From dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.com Fri Aug 3 20:05:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC9D121E805A for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:05:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QyeOzdo5JAmg for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smail6.alcatel.fr (smail6.alcatel.fr [62.23.212.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBBCE21E804C for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.62]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id q74353Lv003137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 05:05:04 +0200 Received: from FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.41]) by FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.62]) with mapi; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 05:05:03 +0200 From: "Papadimitriou, Dimitri (Dimitri)" To: "ospf@ietf.org" Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 05:05:00 +0200 Thread-Topic: TTZ discussion point Thread-Index: Ac1x7e9ngSz9lEdTTjC3IIAgN+JzKw== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.84 Subject: [OSPF] TTZ discussion point X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 03:05:07 -0000 Hi all, As part of the discussions during the OSPF WG meeting, the following comes = imho as the bottomline of the discussion for what concerns TTZ: what is the= potential gain =20 i) when TTZ is used as "replacement of" existing OSPF techniques (thus co= mpared to multi-area/ABR) ii) when TTZ is used "in complement to" OSPF techniques (thus in addition= to) The answer should help determining whether current multi-area/ABR is "too h= eavy for what it brings" vs there is a "third routing level" required in OS= PF to sustain large deployments.=20 In the latter case, assuming that multi-area/ABR is still appropriate, the = next question would be: is it more suited to look at different mechanism or= re-use as much as possible the existing one e.g. "sub-ABR" ? Opinions ? Comments ? Thanks, -dimitri. ----- Homepage: From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Sun Aug 5 10:05:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639DF21F84FD for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:05:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.547 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.547 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X9CSOBNvKvZT for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4AA021F84FB for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q75H4qRA005850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Aug 2012 12:04:52 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.190]) by eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) with mapi; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:04:52 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: "Fred Baker (fred)" Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:04:49 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC4750 (3292) Thread-Index: Ac1zLG1ko7+fsRyWR4mI2ATA5P8x5g== Message-ID: References: <20120723092102.7B34162189@rfc-editor.org> <7473805B-BD37-48F4-9A7D-59F4D827128C@ericsson.com> <050401cd69c6$1d2c8370$57858a50$@olddog.co.uk> <09EDC16F-7FFD-4327-9145-F1D7C3EA21C9@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-21-806869419"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "mikek@muonics.com" , "pgalecki@airvana.com" , "djoyal@nortel.com" , "ospf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC4750 (3292) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 17:05:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail-21-806869419 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Fred, On Jul 25, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: >=20 > On Jul 25, 2012, at 6:33 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: >=20 >> Hi Fred, >>=20 >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:51 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 11:11 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi Adrian, >>>>=20 >>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Hi, >>>>>=20 >>>>> This sort of erratum in a MIB module bothers me. >>>>> The trouble is that it changes the compilable content of the = module, if not the >>>>> key parts. >>>>>=20 >>>>> So, the order of process is: >>>>> - Is the erratum correct? >>>>> - Is a fix *required* (i.e., is the module unusable without it?) >>>>> - Can the erratum be held for a revision of the module? >>>>> - How urgent is such a revision? >>>>=20 >>>> Given that RFC 1850 has been around for over 17 years and there are = many existing implementations, I would suffice it to say that this = correction would not in and of itself warrant a revision. >>>> OTOH, there are problems with the OSPFv3 MIB ranges that should be = corrected with a revision. >>>=20 >>> Can we identify that set of issues? If we can list them along with = appropriate modifications, the paperwork exercise isn't all that hard = (apart from dealing with the MIB Doctors). >>=20 >> At a minimum, we need to fix the fact that ospfv3RestartAge and = ospfv3NbrRestartHelperAge are defined as Ospfv3UpToRefreshIntervalTC = which is Unsigned32 (1..1800). This poses a problem of what to return = when these MIB variables are not applicable since 0 is invalid. >> We may find some other additions and corrections now that we have = some implementation experience. Speaking as OSPF WG co-chair, we'd be = happy if you would be willing to take on this task. >=20 > If the object is inapplicable, why would it not be treated as if it = didn't exist in the scenario? On a GET, return noSuchObject, and on a = GET-NEXT or GET-BULK, skip it? Both objects are read-only. Do we have an = erratum on these? This is not an option since these are mandatory objects in the MIB = compliance.=20 >=20 > If you want to return a magic value such as zero, that's a change to = the TC plus some text to the effect that "zero is only used in" this = case. There are a number of other objects that use the TC; if you don't = see a need to change them (and you probably really don't want to be able = to configure, to name one, ospfv3IfRetransInterval to zero), we're = better off simply redefining the two objects as Integer32(0..1800) or = defining a new TC and changing the object definitions to that. This = suggestion might make the MIB Doctors crazy; as I understand it, the = data on the wire will be Integer32(0..1800) no matter what, so the TC = change is cosmetic. I would assume "there be dragons here" until someone = from MIB-land tells me otherwise. >=20 > Spinning a MIB triggers a lot of reviews; it would be good to know who = has implemented this and what their experience has been, from the = perspective of taking RFC 5643 to Draft Standard = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026#section-4.1.2) or Internet Standard = (RFC 6410). I agree but this change cannot be fixed with an errata.