From stpeter@stpeter.im Fri Mar 2 14:05:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC6221E801C for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 14:05:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.196, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ANNRHFnAvoCI for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 14:05:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA2721E802D for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 14:05:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [64.101.72.114]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8164B40058 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 15:17:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F51442E.10209@stpeter.im> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:05:34 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "precis@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [precis] spaces in usernames X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:05:50 -0000 Alexey and I are working on an I-D to replace SASLprep (RFC 4013). One issue we found is that, in RFC 4013, spaces were allowed in usernames. I know the framework document now allows spaces in passphrases, but I'm wondering if we also want to allow spaces in usernames. Something to discuss in Paris, perhaps... Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From stpeter@stpeter.im Fri Mar 2 15:49:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6092A21F85EF for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 15:49:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.793 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.793 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.194, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SIYAjZbViHiw for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 15:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A9721F85E6 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 15:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [64.101.72.114]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D9CFF40058; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 17:01:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F515C7D.1030204@stpeter.im> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:49:17 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "precis@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Miguel A. Garcia" , Ben Campbell Subject: [precis] another PRECIS customer? X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 23:49:19 -0000 FYI, folks in the SIMPLE WG have been discussing how to handle internationalization of nicknames used in chatrooms: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/simple/current/msg09869.html The result probably will be a new PRECIS profile, which might be applicable to nicknames in both SIP/SIMPLE and XMPP chatrooms. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From aland@deployingradius.com Sat Mar 3 00:10:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9735121F8512 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 00:10:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.395 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.395 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.204, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qekb6pIy3Xey for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 00:10:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from liberty.deployingradius.com (liberty.deployingradius.com [88.191.76.128]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F172621F8516 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 00:10:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4F51D1F0.4010303@deployingradius.com> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 09:10:24 +0100 From: Alan DeKok User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Saint-Andre References: <4F51442E.10209@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4F51442E.10209@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "precis@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [precis] spaces in usernames X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 08:10:49 -0000 Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > Alexey and I are working on an I-D to replace SASLprep (RFC 4013). One > issue we found is that, in RFC 4013, spaces were allowed in usernames. I > know the framework document now allows spaces in passphrases, but I'm > wondering if we also want to allow spaces in usernames. Something to > discuss in Paris, perhaps... In a theoretical sense, yes. Practically, usernames are largely email addresses. And I've rarely seen spaces used in practice. Alan DeKok. From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Mar 5 08:34:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D0A21F8844 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:34:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.791 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.791 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.192, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pDmhCD28mewZ for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:34:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE3521F8843 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:34:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [64.101.72.114]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7FB3740058 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:46:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F54EB17.3010208@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:34:31 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "precis@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [precis] some open issues X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 16:34:32 -0000 This morning I reviewed all of the PRECIS-related I-Ds. Here are some issues that seem open to me. 1. types of identifiers The problem statement document cites draft-iab-identifier-comparison regarding types of identifiers (i.e., absolute, definite, and indefinite identifiers). However, the framework document and the profile documents do not mention different identifier types. 2. case preservation The problem statement document mentions the need to specify whether an application protocol preserves case. However, the framework document does not require profile documents to specify whether they preserve case, nor does it provide guidelines or mechanisms for doing so. 3. mapped to nothing The problem statement document mentions the possibility of mapping characters to nothing, as was done in some stringprep profiles. However, the framework document does not provide guidelines or mechanisms for doing so. 4. string classes The problem statement document mentions five possible string classes, corresponding roughly to (a) domain names, (b) usernames, (c) secrets, (d) protocol strings, and (e) string blobs. Clearly, (a) is covered by IDNA2008. However, the framework document now covers only (b) via the NameClass and (d) via the FreeClass, because it removed the SecretClass and never included a blob-class of some sort. Do we need to bring these into alignment? 5. blobs Following up on (4), do we need to define a BlobClass, or would such a class be an absolute identifier requiring only byte-for-byte comparison (and thus not need PRECIS-based comparison rules)? 6. FreeClass The framework document mentions two possible uses of the FreeClass: passphrases and nicknames. However, one could argue that passphrases could be handled by the replacement for SASLprep (Alexey and I will publish version 00 of that I-D today) and one could also argue that nicknames could be handled by a separate PRECIS profile (see recent discussion in the SIMPLE WG). This makes me wonder if we really need to define the FreeClass in the framework document (which then makes me wonder if we might want to define the NameClass in a separate document, leaving the framework as truly just the framework itself -- however I do think it's helpful to define one string class up front so that we can show folks how it's done). 7. normalization The problem statement document notes that NFKC might still be appropriate for some kinds of strings (e.g., because it handles the width issue for full-width and half-width code points), but we seem to have assumed that NFC is the right choice unless proved otherwise. Perhaps we need to provide stronger guidelines here. I also have some thoughts about the XMPP resourcepart profile, but I'll post about that on the XMPP WG list. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Mar 5 08:39:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4248821F849B for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:39:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.79 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.79 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.191, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D-x6v6n7hbng for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:39:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6690821F8887 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [64.101.72.114]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E4A4240058 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:51:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F54EC40.5080206@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:39:28 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "precis@ietf.org" References: <20120305161511.9136.8069.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20120305161511.9136.8069.