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Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The document is interesting and is about an interesting twist of behavior in
the light of RFC 8200 new behavior with respect to Hop-by-hop extension header.

But, I am balloting a DISCUSS for two reasons:

1) in section 3.1,  I am failing to understand the link between RFC8200 HbH
behavior and why the RPI code needs to be changed to 0x23.  => a clear
explanation is required on why the option 0x23 is linked to RFC 8200: I fail to
understand the authors' logic. At first sight, with the new RFC8200 HbH
handling, there is no need to change the RPI code from 0x63 as most routers
will ignore HbH anyway.

2) the document deserves a better text as there are too many nits, unexpanded
acronyms, ... the reader has hard time to understand the document.

Again, the content is useful but need some more work.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------



Comments
--------

C1) Section 1, having a date or short description of the interim meeting could
be useful here.

C2) Section 2, the term "Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers" is confusing at first
reading, what about "Link IPv6-in-IPv6 header" ? or "Single link IPv6-in-IPv6
header" ? Hop-by-hop has a specific meaning in IPv6. This term is not also used
consistenly in the document.

C3) section 3.2 how does a network node would understand / learn that it is in
"0x23 mode" ? It should provide a hint to section 3.3 or swap section 3.2 and
3.3 to make the task easier for the reader.

C4) section 3.3 if the decompression is also to 0x23 or 0x63, then what is the
compressor behavior when receiving the other code?

C5) the introduction to RPL in section 4 after the topology is nice and concise
but it is either too late in the document or useless (I prefer the former, for
example in section 2).

C6) the code 0x23 is assumed everywhere but AFAIK there is no guarantee that
IANA will use this code (even if this is the logical choice)

C7) it is assumed that the Internet has moved to RFC8200 and does not drop
packets with HbH... "will not be discarded" I would prefer to have a disclaimer
on the current sad state of the Internet

C8) section 5, while I am not an expert in RPL, I wonder whether the sentence
"there can be no loops by construction" is true even in transient states ?

C9) section 6, is there any reason why the 'must' and 'root' values are not
specified while 'hop' and others are ?

C10) Section 6.1.1 title is "SM: Example of Flow from RPL-aware-leaf to root"
while SM has NOT been specified only RPL-SM.

C11) Section 7, AFAIK RPL has been designed to be confined in one domain, if I
am not mistaken, then extending RPL to work over the Internet would require
some considerations early in this document (even if IPv6-in-IPv6 should clear
the security issues of RH3 as discussed in the security section).

C12) the 2nd paragraph of section 9 is probably useless as it is a snapshot
taken in 2018/2019 which may not be the case anymore in a couple of years

Nits
----

N1) in section 1, this is a unexpected abbreviation < "RPL option" (RPI) >

N2) in section 2, another unexpected abbreviation < RPL-aware-leaf (Raf) >

N3) section 3.1, inconsistent use of quotes around 01 and 1 in the same section

N4) section 4, acronyms such 6LR are here explained while section 2 referred to
an external document... perhaps worth augmenting section 2 and removing the
description in section 4 ?

N5) section 4, s/in non-storing (RPL-NSM)/in non-storing mode (RPL-NSM)/

N6) section 5 does not use the previously introduced abbreviations... this I-D
looks like a patchwork (different authors -- and I made multiple times the same
'mistake' ;-) )

N7) section 5 s/Extensions may not be added/Extensions Headers may not be added/

N8) section 5 repeat the use of 01 in the option and its explanation => remove
this part

N9) section 5 s/to add to remove/to add and remove/ ?

N10) section 6, s/It indicate/It indicates/

N11) section 6, s/hop by hop/hop-by-hop/



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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 10:14:45 +0300
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To: Henning Rogge <hrogge@gmail.com>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>,  "Luc Andre Burdet (lburdet)" <lburdet@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>,  Min Ye <amy.yemin@huawei.com>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] rtgdir Last Call Review: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo
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Hi Henning,

Thank you for your comments, we will work on it and get back to you.

Cheers,

Ines

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 9:15 PM Henning Rogge <hrogge@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I was asked by the IETF to do a Routing-Directorate review of
> draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo. Please note that I do NOT follow
> the ROLL WG.
>
> Overall I think the draft tries too hard to condense information
> into one document. It often uses non-intuitive abbreviations (e.g.
> "RPL-aware-Leaf" as "RaF" or "target" as "tgt") and I just don't
> know if this is the common way to do it in ROLL or just an unlucky
> accident.
>
> A lot of tables are literally overloaded with information to the
> point where the document generator splits apart words, making the
> table unreadable (see table 4,6,7,8,11,21 among others).
>
> Other table entries are just not easy to interpret. Table 7
> (as an example) has the options "no, "must" and "yes" for a column
> which raises the question what is the difference between "must"
> and "yes".
>
> I am not sure what advice to give for the draft, if this (as the
> abstract states) is the analysis for the basis of header compression
> design I am worried that the design decisions will be hard to understand.
>
> Henning Rogge
>

--0000000000002acac00587e2647e
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi=C2=A0Henning,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for your=C2=
=A0comments, we will work=C2=A0on it and get=C2=A0back to you.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Ines</div></div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 16, 201=
9 at 9:15 PM Henning Rogge &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hrogge@gmail.com">hrogge@g=
mail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
I was asked by the IETF to do a Routing-Directorate review of<br>
draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo. Please note that I do NOT follow<br>
the ROLL WG.<br>
<br>
Overall I think the draft tries too hard to condense information<br>
into one document. It often uses non-intuitive abbreviations (e.g.<br>
&quot;RPL-aware-Leaf&quot; as &quot;RaF&quot; or &quot;target&quot; as &quo=
t;tgt&quot;) and I just don&#39;t<br>
know if this is the common way to do it in ROLL or just an unlucky<br>
accident.<br>
<br>
A lot of tables are literally overloaded with information to the<br>
point where the document generator splits apart words, making the<br>
table unreadable (see table 4,6,7,8,11,21 among others).<br>
<br>
Other table entries are just not easy to interpret. Table 7<br>
(as an example) has the options &quot;no, &quot;must&quot; and &quot;yes&qu=
ot; for a column<br>
which raises the question what is the difference between &quot;must&quot;<b=
r>
and &quot;yes&quot;.<br>
<br>
I am not sure what advice to give for the draft, if this (as the<br>
abstract states) is the analysis for the basis of header compression<br>
design I am worried that the design decisions will be hard to understand.<b=
r>
<br>
Henning Rogge<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000002acac00587e2647e--


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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 10:16:27 +0300
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To: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>
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Hi Colin,

Thank you for your comments, we will work on it and get back to you.

Cheers,

Ines

On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 1:46 PM Colin Perkins via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> Reviewer: Colin Perkins
> Review result: Ready with Nits
>
> This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team's
> ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written
> primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the
> document's
> authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the
> IETF
> discussion list for information.
>
> When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this
> review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC
> tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review.
>
> The draft updates RFC 6553 to use a different IPv6 hop-by-hop option type
> for
> RPL packets, to avoid some issues discovered through deployment experience.
> This looks to require a flag day cutover, and hence has some potential
> interoperability concerns, but introduces no transport concern. The draft
> also
> describes a number of clarifications around when to use the RPL hop-by-hop
> option header and when to use IP-in-IP tunnelling, described based on a
> set of
> use case examples.
>
> There do not look to be any new transport-related concerns with this draft.
>
> The draft does not mention ECN when using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunneling. It is
> perhaps
> implied, but a reference to RFC 6040 would be helpful to clarify how ECN
> bits
> are copied between inner and outer headers when encapsulating and
> decapsulating
> packets from an IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel. ECN is seeing increasing use in
> transport
> protocols, so correctly propagating this information is important.
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi=C2=A0Colin,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for your=C2=A0=
comments, we will work=C2=A0on it and get=C2=A0back to you.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Ines</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 11, 2019=
 at 1:46 PM Colin Perkins via Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@iet=
f.org">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex">Reviewer: Colin Perkins<br>
Review result: Ready with Nits<br>
<br>
This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team&#=
39;s<br>
ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written<br=
>
primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document&=
#39;s<br>
authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the I=
ETF<br>
discussion list for information.<br>
<br>
When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this<b=
r>
review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:tsv-art@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">tsv-art@ietf.org</a> =
if you reply to or forward this review.<br>
<br>
The draft updates RFC 6553 to use a different IPv6 hop-by-hop option type f=
or<br>
RPL packets, to avoid some issues discovered through deployment experience.=
<br>
This looks to require a flag day cutover, and hence has some potential<br>
interoperability concerns, but introduces no transport concern. The draft a=
lso<br>
describes a number of clarifications around when to use the RPL hop-by-hop<=
br>
option header and when to use IP-in-IP tunnelling, described based on a set=
 of<br>
use case examples.<br>
<br>
There do not look to be any new transport-related concerns with this draft.=
<br>
<br>
The draft does not mention ECN when using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunneling. It is per=
haps<br>
implied, but a reference to RFC 6040 would be helpful to clarify how ECN bi=
ts<br>
are copied between inner and outer headers when encapsulating and decapsula=
ting<br>
packets from an IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel. ECN is seeing increasing use in transp=
ort<br>
protocols, so correctly propagating this information is important.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000468a640587e26a76--


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From: "Turner, Randy" <Randy.Turner@landisgyr.com>
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Thread-Topic: Route projection
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Subject: [Roll] Route projection
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HI All,

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but in reading the draft on r=
oute projection, it seems like the PCE is always making decisions when rout=
es are projected and I understand why this is the focus.  Has there been a =
discussion on the possibility of an arbitrary router in the DODAG "asking" =
the root or PCE for an optimal source route (P2P) to a particular destinati=
on ?  Or in the language of the draft, an arbitrary router requesting a P-D=
AO to a particular destination (assuming the "request" for a P-DAO contains=
 the intended destination).  I guess I'm more interested in the "non-storin=
g" scenario for route projection.

Thanks!
R.

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">HI All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Apologies if this has already been discussed, but in=
 reading the draft on route projection, it seems like the PCE is always mak=
ing decisions when routes are projected and I understand why this is the fo=
cus.&nbsp; Has there been a discussion
 on the possibility of an arbitrary router in the DODAG &#8220;asking&#8221=
; the root or PCE for an optimal source route (P2P) to a particular destina=
tion ? &nbsp;Or in the language of the draft, an arbitrary router requestin=
g a P-DAO to a particular destination (assuming the
 &#8220;request&#8221; for a P-DAO contains the intended destination). &nbs=
p;I guess I&#8217;m more interested in the &#8220;non-storing&#8221; scenar=
io for route projection.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<br>
R.<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Route projection
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Route projection
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Hello Randy:

We could add a method for that I guess; but we do not have a concept of rou=
te request in RFC 6550, so I'm wondering how that could be done. Do you hav=
e a suggestion?

All the best,

Pascal

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Turner, Randy
Sent: jeudi 2 mai 2019 12:16
To: 'roll@ietf.org' <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: [Roll] Route projection

HI All,

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but in reading the draft on r=
oute projection, it seems like the PCE is always making decisions when rout=
es are projected and I understand why this is the focus.  Has there been a =
discussion on the possibility of an arbitrary router in the DODAG "asking" =
the root or PCE for an optimal source route (P2P) to a particular destinati=
on ?  Or in the language of the draft, an arbitrary router requesting a P-D=
AO to a particular destination (assuming the "request" for a P-DAO contains=
 the intended destination).  I guess I'm more interested in the "non-storin=
g" scenario for route projection.

Thanks!
R.

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Randy:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We could add a method for that I guess; but we do no=
t have a concept of route request in RFC 6550, so I&#8217;m wondering how t=
hat could be done. Do you have a suggestion?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All the best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Roll &lt;roll-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Turner, Randy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> jeudi 2 mai 2019 12:16<br>
<b>To:</b> 'roll@ietf.org' &lt;roll@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Roll] Route projection<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">HI All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Apologies if this has already been discussed, but in=
 reading the draft on route projection, it seems like the PCE is always mak=
ing decisions when routes are projected and I understand why this is the fo=
cus.&nbsp; Has there been a discussion
 on the possibility of an arbitrary router in the DODAG &#8220;asking&#8221=
; the root or PCE for an optimal source route (P2P) to a particular destina=
tion ? &nbsp;Or in the language of the draft, an arbitrary router requestin=
g a P-DAO to a particular destination (assuming the
 &#8220;request&#8221; for a P-DAO contains the intended destination). &nbs=
p;I guess I&#8217;m more interested in the &#8220;non-storing&#8221; scenar=
io for route projection.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<br>
R.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Turner, Randy" <Randy.Turner@landisgyr.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] Route projection
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From: "Turner, Randy" <Randy.Turner@landisgyr.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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--_000_E71FA65EBD674DB8B8928A0C0AD4BCF6landisgyrcom_--


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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I only did a quick read of this document but I would like to echo the TSV-ART
review (Thanks Colin!) that a pointer to RFC6040 could be good in order to
highlight support of ECN for any tunnelling solutions. Also there is
draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels which could be a good pointer/read for this spec.



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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There are several internal inconsistencies that needs to be
resolved before publication, specifically for:
(1) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows
from the Internet to a ~Raf -- Section 6.2.4 says addressed to the ~Raf,
but Figure 7 says "hop".
(2) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows
from a ~Raf to a ~Raf -- Section 6.3.4 says addressed to the ~Raf, but
Figure 7 says "hop"
(3) Table 14 says "(opt: RPI)" which, though not defined, I take to mean
as indicating that the insertion of the RPI is optional, but the body
text in Section 7.1.2 is unconditional that the 6LBR inserts an RPI
header
(4) Section 7.2.1 does not mention adding v6-in-v6 encapsulation, but
Figure 8 has a "must" in that column.
(5) Section 7.3.1 only has descriptive text that "[t]he originating node
should put the RPI into an IPv6-in-IPv6 header", but Figure 8 lists this
behavior as "must" (though there would also be a second v6-in-v6
encapsulationi from root to destination, which is clearly a must).
(Note that Section 7.3.2 covers essentially the same flow, but uses
"which must be in an IPv6-in-IPv6 header addressed to the root".)
(6) In Section 5, we say that the DODAG root "SHOULD force [rank information]
to zero" but then that "[t]he Internet will therefore not see any SenderRank
information", and a SHOULD-level requirement is not enough to guarantee
this statement as fact.

Additionally, there are some terminology inconsistencies in Figures 7
and 8 that need to be cleaned up or explained.  For example, in Figure
7, what is the difference between "Yes" and "must" in the "IPv6-in-IPv6"
column, and in the "v6-in-v6 dst" column, what does "root" mean?
In Figure 8, what does "Opt" mean in the "RPI" column?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 1

   An interim meeting went through the 24 cases defined here to discover
   if there were any shortcuts, and this document is the result of that
   discussion.  This document clarifies examples that intend to
   illustrate the result of the normative language in RFC8200 and
   RFC6553.  In other words, the examples are intended to be normative
   explanation of the results of executing that language.

I agree with the GenART reviewer that this language is hard to parse
into useful expectations, and I'm not sure that the suggestion in
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/FnrfXDQ4ZmGniUpa2y-qKA6bkOg
helps very much.  In particular, what does it mean for an example to be
a "normative explanation"?

Section 2

As noted by the rtgdir reviewer, the volume of new terminology
introduced is rather extensive, and hard for a newcomer to overcome.

   Flag Day: A transition that involves having a network with different
   values of RPL Option Type.  Thus the network does not work correctly.

This does not match up with what I understood the colloquial definition
of "flag day" to be (i.e., the specific act of cutting over from old to
new, designed to minimize the duration of the transient period when the
network does not work correctly, with extensive planning and
coordination needed to effectuate a scheduled, as opposed to rolling,
cutover).  It seems that the later usage of the term "flag day" in this
document is internally consistent with the definition here, at least.

   Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers: The term "hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6"
   header refers to: adding a header that originates from a node to an
   adjacent node, using the addresses (usually the GUA or ULA, but could
   use the link-local addresses) of each node.  If the packet must
   traverse multiple hops, then it must be decapsulated at each hop, and
   then re-encapsulated again in a similar fashion.

I'm not seeing where in the description the "IPv6-in-IPv6" nature is
used -- couldn't this description equally apply to regular hop-by-hop
IPv6 headers?  Is the distinction that the added header is specifically
on the *inner* IPv6 representation?

Section 3.1

   Based on that, if an IPv6 (intermediate) node (RPL-not-capable)
   receives a packet with an RPL Option, it should ignore the HBH RPL
   option (skip over this option and continue processing the header).
   This is relevant, as it was mentioned previously, in the case that
   there is a flow from RPL-aware-leaf to Internet (see Section 6.2.1).

   Thus, this document updates the Option Type field to: the two high
   order bits MUST be set to '00' and the third bit is equal to '1'.

I am not sure that the "Thus" is appropriate -- as the secdir reviewer
notes, the logical connection is a bit tenuous, and the main connection
here seems to just be that 8200 endorses the concept of skipping over
some things, which gives us cover to use an option type that is
skippable.  But I'm probably misunderstanding here, and would welcome an
explanation of the nature of my confusion.

   The non-storing mode case does not require the type change from 0x63
   to 0x23, as the root can always create the right packet.  The type
   change does not adversely affect the non-storing case.

This section doesn't seem to explicitly call out the storing case for
special discussion.  Is there anything useful to say about it?

Section 3.2

                                                         The node will
   know which to use based upon the presence of the DODAG Configuration
   Option described in the next section.  [...]

nit: is it the mere *presence* of the DODAG Configuration Option, or the
information contained therein, that is relevant for this decision?

   There are potential significant advantages to having a single code
   path that always processes IPv6-in-IPv6 headers with no options.

nit(?): There seems to be potential ambiguity about whether "no options"
means "no IPv6 options" or "no conditional branches in the processing
flow".

I'm also not entirely sure how this sentence is supposed to tie in to
the rest of the section.

Figure 3 is pretty sparsely annotated.

Section 4

In Figure 5, why does the line from D to B have an arrowhead but none of
the other lines do?

Section 5

   NOTE: There is some possible security risk when the RPI information
   is released to the Internet.  At this point this is a theoretical
   situation; no clear attack has been described.  At worst, it is clear
   that the RPI option would waste some network bandwidth when it
   escapes.  This is traded off against the savings in the LLN by not
   having to encapsulate the packet in order to remove the artifact.

The risk seems open-ended given the potential for sub-TLVs in the RPI.
Where would a potential author of a new sub-TLV look to get guidance on
the potential security risks from having the sub-TLV contents released
to the internet?  Is there something useful we could add via this
document?
Also, I agree with the secdir reviewer that "at worst" should be "at a
minimum".

   Despite being legal to leave the RPI artifact in place, an
   intermediate router that needs to add an extension header (RH3 or RPI
   Option) MUST still encapsulate the packet in an (additional) outer IP
   header.  The new header is placed after this new outer IP header.

I didn't think that "RH3 or RPI Option" was an exhaustive list, and
isn't this duplicating a requirement from another specification anyway?
(That is, the "MUST" is probably not appropriate.)

   RPI MUST be present in every single RPL data packet.  There is one
   exception in non-storing mode: when a packet is going down from the
   root the RPI MAY be omitted.  The rational is that in a downward non-

This "MUST be present [...] one exception" is not a great way to phrase
things.  Collapsing into the same sentence with a comma "MUST be present
[...], with one execption: [...]" would help some, but it may even be
possible to use descriptive rather than normative language.

nit: s/rational/rationale/

Section 6

   The following table (Figure 7) itemizes which headers are needed in
   each of the following scenarios.  It indicate if an IPv6-in-IPv6
   header must be inserted, and whether the destination address of the
   IPv6-in-IPv6 header is the next hop, or the final target address.
   There are these possible situations: hop-by-hop necessary (indicated
   by "hop"), or final target address possible (indicated by "tgt").  In
   all cases hop by hop may be used rather than the final target
   address.

nit: we could probably make a stronger rhetorical connection betweeen
"the destination address is the next hop" and "hop-by-hop necessary" --
these tables are pretty complicated as-is, so every bit helps!

   In each case, 6LR_i are the intermediate routers from source to
   destination.  "1 <= i <= n", n is the number of routers (6LR) that
   the packet go through from source (6LN) to destination.

nit: singular/plural mismatch with "packet" and "go through"

Section 6.1.1

   For example, a communication flow could be: Node F --> Node E -->
   Node B --> Node A root(6LBR)

I think maybe a directorate reviewer already noted, but it seems that
node D was intended rather than node E.

Section 6.2.2

Should we say what the IPv6-in-IPv6 destination address is set to in
this case?

Section 6.2.3

Why does the 6LBR not remove headers in the the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI)(2) case?

Section 6.2.4

I'm not sure how to interpret the Table.  Does the IPv6 node remove the
RPI or ignore it?

Section 6.3.1

   While the 6LR nodes will update the RPI, no node needs to add or
   remove the RPI, so no IPv6-in-IPv6 headers are necessary.  This may
   be done regardless of where the destination is, as the included RPI
   will be ignored by the receiver.

I'm not sure what variation in the receiver location this is supposed to
allow, given that we have already specified it to be a Raf in the same
RPL Domain.

Section 6.3.4

   not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--> 6LR_1--> 6LR_ia --> 6LR_id --> not-
   RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 dst)

Is the root considered to be a 6LR_ia or a 6LR_id?

   Note that this flow is identical to Section 6.3.3, except for where
   the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is inserted.

I'm still not seeing a difference in where the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is
inserted.

Section 7

   The following table (Figure 8) summarizes what headers are needed in
   the following scenarios, and indicates when the RPI, RH3 and IPv6-in-
   IPv6 header are to be inserted.  There are these possible situations:
   target destination address possible (indicated by "tgt"), to a 6LR,
   to a 6LN or to the root.  In cases where no IPv6-in-IPv6 header is
   needed, the column states as "No".

"There are these possible situations" seems overly broad; if I
understand correctly, it is discussing only the last ("v6-in-v6 dst")
column's possible values.

Is the "to a 6LR" case always going to be "the last 6LR before the 6LN
or 6LBR"?  It may be worth a few words to clarify that.

   The leaf can be a router 6LR or a host, both indicated as 6LN
   (Figure 3).  In the Figure the (1) indicates a 6tisch case [RFC8180],
   where the instanceID portion of the RPI header may still be needed to
   pick an appropriate priority or channel at each hop.

This wording seems to imply that it is possible to cherry-pick just the
instanceID portion of the RPI header without (e.g.) the SenderRank,
which does not match my understanding of what is possible.  Perhaps
"where the RPI header may still be needed for the instanceID to be
available for priority/channel selection at each hop" is better wording?

Section 7.1.2

   The destination is known to RPL-aware because, the root knows the
   whole topology in non-storing mode.

nits: "to be", and no comma is needed.

Section 7.1.3

I think I would prefer if the body text mentioned that an RPI is
optionally added (for the 6tisch case where the instanceID is needed).

I'm not sure that I understand why the RPI is marked as being modified
by the 6LR_i in this case but not in Section 7.1.2.

Table 15 should probably keep the parentheses around "(opt: RPI)" in the
column for the ~Raf.

Section 7.2.4

It seems that Table 20 could coalesce the 6LR_1 column into the 6LR_i
column, and instead break out a 6LR_n column as is done in (e.g.)
Section 7.1.3.

Section 7.3.1

The conventions established previously in this document would seem to
have us include the "IPv6-in-IPV6()" indicator in the "Modified headers"
row.

Section 7.3.2

I think the Table 22 column header is better as 6LR_ia than 6LR_1.
It would be nice to be able to distinguish the generic 6LR_id and 6LR_m
cases, but I'm not sure if there's enough horizontal space for that.
Some textual discussion in the Table legend would be very helpful,
though.

Section 7.3.3

   not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6) --> 6LR_ia --> root (6LBR) --> 6LR_id -->
   6LN

Is there a separate 6LR_1 step to be mentioned here?

It's unclear if there's enough room for it in Table 23, but presumably
the generic 6LR_ia are modifying the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI_1) headers?

Section 7.3.4

   not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--> 6LR_ia --> root (6LBR) --> 6LR_id -->
   not-RPL-aware (IPv6 dst)

Are there separate 6LR_1 and 6LR_m steps to mention here?

As for 7.3.3, Table 24 seems to be missing some columns for intermediate
6LRs that merely modify the RPI headers, though I recognize space
concerns.

Section 8

   The above case occurs whenever traffic originates from the outside
   the LLN (the "Internet" cases above), and non-storing mode is used.
   In non-storing mode, the RPL root knows the exact topology (as it
   must be create the RH3 header), and therefore knows what the 6LR
   prior to the leaf --- the 6LR_n.

nit: "what the 6LR prior to the leaf is" or "which 6LR is immediately
prior to the leaf" or similar

Section 9

   During bootstrapping the node get the DIO with the information of RPL
   Option Type, indicating the new RPI in the DODAG Configuration Option
   Flag.  The DODAG root is in charge to configure the current network
   to the new value, through DIO messages and when all the nodes are set
   with the new value.  [...]

Perhaps a reminder of how "all the nodes are set with the new value" is
detected by the root would be helpful.

   The migration path to the change from 0x63 to 0x23 in networks that
   accepts both values is changed when the DIO is sent with the flag
   indicating the new RPI value.  Namely, it remains at 0x63 until it is

nit: How is it the *migration path* that is changed when the DIO with
flag is sent?  That seems to be making the migration happen, but the
path is the same as it ever was.

Section 11

   While a typical LLN may be a very poor origin for attack traffic (as
   the networks tend to be very slow, and the nodes often have very low
   duty cycles) given enough nodes, they could still have a significant
   impact, particularly if the attack was on another LLN!  Additionally,

I agree with the secdir reviewer that "target of the attack was another
LLN!" (or similar) would be clearer.

   With the above precautions, an attack using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnels will
   be by a node within the LLN on another node within the LLN.  Such an

nit: I'd suggest s/will be/can only be/ to emphasize the restrictive
nature of the precautions.

   The RH3 header usage described here can be abused in equivalent ways
   with an IPv6-in-IPv6 header to add the needed RH3 header.  As such,

I don't think I understand what this is trying to say.  What are the
things that are equivalent?

   The RPI header, if permitted to enter the LLN, could be used by an
   attacker to change the priority of a packet by selecting a different
   RPLInstanceID, perhaps one with a higher energy cost, for instance.
   It could also be that not all nodes are reachable in an LLN using the
   default instanceID, but a change of instanceID would permit an
   attacker to bypass such filtering.  Like the RH3, a RPI header is to
   be inserted by the RPL root on traffic entering the LLN by first
   inserting an IPv6-in-IPv6 header.  The attacker's RPI header
   therefore will not be seen by the network.  Upon reaching the
   destination node the RPI header has no further meaning and is just
   skipped; the presence of a second RPI header will have no meaning to
   the end node as the packet has already been identified as being at
   it's final destination.

This text does not really convince me that it considers the non-storing
case where a packet is directed to a non-6LR-aware leaf, and the last
6LR removes the IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation prior to sending the packet
on to the IPv6 node.

   Nodes within the LLN can use the IPv6-in-IPv6 mechanism to mount an
   attack on another part of the LLN, while disguising the origin of the
   attack.  The mechanism can even be abused to make it appear that the
   attack is coming from outside the LLN, and unless countered, this
   could be used to mount a Distributed Denial Of Service attack upon
   nodes elsewhere in the Internet.  See [DDOS-KREBS] for an example of
   such attacks already seen in the real world.

It's not really clear to me that [DDOS-KREBS] is illustrative of
IPv6-in-IPv6 spoofing from a LLN.

   If an attack comes from inside of LLN, it can be alleviated with SAVI
   (Source Address Validation Improvement) using [RFC8505] with
   [I-D.ietf-6lo-ap-nd].  The attacker will not be able to source with

nit: is "source with" a common term?

   an address that is not registered, and the registration checks for

nit: "registration process"?

   topological correctness.  Notice that there is an L2 authentication
   in most of the cases.  If an attack comes from outside LLN IPv6-in-
   IPv6 can be used to hide inner routing headers, but RH3 is protected
   by its definition.

Protected from what?  How?

   Nodes outside of the LLN will need to pass IPv6-in-IPv6 traffic
   through the RPL root to perform this attack.  To counter, the RPL
   root SHOULD either restrict ingress of IPv6-in-IPv6 packets (the
   simpler solution), or it SHOULD do a deep packet inspection wherein
   it walks the IP header extension chain until it can inspect the
   upper-layer-payload as described in [RFC7045].  In particular, the

RFC 7045 does not use the term "deep packet inspection", that term has
negative connotations for many people, and it's not entirely clear that
it's the right term to describe the process of fully parsing the IPv6
headers, either.



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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 17:05:51 +0300
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Thank you Benjamin,

We will work on the comments.

Best,
Ines


On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 4:53 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are several internal inconsistencies that needs to be
> resolved before publication, specifically for:
> (1) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows
> from the Internet to a ~Raf -- Section 6.2.4 says addressed to the ~Raf,
> but Figure 7 says "hop".
> (2) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows
> from a ~Raf to a ~Raf -- Section 6.3.4 says addressed to the ~Raf, but
> Figure 7 says "hop"
> (3) Table 14 says "(opt: RPI)" which, though not defined, I take to mean
> as indicating that the insertion of the RPI is optional, but the body
> text in Section 7.1.2 is unconditional that the 6LBR inserts an RPI
> header
> (4) Section 7.2.1 does not mention adding v6-in-v6 encapsulation, but
> Figure 8 has a "must" in that column.
> (5) Section 7.3.1 only has descriptive text that "[t]he originating node
> should put the RPI into an IPv6-in-IPv6 header", but Figure 8 lists this
> behavior as "must" (though there would also be a second v6-in-v6
> encapsulationi from root to destination, which is clearly a must).
> (Note that Section 7.3.2 covers essentially the same flow, but uses
> "which must be in an IPv6-in-IPv6 header addressed to the root".)
> (6) In Section 5, we say that the DODAG root "SHOULD force [rank
> information]
> to zero" but then that "[t]he Internet will therefore not see any
> SenderRank
> information", and a SHOULD-level requirement is not enough to guarantee
> this statement as fact.
>
> Additionally, there are some terminology inconsistencies in Figures 7
> and 8 that need to be cleaned up or explained.  For example, in Figure
> 7, what is the difference between "Yes" and "must" in the "IPv6-in-IPv6"
> column, and in the "v6-in-v6 dst" column, what does "root" mean?
> In Figure 8, what does "Opt" mean in the "RPI" column?
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Section 1
>
>    An interim meeting went through the 24 cases defined here to discover
>    if there were any shortcuts, and this document is the result of that
>    discussion.  This document clarifies examples that intend to
>    illustrate the result of the normative language in RFC8200 and
>    RFC6553.  In other words, the examples are intended to be normative
>    explanation of the results of executing that language.
>
> I agree with the GenART reviewer that this language is hard to parse
> into useful expectations, and I'm not sure that the suggestion in
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/FnrfXDQ4ZmGniUpa2y-qKA6bkOg
> helps very much.  In particular, what does it mean for an example to be
> a "normative explanation"?
>
> Section 2
>
> As noted by the rtgdir reviewer, the volume of new terminology
> introduced is rather extensive, and hard for a newcomer to overcome.
>
>    Flag Day: A transition that involves having a network with different
>    values of RPL Option Type.  Thus the network does not work correctly.
>
> This does not match up with what I understood the colloquial definition
> of "flag day" to be (i.e., the specific act of cutting over from old to
> new, designed to minimize the duration of the transient period when the
> network does not work correctly, with extensive planning and
> coordination needed to effectuate a scheduled, as opposed to rolling,
> cutover).  It seems that the later usage of the term "flag day" in this
> document is internally consistent with the definition here, at least.
>
>    Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers: The term "hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6"
>    header refers to: adding a header that originates from a node to an
>    adjacent node, using the addresses (usually the GUA or ULA, but could
>    use the link-local addresses) of each node.  If the packet must
>    traverse multiple hops, then it must be decapsulated at each hop, and
>    then re-encapsulated again in a similar fashion.
>
> I'm not seeing where in the description the "IPv6-in-IPv6" nature is
> used -- couldn't this description equally apply to regular hop-by-hop
> IPv6 headers?  Is the distinction that the added header is specifically
> on the *inner* IPv6 representation?
>
> Section 3.1
>
>    Based on that, if an IPv6 (intermediate) node (RPL-not-capable)
>    receives a packet with an RPL Option, it should ignore the HBH RPL
>    option (skip over this option and continue processing the header).
>    This is relevant, as it was mentioned previously, in the case that
>    there is a flow from RPL-aware-leaf to Internet (see Section 6.2.1).
>
>    Thus, this document updates the Option Type field to: the two high
>    order bits MUST be set to '00' and the third bit is equal to '1'.
>
> I am not sure that the "Thus" is appropriate -- as the secdir reviewer
> notes, the logical connection is a bit tenuous, and the main connection
> here seems to just be that 8200 endorses the concept of skipping over
> some things, which gives us cover to use an option type that is
> skippable.  But I'm probably misunderstanding here, and would welcome an
> explanation of the nature of my confusion.
>
>    The non-storing mode case does not require the type change from 0x63
>    to 0x23, as the root can always create the right packet.  The type
>    change does not adversely affect the non-storing case.
>
> This section doesn't seem to explicitly call out the storing case for
> special discussion.  Is there anything useful to say about it?
>
> Section 3.2
>
>                                                          The node will
>    know which to use based upon the presence of the DODAG Configuration
>    Option described in the next section.  [...]
>
> nit: is it the mere *presence* of the DODAG Configuration Option, or the
> information contained therein, that is relevant for this decision?
>
>    There are potential significant advantages to having a single code
>    path that always processes IPv6-in-IPv6 headers with no options.
>
> nit(?): There seems to be potential ambiguity about whether "no options"
> means "no IPv6 options" or "no conditional branches in the processing
> flow".
>
> I'm also not entirely sure how this sentence is supposed to tie in to
> the rest of the section.
>
> Figure 3 is pretty sparsely annotated.
>
> Section 4
>
> In Figure 5, why does the line from D to B have an arrowhead but none of
> the other lines do?
>
> Section 5
>
>    NOTE: There is some possible security risk when the RPI information
>    is released to the Internet.  At this point this is a theoretical
>    situation; no clear attack has been described.  At worst, it is clear
>    that the RPI option would waste some network bandwidth when it
>    escapes.  This is traded off against the savings in the LLN by not
>    having to encapsulate the packet in order to remove the artifact.
>
> The risk seems open-ended given the potential for sub-TLVs in the RPI.
> Where would a potential author of a new sub-TLV look to get guidance on
> the potential security risks from having the sub-TLV contents released
> to the internet?  Is there something useful we could add via this
> document?
> Also, I agree with the secdir reviewer that "at worst" should be "at a
> minimum".
>
>    Despite being legal to leave the RPI artifact in place, an
>    intermediate router that needs to add an extension header (RH3 or RPI
>    Option) MUST still encapsulate the packet in an (additional) outer IP
>    header.  The new header is placed after this new outer IP header.
>
> I didn't think that "RH3 or RPI Option" was an exhaustive list, and
> isn't this duplicating a requirement from another specification anyway?
> (That is, the "MUST" is probably not appropriate.)
>
>    RPI MUST be present in every single RPL data packet.  There is one
>    exception in non-storing mode: when a packet is going down from the
>    root the RPI MAY be omitted.  The rational is that in a downward non-
>
> This "MUST be present [...] one exception" is not a great way to phrase
> things.  Collapsing into the same sentence with a comma "MUST be present
> [...], with one execption: [...]" would help some, but it may even be
> possible to use descriptive rather than normative language.
>
> nit: s/rational/rationale/
>
> Section 6
>
>    The following table (Figure 7) itemizes which headers are needed in
>    each of the following scenarios.  It indicate if an IPv6-in-IPv6
>    header must be inserted, and whether the destination address of the
>    IPv6-in-IPv6 header is the next hop, or the final target address.
>    There are these possible situations: hop-by-hop necessary (indicated
>    by "hop"), or final target address possible (indicated by "tgt").  In
>    all cases hop by hop may be used rather than the final target
>    address.
>
> nit: we could probably make a stronger rhetorical connection betweeen
> "the destination address is the next hop" and "hop-by-hop necessary" --
> these tables are pretty complicated as-is, so every bit helps!
>
>    In each case, 6LR_i are the intermediate routers from source to
>    destination.  "1 <= i <= n", n is the number of routers (6LR) that
>    the packet go through from source (6LN) to destination.
>
> nit: singular/plural mismatch with "packet" and "go through"
>
> Section 6.1.1
>
>    For example, a communication flow could be: Node F --> Node E -->
>    Node B --> Node A root(6LBR)
>
> I think maybe a directorate reviewer already noted, but it seems that
> node D was intended rather than node E.
>
> Section 6.2.2
>
> Should we say what the IPv6-in-IPv6 destination address is set to in
> this case?
>
> Section 6.2.3
>
> Why does the 6LBR not remove headers in the the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI)(2) case?
>
> Section 6.2.4
>
> I'm not sure how to interpret the Table.  Does the IPv6 node remove the
> RPI or ignore it?
>
> Section 6.3.1
>
>    While the 6LR nodes will update the RPI, no node needs to add or
>    remove the RPI, so no IPv6-in-IPv6 headers are necessary.  This may
>    be done regardless of where the destination is, as the included RPI
>    will be ignored by the receiver.
>
> I'm not sure what variation in the receiver location this is supposed to
> allow, given that we have already specified it to be a Raf in the same
> RPL Domain.
>
> Section 6.3.4
>
>    not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--> 6LR_1--> 6LR_ia --> 6LR_id --> not-
>    RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 dst)
>
> Is the root considered to be a 6LR_ia or a 6LR_id?
>
>    Note that this flow is identical to Section 6.3.3, except for where
>    the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is inserted.
>
> I'm still not seeing a difference in where the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is
> inserted.
>
> Section 7
>
>    The following table (Figure 8) summarizes what headers are needed in
>    the following scenarios, and indicates when the RPI, RH3 and IPv6-in-
>    IPv6 header are to be inserted.  There are these possible situations:
>    target destination address possible (indicated by "tgt"), to a 6LR,
>    to a 6LN or to the root.  In cases where no IPv6-in-IPv6 header is
>    needed, the column states as "No".
>
> "There are these possible situations" seems overly broad; if I
> understand correctly, it is discussing only the last ("v6-in-v6 dst")
> column's possible values.
>
> Is the "to a 6LR" case always going to be "the last 6LR before the 6LN
> or 6LBR"?  It may be worth a few words to clarify that.
>
>    The leaf can be a router 6LR or a host, both indicated as 6LN
>    (Figure 3).  In the Figure the (1) indicates a 6tisch case [RFC8180],
>    where the instanceID portion of the RPI header may still be needed to
>    pick an appropriate priority or channel at each hop.
>
> This wording seems to imply that it is possible to cherry-pick just the
> instanceID portion of the RPI header without (e.g.) the SenderRank,
> which does not match my understanding of what is possible.  Perhaps
> "where the RPI header may still be needed for the instanceID to be
> available for priority/channel selection at each hop" is better wording?
>
> Section 7.1.2
>
>    The destination is known to RPL-aware because, the root knows the
>    whole topology in non-storing mode.
>
> nits: "to be", and no comma is needed.
>
> Section 7.1.3
>
> I think I would prefer if the body text mentioned that an RPI is
> optionally added (for the 6tisch case where the instanceID is needed).
>
> I'm not sure that I understand why the RPI is marked as being modified
> by the 6LR_i in this case but not in Section 7.1.2.
>
> Table 15 should probably keep the parentheses around "(opt: RPI)" in the
> column for the ~Raf.
>
> Section 7.2.4
>
> It seems that Table 20 could coalesce the 6LR_1 column into the 6LR_i
> column, and instead break out a 6LR_n column as is done in (e.g.)
> Section 7.1.3.
>
> Section 7.3.1
>
> The conventions established previously in this document would seem to
> have us include the "IPv6-in-IPV6()" indicator in the "Modified headers"
> row.
>
> Section 7.3.2
>
> I think the Table 22 column header is better as 6LR_ia than 6LR_1.
> It would be nice to be able to distinguish the generic 6LR_id and 6LR_m
> cases, but I'm not sure if there's enough horizontal space for that.
> Some textual discussion in the Table legend would be very helpful,
> though.
>
> Section 7.3.3
>
>    not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6) --> 6LR_ia --> root (6LBR) --> 6LR_id -->
>    6LN
>
> Is there a separate 6LR_1 step to be mentioned here?
>
> It's unclear if there's enough room for it in Table 23, but presumably
> the generic 6LR_ia are modifying the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI_1) headers?
>
> Section 7.3.4
>
>    not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--> 6LR_ia --> root (6LBR) --> 6LR_id -->
>    not-RPL-aware (IPv6 dst)
>
> Are there separate 6LR_1 and 6LR_m steps to mention here?
>
> As for 7.3.3, Table 24 seems to be missing some columns for intermediate
> 6LRs that merely modify the RPI headers, though I recognize space
> concerns.
>
> Section 8
>
>    The above case occurs whenever traffic originates from the outside
>    the LLN (the "Internet" cases above), and non-storing mode is used.
>    In non-storing mode, the RPL root knows the exact topology (as it
>    must be create the RH3 header), and therefore knows what the 6LR
>    prior to the leaf --- the 6LR_n.
>
> nit: "what the 6LR prior to the leaf is" or "which 6LR is immediately
> prior to the leaf" or similar
>
> Section 9
>
>    During bootstrapping the node get the DIO with the information of RPL
>    Option Type, indicating the new RPI in the DODAG Configuration Option
>    Flag.  The DODAG root is in charge to configure the current network
>    to the new value, through DIO messages and when all the nodes are set
>    with the new value.  [...]
>
> Perhaps a reminder of how "all the nodes are set with the new value" is
> detected by the root would be helpful.
>
>    The migration path to the change from 0x63 to 0x23 in networks that
>    accepts both values is changed when the DIO is sent with the flag
>    indicating the new RPI value.  Namely, it remains at 0x63 until it is
>
> nit: How is it the *migration path* that is changed when the DIO with
> flag is sent?  That seems to be making the migration happen, but the
> path is the same as it ever was.
>
> Section 11
>
>    While a typical LLN may be a very poor origin for attack traffic (as
>    the networks tend to be very slow, and the nodes often have very low
>    duty cycles) given enough nodes, they could still have a significant
>    impact, particularly if the attack was on another LLN!  Additionally,
>
> I agree with the secdir reviewer that "target of the attack was another
> LLN!" (or similar) would be clearer.
>
>    With the above precautions, an attack using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnels will
>    be by a node within the LLN on another node within the LLN.  Such an
>
> nit: I'd suggest s/will be/can only be/ to emphasize the restrictive
> nature of the precautions.
>
>    The RH3 header usage described here can be abused in equivalent ways
>    with an IPv6-in-IPv6 header to add the needed RH3 header.  As such,
>
> I don't think I understand what this is trying to say.  What are the
> things that are equivalent?
>
>    The RPI header, if permitted to enter the LLN, could be used by an
>    attacker to change the priority of a packet by selecting a different
>    RPLInstanceID, perhaps one with a higher energy cost, for instance.
>    It could also be that not all nodes are reachable in an LLN using the
>    default instanceID, but a change of instanceID would permit an
>    attacker to bypass such filtering.  Like the RH3, a RPI header is to
>    be inserted by the RPL root on traffic entering the LLN by first
>    inserting an IPv6-in-IPv6 header.  The attacker's RPI header
>    therefore will not be seen by the network.  Upon reaching the
>    destination node the RPI header has no further meaning and is just
>    skipped; the presence of a second RPI header will have no meaning to
>    the end node as the packet has already been identified as being at
>    it's final destination.
>
> This text does not really convince me that it considers the non-storing
> case where a packet is directed to a non-6LR-aware leaf, and the last
> 6LR removes the IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation prior to sending the packet
> on to the IPv6 node.
>
>    Nodes within the LLN can use the IPv6-in-IPv6 mechanism to mount an
>    attack on another part of the LLN, while disguising the origin of the
>    attack.  The mechanism can even be abused to make it appear that the
>    attack is coming from outside the LLN, and unless countered, this
>    could be used to mount a Distributed Denial Of Service attack upon
>    nodes elsewhere in the Internet.  See [DDOS-KREBS] for an example of
>    such attacks already seen in the real world.
>
> It's not really clear to me that [DDOS-KREBS] is illustrative of
> IPv6-in-IPv6 spoofing from a LLN.
>
>    If an attack comes from inside of LLN, it can be alleviated with SAVI
>    (Source Address Validation Improvement) using [RFC8505] with
>    [I-D.ietf-6lo-ap-nd].  The attacker will not be able to source with
>
> nit: is "source with" a common term?
>
>    an address that is not registered, and the registration checks for
>
> nit: "registration process"?
>
>    topological correctness.  Notice that there is an L2 authentication
>    in most of the cases.  If an attack comes from outside LLN IPv6-in-
>    IPv6 can be used to hide inner routing headers, but RH3 is protected
>    by its definition.
>
> Protected from what?  How?
>
>    Nodes outside of the LLN will need to pass IPv6-in-IPv6 traffic
>    through the RPL root to perform this attack.  To counter, the RPL
>    root SHOULD either restrict ingress of IPv6-in-IPv6 packets (the
>    simpler solution), or it SHOULD do a deep packet inspection wherein
>    it walks the IP header extension chain until it can inspect the
>    upper-layer-payload as described in [RFC7045].  In particular, the
>
> RFC 7045 does not use the term "deep packet inspection", that term has
> negative connotations for many people, and it's not entirely clear that
> it's the right term to describe the process of fully parsing the IPv6
> headers, either.
>
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you Benjamin,=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>We will work =
on the comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,=C2=A0</div><div>Ines</div><=
div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 4:53 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatrack=
er &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Benjamin Kaduk h=
as entered the following ballot position for<br>
draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: Discuss<br>
<br>
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<br>
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br>
introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit=
eria.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s=
tatement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
<br>
<br>
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
DISCUSS:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
There are several internal inconsistencies that needs to be<br>
resolved before publication, specifically for:<br>
(1) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows<br>
from the Internet to a ~Raf -- Section 6.2.4 says addressed to the ~Raf,<br=
>
but Figure 7 says &quot;hop&quot;.<br>
(2) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows<br>
from a ~Raf to a ~Raf -- Section 6.3.4 says addressed to the ~Raf, but<br>
Figure 7 says &quot;hop&quot;<br>
(3) Table 14 says &quot;(opt: RPI)&quot; which, though not defined, I take =
to mean<br>
as indicating that the insertion of the RPI is optional, but the body<br>
text in Section 7.1.2 is unconditional that the 6LBR inserts an RPI<br>
header<br>
(4) Section 7.2.1 does not mention adding v6-in-v6 encapsulation, but<br>
Figure 8 has a &quot;must&quot; in that column.<br>
(5) Section 7.3.1 only has descriptive text that &quot;[t]he originating no=
de<br>
should put the RPI into an IPv6-in-IPv6 header&quot;, but Figure 8 lists th=
is<br>
behavior as &quot;must&quot; (though there would also be a second v6-in-v6<=
br>
encapsulationi from root to destination, which is clearly a must).<br>
(Note that Section 7.3.2 covers essentially the same flow, but uses<br>
&quot;which must be in an IPv6-in-IPv6 header addressed to the root&quot;.)=
<br>
(6) In Section 5, we say that the DODAG root &quot;SHOULD force [rank infor=
mation]<br>
to zero&quot; but then that &quot;[t]he Internet will therefore not see any=
 SenderRank<br>
information&quot;, and a SHOULD-level requirement is not enough to guarante=
e<br>
this statement as fact.<br>
<br>
Additionally, there are some terminology inconsistencies in Figures 7<br>
and 8 that need to be cleaned up or explained.=C2=A0 For example, in Figure=
<br>
7, what is the difference between &quot;Yes&quot; and &quot;must&quot; in t=
he &quot;IPv6-in-IPv6&quot;<br>
column, and in the &quot;v6-in-v6 dst&quot; column, what does &quot;root&qu=
ot; mean?<br>
In Figure 8, what does &quot;Opt&quot; mean in the &quot;RPI&quot; column?<=
br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Section 1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0An interim meeting went through the 24 cases defined here to d=
iscover<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0if there were any shortcuts, and this document is the result o=
f that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0discussion.=C2=A0 This document clarifies examples that intend=
 to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0illustrate the result of the normative language in RFC8200 and=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RFC6553.=C2=A0 In other words, the examples are intended to be=
 normative<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0explanation of the results of executing that language.<br>
<br>
I agree with the GenART reviewer that this language is hard to parse<br>
into useful expectations, and I&#39;m not sure that the suggestion in<br>
<a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/FnrfXDQ4ZmGniUpa2y=
-qKA6bkOg" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.or=
g/arch/msg/gen-art/FnrfXDQ4ZmGniUpa2y-qKA6bkOg</a><br>
helps very much.=C2=A0 In particular, what does it mean for an example to b=
e<br>
a &quot;normative explanation&quot;?<br>
<br>
Section 2<br>
<br>
As noted by the rtgdir reviewer, the volume of new terminology<br>
introduced is rather extensive, and hard for a newcomer to overcome.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Flag Day: A transition that involves having a network with dif=
ferent<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0values of RPL Option Type.=C2=A0 Thus the network does not wor=
k correctly.<br>
<br>
This does not match up with what I understood the colloquial definition<br>
of &quot;flag day&quot; to be (i.e., the specific act of cutting over from =
old to<br>
new, designed to minimize the duration of the transient period when the<br>
network does not work correctly, with extensive planning and<br>
coordination needed to effectuate a scheduled, as opposed to rolling,<br>
cutover).=C2=A0 It seems that the later usage of the term &quot;flag day&qu=
ot; in this<br>
document is internally consistent with the definition here, at least.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers: The term &quot;hop-by-hop IPv=
6-in-IPv6&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0header refers to: adding a header that originates from a node =
to an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0adjacent node, using the addresses (usually the GUA or ULA, bu=
t could<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0use the link-local addresses) of each node.=C2=A0 If the packe=
t must<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverse multiple hops, then it must be decapsulated at each h=
op, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0then re-encapsulated again in a similar fashion.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not seeing where in the description the &quot;IPv6-in-IPv6&quot; na=
ture is<br>
used -- couldn&#39;t this description equally apply to regular hop-by-hop<b=
r>
IPv6 headers?=C2=A0 Is the distinction that the added header is specificall=
y<br>
on the *inner* IPv6 representation?<br>
<br>
Section 3.1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Based on that, if an IPv6 (intermediate) node (RPL-not-capable=
)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0receives a packet with an RPL Option, it should ignore the HBH=
 RPL<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0option (skip over this option and continue processing the head=
er).<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is relevant, as it was mentioned previously, in the case =
that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0there is a flow from RPL-aware-leaf to Internet (see Section 6=
.2.1).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thus, this document updates the Option Type field to: the two =
high<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0order bits MUST be set to &#39;00&#39; and the third bit is eq=
ual to &#39;1&#39;.<br>
<br>
I am not sure that the &quot;Thus&quot; is appropriate -- as the secdir rev=
iewer<br>
notes, the logical connection is a bit tenuous, and the main connection<br>
here seems to just be that 8200 endorses the concept of skipping over<br>
some things, which gives us cover to use an option type that is<br>
skippable.=C2=A0 But I&#39;m probably misunderstanding here, and would welc=
ome an<br>
explanation of the nature of my confusion.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The non-storing mode case does not require the type change fro=
m 0x63<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to 0x23, as the root can always create the right packet.=C2=A0=
 The type<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0change does not adversely affect the non-storing case.<br>
<br>
This section doesn&#39;t seem to explicitly call out the storing case for<b=
r>
special discussion.=C2=A0 Is there anything useful to say about it?<br>
<br>
Section 3.2<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The node will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0know which to use based upon the presence of the DODAG Configu=
ration<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Option described in the next section.=C2=A0 [...]<br>
<br>
nit: is it the mere *presence* of the DODAG Configuration Option, or the<br=
>
information contained therein, that is relevant for this decision?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are potential significant advantages to having a single =
code<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0path that always processes IPv6-in-IPv6 headers with no option=
s.<br>
<br>
nit(?): There seems to be potential ambiguity about whether &quot;no option=
s&quot;<br>
means &quot;no IPv6 options&quot; or &quot;no conditional branches in the p=
rocessing<br>
flow&quot;.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m also not entirely sure how this sentence is supposed to tie in to<b=
r>
the rest of the section.<br>
<br>
Figure 3 is pretty sparsely annotated.<br>
<br>
Section 4<br>
<br>
In Figure 5, why does the line from D to B have an arrowhead but none of<br=
>
the other lines do?<br>
<br>
Section 5<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0NOTE: There is some possible security risk when the RPI inform=
ation<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is released to the Internet.=C2=A0 At this point this is a the=
oretical<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0situation; no clear attack has been described.=C2=A0 At worst,=
 it is clear<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that the RPI option would waste some network bandwidth when it=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0escapes.=C2=A0 This is traded off against the savings in the L=
LN by not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0having to encapsulate the packet in order to remove the artifa=
ct.<br>
<br>
The risk seems open-ended given the potential for sub-TLVs in the RPI.<br>
Where would a potential author of a new sub-TLV look to get guidance on<br>
the potential security risks from having the sub-TLV contents released<br>
to the internet?=C2=A0 Is there something useful we could add via this<br>
document?<br>
Also, I agree with the secdir reviewer that &quot;at worst&quot; should be =
&quot;at a<br>
minimum&quot;.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Despite being legal to leave the RPI artifact in place, an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0intermediate router that needs to add an extension header (RH3=
 or RPI<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Option) MUST still encapsulate the packet in an (additional) o=
uter IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0header.=C2=A0 The new header is placed after this new outer IP=
 header.<br>
<br>
I didn&#39;t think that &quot;RH3 or RPI Option&quot; was an exhaustive lis=
t, and<br>
isn&#39;t this duplicating a requirement from another specification anyway?=
<br>
(That is, the &quot;MUST&quot; is probably not appropriate.)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPI MUST be present in every single RPL data packet.=C2=A0 The=
re is one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0exception in non-storing mode: when a packet is going down fro=
m the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0root the RPI MAY be omitted.=C2=A0 The rational is that in a d=
ownward non-<br>
<br>
This &quot;MUST be present [...] one exception&quot; is not a great way to =
phrase<br>
things.=C2=A0 Collapsing into the same sentence with a comma &quot;MUST be =
present<br>
[...], with one execption: [...]&quot; would help some, but it may even be<=
br>
possible to use descriptive rather than normative language.<br>
<br>
nit: s/rational/rationale/<br>
<br>
Section 6<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The following table (Figure 7) itemizes which headers are need=
ed in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0each of the following scenarios.=C2=A0 It indicate if an IPv6-=
in-IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0header must be inserted, and whether the destination address o=
f the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6-in-IPv6 header is the next hop, or the final target addre=
ss.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are these possible situations: hop-by-hop necessary (ind=
icated<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by &quot;hop&quot;), or final target address possible (indicat=
ed by &quot;tgt&quot;).=C2=A0 In<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0all cases hop by hop may be used rather than the final target<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address.<br>
<br>
nit: we could probably make a stronger rhetorical connection betweeen<br>
&quot;the destination address is the next hop&quot; and &quot;hop-by-hop ne=
cessary&quot; --<br>
these tables are pretty complicated as-is, so every bit helps!<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In each case, 6LR_i are the intermediate routers from source t=
o<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination.=C2=A0 &quot;1 &lt;=3D i &lt;=3D n&quot;, n is the=
 number of routers (6LR) that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the packet go through from source (6LN) to destination.<br>
<br>
nit: singular/plural mismatch with &quot;packet&quot; and &quot;go through&=
quot;<br>
<br>
Section 6.1.1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0For example, a communication flow could be: Node F --&gt; Node=
 E --&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Node B --&gt; Node A root(6LBR)<br>
<br>
I think maybe a directorate reviewer already noted, but it seems that<br>
node D was intended rather than node E.<br>
<br>
Section 6.2.2<br>
<br>
Should we say what the IPv6-in-IPv6 destination address is set to in<br>
this case?<br>
<br>
Section 6.2.3<br>
<br>
Why does the 6LBR not remove headers in the the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI)(2) case?<=
br>
<br>
Section 6.2.4<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not sure how to interpret the Table.=C2=A0 Does the IPv6 node remov=
e the<br>
RPI or ignore it?<br>
<br>
Section 6.3.1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0While the 6LR nodes will update the RPI, no node needs to add =
or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0remove the RPI, so no IPv6-in-IPv6 headers are necessary.=C2=
=A0 This may<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be done regardless of where the destination is, as the include=
d RPI<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0will be ignored by the receiver.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not sure what variation in the receiver location this is supposed t=
o<br>
allow, given that we have already specified it to be a Raf in the same<br>
RPL Domain.<br>
<br>
Section 6.3.4<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--&gt; 6LR_1--&gt; 6LR_ia --&gt; 6=
LR_id --&gt; not-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 dst)<br>
<br>
Is the root considered to be a 6LR_ia or a 6LR_id?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that this flow is identical to Section 6.3.3, except for =
where<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is inserted.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m still not seeing a difference in where the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is<b=
r>
inserted.<br>
<br>
Section 7<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The following table (Figure 8) summarizes what headers are nee=
ded in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the following scenarios, and indicates when the RPI, RH3 and I=
Pv6-in-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 header are to be inserted.=C2=A0 There are these possible=
 situations:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0target destination address possible (indicated by &quot;tgt&qu=
ot;), to a 6LR,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to a 6LN or to the root.=C2=A0 In cases where no IPv6-in-IPv6 =
header is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0needed, the column states as &quot;No&quot;.<br>
<br>
&quot;There are these possible situations&quot; seems overly broad; if I<br=
>
understand correctly, it is discussing only the last (&quot;v6-in-v6 dst&qu=
ot;)<br>
column&#39;s possible values.<br>
<br>
Is the &quot;to a 6LR&quot; case always going to be &quot;the last 6LR befo=
re the 6LN<br>
or 6LBR&quot;?=C2=A0 It may be worth a few words to clarify that.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The leaf can be a router 6LR or a host, both indicated as 6LN<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Figure 3).=C2=A0 In the Figure the (1) indicates a 6tisch cas=
e [RFC8180],<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0where the instanceID portion of the RPI header may still be ne=
eded to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0pick an appropriate priority or channel at each hop.<br>
<br>
This wording seems to imply that it is possible to cherry-pick just the<br>
instanceID portion of the RPI header without (e.g.) the SenderRank,<br>
which does not match my understanding of what is possible.=C2=A0 Perhaps<br=
>
&quot;where the RPI header may still be needed for the instanceID to be<br>
available for priority/channel selection at each hop&quot; is better wordin=
g?<br>
<br>
Section 7.1.2<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The destination is known to RPL-aware because, the root knows =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0whole topology in non-storing mode.<br>
<br>
nits: &quot;to be&quot;, and no comma is needed.<br>
<br>
Section 7.1.3<br>
<br>
I think I would prefer if the body text mentioned that an RPI is<br>
optionally added (for the 6tisch case where the instanceID is needed).<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not sure that I understand why the RPI is marked as being modified<=
br>
by the 6LR_i in this case but not in Section 7.1.2.<br>
<br>
Table 15 should probably keep the parentheses around &quot;(opt: RPI)&quot;=
 in the<br>
column for the ~Raf.<br>
<br>
Section 7.2.4<br>
<br>
It seems that Table 20 could coalesce the 6LR_1 column into the 6LR_i<br>
column, and instead break out a 6LR_n column as is done in (e.g.)<br>
Section 7.1.3.<br>
<br>
Section 7.3.1<br>
<br>
The conventions established previously in this document would seem to<br>
have us include the &quot;IPv6-in-IPV6()&quot; indicator in the &quot;Modif=
ied headers&quot;<br>
row.<br>
<br>
Section 7.3.2<br>
<br>
I think the Table 22 column header is better as 6LR_ia than 6LR_1.<br>
It would be nice to be able to distinguish the generic 6LR_id and 6LR_m<br>
cases, but I&#39;m not sure if there&#39;s enough horizontal space for that=
.<br>
Some textual discussion in the Table legend would be very helpful,<br>
though.<br>
<br>
Section 7.3.3<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6) --&gt; 6LR_ia --&gt; root (6LBR) --&g=
t; 6LR_id --&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A06LN<br>
<br>
Is there a separate 6LR_1 step to be mentioned here?<br>
<br>
It&#39;s unclear if there&#39;s enough room for it in Table 23, but presuma=
bly<br>
the generic 6LR_ia are modifying the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI_1) headers?<br>
<br>
Section 7.3.4<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--&gt; 6LR_ia --&gt; root (6LBR) -=
-&gt; 6LR_id --&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not-RPL-aware (IPv6 dst)<br>
<br>
Are there separate 6LR_1 and 6LR_m steps to mention here?<br>
<br>
As for 7.3.3, Table 24 seems to be missing some columns for intermediate<br=
>
6LRs that merely modify the RPI headers, though I recognize space<br>
concerns.<br>
<br>
Section 8<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The above case occurs whenever traffic originates from the out=
side<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the LLN (the &quot;Internet&quot; cases above), and non-storin=
g mode is used.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In non-storing mode, the RPL root knows the exact topology (as=
 it<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0must be create the RH3 header), and therefore knows what the 6=
LR<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to the leaf --- the 6LR_n.<br>
<br>
nit: &quot;what the 6LR prior to the leaf is&quot; or &quot;which 6LR is im=
mediately<br>
prior to the leaf&quot; or similar<br>
<br>
Section 9<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0During bootstrapping the node get the DIO with the information=
 of RPL<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Option Type, indicating the new RPI in the DODAG Configuration=
 Option<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Flag.=C2=A0 The DODAG root is in charge to configure the curre=
nt network<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to the new value, through DIO messages and when all the nodes =
are set<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with the new value.=C2=A0 [...]<br>
<br>
Perhaps a reminder of how &quot;all the nodes are set with the new value&qu=
ot; is<br>
detected by the root would be helpful.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The migration path to the change from 0x63 to 0x23 in networks=
 that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0accepts both values is changed when the DIO is sent with the f=
lag<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0indicating the new RPI value.=C2=A0 Namely, it remains at 0x63=
 until it is<br>
<br>
nit: How is it the *migration path* that is changed when the DIO with<br>
flag is sent?=C2=A0 That seems to be making the migration happen, but the<b=
r>
path is the same as it ever was.<br>
<br>
Section 11<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0While a typical LLN may be a very poor origin for attack traff=
ic (as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the networks tend to be very slow, and the nodes often have ve=
ry low<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0duty cycles) given enough nodes, they could still have a signi=
ficant<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0impact, particularly if the attack was on another LLN!=C2=A0 A=
dditionally,<br>
<br>
I agree with the secdir reviewer that &quot;target of the attack was anothe=
r<br>
LLN!&quot; (or similar) would be clearer.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0With the above precautions, an attack using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunne=
ls will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be by a node within the LLN on another node within the LLN.=C2=
=A0 Such an<br>
<br>
nit: I&#39;d suggest s/will be/can only be/ to emphasize the restrictive<br=
>
nature of the precautions.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The RH3 header usage described here can be abused in equivalen=
t ways<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with an IPv6-in-IPv6 header to add the needed RH3 header.=C2=
=A0 As such,<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t think I understand what this is trying to say.=C2=A0 What are t=
he<br>
things that are equivalent?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The RPI header, if permitted to enter the LLN, could be used b=
y an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attacker to change the priority of a packet by selecting a dif=
ferent<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPLInstanceID, perhaps one with a higher energy cost, for inst=
ance.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0It could also be that not all nodes are reachable in an LLN us=
ing the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0default instanceID, but a change of instanceID would permit an=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attacker to bypass such filtering.=C2=A0 Like the RH3, a RPI h=
eader is to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be inserted by the RPL root on traffic entering the LLN by fir=
st<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0inserting an IPv6-in-IPv6 header.=C2=A0 The attacker&#39;s RPI=
 header<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0therefore will not be seen by the network.=C2=A0 Upon reaching=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination node the RPI header has no further meaning and is =
just<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0skipped; the presence of a second RPI header will have no mean=
ing to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the end node as the packet has already been identified as bein=
g at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it&#39;s final destination.<br>
<br>
This text does not really convince me that it considers the non-storing<br>
case where a packet is directed to a non-6LR-aware leaf, and the last<br>
6LR removes the IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation prior to sending the packet<br>
on to the IPv6 node.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Nodes within the LLN can use the IPv6-in-IPv6 mechanism to mou=
nt an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack on another part of the LLN, while disguising the origin=
 of the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack.=C2=A0 The mechanism can even be abused to make it appe=
ar that the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack is coming from outside the LLN, and unless countered, t=
his<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0could be used to mount a Distributed Denial Of Service attack =
upon<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0nodes elsewhere in the Internet.=C2=A0 See [DDOS-KREBS] for an=
 example of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0such attacks already seen in the real world.<br>
<br>
It&#39;s not really clear to me that [DDOS-KREBS] is illustrative of<br>
IPv6-in-IPv6 spoofing from a LLN.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If an attack comes from inside of LLN, it can be alleviated wi=
th SAVI<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Source Address Validation Improvement) using [RFC8505] with<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-6lo-ap-nd].=C2=A0 The attacker will not be able to s=
ource with<br>
<br>
nit: is &quot;source with&quot; a common term?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0an address that is not registered, and the registration checks=
 for<br>
<br>
nit: &quot;registration process&quot;?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0topological correctness.=C2=A0 Notice that there is an L2 auth=
entication<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in most of the cases.=C2=A0 If an attack comes from outside LL=
N IPv6-in-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 can be used to hide inner routing headers, but RH3 is pro=
tected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by its definition.<br>
<br>
Protected from what?=C2=A0 How?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Nodes outside of the LLN will need to pass IPv6-in-IPv6 traffi=
c<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0through the RPL root to perform this attack.=C2=A0 To counter,=
 the RPL<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0root SHOULD either restrict ingress of IPv6-in-IPv6 packets (t=
he<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0simpler solution), or it SHOULD do a deep packet inspection wh=
erein<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it walks the IP header extension chain until it can inspect th=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0upper-layer-payload as described in [RFC7045].=C2=A0 In partic=
ular, the<br>
<br>
RFC 7045 does not use the term &quot;deep packet inspection&quot;, that ter=
m has<br>
negative connotations for many people, and it&#39;s not entirely clear that=
<br>
it&#39;s the right term to describe the process of fully parsing the IPv6<b=
r>
headers, either.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000d2bac80587e82239--


