From owner-psamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 1 08:13:22 2005 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA22475 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:13:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.44 (FreeBSD)) id 1DHLt0-000984-MO for psamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 13:08:30 +0000 Received: from [195.101.245.16] (helo=p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44 (FreeBSD)) id 1DHLsy-00097k-Se for psamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 13:08:29 +0000 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by parsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:08:10 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: middlebox metrics Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:08:09 +0200 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: middlebox metrics Thread-Index: AcU13GVXouJJ5fywTHOtQyxxoY8/CAA0qBMQ From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Benoit Claise" , "Juergen Quittek" Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2005 13:08:10.0205 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA78A0D0:01C536BB] X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_05 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 Sender: owner-psamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Benoit and Juergen, > > > >It is clear that IPFIX is suitable to export binary data such as > measurement results (either active or passive). > > > >Having common templates and clear metrics definitions is the only way to > increase the usability, interoperability and the scalability of the > collecting part of measurement systems. > > > > > Agreed on the clear metrics definitions, this is the IPPM WG job. IPPM will probably be happy to do the job if PSAMP WG asks for it. What is the position of PSAMP chairs?=20 Regards Emile -- to unsubscribe send a message to psamp-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-psamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 7 23:56:06 2005 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA08585 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.44 (FreeBSD)) id 1DJkW3-0003VH-D7 for psamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 03:50:43 +0000 Received: from [195.37.70.21] (helo=kyoto.netlab.nec.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44 (FreeBSD)) id 1DJkVy-0003UW-OH for psamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 03:50:40 +0000 Received: from dialin-145-254-222-170.arcor-ip.net (dialin-145-254-222-170.arcor-ip.net [145.254.222.170]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D8CF1BAC4D for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:50:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 05:50:23 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: psamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: PSAMP minutes of IETF #62 Message-ID: <6E9AF4094B2691D016BCE866@dialin-145-254-222-170.arcor-ip.net> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 Sender: owner-psamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, Below please find the minutes of our last session. Thanks, Juergen --=20 Juergen Quittek quittek@netlab.nec.de Tel: +49 6221 90511-15 NEC Europe Ltd., Network Laboratories Fax: +49 6221 90511-55 Kurfuersten-Anlage 36, 69115 Heidelberg, Germany http://www.netlab.nec.de =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Minutes of the PSAMP BOF session at IETF 62 Thursday March 10, 16:45 h - 17:45 h =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Packet Sampling Working Group Chairs: Andy Bierman Juergen Quittek Minutes taken by Ralf Wolter 0. Session Summary 1. PSAMP WG Status 2. Update of Packet Selection 3. PSAMP MIB 4. Continuation of work on PSAMP protocol ---------------- Discussed Internet drafts A Framework for Passive Packet Measurement http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-psamp-framework-10.txt Sampling and Filtering Techniques for IP Packet Selection http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-psamp-sample-tech-06.txt Definitions of Managed Objects for Packet Sampling http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-psamp-mib-04.txt ---------------- 0. Session Summary The PSAMP framework document is ready to be submitted to the IESG. The packet selection document completed WG last call and the next version will include all agreed changes. Both documents will be submitted together as soon as the next version of the packet selection document is available. The MIB module still has open issues. Solutions for several issues were found during the session. A new version fixing all current is planned for June. WG last call on this document is planned to close at IETF63. The protocol document and info model document are expired. The IPFIX WG plans to submit the corresponding IPFIX document by March to the IESG. At this time work on the two PSAMP documents will start again. A stable version was planned for IETF63 and WG last call in September 2005. ---------------- 1. PSAMP WG Status (Juergen) The PSAMP framework document passed WG last call. It will be forwarded to the IESG together with the Packet Selection draft, for which WG last call will close at the end of the IETF meeting. Protocol and info model are on hold until IPFIX completes the corresponding documents. These=20 drafts are expired. The PSAMP MIB is progressing. ---------------- 2. Sampling and Filtering Techniques (Tanja Zseby) draft-ietf-psamp-sample-tech-06.txt Tanja reported changes since the last version including several clarifications and harmonization of terminology. The only technical=20 change was limiting combinations of filters to AND combinations only. OR combinations are not supported anymore. Some minor edits are still required. Beyond this, the only open issue is the discussion of hash functions. Implementing hash functions is not mandatory, but if they are supported, then the recommended one SHOULD be supported. The current version recommends IPSX for packet selection and CRC for packet digest. IPSX does not work for IPv6, but for IPv4 it is=20 7 times faster than BOB. But BOB works well for IPv6. BOB performs similarly to CRC for packet digest. After some discussions, it was agreed to recommend BOB for both, packet selection and packet digest. IPSX and CRC will be optional. Tanja suggested proposing the investigation of an optimal hash function for IPv6 as work item for the IRTF IMRG. ---------------- 3. PSAMP MIB (Benoit Claise) draft-ietf-psamp-mib-04.txt Benoit explained that the main changed since the previous version was the completion of modelling all filter and sampling functions. Additionally, several clarifications were applied and terminology was harmonized. Still there is a significant list of open issues. The document needs more diagrams and examples to explain the interconnection of different parts of=20 the MIB. An entity relationship diagram should be added. =20 References with object IDs must be explained, especially pointers and their relationship to the functions and input parameters a new section is required. Hash filtering is the most difficult part in the draft, it is still not=20 finally decided how to integrate hash filtering into the MIB. Should more=20 hash functions be supported? Benoit=92s proposal was limiting the complexity. Should all hash parameter functions be implemented in the MIB? This has=20 security issues, as a simple snmpwalk would provide all details and could=20 lead to a potential attack. The problem is that knowledge about the hash=20 functions parameter could result in an attack against the collector (either=20 to avoid collection or to make sure certain packet patterns are collected). [Juergen] SNMPv3 would solve the issue. But how many customers use SNMPv3? The description of RowStatus objects must clearly state the minimum sets of=20 objects per table. Row state filtering: today there is one big table,=20 sub-tables would make the implementation easier. Still multiple editorial changes are required.=20 [Juergen] It would be very helpful to add usage examples required that=20 clarify the sequence of actions how to setup a filter by using=20 tables etc. ---------------- 4. Continuation of work on PSAMP protocol The following milestones were discussed and agreed. The WG charter page needs to be updated accordingly. May 05: framework and sample tech to IESG Jun 05: new version of the MIB that fixes the current issue IETF63: stable version of protocol and info model for next meeting;=20 IETF63: last call on MIB Sep 05: last call on protocol and info model -- to unsubscribe send a message to psamp-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: