From li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Sun Jul 3 23:11:58 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F12321F850E for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 23:11:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.838 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.838 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1W3AJHA0hV1u for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 23:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx5.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530F421F84F5 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 23:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 4864790912505; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:03:44 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.21] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 86255.790912505; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:11:45 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse02.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p646BfOp052997 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:11:41 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from li.lichun1@zte.com.cn) To: ppsp@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: E0FDEB39:F7D132EB-482578BF:0034E276; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 Message-ID: From: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:11:42 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-07-04 14:11:43, Serialize complete at 2011-07-04 14:11:43 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0022150E482578C3_=" X-MAIL: mse02.zte.com.cn p646BfOp052997 Subject: [ppsp] comments for gu-ppsp-tracker-protocol and gu-ppsp-peer-protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 06:11:58 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0022150E482578C3_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Comments for draft-gu-ppsp-tracker-protocol-04. 1. Section 6 "To protect signaling from impersonation attackers, who pretend to be another peer rather than their authentic identities, certificates along with TLS/DTLS could be used to ensure that each message is sent from an authorized participant (tracker or peer) of the P2P streaming system." HTTP is based on TCP. I think only TLS is applicable. 2. The example of peer list is not given. Comments for draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02. 1. Is it better to add in messages? 2. "3.1. Protocol Architecture The proposed PPSP Peer Protocol uses a newly defined, light weight gossip protocol between the peers to exchange the actual information, but uses the RELOAD [I-D.ietf-p2psip-base] protocol to establish the connections between peers and to locate other peers with which to establish gossip protocol connections." Tracker protocol draft and peer protocol draft should consider not-implementing-NAT-traversal instead of RELOAD as default. Implementing and using RELOAD is not neccesary if there is no NAT or the ratio of NATed peer is very low. RELOAD is not the only way to establish connection to NATed peers. Otherthan RELOAD, there is another way (PPSP-ICE), which is proposed in my NAT traversal draft. Using RELOAD or PPSP-ICE brings more work to implementing a P2P streaming system. BR Lichun -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system. --=_alternative 0022150E482578C3_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Comments for draft-gu-ppsp-tracker-protocol-04.
1.
Section 6
 "To protect signaling from impersonation attackers, who pretend to be
   another peer rather than their authentic identities, certificates
   along with TLS/DTLS could be used to ensure that each message is sent
   from an authorized participant (tracker or peer) of the P2P streaming
   system."

HTTP is based on TCP. I think only TLS is applicable.


2.
The example of peer list is not given.


Comments for draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02.

1.
Is it better to add <DestPeerID> in messages?


2.
"3.1.  Protocol Architecture

   The proposed PPSP Peer Protocol uses a newly defined, light weight
   gossip protocol between the peers to exchange the actual information,
   but uses the RELOAD [I-D.ietf-p2psip-base] protocol to establish the
   connections between peers and to locate other peers with which to
   establish gossip protocol connections."

Tracker protocol draft and peer protocol draft should consider not-implementing-NAT-traversal instead of RELOAD as default.
Implementing and using RELOAD is not neccesary if there is no NAT or the ratio of NATed peer is very low.
RELOAD is not the only way to establish connection to NATed peers. Otherthan RELOAD, there is another way (PPSP-ICE), which is proposed in my NAT traversal draft.
Using RELOAD or PPSP-ICE brings more work to implementing a P2P streaming system.


BR
Lichun

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--=_alternative 0022150E482578C3_=-- From guyingjie@huawei.com Tue Jul 5 01:03:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF6821F8747 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 01:03:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.608 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.608 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.540, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pqH1EgcWhaZE for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 01:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26ABD21F8740 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 01:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNU007EIOXWYQ@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:01:08 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNU00ELNOXW3Y@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:01:08 +0800 (CST) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO szxeml201-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ACG92640; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:01:07 +0800 (CST) Received: from SZXEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.95) by szxeml201-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.39) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:01:02 +0800 Received: from g00107907 (10.138.41.104) by szxeml408-hub.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:01:07 +0800 Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:03:24 +0800 From: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" In-reply-to: X-Originating-IP: [10.138.41.104] To: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn, ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <003701cc3aea$03dec0b0$0b9c4210$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Fdl3JsR40DSPpi1koIbGPQ)" Content-language: zh-cn Thread-index: Acw6EbOpQ2XUnAbOTW+vFQEdSVR7CwA1gBxQ X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected References: Subject: Re: [ppsp] comments for gu-ppsp-tracker-protocol and gu-ppsp-peer-protocol X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 08:03:16 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_Fdl3JsR40DSPpi1koIbGPQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lichun, Thank you very much for your comments.=20 See inline please. =20 _____ =20 Best Regards Gu Yingjie =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED li.lichun1@zte.com.cn =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C24=C8=D5 =C0=D6=C0=D614:12 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [ppsp] comments for gu-ppsp-tracker-protocol and = gu-ppsp-peer-protocol =20 Comments for draft-gu-ppsp-tracker-protocol-04.=20 1.=20 Section 6=20 "To protect signaling from impersonation attackers, who pretend to be=20 another peer rather than their authentic identities, certificates=20 along with TLS/DTLS could be used to ensure that each message is sent = from an authorized participant (tracker or peer) of the P2P streaming = system."=20 HTTP is based on TCP. I think only TLS is applicable.=20 [Gu] Yes, Thank you. 2.=20 The example of peer list is not given.=20 [Gu] I will add an example in next version. Comments for draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02.=20 1.=20 Is it better to add in messages?=20 [Gu] You are right.=20 2.=20 "3.1. Protocol Architecture=20 The proposed PPSP Peer Protocol uses a newly defined, light weight=20 gossip protocol between the peers to exchange the actual information, = but uses the RELOAD [I-D.ietf-p2psip-base] protocol to establish the=20 connections between peers and to locate other peers with which to=20 establish gossip protocol connections."=20 Tracker protocol draft and peer protocol draft should consider not-implementing-NAT-traversal instead of RELOAD as default.=20 Implementing and using RELOAD is not neccesary if there is no NAT or the ratio of NATed peer is very low.=20 RELOAD is not the only way to establish connection to NATed peers. = Otherthan RELOAD, there is another way (PPSP-ICE), which is proposed in my NAT traversal draft.=20 Using RELOAD or PPSP-ICE brings more work to implementing a P2P = streaming system.=20 [Gu] Yes you are right, I should revise this sentence. I remember that = in this version of the Tracker protocol, I have removed the default = reference to RELOAD for NAT traversal. And I do assume that no NAT is involved, = and pointed out in the text that there are other drafts describe how to = resolve NAT traversal. The Tracker and peer protocol won=A1=AFt take NAT = Traversal into account but will be ready to update based NAT traversal requirements = that are raised by other drafts and are regarded as necessary by the WG. I = will revise this sentence. Thank you for your review.=20 BR=20 Lichun =20 -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail = is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy = and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to = others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of = the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system. --Boundary_(ID_Fdl3JsR40DSPpi1koIbGPQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Lichun,

Thank you very = much for your comments.

See = inline please.

 

=

B= est Regards
Gu Yingjie

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED = li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C24=C8=D5 = =C0=D6=C0=D614:12
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [ppsp] comments for = gu-ppsp-tracker-protocol and = gu-ppsp-peer-protocol

 


Comments for = draft-gu-ppsp-tracker-protocol-04. =
1.
Section = 6
 "T= o protect signaling from impersonation attackers, who pretend to = be
  =  another peer rather than their authentic identities, = certificates
  =  along with TLS/DTLS could be used to ensure that each message is = sent
  =  from an authorized participant (tracker or peer) of the P2P = streaming
  =  system."

HTTP is = based on TCP. I think only TLS is applicable. =

[Gu] Yes, Thank = you.



2.
The example = of peer list is not given.

[Gu] I will add an example in next = version.


Comments for = draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02. =

1.
Is it better = to add <DestPeerID> in messages? =

[Gu] You are right. =


2.
"3.1. =  Protocol Architecture =

  =  The proposed PPSP Peer Protocol uses a newly defined, light = weight
  =  gossip protocol between the peers to exchange the actual = information,
  =  but uses the RELOAD [I-D.ietf-p2psip-base] protocol to establish = the
  =  connections between peers and to locate other peers with which = to
  =  establish gossip protocol connections."

Tracker = protocol draft and peer protocol draft should consider = not-implementing-NAT-traversal instead of RELOAD as default.
Implementing = and using RELOAD is not neccesary if there is no NAT or the ratio of = NATed peer is very low.
RELOAD is = not the only way to establish connection to NATed peers. Otherthan = RELOAD, there is another way (PPSP-ICE), which is proposed in my NAT = traversal draft.
Using RELOAD = or PPSP-ICE brings more work to implementing a P2P streaming = system.
[Gu] = Yes you are right, I should revise this sentence. I remember that in = this version of the Tracker protocol, I have removed the default = reference to RELOAD for NAT traversal. And I do assume that no NAT is = involved, and pointed out in the text that there are other drafts = describe how to resolve NAT traversal. The Tracker and peer protocol = won=A1=AFt take NAT Traversal into account but will be ready to update = based NAT traversal requirements that are raised by other drafts and are = regarded as necessary by the WG. I will revise this sentence. Thank you = for your review.

BR
Lichun= 

 
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= --Boundary_(ID_Fdl3JsR40DSPpi1koIbGPQ)-- From guyingjie@huawei.com Tue Jul 5 02:31:33 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13A4E21F85F5 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 02:31:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.969 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.969 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.631, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FC4mYFHeSNmL for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 02:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD22A21F85F2 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 02:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNU005ZPT4B31@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:31:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNU00ILTT3SWQ@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:31:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO szxeml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ACH00092; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:31:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from SZXEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.95) by szxeml203-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:31:20 +0800 Received: from g00107907 (10.138.41.104) by szxeml408-hub.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:31:22 +0800 Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:33:39 +0800 From: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" X-Originating-IP: [10.138.41.104] To: ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <004e01cc3af6$9fc4ea70$df4ebf50$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-language: zh-cn Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: Acw69W73m+mAZQrzSoyWmr66FQpCpAAAQ1JQ X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: Re: [ppsp] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ppsp-survey-02.txt X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 09:31:33 -0000 Hi all, We have submitted a new version of PPSP Survey draft. Please have a look = at the draft and let us know your comments. Thank you. Best Regards Gu Yingjie -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org = [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5 = =E4=B9=90=E4=B9=9017:25 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: guyingjie@huawei.com =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lei@cs.uni-goettingen.de; guyingjie@huawei.com; = gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com; zongning@huawei.com; yongliu@poly.edu; = delfin.montuno@huawei.com; zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com; = xielei57471@huawei.com; huizhang@nec-labs.com =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for = draft-ietf-ppsp-survey-02.txt A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ppsp-survey-02.txt has been = successfully submitted by Gu Yingjie and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-ietf-ppsp-survey Revision: 02 Title: Survey of P2P Streaming Applications Creation date: 2011-07-05 WG ID: ppsp Number of pages: 35 Abstract: This document surveys a number of popular Peer-to-Peer streaming applications on the Internet. The Architecture and Peer Protocol/Tracker Signaling Protocol description is our main focus., We study well-known P2P streaming systems, including Joost, PPlive, and other popular existing systems, and we summarize a common P2P streaming process model and its correspondent signaling process for use in the P2P Streaming Protocol standardization effort. = =20 The IETF Secretariat From internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue Jul 5 02:24:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0758C21F8798; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 02:24:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YLD+nmg38vpA; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 02:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AE7F21F8794; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 02:24:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.55 Message-ID: <20110705092431.25068.15661.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 02:24:31 -0700 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 02:33:58 -0700 Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ppsp-survey-02.txt X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 09:24:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Peer to Peer Streaming Protocol Worki= ng Group of the IETF. Title : Survey of P2P Streaming Applications Author(s) : Gu Yingjie Zong Ning Hui Zhang Zhang Yunfei Lei Jun Gonzalo Camarillo Liu Yong Delfin Montuno Xie Lei Filename : draft-ietf-ppsp-survey-02.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2011-07-05 This document surveys a number of popular Peer-to-Peer streaming applications on the Internet. The Architecture and Peer Protocol/Tracker Signaling Protocol description is our main focus., We study well-known P2P streaming systems, including Joost, PPlive, and other popular existing systems, and we summarize a common P2P streaming process model and its correspondent signaling process for use in the P2P Streaming Protocol standardization effort. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-survey-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-survey-02.txt From internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue Jul 5 02:31:17 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8FA21F85F1; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 02:31:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vpa3X-r5R1JG; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 02:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F5621F85E9; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 02:31:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.55 Message-ID: <20110705093117.26942.22480.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 02:31:17 -0700 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 02:34:10 -0700 Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-02.txt X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 09:31:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Peer to Peer Streaming Protocol Worki= ng Group of the IETF. Title : Problem Statement of P2P Streaming Protocol (PPSP) Author(s) : Yunfei Zhang Ning Zong Gonzalo Camarillo Richard Yang Filename : draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-02.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2011-07-05 P2P streaming systems show more and more popularity in current Internet with proprietary protocols. This document identifies problems of the proprietary protocols, proposes standard signaling protocols called PPSP and discusses the scope and use cases of PPSP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-02.txt From lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de Tue Jul 5 07:26:56 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BA9621F8604 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 07:26:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XPskC2QVu8KX for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 07:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailer-b4.gwdg.de (mailer-b4.gwdg.de [134.76.10.28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD7921F8602 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 07:26:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gwdexc-fe2.exc.top.gwdg.de ([134.76.26.172] helo=vsmtpgwdexc.exc.top.gwdg.de) by mailer.gwdg.de with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qe6aS-0001Ma-W5 for ppsp@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:26:53 +0200 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([125.125.191.52]) by vsmtpgwdexc.exc.top.gwdg.de over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 5 Jul 2011 16:26:51 +0200 Message-ID: <4E131F27.8000702@informatik.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:26:47 +0200 From: jlei User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ppsp@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020206000800080503070101" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2011 14:26:52.0335 (UTC) FILETIME=[9564FBF0:01CC3B1F] X-Virus-Scanned: (clean) by exiscan+sophie Subject: [ppsp] Fwd: Re: New version of Peer protocol, looking forward to your comments. X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:26:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020206000800080503070101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to your comments. Datum: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:24:52 +0200 Von: jlei An: Yingjie Gu(yingjie) Hi, Yingjie: please see inline. > > Hi Jun, > > Thank you very much for your comments. > > Please find my reply in below. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Best Regards > Gu Yingjie > > *发件人:*jlei [mailto:lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de] > *发送时间:*2011年7月5日 乐乐14:57 > *收件人:*Yingjie Gu(yingjie) > *主题:*Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to your > comments. > > Hi, Yingjie, > > thanks for your effort. > > please find some comments below. > > 1. section 4.2.1.3.1 > > “FIND message is sent from a peer to remote peer or a Tracker. ” > > If FIND is sent from a peer to a Tracker, in which senario? as the > peer protocol is used to carry information to faciliate peering and > data exchange. > [Gu] I agree that my description is confusing. When I design the > Tracker and peer protocol, I hope they could be consistent, i.e. > similar encoding and some methods can be shared. FIND and FIND_CHUNK > are the shared methods. They have similar intention: to find the peers > that can provide specific content. If FIND is sent to Tracker, the > requesting peer hopes that Tracker can feedback with list of candidate > peers. If FIND is sent to remote peer, the requesting peer hopes that > the remote peer can feedback with list of candidate peers. You may > find that the encoding of FIND in both Tracker and Peer protocol is > the same, except for the part, which can also be added to FIND > message in Peer protocol. > I understand your intention here. However, it might be better to keep the focus out of Tracker in this sense as you describe peer protocol. If you emphasize the consistence, you could add the similarity for "FIND" or "FIND_CHUNK" with tracker protocol. > > > 2. Section 3.2 > > The example gives a swarming procedure. Does it possible for a peer to > contact some remote peer directly if the connection history is > available in its local cache? as it is common in most existing p2p > applications (e.g. Skype). > [Gu] Yes, it’s quite possible. Considering of this case, the first two > steps in Figure should be optional. > Agree. > > > 3. Do you consider using HTTPS after the first stage of connection? If > you rely on HTTP to communicate at the first place, for security > reasons it might be better to use HTTPS later. What do you think? > > [Gu] For security, HTTPs is better. However we need to consider the > additional workload introduced by HTTPs. I do not oppose HTTPs, it’s > not bad for standards to make a perfect protocol, but we should also > take the implementation into consideration. We need to answer: do > users care so much about privacy when they use P2P streaming? I hope > we can hear more voice on this problem. > I agree that HTTPS may introduce additional workload. Besides, using HTTPS here is not only for taking care of users' privacy but securing the transmitted data and related mechanisms. As we measured Joost, it relies on HTTPS to transmit data after authenticating users. thanks Jun > > Thank you again for reviewing and commenting. > > Best Regards > > Jun > > > > Hi all, > > The authors have updated the peer protocol draft. You can find it at > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02. > > Any comments are welcome. > > Let’s have some discussion before meeting. > > Best Regards > > Yingjie > > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > > > -- > Dr. Jun Lei > Research Associate > > Address: > Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen > Institut fuer Informatik > Computer Networks Group > Goldschmidtstr. 7 > 37077 Goettingen > > > Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03 > Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78 > > Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de -- Dr. Jun Lei Research Associate Address: Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen Institut fuer Informatik Computer Networks Group Goldschmidtstr. 7 37077 Goettingen Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03 Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78 Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de --------------020206000800080503070101 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to your comments.
Datum: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:24:52 +0200
Von: jlei <lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de>
An: Yingjie Gu(yingjie) <guyingjie@huawei.com>


Hi, Yingjie:

please see inline.