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On Wed, 01 May 2019 23:13:15 -0700 =C3=89ric Vyncke wrote:
> I am balloting a DISCUSS for two reasons:
>
> 1) in section 3.1,  I am failing to understand the link between RFC8200 H=
bH
> behavior and why the RPI code needs to be changed to 0x23.  =3D> a clear
> explanation is required on why the option 0x23 is linked to RFC 8200: I f=
ail
> to understand the authors' logic. At first sight, with the new RFC8200 Hb=
H
> handling, there is no need to change the RPI code from 0x63 as most route=
rs
> will ignore HbH anyway.

The change is not really linked to RFC 8200, but it is necessary nonetheles=
s.

The relevant use case is the one in Section 6.2.1, storing mode flow from
RPL-aware-leaf to the general Internet. In this case an RPL-aware leaf
originates a packet whose destination is a host in the general Internet,
and that packet contains the RPI hop-by-hop option.

Suppose there is a router in the general Internet part of the path that eit=
her
(a) is RFC 2460 compliant or (b) is RFC 8200 compliant and is configured to
process the HbH Options extension header and (c) does not recognize the RPI
option (as is expected of most routers in the general Internet, whether the=
y
process other HbH options or not). If the RPI option type is 0x63, that rou=
ter
is required to drop the packet. If the RPI option type is 0x23 (or any opti=
on
type whose two most significant bits are 00), that router will skip over th=
e
RPI option. The latter behavior is what is desired, hence the need to chang=
e
the option type.

> 2) the document deserves a better text as there are too many nits, unexpa=
nded
> acronyms, ... the reader has hard time to understand the document.

Indeed, some work on the table formatting to get rid of the wrapped words
would be especially helpful.

Mike Heard


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On April 27, 2019 at 2:07:34 PM, Rahul Jadhav (rahul.ietf@gmail.com) wrote:

Rahul

Hi!

I have some remaining comments below.  I think that all of them can be
handled as IETF Last Call comments =E2=80=94 so I=E2=80=99ll go ahead and s=
tart it.

The only remaining item is whether you (the WG) want an ancestor to be able
(as a feature) to generate a DCO without the corresponding DAO=E2=80=A6. I=
=E2=80=99ll let
you discuss that in the WG an include it (or not) before we start IESG
Evaluation.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


...

418 4.3.2. DCO Options


420 The DCO message MAY carry valid options. This specification allows
421 for the DCO message to carry the following options:

423 0x00 Pad1
424 0x01 PadN
425 0x05 RPL Target
426 0x06 Transit Information
427 0x09 RPL Target Descriptor

429 The DCO carries a Target option and an associated Transit Information
430 option with a lifetime of 0x00000000 to indicate a loss of
431 reachability to that Target.

[major] Are the RPL Target and Transit Information options mandatory? If
so, then that is at odds with the MAY above.

[RJ] Explicitly added the MUST clause for Target and Transit options. Also
the
lifetime field in the transit option MUST be set to 0 in DCO's transit
option.

The new text is redundant (talks about the lifetime twice):

   The DCO carries an RPL Target Option and an associated Transit

   Information Option with a lifetime of 0x00000000 to indicate a loss

   of reachability to that Target.  The lifetime indicated in the

   Transit Information Option of the DCO message MUST be set to

   0x00000000.

...

433 4.3.3. Path Sequence number in the DCO

435 A DCO message may contain a Path Sequence in the transit information
436 option to identify the freshness of the DCO message. The Path
437 Sequence in the DCO MUST use the same Path Sequence number present in
438 the regular DAO message when the DCO is generated in response to DAO
439 message. The DAO and DCO path sequence are picked from the same
440 sequence number set. Thus if a DCO is received by a 6LR and
441 subsequently a DAO is received with old seqeunce number, then the DAO
442 should be ignored.

[minor] To make sure I'm clear: the "DCO path sequence" refers to the Path
Sequence field in the Transit Information Option, right? If so, please be
clear and specific.

[RJ] Updated.

There is redundant text here too:

   Option to identify the freshness of the DCO message.  The Path

   Sequence in the DCO MUST use the same Path Sequence number present in

   the regular DAO message when the DCO is generated in response to a

   DAO message.  The Path Sequence present in the Transit Information

   Option of the DAO and the correspondingly triggered DCO MUST be same.

...

[major] "Path Sequence in the DCO MUST use the same Path Sequence number
present in the regular DAO message when the DCO is generated in response to
DAO message" The DAO message is obviously the one that triggered the
DCO... When would a DCO *not* be originated in response to a DAO? Are
there other cases when the DCO can be originated? Requiring the same Path
Sequence is fine...the reason for this comment is the condition ("when the
DCO...").

[RJ] One other condition that i can think of is, if the common ancestor nod=
e

somehow believes that there are other high priority routing entries that it
must entertain, thus evicting existing ones. During such eviction the commo=
n

ancestor node could make use of the stored path sequence and initiate a DCO=
.

DCO can fully support this in current form. Do you think this use-case make=
s

sense? We introduced 'I' bit especially so that target is in full control o=
f

its own invalidation. With such change we loosen up that part.

Hmm=E2=80=A6I initially thought that this case would be a vulnerability. :-=
(

Are there cases that you can come up with where those other =E2=80=9Chigh p=
riority
routing entries=E2=80=9D would have to be invalidated and that they wouldn=
=E2=80=99t just
be preferred normally??  It is really up to the WG to determine if that is
an use case that makes sense=E2=80=A6.

Either way, the vulnerability still exists.


...

498 4.4.1. Dependent Nodes invalidation

500 Current RPL [RFC6550] does not provide a mechanism for route
501 invalidation for dependent nodes. This document allows the dependent
502 nodes invalidation. Dependent nodes will generate their respective
503 DAOs to update their paths, and the previous route invalidation for
504 those nodes should work in the similar manner described for switching
505 node. The dependent node may set the I-bit in the transit
506 information option as part of regular DAO so as to request
507 invalidation of previous route from the common ancestor node.

[major] This part is underspecified. How do the dependent nodes know of
the switch? Is A (Figure 1) the common ancestor node mentioned above?

I found the same question being asked during WGLC, and the answer seems to
be: "the dependent nodes will always set the I-flag". Is that my correct
interpretation? The behavior needs to be reflected in the specification.

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/LejLNET8Hk92wPWU3Xi6OaxCujg

[RJ] I have added a para to describe this more. Please check if it makes
sense.

If the dependent node always sets the I bit, wouldn=E2=80=99t that result i=
n
constant invalidation (unless no route existed before)?  IOW, it seems like
the setting of the I bit has to be conditional.  The mail archive talks
about the DTSN incrementing =E2=80=94 I=E2=80=99m assuming this will happen=
 then the parent
switches to a different parent=E2=80=A6is that true?  If so, then I think t=
hat this
piece of text still needs some work.

[nit] The I bit is sometimes called the I flag=E2=80=A6please be consistent=
.

...

570 7. Security Considerations

[major] This section mostly points at rfc6550 (which is ok), but it doesn't
say anything about vulnerabilities (if any) that this specification may be
introducing...or why it doesn't. [See my related comment in =C2=A74.3.3.]

I would like to see (perhaps after the current text) something along the
lines of "This document introduces the ability to do abc. It doesn't
introduce any new vulnerabilities becasue... OR ... These are the new
vulnerabilities and this is how they can be mitigated...or why they are not
really of concern..."

[RJ] Have added this text in the beginning of the security considerations
section. Also have updated the "Unsecured" mode para, to say that the DCO
and
DCO-ACK MUST be link-layer encrypted if link-layer security is been put to
use.

That is not what I read in the new text: "A DCO and DCO-ACK message which
is not encrypted at link-layer MUST not be handled by the RPL layer.  Also
all the DCO and DCO-ACK messages that are transmitted MUST be link-layer
encrypted.=E2=80=9D  I read this text as saying that the DCO/DCO-ACK MUST a=
lways be
link-layer encrypted=E2=80=A6 I couldn=E2=80=99t find that to be the same e=
xpectation as in
rfc6550.

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">On April 27, 2019 at 2:07:34 PM, Rahul Jadhav (<=
a href=3D"mailto:rahul.ietf@gmail.com">rahul.ietf@gmail.com</a>) wrote:</di=
v><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Rahul</div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"fon=
t-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Hi!</div><div style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvet=
ica,Arial;font-size:13px">I have some remaining comments below.=C2=A0 I thi=
nk that all of them can be handled as IETF Last Call comments =E2=80=94 so =
I=E2=80=99ll go ahead and start it.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetic=
a,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial=
;font-size:13px">The only remaining item is whether you (the WG) want an an=
cestor to be able (as a feature) to generate a DCO without the correspondin=
g DAO=E2=80=A6. I=E2=80=99ll let you discuss that in the WG an include it (=
or not) before we start IESG Evaluation.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Hel=
vetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,=
Arial;font-size:13px">Thanks!</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Aria=
l;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-=
size:13px">Alvaro.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size=
:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">=
<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">...</di=
v> <div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:H=
elvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fo=
nt-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;tex=
t-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div><div></div=
><div>418 4.3.2. DCO Options=C2=A0</div></div></span></blockquote></div><di=
v><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:norma=
l;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px=
;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div><div><=
br>420 The DCO message MAY carry valid options. This specification allows<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>421 for the DCO messag=
e to carry the following options:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=
=A0</span><br><br>423 0x00 Pad1<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span><br>424 0x01 PadN<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>=
<br>425 0x05 RPL Target<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><=
br>426 0x06 Transit Information<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span><br>427 0x09 RPL Target Descriptor<span class=3D"Apple-converted-spa=
ce">=C2=A0</span><br><br>429 The DCO carries a Target option and an associa=
ted Transit Information<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><=
br>430 option with a lifetime of 0x00000000 to indicate a loss of<span clas=
s=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>431 reachability to that Targe=
t.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br><br>[major] Are th=
e RPL Target and Transit Information options mandatory? If<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>so, then that is at odds with the MAY=
 above.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br><br>[RJ] Expl=
icitly added the MUST clause for Target and Transit options. Also the<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>lifetime field in the tran=
sit option MUST be set to 0 in DCO&#39;s transit option.<span class=3D"Appl=
e-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></div></div></span></blockquote></div></div=
><p>The new text is redundant (talks about the lifetime twice):</p><p>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0The DCO carries an RPL Target Option and an associated Transit</p=
><p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Information Option with a lifetime of 0x00000000 to indica=
te a loss</p><p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0of reachability to that Target.=C2=A0 The life=
time indicated in the</p><p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Transit Information Option of the =
DCO message MUST be set to</p><p>=C2=A0 =C2=A00x00000000.</p><div><br></div=
><p>...</p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"=
font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-c=
aps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-i=
ndent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><d=
iv><div>433 4.3.3. Path Sequence number in the DCO<span class=3D"Apple-conv=
erted-space">=C2=A0</span><br><br>435 A DCO message may contain a Path Sequ=
ence in the transit information<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span><br>436 option to identify the freshness of the DCO message. The Pat=
h<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>437 Sequence in the=
 DCO MUST use the same Path Sequence number present in<span class=3D"Apple-=
converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>438 the regular DAO message when the DCO =
is generated in response to DAO<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span><br>439 message. The DAO and DCO path sequence are picked from the s=
ame<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>440 sequence numb=
er set. Thus if a DCO is received by a 6LR and<span class=3D"Apple-converte=
d-space">=C2=A0</span><br>441 subsequently a DAO is received with old seqeu=
nce number, then the DAO<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>=
<br>442 should be ignored.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</spa=
n><br><br>[minor] To make sure I&#39;m clear: the &quot;DCO path sequence&q=
uot; refers to the Path<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><=
br>Sequence field in the Transit Information Option, right? If so, please b=
e<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>clear and specific.=
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br><br>[RJ] Updated.<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></div></div></span></blockq=
uote></div><p>There is redundant text here too:</p><p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Option t=
o identify the freshness of the DCO message.=C2=A0 The Path</p><p>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0Sequence in the DCO MUST use the same Path Sequence number present in=
</p><p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0the regular DAO message when the DCO is generated in re=
sponse to a</p><p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0DAO message.=C2=A0 The Path Sequence present=
 in the Transit Information</p><p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Option of the DAO and the co=
rrespondingly triggered DCO MUST be same.</p><div><br></div><div>...</div><=
div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:=
Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;f=
ont-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;te=
xt-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div><div>[maj=
or] &quot;Path Sequence in the DCO MUST use the same Path Sequence number<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>present in the regular=
 DAO message when the DCO is generated in response to<span class=3D"Apple-c=
onverted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>DAO message&quot; The DAO message is obvio=
usly the one that triggered the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span><br>DCO... When would a DCO *not* be originated in response to a DAO=
? Are<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>there other cas=
es when the DCO can be originated? Requiring the same Path<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>Sequence is fine...the reason for thi=
s comment is the condition (&quot;when the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-sp=
ace">=C2=A0</span><br>DCO...&quot;).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span><br><br>[RJ] One other condition that i can think of is, if th=
e common ancestor node<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><b=
r>somehow believes that there are other high priority routing entries that =
it<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>must entertain, th=
us evicting existing ones. During such eviction the common<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>ancestor node could make use of the s=
tored path sequence and initiate a DCO.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space=
">=C2=A0</span><br>DCO can fully support this in current form. Do you think=
 this use-case makes<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>=
sense? We introduced &#39;I&#39; bit especially so that target is in full c=
ontrol of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>its own inv=
alidation. With such change we loosen up that part.<span class=3D"Apple-con=
verted-space">=C2=A0</span></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>Hmm=E2=
=80=A6I initially thought that this case would be a vulnerability. :-(</p><=
p>Are there cases that you can come up with where those other =E2=80=9Chigh=
 priority routing entries=E2=80=9D would have to be invalidated and that th=
ey wouldn=E2=80=99t just be preferred normally??=C2=A0 It is really up to t=
he WG to determine if that is an use case that makes sense=E2=80=A6.=C2=A0<=
/p><p>Either way, the vulnerability still exists.</p><p><br></p><p>...</p><=
div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:=
Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;f=
ont-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;te=
xt-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div><div>498 =
4.4.1. Dependent Nodes invalidation<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span><br><br>500 Current RPL [RFC6550] does not provide a mechanism=
 for route<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>501 invali=
dation for dependent nodes. This document allows the dependent<span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>502 nodes invalidation. Depende=
nt nodes will generate their respective<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space=
">=C2=A0</span><br>503 DAOs to update their paths, and the previous route i=
nvalidation for<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>504 t=
hose nodes should work in the similar manner described for switching<span c=
lass=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>505 node. The dependent nod=
e may set the I-bit in the transit<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=
=A0</span><br>506 information option as part of regular DAO so as to reques=
t<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>507 invalidation of=
 previous route from the common ancestor node.<span class=3D"Apple-converte=
d-space">=C2=A0</span><br><br>[major] This part is underspecified. How do t=
he dependent nodes know of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</spa=
n><br>the switch? Is A (Figure 1) the common ancestor node mentioned above?=
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br><br>I found the same=
 question being asked during WGLC, and the answer seems to<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>be: &quot;the dependent nodes will al=
ways set the I-flag&quot;. Is that my correct<span class=3D"Apple-converted=
-space">=C2=A0</span><br>interpretation? The behavior needs to be reflected=
 in the specification.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><b=
r><br><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/LejLNET8Hk92wPW=
U3Xi6OaxCujg">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/LejLNET8Hk92wPWU3X=
i6OaxCujg</a><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br><br>[RJ=
] I have added a para to describe this more. Please check if it makes sense=
.</div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>If the dependent node always sets=
 the I bit, wouldn=E2=80=99t that result in constant invalidation (unless n=
o route existed before)?=C2=A0 IOW, it seems like the setting of the I bit =
has to be conditional.=C2=A0 The mail archive talks about the DTSN incremen=
ting =E2=80=94 I=E2=80=99m assuming this will happen then the parent switch=
es to a different parent=E2=80=A6is that true?=C2=A0 If so, then I think th=
at this piece of text still needs some work.</p><p>[nit] The I bit is somet=
imes called the I flag=E2=80=A6please be consistent.=C2=A0</p><div><div><br=
></div><div>...<br><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-cap=
s:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-ind=
ent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div=
><div>570 7. Security Considerations<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span><br><br>[major] This section mostly points at rfc6550 (which i=
s ok), but it doesn&#39;t<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span=
><br>say anything about vulnerabilities (if any) that this specification ma=
y be<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>introducing...or=
 why it doesn&#39;t. [See my related comment in =C2=A74.3.3.]<span class=3D=
"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br><br>I would like to see (perhaps a=
fter the current text) something along the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-sp=
ace">=C2=A0</span><br>lines of &quot;This document introduces the ability t=
o do abc. It doesn&#39;t<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>=
<br>introduce any new vulnerabilities becasue... OR ... These are the new<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>vulnerabilities and th=
is is how they can be mitigated...or why they are not<span class=3D"Apple-c=
onverted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>really of concern...&quot;<span class=3D"A=
pple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br><br>[RJ] Have added this text in the=
 beginning of the security considerations<span class=3D"Apple-converted-spa=
ce">=C2=A0</span><br>section. Also have updated the &quot;Unsecured&quot; m=
ode para, to say that the DCO and<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=
=A0</span><br>DCO-ACK MUST be link-layer encrypted if link-layer security i=
s been put to use.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></div>=
</div></span></blockquote></div><p>That is not what I read in the new text:=
 &quot;A DCO and DCO-ACK message which is not encrypted at link-layer MUST =
not be handled by the RPL layer.=C2=A0 Also all the DCO and DCO-ACK message=
s that are transmitted MUST be link-layer encrypted.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0I read =
this text as saying that the DCO/DCO-ACK MUST always be link-layer encrypte=
d=E2=80=A6<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>=
I couldn=E2=80=99t find that to be the same expectation as in rfc6550.</p><=
/div></div></div></div></div></body></html>

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Date: Tue, 07 May 2019 16:52:41 -0700
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Subject: [Roll] Last Call: <draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-10.txt> (Efficient Route Invalidation) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the Routing Over Low power and Lossy
networks WG (roll) to consider the following document: - 'Efficient Route
Invalidation'
  <draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-10.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-05-21. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of
the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   This document describes the problems associated with No-Path
   Destination Advertisement Object (NPDAO) messaging used in Routing
   Protocol for Low power and lossy networks (RPL) for route
   invalidation and signaling changes to improve route invalidation
   efficiency.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao/ballot/

The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D:

   https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2961/
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3063/






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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: roll <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 05:07:13 +0000
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Subject: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Hello ROLL,

During the review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-10, there was a point =
raised by Alvaro which we would like to bring to the WG.

The draft adds DCO msg which allows route invalidation by the common ancest=
or node. The DCO message is generated by the ancestor node in response to D=
AO with I-flag (invalidate previous route flag) set in context to the corre=
sponding target. The I-flag is used as a mechanism so that the target is in=
-charge of its own invalidation. Having said that, the ancestor node has al=
l the state information needed to generate the DCO __unilaterally__.

We would like to understand WG thoughts on "whether this unilateral invalid=
ation from ancestor can be allowed or we should strictly let the ancestor n=
ode generate DCO in response to DAO with I-flag set."

Am not quoting pros/cons of the approaches, because this might bias the thi=
nking and it would be nice to have different perspectives.

A diagram to aid understanding: https://github.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-=
invalidation/blob/master/unilateral-dco.md

Any feedback will be very useful and appreciated.

Thanks,
Rahul

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello ROLL,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">During the review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao=
-10, there was a point raised by Alvaro which we would like to bring to the=
 WG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft adds DCO msg which allows route invalidati=
on by the common ancestor node. The DCO message is generated by the ancesto=
r node in response to DAO with I-flag (invalidate previous route flag) set =
in context to the corresponding target.
 The I-flag is used as a mechanism so that the target is in-charge of its o=
wn invalidation. Having said that, the ancestor node has all the state info=
rmation needed to generate the DCO __unilaterally__.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We would like to understand WG thoughts on &#8220;<b=
>whether this</b>
<b>unilateral invalidation from ancestor can be allowed or we should strict=
ly let the ancestor node generate DCO in response to DAO with I-flag set</b=
>.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Am not quoting pros/cons of the approaches, because =
this might bias the thinking and it would be nice to have different perspec=
tives.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A diagram to aid understanding: <a href=3D"https://g=
ithub.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-invalidation/blob/master/unilateral-dco.m=
d">
https://github.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-invalidation/blob/master/unilate=
ral-dco.md</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any feedback will be very useful and appreciated.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rahul<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DE89061BLREML503MBXchi_--


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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Subject: Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Hello Rahul:

It is possible that node D in your picture sends a same DAO (same path seq)=
 via both B and C. An unsolicited DCO sent to upon the first DAO received b=
y B could collision with the DAO via C and create race conditions. E.g. a n=
ode destroys a route upon DCO seq 5 and recreates it right after when the D=
AO same seq 5 comes in. Packets in flight will be sent back with a flag in =
the RPI or destroyed. Not good.

Note: RPL has a datapath detection for broken routes so if it is effectivel=
y being used, the path via C would eventually go away based on the flag abo=
ve.

So I do not favor unsolicited DCOs, and if done, there should be a timer as=
sociated to it to make sure that no DAO comes via C. The duration of that t=
imer is hard to fathom...

All the best,

Pascal

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Rahul Arvind Jadhav
Sent: mercredi 8 mai 2019 07:07
To: roll <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node

Hello ROLL,

During the review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-10, there was a point =
raised by Alvaro which we would like to bring to the WG.

The draft adds DCO msg which allows route invalidation by the common ancest=
or node. The DCO message is generated by the ancestor node in response to D=
AO with I-flag (invalidate previous route flag) set in context to the corre=
sponding target. The I-flag is used as a mechanism so that the target is in=
-charge of its own invalidation. Having said that, the ancestor node has al=
l the state information needed to generate the DCO __unilaterally__.

We would like to understand WG thoughts on "whether this unilateral invalid=
ation from ancestor can be allowed or we should strictly let the ancestor n=
ode generate DCO in response to DAO with I-flag set."

Am not quoting pros/cons of the approaches, because this might bias the thi=
nking and it would be nice to have different perspectives.

A diagram to aid understanding: https://github.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-=
invalidation/blob/master/unilateral-dco.md

Any feedback will be very useful and appreciated.

Thanks,
Rahul

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Rahul:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It is possible that node D in your picture sends a s=
ame DAO (same path seq) via both B and C. An unsolicited DCO sent to upon t=
he first DAO received by B could collision with the DAO via C and create ra=
ce conditions. E.g. a node destroys
 a route upon DCO seq 5 and recreates it right after when the DAO same seq =
5 comes in. Packets in flight will be sent back with a flag in the RPI or d=
estroyed. Not good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note: RPL has a datapath detection for broken routes=
 so if it is effectively being used, the path via C would eventually go awa=
y based on the flag above.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I do not favor unsolicited DCOs, and if done, the=
re should be a timer associated to it to make sure that no DAO comes via C.=
 The duration of that timer is hard to fathom&#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All the best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Roll &lt;roll-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Rahul Arvind Jadhav<br>
<b>Sent:</b> mercredi 8 mai 2019 07:07<br>
<b>To:</b> roll &lt;roll@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node<o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello ROLL,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">During the review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao=
-10, there was a point raised by Alvaro which we would like to bring to the=
 WG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft adds DCO msg which allows route invalidati=
on by the common ancestor node. The DCO message is generated by the ancesto=
r node in response to DAO with I-flag (invalidate previous route flag) set =
in context to the corresponding target.
 The I-flag is used as a mechanism so that the target is in-charge of its o=
wn invalidation. Having said that, the ancestor node has all the state info=
rmation needed to generate the DCO __unilaterally__.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We would like to understand WG thoughts on &#8220;<b=
>whether this</b>
<b>unilateral invalidation from ancestor can be allowed or we should strict=
ly let the ancestor node generate DCO in response to DAO with I-flag set</b=
>.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Am not quoting pros/cons of the approaches, because =
this might bias the thinking and it would be nice to have different perspec=
tives.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A diagram to aid understanding: <a href=3D"https://g=
ithub.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-invalidation/blob/master/unilateral-dco.m=
d">
https://github.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-invalidation/blob/master/unilate=
ral-dco.md</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any feedback will be very useful and appreciated.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rahul<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Subject: Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Thanks Pascal for the feedback.

The race condition and the associated timer in case of multiple preferred p=
arents is a valid scenario. This scenario needs to be handled regardless of=
 unilateral DCO and is explained explicitly in the draft (Section 4.5.3).

Thanks,
Rahul

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthu=
bert)
Sent: 09 May 2019 17:09
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node

Hello Rahul:

It is possible that node D in your picture sends a same DAO (same path seq)=
 via both B and C. An unsolicited DCO sent to upon the first DAO received b=
y B could collision with the DAO via C and create race conditions. E.g. a n=
ode destroys a route upon DCO seq 5 and recreates it right after when the D=
AO same seq 5 comes in. Packets in flight will be sent back with a flag in =
the RPI or destroyed. Not good.

Note: RPL has a datapath detection for broken routes so if it is effectivel=
y being used, the path via C would eventually go away based on the flag abo=
ve.

So I do not favor unsolicited DCOs, and if done, there should be a timer as=
sociated to it to make sure that no DAO comes via C. The duration of that t=
imer is hard to fathom...

All the best,

Pascal

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Rahul Arvind Jadhav
Sent: mercredi 8 mai 2019 07:07
To: roll <roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ietf.org>>
Subject: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node

Hello ROLL,

During the review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-10, there was a point =
raised by Alvaro which we would like to bring to the WG.

The draft adds DCO msg which allows route invalidation by the common ancest=
or node. The DCO message is generated by the ancestor node in response to D=
AO with I-flag (invalidate previous route flag) set in context to the corre=
sponding target. The I-flag is used as a mechanism so that the target is in=
-charge of its own invalidation. Having said that, the ancestor node has al=
l the state information needed to generate the DCO __unilaterally__.

We would like to understand WG thoughts on "whether this unilateral invalid=
ation from ancestor can be allowed or we should strictly let the ancestor n=
ode generate DCO in response to DAO with I-flag set."

Am not quoting pros/cons of the approaches, because this might bias the thi=
nking and it would be nice to have different perspectives.

A diagram to aid understanding: https://github.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-=
invalidation/blob/master/unilateral-dco.md

Any feedback will be very useful and appreciated.

Thanks,
Rahul

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks Pascal for the =
feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The race condition and=
 the associated timer in case of multiple preferred parents is a valid scen=
ario. This scenario needs to be handled regardless of unilateral DCO and is=
 explained explicitly in the draft (Section
 4.5.3). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Rahul<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
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0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <b>=
On Behalf Of
</b>Pascal Thubert (pthubert)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 May 2019 17:09<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;roll@ietf.org&gt;<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node<o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Rahul:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It is possible that node D in your picture sends a s=
ame DAO (same path seq) via both B and C. An unsolicited DCO sent to upon t=
he first DAO received by B could collision with the DAO via C and create ra=
ce conditions. E.g. a node destroys
 a route upon DCO seq 5 and recreates it right after when the DAO same seq =
5 comes in. Packets in flight will be sent back with a flag in the RPI or d=
estroyed. Not good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note: RPL has a datapath detection for broken routes=
 so if it is effectively being used, the path via C would eventually go awa=
y based on the flag above.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I do not favor unsolicited DCOs, and if done, the=
re should be a timer associated to it to make sure that no DAO comes via C.=
 The duration of that timer is hard to fathom&#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All the best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Roll &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces=
@ietf.org">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rahul Arvind Jadhav<br>
<b>Sent:</b> mercredi 8 mai 2019 07:07<br>
<b>To:</b> roll &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node<o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello ROLL,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">During the review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao=
-10, there was a point raised by Alvaro which we would like to bring to the=
 WG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft adds DCO msg which allows route invalidati=
on by the common ancestor node. The DCO message is generated by the ancesto=
r node in response to DAO with I-flag (invalidate previous route flag) set =
in context to the corresponding target.
 The I-flag is used as a mechanism so that the target is in-charge of its o=
wn invalidation. Having said that, the ancestor node has all the state info=
rmation needed to generate the DCO __unilaterally__.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We would like to understand WG thoughts on &#8220;<b=
>whether this</b>
<b>unilateral invalidation from ancestor can be allowed or we should strict=
ly let the ancestor node generate DCO in response to DAO with I-flag set</b=
>.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Am not quoting pros/cons of the approaches, because =
this might bias the thinking and it would be nice to have different perspec=
tives.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A diagram to aid understanding: <a href=3D"https://g=
ithub.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-invalidation/blob/master/unilateral-dco.m=
d">
https://github.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-invalidation/blob/master/unilate=
ral-dco.md</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any feedback will be very useful and appreciated.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rahul<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 18:01:38 +0300
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Subject: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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Dear all,

This is a call for adoption of the draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
document.

The call starts today (13-05) and finalize on 27-05.

Please send your support/opposition with comments before deadline.

Thank you very much,

Ines and Peter

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear all,<br><div><br></div><div>This is a call for adopti=
on of the draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves document.</div><div><br></div><=
div>The call starts today (13-05) and finalize on 27-05.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Please send your support/opposition with comments before deadline.</=
div><div><br></div><div>Thank you very much,</div><div><br></div><div>Ines =
and Peter</div></div>

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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 05:01:17 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Hello ROLL,

Does RPL allow DAO to be sent unsolicited from a non-target node ? For e.g.=
, can a 6LR node on parent switching use the existing routing state to send=
 DAO on behalf of the childs in sub-dodag to update the routing states on n=
ew path ?

This topic came up during rpl-observations discussion in IETF102/103 and it=
 was discussed that it is possible. But I couldn't find any explicit statem=
ents in 6550 allowing this.

I am trying to relate unsolicited DCO proposition with this behavior to und=
erstand more.

Thanks,
Rahul


From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Arvind Jadhav
Sent: 09 May 2019 17:19
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node

Thanks Pascal for the feedback.

The race condition and the associated timer in case of multiple preferred p=
arents is a valid scenario. This scenario needs to be handled regardless of=
 unilateral DCO and is explained explicitly in the draft (Section 4.5.3).

Thanks,
Rahul

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthu=
bert)
Sent: 09 May 2019 17:09
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node

Hello Rahul:

It is possible that node D in your picture sends a same DAO (same path seq)=
 via both B and C. An unsolicited DCO sent to upon the first DAO received b=
y B could collision with the DAO via C and create race conditions. E.g. a n=
ode destroys a route upon DCO seq 5 and recreates it right after when the D=
AO same seq 5 comes in. Packets in flight will be sent back with a flag in =
the RPI or destroyed. Not good.

Note: RPL has a datapath detection for broken routes so if it is effectivel=
y being used, the path via C would eventually go away based on the flag abo=
ve.

So I do not favor unsolicited DCOs, and if done, there should be a timer as=
sociated to it to make sure that no DAO comes via C. The duration of that t=
imer is hard to fathom...

All the best,

Pascal

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Rahul Arvind Jadhav
Sent: mercredi 8 mai 2019 07:07
To: roll <roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ietf.org>>
Subject: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node

Hello ROLL,

During the review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-10, there was a point =
raised by Alvaro which we would like to bring to the WG.

The draft adds DCO msg which allows route invalidation by the common ancest=
or node. The DCO message is generated by the ancestor node in response to D=
AO with I-flag (invalidate previous route flag) set in context to the corre=
sponding target. The I-flag is used as a mechanism so that the target is in=
-charge of its own invalidation. Having said that, the ancestor node has al=
l the state information needed to generate the DCO __unilaterally__.

We would like to understand WG thoughts on "whether this unilateral invalid=
ation from ancestor can be allowed or we should strictly let the ancestor n=
ode generate DCO in response to DAO with I-flag set."

Am not quoting pros/cons of the approaches, because this might bias the thi=
nking and it would be nice to have different perspectives.

A diagram to aid understanding: https://github.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-=
invalidation/blob/master/unilateral-dco.md

Any feedback will be very useful and appreciated.

Thanks,
Rahul

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hello ROLL,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Does RPL allow DAO to =
be sent unsolicited from a non-target node ? For e.g., can a 6LR node on pa=
rent switching use the existing routing state to send DAO on behalf of the =
childs in sub-dodag to update the routing
 states on new path ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This topic came up dur=
ing rpl-observations discussion in IETF102/103 and it was discussed that it=
 is possible. But I couldn&#8217;t find any explicit statements in 6550 all=
owing this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I am trying to relate =
unsolicited DCO proposition with this behavior to understand more.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Rahul<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <b>=
On Behalf Of
</b>Rahul Arvind Jadhav<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 May 2019 17:19<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;roll@ietf.org&gt;<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node<o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks Pascal for the =
feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The race condition and=
 the associated timer in case of multiple preferred parents is a valid scen=
ario. This scenario needs to be handled regardless of unilateral DCO and is=
 explained explicitly in the draft (Section
 4.5.3). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Rahul<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Roll [<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pascal Thubert (pthubert)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 May 2019 17:09<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node<o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Rahul:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It is possible that node D in your picture sends a s=
ame DAO (same path seq) via both B and C. An unsolicited DCO sent to upon t=
he first DAO received by B could collision with the DAO via C and create ra=
ce conditions. E.g. a node destroys
 a route upon DCO seq 5 and recreates it right after when the DAO same seq =
5 comes in. Packets in flight will be sent back with a flag in the RPI or d=
estroyed. Not good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note: RPL has a datapath detection for broken routes=
 so if it is effectively being used, the path via C would eventually go awa=
y based on the flag above.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I do not favor unsolicited DCOs, and if done, the=
re should be a timer associated to it to make sure that no DAO comes via C.=
 The duration of that timer is hard to fathom&#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All the best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Roll &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces=
@ietf.org">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rahul Arvind Jadhav<br>
<b>Sent:</b> mercredi 8 mai 2019 07:07<br>
<b>To:</b> roll &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node<o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello ROLL,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">During the review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao=
-10, there was a point raised by Alvaro which we would like to bring to the=
 WG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft adds DCO msg which allows route invalidati=
on by the common ancestor node. The DCO message is generated by the ancesto=
r node in response to DAO with I-flag (invalidate previous route flag) set =
in context to the corresponding target.
 The I-flag is used as a mechanism so that the target is in-charge of its o=
wn invalidation. Having said that, the ancestor node has all the state info=
rmation needed to generate the DCO __unilaterally__.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We would like to understand WG thoughts on &#8220;<b=
>whether this</b>
<b>unilateral invalidation from ancestor can be allowed or we should strict=
ly let the ancestor node generate DCO in response to DAO with I-flag set</b=
>.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Am not quoting pros/cons of the approaches, because =
this might bias the thinking and it would be nice to have different perspec=
tives.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A diagram to aid understanding: <a href=3D"https://g=
ithub.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-invalidation/blob/master/unilateral-dco.m=
d">
https://github.com/roll-wg/efficient-route-invalidation/blob/master/unilate=
ral-dco.md</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any feedback will be very useful and appreciated.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rahul<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DEA1FBDBLREML503MBXchi_--


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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Subject: Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Subject: Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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From nobody Wed May 15 16:31:54 2019
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Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-26.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Using RPL Option Type, Routing Header for Source Routes and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation in the RPL Data Plane
        Authors         : Maria Ines Robles
                          Michael C. Richardson
                          Pascal Thubert
	Filename        : draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-26.txt
	Pages           : 54
	Date            : 2019-05-15

Abstract:
   This document looks at different data flows through LLN (Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) where RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) is used to establish routing.  The document
   enumerates the cases where RFC 6553 (RPL Option Type), RFC 6554
   (Routing Header for Source Routes) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation is
   required in data plane.  This analysis provides the basis on which to
   design efficient compression of these headers.  This document updates
   RFC 6553 adding a change to the RPL Option Type.  Additionally, this
   document updates RFC 6550 defining a flag in the DIO Configuration
   Option to indicate about this change and updates RFC8138 as well to
   consider the new Option Type when the RPL Option is decompressed.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-26
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-26

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-26


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: roll <roll@ietf.org>, roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao@ietf.org>
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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Subject: Re: [Roll] DCO Invalidation triggered from ancestor node
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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>, "Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks" <roll@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 00:08:39 +0300
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To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org,  Peter Van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>,  roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hello Roman,

Many Thanks for your review. We have submitted a new version with
corrections. Please find answers in-line.

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 11:24 PM Roman Danyliw via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: Discuss
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Per Section 11:
>    [RFC2473] suggests that tunnel entry and exit points can be secured,
>    via the "Use IPsec".  The suggested solution has all the problems
>    that [RFC5406] goes into.  In an LLN such a solution would degenerate
>    into every node having a tunnel with every other node.  It would
>    provide a small amount of origin address authentication at a very
>    high cost; doing BCP38 at every node (linking layer-3 addresses to
>    layer-2 addresses, and to already present layer-2 cryptographic
>    mechanisms) would be cheaper should RPL be run in an environment
>    where hostile nodes are likely to be a part of the LLN.
>
> ** I'm having trouble understanding what recommendation this text was
> making.
> The first sentence seems to suggest IPSec, the second sentence seems to
> discount that advice; and the third seems to suggest BCP38 as an
> alternative.
> Could you please clarify.
>
> ** Please be explicit on which challenges in RFC5406 are being cited (e.g=
.,
> which sections)
>

<author> we have clarified the text. =E2=80=9CUse IPsec=E2=80=9D is never a=
 useful
statement, which is the point of RFC5406. Using IPsec to secure these IPIP
tunnels would not work.


New Text: Whenever IPv6-in-IPv6 headers are being proposed, there is a
concern

  about creating security issues.  In the security section of

  [RFC2473 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2473>], it was suggested that
tunnel entry and exit points can be

  secured, via "Use IPsec".  This recommendation is not practical for

  RPL networks.  [RFC5406 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5406>] goes into
some detail on what additional

  details would be needed in order to "Use IPsec".  Use of ESP would

  prevent RFC8183 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8183> compression
(compression must occur before

  encryption), and RFC8183 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8183>
compression is lossy in a way that prevents

  use of AH.  These are minor issues.  The major issue is how to

  establish trust enough such that IKEv2 could be used.  This would

  require a system of certificates to be present in every single node,

  including any Internet nodes that might need to communicate with the

  LLN.  Thus, "Use IPsec" requires a global PKI in the general case.

  More significantly, the use of IPsec tunnels to protect the IPv6-in-

  IPv6 headers would in the general case scale with the square of the

  number of nodes.  This is a lot of resource for a constrained nodes

  on a constrained network.  In the end, the IPsec tunnels would be

  providing only BCP38 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp38>-like origin
authentication!  Just doing BCP38 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp38>

  origin filtering at the entry and exit of the LLN provides a similar

  level amount of security without all the scaling and trust problems

  of using IPsec as RFC2473 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2473>
suggested.  IPsec is not recommended.

</author>

>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> (1) Abstract.  Per =E2=80=9CAdditionally, this document updates RFC 6550 =
to
> indicate
> about this change =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, this sentence didn=E2=80=99t parse =
for me in explaining the
> relationship with RFC6550.
>


<author>Corrected to: Additionally, this document updates RFC 6550 defining
a flag

  in the DIO Configuration Option to indicate about this change.

</author>

>
> (2) Section 1.  Typo.  s/implementors/implementers/
>

 <author> fixed </author>

>
> (3) Section 2.  Editorial Nit.  s/header refers to:/header refers to/
>

<author> fixed </author>

>
> (4) Section 3.  A few editorial comments on how these updates are
> presented:
>
> ** Inconsistent spacing in Section 3 title:
> s/Updates to RFC6553, RFC6550 and RFC 8138/
> Updates to RFC6553, RFC6550 and RFC8138/
>

<author> fixed </author>

>
> ** Section 3.1 and Section 3.3 open with the motivation for the change.
> Section 3.2 does not.
>
> <author> Added in the text:

<t> This modification is required to be able to decompress the RPL RPI
option with the new value (0x23).</t></author>



> ** Section 3.3 title describes the proposed change.  Section 3.1 and 3.2
> simple
> state =E2=80=9CUpdates to RFCxxx=E2=80=9D
>

<author> Corrected: <section title=3D"Updates to RFC6553: Indicating the ne=
w
RPI value.">

<section title=3D"Updates to RFC8138: Indicating the way to decompress with
the new RPI value."></author>



>
> ** Section 3.1 =E2=80=93 3 titles include a space in the RFC names (i.e.,
> RFC-space-number).  The Section 3 title does not.
>

<author>Corrected: all together without space-RFC6553-

</author


> (5) Section 3.1.  Editorial Nit.
>
> ** s/[RFC6553] states as shown below/[RFC6553] states as shown in Figure =
1/
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> ** Recommend citing the relevant page and section number from RFC6553 too=
.
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> (6) Section 3.2.  Please use more explicit language to describe how this
> section updates RFC8138.
>

<author>fixed </author>

>
> (7) Section 3.2.  Figure 3 is depicted in this section but not referenced
> in
> the text.
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> (8) Section 4.  Typo.  s/A RPL Stack is shown in Figure 5/A RPL Stack is
> shown
> in Figure 6/
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> (9) Section 5.  Editorial Nit. s/these nodes are/These nodes are/
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> (10) Section 5.  A few editorial recommendations for this paragraph:
>
> The uses cases describe the communication between RPL-aware-nodes,
>    with the root (6LBR), and with Internet.  This document also describe
>    the communication between nodes acting as leaves that do not
>    understand RPL, but are part of the LLN.  these  nodes are named as
>    not-RPL-aware-leaf, mentioned previously.  (e.g.  Section 6.1.4 Flow
>    from not-RPL-aware-leaf to root) This  document describes also how is
>    the communication inside of the LLN when it has the final destination
>   addressed outside of the LLN e.g. with destination to Internet.
>    (e.g.  Section 6.2.3 Flow from not-RPL-aware-leaf to Internet)
> ** s/these nodes are/These nodes are/
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> ** The sentence =E2=80=9CThis document describes also how =E2=80=A6=E2=80=
=9D doesn=E2=80=99t parse.
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> ** The use of =E2=80=9C(e.g. =E2=80=A6)=E2=80=9D as a standalone sentence=
 doesn=E2=80=99t parse.
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> (11) Section 5.  Per =E2=80=9CThere is some possible security risk when t=
he RPI
> information is released on the internet =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, I recommend r=
eframing this text
> around the fact that the leak of RPI info would not present an issue. As
> is,
> the impact reads ambiguously to me.
>

<author> Corrected to:=E2=80=9DNo clear attack has been described when the =
RPI
information is released to the Internet. At worst, it is clear that the RPI
option would waste some network bandwidth when it escapes.  This is traded
off against the savings in the LLN by not having to encapsulate the packet
in order to remove the artifact =E2=80=9D

</author>



>
> (12) Section 6.  The meaning of =E2=80=9Croot=E2=80=9D in Figure 7 is not=
 explained in the
> text
> above it.
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> (13) Section 6.1.4.  Typo. s/encapsuladed/encapsulated/
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> (14) Section 9.  Editorial Nit.
> s/ During bootstrapping the node get the DIO with the information of RPL
> Option
> Type/ During bootstrapping the node gets the DIO with the information of
> RPL
> Option Type/
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> (15) Section 11.  Make BCP38 a reference (i.e., [BCP38])
>

<author>fixed </author>

Many Thanks again,

Ines, Michael and Pascal

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hello Roman,<div><br></div><div>Many Than=
ks for your review. We have submitted a new version with corrections. Pleas=
e find answers in-line.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 11:24 PM Roman Danyli=
w via Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply@ietf.org<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">R=
oman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for<br>
draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: Discuss<br>
<br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<=
br>
DISCUSS:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Per Section 11:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC2473] suggests that tunnel entry and exit points can be se=
cured,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0via the &quot;Use IPsec&quot;.=C2=A0 The suggested solution ha=
s all the problems<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that [RFC5406] goes into.=C2=A0 In an LLN such a solution woul=
d degenerate<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0into every node having a tunnel with every other node.=C2=A0 I=
t would<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provide a small amount of origin address authentication at a v=
ery<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0high cost; doing BCP38 at every node (linking layer-3 addresse=
s to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0layer-2 addresses, and to already present layer-2 cryptographi=
c<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms) would be cheaper should RPL be run in an environme=
nt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0where hostile nodes are likely to be a part of the LLN.<br>
<br>
** I&#39;m having trouble understanding what recommendation this text was m=
aking. <br>
The first sentence seems to suggest IPSec, the second sentence seems to<br>
discount that advice; and the third seems to suggest BCP38 as an alternativ=
e. <br>
Could you please clarify.<br>
<br>
** Please be explicit on which challenges in RFC5406 are being cited (e.g.,=
<br>
which sections)<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; we have clarified the text. =E2=80=9CUse IPsec=
=E2=80=9D is never a useful statement, which is the point of RFC5406. Using=
 IPsec to secure these IPIP tunnels would not work.</span></div><div><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size=
:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap"><br></span></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-4b7=
6db3d-7fff-e52a-fb93-15f6758c6347"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38=
;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:norma=
l;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wr=
ap">New Text: </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e=
ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Whenever IPv=
6-in-IPv6 headers are being proposed, there is a concern</span></p><p dir=
=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0=
,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0about creating security is=
sues.=C2=A0 In the security section of</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"li=
ne-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-n=
umeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0[</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/rfc2473" style=3D"text-decoration-line:none"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-varia=
nt-east-asian:normal;text-decoration-line:underline;vertical-align:baseline=
;white-space:pre-wrap">RFC2473</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:n=
ormal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pr=
e-wrap">], it was suggested that tunnel entry and exit points can be</span>=
</p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0=
pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color=
:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0secured, via &qu=
ot;Use IPsec&quot;.=C2=A0 This recommendation is not practical for</span></=
p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:r=
gb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;ve=
rtical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0RPL networks. =C2=
=A0[</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5406" style=3D"text-de=
coration-line:none"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-=
decoration-line:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">RFC=
5406</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-as=
ian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">] goes into some d=
etail on what additional</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38=
;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;=
font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap=
"> =C2=A0=C2=A0details would be needed in order to &quot;Use IPsec&quot;.=
=C2=A0 Use of ESP would</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;=
margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;f=
ont-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0prevent</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8183"=
 style=3D"text-decoration-line:none"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:norma=
l;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wr=
ap"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quo=
t;;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decorati=
on-line:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">RFC8183</sp=
an></a><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;co=
lor:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:norm=
al;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> compression (compression =
must occur before</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin=
-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-va=
riant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=
=A0=C2=A0encryption), and</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8=
183" style=3D"text-decoration-line:none"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:n=
ormal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pr=
e-wrap"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-deco=
ration-line:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">RFC8183=
</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:=
normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> compression is lossy =
in a way that prevents</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;m=
argin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;fo=
nt-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">=
 =C2=A0=C2=A0use of AH.=C2=A0 These are minor issues.=C2=A0 The major issue=
 is how to</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0p=
t;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e=
ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0establish trust enough such that IKEv2 could be used.=C2=A0 This would</=
span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bot=
tom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:no=
rmal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0require a s=
ystem of certificates to be present in every single node,</span></p><p dir=
=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0=
,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0including any Internet nod=
es that might need to communicate with the</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=
=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-var=
iant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;=
white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0LLN.=C2=A0 Thus, &quot;Use IPsec&quot; r=
equires a global PKI in the general case.</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" styl=
e=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-va=
riant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline=
;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0More significantly, the use of IPsec tu=
nnels to protect the IPv6-in-</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height=
:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:no=
rmal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre=
-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0IPv6 headers would in the general case scale with the s=
quare of the</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:=
0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant=
-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0number of nodes.=C2=A0 This is a lot of resource for a constrained nodes=
</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-b=
ottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:=
normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0on a cons=
trained network.=C2=A0 In the end, the IPsec tunnels would be</span></p><p =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(25=
5,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertica=
l-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0providing only</span><a=
 href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp38" style=3D"text-decoration-line:n=
one"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal=
;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-variant-numeric:normal;f=
ont-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration-line:underline;vertical-align=
:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">BCP38</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-nu=
meric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap">-like origin authentication!=C2=A0 Just doing</span><a href=
=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp38" style=3D"text-decoration-line:none">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb=
(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:=
10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-v=
ariant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration-line:underline;vertical-align:base=
line;white-space:pre-wrap">BCP38</span></a></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line=
-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-num=
eric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-sp=
ace:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0origin filtering at the entry and exit of the LL=
N provides a similar</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;mar=
gin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font=
-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0level amount of security without all the scaling and trust prob=
lems</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;marg=
in-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-as=
ian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0of us=
ing IPsec as</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2473" style=3D=
"text-decoration-line:none"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-va=
riant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-v=
ariant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration-line:u=
nderline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">RFC2473</span></a><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(2=
55,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertic=
al-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> suggested.=C2=A0 IPsec is not reco=
mmended.</span></p></span></div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
(1) Abstract.=C2=A0 Per =E2=80=9CAdditionally, this document updates RFC 65=
50 to indicate<br>
about this change =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, this sentence didn=E2=80=99t parse fo=
r me in explaining the<br>
relationship with RFC6550.<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><span id=3D"gma=
il-docs-internal-guid-f9d67482-7fff-898d-083d-3ffe5c202822"><p dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);f=
ont-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;Corrected to: Additionally, this=
 document updates RFC 6550 </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;f=
ont-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"=
>defining a flag</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.4568;margi=
n-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-v=
ariant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=
=A0=C2=A0in the DIO Configuration Option </span><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-=
numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white=
-space:pre-wrap">to indicate about this change.</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" st=
yle=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);fon=
t-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:base=
line;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</p></span><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(2) Section 1.=C2=A0 Typo.=C2=A0 s/implementors/implementers/<br></blockquo=
te><div>=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;auth=
or&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(3) Section 2.=C2=A0 Editorial Nit.=C2=A0 s/header refers to:/header refers=
 to/<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255=
);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap=
">&lt;author&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(4) Section 3.=C2=A0 A few editorial comments on how these updates are pres=
ented:<br>
<br>
** Inconsistent spacing in Section 3 title:<br>
s/Updates to RFC6553, RFC6550 and RFC 8138/<br>
Updates to RFC6553, RFC6550 and RFC8138/<br></blockquote><div><br></div><di=
v><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;f=
ont-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;<=
/span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
** Section 3.1 and Section 3.3 open with the motivation for the change. <br=
>
Section 3.2 does not.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-2f0d9814-7fff-80=
c6-6d32-67d54037ad1c"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0=
pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-varian=
t-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;autho=
r&gt; Added in the text: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:=
0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-varia=
nt-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;t&gt=
; This modification is required to be able to decompress the RPL RPI option=
 with the new value (0x23).&lt;/t&gt;&lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br c=
lass=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
** Section 3.3 title describes the proposed change.=C2=A0 Section 3.1 and 3=
.2 simple<br>
state =E2=80=9CUpdates to RFCxxx=E2=80=9D<br></blockquote><div><br></div><s=
pan id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-0ea78f3f-7fff-adc5-342f-3f511c2a9a12"><p=
 dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb=
(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; Corrected: &lt;sec=
tion title=3D&quot;Updates to RFC6553: Indicating the new RPI value.&quot;&=
gt;</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margi=
n-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-a=
sian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;section title=
=3D&quot;Updates to RFC8138: Indicating the way to decompress with the new =
RPI value.&quot;&gt;&lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-App=
le-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">
<br>
** Section 3.1 =E2=80=93 3 titles include a space in the RFC names (i.e.,<b=
r>
RFC-space-number).=C2=A0 The Section 3 title does not.<br></blockquote><div=
><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-e1bf5ae2-7fff-dd96-70f3-abc=
a8eb382c3"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-b=
ottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asia=
n:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;Correc=
ted: all together without space-RFC6553-</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"=
line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-varia=
nt-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-=
interchange-newline"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
(5) Section 3.1.=C2=A0 Editorial Nit.<br>
<br>
** s/[RFC6553] states as shown below/[RFC6553] states as shown in Figure 1/=
<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fix=
ed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex">
<br>
** Recommend citing the relevant page and section number from RFC6553 too.<=
br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;=
Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixe=
d &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
<br>
(6) Section 3.2.=C2=A0 Please use more explicit language to describe how th=
is<br>
section updates RFC8138.<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><div><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5=
pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(7) Section 3.2.=C2=A0 Figure 3 is depicted in this section but not referen=
ced in<br>
the text.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;auth=
or&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(8) Section 4.=C2=A0 Typo.=C2=A0 s/A RPL Stack is shown in Figure 5/A RPL S=
tack is shown<br>
in Figure 6/<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;a=
uthor&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(9) Section 5.=C2=A0 Editorial Nit. s/these nodes are/These nodes are/<br><=
/blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &l=
t;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex">
<br>
(10) Section 5.=C2=A0 A few editorial recommendations for this paragraph:<b=
r>
<br>
The uses cases describe the communication between RPL-aware-nodes,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with the root (6LBR), and with Internet.=C2=A0 This document a=
lso describe<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the communication between nodes acting as leaves that do not<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0understand RPL, but are part of the LLN.=C2=A0 these=C2=A0 nod=
es are named as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not-RPL-aware-leaf, mentioned previously.=C2=A0 (e.g.=C2=A0 Se=
ction 6.1.4 Flow<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0from not-RPL-aware-leaf to root) This=C2=A0 document describes=
 also how is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the communication inside of the LLN when it has the final dest=
ination<br>
=C2=A0 addressed outside of the LLN e.g. with destination to Internet.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(e.g.=C2=A0 Section 6.2.3 Flow from not-RPL-aware-leaf to Inte=
rnet)<br>
** s/these nodes are/These nodes are/<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
** The sentence =E2=80=9CThis document describes also how =E2=80=A6=E2=80=
=9D doesn=E2=80=99t parse.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(25=
5,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:p=
re-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
** The use of =E2=80=9C(e.g. =E2=80=A6)=E2=80=9D as a standalone sentence d=
oesn=E2=80=99t parse.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,2=
55);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wr=
ap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(11) Section 5.=C2=A0 Per =E2=80=9CThere is some possible security risk whe=
n the RPI<br>
information is released on the internet =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, I recommend ref=
raming this text<br>
around the fact that the leak of RPI info would not present an issue. As is=
,<br>
the impact reads ambiguously to me.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=
=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-e3469858-7fff-d876-de30-2fe4b87e3a97"><p dir=
=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255=
,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; </span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);fon=
t-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:base=
line;white-space:pre-wrap">Corrected to:=E2=80=9DNo clear attack has been d=
escribed when the RPI information is released to the Internet. At worst, it=
 is clear that the RPI option would waste some network bandwidth when it es=
capes.=C2=A0 This is traded off against the savings in the LLN by not havin=
g to encapsulate the packet in order to remove the artifact =E2=80=9D</span=
></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:=
0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;co=
lor:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:norm=
al;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span></p>=
</span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(12) Section 6.=C2=A0 The meaning of =E2=80=9Croot=E2=80=9D in Figure 7 is =
not explained in the text<br>
above it.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;auth=
or&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(13) Section 6.1.4.=C2=A0 Typo. s/encapsuladed/encapsulated/<br></blockquot=
e><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/author&=
gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
<br>
(14) Section 9.=C2=A0 Editorial Nit.<br>
s/ During bootstrapping the node get the DIO with the information of RPL Op=
tion<br>
Type/ During bootstrapping the node gets the DIO with the information of RP=
L<br>
Option Type/<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;a=
uthor&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
(15) Section 11.=C2=A0 Make BCP38 a reference (i.e., [BCP38])<br></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fi=
xed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Many =
Thanks again,</div><div><br></div><div>Ines, Michael and Pascal=C2=A0</div>=
</div></div>

--00000000000042f1ea058907acbd--


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Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-27.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Using RPL Option Type, Routing Header for Source Routes and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation in the RPL Data Plane
        Authors         : Maria Ines Robles
                          Michael C. Richardson
                          Pascal Thubert
	Filename        : draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-27.txt
	Pages           : 54
	Date            : 2019-05-16

Abstract:
   This document looks at different data flows through LLN (Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) where RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) is used to establish routing.  The document
   enumerates the cases where RFC 6553 (RPL Option Type), RFC 6554
   (Routing Header for Source Routes) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation is
   required in data plane.  This analysis provides the basis on which to
   design efficient compression of these headers.  This document updates
   RFC 6553 adding a change to the RPL Option Type.  Additionally, this
   document updates RFC 6550 defining a flag in the DIO Configuration
   Option to indicate about this change and updates RFC8138 as well to
   consider the new Option Type when the RPL Option is decompressed.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-27
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-27

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-27


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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--000000000000179372058909a468
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Hi =C3=89ric,

Many thanks for your review. We have submitted a new document with
corrections. Please find answers in-line below.

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 9:13 AM =C3=89ric Vyncke via Datatracker <noreply@ie=
tf.org>
wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The document is interesting and is about an interesting twist of behavior
> in
> the light of RFC 8200 new behavior with respect to Hop-by-hop extension
> header.
>
> But, I am balloting a DISCUSS for two reasons:
>
> 1) in section 3.1,  I am failing to understand the link between RFC8200 H=
bH
> behavior and why the RPI code needs to be changed to 0x23.  =3D> a clear
> explanation is required on why the option 0x23 is linked to RFC 8200: I
> fail to
> understand the authors' logic. At first sight, with the new RFC8200 HbH
> handling, there is no need to change the RPI code from 0x63 as most route=
rs
> will ignore HbH anyway.
>

<author> New text was added in this section for clarifications purposes
</author>

>
> 2) the document deserves a better text as there are too many nits,
> unexpanded
> acronyms, ... the reader has hard time to understand the document.
>

<author> Nits and tables were fixed </author>



>
> Again, the content is useful but need some more work.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Comments
> --------
>
> C1) Section 1, having a date or short description of the interim meeting
> could
> be useful here.
>
<author> that text was removed, new text was added

New Text: The ROLL WG analysized how [RFC2460
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2460>] rules apply to storing and non-

   storing use of RPL.  The result was 24 data plane use cases.  They
   are exhaustively outlined here in order to be completely unambiguous.
   During the processing of this document, new rules were published as
   [RFC8200 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8200>], and this document
was updated to reflect the normative
   changes in that document.

</author>

>
> C2) Section 2, the term "Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers" is confusing at
> first
> reading, what about "Link IPv6-in-IPv6 header" ? or "Single link
> IPv6-in-IPv6
> header" ? Hop-by-hop has a specific meaning in IPv6. This term is not als=
o
> used
> consistenly in the document.
>

<author> changed to Hop-by-hop re-encapsulation </author>

>
> C3) section 3.2 how does a network node would understand / learn that it
> is in
> "0x23 mode" ? It should provide a hint to section 3.3 or swap section 3.2
> and
> 3.3 to make the task easier for the reader.
>

<author> sections were swapped </author>

>
> C4) section 3.3 if the decompression is also to 0x23 or 0x63, then what i=
s
> the
> compressor behavior when receiving the other code?
>
<author> A node compress the RPL RPI option type that is currently active
</author>

>
> C5) the introduction to RPL in section 4 after the topology is nice and
> concise
> but it is either too late in the document or useless (I prefer the former=
,
> for
> example in section 2).
>
<author> fixed </author>

>
> C6) the code 0x23 is assumed everywhere but AFAIK there is no guarantee
> that
> IANA will use this code (even if this is the logical choice)
>
<author> we got early allocation </author>

>
> C7) it is assumed that the Internet has moved to RFC8200 and does not dro=
p
> packets with HbH... "will not be discarded" I would prefer to have a
> disclaimer
> on the current sad state of the Internet
>
> <author>Prior to this document, packets would be dropped.  Someone who
wants to push LLN traffic across the Internet already had to deal with
either configuring RPI to be accepted. Now, they can do that, or deploy
RFC8200. <author>


> C8) section 5, while I am not an expert in RPL, I wonder whether the
> sentence
> "there can be no loops by construction" is true even in transient states =
?
>

<author> loops are detected by RPI header</author>

>
> C9) section 6, is there any reason why the 'must' and 'root' values are n=
ot
> specified while 'hop' and others are ?
>

<author>clarification added</author>

>
> C10) Section 6.1.1 title is "SM: Example of Flow from RPL-aware-leaf to
> root"
> while SM has NOT been specified only RPL-SM.
>

<author>fixed</author>

>
> C11) Section 7, AFAIK RPL has been designed to be confined in one domain,
> if I
> am not mistaken, then extending RPL to work over the Internet would requi=
re
> some considerations early in this document (even if IPv6-in-IPv6 should
> clear
> the security issues of RH3 as discussed in the security section).
>

<author>RPL can not work across the Internet, it is a routing protocol, and
requires adjacencies. Connecting two networks via IP packets is just
classic =E2=80=9CInter=E2=80=9Dnet.  </author>

>
> C12) the 2nd paragraph of section 9 is probably useless as it is a snapsh=
ot
> taken in 2018/2019 which may not be the case anymore in a couple of years
>

<author> paragraph deleted</author>

>
> Nits
> ----
>
> N1) in section 1, this is a unexpected abbreviation < "RPL option" (RPI) =
>
>

<author>fixed</author>

>
> N2) in section 2, another unexpected abbreviation < RPL-aware-leaf (Raf) =
>
>

 <author> we think that it is a good abbreviation to indicate about leaf,
take the "f" instead of the l  <author>

>
> N3) section 3.1, inconsistent use of quotes around 01 and 1 in the same
> section
>

<author> could you please clarify, we dont understand what is wrong with
that. </author>

>
> N4) section 4, acronyms such 6LR are here explained while section 2
> referred to
> an external document... perhaps worth augmenting section 2 and removing t=
he
> description in section 4 ?
>

 <author> fixed </author>

>
> N5) section 4, s/in non-storing (RPL-NSM)/in non-storing mode (RPL-NSM)/
>
 <author> fixed </author>

>
> N6) section 5 does not use the previously introduced abbreviations... thi=
s
> I-D
> looks like a patchwork (different authors -- and I made multiple times th=
e
> same
> 'mistake' ;-) )
>

 <author> fixed </author>

>
> N7) section 5 s/Extensions may not be added/Extensions Headers may not be
> added/
>

 <author> fixed </author>

>
> N8) section 5 repeat the use of 01 in the option and its explanation =3D>
> remove
> this part
>


<author> However, unlike [RFC6553], the Hop-by-Hop Option Header used for
the

  RPI artifact has the first two bits set to '00'.  This means that the

  RPI artifact will be ignored when received by a host or router that

  does not understand that option ( Section 4.2 [RFC8200]).

     =E2=87=92 is it this part you want us to remove? </author>



> N9) section 5 s/to add to remove/to add and remove/ ?
>
 <author> fixed </author>

>
> N10) section 6, s/It indicate/It indicates/
>
 <author> fixed </author>

>
> N11) section 6, s/hop by hop/hop-by-hop/
>
 <author> fixed </author>

Many Thanks again,

Ines, Michael and Pascal

--000000000000179372058909a468
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi=C2=A0=C3=89ric,<div><br></div><div>Man=
y thanks for your review. We have submitted a new document with corrections=
. Please find answers in-line below.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 9:13 AM =
=C3=89ric Vyncke via Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">------------------------------------------=
----------------------------<br>
DISCUSS:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
The document is interesting and is about an interesting twist of behavior i=
n<br>
the light of RFC 8200 new behavior with respect to Hop-by-hop extension hea=
der.<br>
<br>
But, I am balloting a DISCUSS for two reasons:<br>
<br>
1) in section 3.1,=C2=A0 I am failing to understand the link between RFC820=
0 HbH<br>
behavior and why the RPI code needs to be changed to 0x23.=C2=A0 =3D&gt; a =
clear<br>
explanation is required on why the option 0x23 is linked to RFC 8200: I fai=
l to<br>
understand the authors&#39; logic. At first sight, with the new RFC8200 HbH=
<br>
handling, there is no need to change the RPI code from 0x63 as most routers=
<br>
will ignore HbH anyway.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;w=
hite-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; New text was added in this section for =
clarifications purposes &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
2) the document deserves a better text as there are too many nits, unexpand=
ed<br>
acronyms, ... the reader has hard time to understand the document.<br></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"m_8608519737437036512gmail-docs-internal=
-guid-5d9748c0-7fff-499e-b5fe-16859e77625a"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-he=
ight:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-nume=
ric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:transpare=
nt;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-alig=
n:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Nits and tables were fixed </span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0=
,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br cl=
ass=3D"m_8608519737437036512gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Again, the content is useful but need some more work.<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Comments<br>
--------<br>
<br>
C1) Section 1, having a date or short description of the interim meeting co=
uld<br>
be useful here.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&l=
t;author&gt;  that text was removed, new text was added  </span></div><div>=
<span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;fon=
t-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;whi=
te-space:pre-wrap">New Text: </span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-si=
ze:13.3333px">The ROLL WG analysized how [</span><a href=3D"https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/rfc2460" title=3D"&quot;Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Sp=
ecification&quot;" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px" target=3D"_blank">RFC2460<=
/a><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">] rules apply to st=
oring and non-</span></div><pre class=3D"m_8608519737437036512gmail-newpage=
" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-befor=
e:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">   storing use of RPL.  The result was 24 data pla=
ne use cases.  They
   are exhaustively outlined here in order to be completely unambiguous.
   During the processing of this document, new rules were published as
   [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8200" title=3D"&quot;Internet=
 Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC8200<=
/a>], and this document was updated to reflect the normative
   changes in that document.</pre><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">=
&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
<br>
C2) Section 2, the term &quot;Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers&quot; is conf=
using at first<br>
reading, what about &quot;Link IPv6-in-IPv6 header&quot; ? or &quot;Single =
link IPv6-in-IPv6<br>
header&quot; ? Hop-by-hop has a specific meaning in IPv6. This term is not =
also used<br>
consistenly in the document.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span styl=
e=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:1=
0.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-ali=
gn:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; changed to </span><span st=
yle=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-ali=
gn:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Hop-by-hop re-encapsulation </span><span =
style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
C3) section 3.2 how does a network node would understand / learn that it is=
 in<br>
&quot;0x23 mode&quot; ? It should provide a hint to section 3.3 or swap sec=
tion 3.2 and<br>
3.3 to make the task easier for the reader.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div><span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:nor=
mal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,25=
5);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; sections we=
re swapped</span><span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-ea=
st-asian:normal;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rg=
b(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span st=
yle=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
C4) section 3.3 if the decompression is also to 0x23 or 0x63, then what is =
the<br>
compressor behavior when receiving the other code?<br></blockquote><div><sp=
an style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);verti=
cal-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; </span><span style=
=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:10=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:=
baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">A node compress the RPL RPI option type that=
 is currently active </span><span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font=
-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&q=
uot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt=
;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex">
<br>
C5) the introduction to RPL in section 4 after the topology is nice and con=
cise<br>
but it is either too late in the document or useless (I prefer the former, =
for<br>
example in section 2).<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"font-variant-num=
eric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed</span><span style=3D"font-variant-numeric=
:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre=
-wrap"> </span><span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east=
-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rg=
b(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;<=
/span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
C6) the code 0x23 is assumed everywhere but AFAIK there is no guarantee tha=
t<br>
IANA will use this code (even if this is the logical choice)<br></blockquot=
e><div><span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:n=
ormal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,=
255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; we got ea=
rly allocation</span><span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-varian=
t-east-asian:normal;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><spa=
n style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-=
size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertic=
al-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
C7) it is assumed that the Internet has moved to RFC8200 and does not drop<=
br>
packets with HbH... &quot;will not be discarded&quot; I would prefer to hav=
e a disclaimer<br>
on the current sad state of the Internet<br>
<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;</spa=
n><span id=3D"m_8608519737437036512gmail-docs-internal-guid-dc0a6c54-7fff-e=
b3e-a23e-aaf2eeaad08d"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-=
numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white=
-space:pre-wrap">Prior to this document, packets would be dropped.=C2=A0 So=
meone who wants to push LLN traffic across the Internet already had to deal=
 with either configuring RPI to be accepted. Now, they can do that, or depl=
oy RFC8200. </span></span><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&=
quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;<=
/span><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">
C8) section 5, while I am not an expert in RPL, I wonder whether the senten=
ce<br>
&quot;there can be no loops by construction&quot; is true even in transient=
 states ?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,=
0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-w=
rap">&lt;author&gt; </span><span style=3D"background-color:transparent;colo=
r:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white=
-space:pre-wrap">loops are detected by RPI header</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
C9) section 6, is there any reason why the &#39;must&#39; and &#39;root&#39=
; values are not<br>
specified while &#39;hop&#39; and others are ?<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0<=
/div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;clarification add=
ed</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
C10) Section 6.1.1 title is &quot;SM: Example of Flow from RPL-aware-leaf t=
o root&quot;<br>
while SM has NOT been specified only RPL-SM.<br></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quo=
t;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14=
px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid r=
gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
C11) Section 7, AFAIK RPL has been designed to be confined in one domain, i=
f I<br>
am not mistaken, then extending RPL to work over the Internet would require=
<br>
some considerations early in this document (even if IPv6-in-IPv6 should cle=
ar<br>
the security issues of RH3 as discussed in the security section).<br></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&g=
t;</span><span style=3D"background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">RPL c=
an not work across the Internet, it is a routing protocol, and requires adj=
acencies. Connecting two networks via IP packets is just classic =E2=80=9CI=
nter=E2=80=9Dnet.</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/autho=
r&gt;</span></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
C12) the 2nd paragraph of section 9 is probably useless as it is a snapshot=
<br>
taken in 2018/2019 which may not be the case anymore in a couple of years<b=
r></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;a=
uthor&gt;</span> <font color=3D"#ff00ff" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=
=3D"font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">paragraph deleted&lt;/author&gt;</=
span></font>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Nits<br>
----<br>
<br>
N1) in section 1, this is a unexpected abbreviation &lt; &quot;RPL option&q=
uot; (RPI) &gt;<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><div><span style=3D"color:=
rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&l=
t;/author&gt;</span><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex">
<br>
N2) in section 2, another unexpected abbreviation &lt; RPL-aware-leaf (Raf)=
 &gt;<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(25=
5,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre=
-wrap">&lt;author&gt; we think that it is a good abbreviation to indicate a=
bout leaf, take the &quot;f&quot; instead of the l </span>=C2=A0<span style=
=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px=
;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;</span></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
N3) section 3.1, inconsistent use of quotes around 01 and 1 in the same sec=
tion<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255=
);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">=
&lt;author&gt; could you please clarify, we </span><span style=3D"backgroun=
d-color:transparent;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">dont understand what is wrong with=
 that. </span><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span><span=
 style=3D"background-color:transparent;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
N4) section 4, acronyms such 6LR are here explained while section 2 referre=
d to<br>
an external document... perhaps worth augmenting section 2 and removing the=
<br>
description in section 4 ?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0<span =
style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size=
:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D=
"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt; </span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
N5) section 4, s/in non-storing (RPL-NSM)/in non-storing mode (RPL-NSM)/<br=
></blockquote><div>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; f=
ixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
N6) section 5 does not use the previously introduced abbreviations... this =
I-D<br>
looks like a patchwork (different authors -- and I made multiple times the =
same<br>
&#39;mistake&#39; ;-) )<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0<span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:=
14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"=
color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;whi=
te-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
N7) section 5 s/Extensions may not be added/Extensions Headers may not be a=
dded/<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(=
255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:p=
re-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,25=
5);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap"=
>&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
<br>
N8) section 5 repeat the use of 01 in the option and its explanation =3D&gt=
; remove<br>
this part<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><span id=3D"m_860851973743703651=
2gmail-docs-internal-guid-e0c9fc5c-7fff-121a-10af-ade9bd80de7e"><p dir=3D"l=
tr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-=
asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(255,0,255)">&lt;author&gt; </span>However, unlike [RFC6553], the H=
op-by-Hop Option Header used for the</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line=
-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:=
transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0RPI artifact has the=
 first two bits set to &#39;00&#39;.=C2=A0 This means that the</span></p><p=
 dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rg=
b(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-vari=
ant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=
=C2=A0RPI artifact will be ignored when received by a host or router that</=
span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bot=
tom:16pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quo=
t;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:norma=
l;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wr=
ap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0does not understand that option ( Section 4.2 [RFC8200]).<=
/span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bo=
ttom:16pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:norm=
al;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-w=
rap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=E2=87=92 is it this part you want us t=
o remove? </span><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=
=C2=A0</p></span><br class=3D"m_8608519737437036512gmail-Apple-interchange-=
newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
>
N9) section 5 s/to add to remove/to add and remove/ ?<br></blockquote><div>=
=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quo=
t;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<s=
pan style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-=
size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
N10) section 6, s/It indicate/It indicates/<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0<spa=
n style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-si=
ze:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=
=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px=
;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
N11) section 6, s/hop by hop/hop-by-hop/<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0<span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:=
14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"=
color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;whi=
te-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Ma=
ny Thanks again,</div><div><br></div><div>Ines, Michael and Pascal=C2=A0</d=
iv></div></div>

--000000000000179372058909a468--


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From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
To: Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
CC: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org>, Peter Van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
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--_000_B0E87E85ACD54C8CABFBBD2C025553BCciscocom_--


From nobody Thu May 16 23:17:37 2019
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Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-27: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The revised ID has fixed all my DISCUSS points. Thank you to the authors.



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Hi Benjamin,

Many Thanks for your detailed review. We have submitted a new version with
corrections. Please find answers in-line.

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 4:53 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are several internal inconsistencies that needs to be
> resolved before publication, specifically for:
> (1) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows
> from the Internet to a ~Raf -- Section 6.2.4 says addressed to the ~Raf,
> but Figure 7 says "hop".
>

<author> fixed to hop-by-hop </author>


> (2) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows
> from a ~Raf to a ~Raf -- Section 6.3.4 says addressed to the ~Raf, but
> Figure 7 says "hop"
>

<author> fixed to hop-by-hop </author>

(3) Table 14 says "(opt: RPI)" which, though not defined, I take to mean
> as indicating that the insertion of the RPI is optional, but the body
> text in Section 7.1.2 is unconditional that the 6LBR inserts an RPI
> header
>
<author>fixed. Previous ideas was that downwards traffic could optionally
omit the RPI, but RPI is needed for quality of service, so no longer
optional</author>



> (4) Section 7.2.1 does not mention adding v6-in-v6 encapsulation, but
> Figure 8 has a "must" in that column.
>

<author> Corrected to: Table 8 =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D changed by =E2=80=9CN=
o=E2=80=9D

</author>



> (5) Section 7.3.1 only has descriptive text that "[t]he originating node
> should put the RPI into an IPv6-in-IPv6 header", but Figure 8 lists this
> behavior as "must" (though there would also be a second v6-in-v6
> encapsulationi from root to destination, which is clearly a must).
> (Note that Section 7.3.2 covers essentially the same flow, but uses
> "which must be in an IPv6-in-IPv6 header addressed to the root".)
>

<author>Corrected to: The originating node must put the RPI into an
IPv6-in-IPv6

               header addressed to the root </author>



> (6) In Section 5, we say that the DODAG root "SHOULD force [rank
> information]
> to zero" but then that "[t]he Internet will therefore not see any
> SenderRank
> information", and a SHOULD-level requirement is not enough to guarantee
> this statement as fact.
>


<author> Corrected to: changed to MUST </author>


>
> Additionally, there are some terminology inconsistencies in Figures 7
> and 8 that need to be cleaned up or explained.  For example, in Figure
> 7, what is the difference between "Yes" and "must" in the "IPv6-in-IPv6"
> column, and in the "v6-in-v6 dst" column, what does "root" mean?
> In Figure 8, what does "Opt" mean in the "RPI" column?
>


<author> Corrected Figure 7 to:   ~Raf to ~Raf changed from =E2=80=9CYes=E2=
=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D in
the "IPv6-in-IPv6" column

Added in the text for figure 7: The root refers to the 6LBR.

</author>



>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Section 1
>
>    An interim meeting went through the 24 cases defined here to discover
>    if there were any shortcuts, and this document is the result of that
>    discussion.  This document clarifies examples that intend to
>    illustrate the result of the normative language in RFC8200 and
>    RFC6553.  In other words, the examples are intended to be normative
>    explanation of the results of executing that language.
>
> I agree with the GenART reviewer that this language is hard to parse
> into useful expectations, and I'm not sure that the suggestion in
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/FnrfXDQ4ZmGniUpa2y-qKA6bkOg
> helps very much.  In particular, what does it mean for an example to be
> a "normative explanation"?
>

<author>  New Paragraph: The ROLL WG analyzed how [RFC2460] rules apply to
storing and non-

  storing use of RPL.  The result was 24 data plane use cases.  They

  are exhaustively outlined here in order to be completely unambiguous.

  During the processing of this document, new rules were published as

  [RFC8200], and this document was updated to reflect the normative

  changes in that document.

</author>



>
> Section 2
>
> As noted by the rtgdir reviewer, the volume of new terminology
> introduced is rather extensive, and hard for a newcomer to overcome.
>
>    Flag Day: A transition that involves having a network with different
>    values of RPL Option Type.  Thus the network does not work correctly.
>
> This does not match up with what I understood the colloquial definition
> of "flag day" to be (i.e., the specific act of cutting over from old to
> new, designed to minimize the duration of the transient period when the
> network does not work correctly, with extensive planning and
> coordination needed to effectuate a scheduled, as opposed to rolling,
> cutover).  It seems that the later usage of the term "flag day" in this
> document is internally consistent with the definition here, at least.
>
>    Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers: The term "hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6"
>    header refers to: adding a header that originates from a node to an
>    adjacent node, using the addresses (usually the GUA or ULA, but could
>    use the link-local addresses) of each node.  If the packet must
>    traverse multiple hops, then it must be decapsulated at each hop, and
>    then re-encapsulated again in a similar fashion.
>
> I'm not seeing where in the description the "IPv6-in-IPv6" nature is
> used -- couldn't this description equally apply to regular hop-by-hop
> IPv6 headers?  Is the distinction that the added header is specifically
> on the *inner* IPv6 representation?
>

<author> corrected to hop-by-hop re-encapsulation </author>



>
> Section 3.1
>
>    Based on that, if an IPv6 (intermediate) node (RPL-not-capable)
>    receives a packet with an RPL Option, it should ignore the HBH RPL
>    option (skip over this option and continue processing the header).
>    This is relevant, as it was mentioned previously, in the case that
>    there is a flow from RPL-aware-leaf to Internet (see Section 6.2.1).
>
>    Thus, this document updates the Option Type field to: the two high
>    order bits MUST be set to '00' and the third bit is equal to '1'.
>
> I am not sure that the "Thus" is appropriate -- as the secdir reviewer
> notes, the logical connection is a bit tenuous, and the main connection
> here seems to just be that 8200 endorses the concept of skipping over
> some things, which gives us cover to use an option type that is
> skippable.  But I'm probably misunderstanding here, and would welcome an
> explanation of the nature of my confusion.
>

<author> You have made the right conclusion.  How can we make the text
clearer that your conclusion is the desired one?</author>

>
>    The non-storing mode case does not require the type change from 0x63
>    to 0x23, as the root can always create the right packet.  The type
>    change does not adversely affect the non-storing case.
>
> This section doesn't seem to explicitly call out the storing case for
> special discussion.  Is there anything useful to say about it?
>

<author> The above paragraph is part of the discussion/analysis of why/when
the type change is justified.  The downward non-storing case does not
specifically benefit, because it always has to add an IPv6-in-IPv6 header,
and it can always address the traffic in such a way that the header can be
removed.  However, in both storing and non-storing cases, the traffic from
RPL nodes to the Internet (MP2P traffic, i.e. sensor traffic) benefit from
simpler processing by being able to leave the RPI header in place for the
transit across the Internet.  If it would be simpler, the above paragraph
could be removed.</author>

>
> Section 3.2
>
>                                                          The node will
>    know which to use based upon the presence of the DODAG Configuration
>    Option described in the next section.  [...]
>
> nit: is it the mere *presence* of the DODAG Configuration Option, or the
> information contained therein, that is relevant for this decision?
>

<author> Corrected to: based upon the presence of the flag in the DIO
Configuration Option defined

</author>



>
>    There are potential significant advantages to having a single code
>    path that always processes IPv6-in-IPv6 headers with no options.
>
> nit(?): There seems to be potential ambiguity about whether "no options"
> means "no IPv6 options" or "no conditional branches in the processing
> flow".
>
> I'm also not entirely sure how this sentence is supposed to tie in to
> the rest of the section.
>

<author> =E2=80=9Cno conditional branches in the processing flow=E2=80=9D i=
s intended.  We
have changed the ambiguity.</author>

>
> Figure 3 is pretty sparsely annotated.
>
<author> Figure 3 was changed for the correct one. </author>

>
> Section 4
>
> In Figure 5, why does the line from D to B have an arrowhead but none of
> the other lines do?
>

<author> fixed </author>

>
> Section 5
>
>    NOTE: There is some possible security risk when the RPI information
>    is released to the Internet.  At this point this is a theoretical
>    situation; no clear attack has been described.  At worst, it is clear
>    that the RPI option would waste some network bandwidth when it
>    escapes.  This is traded off against the savings in the LLN by not
>    having to encapsulate the packet in order to remove the artifact.
>
> The risk seems open-ended given the potential for sub-TLVs in the RPI.
> Where would a potential author of a new sub-TLV look to get guidance on
> the potential security risks from having the sub-TLV contents released
> to the internet?  Is there something useful we could add via this
> document?
>

<author>The answer: There is no TLV present in the RPI. Consuming space in
the ipv6 header and it might consume of resources in the routers.

