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Sun, 6 Dec 2020 23:48:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Henning Rogge via Datatracker To: Cc: roll@ietf.org, draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160732731736.8235.16552518300256123704@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Henning Rogge Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2020 23:48:37 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 07:48:38 -0000 Reviewer: Henning Rogge Review result: Ready Hello, the Rtgdir asked me again to review the draft "useofrplinfo" (last review I did was for draft 25). Please note that I do NOT follow the ROLL WG. The draft has made a huge step forward in readability compared to last year. The extended terminology section helps a lot to understand the document. All the figures/tables have been cleaned up considerably and they all use the "Figure" term instead a mixture of figures and tables. Abbreviations are also used more consistently, which both helps with the table cleanup and the readability in general. I think draft 42 resolves the issues I had in my earlier review. Henning Rogge From nobody Mon Dec 7 17:07:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E64F3A0D3A for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 17:07:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=U2bLDArT; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=AHqSQW3Y Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6iaA7GjPsUd9 for ; 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Tue, 8 Dec 2020 01:07:22 +0000 From: "Li Zhao (liz3)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO Thread-Index: AdbCZRGxaZJsqD20SLuISSoVqF9MEgAgkqIOABJ37jAAGm3GHQALqPgAADNsT9ACGctgXw== Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 01:07:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: , , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:588c:1252:ed42:30ae:45fa:1f11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5a7e942a-76ea-48fa-2b15-08d89b159e6e x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1309: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: wOFNPObrxscV/n1spOeW37fgQI4BtDXJz3xjPhUhCxcxZElsUOWyi51RkISjQJxWotzI/MEakTLhIwyK8jt6017pNanzlu3NSNh/Rhu1GTtag4One4NsLDAHv3hI8LaVODADBtkIqok16wxB/TYs8MBbrOUQfphbCOVrKRmfNI/fxc3zBhV91xqW3taeoGo2Wwj6iybONf+WZA1qpy0w+N/M7m40/gk7P/D3VryB0A/SpkU3KdwEnpfTAnd8Yu93gcydOmqec9o5TkzsuMS6IZptHU7asofiubW+BVn5bL1vDfU2+hyray3bEoYh0sVdDYDyaaLfMCUxMkFN3lv2ZAdEtzdyJ5dKWeU43HvGfeaDJSzoFTkHS08q7RTeAE4/Wjn5HZdaLtvJbw1Y+S1Dh5GDPAybM5kZRjCmXowVL8GdQ5iXcKrXDY+0n+eNDeek x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Pascal, Yes. There is no segment in non-storing mode anymore... It seems that we ei= ther back to egress as root or accept this shortage? More comments line=85 Btw, I think mixed storing PDAO /non-storing PDAO/Stitched Segments is comp= lex and maybe little bit hard to use in runtime deployment. The original requirement I want to get from pdao-draft is finding an availa= ble p2p path from PCE with lowest cost. Which means easy to get route entry= from PCE and easy to maintain in node. Because either rpl local instance or aodv-p2p mechanism will leverage more = DIO/DAO/NS messages to maintain the route path. Best regards, Li From: Roll Date: Friday, November 27, 2020 at 19:52 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Dear all On this thread we decided to change the Root from being the Track egress to= being the ingress. That is cool for many reasons, but as i said that kills= the possibility to =93reload=94 the routing header in a multi-segment Trac= k where the segments are expressed as non-storing P-DAOs. Why? The operation I presented at IETF 109 involves changing the packet source a= t the segment stitching point and still recognize the packet as being part = of a Track. The change above makes the packet source is the Root of the Tra= ck, so the packet source now identifies the Track (together with the RPI). = Non-storing P-DAOs require to add a routing header. If header insertion was= allowed then that would not be an issue. But to add a RH cleanly at the segments stitching point, the connecting rou= ter needs to decapsulate the previous segment and encapsulate the next segm= ent with the RH. The connecting router becomes the source, thus the root. M= eaning that the segment is in fact a Track in its own right as opposed to a= segment of the complex Track. Another way to say that there is no segment in non-storing mode anymore. Th= ere are only Tracks that can be further assembled into more complex graphs.= That is, unless as I said we allow RH insertion despite the disputes we ob= serve on the same subject at 6MAN about Segment Routing. Or the TrackID is = taken from the Global Instance IDs name space. At the moment I=92m ignoring= those options which lead to either political issues or technical limitatio= ns. A complex Track can still be expressed as a collection of loose source rout= ing paths from a same Ingress =3D=3D Root. Think of it as a Segment Routing Policy for those familiar with SR. The dif= ference is that in SR the loose hops are ECMP path served by the IGP. Here we=92ll need either non-storing Tracks or storing mode segments, the d= ifference being that the storing mode segments do not required re-encapsula= tion. Note that in either case, there can be multiple NECMP possibilities. An example maybe? Say we have ------ F A------B------C------D------E < ------ G A is Track ingress, E is track Egress. C is stitching point. F and G are E= =92s neighbors, =93external=94 to the Track, and reachable from A over the = Track A->E. In a general manner we want: * PDAO 1 signals A->B->C * PDAO 2 signals C->B->E * PDAO 3 signals F and G via the A->E Track PDAO 3 being loose, it can only be non-storing. Note that since the Root is= always the ingress of a Track, and all SR-VIOs are now Track, the Root bei= ng signaled in the DAO base object can now be elided in the VIA list in SR-= VIO. This enables the construction by the main root of the RFC 8138 optimiz= ed SRH-6LoRH in the SR-VIO, to be placed as is in the packet by the Root. 1) Storing mode Segments -------------------------------- A->B->C and C->D->E are segments of a same Track. Note that the storing mode signaling imposes strict continuity in a segment= . This may also avoid weird loops. Case 1.1) Stitched Segments 1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E,= Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G 2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, = B, C, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G E recognizes that it is egress because it is a Target and a segment endpoin= t. Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destination =3D E | F | G, and RP= I =3D 129. >From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C. >From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E. Case 1.2) External routes 1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E,= Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E 2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, = B, C, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO = =3D E, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D F, G >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G as below; Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destination =3D E, and RPI =3D 12= 9. >From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C. >From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E. E decapsulates if encapsulated packet. Case 1.3) Segment Routing 1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E,= Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E 2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to B. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, = B, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D B, C 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO = =3D C, E, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D F, G >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G as below; Packets from A have source=3D A, destination =3D C, SRH =3D E, and RPI =3D = 129. >From PDAO 2: A forwards to B. B forwards to C based on a sibling connected route; C consumes the RH and m= akes the destination E. >From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E. E decapsulates if encapsulated packet. 2) Non Storing mode joining Tracks --------------------------------------------- A->B->C and C->D->E are Tracks expressed as non-storing P-DAOs. Case 2.1 Stitched Tracks 1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E= , Track ID 131 from C=92s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G 2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D= B, C, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G >From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D E | F | G. The outer hea= der has source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH =3D C and RPI =3D 129. Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination =3D C , SRH =3D, and R= PI =3D 129. C decapsulates. >From PDAO 1: C encapsulates packets with dest =3D E | F | G. The outer he= ader has source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI =3D 131. E decapsulates. Case 2.2 External routes 1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E= , Track ID 131 from C=92s namespace, Target =3D E 2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D= B, C, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO = =3D E, Track ID 141 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D F, G >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G. The outer header= has source =3D A, destination =3D E, and RPI =3D 141. This may recurse with: >From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D E. The outer header has = source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH =3D C and RPI =3D 129. Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination =3D C , SRH =3D, and R= PI =3D 129. C decapsulates. >From PDAO 1: C encapsulates packets with dest =3D E. The outer header has= source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI =3D 131. E decapsulates if encapsulated. Case 2.3 Segment Routing 1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E= , Track ID 131 from C=92s namespace, Target =3D E 2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D= B, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D C, E 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO = =3D C, E, Track ID 141 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D F, G >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G. The outer header= has source =3D A, destination =3D C, SRH =3D E, and RPI =3D 141. This may recurse with: >From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D C | E . The outer header= has source =3D A, destination =3D B, and RPI =3D 129. B decapsulates forwards to C based on a sibling connected route; C consumes= the RH and makes the destination E. >From PDAO 1: C encapsulates packets with dest =3D E. The outer header has= source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI =3D 131. E decapsulates, twice for dest =3D F | G. Does that work so far? Keep safe Pascal From: Roll On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert) Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020 11:47 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Hello Li In the packet, there=92s a bit in the RPI to say if the root is the source = or the destination. That=92s RFC 6550. I guess the discussion is related to the PDR and P-DAO, not data packet, th= ough it impacts the ICMP error reporting. In a packet along the P-Route, the idea was so far that the DODAG is a conv= ergecast to the destination so the destination is the root. If we say that = there=92s a single ingress and a single egress then the dodag is reversible= and either can be the root. If we want to support multicast tracks in the = future, then the ingress should be root. If the Track has a single ingress and a single egress, then the DODAG is re= versible into another DODAG and it does not matter which is root, so we can= make it bidir as Huimin asked. The storing mode P DAO would look a lot more like a DAO, as you pointed out= , if it goes towards the root. If we want to take that path, a node could l= earn both directions with a single storing mode P DAO. To be continued=85 For non-storing, making bidir is really hard. It seems easier to install a = Track in both directions and couple them. As a summary of the proposed changes: General - we make the root the ingress - ICMP errors sent to the Root, using the main DODAG if the track is not re= versible Storing mode P DAO: - we also make the root the ingress, P-DAO from egress to ingress are now m= ore similar to RPL DAO operation - the track could be made bi-directional, but that=92s more code; if so: - the packet forwarding leverages the RPI to indicate the direction, from= or to root - ICMP errors sent to the Root, could be source or destination. Non storing mode P DAO: - tracks remain directional, can be coupled, how is tbd - the RPI is mostly useless since the intermediate nodes do not know the in= stance (they see neither the DIO nor the P-DAO); they have no idea of their= Rank. Still, it is interesting to have is for error determination in an IC= PMP error at eth root. It is also interesting if the SRH forwarding nodes h= ave a state associated to the Track, e.g., reserved time slots or priority = queues. - the RPI is still a SHOULD when there=92s no compression and a MUST when t= here is. We need to clarify what to do, that=92s another of Huimin=92s ques= tions, taken separately. - ICMP errors forwarding packets are sent to the root which is now the ingr= ess, aka the source of the packet, and the encapsulator field if the packet= is encapsulated and compressed. This is common to any non-storing operatio= n, whether it is a main Instance, local Instance, or Track. The RPI therein= is useful to indicate the Track in Error. So for that matter the forwarder= does not need to make a difference Track vs. other form of RPL local insta= nce. - this impacts the discussion in SRH reloading we had at IETF 109, when a = N-S mode loose track is forwarded along a segment that is also NS mode. We= =92ll probably need to re-encapsulate now. In case of re-encapsulation, th= e re-encapsulator becomes source and root of the segment, which now has to = be considered as a serial Track; as tunnel headends do, it will have to dec= apsulate the tunneled packet to send the packet in error back to the ingres= s of the loose track Doe that work? Pascal From: Roll On Behalf Of Li Zhao (liz3) Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020 03:45 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Hello Pascal, If either source or destination can be root, it=92s better to identify when= or in which case source or destination can be root. Otherwise, it=92s hard= to interop between different implement even though they both follow RFC st= andard. E.g. for non-storing mode PDAO, if source is root, PCE only responses PDR-A= CK after receiving PDR from source. But if destination is root, PCE should also notify destination which tracki= d is used. Maybe we need bring new message for this notification? Take care, Li From: Roll > Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 21:54 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Hello Li; Well noted. This was the original intent. The change was made to egress bec= ause the idea was that the track could enable multiple sources to reach the= egress, like a tree rooted at the egress that flows traverse going down. B= ut the idea of a bidirectional track kinda blocks that idea and the other i= ssues like the one you point out seem to get us back to the original view. = I recently made the change from ingress to egress in the 6TiSCH architectur= e, waiting in RFC editor queue. I could reverse back, or maybe say =93eithe= r source or destination=94 so it can be egress or egress and we are covered= for bidirectional. What do you think? Or should a reversable Track be really a pair of tracks? Keep safe; Pascal From: Roll > On Behalf = Of Li Zhao (liz3) Sent: mercredi 25 novembre 2020 05:57 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Hello Pascal, Ingress as Root looks better because 1. It is consistent with the way RPL usually works. RPL Local instance, ao= dv-rpl, p2p-rpl all use ingress as root. 2. For non-storing-mode P-DAO, currently ingress sends upward traffic to e= gress(root) with SR header. But in RPL, only downward traffic carries SR he= ader. 3. Only ingress can send PDR makes sense. Behavior of TrackId is similar a= s Local Instance ID. Ingress as root can propose TrackId from its namespace= . And for storing-mode P-DAO, if we make ingress as root and ingress sends PD= R, can PCE send P-DAO to egress then egress forwards it towards predecessor= to ingress? Maybe it helps to make P-DAO looks like a DAO message. Best regards, Li From: Roll > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 21:39 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions = on P-DAO Dear all Whether to make the P-DAO bidirectional is an intriguing question. It could= be done, just like we can send packets DOWN a classical DODAG. But if we take that path, we reopen the question of who is root and which d= irection the P-DAO flies. Could we make either the ingress OR the egress root? How does it matter? At the moment the Root is the egress and the storing-mode P-DAO flies from = the Track egress to the track ingress, and the track egress is the root. Th= is is not the way RPL usually works as the DAO flies towards the root. The = reason was that we wanted a single egress for the Track, as we build unicas= t Track. If we wanted to build multicast Tracks the root should logically b= e the ingress. And for bidirectional Tracks it could be either. Up to -24 the 6TiSCH Architecture expected the ingress to be root. I change= d in the latest to map we do here, that it is the egress; maybe a flag in t= he DAO would indicate which direction the flow, from root, to root, or both= ? Also if we build bidir Tracks in storing mode, the nodes that forward the D= AO will have to build routes in both directions based on the P-DAO, both to= wards egress and ingress; but only the path from which the P-DAO comes has = been validated by the P-DAO itself. Should we send a P-DAO to each end, eac= h setting up one way? Please let me know your thoughts Pascal From: Roll > On Behalf = Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert) Sent: mardi 24 novembre 2020 14:22 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: [Roll] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO Dear all The slides for the P-DAO discussion at IETF 109 are available here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-109-roll-dao-projection/ There are a number of open questions that we starting discussing, and would= need to progress on the list. Some of them were expressed on the list, e.g., from Huimin She. I=92d like = to progress on them all with individual threads. The questions are: 1. Lifetime Unit: could we use a different unit for P-DAO? 2. How to differentiate a P-DAO from a normal DAO in a local instance; n= ew flag? 3. Make P-DAO bidirectional? 4. Who sends the PDR? Does it have to be the ingress? If it was egress i= t could propose a TrackId from its namespace. Else could the ingress be the= root? 5. Maintaining the sibling state. Should we have text on using RFC 8505 = there? 6. Whether ingress and egress are listed in NPO? Today they are both, in= gress to indicate the packet source in case of encapsulation and for SRH-6L= oRH compression reference and egress to build the full SRH-6LoRH. Note that= the ingress must consume the first entry and use it as source. 7. Track in Track vs. SR Header reload models, see slides Let me open threads to follow up. Keep safe Pascal --_000_MWHPR11MB17428B7B6FE5F4975DDB7C288CCD0MWHPR11MB1742namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Pascal,=