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20120305161511.9136.8069.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [precis] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis-00.txt X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 16:39:37 -0000 FYI. Clearly I didn't see this before posting my list of open issues just now. :) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis-00.txt Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:15:11 -0800 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Username and Password Preparation Algorithms Author(s) : Peter Saint-Andre Alexey Melnikov Filename : draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2012-03-05 This document describes how to prepare Unicode strings representing user names and passwords, primarily for purposes of comparison. This profile is intended to be used by Simple Authentication and Security Layer (SASL) mechanisms (such as PLAIN and SCRAM-SHA-1), as well as other protocols that exchange simple user names or passwords. This document obsoletes RFC 4013. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis-00.txt _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Mon Mar 5 09:02:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA6121F882C for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:02:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iq+f6bRCWUSj for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (cl-125.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a00:14f0:e000:7c::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8DE21F881E for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:02:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1330966921; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=ptx9bJeZ+lBUpvioEvUpYNSq6a5Oo55m1CmofnuQyZE=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=M826AZbSlq16yJ8YqL1ceqAWRhp9ImZ1tjrCF5fFfCH7pJOVsrtsCKPHjHzthqED0rd0Xt 4AiEuncAkwag+MFDTIFrHaC0PIpAAhYOCS22vVesfABivl3kz9faWKcvrfm1qmAXfaUoVG yeX5bz2+2hN90hH83GPvRfiC4XU6xOU=; Received: from [172.16.1.29] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 17:02:01 +0000 Message-ID: <4F54F1AA.4060703@isode.com> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:02:34 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 To: Alan DeKok References: <4F51442E.10209@stpeter.im> <4F51D1F0.4010303@deployingradius.com> In-Reply-To: <4F51D1F0.4010303@deployingradius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "precis@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [precis] spaces in usernames X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:02:08 -0000 On 03/03/2012 08:10, Alan DeKok wrote: > Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >> Alexey and I are working on an I-D to replace SASLprep (RFC 4013). One >> issue we found is that, in RFC 4013, spaces were allowed in usernames. I >> know the framework document now allows spaces in passphrases, but I'm >> wondering if we also want to allow spaces in usernames. Something to >> discuss in Paris, perhaps... > In a theoretical sense, yes. > > Practically, usernames are largely email addresses. And I've rarely > seen spaces used in practice. Spaces are allowed in email addresses, if quoted. Of course no sane person would pick an email address with spaces on the left hand side (as this is unlikely to work in many places), but at least SMTP allows for that. (And then there are email addresses used for gatewaying from other systems like X.400. Such email addresses can also contain spaces) I would be happy with discouraging spaces in usernames, but I don't think we can just prohibit them. From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Mon Mar 5 09:12:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 593DF21F8865 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:12:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.466 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.466 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5db9I4V3ZaPS for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C32DA21F8852 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 26F991ECB41D for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 17:11:59 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 12:11:57 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: precis@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120305171157.GO76465@mail.yitter.info> References: <4F54EB17.3010208@stpeter.im> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F54EB17.3010208@stpeter.im> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [precis] some open issues X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:12:00 -0000 Hi Peter, On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 09:34:31AM -0700, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > 2. case preservation > > The problem statement document mentions the need to specify whether an > application protocol preserves case. However, the framework document > does not require profile documents to specify whether they preserve > case, nor does it provide guidelines or mechanisms for doing so. This came up more than once in discussion, however, so I presume people still think it's important. > 3. mapped to nothing > > The problem statement document mentions the possibility of mapping > characters to nothing, as was done in some stringprep profiles. However, > the framework document does not provide guidelines or mechanisms for > doing so. Some of the reviews indicated that there are existing stringprep profiles in use that map to nothing. If we're going to say that this is deprecated, we need to state it outright. > 4. string classes > > The problem statement document mentions five possible string classes, > corresponding roughly to (a) domain names, (b) usernames, (c) secrets, > (d) protocol strings, and (e) string blobs. Clearly, (a) is covered by > IDNA2008. However, the framework document now covers only (b) via the > NameClass and (d) via the FreeClass, because it removed the SecretClass > and never included a blob-class of some sort. Do we need to bring these > into alignment? The working copy text that Marc and I are working on has DomainClass, NameClass, and FreeClass in it. NameClass is defined to be like IDNA2008, which means that framework shouldn't have it. The other two are in framework-01 (I just checked). > 5. blobs > > Following up on (4), do we need to define a BlobClass, or would such a > class be an absolute identifier requiring only byte-for-byte comparison > (and thus not need PRECIS-based comparison rules)? We concluded previously that we did not need it. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Mar 5 09:12:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81A3C21F8869 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:12:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.786 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.786 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.187, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eY2hqCTVr0b5 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6DF21F886E for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [64.101.72.114]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CFF9540058; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 10:24:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F54F404.30104@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 10:12:36 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexey Melnikov References: <4F51442E.10209@stpeter.im> <4F51D1F0.4010303@deployingradius.com> <4F54F1AA.4060703@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <4F54F1AA.4060703@isode.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "precis@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [precis] spaces in usernames X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:12:36 -0000 On 3/5/12 10:02 AM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > On 03/03/2012 08:10, Alan DeKok wrote: >> Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >>> Alexey and I are working on an I-D to replace SASLprep (RFC 4013). One >>> issue we found is that, in RFC 4013, spaces were allowed in usernames. I >>> know the framework document now allows spaces in passphrases, but I'm >>> wondering if we also want to allow spaces in usernames. Something to >>> discuss in Paris, perhaps... >> In a theoretical sense, yes. >> >> Practically, usernames are largely email addresses. And I've rarely >> seen spaces used in practice. > Spaces are allowed in email addresses, if quoted. Of course no sane > person would pick an email address with spaces on the left hand side (as > this is unlikely to work in many places), but at least SMTP allows for > that. > (And then there are email addresses used for gatewaying from other > systems like X.400. Such email addresses can also contain spaces) It's rather unlikely that X.400 will be made Unicode-aware, right? ;-) > I would be happy with discouraging spaces in usernames, but I don't > think we can just prohibit them. I tend to agree. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Mon Mar 5 09:26:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E6A221F8844 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:26:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.307 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.307 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.292, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NJm3jvaWIJ61 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:26:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (cl-125.