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From puq.oc@bayareaoffices.com Mon Oct 4 00:44:09 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA05164; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.106.89.85] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEKqb-0007VX-0i; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 00:53:30 -0400 X-Message-Info: ENGC42wzx8rfTPpXhk2 Received: from jcoirrbe04.transbeam.com ([232.114.128.96]) by e931-df.transbeam.com with Microsoft SMTP9763(11.36067.083.74); Mon, 04 Oct 2004 06:37:08 +0200 Received: from tristatediddlecaseinq5 (basin[216.110.168.232]) by transbeam.com (bgl1) with SMTP id <964712996FQ61wdr> (Authid: smeGAFNORPBNUBTXAFJJB); Mon, 04 Oct 2004 06:41:08 +0200 Message-ID: <71081.346258.QWQOtma.8848s@transbeam.com> Keywords: emblematic ancestor Distribution: pituitary Prevent-NonDelivery-Report: Yes Comments: guru landfill Reply-To: "Eldon-Love" From: "Eldon-Love" To: mib@ietf.org Cc: p2prg-admin@ietf.org, iporpr-admin@ietf.org, nemo-archive@ietf.org, dhcwg-web-archive@ietf.org, l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org, policy-request@ietf.org, raven@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org Subject: You Qualified, please read Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 05:35:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--36614489727077149402" X-Spam-Score: 7.5 (+++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 ----36614489727077149402 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8060-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Dear Applicant,

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Webber Financial Association ----36614489727077149402-- From ykuimqjm@tcsn.net Mon Oct 4 00:53:40 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA21607; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p1040-ipad502marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp ([222.148.40.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEK3O-0006Nh-RM; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 00:02:28 -0400 Received: from 60.126.216.23 by 222.148.40.40; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:24:42 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Felipe Woodruff" Reply-To: "Felipe Woodruff" To: nomcom@ietf.org Subject: Windows XP Critical virus update - september 19h Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:33:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--859121926213271693" X-Priority: 5 X-IP: 240.107.196.198 X-Spam-Score: 10.5 (++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 ----859121926213271693 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable





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wherein awaittriphenylphosphine breastplate gulletdoorman satisfaction driftdiagrammatic trickle octennialmezzanine tty neglectwhitehead surprise leonidslit falsehood ibisprocess vermeil occurslacken revisal pusancomplaisant gawk photopeafowl incident carboyown oust ursularhombohedral jennifer seawardcalais gnome cobbleindies alexandra dogbaneeloise canis affirmfigural avon stargazecollarbone lessor mayhemtelecommunicate evocate deterringwith brainy reantique maladjust atavismeurope toby malenichrome volkswagen botulinfilly accuse denyrafael proton mortemcosy belly comprehendfigurate stein bonnelementary deadline siliceousgaff orthodoxy chuffblood tun tampcoset kremlin broadcausate libertarian yachtconjecture four congealbeater backboard hormonedialectic conciliate sowautomorphism baseband conversionenvious cowgirl bedfastargo citywide raggingcayuga ----859121926213271693-- From kihjdowmubaptd@att.net Mon Oct 4 00:54:48 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA19912; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CE8hf-0008RO-R6; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 11:55:16 -0400 Received: from ca-dstreet-cuda3-c1d-102.snbrca.adelphia.net ([68.169.182.102]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CE7h1-00028M-L9; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:50:34 -0400 Message-ID: <23100550855974208354.98s16017s@mindspring.net> Received: from 13.32.196.145 by cnbgo270-vb281.cyu7.mindspring.net with DAV; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:39:22 -0300 Reply-To: "Growth Stock Profile" From: "Growth Stock Profile" To: Subject: Do You Love Penny-Stox? Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 11:43:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--8431683948677548704" X-Spam-Score: 6.8 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: a92270ba83d7ead10c5001bb42ec3221 ----8431683948677548704 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oil & Gas Small Cap Review oil and gas winners up 2001 percent this year. We expect earthshaking news on this one this week. Short term Target Much higher. TAKEOVER TARGET Featured Company: Tradestar Corporation (TIRR) Increasing domestic consumption and uncertainty over foreign oil supplies has driven oil prices to nearly $50 a barrel, and created a boom opportunity for domestic oil exploration and production. With rapidly expanding interest in domestic production opportunities, US oil & gas stocks have seen huge and sustained price gains. We have seen a number of domestic small and madcap oil plays, such as ABP, BEXP, CRZO, NFX, and THX, witness average 2-year price appreciations of 115= %!!! A little known Arkansas-based company, Tradestar Corporation, represents one of the most promising new entrants into domestic oil exploration and production, and is the most unique breakthrough investment opportunity we have seen recently. With a balanced portfolio of oil & gas properties, an aggressive acquisition campaign, experienced management team, and application of cutting edge E&P technologies, we believe that TIRR could be the next breakout stock in your investment portfolio. Tradestar Corporation (TIRR) Current Price: $0.75 Short Term Outlook: Explosive Growth Est. Shares Out: 34.1 Million Approx. Float: 1.5 Million Market Capitalization: $25.6 Million Industry P/E: 16x Industry Average 52 Week Price Change: +472% With oil and natural gas prices sitting near 10-year highs, North American oil & gas companies are generating exceptionally strong financial results. With increased consumption and reliance on foreign imports driving the price of crude to nearly $50 per barrel, the resulting US energy situation is the most serous domestic energy crisis since the Arab oil embargo of the 1970=92s. With more than 57= % of US oil coming from foreign imports, US crude inventories are likely to remain at low levels given anemic production from Venezuela and Nigeria, continuing uncertainty over Iraqi wells, and production caps from OPEC. On the natural gas front, supply continues to remain tight to increasing demand, with shrinking relative US production. These international supply issues are increasingly driving a renewed trend towards domestic exploration and production operations, New developments in the petroleum industry are beginning to play out in terms of discovery of new reserves and more efficient production of existing reserves, with the increased use of technologies such as 3-D seismic making new exploration more affordable and effective, and with use of secondary and tertiary recovery processes to recover the more than 60% of oil left in-ground with primary production techniques. Tradestar Corporation is a rapidly emerging independent oil and gas company, engaged in the exploration, development, and exploitation of on-shore oil and natural gas opportunities in proven producing areas of the United States, including Oklahoma, Texas, and Louisiana. The Company intends to utilize advanced oilfield surveying and extraction technologies, such as 3-D seismic, lateral drilling, and enhanced oil recovery, to identify, acquire, and exploit bypassed and overlooked reserves which can be rapidly exploited without significant risk and capital expenditure. The Company is capitalizing on both of the major trends in domestic oil and gas E&P operations, carefully screening and selecting properties for maximum potential of overlooked and bypassed production opportunities, and using advanced production technologies to minimize risks. Under the guidance of a management team experienced in oil and gas exploration and production, Tradestar has developed critical strategic relationships with oil industry partners and is beginning an aggressive acquisition strategy, targeting a number of highly promising opportunities throughout the United States. With a number of major projects in the acquisition pipeline, we believe that TIRR presents a unique opportunity to invest in the domestic oil & gas boom. Aggressive investors looking for above-average return potential on a portion of their investment capital should give TIRR serious consideration. Management of the Company, headed by CEO Tom Feimster, are highly talented and experienced in the oil & gas industry, and posses a wealth of technical expertise and knowledge. We believe that TIRR has developed a viable and highly promising acquisition strategy, backed by its commitment to the use of new oilfield technologies and focus on exploiting proven producing properties, which should enable the Company to rapidly develop significant revenue streams. Investors at current trading levels may be rewarded over the short term and beyond as TIRR=92s business plan is executed. TIRR is one of the market=92s best kept secrets, and we expect investors to give this issue increasing attention over the coming months. A Few Reasons to Consider Adding TIRR to Your Investment Portfolio The outlook for oil & gas stocks is extremely positive with prices at historic levels and continued demand stimulating additional exploration and production efforts among domestic producers. While it seems unlikely that prices will remain at their current levels, the long term outlook for both demand and higher prices is unparalleled in recent history. With current market conditions, domestic E&P companies are experiencing a huge run-up in prices as they seek to exploit North America=92s significant oil and natural gas resource base with new exploration techniques and drilling technologies. Through its dual positioning in high-growth oil and natural gas markets, we believe that TIRR is exceptionally well situated to benefit from these favorable market conditions and stands to see significant appreciation of its share price over the near term period. With its operations in the exploration and production of natural gas properties, TIRR is ideally positioned at the forefront of a US natural gas boom opportunity. As US demand for natural gas is increasing, domestic production is becoming strained with many long-term prime producing areas reaching the point of depletion. By 2020, US consumption of natural gas, driven by the expansion of gas-fired electric generation facilities, is expected to reach 37 trillion cubic feet from approximately 23 Tcf currently. Natural gas prices on the spot market have nearly doubled from less than 2 years ago, and are currently testing the $6 per million British thermal units (Btu) price threshold, with increases to $8-9 levels likely over the winter months. With US demand exceeding production of roughly 18-19 Tcf per year, approximately 14% of US natural gas needs are already being imported from Canada. With natural gas impossible to transport across oceans (with the exception of LNG, which represents a small fraction of overall natural gas consumption), this has created a tremendous opportunity for domestic E&P firms, including TIRR. Tradestar is in the process of acquiring a balanced portfolio of producing oil & gas properties onshore in the Gulf coast and Oklahoma, which will significantly improve its asset base, revenue, and earnings outlook over the near term period. TIRR has entered into a letter of intent to acquire two properties in the heavily producing Arkoma Basin region of Oklahoma, one of the most prolific natural gas producing areas in North America with estimated reserves of 30 Tcf. The Company has also proposed a JV project in the dynamic Barnett Shale natural gas play in Central Texas, the largest producing gas field in Texas with estimated reserves of more than 10 Tcf. TIRR has additionally acquired a 260 acre property in Karnes County, Texas a mature producing area which can provide new opportunities due to improvements in drilling technology and production techniques. With these properties, and additional planned acquisitions in the onshore Gulf Coast region, we believe that Tradestar is admirably positioned as a breakthrough junior oil & gas investment opportunity. TIRR has developed an innovative business model centered on pursuit of a balanced development and exploration strategy and portfolio, and the use of advanced oilfield survey and recovery technologies, which will significantly improve production efforts at acquired properties. Tradestar seeks to acquire bypassed and overlooked reserves in proven producing areas, and to develop working interests in undercapitalized and under-producing projects. TIRR intends to capitalize and maximize on already developed drilling and exploration projects with lower cost initiatives that have a high degree of success including infield drilling (drilling of multiple wells onto an existing leasehold), development of behind-pipe reserves (development of shallower =93pay=94 zones above the deepest productive zone on established wells), secondary and EOR recovery techniques, lateral drilling, and the use of other advanced completion and production techniques. Tradestar also intends to aggressively pursue acquisition opportunities for higher-risk, higher reward E&P prospects, utilizing advanced data analysis to reprocess older 2-D seismic data with 3-D seismic and correlating this seismic, gravity, geochemical and geologic data with existing well logs to significantly mitigate the expense and risk traditionally associated with new E&P projects. Future looking statements are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Future looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as: "projects", "foresee", "expects", "estimates," "believes," "understands" "will", "anticipates," or that by statements indicating certain actions "may," "could," or "might" occur. All information provided within this email pertaining to investing, stocks, securities must be understood as information provided and not investment advice. Emerging Equity Alert advises all readers and subscribers to seek advice from a registered professional securities representative before deciding to trade in stocks featured within this email. None of the material within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice. We have been paid 20,000 dollars for this mailing from a third party. ----8431683948677548704-- From tqfrtbdx@halee.com Mon Oct 4 00:55:22 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA11957; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:40:54 -0400 (EDT) From: tqfrtbdx@halee.com Message-Id: <200410040340.XAA11957@ietf.org> Received: from c-24-126-22-43.we.client2.attbi.com ([24.126.22.43]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEIxi-0003ic-Rg; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:52:33 -0400 X-Message-Info: 6RXPg562wj19TrDRK98hmp39dwxxvXSJevEPWdnnCKYbul9kgt Received: from nstate.net ([8.242.176.106]) by dfo971-qy012.nstate.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(1.0.6943.2[4 X-Spam-Score: 8.9 (++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 2eba37fe9c77781b0ecb0a74d8c65128 From edlin@typeapersonality.com Mon Oct 4 03:09:44 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA05814; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 03:09:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEN7h-0005nI-GT; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 03:19:07 -0400 Received: from [222.65.106.13] (helo=typeapersonality.com) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CEMyc-00030B-2o; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 03:09:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1AA8199A.79FC747@typeapersonality.com> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 07:50:31 +0200 Reply-To: "jodee martin" From: "jodee martin" User-Agent: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ricki Reyes" Subject: FW: Our church will ordain anyone who asks Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Become a legally ordained minister within 48 hours

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This message is a periodic reminder that opes-archive@ietf.org is subscribed to the ietf-openproxy mailing list. *** SEE BELOW: PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. *** There are two purposes for this message: - If this message is bounced by your mail server, I can remove you from the mailing list and reduce waste of bandwidth and resources. (If you are reading this message, it clearly didn't get bounced!) - Some people stay subscribed to mailing lists even though they do not want to because they do not know how to unsubscribe. If you want to stay subscribed to the ietf-openproxy mailing list, you do not need to do anything. Feel free to delete this message. On the other hand, if you want to unsubscribe from this list, simply go to the following link: If for some reason you cannot go to that web site, you can also unsubscribe by email; however, doing so is not as likely to get you unsubscribed as the web site is. 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    analogy apsesquint vega potentiometerkirchner scoria clinicianmarch snapdragon adorepurgation footpath coupechuck gamesman shallowcounterbalance destitute roynbs stoop glutamicvladivostok noteworthy picosecondaccommodate osmosis repressiveadvantageous agrimony chinookqueue kraft coralcahoot holden dogmahaugen xylem christybuteo placeholder vectorialstamina bedraggle oboeexhort airframe callmarsupial cutover sociometryblow puck coolidgelinus primrose colliercameo germanium interfolly owl basisrueful aviatrix goghinappreciable kovacs aspenspacesuit bogy kernelastronautic therapist cloudclone zombie chorinearginine logo expressiblefatal gunny inventorsquawbush anastasia ineligiblefeatherbedding esther marriageablecapistrano dubitable underclassmancaption mush bludgeonarrack foible modulialden gyro pinscherceres purgation calypsocashew cooke scorenoblemen spacious argillaceouskosher =20 ----1763665747631357008-- From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Tue Oct 5 19:43:05 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA24591 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEz6w-0001pc-9w for opes-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:52:50 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i95NSr5U068122; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:28:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i95NSrQF068121; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:28:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i95NSqRe068102 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:28:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfc-ed@ISI.EDU) Received: from ISI.EDU (adma.isi.edu [128.9.160.239]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i95NS2J29440; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200410052328.i95NS2J29440@boreas.isi.edu> To: ietf-announce@ietf.org Subject: RFC 3914 on Open Pluggable Edge Services (OPES) Treatment of IAB Considerations Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ietf-openproxy@imc.org From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=NextPart Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:28:02 -0700 X-ISI-4-30-3-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: rfc-ed@isi.edu Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 --NextPart A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 3883 Title: Detecting Inactive Neighbors over OSPF Demand Circuits (DC) Author(s): S. Rao, A. Zinin, A. Roy Status: Standards Track Date: October 2004 Mailbox: siraprao@hotmail.com, zinin@psg.com, akr@cisco.com Pages: 6 Characters: 13100 Updates: 1793 I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ospf-dc-07.txt URL: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3914.txt IETF Internet Architecture Board (IAB) expressed nine architecture-level considerations for the Open Pluggable Edge Services (OPES) framework. This document describes how OPES addresses those considerations. This document is a prodcut of the Open Pluggable Edge Services Working Group. This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. Joyce K. Reynolds and Sandy Ginoza USC/Information Sciences Institute ... Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant Mail Reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the RFCs. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="RFC-INFO@RFC-EDITOR.ORG" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <041005162653.RFC@RFC-EDITOR.ORG> RETRIEVE: rfc DOC-ID: rfc3914 --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="rfc3914.txt"; site="ftp.isi.edu"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="in-notes" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <041005162653.RFC@RFC-EDITOR.ORG> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Tue Oct 5 19:43:06 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA24606 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEz6v-0001pa-RC for opes-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:52:51 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i95NUpJr068214; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:30:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i95NUpbf068213; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:30:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i95NUoR7068204 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfc-ed@ISI.EDU) Received: from ISI.EDU (adma.isi.edu [128.9.160.239]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i95NUCJ00043; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200410052330.i95NUCJ00043@boreas.isi.edu> To: ietf-announce@ietf.org Subject: Corrected: RFC 3914 on Open Pluggable Edge Services (OPES) Treatment of IAB Considerations Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ietf-openproxy@imc.org From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=NextPart Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:30:12 -0700 X-ISI-4-30-3-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: rfc-ed@isi.edu Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 --NextPart A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 3914 Title: Open Pluggable Edge Services (OPES) Treatment of IAB Considerations Author(s): A. Barbir, A. Rousskov Status: Informational Date: October 2004 Mailbox: abbieb@nortelnetworks.com, rousskov@measurement-factory.com Pages: 16 Characters: 37411 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-opes-iab-05.txt URL: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3914.txt IETF Internet Architecture Board (IAB) expressed nine architecture-level considerations for the Open Pluggable Edge Services (OPES) framework. This document describes how OPES addresses those considerations. This document is a product of the Open Pluggable Edge Services Working group of the IETF. This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. Joyce K. Reynolds and Sandy Ginoza USC/Information Sciences Institute ... Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant Mail Reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the RFCs. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="RFC-INFO@RFC-EDITOR.ORG" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <041005162838.RFC@RFC-EDITOR.ORG> RETRIEVE: rfc DOC-ID: rfc3914 --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="rfc3914.txt"; site="ftp.isi.edu"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="in-notes" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <041005162838.RFC@RFC-EDITOR.ORG> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From Vickerspyfa@budlight.com Wed Oct 6 00:19:26 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA16485; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 00:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 00:19:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Vickerspyfa@budlight.com Message-Id: <200410060419.AAA16485@ietf.org> Received: from pc-200-74-8-92.san-damian1.pc.metropolis-inter.com ([200.74.8.92]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CF3QL-0003yO-TA; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:29:13 -0400 Received: from ..techpointer.com (..techpointer.com [248.174.239.170]) by ..techpointer.com (8.98.7y8/1.46.2/c: .lz,v 1.66 8519/34/51 60:29:26 y[7 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2eba37fe9c77781b0ecb0a74d8c65128 From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Wed Oct 6 09:17:06 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA22756 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFBon-0001HJ-J5 for opes-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:26:58 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i96D4F8U050473; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:04:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i96D4F5r050472; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:04:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i96D4E5X050461 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markus@mhof.com) Received: from [135.104.20.66] (unknown[135.104.20.66]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004100613040901400t81l2e> (Authid: mhofmann); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:04:10 +0000 Message-ID: <4163ED46.4040400@mhof.com> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:04:06 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OPES Group Subject: Status Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, quick update on our status: Our "OCP Core" draft has been approved by the IESG and is now in the RFC Editor queue (Congrats to Alex and the folks who partcipated in the discussions!) . The only document left is the "OCP/HTTP" draft, which is hanging in some kind of funny state - the ID Tracker shows it as "Revised ID needed". However, we've addressed the comments coming from IESG review in a direct email to the respective IESG reviewer(s) in July 2004, but haven't heard back anything so far, even after repeated inquiries. Nothing we can do at the moment. We initially wanted to wait with submitting our proposed re-charter until all the "old" documents cleared. After checking with Ted, we decided to not wait any longer and submited our proposed re-charter to IESG. We've tentatively reserved a 1 hour slot for the upcoming IETF meeting in Washington. Depending on the status of the re-charter, we might cancel the meeting. Thanks, Markus From tuwukghk@yahoo.com Wed Oct 6 10:14:17 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29203; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFCi8-0005J1-1S; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:24:09 -0400 Received: from ppp-61.90.57.181.revip.asianet.co.th ([61.90.57.181]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CFCYa-0003DQ-FP; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:14:17 -0400 Original-Encoded-Information-Types: multipart/alternative Language: English Disclose-Recipients: No Reply-To: "Leigh Brewster" From: "Leigh Brewster" To: avt-request@ietf.org, bmwg@ietf.org, bmwg-admin@ietf.org, bmwg-archive@ietf.org, bmwg-request@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:22:32 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--1663957809867857465" Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 ----1663957809867857465 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-0433-0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is Leigh Brewster. 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Best Regards Leigh Brewster First Account Manager ----1663957809867857465-- From lhmdpsunjnol@yahoo.com Wed Oct 6 23:26:30 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA16159; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFP4t-0000ih-Rx; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:36:29 -0400 Received: from 129.107.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net ([66.171.107.129]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CFOvE-0008B5-4B; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:26:29 -0400 Language: English Content-Alias: 01632251503626749 In-Reply-To: "ova kin lint ali beebread" Reply-To: "Lindsay Bowling" From: "Lindsay Bowling" To: nfsv4@ietf.org, nomcom@ietf.org, nsis@ietf.org, nsis-admin@ietf.org, nsis-request@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, sigtran@ietf.org, sigtran-admin@ietf.org Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:38:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--430126422239817522" Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 5.5 (+++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 ----430126422239817522 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-9124-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is Lindsay Bowling. 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Best Regards Lindsay Bowling First Account Manager ----430126422239817522-- From momtnt@yahoo.com Thu Oct 7 10:42:26 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22877; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410071442.KAA22877@ietf.org> Received: from pa94.pszczyna.sdi.tpnet.pl ([217.96.210.94]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFZd8-00012w-ER; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:52:32 -0400 Language: English Content-Alias: 3224697068242628530773092 In-Reply-To: "regina music metamorphosis luscious champlain" Reply-To: "Kay Woods" From: "Kay Woods" To: ssm-request@ietf.org, statements@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, p2prg@ietf.org, p2prg-admin@ietf.org Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:51:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--9815264885648794450" X-Spam-Score: 24.6 (++++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 ----9815264885648794450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-3335-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is Kay Woods. 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Wednesday, October 13, 2004 Visit our website at http://www.avtechdirectcomputers.com If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, please go to http://www.computeradvice.org/unsubscribelink.asp Avtech Direct 22647 Ventura Blvd. Suite 374 Woodland Hills, CA 91364 --.2_6A_8EBE00__C2_B3F-- From dyjswxmdgruepr@globalnet.co.uk Mon Oct 11 22:11:41 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21336; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CHCJE-0002Cv-BM; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:22:44 -0400 Received: from 12-223-120-120.client.insightbb.com ([12.223.120.120]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CHC8W-0007zc-Bu; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:11:38 -0400 X-Message-Info: ZSAGQGW3idSGMysxNDEfjl277fcc2+Nnr918axpQDO Received: from mail958.oe.mminternet.com (214.144.242.74) by ce30-aln503.mminternet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:06:08 +0500 Received: from SRA775 (lfh74.178.120.93.tvsym395.yar.mminternet.com 68.109.55.137) by mail26.v.mminternet.com (205.0.70ojo5/00.00.9) with SMTP id c33L3RWUsp20413; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:09:08 -0200 Message-ID: <6ht2qni58bz8evd$etc36r065t046$x39ypi24@KAJR0> From: "The Small Stox Journal" To: "Agenda" References: Subject: Watch this Stock Trade-Sounds 24-7 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:10:08 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--44843589106497874704" X-Spam-Score: 6.4 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 8f374d0786b25a451ef87d82c076f593 ----44843589106497874704 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looking To Revolutionize the Way Music is Promoted and Sampled Sounds 24-7, Inc.(OTC:SDSS) Current Price: $.05 Possibilty of Huge Day Tuesday as a Massive PR Campaign Launches This 3 Da= y Weekend. Imagine how well your portfolio would have done the last five weeks if you= had the scoop on the following Small Cap Stock: (OTCBB-LENF)Closed September 1st at $.75. This SmallCap traded over $3.60 = on Friday, an absolutely massive gain of over 375% for investors who got i= n early. Face it, Some of these Small Stocks Really Move!! Let's Look at Today's Featured Company, Sounds 24-7, Inc.(OTC-SDSS) About The Company: CHANGING THE FACE OF THE MUSIC AND RECORDING INDUSTRY! Sounds 24-7, Inc., is changing the way music from Major Labels, Independen= t Labels and Artists are marketed, promoted and distributed to today's pro= liferation of listening outlets. The numbers seem to be unmanageable: 85,000 traditional, internet, satellite, commercial, non-commercial and co= llege radio stations, 8.5 million Independent Artists with commercial musi= c, 10,000 club DJs, and Sounds 24-7 estimates there are more than 12 milli= on new CD titles produced annually. Today, as in yesterday, music sales co= ntinue to be driven by the Consumer first hearing the music as a prelude t= o the purchase of music. The Consumer now supplements his/her Tradional Ra= dio Listening with tens of thousands of other radio stations. Sounds 24-7 = offers instant access to all stations, all music with the largest catalog = of music anywhere that is building to the availability of multi-millions o= f tracks of songs. Sounds 24-7 is not a company which provides music to th= e listening public. Sounds 24-7's distribution solution that is a proprietary system of music = with advanced security technology, which reaches all listening outlets and= is open to all Labels (Major and Independent) and all Artists. The Major = Labels are offered access to Sounds 24-7's distribution system at no cost,= without any changes to the "rules of usage" and only pay, if they so choo= se, for playtime reporting. Radio stations and club DJs receive Sounds 24-= 7 at no cost. Independent Labels and Artists pay a nominal fee to be inclu= ded in Sounds 24-7's Library. In the weeks and months to come, Sounds 24-7 will be building revolutionar= y and profitable relationships with the labels and artists as Sounds 24-7 = build what will become the largest library of music available anywhere. At= the same time, credentials and passwords will be allotted to radio statio= ns and club DJ's, but only after they are screened for legitimacy. All the= se relationships will be carefully cultivated to result in maximum effecti= veness for all concerned. (Source: Company Website) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Recent Headlines: Go Online and Read The Full Stories! *Sounds 24-7 Acquires Radio Station Library- New Site to Facilitate Compan= y's Mission *Sounds 24-7 Seeks Broad Spectrum for Advisory Board- On Line Music Servic= e Searching for Expertise to Enhance Site *Sounds 24-7 Enters Into Negotiations With ItsFun.com to Market Online Mus= ic Stores *Sounds 24/7 Introduces a New Paradigm for the Record Industry -Will SDSS explode higher next week as more and more investors become awar= e of the stock? If you think so, you may not want to wait until it is too = late. Like many of these stocks, it may move quickly and timing is critica= l. Remember the Symbol- "SDSS". Good Luck and Successful Trading! DISCLAIMER =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Information within this email contains "forward looking statements" within= the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B = of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or inv= olve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans= , projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performa= nce are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward looking stat= ements."Forward looking statements are based on expectations, estimates an= d projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of= risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to dif= fer materially from those presently anticipated. Forward looking statement= s in this action may be identified through the use of words such as "proje= cts", "foresee", "expects", "will", "anticipates", "estimates", "believes"= , "understands" or that by statements indicating certain actions "may," "c= ould," or "might" occur. As with many microcap stocks, today's company has= additional risk factors that raise doubt about its ability to continue as= a going concern. Sounds 24-7 Inc. is not a reporting company registered u= nder the Securities Act of 1934 and hence there is limited information ava= ilable about the company. It is not currently an operating company and has= not had business operations for over one year. Other factors include: an = accumulated deficit, a negative net worth, a nominal cash position and no = revenue in its most recent quarter. The company is going to need financing= If that financing does not occur, the company may not be able to continu= e as a going concern in which case you could lose your entire investment. = The publisher of this newsletter does not represent that the information c= ontained in this message states all material facts or does not omit a mate= rial fact necessary to make the statements therein not misleading.All info= rmation provided within this email pertaining to investing, stocks, securi= ties must be understood as information provided and not investment advice.= The publisher of this newsletter advises all readers and subscribers to s= eek advice from a registered professional securities representative before= deciding to trade in stocks featured within this email. None of the mater= ial within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice= or solicitation.Many of these companies are on the verge of bankruptcy. Y= ou can lose all your money by investing in this stock. The publisher of th= is newsletter is not a registered investment advisor. Subscribers should n= ot view information herein as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice.= Any reference to past performance(s) of companies are specially selected = to be referenced based on the favorable performance of these companies. Yo= u would need perfect timing to acheive the results in the examples given. = There can be no assurance of that happening. Remember, as always, past per= formance is never indicative of future results and a thorough due diligenc= e effort, including a review of a company's filings when available, should= be completed prior to investing.The publisher of this newsletter has no r= elationship with LENF. In compliance with the Securities Act of 1933, Sect= ion17(b),The publisher of this newsletter discloses the receipt of ten tho= usand dollars from a third party, not an officer, director or affiliate sh= areholder for the circulation of this report. Be aware of an inherent conf= lict of interest resulting from such compensation due to the fact that thi= s is a paid advertisement and is not without bias.The party that paid us h= as a position in the stock they will sell at anytime without notice. All f= actual information in this report was gathered from public sources, includ= ing but not limited to Company Websites and Company Press Releases. All in= formation on the Company was obtained from the Company's website and is so= urced above. The publisher of this newsletter believes this information to= be reliable but can make no guarantee as to its accuracy or completeness.= Use of the material within this email constitutes your acceptance of thes= e terms. ----44843589106497874704-- From wlomaf.eekj@pae-inc.com Tue Oct 12 04:03:33 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA27229; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [211.194.239.105] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CHHnd-0007rR-KZ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:14:38 -0400 Received: from hzgjqsy8.overtonelectrical.com ([74.164.64.243]) by ea57-n.overtonelectrical.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(2.48.15128.88713); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:58:23 -0100 Message-ID: <26538.7053318.FQINDclva.4617y@overtonelectrical.com> Generate-Delivery-Report: No Distribution: loquat chao Prevent-NonDelivery-Report: Yes Reply-To: "Harrison.Grover" From: "Harrison.Grover" To: l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org Cc: policy-request@ietf.org, raven@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, nat-request@ietf.org, tel@ietf.org, ipv6-request@ietf.org, adslmib@ietf.org, ldap-dir-admin@ietf.org, gaa16739@ietf.org, ieprep@ietf.org Subject: Your Account is Ready Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:06:23 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--28937572104320939" X-Spam-Score: 9.3 (+++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab ----28937572104320939 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-3586-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Dear Applicant,

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    Columbus, OH 43085 ----28937572104320939-- From wlomaf.eekj@pae-inc.com Tue Oct 12 04:04:11 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA27431; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CHHoO-0007vM-DX; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:15:15 -0400 Received: from [222.232.37.132] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CHHdg-00013W-Al; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:04:09 -0400 Received: from hzgjqsy8.overtonelectrical.com ([74.164.64.243]) by ea57-n.overtonelectrical.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(2.48.15128.88713); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:58:23 -0100 Message-ID: <26538.7053318.FQINDclva.4617y@overtonelectrical.com> Generate-Delivery-Report: No Distribution: loquat chao Prevent-NonDelivery-Report: Yes Reply-To: "Harrison.Grover" From: "Harrison.Grover" To: l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org Cc: policy-request@ietf.org, raven@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, nat-request@ietf.org, tel@ietf.org, ipv6-request@ietf.org, adslmib@ietf.org, ldap-dir-admin@ietf.org, gaa16739@ietf.org, ieprep@ietf.org Subject: Your Account is Ready Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:06:23 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--28937572104320939" X-Spam-Score: 6.9 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab ----28937572104320939 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-3586-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Dear Applicant,

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    ------=_NextPart_2BE_2810_E75AF46D.0E259F68-- From gvsmgntai@yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 07:12:37 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13527; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:12:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CHhEZ-0001xb-Go; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:23:56 -0400 Received: from host80-6.pool80183.interbusiness.it ([80.183.6.80]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CHh3d-0001L3-Ef; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:12:38 -0400 Approved-By: spamcheck@localhost (127.0.0.1) Alternate-Recipient: Allowed Newsgroups: olympia stole, cancel quench, intonate gnome, smatter elliptic, incapacitate masochism Phone: 1-(222)-253-4881 Comments: attract ethel walcott cash bloodroot chrome bowditch crises chancellor rotate denebola eligible Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Identifier: gqywpsnzmheecrstvvwn Reply-To: "Elliot Burris" From: "Elliot Burris" To: bmwg-admin@ietf.org, bmwg-archive@ietf.org, bmwg-request@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org Subject: Under The Radar Stox Micro-cap Profile Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:13:05 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--538751133675698" Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 86f85b2f88b0d50615aed44a7f9e33c7 ----538751133675698 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-3596-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mineral Exploration Stock

    Delta Mining and Exploration Corp. OTC:DMXP

    Controls 6 properties totaling 7,554 acres (approximately 11 sq. miles)in Montana. Another 10,000 acres of prospective diamond and gold properties are controlled in Bolivia, South America. (Source: Company Website) Currently trading at .012

    Possibilty of an Absolutely Huge Week as Massive PR Campaign has started and is Expected to Last All Week.

    Imagine how well your portfolio would have done the last month or so if you had the scoop on the following stock:

    (OTCBB: MBAH):This stock closed at .01 on September 1st. This Little Giant closed at .06 on October 8th, up 500% in about 5 weeks. Do You Think IBM is Going to Move Like That Anytime Soon?

    As many of you may agree, some, not all, of these stocks move in price because they are promoted, making a very large number of investors aware of the stock. The awareness is underway on DMXP!

    Let's Look at The Company, Delta Mining and Exploration Corp. OTC:DMXP

    About The Company:

    Delta Mining and Exploration Corp. OTC:DMXP is a mineral exploration company that controls 6 properties totaling 7,554 acres (approximately 11 sq. miles) in Montana. The properties are all located over what management considers to be some of the most prospective diamond exploration terrain in the United States. Another 10,000 acres of prospective diamond and gold properties are controlled in Bolivia, South America. Initial work has revealed that the Bolivian properties display similar potential to those found in North America.

    The management team is led by Chief Executive Officer, Dr. Barry Rayment, who is experienced enough to take this junior exploration company to the next level. Dr. Rayment brings 32 years of experience in the field of geology, along with running some of the most successful mining companies in the industry. Dr. Rayment was the President of Bema Gold Corp., (AMEX: BGO), a company with a market cap of close to a billion dollars. He was also affiliated with Glamis Gold, Gold Fields Mining and Amselco Exploration (BP Minerals), among others. His vast experience in the mining sector along with his extensive knowledge of public companies will be an extraordinary asset to Delta and its shareholders as the company moves forward.

    Among the support team is Stephen Kay, a geologist with more than 30 years experience in exploration throughout Europe, South Africa, South America and the United States. While with Gold Fields Mining Corp., Stephen Kay was instrumental in the discovery and subsequent drilling of the 3 million ounce Mesquite gold deposit in California.

    Delta has experienced significant technical success since its start-up in 1997. For example, Delta has discovered the first in-situ microdiamond ever found in Montana on its Homestead Kimberlite, southeast of Lewistown. The Company also controls part of the Three Buttes Kimberlite where initial exploration has shown The Three Buttes Kimberlite to host typical diamond indicator minerals - a major step toward finding the presence of economic diamonds - including pyrope (garnet), chromite and clinoprroxene.

    An aggressive regional exploration program has the potential to discover additional kimberlite or lamproite pipes in this under-explored area to the south of known commercial diamond bearing kimberlites in Saskatchewan and Alberta, Canada.

    In Bolivia, Delta controls approximately two-thirds of a highly prospective diamondiferous terrain referred to as the Independencia group of concessions covering 7,860 acres (12 sq miles). The other one-third is presently being explored by De Beers. In addition to the Independencia property Delta controls more than 2,000 acres comprising the highly attractive Precambrian property that displays all the diamond indicator minerals that would suggest further exploration is justified.

    Delta seeks to increase growth for its investors not only by testing its extensive portfolio of diamond exploration properties but also by acquiring additional diamond properties. Delta will focus on identifying and developing strategic alliances with major mining companies as well as joint ventures to develop the properties and finance additional exploration.

    In addition to the highly prospective diamond properties Delta controls, they also control a gold property with great potential. The property is near La Paz in Bolivia, where initial analysis revealed high levels of gold per ton that would more than justify an extensive exploration program.

    (Source: Company Website)

    Recent Headlines: Go Online and Read The Full Stories!

    Delta Mining and Exploration Corp. Is Invited to Attend a Conference With the Bolivian Chamber of Commerce.

    Delta Mining and Exploration Corp. Visits Homestead Property in Preparation of Work Program.

    Delta Mining and Exploration Corp. Discloses Preliminary Gold Exploration Findings in South America.

    Delta Mining and Exploration, Corp. Looks to Continue Diamond Exploration in South America.

    Will DMXP explode higher as more and more investors become aware of the stock this weekend and next week? If you think so, you may not want to wait until it is too late. Remember, timing your trade is critical. Good Luck and Happy Trading.

    Information within this publication contains future looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be future looking statements. Future looking statements are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Future looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as projects, foresee, expects, will, anticipates, estimates, believes, understands or that As with many microcap stocks, today's company has additional risk factors that raise doubt about its ability to continue as a going concern. Delta Mining and Exploration is not a reporting company registered under the Securities Act of 1934 and hence there is limited information available about the company. It is not currently an operating company. Other factors include: an accumulated deficit, a negative net worth, a nominal cash position and no revenue in its most recent quarter. The company is going to need financing. If that financing does not occur, the company may not be able to continue as a going concern in which case you could lose your entire investment. The publisher of this newsletter does not represent that the information contained in this message states all material facts or does not omit a material fact necessary to make the statements therein not misleading.All information provided within this report pertaining to investing, stocks, securities must be understood as information provided and not investment advice. The publisher of this newsletter advises all readers and subscribers to seek advice from a registered professional securities representative before deciding to trade in stocks featured within this report. None of the material within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation.Many of these companies are on the verge of bankruptcy. You can lose all your money by investing in this stock. The publisher of this newsletter is not a registered investment expert. Subscribers should not view information herein as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice. Any reference to past performances of companies are specially selected to be referenced based on the favorable performance of these companies. You would need perfect timing to acheive the results in the examples given. There can be no assurance of that happening. Remember, as always, past performance is never indicative of future results and a thorough due diligence effort, including a review of a company's filings when available, should be completed prior to investing.The publisher of this newsletter has no relationship with MBAH. In compliance with the Securities Act of 1933, Section17 b, The publisher of this newsletter discloses the receipt of ten thousand dollars from a third party, not an officer, director or affiliate shareholder for the circulation of this report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such compensation due to the fact that this is a paid advertisement and is not without bias.The party that paid us has a position in the stock they will sell at anytime without notice. This could have a negative impact on the price of the stock. All factual information in this report was gathered from public sources, including but not limited to Company Websites and Company Press Releases. The publisher of this newsletter believes this information to be reliable but can make no assurance as to its accuracy or completeness. Use of the material within this report constitutes your acceptance of these terms. ----538751133675698-- From 6tzarjp@braunschweig.netsurf.de Wed Oct 13 09:19:02 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25111 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yahoobb218115224015.bbtec.net ([218.115.224.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CHjCk-0004uE-FS for opes-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:30:21 -0400 Received: from [189.61.150.130] by YahooBB218115224015.bbtec.net; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:19:03 +0300 Message-ID: <442-d37$e758sla6g$i2fj6tz$2@1zr2.qo.n80d> From: "Donny George" <6tzarjp@braunschweig.netsurf.de> Reply-To: "Donny George" <6tzarjp@braunschweig.netsurf.de> To: Subject: col|ege degre3s without years of classes Date: Wed, 13 Oct 04 17:19:03 GMT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="D7.C.F4A2_9795592D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 24.1 (++++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab --D7.C.F4A2_9795592D0 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't let your friend with a un1versity d1ploma upstage you.

