From psamp-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 01 06:16:34 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G7rIe-0002Mx-UM; Tue, 01 Aug 2006 06:16:32 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G7rId-0002I0-4x for psamp@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Aug 2006 06:16:31 -0400 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G7rIa-0004J7-LQ for psamp@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Aug 2006 06:16:31 -0400 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k71AFub00660 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2006 12:15:56 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6B553.8C7F3E83" Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 12:16:26 +0200 Message-ID: <804B13F8F3D94A4AB18B9B01ACB68FA12534B4@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <804B13F8F3D94A4AB18B9B01ACB68FA12534B4@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> Thread-Topic: PSAMP-PROTO comments Thread-Index: Aca1U4vq5VxwdSnhTEC09SpiB33/OA== From: "Tanja Zseby" To: "Benoit Claise" , "Juergen Quittek" , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 Cc: psamp Subject: [PSAMP] PSAMP-PROTO comments X-BeenThere: psamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "This mailing list is used for discussion within the IETF packet sampling \(PSAMP\) WG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: psamp-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6B553.8C7F3E83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Benoit, J=FCrgen and Andrew, I reviewed version 6 of the PSAMP-PROTO. I have only some minor = comments: ---- 1: Intro: " deterministic selection (filtering)" gives the impression = that all deterministic selection processes are called filtering, which = is not the case. Proposal: remove "(filtering)" --- 2: Section 3.3.1: As far as I know we agreed that we use the same = metering process definition for IPFIX and PSAMP. So the only difference = I see between PSAMP and IPFIX processes are the Information elements = that are reported. So I found section 3.3.1. a bit confusing. =20 --- 3: Section 4: I would add a sentence after the bullet points: "In the = following sections we investigate the differences between IPFIX and = PSAMP for each of those aspects." --- 4: Section 6: I would add an introduction in order to give an overview = for the reader. Here a proposal: In this section we describes the usage of the IPFIX protocol for PSAMP. = We describe the record formats and the additional requirements that must = be met. PSAMP uses two different types of messages: - Packet Reports - Report Interpretation=09 The format of Packet Reports is defined in IPFIX Template Record. The = PSAMP data is transferred as Information Elements (IEs) in IPFIX Data = Records as described by the Template Record. There are two different = types of Packet Reports. Basic Packet Report contain only the basic IEs = required for PSAMP reporting. Extended Packet Report MAY contain further = Information Elements. The format of Report Interpretations is defined in IPFIX Option Template = Record. The Information Elements (IEs) are transferred in IPFIX Data = Records as described by the Option Template Record. There are four = different types of Report Interpretation messages: - Selection Sequence Report Interpretation - Selector Report Interpretation - Selection Sequence Statistics Report Interpretation - Accuracy Report Interpretation A description and examples about the usage of those reports is given = below. --- 5: Section 6.4.1, second bullet point: I would re-arrange the sentences = so that it is clear, that a hash value only has to be reported if it is = generated: If there is a digest function in the selection sequence, the Packet = report MUST contain the hash value (digestHashValue) generated by the = digest hash function for each selected packet. If there is more than one digest function then each hash value must be = included in the same order as they appear in the selection sequence. =20 If there are no digest functions in the selection sequence no element = for the digest needs to be sent. =20 --- 6: section 6.5.3, paragraph 7: "The Attained Selection Fraction for the Selection Sequence is = calculated by dividing the number of observed packets (packetsObserved = Information Element) by the value of selected packets (packetsSelected = Information Element) for the last