Hi Jun,

Thank you very much for your comments.

Please find my reply in below.

Best Regards
Gu Yingjie

 

发件人: jlei [mailto:lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de]
发送时间: 2011年7月5日 乐乐14:57
收件人: Yingjie Gu(yingjie)
主题: Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to your comments.

 

Hi, Yingjie,

thanks for your effort.

please find some comments below.

1. section 4.2.1.3.1

“FIND message is sent from a peer to remote peer or a Tracker. ”

If FIND is sent from a peer to a Tracker, in which senario? as the peer protocol is used to carry information to faciliate peering and data exchange.
[Gu] I agree that my description is confusing.  When I design the Tracker and peer protocol, I hope they could be  consistent, i.e. similar encoding and some methods can be shared. FIND and FIND_CHUNK are the shared methods. They have similar intention: to find the peers that can provide specific content. If FIND is sent to Tracker, the requesting peer hopes that Tracker can feedback with list of candidate peers. If FIND is sent to remote peer, the requesting peer hopes that the remote peer can feedback with list of candidate peers. You may find that the encoding of FIND in both Tracker and Peer protocol is the same, except for the <Stats> part, which can also be added to FIND message in Peer protocol.

 

I understand your intention here. However, it might be better to keep the focus out of Tracker in this sense as you describe peer protocol. If you emphasize the consistence, you could add the similarity for "FIND" or "FIND_CHUNK" with tracker protocol.


2. Section 3.2

The example gives a swarming procedure. Does it possible for a peer to contact some remote peer directly if the connection history is available in its local cache? as it is common in most existing p2p applications (e.g. Skype).
[Gu] Yes, it’s quite possible. Considering of this case, the first two steps in Figure should be optional.

Agree.


3. Do you consider using HTTPS after the first stage of connection? If you rely on HTTP to communicate at the first place, for security reasons it might be better to use HTTPS later. What do you think?

 

[Gu] For security, HTTPs is better. However we need to consider the additional workload introduced by HTTPs. I do not oppose HTTPs, it’s not bad for standards to make a perfect protocol, but we should also take the implementation into consideration. We need to answer: do users care so much about privacy when they use P2P streaming? I hope we can hear more voice on this problem.


I agree that HTTPS may introduce additional workload. Besides, using HTTPS here is not only for taking care of users' privacy but securing the transmitted data and related mechanisms. As we measured Joost, it relies on HTTPS to transmit data after authenticating users.

thanks

Jun

 

Thank you again for reviewing and commenting.

Best Regards

Jun



Hi all,

The authors have updated the peer protocol draft. You can find it at

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02.

Any comments are welcome.

Let’s have some discussion before meeting.

 

Best Regards

Yingjie

 

 
 
_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp




-- 
Dr. Jun Lei
Research Associate
 
Address:
Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen
Institut fuer Informatik
Computer Networks Group
Goldschmidtstr. 7
37077 Goettingen 
 
 
Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03
Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78
 
Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de


-- 
Dr. Jun Lei
Research Associate

Address:
Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen
Institut fuer Informatik
Computer Networks Group
Goldschmidtstr. 7
37077 Goettingen 


Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03
Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78

Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de
--------------020206000800080503070101-- From guyingjie@huawei.com Tue Jul 5 18:26:38 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8E621F887C for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:26:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.047 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8NYU0+C-BnLk for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20DF021F8698 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNW00FNS1C7AT@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:26:32 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNW00GQS1C7JO@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:26:31 +0800 (CST) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO szxeml202-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ABT74204; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:26:31 +0800 (CST) Received: from SZXEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.60) by szxeml202-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:26:24 +0800 Received: from g00107907 (10.138.41.104) by szxeml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:26:29 +0800 Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:28:50 +0800 From: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" In-reply-to: <4E131F27.8000702@informatik.uni-goettingen.de> X-Originating-IP: [10.138.41.104] To: 'jlei' , ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <004d01cc3b7c$0f86ae90$2e940bb0$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Scvpq8KB3lcKemyXkYGUwg)" Content-language: zh-cn Thread-index: Acw7H7hcTWNXnuBPQCifqX7t3p6VNgAWupDw X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected References: <4E131F27.8000702@informatik.uni-goettingen.de> Subject: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIEZ3ZDogUmU6ICBOZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBQ?= =?gb2312?b?ZWVyIHByb3RvY29sLCBsb29raW5nIGZvcndhcmQgdG8geW91ciBj?= =?gb2312?b?b21tZW50cy4=?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 01:26:38 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_Scvpq8KB3lcKemyXkYGUwg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jun, Do you mean that we use HTTPs for data transferring? According to the = scope of peer protocol, the peer protocol provides mechanism for transport protocol negotiation, but itself doesn=A1=AFt define how to transfer = data. But I think we need to designate a mandatory transport protocol. =20 =20 If you mean that HTTPs should be used for Peer connection, e.g. property exchange and chunk availability exchange, I think it=A1=AFs reasonable = to take it into account. =20 =20 =20 _____ =20 Best Regards Gu Yingjie =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED jlei =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C25=C8=D5 =C0=D6=C0=D622:27 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [ppsp] Fwd: Re: New version of Peer protocol, looking = forward to your comments. =20 -------- Original-Nachricht --------=20 Betreff:=20 Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to your = comments. Datum:=20 Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:24:52 +0200 Von:=20 jlei An:=20 Yingjie Gu(yingjie) = Hi, Yingjie: please see inline. Hi Jun, Thank you very much for your comments. Please find my reply in below. _____ =20 Best Regards Gu Yingjie =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: jlei [mailto:lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C25=C8=D5 =C0=D6=C0=D614:57 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Yingjie Gu(yingjie) =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to = your comments. =20 Hi, Yingjie, thanks for your effort. please find some comments below. 1. section 4.2.1.3.1=20 =A1=B0FIND message is sent from a peer to remote peer or a Tracker. = =A1=B1 If FIND is sent from a peer to a Tracker, in which senario? as the peer protocol is used to carry information to faciliate peering and data exchange. [Gu] I agree that my description is confusing. When I design the = Tracker and peer protocol, I hope they could be consistent, i.e. similar = encoding and some methods can be shared. FIND and FIND_CHUNK are the shared = methods. They have similar intention: to find the peers that can provide specific content. If FIND is sent to Tracker, the requesting peer hopes that = Tracker can feedback with list of candidate peers. If FIND is sent to remote = peer, the requesting peer hopes that the remote peer can feedback with list of candidate peers. You may find that the encoding of FIND in both Tracker = and Peer protocol is the same, except for the part, which can also = be added to FIND message in Peer protocol. =20 I understand your intention here. However, it might be better to keep = the focus out of Tracker in this sense as you describe peer protocol. If you emphasize the consistence, you could add the similarity for "FIND" or "FIND_CHUNK" with tracker protocol.=20 2. Section 3.2 The example gives a swarming procedure. Does it possible for a peer to contact some remote peer directly if the connection history is available = in its local cache? as it is common in most existing p2p applications (e.g. Skype). [Gu] Yes, it=A1=AFs quite possible. Considering of this case, the first = two steps in Figure should be optional.=20 Agree. 3. Do you consider using HTTPS after the first stage of connection? If = you rely on HTTP to communicate at the first place, for security reasons it might be better to use HTTPS later. What do you think? =20 [Gu] For security, HTTPs is better. However we need to consider the additional workload introduced by HTTPs. I do not oppose HTTPs, = it=A1=AFs not bad for standards to make a perfect protocol, but we should also take = the implementation into consideration. We need to answer: do users care so = much about privacy when they use P2P streaming? I hope we can hear more voice = on this problem.=20 I agree that HTTPS may introduce additional workload. Besides, using = HTTPS here is not only for taking care of users' privacy but securing the transmitted data and related mechanisms. As we measured Joost, it relies = on HTTPS to transmit data after authenticating users.=20 thanks Jun =20 Thank you again for reviewing and commenting.=20 Best Regards Jun Hi all, The authors have updated the peer protocol draft. You can find it at=20 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02. Any comments are welcome. Let=A1=AFs have some discussion before meeting.=20 =20 Best Regards Yingjie =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp --=20 Dr. Jun Lei Research Associate =20 Address: Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen Institut fuer Informatik Computer Networks Group Goldschmidtstr. 7 37077 Goettingen=20 =20 =20 Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03 Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78 =20 Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de --=20 Dr. Jun Lei Research Associate =20 Address: Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen Institut fuer Informatik Computer Networks Group Goldschmidtstr. 7 37077 Goettingen=20 =20 =20 Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03 Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78 =20 Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de --Boundary_(ID_Scvpq8KB3lcKemyXkYGUwg) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi= Jun,

Do= you mean that we use HTTPs for data transferring? According to the = scope of peer protocol, the peer protocol provides mechanism for = transport protocol negotiation, but itself doesn=A1=AFt define how to = transfer data. But I think we need to designate a mandatory transport = protocol.  

 

If= you mean that HTTPs should be used for Peer connection, e.g. property = exchange and chunk availability exchange,  I think it=A1=AFs = reasonable to take it into account.

 

 

 

Best = Regards
Gu Yingjie

 

=B7=A2= =BC=FE=C8=CB: = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA= =B1=ED jlei=
=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: = 2011=C4=EA= 7=D4=C25=C8=D5 = =C0=D6=C0=D622:27
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [ppsp] Fwd: Re: New version = of Peer protocol, looking forward to your = comments.

 



-------- Original-Nachricht -------- =

Betreff: =

Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer = protocol,looking forward to your comments.

Datum: =

Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:24:52 = +0200

Von: =

jlei <lei@informatik.uni-g= oettingen.de>

An:

Yingjie Gu(yingjie) <guyingjie@huawei.com>



Hi, = Yingjie:

please see inline.

Hi= Jun,

Th= ank you very much for your comments.

Pl= ease find my reply in below.

Best = Regards
Gu Yingjie

&n= bsp;

=B7=A2= =BC=FE=C8=CB: = jlei [mailto:lei@informatik.un= i-goettingen.de]
=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: = 2011=C4=EA= 7=D4=C25=C8=D5 = =C0=D6=C0=D614:57
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Yingjie = Gu(yingjie)
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] New version of = Peer protocol,looking forward to your comments.

 

Hi, Yingjie,

thanks for your effort.

please = find some comments below.

1. section 4.2.1.3.1

=A1=B0FIND = message is sent from a peer to remote peer or a Tracker. = =A1=B1

If FIND is sent from a peer to a Tracker, in which = senario? as the peer protocol is used to carry information to faciliate = peering and data exchange.
[Gu] I agree that my description is confusing. =  When I design the Tracker and peer protocol, I hope they could be =  consistent, i.e. similar encoding and some methods can be shared. = FIND and FIND_CHUNK are the shared methods. They have similar intention: = to find the peers that can provide specific content. If FIND is sent to = Tracker, the requesting peer hopes that Tracker can feedback with list = of candidate peers. If FIND is sent to remote peer, the requesting peer = hopes that the remote peer can feedback with list of candidate peers. = You may find that the encoding of FIND in both Tracker and Peer protocol = is the same, except for the <Stats> part, which can also be added = to FIND message in Peer protocol.

 

I understand your = intention here. However, it might be better to keep the focus out of = Tracker in this sense as you describe peer protocol. If you emphasize = the consistence, you could add the similarity for "FIND" or = "FIND_CHUNK" with tracker protocol. =


2. Section 3.2

The example gives a swarming = procedure. Does it possible for a peer to contact some remote peer = directly if the connection history is available in its local cache? as = it is common in most existing p2p applications (e.g. = Skype).
[Gu] Yes, = it=A1=AFs quite possible. Considering of this case, the first two steps = in Figure should be optional.

Agree.


3. Do you = consider using HTTPS after the first stage of connection? If you rely on = HTTP to communicate at the first place, for security reasons it might be = better to use HTTPS later. What do you think?

 

[Gu] = For security, HTTPs is better. However we need to consider the = additional workload introduced by HTTPs. I do not oppose HTTPs, = it=A1=AFs not bad for standards to make a perfect protocol, but we = should also take the implementation into consideration. We need to = answer: do users care so much about privacy when they use P2P streaming? = I hope we can hear more voice on this problem.


I agree that = HTTPS may introduce additional workload. Besides, using HTTPS here is = not only for taking care of users' privacy but securing the transmitted = data and related mechanisms. As we measured Joost, it relies on HTTPS to = transmit data after authenticating users. =

thanks

Jun

 

Thank you again for reviewing and = commenting.

Best = Regards

Jun




Hi= all,

Th= e authors have updated the peer protocol draft. You can find it at =

http:/= /tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02.

Any comments are = welcome.

Let=A1=AFs have some = discussion before meeting.

