From liliw@juniper.net Fri Jun 3 08:00:35 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 287FEE06E9 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2011 08:00:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lMRqEon79onl for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2011 08:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F1C8E06B9 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2011 08:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTej3B/0CuiIn/BGATlGACQMFQadSVujW@postini.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 08:00:34 PDT Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:58:45 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Fri, 3 Jun 2011 10:58:44 -0400 From: Lili Wang To: Richard Ogier , "ospf@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 10:58:44 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] OSPF Hybrid Broadcast and P2MP Interface Type Thread-Index: AcwUq9e588foid88QouY/MyCsY9f8wNTmLvw Message-ID: References: <1D23749D4168CC4D8B8652397B5F6432041769BB@XMB-RCD-206.cisco.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456B03C2377D6@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <1D23749D4168CC4D8B8652397B5F643204176A6C@XMB-RCD-206.cisco.com> <4D5474C5.1050107@juniper.net> <4D9F590A.5050008@earthlink.net> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D340CA09EE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <4DD29C97.60705@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4DD29C97.60705@earthlink.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Jeffrey \(Zhaohui\) Zhang" Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Hybrid Broadcast and P2MP Interface Type X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 15:00:35 -0000 Hi Richard, Sorry for the late reply! Yes, this is a problem with the current spec. We incorrectly convinced our= selves that such a check is not required. Here's the proposed change. We make sure the non-DR router have a synchronized database with the DR bef= ore advertising the Type 1 link to other non-DR router. We declare the DR as a fully synchronized adjacency after having all the DR= 's LSA request satisfied (i.e., Our LSA update for the LSA requests are ack= nowledged by the DR.) in addition to having a full adjacency with the DR.=20 The rule then will look like the following: =20 o If a router is not the DR and has a fully synchronized adjacency to the = DR, it MUST add a Type 1 link corresponding to each neighbor that is in state 2-Way or higher. Tanks, Lili -----Original Message----- From: ospf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ric= hard Ogier Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:05 PM To: ospf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Hybrid Broadcast and P2MP Interface Type Section 3.6 of draft-nsheth-ospf-hybrid-bcast-and-p2mp-01 has the following rule: o If a router is not the DR and has a full adjacency to the DR, it MUST add a Type 1 link corresponding to each neighbor that is in state 2-Way or higher. Suppose i and j are non-DR routers. It seems to me that i should also require that the DR's router-LSA include a link to j before i adds a Type 1 link corresponding to j, in order to ensure that i and j are fully synchronized before either uses the other as a next hop. Is there a reason why this condition was omitted? To explain further, the SPT calculation (Section 16.1 of RFC 2328) requires that router j advertise a link back to router i before i can use j as a next hop (and vice versa). Thus, routers i and j can use each other as a next hop if they both advertise a link to each other. Therefore, the above rule from draft-nsheth only ensures that routers i and j are fully adjacent with the DR before either can use the other as a next hop. As a result, the DR might not be fully adjacent with router i or j, and thus i and j may not be fully synchronized. Note that full adjacency with a neighbor does not imply that the link state databases are synchronized (see footnote 23 in RFC 2328). It only means that the router is at least as up-to-date as the neighbor, since it only means that all Link State Requests have been satisfied. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Richard _______________________________________________ OSPF mailing list OSPF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf From ogier@earthlink.net Mon Jun 6 20:46:42 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B671F0C4C for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 20:46:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y3nHOYocpVEj for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 20:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A324B1F0C44 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 20:46:41 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=F0GRi9TsrNqCGKh0uunxPHpFkwB2kMUgWQFNz1AZr/An9J5bwGxCR0TIlxDY+FZy; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:X-Accept-Language:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.81.246.143] by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1QTnFX-0006fu-28; Mon, 06 Jun 2011 23:46:40 -0400 Message-ID: <4DED9FDA.5060108@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:49:46 -0700 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lili Wang References: <1D23749D4168CC4D8B8652397B5F6432041769BB@XMB-RCD-206.cisco.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456B03C2377D6@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <1D23749D4168CC4D8B8652397B5F643204176A6C@XMB-RCD-206.cisco.com> <4D5474C5.1050107@juniper.net> <4D9F590A.5050008@earthlink.net> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D340CA09EE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <4DD29C97.60705@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: a073897a9455599e74bf435c0eb9d4787b1ed7a12fe76a0a612c968caef20566cce0df2f6ec2329b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.81.246.143 Cc: "Jeffrey \(Zhaohui\) Zhang" , "ospf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Hybrid Broadcast and P2MP Interface Type X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 03:46:42 -0000 Hi Lili, Your proposed change assumes that the non-DR router knows when the DR has finished sending LS request packets. I am not sure this can be assumed, since a router doesn't indicate when it is finished sending LS request packets (and might not send any). I think the only indication is when the DR declares the adjacency to be Full when the LoadingDone event occurs (and adds the neighbor to its LSA). Even if the non-DR router determines via Database Description packets that the DR has out-of-date LSAs, the DR could receive those LSAs from another router. It seems easier to just require that the DR's LSA include a link to the router itself (router i in my example), or to the other non-DR router j (which is what I used in my draft), before router i includes a link to j in its router-LSA. I prefer the latter because then router i advertises a link to j only if router i is Full with the DR and the DR is Full with router j. Thus, by transitivity router i is equivalent to being Full with router j (i.e., router i is as up-to-date as router j). Richard Lili Wang wrote: >Hi Richard, > > Sorry for the late reply! > >Yes, this is a problem with the current spec. We incorrectly convinced ourselves that such a check is not required. > >Here's the proposed change. > >We make sure the non-DR router have a synchronized database with the DR before advertising the Type 1 link to other non-DR router. >We declare the DR as a fully synchronized adjacency after having all the DR's LSA request satisfied (i.e., Our LSA update for the LSA requests are acknowledged by the DR.) in addition to having a full adjacency with the DR. > >The rule then will look like the following: > >o If a router is not the DR and has a fully synchronized adjacency to the DR, it MUST add a Type 1 link corresponding to each neighbor that is in >state 2-Way or higher. > > >Tanks, > >Lili >-----Original Message----- >From: ospf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Richard Ogier >Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:05 PM >To: ospf@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Hybrid Broadcast and P2MP Interface Type > >Section 3.6 of draft-nsheth-ospf-hybrid-bcast-and-p2mp-01 >has the following rule: > >o If a router is not the DR and has a full adjacency to the DR, it > MUST add a Type 1 link corresponding to each neighbor that is in > state 2-Way or higher. > >Suppose i and j are non-DR routers. It seems to me that i should >also require that the DR's router-LSA include a link to j before >i adds a Type 1 link corresponding to j, in order to ensure that >i and j are fully synchronized before either uses the other as >a next hop. Is there a reason why this condition was omitted? > >To explain further, the SPT calculation (Section 16.1 of RFC 2328) >requires that router j advertise a link back to router i before i >can use j as a next hop (and vice versa). Thus, routers i and j can use >each other as a next hop if they both advertise a link to each other. > >Therefore, the above rule from draft-nsheth only ensures that >routers i and j are fully adjacent with the DR before either can >use the other as a next hop. As a result, the DR might not be fully >adjacent with router i or j, and thus i and j may not be fully >synchronized. Note that full adjacency with a neighbor does not >imply that the link state databases are synchronized (see footnote 23 >in RFC 2328). It only means that the router is at least as >up-to-date as the neighbor, since it only means that all Link >State Requests have been satisfied. > >Please correct me if I am mistaken. > >Richard >_______________________________________________ >OSPF mailing list >OSPF@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > > > From liliw@juniper.net Mon Jun 13 06:12:44 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37FEB21F8511 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:12:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fMdlYbiDN9ho for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og120.obsmtp.com (exprod7og120.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8252221F850E for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob120.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTfYMyQMiR24Wnneus2U5ZMmaYbb+ZnPn@postini.com; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:12:43 PDT Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:10:19 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:10:18 -0400 From: Lili Wang To: Richard Ogier Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:10:17 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] OSPF Hybrid Broadcast and P2MP Interface Type Thread-Index: AcwkxYRxCnttcy9IT7+zloBf65D8yAFBGkqw Message-ID: References: <1D23749D4168CC4D8B8652397B5F6432041769BB@XMB-RCD-206.cisco.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456B03C2377D6@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <1D23749D4168CC4D8B8652397B5F643204176A6C@XMB-RCD-206.cisco.com> <4D5474C5.1050107@juniper.net> <4D9F590A.5050008@earthlink.net> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D340CA09EE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <4DD29C97.60705@earthlink.net> <4DED9FDA.5060108@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4DED9FDA.5060108@earthlink.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Jeffrey \(Zhaohui\) Zhang" , "ospf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Hybrid Broadcast and P2MP Interface Type X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:12:44 -0000 >It seems easier to just require that the DR's LSA include a link to >the router itself (router i in my example), or to the other non-DR >router j (which is what I used in my draft), before router i includes >a link to j in its router-LSA. I prefer the latter because then >router i advertises a link to j only if router i is Full with the DR >and the DR is Full with router j. Thus, by transitivity router i is >equivalent to being Full with router j (i.e., router i is as >up-to-date as router j). Hi Richard, =20 We agree with you. Originally we thought about this approach but we later went for other appro= ach. Now we think that this approach is more robust to make sure=20 that router i and router j have synchronized database. =20 We prefer the latter option, too. Thanks, Lili From stbryant@cisco.com Thu Jun 16 08:19:25 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58559E8040; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:19:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7zDqDNdnQX9B; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEF669E8030; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:19:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=stbryant@cisco.com; l=279; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1308237564; x=1309447164; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: content-transfer-encoding; bh=S9zGN1LdAe6MntNsvalgmpYl7kzhVxXjIASs+75VgzM=; b=eYIfbGIFDafj4wUSAsXfpslcw7R+NUEl4LNB0NX7g41llePFBZcJmXX1 SrIKN/R8Uq9eBSQ/l96JpbjtX1Y1i6K+JRmAE2RbYhMI0XHHAOO3eNt9b ++A2XX1mQLs/8bVIZwDASdNWKvrteYFYAEsZWWcmCAvXjht6Cbt+khowO k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAMke+k2Q/khR/2dsb2JhbABSpmB3qx6DDw8BmwSGJwSRWY93 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,375,1304294400"; d="scan'208";a="35546260" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Jun 2011 15:19:06 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p5GFJ1sb028328; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:19:01 GMT Received: from dhcp-gpk02-vlan300-64-103-65-106.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id p5GFJ0qB015263; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:19:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4DFA1F0E.8030401@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:19:42 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 00000@cisco.com, karp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ospf@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@tools.ietf.org, "karp-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [OSPF] Review request draft-ietf-ospf-auth-trailer-ospfv3 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:19:25 -0000 KARP WG, A publication request has been made for the following draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-auth-trailer-ospfv3/ I am sending it to you for your review. Please provide any comments that you may have by Friday 1st July. Thanks Stewart From spencer.giacalone@gmail.com Mon Jun 20 13:30:25 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E4A1F0C6F for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:30:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sG3f9ZJqORt9 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f172.google.com (mail-iw0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B411F0C38 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iwn39 with SMTP id 39so1432801iwn.31 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:30:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=YH0fbRD3D/9+YENGsNb0Q+eyUVbSuJJP02aoy7rwrt4=; b=djD91kayJtOSna1XCehtM5mXEvCdSUoYWPZgyurGnpmArtOug19Y2Yjry2aX2R5Fwq U7GhjOBxtNBVbszruZaSnQr7zhU8qpfOUwARCLxt1J3f37xF7ybQRGXL1jjdaM9L/Lr5 detnB2T6l8azIkiQWjPNdTUZt8zqtpMxzMOg0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=bIInuQhSQMUwXi71TNa+RwQFrZXgHedu0VMkUTq1swiBMZH50U+FZrD0R61FG9F14u 1y8w8Y/hawJeOVzt1cUb0eRr5PxGclX+pRVs0f/4XDXwB3QHQKz3+Nt7UH30S7D0kfKD TXoBX7v5gw7utuLX37AW7qGjxp5s36WiWpGWE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.111.39 with SMTP id q39mr445661ibp.106.1308601821616; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.143.79 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:30:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Spencer Giacalone To: ospf@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 20:30:25 -0000 Hello everyone, As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express Path draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on feedback from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main changes include: -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal performance for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we used to have four). -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network performance state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) but has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the measured value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A bit is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured reuse threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady state link performance. -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point to fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the draft. In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity and interoperability. -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] minus the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, the thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the draft We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. Thanks, Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Tue Jun 21 09:49:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD69711E82A9; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:49:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iXkERsVFDZPI; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DD8911E80B7; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p5LGnpEP008770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:49:51 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.54]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:49:50 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: Spencer Giacalone Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:49:49 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 Thread-Index: AcwwMzzB/1U/fhqjT/K04Lv1rcaJ+w== Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: OSPF WG List , CCAMP Subject: Re: [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:49:55 -0000 Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), Here is a link for everyone's convenience:=20 http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt =20 At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP drafts cont= aining interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub-TLVs. Have you = or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is positioned versus thes= e other drafts? While these applications have differing goals, the CCAMP/OS= PF chairs requested that this analysis be done.=20 http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt We would like to avoid having exactly the same information advertised in tw= o different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on common units.=20 Thanks, Acee On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: > Hello everyone, >=20 > As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express Path > draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on feedback > from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main > changes include: >=20 > -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no > longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The > functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal performance > for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we used > to have four). >=20 > -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network performance > state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) but > has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the measured > value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A bit > is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured reuse > threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady state > link performance. >=20 > -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point to > fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when > necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it > permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the draft. > In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity and > interoperability. >=20 > -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. > Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] minus > the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available bandwidth > is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth used > for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. >=20 > -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These > include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, the > thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. >=20 > -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the draft >=20 > We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf From akatlas@gmail.com Tue Jun 21 11:08:22 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BB211E8114; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:08:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vLjApsiIDum1; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com (mail-pz0-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7950811E8171; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pzk5 with SMTP id 5so11431pzk.31 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:08:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gkEg6M/c1t7goJptoN/k7f7yi+LpNpfD+yINgWsroK4=; b=P03ilzPNI8fR0/joQw6h8vLeQiWBzNpCWm1siCMW8c1FB8AuEu5e/UC4aMV4WWUA5K rjz66rZIZrhhagWBpsPqkEl073Y+2nCVAktKr8CHnoZDFnBWD3jvdJUhy2+G3xjjoM5/ LFCD0CBozDuGqkLhKyoWjtWZlSsv4W93ibLb0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=L3a2dnWAxycd7aB46njRvXtjpKNhw2N20RwDfJxd9Dx4MofprB2b4QQq6r+yYwa5ME WNRVxh48EuG0h8sg4lddKLk3pDXserak3kGs6P+YbGOlUlmhgDRPoqR3qDsIOMzCj8gn 3fZBrkpnUqrVckfNLCuyJ4lxaImY3WqJRv1c8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.13.73 with SMTP id f9mr3245700pbc.100.1308679700972; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.46.98 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:08:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Acee Lindem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: CCAMP , OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:08:22 -0000 Hi Acee, John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. It had a large number of requirements and extensions to a number of different protocols. There is one sub-TLV (latency) that appears the same - but the expectations as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't specify in exact detail how the information for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. I think it could be used for multiple purposes. Alia On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem wr= ote: > Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), > > Here is a link for everyone's convenience: > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt > > At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP drafts co= ntaining interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub-TLVs. Have yo= u or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is positioned versus th= ese other drafts? While these applications have differing goals, the CCAMP/= OSPF chairs requested that this analysis be done. > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt > > We would like to avoid having exactly the same information advertised in = two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on common units. > > Thanks, > Acee > > On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: > >> Hello everyone, >> >> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express Path >> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on feedback >> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main >> changes include: >> >> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no >> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The >> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal performance >> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we used >> to have four). >> >> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network performance >> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) but >> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the measured >> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A bit >> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured reuse >> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady state >> link performance. >> >> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point to >> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when >> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it >> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the draft. >> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity and >> interoperability. >> >> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. >> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] minus >> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available bandwidth >> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth used >> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. >> >> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These >> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, the >> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. >> >> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the draft >> >> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano >> _______________________________________________ >> OSPF mailing list >> OSPF@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Tue Jun 21 18:06:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F90E11E8115; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OhtV8RzGa4UL; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1905E11E8106; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p5M16JH6024978; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:06:20 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.54]) by eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) with mapi; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:06:14 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: Alia Atlas Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:06:11 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 Thread-Index: AcwweJR99ae/dhPGS1adzwxBejv3Dg== Message-ID: <9AA9A2E7-ECDC-4FF0-A1B0-00808617D764@ericsson.