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From: "Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve)" <gvandeve@cisco.com>
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Hi All,

This is your chance to be famous in OPSEC.

The chairs are looking for volunteers to function as scribe and minute take=
r.

Kindly let us know if you are willing to volunteer,

Brgds,
G/, KK & Warren


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is your chance to be famous in OPSEC.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The chairs are looking for volunteers to function as=
 scribe and minute taker.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kindly let us know if you are willing to volunteer,<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brgds,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">G/, KK &amp; Warren<o:p></o:p></p>
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From warren@kumari.net  Wed Nov  6 18:43:49 2013
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Hi all,

We have just posted the OpSec WG minutes[0]. Please let us know if we =
misunderstood / misrepresented your comments.

W

[0]: Thanks again to Paul Hoffman.

--
It is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe.  It is equally =
vain
to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead.
    --  E.W Dijkstra, 1930-2002




From furry13@gmail.com  Fri Nov  8 12:04:46 2013
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From: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 21:04:19 +0100
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On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:38 AM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:
> We have just posted the OpSec WG minutes[0]. Please let us know if we misunderstood / misrepresented your comments.

"Jen Linkova: a question about using LL sources for links that
                  are off-link"

s/for links/for destinations/

-- 
SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry

From furry13@gmail.com  Thu Nov 14 09:23:18 2013
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From: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 18:22:53 +0100
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To: opsec WG <opsec@ietf.org>, Eric Vyncke <evyncke@cisco.com>,  Michael Behringer <mbehring@cisco.com>
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Subject: [OPSEC] comments on draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04
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Hello,

I've reviewed draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04, see my comments below.


1) 2.1.  The Approach

"Neither global IPv6 addresses nor unique local addresses are
   configured on infrastructure links.  "

[comment] Formally ULAs are of the global scope so maybe re-phrasing
to "neither globally routed addresses nor unique local addresses".


2) 2.1.  The Approach
" [RFC6724] mandates that greater than link-local scope IPv6 addresses
   must be used as the source IPv6 address for all generated ICMPv6
   messages sent to a non link-local address.
"

[comment] As I mentioned in Vancouver, I think this statement is not
absolutely accurate.
What RFC6724 mandates is that *if* candidate source addresses set
contains link-local and global addresses, then global address is
preferred for global destinations.
Therefore it is possible to chose link-local source for global
destination in some cases.
For example,  ND redirects MUST be sent from link-local address
(RFC4861, Section 4.5) while the destination may be global address.
Speaking of candidate set for DAS..
RFC6724 says:
"It is RECOMMENDED that the candidate source addresses be the set of
   unicast addresses assigned to the interface that will be used to send
   to the destination (the "outgoing" interface).  On routers, the
   candidate set MAY include unicast addresses assigned to any interface
   that forwards packets, subject to the restrictions described below.
   Implementations that wish to support the use of global source
   addresses assigned to a loopback interface MUST behave as if the
   loopback interface originates and forwards the packet."

Which means that it some implementations might not include lo0 into
the candidate set, in which case a router might use link-local as a
source which leads to operational issues and makes the troubleshooting
more difficult. I think it worth be discussed in the 'Caveats'
section.

3) 2.1.  The Approach
      "Control plane protocols, such as BGP [RFC4271], ISIS [IS-IS],
      OSPFv3 [RFC5340], RIPng [RFC2080], PIM [RFC4609] work by default
      or can be configured to work with link-local addresses.......
We therefore conclude that it is possible to construct a working
   network in this way."

[comment] However there are protocols which may experience issues in
such topology (RSVP). While you do mention RSVP later,  this section
discusses the effect on specific traffic types, so I'd suggest that
you add a sentence or two about protocols which might not work and
clarify that it is possible to construct a working network if those
protocols are not in use.

4) 2.1.  The Approach
"ICMP error message can be sourced from a loopback interface.  They
      must not be sourced from link-local addresses when the destination
      is non link-local."

See my comment #2 - applies here as well.


5) 2.2.  Advantages
[comment] If I were you, I'd reordered the paragraphs. IMHO, lower
configuration complexity & simpler DNS are the main advantages of the
suggested approach, then routing table reduction.
Reducing attack surface does not sound like a really big advantage
providing that risk can easily be mitigated - so probably it would
make sense to put it at the end of the section. What do you think?

"Lower configuration complexity: link-local addresses require no
   specific configuration, thereby lowering the complexity and size of
   router configurations.  This also reduces the likelihood of
   configuration mistakes."

[comment] I'd also mention that it simplifies the whole address
management process.