 

Best = Regards

Yingjie

 = 

 
 
_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing =
list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/ppsp





-- =

Dr. Jun =
Lei
Research =
Associate
 
Address:
Georg-August-Universitaet =
Goettingen
Institut fuer =
Informatik
Computer =
Networks Group
Goldschmidtstr. 7
37077 Goettingen 
 
 
Fax: =
+49 (551) 39-1 44 03
Tel: =
+49 (551) 39-1 35 78
 
Email: lei@informatik.uni-goett=
ingen.de




-- =

Dr. Jun =
Lei
Research =
Associate
 
Address:
Georg-August-Universitaet =
Goettingen
Institut fuer =
Informatik
Computer =
Networks Group
Goldschmidtstr. 7
37077 Goettingen 
 
 
Fax: =
+49 (551) 39-1 44 03
Tel: =
+49 (551) 39-1 35 78
 
Email: lei@informatik.uni-goett=
ingen.de
= --Boundary_(ID_Scvpq8KB3lcKemyXkYGUwg)-- From lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de Tue Jul 5 18:48:40 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F06221F87DB for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:48:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -94.953 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-94.953 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m8Ncmx75u0y2 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailer-b4.gwdg.de (mailer-b4.gwdg.de [134.76.10.28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635C221F85E8 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gwdexc-fe2.exc.top.gwdg.de ([134.76.26.172] helo=vsmtpgwdexc.exc.top.gwdg.de) by mailer.gwdg.de with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QeHED-0007jU-2K; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 03:48:37 +0200 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([60.184.40.234]) by vsmtpgwdexc.exc.top.gwdg.de over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 6 Jul 2011 03:48:34 +0200 Message-ID: <4E13BEED.3060609@informatik.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 03:48:29 +0200 From: jlei User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" References: <4E131F27.8000702@informatik.uni-goettingen.de> <004d01cc3b7c$0f86ae90$2e940bb0$@com> In-Reply-To: <004d01cc3b7c$0f86ae90$2e940bb0$@com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040303040106000903000903" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2011 01:48:35.0576 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1A03F80:01CC3B7E] X-Virus-Scanned: (clean) by exiscan+sophie Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIEZ3ZDogUmU6ICBOZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBQ?= =?gb2312?b?ZWVyIHByb3RvY29sLCBsb29raW5nIGZvcndhcmQgdG8geW91ciBjb21tZW50?= =?gb2312?b?cy4=?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 01:48:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040303040106000903000903 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Yingjie: HTTPs, I mean, is used to exchange information (after the first access control) to faciliate peer connection. Yes, it is necessary to define at least one mandatory transport protocol (in order to guarantee the data transfer). thanks for your reply! B.R. Jun > Hi Jun, > > Do you mean that we use HTTPs for data transferring? According to the > scope of peer protocol, the peer protocol provides mechanism for > transport protocol negotiation, but itself doesn’t define how to > transfer data. But I think we need to designate a mandatory transport > protocol. > > If you mean that HTTPs should be used for Peer connection, e.g. > property exchange and chunk availability exchange, I think it’s > reasonable to take it into account. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Best Regards > Gu Yingjie > > *发件人:*ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] *代表 *jlei > *发送时间:*2011年7月5日 乐乐22:27 > *收件人:*ppsp@ietf.org > *主题:*[ppsp] Fwd: Re: New version of Peer protocol, looking forward > to your comments. > > > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > > *Betreff: *** > > > > Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to your comments. > > *Datum: *** > > > > Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:24:52 +0200 > > *Von: *** > > > > jlei > > > *An: *** > > > > Yingjie Gu(yingjie) > > > > Hi, Yingjie: > > please see inline. > > Hi Jun, > > Thank you very much for your comments. > > Please find my reply in below. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Best Regards > Gu Yingjie > > *发件人:*jlei [mailto:lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de] > *发送时间:*2011年7月5日 乐乐14:57 > *收件人:*Yingjie Gu(yingjie) > *主题:*Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to your > comments. > > Hi, Yingjie, > > thanks for your effort. > > please find some comments below. > > 1. section 4.2.1.3.1 > > “FIND message is sent from a peer to remote peer or a Tracker. ” > > If FIND is sent from a peer to a Tracker, in which senario? as the > peer protocol is used to carry information to faciliate peering and > data exchange. > [Gu] I agree that my description is confusing. When I design the > Tracker and peer protocol, I hope they could be consistent, i.e. > similar encoding and some methods can be shared. FIND and FIND_CHUNK > are the shared methods. They have similar intention: to find the peers > that can provide specific content. If FIND is sent to Tracker, the > requesting peer hopes that Tracker can feedback with list of candidate > peers. If FIND is sent to remote peer, the requesting peer hopes that > the remote peer can feedback with list of candidate peers. You may > find that the encoding of FIND in both Tracker and Peer protocol is > the same, except for the part, which can also be added to FIND > message in Peer protocol. > > I understand your intention here. However, it might be better to keep > the focus out of Tracker in this sense as you describe peer protocol. > If you emphasize the consistence, you could add the similarity for > "FIND" or "FIND_CHUNK" with tracker protocol. > > > 2. Section 3.2 > > The example gives a swarming procedure. Does it possible for a peer to > contact some remote peer directly if the connection history is > available in its local cache? as it is common in most existing p2p > applications (e.g. Skype). > [Gu] Yes, it’s quite possible. Considering of this case, the first two > steps in Figure should be optional. > > Agree. > > > 3. Do you consider using HTTPS after the first stage of connection? If > you rely on HTTP to communicate at the first place, for security > reasons it might be better to use HTTPS later. What do you think? > > [Gu] For security, HTTPs is better. However we need to consider the > additional workload introduced by HTTPs. I do not oppose HTTPs, it’s > not bad for standards to make a perfect protocol, but we should also > take the implementation into consideration. We need to answer: do > users care so much about privacy when they use P2P streaming? I hope > we can hear more voice on this problem. > > > I agree that HTTPS may introduce additional workload. Besides, using > HTTPS here is not only for taking care of users' privacy but securing > the transmitted data and related mechanisms. As we measured Joost, it > relies on HTTPS to transmit data after authenticating users. > > thanks > > Jun > > Thank you again for reviewing and commenting. > > Best Regards > > Jun > > > > > Hi all, > > The authors have updated the peer protocol draft. You can find it at > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02. > > Any comments are welcome. > > Let’s have some discussion before meeting. > > Best Regards > > Yingjie > > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > > > > -- > Dr. Jun Lei > Research Associate > > Address: > Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen > Institut fuer Informatik > Computer Networks Group > Goldschmidtstr. 7 > 37077 Goettingen > > > Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03 > Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78 > > Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de > > > > > -- > Dr. Jun Lei > Research Associate > > Address: > Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen > Institut fuer Informatik > Computer Networks Group > Goldschmidtstr. 7 > 37077 Goettingen > > > Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03 > Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78 > > Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp -- Dr. Jun Lei Research Associate Address: Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen Institut fuer Informatik Computer Networks Group Goldschmidtstr. 7 37077 Goettingen Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03 Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78 Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de --------------040303040106000903000903 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Yingjie:

HTTPs, I mean, is used to exchange information (after the first access control) to faciliate peer connection.

Yes, it is necessary to define at least one mandatory transport protocol (in order to guarantee the data transfer).

thanks for your reply!

B.R.

Jun


Hi Jun,

Do you mean that we use HTTPs for data transferring? According to the scope of peer protocol, the peer protocol provides mechanism for transport protocol negotiation, but itself doesn’t define how to transfer data. But I think we need to designate a mandatory transport protocol.  

 

If you mean that HTTPs should be used for Peer connection, e.g. property exchange and chunk availability exchange,  I think it’s reasonable to take it into account.

 

 

 

Best Regards
Gu Yingjie

 

发件人: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 jlei
发送时间: 2011年7月5日 乐乐22:27
收件人: ppsp@ietf.org
主题: [ppsp] Fwd: Re: New version of Peer protocol, looking forward to your comments.

 



-------- Original-Nachricht --------

Betreff:

Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to your comments.

Datum:

Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:24:52 +0200

Von:

jlei <lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de>

An:

Yingjie Gu(yingjie) <guyingjie@huawei.com>



Hi, Yingjie:

please see inline.

Hi Jun,

Thank you very much for your comments.

Please find my reply in below.

Best Regards
Gu Yingjie

 

发件人: jlei [mailto:lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de]
发送时间: 2011年7月5日 乐乐14:57
收件人: Yingjie Gu(yingjie)
主题: Re: [ppsp] New version of Peer protocol,looking forward to your comments.

 

Hi, Yingjie,

thanks for your effort.

please find some comments below.

1. section 4.2.1.3.1

“FIND message is sent from a peer to remote peer or a Tracker. ”

If FIND is sent from a peer to a Tracker, in which senario? as the peer protocol is used to carry information to faciliate peering and data exchange.
[Gu] I agree that my description is confusing.  When I design the Tracker and peer protocol, I hope they could be  consistent, i.e. similar encoding and some methods can be shared. FIND and FIND_CHUNK are the shared methods. They have similar intention: to find the peers that can provide specific content. If FIND is sent to Tracker, the requesting peer hopes that Tracker can feedback with list of candidate peers. If FIND is sent to remote peer, the requesting peer hopes that the remote peer can feedback with list of candidate peers. You may find that the encoding of FIND in both Tracker and Peer protocol is the same, except for the <Stats> part, which can also be added to FIND message in Peer protocol.

 

I understand your intention here. However, it might be better to keep the focus out of Tracker in this sense as you describe peer protocol. If you emphasize the consistence, you could add the similarity for "FIND" or "FIND_CHUNK" with tracker protocol.


2. Section 3.2

The example gives a swarming procedure. Does it possible for a peer to contact some remote peer directly if the connection history is available in its local cache? as it is common in most existing p2p applications (e.g. Skype).
[Gu] Yes, it’s quite possible. Considering of this case, the first two steps in Figure should be optional.

Agree.


3. Do you consider using HTTPS after the first stage of connection? If you rely on HTTP to communicate at the first place, for security reasons it might be better to use HTTPS later. What do you think?

 

[Gu] For security, HTTPs is better. However we need to consider the additional workload introduced by HTTPs. I do not oppose HTTPs, it’s not bad for standards to make a perfect protocol, but we should also take the implementation into consideration. We need to answer: do users care so much about privacy when they use P2P streaming? I hope we can hear more voice on this problem.


I agree that HTTPS may introduce additional workload. Besides, using HTTPS here is not only for taking care of users' privacy but securing the transmitted data and related mechanisms. As we measured Joost, it relies on HTTPS to transmit data after authenticating users.

thanks

Jun

 

Thank you again for reviewing and commenting.

Best Regards

Jun




Hi all,

The authors have updated the peer protocol draft. You can find it at

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-ppsp-peer-protocol-02.

Any comments are welcome.

Let’s have some discussion before meeting.

 

Best Regards

Yingjie

 

 
 
_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp





-- 
Dr. Jun Lei
Research Associate
 
Address:
Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen
Institut fuer Informatik
Computer Networks Group
Goldschmidtstr. 7
37077 Goettingen 
 
 
Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03
Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78
 
Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de




-- 
Dr. Jun Lei
Research Associate
 
Address:
Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen
Institut fuer Informatik
Computer Networks Group
Goldschmidtstr. 7
37077 Goettingen 
 
 
Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03
Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78
 
Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp



-- 
Dr. Jun Lei
Research Associate

Address:
Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen
Institut fuer Informatik
Computer Networks Group
Goldschmidtstr. 7
37077 Goettingen 


Fax: +49 (551) 39-1 44 03
Tel: +49 (551) 39-1 35 78

Email: lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de
--------------040303040106000903000903-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Tue Jul 5 18:50:21 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11BE221F87E1 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.477 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.477 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.749, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kbRQhrcHBwAI for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (imss.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F4821F87DC for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E72A555; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 09:50:17 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by imss.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EB62A547; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 09:50:17 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf-PC ([10.2.0.102]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011070609501334-3390 ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 09:50:13 +0800 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 09:50:09 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" , "'jlei'" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <4E131F27.8000702@informatik.uni-goettingen.de> <004d01cc3b7c$0f86ae90$2e940bb0$@com> Message-ID: <201107060950094984229@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-06 09:50:13, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-06 09:50:16, Serialize complete at 2011-07-06 09:50:16 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon134086031424_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.8.0.1017-18242.003 X-TM-AS-Result: No--38.658-7.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--38.658-7.0-31-10;No--38.658-7.0-31-10 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No;No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Subject: Re: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIEZ3ZDogUmU6ICBOZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBQ?= =?gb2312?b?ZWVyIHByb3RvY29sLCBsb29raW5nIGZvcndhcmQgdG8geW91ciBj?= =?gb2312?b?b21tZW50cy4=?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 01:50:21 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon134086031424_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 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from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129E521F8679 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 23:18:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.303 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.303 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U7cs9hSjfzSq for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 23:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0CAD21F8677 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 23:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNW00FIKETTAT@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 14:17:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNW00BRNETSL4@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 14:17:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from z63316a ([10.138.41.47]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LNW00IC9ETOVM@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 14:17:52 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 14:17:48 +0800 From: Ning Zong In-reply-to: <201103310305432239505@chinamobile.com> To: 'zhangyunfei' , "'Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/'" , 'ext Martin Stiemerling' , ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <005301cc3ba4$6d944290$48bcc7b0$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ekbZO8MLKMCKP9mPizKgGg)" Content-language: zh-cn Thread-index: AcvvDZvvqsZB/NtPSeSG+b9IFEcwehMlsNhw References: <0LIT00I789RSB1@szxml11-in.huawei.com> <000e01cbee7d$75eb51f0$61c1f5d0$@chinamobile.com> <003401cbeeb5$1dcdd0f0$596972d0$@chinamobile.com> <201103310305432239505@chinamobile.com> Subject: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFFvUyBmb3IgUFBTUA==?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 06:18:11 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ekbZO8MLKMCKP9mPizKgGg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I am in favor of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED zhangyunfei =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 3:06 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin = Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf. org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 Hi Christian and all, My impression on the QoS related requirements is that we need = propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol should do = regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually include some of such requirements. So my suggestion is: Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means: e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker protocol, = like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help the tracker = return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the exact requirement = item). =20 BR Yunfei =20 =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei 2011-03-31 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-03-30 18:08:49 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; = ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for PPSP =20 As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec. =20 The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from the number of peers in the chains between content provider and displaying = peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could be horrible. End to = end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for sport games and setup = or channel switching times of 2 minutes is horrible as well. Especially if = you take into account that this service will compete with server/client = based streaming solutions. =20 There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance capacity of = the last peer. This information would have to be transported via = Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the possibility for the = request of alternative peer addresses, if the quality is not sufficient for the user.=20 =20 Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS requirements. =20 QoS.REQ-1:=20 Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the End-to-End = delay and the size of the receiving buffer.=20 =20 QoS.REQ-2:=20 End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of = live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end delay = of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.=20 =20 What do you think about? Christian =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --Boundary_(ID_ekbZO8MLKMCKP9mPizKgGg) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

I am in favor = of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED = zhangyunfei
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 3:06
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN = - DE/; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] QoS for = PPSP

 

= Hi Christian and all,

=     My impression on the QoS related requirements is that = we need propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol = should do regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually = include some of such requirements.

=     So my suggestion is:

= Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means:

=  e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker = protocol, like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help = the tracker return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the = exact requirement item).

=   

= BR

= Yunfei

 

 

zhangyunfei

2011-03-31

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4=A3=BA = 2011-03-30 18:08:49

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA ext = Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA =

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for = PPSP

 

As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec.

 

The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from = the number of peers in the chains between content provider and = displaying peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the = performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could = be horrible. End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for = sport games and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is = horrible as well. Especially if you take into account that this service = will compete with server/client based streaming solutions.

 

There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an = advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a = chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance = capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported = via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the = possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the = quality is not sufficient for the user.

 

Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS = requirements.

 

QoS.REQ-1:

Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the = End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer.

 

QoS.REQ-2:

End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in = case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end = to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.

 

What do you think about?

Christian

 

 

 

 

 

= --Boundary_(ID_ekbZO8MLKMCKP9mPizKgGg)-- From christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com Wed Jul 6 05:26:15 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20DA021F8511 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 05:26:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.148 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.148 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3yfsREBOpVWG for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 05:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D4A21F84D1 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 05:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p66CPvHh029236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:25:57 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC047.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.32.93]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p66CPs4g003008; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:25:57 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.24]) by DEMUEXC047.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:25:55 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC3BD7.DA10A7AC" Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:25:49 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <005301cc3ba4$6d944290$48bcc7b0$@com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP Thread-Index: AcvvDZvvqsZB/NtPSeSG+b9IFEcwehMlsNhwAAyMp2A= References: <0LIT00I789RSB1@szxml11-in.huawei.com> <000e01cbee7d$75eb51f0$61c1f5d0$@chinamobile.com> <003401cbeeb5$1dcdd0f0$596972d0$@chinamobile.com> <201103310305432239505@chinamobile.com> <005301cc3ba4$6d944290$48bcc7b0$@com> From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Ning Zong" , "zhangyunfei" , "ext Martin Stiemerling" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2011 12:25:55.0231 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA3C8AF0:01CC3BD7] Subject: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 12:26:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3BD7.DA10A7AC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What about: =20 Req: The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to end = delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content = requesting peer. =20 Req: The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, = available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing peer. =20 Best Regards Christian =20 =20 From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:18 AM To: 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Martin = Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 I am in favor of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED zhangyunfei =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 3:06 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin = Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 Hi Christian and all, My impression on the QoS related requirements is that we need = propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol should do = regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually include some of = such requirements. So my suggestion is: Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means: e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker protocol, = like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help the = tracker return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the exact = requirement item). =20 BR Yunfei =20 =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2011-03-31 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-03-30 18:08:49 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; = ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for PPSP =20 As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec. =20 The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from the = number of peers in the chains between content provider and displaying = peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the performance of = the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could be horrible. = End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for sport games = and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is horrible as well. = Especially if you take into account that this service will compete with = server/client based streaming solutions. =20 There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an = advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a = chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance = capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported = via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the = possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the = quality is not sufficient for the user.=20 =20 Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS requirements. =20 QoS.REQ-1:=20 Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the = End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer.=20 =20 QoS.REQ-2:=20 End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in = case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end = to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.=20 =20 What do you think about? Christian =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3BD7.DA10A7AC Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What about:

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to = end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content = requesting peer.

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, = available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing = peer.

 

Best Regards

Christian

 

 

From:= = ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, = July 06, 2011 8:18 AM
To: 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. = (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; = ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] = QoS for PPSP

 

I am in favor = of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED<= span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> = zhangyunfei
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: = 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 = 3:06
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2<= span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>: Re: [ppsp] = QoS for PPSP

 

= Hi Christian and all,

=     My impression on the QoS related requirements is that = we need propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol = should do regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually = include some of such requirements.

=     So my suggestion is:

= Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means:

=  e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker = protocol, like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help = the tracker return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the = exact requirement item).

=   

= BR

= Yunfei

 

 

zhangyunfei

2011-03-31

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3= =BA = 2011-03-30 18:08:49

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext = Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA =

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for = PPSP

 

As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec.

 

The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from = the number of peers in the chains between content provider and = displaying peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the = performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could = be horrible. End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for = sport games and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is = horrible as well. Especially if you take into account that this service = will compete with server/client based streaming solutions.

 

There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an = advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a = chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance = capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported = via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the = possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the = quality is not sufficient for the user.

 

Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS = requirements.

 

QoS.REQ-1:

Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the = End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer.

 

QoS.REQ-2:

End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in = case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end = to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.

 

What do you think about?

Christian

 

 

 

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3BD7.DA10A7AC-- From zongning@huawei.com Wed Jul 6 17:18:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56B221F8574 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 17:18:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.303 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.303 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0QgvyrZKPst3 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 17:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E1A921F8507 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 17:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNX003R8SV141@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 08:18:37 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNX00CNPSV0KU@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 08:18:37 +0800 (CST) Received: from z63316a ([10.138.41.47]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LNX00FIMSUWKR@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 08:18:36 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 08:18:31 +0800 From: Ning Zong In-reply-to: To: "'Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)'" , 'zhangyunfei' , 'ext Martin Stiemerling' , ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <002a01cc3c3b$67161820$35424860$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_2RehnVNkfbM4ZtRofE8WsA)" Content-language: zh-cn Thread-index: AcvvDZvvqsZB/NtPSeSG+b9IFEcwehMlsNhwAAyMp2AAGR+wgA== References: <0LIT00I789RSB1@szxml11-in.huawei.com> <000e01cbee7d$75eb51f0$61c1f5d0$@chinamobile.com> <003401cbeeb5$1dcdd0f0$596972d0$@chinamobile.com> <201103310305432239505@chinamobile.com> <005301cc3ba4$6d944290$48bcc7b0$@com> Subject: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFFvUyBmb3IgUFBTUA==?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 00:18:41 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_2RehnVNkfbM4ZtRofE8WsA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Christian =20 These look good to me. But the priority issue is mostly management = related. I will put these requirements to new revision. Thanks. =20 BR, Ning Zong =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C26=C8=D5 20:26 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 What about: =20 Req: The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content = requesting peer. =20 Req: The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing peer. =20 Best Regards Christian =20 =20 From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:18 AM To: 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 I am in favor of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED zhangyunfei =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 3:06 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin = Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf. org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 Hi Christian and all, My impression on the QoS related requirements is that we need = propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol should do = regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually include some of such requirements. So my suggestion is: Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means: e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker protocol, = like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help the tracker = return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the exact requirement = item). =20 BR Yunfei =20 =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei 2011-03-31 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-03-30 18:08:49 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; = ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for PPSP =20 As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec. =20 The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from the number of peers in the chains between content provider and displaying = peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could be horrible. End to = end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for sport games and setup = or channel switching times of 2 minutes is horrible as well. Especially if = you take into account that this service will compete with server/client = based streaming solutions. =20 There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance capacity of = the last peer. This information would have to be transported via = Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the possibility for the = request of alternative peer addresses, if the quality is not sufficient for the user.=20 =20 Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS requirements. =20 QoS.REQ-1:=20 Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the End-to-End = delay and the size of the receiving buffer.=20 =20 QoS.REQ-2:=20 End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of = live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end delay = of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.=20 =20 What do you think about? Christian =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --Boundary_(ID_2RehnVNkfbM4ZtRofE8WsA) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, = Christian

 

These look = good to me. But the priority issue is mostly management = related.

I will put = these requirements to new revision.

Thanks.

 

BR,=

Ning = Zong

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian = 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com] =
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C26=C8=D5 20:26
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; = ext Martin Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] QoS for = PPSP

 

What about:

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to = end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content = requesting peer.

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, = available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing = peer.

 

Best Regards

Christian

 

 

From:= ext Ning = Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, = 2011 8:18 AM
To: 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - = DE/Munich); 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: = =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] = QoS for PPSP

 

I am in favor = of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED = zhangyunfei
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: = 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 = 3:06
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: = Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: = [ppsp] QoS for PPSP

 

= Hi Christian and all,

=     My impression on the QoS related requirements is that = we need propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol = should do regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually = include some of such requirements.

=     So my suggestion is:

= Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means:

=  e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker = protocol, like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help = the tracker return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the = exact requirement item).

=   

= BR

= Yunfei

 

 

zhangyunfei

2011-03-31

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4=A3=BA = 2011-03-30 18:08:49

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA ext = Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA =

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for = PPSP

 

As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec.

 

The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from = the number of peers in the chains between content provider and = displaying peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the = performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could = be horrible. End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for = sport games and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is = horrible as well. Especially if you take into account that this service = will compete with server/client based streaming solutions.

 

There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an = advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a = chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance = capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported = via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the = possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the = quality is not sufficient for the user.

 

Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS = requirements.

 

QoS.REQ-1:

Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the = End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer.

 

QoS.REQ-2:

End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in = case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end = to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.

 

What do you think about?

Christian

 

 

 

 

 

= --Boundary_(ID_2RehnVNkfbM4ZtRofE8WsA)-- From lei@informatik.uni-goettingen.de Wed Jul 6 17:34:18 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FCA021F88C0 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 17:34:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QNkjQINLafJq for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 17:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailer-b4.gwdg.de (mailer-b4.gwdg.de [134.76.10.28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C006521F87E7 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 17:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gwdexc-fe1.exc.top.gwdg.de ([134.76.26.171] helo=vsmtpgwdexc.exc.top.gwdg.de) by mailer.gwdg.de with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QecXJ-0002Mx-MF; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 02:33:45 +0200 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([125.125.184.163]) by vsmtpgwdexc.exc.top.gwdg.de over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 7 Jul 2011 02:33:45 +0200 Message-ID: <4E14FEE1.6080701@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 02:33:37 +0200 From: jlei User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110424 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" References: <0LIT00I789RSB1@szxml11-in.huawei.com> <000e01cbee7d$75eb51f0$61c1f5d0$@chinamobile.com> <003401cbeeb5$1dcdd0f0$596972d0$@chinamobile.com> <201103310305432239505@chinamobile.com> <005301cc3ba4$6d944290$48bcc7b0$@com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030105030403050303090700" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2011 00:33:45.0499 (UTC) FILETIME=[87BE9EB0:01CC3C3D] X-Virus-Scanned: (clean) by exiscan+sophie Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 00:34:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030105030403050303090700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In order to support QoS, the tracker may distribute peers into certain groups according to selected criteria (e.g. media quality, available bandwidth, existing connections). Upon receiving the request, the tracker can easily generate peer-list according to the requirements. However, end to end delay or setup delay, may be measured for establishing an efficient connection between peers. > > What about: > > Req: > > The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to end > delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content > requesting peer. > > Req: > > The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, > available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing peer. > > Best Regards > > Christian > > *From:*ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:18 AM > *To:* 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext > Martin Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org > *Subject:* 答复: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP > > I am in favor of Yunfei’s proposal. > > *发件人**:*ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] *代 > 表***zhangyunfei > *发送时间**:*2011年3月31日3:06 > *收件人**:*Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin Stiemerling; > ppsp@ietf.org > *主题**:*Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP > > Hi Christian and all, > > My impression on the QoS related requirements is that we need propose > the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol should do > regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually include some > of such requirements. > > So my suggestion is: > > Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following > means: > > e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker protocol, > like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help the > tracker return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the > exact requirement item). > > BR > > Yunfei > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > zhangyunfei > > 2011-03-31 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *发件人：*Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) > > *发送时间：*2011-03-30 18:08:49 > > *收件人：*ext Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org > > *抄送：* > > *主题：*QoS for PPSP > > As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to > include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec. > > The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from > the number of peers in the chains between content provider and > displaying peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the > performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay > could be horrible. End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted > e.g. for sport games and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes > is horrible as well. Especially if you take into account that this > service will compete with server/client based streaming solutions. > > There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, > network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an > advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of > a chunk between source and peer or some information about the > performance capacity of the last peer. This information would have to > be transported via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must > provide the possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, > if the quality is not sufficient for the user. > > Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS requirements. > > /_QoS.REQ-1: _/ > > Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between > channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the > End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer. > > /_QoS.REQ-2: _/ > > End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and > content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in > case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, > end to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable. > > What do you think about? > > Christian > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp --------------030105030403050303090700 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In order to support QoS, the tracker may distribute peers into certain groups according to selected criteria (e.g. media quality, available bandwidth, existing connections). Upon receiving the request, the tracker can easily generate peer-list according to the requirements.

However, end to end delay or setup delay, may be measured for establishing an efficient connection between peers.

What about:

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content requesting peer.

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing peer.

 

Best Regards

Christian

 

 

From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:18 AM
To: 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: 答复: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP

 

I am in favor of Yunfei’s proposal.

 

发件人: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 zhangyunfei
发送时间: 2011年3月31日 3:06
收件人: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org
主题: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP

 

Hi Christian and all,

    My impression on the QoS related requirements is that we need propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol should do regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually include some of such requirements.

    So my suggestion is:

Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following means:

 e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker protocol, like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help the tracker return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the exact requirement item).

  

BR

Yunfei

 

 

zhangyunfei

2011-03-31

发件人： Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

发送时间： 2011-03-30 18:08:49

收件人： ext Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org

抄送：

主题： QoS for PPSP

 

As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec.

 

The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from the number of peers in the chains between content provider and displaying peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could be horrible. End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for sport games and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is horrible as well. Especially if you take into account that this service will compete with server/client based streaming solutions.

 

There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the quality is not sufficient for the user.

 

Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS requirements.

 

QoS.REQ-1:

Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer.

 

QoS.REQ-2:

End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.

 

What do you think about?

Christian

 

 

 

 

 


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--------------030105030403050303090700-- From christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com Wed Jul 6 22:48:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC33421F88B6 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 22:48:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.148 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.148 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3gg77lQkc-xF for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 22:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9FA21F88AB for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 22:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p675mWXX002699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 7 Jul 2011 07:48:32 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC047.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.32.93]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p675mT9W023589; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 07:48:29 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.24]) by DEMUEXC047.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 7 Jul 2011 07:48:28 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C69.7EB96C35" Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 07:48:25 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002a01cc3c3b$67161820$35424860$@com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP Thread-Index: AcvvDZvvqsZB/NtPSeSG+b9IFEcwehMlsNhwAAyMp2AAGR+wgAALXdsg References: <0LIT00I789RSB1@szxml11-in.huawei.com> <000e01cbee7d$75eb51f0$61c1f5d0$@chinamobile.com> <003401cbeeb5$1dcdd0f0$596972d0$@chinamobile.com> <201103310305432239505@chinamobile.com> <005301cc3ba4$6d944290$48bcc7b0$@com> <002a01cc3c3b$67161820$35424860$@com> From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Ning Zong" , "zhangyunfei" , "ext Martin Stiemerling" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2011 05:48:28.0168 (UTC) FILETIME=[7EB14080:01CC3C69] Subject: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 05:48:47 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C69.7EB96C35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ning Zong, =20 the priority issue should cover different user requests. For example, if = you want to see a popular movie, end-to-end delay is less important than = quality. If you want to watch sport events, end-to-end delay is very = important. The presentation should be as close to real-time as possible. = Therefore the user should be able to notify his quality priority choice = to the tracker. =20 What do you think about? =20 BR Christian =20 =20 From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 2:19 AM To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'zhangyunfei'; 'ext Martin = Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 Hi, Christian =20 These look good to me. But the priority issue is mostly management = related. I will put these requirements to new revision. Thanks. =20 BR, Ning Zong =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) = [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C26=C8=D5 20:26 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 What about: =20 Req: The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to end = delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content = requesting peer. =20 Req: The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, = available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing peer. =20 Best Regards Christian =20 =20 From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:18 AM To: 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Martin = Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 I am in favor of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED zhangyunfei =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 3:06 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin = Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 Hi Christian and all, My impression on the QoS related requirements is that we need = propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol should do = regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually include some of = such requirements. So my suggestion is: Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means: e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker protocol, = like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help the = tracker return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the exact = requirement item). =20 BR Yunfei =20 =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2011-03-31 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-03-30 18:08:49 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; = ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for PPSP =20 As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec. =20 The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from the = number of peers in the chains between content provider and displaying = peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the performance of = the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could be horrible. = End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for sport games = and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is horrible as well. = Especially if you take into account that this service will compete with = server/client based streaming solutions. =20 There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an = advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a = chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance = capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported = via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the = possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the = quality is not sufficient for the user.=20 =20 Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS requirements. =20 QoS.REQ-1:=20 Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the = End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer.=20 =20 QoS.REQ-2:=20 End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in = case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end = to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.=20 =20 What do you think about? Christian =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C69.7EB96C35 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ning Zong,

 

the priority issue should cover different user requests. For example, = if you want to see a popular movie, end-to-end delay is less important = than quality. If you want to watch sport events, end-to-end delay is = very important. The presentation should be as close to real-time as = possible. Therefore the user should be able to notify his quality = priority choice to the tracker.

 

What do you think about?

