From nobody Tue May 1 23:31:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E5012D86D; Tue, 1 May 2018 23:31:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.79.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152524266751.11075.10702907624727750734@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 May 2018 23:31:07 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-23.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2018 06:31:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : When to use RFC 6553, 6554 and IPv6-in-IPv6 Authors : Maria Ines Robles Michael C. Richardson Pascal Thubert Filename : draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-23.txt Pages : 46 Date : 2018-05-01 Abstract: This document looks at different data flows through LLN (Low-Power and Lossy Networks) where RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-Power and Lossy Networks) is used to establish routing. The document enumerates the cases where RFC 6553, RFC 6554 and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation is required. This analysis provides the basis on which to design efficient compression of these headers. This document updates RFC 6553 adding a change to the RPL Option Type. Additionally, this document updates RFC 6550 to indicate about this change and updates RFC8138 as well to consider the new Option Type when RPL Option is decompressed. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-23 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-23 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-23 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed May 2 15:49:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4409212DFDB for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 15:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 276-CnQoCoYC for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 15:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFFB612DDD0 for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 15:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C88320091 for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 19:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id EF6872B8D; Wed, 2 May 2018 18:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED41C18A0 for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 18:49:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2018 22:49:32 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rahul Arvind Jadhav wrote: > module doing such (relatively) frequent writes). Also RPL signaling > does not allow multiple state information to be clubbed together and = do > a single write(write is in terms of pages and thus not good for less > number of bytes). The question is, Is it possible for RPL signaling to > reduce persistent write at the cost of adding some signaling during > node boot (at-least for 6LRs and 6LNs). Node reboot will be relatively > rare-occurrence (or at-least much less frequent) and thus the cost of > additional signaling bits might be worth it (?). Also I feel new RPL > extensions should consider this and do not commit to persistent stora= ge > more frequently. I think that I don't remember why a node needs to save the DTSN across reboots. (I hate being away from code for so long that I forget these things, I wish I could spend more time writing code) I think that in storing mode, that a node can set it's DTSN to whatever val= ue is sees in the parents' DIO, and increment from there. I'm confused as to why any node other than the root needs it to be stored in flash? I do not think it should be required to store info in flash. (OSPF doesn't require this...) This also makes it hard to replace hardware in the field, or do firmware updates if we have to keep this kind of data around. Can we expand 7.1 to better explain what is written, and why? =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEVAwUBWupAboCLcPvd0N1lAQKkpAf9G4I4I6EFKh3jFUizXe5Mo4Gdyss0UAgk fv3MocVPATkqPmRoL3Mhc8yMiPwtfEtrYkfiPs6V8KP3O6Da51AnXmv+s4TmfZOU EIJmIozwRmlB+/iJhs7G9vL7WNuPmwE4h9eA4AjmpjTtV2OYiyQcBGQUrMF4C21v mkxGnbWfB68goW52Rw5J5eoP+s6dOBUnfPbXkhOyMYY6+qCLRzCt1RgmONFsYN1K Hl73A/ew6iMeIGUQ7On9LhXW/vHYKTkj8K/7JSHknPiudAnERNlZ7yP5Wg7rIroD WNPWAAUmhL8R1Zve3GQWZGkDnrMKaHTHptvxnKnVC8BeXkCeEj5HqQ== =Cbgf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed May 2 17:41:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669C3127078 for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 17:41:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MS8-4bZducmc for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 17:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x235.google.com (mail-vk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDB52127241 for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x235.google.com with SMTP id j7-v6so10079166vkc.9 for ; Wed, 02 May 2018 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1eOhZNsyI5IZ71a1ce3PM1yglG8CKxPB0DcQuwJKrXw=; b=jTpHW0Kf2QoCjNY4NmNNSCVV8AwN4M17Mck41VTSWXOk16vVudEfNiCRCgp9PT/yDm YhwAwvWIUmPHRYfqd/oPsY8Ga60pYrehnnrK2Wg1bZd3YwfNSiiJXshn9AfM7yumKRsO f4PT2Ss2UsVh6rAxIHBHI9zJ9ZPOPqUoKTWwei1lpEwenWVfkZJlWVxSvI4A6vgJ19yJ ZIoEY9teDNZuRvQbkl5uHN5ujE6uNX/Oq7uF/RE1uNWvcwd9Byk3ofEfyuKF5kM9nEiR 9+D/Qn38Ljg5ffM1cl9LH2rfWMSG+bxWN7CQV9iFdjOph0hS0zPw9aiv/EklGvp8CYIY GY6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=1eOhZNsyI5IZ71a1ce3PM1yglG8CKxPB0DcQuwJKrXw=; b=Tph/KlgqvFv+SzNHlvp1p1RQN6uMW47bioMv8z6A+Z3Rm1VSjcZu7LQcBOIpb84dcP eW1LDgkxc0EdnubUBqA+ZQryJKMCvicoxOwPLYSIlU27r/EFUaCXFqgN9NDC5bEq+4mv p4S3wjPb29U1rH2Q7q4YBGKU8uIXGPTxFt8GtZeSUv37rhlhaKYVrTjGWhBHNtGeOEkY dtxZFZCdJGEKS0wVhTlPYgAcjdxZeeoToJex2QxL5tm3GF/L9tASqij66etAPb+ukP90 RnBkVflY1IAlmE0915APyEFHglCWLEPhjpxlYOvW23ojdq4qQuQHuu3sdnyMfcqkEZeo X3zg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tCPAcEgI6ZhBqR9E/wQBcjeVebML6tE9YqYeWVa7mXMb3Z9jLye kiWrMFMHbA6HZ4vYw4uQsD9el5Y+aoTT6eceuyA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZqD5VJyr6ljSNm91Vien5eL8+rR4Vz8rnMhXR1j7j16oBPIYTWxsrgng7qYrJeC0PzACs70YXkdCceohlNNStE= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:5e51:: with SMTP id s78-v6mr16731954vkb.140.1525308091703; Wed, 02 May 2018 17:41:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> In-Reply-To: <22477.1525301358@localhost> From: Rahul Jadhav Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 00:41:21 +0000 Message-ID: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000faa7a9056b42766c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 00:41:35 -0000 --000000000000faa7a9056b42766c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, 3 May 2018 at 4:49 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > I think that I don't remember why a node needs to save the DTSN across > reboots. [RJ] dtsn is for triggering the dao from downstream nodes. If the child nodes do not see a new dtsn from the parent then they won't send dao and thus routing state for the (sub)childs won't be added for any child nodes on the restarted 6lr. An example,.... the 6lr dtsn was 245 when it got restarted and on restart it sets its dtsn to default 240... Now the child nodes (they have stored 245) don't respond to the DIOs because they see an older dtsn(value 240). Thus no DAOs are triggered causing no routing state to be installed on restarted 6lr for the (sub)childs resulting in unavailability of downstream path to the subdodag rooted at that 6lr. (I hate being away from code for so long that I forget these > things, I wish I could spend more time writing code) > > I think that in storing mode, that a node can set it's DTSN to whatever > value > is sees in the parents' DIO, and increment from there. [RJ] i do not think that a node infers or should infer its dtsn from parents dio... Per section 7.2 of 6550, the default dtsn should be set to 240 (assuming sequence window of 16). > > I'm confused as to why any node other than the root needs it to be stored > in > flash? I do not think it should be required to store info in flash. [RJ] this is true only for non storing mop but for storing mop the 6lrs needs to remember for the reason mentioned above. > > (OSPF doesn't require this...) > This also makes it hard to replace hardware in the field, or do firmware > updates if we have to keep this kind of data around. [RJ]true > > > Can we expand 7.1 to better explain what is written, and why? [RJ] sure will do. > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh > networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network > architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on > rails [ > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > --000000000000faa7a9056b42766c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, 3 May 2018 at= 4:49 AM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

I think that I don't remember why a node needs to save the DTSN across<= br> reboots.=C2=A0

[= RJ] dtsn is for triggering the dao from downstream nodes. If the child node= s do not see a new dtsn from the parent then they won't send dao and th= us routing state for the (sub)childs won't be added for any child nodes= =C2=A0on the restarted 6lr.=C2=A0
An example,.... t= he 6lr dtsn was 245 when it got restarted and on restart it sets its dtsn t= o default 240... Now the child nodes (they have stored 245) don't respo= nd to the DIOs because they see an older dtsn(value 240). Thus no DAOs are = triggered causing no routing state to be installed on restarted 6lr for the= (sub)childs resulting in unavailability of downstream path to the subdodag= rooted at that 6lr.