=20 >=20 > Looking on the web, I found at least two implementations, one of which = is read-only and doesn't implement 26 of the objects. >=20 > ospfv3HostAddressType > ospfv3HostAddress > ospfv3HostMetric > ospfv3HostRowStatus > ospfv3HostAreaID > ospfv3CfgNbrTable > ospfv3ExitOverflowInterval > ospfv3ReferenceBandwidth > ospfv3RestartSupport > ospfv3RestartInterval > ospfv3RestartStrictLsaChecking > ospfv3RestartStatus > ospfv3RestartAge > ospfv3RestartExitReason > ospfv3NotificationEnable > ospfv3StubRouterSupport > ospfv3StubRouterAdvertisement > ospfv3DiscontinuityTime > ospfv3RestartTime > ospfv3AreaNssaTranslatorRole > ospfv3AreaNssaTranslatorState > ospfv3AreaNssaTranslatorStabInterval > ospfv3AreaNssaTranslatorEvents > ospfv3AreaTEEnabled > ospfv3IfMetricValue > ospfv3IfDemandNbrProbe >=20 > As I understand it, going to Draft Standard or Internet Standard (are = we on the 2026 or 6410 model?) means removal/deprecation of anything we = can't show multiple interoperable implementation of. Really? >=20 >=20 > What I found: > = http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/routers/crs/software/crs_r4.2/routing/conf= iguration/guide/b_routing_cg42crs_chapter_0100.html#concept_0B3C41DB4B9C4B= A39FB2B1BDA0A777CD >=20 > = http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/en_US/junos/topics/reference/standards/snm= p-std-mibs-junos-nm.html (search for "5643"). >=20 > I'm not sure about Quagga's status. Google.com reports mostly that = Quagga doesn't implement the MIB, but I found a reference at = code.google.com to the effect that Google has developed an open source = implementation; the code the link takes me to is for GNU Zebra. >=20 > I think we would need to know who else has implemented it and what = they have done with it. And to be honest, I personally would like to = hear a little more "use in anger" before getting all revved up on this. I can poll the implementation that reported the problem. I suspect it = was just a matter of supplanting their MIB tools to allow 0 to be = returned.=20 >=20 >=20 > My suggestion: At this particular meeting, while I have a topic I = would like to kick around with Jari and others on the zospf-redux model = he's working on, I am scheduled into opsawg at the same time as ospf at = IETF 84, and I don't think the MIB is ready to have a f2f discussion on. = It's suggest that we kick it around on the mailing list with a view to = f2f discussion at IETF 85 or 86. We can start another thread. However, I believe we'll end up with the = same answer. Thanks, Acee=20 >=20 >> Thanks, >> Acee >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Acee >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> - Do we have candidates to revise the document? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Adrian (speaking as an AD who does MIB modules a bit, but not the = AD for OSPF) >>>>>=20 >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com] >>>>>> Sent: 24 July 2012 15:51 >>>>>> To: Joan Cucchiara >>>>>> Cc: djoyal@nortel.com; pgalecki@airvana.com; = spencer.giacalone@gmail.com; >>>>>> fred@cisco.com; stbryant@cisco.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk; = akr@cisco.com; >>>>>> mikek@muonics.com; ospf@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC4750 (3292) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi Joan, >>>>>> If you have a minute could you comment as to: >>>>>> 1. Is the subject Errata correct? >>>>>> 2. If so, does it have any consequence other than editorial = content? It >>>>> doesn't >>>>>> appear to me that any MIB tools have complained about it. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Acee >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Jul 23, 2012, at 5:21 AM, RFC Errata System wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC4750, >>>>>>> "OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base". >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -------------------------------------- >>>>>>> You may review the report below and at: >>>>>>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D4750&eid=3D3292 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Type: Editorial >>>>>>> Reported by: Michael Kirkham >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Section: 5 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Original Text >>>>>>> ------------- >>>>>>> ospfTrapCompliance MODULE-COMPLIANCE >>>>>>> STATUS obsolete >>>>>>> DESCRIPTION >>>>>>> "The compliance statement." >>>>>>> MODULE -- this module >>>>>>> MANDATORY-GROUPS { ospfTrapControlGroup } >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> GROUP ospfTrapControlGroup >>>>>>> DESCRIPTION >>>>>>> "This group is optional but recommended for all >>>>>>> OSPF systems." >>>>>>> ::=3D { ospfTrapCompliances 1 } >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Corrected Text >>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>> ospfTrapCompliance MODULE-COMPLIANCE >>>>>>> STATUS obsolete >>>>>>> DESCRIPTION >>>>>>> "The compliance statement." >>>>>>> MODULE -- this module >>>>>>> GROUP ospfTrapControlGroup >>>>>>> DESCRIPTION >>>>>>> "This group is optional but recommended for all >>>>>>> OSPF systems." >>>>>>> ::=3D { ospfTrapCompliances 1 } >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Notes >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> ospfTrapControlGroup is listed both in the MANDATORY-GROUPS = clause and in >>>>>> a GROUP clause. Per RFC 2580, Conformance Statements for SMIv2 = (brackets >>>>>> added to indicate pertinent rule): >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> "5.4.2. Mapping of the GROUP clause >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> The GROUP clause, which need not be present, is repeatedly used = to >>>>>>> name each object and notification group which is conditionally >>>>>>> mandatory for compliance to the MIB module. The GROUP clause = can >>>>>>> also be used to name unconditionally optional groups. [A group = named >>>>>>> in a GROUP clause must be absent from the correspondent = MANDATORY- >>>>>>> GROUPS clause.]" >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> It is listed in both clauses in RFC 1850 as well (which RFC 4750 = obsoletes). >>>>> It is >>>>>> STATUS current in RFC 1850 and STATUS obsolete in 4750; however, = obsolete or >>>>>> not, it is not legal according to SMI rules. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Instructions: >>>>>>> ------------- >>>>>>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, = please >>>>>>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or >>>>>>> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) >>>>>>> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if = necessary. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -------------------------------------- >>>>>>> RFC4750 (draft-ietf-ospf-mib-update-11) >>>>>>> -------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Title : OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base >>>>>>> Publication Date : December 2006 >>>>>>> Author(s) : D. Joyal, Ed., P. Galecki, Ed., S. = Giacalone, Ed., R. >>>>> Coltun, F. >>>>>> Baker >>>>>>> Category : PROPOSED STANDARD >>>>>>> Source : Open Shortest Path First IGP >>>>>>> Area : Routing >>>>>>> Stream : IETF >>>>>>> Verifying Party : IESG >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> The ignorance of how to use new knowledge stockpiles exponentially. >>> - Marshall McLuhan >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------- > The ignorance of how to use new knowledge stockpiles exponentially. > - Marshall McLuhan >=20 --Apple-Mail-21-806869419 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIM8jCCBDQw ggMcoAMCAQICECFWwVQHDV12M/Sr0yNv0sYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJp Y3Nzb24xJDAiBgNVBAMMG0VyaWNzc29uIE5MIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgQ0EwMTAeFw0xMDEwMDEyMDA0 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bdK6h0hQDzWuFSjB/0Tk1SSEVD312A5QAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-21-806869419-- From fred@cisco.com Sun Aug 5 13:48:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB57521F8568 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:48:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.258 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.258 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.341, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LjLt6VM+HIuE for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A29A21F8566 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:48:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; l=1629; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1344199681; x=1345409281; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=foopdOPHKOzFgKIX4bNDqhcYUHBwkLVSAUlrf0rzhgo=; b=Hunfc+hY//axfFKGSnIifgcPQRbWQpA7tgVxGAASAm8bkYJ5RO1P2z0Q b6JlUyYBCbvArgDdi4WOCbtr4KNgeZ3ZlkCL6U8MeYh6+kn1hCAm+Hfei ZL/rv422XbE/Vg65JG3suJDFT3G2m5+ZIar3i5nQb6yce6BBvTopFNnx4 E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAHLbHlCtJXG9/2dsb2JhbABEuT2BB4IgAQEBAwESAWYFCwIBCEYyJQIEDieHZQabQp5wkW5gA5VJjiaBZoJf X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,715,1336348800"; d="scan'208";a="108595631" Received: from rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com ([173.37.113.189]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Aug 2012 20:48:00 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com [173.36.12.86]) by rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q75Km0xJ016995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Aug 2012 20:48:00 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.9.97]) by xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com ([173.36.12.86]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 15:47:59 -0500 From: "Fred Baker (fred)" To: Acee Lindem Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC4750 (3292) Thread-Index: AQHNac1hnHxo3J5Hu0SjO6b8YqTJ+Q== Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 20:47:59 +0000 Message-ID: <4751417C-DCCF-4964-9EE4-05B197D12AF4@cisco.com> References: <20120723092102.7B34162189@rfc-editor.org> <7473805B-BD37-48F4-9A7D-59F4D827128C@ericsson.com> <050401cd69c6$1d2c8370$57858a50$@olddog.co.uk> <09EDC16F-7FFD-4327-9145-F1D7C3EA21C9@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.32.244.221] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19088.001 x-tm-as-result: No--26.824000-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <66865C5EE07AEC40A9A9E585E6211B55@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "mikek@muonics.com" , "pgalecki@airvana.com" , "djoyal@nortel.com" , "ospf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC4750 (3292) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:48:02 -0000 >>> At a minimum, we need to fix the fact that ospfv3RestartAge and ospfv3N= brRestartHelperAge are defined as Ospfv3UpToRefreshIntervalTC which is Uns= igned32 (1..1800). This poses a problem of what to return when these MIB va= riables are not applicable since 0 is invalid. >>> We may find some other additions and corrections now that we have some = implementation experience. Speaking as OSPF WG co-chair, we'd be happy if y= ou would be willing to take on this task. >>=20 >> If the object is inapplicable, why would it not be treated as if it didn= 't exist in the scenario? On a GET, return noSuchObject, and on a GET-NEXT = or GET-BULK, skip it? Both objects are read-only. Do we have an erratum on = these? >=20 > This is not an option since these are mandatory objects in the MIB compli= ance.=20 Mandatory to implement. I didn't say "don't implement them", I said "don't = respond with them when they are inappropriate". By your argument, they can = never be zero, because they will always have a value in 1..1800, because th= ey are mandatory. > I can poll the implementation that reported the problem. I suspect it was= just a matter of supplanting their MIB tools to allow 0 to be returned.=20 "Just"=85 If the objects can have a value that is not in 1..1800, their range must in= clude the other value. We can create a new TC or simply use 0..1800, but we= have to somehow explain what zero means. If we change the TC that the two = objects use right now, that also affects a number of ReadCreate objects: un= der what circumstances may they be created with the value zero?= From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Sun Aug 5 13:55:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95A121F84D8 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:55:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29C02tJ-Nc95 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BFBA21F8476 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id q75KtZ47027729; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 15:55:36 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.190]) by eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) with mapi; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 16:55:29 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: "Fred Baker (fred)" Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 16:55:27 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC4750 (3292) Thread-Index: Ac1zTKV/ooMx4uydRk+yRh3B0HDhww== Message-ID: References: <20120723092102.7B34162189@rfc-editor.org> <7473805B-BD37-48F4-9A7D-59F4D827128C@ericsson.com> <050401cd69c6$1d2c8370$57858a50$@olddog.co.uk> <09EDC16F-7FFD-4327-9145-F1D7C3EA21C9@ericsson.com> <4751417C-DCCF-4964-9EE4-05B197D12AF4@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4751417C-DCCF-4964-9EE4-05B197D12AF4@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-35-820707710"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "mikek@muonics.com" , "pgalecki@airvana.com" , "djoyal@nortel.com" , "ospf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC4750 (3292) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:55:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail-35-820707710 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Aug 5, 2012, at 4:47 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: >>>> At a minimum, we need to fix the fact that ospfv3RestartAge and = ospfv3NbrRestartHelperAge are defined as Ospfv3UpToRefreshIntervalTC = which is Unsigned32 (1..1800). This poses a problem of what to return = when these MIB variables are not applicable since 0 is invalid. >>>> We may find some other additions and corrections now that we have = some implementation experience. Speaking as OSPF WG co-chair, we'd be = happy if you would be willing to take on this task. >>>=20 >>> If the object is inapplicable, why would it not be treated as if it = didn't exist in the scenario? On a GET, return noSuchObject, and on a = GET-NEXT or GET-BULK, skip it? Both objects are read-only. Do we have an = erratum on these? >>=20 >> This is not an option since these are mandatory objects in the MIB = compliance.