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: CCAMP , OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 01:06:54 -0000 Hi Alia, I guess I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in the MP= LS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we should give th= e decision explicit consideration before we branch off and do TE for applic= ation X independently. Additionally, if we do decide to split this off inde= pendently, an E-mail to the list saying there is no overlap is not sufficie= nt to move forward. At a minimum, I believe we need to: 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and relationship to = existing TE in the draft. 2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was consiste= nt with yours that there are not due to differences in requirements and mea= surement).=20 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion betwee= n the latency applications.=20 =20 Thanks, Acee=20 On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > Hi Acee, >=20 > John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. It > had a large number of requirements and extensions to > a number of different protocols. There is one sub-TLV (latency) that > appears the same - but the expectations > as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. >=20 > The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't > specify in exact detail how the information > for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. I think it could be used > for multiple purposes. >=20 > Alia >=20 > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem = wrote: >> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), >>=20 >> Here is a link for everyone's convenience: >>=20 >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt >>=20 >> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP drafts c= ontaining interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub-TLVs. Have y= ou or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is positioned versus t= hese other drafts? While these applications have differing goals, the CCAMP= /OSPF chairs requested that this analysis be done. >>=20 >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt >>=20 >> We would like to avoid having exactly the same information advertised in= two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on common units. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Acee >>=20 >> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: >>=20 >>> Hello everyone, >>>=20 >>> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express Path >>> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on feedback >>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main >>> changes include: >>>=20 >>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no >>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The >>> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal performance >>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we used >>> to have four). >>>=20 >>> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network performance >>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) but >>> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the measured >>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A bit >>> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured reuse >>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady state >>> link performance. >>>=20 >>> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point to >>> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when >>> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it >>> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the draft. >>> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity and >>> interoperability. >>>=20 >>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. >>> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] minus >>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available bandwidth >>> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth used >>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. >>>=20 >>> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These >>> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, the >>> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. >>>=20 >>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the draft >>>=20 >>> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>>=20 >>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSPF mailing list >>> OSPF@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> OSPF mailing list >> OSPF@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>=20 From akatlas@gmail.com Tue Jun 21 18:45:06 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E3C21F8531; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:45:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8weTHb6v3aXO; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pv0-f172.google.com (mail-pv0-f172.google.com [74.125.83.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC95A21F8530; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pvh18 with SMTP id 18so224710pvh.31 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9LzweupfQ7a+2myZL6v28MH5MKU1zPHqVIpuCCcDbaw=; b=ldFYJVi4bb2SNlPUYUxjAjLa+VLKKrsXPfv60kEbmz0bbFJ+YgZa2wSvfiyoutryKg g1T9u3YORQ+jWuwZSMd1q16YzPszYgeHhzhhYCObVZ3AuzMqDuJq+iqwIBA+/0/ILPbq unRkDufHya3lqpLm+ljOpUe8ktRQekLk1CqsY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=UMl9negi25Yc6mM8GRp+ofvwUzwhKshaOiHOCXoYkUdGRVZfNh4n3QSe3EYVrkX3Ab QlK0zycST9LKFTjMgByCTKt7xiBysso0QBoG7heoFjpr8uh/VA7LGVjq35+JQbgi7h0w lUVxJZtSkD/wF2f7wMFsYoPxO3JGgNHLgP7sc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.49.227 with SMTP id x3mr50637pbn.33.1308707104474; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.46.98 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:45:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9AA9A2E7-ECDC-4FF0-A1B0-00808617D764@ericsson.com> References: <9AA9A2E7-ECDC-4FF0-A1B0-00808617D764@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:45:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Acee Lindem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: CCAMP , OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 01:45:06 -0000 Hi Acee, I do agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & work on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused. I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consideration; to give this the exposure necessary and consideration for applications was why we had this draft discussed in rtgwg as well as ospf. In addition to the obvious uses for RSVP-TE, another potential application is the idea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is split to the different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths out those next-hops. This is a pure IP application (LDP follows of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of those options when considering the RSVP-TE applications. Alia On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem wro= te: > Hi Alia, > I guess I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in the = MPLS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we should give = the decision explicit consideration before we branch off and do TE for appl= ication X independently. Additionally, if we do decide to split this off in= dependently, an E-mail to the list saying there is no overlap is not suffic= ient to move forward. At a minimum, I believe we need to: > > =A0 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and relationship = to existing TE in the draft. > =A0 2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was consi= stent with yours that there are not due to differences in requirements and = measurement). > =A0 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion bet= ween the latency applications. > > Thanks, > Acee > On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > >> Hi Acee, >> >> John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. =A0It >> had a large number of requirements and extensions to >> a number of different protocols. =A0There is one sub-TLV (latency) that >> appears the same - but the expectations >> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. >> >> The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't >> specify in exact detail how the information >> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. =A0I think it could be used >> for multiple purposes. >> >> Alia >> >> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem = wrote: >>> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), >>> >>> Here is a link for everyone's convenience: >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt >>> >>> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP drafts = containing interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub-TLVs. Have = you or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is positioned versus = these other drafts? While these applications have differing goals, the CCAM= P/OSPF chairs requested that this analysis be done. >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt >>> >>> We would like to avoid having exactly the same information advertised i= n two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on common units. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Acee >>> >>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: >>> >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> >>>> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express Path >>>> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on feedback >>>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main >>>> changes include: >>>> >>>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no >>>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The >>>> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal performance >>>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we used >>>> to have four). >>>> >>>> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network performance >>>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) but >>>> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the measured >>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A bit >>>> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured reuse >>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady state >>>> link performance. >>>> >>>> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point to >>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when >>>> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it >>>> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the draft. >>>> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity and >>>> interoperability. >>>> >>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. >>>> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] minus >>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available bandwidth >>>> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth used >>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. >>>> >>>> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These >>>> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, the >>>> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. >>>> >>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the draft >>>> >>>> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OSPF mailing list >>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSPF mailing list >>> OSPF@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>> > > From jdrake@juniper.net Tue Jun 21 20:17:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CB5321F8482; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:17:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6LHznbIIW-iU; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og127.obsmtp.com (exprod7og127.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D1121F8481; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob127.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTgFe1YAju3rTG+Pcu+rAwKdBpby+F6aF@postini.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:17:44 PDT Received: from EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::c821:7c81:f21f:8bc7]) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::88f9:77fd:dfc:4d51%11]) with mapi; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:10:52 -0700 From: John E Drake To: Alia Atlas , Acee Lindem Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:10:46 -0700 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 Thread-Index: Acwwfk2ZV8hJzj/4QVOUrpCKQrfzhAACzV8g Message-ID: <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A803F422@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> References: <9AA9A2E7-ECDC-4FF0-A1B0-00808617D764@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: CCAMP , OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 03:17:46 -0000 Hi, I am a bit confused. I thought the proper home for this work would either = be the rtg wg or the mpls wg. I thought it was presented to the OSPF wg fo= r information only. Thanks, John=20 Sent from my iPhone > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Alia Atlas > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:45 PM > To: Acee Lindem > Cc: Spencer Giacalone; CCAMP; OSPF WG List > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 >=20 > Hi Acee, >=20 > I do agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & work > on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused. > I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consideration; > to give this the exposure necessary and consideration for > applications was why we had this draft discussed in rtgwg as well as > ospf. >=20 > In addition to the obvious uses for RSVP-TE, another potential > application is the idea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is > split to the different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths > out those next-hops. This is a pure IP application (LDP follows > of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of those options when > considering the RSVP-TE applications. >=20 > Alia >=20 > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem > wrote: > > Hi Alia, > > I guess I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in > the MPLS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we > should give the decision explicit consideration before we branch off > and do TE for application X independently. Additionally, if we do > decide to split this off independently, an E-mail to the list saying > there is no overlap is not sufficient to move forward. At a minimum, I > believe we need to: > > > > =A0 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and > relationship to existing TE in the draft. > > =A0 2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was > consistent with yours that there are not due to differences in > requirements and measurement). > > =A0 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion > between the latency applications. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > > > >> Hi Acee, > >> > >> John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. > =A0It > >> had a large number of requirements and extensions to > >> a number of different protocols. =A0There is one sub-TLV (latency) > that > >> appears the same - but the expectations > >> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. > >> > >> The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't > >> specify in exact detail how the information > >> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. =A0I think it could be used > >> for multiple purposes. > >> > >> Alia > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem > wrote: > >>> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), > >>> > >>> Here is a link for everyone's convenience: > >>> > >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt > >>> > >>> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP > drafts containing interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub- > TLVs. Have you or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is > positioned versus these other drafts? While these applications have > differing goals, the CCAMP/OSPF chairs requested that this analysis be > done. > >>> > >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt > >>> > >>> We would like to avoid having exactly the same information > advertised in two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on > common units. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Acee > >>> > >>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello everyone, > >>>> > >>>> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express > Path > >>>> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on > feedback > >>>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main > >>>> changes include: > >>>> > >>>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no > >>>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The > >>>> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal > performance > >>>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we > used > >>>> to have four). > >>>> > >>>> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network > performance > >>>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) > but > >>>> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the > measured > >>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A > bit > >>>> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured > reuse > >>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady > state > >>>> link performance. > >>>> > >>>> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point > to > >>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when > >>>> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it > >>>> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the > draft. > >>>> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity > and > >>>> interoperability. > >>>> > >>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. > >>>> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] > minus > >>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available > bandwidth > >>>> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth > used > >>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. > >>>> > >>>> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These > >>>> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, > the > >>>> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. > >>>> > >>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the > draft > >>>> > >>>> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> > >>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> OSPF mailing list > >>>> OSPF@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> OSPF mailing list > >>> OSPF@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > >>> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From raszuk@cisco.com Wed Jun 22 01:23:06 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CAB011E80C3; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 01:23:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.417 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.417 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.182, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JaWiHfkV5vhZ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 01:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67AF411E80BF; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 01:23:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=raszuk@cisco.com; l=2048; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1308730985; x=1309940585; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LJ7vRJSZUi+3fYKX0ZghSkrJe60xbqbzAuR/UoP9dNM=; b=cfFsEH2whGKC4lKls0rU+1MSDBzKTrjVKCTbfdoGdHkqPwRQdnmlc2Y0 DPSUtiFVVuY+9PpCBxxt0OfpeusZGeW/L1OY59YN1VBE6VojT3Sld4J9r ec/ZzSa4EQKFAvqfiQQSPZFp8vvSYp5bl6onaiWfT3U4h2mf2BosJ1e6M 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvYAAA+lAU6rRDoH/2dsb2JhbABUl3WPGXeIc6EygxEPAZschi0EkWqEZYsp X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,405,1304294400"; d="scan'208";a="343789206" Received: from mtv-core-2.cisco.com ([171.68.58.7]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2011 08:22:57 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.66] (sjc-raszuk-87113.cisco.com [10.20.147.254]) by mtv-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p5M8MtGk019318; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:22:55 GMT Message-ID: <4E01A661.6030601@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:22:57 +0200 From: Robert Raszuk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John E Drake References: <9AA9A2E7-ECDC-4FF0-A1B0-00808617D764@ericsson.