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a00:14f0:e000:7c::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995CF21F883F for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:26:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1330968413; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=yVEODBk8NX4wRevkcTSicTTF2y0oPeku6wJEKVQKAHc=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=IXb7Jc1KosO1C5Cc7i12RJ4iU9P1SHzFdTbp2zhaddgKAQSKLZOv9amJixB86BpwNz6cYb rrylIfQ/QGxW+KfOV9PTAiio8DyExg4mU8QW17qXiUMmzXPCVkhYZmKwXgsw9dmZyuq0mo d7vfxk2UG3cF2CsKmLaLdJcsLwI+VXM=; Received: from [172.16.1.29] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 17:26:53 +0000 Message-ID: <4F54F780.8080104@isode.com> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:27:28 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 To: Peter Saint-Andre References: <4F51442E.10209@stpeter.im> <4F51D1F0.4010303@deployingradius.com> <4F54F1AA.4060703@isode.com> <4F54F404.30104@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4F54F404.30104@stpeter.im> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "precis@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [precis] spaces in usernames X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:26:55 -0000 On 05/03/2012 17:12, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > On 3/5/12 10:02 AM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >> On 03/03/2012 08:10, Alan DeKok wrote: >>> Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >>>> Alexey and I are working on an I-D to replace SASLprep (RFC 4013). One >>>> issue we found is that, in RFC 4013, spaces were allowed in usernames. I >>>> know the framework document now allows spaces in passphrases, but I'm >>>> wondering if we also want to allow spaces in usernames. Something to >>>> discuss in Paris, perhaps... >>> In a theoretical sense, yes. >>> >>> Practically, usernames are largely email addresses. And I've rarely >>> seen spaces used in practice. >> Spaces are allowed in email addresses, if quoted. Of course no sane >> person would pick an email address with spaces on the left hand side (as >> this is unlikely to work in many places), but at least SMTP allows for >> that. >> (And then there are email addresses used for gatewaying from other >> systems like X.400. Such email addresses can also contain spaces) > It's rather unlikely that X.400 will be made Unicode-aware, right? ;-) Actually, you might be surprised. X.400 names are based on X.500 and the latter is very much in active development to this day. And X.500 even has support for SASL now ;-). >> I would be happy with discouraging spaces in usernames, but I don't >> think we can just prohibit them. > I tend to agree. From jhildebr@cisco.com Mon Mar 5 09:41:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE35B21F88B4 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:41:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.532 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-YEwSqKH2pr for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:41:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtv-iport-1.cisco.com (mtv-iport-1.cisco.com [173.36.130.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74A621F8835 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:41:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=jhildebr@cisco.com; l=653; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1330969264; x=1332178864; h=date:subject:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=ov8tf5J9AQnQvoVW3oHY7Hmifc1KJ4O1xZZNXCQPOU4=; b=MKNc8TWA/M1ffHRU+RJtNorBw89bS1hRLXkIKduSJKmycntMUOf8Cy3N vMfdosavL9rk5YXUY2z3kqgO7sL90Fsgb4Idg+RNwxkd36E0Lnr+1n4th qG114CfBBuNnOl5gmeVYF4Mcn2ttQ/ohCWquqMXaMYP4Kbif6Y4+HTpTP o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApgIAOP5VE+rRDoI/2dsb2JhbABDiXqqZgKBB4F9AQEBAwESAScCAUENAQiBHQEBBAESIodgBAGZPAGeaZBdBIhQjG6QEoMD X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,534,1325462400"; d="scan'208";a="31991848" Received: from mtv-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.58.8]) by mtv-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Mar 2012 17:41:04 +0000 Received: from xbh-rcd-302.cisco.com (xbh-rcd-302.cisco.com [72.163.63.9]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q25Hf4Mn016413; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 17:41:04 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-313.cisco.com ([72.163.63.28]) by xbh-rcd-302.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 5 Mar 2012 11:41:04 -0600 Received: from 64.101.74.200 ([64.101.74.200]) by XMB-RCD-313.cisco.com ([72.163.63.28]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 17:41:03 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.32.0.111121 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 10:41:02 -0700 From: Joe Hildebrand To: Peter Saint-Andre , "precis@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [precis] some open issues Thread-Index: Acz69yHtbyHn4va2/0C8ffswtCvISA== In-Reply-To: <4F54EB17.3010208@stpeter.im> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2012 17:41:04.0569 (UTC) FILETIME=[2375CA90:01CCFAF7] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:43:12 -0800 Subject: Re: [precis] some open issues X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:41:05 -0000 On 3/5/12 9:34 AM, "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: > 2. case preservation > > The problem statement document mentions the need to specify whether an > application protocol preserves case. However, the framework document > does not require profile documents to specify whether they preserve > case, nor does it provide guidelines or mechanisms for doing so. Suggestion: if the protocol is going to preserve case, the registrar for that identifier SHOULD NOT allow registration of two identifiers that case fold to the same thing (deliberate hand-wave over how you compare the case-folded versions). -- Joe Hildebrand From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Mar 5 14:03:46 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1FB21F8865 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 14:03:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.78 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.78 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 34lnhCbkLus5 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 14:03:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079D621F8862 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 14:03:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [64.101.72.114]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CFD6C40058 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 15:15:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F553839.1020801@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 15:03:37 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "precis@ietf.org" References: <20120305220012.23949.48147.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20120305220012.23949.48147.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20120305220012.23949.48147.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [precis] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-saintandre-precis-nickname-00.txt X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 22:03:46 -0000 FYI. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-saintandre-precis-nickname-00.txt Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 14:00:12 -0800 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Preparation and Comparison of Nicknames Author(s) : Peter Saint-Andre Filename : draft-saintandre-precis-nickname-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2012-03-05 This document describes how to prepare and compare Unicode strings representing nicknames, primarily as used within textual chatrooms. This profile is intended to be used by chatroom technologies based on both the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) and the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saintandre-precis-nickname-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saintandre-precis-nickname-00.txt _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From stpeter@stpeter.im Wed Mar 7 12:31:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C4D11E809C for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:31:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.684 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.684 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y2-zSPgvYe-V for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 449D211E809B for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [72.163.0.129]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 11D294005B; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:42:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F57C581.3090803@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:30:57 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Hildebrand References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "precis@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [precis] some open issues X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 20:31:00 -0000 On 3/5/12 10:41 AM, Joe Hildebrand wrote: > On 3/5/12 9:34 AM, "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: > >> 2. case preservation >> >> The problem statement document mentions the need to specify whether an >> application protocol preserves case. However, the framework document >> does not require profile documents to specify whether they preserve >> case, nor does it provide guidelines or mechanisms for doing so. > > Suggestion: if the protocol is going to preserve case, the registrar for > that identifier SHOULD NOT allow registration of two identifiers that case > fold to the same thing (deliberate hand-wave over how you compare the > case-folded versions). Yes, taking "registrar" broadly (e.g., an IM service that enables you to create accounts is functioning as a registrar). Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From stpeter@stpeter.im Wed Mar 7 12:55:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C612C11E80AE for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:55:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.679 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.679 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TIfVKAjcfvgF for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:55:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5EC21F8542 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:55:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [72.163.0.129]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E7F6440058; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 14:07:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F57CB29.7070208@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:55:05 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan References: <4F54EB17.3010208@stpeter.im> <20120305171157.GO76465@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120305171157.GO76465@mail.yitter.info> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: precis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [precis] some open issues X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 20:55:34 -0000 On 3/5/12 10:11 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Hi Peter, > > On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 09:34:31AM -0700, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >> 2. case preservation >> >> The problem statement document mentions the need to specify whether an >> application protocol preserves case. However, the framework document >> does not require profile documents to specify whether they preserve >> case, nor does it provide guidelines or mechanisms for doing so. > > This came up more than once in discussion, however, so I presume > people still think it's important. Right. The question is whether we need a way to signal that somehow (ick) or whether, as Joe says, we can leave it up to entities which function as "registrars" in a given application protocol. >> 3. mapped to nothing >> >> The problem statement document mentions the possibility of mapping >> characters to nothing, as was done in some stringprep profiles. However, >> the framework document does not provide guidelines or mechanisms for >> doing so. > > Some of the reviews indicated that there are existing stringprep > profiles in use that map to nothing. If we're going to say that this > is deprecated, we need to state it outright. I looked at this when working on the SASLprepbis spec with Alexey. The text there currently says: 2. (MAPPING 2) Characters from the "M" category defined under Section 6.13 MUST be mapped to nothing (this category includes all of the "characters commonly mapped to nothing" from Appendix B.1 of [STRINGPREP]), except U+1806 MONGOLIAN TODO SOFT HYPHEN). Instead of handling this via mapping, we could say that the "M" category is DISALLOWED for that profile. That seems more in line with the Tao of PRECIS. (Can we be said to have a Tao yet?) >> 4. string classes >> >> The problem statement document mentions five possible string classes, >> corresponding roughly to (a) domain names, (b) usernames, (c) secrets, >> (d) protocol strings, and (e) string blobs. Clearly, (a) is covered by >> IDNA2008. However, the framework document now covers only (b) via the >> NameClass and (d) via the FreeClass, because it removed the SecretClass >> and never included a blob-class of some sort. Do we need to bring these >> into alignment? > > The working copy text that Marc and I are working on has DomainClass, > NameClass, and FreeClass in it. NameClass is defined to be like > IDNA2008, which means that framework shouldn't have it. I assume you mean "DomainClass" in the second sentence. > The other two > are in framework-01 (I just checked). Yes. >> 5. blobs >> >> Following up on (4), do we need to define a BlobClass, or would such a >> class be an absolute identifier requiring only byte-for-byte comparison >> (and thus not need PRECIS-based comparison rules)? > > We concluded previously that we did not need it. And I agree with that conclusion. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From jhildebr@cisco.com Wed Mar 7 12:57:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0C211E80A1 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:57:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.532 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zQxpQ5XU1dBT for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:57:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1756811E8098 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:57:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=jhildebr@cisco.com; l=330; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1331153845; x=1332363445; h=date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=anqwbWl9vh+dJsuhRYwM0RwSApHhOZ3wtqIYGOoWEJQ=; b=HfHf3h8QRdtWzkRFJXVLxfC3gobCy5svdQPGDqpQvo1kUNEIIINgcWl8 xh5rMS2fxN0zOHyZoOGb0JcDAkOgFySjJGRhN7zlKbls3A3hhVrtjY+EK FttsH8d39fwqeWGu2ihgWQZoI/QM9EzmAS70mLLm4DQoacSJ1TESj8g1o A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Al0JAEvLV0+tJXHB/2dsb2JhbABEiXqrKgKBB4IKAQEBAwESAScCATwFDQEIgR0BAQQOBSKHYQWaUgGfEZBvBIhSjG+QF4MD X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,548,1325462400"; d="scan'208";a="64625205" Received: from rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com ([173.37.113.193]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Mar 2012 20:57:24 +0000 Received: from xbh-rcd-302.cisco.com (xbh-rcd-302.cisco.com [72.163.63.9]) by rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q27KvOKs004607; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 20:57:24 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-313.cisco.com ([72.163.63.28]) by xbh-rcd-302.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 7 Mar 2012 14:57:24 -0600 Received: from 64.101.74.200 ([64.101.74.200]) by XMB-RCD-313.cisco.com ([72.163.63.28]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 20:57:24 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.32.0.111121 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:57:23 -0700 From: Joe Hildebrand To: Peter Saint-Andre Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [precis] some open issues Thread-Index: Acz8pOTHVtG3ssV7ekag41deNdtpsg== In-Reply-To: <4F57C581.3090803@stpeter.im> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2012 20:57:24.0715 (UTC) FILETIME=[E5CCEBB0:01CCFCA4] Cc: "precis@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [precis] some open issues X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 20:57:26 -0000 On 3/7/12 1:30 PM, "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: > Yes, taking "registrar" broadly (e.g., an IM service that enables you to > create accounts is functioning as a registrar). That was my intent, "registrar" being the entity that controls allocation for a given set of identifiers. -- Joe Hildebrand From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed Mar 7 13:00:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D50D11E8086 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:00:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.473 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.473 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.126, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4UqbnC7j0jtJ for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E1611E809B for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5FBF1ECB41D for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:00:26 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 16:00:25 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: precis@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120307210024.GV79276@mail.yitter.info> References: <4F54EB17.3010208@stpeter.im> <20120305171157.GO76465@mail.yitter.info> <4F57CB29.7070208@stpeter.im> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F57CB29.7070208@stpeter.im> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [precis] some open issues X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:00:28 -0000 On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 01:55:05PM -0700, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > >> The problem statement document mentions the need to specify whether an > >> application protocol preserves case. However, the framework document > >> does not require profile documents to specify whether they preserve > >> case, nor does it provide guidelines or mechanisms for doing so. > > > > This came up more than once in discussion, however, so I presume > > people still think it's important. > > Right. The question is whether we need a way to signal that somehow > (ick) or whether, as Joe says, we can leave it up to entities which > function as "registrars" in a given application protocol. Well, the reason for it is, I guess, obvious; but in case anyone hasn't been following: a lot of protocols have the idea of case-insensitive matching. This is trivial in ASCII and at least hard in everything else. If case is never preserved, then we don't have to worry about it. If case is preserved but also relevant for matching, then we don't actually need to worry about it either. But if case is preserved but matching is supposed to be case-insensitive, then everything hurts. I'm ok with punting this to the individual protocols, but I think at the very least we need to explain in some detail why they need to make a decision (and maybe suggest what it ought to be). > Instead of handling this via mapping, we could say that the "M" category > is DISALLOWED for that profile. That seems more in line with the Tao of > PRECIS. (Can we be said to have a Tao yet?) That's certainly what IDNA2008 did, and I'm not opposed. > > The working copy text that Marc and I are working on has DomainClass, > > NameClass, and FreeClass in it. NameClass is defined to be like > > IDNA2008, which means that framework shouldn't have it. > > I assume you mean "DomainClass" in the second sentence. Yes, sorry. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From stpeter@stpeter.im Wed Mar 7 13:01:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55EA421E805E for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:01:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.677 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.078, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VeEB1hIMtomD for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611C011E8086 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [72.163.0.129]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5CB0340058 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 14:13:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F57CC90.20203@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:01:04 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "precis@ietf.org" References: <4F54EB17.3010208@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4F54EB17.3010208@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [precis] some open issues X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:01:07 -0000 On 3/5/12 9:34 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: Replying to myself on the topics Andrew and Joe didn't mention... > 6. FreeClass > > The framework document mentions two possible uses of the FreeClass: > passphrases and nicknames. However, one could argue that passphrases > could be handled by the replacement for SASLprep (Alexey and I will > publish version 00 of that I-D today) and one could also argue that > nicknames could be handled by a separate PRECIS profile (see recent > discussion in the SIMPLE WG). This makes me wonder if we really need to > define the FreeClass in the framework document (which then makes me > wonder if we might want to define the NameClass in a separate document, > leaving the framework as truly just the framework itself -- however I do > think it's helpful to define one string class up front so that we can > show folks how it's done). Now that I think about it some more, I think we do need FreeClass, which other specs will then profile. See for instance Section 3 of draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis and draft-saintandre-precis-nickname. > 7. normalization > > The problem statement document notes that NFKC might still be > appropriate for some kinds of strings (e.g., because it handles the > width issue for full-width and half-width code points), but we seem to > have assumed that NFC is the right choice unless proved otherwise. > Perhaps we need to provide stronger guidelines here. Looking at the framework document again, I'm reminded that we prefer NFC because that's what RFC 5198 recommends. However, there still might be profiles that would prefer NFKC -- e.g., that's what I did in the 00 version of draft-saintandre-precis-nickname because it seemed appropriate there to reduce the possibility of confusion. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From stpeter@stpeter.im Wed Mar 7 13:15:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE0521F84FE for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:15:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.675 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.675 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S8MrlsKpXtgd for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00C3021F84D6 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (unknown [72.163.0.129]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0781F40058; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 14:27:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4F57CFDE.9040701@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:15:10 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan References: <4F54EB17.3010208@stpeter.im> <20120305171157.GO76465@mail.yitter.info> <4F57CB29.7070208@stpeter.im> <20120307210024.GV79276@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120307210024.GV79276@mail.yitter.info> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: precis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [precis] some open issues X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:15:13 -0000 On 3/7/12 2:00 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 01:55:05PM -0700, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > >>>> The problem statement document mentions the need to specify whether an >>>> application protocol preserves case. However, the framework document >>>> does not require profile documents to specify whether they preserve >>>> case, nor does it provide guidelines or mechanisms for doing so. >>> >>> This came up more than once in discussion, however, so I presume >>> people still think it's important. >> >> Right. The question is whether we need a way to signal that somehow >> (ick) or whether, as Joe says, we can leave it up to entities which >> function as "registrars" in a given application protocol. > > Well, the reason for it is, I guess, obvious; but in case anyone > hasn't been following: a lot of protocols have the idea of > case-insensitive matching. This is trivial in ASCII and at least hard > in everything else. If case is never preserved, then we don't have to > worry about it. If case is preserved but also relevant for matching, > then we don't actually need to worry about it either. But if case is > preserved but matching is supposed to be case-insensitive, then > everything hurts. I'm ok with punting this to the individual > protocols, but I think at the very least we need to explain in some > detail why they need to make a decision (and maybe suggest what it > ought to be). Yes, that seems quite reasonable. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From internet-drafts@ietf.org Mon Mar 12 12:53:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CA7621E80BF; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:53:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GSvk2nImqWHQ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF9121E80B6; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:53:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.00 Message-ID: <20120312195320.10347.72396.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:53:20 -0700 Cc: precis@ietf.org Subject: [precis] I-D Action: draft-ietf-precis-framework-02.txt X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:53:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Preparation and Comparison of Interna= tionalized Strings Working Group of the IETF. Title : PRECIS Framework: Handling Internationalized Strings in = Protocols Author(s) : Peter Saint-Andre Marc Blanchet Filename : draft-ietf-precis-framework-02.txt Pages : 31 Date : 2012-03-12 Application protocols using Unicode code points in protocol strings need to prepare such strings in order to perform comparison operations (e.g., for purposes of authentication or authorization). This document defines a framework enabling application protocols to use various classes of strings in a way that depends on the properties of Unicode code points. A specification using this framework can either directly use the base string classes or can subclass the base string classes as needed. This framework uses an approach similar to the revised internationalized domain names in applications (IDNA) technology (RFC 5890, RFC 5891, RFC 5892, RFC 5893, RFC 5894) and thus adheres to the high-level design goals described in RFC 4690, albeit for application technologies other than the Domain Name System (DNS). This document obsoletes the previous framework, named Stringprep, as defined in RFC 3454. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-precis-framework-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-precis-framework-02.txt From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Mar 12 12:57:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5962B21E8090 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:57:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.713 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.713 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wZUZWSqJawHW for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3003721E808F for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from squire.local (unknown [64.101.72.114]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3D9E440058 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4F5E5513.4000407@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 13:57:07 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "precis@ietf.org" References: <20120312195320.10347.72396.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20120312195320.10347.72396.