From glenzorn@gmail.com Sat Oct 1 23:42:09 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pppext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pppext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B98121F8D40 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 23:42:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RLW0iyKpdakl for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 23:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f50.google.com (mail-pz0-f50.google.com [209.85.210.50]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2CE21F8D3E for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 23:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pzk37 with SMTP id 37so8590729pzk.9 for ; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 23:45:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JJnvnSu0J4ruxd/T73WeJi/HQfPbMfPkxoz24yCpmyo=; b=iqdTGtlCiAxEMdpUGHbOuVuFR/wdYjlFkAjSzZYYORjC2toV/vid68gB4oHdVerxgj nm9UIylbO0ZuICiOA5BbDqxacsvREyLKgHsIss/s2T0qf6+Ssjtru1cl5ODJZtw8KCSQ EPfDWT0Flyt5VVCupEe6idlKqmqNv3VrBA4nA= Received: by 10.68.10.70 with SMTP id g6mr70255624pbb.65.1317537906111; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 23:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.98] (ppp-58-11-250-60.revip2.asianet.co.th. [58.11.250.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u1sm38662188pbr.9.2011.10.01.23.45.00 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 01 Oct 2011 23:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E88086A.6090301@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 13:44:58 +0700 From: Glen Zorn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Allen Simpson References: <4E82A074.4030406@gmail.com> <4E8453FD.10407@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4E8453FD.10407@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: pppext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG X-BeenThere: pppext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: PPP Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:42:09 -0000 On 9/29/2011 6:18 PM, William Allen Simpson wrote: > On 9/28/11 12:20 AM, Glen Zorn wrote: >> Actually, there is one useful thing that this WG could do before its >> demise: update or obsolete RFC 3818 so that necessary work can be done >> when it (the WG) is gone. >> > Glen, what needs to be changed? I didn't pay any particular attention > to it at the time, You're not alone, Bill: not much attention was called to it (at least in pppext). It was an individual submission (kind of ironic, considering that the evil it purports to fix is the lack of WG review). IIRC, I was unaware of its existence until the announcement of its publication. > but this really looks like a one-off RFC to update > some kind of IANA considerations. It doesn't appear to be idiotic. Not idiotic at all; the author is not an idiot. Diabolical, maybe, but not idiotic. ... From william.allen.simpson@gmail.com Sun Oct 2 04:11:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pppext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pppext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3556A21F8E4F for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 04:11:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.485 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.485 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7+p5MaCu7YQT for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 04:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52AF21F8DB2 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 04:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iaby26 with SMTP id y26so4837848iab.31 for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 04:14:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nhMIjvmdYE6dIq/3bpiCzPpnsg+8PNhO8qBAMERXb9E=; b=WO2m22qt1ficMhHPrubhnSTNGUrw7VjNow+y5gUBvE4dvVpqTX1rOkk+sYHKfXPazb 1+V0xKzjVtftplKwDkf6TlgCcb6DE2st/y3rIZ+qwj8qoTLVLqTya3kuc6g08f1D1dQD FHmBG3piQ6dsM3dqq0rJAnpzQ9yN9ssWwsiAU= Received: by 10.231.82.131 with SMTP id b3mr20674285ibl.74.1317554069664; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 04:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wastrel-3.local (c-68-40-194-239.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. [68.40.194.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bk20sm21471660ibb.2.2011.10.02.04.14.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 02 Oct 2011 04:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E884792.5050200@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 07:14:26 -0400 From: William Allen Simpson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 Thunderbird/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Glen Zorn References: <4E82A074.4030406@gmail.com> <4E8453FD.10407@gmail.com> <4E88086A.6090301@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4E88086A.6090301@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: pppext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG X-BeenThere: pppext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: PPP Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 11:11:32 -0000 On 10/2/11 2:44 AM, Glen Zorn wrote: > On 9/29/2011 6:18 PM, William Allen Simpson wrote: >> On 9/28/11 12:20 AM, Glen Zorn wrote: >>> Actually, there is one useful thing that this WG could do before its >>> demise: update or obsolete RFC 3818 so that necessary work can be done >>> when it (the WG) is gone. >>> >> Glen, what needs to be changed? I didn't pay any particular attention >> to it at the time, > > You're not alone, Bill: not much attention was called to it (at least in > pppext). It was an individual submission (kind of ironic, considering > that the evil it purports to fix is the lack of WG review). IIRC, I was > unaware of its existence until the announcement of its publication. > It _was_ an odd thing