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    Miami, FL 43085 ----2636151993479318489-- From dkgeegqon@internet.pl Thu Oct 14 18:54:58 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA17037; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.auction123.com ([198.64.168.78]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIEg2-0008IO-2R; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:06:38 -0400 Received: from %RECEIVED.fm365.com ([28.198.234.79]) by 198.64.168.78 %REC_WITH; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:49:06 -0600 Message-ID: <%MESSAGEID@fm365.com> X-Mailer: Bqbclpfh 2.5 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:49:06 +0600 From: "Marsha " <%FROM_USER@fm365.com.cnri.reston.va.us> Reply-To: "Marsha " <%FROM_USER@fm365.com.cnri.reston.va.us> To: nemo-web-archive@ietf.org, nomcom@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, ops-chairs@ietf.org, pana@ietf.org, pana-admin@ietf.org, pwe3@ietf.org, pwe3-admin@ietf.org, pwe3-request@ietf.org, rddp@ietf.org, rddp-admin@ietf.org Subject: 09-21-04 Organization: Bqbclpfh 2.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="96251533984295999" X-Spam-Score: 10.9 (++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: d9238570526f12788af3d33c67f37625 --96251533984295999 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=%CHARSET Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable %MAKE_TXT[3-6] --96251533984295999 Content-Type: text/html; charset=%CHARSET Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Valerie H

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    Chicago, IL 60679 ----655223934118762946-- From clrcveugtqfs@yahoo.com Sat Oct 16 12:00:18 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28697; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410161600.MAA28697@ietf.org> Received: from tamqfl1-ar8-4-41-007-002.tamqfl1.dsl-verizon.net ([4.41.7.2]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIrAI-0000Pf-4q; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:12:20 -0400 Approved-By: spamcheck@localhost (127.0.0.1) Alternate-Recipient: Allowed Newsgroups: barbaric cartridge, demitted shoehorn, autobiography brunhilde, ashland brewster, epistle depositary Phone: 1-(792)-772-7471 Comments: cling doom u derive cafe gibe ember beetle prizewinning change brainchildren comptroller Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Identifier: jiuyacaclifgjftnynnrxjnqrsqilb Reply-To: "Blanche Hardin" From: "Blanche Hardin" To: nomcom@ietf.org, nsis@ietf.org, nsis-admin@ietf.org, nsis-request@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, sigtran@ietf.org Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:02:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--91521710330441701718" X-Spam-Score: 9.8 (+++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 ----91521710330441701718 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-7923-3" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is Blanche Hardin. I wite you because we are accepting your mortgage = application. Our office confirms you can get a $220.000 lo=C0n for a $352.00 per month = payment. Approval process will take 1 minute, so please fill out the form on our we= bsite: http://neurosis.money-group.net Thank you. Best Regards Blanche Hardin First Account Manager ----91521710330441701718-- From bzppddqzwalvd@kube93mail.com Sat Oct 16 17:32:46 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15476; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [211.186.106.238] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIwM6-0005hf-CP; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:44:51 -0400 Received: from %RECEIVED.bboy.com (%RECEIVED.bboy.com [56.0.112.12]) by 211.186.106.238 %REC_WITH; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:30:36 +0100 Message-ID: <%MESSAGEID@bboy.com> From: "Allen " <%FROM_USER@bboy.com> Reply-To: "Allen " <%FROM_USER@bboy.com> To: irtf-chair@ietf.org, nemo@ietf.org, nemo-admin@ietf.org, nemo-archive@ietf.org, nemo-request@ietf.org, nemo-web-archive@ietf.org, nomcom@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, ops-chairs@ietf.org, pana@ietf.org, pana-admin@ietf.org, pwe3@ietf.org, pwe3-admin@ietf.org, pwe3-request@ietf.org Subject: 10-16-04 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:23:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Dsoavfj 5.1 Organization: Dsoavfj 5.1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="3317120438364281363" X-Webmail-Time: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 02:29:36 +0400 X-Spam-Score: 10.9 (++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: f5932bfc8385127f631fc458a872feb1 --3317120438364281363 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=%CHARSET Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable %MAKE_TXT[3-6] --3317120438364281363 Content-Type: text/html; charset=%CHARSET Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = fmspain wqrymjti lacjtgr assvaap hcvwajyis tcnodaqxu ejmpd pxjpaima= u fcyce jfkpcare lprffr ojlir hpcphygnc pkuxxrgun

    fmspain wqrymjti lacjtgr assvaap hcvwajyis tcnodaqxu ejmpd pxjpaimau fcyce jfkpcare lprffr ojlir hpcphygnc pkuxxrgun
    In Response to Application ID: 8599-67

    Description:

    Our central office has authorized me to send you appr= ov a l
    of your   mo r t gage based on your application. ciogdmikb, poqhm dfpsu, eyeczvhtq mnucsbu, sbwgvgmif= owovcak cpxoer ncpzdb Ahgjurpyvb wcamumtm ywkdqlgnv qxmpusv pvhdazqe dfrzncg
    Some of our information is missing and we need you to complete
    the form again so we can proccess your check.

    Thank you for your time.

    Quentin
    Account Manager

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    --3317120438364281363-- From carswell@neworleansemail.com Sun Oct 17 11:53:24 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02173; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CJDXO-0001oD-Io; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:05:39 -0400 Received: from [222.65.101.198] (helo=neworleansemail.com) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CJCWH-0000Lr-KS; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:00:26 -0400 Message-ID: <600CEC2D.FE02B4D@neworleansemail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:19:00 +1000 From: "georgene stanley" User-Agent: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Cecile Ford" Subject: Medical Miracle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Age Should Be Nothing More Than a Number. 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From kxqssfppc@yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 12:42:12 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05763; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410171642.MAA05763@ietf.org> Received: from p50867888.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.134.120.136]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CJEIc-0002d5-7a; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:54:28 -0400 Approved-By: spamcheck@localhost (127.0.0.1) Alternate-Recipient: Allowed Newsgroups: checkerboard hungary, default patriarchal, pavlov coltsfoot, cheeky tinker, alluvium suitcase Phone: 1-(964)-329-2186 Comments: usc imagery conspicuous bowline madagascar marlene hart dactyl dither solidify singsong impenetrable Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Identifier: gpgnbmmxmzrlgyorgwce Reply-To: "Scottie Delgado" From: "Scottie Delgado" To: opes-archive@ietf.org, p2prg@ietf.org, p2prg-admin@ietf.org, p2prg-request@ietf.org, pana@ietf.org, pana-admin@ietf.org Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:42:55 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--57727981390334859857" X-Spam-Score: 5.3 (+++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 ----57727981390334859857 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-7419-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is Scottie Delgado. I wite you because we are accepting your mortgage= application. Our office confirms you can get a $220.000 lo=C0n for a $352.00 per month = payment. Approval process will take 1 minute, so please fill out the form on our we= bsite: http://aaron-ill.money-stop.net Thank you. Best Regards Scottie Delgado First Account Manager ----57727981390334859857-- From tzfwtoos@yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 13:42:03 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA10446; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410171742.NAA10446@ietf.org> Received: from 62-43-178-214.user.ono.com ([62.43.178.214]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CJFES-0003eY-0k; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:54:18 -0400 Approved-By: spamcheck@localhost (127.0.0.1) Alternate-Recipient: Allowed Newsgroups: betelgeuse arctic, hellfire inhalation, irrepressible deduct, talent prolegomena, malt flange Phone: 1-(849)-461-9697 Comments: contributory ursuline swum carp nitpick sydney brownie cretan bini belgium singular cook Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Identifier: zdtwdrouflvqdpyxrccnxmt Reply-To: "Ilene Velez" From: "Ilene Velez" To: bmwg-request@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, p2prg@ietf.org, p2prg-admin@ietf.org Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:45:31 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--00662307918914905" X-Spam-Score: 5.4 (+++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 ----00662307918914905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-0395-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is Ilene Velez. I wite you because we are accepting your mortgage app= lication. Our office confirms you can get a $220.000 lo=C0n for a $352.00 per month = payment. Approval process will take 1 minute, so please fill out the form on our we= bsite: http://maidenhair-bouquet.money-stop.net Thank you. Best Regards Ilene Velez First Account Manager ----00662307918914905-- From KWGQKXSGFX@8d8d.com Sun Oct 17 16:00:28 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA19118; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.105.53.100] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CJHOW-00063f-8t; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:12:45 -0400 X-Message-Info: VVVPyPG68xEHnDv394w2+JTSYk1zJPZH Received: from mail937.hsp.optusnet.com.au ([32.43.193.64]) by ar59-g3.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:56:22 -0400 Received: from ZZLR84 (o72.56.246.234.ikekq0.vrt.optusnet.com.au [77.97.44.144]) by mail968.myi.optusnet.com.au (94.31.5s7/7.17.0) with SMTP id i1Q29Po66962; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:52:22 +0500 Message-ID: <22a985n8dy4u$ze3p19x7$ww9420p1@TDGJ27> From: "Abdul " To: "Nemo" References: Subject: 10-17-04 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 02:56:22 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--1037260344847376018" X-Spam-Score: 10.5 (++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 ----1037260344847376018 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Form submit

    Subject: Re: Form submit
    Dear Applicant,

    Your application was processed and approved. You are eligible for a 2.3= % rate and a $400,000 loan.

    Please verify your information here:
    http://www.usalw.com

    We look forward to hearing from you.

    Regards,
    Reba Holland
    Senior Account Manager
    McFarley Financial Association

    ----1037260344847376018-- From zgrraxhcujona@mailexcite.com Sun Oct 17 18:18:20 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA00162; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tamqfl1-ar8-4-46-219-238.tamqfl1.dsl-verizon.net ([4.46.219.238]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CJJXq-0000EH-9q; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:30:38 -0400 X-Message-Info: MRLFS4udmOLJgQhma7n51+QGn6nqhCL Received: from mail79503.zue.mminternet.com (231.84.186.253) by w6-xaq7.mminternet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:05:33 -0100 Received: from YMFZO2 (hvk64.234.208.232.nyq9.s.mminternet.com 0.22.154.31) by mail28.zv.mminternet.com (517.62.571omk22/5.2.22) with SMTP id jdh46G90WSksc289; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 05:06:33 +0600 Message-ID: <30z8im16umf8s$gs6rgx68g6$r89st0@ENYM7> From: "New Breed Equity Alert" To: "Opes-archive" References: Subject: Emerging Growth Stox 0pportunity Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:12:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--83440741798641698" X-Spam-Score: 5.0 (+++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee ----83440741798641698 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Consolidated General Incorporated. Stock Symbol. OTC: JVGI Currently Trading at. 0.03 Industry: Recreational Activities Industry P E: 25.5x Your Next Home Run? The explosion of the sports industry has far outstripped the growth of the overall economy, creating a total market estimated at more than 213 billion annually. Indeed, the growth of the sports industry and its impact on the American economy rivals that of far more heralded new economy markets. Professional sports represent some of the hottest and most overlooked investment opportunities on the Street, and professional sports plays have seen tremendous appreciation in recent months as investors flock to quality. Consider the case of Manchester United (London: MNU), the most successful sports franchise in the world valued at over 1.2 billion by Forbes Magazine, and which has seen its share price more than double since January of 2003. investors at that time could have seen their investment of 5,000 grow to more than 14,000! And this type of market valuation is the rule, not the exception (as is so often the case)- consider the New York Yankees, valued at 850 million on operating income of 16.1 million a P/E of 52x, or their nemesis the Boston Red Sox, who actually lost 2.1 million yet still retained a valuation of roughly 500 million. The Company. The Atlanta, GA-based company has acquired ownership and management interests in Major Indoor Soccer League franchise, the San Diego Sockers, and the Vancouver Ravens franchise of the National Lacrosse League, one of the fastest growing professional sports in North America. Under the leadership of Chairman and CEO Raj Kalra, JVGI is aggressively pursuing acquisition opportunities of =93Tier 2=94 and minor league sports franchises across North America to bring under its corporate stable. Not content to limit the Company to franchise management and development, and recognizing the tremendous revenue potentials inherent in vertical professional sports markets, Mr. Kalra has also implemented a multi-pronged growth strategy for JVGI, emphasizing key areas including venue acquisition, sports management, and league ownership. With increased revenues forecast for the near term period, we believe that JVGI has growth prospects and offers savvy investors a chance to make near-term trading gains. Keep a close eye on this Company; new announcements continue to bolster our confidence in this stock=92s investment potential. A Few Reasons to Consider Adding JVGI to Your Investment Portfolio JVGI is exceptionally well positioned in a rapidly growing US sports market, broadly estimated by Smith=92s Sports Business Journal at 213 billion in 2003. From 2002, this market grew more than 9% from a total size of 194.6 billion. Gate revenues for professional sports alone constituted 11.7 billion, while concessions, parking, and on site merchandise sales totaled 10.7 billion, with premium seating revenue of 3.73 billion. With its diversified operations across the professional sports market, JVGI is situated within highly profitable niche sporting markets. For example, facility and event management revenues totaled 6.75 billion, while marketing and consulting services totaled 2.3 billion. Through its varied and synergistic business endeavors across the sports market, we believe that JVGI is poised to see substantial revenue growth and equity appreciation over the near term period. 2. Consolidated General has just unveiled an important strategic marketing and management relationship with the San Diego Sockers franchise of the Major Indoor Soccer League. Owned by JVGI Chairman Raj Kalra, the San Diego Sockers are a highly successful franchise boasting 10 League championships over the past 11 seasons. San Diego is a highly profitable and popular market for professional soccer in the US, which only recently missed out on the chance to be named a Major League Soccer expansion franchise, positioning the Sockers to capitalize on their pre-eminent market position in the area. JVGI subsidiary Staffco Enterprise has been engaged to handle all day-to-day and game day operations, and we believe that successful management of this business will serve as a litmus test for the Company and will validate Staffco and JVGI for additional management and marketing contracts in professional sports franchises across North America. 3. JVGI Chairman Raj Kalra has recently completed the acquisition of National Lacrosse League franchise Vancouver Ravens, which we believe will translate into a management and marketing relationship for the Company. Long relegated to the margins of North American professional sports, lacrosse has undergone a period of tremendous expansion and renewed popularity over the last three years, with revenues growing by over 400% to more than 21 million, league profitability for the first time ever, and league attendance jumping 11% last season to 8,658 a game on average. Fox Sports Net=92s regional cable networks has also agree to broadcast league games to more than55 million homes. Over the last three years, the entry fee for a new franchise has reached 3 million, from only 500,000 in 2000. Professional lacrosse has become the fastest growing and most dynamic sport in North America, and we believe that JVGI will be able to capitalize on its relationship with Mr. Kalra to generate revenues from management and marketing operations for the Vancouver Ravens. 4. JVGI has built an experienced leadership team, who have a wide range of senior management expertise in growing new businesses. Chairman & CEO Raj Kalra has enjoyed highly successful management tenures at a number of new technology companies, with positions including President of AcSys Biometrics, President of Reach Systems Grp., and founder of RJR Everest. Mr. Kalra has also recently acquired ownership of rapidly growing sports franchises the Vancouver Ravens and the San Diego Sockers, which the Company will capitalize upon to develop long-term revenue streams from franchise management, consulting, and marketing services. JVGI has recently hired experienced marketing executive James Hartley as President of its Staffco Enterprises LLC subsidiary. Mr. Hartley is a proven and experienced marketing professional well versed in establishing strategic relationships with sponsors and the media. Mr. Hartley co-founded and helmed integrated marketing agency, Envision Grp., with clients including Anheuser Busch, Mazda, Neutrogena, Upper Deck, and the LA Dodgers. He also previously served as General Manager of the Toronto office of sports marketing agency DelWiber + Associates where he developed sponsorship plans for multi-million dollar funding of the NHL Hall of Fame. 5. JVGI has recently acquired an equity position in a newly formed event marketing company to capitalize on the growing market for fans to meet professional athletes and benefit charitable organizations. This company will present sports figures to the public in formal ballroom settings, donating 20% of the proceeds to athlete=92s chosen charities. This company represents a synergistic and complimentary match with JVGI=92s operations in sports marketing, management, and operations, and will provide a recurring revenue stream for the Company. 6. Consolidated General has entered into a verbal agreement to acquire major parts of a leading retail and marketing company, which handles computer and consumer electronics sales, and anticipated closing this sale over the coming weeks. This company has developed a sophisticated merchandising and distribution infrastructure which JVGI will utilize to jump-start its planned long-term goals of developing retail and catalogue sales of sports retail and licensed goods to consumers. Additionally, this acquisition will provide an additional source of revenue for the Company and cash-flow to facilitate expansion plans. This publication is an independent publication with the goal of giving investors the necessary knowledge to make rational and profitable investment decisions. Use of the material within this newsletter constitutes your acceptance of the terms in this closing statement. This publication does not provide an analysis of the Companys financial position and is not an solicitation to purchase or sell securities Investing in securities is speculative and carries risk. It is advisable that any investment should be made after consulting with your investment expert and after reviewing the financial statements of the company. The information in this report is believed to be reliable, but its accuracy cannot be assured. Past performance does not insure similar future results. This is not purported to be a complete and thorough analysis of the featured company and reccomends a complete review of the Company's regulatory filings at secgov The information herein contains future looking statements and information within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, including statements regarding expected continual growth of the featured company. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be future looking statements. Future looking statements are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Future looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as projects, foresee, expects, will, anticipates, estimates, believes, understands, or that by statements indicating certain actions may, could, or might occur. The publisher discloses the receipt of twenty thousand dollars from a third party, not an officer, director, or affiliate shareholder of the company for the preparation of this online report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such compensation due to the fact that this is a paid publication. All factual information in this report was gathered from public sources, including but not limited to Company Web sites, SEC filings and Company Press Releases. This information is believed to be reliable but can make no absolute certainty as to its accuracy or completeness. As with many microcap stocks, todays company has additional risk factors worth noting. Those factors may include an accumulated deficit since its inception, a negative net worth, reliance on loans from officers, directors and a majority shareholder to pay expenses, nominal cash and the need to raise capital. The company may have a going concern opinion from its auditor. Writers and mailers have been compensated for the dissemination of company information on behalf of one or more of the companies mentioned in this release. Parties involved in the creation and distribution of this profile have been compensated by a third party (third party), who is non-affiliated, for services provided including dissemination of company information in this release. PR and other individuals and other creators of this letter will sell all of its original shares during the distribution of this profile. Parties involved may immediately sell some or any shares in a profiled company held by profile creators and may have previously sold shares in a profiled company held by PR Individuals involved. Our mailing services for a company may cause the company=92s stock price to go up, in which event involved parties would make a pro fit when it sells its stock in the company. In addition, our selling of a company=92s stock may have a negative effect on the market price of the stock. ----83440741798641698-- From srlnro@optonline.com Sun Oct 17 20:10:54 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06579; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CJLIu-00024l-Pm; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:23:13 -0400 Received: from 12-223-47-56.client.insightbb.com ([12.223.47.56]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CJL6y-0004fN-Qk; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:10:54 -0400 X-Message-Info: 855hYPEuDN18ICfbOYY1KWJ767TfFHgsdpeUSZdmZGds6F Received: from eircom.net (96.114.170.0) by mpv633-l798.eircom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.4.9175.0950); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:07:41 -0100 Received: from eircom.net (eircom.net 244.68.32.120) by eircom.net (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id rkh6JQUQ817 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 05:10:41 +0400 (EST) (envelope-from srlnro@optonline.com) Received: from TY4186794977348 (modemcable951.16593-67.dhw.eircom.net 240.160.40.204) (authenticated bits=1) by eircom.net (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id bv008BI1o116 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:02:41 -0400 (EST) (envelope-from srlnro@optonline.com) Message-ID: <016wbs74kz77$t26g598u818$8rek395eec97@I38039221795293> From: "Rolex's for ever!" To: Subject: Rolex ?-Opes-archive congenital accreditate sequent Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:05:41 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--664670503769273620" X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 ----664670503769273620 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Carter Watchs A Perfect Gift All reputed makes and models available Daytona Submariner Yacht-master Date - date Explorer GMT-master II Air-King Date-Just Day-Date Oyster Perpetual http://bestsellingreplicas.info/index.php?ref=3Dhp Watches, clocks and alarm clocks manufactured in Switzerland bear the desi= gnation -Swiss made- (or its abbreviation "Swiss") as well as the logo of = the producer or distributor. This label enjoys a solid reputation througho= ut the world. What lies behind this reputation What does a label like this mean for the consumer "Swiss made" embodies a concept of quality that has been forged over the y= ears. It includes the technical quality of watches (accuracy, reliability,= water-resistance and shock-resistance), as well as their aesthetic qualit= y (elegance and originality of design). It covers both traditional manufac= turing and new technologies (micro-electronics). The Swiss are not the only watchmakers to manufacture high-quality timepie= ces and are consequently faced with strong competition. However, thanks to= their unique infrastructure and to their know-how and spirit of innovatio= n, they have succeeded in maintaining their leading position. The intrinsic value of the "Swiss made" label, therefore, is the result of= considerable efforts on the part of watchmaking companies, who are ultima= tely responsible for maintaining its reputation. http://bestsellingreplicas.info/index.php?ref=3Dhp sincerely, Kristen Deleon Sales Manager Carter Watchs A Perfect Gift ----664670503769273620-- From wo16281628@163.net Sun Oct 17 23:37:45 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA20571 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410180337.XAA20571@ietf.org> Received: from [218.17.61.237] (helo=163.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CJOX6-0005nq-Va for opes-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:50:07 -0400 From: =?GB2312?B?ye7b2si6waa/xry8?= Subject: =?GB2312?B?s6y1zbzbKr/sy9nXqNK1yc/Dxc6s0N6158TU?= To: opes-archive@ietf.org Content-Type: text/html;charset="GB2312" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:37:59 +0800 X-Priority: 2 X-Mailer: FoxMail 4.0 beta 2 [cn] X-Spam-Score: 8.2 (++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-NONENGLISH: Subject contains non-English characters X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 ÎÞ±êÌâÎĵµ
     