</author>



> Also, I agree with the secdir reviewer that "at worst" should be "at a
> minimum".
>

<author> fixed </author>


>
>    Despite being legal to leave the RPI artifact in place, an
>    intermediate router that needs to add an extension header (RH3 or RPI
>    Option) MUST still encapsulate the packet in an (additional) outer IP
>    header.  The new header is placed after this new outer IP header.
>
> I didn't think that "RH3 or RPI Option" was an exhaustive list, and
> isn't this duplicating a requirement from another specification anyway?
> (That is, the "MUST" is probably not appropriate.)
>


<author> This entire document is repeating RFC8200 rules with specific
examples, so that nobody will be confused. We inserted =E2=80=9Ce.g.=E2=80=
=9D</author>



>
>    RPI MUST be present in every single RPL data packet.  There is one
>    exception in non-storing mode: when a packet is going down from the
>    root the RPI MAY be omitted.  The rational is that in a downward non-
>
> This "MUST be present [...] one exception" is not a great way to phrase
> things.  Collapsing into the same sentence with a comma "MUST be present
> [...], with one execption: [...]" would help some, but it may even be
> possible to use descriptive rather than normative language.
>

<author> since RPI is no longer optional. We deleted that part. </author>



>
> nit: s/rational/rationale/
>

<author> fixed </author>

>
> Section 6
>
>    The following table (Figure 7) itemizes which headers are needed in
>    each of the following scenarios.  It indicate if an IPv6-in-IPv6
>    header must be inserted, and whether the destination address of the
>    IPv6-in-IPv6 header is the next hop, or the final target address.
>    There are these possible situations: hop-by-hop necessary (indicated
>    by "hop"), or final target address possible (indicated by "tgt").  In
>    all cases hop by hop may be used rather than the final target
>    address.
>
> nit: we could probably make a stronger rhetorical connection betweeen
> "the destination address is the next hop" and "hop-by-hop necessary" --
> these tables are pretty complicated as-is, so every bit helps!
>

<author> New Paragraph:  The following table (Figure 7) itemizes which
headers are needed in

  each of the following scenarios.  It indicates if the IPv6-in-IPv6

  header that is added, must be addressed to the final destination (the

  Raf node that is the target(tgt)), to the "root" or if a hop-by-hop

  header must be added (indicated by "hop").


The tables were fixed to be clearer.

</author>



>
>    In each case, 6LR_i are the intermediate routers from source to
>    destination.  "1 <=3D i <=3D n", n is the number of routers (6LR) that
>    the packet go through from source (6LN) to destination.
>
> nit: singular/plural mismatch with "packet" and "go through"
>
<author> fixed </author>

>
> Section 6.1.1
>
>    For example, a communication flow could be: Node F --> Node E -->
>    Node B --> Node A root(6LBR)
>
> I think maybe a directorate reviewer already noted, but it seems that
> node D was intended rather than node E.
>
<author> fixed </author>

>
> Section 6.2.2
>
> Should we say what the IPv6-in-IPv6 destination address is set to in
> this case?
>

<author> Corrected To:

When the packet arrives from Internet to 6LBR the RPI header is added
   in a outer IPv6-in-IPv6 header (with the IPv6-in-IPv6 destination
   address set to the 6LR) and sent to 6LR, which modifies the rank in
   the RPI.  When the packet arrives at 6LN the RPI header is removed

   and the packet processed.
</author>

>
> Section 6.2.3
>
> Why does the 6LBR not remove headers in the the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI)(2) case=
?
>


<author> Fixed: added in the table for the 6LBR: <c>IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI)(1)(2)
</c>

</author>



>
> Section 6.2.4
>
> I'm not sure how to interpret the Table.  Does the IPv6 node remove the
> RPI or ignore it?
>

<author>Answer: The IPv6 node removes the header and does not process the
RPI, the node ignores the RPI (this is normal IPv6 INPUT packet processing
when a packet arrives at the destination, processing extension headers
until the Upper Layer Protocol is reached).

</author>



>
> Section 6.3.1
>
>    While the 6LR nodes will update the RPI, no node needs to add or
>    remove the RPI, so no IPv6-in-IPv6 headers are necessary.  This may
>    be done regardless of where the destination is, as the included RPI
>    will be ignored by the receiver.
>
> I'm not sure what variation in the receiver location this is supposed to
> allow, given that we have already specified it to be a Raf in the same
> RPL Domain.
>
> <author>Deleted this part: =E2=80=9CThis may be done regardless of where =
the
destination is, as the included RPI will be ignored by the receiver.=E2=80=
=9D
</author>


> Section 6.3.4
>
>    not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--> 6LR_1--> 6LR_ia --> 6LR_id --> not-
>    RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 dst)
>
> Is the root considered to be a 6LR_ia or a 6LR_id?
>

<author> fixed, root added to the table </author>

>
>    Note that this flow is identical to Section 6.3.3, except for where
>    the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is inserted.
>
> I'm still not seeing a difference in where the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is
> inserted.
>

<author>fixed, we deleted that sentence </author>

>
> Section 7
>
>    The following table (Figure 8) summarizes what headers are needed in
>    the following scenarios, and indicates when the RPI, RH3 and IPv6-in-
>    IPv6 header are to be inserted.  There are these possible situations:
>    target destination address possible (indicated by "tgt"), to a 6LR,
>    to a 6LN or to the root.  In cases where no IPv6-in-IPv6 header is
>    needed, the column states as "No".
>
> "There are these possible situations" seems overly broad; if I
> understand correctly, it is discussing only the last ("v6-in-v6 dst")
> column's possible values.
>
> Is the "to a 6LR" case always going to be "the last 6LR before the 6LN
> or 6LBR"?  It may be worth a few words to clarify that.
>

<author>Corrected to:

Old: There are these possible situations: target destination address
possible (indicated by "tgt"), to a 6LR, to a 6LN or to the root.

New: It depicts the target destination address possible (indicated by
"tgt"), to a 6LR (parent of a 6LN), to a 6LN or to the root.

</author>



>
>    The leaf can be a router 6LR or a host, both indicated as 6LN
>    (Figure 3).  In the Figure the (1) indicates a 6tisch case [RFC8180],
>    where the instanceID portion of the RPI header may still be needed to
>    pick an appropriate priority or channel at each hop.
>
> This wording seems to imply that it is possible to cherry-pick just the
> instanceID portion of the RPI header without (e.g.) the SenderRank,
> which does not match my understanding of what is possible.  Perhaps
> "where the RPI header may still be needed for the instanceID to be
> available for priority/channel selection at each hop" is better wording?
>

<author>Corrected as suggested in the text: The leaf can be a router 6LR or
a host, both indicated as 6LN

   (Figure 3).  In the Figure the (1) indicates a 6tisch case [RFC8180
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8180>],
   where the RPI header may still be needed for the instanceID to be
   available for priority/channel selection at each hop.


</author>



>
> Section 7.1.2
>
>    The destination is known to RPL-aware because, the root knows the
>    whole topology in non-storing mode.
>
> nits: "to be", and no comma is needed.
>

<author>fixed </author>

>
> Section 7.1.3
>
> I think I would prefer if the body text mentioned that an RPI is
> optionally added (for the 6tisch case where the instanceID is needed).
>

<author> we deleted the optionality of RPI </author>

>
> I'm not sure that I understand why the RPI is marked as being modified
> by the 6LR_i in this case but not in Section 7.1.2.
>

<author>fixed </author>

>
> Table 15 should probably keep the parentheses around "(opt: RPI)" in the
> column for the ~Raf.
>

<author>fixed </author>

>
> Section 7.2.4
>
> It seems that Table 20 could coalesce the 6LR_1 column into the 6LR_i
> column, and instead break out a 6LR_n column as is done in (e.g.)
> Section 7.1.3.
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> Section 7.3.1
>
> The conventions established previously in this document would seem to
> have us include the "IPv6-in-IPV6()" indicator in the "Modified headers"
> row.
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> Section 7.3.2
>
> I think the Table 22 column header is better as 6LR_ia than 6LR_1.
> It would be nice to be able to distinguish the generic 6LR_id and 6LR_m
> cases, but I'm not sure if there's enough horizontal space for that.
> Some textual discussion in the Table legend would be very helpful,
> though.
>
<author>fixed </author>

>
> Section 7.3.3
>
>    not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6) --> 6LR_ia --> root (6LBR) --> 6LR_id -->
>    6LN
>
> Is there a separate 6LR_1 step to be mentioned here?
>
> It's unclear if there's enough room for it in Table 23, but presumably
> the generic 6LR_ia are modifying the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI_1) headers?
>

<author>fixed </author>

>
> Section 7.3.4
>
>    not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--> 6LR_ia --> root (6LBR) --> 6LR_id -->
>    not-RPL-aware (IPv6 dst)
>
> Are there separate 6LR_1 and 6LR_m steps to mention here?
>
> As for 7.3.3, Table 24 seems to be missing some columns for intermediate
> 6LRs that merely modify the RPI headers, though I recognize space
> concerns.
>

<author>fixed </author>

>
> Section 8
>
>    The above case occurs whenever traffic originates from the outside
>    the LLN (the "Internet" cases above), and non-storing mode is used.
>    In non-storing mode, the RPL root knows the exact topology (as it
>    must be create the RH3 header), and therefore knows what the 6LR
>    prior to the leaf --- the 6LR_n.
>
> nit: "what the 6LR prior to the leaf is" or "which 6LR is immediately
> prior to the leaf" or similar
>

<author> Added in Text: For example, in Figure 5, node E is the 6LR prior
to the leaf node G, or node C is the 6LR prior to the leaf node J.</author>

>
> Section 9
>
>    During bootstrapping the node get the DIO with the information of RPL
>    Option Type, indicating the new RPI in the DODAG Configuration Option
>    Flag.  The DODAG root is in charge to configure the current network
>    to the new value, through DIO messages and when all the nodes are set
>    with the new value.  [...]
>
> Perhaps a reminder of how "all the nodes are set with the new value" is
> detected by the root would be helpful.
>

<author> Added in Text: The DODAG Configuration option is contained in a
RPL DIO message, which contains a unique DTSN counter.  The leaf nodes
respond to this message with DAO messages containing the same DTSN. This is
a normal part of RPL routing; the RPL root therefore knows when the updated
DODAG Configuration Option has been seen by all nodes. </author>

>
>    The migration path to the change from 0x63 to 0x23 in networks that
>    accepts both values is changed when the DIO is sent with the flag
>    indicating the new RPI value.  Namely, it remains at 0x63 until it is
>
> nit: How is it the *migration path* that is changed when the DIO with
> flag is sent?  That seems to be making the migration happen, but the
> path is the same as it ever was.
>

<author> fixed, changed to migration procedure </author>

>
> Section 11
>
>    While a typical LLN may be a very poor origin for attack traffic (as
>    the networks tend to be very slow, and the nodes often have very low
>    duty cycles) given enough nodes, they could still have a significant
>    impact, particularly if the attack was on another LLN!  Additionally,
>
> I agree with the secdir reviewer that "target of the attack was another
> LLN!" (or similar) would be clearer.
>

<author> fixed </author>

>
>    With the above precautions, an attack using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnels will
>    be by a node within the LLN on another node within the LLN.  Such an
>
> nit: I'd suggest s/will be/can only be/ to emphasize the restrictive
> nature of the precautions.
>

<author> fixed </author>

>
>    The RH3 header usage described here can be abused in equivalent ways
>    with an IPv6-in-IPv6 header to add the needed RH3 header.  As such,
>
> I don't think I understand what this is trying to say.  What are the
> things that are equivalent?
>

<author> added:=E2=80=9D equivalent (to

  disguise the origin of traffic and attack other nodes) =E2=80=9C

</author>



>
>    The RPI header, if permitted to enter the LLN, could be used by an
>    attacker to change the priority of a packet by selecting a different
>    RPLInstanceID, perhaps one with a higher energy cost, for instance.
>    It could also be that not all nodes are reachable in an LLN using the
>    default instanceID, but a change of instanceID would permit an
>    attacker to bypass such filtering.  Like the RH3, a RPI header is to
>    be inserted by the RPL root on traffic entering the LLN by first
>    inserting an IPv6-in-IPv6 header.  The attacker's RPI header
>    therefore will not be seen by the network.  Upon reaching the
>    destination node the RPI header has no further meaning and is just
>    skipped; the presence of a second RPI header will have no meaning to
>    the end node as the packet has already been identified as being at
>    it's final destination.
>
> This text does not really convince me that it considers the non-storing
> case where a packet is directed to a non-6LR-aware leaf, and the last
> 6LR removes the IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation prior to sending the packet
> on to the IPv6 node.
>

<author> This is a good point, thank you for observing this. You are right
that the 6LR that removes the outer IP/RH3/RPI will then possibly be
mistaken by the inner RPI inserted by the attacker.  Do you think it is
enough to declare that further RPI processing must be skipped by such a
final router? we do not think that we have a use case for a legitimate RPI
header here. </author>

>
>    Nodes within the LLN can use the IPv6-in-IPv6 mechanism to mount an
>    attack on another part of the LLN, while disguising the origin of the
>    attack.  The mechanism can even be abused to make it appear that the
>    attack is coming from outside the LLN, and unless countered, this
>    could be used to mount a Distributed Denial Of Service attack upon
>    nodes elsewhere in the Internet.  See [DDOS-KREBS] for an example of
>    such attacks already seen in the real world.
>
> It's not really clear to me that [DDOS-KREBS] is illustrative of
> IPv6-in-IPv6 spoofing from a LLN.
>

<author> DDOS-KREBS is an example of high-bandwidth attacks being
constructed from millions of relatively low-bandwidth senders. It is not an
IPv6-in-IPv6 spoofing attack, as the script kiddies are as yet,
IPv6-ignorant and LLNs are uncommon.

</author>



>
>    If an attack comes from inside of LLN, it can be alleviated with SAVI
>    (Source Address Validation Improvement) using [RFC8505] with
>    [I-D.ietf-6lo-ap-nd].  The attacker will not be able to source with
>
> nit: is "source with" a common term?
>

<author> replaced by =E2=80=9Csource traffic=E2=80=9D </author>

>
>    an address that is not registered, and the registration checks for
>
> nit: "registration process"?
>

<author> fixed </author>

>
>    topological correctness.  Notice that there is an L2 authentication
>    in most of the cases.  If an attack comes from outside LLN IPv6-in-
>    IPv6 can be used to hide inner routing headers, but RH3 is protected
>    by its definition.
>
> Protected from what?  How?
>

<author>

Old text: but RH3 is protected by its definition.

new text: but by construction, the RH3 can typically only address nodes
within the LLN.  That is, a RH3 with a CmprI less than 8 , should be
considered an attack (see RFC6554, section 3).

</author>



>
>    Nodes outside of the LLN will need to pass IPv6-in-IPv6 traffic
>    through the RPL root to perform this attack.  To counter, the RPL
>    root SHOULD either restrict ingress of IPv6-in-IPv6 packets (the
>    simpler solution), or it SHOULD do a deep packet inspection wherein
>    it walks the IP header extension chain until it can inspect the
>    upper-layer-payload as described in [RFC7045].  In particular, the
>
> RFC 7045 does not use the term "deep packet inspection", that term has
> negative connotations for many people, and it's not entirely clear that
> it's the right term to describe the process of fully parsing the IPv6
> headers, either.
>
>  <author> corrected to: "... or it SHOULD walk the IP header extension ch=
ain

   until it can inspect the upper-layer-payload as described in

   [RFC7045 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7045>]..."

</author>


Many thanks again for the detailed review


Best regards,


Ines, Michael and Pascal.

--000000000000df8cc9058911453c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Benjamin,<div><br></div><div>Many Than=
ks for your detailed review. We have submitted a new version with correctio=
ns. Please find answers in-line.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 4:53 PM Benjam=
in Kaduk via Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">---------------------------------------------------=
-------------------<br>
DISCUSS:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
There are several internal inconsistencies that needs to be<br>
resolved before publication, specifically for:<br>
(1) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows<br>
from the Internet to a ~Raf -- Section 6.2.4 says addressed to the ~Raf,<br=
>
but Figure 7 says &quot;hop&quot;.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><spa=
n id=3D"m_-1742525468325694636gmail-docs-internal-guid-876eef7a-7fff-49f3-8=
c31-275b0caf7c14"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;m=
argin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-ea=
st-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt=
; fixed to hop-by-hop &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span></div><div>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
(2) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows<br>
from a ~Raf to a ~Raf -- Section 6.3.4 says addressed to the ~Raf, but<br>
Figure 7 says &quot;hop&quot;<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14=
px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; </span><span style=3D"color:rgb(255=
,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-=
wrap">fixed to</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;=
Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap"> hop-by-hop &lt;/aut=
hor&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">
(3) Table 14 says &quot;(opt: RPI)&quot; which, though not defined, I take =
to mean<br>
as indicating that the insertion of the RPI is optional, but the body<br>
text in Section 7.1.2 is unconditional that the 6LBR inserts an RPI<br>
header<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family=
:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&=
gt;fixed. Previous ideas was that downwards traffic could optionally omit t=
he RPI, but RPI is needed for quality of service, so no longer optional&lt;=
/author&gt;</span></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
(4) Section 7.2.1 does not mention adding v6-in-v6 encapsulation, but<br>
Figure 8 has a &quot;must&quot; in that column.<br></blockquote><div><br></=
div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-64bf9ef6-7fff-6bf2-4ac9-64555d72b8=
ab"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0=
pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;col=
or:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:norma=
l;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; Corrected to=
: Table 8 =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D changed by =E2=80=9CNo=E2=80=9D</span></p>=
<p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:r=
gb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;ve=
rtical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></sp=
an><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
(5) Section 7.3.1 only has descriptive text that &quot;[t]he originating no=
de<br>
should put the RPI into an IPv6-in-IPv6 header&quot;, but Figure 8 lists th=
is<br>
behavior as &quot;must&quot; (though there would also be a second v6-in-v6<=
br>
encapsulationi from root to destination, which is clearly a must).<br>
(Note that Section 7.3.2 covers essentially the same flow, but uses<br>
&quot;which must be in an IPv6-in-IPv6 header addressed to the root&quot;.)=
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-715336=
74-7fff-dc5f-b04d-2a1baeecd37d"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;ma=
rgin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;f=
ont-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"=
>&lt;author&gt;Corrected to: The originating node </span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font=
-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">must</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-var=
iant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;=
white-space:pre-wrap"> put the RPI into an IPv6-in-IPv6</span></p><p dir=3D=
"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,=
255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-al=
ign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0header addressed to the =
root &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-=
newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
>
(6) In Section 5, we say that the DODAG root &quot;SHOULD force [rank infor=
mation]<br>
to zero&quot; but then that &quot;[t]he Internet will therefore not see any=
 SenderRank<br>
information&quot;, and a SHOULD-level requirement is not enough to guarante=
e<br>
this statement as fact.<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><span id=3D"gmail-=
docs-internal-guid-0b1f9a26-7fff-2cdb-e0d5-02fd5ba10b27"><p dir=3D"ltr" sty=
le=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font=
-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:basel=
ine;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; Corrected to: changed to MUST &lt;=
/author&gt;</span></p></span><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Additionally, there are some terminology inconsistencies in Figures 7<br>
and 8 that need to be cleaned up or explained.=C2=A0 For example, in Figure=
<br>
7, what is the difference between &quot;Yes&quot; and &quot;must&quot; in t=
he &quot;IPv6-in-IPv6&quot;<br>
column, and in the &quot;v6-in-v6 dst&quot; column, what does &quot;root&qu=
ot; mean?<br>
In Figure 8, what does &quot;Opt&quot; mean in the &quot;RPI&quot; column?<=
br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-9e13a=
a04-7fff-03e4-518d-cf2a9264a5be"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;m=
argin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;=
font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap=
">&lt;author&gt; Corrected Figure 7 to: =C2=A0=C2=A0~Raf to ~Raf changed fr=
om =E2=80=9CYes=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D </span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-va=
riant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline=
;white-space:pre-wrap">in the &quot;IPv6-in-IPv6&quot; column</span></p><p =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.4568;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rg=
b(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;ver=
tical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Added in the text for figure 7: =
The root refers to the 6LBR.</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-hei=
ght:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numer=
ic:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-spac=
e:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-inter=
change-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Section 1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0An interim meeting went through the 24 cases defined here to d=
iscover<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0if there were any shortcuts, and this document is the result o=
f that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0discussion.=C2=A0 This document clarifies examples that intend=
 to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0illustrate the result of the normative language in RFC8200 and=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RFC6553.=C2=A0 In other words, the examples are intended to be=
 normative<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0explanation of the results of executing that language.<br>
<br>
I agree with the GenART reviewer that this language is hard to parse<br>
into useful expectations, and I&#39;m not sure that the suggestion in<br>
<a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/FnrfXDQ4ZmGniUpa2y=
-qKA6bkOg" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.or=
g/arch/msg/gen-art/FnrfXDQ4ZmGniUpa2y-qKA6bkOg</a><br>
helps very much.=C2=A0 In particular, what does it mean for an example to b=
e<br>
a &quot;normative explanation&quot;?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><s=
pan id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-9c0d11b3-7fff-791e-0ac8-aa290ac2ab93"><p=
 dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb=
(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; =C2=A0New Paragrap=
h: The ROLL WG analyzed how [RFC2460] rules apply to storing and non-</span=
></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:=
0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;co=
lor:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:norm=
al;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0storing use o=
f RPL.=C2=A0 The result was 24 data plane use cases.=C2=A0 They</span></p><=
p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rg=
b(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;ver=
tical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0are exhaustively ou=
tlined here in order to be completely unambiguous.</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr"=
 style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);=
font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:b=
aseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0During the processing of this do=
cument, new rules were published as</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-=
height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-nu=
meric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0[RFC8200], and this document was updated to ref=
lect the normative</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margi=
n-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font=
-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0changes in that document.</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"lin=
e-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-=
numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white=
-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple=
-interchange-newline"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 2<br>
<br>
As noted by the rtgdir reviewer, the volume of new terminology<br>
introduced is rather extensive, and hard for a newcomer to overcome.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Flag Day: A transition that involves having a network with dif=
ferent<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0values of RPL Option Type.=C2=A0 Thus the network does not wor=
k correctly.<br>
<br>
This does not match up with what I understood the colloquial definition<br>
of &quot;flag day&quot; to be (i.e., the specific act of cutting over from =
old to<br>
new, designed to minimize the duration of the transient period when the<br>
network does not work correctly, with extensive planning and<br>
coordination needed to effectuate a scheduled, as opposed to rolling,<br>
cutover).=C2=A0 It seems that the later usage of the term &quot;flag day&qu=
ot; in this<br>
document is internally consistent with the definition here, at least.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers: The term &quot;hop-by-hop IPv=
6-in-IPv6&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0header refers to: adding a header that originates from a node =
to an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0adjacent node, using the addresses (usually the GUA or ULA, bu=
t could<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0use the link-local addresses) of each node.=C2=A0 If the packe=
t must<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverse multiple hops, then it must be decapsulated at each h=
op, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0then re-encapsulated again in a similar fashion.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not seeing where in the description the &quot;IPv6-in-IPv6&quot; na=
ture is<br>
used -- couldn&#39;t this description equally apply to regular hop-by-hop<b=
r>
IPv6 headers?=C2=A0 Is the distinction that the added header is specificall=
y<br>
on the *inner* IPv6 representation?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=
=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-de7f6c9f-7fff-0e9f-2b27-e4f7a848fa0b"><p dir=
=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255=
,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; corrected to hop-by-ho=
p</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;=
font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap=
"> re-encapsulation</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-va=
riant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;=
/author&gt;</span></p><br></span><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 3.1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Based on that, if an IPv6 (intermediate) node (RPL-not-capable=
)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0receives a packet with an RPL Option, it should ignore the HBH=
 RPL<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0option (skip over this option and continue processing the head=
er).<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is relevant, as it was mentioned previously, in the case =
that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0there is a flow from RPL-aware-leaf to Internet (see Section 6=
.2.1).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thus, this document updates the Option Type field to: the two =
high<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0order bits MUST be set to &#39;00&#39; and the third bit is eq=
ual to &#39;1&#39;.<br>
<br>
I am not sure that the &quot;Thus&quot; is appropriate -- as the secdir rev=
iewer<br>
notes, the logical connection is a bit tenuous, and the main connection<br>
here seems to just be that 8200 endorses the concept of skipping over<br>
some things, which gives us cover to use an option type that is<br>
skippable.=C2=A0 But I&#39;m probably misunderstanding here, and would welc=
ome an<br>
explanation of the nature of my confusion.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; You have made the ri=
ght conclusion.=C2=A0 How can we make the text clearer that your conclusion=
 is the desired one?&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The non-storing mode case does not require the type change fro=
m 0x63<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to 0x23, as the root can always create the right packet.=C2=A0=
 The type<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0change does not adversely affect the non-storing case.<br>
<br>
This section doesn&#39;t seem to explicitly call out the storing case for<b=
r>
special discussion.=C2=A0 Is there anything useful to say about it?<br></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-famil=
y:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author=
&gt; The above paragraph is part of the discussion/analysis of why/when the=
 type change is justified.=C2=A0 The downward non-storing case does not spe=
cifically benefit, because it always has to add an IPv6-in-IPv6 header, and=
 it can always address the traffic in such a way that the header can be rem=
oved.=C2=A0 However, in both storing and non-storing cases, the traffic fro=
m RPL nodes to the Internet (MP2P traffic, i.e. sensor traffic) benefit fro=
m simpler processing by being able to leave the RPI header in place for the=
 transit across the Internet.=C2=A0 If it would be simpler, the above parag=
raph could be removed.&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 3.2<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The node will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0know which to use based upon the presence of the DODAG Configu=
ration<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Option described in the next section.=C2=A0 [...]<br>
<br>
nit: is it the mere *presence* of the DODAG Configuration Option, or the<br=
>
information contained therein, that is relevant for this decision?<br></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-b92a6806-7fff-e=
20e-8d8c-b8667f32ab78"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:=
0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-varia=
nt-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;auth=
or&gt; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;fo=
nt-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:bas=
eline;white-space:pre-wrap">Corrected to:</span><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-co=
lor:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> based upon the presence of t=
he </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-var=
iant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;=
white-space:pre-wrap">flag</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:transparent;f=
ont-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap"> in the DIO Configuration Option </span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0=
,255);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:nor=
mal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-=
wrap">defined</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top=
:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-vari=
ant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/a=
uthor&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><d=
iv>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are potential significant advantages to having a single =
code<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0path that always processes IPv6-in-IPv6 headers with no option=
s.<br>
<br>
nit(?): There seems to be potential ambiguity about whether &quot;no option=
s&quot;<br>
means &quot;no IPv6 options&quot; or &quot;no conditional branches in the p=
rocessing<br>
flow&quot;.<br>
<br></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I&#39;m =
also not entirely sure how this sentence is supposed to tie in to<br>
the rest of the section.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;=
white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; =E2=80=9Cno conditional branches in th=
e processing flow=E2=80=9D is intended.=C2=A0 We have changed the ambiguity=
.&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">
<br>
Figure 3 is pretty sparsely annotated.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;w=
hite-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; Figure 3 was changed for the correct on=
e. &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 4<br>
<br>
In Figure 5, why does the line from D to B have an arrowhead but none of<br=
>
the other lines do?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white=
-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 5<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0NOTE: There is some possible security risk when the RPI inform=
ation<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is released to the Internet.=C2=A0 At this point this is a the=
oretical<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0situation; no clear attack has been described.=C2=A0 At worst,=
 it is clear<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that the RPI option would waste some network bandwidth when it=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0escapes.=C2=A0 This is traded off against the savings in the L=
LN by not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0having to encapsulate the packet in order to remove the artifa=
ct.<br>
<br>
The risk seems open-ended given the potential for sub-TLVs in the RPI.<br>
Where would a potential author of a new sub-TLV look to get guidance on<br>
the potential security risks from having the sub-TLV contents released<br>
to the internet?=C2=A0 Is there something useful we could add via this<br>
document?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-gu=
id-e89d614e-7fff-ad77-e9d3-d4aa42f8e6b6"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-heigh=
t:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric=
:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:=
pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-=
weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;verti=
cal-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The answer</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);backgroun=
d-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-varian=
t-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">: There i=
s no TLV present in the RPI. Consuming space in the ipv6 header and it migh=
t consume of resources in the routers</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:tran=
sparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">.</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"l=
ine-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-varian=
t-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;whi=
te-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-App=
le-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">
Also, I agree with the secdir reviewer that &quot;at worst&quot; should be =
&quot;at a<br>
minimum&quot;.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb=
(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:=
pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span><br></div><div>=C2=A0<=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Despite being legal to leave the RPI artifact in place, an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0intermediate router that needs to add an extension header (RH3=
 or RPI<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Option) MUST still encapsulate the packet in an (additional) o=
uter IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0header.=C2=A0 The new header is placed after this new outer IP=
 header.<br>
<br>
I didn&#39;t think that &quot;RH3 or RPI Option&quot; was an exhaustive lis=
t, and<br>
isn&#39;t this duplicating a requirement from another specification anyway?=
<br>
(That is, the &quot;MUST&quot; is probably not appropriate.)<br></blockquot=
e><div>=C2=A0</div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-257f54f1-7fff-72f5-=
2f92-e1b0283dff44"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;=
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e=
ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&g=
t; This entire document is repeating RFC8200 rules with specific examples, =
so that nobody will be confused. We inserted =E2=80=9Ce.g.=E2=80=9D&lt;/aut=
hor&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div=
>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPI MUST be present in every single RPL data packet.=C2=A0 The=
re is one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0exception in non-storing mode: when a packet is going down fro=
m the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0root the RPI MAY be omitted.=C2=A0 The rational is that in a d=
ownward non-<br>
<br>
This &quot;MUST be present [...] one exception&quot; is not a great way to =
phrase<br>
things.=C2=A0 Collapsing into the same sentence with a comma &quot;MUST be =
present<br>
[...], with one execption: [...]&quot; would help some, but it may even be<=
br>
possible to use descriptive rather than normative language.<br></blockquote=
><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-93967ff0-7fff-b947-993=
1-d650de072a6f"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;mar=
gin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east=
-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; =
since RPI is no longer optional. We deleted that part. &lt;/author&gt;</spa=
n></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
nit: s/rational/rationale/<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px=
;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 6<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The following table (Figure 7) itemizes which headers are need=
ed in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0each of the following scenarios.=C2=A0 It indicate if an IPv6-=
in-IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0header must be inserted, and whether the destination address o=
f the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6-in-IPv6 header is the next hop, or the final target addre=
ss.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are these possible situations: hop-by-hop necessary (ind=
icated<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by &quot;hop&quot;), or final target address possible (indicat=
ed by &quot;tgt&quot;).=C2=A0 In<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0all cases hop by hop may be used rather than the final target<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address.<br>
<br>
nit: we could probably make a stronger rhetorical connection betweeen<br>
&quot;the destination address is the next hop&quot; and &quot;hop-by-hop ne=
cessary&quot; --<br>
these tables are pretty complicated as-is, so every bit helps!<br></blockqu=
ote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-800df47e-7fff-285b-=
14a8-915b6e5f2734"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;=
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e=
ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&g=
t; New Paragraph: =C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font=
-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Th=
e following table (Figure 7) itemizes which headers are needed in</span></p=
><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rg=
b(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;ver=
tical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0each of the followi=
ng scenarios.=C2=A0 It indicates if the IPv6-in-IPv6</span></p><p dir=3D"lt=
r" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255)=
;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:=
baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0header that is added, must be a=
ddressed to the final destination (the</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"li=
ne-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-n=
umeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0Raf node that is the target(tgt)), to the &quo=
t;root&quot; or if a hop-by-hop</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-heig=
ht:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:=
normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:p=
re-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0header must be added (indicated by &quot;hop&quot;).<=
/span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bo=
ttom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:n=
ormal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></p><p style=
=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-var=
iant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;=
white-space:pre-wrap">The tables were fixed to be clearer.</span></p><br><p=
 dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb=
(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span=
><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In each case, 6LR_i are the intermediate routers from source t=
o<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination.=C2=A0 &quot;1 &lt;=3D i &lt;=3D n&quot;, n is the=
 number of routers (6LR) that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the packet go through from source (6LN) to destination.<br>
<br>
nit: singular/plural mismatch with &quot;packet&quot; and &quot;go through&=
quot;<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&g=
t; fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 6.1.1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0For example, a communication flow could be: Node F --&gt; Node=
 E --&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Node B --&gt; Node A root(6LBR)<br>
<br>
I think maybe a directorate reviewer already noted, but it seems that<br>
node D was intended rather than node E.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;=
white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 6.2.2<br>
<br>
Should we say what the IPv6-in-IPv6 destination address is set to in<br>
this case?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-variant-=
numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; </span><span style=3D"background-color:trans=
parent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Corrected To:</span></div><pre class=3D=
"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0=
px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">When the packet arrives from Interne=
t to 6LBR the RPI header is added
   in a outer IPv6-in-IPv6 header (with the IPv6-in-IPv6 destination
   address set to the 6LR) and sent to 6LR, which modifies the rank in
   the RPI.  When the packet arrives at 6LN the RPI header is removed=C2=A0=
</pre><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0and the packet processed.</span>=C2=A0</div><div><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 6.2.3<br>
<br>
Why does the 6LBR not remove headers in the the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI)(2) case?<=
br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-ee015=
e49-7fff-b6c8-37dc-691d3349e72c"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;m=
argin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;=
font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap=
">&lt;author&gt; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:transparent;font-var=
iant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;=
white-space:pre-wrap">Fixed: added in the table for the 6LBR: &lt;c&gt;IPv6=
-in-IPv6(RPI)(1)</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:transparent;font-weig=
ht:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-=
align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">(2)</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-col=
or:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;v=
ertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/c&gt;</span></p><p dir=
=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255=
,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br =
class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid r=
gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 6.2.4<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not sure how to interpret the Table.=C2=A0 Does the IPv6 node remov=
e the<br>
RPI or ignore it?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-int=
ernal-guid-11fbf9a4-7fff-2fd8-1c34-8349a717d3d9"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"li=
ne-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant=
-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;whit=
e-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:trans=
parent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:=
normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Answer: The IPv6 node =
removes the header and does not process the RPI, the node ignores the RPI (=
this is normal IPv6 INPUT packet processing when a packet arrives at the de=
stination, processing extension headers until the Upper Layer Protocol is r=
eached).</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;=
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e=
ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author=
&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 6.3.1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0While the 6LR nodes will update the RPI, no node needs to add =
or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0remove the RPI, so no IPv6-in-IPv6 headers are necessary.=C2=
=A0 This may<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be done regardless of where the destination is, as the include=
d RPI<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0will be ignored by the receiver.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not sure what variation in the receiver location this is supposed t=
o<br>
allow, given that we have already specified it to be a Raf in the same<br>
RPL Domain.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-varia=
nt-east-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;autho=
r&gt;</span><span style=3D"background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeri=
c:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:=
pre-wrap">Deleted this part: =E2=80=9CThis may be done regardless of where =
the destination is, as the included RPI will be ignored by the receiver.=E2=
=80=9D</span><span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-a=
sian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(=
255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</=
span></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x">
Section 6.3.4<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--&gt; 6LR_1--&gt; 6LR_ia --&gt; 6=
LR_id --&gt; not-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 dst)<br>
<br>
Is the root considered to be a 6LR_ia or a 6LR_id?<br></blockquote><div><br=
></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed, root =
added to the table &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that this flow is identical to Section 6.3.3, except for =
where<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is inserted.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m still not seeing a difference in where the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is<b=
r>
inserted.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,=
0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre=
-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed, we deleted that sentence &lt;/author&gt;</span>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 7<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The following table (Figure 8) summarizes what headers are nee=
ded in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the following scenarios, and indicates when the RPI, RH3 and I=
Pv6-in-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 header are to be inserted.=C2=A0 There are these possible=
 situations:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0target destination address possible (indicated by &quot;tgt&qu=
ot;), to a 6LR,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to a 6LN or to the root.=C2=A0 In cases where no IPv6-in-IPv6 =
header is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0needed, the column states as &quot;No&quot;.<br>
<br>
&quot;There are these possible situations&quot; seems overly broad; if I<br=
>
understand correctly, it is discussing only the last (&quot;v6-in-v6 dst&qu=
ot;)<br>
column&#39;s possible values.<br>
<br>
Is the &quot;to a 6LR&quot; case always going to be &quot;the last 6LR befo=
re the 6LN<br>
or 6LBR&quot;?=C2=A0 It may be worth a few words to clarify that.<br></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-033a6de5-7fff-6c=
66-b7af-cdecad928a02"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0=
pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-varian=
t-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;autho=
r&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&q=
uot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric=
:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:=
pre-wrap">Corrected to: </span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38=
;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:transpare=
nt;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-alig=
n:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Old: </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:tra=
nsparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertica=
l-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">There are these possible situations:=
 target destination address possible (indicated by &quot;tgt&quot;), to a 6=
LR, to a 6LN or to the root.</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:=
1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transpare=
nt;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-alig=
n:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-h=
eight:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color=
:transparent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-=
asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">New: It depicts =
the target destination address possible (indicated by &quot;tgt&quot;), to =
a 6LR (parent of a 6LN), to a 6LN or to the root.</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);f=
ont-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D=
"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The leaf can be a router 6LR or a host, both indicated as 6LN<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Figure 3).=C2=A0 In the Figure the (1) indicates a 6tisch cas=
e [RFC8180],<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0where the instanceID portion of the RPI header may still be ne=
eded to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0pick an appropriate priority or channel at each hop.<br>
<br>
This wording seems to imply that it is possible to cherry-pick just the<br>
instanceID portion of the RPI header without (e.g.) the SenderRank,<br>
which does not match my understanding of what is possible.=C2=A0 Perhaps<br=
>
&quot;where the RPI header may still be needed for the instanceID to be<br>
available for priority/channel selection at each hop&quot; is better wordin=
g?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-f63e=
39b5-7fff-3e86-8fa1-184be5e42913"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;=
margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal=
;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wra=
p">&lt;author&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);background-color:transparent;font-wei=
ght:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Corrected as suggested in the text: <=
/span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">The leaf can be =
a router 6LR or a host, both indicated as 6LN</span></p><pre class=3D"gmail=
-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;bre=
ak-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">   (Figure 3).  In the Figure the (1) indi=
cates a 6tisch case [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8180" title=
=3D"&quot;Minimal IPv6 over the TSCH Mode of IEEE 802.15.4e (6TiSCH) Config=
uration&quot;">RFC8180</a>],
   where the RPI header may still be needed for the instanceID to be
   available for priority/channel selection at each hop.
</pre><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D=
"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-vari=
ant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;w=
hite-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-A=
pple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 7.1.2<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The destination is known to RPL-aware because, the root knows =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0whole topology in non-storing mode.<br>
<br>
nits: &quot;to be&quot;, and no comma is needed.<br></blockquote><div>=C2=
=A0</div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/=
author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex">
<br>
Section 7.1.3<br>
<br>
I think I would prefer if the body text mentioned that an RPI is<br>
optionally added (for the 6tisch case where the instanceID is needed).<br><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;aut=
hor&gt; we deleted the optionality of RPI &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I&#39;m not sure that I understand why the RPI is marked as being modified<=
br>
by the 6LR_i in this case but not in Section 7.1.2.<br></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/a=
uthor&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
<br>
Table 15 should probably keep the parentheses around &quot;(opt: RPI)&quot;=
 in the<br>
column for the ~Raf.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;whit=
e-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 7.2.4<br>
<br>
It seems that Table 20 could coalesce the 6LR_1 column into the 6LR_i<br>
column, and instead break out a 6LR_n column as is done in (e.g.)<br>
Section 7.1.3.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);fon=
t-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt=
;author&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 7.3.1<br>
<br>
The conventions established previously in this document would seem to<br>
have us include the &quot;IPv6-in-IPV6()&quot; indicator in the &quot;Modif=
ied headers&quot;<br>
row.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&=
quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt=
;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 7.3.2<br>
<br>
I think the Table 22 column header is better as 6LR_ia than 6LR_1.<br>
It would be nice to be able to distinguish the generic 6LR_id and 6LR_m<br>
cases, but I&#39;m not sure if there&#39;s enough horizontal space for that=
.<br>
Some textual discussion in the Table legend would be very helpful,<br>
though.<br></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-famil=
y:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author=
&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 7.3.3<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6) --&gt; 6LR_ia --&gt; root (6LBR) --&g=
t; 6LR_id --&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A06LN<br>
<br>
Is there a separate 6LR_1 step to be mentioned here?<br>
<br>
It&#39;s unclear if there&#39;s enough room for it in Table 23, but presuma=
bly<br>
the generic 6LR_ia are modifying the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI_1) headers?<br></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&g=
t;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 7.3.4<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--&gt; 6LR_ia --&gt; root (6LBR) -=
-&gt; 6LR_id --&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not-RPL-aware (IPv6 dst)<br>
<br>
Are there separate 6LR_1 and 6LR_m steps to mention here?<br>
<br>
As for 7.3.3, Table 24 seems to be missing some columns for intermediate<br=
>
6LRs that merely modify the RPI headers, though I recognize space<br>
concerns.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,=
0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre=
-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 8<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The above case occurs whenever traffic originates from the out=
side<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the LLN (the &quot;Internet&quot; cases above), and non-storin=
g mode is used.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In non-storing mode, the RPL root knows the exact topology (as=
 it<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0must be create the RH3 header), and therefore knows what the 6=
LR<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to the leaf --- the 6LR_n.<br>
<br>
nit: &quot;what the 6LR prior to the leaf is&quot; or &quot;which 6LR is im=
mediately<br>
prior to the leaf&quot; or similar<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><spa=
n style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-=
size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertic=
al-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; </span><span style=
=3D"background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e=
ast-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color=
:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Added in Text=
: For example, in Figure 5, node E is the 6LR prior to the leaf node G, or =
node C is the 6LR prior to the leaf node J.</span><span style=3D"font-varia=
nt-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:baseline;whi=
te-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 9<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0During bootstrapping the node get the DIO with the information=
 of RPL<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Option Type, indicating the new RPI in the DODAG Configuration=
 Option<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Flag.=C2=A0 The DODAG root is in charge to configure the curre=
nt network<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to the new value, through DIO messages and when all the nodes =
are set<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with the new value.=C2=A0 [...]<br>
<br>
Perhaps a reminder of how &quot;all the nodes are set with the new value&qu=
ot; is<br>
detected by the root would be helpful.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
<span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);ve=
rtical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; </span><span sty=
le=3D"background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant=
-east-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Added in Text: =
The DODAG Configuration option is contained in a RPL DIO message, which con=
tains a unique DTSN counter.=C2=A0 The leaf nodes respond to this message w=
ith DAO messages containing the same DTSN.  This is a normal part of RPL ro=
uting; the RPL root therefore knows when the updated DODAG Configuration Op=
tion has been seen by all nodes.</span><span style=3D"background-color:tran=
sparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:7=
00;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style=3D"fon=
t-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:10.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);vertical-align:basel=
ine;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The migration path to the change from 0x63 to 0x23 in networks=
 that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0accepts both values is changed when the DIO is sent with the f=
lag<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0indicating the new RPI value.=C2=A0 Namely, it remains at 0x63=
 until it is<br>
<br>
nit: How is it the *migration path* that is changed when the DIO with<br>
flag is sent?=C2=A0 That seems to be making the migration happen, but the<b=
r>
path is the same as it ever was.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size=
:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed, changed to migration pr=
ocedure &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<br>
Section 11<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0While a typical LLN may be a very poor origin for attack traff=
ic (as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the networks tend to be very slow, and the nodes often have ve=
ry low<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0duty cycles) given enough nodes, they could still have a signi=
ficant<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0impact, particularly if the attack was on another LLN!=C2=A0 A=
dditionally,<br>
<br>
I agree with the secdir reviewer that &quot;target of the attack was anothe=
r<br>
LLN!&quot; (or similar) would be clearer.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;=
</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0With the above precautions, an attack using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunne=
ls will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be by a node within the LLN on another node within the LLN.=C2=
=A0 Such an<br>
<br>
nit: I&#39;d suggest s/will be/can only be/ to emphasize the restrictive<br=
>
nature of the precautions.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5=
pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The RH3 header usage described here can be abused in equivalen=
t ways<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with an IPv6-in-IPv6 header to add the needed RH3 header.=C2=
=A0 As such,<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t think I understand what this is trying to say.=C2=A0 What are t=
he<br>
things that are equivalent?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmai=
l-docs-internal-guid-79f4a543-7fff-4717-777c-624ecd8f98dd"><p dir=3D"ltr" s=
tyle=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);fo=
nt-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:bas=
eline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; added:=E2=80=9D equivalent (to</=
span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bot=
tom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:=
normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0disguise =
the origin of traffic and attack other nodes) =E2=80=9C</span></p><p dir=3D=
"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,=
255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-al=
ign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br cl=
ass=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The RPI header, if permitted to enter the LLN, could be used b=
y an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attacker to change the priority of a packet by selecting a dif=
ferent<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPLInstanceID, perhaps one with a higher energy cost, for inst=
ance.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0It could also be that not all nodes are reachable in an LLN us=
ing the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0default instanceID, but a change of instanceID would permit an=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attacker to bypass such filtering.=C2=A0 Like the RH3, a RPI h=
eader is to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be inserted by the RPL root on traffic entering the LLN by fir=
st<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0inserting an IPv6-in-IPv6 header.=C2=A0 The attacker&#39;s RPI=
 header<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0therefore will not be seen by the network.=C2=A0 Upon reaching=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination node the RPI header has no further meaning and is =
just<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0skipped; the presence of a second RPI header will have no mean=
ing to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the end node as the packet has already been identified as bein=
g at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it&#39;s final destination.<br>
<br>
This text does not really convince me that it considers the non-storing<br>
case where a packet is directed to a non-6LR-aware leaf, and the last<br>
6LR removes the IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation prior to sending the packet<br>
on to the IPv6 node.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;whit=
e-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; This is a good point, thank you for observ=
ing this. You are right that the 6LR that removes the outer IP/RH3/RPI will=
 then possibly be mistaken by the inner RPI inserted by the attacker.=C2=A0=
 Do you think it is enough to declare that further RPI processing must be s=
kipped by such a final router?  we do not think that we have a use case for=
 a legitimate RPI header here. &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Nodes within the LLN can use the IPv6-in-IPv6 mechanism to mou=
nt an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack on another part of the LLN, while disguising the origin=
 of the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack.=C2=A0 The mechanism can even be abused to make it appe=
ar that the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack is coming from outside the LLN, and unless countered, t=
his<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0could be used to mount a Distributed Denial Of Service attack =
upon<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0nodes elsewhere in the Internet.=C2=A0 See [DDOS-KREBS] for an=
 example of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0such attacks already seen in the real world.<br>
<br>
It&#39;s not really clear to me that [DDOS-KREBS] is illustrative of<br>
IPv6-in-IPv6 spoofing from a LLN.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=
=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-78efef66-7fff-ff74-b504-413a3b087f76"><p dir=
=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255=
,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; DDOS-KREBS is an examp=
le of high-bandwidth attacks being constructed from millions of relatively =
low-bandwidth senders. It is not an IPv6-in-IPv6 spoofing attack, as the sc=
ript kiddies are as yet, IPv6-ignorant and LLNs are uncommon.</span></p><p =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(=
255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;verti=
cal-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><=
br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If an attack comes from inside of LLN, it can be alleviated wi=
th SAVI<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Source Address Validation Improvement) using [RFC8505] with<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-6lo-ap-nd].=C2=A0 The attacker will not be able to s=
ource with<br>
<br>
nit: is &quot;source with&quot; a common term?<br></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&q=
uot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; replaced by =E2=
=80=9Csource traffic=E2=80=9D &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0an address that is not registered, and the registration checks=
 for<br>
<br>
nit: &quot;registration process&quot;?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
<span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;fon=
t-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed &lt;/author&gt;</s=
pan>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0topological correctness.=C2=A0 Notice that there is an L2 auth=
entication<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in most of the cases.=C2=A0 If an attack comes from outside LL=
N IPv6-in-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 can be used to hide inner routing headers, but RH3 is pro=
tected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by its definition.<br>
<br>
Protected from what?=C2=A0 How?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"=
gmail-docs-internal-guid-82b9ee93-7fff-88ce-c74e-3256a7eed342"><p dir=3D"lt=
r" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,25=
5);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-alig=
n:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; </span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" s=
tyle=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);fo=
nt-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:bas=
eline;white-space:pre-wrap">Old text: </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:tra=
nsparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertica=
l-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">but RH3 is protected by its definiti=
on.</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;m=
argin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-ea=
st-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">new text: </s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font=
-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">bu=
t by construction, the RH3 can typically only address nodes within the LLN.=
=C2=A0 That is, a RH3 with a CmprI less than 8 , should be considered an at=
tack (see RFC6554, section 3).</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-heigh=
t:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric=
:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:=
pre-wrap"> &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interc=
hange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Nodes outside of the LLN will need to pass IPv6-in-IPv6 traffi=
c<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0through the RPL root to perform this attack.=C2=A0 To counter,=
 the RPL<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0root SHOULD either restrict ingress of IPv6-in-IPv6 packets (t=
he<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0simpler solution), or it SHOULD do a deep packet inspection wh=
erein<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it walks the IP header extension chain until it can inspect th=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0upper-layer-payload as described in [RFC7045].=C2=A0 In partic=
ular, the<br>
<br>
RFC 7045 does not use the term &quot;deep packet inspection&quot;, that ter=
m has<br>
negative connotations for many people, and it&#39;s not entirely clear that=
<br>
it&#39;s the right term to describe the process of fully parsing the IPv6<b=
r>
headers, either.<br>
<br></blockquote><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;=
margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> &lt;a=
uthor&gt; corrected to: &quot;... or it SHOULD walk the IP header extension=
 chain</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margi=
n-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">   until it=
 can inspect the upper-layer-payload as described in=C2=A0</pre><div><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[</span><a href=
=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7045" title=3D"&quot;Transmission and Pr=
ocessing of IPv6 Extension Headers&quot;" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">RFC=
7045</a><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">]...&quot;</sp=
an>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:=
rgb(0,0,0)">&lt;/author&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rg=
b(0,0,0)"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Man=
y thanks again for the detailed review</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" st=
yle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pa=
ge;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(=
0,0,0)">Best regards,</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,=
0)"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Ines, Mic=
hael and Pascal.</pre></div></div></div>

--000000000000df8cc9058911453c--


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Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-28.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Using RPL Option Type, Routing Header for Source Routes and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation in the RPL Data Plane
        Authors         : Maria Ines Robles
                          Michael C. Richardson
                          Pascal Thubert
	Filename        : draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-28.txt
	Pages           : 54
	Date            : 2019-05-17

Abstract:
   This document looks at different data flows through LLN (Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) where RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) is used to establish routing.  The document
   enumerates the cases where RFC 6553 (RPL Option Type), RFC 6554
   (Routing Header for Source Routes) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation is
   required in data plane.  This analysis provides the basis on which to
   design efficient compression of these headers.  This document updates
   RFC 6553 adding a change to the RPL Option Type.  Additionally, this
   document updates RFC 6550 defining a flag in the DIO Configuration
   Option to indicate about this change and updates RFC8138 as well to
   consider the new Option Type when the RPL Option is decompressed.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-28
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-28

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-28


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 11:57:12 +0300
Message-ID: <CAP+sJUdifWLNt6UWy6LrbreLB22GBdvWxKeCDkZhKBn8d1m=+Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org>,  Peter Van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>,  roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll]  =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_Discuss_on_draft-ietf-roll?= =?utf-8?q?-useofrplinfo-25=3A_=28with_DISCUSS_and_COMMENT=29?=
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Hi Eric,

Thank you, we just updated a new version with the suggested changes.

