From zongning@huawei.com Wed Dec 2 01:40:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D47E28C175 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:40:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yezv7mkhOU53 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BCBB28C173 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KU000LNQQPCPQ@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:36:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KU0008SWQPCYY@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:36:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from z63316 ([10.164.12.81]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KU000424QPBBR@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:36:48 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:36:45 +0800 From: Ning Zong In-reply-to: <200911271012084689269@chinamobile.com> To: 'zhangyunfei' , ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <004501ca7332$f6efa520$510ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_G5EBir5eU9mtlCobxqqhYw)" Thread-index: AcpvBxDAAqUDUbf6SLCC1zIAYR+mTwEKLNgw Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:40:33 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_G5EBir5eU9mtlCobxqqhYw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, Folks, Overall I support this charter. I have some further suggestions on the charter. Please see below: . The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, ALTO and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, ALTO, and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to P2PSIP, ALTO, MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such extensions and present to the respective working groups. [update] >> The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, ALTO and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline of other IETF works. If PPSP determines that extensions to other IETF works are needed, PPSP will seek to define such extensions and present to the respective working groups. [new] >> The design of PPSP will investigate various media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). Any other suggestions and comments? BR, Ning Zong _____ From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of zhangyunfei Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:12 AM To: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] charter discussion Dear all, According to the consensus in IETF 76 PPSP BOF, it's necessary to update the charter with the comments received both in the mailing list and in the meeting into consideration. Any modification suggestion on the charter is high appreciated. If there are more comments for the charter, please let us know so that we can make it better. BR Yunfei _____ zhangyunfei 2009-11-27 --Boundary_(ID_G5EBir5eU9mtlCobxqqhYw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, = Folks,

 <= /span>

Overall I support = this charter. I have some further suggestions on the charter. Please see = below:

 <= /span>

•         The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but = requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, = ALTO and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, ALTO, = and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to P2PSIP, ALTO, = MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such extensions and present to the respective working groups.=

[update]

>> The work = planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close participation with, = work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, ALTO and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG = assumes that it cannot modify baseline of other IETF works. If PPSP determines = that extensions to other IETF works are needed, PPSP will seek to define such extensions and present to the respective working = groups.

 <= /span>

[new]

>> The = design of PPSP will investigate various media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into media description (e.g. chunk = description in peer protocol).

 <= /span>

Any other = suggestions and comments?

 <= /span>

BR,

Ning = Zong

 <= /span>

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of zhangyunfei
Sent: Friday, November = 27, 2009 10:12 AM
To: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: [ppsp] charter = discussion

 

Dear = all,

   According to the consensus in = IETF 76 PPSP BOF, it's necessary to update the charter with the = comments received both in the mailing list and in the meeting into = consideration.

   Any modification suggestion on = the charter is high appreciated. If there are more comments for = the charter, please let us know so that we can make it = better.

 

BR

Yunfei

 

zhangyunfei

2009-11-27

--Boundary_(ID_G5EBir5eU9mtlCobxqqhYw)-- From gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com Wed Dec 2 11:54:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89723A6784 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:54:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SoPIa3lHOruJ for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:54:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (mailgw4.ericsson.se [193.180.251.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09E453A6403 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:54:00 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b7b36ae000005786-b2-4b16c5ceb8b1 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DF.DE.22406.EC5C61B4; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:53:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.172]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:53:50 +0100 Received: from [131.160.126.206] ([131.160.126.206]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:53:49 +0100 Message-ID: <4B16C5CC.4020304@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:53:48 +0200 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ppsp@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2009 19:53:49.0953 (UTC) FILETIME=[2AD0EF10:01CA7389] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: [ppsp] Minutes from the BOF X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:54:02 -0000 Hi, we have uploaded the draft minutes of our BOF meeting in Japan: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ppsp.txt Cheers, Gonzalo From albertojgc@gmail.com Wed Dec 2 13:21:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3763A690D for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:21:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.242 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.242 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.057, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PVWU9DixYLGR for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f223.google.com (mail-bw0-f223.google.com [209.85.218.223]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15AED3A6849 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:21:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by bwz23 with SMTP id 23so634793bwz.29 for ; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:21:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=LcqeldXBz4UYP89P32RIV86oGiuXGMKRD3+7gX1qYAU=; b=xRUJPA6rPbWrUKCsV7QRSFdPfQ4p2BnaMe+u32npgVz5mLWF2u6TOHfQDnUXFTV5Wn u1VUHQGG+vBXoHMB4U7+DKeVqq2lNL9KF383gYMKMOWQzreRjOOeArdLqEE2q79pSYjI lyw0rF/V+3hP3OAA+0lzhhik7VlVBZlD3ukRA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=koluq8tyoaCsA48snrw89+YEwZBOZssuFR1+nv3Hi6INanMQq+o811QRjCJjRp5b2i LFSSee+roFUESbBXFdlWgtM3QlsJvswpgyEee2WDKNUMxMZ1x3B6A4vBdJYbHVsiFjcP Qpb6usJf+z0E9bGnuGPanDVLwAwGJsJMUYu2E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.20.82 with SMTP id e18mr664319bkb.168.1259788884776; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:21:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 22:21:24 +0100 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela?= To: ppsp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:21:37 -0000 Hi all, Just one comment. I would generalize the following: [new] The design of PPSP will investigate various media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). According to the following: [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multiple streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). This way, we don't focus only on media coding techniques and we leave the door open for other approaches such as media synchronization (audio, video, etc.). BR, -- Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Wed Dec 9 18:56:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF94B3A6A17 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:56:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.784 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.784 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.695, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_83=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a6kqX1N-gWtD for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:56:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E902F3A6A58 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:56:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.126]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009121011043313-5459 ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:04:33 +0800 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:56:00 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Ning Zong" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <004501ca7332$f6efa520$510ca40a@china.huawei.com> Message-ID: <200912101055598909707@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-10 11:04:33, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-10 10:56:04, Serialize complete at 2009-12-10 10:56:04 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon267531042412_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing 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core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41CA3A693C for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:08:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.352, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SARE_UNSUB18=0.131, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ubD219HN6hKW for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D633A6804 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.126]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009121011163994-5968 ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:16:39 +0800 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:08:06 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "=?gb2312?B?QWxiZXJ0b19Kb3PpX0dvbnrhbGV6X0NlbGE=?=" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: Message-ID: <200912101108062653184@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-10 11:16:39, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-10 11:08:09, Serialize complete at 2009-12-10 11:08:09 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon740323026570_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 03:08:23 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon740323026570_===== 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Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA9D3A6959 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:40:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.26 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.26 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.482, BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_UNSUB18=0.131] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NAOUPD2qC1nW for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:40:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com (szxga02-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E33BB3A6359 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:40:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KUF00D193IKKU@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:39:56 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KUF0020W3IKUF@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:39:56 +0800 (CST) Received: from g00107907 ([10.164.12.64]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KUF00GS03IJF3@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:39:56 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:39:55 +0800 From: "Y.J. Gu" In-reply-to: <200912101108062653184@chinamobile.com> To: 'zhangyunfei' , =?gb2312?B?J0FsYmVydG9fSm9z6V9Hb2564Wxlel9DZWxhJw==?= , ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <001e01ca794a$710feb90$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SjzBQ/Z/LRQdTFzC86HPsw)" Thread-index: Acp5RhpWcT+DXrJgRie40NoKB2J9sQAAbZIA Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 03:40:11 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_SjzBQ/Z/LRQdTFzC86HPsw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I agree that research in media coding is meaningful in PPSP, as we have discussed in the early posts. However, transmission IMHO is out the scope of PPSP. The main aim of = PPSP, either Tracker protocol or peer protocol, is to help peers find where to = get (parts of )the stream. The transmission, including synchronization, can = be guaranteed by other Protocol, e.g. RTSP. We don't restrict which = protocol a peer should use to get the stream, as long as both sides of the session = come to a consensus.=20 At this stage, I think we'd better not make the scope too wide and amphibolous, except that there are evidences that transmission will = impact P2P streaming protocol. Can anybody give some clues? =20 Regards Yingjie Gu =20 _____ =20 From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of zhangyunfei Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:08 AM To: Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion Hi Alberto, I agree that it's very important to think over media description with media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence as follows: [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multiple streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various = media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). =20 [Update] >>The design of PPSP will consider the senario of transmission of multiple=20 streams (layered media). This includes considering variou media descriptions=20 (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol) after investigating different media coding=20 mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the = protocol. =20 This way,we leave room for some other approches while keep the scope in = the signaling domain. =20 BR Yunfei =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei 2009-12-10 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-03 05:29:32 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] charter discussion =20 Hi all, =20 Just one comment. =20 I would generalize the following: =20 [new] The design of PPSP will investigate various media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into = media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). =20 According to the following: =20 [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multiple streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various = media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). =20 This way, we don't focus only on media coding techniques and = we leave the door open for other approaches such as media = synchronization (audio, video, etc.). =20 BR, =20 -- =20 Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation _______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp --Boundary_(ID_SjzBQ/Z/LRQdTFzC86HPsw) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
I agree that research = in media=20 coding is meaningful in PPSP, as we have discussed in the early=20 posts.
However, transmission = IMHO is out=20 the scope of PPSP. The main aim of PPSP, either Tracker protocol=20 or peer protocol, is to help peers find where to get (parts of = )the=20 stream.  The transmission, including synchronization, can be=20 guaranteed by other Protocol, e.g. RTSP. We don't restrict which = protocol a peer=20 should use to get the stream, as long as both sides of the = session come to=20 a consensus. 
At this stage, I think = we'd better=20 not make the scope too wide and amphibolous, except that there are = evidences=20 that transmission will impact P2P streaming = protocol.
Can anybody give some=20 clues?
 

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = zhangyunfei
Sent:=20 Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:08 AM
To: = Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela;=20 ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter=20 discussion

Hi = Alberto,
   = I agree=20 that it's very important to think over media = description with=20 media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence = as=20 follows:
[new]  The  design  of  PPSP  will=20  consider  transmission  of  multiple
streams  (layered  media).  This  includes =  to=20  investigate  various  media
coding  mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC) =  to=20  incorporate  their  features  into
media  description  (e.g.  chunk  description =  in  peer  protocol).
 
[Update]
>>The =  design=20  of  PPSP  will  consider  the senario of=20 transmission  of  multiple=20
streams  (layered  media). =  This=20  includes considering variou media=20 descriptions
(e.g. chunk=20 description in peer protocol) after investigating different media = coding=20
mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in = the=20 protocol.
 
This way,we leave room for some other = approches while=20 keep the scope in the signaling domain.
 
BR
Yunfei
 
zhangyunfei
2009-12-10
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA=20 Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA=20 2009-12-03 05:29:32
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA=20 ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] charter=20 discussion
 
Hi  all,
 
Just  one  comment.
 
I  would  generalize  the  following:
 
[new]  The  design  of  PPSP  will=20  investigate  various  media  coding
mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC)  to =  incorporate=20  their  features  into  media
description  (e.g.  chunk  description  in =  peer=20  protocol).
 
According  to  the  following:
 
[new]  The  design  of  PPSP  will=20  consider  transmission  of  multiple
streams  (layered  media).  This  includes =  to=20  investigate  various  media
coding  mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC) =  to=20  incorporate  their  features  into
media  description  (e.g.  chunk  description =  in  peer  protocol).
 
This  way,  we  don't  focus  only =  on=20  media  coding  techniques  and  we =  leave
the  door  open  for  other  approaches=20  such  as  media  synchronization
(audio,  video,  etc.).
 
BR,
 
--  
Alberto  Jose  Gonzalez  Cela
Universitat  Politecnica  de  Catalunya  /=20  i2CAT  Foundation
_______________________________________________
ppsp  mailing  list
ppsp@ietf.org
=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
--Boundary_(ID_SjzBQ/Z/LRQdTFzC86HPsw)-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Wed Dec 9 19:50:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6EA73A6911 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:50:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.844 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.844 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.302, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SARE_UNSUB18=0.131, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CDyfGlaKmgZk for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2173A6861 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.126]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009121011590993-7700 ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:59:09 +0800 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:50:36 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Y.J. Gu" , "=?gb2312?B?J0FsYmVydG9fSm9z6V9Hb2564Wxlel9DZWxhJw==?=" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <001e01ca794a$710feb90$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> Message-ID: <200912101150365784125@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-10 11:59:09, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-10 11:50:44, Serialize complete at 2009-12-10 11:50:44 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon003747131377_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 03:50:57 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon003747131377_===== 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ICZuYnNwO0dvbnphbGV6ICZuYnNwO0NlbGE8L0RJVj4NCiAgPERJVj5Vbml2ZXJzaXRhdCAmbmJz cDtQb2xpdGVjbmljYSAmbmJzcDtkZSAmbmJzcDtDYXRhbHVueWEgJm5ic3A7LyANCiAgJm5ic3A7 aTJDQVQgJm5ic3A7Rm91bmRhdGlvbjwvRElWPg0KICA8RElWPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fPC9ESVY+DQogIDxESVY+cHBzcCAmbmJzcDttYWls aW5nICZuYnNwO2xpc3Q8L0RJVj4NCiAgPERJVj5wcHNwQGlldGYub3JnPC9ESVY+DQogIDxESVY+ aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9wcHNwPC9ESVY+PC9GT05UPjwv RElWPjwvQkxPQ0tRVU9URT48L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+PC9CT0RZPjwvSFRNTD4NCg== --=====003_Dragon003747131377_=====-- From ping@pingpan.org Wed Dec 9 20:01:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348443A6911 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:01:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.424 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.424 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.552, BAYES_05=-1.11, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_UNSUB18=0.131] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1zORVw6uguv4 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og125.obsmtp.com (exprod7og125.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.28]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 77EE73A694F for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([209.85.216.183]) by exprod7ob125.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKSyBypgXiaqv2Z4s60AG6H8gWzNx418Zh@postini.com; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:01:44 PST Received: by mail-px0-f183.google.com with SMTP id 13so4298113pxi.24 for ; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:01:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.25.41 with SMTP id c41mr1781511wfj.2.1260417702030; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:01:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <001e01ca794a$710feb90$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> References: <200912101108062653184@chinamobile.com> <001e01ca794a$710feb90$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:01:41 -0800 Message-ID: <22d04a930912092001t30d1ea48lf8905103de0427cb@mail.gmail.com> From: Ping Pan To: "Y.J. Gu" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e1f7ae65ef3e047a57dd1a Cc: ppsp , =?UTF-8?B?QWxiZXJ0b19Kb3PplotHb2566YagZXpfQ2VsYQ==?= Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:01:56 -0000 --001636e1f7ae65ef3e047a57dd1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agree. Don't think ingest, streaming and delivery should be a part of PPSP. Leave them open as each has multiple options. 2009/12/9 Y.J. Gu > Hi, > I agree that research in media coding is meaningful in PPSP, as we have > discussed in the early posts. > However, transmission IMHO is out the scope of PPSP. The main aim of PPSP= , > either Tracker protocol or peer protocol, is to help peers find where to = get > (parts of )the stream. The transmission, including synchronization, can = be > guaranteed by other Protocol, e.g. RTSP. We don't restrict which protocol= a > peer should use to get the stream, as long as both sides of the session c= ome > to a consensus. > At this stage, I think we'd better not make the scope too wide and > amphibolous, except that there are evidences that transmission will impac= t > P2P streaming protocol. > Can anybody give some clues? > > > Regards > > Yingjie Gu > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf O= f > *zhangyunfei > *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:08 AM > *To:* Alberto_Jos=E9=96=8BGonz=E9=86=A0ez_Cela; ppsp@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [ppsp] charter discussion > > Hi Alberto, > I agree that it's very important to think over media description with > media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence as > follows: > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multiple > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various med= ia > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features > into > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > [Update] > >>The design of PPSP will consider the senario of transmission of > multiple > streams (layered media). This includes considering variou media > descriptions > (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol) after investigating different > media coding > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protocol. > > This way,we leave room for some other approches while keep the scope in t= he > signaling domain. > > BR > Yunfei > > ------------------------------ > zhangyunfei > 2009-12-10 > ------------------------------ > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A* Alberto_Jos=E9=96=8BGonz=E9=86=A0= ez_Cela > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A* 2009-12-03 05:29:32 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A* ppsp@ietf.org > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A* > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A* Re: [ppsp] charter discussion > > Hi all, > > Just one comment. > > I would generalize the following: > > [new] The design of PPSP will investigate various media coding > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into > media > description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > According to the following: > > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multiple > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various med= ia > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features > into > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > This way, we don't focus only on media coding techniques and w= e > leave > the door open for other approaches such as media synchronization > (audio, video, etc.). > > BR, > > -- > Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela > Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > --001636e1f7ae65ef3e047a57dd1a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = Agree. Don't think ingest, streaming and delivery should be a part of P= PSP. Leave them open as each has multiple options.

2009/12/9 Y.J. Gu <= guyingjie@huawei.com>=
Hi,
I agree that research in media=20 coding is meaningful in PPSP, as we have discussed in the early=20 posts.
However, transmission IMHO is out=20 the scope of PPSP. The main aim of=C2=A0PPSP, either Tracker protocol=20 or=C2=A0peer protocol,=C2=A0is to help peers find where to get (parts of )t= he=20 stream. =C2=A0The transmission, including synchronization,=C2=A0can be=20 guaranteed by other Protocol, e.g. RTSP. We don't restrict which protoc= ol a peer=20 should use to get the stream, as long as both sides of the session=C2=A0com= e to=20 a consensus.=C2=A0
At this stage, I think we'd better=20 not make the scope too wide and amphibolous, except that there are evidence= s=20 that transmission will impact P2P streaming protocol.
Can anybody give some=20 clues?
=C2= =A0

Regards

Yingjie Gu
=C2= =A0

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ppsp-b= ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of zhangyunfei
Sent:= =20 Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:08 AM
To: Alberto_Jos=E9=96=8BGo= nz=E9=86=A0ez_Cela;=20 ppsp@ietf.org
<= b>Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter=20 discussion

Hi Alberto,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 I= =C2=A0agree=20 that=C2=A0it's very important to=C2=A0think over=C2=A0media descripti= on with=20 media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence as= =20 follows:
[new] =C2=A0The =C2=A0design =C2=A0of =C2=A0PPSP =C2=A0will=20 =C2=A0consider =C2=A0transmission =C2=A0of =C2=A0multiple
streams =C2=A0(layered =C2=A0media). =C2=A0This =C2=A0includes =C2= =A0to=20 =C2=A0investigate =C2=A0various =C2=A0media
coding =C2=A0mechanisms =C2=A0(e.g. =C2=A0SVC, =C2=A0MDC) =C2=A0to= =20 =C2=A0incorporate =C2=A0their =C2=A0features =C2=A0into
media =C2=A0description =C2=A0(e.g. =C2=A0chunk =C2=A0description=20 =C2=A0in =C2=A0peer =C2=A0protocol).
=C2=A0
[Update]
>>Th= e =C2=A0design=20 =C2=A0of =C2=A0PPSP =C2=A0will =C2=A0consider =C2=A0the senario of=20 transmission =C2=A0of =C2=A0multiple=20
streams =C2=A0(layered =C2=A0media). =C2=A0Th= is=20 =C2=A0includes=C2=A0considering=C2=A0variou med= ia=20 descriptions
(e.g. chunk=20 description in peer protocol) after investigating=C2=A0different media co= ding=20
mechanisms=C2=A0(e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their feat= ures in the=20 protocol.
=C2=A0
This way,we leave room for some other approch= es while=20 keep the scope in the signaling domain.
=C2=A0
BR
Yunfei
=C2=A0
zhangyunfe= i
2009-12-10
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6= =E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A=20 Alberto_Jos=E9=96=8BGonz=E9=86=A0ez_Cela
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81= =E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A=20 2009-12-03=C2=A005:29:32
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6= =E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A=20 ppsp@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81= =EF=BC=9A
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98= =EF=BC=9A Re: [ppsp] charter=20 discussion
=C2=A0
Hi =C2=A0all,
=C2=A0
Just =C2=A0one =C2=A0comment.
=C2=A0
I =C2=A0would =C2=A0generalize =C2=A0the =C2=A0following:
=C2=A0
[new] =C2=A0The =C2=A0design =C2=A0of =C2=A0PPSP =C2=A0will=20 =C2=A0investigate =C2=A0various =C2=A0media =C2=A0coding
mechanisms =C2=A0(e.g. =C2=A0SVC, =C2=A0MDC) =C2=A0to =C2=A0incorpor= ate=20 =C2=A0their =C2=A0features =C2=A0into =C2=A0media
description =C2=A0(e.g. =C2=A0chunk =C2=A0description =C2=A0in =C2= =A0peer=20 =C2=A0protocol).
=C2=A0
According =C2=A0to =C2=A0the =C2=A0following:
=C2=A0
[new] =C2=A0The =C2=A0design =C2=A0of =C2=A0PPSP =C2=A0will=20 =C2=A0consider =C2=A0transmission =C2=A0of =C2=A0multiple
streams =C2=A0(layered =C2=A0media). =C2=A0This =C2=A0includes =C2= =A0to=20 =C2=A0investigate =C2=A0various =C2=A0media
coding =C2=A0mechanisms =C2=A0(e.g. =C2=A0SVC, =C2=A0MDC) =C2=A0to= =20 =C2=A0incorporate =C2=A0their =C2=A0features =C2=A0into
media =C2=A0description =C2=A0(e.g. =C2=A0chunk =C2=A0description=20 =C2=A0in =C2=A0peer =C2=A0protocol).
=C2=A0
This =C2=A0way, =C2=A0we =C2=A0don't =C2=A0focus =C2=A0only =C2= =A0on=20 =C2=A0media =C2=A0coding =C2=A0techniques =C2=A0and =C2=A0we =C2=A0leave<= /div>
the =C2=A0door =C2=A0open =C2=A0for =C2=A0other =C2=A0approaches=20 =C2=A0such =C2=A0as =C2=A0media =C2=A0synchronization
(audio, =C2=A0video, =C2=A0etc.).
=C2=A0
BR,
=C2=A0
-- =C2=A0
Alberto =C2=A0Jose =C2=A0Gonzalez =C2=A0Cela
Universitat =C2=A0Politecnica =C2=A0de =C2=A0Catalunya =C2=A0/=20 =C2=A0i2CAT =C2=A0Foundation
_______________________________________________
ppsp =C2=A0mailing =C2=A0list

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ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


--001636e1f7ae65ef3e047a57dd1a-- From albertojgc@gmail.com Thu Dec 10 02:10:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322D43A68D3 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:10:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.137 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.137 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.746, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_UNSUB18=0.131] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19x9W-zSEHXb for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f223.google.com (mail-bw0-f223.google.com [209.85.218.223]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866923A68B0 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by bwz23 with SMTP id 23so6123224bwz.29 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:10:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=1xWYuFPn5X+87ECz7nmBZfrxjxkqRiVc5cQgrs0JgnI=; b=elRzyvnvQ6sZK2FtbZHcKUOAl70+BC2ysRC688fUygww3IfjR4xqeOrMkVfPjZsOFl oepakzeJ7IWBsSptjGKp44NKlBizP3tT5OOGYHgTeC//h58Pz7ObCyH4r5/H/t+qXi+L CKaC/RuslG1yMopPphWm0+Oua0YAF1ixYuvxI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=UyAbqUkiXiKv0+RIXohQ19gvK4T+k2fHyUC2jdiGYOG2i0kbRvRZhQZHgDMjJEZpaE I+hKwPO4SxJSHyqJA2kjx/7WLkg5naUxbuPU9Q1HvB3wHkR21m+8nOnoOsWQ711mxqCf 4lSusDPtn+YDZ1iRkY8WssguZHQZOsslFN1yc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.35.11 with SMTP id n11mr579480bkd.40.1260439808990; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:10:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200912101108062653184@chinamobile.com> References: <200912101108062653184@chinamobile.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:10:08 +0100 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela?= To: zhangyunfei Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a39a135f49047a5d03bb Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:10:25 -0000 --00032555a39a135f49047a5d03bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I think that media coding techniques is not an issue within the scope of PPSP, as it is a particular case. However, I think that the idea of considering the transmission of multiple streams can be considered during the design and protocol definition of PPSP as it allows to extend the protocol in an easy manner. I think that to have this in mind doesn't make the scope wider while offers the possibility to create a more flexible protocol. BR, Alberto. 2009/12/10 zhangyunfei > Hi Alberto, > I agree that it's very important to think over media description with > media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence as > follows: > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multiple > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various med= ia > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features > into > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > [Update] > >>The design of PPSP will consider the senario of transmission of > multiple > streams (layered media). This includes considering variou media > descriptions > (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol) after investigating different > media coding > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protocol. > > This way,we leave room for some other approches while keep the scope in t= he > signaling domain. > > BR > Yunfei > > ------------------------------ > zhangyunfei > 2009-12-10 > ------------------------------ > *=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA* Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela > *=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA* 2009-12-03 05:29:32 > *=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA* ppsp@ietf.org > *=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA* > *=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA* Re: [ppsp] charter discussion > > Hi all, > > Just one comment. > > I would generalize the following: > > [new] The design of PPSP will investigate various media coding > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into > media > description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > According to the following: > > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multiple > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various med= ia > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features > into > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > This way, we don't focus only on media coding techniques and w= e > leave > the door open for other approaches such as media synchronization > (audio, video, etc.). > > BR, > > -- > Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela > Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > --=20 Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela --00032555a39a135f49047a5d03bb Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,

I think that media coding techniques is not an i= ssue within the scope of PPSP, as it is a particular case. However, I think= that the idea of considering the transmission of multiple streams can be c= onsidered during the design and protocol definition of PPSP as it allows to= extend the protocol in an easy manner. I think that to have this in mind d= oesn't make the scope wider while offers the possibility to create a mo= re flexible protocol.