 

Yes. There is no segment= in non-storing mode anymore... It seems that we eithe= r back to egress as root or accept this shortage?

More comments line=85

 

Btw, I think mixed storing PDAO= /non-storing PDAO/Stitched Segments is complex and maybe little bit hard to use in runtime= deployment.

The original requirement I want= to get from pdao-draft is finding an available p2p path from PCE with lowe= st cost. Which means easy to get route entry from PCE and easy to maintain = in node.

Because either rpl local instan= ce or aodv-p2p mechanism will leverage more DIO/DAO/NS messages to maintain= the route path.

 

 

Best regards,=

Li

 

 

From: Roll <roll-bounc= es@ietf.org>
Date: Friday, November 27, 2020 at 19:52
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org><= br> Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open= Questions on P-DAO

Dear all

 

<hard thinking here, sorry, been scratching my he= ad quite a bit, so please bear with me>

 

On this thread we decided to change the Root from be= ing the Track egress to being the ingress. That is cool for many reasons, b= ut as i said that kills the possibility to =93reload=94 the routing header = in a multi-segment Track where the segments are expressed as non-storing P-DAOs. Why?

 

The operation I presented at IETF 109 involves chang= ing the packet source at the segment stitching point and still recognize th= e packet as being part of a Track. The change above makes the packet source= is the Root of the Track, so the packet source now identifies the Track (together with the RPI). Non-storin= g P-DAOs require to add a routing header. If header insertion was allowed t= hen that would not be an issue.

 

But to add a RH cleanly at the segments stitching po= int, the connecting router needs to decapsulate the previous segment and en= capsulate the next segment with the RH. The connecting router becomes the s= ource, thus the root. Meaning that the segment is in fact a Track in its own right as opposed to a segment of= the complex Track.

 

Another way to say that there is no segment in non-s= toring mode anymore. There are only Tracks that can be further assembled in= to more complex graphs. That is, unless as I said we allow RH insertion des= pite the disputes we observe on the same subject at 6MAN about Segment Routing. Or the TrackID is taken from t= he Global Instance IDs name space. At the moment I=92m ignoring those optio= ns which lead to either political issues or technical limitations.

 

 

A complex Track can still be expressed as a collecti= on of loose source routing paths from a same Ingress =3D=3D Root.

 

Think of it as a Segment Routing Policy for those fa= miliar with SR. The difference is that in SR the loose hops are ECMP path s= erved by the IGP.

 

Here we=92ll need either non-storing Tracks or stori= ng mode segments, the difference being that the storing mode segments do no= t required re-encapsulation. Note that in either case, there can be multipl= e NECMP possibilities.

 

 

An example maybe?

 

 

Say we have

=  

=             &nb= sp;             = ;      ------ F

= A------B------C------D------E <

=             &nb= sp;            =        ------ G

 

 

A is Track ingress, E is track Egress. C is stitchin= g point. F and G are E=92s neighbors, =93external=94 to the Track, and reac= hable from A over the Track A->E.

In a general manner we want:

  • PDAO 1 signals A->B->C
  • PDAO 2 signals C-&g= t;B->E
  • PDAO 3 signals F and G via the A->E Track

 

PDAO 3 being loose, it can only be non-storing. Note= that since the Root is always the ingress of a Track, and all SR-VIOs are = now Track, the Root being signaled in the DAO base object can now be elided= in the VIA list in SR-VIO. This enables the construction by the main root of the RFC 8138 optimized SRH-6LoRH in t= he SR-VIO, to be placed as is in the packet by the Root.

 

 

1) Storing mode Segments

--------------------------------

 

A->B->C and C->D->E are segments of a sa= me Track.

Note that the storing mode signaling imposes strict = continuity in a segment. This may also avoid weird loops.

 

Case 1.1) Stitched Segments

 

  1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E,= Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G
  2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, B, C,= Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G

 

E recognizes that it is egress because it is a Targe= t and a segment endpoint.

 

Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destinatio= n =3D E | F | G, and RPI =3D 129.

From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C.

From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E.

 

 

Case 1.2) External routes

 

  1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E,= Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E
  2. sto= ring mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, B, C, Tra= ck ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E
  3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Roo= t =3D A, SRVIO =3D E, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D F, G

 

From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D &n= bsp; F | G as below;

Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destinatio= n =3D E, and RPI =3D 129.

From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C.

From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E.

E decapsulates if encapsulated packet.

 

 

 

Case 1.3) Segment Routing

 

  1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E,= Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E
  2. sto= ring mode PDAO 2 is then sent to B. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, B, Track = ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D B, C
  3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Roo= t =3D A, SRVIO =3D C, E, Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D F, G=

 

 

From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D &n= bsp; F | G as below;

Packets from A have source=3D A, destination =3D C, = SRH =3D E, and RPI =3D 129.

From PDAO 2: A forwards to B.

B forwards to C based on a sibling connected route; = C consumes the RH and makes the destination E.

From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E.

E decapsulates if encapsulated packet.

 

 

 

2) Non Storing mode joining Tracks

---------------------------------------------

 

A->B->C and C->D->E are Tracks expressed= as non-storing P-DAOs.

 

Case 2.1 Stitched Tracks

 

  1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E= , Track ID 131 from C=92s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G
  2.  

    From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D &n= bsp;E | F | G. The outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH = =3D C and RPI =3D 129.

    Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination= =3D C , SRH =3D, and RPI =3D 129. C decapsulates.

    From PDAO 1: C  encapsulates packets with dest = =3D  E | F | G. The outer header has source=3D C, destination =3D D, S= RH =3D E and RPI =3D 131.

    E decapsulates.

     

     

    Case 2.2 External routes

     

    1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E= , Track ID 131 from C=92s namespace, Target =3D E
    2. non= storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D B, C, Tr= ack ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D E
    3. non stor= ing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO =3D E, Track ID= 141 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D F, G

     

     

    From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D &n= bsp; F | G. The outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D E, and = RPI =3D 141.

    This may recurse with:

    From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D &n= bsp;E. The outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH =3D C and = RPI =3D 129.

    Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination= =3D C , SRH =3D, and RPI =3D 129. C decapsulates.

    From PDAO 1: C  encapsulates packets with dest = =3D  E. The outer header has source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E= and RPI =3D 131.

    E decapsulates if encapsulated.

     

     

    Case 2.3 Segment Routing

     

    1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E= , Track ID 131 from C=92s namespace, Target =3D E
    2. non= storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D B,  = ;Track ID 129 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D C, E
    3. no= n storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO =3D C, E,= Track ID 141 from A=92s namespace, Target =3D F, G

     

     

    From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D &n= bsp; F | G. The outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D C, SRH = =3D E, and RPI =3D 141.

    This may recurse with:

    From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D &n= bsp;C | E . The outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D B, and RPI = =3D 129.

    B decapsulates forwards to C based on a sibling conn= ected route; C consumes the RH and makes the destination E.

    From PDAO 1: C  encapsulates packets with dest = =3D  E. The outer header has source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E= and RPI =3D 131.

    E decapsulates, twice for dest =3D   F | G= .

     

     

    Does that work so far?

     

    Keep safe

     

    Pascal

     

     

    From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> O= n Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
    Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020 11:47
    To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org><= br> Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open= Questions on P-DAO

     

    Hello Li

     

    In the packet, there=92s a bit in the RPI to say if = the root is the source or the destination. That=92s RFC 6550.

    I guess the discussion is related to the PDR and P-D= AO, not data packet, though it impacts the ICMP error reporting.=

     

    In a packet along the P-Route, the idea was so far t= hat the DODAG is a convergecast to the destination so the destination is th= e root. If we say that there=92s a single ingress and a single egress then = the dodag is reversible and either can be the root. If we want to support multicast tracks in the future, then th= e ingress should be root.

     

    If the Track has a single ingress and a single egres= s, then the DODAG is reversible into another DODAG and it does not matter w= hich is root, so we can make it bidir as Huimin asked.

    The storing mode P DAO would look a lot more like a = DAO, as you pointed out, if it goes towards the root. If we want to take th= at path, a node could learn both directions with a single storing mode P DA= O. To be continued=85

     

    For non-storing, making bidir is really hard. It see= ms easier to install a Track in both directions and couple them.=

     

    As a summary of the proposed changes:

     

    General

    - we make the root the ingress

    - ICMP errors sent to the Root, using the main DODAG= if the track is not reversible

     

     

    Storing mode P DAO:

    - we also make the root the ingress, P-DAO from egre= ss to ingress are now more similar to RPL DAO operation

    - the track could be made bi-directional, but that= =92s more code; if so:

      - the packet forwarding leverages the RPI to = indicate the direction, from or to root

      - ICMP errors sent to the Root, could be sour= ce or destination.

     

    Non storing mode P DAO:

    - tracks remain directional, can be coupled, how is = tbd

    - the RPI is mostly useless since the intermediate n= odes do not know the instance (they see neither the DIO nor the P-DAO); the= y have no idea of their Rank. Still, it is interesting to have is for error= determination in an ICPMP error at eth root. It is also interesting if the SRH forwarding nodes have a state = associated to the Track, e.g., reserved time slots or priority queues.=

    - the RPI is still a SHOULD when there=92s no compre= ssion and a MUST when there is. We need to clarify what to do, that=92s ano= ther of Huimin=92s questions, taken separately.

    - ICMP errors forwarding packets are sent to the roo= t which is now the ingress, aka the source of the packet, and the encapsula= tor field if the packet is encapsulated and compressed. This is common to a= ny non-storing operation, whether it is a main Instance, local Instance, or Track. The RPI therein is useful= to indicate the Track in Error. So for that matter the forwarder does not = need to make a difference Track vs. other form of RPL local instance.<= /o:p>

    - this impacts the discussion in SRH reloading we ha= d at IETF 109, when a  N-S mode loose track is forwarded along a segme= nt that is also NS mode. We=92ll probably need to re-encapsulate now. = In case of re-encapsulation, the re-encapsulator becomes source and root of the segment, which now has to be considered as = a serial Track; as tunnel headends do, it will have to decapsulate the tunn= eled packet to send the packet in error back to the ingress of the loose tr= ack

     

     

    Doe that work?

     

    Pascal

     

    From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> O= n Behalf Of Li Zhao (liz3)
    Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020 03:45
    To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org><= br> Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open= Questions on P-DAO

     

    Hello Pascal,

     

    If either source or destination can be root, it=92s = better to identify when or in which case source or destination can be root.= Otherwise, it=92s hard to interop between different implement even though = they both follow RFC standard.

     

    E.g. for non-storing mode PDAO, if source is root, P= CE only responses PDR-ACK after receiving PDR from source.

    But if destination is root, PCE should also notify d= estination which trackid is used. Maybe we need bring new message for this = notification?

     

     

    Take care,

    Li

     

    From: Roll <roll= -bounces@ietf.org&g= t;
    Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 21:54
    To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <    roll@ietf.org= >
    Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open= Questions on P-DAO

    Hello Li;

     

    Well noted. This was the original intent. The change= was made to egress because the idea was that the track could enable multip= le sources to reach the egress, like a tree rooted at the egress that flows= traverse going down. But the idea of a bidirectional track kinda blocks that idea and the other issues like = the one you point out seem to get us back to the original view. I recently = made the change from ingress to egress in the 6TiSCH architecture, waiting = in RFC editor queue. I could reverse back, or maybe say =93either source or destination=94 so it can be egress = or egress and we are covered for bidirectional.

    What do you think?

    Or should a reversable Track be really a pair of tra= cks?

     

    Keep safe;

     

    Pascal

     

    From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Li Zhao (liz3)
    Sent: mercredi 25 novembre 2020 05:57
    To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open= Questions on P-DAO

     

    Hello Pascal,

     

    Ingress as Root looks better because

    1.  It is consistent with the way RPL usually w= orks. RPL Local instance, aodv-rpl, p2p-rpl all use ingress as root.

    2.  For non-storing-mode P-DAO, currently ingre= ss sends upward traffic to egress(root) with SR header. But in RPL, only do= wnward traffic carries SR header.

    3.  Only ingress can send PDR makes sense. Behavior of TrackId is similar as Local= Instance ID. Ingress as root can propose TrackId from its namespace.

     

     

    And for storing-mode P-DAO, if we make ingress as ro= ot and ingress sends PDR, can PCE send P-DAO to egress then egress forwards= it towards predecessor to ingress?

    Maybe it helps to make P-DAO looks like a DAO messag= e.

     

     

    Best regards,

    Li

     

     

    From: Roll <roll= -bounces@ietf.org&g= t;
    Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 21:39
    To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <    roll@ietf.org= >
    Subject: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Que= stions on P-DAO

    Dear all

     

    Whether to make the P-DAO bidirectional is an intrig= uing question. It could be done, just like we can send packets DOWN a class= ical DODAG.

    But if we take that path, we reopen the question of = who is root and which direction the P-DAO flies.

     

    Could we make either the ingress OR the egress root?= How does it matter?

     

    At the moment the Root is the egress and the storing= -mode P-DAO flies from the Track egress to the track ingress, and the track= egress is the root. This is not the way RPL usually works as the DAO flies= towards the root. The reason was that we wanted a single egress for the Track, as we build unicast Track. I= f we wanted to build multicast Tracks the root should logically be the ingr= ess. And for bidirectional Tracks it could be either.

     

    Up to -24 the 6TiSCH Architecture expected the ingre= ss to be root. I changed in the latest to map we do here, that it is the eg= ress; maybe a flag in the DAO would indicate which direction the flow, from= root, to root, or both?

     

    Also if we build bidir Tracks in storing mode, the n= odes that forward the DAO will have to build routes in both directions base= d on the P-DAO, both towards egress and ingress; but only the path from whi= ch the P-DAO comes has been validated by the P-DAO itself. Should we send a P-DAO to each end, each setting up o= ne way?

     

    Please let me know your thoughts

     

    Pascal

     

     

    From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
    Sent: mardi 24 novembre 2020 14:22
    To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
    Subject: [Roll] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO

     

    Dear all

     

    The slides for the P-DAO discussion at IETF 109 are = available here:

     

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-109-roll-d= ao-projection/

     

    There are a number of open questions that we startin= g discussing, and would need to progress on the list.

    Some of them were expressed on the list, e.g., from = Huimin She. I=92d like to progress on them all with individual threads.

    The questions are:

     

    1. Lifetime Unit: could we use a different unit for P-DAO?
    2. How to differentiate a P-DAO from a normal DAO in a local instance;= new flag?
    3. Make P-DAO bidirectional?
      4. Who sends the PDR? Does it have to be the ingress? If it was egress it = could propose a TrackId from its namespace. Else could the ingress be the r= oot?
    4. Maintaining the sibling state. Should we have tex= t on using RFC 8505 there?
    5. Whether ingress and egress = are listed in NPO? Today they are both, ingress to indicate the packet sour= ce in case of encapsulation and for SRH-6LoRH compression reference and egr= ess to build the full SRH-6LoRH. Note that the ingress must consume the first = entry and use it as source.
    6. Track in Track vs. SR Head= er reload models, see slides

     

    Let me open threads to follow up.

     

    Keep safe

     

    Pascal

     

     