Have a nice day,

Ines, Michael and Pascal

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:03 AM Eric Vyncke (evyncke) <evyncke@cisco.com>
wrote:

> Ines, Michel and Pascal
>
>
>
> Thank you for the clarifications and the other changes.
>
>
>
> About nits N8), I am suggesting indeed to avoid a 2nd explanation about
> the drop/no-drop behavior in section 5. So, I suggest to remove 3
> paragraphs =3D=3D all the text from =E2=80=9CHowever, unlike [RFC6553],=
=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CSecurity
> Considerations sections Section 11 for further details.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Thank you again for this hard work
>
>
>
> -=C3=A9ric
>
>
>
> *From: *Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
> *Date: *Friday, 17 May 2019 at 01:29
> *To: *Eric Vyncke <evyncke@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org" <
> draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org>, Peter Van der Stok <
> consultancy@vanderstok.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>,
> roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: =C3=89ric Vyncke's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo=
-25:
> (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
>
>
> Hi =C3=89ric,
>
>
>
> Many thanks for your review. We have submitted a new document with
> corrections. Please find answers in-line below.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 9:13 AM =C3=89ric Vyncke via Datatracker <
> noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The document is interesting and is about an interesting twist of behavior
> in
> the light of RFC 8200 new behavior with respect to Hop-by-hop extension
> header.
>
> But, I am balloting a DISCUSS for two reasons:
>
> 1) in section 3.1,  I am failing to understand the link between RFC8200 H=
bH
> behavior and why the RPI code needs to be changed to 0x23.  =3D> a clear
> explanation is required on why the option 0x23 is linked to RFC 8200: I
> fail to
> understand the authors' logic. At first sight, with the new RFC8200 HbH
> handling, there is no need to change the RPI code from 0x63 as most route=
rs
> will ignore HbH anyway.
>
>
>
> <author> New text was added in this section for clarifications purposes
> </author>
>
>
> 2) the document deserves a better text as there are too many nits,
> unexpanded
> acronyms, ... the reader has hard time to understand the document.
>
>
>
> <author> Nits and tables were fixed </author>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Again, the content is useful but need some more work.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Comments
> --------
>
> C1) Section 1, having a date or short description of the interim meeting
> could
> be useful here.
>
> <author> that text was removed, new text was added
>
>
>
> New Text: The ROLL WG analysized how [RFC2460
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2460>] rules apply to storing and non-
>
>    storing use of RPL.  The result was 24 data plane use cases.  They
>
>    are exhaustively outlined here in order to be completely unambiguous.
>
>    During the processing of this document, new rules were published as
>
>    [RFC8200 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8200>], and this document was=
 updated to reflect the normative
>
>    changes in that document.
>
> </author>
>
>
> C2) Section 2, the term "Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers" is confusing at
> first
> reading, what about "Link IPv6-in-IPv6 header" ? or "Single link
> IPv6-in-IPv6
> header" ? Hop-by-hop has a specific meaning in IPv6. This term is not als=
o
> used
> consistenly in the document.
>
>
>
> <author> changed to Hop-by-hop re-encapsulation </author>
>
>
> C3) section 3.2 how does a network node would understand / learn that it
> is in
> "0x23 mode" ? It should provide a hint to section 3.3 or swap section 3.2
> and
> 3.3 to make the task easier for the reader.
>
>
>
> <author> sections were swapped </author>
>
>
> C4) section 3.3 if the decompression is also to 0x23 or 0x63, then what i=
s
> the
> compressor behavior when receiving the other code?
>
> <author> A node compress the RPL RPI option type that is currently active
> </author>
>
>
> C5) the introduction to RPL in section 4 after the topology is nice and
> concise
> but it is either too late in the document or useless (I prefer the former=
,
> for
> example in section 2).
>
> <author> fixed </author>
>
>
> C6) the code 0x23 is assumed everywhere but AFAIK there is no guarantee
> that
> IANA will use this code (even if this is the logical choice)
>
> <author> we got early allocation </author>
>
>
> C7) it is assumed that the Internet has moved to RFC8200 and does not dro=
p
> packets with HbH... "will not be discarded" I would prefer to have a
> disclaimer
> on the current sad state of the Internet
>
> <author>Prior to this document, packets would be dropped.  Someone who
> wants to push LLN traffic across the Internet already had to deal with
> either configuring RPI to be accepted. Now, they can do that, or deploy
> RFC8200. <author>
>
>
>
> C8) section 5, while I am not an expert in RPL, I wonder whether the
> sentence
> "there can be no loops by construction" is true even in transient states =
?
>
>
>
> <author> loops are detected by RPI header</author>
>
>
> C9) section 6, is there any reason why the 'must' and 'root' values are n=
ot
> specified while 'hop' and others are ?
>
>
>
> <author>clarification added</author>
>
>
> C10) Section 6.1.1 title is "SM: Example of Flow from RPL-aware-leaf to
> root"
> while SM has NOT been specified only RPL-SM.
>
>
>
> <author>fixed</author>
>
>
> C11) Section 7, AFAIK RPL has been designed to be confined in one domain,
> if I
> am not mistaken, then extending RPL to work over the Internet would requi=
re
> some considerations early in this document (even if IPv6-in-IPv6 should
> clear
> the security issues of RH3 as discussed in the security section).
>
>
>
> <author>RPL can not work across the Internet, it is a routing protocol,
> and requires adjacencies. Connecting two networks via IP packets is just
> classic =E2=80=9CInter=E2=80=9Dnet.  </author>
>
>
> C12) the 2nd paragraph of section 9 is probably useless as it is a snapsh=
ot
> taken in 2018/2019 which may not be the case anymore in a couple of years
>
>
>
> <author> paragraph deleted</author>
>
>
> Nits
> ----
>
> N1) in section 1, this is a unexpected abbreviation < "RPL option" (RPI) =
>
>
>
>
> <author>fixed</author>
>
>
> N2) in section 2, another unexpected abbreviation < RPL-aware-leaf (Raf) =
>
>
>
>
>  <author> we think that it is a good abbreviation to indicate about leaf,
> take the "f" instead of the l  <author>
>
>
> N3) section 3.1, inconsistent use of quotes around 01 and 1 in the same
> section
>
>
>
> <author> could you please clarify, we dont understand what is wrong with
> that. </author>
>
>
> N4) section 4, acronyms such 6LR are here explained while section 2
> referred to
> an external document... perhaps worth augmenting section 2 and removing t=
he
> description in section 4 ?
>
>
>
>  <author> fixed </author>
>
>
> N5) section 4, s/in non-storing (RPL-NSM)/in non-storing mode (RPL-NSM)/
>
>  <author> fixed </author>
>
>
> N6) section 5 does not use the previously introduced abbreviations... thi=
s
> I-D
> looks like a patchwork (different authors -- and I made multiple times th=
e
> same
> 'mistake' ;-) )
>
>
>
>  <author> fixed </author>
>
>
> N7) section 5 s/Extensions may not be added/Extensions Headers may not be
> added/
>
>
>
>  <author> fixed </author>
>
>
> N8) section 5 repeat the use of 01 in the option and its explanation =3D>
> remove
> this part
>
>
>
> <author> However, unlike [RFC6553], the Hop-by-Hop Option Header used for
> the
>
>   RPI artifact has the first two bits set to '00'.  This means that the
>
>   RPI artifact will be ignored when received by a host or router that
>
>   does not understand that option ( Section 4.2 [RFC8200]).
>
>      =E2=87=92 is it this part you want us to remove? </author>
>
>
>
>
>
> N9) section 5 s/to add to remove/to add and remove/ ?
>
>  <author> fixed </author>
>
>
> N10) section 6, s/It indicate/It indicates/
>
>  <author> fixed </author>
>
>
> N11) section 6, s/hop by hop/hop-by-hop/
>
>  <author> fixed </author>
>
>
>
> Many Thanks again,
>
>
>
> Ines, Michael and Pascal
>

--000000000000336afc05891192ac
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Eric,<div><br></div><div>Thank you, we just updated a n=
ew version with the suggested changes.</div><div><br></div><div>Have a nice=
 day,</div><div><br></div><div>Ines, Michael and Pascal</div></div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 17=
, 2019 at 9:03 AM Eric Vyncke (evyncke) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:evyncke@cisco=
.com">evyncke@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-1186344772308218385WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ines, Michel and Pascal<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for the clarifications and the other chang=
es.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">About nits N8), I am suggesting indeed to avoid a 2<=
sup>nd</sup> explanation about the drop/no-drop behavior in section 5. So, =
I suggest to remove 3 paragraphs =3D=3D all the text from =E2=80=9CHowever,=
 unlike [RFC6553],=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CSecurity Considerations
 sections Section 11 for further details.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you again for this hard work<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-=C3=A9ric<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Ines Robles &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:mariainesrobles@googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank">mariainesrob=
les@googlemail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 17 May 2019 at 01:29<br>
<b>To: </b>Eric Vyncke &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:evyncke@cisco.com" target=3D"_=
blank">evyncke@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>The IESG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
iesg@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org</a>&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Peter Van der Stok &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:consultancy@vanderstok.org" target=3D"_blank">consultanc=
y@vanderstok.org</a>&gt;, Alvaro Retana &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">aretana.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, roll-chairs &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:roll-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll-chairs@iet=
f.org</a>&gt;, roll &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: =C3=89ric Vyncke&#39;s Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useof=
rplinfo-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">Hi=C2=A0=C3=89ric, <u></u=
><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">Many thanks for your revi=
ew. We have submitted a new document with corrections. Please find answers =
in-line below.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 9:=
13 AM =C3=89ric Vyncke via Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">-------------------------=
---------------------------------------------<br>
DISCUSS:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
The document is interesting and is about an interesting twist of behavior i=
n<br>
the light of RFC 8200 new behavior with respect to Hop-by-hop extension hea=
der.<br>
<br>
But, I am balloting a DISCUSS for two reasons:<br>
<br>
1) in section 3.1,=C2=A0 I am failing to understand the link between RFC820=
0 HbH<br>
behavior and why the RPI code needs to be changed to 0x23.=C2=A0 =3D&gt; a =
clear<br>
explanation is required on why the option 0x23 is linked to RFC 8200: I fai=
l to<br>
understand the authors&#39; logic. At first sight, with the new RFC8200 HbH=
<br>
handling, there is no need to change the RPI code from 0x63 as most routers=
<br>
will ignore HbH anyway.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt; Ne=
w text was added in this section for clarifications purposes &lt;/author&gt=
;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
2) the document deserves a better text as there are too many nits, unexpand=
ed<br>
acronyms, ... the reader has hard time to understand the document.<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-left:36pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:f=
uchsia">&lt;author&gt; Nits and tables were fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
Again, the content is useful but need some more work.<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Comments<br>
--------<br>
<br>
C1) Section 1, having a date or short description of the interim meeting co=
uld<br>
be useful here.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt; th=
at text was removed, new text was added
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia"><br>
<br>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">New Text:
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:black">The ROLL WG analysized ho=
w [</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2460" title=3D"&quot;In=
ternet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification&quot;" target=3D"_blank"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt">RFC2460</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t;color:black">]
 rules apply to storing and non-</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt;break-before:page"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">=C2=A0=C2=A0 storing use of RPL.=C2=A0 The result was 24 data plane use =
cases.=C2=A0 They<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 ar=
e exhaustively outlined here in order to be completely unambiguous.<u></u><=
u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Du=
ring the processing of this document, new rules were published as<u></u><u>=
</u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [<=
a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8200" title=3D"&quot;Internet Prot=
ocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC8200</a>],=
 and this document was updated to reflect the normative<u></u><u></u></span=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 ch=
anges in that document.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</=
span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
C2) Section 2, the term &quot;Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers&quot; is conf=
using at first<br>
reading, what about &quot;Link IPv6-in-IPv6 header&quot; ? or &quot;Single =
link IPv6-in-IPv6<br>
header&quot; ? Hop-by-hop has a specific meaning in IPv6. This term is not =
also used<br>
consistenly in the document.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt; ch=
anged to
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;co=
lor:fuchsia">Hop-by-hop re-encapsulation
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
C3) section 3.2 how does a network node would understand / learn that it is=
 in<br>
&quot;0x23 mode&quot; ? It should provide a hint to section 3.3 or swap sec=
tion 3.2 and<br>
3.3 to make the task easier for the reader.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt; se=
ctions were swapped</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
C4) section 3.3 if the decompression is also to 0x23 or 0x63, then what is =
the<br>
compressor behavior when receiving the other code?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;co=
lor:fuchsia">A node compress the RPL RPI option type that is currently acti=
ve
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
C5) the introduction to RPL in section 4 after the topology is nice and con=
cise<br>
but it is either too late in the document or useless (I prefer the former, =
for<br>
example in section 2).<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt; fi=
xed</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
;color:fuchsia">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
C6) the code 0x23 is assumed everywhere but AFAIK there is no guarantee tha=
t<br>
IANA will use this code (even if this is the logical choice)<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt; we=
 got early allocation</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-=
left:36pt">
<br>
C7) it is assumed that the Internet has moved to RFC8200 and does not drop<=
br>
packets with HbH... &quot;will not be discarded&quot; I would prefer to hav=
e a disclaimer<br>
on the current sad state of the Internet<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt;</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;col=
or:black">Prior to this document, packets would be dropped.=C2=A0 Someone
 who wants to push LLN traffic across the Internet already had to deal with=
 either configuring RPI to be accepted. Now, they can do that, or deploy RF=
C8200.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">C8) section 5, while I am=
 not an expert in RPL, I wonder whether the sentence<br>
&quot;there can be no loops by construction&quot; is true even in transient=
 states ?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt; lo=
ops are detected by RPI header&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
C9) section 6, is there any reason why the &#39;must&#39; and &#39;root&#39=
; values are not<br>
specified while &#39;hop&#39; and others are ?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt;cla=
rification added&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
C10) Section 6.1.1 title is &quot;SM: Example of Flow from RPL-aware-leaf t=
o root&quot;<br>
while SM has NOT been specified only RPL-SM.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt;fix=
ed&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
C11) Section 7, AFAIK RPL has been designed to be confined in one domain, i=
f I<br>
am not mistaken, then extending RPL to work over the Internet would require=
<br>
some considerations early in this document (even if IPv6-in-IPv6 should cle=
ar<br>
the security issues of RH3 as discussed in the security section).<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt;</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;col=
or:black">RPL can not work across the Internet, it is a routing
 protocol, and requires adjacencies. Connecting two networks via IP packets=
 is just classic =E2=80=9CInter=E2=80=9Dnet.</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia"> &lt;/auth=
or&gt;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
C12) the 2nd paragraph of section 9 is probably useless as it is a snapshot=
<br>
taken in 2018/2019 which may not be the case anymore in a couple of years<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt;</s=
pan>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:f=
uchsia">paragraph deleted&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
Nits<br>
----<br>
<br>
N1) in section 1, this is a unexpected abbreviation &lt; &quot;RPL option&q=
uot; (RPI) &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt;fix=
ed&lt;/author&gt;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
N2) in section 2, another unexpected abbreviation &lt; RPL-aware-leaf (Raf)=
 &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<span style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&=
gt; we think that it is a good abbreviation to indicate about leaf, take th=
e &quot;f&quot; instead of the l
</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
N3) section 3.1, inconsistent use of quotes around 01 and 1 in the same sec=
tion<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&gt; co=
uld you please clarify, we dont understand what is wrong with that. &lt;/au=
thor&gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
N4) section 4, acronyms such 6LR are here explained while section 2 referre=
d to<br>
an external document... perhaps worth augmenting section 2 and removing the=
<br>
description in section 4 ?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<span style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&=
gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;
</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
N5) section 4, s/in non-storing (RPL-NSM)/in non-storing mode (RPL-NSM)/<u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<span style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&=
gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
N6) section 5 does not use the previously introduced abbreviations... this =
I-D<br>
looks like a patchwork (different authors -- and I made multiple times the =
same<br>
&#39;mistake&#39; ;-) )<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<span style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&=
gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
N7) section 5 s/Extensions may not be added/Extensions Headers may not be a=
dded/<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<span style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&=
gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
N8) section 5 repeat the use of 01 in the option and its explanation =3D&gt=
; remove<br>
this part<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:16pt;margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:f=
uchsia">&lt;author&gt; </span>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack">However, unlike [RFC6553], the Hop-by-Hop Option Header used for the<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:16pt;margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack">=C2=A0=C2=A0RPI artifact has the first two bits set to &#39;00&#39;.=
=C2=A0 This means that the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:16pt;margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack">=C2=A0=C2=A0RPI artifact will be ignored when received by a host or r=
outer that</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:16pt;margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack">=C2=A0=C2=A0does not understand that option ( Section 4.2 [RFC8200]).=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:16pt;margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:&quot;Cambria Math&quot;,serif;color:black">=E2=87=92</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:blac=
k"> is it this part you want
 us to remove? </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">N9) section 5 s/to add to=
 remove/to add and remove/ ?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<span style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&=
gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
N10) section 6, s/It indicate/It indicates/<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<span style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&=
gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><br>
N11) section 6, s/hop by hop/hop-by-hop/<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<span style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;author&=
gt; fixed</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:fuchsia">&lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">Many Thanks again,<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">Ines, Michael and Pascal=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 11:59:38 +0300
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To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org,  Peter Van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>,  roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Alissa,

Thank you for your review. We have fixed them (deleted them) in the new
version.

Have a nice day,

Ines, Michael and Pascal.

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 9:52 PM Alissa Cooper via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> = Section 1 =
>
> "An interim meeting went through the 24 cases defined here to discover
>    if there were any shortcuts, and this document is the result of that
>    discussion."
>
> These details seem unnecessary to include in an archival document.
>
> = Section 3.1 =
>
> "[RFCXXXX] represents this document."
>
> This is not necessary to include.
>
> = Section 9 =
>
> "Related to the deployment of RPL, there are no known multivendor
>    deployments outside of the research groups!  All known deployments of
>    RPL are in market verticals, with a single vendor providing all
>    components.  Research groups typically are using Contiki, RiotOS, or
>    OpenWSN, and these are easily adapted to 0x23 functionality."
>
> It seems like this text should be dropped or marked for removal once the
> RFC is
> published, since it will likely become out-of-date soon enough.
>
>
>

--000000000000e1d0160589119ad3
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Alissa,</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for you=
r review. We have fixed them (deleted them) in the new version.=C2=A0</div>=
<div><br></div><div>Have a=C2=A0nice day,</div><div><br></div><div>Ines, Mi=
chael and Pascal.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 9:52 PM Alissa Cooper via Datatrac=
ker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">---------------=
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
=3D Section 1 =3D<br>
<br>
&quot;An interim meeting went through the 24 cases defined here to discover=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0if there were any shortcuts, and this document is the result o=
f that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0discussion.&quot;<br>
<br>
These details seem unnecessary to include in an archival document.<br>
<br>
=3D Section 3.1 =3D<br>
<br>
&quot;[RFCXXXX] represents this document.&quot;<br>
<br>
This is not necessary to include.<br>
<br>
=3D Section 9 =3D<br>
<br>
&quot;Related to the deployment of RPL, there are no known multivendor<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0deployments outside of the research groups!=C2=A0 All known de=
ployments of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL are in market verticals, with a single vendor providing al=
l<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0components.=C2=A0 Research groups typically are using Contiki,=
 RiotOS, or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OpenWSN, and these are easily adapted to 0x23 functionality.&q=
uot;<br>
<br>
It seems like this text should be dropped or marked for removal once the RF=
C is<br>
published, since it will likely become out-of-date soon enough.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000e1d0160589119ad3--


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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 12:04:38 +0300
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To: warren@kumari.net
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Warren,

Thank you for your review.

We have addressed the Roman's discuss and we have added clarification about
IPsec in the new version.

Best regards,

Ines, Michael and Pascal


> Warren KumariNo Objection
>> Comment (2019-05-01 for -25)
>>
>> I strongly support Roman's DISCUSS - the scaling *seems* like it would end poorly, and I'm a bit confused about what exactly is being recommended.
>> I'm not 100% sure I understand how the deployment will actually occur, and so perhaps the IPSEC scaling doesn't cause an issue?
>>
>>
>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Hi Warren,</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Thank you for your review.</div><div><br></div><div>We have addre=
ssed the Roman&#39;s discuss and we have added clarification about IPsec in=
 the new version.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Ines, Michael and Pascal</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><h4 class=3D"gmail-anchor-t=
arget" id=3D"gmail-warren-kumari" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-famil=
y:&quot;PT Sans Caption&quot;,sans-serif;font-weight:400;line-height:1.1;ma=
rgin-top:10.5px;margin-bottom:10.5px;font-size:18px">Warren Kumari<span cla=
ss=3D"gmail-pull-right" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;float:right"><span c=
lass=3D"gmail-label gmail-label-pass" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;backgr=
ound-color:rgb(171,214,127);display:inline;padding:0.2em 0.6em 0.3em;font-s=
ize:13.5px;font-weight:700;line-height:1;color:rgb(255,255,255);text-align:=
center;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:baseline;border-radius:0.25em">No =
Objection</span></span></h4><div class=3D"gmail-panel gmail-panel-pass" sty=
le=3D"box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid rgb(171,214,127);margin-bottom=
:21px;border-radius:4px;font-family:&quot;PT Serif&quot;,Palatino,&quot;Neu=
e Swift&quot;,serif;font-size:15px"><div class=3D"gmail-panel-heading" styl=
e=3D"box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 15px;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(17=
1,214,127);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;color:rgb=
(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(222,242,201);border-top-color:rgb(171,214,127)=
;border-right-color:rgb(171,214,127);border-left-color:rgb(171,214,127)"><h=
5 class=3D"gmail-panel-title" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-family:&q=
uot;PT Sans Caption&quot;,sans-serif;font-weight:400;line-height:1.1;color:=
inherit;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"box=
-sizing:border-box;font-weight:700">Comment</span>=C2=A0(2019-05-01 for -25=
)<span class=3D"gmail-fa gmail-fa-envelope gmail-pull-right" title=3D"" sty=
le=3D"box-sizing:border-box;display:inline-block;font-variant-numeric:norma=
l;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:1;font-fam=
ily:FontAwesome;font-size:inherit;margin-left:0.3em;float:right"></span></h=
5></div><div class=3D"gmail-panel-body" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;padd=
ing:15px"><pre class=3D"gmail-ballot gmail-pasted" style=3D"box-sizing:bord=
er-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-=
size:14px;padding:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.214;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);word-break:keep-all;background-color:inherit;border:0px;bord=
er-radius:4px;white-space:pre-wrap">I strongly support Roman&#39;s DISCUSS =
- the scaling *seems* like it would end poorly, and I&#39;m a bit confused =
about what exactly is being recommended.=20
I&#39;m not 100% sure I understand how the deployment will actually occur, =
and so perhaps the IPSEC scaling doesn&#39;t cause an issue?</pre></div></d=
iv><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>

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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 12:06:49 +0300
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Hi Mirja,

Thank you for your review. We have added in the new version this new text
as answer to your comment.

" Since some of the uses cases here described, use IPv6-in-IPv6
encapsulation. It MUST take in consideration, when encapsulation is
applied, the RFC6040 [RFC6040], which defines how the explicit congestion
notification (ECN) field of the IP header should be constructed on entry to
and exit from any IPV6-in-IPV6 tunnel. Additionally, it is recommended the
reading of [I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels]."

Best regards,

the authors.

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 2:56 PM Mirja K=C3=BChlewind via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: No Objection
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I only did a quick read of this document but I would like to echo the
> TSV-ART
> review (Thanks Colin!) that a pointer to RFC6040 could be good in order t=
o
> highlight support of ECN for any tunnelling solutions. Also there is
> draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels which could be a good pointer/read for this
> spec.
>
>
>

--00000000000094d0e1058911b46f
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Mirja,<div><br></div><div>Thank you fo=
r your review. We have added in the new version this new text as answer to =
your comment.</div><div><br></div><div>&quot; Since some of the uses cases =
here described, use IPv6-in-IPv6
 encapsulation. It MUST take in consideration, when encapsulation is
 applied, the RFC6040 [RFC6040], which defines how the explicit
 congestion notification (ECN) field of the IP header should be
 constructed on entry to and exit from any IPV6-in-IPV6 tunnel.
 Additionally, it is recommended the reading of
 [I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels].&quot;<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best regard=
s,</div><div><br></div><div>the authors.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 2:56 P=
M Mirja K=C3=BChlewind via Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.o=
rg">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot p=
osition for<br>
draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: No Objection<br>
<br>
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<br>
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br>
introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit=
eria.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s=
tatement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
<br>
<br>
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
I only did a quick read of this document but I would like to echo the TSV-A=
RT<br>
review (Thanks Colin!) that a pointer to RFC6040 could be good in order to<=
br>
highlight support of ECN for any tunnelling solutions. Also there is<br>
draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels which could be a good pointer/read for this spec=
.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--00000000000094d0e1058911b46f--


From nobody Fri May 17 02:08:33 2019
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Great! Thanks!


> On 17. May 2019, at 09:06, Ines Robles =
<mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Mirja,
>=20
> Thank you for your review. We have added in the new version this new =
text as answer to your comment.
>=20
> " Since some of the uses cases here described, use IPv6-in-IPv6 =
encapsulation. It MUST take in consideration, when encapsulation is =
applied, the RFC6040 [RFC6040], which defines how the explicit =
congestion notification (ECN) field of the IP header should be  =
constructed on entry to and exit from any IPV6-in-IPV6 tunnel. =
Additionally, it is recommended the reading of =
[I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels]."
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> the authors.
>=20
> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 2:56 PM Mirja K=C3=BChlewind via Datatracker =
<noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: No Objection
>=20
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut =
this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>=20
>=20
> Please refer to =
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>=20
>=20
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> I only did a quick read of this document but I would like to echo the =
TSV-ART
> review (Thanks Colin!) that a pointer to RFC6040 could be good in =
order to
> highlight support of ECN for any tunnelling solutions. Also there is
> draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels which could be a good pointer/read for this =
spec.
>=20
>=20


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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 12:13:38 +0300
Message-ID: <CAP+sJUeVxRWpw558AGKMKqvmdf806QC0CsL1VHP=v7+Xhg8fuA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org,  Peter Van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>,  roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/XolW1Dli6o6y9yIMWfKT37jiaO8>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Adam,

Thank you for your review. We have submitted a new version with
corrections. Please find answer in-line.

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 7:27 AM Adam Roach via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks to everyone who worked on this document. I have only one minor
> comment.
>
> I'm a bit perplexed by the interplay between sections 3.1 and 3.3.
>
> Section 3.1 says:
>
> >  This change creates a flag day for existing networks which are
> >  currently using 0x63 as the RPI value.
>
> And then section 3.3 says:
>
> >  In order to avoid a Flag Day caused by lack of interoperation between
> >  new RPI (0x23) and old RPI (0x63) nodes, this section defines a flag
> >  in the DIO Configuration Option...
>
> Which leaves me wondering whether the net effect of this document does or
> does
> not create a flag day for networks. Please consider updating these
> sections to
> be consistent with each other.
>

Old text:  This change would otherwise create a flag day for existing
networks which are...


New Text: Without the signaling described below, this change would
otherwise create a flag day for existing networks which are currently using
0x63 as the RPI value.

Additionally, new text was added in Section 3.1.

Thanks,

The authors.

--0000000000000368a1058911cde7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Adam,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for=
 your review. We have submitted a new version with corrections. Please find=
 answer in-line.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 7:27 AM Adam Roach via Datatra=
cker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">--------------=
--------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Thanks to everyone who worked on this document. I have only one minor comme=
nt.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m a bit perplexed by the interplay between sections 3.1 and 3.3.<br>
<br>
Section 3.1 says:<br>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 This change creates a flag day for existing networks which are<b=
r>
&gt;=C2=A0 currently using 0x63 as the RPI value.<br>
<br>
And then section 3.3 says:<br>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 In order to avoid a Flag Day caused by lack of interoperation be=
tween<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 new RPI (0x23) and old RPI (0x63) nodes, this section defines a =
flag<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 in the DIO Configuration Option...<br>
<br>
Which leaves me wondering whether the net effect of this document does or d=
oes<br>
not create a flag day for networks. Please consider updating these sections=
 to<br>
be consistent with each other.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Old text=
:=C2=A0<span style=3D"background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">=C2=A0T=
his change would otherwise create a flag day for existing networks which ar=
e...</span></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-57bb724d-7fff-64c9-04=
1a-a3d68463e682"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;ma=
rgin-bottom:16pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numer=
ic:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-spac=
e:pre-wrap"><br></span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-=
top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-var=
iant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;=
white-space:pre-wrap">New Text: Without the signaling described below, this=
 change would otherwise
 create a flag day for existing networks which are currently using
 0x63 as the RPI value.</span></p><p style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0=
pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-=
numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white=
-space:pre-wrap">Additionally, new text was added in Section 3.1.</span></p=
><p style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span styl=
e=3D"background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">Thanks,</span></p><p sty=
le=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span style=3D"ba=
ckground-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier New&q=
uot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">The authors.</span><br></p></sp=
an><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div></div></d=
iv>

--0000000000000368a1058911cde7--


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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 12:20:53 +0300
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To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
Cc: IETF Gen-ART <gen-art@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo.all@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25
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--000000000000ea6f14058911e652
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Hi Russ,

Thank you for your review. New version was submitted with corrections.
Please find answer in-line.

On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 8:34 PM Russ Housley via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> Reviewer: Russ Housley
> Review result: Ready with Nits
> Minor Concerns:
>
> Section 1 says:
>
>    ... This document clarifies examples that intend to
>    illustrate the result of the normative language in RFC8200 and
>    RFC6553.  In other words, the examples are intended to be normative
>    explanation of the results of executing that language.
>
> This set the wrong expectation for me.  What the document seems to
> be doing is aligning with the recent normative change in RFC8200.  The
> alignment could lead to a flag day, and this document suggests a way to
> avoid a flag day.  It goes through a whole bunch of use cases to
> illustrate the updates.
>

New text was added to adress this:
"The ROLL WG analysized how [RFC2460] rules apply to storing and non-
storing use of RPL. The result was 24 data plane use cases. They are
exhaustively outlined here in order to be completely unambiguous. During
the processing of this document, new rules were published as [RFC8200], and
this document was updated to reflect the normative changes in that
document. "

>
>
> Nits:
>
> In Table 6, please move some of the whitespace on the right to the first
> column to avoid so many words being split across lines.
>
> Tables were fixed.

All the Best,

Ines

--000000000000ea6f14058911e652
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Russ,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for=
 your review. New version was submitted with corrections. Please find answe=
r in-line.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 8:34 PM Russ Housley via Datatracker=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Reviewer: Russ Hou=
sley<br>
Review result: Ready with Nits<br>Minor Concerns:<br>
<br>
Section 1 says:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0... This document clarifies examples that intend to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0illustrate the result of the normative language in RFC8200 and=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RFC6553.=C2=A0 In other words, the examples are intended to be=
 normative<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0explanation of the results of executing that language.<br>
<br>
This set the wrong expectation for me.=C2=A0 What the document seems to<br>
be doing is aligning with the recent normative change in RFC8200.=C2=A0 The=
<br>
alignment could lead to a flag day, and this document suggests a way to<br>
avoid a flag day.=C2=A0 It goes through a whole bunch of use cases to<br>
illustrate the updates.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>New text was ad=
ded to adress this:</div><div>&quot;The ROLL WG analysized how [RFC2460] ru=
les apply to storing and non-
 storing use of RPL. The result was 24 data plane use cases. They
 are exhaustively outlined here in order to be completely unambiguous.
 During the processing of this document, new rules were published as
 [RFC8200], and this document was updated to reflect the normative
 changes in that document. &quot;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padd=
ing-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
Nits:<br>
<br>
In Table 6, please move some of the whitespace on the right to the first<br=
>
column to avoid so many words being split across lines.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>Tables were fixed.</div><div><br></div><div>All the B=
est,</div><div><br></div><div>Ines</div></div></div>

--000000000000ea6f14058911e652--


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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 12:28:37 +0300
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To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Cc: secdir@ietf.org, roll <roll@ietf.org>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>,  draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo.all@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25
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Hi Daniel,

Thank you for your review and comments. We have submitted a new version
with corrections. Please find answer in-line

On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 10:01 PM Daniel Migault via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> Reviewer: Daniel Migault
> Review result: Ready
>
> Hi,
>
> I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's
> ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the
> IESG.  These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the
> security area directors.  Document editors and WG chairs should treat
> these comments just like any other last call comments.
>
> The summary of the review is READY
>
>
> nits:
>
>
>
>
>
> ROLL Working Group                                             M. Robles
> Internet-Draft                                                     Aalto
> Updates: 6553, 6550, 8138 (if approved)                    M. Richardson
> Intended status: Standards Track                                     SSW
> Expires: September 12, 2019                                   P. Thubert
>                                                                    Cisco
>                                                           March 11, 2019
>
>
> Using RPL Option Type, Routing Header for Source Routes and IPv6-in-IPv6
>                   encapsulation in the RPL Data Plane
>                     draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25
>
> Abstract
>
>    This document looks at different data flows through LLN (Low-Power
>    and Lossy Networks) where RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-Power
>    and Lossy Networks) is used to establish routing.  The document
>    enumerates the cases where RFC 6553 (RPL Option Type), RFC 6554
>    (Routing Header for Source Routes) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation is
>    required in data plane.  This analysis provides the basis on which to
>    design efficient compression of these headers.
> """
> s/on which//
> s/.  /. /
> """
>    This document updates
>    RFC 6553 adding a change to the RPL Option Type.  Additionally, this
>    document updates RFC 6550 to indicate about this change and updates
>    RFC8138 as well to consider the new Option Type when RPL Option is
>    decompressed.
>
> 1.  Introduction
>
>    RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-Power and Lossy Networks)
>    [RFC6550] is a routing protocol for constrained networks.  RFC 6553
>    [RFC6553] defines the "RPL option" (RPI), carried within the IPv6
>    Hop-by-Hop header to quickly identify inconsistencies (loops) in the
>    routing topology.  RFC 6554 [RFC6554] defines the "RPL Source Route
>    Header" (RH3), an IPv6 Extension Header to deliver datagrams within a
>
> <mglt>
> There is certainly a reason for the RH3 spelling, but from 6554 it seems
> to me that the abbreviation of Source Routing Header is SRH.
> </mglt>
>

<author> [RFC6554 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6554>] defines the type 3
Routing Header for IPv6

  (RH3)  </author>



>
>    RPL routing domain, particularly in non-storing mode.
>
> <mglt>
> For my personal knowledge, I do not understand why this is specific to
> non-storing mode. Is the reason that in non-storing modes nodes S steer
> datagram D via the root node R. The IPv6 packet (S,D) is tunneled from S
> to R and then from R to D. The first tunnel from S to R does not need
> SRH as nodes are able to steer this to the root (upward routing), while
> downward routing needs SRH extension.
>
> In a storing mode *regular* routing tables are able to steer the traffic
> from S, to D. There is no need of tunnel and SRH extension.
>
> Am I correct, or I am missing something? I apology in advance for the
> noise.
> </mglt>
>

<author> Yes, you are correct </author>

>
>
>
> 3.  Updates to RFC6553, RFC6550 and RFC 8138
>
> 3.1.  Updates to RFC 6553
>
>    This modification is required to be able to send, for example, IPv6
>    packets from a RPL-aware-leaf to a not-RPL-aware node through
>    Internet (see Section 6.2.1), without requiring IPv6-in-IPv6
>    encapsulation.
>
>    [RFC6553] states as shown below, that in the Option Type field of the
>    RPL Option header, the two high order bits must be set to '01' and
>    the third bit is equal to '1'.  The first two bits indicate that the
>    IPv6 node must discard the packet if it doesn't recognize the option
>    type, and the third bit indicates that the Option Data may change in
>    route.  The remaining bits serve as the option type.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Robles, et al.         Expires September 12, 2019               [Page 5]
> Internet-Draft               RPL-data-plane                   March 2019
>
>
>           Hex Value     Binary Value
>                         act  chg  rest     Description        Reference
>           ---------     ---  ---  -------  -----------------  ----------
>             0x63         01    1   00011   RPL Option         [RFC6553]
>
>
>                    Figure 1: Option Type in RPL Option.
>
>    Recent changes in [RFC8200] (section 4, page 8), states: "it is now
>    expected that nodes along a packet's delivery path only examine and
>    process the Hop-by-Hop Options header if explicitly configured to do
>    so".  Processing of the Hop-by-Hop Options header (by IPv6
>    intermediate nodes) is now optional, but if they are configured to
>    process the header, and if such nodes encounter an option with the
>    first two bits set to 01, they will drop the packet (if they conform
>    to [RFC8200]).  Host systems should do the same, irrespective of the
>    configuration.
>
>    Based on that, if an IPv6 (intermediate) node (RPL-not-capable)
>    receives a packet with an RPL Option, it should ignore the HBH RPL
>    option (skip over this option and continue processing the header).
>    This is relevant, as it was mentioned previously, in the case that
>    there is a flow from RPL-aware-leaf to Internet (see Section 6.2.1).
>
> <mglt>
> I might miss something, but it seems to me that 2460 would end up in the
> discard of packets with the RPL Option. 8200 introduces some
> instability. Typically, packets may reach their destination depending on
> the configuration of the intermediary nodes. In both cases communication
> between RPL-aware and not-RPL-aware nodes needs to relax the status of
> the RPL Option. It seems independent to the update of 2460.
> </mglt>
>

<author> new text was added for clarification:=E2=80=9DWhen unclear about t=
he
travel of a packet, it becomes preferable for a source not to encapsulate,
accepting the fact that the packet may leave the RPL domain on its way to
its destination. In that event, the packet should reach its destination and
should not be discarded by the first node that does not recognize the RPL
option. But with the current value of the Option Type, if a node in the
Internet is configured to process the HbH header, and if such node
encounters an option with the first two bits set to 01 and conforms to
<xref target=3D"RFC8200"/>, it will drop the packet. Host systems should do
the same, irrespective of the configuration.=E2=80=9D </author>



>
>    Thus, this document updates the Option Type field to: the two high
>    order bits MUST be set to '00' and the third bit is equal to '1'.
>    The first two bits indicate that the IPv6 node MUST skip over this
>    option and continue processing the header ([RFC8200] Section 4.2) if
>    it doesn't recognize the option type, and the third bit continues to
>    be set to indicate that the Option Data may change en route.  The
>    remaining bits serve as the option type and remain as 0x3.  This
>    ensures that a packet that leaves the RPL domain of an LLN (or that
>    leaves the LLN entirely) will not be discarded when it contains the
>    [RFC6553] RPL Hop-by-Hop option known as RPI.
>
>    This is a significant update to [RFC6553].  [RFCXXXX] represents this
>    document.
>
>
>           Hex Value     Binary Value
>                         act  chg  rest     Description        Reference
>           ---------     ---  ---  -------  -----------------  ----------
>             0x23         00    1   00011   RPL Option         [RFCXXXX]
>
>
>                Figure 2: Revised Option Type in RPL Option.
>
>
> 5.  Use cases
>
>
>    NOTE: There is some possible security risk when the RPI information
>    is released to the Internet.  At this point this is a theoretical
>    situation; no clear attack has been described.  At worst, it is clear
>    that the RPI option would waste some network bandwidth when it
>    escapes.  This is traded off against the savings in the LLN by not
>    having to encapsulate the packet in order to remove the artifact.
>
> <mglt>
> I believe that worst means minimal here. One of the risk is at least
> marking the packet as originating to/from a LLN. It may reveal the type
> of the information carried by the packet in addition to the information
> contained in the RPI. Possible information leaked may be related to the
> topology of the LLN, but I am not familiar enough to define clearly how
> this could be exploited. The information may also reveals information
> about the stability of the LLN by observing the rate. IF that is correct
> this could eventually provide indication an attack is effective or not.
>
> My understanding is that with 63 the packet is dropped after the first
> non aware router, while this is not the case with 23.
>
> Now that I have been through the security consideration section,
> I believe a sinple reference to the security consideration woudl be
> sufficient.
> </mglt>
>


<author> paragraph deleted in version 28 </author>



>
>
> 11.  Security Considerations
>
>    The security considerations covered in [RFC6553] and [RFC6554] apply
>    when the packets are in the RPL Domain.
>
>    The IPv6-in-IPv6 mechanism described in this document is much more
>    limited than the general mechanism described in [RFC2473].  The
>    willingness of each node in the LLN to decapsulate packets and
>    forward them could be exploited by nodes to disguise the origin of an
>    attack.
>
>    While a typical LLN may be a very poor origin for attack traffic (as
>    the networks tend to be very slow, and the nodes often have very low
>    duty cycles) given enough nodes, they could still have a significant
>    impact, particularly if the attack was on another LLN!
> <mglt>
> maybe it might be clearer - at least to me, but I am not English native.
> s/was on another LLN!/is targeting another LLN!/
> </mglt>
>

<author>fixed </author>

>
> Additionally,
>    some uses of RPL involve large backbone ISP scale equipment
>    [I-D.ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane], which may be equipped with
>    multiple 100Gb/s interfaces.
>
>    Blocking or careful filtering of IPv6-in-IPv6 traffic entering the
>    LLN as described above will make sure that any attack that is mounted
>    must originate from compromised nodes within the LLN.  The use of
>    BCP38 filtering at the RPL root on egress traffic will both alert the
>    operator to the existence of the attack, as well as drop the attack
>    traffic.  As the RPL network is typically numbered from a single
>    prefix, which is itself assigned by RPL, BCP38 filtering involves a
>    single prefix comparison and should be trivial to automatically
>    configure.
>
>    There are some scenarios where IPv6-in-IPv6 traffic should be allowed
>    to pass through the RPL root, such as the IPv6-in-IPv6 mediated
>    communications between a new Pledge and the Join Registrar/
>    Coordinator (JRC) when using [I-D.ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra]
>    and [I-D.ietf-6tisch-dtsecurity-secure-join].  This is the case for
>    the RPL root to do careful filtering: it occurs only when the Join
>    Coordinator is not co-located inside the RPL root.
>
>
>
>
> Robles, et al.         Expires September 12, 2019              [Page 45]
> Internet-Draft               RPL-data-plane                   March 2019
>
>
>    With the above precautions, an attack using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnels will
>    be by a node within the LLN on another node within the LLN.  Such an
>    attack could, of course, be done directly.  An attack of this kind is
>    meaningful only if the source addresses are either fake or if the
>    point is to amplify return traffic.  Such an attack, could also be
>    done without the use of IPv6-in-IPv6 headers using forged source
>    addresses.  If the attack requires bi-directional communication, then
>    IPv6-in-IPv6 provides no advantages.
>
>    [RFC2473] suggests that tunnel entry and exit points can be secured,
>    via the "Use IPsec".  The suggested solution has all the problems
>    that [RFC5406] goes into.  In an LLN such a solution would degenerate
>    into every node having a tunnel with every other node.  It would
>    provide a small amount of origin address authentication at a very
>    high cost; doing BCP38 at every node (linking layer-3 addresses to
>    layer-2 addresses, and to already present layer-2 cryptographic
>    mechanisms) would be cheaper should RPL be run in an environment
>    where hostile nodes are likely to be a part of the LLN.
>
> <mglt>
> My understanding is that IPsec SA will be needed between each parent -
> children and that a hop-by-hop decapsulation/encapsulation is happening.
> If that is correct, we may avoid the situation where each node deals
> with 2 * n *(n-1) SA. However without any transit devices IPsec provides
> no obvious advantages over L2 security. It might be god to recommend
> that one or the other layer implements security.
> In addition, I am also wondering if the use of IPsec would not be
> recommended as an alternative when LLN are involving communication over
> the Internet.
> <mglt>
>

<author>
New text added:
"Whenever IPv6-in-IPv6 headers are being proposed, there is a concern about
creating security issues. In the security section of [RFC2473], it was
suggested that tunnel entry and exit points can be secured, via "Use
IPsec". This recommendation is not practical for RPL networks. [RFC5406]
goes into some detail on what additional details would be needed in order
to "Use IPsec". Use of ESP would prevent RFC8183 compression (compression
must occur before encryption), and RFC8183 compression is lossy in a way
that prevents use of AH. These are minor issues. The major issue is how to
establish trust enough such that IKEv2 could be used. This would require a
system of certificates to be present in every single node, including any
Internet nodes that might need to communicate with the LLN. Thus, "Use
IPsec" requires a global PKI in the general case.

 More significantly, the use of IPsec tunnels to protect the IPv6-in- IPv6
headers would in the general case scale with the square of the number of
nodes. This is a lot of resource for a constrained nodes on a constrained
network. In the end, the IPsec tunnels would be providing only BCP38-like
origin authentication! Just doing BCP38 origin filtering at the entry and
exit of the LLN provides a similar level amount of security without all the
scaling and trust problems of using IPsec as RFC2473 suggested. IPsec is
not recommended."
</author>

Have a nice day,

Ines, Michael and Pascal.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,<div><br></div><div>Thank you f=
or your review and comments. We have submitted a new version with correctio=
ns. Please find answer in-line</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 10:01 PM Daniel=
 Migault via Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex">Reviewer: Daniel Migault<br>
Review result: Ready<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate&#39;s <br=
>
ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the <br>
IESG.=C2=A0 These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the <b=
r>
security area directors.=C2=A0 Document editors and WG chairs should treat =
<br>
these comments just like any other last call comments.<br>
<br>
The summary of the review is READY<br>
<br>
<br>
nits:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
ROLL Working Group=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0M. Robles<br>
Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Aalto<br>
Updates: 6553, 6550, 8138 (if approved)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 M. Richardson<br>
Intended status: Standards Track=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SSW<br>
Expires: September 12, 2019=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0P. Thubert<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cisco<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 March 11, 2019<br>
<br>
<br>
Using RPL Option Type, Routing Header for Source Routes and IPv6-in-IPv6<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 encapsulatio=
n in the RPL Data Plane<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft=
-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25<br>
<br>
Abstract<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document looks at different data flows through LLN (Low-P=
ower<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and Lossy Networks) where RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-P=
ower<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and Lossy Networks) is used to establish routing.=C2=A0 The do=
cument<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0enumerates the cases where RFC 6553 (RPL Option Type), RFC 655=
4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Routing Header for Source Routes) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulat=
ion is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0required in data plane.=C2=A0 This analysis provides the basis=
 on which to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0design efficient compression of these headers.<br>
&quot;&quot;&quot;<br>
s/on which//<br>
s/.=C2=A0 /. /<br>
&quot;&quot;&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RFC 6553 adding a change to the RPL Option Type.=C2=A0 Additio=
nally, this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0document updates RFC 6550 to indicate about this change and up=
dates<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RFC8138 as well to consider the new Option Type when RPL Optio=
n is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0decompressed.<br>
<br>
1.=C2=A0 Introduction<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-Power and Lossy Networks)<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC6550] is a routing protocol for constrained networks.=C2=
=A0 RFC 6553<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC6553] defines the &quot;RPL option&quot; (RPI), carried wi=
thin the IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hop-by-Hop header to quickly identify inconsistencies (loops) =
in the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routing topology.=C2=A0 RFC 6554 [RFC6554] defines the &quot;R=
PL Source Route<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Header&quot; (RH3), an IPv6 Extension Header to deliver datagr=
ams within a<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
There is certainly a reason for the RH3 spelling, but from 6554 it seems<br=
>
to me that the abbreviation of Source Routing Header is SRH. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-interna=
l-guid-c1ed8f64-7fff-a422-4535-26edc9d77c55"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-h=
eight:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-num=
eric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-sp=
ace:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal=
;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wra=
p">[</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6554" style=3D"text-de=
coration-line:none"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-=
decoration-line:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">RFC=
6554</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-as=
ian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">] defines the type=
 3 Routing Header for IPv6</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.=
38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:norma=
l;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wr=
ap"> =C2=A0=C2=A0(RH3) </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&=
quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;fon=
t-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">=
=C2=A0&lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange=
-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL routing domain, particularly in non-storing mode.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
For my personal knowledge, I do not understand why this is specific to<br>
non-storing mode. Is the reason that in non-storing modes nodes S steer<br>
datagram D via the root node R. The IPv6 packet (S,D) is tunneled from S<br=
>
to R and then from R to D. The first tunnel from S to R does not need<br>
SRH as nodes are able to steer this to the root (upward routing), while<br>
downward routing needs SRH extension.<br>
<br>
In a storing mode *regular* routing tables are able to steer the traffic<br=
>
from S, to D. There is no need of tunnel and SRH extension. <br>
<br>
Am I correct, or I am missing something? I apology in advance for the<br>
noise. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(=
255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space=
:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; Yes, you are correct &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
<br>
3.=C2=A0 Updates to RFC6553, RFC6550 and RFC 8138<br>
<br>
3.1.=C2=A0 Updates to RFC 6553<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This modification is required to be able to send, for example,=
 IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets from a RPL-aware-leaf to a not-RPL-aware node through<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Internet (see Section 6.2.1), without requiring IPv6-in-IPv6<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC6553] states as shown below, that in the Option Type field=
 of the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL Option header, the two high order bits must be set to &#39=
;01&#39; and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the third bit is equal to &#39;1&#39;.=C2=A0 The first two bit=
s indicate that the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 node must discard the packet if it doesn&#39;t recognize =
the option<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0type, and the third bit indicates that the Option Data may cha=
nge in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0route.=C2=A0 The remaining bits serve as the option type.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Robles, et al.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Expires September 12, 2019=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[Page 5]<br>
Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL-da=
ta-plane=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0March 2019<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hex Value=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Binary Valu=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 act=C2=A0 chg=C2=A0 rest=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Description=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reference<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ---------=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---=C2=A0 -=
--=C2=A0 -------=C2=A0 -----------------=C2=A0 ----------<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0x63=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A001=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1=C2=A0 =C2=A000011=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL Option=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC6553]<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Figure=
 1: Option Type in RPL Option.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Recent changes in [RFC8200] (section 4, page 8), states: &quot=
;it is now<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0expected that nodes along a packet&#39;s delivery path only ex=
amine and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0process the Hop-by-Hop Options header if explicitly configured=
 to do<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0so&quot;.=C2=A0 Processing of the Hop-by-Hop Options header (b=
y IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0intermediate nodes) is now optional, but if they are configure=
d to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0process the header, and if such nodes encounter an option with=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0first two bits set to 01, they will drop the packet (if they c=
onform<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to [RFC8200]).=C2=A0 Host systems should do the same, irrespec=
tive of the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0configuration.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Based on that, if an IPv6 (intermediate) node (RPL-not-capable=
)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0receives a packet with an RPL Option, it should ignore the HBH=
 RPL<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0option (skip over this option and continue processing the head=
er).<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is relevant, as it was mentioned previously, in the case =
that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0there is a flow from RPL-aware-leaf to Internet (see Section 6=
.2.1).<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I might miss something, but it seems to me that 2460 would end up in the<br=
>
discard of packets with the RPL Option. 8200 introduces some<br>
instability. Typically, packets may reach their destination depending on<br=
>
the configuration of the intermediary nodes. In both cases communication<br=
>
between RPL-aware and not-RPL-aware nodes needs to relax the status of<br>
the RPL Option. It seems independent to the update of 2460.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <b=
r>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-interna=
l-guid-a2301507-7fff-7620-7a70-b998f9a053e1"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-h=
eight:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-num=
eric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-sp=
ace:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; new text was added for clarification:=E2=80=9D=
When unclear about the travel of a packet, it becomes preferable for a sour=
ce not to encapsulate, accepting the fact that the packet may leave the RPL=
 domain on its way to its destination. In that event, the packet should rea=
ch its destination and should not be discarded by the first node that does =
not recognize the RPL option. But with the current value of the Option Type=
, if a node in the Internet is configured to process the HbH header, and if=
 such node encounters an option with the first two bits set to 01 and confo=
rms to &lt;xref target=3D&quot;RFC8200&quot;/&gt;, it will drop the packet.=
 Host systems should do the same, irrespective of the configuration.=E2=80=
=9D &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-n=
ewline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thus, this document updates the Option Type field to: the two =
high<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0order bits MUST be set to &#39;00&#39; and the third bit is eq=
ual to &#39;1&#39;.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The first two bits indicate that the IPv6 node MUST skip over =
this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0option and continue processing the header ([RFC8200] Section 4=
.2) if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it doesn&#39;t recognize the option type, and the third bit co=
ntinues to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be set to indicate that the Option Data may change en route.=
=C2=A0 The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0remaining bits serve as the option type and remain as 0x3.=C2=
=A0 This<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0ensures that a packet that leaves the RPL domain of an LLN (or=
 that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0leaves the LLN entirely) will not be discarded when it contain=
s the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC6553] RPL Hop-by-Hop option known as RPI.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is a significant update to [RFC6553].=C2=A0 [RFCXXXX] rep=
resents this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0document.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hex Value=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Binary Valu=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 act=C2=A0 chg=C2=A0 rest=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Description=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reference<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ---------=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---=C2=A0 -=
--=C2=A0 -------=C2=A0 -----------------=C2=A0 ----------<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0x23=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A000=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1=C2=A0 =C2=A000011=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL Option=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFCXXXX]<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Figure 2: Revised Op=
tion Type in RPL Option.<br>
<br>
<br>
5.=C2=A0 Use cases<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0NOTE: There is some possible security risk when the RPI inform=
ation<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is released to the Internet.=C2=A0 At this point this is a the=
oretical<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0situation; no clear attack has been described.=C2=A0 At worst,=
 it is clear<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that the RPI option would waste some network bandwidth when it=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0escapes.=C2=A0 This is traded off against the savings in the L=
LN by not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0having to encapsulate the packet in order to remove the artifa=
ct.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I believe that worst means minimal here. One of the risk is at least<br>
marking the packet as originating to/from a LLN. It may reveal the type<br>
of the information carried by the packet in addition to the information<br>
contained in the RPI. Possible information leaked may be related to the<br>
topology of the LLN, but I am not familiar enough to define clearly how<br>
this could be exploited. The information may also reveals information<br>
about the stability of the LLN by observing the rate. IF that is correct<br=
>
this could eventually provide indication an attack is effective or not.=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 <br>
<br>
My understanding is that with 63 the packet is dropped after the first<br>
non aware router, while this is not the case with 23.<br>
<br>
Now that I have been through the security consideration section, <br>
I believe a sinple reference to the security consideration woudl be<br>
sufficient. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-inter=
nal-guid-7f303f72-7fff-344a-687f-e685f260778e"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line=
-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-n=
umeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; paragraph deleted in version 28 &lt;/author&=
gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
11.=C2=A0 Security Considerations<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The security considerations covered in [RFC6553] and [RFC6554]=
 apply<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0when the packets are in the RPL Domain.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The IPv6-in-IPv6 mechanism described in this document is much =
more<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0limited than the general mechanism described in [RFC2473].=C2=
=A0 The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0willingness of each node in the LLN to decapsulate packets and=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0forward them could be exploited by nodes to disguise the origi=
n of an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0While a typical LLN may be a very poor origin for attack traff=
ic (as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the networks tend to be very slow, and the nodes often have ve=
ry low<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0duty cycles) given enough nodes, they could still have a signi=
ficant<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0impact, particularly if the attack was on another LLN! <br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
maybe it might be clearer - at least to me, but I am not English native.<br=
>
s/was on another LLN!/is targeting another LLN!/=C2=A0 =C2=A0<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(=
255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space=
:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;fixed &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Additionally,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0some uses of RPL involve large backbone ISP scale equipment<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane], which may be equippe=
d with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0multiple 100Gb/s interfaces.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Blocking or careful filtering of IPv6-in-IPv6 traffic entering=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0LLN as described above will make sure that any attack that is =
mounted<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0must originate from compromised nodes within the LLN.=C2=A0 Th=
e use of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0BCP38 filtering at the RPL root on egress traffic will both al=
ert the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operator to the existence of the attack, as well as drop the a=
ttack<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traffic.=C2=A0 As the RPL network is typically numbered from a=
 single<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prefix, which is itself assigned by RPL, BCP38 filtering invol=
ves a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0single prefix comparison and should be trivial to automaticall=
y<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0configure.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are some scenarios where IPv6-in-IPv6 traffic should be =
allowed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to pass through the RPL root, such as the IPv6-in-IPv6 mediate=
d<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0communications between a new Pledge and the Join Registrar/<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Coordinator (JRC) when using [I-D.ietf-anima-bootstrapping-key=
infra]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and [I-D.ietf-6tisch-dtsecurity-secure-join].=C2=A0 This is th=
e case for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the RPL root to do careful filtering: it occurs only when the =
Join<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Coordinator is not co-located inside the RPL root.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Robles, et al.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Expires September 12, 2019=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [Page 45]<br>
Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL-da=
ta-plane=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0March 2019<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0With the above precautions, an attack using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunne=
ls will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be by a node within the LLN on another node within the LLN.=C2=
=A0 Such an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack could, of course, be done directly.=C2=A0 An attack of =
this kind is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0meaningful only if the source addresses are either fake or if =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0point is to amplify return traffic.=C2=A0 Such an attack, coul=
d also be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0done without the use of IPv6-in-IPv6 headers using forged sour=
ce<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0addresses.=C2=A0 If the attack requires bi-directional communi=
cation, then<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6-in-IPv6 provides no advantages.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC2473] suggests that tunnel entry and exit points can be se=
cured,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0via the &quot;Use IPsec&quot;.=C2=A0 The suggested solution ha=
s all the problems<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that [RFC5406] goes into.=C2=A0 In an LLN such a solution woul=
d degenerate<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0into every node having a tunnel with every other node.=C2=A0 I=
t would<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provide a small amount of origin address authentication at a v=
ery<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0high cost; doing BCP38 at every node (linking layer-3 addresse=
s to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0layer-2 addresses, and to already present layer-2 cryptographi=
c<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms) would be cheaper should RPL be run in an environme=
nt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0where hostile nodes are likely to be a part of the LLN.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
My understanding is that IPsec SA will be needed between each parent -<br>
children and that a hop-by-hop decapsulation/encapsulation is happening.<br=
>
If that is correct, we may avoid the situation where each node deals<br>
with 2 * n *(n-1) SA. However without any transit devices IPsec provides<br=
>
no obvious advantages over L2 security. It might be god to recommend<br>
that one or the other layer implements security.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<br>
In addition, I am also wondering if the use of IPsec would not be<br>
recommended as an alternative when LLN are involving communication over<br>
the Internet. <br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-i=
nternal-guid-0ffc582b-7fff-317e-9991-565ec0ae7647"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-varia=
nt-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt;</span></span><br></div><div>New text add=
ed:</div><div>&quot;Whenever IPv6-in-IPv6 headers are being proposed, there=
 is a concern
 about creating security issues. In the security section of
 [RFC2473], it was suggested that tunnel entry and exit points can be
 secured, via &quot;Use IPsec&quot;. This recommendation is not practical f=
or
 RPL networks. [RFC5406] goes into some detail on what additional
 details would be needed in order to &quot;Use IPsec&quot;. Use of ESP woul=
d
 prevent RFC8183 compression (compression must occur before
 encryption), and RFC8183 compression is lossy in a way that prevents
 use of AH. These are minor issues. The major issue is how to
 establish trust enough such that IKEv2 could be used. This would
 require a system of certificates to be present in every single node,
 including any Internet nodes that might need to communicate with the
 LLN. Thus, &quot;Use IPsec&quot; requires a global PKI in the general case=
.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0More significantly, the use of IPsec tunne=
ls to protect the IPv6-in-
 IPv6 headers would in the general case scale with the square of the
 number of nodes. This is a lot of resource for a constrained nodes
 on a constrained network. In the end, the IPsec tunnels would be
 providing only BCP38-like origin authentication! Just doing BCP38
 origin filtering at the entry and exit of the LLN provides a similar
 level amount of security without all the scaling and trust problems
 of using IPsec as RFC2473 suggested. IPsec is not recommended.&quot;=C2=A0=
</div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;/author&gt;</span><br></di=
v><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></div><div><font face=
=3D"Courier New" color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;white-spac=
e:pre-wrap">Have a nice day,</span></font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier =
New" color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">=
<br></span></font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"#000000"><=
span style=3D"font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">Ines, Michael and Pascal=
.</span></font></div></div></div>

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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 12:32:45 +0300
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To: Henning Rogge <hrogge@gmail.com>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>,  "Luc Andre Burdet (lburdet)" <lburdet@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>,  Min Ye <amy.yemin@huawei.com>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] rtgdir Last Call Review: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo
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Hi Henning,

Thank you for your review and comments. We have submitted a new version
with corrections. Please find answer in-line.


On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 9:15 PM Henning Rogge <hrogge@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I was asked by the IETF to do a Routing-Directorate review of
> draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo. Please note that I do NOT follow
> the ROLL WG.
>
> Overall I think the draft tries too hard to condense information
> into one document. It often uses non-intuitive abbreviations (e.g.
> "RPL-aware-Leaf" as "RaF" or "target" as "tgt") and I just don't
> know if this is the common way to do it in ROLL or just an unlucky
> accident.
>

<author> Abbreviations are mentioned in the terminology section. The
abbreviations are mainly done to fit into the tables </author>


> A lot of tables are literally overloaded with information to the
> point where the document generator splits apart words, making the
> table unreadable (see table 4,6,7,8,11,21 among others).
>

<author> Tables were fixed with new format </author>



>
> Other table entries are just not easy to interpret. Table 7
> (as an example) has the options "no, "must" and "yes" for a column
> which raises the question what is the difference between "must"
> and "yes".
>

<author> fixed </author>

>
> I am not sure what advice to give for the draft, if this (as the
> abstract states) is the analysis for the basis of header compression
> design I am worried that the design decisions will be hard to understand.
>

 <author> We hope with the new corrections, the draft is easy to understand
now </author>

Best regards,

Ines

>
> Henning Rogge
>

--000000000000526a9605891211dc
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Henning,<div><br></div><div>Thank you =
for your review=C2=A0and comments. We have submitted a new version with cor=
rections. Please find answer in-line.</div><div><br></div></div><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 16, 2=
019 at 9:15 PM Henning Rogge &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hrogge@gmail.com">hrogge=
@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
I was asked by the IETF to do a Routing-Directorate review of<br>
draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo. Please note that I do NOT follow<br>
the ROLL WG.<br>
<br>
Overall I think the draft tries too hard to condense information<br>
into one document. It often uses non-intuitive abbreviations (e.g.<br>
&quot;RPL-aware-Leaf&quot; as &quot;RaF&quot; or &quot;target&quot; as &quo=
t;tgt&quot;) and I just don&#39;t<br>
know if this is the common way to do it in ROLL or just an unlucky<br>
accident.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-gu=
id-1ae4fae8-7fff-a68a-be65-6639e2111ecc"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-heigh=
t:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric=
:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:=
pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; Abbreviations are mentioned in the terminology sec=
tion. The abbreviations are mainly done to fit into the tables &lt;/author&=
gt;</span></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
A lot of tables are literally overloaded with information to the<br>
point where the document generator splits apart words, making the<br>
table unreadable (see table 4,6,7,8,11,21 among others).<br></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-ddb291c5-7fff-679b-dbfb-4=
9badb1dc323"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin=
-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;;color:rgb(255,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-as=
ian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; Tab=
les were fixed with new format &lt;/author&gt;</span></p></span><br class=
=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Other table entries are just not easy to interpret. Table 7<br>
(as an example) has the options &quot;no, &quot;must&quot; and &quot;yes&qu=
ot; for a column<br>
which raises the question what is the difference between &quot;must&quot;<b=
r>
and &quot;yes&quot;.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(255,0,255);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-=
space:pre-wrap">&lt;author&gt; fixed  &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I am not sure what advice to give for the draft, if this (as the<br>
abstract states) is the analysis for the basis of header compression<br>
design I am worried that the design decisions will be hard to understand.<b=
r></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(255,0,255=
);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">=
&lt;author&gt; We hope with the new corrections, the draft is easy to under=
stand now  &lt;/author&gt;</span>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Best regar=
ds,</div><div><br></div><div>Ines=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Henning Rogge<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000526a9605891211dc--


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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 12:34:24 +0300
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To: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>
Cc: tsv-art@ietf.org, roll <roll@ietf.org>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>,  draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo.all@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25
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Hi Colin,

Thank you for your review and comments. We have added a new paragraph which
addresses your concern.

New Text: "Since some of the uses cases here described, use IPv6-in-IPv6
encapsulation. It MUST take in consideration, when encapsulation is
applied, the RFC6040 [RFC6040], which defines how the explicit congestion
notification (ECN) field of the IP header should be constructed on entry to
and exit from any IPV6-in-IPV6 tunnel. Additionally, it is recommended the
reading of [I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels]."

Best,

Ines

On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 1:46 PM Colin Perkins via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> Reviewer: Colin Perkins
> Review result: Ready with Nits
>
> This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team's
> ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written
> primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the
> document's
> authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the
> IETF
> discussion list for information.
>
> When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this
> review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC
> tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review.
>
> The draft updates RFC 6553 to use a different IPv6 hop-by-hop option type
> for
> RPL packets, to avoid some issues discovered through deployment experience.
> This looks to require a flag day cutover, and hence has some potential
> interoperability concerns, but introduces no transport concern. The draft
> also
> describes a number of clarifications around when to use the RPL hop-by-hop
> option header and when to use IP-in-IP tunnelling, described based on a
> set of
> use case examples.
>
> There do not look to be any new transport-related concerns with this draft.
>
> The draft does not mention ECN when using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunneling. It is
> perhaps
> implied, but a reference to RFC 6040 would be helpful to clarify how ECN
> bits
> are copied between inner and outer headers when encapsulating and
> decapsulating
> packets from an IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel. ECN is seeing increasing use in
> transport
> protocols, so correctly propagating this information is important.
>
>
>

--0000000000004038f005891217d2
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Colin,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for your review and=
 comments. We have added a new paragraph which addresses your concern.</div=
><div><br></div><div>New Text: &quot;Since some of the uses cases here desc=
ribed, use IPv6-in-IPv6
 encapsulation. It MUST take in consideration, when encapsulation is
 applied, the RFC6040 [RFC6040], which defines how the explicit
 congestion notification (ECN) field of the IP header should be
 constructed on entry to and exit from any IPV6-in-IPV6 tunnel.
 Additionally, it is recommended the reading of
 [I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels].&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div=
><br></div><div>Ines</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 1:46 PM Colin Perkins via=
 Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply@ietf.org</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Review=
er: Colin Perkins<br>
Review result: Ready with Nits<br>
<br>
This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team&#=
39;s<br>
ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written<br=
>
primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document&=
#39;s<br>
authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the I=
ETF<br>
discussion list for information.<br>
<br>
When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this<b=
r>
review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:tsv-art@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">tsv-art@ietf.org</a> =
if you reply to or forward this review.<br>
<br>
The draft updates RFC 6553 to use a different IPv6 hop-by-hop option type f=
or<br>
RPL packets, to avoid some issues discovered through deployment experience.=
<br>
This looks to require a flag day cutover, and hence has some potential<br>
interoperability concerns, but introduces no transport concern. The draft a=
lso<br>
describes a number of clarifications around when to use the RPL hop-by-hop<=
br>
option header and when to use IP-in-IP tunnelling, described based on a set=
 of<br>
use case examples.<br>
<br>
There do not look to be any new transport-related concerns with this draft.=
<br>
<br>
The draft does not mention ECN when using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunneling. It is per=
haps<br>
implied, but a reference to RFC 6040 would be helpful to clarify how ECN bi=
ts<br>
are copied between inner and outer headers when encapsulating and decapsula=
ting<br>
packets from an IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel. ECN is seeing increasing use in transp=
ort<br>
protocols, so correctly propagating this information is important.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000004038f005891217d2--


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Subject: Re: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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Dear Roll,

I support the adoption of this draft.

Best,
Georgios


> On May 16, 2019, at 08:23, Rahul Arvind Jadhav =
<rahul.jadhav@huawei.com> wrote:
>=20
> I support the adoption of this draft.
> =20
> This draft is natural progression for the work done in RFC 8505. It =
does not have much impact on the semantics of RPL and still extends it =
to new scenarios.
> =20
> Regards,
> Rahul
> =20
> From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ines Robles
> Sent: 13 May 2019 20:32
> To: roll <roll@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Roll] WG call for adoption of =
draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
> =20
> Dear all,
> =20
> This is a call for adoption of the draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves =
document.
> =20
> The call starts today (13-05) and finalize on 27-05.
> =20
> Please send your support/opposition with comments before deadline.
> =20
> Thank you very much,
> =20
> Ines and Peter
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--Apple-Mail=_1B675CE0-F061-4A51-83EB-359A3F1BE777
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Dear Roll,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I support the adoption of this draft.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Best,</div><div =
class=3D"">Georgios</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On May 16, 2019, at 08:23, Rahul Arvind Jadhav &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rahul.jadhav@huawei.com" =
class=3D"">rahul.jadhav@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I support the adoption of this draft.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">This draft is natural =
progression for the work done in RFC 8505. It does not have much impact =
on the semantics of RPL and still extends it to new scenarios.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Rahul<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Roll [<a =
href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Ines Robles<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>13 May 2019 20:32<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>roll &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org" class=3D"">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[Roll] WG call for adoption =
of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Dear all,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">This is a call for adoption of the =
draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves document.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The call starts today (13-05) and =
finalize on 27-05.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Please send your support/opposition with comments =
before deadline.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Thank you very much,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Ines and Peter<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><span style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Roll mailing =
list</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Roll@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a></span></div></bl=
ockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Prof. Diego Dujovne" <diego.dujovne@mail.udp.cl>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 08:43:14 -0300
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/l409gzfB4db3RXJCjPP9KKcBmR8>
Subject: Re: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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I support the adoption of this draft

El vie., 17 de may. de 2019 08:40, Georgios Z. Papadopoulos <
georgios.papadopoulos@imt-atlantique.fr> escribi=C3=B3:

> Dear Roll,
>
> I support the adoption of this draft.
>
> Best,
> Georgios
>
>
> On May 16, 2019, at 08:23, Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
> I support the adoption of this draft.
>
> This draft is natural progression for the work done in RFC 8505. It does
> not have much impact on the semantics of RPL and still extends it to new
> scenarios.
>
> Regards,
> Rahul
>
> *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org <roll-bounces@ietf.org>] *On
> Behalf Of *Ines Robles
> *Sent:* 13 May 2019 20:32
> *To:* roll <roll@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [Roll] WG call for adoption of
> draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
>
> Dear all,
>
> This is a call for adoption of the draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
> document.
>
> The call starts today (13-05) and finalize on 27-05.
>
> Please send your support/opposition with comments before deadline.
>
> Thank you very much,
>
> Ines and Peter
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>

--000000000000409c0c058913e437
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<div dir=3D"auto">I support the adoption of this draft</div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">El vie., 17 de may. =
de 2019 08:40, Georgios Z. Papadopoulos &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:georgios.papa=
dopoulos@imt-atlantique.fr">georgios.papadopoulos@imt-atlantique.fr</a>&gt;=
 escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-=
wrap:break-word">Dear Roll,<div><br></div><div>I support the adoption of th=
is draft.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Georgios</div><div><br><=
div>
</div>
<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On May 16, 2019, at 08:23, Rahul Ar=
vind Jadhav &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rahul.jadhav@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">rahul.jadhav@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=
=3D"m_-7826535601704725390Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div class=3D"m_-=
7826535601704725390WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:1=
2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-sp=
acing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-spa=
ce:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size=
:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I support the ad=
option of this draft.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,12=
5)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;=
font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">This dr=
aft is natural progression for the work done in RFC 8505. It does not have =
much impact on the semantics of RPL and still extends it to new scenarios.<=
u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:1=
2pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-fa=
mily:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39=
;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Rahul<u></u><u></u></span></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New R=
oman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"bor=
der-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:1.5=
pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt"><div><div style=3D"border-style:solid none none=
;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm=
"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Tim=
es New Roman&#39;,serif"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calib=
ri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"m_-7826535601704725390Apple-converted-spac=
e">=C2=A0</span>Roll [<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank" rel=3D"noreferrer">mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span class=3D"m_=
-7826535601704725390Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><b>On Behalf Of<spa=
n class=3D"m_-7826535601704725390Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></b>In=
es Robles<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"m_-7826535601704725390Apple-convert=
ed-space">=C2=A0</span>13 May 2019 20:32<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"m_-782=
6535601704725390Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>roll &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">roll@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"m_-7826535601704725390Apple-converted-s=
pace">=C2=A0</span>[Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unawar=
e-leaves<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm=
 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:1=
2pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></d=
iv><div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#=
39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div></div><div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Ro=
man&#39;,serif">This is a call for adoption of the draft-thubert-roll-unawa=
re-leaves document.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin:0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;fo=
nt-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif">The call starts t=
oday (13-05) and finalize on 27-05.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roma=
n&#39;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin:0cm=
 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif">P=
lease send your support/opposition with comments before deadline.<u></u><u>=
</u></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;f=
ont-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div></div=
><div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39=
;Times New Roman&#39;,serif">Thank you very much,<u></u><u></u></div></div>=
<div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;=
Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div></div><div><div style=
=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman=
&#39;,serif">Ines and Peter<u></u><u></u></div></div></div></div></div><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-vari=
ant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;floa=
t:none;display:inline!important">__________________________________________=
_____</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:no=
rmal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text=
-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-sp=
acing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Roll mailing list</span><br=
 style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;te=
xt-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-vari=
ant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;floa=
t:none;display:inline!important"><a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Roll@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"font-famil=
y:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-=
weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font=
-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-=
transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inlin=
e!important"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</=
a></span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>_________________________=
______________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Roll@=
ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><=
br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: "Patrick Wetterwald (pwetterw)" <pwetterw@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 14:05:19 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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Subject: Re: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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From franciscojavier.sanchezroselly@ujaen.es  Fri May 17 04:56:32 2019
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Subject: [Roll] clarification on rfc6206
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hi All, a minor question on section 4.2.

rule 6 states that to reset Trickle, I must be greater than Imin, but this c=
ondition always verifies because of rules 1 and 5.

is this redundant or I should be t in rule 6?

thanks, regards.

francisco javier sanchez-roselly=


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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain


draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves-07 uses the term:

   RPL provides unicast and
   multicast routing services back to RPL-Aware nodes (RANs)

while we used a term "RPL-aware-leaF" (RaF), which is almost, but
not quite the same thing.

Should we use a single term if possible.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
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I have read unaware-leaves.
I think that is addresses an important gap in the ROLL specification, and I
think we should adopt it.

I have some concerns about how much time a leaf has to stay alive (figure 2).

The document only addresses control traffic.  I think that the document
should repeat some of the data plane advice, and I think that we should
have advice for RULs about insertion and ignoring RPI and RH3 headers.

--
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Hello folks,

I think that using 'f' for "leaf" isn't right.  What's wrong with 'l' - 
or (typographically better) 'L'?

Acronyms in general are often misused in ways that lead to reduced 
understanding.  Acronyms that don't suggest the phrases they abbreviate 
are guaranteed to increase head-scratching and reduce comprehension.

Also, I think that "RPL-unaware" would be much better than 
"not-RPL-aware".  And, then, "RuL' instead of the twiddly thing.

Regards,
Charlie P.


On 5/17/2019 12:41 PM, Michael Richardson wrote:
> draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves-07 uses the term:
>
>     RPL provides unicast and
>     multicast routing services back to RPL-Aware nodes (RANs)
>
> while we used a term "RPL-aware-leaF" (RaF), which is almost, but
> not quite the same thing.
>
> Should we use a single term if possible.
>
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
>   -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

--------------1720652CF067A8B384F14589
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Hello folks,</p>
    <p>I think that using 'f' for "leaf" isn't right.  What's wrong with
      'l' - or (typographically better) 'L'?</p>
    <p>Acronyms in general are often misused in ways that lead to
      reduced understanding.  Acronyms that don't suggest the phrases
      they abbreviate are guaranteed to increase head-scratching and
      reduce comprehension.</p>
    <p>Also, I think that "RPL-unaware" would be much better than
      "not-RPL-aware".  And, then, "RuL' instead of the twiddly thing.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Regards,<br>
      Charlie P.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/17/2019 12:41 PM, Michael
      Richardson wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:31365.1558122117@localhost">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves-07 uses the term:

   RPL provides unicast and
   multicast routing services back to RPL-Aware nodes (RANs)

while we used a term "RPL-aware-leaF" (RaF), which is almost, but
not quite the same thing.

Should we use a single term if possible.

--
Michael Richardson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca">&lt;mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca&gt;</a>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-



</pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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Subject: Re: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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V2VsbCBub3RlZCBNaWNoYWVsLg0KDQpBbGwgdGhlIGJlc3QsDQoNClBhc2NhbA0KDQo+IExlIDE3
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From nobody Fri May 17 13:35:11 2019
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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] RaF vs RAN as a TLA
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=E2=80=9CHost=E2=80=9D is a great word for a thing that is not a router.

If you call RPL-unaware things =E2=80=9Chosts=E2=80=9D, you reclaim the =
term =E2=80=9CLeaf=E2=80=9D for routers that don=E2=80=99t forward =
(=E2=80=9Cleaf router=E2=80=9D in long form).

Look, ma, no abbrevs.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


> On May 17, 2019, at 22:11, Charlie Perkins =
<charles.perkins@earthlink.net> wrote:
>=20
> Hello folks,
>=20
> I think that using 'f' for "leaf" isn't right.  What's wrong with 'l' =
- or (typographically better) 'L'?
>=20
> Acronyms in general are often misused in ways that lead to reduced =
understanding.  Acronyms that don't suggest the phrases they abbreviate =
are guaranteed to increase head-scratching and reduce comprehension.
>=20
> Also, I think that "RPL-unaware" would be much better than =
"not-RPL-aware".  And, then, "RuL' instead of the twiddly thing.
> Regards,
> Charlie P.
>=20
>=20
> On 5/17/2019 12:41 PM, Michael Richardson wrote:
>> draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves-07 uses the term:
>>=20
>>    RPL provides unicast and
>>    multicast routing services back to RPL-Aware nodes (RANs)
>>=20
>> while we used a term "RPL-aware-leaF" (RaF), which is almost, but
>> not quite the same thing.
>>=20
>> Should we use a single term if possible.
>>=20
>> --
>> Michael Richardson=20
>> <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>
>> , Sandelman Software Works
>>  -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Roll mailing list
>>=20
>> Roll@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


From nobody Fri May 17 13:36:49 2019
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To: Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org, Peter Van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
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From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: (with COMMENT)
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------6843D8780CF0B36845FC5DAD
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Thanks! This looks good.

/a

On 5/17/19 4:13 AM, Ines Robles wrote:
> Hi Adam,
>
> Thank you for your review. We have submitted a new version with 
> corrections. Please find answer in-line.
>
> On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 7:27 AM Adam Roach via Datatracker 
> <noreply@ietf.org <mailto:noreply@ietf.org>> wrote:
>
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     COMMENT:
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Thanks to everyone who worked on this document. I have only one
>     minor comment.
>
>     I'm a bit perplexed by the interplay between sections 3.1 and 3.3.
>
>     Section 3.1 says:
>
>     >  This change creates a flag day for existing networks which are
>     >  currently using 0x63 as the RPI value.
>
>     And then section 3.3 says:
>
>     >  In order to avoid a Flag Day caused by lack of interoperation
>     between
>     >  new RPI (0x23) and old RPI (0x63) nodes, this section defines a
>     flag
>     >  in the DIO Configuration Option...
>
>     Which leaves me wondering whether the net effect of this document
>     does or does
>     not create a flag day for networks. Please consider updating these
>     sections to
>     be consistent with each other.
>
>
> Old text:  This change would otherwise create a flag day for existing 
> networks which are...
>
> New Text: Without the signaling described below, this change would 
> otherwise create a flag day for existing networks which are currently 
> using 0x63 as the RPI value.
>
> Additionally, new text was added in Section 3.1.
>
> Thanks,
>
> The authors.
>
>


--------------6843D8780CF0B36845FC5DAD
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks! This looks good.</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">/a<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/17/19 4:13 AM, Ines Robles wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP+sJUeVxRWpw558AGKMKqvmdf806QC0CsL1VHP=v7+Xhg8fuA@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">Hi Adam,
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Thank you for your review. We have submitted a new
            version with corrections. Please find answer in-line.</div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 7:27
            AM Adam Roach via Datatracker &lt;<a
              href="mailto:noreply@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt;
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
            COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
            <br>
            Thanks to everyone who worked on this document. I have only
            one minor comment.<br>
            <br>
            I'm a bit perplexed by the interplay between sections 3.1
            and 3.3.<br>
            <br>
            Section 3.1 says:<br>
            <br>
            &gt;  This change creates a flag day for existing networks
            which are<br>
            &gt;  currently using 0x63 as the RPI value.<br>
            <br>
            And then section 3.3 says:<br>
            <br>
            &gt;  In order to avoid a Flag Day caused by lack of
            interoperation between<br>
            &gt;  new RPI (0x23) and old RPI (0x63) nodes, this section
            defines a flag<br>
            &gt;  in the DIO Configuration Option...<br>
            <br>
            Which leaves me wondering whether the net effect of this
            document does or does<br>
            not create a flag day for networks. Please consider updating
            these sections to<br>
            be consistent with each other.<br>
          </blockquote>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Old text: <span style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap"> This change would otherwise create a flag day for existing networks which are...</span></div>
          <span
            id="gmail-docs-internal-guid-57bb724d-7fff-64c9-041a-a3d68463e682">
            <p dir="ltr"
              style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span></p>
            <p dir="ltr"
              style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">New Text: Without the signaling described below, this change would otherwise
 create a flag day for existing networks which are currently using
 0x63 as the RPI value.</span></p>
            <p
              style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Additionally, new text was added in Section 3.1.</span></p>
            <p
              style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">Thanks,</span></p>
            <p
              style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:16pt"><span style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10.5pt;white-space:pre-wrap">The authors.</span><br>
            </p>
          </span><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div> </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
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From nobody Sat May 18 07:36:00 2019
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Subject: Re: [Roll] RaF vs RAN as a TLA
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Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
    > =E2=80=9CHost=E2=80=9D is a great word for a thing that is not a rout=
er.

Point taken, and I want to go further with this.

    > If you call RPL-unaware things =E2=80=9Chosts=E2=80=9D, you reclaim t=
he term =E2=80=9CLeaf=E2=80=9D for
    > routers that don=E2=80=99t forward (=E2=80=9Cleaf router=E2=80=9D in =
long form).

The key point in useofrplinfo was that the *Host* was something that could
not understand the IPIP headers that we need in some places.

From=20reading roll-unaware-leaves, there is some ambiguity between Hosts
that choose not to participate in the routing mesh, and those that are
incapable of understanding the RPL artifacts.  I feel that a Host is
in the later category.

I am specifically thinking about a subsystem that might use ethernet
or PPP between Hosts, but have an edge device that speaks LLN.  The internal
nodes would be hosts, but the edge device would be RUL, but still a router.
The lack of connectivity might be more about range rather than power
(such as the window smash detector)

    > Look, ma, no abbrevs.

I'm specifically offering to change useofrplinfo's acronyms to match
roll-unaware-leaves.   It's at the IESG, but that change in terminology wou=
ld
likely not have a signfiicant effect.

I resisted calling ~RAF =3D=3D Hosts because I was concerned I'd confuse th=
ings worse.
I was trying to get processing of IPIP headers (where both IPdst=3Dself) in=
to
the revised IPv6 Host requirements document, but it seemed like a really big
fight, and I was busy.  Had I succeeded, then calling them Hosts would have
been good.

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




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Charlie Perkins <charles.perkins@earthlink.net> wrote:
    > I think that using 'f' for "leaf" isn't right. What's wrong with 'l' - or
    > (typographically better) 'L'?

I have no strong recollection as to why we went with RaF rather than RaL.
I wonder if it was a typo that seemed to make sense at the time.

    > Also, I think that "RPL-unaware" would be much better than "not-RPL-aware".
    > And, then, "RuL' instead of the twiddly thing.

I feel the same way too.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-




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Subject: Re: [Roll] RaF vs RAN as a TLA
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Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
    > Btw I agree with Michael =E2=80=98s proposal.

    >> I'm specifically offering to change useofrplinfo's acronyms to match
    >> roll-unaware-leaves.   It's at the IESG, but that change in terminol=
ogy would
    >> likely not have a signfiicant effect.

Are there objections to this proposal.

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




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From nobody Sun May 19 17:43:39 2019
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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] clarification on rfc6206
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Hi Francisco,

I must be greater than Imin based on rule 1 and 5. But note that in step6, =
I could be set to Imin on resetting the timer and then a node, in this stat=
e, could hear an inconsistent transmission yet again. In such case, step 6 =
will hit the condition after seeing (inconsistent transmission && I =3D=3D =
Imin) and at this stage, there is no point in resetting the timer again.

Regards,
Rahul


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of francisco javier
> sanchez-roselly
> Sent: 17 May 2019 19:56
> To: roll@ietf.org
> Subject: [Roll] clarification on rfc6206
>=20
> hi All, a minor question on section 4.2.
>=20
> rule 6 states that to reset Trickle, I must be greater than Imin, but thi=
s
> condition always verifies because of rules 1 and 5.
>=20
> is this redundant or I should be t in rule 6?
>=20
> thanks, regards.
>=20
> francisco javier sanchez-roselly
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


From nobody Mon May 20 14:04:34 2019
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Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Using RPL Option Type, Routing Header for Source Routes and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation in the RPL Data Plane
        Authors         : Maria Ines Robles
                          Michael C. Richardson
                          Pascal Thubert
	Filename        : draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29.txt
	Pages           : 54
	Date            : 2019-05-20

Abstract:
   This document looks at different data flows through LLN (Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) where RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) is used to establish routing.  The document
   enumerates the cases where RFC6553 (RPL Option Type), RFC6554
   (Routing Header for Source Routes) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation is
   required in data plane.  This analysis provides the basis on which to
   design efficient compression of these headers.  This document updates
   RFC6553 adding a change to the RPL Option Type.  Additionally, this
   document updates RFC6550 defining a flag in the DIO Configuration
   Option to indicate about this change and updates RFC8138 as well to
   consider the new Option Type when the RPL Option is decompressed.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Tue May 21 22:31:39 2019
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Subject: [Roll] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-10
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Reviewer: Brian Weis
Review result: Has Issues

I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing
effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments
were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. Document
editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call
comments.

This document addresses a reliability problem with removing routes in RPL.
Currently, when a node in the network determines to change the route by which
data is delivered to itself, it sends an “add route” message (DAO) to the new
upstream adjacency indicating that this its new route. It also sends a “delete
route” message (NPDAO)  to the old upstream adjacency indicating that the old
route is to be torn down. Both the DAO and NPDAO are to be forwarded upstream
by the receiving adjacencies until they reach a common ancestor. However, if
the NPDAO message gets lost then data sent to the node may fail because the its
no longer listening the adjacency beginning the old path.

To solve this reliability problem, this document defines a new Destination
Cleanup Option (DCO) message that is initiated from a common parent to both the
old and new routes. When the common ancestor sees a request to send a DCO come
upstream from a node, it creates and sends a DCO down the path where the NPDAO
should have come. Thus, the new DCO downsteam message should make up for a loss
of a potential lost NPDAO upstream message.

RPL is a distance vector protocol. In most distance vector protocols, each node
summarizes its routing table and sends the summary to their peers. From a
security perspective, the peers receiving these messages can at best validate
that the information was provided by a trusted peer but they cannot validate
whether the routing summary or any other information in the message (e.g, the
message header) is accurate or not. They cannot validate messages sent from a
“peer of a peer” or further along the graph. So if any previous node  in the
graph lied than the lie is propagated. I believe RPL also works this way,
although I’d be happy to be corrected and it could change the results of this
review.

>From a security considerations perspective then, we can’t usually expect more
than for a node to validate that a trusted peer has sent this data. RPL can
validate this using a MAC (keyed by either a group or pair-wise key,  or a
digital signature. This document describes these options, and this is good.
However, note that there doesn't seem to be a facility for verifying that any
part of the message propagated by a "peer of a peer", etc. is accurate.

However, I believe that the network flow of this DCO brings in some additional
risks in the context of a distance vector protocol.  The security
considerations does mention that a rogue ancestor could imitate a malicious
route invalidation, and that’s a good statement. But I think the risk goes
beyond that.

This document adds a signal (the “I” bit) to an upstream RPL routing message.
This “I” bit indicates that any ancestor should invalidate any previous routes
that it has.  The intent is for the node initiating a legitimate routing change
to request an ancestor having more than one downstream route to that node to
send a DCO down the old route. But if any node along the path can create this
header, then not only the initiating node can add the "I" bit — any malicious
node forwarding the RPL frame upstream can also add it. That would (I think for
the first time) allow a malicious node to explicitly cause another off-path
route to be destroyed — potentially leaving a target with no routes to it at
all. This attack should be described in the security considerations as a risk. 
It’s at a very least a problem when all of the nodes share a MAC key, and if
I’m correct that only neighbor MACs or signatures are verified in RPL then it’s
a problem even if the secure version of messages is deployed because a “peer of
a peer” or earlier node could have added the “I” bit.

Another aspect of this new network flow is that previously a node could have
protected itself from attacks deleting routes by only accepting a change of
route from an adjacency representing the routed path. Spoofed “delete path”
messages could be ignored from other adjacencies. That seems no longer possible
with the DCO, since by definition it comes downstream rather than upstream
direction from the node (possibly) changing its routes. If there’s any
operational mitigation possible by which a node could protect itself against
spoofed “delete path” messages then this should be added to security
considerations.


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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Projected routes and RFC 8138
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Subject: [Roll] Projected routes and RFC 8138
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Dear all

I'm willing to add text on the DAO projection draft to discuss RFC 8138. RF=
C 8138 was designed for RPL as it stands and optimizes P in IP compression =
for the case where either the source or destination of IP in IP is the root=
.

IP in IP
--------
An implementation is used to 1) IP in IP with SRH from the root to the last=
 node indicated in the SRH or 2) IP in IP with no SRH from the node indicat=
ed as encapsulator to (implicitely) the root.
For DAO projection we will use an SRH from the node indicated as encapsulat=
or to the last node indicated in the SRH, which is a mix of the above. It i=
s compatible with RFC8138 but possibly untried with existing code.
My suggestion is to represent an example packet that has IP in IP and SRH a=
nd none of the outer IPs is the root

RPI
----
RPI flags and Rank are useless along the projected route. On the other hand=
, we could use a new flag in the RPI to indicated that the route is a proje=
cted route in the non-storing case.
Seems to me that we could propose an additional RPI encoding that :

  *   Is inspired from the existing RPI compression but is elective
  *   Does not contain a Rank information nor the flags
  *   May Indicate projected route, another thread on that

What to others think?

Pascal

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#8217;m willing to add text on the DAO projection =
draft to discuss RFC 8138. RFC 8138 was designed for RPL as it stands and o=
ptimizes P in IP compression for the case where either the source or destin=
ation of IP in IP is the root.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IP in IP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">An implementation is used to 1) IP in IP with SRH fr=
om the root to the last node indicated in the SRH or 2) IP in IP with no SR=
H from the node indicated as encapsulator to (implicitely) the root.<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For DAO projection we will use an SRH from the node =
indicated as encapsulator to the last node indicated in the SRH, which is a=
 mix of the above. It is compatible with RFC8138 but possibly untried with =
existing code.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My suggestion is to represent an example packet that=
 has IP in IP and SRH and none of the outer IPs is the root<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">RPI<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">RPI flags and Rank are useless along the projected r=
oute. On the other hand, we could use a new flag in the RPI to indicated th=
at the route is a projected route in the non-storing case.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Seems to me that we could propose an additional RPI =
encoding that :<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2">Is inspired from the existing RPI compression but is elective<o:p></o=
:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1=
 level1 lfo2">Does not contain a Rank information nor the flags<o:p></o:p><=
/li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 lev=
el1 lfo2">May Indicate projected route, another thread on that<o:p></o:p></=
li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What to others think?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: =?Windows-1252?Q?route_preference_using_an__=93administrative_distance=94?= =?Windows-1252?Q?_?=
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--_000_MN2PR11MB35659BC47BDEB520A71BA473D8010MN2PR11MB3565namp_
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Dear all

The general idea in PDAO is that a projected route has precedence over a sa=
me route obtained from the distributed instance but the =93administrative d=
istance=94 involved in that process is not really specified. We could also =
use text to indicate that longest match wins against =93administrative dist=
ance=94.

My question is: should we indicate the =93administrative distance=94 in the=
 PDAO or keep it all implicit? Implicit saves space but implies that all P =
Routes have the same =93administrative distance=94, which is better than al=
l distributed instances. Maybe we=92re losing an important capability by no=
t signaling the =93administrative distance=94.

Note that a same =93administrative distance=94 could be placed in the DIO c=
onfiguration in order to set the precedence between routes obtained from se=
veral instances, and projected routes.

My suggestion is to write a small draft on that. What do you think?

Pascal


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The general idea in PDAO is that a projected route h=
as precedence over a same route obtained from the distributed instance but =
the =93administrative distance=94 involved in that process is not really sp=
ecified. We could also use text to indicate
 that longest match wins against =93administrative distance=94. <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My question is: should we indicate the =93administra=
tive distance=94 in the PDAO or keep it all implicit? Implicit saves space =
but implies that all P Routes have the same =93administrative distance=94, =
which is better than all distributed instances.
 Maybe we=92re losing an important capability by not signaling the =93admin=
istrative distance=94.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note that a same =93administrative distance=94 could=
 be placed in the DIO configuration in order to set the precedence between =
routes obtained from several instances, and projected routes.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My suggestion is to write a small draft on that. Wha=
t do you think?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
CC: "Li Zhao (liz3)" <liz3@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: projected route or not?
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Subject: [Roll] projected route or not?
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Dear all

In case of an error in a P-route, the node that discovers an error notifies=
 the root with a new ICMP "Error in Projected Route".
In the case of a storing mode PDAO, this is determined by the type of the r=
oute with the highest precedence in the routing able. But for non-storing, =
it is hard to fathom.

Possible solutions:

  *   it could be  implicit for any source route that does not originate fr=
om the root. But then, this may create a confusion in a future specificatio=
n.
  *   update RFC 6550, RFC 6553 and RFC 8138 to add a flag in the RPI indic=
ating projected route
  *   update RFC 6550, RFC 6554 and RFC 8138 to add a flag in the SRH indic=
ating projected route
  *   encode that information implicitely in the instance ID by telling the=
 nodes that a range of instance IDs are reserved for P DAO
  *   do not use "Error in Projected Route" to the root for non-storing P D=
AO. RPL has an ICMPv6 "error in Source Routing Header" message that is sent=
 to the source of the packet. But that means that the packet goes to the so=
urce which then can notify the root. This is quite inefficient when the net=
work is non storing.
  *   ?

What do you think?

Pascal

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In case of an error in a P-route, the node that disc=
overs an error notifies the root with a new ICMP &quot;Error in Projected R=
oute&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the case of a storing mode PDAO, this is determin=
ed by the type of the route with the highest precedence in the routing able=
. But for non-storing, it is hard to fathom.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Possible solutions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1">it could be&nbsp; implicit for any source route that does not origina=
te from the root. But then, this may create a confusion in a future specifi=
cation.
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso=
-list:l0 level1 lfo1">update RFC 6550, RFC 6553 and RFC 8138 to add a flag =
in the RPI indicating projected route<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListPa=
ragraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">update RFC 6550,=
 RFC 6554 and RFC 8138 to add a flag in the SRH indicating projected route<=
o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-=
list:l0 level1 lfo1">encode that information implicitely in the instance ID=
 by telling the nodes that a range of instance IDs are reserved for P DAO<o=
:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-l=
ist:l0 level1 lfo1">do not use &quot;Error in Projected Route&quot; to the =
root for non-storing P DAO. RPL has an ICMPv6 &#8220;error in Source Routin=
g Header&#8221; message that is sent to the source of the packet. But that
 means that the packet goes to the source which then can notify the root. T=
his is quite inefficient when the network is non storing.<o:p></o:p></li><l=
i class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lf=
o1">?<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What do you think?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 13:25:12 +0200
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To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Projected routes and RFC 8138
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I think adding new flag is a good idea.

AB

On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 8:12 AM Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <
pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:

> Dear all
>
>
>
> *   I=E2=80=99m willing to add text on the DAO projection draft to discus=
s RFC
> 8138. RFC 8138 was designed for RPL as it stands and optimizes P in IP
> compression for the case where either the source or destination of IP in =
IP
> is the root.   IP in IP -------- An implementation is used to 1) IP in IP
> with SRH from the root to the last node indicated in the SRH or 2) IP in =
IP
> with no SRH from the node indicated as encapsulator to (implicitely) the
> root. For DAO projection we will use an SRH from the node indicated as
> encapsulator to the last node indicated in the SRH, which is a mix of the
> above. It is compatible with RFC8138 but possibly untried with existing
> code. My suggestion is to represent an example packet that has IP in IP a=
nd
> SRH and none of the outer IPs is the root   RPI ---- RPI flags and Rank a=
re
> useless along the projected route. On the other hand, we could use a new
> flag in the RPI to indicated that the route is a projected route in the
> non-storing case. Seems to me that we could propose an additional RPI
> encoding that : - Is inspired from the existing RPI compression but is
> elective- Does not contain a Rank information nor the flags- May Indicate
> projected route, another thread on that   What to others think?   Pascal =
*
>
>
>
>
> * _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org <Roll@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll> *

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I think adding new flag is a good idea.</div><div><br=
></div><div>AB</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmai=
l_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 8:12 AM Pascal Thubert (pthuber=
t) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width=
:1px;border-left-style:solid">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-8085669637826898971WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99m willing to add text on the DAO projectio=
n draft to discuss RFC 8138. RFC 8138 was designed for RPL as it stands and=
 optimizes P in IP compression for the case where either the source or dest=
ination of IP in IP is the root.<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IP in IP<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--------<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">An implementation is used to 1) IP in IP with SRH fr=
om the root to the last node indicated in the SRH or 2) IP in IP with no SR=
H from the node indicated as encapsulator to (implicitely) the root.<u><u><=
/u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For DAO projection we will use an SRH from the node =
indicated as encapsulator to the last node indicated in the SRH, which is a=
 mix of the above. It is compatible with RFC8138 but possibly untried with =
existing code.<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My suggestion is to represent an example packet that=
 has IP in IP and SRH and none of the outer IPs is the root<u><u></u></u></=
p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">RPI<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">----<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">RPI flags and Rank are useless along the projected r=
oute. On the other hand, we could use a new flag in the RPI to indicated th=
at the route is a projected route in the non-storing case.
<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Seems to me that we could propose an additional RPI =
encoding that :<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<ul type=3D"disc" style=3D"margin-top:0cm">
<li class=3D"gmail-m_-8085669637826898971MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-=
left:0cm">Is inspired from the existing RPI compression but is elective<u><=
u></u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_-8085669637826898971MsoListParagraph" s=
tyle=3D"margin-left:0cm"><u><u>Does not contain a Rank information nor the =
flags<u><u></u></u></u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_-8085669637826898971Ms=
oListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><u><u><u>May Indicate projected r=
oute, another thread on that<u><u></u></u></u></u></u></li></ul><u><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What to others think?<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u=
></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></=
u></u></div><u><u><u>
</u></u></u></div><u><u><u>

_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br>
</u></u></u></blockquote></div>

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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>, "Li Zhao (liz3)" <liz3@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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Dear all

As you know, we have a configuration option in standard RPL. It is used by =
useofrplinfo to trigger the use of option x23 and by https://tools.ietf.org=
/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00 to trigger the use of RFC 8138 c=
ompression.

This must not be confused with the capability draft in draft-rahul-roll-mop=
-ext which is how the nodes and the root share on what capabilities they ha=
ve. A configuration is a flat order from the root, the capability is an exc=
hange of information.

In order to decide whether  it can safely set the config flags, it would be=
 good that the root knows about the node capabilities such as route project=
ion, RFC 8138 compression and option x23 for RPI. So I thought that the nod=
e could expose that capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in the dra=
ft already.

For route projection, we could include a number of routes that the node can=
 store, using a number like 10 hops max for non-storing PDAOs.

Wat do you think?

Pascal

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As you know, we have a configuration option in stand=
ard RPL. It is used by useofrplinfo to trigger the use of option x23 and by
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00=
">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00</a> to t=
rigger the use of RFC 8138 compression.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This must not be confused with the capability draft =
in draft-rahul-roll-mop-ext which is how the nodes and the root share on wh=
at capabilities they have. A configuration is a flat order from the root, t=
he capability is an exchange of information.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In order to decide whether&nbsp; it can safely set t=
he config flags, it would be good that the root knows about the node capabi=
lities such as route projection, RFC 8138 compression and option x23 for RP=
I. So I thought that the node could expose
 that capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in the draft already.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For route projection, we could include a number of r=
outes that the node can store, using a number like 10 hops max for non-stor=
ing PDAOs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Wat do you think?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Root initiated routing state in RPL
        Authors         : Pascal Thubert
                          Rahul Arvind Jadhav
                          Matthew Gillmore
                          James Pylakutty
	Filename        : draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-06.txt
	Pages           : 25
	Date            : 2019-05-24

Abstract:
   This document extends RFC 6550, RFC 6553 and RFC 8138 and enable to
   install a limited amount of centrally-computed routes in a RPL graph,
   enabling loose source routing down a non-storing mode DODAG, or
   transversal routes inside the DODAG.  In constrast with classical
   routes in RPL that are injected by the end devices, this draft
   enables the root of the DODAG to projects the routes that are needed
   on the nodes where they should be installed.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>, "Li Zhao (liz3)" <liz3@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: capability vs. configuration
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Date: Sat, 25 May 2019 01:17:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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As you know, we have a configuration option in standard RPL. It is used by =
useofrplinfo to trigger the use of option x23 and by https://tools.ietf.org=
/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00 to trigger the use of RFC 8138 c=
ompression.

This must not be confused with the capability draft in draft-rahul-roll-mop=
-ext which is how the nodes and the root share on what capabilities they ha=
ve. A configuration is a flat order from the root, the capability is an exc=
hange of information.

[RJ] By flat order, I assume you mean that all the nodes either support it =
or they don't. There are no mixed nodes. In this case, yes, this is a candi=
date for existing configuration option rather than capabilities. I read the=
 draft and I believe this to be true.

In order to decide whether  it can safely set the config flags, it would be=
 good that the root knows about the node capabilities such as route project=
ion, RFC 8138 compression and option x23 for RPI. So I thought that the nod=
e could expose that capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in the dra=
ft already.

[RJ] So the root is expected to set the T-flag after learning the nodes cap=
abilities after the initial DIO-DAO round .. is this right? i.e. once the r=
oot learns that all nodes are 8138 capable then it sets the T-flag in the s=
ubsequent DIO (possibly after DTSN increment)? What happens if a node sprin=
gs up later and announces that it does not support 8138 after the T-flag wa=
s turned on by the root ?

For route projection, we could include a number of routes that the node can=
 store, using a number like 10 hops max for non-storing PDAOs.

[RJ] Yes this could be done and will help route projection.


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As you know, we have a configuration option in stand=
ard RPL. It is used by useofrplinfo to trigger the use of option x23 and by
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00=
">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00</a> to t=
rigger the use of RFC 8138 compression.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This must not be confused with the capability draft =
in draft-rahul-roll-mop-ext which is how the nodes and the root share on wh=
at capabilities they have. A configuration is a flat order from the root, t=
he capability is an exchange of information.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[RJ] By flat order, I =
assume you mean that all the nodes either support it or they don&#8217;t. T=
here are no mixed nodes. In this case, yes, this is a candidate for existin=
g configuration option rather than capabilities.
 I read the draft and I believe this to be true. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In order to decide whether&nbsp; it can safely set t=
he config flags, it would be good that the root knows about the node capabi=
lities such as route projection, RFC 8138 compression and option x23 for RP=
I. So I thought that the node could expose
 that capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in the draft already.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[RJ] So the root is ex=
pected to set the T-flag after learning the nodes capabilities after the in=
itial DIO-DAO round .. is this right? i.e. once the root learns that all no=
des are 8138 capable then it sets the
 T-flag in the subsequent DIO (possibly after DTSN increment)? What happens=
 if a node springs up later and announces that it does not support 8138 aft=
er the T-flag was turned on by the root ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For route projection, we could include a number of r=
outes that the node can store, using a number like 10 hops max for non-stor=
ing PDAOs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[RJ] Yes this could be=
 done and will help route projection.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
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--_000_982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DEC42B2BLREML503MBXchi_--


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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Brian Weis <bew.stds@gmail.com>, "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao.all@ietf.org>, "roll@ietf.org" <roll@ietf.org>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-10
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-10
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Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-11.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Efficient Route Invalidation
        Authors         : Rahul Arvind Jadhav
                          Pascal Thubert
                          Rabi Narayan Sahoo
                          Zhen Cao
	Filename        : draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-11.txt
	Pages           : 22
	Date            : 2019-05-25

Abstract:
   This document describes the problems associated with No-Path
   Destination Advertisement Object (NPDAO) messaging used in Routing
   Protocol for Low power and lossy networks (RPL) for route
   invalidation and signaling changes to improve route invalidation
   efficiency.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-11
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-11

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-11


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Date: Sat, 25 May 2019 16:30:34 +0530
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Subject: [Roll] Issue with MPL Option in IPv6 fragments
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--00000000000018e2b40589b43a51
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Deal All
As per RFC 7731 MPL Option is carried in MPL Data Messages in an IPv6
Hop-by-Hop Options header, immediately following the IPv6 header.
This option carries sequence number and seed id that will be used by MPL
forwarders in the MPL domain to determine if the received data message
is new or duplicate one.

If an UDP based application sends multicast packet whose payload size is >
1280 bytes (Minimum IPv6 MTU) it will result into of fragmentation of the
IPv6 packet.
As per RFC 8200 hop-by-hop header is part of the Per-fragment-header and
will be same for all the fragments. In this case the fragments of multicast
IPv6 packet will have the same sequence number in the MPL option. Once MPL
forwarder receives any of these fragments it will consider the rest of the
fragments as duplicate
one and drop. This will lead to the loss of the multicast message.

Thanks
Rabi

--00000000000018e2b40589b43a51
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Deal All<div>As per RFC 7731=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb=
(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">MPL Option is carried in MPL Data Messages in =
an IPv6 Hop-by-Hop</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333p=
x">=C2=A0Options header, immediately following the IPv6 header.</span></div=
><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">This option carr=
ies sequence number and seed id that will be used by=C2=A0</span><font colo=
r=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">MPL forwarders in the MPL=
 domain to determine if the received data message=C2=A0</span></font></div>=
<div><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">is new or =
duplicate=C2=A0one.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#0=
00000"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">If an UDP based application send=
s multicast packet whose payload size is &gt; 1280 bytes (Minimum IPv6 MTU)=
 it will result into of fragmentation of the IPv6 packet.</span></font></di=
v><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">As per R=
FC 8200 hop-by-hop header is part of the Per-fragment-header and will be sa=
me for all the fragments. In this case the fragments of multicast IPv6 pack=
et will have the same sequence number in the MPL option. Once MPL forwarder=
 receives any of these fragments it will consider the rest of the fragments=
 as duplicate</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px">one and drop. This will lead to the loss of the mu=
lticast message.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></div><div>Thanks</div><div>Rab=
i</div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">=C2=
=A0</span></font></div></div>

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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: projected route or not?
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Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 01:19:32 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Roll] projected route or not?
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Hi Pascal,

Just for my understanding, the points mentioned below are on how to handle =
the projected routes failure during installation using PDAO and handle the =
partially projected route cleanup and notification to the root. As I unders=
tand, the partial cleanup currently is left to the root (possibly by using =
PDAO(lifetime=3D0)) once the root is notified of the failure.
Post-installation, the projected path may fail and also needs cleanup and n=
otification to root. Is this also part of this discussion?

The way I see it, there are overall 4 scenarios and 4 requirements for proj=
ected route cleanup:

Scenarios:

1.       Network is in Storing MOP, and the PDAO could be storing or non-st=
oring

2.       Network is in non-storing MOP, and PDAO could be storing or non-st=
oring

Requirements for projected route cleanup:

1.       During Installation of routes

a.       Notification to the root

b.      Cleanup of partially installed routes. (Root cleans up once notifie=
d of the failure?)

2.       Post-installation failure of routes

a.       Notification to the root

b.      Cleanup of projected routes

Network base MOP

PDAO type

During installation

Post Installation

Notification

Partial-PDAO Cleanup

Notification

Cleanup

Storing

Storing-PDAO









Non-storing PDAO









Non-storing

Storing-PDAO









Non-storing PDAO










I am not proposing my views on the solution here, but just trying to layout=
 the full picture for error handling and trying to check if the understandi=
ng is ok.

Regards,
Rahul

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthu=
bert)
Sent: 23 May 2019 16:21
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Cc: Li Zhao (liz3) <liz3@cisco.com>
Subject: [Roll] projected route or not?

Dear all

In case of an error in a P-route, the node that discovers an error notifies=
 the root with a new ICMP "Error in Projected Route".
In the case of a storing mode PDAO, this is determined by the type of the r=
oute with the highest precedence in the routing able.. But for non-storing,=
 it is hard to fathom.

Possible solutions:
-          it could be  implicit for any source route that does not origina=
te from the root. But then, this may create a confusion in a future specifi=
cation.
-          update RFC 6550, RFC 6553 and RFC 8138 to add a flag in the RPI =
indicating projected route
-          update RFC 6550, RFC 6554 and RFC 8138 to add a flag in the SRH =
indicating projected route
-          encode that information implicitely in the instance ID by tellin=
g the nodes that a range of instance IDs are reserved for P DAO
-          do not use "Error in Projected Route" to the root for non-storin=
g P DAO. RPL has an ICMPv6 "error in Source Routing Header" message that is=
 sent to the source of the packet. But that means that the packet goes to t=
he source which then can notify the root. This is quite inefficient when th=
e network is non storing.
-          ?

What do you think?

Pascal

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Pascal,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Just for my understand=
ing, the points mentioned below are on how to handle the projected routes f=
ailure during installation using PDAO and handle the partially projected ro=
ute cleanup and notification to the
 root. As I understand, the partial cleanup currently is left to the root (=
possibly by using PDAO(lifetime=3D0)) once the root is notified of the fail=
ure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Post-installation, the=
 projected path may fail and also needs cleanup and notification to root. I=
s this also part of this discussion?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The way I see it, ther=
e are overall 4 scenarios and 4 requirements for projected route cleanup:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Scenarios:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"=
mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Network is in =
Storing MOP, and the PDAO could be storing or non-storing<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"=
mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Network is in =
non-storing MOP, and PDAO could be storing or non-storing<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Requirements for proje=
cted route cleanup:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"=
mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">During Install=
ation of routes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Notification t=
o the root<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cleanup of par=
tially installed routes. (Root cleans up once notified of the failure?)<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"=
mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Post-installat=
ion failure of routes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Notification t=
o the root<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cleanup of pro=
jected routes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<table class=3D"MsoTableGrid" border=3D"1" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D=
"0" style=3D"border-collapse:collapse;border:none">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"104" rowspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border=
:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Network base MOP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"141" rowspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;borde=
r:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">PDAO type<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"198" colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:148.85pt;bord=
er:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">During installation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"190" colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:142.35pt;bord=
er:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Post Installation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Notification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Partial-PDAO Cleanup<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Notification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Cleanup<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"104" rowspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border=
:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Storing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"141" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Storing-PDAO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"141" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Non-storing PDAO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"104" rowspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border=
:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Non-storing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"141" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Storing-PDAO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"141" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Non-storing PDAO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I am not proposing my =
views on the solution here, but just trying to layout the full picture for =
error handling and trying to check if the understanding is ok.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Rahul<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <b>=
On Behalf Of
</b>Pascal Thubert (pthubert)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 23 May 2019 16:21<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;roll@ietf.org&gt;<=
br>
<b>Cc:</b> Li Zhao (liz3) &lt;liz3@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Roll] projected route or not?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In case of an error in a P-route, the node that disc=
overs an error notifies the root with a new ICMP &quot;Error in Projected R=
oute&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the case of a storing mode PDAO, this is determin=
ed by the type of the route with the highest precedence in the routing able=
.. But for non-storing, it is hard to fathom.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Possible solutions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-=
list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>it could be&nbsp; implicit for any source route tha=
t does not originate from the root. But then, this may create a confusion i=
n a future specification.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-=
list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>update RFC 6550, RFC 6553 and RFC 8138 to add a fla=
g in the RPI indicating projected route<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-=
list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>update RFC 6550, RFC 6554 and RFC 8138 to add a fla=
g in the SRH indicating projected route<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-=
list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>encode that information implicitely in the instance=
 ID by telling the nodes that a range of instance IDs are reserved for P DA=
O<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-=
list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>do not use &quot;Error in Projected Route&quot; to =
the root for non-storing P DAO. RPL has an ICMPv6 &#8220;error in Source Ro=
uting Header&#8221; message that is sent to the source of the packet. But t=
hat means that the packet goes to the source which then
 can notify the root. This is quite inefficient when the network is non sto=
ring.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-=
list:l2 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What do you think?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DEC489ABLREML503MBXchi_--


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To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00.txt
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Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
    > It was reported to me as a deployment issue that RFC 8138 creates a
    > backward compatibility issue when mixed with legacy RPL nodes that do
    > not support the compression.

Yes... I said exactly this would happen when we started this work.
I was told that a forklife upgrade of networks to RFC8138 was going to be
acceptable, but I guess this isn't the case :-)

    > RFC 8138 fails to provide a toggle that turns the compression down in
    > mixed environment. This blocks the deployment of newer versions that
    > actually support the draft.

    > I created a quick draft to fix that oversight. It's very short and I'd
    > appreciate if you can comment rapidly so we can answer the field
    > situation with a complete standard.

    > What do you think?

I think that the document needs to say that DIO messages can never be RFC8138
compressed, and I think that DAO's can't either, but I might have to think
about that some more.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-




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From: Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: capability vs. configuration
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From: "Li Zhao (liz3)" <liz3@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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--_000_A587F9B09F1A43079D3EC261D6EF566Aciscocom_--


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From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org, Peter Van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20190527042217.GL18546@prolepsis.kaduk.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-25: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:35:51AM +0300, Ines Robles wrote:
> Hi Benjamin,
> 
> Many Thanks for your detailed review. We have submitted a new version with
> corrections. Please find answers in-line.

Thanks; I'll go clear my position in the datatracker.
Further notes on the comments inline...

> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 4:53 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker <
> noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCUSS:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > There are several internal inconsistencies that needs to be
> > resolved before publication, specifically for:
> > (1) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows
> > from the Internet to a ~Raf -- Section 6.2.4 says addressed to the ~Raf,
> > but Figure 7 says "hop".
> >
> 
> <author> fixed to hop-by-hop </author>
> 
> 
> > (2) the destination address of the IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnel used for flows
> > from a ~Raf to a ~Raf -- Section 6.3.4 says addressed to the ~Raf, but
> > Figure 7 says "hop"
> >
> 
> <author> fixed to hop-by-hop </author>
> 
> (3) Table 14 says "(opt: RPI)" which, though not defined, I take to mean
> > as indicating that the insertion of the RPI is optional, but the body
> > text in Section 7.1.2 is unconditional that the 6LBR inserts an RPI
> > header
> >
> <author>fixed. Previous ideas was that downwards traffic could optionally
> omit the RPI, but RPI is needed for quality of service, so no longer
> optional</author>
> 
> 
> 
> > (4) Section 7.2.1 does not mention adding v6-in-v6 encapsulation, but
> > Figure 8 has a "must" in that column.
> >
> 
> <author> Corrected to: Table 8 “must” changed by “No”
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> > (5) Section 7.3.1 only has descriptive text that "[t]he originating node
> > should put the RPI into an IPv6-in-IPv6 header", but Figure 8 lists this
> > behavior as "must" (though there would also be a second v6-in-v6
> > encapsulationi from root to destination, which is clearly a must).
> > (Note that Section 7.3.2 covers essentially the same flow, but uses
> > "which must be in an IPv6-in-IPv6 header addressed to the root".)
> >
> 
> <author>Corrected to: The originating node must put the RPI into an
> IPv6-in-IPv6
> 
>                header addressed to the root </author>
> 
> 
> 
> > (6) In Section 5, we say that the DODAG root "SHOULD force [rank
> > information]
> > to zero" but then that "[t]he Internet will therefore not see any
> > SenderRank
> > information", and a SHOULD-level requirement is not enough to guarantee
> > this statement as fact.
> >
> 
> 
> <author> Corrected to: changed to MUST </author>
> 
> 
> >
> > Additionally, there are some terminology inconsistencies in Figures 7
> > and 8 that need to be cleaned up or explained.  For example, in Figure
> > 7, what is the difference between "Yes" and "must" in the "IPv6-in-IPv6"
> > column, and in the "v6-in-v6 dst" column, what does "root" mean?
> > In Figure 8, what does "Opt" mean in the "RPI" column?
> >
> 
> 
> <author> Corrected Figure 7 to:   ~Raf to ~Raf changed from “Yes” to “must” in
> the "IPv6-in-IPv6" column
> 
> Added in the text for figure 7: The root refers to the 6LBR.
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > COMMENT:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Section 1
> >
> >    An interim meeting went through the 24 cases defined here to discover
> >    if there were any shortcuts, and this document is the result of that
> >    discussion.  This document clarifies examples that intend to
> >    illustrate the result of the normative language in RFC8200 and
> >    RFC6553.  In other words, the examples are intended to be normative
> >    explanation of the results of executing that language.
> >
> > I agree with the GenART reviewer that this language is hard to parse
> > into useful expectations, and I'm not sure that the suggestion in
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/FnrfXDQ4ZmGniUpa2y-qKA6bkOg
> > helps very much.  In particular, what does it mean for an example to be
> > a "normative explanation"?
> >
> 
> <author>  New Paragraph: The ROLL WG analyzed how [RFC2460] rules apply to
> storing and non-
> 
>   storing use of RPL.  The result was 24 data plane use cases.  They
> 
>   are exhaustively outlined here in order to be completely unambiguous.
> 
>   During the processing of this document, new rules were published as
> 
>   [RFC8200], and this document was updated to reflect the normative
> 
>   changes in that document.
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Section 2
> >
> > As noted by the rtgdir reviewer, the volume of new terminology
> > introduced is rather extensive, and hard for a newcomer to overcome.
> >
> >    Flag Day: A transition that involves having a network with different
> >    values of RPL Option Type.  Thus the network does not work correctly.
> >
> > This does not match up with what I understood the colloquial definition
> > of "flag day" to be (i.e., the specific act of cutting over from old to
> > new, designed to minimize the duration of the transient period when the
> > network does not work correctly, with extensive planning and
> > coordination needed to effectuate a scheduled, as opposed to rolling,
> > cutover).  It seems that the later usage of the term "flag day" in this
> > document is internally consistent with the definition here, at least.
> >
> >    Hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6 headers: The term "hop-by-hop IPv6-in-IPv6"
> >    header refers to: adding a header that originates from a node to an
> >    adjacent node, using the addresses (usually the GUA or ULA, but could
> >    use the link-local addresses) of each node.  If the packet must
> >    traverse multiple hops, then it must be decapsulated at each hop, and
> >    then re-encapsulated again in a similar fashion.
> >
> > I'm not seeing where in the description the "IPv6-in-IPv6" nature is
> > used -- couldn't this description equally apply to regular hop-by-hop
> > IPv6 headers?  Is the distinction that the added header is specifically
> > on the *inner* IPv6 representation?
> >
> 
> <author> corrected to hop-by-hop re-encapsulation </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Section 3.1
> >
> >    Based on that, if an IPv6 (intermediate) node (RPL-not-capable)
> >    receives a packet with an RPL Option, it should ignore the HBH RPL
> >    option (skip over this option and continue processing the header).
> >    This is relevant, as it was mentioned previously, in the case that
> >    there is a flow from RPL-aware-leaf to Internet (see Section 6.2.1).
> >
> >    Thus, this document updates the Option Type field to: the two high
> >    order bits MUST be set to '00' and the third bit is equal to '1'.
> >
> > I am not sure that the "Thus" is appropriate -- as the secdir reviewer
> > notes, the logical connection is a bit tenuous, and the main connection
> > here seems to just be that 8200 endorses the concept of skipping over
> > some things, which gives us cover to use an option type that is
> > skippable.  But I'm probably misunderstanding here, and would welcome an
> > explanation of the nature of my confusion.
> >
> 
> <author> You have made the right conclusion.  How can we make the text
> clearer that your conclusion is the desired one?</author>

Perhaps, "Given the current consensus regarding processing of hop-by-hop
options by intermediate routers (in particular, that in many cases it is
acceptable to skip over such options), it is appropriate for this
document to embrace an expectation of skipping.  Accordingly, this
document updates the Option Type [...]"?

> >
> >    The non-storing mode case does not require the type change from 0x63
> >    to 0x23, as the root can always create the right packet.  The type
> >    change does not adversely affect the non-storing case.
> >
> > This section doesn't seem to explicitly call out the storing case for
> > special discussion.  Is there anything useful to say about it?
> >
> 
> <author> The above paragraph is part of the discussion/analysis of why/when
> the type change is justified.  The downward non-storing case does not
> specifically benefit, because it always has to add an IPv6-in-IPv6 header,
> and it can always address the traffic in such a way that the header can be
> removed.  However, in both storing and non-storing cases, the traffic from
> RPL nodes to the Internet (MP2P traffic, i.e. sensor traffic) benefit from
> simpler processing by being able to leave the RPI header in place for the
> transit across the Internet.  If it would be simpler, the above paragraph
> could be removed.</author>

I am happy to see this paragraph stay as-is; I just wanted to check if
there was anything else to add, but it sounds like there is not.

> >
> > Section 3.2
> >
> >                                                          The node will
> >    know which to use based upon the presence of the DODAG Configuration
> >    Option described in the next section.  [...]
> >
> > nit: is it the mere *presence* of the DODAG Configuration Option, or the
> > information contained therein, that is relevant for this decision?
> >
> 
> <author> Corrected to: based upon the presence of the flag in the DIO
> Configuration Option defined
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >    There are potential significant advantages to having a single code
> >    path that always processes IPv6-in-IPv6 headers with no options.
> >
> > nit(?): There seems to be potential ambiguity about whether "no options"
> > means "no IPv6 options" or "no conditional branches in the processing
> > flow".
> >
> > I'm also not entirely sure how this sentence is supposed to tie in to
> > the rest of the section.
> >
> 
> <author> “no conditional branches in the processing flow” is intended.  We
> have changed the ambiguity.</author>
> 
> >
> > Figure 3 is pretty sparsely annotated.
> >
> <author> Figure 3 was changed for the correct one. </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 4
> >
> > In Figure 5, why does the line from D to B have an arrowhead but none of
> > the other lines do?
> >
> 
> <author> fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 5
> >
> >    NOTE: There is some possible security risk when the RPI information
> >    is released to the Internet.  At this point this is a theoretical
> >    situation; no clear attack has been described.  At worst, it is clear
> >    that the RPI option would waste some network bandwidth when it
> >    escapes.  This is traded off against the savings in the LLN by not
> >    having to encapsulate the packet in order to remove the artifact.
> >
> > The risk seems open-ended given the potential for sub-TLVs in the RPI.
> > Where would a potential author of a new sub-TLV look to get guidance on
> > the potential security risks from having the sub-TLV contents released
> > to the internet?  Is there something useful we could add via this
> > document?
> >
> 
> <author>The answer: There is no TLV present in the RPI. Consuming space in
> the ipv6 header and it might consume of resources in the routers.
> 
> </author>

I'm not sure what is meant by "There is no TLV present in the RPI" --
I was looking at Figure 1 from RFC 6553, that does show a space for
"(sub-TLVs)".  Was I looking in the wrong place?

> 
> 
> > Also, I agree with the secdir reviewer that "at worst" should be "at a
> > minimum".
> >
> 
> <author> fixed </author>
> 
> 
> >
> >    Despite being legal to leave the RPI artifact in place, an
> >    intermediate router that needs to add an extension header (RH3 or RPI
> >    Option) MUST still encapsulate the packet in an (additional) outer IP
> >    header.  The new header is placed after this new outer IP header.
> >
> > I didn't think that "RH3 or RPI Option" was an exhaustive list, and
> > isn't this duplicating a requirement from another specification anyway?
> > (That is, the "MUST" is probably not appropriate.)
> >
> 
> 
> <author> This entire document is repeating RFC8200 rules with specific
> examples, so that nobody will be confused. We inserted “e.g.”</author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >    RPI MUST be present in every single RPL data packet.  There is one
> >    exception in non-storing mode: when a packet is going down from the
> >    root the RPI MAY be omitted.  The rational is that in a downward non-
> >
> > This "MUST be present [...] one exception" is not a great way to phrase
> > things.  Collapsing into the same sentence with a comma "MUST be present
> > [...], with one execption: [...]" would help some, but it may even be
> > possible to use descriptive rather than normative language.
> >
> 
> <author> since RPI is no longer optional. We deleted that part. </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > nit: s/rational/rationale/
> >
> 
> <author> fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 6
> >
> >    The following table (Figure 7) itemizes which headers are needed in
> >    each of the following scenarios.  It indicate if an IPv6-in-IPv6
> >    header must be inserted, and whether the destination address of the
> >    IPv6-in-IPv6 header is the next hop, or the final target address.
> >    There are these possible situations: hop-by-hop necessary (indicated
> >    by "hop"), or final target address possible (indicated by "tgt").  In
> >    all cases hop by hop may be used rather than the final target
> >    address.
> >
> > nit: we could probably make a stronger rhetorical connection betweeen
> > "the destination address is the next hop" and "hop-by-hop necessary" --
> > these tables are pretty complicated as-is, so every bit helps!
> >
> 
> <author> New Paragraph:  The following table (Figure 7) itemizes which
> headers are needed in
> 
>   each of the following scenarios.  It indicates if the IPv6-in-IPv6
> 
>   header that is added, must be addressed to the final destination (the
> 
>   Raf node that is the target(tgt)), to the "root" or if a hop-by-hop
> 
>   header must be added (indicated by "hop").
> 
> 
> The tables were fixed to be clearer.
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >    In each case, 6LR_i are the intermediate routers from source to
> >    destination.  "1 <= i <= n", n is the number of routers (6LR) that
> >    the packet go through from source (6LN) to destination.
> >
> > nit: singular/plural mismatch with "packet" and "go through"
> >
> <author> fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 6.1.1
> >
> >    For example, a communication flow could be: Node F --> Node E -->
> >    Node B --> Node A root(6LBR)
> >
> > I think maybe a directorate reviewer already noted, but it seems that
> > node D was intended rather than node E.
> >
> <author> fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 6.2.2
> >
> > Should we say what the IPv6-in-IPv6 destination address is set to in
> > this case?
> >
> 
> <author> Corrected To:
> 
> When the packet arrives from Internet to 6LBR the RPI header is added
>    in a outer IPv6-in-IPv6 header (with the IPv6-in-IPv6 destination
>    address set to the 6LR) and sent to 6LR, which modifies the rank in
>    the RPI.  When the packet arrives at 6LN the RPI header is removed
> 
>    and the packet processed.
> </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 6.2.3
> >
> > Why does the 6LBR not remove headers in the the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI)(2) case?
> >
> 
> 
> <author> Fixed: added in the table for the 6LBR: <c>IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI)(1)(2)
> </c>
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Section 6.2.4
> >
> > I'm not sure how to interpret the Table.  Does the IPv6 node remove the
> > RPI or ignore it?
> >
> 
> <author>Answer: The IPv6 node removes the header and does not process the
> RPI, the node ignores the RPI (this is normal IPv6 INPUT packet processing
> when a packet arrives at the destination, processing extension headers
> until the Upper Layer Protocol is reached).
> 
> </author>

This seems pretty clear now on a re-read, so I guess I was just tired or
something the first time around; sorry for the noise.

> 
> 
> >
> > Section 6.3.1
> >
> >    While the 6LR nodes will update the RPI, no node needs to add or
> >    remove the RPI, so no IPv6-in-IPv6 headers are necessary.  This may
> >    be done regardless of where the destination is, as the included RPI
> >    will be ignored by the receiver.
> >
> > I'm not sure what variation in the receiver location this is supposed to
> > allow, given that we have already specified it to be a Raf in the same
> > RPL Domain.
> >
> > <author>Deleted this part: “This may be done regardless of where the
> destination is, as the included RPI will be ignored by the receiver.”
> </author>
> 
> 
> > Section 6.3.4
> >
> >    not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--> 6LR_1--> 6LR_ia --> 6LR_id --> not-
> >    RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 dst)
> >
> > Is the root considered to be a 6LR_ia or a 6LR_id?
> >
> 
> <author> fixed, root added to the table </author>
> 
> >
> >    Note that this flow is identical to Section 6.3.3, except for where
> >    the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is inserted.
> >
> > I'm still not seeing a difference in where the IPv6-in-IPv6 header is
> > inserted.
> >
> 
> <author>fixed, we deleted that sentence </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 7
> >
> >    The following table (Figure 8) summarizes what headers are needed in
> >    the following scenarios, and indicates when the RPI, RH3 and IPv6-in-
> >    IPv6 header are to be inserted.  There are these possible situations:
> >    target destination address possible (indicated by "tgt"), to a 6LR,
> >    to a 6LN or to the root.  In cases where no IPv6-in-IPv6 header is
> >    needed, the column states as "No".
> >
> > "There are these possible situations" seems overly broad; if I
> > understand correctly, it is discussing only the last ("v6-in-v6 dst")
> > column's possible values.
> >
> > Is the "to a 6LR" case always going to be "the last 6LR before the 6LN
> > or 6LBR"?  It may be worth a few words to clarify that.
> >
> 
> <author>Corrected to:
> 
> Old: There are these possible situations: target destination address
> possible (indicated by "tgt"), to a 6LR, to a 6LN or to the root.
> 
> New: It depicts the target destination address possible (indicated by
> "tgt"), to a 6LR (parent of a 6LN), to a 6LN or to the root.
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >    The leaf can be a router 6LR or a host, both indicated as 6LN
> >    (Figure 3).  In the Figure the (1) indicates a 6tisch case [RFC8180],
> >    where the instanceID portion of the RPI header may still be needed to
> >    pick an appropriate priority or channel at each hop.
> >
> > This wording seems to imply that it is possible to cherry-pick just the
> > instanceID portion of the RPI header without (e.g.) the SenderRank,
> > which does not match my understanding of what is possible.  Perhaps
> > "where the RPI header may still be needed for the instanceID to be
> > available for priority/channel selection at each hop" is better wording?
> >
> 
> <author>Corrected as suggested in the text: The leaf can be a router 6LR or
> a host, both indicated as 6LN
> 
>    (Figure 3).  In the Figure the (1) indicates a 6tisch case [RFC8180
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8180>],
>    where the RPI header may still be needed for the instanceID to be
>    available for priority/channel selection at each hop.
> 
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Section 7.1.2
> >
> >    The destination is known to RPL-aware because, the root knows the
> >    whole topology in non-storing mode.
> >
> > nits: "to be", and no comma is needed.
> >
> 
> <author>fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 7.1.3
> >
> > I think I would prefer if the body text mentioned that an RPI is
> > optionally added (for the 6tisch case where the instanceID is needed).
> >
> 
> <author> we deleted the optionality of RPI </author>
> 
> >
> > I'm not sure that I understand why the RPI is marked as being modified
> > by the 6LR_i in this case but not in Section 7.1.2.
> >
> 
> <author>fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Table 15 should probably keep the parentheses around "(opt: RPI)" in the
> > column for the ~Raf.
> >
> 
> <author>fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 7.2.4
> >
> > It seems that Table 20 could coalesce the 6LR_1 column into the 6LR_i
> > column, and instead break out a 6LR_n column as is done in (e.g.)
> > Section 7.1.3.
> >
> <author>fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 7.3.1
> >
> > The conventions established previously in this document would seem to
> > have us include the "IPv6-in-IPV6()" indicator in the "Modified headers"
> > row.
> >
> <author>fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 7.3.2
> >
> > I think the Table 22 column header is better as 6LR_ia than 6LR_1.
> > It would be nice to be able to distinguish the generic 6LR_id and 6LR_m
> > cases, but I'm not sure if there's enough horizontal space for that.
> > Some textual discussion in the Table legend would be very helpful,
> > though.
> >
> <author>fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 7.3.3
> >
> >    not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6) --> 6LR_ia --> root (6LBR) --> 6LR_id -->
> >    6LN
> >
> > Is there a separate 6LR_1 step to be mentioned here?
> >
> > It's unclear if there's enough room for it in Table 23, but presumably
> > the generic 6LR_ia are modifying the IPv6-in-IPv6(RPI_1) headers?
> >
> 
> <author>fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 7.3.4
> >
> >    not-RPL-aware 6LN (IPv6 src)--> 6LR_ia --> root (6LBR) --> 6LR_id -->
> >    not-RPL-aware (IPv6 dst)
> >
> > Are there separate 6LR_1 and 6LR_m steps to mention here?
> >
> > As for 7.3.3, Table 24 seems to be missing some columns for intermediate
> > 6LRs that merely modify the RPI headers, though I recognize space
> > concerns.
> >
> 
> <author>fixed </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 8
> >
> >    The above case occurs whenever traffic originates from the outside
> >    the LLN (the "Internet" cases above), and non-storing mode is used.
> >    In non-storing mode, the RPL root knows the exact topology (as it
> >    must be create the RH3 header), and therefore knows what the 6LR
> >    prior to the leaf --- the 6LR_n.
> >
> > nit: "what the 6LR prior to the leaf is" or "which 6LR is immediately
> > prior to the leaf" or similar
> >
> 
> <author> Added in Text: For example, in Figure 5, node E is the 6LR prior
> to the leaf node G, or node C is the 6LR prior to the leaf node J.</author>

To be clear, this was just intended to be a grammar nit and not a
request for further clarification.

> >
> > Section 9
> >
> >    During bootstrapping the node get the DIO with the information of RPL
> >    Option Type, indicating the new RPI in the DODAG Configuration Option
> >    Flag.  The DODAG root is in charge to configure the current network
> >    to the new value, through DIO messages and when all the nodes are set
> >    with the new value.  [...]
> >
> > Perhaps a reminder of how "all the nodes are set with the new value" is
> > detected by the root would be helpful.
> >
> 
> <author> Added in Text: The DODAG Configuration option is contained in a
> RPL DIO message, which contains a unique DTSN counter.  The leaf nodes
> respond to this message with DAO messages containing the same DTSN. This is
> a normal part of RPL routing; the RPL root therefore knows when the updated
> DODAG Configuration Option has been seen by all nodes. </author>
> 
> >
> >    The migration path to the change from 0x63 to 0x23 in networks that
> >    accepts both values is changed when the DIO is sent with the flag
> >    indicating the new RPI value.  Namely, it remains at 0x63 until it is
> >
> > nit: How is it the *migration path* that is changed when the DIO with
> > flag is sent?  That seems to be making the migration happen, but the
> > path is the same as it ever was.
> >
> 
> <author> fixed, changed to migration procedure </author>
> 
> >
> > Section 11
> >
> >    While a typical LLN may be a very poor origin for attack traffic (as
> >    the networks tend to be very slow, and the nodes often have very low
> >    duty cycles) given enough nodes, they could still have a significant
> >    impact, particularly if the attack was on another LLN!  Additionally,
> >
> > I agree with the secdir reviewer that "target of the attack was another
> > LLN!" (or similar) would be clearer.
> >
> 
> <author> fixed </author>
> 
> >
> >    With the above precautions, an attack using IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnels will
> >    be by a node within the LLN on another node within the LLN.  Such an
> >
> > nit: I'd suggest s/will be/can only be/ to emphasize the restrictive
> > nature of the precautions.
> >
> 
> <author> fixed </author>
> 
> >
> >    The RH3 header usage described here can be abused in equivalent ways
> >    with an IPv6-in-IPv6 header to add the needed RH3 header.  As such,
> >
> > I don't think I understand what this is trying to say.  What are the
> > things that are equivalent?
> >
> 
> <author> added:” equivalent (to
> 
>   disguise the origin of traffic and attack other nodes) “
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >    The RPI header, if permitted to enter the LLN, could be used by an
> >    attacker to change the priority of a packet by selecting a different
> >    RPLInstanceID, perhaps one with a higher energy cost, for instance.
> >    It could also be that not all nodes are reachable in an LLN using the
> >    default instanceID, but a change of instanceID would permit an
> >    attacker to bypass such filtering.  Like the RH3, a RPI header is to
> >    be inserted by the RPL root on traffic entering the LLN by first
> >    inserting an IPv6-in-IPv6 header.  The attacker's RPI header
> >    therefore will not be seen by the network.  Upon reaching the
> >    destination node the RPI header has no further meaning and is just
> >    skipped; the presence of a second RPI header will have no meaning to
> >    the end node as the packet has already been identified as being at
> >    it's final destination.
> >
> > This text does not really convince me that it considers the non-storing
> > case where a packet is directed to a non-6LR-aware leaf, and the last
> > 6LR removes the IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation prior to sending the packet
> > on to the IPv6 node.
> >
> 
> <author> This is a good point, thank you for observing this. You are right
> that the 6LR that removes the outer IP/RH3/RPI will then possibly be
> mistaken by the inner RPI inserted by the attacker.  Do you think it is
> enough to declare that further RPI processing must be skipped by such a
> final router? we do not think that we have a use case for a legitimate RPI
> header here. </author>

I think that requiring the final router to skip further RPI processing
will suffice, yes.

> >
> >    Nodes within the LLN can use the IPv6-in-IPv6 mechanism to mount an
> >    attack on another part of the LLN, while disguising the origin of the
> >    attack.  The mechanism can even be abused to make it appear that the
> >    attack is coming from outside the LLN, and unless countered, this
> >    could be used to mount a Distributed Denial Of Service attack upon
> >    nodes elsewhere in the Internet.  See [DDOS-KREBS] for an example of
> >    such attacks already seen in the real world.
> >
> > It's not really clear to me that [DDOS-KREBS] is illustrative of
> > IPv6-in-IPv6 spoofing from a LLN.
> >
> 
> <author> DDOS-KREBS is an example of high-bandwidth attacks being
> constructed from millions of relatively low-bandwidth senders. It is not an
> IPv6-in-IPv6 spoofing attack, as the script kiddies are as yet,
> IPv6-ignorant and LLNs are uncommon.
> 
> </author>

Perhaps "an example of the potential consequences of DDoS attacks, even
in the non-spoofed case" would be friendlier to the reader, then?

> 
> 
> >
> >    If an attack comes from inside of LLN, it can be alleviated with SAVI
> >    (Source Address Validation Improvement) using [RFC8505] with
> >    [I-D.ietf-6lo-ap-nd].  The attacker will not be able to source with
> >
> > nit: is "source with" a common term?
> >
> 
> <author> replaced by “source traffic” </author>
> 
> >
> >    an address that is not registered, and the registration checks for
> >
> > nit: "registration process"?
> >
> 
> <author> fixed </author>
> 
> >
> >    topological correctness.  Notice that there is an L2 authentication
> >    in most of the cases.  If an attack comes from outside LLN IPv6-in-
> >    IPv6 can be used to hide inner routing headers, but RH3 is protected
> >    by its definition.
> >
> > Protected from what?  How?
> >
> 
> <author>
> 
> Old text: but RH3 is protected by its definition.
> 
> new text: but by construction, the RH3 can typically only address nodes
> within the LLN.  That is, a RH3 with a CmprI less than 8 , should be
> considered an attack (see RFC6554, section 3).

Thank you; that helps me a lot!

> </author>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >    Nodes outside of the LLN will need to pass IPv6-in-IPv6 traffic
> >    through the RPL root to perform this attack.  To counter, the RPL
> >    root SHOULD either restrict ingress of IPv6-in-IPv6 packets (the
> >    simpler solution), or it SHOULD do a deep packet inspection wherein
> >    it walks the IP header extension chain until it can inspect the
> >    upper-layer-payload as described in [RFC7045].  In particular, the
> >
> > RFC 7045 does not use the term "deep packet inspection", that term has
> > negative connotations for many people, and it's not entirely clear that
> > it's the right term to describe the process of fully parsing the IPv6
> > headers, either.
> >
> >  <author> corrected to: "... or it SHOULD walk the IP header extension chain
> 
>    until it can inspect the upper-layer-payload as described in
> 
>    [RFC7045 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7045>]..."
> 
> </author>
> 
> 
> Many thanks again for the detailed review

You're welcome, and thanks for all the updates to the document.

-Ben


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Subject: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29: (with COMMENT)
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Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for addressing my Discuss (and Comment) points!

I just have a few more minor notes on the -29:

the "(1)" footnote is no longer present.

I'm also not sure about the global change from "<foo>_i are the
intermediate routers" to "<foo>_i is the intermediate router", since the
general case can still have more than one intermediate in each
direction.  But perhaps we should leave this to the RFC Editor.

Section 11

nit: "especially if the target of the attack is targeting another LLN"
had redudant "target" added -- just "especially if attack is targeting
another LLN" would be fine.

I think the claim that "[i]n the end, the IPsec tunnels would be
providing only BCP38-like origin authentication!" could use some
additional justifcation.



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From: "Li Zhao (liz3)" <liz3@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>, "Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks" <roll@ietf.org>
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [Roll] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00.txt
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Yes, you were right Michael.

The problem is really the transition time during a network upgrade.

About compressing control messages, well doing that was not the idea, the i=
dea was for data packets.=20

Non-storing DAO to the root, though, can be considered as data  packets.
Maybe we can leverage this draft to indicate more rules on when / how to us=
e RFC 8138, in particular the root encaps IP in IP with RFC 8138 to the par=
ent if the child does not support the compression.
Are you willing to contribute text on this? This shouldn't weight and slow =
the draft too much, and certainly increases the value.

All the best,

Pascal

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Michael Richardson
> Sent: lundi 27 mai 2019 03:31
> To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Roll] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-roll-t=
urnon-
> rfc8138-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>     > It was reported to me as a deployment issue that RFC 8138 creates a
>     > backward compatibility issue when mixed with legacy RPL nodes that =
do
>     > not support the compression.
>=20
> Yes... I said exactly this would happen when we started this work.
> I was told that a forklife upgrade of networks to RFC8138 was going to be
> acceptable, but I guess this isn't the case :-)
>=20
>     > RFC 8138 fails to provide a toggle that turns the compression down =
in
>     > mixed environment. This blocks the deployment of newer versions tha=
t
>     > actually support the draft.
>=20
>     > I created a quick draft to fix that oversight. It's very short and =
I'd
>     > appreciate if you can comment rapidly so we can answer the field
>     > situation with a complete standard.
>=20
>     > What do you think?
>=20
> I think that the document needs to say that DIO messages can never be
> RFC8138 compressed, and I think that DAO's can't either, but I might have=
 to
> think about that some more.
>=20
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works  -
> =3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
>=20
>=20


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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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From: "Li Zhao (liz3)" <liz3@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 07:26:13 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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From: "Li Zhao (liz3)" <liz3@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 10:02:55 +0200
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To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 3:01 PM Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <
pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:

> Dear all
>
> *   As you know, we have a configuration option in standard RPL. It is
> used by useofrplinfo to trigger the use of option x23 and by
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00> to
> trigger the use of RFC 8138 compression.   This must not be confused with
> the capability draft in draft-rahul-roll-mop-ext which is how the nodes and
> the root share on what capabilities they have. A configuration is a flat
> order from the root, the capability is an exchange of information.*
>

they need to be dealt/considered in different ways.

*   In order to decide whether  it can safely set the config flags, it
> would be good that the root knows about the node capabilities such as route
> projection, RFC 8138 compression and option x23 for RPI. So I thought that
> the node could expose that capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in
> the draft already.*
>

route projection is not a capability and must not be one.


> *   For route projection, we could include a number of routes that the
> node can store, using a number like 10 hops max for non-storing PDAOs.*
>

don't agree because we need to separate projection from storage.


> *   Wat do you think?*
>

I don't think this route projection is important for RPL, however it can be
an option to be used for configurations.

AB

--0000000000001141080589d9fb61
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 3:01 PM Pasca=
l Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com">pthubert@cis=
co.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)=
;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-1468117622681923213WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As you know, we have a configuration option in stand=
ard RPL. It is used by useofrplinfo to trigger the use of option x23 and by
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00=
" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-r=
fc8138-00</a> to trigger the use of RFC 8138 compression.<u><u></u></u></p>=
<u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This must not be confused with the capability draft =
in draft-rahul-roll-mop-ext which is how the nodes and the root share on wh=
at capabilities they have. A configuration is a flat order from the root, t=
he capability is an exchange of information.</p></u></u></u></u></u></u></u=
></u></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>they need to be=C2=A0deal=
t/considered in=C2=A0different ways.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-=
left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">=
<div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1468117622681923213WordSection1"=
><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In order to decide whether=C2=A0 it can safely set t=
he config flags, it would be good that the root knows about the node capabi=
lities such as route projection, RFC 8138 compression and option x23 for RP=
I. So I thought that the node could expose
 that capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in the draft already.</p=
></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div>route projection is not a capability and must not be one=
.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border=
-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"=
gmail-m_-1468117622681923213WordSection1"><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u>=
<u><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For route projection, we could include a number of r=
outes that the node can store, using a number like 10 hops max for non-stor=
ing PDAOs.</p></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u><=
/u></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>don&#39;t agree because we =
need to separate projection from storage.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;b=
order-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:s=
olid"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1468117622681923213WordSec=
tion1"><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Wat do you think?</p></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u=
></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div>I don&#39;t think this route projection is important=C2=
=A0for RPL, however it=C2=A0can be an option to be used for configurations.=
</div><div><br></div><div>AB</div><u><div><br></div></u><div><u><u><u><br><=
/u></u></u></div></div></div>

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From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 10:31:40 +0200
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To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 7:19 AM Li Zhao (liz3) <liz3@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hello Pascal,
>
> *   My point is that dynamic switch the capability too frequently or too
> easily is not good. At least we need some rule to limit the switch
> capability.*
>

I think it is better to have no switch of capability at all times, that is
more stable for the network, we need to ensure stability and reliability.


> *   For example, if a root forms a network with 1000 nodes which supports
> 8183. What should root do when it receives a non-8138 compatible DAO?
> Reject this node or switch the whole network to non-8138. It=E2=80=99s ha=
rd to
> decide by root itself. *
>

the idea of changing capability makes things complicated without important
outcomes.