BR,

Alberto.

2009/12/10 zhangyunfei <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
Hi Alberto,=
   I&nbs= p;agree=20 that it's very important to think over media description= with=20 media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence as=20 follows:
[new]  The  design  of  PPSP  will  cons= ider=20  transmission  of  multiple
streams  (layered  media).  This  includes  t= o=20  investigate  various  media
coding  mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC)  to=20  incorporate  their  features  into
media  description  (e.g.  chunk  description &nbs= p;in=20  peer  protocol).
 
[Update]
>>The =  design=20  of  PPSP  will  consider  the senario of transmis= sion=20  of  multiple
streams  (layered  media).  This= =20  includes considering variou media= =20 descriptions
(e.g. chunk=20 description in peer protocol) after investigating different media codi= ng=20
mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their featur= es in the=20 protocol.
 
This way,we leave room for some other approches= while=20 keep the scope in the signaling domain.
 
BR
Yunfei
 
zhangyunfei<= /font>
2009-12-10
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA=20 Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4=A3=BA=20 2009-12-03 05:29:32
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA=20 ppsp@ietf.org=
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] charter=20 discussion
 
Hi  all,
 
Just  one  comment.
 
I  would  generalize  the  following:
 
[new]  The  design  of  PPSP  will=20  investigate  various  media  coding
mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC)  to  incorporat= e=20  their  features  into  media
description  (e.g.  chunk  description  in  p= eer=20  protocol).
 
According  to  the  following:
 
[new]  The  design  of  PPSP  will  cons= ider=20  transmission  of  multiple
streams  (layered  media).  This  includes  t= o=20  investigate  various  media
coding  mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC)  to=20  incorporate  their  features  into
media  description  (e.g.  chunk  description &nbs= p;in=20  peer  protocol).
 
This  way,  we  don't  focus  only  = on=20  media  coding  techniques  and  we  leave
the  door  open  for  other  approaches  = ;such=20  as  media  synchronization
(audio,  video,  etc.).
 
BR,
 
--  
Alberto  Jose  Gonzalez  Cela
Universitat  Politecnica  de  Catalunya  /  i= 2CAT=20  Foundation
_______________________________________________
ppsp  mailing  list



--
Alberto Jose Gonzalez C= ela

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PjxCUiANCmNsZWFyPWFsbD48QlI+LS0gPEJSPkFsYmVydG8gSm9zZSBHb256YWxleiANCkNlbGE8 QlI+PEJSPjwvRElWPjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj48L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1MPg0K --=====003_Dragon046385757722_=====-- From gyuri@kth.se Thu Dec 10 02:35:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0E43A6809 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:35:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NB19yrbtiQTR for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:35:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-2.sys.kth.se (smtp-2.sys.kth.se [130.237.32.160]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE31E3A6AC9 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:35:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-2.sys.kth.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9231114E35E; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:35:15 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at kth.se Received: from smtp-2.sys.kth.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp-2.sys.kth.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id AXUI97r6zCnQ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:35:14 +0100 (CET) X-KTH-Auth: gyuri [130.237.50.122] Received: from [130.237.50.122] (gyuri-lcn-e6400.s3.kth.se [130.237.50.122]) by smtp-2.sys.kth.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C91314E34F; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:35:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B20CEF5.7000708@kth.se> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:35:33 +0100 From: Gyorgy Dan User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090817) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?GB2312?B?QWxiZXJ0byBKb3OopiBHb256qKJsZXogQ2VsYQ==?= References: <200912101108062653184@chinamobile.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:35:59 -0000 Hi all, I would also argue for not including media coding techniques in PPSP. One can treat the problem of media coding at a higher level: - single layer, - multiple layers of equal importance (balanced MDC) and - multiple layers of different importance (non-balanced MDC) - multiple layers of different importance and dependence (LC) It would be enough for PPSP to be able to express this structure: the importance and the possible dependence between the layers. The particular media encoding format used is then rather irrelevant. Regards, Gyo"rgy Alberto Jos¨¦ Gonz¨¢lez Cela wrote: > Hi all, > > I think that media coding techniques is not an issue within the scope of PPSP, as it is a particular case. However, I think that the idea of considering the transmission of multiple streams can be considered during the design and protocol definition of PPSP as it allows to extend the protocol in an easy manner. I think that to have this in mind doesn't make the scope wider while offers the possibility to create a more flexible protocol. > > BR, > > Alberto. > > 2009/12/10 zhangyunfei > > Hi Alberto, > I agree that it's very important to think over media description with media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence as follows: > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multiple > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various media > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > [Update] >>> The design of PPSP will consider the senario of transmission of multiple > streams (layered media). This includes considering variou media descriptions > (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol) after investigating different media coding > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protocol. > > This way,we leave room for some other approches while keep the scope in the signaling domain. > > BR > Yunfei > > ________________________________ > zhangyunfei > 2009-12-10 > ________________________________ > ·¢¼þÈË£º Alberto_José_González_Cela > ·¢ËÍʱ¼ä£º 2009-12-03 05:29:32 > ÊÕ¼þÈË£º ppsp@ietf.org > ³­ËÍ£º > Ö÷Ì⣺ Re: [ppsp] charter discussion > > Hi all, > > Just one comment. > > I would generalize the following: > > [new] The design of PPSP will investigate various media coding > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into media > description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > According to the following: > > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multiple > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various media > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > This way, we don't focus only on media coding techniques and we leave > the door open for other approaches such as media synchronization > (audio, video, etc.). > > BR, > > -- > Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela > Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > > -- > Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela > -- Gyo"rgy D¨¢n School of Electrical Engineering KTH Royal Institute of Technology Stockholm, Sweden http://www.ee.kth.se/~gyuri From albertojgc@gmail.com Thu Dec 10 02:38:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7463A6AEA for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:38:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.921, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_UNSUB18=0.131] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b9uKpN2rmWDX for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f223.google.com (mail-bw0-f223.google.com [209.85.218.223]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223283A6809 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:38:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by bwz23 with SMTP id 23so6139304bwz.29 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:38:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=iXFnTFCBJPtE8H8BUW4BKx7z06qB6kW1TD3WGl+3xYg=; b=otl34ndUIRPGqow2BJBXXHxPHhC0GU/E5TM1p+SXrxfrtSIXkIYx5eqdaK4WKhWIqA kBYAdtOyYJeoiQuhRQAPoAQZQpFCaNfERnqfZ7ByF/epBSLkl2VgBYMvZLY51b7s/wy+ W5jda2Ee20qZebbGmLSx7KrQXm8Jb+gccWZm4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=dr5JhpmjdBsvLkukdwnm2LS3Jy4bXUWpgZJbeVzpRJWadrqtVKz7s15EoXkfUoanjd X6SLW3jHjjg7A8lFcy194g9wiTJU3ltTP3WZoKKbhhEYWxSuEEkIbytRqlB4X4TZfXg4 ofp3wouaa2wztTXipBFavqRk7cNeOrSvmcJbA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.153.197 with SMTP id l5mr10921663bkw.109.1260441518026; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:38:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B20CEF5.7000708@kth.se> References: <200912101108062653184@chinamobile.com> <4B20CEF5.7000708@kth.se> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:38:37 +0100 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela?= To: Gyorgy Dan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d072af134ef047a5d68c8 Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:38:55 -0000 --0015175d072af134ef047a5d68c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Exactly, this is the key idea. Alberto. Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation 2009/12/10 Gyorgy Dan > Hi all, > > I would also argue for not including media coding techniques in PPSP. > > One can treat the problem of media coding at a higher level: > - single layer, > - multiple layers of equal importance (balanced MDC) and > - multiple layers of different importance (non-balanced MDC) > - multiple layers of different importance and dependence (LC) > > It would be enough for PPSP to be able to express this structure: the > importance and the possible dependence between the layers. The > particular media encoding format used is then rather irrelevant. > > Regards, > Gyo"rgy > > Alberto Jos=A8=A6 Gonz=A8=A2lez Cela wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I think that media coding techniques is not an issue within the scope o= f > PPSP, as it is a particular case. However, I think that the idea of > considering the transmission of multiple streams can be considered during > the design and protocol definition of PPSP as it allows to extend the > protocol in an easy manner. I think that to have this in mind doesn't mak= e > the scope wider while offers the possibility to create a more flexible > protocol. > > > > BR, > > > > Alberto. > > > > 2009/12/10 zhangyunfei zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>> > > Hi Alberto, > > I agree that it's very important to think over media description wit= h > media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence as > follows: > > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multipl= e > > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various > media > > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features > into > > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > > > [Update] > >>> The design of PPSP will consider the senario of transmission o= f > multiple > > streams (layered media). This includes considering variou media > descriptions > > (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol) after investigating different > media coding > > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protoco= l. > > > > This way,we leave room for some other approches while keep the scope in > the signaling domain. > > > > BR > > Yunfei > > > > ________________________________ > > zhangyunfei > > 2009-12-10 > > ________________________________ > > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela > > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-03 05:29:32 > > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org > > =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA > > =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] charter discussion > > > > Hi all, > > > > Just one comment. > > > > I would generalize the following: > > > > [new] The design of PPSP will investigate various media coding > > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into > media > > description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > > > According to the following: > > > > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of multipl= e > > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various > media > > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features > into > > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > > > This way, we don't focus only on media coding techniques and > we leave > > the door open for other approaches such as media synchronizati= on > > (audio, video, etc.). > > > > BR, > > > > -- > > Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela > > Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation > > _______________________________________________ > > ppsp mailing list > > ppsp@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > > > > > > -- > > Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela > > > > -- > Gyo"rgy D=A8=A2n > School of Electrical Engineering > KTH Royal Institute of Technology > Stockholm, Sweden > http://www.ee.kth.se/~gyuri > --=20 Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela --0015175d072af134ef047a5d68c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Exactly, this is the key idea. 

Alberto.
=
Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation
<= br>
2009/12/10 Gyorgy Dan <<= a href=3D"mailto:gyuri@kth.se">gyuri@kth.se>
Hi all,

I would also argue for not including media coding techniques in PPSP.

One can treat the problem of media coding at a higher level:
- single layer,
- multiple layers of equal importance (balanced MDC) and
- multiple layers of different importance (non-balanced MDC)
- multiple layers of different importance and dependence (LC)

It would be enough for PPSP to be able to express this structure: the
importance and the possible dependence between the layers. The
particular media encoding format used is then rather irrelevant.

Regards,
 Gyo"rgy

Alberto Jos=A8=A6 Gonz=A8=A2lez Cela wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think that media coding techniques is not an issue within the scope = of PPSP, as it is a particular case. However, I think that the idea of cons= idering the transmission of multiple streams can be considered during the d= esign and protocol definition of PPSP as it allows to extend the protocol i= n an easy manner. I think that to have this in mind doesn't make the sc= ope wider while offers the possibility to create a more flexible protocol.<= br> >
> BR,
>
> Alberto.
>
> 2009/12/10 zhangyunfei <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com<mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>>
> Hi Alberto,
>    I agree that it's very important to think over media = description with media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify th= e sentence as follows:
> [new]  The  design  of  PPSP  will  cons= ider  transmission  of  multiple
> streams  (layered  media).  This  includes  t= o  investigate  various  media
> coding  mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC)  to &nb= sp;incorporate  their  features  into
> media  description  (e.g.  chunk  description &nbs= p;in  peer  protocol).
>
> [Update]
>>> The  design  of  PPSP  will  consider=  the senario of transmission  of  multiple
> streams  (layered  media).  This  includes conside= ring variou media descriptions
> (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol) after investigating differen= t media coding
> mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protoc= ol.
>
> This way,we leave room for some other approches while keep the scope i= n the signaling domain.
>
> BR
> Yunfei
>
> ________________________________
> zhangyunfei
> 2009-12-10
> ________________________________
> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela
> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-03 05:29:32
> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ppsp@i= etf.org<mailto:ppsp@ietf.org>= ;
> =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA
> =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] charter discussion
>
> Hi  all,
>
> Just  one  comment.
>
> I  would  generalize  the  following:
>
> [new]  The  design  of  PPSP  will  inve= stigate  various  media  coding
> mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC)  to  incorporat= e  their  features  into  media
> description  (e.g.  chunk  description  in  p= eer  protocol).
>
> According  to  the  following:
>
> [new]  The  design  of  PPSP  will  cons= ider  transmission  of  multiple
> streams  (layered  media).  This  includes  t= o  investigate  various  media
> coding  mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC)  to &nb= sp;incorporate  their  features  into
> media  description  (e.g.  chunk  description &nbs= p;in  peer  protocol).
>
> This  way,  we  don't  focus  only  = on  media  coding  techniques  and  we  leave=
> the  door  open  for  other  approaches  = ;such  as  media  synchronization
> (audio,  video,  etc.).
>
> BR,
>
> --
> Alberto  Jose  Gonzalez  Cela
> Universitat  Politecnica  de  Catalunya  /  i= 2CAT  Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp  mailing  list
> ppsp@ietf.org<mailto:ppsp@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= ppsp
>
>
>
> --
> Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela
>

--
Gyo"rgy D=A8=A2n
School of Electrical Engineering
KTH Royal Institute of Technology
Stockholm, Sweden
http://www.ee.kth= .se/~gyuri



--
Alberto Jose Gon= zalez Cela

--0015175d072af134ef047a5d68c8-- From guyingjie@huawei.com Thu Dec 10 04:38:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7630728C112 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:38:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.93 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.93 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.657, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNSUB18=0.131] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KSaJvhiBiagM for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C4D28C0DF for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KUF00LHFS7DB8@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:33:13 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KUF00EZKS7DKX@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:33:13 +0800 (CST) Received: from g00107907 ([10.164.12.64]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KUF00A1ES7DOT@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:33:13 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:33:12 +0800 From: "Y.J. Gu" In-reply-to: To: =?gb2312?B?J0FsYmVydG8gSm9zqKYgR29ueqiibGV6IENlbGEn?= , 'Gyorgy Dan' Message-id: <004901ca7994$f0bc8d90$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_TYUSqconnEyg9yMFgZOTfg)" Thread-index: Acp5hPvDrzceK24TT2WvH3Zh79QaDQAD+aiQ Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:38:31 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_TYUSqconnEyg9yMFgZOTfg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I agree. =20 Regards Yingjie Gu =20 _____ =20 From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Jos=A8=A6 Gonz=A8=A2lez Cela Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:39 PM To: Gyorgy Dan Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion Exactly, this is the key idea. =20 Alberto. Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation 2009/12/10 Gyorgy Dan Hi all, I would also argue for not including media coding techniques in PPSP. One can treat the problem of media coding at a higher level: - single layer, - multiple layers of equal importance (balanced MDC) and - multiple layers of different importance (non-balanced MDC) - multiple layers of different importance and dependence (LC) It would be enough for PPSP to be able to express this structure: the importance and the possible dependence between the layers. The particular media encoding format used is then rather irrelevant. Regards, Gyo"rgy Alberto Jos=A8=A6 Gonz=A8=A2lez Cela wrote: > Hi all, > > I think that media coding techniques is not an issue within the scope = of PPSP, as it is a particular case. However, I think that the idea of considering the transmission of multiple streams can be considered = during the design and protocol definition of PPSP as it allows to extend the protocol in an easy manner. I think that to have this in mind doesn't = make the scope wider while offers the possibility to create a more flexible protocol. > > BR, > > Alberto. > > 2009/12/10 zhangyunfei > > Hi Alberto, > I agree that it's very important to think over media description = with media coding into consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence as follows: > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of = multiple > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various media > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their = features into > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > [Update] >>> The design of PPSP will consider the senario of transmission = of multiple > streams (layered media). This includes considering variou media descriptions > (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol) after investigating = different media coding > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the = protocol. > > This way,we leave room for some other approches while keep the scope = in the signaling domain. > > BR > Yunfei > > ________________________________ > zhangyunfei > 2009-12-10 > ________________________________ > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-03 05:29:32 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org > =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA > =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] charter discussion > > Hi all, > > Just one comment. > > I would generalize the following: > > [new] The design of PPSP will investigate various media = coding > mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features into media > description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > According to the following: > > [new] The design of PPSP will consider transmission of = multiple > streams (layered media). This includes to investigate various media > coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their = features into > media description (e.g. chunk description in peer protocol). > > This way, we don't focus only on media coding techniques and = we leave > the door open for other approaches such as media = synchronization > (audio, video, etc.). > > BR, > > -- > Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela > Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > > -- > Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela > -- Gyo"rgy D=A8=A2n School of Electrical Engineering KTH Royal Institute of Technology Stockholm, Sweden http://www.ee.kth.se/~gyuri --=20 Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela --Boundary_(ID_TYUSqconnEyg9yMFgZOTfg) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
 
I = agree.

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Jos=A8=A6 = Gonz=A8=A2lez=20 Cela
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:39 PM
To: = Gyorgy=20 Dan
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter=20 discussion

Exactly, this is the key idea. 

Alberto.

Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya / i2CAT Foundation

2009/12/10 Gyorgy Dan <gyuri@kth.se>
Hi=20 all,

I would also argue for not including media coding = techniques in=20 PPSP.

One can treat the problem of media coding at a higher=20 level:
- single layer,
- multiple layers of equal importance = (balanced=20 MDC) and
- multiple layers of different importance (non-balanced=20 MDC)
- multiple layers of different importance and dependence=20 (LC)

It would be enough for PPSP to be able to express this=20 structure: the
importance and the possible dependence between the = layers.=20 The
particular media encoding format used is then rather=20 irrelevant.

Regards,
 Gyo"rgy

Alberto Jos=A8=A6 Gonz=A8=A2lez Cela = wrote:
> Hi=20 all,
>
> I think that media coding techniques is not an = issue=20 within the scope of PPSP, as it is a particular case. However, I = think that=20 the idea of considering the transmission of multiple streams can be=20 considered during the design and protocol definition of PPSP as it = allows to=20 extend the protocol in an easy manner. I think that to have this in = mind=20 doesn't make the scope wider while offers the possibility to create = a more=20 flexible protocol.
>
> BR,
>
>=20 Alberto.
>
> 2009/12/10 zhangyunfei <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com<mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>>
> Hi Alberto,
>    I agree that = it's very=20 important to think over media description with media coding into=20 consideration.But I suggest to modify the sentence as = follows:
> [new]=20  The  design  of  PPSP  will  consider =  transmission  of  multiple
> streams =  (layered=20  media).  This  includes  to  investigate=20  various  media
> coding  mechanisms =  (e.g.=20  SVC,  MDC)  to  incorporate  their =  features=20  into
> media  description  (e.g.  chunk=20  description  in  peer =  protocol).
>
>=20 [Update]
>>> The  design  of  PPSP =  will=20  consider  the senario of transmission  of=20  multiple
> streams  (layered  media). =  This=20  includes considering variou media descriptions
> (e.g. = chunk=20 description in peer protocol) after investigating different media=20 coding
> mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their = features in=20 the protocol.
>
> This way,we leave room for some other=20 approches while keep the scope in the signaling = domain.
>
>=20 BR
> Yunfei
>
> = ________________________________
>=20 zhangyunfei
> 2009-12-10
>=20 ________________________________
> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA=20 Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela
> = =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-03 05:29:32
>=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org<mailto:ppsp@ietf.org>
> =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA
> =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA = Re: [ppsp] charter=20 discussion
>
> Hi  all,
>
> Just =  one=20  comment.
>
> I  would  generalize =  the=20  following:
>
> [new]  The  design =  of=20  PPSP  will  investigate  various  media=20  coding
> mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC) =  to=20  incorporate  their  features  into =  media
>=20 description  (e.g.  chunk  description  in =  peer=20  protocol).
>
> According  to  the=20  following:
>
> [new]  The  design =  of=20  PPSP  will  consider  transmission  of=20  multiple
> streams  (layered  media). =  This=20  includes  to  investigate  various =  media
>=20 coding  mechanisms  (e.g.  SVC,  MDC)  to=20  incorporate  their  features  into
> = media=20  description  (e.g.  chunk  description  in =  peer  protocol).
>
> This  way,  we =  don't  focus  only  on  media  coding =  techniques  and  we  leave
> the =  door=20  open  for  other  approaches  such =  as=20  media  synchronization
> (audio,  video,=20  etc.).
>
> BR,
>
> --
> Alberto=20  Jose  Gonzalez  Cela
> Universitat =  Politecnica=20  de  Catalunya  /  i2CAT =  Foundation
>=20 _______________________________________________
> ppsp =  mailing=20  list
> ppsp@ietf.org<mailto:ppsp@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>>
>
>=20 --
> Alberto Jose Gonzalez = Cela
>

--
Gyo"rgy D=A8=A2n
School of Electrical = Engineering
KTH=20 Royal Institute of Technology
Stockholm, Sweden
http://www.ee.kth.se/~gyuri


--
Alberto Jose Gonzalez=20 Cela

--Boundary_(ID_TYUSqconnEyg9yMFgZOTfg)-- From omer@rayv.com Thu Dec 10 05:50:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6EE3A67E1 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:50:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_BACKHAIR_47=1, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ez4VtaqqITlh for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from rayv.com (mx6.rayv.com [204.246.235.236]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9783B3A690A for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from Internal Mail-Server by mx6 (envelope-from omer@rayv.com) with SMTP; 10 Dec 2009 15:50:12 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA799F.B1664BDB" Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:50:10 +0200 Message-ID: <1AE07DCFE13D9A42B4EBA60C04A00A5102388075@pooh.RayV.ltd> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol Thread-Index: Acp5n7CGKWnhW9uDT12mxU7hVgsITQ== From: "Omer Luzzatti" To: Subject: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:50:33 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA799F.B1664BDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, A few comments/questions regarding the peer<->tracker protocol: =20 1. I believe that the protocol should reflect the fact that sometimes the tracker may 'recruit' additional resources to the swarm. This ability to 'recruit' nodes helps facilitating the streaming in most p2p existing live streaming platforms. These recruited nodes may be 'super-nodes' (hosted by the provider or identified as such by the platform), or regular nodes called to hold some segments of data. =20 2. Related to the above and yet somewhat more delicate question is whether different nodes have different 'roles'. The most obvious example, related to super-nodes, is the need of a consumer node to be aware of the fact that in the retrieved peer-list some of the nodes are indeed super-nodes (thus are reliable, have all data, etc...). In a different example the recruited nodes may be called to behave differently and e.g. not to fetch the entire media stream/file but only parts of it (VOD p2p streaming is an obvious case for this).=20 =20 3. The tracker peer list might also include additional information about the peers in the peer list. Common additional information is the 'zone' the peers are from (be a 'zone' the country, or the actual ISP), LAN information, NAT types, 'role' (see my previous point), and so on. This has to be somehow combined with ALTO which most probably will contribute an In-ISP information. Another related point is whether the peers in the peer-list are 'ordered'. =20 4. I'm less sure how this should be tackled (and if at all under this scope) but to my experience, sometimes, the tracker should be able to 'redirect' the peer to another channel/swarm. Example: the same channel/event is being broadcasted from multiple encoders (for redundancy and scalability) and the tracker acts also as a 'balancer' to spread the viewers among the swarms. In some other cases, such as in multiple stream qualities for 'adaptive bandwidth' (not SVC but multiple channels in different qualities thus the way it is done in Silverlight) the tracker 'picks' the channel according to pre-defined rules or strategies (e.g. customers that paid for the service will be redirected to a high-quality channel while the non-paying customers to a lower-quality channel).=20 =20 5. To some extent the tracker should also, directly or indirectly, receive feedback, such as status and statistics, from the peers. Basic example is the peer's viewing quality. This information, usually, is not being used to help the specific peer but the aggregation of such information helps the platform/tracker to identify 'starvation' cases and as a result to allocate additional resources to the swarm. =20 Regards, Omer ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA799F.B1664BDB Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

A few comments/questions regarding the = peer<->tracker protocol:

 

1.    I believe that the protocol = should reflect the fact that sometimes the tracker may ‘recruit’ additional resources to the swarm. This ability to ‘recruit’ = nodes helps facilitating the streaming in most p2p existing live streaming = platforms. These recruited nodes may be ‘super-nodes’ (hosted by the = provider or identified as such by the platform), or regular nodes called to hold = some segments of data.

 

2.    Related to the above and yet = somewhat more delicate question is whether different nodes have different ‘roles’. The most obvious example, related to super-nodes, = is the need of a consumer node to be aware of the fact that in the retrieved = peer-list some of the nodes are indeed super-nodes (thus are reliable, have all = data, etc…). In a different example the recruited nodes may be called to = behave differently and e.g. not to fetch the entire media stream/file but only = parts of it (VOD p2p streaming is an obvious case for this).

 

3.  The tracker peer list might also include = additional information about the peers in the peer list. Common additional = information is the ‘zone’ the peers are from (be a ‘zone’ the = country, or the actual ISP), LAN information, NAT types, ‘role’ (see = my previous point), and so on. This has to be somehow combined with ALTO = which most probably will contribute an In-ISP information. Another related = point is whether the peers in the peer-list are = ‘ordered’.