6)2.3. Caveats

"
Traceroute: similar to the ping case, a reply to a traceroute packet
   would come from the address of a loopback interface, and current
   implementations do not display the specific interface the packets
   came in on.  Also here, RFC5837 [RFC5837] provides a solution.
"

[comment] in the traceroute/ping section you are saying that RFC5837
provides a solution.
However there are two problems and only one might be solved by
including interface identifier into ICMPv6. The first problem is to
*see* which interface the packet arrived via. RFC5837 does help with
it. The second issue is that we are losing the ability to control the
path of the packet and specify which interface the traceroute/ping
packet should arrive on. It is especially useful for packet loss
troubleshooting. Would it be possible to clarify that RFC5837 provided
only partical solution?


7) 2.3. Caveats
"

Hardware dependency:.....
LLAs can
   be statically configured such as fe80::1 and fe80::2 which can be
   used to configure any required static routing neighborship.  This
   static configuration is similar in complexity to statically
   configured greater than link-local addresses"

[comment] I'd say that the complexity is higher as such approach
introduces an additional complexity in monitoring/troubleshooting.
Such configuration results in situation when an operator has to deal
with messages like 'BGP neighbor fe80::1%ae1 is down' which might be
confusing and requires additional efforts to identify neighbors. This
also applies to the next paragraph about NMS toolkit: an operator
needs to ensure that NMS and other tools support link-local addresses
not just for router interfaces but for protocol configuration (such as
BGP peers etc).

8) 2.4.  Internet Exchange Points
[comment] It would be great to see two subsection discussing
advantages and caveats like it is done above.


Typos found:

1)
1.  Introduction
s/OPSF/OSPF/

2)
2.3.  Caveats
s/implementions/implementations/



-- 
SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry

From opsec@wjcerveny.com  Mon Nov 18 14:10:06 2013
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I've reviewed draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04.  I've sent my detailed =
suggested revisions and comments directly to the authors, but at a high =
level:

1) The introduction makes reference to RFC6860 regarding OSPFv2 and =
OSPFv3, but then doesn't mention this in the rest of the document.  Why =
is this in the introduction? Why is this not mentioned in the rest of =
the document?
2) I'm not sure if it is common knowledge what is intended by phrase, =
"greater than link-local-scope", or at least I wasn't familiar with it. =
Minimally, can the document include a reference to how "greater" or =
"less than" is used in terms of address types?
3) At the end of the document, you make reference to "the traditional =
approach". I don't think you've clarified what you mean by "the =
traditional approach", although I can guess what you've meant.

Bill Cerveny=

From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Fri Nov 22 04:50:25 2013
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Subject: [OPSEC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsec-ip-options-filtering-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Operational Security Capabilities for IP =
Network Infrastructure Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Recommendations on filtering of IPv4 packets containing =
IPv4 options.
	Author(s)       : Fernando Gont
                          RJ Atkinson
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-opsec-ip-options-filtering-06.txt
	Pages           : 34
	Date            : 2013-11-22

Abstract:
   This document provides advice on the filtering of IPv4 packets based
   on the IPv4 options they contain.  Additionally, it discusses the
   operational and interoperability implications of dropping packets
   based on the IP options they contain.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsec-ip-options-filtering

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsec-ip-options-filtering-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-opsec-ip-options-filtering-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
To: Bill Cerveny <opsec@wjcerveny.com>, "opsec@ietf.org" <opsec@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OPSEC] Comments on draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04.xml
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Bill

Thanks for your comments, Michael and I just went through all of them and h=
ere are our own feedback.
- cosmetic and typos are fixed now (MANY thanks) as well as your suggestion=
s to improved readability
- we moved RFC 6860 short text from the introduction to approach section
- RFC 4443 specifies when to send the ICMP message, so, we left the text un=
changed

And of course, we added your name in the acknowledgement section

-=E9ric & michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: OPSEC [mailto:opsec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bill Cerveny
> Sent: lundi 18 novembre 2013 23:10
> To: opsec@ietf.org
> Subject: [OPSEC] Comments on draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04.xml
>=20
> I've reviewed draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04.  I've sent my detailed
> suggested revisions and comments directly to the authors, but at a
> high level:
>=20
> 1) The introduction makes reference to RFC6860 regarding OSPFv2 and
> OSPFv3, but then doesn't mention this in the rest of the document.
> Why is this in the introduction? Why is this not mentioned in the
> rest of the document?
> 2) I'm not sure if it is common knowledge what is intended by phrase,
> "greater than link-local-scope", or at least I wasn't familiar with
> it. Minimally, can the document include a reference to how "greater"
> or "less than" is used in terms of address types?
> 3) At the end of the document, you make reference to "the traditional
> approach". I don't think you've clarified what you mean by "the
> traditional approach", although I can guess what you've meant.
>=20
> Bill Cerveny
> _______________________________________________
> OPSEC mailing list
> OPSEC@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec

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From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, "opsec@ietf.org" <opsec@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OPSEC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04.txt
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Fernando

Michael and I are doing a last( ?) pass on our I-D, and coming back to your=
 stable-privacy-address (which I like) relevance to the LLA-only ID. Regard=
ing LLA, I have only seen three cases (by routers and end hosts):
- EUI-64 based (typical for routers)
- static (rare but doable)
- random but permanent (such as Windows -- quite similar to your draft but =
LLA are never changing)

So, I do not think we should go in details around this aspect of LLA as it =
is orthogonal to our LLA-only approach.

Thanks again for all the other comments which made their ways in -04

-=E9ric & michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fernando Gont [mailto:fgont@si6networks.com]
> Sent: mardi 22 octobre 2013 02:11
> To: Eric Vyncke (evyncke); opsec@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [OPSEC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04.txt
>=20
> Hi, Eric,
>=20
> On 10/20/2013 02:44 PM, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote:
> > document. Added reference to RFC 4987 (SYN flood). Clarification
> about
> > what is meant by a loopback address/interface. The comment about
> > static addresses for LLA and draft-ietf-6man-stable-privacy-
> addresses
> > has been ignored because to our knowledge routers never use privacy
> > extension addresses for their interfaces.
>=20
> You mean slaac? What about link-local addresses?
>=20
> Anyway... has this doc been WGLC'ed? If not, I volunteer fore
> reviewing the document again (*if* such reviews are needed to
> progress the I-D :-) ).
>=20
> Cheers,
> --
> Fernando Gont
> SI6 Networks
> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
>=20
>=20
>=20


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:05:17 -0800
Cc: opsec@ietf.org
Subject: [OPSEC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-implications-on-ipv4-nets-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Operational Security Capabilities for IP =
Network Infrastructure Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Security Implications of IPv6 on IPv4 Networks
	Author(s)       : Fernando Gont
                          Will (Shucheng) Liu
	Filename        : draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-implications-on-ipv4-nets-06.txt
	Pages           : 18
	Date            : 2013-11-25

Abstract:
   This document discusses the security implications of native IPv6
   support and IPv6 transition/co-existence technologies on "IPv4-only"
   networks, and describes possible mitigations for the aforementioned
   issues.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-implications-on-ipv4=
-nets

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-implications-on-ipv4-nets-=
06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-implications-on-ip=
v4-nets-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
To: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>, opsec WG <opsec@ietf.org>, "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" <mbehring@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: comments on draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04
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Subject: Re: [OPSEC] comments on draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04
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Hello Jen

Thanks for your interest for our I-D and even more thanks for your valuable=
 comments.

1) accepted

2) point taken for redirect message & use of loopback address being impleme=
ntation dependent, we have modified this section

3) Control plane protocols, we now use 'Most control plane protocols' as RS=
VP is an exception ;-)

4) Same as 2) indeed

5) added that the order of advantage has no significance and added the 'Sim=
pler address management' as suggestion (thanks)

6) good catch, traceroute text has been changed

7) static LLA configuration text has been modified

8) IXP, we preferred not to call out advantages and caveats as they previou=
s ones also apply to IXP