(I hate being away from code for so long that I forget these
things, I wish I could spend more time writing code)

I think that in storing mode, that a node can set it's DTSN to whatever= value
is sees in the parents' DIO, and increment from there.

[RJ] i do not think that a node i= nfers or should infer its dtsn from parents dio... Per section 7.2 of 6550,= the default dtsn should be set to 240 (assuming sequence window of 16).



I'm confused as to why any node other than the root needs it to be stor= ed in
flash?=C2=A0 =C2=A0I do not think it should be required to store info in fl= ash.

[RJ] this is= true only for non storing mop but for storing mop the 6lrs needs to rememb= er for the reason mentioned above.

(OSPF doesn't require this...)
This also makes it hard to replace hardware in the field, or do firmware updates if we have to keep this kind of data around.

[RJ]true=C2=A0


Can we expand 7.1 to better explain what is written, and why?
<= div dir=3D"auto">
[RJ] sure will do.=C2=A0



--
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Never tell me the o= dds!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| ipv6 me= sh networks [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 | network architect=C2=A0 [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= mcr@sandelman.ca=C2=A0 http://www.sandelman.ca/=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0ruby on rails=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [


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power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling Thread-Index: AQHTwciVQsGzK7ypcECrCDATupfKUqQOrAGAgA7z2gCAAB9OgIAAIbNA Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 07:47:21 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Thu, 3 May 2018 07:46:50 +0000 Message-ID: <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.228.216.15] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762XCHRCD001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over 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AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 426F7120454 for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 06:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B836420090 for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 09:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id D51A72B81; Thu, 3 May 2018 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D472C268B for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 13:30:43 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Rebooting within the lollipop is really bad luck; the whole point of > the lollipop is to detect intermittent reboots and not force to store > the sequence in flash.=20 > Note that you do not need to start from default 240, you may restart > from, say, 250. Or you may increase the sequence by more than one. All > that to stay less in the straight piece of the lollipop. I don't understand why a node can't take the DTSN from it's parent as it's base value.=20=20 =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEVAwUBWusO9ICLcPvd0N1lAQLSiwgAqMMkpL4Zq6cCj7Jy1cXLM24uOMP+IhY+ NmaQSAGf3nuEPwTc3LAd3P3iJAkEU2wkFSqULY6c3nuwiklQHa3C+bkiAn/GMfGZ eaW16YFZ+FS1mPJdwFN1cPANktp847mAQo6frd7Dak57AGQuK7UVfamD78J9mpru VwgyDzWq42xFklpczRm4L+ys6Xs8EldP1kiOtSl+rsSelJUS2nTumyocPhw0XiBz pVid7CsS0mV14hiPlF79ZvAKNsmGMCX9IEiZM4VWLiLr6sXpvi/imot2XvurS0ot JXrTf/BNWvKJHu8cw4Aed1jR1zGV4rIYs3pZ+5FgMmGYMxn7MGK/Tw== =ZV9G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu May 3 06:37:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1661270AE for ; 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Thu, 3 May 2018 13:37:43 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 3 May 2018 08:37:42 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 3 May 2018 08:37:42 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling Thread-Index: AQHTwciVQsGzK7ypcECrCDATupfKUqQOrAGAgA7z2gCAAB9OgIAAIbNAgAC1MQD//61tkA== Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 13:37:30 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Thu, 3 May 2018 13:36:57 +0000 Message-ID: <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> In-Reply-To: <29982.1525354228@localhost> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.228.216.15] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 13:37:46 -0000 Hello Michael There might be a confusion with the DODAG version. DTSN is sourced at each = node, individually. Take care, Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Roll On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > Sent: jeudi 3 mai 2018 15:30 > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wea= r > leveling >=20 >=20 > Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > > Rebooting within the lollipop is really bad luck; the whole point o= f > > the lollipop is to detect intermittent reboots and not force to sto= re > > the sequence in flash. > > Note that you do not need to start from default 240, you may restar= t > > from, say, 250. Or you may increase the sequence by more than one. = All > > that to stay less in the straight piece of the lollipop. >=20 > I don't understand why a node can't take the DTSN from it's parent as it'= s > base value. >=20 > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh netwo= rks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network archite= ct [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails= [ >=20 From nobody Thu May 3 10:15:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF5912E9A1 for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 10:15:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SNkBmT3ZMZ-j for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 10:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A749712E8C4 for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 10:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF3C20090 for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 13:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id C4DA216B6; Thu, 3 May 2018 13:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27B5169D for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 13:15:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 17:15:34 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > There might be a confusion with the DODAG version. DTSN is sourced at > each node, individually. I'm not saying it has to be synchronized, but rather it can always be > than parent. If one does that, then there is no bootstrap problem. Isn't that the non-storing case anyway? DODAG version would always be the same. I looked again, and I don't see anything about DTSN being a lollipop counter that starts at 240, and wraps at 239. That would, I think make it clear when a node has booted, and maybe that solves the problem. =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEVAwUBWutDpoCLcPvd0N1lAQIf1AgAu4ybOQUY29HEG9L+gIuWoctbbIWPbVCR Y1MAO59ed/CYL44nEM1lCpyUzPfcyM/ol5nIMIxnbRIU64qK/Zohj+kap1KHNaJe REJybsSXAaJrgtSUATerk3nmZgVasrvmbwkpJpUSb+TWIYljZHwRZCk+p829PywC 3MTVJf+P0mpcbw0Fxt43ZMdXKzgXFV58E0CwFKz0+YAzm/SlS1IrOlJY/W8agCji baXJyvQDfNTz8YUaXI7jOjHPdPsudnH3LPett4FjGmPHcBTh8Dfck3OEz/5wuzL2 PzZcmp21itTs+cPMd9s3T9QMxVXUcIVQsJStkoGh9ZL5SkZSfIuYHA== =xT97 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu May 3 18:12:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CBDE126DED for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 18:12:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bT6AJdGzoCkE for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 18:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x233.google.com (mail-ua0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFF02126DFB for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 18:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x233.google.com with SMTP id v17so3757085uak.6 for ; Thu, 03 May 2018 18:12:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7wtcHbwt/B0YqY7/kappk0J67mRaEGbUl4RvyTxvMQk=; b=bLxWkjtQwjFHEE94ZELOuHAEnA9CN5p/QZ9se6qFcG45kJiA4BydA6yrVLCVViJv5Q 8KNJl/v4PYC1RSTOuz+5BeK4zyRDP/En2t0oVNcncZLzS1BfecKStDkr+5zuDVbReKFH rR5+xdjYmWRzMPjppotCp6MI4zygCom3hfm4iyw5cLXzLsHCL21O7JLw8sdJ+7gZ8BMj 9CC9KQ+83oehxzYEUf9uyWurWQwIpyn3BBn3y5RQpvWDi4mtIk9Wk8W9LtoMu/MWLHsh DyKkYYDiuRW/zEudx1KI40uhOU1sPCy/utkSF90Nn9nebyC53kc7ios6n/WBOIMWSFwp RkhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=7wtcHbwt/B0YqY7/kappk0J67mRaEGbUl4RvyTxvMQk=; b=WgfRCKDz6BenGXb1prQO/gIEPPuSF9VzVUSr2N+aU6P45wZx8BhkrsrxqEqVw/Nl6N cZmLDLQkjskJ2CP2YLimSChp+xQCTBbonFLURRxA1mnSgYph9Du4KgcJMq53jYWZVMwf X8umnw9b8pEZl8OmNK1hQrXTL7wj7zUkChusbwFrBpktjnixVc9Z0WgtZZZ0zSdcMdSd rzFFT5oM/Ar3W5NdJ6mc3JZi0VGyQ70y1uWIGRFrC+aWUtM2F5Y7c/31Bu/N7UG6Ihcf wA7GZjuQRfxfK9oeBO1LbBjTMBTcCfsU5quc1n2pwvNveG3rBUjNjClVavQX66Zg+Bzm zZFA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tA9sJPNT4Vs/aWziR+wwt7+3x+SUskJirtBJxbFGDxLIac44A08 6RIXydYmPkHAtw/bWmgLJg/hlEzFB/VHapUso08= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZr4gVTFap65H8FaVub49OvhB/K0kVV4RoCrRIRxRpddlO3sHHiFn+Y/3rO9DJlnj469jk58iSbtjkU0xkUzAfc= X-Received: by 10.176.6.170 with SMTP id g39mr22934872uag.82.1525396350365; Thu, 03 May 2018 18:12:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> From: Rahul Jadhav Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 01:12:19 +0000 Message-ID: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0458a89af432056b5703ca" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 01:12:34 -0000 --94eb2c0458a89af432056b5703ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks Pascal.. Yes, Rebooting within the lollipop is the problem that i have described in the draft... It is not possible to completely avoid that scenario if persistent storage is not used... The problem is, the nodes cannot recover (or they recover very very late) if they get into this scenario. Choosing a higher increment factor may reduces the probability but cannot eliminate it. There is no text in 6550 which says dtsn should be maintained in persistent storage. But then 6550 does not talk about handling reboots in general. On Thu, 3 May 2018 at 1:47 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Hello Rahul : > > > > Rebooting within the lollipop is really bad luck; the whole point of the > lollipop is to detect intermittent reboots and not force to store the > sequence in flash. > > Note that you do not need to start from default 240, you may restart from, > say, 250. Or you may increase the sequence by more than one. All that to > stay less in the straight piece of the lollipop. > > All in all, I do not think that the DTSN has to be stored in persistent > memory. Is there text that I do not remember that would indicate so? > > > > Take care, > > > > Pascal > > > > *From:* Roll *On Behalf Of *Rahul Jadhav > *Sent:* jeudi 3 mai 2018 02:41 > > > *To:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > > *Subject:* Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: > Wear leveling > > > > > > On Thu, 3 May 2018 at 4:49 AM, Michael Richardson > wrote: > > > I think that I don't remember why a node needs to save the DTSN across > reboots. > > > > [RJ] dtsn is for triggering the dao from downstream nodes. If the child > nodes do not see a new dtsn from the parent then they won't send dao and > thus routing state for the (sub)childs won't be added for any child nodes > on the restarted 6lr. > > An example,.... the 6lr dtsn was 245 when it got restarted and on restart > it sets its dtsn to default 240... Now the child nodes (they have stored > 245) don't respond to the DIOs because they see an older dtsn(value 240). > Thus no DAOs are triggered causing no routing state to be installed on > restarted 6lr for the (sub)childs resulting in unavailability of downstream > path to the subdodag rooted at that 6lr. > > > > (I hate being away from code for so long that I forget these > things, I wish I could spend more time writing code) > > I think that in storing mode, that a node can set it's DTSN to whatever > value > is sees in the parents' DIO, and increment from there. > > > > [RJ] i do not think that a node infers or should infer its dtsn from > parents dio... Per section 7.2 of 6550, the default dtsn should be set to > 240 (assuming sequence window of 16). > > > > > > I'm confused as to why any node other than the root needs it to be stored > in > flash? I do not think it should be required to store info in flash. > > > > [RJ] this is true only for non storing mop but for storing mop the 6lrs > needs to remember for the reason mentioned above. > > > (OSPF doesn't require this...) > This also makes it hard to replace hardware in the field, or do firmware > updates if we have to keep this kind of data around. > > > > [RJ]true > > > > Can we expand 7.1 to better explain what is written, and why? > > > > [RJ] sure will do. > > > > > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh > networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network > architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on > rails [ > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > --94eb2c0458a89af432056b5703ca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Pascal..