 

BR

Christian

 

 

From:= = ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, = July 07, 2011 2:19 AM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - = DE/Munich); 'zhangyunfei'; 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; = ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] = QoS for PPSP

 

Hi, = Christian

 

These look = good to me. But the priority issue is mostly management = related.

I will put = these requirements to new revision.

Thanks.

 

BR,=

Ning = Zong

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com] =
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: = 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C26=C8=D5 = 20:26
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning = Zong; zhangyunfei; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2<= span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>: RE: [ppsp] = QoS for PPSP

 

What about:

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to = end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content = requesting peer.

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, = available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing = peer.

 

Best Regards

Christian

 

 

From:= = ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, = July 06, 2011 8:18 AM
To: 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. = (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; = ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] = QoS for PPSP

 

I am in favor = of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED<= span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> = zhangyunfei
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: = 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 = 3:06
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2<= span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>: Re: [ppsp] = QoS for PPSP

 

= Hi Christian and all,

=     My impression on the QoS related requirements is that = we need propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol = should do regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually = include some of such requirements.

=     So my suggestion is:

= Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means:

=  e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker = protocol, like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help = the tracker return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the = exact requirement item).

=   

= BR

= Yunfei

 

 

zhangyunfei

2011-03-31

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3= =BA = 2011-03-30 18:08:49

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext = Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA =

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for = PPSP

 

As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec.

 

The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from = the number of peers in the chains between content provider and = displaying peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the = performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could = be horrible. End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for = sport games and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is = horrible as well. Especially if you take into account that this service = will compete with server/client based streaming solutions.

 

There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an = advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a = chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance = capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported = via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the = possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the = quality is not sufficient for the user.

 

Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS = requirements.

 

QoS.REQ-1:

Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the = End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer.

 

QoS.REQ-2:

End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in = case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end = to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.

 

What do you think about?

Christian

 

 

 

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C69.7EB96C35-- From zongning@huawei.com Wed Jul 6 23:00:36 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 073BC21F88B5 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:00:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.303 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.303 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n4Pda+d9BL6p for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:00:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D44321F8899 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNY00I7E8KJ74@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 13:57:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNY00ANR8KJLU@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 13:57:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from z63316a ([10.138.41.47]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LNY0035H8KGBH@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 13:57:55 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 13:57:52 +0800 From: Ning Zong In-reply-to: To: "'Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)'" , 'zhangyunfei' , 'ext Martin Stiemerling' , ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <007701cc3c6a$cf1a9ed0$6d4fdc70$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_g+Z/Eeu4emWt2c13JaX+aQ)" Content-language: zh-cn Thread-index: AcvvDZvvqsZB/NtPSeSG+b9IFEcwehMlsNhwAAyMp2AAGR+wgAALXdsgAABwBUA= References: <0LIT00I789RSB1@szxml11-in.huawei.com> <000e01cbee7d$75eb51f0$61c1f5d0$@chinamobile.com> <003401cbeeb5$1dcdd0f0$596972d0$@chinamobile.com> <201103310305432239505@chinamobile.com> <005301cc3ba4$6d944290$48bcc7b0$@com> <002a01cc3c3b$67161820$35424860$@com> Subject: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFFvUyBmb3IgUFBTUA==?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 06:00:36 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_g+Z/Eeu4emWt2c13JaX+aQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Christian, =20 Then the priority information can be expressed by different QoS = combinations (delay, quality), right? I think a single priority parameter = (1,2,3,=A1=AD) could be difficult to be understood by trackers - or need the help from management plane. =20 BR, Ning Zong =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C27=C8=D5 13:48 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 Hi Ning Zong, =20 the priority issue should cover different user requests. For example, if = you want to see a popular movie, end-to-end delay is less important than quality. If you want to watch sport events, end-to-end delay is very important. The presentation should be as close to real-time as possible. Therefore the user should be able to notify his quality priority choice = to the tracker. =20 What do you think about? =20 BR Christian =20 =20 From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 2:19 AM To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'zhangyunfei'; 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 Hi, Christian =20 These look good to me. But the priority issue is mostly management = related. I will put these requirements to new revision. Thanks. =20 BR, Ning Zong =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C26=C8=D5 20:26 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 What about: =20 Req: The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content = requesting peer. =20 Req: The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing peer. =20 Best Regards Christian =20 =20 From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:18 AM To: 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 I am in favor of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED zhangyunfei =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 3:06 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin = Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf. org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP =20 Hi Christian and all, My impression on the QoS related requirements is that we need = propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol should do = regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually include some of such requirements. So my suggestion is: Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means: e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker protocol, = like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help the tracker = return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the exact requirement = item). =20 BR Yunfei =20 =20 _____ =20 zhangyunfei 2011-03-31 _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-03-30 18:08:49 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; = ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for PPSP =20 As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec. =20 The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from the number of peers in the chains between content provider and displaying = peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could be horrible. End to = end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for sport games and setup = or channel switching times of 2 minutes is horrible as well. Especially if = you take into account that this service will compete with server/client = based streaming solutions. =20 There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance capacity of = the last peer. This information would have to be transported via = Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the possibility for the = request of alternative peer addresses, if the quality is not sufficient for the user.=20 =20 Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS requirements. =20 QoS.REQ-1:=20 Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the End-to-End = delay and the size of the receiving buffer.=20 =20 QoS.REQ-2:=20 End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of = live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end delay = of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.=20 =20 What do you think about? Christian =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --Boundary_(ID_g+Z/Eeu4emWt2c13JaX+aQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, = Christian,

 

Then the = priority information can be expressed by different QoS combinations = (delay, quality), right? I think a single priority parameter = (1,2,3,=A1=AD) could be difficult to be understood by trackers - or need = the help from management plane.

 

BR,=

Ning = Zong

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian = 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com] =
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C27=C8=D5 13:48
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; = ext Martin Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] QoS for = PPSP

 

Hi Ning Zong,

 

the priority issue should cover different user requests. For example, = if you want to see a popular movie, end-to-end delay is less important = than quality. If you want to watch sport events, end-to-end delay is = very important. The presentation should be as close to real-time as = possible. Therefore the user should be able to notify his quality = priority choice to the tracker.

 

What do you think about?

 

BR

Christian

 

 

From:= ext Ning = Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, = 2011 2:19 AM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); = 'zhangyunfei'; 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; = ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] = QoS for PPSP

 

Hi, = Christian

 

These look = good to me. But the priority issue is mostly management = related.

I will put = these requirements to new revision.

Thanks.

 

BR,=

Ning = Zong

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: = Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) = [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: = 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C26=C8=D5 = 20:26
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext = Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: = [ppsp] QoS for PPSP

 

What about:

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to = end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the content = requesting peer.

 

Req:

The tracker should be informed about QoS situation (e.g. performance, = available uplink bandwidth) of the content providing = peer.

 

Best Regards

Christian

 

 

From:= ext Ning = Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, = 2011 8:18 AM
To: 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - = DE/Munich); 'ext Martin Stiemerling'; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: = =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] = QoS for PPSP

 

I am in favor = of Yunfei=A1=AFs proposal.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: = ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED = zhangyunfei
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: = 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 = 3:06
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: = Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: = [ppsp] QoS for PPSP

 

= Hi Christian and all,

=     My impression on the QoS related requirements is that = we need propose the requirement that how the peer and tracker protocol = should do regarding QoS issue. The solutions you proposed actually = include some of such requirements.

=     So my suggestion is:

= Will it be more suitable to express the requirements in the following = means:

=  e.g.,The peer may include QoS request info in the tracker = protocol, like the video quality and maximum delay requirements to help = the tracker return suitable peerlist.(This is just an example, not the = exact requirement item).

=   

= BR

= Yunfei

 

 

zhangyunfei

2011-03-31

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4=A3=BA = 2011-03-30 18:08:49

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3= =BA ext = Martin Stiemerling; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA =

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA QoS for = PPSP

 

As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to = include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec.

 

The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from = the number of peers in the chains between content provider and = displaying peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the = performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could = be horrible. End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for = sport games and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is = horrible as well. Especially if you take into account that this service = will compete with server/client based streaming solutions.

 

There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, = network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an = advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a = chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance = capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported = via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the = possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the = quality is not sufficient for the user.

 

Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS = requirements.

 

QoS.REQ-1:

Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between = channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the = End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer.

 

QoS.REQ-2:

End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and = content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in = case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end = to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.

 

What do you think about?

Christian

 

 

 

 

 

= --Boundary_(ID_g+Z/Eeu4emWt2c13JaX+aQ)-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Wed Jul 6 23:36:29 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6DE321F86C6 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:36:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.983 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.983 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.632, BAYES_00=-2.599, MISSING_SUBJECT=1.762, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LQQ+5zKz6H7O for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (imss.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A50A621F8640 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7FAA3D6; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:36:20 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by imss.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C2CEA3B2; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:36:18 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf-PC ([10.2.0.55]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011070714254824-11057 ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:25:48 +0800 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:25:43 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Ning Zong" , "'Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE" , "'ext Martin Stiemerling'" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <0LIT00I789RSB1@szxml11-in.huawei.com> <000e01cbee7d$75eb51f0$61c1f5d0$@chinamobile.com> <003401cbeeb5$1dcdd0f0$596972d0$@chinamobile.com> <201103310305432239505@chinamobile.com> <005301cc3ba4$6d944290$48bcc7b0$@com> <002a01cc3c3b$67161820$35424860$@com> X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.8.0.1017-18244.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No-5.758-7.0-31-11 X-imss-scan-details: No-5.758-7.0-31-11;No-5.758-7.0-31-11 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No;No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Subject: [ppsp] (no subject) X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 06:36:30 -0000 @DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net> <007701cc3c6a$cf1a9ed0$6d4fdc70$@com> Subject: =?gb2312?B?UmU6ILTwuLQ6IFtwcHNwXSBRb1MgZm9yIFBQU1A=?= Message-ID: 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USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yPNGbnLtjzFg for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (imss.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C84021F8640 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83476A392; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:38:10 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by imss.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B9EA38D; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:38:10 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf-PC ([10.2.0.55]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011070714380682-11384 ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:38:06 +0800 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:38:01 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "zongning" , "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/" , "Martin Stiemerling" , "ppsp@ietf.org" Message-ID: <201107071438016825460@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-07 14:38:06, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-07 14:38:10, Serialize complete at 2011-07-07 14:38:10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon034450616078_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.8.0.1017-18244.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--4.398-7.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--4.398-7.0-31-10;No--4.398-7.0-31-10 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No;No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Subject: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 06:38:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon034450616078_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:52:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.073 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.073 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.925, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LiSwuJ870+J3 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 365A821F87C5 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p676pl52011329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 7 Jul 2011 08:51:47 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC048.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.32.94]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p676ph7I006578; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 08:51:47 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.24]) by DEMUEXC048.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 7 Jul 2011 08:51:46 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C72.56B3C588" Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 08:51:43 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <201107071438016825460@chinamobile.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ppsp]QoS for PPSP Thread-Index: Acw8cHdHX6WloP0STgWFD6EGkPcc9gAAGK0g References: <201107071438016825460@chinamobile.com> From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext zhangyunfei" , "zongning" , "Martin Stiemerling" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2011 06:51:46.0578 (UTC) FILETIME=[56B89F20:01CC3C72] Subject: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 06:52:02 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C72.56B3C588 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yunfei, I like your proposal. If the user is clear about his priorities, it is better to express this explicit. For example, I want - End-to-delay<5 seconds - quality=HDTV - priority is quality Now the tracker knows what to do: - If possible, the peer selection will take both quality goals into account. - If not, for this user end-to-end delay has minor priority for peer selection Can the tracker understand these roules? BR Christian From: ext zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:38 AM To: zongning; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); Martin Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: re:[ppsp]QoS for PPSP Is it better to say$B!)(J The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the QoS parameters on the content requesting peer's side. When I first read the sentense, I misunderstand to think that refers to the priorities(order)of the peers. BR Yunfei ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2011-07-07 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C72.56B3C588 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yunfei, I like your proposal. If the user is clear about his priorities, it is better to express this explicit. For example, I want

-          End-to-delay<5 seconds

-          quality=HDTV

-          priority is quality

 

Now the tracker knows what to do:

-          If possible, the peer selection will take both quality goals into account.

-      &n! bsp;   If not, for this user end-to-end delay has minor priority for peer selection

 

Can the tracker understand these roules?

 

BR

Christian

 

 

From: ext zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:38 AM
To: zongning; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); Martin Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: re:[ppsp]QoS for PPSP

 

Is it better to say$B!)(B

The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the QoS parameters on the content requesting peer's side.

When I first read the sentense, I misunderstand to think that refers to the priorities(order)of the peers.

BR

Yunfei

 