=20 >=20 > Mandatory to implement. I didn't say "don't implement them", I said = "don't respond with them when they are inappropriate". By your argument, = they can never be zero, because they will always have a value in = 1..1800, because they are mandatory. I discussed this with one MIB expert in Vancouver and their opinion was = that if they are mandatory, a value must be returned as well.=20 >=20 >> I can poll the implementation that reported the problem. I suspect it = was just a matter of supplanting their MIB tools to allow 0 to be = returned.=20 >=20 > "Just"=85 >=20 > If the objects can have a value that is not in 1..1800, their range = must include the other value. We can create a new TC or simply use = 0..1800, but we have to somehow explain what zero means. If we change = the TC that the two objects use right now, that also affects a number of = ReadCreate objects: under what circumstances may they be created with = the value zero? My comment was based on the fact that short of a MIB respin, there = didn't appear to be a viable option.=20 Thanks, Acee=20= --Apple-Mail-35-820707710 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIM8jCCBDQw ggMcoAMCAQICECFWwVQHDV12M/Sr0yNv0sYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJp Y3Nzb24xJDAiBgNVBAMMG0VyaWNzc29uIE5MIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgQ0EwMTAeFw0xMDEwMDEyMDA0 NTlaFw0xMzEwMDEyMDA0NDhaMG8xETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMR8wHQYDVQQDDBZBY2VlIExp bmRlbSBMaW5kZW0gSUlJMRAwDgYDVQQFEwdlYWxmbGluMScwJQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhhhY2VlLmxp bmRlbUBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb20wgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAI/Dc9ALiZuBMyuv bsc3eBxjXZpMi45Z0vzsUQZTJGTBeY7p9JsdzXC9J1uMisBxYVi39R3KJo6I4hXVp9wrA1rxh4AE bnP1+Gxfpj33uWEFYbBnVAJkIWYWF7CYTn8Zm/yd13vPXtuGA6ESeLnnJafwC9Y0YwUQ+4HX7PNv uauVAgMBAAGjggGEMIIBgDCBwAYDVR0fBIG4MIG1MIGyoIGvoIGshjdodHRwOi8vY3JsLnRydXN0 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No, score=-6.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mdf4dipK5s72 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 12:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A4B11E8111 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 12:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q78Jvqs8015726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 14:59:35 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.190]) by eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) with mapi; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:59:30 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: OSPF List Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:59:27 -0400 Thread-Topic: OSPF IETF 84 Minutes Thread-Index: Ac11oFHbWYd/xmojQlamo1K/IKdIqw== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-3--1070935915"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [OSPF] OSPF IETF 84 Minutes X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:59:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail-3--1070935915 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As you can see, we have a lot to discuss on the list in order to make = progress:=20 http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/minutes/minutes-84-ospf Thanks, Acee and Abhay=20= --Apple-Mail-3--1070935915 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B831D21F853A for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 13:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id q78KGvMT022989 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:17:02 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.190]) by eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) with mapi; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 16:16:50 -0400 From: Acee Lindem CC: OSPF List Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 16:16:49 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] OSPF IETF 84 Minutes Thread-Index: Ac11or4s9LFh0LFTRr+0gBwazvDigQ== Message-ID: <7608FA30-1D80-4A69-AC7F-B1CF418BC35D@ericsson.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-5--1069894164"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF IETF 84 Minutes X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 20:17:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail-5--1069894164 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For those of you who looked - the proper minutes have been uploaded.=20 http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/minutes/minutes-84-ospf Thanks, Acee On Aug 8, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Acee Lindem wrote: > As you can see, we have a lot to discuss on the list in order to make = progress:=20 >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/minutes/minutes-84-ospf >=20 > Thanks, > Acee and Abhay = _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf --Apple-Mail-5--1069894164 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" 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X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,748,1336348800"; d="scan'208,217";a="142274299" Received: from ams-core-4.cisco.com ([144.254.72.77]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Aug 2012 21:40:56 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7ALeuen026687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:40:56 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id q7ALesUj014348; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 22:40:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <50257FE6.1090603@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 22:40:54 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ospf@ietf.org" References: <20120613225035.31215.63900.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20120613225035.31215.63900.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20120613225035.31215.63900.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060800040808050108040906" Cc: "ospf-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" Subject: [OSPF] Fwd: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:41:05 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060800040808050108040906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking at the web archive of the OSPF list traffic, it is uncertain as to whether this message reached the whole of the OSPF WG. I am therefore resending this IPR statement to the OSPF WG list. The draft is on the telechat for 30-August-2012, please contact a member of the IESG if you have any concerns regarding IPR on this draft. Regards Stewart -------- Original Message -------- Subject: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:50:35 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat To: akr@cisco.com, alvaro.retana@hp.com, yiya@cisco.com CC: stbryant@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, akr@cisco.com, acee.lindem@ericsson.com, ospf@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org Dear Abhay Roy, Alvaro Retana, Yi Yang: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Hiding Transit-only Networks in OSPF" (draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2012-06-13 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1798/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03.""); The IETF Secretariat --------------060800040808050108040906 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Looking at the web archive of the OSPF list traffic, it is
uncertain as to whether this message reached the
whole of the OSPF WG.