Yes, Rebooting within the lollipop is the problem that i hav= e described in the draft... It is not possible to completely avoid that sce= nario if persistent storage is not used... The problem is, the nodes cannot= recover (or they recover very very late) if they get into this scenario. C= hoosing a higher increment factor may reduces the probability but cannot el= iminate it.=C2=A0

There = is no text in 6550 which says dtsn should be maintained in persistent stora= ge. But =C2=A0then 6550 does not talk about handling reboots in general.


On Thu, = 3 May 2018 at 1:47 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:

Hello Rahul=C2=A0:=

=C2=A0

Rebooting within the lollipop is real= ly bad luck; the whole point of the lollipop is to detect intermittent rebo= ots and not force to store the sequence in flash.

Note that you do not need to start fr= om default 240, you may restart from, say, 250. Or you may increase the seq= uence by more than one. All that to stay less in the straight piece of the lollipop.

All in all, I do not think that the D= TSN has to be stored in persistent memory. Is there text that I do not reme= mber that would indicate so?

=C2=A0

Take care,

=C2=A0

Pascal

=C2=A0

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Rahul Jadhav
Sent: jeudi 3 mai 2018 02:41


To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-= roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling

=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, 3 May 2018 at 4:49 AM, Michael Richardson &l= t;mcr+ietf@san= delman.ca> wrote:


I think that I don't remember why a node needs to save the DTSN across<= br> reboots.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[RJ] dtsn is for triggering the dao from downstream = nodes. If the child nodes do not see a new dtsn from the parent then they w= on't send dao and thus routing state for the (sub)childs won't be a= dded for any child nodes =C2=A0on the restarted 6lr.=C2=A0

An example,.... the 6lr dtsn was 245 when it got res= tarted and on restart it sets its dtsn to default 240... Now the child node= s (they have stored 245) don't respond to the DIOs because they see an = older dtsn(value 240). Thus no DAOs are triggered causing no routing state to be installed on restarted 6lr for th= e (sub)childs resulting in unavailability of downstream path to the subdoda= g rooted at that 6lr.

=C2=A0

(I hate being away from code for so long that I forg= et these
things, I wish I could spend more time writing code)

I think that in storing mode, that a node can set it's DTSN to whatever= value
is sees in the parents' DIO, and increment from there.

=C2=A0

[RJ] i do not think that a node infers or should inf= er its dtsn from parents dio... Per section 7.2 of 6550, the default dtsn s= hould be set to 240 (assuming sequence window of 16).

=C2=A0



I'm confused as to why any node other than the root needs it to be stor= ed in
flash?=C2=A0 =C2=A0I do not think it should be required to store info in fl= ash.

=C2=A0

[RJ] this is true only for non storing mop but for s= toring mop the 6lrs needs to remember for the reason mentioned above.


(OSPF doesn't require this...)
This also makes it hard to replace hardware in the field, or do firmware updates if we have to keep this kind of data around.