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    discontinue Captain Anderson ordered the engines to be stopped at once, and one of the= men went down to ascertain the extent of the injury;=20 From zckdhql@yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 08:24:44 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18123; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410191224.IAA18123@ietf.org> Received: from 177.5.87.61.ap.yournet.ne.jp ([61.87.5.177]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CJtEu-0003Nl-Hi; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:37:22 -0400 Approved-By: spamcheck@localhost (127.0.0.1) Alternate-Recipient: Allowed Newsgroups: embezzle hence, md keats, malady bulldog, cellophane ginger, opinionate ziegler Phone: 1-(608)-657-4108 Comments: cominform mangle eyelid backhand storm decile provide binge deprave bundy swift crocodile Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Identifier: jafinuxitjzbubmpj Reply-To: "Elvis Bouchard" From: "Elvis Bouchard" To: opes-archive@ietf.org, p2prg@ietf.org, p2prg-admin@ietf.org Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:27:32 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--9398952300689388709" X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 ----9398952300689388709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-6582-6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is Elvis Bouchard. I write to you because we are accepting your mortg= age application. Our office confirms you can get a $220.000 lo=C0n for a $252.00 per month = payment. Approval process will take 1 minute, so please fill out the form on our we= bsite: http://flatland-eldest.my-cash.net Thank you. Best Regards Elvis Bouchard First Account Manager ----9398952300689388709-- From pvzvyaxzdbotp@nameplanet.com Tue Oct 19 12:15:33 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11428; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CJwqI-00022E-Jz; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:28:14 -0400 Received: from cdm-66-76-138-229.jsbr.cox-internet.com ([66.76.138.229]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CJwdq-0006bj-Pm; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:15:24 -0400 Received: from %RECEIVED.info.com.ph (%RECEIVED.info.com.ph [10.16.178.112]) by 66.76.138.229 %REC_WITH; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:12:37 +0300 Message-ID: <%MESSAGEID@info.com.ph> From: "Debora Quick" <%FROM_USER@info.com.ph> Reply-To: "Debora Quick" <%FROM_USER@info.com.ph> To: opes-archive@ietf.org X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Subject: Windows software half price Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:11:37 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="245734091105973413" X-Spam-Score: 8.4 (++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 --245734091105973413 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=%CHARSET Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable melt albany provenance aspect which valletta connotative riemannian stature kettle add afghanistan pun toil coffer locution sally wove aesthete consider --245734091105973413 Content-Type: text/html; charset=%CHARSET Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SURPRISE YOUR COMPUTER:

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    dyspeptic combustiondu invertebrate leveeadonis sanctify chumpfreeway demand abstractercountywide ahoy brainyltv perihelion corneliusbrowbeaten smart bettorrang preponderant fireboatcartilaginous cask thelmaeggplant beckman megconant freakish illusorydespite gordon madstaff callous bowineluctable ecclesiastic triumphantmonk =20 --245734091105973413-- From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Tue Oct 19 20:58:05 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA10457 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CK506-0001ey-AZ for opes-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:10:50 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9K0lbFM075467; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9K0lbAn075466; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:47:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9K0laGp075437 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:47:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markus@mhof.com) Received: from [135.104.20.66] (unknown[135.104.20.66]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20041020004736016001r7n1e> (Authid: mhofmann); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:47:36 +0000 Message-ID: <4175B5BB.80609@mhof.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:47:55 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OPES Group Subject: Another Update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, we heard from Ted that our new charter proposal was discussed by the IESG and no major concerns were raised. It went out for public review and will get a second IESG review at the next telechat. Based on this, let's get a discussion of the new (proposed) work items going on the mailing list. Tony suggested to have an ananalysis of "P" vs. "Sieve". Anyone any thoughts or willing to take a first crack? Why do we need to invent a new language when there's already a language that does very similar things we want to do for email? Very valid question! [This hopefully gets some folks rolling :] We also need to get a discussion going on SMTP Use Cases - so please post to the list of you've some thoughts on that! Folks - it was quiet for a while. Now that we move forward with the new work items, let's get the discussions going again. Only with active participants it's worthwhile for us to continue! -Markus From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Tue Oct 19 20:58:07 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA10474 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CK506-0001f4-Td for opes-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:10:52 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9K0ntKG075866; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:49:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9K0ntX9075865; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:49:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9K0nsHD075793 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markus@mhof.com) Received: from [135.104.20.66] (unknown[135.104.20.66]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20041020004954016001raoee> (Authid: mhofmann); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:49:54 +0000 Message-ID: <4175B646.4020008@mhof.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:50:14 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OPES Group Subject: Request for Agenda ITems at IETF 61 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, we've tentatively requested a one hour time slot for the upcoming IETF meeting in Washington. Please send in any agenda item request! Based on my previous email, I would assume that we could have "P vs. Sieve" and "SMTP Use Cases" on the agenda. Anyone willing to present on either of these topics please let us know. -Markus From ooxdxufafboim@yahoo.com Wed Oct 20 12:12:01 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19239; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410201612.MAA19239@ietf.org> Received: from 61-56-138-118-adsl-tai.static.so-net.net.tw ([61.56.138.118]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKJGg-0003xu-8l; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:24:56 -0400 Language: English Disposition-Notification-Options: No Prevent-NonDelivery-Report: No Approved: Yes (127.0.0.1) Reply-To: "Mary Joiner" From: "Mary Joiner" To: nomcom@ietf.org, nsis@ietf.org, nsis-admin@ietf.org, nsis-request@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:14:44 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--872661908403338424" X-Spam-Score: 6.6 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a ----872661908403338424 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8161-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is Mary Joiner. I write to you because we are accepting your mortgage= application. Our office confirms you can get a $220.000 lo=C0n for a $252.00 per month = payment. Approval process will take 1 minute, so please fill out the form on our we= bsite: http://pfizer.quotestore.net/j8/jwex.php?cyb=3D101> Thank you. Best Regards Mary Joiner First Account Manager ----872661908403338424-- From ymceplkb@yahoo.com Wed Oct 20 13:02:45 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA25994; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKK3m-0005fR-J8; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:15:40 -0400 Received: from p50922d4f.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.146.45.79]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CKJrI-0004RT-5f; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:02:45 -0400 Language: English Content-Alias: 1717934963157949093381654 In-Reply-To: "indiscriminate cremate afterglow b's detestation" Reply-To: "Vilma Hinton" From: "Vilma Hinton" To: bmwg@ietf.org, bmwg-admin@ietf.org, bmwg-archive@ietf.org, bmwg-request@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:01:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--205889896202105261" Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a ----205889896202105261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-4968-5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is Vilma Hinton. I write to you because we are accepting your mortgag= e application. Our office confirms you can get a $220.000 lo=C0n for a $252.00 per month = payment. Approval process will take 1 minute, so please fill out the form on our we= bsite: http://excessive.quotestore.net/j8/jwex.php?cyb=3D101> Thank you. Best Regards Vilma Hinton First Account Manager ----205889896202105261-- From vpvgispzvyqug@pathfindermail.com Wed Oct 20 14:48:10 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09369; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKLho-0000z6-AR; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:01:05 -0400 Received: from user-vc8f3vi.biz.mindspring.com ([216.135.143.242]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CKLVH-0001AT-0P; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:48:10 -0400 Received: from 7.149.72.165 by 216.135.143.242; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:45:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Damien Lin" Reply-To: "Damien Lin" To: opes-archive@ietf.org, ops-chairs@ietf.org Subject: pay less for Windows XP Home Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:43:00 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--84562739422941966" X-Originating-IP: 65.246.255.50 X-Spam-Score: 8.0 (++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a ----84562739422941966 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable











    tappet flexdepredate van acumendiscriminant misty botanicnibble rat saplingbrinkmanship programming jeremiahdogging digression custodytribesman crept maskaliquot consist coneyscheme kobayashi thereforfacto oblige purifybobble thunderbolt sunazerbaijan debate achingelectroencephalograph luis whereshoal infeasible lateralcottage propaganda glandnecromancy obsolescent levinepigskin amphetamine festjune conway cooaeschylus infamous appraiseala asphalt conciliatoryduke earl complainthilum kant corticalseptennial bacchus correctdionysian asia mcgregorah tantamount aspirantweaponry trademark authenticjuice orographic plyscoreannulled carburetor deportationnimh freestone waltmelanoma lisbon deftmemorial style covarybeep ecology averforever marquee avariceconfusion transmitted cricketcontrariety inputting burgundydigression harvey centraladrenaline chamfer choppyscarface bellatrix matricesoccur =20 ----84562739422941966-- From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Wed Oct 20 15:25:26 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15485 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKMHt-0002b4-J9 for opes-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:38:22 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9KJE0Gg008599; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:14:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9KJE0XJ008598; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:14:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9KJDxnf008576 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:13:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dinaras@cnri.reston.va.us) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13677; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410201914.PAA13677@ietf.org> From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-openproxy@imc.org, Markus Hofmann , Tony Hansen Reply-to: iesg@ietf.org Subject: WG Review: Recharter of Open Pluggable Edge Services (opes) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:14:00 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac A modified charter has been submitted for the Open Pluggable Edge Services (opes) working group in the Applications Area of the IETF. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following description was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by October 27th. Open Pluggable Edge Services (opes) ----------------------------------- Current Status: Active Working Group Description of Working Group: The Internet facilitates the development of networked services at the application level that both offload origin servers and improve the user experience. Web proxies, for example, are commonly deployed to provide services such as Web caching, virus scanning, and request filtering. Lack of standardized mechanisms to trace and to control such intermediaries causes problems with respect to failure detection, data integrity, privacy, and security. The OPES Working Group has previously developed an architectural framework to authorize, invoke, and trace such application-level services for HTTP. The framework follows a one-party consent model, which requires that each service be authorized explicitly by at least one of the application-layer endpoints. It further requires that OPES services are reversible by mutual agreement of the application endpoints. In particular, the WG has developed a protocol suite for invocation and tracking of OPES services inside the net. The protocol suite includes a generic, application-agnostic protocol core (OCP Core) that is supplemented by profiles specific to the application-layer protocol used between the endpoints. So far, the WG has specified an OCP profile for HTTP, which supports OPES services that operate on HTTP messages. In a next step, the WG will specify one or more OCP profiles that will support OPES services operating on SMTP. In particular, the profile to be specified will enable an SMTP server (the OPES processor) to encapsulate and forward SMTP data and metadata to a callout server for additional processing. Several kinds of agents participate in SMTP exchanges, including MSA, MTA, MDA, and MUA. The first OCP/SMTP profile will address the needs of at least the MTA and/or MDA. More profiles may be needed to address other agent-specific needs, such as for LMTP and/or SUBMIT. The security and privacy concerns of SMTP must be carefully analyzed as part of the definition of the profile. In addition, the WG will define a rules language to control selection and invocation of services by an OPES processor. This includes a mechanism allowing an OPES processor to perform a runtime check of service parameters, leveraging existing interface description standards like WSDL, if possible, or OPES-specific description otherwise. Defining language(s) for implementing OPES services is out of the WG scope. The rules language will be based on previous work of the WG on a rules language named "P". The WG will have a design goal that the language be compatible with existing policy work within the IETF (e.g. IETF Policy Framework) and be able to interface with systems automating distribution of policies to multiple endpoints. It will be out of scope for this WG to develop the policy framework and specify multiple-endpoint policy distribution. The group's new work items can be listed as: - Develop a document about "Scenarios and Use Cases for OPES Services operating on SMTP". - Define profile(s) for OCP core that handle SMTP messages or parts thereof. - Define a rules language to control the selection and invocation of HTTP-based or SMTP-based OPES services. Each deliverable must follow the previously developed OPES architecture. As each deliverable is developed, it must address the IAB considerations specified in RFC 3238. 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    From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Thu Oct 21 20:58:27 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA17750 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKnxx-0007vb-0f for opes-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:11:38 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9M0mcp5050363; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:48:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9M0mc6O050362; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:48:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9M0mbAf050352 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:48:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markus@mhof.com) Received: from [135.104.20.65] (unknown[135.104.20.65]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <20041022004836014005ri9je> (Authid: mhofmann); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:48:37 +0000 Message-ID: <417858F8.10103@mhof.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:48:56 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OPES Group Subject: Re: Another Update References: <4175B5BB.80609@mhof.com> In-Reply-To: <4175B5BB.80609@mhof.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, if there is no interest to continue the work with a new charter, we should withdraw our new charter proposal and close the WG. If there's an interest to continue, we need a discussion on this list to get the work going. AND - we need folks willing to put in the time and effort to drive the work forward. Thanks, -Markus Markus Hofmann wrote: > > Folks, > > we heard from Ted that our new charter proposal was discussed by the > IESG and no major concerns were raised. It went out for public review > and will get a second IESG review at the next telechat. Based on this, > let's get a discussion of the new (proposed) work items going on the > mailing list. > > Tony suggested to have an ananalysis of "P" vs. "Sieve". Anyone any > thoughts or willing to take a first crack? Why do we need to invent a > new language when there's already a language that does very similar > things we want to do for email? Very valid question! [This hopefully > gets some folks rolling :] > > We also need to get a discussion going on SMTP Use Cases - so please > post to the list of you've some thoughts on that! > > Folks - it was quiet for a while. Now that we move forward with the new > work items, let's get the discussions going again. Only with active > participants it's worthwhile for us to continue! > > -Markus > From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Thu Oct 21 20:58:31 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA17776 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKny0-0007vl-ST for opes-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:11:42 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9M0k8QW050013; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:46:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9M0k8W0050012; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:46:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9M0k7xu050003 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:46:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markus@mhof.com) Received: from [135.104.20.65] (unknown[135.104.20.65]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2004102200460701500o5s1fe> (Authid: mhofmann); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:46:08 +0000 Message-ID: <41785863.40003@mhof.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:46:27 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OPES Group Subject: Re: Request for Agenda ITems at IETF 61 References: <4175B646.4020008@mhof.com> In-Reply-To: <4175B646.4020008@mhof.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, if we don't have agenda items nor speakers, we don't need to meet in Washington. Please send it agenda items or indicate your willingness to speak to one of the two suggested topics ASAP. Otherwise we'll cancel the meeting at IETF 61. Thanks, Markus Markus Hofmann wrote: > > Folks, > > we've tentatively requested a one hour time slot for the upcoming IETF > meeting in Washington. Please send in any agenda item request! > > Based on my previous email, I would assume that we could have "P vs. > Sieve" and "SMTP Use Cases" on the agenda. Anyone willing to present on > either of these topics please let us know. > > -Markus > From buyers@org.com Thu Oct 21 21:58:57 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA29014 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410220158.VAA29014@ietf.org> Received: from 203-70-159-13.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw ([203.70.159.13] helo=127.0.0.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKouV-0002GD-S1 for opes-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:12:09 -0400 Received: from ([192.168.168.200]) by 127.0.0.1 (127.0.0.1) (MDaemon.PRO.v7.0.1.R) with ESMTP id md50004545258.msg; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:31:46 +0800 From: ÊÀ½çóÒ× To: opes-archive@ietf.org Subject: ¿ªÍØÍâó±Ø±¸¹¤¾ß!!! X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Reply-To: buyersdata@tom.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:28:40 +0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=gb2312 X-Spam-Processed: 127.0.0.1, Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:31:46 +0800 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.168.200 X-Return-Path: buyers@org.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: opes-archive@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 15.1 (+++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-NONENGLISH: Subject contains non-English characters X-Scan-Signature: 48472a944c87678fcfe8db15ffecdfff ÍØÕ¹Íâó£¬ÄãÓõķ½·¨ÕýÈ·Âð?