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A803F422@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A803F422@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: OSPF WG List , CCAMP Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: raszuk@cisco.com List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:23:06 -0000 Hi John, Protocol extensions should be standardized by the WG focusing on the protocol .. be it OSPF, ISIS, BGP you name it. It may very easily compromise operation of the base protocol if done incorrectly. Very recently we went via very similar discussions reg route server and while it does not even introduce any new changes to BGP protocol on the wire .. changes to BGP state were sufficient reason to split the draft into operational focus in GROW WG and BGP behaviour change in IDR WG. Similarly here rtg wg or mpls wg could define in separate documents how you are going to use newly flooded information or how you are going to collect and populate those information into IGPs. Rgs, R. > Hi, > > I am a bit confused. I thought the proper home for this work would > either be the rtg wg or the mpls wg. I thought it was presented to > the OSPF wg for information only. > > Thanks, > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > >> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alia Atlas Sent: >> Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:45 PM To: Acee Lindem Cc: Spencer >> Giacalone; CCAMP; OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] >> draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 >> >> Hi Acee, >> >> I do agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft& >> work on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused. I >> also agree that we need to give the decision explicit >> consideration; to give this the exposure necessary and >> consideration for applications was why we had this draft discussed >> in rtgwg as well as ospf. >> >> In addition to the obvious uses for RSVP-TE, another potential >> application is the idea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is >> split to the different next-hops based upon the total path >> bandwidths out those next-hops. This is a pure IP application (LDP >> follows of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of those >> options when considering the RSVP-TE applications. >> >> Alia From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Wed Jun 22 05:33:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C17711E813F; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 05:33:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WzZU7uLn4uVZ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 05:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3AB11E80D0; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 05:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p5MCXmuC015377; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 07:33:49 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.54]) by eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) with mapi; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:33:46 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: Alia Atlas Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:33:43 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 Thread-Index: Acww2KCuvMDjk+drTuenSoxLMCxaWQ== Message-ID: References: <9AA9A2E7-ECDC-4FF0-A1B0-00808617D764@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: CCAMP , OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:33:53 -0000 Hi Alia,=20 On Jun 21, 2011, at 9:45 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > Hi Acee, >=20 > I do agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & work > on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused. Note that it may be the it may be the names in the Y.1540/Y.1541 TE latency= draft that need further qualification since their definitions are more str= ictly scoped. Anyway, lets see how the discussion on where this should be d= one proceeds.=20 > I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consideration; > to give this the exposure necessary and consideration for > applications was why we had this draft discussed in rtgwg as well as ospf= . Great - I think we are in agreement. I'm not adamantly opposed to doing TE = independently for applications falling into this category - I just think we= should have the discussion Lou is proposing.=20 Thanks, Acee=20 >=20 > In addition to the obvious uses for RSVP-TE, another potential > application is the idea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is > split to the different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths > out those next-hops. This is a pure IP application (LDP follows > of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of those options when > considering the RSVP-TE applications. >=20 > Alia >=20 > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem w= rote: >> Hi Alia, >> I guess I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in the= MPLS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we should give= the decision explicit consideration before we branch off and do TE for app= lication X independently. Additionally, if we do decide to split this off i= ndependently, an E-mail to the list saying there is no overlap is not suffi= cient to move forward. At a minimum, I believe we need to: >>=20 >> 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and relationship t= o existing TE in the draft. >> 2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was consis= tent with yours that there are not due to differences in requirements and m= easurement). >> 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion betw= een the latency applications. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Acee >> On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Acee, >>>=20 >>> John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. It >>> had a large number of requirements and extensions to >>> a number of different protocols. There is one sub-TLV (latency) that >>> appears the same - but the expectations >>> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. >>>=20 >>> The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't >>> specify in exact detail how the information >>> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. I think it could be used >>> for multiple purposes. >>>=20 >>> Alia >>>=20 >>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem wrote: >>>> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), >>>>=20 >>>> Here is a link for everyone's convenience: >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt >>>>=20 >>>> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP drafts= containing interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub-TLVs. Have= you or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is positioned versus= these other drafts? While these applications have differing goals, the CCA= MP/OSPF chairs requested that this analysis be done. >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt >>>>=20 >>>> We would like to avoid having exactly the same information advertised = in two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on common units. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Acee >>>>=20 >>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>=20 >>>>> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express Path >>>>> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on feedback >>>>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main >>>>> changes include: >>>>>=20 >>>>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no >>>>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The >>>>> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal performance >>>>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we used >>>>> to have four). >>>>>=20 >>>>> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network performance >>>>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) but >>>>> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the measure= d >>>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A bi= t >>>>> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured reuse >>>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady state >>>>> link performance. >>>>>=20 >>>>> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point to >>>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when >>>>> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it >>>>> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the draft. >>>>> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity and >>>>> interoperability. >>>>>=20 >>>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. >>>>> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] minu= s >>>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available bandwidt= h >>>>> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth used >>>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. >>>>>=20 >>>>> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These >>>>> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, the >>>>> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. >>>>>=20 >>>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the draft >>>>>=20 >>>>> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OSPF mailing list >>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Wed Jun 22 05:40:11 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B2111E810F; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 05:40:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bF4VPF-ybp71; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 05:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EACC11E80D4; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 05:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p5MCe2HC015958; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 07:40:07 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.54]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:40:06 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: John E Drake Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:40:01 -0400 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 Thread-Index: Acww2YNKmJJM/9C4QQ2SV+eP06Aqdg== Message-ID: <6268B75A-0841-4F97-BC85-589CECF97FD3@ericsson.com> References: <9AA9A2E7-ECDC-4FF0-A1B0-00808617D764@ericsson.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A803F422@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A803F422@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: CCAMP , OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:40:11 -0000 Hi John,=20 As it stands, the draft contains mainly OSPF TE encodings and consideration= s. Hence, my inclination would be to keep it in the OSPF WG. However, I'm w= illing to listen to other proposals.=20 Thanks, Acee On Jun 21, 2011, at 11:10 PM, John E Drake wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I am a bit confused. I thought the proper home for this work would eithe= r be the rtg wg or the mpls wg. I thought it was presented to the OSPF wg = for information only. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > John=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of Alia Atlas >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:45 PM >> To: Acee Lindem >> Cc: Spencer Giacalone; CCAMP; OSPF WG List >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 >>=20 >> Hi Acee, >>=20 >> I do agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & work >> on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused. >> I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consideration; >> to give this the exposure necessary and consideration for >> applications was why we had this draft discussed in rtgwg as well as >> ospf. >>=20 >> In addition to the obvious uses for RSVP-TE, another potential >> application is the idea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is >> split to the different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths >> out those next-hops. This is a pure IP application (LDP follows >> of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of those options when >> considering the RSVP-TE applications. >>=20 >> Alia >>=20 >> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem >> wrote: >>> Hi Alia, >>> I guess I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in >> the MPLS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we >> should give the decision explicit consideration before we branch off >> and do TE for application X independently. Additionally, if we do >> decide to split this off independently, an E-mail to the list saying >> there is no overlap is not sufficient to move forward. At a minimum, I >> believe we need to: >>>=20 >>> 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and >> relationship to existing TE in the draft. >>> 2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was >> consistent with yours that there are not due to differences in >> requirements and measurement). >>> 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion >> between the latency applications. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Acee >>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi Acee, >>>>=20 >>>> John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. >> It >>>> had a large number of requirements and extensions to >>>> a number of different protocols. There is one sub-TLV (latency) >> that >>>> appears the same - but the expectations >>>> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. >>>>=20 >>>> The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't >>>> specify in exact detail how the information >>>> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. I think it could be used >>>> for multiple purposes. >>>>=20 >>>> Alia >>>>=20 >>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem >> wrote: >>>>> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), >>>>>=20 >>>>> Here is a link for everyone's convenience: >>>>>=20 >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt >>>>>=20 >>>>> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP >> drafts containing interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub- >> TLVs. Have you or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is >> positioned versus these other drafts? While these applications have >> differing goals, the CCAMP/OSPF chairs requested that this analysis be >> done. >>>>>=20 >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt >>>>>=20 >>>>> We would like to avoid having exactly the same information >> advertised in two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on >> common units. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Acee >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express >> Path >>>>>> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on >> feedback >>>>>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main >>>>>> changes include: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no >>>>>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The >>>>>> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal >> performance >>>>>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we >> used >>>>>> to have four). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network >> performance >>>>>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) >> but >>>>>> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the >> measured >>>>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A >> bit >>>>>> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured >> reuse >>>>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady >> state >>>>>> link performance. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point >> to >>>>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when >>>>>> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it >>>>>> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the >> draft. >>>>>> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity >> and >>>>>> interoperability. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. >>>>>> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] >> minus >>>>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available >> bandwidth >>>>>> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth >> used >>>>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These >>>>>> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, >> the >>>>>> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the >> draft >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> CCAMP mailing list >> CCAMP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From spencer.giacalone@gmail.com Wed Jun 22 06:17:24 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9EA11E80D8; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:17:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DwkNbVp31kHI; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3793511E80D4; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iye7 with SMTP id 7so927721iye.31 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:17:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ywNQul6FJAopR5fT+xXKNVmf4m89jXrGc5/n8SSKNyA=; b=MHRsc4qRV8ieo+H8FxtdZlsYOBO+Hf0u03RIcjJFhe62SuIqpH/BxWSc23QggJd8cT c3dyHMuo1ZyDDcfiw+LX23DHO+wDlR8ivQEpI2AYip0qh9SrclKd7WfQ3NxlvKTOboUe U37PDTRU4nCpw4m/gC3u4YLNzK0KNMMwTOO0I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=QNjVJrYII+huT8CP4hLE3GZ3zO4zzqCnyDLZNEZkOtSbfX/zdyeNfDMLVR7O325l/Q dK1ESAiRQ1Sn4aUPuAMBMFEyF3Ceusit/5rbM1zwDk21HlMWKn0JfLiAkwMxbS8Qgg7w fdZMYoeU4BC26r/CyYUYwRDwxsCy0ODUOGjFg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.156.195 with SMTP id a3mr778825icx.460.1308748640534; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.143.79 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:17:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6268B75A-0841-4F97-BC85-589CECF97FD3@ericsson.com> References: <9AA9A2E7-ECDC-4FF0-A1B0-00808617D764@ericsson.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A803F422@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <6268B75A-0841-4F97-BC85-589CECF97FD3@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 09:17:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Spencer Giacalone To: Acee Lindem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: CCAMP , OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:17:24 -0000 That was our thought as well. Also, Dave Ward did have some conversations with Lou. Spence On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Acee Lindem wro= te: > Hi John, > As it stands, the draft contains mainly OSPF TE encodings and considerati= ons. Hence, my inclination would be to keep it in the OSPF WG. However, I'm= willing to listen to other proposals. > > Thanks, > Acee > On Jun 21, 2011, at 11:10 PM, John E Drake wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I am a bit confused. =A0I thought the proper home for this work would ei= ther be the rtg wg or the mpls wg. =A0I thought it was presented to the OSP= F wg for information only. >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >>> Of Alia Atlas >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:45 PM >>> To: Acee Lindem >>> Cc: Spencer Giacalone; CCAMP; OSPF WG List >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 >>> >>> Hi Acee, >>> >>> I do agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & work >>> on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused. >>> I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consideration; >>> to give this the exposure necessary and consideration for >>> applications was why we had this draft discussed in rtgwg as well as >>> ospf. >>> >>> In addition to the obvious uses for RSVP-TE, another potential >>> application is the idea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is >>> split to the different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths >>> out those next-hops. =A0This is a pure IP application (LDP follows >>> of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of those options when >>> considering the RSVP-TE applications. >>> >>> Alia >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem >>> wrote: >>>> Hi Alia, >>>> I guess I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in >>> the MPLS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we >>> should give the decision explicit consideration before we branch off >>> and do TE for application X independently. Additionally, if we do >>> decide to split this off independently, an E-mail to the list saying >>> there is no overlap is not sufficient to move forward. At a minimum, I >>> believe we need to: >>>> >>>> =A0 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and >>> relationship to existing TE in the draft. >>>> =A0 2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was >>> consistent with yours that there are not due to differences in >>> requirements and measurement). >>>> =A0 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion >>> between the latency applications. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Acee >>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Acee, >>>>> >>>>> John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. >>> =A0It >>>>> had a large number of requirements and extensions to >>>>> a number of different protocols. =A0There is one sub-TLV (latency) >>> that >>>>> appears the same - but the expectations >>>>> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. >>>>> >>>>> The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't >>>>> specify in exact detail how the information >>>>> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. =A0I think it could be used >>>>> for multiple purposes. >>>>> >>>>> Alia >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem >>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is a link for everyone's convenience: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP >>> drafts containing interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub- >>> TLVs. Have you or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is >>> positioned versus these other drafts? While these applications have >>> differing goals, the CCAMP/OSPF chairs requested that this analysis be >>> done. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> We would like to avoid having exactly the same information >>> advertised in two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on >>> common units. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Acee >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express >>> Path >>>>>>> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on >>> feedback >>>>>>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main >>>>>>> changes include: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no >>>>>>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The >>>>>>> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal >>> performance >>>>>>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we >>> used >>>>>>> to have four). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network >>> performance >>>>>>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) >>> but >>>>>>> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the >>> measured >>>>>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A >>> bit >>>>>>> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured >>> reuse >>>>>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady >>> state >>>>>>> link performance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point >>> to >>>>>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when >>>>>>> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it >>>>>>> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the >>> draft. >>>>>>> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity >>> and >>>>>>> interoperability. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. >>>>>>> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] >>> minus >>>>>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available >>> bandwidth >>>>>>> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth >>> used >>>>>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These >>>>>>> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, >>> the >>>>>>> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the >>> draft >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CCAMP mailing list >>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > From lberger@labn.net Wed Jun 22 08:17:20 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8008611E808E for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:17:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.238 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.238 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d8thHGfQDJzp for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com [67.222.54.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E6E411E80BA for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 4249 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2011 15:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by cpoproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2011 15:16:26 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=prq3HFT8RgPqrYEkVEmO6955THZAn1rBEkMRZktvhXv0dWO7DfrhHFmSr4AExXp9LPPczLakg5JnsRuxxCeiiRWzQAGL48MSrXYSX06ZVJ0MQW04W4E/dG1sPKugu+wV; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QZPAI-0004M6-KX; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 09:16:26 -0600 Message-ID: <4E020749.8050404@labn.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:16:25 -0400 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Acee Lindem References: <9AA9A2E7-ECDC-4FF0-A1B0-00808617D764@ericsson.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A803F422@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <6268B75A-0841-4F97-BC85-589CECF97FD3@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <6268B75A-0841-4F97-BC85-589CECF97FD3@ericsson.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: CCAMP , OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:17:20 -0000 OSPF WG for the OSPF extensions seems very reasonable to me ;-) I still hope that the OSPF portions of draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric can be combined with draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path given that both drafts state that they are addressing essentially the same high-level problem. Lou On 6/22/2011 8:40 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: > Hi John, > As it stands, the draft contains mainly OSPF TE encodings and considerations. Hence, my inclination would be to keep it in the OSPF WG. However, I'm willing to listen to other proposals. > > Thanks, > Acee > On Jun 21, 2011, at 11:10 PM, John E Drake wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I am a bit confused. I thought the proper home for this work would either be the rtg wg or the mpls wg. I thought it was presented to the OSPF wg for information only. >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >>> Of Alia Atlas >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:45 PM >>> To: Acee Lindem >>> Cc: Spencer Giacalone; CCAMP; OSPF WG List >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 >>> >>> Hi Acee, >>> >>> I do agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & work >>> on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused. >>> I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consideration; >>> to give this the exposure necessary and consideration for >>> applications was why we had this draft discussed in rtgwg as well as >>> ospf. >>> >>> In addition to the obvious uses for RSVP-TE, another potential >>> application is the idea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is >>> split to the different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths >>> out those next-hops. This is a pure IP application (LDP follows >>> of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of those options when >>> considering the RSVP-TE applications. >>> >>> Alia >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem >>> wrote: >>>> Hi Alia, >>>> I guess I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in >>> the MPLS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we >>> should give the decision explicit consideration before we branch off >>> and do TE for application X independently. Additionally, if we do >>> decide to split this off independently, an E-mail to the list saying >>> there is no overlap is not sufficient to move forward. At a minimum, I >>> believe we need to: >>>> >>>> 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and >>> relationship to existing TE in the draft. >>>> 2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was >>> consistent with yours that there are not due to differences in >>> requirements and measurement). >>>> 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion >>> between the latency applications. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Acee >>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Acee, >>>>> >>>>> John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. >>> It >>>>> had a large number of requirements and extensions to >>>>> a number of different protocols. There is one sub-TLV (latency) >>> that >>>>> appears the same - but the expectations >>>>> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. >>>>> >>>>> The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't >>>>> specify in exact detail how the information >>>>> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. I think it could be used >>>>> for multiple purposes. >>>>> >>>>> Alia >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem >>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is a link for everyone's convenience: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP >>> drafts containing interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub- >>> TLVs. Have you or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is >>> positioned versus these other drafts? While these applications have >>> differing goals, the CCAMP/OSPF chairs requested that this analysis be >>> done. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> We would like to avoid having exactly the same information >>> advertised in two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on >>> common units. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Acee >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express >>> Path >>>>>>> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on >>> feedback >>>>>>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main >>>>>>> changes include: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no >>>>>>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The >>>>>>> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal >>> performance >>>>>>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we >>> used >>>>>>> to have four). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network >>> performance >>>>>>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) >>> but >>>>>>> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the >>> measured >>>>>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The A >>> bit >>>>>>> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured >>> reuse >>>>>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady >>> state >>>>>>> link performance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating point >>> to >>>>>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when >>>>>>> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it >>>>>>> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the >>> draft. >>>>>>> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity >>> and >>>>>>> interoperability. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth. >>>>>>> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] >>> minus >>>>>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available >>> bandwidth >>>>>>> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth >>> used >>>>>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These >>>>>>> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, >>> the >>>>>>> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the >>> draft >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CCAMP mailing list >>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > > > > From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Fri Jun 24 14:15:10 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D0211E8073 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:15:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tDGYY5CAXBVC for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1FBA228015 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p5OLF8JX011930 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:15:09 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.54]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:15:02 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: OSPF List Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:15:00 -0400 Thread-Topic: Please help the Nomcom Thread-Index: Acwys8hoJT9BNulrR0WDny9uCBjJTA== Message-ID: <5EDD6F03-B7B5-462B-8CFF-1FD8BF7E3AD0@ericsson.com> References: <20110624183513.7035311E81A8@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [OSPF] Fwd: Please help the Nomcom X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 21:15:11 -0000 FYI - NomCom is looking for volunteers. Thanks, Acee Begin forwarded message: From: NomCom Chair > Date: June 24, 2011 2:35:13 PM EDT To: Working Group Chairs > Subject: Please help the Nomcom Hi WG chairs, We have had a good response to the first call for volunteers but the rate at which new volunteers are coming in is slowing down. The Nomcom process is best served by a large pool of volunteers drawn from a wide spectrum of IETF attendees. Where else would we find this wide spectrum if not in the WG mailing lists. I would really appreciate it if you can forward the message onto your working group mailing lists. The latest volunteer status and the second call for volunteers can be found at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ann/nomcom/2964/ Thanks in advance for your help. Suresh Krishnan Nomcom Chair 2011-2012 Email: nomcom-chair@ietf.org, suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Fri Jun 24 15:14:44 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A8611E80B1 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:14:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o6WEuSJC1gPY for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986C211E808F for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p5OMEgcC002857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:14:43 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.54]) by eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) with mapi; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:14:42 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: OSPF List Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:14:40 -0400 Thread-Topic: OSPF WG Meeting at IETF 81 Thread-Index: AcwyvB3G0iRR8wtuTySf/iuqNEjelg== Message-ID: <07EC14E9-F0AE-4635-8CAE-6FBE6E672C8B@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [OSPF] OSPF WG Meeting at IETF 81 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 22:14:44 -0000 We have a 2 hour slot on Thursday afternoon at 3:20 PM. If you would like a= slot,=20 please let me or Abhay know. Regards, Acee & Abhay= From fu.xihua@zte.com.cn Mon Jun 27 23:33:24 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC78421F8681; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 23:33:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.635 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.635 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GzyPFBfS3qdW; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 23:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67DF021F867F; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 23:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 131322805999928; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 14:29:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.21] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 20345.4694296297; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 14:33:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse02.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p5S6WwPL082624; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 14:32:58 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from fu.xihua@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <4E020749.8050404@labn.net> To: Lou Berger , Acee Lindem MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005 Message-ID: From: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 14:32:58 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-06-28 14:33:00, Serialize complete at 2011-06-28 14:33:00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0023FAB9482578BD_=" X-MAIL: mse02.zte.com.cn p5S6WwPL082624 Cc: OSPF WG List , CCAMP , ccamp-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: 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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA1E11E8089; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:06:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.852 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_SUMOF=5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ydoY9pQUIBZ6; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB0821F8613; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12so791397vws.31 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:06:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=JSwDIEaf8Gh9MksnLSQzsdUxclJcDGxlYoa+60HvkKY=; b=JmDZcPomzmXz4KOcjP0wLtSic6hlAwOFLz/Og/Ld9aMTxiukqPks+d/J7qN0mx4XIA NRSqIlFzJRIrDdf5pZ0v1xPpjg8oQuUeyRTR3WJbsts41fdbWboJ0pEpqKQ/eqfQLwKJ lG++DpIL2ivluJrFxRYFugXn80sEzAR2LRUlc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.72.227 with SMTP id g3mr559974vdv.226.1309327606067; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.159.225 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:06:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4E020749.8050404@labn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:06:46 -0700 Message-ID: From: Vishwas Manral To: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=bcaec5016525dab17504a6d39679 Cc: OSPF WG List , CCAMP , ccamp-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 06:06:49 -0000 --bcaec5016525dab17504a6d39679 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5016525dab17104a6d39677 --bcaec5016525dab17104a6d39677 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fu, There are some basic issues in the documents, especially regarding loss and jitter. I had written a document addressing the same, but never got into actually posting it. I have attached the same here. Do let me know what you feel about the same? Thanks, Vishwas 2011/6/27 > > Hi All, > > I read through the draft-giacalone. For the portion of latency, there is = no > any essential difference between both of drafts. > In the latest version, they added a bit in sub-TLV and gave some > consideration for the advertisment control. This has aslo been described = in > our draft. > Control plane always combines routing constraints with pre-defined > priorities, e.g., SRLG diversity, latency, cost, and bandwidth. > But I don't understand why we need to add *Residual*and *Available*bandwi= dth > in draft-giacalone. Why don't you use RFC4203 and RFC3630 to calculate th= em? > > We will restructure draft-wang into a framework and some protocol specifi= c > parts (i.e., OSPF-TE and RSVP-TE) to address the issues raised in the > framework. > Based on suggestions from Lou and Acee, we agree that the OSPF protions > from our draft is combined with draft-giacalone. OSPF extension will be > developed in draft-giacalone. > The framework document will mainly focus on the requirement of latency > application and how to use latency information. > I prefer framework document is done in CCAMP. But it is related to RTGWG > and MPLS. > Before we define the ability to report latency, it must be clear what we > are reporting. So different implementations will report the same thing. > Based on the discussion with Adrian by email, we will give some descripti= on > about what we are gong to report in this framework document. > The rsvp-te document in CCAMP will give some solution for latency TE (e.g= ., > accumulation and verification of the delay). > > Xihua Fu > > > *Lou Berger * > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org > > 2011-06-22 =CF=C2=CE=E7 11:16 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB > Acee Lindem > =B3=AD=CB=CD > CCAMP , OSPF WG List > =D6=F7=CC=E2 > Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 > > > > > OSPF WG for the OSPF extensions seems very reasonable to me ;-) > > I still hope that the OSPF portions of > draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric can be combined with > draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path given that both drafts state that > they are addressing essentially the same high-level problem. > > Lou > > On 6/22/2011 8:40 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: > > Hi John, > > As it stands, the draft contains mainly OSPF TE encodings and > considerations. Hence, my inclination would be to keep it in the OSPF WG. > However, I'm willing to listen to other proposals. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > On Jun 21, 2011, at 11:10 PM, John E Drake wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I am a bit confused. I thought the proper home for this work would > either be the rtg wg or the mpls wg. I thought it was presented to the O= SPF > wg for information only. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> John > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal= f > >>> Of Alia Atlas > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:45 PM > >>> To: Acee Lindem > >>> Cc: Spencer Giacalone; CCAMP; OSPF WG List > >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 > >>> > >>> Hi Acee, > >>> > >>> I do agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & wor= k > >>> on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused. > >>> I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consideration= ; > >>> to give this the exposure necessary and consideration for > >>> applications was why we had this draft discussed in rtgwg as well as > >>> ospf. > >>> > >>> In addition to the obvious uses for RSVP-TE, another potential > >>> application is the idea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is > >>> split to the different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths > >>> out those next-hops. This is a pure IP application (LDP follows > >>> of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of those options when > >>> considering the RSVP-TE applications. > >>> > >>> Alia > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem > > >>> wrote: > >>>> Hi Alia, > >>>> I guess I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in > >>> the MPLS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we > >>> should give the decision explicit consideration before we branch off > >>> and do TE for application X independently. Additionally, if we do > >>> decide to split this off independently, an E-mail to the list saying > >>> there is no overlap is not sufficient to move forward. At a minimum, = I > >>> believe we need to: > >>>> > >>>> 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and > >>> relationship to existing TE in the draft. > >>>> 2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was > >>> consistent with yours that there are not due to differences in > >>> requirements and measurement). > >>>> 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion > >>> between the latency applications. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Acee > >>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Acee, > >>>>> > >>>>> John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. > >>> It > >>>>> had a large number of requirements and extensions to > >>>>> a number of different protocols. There is one sub-TLV (latency) > >>> that > >>>>> appears the same - but the expectations > >>>>> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. > >>>>> > >>>>> The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't > >>>>> specify in exact detail how the information > >>>>> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. I think it could be used > >>>>> for multiple purposes. > >>>>> > >>>>> Alia > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem > >>> wrote: > >>>>>> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here is a link for everyone's convenience: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP > >>> drafts containing interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE su= b- > >>> TLVs. Have you or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is > >>> positioned versus these other drafts? While these applications have > >>> differing goals, the CCAMP/OSPF chairs requested that this analysis b= e > >>> done. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We would like to avoid having exactly the same information > >>> advertised in two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on > >>> common units. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> Acee > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello everyone, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express > >>> Path > >>>>>>> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on > >>> feedback > >>>>>>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main > >>>>>>> changes include: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no > >>>>>>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The > >>>>>>> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal > >>> performance > >>>>>>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we > >>> used > >>>>>>> to have four). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network > >>> performance > >>>>>>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) > >>> but > >>>>>>> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the > >>> measured > >>>>>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The = A > >>> bit > >>>>>>> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured > >>> reuse > >>>>>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady > >>> state > >>>>>>> link performance. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating poin= t > >>> to > >>>>>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when > >>>>>>> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it > >>>>>>> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the > >>> draft. > >>>>>>> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity > >>> and > >>>>>>> interoperability. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth= . > >>>>>>> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] > >>> minus > >>>>>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available > >>> bandwidth > >>>>>>> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth > >>> used > >>>>>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These > >>>>>>> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, > >>> the > >>>>>>> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the > >>> draft > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> OSPF mailing list > >>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> OSPF mailing list > >>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> CCAMP mailing list > >>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > OSPF mailing list > > OSPF@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > --bcaec5016525dab17104a6d39677 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fu,
 
There are some basic issues in the documents, especially regarding los= s and jitter. I had written a document addressing the same, but never got i= nto actually posting it.
 
I have attached the same here. Do let me know what you feel about the = same?
 
Thanks,
Vishwas
2011/6/27 <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

Hi All,

I read= through the draft-giacalone. For the portion of latency, there is no any e= ssential difference between both of drafts.
In the latest version, they added a bi= t in sub-TLV and gave some consideration for the advertisment control. This= has aslo been described in our draft.
Control plane always combines routing constraints with pre-defi= ned priorities, e.g., SRLG diversity, latency, cost, and bandwidth. =
But I don't understand why we need= to add Residualand Availablebandwidth in draft-giacalone. Wh= y don't you use RFC4203 and RFC3630 to calculate them?

<= font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"2">We will restructure draft-wang into a f= ramework and some protocol specific parts (i.e., OSPF-TE and RSVP-TE) to ad= dress the issues raised in the framework.
Based on suggestions from Lou and Acee= , we agree that the OSPF protions from our draft is combined with draft-gia= calone. OSPF extension will be developed in draft-giacalone.
The framework document will mainly focus = on the requirement of latency application and how to use latency informatio= n.  
I prefer framework document is done in= CCAMP. But it is related to RTGWG and MPLS.
Before we define the ability to report latency, it must b= e clear what we are reporting. So different implementations will report the= same thing.
Based on the discussion with Adrian by= email, we will give some description about what we are gong to report in t= his framework document.
The= rsvp-te document in CCAMP will give some solution for latency TE (e.g., ac= cumulation and verification of the delay).

Xihua Fu


Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>= ;
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: &= nbsp;ccamp-boun= ces@ietf.org=20

2011-06-22 =CF=C2=CE=E7 11:16

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8= =CB
Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@erics= son.com>
=B3=AD=CB=CD
CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>= =20
=D6=F7=CC=E2
Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF]   draft-gi= acalone-ospf-te-express-path-01




OSPF WG for the OSPF ext= ensions seems very reasonable to me ;-)

I still hope that the OSPF p= ortions of
draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric can be combined with
dr= aft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path given that both drafts state that
they are addressing essentially the same high-level problem.

Lou
=
On 6/22/2011 8:40 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
> Hi John,
> As i= t stands, the draft contains mainly OSPF TE encodings and considerations. H= ence, my inclination would be to keep it in the OSPF WG. However, I'm w= illing to listen to other proposals.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
> On Jun 21, 2011, at 11:10 PM, Jo= hn E Drake wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am a b= it confused.  I thought the proper home for this work would either be = the rtg wg or the mpls wg.  I thought it was presented to the OSPF wg = for information only.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
&= gt;> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> -----Or= iginal Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf
>>> Of Alia Atlas
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:4= 5 PM
>>> To: Acee Lindem
>>> Cc: Spencer Giacalone;= CCAMP; OSPF WG List
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giac= alone-ospf-te-express-path-01
>>>
>>> Hi Acee,
>>>
>>> I do = agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & work
&g= t;>> on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused.
>>> I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consid= eration;
>>> to give this the exposure necessary and considerat= ion for
>>> applications was why we had this draft discussed in= rtgwg as well as
>>> ospf.
>>>
>>> In addition to the obvio= us uses for RSVP-TE, another potential
>>> application is the i= dea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is
>>> split to the = different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths
>>> out those next-hops.  This is a pure IP application (LDP = follows
>>> of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of = those options when
>>> considering the RSVP-TE applications. >>>
>>> Alia
>>>
>>> On Tue, J= un 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
>>>= wrote:
>>>> Hi Alia,
>>>> I guess I agree with Lou - he= retofore, we've done TE requirements in
>>> the MPLS/CCAMP = WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we
>>> should = give the decision explicit consideration before we branch off
>>> and do TE for application X independently. Additionally, if we= do
>>> decide to split this off independently, an E-mail to th= e list saying
>>> there is no overlap is not sufficient to move= forward. At a minimum, I
>>> believe we need to:
>>>>
>>>> &n= bsp; 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and
>>>= ; relationship to existing TE in the draft.
>>>>   2. D= etermine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was
>>> consistent with yours that there are not due to differences in=
>>> requirements and measurement).
>>>>   = 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion
>&g= t;> between the latency applications.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Acee
&g= t;>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote:
>>&g= t;>
>>>>> Hi Acee,
>>>>>
>>= >>> John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCA= MP.
>>>  It
>>>>> had a large number of require= ments and extensions to
>>>>> a number of different proto= cols.  There is one sub-TLV (latency)
>>> that
>>= >>> appears the same - but the expectations
>>>>> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different.
&= gt;>>>>
>>>>> The OSPF TE Express Path work i= s fairly self-contained and doesn't
>>>>> specify in = exact detail how the information
>>>>> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained.  I thin= k it could be used
>>>>> for multiple purposes.
>&g= t;>>>
>>>>> Alia
>>>>>
>= >>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem
>>> <acee.lindem@ericsson.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi = Spencer (CCAMP copied as well),
>>>>>>
>>>= >>> Here is a link for everyone's convenience:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> = http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt
&= gt;>>>>>
>>>>>> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap wit= h other CCAMP
>>> drafts containing interface delay metrics and= proposals for new TE sub-
>>> TLVs. Have you or your co-author= s, done looked at how your draft is
>>> positioned versus these other drafts? While these applications= have
>>> differing goals, the CCAMP/OSPF chairs requested that= this analysis be
>>> done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-w= ang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt
>>>>>>
>&= gt;>>>> We would like to avoid having exactly the same informat= ion
>>> advertised in two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we cou= ld agree on
>>> common units.
>>>>>>
&g= t;>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Acee
>>= >>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wro= te:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello every= one,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you= may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express
>>> Path
>>>>>>> draft has been posted. We= made a number of changes based on
>>> feedback
>>>= >>>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The= main
>>>>>>> changes include:
>>>>>>&g= t;
>>>>>>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for = efficiency. There are no
>>>>>>> longer nominal and= anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The
>>>>>>> functionality for signaling steady state verse= s abnormal
>>> performance
>>>>>>> for = these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we
>>>= ; used
>>>>>>> to have four).
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>> -In order to advertise both normal and abn= ormal network
>>> performance
>>>>>>> s= tate in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A)
>>> but
>>>>>>> has been added to certain = sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the
>>> measured
>>>= ;>>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum thresho= ld. The A
>>> bit
>>>>>>> is cleared when the measur= ed value falls below its configured
>>> reuse
>>>&g= t;>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents ste= ady
>>> state
>>>>>>> link performance.
>= ;>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -We changed the e= ncodings of certain variables from floating point
>>> to
>>>>>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition = of the A bit (when
>>>>>>> necessary), it allows bi= t-space reservations to be made, and it
>>>>>>> per= mits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the
>>> draft.
>>>>>>> In addition, the new en= codings address concerns about granularity
>>> and
>>&= gt;>>>> interoperability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and = Available Bandwidth.
>>>>>>> Residual bandwidth is = defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630]
>>> minus
>>= ;>>>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Av= ailable
>>> bandwidth
>>>>>>> is defined to be res= idual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth
>>> used
>&g= t;>>>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets= .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Various other= modifications were made across the draft. These
>>>>>>= ;> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction,
>>> the
>>>>>>> thresholding specification= s, and a number of field descriptions.
>>>>>>>
&= gt;>>>>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi= has joined the
>>> draft
>>>>>>>
>>>>>&= gt;> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns.
>>&= gt;>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>= >>>>
>>>>>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano
>>= >>>>> _______________________________________________
>= ;>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>>= OSPF@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf>>>>>>
>>>>>> ____________________= ___________________________
>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org
>>= ;>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>= ;> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP= mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>= ; _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list=
> OSPF@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>
>
&g= t;
>
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing l= ist
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp



_______________________________________= ________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


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Manral Internet-Draft Hewlett-Packard Corp. Intended status: Standards Track =20 Expires: November 17, 2011 =20 May 16, 2011 Traffic Engineering architecture for services aware MPLS draft-manral-mpls-service-00 Abstract With more and more enterprises using cloud based services, the distances between the user and the applications are growing. A lot of the current applications are designed to work across LAN's and have various inherent assumptions. For multiple applications such as High Performance Computing and Electronic Financial markets, the response times are critical as is packet loss, while other applications require more throughput. [RFC3031] describes the architecture of MPLS based networks. This draft extends the MPLS architecture to allow for latency, loss and jitter as properties. Note MPLS architecture for Multicast will be taken up in a future version of the draft. Requirements Language The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC 2119]. Status of this Memo This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet- Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." Manral & Giacalone Expires November 17, 2011 [Page 1] =0C Internet-Draft Link Latency, Jitter and Loss May 2011 This Internet-Draft will expire on November 17, 2011. Copyright Notice Copyright (c) 2011 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document authors. All rights reserved. This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD License. Manral & Giacalone Expires November 17, 2011 [Page 2] =0C Internet-Draft Link Latency, Jitter and Loss May 2011 Table of Contents 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2. End-to-End Latency Measurements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3. End-to-End Jitter Measurements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4. End-to-End Loss Measurements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 5. Protocol Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 6. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 8. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 Manral & Giacalone Expires November 17, 2011 [Page 3] =0C Internet-Draft Link Latency, Jitter and Loss May 2011 1. Introduction In High Frequency trading for Electronic Financial markets, computers make decisions based on the Electronic Data received, without human intervention. These trades now account for a majority of the trading volumes and rely exclusively on ultra-low-latency direct market access. Extremely low latency measurements for MPLS LSP tunnels are defined in draft-ietf-mpls-loss-delay. They allow a mechanism to measure and monitor performance metrics for packet loss, and one-way and two-way delay, as well as related metrics like delay variation and channel throughput. The measurements are however effective only after the LSP is created and cannot be used by MPLS Path computation engine to define paths that have the latest latency. This draft defines the architecture used, so that end-to-end tunnels can be set up based on latency, loss or jitter characteristics. 2. End-to-End Latency Measurements Latency or one-way delay is the time it takes for a packet within a stream going from measurement point 1 to measurement point 2. The architecture uses assumption that the sum of the latencies of the individual components approximately adds up to the average latency of an LSP. Though using the sum may not be perfect, it however gives a good approximation that can be used for Traffic Engineering (TE) purposes. The total latency of an LSP consists of the sum of the latency of the LSP hop, as well as the average latency of switching on a device, which may vary based on queuing and buffering. Hop latency can be measured by getting the latency measurement between the ingress of one MPLS LSR to the ingress of the nexthop LSR. This value may be constant for most part, unless there is protection switching, or other similar changes at a lower layer. The switching latency on a device, can be measured internally, and multiple mechanisms and data structures to do the same have been defined. Add references to papers by Verghese, Kompella, Duffield. Though the mechanisms define how to do flow based measurements, the amount of information gathered in such a case, may become too cumbersome for the Path Computation element to effectively use. Manral & Giacalone Expires November 17, 2011 [Page 4] =0C Internet-Draft Link Latency, Jitter and Loss May 2011 An approximation of Flow based measurement is the per DSCP value, measurement from the ingress of one port to the egress of every other port in the device. Another approximation that can be used is per interface DSCP based measurement, which can be an agrregate of the average measurements per interface. The average can itself be calculated in ways, so as to provide closer approximation. The delay is measured in terms of 10's of nano-seconds. 3. End-to-End Jitter Measurements Jitter or Packet Delay Variation of a packet within a stream of packets is defined for a selected pair of packets in the stream going from measurement point 1 to measurement point 2. The architecture uses assumption that the sum of the jitter of the individual components approximately adds up to the average jitter of an LSP. Though using the sum may not be perfect, it however gives a good approximation that can be used for Traffic Engineering (TE) purposes. There may be very less jitter on a link-hop basis. The buffering and queuing within a device will lead to the jitter. Just like latency measurements, jitter measurements can be appproximated as either per DSCP per port pair (Ingresss and Egress) or as per DSCP per egress port. The jitter is measured in terms of 10's of nano-seconds. 4. End-to-End Loss Measurements Loss or Packet Drop probability of a packet within a stream of packets is defined as the number of packets dropped within a given interval. The architecture uses assumption that the sum of the loss of the individual components approximately adds up to the average loss of an LSP. Though using the sum may not be perfect, it however gives a good approximation that can be used for Traffic Engineering (TE) purposes. There may be very less loss on a link-hop basis, except in case of physical link issues. Manral & Giacalone Expires November 17, 2011 [Page 5] =0C Internet-Draft Link Latency, Jitter and Loss May 2011 The buffering and queuing mechanisms within a device will decide which packet is to be dropped. Just like latency and jitter measurements, the loss can best be appproximated as either per DSCP per port pair (Ingresss and Egress) or as per DSCP per egress port. The loss is measured in terms of the number of packets per million packets. 5. Protocol Considerations The protocol metrics above can be sent in IGP protocol packets RFC 3630. They can then be used by the Path Computation engine to dervice paths with the desired path properties. As Link-state IGP information is flooded throughout an area, frequent changes can cause a lot of control traffic. To prevent such flooding, data should only be flooded when it crosses a certain configured maximum. A seperate measurement should be done for an LSP when it is UP. Also LSP's path should only be recalculated when the end-to-end metrics changes in a way it becomes more then desired. 6. IANA Considerations No new IANA consideration are raised by this document. 7. Security Considerations This document raises no new security issues. 8. Acknowledgements TBD. Manral & Giacalone Expires November 17, 2011 [Page 6] =0C Internet-Draft Link Latency, Jitter and Loss May 2011 Authors' Addresses Vishwas Manral Hewlett-Packard Corp. 191111 Pruneridge Ave. Cupertino, CA 95014 US Phone: 408-447-1497 Email: vishwas@ipinfusion.com URI: Spencer Giacalone Thomson Reuters 195 Broadway New York, NY 10007 US Phone: 646-822-3000 Email: spencer.giacalone@thomsonreuters.com URI: Manral & Giacalone Expires November 17, 2011 [Page 7] =0C= --=_mixed 0024ED9B482578BE_=-- From vishwas.ietf@gmail.com Wed Jun 29 07:23:26 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B939E800B; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:23:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.352 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rWOuvOoNNkK9; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 987AD21F85D7; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12so1111529vws.31 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:23:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=i8Aisgwmdioh8TtFcYn7Z3eu+GDHNUWkBAI5a9irjkE=; b=aVg81ZMwmoL601RtKNfipRRjJBkaLwdZp+fYMCu27xrlS/4vf+qlsHHBc8SyQOgsTe eQ8Y2TUODyXJUGaJ8f/nSyZC0Nv6HiidCG5PHNid+7jeVg4a8AssBusekzzzgt+LBzOr HM+EyrlzEYhucqgRiULIdeETi1EbyCDHrgD4I= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.100.70 with SMTP id ew6mr1240220vdb.66.1309357402850; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.159.225 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:23:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:23:22 -0700 Message-ID: From: Vishwas Manral To: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3071c6d2e1867e04a6da8674 Cc: OSPF WG List , CCAMP , ccamp-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:23:26 -0000 --20cf3071c6d2e1867e04a6da8674 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fu, If you see the document, it is trying to give an overview of what needs to be done and the architecture of the same. I think that is what you have stated. Thanks, Vishwas 2011/6/28 > > Hi Vishwas, > > Thank you for the information. > I know those drafts cover loss or jitter. For the latency portions, they > are same. > > Xihua > > > > *Vishwas Manral * > > 2011-06-29 =CF=C2=CE=E7 02:06 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn > =B3=AD=CB=CD > Lou Berger , Acee Lindem , > OSPF WG List , CCAMP , > ccamp-bounces@ietf.org > =D6=F7=CC=E2 > Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 > > > > > Hi Fu, > > There are some basic issues in the documents, especially regarding loss a= nd > jitter. I had written a document addressing the same, but never got into > actually posting it. > > I have attached the same here. Do let me know what you feel about the sam= e? > > Thanks, > Vishwas > 2011/6/27 <*fu.xihua@zte.com.cn* > > > Hi All, > > I read through the draft-giacalone. For the portion of latency, there is = no > any essential difference between both of drafts. > In the latest version, they added a bit in sub-TLV and gave some > consideration for the advertisment control. This has aslo been described = in > our draft. > Control plane always combines routing constraints with pre-defined > priorities, e.g., SRLG diversity, latency, cost, and bandwidth. > But I don't understand why we need to add *Residual*and *Available*bandwi= dth > in draft-giacalone. Why don't you use RFC4203 and RFC3630 to calculate th= em? > > We will restructure draft-wang into a framework and some protocol specifi= c > parts (i.e., OSPF-TE and RSVP-TE) to address the issues raised in the > framework. > Based on suggestions from Lou and Acee, we agree that the OSPF protions > from our draft is combined with draft-giacalone. OSPF extension will be > developed in draft-giacalone. > The framework document will mainly focus on the requirement of latency > application and how to use latency information. > I prefer framework document is done in CCAMP. But it is related to RTGWG > and MPLS. > Before we define the ability to report latency, it must be clear what we > are reporting. So different implementations will report the same thing. > Based on the discussion with Adrian by email, we will give some descripti= on > about what we are gong to report in this framework document. > The rsvp-te document in CCAMP will give some solution for latency TE (e.g= ., > accumulation and verification of the delay). > > Xihua Fu > > *Lou Berger <**lberger@labn.net* *>* > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: *ccamp-bounces@ietf.org* > > 2011-06-22 =CF=C2=CE=E7 11:16 > > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB > Acee Lindem <*acee.lindem@ericsson.com* > > =B3=AD=CB=CD > CCAMP <*ccamp@ietf.org* >, OSPF WG List <*ospf@ietf.org*<= ospf@ietf.org> > > > =D6=F7=CC=E2 > Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 > > > > > > OSPF WG for the OSPF extensions seems very reasonable to me ;-) > > I still hope that the OSPF portions of > draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric can be combined with > draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path given that both drafts state that > they are addressing essentially the same high-level problem. > > Lou > > On 6/22/2011 8:40 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: > > Hi John, > > As it stands, the draft contains mainly OSPF TE encodings and > considerations. Hence, my inclination would be to keep it in the OSPF WG. > However, I'm willing to listen to other proposals. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > On Jun 21, 2011, at 11:10 PM, John E Drake wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I am a bit confused. I thought the proper home for this work would > either be the rtg wg or the mpls wg. I thought it was presented to the O= SPF > wg for information only. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> John > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: *ccamp-bounces@ietf.org* [mailto:* > ccamp-bounces@ietf.org* ] On Behalf > >>> Of Alia Atlas > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:45 PM > >>> To: Acee Lindem > >>> Cc: Spencer Giacalone; CCAMP; OSPF WG List > >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 > >>> > >>> Hi Acee, > >>> > >>> I do agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & wor= k > >>> on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused. > >>> I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consideration= ; > >>> to give this the exposure necessary and consideration for > >>> applications was why we had this draft discussed in rtgwg as well as > >>> ospf. > >>> > >>> In addition to the obvious uses for RSVP-TE, another potential > >>> application is the idea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is > >>> split to the different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths > >>> out those next-hops. This is a pure IP application (LDP follows > >>> of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of those options when > >>> considering the RSVP-TE applications. > >>> > >>> Alia > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem <* > acee.lindem@ericsson.com* > > >>> wrote: > >>>> Hi Alia, > >>>> I guess I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in > >>> the MPLS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we > >>> should give the decision explicit consideration before we branch off > >>> and do TE for application X independently. Additionally, if we do > >>> decide to split this off independently, an E-mail to the list saying > >>> there is no overlap is not sufficient to move forward. At a minimum, = I > >>> believe we need to: > >>>> > >>>> 1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and > >>> relationship to existing TE in the draft. > >>>> 2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was > >>> consistent with yours that there are not due to differences in > >>> requirements and measurement). > >>>> 3. Assure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion > >>> between the latency applications. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Acee > >>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Acee, > >>>>> > >>>>> John Drake and I did take a look at the draft mentioned in CCAMP. > >>> It > >>>>> had a large number of requirements and extensions to > >>>>> a number of different protocols. There is one sub-TLV (latency) > >>> that > >>>>> appears the same - but the expectations > >>>>> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different. > >>>>> > >>>>> The OSPF TE Express Path work is fairly self-contained and doesn't > >>>>> specify in exact detail how the information > >>>>> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained. I think it could be used > >>>>> for multiple purposes. > >>>>> > >>>>> Alia > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem > >>> <*acee.lindem@ericsson.com* > wrote: > >>>>>> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well), > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here is a link for everyone's convenience: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.tx= t > * > >>>>>> > >>>>>> At IETF 80, there were questions about overlap with other CCAMP > >>> drafts containing interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE su= b- > >>> TLVs. Have you or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is > >>> positioned versus these other drafts? While these applications have > >>> differing goals, the CCAMP/OSPF chairs requested that this analysis b= e > >>> done. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metric-03.txt*= > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We would like to avoid having exactly the same information > >>> advertised in two different link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on > >>> common units. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> Acee > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello everyone, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As you may have noticed, another version of the OSPF TE Express > >>> Path > >>>>>>> draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on > >>> feedback > >>>>>>> from IETF 80. We invite your comments and suggestions. The main > >>>>>>> changes include: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no > >>>>>>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for delay and loss. The > >>>>>>> functionality for signaling steady state verses abnormal > >>> performance > >>>>>>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (where we > >>> used > >>>>>>> to have four). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -In order to advertise both normal and abnormal network > >>> performance > >>>>>>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anomalous (A) > >>> but > >>>>>>> has been added to certain sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the > >>> measured > >>>>>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum threshold. The = A > >>> bit > >>>>>>> is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured > >>> reuse > >>>>>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents steady > >>> state > >>>>>>> link performance. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -We changed the encodings of certain variables from floating poin= t > >>> to > >>>>>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition of the A bit (when > >>>>>>> necessary), it allows bit-space reservations to be made, and it > >>>>>>> permits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the > >>> draft. > >>>>>>> In addition, the new encodings address concerns about granularity > >>> and > >>>>>>> interoperability. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and Available Bandwidth= . > >>>>>>> Residual bandwidth is defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630] > >>> minus > >>>>>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Available > >>> bandwidth > >>>>>>> is defined to be residual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth > >>> used > >>>>>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -Various other modifications were made across the draft. These > >>>>>>> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction, > >>> the > >>>>>>> thresholding specifications, and a number of field descriptions. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi has joined the > >>> draft > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> OSPF mailing list > >>>>>>> *OSPF@ietf.org* > >>>>>>> *https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> OSPF mailing list > >>>>>> *OSPF@ietf.org* > >>>>>> *https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf* > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> CCAMP mailing list > >>> *CCAMP@ietf.org* > >>> *https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > OSPF mailing list > > *OSPF@ietf.org* > > *https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf* > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list* > **CCAMP@ietf.org* * > **https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp* > > > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list* > **CCAMP@ietf.org* * > **https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp* > > > --20cf3071c6d2e1867e04a6da8674 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fu,
 
If you see the document, it is trying to give an overview of what need= s to be done and the architecture of the same. I think that is what you hav= e stated.
 
Thanks,
Vishwas
2011/6/28 <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

Hi Vishwas,

Th= ank you for the information.
I know those drafts cover loss or jitt= er.  For the latency portions, they are same.

Xihua



Vishwas Manral &l= t;vishwas.ietf@= gmail.com>

2011-06-29 =CF=C2=CE=E7 02:06

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8= =CB
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
=B3=AD=CB=CD
Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Acee Lindem &l= t;acee.lindem= @ericsson.com>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=20
=D6=F7=CC=E2
Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone= -ospf-te-express-path-01




Hi Fu,
&nbs= p;
There are some basic iss= ues in the documents, especially regarding loss and jitter. I had written a= document addressing the same, but never got into actually posting it.
 
I have attached the same here. Do let me know what you fee= l about the same?
 
Thanks,
Vishwas
2011/6/27 <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>= ;

Hi All,

I rea= d through the draft-giacalone. For the portion of latency, there is no any = essential difference between both of drafts.
In the latest version, they added a bit in sub-TLV and gave some considerat= ion for the advertisment control. This has aslo been described in our draft= .
Control plane always combines routing constraints with pre-defined prioriti= es, e.g., SRLG diversity, latency, cost, and bandwidth.
But I don't= understand why we need to add Residualand Availablebandwidth= in draft-giacalone. Why don't you use RFC4203 and RFC3630 to calculate= them?

We will restructure draft-w= ang into a framework and some protocol specific parts (i.e., OSPF-TE and RS= VP-TE) to address the issues raised in the framework.
Based on suggesti= ons from Lou and Acee, we agree that the OSPF protions from our draft is co= mbined with draft-giacalone. OSPF extension will be developed in draft-giac= alone.
The framework document will mainly focus on the requirement of latency appl= ication and how to use latency information.  
I prefe= r framework document is done in CCAMP. But it is related to RTGWG and MPLS.=
Before we define the ability to report latency, it must be clear what we ar= e reporting. So different implementations will report the same thing.
B= ased on the discussion with Adrian by email, we will give some description = about what we are gong to report in this framework document. <= br> The rsvp-te document in CCAMP will give some solution for latency TE (e.g.,= accumulation and verification of the delay).

Xihua Fu=

Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  cc= amp-bounces@ietf.org

2011-06-22 =CF=C2=CE=E7 11:16


=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8= =CB
Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
=B3=AD=CB=CD
CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ie= tf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2
Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF]   draft-gi= acalone-ospf-te-express-path-01




OSPF WG for the OSPF extensions seems very reasonable to me ;-)
I still hope that the OSPF portions of
draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-metr= ic can be combined with
draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path given that both drafts state that
t= hey are addressing essentially the same high-level problem.