 

4. I’m less sure how this should be tackled = (and if at all under this scope) but to my experience, sometimes, the tracker = should be able to ‘redirect’ the peer to another channel/swarm. = Example: the same channel/event is being broadcasted from multiple encoders (for = redundancy and scalability) and the tracker acts also as a ‘balancer’ = to spread the viewers among the swarms. In some other cases, such as in = multiple stream qualities for ‘adaptive bandwidth’ (not SVC but = multiple channels in different qualities thus the way it is done in Silverlight) = the tracker ‘picks’ the channel according to pre-defined rules = or strategies (e.g. customers that paid for the service will be redirected = to a high-quality channel while the non-paying customers to a lower-quality channel).

 

5. To some extent the tracker should also, directly = or indirectly, receive feedback, such as status and statistics, from the = peers. Basic example is the peer’s viewing quality. This information, = usually, is not being used to help the specific peer but the aggregation of such = information helps the platform/tracker to identify ‘starvation’ cases = and as a result to allocate additional resources to the swarm.

 

Regards,

Omer





************************************************************************************
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses.
************************************************************************************

------_=_NextPart_001_01CA799F.B1664BDB-- From guyingjie@huawei.com Thu Dec 10 17:55:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B45E73A680D for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:55:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.626 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.626 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_BACKHAIR_47=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qgP2kStwwTnC for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999103A679F for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:55:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KUG008B3T8C86@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:53:00 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KUG003SZT8C2C@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:53:00 +0800 (CST) Received: from g00107907 ([10.164.12.64]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KUG0078CT8B66@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:53:00 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:52:59 +0800 From: "Y.J. Gu" In-reply-to: <1AE07DCFE13D9A42B4EBA60C04A00A5102388075@pooh.RayV.ltd> To: 'Omer Luzzatti' , ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <000d01ca7a04$aad7d5d0$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ZrO15+kIs5QM+teXyU+QXw)" Thread-index: Acp5n7CGKWnhW9uDT12mxU7hVgsITQAY/jVA Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:55:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ZrO15+kIs5QM+teXyU+QXw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Omer, Thank you for putting forward these issues to arouse discussions on Tracker protocol. See in line please. Regards Yingjie Gu _____ From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Omer Luzzatti Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:50 PM To: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol Dear all, A few comments/questions regarding the peer<->tracker protocol: 1. I believe that the protocol should reflect the fact that sometimes the tracker may 'recruit' additional resources to the swarm. This ability to 'recruit' nodes helps facilitating the streaming in most p2p existing live streaming platforms. These recruited nodes may be 'super-nodes' (hosted by the provider or identified as such by the platform), or regular nodes called to hold some segments of data. Gu yj: Agree. I would say that recruited nodes could also be caches, CDN servers, or even content servers. These recruited nodes are usually configured in the Tracker or notified by out-of-band protocol. But it also could be reflected by Tracker protocol if the recruited peers understand Tracker protocol. The Tracker protocol (i.e. peer<->tracker protocol) will respond requesting peers with peerlists including these recruited nodes. 2. Related to the above and yet somewhat more delicate question is whether different nodes have different 'roles'. The most obvious example, related to super-nodes, is the need of a consumer node to be aware of the fact that in the retrieved peer-list some of the nodes are indeed super-nodes (thus are reliable, have all data, etc.). In a different example the recruited nodes may be called to behave differently and e.g. not to fetch the entire media stream/file but only parts of it (VOD p2p streaming is an obvious case for this). Gu yj: This is an interesting point! As for the first example, my concerns is that if consumer nodes know who are super-nodes and most requests are send to the super-nodes (because every node want guaranteed downloading ), the super-nodes will become hot points and we know what happen next. So I suspect whether consumer nodes should be able to identify super-nodes. It could be Tracker's duty to make sure that super-nodes(as well as other good-quality nodes) are well utilized. As for the second example, I think it's not what Tracker Protocol should do. 3. The tracker peer list might also include additional information about the peers in the peer list. Common additional information is the 'zone' the peers are from (be a 'zone' the country, or the actual ISP), LAN information, NAT types, 'role' (see my previous point), and so on. This has to be somehow combined with ALTO which most probably will contribute an In-ISP information. Another related point is whether the peers in the peer-list are 'ordered'. Gu yj: I agree with your 'ordered peers' idea. The order can show the priority that Tracker want peers to understand. As to my best knowledge, some P2P applications don't follow the order in the peerlist, in which case 'ordered information' may not work well. An optional solution is for Tracker to respond with separated peerlists. For example, the first part of peerlist is sent to requesting peers including the most preferred peers, then the requesting peers will first try the preferred peers. The second part of the peerlist is then sent to requesting peers after a while, and so on. 4. I'm less sure how this should be tackled (and if at all under this scope) but to my experience, sometimes, the tracker should be able to 'redirect' the peer to another channel/swarm. Example: the same channel/event is being broadcasted from multiple encoders (for redundancy and scalability) and the tracker acts also as a 'balancer' to spread the viewers among the swarms. In some other cases, such as in multiple stream qualities for 'adaptive bandwidth' (not SVC but multiple channels in different qualities thus the way it is done in Silverlight) the tracker 'picks' the channel according to pre-defined rules or strategies (e.g. customers that paid for the service will be redirected to a high-quality channel while the non-paying customers to a lower-quality channel). Gu yj: Could this redirection be done before requests are sent to Tracker? I mean the consumer interface of the application can instruct which channel a peer could watch. 5. To some extent the tracker should also, directly or indirectly, receive feedback, such as status and statistics, from the peers. Basic example is the peer's viewing quality. This information, usually, is not being used to help the specific peer but the aggregation of such information helps the platform/tracker to identify 'starvation' cases and as a result to allocate additional resources to the swarm. Gu yj: Totally agree! Regards, Omer **************************************************************************** ******** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. **************************************************************************** ******** **************************************************************************** ******** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. **************************************************************************** ******** --Boundary_(ID_ZrO15+kIs5QM+teXyU+QXw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi Omer,
Thank you for putting forward these issues to arouse discussions on Tracker protocol.
See in line please.
 

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Omer Luzzatti
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:50 PM
To: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol

Dear all,

A few comments/questions regarding the peer<->tracker protocol:

 

1.    I believe that the protocol should reflect the fact that sometimes the tracker may ‘recruit’ additional resources to the swarm. This ability to ‘recruit’ nodes helps facilitating the streaming in most p2p existing live streaming platforms. These recruited nodes may be ‘super-nodes’ (hosted by the provider or identified as such by the platform), or regular nodes called to hold some segments of data.

 

Gu yj: Agree. I would say that recruited nodes could also be caches, CDN servers, or even content servers. These recruited nodes are usually configured in the Tracker or notified by out-of-band protocol. But it also could be reflected by Tracker protocol if the recruited peers understand Tracker protocol. The Tracker protocol (i.e. peer<->tracker protocol) will respond requesting peers with peerlists including these recruited nodes.

 

2.    Related to the above and yet somewhat more delicate question is whether different nodes have different ‘roles’. The most obvious example, related to super-nodes, is the need of a consumer node to be aware of the fact that in the retrieved peer-list some of the nodes are indeed super-nodes (thus are reliable, have all data, etc…). In a different example the recruited nodes may be called to behave differently and e.g. not to fetch the entire media stream/file but only parts of it (VOD p2p streaming is an obvious case for this).

 

Gu yj: This is an interesting point! As for the first example, my concerns is that if consumer nodes know who are super-nodes and most requests are send to the super-nodes (because every node want  guaranteed downloading ), the super-nodes will become hot points and we know what happen next. So I suspect whether consumer nodes should be able to identify super-nodes. It could be Tracker’s duty to make sure that super-nodes(as well as other good-quality nodes) are well utilized. As for the second example, I think it’s not what Tracker Protocol should do.

 

3.  The tracker peer list might also include additional information about the peers in the peer list. Common additional information is the ‘zone’ the peers are from (be a ‘zone’ the country, or the actual ISP), LAN information, NAT types, ‘role’ (see my previous point), and so on. This has to be somehow combined with ALTO which most probably will contribute an In-ISP information. Another related point is whether the peers in the peer-list are ‘ordered’.

 

Gu yj: I agree with your ‘ordered peers’ idea. The order can show the priority that Tracker want peers to understand. As to my best knowledge, some P2P applications don’t follow the order in the peerlist, in which case ‘ordered information’ may not work well. An optional solution is for Tracker to respond with separated peerlists. For example, the first part of peerlist is sent to requesting peers including the most preferred peers, then the requesting peers will first try the preferred peers. The second part of the peerlist is then sent to requesting peers after a while, and so on.

 

4. I’m less sure how this should be tackled (and if at all under this scope) but to my experience, sometimes, the tracker should be able to ‘redirect’ the peer to another channel/swarm. Example: the same channel/event is being broadcasted from multiple encoders (for redundancy and scalability) and the tracker acts also as a ‘balancer’ to spread the viewers among the swarms. In some other cases, such as in multiple stream qualities for ‘adaptive bandwidth’ (not SVC but multiple channels in different qualities thus the way it is done in Silverlight) the tracker ‘picks’ the channel according to pre-defined rules or strategies (e.g. customers that paid for the service will be redirected to a high-quality channel while the non-paying customers to a lower-quality channel).

 

Gu yj: Could this redirection be done before requests are sent to Tracker? I mean the consumer interface of the application can instruct which channel a peer could watch.

 

5. To some extent the tracker should also, directly or indirectly, receive feedback, such as status and statistics, from the peers. Basic example is the peer’s viewing quality. This information, usually, is not being used to help the specific peer but the aggregation of such information helps the platform/tracker to identify ‘starvation’ cases and as a result to allocate additional resources to the swarm.

 

Gu yj: Totally agree!

 

Regards,

Omer





************************************************************************************
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses.
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************************************************************************************
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses.
************************************************************************************

--Boundary_(ID_ZrO15+kIs5QM+teXyU+QXw)-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Thu Dec 10 18:04:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4DA3A6939 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:04:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.037 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.037 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.264, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_BACKHAIR_47=1, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_84=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ogVrf29vCch6 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:04:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E02C3A68E4 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.126]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009121110124055-6059 ; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:12:40 +0800 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:04:02 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Omer Luzzatti" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <1AE07DCFE13D9A42B4EBA60C04A00A5102388075@pooh.RayV.ltd> Message-ID: <200912111004025933397@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-11 10:12:40, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-11 10:04:11, Serialize complete at 2009-12-11 10:04:11 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon511101007042_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:04:24 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon511101007042_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" RGVhciBPbWVyLA0KICAgVGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIGNvbW1lbnRzLkl0J3MgdmVyeSBpbmZvcm1h dGl2ZSBhbmQgaW5zdHJ1Y3RpdmUuUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUgZm9yIHRoZSByZXBseS5UaGFu a3MgYWdhaW4hDQoNCkJSDQpZdW5mZWkNCg0KDQoNCg0Kemhhbmd5dW5mZWkNCjIwMDktMTItMTEN Cg0KDQoNCreivP7Iy6O6IE9tZXIgTHV6emF0dGkNCreiy83Ksbzko7ogMjAwOS0xMi0xMCAyMjow ODoxMg0KytW8/sjLo7ogcHBzcEBpZXRmLm9yZw0Ks63LzaO6IA0K1vfM4qO6IFtwcHNwXSBjaGFy dGVyIGRpc2N1c3Npb24sIHBlZXI8LT50cmFja2VyIHByb3RvY29sDQoNCkRlYXIgYWxsLA0KQSBm ZXcgY29tbWVudHMvcXVlc3Rpb25zIHJlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGUgcGVlcjwtPnRyYWNrZXIgcHJvdG9j b2w6DQogDQoxLiAgICBJIGJlbGlldmUgdGhhdCB0aGUgcHJvdG9jb2wgc2hvdWxkIHJlZmxlY3Qg 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zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Thu Dec 10 18:17:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFE83A6897 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:17:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -91.981 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-91.981 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.067, BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_BACKHAIR_47=1, J_CHICKENPOX_61=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_63=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_73=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_82=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d8NEuozYsdzj for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF7E3A6843 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.126]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009121110253107-6516 ; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:25:31 +0800 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:16:53 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Y.J. Gu" , "'Omer Luzzatti'" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <000d01ca7a04$aad7d5d0$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> Message-ID: <200912111016529842972@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-11 10:25:31, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-11 10:16:59, Serialize complete at 2009-12-11 10:16:59 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon451414773886_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:17:13 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon451414773886_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKio8QlI+PEJSPjwvUD48L0RJVj48L0JMT0NLUVVPVEU+PC9GT05UPjwv RElWPjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo= --=====003_Dragon451414773886_=====-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Thu Dec 10 18:46:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C3F3A6858 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:46:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -91.071 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-91.071 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.782, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_BACKHAIR_47=1, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_84=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_92=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GZVpMjBM+8rn for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693B53A6862 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.126]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009121110544558-7762 ; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:54:45 +0800 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:46:07 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Kang Heng WU" , "Omer Luzzatti" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: Message-ID: <200912111046069684730@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-11 10:54:45, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-11 10:46:12, Serialize complete at 2009-12-11 10:46:12 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon845160313120_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:46:26 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon845160313120_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" SGkgS2VudCwNCiAgICBJIGFncmVlIHdpdGggeW91ciBwb2ludHMuT25lIHBvaW50IHRvIHN0cmVz cyBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZSB0cmFja2VycyBtYXkgYmUgYSAiY2x1c3RlciJvZiBub2RlcyBvciAiZGlz dHJpYnV0ZWQibm9kZSBzZXRzLiBTbyB0aGUgYm90dGxlbmVjayBwcm9ibGVtIGNhbiBiZSBhdm9p ZGVkIGluIHNvbWUgc2Vuc2UuQW5kIHRoZSAiYWRkaXRpb25hbCByZXNvdXJjZSByZWNydXRpbmci aXMgdGhlIGNvbXBsZW1lbnRhcnkgbWVhbnMuIEJhc2ljYWxseSB3ZSByZWx5IG9uIHRoZSBwZWVy 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required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.425, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_BACKHAIR_47=1, J_CHICKENPOX_61=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_63=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_73=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_82=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z36EWNkXONnQ for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rayv.com (mx6.rayv.com [204.246.235.236]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506F43A6948 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:03:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from Internal Mail-Server by mx6 (envelope-from omer@rayv.com) with SMTP; 11 Dec 2009 15:03:10 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA7A62.484AA126" Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:03:06 +0200 Message-ID: <1AE07DCFE13D9A42B4EBA60C04A00A510238810B@pooh.RayV.ltd> In-Reply-To: <200912111016529842972@chinamobile.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol Thread-Index: Acp6CBHQY0Nbe8MATc6ude7Oeql4lAAV7PxQ References: <000d01ca7a04$aad7d5d0$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> <200912111016529842972@chinamobile.com> From: "Omer Luzzatti" To: "zhangyunfei" , "Y.J. Gu" , Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:03:27 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7A62.484AA126 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Yunfei and Yingjie, great comments, Mine inline. =20 Regards Omer =20 From: zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]=20 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:17 AM To: Y.J. Gu; Omer Luzzatti; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol =20 Hi,yingjie, Please see inline for the reply. =20 BR Yunfei =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2009-12-11 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Y.J. Gu =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-11 10:03:47 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA 'Omer Luzzatti'; ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker = protocol =20 Hi Omer, Thank you for putting forward these issues to arouse discussions on = Tracker protocol.=20 See in line please.=20 =20 Regards Yingjie Gu =20 =20 =09 ________________________________ From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Omer Luzzatti Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:50 PM To: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol Dear all, A few comments/questions regarding the peer<->tracker protocol: =20 1. I believe that the protocol should reflect the fact that = sometimes the tracker may =A1=AErecruit=A1=AF additional resources to = the swarm. This ability to =A1=AErecruit=A1=AF nodes helps facilitating = the streaming in most p2p existing live streaming platforms. These = recruited nodes may be =A1=AEsuper-nodes=A1=AF (hosted by the provider = or identified as such by the platform), or regular nodes called to hold = some segments of data. =20 Gu yj: Agree. I would say that recruited nodes could also be caches, = CDN servers, or even content servers. These recruited nodes are usually = configured in the Tracker or notified by out-of-band protocol. But it = also could be reflected by Tracker protocol if the recruited peers = understand Tracker protocol. The Tracker protocol (i.e. peer<->tracker = protocol) will respond requesting peers with peerlists including these = recruited nodes.=20 =20 Yunfei=A3=BAYingjie raised another interesting problem.I would like ask = Omer to clarify his intention? Do you mean "recruiting"some nodes who = haven't have tracker protocol?Or just "recruting"addtional peers since = the tracker may not hold the complete set of peers. Anyway,Yingjie's comments make me consider another points,can/need we = add some additional servers(nodes) who may be not PPSP nodes but can = contribute to PPSP swarm? =20 Omer: Indeed my point was about peers within the network, those that = =A1=AEknow=A1=AF the PPSP protocol. Yunfei=A1=AFs rightly hints that in = the case that the tracker holds the complete set of peers this solution = may not be needed, however, in a multi-channel environment the situation = gets complex; here=A1=AFs why: whenever one channel with many viewers = needs more =A1=AEsuper-nodes=A1=AF, these super-nodes, who may have = helped other channels in the past, should be actively called to help in = the specific channel in starvation. Thus, in my mind, super-nodes are = resources that are actively monitored and called to help when they are = needed for BW or storage.=20 As for the protocol itself, both could be used: a permanent connection, = in which the tracker pushes a =A1=AEplease join channelX=A1=AF message = to the SN, or a heartbeat =A8C =A1=AEam I needed=A1=AF message from the = SN to the tracker followed by a response from the Tracker. Note that in = both cases the tracker =A1=AEasks=A1=AF the SN to join a channel. =20 2. Related to the above and yet somewhat more delicate question is = whether different nodes have different =A1=AEroles=A1=AF. The most = obvious example, related to super-nodes, is the need of a consumer node = to be aware of the fact that in the retrieved peer-list some of the = nodes are indeed super-nodes (thus are reliable, have all data, = etc=A1=AD). In a different example the recruited nodes may be called to = behave differently and e.g. not to fetch the entire media stream/file = but only parts of it (VOD p2p streaming is an obvious case for this).=20 =20 Gu yj: This is an interesting point! As for the first example, my = concerns is that if consumer nodes know who are super-nodes and most = requests are send to the super-nodes (because every node want = guaranteed downloading ), the super-nodes will become hot points and we = know what happen next. So I suspect whether consumer nodes should be = able to identify super-nodes. It could be Tracker=A1=AFs duty to make = sure that super-nodes(as well as other good-quality nodes) are well = utilized. As for the second example, I think it=A1=AFs not what Tracker = Protocol should do. Yunfei=A3=BAAgree. =20 Omer: I actually disagree on two grounds (but agree we don=A1=AFt have = to agree now :-)) 1) the only way to guarantee service from moment one is to have = the peers know which are the super-nodes. 2) in my mind the only way to protect the super-nodes and to make = sure they will not be attacked is to let the peers know these are indeed = the super-nodes and should be approached only in the =A1=AElast = moment=A1=AF for segments the peer hasn=A1=AFt received from other = peers. How would a peer know otherwise that a neighbor peer e.g. within = its LAN (or a strong caching peer provided by the ISP) is one that could = be used without limitations while super nodes peers are to be approached = only in =A1=AElast moment=A1=AF. I do assume (and/or securely validate) = the PPSP clients are =A1=AEtrustable=A1=AF. More generally we=A1=AFre touching a point here that seems to be = crucial - both my arguments above assume PPSP is (indeed ambitiously) = trying to build a real TV-IP P2P solution and thus should approach = questions such as startup-time, delays, QoS, and targeted SLA. If so = =A1=AEreliable sources=A1=AF of this or that kind must be part of the = system and (as I tried to convince) =A1=AEknown=A1=AF to the other peers = as such. =20 3. The tracker peer list might also include additional information = about the peers in the peer list. Common additional information is the = =A1=AEzone=A1=AF the peers are from (be a =A1=AEzone=A1=AF the country, = or the actual ISP), LAN information, NAT types, =A1=AErole=A1=AF (see my = previous point), and so on. This has to be somehow combined with ALTO = which most probably will contribute an In-ISP information. Another = related point is whether the peers in the peer-list are = =A1=AEordered=A1=AF. =20 Gu yj: I agree with your =A1=AEordered peers=A1=AF idea. The order can = show the priority that Tracker want peers to understand. As to my best = knowledge, some P2P applications don=A1=AFt follow the order in the = peerlist, in which case =A1=AEordered information=A1=AF may not work = well. An optional solution is for Tracker to respond with separated = peerlists. For example, the first part of peerlist is sent to requesting = peers including the most preferred peers, then the requesting peers will = first try the preferred peers. The second part of the peerlist is then = sent to requesting peers after a while, and so on. Yunfei:I am not sure about if this is in scope.We can discuss more = about this. Omer: good suggestions. As Yunfei says maybe not in this scope and = probably we=A1=AFll have to end up with both, namely =A1=AEsuggested = order not mandatory=A1=AF and ability to send them all in one response = or in various lists. =20 4. I=A1=AFm less sure how this should be tackled (and if at all under = this scope) but to my experience, sometimes, the tracker should be able = to =A1=AEredirect=A1=AF the peer to another channel/swarm. Example: the = same channel/event is being broadcasted from multiple encoders (for = redundancy and scalability) and the tracker acts also as a = =A1=AEbalancer=A1=AF to spread the viewers among the swarms. In some = other cases, such as in multiple stream qualities for =A1=AEadaptive = bandwidth=A1=AF (not SVC but multiple channels in different qualities = thus the way it is done in Silverlight) the tracker =A1=AEpicks=A1=AF = the channel according to pre-defined rules or strategies (e.g. customers = that paid for the service will be redirected to a high-quality channel = while the non-paying customers to a lower-quality channel).=20 =20 Gu yj: Could this redirection be done before requests are sent to = Tracker? I mean the consumer interface of the application can instruct = which channel a peer could watch. Yunfei:The senario may be as follows,the source doesn't excpect the = burst and the "split" occurs dynamically. Omer: Gu yj is right, the meta-requests could be done before to another = =A1=AEsuper tracker=A1=AF service and then, only when the peer knows the = =A1=AEexact channel=A1=AF, approaching the tracker for the peer-list. = So, probably not in this scope at all. =20 5. To some extent the tracker should also, directly or indirectly, = receive feedback, such as status and statistics, from the peers. Basic = example is the peer=A1=AFs viewing quality. This information, usually, = is not being used to help the specific peer but the aggregation of such = information helps the platform/tracker to identify = =A1=AEstarvation=A1=AF cases and as a result to allocate additional = resources to the swarm. =20 Gu yj: Totally agree! =20 Regards, Omer =09 =09 =09 =09 = *************************************************************************= *********** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & = computer viruses. = *************************************************************************= *********** =09 =09 =09 = *************************************************************************= *********** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & = computer viruses. = *************************************************************************= *********** *************************************************************************= *********** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & = computer viruses. *************************************************************************= *********** ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7A62.484AA126 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you Yunfei and Yingjie, great = comments,

Mine inline.

 

Regards

Omer

 

From:= = zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:17 AM
To: Y.J. Gu; Omer Luzzatti; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol

 

Hi,yingjie,<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>

   = Please see inline for the reply.

 

BR

Yunfei

 

zhangyunfei

2009-12-11=

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Y.J. = Gu

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3= =BA 2009-12-11 10:03:47

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA 'Omer = Luzzatti'; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA =

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: = [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol

 

Hi = Omer,=

Thank you for putting forward these issues to arouse discussions on Tracker = protocol. =

See in line = please. =

 

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 

 

From:= ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Omer Luzzatti
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:50 PM
To: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker = protocol=

Dear = all,

A few comments/questions = regarding the peer<->tracker protocol:

 

1.    I = believe that the protocol should reflect the fact that sometimes the tracker may = =A1=AErecruit=A1=AF additional resources to the swarm. This ability to =A1=AErecruit=A1=AF = nodes helps facilitating the streaming in most p2p existing live streaming = platforms. These recruited nodes may be =A1=AEsuper-nodes=A1=AF (hosted by the provider = or identified as such by the platform), or regular nodes called to hold some segments of = data.

 

Gu yj: Agree. I = would say that recruited nodes could also be caches, CDN servers, or even content servers. These recruited nodes are usually configured in the Tracker or notified by out-of-band protocol. But it also could be reflected by = Tracker protocol if the recruited peers understand Tracker protocol. The Tracker protocol (i.e. peer<->tracker protocol) will respond requesting = peers with peerlists including these recruited nodes. =

 

= Yunfei=A3=BAYingjie raised another interesting = problem.I would like ask Omer to clarify his intention? Do you mean "recruiting"some nodes who haven't have tracker protocol?Or = just "recruting"addtional peers since the tracker may not hold the complete set of peers.

Anyway,Yingj= ie's comments make me consider another points,can/need we add some additional servers(nodes) who may be not PPSP nodes but can = contribute to PPSP swarm?

 

Omer: Indeed my = point was about peers within the network, those that =A1=AEknow=A1=AF the PPSP = protocol. Yunfei=A1=AFs rightly hints that in the case that the tracker holds the = complete set of peers this solution may not be needed, however, in a multi-channel environment the situation gets complex; here=A1=AFs why: whenever one = channel with many viewers needs more =A1=AEsuper-nodes=A1=AF, these super-nodes, who = may have helped other channels in the past, should be actively called to help in the specific = channel in starvation. Thus, in my mind, super-nodes are resources that are = actively monitored and called to help when they are needed for BW or storage. =

As for the = protocol itself, both could be used: a permanent connection, in which the tracker = pushes a =A1=AEplease join channelX=A1=AF message to the SN, or a heartbeat = =A8C =A1=AEam I needed=A1=AF message from the SN to the tracker followed by a response from the = Tracker. Note that in both cases the tracker =A1=AEasks=A1=AF the SN to join a = channel.