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    From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Thu Oct 21 23:29:08 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA07167 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKqJo-00046k-CB for opes-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:42:21 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9M3I6Se083931; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:18:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9M3I6W7083930; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:18:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from measurement-factory.com (measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.5]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9M3I53h083894 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:18:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: from measurement-factory.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9M3I9J2071989 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:18:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: (from rousskov@localhost) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id i9M3I98N071988; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:18:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:13:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Alex Rousskov To: Markus Hofmann cc: OPES Group Subject: Re: Another Update In-Reply-To: <417858F8.10103@mhof.com> Message-ID: <20041021221017.W621@volx.measurement-factory.com> References: <4175B5BB.80609@mhof.com> <417858F8.10103@mhof.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Markus Hofmann wrote: > if there is no interest to continue the work with a new charter, we > should withdraw our new charter proposal and close the WG. > > If there's an interest to continue, we need a discussion on this list > to get the work going. AND - we need folks willing to put in the time > and effort to drive the work forward. Markus, I will review Sieve and do a P-versus-Sieve comparison, hopefully by Tuesday. Since I am not attending IETF-wide meetings, I do not have strong preferences regarding the agenda. Thanks, Alex. From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 06:32:08 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA19371 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKwv3-0002zE-VD for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:45:24 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MAJM13074949; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MAJMid074941; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:19:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail2.webwasher.com (wwsmtp.webwasher.com [217.146.159.51]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MAJK5L074800 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:19:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin.stecher@WEBWASHER.com) Received: from mail.WEBWASHER.COM [192.168.0.251] by mail2.webwasher.com id URBDB7K3 outgoing id URBDB7K3; 22 Oct 2004 12:19:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: SMTP Use Cases Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:19:04 +0200 Message-ID: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05E9@mail.webwasher.com> Thread-Topic: SMTP Use Cases Thread-Index: AcS4II7DfE/7Mn9TSkuXERnqvVZM1w== From: "Martin Stecher" To: "OPES WG (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id i9MAJM5L074925 Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, mid of July there has been a short discussion whether we want to add a Use Cases section to the SMTP adaptation draft or create an extra document about SMTP use cases. Maybe we first collect the use cases we feel important to write about and then also consider the volume of that before deciding where to put it. Here are my first thoughts on SMTP use cases. Please add and comment. There are use cases for SMTP message content (1) and SMTP dialog adaptation (2). And there are use cases where the message content may have an influence on mail forwarding options or trigger other side effects (3). 1. Examples for message content adaptation: - Virus checking - Other security policies (e.g. forbidden attachment types) - Content Analyzes (classify content into categories, search for forbidden content) - Translation of message text - Filter Spam (pure content adaption may just mark the message, for other actions see below) - Transform content to make it better readable on special mail clients (e.g. Blackberries) - Encrypt emails or verify signature. 2. Short form of the examples for SMTP dialog adaptation I gave in my emai on July 14, plus a new one: - Validate "MAIL FROM" - Validate "RCPT TO" - Sender validation via IP, HELO, SenderID, etc. - Resolve distribution lists 3. Examples for mail forwarding options or other side effects: - Delay a message of a certain size or content - Send virus notifications to others when virus has been detected - Move email to a special queue (e.g. Spam queue) - Drop a (spam) message - Out of office replies Regards Martin From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 10:26:55 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08504 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL0aH-0007S5-Hk for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:40:12 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MEI24M047285; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MEI2Ru047284; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:18:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from montage.altserver.com (montage.altserver.com [63.247.74.122]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MEI1XQ047267 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:18:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@utel.net) Received: from [82.251.119.93] (helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1CL0Ey-0008Dw-BE; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:18:01 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041022150714.04629140@mail.utel.net> X-Sender: info+utel.net@mail.utel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:17:28 +0200 To: "Martin Stecher" , "OPES WG (E-mail)" From: jfcm Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases In-Reply-To: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05E9@mail.webwasher.com> References: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05E9@mail.webwasher.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14647A19 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - imc.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - utel.net Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Martin, I do not see any of these examples (which are much needed) being an OPES. They are middlebox (RFC 3234) services. None of them are on the fly protocol add-on functions in a store and foreward system. jfc At 12:19 22/10/2004, Martin Stecher wrote: >Hi, > >mid of July there has been a short discussion whether we want >to add a Use Cases section to the SMTP adaptation draft or >create an extra document about SMTP use cases. > >Maybe we first collect the use cases we feel important to >write about and then also consider the volume of that before >deciding where to put it. > >Here are my first thoughts on SMTP use cases. >Please add and comment. > >There are use cases for SMTP message content (1) and SMTP dialog >adaptation (2). And there are use cases where the message content >may have an influence on mail forwarding options or trigger >other side effects (3). > >1. Examples for message content adaptation: > >- Virus checking >- Other security policies (e.g. forbidden attachment types) >- Content Analyzes (classify content into categories, search for forbidden >content) >- Translation of message text >- Filter Spam (pure content adaption may just mark the message, for other >actions see below) >- Transform content to make it better readable on special mail clients >(e.g. Blackberries) >- Encrypt emails or verify signature. > > >2. Short form of the examples for SMTP dialog adaptation I gave in my emai >on July 14, plus a new one: > >- Validate "MAIL FROM" >- Validate "RCPT TO" >- Sender validation via IP, HELO, SenderID, etc. >- Resolve distribution lists > > >3. Examples for mail forwarding options or other side effects: > >- Delay a message of a certain size or content >- Send virus notifications to others when virus has been detected >- Move email to a special queue (e.g. Spam queue) >- Drop a (spam) message >- Out of office replies > > >Regards >Martin From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 10:37:24 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09679 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL0kZ-0007nE-RT for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:50:41 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MESh4v049117; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:28:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MEShvZ049116; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:28:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail2.webwasher.com (wwsmtp.webwasher.com [217.146.159.51]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MESf0n049102 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:28:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin.stecher@WEBWASHER.com) Received: from mail.WEBWASHER.COM [192.168.0.251] by mail2.webwasher.com id QA8UIM92 outgoing id QA8UIM92; 22 Oct 2004 16:28:38 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: SMTP Use Cases Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:28:38 +0200 Message-ID: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05F4@mail.webwasher.com> Thread-Topic: SMTP Use Cases Thread-Index: AcS4QfIGoYFlWk6EQZGhoIQQFeC5XQAAJUhw From: "Martin Stecher" To: "OPES WG (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id i9MESg0n049110 Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit jfc, > I do not see any of these examples (which are much needed) > being an OPES. > They are middlebox (RFC 3234) services. None of them are on the fly > protocol add-on functions in a store and foreward system. RFC 3234 lists in the catalogue of middleboxes in section 2.10 for example the Application Layer Firewall which an SMTP client/server pair or a Web proxy agent. I think this example can help us to find the way from our recent HTTP work to the SMTP work now. The SMTP client/server in the Application Layer Firewall is the OPES processor in the OPES context that talks to a callout server as before. While RFC 3234 lists protocol checks and other features that ensure the validity of the application. Exactly what we expect all the time from the OPES processor; that part is responsible for sending valid SMTP (or HTTP) to its peer. Content adaptation is being done in the callout server in an OPES scenario. If you disagree, what kind of SMTP use cases do you see for OPES? Regards Martin From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 11:11:15 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12464 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL1HL-00007I-QU for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:24:33 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MF3Fg2053815; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:03:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MF3FkZ053814; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:03:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from crufty.research.bell-labs.com (crufty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.49]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MF3EJw053806 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:03:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hofmann@bell-labs.com) Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (H-135-104-2-10.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by crufty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MF3B1O034982 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com [135.180.160.8]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MF36U1045558 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [135.112.116.14] (biena.ho.lucent.com [135.112.116.14]) by bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MF36QD003296 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41792126.20700@bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:03:02 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "OPES WG (E-mail)" Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases References: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05E9@mail.webwasher.com> In-Reply-To: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05E9@mail.webwasher.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martin Stecher wrote: > 3. Examples for mail forwarding options or other side effects: > > - Delay a message of a certain size or content > - Send virus notifications to others when virus has been detected > - Move email to a special queue (e.g. Spam queue) > - Drop a (spam) message > - Out of office replies - Stripping of large attachments from emails, putting them on a Web server, and replace the attachment in email with a URL to that server file (Wished I had that service lats time I connected through dial-up and received tons of PPT presentations in emails...) -Markus From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 11:46:40 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA15318 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:46:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL1pU-0000oK-KJ for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:59:59 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MFb9DD057328; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:37:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MFb9ve057327; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:37:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from montage.altserver.com (montage.altserver.com [63.247.74.122]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MFb8Tm057321 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@utel.net) Received: from [82.251.119.93] (helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1CL1Ta-0004vY-Oj; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:37:11 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041022172218.046f5650@mail.utel.net> X-Sender: info+utel.net@mail.utel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:32:20 +0200 To: Markus Hofmann , "OPES WG (E-mail)" From: jfcm Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases In-Reply-To: <41792126.20700@bell-labs.com> References: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05E9@mail.webwasher.com> <41792126.20700@bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14647A19 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - imc.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - utel.net Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d At 17:03 22/10/2004, Markus Hofmann wrote: >Martin Stecher wrote: > >>3. Examples for mail forwarding options or other side effects: >>- Delay a message of a certain size or content >>- Send virus notifications to others when virus has been detected >>- Move email to a special queue (e.g. Spam queue) >>- Drop a (spam) message >>- Out of office replies > >- Stripping of large attachments from emails, putting them on a Web > server, and replace the attachment in email with a URL to that > server file This is a first step ahead towards what I name "weemail" (and end of spam) :-) This a firewall middlebox fonction. Certainly a good fonction. But is it an edge function? Why this content massaging (true for every mail service) would be specific to SMTP? Why not to review the charter and talk of "mail services"? And review the reference to MTAs. There actually tools (design, protocol, etc) and application to types of exchanges under serveral protocols. jfc From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 11:47:32 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA15360 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL1qU-0000pP-7T for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:00:50 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MFb83V057318; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MFb8rO057317; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:37:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from montage.altserver.com (montage.altserver.com [63.247.74.122]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MFb78d057311 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:37:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@utel.net) Received: from [82.251.119.93] (helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1CL1TZ-0004vY-Ay; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:37:09 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041022165326.046aa040@mail.utel.net> X-Sender: info+utel.net@mail.utel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:21:51 +0200 To: "Martin Stecher" , "OPES WG (E-mail)" From: jfcm Subject: RE: SMTP Use Cases In-Reply-To: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05F4@mail.webwasher.com> References: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05F4@mail.webwasher.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14647A19 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - imc.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - utel.net Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 At 16:28 22/10/2004, Martin Stecher wrote: >jfc, > > I do not see any of these examples (which are much needed) > > being an OPES. > > They are middlebox (RFC 3234) services. None of them are on the fly > > protocol add-on functions in a store and foreward system. > >RFC 3234 lists in the catalogue of middleboxes in section 2.10 >for example the Application Layer Firewall which an SMTP >client/server pair or a Web proxy agent. > >I think this example can help us to find the way from our >recent HTTP work to the SMTP work now. > >The SMTP client/server in the Application Layer Firewall is >the OPES processor in the OPES context that talks to a callout >server as before. > >While RFC 3234 lists protocol checks and other features that >ensure the validity of the application. Exactly what we expect >all the time from the OPES processor; that part is responsible >for sending valid SMTP (or HTTP) to its peer. > >Content adaptation is being done in the callout server in >an OPES scenario. > >If you disagree, what kind of SMTP use cases do you see for OPES? None. From the very begining I disagree with the scope of OPES which is very confuse to me. But this is an architecture problem (RFC 2775 says that in fact everything can be changed if needed ). The reason why is that I consider that what is named "edge" (in a Host centric network) is actually the "core" (in a user centric system) and that actually the functions performed by OPES are ONES functions (Open Network Extended Services). This may appear futile, but you then better understand that the performed services are Network Services (what is not possible in a dumb network - but reread RFC 2775 about this. This is why I refered to middleboxes which actually offer network embedded functions - but usually not (yet) coordinated). How can you otherwise consider MTA as an "edge" (UA OK, not MTA)? You also better understand that the OPES are real edge services (interface between the network and the application) and are to be services which adds to the protcol not to the exchange. In the case of HTTP we are in a direct relation so the confusion is less harming. In the mail store and forward exchange what you propose can be performed on the "store" part, while OPES should act on the protocol "forward" part. But then the problems are quite complex because when http is direct one-to-one SMPT is one-to-many over upto 5 days. jfc From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 12:20:28 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA17690 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL2ML-0001XV-MS for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:33:47 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MG96c6060298; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:09:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MG96Rp060297; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:09:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from measurement-factory.com (measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.5]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MG95Z9060283 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:09:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MG8sJ2099285; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:08:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) To: "Markus Hofmann" , "OPES WG (E-mail)" Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases References: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05E9@mail.webwasher.com> <41792126.20700@bell-labs.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:08:53 -0600 From: "Alex Rousskov" Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <41792126.20700@bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (FreeBSD, build 751) Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 2004/10/22 (MDT), wrote: > (Wished I had that service lats time I connected through dial-up and > received tons of PPT presentations in emails...) FWIW, good IMAP email clients already support that. Your use case still makes sense for thin clients and such, of course. Alex. From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 12:25:01 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18038 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL2QR-0001av-6m for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:38:20 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MGBk1V060596; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:11:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MGBkKd060595; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:11:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.rfburst.com (mail.esmartstart.com [66.119.143.50]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MGBksf060587 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:11:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ho@alum.mit.edu) Received: from portia ([66.119.143.202]) by mail.rfburst.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9MGBhP1007828 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:11:43 -0600 Message-Id: <200410221611.i9MGBhP1007828@mail.rfburst.com> From: "Hilarie Orman" To: "'OPES WG \(E-mail\)'" Subject: RE: SMTP Use Cases Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:11:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcS4Snhi5qag7vHvRbOvgBi+a0/zdQAA2dtA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <41792126.20700@bell-labs.com> X-esmartscan-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-esmartscan-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: ho@alum.mit.edu Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a technical reason for questioning whether or not OPES is the right thing for SMTP, and I believe Martin once gave me a reasonable answer, but I don't think it's ever been elucidated on this list. The question arises from SMTP being inherently store-and-forward, as Morin points out. Thus, one would think the the "natural" architecture for handling it would be for the OPES processor to simply run SMTP and forward the messages to an SMTP server where the "service enhancements" can be applied. That SMTP server can then forward the messages onward to the appropriate "vanilla" SMTP servers. So, why is OPES necessary? I believe that Martin told me that it would be much easier for developers to write OPES rules and modules for SMTP than to write them for SMTP directly, and I suppose that makes sense if OPES is deployed widely for HTTP and there is a base of developers skilled in that environment. Is that an accurate statement of the intent of the OPES/SMTP proponents? I think it would really help if we could agree on an answer to the basic question (above). Hilarie From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 12:26:19 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18177 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL2Rr-0001bv-Vw for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:39:38 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MGI8Uq061462; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:18:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MGI8GK061461; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:18:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.rfburst.com (mail.esmartstart.com [66.119.143.50]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MGI7eK061455 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:18:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ho@alum.mit.edu) Received: from portia ([66.119.143.202]) by mail.rfburst.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9MGI7P1008432 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:18:07 -0600 Message-Id: <200410221618.i9MGI7P1008432@mail.rfburst.com> From: "Hilarie Orman" To: "'OPES WG \(E-mail\)'" Subject: Authorization Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:18:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcS4Snhi5qag7vHvRbOvgBi+a0/zdQAB2IlQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <41792126.20700@bell-labs.com> X-esmartscan-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-esmartscan-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: ho@alum.mit.edu Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think all of the use cases are good, but I'd like to point out that there's already a significant problem with SMTP "enhancements". The ISP that provides my IP connectivity has severe email filters and they do not offer per user "customization". Their implicit, unwritten, use policy is "by using our services you agree to having us muck with your email in any way that pleases us." Thus, I have to pay for a second ISP in order to get email services without filtering. That ISP does, however, sometimes impose filtering even on "no filter" accounts, simply because their techs don't realize that such accounts exist. Recently the filtering caused me to be suspended from almost all IETF mailing lists. Fortunately, they lifted that particular filter when I talked to them about it; they'd forgotten it was there. My point in this anecdote is that because there is no required API for per account customization *by the customer* for SMTP filtering today, the overall utility of SMTP is, in my opinion, drastically reduced. This is why I think that defining the protocol that lets the user adjust the filtering rules is so important for SMTP. When we began this work, I thought that the per account customization for HTTP was very important, but not worth screaming about. In the intervening years HTTP has become more important to daily life, and I think the issue is as important as for SMTP. I would really like to see some ideas on how to get this specified and set into standards as we move forward with SMTP. Hilarie From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 13:04:53 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20854 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL33C-0002Jh-Nu for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:18:13 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MGu42o066413; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MGu4iL066411; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:56:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail2.webwasher.com (wwsmtp.webwasher.com [217.146.159.51]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MGu1Ad066386 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:56:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin.stecher@WEBWASHER.com) Received: from mail.WEBWASHER.COM [192.168.0.251] by mail2.webwasher.com id JLTWSNTY outgoing id JLTWSNTY; 22 Oct 2004 18:55:59 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: SMTP Use Cases Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:56:00 +0200 Message-ID: <75F7E67FC45F6744A7D328D41E35376D2A05FD@mail.webwasher.com> Thread-Topic: SMTP Use Cases Thread-Index: AcS4Snhi5qag7vHvRbOvgBi+a0/zdQAA2dtAAAIZxeA= From: "Martin Stecher" To: "OPES WG (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id i9MGu4Ad066401 Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Thus, one would think > the the "natural" architecture for handling it would be for the > OPES processor to simply run SMTP and forward the messages to > an SMTP server where the "service enhancements" can be applied. > That SMTP server can then forward the messages onward to the > appropriate > "vanilla" SMTP servers. So, why is OPES necessary? > > I believe that Martin told me that it would be much easier for > developers to write OPES rules and modules for SMTP than to > write them for SMTP directly, and I suppose that makes sense if > OPES is deployed widely for HTTP and there is a base of developers > skilled in that environment. Is that an accurate statement of > the intent of the OPES/SMTP proponents? Hilary, thank you very much for bringing this up again. You are right. Let's stick with the virus scanner use case as a prominent example: You can write an OPES callout service for HTTP virus scanning by using any virus scan SDK and you can easily rewrite this for SMTP and create an OPES callout server for SMTP messages as most virus scanners can already handle mail files and if not, you, the developer, are left with the task to write an email MIME section decoder to feed the virus scanner. But if you needed to write an SMTP server that does the AV scanner you would also need to implement these features: - Mail inbound/outbound queues - Open Relay avoidance strategy - Full RFC 2821 compliance - MX record resolution - Attack prevention mechanisms That's why I believe an OPES callout server is the much better place to to SMTP message adaptation than writing another SMTP server with additional functionality. Regards Martin P.S. I will be travelling for the next 8 days. Not sure when and how often I can connect to the Internet to follow up with this discussion From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 13:24:53 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA22484 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL3Mh-0002gC-Gu for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:38:12 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHDPL4068921; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:13:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MHDPkP068920; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:13:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from measurement-factory.com (measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.5]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHDOqq068913 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:13:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHDNJ2001844; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:13:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:13:22 -0600 To: "Hilarie Orman" , "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases References: <200410221611.i9MGBhP1007828@mail.rfburst.com> From: "Alex Rousskov" Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200410221611.i9MGBhP1007828@mail.rfburst.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (FreeBSD, build 751) Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 2004/10/22 (MDT), wrote: > There's a technical reason for questioning whether or not OPES > is the right thing for SMTP, and I believe Martin once gave me > a reasonable answer, but I don't think it's ever been elucidated > on this list. The question arises from SMTP being inherently > store-and-forward, as Morin points out. Thus, one would think > the the "natural" architecture for handling it would be for the > OPES processor to simply run SMTP and forward the messages to > an SMTP server where the "service enhancements" can be applied. > That SMTP server can then forward the messages onward to the appropriate > "vanilla" SMTP servers. So, why is OPES necessary? > > I believe that Martin told me that it would be much easier for > developers to write OPES rules and modules for SMTP than to > write them for SMTP directly, and I suppose that makes sense if > OPES is deployed widely for HTTP and there is a base of developers > skilled in that environment. Is that an accurate statement of > the intent of the OPES/SMTP proponents? I think it would really > help if we could agree on an answer to the basic question (above). The reason we want OPES is so that we can reuse many things common to content adaptation, regardless of the protocol that the content came from. We do not want to answer content integrity, men-in-the-middle, or rules questions from scratch for every new protocol. I may be repeating myself, but I still do not know how store-and-forward SMTP is different from whatever-you-want-to-call-it HTTP in the context of adapting content. Thus, for me, SMTP adaptation can be within OPES scope if HTTP adaptation is. Using your example above, exactly the same argument can be made for HTTP: why not forward the messages to an HTTP proxy where the "service enhancements" can be applied... Alex. From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 13:27:19 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA22709 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL3P3-0002jI-Qf for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:40:39 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHJbKG069980; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MHJbOZ069979; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:19:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from measurement-factory.com (measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.5]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHJaNH069973 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHJZJ2002120; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:19:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:19:35 -0600 To: "Hilarie Orman" , "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: Authorization References: <200410221618.i9MGI7P1008432@mail.rfburst.com> From: "Alex Rousskov" Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200410221618.i9MGI7P1008432@mail.rfburst.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (FreeBSD, build 751) Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 2004/10/22 (MDT), wrote: > When we began this work, I thought that the per account customization > for HTTP was very important, but not worth screaming about. In the > intervening years HTTP has become more important to daily life, and I > think the issue is as important as for SMTP. I would really like to > see some ideas on how to get this specified and set into standards > as we move forward with SMTP. I think this plays well with P rules or similar standard to express filtering rules. Most ISPs cannot offer rich customizations today because they would have to invest in a custom interface to support/maintain those customizations. If we give the world a common filtering language, the ISP can buy an off-the-shelf rules management tool and have users specify their preferences on the web (auto-converted to [P] rules that ISP's servers understand). Alex. From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 13:40:40 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA23575 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL3by-0002wc-7j for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:53:58 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHWN1h072381; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:32:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MHWN28072380; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:32:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHWLY0072362 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:32:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hofmann@bell-labs.com) Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (H-135-104-2-9.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by dirty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MHWNXJ001909 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com [135.180.160.8]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHWHdj038485 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [135.112.116.14] (biena.ho.lucent.com [135.112.116.14]) by bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHWHQD006694 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4179441D.3080606@bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:32:13 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases References: <200410221611.i9MGBhP1007828@mail.rfburst.com> In-Reply-To: <200410221611.i9MGBhP1007828@mail.rfburst.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hilarie Orman wrote: > There's a technical reason for questioning whether or not OPES > is the right thing for SMTP, and I believe Martin once gave me > a reasonable answer, but I don't think it's ever been elucidated > on this list. The question arises from SMTP being inherently > store-and-forward, as Morin points out. Thus, one would think > the the "natural" architecture for handling it would be for the > OPES processor to simply run SMTP and forward the messages to > an SMTP server where the "service enhancements" can be applied. > That SMTP server can then forward the messages onward to the appropriate > "vanilla" SMTP servers. So, why is OPES necessary? > > I believe that Martin told me that it would be much easier for > developers to write OPES rules and modules for SMTP than to > write them for SMTP directly, and I suppose that makes sense if > OPES is deployed widely for HTTP and there is a base of developers > skilled in that environment. Is that an accurate statement of > the intent of the OPES/SMTP proponents? I think it would really > help if we could agree on an answer to the basic question (above). Isn't an additional motivation that OPES allows you to forward partial application messages, i.e. only the parts needed by the callout server have to be forwarded (as opposed to the entire message)? -Markus From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 13:48:04 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA24183 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL3j7-000373-JI for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:01:22 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHeFoI073607; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:40:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MHeFej073606; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:40:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHeFe5073600 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:40:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hofmann@bell-labs.com) Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (H-135-104-2-9.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by dirty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MHeIXJ001941 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com [135.180.160.8]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHeDdj038626 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [135.112.116.14] (biena.ho.lucent.com [135.112.116.14]) by bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MHeDQD006849 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <417945F9.8060601@bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:40:09 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: Authorization References: <200410221618.i9MGI7P1008432@mail.rfburst.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex Rousskov wrote: >> When we began this work, I thought that the per account customization >> for HTTP was very important, but not worth screaming about. In the >> intervening years HTTP has become more important to daily life, and I >> think the issue is as important as for SMTP. I would really like to >> see some ideas on how to get this specified and set into standards >> as we move forward with SMTP. > > > I think this plays well with P rules or similar standard to express > filtering rules. > Most ISPs cannot offer rich customizations today because they would > have to invest in a custom interface to support/maintain those > customizations. If we give the world a common filtering language, the > ISP can buy an off-the-shelf rules management tool and have users > specify their preferences on the web (auto-converted to [P] rules that > ISP's servers understand). Agree. But that's what the email world has 'sieve' for. So we want to be careful to not re-invent the wheel (that's why Tony was suggesting to first compare 'sieve' to what we intend to do with 'P'). My email provider actually let's me specify 'sieve' rules, using either an "advanced" interface where I can put in my sieve rules in ascii, or via kind of a "wizard" interface. Hilarie re-emphasized an important point, we want to keep that in mind. -Markus From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 14:21:23 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA26611 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL4FM-0003iH-68 for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:34:41 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MID2UE078213; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:13:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MID2Lq078212; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:13:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com [47.129.242.56]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MID1PN078189 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:13:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abbieb@nortelnetworks.com) Received: from zrtpd0jn.us.nortel.com (zrtpd0jn.us.nortel.com [47.140.202.35]) by zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i9MICm414736; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zrtpd0jn.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:12:49 -0400 Message-ID: <87AC5F88F03E6249AEA68D40BD3E00BE01D99A83@zcarhxm2.corp.nortel.com> From: "Abbie Barbir" To: Alex Rousskov , Markus Hofmann Cc: OPES Group Subject: RE: Another Update Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:15:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4B862.B8798D60" Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 200d029292fbb60d25b263122ced50fc This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B862.B8798D60 Content-Type: text/plain All, I will not be attending this comming IETF. I can help with slides if needed. Comapring sieve vs P is a good idea. However, the results should be compared to a set of requirements. This actually begs the question (that I have raised in the last meeting) do we need a requirement document or not? I will read Sieve over the weekend and I am looking forward to Alex comaprisons. Abbie > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Alex Rousskov > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 12:14 AM > To: Markus Hofmann > Cc: OPES Group > Subject: Re: Another Update > > > > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Markus Hofmann wrote: > > > if there is no interest to continue the work with a new charter, we > > should withdraw our new charter proposal and close the WG. > > > > If there's an interest to continue, we need a discussion on > this list > > to get the work going. AND - we need folks willing to put > in the time > > and effort to drive the work forward. > > Markus, > > I will review Sieve and do a P-versus-Sieve comparison, > hopefully by Tuesday. Since I am not attending IETF-wide > meetings, I do > not have strong preferences regarding the agenda. > > Thanks, > > Alex. > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B862.B8798D60 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Another Update

    All,

    I will not be attending this comming IETF. I can help = with slides if needed.

    Comapring sieve vs P is a good idea. However, the = results should be compared to a set of requirements.

    This actually begs the question (that I have raised = in the last meeting) do we need a requirement document or not?

    I will read Sieve over the weekend and I am looking = forward to Alex comaprisons.

    Abbie
     

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org
    > [mailto:owner-ietf-open= proxy@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Alex Rousskov
    > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 12:14 AM
    > To: Markus Hofmann
    > Cc: OPES Group
    > Subject: Re: Another Update
    >
    >
    >
    > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Markus Hofmann = wrote:
    >
    > > if there is no interest to continue the = work with a new charter, we
    > > should withdraw our new charter proposal = and close the WG.
    > >
    > > If there's an interest to continue, we = need a discussion on
    > this list
    > > to get the work going. AND - we need folks = willing to put
    > in the time
    > > and effort to drive the work = forward.
    >
    > Markus,
    >
    >       I will review = Sieve and do a P-versus-Sieve comparison,
    > hopefully by Tuesday. Since I am not attending = IETF-wide
    > meetings, I do
    > not have strong preferences regarding the = agenda.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Alex.
    >
    >
    >

    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B862.B8798D60-- From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 19:58:33 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15046 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CL9VO-00017t-9e for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:11:55 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MNn9Zp042692; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:49:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9MNn95N042691; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:49:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.rfburst.com (mail.esmartstart.com [66.119.143.50]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9MNn8sP042684 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:49:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ho@alum.mit.edu) Received: from portia ([66.119.143.202]) by mail.rfburst.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9MNn9P1024217 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:49:09 -0600 Message-Id: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> From: "Hilarie Orman" To: "'OPES WG \(E-mail\)'" Subject: RE: SMTP Use Cases Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:49:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcS4XRLLT1ec1mvnSHCQBs3ryn6PeQAM1QYw In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-esmartscan-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-esmartscan-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: ho@alum.mit.edu Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HTTP never had a store-and-forward protocol architecture, so all the proxy stuff got tacked on. SMTP dealt with it from the beginning and already addressed the problems of MITM, tracing, etc. It is, in fact, the strawman reference model for much of our OPES discussion. There's an odd recursive aspect to applying OPES to SMTP, and I think it is important to clarify why SMTP will benefit from OPES, sort of like asking why one's grandparents should buy their clothes at Banana Republic (whatever). Hilarie -----Snippet of Original Message----- From: Alex Rousskov Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:13 AM Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases I may be repeating myself, but I still do not know how store-and-forward SMTP is different from whatever-you-want-to-call-it HTTP in the context of adapting content. Thus, for me, SMTP adaptation can be within OPES scope if HTTP adaptation is. Using your example above, exactly the same argument can be made for HTTP: why not forward the messages to an HTTP proxy where the "service enhancements" can be applied... Alex. From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 22:12:48 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA27644 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLBbV-0003Ea-Fw for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:26:12 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N1wUP3066065; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:58:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9N1wUFC066064; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:58:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from montage.altserver.com (montage.altserver.com [63.247.74.122]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N1wTGW066058 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@utel.net) Received: from [82.251.119.93] (helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1CLBAw-0007av-47; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:58:35 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023021701.0449e440@mail.utel.net> X-Sender: info+utel.net@mail.utel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 02:52:38 +0200 To: "Hilarie Orman" , "'OPES WG \(E-mail\)'" From: jfcm Subject: RE: SMTP Use Cases In-Reply-To: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> References: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14647A19 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - imc.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - utel.net Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac I think we will never get Alex understand the problem. What he sees is an action on a message. Not the scope of that action. It is true that whatever the protocol a message (in one or several datagrams) is massaged like in any middlebox. The difference is thatit is not massage at the middlebox but at a distant server. The important action is the massaging (filtering, protocol to the server, update). Martin in the SMTP case see the things the same way. I see the same thing, but in an architectural way. Either the idea is to stop having too many middleboxes and to keep the network intelligence at the edge, so the architectural end to end and dumb network/smart hosts can be protected. This is the IAB idea and we have to be very tought on the OPES definition as an "edge" service. Or we do not mind IAB, we address the need and we extend RFC 3234 with networked middleboxes (I recall that middleboxes can be virtual, so the filter of an OPES is a midlebox). 1. if we talk about OPES. there may be knowledge of the OPES action by the ends, but no dialog with both. In the case of an a-synchornous service multicast such as SMTP the only end to be informed is the nearest end. Also, by no means OPES can be on an MTA, only on UAs because the MTA by nature is not at the edge of the network. OPES can only be on the edge traffic. Not on the stored nor on inner network traffic. 2. if we talk of remote server supported middleboxes, we are totally free to do what we want. But these are no more OPES but ONES. This means Open Network Extended Services. We are then introducing intelligence within the network, what I _fully_ support, but which is far, far more complex to document. May I remind you RFC 2775: there is no objection to change everything in the network vision (and I DO think this necessary and urgent if we want to address the IAB concerns on Internet future) but this is another issue and I doubt this WG has the right people to engage a total rebuild of the Internet. I can only repeat that the proposed examples are fine as services, not as OPES they are not. Also, that the new charter does not make any technical sense to me. Because OPES are at users plug and the work you want them to provide is at the power plant. Or we decide that the architecture is end-to-mailserver + mailserver-to-end. The mail server is then an edge. But who is in control? Not the receiving end but the ISP mailserver manager. And we fall back in the situation described by Markus.... jfc At 01:49 23/10/2004, Hilarie Orman wrote: >HTTP never had a store-and-forward protocol architecture, so all >the proxy stuff got tacked on. SMTP dealt with it from the beginning >and already addressed the problems of MITM, tracing, etc. It is, >in fact, the strawman reference model for much of our OPES discussion. > >There's an odd recursive aspect to applying OPES to SMTP, and I think >it is important to clarify why SMTP will benefit from OPES, sort of >like asking why one's grandparents should buy their clothes at >Banana Republic (whatever). > >Hilarie > > >-----Snippet of Original Message----- >From: Alex Rousskov >Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:13 AM >Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases > >I may be repeating myself, but I still do not know how store-and-forward >SMTP is different from whatever-you-want-to-call-it HTTP in the context of >adapting content. Thus, for me, SMTP adaptation can be within OPES scope >if HTTP adaptation is. Using your example above, exactly the same argument >can be made for HTTP: why not forward the messages to an HTTP proxy where >the "service enhancements" can be applied... > >Alex. From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 22:35:37 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA05613 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLBxk-0003ay-IQ for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:49:01 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N2Qkxw071433; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:26:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9N2QklM071432; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:26:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N2QjtM071386 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:26:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markus@mhof.com) Received: from [10.0.0.10] (pcp04238594pcs.eatntn01.nj.comcast.net[68.83.187.201]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <20041023022633011008bokoe> (Authid: mhofmann); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 02:26:34 +0000 Message-ID: <4179C16F.8050407@mhof.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:26:55 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases References: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> In-Reply-To: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hilarie Orman wrote: > There's an odd recursive aspect to applying OPES to SMTP, and I think > it is important to clarify why SMTP will benefit from OPES, As I mentioned before - with OPES you can send parts of an applications message to the callout server, you're not forced to send the entire message. With SMTP, you would always have to sens the entire message. LEss efficient. Do I miss anything here? Plus the additional - deployment/implementation specific - benefits Martin and Alex mentioned. -Markus From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 22 23:54:38 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA09211 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLDCD-0004pb-HZ for opes-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:08:02 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N3jICo087324; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9N3jICD087322; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:45:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from measurement-factory.com (measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.5]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N3jHJA087312 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: from measurement-factory.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N3jMJ2029813; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: (from rousskov@localhost) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id i9N3jMYR029812; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:45:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Alex Rousskov To: Markus Hofmann cc: "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases In-Reply-To: <4179C16F.8050407@mhof.com> Message-ID: <20041022213308.G29145@measurement-factory.com> References: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> <4179C16F.8050407@mhof.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Markus Hofmann wrote: > Hilarie Orman wrote: > >> There's an odd recursive aspect to applying OPES to SMTP, and I think >> it is important to clarify why SMTP will benefit from OPES, > > As I mentioned before - with OPES you can send parts of an applications > message to the callout server, you're not forced to send the entire message. > With SMTP, you would always have to sens the entire message. LEss efficient. > Do I miss anything here? With SMTP, the adaptation box must know and speak SMTP. With OPES, the adaptation box must know and speak some OCP profile. OCP is designed for adaptations. SMTP is not. And the adaptation box does not have to learn new protocols to adapt messages they carry. One would not have to build a FooBar adaptation box to adapt FooBar protocol; with some lack, the old adaptation box can be used as-is. Partial message adaptation is a side-effect. You are simply talking about an OCP profile that defines "content" in such a way that partial SMTP adaptation becomes possible. With some luck, partial HTTP adaptation may be possible with the same or very similar profile. OPES makes some sense when we look at one application protocol in isolation (e.g., HTTP or SMTP). That's why ICAP is still alive. However, OPES true power is adaptation of multiple application protocols with little extra effort. That is, it scales with the number of application protocols. That scale is what current ICAP vendors struggle with. Alex. From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Sat Oct 23 00:01:29 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA09790 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLDIr-0004x2-Jp for opes-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:14:54 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N3qHQG088645; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:52:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9N3qHRH088644; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:52:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from measurement-factory.com (measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.5]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N3qGu8088638 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:52:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: from measurement-factory.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9N3qKJ2030245; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:52:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: (from rousskov@localhost) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id i9N3qKdu030244; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:52:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:52:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Alex Rousskov To: jfcm cc: Hilarie Orman , "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: SMTP Use Cases In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023021701.0449e440@mail.utel.net> Message-ID: <20041022214612.C29145@measurement-factory.com> References: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041023021701.0449e440@mail.utel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 Jfc, Since I cannot understand your objections, despite multiple serious attempts to do so, my suggestion would be for you to forward your new-charter-makes-no-sense objections to IESG. If IESG understands and agrees with your position, they might be able to explain it in a way that I can comprehend in order to help with fixing the charter. If not, we would not have to come back to this until the next charter revision. Alex. On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, jfcm wrote: > > I think we will never get Alex understand the problem. What he sees is an > action on a message. Not the scope of that action. It is true that whatever > the protocol a message (in one or several datagrams) is massaged like in any > middlebox. The difference is thatit is not massage at the middlebox but at a > distant server. The important action is the massaging (filtering, protocol to > the server, update). Martin in the SMTP case see the things the same way. > > I see the same thing, but in an architectural way. Either the idea is to stop > having too many middleboxes and to keep the network intelligence at the edge, > so the architectural end to end and dumb network/smart hosts can be > protected. This is the IAB idea and we have to be very tought on the OPES > definition as an "edge" service. Or we do not mind IAB, we address the need > and we extend RFC 3234 with networked middleboxes (I recall that middleboxes > can be virtual, so the filter of an OPES is a midlebox). > > 1. if we talk about OPES. there may be knowledge of the OPES action by the > ends, but no dialog with both. In the case of an a-synchornous service > multicast such as SMTP the only end to be informed is the nearest end. Also, > by no means OPES can be on an MTA, only on UAs because the MTA by nature is > not at the edge of the network. OPES can only be on the edge traffic. Not on > the stored nor on inner network traffic. > > 2. if we talk of remote server supported middleboxes, we are totally free to > do what we want. But these are no more OPES but ONES. This means Open Network > Extended Services. We are then introducing intelligence within the network, > what I _fully_ support, but which is far, far more complex to document. May I > remind you RFC 2775: there is no objection to change everything in the > network vision (and I DO think this necessary and urgent if we want to > address the IAB concerns on Internet future) but this is another issue and I > doubt this WG has the right people to engage a total rebuild of the Internet. > > I can only repeat that the proposed examples are fine as services, not as > OPES they are not. Also, that the new charter does not make any technical > sense to me. Because OPES are at users plug and the work you want them to > provide is at the power plant. > > Or we decide that the architecture is end-to-mailserver + mailserver-to-end. > The mail server is then an edge. But who is in control? Not the receiving end > but the ISP mailserver manager. And we fall back in the situation described > by Markus.... > jfc > > > At 01:49 23/10/2004, Hilarie Orman wrote: > > > >> HTTP never had a store-and-forward protocol architecture, so all >> the proxy stuff got tacked on. SMTP dealt with it from the beginning >> and already addressed the problems of MITM, tracing, etc. It is, >> in fact, the strawman reference model for much of our OPES discussion. >> >> There's an odd recursive aspect to applying OPES to SMTP, and I think >> it is important to clarify why SMTP will benefit from OPES, sort of >> like asking why one's grandparents should buy their clothes at >> Banana Republic (whatever). >> >> Hilarie >> >> >> -----Snippet of Original Message----- >> From: Alex Rousskov >> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:13 AM >> Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases >> >> I may be repeating myself, but I still do not know how store-and-forward >> SMTP is different from whatever-you-want-to-call-it HTTP in the context of >> adapting content. Thus, for me, SMTP adaptation can be within OPES scope >> if HTTP adaptation is. Using your example above, exactly the same argument >> can be made for HTTP: why not forward the messages to an HTTP proxy where >> the "service enhancements" can be applied... >> >> Alex. > > From qxnkecbdxiqgov@yahoo.com Sat Oct 23 07:16:03 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA17045; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLK5T-00036f-MA; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:29:32 -0400 Received: from p1180-ipad01kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp ([61.126.142.181]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CLJsR-0007JR-3F; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:16:04 -0400 Received: from 80.44.141.18 (EHLO mta1.primary.ddc.dartmail.net) (95.128.96.214) by mta152.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:24:21 -0700 Received: from info.4sure.com (172.200.215.88) by mta1.primary.ddc.dartmail.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 15:23:40 -0400 Received: by 43.52.230.7 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:23:38 -0400 (EDT) X-MID: Message-Id: From: "Milford Gustafson" Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410031406.i93GdfTw004723@www0.gmail.com> To: opes-archive@ietf.org, p2prg@ietf.org, p2prg-admin@ietf.org, p2prg-request@ietf.org, pana@ietf.org, pana-admin@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Hi again, Here is Milford Gustafson. I write to you because we are accepting your mo= rtgage application. Our office confirms you can get a $220.000 lo=C0n for a $252.00 per month = payment. Approval process will take 1 minute, so please fill out the form on our we= bsite: http://locksmith-among.refi-talk.com Thank you. Best Regards Milford Gustafson First Account Manager From odceouq@yahoo.com Sat Oct 23 08:20:12 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21471; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLL5X-0004Dl-4o; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:33:41 -0400 Received: from [222.234.112.48] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CLKsT-0000nC-Pd; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:20:10 -0400 Received: from 133.144.1.176 (EHLO mta1.primary.ddc.dartmail.net) (32.240.104.94) by mta152.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:24:21 -0700 Received: from info.4sure.com (162.132.152.50) by mta1.primary.ddc.dartmail.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 15:23:40 -0400 Received: by 97.192.224.135 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:23:38 -0400 (EDT) X-MID: Message-Id: From: "Darcy Cornell" Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410031477.i93ZkwTw001282@www6.gmail.com> To: bmwg-request@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, p2prg@ietf.org, p2prg-admin@ietf.org, p2prg-request@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; X-Spam-Score: 7.6 (+++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Hi again, Here is Darcy Cornell. I write to you because we are accepting your mortga= ge application. Our office confirms you can get a $220.000 lo=C0n for a $252.00 per month = payment. Approval process will take 1 minute, so please fill out the form on our we= bsite: http://featherbed-bisque.refi-talk.com Thank you. Best Regards Darcy Cornell First Account Manager From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Sat Oct 23 11:48:11 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03116 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLOKt-0007TY-VF for opes-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:01:44 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9NFaegF092572; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9NFaeHK092571; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:36:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from montage.altserver.com (montage.altserver.com [63.247.74.122]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9NFae2K092563 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@utel.net) Received: from [82.251.119.93] (helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1CLNwd-000839-HC; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:36:40 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023045129.03c9f710@mail.utel.net> X-Sender: info+utel.net@mail.utel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:36:15 +0200 To: Markus Hofmann , "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" From: jfcm Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases In-Reply-To: <4179C16F.8050407@mhof.com> References: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> <4179C16F.8050407@mhof.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14647A19 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - imc.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - utel.net Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by above.proper.com id i9NFaegF092572 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 04:26 23/10/2004, Markus Hofmann wrote: >Hilarie Orman wrote: > >>There's an odd recursive aspect to applying OPES to SMTP, and I think >>it is important to clarify why SMTP will benefit from OPES, > >As I mentioned before - with OPES you can send parts of an applications=20 >message to the callout server, you're not forced to send the entire=20 >message. With SMTP, you would always have to sens the entire message. LE= ss=20 >efficient. Do I miss anything here? Dear Markus, I am sorry but "I" miss something here. - what has SMTP to do with this. SMTP has no callout server so there is n= o=20 way it can send parts or the whole message to a callout server. - I suppose that what you mean is the that callout server may work on par= ts=20 of the content while most of the "value added" MTA systems would work on=20 the complete content. I do not see the added interest. Please remember th= at=20 SMTP permit many MTA to be involved on an traffic load balancing approach= .=20 Far more efficient to work on a local content than to send and receive it. Your proposed OPES is a sendmail, postfix, qmail etc. front-end adding to= =20 their management complexity. Frankly I prefer developping a postfix modul= e=20 or even to try to understand the qmail license and patch system or to see= =20 what can be done with sendmail than to add management complexity ... All=20 the more than spam (which is an architectural problem) will only be solve= d=20 by an architectural solution, and since spam is a by-product of=20 TCP/IP=A8+SMTP complexity, one will most probably find its solution in=20 simplification (please reread RFC 2775 on architecture) simplicity is of=20 the essence. I dont say that you are wrong with your examples, services, OPES interest= ,=20 but that there is confusion and that you confuse protocol and content=20 massaging, synchronous and asynchronous processes, Host and users etc. an= d=20 that in some way you are right. But we need to know in which context we a= re=20 : in RTF 2775 context or in a RFD 2775 new permitted architectural contex= t=20 - and then which one. To be modelized and documented. jfc >Plus the additional - deployment/implementation specific - benefits Mart= in=20 >and Alex mentioned. > >-Markus > > > From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Sat Oct 23 11:48:14 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03135 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLOKm-0007TV-Ce for opes-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:01:47 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9NFanla092611; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:36:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9NFan8J092610; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:36:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from montage.altserver.com (montage.altserver.com [63.247.74.122]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9NFalJL092602 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@utel.net) Received: from [82.251.119.93] (helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1CLNwf-000839-1u; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:36:47 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023130454.04501bc0@mail.utel.net> X-Sender: info+utel.net@mail.utel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:52:22 +0200 To: Alex Rousskov From: jfcm Subject: RE: SMTP Use Cases Cc: Hilarie Orman , "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" In-Reply-To: <20041022214612.C29145@measurement-factory.com> References: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041023021701.0449e440@mail.utel.net> <20041022214612.C29145@measurement-factory.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14647A19 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - imc.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - utel.net Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8041eca2a724d631b098c15e9048ce9 Alex, I know that you do not understand. From the very beginning your vision of an OPES is the vision of a front-end middlebox with an OCP link to a remote server. You just explained this: the interest of that middlebox is that it can easily be adapted to any protocol. This vision is of real interest to patch protocols and to implement transitions. But it permits much more if used in a proper architectural way. Now, you are able to understand that if what you work on is to be used in an architectural dead-end - whatever the cosmetic in describing it - you will waste your time and efforts. So the question is of importance to you. Right now IETF is trying to understand if they are in such an architectural dead-end or not. This is plainly documented in the IAB RFC 3869 published a few weeks ago. This is plainly documented in IETF RFCs on IETF situation. This is plainly documented in the IETF debates initiated by Harald Alvestrand. This was plainly documented through ICANN early warning problem two years ago. This was plainly documented in the new economy quick blundering. This is plainly documented in the WSIS resolutions calling on Koffi Annan's experts. Always in the same way: a partial list of problems without ever considering the deliveries, the call for help to people they do not want (money and Gov), the lack of understanding of what would trigger a positive response (that deliveries would match real needs). The IAB documents the internet problems in RFC 3869: the lack of vision, of motivation and of funding for R&D. It also gives the reasons why: through what is missing in their document (they do not even allude to mutilingualism, to user or market demand). The real internet problem is an host centric architecture which does not respond the real world needs. The real needs and interest are usage centric. The IAB is clear about it: it identifies global access to information (host application) as THE internet service. This is a 1971 need (first commercial ISP bill in Feb. 1971). There is a very long that network marketers and service developpers know this is far more complex. Users also want services and full control. But how IETF will know it without market study? The IETF is producing Ford-T cars and meets some difficulties about organizing, funding, recruiting. At the present time it tries to understand how to best organize, get funding, motivate its members. Sometimes they will consider producing Mustang cars. This is why there is a drop in R&D and funding, why IETF audience and money drop, why Stuart Lynn had to call on Govs for ICANN, why IAB now calls on Govs for R&D, why WSIS calls on Govs for an Internet governance review (please read RFC on IETF problems). For two centuries the world has used Gov control/monopolies. The web has made believe that we could use Internet's free datagram du to the lack of State protected economical model. This has initially worked because the USG warranted it, but its interest is not in warranting and funding the world's system (the WSIS has two problems: world system's governance and funding). The loss of interest comes from the fact that no one sees big return from investing in the internet architecture. Only bandwidth value added people who see some saving while their revenues and margins drop. This is the reason of the new economy failure. This is the reason why no one will fund you for developing OCP. This is the reason why the WG loses momentum while it works on a real key issue. The searchers and investors question is really simple "what for?". Some have understood the solution. Many have understood how to look for it (please reread RFC 2775). Once again, what is concerned is not OCP, but where and how to use it. I am not interested in documenting this to IESG. We made the diagnosis nearly 20 years ago from our real life commercial success. We documented the architectural reasons of such a success. At the time we were the world leader (Tymnet) when we were poorly purchased. We quitted and disbanded. I can tell you exactly how and when our world lost 30 years. And the 1987 evening when we evaluated that there was no interest in wasting time to document the young IETF because real world and academic life, vision and budgets are so apart. The interest is that these 20 years permitted to validate and to deep our vision (through some huge success as M$ which partly used it, or some evolution such as the drop in bandwidth cost and ubiquity, but mostly in observing the problems met by OSI and then by the Internet - and the way they try to patch them, as with OPES). This is lame. Either you understand it and the opportunity is huge, or you do not want to accept it and you waste your time and energy. Now, with the currently coming appliances hardware and FCC/Govs growing communication attitude, the future internet is at hand. It may not come from IETF nor from GPL etc. It may come from an US start-up, from a Major's understanding of the real musical market and economical model, it can come from an European workshop, it can come from a Chinese manufacturers consensus, or from an Indian engineers venture. Probably after a major collapse over a DoS, a DNS failure, a spam growth, a brilliant physing, or a real life catastrophe as Richard Clarke foresaw it, a big digital terrorist attack