I am therefore resending this IPR statement to the OSPF
WG list.

The draft is on the telechat for 30-August-2012, please
contact a member of the IESG if you have any concerns
regarding IPR on this draft.

Regards

Stewart

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:50:35 -0700
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-ipr@ietf.org>
To: akr@cisco.com, alvaro.retana@hp.com, yiya@cisco.com
CC: stbryant@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, akr@cisco.com, acee.lindem@ericsson.com, ospf@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org 


Dear Abhay Roy, Alvaro Retana, Yi Yang:

 An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Hiding
Transit-only Networks in OSPF" (draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding) was submitted to
the IETF Secretariat on 2012-06-13 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of
Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1798/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03."");

The IETF Secretariat



--------------060800040808050108040906-- From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Fri Aug 17 11:30:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9637721E8048; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:30:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.538 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.538 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TalqTCcN6VJa; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15D211E809B; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7HIU7fl032446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Aug 2012 13:30:09 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.190]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 14:30:07 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: "stbryant@cisco.com" Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 14:30:05 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Fwd: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03 Thread-Index: Ac18plNhX3SzcxKgRZO6O1cidDpUAQ== Message-ID: <0ABCDFD6-2ADF-41ED-BD6B-B040AA8A1C1A@ericsson.com> References: <20120613225035.31215.63900.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <50257FE6.1090603@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <50257FE6.1090603@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-4--298698458"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:30:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail-4--298698458 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--298698474 --Apple-Mail-3--298698474 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Stewart,=20 My apologies for not replying sooner - I have been on vacation with very = limited cell/Internet access. The IPR was disclosed each time the draft = was presented or covered in the WG document status IETF OSPF WG meetings = (starting with Bejing).=20 Also, it was reiterated during when the WG last call was started.=20 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ospf/current/msg06292.html Also, it was included in the document shepherd write-up.=20 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ospf/current/msg06370.html Finally, the patent is referenced in the draft itself in the = acknowledgments.=20 10. Acknowledgments The draft text was produced using Stefan Santesson's NroffEdit application. The idea of using a special subnet mask to hide broadcast networks in OSPF was originally introduced in the US patent "Apparatus and method to hide transit only multi-access networks in OSPF" (patent number: 7,929,524), by Yi Yang, Alvaro Retana, James Ng, Abhay Roy, Alfred Lindem, Sina Mirtorabi, Timothy Gage, and Khalid Raza. The authors would like to thank Acee Lindem, Shraddha Hegde, Rajesh Shetty, Marek Karasek, Michael Barnes, and Paul Wells, for their feedback on the document. Thanks Much, Acee On Aug 10, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: >=20 > Looking at the web archive of the OSPF list traffic, it is > uncertain as to whether this message reached the=20 > whole of the OSPF WG. >=20 > I am therefore resending this IPR statement to the OSPF > WG list. >=20 > The draft is on the telechat for 30-August-2012, please > contact a member of the IESG if you have any concerns > regarding IPR on this draft. >=20 > Regards >=20 > Stewart >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to = draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03 > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:50:35 -0700 > From: IETF Secretariat > To: akr@cisco.com, alvaro.retana@hp.com, yiya@cisco.com > CC: stbryant@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, akr@cisco.com, = acee.lindem@ericsson.com, ospf@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org >=20 > Dear Abhay Roy, Alvaro Retana, Yi Yang: >=20 > An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled = "Hiding > Transit-only Networks in OSPF" (draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding) was = submitted to > the IETF Secretariat on 2012-06-13 and has been posted on the "IETF = Page of > Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1798/). The title of the IPR = disclosure is > "Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to = draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03.""); >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf --Apple-Mail-3--298698474 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Stewart, 

My apologies for not replying sooner - = I have been on vacation with very limited cell/Internet access. The IPR = was disclosed each time the draft was presented or covered in the WG = document status IETF OSPF WG meetings (starting with = Bejing). 