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Tue, 8 Dec 2020 07:30:00 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO Thread-Index: AdbCZRGxaZJsqD20SLuISSoVqF9MEgAgkqIOABJ37jAAGm3GHQALqPgAADNsT9ACGctgXwAK6X2g Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 07:29:37 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 07:19:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: , , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2a01:cb1d:4ec:2200:bc7c:a193:e606:1d2c] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1f45738f-92ec-4890-2175-08d89b4b120b x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CO1PR11MB4931: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Li: > Yes. There is no segment in non-storing mode anymore... It seems that we = either back to egress as root or accept this shortage? I have been bouncing between the 2. You can see that in the diffs in the 6T= iSCH architecture. I did again when you suggested the change back to the in= gress is root. We need to settle. The change was a lot of work (https://too= ls.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-15.txt). The reas= on why I accepted the change is that the RH reload that II explained at IET= F 109 is far from accepted at 6MAN, and the history we have there with RH i= nsertion does not leave much hope anyway. Which leaves us with: a) Tracks are non-storing paths expressed in strict or loose source route.= Simple implementations only do strict b) Segments are storing mode paths, that stitch loose SRH paths. This appli= es to the main DODAG and to Tracks. That's the normal segment routing case = 1.3 below. What is also possible but more complex: c) A path can be established by stitching segments without declaring a Trac= k (that's case 1.1 below). The Track is implicit. d) Instead of declaring a storing mode segment between 2 loose SRH hops, th= e path can be another Track in which case we need to encapsulate between th= e loose hops. That's the non-storing segment routing case 2.3 below. And then there can be tunneling of traffic beyond the egress, e.g., if the = egress is a station with multiple devices in it. > Btw, I think mixed storing PDAO /non-storing PDAO/Stitched Segments is co= mplex and maybe little bit hard to use in runtime deployment. An implementation will not need to support all possible combinations. It is= really a matter of what the industry standard -the like of Thread or Wi-Su= n- that would use RPL P DAO needs. You see it today, most implementations o= f RPL do not support both storing and non-storing modes. But we have a cons= istent RPL RFC which can do both with most things in common. This is something we also observe with RFC 6282. The RFC has to propose all= possibilities in a consistent fashion with a clear architecture that encom= passes all cases. But you find that open source implementations, Thread or = Wi-Sun did not necessarily support the same cases, and would not necessaril= y interoperate. Since those implementations face one another, that is not a= n issue. When an industry standard moves to P-DAO, it may support, say, only strict = non-storing mode P-DAOs, if the problem is P2P/automation. It may create on= ly one, or it may create more than one P2P path from ingress to egress. It = may enable tunneling or not. Another standard may only care to shorten the SRH in the main DODAG, in whi= ch case it will not need the sibling information and the tracks, but just t= he storing mode P-DAO in the main DODAG. Just like today we have storing m= ode only and non-storing mode only implementations. This is the original us= e of mixed P-DAO segments with loose SRH path. This use case makes a lot of= sense and is the reason why the group originally adopted the draft. Because it proposes a consistent model, the draft allows a combination of t= racks and segments. In that case, the SRH that defines a Track is loose, an= d storing mode segments join the dots, like they do in the main DODAG. I ag= ree with you, that can be complex in current use cases. So I do not expect = industry standards to pick it up day 1. But should we add text to say do no= t do it? It would be a lot worse if there were 10 RFCs that operate differently with= no consistency and overall architecture! > The original requirement I want to get from pdao-draft is finding an avai= lable p2p path from PCE with lowest cost. Which means easy to get route ent= ry from PCE and easy to maintain in node. > Because either rpl local instance or aodv-p2p mechanism will leverage mor= e DIO/DAO/NS messages to maintain the route path. Yes, maybe you can live with non-storing strict SRH for that use case. Do y= ou also need to compress the SRH in the main DODAG? I would suspect so. Keep safe; Pascal From: Roll On Behalf Of Li Zhao (liz3) Sent: mardi 8 d=E9cembre 2020 02:07 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Hello Pascal, Yes. There is no segment in non-storing mode anymore... It seems that we ei= ther back to egress as root or accept this shortage? More comments line... Btw, I think mixed storing PDAO /non-storing PDAO/Stitched Segments is comp= lex and maybe little bit hard to use in runtime deployment. The original requirement I want to get from pdao-draft is finding an availa= ble p2p path from PCE with lowest cost. Which means easy to get route entry= from PCE and easy to maintain in node. Because either rpl local instance or aodv-p2p mechanism will leverage more = DIO/DAO/NS messages to maintain the route path. Best regards, Li From: Roll > Date: Friday, November 27, 2020 at 19:52 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Dear all On this thread we decided to change the Root from being the Track egress to= being the ingress. That is cool for many reasons, but as i said that kills= the possibility to "reload" the routing header in a multi-segment Track wh= ere the segments are expressed as non-storing P-DAOs. Why? The operation I presented at IETF 109 involves changing the packet source a= t the segment stitching point and still recognize the packet as being part = of a Track. The change above makes the packet source is the Root of the Tra= ck, so the packet source now identifies the Track (together with the RPI). = Non-storing P-DAOs require to add a routing header. If header insertion was= allowed then that would not be an issue. But to add a RH cleanly at the segments stitching point, the connecting rou= ter needs to decapsulate the previous segment and encapsulate the next segm= ent with the RH. The connecting router becomes the source, thus the root. M= eaning that the segment is in fact a Track in its own right as opposed to a= segment of the complex Track. Another way to say that there is no segment in non-storing mode anymore. Th= ere are only Tracks that can be further assembled into more complex graphs.= That is, unless as I said we allow RH insertion despite the disputes we ob= serve on the same subject at 6MAN about Segment Routing. Or the TrackID is = taken from the Global Instance IDs name space. At the moment I'm ignoring t= hose options which lead to either political issues or technical limitations= . A complex Track can still be expressed as a collection of loose source rout= ing paths from a same Ingress =3D=3D Root. Think of it as a Segment Routing Policy for those familiar with SR. The dif= ference is that in SR the loose hops are ECMP path served by the IGP. Here we'll need either non-storing Tracks or storing mode segments, the dif= ference being that the storing mode segments do not required re-encapsulati= on. Note that in either case, there can be multiple NECMP possibilities. An example maybe? Say we have ------ F A------B------C------D------E < ------ G A is Track ingress, E is track Egress. C is stitching point. F and G are E'= s neighbors, "external" to the Track, and reachable from A over the Track A= ->E. In a general manner we want: * PDAO 1 signals A->B->C * PDAO 2 signals C->B->E * PDAO 3 signals F and G via the A->E Track PDAO 3 being loose, it can only be non-storing. Note that since the Root is= always the ingress of a Track, and all SR-VIOs are now Track, the Root bei= ng signaled in the DAO base object can now be elided in the VIA list in SR-= VIO. This enables the construction by the main root of the RFC 8138 optimiz= ed SRH-6LoRH in the SR-VIO, to be placed as is in the packet by the Root. 1) Storing mode Segments -------------------------------- A->B->C and C->D->E are segments of a same Track. Note that the storing mode signaling imposes strict continuity in a segment= . This may also avoid weird loops. Case 1.1) Stitched Segments 1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E,= Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E, F, G 2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, = B, C, Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E, F, G E recognizes that it is egress because it is a Target and a segment endpoin= t. Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destination =3D E | F | G, and RP= I =3D 129. >From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C. >From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E. Case 1.2) External routes 1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E,= Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E 2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, = B, C, Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO = =3D E, Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D F, G >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G as below; Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destination =3D E, and RPI =3D 12= 9. >From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C. >From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E. E decapsulates if encapsulated packet. Case 1.3) Segment Routing 1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E,= Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E 2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to B. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, = B, Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D B, C 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO = =3D C, E, Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D F, G >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G as below; Packets from A have source=3D A, destination =3D C, SRH =3D E, and RPI =3D = 129. >From PDAO 2: A forwards to B. B forwards to C based on a sibling connected route; C consumes the RH and m= akes the destination E. >From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E. E decapsulates if encapsulated packet. 2) Non Storing mode joining Tracks --------------------------------------------- A->B->C and C->D->E are Tracks expressed as non-storing P-DAOs. Case 2.1 Stitched Tracks 1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E= , Track ID 131 from C's namespace, Target =3D E, F, G 2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D= B, C, Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E, F, G >From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D E | F | G. The outer hea= der has source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH =3D C and RPI =3D 129. Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination =3D C , SRH =3D, and R= PI =3D 129. C decapsulates. >From PDAO 1: C encapsulates packets with dest =3D E | F | G. The outer he= ader has source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI =3D 131. E decapsulates. Case 2.2 External routes 1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E= , Track ID 131 from C's namespace, Target =3D E 2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D= B, C, Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO = =3D E, Track ID 141 from A's namespace, Target =3D F, G >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G. The outer header= has source =3D A, destination =3D E, and RPI =3D 141. This may recurse with: >From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D E. The outer header has = source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH =3D C and RPI =3D 129. Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination =3D C , SRH =3D, and R= PI =3D 129. C decapsulates. >From PDAO 1: C encapsulates packets with dest =3D E. The outer header has= source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI =3D 131. E decapsulates if encapsulated. Case 2.3 Segment Routing 1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E= , Track ID 131 from C's namespace, Target =3D E 2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D= B, Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D C, E 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO = =3D C, E, Track ID 141 from A's namespace, Target =3D F, G >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G. The outer header= has source =3D A, destination =3D C, SRH =3D E, and RPI =3D 141. This may recurse with: >From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D C | E . The outer header= has source =3D A, destination =3D B, and RPI =3D 129. B decapsulates forwards to C based on a sibling connected route; C consumes= the RH and makes the destination E. >From PDAO 1: C encapsulates packets with dest =3D E. The outer header has= source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI =3D 131. E decapsulates, twice for dest =3D F | G. Does that work so far? Keep safe Pascal From: Roll > On Behalf = Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert) Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020 11:47 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Hello Li In the packet, there's a bit in the RPI to say if the root is the source or= the destination. That's RFC 6550. I guess the discussion is related to the PDR and P-DAO, not data packet, th= ough it impacts the ICMP error reporting. In a packet along the P-Route, the idea was so far that the DODAG is a conv= ergecast to the destination so the destination is the root. If we say that = there's a single ingress and a single egress then the dodag is reversible a= nd either can be the root. If we want to support multicast tracks in the fu= ture, then the ingress should be root. If the Track has a single ingress and a single egress, then the DODAG is re= versible into another DODAG and it does not matter which is root, so we can= make it bidir as Huimin asked. The storing mode P DAO would look a lot more like a DAO, as you pointed out= , if it goes towards the root. If we want to take that path, a node could l= earn both directions with a single storing mode P DAO. To be continued... For non-storing, making bidir is really hard. It seems easier to install a = Track in both directions and couple them. As a summary of the proposed changes: General - we make the root the ingress - ICMP errors sent to the Root, using the main DODAG if the track is not re= versible Storing mode P DAO: - we also make the root the ingress, P-DAO from egress to ingress are now m= ore similar to RPL DAO operation - the track could be made bi-directional, but that's more code; if so: - the packet forwarding leverages the RPI to indicate the direction, from= or to root - ICMP errors sent to the Root, could be source or destination. Non storing mode P DAO: - tracks remain directional, can be coupled, how is tbd - the RPI is mostly useless since the intermediate nodes do not know the in= stance (they see neither the DIO nor the P-DAO); they have no idea of their= Rank. Still, it is interesting to have is for error determination in an IC= PMP error at eth root. It is also interesting if the SRH forwarding nodes h= ave a state associated to the Track, e.g., reserved time slots or priority = queues. - the RPI is still a SHOULD when there's no compression and a MUST when the= re is. We need to clarify what to do, that's another of Huimin's questions,= taken separately. - ICMP errors forwarding packets are sent to the root which is now the ingr= ess, aka the source of the packet, and the encapsulator field if the packet= is encapsulated and compressed. This is common to any non-storing operatio= n, whether it is a main Instance, local Instance, or Track. The RPI therein= is useful to indicate the Track in Error. So for that matter the forwarder= does not need to make a difference Track vs. other form of RPL local insta= nce. - this impacts the discussion in SRH reloading we had at IETF 109, when a = N-S mode loose track is forwarded along a segment that is also NS mode. We'= ll probably need to re-encapsulate now. In case of re-encapsulation, the r= e-encapsulator becomes source and root of the segment, which now has to be = considered as a serial Track; as tunnel headends do, it will have to decaps= ulate the tunneled packet to send the packet in error back to the ingress o= f the loose track Doe that work? Pascal From: Roll > On Behalf = Of Li Zhao (liz3) Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020 03:45 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Hello Pascal, If either source or destination can be root, it's better to identify when o= r in which case source or destination can be root. Otherwise, it's hard to = interop between different implement even though they both follow RFC standa= rd. E.g. for non-storing mode PDAO, if source is root, PCE only responses PDR-A= CK after receiving PDR from source. But if destination is root, PCE should also notify destination which tracki= d is used. Maybe we need bring new message for this notification? Take care, Li From: Roll > Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 21:54 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Hello Li; Well noted. This was the original intent. The change was made to egress bec= ause the idea was that the track could enable multiple sources to reach the= egress, like a tree rooted at the egress that flows traverse going down. B= ut the idea of a bidirectional track kinda blocks that idea and the other i= ssues like the one you point out seem to get us back to the original view. = I recently made the change from ingress to egress in the 6TiSCH architectur= e, waiting in RFC editor queue. I could reverse back, or maybe say "either = source or destination" so it can be egress or egress and we are covered for= bidirectional. What do you think? Or should a reversable Track be really a pair of tracks? Keep safe; Pascal From: Roll > On Behalf = Of Li Zhao (liz3) Sent: mercredi 25 novembre 2020 05:57 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questi= ons on P-DAO Hello Pascal, Ingress as Root looks better because 1. It is consistent with the way RPL usually works. RPL Local instance, ao= dv-rpl, p2p-rpl all use ingress as root. 2. For non-storing-mode P-DAO, currently ingress sends upward traffic to e= gress(root) with SR header. But in RPL, only downward traffic carries SR he= ader. 3. Only ingress can send PDR makes sense. Behavior of TrackId is similar a= s Local Instance ID. Ingress as root can propose TrackId from its namespace= . And for storing-mode P-DAO, if we make ingress as root and ingress sends PD= R, can PCE send P-DAO to egress then egress forwards it towards predecessor= to ingress? Maybe it helps to make P-DAO looks like a DAO message. Best regards, Li From: Roll > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 21:39 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions = on P-DAO Dear all Whether to make the P-DAO bidirectional is an intriguing question. It could= be done, just like we can send packets DOWN a classical DODAG. But if we take that path, we reopen the question of who is root and which d= irection the P-DAO flies. Could we make either the ingress OR the egress root? How does it matter? At the moment the Root is the egress and the storing-mode P-DAO flies from = the Track egress to the track ingress, and the track egress is the root. Th= is is not the way RPL usually works as the DAO flies towards the root. The = reason was that we wanted a single egress for the Track, as we build unicas= t Track. If we wanted to build multicast Tracks the root should logically b= e the ingress. And for bidirectional Tracks it could be either. Up to -24 the 6TiSCH Architecture expected the ingress to be root. I change= d in the latest to map we do here, that it is the egress; maybe a flag in t= he DAO would indicate which direction the flow, from root, to root, or both= ? Also if we build bidir Tracks in storing mode, the nodes that forward the D= AO will have to build routes in both directions based on the P-DAO, both to= wards egress and ingress; but only the path from which the P-DAO comes has = been validated by the P-DAO itself. Should we send a P-DAO to each end, eac= h setting up one way? Please let me know your thoughts Pascal From: Roll > On Behalf = Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert) Sent: mardi 24 novembre 2020 14:22 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: [Roll] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO Dear all The slides for the P-DAO discussion at IETF 109 are available here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-109-roll-dao-projection/ There are a number of open questions that we starting discussing, and would= need to progress on the list. Some of them were expressed on the list, e.g., from Huimin She. I'd like to= progress on them all with individual threads. The questions are: 1. Lifetime Unit: could we use a different unit for P-DAO? 2. How to differentiate a P-DAO from a normal DAO in a local instance; n= ew flag? 3. Make P-DAO bidirectional? 4. Who sends the PDR? Does it have to be the ingress? If it was egress i= t could propose a TrackId from its namespace. Else could the ingress be the= root? 5. Maintaining the sibling state. Should we have text on using RFC 8505 = there? 6. Whether ingress and egress are listed in NPO? Today they are both, in= gress to indicate the packet source in case of encapsulation and for SRH-6L= oRH compression reference and egress to build the full SRH-6LoRH. Note that= the ingress must consume the first entry and use it as source. 7. Track in Track vs. SR Header reload models, see slides Let me open threads to follow up. Keep safe Pascal --_000_CO1PR11MB48819E978A4064D00E869A75D8CD0CO1PR11MB4881namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Li:

 

> Yes. There is no segment in non-storing mode anymore... It se= ems that we either back to egress as root or accept this shortage?

 

I have been bouncing between the 2. You can see that in the = diffs in the 6TiSCH architecture. I did again when you suggested the change= back to the ingress is root. We need to settle. The change was a lot of work (https://tools.ietf.org/= rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-15.txt). The reason why I= accepted the change is that the RH reload that II explained at IETF 109 is far from accepted at 6MAN, and the histor= y we have there with RH insertion does not leave much hope anyway. Which le= aves us with:

 

a) Tracks are non-storing  paths expressed in strict or= loose source route. Simple implementations only do strict

b) Segments are storing mode paths, that stitch loose SRH pa= ths. This applies to the main DODAG and to Tracks. That’s the normal = segment routing case 1.3 below.

 

What is also possible but more complex:

c) A path can be established by stitching segments without d= eclaring a Track (that’s case 1.1 below). The Track is implicit.=

d) Instead of declaring a storing mode segment between 2 loo= se SRH hops, the path can be another Track in which case we need to encapsu= late between the loose hops. That’s the non-storing segment routing case 2.3 below.

 

And then there can be tunneling of traffic beyond the egress= , e.g., if the egress is a station with multiple devices in it.<= /span>

 

> Btw, I think mixed storing PDAO /non-storing PDAO/Stitched Se= gments is complex and maybe little bit hard to use in runtime deployment.

 

 

An implementation will not need to support all possible comb= inations. It is really a matter of what the industry standard -the like of = Thread or Wi-Sun- that would use RPL P DAO needs. You see it today, most implementations of RPL do not support both s= toring and non-storing modes. But we have a consistent RPL RFC which can do= both with most things in common.

 

This is something we also observe with RFC 6282. The RFC has= to propose all possibilities in a consistent fashion with a clear architec= ture that encompasses all cases. But you find that open source implementations, Thread or Wi-Sun did not necessaril= y support the same cases, and would not necessarily interoperate. Since tho= se implementations face one another, that is not an issue.

 

When an industry standard moves to P-DAO, it may support, sa= y, only strict non-storing mode P-DAOs, if the problem is P2P/automation. I= t may create only one, or it may create more than one P2P path from ingress to egress. It may enable tunneling or = not.

 

Another standard may only care to shorten the SRH in the mai= n DODAG, in which case it will not need the sibling information and the tra= cks, but just the storing mode P-DAO in the main DODAG.  Just like today we have storing mode only and non-st= oring mode only implementations. This is the original use of mixed P-DAO se= gments with loose SRH path. This use case makes a lot of sense and is the r= eason why the group originally adopted the draft.

 

Because it proposes a consistent model, the draft allows a c= ombination of tracks and segments. In that case, the SRH that defines a Tra= ck is loose, and storing mode segments join the dots, like they do in the main DODAG. I agree with you, that can be co= mplex in current use cases. So I do not expect industry standards to pick i= t up day 1. But should we add text to say do not do it?

 

It would be a lot worse if there were 10 RFCs that operate d= ifferently with no consistency and overall architecture!<= /font>

 

> The original requirement I want to get from pdao-draft = is finding an available p2p path from PCE with lowest cost. Which means eas= y to get route entry from PCE and easy to maintain in node.

 

> Because either rpl local instance or aodv-p2p mechanism= will leverage more DIO/DAO/NS messages to maintain the route path.

 

Yes, maybe you can live with non-storing strict SRH for that= use case. Do you also need to compress the SRH in the main DODAG? I would = suspect so.

 

Keep safe;

 

Pascal

 

From: Roll <roll-bo= unces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Li Zhao (liz3)<= br> Sent: mardi 8 d=E9cembre 202= 0 02:07
To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-D= AO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO

 

Hello Pascal,

 

Yes. There is no segment in non-storing mode a= nymore... It seems that we either back to egress as root or accept this sho= rtage?

 

 

 

More comments line…

 

Btw, I think mixed storing PDAO /non-storing PDAO/Stitched Segments is complex and maybe little bit hard to use in runtim= e deployment.

The original requirement I want to get from pdao-draft is fi= nding an available p2p path from PCE with lowest cost. Which means easy to = get route entry from PCE and easy to maintain in node.

Because either rpl local instance or aodv-p2p mechanism will= leverage more DIO/DAO/NS messages to maintain the route path.

 

 

Best regards,

Li

 

 

From: Roll <roll= -bounces@ietf.org>
Date: Friday, November 27, 2= 020 at 19:52
To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>= ;
Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-D= AO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO

Dear all

 

<hard thinking here, sorry, been scratching my head quite= a bit, so please bear with me>

 

On this thread we decided to change the Root from being the = Track egress to being the ingress. That is cool for many reasons, but as i = said that kills the possibility to “reload” the routing header in a multi-segment Track where the segments are express= ed as non-storing P-DAOs. Why?

 

The operation I presented at IETF 109 involves changing the = packet source at the segment stitching point and still recognize the packet= as being part of a Track. The change above makes the packet source is the Root of the Track, so the packet source now= identifies the Track (together with the RPI). Non-storing P-DAOs require t= o add a routing header. If header insertion was allowed then that would not= be an issue.

 

But to add a RH cleanly at the segments stitching point, the= connecting router needs to decapsulate the previous segment and encapsulat= e the next segment with the RH. The connecting router becomes the source, thus the root. Meaning that the segment is in f= act a Track in its own right as opposed to a segment of the complex Track.

 

Another way to say that there is no segment in non-storing m= ode anymore. There are only Tracks that can be further assembled into more = complex graphs. That is, unless as I said we allow RH insertion despite the disputes we observe on the same subject = at 6MAN about Segment Routing. Or the TrackID is taken from the Global Inst= ance IDs name space. At the moment I’m ignoring those options which l= ead to either political issues or technical limitations.

 

 

A complex Track can still be expressed as a collection of lo= ose source routing paths from a same Ingress =3D=3D Root.

 

Think of it as a Segment Routing Policy for those familiar w= ith SR. The difference is that in SR the loose hops are ECMP path served by= the IGP.

 

Here we’ll need either non-storing Tracks or storing m= ode segments, the difference being that the storing mode segments do not re= quired re-encapsulation. Note that in either case, there can be multiple NECMP possibilities.

 

 

An example maybe?

 

 

Say we have

 =

   &n= bsp;            = ;             &= nbsp;  ------ F

A------B------C-----= -D------E <

   &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;   ------ G

 

 

A is Track ingress, E is track Egress. C is stitching point.= F and G are E’s neighbors, “external” to the Track, and = reachable from A over the Track A->E.

In a general manner we want:

  • PD= AO 1 signals A->B->C
  • PDAO 2 signals C->= B->E
  • PDAO 3 signals F and G via the A->E Track

 

PDAO 3 being loose, it can only be non-storing. Note that si= nce the Root is always the ingress of a Track, and all SR-VIOs are now Trac= k, the Root being signaled in the DAO base object can now be elided in the VIA list in SR-VIO. This enables the const= ruction by the main root of the RFC 8138 optimized SRH-6LoRH in the SR-VIO,= to be placed as is in the packet by the Root.

 

 

1) Storing mode Segments

--------------------------------

 

A->B->C and C->D->E are segments of a same Track= .

Note that the storing mode signaling imposes strict continui= ty in a segment. This may also avoid weird loops.<= /p>

 

Case 1.1) Stitched Segments

 

  1. st= oring mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E, Track I= D 129 from A’s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G=
  2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, B, = C, Track ID 129 from A’s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G

 

E recognizes that it is egress because it is a Target and a = segment endpoint.

 

Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destination =3D E = | F | G, and RPI =3D 129.

From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C.=

From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E.=

 

 

Case 1.2) External routes

 

  1. st= oring mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E, Track I= D 129 from A’s namespace, Target =3D E
    2. <= li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 l= fo3">sto= ring mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, B, C, Tra= ck ID 129 from A’s namespace, Target =3D E
  2. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It h= as Root =3D A, SRVIO =3D E, Track ID 129 from A’s namespace, Target = =3D F, G

 

From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D  &nbs= p;F | G as below;

Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destination =3D E,= and RPI =3D 129.

From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C.=

From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E.=

E decapsulates if encapsulated packet.