for an individual submission, but I wasn't too worried about it, as it was proposed in a draft sent to the list. I went back and looked at my list archives, and found that I'd not even ever read half the messages about it. It came out of a series of posts on the Subject: Re: Reigning in "bad" extensions to PPP. At the time, I did read the first few messages with each new Subject line: proposed draft IANA Considerations I-D ACTION:draft-schryver-pppext-iana-00.txt IANA PPP considerations IANA Considerations for PPP to Proposed Standard Again, what needs to be changed? >> but this really looks like a one-off RFC to update >> some kind of IANA considerations. It doesn't appear to be idiotic. > > Not idiotic at all; the author is not an idiot. Diabolical, maybe, but > not idiotic. > I've an informal personal rule going back to the early '90s against responding to Schryver's usual provocative rants, and had kill filed him for some years. I'd say more of a troll than diabolical. From d3e3e3@gmail.com Sun Oct 2 21:26:56 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pppext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pppext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 888F021F84B7 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:26:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.953 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.953 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.354, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FuzkhqvGoTLi for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com (mail-bw0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0661F0C35 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bkaq10 with SMTP id q10so5258760bka.31 for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 21:29:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=E4aDMDjbK7E+0PDdUDduirz+UPveEMRADH+zrLjz8NU=; b=ZJN1YuJNX72Lk0Ksnsg7i8T6CPnEeJFPdFeHuKzQG4e1eH/BlLX50o/ym0aJa2M7SL ta6CyJs0G7f9Y+sHFgyeDIGX9vuHxCPahHxYAxLOyXGNJ7FUypCo2Upefovr8bPjTO51 cMrUf72XdDZdj1QK0gLgLjq5nLQuX0QMpfRIA= Received: by 10.223.62.134 with SMTP id x6mr19305751fah.39.1317616196469; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 21:29:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.22.9 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:29:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201109281348.p8SDm4ui051075@calcite.rhyolite.com> References: <4E82A074.4030406@gmail.com> <201109281348.p8SDm4ui051075@calcite.rhyolite.com> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 00:29:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: Vernon Schryver Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: pppext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG X-BeenThere: pppext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: PPP Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 04:26:56 -0000 Hi, On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Vernon Schryver wrote: >> From: Glen Zorn > >> Actually, there is one useful thing that this WG could do before its >> demise: update or obsolete RFC 3818 so that necessary work can be done >> when it (the WG) is gone. > > RFC 3818 does nothing but require that IANA demand IETF consensus (not > necessarily consensus in this WG) before assigning new numbers in some > address spaces. =A0... > > ... Actually, you can't make IANA Consideration criteria for assignment dependent on approval by a Working Group because IETF Working Groups are considered transient entities, notwithstanding that some WGs have been around for a long time. Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D =A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=A0=A0 +1-508-333-2270 (cell) =A0155 Beaver Street,=A0Milford, MA 01757 USA =A0d3e3e3@gmail.com From d3e3e3@gmail.com Sun Oct 2 21:27:24 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pppext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pppext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28BE21F84D3 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.348, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h+cvTLA2gmEN for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com (mail-bw0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1738321F849B for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-bw0-f44.google.com with SMTP id q10so5258760bka.31 for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 21:30:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xiiAUuHjnED0zXZ0edzHXw3oeGAe9sdXg9tD862hLak=; b=uEgfqXJC1pWWM/20ySoTJSzQsU6v39JbIyX9P5VTL5s1BrIKCkCzRdoSa3MQ6woVfc anCj1FpoeuX96ZBw6lwTAE/zi3Bnpo4SKkl7qoszptyCEBHfl1428YgQC7bkGt4qMfEh rv05YRpkOrxIxx/98vFQbXxXN8yt6Mp/TTKjE= Received: by 10.223.97.220 with SMTP id m28mr23251288fan.20.1317616225274; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 21:30:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.22.9 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:30:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E884792.5050200@gmail.com> References: <4E82A074.4030406@gmail.com> <4E8453FD.10407@gmail.com> <4E88086A.6090301@gmail.com> <4E884792.5050200@gmail.com> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 00:30:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: William Allen Simpson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: pppext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG X-BeenThere: pppext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: PPP Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 04:27:24 -0000 Hi Bill, I don't think your personal opinion of Vernon Schryver is relevant or appropriate to be posted here. Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D =A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=A0=A0 +1-508-333-2270 (cell) =A0155 Beaver Street,=A0Milford, MA 01757 USA =A0d3e3e3@gmail.com