or a Govs fed-up at the ASCII internet US nexus (please note that I invent nothing. All this is fully documented in RFCs and in USG documents). All this will lead to competition in solutions, hence to a balkanization of the Internet (cf. Paul Vixie on the IETF general mailing list over IPv9 Chinese testing). This is why the only solution IMHO is to document Govs about the real life threats, imply them in solutions and demonstrate through real working system solutions. In that future Internet, a distributed ubiquity of smart stand alone smart multi services $ 100 nodes over a continuity of various types of bandwidths by coopeting large concentrated operators (look at FCC policy) at a global $ 15 cost per month, the protocol will probably progressively switch from IP to something better (but compatibility will have to be maintained for a while) managed by a secure and versatile simple inter-user network operating system. OCP could be a good embryo of such an OS internal protocol. jfc At 05:52 23/10/2004, Alex Rousskov wrote: >Jfc, > > Since I cannot understand your objections, despite multiple > serious attempts to do so, my suggestion would be for you to forward your > new-charter-makes-no-sense objections to IESG. If IESG understands and > agrees with your position, they might be able to explain it in a way that > I can comprehend in order to help with fixing the charter. If not, we > would not have to come back to this until the next charter revision. > >Alex. > >On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, jfcm wrote: > >> >>I think we will never get Alex understand the problem. What he sees is an >>action on a message. Not the scope of that action. It is true that >>whatever the protocol a message (in one or several datagrams) is massaged >>like in any middlebox. The difference is thatit is not massage at the >>middlebox but at a distant server. The important action is the massaging >>(filtering, protocol to the server, update). Martin in the SMTP case see >>the things the same way. >> >>I see the same thing, but in an architectural way. Either the idea is to >>stop having too many middleboxes and to keep the network intelligence at >>the edge, so the architectural end to end and dumb network/smart hosts >>can be protected. This is the IAB idea and we have to be very tought on >>the OPES definition as an "edge" service. Or we do not mind IAB, we >>address the need and we extend RFC 3234 with networked middleboxes (I >>recall that middleboxes can be virtual, so the filter of an OPES is a >>midlebox). >> >>1. if we talk about OPES. there may be knowledge of the OPES action by >>the ends, but no dialog with both. In the case of an a-synchornous >>service multicast such as SMTP the only end to be informed is the nearest >>end. Also, by no means OPES can be on an MTA, only on UAs because the MTA >>by nature is not at the edge of the network. OPES can only be on the edge >>traffic. Not on the stored nor on inner network traffic. >> >>2. if we talk of remote server supported middleboxes, we are totally free >>to do what we want. But these are no more OPES but ONES. This means Open >>Network Extended Services. We are then introducing intelligence within >>the network, what I _fully_ support, but which is far, far more complex >>to document. May I remind you RFC 2775: there is no objection to change >>everything in the network vision (and I DO think this necessary and >>urgent if we want to address the IAB concerns on Internet future) but >>this is another issue and I doubt this WG has the right people to engage >>a total rebuild of the Internet. >> >>I can only repeat that the proposed examples are fine as services, not as >>OPES they are not. Also, that the new charter does not make any technical >>sense to me. Because OPES are at users plug and the work you want them to >>provide is at the power plant. >> >>Or we decide that the architecture is end-to-mailserver + >>mailserver-to-end. The mail server is then an edge. But who is in >>control? Not the receiving end but the ISP mailserver manager. And we >>fall back in the situation described by Markus.... >>jfc >> >> >>At 01:49 23/10/2004, Hilarie Orman wrote: >> >> >> >>>HTTP never had a store-and-forward protocol architecture, so all >>>the proxy stuff got tacked on. SMTP dealt with it from the beginning >>>and already addressed the problems of MITM, tracing, etc. It is, >>>in fact, the strawman reference model for much of our OPES discussion. >>>There's an odd recursive aspect to applying OPES to SMTP, and I think >>>it is important to clarify why SMTP will benefit from OPES, sort of >>>like asking why one's grandparents should buy their clothes at >>>Banana Republic (whatever). >>>Hilarie >>> >>>-----Snippet of Original Message----- >>>From: Alex Rousskov >>>Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:13 AM >>>Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases >>>I may be repeating myself, but I still do not know how store-and-forward >>>SMTP is different from whatever-you-want-to-call-it HTTP in the context of >>>adapting content. Thus, for me, SMTP adaptation can be within OPES scope >>>if HTTP adaptation is. Using your example above, exactly the same argument >>>can be made for HTTP: why not forward the messages to an HTTP proxy where >>>the "service enhancements" can be applied... >>>Alex. >> > > > From jxvnkhzt@yahoo.com Sat Oct 23 12:05:19 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05007; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410231605.MAA05007@ietf.org> Received: from ol214-60.fibertel.com.ar ([24.232.60.214]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLObQ-0007md-IJ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:18:51 -0400 Received: from 240.200.32.0 by 24.232.60.214; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:56:05 +0600 Reply-To: "Donovan Welch" From: "Donovan Welch" To: nsis-admin@ietf.org Subject: You Need This Nsis-admin PID: 7 caravan Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:57:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--9179316866426018360" X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ----9179316866426018360 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Buy Med's 0n-line! 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No rem0val are re qui-red DNQKgQYSnqwwUeJAtygTnOpeOmrmFWpQXVLa ----9179316866426018360-- From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Sat Oct 23 12:31:03 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07540 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLP0O-0008Gz-6v for opes-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:44:37 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9NGLcJP004316; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9NGLcaU004315; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9NGLbdu004286 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:21:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markus@mhof.com) Received: from [10.0.0.10] (pcp04238594pcs.eatntn01.nj.comcast.net[68.83.187.201]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004102316212801200h4k36e> (Authid: mhofmann); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:21:32 +0000 Message-ID: <417A851F.50606@mhof.com> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:21:51 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'OPES WG (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases References: <200410222349.i9MNn9P1024217@mail.rfburst.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041023021701.0449e440@mail.utel.net> <20041022214612.C29145@measurement-factory.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041023130454.04501bc0@mail.utel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023130454.04501bc0@mail.utel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8a85b14f27c9dcbe0719e27d46abc1f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The OPES WG mailing list is *not* the place to discuss fundamental architecture/design issues of the general Internet and how the general Internet should evolve. While these discussions are important, interesting and (sometimes) fun, please move them to the general IETF mailing list. OPES scope and architecture have been discussed a while ago and are documented in the respective RFCs and our charter. Discussions on this mailing list will be within these boundaries. More general and fundamental discussions should be move to more approriate places. Thanks, Markus jfcm wrote: > > Alex, > I know that you do not understand. From the very beginning your vision > of an OPES is the vision of a front-end middlebox with an OCP link to a > remote server. You just explained this: the interest of that middlebox > is that it can easily be adapted to any protocol. This vision is of real > interest to patch protocols and to implement transitions. But it permits > much more if used in a proper architectural way. > > Now, you are able to understand that if what you work on is to be used > in an architectural dead-end - whatever the cosmetic in describing it - > you will waste your time and efforts. So the question is of importance > to you. > > Right now IETF is trying to understand if they are in such an > architectural dead-end or not. This is plainly documented in the IAB RFC > 3869 published a few weeks ago. This is plainly documented in IETF RFCs > on IETF situation. This is plainly documented in the IETF debates > initiated by Harald Alvestrand. This was plainly documented through > ICANN early warning problem two years ago. This was plainly documented > in the new economy quick blundering. This is plainly documented in the > WSIS resolutions calling on Koffi Annan's experts. Always in the same > way: a partial list of problems without ever considering the > deliveries, the call for help to people they do not want (money and > Gov), the lack of understanding of what would trigger a positive > response (that deliveries would match real needs). > > The IAB documents the internet problems in RFC 3869: the lack of vision, > of motivation and of funding for R&D. It also gives the reasons why: > through what is missing in their document (they do not even allude to > mutilingualism, to user or market demand). The real internet problem is > an host centric architecture which does not respond the real world > needs. The real needs and interest are usage centric. The IAB is clear > about it: it identifies global access to information (host application) > as THE internet service. This is a 1971 need (first commercial ISP bill > in Feb. 1971). There is a very long that network marketers and service > developpers know this is far more complex. Users also want services and > full control. But how IETF will know it without market study? The IETF > is producing Ford-T cars and meets some difficulties about organizing, > funding, recruiting. At the present time it tries to understand how to > best organize, get funding, motivate its members. Sometimes they will > consider producing Mustang cars. > > This is why there is a drop in R&D and funding, why IETF audience and > money drop, why Stuart Lynn had to call on Govs for ICANN, why IAB now > calls on Govs for R&D, why WSIS calls on Govs for an Internet governance > review (please read RFC on IETF problems). For two centuries the world > has used Gov control/monopolies. The web has made believe that we could > use Internet's free datagram du to the lack of State protected > economical model. This has initially worked because the USG warranted > it, but its interest is not in warranting and funding the world's system > (the WSIS has two problems: world system's governance and funding). > > The loss of interest comes from the fact that no one sees big return > from investing in the internet architecture. Only bandwidth value added > people who see some saving while their revenues and margins drop. This > is the reason of the new economy failure. This is the reason why no one > will fund you for developing OCP. This is the reason why the WG loses > momentum while it works on a real key issue. The searchers and investors > question is really simple "what for?". > > Some have understood the solution. Many have understood how to look for > it (please reread RFC 2775). > > Once again, what is concerned is not OCP, but where and how to use it. > > I am not interested in documenting this to IESG. We made the diagnosis > nearly 20 years ago from our real life commercial success. We documented > the architectural reasons of such a success. At the time we were the > world leader (Tymnet) when we were poorly purchased. We quitted and > disbanded. I can tell you exactly how and when our world lost 30 years. > And the 1987 evening when we evaluated that there was no interest in > wasting time to document the young IETF because real world and academic > life, vision and budgets are so apart. The interest is that these 20 > years permitted to validate and to deep our vision (through some huge > success as M$ which partly used it, or some evolution such as the drop > in bandwidth cost and ubiquity, but mostly in observing the problems met > by OSI and then by the Internet - and the way they try to patch them, as > with OPES). This is lame. Either you understand it and the opportunity > is huge, or you do not want to accept it and you waste your time and > energy. > > Now, with the currently coming appliances hardware and FCC/Govs growing > communication attitude, the future internet is at hand. It may not come > from IETF nor from GPL etc. It may come from an US start-up, from a > Major's understanding of the real musical market and economical model, > it can come from an European workshop, it can come from a Chinese > manufacturers consensus, or from an Indian engineers venture. Probably > after a major collapse over a DoS, a DNS failure, a spam growth, a > brilliant physing, or a real life catastrophe as Richard Clarke foresaw > it, a big digital terrorist attack or a Govs fed-up at the ASCII > internet US nexus (please note that I invent nothing. All this is fully > documented in RFCs and in USG documents). All this will lead to > competition in solutions, hence to a balkanization of the Internet (cf. > Paul Vixie on the IETF general mailing list over IPv9 Chinese testing). > This is why the only solution IMHO is to document Govs about the real > life threats, imply them in solutions and demonstrate through real > working system solutions. > > In that future Internet, a distributed ubiquity of smart stand alone > smart multi services $ 100 nodes over a continuity of various types of > bandwidths by coopeting large concentrated operators (look at FCC > policy) at a global $ 15 cost per month, the protocol will probably > progressively switch from IP to something better (but compatibility will > have to be maintained for a while) managed by a secure and versatile > simple inter-user network operating system. OCP could be a good embryo > of such an OS internal protocol. > > jfc > > > > > At 05:52 23/10/2004, Alex Rousskov wrote: > > >> Jfc, >> >> Since I cannot understand your objections, despite multiple >> serious attempts to do so, my suggestion would be for you to forward >> your new-charter-makes-no-sense objections to IESG. If IESG >> understands and agrees with your position, they might be able to >> explain it in a way that I can comprehend in order to help with fixing >> the charter. If not, we would not have to come back to this until the >> next charter revision. >> >> Alex. >> >> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, jfcm wrote: >> >>> >>> I think we will never get Alex understand the problem. What he sees >>> is an action on a message. Not the scope of that action. It is true >>> that whatever the protocol a message (in one or several datagrams) is >>> massaged like in any middlebox. The difference is thatit is not >>> massage at the middlebox but at a distant server. The important >>> action is the massaging (filtering, protocol to the server, update). >>> Martin in the SMTP case see the things the same way. >>> >>> I see the same thing, but in an architectural way. Either the idea is >>> to stop having too many middleboxes and to keep the network >>> intelligence at the edge, so the architectural end to end and dumb >>> network/smart hosts can be protected. This is the IAB idea and we >>> have to be very tought on the OPES definition as an "edge" service. >>> Or we do not mind IAB, we address the need and we extend RFC 3234 >>> with networked middleboxes (I recall that middleboxes can be virtual, >>> so the filter of an OPES is a midlebox). >>> >>> 1. if we talk about OPES. there may be knowledge of the OPES action >>> by the ends, but no dialog with both. In the case of an a-synchornous >>> service multicast such as SMTP the only end to be informed is the >>> nearest end. Also, by no means OPES can be on an MTA, only on UAs >>> because the MTA by nature is not at the edge of the network. OPES can >>> only be on the edge traffic. Not on the stored nor on inner network >>> traffic. >>> >>> 2. if we talk of remote server supported middleboxes, we are totally >>> free to do what we want. But these are no more OPES but ONES. This >>> means Open Network Extended Services. We are then introducing >>> intelligence within the network, what I _fully_ support, but which is >>> far, far more complex to document. May I remind you RFC 2775: there >>> is no objection to change everything in the network vision (and I DO >>> think this necessary and urgent if we want to address the IAB >>> concerns on Internet future) but this is another issue and I doubt >>> this WG has the right people to engage a total rebuild of the Internet. >>> >>> I can only repeat that the proposed examples are fine as services, >>> not as OPES they are not. Also, that the new charter does not make >>> any technical sense to me. Because OPES are at users plug and the >>> work you want them to provide is at the power plant. >>> >>> Or we decide that the architecture is end-to-mailserver + >>> mailserver-to-end. The mail server is then an edge. But who is in >>> control? Not the receiving end but the ISP mailserver manager. And we >>> fall back in the situation described by Markus.... >>> jfc >>> >>> >>> At 01:49 23/10/2004, Hilarie Orman wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> HTTP never had a store-and-forward protocol architecture, so all >>>> the proxy stuff got tacked on. SMTP dealt with it from the beginning >>>> and already addressed the problems of MITM, tracing, etc. It is, >>>> in fact, the strawman reference model for much of our OPES discussion. >>>> There's an odd recursive aspect to applying OPES to SMTP, and I think >>>> it is important to clarify why SMTP will benefit from OPES, sort of >>>> like asking why one's grandparents should buy their clothes at >>>> Banana Republic (whatever). >>>> Hilarie >>>> >>>> -----Snippet of Original Message----- >>>> From: Alex Rousskov >>>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:13 AM >>>> Subject: Re: SMTP Use Cases >>>> I may be repeating myself, but I still do not know how >>>> store-and-forward >>>> SMTP is different from whatever-you-want-to-call-it HTTP in the >>>> context of >>>> adapting content. Thus, for me, SMTP adaptation can be within OPES >>>> scope >>>> if HTTP adaptation is. 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The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following description was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by October 27th. Open Pluggable Edge Services (opes) ----------------------------------- Current Status: Active Working Group Description of Working Group: The Internet facilitates the development of networked services at the application level that both offload origin servers and improve the user experience. Web proxies, for example, are commonly deployed to provide services such as Web caching, virus scanning, and request filtering. Lack of standardized mechanisms to trace and to control such intermediaries causes problems with respect to failure detection, data integrity, privacy, and security. The OPES Working Group has previously developed an architectural framework to authorize, invoke, and trace such application-level services for HTTP. The framework follows a one-party consent model, which requires that each service be authorized explicitly by at least one of the application-layer endpoints. It further requires that OPES services are reversible by mutual agreement of the application endpoints. In particular, the WG has developed a protocol suite for invocation and tracking of OPES services inside the net. The protocol suite includes a generic, application-agnostic protocol core (OCP Core) that is supplemented by profiles specific to the application-layer protocol used between the endpoints. So far, the WG has specified an OCP profile for HTTP, which supports OPES services that operate on HTTP messages. In a next step, the WG will specify one or more OCP profiles that will support OPES services operating on SMTP. In particular, the profile to be specified will enable an SMTP server (the OPES processor) to encapsulate and forward SMTP data and metadata to a callout server for additional processing. Several kinds of agents participate in SMTP exchanges, including MSA, MTA, MDA, and MUA. The first OCP/SMTP profile will address the needs of at least the MTA and/or MDA. More profiles may be needed to address other agent-specific needs, such as for LMTP and/or SUBMIT. The security and privacy concerns of SMTP must be carefully analyzed as part of the definition of the profile. In addition, the WG will define a rules language to control selection and invocation of services by an OPES processor. This includes a mechanism allowing an OPES processor to perform a runtime check of service parameters, leveraging existing interface description standards like WSDL, if possible, or OPES-specific description otherwise. Defining language(s) for implementing OPES services is out of the WG scope. The rules language will be based on previous work of the WG on a rules language named "P". The WG will have a design goal that the language be compatible with existing policy work within the IETF (e.g. IETF Policy Framework) and be able to interface with systems automating distribution of policies to multiple endpoints. It will be out of scope for this WG to develop the policy framework and specify multiple-endpoint policy distribution. The group's new work items can be listed as: - Develop a document about "Scenarios and Use Cases for OPES Services operating on SMTP". - Define profile(s) for OCP core that handle SMTP messages or parts thereof. - Define a rules language to control the selection and invocation of HTTP-based or SMTP-based OPES services. Each deliverable must follow the previously developed OPES architecture. 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P has a much shorter, easier to spell name. 2. Both languages have similar design goals and execution environment as far as email filtering is concerned. 3. P has a much broader scope, including facilitating email adaptation (not just filtering) and adaptation of other protocols such as HTTP. 4. Sieve contains commands to redirect or respond to messages. IIRC, P scope was limited to directing messages to services (that, in turn, could redirect or respond to messages, among other things). On the other hand, if we follow the service-is-a-method approach we have discussed, then there may be no difference from user point of view. 5. Sieve scripts are executed during final delivery, when the message is moved to the user-accessible mailbox. P can be used during final delivery or anywhere message adaptation is needed. 6. P Core makes rich extensions easier, but Sieve was not designed with rich extensions in mind (Sieve scope is narrow). 7. If we "extend" Sieve to apply it to HTTP adaptations, we (a) would not be able to reuse much and (b) may have to violate a couple of existing Sieve Core rules. Thus, the argument "why do we need another filtering language?" is not that strong because it is, in theory, better to have a single common language for several key protocols than multiple similar languages, one for each key protocol. It is sad if P/SMTP is Sieve, but one can argue that it is not OPES fault that Sieve team did not want to look beyond email filtering. 8. Sieve does not allow for code or computation reuse (i.e., functions and variables) because creators view reuse as a security model violation (not sure why, but it seems to be a common misconception) P may allow for some code and computation reuse, hopefully without significantly increasing vulnerability of compliant interpreters. 9. Unlike P, 06 does not appear to support modern error handling -- if something fails, the whole script fails. This might be OK for simple/core applications but sounds like a serious limitation if non-trivial extension actions are to be supported. It would be difficult to write a script that never fails but tries to access things deep inside message structure or tries to execute non-trivial commands. Even trivial commands like redirecting a message to a folder can fail; I am not sure exactly what would happen with Sieve-controlled message then; the outcome is likely to be implementation-dependent. 10. Sieve has two basic data types: integers and strings. Sieve also has lists of strings. For example, MIME headers and even MIME body parts are strings. P has many types representing messages and their components. Thus, P might support more intuitive, protocol- and context-dependent access to data, making some tests faster or more precise. 11. I am not positive, but it seems that Sieve provides limited access to message parts, assuming some sort of common tests or expressions. It seems that some tests may not be possible with Sieve because the documented tests hide some details. Perhaps extensions can cover for that, or perhaps nobody needs full access to some message parts. 12. 06 does not use XML, but its expression syntax is not human-friendly. The assumption is that most scripts will be written by programs controlled via user-friendly GUIs. 13. 06 supports a simple subset of regular expressions. We have not decided what regular expressions P should support. 14. 06 Core does not support relational operators other than a match (except for message size comparisons?), but extensions such as RFC 3431 can add those. I do not know how portable use of extensions for operators makes one's code. It is possible that RFC 3431 is widely supported so its "extension" status is not an issue. 15. Both languages can require support for a given extension from the interpreter (but Sieve scripts cannot recover if such support is missing). 16. Sieve does not define a common way to define extensions or load extensions into an interpreter. We have argued that P should at least provide a way to do the former so that scripts can be thoroughly checked against public extension interface, and without knowing extension implementation details. Please correct any factual errors. I am not a Sieve expert or even casual user; I just read the two RFCs quoted above! Also, it would be great if somebody can describe Sieve popularity in real world. Are we looking at a well-established and widely implemented standard? Like ICAP? Finally, I realize that it is easy to portrait partially-defined P in a better light than already "frozen" Sieve -- it is easy to claim that P will gain all necessary features it is missing now. I would prefer to hear from other folks before sharing my half-baked ideas of where this quick comparison leaves us. Thank you, Alex. P.S. I agree with Abbie that to compare we need a set of criteria. The above items roughly outline the set I have in my mind. I hope the set is visible enough through the details, and I hesitate spending a few months on a good criteria document instead. This informal approach may backfire, of course. From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Tue Oct 26 03:34:04 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA06409 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CMM3j-0004W1-Ai for opes-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:48:09 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9Q7OqCT076613; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:24:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9Q7OqTq076612; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:24:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.rfburst.com (mail.esmartstart.com [66.119.143.50]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9Q7OpIr076572 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:24:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ho@alum.mit.edu) Received: from portia ([66.119.143.202]) by mail.rfburst.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9Q7OjP1031700; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:24:46 -0600 Message-Id: <200410260724.i9Q7OjP1031700@mail.rfburst.com> From: "Hilarie Orman" To: "'Alex Rousskov'" Cc: "'OPES Group'" Subject: RE: P versus Sieve Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:24:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20041025221939.G35448@measurement-factory.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcS7GIUb9bWWks6eTkC6/VGEa8C5fQAEK15g X-esmartscan-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-esmartscan-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: ho@alum.mit.edu Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good summary, thanks for doing it. Sieve seems to have a good handle on designating the basic attributes of email messages, and I think it will be important to ensure that P can do all that Sieve can with similar economy of notation. Does Sieve have a logical pathway to other protocols? I'm not sure ... I guess it arguably handles any protocol with the format "header: parameters". It might be tricky to extend the language to handle mime subparts (because they have to be parsed recursively, and the language is not recursive). What about "sizeof(part)>10K"? Or "one of the received from headers is from IP addr 66.118.143.1"? Sieve's intention of providing provably terminating and safe filtering rules could give us ideas for additional goals for P. We might like to classify actions into safety categories. We expect P to have an extensible set of actions, but not all actions are guaranteed to be safe, in that they might not terminate or might increase the message size greatly). 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    544074 --8426128172918660853-- From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Tue Oct 26 07:16:37 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA24260 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CMPXI-0000be-PZ for opes-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:30:46 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9QB3HnI068674; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 04:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9QB3Hax068673; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 04:03:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com [47.129.242.56]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9QB3GHT068610 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 04:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abbieb@nortelnetworks.com) Received: from zrtpd0jn.us.nortel.com (zrtpd0jn.us.nortel.com [47.140.202.35]) by zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i9QB2nf10880; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zrtpd0jn.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:02:50 -0400 Message-ID: <87AC5F88F03E6249AEA68D40BD3E00BE01E17762@zcarhxm2.corp.nortel.com> From: "Abbie Barbir" To: Hilarie Orman , "'Alex Rousskov'" Cc: "'OPES Group'" Subject: RE: P versus Sieve Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:58:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4BB4B.4E8947A6" Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4BB4B.4E8947A6 Content-Type: text/plain Alex, good work, thanks. I agree with you final remarks. Hilarie, I also agree with your feedback. It seems to me that P should be inspired by Sieve. Agree with Alex, need to understand how Sieve is accpeted (limitations and Plusses) in the IT world. Abbie > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Hilarie Orman > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 3:25 AM > To: 'Alex Rousskov' > Cc: 'OPES Group' > Subject: RE: P versus Sieve > > > > A good summary, thanks for doing it. > > Sieve seems to have a good handle on designating the basic > attributes of email messages, and I think it will be > important to ensure that P can do all that Sieve can with > similar economy of notation. Does Sieve have a logical pathway to > other protocols? I'm not sure ... I guess it arguably > handles any protocol with the format "header: parameters". > It might be tricky to extend the language to handle > mime subparts (because they have to be parsed recursively, > and the language is not recursive). What about > "sizeof(part)>10K"? Or "one of the received from headers is > from IP addr 66.118.143.1"? > > Sieve's intention of providing provably terminating and safe > filtering rules could give us ideas for additional goals for > P. We might like to classify actions into safety categories. > We expect P to have an extensible set of actions, but not all > actions are guaranteed to be safe, in that they might not > terminate or might increase the message size greatly). So, P > might have "safety labels" on actions, and users might need > special privileges to use less-than-perfectly-safe actions. > > Hilarie > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4BB4B.4E8947A6 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: P versus Sieve

