
From andy.sago@bt.com  Thu May  3 04:43:45 2012
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From: <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, <paws@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 12:43:40 +0100
Thread-Topic: Charter update progress
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Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy





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<div>Gabor</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>There has been no reflector discussion since 24<font size=3D"1"><sup>t=
h</sup></font> April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the=
 IESG, or has that already happened?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Andy</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div>
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From peter@spectrumbridge.com  Thu May  3 05:24:32 2012
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From: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 08:24:26 -0400
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Message-ID: <CBC7F131.248AA%peter@spectrumbridge.com>
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What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy





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ze: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>What is the proposal?</d=
iv><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Calibri; font-size:12pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: me=
dium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in=
; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium n=
one; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span> "<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:b=
old">To: </span> "<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.c=
om</a>&gt;, "<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-wei=
ght:bold">Subject: </span> [paws] Charter update progress<br></div><div><br=
></div><div><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server"><!=
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g-left: 4pt; border-left: #800000 2px solid; } --></style><div><font face=
=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"3"><div>Gabor</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Th=
ere has been no reflector discussion since 24<font size=3D"1"><sup>th</sup>=
</font> April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, =
or has that already happened?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Thanks</div><div>&=
nbsp;</div><div>Andy</div><div><font size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div><div><fo=
nt size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div><div><font size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div><=
div><font size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div></font></div></div></span></body></=
html>

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From andy.sago@bt.com  Thu May  3 05:31:04 2012
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From: <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, <paws@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 13:30:59 +0100
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a su=
itable granularity".

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy





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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor may have a combined =
view of the proposals - I still support my initial proposal of April 15<sup=
>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Report to =
the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granulari=
ty&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a s=
uitable granularity&#8221;. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Peter Stanforth [mailto:p=
eter@spectrumbridge.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 03 May 2012 13:24<br><b>To:</b> S=
ago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>What is=
 the proposal?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:soli=
d #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>&quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[paws] Charter up=
date progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Gabor<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#=
040100'>There has been no reflector discussion since 24</span><sup><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>th=
</span></sup><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'> April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or h=
as that already happened?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if";color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Andy<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","s=
ans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div>=
</body></html>=

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From Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com  Thu May  3 13:39:15 2012
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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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The AD sent this mail to the list:
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/paws/current/msg00926.html on April 17=
th
Since nobody argued convincingly (or otherwise) that the current usage has =
to be reported instead of the anticipated usage, I assumed the AD went ahea=
d and presented the charter update proposal with the 'anticipated usage' to=
 the iesg.
Pete, could you confirm if this has happened or will happen in the near fut=
ure?


-          Gabor

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy





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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The AD sent this mail to =
the list:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><a href=3D"http://www.iet=
f.org/mail-archive/web/paws/current/msg00926.html">http://www.ietf.org/mail=
-archive/web/paws/current/msg00926.html</a> on April 17th<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Since nobody argued convi=
ncingly (or otherwise) that the current usage has to be reported instead of=
 the anticipated usage, I assumed the AD went ahead and
 presented the charter update proposal with the &#8216;anticipated usage&#8=
217; to the iesg. <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Pete, could you confirm i=
f this has happened or will happen in the near future?<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia=
.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nok=
ia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Gabor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">There has been no reflector discussion sin=
ce 24</span><sup><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">th</span></sup><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 16:38:15 -0500
From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
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I was actually waiting on you to make the final call, but I will take 
this as it and put it on the agenda for the Thursday IESG meeting.

pr

On 5/3/12 3:39 PM, Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com wrote:
>
> The AD sent this mail to the list:
>
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/paws/current/msg00926.html on 
> April 17th
>
> Since nobody argued convincingly (or otherwise) that the current usage 
> has to be reported instead of the anticipated usage, I assumed the AD 
> went ahead and presented the charter update proposal with the 
> 'anticipated usage' to the iesg.
>
> Pete, could you confirm if this has happened or will happen in the 
> near future?
>
> - Gabor
>
> *From: *"andy.sago@bt.com <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com 
> <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>>
> *To: *"Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" 
> <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org 
> <mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org <mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
> *Subject: *[paws] Charter update progress
>
> Gabor
>
> There has been no reflector discussion since 24^th April UK time. Can 
> we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already 
> happened?
>
> Thanks
>
> Andy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> paws mailing list
> paws@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>    

-- 
Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102


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I was actually waiting on you to make the final call, but I will take
this as it and put it on the agenda for the Thursday IESG meeting.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 3:39 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a> wrote:
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  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
AD sent this mail to the list:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
 moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/paws/current/msg00926.html">http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/paws/current/msg00926.html</a>
on April 17th<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Since
nobody argued convincingly (or otherwise) that the current usage has to
be reported instead of the anticipated usage, I assumed the AD went
ahead and presented the charter update proposal with the &#8216;anticipated
usage&#8217; to the iesg. <o:p>
  </o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Pete,
could you confirm if this has happened or will happen in the near
future?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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 style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span
 style="">-<span
 style="font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
  </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
 style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Gabor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div
 style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: black;">From:
  </span></b><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: black;">"<a
 moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>"
&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
  <b>To: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>" &lt;<a
 moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;,
"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>"
&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
  <b>Subject: </b>[paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">Gabor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">There
has been no reflector discussion since 24</span><sup><span
 style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">th</span></sup><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">
April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or
has that already happened?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;</span><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;</span><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;</span><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;</span><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  </div>
  </div>
  </div>
  <pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
paws mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws</a>
  </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Pete Resnick <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</pre>
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Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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All,

 

I support Andy's proposed text.

 

Gerald

 

  _____  

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
andy.sago@bt.com
Sent: Thursday, 03 May, 2012 08:31
To: peter@spectrumbridge.com; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial
proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from
"Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable
granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a
suitable granularity". 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com] 
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

What is the proposal?

 

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org"
<paws@ietf.org>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Gabor

 

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now
submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

 

 

 

 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I support Andy&#8217;s proposed =
text.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Gerald<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>andy.sago@bt.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, 03 May, =
2012 08:31<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
peter@spectrumbridge.com;
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [paws] =
Charter update
progress</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Gabor may =
have a
combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial proposal of =
April
15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from =
&quot;Report
to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable
granularity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space =
database
at a suitable granularity&#8221;. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Andy<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0pt 0pt 0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Peter =
Stanforth
[mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 03 May 2012 =
13:24<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R;
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [paws] =
Charter update
progress<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>What is the
proposal?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0pt 0pt 0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bol=
d'>From:
</span></font></b><font color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot;
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;<a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>[paws] Charter =
update
progress<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Gabor<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>There has =
been no
reflector discussion since 24</span></font><sup><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#040100"
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#040100'>th</span></font></sup><font color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'> April =
<st1:country-region
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region> =
time. Can we
now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already =
happened?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Thanks<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Andy<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;
color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;
color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;
color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;
color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

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Hi all,

=20

I also support the proposed change.=20

=20

Jc

=20

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Gerald Chouinard
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 1:25 PM
To: andy.sago@bt.com; peter@spectrumbridge.com; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com;
paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

All,

=20

I support Andy's proposed text.

=20

Gerald

=20

________________________________

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
andy.sago@bt.com
Sent: Thursday, 03 May, 2012 08:31
To: peter@spectrumbridge.com; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my
initial proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point
5 from "Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at
a suitable granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space
database at a suitable granularity".=20

=20

Regards

=20

Andy

=20

=20

From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]=20
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

What is the proposal?

=20

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org"
<paws@ietf.org>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Gabor

=20

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we
now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already
happened?

=20

Thanks

=20

Andy

=20

=20

=20

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also support the proposed change. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jc<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Gerald Chouinard<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 06, 2012 1:25 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> andy.sago@bt.com; peter@spectrumbridge.com; =
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] =
Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Al=
l,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I =
support Andy&#8217;s proposed text.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Ge=
rald<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>andy.sago@bt.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 03 May, 2012 =
08:31<br><b>To:</b> peter@spectrumbridge.com; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; =
paws@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update =
progress</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor may =
have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial =
proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet =
point 5 from &quot;Report to the white space database anticipated =
spectrum usage at a suitable granularity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum =
usage to the white space database at a suitable granularity&#8221;. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 03 =
May 2012 13:24<br><b>To:</b> Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; =
paws@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update =
progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>What is the proposal?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: =
</b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>[paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Gabor<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>There has =
been no reflector discussion since 24</span><sup><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>th</span></sup><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'> April UK =
time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that =
already happened?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Thanks<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Andy<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
------_=_NextPart_001_01CD2C7F.519D6AD9--

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Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 14:39:57 -0500
From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
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Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it 
may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in 
spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the 
database. That is a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why 
we had it as "anticipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended 
spectrum usage" was a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" 
is problematic, and there are several folks who do not agree with this 
change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, 
that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com wrote:
>
> Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my 
> initial proposal of April 15^th , which was to change the new bullet 
> point 5 from "Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum 
> usage at a suitable granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the 
> white space database at a suitable granularity".
>
> Regards
>
> Andy
>
> *From:* Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
> *Sent:* 03 May 2012 13:24
> *To:* Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [paws] Charter update progress
>
> What is the proposal?
>
> *From: *"andy.sago@bt.com <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com 
> <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>>
> *To: *"Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" 
> <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org 
> <mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org <mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
> *Subject: *[paws] Charter update progress
>
> Gabor
>
> There has been no reflector discussion since 24^th April UK time. Can 
> we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already 
> happened?
>
> Thanks
>
> Andy
>

-- 
Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102


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Andy,<br>
<br>
As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it
may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in
spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the
database. That is a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is
why we had it as "anticipated spectrum usage". I also thought that
"intended spectrum usage" was a reasonable compromise. But simply
"spectrum usage" is problematic, and there are several folks who do not
agree with this change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest
another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your text.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a> wrote:
<blockquote
 cite="mid:619CDADDCCD2B44380834BE8BF6F71414097F123AF@EMV62-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net"
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  <div class="WordSection1">
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Gabor
may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial
proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet
point 5 from "Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum
usage at a suitable granularity" to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white
space database at a suitable granularity&#8221;. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
  <div>
  <div
 style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"
 lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"
 lang="EN-US"> Peter Stanforth [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>] <br>
  <b>Sent:</b> 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
  <b>To:</b> Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  </div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">What
is the proposal?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div
 style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: black;">From: </span></b><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: black;">"<a
 moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>"
&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
  <b>To: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>" &lt;<a
 moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;,
"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>"
&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
  <b>Subject: </b>[paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">Gabor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">There
has been no reflector discussion since 24</span><sup><span
 style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">th</span></sup><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">
April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or
has that already happened?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
 style="font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);">Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  </div>
  </div>
  </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Pete Resnick <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</pre>
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From: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
To: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>, "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:15:05 -0400
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to =93Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a =
suitable granularity=94.

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy


--
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

--_000_CBCDAFE924AE3peterspectrumbridgecom_
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<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;=
 -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-size: 14p=
x; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>Pete,</div><div>I share your se=
ntiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think that the impl=
ication &nbsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid defining what=
 or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some input and=
 contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</div><div>Peter S.</div><div><br></div><=
span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-si=
ze:12pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-L=
EFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0i=
n; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3=
pt"><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span> Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br><span st=
yle=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.c=
om">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy=
.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> Peter =
Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbri=
dge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko=
@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Baj=
ko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org<=
/a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><sp=
an style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [paws] Charter update pr=
ogress<br></div><div><br></div><div><title></title><div text=3D"#000000" bg=
color=3D"#ffffff">
Andy,<br><br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br><br>
pr<br><br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:and=
y.sago@bt.com">
andy.sago@bt.com</a> wrote:
<blockquote cite=3D"mid:619CDADDCCD2B44380834BE8BF6F71414097F123AF@EMV62-UK=
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, san=
s-serif; ">Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still suppor=
t my initial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new=
 bullet point 5 from
 &quot;Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a s=
uitable granularity&quot; to =93Report spectrum usage to the white space da=
tabase at a suitable granularity=94.
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; ">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: r=
gb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-style: solid non=
e none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-=
color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-ser=
if; " lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-f=
amily: Tahoma, sans-serif; " lang=3D"EN-US"> Peter Stanforth [<a class=3D"m=
oz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter=
@spectrumbridge.com</a>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> 03 May 2012 13:24<br><b>To:</b> Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a cla=
ss=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"ma=
ilto:paws@ietf.org">
paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, =
1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">What is the proposal?<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-col=
or: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-widt=
h: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><spa=
n style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "=
>&quot;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sa=
go@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:andy.sag=
o@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a moz-do-not-send=
=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">=
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"ma=
ilto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.or=
g</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; c=
olor: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: =
rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); fon=
t-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibr=
i, sans-serif; ">There has been no reflector discussion since 24</span><sup=
><span style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; ">th</span></sup><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Thanks<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4=
, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-fa=
mily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></=
div></blockquote><br><pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
Pete Resnick <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"http://www.qualcomm=
.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</pr=
e></div></div></span></body></html>

--_000_CBCDAFE924AE3peterspectrumbridgecom_--

From Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com  Mon May  7 15:01:03 2012
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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the sa=
me transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead w=
e want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol =
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacti=
ng the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during the=
ir operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to design=
.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I cou=
ld see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on th=
e list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, an=
d consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use=
 Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a su=
itable granularity".

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy



--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The question is what feat=
ures do we want the protocol to have. If we want to report &#8216;intended =
spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly be done within the same transactio=
n
 as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we want to repo=
rt the &#8216;actual spectrum usage&#8217;, that means that the protocol wi=
ll need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacting=
 the DB and reporting any change in spectrum
 usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to know which =
features do we want to design.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Some folks suggested anti=
cipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need the protocol to send re=
ports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I guess
 you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is the only alternative =
I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what you want. We can ask if p=
eople on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If not, then we won&#8217=
;t have a charter update until we agree on this text, and consequently we c=
an&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use Cases
 and Requirements draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ext Pete=
r Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Pete,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I share your sentiments. =
A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think that the implication &n=
bsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid defining
 what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some inpu=
t and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com=
">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">=
peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia=
.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nok=
ia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.or=
g">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy,<br>
<br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor may have a combined view of the prop=
osals - I still support my initial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which=
 was to change the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Report to the
 white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granularity&=
quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a suit=
able granularity&#8221;.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards</span><span style=3D"color:#040100=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Andy</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#040100"> Peter Stanforth [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge=
.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gab=
or.Bajko@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">What is the proposal?</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia=
.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nok=
ia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Gabor</span><span style=3D"color:#040100">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">There has been no reflector discussion sin=
ce 24</span><sup><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">th</span></sup><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Thanks</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:#040100">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http://www.qualc=
omm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a><o:p></o:=
p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (8=
58)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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From: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 18:28:16 -0400
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report =91intended spectrum usage=92, that can possibly be done within th=
e same transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If inste=
ad we want to report the =91actual spectrum usage=92, that means that the p=
rotocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously =
contacting the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time du=
ring their operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want t=
o design.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want =91actual usage=92 then, as that is the only alternative I=
 could see. Can you confirm if that=92s what you want. We can ask if people=
 on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won=92t have a charter update until we agree on this text, =
and consequently we can=92t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the=
 Use Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to =93Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a =
suitable granularity=94.

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy



--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

--_000_CBCDC2F724B0Dpeterspectrumbridgecom_
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 -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-size: 14p=
x; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>I am sorry if my last message &=
nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to the wording we ha=
d, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of several people that as=
ked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not get any indication=
 that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&q=
uot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;</div><div>Peter S.</div>=
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<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br><=
span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ie=
tf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [p=
aws] Charter update progress<br></div><div><br></div><div xmlns:v=3D"urn:sc=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif; ">Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">The q=
uestion is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want to rep=
ort =91intended spectrum usage=92, that can possibly be done within the sam=
e transaction
 as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we want to repo=
rt the =91actual spectrum usage=92, that means that the protocol will need =
to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacting the DB =
and reporting any change in spectrum
 usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to know which =
features do we want to design.
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Some folks s=
uggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need the protoc=
ol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I guess
 you want =91actual usage=92 then, as that is the only alternative I could =
see. Can you confirm if that=92s what you want. We can ask if people on the=
 list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-f=
amily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">If not, then we won=92t have a charter update=
 until we agree on this text, and consequently we can=92t include the Ofcom=
 reporting requirements to the Use Cases
 and Requirements draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sa=
ns-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=
=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"fo=
nt:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: r=
gb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 12=
5); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div sty=
le=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tah=
oma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-fam=
ily: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> ext Peter Stanforth [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@sp=
ectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> Pete Resnick; <=
a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Bajko=
 Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@iet=
f.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Pete,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);=
 font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I share your sentiments. A feedback lo=
op is very desirable but I don't think that the implication &nbsp;is well u=
nderstood. So the charter should avoid defining
 what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some inpu=
t and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1,=
 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "=
>Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcom=
m.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.=
sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.=
com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spect=
rumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Ga=
bor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mail=
to:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, =
1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy,<br><br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br><br>
pr<br><br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor may have a comb=
ined view of the proposals - I still support my initial proposal of April 1=
5<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Repor=
t to the
 white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granularity&=
quot; to =93Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a suitable=
 granularity=94.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; ">Regards</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);=
 font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><=
div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color"><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-fa=
mily: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;=
 color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> Peter Stanforth [=
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com=
</a>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> 03 May 2012 13:24<br><b>To:</b> Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [=
paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#04010=
0">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">=
What is the proposal?</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; co=
lor: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D"border:non=
e;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:=
-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span st=
yle=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "=
>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b>&=
quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&g=
t;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[paws=
] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt=
; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri,=
 sans-serif; ">Gabor</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#04010=
0"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">There has been no r=
eflector discussion since 24</span><sup><span style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; co=
lor: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">th</span></sup><span=
 style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0);=
 font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Thanks</span><spa=
n style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><br><=
br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style=3D"color:#040100">-- <o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre><pre><span style=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http=
://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;<=
/a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm Inco=
rporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102<o:p></o:p></span=
></pre></div></div></div></div></div></span></body></html>

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From: <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, <paws@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 09:53:21 +0100
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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All

Like Peter, I can live with the original text from Gabor, "Report to the wh=
ite space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granularity". I=
 think the discussions over the last few weeks have sufficiently clarified =
what we mean by this wording and what it is that Ofcom is asking for. My pr=
oposal to reword the sentence was an attempt at compromise, which left the =
sentence too wide for Pete R to take to the IESG, and I withdraw that propo=
sal. Now that we all have a greater understanding I don't think that wordin=
g change is necessary.

Regards

Andy

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pet=
er Stanforth
Sent: 07 May 2012 23:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the sa=
me transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead w=
e want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol =
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacti=
ng the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during the=
ir operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to design=
.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I cou=
ld see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on th=
e list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, an=
d consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use=
 Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a su=
itable granularity".

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy




--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>All<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Like Peter, I can live wit=
h the original text from Gabor, &#8220;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Report to the white space =
database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granularity&#8221;. I thi=
nk the discussions over the last few weeks have sufficiently clarified what=
 we mean by this wording and what it is that Ofcom is asking for. My propos=
al to reword the sentence was an attempt at compromise, which left the sent=
ence too wide for Pete R to take to the IESG, and I withdraw that proposal.=
 Now that we all have a greater understanding I don&#8217;t think that word=
ing change is necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span la=
ng=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'>Andy</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div s=
tyle=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0c=
m'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> paws-bounces@ietf.org=
 [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br><b>S=
ent:</b> 07 May 2012 23:28<br><b>To:</b> Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.o=
rg<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=
color:#040100'>I am sorry if my last message &nbsp;created/added to the con=
fusion. I was not opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I=
 know that I was one of several people that asked Ofcom directly what they =
were looking for, I did not get any indication that our proposed language u=
sing &quot;anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; =
was a problem. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0=
40100'>Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:sol=
id #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>&quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To:=
 </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#040100'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","s=
ans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Peter,</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#0=
40100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbs=
p;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The question is what features do we=
 want the protocol to have. If we want to report &#8216;intended spectrum u=
sage&#8217;, that can possibly be done within the same transaction as the q=
uery/response for channel availability. If instead we want to report the &#=
8216;actual spectrum usage&#8217;, that means that the protocol will need t=
o have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacting the DB a=
nd reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during their operatio=
n. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to design. </span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usag=
e, to hint that we do not need the protocol to send reports dynamically. Si=
nce you oppose that wording, I guess you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; th=
en, as that is the only alternative I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8=
217;s what you want. We can ask if people on the list agree with this. If y=
es, then bingo.</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If not, then we won&#8=
217;t have a charter update until we agree on this text, and consequently w=
e can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use Cases and=
 Requirements draft.</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
ListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !=
supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#040100'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt=
 "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor</span><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100=
'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-=
top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>=
<span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if";color:#040100'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100'> ext Peter Stanforth =
[<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.co=
m</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> Pete Res=
nick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b=
> Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">p=
aws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Pete,</s=
pan><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>I share your sentiments. A fe=
edback loop is very desirable but I don't think that the implication &nbsp;=
is well understood. So the charter should avoid defining what or how it wou=
ld be provided until we have had chance to get some input and contributions=
 on the issue.&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Pete=
r S.</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5=
pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span lan=
g=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D=
'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p=
resnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Peter Stanf=
orth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subje=
ct: </b>Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Andy,<br><br>As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usag=
e&quot; sounds like it may involve a dynamically updating process such that=
 any change in spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be report=
ed to the database. That is a *much* larger change than was proposed, which=
 is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;. I also thought=
 that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable compromise. But =
simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there are several fol=
ks who do not agree with this change as I have read the list. If you wish t=
o suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your=
 text.<br><br>pr<br><br>On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.c=
om">andy.sago@bt.com</a> wrote: </span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#0=
40100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor may have a comb=
ined view of the proposals - I still support my initial proposal of April 1=
5<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Repor=
t to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable gran=
ularity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space database a=
t a suitable granularity&#8221;. </span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#=
040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span la=
ng=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>Regards</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy</span><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;bor=
der-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:-moz-=
use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN=
-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#0401=
00'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100'> Peter Stanforth [<a href=3D"mailto:=
peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:=
</b> 03 May 2012 13:24<br><b>To:</b> Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:=
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ie=
tf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update prog=
ress</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100=
'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'=
>What is the proposal?</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbs=
p;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.=
0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.=
com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">and=
y.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nok=
ia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@n=
okia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.=
org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf=
.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[paws] Charter update progress</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#040100'>Gabor</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DE=
N-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#040100'>There has been no reflector discussion since 24</span><sup><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#040100'>th</span></sup><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#040100'> April UK time. Can we now submit the chart=
er proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?</span><span lang=3DE=
N-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Thanks</span><span lang=3D=
EN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col=
or:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Andy</span><span lang=3DE=
N-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><br><br><br></span><span lang=3DEN-US st=
yle=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'color:#040100'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'color:#040100'>Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnic=
k/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'>Qualcomm Incorporated - Dire=
ct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></=
div></div></div></div></body></html>=

--_000_619CDADDCCD2B44380834BE8BF6F71414097FDCDB2EMV62UKRDdoma_--

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From: Gerald Chouinard <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>
To: "'Peter Stanforth'" <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
References: <1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EB8589@008-AM1MPN1-007.mgdnok.nokia.com> <CBCDC2F7.24B0D%peter@spectrumbridge.com>
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Pete, Gabor,

 

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For them,
the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not.
"Anticipated", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are
use to deal with. It is being used or not so that the interference
calculations can be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another matter
that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any
moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using
the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is
actually used or not.

 

My two cents .

 

Gerald

 

  _____  

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Peter Stanforth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not
opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of
several people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did
not get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated",
"intended" or "expected" was a problem.  

Peter S.

 

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Peter,

 

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want to
report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the same
transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we
want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously
contacting the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time
during their operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want
to design. 

Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need
the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I
guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I could
see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on the
list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.

If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, and
consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use
Cases and Requirements draft.

 

-          Gabor

 

 

 

From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Pete,

I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think
that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid
defining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get
some input and contributions on the issue. 

Peter S.

 

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"
<Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may
involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum
usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That
is a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as
"anticipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage"
was a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and
there are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to
the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com wrote: 

Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial
proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from
"Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable
granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a
suitable granularity". 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com] 
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

What is the proposal?

 

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org"
<paws@ietf.org>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Gabor

 

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now
submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

 

Thanks

 

Andy






-- 
Pete Resnick  <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pete, =
Gabor,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You may want to look at this from =
the
regulators&#8217; point of view. &nbsp;For them, the only thing that =
counts is that the
spectrum is used or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; =
or
&quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal =
with. It
is being used or not so that the interference calculations can be done =
properly.
The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter that has to do with =
the time
granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, the spectrum is =
used or
not. The intention or expectation of using the spectrum is an aspect =
that is
orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used or =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>My two cents =
&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Gerald<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Peter Stanforth<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 07 May, =
2012 18:28<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com;
paws@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [paws] =
Charter update
progress</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>I am sorry =
if my
last message &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to =
the
wording we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of =
several
people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not =
get any
indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;,
&quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Peter =
S.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0pt 0pt 0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bol=
d'><span
id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">From: </span></font></b><font color=3Dblack
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>&quot;<a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: [paws] =
Charter update
progress<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

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<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<div link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Peter,<u5:p>=
</u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><u5:p>&nbsp;=
</u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>The =
question is what
features do we want the protocol to have. If we want to report =
&#8216;intended
spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly be done within the same =
transaction as the
query/response for channel availability. If instead we want to report =
the
&#8216;actual spectrum usage&#8217;, that means that the protocol will =
need to have the
capability to allow the clients autonomously contacting the DB and =
reporting
any change in spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The =
IESG may
want to know which features do we want to design. =
<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Some folks =
suggested
anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need the protocol to =
send
reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I guess you want =
&#8216;actual
usage&#8217; then, as that is the only alternative I could see. Can you =
confirm if
that&#8217;s what you want. We can ask if people on the list agree with =
this. If yes,
then bingo.<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>If not, =
then we
won&#8217;t have a charter update until we agree on this text, and =
consequently we
can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use Cases =
and
Requirements draft.<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><font =
color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><u5:p>&nbsp;=
</u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" face=3DCalibri><span =
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Calibri;color:#040100'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Gabor<u5:p><=
/u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><u5:p>&nbsp;=
</u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><u5:p>&nbsp;=
</u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><u5:p>&nbsp;=
</u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0pt 0pt 0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:#040100;font-weight:bo=
ld'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:#040100'> ext Peter Stanforth [<a
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, May 07, =
2012 2:15 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Pete Resnick; <a
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Bajko Gabor
(Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [paws] =
Charter update
progress<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><u5:p><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/u5:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Pete,<u5:p><=
/u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>I share =
your
sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think that the
implication &nbsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid =
defining what
or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some input =
and
contributions on the issue.&nbsp;<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Peter =
S.<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'><u5:p>&nbsp;=
</u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0pt 0pt 0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bol=
d'>From:
</span></font></b><font color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>Pete Resnick &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;<a
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc: </span></b>Peter Stanforth =
&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;=
, &quot;<a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: [paws] =
Charter update
progress<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'><u5:p>&nbsp;=
</u5:p></span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Andy,<br>
<br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; =
sounds like
it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in =
spectrum
usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. =
That is
a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as
&quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;. I also thought that =
&quot;intended
spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable compromise. But simply =
&quot;spectrum
usage&quot; is problematic, and there are several folks who do not agree =
with
this change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest another =
phrase,
that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your text.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>
wrote: <u5:p></u5:p></span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:
#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Gabor may =
have a
combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial proposal of =
April
15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from =
&quot;Report
to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable
granularity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space =
database at a
suitable granularity&#8221;. </span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Regards</spa=
n></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Andy</span><=
/font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0pt 0pt 0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:#040100;font-weight:bo=
ld'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:#040100'> Peter Stanforth [<a
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 03 May 2012 =
13:24<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; =
<a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [paws] =
Charter update
progress</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#040100'>&nbsp;<u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>What is the =
proposal?</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0pt 0pt 0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bol=
d'>From:
</span></font></b><font color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot;
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>&quot;<a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>[paws] Charter =
update
progress</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Gabor</span>=
</font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>There has =
been no
reflector discussion since 24</span></font><sup><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#040100"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>th</span></fo=
nt></sup><font
color=3D"#040100" face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>
April <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region>
time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that =
already
happened?</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Thanks</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span=
></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Andy</span><=
/font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:#040100'>-- =
<u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
color:#040100'>Pete Resnick <a =
href=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/&gt;</a><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
color:#040100'>Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: =
(858)651-1102<u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</span></div>

</body>

</html>

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From Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com  Wed May  9 11:53:12 2012
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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>, <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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Gerald,

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a prob=
lem with anticipated usage.
I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual u=
sage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the t=
ime being.


-          Gabor

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete, Gabor,

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For them,=
 the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. "Anticipat=
ed", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are use to d=
eal with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can=
 be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another matter that has to do =
with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, the spec=
trum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using the spectrum is =
an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used or no=
t.

My two cents ...

Gerald

________________________________
From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Peter Sta=
nforth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; paws@ietf.org<mail=
to:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the sa=
me transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead w=
e want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol =
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacti=
ng the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during the=
ir operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to design=
.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I cou=
ld see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on th=
e list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, an=
d consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use=
 Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a su=
itable granularity".

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy





--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gerald,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter indicated in his em=
ail that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a problem with anticipated usag=
e.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I agree that the interfer=
ence calculations need the data about the actual usage, but this does not s=
eem to be a requirement of any regulator for the time being.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ext Gera=
ld Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> paws@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Pete, Gabor,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">You may want to look at this f=
rom the regulators&#8217; point of view. &nbsp;For them, the only thing tha=
t counts is that the spectrum is used or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quo=
t;intended&quot;
 or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal w=
ith. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can be d=
one properly. The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter that has=
 to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage
 but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectati=
on of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spe=
ctrum is actually used or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">My two cents &#8230;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Gerald<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">
[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">
paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I am sorry if my last mes=
sage &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to the wording=
 we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of several
 people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not get=
 any indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &=
quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko=
@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Baj=
ko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter,</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The question is what f=
eatures do we want the protocol to have. If we want to report &#8216;intend=
ed spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly be done within the same
 transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we =
want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum usage&#8217;, that means that the=
 protocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomousl=
y contacting the DB and reporting any change
 in spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to=
 know which features do we want to design.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Some folks suggested a=
nticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need the protocol to send=
 reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I guess
 you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is the only alternative =
I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what you want. We can ask if p=
eople on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.</span><span style=3D=
"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If not, then we won&#8=
217;t have a charter update until we agree on this text, and consequently w=
e can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use Cases
 and Requirements draft.</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<sp=
an style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor</span><s=
pan style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: ext Peter Stanfor=
th [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge=
.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
To: Pete Resnick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><=
br>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org"=
>paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
span></b></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Pete,</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I share your sentiment=
s. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think that the implication=
 &nbsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid defining
 what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some inpu=
t and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@s=
pectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">G=
abor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"=
>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws=
@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy,<br>
<br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: </span>
<span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor may have a combined view of the p=
roposals - I still support my initial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, wh=
ich was to change the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Report to
 the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granular=
ity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a =
suitable granularity&#8221;.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Andy</span><span style=3D"color:#040100=
"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: Peter Stanforth [=
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com=
</a>]
<br>
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
span></b></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">What is the proposal?<=
/span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@b=
t.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">a=
ndy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a=
>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Gabor</span><span style=3D"color:#04010=
0"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">There has been no reflector discussion =
since 24</span></b><b><sup><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">th</span></sup></b><b>=
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#040100">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Thanks</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy</span><span style=3D"color:#040100=
"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">-- <o:p></o:p></span></b></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http://www.qu=
alcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a><o:p><=
/o:p></span></b></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone:=
 (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102<o:p></o:p></span></b></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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From: Gerald Chouinard <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>
To: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
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Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 15:10:08 -0400
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Cc: paws@ietf.org, 'John Sydor' <john.sydor@crc.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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Gabor,

 

That is fine then, this was the main reservation that I had about
"anticipated usage". If the regulators are happy with it, then go for it.
;-)

 

Gerald

 

  _____  

From: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com [mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 09 May, 2012 14:53
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; peter@spectrumbridge.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Gerald,

 

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a
problem with anticipated usage. 

I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual
usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the
time being. 

 

-          Gabor

 

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Pete, Gabor,

 

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For them,
the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not.
"Anticipated", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are
use to deal with. It is being used or not so that the interference
calculations can be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another matter
that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any
moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using
the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is
actually used or not.

 

My two cents .

 

Gerald

 

  _____  

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]
<mailto:%5bmailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org%5d>  On Behalf Of Peter Stanforth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not
opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of
several people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did
not get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated",
"intended" or "expected" was a problem.  

Peter S.

 

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Peter,

 

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want to
report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the same
transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we
want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously
contacting the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time
during their operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want
to design. 

Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need
the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I
guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I could
see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on the
list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.

If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, and
consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use
Cases and Requirements draft.

 

-          Gabor

 

 

 

From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Pete,

I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think
that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid
defining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get
some input and contributions on the issue. 

Peter S.

 

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"
<Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may
involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum
usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That
is a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as
"anticipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage"
was a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and
there are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to
the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com wrote: 

Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial
proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from
"Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable
granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a
suitable granularity". 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com] 
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

What is the proposal?

 

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org"
<paws@ietf.org>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Gabor

 

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now
submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

 

Thanks

 

Andy






-- 
Pete Resnick  <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Gabor,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>That is fine then, this was the =
main
reservation that I had about &#8221;anticipated usage&#8221;. If the =
regulators
are happy with it, then go for it. =
&nbsp;;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Gerald<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com [mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 09 May, =
2012
14:53<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca;
peter@spectrumbridge.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> paws@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [paws] =
Charter update
progress</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Gerald,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Peter =
indicated in
his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a problem with =
anticipated
usage. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I agree =
that the
interference calculations need the data about the actual usage, but this =
does
not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the time being. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Gabor<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0pt 0pt 0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> ext =
Gerald
Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 09, =
2012 8:18
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Peter Stanforth'; =
Bajko Gabor
(Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> paws@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [paws] =
Charter update
progress<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pete, =
Gabor,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You may want to look at this from =
the
regulators&#8217; point of view. &nbsp;For them, the only thing that =
counts is
that the spectrum is used or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, =
&quot;intended&quot;
or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal =
with.
It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can be =
done
properly. The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter that has =
to do
with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, the =
spectrum
is used or not. The intention or expectation of using the spectrum is an =
aspect
that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used or =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>My two cents =
&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Gerald<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a
href=3D"mailto:%5bmailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org%5d">[mailto:paws-bounces@i=
etf.org]</a>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Peter =
Stanforth<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 07 May, =
2012 18:28<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [paws] =
Charter update
progress</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>I am sorry =
if my
last message &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to =
the
wording we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of =
several
people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not =
get any
indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;,
&quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'>Peter =
S.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0pt 0pt 0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bol=
d'>From:
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot;
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update =
progress<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>Peter,</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>The
question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want to =
report
&#8216;intended spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly be done within =
the
same transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If =
instead we
want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum usage&#8217;, that means that =
the
protocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients =
autonomously
contacting the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time =
during
their operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to =
design.
</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>Some
folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need =
the
protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I =
guess
you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is the only =
alternative I
could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what you want. We can ask if =
people
on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>If
not, then we won&#8217;t have a charter update until we agree on this =
text, and
consequently we can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to =
the Use
Cases and Requirements draft.</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 =
level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#040100'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;
font-weight:bold'>Gabor</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0pt 0pt 0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:#040100;font-weight:bo=
ld'>From:
ext Peter Stanforth [<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
To: Pete Resnick; <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><br>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></font><font =
color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#040100;font-weight:bold'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></b></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>Pete,</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>I
share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't =
think that
the implication &nbsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid =
defining
what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some =
input and
contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>Peter
S.</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0pt 0pt 0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bol=
d'>From:
Pete Resnick &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;=
,
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot;
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;,
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></font><font =
color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>Andy,<br>
<br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; =
sounds like
it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in =
spectrum
usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. =
That is
a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as
&quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;. I also thought that =
&quot;intended
spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable compromise. But simply =
&quot;spectrum
usage&quot; is problematic, and there are several folks who do not agree =
with
this change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest another =
phrase,
that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your text.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>
wrote: </span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>Gabor
may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial =
proposal
of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet point 5 =
from
&quot;Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a
suitable granularity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white =
space
database at a suitable granularity&#8221;. </span></font><font =
color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>Regards</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>Andy</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0pt 0pt 0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:#040100;font-weight:bo=
ld'>From:
Peter Stanforth [<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>]
<br>
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></font><font =
color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#040100;font-weight:bold'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></b></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>What
is the proposal?</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0pt 0pt 0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bol=
d'>From:
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot;
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;,
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress</span></font><font =
color=3D"#040100"><span
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>Gabor</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>There
has been no reflector discussion since 24</span></font></b><b><sup><font
size=3D1 color=3D"#040100" face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:bold'>th</span></font></sup></b><b><fon=
t
color=3D"#040100" face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;
font-weight:bold'> April <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region>
time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that =
already
happened?</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>Thanks</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#040100" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;font-weight:b=
old'>Andy</span></font><font
color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#040100"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#040100;
font-weight:bold'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=3D"#040100"><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>

<pre><b><font size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:#040100;font-weight:bold'>-- =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
color:#040100;font-weight:bold'>Pete Resnick <a
href=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#040100" face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
color:#040100;font-weight:bold'>Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: =
(858)651-4478, Fax: =
(858)651-1102<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre></div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------=_NextPart_000_01DB_01CD2DF5.D356C910--

From peter@spectrumbridge.com  Wed May  9 13:59:30 2012
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From: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
To: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca" <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 16:59:20 -0400
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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--_000_CBD0527224E65peterspectrumbridgecom_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
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Amer,
I think the intent was to have some more proactive knowledge. In the US rad=
ios only have to contact the DB once every 24 hours , or 48 if they encount=
er a problem, so the information about what it did use is quite old by the =
time it informs the DB. I would agree to this from the perspective of it be=
ing better than nothing but would not be my first choice, which would be wh=
at we have proposed.
Peter S.

From: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com<mailto:amerh@microsoft.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto=
:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>" <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gera=
ld.chouinard@sympatico.ca>>, Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mail=
to:peter@spectrumbridge.com>>
Cc: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>, Paul Garnett <paulgar@microsoft.com<mailto:paulgar@microsoft.com>>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter=85

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pat=
tern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on channel re=
porting from the device to the database on what channels the device will us=
e or anticipate to use (or something along this line).

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make se=
nse  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had u=
sed since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is more accur=
ate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting =93anti=
cipated=94 channel use.  We think this is the right approach.

Thoughts?

Best,
Amer and Paul



From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.c=
om>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>; pe=
ter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Gerald,

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a prob=
lem with anticipated usage.
I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual u=
sage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the t=
ime being.


-          Gabor

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete, Gabor,

You may want to look at this from the regulators=92 point of view.  For the=
m, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. "Anticip=
ated", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are use to=
 deal with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations c=
an be done properly. The =93real-time=94 aspect is another matter that has =
to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, th=
e spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using the spectr=
um is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used=
 or not.

My two cents =85

Gerald

________________________________
From:paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-bounc=
es@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Peter Stan=
forth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; paws@ietf.org<mail=
to:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report =91intended spectrum usage=92, that can possibly be done within th=
e same transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If inste=
ad we want to report the =91actual spectrum usage=92, that means that the p=
rotocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously =
contacting the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time du=
ring their operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want t=
o design.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want =91actual usage=92 then, as that is the only alternative I=
 could see. Can you confirm if that=92s what you want. We can ask if people=
 on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won=92t have a charter update until we agree on this text, =
and consequently we can=92t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the=
 Use Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to =93Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a =
suitable granularity=94.

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy




--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

--_000_CBD0527224E65peterspectrumbridgecom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;=
 -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-size: 14p=
x; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>Amer,&nbsp;</div><div>I think t=
he intent was to have some more proactive knowledge. In the US radios only =
have to contact the DB once every 24 hours , or 48 if they encounter a prob=
lem, so the information about what it did use is quite old by the time it i=
nforms the DB. I would agree to this from the perspective of it being bette=
r than nothing but would not be my first choice, which would be what we hav=
e proposed.</div><div>Peter S.</div><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY=
_SECTION"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:12pt; text-align:lef=
t; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDI=
NG-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df =
1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style=3D"font=
-weight:bold">From: </span> Amer Hassan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amerh@microso=
ft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:=
 </span> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia=
.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald=
.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sy=
mpatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&gt;, Peter Stanforth &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;<br=
><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@=
ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Paul Garnett &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paulgar@microsoft.com=
">paulgar@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject=
: </span> RE: [paws] Charter update progress<br></div><div><br></div><div x=
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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif; ">A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter=85<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; colo=
r: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Consensus in the group (=
PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us a=
gree.&nbsp; There has been a lot of discussions on channel reporting
 from the device to the database on what channels the device will use or an=
ticipate to use (or something along this line).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; colo=
r: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">However, for the s=
uggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make sense &nbsp;that
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(192, 0, 0); font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif; ">the TVWS device report back to the database the c=
hannels it had used since the last query</span></b><span style=3D"font-size=
: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">.&nbsp=
;
 This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in accomplishin=
g the goals for channel reporting than reporting =93anticipated=94 channel =
use.&nbsp; We think this is the right approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-fa=
mily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cal=
ibri, sans-serif; ">Best,<br>
Amer and Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11p=
t; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.=
0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span sty=
le=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <a href=3D"mail=
to:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:paws=
-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico=
.ca</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>=
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; ">Gerald,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; ">Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not hav=
e a problem with anticipated usage.
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I agree that=
 the interference calculations need the data about the actual usage, but th=
is does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the time being.
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;m=
so-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: r=
gb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font=
-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10=
pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> ext Gerald Chouinard [<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a=
>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanf=
orth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailt=
o:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [paws] Charter up=
date progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; colo=
r: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Pete, Gabor,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-=
family: Arial, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-=
serif; ">You may want to look at this from the regulators=92 point of view.=
 &nbsp;For them, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or=
 not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot;
 or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal w=
ith. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can be d=
one properly. The =93real-time=94 aspect is another matter that has to do w=
ith the time granularity of the spectrum usage
 but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectati=
on of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spe=
ctrum is actually used or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif=
; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">My two cents =85=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt=
; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-=
family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Gerald<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-=
serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D=
"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D=
"center"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; fo=
nt-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@iet=
f.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@iet=
f.org]">
[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br><=
b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabo=
r.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg">
paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0);=
 font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I am sorry if my last message &nbsp;cr=
eated/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to the wording we had, that=
 Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of several
 people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not get=
 any indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &=
quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.=
5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Peter S.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 11.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4D=
F 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D=
"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb=
(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b>=
</p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11p=
t; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Peter,</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11=
pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">The questi=
on is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want to report =
=91intended spectrum usage=92, that can possibly be done within the same
 transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we =
want to report the =91actual spectrum usage=92, that means that the protoco=
l will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contac=
ting the DB and reporting any change
 in spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to=
 know which features do we want to design.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font=
-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Some folks suggested anticipated/intended u=
sage, to hint that we do not need the protocol to send reports dynamically.=
 Since you oppose that wording, I guess
 you want =91actual usage=92 then, as that is the only alternative I could =
see. Can you confirm if that=92s what you want. We can ask if people on the=
 list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I=
f not, then we won=92t have a charter update until we agree on this text, a=
nd consequently we can=92t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the =
Use Cases
 and Requirements draft.</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagr=
aph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportL=
ists]--><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#040100"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0p=
t &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>=
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b=
><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></=
span></b></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;=
padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 10pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From: ext=
 Peter Stanforth [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@=
spectrumbridge.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
To: Pete Resnick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><=
br>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org"=
>paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Pete,</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I=
 share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think=
 that the implication &nbsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid=
 defining
 what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some inpu=
t and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; ">Peter S.</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; col=
or: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div style=3D"border:=
none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
; ">From: Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnic=
k@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@s=
pectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">G=
abor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"=
>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws=
@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-=
serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b><=
/p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy,<br><br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br><br>
pr<br><br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: </span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I =
still support my initial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to ch=
ange the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Report to
 the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granular=
ity&quot; to =93Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a suit=
able granularity=94.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri,=
 sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span=
></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Regards</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><spa=
n style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
; ">Andy</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:=
p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border=
-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use=
-text-color -moz-use-text-color"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 10pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">Fro=
m: Peter Stanforth [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:pete=
r@spectrumbridge.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">What is the proposal?</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri,=
 sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span=
></b></p></div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;=
padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-co=
lor"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; ">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.s=
ago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.c=
om</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a=
>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><=
/div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, =
1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor</span><span style=3D"color=
:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><s=
pan style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp=
;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; ">There has been no reflector discussion since 24</spa=
n></b><b><sup><span style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-fa=
mily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">th</span></sup></b><b><span style=3D"color: rg=
b(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(4,=
 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>=
<span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Tha=
nks</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></=
o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"colo=
r: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><br><br><br></=
span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><pre><b><span =
style=3D"color:#040100">-- <o:p></o:p></span></b></pre><pre><b><span style=
=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnic=
k/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></span></b></p=
re><pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct pho=
ne: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102<o:p></o:p></span></b></pre></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></span></body></html>

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Reporting channels in use at the time or before the query could potentially=
 be done at the same time as reporting 'anticipated' usage, ie as part of t=
he transaction of channel availability query. I think you are also arguing =
against the actual spectrum usage reporting then.
So we should proceed with the charter update containing reporting the antic=
ipated/intended/expected usage, and have a discussion independent from this=
, on whether we want to have an additional requirement in the requirements =
document to also report past_usage/usage_since_last_query.


-          Gabor


From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 1:59 PM
To: Amer Hassan; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); gerald.chouinard@sy=
mpatico.ca
Cc: paws@ietf.org; Paul Garnett
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Amer,
I think the intent was to have some more proactive knowledge. In the US rad=
ios only have to contact the DB once every 24 hours , or 48 if they encount=
er a problem, so the information about what it did use is quite old by the =
time it informs the DB. I would agree to this from the perspective of it be=
ing better than nothing but would not be my first choice, which would be wh=
at we have proposed.
Peter S.

From: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com<mailto:amerh@microsoft.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto=
:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>" <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gera=
ld.chouinard@sympatico.ca>>, Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mail=
to:peter@spectrumbridge.com>>
Cc: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>, Paul Garnett <paulgar@microsoft.com<mailto:paulgar@microsoft.com>>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter...

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pat=
tern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on channel re=
porting from the device to the database on what channels the device will us=
e or anticipate to use (or something along this line).

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make se=
nse  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had u=
sed since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is more accur=
ate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting "antici=
pated" channel use.  We think this is the right approach.

Thoughts?

Best,
Amer and Paul



From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.c=
om>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>; pe=
ter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Gerald,

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a prob=
lem with anticipated usage.
I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual u=
sage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the t=
ime being.


-          Gabor

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete, Gabor,

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For them,=
 the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. "Anticipat=
ed", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are use to d=
eal with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can=
 be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another matter that has to do =
with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, the spec=
trum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using the spectrum is =
an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used or no=
t.

My two cents ...

Gerald

________________________________
From:paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-bounc=
es@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Peter Stan=
forth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; paws@ietf.org<mail=
to:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the sa=
me transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead w=
e want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol =
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacti=
ng the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during the=
ir operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to design=
.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I cou=
ld see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on th=
e list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, an=
d consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use=
 Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a su=
itable granularity".

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy





--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Reporting channels in use=
 at the time or before the query could potentially be done at the same time=
 as reporting &#8216;anticipated&#8217; usage, ie as part of the transactio=
n
 of channel availability query. I think you are also arguing against the ac=
tual spectrum usage reporting then.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">So we should proceed with=
 the charter update containing reporting the anticipated/intended/expected =
usage, and have a discussion independent from this, on whether
 we want to have an additional requirement in the requirements document to =
also report past_usage/usage_since_last_query.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ext Pete=
r Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 1:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Amer Hassan; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); gerald.choui=
nard@sympatico.ca<br>
<b>Cc:</b> paws@ietf.org; Paul Garnett<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Amer,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I think the intent was to=
 have some more proactive knowledge. In the US radios only have to contact =
the DB once every 24 hours , or 48 if they encounter a problem,
 so the information about what it did use is quite old by the time it infor=
ms the DB. I would agree to this from the perspective of it being better th=
an nothing but would not be my first choice, which would be what we have pr=
oposed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">Amer Hassan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">a=
merh@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia=
.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nok=
ia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gera=
ld.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@=
sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&gt;,
 Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spec=
trumbridge.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Paul Garnett &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:paulgar@microsoft.com">paulgar@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">A few comments on the cha=
nnel reporting part of the charter&#8230;</span><span style=3D"color:#04010=
0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Consensus in the group (P=
AWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us ag=
ree.&nbsp; There has been a lot of discussions on channel reporting
 from the device to the database on what channels the device will use or an=
ticipate to use (or something along this line).&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">However, for the suggeste=
d purpose of channel reporting it seems to make sense &nbsp;that
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">the TVWS device report back to the dat=
abase the channels it had used since the last query</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1F497D">.&nbsp;
 This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in accomplishin=
g the goals for channel reporting than reporting &#8220;anticipated&#8221; =
channel use.&nbsp; We think this is the right approach.</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thoughts?</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best,<br>
Amer and Paul</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:#040100">
<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=
=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinar=
d@sympatico.ca</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br=
>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gerald,</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter indicated in his em=
ail that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a problem with anticipated usag=
e.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I agree that the interfer=
ence calculations need the data about the actual usage, but this does not s=
eem to be a requirement of any regulator for the time being.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:#1F497D">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#040100"> ext Gerald Chouinard [<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinar=
d@sympatico.ca">mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Pete, Gabor,</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">You may want to look at this f=
rom the regulators&#8217; point of view. &nbsp;For them, the only thing tha=
t counts is that the spectrum is used or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quo=
t;intended&quot;
 or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal w=
ith. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can be d=
one properly. The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter that has=
 to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage
 but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectati=
on of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spe=
ctrum is actually used or not.</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">My two cents &#8230;</span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Gerald</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#040100"><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf=
.org]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">
paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I am sorry if my last mes=
sage &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to the wording=
 we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of several
 people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not get=
 any indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &=
quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;</span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko=
@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Baj=
ko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter,</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The question is what f=
eatures do we want the protocol to have. If we want to report &#8216;intend=
ed spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly be done within the same
 transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we =
want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum usage&#8217;, that means that the=
 protocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomousl=
y contacting the DB and reporting any change
 in spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to=
 know which features do we want to design.
</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Some folks suggested a=
nticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need the protocol to send=
 reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I guess
 you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is the only alternative =
I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what you want. We can ask if p=
eople on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.</span></b><span styl=
e=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If not, then we won&#8=
217;t have a charter update until we agree on this text, and consequently w=
e can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use Cases
 and Requirements draft.</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">-</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#040100">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: ext Peter Stanfor=
th [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge=
.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
To: Pete Resnick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><=
br>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org"=
>paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Pete,</span></b><span =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I share your sentiment=
s. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think that the implication=
 &nbsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid defining
 what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some inpu=
t and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.</span></b><sp=
an style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@s=
pectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">G=
abor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"=
>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws=
@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy,<br>
<br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: </span>
</b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor may have a combined view of the p=
roposals - I still support my initial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, wh=
ich was to change the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Report to
 the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granular=
ity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a =
suitable granularity&#8221;.
</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Andy</span></b><span style=3D"color:#04=
0100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: Peter Stanforth [=
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com=
</a>]
<br>
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">What is the proposal?<=
/span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@b=
t.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">a=
ndy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a=
>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Gabor</span></b><span style=3D"color:#0=
40100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">There has been no reflector discussion =
since 24</span></b><b><sup><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">th</span></sup></b><b>=
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#040100">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Thanks</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy</span></b><span style=3D"color:#04=
0100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
#040100"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">-- </span></b><span style=3D"color:#0=
40100"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http://www.qu=
alcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a></span=
></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone:=
 (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100">=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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Peter,

I always thought the intent is non-real time knowledge of the channels used=
 by devices.  Proactive knowledge will not be accurate.  As I mentioned in =
the Paris meeting, devices can proactively report "anticipated" use of chan=
nels to be all or a large subset of what the database allows (for that loca=
tion).  As a matter of fact, a default reporting by devices would be "all c=
hannels"; I don't think anyone can do anything about this without so much c=
omplexity added to enforce accuracy (something we don't want to see - that =
is the complexity increasing on the devices side).

As Gabor brings up, it is best that a device report last channels used (acc=
urate info) as mandatory plus anticipated channels (can be accurate or tota=
lly off) as optional.

Best,
Amer

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gab=
or.Bajko@nokia.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:31 PM
To: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Reporting channels in use at the time or before the query could potentially=
 be done at the same time as reporting 'anticipated' usage, ie as part of t=
he transaction of channel availability query. I think you are also arguing =
against the actual spectrum usage reporting then.
So we should proceed with the charter update containing reporting the antic=
ipated/intended/expected usage, and have a discussion independent from this=
, on whether we want to have an additional requirement in the requirements =
document to also report past_usage/usage_since_last_query.


-          Gabor


From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]<mailto:[mailto:=
peter@spectrumbridge.com]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 1:59 PM
To: Amer Hassan; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); gerald.chouinard@sy=
mpatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>; Paul Garnett
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Amer,
I think the intent was to have some more proactive knowledge. In the US rad=
ios only have to contact the DB once every 24 hours , or 48 if they encount=
er a problem, so the information about what it did use is quite old by the =
time it informs the DB. I would agree to this from the perspective of it be=
ing better than nothing but would not be my first choice, which would be wh=
at we have proposed.
Peter S.

From: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com<mailto:amerh@microsoft.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto=
:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>" <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gera=
ld.chouinard@sympatico.ca>>, Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mail=
to:peter@spectrumbridge.com>>
Cc: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>, Paul Garnett <paulgar@microsoft.com<mailto:paulgar@microsoft.com>>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter...

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pat=
tern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on channel re=
porting from the device to the database on what channels the device will us=
e or anticipate to use (or something along this line).

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make se=
nse  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had u=
sed since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is more accur=
ate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting "antici=
pated" channel use.  We think this is the right approach.

Thoughts?

Best,
Amer and Paul



From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.c=
om>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>; pe=
ter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Gerald,

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a prob=
lem with anticipated usage.
I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual u=
sage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the t=
ime being.


-          Gabor

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete, Gabor,

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For them,=
 the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. "Anticipat=
ed", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are use to d=
eal with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can=
 be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another matter that has to do =
with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, the spec=
trum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using the spectrum is =
an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used or no=
t.

My two cents ...

Gerald

________________________________
From:paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-bounc=
es@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Peter Stan=
forth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; paws@ietf.org<mail=
to:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the sa=
me transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead w=
e want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol =
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacti=
ng the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during the=
ir operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to design=
.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I cou=
ld see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on th=
e list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, an=
d consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use=
 Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a su=
itable granularity".

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy




--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I always thought the inte=
nt is non-real time knowledge of the channels used by devices.&nbsp; Proact=
ive knowledge will not be accurate.&nbsp; As I mentioned in the Paris
 meeting, devices can proactively report &#8220;anticipated&#8221; use of c=
hannels to be all or a large subset of what the database allows (for that l=
ocation).&nbsp; As a matter of fact, a default reporting by devices would b=
e &#8220;all channels&#8221;; I don&#8217;t think anyone can do anything
 about this without so much complexity added to enforce accuracy (something=
 we don&#8217;t want to see &#8211; that is the complexity increasing on th=
e devices side).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As Gabor brings up, it is=
 best that a device report last channels used (accurate info) as mandatory =
plus anticipated channels (can be accurate or totally off)
 as optional.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Amer<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> paws-bou=
nces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> paws@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Reporting channels in use=
 at the time or before the query could potentially be done at the same time=
 as reporting &#8216;anticipated&#8217; usage, ie as part of the transactio=
n
 of channel availability query. I think you are also arguing against the ac=
tual spectrum usage reporting then.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">So we should proceed with=
 the charter update containing reporting the anticipated/intended/expected =
usage, and have a discussion independent from this, on whether
 we want to have an additional requirement in the requirements document to =
also report past_usage/usage_since_last_query.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ext Pete=
r Stanforth
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]">[mailto:peter@spectrum=
bridge.com]</a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 1:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Amer Hassan; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"m=
ailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">
gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>; Paul Garnett=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Amer,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I think the intent was to=
 have some more proactive knowledge. In the US radios only have to contact =
the DB once every 24 hours , or 48 if they encounter a problem,
 so the information about what it did use is quite old by the time it infor=
ms the DB. I would agree to this from the perspective of it being better th=
an nothing but would not be my first choice, which would be what we have pr=
oposed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">Amer Hassan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">a=
merh@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia=
.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nok=
ia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gera=
ld.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@=
sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&gt;,
 Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spec=
trumbridge.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Paul Garnett &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:paulgar@microsoft.com">paulgar@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">A few comments on the cha=
nnel reporting part of the charter&#8230;</span><span style=3D"color:#04010=
0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Consensus in the group (P=
AWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us ag=
ree.&nbsp; There has been a lot of discussions on channel reporting
 from the device to the database on what channels the device will use or an=
ticipate to use (or something along this line).&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">However, for the suggeste=
d purpose of channel reporting it seems to make sense &nbsp;that
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">the TVWS device report back to the dat=
abase the channels it had used since the last query</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1F497D">.&nbsp;
 This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in accomplishin=
g the goals for channel reporting than reporting &#8220;anticipated&#8221; =
channel use.&nbsp; We think this is the right approach.</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thoughts?</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best,<br>
Amer and Paul</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:#040100">
<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=
=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinar=
d@sympatico.ca</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br=
>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gerald,</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter indicated in his em=
ail that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a problem with anticipated usag=
e.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I agree that the interfer=
ence calculations need the data about the actual usage, but this does not s=
eem to be a requirement of any regulator for the time being.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:#1F497D">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#040100"> ext Gerald Chouinard [<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinar=
d@sympatico.ca">mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Pete, Gabor,</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">You may want to look at this f=
rom the regulators&#8217; point of view. &nbsp;For them, the only thing tha=
t counts is that the spectrum is used or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quo=
t;intended&quot;
 or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal w=
ith. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can be d=
one properly. The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter that has=
 to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage
 but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectati=
on of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spe=
ctrum is actually used or not.</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">My two cents &#8230;</span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Gerald</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#040100"><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf=
.org]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">
paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I am sorry if my last mes=
sage &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to the wording=
 we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of several
 people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not get=
 any indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &=
quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;</span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko=
@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Baj=
ko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter,</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The question is what f=
eatures do we want the protocol to have. If we want to report &#8216;intend=
ed spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly be done within the same
 transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we =
want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum usage&#8217;, that means that the=
 protocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomousl=
y contacting the DB and reporting any change
 in spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to=
 know which features do we want to design.
</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Some folks suggested a=
nticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need the protocol to send=
 reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I guess
 you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is the only alternative =
I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what you want. We can ask if p=
eople on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.</span></b><span styl=
e=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If not, then we won&#8=
217;t have a charter update until we agree on this text, and consequently w=
e can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use Cases
 and Requirements draft.</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">-</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#040100">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: ext Peter Stanfor=
th [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge=
.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
To: Pete Resnick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><=
br>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org"=
>paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Pete,</span></b><span =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I share your sentiment=
s. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think that the implication=
 &nbsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid defining
 what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some inpu=
t and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.</span></b><sp=
an style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@s=
pectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">G=
abor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"=
>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws=
@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy,<br>
<br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: </span>
</b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor may have a combined view of the p=
roposals - I still support my initial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, wh=
ich was to change the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Report to
 the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granular=
ity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a =
suitable granularity&#8221;.
</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Andy</span></b><span style=3D"color:#04=
0100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: Peter Stanforth [=
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com=
</a>]
<br>
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">What is the proposal?<=
/span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@b=
t.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">a=
ndy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a=
>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Gabor</span></b><span style=3D"color:#0=
40100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">There has been no reflector discussion =
since 24</span></b><b><sup><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">th</span></sup></b><b>=
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#040100">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Thanks</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy</span></b><span style=3D"color:#04=
0100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
#040100"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">-- </span></b><span style=3D"color:#0=
40100"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http://www.qu=
alcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a></span=
></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone:=
 (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100">=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_78E118FA97DE3A47881DF3E10C086EF107F1C4CBCH1SDF0110MB368_--

From peter@spectrumbridge.com  Wed May  9 20:07:28 2012
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From: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
To: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 23:07:20 -0400
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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I will let the device guys decide if this is a complexity issue, but in any=
 given situation where the FCC rules require that we provide a list of n "a=
vailable channels", that is the channels that a TVBD could occupy without i=
nterfering with an incumbent,  the number of channels the device can actual=
ly use is closer to n/2.  So if a device reports all, or most, channels use=
d I know it is BS. If there is anyone who does not understand what causes t=
he reduction from n to n/2 ask me off list.  That said I read what Gabor is=
 proposing is that the charter include "anticipated" and we table a discuss=
ion on adding "what was used".  While I think about it in any situation whe=
re proposed or actual use is reported is it intended that, in a multiple da=
tabase implementation,  this information be shared amongst DBAs?
Peter S.

From: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com<mailto:amerh@microsoft.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

I always thought the intent is non-real time knowledge of the channels used=
 by devices.  Proactive knowledge will not be accurate.  As I mentioned in =
the Paris meeting, devices can proactively report =93anticipated=94 use of =
channels to be all or a large subset of what the database allows (for that =
location).  As a matter of fact, a default reporting by devices would be =
=93all channels=94; I don=92t think anyone can do anything about this witho=
ut so much complexity added to enforce accuracy (something we don=92t want =
to see =96 that is the complexity increasing on the devices side).

As Gabor brings up, it is best that a device report last channels used (acc=
urate info) as mandatory plus anticipated channels (can be accurate or tota=
lly off) as optional.

Best,
Amer

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.c=
om>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:31 PM
To: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Reporting channels in use at the time or before the query could potentially=
 be done at the same time as reporting =91anticipated=92 usage, ie as part =
of the transaction of channel availability query. I think you are also argu=
ing against the actual spectrum usage reporting then.
So we should proceed with the charter update containing reporting the antic=
ipated/intended/expected usage, and have a discussion independent from this=
, on whether we want to have an additional requirement in the requirements =
document to also report past_usage/usage_since_last_query.


-          Gabor


From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]<mailto:[mailto:=
peter@spectrumbridge.com]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 1:59 PM
To: Amer Hassan; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); gerald.chouinard@sy=
mpatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>; Paul Garnett
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Amer,
I think the intent was to have some more proactive knowledge. In the US rad=
ios only have to contact the DB once every 24 hours , or 48 if they encount=
er a problem, so the information about what it did use is quite old by the =
time it informs the DB. I would agree to this from the perspective of it be=
ing better than nothing but would not be my first choice, which would be wh=
at we have proposed.
Peter S.

From: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com<mailto:amerh@microsoft.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto=
:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>" <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gera=
ld.chouinard@sympatico.ca>>, Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mail=
to:peter@spectrumbridge.com>>
Cc: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>, Paul Garnett <paulgar@microsoft.com<mailto:paulgar@microsoft.com>>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter=85

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pat=
tern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on channel re=
porting from the device to the database on what channels the device will us=
e or anticipate to use (or something along this line).

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make se=
nse  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had u=
sed since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is more accur=
ate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting =93anti=
cipated=94 channel use.  We think this is the right approach.

Thoughts?

Best,
Amer and Paul



From:paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-bounc=
es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.co=
m>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>; pe=
ter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Gerald,

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a prob=
lem with anticipated usage.
I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual u=
sage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the t=
ime being.


-          Gabor

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete, Gabor,

You may want to look at this from the regulators=92 point of view.  For the=
m, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. "Anticip=
ated", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are use to=
 deal with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations c=
an be done properly. The =93real-time=94 aspect is another matter that has =
to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, th=
e spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using the spectr=
um is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used=
 or not.

My two cents =85

Gerald

________________________________
From:paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org>[mailto:paws-bounce=
s@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]>On Behalf Of Peter Stanfo=
rth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; paws@ietf.org<mail=
to:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report =91intended spectrum usage=92, that can possibly be done within th=
e same transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If inste=
ad we want to report the =91actual spectrum usage=92, that means that the p=
rotocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously =
contacting the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time du=
ring their operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want t=
o design.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want =91actual usage=92 then, as that is the only alternative I=
 could see. Can you confirm if that=92s what you want. We can ask if people=
 on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won=92t have a charter update until we agree on this text, =
and consequently we can=92t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the=
 Use Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to =93Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a =
suitable granularity=94.

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy




--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

--_000_CBD0A63E24F34peterspectrumbridgecom_
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<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;=
 -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-size: 14p=
x; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>I will let the device guys deci=
de if this is a complexity issue, but in any given situation where the FCC =
rules require that we provide a list of n &quot;available channels&quot;, t=
hat is the channels that a TVBD could occupy without interfering with an in=
cumbent, &nbsp;the number of channels the device can actually use is closer=
 to n/2. &nbsp;So if a device reports all, or most, channels used I know it=
 is BS. If there is anyone who does not understand what causes the reductio=
n from n to n/2 ask me off list. &nbsp;That said I read what Gabor is propo=
sing is that the charter include &quot;anticipated&quot; and we table a dis=
cussion on adding &quot;what was used&quot;. &nbsp;While I think about it i=
n any situation where proposed or actual use is reported is it intended tha=
t, in a multiple database implementation, &nbsp;this information be shared =
amongst DBAs?</div><div>Peter S.</div><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BO=
DY_SECTION"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:12pt; text-align:l=
eft; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PAD=
DING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4d=
f 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-weight:bold">From: </span> Amer Hassan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amerh@micro=
soft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">T=
o: </span> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia=
.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nok=
ia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><span sty=
le=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [paws] Charter update progress=
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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif; ">Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I alw=
ays thought the intent is non-real time knowledge of the channels used by d=
evices.&nbsp; Proactive knowledge will not be accurate.&nbsp; As I mentione=
d in the Paris
 meeting, devices can proactively report =93anticipated=94 use of channels =
to be all or a large subset of what the database allows (for that location)=
.&nbsp; As a matter of fact, a default reporting by devices would be =93all=
 channels=94; I don=92t think anyone can do anything
 about this without so much complexity added to enforce accuracy (something=
 we don=92t want to see =96 that is the complexity increasing on the device=
s side).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; colo=
r: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">As Gabor brings up=
, it is best that a device report last channels used (accurate info) as man=
datory plus anticipated channels (can be accurate or totally off)
 as optional.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Amer<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;=
 color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0p=
t;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> <a href=3D"mailto:=
paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bo=
unces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> <=
a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [p=
aws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Rep=
orting channels in use at the time or before the query could potentially be=
 done at the same time as reporting =91anticipated=92 usage, ie as part of =
the transaction
 of channel availability query. I think you are also arguing against the ac=
tual spectrum usage reporting then.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; ">So we should proceed with the charter update contain=
ing reporting the anticipated/intended/expected usage, and have a discussio=
n independent from this, on whether
 we want to have an additional requirement in the requirements document to =
also report past_usage/usage_since_last_query.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[=
if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Igno=
re">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: r=
gb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 12=
5); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><d=
iv style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0i=
n 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-famil=
y: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; fo=
nt-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> ext Peter Stanforth
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]">[mailto:peter@spectrum=
bridge.com]</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 1:59 PM<br><b>To:</=
b> Amer Hassan; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:ge=
rald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">
gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf=
.org">paws@ietf.org</a>; Paul Garnett<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter=
 update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10=
.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Amer,&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I th=
ink the intent was to have some more proactive knowledge. In the US radios =
only have to contact the DB once every 24 hours , or 48 if they encounter a=
 problem,
 so the information about what it did use is quite old by the time it infor=
ms the DB. I would agree to this from the perspective of it being better th=
an nothing but would not be my first choice, which would be what we have pr=
oposed.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; ">Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D"border:none;borde=
r-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "=
>Amer Hassan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com=
</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor=
.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gab=
or.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympat=
ico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geral=
d.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&gt;,
 Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spec=
trumbridge.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org"=
>paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;, Paul Garnett &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paulgar@microsoft.com">paulgar=
@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [paws] Charter update progres=
s<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; ">A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter=85</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cal=
ibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Consensus in the group (=
PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us a=
gree.&nbsp; There has been a lot of discussions on channel reporting
 from the device to the database on what channels the device will use or an=
ticipate to use (or something along this line).&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">However, for the su=
ggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make sense &nbsp;that
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(192, 0, 0); font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif; ">the TVWS device report back to the database the c=
hannels it had used since the last query</span></b><span style=3D"font-size=
: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">.&nbsp=
;
 This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in accomplishin=
g the goals for channel reporting than reporting =93anticipated=94 channel =
use.&nbsp; We think this is the right approach.</span><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Thoughts?</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;=
 color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span>=
<span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Best,<br>Amer and Paul</span><span style=3D"color:#040100=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11=
pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;bo=
rder-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color:=
 rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a href=3D"mailto:paws-b=
ounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@=
ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico=
.ca</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br=
><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subjec=
t:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#04010=
0"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-=
serif; ">Gerald,</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Pet=
er indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a problem=
 with anticipated usage.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I agree that the interference calculations need th=
e data about the actual usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement o=
f any regulator for the time being.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><=
span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibr=
i, sans-serif; ">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none=
;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family:=
 Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; colo=
r: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> ext Gerald Chouinard [=
<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">mailto:gerald.chouinard@sy=
mpatico.ca</a>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanf=
orth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailt=
o:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [paws] Charter up=
date progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color=
: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Pete, Gabor,</span><span style=3D=
"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-se=
rif; ">You may want to look at this from the regulators=92 point of view. &=
nbsp;For them, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or n=
ot. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot;
 or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal w=
ith. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can be d=
one properly. The =93real-time=94 aspect is another matter that has to do w=
ith the time granularity of the spectrum usage
 but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectati=
on of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spe=
ctrum is actually used or not.</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color:=
 navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">My two cents =85<=
/span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans=
-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-fa=
mily: Arial, sans-serif; ">Gerald</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; col=
or: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"ce=
nter" style=3D"text-align:center"><span style=3D"color:#040100"><hr size=3D=
"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>=
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Tahoma, s=
ans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(4, =
1, 0); font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ie=
tf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a><a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@iet=
f.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]</a><b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanfor=
th<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mail=
to:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws=
@ietf.org">
paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I am sorry if my last message &nbsp;cre=
ated/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to the wording we had, that =
Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of several
 people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not get=
 any indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &=
quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;</span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; ">Peter S.</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D=
"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sa=
ns-serif; ">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Ba=
jko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-=
serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Peter,</span=
></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11p=
t; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">The questio=
n is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want to report =
=91intended spectrum usage=92, that can possibly be done within the same
 transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we =
want to report the =91actual spectrum usage=92, that means that the protoco=
l will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contac=
ting the DB and reporting any change
 in spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to=
 know which features do we want to design.
</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font=
-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Some folks suggested anticipated/intended u=
sage, to hint that we do not need the protocol to send reports dynamically.=
 Since you oppose that wording, I guess
 you want =91actual usage=92 then, as that is the only alternative I could =
see. Can you confirm if that=92s what you want. We can ask if people on the=
 list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.</span></b><span style=3D"color:#=
040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I=
f not, then we won=92t have a charter update until we agree on this text, a=
nd consequently we can=92t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the =
Use Cases
 and Requirements draft.</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagr=
aph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-=
family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color=
:#040100">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11=
pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
1pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</s=
pan></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=
=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0=
); font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From: ext Peter Stanforth [<a href=3D=
"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
To: Pete Resnick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><=
br>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org"=
>paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Pete,</spa=
n></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I share your sentiments. A feedback loo=
p is very desirable but I don't think that the implication &nbsp;is well un=
derstood. So the charter should avoid defining
 what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some inpu=
t and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; ">Peter S.</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; col=
or: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><spa=
n style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D"border:=
none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
; ">From: Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnic=
k@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@s=
pectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">G=
abor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"=
>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws=
@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-=
serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy,<br><br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br><br>
pr<br><br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: </span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I =
still support my initial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to ch=
ange the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Report to
 the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granular=
ity&quot; to =93Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a suit=
able granularity=94.
</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri,=
 sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Regards</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b>=
<span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
; ">Andy</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D=
"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border=
-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use=
-text-color -moz-use-text-color"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 10pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">Fro=
m: Peter Stanforth [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:pete=
r@spectrumbridge.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">What is th=
e proposal?</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color=
: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D"border:no=
ne;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color=
:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span s=
tyle=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From: &quot;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a=
>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, =
1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor</span></b><span style=3D"c=
olor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><s=
pan style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp=
;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; ">There has been no reflector discussion since 24</spa=
n></b><b><sup><span style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-fa=
mily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">th</span></sup></b><b><span style=3D"color: rg=
b(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(4,=
 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D=
"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>=
<span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Tha=
nks</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"colo=
r: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><br><br><br></=
span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><b><span =
style=3D"color:#040100">-- </span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></=
o:p></span></pre><pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=
=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presni=
ck/&gt;</a></span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></pre=
><pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone=
: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</span></b><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></span></body></html>

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From: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:15:05 -0400
Thread-Topic: Charter update progress
Thread-Index: Ac0upolvFcPbFZmLRJCeV1CYZav7ZA==
Message-ID: <CBD12889.25036%peter@spectrumbridge.com>
In-Reply-To: <78E118FA97DE3A47881DF3E10C086EF107F1C4CB@CH1SDF0110MB368.namsdf01.sdf.exchangelabs.com>
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Subject: [paws] Charter update progress
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--_000_CBD1288925036peterspectrumbridgecom_
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Before Gabor threatens to shoot me let me repeat our position on this chart=
er update.
Spectrum Bridge is very much in favor of feedback loops.
If I was my decision to make I would go for devices reporting expected chan=
nel use in response to a channel list.
If the group prefers a "channels used" report in the next channel request w=
e would support that.
We would even support both, assuming they were equal (both mandatory or bot=
h optional).
What we are trying to avoid at this time is a real time recurring "channel =
in use" update. This is a huge burden.
We may end up there in the future, but if we do I want to be very certain t=
hat we know why and what that means.
Peter S.


--_000_CBD1288925036peterspectrumbridgecom_
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:=
 space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-si=
ze: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>Before Gabor threatens t=
o shoot me let me repeat our position on this charter update.</div><div>Spe=
ctrum Bridge is very much in favor of feedback loops.</div><div>If I was my=
 decision to make I would go for devices reporting expected channel use in =
response to a channel list.</div><div>If the group prefers a "channels used=
" report in the next channel request we would support that.</div><div>We wo=
uld even support both, assuming they were equal (both mandatory or both opt=
ional).</div><div>What we are trying to avoid at this time is a real time r=
ecurring "channel in use" update. This is a huge burden.</div><div>We may e=
nd up there in the future, but if we do I want to be very certain that we k=
now why and what that means.</div><div>Peter S.</div><div><br></div></body>=
</html>

--_000_CBD1288925036peterspectrumbridgecom_--

From Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com  Thu May 10 13:09:11 2012
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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Charter update progress
Thread-Index: AQHNLqaS4APKt3WZe0KEKQjTbvJ28JbDc2GA
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 20:09:03 +0000
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References: <78E118FA97DE3A47881DF3E10C086EF107F1C4CB@CH1SDF0110MB368.namsdf01.sdf.exchangelabs.com> <CBD12889.25036%peter@spectrumbridge.com>
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Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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--_000_1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EB9940008AM1MPN1007mg_
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It seems that we are in violent agreement that we want to have the capabili=
ty to report 'intended' usage, and not 'actual usage'.
Pete mentioned, that the charter update text containing 'intended' usage wa=
s submitted to the iesg, and will be discussed on May 24th. Pete does not s=
ee problems with the text which would prevent it being approved, so let's p=
roceed with the assumption that it will be approved.

With that, I think we can close the discussion on the scope of the WG, ever=
yone should have by now a good understanding of what's in the scope and wha=
t's not.

-              Gabor

From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:15 AM
To: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org
Subject: Charter update progress

Before Gabor threatens to shoot me let me repeat our position on this chart=
er update.
Spectrum Bridge is very much in favor of feedback loops.
If I was my decision to make I would go for devices reporting expected chan=
nel use in response to a channel list.
If the group prefers a "channels used" report in the next channel request w=
e would support that.
We would even support both, assuming they were equal (both mandatory or bot=
h optional).
What we are trying to avoid at this time is a real time recurring "channel =
in use" update. This is a huge burden.
We may end up there in the future, but if we do I want to be very certain t=
hat we know why and what that means.
Peter S.


--_000_1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EB9940008AM1MPN1007mg_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">It seems that we are in v=
iolent agreement that we want to have the capability to report &#8216;inten=
ded&#8217; usage, and not &#8216;actual usage&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Pete mentioned, that the =
charter update text containing &#8216;intended&#8217; usage was submitted t=
o the iesg, and will be discussed on May 24th. Pete does not see problems
 with the text which would prevent it being approved, so let&#8217;s procee=
d with the assumption that it will be approved.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">With that, I think we can=
 close the discussion on the scope of the WG, everyone should have by now a=
 good understanding of what&#8217;s in the scope and what&#8217;s not.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Gabor<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ext Pete=
r Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Before Gabor threatens to=
 shoot me let me repeat our position on this charter update.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Spectrum Bridge is very m=
uch in favor of feedback loops.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">If I was my decision to m=
ake I would go for devices reporting expected channel use in response to a =
channel list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">If the group prefers a &q=
uot;channels used&quot; report in the next channel request we would support=
 that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">We would even support bot=
h, assuming they were equal (both mandatory or both optional).<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">What we are trying to avo=
id at this time is a real time recurring &quot;channel in use&quot; update.=
 This is a huge burden.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">We may end up there in th=
e future, but if we do I want to be very certain that we know why and what =
that means.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EB9940008AM1MPN1007mg_--

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From: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca" <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>, "peter@spectrumbridge.com" <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
Thread-Index: Ac0pIfwl+HiHf7FeTue0VhSsY0N++AABbGoAAAA6j4AA2CWtgAADUo+AAAGZogAAAPStAABVi6QAAAeFOwAAAB3tQA==
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 19:15:13 +0000
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References: <1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EB8589@008-AM1MPN1-007.mgdnok.nokia.com> <CBCDC2F7.24B0D%peter@spectrumbridge.com> <BLU0-SMTP8756AB93B494962EB3195E7110@phx.gbl> <1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EB91F9@008-AM1MPN1-007.mgdnok.nokia.com>
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Cc: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter...

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pat=
tern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on channel re=
porting from the device to the database on what channels the device will us=
e or anticipate to use (or something along this line).

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make se=
nse  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had u=
sed since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is more accur=
ate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting "antici=
pated" channel use.  We think this is the right approach.

Thoughts?

Best,
Amer and Paul



From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gab=
or.Bajko@nokia.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; peter@spectrumbridge.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Gerald,

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a prob=
lem with anticipated usage.
I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual u=
sage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the t=
ime being.


-          Gabor

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete, Gabor,

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For them,=
 the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. "Anticipat=
ed", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are use to d=
eal with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can=
 be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another matter that has to do =
with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, the spec=
trum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using the spectrum is =
an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used or no=
t.

My two cents ...

Gerald

________________________________
From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Peter Sta=
nforth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; paws@ietf.org<mail=
to:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the sa=
me transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead w=
e want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol =
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacti=
ng the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during the=
ir operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to design=
.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I cou=
ld see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on th=
e list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, an=
d consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use=
 Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a su=
itable granularity".

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy




--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">A few comments on the cha=
nnel reporting part of the charter&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Consensus in the group (P=
AWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us ag=
ree.&nbsp; There has been a lot of discussions on channel reporting
 from the device to the database on what channels the device will use or an=
ticipate to use (or something along this line).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">However, for the suggeste=
d purpose of channel reporting it seems to make sense &nbsp;that
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">the TVWS device report back to the dat=
abase the channels it had used since the last query</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1F497D">.&nbsp;
 This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in accomplishin=
g the goals for channel reporting than reporting &#8220;anticipated&#8221; =
channel use.&nbsp; We think this is the right approach.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best,<br>
Amer and Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> paws-b=
ounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; peter@spectrumbridge.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> paws@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gerald,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter indicated in his em=
ail that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a problem with anticipated usag=
e.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I agree that the interfer=
ence calculations need the data about the actual usage, but this does not s=
eem to be a requirement of any regulator for the time being.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ext Gera=
ld Chouinard [<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">mailto:geral=
d.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Pete, Gabor,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">You may want to look at this f=
rom the regulators&#8217; point of view. &nbsp;For them, the only thing tha=
t counts is that the spectrum is used or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quo=
t;intended&quot;
 or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal w=
ith. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can be d=
one properly. The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter that has=
 to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage
 but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectati=
on of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spe=
ctrum is actually used or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">My two cents &#8230;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Gerald<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">
[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">
paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I am sorry if my last mes=
sage &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to the wording=
 we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of several
 people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not get=
 any indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &=
quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko=
@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Baj=
ko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter,</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The question is what f=
eatures do we want the protocol to have. If we want to report &#8216;intend=
ed spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly be done within the same
 transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we =
want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum usage&#8217;, that means that the=
 protocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomousl=
y contacting the DB and reporting any change
 in spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to=
 know which features do we want to design.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Some folks suggested a=
nticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need the protocol to send=
 reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I guess
 you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is the only alternative =
I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what you want. We can ask if p=
eople on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.</span><span style=3D=
"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If not, then we won&#8=
217;t have a charter update until we agree on this text, and consequently w=
e can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use Cases
 and Requirements draft.</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<sp=
an style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor</span><s=
pan style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: ext Peter Stanfor=
th [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge=
.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
To: Pete Resnick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><=
br>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org"=
>paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
span></b></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Pete,</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I share your sentiment=
s. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think that the implication=
 &nbsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid defining
 what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some inpu=
t and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@s=
pectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">G=
abor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"=
>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws=
@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy,<br>
<br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: </span>
<span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor may have a combined view of the p=
roposals - I still support my initial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, wh=
ich was to change the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Report to
 the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granular=
ity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a =
suitable granularity&#8221;.
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Andy</span><span style=3D"color:#040100=
"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: Peter Stanforth [=
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com=
</a>]
<br>
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
span></b></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">What is the proposal?<=
/span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@b=
t.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">a=
ndy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a=
>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"=
><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Gabor</span><span style=3D"color:#04010=
0"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">There has been no reflector discussion =
since 24</span></b><b><sup><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">th</span></sup></b><b>=
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#040100">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Thanks</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#0401=
00"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy</span><span style=3D"color:#040100=
"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
#040100"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">-- <o:p></o:p></span></b></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http://www.qu=
alcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a><o:p><=
/o:p></span></b></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone:=
 (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102<o:p></o:p></span></b></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: <amerh@microsoft.com>, <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>, <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:57:51 +0100
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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Gabor and group

I don't know where this requirement has come from. I don't think that FCC r=
equires usage information, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK case. Ofc=
om requires usage information before the base station transmits - hence why=
 the charter update uses the language about 'anticipated' usage. Ofcom hasn=
't said it will be acceptable to provide the information several hours late=
r with the next channel request, so I don't think Amer's suggestion will ad=
dress the regulatory requirement. For clarity I have again copied the lates=
t draft Ofcom regulation below:

3.19 After receiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum pe=
rmitted EIRPs over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating transmissions =
within the UHF TV band, a master WSD must successfully communicate to the W=
SDB the following information:

3.19.1 The lower and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block emissio=
ns of the master WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of its associated=
 slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1n) MHz, with=
 the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1m) MHz, wher=
e 0 =98 k =98 39, 0 =98 n =98 79, 1 =98 m =98 80, and n < m.
3.19.2 The maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, specified in units of =
dBm/(0.1 MHz), that the master WSD and its associated slaves actually radia=
te between each reported lower frequency boundary and its corresponding upp=
er frequency boundary.

The footnote [18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency boundaries=
 (defined over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more granular inf=
ormation with regards to the usage of the frequency resource by narrowband =
WSD technologies. The upper and lower frequencies of a boundary pair do not=
 straddle a DTT channel boundary. Note that a WSD may transmit over multipl=
e, non-contiguous, whole DTT channels or fractions of DTT channels.

Regards

Andy

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ame=
r Hassan
Sent: 09 May 2012 20:15
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; peter@spectrumbri=
dge.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter...

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pat=
tern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on channel re=
porting from the device to the database on what channels the device will us=
e or anticipate to use (or something along this line).

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make se=
nse  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had u=
sed since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is more accur=
ate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting "antici=
pated" channel use.  We think this is the right approach.

Thoughts?

Best,
Amer and Paul



From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Gabor.Baj=
ko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>; pe=
ter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Gerald,

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a prob=
lem with anticipated usage.
I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual u=
sage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the t=
ime being.


-          Gabor

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete, Gabor,

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For them,=
 the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. "Anticipat=
ed", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are use to d=
eal with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can=
 be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another matter that has to do =
with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, the spec=
trum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using the spectrum is =
an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used or no=
t.

My two cents ...

Gerald

________________________________
From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Peter Sta=
nforth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; paws@ietf.org<mail=
to:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the sa=
me transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead w=
e want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol =
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacti=
ng the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during the=
ir operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to design=
.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I cou=
ld see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on th=
e list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, an=
d consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use=
 Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a su=
itable granularity".