Selector." =20 was probably meant to be: "The Attained Selection Fraction for the Selection Sequence is = calculated by dividing the number of selected packets (packetsSelected = Information Element) for the last Selector by the number of observed = packets (packetsObserved Information Element)." =20 --- Typos, etc.: - section 5.1, last paragraph: "...IPFIX protocol specifications are = described in" =3D=3D> "...IPFIX protocol specifications described in"=20 - section 6.5.2.6, paragraph 12: "select those packets select those = packets"=20 Regards, Tanja ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6B553.8C7F3E83 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhwKAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAFBTQU1QLVBST1RPIGNvbW1l bnRzAMgGAQWAAwAOAAAA1gcIAAEADAAQABoAAgAeAQEggAMADgAAANYHCAABAAwAEAAbAAIAHwEB CYABACEAAABBMDgyNjk0MkE2MDU5QjQwQkJGQTcyMDAxRDBGQ0NBNAAlBwEDkAYAOAwAADEAAAAL AAIAAQAAAAMAJgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYGvwi1O1xgEeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAgFHAAEA AAAuAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1mb2t1cztsPUVYQ0hTUlYtMDYwODAxMTAxNjI3Wi0xNDQ0AAAAHgBw AAEAAAAVAAAAUFNBTVAtUFJPVE8gY29tbWVudHMAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAca1U4vq5VxwdSnh TEC09SpiB33/OAAAHgAaDAEAAAAMAAAAVGFuamEgWnNlYnkAHgAdDgEAAAAVAAAAUFNBTVAtUFJP VE8gY29tbWVudHMAAAAAAgEJEAEAAAALBwAABwcAADgPAABMWkZ1BtaznAMACgByY3BnMTI14jID Q3RleAVBAQMB908KgAKkA+MCAGNoCsBz8GV0MCAHEwKAD/MAUH8EVghVB7IRxQ5RAwEQxzL3BgAG wxHFMwRGEMkS2xHT2wjvCfc7GL8OMDURwgxgzmMAUAsJAWQzNhFQC6YgIEhpIEIJ8G9pQHQsIEpc JxDQcupnCfAgAHBkEWAe8BjAnHcsCqIKhAqASSAYwMp2CJB3CYAgdgSQAJABAiAgNiBvZiB0AGhl IFBTQU1QAC1QUk9UTy4gDyBQEPAhACGQbmx5IHZzA3Ah8G0LgAWxBaBt0weAAjBzOh+aLSWhH5Q8 MToi0AIwA2AmUCIg2wEADrByI/EEAHQN4COQnGVsBZAnoCFRKGYDEJMnIQuAZykm4GdpIQD3BCAh 0gdwcBjABBAhQiHQfmEFQAdAAyAnDygVKhBv3mMqMQeRCsAh8GMq8SDR0yiXHiB3aA3gaCngBCC/ HeAFQCHSLZARICLAUANg+HBvcwdAJlAYwARgIyHuIiiKJUcflDImUAZgKCSsMy4zoCZBQQQgZgrB +y/QItFrHeAH4CDAHtAJwvcfACqjNSF1ESAhwzBwI8L/K0Io8SymKyEokAMAKDMCEMEFwElQRklY HtMiE1kiwFNvIcMjU2QGkGa/BJAJ8CzgItERICHwYhEw/yDAHrEiEx7TORQsvCHSJnD/ONEAwCgz J/EkgyqVLWEYwL8wUAAgCYA6AyBQAhB1HvH3ESAzSSLAYTvgHgAkQT6gXzZAKPEiwArjMkkzMwg0 lyZRLqAIYGwfAGFkRgF3J9ECMDtDYQGAEyEh0mL/ReAoAAVAMFALgCSxJtAmcP8hwwIQKwA08Ddi QcUEIDUh9wuAKXEnoGcqwDZkOugEIPc79jkdOMNlANAu8CGjMGDJNTFzcCgRcy4x/kVxvTMmNkWN A6BIQQNgZBtw/ygzC4AhkAsgR0I6MClSUfL9MPFyIJI4wyHSGMBGIASQ/SLASDshQqEssTBUH5sq gv8vEUHGNSEBAATyO/AplDZA/zVQIzEhtD0XU5AYMTjDObX+V1ioVQUFoS3hPsMtMR7xHyHSRiE4 cwdAIGFxdWn7MME/mG02QAVAXKE3ETABvzyDNkEpkUXAOtcvYXlPAD8EICGhB4FZsiTHAZEgLesi AADQa0fxUkCDELBj6v9lFCZiBJAqEQGQKDJkMx+U/lRI8z7SIZJkrC8COCMg0ftTATkUVDDQC1FL EWUQXTL3IsBoUjx0ZCrAQrAvESaQXwBxOxEYwTRzPqlFP2Yo0ElFcylqyERtImv07y0xOAJY5B8A YiOAIdJrb39oUVXyPiJh72LzZKwiwEL/L9AnsWSrQwIBkFMCI2JHc393A2/hXyZdYzxlQHRDc0Uf DtAJ8AEAOZF3a01BWb94J0NAACBz8W5/JJIuZ//fIaFmX0n0ai85QU8FMCFC/3LfaFJ+f2+YPhNt qXA/cU//claDv3N/QWEFwHTPgO9nRP9jPmRxBmAoBgZgX1A7Q45vv2djkGwFsZIfky+RLVNnQo8n kgQglI+Vm0FjYwhw7wDQI4CYT5WYQVi1itQe4t8OwDbQC1AtIgbgdS9kWan/TqJAdIJTKVIDoDvw SVF/teUyDTVQeS40M9AeIEHB3wIgckFHyUWIGMAtCsBtof9Z0TaDRpVX8ToyKsFC4S8RvmMoAArA HiAqpCLxcy7w/nYHQApQI0SooVOCXKFAdr8p4CGwp2QeoQSQSwFkJNX+SSGzLWEvEUKwOuBjkQVA /0NAO1BStqYEKAYRIJGkqBKPIfFktEB0BdBVU1R4J6sh0qipKK1ESKixVqkC/3AQq2dyVq1FqKOt t03HJ+T/INEKsGTCf7WsagRgPiNUEv9qkK0/IdE/MU4SqKlgVguA/afAdXwSrkY20lM0qbIh4Pkj gGFwTwAKwa5Pr1ZDp/+sZy1SHeC53oJRv2+RlsJB/z9VVMetRWqQCYCpxkaCQ6fvMg1REUHGoxA1 M7AeIAqxVzVRvuAu8Dck1SJoUkHvAkALcSDRlmhGmmE4hyHS/5ZvrNMtkZpAhGJyQzrgIJDnOuA3 cSHSbnUG0BMhIaF8b2IRIFRwt0dvsdJVT//R1oV/AjBwEHJlqPUhsLbt/9K4zhTTv9TFVNYLYGBx k/b7T1DH3Hc0gSyxeUACYCOA/weAAHAvYanyJNvLj8yfza//zr/Pz9Dd1j/XT9hf2W+T939yZdEv 5P/TT9Rb2vglt1TPYsAwYB4gETBjLiTVZIC/QcbKEKNR2iPKZybBLvIQ/1p9TvIGkA3gggUtUom4 C4DxJuA9PT7x//MP9F3vvvHJ8jIuNspKDiAmwSfk/0516vb7D+sx+GYfmmUQSvBLiUEfhVQAcGph H5R9AQBwAB4ANRABAAAARQAAADw4MDRCMTNGOEYzRDk0QTRBQjE4QjlCMDFBQ0I2OEZBMTI1MzRC NEBFWENIU1JWLmZva3VzLmZyYXVuaG9mZXIuZGU+AAAAAAMAgBD/////HwDzEAEAAAAyAAAAUABT AEEATQBQAC0AUABSAE8AVABPACAAYwBvAG0AbQBlAG4AdABzAC4ARQBNAEwAAAAAAAsA9hAAAAAA QAAHMJMrbIxTtcYBQAAIMKefoIxTtcYBAwDeP69vAAADAPE/BwQAAB4A+D8BAAAADAAAAFRhbmph IFpzZWJ5AAIB+T8BAAAAWQAAAAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5CAArL+GCAQAAAAAAAAAvTz1GT0tVUy9P VT1FUlNURSBBRE1JTklTVFJBVElWRSBHUlVQUEUvQ049UkVDSVBJRU5UUy9DTj1UWlMAAAAAHgD6 PwEAAAAVAAAAU3lzdGVtIEFkbWluaXN0cmF0b3IAAAAAAgH7PwEAAAAeAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAa tLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC4AAAADAP0/5AQAAAMAGUAAAAAAAwAaQAAAAAAeADBAAQAAAAQAAABU WlMAHgAxQAEAAAAEAAAAVFpTAB4AOEABAAAABAAAAFRaUwAeADlAAQAAAAIAAAAuAAAAAwB2QP// //8DAAlZAQAAAAsAh4EIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwCfgQggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAAIfGAQAeAKCBCCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAUAAAAxMS4w AAAAAAMA64EIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwDwgQggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAPqBCCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAAYIIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAACwBoggggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAABoUAAAAAAAALAGmCCCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAACChQAAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAACwAjAAAAAAADAAYQTYKPgAMABxDpCgAA AwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhJQkVOT0lULEr8UkdFTkFOREFORFJFVyxJUkVW SUVXRURWRVJTSU9ONk9GVEhFUFNBTVAtUFJPVE9JSEFWRU9OTFlTT01FTUlOT1JDT01NRU5UUzot LS0tMTpJTlRSTzoiREUAAAAAAgF/AAEAAABFAAAAPDgwNEIxM0Y4RjNEOTRBNEFCMThCOUIwMUFD QjY4RkExMjUzNEI0QEVYQ0hTUlYuZm9rdXMuZnJhdW5ob2Zlci5kZT4AAAAA/ac= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6B553.8C7F3E83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ PSAMP mailing list PSAMP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/psamp ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6B553.8C7F3E83-- From psamp-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 07 13:00:56 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GA8TB-0005gf-L4; Mon, 07 Aug 2006 13:00:49 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GA8TB-0005ga-1h for psamp@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2006 13:00:49 -0400 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GA8T9-0005Td-LU for psamp@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2006 13:00:49 -0400 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k77H0Bb22653 for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:00:11 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:00:49 +0200 Message-ID: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B637A02B@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: two more selectorAlgorithm Thread-Index: Aca6Qwhi+yI8aKuCRUq+adbJpVKk2g== From: "Schmoll, Carsten" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Subject: [PSAMP] two more selectorAlgorithm X-BeenThere: psamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "This mailing list is used for discussion within the IETF packet sampling \(PSAMP\) WG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: psamp-bounces@ietf.org =20 Dear authors of [PSAMP-INFO] + [PSAMP-PROTO], =20 I recently read above documents and would like to extend the list of selector algorithms with two=20 new algorithms: * Random 1-in-k sampling (spatial) where from every consequitive k packets within=20 a selector's input stream one is selected at random. and * Random 1-in-T sampling (temporal) where from all packets within a selector's input observed within the interval T one packet is selected at random. (current selector algorithm list is in [PSAMP-INFO], section 9.2.5 selectorAlgorithm) In case you should agree to include these two in the=20 list I can supply a description for [PSAMP-INFO] and for [PSAMP-PROTO], section 6.5.2 Selector Report Interpretation with the needed selector parameters and examples. Thanks for your consideration. Comments? Best regards, Carsten. =20 -- "The difference between theory and practice is that in theory theory and practice are the same but in practice they are not." Dipl.Ing. Carsten Schmoll Fraunhofer Institute FOKUS schmoll@fokus.fraunhofer.de National Research Institute Fraunhofer FOKUS / dept. ANTS for Open Communication Systems Tel: +49-30-3463-7136 Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 Fax: +49-30-3463-8000 D-10589 Berlin, Germany _______________________________________________ PSAMP mailing list PSAMP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/psamp From psamp-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 07 18:56:33 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GAE1P-000316-QQ; Mon, 07 Aug 2006 18:56:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GAE1O-00030y-Hy for psamp@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2006 18:56:30 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GAE1N-0000VB-8s