=C2=A0

[RJ]true=C2=A0



Can we expand 7.1 to better explain what is written, and why?=

=C2=A0

[RJ] sure will do.=C2=A0

=C2=A0



--
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Never tell me the o= dds!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| ipv6 me= sh networks [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 | network architect=C2=A0 [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= mcr@sandelman.ca=C2=A0 http://www.sandelman.ca/=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0ruby = on rails=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [


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_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
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"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling Thread-Index: AQHTwciVQsGzK7ypcECrCDATupfKUqQOrAGAgA7z2gCAAB9OgIAAIbNAgAF5SYCAABJO9A== Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 07:17:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A476284C7B594D669AC8D28804691D12ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks 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In-Reply-To: From: rabi narayan sahoo Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 08:15:45 +0000 Message-ID: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e676c5056b5ced82" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 08:16:00 -0000 --000000000000e676c5056b5ced82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi I agree with Rahul. I want to add few more points here. 1- If a rebooted router has to chose a higher value how it will decide which one to choose so that it can recover it's reouting table. Choosing higher value still has chance of failure in recovery 2- If wait for auto recovery we are not sure how long it will take .Currently we have only one option a- Node sends a refresh DAO Till that time all the nodes having downward path via the rebooted node won't be reachable unless until they switch the pp. RFC 6550 must consider the reboot case in general for storing mode. In non storing mode we doesn't have such issue Thanks Rabi On Fri 4 May, 2018, 6:42 AM Rahul Jadhav, wrote: > Thanks Pascal.. > > Yes, Rebooting within the lollipop is the problem that i have described in > the draft... It is not possible to completely avoid that scenario if > persistent storage is not used... The problem is, the nodes cannot recover > (or they recover very very late) if they get into this scenario. Choosing a > higher increment factor may reduces the probability but cannot eliminate > it. > > There is no text in 6550 which says dtsn should be maintained in > persistent storage. But then 6550 does not talk about handling reboots in > general. > > > On Thu, 3 May 2018 at 1:47 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) < > pthubert@cisco.com> wrote: > >> Hello Rahul : >> >> >> >> Rebooting within the lollipop is really bad luck; the whole point of the >> lollipop is to detect intermittent reboots and not force to store the >> sequence in flash. >> >> Note that you do not need to start from default 240, you may restart >> from, say, 250. Or you may increase the sequence by more than one. All that >> to stay less in the straight piece of the lollipop. >> >> All in all, I do not think that the DTSN has to be stored in persistent >> memory. Is there text that I do not remember that would indicate so? >> >> >> >> Take care, >> >> >> >> Pascal >> >> >> >> *From:* Roll *On Behalf Of *Rahul Jadhav >> *Sent:* jeudi 3 mai 2018 02:41 >> >> >> *To:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: >> Wear leveling >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 3 May 2018 at 4:49 AM, Michael Richardson >> wrote: >> >> >> I think that I don't remember why a node needs to save the DTSN across >> reboots. >> >> >> >> [RJ] dtsn is for triggering the dao from downstream nodes. If the child >> nodes do not see a new dtsn from the parent then they won't send dao and >> thus routing state for the (sub)childs won't be added for any child nodes >> on the restarted 6lr. >> >> An example,.... the 6lr dtsn was 245 when it got restarted and on restart >> it sets its dtsn to default 240... Now the child nodes (they have stored >> 245) don't respond to the DIOs because they see an older dtsn(value 240). >> Thus no DAOs are triggered causing no routing state to be installed on >> restarted 6lr for the (sub)childs resulting in unavailability of downstream >> path to the subdodag rooted at that 6lr. >> >> >> >> (I hate being away from code for so long that I forget these >> things, I wish I could spend more time writing code) >> >> I think that in storing mode, that a node can set it's DTSN to whatever >> value >> is sees in the parents' DIO, and increment from there. >> >> >> >> [RJ] i do not think that a node infers or should infer its dtsn from >> parents dio... Per section 7.2 of 6550, the default dtsn should be set to >> 240 (assuming sequence window of 16). >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm confused as to why any node other than the root needs it to be stored >> in >> flash? I do not think it should be required to store info in flash. >> >> >> >> [RJ] this is true only for non storing mop but for storing mop the 6lrs >> needs to remember for the reason mentioned above. >> >> >> (OSPF doesn't require this...) >> This also makes it hard to replace hardware in the field, or do firmware >> updates if we have to keep this kind of data around. >> >> >> >> [RJ]true >> >> >> >> Can we expand 7.1 to better explain what is written, and why? >> >> >> >> [RJ] sure will do. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh >> networks [ >> ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network >> architect [ >> ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on >> rails [ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > --000000000000e676c5056b5ced82 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
I agree with Rahul. I want to add few= more points here.
1- If a rebooted router has to ch= ose a higher value how it will decide which one to choose so that it can re= cover it's reouting table. Choosing higher value still has chance of fa= ilure in recovery=C2=A0
2- If wait for auto recovery= we are not sure how long it will take .Currently we have only one option= =C2=A0
a- Node sends a refresh DAO
Till that time all the nodes having downward path via the rebooted no= de won't be reachable unless until they switch the pp.

RFC 6550 must consider the reboot case i= n general for storing mode. In non storing mode we doesn't have such is= sue=C2=A0
Thanks
Rabi

On Fri 4 May, 2018, 6:4= 2 AM Rahul Jadhav, <rahul.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Pascal..

Yes, Rebooting within the lollipop= is the problem that i have described in the draft... It is not possible to= completely avoid that scenario if persistent storage is not used... The pr= oblem is, the nodes cannot recover (or they recover very very late) if they= get into this scenario. Choosing a higher increment factor may reduces the= probability but cannot eliminate it.=C2=A0

There is no text in 6550 which says dtsn should be main= tained in persistent storage. But =C2=A0then 6550 does not talk about handl= ing reboots in general.


On Thu, 3 May 2018 at 1:47 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) = <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:

Hello Rahul=C2=A0:=

=C2=A0

Rebooting within the lollipop is real= ly bad luck; the whole point of the lollipop is to detect intermittent rebo= ots and not force to store the sequence in flash.

Note that you do not need to start fr= om default 240, you may restart from, say, 250. Or you may increase the seq= uence by more than one. All that to stay less in the straight piece of the lollipop.

All in all, I do not think that the D= TSN has to be stored in persistent memory. Is there text that I do not reme= mber that would indicate so?

=C2=A0

Take care,

=C2=A0

Pascal

=C2=A0

From: Roll <roll-bo= unces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Rahul Jadhav
Sent: jeudi 3 mai 2018 02:41


To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.or= g>

Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Sectio= n 2.1: Wear leveling

=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, 3 May 2018 at 4:49 AM, Michael Richardson &l= t;mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:


I think that I don't remember why a node needs to save the DTSN across<= br> reboots.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[RJ] dtsn is for triggering the dao from downstream = nodes. If the child nodes do not see a new dtsn from the parent then they w= on't send dao and thus routing state for the (sub)childs won't be a= dded for any child nodes =C2=A0on the restarted 6lr.=C2=A0

An example,.... the 6lr dtsn was 245 when it got res= tarted and on restart it sets its dtsn to default 240... Now the child node= s (they have stored 245) don't respond to the DIOs because they see an = older dtsn(value 240). Thus no DAOs are triggered causing no routing state to be installed on restarted 6lr for th= e (sub)childs resulting in unavailability of downstream path to the subdoda= g rooted at that 6lr.

=C2=A0

(I hate being away from code for so long that I forg= et these
things, I wish I could spend more time writing code)

I think that in storing mode, that a node can set it's DTSN to whatever= value
is sees in the parents' DIO, and increment from there.

=C2=A0

[RJ] i do not think that a node infers or should inf= er its dtsn from parents dio... Per section 7.2 of 6550, the default dtsn s= hould be set to 240 (assuming sequence window of 16).

=C2=A0



I'm confused as to why any node other than the root needs it to be stor= ed in
flash?=C2=A0 =C2=A0I do not think it should be required to store info in fl= ash.

=C2=A0

[RJ] this is true only for non storing mop but for s= toring mop the 6lrs needs to remember for the reason mentioned above.


(OSPF doesn't require this...)
This also makes it hard to replace hardware in the field, or do firmware updates if we have to keep this kind of data around.

=C2=A0

[RJ]true=C2=A0



Can we expand 7.1 to better explain what is written, and why?=

=C2=A0

[RJ] sure will do.=C2=A0

=C2=A0



--
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Never tell me the o= dds!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| ipv6 me= sh networks [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 | network architect=C2=A0 [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mcr@sandelman.ca=C2=A0 http://www.sandelman.ca/=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0ruby = on rails=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll<= u>

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/roll
_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/roll
--000000000000e676c5056b5ced82-- From nobody Mon May 7 03:57:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DF512D950 for ; Mon, 7 May 2018 03:57:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 87v5Kdrowj5E for ; Mon, 7 May 2018 03:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AE8512D94B for ; Mon, 7 May 2018 03:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C8FE9560AA183 for ; Mon, 7 May 2018 11:57:25 +0100 (IST) Received: from BLREML702-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.20.4.171) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Mon, 7 May 2018 11:57:17 +0100 Received: from BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.9.33]) by blreml702-cah.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Mon, 7 May 2018 16:27:08 +0530 From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling Thread-Index: AQHTwcibFnu8hxNmEkuDN8v/VkuQIaQN4y+QgA8MpwCAAB9OgIAAdwaAgABf3gCAAAH3AIAAPNoAgAW+F5A= Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 10:57:08 +0000 Message-ID: <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <25461.1525367718@localhost> In-Reply-To: <25461.1525367718@localhost> Accept-Language: en-IN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.157.44] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 10:57:33 -0000 Hi Michael, That's a good point you made about DTSN not been a lollipop counter (this w= as clearly misinterpreted by us and others in implementations). Section 7 e= xplains "Sequence Counters" but DAO Trigger Sequence Number (DTSN) is not c= onsidered as sequence counter in that section!! Please find my response inline ...=20 -----Original Message----- From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson Sent: 04 May 2018 01:15 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear = leveling Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > There might be a confusion with the DODAG version. DTSN is sourced at > each node, individually. I'm not saying it has to be synchronized, but rather it can always be > tha= n parent. If one does that, then there is no bootstrap problem. Isn't that the non-storing case anyway? [RJ] Even in non-storing case the DTSN is not derived from the parent's DTS= N as per the spec.=20 DODAG version would always be the same. I looked again, and I don't see anything about DTSN being a lollipop counte= r that starts at 240, and wraps at 239. That would, I think make it clear = when a node has booted, and maybe that solves the problem. [RJ] Very interesting point. We assumed that DTSN is a lollipop counter in = our implementation. But looks like it is not. Section 7 explicitly states t= hat only DAOSequence, DODAGVersionNumber, and Path Sequence are lollipop co= unters ... Looks like we read the spec wrong, also Contiki (including ng) h= as got it wrong (i.e. uses lollipop counter for DTSN). RIOT (rightly as per= spec) does not assume lollipop counter for DTSN. I think DTSN needs to be a lollipop counter which alleviates the problem bu= t still does not completely avoid the persistent storage (discussed in othe= r mail in same thread). This point should be added to the draft.=20 --=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 From nobody Mon May 7 09:06:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7337126DFF for ; Mon, 7 May 2018 09:06:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zN8f03P3zHUx for ; Mon, 7 May 2018 09:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00CC2120726 for ; Mon, 7 May 2018 09:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B9D20090 for ; Mon, 7 May 2018 12:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id B9BAE2DA3; Mon, 7 May 2018 12:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B772B2CB9 for ; Mon, 7 May 2018 12:05:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <25461.1525367718@localhost> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 16:06:11 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rahul Arvind Jadhav wrote: > That's a good point you made about DTSN not been a lollipop counter > (this was clearly misinterpreted by us and others in > implementations). Section 7 explains "Sequence Counters" but DAO > Trigger Sequence Number (DTSN) is not considered as sequence counter = in > that section!!=20 mcr> I looked again, and I don't see anything about DTSN being a lollip= op mcr> counter that starts at 240, and wraps at 239. That would, I think mcr> make it clear when a node has booted, and maybe that solves the mcr> problem.=20 > [RJ] Very interesting point. We assumed that DTSN is a lollipop count= er > in our implementation. But looks like it is not. Section 7 explicitly > states that only DAOSequence, DODAGVersionNumber, and Path Sequence a= re > lollipop counters ... Looks like we read the spec wrong, also Contiki > (including ng) has got it wrong (i.e. uses lollipop counter for > DTSN). RIOT (rightly as per spec) does not assume lollipop counter for > DTSN. =20=20=20=20 > I think DTSN needs to be a lollipop counter which alleviates the > problem but still does not completely avoid the persistent storage > (discussed in other mail in same thread). This point should be added = to > the draft. So I think that the errata against 6550 is that it should be a lollipop counter, and I think that this solves the reboot problem, and eliminates having to write it to flash. =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEVAwUBWvB5YYCLcPvd0N1lAQLecQgAiQ1JhiZ5Jr7TkXY3cfX+bJxrMwEeAh1k eCDAyWhHrJQMduOOkB8T6xUwlwXWofwlr47zEXAfMheOTyPRWuTjkUEvcpbfwwDU 7INKDph67QGHPVS5jng7qchl4OC9GdRlvbwUTMCmQHvaMIZ1meuK4Y1zn7ti3QRD mgIESWOn+qKmeFu+4Ykci/scMBGTW1neWRnDHuyrY7yEs+HiVVZ4OVNyn8rSDY4f RxyDbSUoqdFq2olGiqxQZHg+wQYAO0M8p56Kly6cxZ/Ghez6sahNu433Apzj+42L +YeTR4jrN3usjgi19rRJVUJtKXVjfZbZewdKPSJg/ZhovE7JEeKzAA== =Fmp8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon May 7 09:19:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E1F126D3F for ; 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Mon, 07 May 2018 09:19:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <25461.1525367718@localhost> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> <23345.1525709153@localhost> In-Reply-To: <23345.1525709153@localhost> From: Rahul Jadhav Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 16:19:29 +0000 Message-ID: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045dd5565e21ca056ba009b5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 16:19:42 -0000 --f403045dd5565e21ca056ba009b5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 7 May 2018 at 9:36 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: So I think that the errata against 6550 is that it should be a lollipop > counter, and I think that this solves the reboot problem, and eliminates > having to write it to flash. [RJ] this still does not solve the reboot issue... The text in the draft actually considers dtsn to be a lollipop counter and explains the problem when rebooting within the sequence window of lollipop counter. Please refer to section 7.2 of the draft for example. Errata is nonetheless needed for dtsn to be a lollipop counter. > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh > networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network > architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on > rails [ > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > --f403045dd5565e21ca056ba009b5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, 7 May 2018 at= 9:36 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

So I think that the errata against 6550 is that it should be a lollipop
counter, and I think that this solves the reboot problem, and eliminates having to write it to flash.

[RJ] this still does not solve the reboot issue... The text in = the draft actually considers dtsn to be a lollipop counter and explains the= problem when rebooting within the sequence window of lollipop counter. Ple= ase refer to section 7.2 of the draft for example.
E= rrata is nonetheless needed for dtsn to be a lollipop counter.



--
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Never tell me the o= dds!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| ipv6 me= sh networks [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 | network architect=C2=A0 [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= mcr@sandelman.ca=C2=A0 http://www.sandelman.ca/=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0ruby on rails=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [

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Roll mailing list
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--f403045dd5565e21ca056ba009b5-- From nobody Fri May 11 00:15:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E417C12E76A for ; Fri, 11 May 2018 00:15:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7ZxB2mqWzwkB for ; Fri, 11 May 2018 00:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B789F127058 for ; Fri, 11 May 2018 00:15:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=288; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1526022909; x=1527232509; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=lG9WdvHghw1vILXvsdrfwN9QSrP7TuHi9TxhyKrSDbQ=; b=XbvuMWpLU4lJIMA3DOAt3xZ/eYrQNPOscA576sNSV1Y/yEKnbyKdITOD I1dsebuxMrp1WiO3+CErqgjXGIZ7A50xLuL8A7ZyZ6//bnbpT6TyLJBgK Uvs/oZFhAcb3irti7mNfTp4pvK0nfHU5JIoCtyhGEqScvA04F6KzHEHA1 k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BWAQAXQvVa/4wNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYNDgVwyi2yMboF5gQ+TNIF4C4RsAoMCITQYAQIBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?CbCiFKAEBAQMBOkQLAgEINhAyJQIEG4UUCK4jiEiCSIglgVQ/hBqKRwKYLgk?= =?us-ascii?q?CjkeBMAGLPoIrjgcCERMBgSQBHDiBUnAVgn+QTY8PgRgBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.49,387,1520899200"; d="scan'208";a="393537305" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 11 May 2018 07:15:08 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com (xch-aln-005.cisco.com [173.36.7.15]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w4B7F8Do001075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 11 May 2018 07:15:08 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) by XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com (173.36.7.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 11 May 2018 02:15:08 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 11 May 2018 02:15:08 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling Thread-Index: AQHTwciVQsGzK7ypcECrCDATupfKUqQN4y+QgA8MpwCAAB9OgIAAdwaAgABf3gCAAAH3AIAAPNoAgAW+F5CAASfcgIAFYF1Q Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 07:14:41 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Fri, 11 May 2018 07:13:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <25461.1525367718@localhost> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> <23345.1525709153@localhost> In-Reply-To: <23345.1525709153@localhost> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.64.30] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 07:15:11 -0000 Hello Michael: =20 > So I think that the errata against 6550 is that it should be a lollipop c= ounter, > and I think that this solves the reboot problem, and eliminates having to= write > it to flash. >=20 Agreed, it should have been listed in section 7. Take care, Pascal From nobody Fri May 11 00:18:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C168912E856 for ; Fri, 11 May 2018 00:18:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yDAzGX8KWaDU for ; Fri, 11 May 2018 00:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com 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Section 2.1: Wear leveling Thread-Index: AQHTwciVQsGzK7ypcECrCDATupfKUqQN4y+QgA8MpwCAAB9OgIAAdwaAgABf3gCAAAH3AIAAPNoAgAW+F5CAASfcgIAAA82AgAVc0ZA= Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 07:18:04 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Fri, 11 May 2018 07:17:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <25461.1525367718@localhost> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> <23345.1525709153@localhost> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.64.30] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_b3265ca6f74545468c00007dadaa0fb7XCHRCD001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 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-0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FC46126DFB for ; Sat, 12 May 2018 11:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10ACE20090 for ; Sat, 12 May 2018 15:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 70AE62F85; Sat, 12 May 2018 14:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3962F79 for ; Sat, 12 May 2018 14:57:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <25461.1525367718@localhost> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> <23345.1525709153@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 18:58:14 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: mcr> So I think that the errata against 6550 is that it should be a lol= lipop mcr> counter, and I think that this solves the reboot problem, and elim= inates mcr> having to write it to flash. rj> [RJ] this still does not solve the reboot issue... The text in the rj> draft actually considers dtsn to be a lollipop counter and explains rj> the problem when rebooting within the sequence window of lollipop rj> counter. Please refer to section 7.2 of the draft for example. Erra= ta rj> is nonetheless needed for dtsn to be a lollipop counter. pt> Well, yes, but that=E2=80=99s true for any of the sequence counters= , not just pt> DTSN, and was not perceived as an =E2=80=9Cissue=E2=80=9D.=20 pt> The lollipop by design detects one reboot during the straight pt> part. More will cause a delay. There are ways to avoid that like pt> persistent memory or alleviate it like making the straight part pt> shorted on reliable links. I=E2=80=99m not sure there=E2=80=99s mu= ch to add to that pt> or to fix, is there? Pascal, I feel that Rahul has some point that we've missed. > behalf of node A). As per section 7.2. of [RFC6550], when node B > receives this packet it will consider the information to be old > (since 240 < 250). > Based on this figure, there is dead zone (240 to 0) in which if A > operates after reboot then the seqcnt will always be considered > smaller. Thus node A needs to maintain the seqcnt in persistent > storage and reuse this on reboot. My instinct is there are one of two bugs (maybe both documentation and code= ): a) node A SHOULD rapidly move from 240 to 0, that the numbers from 240 to 0 should be considered "setup", and node A was wrong to advance only to 250, and not as soon as it felt "stable", move to 0. b) that node B, should recognize that during the 240 to 0 stage, that the counters should not be compared. Anything < 0 is "setup", and is always "new", but that 251 > 250 require immediate action. I found it unusual that the lollipop should require 16 values in the stem, I think that one ('0') would have worked, but maybe there was some reason to prefer 16. =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEVAwUBWvc5L4CLcPvd0N1lAQJWywgAjpE0UWl16FmNHHfCoWUmerRndbgK0ISy TDJkoqp51IDxuTs2bX8NJD/H4Gj78tiUbfTWHYJcw3iKBr50mbfDc1CWiMlA4/IJ 6Y3EgOzgKf42nRuVRNXNs+NtmrNYHUuDzdzSG7iGmaM/XEabObTo0udKSyHRY5mz wEcs4hMHYAo+L5iO1h+MnMTiIFWXgHvsFZJ3nogltSaiYHRfrZ0AQRoNrEYibLf6 yjNRpKRoC2w3XDHZrtg6R1oeD4o3npOhjk8pDczo6FPiTiwjMmmGV10wZH4EGNGe 408pVWDWzpV8LEf8r0IlWVj9UNwfmj2tbZ8kR7P5yoQzsyG27QGMaA== =XC/o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat May 12 12:59:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 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=?us-ascii?q?Cjk+BNoNlh1SQPAIREwGBJAEyIoFScBU7KgGCGAmFH4VohT5vjlWCRQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.49,393,1520899200"; d="scan'208";a="113054263" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 12 May 2018 19:59:07 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (xch-aln-004.cisco.com [173.36.7.14]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w4CJx7e2019455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 12 May 2018 19:59:07 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Sat, 12 May 2018 14:59:06 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Sat, 12 May 2018 14:59:06 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling Thread-Index: AQHTwciVQsGzK7ypcECrCDATupfKUqQN4y+QgA8MpwCAAB9OgIAAdwaAgABf3gCAAAH3AIAAPNoAgAW+F5CAASfcgIAAA82AgAVc0ZCAAqsXgP//vUuT Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 19:59:06 +0000 Message-ID: <5BEB0BFF-8BA1-4D6D-83DA-AC75F8AD4AEC@cisco.com> References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <25461.1525367718@localhost> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> <23345.1525709153@localhost> , <17986.1526151471@localhost> In-Reply-To: <17986.1526151471@localhost> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 19:59:11 -0000 SGVsbG8gTWljaGFlbCANCg0KVGhlIGRlZmF1bHQgb2YgMTYgcG9pbnRzIGluIHRoZSBzdHJhaWdo dCBsaW5lIGlzIHRoZXJlIHRvIGNvdmVyIG11bHRpcGxlIGxvc3NlcyBpbiBhIHJvdzsgMTYgbWF5 IGJlIHRvbyBsYXJnZSBmb3IgYSByZWxpYWJsZSBNYWMgbGlrZSBUU0NIIGluIHdoaWNoIGNhc2Ug YSBub2RlIG1heSBzdGFydCBhdCBhbm90aGVyIHZhbHVlLCBlLmcuLCAyNTAuIFN0YXJ0aW5nIGF0 IDI1NSBsb29rcyBvcHRpbWlzdGljIHRob3VnaC4gSW4gY2FzZSBvZiBhIGxvc3MgbnVtYmVycyB3 aWxsIG1vdmUgdG8gdGhlIGNpcmN1bGFyIHBhcnQgYW5kIHdpbGwgYmUgdW5jb21wYXJhYmxlLg0K DQpJdCBpcyBub3QgcmVhbGx5IHRoYXQgdGhlIG5vZGUgaXMgc3RhYmxlIHRoYXQgY291bnRzIGJ1 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Oi8vd3d3LnNhbmRlbG1hbi5jYS8gICAgICAgIHwgICBydWJ5IG9uIHJhaWxzICAgIFsgDQo+ICAg IA0KPiANCj4gICAgDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQo+IFJvbGwgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IFJvbGxAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9yb2xsDQo= From nobody Sun May 13 09:55:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52BCC126BF3 for ; Sun, 13 May 2018 09:55:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o2Da5MTPSily for ; Sun, 13 May 2018 09:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71C5A1242EA for ; Sun, 13 May 2018 09:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B989F20090 for ; Sun, 13 May 2018 13:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 4D5922674; Sun, 13 May 2018 12:55:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA00264F for ; Sun, 13 May 2018 12:55:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: <5BEB0BFF-8BA1-4D6D-83DA-AC75F8AD4AEC@cisco.com> References: <8EC2893F-731B-439D-86FE-984505349D8D@tzi.org> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBCD1B4@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> <22477.1525301358@localhost> <0522ea86b4234490bdd56b1428db0762@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <29982.1525354228@localhost> <685a615a79e8442f9f7b19983ef2a36d@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <25461.1525367718@localhost> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> <23345.1525709153@localhost> , <17986.1526151471@localhost> <5BEB0BFF-8BA1-4D6D-83DA-AC75F8AD4AEC@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 16:55:25 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > The default of 16 points in the straight line is there to cover > multiple losses in a row; 16 may be too large for a reliable Mac like > TSCH in which case a node may start at another value, e.g., > 250. Starting at 255 looks optimistic though. In case of a loss numbe= rs > will move to the circular part and will be uncomparable. okay, so with TSCH it would make sense to start a higher number? > It is not really that the node is stable that counts but that all oth= er > nodes got a chance to see that this node as rebooted so they can reset > their reference value and keep numbers comparable. Yes, agreed. The goal is to have a way for children to see that the node is freshly rebooted and to reset their threshold. > I=E2=80=99m happy to pursue this discussion to see more clearly than = I do now; > at this point I still do not see what change we could make - and why - > to the sequence counter behavior...=20 Maybe there is no change, but you claim the DTSN does need to be written to flash, and Rahul says that it must be. (Correct me if my understanding is= wrong). A protocol which does not require flash writes is clearly better. =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEVAwUBWvht5oCLcPvd0N1lAQIRnAgAj0f4lY6IArfjFncvG3xs0EPiotZWyp+Z PrU39BRwZTQ8lxliqC8cX8L0XWKCxNHXzp5NBMs5hUewDITErS9Fwn/C/jlCRJco gH0mdgXTOH/qrouNwUIkpHYYZW40/QJXAKb8uMk9R8kM2b6IbIbE+zJgfL656NhE 1bnozUcsC1ARFEEGdmKJWOcUc0DIgHAgflku0FeSAoImHB4XLEujwnMsauCWzKbg Ii/IqRH5mz5nbULpuwmmIMgYw9uA2S2uHGdCYi7RErGqtMHpUa4TECJqyl4qE745 40mjeX5VwT3bvfmYAac0PYRuzbQCEEo++I6282iOBhnKnla/rhlrqg== =jylw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon May 14 00:43:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by 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with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 May 2018 07:43:40 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (xch-rcd-005.cisco.com [173.37.102.15]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w4E7he9N014386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 14 May 2018 07:43:40 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 14 May 2018 02:43:39 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 14 May 2018 02:43:39 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling Thread-Index: AQHTwciVQsGzK7ypcECrCDATupfKUqQN4y+QgA8MpwCAAB9OgIAAdwaAgABf3gCAAAH3AIAAPNoAgAW+F5CAASfcgIAAA82AgAVc0ZCAAqsXgP//vUuTgAGyuQCAAKH3AA== Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 07:43:36 +0000 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Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 07:43:43 -0000 SGVsbG8gTWljaGFlbDoNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBS b2xsIDxyb2xsLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBNaWNoYWVsIFJpY2hhcmRz b24NCj4gU2VudDogZGltYW5jaGUgMTMgbWFpIDIwMTggMTg6NTUNCj4gVG86IFJvdXRpbmcgT3Zl ciBMb3cgcG93ZXIgYW5kIExvc3N5IG5ldHdvcmtzIDxyb2xsQGlldGYub3JnPg0KPiBTdWJqZWN0 OiBSZTogW1JvbGxdIGRyYWZ0LXJhaHVsLXJvbGwtcnBsLW9ic2VydmF0aW9ucy0wMCBTZWN0aW9u IDIuMTogV2Vhcg0KPiBsZXZlbGluZw0KPiANCj4gDQo+IFBhc2NhbCBUaHViZXJ0IChwdGh1YmVy dCkgPHB0aHViZXJ0QGNpc2NvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+ICAgICA+IFRoZSBkZWZhdWx0IG9mIDE2 IHBvaW50cyBpbiB0aGUgc3RyYWlnaHQgbGluZSBpcyB0aGVyZSB0byBjb3Zlcg0KPiAgICAgPiBt 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<982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> <23345.1525709153@localhost> , <17986.1526151471@localhost> <5BEB0BFF-8BA1-4D6D-83DA-AC75F8AD4AEC@cisco.com> <22387.1526230502@localhost> <9c4a25822585452cada1658f0bf7ee8e@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <9c4a25822585452cada1658f0bf7ee8e@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-IN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.157.44] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 15:43:39 -0000 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<982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE374F@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> <23345.1525709153@localhost> , <17986.1526151471@localhost> <5BEB0BFF-8BA1-4D6D-83DA-AC75F8AD4AEC@cisco.com> <22387.1526230502@localhost> <9c4a25822585452cada1658f0bf7ee8e@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE7D00@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DBE7D00@BLREML503-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.243.81] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-rahul-roll-rpl-observations-00 Section 2.1: Wear leveling X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a4f:f599:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2018 14:31:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ines Robles Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 00:31:27 +0300 Message-ID: To: roll Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000929e9056c597169" Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Review request for draft-clausen-lln-rpl-experiences-11 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 21:31:31 -0000 --0000000000000929e9056c597169 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear all, This Individual Submission depicts observations of RPL. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clausen-lln-rpl-experiences-11 Please let us know your opinion. Thanks, Ines and Peter --0000000000000929e9056c597169 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