Also, it was reiterated during = when the WG last call was started. 


Also, it was included in the document shepherd = write-up. 


Finally, the patent is referenced in the draft itself = in the acknowledgments. 

10. =
Acknowledgments

   The draft text was produced using Stefan Santesson's NroffEdit
   application.

   The idea of using a special subnet mask to hide broadcast networks in
   OSPF was originally introduced in the US patent "Apparatus and method
   to hide transit only multi-access networks in OSPF" (patent number:
   7,929,524), by Yi Yang, Alvaro Retana, James Ng, Abhay Roy, Alfred
   Lindem, Sina Mirtorabi, Timothy Gage, and Khalid Raza.

   The authors would like to thank Acee Lindem, Shraddha Hegde, Rajesh
   Shetty, Marek Karasek, Michael Barnes, and Paul Wells, for their
   feedback on the document.

Thanks = Much,
Acee



On Aug 10, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote:

=20 =20

Looking at the web archive of the OSPF list traffic, it is
uncertain as to whether this message reached the
whole of the OSPF WG.

I am therefore resending this IPR statement to the OSPF
WG list.

The draft is on the telechat for 30-August-2012, please
contact a member of the IESG if you have any concerns
regarding IPR on this draft.

Regards

Stewart

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:50:35 -0700
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-ipr@ietf.org>
To: = akr@cisco.com, alvaro.retana@hp.com, yiya@cisco.com
CC: = stbryant@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, akr@cisco.com, acee.lindem@ericsson.com, = ospf@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org 


Dear Abhay Roy, Alvaro Retana, Yi Yang:

 An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Hiding
Transit-only Networks in OSPF" (draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding) was =
submitted to
the IETF Secretariat on 2012-06-13 and has been posted on the "IETF Page =
of
Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/ipr/1798/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to =
draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-03."");

The IETF Secretariat



_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing = list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/ospf