for psamp@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2006 18:56:30 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Aug 2006 18:56:29 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.07,220,1151899200"; d="scan'208"; a="95555491:sNHT25953288" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k77MuStU022916; Mon, 7 Aug 2006 18:56:28 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k77MuS7e019232; Tue, 8 Aug 2006 00:56:28 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.61.81.221] (ams3-vpn-dhcp4574.cisco.com [10.61.81.221]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20077; Mon, 7 Aug 2006 23:45:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <44D7C26E.4010607@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 23:45:02 +0100 From: Andrew Johnson User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Schmoll, Carsten" Subject: Re: [PSAMP] two more selectorAlgorithm References: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B637A02B@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B637A02B@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; l=2108; t=1154991388; x=1155855388; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=andrjohn@cisco.com; z=From:Andrew=20Johnson=20 |Subject:Re=3A=20[PSAMP]=20two=20more=20selectorAlgorithm |To:=22Schmoll,=20Carsten=22=20; X=v=3Dcisco.com=3B=20h=3DtRq29XU0kEHxwot85UuOm6c4KIk=3D; b=mn7+Y/LtxWIzKhj9yGOlpgSXawc4Y9BFcr8Mzz+YlHppBLWmueolAAUeMkJXlf1cKoxWNn0U 1HopYySdAaXbdjHtxjfbw63KbQoPtSatR/cyUZYzNCx3syH3U/uXwtbU; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com; header.From=andrjohn@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Cc: psamp@ietf.org X-BeenThere: psamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "This mailing list is used for discussion within the IETF packet sampling \(PSAMP\) WG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: psamp-bounces@ietf.org Hello Carsten Please see some comments inline. Schmoll, Carsten wrote: > > Dear authors of [PSAMP-INFO] + [PSAMP-PROTO], > > I recently read above documents and would like to > extend the list of selector algorithms with two > new algorithms: > > * Random 1-in-k sampling (spatial) > > where from every consequitive k packets within > a selector's input stream one is selected at random. How is this different from n-out-of-N, where n = 1 and N = k? > and > > * Random 1-in-T sampling (temporal) > > where from all packets within a selector's input > observed within the interval T one packet is selected > at random. How do you scale this method to gain information about the parent population? For example, if T = 10 seconds and the traffic is a single stream sending 1000 pps, it would generate the same results as if the stream were sending 1 pps. Temporal sampling could scale if you sampled a window of t milliseconds every interval T. e.g. 100ms out of 1 second. regards Andrew > (current selector algorithm list is in [PSAMP-INFO], > section 9.2.5 selectorAlgorithm) > > In case you should agree to include these two in the > list I can supply a description for [PSAMP-INFO] and > for [PSAMP-PROTO], section 6.5.2 Selector Report Interpretation > with the needed selector parameters and examples. > > Thanks for your consideration. > Comments? > > Best regards, > Carsten. > > > -- > "The difference between theory and practice is that in theory > theory and practice are the same but in practice they are not." > > Dipl.Ing. Carsten Schmoll Fraunhofer Institute FOKUS > schmoll@fokus.fraunhofer.de National Research Institute > Fraunhofer FOKUS / dept. ANTS for Open Communication Systems > Tel: +49-30-3463-7136 Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 > Fax: +49-30-3463-8000 D-10589 Berlin, Germany > > > > _______________________________________________ > PSAMP mailing list > PSAMP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/psamp _______________________________________________ PSAMP mailing list PSAMP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/psamp From psamp-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 08 04:41:16 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GAN9D-000479-9v; Tue, 08 Aug 2006 04:41:11 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GAN9C-000474-6L for psamp@ietf.org; Tue, 08 Aug 2006 04:41:10 -0400 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GAN9A-0005cG-PX for psamp@ietf.org; Tue, 08 Aug 2006 04:41:10 -0400 