Subject: Re: [Roll] The word Up!

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 20:38:28 -0400

{my appologies for time warp email, I'm cleaning out my RPL unread folder...}

>>>>> "Philip" == Philip Levis <[email-masked]> writes:
    >>> I suggest that we might want to come up with a different term
    >>> than "move" to describe topology changes.
    >> Makes sense.
    >> 
    >> If you change
    >> 
    >> Root / \ A B / C
    >> 
    >> By C--A--Root--B, now things move left <-> right, no more up and
    >> down.
    >> 
    >> I believe the whole movement concept is confusing.

    Philip> What terminology do you think would be better?

    Philip> The notion of up/down and shallower/deeper are basic
    Philip> terminology in tree data structures and algorithms. E.g.,
    Philip> depth first search.

The issue I have is that the nodes usually do not move in physical space.
There are situations where they *do*, and it's important to distinguish
this.

    Philip> "Move" could be "change its position within the DODAG?"

I suggest that we a term like "reattach" or something like that.
Or some other synonym for move.  What was it called in M.A.S.H. when
they had to invoke the "Mobile" part of the name?  

-- 
]       He who is tired of Weird Al is tired of life!           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] [email-masked] http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
   Kyoto Plus: watch the video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzx1ycLXQSE>
	               then sign the petition.

---

From: JP Vasseur <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:41:11 +0200

> There are situations where they *do*, and it's important to  

Not sure I could change the "move" terminology though ... it used  
widely used in
the document and lots of emails. Not a strong opinion, just a 0.2 cent  
feed-back.

>   Kyoto Plus: watch the video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzx1ycLXQSE 
> >
> 	               then sign the petition.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

---

From: Yoav Ben-Yehezkel <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:33:53 +0300

Maybe define in the terminology or introduction:
Spatial movement - RPL can be used by mobile nodes, but this movement will
not be discussed/affect explicitly RPL nodes.
Topology movement - where the terms up/down in the RPL spec mean:....

BTW - just a thought - should spatial movement capability be an explicit
part of the OF/metric definitions in the metrics draft as a special object
(for example, describing speed, heading, azimuth, etc.), such as Node
Energy (NE), or is this a TLV for example in the Node State/Attribute
(NSA)?

Best regards,
Yoav

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Michael Richardson
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 3:38 AM
To: ROLL WG
Subject: Re: [Roll] The word Up!

{my appologies for time warp email, I'm cleaning out my RPL unread
folder...}

-- 
]       He who is tired of Weird Al is tired of life!           |
firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net
architect[
] [email-masked] http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device
driver[
   Kyoto Plus: watch the video
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzx1ycLXQSE>
	               then sign the petition.

---

From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:45:30 +0200

> Topology movement - where the terms up/down in the RPL spec mean:....
 
[Pascal] 
Agreed. RPL can be used by mobile nodes. They will probably rather build
trees than DAGs (see MANEMO).

> BTW - just a thought - should spatial movement capability be an
explicit part of
> the OF/metric definitions in the metrics draft as a special object
(for example,
> describing speed, heading, azimuth, etc.), such as Node Energy (NE),
or is this a
> TLV for example in the Node State/Attribute (NSA)?

[Pascal] 
Great point. When applying this sort of technology to cars or trains
(e.g. ITS), we found that the capability to detect nodes along a same
trajectory was crucial, in order to setup peerings that would persist
enough to enable classical interaction. Also, when using GPS and common
topological maps, it is possible to advertise "going along road 109",
which is another way of qualifying a direction. It could even be
possible to affect 8::/3 prefixes to routes for the purpose of local
addressing (like Autoconf and CoA) and document that in the GPS tables.
As far as RPL is concerned, this is left open for new metrics drafts to
dig in. 

folder...}
> There are situations where they *do*, and it's important to
distinguish this.
> Or some other synonym for move.  What was it called in M.A.S.H. when
they
> had to invoke the "Mobile" part of the name?
> 
> --

---

From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:45:30 -0500

WARNING: contains banned part

Subject: Re: [Roll] The word Up!
From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <[email-masked]>
To: "Yoav Ben-Yehezkel" <[email-masked]>, "Michael Richardson" <[email-masked]>, "ROLL WG" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:45:30 -0500

 
[Pascal] 

explicit part of
(for example,
or is this a

[Pascal] 

folder...}
distinguish this.
they