Again big thanks

-=E9ric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jen Linkova [mailto:furry13@gmail.com]
> Sent: jeudi 14 novembre 2013 18:23
> To: opsec WG; Eric Vyncke (evyncke); Michael Behringer (mbehring)
> Subject: comments on draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04
>=20
> Hello,
>=20
> I've reviewed draft-ietf-opsec-lla-only-04, see my comments below.
>=20
>=20
> 1) 2.1.  The Approach
>=20
> "Neither global IPv6 addresses nor unique local addresses are
>    configured on infrastructure links.  "
>=20
> [comment] Formally ULAs are of the global scope so maybe re-phrasing to
> "neither globally routed addresses nor unique local addresses".
>=20
>=20
> 2) 2.1.  The Approach
> " [RFC6724] mandates that greater than link-local scope IPv6 addresses
>    must be used as the source IPv6 address for all generated ICMPv6
>    messages sent to a non link-local address.
> "
>=20
> [comment] As I mentioned in Vancouver, I think this statement is not
> absolutely accurate.
> What RFC6724 mandates is that *if* candidate source addresses set contain=
s
> link-local and global addresses, then global address is preferred for
> global destinations.
> Therefore it is possible to chose link-local source for global destinatio=
n
> in some cases.
> For example,  ND redirects MUST be sent from link-local address (RFC4861,
> Section 4.5) while the destination may be global address.
> Speaking of candidate set for DAS..
> RFC6724 says:
> "It is RECOMMENDED that the candidate source addresses be the set of
>    unicast addresses assigned to the interface that will be used to send
>    to the destination (the "outgoing" interface).  On routers, the
>    candidate set MAY include unicast addresses assigned to any interface
>    that forwards packets, subject to the restrictions described below.
>    Implementations that wish to support the use of global source
>    addresses assigned to a loopback interface MUST behave as if the
>    loopback interface originates and forwards the packet."
>=20
> Which means that it some implementations might not include lo0 into the
> candidate set, in which case a router might use link-local as a source
> which leads to operational issues and makes the troubleshooting more
> difficult. I think it worth be discussed in the 'Caveats'
> section.
>=20
> 3) 2.1.  The Approach
>       "Control plane protocols, such as BGP [RFC4271], ISIS [IS-IS],
>       OSPFv3 [RFC5340], RIPng [RFC2080], PIM [RFC4609] work by default
>       or can be configured to work with link-local addresses.......
> We therefore conclude that it is possible to construct a working
>    network in this way."
>=20
> [comment] However there are protocols which may experience issues in such
> topology (RSVP). While you do mention RSVP later,  this section discusses
> the effect on specific traffic types, so I'd suggest that you add a
> sentence or two about protocols which might not work and clarify that it
> is possible to construct a working network if those protocols are not in
> use.
>=20
> 4) 2.1.  The Approach
> "ICMP error message can be sourced from a loopback interface.  They
>       must not be sourced from link-local addresses when the destination
>       is non link-local."
>=20
> See my comment #2 - applies here as well.
>=20
>=20
> 5) 2.2.  Advantages
> [comment] If I were you, I'd reordered the paragraphs. IMHO, lower
> configuration complexity & simpler DNS are the main advantages of the
> suggested approach, then routing table reduction.
> Reducing attack surface does not sound like a really big advantage
> providing that risk can easily be mitigated - so probably it would make
> sense to put it at the end of the section. What do you think?
>=20
> "Lower configuration complexity: link-local addresses require no
>    specific configuration, thereby lowering the complexity and size of
>    router configurations.  This also reduces the likelihood of
>    configuration mistakes."
>=20
> [comment] I'd also mention that it simplifies the whole address managemen=
t
> process.
>=20
> 6)2.3. Caveats
>=20
> "
> Traceroute: similar to the ping case, a reply to a traceroute packet
>    would come from the address of a loopback interface, and current
>    implementations do not display the specific interface the packets
>    came in on.  Also here, RFC5837 [RFC5837] provides a solution.
> "
>=20
> [comment] in the traceroute/ping section you are saying that RFC5837
> provides a solution.
> However there are two problems and only one might be solved by including
> interface identifier into ICMPv6. The first problem is to
> *see* which interface the packet arrived via. RFC5837 does help with it.
> The second issue is that we are losing the ability to control the path of
> the packet and specify which interface the traceroute/ping packet should
> arrive on. It is especially useful for packet loss troubleshooting. Would
> it be possible to clarify that RFC5837 provided only partical solution?
>=20
>=20
> 7) 2.3. Caveats
> "
>=20
> Hardware dependency:.....
> LLAs can
>    be statically configured such as fe80::1 and fe80::2 which can be
>    used to configure any required static routing neighborship.  This
>    static configuration is similar in complexity to statically
>    configured greater than link-local addresses"
>=20
> [comment] I'd say that the complexity is higher as such approach
> introduces an additional complexity in monitoring/troubleshooting.
> Such configuration results in situation when an operator has to deal with
> messages like 'BGP neighbor fe80::1%ae1 is down' which might be confusing
> and requires additional efforts to identify neighbors. This also applies
> to the next paragraph about NMS toolkit: an operator needs to ensure that
> NMS and other tools support link-local addresses not just for router
> interfaces but for protocol configuration (such as BGP peers etc).
>=20
> 8) 2.4.  Internet Exchange Points
> [comment] It would be great to see two subsection discussing advantages
> and caveats like it is done above.
>=20
>=20
> Typos found:
>=20
> 1)
> 1.  Introduction
> s/OPSF/OSPF/
>=20
> 2)
> 2.3.  Caveats
> s/implementions/implementations/
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry