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k788eSb00598; Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:40:28 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [PSAMP] two more selectorAlgorithm Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:41:05 +0200 Message-ID: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B637A045@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PSAMP] two more selectorAlgorithm Thread-Index: Aca6dMq11p9rpJMMT2Ohm2CXJX3M2QATtIbA From: "Schmoll, Carsten" To: "Andrew Johnson" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Cc: psamp@ietf.org X-BeenThere: psamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "This mailing list is used for discussion within the IETF packet sampling \(PSAMP\) WG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: psamp-bounces@ietf.org Dear Andrew, please see my reply inline (some oroginal text deleted).=20 > > * Random 1-in-k sampling (spatial) >=20 > How is this different from n-out-of-N, where n =3D 1 and N =3D k? You're right - it isn't. Tell it to the fact that everytime I read a paper about sampling n-out-of-N, n is always >> 1. So for PSAMP a separate 1-in-k is redundant. > > * Random 1-in-T sampling (temporal) > >=20 > > where from all packets within a selector's input > > observed within the interval T one packet is selected > > at random. >=20 > How do you scale this method to gain information about the > parent population? For example, if T =3D 10 seconds and the > traffic is a single stream sending 1000 pps, it would generate > the same results as if the stream were sending 1 pps. Yes, thats true too. You don't scale this method to the parent=20 population thus resulting in a very diverse attained selection fraction. For some measurements (e.g. QoS estimation) this is just fine. The requirement there might be: I'd like to sample 3.000 packets=20 per minute from the stream (regardless of there being 30.000 or=20 300.000 packets in the stream).=20 That is not possible with any of the other methods as far as I see. Therefore I would like to keep 1-in-T as one new selector algorithm. > Temporal sampling could scale if you sampled a window of > t milliseconds every interval T. e.g. 100ms out of 1 second. Correct, that would be Random time-based sampling, where the start of the interval t would be a random time in between 0 and T-t from the beginning of the interval T. That leaves us with the two (different than before) additions: * Random 1-in-T sampling * Random time-based sampling Ok? Best regards, Carsten. _______________________________________________ PSAMP mailing list PSAMP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/psamp From psamp-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 08 05:04:11 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GANVS-0008PV-IP; Tue, 08 Aug 2006 05:04:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GANVR-0008PQ-31 for psamp@ietf.org; Tue, 08 Aug 2006 05:04:09 -0400 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GANVP-0000rx-Lt for psamp@ietf.org; Tue, 08 Aug 2006 05:04:09 -0400 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k7893Sb04397; Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:03:28 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [PSAMP] two more selectorAlgorithm Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:04:05 +0200 Message-ID: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B637A048@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PSAMP] two more selectorAlgorithm Thread-Index: Aca6dMq11p9rpJMMT2Ohm2CXJX3M2QATtIbAAAFP9IA= From: "Schmoll, Carsten" To: "Schmoll, Carsten" , "Andrew Johnson" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: psamp@ietf.org X-BeenThere: psamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "This mailing list is used for discussion within the IETF packet sampling \(PSAMP\) WG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: psamp-bounces@ietf.org > The requirement there might be: I'd like to sample 3.000 packets=20 > per minute from the stream (regardless of there being 30.000 or=20 > 300.000 packets in the stream).