 

2.    Related = to the above and yet somewhat more delicate question is whether different nodes = have different =A1=AEroles=A1=AF. The most obvious example, related to = super-nodes, is the need of a consumer node to be aware of the fact that in the retrieved = peer-list some of the nodes are indeed super-nodes (thus are reliable, have all = data, etc=A1=AD). In a different example the recruited nodes may be called to = behave differently and e.g. not to fetch the entire media stream/file but only parts of it = (VOD p2p streaming is an obvious case for this).

 

Gu yj: This is an interesting point! As for the first example, my concerns is that if = consumer nodes know who are super-nodes and most requests are send to the = super-nodes (because every node want  guaranteed downloading ), the super-nodes will become hot points and we = know what happen next. So I suspect whether consumer nodes should be able to identify super-nodes. It could be Tracker=A1=AFs duty to make sure that super-nodes(as well as other good-quality nodes) are well utilized. As = for the second example, I think it=A1=AFs not what Tracker Protocol should = do.

Yu= nfei=A3=BAAgree.<= /p>

 

Omer: I = actually disagree on two grounds (but agree we don=A1=AFt have to agree now = :-))

  &nbs= p;  1) the only way to guarantee service from moment one is to have the = peers know which are the super-nodes.

  &nbs= p;  2) in my mind the only way to protect the super-nodes and to make sure = they will not be attacked is to let the peers know these are indeed the = super-nodes and should be approached only in the =A1=AElast moment=A1=AF for = segments the peer hasn=A1=AFt received from other peers. How would a peer know otherwise that a = neighbor peer e.g. within its LAN (or a strong caching peer provided by the ISP) is = one that could be used without limitations while super nodes peers are to be = approached only in =A1=AElast moment=A1=AF. I do assume (and/or securely validate) = the PPSP clients are =A1=AEtrustable=A1=AF.

More generally = we=A1=AFre touching a point here that seems to be crucial - both my arguments above = assume PPSP is (indeed ambitiously) trying to build a real TV-IP P2P solution = and thus should approach questions such as startup-time, delays, QoS, and = targeted SLA.  If so =A1=AEreliable sources=A1=AF of this or that kind must = be part of the system and (as I tried to convince) =A1=AEknown=A1=AF to the other peers = as such.

 

3.  The tracker peer = list might also include additional information about the peers in the peer list. = Common additional information is the =A1=AEzone=A1=AF the peers are from (be a = =A1=AEzone=A1=AF the country, or the actual ISP), LAN information, NAT types, = =A1=AErole=A1=AF (see my previous point), and so on. This has to be somehow combined with ALTO = which most probably will contribute an In-ISP information. Another related = point is whether the peers in the peer-list are = =A1=AEordered=A1=AF.

 

Gu yj: I agree with = your =A1=AEordered peers=A1=AF idea. The order can show the priority that = Tracker want peers to understand. As to my best knowledge, some P2P applications don=A1=AFt = follow the order in the peerlist, in which case =A1=AEordered information=A1=AF may = not work well. An optional solution is for Tracker to respond with separated peerlists. = For example, the first part of peerlist is sent to requesting peers = including the most preferred peers, then the requesting peers will first try the = preferred peers. The second part of the peerlist is then sent to requesting peers = after a while, and so on.

Yu= nfei:I am not sure about if this is in scope.We can discuss more about = this.

Omer: good suggestions. As Yunfei says maybe not in this scope and probably = we=A1=AFll have to end up with both, namely =A1=AEsuggested order not mandatory=A1=AF and = ability to send them all in one response or in various lists.

 

4. I=A1=AFm less sure how = this should be tackled (and if at all under this scope) but to my experience, = sometimes, the tracker should be able to =A1=AEredirect=A1=AF the peer to another = channel/swarm. Example: the same channel/event is being broadcasted from multiple = encoders (for redundancy and scalability) and the tracker acts also as a = =A1=AEbalancer=A1=AF to spread the viewers among the swarms. In some other cases, such as in = multiple stream qualities for =A1=AEadaptive bandwidth=A1=AF (not SVC but = multiple channels in different qualities thus the way it is done in Silverlight) the tracker = =A1=AEpicks=A1=AF the channel according to pre-defined rules or strategies (e.g. customers = that paid for the service will be redirected to a high-quality channel while = the non-paying customers to a lower-quality channel).

 

Gu yj: Could this redirection be done before requests are sent to Tracker? I mean the = consumer interface of the application can instruct which channel a peer could = watch.

Yu= nfei:The senario may be as follows,the source doesn't excpect the burst and the = "split" occurs = dynamically.

Omer: Gu yj is = right, the meta-requests could be done before to another =A1=AEsuper = tracker=A1=AF service and then, only when the peer knows the =A1=AEexact channel=A1=AF, = approaching the tracker for the peer-list. So, probably not in this scope at = all.

 

5. To some extent the tracker = should also, directly or indirectly, receive feedback, such as status and = statistics, from the peers. Basic example is the peer=A1=AFs viewing quality. This = information, usually, is not being used to help the specific peer but the aggregation = of such information helps the platform/tracker to identify = =A1=AEstarvation=A1=AF cases and as a result to allocate additional resources to the = swarm.

 

Gu yj: Totally = agree!

 

Regards,

=

Omer





*************************************************************************= ***********
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & = computer viruses.
*************************************************************************= ***********




*************************************************************************= ***********
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & = computer viruses.
*************************************************************************= ***********





*************************************************************************= ***********
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & = computer viruses.
*************************************************************************= ***********





************************************************************************************
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses.
************************************************************************************

------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7A62.484AA126-- From omer@rayv.com Fri Dec 11 05:20:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA0B3A6929 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:20:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.366 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.366 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.142, BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_BACKHAIR_47=1, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_84=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_92=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lJPbyrQInh9o for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rayv.com (mx6.rayv.com [204.246.235.236]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7D43A67FA for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from Internal Mail-Server by mx6 (envelope-from omer@rayv.com) with SMTP; 11 Dec 2009 15:20:21 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA7A64.AECF5E0B" Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:20:17 +0200 Message-ID: <1AE07DCFE13D9A42B4EBA60C04A00A510238810E@pooh.RayV.ltd> In-Reply-To: <200912111046069684730@chinamobile.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RE: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol Thread-Index: Acp6DCayIOyXWUhmQjSh6TeabWUiGQAVmSCw References: <200912111046069684730@chinamobile.com> From: "Omer Luzzatti" To: "zhangyunfei" , "Kang Heng WU" , Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:20:41 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7A64.AECF5E0B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Kent as well and indeed gossip protocols could be utilized. =20 Moreover, indeed building a scalable multi-channel environment solution = with specific QoS (delays, startup times, quality) is a challenge on the = tracker side as well. Yunfei, if you=A1=AFd like I can try and sketch = the components/algorithms/architecture of such a =A1=AEtracker=A1=AF for = the March meeting. =20 Regards Omer =20 From: zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]=20 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:46 AM To: Kang Heng WU; Omer Luzzatti; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: RE: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol =20 Hi Kent, I agree with your points.One point to stress is that the trackers = may be a "cluster"of nodes or "distributed"node sets. So the bottleneck = problem can be avoided in some sense.And the "additional resource = recruting"is the complementary means. Basically we rely on the peers to = find the resource themselves. The evalution of how much the workload such intelligent algorithm = can bring to the tracker is an interesting point for PPSP group and we = need more detailed work to support. =20 BR Yunfei =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2009-12-11 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Kang Heng WU =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-11 10:43:18 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei; Omer Luzzatti; ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA RE: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker = protocol =20 Hi Yunfei and Omer, =20 Tracker will be a bottleneck in p2p network. If the intelligence = algorithm runs in tracker side, the startup performance of peer will be = good. But the supporting users of the tracker will be small. Maybe some = intelligence algorithm can run in peer side. The peers can gossip each = other and find out a good solution. My detail comments are as follows. =20 Thanks, Kent =20 -----Original Message----- From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = zhangyunfei Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:04 AM To: Omer Luzzatti; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol =20 Dear Omer, Thanks for your comments.It's very informative and instructive.Please = see inline for the reply.Thanks again! =20 BR Yunfei =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2009-12-11 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Omer Luzzatti =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-10 22:08:12 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol =20 Dear all, A few comments/questions regarding the peer<->tracker protocol: =20 1. I believe that the protocol should reflect the fact that sometimes = the tracker may =A1=AErecruit=A1=AF additional resources to the swarm. = This ability to =A1=AErecruit=A1=AF nodes helps facilitating the = streaming in most p2p existing live streaming platforms. These recruited = nodes may be =A1=AEsuper-nodes=A1=AF (hosted by the provider or = identified as such by the platform), or regular nodes called to hold = some segments of data. Sound interesting.If we have such mechanism, the streaming quality in = the starting time may be better.The key is how to balance this = "proactive" message and the "feedback" periodic message from the peer to = the tracker. Do they have the same effect?Or better if combined?=20 =20 2. Related to the above and yet somewhat more delicate question is = whether different nodes have different =A1=AEroles=A1=AF. The most = obvious example, related to super-nodes, is the need of a consumer node = to be aware of the fact that in the retrieved peer-list some of the = nodes are indeed super-nodes (thus are reliable, have all data, = etc=A1=AD). In a different example the recruited nodes may be called to = behave differently and e.g. not to fetch the entire media stream/file = but only parts of it (VOD p2p streaming is an obvious case for this). I think the peer tracker protocol shall covers this message.=20 =20 3. The tracker peer list might also include additional information = about the peers in the peer list. Common additional information is the = =A1=AEzone=A1=AF the peers are from (be a =A1=AEzone=A1=AF the country, = or the actual ISP), LAN information, NAT types, =A1=AErole=A1=AF (see my = previous point), and so on. This has to be somehow combined with ALTO = which most probably will contribute an In-ISP information. Another = related point is whether the peers in the peer-list are = =A1=AEordered=A1=AF. We share the same opinion on this. Some "zone" or "network location"info = shall be reflected in PPSP information. As for the "order"of the peers in the peerlist, this seems a problem out = of the scope of PPSP.PPSP just deals with information exchange. The = following action done by the tracker seems vendor dependent,e.g, what = order of the returned peers . Different p2p streaming vendors can do = this differently. Kent: The tracker provides the simple statistic information. = The peer can use this kind simple statistic to find out a set of good = peers. 4 4. I=A1=AFm less sure how this should be tackled (and if at all = under this scope) but to my experience, sometimes, the tracker should be = able to =A1=AEredirect=A1=AF the peer to another channel/swarm. Example: = the same channel/event is being broadcasted from multiple encoders (for = redundancy and scalability) and the tracker acts also as a = =A1=AEbalancer=A1=AF to spread the viewers among the swarms. In some = other cases, such as in multiple stream qualities for =A1=AEadaptive = bandwidth=A1=AF (not SVC but multiple channels in different qualities = thus the way it is done in Silverlight) the tracker =A1=AEpicks=A1=AF = the channel according to pre-defined rules or strategies (e.g. customers = that paid for the service will be redirected to a high-quality channel = while the non-paying customers to a lower-quality channel).=20 Very interesting!I think this can be a very good feather if the = tracker has such ability when we want to run a real P2P streaming = system.I'd like to see more discussion about this in the mailing list. Kent: About the =A1=B0redirect=A1=B1, can the tracker reply = =A1=B0several qualities channels=A1=B1 to peer. The peer can select the = suitable channel according to its network environment or user habit.=20 =20 5. To some extent the tracker should also, directly or indirectly, = receive feedback, such as status and statistics, from the peers. Basic = example is the peer=A1=AFs viewing quality. This information, usually, = is not being used to help the specific peer but the aggregation of such = information helps the platform/tracker to identify = =A1=AEstarvation=A1=AF cases and as a result to allocate additional = resources to the swarm. =20 I agree.We address the same point in the problem statement draft and I = think this can be done in the second stage. =20 Regards, Omer *************************************************************************= *********** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & = computer viruses. *************************************************************************= *********** =20 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s = use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or = legally privileged information intended for a specific individual and = purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, = please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, = destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, = disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message and/or any = attachments is strictly prohi bited.=20 ________________________________ =20 *************************************************************************= *********** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & = computer viruses. *************************************************************************= *********** ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7A64.AECF5E0B Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I agree with Kent as well and indeed gossip protocols = could be utilized.

 

Moreover, indeed building a scalable multi-channel = environment solution with specific QoS (delays, startup times, quality) is a = challenge on the tracker side as well. Yunfei, if you=A1=AFd like I can try and = sketch the components/algorithms/architecture of such a =A1=AEtracker=A1=AF for the March = meeting.

 

Regards

Omer

 

From:= = zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:46 AM
To: Kang Heng WU; Omer Luzzatti; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: RE: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol

 

Hi = Kent,

    = I agree with your points.One point to stress is that the trackers may be a "cluster"of nodes or "distributed"node sets. So the bottleneck problem can be avoided in some sense.And the "additional resource recruting"is the complementary means. Basically we rely on = the peers to find the resource themselves.

    = The evalution of how much the workload such intelligent algorithm can bring = to the tracker is an interesting point for PPSP group and we need more detailed = work to support.

 

BR

Yunfei

 

zhangyunfei

2009-12-11=

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Kang Heng = WU

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3= =BA 2009-12-11 10:43:18

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA = zhangyunfei; Omer Luzzatti; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA =

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA RE: = [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol

 

Hi Yunfei and = Omer,

 

Tracker will be a = bottleneck in p2p network. If the intelligence algorithm runs in tracker side, the = startup performance of peer will be good. But the supporting users of the = tracker will be small. Maybe some intelligence algorithm can run in peer side. The = peers can gossip each other and find out a good solution. My detail comments are = as follows.

 

Thanks,

Kent

 

-----Origina= l Message-----
From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of zhangyunfei
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:04 AM
To: Omer Luzzatti; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker = protocol

 

Dear Omer,

   Thanks for your comments.It's very = informative and instructive.Please see inline for the reply.Thanks = again!

 

BR

Yunfei

 

zhangyunfei

2009-12-11

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Omer Luzzatti

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA = 2009-12-10 22:08:12

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol

 

Dear = all,

A = few comments/questions regarding the peer<->tracker = protocol:

 

1.    I believe that the protocol should reflect the fact that sometimes the = tracker may =A1=AErecruit=A1=AF additional resources to the swarm. This ability = to =A1=AErecruit=A1=AF nodes helps facilitating the streaming in most p2p existing live = streaming platforms. These recruited nodes may be =A1=AEsuper-nodes=A1=AF (hosted = by the provider or identified as such by the platform), or regular nodes called to hold = some segments of data.

 Sound interesting.If we have such = mechanism, the streaming quality in the starting time may be better.The = key is how to balance this "proactive" message and the = "feedback" periodic message from the peer to the tracker. Do they = have the same effect?Or better if combined? 

    &nbs= p;        

2.    Related to the above and yet somewhat more delicate question is whether different nodes have different =A1=AEroles=A1=AF. The most obvious = example, related to super-nodes, is the need of a consumer node to be aware of the fact that = in the retrieved peer-list some of the nodes are indeed super-nodes (thus are reliable, have all data, etc=A1=AD). In a different example the = recruited nodes may be called to behave differently and e.g. not to fetch the entire media stream/file but only parts of it (VOD p2p streaming is an obvious case = for this).

I think the peer tracker protocol shall = covers this message. 

 

3.  The tracker peer list might also include additional information about the = peers in the peer list. Common additional information is the =A1=AEzone=A1=AF the = peers are from (be a =A1=AEzone=A1=AF the country, or the actual ISP), LAN information, = NAT types, =A1=AErole=A1=AF (see my previous point), and so on. This has to be = somehow combined with ALTO which most probably will contribute an In-ISP information. Another = related point is whether the peers in the peer-list are = =A1=AEordered=A1=AF.

We share the same opinion on this. Some "zone" or "network location"info shall be reflected = in PPSP information.

As for the "order"of the peers in the peerlist, this seems a problem out of the scope of PPSP.PPSP just deals with information = exchange. The following action done by the tracker seems vendor dependent,e.g, what = order of the returned peers . Different p2p streaming vendors can do this differently.

    &nbs= p;       Kent: The tracker provides the simple statistic information. The peer = can use this kind simple statistic to find out a set of good = peers.

 4&nbs= p; 4. I=A1=AFm less sure how this should be tackled (and if at all under = this scope) but to my experience, sometimes, the tracker should be able to = =A1=AEredirect=A1=AF the peer to another channel/swarm. Example: the same channel/event is being broadcasted from multiple encoders (for redundancy and scalability) and = the tracker acts also as a =A1=AEbalancer=A1=AF to spread the viewers among = the swarms. In some other cases, such as in multiple stream qualities for = =A1=AEadaptive bandwidth=A1=AF (not SVC but multiple channels in different qualities thus the way it is = done in Silverlight) the tracker =A1=AEpicks=A1=AF the channel according to = pre-defined rules or strategies (e.g. customers that paid for the service will be = redirected to a high-quality channel while the non-paying customers to a lower-quality channel).

      Very interesting!I think this can be a very good feather if the tracker has = such ability when we want to run a real P2P streaming system.I'd like to see = more discussion about this in the mailing list.

Ke= nt: About the =A1=B0redirect=A1=B1, can the tracker reply =A1=B0several = qualities channels=A1=B1 to peer. The peer can select the suitable channel according to its network environment or user habit.

 =

5. = To some extent the tracker should also, directly or indirectly, receive = feedback, such as status and statistics, from the peers. Basic example is the = peer=A1=AFs viewing quality. This information, usually, is not being used to help the = specific peer but the aggregation of such information helps the platform/tracker to = identify =A1=AEstarvation=A1=AF cases and as a result to allocate additional = resources to the swarm.

 

I agree.We address the same point in the = problem statement draft and I think this can be done in the second = stage.

 

Regards,

Omer





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 =

This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally privileged = information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. = If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all = copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the = sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohi bited.

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------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7A64.AECF5E0B-- From guyingjie@huawei.com Sun Dec 13 17:17:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 811383A6989 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:17:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.359 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.359 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.357, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KOg7stQkSqDQ for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B913A697E for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:17:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KUM00JM5BKYVX@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:17:22 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KUM00AZOBKYEB@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:17:22 +0800 (CST) Received: from g00107907 ([10.164.12.64]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KUM00GOSBKXRD@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:17:22 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:17:21 +0800 From: "Y.J. Gu" In-reply-to: <1AE07DCFE13D9A42B4EBA60C04A00A510238810E@pooh.RayV.ltd> To: ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <002201ca7c5b$2fc1d220$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_0e4v5XHg1bSPyOeoPwjdWg)" Thread-index: Acp6DCayIOyXWUhmQjSh6TeabWUiGQAVmSCwAH3IbiA= Subject: [ppsp] Call for contribution. X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:17:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_0e4v5XHg1bSPyOeoPwjdWg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi all, I am now working on the PPSP Tracker protocol draft and I sincerely hope more people would contribute to the draft. Are there anybody else would like to work together on the draft? Thank you very much. Regards Yingjie Gu --Boundary_(ID_0e4v5XHg1bSPyOeoPwjdWg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi all,
I am now working on the PPSP Tracker protocol draft and I sincerely hope more people would contribute to the draft. Are there anybody else would like to work together on the draft?
Thank you very much.
 

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 
--Boundary_(ID_0e4v5XHg1bSPyOeoPwjdWg)-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Sun Dec 13 18:28:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9297E28C0E6 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:28:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -93.065 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-93.065 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.508, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZtCiWg8wViHP for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:28:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701A728C0DF for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:28:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.39]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009121410370955-7520 ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:37:09 +0800 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:28:17 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Y.J. Gu" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <002201ca7c5b$2fc1d220$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> Message-ID: <200912141028065466368@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-14 10:37:09, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-14 10:28:24, Serialize complete at 2009-12-14 10:28:24 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon733235681443_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] Call for contribution. 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Pg0K --=====003_Dragon733235681443_=====-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Sun Dec 13 18:33:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EE7C28C0F2 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:33:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -91.404 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-91.404 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.231, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_BACKHAIR_47=1, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_84=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_92=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 78AHkkTqV+LL for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:33:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA0F28C0EE for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:33:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.39]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009121410420877-7764 ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:42:08 +0800 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:33:15 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Omer Luzzatti" , "Kang Heng WU" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <200912111046069684730@chinamobile.com> <1AE07DCFE13D9A42B4EBA60C04A00A510238810E@pooh.RayV.ltd> Message-ID: <200912141033158127018@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-14 10:42:08, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-14 10:33:20, Serialize complete at 2009-12-14 10:33:20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon017540515743_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] charter discussion, peer<->tracker protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:33:36 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon017540515743_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" SGkgT21lciwNCiAgIEl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGdyZWF0IGlmIHdlIGNhbiBoZWFyIG1vcmUgdGhpbmdz IGluIHRoZSB0cmFja2VyIHBhcnQgZm9yIE1hcmNoIG1lZXRpbmcuSXQncyBoZWxwZnVsIGZvciB0 cmFja2VyIHByb3RvY29sIGRlc2lnbi5UaGFua3Mgc28gbXVjaCBmb3IgeW91ciBjb250cmlidXRp b24uDQoNCkJSDQpZdW5mZWkNCg0KDQoNCg0Kemhhbmd5dW5mZWkNCjIwMDktMTItMTQNCg0KDQoN CreivP7Iy6O6IE9tZXIgTHV6emF0dGkNCreiy83Ksbzko7ogMjAwOS0xMi0xMSAyMjowNjowNQ0K ytW8/sjLo7ogemhhbmd5dW5mZWk7IEthbmcgSGVuZyBXVTsgcHBzcEBpZXRmLm9yZw0Ks63LzaO6 IA0K1vfM4qO6IFJFOiBSRTogW3Bwc3BdIGNoYXJ0ZXIgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiwgcGVlcjwtPnRyYWNr 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KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKio8QlI+VGhpcyAN CmZvb3Rub3RlIGNvbmZpcm1zIHRoYXQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlIGhhcyBiZWVuIHNjYW5u ZWQgYnk8QlI+UGluZUFwcCANCk1haWwtU2VDdXJlIGZvciB0aGUgcHJlc2VuY2Ugb2YgbWFsaWNp b3VzIGNvZGUsIHZhbmRhbHMgJmFtcDsgY29tcHV0ZXIgDQp2aXJ1c2VzLjxCUj4qKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKio8QlI+PEJSPjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj48L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1MPg0K --=====003_Dragon017540515743_=====-- From zhijia08@gmail.com Sun Dec 20 22:40:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA233A6994 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:40:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.694, BAYES_50=0.001, CN_BODY_35=0.339, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SzBLVErqo5-W for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:40:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f195.google.com (mail-iw0-f195.google.com [209.85.223.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C443A67CC for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so3461239iwn.29 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:39:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=Bmt70/xcQOqbnvY8g4Rv4mJpNxhBeitdkTg30mFy9Ts=; b=pwPM7SNz111mKv48xj6CmTmYoJvbakqX8kmHeaNwbxwEh8hwFYnG5KuieVbMSk6tF6 qjaybP2dZ/L3/GNoWYg3BZ1FkF/nqBe2oC8ZbKhwEPSne7bjIQrrwZuc0hGPKYmp1XyU 8e2yWHHC4gVQyr/7ExHd1ZEaJ1QbbG9bmZmWY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=FLi31SzsRZJdpy1vZqzAIYmDiYuBCdzR4wYoLY42yFDVdP7AeJIii/CN46a5t5+XnR fGAmBRuGv+jo8CfqbEd1Ot8Cp8/Vh+TQWvj0zzx3zJAbrJd6PP2PClWL0ASL/9aoia+W pDPuH4gEHQe9p75eIH00FBvmCOMP5LTTO7eBw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.120.136 with SMTP id d8mr1890408ibr.14.1261377599513; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:39:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:39:59 +0800 Message-ID: From: zhijia chen To: ppsp@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e644c18ebf23e6047b375b84 Subject: Re: [ppsp] Call for contribution. X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:41:42 -0000 --0016e644c18ebf23e6047b375b84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, We are engineers from and would like to contribute on the PPSP Tracker protocol draft in proper way. Force Innovation Technology Inc=A3=A8Beijing=A3=A9 is one pioneer in gl= obal Peer-to-Peer(P2P) Video streaming market, one of the most professional enterprise-grade and telecom-class P2P VOD/live broadcasting streaming solution provider for worldwide customers, and also the international industry-leading mobile streaming product and solution provider. The Force P2P streaming system achieves the 3-screen streaming solution strategy, which can widely support terminals like traditional PC machine, IPTV Set-To= p Box (STB) and mobile phones, etc. ForceTech is currently among the top tier as one of the most professional commercial P2P streaming software technology providers in Chin= a and has successfully supported the live broadcasting/VOD applications with nearly one million of concurrent users for tens of Medias for providing national program like Online Spring Festival Gala of China, Confucius Culture Festival, XTV Space, Hbol Online, etc.In comparison with the Microsoft MediaServer system, with the same hardware environment, the Force P2P Streaming system can scale 3-5 times in VOD service and 5-10 times in live video broadcasting service. We would like to share both our system experience and research explorations to make possible contribution to such interesting work. Dr. Chen Zhijia *Force Innovation Technology Inc. * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =CF=C2=C3=E6=CA=C7=BB=D8=B8=B4=D3=CA=BC=FE =3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D ------------------------------ *=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: *zhangyunfei *=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: *czj *=B3=AD =CB=CD: * *=D6=F7 =CC=E2: *Fw: Call for contribution. *=CA=B1 =BC=E4: *2009-12-18 16:19 ------------------------------ zhangyunfei 2009-12-18 ------------------------------ *=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA* Y.J. Gu *=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA* 2009-12-14 09:26:16 *=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA* ppsp@ietf.org *=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA* 'zhangyunfei' *=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA* Call for contribution. Hi all, I am now working on the PPSP Tracker protocol draft and I sincerely hope more people would contribute to the draft. Are there anybody else would lik= e to work together on the draft? Thank you very much. Regards Yingjie Gu --0016e644c18ebf23e6047b375b84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,

    We are engin= eers from  and would like to contribute on the PPSP Tracker protocol d= raft in proper way.
    Force Innovation Technology Inc=A3=A8Beijing=A3=A9 is one pioneer in global Peer-to-Peer(P2P) Video streaming mark= et, one of the most professional enterprise-grade and telecom-class P2P VOD= /live broadcasting streaming solution provider for worldwide customers, and= also the international industry-leading mobile streaming product and solut= ion provider. The Force P2P streaming system achi= eves the 3-screen streaming solution strategy, which can widely support ter= minals like traditional PC machine, IPTV Set-Top Box (STB) and mobile phone= s, etc. 
      ForceTech is currently among the top tier as one of the most profe= ssional commercial P2P streaming software technology providers in China and= has successfully supported the live broadcasting/VOD applications with nea= rly one million of concurrent users for tens of Medias for providing nation= al program like Online Spring Festival Gala of China, Confucius Culture Fes= tival, XTV Space, Hbol Online, etc.In comparison with = the Microsoft MediaServer system, with the same hardware environment, the F= orce P2P Streaming system can scale 3-5 times in VOD service and 5-10 times= in live video broadcasting service. 
    We would like to share both our system experience and re= search explorations to make possible contribution to such interesting work.=



Dr. Chen Zhijia
Force Innovation Technology Inc.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =CF=C2=C3=E6=CA=C7=BB=D8=B8=B4=D3=CA=BC=FE =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: zhangyunfei<zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:= czj<czj@forcetech.net> =
=B3=AD =CB=CD:
=D6=F7 =CC=E2: Fw: Call for contributi= on.
=CA=B1 =BC=E4: 2009-12-18 16:19

 
 
zhangyunfei<= /font>
2009-12-18
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA Y.J. Gu
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4=A3=BA 2009-12-14 09:26:16
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA 'zhangyunfei'
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Call for contribution.
 