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BAYES_00=-2.599, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2YIF+HeASkCj for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 07:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB40D21F8668 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 07:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id q7LEUp62017440; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 09:30:55 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.166]) by eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) with mapi; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:29:47 -0400 From: Acee Lindem Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:29:44 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Publication request for OSPF Hybrid Broadcast and P2MP Interface Type - draft-ietf-ospf-hybrid-bcast-and-p2mp-02.txt Thread-Index: Ac1/qWnjGVMw5r6XSyeNEBa2yEEwxw== Message-ID: <734F632D-343F-468F-BCD6-62555AD941C7@ericsson.com> References: <3D4F9603-65A7-45C7-A679-A43E2AA0A19C@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <3D4F9603-65A7-45C7-A679-A43E2AA0A19C@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-8-32481300"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Jeffrey \(Zhaohui\) Zhang" , OSPF List Subject: Re: [OSPF] Publication request for OSPF Hybrid Broadcast and P2MP Interface Type - draft-ietf-ospf-hybrid-bcast-and-p2mp-02.txt X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 14:29:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail-8-32481300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii During IESG review I was requested to specifically solicit comments on = the IPR declaration for the subject draft. Is there any discussion on = the IPR? I've excerpted the relevant question from the document shepherd = write-up.=20 (8) Has an IPR disclosure been filed that references this document? If so, summarize any discussion and conclusion regarding the IPR disclosures. =20 Yes - Defensive patent.=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1529/=20 Thanks, Acee On May 7, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Acee Lindem wrote: > Hi Stewart, >=20 > Please publish draft-ietf-ospf-hybrid-bcast-and-p2mp-02.txt as a = Standards Track RFC.=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Acee=20 >=20 > = ____________________________________= ___________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf --Apple-Mail-8-32481300 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIM8jCCBDQw ggMcoAMCAQICECFWwVQHDV12M/Sr0yNv0sYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJp Y3Nzb24xJDAiBgNVBAMMG0VyaWNzc29uIE5MIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgQ0EwMTAeFw0xMDEwMDEyMDA0 NTlaFw0xMzEwMDEyMDA0NDhaMG8xETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMR8wHQYDVQQDDBZBY2VlIExp 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agrawal.ga@gmail.com Thu Aug 23 12:20:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8532F21F85A7 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:20:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wAHx0f50D0qT for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com (mail-pz0-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A107921F85A0 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dadf8 with SMTP id f8so543450dad.31 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:20:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=rPXvgYTDerDwjnuBKOSw13IaCgAi8cYAQZFMi+C0Uy4=; b=BjHGo0/4CDDnS40vV/GKpHDn3WEcKfA2e1e/pO5vKrKFv/7CkIkCdzsFU3PrJAo1Wi tsA/AZdZPtlhcys3lk2t9x6pFpmqwhK+vYlN3Ear5vqB5XkRTN6vlH6kWEdPH7SSwENE hfMRraXRxnDnNZXDBUCCXtRaGXRIpVBFuNbicv9/lFOYbq2FGE+SgcbVr2JgSVoLQ/KH tmlSNmfDxYnTaOS3QpptqtR9Ew30lPG9LCCz7ld+IOT5loqxqIot1aoWE721bSmsb0TB 7EKKzzlxLbYIvOyXk94gE2Hm7GdX65cXVZV1KOmz8xdFyuLfJFrNDhWd0AaLoY/Ne7V1 odow== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.116.37 with SMTP id jt5mr7198526pbb.6.1345749605136; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.31.225 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:20:05 -0700 Message-ID: From: Gaurav Agrawal To: ospf@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff24d0f2bba4e04c7f3bf20 Subject: [OSPF] question about Opaque LSA (RFC 5250) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:20:06 -0000 --e89a8ff24d0f2bba4e04c7f3bf20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, I have couple of questions about reachability of originator of Type 11 Opaque LSA. According to RFC, When processing a received type-11 Opaque LSA, the router MUST look up the routing table entries (potentially one per attached area) for the ASBR that originated the LSA. If no entries exist for the ASBR (i.e., the ASBR is unreachable), the router MUST do nothing with this LSA. 1. Should the LSA still be flooded if originator is not reachable? In my understanding the reachability check should be done while while processing the data in LSA not while flooding the LSA. Can someone clarify? 2. Since, OSPF itself will not use the opaque data, does this imply that OSPF needs to notify the application that originator of opaque data is unreachable and opaque data is stale. Thanks, Gaurav --e89a8ff24d0f2bba4e04c7f3bf20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
=A0=A0=A0=A0I have couple of questions about reachabilit= y of originator of Type 11 Opaque LSA. According to RFC, When processing a = received type-11 Opaque LSA, the router MUST=A0look up the routing table en= tries (potentially one per attached=A0area) for the ASBR that originated th= e LSA.=A0 If no entries exist=A0for the ASBR (i.e., the ASBR is unreachable= ), the router MUST do=A0nothing with this LSA.
=A0
1. Should the LSA still be flooded if originator is not = reachable?=A0 In my understanding the reachability check should be done whi= le while processing the data in LSA not while flooding the LSA. Can someone= clarify?
=A0
2. Since, OSPF itself will not use the opaque data, does= this imply that OSPF needs to notify the application that originator of op= aque data is unreachable and opaque data is stale.
=A0
Thanks,
Gaurav
=A0
--e89a8ff24d0f2bba4e04c7f3bf20-- From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Thu Aug 23 12:33:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F5321F861B for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:33:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.101, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qSUwQc8Bg+4s for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6363921F85A5 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7NJX1Il022161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Aug 2012 14:33:02 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.166]) by eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) with mapi; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:33:00 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: Gaurav Agrawal Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:32:58 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] question about Opaque LSA (RFC 5250) Thread-Index: Ac2BZhsWxahyUJEdSz+M5gr1F1DBsA== Message-ID: <5B858D78-472B-4FFC-AF24-2B882F13647F@ericsson.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-5-223475197"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [OSPF] question about Opaque LSA (RFC 5250) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:33:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail-5-223475197 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Gaurav,=20 On Aug 23, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Gaurav Agrawal wrote: > Hi, > I have couple of questions about reachability of originator of = Type 11 Opaque LSA. According to RFC, When processing a received type-11 = Opaque LSA, the router MUST look up the routing table entries = (potentially one per attached area) for the ASBR that originated the = LSA. If no entries exist for the ASBR (i.e., the ASBR is unreachable), = the router MUST do nothing with this LSA. > =20 > 1. Should the LSA still be flooded if originator is not reachable?=20 Of course, there is no advertising router reachability checking prior to = flooding.=20 > In my understanding the reachability check should be done while while = processing the data in LSA not while flooding the LSA. Yes. Consider this in terms of the non-opaque LSAs, an OSPF router will = not install routes corresponding to a Router-LSA or AS-External-LSA if = the advertising router is not reachable.=20 > Can someone clarify? > =20 > 2. Since, OSPF itself will not use the opaque data, does this imply = that OSPF needs to notify the application that originator of opaque data = is unreachable and opaque data is stale. That is an implementation detail but an OSPF API to determine if the = originator is essentially implied. The details of the API, e.g., = notification or polling, are not part of the specification.