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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: Gabi Nakibly <gnakibly@yahoo.com>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on "Security Extension for OSPFv2 when using Manual Key Management" - draft-ietf-ospf-security-extension-manual-keying-07
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Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 01:11:11 +0000
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Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on "Security Extension for OSPFv2 when using Manual Key Management" - draft-ietf-ospf-security-extension-manual-keying-07
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Hi Gabi,
Sorry for the delay - I agree that a replay could be accomplished in this s=
cenario if it is captured on one interface and replayed on another before a=
ny other packets are sent. Interfaces having the same source address are li=
mited to unnumbered links which are inherently P2P. At a minimum, we will d=
ocument this case.
Thanks,
Acee

On Apr 29, 2014, at 9:18 AM, Gabi Nakibly <gnakibly@yahoo.com<mailto:gnakib=
ly@yahoo.com>> wrote:

Hi Acee,
Thanks for the reply.
Just to clarify my thoughts, I believe that the use of a single sequence nu=
mber space per router does not prevent the attack. Here is an example. Let'=
s say a router is attached to two links (A and B) while using the same IP a=
ddress. Let's say the attacker has recorded an Hello message the router jus=
t sent on link A. When the router sends this message its SN is higher than =
any other packet sent on any other link by that router. The attacker would =
now be able successfully replay the recorded Hello message on link B as lon=
g as it does so before the router sends another OSPF message on link B. Suc=
h an attack will probably bring down all adjacencies of the router on link =
B.

I think it would be good to document this type of attacks as many network o=
perators configure the same key on different links. It would be good to bri=
ng to their attention the consequences of such configurations. If you wish,=
 I can assist in writing this.

Gabi

________________________________
From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com<mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com=
>>
To: Gabi Nakibly <gnakibly@yahoo.com<mailto:gnakibly@yahoo.com>>
Cc: Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com<mailto:akr@cisco.com>>; OSPF List <ospf@ietf.o=
rg<mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on "Security Extension for OSPF=
v2 when using Manual Key Management" - draft-ietf-ospf-security-extension-m=
anual-keying-07

Hi Gabi,
Thanks much for your review and comment.

On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:39 AM, Gabi Nakibly <gnakibly@yahoo.com<mailto:gnakib=
ly@yahoo.com>> wrote:

Hi,
I think this document is a significant step forward for the security of OSP=
F. I do have one comment, though. It is concerned with the case in which th=
e same key is configured on different links. If such a situation occurs the=
n an attacker might be able to record an OSPF message on one link and repla=
y it on another. This is particularly relevant for cases where one router u=
ses the same source address in multiple links (e.g. a virtual link and a ph=
ysical link). So the attacker can record a packet sent by that router on on=
e of the links and replay it over the other as if it was sent by the router=
 itself. This may allow an attacker to cause an adjacency to be brought dow=
n.

Note that in section 2 we are recommending one sequence number space for th=
e OSPF router as opposed to one per interface. Hence, this would have to be=
 a replayed packet received from another router with the same source addres=
s since the OSPF Router ID in the OSPF header would be protected by the aut=
hentication hash. I would consider this to be a misconfiguration.

Moreover, a recorded Hello message may be replayed on arbitrary links (even=
 those that do not share a router using the same source address). If I am n=
ot mistaken, RFC2328 does not mandate to discard an Hello message having a =
source address that is not part of the subnet of the interface on which the=
 message was received.

RFC 2328 does mandate source subnet checking on multi-access networks but n=
ot P2P networks. On P2P networks, this could be a problem but would require=
 the attacker to have an active tap on both the P2P interface and another i=
nterface using the same key.  Again, this would have to be a replayed packe=
t received from another router due to the OSPF router=92s use a single sequ=
ence number space. There really isn=92t a good solution for this problem on=
 P2P links since the routers don=92t share any common identifier for the P2=
P link. They have an ifIndex but this is a locally unique interface identif=
ier. We can document the problem and recommend use of different keys if the=
 possibility of active taps on P2P interfaces exists.

Thanks,
Acee

Therefore, the recipient of the replayed message would allocate a new neigh=
bor entry, thus giving rise to a DoS attack.

I know that the OSPF standard allows to configure different keys for differ=
ent links, nonetheless in most of the OSPF deployments I have seen the same=
 key is configured for all links in the AS (or area). I do not know if this=
 is representative of OSPF deployments worldwide, but it might be prudent t=
o analyse the security of the proposed extensions in the context of such ca=
ses as well.

Gabi

________________________________
From: Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com<mailto:akr@cisco.com>>
To: "ospf@ietf.org<mailto:ospf@ietf.org>" <ospf@ietf.org<mailto:ospf@ietf.o=
rg>>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 9:30 AM
Subject: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on "Security Extension for OSPFv2 w=
hen using Manual Key Management" - draft-ietf-ospf-security-extension-manua=
l-keying-07

All,

We are starting a WG LC on the subject document. Document has been
stable for a while, and Manav was kind enough to present it one last
time in IETF89 (London). LC will end at 9am PST on 25th April 2014.

Please review the document and send any final comments prior to the LC
deadline.

Regards,
-Abhay

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org<mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf


_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org<mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf





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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space;">
Hi Gabi,&nbsp;
<div>Sorry for the delay - I agree that a replay could be accomplished in t=
his scenario if it is captured on one interface and replayed on another bef=
ore any other packets are sent. Interfaces having the same source address a=
re limited to unnumbered links which
 are inherently P2P. At a minimum, we will document this case.&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Apr 29, 2014, at 9:18 AM, Gabi Nakibly &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gnakib=
ly@yahoo.com">gnakibly@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaN=
eue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-=
size: 10pt;">
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"">Hi Acee,</span></div=
>
<div style=3D"font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue'=
, Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transpar=
ent; font-style: normal;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"">Thanks for the reply.</span></div>
<div style=3D"background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=3D"=
"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'H=
elvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">Just to cla=
rify my thoughts, I believe that the use
 of a single sequence number space per router does not prevent the attack. =
Here is an example. Let's say a router is attached to two links (A and B) w=
hile using the same IP address. Let's say the attacker has recorded an Hell=
o message the router just sent on
 link A. When the router sends this message its SN is higher than any other=
 packet sent on any other link by that router. The attacker would now be ab=
le successfully replay the recorded Hello message on link B as long as it d=
oes so before the router sends another
 OSPF message on link B. Such an attack will probably bring down all adjace=
ncies of the router on link B.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue'=
, Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transpar=
ent; font-style: normal;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"" style=3D""><br class=3D"" style=3D"">
</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">I think it would be good to document this type o=
f attacks as many network operators configure the same key on different lin=
ks. It would be good to bring to their attention the consequences of such c=
onfigurations. If you wish, I can assist
 in writing this.</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue'=
, Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transpar=
ent; font-style: normal;" class=3D"">
Gabi</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,=
 Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,=
 Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt" class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<hr size=3D"1" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" class=3D"" style=3D""><b class=3D"" style=
=3D""><span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">From:</span></b> Acee Lin=
dem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com">acee.lindem@ericsson.co=
m</a>&gt;<br class=3D"" style=3D"">
<b class=3D"" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-weight: bold" class=3D"">To:</=
span></b> Gabi Nakibly &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gnakibly@yahoo.com">gnakibly@y=
ahoo.com</a>&gt;
<br class=3D"" style=3D"">
<b class=3D"" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-weight: bold" class=3D"">Cc:</=
span></b> Abhay Roy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akr@cisco.com">akr@cisco.com</a>&=
gt;; OSPF List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org">ospf@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<br class=3D"" style=3D"">
<b class=3D"" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-weight: bold" class=3D"">Sent:=
</span></b> Monday, April 28, 2014 6:06 PM<br class=3D"" style=3D"">
<b class=3D"" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-weight: bold" class=3D"">Subje=
ct:</span></b> Re: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on &quot;Security Extensi=
on for OSPFv2 when using Manual Key Management&quot; - draft-ietf-ospf-secu=
rity-extension-manual-keying-07<br class=3D"" style=3D"">
</font></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div id=3D"yiv5585511355" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">Hi Gabi,&nbsp;
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">Thanks much for your review and comment.</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:39 AM, Gabi Nakibly &lt;<a=
 rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:gnakibly@yahoo.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:gnakibly@yahoo.com" class=3D"" style=3D"">gnak=
ibly@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div style=3D"background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);font-family:HelveticaNeue=
, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size=
:10pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"">Hi,</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">I think this document is a significant step forw=
ard for the security of OSPF. I do have one comment, though.&nbsp;<span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10pt" class=3D"">It is concerned with the case in which the=
 same key is configured on different links. If
 such a situation occurs then an attacker might be able to record an OSPF m=
essage on one link and replay it on another. This is particularly relevant =
for cases where one router uses the same source address in multiple links (=
e.g. a virtual link and a physical
 link). So the attacker can record a packet sent by that router on one of t=
he links and replay it over the other as if it was sent by the router itsel=
f. This may allow an attacker to cause an adjacency to be brought down.</sp=
an></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">Note that in section 2 we are recommending one s=
equence number space for the OSPF router as opposed to one per interface. H=
ence, this would have to be a replayed packet received from another router =
with the same source address since the
 OSPF Router ID in the OSPF header would be protected by the authentication=
 hash. I would consider this to be a misconfiguration.&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div style=3D"background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);font-family:HelveticaNeue=
, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size=
:10pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">Moreover, a recorded Hello message may be replay=
ed on arbitrary links (even those that do not share a router using the same=
 source address). If I am not mistaken, RFC2328 does not mandate to discard=
 an Hello message having a source address
 that is not part of the subnet of the interface on which the message was r=
eceived.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">RFC 2328 does mandate source subnet checking on =
multi-access networks but not P2P networks. On P2P networks, this could be =
a problem but would require the attacker to have an active tap on both the =
P2P interface and another interface
 using the same key. &nbsp;Again, this would have to be a replayed packet r=
eceived from another router due to the OSPF router=92s use a single sequenc=
e number space. There really isn=92t a good solution for this problem on P2=
P links since the routers don=92t share any
 common identifier for the P2P link. They have an ifIndex but this is a loc=
ally unique interface identifier. We can document the problem and recommend=
 use of different keys if the possibility of active taps on P2P interfaces =
exists.&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">Thanks,</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">Acee</div>
<div class=3D"" id=3D"yiv5585511355yqtfd10693" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none=
" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div style=3D"background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);font-family:HelveticaNeue=
, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size=
:10pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">Therefore, the recipient of the replayed message=
 would allocate a new neighbor entry, thus giving rise to a DoS attack.</di=
v>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"">I know that the OSPF standard allows to configur=
e different keys for different links, nonetheless in most of the OSPF deplo=
yments I have seen the same key is configured for all links in the AS (or a=
rea). I do not know if this is representative
 of OSPF deployments worldwide, but it might be prudent to analyse the secu=
rity of the proposed extensions in the context of such cases as well.</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:10pt" class=3D"">Gabi</=
span><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"" style=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helveti=
ca, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helveti=
ca, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div class=3D"" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"">
<hr class=3D"" size=3D"1" style=3D"">
<font class=3D"" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" style=3D""><b class=3D"" style=
=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Abhay Ro=
y &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:akr@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:akr@cisco.com" class=3D"" style=3D"">akr@ci=
sco.com</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<b class=3D"" style=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</s=
pan></b> &quot;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:ospf@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org" class=3D"" style=3D=
"">ospf@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org" c=
lass=3D"" style=3D"">ospf@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<b class=3D"" style=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:<=
/span></b> Friday, April 11, 2014 9:30 AM<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" styl=
e=3D"">
<b class=3D"" style=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subjec=
t:</span></b> [OSPF] Working Group last Call on &quot;Security Extension fo=
r OSPFv2 when using Manual Key Management&quot; - draft-ietf-ospf-security-=
extension-manual-keying-07<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</font></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
All,<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
We are starting a WG LC on the subject document. Document has been <br clea=
r=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
stable for a while, and Manav was kind enough to present it one last <br cl=
ear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
time in IETF89 (London). LC will end at 9am PST on 25th April 2014.<br clea=
r=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
Please review the document and send any final comments prior to the LC <br =
clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
deadline.<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
Regards,<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
-Abhay<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"=
" style=3D"">
OSPF mailing list<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"" ymailto=3D"mailto:OSPF@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:OSPF@ietf.org" style=3D"">OSPF@ietf.or=
g</a><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf" style=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/ospf</a><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=3D"" style=3D""></div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"=
" style=3D"">
OSPF mailing list<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:OSPF@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:OSPF@ietf.org" class=3D"" style=3D"">OSPF@ietf.o=
rg</a><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/ospf</a><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"" id=3D"yiv5585511355yqtfd79693" style=3D""><br clear=3D"none=
" class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"" id=3D"yiv5585511355yqtfd45960" style=3D""></div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"" style=3D"">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_BF8C16798254493F9246E9FC128B3DA2ericssoncom_--


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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>
Thread-Topic: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
Thread-Index: Ac9lZd4zbhHa3+wMTomT3AazRGvGkgCB6UTQ
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 08:29:04 +0000
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>
Thread-Topic: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
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Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 13:42:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>
Thread-Topic: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
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Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 02:31:31 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>
Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
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From nobody Mon May  5 08:56:04 2014
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Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 10:54:49 -0500
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Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "sunset4@ietf.org" <sunset4@ietf.org>, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" <lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] [sunset4] [Isis-wg]  IPv6 router IDs
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On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
> Xiaohu =E2=80=93 what are precisely the situations that you think you n=
eed this
> IPv6 address?=20
> Acee

if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast addresses.
you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance that those
actually map. the first time you have a router id of
11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer.

I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to be more
compelling then it was in ip addresses.