zhangyunfei

2011-07-07

------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C72.56B3C588-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Thu Jul 7 00:13:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD45021F88B7 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:13:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.34 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.34 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.233, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t2UVGKb612lv for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (imss.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7751121F88AC for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A3BDA3AE; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 15:13:11 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by imss.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DEDAA396; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 15:13:11 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf-PC ([10.2.0.55]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011070715130912-12344 ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 15:13:09 +0800 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 15:13:04 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/" , "zongning" , "Martin Stiemerling" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <201107071438016825460@chinamobile.com> Message-ID: <201107071513038260007@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-07 15:13:09, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-07 15:13:11, Serialize complete at 2011-07-07 15:13:11 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon875212631283_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.8.0.1017-18244.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--22.189-7.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--22.189-7.0-31-10;No--22.189-7.0-31-10 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No;No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Subject: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: 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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E048821F8889; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:46:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.468 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.468 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1jyRAXIA0go5; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9126021F8802; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:46:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.55 Message-ID: <20110707074638.6352.92864.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 00:46:38 -0700 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 00:52:02 -0700 Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03.txt X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 07:46:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Peer to Peer Streaming Protocol Worki= ng Group of the IETF. Title : P2P Streaming Protocol (PPSP) Requirements Author(s) : Ning Zong Yunfei Zhang Victor Pascual Carl Williams Lin Xiao Filename : draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2011-07-07 The objective of the PPSP work is to standardize the key signaling protocols that apply to tracker and peers in a Peer-to-Peer (P2P) streaming system. These protocols are called PPSP. This document enumerates the requirements for the PPSP, which should be considered when designing PPSP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03.txt From zongning@huawei.com Thu Jul 7 00:54:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DE421F88E7 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:54:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=4.642, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OibhsBTzBFjK for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E1221F88C3 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNY0035KDW0P3@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:52:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNY006S8DW05A@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:52:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from z63316a ([10.138.41.47]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LNY00L4RDVXO3@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:52:48 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:52:44 +0800 From: Ning Zong To: ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <00ac01cc3c7a$db70a110$9251e330$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: zh-cn Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: Acw8ek1z4Sghr4wMT9+9RE0iPPeXWwAAA/uA Subject: [ppsp] =?utf-8?b?6L2s5Y+ROiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9y?= =?utf-8?q?_draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 07:54:16 -0000 Hi, Folks, I have made a new revision of PPSP requirements I-D as follow: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03.txt Some major modifications: 1) Add a new security requirement (PPSP.SEC.REQ-9) for content integrity = check - thanks to Yunfei, Lingli Deng and Christian. 2) Add a new QoS requirement (PPSP.REQ-8) =E2=80=93 thanks to Yunfei and = Christian. 3) Add some text about CHUNK AVAILABILITY DIGEST to both tracker = protocol (PPSP.TP.REQ-6) and peer protocol (PPSP.PP.REQ-1/2/4) =E2=80=93 = thanks to Yunfei and Lin Xiao. Comments are highly appreciated. Thanks. BR, Ning Zong -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org = [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=887=E6=97=A5 = 15:47 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: zongning@huawei.com =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lin.xiao@nsn.com; zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com; = victor.pascual.avila@gmail.com; carlw@mcsr-labs.org; zongning@huawei.com =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for = draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03.txt A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03.txt has been successfully = submitted by Ning Zong and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs Revision: 03 Title: P2P Streaming Protocol (PPSP) Requirements Creation date: 2011-07-06 WG ID: ppsp Number of pages: 13 Abstract: The objective of the PPSP work is to standardize the key signaling protocols that apply to tracker and peers in a Peer-to-Peer (P2P) streaming system. These protocols are called PPSP. This document enumerates the requirements for the PPSP, which should be considered when designing PPSP. = =20 The IETF Secretariat From christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com Thu Jul 7 01:06:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F154321F885D for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 01:06:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.156 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.156 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.608, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7pklxt2lYy04 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 01:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB7E21F87AF for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 01:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6786U95001843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 7 Jul 2011 10:06:30 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC048.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.32.94]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6786SjP009721; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 10:06:29 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.24]) by DEMUEXC048.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 7 Jul 2011 10:06:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C7C.C4596C96" Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 10:06:24 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <201107071513038260007@chinamobile.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RE: [ppsp]QoS for PPSP Thread-Index: Acw8dVc3PRhGjNvTTHWvJNENHgj4WwABzG6Q References: <201107071438016825460@chinamobile.com> <201107071513038260007@chinamobile.com> From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext zhangyunfei" , "zongning" , "Martin Stiemerling" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2011 08:06:25.0326 (UTC) FILETIME=[C44354E0:01CC3C7C] Subject: Re: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 08:06:47 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C7C.C4596C96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Yunfei, I think we should support both. If the user has an opinion about his QoS = requirements, he should be able to express. If not we could try to = define an optimum ourselves. Br Christian =20 =20 =20 From: ext zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 9:13 AM To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); zongning; Martin = Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: RE: [ppsp]QoS for PPSP =20 Hi Christian, I think this is not a problem for tracker. My only concern is: Should = we adopt a "proactive"way like your proposal to select suitable peer to = meeting QoS requirement or a"reactive"way like H.264 SVC layered coding = to meet the best adaptation of current QoS condition or support both? =20 =20 BR Yunfei =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2011-07-07 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-07-07 14:51:57 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext zhangyunfei; zongning; Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA RE: [ppsp]QoS for PPSP =20 Yunfei, I like your proposal. If the user is clear about his priorities, = it is better to express this explicit. For example, I want - End-to-delay<5 seconds - quality=3DHDTV - priority is quality =20 Now the tracker knows what to do: - If possible, the peer selection will take both quality goals = into account. - &n! bsp; If not, for this user end-to-end delay has minor = priority for peer selection =20 Can the tracker understand these roules? =20 BR Christian =20 =20 From: ext zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:38 AM To: zongning; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); Martin = Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org Subject: re:[ppsp]QoS for PPSP =20 Is it better to say=A3=BF The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to end = delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the QoS parameters = on the content requesting peer's side. When I first read the sentense, I misunderstand to think that refers to = the priorities(order)of the peers. BR Yunfei =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2011-07-07 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C7C.C4596C96 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Yunfei,

I think we should support both. If the user has an opinion about his = QoS requirements, he should be able to express. If not we could try to = define an optimum ourselves.

Br

Christian

 

 

 

From:= ext = zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]
Sent: = Thursday, July 07, 2011 9:13 AM
To:= Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); zongning; Martin = Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: RE: [ppsp]QoS for = PPSP

 

= Hi Christian,

=    I think this is not a problem for tracker. My only concern = is: Should we adopt a "proactive"way like your proposal to = select suitable peer to meeting QoS requirement or = a"reactive"way like H.264 SVC layered coding to meet the best = adaptation of current QoS condition or support both?

 

 

= BR

= Yunfei

 

zhangyunfei

2011-07-07

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3= =BA = 2011-07-07 14:51:57

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext = zhangyunfei; zongning; Martin Stiemerling; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA =

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA RE: = [ppsp]QoS for PPSP

 

Yunfei, I like your proposal. If the user is clear about his = priorities, it is better to express this explicit. For example, I = want

-       &= nbsp;  End-to-delay<5 seconds=

-       &= nbsp;  quality=3DHDTV=

-       &= nbsp;  priority is quality=

 

Now the tracker knows what to do:

-       &= nbsp;  If possible, the peer selection will take both quality goals into = account.=

-      &n!= bsp;   If not, for this user end-to-end delay has minor priority for peer = selection=

 

Can the tracker understand these roules?

 

BR

Christian

 =

 

From:= = ext zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]
Sent: = Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:38 AM
To: zongning; Schmidt, = Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); Martin Stiemerling; = ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: re:[ppsp]QoS for = PPSP

 

= Is it better to say=A3=BF

The tracker should be informed about QoS requirements (e.g. end to = end delay, setup delay, media quality) and priorities of the QoS = parameters on the content requesting peer's = side.

When I first read the sentense, I misunderstand to think that refers = to the priorities(order)of the peers.

BR

Yunfei

 <= span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'color:#1F497D'>

zhangyunfei

2011-07-07

------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3C7C.C4596C96-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Thu Jul 7 01:08:29 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 231ED21F889D for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 01:08:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.373 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.373 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_83=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kzYd6kWSbJtP for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 01:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (imss.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A47D21F8594 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 01:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD04A3D6 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:08:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by imss.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF388A3D3 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:08:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf-PC ([10.2.0.55]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011070716082484-13892 ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:08:24 +0800 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:08:19 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <20110705093117.26942.22480.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <201107071608195736975@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-07 16:08:24, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-07 16:08:25, Serialize complete at 2011-07-07 16:08:25 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon768836863334_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.8.0.1017-18244.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--12.155-7.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--12.155-7.0-31-10;No--12.155-7.0-31-10 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No;No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Subject: Re: [ppsp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-02.txt X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 08:08:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon768836863334_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" SGkgYWxsLA0KICAgSSBoYXZlIG1hZGUgYSBuZXcgcmV2aXNpb24gb2YgUFBTUCByZXF1aXJlbWVu dHMgSS1EIGFzIGZvbGxvdzoNCmh0dHA6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pZC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLXBw 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzwvRElWPg0KPERJVj5wcHNwICZuYnNwO21haWxpbmcgJm5ic3A7 bGlzdDwvRElWPg0KPERJVj5wcHNwQGlldGYub3JnPC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vcHBzcDwvRElWPjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj48L0JPRFk+PC9I VE1MPg0K --=====003_Dragon768836863334_=====-- From guyingjie@huawei.com Fri Jul 8 02:48:22 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FAA21F850B for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 02:48:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h+QADqgwss+D for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 02:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA76021F88E3 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 02:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LO0008EYDWJCZ@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:48:20 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LO000GQ0DVTV6@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:48:19 +0800 (CST) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO szxeml201-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ACL10286; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:48:19 +0800 (CST) Received: from SZXEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.32) by szxeml201-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.39) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:48:08 +0800 Received: from g00107907 (10.138.41.104) by szxeml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:48:18 +0800 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:50:40 +0800 From: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" X-Originating-IP: [10.138.41.104] To: ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <005f01cc3d54$7f996bd0$7ecc4370$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_KTBtI7Y/L4kaAQ4/CSnMDw)" Content-language: zh-cn Thread-index: Acw9VH8whulZ5zGLSCq+dk81tdgEZw== X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: [ppsp] comments to I-D.li-ppsp-nat-traversal-02 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 09:48:22 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_KTBtI7Y/L4kaAQ4/CSnMDw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi lichun, I read your draft describing NAT Traversal for PPSP. It's a good collection of potential solutions for NAT Traversal. Some of my comments in below. If RELOAD-ICE or STUN/TURN server is chosen, we don't need to make revision to Tracker and peer protocol. If other methods are chosen, different optional proposals are required for each methods. Do you propose to add all these optional revision to Tracker protocol in order to support all potential NAT Traversal methods? In section 7.2.1, why not using Peer IP Add. ? You mentioned PPSP authentication. Currently, we introduced an authentication method by issuing a certificate to identify peers along with TLS. Any suggestions on authentication? And if Peers have been authenticated, could we reuse ICE without authentication? If yes, we don't need 7.5. _____ Best Regards Gu Yingjie --Boundary_(ID_KTBtI7Y/L4kaAQ4/CSnMDw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi= lichun,

I = read your draft describing NAT Traversal for = PPSP.

It= ’s a good collection of potential solutions for NAT = Traversal.

So= me of my comments in below.

If= RELOAD-ICE or STUN/TURN server is chosen, we don’t need to make = revision to Tracker and peer protocol.

If= other methods are chosen, different optional proposals are required for = each methods. Do you propose to add all these optional revision to = Tracker protocol in order to support all potential NAT Traversal = methods?

In= section 7.2.1, why not using Peer IP Add. ?

Yo= u mentioned PPSP authentication. Currently, we introduced an = authentication method by issuing a certificate to identify peers along = with TLS. Any suggestions on authentication?

An= d if Peers have been authenticated, could we reuse ICE without = authentication? If yes, we don’t need 7.5.

 

 

 

 

B= est Regards
Gu Yingjie

 

= --Boundary_(ID_KTBtI7Y/L4kaAQ4/CSnMDw)-- From peer2peer@gmail.com Fri Jul 8 11:49:38 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E6821F8A66 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:49:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r0au5gbPX-GR for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pv0-f172.google.com (mail-pv0-f172.google.com [74.125.83.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C02FF21F8A43 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pvh18 with SMTP id 18so1822053pvh.31 for ; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:49:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jHbL6yBK7XSwg15aVwNhsJ9oNN5nY2N4QS/wLbAIveI=; b=n/cQFtsE0nJxSLG/5WH4ys7ig5iPUvklMprhomMpLd5VEk8izy1wrANV/6r6tWu6CU FkSyhBbIw9YysyOZ+t1D5V/2wJ0Qz8jKJODIBKNUhd0uyFcuS5ym9nP2avXyfs83GtPN GVHNre8LVEx7SNsdwhFgk0isvf/KP9XTwR7kA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.231.11 with SMTP id d11mr426629wfh.35.1310150976364; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.112.18 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:49:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 20:49:36 +0200 Message-ID: From: Johan Pouwelse To: ppsp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [ppsp] P2P-Next contribution to IETF PPSP WG discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 18:49:38 -0000 Dear PPSP people, Hereby we would like to formally request a time slot at the upcoming IETF meeting to discuss our contribution of ideas plus running code to PPSP. Our prior contribution to PPSP, focussed on the peer protocol: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-grishchenko-ppsp-swift/ (updated so= on) Software: https://github.com/gritzko/swift In the role of scientific director I'm representing a large EU research project. This project called P2P-Next has considerable resources and involves 45 scientists/engineers at 19 organisations (BBC, STMicroelectronics, Pioneer, etc). We are planning to attend the upcoming meeting in Canada with two people. Over the past years we have: =A0- created a team of experts combining: theory (SIGCOMM '11 publication) and implementation (LEDBAT in Linux kernel prototype) =A0- running Open Source code of both live streaming and on-demand streamin= g =A0 =A0http://spectrum.ieee.org/apr08/6119 =A0- tested in the wild using various field trials incuding 1080p video =A0 =A0http://www.nytimes.com/external/gigaom/2009/12/05/05gigaom-bbc-and-p= 2p-next-test-hd-bittorrent-streaming-49840.html =A0- Integrates with websites, deployed and operational at Wikipedia.org =A0 =A0http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/09/wikipedia-now-distri= butes-its-videos-using-p2p.ars =A0- Our proposal is specifically crafted for low-power and mobile environm= ent. Operational on PCs, integrated in browsers (Windows,Mac,Linux), settop boxes, smartphones and tablets. We have what we believe is currently the smallest footprint P2P engine running on both Android and iPad (<100KByte). =A0 =A0http://torrentfreak.com/pioneers-live-bittorrent-streaming-device-08= 0911/ - conducted our initial streaming trial two years ago; startup streaming delay was measured to be 8.5 seconds. http://trial.p2p-next.org/stats/swarminfo.html =A0- deployed our streaming technology to the living room of 100+ LivingLab volunteers =A0 =A0http://livinglab.eu - ongoing work of Linux kernel module implementation of PPSP proposed Libswift code https://p2p-next.cs.pub.ro/redmine/issues/22 =A0- LEDBAT-compliant implementation inside PPSP core =A0 =A0http://doi.ieeecomputersociety.org/10.1109/AQTR.2010.5520827 - Designed and prototype of extensions for Layered Video Coding, "An architecture for distributing scalable content over peer-to-peer networks" www-itec.uni-klu.ac.at/publications/mmc/MMEDIA2010_p2p-next.pdf - Requirements doc states: "PPSP.PP.REQ-4: Streaming content availability update message among the peers MUST be supported by peer protocol." http://trac.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03#section-4.3 Binmap are specificaly designed to be a superior datastructure when compared to traditional bitmaps, used for signalling chunk availability: http://bouillon.math.usu.ru/articles/binmaps-alenex.pdf We have efficient code for this datastructure: https://github.com/the-zett/swift - We expanded our code with NAT traversal capability, based on an extensive NAT box measurement: Measurement report http://pds.twi.tudelft.nl/reports/2010/PDS-2010-007.p= df Integrated NAT puncturing code: https://github.com/gphalkes/swift - "PPSP.SEC.REQ-1: PPSP MUST support closed swarms, where the peers are authenticated." Design, Implementation and deployment of closed swarms with restricted access for only authenticated peers: http://www.livinglab.eu/test.html =A0- published all our software using LGPL license and authored numerous scientific papers =A0 =A0http://doi.ieeecomputersociety.org/10.1109/ISM.2009.16 =A0 =A0http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/P2P.2010.5569984 =A0 =A0https://publications.st.ewi.tudelft.nl/index.php?selectedPageId=3Dli= st&topic=3D10&layout=3Dbrief We are looking forward to any feedback you might have on the above and hope to be discussing PPSP matters with you in Quebec. Greetings from Holland, =A0Dr. J.A. Pouwelse From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Sun Jul 10 07:05:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BE021F86D1 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 07:05:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.175, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NLWSmcfqgLND for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 07:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (imss.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B4A21F86B4 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 07:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C3CA44E; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 22:05:46 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by imss.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CB08A44B; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 22:05:46 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf-PC ([10.1.5.3]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011071022053939-2853 ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 22:05:39 +0800 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 22:05:29 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Johan Pouwelse" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: Message-ID: <201107102205287318439@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-10 22:05:40, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-10 22:05:46, Serialize complete at 2011-07-10 22:05:46 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon567306872487_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.8.0.1017-18250.007 X-TM-AS-Result: No--38.230-7.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--38.230-7.0-31-10;No--38.230-7.0-31-10 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No;No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Subject: Re: [ppsp] P2P-Next contribution to IETF PPSP WG discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:05:51 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon567306872487_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" SGkgSm9oYW4gYW5kIFAyUC1OZXh0IGd1eXMsDQogICBGaXJpc3Qgb2YgYWxsIHdlbGNvbWUgdG8g am9pbiB1cyB0b2dldGhlciBmb3IgbWFraW5nIFBQU1AgY29tZSB0cnVlLiBJIGFtIHZlcnkgaW1w cmVzc2VkIGJ5IHRoZSBmcnVpdHMgUDJQLU5leHQgY29tbXVuaXR5IGJyaW5ncyBvdXQsZXNwLiB0 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YnNwO2ZlZWRiYWNrIA0KJm5ic3A7eW91ICZuYnNwO21pZ2h0ICZuYnNwO2hhdmUgJm5ic3A7b24g Jm5ic3A7dGhlICZuYnNwO2Fib3ZlICZuYnNwO2FuZDwvRElWPg0KPERJVj5ob3BlICZuYnNwO3Rv ICZuYnNwO2JlICZuYnNwO2Rpc2N1c3NpbmcgJm5ic3A7UFBTUCAmbmJzcDttYXR0ZXJzICZuYnNw O3dpdGggDQombmJzcDt5b3UgJm5ic3A7aW4gJm5ic3A7UXVlYmVjLjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJz cDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+R3JlZXRpbmdzICZuYnNwO2Zyb20gJm5ic3A7SG9sbGFuZCw8L0RJVj4N CjxESVY+oERyLiAmbmJzcDtKLkEuICZuYnNwO1BvdXdlbHNlPC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPl9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fPC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPnBwc3Ag Jm5ic3A7bWFpbGluZyAmbmJzcDtsaXN0PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPnBwc3BAaWV0Zi5vcmc8L0RJVj4N CjxESVY+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9wcHNwPC9ESVY+PC9G T05UPjwvRElWPjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo= --=====003_Dragon567306872487_=====-- From a.bakker@vu.nl Mon Jul 11 07:47:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1502C21F8C6B for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 07:47:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xDnKvxZal60h for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 07:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailin.vu.nl (mailin.vu.nl [130.37.164.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FEEE21F8C68 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 07:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PEXHB011B.vu.local (130.37.236.65) by mailin.vu.nl (130.37.164.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.218.12; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 16:47:45 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.105] (130.37.238.20) by mails.vu.nl (130.37.236.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.218.12; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 16:47:47 +0200 Message-ID: <4E1B0D45.1020008@cs.vu.nl> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 16:48:37 +0200 From: Arno Bakker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [130.37.238.20] Subject: Re: [ppsp] P2P-Next contribution to IETF PPSP WG discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: arno@cs.vu.nl List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:49:31 -0000 Hi all we've just uploaded the updated swift draft with a new section on RTP and HTTP integration. It is available as indicated by Johan at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-grishchenko-ppsp-swift/ As Victor Grischenko has unfortunately left the P2P-Next project I'll be the corresponding author. Looking forward to meeting you in Canada, Arno Bakker working at Delft University of Technology on P2P-Next From li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Mon Jul 11 18:15:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0F111E832C for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:15:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.838 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.838 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wGgaBeUciOP9 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C703911E8213 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 13132790912505; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:09:07 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.20] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 17394.790912505; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:14:46 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse01.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p6C1EnNX013365 for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:14:49 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from li.lichun1@zte.com.cn) To: ppsp@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: FAC6D8E5:AA83A61B-482578CB:0003A62E; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 Message-ID: From: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:14:46 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-07-12 09:14:49, Serialize complete at 2011-07-12 09:14:49 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0006EA54482578CB_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn p6C1EnNX013365 Subject: [ppsp] PPSP NAT traversal draft updated X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 01:15:03 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0006EA54482578CB_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi, all The updated NAT traversal draft can be accessed at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ppsp-nat-traversal-02 The major change of this version is detailing extensions to PPSP. Comments are welcome. BR Lichun -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system. --=_alternative 0006EA54482578CB_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi, all