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [precis] I-D Action: draft-ietf-precis-framework-02.txt X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:57:09 -0000 Marc and I have updated the document to track changes in the problem statement. We have also started working on the codepoint table, but it is incomplete at this time (we will endeavor to do so in the next few weeks). On 3/12/12 1:53 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : PRECIS Framework: Handling Internationalized Strings in Protocols > Author(s) : Peter Saint-Andre > Marc Blanchet > Filename : draft-ietf-precis-framework-02.txt > Pages : 31 > Date : 2012-03-12 > > Application protocols using Unicode code points in protocol strings > need to prepare such strings in order to perform comparison > operations (e.g., for purposes of authentication or authorization). > This document defines a framework enabling application protocols to > use various classes of strings in a way that depends on the > properties of Unicode code points. A specification using this > framework can either directly use the base string classes or can > subclass the base string classes as needed. This framework uses an > approach similar to the revised internationalized domain names in > applications (IDNA) technology (RFC 5890, RFC 5891, RFC 5892, RFC > 5893, RFC 5894) and thus adheres to the high-level design goals > described in RFC 4690, albeit for application technologies other than > the Domain Name System (DNS). This document obsoletes the previous > framework, named Stringprep, as defined in RFC 3454. > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-precis-framework-02.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-precis-framework-02.txt > > _______________________________________________ > precis mailing list > precis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/precis From internet-drafts@ietf.org Mon Mar 12 14:05:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7089211E812E; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:05:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.583 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.583 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V0coHURLb1c9; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3E111E8123; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:05:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.00 Message-ID: <20120312210518.6810.33747.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:05:18 -0700 Cc: precis@ietf.org Subject: [precis] I-D Action: draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05.txt X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:05:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Preparation and Comparison of Interna= tionalized Strings Working Group of the IETF. Title : Stringprep Revision Problem Statement Author(s) : Marc Blanchet Andrew Sullivan Filename : draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2012-03-12 Using Unicode codepoints in protocol strings that expect comparison with other strings requires preparation of the string that contains the Unicode codepoints. Internationalizing Domain Names in Applications (IDNA2003) defined and used Stringprep and Nameprep. Other protocols subsequently defined Stringprep profiles. A new approach different from Stringprep and Nameprep is used for a revision of IDNA2003 (called IDNA2008). Other Stringprep profiles need to be similarly updated or a replacement of Stringprep needs to be designed. This document outlines the issues to be faced by those designing a Stringprep replacement. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05.= txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05.t= xt From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Mon Mar 12 14:25:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D3811E8116 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:25:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CxByV-M-GjhX for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:25:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9A511E8088 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (unknown [199.91.193.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 68EBF1ECB41C for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:25:56 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:25:50 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: precis@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120312212541.GA13274@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120312210518.6810.33747.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120312210518.6810.33747.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [precis] I-D Action: draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05.txt X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:25:59 -0000 Dear colleagues, On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 02:05:18PM -0700, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Stringprep Revision Problem Statement > Author(s) : Marc Blanchet > Andrew Sullivan > Filename : draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05.txt > Pages : 30 > Date : 2012-03-12 Marc and I updated this draft in keeping, we believe, with what the WG has suggested and with what we previously said we'd do. We think this draft is complete. Best regards, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Mon Mar 12 15:21:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E1321F8941 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:21:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zny2fHaHS1VV for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000:226:55ff:fe57:14db]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A08521F8942 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mb.lan (modemcable180.211-203-24.mc.videotron.ca [24.203.211.180]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 77F4340D79 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: <20120312210518.6810.33747.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:21:22 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <24742BC5-34AD-4CBC-9B3D-5D383C0A3B6F@viagenie.ca> References: <20120312210518.6810.33747.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: precis@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Subject: Re: [precis] I-D Action: draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05.txt X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:21:26 -0000 To note, we have populated Appendix B with what is a attempt to insert = the various string prep profiles evaluations that were put into the = precis tracker. =20 Marc. Le 2012-03-12 =E0 17:05, internet-drafts@ietf.org a =E9crit : >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. This draft is a work item of the Preparation and Comparison = of Internationalized Strings Working Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Stringprep Revision Problem Statement > Author(s) : Marc Blanchet > Andrew Sullivan > Filename : draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05.txt > Pages : 30 > Date : 2012-03-12 >=20 > Using Unicode codepoints in protocol strings that expect comparison > with other strings requires preparation of the string that contains > the Unicode codepoints. Internationalizing Domain Names in > Applications (IDNA2003) defined and used Stringprep and Nameprep. > Other protocols subsequently defined Stringprep profiles. A new > approach different from Stringprep and Nameprep is used for a > revision of IDNA2003 (called IDNA2008). Other Stringprep profiles > need to be similarly updated or a replacement of Stringprep needs to > be designed. This document outlines the issues to be faced by those > designing a Stringprep replacement. >=20 >=20 > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05= .txt >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: > = ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement-05.= txt >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From yoshiro.yoneya@jprs.co.jp Mon Mar 19 03:51:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA73221F866D for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:51:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5TaBu72n95Bc for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-send02.tyo.jprs.co.jp (off-send02.tyo.jprs.co.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:8:17::20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408BB21F8663 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-sendsmg02.tyo.jprs.co.jp (off-sendsmg02.tyo.jprs.co.jp [172.18.8.33]) by off-send02.tyo.jprs.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q2JApT3X018040 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 19:51:29 +0900 X-AuditID: ac120821-b7fc36d000000cd0-21-4f670fb11d8d Received: from NOTE550 (off-cpu04.tyo.jprs.co.jp [172.18.4.14]) by off-sendsmg02.tyo.jprs.co.jp (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 92.61.03280.1BF076F4; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 19:51:29 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 19:51:26 +0900 From: Yoshiro YONEYA To: precis@ietf.org Message-Id: <20120319195126.c4bea7d6.yoshiro.yoneya@jprs.co.jp> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.3 (GTK+ 2.10.14; i686-pc-mingw32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsWyRoiFT3cjf7q/Qe8qZYtd3/+wOjB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY+a6BvaCXvaKt7e3MTYwvmHtYuTkkBAwkbhyvYMZwhaTuHBv PVsXIxeHkMBxRombs38xgSRYBFQlXsw7ygZiswkYSPxa9hssLiIgLHHr9kKwQcICShLtv0+w g9i8AvYSj+euhlpgIbG87ydQLwdQXFDi7w5hkDCzgJbEw1+3WCBseYntb+cwT2DkmYVQNQtJ 1SwkVQsYmVcxyuSnpekWp+alFOemGxjplVTm62UVFBXrJYPoTYzgYOFQ3MH4aKfBIUYBDkYl Ht5vGWn+QqyJZcWVuYcYJTmYlER5TTnS/YX4kvJTKjMSizPii0pzUosPMUpwMCuJ8DpdByrn TUmsrEotyodJSXOwKInz6m/b7ickkJ5YkpqdmlqQWgSTleHgUJLg9QRGhZBgUWp6akVaZk4J QpqJgxNkOA/QcDWQGt7igsTc4sx0iPwpRkkpcV4XkIQASCKjNA+u9xWjONALwrwH+YCyPMDI h+t6BTSQCWhg3E2Qa4tLEhFSUg2MHeqxOz+zhB432SyZpZ9u5vlOT5yPh0FN7vjK77rigl6t RYo8fm91rkj6ihmejo97Vm/Tndl/tPJPvl/mme6twgKXU2+qH26/tUHWksfpir6Qu/FzaWVv 74fMdQ0CLF53Xq53YX23+uzjqgXdcaInni4L3CW+5M+/D87/1i+++cYzK+je6V4lluKMREMt 5qLiRADr6XY3uQIAAA== Subject: [precis] IETF83 Paris draft agenda X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:51:32 -0000 Dear all, Sorry for the delayed notification. Following is draft agenda for IETF 83 Paris. Please sned comments/additions/changes to the chairs. 