=20 Hope this helps,=20 Acee=20 > =20 > Thanks, > Gaurav > =20 --Apple-Mail-5-223475197 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIM8jCCBDQw ggMcoAMCAQICECFWwVQHDV12M/Sr0yNv0sYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJp Y3Nzb24xJDAiBgNVBAMMG0VyaWNzc29uIE5MIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgQ0EwMTAeFw0xMDEwMDEyMDA0 NTlaFw0xMzEwMDEyMDA0NDhaMG8xETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMR8wHQYDVQQDDBZBY2VlIExp bmRlbSBMaW5kZW0gSUlJMRAwDgYDVQQFEwdlYWxmbGluMScwJQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhhhY2VlLmxp bmRlbUBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb20wgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAI/Dc9ALiZuBMyuv bsc3eBxjXZpMi45Z0vzsUQZTJGTBeY7p9JsdzXC9J1uMisBxYVi39R3KJo6I4hXVp9wrA1rxh4AE bnP1+Gxfpj33uWEFYbBnVAJkIWYWF7CYTn8Zm/yd13vPXtuGA6ESeLnnJafwC9Y0YwUQ+4HX7PNv 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amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EXv+dTy9uGIE for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fep20.mx.upcmail.net (fep20.mx.upcmail.net [62.179.121.40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D594021F846F for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from edge02.upcmail.net ([192.168.13.237]) by viefep20-int.chello.at (InterMail vM.8.01.05.05 201-2260-151-110-20120111) with ESMTP id <20120830234441.YJTR26345.viefep20-int.chello.at@edge02.upcmail.net> for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 01:44:41 +0200 Received: from localhost ([78.102.192.149]) by edge02.upcmail.net with edge id tBkf1j00N3DrYrS02Bkfxv; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 01:44:41 +0200 X-SourceIP: 78.102.192.149 Received: from santiago by localhost with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T7EnR-0006FO-QC for ospf@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:09:13 +0200 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:09:13 +0200 From: Ondrej Zajicek To: ospf@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120831000913.GA21888@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Subject: [OSPF] Next hop calculation on PtP links over LAN X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:44:45 -0000 Hello RFC 2328 does not specify how next hop should be computed on PtP ifaces - it is supposed that a next hop IP is not needed [1], which is true for physical PtP links, but not for PtP over LAN, as described in RFC 5309. Although RFC 5309 acknowledges a need for next hop IP on such PtP links, surprisingly it also does not specify how next hop should be computed in OSPFv2 (if i did not miss someting). To my knowledge, there are at least two currently used schemes: 1) Use value from Link Data field, in a same way of how RFC 2328 specifies next hop computation for Point-to-Multipoint links. This scheme has several problems (e.g. does not work for unnumbered links and there is no reliable way to match links from neighbor's router LSA to my links if there are parallel links). 2) Use neighbor IP address from neighbor data structure of the neighbor on given iface. This is probably more robust, but a bit strange, as neighbor data structure is otherwise not used in routing table calculation. Any comments on how next hop computation should be done in this case? Slightly related question: Is it true that link-back check is broken in OSPFv2 when there are parallel (unnumbered) links between two routers? Footnote [23] says it is OK, but if router A has two links to router B, while router B has just one link (in its router LSA), then router A during routing table computation could select link that independently would fail link-back check. [1] RFC 238: "If the destination is a directly connected network, or a router which connects to the calculating router via a point-to-point interface, no next hop IP address is required." -- Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo Ondrej 'Santiago' Zajicek (email: santiago@crfreenet.org) OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net) "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so." From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Fri Aug 31 08:03:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3AD21F8618 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:03:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.506 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B60AZeYdxgXN for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA7F21F85DA for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id q7VF5liW003075; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:05:56 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.166]) by eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) with mapi; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:03:31 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: Ondrej Zajicek Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:03:29 -0400 Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Next hop calculation on PtP links over LAN Thread-Index: Ac2Hicg7qTrTJADcTo6tN0nsX7uvuw== Message-ID: References: <20120831000913.GA21888@localhost> In-Reply-To: <20120831000913.GA21888@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-2-898505973"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Next hop calculation on PtP links over LAN X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 15:03:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail-2-898505973 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Ondrej,=20 See inline. =20 On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Ondrej Zajicek wrote: > Hello >=20 > RFC 2328 does not specify how next hop should be computed on PtP = ifaces > - it is supposed that a next hop IP is not needed [1], which is true = for > physical PtP links, but not for PtP over LAN, as described in RFC = 5309. > Although RFC 5309 acknowledges a need for next hop IP on such PtP = links, > surprisingly it also does not specify how next hop should be computed = in > OSPFv2 (if i did not miss someting). >=20 > To my knowledge, there are at least two currently used schemes: >=20 > 1) Use value from Link Data field, in a same way of how RFC 2328 > specifies next hop computation for Point-to-Multipoint links. > This scheme has several problems (e.g. does not work for unnumbered > links and there is no reliable way to match links from neighbor's = router > LSA to my links if there are parallel links). >=20 > 2) Use neighbor IP address from neighbor data structure of the = neighbor on > given iface. This is probably more robust, but a bit strange, as = neighbor > data structure is otherwise not used in routing table calculation. >=20 > Any comments on how next hop computation should be done in this case? Many layer 2 implementations support P2P ethernet as a true = point-to-point topology. For P2P, my implementation uses #2 independent = of whether the P2P is a true layer 2 P2P or a layer 3 emulation of P2P = over a LAN topology. The RIB layer determines whether it is necessary.=20= >=20 >=20 > Slightly related question: Is it true that link-back check is broken = in > OSPFv2 when there are parallel (unnumbered) links between two routers? It is true that you cannot not unambiguously differentiate between the = parallel unnumbered P2P links. However, for the unicast routing = hop-by-hop paradigm, it shouldn't matter since we know the OSPF LSDBs = should be synchronized and the IP routing tables should be consistent. = For paradigm, e.g., traffic engineering, it is necessary to be able to = uniquely identify the links. Note that no ambiguity exists in OSPFv3.=20 I'd be interested in other opinions.=20 Hope this helps, Acee=20 > Footnote [23] says it is OK, but if router A has two links to router = B, > while router B has just one link (in its router LSA), then router A = during > routing table computation could select link that independently would > fail link-back check. >=20 >=20 > [1] RFC 238: "If the destination is a directly connected network, or a > router which connects to the calculating router via a point-to-point > interface, no next hop IP address is required." >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo >=20 > Ondrej 'Santiago' Zajicek (email: santiago@crfreenet.org) > OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, = wwwkeys.pgp.net) > "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so." > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf --Apple-Mail-2-898505973 Content-Disposition: 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