AB






























>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *     Best regards, Li   From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org
<roll-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)"
<pthubert@cisco.com <pthubert@cisco.com>> Reply-To: Routing Over Low power
and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org <roll@ietf.org>> Date: Monday, May 27,
2019 at 1:08 PM To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
<roll@ietf.org <roll@ietf.org>> Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs.
configuration   Hello Li   I do not understand your point that the
capability to switch to 8138 is not a good idea. I understand it is better
to avoid the situation but sometimes you have no choice. And if you upgrade
a first node in the middle of the network then there are no parent to form
a dodag.    Bottom line is you upgrade all your nodes and then you set the
flag in the capability.   What do I miss?     Regards,   Pascal Le 27 mai
2019 =C3=A0 05:24, Li Zhao (liz3) <liz3@cisco.com <liz3@cisco.com>> a =C3=
=A9crit : In
order to decide whether  it can safely set the config flags, it would be
good that the root knows about the node capabilities such as route
projection, RFC 8138 compression and option x23 for RPI. So I thought that
the node could expose that capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in
the draft already.   [RJ] So the root is expected to set the T-flag after
learning the nodes capabilities after the initial DIO-DAO round .. is this
right? i.e. once the root learns that all nodes are 8138 capable then it
sets the T-flag in the subsequent DIO (possibly after DTSN increment)? What
happens if a node springs up later and announces that it does not support
8138 after the T-flag was turned on by the root ?   [Li] How to identify
the initial DIO-DAO round is also a problem to deal with. Because the root
doesn=E2=80=99t know the scalability/max hop/form time of each PAN. One pro=
pose is
adding scalability/form time as capability of root, root can detect initial
DIO-DAO and then announces 8138 or option x23 to nodes.   [RJ]  What
happens if a non-8138 compatible node springs up later (i.e., after root
has announced T-flag set in DIO) and advertises that it is not 8138 capable
? Would root in turn start updating the network to reset T-flag in DIO? In
this case there could be 8138 compressed traffic in-transit while the
unsetting of T-flag is in progress.   [Li] The mixed 8138 and non-8138
network should not be common case when deployment. It=E2=80=99s usually exi=
sting
during upgrading firmware. Dynamic switch 8138/non-8138 by root is not a
good idea. If it=E2=80=99s indeed a mixed network, two instances(one for 81=
38 and
another for non-8183) is a workaround.   For route projection, we could
include a number of routes that the node can store, using a number like 10
hops max for non-storing PDAOs.   [RJ] Yes this could be done and will help
route projection.   [Li] In non-storing PDAO, the route entries number and
max hops are both needed as capabilities.   Best regards, Li     From:
Rahul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>>
Date: Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 9:18 AM To: Routing Over Low power and
Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org <roll@ietf.org>>, Li Zhao <liz3@cisco.com
<liz3@cisco.com>> Subject: RE: capability vs. configuration   As you know,
we have a configuration option in standard RPL. It is used by useofrplinfo
to trigger the use of option x23 and by
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00> to
trigger the use of RFC 8138 compression.   This must not be confused with
the capability draft in draft-rahul-roll-mop-ext which is how the nodes and
the root share on what capabilities they have. A configuration is a flat
order from the root, the capability is an exchange of information.   [RJ]
By flat order, I assume you mean that all the nodes either support it or
they don=E2=80=99t. There are no mixed nodes. In this case, yes, this is a
candidate for existing configuration option rather than capabilities. I
read the draft and I believe this to be true.   In order to decide whether
it can safely set the config flags, it would be good that the root knows
about the node capabilities such as route projection, RFC 8138 compression
and option x23 for RPI. So I thought that the node could expose that
capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in the draft already.   [RJ]
So the root is expected to set the T-flag after learning the nodes
capabilities after the initial DIO-DAO round .. is this right? i.e. once
the root learns that all nodes are 8138 capable then it sets the T-flag in
the subsequent DIO (possibly after DTSN increment)? What happens if a node
springs up later and announces that it does not support 8138 after the
T-flag was turned on by the root ?   For route projection, we could include
a number of routes that the node can store, using a number like 10 hops max
for non-storing PDAOs.   [RJ] Yes this could be done and will help route
projection.   _______________________________________________ Roll mailing
list Roll@ietf.org <Roll@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org <Roll@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll> *

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 7:19 AM Li Zh=
ao (liz3) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:liz3@cisco.com">liz3@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:=
1px;border-left-style:solid">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_8818247893640714796WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Pascal,<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My point is that dynamic switch the capability <b>to=
o frequently or too easily</b> is not good. At least we need some rule to l=
imit the switch capability.</p></u></u></u></u></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>I=C2=A0think it is better to have no switch of capability =
at all times, that is more stable for the network, we need to ensure stabil=
ity and reliability.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(=
204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div lang=3D"EN=
-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_8818247893640714796WordSection1"><u><u><u><u><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For example, if a root forms a network with 1000 nod=
es which supports 8183. What should root do when it receives a non-8138 com=
patible DAO? Reject this node or switch the whole network to non-8138. It=
=E2=80=99s hard to decide by root itself.
</p></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div>the idea of changing capability=C2=A0makes things complicated=C2=A0wi=
thout=C2=A0important outcomes.</div><div><br></div><div>AB</div><u><div><br=
></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br=
></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br=
></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br=
></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br=
></div><div><br></div><u><div><br></div><u><div><br></div><u><div><br></div=
><u><div><br></div><u><div><br></div><u><div><br></div><u><div><br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-l=
eft:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-lef=
t-style:solid"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_881824789364071479=
6WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Li<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;b=
order-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black;font-size:12pt">From: =
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black;font-size:12pt">Roll &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt=
; on behalf of &quot;Pascal Thubert (pthubert)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
pthubert@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, May 27, 2019 at 1:08 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration<u><u></u></u></span=
></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Li <u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I do not understand your point that the capability t=
o switch to 8138 is not a good idea.<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I understand it is better to avoid the situation but=
 sometimes you have no choice. And if you upgrade a first node in the middl=
e of the network then there are no parent to form a dodag.=C2=A0<u><u></u><=
/u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bottom line is you upgrade all your nodes and then y=
ou set the flag in the capability.<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What do I miss?<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_8818247893640714796AppleMailSignature">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards, <u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=C2=A0<u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
</u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></div><u><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
Le 27 mai 2019 =C3=A0 05:24, Li Zhao (liz3) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:liz3@cisc=
o.com" target=3D"_blank">liz3@cisco.com</a>&gt; a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<u><u></=
u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In order to decide whether=C2=A0 it can safely set t=
he config flags, it would be good that the root knows about the node capabi=
lities such as route projection, RFC 8138 compression and option x23 for RP=
I. So I thought that the node could expose
 that capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in the draft already.<u>=
<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u=
><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[RJ] So the roo=
t is expected to set the T-flag after learning the nodes capabilities after=
 the initial DIO-DAO round .. is this right? i.e. once the root learns that=
 all nodes are 8138 capable then it sets the
 T-flag in the subsequent DIO (possibly after DTSN increment)? What happens=
 if a node springs up later and announces that it does not support 8138 aft=
er the T-flag was turned on by the root ?</span><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(112,173,71)">[Li] How to id=
entify the=C2=A0initial DIO-DAO round is also a problem to deal with. Becau=
se the root doesn=E2=80=99t know the scalability/max hop/form time of each =
PAN.
</span><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(112,173,71)">One propose is=
 adding scalability/form time as capability of root, root can detect initia=
l DIO-DAO and then announces 8138 or option x23 to nodes.</span><u><u></u><=
/u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u=
><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[RJ] =C2=
=A0What happens if a non-8138 compatible node springs up later (i.e., after=
 root has announced T-flag set in DIO) and advertises that it is not 8138 c=
apable ? Would root in turn start updating the network
 to reset T-flag in DIO? In this case there could be 8138 compressed traffi=
c in-transit while the unsetting of T-flag is in progress.</span></i></b><u=
><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"color:rgb(112,173,71)">[Li] The mi=
xed 8138 and non-8138 network should not be common case when deployment. It=
=E2=80=99s usually existing during upgrading firmware. Dynamic switch 8138/=
non-8138 by root is not a good idea.</span></i><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"color:rgb(112,173,71)">If it=E2=80=
=99s indeed a mixed network, two instances(one for 8138 and another for non=
-8183) is a workaround.</span></i><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For route projection, we could include a number of r=
outes that the node can store, using a number like 10 hops max for non-stor=
ing PDAOs.<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u=
><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[RJ] Yes this c=
ould be done and will help route projection.
</span><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(112,173,71)">[Li] In non-st=
oring PDAO, the route entries number and max hops are both needed as capabi=
lities.</span><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Li<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;b=
order-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black;font-size:12pt">From: =
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black;font-size:12pt">Rahul Arvind Jadhav &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rahul.jadhav@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">rahul.jadha=
v@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 9:18 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Li Zhao &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:liz3@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">liz3@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: capability vs. configuration</span><u><u></u></u></p><u=
><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As you know, we have a configuration option in stand=
ard RPL. It is used by useofrplinfo to trigger the use of option x23 and by
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-rfc8138-00=
" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-turnon-r=
fc8138-00</a> to trigger the use of RFC 8138 compression.<u><u></u></u></p>=
<u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This must not be confused with the capability draft =
in draft-rahul-roll-mop-ext which is how the nodes and the root share on wh=
at capabilities they have. A configuration is a flat order from the root, t=
he capability is an exchange of information.<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u=
><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[RJ] By flat or=
der, I assume you mean that all the nodes either support it or they don=E2=
=80=99t. There are no mixed nodes. In this case, yes, this is a candidate f=
or existing configuration option rather than capabilities.
 I read the draft and I believe this to be true. </span><u><u></u></u></p><=
u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In order to decide whether=C2=A0 it can safely set t=
he config flags, it would be good that the root knows about the node capabi=
lities such as route projection, RFC 8138 compression and option x23 for RP=
I. So I thought that the node could expose
 that capability using mop-ext and we add the bits in the draft already.<u>=
<u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u=
><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[RJ] So the roo=
t is expected to set the T-flag after learning the nodes capabilities after=
 the initial DIO-DAO round .. is this right? i.e. once the root learns that=
 all nodes are 8138 capable then it sets the
 T-flag in the subsequent DIO (possibly after DTSN increment)? What happens=
 if a node springs up later and announces that it does not support 8138 aft=
er the T-flag was turned on by the root ?</span><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For route projection, we could include a number of r=
outes that the node can store, using a number like 10 hops max for non-stor=
ing PDAOs.<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u=
><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[RJ] Yes this c=
ould be done and will help route projection.
</span><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u=
></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></=
u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u><=
/u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u>=
</u></div><u><u><u>
</u></u></u></blockquote><u><u><u>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><u><u></u></u></p><u><u>
</u></u></div><u><u>
</u></u></blockquote><u><u>
</u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></div><u><u><u>
</u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u=
></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></div></di=
v></blockquote></u><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail=
-m_8818247893640714796WordSection1"><br></div></div></blockquote></u><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:=
1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-st=
yle:solid"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_8818247893640714796Wor=
dSection1"><br></div></div></blockquote></u><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb=
(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div lang=3D"E=
N-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_8818247893640714796WordSection1"><br></div></di=
v></blockquote></u><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail=
-m_8818247893640714796WordSection1"><br></div></div></blockquote></u><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:=
1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-st=
yle:solid"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_8818247893640714796Wor=
dSection1"><br></div></div></blockquote></u><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb=
(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div lang=3D"E=
N-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_8818247893640714796WordSection1"><br></div></di=
v></blockquote></u><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: projected route or not?
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Subject: Re: [Roll] projected route or not?
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Hello Rahul

Just for my understanding, the points mentioned below are on how to handle =
the projected routes failure during installation using PDAO and handle the =
partially projected route cleanup and notification to the root. As I unders=
tand, the partial cleanup currently is left to the root (possibly by using =
PDAO(lifetime=3D0)) once the root is notified of the failure.


?    Yes, during installation the draft says to use a negative DAO-Ack (e.g=
., status 11 if the problem is that the next hop is unreachable)  to the ro=
ot and then the root does the cleanup as you indicate.


Post-installation, the projected path may fail and also needs cleanup and n=
otification to root. Is this also part of this discussion?


  *   That is the core of the discussion, when the route was installed but =
it is now broken.

The way I see it, there are overall 4 scenarios and 4 requirements for proj=
ected route cleanup:

Scenarios:

  1.  Network is in Storing MOP, and the PDAO could be storing or non-stori=
ng
  2.  Network is in non-storing MOP, and PDAO could be storing or non-stori=
ng


?    Yes, Rahul, we are in sync


Requirements for projected route cleanup:

  1.  During Installation of routes

     *   Notification to the root
     *   Cleanup of partially installed routes. (Root cleans up once notifi=
ed of the failure?)

  1.  Post-installation failure of routes

     *   Notification to the root
     *   Cleanup of projected routes

Network base MOP
PDAO type
During installation
Post Installation
Notification
Partial-PDAO Cleanup
Notification
Cleanup
Storing
Storing-PDAO




Non-storing PDAO




Non-storing
Storing-PDAO




Non-storing PDAO





I am not proposing my views on the solution here, but just trying to layout=
 the full picture for error handling and trying to check if the understandi=
ng is ok.


  *   This is all correct but so far the spec does not make a difference, a=
lways a DAO ack (e.g. status 11) if failure during install and an ICMP "Err=
or in Projected Route" after that.

Do you see a need to be more specific?
I think the specific problems are more related to detection, e.g., determin=
ing that a packet is forwarded along a projected route when using non stori=
ng. This is why we're proposing to add a flag in the RPI.

Related is whether each P-route should be a different instance. Currently t=
he draft allows the root to add routes to a main instance, e.g., global ins=
tance 0.

All the best,

Pascal

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthu=
bert)
Sent: 23 May 2019 16:21
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org>>
Cc: Li Zhao (liz3) <liz3@cisco.com<mailto:liz3@cisco.com>>
Subject: [Roll] projected route or not?

Dear all

In case of an error in a P-route, the node that discovers an error notifies=
 the root with a new ICMP "Error in Projected Route".
In the case of a storing mode PDAO, this is determined by the type of the r=
oute with the highest precedence in the routing able... But for non-storing=
, it is hard to fathom.

Possible solutions:

  *   it could be  implicit for any source route that does not originate fr=
om the root. But then, this may create a confusion in a future specificatio=
n.
  *   update RFC 6550, RFC 6553 and RFC 8138 to add a flag in the RPI indic=
ating projected route
  *   update RFC 6550, RFC 6554 and RFC 8138 to add a flag in the SRH indic=
ating projected route
  *   encode that information implicitely in the instance ID by telling the=
 nodes that a range of instance IDs are reserved for P DAO
  *   do not use "Error in Projected Route" to the root for non-storing P D=
AO. RPL has an ICMPv6 "error in Source Routing Header" message that is sent=
 to the source of the packet. But that means that the packet goes to the so=
urce which then can notify the root. This is quite inefficient when the net=
work is non storing.
  *   ?

What do you think?

Pascal

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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Rahul<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Just for my understand=
ing, the points mentioned below are on how to handle the projected routes f=
ailure during installation using PDAO and handle the partially projected ro=
ute cleanup and notification to the
 root. As I understand, the partial cleanup currently is left to the root (=
possibly by using PDAO(lifetime=3D0)) once the root is notified of the fail=
ure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">&Oslash;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Yes, during installation the draft says to u=
se a negative DAO-Ack (e.g., status 11 if the problem is that the next hop =
is unreachable) &nbsp;to the root and then the root does the cleanup as you=
 indicate.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Post-installation, the=
 projected path may fail and also needs cleanup and notification to root. I=
s this also part of this discussion?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo7">That is the core of the discussion, when the route was installed but =
it is now broken.
<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The way I see it, ther=
e are overall 4 scenarios and 4 requirements for projected route cleanup:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Scenarios:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-l=
ist:l0 level1 lfo2">
Network is in Storing MOP, and the PDAO could be storing or non-storing<o:p=
></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-le=
ft:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
Network is in non-storing MOP, and PDAO could be storing or non-storing<o:p=
></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">&Oslash;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Yes, Rahul, we are in sync<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Requirements for proje=
cted route cleanup:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-l=
ist:l2 level1 lfo4">
During Installation of routes<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-l=
ist:l2 level2 lfo4">
Notification to the root<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" styl=
e=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo4">
Cleanup of partially installed routes. (Root cleans up once notified of the=
 failure?)<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-l=
ist:l2 level1 lfo4">
Post-installation failure of routes<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-l=
ist:l2 level2 lfo4">
Notification to the root<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" styl=
e=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo4">
Cleanup of projected routes<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" style=3D"border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"104" rowspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border=
:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Network base MOP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"141" rowspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;borde=
r:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">PDAO type<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"198" colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:148.85pt;bord=
er:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">During installation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"190" colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:142.35pt;bord=
er:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Post Installation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Notification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Partial-PDAO Cleanup<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Notification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Cleanup<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"104" rowspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border=
:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Storing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"141" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Storing-PDAO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"141" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Non-storing PDAO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"104" rowspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border=
:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Non-storing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"141" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Storing-PDAO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"141" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:105.6pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Non-storing PDAO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:70.85pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"104" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:78.3pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I am not proposing my =
views on the solution here, but just trying to layout the full picture for =
error handling and trying to check if the understanding is ok.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo7">This is all correct but so far the spec does not make a difference, a=
lways a DAO ack (e.g. status 11) if failure during install and an ICMP &quo=
t;Error in Projected Route&quot; after that.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do you see a need to be more specific? <o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think the specific problems are more related to de=
tection, e.g., determining that a packet is forwarded along a projected rou=
te when using non storing. This is why we&#8217;re proposing to add a flag =
in the RPI.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Related is whether each P-route should be a differen=
t instance. Currently the draft allows the root to add routes to a main ins=
tance, e.g., global instance 0.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All the best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Roll [<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pascal Thubert (pthubert)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 23 May 2019 16:21<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Li Zhao (liz3) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:liz3@cisco.com">liz3@cisco.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Roll] projected route or not?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In case of an error in a P-route, the node that disc=
overs an error notifies the root with a new ICMP &quot;Error in Projected R=
oute&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the case of a storing mode PDAO, this is determin=
ed by the type of the route with the highest precedence in the routing able=
... But for non-storing, it is hard to fathom.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Possible solutions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">it could be&nbsp;=
 implicit for any source route that does not originate from the root. But t=
hen, this may create a confusion in a future specification.
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">u=
pdate RFC 6550, RFC 6553 and RFC 8138 to add a flag in the RPI indicating p=
rojected route<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l3 =
level1 lfo6">update RFC 6550, RFC 6554 and RFC 8138 to add a flag in the SR=
H indicating projected route<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">encode that information implicitely in the ins=
tance ID by telling the nodes that a range of instance IDs are reserved for=
 P DAO<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 l=
fo6">do not use &quot;Error in Projected Route&quot; to the root for non-st=
oring P DAO. RPL has an ICMPv6 &#8220;error in Source Routing Header&#8221;=
 message that is sent to the source of the packet. But that means that the =
packet
 goes to the source which then can notify the root. This is quite inefficie=
nt when the network is non storing.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">?<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What do you think?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Subject: Re: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
    > I think that what is true there is true also for useofrplinfo. The fl=
ag is
    > used to delay the use of the new feature till the flag day. Once the =
flag day
    > is passed, that=E2=80=99s it for all.

That's not the correct usage of the term "flag day", and I think your usage
causes confusion!

A *Flag Day* is one where one turns off the network, reconfigures it, and
restarts cold.  It's not the day that the configuration (flag) value is set
:-)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_day_(computing)
    This systems terminology originates from a major change in the Multics
    operating system's definition of ASCII, which was scheduled for the Uni=
ted
    States holiday, Flag Day, on June 14, 1966.

note that it's called "Flag Day" because of when it occured (on a specific
holiday), not because flags were changed.

=3D=3D=3D=3D

The configuration option in the DAO allows the network to reconfigure witho=
ut
being turned off.

The purpose of each of these configuration options is to keep more capable
nodes from using their capabilities until all nodes are upgraded.
In effect, one can always choose not to compress,  and this is why 8138 is
lossy compression rather than subIP.

This means nodes have to be able to process without 8138, and that means mo=
re code :-(

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] capability vs. configuration
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29: (with COMMENT)
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Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
    > I think the claim that "[i]n the end, the IPsec tunnels would be
    > providing only BCP38-like origin authentication!" could use some
    > additional justifcation.

Sure, but I don't have a short version of it, and I believe that this
long version below is too busy to put into the draft.  It would
probably also require "eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and
arrows"..

When you build a tunnel from <A> to <B>, and it connects traffic from
A/net to B/net, and <A> does appropriate RFC4301 processing to pick
the right SPD, that means that traffic coming through the tunnel from <A>
must always be from nodes that A can verify (with BCP38 going into the
tunnel) are from A/net.   That is, IPsec provides a transitive guarantee
to the tunnel exit point that the tunnel entry point did BCP38 on traffic
going in.  But, thanks to IKEv2 Traffic selectors, the exit point knows the
tunnel SPD parameters, and can if it wishes validate the (source) addresses
fit into the tunnel if it wants. 4301 made this optional, I seem to recall.

Nodes behind A can, of course, spoof any address they like from A/net.
So B is assured that traffic coming out were always from A/net, but
has no idea if it's the correct A/net.

Now, within the LLN, A/net and B/net are the same network (prefix).
(Lets call it AB/net)

If you use IPsec, then you create O(n^2) tunnels between all possible
LLN routers that could exchange traffic.

Since every single one of the routers is willing to add an IPsec-IP wrapper
to traffic that does not have an appropriate header (to deal with unaware
leaves), then at B, all it can be sure about is that traffic coming out of
the tunnel is from some node in AB/net.

** If the root does BCP38 filtering on incoming traffic (which is really ch=
eap),
** you get exactly the same assurance.

Also, if you use IPsec, you have to build things:
      IP2 RH3 RPI ESP {IP1 ULP}

In the non-storing mode version, you could deal with O(n) tunnels since all
traffic goes through the root.  If there are no unaware leaves and no traff=
ic
to the Internet, then IP1.src always =3D=3D IP2.src (upward, s/src/dst/ for
downward), and you could do really good address validation.
Of course, in that case, where there are no unaware leaves, and no need to
ever add IPIP headers either.

In the Storing mode version there is no RH3, but traffic does not go to the
root, so this is where O(n^2) tunnels could be required.  You can route the
IKEv2 packets, because they always come from routers, not unaware leaves,
so RPI headers can be inserted when they IKEv2 packet is originated.
Again, since the 6LR is willing to route (via encapsulation) any packet
From=20AB/net into the tunnel, the recipient has no idea where traffic came
from.

And, in storing mode we have the same problem with the IKEv2 and ESP traffic
as we do with the RPI: we don't know where the last 6LR is, so we don't know
where to make the tunnel to.  In that case, we'd have to resort to doing
IPsec over Link-Local addresses, a tunnel for each parent/child hop.  So
at the last 6LR, we get an AB/net origin packet from our parent, and what
can we say about it's origin?  That it's from somewhere in the LLN.

I think that in
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves/, which
the WG has not adopted yet, that we might be able to put a requirement
on unaware leaves that they be able to decapsulate traffic like:
   IP2(dest=3Dme) RH3 RPI IP(dest=3Dme) ULP
and thus all the hop-by-hop IPIP encapsulation can go away, but we haven't
done that yet.

=2D-
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh network=
s [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect =
  [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails  =
  [






=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




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Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
    > Maybe we can leverage this draft to indicate more rules on when / how
    > to use RFC 8138, in particular the root encaps IP in IP with RFC 8138
    > to the parent if the child does not support the compression.

Ick!
That would imply different parts of the network have or don't have 8138?
I don't think this was your goal, and requires too much information at each
node about child capabilities.

    > Are you willing to contribute text on this? This shouldn't weight and
    > slow the draft too much, and certainly increases the value.

sure, but I think we shouldn't do this.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-




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To: Roll <roll@ietf.org>
Cc: peter van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>, INES ROBLES <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
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Subject: [Roll] WG call for adoption of draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves
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Hi Roll,

The WGLC on draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves has come to an end to-day.
Support has been expressed and the subject is relevant.

The document is accepted as WG document.

@pascal: can you submit a new ietf version?

Cheerio, thanks,

Ines andPeter

> Dear all,
> 
> This is a call for adoption of the draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves document. 
> 
> The call starts today (13-05) and finalize on 27-05. 
> 
> Please send your support/opposition with comments before deadline. 
> 
> Thank you very much, 
> 
> Ines and Peter
--=_099941fbb0774898ceb4bec47102e5ac
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3DUTF-8" /></head><body style=3D'font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Gen=
eva,sans-serif'>
Hi Roll,<br /><br />The WGLC on&nbsp;<span>draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leave=
s has come to an end to-day.<br /></span>Support has been expressed and the=
 subject is relevant.<br /><br />The document is accepted as WG document.<b=
r /><br />@pascal: can you submit a new ietf version?<br /><br />Cheerio, t=
hanks,<br /><br />Ines andPeter<br />
<p><br /></p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2=
px solid; margin: 0">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear all,<br />
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>This is a call for adoption of the draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves d=
ocument.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The call starts today (13-05) and finalize on 27-05.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Please send your support/opposition with comments before deadline.</di=
v>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thank you very much,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Ines and Peter</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body></html>

--=_099941fbb0774898ceb4bec47102e5ac--


From nobody Tue May 28 00:58:58 2019
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Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Routing for RPL Leaves
        Author          : Pascal Thubert
	Filename        : draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-00.txt
	Pages           : 20
	Date            : 2019-05-28

Abstract:
   This specification leverages 6LoWPAN ND to provide a unicast and
   multicast routing service in a RPL domain to 6LNs that do not
   participate to RPL.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29: (with COMMENT)
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Hello Michael and Benjamin

<snip>
=20
> I think that in
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves/, whic=
h the
> WG has not adopted yet,

Just did : )

>                                              that we might be able to put=
 a requirement on
> unaware leaves that they be able to decapsulate traffic like:
>    IP2(dest=3Dme) RH3 RPI IP(dest=3Dme) ULP
> and thus all the hop-by-hop IPIP encapsulation can go away, but we haven'=
t
> done that yet.

Yes, we can.

The current text in section 6 places the load on the encapsulator,=20
"
   o  When IP-in-IP is used and the outter headers terminate at the 6LR
      that generated the DAO, then the 6LR decapsulates the packet to
      the 6LN.  In that case the 6LN gets a packet that is free of RPL
      artifacts.  IP-in-IP to the 6LR MUST be used if the 6LN cannot
      handle the RPL artifacts or the way they are compressed [RFC8138].
      It SHOULD be used it there is a particular bandwidth or power
      constraint at the 6LN.=20
"

As Michael says, athis can work if it is the root that decides of the encap=
sulation because of the 'E' flag in the non-storing DAO, but hardly for any=
 arbitrary encapsulator in storing mode. Useofrplinfo alleviates the proble=
m since an arbitrary source may avoid encapsulation, but mostly so because =
the x23 type should be ignored by a normal stack. I'm happy to had in secti=
on 6 text that says that we expect any 6LN to be able to decapsulate IP in =
IP with a HbH option x23 and a routing header.=20

More problematic is the use of RFC 8138 compression by the source. Seems th=
at the parent would need to un-compress the outer header. A nicer way would=
 be to signal that the encapsulation can be removed by any router that is c=
onnected to the 6LN before passing the inner packet to the 6LN. For that I =
guess we'd need a new anycast address that would mean "whichever router ser=
ves the inner IP", like a locator.=20

All the best

Pascal


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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org>, "roll-chairs@ietf.org" <roll-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29: (with COMMENT)
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Removing the IESG, let me propose new text (in yellow) for the RUL draft se=
ction 6 (dependencies on 6LN).





   An arbitrary 6LN is expected to support IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation when =
it is

   the destination of the outer header. If the 6LN is a host, it is expecte=
d to

   drop the inner packet if it is not the destination of the inner header.



   An arbitrary 6LN is expected to process an unknown Option Type in a

  Hop-by-Hop Header as prescribed by section 4.2 of < RFC8200>.

   This means in particular that an RPI with an Option Type of 0x23

   < ietf-roll-useofrplinfo> is ignored when not  understood.



   An arbitrary 6LN is expected to process an unknown Routing Header Type a=
s

   prescribed by section 4.4 of <RFC8200>.

   This means in particular that Routing Header with a Routing Type of 3

   <RFC6553> is ignored when the Segments Left is zero, and

   dropped otherwise.



   When IP-in-IP is used and the outer headers terminate at the 6LR that

   generated the DAO, then the 6LR decapsulates the packet to the 6LN.

   In that case the 6LN gets a packet that is free of RPL artifacts.

   IP-in-IP to the 6LR MUST be used if the 6LN cannot handle or ignore the =
RPL

   artifacts or the way they are compressed <RFC8138>.

   It SHOULD be used it there is a particular bandwidth or power constraint=
 at

   the 6LN that justifies saving the encapsulation at the last hop.



Does that help?



Pascal



> -----Original Message-----

> From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com>

> Sent: mardi 28 mai 2019 12:01

> To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>; Benjamin Kaduk

> <kaduk@mit.edu>; Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks

> <roll@ietf.org>

> Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org; roll=
-

> chairs@ietf.org

> Subject: RE: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-

> useofrplinfo-29: (with COMMENT)

>

> Hello Michael and Benjamin

>

> <snip>

>

> > I think that in

> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves/,

> > which the WG has not adopted yet,

>

> Just did : )

>

> >                                              that we might be able to

> > put a requirement on unaware leaves that they be able to decapsulate tr=
affic

> like:

> >    IP2(dest=3Dme) RH3 RPI IP(dest=3Dme) ULP and thus all the hop-by-hop

> > IPIP encapsulation can go away, but we haven't done that yet.

>

> Yes, we can.

>

> The current text in section 6 places the load on the encapsulator, "

>    o  When IP-in-IP is used and the outter headers terminate at the 6LR

>       that generated the DAO, then the 6LR decapsulates the packet to

>       the 6LN.  In that case the 6LN gets a packet that is free of RPL

>       artifacts.  IP-in-IP to the 6LR MUST be used if the 6LN cannot

>       handle the RPL artifacts or the way they are compressed [RFC8138].

>       It SHOULD be used it there is a particular bandwidth or power

>       constraint at the 6LN.

> "

>

> As Michael says, athis can work if it is the root that decides of the

> encapsulation because of the 'E' flag in the non-storing DAO, but hardly =
for any

> arbitrary encapsulator in storing mode. Useofrplinfo alleviates the probl=
em

> since an arbitrary source may avoid encapsulation, but mostly so because =
the

> x23 type should be ignored by a normal stack. I'm happy to had in section=
 6

> text that says that we expect any 6LN to be able to decapsulate IP in IP =
with a

> HbH option x23 and a routing header.

>

> More problematic is the use of RFC 8138 compression by the source. Seems

> that the parent would need to un-compress the outer header. A nicer way

> would be to signal that the encapsulation can be removed by any router th=
at is

> connected to the 6LN before passing the inner packet to the 6LN. For that=
 I

> guess we'd need a new anycast address that would mean "whichever router

> serves the inner IP", like a locator.

>

> All the best

>

> Pascal

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Removing the IESG, let me propose new text (in ye=
llow) for the RUL draft section 6 (dependencies on 6LN).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; <span style=3D"background:yellow;mso=
-highlight:yellow">An arbitrary 6LN is expected to support IPv6-in-IPv6 enc=
apsulation when it is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp; the destination of the outer header. If the 6LN is a hos=
t, it is expected to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp; drop the inner packet if it is not the destination of th=
e inner header.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;An arbitrary 6LN is expected to process an unknown =
Option Type in a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp;Hop-by-Hop Header as prescribed by section 4.2 of &lt; RF=
C8200&gt;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp; This means in particular that an RPI with an Option Type=
 of 0x23<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt; ietf-roll-useofrplinfo&gt; is ignored when not&nbsp=
; understood.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp; An arbitrary 6LN is expected to process an unknown Routi=
ng Header Type as<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp; prescribed by section 4.4 of &lt;RFC8200&gt;.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp; This means in particular that Routing Header with a Rout=
ing Type of 3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;RFC6553&gt; is ignored when the Segments Left is zer=
o, and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:ye=
llow">&nbsp;&nbsp; dropped otherwise.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;When IP-in-IP is used and the o=
uter headers terminate at the 6LR that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; generated the DAO, then the 6LR deca=
psulates the packet to the 6LN.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; In that case the 6LN gets a packet t=
hat is free of RPL artifacts.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;IP-in-IP to the 6LR MUST be use=
d if the 6LN cannot handle
<span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">or ignore</span> the=
 RPL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; artifacts or the way they are compre=
ssed &lt;RFC8138&gt;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; It SHOULD be used it there is a part=
icular bandwidth or power constraint at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; the <span style=3D"background:yellow=
;mso-highlight:yellow">
6LN that justifies saving the encapsulation at the last hop</span>. <o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Does that help?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;pthubert=
@cisco.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: mardi 28 mai 2019 12:01<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Michael Richardson &lt;mcr&#43;ietf@sand=
elman.ca&gt;; Benjamin Kaduk<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;kaduk@mit.edu&gt;; Routing Over Low powe=
r and Lossy networks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;roll@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: The IESG &lt;iesg@ietf.org&gt;; draft-ie=
tf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org; roll-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; chairs@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: RE: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Obje=
ction on draft-ietf-roll-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; useofrplinfo-29: (with COMMENT)<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Hello Michael and Benjamin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; I think that in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves/">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-thubert-roll-unaware-leaves/</span></a>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; which the WG has not adopted yet,<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Just did : )<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; that we might be able to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; put a requirement on unaware leaves tha=
t they be able to decapsulate traffic<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; like:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP2(dest=3Dme) RH3 RP=
I IP(dest=3Dme) ULP and thus all the hop-by-hop<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; IPIP encapsulation can go away, but we =
haven't done that yet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Yes, we can.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; The current text in section 6 places the loa=
d on the encapsulator, &quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o&nbsp; When IP-in-IP is u=
sed and the outter headers terminate at the 6LR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that gen=
erated the DAO, then the 6LR decapsulates the packet to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the 6LN.=
&nbsp; In that case the 6LN gets a packet that is free of RPL<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;artifact=
s.&nbsp; IP-in-IP to the 6LR MUST be used if the 6LN cannot<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;handle t=
he RPL artifacts or the way they are compressed [RFC8138].<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It SHOUL=
D be used it there is a particular bandwidth or power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;constrai=
nt at the 6LN.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; As Michael says, athis can work if it is the=
 root that decides of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; encapsulation because of the 'E' flag in the=
 non-storing DAO, but hardly for any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; arbitrary encapsulator in storing mode. Useo=
frplinfo alleviates the problem<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; since an arbitrary source may avoid encapsul=
ation, but mostly so because the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; x23 type should be ignored by a normal stack=
. I'm happy to had in section 6<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; text that says that we expect any 6LN to be =
able to decapsulate IP in IP with a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; HbH option x23 and a routing header.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; More problematic is the use of RFC 8138 comp=
ression by the source. Seems<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; that the parent would need to un-compress th=
e outer header. A nicer way<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; would be to signal that the encapsulation ca=
n be removed by any router that is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; connected to the 6LN before passing the inne=
r packet to the 6LN. For that I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; guess we'd need a new anycast address that w=
ould mean &quot;whichever router<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; serves the inner IP&quot;, like a locator.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; All the best<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Pascal<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
    > Which means that if we have a real flag day then we do not need the
    > config flag in the config option.

exactly. One might have to visit every single node (truck roll) and tweak
each system.   So I'd write it:

    } The 8138-enable-option in the configuaration option prevents Flag Days
    } that might otherwise include truck rolls.

    > What they can do is reflash over the air and then restart the devices
    > asynchronously, keeping the network globally alive.

    > This is what triggered the need for the configuration flag. I think the
    > same applies to useofrplinfo, which also justifies the config bit
    > there.

    > But then "flag day" should not be used in either spec should it?

Yes, the config option avoids the need for a Flag Day.




--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-




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--_000_359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC01B337C18Amarathon_--


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Cc: Samita Chakrabarti <samitac.ietf@gmail.com>, roll-chairs <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org
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From: Charlie Perkins <charles.perkins@earthlink.net>
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Subject: [Roll] IoT-dir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo
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Hello folks,

Due to a lot of confusion on my end, this IoT-Dir review is very very 
late.  I hope it will be found to be useful.

I think the draft needs a bit of work before it can be published.  I 
have quite a few editorial comments and a couple of important technical 
concerns.

I started to review revision ...25.txt, but before I could finish that 
review, we were already up to revision ...29.txt so I started over with 
that revision.  Most of these are represented, albeit incompletely, in 
the attached file.

My main technical concern has to do with the attempt to classify RPI 
Option Types 0x23 and 0x63 as somehow being variants of the same Option 
Type.  I don't think this is really legitimate; they have to be 
considered to be two different Options.  I believe the idea is that it 
should be simple to implement both together, and type 0x23 is likely to 
survive traversal of the Internet.  An intermediate device that 
implements 0x63 but not 0x23 will not process any of the configuration 
options present in 0x23, but at least the packet won't be dropped.  I'm 
not sure how serious this problem is for intermediate 6LRs in the path 
of a 0x23 packet traversing the LLN, but those configuration options are 
meant for consumption by such intermediate 6LRs.

One thing that would help, is to include in the overview a very succinct 
list of design requirements and also a list of assumptions made during 
the design.  I had wanted to create this list but that would take 
another day.  Here is a start, and I hope that any misunderstanding that 
I have will be minor:

Requirements:

1. RPI has to be in every packet that traverses the LLN
2. Because of (1), packets from the Internet have to be encapsulated
3. Extension headers may not be added or removed except by the sender or 
the receiver
4. Packets that will traverse RPI-unaware nodes need encapsulation, but 
only sender or receiver can add the new RPI option (0x23)
5. Non-storing mode requires downstream encapsulation by root for RH

Assumptions:

- Each IPv6 node (including Internet routers) obeys RFC 8200, so that 
0x23 RPI can be safely inserted.
- All 6LRs obey RFC 8200

These requirements and assumptions determine the entries in the dozens 
of tables included within the document.  Without a clear grasp of them, 
it is easy to get lost in the sea of details about header insertion and 
encapsulation.

Most of my many comments are editorial.  I think that the draft could be 
easier to read with fewer digressions, and more consistent use of 
acronyms.  I have made a great many example revisions directly into the 
attached text file, which I hope will receive consideration by the 
authors.  Each editorial comment individually is typically less 
important than a technical error, but taken together I think they would 
greatly  promote readability and thus increase the likelihood that 
implementers will be able to understand the intention of the 
specification.   I have also inserted additional comments into the file, 
tagged by my initials "CEP:".   Here are some overall comments.

  *   not-RPL-aware --> RPL-unaware
  *   Raf could be confused as "RPL-aware forwarder".   Please change
    acronyms.  One possibility: ~Raf --> RuL,   Raf --> RaL  (for.,
    "RPL-aware-Leaf", "RPL-unaware-Leaf", respectively)
  *   Since the document already uses acronyms in an essential way,
    please also use them to improve clarity and shorten subsection
    titles, etc.
  *   Captions to figures and subsection titles should typically fit on
    a single line

I would like to verify the design assumptions and design requirements, 
and then use that knowledge to check the details of each of the 24 use 
cases.  One improvement that would be *very* helpful for this purpose, 
would be to assert *which* of the design requirements underlies each 
matrix entry for the 24 summary tables.

Regards,
Charlie P.





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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Hello folks,</p>
    <p>Due to a lot of confusion on my end, this IoT-Dir review is very
      very late.  I hope it will be found to be useful.<br>
    </p>
    <p>I think the draft needs a bit of work before it can be
      published.  I have quite a few editorial comments and a couple of
      important technical concerns.</p>
    <p>I started to review revision ...25.txt, but before I could finish
      that review, we were already up to revision ...29.txt so I started
      over with that revision.  Most of these are represented, albeit
      incompletely, in the attached file.</p>
    <p>My main technical concern has to do with the attempt to classify
      RPI Option Types 0x23 and 0x63 as somehow being variants of the
      same Option Type.  I don't think this is really legitimate; they
      have to be considered to be two different Options.  I believe the
      idea is that it should be simple to implement both together, and
      type 0x23 is likely to survive traversal of the Internet.  An
      intermediate device that implements 0x63 but not 0x23 will not
      process any of the configuration options present in 0x23, but at
      least the packet won't be dropped.  I'm not sure how serious this
      problem is for intermediate 6LRs in the path of a 0x23 packet
      traversing the LLN, but those configuration options are meant for
      consumption by such intermediate 6LRs.</p>
    <p>One thing that would help, is to include in the overview a very
      succinct list of design requirements and also a list of
      assumptions made during the design.  I had wanted to create this
      list but that would take another day.  Here is a start, and I hope
      that any misunderstanding that I have will be minor:</p>
    <p>Requirements:</p>
    <p>1. RPI has to be in every packet that traverses the LLN<br>
      2. Because of (1), packets from the Internet have to be
      encapsulated<br>
      3. Extension headers may not be added or removed except by the
      sender or the receiver<br>
      4. Packets that will traverse RPI-unaware nodes need
      encapsulation, but only sender or receiver can add the new RPI
      option (0x23)<br>
      5. Non-storing mode requires downstream encapsulation by root for
      RH</p>
    <p>Assumptions:</p>
    <p>- Each IPv6 node (including Internet routers) obeys RFC 8200, so
      that 0x23 RPI can be safely inserted.<br>
      - All 6LRs obey RFC 8200</p>
    <p>These requirements and assumptions determine the entries in the
      dozens of tables included within the document.  Without a clear
      grasp of them, it is easy to get lost in the sea of details about
      header insertion and encapsulation.</p>
    <p>Most of my many comments are editorial.  I think that the draft
      could be easier to read with fewer digressions, and more
      consistent use of acronyms.  I have made a great many example
      revisions directly into the attached text file, which I hope will
      receive consideration by the authors.  Each editorial comment
      individually is typically less important than a technical error,
      but taken together I think they would greatly  promote readability
      and thus increase the likelihood that implementers will be able to
      understand the intention of the specification.   I have also
      inserted additional comments into the file, tagged by my initials
      "CEP:".   Here are some overall comments.<br>
      <br>
    </p>
    <ul>
      <li> not-RPL-aware --&gt; RPL-unaware</li>
      <li> Raf could be confused as "RPL-aware forwarder".   Please
        change acronyms.  One possibility: ~Raf --&gt; RuL,   Raf --&gt;
        RaL  (for., "RPL-aware-Leaf", "RPL-unaware-Leaf", respectively)<br>
      </li>
      <li> Since the document already uses acronyms in an essential way,
        please also use them to improve clarity and shorten subsection
        titles, etc.</li>
      <li> Captions to figures and subsection titles should typically
        fit on a single line</li>
    </ul>
    <p>I would like to verify the design assumptions and design
      requirements, and then use that knowledge to check the details of
      each of the 24 use cases.  One improvement that would be *very*
      helpful for this purpose, would be to assert *which* of the design
      requirements underlies each matrix entry for the 24 summary
      tables.</p>
    <p>Regards,<br>
      Charlie P.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
  </body>
</html>

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Subject: Re: [Roll] IoT-dir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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Charlie Perkins <charles.perkins@earthlink.net> wrote:
    > My main technical concern has to do with the attempt to classify RPI =
Option
    > Types 0x23 and 0x63 as somehow being variants of the same Option Type=
.=C2=A0 I
    > don't think this is really legitimate; they have to be considered to =
be two
    > different Options.=C2=A0

Would IANA allocate options that differ only in the option action bits?
The registry has the following text:

   Each distinct 8-bit Option Type identifies a different option, i.e., the
   high-order 3 bits are considered part of the option identification.
   However, it is recommended that Option Types be assigned with distinct
   values in the "rest" subfield, until and unless that 5-bit space becomes
   full.

But, my question is, what would the material effect on the document be if we
considered it a different Option?


=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




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To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
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From: Charlie Perkins <charles.perkins@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] IoT-dir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo
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Hello Michael,

On 5/29/2019 3:53 PM, Michael Richardson wrote:
> The registry has the following text:
>
>     Each distinct 8-bit Option Type identifies a different option, i.e., the
>     high-order 3 bits are considered part of the option identification.
>     However, it is recommended that Option Types be assigned with distinct
>     values in the "rest" subfield, until and unless that 5-bit space becomes
>     full.
>
> But, my question is, what would the material effect on the document be if we
> considered it a different Option?

I don't think this is a fatal flaw.  I provided alternative text in a 
lot of places that seems more accurate for the specification of a new 
Option Type instead of a "related" type of an existing Option Type (I'm 
not really sure how to express this).

Maybe the main thing is to emphasize that a 0x63-cognizant node probably 
cannot interpret the "RPI 0x23 enable" Configuration Option bit of the 
DIO unless that node is also 0x23-cognizant.  By the way, is Bit number 
3 the bit next to the 'A' bit?  How does the 0x63-cognizant node 
communicate to the root that it didn't understand the "RPI 0x23 enable" bit?

I wish I had had time to go through all of the 24 use cases.  Do you 
agree with my lists of design assumptions and design requirements?  I 
probably left something out, sigh.

Regards,
Charlie P.


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Subject: [Roll] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29: (with COMMENT)
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Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-29: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

* Section 3.1

This text following the RFC8200 quote is not supported or implied by the quote

"This means that while it should be avoided, the impact on the Internet of
leaking a Hop-by-Hop header is acceptable."

Is this text necessary?

* Section 3.2

It is not clear if nodes are required to change option types when the config
flag transitions from 0 to 1 (e.g. after the reboot mentioned). Can you please
clarify?

* Section 6

In the cases where a hop-by-hop options header needs to be added (denoted by
"hop" in the table), I am assuming that the destination address is copied from
the inner packet into the encapsulating packet. If this is right, I think it
might be useful to explicitly mention it as the dst field of the table does not
provide the required information.



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Subject: Re: [Roll] IoT-dir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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Charlie Perkins <charles.perkins@earthlink.net> wrote:
    > Maybe the main thing is to emphasize that a 0x63-cognizant node proba=
bly
    > cannot interpret the "RPI 0x23 enable" Configuration Option bit of th=
e DIO
    > unless that node is also 0x23-cognizant.=C2=A0 By the way, is Bit num=
ber 3 the bit
    > next to the 'A' bit?=C2=A0 How does the 0x63-cognizant node communica=
te to the
    > root that it didn't understand the "RPI 0x23 enable" bit?

At this point, it would have to be a proprietary knowledge; you either
deployed the new firmware, or you didn't. Since firmware upgrades cost
bandwidth, and require restarts... therefore could take days to weeks to
deploy, you don't enable 0x23 until you are sure everything on your LLN
understands it.
Implementations could eventually withdraw support for 0x63, saving some cod=
e.

But, this is the goal of a capabilities report in the DAO.
(I thought someone had a draft for that)

    > I wish I had had time to go through all of the 24 use cases.=C2=A0 Do=
 you agree
    > with my lists of design assumptions and design requirements?=C2=A0 I =
probably left
    > something out, sigh.

I liked it that text, and we will try to use it.

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




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Subject: [Roll] roll - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 105
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Ines Robles, a Chair of the roll working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Ines Robles

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 50
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: anima manet 6tisch core ace
 Second Priority: rtgarea 6lo 6man lwig cbor t2trg
 Third Priority: rtgwg intarea lpwan


People who must be present:
  Michael Richardson
  Peter van der Stok
  Alvaro Retana
  Ines Robles

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  One of the chairs leaves on Friday, it would be nice please if we could have the meeting before Friday.

Meetecho Support
---------------------------------------------------------


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--_000_982B626E107E334DBE601D979F31785C5DEC8CA5BLREML503MBXchi_--


From nobody Fri May 31 02:49:47 2019
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From: Shwetha Bhandari via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 02:49:38 -0700
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/mw5jIXcfkNf5ANTKOV07DKbAjZI>
Subject: [Roll] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-11
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Reviewer: Shwetha Bhandari
Review result: Ready with Issues

I am an assigned IOT directorate reviewer for <draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao
>. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the Internet Area
Directors. Document editors and shepherd(s) should treat these comments just
like they would treat comments from any other IETF contributors and resolve
them along with any other Last Call comments that have been received. For more
details on the IOT Directorate, see
https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/iotdir/about/

Following sections/text need clarification as requested below:

> 2.2.  Invalidate routes of dependent nodes

I am a bit confused about what this section implies.  In the storing mode, RIB
that results in the 6LRs with the DAO received will result in the identifying
dependent nodes. See E.g https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6550#appendix-A.2.2 and
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6550#appendix-A.2.3. With this a NPDAO received
from a node that is the next hop for its dependent nodes should result in the
parent clean up routes to the dependent nodes as well as generate DAO to
reflect the updated RIB. If this is correct then why would invalidating routes
of dependent nodes be an issue with existing RPL + NPDAO mechanism? IMHO Route
invalidation and RIB maintenance based on RPL messaging is an implementation
decision that RPL doesnt have to specify.

> "Dependent nodes route invalidation on parent switching" 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-11#section-3.2
Based on response to the above this requirement may not really be called out
here?

>4.6.1.  Dependent Nodes invalidation
For the same reasons as above it is confusing why this consideration is needed.

>NPDAO and DCO in the same network
In a network that has mix of nodes with DCO implementation how will a node is
updated with DCO implementation decide on recommended option 2? The choice of
picking option 2 largely depends on capability of the upstream nodes  rather
than the node that wants to invalidate a prefix to itself. Is there a way to
discover capability of the upstream nodes in old and new path to see if DCO is
implemented before that choice can be made?