    Alex,
    good work, thanks.
    I agree with you final remarks.
    Hilarie, I also agree with your feedback.

    It seems to me that P should be inspired by Sieve. =
    Agree with Alex, need to understand how Sieve is = accpeted (limitations and Plusses)
    in the IT world.

    Abbie

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org
    > [mailto:owner-ietf-open= proxy@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Hilarie Orman
    > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 3:25 AM
    > To: 'Alex Rousskov'
    > Cc: 'OPES Group'
    > Subject: RE: P versus Sieve
    >
    >
    >
    > A good summary, thanks for doing it.
    >
    > Sieve seems to have a good handle on = designating the basic
    > attributes of email messages, and I think it = will be
    > important to ensure that P can do all that = Sieve can with
    > similar economy of notation.  Does Sieve = have a logical pathway to
    > other protocols?  I'm not sure ... I guess = it arguably
    > handles any protocol with the format = "header: parameters".
    > It might be tricky to extend the language to = handle
    > mime subparts (because they have to be parsed = recursively,
    > and the language is not recursive).  What = about
    > "sizeof(part)>10K"? Or "one = of the received from headers is
    > from IP addr 66.118.143.1"?
    >
    > Sieve's intention of providing provably = terminating and safe
    > filtering rules could give us ideas for = additional goals for
    > P.  We might like to classify actions into = safety categories.
    > We expect P to have an extensible set of = actions, but not all
    > actions are guaranteed to be safe, in that they = might not
    > terminate or might increase the message size = greatly).  So, P
    > might have "safety labels" on = actions, and users might need
    > special privileges to use = less-than-perfectly-safe actions.
    >
    > Hilarie
    >
    >
    >
    >

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    From ssqoxvr@yahoo.com Thu Oct 28 21:49:22 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16023; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CNM7U-0006OR-Cs; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:04:01 -0400 Received: from i220-108-13-13.s02.a001.ap.plala.or.jp ([220.108.13.13]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CNLtG-0003Ha-G6; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:49:19 -0400 Original-Encoded-Information-Types: multipart/alternative Language: English Disclose-Recipients: No Reply-To: "David Delong" From: "David Delong" To: nsis-request@ietf.org, nternet-drafts@ietf.org, opes-archive@ietf.org, ops-area@ietf.org, ops-nm@ietf.org, owner-ietf@ietf.org Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:58:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--3174030397494414099" Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 ----3174030397494414099 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8130-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Here is David Delong. I write to you because we are accepting your mortgag= e application. Our office confirms you can get a $220.000 lo=C0n for a $252.00 per month = payment. Approval process will take 1 minute, so please fill out the form on our we= bsite: http://buried-goldeneye.refitalk.com Thank you. Best Regards David Delong First Account Manager ----3174030397494414099-- From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Thu Oct 28 22:22:59 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA23386 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CNMe4-0008PJ-DK for opes-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:37:40 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9T29tMQ012700; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:09:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9T29tA8012699; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:09:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9T29p1C012662 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:09:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markus@mhof.com) Received: from [10.0.0.10] (pcp04238594pcs.eatntn01.nj.comcast.net[68.83.187.201]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <200410290209590140002pepe> (Authid: mhofmann); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:09:59 +0000 Message-ID: <4181A690.2000801@mhof.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:10:24 -0400 From: Markus Hofmann User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OPES Group Subject: Re: Request for Agenda ITems at IETF 61 References: <4175B646.4020008@mhof.com> <41785863.40003@mhof.com> In-Reply-To: <41785863.40003@mhof.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, we got notice from Alex, Martin, and Abbie that neither will be able to come to IETF 61. No one else expressed interest to present, no agenda topic was submitted. Under these circumstances, we intend to cancel our OPES WG meeting at IETF 61. If anyone changes his/her mind and is interested in presenting on the topics in our new proposed charter, please let us know by 5pm, EDT, Friday, 10/29. Otherwise, we'll cancel the meeting. Looking forward, Martin Stecher offered to start putting together some text for a SMTP Use Cases draft, which should be the first new document. Anyone else interested in producing text for this draft, please let us know. Also - please keep the ideas for use cases rolling. Thanks, Markus Markus Hofmann wrote: > > Folks, > > if we don't have agenda items nor speakers, we don't need to meet in > Washington. Please send it agenda items or indicate your willingness to > speak to one of the two suggested topics ASAP. > > Otherwise we'll cancel the meeting at IETF 61. > > Thanks, > Markus > > Markus Hofmann wrote: > >> >> Folks, >> >> we've tentatively requested a one hour time slot for the upcoming IETF >> meeting in Washington. Please send in any agenda item request! >> >> Based on my previous email, I would assume that we could have "P vs. >> Sieve" and "SMTP Use Cases" on the agenda. Anyone willing to present >> on either of these topics please let us know. >> >> -Markus >> > From Mcginnisscy@webtv.net Fri Oct 29 01:50:40 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA11646; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.161.129.78] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CNPt3-0005ib-R4; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:05:22 -0400 Received: from propellant.remcomp.fr ([245.138.228.96) by dropout.remcomp.fr (InterMail vK.4.08.75.06 669-559-331-01933422 license djsfu5ee62380wr3203d98kw5910l9775) with ESMTP id <10807218680233.WWUY390.conceptual@citywide.remcomp.fr> for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:41:26 -0500 Received: from nullpmws4esytf (drib-549-103.remcomp.fr [165.157.54.144]) by brazen.remcomp.fr (Mirapoint Messaging Server ZQC 1.3.7-OP) with SMTP id OSX00938; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:05:06 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <001d01c3c032$d5749130$fa8be650@nullpmws4esytf> From: "Selena Bradfordl" To: Subject: what about their nails Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:44:26 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.501) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_0-008491837-0264878749=:18631" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 14.6 (++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_0-008491837-0264878749=:18631 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ------=_NextPart_0-008491837-0264878749=:18631 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable




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    margery browniegaseous homily periphrasticranch tropopause martingaleshipyard fund coachbreakage wiggly lapblockage countervail blondcommunicable hellebore appliedcowbird mexican ginoarteriole lawgiving schultzirreclaimable --6-748405736-2122243105=:29096-- From owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 29 09:37:42 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28640 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CNXB7-0007BN-3o for opes-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:52:30 -0400 Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9TDN12N043821; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:23:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i9TDN1op043820; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:23:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from zrtps0kp.nortelnetworks.com (zrtps0kp.nortelnetworks.com [47.140.192.56]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9TDN0eW043682 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:23:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abbieb@nortelnetworks.com) Received: from zrtpd0jn.us.nortel.com (zrtpd0jn.us.nortel.com [47.140.202.35]) by zrtps0kp.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i9TDMoN21829; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zrtpd0jn.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:22:51 -0400 Message-ID: <87AC5F88F03E6249AEA68D40BD3E00BE01F00332@zcarhxm2.corp.nortel.com> From: "Abbie Barbir" To: Markus Hofmann , OPES Group Subject: RE: Request for Agenda ITems at IETF 61 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:18:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4BDBA.5DF856E8" Sender: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f2984bf50fb52a9e56055f779793d783 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4BDBA.5DF856E8 Content-Type: text/plain count me in abbie > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Markus Hofmann > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:10 PM > To: OPES Group > Subject: Re: Request for Agenda ITems at IETF 61 > > > > Folks, > > we got notice from Alex, Martin, and Abbie that neither will be able > to come to IETF 61. No one else expressed interest to present, no > agenda topic was submitted. > > Under these circumstances, we intend to cancel our OPES WG meeting at > IETF 61. If anyone changes his/her mind and is interested in > presenting on the topics in our new proposed charter, please let us > know by 5pm, EDT, Friday, 10/29. Otherwise, we'll cancel the meeting. > > Looking forward, Martin Stecher offered to start putting > together some > text for a SMTP Use Cases draft, which should be the first new > document. Anyone else interested in producing text for this draft, > please let us know. Also - please keep the ideas for use > cases rolling. > > Thanks, > Markus > > > Markus Hofmann wrote: > > > > Folks, > > > > if we don't have agenda items nor speakers, we don't need to meet in > > Washington. Please send it agenda items or indicate your > willingness to > > speak to one of the two suggested topics ASAP. > > > > Otherwise we'll cancel the meeting at IETF 61. > > > > Thanks, > > Markus > > > > Markus Hofmann wrote: > > > >> > >> Folks, > >> > >> we've tentatively requested a one hour time slot for the upcoming > >> IETF > >> meeting in Washington. Please send in any agenda item request! > >> > >> Based on my previous email, I would assume that we could > have "P vs. > >> Sieve" and "SMTP Use Cases" on the agenda. Anyone willing > to present > >> on either of these topics please let us know. > >> > >> -Markus > >> > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4BDBA.5DF856E8 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Request for Agenda ITems at IETF 61

    count me in

    abbie
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-ietf-openproxy@mail.imc.org
    > [mailto:owner-ietf-open= proxy@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Markus Hofmann
    > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:10 = PM
    > To: OPES Group
    > Subject: Re: Request for Agenda ITems at IETF = 61
    >
    >
    >
    > Folks,
    >
    > we got notice from Alex, Martin, and Abbie that = neither will be able
    > to come to IETF 61. No one else expressed = interest to present, no
    > agenda topic was submitted.
    >
    > Under these circumstances, we intend to cancel = our OPES WG meeting at
    > IETF 61. If anyone changes his/her mind and is = interested in
    > presenting on the topics in our new proposed = charter, please let us
    > know by 5pm, EDT, Friday, 10/29. Otherwise, = we'll cancel the meeting.
    >
    > Looking forward, Martin Stecher offered to = start putting
    > together some
    > text for a SMTP Use Cases draft, which should = be the first new
    > document. Anyone else interested in producing = text for this draft,
    > please let us know. Also - please keep the = ideas for use
    > cases rolling.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >    Markus
    >
    >
    > Markus Hofmann wrote:
    > >
    > > Folks,
    > >
    > > if we don't have agenda items nor = speakers, we don't need to meet in
    > > Washington. Please send it agenda items or = indicate your
    > willingness to
    > > speak to one of the two suggested topics = ASAP.
    > >
    > > Otherwise we'll cancel the meeting at IETF = 61.
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > >   Markus
    > >
    > > Markus Hofmann wrote:
    > >
    > >>
    > >> Folks,
    > >>
    > >> we've tentatively requested a one hour = time slot for the upcoming
    > >> IETF
    > >> meeting in Washington. Please send in = any agenda item request!
    > >>
    > >> Based on my previous email, I would = assume that we could
    > have "P vs.
    > >> Sieve" and "SMTP Use = Cases" on the agenda. Anyone willing
    > to present
    > >> on either of these topics please let = us know.
    > >>
    > >> -Markus
    > >>
    > >
    >
    >
    >

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    From Fishlha@rmrc.net Fri Oct 29 18:04:38 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA19026; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CNf5W-0003tK-OK; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:19:31 -0400 Received: from [201.128.9.135] (helo=dsl-201-128-9-135.prod-infinitum.com.mx) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CNer7-0004tB-Uu; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:04:22 -0400 Received: from doubt.canadasown.net ([252.72.224.164]) by 201.128.9.135 with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:56:15 -0400 Message-ID: <502692x288x5043j93j1019g2q7259@canadasown.net> X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 05:02:15 +0600 From: "Jimmie Goff" Reply-To: "Jimmie Goff" To: opes-archive@ietf.org, ops-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Acrobat 6 Professional $60 Organization: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="4-603301971-7304843375=:46056" X-Spam-Score: 10.8 (++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a --4-603301971-7304843375=:46056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --4-603301971-7304843375=:46056 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wired magazine : Review results
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This is regrettable, but we should now focus on getting the new work started and making some good progress in the very near future. This will allow us to have a really good meeting with "lots of meat" at IETF 62. As OPES moves into new territories (e.g. our proposed SMTP work), we should leverage the kind of cross-Area/cross-group fertilization that is facilitated by the IETF, and by the IETF meetings, in particular. As such, we must not skip the next meeting, and I encourage everyone interested in OPES to come and also be active in the meetings. [I understand, though, that funding is any issue for many]. Thanks, Markus Markus Hofmann wrote: > > Folks, > > we got notice from Alex, Martin, and Abbie that neither will be able to > come to IETF 61. No one else expressed interest to present, no agenda > topic was submitted. > > Under these circumstances, we intend to cancel our OPES WG meeting at > IETF 61. If anyone changes his/her mind and is interested in presenting > on the topics in our new proposed charter, please let us know by 5pm, > EDT, Friday, 10/29. Otherwise, we'll cancel the meeting. > > Looking forward, Martin Stecher offered to start putting together some > text for a SMTP Use Cases draft, which should be the first new document. > Anyone else interested in producing text for this draft, please let us > know. Also - please keep the ideas for use cases rolling. > > Thanks, > Markus > > > Markus Hofmann wrote: > >> >> Folks, >> >> if we don't have agenda items nor speakers, we don't need to meet in >> Washington. Please send it agenda items or indicate your willingness >> to speak to one of the two suggested topics ASAP. >> >> Otherwise we'll cancel the meeting at IETF 61. >> >> Thanks, >> Markus >> >> Markus Hofmann wrote: >> >>> >>> Folks, >>> >>> we've tentatively requested a one hour time slot for the upcoming >>> IETF meeting in Washington. Please send in any agenda item request! >>> >>> Based on my previous email, I would assume that we could have "P vs. >>> Sieve" and "SMTP Use Cases" on the agenda. 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