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy



--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor and group<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don&#8217;t =
know where this requirement has come from. I don&#8217;t think that FCC req=
uires usage information, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK case. Ofcom=
 requires usage information before the base station transmits &#8211; hence=
 why the charter update uses the language about &#8216;anticipated&#8217; u=
sage. Ofcom hasn&#8217;t said it will be acceptable to provide the informat=
ion several hours later with the next channel request, so I don&#8217;t thi=
nk Amer&#8217;s suggestion will address the regulatory requirement. For cla=
rity I have again copied the latest draft Ofcom regulation below:<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19 After re=
ceiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum permitted EIRPs=
 over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating transmissions within the UH=
F TV band, a master WSD must successfully communicate to the WSDB the follo=
wing information:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19.1 The lower and upper frequ=
ency boundaries[18] of the in-block emissions of the master WSD, and those =
of the in-block emissions of its associated slaves. A lower frequency will =
be specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1n) MHz, with the corresponding upper frequen=
cy specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1m) MHz, where 0 =98 k =98 39, 0 =98 n =98 79=
, 1 =98 m =98 80, and n &lt; m.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D'>3.19.2 The maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, spec=
ified in units of dBm/(0.1 MHz), that the master WSD and its associated sla=
ves actually radiate between each reported lower frequency boundary and its=
 corresponding upper frequency boundary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The footn=
ote [18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency boundaries (defined=
 over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more granular information =
with regards to the usage of the frequency resource by narrowband WSD techn=
ologies. The upper and lower frequencies of a boundary pair do not straddle=
 a DTT channel boundary. Note that a WSD may transmit over multiple, non-co=
ntiguous, whole DTT channels or fractions of DTT channels.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:=
none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DM=
soNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahom=
a","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-b=
ounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Amer Hassan<br><b>Sent:</b> 09 May 201=
2 20:15<br><b>To:</b> Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca;=
 peter@spectrumbridge.com<br><b>Cc:</b> paws@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re=
: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter&#8230;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Consensus in the group (PAW=
S) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us agre=
e.&nbsp; There has been a lot of discussions on channel reporting from the =
device to the database on what channels the device will use or anticipate t=
o use (or something along this line).&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>However, for the suggested purpose of channel re=
porting it seems to make sense &nbsp;that </span><b><span lang=3DEN-US styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C00000'>the=
 TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had used since the=
 last query</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>.&nbsp; This requirement is simpl=
e, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in accomplishing the goals for channel re=
porting than reporting &#8220;anticipated&#8221; channel use.&nbsp; We thin=
k this is the right approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'>Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'>Best,<br>Amer and Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:s=
olid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'=
>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif"'> <a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:p=
aws-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko=
@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 20=
12 11:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">=
gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.=
org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progres=
s<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gera=
ld,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Peter indicated=
 in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a problem with antici=
pated usage. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual =
usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the =
time being. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-inden=
t:-18.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; </span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'borde=
r:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"T=
ahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ext Gerald Chouinard [<a href=3D=
"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca=
</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Peter=
 Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D=
"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [paws] Char=
ter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span la=
ng=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color=
:navy'>Pete, Gabor,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3D=
EN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>You may w=
ant to look at this from the regulators&#8217; point of view. &nbsp;For the=
m, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. &quot;An=
ticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not =
something that they are use to deal with. It is being used or not so that t=
he interference calculations can be done properly. The &#8220;real-time&#82=
21; aspect is another matter that has to do with the time granularity of th=
e spectrum usage but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intent=
ion or expectation of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to=
 whether the spectrum is actually used or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
al","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-s=
erif";color:navy'>My two cents &#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","san=
s-serif";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";co=
lor:navy'>Gerald<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=
=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=
=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span l=
ang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <=
a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]</=
a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 May, 2012=
 18:28<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@n=
okia.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subj=
ect:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>I am sorry if =
my last message &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to =
the wording we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of sever=
al people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not g=
et any indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;,=
 &quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Peter S.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid =
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: &qu=
ot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;=
<br>To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [paw=
s] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p></div><div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Peter,</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US styl=
e=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=
color:#1F497D'>The question is what features do we want the protocol to hav=
e. If we want to report &#8216;intended spectrum usage&#8217;, that can pos=
sibly be done within the same transaction as the query/response for channel=
 availability. If instead we want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum usag=
e&#8217;, that means that the protocol will need to have the capability to =
allow the clients autonomously contacting the DB and reporting any change i=
n spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to k=
now which features do we want to design. </span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US s=
tyle=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D'>Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint =
that we do not need the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you opp=
ose that wording, I guess you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that=
 is the only alternative I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what =
you want. We can ask if people on the list agree with this. If yes, then bi=
ngo.</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If not, then we won=
&#8217;t have a charter update until we agree on this text, and consequentl=
y we can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use Cases =
and Requirements draft.</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040=
100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p><=
/span></b></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>=
-</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#040100'>&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><b><span lang=3DEN-US=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'>Gabor</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></b=
><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D=
EN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'co=
lor:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;borde=
r-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-s=
erif";color:#040100'>From: ext Peter Stanforth [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spe=
ctrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>] <br>Sent: Monday, May=
 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>To: Pete Resnick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">=
andy.sago@bt.com</a><br>Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=
=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [paws] Charter =
update progress</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:=
p></o:p></span></b></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Pete,</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US styl=
e=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","s=
ans-serif";color:#040100'>I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very =
desirable but I don't think that the implication &nbsp;is well understood. =
So the charter should avoid defining what or how it would be provided until=
 we have had chance to get some input and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;=
</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</b></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Peter S.</sp=
an></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b=
><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></=
div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>To: &quot;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt=
;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>=
&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</=
a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [paw=
s] Charter update progress</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#=
040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100=
'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span l=
ang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#040100'>Andy,<br><br>As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spe=
ctrum usage&quot; sounds like it may involve a dynamically updating process=
 such that any change in spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to=
 be reported to the database. That is a *much* larger change than was propo=
sed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;. I al=
so thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable compro=
mise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there are s=
everal folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the list. If =
you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG=
 with your text.<br><br>pr<br><br>On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy=
.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a> wrote: </span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'>Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my init=
ial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet p=
oint 5 from &quot;Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum u=
sage at a suitable granularity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the=
 white space database at a suitable granularity&#8221;. </span></b><b><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#0401=
00'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span></b>=
<b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'col=
or:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3D=
EN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy</span=
></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nb=
sp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></b></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt=
;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-c=
olor'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100'>From: Peter Stanforth [<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com</a=
>] <br>Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto=
:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@i=
etf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</=
span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></=
b></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color=
:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#040100'>What is the proposal?</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'co=
lor:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div style=3D'border:none;bord=
er-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:-moz-u=
se-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>To: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paw=
s@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: [paws] Charter update progres=
s</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span=
></b></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</spa=
n></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b><=
/p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D=
'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Gabor</span></b><b><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0401=
00'>There has been no reflector discussion since 24</span></b><b><sup><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#040100'>th</span></sup></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'> April UK time. Can we now submit th=
e charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?</span></b><b>=
<span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US styl=
e=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:=
#040100'>Thanks</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:=
p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Andy</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div></div></div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D=
'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'><br><br=
></span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span=
></b></p><pre><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'>-- <o:p></o:p><=
/span></b></pre><pre><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#040100'>Pete Res=
nick <a href=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm=
.com/~presnick/&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></span></b></pre><pre><b><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'color:#040100'>Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4=
478, Fax: (858)651-1102<o:p></o:p></span></b></pre></div></div></div></div>=
</div></body></html>=

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From: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>, "amerh@microsoft.com" <amerh@microsoft.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>,  "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca" <gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 08:41:30 -0400
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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it-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-size: 14px; fon=
t-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>There is no FCC requirement to provid=
e channel use information from a WSD. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><span id=
=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:12pt=
; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: me=
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ER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><sp=
an style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sa=
go@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.co=
m">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>=
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&gt;, &q=
uot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt=
;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@=
sympatico.ca</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca"=
>gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&gt;, Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;<br><span styl=
e=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">p=
aws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</=
a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> RE: [paws] Char=
ter update progress<br></div><div><br></div><div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-mic=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor and =
group<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I don=A1=AFt know where this requirement has co=
me from. I don=A1=AFt think that FCC requires usage information, so I presu=
me Amer is addressing the UK case. Ofcom requires usage information
 before the base station transmits =A8C hence why the charter update uses t=
he language about =A1=AEanticipated=A1=AF usage. Ofcom hasn=A1=AFt said it =
will be acceptable to provide the information several hours later with the =
next channel request, so I don=A1=AFt think Amer=A1=AFs suggestion
 will address the regulatory requirement. For clarity I have again copied t=
he latest draft Ofcom regulation below:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">3.19 After re=
ceiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum permitted EIRPs=
 over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating transmissions within the UH=
F TV band,
 a master WSD must successfully communicate to the WSDB the following infor=
mation:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: r=
gb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"co=
lor: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">3.19.1 The lower=
 and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block emissions of the master=
 WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of its associated
 slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 &#43; 8k &#43; 0.1n) M=
Hz, with the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470 &#43; 8k &#43;=
 0.1m) MHz, where 0 =A1=DC k =A1=DC 39, 0 =A1=DC n =A1=DC 79, 1 =A1=DC m =
=A1=DC 80, and n &lt; m.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; ">3.19.2 The maximum in-block EIRP spectral densitie=
s, specified in units of dBm/(0.1 MHz), that the master WSD and its associa=
ted slaves actually radiate
 between each reported lower frequency boundary and its corresponding upper=
 frequency boundary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cal=
ibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">The=
 footnote [18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency boundaries (d=
efined over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more granular inform=
ation with regards to
 the usage of the frequency resource by narrowband WSD technologies. The up=
per and lower frequencies of a boundary pair do not straddle a DTT channel =
boundary. Note that a WSD may transmit over multiple, non-contiguous, whole=
 DTT channels or fractions of DTT
 channels.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); fon=
t-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, san=
s-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 12=
5); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><d=
iv style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0c=
m 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 1=
0pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> <a href=3D"=
mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:=
paws-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Amer Hassan<br><b>Sent:</b> 09 May 2012 20:15<br><b>To:=
</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.c=
a</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com=
</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b=
>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div=
></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font=
-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">A few comments on the channel reporting par=
t of the charter=A1=AD<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there =
is need for TVWS channel usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us agree.&nbsp; There=
 has been a lot of discussions on channel reporting from the device to the =
database on what channels the device will use or anticipate to use (or some=
thing along this line).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;=
 "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sa=
ns-serif; ">However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seem=
s to make sense &nbsp;that
</span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(192, 0,=
 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">the TVWS device report back to the=
 database the channels it had used since the last query</span></b><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; ">.&nbsp;
 This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in accomplishin=
g the goals for channel reporting than reporting =A1=B0anticipated=A1=B1 ch=
annel use.&nbsp; We think this is the right approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11=
pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Thoughts?<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, san=
s-serif; ">Best,<br>
Amer and Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div sty=
le=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a href=3D"mailt=
o:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailt=
o:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">
[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:Ga=
bor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, M=
ay 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympa=
tico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br=
><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subjec=
t:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: r=
gb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gerald,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s=
ize: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Pet=
er indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a problem=
 with anticipated usage.
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;=
 ">I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actua=
l usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for
 the time being. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cal=
ibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagrap=
h" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 1=
1pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">-</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 12=
5); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31=
, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0p=
t 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font=
-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> ex=
t Gerald Chouinard [<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">mailto=
:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanf=
orth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailt=
o:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [paws] Charter up=
date progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, san=
s-serif; ">Pete, Gabor,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sa=
ns-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-=
serif; ">You may want to look at this from the regulators=A1=AF point of vi=
ew. &nbsp;For them, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used=
 or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;,
 &quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that t=
hey are use to deal with. It is being used or not so that the interference =
calculations can be done properly. The =A1=B0real-time=A1=B1 aspect is anot=
her matter that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum
 usage but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or exp=
ectation of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether t=
he spectrum is actually used or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-fami=
ly: Arial, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: A=
rial, sans-serif; ">My two cents =A1=AD<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-f=
amily: Arial, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family=
: Arial, sans-serif; ">Gerald<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Ari=
al, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><hr size=
=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans=
-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; fo=
nt-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">p=
aws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">
[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br><=
b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabo=
r.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg">
paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); fon=
t-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I am sorry if my last message &nbsp;create=
d/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to the wording we had, that Pet=
e quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one
 of several people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I =
did not get any indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipat=
ed&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, s=
ans-serif; ">Peter S.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); fon=
t-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div sty=
le=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black; font=
-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@n=
okia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko=
@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11.=
5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></b></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; ">Peter,</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; ">The question is what features do we want the protocol to=
 have. If we want to report =A1=AEintended spectrum usage=A1=AF, that can p=
ossibly be done within
 the same transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If in=
stead we want to report the =A1=AEactual spectrum usage=A1=AF, that means t=
hat the protocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients auto=
nomously contacting the DB and reporting any
 change in spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may =
want to know which features do we want to design.
</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Some f=
olks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need the =
protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that
 wording, I guess you want =A1=AEactual usage=A1=AF then, as that is the on=
ly alternative I could see. Can you confirm if that=A1=AFs what you want. W=
e can ask if people on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.</span>=
</b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;=
 color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">If not, then =
we won=A1=AFt have a charter update until we agree on this text, and conseq=
uently we can=A1=AFt include the Ofcom reporting requirements
 to the Use Cases and Requirements draft.</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoListParag=
raph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rg=
b(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">-</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#040100">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73,=
 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor</span></b><b><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><div style=
=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; col=
or: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From: ext Peter Stanfo=
rth [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridg=
e.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
To: Pete Resnick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><=
br>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org"=
>paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div></div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></b></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif; ">Pete,</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p=
></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri,=
 sans-serif; ">I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable b=
ut I don't think that the implication &nbsp;is well understood. So the char=
ter should
 avoid defining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance t=
o get some input and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</span></b><b><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Peter S.</span></b=
><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;<=
/span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span=
></b></p></div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;pad=
ding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From: Pete Resnick &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@s=
pectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">G=
abor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"=
>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws=
@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(=
4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5p=
t; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy,<br><br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br><br>
pr<br><br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: </span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o=
:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor may have =
a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial proposal of A=
pril 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from
 &quot;Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a s=
uitable granularity&quot; to =A1=B0Report spectrum usage to the white space=
 database at a suitable granularity=A1=B1.
</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Regards</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:=
#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
">Andy</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p=
></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b>=
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><div style=3D=
"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;bo=
rder-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font=
-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From: Peter Stanforth [<a href=3D"mailto:pet=
er@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div></div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></b></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif; ">What is the proposal?</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"col=
or:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-=
family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div style=3D"border:n=
one;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-colo=
r:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">F=
rom: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>To: &quo=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;,=
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1=
, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1=
, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Gabor</span></b><b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-=
family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; ">There has been no reflector discussion since 24</span>=
</b><b><sup><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1=
, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">th</span></sup></b><b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#04=
0100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-ser=
if; ">&nbsp;</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p=
></o:p></span></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Than=
ks</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><=
/b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:=
 rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Andy</span></b><b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div></di=
v></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; "><br><br></span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"co=
lor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><pre><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"color:#040100">-- <o:p></o:p></span></b></pre><pre><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com=
/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></pre><pre><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm I=
ncorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></pre></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></body></htm=
l>

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Message-ID: <4FAD112E.40209@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 09:16:30 -0400
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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To: Amer Hassan <amerh@microsoft.com>
References: <1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EB8589@008-AM1MPN1-007.mgdnok.nokia.com> <CBCDC2F7.24B0D%peter@spectrumbridge.com> <BLU0-SMTP8756AB93B494962EB3195E7110@phx.gbl> <1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EB91F9@008-AM1MPN1-007.mgdnok.nokia.com> <78E118FA97DE3A47881DF3E10C086EF107F1B49B@CH1SDF0110MB368.namsdf01.sdf.exchangelabs.com>
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Cc: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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As a participant who has been trying to understand this aspect of the 
discussion, I have to say that I don't think I saw anything like rough 
consensus on such a reporting requirement.
And I would consider it a major addition to our work plan.

Can we finish the first part of the work before we debate new work items?

Yours,
Joel

On 5/9/2012 3:15 PM, Amer Hassan wrote:
> A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter…
>
> Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage
> pattern. Most of us agree. There has been a lot of discussions on
> channel reporting from the device to the database on what channels the
> device will use or anticipate to use (or something along this line).
>
> However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make
> sense that *the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it
> had used since the last query*. This requirement is simple, AND it is
> more accurate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than
> reporting “anticipated” channel use. We think this is the right approach.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Best,
> Amer and Paul
>
> *From:*paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
> *To:* gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; peter@spectrumbridge.com
> *Cc:* paws@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [paws] Charter update progress
>
> Gerald,
>
> Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a
> problem with anticipated usage.
>
> I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the
> actual usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any
> regulator for the time being.
>
> -Gabor
>
> *From:*ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
> *To:* 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
> *Cc:* paws@ietf.org <mailto:paws@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [paws] Charter update progress
>
> Pete, Gabor,
>
> You may want to look at this from the regulators’ point of view. For
> them, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not.
> "Anticipated", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they
> are use to deal with. It is being used or not so that the interference
> calculations can be done properly. The “real-time” aspect is another
> matter that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage
> but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or
> expectation of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to
> whether the spectrum is actually used or not.
>
> My two cents …
>
> Gerald
>
> *From:*paws-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org>
> [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]>
> *On Behalf Of *Peter Stanforth
> *Sent:* Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
> *To:* Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>;
> paws@ietf.org <mailto:paws@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [paws] Charter update progress
>
> I am sorry if my last message created/added to the confusion. I was not
> opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted. I know that I was one
> of several people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for,
> I did not get any indication that our proposed language using
> "anticipated", "intended" or "expected" was a problem.
>
> Peter S.
>
> *From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>"
> <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
> To: "paws@ietf.org <mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org
> <mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress *
>
> **
>
> *Peter,*
>
> **
>
> *The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we
> want to report ‘intended spectrum usage’, that can possibly be done
> within the same transaction as the query/response for channel
> availability. If instead we want to report the ‘actual spectrum usage’,
> that means that the protocol will need to have the capability to allow
> the clients autonomously contacting the DB and reporting any change in
> spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to
> know which features do we want to design. *
>
> *Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not
> need the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that
> wording, I guess you want ‘actual usage’ then, as that is the only
> alternative I could see. Can you confirm if that’s what you want. We can
> ask if people on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.*
>
> *If not, then we won’t have a charter update until we agree on this
> text, and consequently we can’t include the Ofcom reporting requirements
> to the Use Cases and Requirements draft.*
>
> **
>
> -*Gabor*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
> To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
> Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org
> <mailto:paws@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress*
>
> **
>
> *Pete,*
>
> *I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't
> think that the implication is well understood. So the charter should
> avoid defining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance
> to get some input and contributions on the issue. *
>
> *Peter S.*
>
> **
>
> *From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com <mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
> To: "andy.sago@bt.com <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com
> <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>>
> Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com
> <mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com
> <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com
> <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org <mailto:paws@ietf.org>"
> <paws@ietf.org <mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress*
>
> **
>
> *Andy,
>
> As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it
> may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in
> spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the
> database. That is a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why
> we had it as "anticipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended
> spectrum usage" was a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage"
> is problematic, and there are several folks who do not agree with this
> change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase,
> that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your text.
>
> pr
>
> On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote: *
>
> *Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my
> initial proposal of April 15^th , which was to change the new bullet
> point 5 from "Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum
> usage at a suitable granularity" to “Report spectrum usage to the white
> space database at a suitable granularity”. *
>
> **
>
> *Regards*
>
> **
>
> *Andy*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
> Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
> To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com
> <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; paws@ietf.org <mailto:paws@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress*
>
> **
>
> *What is the proposal?*
>
> **
>
> *From: "andy.sago@bt.com <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com
> <mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>>
> To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>"
> <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com <mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org
> <mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org <mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
> Subject: [paws] Charter update progress*
>
> **
>
> *Gabor*
>
> **
>
> *There has been no reflector discussion since 24**^th **April UK time.
> Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already
> happened?*
>
> **
>
> *Thanks*
>
> **
>
> *Andy*
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *--*
>
> *Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>   *
>
> *Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102*
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> paws mailing list
> paws@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws

From JuanCarlos.Zuniga@InterDigital.com  Fri May 11 07:18:08 2012
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Thanks Andy and Peter for clarifying the Regulatory requirements. This =
should be enough to clear the lack of understanding and allow us to move =
forward.

=20

Juan Carlos

=20

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Peter Stanforth
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 8:42 AM
To: andy.sago@bt.com; amerh@microsoft.com; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; =
gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

There is no FCC requirement to provide channel use information from a =
WSD. =20

=20

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "amerh@microsoft.com" <amerh@microsoft.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" =
<Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca" =
<gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>, Peter Stanforth =
<peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Gabor and group

=20

I don't know where this requirement has come from. I don't think that =
FCC requires usage information, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK =
case. Ofcom requires usage information before the base station transmits =
- hence why the charter update uses the language about 'anticipated' =
usage. Ofcom hasn't said it will be acceptable to provide the =
information several hours later with the next channel request, so I =
don't think Amer's suggestion will address the regulatory requirement. =
For clarity I have again copied the latest draft Ofcom regulation below:

=20

3.19 After receiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum =
permitted EIRPs over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating =
transmissions within the UHF TV band, a master WSD must successfully =
communicate to the WSDB the following information:

=20

3.19.1 The lower and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block =
emissions of the master WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of its =
associated slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 + 8k + =
0.1n) MHz, with the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470 + 8k =
+ 0.1m) MHz, where 0 =98 k =98 39, 0 =98 n =98 79, 1 =98 m =98 80, and n =
< m.

3.19.2 The maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, specified in units =
of dBm/(0.1 MHz), that the master WSD and its associated slaves actually =
radiate between each reported lower frequency boundary and its =
corresponding upper frequency boundary.

=20

The footnote [18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency =
boundaries (defined over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more =
granular information with regards to the usage of the frequency resource =
by narrowband WSD technologies. The upper and lower frequencies of a =
boundary pair do not straddle a DTT channel boundary. Note that a WSD =
may transmit over multiple, non-contiguous, whole DTT channels or =
fractions of DTT channels.

=20

Regards

=20

Andy

=20

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Amer Hassan
Sent: 09 May 2012 20:15
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; =
peter@spectrumbridge.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter...

=20

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage =
pattern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on =
channel reporting from the device to the database on what channels the =
device will use or anticipate to use (or something along this line). =20

=20

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make =
sense  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it =
had used since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is =
more accurate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than =
reporting "anticipated" channel use.  We think this is the right =
approach.

=20

Thoughts?

=20

Best,
Amer and Paul

=20

=20

=20

From:paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; peter@spectrumbridge.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Gerald,

=20

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a =
problem with anticipated usage.=20

I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the =
actual usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any =
regulator for the time being.=20

=20

-          Gabor

=20

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Pete, Gabor,

=20

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For =
them, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. =
"Anticipated", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they =
are use to deal with. It is being used or not so that the interference =
calculations can be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another =
matter that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage =
but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or =
expectation of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to =
whether the spectrum is actually used or not.

=20

My two cents ...

=20

Gerald

=20

________________________________

From:paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Peter Stanforth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not =
opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one =
of several people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, =
I did not get any indication that our proposed language using =
"anticipated", "intended" or "expected" was a problem. =20

Peter S.

=20

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Peter,

=20

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we =
want to report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done =
within the same transaction as the query/response for channel =
availability. If instead we want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', =
that means that the protocol will need to have the capability to allow =
the clients autonomously contacting the DB and reporting any change in =
spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to =
know which features do we want to design.=20

Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not =
need the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that =
wording, I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only =
alternative I could see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can =
ask if people on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.

If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, =
and consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to =
the Use Cases and Requirements draft.

=20

-          Gabor

=20

=20

=20

From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]=20
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Pete,

I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't =
think that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should =
avoid defining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance =
to get some input and contributions on the issue.=20

Peter S.

=20

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" =
<Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it =
may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in =
spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the =
database. That is a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why =
we had it as "anticipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended =
spectrum usage" was a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" =
is problematic, and there are several folks who do not agree with this =
change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, =
that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com wrote:=20

Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my =
initial proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point =
5 from "Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at =
a suitable granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space =
database at a suitable granularity".=20

=20

Regards

=20

Andy

=20

=20

From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]=20
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

What is the proposal?

=20

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" =
<paws@ietf.org>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Gabor

=20

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we =
now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already =
happened?

=20

Thanks

=20

Andy






--=20
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/> =
<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>=20
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks Andy and Peter for clarifying the Regulatory requirements. =
This should be enough to clear the lack of understanding and allow us to =
move forward.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Juan Carlos<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Peter Stanforth<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2012 8:42 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> andy.sago@bt.com; amerh@microsoft.com; =
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<br><b>Cc:</b> =
paws@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update =
progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>There is no FCC requirement to provide channel use information from a =
WSD. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: =
</b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>&gt;, Peter Stanforth &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;=
<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>RE: [paws] Charter update =
progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor and =
group</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don&#8217;t =
know where this requirement has come from. I don&#8217;t think that FCC =
requires usage information, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK case. =
Ofcom requires usage information before the base station transmits =
&#8211; hence why the charter update uses the language about =
&#8216;anticipated&#8217; usage. Ofcom hasn&#8217;t said it will be =
acceptable to provide the information several hours later with the next =
channel request, so I don&#8217;t think Amer&#8217;s suggestion will =
address the regulatory requirement. For clarity I have again copied the =
latest draft Ofcom regulation below:</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19 After =
receiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum permitted =
EIRPs over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating transmissions =
within the UHF TV band, a master WSD must successfully communicate to =
the WSDB the following information:</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19.1 The =
lower and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block emissions of =
the master WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of its associated =
slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1n) MHz, =
with the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1m) =
MHz, where 0 =98 k =98 39, 0 =98 n =98 79, 1 =98 m =98 80, and n &lt; =
m.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19.2 The =
maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, specified in units of dBm/(0.1 =
MHz), that the master WSD and its associated slaves actually radiate =
between each reported lower frequency boundary and its corresponding =
upper frequency boundary.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The footnote =
[18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency boundaries (defined =
over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more granular =
information with regards to the usage of the frequency resource by =
narrowband WSD technologies. The upper and lower frequencies of a =
boundary pair do not straddle a DTT channel boundary. Note that a WSD =
may transmit over multiple, non-contiguous, whole DTT channels or =
fractions of DTT channels.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span>=
<span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy</span><sp=
an lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'> <a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Amer Hassan<br><b>Sent:</b> 09 May 2012 =
20:15<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br>=
<b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>A few comments on the channel reporting part of the =
charter&#8230;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel =
usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us agree.&nbsp; There has been a lot of =
discussions on channel reporting from the device to the database on what =
channels the device will use or anticipate to use (or something along =
this line).&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to =
make sense &nbsp;that </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
0'>the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had used =
since the last query</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>.&nbsp; This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in =
accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting =
&#8220;anticipated&#8221; channel use.&nbsp; We think this is the right =
approach.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thoughts?</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best,<br>Amer and Paul</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a><br><b>Sen=
t:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br>=
<b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gerald,</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have =
a problem with anticipated usage. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the =
actual usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any =
regulator for the time being. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>-</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gabor</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'> ext Gerald Chouinard [<a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">mailto:gerald.chouinard@sym=
patico.ca</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor =
(Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Pe=
te, Gabor,</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Yo=
u may want to look at this from the regulators&#8217; point of view. =
&nbsp;For them, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used =
or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; or =
&quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal =
with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can =
be done properly. The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter =
that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at =
any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectation of =
using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the =
spectrum is actually used or not.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>My=
 two cents &#8230;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Ge=
rald</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 =
May, 2012 18:28<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>I am sorry if my last message &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I =
was not opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know =
that I was one of several people that asked Ofcom directly what they =
were looking for, I did not get any indication that our proposed =
language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; or =
&quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Peter S.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>To=
: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Peter,</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we =
want to report &#8216;intended spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly =
be done within the same transaction as the query/response for channel =
availability. If instead we want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum =
usage&#8217;, that means that the protocol will need to have the =
capability to allow the clients autonomously contacting the DB and =
reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during their =
operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to =
design. </span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do =
not need the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that =
wording, I guess you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is =
the only alternative I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what =
you want. We can ask if people on the list agree with this. If yes, then =
bingo.</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If not, then we won&#8217;t have a charter update until we agree on =
this text, and consequently we can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting =
requirements to the Use Cases and Requirements draft.</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>-</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#040100'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gabor</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From: ext Peter Stanforth [<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>] <br>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>To: Pete Resnick; <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><br>Cc: Bajko Gabor =
(Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [paws] =
Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Pete,</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I =
don't think that the implication &nbsp;is well understood. So the =
charter should avoid defining what or how it would be provided until we =
have had chance to get some input and contributions on the =
issue.&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Peter S.</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: Pete =
Resnick &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>To=
: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>Cc: =
Peter Stanforth &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;=
, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Andy,<br><br>As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum =
usage&quot; sounds like it may involve a dynamically updating process =
such that any change in spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs =
to be reported to the database. That is a *much* larger change than was =
proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum =
usage&quot;. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is =
problematic, and there are several folks who do not agree with this =
change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, =
that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your =
text.<br><br>pr<br><br>On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a> wrote: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor may =
have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial =
proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet =
point 5 from &quot;Report to the white space database anticipated =
spectrum usage at a suitable granularity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum =
usage to the white space database at a suitable granularity&#8221;. =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy</span></b=
><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From: Peter Stanforth [<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>] <br>Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [paws] =
Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>What is the proposal?</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>To: =
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: [paws] =
Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Gabor</span></=
b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>There has =
been no reflector discussion since 24</span></b><b><sup><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>th</span></sup></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'> April UK =
time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that =
already happened?</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Thanks</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Andy</span></b=
><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><br><br><br></span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>-- </span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>Pete Resnick <a =
href=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/&gt;</a></span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: =
(858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></body></html>
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Subject: [paws] I-D Action: draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Protocol to Access WS database Workin=
g Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Protocol to Access White Space database: PS, use cases a=
nd rqmts
	Author(s)       : Scott Probasco
                          Basavaraj Patil
	Filename        : draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.txt
	Pages           : 42
	Date            : 2012-05-11

   Portions of the radio spectrum that are assigned to a particular use
   but are unused or unoccupied at specific locations and times are
   defined as "white space".  The concept of allowing additional
   transmissions (which may or may not be licensed) in white space is a
   technique to "unlock" existing spectrum for new use.  An obvious
   requirement is that these additional transmissions do not interfere
   with the assigned use of the spectrum.  One approach to using the
   white space spectrum at a given time and location is to verify with a
   database for available channels.

   This document describes the concept of TV White Spaces.  It also
   describes the problems that need to be addressed to enable white
   space spectrum for additional uses, without causing interference to
   currently assigned use, by querying a database which stores
   information about the channel availability at any given location and
   time.  A number of possible use cases of white space spectrum and
   technology as well as a set of requirements for the database query
   protocol are also described.


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-r=
qmts-04.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
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mts-04.txt

The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is:
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s/


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From: "Jesse Caulfield" <caulfield.jesse@gmail.com>
To: <paws@ietf.org>
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On the topic of Channel Reporting by a WSD to a Spectrum Administrator:

 

In 2009 we petitioned the FCC to require that WSDs report their selected
operating channel back to the spectrum administrator. (See BROADCAST CHANNEL
SELECTION on page 6 of
http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=6520201894). After follow up
meetings and consultations we dropped the request because:

1)      we subsequently adopted the strategy that anything not absolutely
required for protecting licensed services should be left to the discretion
of industry

2)      confirming the WSD operating channel is not required to protect
licensed  services

3)      defining in the Rules a minimum reporting requirement could
inadvertently establish a maximum reporting standard

 

So what? Just because reporting is not required doesn't make it not useful
or unnecessary.

 

In the US an intermediary (i.e. a radio controller) cannot communicate with
an administrator for the purposes of establishing a wireless transmission.
(Ref. earlier discussions on this mailing list regarding proxies.) Absent a
Rule change there is currently no strategy aside from spectrum sensing for
heterogeneous white space networks to efficiently coexist

 

It stands to reason then that white space network sensing, control and
coexistence algorithms must be implemented in the radios themselves. This is
exactly what is seen in the current WSD product pipeline (see Adaptrum,
etc.) 

 

Reporting (at least in the US) is legally optional. Nevertheless it is a
technical necessity for spectrum efficiency and coexistence; especially
should two or more wireless networks wish to operate in the same geographic
area.

 

I believe it would be a fatal omission should PAWS neglect to include a
reporting capability.

 

Warm regards,

 

--

Jesse Caulfield, President

Key Bridge Global LLC

1600 Tysons Blvd.,  Suite 1100

McLean, VA 22102

Email: jesse.caulfield@keybridgeglobal.com

 

 

 

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Peter Stanforth
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 8:42 AM
To: andy.sago@bt.com; amerh@microsoft.com; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com;
gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

There is no FCC requirement to provide channel use information from a WSD.  

 

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "amerh@microsoft.com" <amerh@microsoft.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"
<Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca"
<gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>, Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Gabor and group

 

I don't know where this requirement has come from. I don't think that FCC
requires usage information, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK case.
Ofcom requires usage information before the base station transmits - hence
why the charter update uses the language about 'anticipated' usage. Ofcom
hasn't said it will be acceptable to provide the information several hours
later with the next channel request, so I don't think Amer's suggestion will
address the regulatory requirement. For clarity I have again copied the
latest draft Ofcom regulation below:

 

3.19 After receiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum
permitted EIRPs over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating transmissions
within the UHF TV band, a master WSD must successfully communicate to the
WSDB the following information:

 

3.19.1 The lower and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block
emissions of the master WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of its
associated slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1n)
MHz, with the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1m)
MHz, where 0 ? k ? 39, 0 ? n ? 79, 1 ? m ? 80, and n < m.

3.19.2 The maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, specified in units of
dBm/(0.1 MHz), that the master WSD and its associated slaves actually
radiate between each reported lower frequency boundary and its corresponding
upper frequency boundary.

 

The footnote [18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency boundaries
(defined over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more granular
information with regards to the usage of the frequency resource by
narrowband WSD technologies. The upper and lower frequencies of a boundary
pair do not straddle a DTT channel boundary. Note that a WSD may transmit
over multiple, non-contiguous, whole DTT channels or fractions of DTT
channels.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Amer
Hassan
Sent: 09 May 2012 20:15
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca;
peter@spectrumbridge.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter:

 

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage
pattern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on channel
reporting from the device to the database on what channels the device will
use or anticipate to use (or something along this line).  

 

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make
sense  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had
used since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is more
accurate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting
"anticipated" channel use.  We think this is the right approach.

 

Thoughts?

 

Best,
Amer and Paul

 

 

 

From:paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; peter@spectrumbridge.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Gerald,

 

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a
problem with anticipated usage. 

I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual
usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the
time being. 

 

-          Gabor

 

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Pete, Gabor,

 

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For them,
the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not.
"Anticipated", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are
use to deal with. It is being used or not so that the interference
calculations can be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another matter
that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any
moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using
the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is
actually used or not.

 

My two cents :

 

Gerald

 

  _____  

From:paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Stanforth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not
opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of
several people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did
not get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated",
"intended" or "expected" was a problem.  

Peter S.

 

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Peter,

 

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want to
report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the same
transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we
want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously
contacting the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time
during their operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want
to design. 

Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need
the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I
guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I could
see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on the
list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.

If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, and
consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use
Cases and Requirements draft.

 

-          Gabor

 

 

 

From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Pete,

I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think
that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid
defining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get
some input and contributions on the issue. 

Peter S.

 

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"
<Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may
involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum
usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That
is a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as
"anticipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage"
was a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and
there are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to
the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com wrote: 

Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial
proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from
"Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable
granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a
suitable granularity". 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com] 
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

 

What is the proposal?

 

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org"
<paws@ietf.org>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

 

Gabor

 

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now
submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

 

Thanks

 

Andy






-- 
Pete Resnick  <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>On the topic of Channel Reporting by a WSD to a Spectrum =
Administrator:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In 2009 we petitioned the FCC to require that WSDs report their =
selected operating channel back to the spectrum administrator. (See =
<i>BROADCAST CHANNEL SELECTION</i> on page 6 of <a =
href=3D"http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=3D6520201894">http://ap=
ps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=3D6520201894</a>). After follow up =
meetings and consultations we dropped the request =
because:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>we subsequently adopted the strategy that anything not absolutely =
required for protecting licensed services should be left to the =
discretion of industry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>confirming the WSD operating channel is not required to protect =
licensed &nbsp;services<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>defining in the Rules a minimum reporting requirement could =
inadvertently establish a maximum reporting =
standard<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>So what? Just because reporting is not required doesn&#8217;t make it =
not useful or unnecessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In the US an intermediary (i.e. a radio controller) cannot =
communicate with an administrator for the purposes of establishing a =
wireless transmission. (Ref. earlier discussions on this mailing list =
regarding proxies.) Absent a Rule change there is currently no strategy =
aside from spectrum sensing for heterogeneous white space networks to =
efficiently coexist<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It stands to reason then that white space network sensing, control =
and coexistence algorithms must be implemented in the radios themselves. =
This is exactly what is seen in the current WSD product pipeline (see =
Adaptrum, etc.) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Reporting (at least in the US) is legally optional. Nevertheless it =
is a technical necessity for spectrum efficiency and coexistence; =
especially should two or more wireless networks wish to operate in the =
same geographic area.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I believe it would be a fatal omission should PAWS neglect to include =
a reporting capability.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Warm regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jesse Caulfield, President<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Key Bridge Global LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>1600 Tysons Blvd.,&nbsp; Suite 1100<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>McLean, VA 22102<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Email: jesse.caulfield@keybridgeglobal.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Peter Stanforth<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2012 8:42 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> andy.sago@bt.com; amerh@microsoft.com; =
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<br><b>Cc:</b> =
paws@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update =
progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>There is no FCC requirement to provide channel use information from a =
WSD. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: =
</b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>&gt;, Peter Stanforth &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;=
<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>RE: [paws] Charter update =
progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor and =
group</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don&#8217;t =
know where this requirement has come from. I don&#8217;t think that FCC =
requires usage information, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK case. =
Ofcom requires usage information before the base station transmits =
&#8211; hence why the charter update uses the language about =
&#8216;anticipated&#8217; usage. Ofcom hasn&#8217;t said it will be =
acceptable to provide the information several hours later with the next =
channel request, so I don&#8217;t think Amer&#8217;s suggestion will =
address the regulatory requirement. For clarity I have again copied the =
latest draft Ofcom regulation below:</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19 After =
receiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum permitted =
EIRPs over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating transmissions =
within the UHF TV band, a master WSD must successfully communicate to =
the WSDB the following information:</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19.1 The =
lower and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block emissions of =
the master WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of its associated =
slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1n) MHz, =
with the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1m) =
MHz, where 0 &#8804; k &#8804; 39, 0 &#8804; n &#8804; 79, 1 &#8804; m =
&#8804; 80, and n &lt; m.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19.2 The =
maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, specified in units of dBm/(0.1 =
MHz), that the master WSD and its associated slaves actually radiate =
between each reported lower frequency boundary and its corresponding =
upper frequency boundary.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The footnote =
[18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency boundaries (defined =
over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more granular =
information with regards to the usage of the frequency resource by =
narrowband WSD technologies. The upper and lower frequencies of a =
boundary pair do not straddle a DTT channel boundary. Note that a WSD =
may transmit over multiple, non-contiguous, whole DTT channels or =
fractions of DTT channels.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span>=
<span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy</span><sp=
an lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'> <a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Amer Hassan<br><b>Sent:</b> 09 May 2012 =
20:15<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br>=
<b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>A few comments on the channel reporting part of the =
charter&#8230;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel =
usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us agree.&nbsp; There has been a lot of =
discussions on channel reporting from the device to the database on what =
channels the device will use or anticipate to use (or something along =
this line).&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to =
make sense &nbsp;that </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
0'>the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had used =
since the last query</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>.&nbsp; This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in =
accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting =
&#8220;anticipated&#8221; channel use.&nbsp; We think this is the right =
approach.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thoughts?</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best,<br>Amer and Paul</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a><br><b>Sen=
t:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br>=
<b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gerald,</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have =
a problem with anticipated usage. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the =
actual usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any =
regulator for the time being. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>-</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gabor</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'> ext Gerald Chouinard [<a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">mailto:gerald.chouinard@sym=
patico.ca</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor =
(Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Pe=
te, Gabor,</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Yo=
u may want to look at this from the regulators&#8217; point of view. =
&nbsp;For them, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used =
or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; or =
&quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal =
with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can =
be done properly. The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter =
that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at =
any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectation of =
using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the =
spectrum is actually used or not.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>My=
 two cents &#8230;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Ge=
rald</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 =
May, 2012 18:28<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>I am sorry if my last message &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I =
was not opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know =
that I was one of several people that asked Ofcom directly what they =
were looking for, I did not get any indication that our proposed =
language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; or =
&quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Peter S.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>To=
: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Peter,</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we =
want to report &#8216;intended spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly =
be done within the same transaction as the query/response for channel =
availability. If instead we want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum =
usage&#8217;, that means that the protocol will need to have the =
capability to allow the clients autonomously contacting the DB and =
reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during their =
operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to =
design. </span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do =
not need the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that =
wording, I guess you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is =
the only alternative I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what =
you want. We can ask if people on the list agree with this. If yes, then =
bingo.</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If not, then we won&#8217;t have a charter update until we agree on =
this text, and consequently we can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting =
requirements to the Use Cases and Requirements draft.</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>-</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#040100'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gabor</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From: ext Peter Stanforth [<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>] <br>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>To: Pete Resnick; <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><br>Cc: Bajko Gabor =
(Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [paws] =
Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Pete,</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I =
don't think that the implication &nbsp;is well understood. So the =
charter should avoid defining what or how it would be provided until we =
have had chance to get some input and contributions on the =
issue.&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Peter S.</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: Pete =
Resnick &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>To=
: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>Cc: =
Peter Stanforth &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;=
, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Andy,<br><br>As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum =
usage&quot; sounds like it may involve a dynamically updating process =
such that any change in spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs =
to be reported to the database. That is a *much* larger change than was =
proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum =
usage&quot;. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is =
problematic, and there are several folks who do not agree with this =
change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, =
that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your =
text.<br><br>pr<br><br>On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a> wrote: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor may =
have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial =
proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet =
point 5 from &quot;Report to the white space database anticipated =
spectrum usage at a suitable granularity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum =
usage to the white space database at a suitable granularity&#8221;. =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy</span></b=
><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From: Peter Stanforth [<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>] <br>Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [paws] =
Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>What is the proposal?</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>To: =
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: [paws] =
Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Gabor</span></=
b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>There has =
been no reflector discussion since 24</span></b><b><sup><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>th</span></sup></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'> April UK =
time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that =
already happened?</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Thanks</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Andy</span></b=
><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><br><br><br></span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>-- </span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>Pete Resnick <a =
href=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/&gt;</a></span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: =
(858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01CD2F7A.134BC220--


From Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com  Fri May 11 11:01:41 2012
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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [paws] Charter update progress
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 18:01:19 +0000
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Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
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A reporting capability will be included to paws. At minimum, the anticipate=
d usage will be reported in the regulatory domains which require it.

What Amer was asking for is have a capability to report (in addition to the=
 above) also the channels used since the last query. As I mentioned, I beli=
eve this type of data can be sent to the db together with the anticipated u=
sage, so I do not think this would add any new requirement to the protocol =
itself, but would need to be supported by the data model.

So the question is really if people on this list feel paws should build a c=
apability into the data model to report also usage since last query, in add=
ition to anticipated usage, or not.


-          Gabor


From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext=
 Jesse Caulfield
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 10:29 AM
To: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

On the topic of Channel Reporting by a WSD to a Spectrum Administrator:

In 2009 we petitioned the FCC to require that WSDs report their selected op=
erating channel back to the spectrum administrator. (See BROADCAST CHANNEL =
SELECTION on page 6 of http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=3D65202018=
94). After follow up meetings and consultations we dropped the request beca=
use:

1)      we subsequently adopted the strategy that anything not absolutely r=
equired for protecting licensed services should be left to the discretion o=
f industry

2)      confirming the WSD operating channel is not required to protect lic=
ensed  services

3)      defining in the Rules a minimum reporting requirement could inadver=
tently establish a maximum reporting standard

So what? Just because reporting is not required doesn't make it not useful =
or unnecessary.

In the US an intermediary (i.e. a radio controller) cannot communicate with=
 an administrator for the purposes of establishing a wireless transmission.=
 (Ref. earlier discussions on this mailing list regarding proxies.) Absent =
a Rule change there is currently no strategy aside from spectrum sensing fo=
r heterogeneous white space networks to efficiently coexist

It stands to reason then that white space network sensing, control and coex=
istence algorithms must be implemented in the radios themselves. This is ex=
actly what is seen in the current WSD product pipeline (see Adaptrum, etc.)

Reporting (at least in the US) is legally optional. Nevertheless it is a te=
chnical necessity for spectrum efficiency and coexistence; especially shoul=
d two or more wireless networks wish to operate in the same geographic area=
.

I believe it would be a fatal omission should PAWS neglect to include a rep=
orting capability.

Warm regards,

--
Jesse Caulfield, President
Key Bridge Global LLC
1600 Tysons Blvd.,  Suite 1100
McLean, VA 22102
Email: jesse.caulfield@keybridgeglobal.com<mailto:jesse.caulfield@keybridge=
global.com>



From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Peter Sta=
nforth
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 8:42 AM
To: andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>; amerh@microsoft.com<mailto:a=
merh@microsoft.com>; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; g=
erald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

There is no FCC requirement to provide channel use information from a WSD.

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "amerh@microsoft.com<mailto:amerh@microsoft.com>" <amerh@microsoft.com<=
mailto:amerh@microsoft.com>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nok=
ia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "gerald.cho=
uinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>" <gerald.chouinar=
d@sympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>>, Peter Stanforth <pet=
er@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com>>
Cc: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor and group

I don't know where this requirement has come from. I don't think that FCC r=
equires usage information, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK case. Ofc=
om requires usage information before the base station transmits - hence why=
 the charter update uses the language about 'anticipated' usage. Ofcom hasn=
't said it will be acceptable to provide the information several hours late=
r with the next channel request, so I don't think Amer's suggestion will ad=
dress the regulatory requirement. For clarity I have again copied the lates=
t draft Ofcom regulation below:

3.19 After receiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum pe=
rmitted EIRPs over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating transmissions =
within the UHF TV band, a master WSD must successfully communicate to the W=
SDB the following information:

3.19.1 The lower and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block emissio=
ns of the master WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of its associated=
 slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1n) MHz, with=
 the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1m) MHz, wher=
e 0 =98 k =98 39, 0 =98 n =98 79, 1 =98 m =98 80, and n < m.
3.19.2 The maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, specified in units of =
dBm/(0.1 MHz), that the master WSD and its associated slaves actually radia=
te between each reported lower frequency boundary and its corresponding upp=
er frequency boundary.

The footnote [18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency boundaries=
 (defined over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more granular inf=
ormation with regards to the usage of the frequency resource by narrowband =
WSD technologies. The upper and lower frequencies of a boundary pair do not=
 straddle a DTT channel boundary. Note that a WSD may transmit over multipl=
e, non-contiguous, whole DTT channels or fractions of DTT channels.

Regards

Andy

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Amer Hassan
Sent: 09 May 2012 20:15
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; gerald.chouinard@s=
ympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>; peter@spectrumbridge.com=
<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter...

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pat=
tern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on channel re=
porting from the device to the database on what channels the device will us=
e or anticipate to use (or something along this line).

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make se=
nse  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had u=
sed since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is more accur=
ate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting "antici=
pated" channel use.  We think this is the right approach.

Thoughts?

Best,
Amer and Paul



From:paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-bounc=
es@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca<mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>; pe=
ter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Gerald,

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a prob=
lem with anticipated usage.
I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the actual u=
sage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any regulator for the t=
ime being.


-          Gabor

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete, Gabor,

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For them,=
 the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. "Anticipat=
ed", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they are use to d=
eal with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can=
 be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another matter that has to do =
with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at any moment, the spec=
trum is used or not. The intention or expectation of using the spectrum is =
an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spectrum is actually used or no=
t.

My two cents ...

Gerald

________________________________
From:paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-bounc=
es@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Peter Stan=
forth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>; paws@ietf.org<mail=
to:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not op=
posed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one of s=
everal people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did n=
ot get any indication that our proposed language using "anticipated", "inte=
nded" or "expected" was a problem.
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Peter,

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we want t=
o report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done within the sa=
me transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead w=
e want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', that means that the protocol =
will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomously contacti=
ng the DB and reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during the=
ir operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to design=
.
Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not nee=
d the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, =
I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only alternative I cou=
ld see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can ask if people on th=
e list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.
If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, an=
d consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use=
 Cases and Requirements draft.


-          Gabor



From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Pete,
I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't thin=
k that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should avoid def=
ining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some=
 input and contributions on the issue.
Peter S.

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com<mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com>>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:an=
dy.sago@bt.com>>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com<mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om>>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org=
>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it may=
 involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in spectrum us=
age, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the database. That i=
s a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why we had it as "anti=
cipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended spectrum usage" was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" is problematic, and th=
ere are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have read the =
list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I can't go to=
 the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com> wrote:
Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initia=
l proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point 5 from "=
Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable=
 granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a su=
itable granularity".

Regards

Andy


From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=
; paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

What is the proposal?

From: "andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:andy.sago@bt.com>" <andy.sago@bt.com<mailto:=
andy.sago@bt.com>>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@noki=
a.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>, "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>"=
 <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

Gabor

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we now=
 submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already happened?

Thanks

Andy



--

Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/><http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/>

Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">A reporting capability wi=
ll be included to paws. At minimum, the anticipated usage will be reported =
in the regulatory domains which require it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">What Amer was asking for =
is have a capability to report (in addition to the above) also the channels=
 used since the last query. As I mentioned, I believe this
 type of data can be sent to the db together with the anticipated usage, so=
 I do not think this would add any new requirement to the protocol itself, =
but would need to be supported by the data model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">So the question is really=
 if people on this list feel paws should build a capability into the data m=
odel to report also usage since last query, in addition
 to anticipated usage, or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> paws-bou=
nces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Jesse Caulfield<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2012 10:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> paws@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">On the topic of Channel R=
eporting by a WSD to a Spectrum Administrator:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In 2009 we petitioned the=
 FCC to require that WSDs report their selected operating channel back to t=
he spectrum administrator. (See
<i>BROADCAST CHANNEL SELECTION</i> on page 6 of <a href=3D"http://apps.fcc.=
gov/ecfs/document/view?id=3D6520201894">
http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=3D6520201894</a>). After follow u=
p meetings and consultations we dropped the request because:<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">we subsequently a=
dopted the strategy that anything not absolutely required for protecting li=
censed services should be left to the discretion of industry<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">confirming the WS=
D operating channel is not required to protect licensed &nbsp;services<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">defining in the R=
ules a minimum reporting requirement could inadvertently establish a maximu=
m reporting standard<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">So what? Just because rep=
orting is not required doesn&#8217;t make it not useful or unnecessary.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In the US an intermediary=
 (i.e. a radio controller) cannot communicate with an administrator for the=
 purposes of establishing a wireless transmission. (Ref.
 earlier discussions on this mailing list regarding proxies.) Absent a Rule=
 change there is currently no strategy aside from spectrum sensing for hete=
rogeneous white space networks to efficiently coexist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">It stands to reason then =
that white space network sensing, control and coexistence algorithms must b=
e implemented in the radios themselves. This is exactly
 what is seen in the current WSD product pipeline (see Adaptrum, etc.) <o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Reporting (at least in th=
e US) is legally optional. Nevertheless it is a technical necessity for spe=
ctrum efficiency and coexistence; especially should two
 or more wireless networks wish to operate in the same geographic area.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I believe it would be a f=
atal omission should PAWS neglect to include a reporting capability.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Warm regards,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Jesse Caulfield, Presiden=
t<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Key Bridge Global LLC<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">1600 Tysons Blvd.,&nbsp; =
Suite 1100<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">McLean, VA 22102<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Email:
<a href=3D"mailto:jesse.caulfield@keybridgeglobal.com">jesse.caulfield@keyb=
ridgeglobal.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">
[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2012 8:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>; <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">
amerh@microsoft.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Baj=
ko@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico=
.ca</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">There is no FCC requireme=
nt to provide channel use information from a WSD. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com=
</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.co=
m</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.=
com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sy=
mpatico.ca</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">g=
erald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>&gt;, Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor and group</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I don&#8217;t know where th=
is requirement has come from. I don&#8217;t think that FCC requires usage i=
nformation, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK case. Ofcom requires
 usage information before the base station transmits &#8211; hence why the =
charter update uses the language about &#8216;anticipated&#8217; usage. Ofc=
om hasn&#8217;t said it will be acceptable to provide the information sever=
al hours later with the next channel request, so I don&#8217;t
 think Amer&#8217;s suggestion will address the regulatory requirement. For=
 clarity I have again copied the latest draft Ofcom regulation below:</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">3.19 After receiving instru=
ctions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum permitted EIRPs over the DTT =
channels, and prior to initiating transmissions within the
 UHF TV band, a master WSD must successfully communicate to the WSDB the fo=
llowing information:</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=
3.19.1 The lower and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block emissio=
ns of the master WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of
 its associated slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 &#43; 8=
k &#43; 0.1n) MHz, with the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470=
 &#43; 8k &#43; 0.1m) MHz, where 0 =98 k =98 39, 0 =98 n =98 79, 1 =98 m =
=98 80, and n &lt; m.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=
3.19.2 The maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, specified in units of =
dBm/(0.1 MHz), that the master WSD and its associated slaves
 actually radiate between each reported lower frequency boundary and its co=
rresponding upper frequency boundary.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"c=
olor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=
&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The footnote [18] reads: 18=
 The use of upper and lower frequency boundaries (defined over a 100 kHz ra=
ster) allows a WSDB to collect more granular information with
 regards to the usage of the frequency resource by narrowband WSD technolog=
ies. The upper and lower frequencies of a boundary pair do not straddle a D=
TT channel boundary. Note that a WSD may transmit over multiple, non-contig=
uous, whole DTT channels or fractions
 of DTT channels.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Andy</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#040100">
<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=
=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Amer Hassan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 May 2012 20:15<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">
gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.c=
om">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">A few comments on the cha=
nnel reporting part of the charter&#8230;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Consensus in the group (P=
AWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us ag=
ree.&nbsp; There has been a lot of discussions on channel reporting
 from the device to the database on what channels the device will use or an=
ticipate to use (or something along this line).&nbsp;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">However, for the suggeste=
d purpose of channel reporting it seems to make sense &nbsp;that
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">the TVWS device report back to the dat=
abase the channels it had used since the last query</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1F497D">.&nbsp;
 This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in accomplishin=
g the goals for channel reporting than reporting &#8220;anticipated&#8221; =
channel use.&nbsp; We think this is the right approach.</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thoughts?</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best,<br>
Amer and Paul</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:#040100"><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@=
ietf.org</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf=
.org]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinar=
d@sympatico.ca</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br=
>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gerald,</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter indicated in his em=
ail that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a problem with anticipated usag=
e.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I agree that the interfer=
ence calculations need the data about the actual usage, but this does not s=
eem to be a requirement of any regulator for the time being.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:#1F497D">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D=
"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#040100"> ext Gerald Chouinard [<a href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinar=
d@sympatico.ca">mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Pete, Gabor,</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">You may want to look at this f=
rom the regulators&#8217; point of view. &nbsp;For them, the only thing tha=
t counts is that the spectrum is used or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quo=
t;intended&quot;
 or &quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal w=
ith. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can be d=
one properly. The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter that has=
 to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage
 but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectati=
on of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the spe=
ctrum is actually used or not.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#0=
40100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">My two cents &#8230;</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Gerald</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#040100"><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf=
.org]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">
paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I am sorry if my last mes=
sage &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I was not opposed to the wording=
 we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know that I was one of several
 people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, I did not get=
 any indication that our proposed language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &=
quot;intended&quot; or &quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko=
@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Baj=
ko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Peter,</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The question is what f=
eatures do we want the protocol to have. If we want to report &#8216;intend=
ed spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly be done within the same
 transaction as the query/response for channel availability. If instead we =
want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum usage&#8217;, that means that the=
 protocol will need to have the capability to allow the clients autonomousl=
y contacting the DB and reporting any change
 in spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to=
 know which features do we want to design.
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Some folks suggested a=
nticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not need the protocol to send=
 reports dynamically. Since you oppose that wording, I guess
 you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is the only alternative =
I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what you want. We can ask if p=
eople on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If not, then we won&#8=
217;t have a charter update until we agree on this text, and consequently w=
e can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting requirements to the Use Cases
 and Requirements draft.</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040=
100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">-</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#040100">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: ext Peter Stanfor=
th [<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge=
.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>
To: Pete Resnick; <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><=
br>
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org"=
>paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Pete,</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">I share your sentiment=
s. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't think that the implication=
 &nbsp;is well understood. So the charter should avoid defining
 what or how it would be provided until we have had chance to get some inpu=
t and contributions on the issue.&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl=
e=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Peter S.</span></b><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: Pete Resnick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Peter Stanforth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@s=
pectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">G=
abor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com"=
>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws=
@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy,<br>
<br>
As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum usage&quot; sounds l=
ike it may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in s=
pectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the databa=
se. That is a *much* larger change than was
 proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum usage&quot;=
. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was a reasonable =
compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is problematic, and there=
 are several folks who do not agree with this change as I have
 read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, that's fine. But I c=
an't go to the IESG with your text.<br>
<br>
pr<br>
<br>
On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>=
 wrote: </span>
</b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gabor may have a combined view of the p=
roposals - I still support my initial proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, wh=
ich was to change the new bullet point 5 from &quot;Report to
 the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at a suitable granular=
ity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum usage to the white space database at a =
suitable granularity&#8221;.
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Andy</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From: Peter Stanforth [=
<a href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com=
</a>]
<br>
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajk=
o@nokia.com</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">What is the proposal?<=
/span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@b=
t.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">a=
ndy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a=
>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl=
e=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Gabor</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" st=
yle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">There has been no reflector discussion =
since 24</span></b><b><sup><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">th</span></sup></b><b>=
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#040100">
 April UK time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has =
that already happened?</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#04010=
0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Thanks</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Andy</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
#040100"><br>
<br>
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">-- </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" st=
yle=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Pete Resnick <a href=3D"http://www.qu=
alcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/&gt;</a></span=
></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><span style=3D"color:#040100">Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone:=
 (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"=
color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From scott.probasco@nokia.com  Fri May 11 11:51:08 2012
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From: <scott.probasco@nokia.com>
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--_000_CBD2C9C0BD9Cscottprobasconokiacom_
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Hello All,

A new version of the Use Cases & Requirements draft has been uploaded. This=
 version of the Internet Draft has addressed all of the issues raised durin=
g Working Group Last Call, including discussion from IETF #83, and is ready=
 to be forwarded to IESG.

Kind Regards,
Raj & Scott

Draft:  http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-=
04.txt

Diff:   http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-u=
secases-rqmts-04

Abstract:
   Portions of the radio spectrum that are assigned to a particular use
   but are unused or unoccupied at specific locations and times are
   defined as "white space".  The concept of allowing additional
   transmissions (which may or may not be licensed) in white space is a
   technique to &quot;unlock&quot; existing spectrum for new use.  An obvio=
us
   requirement is that these additional transmissions do not interfere
   with the assigned use of the spectrum.  One approach to using the
   white space spectrum at a given time and location is to verify with a
   database for available channels.

   This document describes the concept of TV White Spaces.  It also
   describes the problems that need to be addressed to enable white
   space spectrum for additional uses, without causing interference to
   currently assigned use, by querying a database which stores
   information about the channel availability at any given location and
   time.  A number of possible use cases of white space spectrum and
   technology as well as a set of requirements for the database query
   protocol are also described.




--_000_CBD2C9C0BD9Cscottprobasconokiacom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">Hello All,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">A new version of =
the Use Cases &amp; Requirements draft has been uploaded.&nbsp;This version=
 of the Internet Draft has addressed all of the issues raised during Workin=
g Group Last Call, including discussion from
 IETF #83, and is ready to be forwarded to IESG.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">Kind Regards,</di=
v>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">Raj &amp; Scott</=
div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">Draft: &nbsp;<a h=
ref=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-0=
4.txt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-0=
4.txt</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">Diff: &nbsp;&nbsp=
;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-st=
mt-usecases-rqmts-04">http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-=
problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">Abstract:</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; Port=
ions of the radio spectrum that are assigned to a particular use</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; but =
are unused or unoccupied at specific locations and times are</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; defi=
ned as &quot;white space&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp;The concept of allowing addition=
al</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; tran=
smissions (which may or may not be licensed) in white space is a</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; tech=
nique to &amp;quot;unlock&amp;quot; existing spectrum for new use.&nbsp;&nb=
sp;An obvious</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; requ=
irement is that these additional transmissions do not interfere</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; with=
 the assigned use of the spectrum.&nbsp;&nbsp;One approach to using the</di=
v>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; whit=
e space spectrum at a given time and location is to verify with a</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; data=
base for available channels.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; This=
 document describes the concept of TV White Spaces.&nbsp;&nbsp;It also</div=
>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; desc=
ribes the problems that need to be addressed to enable white</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; spac=
e spectrum for additional uses, without causing interference to</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; curr=
ently assigned use, by querying a database which stores</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; info=
rmation about the channel availability at any given location and</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; time=
.&nbsp;&nbsp;A number of possible use cases of white space spectrum and</di=
v>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; tech=
nology as well as a set of requirements for the database query</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; prot=
ocol are also described.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Consolas; font-size: medium; "><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CBD2C9C0BD9Cscottprobasconokiacom_--

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Having the ability to optionally provide such type of information would =
make a lot of sense to me.

=20

Regards,

=20

Juan Carlos

=20

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 2:01 PM
To: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

A reporting capability will be included to paws. At minimum, the =
anticipated usage will be reported in the regulatory domains which =
require it.

=20

What Amer was asking for is have a capability to report (in addition to =
the above) also the channels used since the last query. As I mentioned, =
I believe this type of data can be sent to the db together with the =
anticipated usage, so I do not think this would add any new requirement =
to the protocol itself, but would need to be supported by the data =
model.

=20

So the question is really if people on this list feel paws should build =
a capability into the data model to report also usage since last query, =
in addition to anticipated usage, or not.

=20

-          Gabor

=20

=20

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
ext Jesse Caulfield
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 10:29 AM
To: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

On the topic of Channel Reporting by a WSD to a Spectrum Administrator:

=20

In 2009 we petitioned the FCC to require that WSDs report their selected =
operating channel back to the spectrum administrator. (See BROADCAST =
CHANNEL SELECTION on page 6 of =
http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=3D6520201894). After follow up =
meetings and consultations we dropped the request because:

1)      we subsequently adopted the strategy that anything not =
absolutely required for protecting licensed services should be left to =
the discretion of industry

2)      confirming the WSD operating channel is not required to protect =
licensed  services

3)      defining in the Rules a minimum reporting requirement could =
inadvertently establish a maximum reporting standard

=20

So what? Just because reporting is not required doesn't make it not =
useful or unnecessary.

=20

In the US an intermediary (i.e. a radio controller) cannot communicate =
with an administrator for the purposes of establishing a wireless =
transmission. (Ref. earlier discussions on this mailing list regarding =
proxies.) Absent a Rule change there is currently no strategy aside from =
spectrum sensing for heterogeneous white space networks to efficiently =
coexist

=20

It stands to reason then that white space network sensing, control and =
coexistence algorithms must be implemented in the radios themselves. =
This is exactly what is seen in the current WSD product pipeline (see =
Adaptrum, etc.)=20

=20

Reporting (at least in the US) is legally optional. Nevertheless it is a =
technical necessity for spectrum efficiency and coexistence; especially =
should two or more wireless networks wish to operate in the same =
geographic area.

=20

I believe it would be a fatal omission should PAWS neglect to include a =
reporting capability.

=20

Warm regards,

=20

--

Jesse Caulfield, President

Key Bridge Global LLC

1600 Tysons Blvd.,  Suite 1100

McLean, VA 22102

Email: jesse.caulfield@keybridgeglobal.com

=20

=20

=20

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Peter Stanforth
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 8:42 AM
To: andy.sago@bt.com; amerh@microsoft.com; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; =
gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

There is no FCC requirement to provide channel use information from a =
WSD. =20

=20

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "amerh@microsoft.com" <amerh@microsoft.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" =
<Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca" =
<gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca>, Peter Stanforth =
<peter@spectrumbridge.com>
Cc: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Gabor and group

=20

I don't know where this requirement has come from. I don't think that =
FCC requires usage information, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK =
case. Ofcom requires usage information before the base station transmits =
- hence why the charter update uses the language about 'anticipated' =
usage. Ofcom hasn't said it will be acceptable to provide the =
information several hours later with the next channel request, so I =
don't think Amer's suggestion will address the regulatory requirement. =
For clarity I have again copied the latest draft Ofcom regulation below:

=20

3.19 After receiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum =
permitted EIRPs over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating =
transmissions within the UHF TV band, a master WSD must successfully =
communicate to the WSDB the following information:

=20

3.19.1 The lower and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block =
emissions of the master WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of its =
associated slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 + 8k + =
0.1n) MHz, with the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470 + 8k =
+ 0.1m) MHz, where 0 =98 k =98 39, 0 =98 n =98 79, 1 =98 m =98 80, and n =
< m.

3.19.2 The maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, specified in units =
of dBm/(0.1 MHz), that the master WSD and its associated slaves actually =
radiate between each reported lower frequency boundary and its =
corresponding upper frequency boundary.

=20

The footnote [18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency =
boundaries (defined over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more =
granular information with regards to the usage of the frequency resource =
by narrowband WSD technologies. The upper and lower frequencies of a =
boundary pair do not straddle a DTT channel boundary. Note that a WSD =
may transmit over multiple, non-contiguous, whole DTT channels or =
fractions of DTT channels.

=20

Regards

=20

Andy

=20

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Amer Hassan
Sent: 09 May 2012 20:15
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; =
peter@spectrumbridge.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

A few comments on the channel reporting part of the charter...

=20

Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel usage =
pattern.  Most of us agree.  There has been a lot of discussions on =
channel reporting from the device to the database on what channels the =
device will use or anticipate to use (or something along this line). =20

=20

However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to make =
sense  that the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it =
had used since the last query.  This requirement is simple, AND it is =
more accurate in accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than =
reporting "anticipated" channel use.  We think this is the right =
approach.

=20

Thoughts?

=20

Best,
Amer and Paul

=20

=20

=20

From:paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM
To: gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca; peter@spectrumbridge.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Gerald,

=20

Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have a =
problem with anticipated usage.=20

I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the =
actual usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any =
regulator for the time being.=20

=20

-          Gabor

=20

From: ext Gerald Chouinard [mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca]=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 AM
To: 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Pete, Gabor,

=20

You may want to look at this from the regulators' point of view.  For =
them, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used or not. =
"Anticipated", "intended" or "expected" usage is not something that they =
are use to deal with. It is being used or not so that the interference =
calculations can be done properly. The "real-time" aspect is another =
matter that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage =
but at any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or =
expectation of using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to =
whether the spectrum is actually used or not.

=20

My two cents ...

=20

Gerald

=20

________________________________

From:paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Peter Stanforth
Sent: Monday, 07 May, 2012 18:28
To: Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

I am sorry if my last message  created/added to the confusion. I was not =
opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted.   I know that I was one =
of several people that asked Ofcom directly what they were looking for, =
I did not get any indication that our proposed language using =
"anticipated", "intended" or "expected" was a problem. =20

Peter S.

=20

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Peter,

=20

The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we =
want to report 'intended spectrum usage', that can possibly be done =
within the same transaction as the query/response for channel =
availability. If instead we want to report the 'actual spectrum usage', =
that means that the protocol will need to have the capability to allow =
the clients autonomously contacting the DB and reporting any change in =
spectrum usage at any time during their operation. The IESG may want to =
know which features do we want to design.=20

Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do not =
need the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that =
wording, I guess you want 'actual usage' then, as that is the only =
alternative I could see. Can you confirm if that's what you want. We can =
ask if people on the list agree with this. If yes, then bingo.

If not, then we won't have a charter update until we agree on this text, =
and consequently we can't include the Ofcom reporting requirements to =
the Use Cases and Requirements draft.

=20

-          Gabor

=20

=20

=20

From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]=20
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Pete Resnick; andy.sago@bt.com
Cc: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Pete,

I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I don't =
think that the implication  is well understood. So the charter should =
avoid defining what or how it would be provided until we have had chance =
to get some input and contributions on the issue.=20

Peter S.

=20

From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
To: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
Cc: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" =
<Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Andy,

As I have explained, just saying "report spectrum usage" sounds like it =
may involve a dynamically updating process such that any change in =
spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs to be reported to the =
database. That is a *much* larger change than was proposed, which is why =
we had it as "anticipated spectrum usage". I also thought that "intended =
spectrum usage" was a reasonable compromise. But simply "spectrum usage" =
is problematic, and there are several folks who do not agree with this =
change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, =
that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your text.

pr

On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, andy.sago@bt.com wrote:=20

Gabor may have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my =
initial proposal of April 15th, which was to change the new bullet point =
5 from "Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage at =
a suitable granularity" to "Report spectrum usage to the white space =
database at a suitable granularity".=20

=20

Regards

=20

Andy

=20

=20

From: Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]=20
Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24
To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

What is the proposal?

=20

From: "andy.sago@bt.com" <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" =
<paws@ietf.org>
Subject: [paws] Charter update progress

=20

Gabor

=20

There has been no reflector discussion since 24th April UK time. Can we =
now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that already =
happened?

=20

Thanks

=20

Andy

=20

--=20
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/> =
<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>=20
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Having the ability to optionally provide such type of information =
would make a lot of sense to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Juan Carlos<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2012 2:01 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> paws@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter =
update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>A reporting capability will be included to paws. At minimum, the =
anticipated usage will be reported in the regulatory domains which =
require it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What Amer was asking for is have a capability to report (in addition =
to the above) also the channels used since the last query. As I =
mentioned, I believe this type of data can be sent to the db together =
with the anticipated usage, so I do not think this would add any new =
requirement to the protocol itself, but would need to be supported by =
the data model.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>So the question is really if people on this list feel paws should =
build a capability into the data model to report also usage since last =
query, in addition to anticipated usage, or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gabor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>ext Jesse Caulfield<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2012 10:29 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> paws@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] Charter =
update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>On the topic of Channel Reporting by a WSD to a Spectrum =
Administrator:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In 2009 we petitioned the FCC to require that WSDs report their =
selected operating channel back to the spectrum administrator. (See =
<i>BROADCAST CHANNEL SELECTION</i> on page 6 of <a =
href=3D"http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=3D6520201894">http://ap=
ps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=3D6520201894</a>). After follow up =
meetings and consultations we dropped the request =
because:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>we subsequently adopted the strategy that anything not absolutely =
required for protecting licensed services should be left to the =
discretion of industry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>confirming the WSD operating channel is not required to protect =
licensed &nbsp;services<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>defining in the Rules a minimum reporting requirement could =
inadvertently establish a maximum reporting =
standard<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>So what? Just because reporting is not required doesn&#8217;t make it =
not useful or unnecessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In the US an intermediary (i.e. a radio controller) cannot =
communicate with an administrator for the purposes of establishing a =
wireless transmission. (Ref. earlier discussions on this mailing list =
regarding proxies.) Absent a Rule change there is currently no strategy =
aside from spectrum sensing for heterogeneous white space networks to =
efficiently coexist<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It stands to reason then that white space network sensing, control =
and coexistence algorithms must be implemented in the radios themselves. =
This is exactly what is seen in the current WSD product pipeline (see =
Adaptrum, etc.) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Reporting (at least in the US) is legally optional. Nevertheless it =
is a technical necessity for spectrum efficiency and coexistence; =
especially should two or more wireless networks wish to operate in the =
same geographic area.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I believe it would be a fatal omission should PAWS neglect to include =
a reporting capability.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Warm regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jesse Caulfield, President<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Key Bridge Global LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>1600 Tysons Blvd.,&nbsp; Suite 1100<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>McLean, VA 22102<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Email: <a =
href=3D"mailto:jesse.caulfield@keybridgeglobal.com">jesse.caulfield@keybr=
idgeglobal.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May =
11, 2012 8:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>There is no FCC requirement to provide channel use information from a =
WSD. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: =
</b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:amerh@microsoft.com">amerh@microsoft.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>&gt;, Peter Stanforth &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;=
<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>RE: [paws] Charter update =
progress<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor and =
group</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don&#8217;t =
know where this requirement has come from. I don&#8217;t think that FCC =
requires usage information, so I presume Amer is addressing the UK case. =
Ofcom requires usage information before the base station transmits =
&#8211; hence why the charter update uses the language about =
&#8216;anticipated&#8217; usage. Ofcom hasn&#8217;t said it will be =
acceptable to provide the information several hours later with the next =
channel request, so I don&#8217;t think Amer&#8217;s suggestion will =
address the regulatory requirement. For clarity I have again copied the =
latest draft Ofcom regulation below:</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19 After =
receiving instructions from a WSDB in relation to the maximum permitted =
EIRPs over the DTT channels, and prior to initiating transmissions =
within the UHF TV band, a master WSD must successfully communicate to =
the WSDB the following information:</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19.1 The =
lower and upper frequency boundaries[18] of the in-block emissions of =
the master WSD, and those of the in-block emissions of its associated =
slaves. A lower frequency will be specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1n) MHz, =
with the corresponding upper frequency specified as (470 + 8k + 0.1m) =
MHz, where 0 =98 k =98 39, 0 =98 n =98 79, 1 =98 m =98 80, and n &lt; =
m.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.19.2 The =
maximum in-block EIRP spectral densities, specified in units of dBm/(0.1 =
MHz), that the master WSD and its associated slaves actually radiate =
between each reported lower frequency boundary and its corresponding =
upper frequency boundary.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The footnote =
[18] reads: 18 The use of upper and lower frequency boundaries (defined =
over a 100 kHz raster) allows a WSDB to collect more granular =
information with regards to the usage of the frequency resource by =
narrowband WSD technologies. The upper and lower frequencies of a =
boundary pair do not straddle a DTT channel boundary. Note that a WSD =
may transmit over multiple, non-contiguous, whole DTT channels or =
fractions of DTT channels.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span>=
<span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy</span><sp=
an lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'> <a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Amer Hassan<br><b>Sent:</b> 09 May 2012 =
20:15<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br>=
<b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>A few comments on the channel reporting part of the =
charter&#8230;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Consensus in the group (PAWS) that there is need for TVWS channel =
usage pattern.&nbsp; Most of us agree.&nbsp; There has been a lot of =
discussions on channel reporting from the device to the database on what =
channels the device will use or anticipate to use (or something along =
this line).&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>However, for the suggested purpose of channel reporting it seems to =
make sense &nbsp;that </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
0'>the TVWS device report back to the database the channels it had used =
since the last query</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>.&nbsp; This requirement is simple, AND it is <u>more</u> accurate in =
accomplishing the goals for channel reporting than reporting =
&#8220;anticipated&#8221; channel use.&nbsp; We think this is the right =
approach.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thoughts?</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best,<br>Amer and Paul</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a><br><b>Sen=
t:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">gerald.chouinard@sympatico.=
ca</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a><br>=
<b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gerald,</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Peter indicated in his email that regulators (ie Ofcom) may not have =
a problem with anticipated usage. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree that the interference calculations need the data about the =
actual usage, but this does not seem to be a requirement of any =
regulator for the time being. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>-</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gabor</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'> ext Gerald Chouinard [<a =
href=3D"mailto:gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca">mailto:gerald.chouinard@sym=
patico.ca</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:18 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Peter Stanforth'; Bajko Gabor =
(Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Pe=
te, Gabor,</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Yo=
u may want to look at this from the regulators&#8217; point of view. =
&nbsp;For them, the only thing that counts is that the spectrum is used =
or not. &quot;Anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; or =
&quot;expected&quot; usage is not something that they are use to deal =
with. It is being used or not so that the interference calculations can =
be done properly. The &#8220;real-time&#8221; aspect is another matter =
that has to do with the time granularity of the spectrum usage but at =
any moment, the spectrum is used or not. The intention or expectation of =
using the spectrum is an aspect that is orthogonal to whether the =
spectrum is actually used or not.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>My=
 two cents &#8230;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Ge=
rald</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>&n=
bsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'><a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Stanforth<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 07 =
May, 2012 18:28<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>I am sorry if my last message &nbsp;created/added to the confusion. I =
was not opposed to the wording we had, that Pete quoted. &nbsp; I know =
that I was one of several people that asked Ofcom directly what they =
were looking for, I did not get any indication that our proposed =
language using &quot;anticipated&quot;, &quot;intended&quot; or =
&quot;expected&quot; was a problem. &nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Peter S.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>To=
: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Peter,</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The question is what features do we want the protocol to have. If we =
want to report &#8216;intended spectrum usage&#8217;, that can possibly =
be done within the same transaction as the query/response for channel =
availability. If instead we want to report the &#8216;actual spectrum =
usage&#8217;, that means that the protocol will need to have the =
capability to allow the clients autonomously contacting the DB and =
reporting any change in spectrum usage at any time during their =
operation. The IESG may want to know which features do we want to =
design. </span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Some folks suggested anticipated/intended usage, to hint that we do =
not need the protocol to send reports dynamically. Since you oppose that =
wording, I guess you want &#8216;actual usage&#8217; then, as that is =
the only alternative I could see. Can you confirm if that&#8217;s what =
you want. We can ask if people on the list agree with this. If yes, then =
bingo.</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If not, then we won&#8217;t have a charter update until we agree on =
this text, and consequently we can&#8217;t include the Ofcom reporting =
requirements to the Use Cases and Requirements draft.</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>-</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#040100'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Gabor</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From: ext Peter Stanforth [<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>] <br>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM<br>To: Pete Resnick; <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a><br>Cc: Bajko Gabor =
(Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [paws] =
Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Pete,</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>I share your sentiments. A feedback loop is very desirable but I =
don't think that the implication &nbsp;is well understood. So the =
charter should avoid defining what or how it would be provided until we =
have had chance to get some input and contributions on the =
issue.&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Peter S.</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: Pete =
Resnick &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:presnick@qualcomm.com">presnick@qualcomm.com</a>&gt;<br>To=
: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>Cc: =
Peter Stanforth &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">peter@spectrumbridge.com</a>&gt;=
, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: =
[paws] Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>Andy,<br><br>As I have explained, just saying &quot;report spectrum =
usage&quot; sounds like it may involve a dynamically updating process =
such that any change in spectrum usage, even if it is post-query, needs =
to be reported to the database. That is a *much* larger change than was =
proposed, which is why we had it as &quot;anticipated spectrum =
usage&quot;. I also thought that &quot;intended spectrum usage&quot; was =
a reasonable compromise. But simply &quot;spectrum usage&quot; is =
problematic, and there are several folks who do not agree with this =
change as I have read the list. If you wish to suggest another phrase, =
that's fine. But I can't go to the IESG with your =
text.<br><br>pr<br><br>On 5/3/12 7:30 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a> wrote: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Gabor may =
have a combined view of the proposals - I still support my initial =
proposal of April 15<sup>th</sup>, which was to change the new bullet =
point 5 from &quot;Report to the white space database anticipated =
spectrum usage at a suitable granularity&quot; to &#8220;Report spectrum =
usage to the white space database at a suitable granularity&#8221;. =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy</span></b=
><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>From: Peter Stanforth [<a =
href=3D"mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com">mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com<=
/a>] <br>Sent: 03 May 2012 13:24<br>To: Sago,AJ,Andy,COD R; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [paws] =
Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>What is the proposal?</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:andy.sago@bt.com">andy.sago@bt.com</a>&gt;<br>To: =
&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: [paws] =
Charter update progress</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#04010=
0'>&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Gabor</span></=
b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>There has =
been no reflector discussion since 24</span></b><b><sup><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100=
'>th</span></sup></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'> April UK =
time. Can we now submit the charter proposal to the IESG, or has that =
already happened?</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Thanks</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>&nbsp;</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#040100'>Andy</span></b=
><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><pre><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>-- </span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>Pete Resnick <a =
href=3D"http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/">&lt;http://www.qualcomm.com/~=
presnick/&gt;</a></span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><b><span =
style=3D'color:#040100'>Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: =
(858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'color:#040100'><o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></body></html>
------_=_NextPart_001_01CD2FB0.0DD832C0--

From gerald.chouinard@sympatico.ca  Sat May 12 19:58:18 2012
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Hi Gabor=2C
=20
I would like to point out that=2C after some reflection=2C I think that the=
 reporting of the channels since the last query would be redundant if the W=
SD has to query the database every time it wants to change channel (which w=
ould be normal since the list of available channels may have changed in the=
 meantime). In such case=2C the last channel used would always be a repeat =
of the =91=92anticipated=92=92 channel reported at the end of the last quer=
y.
=20
If the WSD can select a new operating channel at any time amongst the list =
of available channels without having to query again=2C then=2C the number o=
f past channels to be reported may be sizeable since the device could jump =
between these available channels at a rather rapid rate.
=20
Before determining whether reporting this list of past channels is required=
 or not=2C one would need to determine whether the WSD will always need to =
query the database every time it wants to change channel or not. If not=2C =
a reasonable guess at the maximum number of channels to be accommodated in =
this list would need to be made and implemented in the messaging protocol.
=20
Regards=2C
=20
Gerald
=20



From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gab=
or.Bajko@nokia.com
Sent: Friday=2C 11 May=2C 2012 14:01
To: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] Charter update progress
=20
A reporting capability will be included to paws. At minimum=2C the anticipa=
ted usage will be reported in the regulatory domains which require it.
=20
What Amer was asking for is have a capability to report (in addition to the=
 above) also the channels used since the last query. As I mentioned=2C I be=
lieve this type of data can be sent to the db together with the anticipated=
 usage=2C so I do not think this would add any new requirement to the proto=
col itself=2C but would need to be supported by the data model.
=20
So the question is really if people on this list feel paws should build a c=
apability into the data model to report also usage since last query=2C in a=
ddition to anticipated usage=2C or not.
=20
-          Gabor 		 	   		  =

--_6ebfe4bc-5dd9-4e04-aa33-855a1995cea7_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi Gabor=2C<?xml:namespace prefix =3D =
o ns =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp=3B</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I would like to point out that=2C afte=
r some reflection=2C I think that the reporting of the channels since the l=
ast query would be redundant if the WSD has to query the database every tim=
e it wants to change channel (which would be normal since the list of avail=
able channels may have changed in the meantime). In such case=2C the last c=
hannel used would always be a repeat of the =91=92anticipated=92=92 channel=
 reported at the end of the last query.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp=3B</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If the WSD can select a new operating =
channel at any time amongst the list of available channels without having t=
o query again=2C then=2C the number of past channels to be reported may be =
sizeable since the device could jump between these available channels at a =
rather rapid rate.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp=3B</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Before determining whether reporting t=
his list of past channels is required or not=2C&nbsp=3Bone would need to de=
termine whether the WSD will always need to query the database every time i=
t wants to change channel or not. If not=2C a reasonable guess at the maxim=
um number of channels to be accommodated in this list would need to be made=
 and implemented in the messaging protocol.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp=3B</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards=2C<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp=3B</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Gerald<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l=3B COLOR: navy=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp=3B</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center=3B MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal align=3D=
center>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%">
</DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: T=
ahoma=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahom=
a=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]=
 <B>On Behalf Of </B>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday=2C 11 May=
=2C 2012 14:01<BR><B>To:</B> paws@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [paws] Ch=
arter update progress</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><o:p><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Time=
s New Roman">&nbsp=3B</FONT></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Cali=
bri=3B COLOR: #1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A reporting capability will be in=
cluded to paws. At minimum=2C the anticipated usage will be reported in the=
 regulatory domains which require it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Cali=
bri=3B COLOR: #1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp=3B</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Cali=
bri=3B COLOR: #1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What Amer was asking for is have =
a capability to report (in addition to the above) also the channels used si=
nce the last query. As I mentioned=2C I believe this type of data can be se=
nt to the db together with the anticipated usage=2C so I do not think this =
would add any new requirement to the protocol itself=2C but would need to b=
e supported by the data model.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Cali=
bri=3B COLOR: #1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp=3B</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Cali=
bri=3B COLOR: #1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So the question is really if peop=
le on this list feel paws should build a capability into the data model to =
report also usage since last query=2C in addition to anticipated usage=2C o=
r not.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Cali=
bri=3B COLOR: #1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp=3B</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -18pt=3B MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 36pt=3B mso-list: l0 =
level1 lfo1" class=3Dmsolistparagraph><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri=
=3B COLOR: #1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt=3B mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri=
=3B mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri"><SPAN style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">-<SPAN =
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=
=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FON=
T-FAMILY: Calibri=3B COLOR: #1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Gabor<o:p></o:p></S=
PAN></P> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

--_6ebfe4bc-5dd9-4e04-aa33-855a1995cea7_--

From Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com  Tue May 15 17:49:59 2012
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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
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Thread-Topic: 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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Since there were quite a few changes made to the new version -04, let's hav=
e another WGLC for this document.

Therefore, I'd like to initiate a 2nd WG Last Call for comments on http://w=
ww.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.=
txt

Please review the draft and send your comments to the list by June 1st, 201=
2.

If you review the draft and have no comments, send a note to the list that =
the draft is good as it is, we need these notes as much as we need the actu=
al comments.

Thanks, Gabor


From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pro=
basco Scott (Nokia-CIC/Dallas)
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 11:51 AM
To: paws@ietf.org
Subject: [paws] UC&R document

Hello All,

A new version of the Use Cases & Requirements draft has been uploaded. This=
 version of the Internet Draft has addressed all of the issues raised durin=
g Working Group Last Call, including discussion from IETF #83, and is ready=
 to be forwarded to IESG.

Kind Regards,
Raj & Scott

Draft:  http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-=
04.txt

Diff:   http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-u=
secases-rqmts-04

Abstract:
   Portions of the radio spectrum that are assigned to a particular use
   but are unused or unoccupied at specific locations and times are
   defined as "white space".  The concept of allowing additional
   transmissions (which may or may not be licensed) in white space is a
   technique to &quot;unlock&quot; existing spectrum for new use.  An obvio=
us
   requirement is that these additional transmissions do not interfere
   with the assigned use of the spectrum.  One approach to using the
   white space spectrum at a given time and location is to verify with a
   database for available channels.

   This document describes the concept of TV White Spaces.  It also
   describes the problems that need to be addressed to enable white
   space spectrum for additional uses, without causing interference to
   currently assigned use, by querying a database which stores
   information about the channel availability at any given location and
   time.  A number of possible use cases of white space spectrum and
   technology as well as a set of requirements for the database query
   protocol are also described.




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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Since there were quite a =
few changes made to the new version -04, let&#8217;s have another WGLC for =
this document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Therefore, I'd like to in=
itiate a 2<sup>nd</sup> WG Last Call for comments on
<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt=
-usecases-rqmts-04.txt">
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-r=
qmts-04.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please review the draft a=
nd send your comments to the list by June 1st, 2012.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If you review the draft a=
nd have no comments, send a note to the list that the draft is good as it i=
s, we need these notes as much as we need the actual comments.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks, Gabor<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> paws-bou=
nces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Probasco Scott (Nokia-CIC/Dallas)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2012 11:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> paws@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [paws] UC&amp;R document<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Hello All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">A new version of the Use Cases &amp; Requirements draft has b=
een uploaded.&nbsp;This version of the Internet Draft has addressed all of =
the issues raised during Working Group Last Call,
 including discussion from IETF #83, and is ready to be forwarded to IESG.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Kind Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Raj &amp; Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Draft: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paw=
s-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.txt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paw=
s-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Diff: &nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?ur=
l2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04">http://tools.ietf.org/=
rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04</a><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Portions of the radio spectrum that are assigned=
 to a particular use<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; but are unused or unoccupied at specific locatio=
ns and times are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; defined as &quot;white space&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp;T=
he concept of allowing additional<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmissions (which may or may not be licensed)=
 in white space is a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; technique to &amp;quot;unlock&amp;quot; existing=
 spectrum for new use.&nbsp;&nbsp;An obvious<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; requirement is that these additional transmissio=
ns do not interfere<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; with the assigned use of the spectrum.&nbsp;&nbs=
p;One approach to using the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; white space spectrum at a given time and locatio=
n is to verify with a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; database for available channels.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document describes the concept of TV White =
Spaces.&nbsp;&nbsp;It also<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; describes the problems that need to be addressed=
 to enable white<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; space spectrum for additional uses, without caus=
ing interference to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; currently assigned use, by querying a database w=
hich stores<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; information about the channel availability at an=
y given location and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; time.&nbsp;&nbsp;A number of possible use cases =
of white space spectrum and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; technology as well as a set of requirements for =
the database query<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol are also described.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601ED6676008AM1MPN1007mg_--

From peter@spectrumbridge.com  Wed May 16 12:32:49 2012
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To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 15:32:41 -0400
Thread-Topic: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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--_000_CBD970CE25639peterspectrumbridgecom_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
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Gabor,
The latest version has updates that seem inconsistent and I do not see how =
to comply with current FCC rules based on the modification.

The following operational requirement appears to enable both FCC and Ofcom =
approaches :

O.3 The master device MUST identify a database to which it will register, m=
ake channel requests, etc... The master device MAY
select a database for service by discovery at runtime or the master device =
MAY select a database for service by means of a
pre-programmed URI address.

However in the requirements it seems that the ability to support the FCC mo=
del has been removed. Specifically:
It appears that the data model requirements that supported hardcoded URI ad=
dresses for WSDBs have been removed

D.2       The Data Model MUST support specifying the URI address of a white=
 space database.
D.3       The Data Model MUST support specifying the URI address of a natio=
nal listing service.

In addition changes have been made to  the discovery requirement (P.1), and=
 the direct access (P.2) has been removed.
Which is how I get to the concern that I can no longer support the FCC rule=
 that requires a specific relationship between a radio and DB (or DBs)

As a minor editorial comment. The preamble and some of the descriptive text=
 is a little dated. For instance the FCC has issued a 3rd Report and Order =
since this was originally written.
Regards,
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts

Since there were quite a few changes made to the new version -04, let=92s h=
ave another WGLC for this document.

Therefore, I'd like to initiate a 2nd WG Last Call for comments on http://w=
ww.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.=
txt

Please review the draft and send your comments to the list by June 1st, 201=
2.

If you review the draft and have no comments, send a note to the list that =
the draft is good as it is, we need these notes as much as we need the actu=
al comments.

Thanks, Gabor


From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Probasco Scott (Nokia-CIC/Dallas)
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 11:51 AM
To: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: [paws] UC&R document

Hello All,

A new version of the Use Cases & Requirements draft has been uploaded. This=
 version of the Internet Draft has addressed all of the issues raised durin=
g Working Group Last Call, including discussion from IETF #83, and is ready=
 to be forwarded to IESG.

Kind Regards,
Raj & Scott

Draft:  http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-=
04.txt

Diff:   http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-u=
secases-rqmts-04

Abstract:
   Portions of the radio spectrum that are assigned to a particular use
   but are unused or unoccupied at specific locations and times are
   defined as "white space".  The concept of allowing additional
   transmissions (which may or may not be licensed) in white space is a
   technique to &quot;unlock&quot; existing spectrum for new use.  An obvio=
us
   requirement is that these additional transmissions do not interfere
   with the assigned use of the spectrum.  One approach to using the
   white space spectrum at a given time and location is to verify with a
   database for available channels.

   This document describes the concept of TV White Spaces.  It also
   describes the problems that need to be addressed to enable white
   space spectrum for additional uses, without causing interference to
   currently assigned use, by querying a database which stores
   information about the channel availability at any given location and
   time.  A number of possible use cases of white space spectrum and
   technology as well as a set of requirements for the database query
   protocol are also described.




--_000_CBD970CE25639peterspectrumbridgecom_
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252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;=
 -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(4, 1, 0); "><div style=
=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; ">Gabor,</div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; ">The latest ver=
sion has updates that seem inconsistent and I do not see how to comply with=
 current FCC rules based on the modification.</div><div style=3D"font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><br></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin=
-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color=
: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">The following operational requirement appears to enable b=
oth FCC and Ofcom approaches :</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-to=
p: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-=
size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-righ=
t: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-fa=
mily: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">O.3&nbsp;<span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 10.5pt; ">The master device MUST identify a database to which it =
will register, make channel requests, etc... The master device MAY<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right:=
 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0.5pt; ">select a database for service by discovery at runtime&nbsp;<b>or t=
he master device MAY select a database for service by means of a<o:p></o:p>=
</b></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-righ=
t: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-fa=
mily: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 10.5pt; ">pre-programmed URI address.</span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"font-size: 14px; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-le=
ft: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><b><br></b></fo=
nt></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-size: 14px; margin-top: 0in; ma=
rgin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 15px; ">However in the requirements it seems that the a=
bility to support the FCC model has been removed. Specifically:</span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-size: 14px; margin-top: 0in; margin-rig=
ht: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: Calibri, s=
ans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D=
"font-size: 15px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collap=
se: collapse; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium; "><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-=
bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">It a=
ppears that the data model requirements that supported hardcoded URI addres=
ses for WSDBs have been removed<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.=
0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><br></p></span=
></span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse=
; font-size: 15px; ">D.2 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The Data Model MUST support s=
pecifying the URI address of a white space database.</span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; m=
argin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; =
font-size: 15px;">D.3 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;The Data Model MUST support=
 specifying the URI address of a national listing service.<br></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 15px; "><span class=3D"Apple=
-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Calibri; font=
-size: medium; "><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-ri=
ght: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-=
family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><br></p></span></span><span class=3D"Apple-s=
tyle-span" style=3D"font-size: 15px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" sty=
le=3D"border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium; "=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin=
-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,=
 sans-serif; ">In addition changes have been made to &nbsp;the discovery re=
quirement (P.1), and the direct access (P.2) has been removed.<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margi=
n-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; ">Which is how I get to the concern that I can no longer supp=
ort the FCC rule that requires a specific relationship between a radio and =
DB (or DBs)</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-righ=
t: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-fa=
mily: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></span></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0=
in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><font class=3D"Apple-st=
yle-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" styl=
e=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">As a minor editorial comment. The preamble=
 and some of the descriptive text is a little dated. For instance the FCC h=
as issued a 3rd Report and Order since this was originally written.&nbsp;</=
span></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-rig=
ht: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">=
<font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D=
"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">Regards,</span></fo=
nt></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; =
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><font cla=
ss=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-st=
yle-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">Peter S.</span></font></p></=
div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><br>=
</div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:12p=
t; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: m=
edium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BOR=
DER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><s=
pan style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.=
Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabo=
r.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-wei=
ght:bold">To: </span> &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org<=
/a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><sp=
an style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ie=
tf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts<br></div><div><br></div><div xmlns:v=3D=
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office=
:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m=3D"http:=
//schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/=
REC-html40"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered=
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif; ">Since there were quite a few changes made to the new version -04, le=
t=92s have another WGLC for this document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-f=
amily: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; ">Therefore, I'd like to initiate a 2<sup>nd</sup> WG=
 Last Call for comments on
<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt=
-usecases-rqmts-04.txt">
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-r=
qmts-04.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;=
 "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Ple=
ase review the draft and send your comments to the list by June 1st, 2012.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;=
 color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">If you review the d=
raft and have no comments, send a note to the list that the draft is good a=
s it is, we need these notes as much as we need the actual comments.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(=
31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Thanks, Gabor<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 7=
3, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><d=
iv><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-=
family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10p=
t; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> <a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.=
org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">ma=
ilto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Probasco Scott (Nokia-CIC/Dallas)<br><b>Sent:</b> Frida=
y, May 11, 2012 11:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paw=
s@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [paws] UC&amp;R document<o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;col=
or:black">Hello All,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">A new version of the Use Cases=
 &amp; Requirements draft has been uploaded.&nbsp;This version of the Inter=
net Draft has addressed all of the issues raised during Working Group Last =
Call,
 including discussion from IETF #83, and is ready to be forwarded to IESG.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-famil=
y:Consolas;color:black">Kind Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;colo=
r:black">Raj &amp; Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Draft: &nbsp;<a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.txt">ht=
tp://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.txt</a>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font=
-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas;color:black">Diff: &nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org=
/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04">http://tool=
s.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04</a=
><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-fam=
ily:Consolas;color:black">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:=
black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Portions of the radio spectrum that are assigned to a p=
articular use<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; bu=
t are unused or unoccupied at specific locations and times are<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;=
font-family:Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; defined as &quot;white space=
&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp;The concept of allowing additional<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmissions (which may or may not b=
e licensed) in white space is a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:blac=
k">&nbsp;&nbsp; technique to &amp;quot;unlock&amp;quot; existing spectrum f=
or new use.&nbsp;&nbsp;An obvious<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:b=
lack">&nbsp;&nbsp; requirement is that these additional transmissions do no=
t interfere<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; with=
 the assigned use of the spectrum.&nbsp;&nbsp;One approach to using the<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; white space spectru=
m at a given time and location is to verify with a<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; database for available channels.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13=
.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Conso=
las;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document describes the concept of TV Whi=
te Spaces.&nbsp;&nbsp;It also<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp; describes the problems that need to be addressed to enable wh=
ite<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; space spectr=
um for additional uses, without causing interference to<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; currently assigned use, by querying=
 a database which stores<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">&nbs=
p;&nbsp; information about the channel availability at any given location a=
nd<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; time.&nbsp;&n=
bsp;A number of possible use cases of white space spectrum and<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;=
font-family:Consolas;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; technology as well as a set =
of requirements for the database query<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;col=
or:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol are also described.<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family=
:Consolas;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;=
 "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></span></body></html=
>

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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:01:28 +0000
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References: <1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601ED6676@008-AM1MPN1-007.mgdnok.nokia.com> <CBD970CE.25639%peter@spectrumbridge.com>
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Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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Hi Peter,
See my answers inline:

From: ext Peter Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:33 PM
To: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmt=
s

Gabor,
The latest version has updates that seem inconsistent and I do not see how =
to comply with current FCC rules based on the modification.

The following operational requirement appears to enable both FCC and Ofcom =
approaches :

O.3 The master device MUST identify a database to which it will register, m=
ake channel requests, etc... The master device MAY
select a database for service by discovery at runtime or the master device =
MAY select a database for service by means of a
pre-programmed URI address.

However in the requirements it seems that the ability to support the FCC mo=
del has been removed. Specifically:
It appears that the data model requirements that supported hardcoded URI ad=
dresses for WSDBs have been removed
<GB> pre-configuration is always possible. We don't need a separate require=
ment for it.

D.2       The Data Model MUST support specifying the URI address of a white=
 space database.
<GB> after the discovery process, which results in the master device learni=
ng the URI of the DB (which can be pre-configured in some environments), th=
e protocol itself is going to need that URI, not the data model. The above =
D.2 suggested me that the URI would be included in the channel request and =
channel response data itself, which I don't think is necessary.
D.3       The Data Model MUST support specifying the URI address of a natio=
nal listing service.
<GB> same as above.

In addition changes have been made to  the discovery requirement (P.1), and=
 the direct access (P.2) has been removed.
<GB> P.1 and P.2 have been combined. The  requirement to have direct access=
 to an entity is redundant with the basic operating principle of the intern=
et, so that redundant sentence was removed.
Which is how I get to the concern that I can no longer support the FCC rule=
 that requires a specific relationship between a radio and DB (or DBs)
<GB> Pre-configuration is always possible, we do not need an explicit requi=
rement for it. Involving the discovery process is only necessary when one n=
eeds to find the entity it wants to talk to. If that is preconfigured, then=
 the client skips the discovery and contacts directly the entity.
Are you suggesting that including the DB URI into the channel request/respo=
nse is a requirement of FCC? If not, then I do not see how the above change=
s affect the FCC operation.

As a minor editorial comment. The preamble and some of the descriptive text=
 is a little dated. For instance the FCC has issued a 3rd Report and Order =
since this was originally written.
Regards,
Peter S.

From: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>" <Gabor.Bajko@no=
kia.com<mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>>
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts

Since there were quite a few changes made to the new version -04, let's hav=
e another WGLC for this document.

Therefore, I'd like to initiate a 2nd WG Last Call for comments on http://w=
ww.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.=
txt

Please review the draft and send your comments to the list by June 1st, 201=
2.

If you review the draft and have no comments, send a note to the list that =
the draft is good as it is, we need these notes as much as we need the actu=
al comments.

Thanks, Gabor


From: paws-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:paws-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Probasco Scott (Nokia-CIC/Dallas)
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 11:51 AM
To: paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>
Subject: [paws] UC&R document

Hello All,

A new version of the Use Cases & Requirements draft has been uploaded. This=
 version of the Internet Draft has addressed all of the issues raised durin=
g Working Group Last Call, including discussion from IETF #83, and is ready=
 to be forwarded to IESG.

Kind Regards,
Raj & Scott

Draft:  http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-=
04.txt

Diff:   http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-u=
secases-rqmts-04

Abstract:
   Portions of the radio spectrum that are assigned to a particular use
   but are unused or unoccupied at specific locations and times are
   defined as "white space".  The concept of allowing additional
   transmissions (which may or may not be licensed) in white space is a
   technique to &quot;unlock&quot; existing spectrum for new use.  An obvio=
us
   requirement is that these additional transmissions do not interfere
   with the assigned use of the spectrum.  One approach to using the
   white space spectrum at a given time and location is to verify with a
   database for available channels.

   This document describes the concept of TV White Spaces.  It also
   describes the problems that need to be addressed to enable white
   space spectrum for additional uses, without causing interference to
   currently assigned use, by querying a database which stores
   information about the channel availability at any given location and
   time.  A number of possible use cases of white space spectrum and
   technology as well as a set of requirements for the database query
   protocol are also described.




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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Peter,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">See my answers inline:<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ext Pete=
r Stanforth [mailto:peter@spectrumbridge.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley); paws@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecas=
es-rqmts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Gabor,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">The latest version has up=
dates that seem inconsistent and I do not see how to comply with current FC=
C rules based on the modification.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The following operational r=
equirement appears to enable both FCC and Ofcom approaches :<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">O.3&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:black">The master device MUST identify a database to which it will r=
egister,
 make channel requests, etc... The master device MAY</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">select a database for servi=
ce by discovery at runtime&nbsp;<b>or the master device MAY select a databa=
se for service by means of a</b></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">pre-programmed URI addre=
ss.</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lack">However in the requirements it seems that the ability to support the =
FCC model has been removed. Specifically:</span></span><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">It appears that the data =
model requirements that supported hardcoded URI addresses for WSDBs have be=
en removed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&lt;GB&gt; pre-configurat=
ion is always possible. We don&#8217;t need a separate requirement for it.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.5pt;color:#040100">D.2 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The Data Model MUST su=
pport specifying the URI address of a white space database.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&lt;GB&gt; after the disc=
overy process, which results in the master device learning the URI of the D=
B (which can be pre-configured in some environments), the protocol
 itself is going to need that URI, not the data model. The above D.2 sugges=
ted me that the URI would be included in the channel request and channel re=
sponse data itself, which I don&#8217;t think is necessary.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lack">D.3 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;The Data Model MUST support specifying =
the URI address of a national listing service.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#=
1F497D">&lt;GB&gt; same as above.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#040100"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">In addition changes have =
been made to &nbsp;the discovery requirement (P.1), and the direct access (=
P.2) has been removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&lt;GB&gt; P.1 and P.2 ha=
ve been combined. The &nbsp;requirement to have direct access to an entity =
is redundant with the basic operating principle of the internet, so
 that redundant sentence was removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">Which is how I get to the=
 concern that I can no longer support the FCC rule that requires a specific=
 relationship between a radio and DB (or DBs)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&lt;GB&gt; Pre-configurat=
ion is always possible, we do not need an explicit requirement for it. Invo=
lving the discovery process is only necessary when one needs to
 find the entity it wants to talk to. If that is preconfigured, then the cl=
ient skips the discovery and contacts directly the entity.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Are you suggesting that i=
ncluding the DB URI into the channel request/response is a requirement of F=
CC? If not, then I do not see how the above changes affect
 the FCC operation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">As a minor =
editorial comment. The preamble and some of the descriptive text is a littl=
e dated. For instance the FCC has issued a 3rd Report and
 Order since this was originally written.&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Regards,</s=
pan></span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Peter S.</s=
pan></span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.Baj=
ko@nokia.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com">Gabor.B=
ajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-r=
qmts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Since there were quite a =
few changes made to the new version -04, let&#8217;s have another WGLC for =
this document.</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Therefore, I'd like to in=
itiate a 2<sup>nd</sup> WG Last Call for comments on
<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt=
-usecases-rqmts-04.txt">
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-r=
qmts-04.txt</a></span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please review the draft a=
nd send your comments to the list by June 1st, 2012.</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If you review the draft a=
nd have no comments, send a note to the list that the draft is good as it i=
s, we need these notes as much as we need the actual comments.</span><span =
style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks, Gabor</span><span=
 style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#040100">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#040100">
<a href=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">paws-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=
=3D"mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Probasco Scott (Nokia-CIC/Dallas)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2012 11:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [paws] UC&amp;R document</span><span style=3D"color:#040100=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#040100">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Hello All,</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">A new version of the Use Cases &amp; Requirements draft has b=
een uploaded.&nbsp;This version of the Internet Draft has addressed all of =
the issues raised during Working Group Last Call,
 including discussion from IETF #83, and is ready to be forwarded to IESG.<=
/span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Kind Regards,</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Raj &amp; Scott</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Draft: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paw=
s-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.txt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-paw=
s-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04.txt</a></span><span style=3D"color:#040100=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Diff: &nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?ur=
l2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04">http://tools.ietf.org/=
rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts-04</a></span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">Abstract:</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Portions of the radio spectrum that are assigned=
 to a particular use</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; but are unused or unoccupied at specific locatio=
ns and times are</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; defined as &quot;white space&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp;T=
he concept of allowing additional</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmissions (which may or may not be licensed)=
 in white space is a</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; technique to &amp;quot;unlock&amp;quot; existing=
 spectrum for new use.&nbsp;&nbsp;An obvious</span><span style=3D"color:#04=
0100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; requirement is that these additional transmissio=
ns do not interfere</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; with the assigned use of the spectrum.&nbsp;&nbs=
p;One approach to using the</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; white space spectrum at a given time and locatio=
n is to verify with a</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; database for available channels.</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document describes the concept of TV White =
Spaces.&nbsp;&nbsp;It also</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; describes the problems that need to be addressed=
 to enable white</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; space spectrum for additional uses, without caus=
ing interference to</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; currently assigned use, by querying a database w=
hich stores</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; information about the channel availability at an=
y given location and</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; time.&nbsp;&nbsp;A number of possible use cases =
of white space spectrum and</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; technology as well as a set of requirements for =
the database query</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol are also described.</span><span style=
=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"color:#040100"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EDA015008AM1MPN1007mg_--

From jmh@joelhalpern.com  Thu May 17 10:17:06 2012
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:16:31 -0400
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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I beg to differ slightly.
While preconfiguration is always possible, if we leave out the 
requirement to support it, then we are likely to also leave such 
configuration capabilities out of management models, etc.  If it is 
"always possible" then including it in the requirements seems inexpensive.

Yours,
Joel

On 5/17/2012 12:01 PM, Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com wrote:
> O.3 The master device MUST identify a database to which it will
> register, make channel requests, etc... The master device MAY
>
> select a database for service by discovery at runtime *or the master
> device MAY select a database for service by means of a*
>
> *pre-programmed URI address.*
>
> However in the requirements it seems that the ability to support the FCC
> model has been removed. Specifically:
>
> It appears that the data model requirements that supported hardcoded URI
> addresses for WSDBs have been removed
>
> <GB> pre-configuration is always possible. We don’t need a separate
> requirement for it.
>

From Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com  Wed May 23 14:39:27 2012
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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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Sure. Adding (or putting back) a requirement on pre-configuration shouldn't=
 be a problem. We'll work out a requirement which all of us is going to be =
happy with.

In the meantime, I would like to ask more people to review the draft and se=
nd comments to the list. As I mentioned in my previous mail, if you review =
the draft and have no comments, send a note to the list that the draft is g=
ood as it is, we need these notes as much as we need the actual comments.

Thanks, Gabor


-----Original Message-----
From: ext Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:17 AM
To: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Cc: peter@spectrumbridge.com; paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmt=
s

I beg to differ slightly.
While preconfiguration is always possible, if we leave out the requirement =
to support it, then we are likely to also leave such configuration capabili=
ties out of management models, etc.  If it is "always possible" then includ=
ing it in the requirements seems inexpensive.

Yours,
Joel

On 5/17/2012 12:01 PM, Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com wrote:
> O.3 The master device MUST identify a database to which it will=20
> register, make channel requests, etc... The master device MAY
>
> select a database for service by discovery at runtime *or the master=20
> device MAY select a database for service by means of a*
>
> *pre-programmed URI address.*
>
> However in the requirements it seems that the ability to support the=20
> FCC model has been removed. Specifically:
>
> It appears that the data model requirements that supported hardcoded=20
> URI addresses for WSDBs have been removed
>
> <GB> pre-configuration is always possible. We don't need a separate=20
> requirement for it.
>

From nbravin@earthlink.net  Thu May 24 01:16:16 2012
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References: <1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601ED6676@008-AM1MPN1-007.mgdnok.nokia.com> <CBD970CE.25639%peter@spectrumbridge.com> <1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EDA015@008-AM1MPN1-007.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4FB5326F.1060207@joelhalpern.com> <1ECAFF543A2FED4EA2BEB6CACE08E47601EE1E5B@008-AM1MPN1-007.mgdnok.nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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Hi Gabor, Scott, and Raj,=20

Has there been a comparison with the 3rd R & O as suggested earlier that =
affects the Draft and should be addressed now before
we submit and discussion there of?
I am not sure why things are so quiet, but it seems that would be a =
timely thing to do now.

Sincerely, Nancy

On May 23, 2012, at 5:39 PM, <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com> =
<Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com> wrote:

> Sure. Adding (or putting back) a requirement on pre-configuration =
shouldn't be a problem. We'll work out a requirement which all of us is =
going to be happy with.
>=20
> In the meantime, I would like to ask more people to review the draft =
and send comments to the list. As I mentioned in my previous mail, if =
you review the draft and have no comments, send a note to the list that =
the draft is good as it is, we need these notes as much as we need the =
actual comments.
>=20
> Thanks, Gabor
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:17 AM
> To: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
> Cc: peter@spectrumbridge.com; paws@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for =
draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
>=20
> I beg to differ slightly.
> While preconfiguration is always possible, if we leave out the =
requirement to support it, then we are likely to also leave such =
configuration capabilities out of management models, etc.  If it is =
"always possible" then including it in the requirements seems =
inexpensive.
>=20
> Yours,
> Joel
>=20
> On 5/17/2012 12:01 PM, Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com wrote:
>> O.3 The master device MUST identify a database to which it will=20
>> register, make channel requests, etc... The master device MAY
>>=20
>> select a database for service by discovery at runtime *or the master=20=

>> device MAY select a database for service by means of a*
>>=20
>> *pre-programmed URI address.*
>>=20
>> However in the requirements it seems that the ability to support the=20=

>> FCC model has been removed. Specifically:
>>=20
>> It appears that the data model requirements that supported hardcoded=20=

>> URI addresses for WSDBs have been removed
>>=20
>> <GB> pre-configuration is always possible. We don't need a separate=20=

>> requirement for it.
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> paws mailing list
> paws@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws


From peter@spectrumbridge.com  Thu May 24 07:59:28 2012
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From: Peter Stanforth <peter@spectrumbridge.com>
To: Nancy Bravin <nbravin@earthlink.net>, Gabor Bajko <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>,  "scott.probasco@nokia.com" <scott.probasco@nokia.com>, "Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com" <Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 10:59:26 -0400
Thread-Topic: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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Thanks for reminding me. We should also look at the latest Ofcom
publication that has a lot of discussion on master/slave requirements

On ThuMay/24/12 Thu May 24, 4:16 AM, "Nancy Bravin"
<nbravin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Hi Gabor, Scott, and Raj,
>
>Has there been a comparison with the 3rd R & O as suggested earlier that
>affects the Draft and should be addressed now before
>we submit and discussion there of?
>I am not sure why things are so quiet, but it seems that would be a
>timely thing to do now.
>
>Sincerely, Nancy
>
>On May 23, 2012, at 5:39 PM, <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
><Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com> wrote:
>
>> Sure. Adding (or putting back) a requirement on pre-configuration
>>shouldn't be a problem. We'll work out a requirement which all of us is
>>going to be happy with.
>>=20
>> In the meantime, I would like to ask more people to review the draft
>>and send comments to the list. As I mentioned in my previous mail, if
>>you review the draft and have no comments, send a note to the list that
>>the draft is good as it is, we need these notes as much as we need the
>>actual comments.
>>=20
>> Thanks, Gabor
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:17 AM
>> To: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
>> Cc: peter@spectrumbridge.com; paws@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for
>>draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
>>=20
>> I beg to differ slightly.
>> While preconfiguration is always possible, if we leave out the
>>requirement to support it, then we are likely to also leave such
>>configuration capabilities out of management models, etc.  If it is
>>"always possible" then including it in the requirements seems
>>inexpensive.
>>=20
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>=20
>> On 5/17/2012 12:01 PM, Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com wrote:
>>> O.3 The master device MUST identify a database to which it will
>>> register, make channel requests, etc... The master device MAY
>>>=20
>>> select a database for service by discovery at runtime *or the master
>>> device MAY select a database for service by means of a*
>>>=20
>>> *pre-programmed URI address.*
>>>=20
>>> However in the requirements it seems that the ability to support the
>>> FCC model has been removed. Specifically:
>>>=20
>>> It appears that the data model requirements that supported hardcoded
>>> URI addresses for WSDBs have been removed
>>>=20
>>> <GB> pre-configuration is always possible. We don't need a separate
>>> requirement for it.
>>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> paws mailing list
>> paws@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>
>_______________________________________________
>paws mailing list
>paws@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws


From andy.sago@bt.com  Thu May 24 08:35:42 2012
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From: <andy.sago@bt.com>
To: <peter@spectrumbridge.com>, <nbravin@earthlink.net>, <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, <scott.probasco@nokia.com>, <Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 16:35:33 +0100
Thread-Topic: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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--_002_619CDADDCCD2B44380834BE8BF6F714140982553FCEMV62UKRDdoma_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All

There was a new draft from Ofcom last Thursday on the parameters to be exch=
anged between WSDs and a database, which is attached for reference.

Regards

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pet=
er Stanforth
Sent: 24 May 2012 15:59
To: Nancy Bravin; Gabor Bajko; scott.probasco@nokia.com; Basavaraj.Patil@no=
kia.com
Cc: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmt=
s

Thanks for reminding me. We should also look at the latest Ofcom publicatio=
n that has a lot of discussion on master/slave requirements

On ThuMay/24/12 Thu May 24, 4:16 AM, "Nancy Bravin"
<nbravin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Hi Gabor, Scott, and Raj,
>
>Has there been a comparison with the 3rd R & O as suggested earlier=20
>that affects the Draft and should be addressed now before we submit and=20
>discussion there of?
>I am not sure why things are so quiet, but it seems that would be a=20
>timely thing to do now.
>
>Sincerely, Nancy
>
>On May 23, 2012, at 5:39 PM, <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=20
><Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com> wrote:
>
>> Sure. Adding (or putting back) a requirement on pre-configuration=20
>>shouldn't be a problem. We'll work out a requirement which all of us=20
>>is going to be happy with.
>>=20
>> In the meantime, I would like to ask more people to review the draft=20
>>and send comments to the list. As I mentioned in my previous mail, if=20
>>you review the draft and have no comments, send a note to the list=20
>>that the draft is good as it is, we need these notes as much as we=20
>>need the actual comments.
>>=20
>> Thanks, Gabor
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:17 AM
>> To: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
>> Cc: peter@spectrumbridge.com; paws@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for
>>draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
>>=20
>> I beg to differ slightly.
>> While preconfiguration is always possible, if we leave out the=20
>>requirement to support it, then we are likely to also leave such=20
>>configuration capabilities out of management models, etc.  If it is=20
>>"always possible" then including it in the requirements seems=20
>>inexpensive.
>>=20
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>=20
>> On 5/17/2012 12:01 PM, Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com wrote:
>>> O.3 The master device MUST identify a database to which it will=20
>>> register, make channel requests, etc... The master device MAY
>>>=20
>>> select a database for service by discovery at runtime *or the master=20
>>> device MAY select a database for service by means of a*
>>>=20
>>> *pre-programmed URI address.*
>>>=20
>>> However in the requirements it seems that the ability to support the=20
>>> FCC model has been removed. Specifically:
>>>=20
>>> It appears that the data model requirements that supported hardcoded=20
>>> URI addresses for WSDBs have been removed
>>>=20
>>> <GB> pre-configuration is always possible. We don't need a separate=20
>>> requirement for it.
>>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> paws mailing list
>> paws@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>
>_______________________________________________
>paws mailing list
>paws@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws

_______________________________________________
paws mailing list
paws@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws

--_002_619CDADDCCD2B44380834BE8BF6F714140982553FCEMV62UKRDdoma_
Content-Type: application/pdf;
	name="Ofcom WSD regulatory requirements 20120517 (Clean).pdf"
Content-Description: Ofcom WSD regulatory requirements 20120517 (Clean).pdf
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="Ofcom WSD regulatory requirements 20120517 (Clean).pdf";
	size=290489; creation-date="Thu, 17 May 2012 12:18:31 GMT";
	modification-date="Thu, 17 May 2012 12:05:12 GMT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

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Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
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HI Andy, Peter, Gabor and all

Thanks for including the draft. My issue is to be as relevant and up to =
date as possible when we approach the IESG, and that includes possible
adjustments to the PAWS draft. So to you and others, how to change the =
wording, to be inclusive of the FCC, Ofcom, Canada, or any other =
country's
regulations by being general in the protocol statement, but also =
specific to those rules that differ in the FCC or OFcom, or some new
country that wants to do things in a different way by using a "MUST" be =
required if specified by local regulations ?
Yes, I want my cake and be able to eat it too=85But I may not be =
thinking of this is the appropriate manner as far as the members
are concerned. I hope that others can join the conversation and not =
merely abstain involving themselves at this point publicly.
We need to have statements of support or lack of support with reasons =
for either, offer changes, when needed, support for what is=20
OK at this point and then to get the information to Garbor, who needs =
and has asked for it.
And by looking at the new rules in the 3rd R & O from the FCC, and the =
draft attached, what issues have changed that require being addressed?
Thoughts anyone???

Sincerely,

On May 24, 2012, at 11:35 AM, <andy.sago@bt.com> <andy.sago@bt.com> =
wrote:

> All
>=20
> There was a new draft from Ofcom last Thursday on the parameters to be =
exchanged between WSDs and a database, which is attached for reference.
>=20
> Regards
>=20
> Andy
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Peter Stanforth
> Sent: 24 May 2012 15:59
> To: Nancy Bravin; Gabor Bajko; scott.probasco@nokia.com; =
Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com
> Cc: paws@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for =
draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
>=20
> Thanks for reminding me. We should also look at the latest Ofcom =
publication that has a lot of discussion on master/slave requirements
>=20
> On ThuMay/24/12 Thu May 24, 4:16 AM, "Nancy Bravin"
> <nbravin@earthlink.net> wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Gabor, Scott, and Raj,
>>=20
>> Has there been a comparison with the 3rd R & O as suggested earlier=20=

>> that affects the Draft and should be addressed now before we submit =
and=20
>> discussion there of?
>> I am not sure why things are so quiet, but it seems that would be a=20=

>> timely thing to do now.
>>=20
>> Sincerely, Nancy
>>=20
>> On May 23, 2012, at 5:39 PM, <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>=20
>> <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Sure. Adding (or putting back) a requirement on pre-configuration=20
>>> shouldn't be a problem. We'll work out a requirement which all of us=20=

>>> is going to be happy with.
>>>=20
>>> In the meantime, I would like to ask more people to review the draft=20=

>>> and send comments to the list. As I mentioned in my previous mail, =
if=20
>>> you review the draft and have no comments, send a note to the list=20=

>>> that the draft is good as it is, we need these notes as much as we=20=

>>> need the actual comments.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks, Gabor
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ext Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:17 AM
>>> To: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
>>> Cc: peter@spectrumbridge.com; paws@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [paws] 2nd WGLC for
>>> draft-ietf-paws-problem-stmt-usecases-rqmts
>>>=20
>>> I beg to differ slightly.
>>> While preconfiguration is always possible, if we leave out the=20
>>> requirement to support it, then we are likely to also leave such=20
>>> configuration capabilities out of management models, etc.  If it is=20=

>>> "always possible" then including it in the requirements seems=20
>>> inexpensive.
>>>=20
>>> Yours,
>>> Joel
>>>=20
>>> On 5/17/2012 12:01 PM, Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com wrote:
>>>> O.3 The master device MUST identify a database to which it will=20
>>>> register, make channel requests, etc... The master device MAY
>>>>=20
>>>> select a database for service by discovery at runtime *or the =
master=20
>>>> device MAY select a database for service by means of a*
>>>>=20
>>>> *pre-programmed URI address.*
>>>>=20
>>>> However in the requirements it seems that the ability to support =
the=20
>>>> FCC model has been removed. Specifically:
>>>>=20
>>>> It appears that the data model requirements that supported =
hardcoded=20
>>>> URI addresses for WSDBs have been removed
>>>>=20
>>>> <GB> pre-configuration is always possible. We don't need a separate=20=

>>>> requirement for it.
>>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> paws mailing list
>>> paws@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> paws mailing list
>> paws@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> paws mailing list
> paws@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
> <Ofcom WSD regulatory requirements 20120517 (Clean).pdf>


From iesg-secretary@ietf.org  Wed May 30 10:58:04 2012
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Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 10:58:03 -0700
Cc: paws@ietf.org, br@brianrosen.net
Subject: [paws] WG Action: RECHARTER: Protocol to Access WS database (paws)
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The Protocol to Access WS database (paws) working group in the Applications=
 Area of the IETF has been rechartered.  For additional information, please=
 contact the Area Directors or the working group Chairs.

Protocol to Access WS database (paws)
-------------------------------------

 Chairs:
     Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
     Gabor Bajko <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>

 Applications Area Directors:
     Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
     Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>

 Applications Area Advisor:
     Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>

 Mailing Lists:
     General Discussion: paws@ietf.org
     To Subscribe:       https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
     Archive:            http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/paws/

Description of Working Group:

  Background
  =

  Radio spectrum is a limited resource.  National and international
  bodies assign different frequencies for specific uses, and in
  most cases license the rights to use these frequencies.  Locally
  unused spectrum is commonly called "white space" and may be made
  available to other services on a basis of non-interference with
  the primary user of the frequencies concerned (if any). This
  technique can help "unlock" existing spectrum, for example to
  enable the wireless communications industry to provide more
  services over frequencies associated with unused television
  channels.  An obvious requirement is that white space uses must
  not interfere with the primary use of the spectrum.  This is
  achieved through spatial and/or temporal separation of the
  primary user and whitespace user with due consideration made to
  the radio characteristics of the two uses.
  =

  Problem Statement
  =

  The fundamental problem is enabling a radio device to determine, in
  a specific location and at specific time, if any white space is
  available for secondary use.  There are two parties to such an
  interaction:
  =

  1. A database containing records about the protected contours (in
  space and time) of primary spectrum users.  Typically, such databases
  will be populated by information provided by the appropriate spectrum
  regulation bodies and by spectrum licensees.
  =

  2. A radio device that wishes to query such a database. Typically, the
  nature of the query will depend on the needs of the device.
  =

  The contents of white space databases, and the needs of radio devices,
  are being defined elsewhere.  However, these parties need a protocol
  for communication that will enable radio devices to find out what white
  space is available at a given time in a given location.
  =

  It is expected that white space databases will be reachable via the
  Internet, and that radio devices too will have some form of Internet
  connectivity, directly or indirectly.  Therefore, it is appropriate
  to define an Internet-based protocol for querying white space databases
  and receiving responses from such databases.
  =

  In rough outline, such a protocol would enable a radio device that
  knows its location and the current time to complete the following tasks:
  =

  1. Determine the relevant white space database to query.

  2. Connect to the database using a well-defined communication method.

  3. Provide its geolocation and perhaps other data to the database
     using a well-defined format for querying the database.

  4. Receive in return a list of available white space spectrum
     with their characteristics, using a well-defined format for
     returning information.

  5. Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage
     at a suitable granularity.

  Once the device learns of the available white space (e.g., in a TV
  white space implementation, the list of available channels at that
  location), it can then select one of the bands from the list and
  begin to transmit and receive on the selected band.  If the device's
  parameters have changed (e.g., if some amount of time has passed or if
  the device has changed location beyond a specified threshold), it might
  need to query the database again to determine what white space is still
  available.
  =

  Objectives
  =

  The overall goals of this working group are to:
  =

  1. Standardize a mechanism for discovering a white space database.

  2. Standardize a method for communicating with a white space
  database.

  3. Standardize the data formats to be carried over the defined
  database communication method.

  4. Ensure that the discovery mechanism, database access method,
  and query/response formats have appropriate security levels in place.
  =

  By "standardize" is not meant that the working group will necessarily
  develop new technologies.  In completing its work, the group will:
  =

  - Evaluate existing discovery mechanisms to determine if one of
    them provides the necessary application features and security
    properties (or can be extended to do so) for discovering a
    white space database.  Examples might include DNS.
  =

  - Evaluate existing application-layer transport protocols to
    determine if one of them provides the necessary application
    features and security properties (or can be extended to do so)
    for use as a building block for communication between location-
    aware devices and white space databases.  If such a method
    exists, the group will reuse it; if not, the group will develop
    one.  Examples might include HTTP.
  =

  - Develop a method for querying a white space database.  Such
    a method will utilize, so far as possible, the features of
    the application-layer transport protocol and not re-implement
    them in the new protocol. It will include mechanisms to verify
    that the requests and responses come from authorized sources,
    and that they have not been modified in transit.  Examples might
    include LDAP.
  =

  - Define extensible formats for both location-specific queries and
    location-specific responses for interaction with radio white
    space databases.  The group will consider whether existing data
    formats can be reused.
  =

  The protocol must protect both the channel enablement process and the
  privacy of users.  Robust privacy and security mechanisms are needed
  to prevent: device identity spoofing, modification of device requests,
  modification of channel enablement information, impersonation of
  registered database services, and unauthorized disclosure of a device's
  location.  The group will consider whether existing privacy and
  security mechanisms can be reused.
  =

  The task of defining the structure and contents of the databases
  themselves is out of scope.  The group will standardize formats for
  communication between devices and databases, but not the information
  models for the databases, since those models are likely to be
  country-specific or application-specific.  In addition, the particular
  data exchanged between a device and a database might depend on the
  ranges of radio spectrum that are to be used, the requirements of the
  database operators and their governing regulations, and other factors.
  Therefore, the database access method and the query/response data
  formats that are exchanged using that method need to be designed for
  extensibility rather than being tied to any specific spectrum, country,
  or phy/mac/air interface.  For example, the working group should define
  extension points for the database access method and the query/response
  formats, so that use cases other than those currently envisioned can be
  addressed in the future if a community of interest wishes to do so.
  However, the access method and query/response formats will incorporate
  relevant aspects of the parameters needed for the currently envisioned
  use cases to ensure proper operation.
  =

  In accordance with existing IETF processes, the group will communicate
  and invite participation with other relevant standards bodies and
  groups, and if necessary reuse existing liaison relationships or
  request the establishment of new liaison relationships, including but
  not limited to IEEE 802.11af and IEEE 802.22.  In order to ensure that
  it takes into account a broad range of possible use cases and
  requirements, the group should also reach out to other potential
  "customers" for a white space database access method and consider input
  from regulatory entities that are involved in the specification of the
  rules for secondary use of spectrum in specific radio bands.
  =

  Deliverables
  =

  1. A description of the relevant use cases and requirements.  This
  document shall be Informational.  Subject to working group consensus,
  draft-probasco-paws-overview-usecases and draft-patil-paws-problem-stmt
  might be used as a starting point.
  =

  2. A specification of the mechanism for discovering a white space
  database, the method for accessing a white space database, and the
  query/response formats for interacting with a white space database.
  This document shall be Standards Track.

  August 2012 	Submit 'Use Cases and Requirements for Accessing a Radio Whi=
te Space Database' to the IESG for publication as Informational
  Apr 2013 	Submit 'Accessing a Radio White Space Database' to the IESG for=
 publication as Proposed Standard=20

From Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com  Wed May 30 11:15:12 2012
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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Action: RECHARTER: Protocol to Access WS database (paws)
Thread-Index: AQHNPo3PUSogwz7cD0WaE2cYfS647Jbiom3w
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 18:15:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [paws] WG Action: RECHARTER: Protocol to Access WS database (paws)
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Thread-Topic: [paws] WG Action: RECHARTER: Protocol to Access WS database (paws)
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Good to hear

Sent from my Lumia 800
________________________________
From: Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Sent: 5/30/2012 1:15 PM
To: paws@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [paws] WG Action: RECHARTER: Protocol to Access WS database (p=
aws)

As this announcement indicates, paws was re-chartered, the new charter incl=
udes reporting back to the db the anticipated spectrum usage ' at a suitabl=
e granularity '.
- Gabor

-----Original Message-----
From: ext IESG Secretary [mailto:iesg-secretary@ietf.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:58 AM
To: IETF Announcement List
Cc: paws@ietf.org; br@brianrosen.net; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)
Subject: WG Action: RECHARTER: Protocol to Access WS database (paws)

The Protocol to Access WS database (paws) working group in the Applications=
 Area of the IETF has been rechartered.  For additional information, please=
 contact the Area Directors or the working group Chairs.

Protocol to Access WS database (paws)
-------------------------------------

 Chairs:
     Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
     Gabor Bajko <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>

 Applications Area Directors:
     Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
     Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>

 Applications Area Advisor:
     Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>

 Mailing Lists:
     General Discussion: paws@ietf.org
     To Subscribe:       https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
     Archive:            http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/paws/

Description of Working Group:

  Background

  Radio spectrum is a limited resource.  National and international
  bodies assign different frequencies for specific uses, and in
  most cases license the rights to use these frequencies.  Locally
  unused spectrum is commonly called "white space" and may be made
  available to other services on a basis of non-interference with
  the primary user of the frequencies concerned (if any). This
  technique can help "unlock" existing spectrum, for example to
  enable the wireless communications industry to provide more
  services over frequencies associated with unused television
  channels.  An obvious requirement is that white space uses must
  not interfere with the primary use of the spectrum.  This is
  achieved through spatial and/or temporal separation of the
  primary user and whitespace user with due consideration made to
  the radio characteristics of the two uses.

  Problem Statement

  The fundamental problem is enabling a radio device to determine, in
  a specific location and at specific time, if any white space is
  available for secondary use.  There are two parties to such an
  interaction:

  1. A database containing records about the protected contours (in
  space and time) of primary spectrum users.  Typically, such databases
  will be populated by information provided by the appropriate spectrum
  regulation bodies and by spectrum licensees.

  2. A radio device that wishes to query such a database. Typically, the
  nature of the query will depend on the needs of the device.

  The contents of white space databases, and the needs of radio devices,
  are being defined elsewhere.  However, these parties need a protocol
  for communication that will enable radio devices to find out what white
  space is available at a given time in a given location.

  It is expected that white space databases will be reachable via the
  Internet, and that radio devices too will have some form of Internet
  connectivity, directly or indirectly.  Therefore, it is appropriate
  to define an Internet-based protocol for querying white space databases
  and receiving responses from such databases.

  In rough outline, such a protocol would enable a radio device that
  knows its location and the current time to complete the following tasks:

  1. Determine the relevant white space database to query.

  2. Connect to the database using a well-defined communication method.

  3. Provide its geolocation and perhaps other data to the database
     using a well-defined format for querying the database.

  4. Receive in return a list of available white space spectrum
     with their characteristics, using a well-defined format for
     returning information.

  5. Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage
     at a suitable granularity.

  Once the device learns of the available white space (e.g., in a TV
  white space implementation, the list of available channels at that
  location), it can then select one of the bands from the list and
  begin to transmit and receive on the selected band.  If the device's
  parameters have changed (e.g., if some amount of time has passed or if
  the device has changed location beyond a specified threshold), it might
  need to query the database again to determine what white space is still
  available.

  Objectives

  The overall goals of this working group are to:

  1. Standardize a mechanism for discovering a white space database.

  2. Standardize a method for communicating with a white space
  database.

  3. Standardize the data formats to be carried over the defined
  database communication method.

  4. Ensure that the discovery mechanism, database access method,
  and query/response formats have appropriate security levels in place.

  By "standardize" is not meant that the working group will necessarily
  develop new technologies.  In completing its work, the group will:

  - Evaluate existing discovery mechanisms to determine if one of
    them provides the necessary application features and security
    properties (or can be extended to do so) for discovering a
    white space database.  Examples might include DNS.

  - Evaluate existing application-layer transport protocols to
    determine if one of them provides the necessary application
    features and security properties (or can be extended to do so)
    for use as a building block for communication between location-
    aware devices and white space databases.  If such a method
    exists, the group will reuse it; if not, the group will develop
    one.  Examples might include HTTP.

  - Develop a method for querying a white space database.  Such
    a method will utilize, so far as possible, the features of
    the application-layer transport protocol and not re-implement
    them in the new protocol. It will include mechanisms to verify
    that the requests and responses come from authorized sources,
    and that they have not been modified in transit.  Examples might
    include LDAP.

  - Define extensible formats for both location-specific queries and
    location-specific responses for interaction with radio white
    space databases.  The group will consider whether existing data
    formats can be reused.

  The protocol must protect both the channel enablement process and the
  privacy of users.  Robust privacy and security mechanisms are needed
  to prevent: device identity spoofing, modification of device requests,
  modification of channel enablement information, impersonation of
  registered database services, and unauthorized disclosure of a device's
  location.  The group will consider whether existing privacy and
  security mechanisms can be reused.

  The task of defining the structure and contents of the databases
  themselves is out of scope.  The group will standardize formats for
  communication between devices and databases, but not the information
  models for the databases, since those models are likely to be
  country-specific or application-specific.  In addition, the particular
  data exchanged between a device and a database might depend on the
  ranges of radio spectrum that are to be used, the requirements of the
  database operators and their governing regulations, and other factors.
  Therefore, the database access method and the query/response data
  formats that are exchanged using that method need to be designed for
  extensibility rather than being tied to any specific spectrum, country,
  or phy/mac/air interface.  For example, the working group should define
  extension points for the database access method and the query/response
  formats, so that use cases other than those currently envisioned can be
  addressed in the future if a community of interest wishes to do so.
  However, the access method and query/response formats will incorporate
  relevant aspects of the parameters needed for the currently envisioned
  use cases to ensure proper operation.

  In accordance with existing IETF processes, the group will communicate
  and invite participation with other relevant standards bodies and
  groups, and if necessary reuse existing liaison relationships or
  request the establishment of new liaison relationships, including but
  not limited to IEEE 802.11af and IEEE 802.22.  In order to ensure that
  it takes into account a broad range of possible use cases and
  requirements, the group should also reach out to other potential
  "customers" for a white space database access method and consider input
  from regulatory entities that are involved in the specification of the
  rules for secondary use of spectrum in specific radio bands.

  Deliverables

  1. A description of the relevant use cases and requirements.  This
  document shall be Informational.  Subject to working group consensus,
  draft-probasco-paws-overview-usecases and draft-patil-paws-problem-stmt
  might be used as a starting point.

  2. A specification of the mechanism for discovering a white space
  database, the method for accessing a white space database, and the
  query/response formats for interacting with a white space database.
  This document shall be Standards Track.

  August 2012    Submit 'Use Cases and Requirements for Accessing a Radio W=
hite Space Database' to the IESG for publication as Informational
  Apr 2013       Submit 'Accessing a Radio White Space Database' to the IES=
G for publication as Proposed Standard
_______________________________________________
paws mailing list
paws@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws

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<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:11pt">Good to hear =
<br>
<br>
Sent from my Lumia 800<br>
</div>
</div>
<hr>
<span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:10pt; font-weight:b=
old">From:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:10pt">Bajko =
Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:10pt; font-weight:b=
old">Sent:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:10pt">5/30/2=
012 1:15 PM</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:10pt; font-weight:b=
old">To:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:10pt">paws@i=
etf.org</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:10pt; font-weight:b=
old">Subject:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:10pt">Re: [p=
aws] WG Action: RECHARTER: Protocol to Access WS database (paws)</span><br>
<br>
</div>
<font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<div class=3D"PlainText">As this announcement indicates, paws was re-charte=
red, the new charter includes reporting back to the db the anticipated spec=
trum usage ' at a suitable granularity '.<br>
- Gabor<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: ext IESG Secretary [<a href=3D"mailto:iesg-secretary@ietf.org">mailto=
:iesg-secretary@ietf.org</a>]
<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:58 AM<br>
To: IETF Announcement List<br>
Cc: paws@ietf.org; br@brianrosen.net; Bajko Gabor (Nokia-CIC/SiliconValley)=
<br>
Subject: WG Action: RECHARTER: Protocol to Access WS database (paws)<br>
<br>
The Protocol to Access WS database (paws) working group in the Applications=
 Area of the IETF has been rechartered.&nbsp; For additional information, p=
lease contact the Area Directors or the working group Chairs.<br>
<br>
Protocol to Access WS database (paws)<br>
-------------------------------------<br>
<br>
&nbsp;Chairs:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Brian Rosen &lt;br@brianrosen.net&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Gabor Bajko &lt;Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com&gt;<br>
<br>
&nbsp;Applications Area Directors:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Barry Leiba &lt;barryleiba@computer.org&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pete Resnick &lt;presnick@qualcomm.com&gt;<br>
<br>
&nbsp;Applications Area Advisor:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pete Resnick &lt;presnick@qualcomm.com&gt;<br>
<br>
&nbsp;Mailing Lists:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; General Discussion: paws@ietf.org<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To Subscribe:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/paws</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Archive:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pa=
ws/">http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/paws/</a><br>
<br>
Description of Working Group:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; Background<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; Radio spectrum is a limited resource.&nbsp; National and internation=
al<br>
&nbsp; bodies assign different frequencies for specific uses, and in<br>
&nbsp; most cases license the rights to use these frequencies.&nbsp; Locall=
y<br>
&nbsp; unused spectrum is commonly called &quot;white space&quot; and may b=
e made<br>
&nbsp; available to other services on a basis of non-interference with<br>
&nbsp; the primary user of the frequencies concerned (if any). This<br>
&nbsp; technique can help &quot;unlock&quot; existing spectrum, for example=
 to<br>
&nbsp; enable the wireless communications industry to provide more<br>
&nbsp; services over frequencies associated with unused television<br>
&nbsp; channels.&nbsp; An obvious requirement is that white space uses must=
<br>
&nbsp; not interfere with the primary use of the spectrum.&nbsp; This is<br=
>
&nbsp; achieved through spatial and/or temporal separation of the<br>
&nbsp; primary user and whitespace user with due consideration made to<br>
&nbsp; the radio characteristics of the two uses.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; Problem Statement<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; The fundamental problem is enabling a radio device to determine, in<=
br>
&nbsp; a specific location and at specific time, if any white space is<br>
&nbsp; available for secondary use.&nbsp; There are two parties to such an<=
br>
&nbsp; interaction:<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; 1. A database containing records about the protected contours (in<br=
>
&nbsp; space and time) of primary spectrum users.&nbsp; Typically, such dat=
abases<br>
&nbsp; will be populated by information provided by the appropriate spectru=
m<br>
&nbsp; regulation bodies and by spectrum licensees.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; 2. A radio device that wishes to query such a database. Typically, t=
he<br>
&nbsp; nature of the query will depend on the needs of the device.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; The contents of white space databases, and the needs of radio device=
s,<br>
&nbsp; are being defined elsewhere.&nbsp; However, these parties need a pro=
tocol<br>
&nbsp; for communication that will enable radio devices to find out what wh=
ite<br>
&nbsp; space is available at a given time in a given location.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; It is expected that white space databases will be reachable via the<=
br>
&nbsp; Internet, and that radio devices too will have some form of Internet=
<br>
&nbsp; connectivity, directly or indirectly.&nbsp; Therefore, it is appropr=
iate<br>
&nbsp; to define an Internet-based protocol for querying white space databa=
ses<br>
&nbsp; and receiving responses from such databases.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; In rough outline, such a protocol would enable a radio device that<b=
r>
&nbsp; knows its location and the current time to complete the following ta=
sks:<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; 1. Determine the relevant white space database to query.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; 2. Connect to the database using a well-defined communication method=
.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; 3. Provide its geolocation and perhaps other data to the database<br=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; using a well-defined format for querying the datab=
ase.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; 4. Receive in return a list of available white space spectrum<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with their characteristics, using a well-defined f=
ormat for<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; returning information.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; 5. Report to the white space database anticipated spectrum usage<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; at a suitable granularity.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; Once the device learns of the available white space (e.g., in a TV<b=
r>
&nbsp; white space implementation, the list of available channels at that<b=
r>
&nbsp; location), it can then select one of the bands from the list and<br>
&nbsp; begin to transmit and receive on the selected band.&nbsp; If the dev=
ice's<br>
&nbsp; parameters have changed (e.g., if some amount of time has passed or =
if<br>
&nbsp; the device has changed location beyond a specified threshold), it mi=
ght<br>
&nbsp; need to query the database again to determine what white space is st=
ill<br>
&nbsp; available.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; Objectives<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; The overall goals of this working group are to:<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; 1. Standardize a mechanism for discovering a white space database.<b=
r>
<br>
&nbsp; 2. Standardize a method for communicating with a white space<br>
&nbsp; database.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; 3. Standardize the data formats to be carried over the defined<br>
&nbsp; database communication method.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; 4. Ensure that the discovery mechanism, database access method,<br>
&nbsp; and query/response formats have appropriate security levels in place=
.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; By &quot;standardize&quot; is not meant that the working group will =
necessarily<br>
&nbsp; develop new technologies.&nbsp; In completing its work, the group wi=
ll:<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; - Evaluate existing discovery mechanisms to determine if one of<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; them provides the necessary application features and sec=
urity<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; properties (or can be extended to do so) for discovering=
 a<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; white space database.&nbsp; Examples might include DNS.<=
br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; - Evaluate existing application-layer transport protocols to<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; determine if one of them provides the necessary applicat=
ion<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; features and security properties (or can be extended to =
do so)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for use as a building block for communication between lo=
cation-<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aware devices and white space databases.&nbsp; If such a=
 method<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; exists, the group will reuse it; if not, the group will =
develop<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; one.&nbsp; Examples might include HTTP.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; - Develop a method for querying a white space database.&nbsp; Such<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a method will utilize, so far as possible, the features =
of<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the application-layer transport protocol and not re-impl=
ement<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; them in the new protocol. It will include mechanisms to =
verify<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that the requests and responses come from authorized sou=
rces,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and that they have not been modified in transit.&nbsp; E=
xamples might<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; include LDAP.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; - Define extensible formats for both location-specific queries and<b=
r>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; location-specific responses for interaction with radio w=
hite<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; space databases.&nbsp; The group will consider whether e=
xisting data<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; formats can be reused.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; The protocol must protect both the channel enablement process and th=
e<br>
&nbsp; privacy of users.&nbsp; Robust privacy and security mechanisms are n=
eeded<br>
&nbsp; to prevent: device identity spoofing, modification of device request=
s,<br>
&nbsp; modification of channel enablement information, impersonation of<br>
&nbsp; registered database services, and unauthorized disclosure of a devic=
e's<br>
&nbsp; location.&nbsp; The group will consider whether existing privacy and=
<br>
&nbsp; security mechanisms can be reused.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; The task of defining the structure and contents of the databases<br>
&nbsp; themselves is out of scope.&nbsp; The group will standardize formats=
 for<br>
&nbsp; communication between devices and databases, but not the information=
<br>
&nbsp; models for the databases, since those models are likely to be<br>
&nbsp; country-specific or application-specific.&nbsp; In addition, the par=
ticular<br>
&nbsp; data exchanged between a device and a database might depend on the<b=
r>
&nbsp; ranges of radio spectrum that are to be used, the requirements of th=
e<br>
&nbsp; database operators and their governing regulations, and other factor=
s.<br>
&nbsp; Therefore, the database access method and the query/response data<br=
>
&nbsp; formats that are exchanged using that method need to be designed for=
<br>
&nbsp; extensibility rather than being tied to any specific spectrum, count=
ry,<br>
&nbsp; or phy/mac/air interface.&nbsp; For example, the working group shoul=
d define<br>
&nbsp; extension points for the database access method and the query/respon=
se<br>
&nbsp; formats, so that use cases other than those currently envisioned can=
 be<br>
&nbsp; addressed in the future if a community of interest wishes to do so.<=
br>
&nbsp; However, the access method and query/response formats will incorpora=
te<br>
&nbsp; relevant aspects of the parameters needed for the currently envision=
ed<br>
&nbsp; use cases to ensure proper operation.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; In accordance with existing IETF processes, the group will communica=
te<br>
&nbsp; and invite participation with other relevant standards bodies and<br=
>
&nbsp; groups, and if necessary reuse existing liaison relationships or<br>
&nbsp; request the establishment of new liaison relationships, including bu=
t<br>
&nbsp; not limited to IEEE 802.11af and IEEE 802.22.&nbsp; In order to ensu=
re that<br>
&nbsp; it takes into account a broad range of possible use cases and<br>
&nbsp; requirements, the group should also reach out to other potential<br>
&nbsp; &quot;customers&quot; for a white space database access method and c=
onsider input<br>
&nbsp; from regulatory entities that are involved in the specification of t=
he<br>
&nbsp; rules for secondary use of spectrum in specific radio bands.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; Deliverables<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; 1. A description of the relevant use cases and requirements.&nbsp; T=
his<br>
&nbsp; document shall be Informational.&nbsp; Subject to working group cons=
ensus,<br>
&nbsp; draft-probasco-paws-overview-usecases and draft-patil-paws-problem-s=
tmt<br>
&nbsp; might be used as a starting point.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; 2. A specification of the mechanism for discovering a white space<br=
>
&nbsp; database, the method for accessing a white space database, and the<b=
r>
&nbsp; query/response formats for interacting with a white space database.<=
br>
&nbsp; This document shall be Standards Track.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; August 2012&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Submit 'Use Cases and Requirements for=
 Accessing a Radio White Space Database' to the IESG for publication as Inf=
ormational<br>
&nbsp; Apr 2013&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Submit 'Accessing a Rad=
io White Space Database' to the IESG for publication as Proposed Standard
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
paws mailing list<br>
paws@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/paws</a><br>
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From Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com  Wed May 30 11:21:57 2012
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From: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>
To: <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: timeslots for PAWS in the upcoming Vancouver F2F
Thread-Index: Ac0+kEJUhbpEW4ySQWiSgjjLjSbmoQ==
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 18:21:49 +0000
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Folks,

I need to request a timeslot for PAWS at the upcoming Vancouver F2F meeting=
.
But in order to do that, I will need to know what drafts are coming up befo=
re the deadline. As a reminder, the use case and requirements document is b=
eing finalized, I do not expect the need for that to be presented in the F2=
F; is there going to be any documents on db discovery, any potential update=
s or new documents to the data model and protocol framework?
Please let me know *during this week*, as the deadline to request for a WG =
timeslot is on Monday.

Thanks, Gabor

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Folks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I need to request a timeslot for PAWS at the upcomin=
g Vancouver F2F meeting.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But in order to do that, I will need to know what dr=
afts are coming up before the deadline. As a reminder, the use case and req=
uirements document is being finalized, I do not expect the need for that to=
 be presented in the F2F; is there
 going to be any documents on db discovery, any potential updates or new do=
cuments to the data model and protocol framework?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please let me know *during this week*, as the deadli=
ne to request for a WG timeslot is on Monday.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, Gabor<o:p></o:p></p>
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From sdas@appcomsci.com  Wed May 30 19:39:46 2012
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From: "Das, Subir" <sdas@appcomsci.com>
To: "Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com" <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, "paws@ietf.org" <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: timeslots for PAWS in the upcoming Vancouver F2F
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Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 02:38:28 +0000
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Hi Gabor,
We had some offline discussions with few folks after Paris meeting and we w=
ill update the draft before Vancouver meeting deadline.

Thanks,
-Subir

From: paws-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gab=
or.Bajko@nokia.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 2:22 PM
To: paws@ietf.org
Subject: [paws] timeslots for PAWS in the upcoming Vancouver F2F

Folks,

I need to request a timeslot for PAWS at the upcoming Vancouver F2F meeting=
.
But in order to do that, I will need to know what drafts are coming up befo=
re the deadline. As a reminder, the use case and requirements document is b=
eing finalized, I do not expect the need for that to be presented in the F2=
F; is there going to be any documents on db discovery, any potential update=
s or new documents to the data model and protocol framework?
Please let me know *during this week*, as the deadline to request for a WG =
timeslot is on Monday.

Thanks, Gabor

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Gabor,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">We had some offline di=
scussions with few folks after Paris meeting and we will update the draft b=
efore Vancouver meeting deadline.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Subir <o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> paws-bou=
nces@ietf.org [mailto:paws-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 30, 2012 2:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> paws@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [paws] timeslots for PAWS in the upcoming Vancouver F2F<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Folks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I need to request a timeslot for PAWS at the upcomin=
g Vancouver F2F meeting.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But in order to do that, I will need to know what dr=
afts are coming up before the deadline. As a reminder, the use case and req=
uirements document is being finalized, I do not expect the need for that to=
 be presented in the F2F; is there
 going to be any documents on db discovery, any potential updates or new do=
cuments to the data model and protocol framework?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please let me know *during this week*, as the deadli=
ne to request for a WG timeslot is on Monday.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, Gabor<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_AAC987F0CC2C7845A9FBD8A36D52E12D8F7391rrcatsexmb1_--

From Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com  Thu May 31 20:41:22 2012
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From: <Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com>
To: <Gabor.Bajko@nokia.com>, <paws@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [paws] timeslots for PAWS in the upcoming Vancouver F2F
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--_000_CBEDA3EA1F721basavarajpatilnokiacom_
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Hi Gabor,

We will be submitting a database discovery I-D and will appreciate a timesl=
ot to discuss the proposal.

-Raj

From: Gabor Bajko <gabor.bajko@nokia.com<mailto:gabor.bajko@nokia.com>>
Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 1:21 PM
To: "paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.org>" <paws@ietf.org<mailto:paws@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: [paws] timeslots for PAWS in the upcoming Vancouver F2F

Folks,

I need to request a timeslot for PAWS at the upcoming Vancouver F2F meeting=
.
But in order to do that, I will need to know what drafts are coming up befo=
re the deadline. As a reminder, the use case and requirements document is b=
eing finalized, I do not expect the need for that to be presented in the F2=
F; is there going to be any documents on db discovery, any potential update=
s or new documents to the data model and protocol framework?
Please let me know *during this week*, as the deadline to request for a WG =
timeslot is on Monday.

Thanks, Gabor

--_000_CBEDA3EA1F721basavarajpatilnokiacom_
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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Gabor,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We will be submitting a database discovery I-D and will appreciate a t=
imeslot to discuss the proposal.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Raj</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Gabor Bajko &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:gabor.bajko@nokia.com">gabor.bajko@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, May 30, 2012 1:21 =
PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ie=
tf.org">paws@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paws@ietf.org">paws@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[paws] timeslots for PAWS =
in the upcoming Vancouver F2F<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Folks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I need to request a timeslot for PAWS at the upcomin=
g Vancouver F2F meeting.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But in order to do that, I will need to know what dr=
afts are coming up before the deadline. As a reminder, the use case and req=
uirements document is being finalized, I do not expect the need for that to=
 be presented in the F2F; is there
 going to be any documents on db discovery, any potential updates or new do=
cuments to the data model and protocol framework?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please let me know *during this week*, as the deadli=
ne to request for a WG timeslot is on Monday.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, Gabor<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CBEDA3EA1F721basavarajpatilnokiacom_--