Hi all,
I am now working on&nbs= p;the PPSP Tracker protocol draft and I sincerely hope more people wou= ld contribute to the draft. Are there anybody else would like to work toget= her on the draft?
Thank you very much.
&nb= sp;

Regards=

Yingjie Gu
&nb= sp;
--0016e644c18ebf23e6047b375b84-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Sun Dec 20 22:55:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA4D3A69A1 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:55:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.547 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.547 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.087, BAYES_50=0.001, CN_BODY_35=0.339, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4sTn4YpWLdms for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C1883A659A for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:54:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.149]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009122115040444-17246 ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:04:04 +0800 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:54:39 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "zhijia chen" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: Message-ID: <200912211454396250558@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-21 15:04:04, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-21 14:54:43, Serialize complete at 2009-12-21 14:54:43 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon157031318171_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] Call for contribution. 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--=====003_Dragon157031318171_=====-- From lars.eggert@nokia.com Sun Dec 20 23:42:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2DFA3A6910 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 23:42:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.095, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pbvg0d0M-uVG for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 23:42:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.tele.fi (smtp.tele.fi [192.89.123.25]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA41A3A6908 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 23:42:26 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-Ip: [212.213.221.241] Received: from host-241.nrln.net (host-241.nrln.net [212.213.221.241]) by smtp.tele.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3CFCC6 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:42:09 +0200 (EET) Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com ([212.213.221.40]) by host-241.nrln.net (Lotus Domino Release 6.5) with ESMTP id 2009122109481194-13386 ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:48:11 +0200 Received: from [IPv6:2001:14b8:18f::225:ff:fe45:eccf] ([IPv6:2001:14b8:18f:0:225:ff:fe45:eccf]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.fit.nokia.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBL7g3P3041676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:42:03 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lars.eggert@nokia.com) From: Lars Eggert Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:41:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <94705745-40BC-4078-908B-98CE0B0290B6@nokia.com> To: ppsp@ietf.org References: <94705745-40BC-4078-908B-98CE0B0290B6@nokia.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (mail.fit.nokia.com [IPv6:2001:708:40:fff1::1]); Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:42:03 +0200 (EET) X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on host-241/srv/nrln(Release 6.5|September 26, 2003) at 12/21/2009 09:48:11 AM, Serialize by Router on host-241/srv/nrln(Release 6.5|September 26, 2003) at 12/21/2009 09:48:12 AM, Serialize complete at 12/21/2009 09:48:12 AM Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--393723589; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Subject: Re: [ppsp] BOF follow-up X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:42:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail-4--393723589 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I'd like to check where we are with the BOF followup. Is there an = updated charter proposal and/or updated drafts yet? Thanks, Lars On 2009-11-18, at 16:55, Eggert Lars (Nokia-NRC/Espoo) wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I wanted to send a quick follow-up now that the BOF has happened, to = let you all know where I think we are. >=20 > My take away was that the BOF went well, and there is interest and = energy in the community to take on some work in this space. On the other = hand, the discussion made it clear that the charter proposal needs some = additional revising (stressing the realtime aspects of the system, = further narrowing of scope, etc.) before we can decide if we want to go = ahead with it. >=20 > I'd like to ask the BOF chairs (Yunfei and Gonzalo) to continue to = lead the needed follow-up discussion that will get us to the point where = PPSP can be chartered. >=20 > Lars --Apple-Mail-4--393723589 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGbDCCAyUw ggKOoAMCAQICEAdjk36sXKbnVn15S0/qUp0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA5MDYxNTExMjYxNFoXDTEwMDYxNTExMjYx NFowXDEPMA0GA1UEBBMGRWdnZXJ0MQ0wCwYDVQQqEwRMYXJzMRQwEgYDVQQDEwtMYXJzIEVnZ2Vy 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--Apple-Mail-4--393723589-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Mon Dec 21 00:37:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4D53A689B for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:37:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.722 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.251, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_66=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y537TIYZuWy5 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00F5B3A6829 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.149]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009122116464774-21224 ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:46:47 +0800 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:37:23 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Lars Eggert" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <94705745-40BC-4078-908B-98CE0B0290B6@nokia.com> Message-ID: <200912211637228434347@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-21 16:46:47, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-21 16:37:29, Serialize complete at 2009-12-21 16:37:29 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon074716787254_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] BOF follow-up X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: 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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1ClPpsXVVQkQ for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.tele.fi (smtp.tele.fi [192.89.123.25]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0C628C0CF for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:16:35 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-Ip: [212.213.221.241] Received: from host-241.nrln.net (host-241.nrln.net [212.213.221.241]) by smtp.tele.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84ACD1392; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:16:17 +0200 (EET) Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com ([212.213.221.40]) by host-241.nrln.net (Lotus Domino Release 6.5) with ESMTP id 2009122111221919-13415 ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:22:19 +0200 Received: from [IPv6:2001:14b8:18f::225:ff:fe45:eccf] ([IPv6:2001:14b8:18f:0:225:ff:fe45:eccf]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.fit.nokia.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBL9GAlm025677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:16:10 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lars.eggert@nokia.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) From: Lars Eggert In-Reply-To: <200912211637228434347@chinamobile.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:16:05 +0200 Message-Id: <1768BE04-9D8C-45C7-ABFD-25170BC22217@nokia.com> References: <94705745-40BC-4078-908B-98CE0B0290B6@nokia.com> <200912211637228434347@chinamobile.com> To: zhangyunfei X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (mail.fit.nokia.com [IPv6:2001:708:40:fff1::1]); Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:16:10 +0200 (EET) X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on host-241/srv/nrln(Release 6.5|September 26, 2003) at 12/21/2009 11:22:19 AM, Serialize by Router on host-241/srv/nrln(Release 6.5|September 26, 2003) at 12/21/2009 11:22:20 AM, Serialize complete at 12/21/2009 11:22:20 AM Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-10--388076180; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] BOF follow-up X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:16:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail-10--388076180 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2009-12-21, at 10:37, zhangyunfei wrote: > Do you have any suggestions on continuing to move PPSP forward? I don't have any further suggestions, you guys have done a really good = job already. My plan is to take the revised charter proposal to the IESG to start = chartering discussions. 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-93.038 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.535, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Me1DG91H4Aeg for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEFA03A688B for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:43:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.149]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009122117525085-24176 ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:52:50 +0800 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:43:26 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Lars Eggert" References: <94705745-40BC-4078-908B-98CE0B0290B6@nokia.com> <200912211637228434347@chinamobile.com> <1768BE04-9D8C-45C7-ABFD-25170BC22217@nokia.com> Message-ID: <200912211743260623853@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-21 17:52:50, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-21 17:43:32, Serialize complete at 2009-12-21 17:43:32 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon120827758457_=====" Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] BOF follow-up X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:43:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon120827758457_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" VGhhbmtzIExhcnMgZm9yIHlvdXIgaGVscC5JIHdpbGwgbWFrZSB0aGUgY29uc2Vuc3VzIG9mIHRo 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J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yAgnN6Zhc155 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 2009 00:52:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0EE3A687D for ; Sat, 26 Dec 2009 00:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.5.3]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009122617014958-12394 ; Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:01:49 +0800 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 16:52:00 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "ppsp@ietf.org" Message-ID: <200912261652001400916@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-26 17:01:58, 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 Dear=20 all,

   T= he latest=20 version of PPSP charter is attached.Welcome to comment on this.I guess many= of=20 you guys are enjoying the Christmas holiday.Merry X'mas and happy new year!= Wish=20 to hear your valuable suggestions in the beginning of=20 2010.:)

  =20 Hope PPSP can have a great development in the new year with all of you= r=20 participation and contribution.

The main modif= ications=20 are:

1)Para 2:

a)wish to make= it=20 better understood about what the tracker protocol and the peer protocol dif= fer=20 in and reply the BOF comments that the two protocols may be a single=20 one;

b)Add the NAT = issue=20 raised in the BOF;

2)Para3:<= /FONT>

a)=20 Para3-bullet 4,adding the gossip=20 communication in peer protocol as discussed in the mailing=20 list;

b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as=20 suggested by Lars that optional part can be detered until we think it=20 clearer;

3= )Para4,=20 adding LEDBAT as reference raised in the BOF.<= SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">

4)Para5,deleting privay raise= d in=20 the BOF.

5)Para6:

a)bullet1:Adding the descript= ion of=20 considering the NAT traversal and the multiple stream senario as discussed = in=20 the BOF and mailing list.

BR

Yunfei 

***************************= **********************************************

it can connect with these peers for further data=20 downloading. 


4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP pe= er=20 protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers advertise data availabil= ity=20 and exchange neighbor peers. The protocol will also define the requests and= =20 responses of data chunks among PPSP peers.

 

However the  design<= SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">  of =20 PPSP  will  consider how it can be combined w= ith the=20 transport mechanisms, including NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP w= ill=20 also consider the scenario of transmission of multiple streams  (layered  media).  This includes considering various= media=20 descriptions (e.g. data chunk description in peer protocol) after investiga= ting=20 different media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their feat= ures=20 in the protocol.

Apr 2010

Working Group Last Call for problem=20 statement

Jun 2010

Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational=20 document

Aug 2010

Working Group Last Call for architecture=20 survey

Aug 2010

Working Group Last Call for=20 requirements

Oct

2010

Submit architecture survey to IESG as Informational=20 document

Oct 2010

Submit requirements to IESG as Informational=20 document

Apr 2011

Working Group Last Call for PPSP peer=20 protocol

Apr

2011

Working Group Last Call for PPSP tracker=20 protocol

Aug 2011

Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed=20 Standard

Aug 2011

Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed=20 Standard

Nov 2011

Working Group Last Call of usage=20 document

Nov 2011

Working Group Last Call of mobility BCP=20 document

Jan 2012

Submit usage document to IESG as Informational=20 document

Jan 2012

Submit mobility BCP document to IESG as Informational=20 document

Apr 2012

Dissolve or re-charter=20

 

 

zhangyunfei
2009-12-26
--=====003_Dragon240626250318_=====-- From meng.yu@zte.com.cn Sun Dec 27 16:44:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90FA3A681D; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 16:44:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -86.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oNY4uHaRytya; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 16:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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PjIwMDktMTItMjY8L2ZvbnQ+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0yPjx0dD5fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxicj4NCnBwc3AgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PGJyPg0KcHBz cEBpZXRmLm9yZzxicj4NCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vcHBz cDxicj4NCjwvdHQ+PC9mb250Pg0KPGJyPg0K --=_alternative 00040C534825769A_=-- From li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Sun Dec 27 17:26:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9133A681D; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:26:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -91.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-91.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B8MIrp-+h7K0; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx6.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [63.218.89.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5BB3A67C2; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:26:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.30.17.99] by mx6.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 91101821921442; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:02:22 +0800 (CST) Received: from [192.168.168.1] by [192.168.168.15] with StormMail ESMTP id 78921.3125858738; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:26:32 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse2.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id nBS1QQCK055509; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:26:26 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from li.lichun1@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <200912261652001400916@chinamobile.com> To: "zhangyunfei" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 Message-ID: From: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:26:15 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at 2009-12-28 09:26:21, Serialize complete at 2009-12-28 09:26:21 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0008077D4825769A_=" X-MAIL: mse2.zte.com.cn nBS1QQCK055509 Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" , ppsp-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:26:58 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0008077D4825769A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIHl1bmZlaS4NClBlZXJzIGNhbiBleGNoYW5nZSBwZWVyIGxpc3RzLCByaWdodD8NCg0KDQpC ZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpMaWNodW4gTGkNCg0KDQoNCg0KInpoYW5neXVuZmVpIiA8emhhbmd5dW5m ZWlAY2hpbmFtb2JpbGUuY29tPiANCreivP7IyzogIHBwc3AtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KMjAw 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J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RYG7DpMp0t2P for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:12:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21AF3A677D for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:12:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.2.2.23]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009122810214012-7437 ; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:21:40 +0800 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:11:43 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "meng.yu@zte.com.cn" References: Message-ID: <200912281011432650472@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-28 10:21:40, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-28 10:11:49, Serialize complete at 2009-12-28 10:11:49 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon573800036373_=====" Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIHBwc3AgcmV2aXNlZCBjaGFydGVyIHByb3Bv?= =?gb2312?b?c2Fs?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 02:12:11 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon573800036373_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" SGkgWXUsDQogICBUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBxdWljayByZXBseS5JIGFncmVlIHdpdGggeW91IHRo YXQgcGVlcnMgYW5kIHJlc291cmNlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGV4Y2hhbmdlIGFtb25nIHRyYWNrZXJz 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX188QlI+cHBzcCBt YWlsaW5nIA0KbGlzdDxCUj5wcHNwQGlldGYub3JnPEJSPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vcHBzcDxCUj48L1RUPjwvRk9OVD48QlI+PC9GT05UPjwvRElWPjwvQk9E WT48L0hUTUw+DQo= --=====003_Dragon573800036373_=====-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Sun Dec 27 18:14:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46C93A677D for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:14:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -90.668 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.668 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.579, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_56=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, 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10:13:57, Serialize complete at 2009-12-28 10:13:57 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon487588153388_=====" Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 02:14:17 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon487588153388_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" WWVzLHlvdSBhcmUgcmlnaHQsTGljaHVuLiANCkFzIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBpbiB0aGUgQk9GIGFuZCBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QscGVlciBnb3NzaXAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGV4Y2hhbmdlIG9mIHBlZXIgbGlzdClj YW4gbWFrZSBwZWVycyBrbm93IG1vcmUgcGVlcnMgYW5kIGFsbGV2aWF0ZSB0aGUgYnVyZGVuIG9m IHRoZSB0cmFja2VyLg0KDQpCUg0KWXVuZmVpDQoNCg0KDQoNCnpoYW5neXVuZmVpDQoyMDA5LTEy 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mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HFiZm3Esn+gD for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77AAB3A6886 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KVC004V1BUWQP@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:20:56 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KVC00AHDBUVZU@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:20:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from z63316 ([10.164.12.81]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KVC008H7BUUO2@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:20:55 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:20:54 +0800 From: Ning Zong In-reply-to: <200912281011432650472@chinamobile.com> To: 'zhangyunfei' , meng.yu@zte.com.cn Message-id: <003901ca8764$627b2f40$510ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_yuTEAK4DV5wT1R6BBOJ5iA)" Thread-index: AcqHYzci4UnT3s/HQO+O42lVCn9IJwAAMd/g Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIHBwc3AgcmV2aXNlZCBjaGFydGVyIHByb3Bv?= =?gb2312?b?c2Fs?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 02:21:21 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_yuTEAK4DV5wT1R6BBOJ5iA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Agree with Yunfei. Interaction between Trackers would be optional at this stage. =20 BR, Ning Zong =20 _____ =20 From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of zhangyunfei Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:12 AM To: meng.yu@zte.com.cn Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] =B4=F0=B8=B4: ppsp revised charter proposal =20 Hi Yu, Thanks for the quick reply.I agree with you that peers and resource information exchange among trackers can broaden the audience scope.But I think this can be placed in a second priority currently. As mentioned in the problem statement draft, PPSP is the necessary component of a p2p streaming system, but not the whole part of a p2p streaming system.With highest priorty, PPSP need to solve the problem of defining the basic message interaction between trackers and peers, as = well as among peers. Also this is a direct reaction for the suggestions in = the BOF and in the mailing list to narrow down the scope. I think we may turn to consider the point you mentioned once we = finish the basic protocol.Thanks again for the suggestion. =20 BR Yunfei =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei 2009-12-28 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 08:54:17 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal =20 Hi,=20 Should the interface protocol between trackers be nessary and covered in PPSP?=20 To my understanding, peers and resource information can be exchanged = through this interface so that streaming could be shared in a much wider extent. = B.R.=20 Merry Christmas!=20 Yu Meng=20 "zhangyunfei" =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 2009-12-26 16:52=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB "ppsp@ietf.org" =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD =20 =D6=F7=CC=E2 [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal =20 =20 =20 Dear all,=20 The latest version of PPSP charter is attached.Welcome to comment on this.I guess many of you guys are enjoying the Christmas holiday.Merry = X'mas and happy new year!Wish to hear your valuable suggestions in the = beginning of 2010.:)=20 Hope PPSP can have a great development in the new year with all of = your participation and contribution.=20 The main modifications are:=20 1)Para 2:=20 a)wish to make it better understood about what the tracker protocol and = the peer protocol differ in and reply the BOF comments that the two = protocols may be a single one;=20 b)Add the NAT issue raised in the BOF;=20 2)Para3:=20 a) Para3-bullet 4,adding the gossip communication in peer protocol as discussed in the mailing list;=20 b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as suggested by Lars that optional part can be detered until we think it clearer;=20 3)Para4, adding LEDBAT as reference raised in the BOF.=20 4)Para5,deleting privay raised in the BOF.=20 5)Para6:=20 a)bullet1:Adding the description of considering the NAT traversal and = the multiple stream senario as discussed in the BOF and mailing list.=20 BR=20 Yunfei=20 *************************************************************************= =20 Description of PPSP Working Group:=20 The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP = protocols) for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, = content distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate in = P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.=20 There are two kinds of components in PPSP protocols, i.e., = =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol =A8C = a signaling protocol between =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1, and the = PPSP peer protocol =A8C a signaling protocol among =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. The two protocols ensure = peers to get streaming data within certain time constraints. PPSP tracker protocol = deals with the initial and periodical exchanges between tracker and peers: initially the peers contact the tracker to report their static = information (like IP address, NAT types and other useful things) and get a list of = peers for a specific channel or streaming file from the tracker; periodically = the tracker maintains lists of participating peers according to the report = from the peers about their status information. PPSP peer protocol deals with = the exchanges among peers. The peer exchanges its data availability and = neighbor peer information with other peers. With these information, it can = connect with these peers for further data downloading. =20 =20 This WG's primary tasks are to produce: 1. A =A1=B0problem statement=A1=B1 document describing the problems, = incentives, and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as common terminologies = and concepts.=20 =20 2. A =A1=B0requirements=A1=B1 document listing the requirements on the = designed PPSP protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements of = PPSP protocols or basic types of information that PPSP protocols should communicate to facilitate P2P streaming).=20 3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current P2P = streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and key issues = in best practice.=20 4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol = will define how PPSP peers advertise data availability and exchange neighbor peers. The protocol will also define the requests and responses of data chunks among PPSP peers.=20 =20 5. A proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers inform and request information from PPSP = trackers and how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.=20 =20 6. A =A1=B0usage document=A1=B1 explaining how the protocols defined = above, along with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce = complete P2P streaming systems.=20 =20 The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, = ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, = ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to = P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such = extensions and present to the respective working groups.=20 The design of PPSP has to consider security issues. The protocol = document will contain a complete description of the security issues that PPSP = should address.=20 =20 The following topics are excluded from this WG's scope: 1. Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. = using TCP or UDP, unicast or multicast, etc. However the design of PPSP = will consider how it can be combined with the transport mechanisms, including = NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP will also consider the scenario of transmission of multiple streams (layered media). This includes considering various media descriptions (e.g. data chunk description in = peer protocol) after investigating different media coding mechanisms (e.g. = SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protocol.=20 2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be = used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current charter.=20 =20 3. Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., pause, fast-forward, and rewind).=20 =20 4. Algorithms that may be different in different deployments (e.g., = chunk selection, local storage strategies).=20 =20 5. Research type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will = instead forward such questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate. Examples include cache management.=20 Goals and Milestones:=20 Apr 2010=20 Working Group Last Call for problem statement=20 Jun 2010=20 Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational document=20 Aug 2010=20 Working Group Last Call for architecture survey=20 Aug 2010=20 Working Group Last Call for requirements=20 Oct=20 2010=20 Submit architecture survey to IESG as Informational document=20 Oct 2010=20 Submit requirements to IESG as Informational document=20 Apr 2011=20 Working Group Last Call for PPSP peer protocol=20 Apr=20 2011=20 Working Group Last Call for PPSP tracker protocol=20 Aug 2011=20 Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard=20 Aug 2011=20 Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard=20 Nov 2011=20 Working Group Last Call of usage document=20 Nov 2011=20 Working Group Last Call of mobility BCP document=20 Jan 2012=20 Submit usage document to IESG as Informational document=20 Jan 2012=20 Submit mobility BCP document to IESG as Informational document=20 Apr 2012=20 Dissolve or re-charter=20 =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei=20 2009-12-26_______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp --Boundary_(ID_yuTEAK4DV5wT1R6BBOJ5iA) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Agree with = Yunfei.

Interaction = between Trackers would be optional at this stage.

 <= /span>

BR,

Ning = Zong

 <= /span>

From: = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of zhangyunfei
Sent: Monday, December = 28, 2009 10:12 AM
To: = meng.yu@zte.com.cn
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] = =B4=F0=B8=B4: ppsp revised charter proposal

 

Hi = Yu,

   Thanks for the quick reply.I agree with you = that peers and resource information exchange among trackers can broaden the = audience scope.But I think this can be placed in a second priority = currently.

   As mentioned in the problem statement draft, = PPSP is the necessary component of a p2p streaming system, but not the whole = part of a p2p streaming system.With highest priorty, PPSP need to solve the = problem of defining the basic message interaction between trackers and peers, as = well as among peers. Also this is a direct reaction for the suggestions in the = BOF and in the mailing list to narrow down the scope.

   I think we may turn to consider the point you mentioned once we finish the basic protocol.Thanks again for the = suggestion.

 

BR

Yunfei

 

zhangyunfei

2009-12-28<= font size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5>

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 08:54:17

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA zhangyunfei

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal

 


Hi,

Should the interface protocol between = trackers be nessary and covered in PPSP?

To my understanding, peers and resource information can be exchanged through this interface so that streaming = could be shared in a much wider extent.

B.R.

Merry Christmas!


Yu Meng



"zhangyunfei" = <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: =  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =

2009-12-26 16:52

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB

"ppsp@ietf.org"= ; <ppsp@ietf.org> =

=B3=AD=CB=CD

 

=D6=F7=CC=E2

[ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal

 

 

 




 Dear all, =

   The latest version of PPSP charter is attached.Welcome to comment on this.I guess many of you guys are = enjoying the Christmas holiday.Merry X'mas and happy new year!Wish to hear your valuable = suggestions in the beginning of 2010.:)

   Hope PPSP can have a great development = in the new year with all of your participation and contribution. =

The main modifications are: =

1)Para 2: =

a)wish to make it better understood about what the = tracker protocol and the peer protocol differ in and reply the BOF comments that = the two protocols may be a single one;

b)Add the NAT issue raised in the BOF; =

2)Para3:

a) Para3-bullet = 4,adding the gossip communication in peer protocol as discussed in the mailing = list;

b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as suggested by Lars that optional part = can be detered until we think it clearer; =

3)Para4, adding LEDBAT as reference raised in the = BOF.