> From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com <mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com>>
> Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM
> To: "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com
> <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
> Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
> "isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>" <isis-wg@ietf.org
> <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>>, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com
> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com
> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>>, "sunset4@ietf.org
> <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>" <sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>=
,
> "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>"
> <lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>=20
>     Hi Wes,
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     Thanks for pointing out these two drafts.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     The motivation for these two drafts
>     (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and
>     http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very=

>     simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for=

>     advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas,
>     however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result,=

>     it=E2=80=99s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations=
 between
>     IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For
>     example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN
>     session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6
>     addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B vi=
a
>     a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the
>     ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before
>     <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00)%20before>
>     inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability
>     TLV originated by router B doesn=E2=80=99t carried an IPv6 address =
of its
>     own. As a result, it=E2=80=99s hard for router A to know the ELC of=
 router B.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     Best regards,
>=20
>     Xiaohu
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*George, Wes [mailto:wesley.george@twc=
able.com]
>     *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:*2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=882=E6=97=
=A51:51
>     *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*Xuxiaohu
>     *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:*sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>;
>     fanpeng@chinamobile.com <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>;
>     lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>
>     *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the
>     authors=E2=80=99s email addresses directly.=20
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     *From: *<George>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com
>     <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
>     *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM
>     *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>     <draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>     "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>     <draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>
>     *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>     <draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>     "sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>" <sunset4@ietf.org
>     <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>
>     *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in ISI=
S
>     and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This=

>     has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are
>     copied. I=E2=80=99ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I g=
ave them -=20
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     It is important to distinguish between places where a unique
>     identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address assigned
>     to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places
>     where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the
>     protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action on=
).
>=20
>     In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique
>     across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or i=
s
>     the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to somethin=
g
>     on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value=

>     isn=E2=80=99t relevant has been used to make recommendations that a=
re easier
>     for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP address)=

>     but that value as a human-readable set of info does not necessarily=

>     justify  changes to the protocol to support that convention as we
>     move to IPv6.=20
>=20
>     I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must
>     merely be unique, but it doesn=E2=80=99t have to be an IP address a=
t all.
>     Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry
>     IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a network.
>     If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be documented
>     in the draft.=20
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique
>     identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been
>     used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft
>     identifying this problem and discussing several solutions, includin=
g
>     simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically generating a
>     random ID, etc.  the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4,
>     either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another
>     standalone draft.=20
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread
>     here: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=3Da&email_list=3D=
idr&q=3D%22%5Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=3D1&gbt=3D1
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     And in the IDR meeting, minutes:
>=20
>     http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see page=
 11)
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     I=E2=80=99d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together =
on this.
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     Thanks,
>=20
>      =20
>=20
>     Wes George
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     Anything below this line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s mai=
l server,
>     I have no control over it.
>=20
>     -----------
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     -------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>=20
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e
>     proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or
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>     intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it=

>     is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail,=

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>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
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> sunset4@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4
>=20



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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: joel jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>, Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>
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From: Acee Lindem <acee@lindem.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBbSXNpcy13Z10gW3N1bnNldDRdICAgSVB2NiBy?= =?utf-8?q?outer_IDs?=
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On May 5, 2014, at 9:48 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

>=20
>=20
>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Isis-wg =
[mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 joel jaeggli
>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5=
 23:55
>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Acee Lindem; Xuxiaohu; George, Wes
>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: ospf@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; =
isis-wg@ietf.org;
>> sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>=20
>> On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
>>> Xiaohu =E2=80=93 what are precisely the situations that you think =
you need
>>> this
>>> IPv6 address?
>>> Acee
>>=20
>> if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast =
addresses.
>> you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance that =
those actually
>> map. the first time you have a router id of
>> 11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer.
>=20
> The IPv6 router ID sub-TLV of the ISIS router capability TLV must =
carry a "routable" IPv6 address. If the name of the sub-TLV seems =
confusing, it can be changed to IPv6 address sub-TLV.

Independent of what you call it, you didn=E2=80=99t answer my question. =
Other than TE, what the use cases where it is needed?=20

Acee=20


>=20
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>=20
>> I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to be =
more
>> compelling then it was in ip addresses.
>>=20
>>> From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com <mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com>>
>>> Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM
>>> To: "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com
>>> <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
>>> Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
>>> "isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>" <isis-wg@ietf.org
>>> <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>>, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com
>>> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com
>>> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>>, "sunset4@ietf.org
>>> <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>" <sunset4@ietf.org
>>> <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>> <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>"
>>> <lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>=20
>>>    Hi Wes,
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    Thanks for pointing out these two drafts.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    The motivation for these two drafts
>>>    (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and
>>>    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is =
very
>>>    simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used =
for
>>>    advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas,
>>>    however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a =
result,
>>>    it=E2=80=99s hard for routers in one area to establish =
correlations between
>>>    IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For
>>>    example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a =
L3VPN
>>>    session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6
>>>    addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B =
via
>>>    a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the
>>>    ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before
>>>    <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00)%20before>
>>>    inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability
>>>    TLV originated by router B doesn=E2=80=99t carried an IPv6 =
address of its
>>>    own. As a result, it=E2=80=99s hard for router A to know the ELC =
of router B.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    Best regards,
>>>=20
>>>    Xiaohu
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*George, Wes =
[mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com]
>>>    *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:*2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=882=E6=97=
=A51:51
>>>    *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*Xuxiaohu
>>>    *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:*sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>;
>>>    fanpeng@chinamobile.com <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>;
>>>    lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>
>>>    *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the
>>>    authors=E2=80=99s email addresses directly.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    *From: *<George>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com
>>>    <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
>>>    *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM
>>>    *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>    <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>    <draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>    <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>>>    "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>    <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>    <draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>    <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>
>>>    *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>    <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>    <draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>    <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>>>    "sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>" <sunset4@ietf.org
>>>    <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>
>>>    *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in =
ISIS
>>>    and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. =
This
>>>    has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are
>>>    copied. I=E2=80=99ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I =
gave
>>> them -
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    It is important to distinguish between places where a unique
>>>    identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address =
assigned
>>>    to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places
>>>    where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the
>>>    protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action =
on).
>>>=20
>>>    In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique
>>>    across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or =
is
>>>    the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to =
something
>>>    on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the =
value
>>>    isn=E2=80=99t relevant has been used to make recommendations that =
are easier
>>>    for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP =
address)
>>>    but that value as a human-readable set of info does not =
necessarily
>>>    justify  changes to the protocol to support that convention as we
>>>    move to IPv6.
>>>=20
>>>    I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must
>>>    merely be unique, but it doesn=E2=80=99t have to be an IP address =
at all.
>>>    Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry
>>>    IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a =
network.
>>>    If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be =
documented
>>>    in the draft.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique
>>>    identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been
>>>    used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft
>>>    identifying this problem and discussing several solutions, =
including
>>>    simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically generating =
a
>>>    random ID, etc.  the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4,
>>>    either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another
>>>    standalone draft.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread
>>>    here:
>>> =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=3Da&email_list=3Didr&q=3D%22=
%5
>>> Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=3D1&gbt=3D1
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    And in the IDR meeting, minutes:
>>>=20
>>>    http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see
>>> page 11)
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    I=E2=80=99d encourage the authors of these drafts to work =
together on this.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    Thanks,
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    Wes George
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>    Anything below this line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s =
mail server,
>>>    I have no control over it.
>>>=20
>>>    -----------
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>=20
>>>    This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner =
Cable
>>>    proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or
>>>    subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail =
is
>>>    intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which =
it
>>>    is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this =
E-mail,
>>>    you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
>>>    copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and
>>>    attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be
>>>    unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please =
notify
>>>    the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and =
any
>>>    copy of this E-mail and any printout.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sunset4 mailing list
>>> sunset4@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf


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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "aretana@cisco.com" <aretana@cisco.com>, "dean.cheng@huawei.com" <dean.cheng@huawei.com>, "akatlas@gmail.com" <akatlas@gmail.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "akr@cisco.com" <akr@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6969 (3975)
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Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 17:58:54 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6969 (3975)
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Alia, Adrian,=20
This editorial errata is correct.
Acee=20

-----Original Message-----
From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Date: Sunday, April 27, 2014 12:33 PM
To: "aretana@cisco.com" <aretana@cisco.com>, "dean.cheng@huawei.com"
<dean.cheng@huawei.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, Adrian Farrel
<adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>, Ericsson
<acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
Cc: "Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk" <Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk>, OSPF - OSPF
WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org"
<rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6969 (3975)

>The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6969,
>"OSPFv3 Instance ID Registry Update".
>
>--------------------------------------
>You may review the report below and at:
>http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6969&eid=3D3975
>
>--------------------------------------
>Type: Editorial
>Reported by: Peter Pal=FAch <Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk>
>
>Section: 1
>
>Original Text
>-------------
>   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
>   | Value   | Description                                 | Reference |
>   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
>   | 0       | IPv6 unicast AF                             | [RFC5838] |
>   | 1 - 31  | Base IPv6 Unicast AF dependent on local     | [RFC5838] |
>   |         | policy                                      |           |
>   | 32      | Base IPv6 Multicast                         | [RFC5838] |
>   | 33-63   | IPv6 Multicast AFs dependent on local       | [RFC5838] |
>   |         | policy                                      |           |
>   | 64      | Base IPv4 Unicast AF                        | [RFC5838] |
>   | 65-95   | IPv4 Unicast AFs dependent on local policy  | [RFC5838] |
>   | 96      | Base IPv4 Multicast                         | [RFC5838] |
>   | 97-127  | IPv4 Multicast AFs dependent on local       | [RFC5838] |
>   |         | policy                                      |           |
>   | 128-255 | Unassigned                                  | [RFC5838] |
>   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
>
>
>Corrected Text
>--------------
>   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
>   | Value   | Description                                 | Reference |
>   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
>   | 0       | Base IPv6 Unicast AF                        | [RFC5838] |
>   | 1 - 31  | IPv6 Unicast AFs dependent on local policy  | [RFC5838] |
>   | 32      | Base IPv6 Multicast AF                      | [RFC5838] |
>   | 33-63   | IPv6 Multicast AFs dependent on local       | [RFC5838] |
>   |         | policy                                      |           |
>   | 64      | Base IPv4 Unicast AF                        | [RFC5838] |
>   | 65-95   | IPv4 Unicast AFs dependent on local policy  | [RFC5838] |
>   | 96      | Base IPv4 Multicast                         | [RFC5838] |
>   | 97-127  | IPv4 Multicast AFs dependent on local       | [RFC5838] |
>   |         | policy                                      |           |
>   | 128-255 | Unassigned                                  | [RFC5838] |
>   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
>
>
>Notes
>-----
>The term "Base" applies to Instance ID 0, not to IDs 1-31 which are
>additional IPv6 unicast AFs. Additionally, to keep the formatting
>consistent, the first letter in terms "Unicast" and "Multicast" is
>capitalized in each term instance. Also, in the description of values
>1-31, "AF" is replaced with "AFs".
>
>Instructions:
>-------------
>This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
>--------------------------------------
>RFC6969 (draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-iid-registry-update-04)
>--------------------------------------
>Title               : OSPFv3 Instance ID Registry Update
>Publication Date    : July 2013
>Author(s)           : A. Retana, D. Cheng
>Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
>Area                : Routing
>Stream              : IETF
>Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "aretana@cisco.com" <aretana@cisco.com>, "dean.cheng@huawei.com" <dean.cheng@huawei.com>, "akatlas@gmail.com" <akatlas@gmail.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "akr@cisco.com" <akr@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6969 (3976)
Thread-Index: AQHPYlD0NTQMcHPQuE+1KkwiDNzlL5szsv6A
Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 17:59:23 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6969 (3976)
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Adrian, Alia,
This editorial errata is correct.
Acee

-----Original Message-----
From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Date: Sunday, April 27, 2014 12:43 PM
To: "aretana@cisco.com" <aretana@cisco.com>, "dean.cheng@huawei.com"
<dean.cheng@huawei.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, Adrian Farrel
<adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>, Ericsson
<acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
Cc: "Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk" <Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk>, OSPF - OSPF
WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org"
<rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6969 (3976)

>The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6969,
>"OSPFv3 Instance ID Registry Update".
>
>--------------------------------------
>You may review the report below and at:
>http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6969&eid=3D3976
>
>--------------------------------------
>Type: Editorial
>Reported by: Peter Pal=FAch <Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk>
>
>Section: 2
>
>Original Text
>-------------
>   +--------------------------+---------------+-----------------------+
>   | Value                    | Description   | Reference             |
>   +--------------------------+---------------+-----------------------+
>   | 128-191                  | Unassigned    | 192-255               |
>   | Reserved for Private Use | this document | Private Use [RFC5226] |
>   +--------------------------+---------------+-----------------------+
>
>
>Corrected Text
>--------------
>   +-------------+--------------------------+-------------------------+
>   | Value       | Description              | Reference               |
>   +-------------+--------------------------+-------------------------+
>   | 128-191     | Unassigned               |                         |
>   | 192-255     | Reserved for Private Use | This Document [RFC6969] |
>   +-------------+--------------------------+-------------------------+
>
>
>Notes
>-----
>The table was obviously misformatted.
>
>Instructions:
>-------------
>This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
>--------------------------------------
>RFC6969 (draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-iid-registry-update-04)
>--------------------------------------
>Title               : OSPFv3 Instance ID Registry Update
>Publication Date    : July 2013
>Author(s)           : A. Retana, D. Cheng
>Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
>Area                : Routing
>Stream              : IETF
>Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "yiya@cisco.com" <yiya@cisco.com>, "aretana@cisco.com" <aretana@cisco.com>, "akr@cisco.com" <akr@cisco.com>, "akatlas@gmail.com" <akatlas@gmail.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6860 (3977)
Thread-Index: AQHPYvS6xp+cnAFM80SQ3hPh2ogIOJszsrqA
Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 18:03:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6860 (3977)
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Adrian, Alia,
This technical errata is correct.
Acee=20

-----Original Message-----
From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Date: Monday, April 28, 2014 8:15 AM
To: Yi Yang <yiya@cisco.com>, "aretana@cisco.com" <aretana@cisco.com>,
Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, Adrian Farrel
<adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>, Ericsson
<acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
Cc: "Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk" <Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk>, OSPF - OSPF
WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org"
<rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6860 (3977)