The updated NAT traversal draft can be accessed at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ppsp-nat-traversal-02
The major change of this version is detailing extensions to PPSP.

Comments are welcome.



BR
Lichun 


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--=_alternative 0006EA54482578CB_=-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Tue Jul 12 00:55:27 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38DF321F8F47 for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 00:55:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.943 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.943 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.680, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7vDJhCKh7hZt for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 00:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (imss.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A66021F8F3F for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 00:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1492A56D; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 15:22:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by imss.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94288A564; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 15:22:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf-PC ([10.2.0.113]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011071215220053-12203 ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 15:22:00 +0800 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 15:21:49 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <201107121422179431663@chinamobile.com> Message-ID: <201107121521496884516@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-12 15:22:00, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-12 15:22:03, Serialize complete at 2011-07-12 15:22:03 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon628267532288_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.8.0.1017-18254.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--8.506-7.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--8.506-7.0-31-10;No--8.506-7.0-31-10 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No;No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Subject: [ppsp] PPSP draft agenda in IETF81 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:55:27 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon628267532288_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Hi folks, The draft agenda of PPSP session in IETF 81 can be found at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/81/agenda/ppsp.txt. Please let Martin and me know if there are any missing requests. BR Yunfei zhangyunfei 2011-07-12 --=====003_Dragon628267532288_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWdi MjMxMiIgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50LVR5cGU+DQo8TUVUQSBuYW1lPUdFTkVSQVRPUiBjb250 ZW50PSJNU0hUTUwgOS4wMC44MTEyLjE2NDMwIj4NCjxTVFlMRT4NCjwhLS0NCiAvKiBGb250IERl ZmluaXRpb25zICovDQogQGZvbnQtZmFjZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseTrLzszlOw0KCXBhbm9zZS0x OjIgMSA2IDAgMyAxIDEgMSAxIDE7fQ0KQGZvbnQtZmFjZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseTpWZXJkYW5h Ow0KCXBhbm9zZS0xOjIgMTEgNiA0IDMgNSA0IDQgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1m YW1pbHk6IlxAy87M5SI7DQoJcGFub3NlLTE6MiAxIDYgMCAzIDEgMSAxIDEgMTt9DQogLyogU3R5 bGUgRGVmaW5pdGlvbnMgKi8NCiBwLk1zb05vcm1hbCwgbGkuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBkaXYuTXNvTm9y bWFsDQoJe21hcmdpbjowY207DQoJbWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0Ow0KCXRleHQtYWxpZ246 anVzdGlmeTsNCgl0ZXh0LWp1c3RpZnk6aW50ZXItaWRlb2dyYXBoOw0KCWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41 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--=====003_Dragon628267532288_=====-- From li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Wed Jul 13 18:07:23 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C381F0C60 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:07:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.736 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.736 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p55ZfCwMxrXO for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5671F0C41 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 13132790912505; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:01:21 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.20] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 31725.2836501774; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:06:58 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse01.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p6E174og016269; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:07:04 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from li.lichun1@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <005f01cc3d54$7f996bd0$7ecc4370$@com> To: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: E159E3CB:28F3C7AB-482578CB:00070DAB; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 Message-ID: From: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:06:58 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-07-14 09:07:05, Serialize complete at 2011-07-14 09:07:05 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00063620482578CD_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn p6E174og016269 Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] comments to I-D.li-ppsp-nat-traversal-02 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 01:07:23 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00063620482578CD_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIFlpbmdqaWUNCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUuDQoNCkJSDQpMaWNodW4NCg0KDQoiWWlu Z2ppZSBHdSh5aW5namllKSIgPGd1eWluZ2ppZUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPiDQtNPaIDIwMTEtMDctMDgg MTc6NTA6NDA6DQoNCj4gSGkgbGljaHVuLA0KPiBJIHJlYWQgeW91ciBkcmFmdCBkZXNjcmliaW5n IE5BVCBUcmF2ZXJzYWwgZm9yIFBQU1AuDQo+IEl0oa9zIGEgZ29vZCBjb2xsZWN0aW9uIG9mIHBv dGVudGlhbCBzb2x1dGlvbnMgZm9yIE5BVCBUcmF2ZXJzYWwuDQo+IFNvbWUgb2YgbXkgY29tbWVu dHMgaW4gYmVsb3cuDQo+IElmIFJFTE9BRC1JQ0Ugb3IgU1RVTi9UVVJOIHNlcnZlciBpcyBjaG9z 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-0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZUFh+rd6UZCV for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate4.ebu.ch (mailgate4.ebu.ch [193.43.93.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0161221F8770 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([10.73.222.238]) by mailgate4.ebu.ch with ESMTP with TLS id 32QNQH1.43039070; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:41:13 +0200 Received: from GVAMAIL.gva.ebu.ch ([169.254.2.117]) by gvashc1drs.gva.ebu.ch ([10.73.222.238]) with mapi; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:41:14 +0200 From: "Thomas, Yvonne" To: "'ppsp@ietf.org'" Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:41:12 +0200 Thread-Topic: Re: [ppsp] P2P-Next contribution to IETF PPSP WG discussion Thread-Index: AcxB+WfHJQeq6zshRH+WuEKJyi3hbg== Message-ID: <7300175BB3DF954C8DD77BF6BC53492E010D22963CAA@GVAMAIL.gva.ebu.ch> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:51:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [ppsp] P2P-Next contribution to IETF PPSP WG discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 07:42:54 -0000 Dear ladies and gentlemen, The EBU is one of the 19 involved organisations in the P2P next EU research= project. So we support the upcoming activities from Mr. Pouwelse and his colleague i= n the IETF. Our organisation is aware of P2P-Next technology and will evaluate it for d= eployment within our organisation. In some parts we already started to use it, but are still more or less on t= rials. Therefore we would like to follow up the future work of the IETF and are cu= rious on the results of the next meeting. Best regards, Yvonne Thomas Yvonne Thomas Project Engineer EBU TECHNICAL Department of Technology & Development European Broadcasting Union, www.ebu.ch, tech.ebu.ch=20 L'Ancienne-Route 17A, Case postale 45 CH-1218 Grand Saconnex, Geneva, Switzerland=20 Tel:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +41 22 717 2704 Fax: +41 22 747 4704 e-mail:=A0=A0=A0 thomas@ebu.ch Assistant: Elisabeth Ecoffey Tel:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +41 22 717 2723 Fax:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +41 22 747 4723 e-mail:=A0=A0=A0=A0ecoffey@ebu.ch From guyingjie@huawei.com Thu Jul 14 02:08:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF73121F8AB0 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 02:08:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.656 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.353, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dla-XQDo1huP for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 02:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B1221F8A7E for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 02:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LOB009Y8G173N@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:07:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LOB00989G17PR@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:07:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO szxeml206-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ACF33525; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:07:54 +0800 (CST) Received: from SZXEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.95) by szxeml206-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:07:46 +0800 Received: from g00107907 (10.138.41.104) by szxeml408-hub.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:07:54 +0800 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:10:26 +0800 From: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" In-reply-to: X-Originating-IP: [10.138.41.104] To: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Message-id: <005f01cc4205$df31bbf0$9d9533d0$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_r8KUIqg3SI1DYw9i7qfAZw)" Content-language: zh-cn Thread-index: AcxBwmTy1EAGWxdmRlOpZhXwoz6K1QAQwMbw X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected References: <005f01cc3d54$7f996bd0$7ecc4370$@com> Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogY29tbWVudHMgdG8gSS1ELmxpLXBwc3AtbmF0?= =?gb2312?b?LXRyYXZlcnNhbC0wMg==?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:08:47 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_r8KUIqg3SI1DYw9i7qfAZw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lichun, See inline please. =20 _____ =20 Best Regards Gu Yingjie =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn [mailto:li.lichun1@zte.com.cn] = =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C214=C8=D5 =C0=D6=C0=D69:07 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Yingjie Gu(yingjie) =B3=AD=CB=CD: ppsp@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: re: comments to I-D.li-ppsp-nat-traversal-02 =20 Hi, Yingjie=20 Please see inline. BR=20 Lichun "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" =D0=B4=D3=DA 2011-07-08 = 17:50:40: > Hi lichun,=20 > I read your draft describing NAT Traversal for PPSP.=20 > It=A1=AFs a good collection of potential solutions for NAT Traversal.=20 > Some of my comments in below.=20 > If RELOAD-ICE or STUN/TURN server is chosen, we don=A1=AFt need to = make=20 > revision to Tracker and peer protocol.=20 > If other methods are chosen, different optional proposals are=20 > required for each methods. Do you propose to add all these optional=20 > revision to Tracker protocol in order to support all potential NAT=20 > Traversal methods?=20 These revisions are either mandatory or optional for PPSP-ICE.=20 The decision of supporting NAT traversal or not and choosing which NAT traversal=20 solution should be left to implementation.=20 If PPSP-ICE is chosen, implementing/using optional revisions or not = should also be left to implementation.=20 I can=A1=AFt understand. If all is left to implementation, then I guess = your draft is just informal. And we don=A1=AFt need to make any revision to = current protocol to support NAT traversal.=20 > In section 7.2.1, why not using Peer IP Add. ?=20 Source peer doesn't know and doesn't need to know the destination peer's address that can be reached by proxy peer.=20 Source peer can know the IP address by peerlist. Because we can carry = both IP add and peer ID in peerlist, right? > You mentioned PPSP authentication. Currently, we introduced an=20 > authentication method by issuing a certificate to identify peers=20 > along with TLS. Any suggestions on authentication?=20 I think TLS is good. HTTPS is widely deployed.=20 > And if Peers have been authenticated, could we reuse ICE without=20 > authentication? If yes, we don=A1=AFt need 7.5.=20 ICE connectivity checks use STUN/TURN protocol, which can not be = protected by PPSP protocol's authentication.=20 ICE parameters also include host/reflexive/relayed address. Even ICE is = not used, MediaAttach still need to exchange SDP without ICE parameters.=20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > Best Regards > Gu Yingjie=20 > =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail = is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy = and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to = others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are = addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of = the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam = system. --Boundary_(ID_r8KUIqg3SI1DYw9i7qfAZw) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Lichun,

See inline = please.

 

=

B= est Regards
Gu Yingjie

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn = [mailto:li.lichun1@zte.com.cn]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C214=C8=D5 =C0=D6=C0=D69:07
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Yingjie = Gu(yingjie)
=B3=AD=CB=CD: = ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: re: comments to = I-D.li-ppsp-nat-traversal-02

 


Hi, = Yingjie

Please = see inline.

BR
Lichun


"Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" = <guyingjie@huawei.com> =D0=B4=D3=DA 2011-07-08 = 17:50:40:

> Hi lichun,
> I read your draft describing NAT = Traversal for PPSP.
> It=A1=AFs a good collection = of potential solutions for NAT Traversal. =
> Some = of my comments in below. =
> If = RELOAD-ICE or STUN/TURN server is chosen, we don=A1=AFt need to make =
> = revision to Tracker and peer protocol. =
> If = other methods are chosen, different optional proposals are =
> = required for each methods. Do you propose to add all these optional =
> revision to Tracker protocol in order to support all = potential NAT
> Traversal methods?

These revisions are either mandatory or = optional for PPSP-ICE. =
The = decision of supporting NAT traversal or not and choosing which NAT = traversal
solution should be left to = implementation.
If PPSP-ICE is chosen, = implementing/using optional revisions or not should also be left to = implementation.

I can=A1=AFt = understand. If all is left to implementation, then I guess your draft is = just informal. And we don=A1=AFt need to make any revision to current = protocol to support NAT traversal.


> In section 7.2.1, why not using Peer IP = Add. ?

Source peer doesn't know and = doesn't need to know the destination peer's address that can be reached = by proxy peer.

Source peer can = know the IP address by peerlist. Because we can carry both IP add and = peer ID in peerlist, right?



> You mentioned PPSP = authentication. Currently, we introduced an
> authentication = method by issuing a certificate to identify peers
> = along with TLS. Any suggestions on authentication?

I think TLS is good. HTTPS is widely = deployed.

> And if Peers have been = authenticated, could we reuse ICE without
> authentication? If yes, we = don=A1=AFt need 7.5. =

ICE = connectivity checks use STUN/TURN protocol, which can not be protected = by PPSP protocol's authentication. =
ICE = parameters also include host/reflexive/relayed address. Even ICE is not = used, MediaAttach still need to exchange SDP without ICE = parameters.