4)Para5,deleting privay raised in the BOF. =

5)Para6: =

a)bullet1:Adding the description of considering the NAT traversal = and the multiple stream senario as discussed in the BOF and mailing = list.

BR

Yunfei

****************************************************= *********************
Description of PPSP Working Group:
The Peer-to-Peer = (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is chartered to develop = standard signaling protocols (called PPSP protocols) for multiple types of = entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, content distribution network nodes, = and/or other edge devices) to participate in P2P streaming systems in both = fixed and mobile Internet.

There are two kinds of components in PPSP protocols, i.e., = =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol =A8C = a signaling protocol between =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1, and the = PPSP peer protocol =A8C a signaling protocol among =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. The two protocols ensure = peers to get streaming data within certain time constraints. PPSP tracker protocol = deals with the initial and periodical exchanges between tracker and peers: = initially the peers contact the tracker to report their static information (like IP = address, NAT types and other useful things) and get a list of peers for a = specific channel or streaming file from the tracker; periodically the tracker = maintains lists of participating peers according to the report from the peers = about their status information. PPSP peer protocol deals with the exchanges among = peers. The peer exchanges its data availability and neighbor peer information = with other peers. With these information, it can connect with these peers for further data downloading.  
 
This WG's primary = tasks are to produce:
1. A =A1=B0problem statement=A1=B1 document describing the problems, = incentives, and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as common terminologies = and concepts.
 
2. A = =A1=B0requirements=A1=B1 document listing the requirements on the designed PPSP protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements of PPSP protocols or basic = types of information that PPSP protocols should communicate to facilitate P2P streaming).

3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current = P2P streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and = key issues in best practice.

4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol = will define how PPSP peers advertise data availability and exchange neighbor = peers. The protocol will also define the requests and responses of data chunks = among PPSP peers.
 
5. A proposed = standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP = peers inform and request information from PPSP trackers and how PPSP trackers = reply to the requests.
 
6. A =A1=B0usage = document=A1=B1 explaining how the protocols defined above, along with existing IETF = protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce complete P2P streaming = systems.
 

The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, = ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, = ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to = P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such = extensions and present to the respective working groups.

The design of PPSP has to consider security issues. The protocol = document will contain a complete description of the security issues that PPSP should = address.
 
The following = topics are excluded from this WG's scope:
1. Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. = using TCP or UDP, unicast or multicast, etc. However the  design  of =  PPSP  will  consider how it can be combined with the transport = mechanisms, including NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP will also consider = the scenario of transmission of multiple streams  (layered =  media).  This includes considering various media descriptions (e.g. data chunk = description in peer protocol) after investigating different media coding mechanisms = (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protocol.

2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be = used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current = charter.
 
3. Play-out = mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., pause, fast-forward, and = rewind).
 
4. Algorithms that = may be different in different deployments (e.g., chunk selection, local storage strategies).
 
5. Research type = questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will instead forward such questions to = the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate. Examples include cache = management.
Goals and Milestones: =

Apr 2010

Working Group Last Call for problem statement =

Jun 2010

Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational document =

Aug 2010

Working Group Last Call for architecture survey =

Aug 2010

Working Group Last Call for requirements =

Oct
2010 =

Submit architecture survey to IESG as Informational = document =

Oct 2010

Submit requirements to IESG as Informational document =

Apr 2011

Working Group Last Call for PPSP peer protocol =

Apr
2011 =

Working Group Last Call for PPSP tracker protocol =

Aug 2011

Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard =

Aug 2011

Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard =

Nov 2011

Working Group Last Call of usage document =

Nov 2011

Working Group Last Call of mobility BCP document =

Jan 2012

Submit usage document to IESG as Informational document =

Jan 2012

Submit mobility BCP document to IESG as Informational = document =

Apr 2012

Dissolve or re-charter


 


zhangyunfei
2009-12-26______________________________________________= _
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -94.093 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-94.093 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.542, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_56=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M-ZbUOIeI4qL for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:54:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx5.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1B013A659B for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.30.17.99] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 11164790912505; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:22:07 +0800 (CST) Received: from [192.168.168.1] by [192.168.168.15] with StormMail ESMTP id 78921.2094849801; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:54:07 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse2.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id nBS2s12I031083; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:54:01 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from li.lichun1@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <200912281013539841223@chinamobile.com> To: "zhangyunfei" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 Message-ID: From: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:53:48 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at 2009-12-28 10:53:54, Serialize complete at 2009-12-28 10:53:54 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00100B714825769A_=" X-MAIL: mse2.zte.com.cn nBS2s12I031083 Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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cDtvZiZuYnNwO3RoZSZuYnNwO2luZGl2aWR1YWwmbmJzcDtzZW5kZXIuDQpUaGlzJm5ic3A7bWVz c2FnZSZuYnNwO2hhcyZuYnNwO2JlZW4mbmJzcDtzY2FubmVkJm5ic3A7Zm9yJm5ic3A7dmlydXNl cyZuYnNwO2FuZCZuYnNwO1NwYW0mbmJzcDtieSZuYnNwO1pURSZuYnNwO0FudGktU3BhbSZuYnNw O3N5c3RlbS4NCjwvcHJlPg== --=_alternative 00100B714825769A_=-- From guyingjie@huawei.com Sun Dec 27 21:53:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED003A67F8 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 21:53:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.751 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.089, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_56=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l-yirczyOths for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 21:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80093A6452 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 21:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KVC001YMLO4P7@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:52:52 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KVC006S8LO43G@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:52:52 +0800 (CST) Received: from g00107907 ([10.164.12.64]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KVC00681LO2KM@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:52:52 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:52:50 +0800 From: "Y.J. Gu" In-reply-to: To: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn, 'zhangyunfei' Message-id: <004d01ca8781$fdb92260$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_zCVofMULG82ocUq+NBg2Ow)" Thread-index: AcqHaRIxQS/M2xOhSCeO/xeq0lhWKAAGEMTQ Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 05:53:24 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_zCVofMULG82ocUq+NBg2Ow) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Yes. And I' m afraid that 'neighbor peer' is not a suitable expression = in the system we are talking about. 'Neighbor peer' works in Routing = Table. =20 =20 Regards Yingjie Gu =20 _____ =20 From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:54 AM To: zhangyunfei Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal The charter says "exchange neighbor peers". I think the peer list may include peers other than neighbors. Peers can also exchange neighbors of neighbors and non-neighbor peers known from tracker.=20 BR,=20 Lichun "zhangyunfei" =20 2009-12-28 10:13=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB "li.lichun1@zte.com.cn" =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD "ppsp@ietf.org" =20 =D6=F7=CC=E2 Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal =09 Yes,you are right,Lichun.=20 As suggested in the BOF and mailing list,peer gossip(including exchange = of peer list)can make peers know more peers and alleviate the burden of the tracker.=20 =20 BR=20 Yunfei=20 =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei=20 2009-12-28=20 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 09:36:31=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei=20 =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal=20 =20 Hi, yunfei.=20 Peers can exchange peer lists, right?=20 Best regards, Lichun Li "zhangyunfei" =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 2009-12-26 16:52=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB "ppsp@ietf.org" =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD =D6=F7=CC=E2 [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal =09 Dear all,=20 The latest version of PPSP charter is attached.Welcome to comment on this.I guess many of you guys are enjoying the Christmas holiday.Merry = X'mas and happy new year!Wish to hear your valuable suggestions in the = beginning of 2010.:)=20 Hope PPSP can have a great development in the new year with all of = your participation and contribution.=20 The main modifications are:=20 1)Para 2:=20 a)wish to make it better understood about what the tracker protocol and = the peer protocol differ in and reply the BOF comments that the two = protocols may be a single one;=20 b)Add the NAT issue raised in the BOF;=20 2)Para3:=20 a) Para3-bullet 4,adding the gossip communication in peer protocol as discussed in the mailing list;=20 b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as suggested by Lars that optional part can be detered until we think it clearer;=20 3)Para4, adding LEDBAT as reference raised in the BOF.=20 4)Para5,deleting privay raised in the BOF.=20 5)Para6:=20 a)bullet1:Adding the description of considering the NAT traversal and = the multiple stream senario as discussed in the BOF and mailing list.=20 BR=20 Yunfei=20 *************************************************************************= =20 Description of PPSP Working Group:=20 The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP = protocols) for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, = content distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate in = P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.=20 There are two kinds of components in PPSP protocols, i.e., = =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol =A8C = a signaling protocol between =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1, and the = PPSP peer protocol =A8C a signaling protocol among =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. The two protocols ensure = peers to get streaming data within certain time constraints. PPSP tracker protocol = deals with the initial and periodical exchanges between tracker and peers: initially the peers contact the tracker to report their static = information (like IP address, NAT types and other useful things) and get a list of = peers for a specific channel or streaming file from the tracker; periodically = the tracker maintains lists of participating peers according to the report = from the peers about their status information. PPSP peer protocol deals with = the exchanges among peers. The peer exchanges its data availability and = neighbor peer information with other peers. With these information, it can = connect with these peers for further data downloading. =20 =20 This WG's primary tasks are to produce: 1. A =A1=B0problem statement=A1=B1 document describing the problems, = incentives, and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as common terminologies = and concepts.=20 =20 2. A =A1=B0requirements=A1=B1 document listing the requirements on the = designed PPSP protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements of = PPSP protocols or basic types of information that PPSP protocols should communicate to facilitate P2P streaming).=20 3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current P2P = streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and key issues = in best practice.=20 4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol = will define how PPSP peers advertise data availability and exchange neighbor peers. The protocol will also define the requests and responses of data chunks among PPSP peers.=20 =20 5. A proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers inform and request information from PPSP = trackers and how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.=20 =20 6. A =A1=B0usage document=A1=B1 explaining how the protocols defined = above, along with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce = complete P2P streaming systems.=20 =20 The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, = ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, = ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to = P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such = extensions and present to the respective working groups.=20 The design of PPSP has to consider security issues. The protocol = document will contain a complete description of the security issues that PPSP = should address.=20 =20 The following topics are excluded from this WG's scope: 1. Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. = using TCP or UDP, unicast or multicast, etc. However the design of PPSP = will consider how it can be combined with the transport mechanisms, including = NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP will also consider the scenario of transmission of multiple streams (layered media). This includes considering various media descriptions (e.g. data chunk description in = peer protocol) after investigating different media coding mechanisms (e.g. = SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protocol.=20 2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be = used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current charter.=20 =20 3. Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., pause, fast-forward, and rewind).=20 =20 4. Algorithms that may be different in different deployments (e.g., = chunk selection, local storage strategies).=20 =20 5. Research type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will = instead forward such questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate. Examples include cache management.=20 Goals and Milestones:=20 Apr 2010 Working Group Last Call for problem statement=20 Jun 2010 Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational document=20 Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call for architecture survey=20 Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call for requirements=20 Oct=20 2010 Submit architecture survey to IESG as Informational document=20 Oct 2010 Submit requirements to IESG as Informational document=20 Apr 2011 Working Group Last Call for PPSP peer protocol=20 Apr=20 2011 Working Group Last Call for PPSP tracker protocol=20 Aug 2011 Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard=20 Aug 2011 Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard=20 Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of usage document=20 Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of mobility BCP document=20 Jan 2012 Submit usage document to IESG as Informational document=20 Jan 2012 Submit mobility BCP document to IESG as Informational document=20 Apr 2012 Dissolve or re-charter=20 =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei=20 2009-12-26_______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail = is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy = and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to = others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of = the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system. -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail = is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy = and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to = others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of = the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system. --Boundary_(ID_zCVofMULG82ocUq+NBg2Ow) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Yes. And I' m = afraid that=20 'neighbor peer' is not a suitable expression in the system we are = talking=20 about.  'Neighbor peer' works  in Routing = Table.
 
 

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 li.lichun1@zte.com.cn
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 = 10:54=20 AM
To: zhangyunfei
Cc: = ppsp@ietf.org
Subject:=20 Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal


The charter says = "exchange neighbor peers". I think the peer list may include peers other than = neighbors. Peers=20 can also exchange neighbors of neighbors and non-neighbor peers known = from=20 tracker.


BR,
Lichun



"zhangyunfei"=20 <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>

2009-12-28 10:13

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
"li.lichun1@zte.com.cn" = <li.lichun1@zte.com.cn>=20
=B3=AD=CB=CD
"ppsp@ietf.org"=20 <ppsp@ietf.org>=20
=D6=F7=CC=E2
Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp = revised=20 charter proposal

=




Yes,you are right,Lichun. =
As suggested in the BOF and = mailing list,peer=20 gossip(including exchange of peer list)can make peers know more peers = and=20 alleviate the burden of the tracker.
 
BR=20
Yunfei
 

zhangyunfei =
2009-12-28

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA = li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 = 09:36:31=20
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA = zhangyunfei
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org; = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA re: [ppsp] = ppsp revised charter=20 proposal
  =

Hi, yunfei.=20
Peers can exchange peer = lists,=20 right?


Best regards,
Lichun Li
"zhangyunfei"=20 <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:=20  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org

2009-12-26 16:52


=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
"ppsp@ietf.org"=20 <ppsp@ietf.org>
=B3=AD=CB=CD
=D6=F7=CC=E2
[ppsp] ppsp revised = charter=20 proposal







Dear all,

   The latest version of = PPSP charter=20 is attached.Welcome to comment on this.I guess many of you guys are = enjoying=20 the Christmas holiday.Merry X'mas and happy new year!Wish to hear your = valuable suggestions in the beginning of 2010.:)

   Hope PPSP can have a = great=20 development in the new year with all of your participation and = contribution.=20

The main modifications are:

1)Para 2:

a)wish to make it better understood = about what=20 the tracker protocol and the peer protocol differ in and reply the BOF = comments that the two protocols may be a single one;

b)Add the NAT issue raised in the = BOF;

2)Para3:

a) Para3-bullet=20 4,adding the gossip communication in peer protocol as discussed in the = mailing=20 list;

b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as suggested = by Lars that=20 optional part can be detered until we think it clearer;

3)Para4, adding LEDBAT as reference = raised in the=20 BOF.

4)Para5,deleting privay raised in the=20 BOF.

5)Para6:

a)bullet1:Adding the description of = considering the=20 NAT traversal and the multiple stream senario as discussed in the BOF = and=20 mailing list.

BR

Yunfei

****************************************************************= *********=20
Description of PPSP = Working=20 Group:
The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group = (PPSP WG)=20 is chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP = protocols)=20 for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, = content=20 distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate = in P2P=20 streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.

There are = two kinds of=20 components in PPSP protocols, i.e., =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and = =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. PPSP protocols=20 include the PPSP tracker protocol =A8C a signaling protocol between = =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1=20 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1, and the PPSP peer protocol =A8C a signaling = protocol among =A1=B0peers=A1=B1.=20 The two protocols ensure peers to get streaming data within certain = time=20 constraints. PPSP tracker protocol deals with the initial and = periodical=20 exchanges between tracker and peers: initially the peers contact the = tracker=20 to report their static information (like IP address, NAT types and = other=20 useful things) and get a list of peers for a specific channel or = streaming=20 file from the tracker; periodically the tracker maintains lists of=20 participating peers according to the report from the peers about their = status=20 information. PPSP peer protocol deals with the exchanges among peers. = The peer=20 exchanges its data availability and neighbor peer information with = other=20 peers. With these information, it can connect with these peers for = further=20 data downloading.  =20
 
This WG's = primary tasks=20 are to produce:
1. A =A1=B0problem statement=A1=B1 document = describing the problems,=20 incentives, and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as = common=20 terminologies and concepts. =
 
2. A = =A1=B0requirements=A1=B1=20 document listing the requirements on the designed PPSP protocols = (e.g.,=20 general functionality and performance requirements of PPSP protocols = or basic=20 types of information that PPSP protocols should communicate to = facilitate P2P=20 streaming).

3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the = current=20 P2P streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P = streaming, and=20 key issues in best practice. =

4. A proposed standard defining = the PPSP=20 peer protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers advertise data = availability and exchange neighbor peers. The protocol will also = define the=20 requests and responses of data chunks among PPSP peers.
 
5. A=20 proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol = will=20 define how PPSP peers inform and request information from PPSP = trackers and=20 how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.=20
 
6. A = =A1=B0usage document=A1=B1=20 explaining how the protocols defined above, along with existing IETF=20 protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can inter-operate; and how = they may=20 be integrated together to produce complete P2P streaming = systems.
 

The=20 work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close=20 participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, = ALTO,LEDBAT=20 and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, = ALTO,=20 LEDBAT and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to = P2PSIP,=20 ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such = extensions=20 and present to the respective working groups.=20

The design of PPSP = has to=20 consider security issues. The protocol document will contain a = complete=20 description of the security issues that PPSP should = address.
 
The=20 following topics are excluded from this WG's scope:
1. Transport = mechanisms=20 for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. using TCP or UDP, unicast = or=20 multicast, etc. However the  design  of  PPSP =  will=20  consider how it can be combined with the transport mechanisms, = including=20 NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP will also consider the = scenario of=20 transmission of multiple streams  (layered  media). =  This=20 includes considering various media descriptions (e.g. data chunk = description=20 in peer protocol) after investigating different media coding = mechanisms (e.g.=20 SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protocol.

2. Network=20 coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be used in P2P=20 streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current = charter.
 
3.=20 Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., pause, = fast-forward,=20 and rewind).
 
4. Algorithms that may be different = in different=20 deployments (e.g., chunk selection, local storage = strategies).
 
5.=20 Research type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will instead = forward=20 such questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate. Examples = include=20 cache management.
Goals and = Milestones:

Apr = 2010 Working = Group Last Call=20 for problem statement =
Jun 2010 Submit problem statement = to IESG as=20 Informational document =
Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call = for=20 architecture survey =
Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call = for=20 requirements
Oct
2010 		Submit architecture survey = to IESG=20 as Informational document
Oct 2010 Submit requirements to = IESG as=20 Informational document =
Apr 2011 Working Group Last Call = for PPSP=20 peer protocol
Apr
2011 		Working Group Last Call = for PPSP=20 tracker protocol
Aug 2011 Submit PPSP peer protocol = to IESG as=20 Proposed Standard =
Aug 2011 Submit PPSP tracker = protocol to IESG=20 as Proposed Standard =
Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of = usage=20 document
Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of = mobility=20 BCP document
Jan 2012 Submit usage document to = IESG as=20 Informational document =
Jan 2012 Submit mobility BCP = document to IESG=20 as Informational document
Apr 2012 Dissolve or re-charter=20


 =20


zhangyunfei
2009-12-26_______________________________________________
ppsp = mailing=20 = list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

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ZTE = Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is = solely=20 property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is=20 confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy = and are=20 not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to=20 others.
This email and any files transmitted with it are = confidential and=20 intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they = are=20 addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the=20 originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are = those of=20 the individual sender.
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MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cWvDo--1bTCH; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:50:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx6.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [63.218.89.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B0A63A67A3; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:50:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.30.17.99] by mx6.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 91101821921442; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:25:29 +0800 (CST) Received: from [192.168.168.1] by [192.168.168.15] with StormMail ESMTP id 78921.3869924547; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:49:39 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse2.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id nBS6nbee011808; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:49:37 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from meng.yu@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <200912281423567816417@chinamobile.com> To: "zhangyunfei" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.4 June 01, 2004 Message-ID: From: meng.yu@zte.com.cn Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:49:22 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at 2009-12-28 14:49:25, Serialize complete at 2009-12-28 14:49:25 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00257C854825769A_=" X-MAIL: mse2.zte.com.cn nBS6nbee011808 Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" , ppsp-bounces@ietf.org, liuhy Subject: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6ICBwcHNwIHJldmlzZWQgY2hhcnRlciBw?= =?gb2312?b?cm9wb3NhbA==?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:50:07 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00257C854825769A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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X19fX19fXzxicj4NCnBwc3AgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PGJyPg0KcHBzcEBpZXRmLm9yZzxicj4NCmh0 dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vcHBzcDxicj4NCjwvdHQ+PC9mb250 Pg0KPGJyPg0K --=_alternative 00257C854825769A_=-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Sun Dec 27 23:18:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 329C03A67EA for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:18:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -87.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.494, BAYES_50=0.001, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_197=0.175, CN_BODY_35=0.339, CN_BODY_509=0.029, CN_BODY_796=0.14, CN_BODY_832=0.004, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_56=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pmeo-iNHgDME for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE4B3A67A5 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:18:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.2.2.23]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009122815280703-19358 ; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:28:07 +0800 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:18:08 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "liuhy @ uusee" , "meng.yu@zte.com.cn" References: <200912281508013593716@uusee.com> Message-ID: <200912281518082033241@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-28 15:28:07, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-28 15:18:17, Serialize complete at 2009-12-28 15:18:17 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon247261157270_=====" Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6ICBwcHNwIHJldmlzZWQgY2hhcnRlciBw?= =?gb2312?b?cm9wb3NhbA==?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:18:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon247261157270_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" VGhhbmtzIEhhcm9sZCBmb3IgeW91ciBjbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9uIGZyb20gVVVTZWUncyBleHBlcmll 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MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wRUe7DBRdpQh for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFCE93A6810 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KVC0052OQ2WLH@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:28:09 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KVC0048OQ2W9V@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:28:08 +0800 (CST) Received: from z63316 ([10.164.12.81]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KVC00AVLQ2SB7@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:28:07 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:28:04 +0800 From: Ning Zong In-reply-to: <200912281518082033241@chinamobile.com> To: 'zhangyunfei' , "'liuhy @ uusee'" , meng.yu@zte.com.cn Message-id: <006501ca878f$4ba1f9e0$510ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_0bkwa+zES4ongqNalzaDNA)" Thread-index: AcqHjfmHQ95wCzWPQ4yEdkBiivWeFgAAMGog Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6ICBwcHNwIHJldmlzZWQgY2hhcnRlciBw?= =?gb2312?b?cm9wb3NhbA==?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:28:36 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_0bkwa+zES4ongqNalzaDNA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable IMO, we can use peer list as general terms for both tracker and peer communications, - bearing mind that tracker and peer can both have their local policy for sending out which peers, such as =A1=B0useful = peers=A1=B1, =A1=B0recommended peers=A1=B1, etc. Anyway, I also agree that =A1=B0neighbor peers=A1=B1 is a little = confusing. =20 Thanks! =20 BR, Ning Zong =20 _____ =20 From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of zhangyunfei Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:18 PM To: liuhy @ uusee; meng.yu@zte.com.cn Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: ppsp revised charter proposal =20 Thanks Harold for your clarification from UUSee's experience. One more question:People may be confused about the "peer list" in the tracker protocol and the "peer list"in the peer protocol since they are = same literally. We may express it clearer about this. Any good suggestions? BR Yunfei _____ =20 zhangyunfei 2009-12-28 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA liuhy @ uusee =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 15:17:58 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn; zhangyunfei =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn; ppsp@ietf.org; = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter = proposal =20 Agree. =20 "Peer list" is much clear than "neighbor peers". =20 Actually, peers usually exchanges the list of "useful list". Since = connected peers either acquir resources or provide resources to each other. So, = peers can do some filter work locally. =20 =20 2009-12-28=20 _____ =20 =C1=F5=BB=B3=D3=EE / Harold Liu =D3=C6=CA=D3=CD=F8 CTO =B1=B1=BE=A9=D3=C6=CA=D3=BB=A5=B6=AF=BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE =B5=D8=D6=B7=A3=BA=B1=B1=BE=A9=CA=D0=B6=AB=B3=C7=C7=F8=B6=AB=D6=B1=C3=C5=B1= =B1=D0=A1=BD=D6=C7=E0=C1=FA=BA=FA=CD=AC1=BA=C5=B8=E8=BB=AA=B4=F3=CF=C39=B2= =E3 =D3=CA=B1=E0=A3=BA100007 =B5=E7=BB=B0=A3=BA+86-10-84186689 =CA=D6=BB=FA=A3=BA13901143864 =D3=CA=BC=FE=A3=BA liuhy@uusee.com =CD=F8=D6=B7=A3=BA www.uusee.com=20 =20 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 14:49:35=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei=20 =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn; liuhy; ppsp@ietf.org; = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter = proposal=20 Yes, it may arouse some problems. If PPSP want to do that, some lite security mechanism maybe needed.=20 Besides that, should we change "exchange neighbor peers" to "exchange = peer lists information (owning some resource)" so as to avoid the confusion = of 'neighbor'?=20 "zhangyunfei" =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 2009-12-28 14:23=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB "li.lichun1@zte.com.cn" =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD "ppsp@ietf.org" , liuhy =20 =D6=F7=CC=E2 Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal =20 =20 =20 Thanks Lichun.=20 According to my understanding,peers exchange the neigbor peers information,i.e. which peer remains connected and which pieces already = have been downloaded. As for non-neigbor peers which it just receives from = the tracker, I am really not sure about the effect of such exchange because = such peers are un-confirmed.=20 Is there anybody who can tell us more about this point in practice?James?Harold?Omer?=20 Thanks!=20 =20 BR=20 Yunfei=20 =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei=20 2009-12-28=20 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 11:04:21=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei=20 =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal=20 =20 The charter says "exchange neighbor peers". I think the peer list may include peers other than neighbors. Peers can also exchange neighbors of neighbors and non-neighbor peers known from tracker.=20 BR,=20 Lichun "zhangyunfei" =20 2009-12-28 10:13=20 =20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB "li.lichun1@zte.com.cn" =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD "ppsp@ietf.org" =20 =D6=F7=CC=E2 Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal =20 =20 =20 Yes,you are right,Lichun.=20 As suggested in the BOF and mailing list,peer gossip(including exchange = of peer list)can make peers know more peers and alleviate the burden of the tracker.=20 =20 BR=20 Yunfei=20 =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei=20 2009-12-28=20 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 09:36:31=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei=20 =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal=20 =20 Hi, yunfei.=20 Peers can exchange peer lists, right?=20 Best regards, Lichun Li "zhangyunfei" =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 2009-12-26 16:52=20 =20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB "ppsp@ietf.org" =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD =20 =D6=F7=CC=E2 [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal =20 =20 Dear all,=20 The latest version of PPSP charter is attached.Welcome to comment on this.I guess many of you guys are enjoying the Christmas holiday.Merry = X'mas and happy new year!Wish to hear your valuable suggestions in the = beginning of 2010.:)=20 Hope PPSP can have a great development in the new year with all of = your participation and contribution.=20 The main modifications are:=20 1)Para 2:=20 a)wish to make it better understood about what the tracker protocol and = the peer protocol differ in and reply the BOF comments that the two = protocols may be a single one;=20 b)Add the NAT issue raised in the BOF;=20 2)Para3:=20 a) Para3-bullet 4,adding the gossip communication in peer protocol as discussed in the mailing list;=20 b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as suggested by Lars that optional part can be detered until we think it clearer;=20 3)Para4, adding LEDBAT as reference raised in the BOF.=20 4)Para5,deleting privay raised in the BOF.=20 5)Para6:=20 a)bullet1:Adding the description of considering the NAT traversal and = the multiple stream senario as discussed in the BOF and mailing list.=20 BR=20 Yunfei=20 *************************************************************************= =20 Description of PPSP Working Group:=20 The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP = protocols) for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, = content distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate in = P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.=20 There are two kinds of components in PPSP protocols, i.e., = =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol =A8C = a signaling protocol between =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1, and the = PPSP peer protocol =A8C a signaling protocol among =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. The two protocols ensure = peers to get streaming data within certain time constraints. PPSP tracker protocol = deals with the initial and periodical exchanges between tracker and peers: initially the peers contact the tracker to report their static = information (like IP address, NAT types and other useful things) and get a list of = peers for a specific channel or streaming file from the tracker; periodically = the tracker maintains lists of participating peers according to the report = from the peers about their status information. PPSP peer protocol deals with = the exchanges among peers. The peer exchanges its data availability and = neighbor peer information with other peers. With these information, it can = connect with these peers for further data downloading. =20 This WG's primary tasks are to produce: 1. A =A1=B0problem statement=A1=B1 document describing the problems, = incentives, and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as common terminologies = and concepts.=20 2. A =A1=B0requirements=A1=B1 document listing the requirements on the = designed PPSP protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements of = PPSP protocols or basic types of information that PPSP protocols should communicate to facilitate P2P streaming).=20 3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current P2P = streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and key issues = in best practice.=20 4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol = will define how PPSP peers advertise data availability and exchange neighbor peers. The protocol will also define the requests and responses of data chunks among PPSP peers.=20 5. A proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers inform and request information from PPSP = trackers and how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.=20 6. A =A1=B0usage document=A1=B1 explaining how the protocols defined = above, along with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce = complete P2P streaming systems.=20 The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, = ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, = ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to = P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such = extensions and present to the respective working groups.=20 The design of PPSP has to consider security issues. The protocol = document will contain a complete description of the security issues that PPSP = should address.=20 The following topics are excluded from this WG's scope: 1. Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. = using TCP or UDP, unicast or multicast, etc. However the design of PPSP = will consider how it can be combined with the transport mechanisms, including = NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP will also consider the scenario of transmission of multiple streams (layered media). This includes considering various media descriptions (e.g. data chunk description in = peer protocol) after investigating different media coding mechanisms (e.g. = SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the protocol.=20 2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be = used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current charter.=20 3. Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., pause, fast-forward, and rewind).=20 4. Algorithms that may be different in different deployments (e.g., = chunk selection, local storage strategies).=20 5. Research type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will = instead forward such questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate. Examples include cache management.=20 Goals and Milestones:=20 Apr 2010=20 Working Group Last Call for problem statement=20 Jun 2010=20 Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational document=20 Aug 2010=20 Working Group Last Call for architecture survey=20 Aug 2010=20 Working Group Last Call for requirements=20 Oct=20 2010=20 Submit architecture survey to IESG as Informational document=20 Oct 2010=20 Submit requirements to IESG as Informational document=20 Apr 2011=20 Working Group Last Call for PPSP peer protocol=20 Apr=20 2011=20 Working Group Last Call for PPSP tracker protocol=20 Aug 2011=20 Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard=20 Aug 2011=20 Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard=20 Nov 2011=20 Working Group Last Call of usage document=20 Nov 2011=20 Working Group Last Call of mobility BCP document=20 Jan 2012=20 Submit usage document to IESG as Informational document=20 Jan 2012=20 Submit mobility BCP document to IESG as Informational document=20 Apr 2012=20 Dissolve or re-charter=20 =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei=20 2009-12-26_______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail = is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy = and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to = others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of = the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system. -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail = is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy = and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to = others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of = the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system. _______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp --Boundary_(ID_0bkwa+zES4ongqNalzaDNA) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