>The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6860,
>"Hiding Transit-Only Networks in OSPF".
>
>--------------------------------------
>You may review the report below and at:
>http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6860&eid=3D3977
>
>--------------------------------------
>Type: Technical
>Reported by: Peter Paluch <Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk>
>
>Section: 3
>
>Original Text
>-------------
>   To hide a transit-only network in [OSPFv3], the IPv6 address prefixes
>   are omitted from the router-LSA.  Consequently, when a Designated
>   Router builds an intra-area-prefix-LSA referencing a network-LSA,
>   these IPv6 address prefixes will be omitted.
>
>Corrected Text
>--------------
>   To hide a transit-only network in [OSPFv3], the associated IPv6
>   address prefixes MUST be omitted from the link-LSA. Consequently,
>   when a Designated Router builds an intra-area-prefix-LSA referencing
>   a network-LSA, these IPv6 address prefixes will be omitted.
>
>
>Notes
>-----
>The change essentially reverts the paragraph back to the formulation from
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-05#section-3 .
>Most importantly, the term "router-LSA" is replaced with "link-LSA", as
>there are already no prefixes carried in OSFPv3 router-LSA whatsoever,
>and the removal of transit-network prefixes influences link-LSAs and
>intra-area-prefix-LSAs. Also, the change reintroduces the keyword "MUST"
>that underlines the behavior that is crucial to the proper implementation
>of the feature.
>
>Instructions:
>-------------
>This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
>--------------------------------------
>RFC6860 (draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-07)
>--------------------------------------
>Title               : Hiding Transit-Only Networks in OSPF
>Publication Date    : January 2013
>Author(s)           : Y. Yang, A. Retana, A. Roy
>Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
>Area                : Routing
>Stream              : IETF
>Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "jmoy@casc.com" <jmoy@casc.com>, "akatlas@gmail.com" <akatlas@gmail.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "akr@cisco.com" <akr@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
Thread-Index: AQHPX+K+sEUMQ+NpHkOCbQLGrg4woZszvKOA
Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 18:16:32 +0000
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Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
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Hi Mike,=20

Since the current step 7 deals with the SAME instance of the LSA, I don't
see how swapping steps 6 and 7 solves the problem. Perhaps, I'm missing
some other edit?=20

Thanks,
Acee=20

-----Original Message-----
From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Date: Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:28 AM
To: "jmoy@casc.com" <jmoy@casc.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>,
Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>, Ericsson
<acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
Cc: Mike Dubrovskiy <mdubrovs@cisco.com>, OSPF - OSPF WG List
<ospf@ietf.org>, "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)

>The following errata report has been submitted for RFC2328,
>"OSPF Version 2".
>
>--------------------------------------
>You may review the report below and at:
>http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D2328&eid=3D3974
>
>--------------------------------------
>Type: Technical
>Reported by: Mike Dubrovsky <mdubrovs@cisco.com>
>
>Section: 13
>
>Original Text
>-------------
>    (6) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
>        neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
>        Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
>        Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
>        the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
>        packet.
>
>    (7) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
>        copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
>        should be performed:
>
>        (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
>            for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
>            an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
>            received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
>            the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
>            "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
>            for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).
>
>        (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
>            Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
>            interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.
>
>
>Corrected Text
>--------------
>    (6) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
>        copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
>        should be performed:
>
>        (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
>            for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
>            an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
>            received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
>            the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
>            "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
>            for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).
>
>        (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
>            Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
>            interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.
>
>    (7) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
>        neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
>        Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
>        Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
>        the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
>        packet.
>
>
>Notes
>-----
>The problem arises when the routing domain has two instances of LSA
>with the same sequence number and the same checksum,
>but with an age difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.
>
>The above could take place in multiple scenarios. Here are two examples:
>
>1) There is a demand circuit somewhere in the routing domain
>2) The router lost its ASBR status and therefore flushed the
>self-originated Type 5 LSAs
>   but later on gained the ASBR status back and re-originated Type 5.
>   If the network was partitioned, each partition can have two instances
>of LSA
>   with an age difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.
>  =20
>The two instances of LSA can temporarily prevent the adjacency formation.
>  =20
>Consider the example below:
>
>
>Topology
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
>RT1 ----- RT2
>
>Initial state:
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>The physical link between RT1 and R2 just came up
>The routers are about to form ospf adjacency.
>
>Initial link-state databases:
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>R1 ospf database has          LSA 10.0.0.1 age 910 seq # 0x80000001
>R2 ospf database has the same LSA 10.0.0.1 age   9 seq # 0x80000001
>
>RT1 Event Sequence:
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>RT1 is starting to form adjacency with RT2.
>
>1) During the Database Exchange, RT2's LSA instance is more recent
>because of more than 900 (MaxAgeDiff) seconds age difference (section
>13.1 of RFC 2328).
>2) So RT1 requests the LSA
>3) RT2 sends the LSA after incrementing the age by 1 (InfTransDelay).
>4) When the LSA instance arrives to RT1, it is identical (the difference
>is exactly 900 seconds now).
>
>So RT1 aborts Loading according to step (6) of section 13.
>
>
>Solution:
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>Swap steps (6) and (7) of section 13.
>
>Instructions:
>-------------
>This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
>--------------------------------------
>RFC2328 (no draft string recorded)
>--------------------------------------
>Title               : OSPF Version 2
>Publication Date    : April 1998
>Author(s)           : J. Moy
>Category            : INTERNET STANDARD
>Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
>Area                : Routing
>Stream              : IETF
>Verifying Party     : IESG


From nobody Tue May  6 12:47:33 2014
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From: "Mike Dubrovskiy (mdubrovs)" <mdubrovs@cisco.com>
To: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "jmoy@casc.com" <jmoy@casc.com>, "akatlas@gmail.com" <akatlas@gmail.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Abhay Roy (akr)" <akr@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
Thread-Index: AQHPX+K7QHYp6Wq1f0+gq20K8UVrfJs0QqkA///AqWA=
Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 19:47:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
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Hi Acee,

Thank you for looking into it. Please find my explanation below:

Before the errata:

Step 5 - received LSA is more recent
Step 6 - received LSA is on Link state request list
Step 7 - received LSA is the same instance
Step 8 - received LSA is older


With the errata:

Step 5 - received LSA is more recent
Step 6- received LSA is the same instance
Step 7 - received LSA is on Link state request list=20
Step 8 - received LSA is older

Mike

P.S. The issue is quite easily reproducible if implementation allows settin=
g the value of the InfTransDelay.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 11:17 AM
> To: RFC Errata System; jmoy@casc.com; akatlas@gmail.com;
> adrian@olddog.co.uk; Abhay Roy (akr)
> Cc: Mike Dubrovskiy (mdubrovs); ospf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
>=20
> Hi Mike,
>=20
> Since the current step 7 deals with the SAME instance of the LSA, I don't=
 see
> how swapping steps 6 and 7 solves the problem. Perhaps, I'm missing some
> other edit?
>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
> Date: Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:28 AM
> To: "jmoy@casc.com" <jmoy@casc.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>,
> Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>, Ericsson
> <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
> Cc: Mike Dubrovskiy <mdubrovs@cisco.com>, OSPF - OSPF WG List
> <ospf@ietf.org>, "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
> Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
>=20
> >The following errata report has been submitted for RFC2328, "OSPF
> >Version 2".
> >
> >--------------------------------------
> >You may review the report below and at:
> >http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D2328&eid=3D3974
> >
> >--------------------------------------
> >Type: Technical
> >Reported by: Mike Dubrovsky <mdubrovs@cisco.com>
> >
> >Section: 13
> >
> >Original Text
> >-------------
> >    (6) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
> >        neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
> >        Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
> >        Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
> >        the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
> >        packet.
> >
> >    (7) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
> >        copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
> >        should be performed:
> >
> >        (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
> >            for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
> >            an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
> >            received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
> >            the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
> >            "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
> >            for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).
> >
> >        (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
> >            Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
> >            interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.
> >
> >
> >Corrected Text
> >--------------
> >    (6) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
> >        copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
> >        should be performed:
> >
> >        (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
> >            for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
> >            an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
> >            received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
> >            the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
> >            "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
> >            for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).
> >
> >        (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
> >            Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
> >            interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.
> >
> >    (7) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
> >        neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
> >        Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
> >        Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
> >        the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
> >        packet.
> >
> >
> >Notes
> >-----
> >The problem arises when the routing domain has two instances of LSA
> >with the same sequence number and the same checksum, but with an age
> >difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.
> >
> >The above could take place in multiple scenarios. Here are two examples:
> >
> >1) There is a demand circuit somewhere in the routing domain
> >2) The router lost its ASBR status and therefore flushed the
> >self-originated Type 5 LSAs
> >   but later on gained the ASBR status back and re-originated Type 5.
> >   If the network was partitioned, each partition can have two
> >instances of LSA
> >   with an age difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.
> >
> >The two instances of LSA can temporarily prevent the adjacency formation=
.
> >
> >Consider the example below:
> >
> >
> >Topology
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >
> >
> >RT1 ----- RT2
> >
> >Initial state:
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >The physical link between RT1 and R2 just came up The routers are about
> >to form ospf adjacency.
> >
> >Initial link-state databases:
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >R1 ospf database has          LSA 10.0.0.1 age 910 seq # 0x80000001
> >R2 ospf database has the same LSA 10.0.0.1 age   9 seq # 0x80000001
> >
> >RT1 Event Sequence:
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >
> >RT1 is starting to form adjacency with RT2.
> >
> >1) During the Database Exchange, RT2's LSA instance is more recent
> >because of more than 900 (MaxAgeDiff) seconds age difference (section
> >13.1 of RFC 2328).
> >2) So RT1 requests the LSA
> >3) RT2 sends the LSA after incrementing the age by 1 (InfTransDelay).
> >4) When the LSA instance arrives to RT1, it is identical (the
> >difference is exactly 900 seconds now).
> >
> >So RT1 aborts Loading according to step (6) of section 13.
> >
> >
> >Solution:
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >
> >Swap steps (6) and (7) of section 13.
> >
> >Instructions:
> >-------------
> >This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use
> >"Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When
> >a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to change
> >the status and edit the report, if necessary.
> >
> >--------------------------------------
> >RFC2328 (no draft string recorded)
> >--------------------------------------
> >Title               : OSPF Version 2
> >Publication Date    : April 1998
> >Author(s)           : J. Moy
> >Category            : INTERNET STANDARD
> >Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
> >Area                : Routing
> >Stream              : IETF
> >Verifying Party     : IESG


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Subject: [OSPF] [Errata Verified] RFC6969 (3975)
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The following errata report has been verified for RFC6969,
"OSPFv3 Instance ID Registry Update". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6969&eid=3975

--------------------------------------
Status: Verified
Type: Editorial

Reported by: Peter Pal?ch <Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk>
Date Reported: 2014-04-27
Verified by: Alia Atlas (IESG)

Section: 1

Original Text
-------------
   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
   | Value   | Description                                 | Reference |
   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
   | 0       | IPv6 unicast AF                             | [RFC5838] |
   | 1 - 31  | Base IPv6 Unicast AF dependent on local     | [RFC5838] |
   |         | policy                                      |           |
   | 32      | Base IPv6 Multicast                         | [RFC5838] |
   | 33-63   | IPv6 Multicast AFs dependent on local       | [RFC5838] |
   |         | policy                                      |           |
   | 64      | Base IPv4 Unicast AF                        | [RFC5838] |
   | 65-95   | IPv4 Unicast AFs dependent on local policy  | [RFC5838] |
   | 96      | Base IPv4 Multicast                         | [RFC5838] |
   | 97-127  | IPv4 Multicast AFs dependent on local       | [RFC5838] |
   |         | policy                                      |           |
   | 128-255 | Unassigned                                  | [RFC5838] |
   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+


Corrected Text
--------------
   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
   | Value   | Description                                 | Reference |
   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+
   | 0       | Base IPv6 Unicast AF                        | [RFC5838] |
   | 1 - 31  | IPv6 Unicast AFs dependent on local policy  | [RFC5838] |
   | 32      | Base IPv6 Multicast AF                      | [RFC5838] |
   | 33-63   | IPv6 Multicast AFs dependent on local       | [RFC5838] |
   |         | policy                                      |           |
   | 64      | Base IPv4 Unicast AF                        | [RFC5838] |
   | 65-95   | IPv4 Unicast AFs dependent on local policy  | [RFC5838] |
   | 96      | Base IPv4 Multicast                         | [RFC5838] |
   | 97-127  | IPv4 Multicast AFs dependent on local       | [RFC5838] |
   |         | policy                                      |           |
   | 128-255 | Unassigned                                  | [RFC5838] |
   +---------+---------------------------------------------+-----------+


Notes
-----
The term "Base" applies to Instance ID 0, not to IDs 1-31 which are additional IPv6 unicast AFs. Additionally, to keep the formatting consistent, the first letter in terms "Unicast" and "Multicast" is capitalized in each term instance. Also, in the description of values 1-31, "AF" is replaced with "AFs".

--------------------------------------
RFC6969 (draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-iid-registry-update-04)
--------------------------------------
Title               : OSPFv3 Instance ID Registry Update
Publication Date    : July 2013
Author(s)           : A. Retana, D. Cheng
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Subject: [OSPF] [Errata Verified] RFC6969 (3976)
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The following errata report has been verified for RFC6969,
"OSPFv3 Instance ID Registry Update". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6969&eid=3976

--------------------------------------
Status: Verified
Type: Editorial

Reported by: Peter Pal?ch <Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk>
Date Reported: 2014-04-27
Verified by: Alia Atlas (IESG)

Section: 2

Original Text
-------------
   +--------------------------+---------------+-----------------------+
   | Value                    | Description   | Reference             |
   +--------------------------+---------------+-----------------------+
   | 128-191                  | Unassigned    | 192-255               |
   | Reserved for Private Use | this document | Private Use [RFC5226] |
   +--------------------------+---------------+-----------------------+


Corrected Text
--------------
   +-------------+--------------------------+-------------------------+
   | Value       | Description              | Reference               |
   +-------------+--------------------------+-------------------------+
   | 128-191     | Unassigned               |                         |
   | 192-255     | Reserved for Private Use | This Document [RFC6969] |
   +-------------+--------------------------+-------------------------+


Notes
-----
The table was obviously misformatted.

--------------------------------------
RFC6969 (draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-iid-registry-update-04)
--------------------------------------
Title               : OSPFv3 Instance ID Registry Update
Publication Date    : July 2013
Author(s)           : A. Retana, D. Cheng
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: Mike Dubrovskiy <mdubrovs@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
Thread-Index: AQHPX+K+sEUMQ+NpHkOCbQLGrg4woZszvKOAgACOkwCAAUNfAA==
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 15:04:32 +0000
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Cc: "jmoy@casc.com" <jmoy@casc.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
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Hi Mike,=20
The intent of your change was evident from the errata ;^)  My question is h=
ow it solves the problem when the two instance are not the same instance si=
nce they differ by more than MaxAgeDiff as described in the errata (see exc=
erpted text below):=20

>>> Notes
>>> -----
>>> The problem arises when the routing domain has two instances of LSA
>>> with the same sequence number and the same checksum, but with an age
>>> difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.


Acee=20

On May 6, 2014, at 3:47 PM, Mike Dubrovskiy (mdubrovs) <mdubrovs@cisco.com>=
 wrote:

> Hi Acee,
>=20
> Thank you for looking into it. Please find my explanation below:
>=20
> Before the errata:
>=20
> Step 5 - received LSA is more recent
> Step 6 - received LSA is on Link state request list
> Step 7 - received LSA is the same instance
> Step 8 - received LSA is older
>=20
>=20
> With the errata:
>=20
> Step 5 - received LSA is more recent
> Step 6- received LSA is the same instance
> Step 7 - received LSA is on Link state request list=20
> Step 8 - received LSA is older
>=20
> Mike
>=20
> P.S. The issue is quite easily reproducible if implementation allows sett=
ing the value of the InfTransDelay.
>=20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 11:17 AM
>> To: RFC Errata System; jmoy@casc.com; akatlas@gmail.com;
>> adrian@olddog.co.uk; Abhay Roy (akr)
>> Cc: Mike Dubrovskiy (mdubrovs); ospf@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
>>=20
>> Hi Mike,
>>=20
>> Since the current step 7 deals with the SAME instance of the LSA, I don'=
t see
>> how swapping steps 6 and 7 solves the problem. Perhaps, I'm missing some
>> other edit?
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
>> Date: Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:28 AM
>> To: "jmoy@casc.com" <jmoy@casc.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>,
>> Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>, Ericsson
>> <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
>> Cc: Mike Dubrovskiy <mdubrovs@cisco.com>, OSPF - OSPF WG List
>> <ospf@ietf.org>, "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
>> Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
>>=20
>>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC2328, "OSPF
>>> Version 2".
>>>=20
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> You may review the report below and at:
>>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D2328&eid=3D3974
>>>=20
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Type: Technical
>>> Reported by: Mike Dubrovsky <mdubrovs@cisco.com>
>>>=20
>>> Section: 13
>>>=20
>>> Original Text
>>> -------------
>>>   (6) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
>>>       neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
>>>       Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
>>>       Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
>>>       the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
>>>       packet.
>>>=20
>>>   (7) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
>>>       copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
>>>       should be performed:
>>>=20
>>>       (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
>>>           for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
>>>           an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
>>>           received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
>>>           the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
>>>           "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
>>>           for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).
>>>=20
>>>       (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
>>>           Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
>>>           interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Corrected Text
>>> --------------
>>>   (6) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
>>>       copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
>>>       should be performed:
>>>=20
>>>       (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
>>>           for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
>>>           an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
>>>           received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
>>>           the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
>>>           "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
>>>           for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).
>>>=20
>>>       (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
>>>           Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
>>>           interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.
>>>=20
>>>   (7) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
>>>       neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
>>>       Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
>>>       Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
>>>       the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
>>>       packet.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Notes
>>> -----
>>> The problem arises when the routing domain has two instances of LSA
>>> with the same sequence number and the same checksum, but with an age
>>> difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.
>>>=20
>>> The above could take place in multiple scenarios. Here are two examples=
:
>>>=20
>>> 1) There is a demand circuit somewhere in the routing domain
>>> 2) The router lost its ASBR status and therefore flushed the
>>> self-originated Type 5 LSAs
>>>  but later on gained the ASBR status back and re-originated Type 5.
>>>  If the network was partitioned, each partition can have two
>>> instances of LSA
>>>  with an age difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.
>>>=20
>>> The two instances of LSA can temporarily prevent the adjacency formatio=
n.
>>>=20
>>> Consider the example below:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Topology
>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> RT1 ----- RT2
>>>=20
>>> Initial state:
>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> The physical link between RT1 and R2 just came up The routers are about
>>> to form ospf adjacency.
>>>=20
>>> Initial link-state databases:
>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> R1 ospf database has          LSA 10.0.0.1 age 910 seq # 0x80000001
>>> R2 ospf database has the same LSA 10.0.0.1 age   9 seq # 0x80000001
>>>=20
>>> RT1 Event Sequence:
>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>=20
>>> RT1 is starting to form adjacency with RT2.
>>>=20
>>> 1) During the Database Exchange, RT2's LSA instance is more recent
>>> because of more than 900 (MaxAgeDiff) seconds age difference (section
>>> 13.1 of RFC 2328).
>>> 2) So RT1 requests the LSA
>>> 3) RT2 sends the LSA after incrementing the age by 1 (InfTransDelay).
>>> 4) When the LSA instance arrives to RT1, it is identical (the
>>> difference is exactly 900 seconds now).
>>>=20
>>> So RT1 aborts Loading according to step (6) of section 13.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Solution:
>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>=20
>>> Swap steps (6) and (7) of section 13.
>>>=20
>>> Instructions:
>>> -------------
>>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use
>>> "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When
>>> a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to change
>>> the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>>=20
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> RFC2328 (no draft string recorded)
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Title               : OSPF Version 2
>>> Publication Date    : April 1998
>>> Author(s)           : J. Moy
>>> Category            : INTERNET STANDARD
>>> Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
>>> Area                : Routing
>>> Stream              : IETF
>>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>=20


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Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 16:49:21 +0200
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiBbSXNpcy13Z10gW3N1bnNldDRd?= =?utf-8?q?___IPv6_router_IDs?=
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    Hello Xiaohu,
    this whole thread started from George Wes stating that even in pure 
IPv4 world Router ID in many protocols is NOT an IPv4 address. For 
convenience it frequently is but on the binary scale "ID guaranteed to 
be routable IPv4 address"/"ID is just a number" - the Router ID is NOT 
an IPv4 address.

    So, before you convince people that IPv6 Rtr ID is needed you must 
start from discussing when and why Router ID is being used as IPv4 
address in pure IPv4 world. I believe this in other words is what Acee 
asking you.

Anton


On 05/07/2014 03:10 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote:
> Hi Acee,
>
> The motivation for these two drafts (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas, however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result, it’s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations between IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability TLV originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its own. As a result, it’s hard f
 o
r router A to know the ELC of router B.
>
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>
>> -----邮件原件-----
>> 发件人: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee@lindem.com]
>> 发送时间: 2014年5月6日 21:14
>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu
>> 抄送: joel jaeggli; Acee Lindem; George, Wes; sunset4@ietf.org; OSPF List;
>> isis-wg@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>
>>
>> On May 5, 2014, at 9:48 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----邮件原件-----
>>>> 发件人: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 joel jaeggli
>>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月5日 23:55
>>>> 收件人: Acee Lindem; Xuxiaohu; George, Wes
>>>> 抄送: ospf@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; isis-wg@ietf.org;
>>>> sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>> 主题: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>
>>>> On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>> Xiaohu – what are precisely the situations that you think you need
>>>>> this
>>>>> IPv6 address?
>>>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>> if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast addresses.
>>>> you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance that
>>>> those actually map. the first time you have a router id of
>>>> 11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer.
>>>
>>> The IPv6 router ID sub-TLV of the ISIS router capability TLV must carry a
>> "routable" IPv6 address. If the name of the sub-TLV seems confusing, it can be
>> changed to IPv6 address sub-TLV.
>>
>> Independent of what you call it, you didn’t answer my question. Other than TE,
>> what the use cases where it is needed?
>>
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Xiaohu
>>>
>>>> I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to be
>>>> more compelling then it was in ip addresses.
>>>>
>>>>> From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com
>> <mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com>>
>>>>> Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM
>>>>> To: "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com
>>>>> <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
>>>>> Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
>>>>> "isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>" <isis-wg@ietf.org
>>>>> <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>>, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com
>>>>> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com
>>>>> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>>, "sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>> <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>" <sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>> <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>> <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>"
>>>>> <lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>
>>>>>     Hi Wes,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Thanks for pointing out these two drafts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     The motivation for these two drafts
>>>>>     (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and
>>>>>     http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very
>>>>>     simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for
>>>>>     advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas,
>>>>>     however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result,
>>>>>     it’s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations between
>>>>>     IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For
>>>>>     example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN
>>>>>     session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6
>>>>>     addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via
>>>>>     a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the
>>>>>     ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before
>>>>>     <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00)%20before>
>>>>>     inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability
>>>>>     TLV originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its
>>>>>     own. As a result, it’s hard for router A to know the ELC of router B.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Xiaohu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     *发件人:*George, Wes [mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com]
>>>>>     *发送时间:*2014年5月2日1:51
>>>>>     *收件人:*Xuxiaohu
>>>>>     *抄送:*sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>;
>>>>>     fanpeng@chinamobile.com <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>;
>>>>>     lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>
>>>>>     *主题:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the
>>>>>     authors’s email addresses directly.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     *From: *<George>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com
>>>>>     <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
>>>>>     *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM
>>>>>     *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>     <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>>     <draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>     <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>>>>>     "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>     <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>>     <draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>     <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>
>>>>>     *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>     <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>>     <draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>     <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>>>>>     "sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>" <sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>>     <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>
>>>>>     *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in ISIS
>>>>>     and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This
>>>>>     has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are
>>>>>     copied. I’ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I gave
>>>>> them -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     It is important to distinguish between places where a unique
>>>>>     identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address assigned
>>>>>     to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places
>>>>>     where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the
>>>>>     protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action on).
>>>>>
>>>>>     In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique
>>>>>     across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or is
>>>>>     the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to something
>>>>>     on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value
>>>>>     isn’t relevant has been used to make recommendations that are easier
>>>>>     for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP address)
>>>>>     but that value as a human-readable set of info does not necessarily
>>>>>     justify  changes to the protocol to support that convention as we
>>>>>     move to IPv6.
>>>>>
>>>>>     I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must
>>>>>     merely be unique, but it doesn’t have to be an IP address at all.
>>>>>     Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry
>>>>>     IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a network.
>>>>>     If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be documented
>>>>>     in the draft.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique
>>>>>     identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been
>>>>>     used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft
>>>>>     identifying this problem and discussing several solutions, including
>>>>>     simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically generating a
>>>>>     random ID, etc.  the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4,
>>>>>     either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another
>>>>>     standalone draft.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread
>>>>>     here:
>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=a&email_list=idr&q=%22
>>>>> %5
>>>>> Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=1&gbt=1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     And in the IDR meeting, minutes:
>>>>>
>>>>>     http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see
>>>>> page 11)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     I’d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Wes George
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Anything below this line has been added by my company’s mail server,
>>>>>     I have no control over it.
>>>>>
>>>>>     -----------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>     This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable
>>>>>     proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or
>>>>>     subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is
>>>>>     intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it
>>>>>     is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail,
>>>>>     you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
>>>>>     copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and
>>>>>     attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be
>>>>>     unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify
>>>>>     the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any
>>>>>     copy of this E-mail and any printout.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sunset4 mailing list
>>>>> sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSPF mailing list
>>> OSPF@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>
> _______________________________________________
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From nobody Thu May  8 12:33:05 2014
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-zzhang-ospf-two-part-metric
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Hi,

Finally I am getting back to this draft after the London meeting.

I believe in London we got good understanding of the problem and solution, =
but need further discussions on how to encode the from-network cost.

Option 1 is to encode as an MT metric (slide #9, http://www.ietf.org/procee=
dings/89/slides/slides-89-ospf-4.pdf). It is straightforward for IPv4, but =
requires Extended LSA support for IPv6.

Option 2 is to encode as Stub Link metric (slide #10). Again it is straight=
forward for IPv4 but for IPv6 it needs a bit more elaboration that I did no=
t do in London (thanks for Abhay to point out that it is different for IPv6=
).

I am leaning toward Option 2, so that an implementation of this feature doe=
s not have to rely on the bigger changes needed for Extended LSA. Before I =
put the details into the draft and present it in Toronto, I'd like to outli=
ne it here to start the discussion.

Currently, RFC 5340 states that only the DR will advertise the prefixes for=
 a transit network in the intra-area-prefix-lsa. The proposed change is to =
allow non-DRs to also do that, with the same reference info as the DR inclu=
des for the corresponding prefixes in its intra-area-prefix-lsa, but the me=
tric is set to the from-network cost. For the DR itself, it also sets the m=
etric to its from-network cost (instead of 0) in corresponding prefixes in =
its intra-area-prefix-lsa.

The above assumes that each router independently obtains and advertises its=
 from-network cost. For certain networks that this feature applies to, the =
underlying protocol (e.g. radio control protocol for a satellite network) m=
ay be able to obtain individual from-network costs in a centralized fashion=
 and communicate that out of band to the DR. To take advantage of that, a D=
R could also advertise the from-network costs for each router in its own in=
tra-area-prefix-lsa, so that when an affecting-all event happens to cause e=
veryone's from-network cost to change, only the DR needs to update its intr=
a-area-prefix-lsa (to reduce the flooding of multiple intra-area-prefix-lsa=
).

To achieve that, when the DR examines each link-lsa associated with the lin=
k as described in 4.4.3.9 of RFC 5340, in addition to advertising a single =
"primary" prefix (out of duplicated ones described in the link-lsa's), diff=
erent prefix entries are also advertised, with the reference info set to (0=
x2002, DR's Interface ID, adjacent router's RouterID). The prefix in those =
entries will all be the same, and the metric is set to the from-network cos=
t.

The difference of those additional prefix entries from the "primary" one is=
 that the Reference Advertising Router is an adjacent router but not the DR=
 itself.

During SPF calculation, when a router vertex is reached from a network vert=
ex, the rouer's from-network cost is determined the following way:

- Look up the intra-area-prefix-lsa advertised by the DR, and look for a ma=
tching prefix from the above additional special prefix entries.
- If not found, look up the intra-area-prefix-lsa advertised by the router,=
 and look for prefix entry that references the corresponding network lsa.

Any prefixes in the intra-area-prefix-lsa with the Referenced Advertising R=
outer not matching the advertiser of the intra-area-prefix-lsa will be igno=
red for all other purposes. They are only used to obtain the from-network c=
ost.

Comments?

Thanks.
Jeffrey


From nobody Thu May  8 17:53:46 2014
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Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>, joel jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "sunset4@ietf.org" <sunset4@ietf.org>, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" <lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>
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From nobody Fri May  9 01:58:16 2014
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From: Karsten Thomann <karsten_thomann@linfre.de>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiBbSXNpcy13Z10gW3N1bnNldDRd?= =?utf-8?q?___IPv6_router_IDs?=
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Hi Xiaohu,

I think I've understand your problem now, but please don't call it a 
Router ID, the router ID must not be an IP address.
To avoid any confusion about it please call it a router ip or router 
address within the TLV.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand your drafts right 
you're not requesting a real IPv6 Router ID instead of the (arbitrary) 
32bit ID, but a simple TLV to carry the routable IPv6 address of the 
router which advertises the capability.

If I understand it right, we should maybe fix the text of the other rfc 
to refect that it is an routable IP address, instead of a (possible) 
arbitrary but unique Router ID.

Kind regards
Karsten

Am 09.05.2014 02:53, schrieb Xuxiaohu:
> Hi Anton,
>
> When ISIS capability TLVs are flooded across areas, routers in one area may need to establish correlations between IP addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN session with IS-IS router B in another area. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B (identified by an IP address) has the ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet. In such case, it needs to contain at least one routable IP address in the capability TLV which has been flooded across area boundaries. In the IPv4 network, the 4-octect router ID field could contain such routable IPv4 address. However, in the IPv6 network, there is no counterpart field to contain a routable IPv6 address.
>
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>
>> -----邮件原件-----
>> 发件人: Anton Smirnov [mailto:asmirnov@cisco.com]
>> 发送时间: 2014年5月8日 22:49
>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu
>> 抄送: isis-wg@ietf.org; George, Wes; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; joel jaeggli;
>> OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>
>>      Hello Xiaohu,
>>      this whole thread started from George Wes stating that even in pure
>> IPv4 world Router ID in many protocols is NOT an IPv4 address. For convenience
>> it frequently is but on the binary scale "ID guaranteed to be routable IPv4
>> address"/"ID is just a number" - the Router ID is NOT an IPv4 address.
>>
>>      So, before you convince people that IPv6 Rtr ID is needed you must start
>> from discussing when and why Router ID is being used as IPv4 address in pure
>> IPv4 world. I believe this in other words is what Acee asking you.
>>
>> Anton
>>
>>
>> On 05/07/2014 03:10 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote:
>>> Hi Acee,
>>>
>>> The motivation for these two drafts
>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very simple: the
>> IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for advertising router
>> capabilities can be flooded across areas, however, only a 4-octect router ID is
>> carried in them. As a result, it’s hard for routers in one area to establish
>> correlations between IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area.
>> For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN session
>> with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 addresses. When router
>> A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants
>> to know whether router B has the ELC
>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before inserting an EL into
>> the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability TLV originated by router B
>> doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its own. As a result, it !
>>   s hard fo
>> r router A to know the ELC of router B.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Xiaohu
>>>
>>>> -----邮件原件-----
>>>> 发件人: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee@lindem.com]
>>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月6日 21:14
>>>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu
>>>> 抄送: joel jaeggli; Acee Lindem; George, Wes; sunset4@ietf.org; OSPF
>>>> List; isis-wg@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com;
>>>> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 5, 2014, at 9:48 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----邮件原件-----
>>>>>> 发件人: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 joel jaeggli
>>>>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月5日 23:55
>>>>>> 收件人: Acee Lindem; Xuxiaohu; George, Wes
>>>>>> 抄送: ospf@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; isis-wg@ietf.org;
>>>>>> sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>>>> 主题: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>>>> Xiaohu – what are precisely the situations that you think you need
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> IPv6 address?
>>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>> if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast addresses.
>>>>>> you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance that
>>>>>> those actually map. the first time you have a router id of
>>>>>> 11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer.
>>>>> The IPv6 router ID sub-TLV of the ISIS router capability TLV must
>>>>> carry a
>>>> "routable" IPv6 address. If the name of the sub-TLV seems confusing,
>>>> it can be changed to IPv6 address sub-TLV.
>>>>
>>>> Independent of what you call it, you didn’t answer my question. Other
>>>> than TE, what the use cases where it is needed?
>>>>
>>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Xiaohu
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to be
>>>>>> more compelling then it was in ip addresses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com
>>>> <mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com>>
>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM
>>>>>>> To: "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
>>>>>>> Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
>>>>>>> "isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>" <isis-wg@ietf.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>>, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>>, "sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>" <sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>>>> <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>"
>>>>>>> <lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>> <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Hi Wes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Thanks for pointing out these two drafts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      The motivation for these two drafts
>>>>>>>      (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and
>>>>>>>      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very
>>>>>>>      simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for
>>>>>>>      advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas,
>>>>>>>      however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result,
>>>>>>>      it’s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations between
>>>>>>>      IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For
>>>>>>>      example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN
>>>>>>>      session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6
>>>>>>>      addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B
>> via
>>>>>>>      a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has
>> the
>>>>>>>      ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before
>>>>>>>      <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00)%20before>
>>>>>>>      inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability
>>>>>>>      TLV originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its
>>>>>>>      own. As a result, it’s hard for router A to know the ELC of router B.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Xiaohu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      *发件人:*George, Wes [mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com]
>>>>>>>      *发送时间:*2014年5月2日1:51
>>>>>>>      *收件人:*Xuxiaohu
>>>>>>>      *抄送:*sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>;
>>>>>>>      fanpeng@chinamobile.com <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>;
>>>>>>>      lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>> <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>
>>>>>>>      *主题:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the
>>>>>>>      authors’s email addresses directly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      *From: *<George>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com
>>>>>>>      <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
>>>>>>>      *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM
>>>>>>>      *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>      <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>>>>      <draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>      <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>>>>>>>      "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>      <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>>>>      <draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>      <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>
>>>>>>>      *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>      <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>>>>      <draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>      <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>>>>>>>      "sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>" <sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>>>>      <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>
>>>>>>>      *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in ISIS
>>>>>>>      and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This
>>>>>>>      has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are
>>>>>>>      copied. I’ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I gave
>>>>>>> them -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      It is important to distinguish between places where a unique
>>>>>>>      identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address assigned
>>>>>>>      to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places
>>>>>>>      where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the
>>>>>>>      protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action on).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique
>>>>>>>      across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or is
>>>>>>>      the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to
>> something
>>>>>>>      on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value
>>>>>>>      isn’t relevant has been used to make recommendations that are
>> easier
>>>>>>>      for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP address)
>>>>>>>      but that value as a human-readable set of info does not necessarily
>>>>>>>      justify  changes to the protocol to support that convention as we
>>>>>>>      move to IPv6.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must
>>>>>>>      merely be unique, but it doesn’t have to be an IP address at all.
>>>>>>>      Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry
>>>>>>>      IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a
>> network.
>>>>>>>      If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be documented
>>>>>>>      in the draft.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique
>>>>>>>      identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been
>>>>>>>      used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft
>>>>>>>      identifying this problem and discussing several solutions, including
>>>>>>>      simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically generating a
>>>>>>>      random ID, etc.  the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4,
>>>>>>>      either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another
>>>>>>>      standalone draft.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread
>>>>>>>      here:
>>>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=a&email_list=idr&q=%
>>>>>>> 22
>>>>>>> %5
>>>>>>> Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=1&gbt=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      And in the IDR meeting, minutes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see
>>>>>>> page 11)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      I’d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Wes George
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Anything below this line has been added by my company’s mail
>> server,
>>>>>>>      I have no control over it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      -----------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner
>> Cable
>>>>>>>      proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or
>>>>>>>      subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is
>>>>>>>      intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it
>>>>>>>      is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail,
>>>>>>>      you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
>>>>>>>      copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and
>>>>>>>      attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be
>>>>>>>      unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify
>>>>>>>      the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and
>> any
>>>>>>>      copy of this E-mail and any printout.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sunset4 mailing list
>>>>>>> sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4
>>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSPF mailing list
>>> OSPF@ietf.org
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>>>
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To: Karsten Thomann <karsten_thomann@linfre.de>, Anton Smirnov <asmirnov@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] =?utf-8?b?W0lzaXMtd2ddICDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06ICBbc3Vuc2V0?= =?utf-8?q?4=5D___IPv6_router_IDs?=
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Hi Xuxiaohu,

I think that the question of the purpose of the drafts is clear now and 
I hope George can confirm it.
The problem I would like to get addressed is the term Router ID in the 
drafts, as the Router ID is not necessarily a routable address, if 
possible with an update to the rfc also for the IPv4 "Router ID" in the 
TLV...

Or do you (or someone else) have any objections or problems with a 
change of the term to clarify that it is not the router ID?

Kind regards

Am 09.05.2014 11:31, schrieb Xuxiaohu:
> Hi Karsten,
>
> Your understanding is completely correct.
>
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>
>> -----邮件原件-----
>> 发件人: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Karsten Thomann
>> 发送时间: 2014年5月9日 16:58
>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; Anton Smirnov
>> 抄送: isis-wg@ietf.org; George, Wes; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; joel jaeggli;
>> OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>> 主题: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] 答复: 答复: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>
>> Hi Xiaohu,
>>
>> I think I've understand your problem now, but please don't call it a Router ID, the
>> router ID must not be an IP address.
>> To avoid any confusion about it please call it a router ip or router address within
>> the TLV.
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand your drafts right you're not
>> requesting a real IPv6 Router ID instead of the (arbitrary) 32bit ID, but a simple
>> TLV to carry the routable IPv6 address of the router which advertises the
>> capability.
>>
>> If I understand it right, we should maybe fix the text of the other rfc to refect
>> that it is an routable IP address, instead of a (possible) arbitrary but unique
>> Router ID.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Karsten
>>
>> Am 09.05.2014 02:53, schrieb Xuxiaohu:
>>> Hi Anton,
>>>
>>> When ISIS capability TLVs are flooded across areas, routers in one area may
>> need to establish correlations between IP addresses and capabilities of routers in
>> another area. For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a
>> L3VPN session with IS-IS router B in another area. When router A needs to send
>> L3VPN traffic to router B via a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether
>> router B (identified by an IP address) has the ELC
>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before inserting an EL into
>> the MPLS-SR packet. In such case, it needs to contain at least one routable IP
>> address in the capability TLV which has been flooded across area boundaries. In
>> the IPv4 network, the 4-octect router ID field could contain such routable IPv4
>> address. However, in the IPv6 network, there is no counterpart field to contain a
>> routable IPv6 address.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Xiaohu
>>>
>>>> -----邮件原件-----
>>>> 发件人: Anton Smirnov [mailto:asmirnov@cisco.com]
>>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月8日 22:49
>>>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu
>>>> 抄送: isis-wg@ietf.org; George, Wes; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; joel
>>>> jaeggli; OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>
>>>>       Hello Xiaohu,
>>>>       this whole thread started from George Wes stating that even in
>>>> pure
>>>> IPv4 world Router ID in many protocols is NOT an IPv4 address. For
>>>> convenience it frequently is but on the binary scale "ID guaranteed
>>>> to be routable IPv4 address"/"ID is just a number" - the Router ID is NOT an
>> IPv4 address.
>>>>       So, before you convince people that IPv6 Rtr ID is needed you
>>>> must start from discussing when and why Router ID is being used as
>>>> IPv4 address in pure
>>>> IPv4 world. I believe this in other words is what Acee asking you.
>>>>
>>>> Anton
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 05/07/2014 03:10 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote:
>>>>> Hi Acee,
>>>>>
>>>>> The motivation for these two drafts
>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and
>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very
>>>> simple: the
>>>> IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for advertising
>>>> router capabilities can be flooded across areas, however, only a
>>>> 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result, it’s hard for
>>>> routers in one area to establish correlations between IPv6 addresses and
>> capabilities of routers in another area.
>>>> For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a
>>>> L3VPN session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6
>>>> addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via
>>>> a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the ELC
>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before
>>>> inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability TLV
>>>> originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its own. As a result,
>> it !
>>>>    s hard fo
>>>> r router A to know the ELC of router B.
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Xiaohu
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----邮件原件-----
>>>>>> 发件人: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee@lindem.com]
>>>>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月6日 21:14
>>>>>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu
>>>>>> 抄送: joel jaeggli; Acee Lindem; George, Wes; sunset4@ietf.org; OSPF
>>>>>> List; isis-wg@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com;
>>>>>> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>>>> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 5, 2014, at 9:48 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----邮件原件-----
>>>>>>>> 发件人: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 joel jaeggli
>>>>>>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月5日 23:55
>>>>>>>> 收件人: Acee Lindem; Xuxiaohu; George, Wes
>>>>>>>> 抄送: ospf@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; isis-wg@ietf.org;
>>>>>>>> sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>>>>>> 主题: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Xiaohu – what are precisely the situations that you think you
>>>>>>>>> need this
>>>>>>>>> IPv6 address?
>>>>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>>> if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast addresses.
>>>>>>>> you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance
>>>>>>>> that those actually map. the first time you have a router id of
>>>>>>>> 11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer.
>>>>>>> The IPv6 router ID sub-TLV of the ISIS router capability TLV must
>>>>>>> carry a
>>>>>> "routable" IPv6 address. If the name of the sub-TLV seems
>>>>>> confusing, it can be changed to IPv6 address sub-TLV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Independent of what you call it, you didn’t answer my question.
>>>>>> Other than TE, what the use cases where it is needed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>> Xiaohu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to
>>>>>>>> be more compelling then it was in ip addresses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com
>>>>>> <mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com>>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
>>>>>>>>> "isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>" <isis-wg@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>>, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>>, "sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>" <sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>"
>>>>>>>>> <lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>> <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Hi Wes,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Thanks for pointing out these two drafts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       The motivation for these two drafts
>>>>>>>>>       (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and
>>>>>>>>>       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is
>> very
>>>>>>>>>       simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used
>> for
>>>>>>>>>       advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas,
>>>>>>>>>       however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result,
>>>>>>>>>       it’s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations
>> between
>>>>>>>>>       IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For
>>>>>>>>>       example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a
>> L3VPN
>>>>>>>>>       session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6
>>>>>>>>>       addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to
>>>>>>>>> router B
>>>> via
>>>>>>>>>       a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>       ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before
>>>>>>>>>
>> <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00)%20before>
>>>>>>>>>       inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the
>> Capability
>>>>>>>>>       TLV originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its
>>>>>>>>>       own. As a result, it’s hard for router A to know the ELC of
>> router B.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Xiaohu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       *发件人:*George, Wes [mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com]
>>>>>>>>>       *发送时间:*2014年5月2日1:51
>>>>>>>>>       *收件人:*Xuxiaohu
>>>>>>>>>       *抄送:*sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>;
>>>>>>>>>       fanpeng@chinamobile.com
>> <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>;
>>>>>>>>>       lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
>>>> <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>
>>>>>>>>>       *主题:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the
>>>>>>>>>       authors’s email addresses directly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       *From: *<George>, "George, Wes"
>> <wesley.george@twcable.com
>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com>>
>>>>>>>>>       *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM
>>>>>>>>>       *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>>>>>>       <draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>>>>>>>>>       "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>>>>>>       <draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org>>
>>>>>>>>>       *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>>>>>>       <draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org>>,
>>>>>>>>>       "sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>"
>> <sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>>
>>>>>>>>>       *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in
>> ISIS
>>>>>>>>>       and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This
>>>>>>>>>       has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are
>>>>>>>>>       copied. I’ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I
>>>>>>>>> gave them -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       It is important to distinguish between places where a unique
>>>>>>>>>       identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address
>> assigned
>>>>>>>>>       to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places
>>>>>>>>>       where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the
>>>>>>>>>       protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action
>> on).
>>>>>>>>>       In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be
>> unique
>>>>>>>>>       across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter,
>> or is
>>>>>>>>>       the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to
>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>       on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the
>> value
>>>>>>>>>       isn’t relevant has been used to make recommendations that
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>> easier
>>>>>>>>>       for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP
>> address)
>>>>>>>>>       but that value as a human-readable set of info does not
>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>>       justify  changes to the protocol to support that convention as
>> we
>>>>>>>>>       move to IPv6.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must
>>>>>>>>>       merely be unique, but it doesn’t have to be an IP address at all.
>>>>>>>>>       Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry
>>>>>>>>>       IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a
>>>> network.
>>>>>>>>>       If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be
>> documented
>>>>>>>>>       in the draft.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique
>>>>>>>>>       identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has
>> been
>>>>>>>>>       used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft
>>>>>>>>>       identifying this problem and discussing several solutions,
>> including
>>>>>>>>>       simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically
>> generating a
>>>>>>>>>       random ID, etc.  the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4,
>>>>>>>>>       either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another
>>>>>>>>>       standalone draft.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread
>>>>>>>>>       here:
>>>>>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=a&email_list=idr&q
>>>>>>>>> =%
>>>>>>>>> 22
>>>>>>>>> %5
>>>>>>>>> Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=1&gbt=1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       And in the IDR meeting, minutes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr
>>>>>>>>> (see page 11)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       I’d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on
>> this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Wes George
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Anything below this line has been added by my company’s
>>>>>>>>> mail
>>>> server,
>>>>>>>>>       I have no control over it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       -----------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> Warner
>>>> Cable
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>>>>>>>>> sunset4@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: Karsten Thomann <karsten_thomann@linfre.de>, Anton Smirnov <asmirnov@cisco.com>
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Hi Uma,
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On May 9, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Uma Chunduri &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:uma.chu=
nduri@ericsson.com">uma.chunduri@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-hei=
ght: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-trans=
form: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">
<div>Hi Acee,</div>
<div><font color=3D"#00B050">In-line [Uma]:</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&gt;I can see these -</div>
<div>&gt;1.&nbsp; RLFA TLDP session without having to worry a PQ node suppo=
rts TE or</div>
<div>&gt;not</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I don't think this is a good use case. You need to have an the AF topo=
logy in order to compute the remote LFA. Also, you may inherit remote LFA t=
argets for external and prefixes from other areas but you will never comput=
e remote LFA targets in other areas
 (at least not with today's algorithms).</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#00B050">[Uma]: It doesn't have to be a different area.=
 Take a simplest case of one area or an L2 domain; after having computed al=
l the PQ nodes in that area/domain if the PQ node doesn't support TE and do=
esn't advertise router ID (TLV 134)
 which IP address you would pick for TLDP session ?&nbsp; You can't reliabl=
y know from the advertised prefixes from the node that it is hosted by&nbsp=
; the node if router ID is not emitted by the node (as it doesn't support T=
E).</font></div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The only advantage I can see is that a router can explicitly specify w=
hich local address it wants to use for targeted LFA sessions.&nbsp;</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-hei=
ght: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-trans=
form: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">
<div><font color=3D"#00B050">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>&gt;2. Orchestration software on a controller or an application which =
is</div>
<div>&gt;having access to</div>
<div>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; the topology database of the network may determine th=
e node IP</div>
<div>&gt;address without having to go through the hoops (to determine if it=
's</div>
<div>&gt;redistributed or leaked etc..)</div>
<div>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; with this TLV.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Can you be more precise? If the orchestration application is going to =
orchestrate across multiple areas, I would hope it would have visibility to=
 the topologies of these areas.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#00B050">[Uma]: Even for a same area or domain having a=
 node advertise it's loopback as router ID without relation any relation to=
 TE (supported or not) is a benefit in this case.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#00B050">The ability of an application on a controller =
to know this easily is a huge advantage.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#00B050">Also there could be multiple loopback and each=
 for different purposes. For e.g. a PCE on a controller with<span class=3D"=
Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-pce-pceps">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pceps</a><=
span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>can
 know PCC address</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#00B050">with a firewall port/IP opened on the router f=
or TLS connection. It would be great this can happen easily and automatical=
ly.</font></div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don=A1=A6t think anyone would have a firewall within an IGP routing =
domain. Hence, it would be the same purported advantage as above.&nbsp;</di=
v>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-hei=
ght: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-trans=
form: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">
<div><font color=3D"#00B050">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>--</div>
<div>Uma C.</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_96F7B28AFAE848BF9A88985E3AAC9436ericssoncom_--