=20 Ah, dear me: the correct example must be I'd like to sample one packet every 20 msec, selected closest to a random time offset inside each 20 msec interval (regardless of there being 10 or 100 packets per interval in the stream). Regards, Carsten. _______________________________________________ PSAMP mailing list PSAMP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/psamp From psamp-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 15 03:49:38 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GCtg6-0008RY-N8; Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:49:34 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GCtg5-0008RT-Ph for psamp@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:49:33 -0400 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GCtg4-0007QL-AN for psamp@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:49:33 -0400 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k7F7mfb13244; Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:48:42 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [PSAMP] two more selectorAlgorithm Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:49:21 +0200 Message-ID: <804B13F8F3D94A4AB18B9B01ACB68FA132CC7D@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PSAMP] two more selectorAlgorithm Thread-Index: Aca6dMq11p9rpJMMT2Ohm2CXJX3M2QATtIbAAV7eRlA= From: "Tanja Zseby" To: "Schmoll, Carsten" , "Andrew Johnson" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Cc: psamp@ietf.org X-BeenThere: psamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "This mailing list is used for discussion within the IETF packet sampling \(PSAMP\) WG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: psamp-bounces@ietf.org Hi Carsten, PSAMP-INFO just describes the IEs for the sampling schemes defined in the PSAMP-TECH document (draft-ietf-psamp-sample-tech-07.txt). Of course there are many more sampling schemes possible, but for PSAMP-TECH we decided to concentrate on the most basic schemes to make it not too complex for now (e.g. we also have a quite limited filter-definition). So I wouldnt add further schemes unless there are very good arguments why exactly these scheme are required now. I also think it is easy to add further schemes in future in case vendors use/require them. Regards, Tanja > -----Original Message----- > From: Schmoll, Carsten [mailto:Carsten.Schmoll@fokus.fraunhofer.de]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:41 AM > To: Andrew Johnson > Cc: psamp@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [PSAMP] two more selectorAlgorithm >=20 >=20 > Dear Andrew, >=20 > please see my reply inline (some oroginal text deleted).=20 >=20 > > > * Random 1-in-k sampling (spatial) > >=20 > > How is this different from n-out-of-N, where n =3D 1 and N =3D k? >=20 > You're right - it isn't. Tell it to the fact that everytime I=20 > read a paper about sampling n-out-of-N, n is always >> 1. > So for PSAMP a separate 1-in-k is redundant. >=20 > > > * Random 1-in-T sampling (temporal) > > >=20 > > > where from all packets within a selector's input observed=20 > within the=20 > > > interval T one packet is selected at random. > >=20 > > How do you scale this method to gain information about the parent=20 > > population? For example, if T =3D 10 seconds and the traffic is a=20 > > single stream sending 1000 pps, it would generate the same=20 > results as=20 > > if the stream were sending 1 pps. >=20 > Yes, thats true too. You don't scale this method to the=20 > parent population thus resulting in a very diverse attained=20 > selection fraction. >=20 > For some measurements (e.g. QoS estimation) this is just fine. > The requirement there might be: I'd like to sample 3.000=20 > packets per minute from the stream (regardless of there being=20 > 30.000 or 300.000 packets in the stream).=20 > That is not possible with any of the other methods as far as I see. > Therefore I would like to keep 1-in-T as one new selector algorithm. >=20 > > Temporal sampling could scale if you sampled a window of t=20 > > milliseconds every interval T. e.g. 100ms out of 1 second. >=20 > Correct, that would be Random time-based sampling, where the=20 > start of the interval t would be a random time in between 0=20 > and T-t from the beginning of the interval T. >=20 > That leaves us with the two (different than before) additions: >=20 > * Random 1-in-T sampling > * Random time-based sampling >=20 > Ok? >=20 > Best regards, > Carsten. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > PSAMP mailing list > PSAMP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/psamp >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ PSAMP mailing list PSAMP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/psamp