1. Administrativia 2. Document updates / Discussion 2.1 WG I-Ds (1) Problem-statement https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement/ (2) Framework https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-precis-framework/ 2.2 Individual Documents (1) Mapping characters for PRECIS classes https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yoneya-precis-mappings/ (2) Username and Password Preparation Algorithms https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis/ (3) Preparation and Comparison of Nicknames https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saintandre-precis-nickname/ 3. Next steps Marc & Yoneya, co-chairs -- Yoshiro YONEYA From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Mar 19 11:15:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7E2921F88C1 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:15:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.694 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.694 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.095, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l4igYmUQIvqn for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA97E21F8851 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-185.cisco.com (unknown [64.101.72.185]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F0A2C40058; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:27:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4F6777B7.7010306@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:15:19 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yoshiro YONEYA References: <20120319195126.c4bea7d6.yoshiro.yoneya@jprs.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <20120319195126.c4bea7d6.yoshiro.yoneya@jprs.co.jp> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: precis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [precis] IETF83 Paris draft agenda X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 18:15:23 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 3/19/12 4:51 AM, Yoshiro YONEYA wrote: > Dear all, > > Sorry for the delayed notification. Following is draft agenda for > IETF 83 Paris. Please sned comments/additions/changes to the > chairs. > > 1. Administrativia 2. Document updates / Discussion 2.1 WG I-Ds (1) > Problem-statement > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-precis-problem-statement/ > > (2) Framework > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-precis-framework/ 2.2 > Individual Documents (1) Mapping characters for PRECIS classes > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yoneya-precis-mappings/ (2) > Username and Password Preparation Algorithms > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis/ > > (3) Preparation and Comparison of Nicknames > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saintandre-precis-nickname/ I've created draft slides for 2.1.2 and 2.2.3: http://www.saint-andre.com/ietf/ietf83-precis-framework.pdf http://www.saint-andre.com/ietf/ietf83-precis-nickname.pdf I'll work with Alexey on 2.2.2. Feedback is welcome! Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk9nd7cACgkQNL8k5A2w/vxKIACgpEa58GdlCa/QEyoqTny0d7HR ffoAoO/6a9TevIFHwgGmxjQ9EYyIKCKQ =F/xs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Sat Mar 24 07:52:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9037D21F86C2 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 07:52:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z+pssM2oNVqj for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 07:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (cl-125.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a00:14f0:e000:7c::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2BD021F86C1 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1332600724; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=kh3+UcdjXqCiBBe33Fqi4/STWCUuC4DuiEHIbUAoPCM=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=AoJkPADepuqzGieros+qgvHrL/LQ4gnGn2UJcX0SLkI5xaU02jGL/9y5yg6owQff8tBgXi onQ1/IqMc4P+g0r0C6KR5lgexU+sG+KxzJVzPbvFO4JlK5obrA9Vyw0nfpSndPe9tBRgFB k+xoZcrjSCWuhU7KMsHAXlNQiSaoYh8=; Received: from [130.129.71.173] (dhcp-47ad.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.71.173]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 14:52:04 +0000 X-SMTP-Protocol-Errors: PIPELINING Message-ID: <4F6DDF9A.80106@isode.com> Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:52:10 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 To: precis@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [precis] Introduction of draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis-00.txt (Username and Password Preparation Algorithms) X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 14:52:06 -0000 Dear WG participants, Peter and I posted https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-melnikov-precis-saslprepbis/ which is an initial attempt to update RFC 4013 to use the Precis framework. When compared to RFC 4013, the -00 draft does the following changes: o A single SASLprep algorithm was replaced by two separate algorithms: one for user names and another for passwords. o The new preparation algorithms use PRECIS instead of a Stringprep profile. The algorithms are now Unicode version independent. The basic idea for -00 was to try to preserve backward compatibility with RFC 4013 (for example there is a pre-processing step to map characters from the Unicode's "N" category to US-ASCII space) and identify cases where use of Precis framework as currently written (e.g. NameClass) will break that. So please have a look at the draft and let Peter and I know what you think. Best Regards, Alexey P.S. I am hoping that the draft can be used as the base of one of Precis deliverable. From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Thu Mar 29 06:46:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3343A21F89B3 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:46:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.288 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.288 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.311, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pcod9qhap8J0 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000:226:55ff:fe57:14db]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55A421F87ED for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-51c6.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-51c6.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.81.198]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EBE14400CB for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:45:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Blanchet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:45:57 +0200 Message-Id: <7A8EC320-1224-4A18-A9B1-DA7E9E693A6D@viagenie.ca> To: precis@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Subject: [precis] 2012-03-29 precis wg minutes X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:46:00 -0000 Minutes posted for our wg meeting today: = http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/minutes/minutes-83-precis.txt Thanks to all minute takers. please send minutes changes to the chairs Regards, Marc & Yoneya-san= From stpeter@stpeter.im Thu Mar 29 07:53:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D5521E8196 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:53:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.988, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H0JrrrNZdgJt for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1495321E819C for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-153f.meeting.ietf.org (unknown [130.129.21.63]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6745C40058; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4F747749.8020802@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:52:57 +0200 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marc Blanchet References: <7A8EC320-1224-4A18-A9B1-DA7E9E693A6D@viagenie.ca> In-Reply-To: <7A8EC320-1224-4A18-A9B1-DA7E9E693A6D@viagenie.ca> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: precis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [precis] 2012-03-29 precis wg minutes X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:53:17 -0000 On 3/29/12 3:45 PM, Marc Blanchet wrote: > Minutes posted for our wg meeting today: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/minutes/minutes-83-precis.txt > > Thanks to all minute takers. Matt Miller did a great job -- there was a lot of back-and-forth at the mic so it wasn't easy. I'll review them in more detail soon. /psa From mamille2@cisco.com Thu Mar 29 07:54:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9C321E819B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:54:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UihbLnFV80Tz for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-4.cisco.com (mtv-iport-4.cisco.com [173.36.130.