IMO, we can use = peer list as general terms for both tracker and peer communications, - bearing mind = that tracker and peer can both have their local policy for sending out which = peers, such as =A1=B0useful peers=A1=B1, =A1=B0recommended peers=A1=B1, = etc.

Anyway, I also = agree that =A1=B0neighbor peers=A1=B1 is a little confusing.

 <= /span>

Thanks!=

 <= /span>

BR,

Ning = Zong

 <= /span>

From: = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of zhangyunfei
Sent: Monday, December = 28, 2009 3:18 PM
To: liuhy @ uusee; meng.yu@zte.com.cn
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] = =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: ppsp revised charter proposal

 

Thanks Harold for your clarification from UUSee's = experience.

One more question:People may be confused about the = "peer list" in the tracker protocol and the "peer list"in the = peer protocol since they are same literally. We may express it clearer about = this. Any good suggestions?

BR

Yunfei

zhangyunfei

2009-12-28<= font size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5>

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA liuhy @ uusee

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 15:17:58

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn; zhangyunfei

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn; ppsp@ietf.org; = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised = charter proposal

 

Agree.<= /p>

 

"Peer list" is much clear than "neighbor peers".<= /p>

 

Actually, peers usually exchanges the list of "useful list". Since connected peers either acquir resources or provide = resources to each other. So, peers can do some filter work = locally.<= /p>

 

 

2009-12-28<= font size=3D2 color=3Dsilver face=3DVerdana> <= /p>

=C1=F5=BB=B3=D3=EE = /  Harold Liu
=D3=C6=CA=D3=CD=F8<= font size=3D2 color=3D"#a6a6a6" face=3DArial> CTO
=B1=B1=BE=A9=D3=C6=CA=D3=BB=A5=B6= =AF=BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE
=B5=D8=D6=B7=A3=BA=B1=B1=BE=A9=CA= =D0=B6=AB=B3=C7=C7=F8=B6=AB=D6=B1=C3=C5=B1=B1=D0=A1=BD=D6=C7=E0=C1=FA=BA=FA= =CD=AC1=BA=C5=B8= =E8=BB=AA=B4=F3=CF=C39=B2=E3<= /span>
=D3=CA=B1=E0=A3=BA<= font size=3D2 color=3D"#a6a6a6" face=3DArial>100007
=B5=E7=BB=B0=A3=BA<= font size=3D2 color=3D"#a6a6a6" face=3DArial>+86-10-84186689
=CA=D6=BB=FA=A3=BA<= font size=3D2 color=3D"#a6a6a6" face=3DArial>13901143864

=D3=CA=BC=FE=A3=BAliuhy@uusee.com
=CD=F8=D6=B7=A3=BA<= font size=3D2 color=3D"#a6a6a6" face=3DArial>www.uusee.com =

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28  14:49:35 =

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA zhangyunfei

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn; liuhy; ppsp@ietf.org; = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal


Yes, it may arouse some problems. If PPSP = want to do that, some lite security mechanism maybe = needed.

Besides that, should we change = "exchange neighbor peers" to "exchange peer lists information (owning some resource)" so as = to avoid the confusion of 'neighbor'?


"zhangyunfei" = <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: =  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =

2009-12-28 14:23

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB

"li.lichun1@zte.com= .cn" <li.lichun1@zte.com.cn> =

=B3=AD=CB=CD

"ppsp@ietf.org"= ; <ppsp@ietf.org>, liuhy = <liuhy@uusee.com> =

=D6=F7=CC=E2

Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal

 

 

 




Thanks = Lichun.
According to my = understanding,peers exchange the neigbor peers information,i.e. which peer remains connected = and which pieces already have been downloaded. As for non-neigbor peers = which it just receives from the tracker, I am really not sure about the effect of = such exchange because such peers are un-confirmed.
Is there anybody who can = tell us more about this point in practice?James?Harold?Omer?
Thanks!
 
BR
Yunfei
  =


zhangyunfei
2009-12-28


=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA= = li.lichun1@zte.com.cn
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 = 11:04:21
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA= zhangyunfei =
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: re: = [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal
 

The charter says "exchange neighbor peers". I think the = peer list may include peers other than neighbors. Peers can also exchange = neighbors of neighbors and non-neighbor peers known from tracker.


BR,
Lichun

"zhangyunfei" = <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>

2009-12-28 10:13

 

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB

"li.lichun1@zte.com= .cn" <li.lichun1@zte.com.cn> =

=B3=AD=CB=CD

"ppsp@ietf.org"= ; <ppsp@ietf.org> =

=D6=F7=CC=E2

Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal

 

 

 





Yes,you are right,Lichun.
As suggested in the BOF and mailing list,peer gossip(including exchange = of peer list)can make peers know more peers and alleviate the burden of the = tracker.
 
BR
Yunfei
 


zhangyunfei
2009-12-28 =


=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA= 2009-12-28 09:36:31
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal
 

Hi, yunfei.
Peers can exchange peer lists, right? =


Best regards,
Lichun Li<= /p>

"zhangyunfei" = <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: =  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org

2009-12-26 16:52

 

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB

"ppsp@ietf.org"= ; <ppsp@ietf.org> =

=B3=AD=CB=CD

 

=D6=F7=CC=E2

[ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal



 

 






Dear all,

   The latest version of PPSP charter is attached.Welcome to comment on this.I guess many of you guys are = enjoying the Christmas holiday.Merry X'mas and happy new year!Wish to hear your = valuable suggestions in the beginning of 2010.:)

   Hope PPSP can have a great development = in the new year with all of your participation and contribution. =

The main modifications are: =

1)Para 2: =

a)wish to make it better understood about what the = tracker protocol and the peer protocol differ in and reply the BOF comments that = the two protocols may be a single one;

b)Add the NAT issue raised in the BOF; =

2)Para3:

a) Para3-bullet = 4,adding the gossip communication in peer protocol as discussed in the mailing = list;

b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as suggested by Lars that optional part = can be detered until we think it clearer; =

3)Para4, adding LEDBAT as reference raised in the = BOF.

4)Para5,deleting privay raised in the BOF. =

5)Para6: =

a)bullet1:Adding the description of considering the NAT traversal = and the multiple stream senario as discussed in the BOF and mailing = list.

BR

Yunfei

****************************************************= *********************
Description of PPSP Working Group: =
The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is = chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP protocols) for = multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, content = distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate in P2P = streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.

There are two kinds of components in PPSP protocols, i.e., = =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol =A8C = a signaling protocol between =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1, and the = PPSP peer protocol =A8C a signaling protocol among =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. The two protocols ensure = peers to get streaming data within certain time constraints. PPSP tracker protocol = deals with the initial and periodical exchanges between tracker and peers: = initially the peers contact the tracker to report their static information (like = IP address, NAT types and other useful things) and get a list of peers for = a specific channel or streaming file from the tracker; periodically the = tracker maintains lists of participating peers according to the report from the = peers about their status information. PPSP peer protocol deals with the = exchanges among peers. The peer exchanges its data availability and neighbor peer information with other peers. With these information, it can connect = with these peers for further data downloading.  

This WG's primary tasks are to produce:
1. A =A1=B0problem statement=A1=B1 document describing the problems, = incentives, and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as common terminologies = and concepts.

2. A =A1=B0requirements=A1=B1 document listing the requirements on the = designed PPSP protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements of = PPSP protocols or basic types of information that PPSP protocols should = communicate to facilitate P2P streaming). =

3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current = P2P streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and = key issues in best practice. =

4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol = will define how PPSP peers advertise data availability and exchange neighbor = peers. The protocol will also define the requests and responses of data chunks = among PPSP peers.

5. A proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol = will define how PPSP peers inform and request information from PPSP trackers = and how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.

6. A =A1=B0usage document=A1=B1 explaining how the protocols defined = above, along with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can = inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce complete P2P streaming = systems.


The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, = ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, = ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to = P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such = extensions and present to the respective working groups.

The design of PPSP has to consider security issues. The protocol = document will contain a complete description of the security issues that PPSP should = address.

The following topics are excluded from this WG's scope:
1. Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. = using TCP or UDP, unicast or multicast, etc. However the  design  of =  PPSP  will  consider how it can be combined with the transport = mechanisms, including NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP will also consider = the scenario of transmission of multiple streams  (layered =  media).  This includes considering various media descriptions (e.g. data = chunk description in peer protocol) after investigating different media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the = protocol.

2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be = used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current = charter.

3. Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., pause, = fast-forward, and rewind).

4. Algorithms that may be different in different deployments (e.g., = chunk selection, local storage strategies).

5. Research type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will = instead forward such questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate. = Examples include cache management. =
Goals and Milestones: =

Apr 2010

Working Group Last Call for problem statement

Jun 2010

Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational document

Aug 2010

Working Group Last Call for architecture survey

Aug 2010

Working Group Last Call for requirements =

Oct
2010

Submit architecture survey to IESG as Informational = document

Oct 2010

Submit requirements to IESG as Informational document

Apr 2011

Working Group Last Call for PPSP peer protocol

Apr
2011

Working Group Last Call for PPSP tracker protocol

Aug 2011

Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard

Aug 2011

Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard

Nov 2011

Working Group Last Call of usage document =

Nov 2011

Working Group Last Call of mobility BCP document

Jan 2012

Submit usage document to IESG as Informational document

Jan 2012

Submit mobility BCP document to IESG as Informational = document

Apr 2012

Dissolve or re-charter




 


zhangyunfei
2009-12-26_______________________= ________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of = the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system.


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ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail = is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy = and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to = others.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of = the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system.
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp<= /p>

--Boundary_(ID_0bkwa+zES4ongqNalzaDNA)-- From lin.xiao@nsn.com Mon Dec 28 00:01:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2C43A6879 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 00:01:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.146 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-7.722, BAYES_50=0.001, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_197=0.175, CN_BODY_35=0.339, CN_BODY_509=0.029, CN_BODY_796=0.14, CN_BODY_832=0.004, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_56=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ixUILRKJHqwN for ; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 00:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3033A67EA for ; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 00:01:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nBS81F4U006970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:01:15 +0100 Received: from demuexc023.nsn-intra.net (demuexc023.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.36]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nBS81EPT028282; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:01:14 +0100 Received: from CNBEEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.192.12]) by demuexc023.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:01:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA8793.EB3F5D9A" Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:01:08 +0800 Message-ID: <5D84FDD8D5DC8646B9F73CF1EFD1BFA4010F8135@CNBEEXC007.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <200912281518082033241@chinamobile.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?W3Bwc3BdILTwuLQ6IFJlOiAgcHBzcCByZXZpc2VkIGNoYXJ0ZXIgcA==?= =?gb2312?B?cm9wb3NhbA==?= Thread-Index: AcqHjfx3kYs0nP2OSFyFYdCBBxOiIwAAVP6w References: <200912281508013593716@uusee.com> <200912281518082033241@chinamobile.com> From: "Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)" To: "ext zhangyunfei" , "liuhy @ uusee" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Dec 2009 08:01:13.0880 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECF37180:01CA8793] Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6ICBwcHNwIHJldmlzZWQgY2hhcnRlciBw?= =?gb2312?b?cm9wb3NhbA==?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:01:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA8793.EB3F5D9A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Yunfei, =20 To define the ppsp peer protocol, The charter writes: This protocol will = define how PPSP peers advertise data availability and exchange neighbor = peers. =20 I think, it means a peer is required to exchange 2 kinds of information: = the peer's won data availability,and other peers connected with the = peer who have related data. And the second information is the useful = extension to the peer list from the tracker. Right? =20 So, the sentence could be changed as: This protocol will define how PPSP = peers exchange their won data availability and enrich their peer lists = at the same time among peers. =20 However, the question is, should we give such details about which = content should be exchanged in Charter stage? Or just to simply say " = define how to exchange useful information among peers"?=20 =20 Br Xiao Lin =20 ________________________________ From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = ext zhangyunfei Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:18 PM To: liuhy @ uusee; meng.yu@zte.com.cn Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: ppsp revised charter proposal Thanks Harold for your clarification from UUSee's experience. One more question:People may be confused about the "peer list" in the = tracker protocol and the "peer list"in the peer protocol since they are = same literally. We may express it clearer about this. Any good = suggestions? BR Yunfei ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2009-12-28 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA liuhy @ uusee =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 15:17:58 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn; zhangyunfei =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn; ppsp@ietf.org; = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter = proposal =20 Agree. =20 "Peer list" is much clear than "neighbor peers". =20 Actually, peers usually exchanges the list of "useful list". Since = connected peers either acquir resources or provide resources to each = other. So, peers can do some filter work locally. =20 =20 2009-12-28=20 ________________________________ =C1=F5=BB=B3=D3=EE / Harold Liu =D3=C6=CA=D3=CD=F8 CTO =B1=B1=BE=A9=D3=C6=CA=D3=BB=A5=B6=AF=BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE =B5=D8=D6=B7=A3=BA=B1=B1=BE=A9=CA=D0=B6=AB=B3=C7=C7=F8=B6=AB=D6=B1=C3=C5=B1= =B1=D0=A1=BD=D6=C7=E0=C1=FA=BA=FA=CD=AC1=BA=C5=B8=E8=BB=AA=B4=F3=CF=C39=B2= =E3 =D3=CA=B1=E0=A3=BA100007 =B5=E7=BB=B0=A3=BA+86-10-84186689 =CA=D6=BB=FA=A3=BA13901143864 =D3=CA=BC=FE=A3=BAliuhy@uusee.com =20 =CD=F8=D6=B7=A3=BAwww.uusee.com =20 =20 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 14:49:35=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei=20 =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn; liuhy; ppsp@ietf.org; = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter = proposal=20 Yes, it may arouse some problems. If PPSP want to do that, some lite = security mechanism maybe needed.=20 Besides that, should we change "exchange neighbor peers" to "exchange = peer lists information (owning some resource)" so as to avoid the = confusion of 'neighbor'?=20 "zhangyunfei" =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 2009-12-28 14:23=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB "li.lichun1@zte.com.cn" =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD "ppsp@ietf.org" , liuhy =20 =D6=F7=CC=E2 Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal=09 =09 Thanks Lichun.=20 According to my understanding,peers exchange the neigbor peers = information,i.e. which peer remains connected and which pieces already = have been downloaded. As for non-neigbor peers which it just receives = from the tracker, I am really not sure about the effect of such exchange = because such peers are un-confirmed.=20 Is there anybody who can tell us more about this point in = practice?James?Harold?Omer?=20 Thanks!=20 =20 BR=20 Yunfei=20 =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei=20 2009-12-28=20 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 11:04:21=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei=20 =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal=20 =20 The charter says "exchange neighbor peers". I think the peer list may = include peers other than neighbors. Peers can also exchange neighbors of = neighbors and non-neighbor peers known from tracker.=20 BR,=20 Lichun "zhangyunfei" =20 2009-12-28 10:13=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB "li.lichun1@zte.com.cn" =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD "ppsp@ietf.org" =20 =D6=F7=CC=E2 Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal=09 =09 Yes,you are right,Lichun.=20 As suggested in the BOF and mailing list,peer gossip(including exchange = of peer list)can make peers know more peers and alleviate the burden of = the tracker.=20 =20 BR=20 Yunfei=20 =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei=20 2009-12-28=20 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 09:36:31=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei=20 =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal=20 =20 Hi, yunfei.=20 Peers can exchange peer lists, right?=20 Best regards, Lichun Li "zhangyunfei" =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 2009-12-26 16:52=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB "ppsp@ietf.org" =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD =D6=F7=CC=E2 [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal=09 =09 Dear all,=20 The latest version of PPSP charter is attached.Welcome to comment on = this.I guess many of you guys are enjoying the Christmas holiday.Merry = X'mas and happy new year!Wish to hear your valuable suggestions in the = beginning of 2010.:)=20 Hope PPSP can have a great development in the new year with all of = your participation and contribution.=20 The main modifications are:=20 1)Para 2:=20 a)wish to make it better understood about what the tracker protocol and = the peer protocol differ in and reply the BOF comments that the two = protocols may be a single one;=20 b)Add the NAT issue raised in the BOF;=20 2)Para3:=20 a) Para3-bullet 4,adding the gossip communication in peer protocol as = discussed in the mailing list;=20 b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as suggested by Lars that optional part can be = detered until we think it clearer;=20 3)Para4, adding LEDBAT as reference raised in the BOF.=20 4)Para5,deleting privay raised in the BOF.=20 5)Para6:=20 a)bullet1:Adding the description of considering the NAT traversal and = the multiple stream senario as discussed in the BOF and mailing list.=20 BR=20 Yunfei=20 *************************************************************************= =20 Description of PPSP Working Group:=20 The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is = chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP = protocols) for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, = caches, content distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) = to participate in P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile = Internet.=20 There are two kinds of components in PPSP protocols, i.e., = =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. PPSP protocols include the = PPSP tracker protocol =A8C a signaling protocol between = =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1=B1, and the PPSP peer protocol = =A8C a signaling protocol among =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. The two protocols = ensure peers to get streaming data within certain time constraints. PPSP = tracker protocol deals with the initial and periodical exchanges between = tracker and peers: initially the peers contact the tracker to report = their static information (like IP address, NAT types and other useful = things) and get a list of peers for a specific channel or streaming file = from the tracker; periodically the tracker maintains lists of = participating peers according to the report from the peers about their = status information. PPSP peer protocol deals with the exchanges among = peers. The peer exchanges its data availability and neighbor peer = information with other peers. With these information, it can connect = with these peers for further data downloading. =20 This WG's primary tasks are to produce: 1. A =A1=B0problem statement=A1=B1 document describing the problems, = incentives, and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as = common terminologies and concepts.=20 2. A =A1=B0requirements=A1=B1 document listing the requirements on the = designed PPSP protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance = requirements of PPSP protocols or basic types of information that PPSP = protocols should communicate to facilitate P2P streaming).=20 3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current P2P = streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and = key issues in best practice.=20 4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol = will define how PPSP peers advertise data availability and exchange = neighbor peers. The protocol will also define the requests and responses = of data chunks among PPSP peers.=20 5. A proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol = will define how PPSP peers inform and request information from PPSP = trackers and how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.=20 6. A =A1=B0usage document=A1=B1 explaining how the protocols defined = above, along with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and = RTSP, can inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to = produce complete P2P streaming systems.=20 The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close = participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, = ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify = baseline P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines = that extensions to P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will = seek to define such extensions and present to the respective working = groups.=20 The design of PPSP has to consider security issues. The protocol = document will contain a complete description of the security issues that = PPSP should address.=20 The following topics are excluded from this WG's scope: 1. Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. = using TCP or UDP, unicast or multicast, etc. However the design of = PPSP will consider how it can be combined with the transport = mechanisms, including NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP will = also consider the scenario of transmission of multiple streams (layered = media). This includes considering various media descriptions (e.g. = data chunk description in peer protocol) after investigating different = media coding mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in = the protocol.=20 2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be = used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current = charter.=20 3. Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., pause, = fast-forward, and rewind).=20 4. Algorithms that may be different in different deployments (e.g., = chunk selection, local storage strategies).=20 5. Research type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will = instead forward such questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as = appropriate. Examples include cache management.=20 Goals and Milestones:=20 Apr 2010 Working Group Last Call for problem statement=20 Jun 2010 Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational document=20 Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call for architecture survey=20 Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call for requirements=20 Oct=20 2010 Submit architecture survey to IESG as Informational document=20 Oct 2010 Submit requirements to IESG as Informational document=20 Apr 2011 Working Group Last Call for PPSP peer protocol=20 Apr=20 2011 Working Group Last Call for PPSP tracker protocol=20 Aug 2011 Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard=20 Aug 2011 Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard=20 Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of usage document=20 Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of mobility BCP document=20 Jan 2012 Submit usage document to IESG as Informational document=20 Jan 2012 Submit mobility BCP document to IESG as Informational document = Apr 2012 Dissolve or re-charter =09 =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei=20 2009-12-26_______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail = is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication = is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain = secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this = communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the = originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those = of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system. -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail = is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication = is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain = secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this = communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the = originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those = of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system. _______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA8793.EB3F5D9A Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=20 Yunfei,
 
To=20 define the ppsp peer protocol, The charter writes: This=20 protocol will define how PPSP peers advertise data availability and = exchange=20 neighbor peers.
 