Lou
<= br>On 6/22/2011 8:40 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
> Hi John,
> As it= stands, the draft contains mainly OSPF TE encodings and considerations. He= nce, my inclination would be to keep it in the OSPF WG. However, I'm wi= lling to listen to other proposals.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
> On Jun 21, 2011, at 11:10 PM, Jo= hn E Drake wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am a b= it confused.  I thought the proper home for this work would either be = the rtg wg or the mpls wg.  I thought it was presented to the OSPF wg = for information only.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
&= gt;> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> -----Or= iginal Message-----
>>> From: = ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:= ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<= /a>] On Behalf
>>> Of Alia Atlas
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:4= 5 PM
>>> To: Acee Lindem
>>> Cc: Spencer Giacalone;= CCAMP; OSPF WG List
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giac= alone-ospf-te-express-path-01
>>>
>>> Hi Acee,
>>>
>>> I do = agree that we should explicitly document this in the draft & work
&g= t;>> on better names for the sub-TLVs that might be confused.
>>> I also agree that we need to give the decision explicit consid= eration;
>>> to give this the exposure necessary and considerat= ion for
>>> applications was why we had this draft discussed in= rtgwg as well as
>>> ospf.
>>>
>>> In addition to the obvio= us uses for RSVP-TE, another potential
>>> application is the i= dea of a path-weighted ECMP, where traffic is
>>> split to the = different next-hops based upon the total path bandwidths
>>> out those next-hops.  This is a pure IP application (LDP = follows
>>> of course) and I'd prefer not to lose track of = those options when
>>> considering the RSVP-TE applications. >>>
>>> Alia
>>>
>>> On Tue, J= un 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Acee Lindem <= acee.lindem@ericsson.com> >>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Alia,
>>>> I gues= s I agree with Lou - heretofore, we've done TE requirements in
>&= gt;> the MPLS/CCAMP WGs and the TE encodings in the IGP WGs. I think we<= br> >>> should give the decision explicit consideration before we bran= ch off
>>> and do TE for application X independently. Additiona= lly, if we do
>>> decide to split this off independently, an E-= mail to the list saying
>>> there is no overlap is not sufficient to move forward. At a mi= nimum, I
>>> believe we need to:
>>>>
>>= ;>>   1. Explicitly document this alternate applicability and >>> relationship to existing TE in the draft.
>>>> =   2. Determine whether any sub-TLVs can be shared (my opinion was
&= gt;>> consistent with yours that there are not due to differences in<= br> >>> requirements and measurement).
>>>>   3. A= ssure the sub-TLVs are appropriately named to avoid confusion
>>&g= t; between the latency applications.
>>>>
>>>>= ; Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Alia= Atlas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Acee,
>&= gt;>>>
>>>>> John Drake and I did take a look at= the draft mentioned in CCAMP.
>>>  It
>>>>> had a large number of require= ments and extensions to
>>>>> a number of different proto= cols.  There is one sub-TLV (latency)
>>> that
>>= >>> appears the same - but the expectations
>>>>> as to averaging vs. instantaneous were different.
&= gt;>>>>
>>>>> The OSPF TE Express Path work i= s fairly self-contained and doesn't
>>>>> specify in = exact detail how the information
>>>>> for the sub-TLVs is measured or obtained.  I thin= k it could be used
>>>>> for multiple purposes.
>&g= t;>>>
>>>>> Alia
>>>>>
>= >>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Acee Lindem
>>> <acee.lindem@ericsson= .com> wrote:
>>>>= ;>> Hi Spencer (CCAMP copied as well),
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is a link for eve= ryone's convenience:
>>>>>>
>>>>>= ;> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01.txt<= /tt>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At IETF 80, there were= questions about overlap with other CCAMP
>>> drafts containing= interface delay metrics and proposals for new TE sub-
>>> TLVs= . Have you or your co-authors, done looked at how your draft is
>>> positioned versus these other drafts? While these applications= have
>>> differing goals, the CCAMP/OSPF chairs requested that= this analysis be
>>> done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-ccamp-latency-te-met= ric-03.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We would like to avoid= having exactly the same information
>>> advertised in two diff= erent link Sub-TLVs. I'd hope we could agree on
>>> common = units.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>= ;>>> Acee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> = On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Spencer Giacalone wrote:
>>>>&g= t;>
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>= ;
>>>>>>> As you may have noticed, another version = of the OSPF TE Express
>>> Path
>>>>>>>= draft has been posted. We made a number of changes based on
>>> feedback
>>>>>>> from IETF 80. We invi= te your comments and suggestions. The main
>>>>>>> = changes include:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>= ;> -We have consolidated some sub-TLVs for efficiency. There are no
>>>>>>> longer nominal and anomalous sub-TLVs for dela= y and loss. The
>>>>>>> functionality for signaling= steady state verses abnormal
>>> performance
>>>&g= t;>>> for these parameters have been moved into two sub-TLVs (wher= e we
>>> used
>>>>>>> to have four).
>>= ;>>>>>
>>>>>>> -In order to advertis= e both normal and abnormal network
>>> performance
>>&= gt;>>>> state in consolidated sub-TLVs, a bit, called the anoma= lous (A)
>>> but
>>>>>>> has been added to certain = sub-TLVs. The A bit is set when the
>>> measured
>>>= ;>>>> value of a parameter exceeds a configured maximum thresho= ld. The A
>>> bit
>>>>>>> is cleared when the measur= ed value falls below its configured
>>> reuse
>>>&g= t;>>> threshold. If the A bit is clear, the sub-TLV represents ste= ady
>>> state
>>>>>>> link performance.
>= ;>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -We changed the e= ncodings of certain variables from floating point
>>> to
>>>>>>> fixed point. This change permits the addition = of the A bit (when
>>>>>>> necessary), it allows bi= t-space reservations to be made, and it
>>>>>>> per= mits a common TLV format across the bulk of the TLVs in the
>>> draft.
>>>>>>> In addition, the new en= codings address concerns about granularity
>>> and
>>&= gt;>>>> interoperability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -We added sub-TLVs for Residual Bandwidth and = Available Bandwidth.
>>>>>>> Residual bandwidth is = defined as the Maximum Bandwidth [RFC3630]
>>> minus
>>= ;>>>>> the bandwidth currently allocated to RSVP-TE LSPs. Av= ailable
>>> bandwidth
>>>>>>> is defined to be res= idual bandwidth minus the measured bandwidth
>>> used
>&g= t;>>>>> for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE LSP packets= .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Various other= modifications were made across the draft. These
>>>>>>= ;> include, but are not limited to, the abstract, the introduction,
>>> the
>>>>>>> thresholding specification= s, and a number of field descriptions.
>>>>>>>
&= gt;>>>>>> -Last, but certainly not least, Stefano Providi= has joined the
>>> draft
>>>>>>>
>>>>>&= gt;> We look forward to hearing your comments and concerns.
>>&= gt;>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>= >>>>
>>>>>>> Spencer, Alia, Dave, John, Stefano
>>= >>>>> _______________________________________________
>= ;>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>>= OSPF@ietf.org
>>>>>>> = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________= _________________________
>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
= >>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org<= /font>
>>>>>> h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>= ;> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP= mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing l= ist
> = OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/ospf
>
= >
>
>
_______________________________________________
CCAMP = mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/ccamp



_______________________= ________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp



--20cf3071c6d2e1867e04a6da8674-- From fu.xihua@zte.com.cn Wed Jun 29 18:49:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FFF9E801D; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:49:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.135 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.135 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eeNEr2UC7bt9; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx5.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222519E800C; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 48642805999928; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:48:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.20] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 18917.6706173909; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:44:21 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse01.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p5U1iOZk016758; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:44:24 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from fu.xihua@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: To: Vishwas Manral MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005 Message-ID: From: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:44:22 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-06-30 09:44:24, Serialize complete at 2011-06-30 09:44:24 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00098F13482578BF_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn p5U1iOZk016758 Cc: OSPF WG List , CCAMP , ccamp-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org 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PV9ibGFuaz48Zm9udCBzaXplPTMgY29sb3I9Ymx1ZSBmYWNlPSJzYW5zLXNlcmlmIj48dT5DQ0FN UEBpZXRmLm9yZzwvdT48L2ZvbnQ+PC9hPjxmb250IHNpemU9MyBjb2xvcj1ibHVlIGZhY2U9InNh bnMtc2VyaWYiPjx1Pjxicj4NCjwvdT48L2ZvbnQ+PGEgaHJlZj1odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2NjYW1wIHRhcmdldD1fYmxhbms+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0zIGNvbG9y PWJsdWUgZmFjZT0ic2Fucy1zZXJpZiI+PHU+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9s aXN0aW5mby9jY2FtcDwvdT48L2ZvbnQ+PC9hPjxmb250IHNpemU9MyBmYWNlPSJzYW5zLXNlcmlm Ij48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQo8L2ZvbnQ+DQo8cD4NCjxwPg0K --=_alternative 00098F13482578BF_=-- From lberger@labn.net Thu Jun 30 05:19:04 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDE021F8678 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:19:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.307 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.307 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id taNaxOmGtMJ9 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy3-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy3-pub.bluehost.com [69.89.21.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A280221F865A for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26855 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jun 2011 12:19:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by oproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2011 12:19:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=vAKA7kMKMA0jxykLxbRG/Z93uxOwxamTRAcAn/fbAfFkMoWxXwtC8jIk+z6NT4ct4AaCd43cr6x0b7plspoxnj8t6hKOYyUw2jFNms2MT5uUwdrgx3JCiEWxmgAz5ze4; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QcGD1-0005eS-0i; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:19:03 -0600 Message-ID: <4E0C69B8.7040508@labn.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:19:04 -0400 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: OSPF WG List , CCAMP , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:19:04 -0000 Xihua, For at least now, the OSPF work should be done in the OSPF WG. The chairs of the various candidate WG are having some off-line discussions on were the requirements/RSVP work belongs. We should have an answer for you by early next week. Lou PS Please don't cc ccamp-bounces@ietf.org on mail you send, it makes the mail system think your mail is a bounce! On 6/29/2011 9:44 PM, fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote: > I have a question to chairs and the authors. Because there are more and > more documents appearing, we should think about how to move forward > these work. > What's your opinion? From fu.xihua@zte.com.cn Thu Jun 30 05:28:30 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60139E8008; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:28:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.485 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.485 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id klBq8JsE0Ca6; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7F69E8005; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 131321817402550; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:24:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.20] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 62312.6936096269; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:28:12 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse01.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p5UCSMuD026766; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:28:22 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from fu.xihua@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <4E0C69B8.7040508@labn.net> To: Lou Berger MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005 Message-ID: From: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:28:21 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-06-30 20:28:23, Serialize complete at 2011-06-30 20:28:23 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0044844A482578BF_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn p5UCSMuD026766 Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , OSPF WG List , CCAMP Subject: Re: [OSPF] [CCAMP] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:28:30 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0044844A482578BF_= Content-Type: text/plain; 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Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:56:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DTUrQNMc536Y for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailrelayi.jaist.ac.jp (mailrelayi.jaist.ac.jp [150.65.19.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B40228010 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:55:48 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,450,1304262000"; d="scan'208";a="100904278" Received: from dp047-226.jaist.ac.jp (HELO localhost) ([150.65.47.226]) by mailrelayi.jaist.ac.jp with ESMTP; 30 Jun 2011 22:55:41 +0900 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:55:38 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20110630.225538.251899443.yasu@jaist.ac.jp> To: ospf@ietf.org From: Yasuhiro Ohara X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="--Next_Part(Thu_Jun_30_22_55_38_2011_116)--" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [OSPF] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ohara-ospf-lsdb-monitoring-consideration-00.txt X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:56:33 -0000 ----Next_Part(Thu_Jun_30_22_55_38_2011_116)-- Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi OSPFers. I just wrote and submitted a draft regarding how to make the LSDB monitoring more secure. I would like to discuss the draft in the next Quebec meeting, and ask the WG to make it the WG's item. thanks very much in advance. Best regards, yasu ----Next_Part(Thu_Jun_30_22_55_38_2011_116)-- Content-Type: Message/Rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Received: from mailrelayi.jaist.ac.jp (mailrelayi.jaist.ac.jp [150.65.19.7]) by mailstore1.jaist.ac.jp (JAIST-MAIL) with ESMTP id <0LNK00LU5454JTF0@mailstore1.jaist.ac.jp> for yasu@jaist.ac.jp; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:55:52 +0900 (JST) Original-recipient: rfc822;yasu@jaist.ac.jp X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnUBACA8C07Lso6CmWdsb2JhbABSmGSPDAEBAQEBBg0LBxQlyk6GMASHNophkEo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,443,1304262000"; d="scan'208";a="100847873" Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (HELO mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp) ([203.178.142.130]) by mailrelayi.jaist.ac.jp with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:55:52 +0900 Received: by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) id EAF802780C6; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:55:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from ironport2.nezu.wide.ad.jp (ironport2.nezu.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.199]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF7E52780BB; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:55:51 +0900 (JST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Au0CAGU8C05AqmIekmdsb2JhbABSmGSOeBQBAQEBCQsLBxInyk+GMASHNophkEo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,443,1304262000"; d="scan'208";a="14319356" Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by ironport2.nezu.wide.ad.jp with ESMTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:55:49 +0900 Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83EC121F85AF; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:54:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: i-d-announce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-to: i-d-announce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3347D21F858E for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:54:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RiO8C4XGg5PA for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9CD721F858A for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:54:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ohara-ospf-lsdb-monitoring-consideration-00.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.55 Message-id: <20110629145423.28358.41921.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:54:23 -0700 X-BeenThere: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-to: internet-drafts@ietf.org List-Id: Internet Draft Announcements only List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org Errors-to: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Consideration on OSPF LSDB Monitoring Author(s) : Yasuhiro Ohara Akira Kato Filename : draft-ohara-ospf-lsdb-monitoring-consideration-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2011-06-29 Many people believe that any LSA once flooded throughout the OSPF area can be monitored on all OSPF routers in the area. This is not always true, and a malicious OSPF router that pretends to be legal may want to, and be able to, hide malicious LSAs. This document proposes the modifications to OSPF specification to prevent hiding the malicious LSAs, and to make LSDB monitoring more successful (hence, secure). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ohara-ospf-lsdb-monitoring-consideration-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ohara-ospf-lsdb-monitoring-consideration-00.txt _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt ----Next_Part(Thu_Jun_30_22_55_38_2011_116)----