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Acee,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">My comments inline [Uma1]=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US=
">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US=
">Uma C.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Acee Lin=
dem
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 09, 2014 6:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Uma Chunduri<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Xuxiaohu; isis-wg@ietf.org; Wes George; Anton Smirnov; fanpeng@c=
hinamobile.com; Joel jaeggli; OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chin=
amobile.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] </span><span lang=3D"ZH-TW" style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">:
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-TW" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Uma,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On May 9, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Uma Chunduri &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:uma.chunduri@ericsson.com">uma.chunduri@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Acee,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050">In-line [Uma]:</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;I can see these -<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;1.&nbsp; RLFA TLDP session without =
having to worry a PQ node supports TE or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I don't think this is a good use case. =
You need to have an the AF topology in order to compute the remote LFA. Als=
o, you may inherit remote LFA targets for external and prefixes
 from other areas but you will never compute remote LFA targets in other ar=
eas (at least not with today's algorithms).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050">[Uma]: It doesn't have to=
 be a different area. Take a simplest case of one area or an L2 domain; aft=
er having computed all the PQ nodes in that area/domain
 if the PQ node doesn't support TE and doesn't advertise router ID (TLV 134=
) which IP address you would pick for TLDP session ?&nbsp; You can't reliab=
ly know from the advertised prefixes from the node that it is hosted by&nbs=
p; the node if router ID is not emitted by
 the node (as it doesn't support TE).</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The only advantage I can see is that a router can ex=
plicitly specify which local address it wants to use for targeted LFA sessi=
ons.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Uma1]: Yes Acee. This is more practical way =
and a separate IP can be hosted for this and this has to be advertised as =
=A1=B0router IP=A1=B1</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;2. Orchestration software on a cont=
roller or an application which is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;having access to<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; the topology database =
of the network may determine the node IP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;address without having to go throug=
h the hoops (to determine if it's<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;redistributed or leaked etc..)<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; with this TLV.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Can you be more precise? If the orchest=
ration application is going to orchestrate across multiple areas, I would h=
ope it would have visibility to the topologies of these
 areas.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050">[Uma]: Even for a same ar=
ea or domain having a node advertise it's loopback as router ID without rel=
ation any relation to TE (supported or not) is a benefit
 in this case.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050">The ability of an applica=
tion on a controller to know this easily is a huge advantage.</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050">Also there could be multi=
ple loopback and each for different purposes. For e.g. a PCE on a controlle=
r with<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https:/=
/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pceps">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-ietf-pce-pceps</a><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>can
 know PCC address</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050">with a firewall port/IP o=
pened on the router for TLS connection. It would be great this can happen e=
asily and automatically.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=A1=AFt think anyone would have a firewall with=
in an IGP routing domain. Hence, it would be the same purported advantage a=
s above.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Uma]: IMO, it depends on=
 the controller (where it=A1=AFs located) and how many areas/ASes it is ove=
rseeing and also depends on applications it=A1=AFs giving to access
 to network nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In a pure IGP environment, =
application of FW may not be necessary, but &nbsp;giving access to the node=
s through applications/controller is completely
 a different thing and security requirements can be different.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Also the main point as you can se=
e here is not only about security but it=A1=AFs about giving visibility of =
the =A1=B0router IP=A1=B1 through topology database
 to an outside entity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Overall , FWIW it=A1=AFs =
an useful addition to indicate this through (a sub-tlv of) the router capab=
ility TLV as presented here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Uma&nbsp; C.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B80Deusaamb105erics_--


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Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 22:41:45 -0400
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To: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>,  Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
References: <CF8CEDD4.2D52B%acee.lindem@ericsson.com> <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <EEB7CA30-C044-4A35-AF80-F71CEDF521C9@lindem.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536C9892.50107@linfre.de> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270D2D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <C080EC1B-823A-4456-9622-056C9F95821E@ericsson.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B228@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <CF929EBE.2DBBE%acee.lindem@ericsson.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B362@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <96F7B28A-FAE8-48BF-9A88-985E3AAC9436@ericsson.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B80D@eusaamb105.ericsson.se>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] =?utf-8?b?W0lzaXMtd2ddICDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06ICBbc3Vuc2V0?= =?utf-8?q?4=5D___IPv6_router_IDs?=
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(Only to Acee and Uma.  I will let you two sort this out on the list.)

Reading this thread, it look's to me like whatever uses this has, they 
are not related to the router ID.
So if there is anything here at all, it is some other service address 
advertisement.

Uma, I would point out that currently one can not assume that a received 
router ID is a usqble address.  Hence, there has to be an upgrade to the 
advertising router to indicate this new usage.  If there is an upgrade, 
then most of the use cases are addressed either by upgrading to the 
feature you really want, or by some form of service address 
advertisement.  Router ID does not seem to be the right hook.

Yours,
Joel

On 5/11/14, 10:29 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote:
> Hi Acee,
>
> My comments inline [Uma1]
>
> --
>
> Uma C.
>
> *From:*Acee Lindem
> *Sent:* Friday, May 09, 2014 6:47 PM
> *To:* Uma Chunduri
> *Cc:* Xuxiaohu; isis-wg@ietf.org; Wes George; Anton Smirnov;
> fanpeng@chinamobile.com; Joel jaeggli; OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org;
> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] 答复: 答复: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>
> Hi Uma,
>
> On May 9, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com
> <mailto:uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Acee,
>
> In-line [Uma]:
>
>>I can see these -
>
>>1.  RLFA TLDP session without having to worry a PQ node supports TE or
>
>>not
>
> I don't think this is a good use case. You need to have an the AF
> topology in order to compute the remote LFA. Also, you may inherit
> remote LFA targets for external and prefixes from other areas but you
> will never compute remote LFA targets in other areas (at least not with
> today's algorithms).
>
> [Uma]: It doesn't have to be a different area. Take a simplest case of
> one area or an L2 domain; after having computed all the PQ nodes in that
> area/domain if the PQ node doesn't support TE and doesn't advertise
> router ID (TLV 134) which IP address you would pick for TLDP session ?
> You can't reliably know from the advertised prefixes from the node that
> it is hosted by  the node if router ID is not emitted by the node (as it
> doesn't support TE).
>
> The only advantage I can see is that a router can explicitly specify
> which local address it wants to use for targeted LFA sessions.
>
>
> [Uma1]: Yes Acee. This is more practical way and a separate IP can be
> hosted for this and this has to be advertised as “router IP”
>
>>2. Orchestration software on a controller or an application which is
>
>>having access to
>
>>   the topology database of the network may determine the node IP
>
>>address without having to go through the hoops (to determine if it's
>
>>redistributed or leaked etc..)
>
>>   with this TLV.
>
> Can you be more precise? If the orchestration application is going to
> orchestrate across multiple areas, I would hope it would have visibility
> to the topologies of these areas.
>
> [Uma]: Even for a same area or domain having a node advertise it's
> loopback as router ID without relation any relation to TE (supported or
> not) is a benefit in this case.
>
> The ability of an application on a controller to know this easily is a
> huge advantage.
>
> Also there could be multiple loopback and each for different purposes.
> For e.g. a PCE on a controller
> withhttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcepscan know PCC address
>
> with a firewall port/IP opened on the router for TLS connection. It
> would be great this can happen easily and automatically.
>
> I don’t think anyone would have a firewall within an IGP routing domain.
> Hence, it would be the same purported advantage as above.
>
> [Uma]: IMO, it depends on the controller (where it’s located) and how
> many areas/ASes it is overseeing and also depends on applications it’s
> giving to access to network nodes.
>
>               In a pure IGP environment, application of FW may not be
> necessary, but  giving access to the nodes through
> applications/controller is completely a different thing and security
> requirements can be different.
>
>              Also the main point as you can see here is not only about
> security but it’s about giving visibility of the “router IP” through
> topology database to an outside entity.
>
> Overall , FWIW it’s an useful addition to indicate this through (a
> sub-tlv of) the router capability TLV as presented here.
>
> --
>
> Uma  C.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Isis-wg mailing list
> Isis-wg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg
>


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From: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] =?utf-8?b?W3N1bnNldDRdIFtJc2lzLXdnXSAg562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSN?= =?utf-8?q?=3A_____IPv6_router_IDs?=
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On 5/11/14, 8:01 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote:
> Dear Joel,
> =20
>>Uma, I would point out that currently one cannot assume that a received=
 router ID is a usqble address. =20
> =20
> I agree this is true for OSPF.
> =20
> But for IS-IS it's always a routable IP, but the point is it may not be=

> there if there is no TE.

an sub tlv 6 interface-id is a not router-id

an isis system id is neither 32 bits  nor ip.