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525D521E809C for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:54:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=mamille2@cisco.com; l=1188; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1333032849; x=1334242449; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=V0GTFJVbmM+KOZO9qMheEj/qJB/9Kfq4zafIwACiYBU=; b=LAKkKf5z8CB62eE8Tpf9XEZ19m27NGn+zoc2BH+NvMxL8Cz2ugq8DKhp udLNYtEAxjppu5WezFcuJLNSXAVrgDp7MkJiX8iS3EHG/+iE+bdcXWaM0 CP1x6G+nJQPZxHN624juWqCu4zsyQc64fQDR747QXBRT3VfMD5/xPMJic M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAOl2dE+rRDoH/2dsb2JhbABDuRqBB4IJAQEBAwESASc/BQsLGC5XBhMJGYdjBAyfSpdAkDxjBJVhgRGNNYFogmk X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,668,1325462400"; d="scan'208";a="38123739" Received: from mtv-core-2.cisco.com ([171.68.58.7]) by mtv-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2012 14:54:09 +0000 Received: from sjc-vpn7-1060.cisco.com (sjc-vpn7-1060.cisco.com [10.21.148.36]) by mtv-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2TEs72c012389; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:54:08 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Matt Miller In-Reply-To: <4F747749.8020802@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:54:19 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6236C93E-77C6-4194-9332-44A1135D8DCF@cisco.com> References: <7A8EC320-1224-4A18-A9B1-DA7E9E693A6D@viagenie.ca> <4F747749.8020802@stpeter.im> To: Peter Saint-Andre X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.3.3 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: precis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [precis] 2012-03-29 precis wg minutes X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:54:10 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 29, 2012, at 16:52, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > On 3/29/12 3:45 PM, Marc Blanchet wrote: >> Minutes posted for our wg meeting today: = http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/minutes/minutes-83-precis.txt >>=20 >> Thanks to all minute takers. >=20 > Matt Miller did a great job -- there was a lot of back-and-forth at = the > mic so it wasn't easy. >=20 > I'll review them in more detail soon. >=20 I did what I could. It would really beneficial if people can fill in = the parts! - - m&m Matt Miller - Cisco Systems, Inc. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPdHebAAoJEJq6Ou0cgrSPwr8H/23jadb01FQcqY8o2wIyA2y/ 8FHZ+7bZ6ce8mGWA3XErKjg+IAcJnpykzYF/cSpVPKdSXv6T6KKnKC/VJs74CV5G Rj3Xw089kgU22xYC/c+E06W9mmgpnK3M23RQ4iKqyZoSSCcs0e/u5D7XtsNyYMvX MoUXKqmOprEv/w7szbagxEuXJlbUao5+uTzMhOtmLebKBqSBiwUMAe+XArEQIV7n Zq9Y5WUH7xq3yyHhCoVMQDPBzq19kwePQ+5rlqlcezIzCoGf7GUOSzVhagpZ3vq3 SqaS+Ugde908V7ofl8tTYh4JYtLxfK7CYaPicV7Iq92J2an6Psf0Holm+dcMJ7E=3D =3DzV7w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stpeter@stpeter.im Fri Mar 30 00:31:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C8721F8757 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:31:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.121, BAYES_05=-1.11, GB_I_LETTER=-2, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ptrq5-8gtCQI for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DDF21F8753 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-153f.meeting.ietf.org (unknown [64.103.25.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8B9394005B for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4F756143.2080606@stpeter.im> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:31:15 +0200 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "precis@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [precis] LetterDigits X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:31:18 -0000 During the meeting yesterday, Andrew inquired if all the codepoints with the following properties have compatibility equivalents: Lt (Titlecase Letter) Nl (Letter Number) No (Other Number) Me (Enclosing Mark) The answer is "no". Here are some examples: 1F88;GREEK CAPITAL LETTER ALPHA WITH PSILI AND PROSGEGRAMMENI;Lt;0;L;1F08 0345;;;;N;;;;1F80; 16EE;RUNIC ARLAUG SYMBOL;Nl;0;L;;;;17;N;;;;; 09F4;BENGALI CURRENCY NUMERATOR ONE;No;0;L;;;;1/16;N;;;;; 0488;COMBINING CYRILLIC HUNDRED THOUSANDS SIGN;Me;0;NSM;;;;;N;;;;; Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From stpeter@stpeter.im Fri Mar 30 00:55:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A1421F8800 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:55:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.732 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.732 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HZ5CUOPd-XV7 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF3021F87FF for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-153f.meeting.ietf.org (unknown [64.103.25.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F1F744005B; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4F7566D8.5010102@stpeter.im> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:55:04 +0200 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Miller References: <7A8EC320-1224-4A18-A9B1-DA7E9E693A6D@viagenie.ca> <4F747749.8020802@stpeter.im> <6236C93E-77C6-4194-9332-44A1135D8DCF@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <6236C93E-77C6-4194-9332-44A1135D8DCF@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 OpenPGP: url=https://stpeter.im/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: precis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [precis] 2012-03-29 precis wg minutes X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:55:08 -0000 On 3/29/12 4:54 PM, Matt Miller wrote: > > On Mar 29, 2012, at 16:52, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > >> On 3/29/12 3:45 PM, Marc Blanchet wrote: >>> Minutes posted for our wg meeting today: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/minutes/minutes-83-precis.txt >>> >>> Thanks to all minute takers. > >> Matt Miller did a great job -- there was a lot of back-and-forth at the >> mic so it wasn't easy. > >> I'll review them in more detail soon. > > > I did what I could. It would really beneficial if people can fill in the parts! A few fixes, by line number... 18 PK = Paul Kyzivat 27 s/limited/limiting/ 46 s/reqest/request/ 54 s/understant/understand/ 54 s/(??)// 86 s/responibility/responsibility/ 109 s/NFCK/NFKC/ 115 s/concensus/consensus/ 129 s/these U-labels/these as U-labels/ 134 s/Concensus/Consensus/ 163 s/Some mechanisms/Some SASL mechanisms/ 176 s/and is something/and it's something/ 193 s/RP/PR/ 197 s/RP/PR/ 204 s/Concensus/Consensus/ 212... LM: The other approach is to reconcile the IRI document with RFC. [I'm not sure which RFC Larry was citing here, but we can check the audio or ask him directly] 217 s/my IESG,/my IESG term,/ /psa From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Fri Mar 30 01:05:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF15C21F87D5 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:05:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.319 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.319 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Et+sE42CR4ao for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000:226:55ff:fe57:14db]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3159D21F87D3 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-51c6.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-51c6.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.81.198]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5A778400C8 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: <4F7566D8.5010102@stpeter.im> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:05:16 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2274B683-63E0-40FD-AC9A-A501C06B0539@viagenie.ca> References: <7A8EC320-1224-4A18-A9B1-DA7E9E693A6D@viagenie.ca> <4F747749.8020802@stpeter.im> <6236C93E-77C6-4194-9332-44A1135D8DCF@cisco.com> <4F7566D8.5010102@stpeter.im> To: precis@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Subject: Re: [precis] 2012-03-29 precis wg minutes X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:05:19 -0000 - again, thanks to the minute takes, specially Matt. - fixes below has just been uploaded. thanks. Marc. Le 2012-03-30 =E0 09:55, Peter Saint-Andre a =E9crit : > On 3/29/12 4:54 PM, Matt Miller wrote: >>=20 >> On Mar 29, 2012, at 16:52, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >>=20 >>> On 3/29/12 3:45 PM, Marc Blanchet wrote: >>>> Minutes posted for our wg meeting today: = http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/minutes/minutes-83-precis.txt >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks to all minute takers. >>=20 >>> Matt Miller did a great job -- there was a lot of back-and-forth at = the >>> mic so it wasn't easy. >>=20 >>> I'll review them in more detail soon. >>=20 >>=20 >> I did what I could. It would really beneficial if people can fill in = the parts! >=20 > A few fixes, by line number... >=20 > 18 PK =3D Paul Kyzivat >=20 > 27 s/limited/limiting/ >=20 > 46 s/reqest/request/ >=20 > 54 s/understant/understand/ >=20 > 54 s/(??)// >=20 > 86 s/responibility/responsibility/ >=20 > 109 s/NFCK/NFKC/ >=20 > 115 s/concensus/consensus/ >=20 > 129 s/these U-labels/these as U-labels/ >=20 > 134 s/Concensus/Consensus/ >=20 > 163 s/Some mechanisms/Some SASL mechanisms/ >=20 > 176 s/and is something/and it's something/ >=20 > 193 s/RP/PR/ >=20 > 197 s/RP/PR/ >=20 > 204 s/Concensus/Consensus/ >=20 > 212... >=20 > LM: The other approach is to reconcile the IRI document with = RFC. >=20 > [I'm not sure which RFC Larry was citing here, but we can check the > audio or ask him directly] >=20 > 217 s/my IESG,/my IESG term,/ >=20 > /psa