VJFqZ8oWwGV7GSdB4iO4KaPUOIG7qB+0rJGWsaMzdPHXnCj2J91TGX8 UHfG3K8Ihz3xCIQTAXgySxeTCaUNc5n44A8y7L+EZKUFH72NNSMXZ/YswQcv9lT7QuyshH23 xSrksHaZwKQqoRlxi+W3DyL74GCEPLubXdJoPoWhBchBm7Dh5AYOeS9es+YCvQ5RuEoBIImO bKKAlaP49phzrSvLuYIj4cdP99UuNH5cpfXcpgk5oRgpwhvN9zhR3FqZ6KtzQYkbAlDBeGmH ULg4BFjkXIESCisGAQQBl1UBBQEBB0BIhGgjC3xrE1LPHQJNkY0NRTtcsleYtRAMpcmTTOy9 TwMBCAeJAZ8EGAECAAkFAljkXIECGwwACgkQHcvcAbREJ8ehjQv/dZiZqtoNzwd+1QiRMSui iYM83j58wyz/63bE4p4ORJB2WPSkF27DlX9HoxLDvePlqRyxkJytGC8mQ4/84nAftno0O/nT sWnLG9fpPPrYudJZ6w+MdDSZpeEecWXuDZObUj4peVbgg1bMVEXoH/8Kmxki/UqUcaBXokt8 Xs9NeDp7ZPLCYyAe2wxSRxkHqLHcho3aa+xzVe3adGvZc3f5k1vl09cc4klojT04g7169cVJ mab25vRJJEqEvcz2kNk3Y7F6u6odYot1mUKa54v6vDmhB0+fUTO2L19r9nTcgKr6iUwUZTIU x8UJMeX8w2Lap3vif0BPqUka0FVMD+D9SUBX+3DmmqA4LSMrRJ/tDzffRPVuIcVEy+LwVOW5 Yq2vnqBv3m1qcJ51BfOiZybE1ifrV7ekq7xrzQgZyUAiH/eyAt2FuwyuO+b8fHL3/MaARWni 95iey2CmkJuaB8wrkjxF1G12bWWZXXy0p2D8kM6uE23wawNnyzwi0XAwTPDl Message-ID: <4fc6e9cd-f44d-8b83-c3bb-f5d20b40ee2a@sixdemonbag.org> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:17:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87r1w92jnk.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.12 (shards.monkeyblade.net [149.20.54.216]); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 06:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Requesting the editor to step down X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:17:26 -0000 > - I am also quite disappointed to see folks, whom I once considered > friends, to behave in public like they do now. I have seen this sort of passive-aggressive behavior flare up with annoying regularity on this mailing list and elsewhere in the community (and sometimes it's been aimed at me, for reasons I genuinely do not understand). I would respectfully suggest that everyone in the community take a deep breath and think long and hard before hitting "send", and let's please leave any personal grudges at the door. We're better than this, all of us. From nobody Tue Apr 28 14:40:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AB323A096B for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:40:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kuix.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z0FV5F-VvvO3 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cloud.kuix.de (cloud.kuix.de [93.90.207.85]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A95FB3A0972 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.137.0.17] (ip-95-223-75-131.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de [95.223.75.131]) by cloud.kuix.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED67418734D for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:40:01 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=kuix.de; s=2018; t=1588110002; bh=OOYvlHFlNcMFGrwaYi7SAgSJPubdg7OcCZctyxhwFos=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=azRQD2oPa6i4Ge0EFBrx+YkY3ml4U8cqVwcNNSFu9jdvYvgHVDT9R1DL28YFIiSIV 7Y6gBiNbBXwF11U/bEFp0QU5GMp8O4po88IhpojThFRLI6rVAHhBWr0hCiGRJ4RXMa dSmgTOgdLMRD3Fr77cjpRccT4dZs0QFCRLBJPa5Y1CSvsr1JQhw7S6F8MzIKhWYNgn HznDleh827lgcI+0m8rg1rM0F/n2FjXJT2GaM4VA8PRo04nnXHVMJACX9Cw6X+MmEp h2Zin13N+2YWlo7GL9BSh3w5gW6tgh90Yrnm8tKrzOyZPGVwbIkdNgv/RtC8QwDm/Y 61GIgNWOGlA/w== To: openpgp@ietf.org From: Kai Engert Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:40:00 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:77.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/77.0 Thunderbird/77.0a1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [openpgp] Resolving open issues X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:40:08 -0000 Hello, I'd like to make a suggestion for resolving the open issues that have been recently mentioned. It seems one of the complaints was a lack of communication. Maybe the whole conflict is simply based on misunderstandings, for example, about who should be the first person to communiate. And even if it might be apparent based on rules (from your own personal point of view), remember that nobody is perfect, we're all humans, we might disagree, sometimes we make a mistake, or we might be too busy and wish that we'd get more help. It has been said that certain issues haven't been discussed on this list. Well, if you notice them, what stops you from asking on the list? It might be worth to try to process the backlog of pending issue by discussing them. For each issue that you consider unresolved, start a new thread on this mailing list. Provide a short summary of the unresolved issue, potentially provide your own suggestion for how to resolve the issue. Then wait for others to comment on the issue. After an appropriate number of comments have been made, someone volunteers to summarize and proposes an action. Maybe my suggestion seems native. But please consider the possibility that people had different expectations than you, and more communication could help to match your expectations with actions. If necessary, a neutral person could try to start a new thread for each of the issues that had been mentioned, but IMHO, it's best if the person who sees a need for action writes the message. Regards, Kai From nobody Tue Apr 28 14:42:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A093A0979 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:42:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kuix.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eT_WZo5Ifz5w for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cloud.kuix.de (cloud.kuix.de [IPv6:2001:8d8:1801:86::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80FF13A0977 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.137.0.17] (ip-95-223-75-131.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de [95.223.75.131]) by cloud.kuix.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28F8118734B for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:42:53 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=kuix.de; s=2018; t=1588110173; bh=9goZAC49RMTJGM78QAS2TaYjgT5dzjmNN6JkJiLLZBY=; h=Subject:From:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=JLJfH6Y/aouabiQt5CrEuN7Fe831Go7OmZzxYK+VbqZ+xlQdMFmk+aTcV0Z9CmWDJ bsytoLcpNDdPg0CQQlZg3yN3cW/dOkZuZVLXv1U0RihN4R3ZasQ1g3AeFQCSUtUjSw 2sXVRVqtp1xqpWG6R/VJ1qhh/xXkG3EY7RIV5ETtsEYcVjZdsprrYR3SCcyWbqgPfJ q675h9Zkq0mMMY38QYddhPYP9fpAL+98Q1nVhWPslhby+2PXniuBorjQD4EcshJm/+ 0Ubf/7uXXEyq6JHvHF+udLenkLgchyZukqkaLk/Alz297hNamC7uTgXyWyu1lH+F2r pU9elb0LkIqZA== From: Kai Engert To: openpgp@ietf.org References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:42:51 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:77.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/77.0 Thunderbird/77.0a1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Resolving open issues X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:42:57 -0000 On 28.04.20 23:40, Kai Engert wrote: > Maybe my suggestion seems native. s/native/naive/