> RFC 6119
>         " 4.1.  IPv6 TE Router ID TLV
> =20
>          The IPv6 TE Router ID TLV is TLV type 140.
> =20
>          The IPv6 TE Router ID TLV contains a 16-octet IPv6 address.  A=

> stable
>          global IPv6 address MUST be used, so that the router ID provid=
es a
>          routable address, regardless of the state of a node's interfac=
es.
> =20
>          If a router does not implement traffic engineering, it MAY
> include or
>          omit the IPv6 TE Router ID TLV."

 IPv6 TE Router ID TLV

is not semantically equivalent to router-id or system  id and should not
be treated as  such.

> Same story for IPv4 per RFC 5305. It's better to leave this "Router ID"=

> alone for this purpose (or relax this to non TE purposes too, but one
> can't advertise multiple of them).
> =20
>>Hence, there has to be an upgrade to the advertising router to indicate=
 this new usage.  If there is an upgrade, then most of the use cases are =
addressed either by upgrading to the feature you really want, or by some =
form of service address >advertisement.  Router ID does not
> seem to be the right hook.
> =20
> Instead of "Router ID", I agree it's better to call it as Service IP or=

> "routable IP address" TLV.
> Yes, upgrade would be require for any node to emit this one!
> =20
> --
> Uma C.
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:42 PM
> To: Uma Chunduri; Acee Lindem
> Cc: Wes George; Joel jaeggli; OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org;
> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [=
sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
> =20
> (Only to Acee and Uma.  I will let you two sort this out on the list.)
> =20
> Reading this thread, it look's to me like whatever uses this has, they
> are not related to the router ID.
> So if there is anything here at all, it is some other service address
> advertisement.
> =20
> Uma, I would point out that currently one can not assume that a receive=
d
> router ID is a usqble address.  Hence, there has to be an upgrade to th=
e
> advertising router to indicate this new usage.  If there is an upgrade,=

> then most of the use cases are addressed either by upgrading to the
> feature you really want, or by some form of service address
> advertisement.  Router ID does not seem to be the right hook.
> =20
> Yours,
> Joel
> =20
> On 5/11/14, 10:29 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote:
>> Hi Acee,
>>
>> My comments inline [Uma1]
>>
>> --
>>
>> Uma C.
>>
>> *From:*Acee Lindem
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 09, 2014 6:47 PM
>> *To:* Uma Chunduri
>> *Cc:* Xuxiaohu; isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>; Wes George=
; Anton Smirnov;
>> fanpeng@chinamobile.com <mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>; Joel jaeggli=
;
> OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org <mailto:sunset4@ietf.org>;
>> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com <mailto:lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D=
: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs
>>
>> Hi Uma,
>>
>> On May 9, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com=20
>> <mailto:uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Acee,
>>
>> In-line [Uma]:
>>
>>>I can see these -
>>
>>>1.  RLFA TLDP session without having to worry a PQ node supports TE or=

>>
>>>not
>>
>> I don't think this is a good use case. You need to have an the AF=20
>> topology in order to compute the remote LFA. Also, you may inherit=20
>> remote LFA targets for external and prefixes from other areas but you =

>> will never compute remote LFA targets in other areas (at least not=20
>> with today's algorithms).
>>
>> [Uma]: It doesn't have to be a different area. Take a simplest case of=
=20
>> one area or an L2 domain; after having computed all the PQ nodes in=20
>> that area/domain if the PQ node doesn't support TE and doesn't=20
>> advertise router ID (TLV 134) which IP address you would pick for TLDP=
 session ?
>> You can't reliably know from the advertised prefixes from the node=20
>> that it is hosted by  the node if router ID is not emitted by the node=
=20
>> (as it doesn't support TE).
>>
>> The only advantage I can see is that a router can explicitly specify=20
>> which local address it wants to use for targeted LFA sessions.
>>
>>
>> [Uma1]: Yes Acee. This is more practical way and a separate IP can be =

>> hosted for this and this has to be advertised as =E2=80=9Crouter IP=E2=
=80=9D
>>
>>>2. Orchestration software on a controller or an application which is
>>
>>>having access to
>>
>>>   the topology database of the network may determine the node IP
>>
>>>address without having to go through the hoops (to determine if it's
>>
>>>redistributed or leaked etc..)
>>
>>>   with this TLV.
>>
>> Can you be more precise? If the orchestration application is going to =

>> orchestrate across multiple areas, I would hope it would have=20
>> visibility to the topologies of these areas.
>>
>> [Uma]: Even for a same area or domain having a node advertise it's=20
>> loopback as router ID without relation any relation to TE (supported=20
>> or
>> not) is a benefit in this case.
>>
>> The ability of an application on a controller to know this easily is a=
=20
>> huge advantage.
>>
>> Also there could be multiple loopback and each for different purposes.=

>> For e.g. a PCE on a controller
>> withhttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcepscan know PCC=20
>> address
>>
>> with a firewall port/IP opened on the router for TLS connection. It=20
>> would be great this can happen easily and automatically.
>>
>> I don=E2=80=99t think anyone would have a firewall within an IGP routi=
ng domain.
>> Hence, it would be the same purported advantage as above.
>>
>> [Uma]: IMO, it depends on the controller (where it=E2=80=99s located) =
and how=20
>> many areas/ASes it is overseeing and also depends on applications it=E2=
=80=99s=20
>> giving to access to network nodes.
>>
>>               In a pure IGP environment, application of FW may not be =

>> necessary, but  giving access to the nodes through=20
>> applications/controller is completely a different thing and security=20
>> requirements can be different.
>>
>>              Also the main point as you can see here is not only about=
=20
>> security but it=E2=80=99s about giving visibility of the =E2=80=9Crout=
er IP=E2=80=9D through=20
>> topology database to an outside entity.
>>
>> Overall , FWIW it=E2=80=99s an useful addition to indicate this throug=
h (a=20
>> sub-tlv of) the router capability TLV as presented here.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Uma  C.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Isis-wg mailing list
>> Isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:Isis-wg@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg
>>
> =20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sunset4 mailing list
> sunset4@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4
>=20



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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "akatlas@gmail.com" <akatlas@gmail.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "akr@cisco.com" <akr@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
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Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 15:53:47 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)
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Hi Alia,=20

We have discussed this technical errata offline and I agree with it. I
think the following text should be added:

    This situation comes into play when a router views an LSA as being
more recent when the LSA is requested (via Link-State Request) but as the
same instance when the LSA is actually received.

Thanks,
Acee=20

-----Original Message-----
From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Date: Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:28 AM
To: "jmoy@casc.com" <jmoy@casc.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>,
Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>, Ericsson
<acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
Cc: Mike Dubrovskiy <mdubrovs@cisco.com>, OSPF - OSPF WG List
<ospf@ietf.org>, "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2328 (3974)

>The following errata report has been submitted for RFC2328,
>"OSPF Version 2".
>
>--------------------------------------
>You may review the report below and at:
>http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D2328&eid=3D3974
>
>--------------------------------------
>Type: Technical
>Reported by: Mike Dubrovsky <mdubrovs@cisco.com>
>
>Section: 13
>
>Original Text
>-------------
>    (6) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
>        neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
>        Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
>        Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
>        the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
>        packet.
>
>    (7) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
>        copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
>        should be performed:
>
>        (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
>            for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
>            an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
>            received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
>            the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
>            "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
>            for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).
>
>        (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
>            Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
>            interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.
>
>
>Corrected Text
>--------------
>    (6) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
>        copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
>        should be performed:
>
>        (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
>            for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
>            an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
>            received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
>            the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
>            "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
>            for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).
>
>        (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
>            Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
>            interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.
>
>    (7) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
>        neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
>        Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
>        Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
>        the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
>        packet.
>
>
>Notes
>-----
>The problem arises when the routing domain has two instances of LSA
>with the same sequence number and the same checksum,
>but with an age difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.
>
>The above could take place in multiple scenarios. Here are two examples:
>
>1) There is a demand circuit somewhere in the routing domain
>2) The router lost its ASBR status and therefore flushed the
>self-originated Type 5 LSAs
>   but later on gained the ASBR status back and re-originated Type 5.
>   If the network was partitioned, each partition can have two instances
>of LSA
>   with an age difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.
>  =20
>The two instances of LSA can temporarily prevent the adjacency formation.
>  =20
>Consider the example below:
>
>
>Topology
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
>RT1 ----- RT2
>
>Initial state:
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>The physical link between RT1 and R2 just came up
>The routers are about to form ospf adjacency.
>
>Initial link-state databases:
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>R1 ospf database has          LSA 10.0.0.1 age 910 seq # 0x80000001
>R2 ospf database has the same LSA 10.0.0.1 age   9 seq # 0x80000001
>
>RT1 Event Sequence:
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>RT1 is starting to form adjacency with RT2.
>
>1) During the Database Exchange, RT2's LSA instance is more recent
>because of more than 900 (MaxAgeDiff) seconds age difference (section
>13.1 of RFC 2328).
>2) So RT1 requests the LSA
>3) RT2 sends the LSA after incrementing the age by 1 (InfTransDelay).
>4) When the LSA instance arrives to RT1, it is identical (the difference
>is exactly 900 seconds now).
>
>So RT1 aborts Loading according to step (6) of section 13.
>
>
>Solution:
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>Swap steps (6) and (7) of section 13.
>
>Instructions:
>-------------
>This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
>--------------------------------------
>RFC2328 (no draft string recorded)
>--------------------------------------
>Title               : OSPF Version 2
>Publication Date    : April 1998
>Author(s)           : J. Moy
>Category            : INTERNET STANDARD
>Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
>Area                : Routing
>Stream              : IETF
>Verifying Party     : IESG


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The following errata report has been verified for RFC2328,
"OSPF Version 2". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=2328&eid=3974

--------------------------------------
Status: Verified
Type: Technical

Reported by: Mike Dubrovsky <mdubrovs@cisco.com>
Date Reported: 2014-04-24
Verified by: Alia Atlas (IESG)

Section: 13

Original Text
-------------
    (6) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
        neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
        Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
        Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
        the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
        packet.

    (7) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
        copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
        should be performed:

        (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
            for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
            an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
            received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
            the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
            "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
            for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).

        (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
            Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
            interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.


Corrected Text
--------------
    (6) Else, if the received LSA is the same instance as the database
        copy (i.e., neither one is more recent) the following two steps
        should be performed:

        (a) If the LSA is listed in the Link state retransmission list
            for the receiving adjacency, the router itself is expecting
            an acknowledgment for this LSA.  The router should treat the
            received LSA as an acknowledgment by removing the LSA from
            the Link state retransmission list.  This is termed an
            "implied acknowledgment".  Its occurrence should be noted
            for later use by the acknowledgment process (Section 13.5).

        (b) Possibly acknowledge the receipt of the LSA by sending a
            Link State Acknowledgment packet back out the receiving
            interface.  This is explained below in Section 13.5.

    (7) Else, if there is an instance of the LSA on the sending
        neighbor's Link state request list, an error has occurred in the
        Database Exchange process.  In this case, restart the Database
        Exchange process by generating the neighbor event BadLSReq for
        the sending neighbor and stop processing the Link State Update
        packet.


Notes
-----
The problem arises when the routing domain has two instances of LSA 
with the same sequence number and the same checksum,
but with an age difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.

The above could take place in multiple scenarios. Here are two examples:

1) There is a demand circuit somewhere in the routing domain
2) The router lost its ASBR status and therefore flushed the self-originated Type 5 LSAs
   but later on gained the ASBR status back and re-originated Type 5.    
   If the network was partitioned, each partition can have two instances of LSA
   with an age difference bigger than MaxAgeDiff.
   
The two instances of LSA can temporarily prevent the adjacency formation. 
   
Consider the example below:


Topology
========


RT1 ----- RT2

Initial state:
==============
The physical link between RT1 and R2 just came up 
The routers are about to form ospf adjacency.

Initial link-state databases:
=============================
R1 ospf database has          LSA 10.0.0.1 age 910 seq # 0x80000001 
R2 ospf database has the same LSA 10.0.0.1 age   9 seq # 0x80000001

RT1 Event Sequence:
===============

RT1 is starting to form adjacency with RT2. 

1) During the Database Exchange, RT2's LSA instance is more recent because of more than 900 (MaxAgeDiff) seconds age difference (section 13.1 of RFC 2328).
2) So RT1 requests the LSA
3) RT2 sends the LSA after incrementing the age by 1 (InfTransDelay).
4) When the LSA instance arrives to RT1, it is identical (the difference is exactly 900 seconds now).

So RT1 aborts Loading according to step (6) of section 13.


Solution:
=========

Swap steps (6) and (7) of section 13.

Acee Lindem adds:
"This situation comes into play when a router views an LSA as being
more recent when the LSA is requested (via Link-State Request) but as the
same instance when the LSA is actually received."

--------------------------------------
RFC2328 (no draft string recorded)
--------------------------------------
Title               : OSPF Version 2
Publication Date    : April 1998
Author(s)           : J. Moy
Category            : INTERNET STANDARD
Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Subject: [OSPF] [Errata Verified] RFC6860 (3977)
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The following errata report has been verified for RFC6860,
"Hiding Transit-Only Networks in OSPF". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6860&eid=3977

--------------------------------------
Status: Verified
Type: Technical

Reported by: Peter Paluch <Peter.Paluch@fri.uniza.sk>
Date Reported: 2014-04-28
Verified by: Alia Atlas (IESG)

Section: 3

Original Text
-------------
   To hide a transit-only network in [OSPFv3], the IPv6 address prefixes
   are omitted from the router-LSA.  Consequently, when a Designated
   Router builds an intra-area-prefix-LSA referencing a network-LSA,
   these IPv6 address prefixes will be omitted.

Corrected Text
--------------
   To hide a transit-only network in [OSPFv3], the associated IPv6
   address prefixes MUST be omitted from the link-LSA. Consequently,
   when a Designated Router builds an intra-area-prefix-LSA referencing
   a network-LSA, these IPv6 address prefixes will be omitted.


Notes
-----
The change essentially reverts the paragraph back to the formulation from http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-05#section-3 . Most importantly, the term "router-LSA" is replaced with "link-LSA", as there are already no prefixes carried in OSFPv3 router-LSA whatsoever, and the removal of transit-network prefixes influences link-LSAs and intra-area-prefix-LSAs. Also, the change reintroduces the keyword "MUST" that underlines the behavior that is crucial to the proper implementation of the feature.