This =C2=A0Individual Submiss= ion depicts observations of RPL.


Please let us know your opinion.

Thanks,

Ines and Peter
--0000000000000929e9056c597169-- From nobody Wed May 16 16:34:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68FDC12DA44 for ; Wed, 16 May 2018 16:34:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 395Zo1FJYvkR for ; Wed, 16 May 2018 16:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.cs.Stanford.EDU (smtp1.cs.stanford.edu [171.64.64.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1539126D73 for ; Wed, 16 May 2018 16:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.198.105.24] (port=49152 helo=[10.1.104.55]) by smtp1.cs.Stanford.EDU with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fJ5wW-0008R1-Sa for roll@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2018 16:34:49 -0700 From: Philip Levis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_87D5A1FA-5E77-47F5-BAAC-3BF638022A6B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 16:34:47 -0700 References: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) X-Scan-Signature: 54cb1bda8084ee4cdf52f72d94b5a886 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Review request for draft-clausen-lln-rpl-experiences-11 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 23:34:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_87D5A1FA-5E77-47F5-BAAC-3BF638022A6B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On May 16, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Ines Robles = wrote: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > This Individual Submission depicts observations of RPL. >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clausen-lln-rpl-experiences-11 = >=20 > Please let us know your opinion. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Ines and Peter Your observations about Trickle are correct =E2=80=94 its transmission = rate can asymptotically approach zero in a stable network, but dynamic = networks that trigger its reset conditions cause it to transmit more = frequently. E.g.,=20 https://sing.stanford.edu/site/publications/ctp-tosn14.pdf = shows experimental results from CTP (which motivated much of the design = behind upward routes and the use of Trickle). Figures 35, 36 and 37 show = how nodes in dynamic conditions (people moving around) send more control = packets. These results are in contrast to Figures 15 and 17(b), which = show how in stable conditions control traffic asymptotically approaches = some low rate.=20 However, it=E2=80=99s not clear to me what else you can do: if your = physical connectivity is changing significantly and frequently, you need = to exchange control messages more frequently to maintain the routing = topology. The basic premise of Trickle is that you adapt the rate to = what the topology needs: rather than transmit at a fixed rate, which is = either too slow (during high dynamics) or too fast (when the topology is = stable), the protocol reactively repairs the topology. Phil= --Apple-Mail=_87D5A1FA-5E77-47F5-BAAC-3BF638022A6B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On May 16, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> wrote:

Dear all,

This  Individual Submission depicts observations of = RPL.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clausen-lln-rpl-experiences-1= 1

Please let us know your opinion.

Thanks,

Ines and = Peter

Your = observations about Trickle are correct =E2=80=94 its transmission rate = can asymptotically approach zero in a stable network, but dynamic = networks that trigger its reset conditions cause it to transmit more = frequently. E.g., 

https://sing.stanford.edu/site/publications/ctp-tosn14.pdf<= /div>

shows experimental results from CTP = (which motivated much of the design behind upward routes and the use of = Trickle). Figures 35, 36 and 37 show how nodes in dynamic conditions = (people moving around) send more control packets. These results are in = contrast to Figures 15 and 17(b), which show how in stable conditions = control traffic asymptotically approaches some low = rate. 

However, it=E2=80=99s = not clear to me what else you can do: if your physical connectivity is = changing significantly and frequently, you need to exchange control = messages more frequently to maintain the routing topology. The basic = premise of Trickle is that you adapt the rate to what the topology = needs: rather than transmit at a fixed rate, which is either too slow = (during high dynamics) or too fast (when the topology is stable), the = protocol reactively repairs the topology.

Phil
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] Review request for draft-clausen-lln-rpl-experiences-11 Thread-Index: AQHT7V1LuoaqYgQxeEKf1cTQg18YbKQz3azg Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 14:20:17 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Thu, 17 May 2018 14:19:38 +0000 Message-ID: <6cb0f705092d45f6bd78e94209357a0f@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.228.216.12] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6cb0f705092d45f6bd78e94209357a0fXCHRCD001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Review request for draft-clausen-lln-rpl-experiences-11 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 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DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj5JbmVzIGFuZCBQZXRlcjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9k aXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_6cb0f705092d45f6bd78e94209357a0fXCHRCD001ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri May 25 05:07:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89E21204DA; Fri, 25 May 2018 05:07:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, mariainesrobles@googlemail.com, aretana.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.80.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152725005682.12989.15166984269482056761.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 05:07:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] roll - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 102 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 12:07:37 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Ines Robles, a Chair of the roll working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Ines Robles Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: anima manet 6tisch core ace Second Priority: rtgarea 6lo 6man lwig cbor t2trg Third Priority: rtgwg intarea lpwan People who must be present: Michael Richardson Peter Van der Stok Alvaro Retana Ines Robles Resources Requested: Special Requests: Meetecho Support --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue May 29 14:30:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5B4A12EC6E for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 14:30:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mailfence.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3NZJATvlBVIm for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 14:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-l3b-97.contactoffice.com (mailout-l3b-97.contactoffice.com [212.3.242.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 700F712EC57 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 14:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpauth1.co-bxl (smtpauth1.co-bxl [10.2.0.15]) by mailout-l3b-97.contactoffice.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2CD5B2 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 23:30:45 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mailfence.com; s=20160819-nLV10XS2; t=1527629445; bh=10ZFm0WQAjsfBhXOfwKDDkipwDoHqXXOIWvwzh/6bb4=; h=From:Date:Subject:To:From; b=GTjMfl3zV/g8vpsH+Zt+ZHTiOZgzHg1HkL5Z+ZfqkgLFPHpQ81IFH2qux5Uql5Imt nSkOYbBrvAc/qDnhAeuqAZGFLFCu+/M0Z37O8QGQEr2TDUP076bza++ssqFiNNtLog lFzKlSOorJuFylKjSn1ZfW5PjwWpzwLKhBfNNpYSzkkXJ+NxAjkptDAIqkSujJJF+6 6R/8wuUtLzFwVFsQL1E/S/0xWxq9PuL3NjqZvf2jrPDsCOI2pBkrUlBM/PJJe/5es5 rBUfXF4TQTRl5ei6WcBehVstMtjGkwhz2LgdeeawTRynBSisyzPtQ2/Cy+CFdwIb68 UKriSpXl74WlA== Received: from mail-qk0-f174.google.com ([209.85.220.174]) by smtp.mailfence.com (envelope-from ) with ESMTPA for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 23:30:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-qk0-f174.google.com with SMTP id k86-v6so12730771qkh.13 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 14:30:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0va8Fgk7ahoXz80wNbIldquW8N2AQ1/olnGkHm0fGzha2YGUWz 8s7SHFrEEt5zRE49SWyEb1odII37vdqgMPdikm4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKK4L33jOklTHLpsVVMGR8kNZpXp+UFpPb3LCXQoj8ETeDCPxtcGPsFhQzFMhty7U8LbUZAkvZMi5RJOuSQ1TFg= X-Received: by 2002:a37:3612:: with SMTP id d18-v6mr136100qka.86.1527629441522; Tue, 29 May 2018 14:30:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a0c:a0e1:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2018 14:30:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Remous-Aris Koutsiamanis Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 23:30:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: roll Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000035e3ef056d5ef2cd" X-ContactOffice-Account: com:113819248 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Extension point for node information X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 21:30:51 -0000 --00000000000035e3ef056d5ef2cd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear all, we are working on issues of parent selection and DODAG selection. We have already worked on two drafts which add information to the DIO DAG MC to support these choices. We are debating where in the DAG MC to put information regarding node state. In draft draft-koutsiamanis-roll-nsa-extension-01 we put the "Parent Node Set" information (the list of a node's parent IPv6 addresses) in a new TLV nested within the NSA metric object. However, in draft draft-ji-roll-traffic-aware-objective-function-01 we added the "Packet Transmission Rate" information as a new metric object type directly withing the DAG MC as new Routing-MC-Type (i.e., at the same "level" as the other 6551-defined metric object like ETX, Node Energy, etc.). We are now debating if we maybe should re-position the "Packet Transmission Rate" information nested withing the NSA metric object, as with "the Parent Node Set", or not. Both these drafts propose carrying information which is semantically similar: information internal to a node. We are wondering what would be more correct to do: a) ask for new Routing-MC-Type allocation and create new metric objects. b) ask for new NSA TLV type allocation and create as nested TLV within the NSA metric object. We have noted that in RFC6551 there is the NSA metric object and also a separate node-information metric object specifically for energy, the "Node Energy (NE) object". It would seem that the existing NE object should be nested within the NSA metric object if all node information is to be put within NSA. If not, we expect that we should be able put our own additions at the same level (i.e. use case a, above, to ask for new Routing-MC-Type allocation). Should we do this? If none of the above, is there a reason why an exception was made especially for energy information? Kind regards, Aris --00000000000035e3ef056d5ef2cd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

we are working on issues of parent select= ion and DODAG selection.
We have already worked on two drafts which add = information to the DIO DAG MC to support these choices.
We are debating = where in the DAG MC to put information regarding node state.

In draf= t draft-koutsiamanis-roll-nsa-extension-01 we put the "Parent Node Set= " information (the list of a node's parent IPv6 addresses) in a ne= w TLV nested within the NSA metric object.
However, in draft draft-ji-ro= ll-traffic-aware-objective-function-01 we added the "Packet Transmissi= on Rate" information as a new metric object type directly withing the = DAG MC as =C2=A0new Routing-MC-Type (i.e., at the same "level" as= the other 6551-defined metric object like ETX, Node Energy, etc.).
We a= re now debating if we maybe should re-position the "Packet Transmissio= n Rate" information nested withing the NSA metric object, as with &quo= t;the Parent Node Set", or not.

Both these drafts propose carry= ing information which is semantically similar: information internal to a no= de.
We are wondering what would be more correct to do:
a) ask for new= Routing-MC-Type allocation and create new metric objects.
b) ask for ne= w NSA TLV type allocation and create as nested TLV within the NSA metric ob= ject.

We have noted that in RFC6551 there is the NSA metric object a= nd also a separate node-information metric object specifically for energy, = the "Node Energy (NE) object".
It would seem that the existing= NE object should be nested within the NSA metric object if all node inform= ation is to be put within NSA.
If not, we expect that we should be able = put our own additions at the same level (i.e. use case a, above, to ask for= new Routing-MC-Type allocation). Should we do this?

If none of the = above, is there a reason why an exception was made especially for energy in= formation?

Kind regards,
Aris
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