I=20 think, it means a peer is required to exchange 2 kinds of=20 information:  the peer's won data availability,and other=20 peers connected with the peer who have related data. And the second = information is the useful extension to the peer list from the tracker.=20 Right?
 
So,=20 the sentence could be changed as: This protocol will define how PPSP=20 peers exchange their won data availability and enrich their peer = lists at=20 the same time among peers.
 
However, the question is, should we give such = details about=20 which content should be exchanged in Charter stage? Or just to simply = say "=20 define how to exchange useful information among peers"? =
 
Br
Xiao=20 Lin
 

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext=20 zhangyunfei
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:18 = PM
To:=20 liuhy @ uusee; meng.yu@zte.com.cn
Cc: = ppsp@ietf.org
Subject:=20 Re: [ppsp] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: ppsp revised charter = proposal

Thanks Harold for = your=20 clarification from UUSee's experience.
One more = question:People may be=20 confused about the "peer list" in the tracker protocol and the "peer = list"in the=20 peer protocol since they are same literally. We may express it clearer = about=20 this. Any good suggestions?
BR
Yunfei
zhangyunfei
2009-12-28
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA liuhy @=20 uusee
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA=20 2009-12-28 15:17:58
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn;=20 zhangyunfei
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn;=20 ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: = [ppsp]=20 ppsp revised charter proposal
 
Agree.
 
"Peer list" is much clear than "neighbor=20 peers".
 
Actually, peers usually exchanges the list of = "useful=20 list". Since connected peers either acquir resources or provide = resources to=20 each other. So, peers can do some filter work locally.
 
 
2009-12-28 =

=C1=F5=BB=B3=D3=EE=20 /  Harold Liu
=D3=C6=CA=D3=CD=F8=20 CTO
=B1=B1=BE=A9=D3=C6=CA=D3=BB=A5=B6=AF=BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE= =B9=AB=CB=BE
=B5=D8=D6=B7=A3=BA=B1=B1=BE=A9=CA=D0=B6=AB=B3=C7=C7=F8=B6=AB= =D6=B1=C3=C5=B1=B1=D0=A1=BD=D6=C7=E0=C1=FA=BA=FA=CD=AC1=BA=C5=B8=E8=BB=AA=B4=F3=CF=C39=B2=E3
=D3=CA=B1=E0=A3=BA100007
=B5=E7=BB=B0=A3=BA+86-10-84186689
=CA=D6=BB=FA=A3=BA13901143864

=D3=CA=BC=FE=A3=BAliuhy@uusee.com
=CD=F8=D6=B7=A3=BAwww.uusee.com

 
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA = 2009-12-28  14:49:35=20
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei =
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA = li.lichun1@zte.com.cn;=20 liuhy; ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA = =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised=20 charter proposal

Yes, it may=20 arouse some problems. If PPSP want to do that, some lite security = mechanism=20 maybe needed.

Besides = that, should=20 we change "exchange neighbor=20 peers" to "exchange peer lists = information=20 (owning some=20 resource)" so as to avoid the = confusion of=20 'neighbor'?



"zhangyunfei"=20 <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20

2009-12-28 14:23

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
"li.lichun1@zte.com.cn"=20 <li.lichun1@zte.com.cn>=20
=B3=AD=CB=CD
"ppsp@ietf.org"=20 <ppsp@ietf.org>, liuhy <liuhy@uusee.com>=20
=D6=F7=CC=E2
Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised = charter=20 proposal

=




<= FONT=20 face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2>Thanks Lichun.
According to my understanding,peers exchange the = neigbor peers=20 information,i.e. which peer remains connected and which pieces already = have been=20 downloaded. As for non-neigbor peers which it just receives from the = tracker, I=20 am really not sure about the effect of such exchange because such peers = are=20 un-confirmed.
Is = there anybody=20 who can tell us more about this point in = practice?James?Harold?Omer?=20
Thanks!
 
BR
Yunfei=20
 

zhangyunfei =
2009-12-28

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA = li.lichun1@zte.com.cn
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 = 11:04:21
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA = zhangyunfei
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA=20 Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal
 

The = charter says=20 "exchange neighbor = peers". I think the peer list may include peers = other than=20 neighbors. Peers can also exchange neighbors of neighbors and = non-neighbor peers=20 known from tracker.


BR, =
Lichun
"zhangyunfei"=20 <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>

2009-12-28 10:13


=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
"li.lichun1@zte.com.cn"=20 <li.lichun1@zte.com.cn>=20
=B3=AD=CB=CD
"ppsp@ietf.org"=20 <ppsp@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2
Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp = revised charter=20 proposal






Yes,you are right,Lichun.
As suggested in the BOF and = mailing=20 list,peer gossip(including exchange of peer list)can make peers know = more peers=20 and alleviate the burden of the tracker.=20
 
BR
Yunfei
 

zhangyunfei
2009-12-28

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA = li.lichun1@zte.com.cn
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA=20 2009-12-28 09:36:31
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei =
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org;=20 ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA re: [ppsp] ppsp = revised charter proposal=20
 

Hi, = yunfei.
Peers can exchange=20 peer lists, right?


Best regards,
Lichun Li
"zhangyunfei"=20 <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:=20  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org

2009-12-26 16:52


=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
"ppsp@ietf.org"=20 <ppsp@ietf.org>
=B3=AD=CB=CD
=D6=F7=CC=E2
[ppsp] ppsp revised = charter=20 proposal








Dear all,

   The latest version of PPSP = charter is=20 attached.Welcome to comment on this.I guess many of you guys are = enjoying the=20 Christmas holiday.Merry X'mas and happy new year!Wish to hear your = valuable=20 suggestions in the beginning of 2010.:)

   Hope PPSP can have a great = development=20 in the new year with all of your participation and contribution.

The main modifications are:

1)Para 2:

a)wish to make it better understood = about what the=20 tracker protocol and the peer protocol differ in and reply the BOF = comments that=20 the two protocols may be a single one;

b)Add the NAT issue raised in the BOF; =

2)Para3:

a) Para3-bullet=20 4,adding the gossip communication in peer protocol as discussed in the = mailing=20 list;

b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as suggested by = Lars that=20 optional part can be detered until we think it clearer;

3)Para4, adding LEDBAT as reference = raised in the=20 BOF.

4)Para5,deleting privay raised in the=20 BOF.

5)Para6:

a)bullet1:Adding the description of = considering the=20 NAT traversal and the multiple stream senario as discussed in the BOF = and=20 mailing list.

BR

Yunfei

****************************************************************= *********=20
Description of PPSP = Working=20 Group:
The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group = (PPSP WG) is=20 chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP = protocols) for=20 multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, content=20 distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate in = P2P=20 streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.

There are = two kinds of=20 components in PPSP protocols, i.e., =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and = =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. PPSP protocols=20 include the PPSP tracker protocol =A8C a signaling protocol between = =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and=20 =A1=B0peers=A1=B1, and the PPSP peer protocol =A8C a signaling protocol = among =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. The=20 two protocols ensure peers to get streaming data within certain time=20 constraints. PPSP tracker protocol deals with the initial and periodical = exchanges between tracker and peers: initially the peers contact the = tracker to=20 report their static information (like IP address, NAT types and other = useful=20 things) and get a list of peers for a specific channel or streaming file = from=20 the tracker; periodically the tracker maintains lists of participating = peers=20 according to the report from the peers about their status information. = PPSP peer=20 protocol deals with the exchanges among peers. The peer exchanges its = data=20 availability and neighbor peer information with other peers. With these=20 information, it can connect with these peers for further data = downloading.=20  

This WG's primary tasks are to produce:
1. A = =A1=B0problem statement=A1=B1=20 document describing the problems, incentives, and scope of developing = the PPSP=20 protocols, as well as common terminologies and concepts.

2. A=20 =A1=B0requirements=A1=B1 document listing the requirements on the = designed PPSP protocols=20 (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements of PPSP = protocols or=20 basic types of information that PPSP protocols should communicate to = facilitate=20 P2P streaming).

3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the = current P2P=20 streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and = key=20 issues in best practice. =

4. A proposed standard defining = the PPSP peer=20 protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers advertise data = availability=20 and exchange neighbor peers. The protocol will also define the requests = and=20 responses of data chunks among PPSP peers.=20

5. A proposed = standard defining=20 the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers = inform and=20 request information from PPSP trackers and how PPSP trackers reply to = the=20 requests.

6. A =A1=B0usage document=A1=B1 explaining how the = protocols defined above,=20 along with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can=20 inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce = complete P2P=20 streaming systems.


The work planned for the PPSP WG = is distinct=20 from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs,=20 particularly P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it = cannot=20 modify baseline P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP = determines=20 that extensions to P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will = seek to=20 define such extensions and present to the respective working = groups.

The design=20 of PPSP has to consider security issues. The protocol document will = contain a=20 complete description of the security issues that PPSP should=20 address.

The following topics are excluded from this WG's = scope:
1.=20 Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. using = TCP or=20 UDP, unicast or multicast, etc. However the  design  of =  PPSP=20  will  consider how it can be combined with the transport = mechanisms,=20 including NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP will also consider = the=20 scenario of transmission of multiple streams  (layered =  media).=20  This includes considering various media descriptions (e.g. data = chunk=20 description in peer protocol) after investigating different media coding = mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the=20 protocol.

2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network = coding may=20 be used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current = charter.

3. Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., = pause,=20 fast-forward, and rewind). =

4. Algorithms that may be different in = different=20 deployments (e.g., chunk selection, local storage = strategies).

5. Research=20 type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will instead forward = such=20 questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate. Examples include = cache=20 management.
Goals and Milestones:

Apr = 2010 Working Group = Last Call=20 for problem statement =
Jun 2010 Submit problem statement to = IESG as=20 Informational document =
Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call for=20 architecture survey =
Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call for=20 requirements
Oct
2010 		Submit architecture survey = to IESG as=20 Informational document =
Oct 2010 Submit requirements to IESG = as=20 Informational document =
Apr 2011 Working Group Last Call for = PPSP peer=20 protocol
Apr
2011 		Working Group Last Call for = PPSP=20 tracker protocol
Aug 2011 Submit PPSP peer protocol to = IESG as=20 Proposed Standard
Aug 2011 Submit PPSP tracker protocol = to IESG=20 as Proposed Standard =
Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of = usage=20 document
Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of = mobility=20 BCP document
Jan 2012 Submit usage document to = IESG as=20 Informational document =
Jan 2012 Submit mobility BCP document = to IESG=20 as Informational document =
Apr 2012 Dissolve or re-charter=20



 =20


zhangyunfei
2009-12-26_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing = list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

--------------------------------------------------------
ZTE=20 Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is = solely=20 property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is = confidential.=20 Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not = permitted=20 to disclose the contents of this communication to others.
This email = and any=20 files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the = use of=20 the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have = received this=20 email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views = expressed=20 in this message are those of the individual sender.
This message has = been=20 scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system.


--------------------------------------------------------
ZTE = Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is = solely=20 property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is = confidential.=20 Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not = permitted=20 to disclose the contents of this communication to others.
This email = and any=20 files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the = use of=20 the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have = received this=20 email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views = expressed=20 in this message are those of the individual sender.
This message has = been=20 scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system.
_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

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Hi Lin,
   Thanks for = the=20 comments and the revision.I like your first suggestion on the expression an= d=20 modify the sentence based on your version: This protocol will define how PPSP pee= rs=20 advertise data availability and exchange for augmenting the peer list.Thanks again!
BR
Yunfei
 
zhangyunfei=
2009-12-28
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Xiao, Lin (NSN -=20 CN/Beijing)
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4= =A3=BA=20 2009-12-28 16:22:53
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext zhangyunfei;=20 liuhy @ uusee; meng.yu@zte.com.cn
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA RE: [ppsp] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re:=20 ppsp revised charter proposal
 
Hi=20 Yunfei,
 
To=20 define the ppsp peer protocol, The charter writes: T= his=20 protocol will define how PPSP peers advertise data availability and exchang= e=20 neighbor peers.
 
I=20 think, it means a peer is required to exchange 2 kinds of=20 information:  the peer's won data availability,and other=20 peers connected with the peer who have related data. And the second=20 information is the useful extension to the peer list from the tracker.=20 Right?
 
So,=20 the sentence could be changed as: This protocol will define how PPSP=20 peers exchange their won data availability and enrich their peer lists= at=20 the same time among peers.
 
However, the question is, should we give such details = about=20 which content should be exchanged in Charter stage? Or just to simply say "= =20 define how to exchange useful information among peers"?
 
Br
Xiao=20 Lin
 

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext=20 zhangyunfei
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:18 PM
To:= =20 liuhy @ uusee; meng.yu@zte.com.cn
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject= :=20 Re: [ppsp] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: ppsp revised charter proposal

Thanks Harold for your=20 clarification from UUSee's experience.
One more question:People= may be=20 confused about the "peer list" in the tracker protocol and the "peer list"i= n the=20 peer protocol since they are same literally. We may express it clearer abou= t=20 this. Any good suggestions?
BR
Yunfei
zhangyunfei=
2009-12-28
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA liuhy @=20 uusee
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4= =A3=BA=20 2009-12-28 15:17:58
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn;=20 zhangyunfei
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA li.lichun1@zte.com.cn;=20 ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [ppsp]=20 ppsp revised charter proposal
 
Agree.
 
"Peer list" is much clear than "neighbor=20 peers".
 
Actually, peers usually exchanges the list of "u= seful=20 list". Since connected peers either acquir resources or provide resources t= o=20 each other. So, peers can do some filter work locally.
 
 
2009-12-28
=

=C1=F5= =BB=B3=D3=EE=D3=C6= =CA=D3=CD=F8=B1=B1= =BE=A9=D3=C6=CA=D3=BB=A5=B6=AF=BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE=B5=D8= =D6=B7=A3=BA=B1=B1=BE=A9=CA=D0=B6=AB=B3=C7=C7=F8=B6=AB=D6=B1=C3=C5=B1=B1=D0= =A1=BD=D6=C7=E0=C1=FA=BA=FA=CD=AC=BA=C5= =B8=E8=BB=AA=B4=F3=CF=C3=B2=E3= =D3=CA= =B1=E0=A3=BA=B5=E7= =BB=B0=A3=BA=CA=D6= =BB=FA=A3=BA=D3=CA= =BC=FE=A3=BAliuhy@uusee.com
=CD=F8= =D6=B7=A3=BAwww.uusee.com

 
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA meng.yu@zte.com.cn=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28  14:49:35=20
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA li.l= ichun1@zte.com.cn;=20 liuhy; ppsp@ietf.org; ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA =B4= =F0=B8=B4: Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised=20 charter proposal

Yes= , it may=20 arouse some problems. If PPSP want to do that, some lite security mechanism= =20 maybe needed.

Besides that,= should=20 we change "exchange neighbor=20 peers" to "exchange peer lists info= rmation=20 (owning some=20 resource)" so as to avoid the confu= sion of=20 'neighbor'?



"zhangyunfei"=20 <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20

2009-12-28 14:23

=CA=D5=BC= =FE=C8=CB
"li.lichun1@zte.com.cn"=20 <li.lichun1@zte.com.cn>=20
=B3=AD=CB= =CD
"ppsp@ietf.org"=20 <ppsp@ietf.org>, liuhy <liuhy@uusee.com>=20
=D6=F7=CC= =E2
Re: [ppsp] ppsp revised char= ter=20 proposal



<= BR>
Thanks Lichun.
According to my understanding,peers exchange the neig= bor peers=20 information,i.e. which peer remains connected and which pieces already have= been=20 downloaded. As for non-neigbor peers which it just receives from the tracke= r, I=20 am really not sure about the effect of such exchange because such peers are= =20 un-confirmed.
Is ther= e anybody=20 who can tell us more about this point in practice?James?Harold?Omer?= =20
Thanks!
 
BR
Yunfei=20
 

zhangyunfei
2009-12-28

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA li.lichun= 1@zte.com.cn
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2009-12-28 11= :04:21
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei =
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA=20 Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp revised charter proposal
 

The charter= says=20 "exchange neighbor peers<= FONT=20 face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>". I think the peer list may include peers other= than=20 neighbors. Peers can also exchange neighbors of neighbors and non-neighbor = peers=20 known from tracker.


BR,=20
Lichun
"zhangyunfei"=20 <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>

2009-12-28 10:13


=CA=D5=BC= =FE=C8=CB
"li.lichun1@zt= e.com.cn"=20 <li.lichun1@zte.com.cn>=20
=B3=AD=CB= =CD
"ppsp@ietf.org"=20 <ppsp@ietf.org> <= /FONT>
=D6=F7=CC= =E2
Re: re: [ppsp] ppsp revised = charter=20 proposal




<= FONT=20 face=3DVerdana size=3D2>


Yes,you are right,Lichun.
As suggested in the BOF and mail= ing=20 list,peer gossip(including exchange of peer list)can make peers know more p= eers=20 and alleviate the burden of the tracker.=20
 
BR
Yunfei
 

zhangyunfei
2009-12-28

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA li.lichun= 1@zte.com.cn
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA=20 2009-12-28 09:36:31
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei
= =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org;=20 ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA re: [ppsp] ppsp revised= charter proposal=20
 

Hi, yunfei.<= /FONT>
Peers = can exchange=20 peer lists, right?


Best regards,
Lichun Li
"zhangyunfei"=20 <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:=20  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org <= /FONT>

2009-12-26 16:52


=CA=D5=BC= =FE=C8=CB
"ppsp@ietf.org= "=20 <ppsp@ietf.org> <= /FONT>
=B3=AD=CB= =CD
=D6=F7=CC= =E2
[ppsp] ppsp revised charter = proposal





<= FONT=20 face=3DVerdana size=3D2>

<= BR>
Dear all,

   The latest version of PPSP ch= arter is=20 attached.Welcome to comment on this.I guess many of you guys are enjoying t= he=20 Christmas holiday.Merry X'mas and happy new year!Wish to hear your valuable= =20 suggestions in the beginning of 2010.:)

   Hope PPSP can have a great de= velopment=20 in the new year with all of your participation and contribution.

The main modifications are:

1)Para 2:

a)wish to make it better understood about = what the=20 tracker protocol and the peer protocol differ in and reply the BOF comments= that=20 the two protocols may be a single one;

b)Add the NAT issue raised in the BOF;

2)Para3:

a) Para3-bullet=20 4,adding the gossip communication in peer protocol as discussed in the mail= ing=20 list;

b)Para3-bullet7, deleted as suggested by Lar= s that=20 optional part can be detered until we think it clearer;

3)Para4, adding LEDBAT as reference raised i= n the=20 BOF.

4)Para5,deleting privay raised in the=20 BOF.

5)Para6:

a)bullet1:Adding the description of consider= ing the=20 NAT traversal and the multiple stream senario as discussed in the BOF and=20 mailing list.

BR

Yunfei

******************************************************************= *******=20
Description of PPSP Worki= ng=20 Group:
The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP = WG) is=20 chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP protocols) f= or=20 multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, content=20 distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate in P2= P=20 streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.

There are two = kinds of=20 components in PPSP protocols, i.e., =A1=B0trackers=A1=B1 and =A1=B0peers=A1= =B1. PPSP protocols=20 include the PPSP tracker protocol =A8C a signaling protocol between =A1=B0t= rackers=A1=B1 and=20 =A1=B0peers=A1=B1, and the PPSP peer protocol =A8C a signaling protocol amo= ng =A1=B0peers=A1=B1. The=20 two protocols ensure peers to get streaming data within certain time=20 constraints. PPSP tracker protocol deals with the initial and periodical=20 exchanges between tracker and peers: initially the peers contact the tracke= r to=20 report their static information (like IP address, NAT types and other usefu= l=20 things) and get a list of peers for a specific channel or streaming file fr= om=20 the tracker; periodically the tracker maintains lists of participating peer= s=20 according to the report from the peers about their status information. PPSP= peer=20 protocol deals with the exchanges among peers. The peer exchanges its data = availability and neighbor peer information with other peers. With these=20 information, it can connect with these peers for further data downloading. =  

This WG's primary tasks are to produce:
1. A =A1=B0problem = statement=A1=B1=20 document describing the problems, incentives, and scope of developing the P= PSP=20 protocols, as well as common terminologies and concepts.
2. A=20 =A1=B0requirements=A1=B1 document listing the requirements on the designed = PPSP protocols=20 (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements of PPSP protocols= or=20 basic types of information that PPSP protocols should communicate to facili= tate=20 P2P streaming).

3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the curre= nt P2P=20 streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and key= =20 issues in best practice.

4. A proposed standard defining the P= PSP peer=20 protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers advertise data availabil= ity=20 and exchange neighbor peers. The protocol will also define the requests and= =20 responses of data chunks among PPSP peers.=20

5. A proposed standard d= efining=20 the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers inform = and=20 request information from PPSP trackers and how PPSP trackers reply to the=20 requests.

6. A =A1=B0usage document=A1=B1 explaining how the protocols d= efined above,=20 along with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can=20 inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce complete = P2P=20 streaming systems.


The work planned for the PPSP WG is d= istinct=20 from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs,=20 particularly P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it ca= nnot=20 modify baseline P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determin= es=20 that extensions to P2PSIP, ALTO,LEDBAT and MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will see= k to=20 define such extensions and present to the respective working groups.=
The design=20 of PPSP has to consider security issues. The protocol document will contain= a=20 complete description of the security issues that PPSP should=20 address.

The following topics are excluded from this WG's scope:
1. = Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. using TCP= or=20 UDP, unicast or multicast, etc. However the  design  of  PPS= P=20  will  consider how it can be combined with the transport mechani= sms,=20 including NAT traversal problem. The design of PPSP will also consider the = scenario of transmission of multiple streams  (layered  media).=20  This includes considering various media descriptions (e.g. data chunk= =20 description in peer protocol) after investigating different media coding=20 mechanisms (e.g. SVC, MDC) to incorporate their features in the=20 protocol.

2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network cod= ing may=20 be used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current=20 charter.

3. Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., paus= e,=20 fast-forward, and rewind).
=
4. Algorithms that may be different in di= fferent=20 deployments (e.g., chunk selection, local storage strategies).
5. Research=20 type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will instead forward such = questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate. Examples include ca= che=20 management.
Goals and Milestones:

Apr 2010 Working Group Las= t Call=20 for problem statement
Jun 2010 Submit problem statement to IES= G as=20 Informational document
Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call for=20 architecture survey
Aug 2010 Working Group Last Call for=20 requirements
Oct
2010<= FONT=20 face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> 		Submit architecture survey to I= ESG as=20 Informational document
Oct 2010 Submit requirements to IESG as = Informational document
Apr 2011 Working Group Last Call for PPS= P peer=20 protocol
Apr
2011<= FONT=20 face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> 		Working Group Last Call for PPS= P=20 tracker protocol
Aug 2011 Submit PPSP peer protocol to IE= SG as=20 Proposed Standard
Aug 2011 Submit PPSP tracker protocol to= IESG=20 as Proposed Standard
Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of usag= e=20 document
Nov 2011 Working Group Last Call of mobi= lity=20 BCP document
Jan 2012 Submit usage document to IESG a= s=20 Informational document
Jan 2012 Submit mobility BCP document to= IESG=20 as Informational document
Apr 2012 Dissolve or re-charter=20



 =20


zhangyunfei
2009-12-26=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
ppsp mailing=20 list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

=
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This email and= any=20 files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use = of=20 the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received t= his=20 email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expre= ssed=20 in this message are those of the individual sender.
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ZTE=20 Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is sole= ly=20 property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confident= ial.=20 Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permit= ted=20 to disclose the contents of this communication to others.
This email and= any=20 files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use = of=20 the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received t= his=20 email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expre= ssed=20 in this message are those of the individual sender.
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ppsp mailing=20 list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

--=====003_Dragon618520780043_=====-- From guyingjie@huawei.com Thu Dec 31 00:40:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4064F3A68FE for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:40:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.165 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.059, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IVAsl1saA56q for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:40:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545413A683B for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:40:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga01-in [172.24.2.3]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KVI00JWQDF55G@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:40:17 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KVI00GYIDF5HZ@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:40:17 +0800 (CST) Received: from g00107907 ([10.164.12.64]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KVI00JCEDF45D@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:40:17 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:40:16 +0800 From: "Y.J. Gu" In-reply-to: <200912281655160467256@chinamobile.com> To: ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <001701ca89f4$e0ce9160$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_HIywPijWO4F/EDNAKH85LA)" Thread-index: AcqHm5E/GskRT+93RYq6kH6sYwiMxACWJ3hQ Subject: [ppsp] Happy New Year! X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:40:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_HIywPijWO4F/EDNAKH85LA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi all, Tomorrow is the first day of 2010, the beginning of a new year. Wish all of you have a Happy New Year and hope PPSP achieve its milestones and targets. ^_^ Regards Yingjie Gu --Boundary_(ID_HIywPijWO4F/EDNAKH85LA) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi all,
Tomorrow is the first day of 2010, the beginning of a new year.
Wish all of you have a Happy New Year and hope PPSP achieve its milestones and targets.
^_^
 
 

Regards

Yingjie Gu

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Gu" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <001701ca89f4$e0ce9160$400ca40a@china.huawei.com> Message-ID: <200912312104596716355@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-31 21:15:21, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-12-31 21:06:42, Serialize complete at 2009-12-31 21:06:42 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon353017640540_=====" Subject: Re: [ppsp] Happy New Year! 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