--------------------------------------
RFC6860 (draft-ietf-ospf-prefix-hiding-07)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Hiding Transit-Only Networks in OSPF
Publication Date    : January 2013
Author(s)           : Y. Yang, A. Retana, A. Roy
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: "Bhatia, Manav (Manav)" <manav.bhatia@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>, Gabi Nakibly <gnakibly@yahoo.com>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on "Security Extension for OSPFv2 when using Manual Key Management" - draft-ietf-ospf-security-extension-manual-keying-07
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Hi,

The latest version documents in this scenario.

Abhay - We are well past the WG LC and we've addressed all comments receive=
d till date. Can you please move the draft ahead?

Cheers, Manav

From: OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 6:41 AM
To: Gabi Nakibly
Cc: OSPF List
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on "Security Extension for OSPF=
v2 when using Manual Key Management" - draft-ietf-ospf-security-extension-m=
anual-keying-07

Hi Gabi,
Sorry for the delay - I agree that a replay could be accomplished in this s=
cenario if it is captured on one interface and replayed on another before a=
ny other packets are sent. Interfaces having the same source address are li=
mited to unnumbered links which are inherently P2P. At a minimum, we will d=
ocument this case.
Thanks,
Acee

On Apr 29, 2014, at 9:18 AM, Gabi Nakibly <gnakibly@yahoo.com<mailto:gnakib=
ly@yahoo.com>> wrote:


Hi Acee,
Thanks for the reply.
Just to clarify my thoughts, I believe that the use of a single sequence nu=
mber space per router does not prevent the attack. Here is an example. Let'=
s say a router is attached to two links (A and B) while using the same IP a=
ddress. Let's say the attacker has recorded an Hello message the router jus=
t sent on link A. When the router sends this message its SN is higher than =
any other packet sent on any other link by that router. The attacker would =
now be able successfully replay the recorded Hello message on link B as lon=
g as it does so before the router sends another OSPF message on link B. Suc=
h an attack will probably bring down all adjacencies of the router on link =
B.

I think it would be good to document this type of attacks as many network o=
perators configure the same key on different links. It would be good to bri=
ng to their attention the consequences of such configurations. If you wish,=
 I can assist in writing this.

Gabi

________________________________
From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com<mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com=
>>
To: Gabi Nakibly <gnakibly@yahoo.com<mailto:gnakibly@yahoo.com>>
Cc: Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com<mailto:akr@cisco.com>>; OSPF List <ospf@ietf.o=
rg<mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on "Security Extension for OSPF=
v2 when using Manual Key Management" - draft-ietf-ospf-security-extension-m=
anual-keying-07

Hi Gabi,
Thanks much for your review and comment.

On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:39 AM, Gabi Nakibly <gnakibly@yahoo.com<mailto:gnakib=
ly@yahoo.com>> wrote:


Hi,
I think this document is a significant step forward for the security of OSP=
F. I do have one comment, though. It is concerned with the case in which th=
e same key is configured on different links. If such a situation occurs the=
n an attacker might be able to record an OSPF message on one link and repla=
y it on another. This is particularly relevant for cases where one router u=
ses the same source address in multiple links (e.g. a virtual link and a ph=
ysical link). So the attacker can record a packet sent by that router on on=
e of the links and replay it over the other as if it was sent by the router=
 itself. This may allow an attacker to cause an adjacency to be brought dow=
n.

Note that in section 2 we are recommending one sequence number space for th=
e OSPF router as opposed to one per interface. Hence, this would have to be=
 a replayed packet received from another router with the same source addres=
s since the OSPF Router ID in the OSPF header would be protected by the aut=
hentication hash. I would consider this to be a misconfiguration.

Moreover, a recorded Hello message may be replayed on arbitrary links (even=
 those that do not share a router using the same source address). If I am n=
ot mistaken, RFC2328 does not mandate to discard an Hello message having a =
source address that is not part of the subnet of the interface on which the=
 message was received.

RFC 2328 does mandate source subnet checking on multi-access networks but n=
ot P2P networks. On P2P networks, this could be a problem but would require=
 the attacker to have an active tap on both the P2P interface and another i=
nterface using the same key.  Again, this would have to be a replayed packe=
t received from another router due to the OSPF router's use a single sequen=
ce number space. There really isn't a good solution for this problem on P2P=
 links since the routers don't share any common identifier for the P2P link=
. They have an ifIndex but this is a locally unique interface identifier. W=
e can document the problem and recommend use of different keys if the possi=
bility of active taps on P2P interfaces exists.

Thanks,
Acee


Therefore, the recipient of the replayed message would allocate a new neigh=
bor entry, thus giving rise to a DoS attack.

I know that the OSPF standard allows to configure different keys for differ=
ent links, nonetheless in most of the OSPF deployments I have seen the same=
 key is configured for all links in the AS (or area). I do not know if this=
 is representative of OSPF deployments worldwide, but it might be prudent t=
o analyse the security of the proposed extensions in the context of such ca=
ses as well.

Gabi

________________________________
From: Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com<mailto:akr@cisco.com>>
To: "ospf@ietf.org<mailto:ospf@ietf.org>" <ospf@ietf.org<mailto:ospf@ietf.o=
rg>>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 9:30 AM
Subject: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on "Security Extension for OSPFv2 w=
hen using Manual Key Management" - draft-ietf-ospf-security-extension-manua=
l-keying-07

All,

We are starting a WG LC on the subject document. Document has been
stable for a while, and Manav was kind enough to present it one last
time in IETF89 (London). LC will end at 9am PST on 25th April 2014.

Please review the document and send any final comments prior to the LC
deadline.

Regards,
-Abhay

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org<mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org<mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The latest version docume=
nts in this scenario.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Abhay &#8211; We are well=
 past the WG LC and we&#8217;ve addressed all comments received till date. =
Can you please move the draft ahead?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Cheers, Manav<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> OSPF [ma=
ilto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 02, 2014 6:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gabi Nakibly<br>
<b>Cc:</b> OSPF List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on &quot;Security Extens=
ion for OSPFv2 when using Manual Key Management&quot; - draft-ietf-ospf-sec=
urity-extension-manual-keying-07<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gabi,&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sorry for the delay - I agree that a replay could be=
 accomplished in this scenario if it is captured on one interface and repla=
yed on another before any other packets are sent. Interfaces having the sam=
e source address are limited to unnumbered
 links which are inherently P2P. At a minimum, we will document this case.&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Apr 29, 2014, at 9:18 AM, Gabi Nakibly &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:gnakibly@yahoo.com">gnakibly@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Acee,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks for the reply.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Just to clarify my thoughts, I believ=
e that the use of a single sequence number space per router does not preven=
t the attack. Here is an example. Let's say a router is
 attached to two links (A and B) while using the same IP address. Let's say=
 the attacker has recorded an Hello message the router just sent on link A.=
 When the router sends this message its SN is higher than any other packet =
sent on any other link by that router.
 The attacker would now be able successfully replay the recorded Hello mess=
age on link B as long as it does so before the router sends another OSPF me=
ssage on link B. Such an attack will probably bring down all adjacencies of=
 the router on link B.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I think it=
 would be good to document this type of attacks as many network operators c=
onfigure the same key on different links. It would be good
 to bring to their attention the consequences of such configurations. If yo=
u wish, I can assist in writing this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Gabi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center;backgr=
ound:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<hr size=3D"1" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span=
></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;"> Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com=
">acee.lindem@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>To:</b> Gabi Nakibly &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gnakibly@yahoo.com">gnakibly@=
yahoo.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Abhay Roy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akr@cisco.com">akr@cisco.com</a>=
&gt;; OSPF List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org">ospf@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 28, 2014 6:06 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSPF] Working Group last Call on &quot;Security Extens=
ion for OSPFv2 when using Manual Key Management&quot; - draft-ietf-ospf-sec=
urity-extension-manual-keying-07</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<div id=3D"yiv5585511355">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Gabi,&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks much for your review=
 and comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:39 AM=
, Gabi Nakibly &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gnakibly@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gnakibly@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I think th=
is document is a significant step forward for the security of OSPF. I do ha=
ve one comment, though.&nbsp;It is concerned with the case in which
 the same key is configured on different links. If such a situation occurs =
then an attacker might be able to record an OSPF message on one link and re=
play it on another. This is particularly relevant for cases where one route=
r uses the same source address in
 multiple links (e.g. a virtual link and a physical link). So the attacker =
can record a packet sent by that router on one of the links and replay it o=
ver the other as if it was sent by the router itself. This may allow an att=
acker to cause an adjacency to be
 brought down.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Note that in section 2 we a=
re recommending one sequence number space for the OSPF router as opposed to=
 one per interface. Hence, this would have to be a replayed
 packet received from another router with the same source address since the=
 OSPF Router ID in the OSPF header would be protected by the authentication=
 hash. I would consider this to be a misconfiguration.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Moreover, =
a recorded Hello message may be replayed on arbitrary links (even those tha=
t do not share a router using the same source address). If
 I am not mistaken, RFC2328 does not mandate to discard an Hello message ha=
ving a source address that is not part of the subnet of the interface on wh=
ich the message was received.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">RFC 2328 does mandate sourc=
e subnet checking on multi-access networks but not P2P networks. On P2P net=
works, this could be a problem but would require the attacker
 to have an active tap on both the P2P interface and another interface usin=
g the same key. &nbsp;Again, this would have to be a replayed packet receiv=
ed from another router due to the OSPF router&#8217;s use a single sequence=
 number space. There really isn&#8217;t a good solution
 for this problem on P2P links since the routers don&#8217;t share any comm=
on identifier for the P2P link. They have an ifIndex but this is a locally =
unique interface identifier. We can document the problem and recommend use =
of different keys if the possibility of
 active taps on P2P interfaces exists.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv5585511355yqtfd10693">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Therefore,=
 the recipient of the replayed message would allocate a new neighbor entry,=
 thus giving rise to a DoS attack.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I know tha=
t the OSPF standard allows to configure different keys for different links,=
 nonetheless in most of the OSPF deployments I have seen the
 same key is configured for all links in the AS (or area). I do not know if=
 this is representative of OSPF deployments worldwide, but it might be prud=
ent to analyse the security of the proposed extensions in the context of su=
ch cases as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Gabi<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center;backgr=
ound:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<hr size=3D"1" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span=
></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;"> Abhay Roy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akr@cisco.com" target=3D"_=
blank">akr@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>To:</b> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ospf@ie=
tf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">osp=
f@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 11, 2014 9:30 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [OSPF] Working Group last Call on &quot;Security Extension =
for OSPFv2 when using Manual Key Management&quot; - draft-ietf-ospf-securit=
y-extension-manual-keying-07</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helveti=
ca&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
All,<br>
<br>
We are starting a WG LC on the subject document. Document has been <br>
stable for a while, and Manav was kind enough to present it one last <br>
time in IETF89 (London). LC will end at 9am PST on 25th April 2014.<br>
<br>
Please review the document and send any final comments prior to the LC <br>
deadline.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
-Abhay<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OSPF mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:OSPF@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OSPF@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf</a><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">___________________________=
____________________<br>
OSPF mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:OSPF@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OSPF@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/ospf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv5585511355yqtfd79693">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From nobody Thu May 29 15:19:58 2014
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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: OSPF - OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-03.txt
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-03.txt
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As suggested by Peter Psenak, this version give equal billing to both
backward compatibility scenarios.
If also incorporates Tony Przygienda's comments regarding the use of
"WILL" (one instance) and clarification of the metric advertisement when
both the extended and non-extended OSPFv3 LSAs are advertised.
Thanks,
Acee=20

-----Original Message-----
From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:15 PM
To: Ericsson <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>, Sina Mirtorabi <sina@cisco.com>,
Sina Mirtorabi <sina@cisco.com>, Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>, Fred Baker
<fred@cisco.com>, Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>, Abhay Roy <akr@cisco.com>,
Ericsson <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
Subject: New Version Notification for
draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-03.txt

>
>A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-03.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Acee Lindem and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:		draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend
>Revision:	03
>Title:		OSPFv3 LSA Extendibility
>Document date:	2014-05-29
>Group:		ospf
>Pages:		35
>URL:           =20
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-03.t
>xt
>Status:        =20
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend/
>Htmlized:      =20
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-03
>Diff:          =20
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-03
>
>Abstract:
>   OSPFv3 requires functional extension beyond what can readily be done
>   with the fixed-format Link State Advertisement (LSA) as described in
>   RFC 5340.  Without LSA extension, attributes associated with OSPFv3
>   links and advertised IPv6 prefixes must be advertised in separate
>   LSAs and correlated to the fixed-format LSAs.  This document extends
>   the LSA format by encoding the existing OSPFv3 LSA information in
>   Type-Length-Value (TLV) tuples and allowing advertisement of
>   additional information with additional TLVs.  Backward compatibility
>   mechanisms are also described.
>
>                 =20
>       =20
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>


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From: "Bhatia, Manav (Manav)" <manav.bhatia@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
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Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 14:17:08 +0530
Message-ID: <CAG1kdogCgCOeN4OaXZe2F7a2w6FYdFS=cmxcj6_aOOOtosMi2w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Manav Bhatia <manavbhatia@gmail.com>
To: ospf@ietf.org
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ospf/PN5sT9D4k_NuWjbv3Fny3fhUSr0
Subject: [OSPF] Advertising S-BFD discriminators in OSPF
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Hi,

We had submitted the following draft a couple of weeks ago.

http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-bhatia-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-00.txt

This draft introduces a new OSPF RI TLV that allows OSPF routers to flood
the S-BFD discriminator values in the routing domain.

S-BFD is a new charter item (will be approved very soon) in the BFD WG.

Would appreciate comments on this.

Cheers, Manav

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>We had submitted the following draf=
t a couple of weeks ago.</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://tools.i=
etf.org/id/draft-bhatia-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-00.txt">http://tools.ietf.o=
rg/id/draft-bhatia-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-00.txt</a><br>
</div><div><br></div><div>This draft introduces a new OSPF RI TLV that allo=
ws OSPF routers to flood the S-BFD discriminator values in the routing doma=
in.</div><div><br></div><div>S-BFD is a new charter item (will be approved =
very soon) in the BFD WG.</div>
<pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);word-wrap:break-word;white-space:pre-wrap"><=
span style=3D"font-family:arial;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Would appreciate comme=
nts on this.</span><br></pre><div>Cheers, Manav<br></div></div>

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