>  
>   =
> =
> = Best Regards
> Gu Yingjie =
> =   

 
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= --Boundary_(ID_r8KUIqg3SI1DYw9i7qfAZw)-- From li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Sun Jul 17 18:21:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 782E521F8541 for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 18:21:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.736 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.736 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2e2gKOH5zS-0 for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 18:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx5.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E731521F8879 for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 18:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C033421F850E for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 18:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B813FA445; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:46:13 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by imss.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BDDDA1CD; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:46:13 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf-PC ([10.2.0.203]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011071809461233-2867 ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:46:12 +0800 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:45:55 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Thomas, Yvonne" , "'ppsp@ietf.org'" References: <7300175BB3DF954C8DD77BF6BC53492E010D22963CAA@GVAMAIL.gva.ebu.ch> Message-ID: <201107180945548997994@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-18 09:46:12, Serialize by Router on 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SVY+RmF4OqCgoKCgoD8rNDEgJm5ic3A7MjIgJm5ic3A7NzQ3ICZuYnNwOzQ3MjM8L0RJVj4NCjxE SVY+ZS1tYWlsOqCgoKBlY29mZmV5QGVidS5jaDwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxE SVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxE SVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fPC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPnBwc3AgJm5ic3A7bWFpbGluZyAmbmJzcDtsaXN0PC9E SVY+DQo8RElWPnBwc3BAaWV0Zi5vcmc8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9wcHNwPC9ESVY+PC9GT05UPjwvRElWPjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo= --=====003_Dragon615215428451_=====-- From mies@irt.de Mon Jul 18 23:54:12 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E1221F8661 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:54:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.351 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.351 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rXqaJpVK7lMS for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.irt.de (zit-18.irt.de [193.96.226.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526B821F865B for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.irt.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53231E20A; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:54:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at irt.de Received: from mail1.irt.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.irt.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pBETNN2X3qdL; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:53:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from auth.irt.de (webby.irt.de [193.96.226.140]) by mail1.irt.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D1336DF45; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:53:55 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:53:55 +0200 From: mies To: Message-ID: <4285c64bb0f435492c2cc04485a12fa2@irt.de> X-Sender: mies@irt.de User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.3.1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:58:50 -0700 Subject: [ppsp] P2P-Next contribution to IETF PPSP WG discussion X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 06:56:01 -0000 Dear IETF people, IRT, being a partner in the EU-co-funded P2P-Next project, is closely monitoring the developments by Johan Pouwelse and his team in WP4 of P2P-Next. IRT has been evaluating NextShare in its laboratory, to verify the suitability of this technology from a broadcaster's point of view. We obviously have a specific interest to this respect in the use case of live-streaming. An open standard for P2P-based media distribution, supported by a large community such as IETF, is welcomed by us. With my best regards Ronald Mies ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ronald Mies Institut f眉r Rundfunktechnik GmbH Floriansm眉hlstrasse 60 D-80939 M眉nchen Germany Tel: +49 89 32399 503 Fax: +49 89 32399 454 E-Mail: ronald.mies@irt.de Internet: www.irt.de Forschungs- und Entwicklungsinstitut von ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF und SRG/SSR GmbH Gesch盲ftsf眉hrer: Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns Registergericht M眉nchen HRB 5191 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Thu Jul 21 00:46:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5221921F8569 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 00:46:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.181, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JKKLAS0xPuL3 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 00:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (imss.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C118F21F8555 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 00:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imss.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D1FA6B5; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:46:39 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by imss.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B347A690; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:46:39 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf-PC ([10.2.0.63]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011072115463359-12510 ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:46:33 +0800 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:46:12 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "ppsp@ietf.org" Message-ID: <201107211546119005645@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-21 15:46:33, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-21 15:46:39, Serialize complete at 2011-07-21 15:46:39 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon848617541136_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.8.0.1017-18274.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--3.413-7.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--3.413-7.0-31-10;No--3.413-7.0-31-10 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No;No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Subject: [ppsp] Please send the slides for PPSP WG X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:46:47 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon848617541136_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Hi all, Please send the slides for PPSP WG in IETF 81 to Martin and me before Sunday night (20:00,local time). The session will be held on Room 208 AB at 1300 on Monday. See you in Quebec. BR Yunfei zhangyunfei 2011-07-21 --=====003_Dragon848617541136_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Hi all,
   Please send the slides for PPSP WG in IETF 81 to Martin and me before Sunday night (20:00,local time). The session will be held on Room 208 AB at 1300 on Monday. See you in Quebec.
 
BR
Yunfei
  
 
zhangyunfei
2011-07-21
 --=====003_Dragon848617541136_=====-- From p2p.nve.2011@gmail.com Sat Jul 23 01:06:18 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD6C21F85CE; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 01:06:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v12zpvX0oBvD; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 01:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7501F21F84FE; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 01:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yxp4 with SMTP id 4so1981933yxp.31 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 01:06:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=8ZKHcX719/YoCAsY1ZUDa4TS3GP0FosW0oY5GRNWUiI=; b=bQERUTDAVmYKhrL8/aOpQ+fGyurbqs6RqF8yW3Z1iaqH+mZXn0ZcR9quRoFyyjpkxT apBe8OC6jRB9bl5pcwxa6ODZ27gOR7KeV0VuqVUju5PRUpeNvq2IsYgxJ01RbBi7jPVU TOMJzgWMsYENu8OlKICDzgRDXGWRhU3cz6p5M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.200.2 with SMTP id x2mr589188wff.125.1311408375180; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 01:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.143.82.9 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 01:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 16:06:15 +0800 Message-ID: From: =?Big5?B?qVCpd71u?= To: ppsp@ietf.org, sam@irtf.org, p2p@ogf.org, p2psip@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2e2465bac8504a8b80e2d Subject: [ppsp] [CFP] P2PNVE 2011 (Deadline: Aug. 20, 2011) X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:18:29 -0000 --000e0cd2e2465bac8504a8b80e2d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 CFP ======================================================================== The 5th International Workshop on Peer-to-Peer Networked Virtual Environments (P2P-NVE 2011) in conjunction with The 17th International Conference on Parallel and Distributed Systems (ICPADS 2011) December 7-9, 2011 Tainan, Taiwan http://acnlab.csie.ncu.edu.tw/P2PNVE2011/ ======================================================================== PURPOSE AND SCOPE Peer-to-peer (P2P) is a computing paradigm based on self-organizing network overlays, in which participating entities play symmetric roles as both servers and clients for accomplish common goals. Compared with the traditional client/server (C/S) paradigm, the P2P paradigm is not vulnerable to a single point of failure and has better scalability and lower installation and management cost. It has been successfully applied to many applications, such as data sharing, storage sharing, bandwidth sharing, collaborative computation, and so on. Many research studies have been devoted to developing efficient, flexible, and secure P2P systems. They call for a workshop to provide a forum for researchers to exchange their ideas about state-of-the-art P2P technologies. Recently, some studies try to apply the P2P paradigm to network virtual environments (NVEs), which is also known as distributed virtual environment (DVEs) or collaborative virtual environment (CVEs), to increase NVE scalability and to reduce NVE management and deployment costs. An NVE is a computer-generated virtual world where multiple users can assume virtual representatives (or avatars) to concurrently interact with each other via networked links. Examples of NVEs include early DARPA SIMNET and DIS systems as well as currently booming Massively Multiplayer Online Games (MMOGs). Typical examples of studies on P2P NVEs are P2P voice chatting, P2P 3D streaming, P2P game state management, and so on. In spite of the success of the studies, we need more studies about state consistency control, persistent data storage, multimedia data dissemination, cheat-prevention, topology mismatching, and virtual world interoperability to construct NVEs of better performance. The 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th International Workshop on Peer-to-Peer Networked Virtual Environments were held in conjunction with the 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th International Conference on Parallel and Distributed Systems in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 respectively. To adhere to the theme of P2P-NVE workshops, the theme of P2P-NVE 2011 is to solicit original and previously unpublished new ideas on general P2P schemes as well as on the design and realization of P2P NVEs. The workshop aims to facilitate discussions and idea exchanges by both academics and practitioners. Authors are invited to submit an electronic version of original, unpublished manuscripts, not to exceed 8 double-columned, single-spaced pages, to the workshop. Submitted papers should be in accordance with IEEE Computer Society guidelines, and will be refereed by reviewers in terms of relevance, originality, contribution, correctness, and presentation. All Accepted papers will be published by IEEE Press (indexed by EI) and will be included in IEEE Xplore. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to: * P2P systems and infrastructures * Applications of P2P systems * Performance evaluation of P2P systems * Trust and security issues in P2P systems * Network support for P2P systems * Fault tolerance in P2P systems * Data structures for P2P systems * Efficient P2P resource lookup and sharing * Distributed Hash Tables (DHTs) and related issues * Solutions to topology mismatching for P2P overlays * P2P overlays for NVEs * P2P NVE multicast * P2P NVE interoperability * P2P NVE content distribution * P2P NVE 3D streaming * P2P NVE voice communications * P2P NVE architecture designs * P2P NVE prototypes * P2P NVE consistency control * Persistent storage for P2P NVEs * Security and cheat-prevention mechanisms for P2P games * P2P control for mobile NVEs * P2P NVE applications on mobile devices ========================================== IMPORTANT DATES Submission: August 20, 2011 Notification: September 25, 2011 Camera ready: October 7, 2011 =========================================== PAPER SUBMISSION Authors are invited to submit an electronic version of original, unpublished manuscripts, not to exceed 8 double-columned, single-spaced pages, to the workshop. Submitted papers should be in PDF format in accordance with IEEE Computer Society guidelines, and will be refereed by reviewers in terms of originality, contribution, correctness, and presentation. --000e0cd2e2465bac8504a8b80e2d Content-Type: text/html; charset=Big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CFP=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The 5th International Workshop on Peer-to-Peer Networked Virtual Environmen= ts (P2P-NVE 2011)

in conjunction with

The 17th International = Conference on Parallel and Distributed Systems (ICPADS 2011)

Decembe= r 7-9, 2011
Tainan, Taiwan

To: "ppsp@ietf.org" Message-ID: <201107252134293011640@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-25 21:34:36, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-07-25 21:34:43, Serialize complete at 2011-07-25 21:34:43 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon251466205032_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.8.0.1017-18282.007 X-TM-AS-Result: No--5.302-7.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--5.302-7.0-31-10;No--5.302-7.0-31-10 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No;No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Subject: [ppsp] PPSP WG session slides are available X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:34:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon251466205032_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Hi folks, PPSP WG session slides are available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/81/materials.html. Please check for downloading them. BR Yunfei zhangyunfei 2011-07-25 --=====003_Dragon251466205032_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Hi folks,
 
BR
Yunfei
 
zhangyunfei
2011-07-25
 --=====003_Dragon251466205032_=====-- From peer2peer@gmail.com Thu Jul 28 20:22:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D34E21F8757 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:22:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.372 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J1H1a6BZ8XcI for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE07021F86D2 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yxp4 with SMTP id 4so2533045yxp.31 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:22:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=tDE/y5gePHfL/4dWsK1I0+OCEMphMCjPp/SKom7BOCk=; b=MiAwfiuK4JfsuZIzP1zL2aRSF8Bhr//lqd1FJcA3xGpkz1bkqClwuxWPAJKyhJGywL UA7ofZ+gZzDzfzc1SQipXAqvRL/H9wvXnbCAAVww9nJRQqVoxJ9MbpLGPZkZho5d5LmQ aExTEwHLPXY6GXEyCAaCkS0zrdgIRQNULMyqg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.20.21 with SMTP id x21mr470940wfi.39.1311909766036; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.80.16 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 05:22:45 +0200 Message-ID: From: Johan Pouwelse To: ppsp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [ppsp] Requirements comments: draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-03 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 03:22:47 -0000 Dear PPSP people, The V03 requirements document reads as a mature piece of text and seems nearly ready to be finalized. Solid piece of work. Listed below are some proposed minor textual changes. As small as they are textual, in terms of technical impact they are larger. All issues below where also raised and discussed publicly at PPSP IETF meeting 81 in Canada. Disclosure: in my capacity as scientific director of P2P-next I'm responsible for one of the three submitted peer protocols in PPSP. My comments are derived from our years of experience both measuring and deploying P2P streaming systems. Key comments are specifically targeted at enabling PPSP on low-power devices such as smartphones, TV settop boxes and tablets. The text currently contains some requirements which will add both needless complexity and battery drain, according to our experience. We very much welcome discussions regarding the remarks below. Please respond, even if you agree. . . In section 3 "Overview of PPSP", page 5. The definition of "report" lists many examples, but omits a commonly used item which is important for load balancing and fairness. Please consider adding "total amount of bytes uploaded/downloaded to neighbour peers". Still in Section 3 on page 6 regarding the very first sentence. Please make only minimal required functionality mandatory (see low-power remark above). For instance, by replacing existing text with: " 1) Standard format/encoding of information between PPSP peers and PPSP tracker. Some of this exchanged information may be explicitly marked as optional. Exchanged information may include peer list, swarm ID, chunk information, content availability, streaming status including online time, link status, node capability and other streaming parameters." PPSP.REQ-7 on page 7. Please replace with the following outcome of IETF meeting discussion. "The tracker protocol is recommended to be carried over TCP. The peer protocol is recommended to be carried over UDP in order to: facilitate NAT traversal techniques such as STUN/ICE, minimize network socket usage and facilitate congestion control algorithm for less-than-best-effort 'background' transmissions such as IETF LEDBAT." PPSP.REQ-8 on page 7. This requirement is very restrictive for our design space. Do we really desire explicit QoS communication or do we simply require that the whole architecture support the QoS needed for streaming? Please consider replacing this text with: "The tracker and peer protocols MUST support acceptable QoS (e.g. video quality, delay requirements) for both on-demand and live streaming. In other words, the two protocols together must be fit-for-purpose. For instance, the protocols must be able to provision sport events with less than 1 minute of total end-to-end delay." The second paragraph of PPSP.REQ-8 on page 7, beginning with: "The quality for P2P live streaming system could be very bad. Dependent from the".. The purpose and meaning of this whole section could be clarified, sharpened and made more demanding. My hope is that this paragraph can be replaced with clear requirements or that the entire paragraph is deleted {not fully happy with text below, please help out if you're inspired}: "PPSP.REQ-9: For both the live and on-demand streaming case the tracker and peer protocols MUST facilitate low startup delay (e.g. must not include non-functional Round Trip Time (RTT) delays). PPSP.REQ-10: The tracker and peer protocol together MUST facilitate low startup delay, low channel/content switching time and minimal end-to-end delay for both on-demand and live streaming, even for very popular content. The tracker and peer protocol do NOT include the algorithm required for scalable streaming. However, the tracker and peer protocol SHALL NOT restrict or place limits on any such algorithm. The first paragraph on page 8 ends with "The tracker protocol must provide the possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the quality is not sufficient for the user". Why do we specify a solution or mechanism in the requirements, instead of the survey? Can we delete this entire paragraph or move it to the survey? Section 4.3 "PPSP Peer Protocol Requirements" on page 9. To prevent DoS problems it is vital that hearsay amongst peers is not allowed. Please revise PPSP.PP.REQ-1 with: "The streaming content available request message MUST allow a peer to obtain information about chunk availability of another peer. The chunk information MUST at least contain the chunk ID. This chunk availability information MUST NOT be passed on to other peer, unless validated (e.g. prevent hearsay and DoS)." Again on page 9 a similar issue exists with the peer list. Please revise PPSP.PP.REQ-3 by adding: "This additional list of peers MUST only contain peers which have been checked to be valid and online recently (e.g. prevent hearsay and DoS)." Concerning PPSP.PP.REQ-5 on page 10. Why is this required? This restricts the protocol design space. Please make this explicit information-based approach optional, as a feedback based approach utilising simple "failure detection" could perhaps yield similar or superior results. Greetings, johan.