 

 

 

Case 1.3) Segment Routing

 

  1. st= oring mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C, D, E, Track I= D 129 from A’s namespace, Target =3D E
    2. <= li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l7 level1 l= fo4">sto= ring mode PDAO 2 is then sent to B. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D A, B, Track = ID 129 from A’s namespace, Target =3D B, C
  2. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It h= as Root =3D A, SRVIO =3D C, E, Track ID 129 from A’s namespace, Targe= t =3D F, G

 

 

From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D  &nbs= p;F | G as below;

Packets from A have source=3D A, destination =3D C, SRH =3D = E, and RPI =3D 129.

From PDAO 2: A forwards to B.

B forwards to C based on a sibling connected route; C consum= es the RH and makes the destination E.

From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E.

E decapsulates if encapsulated packet.

 

 

 

2) Non Storing mode joining Tracks

---------------------------------------------

 

A->B->C and C->D->E are Tracks expressed as non-= storing P-DAOs.

 

Case 2.1 Stitched Tracks

 

  1. no= n storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E, Track = ID 131 from C’s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G
  2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D B= , C, Track ID 129 from A’s namespace, Target =3D E, F, G

 

From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D  E | = F | G. The outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH =3D C and = RPI =3D 129.

Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination =3D C ,= SRH =3D, and RPI =3D 129. C decapsulates.

From PDAO 1: C  encapsulates packets with dest =3D &nbs= p;E | F | G. The outer header has source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E= and RPI =3D 131.

E decapsulates.

 

 

Case 2.2 External routes

 

  1. no= n storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E, Track = ID 131 from C’s namespace, Target =3D E
    2. =
  2. no= n storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D B, C, T= rack ID 129 from A’s namespace, Target =3D E=
  3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVIO =3D = E, Track ID 141 from A’s namespace, Target =3D F, G=

 

 

From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D  &nbs= p;F | G. The outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D E, and RPI =3D = 141.

This may recurse with:

From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D  E. T= he outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH =3D C and RPI =3D = 129.

Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination =3D C ,= SRH =3D, and RPI =3D 129. C decapsulates.

From PDAO 1: C  encapsulates packets with dest =3D &nbs= p;E. The outer header has source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI= =3D 131.

E decapsulates if encapsulated.

 

 

Case 2.3 Segment Routing

 

  1. no= n storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO =3D D, E, Track = ID 131 from C’s namespace, Target =3D E
    2. =
  2. no= n storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D B, &nbs= p;Track ID 129 from A’s namespace, Target =3D C, E<= /font>
  3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, SRVI= O =3D C, E, Track ID 141 from A’s namespace, Target =3D F, G

 

 

From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D  &nbs= p;F | G. The outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D C, SRH =3D E, a= nd RPI =3D 141.

This may recurse with:

From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D  C | = E . The outer header has source =3D A, destination =3D B, and RPI =3D 129.

B decapsulates forwards to C based on a sibling connected ro= ute; C consumes the RH and makes the destination E.

From PDAO 1: C  encapsulates packets with dest =3D &nbs= p;E. The outer header has source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI= =3D 131.

E decapsulates, twice for dest =3D   F | G.

 

 

Does that work so far?

 

Keep safe

 

Pascal

 

 

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert = (pthubert)
Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020= 11:47
To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>= ;
Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-D= AO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO

 

Hello Li

 

In the packet, there’s a bit in the RPI to say if the = root is the source or the destination. That’s RFC 6550.

I guess the discussion is related to the PDR and P-DAO, not = data packet, though it impacts the ICMP error reporting.<= /font>

 

In a packet along the P-Route, the idea was so far that the = DODAG is a convergecast to the destination so the destination is the root. = If we say that there’s a single ingress and a single egress then the dodag is reversible and either can be the roo= t. If we want to support multicast tracks in the future, then the ingress s= hould be root.

 

If the Track has a single ingress and a single egress, then = the DODAG is reversible into another DODAG and it does not matter which is = root, so we can make it bidir as Huimin asked.

The storing mode P DAO would look a lot more like a DAO, as = you pointed out, if it goes towards the root. If we want to take that path,= a node could learn both directions with a single storing mode P DAO. To be continued…

 

For non-storing, making bidir is really hard. It seems easie= r to install a Track in both directions and couple them.<= /font>

 

As a summary of the proposed changes:

 

General

- we make the root the ingress

- ICMP errors sent to the Root, using the main DODAG if the = track is not reversible

 

 

Storing mode P DAO:

- we also make the root the ingress, P-DAO from egress to in= gress are now more similar to RPL DAO operation

- the track could be made bi-directional, but that’s m= ore code; if so:

  - the packet forwarding leverages the RPI to indicate= the direction, from or to root

  - ICMP errors sent to the Root, could be source or de= stination.

 

Non storing mode P DAO:

- tracks remain directional, can be coupled, how is tbd=

- the RPI is mostly useless since the intermediate nodes do = not know the instance (they see neither the DIO nor the P-DAO); they have n= o idea of their Rank. Still, it is interesting to have is for error determination in an ICPMP error at eth root. It is al= so interesting if the SRH forwarding nodes have a state associated to the T= rack, e.g., reserved time slots or priority queues.

- the RPI is still a SHOULD when there’s no compressio= n and a MUST when there is. We need to clarify what to do, that’s ano= ther of Huimin’s questions, taken separately.

- ICMP errors forwarding packets are sent to the root which = is now the ingress, aka the source of the packet, and the encapsulator fiel= d if the packet is encapsulated and compressed. This is common to any non-storing operation, whether it is a main Instance= , local Instance, or Track. The RPI therein is useful to indicate the Track= in Error. So for that matter the forwarder does not need to make a differe= nce Track vs. other form of RPL local instance.

- this impacts the discussion in SRH reloading we had at IET= F 109, when a  N-S mode loose track is forwarded along a segment that = is also NS mode. We’ll probably need to re-encapsulate now.  In case of re-encapsulation, the re-encapsulator becomes source= and root of the segment, which now has to be considered as a serial Track;= as tunnel headends do, it will have to decapsulate the tunneled packet to = send the packet in error back to the ingress of the loose track

 

 

Doe that work?

 

Pascal

 

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Li Zhao (liz3)<= br> Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020= 03:45
To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>= ;
Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-D= AO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO

 

Hello Pascal,

 

If either source or destination can be root, it’s bett= er to identify when or in which case source or destination can be root. Oth= erwise, it’s hard to interop between different implement even though they both follow RFC standard.

 

E.g. for non-storing mode PDAO, if source is root, PCE only = responses PDR-ACK after receiving PDR from source.=

But if destination is root, PCE should also notify destinati= on which trackid is used. Maybe we need bring new message for this notifica= tion?

 

 

Take care,

Li

 

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ie= tf.org>
Date: Wednesday, November 25= , 2020 at 21:54
To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org= >
Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-D= AO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO

Hello Li;

 

Well noted. This was the original intent. The change was mad= e to egress because the idea was that the track could enable multiple sourc= es to reach the egress, like a tree rooted at the egress that flows traverse going down. But the idea of a bidirectio= nal track kinda blocks that idea and the other issues like the one you poin= t out seem to get us back to the original view. I recently made the change = from ingress to egress in the 6TiSCH architecture, waiting in RFC editor queue. I could reverse back, or maybe = say “either source or destination” so it can be egress or egres= s and we are covered for bidirectional.

What do you think?

Or should a reversable Track be really a pair of tracks?

 

Keep safe;

 

Pascal

 

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Li Zhao (liz3)<= br> Sent: mercredi 25 novembre 2= 020 05:57
To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>= ;
Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-D= AO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO

 

Hello Pascal,

 

Ingress as Root looks better because

1.  It is consistent with the way RPL usually works. RP= L Local instance, aodv-rpl, p2p-rpl all use ingress as root.

2.  For non-storing-mode P-DAO, currently ingress sends= upward traffic to egress(root) with SR header. But in RPL, only downward t= raffic carries SR header.

3.  Only i= ngress can send PDR makes sense. Behavior of TrackId is similar as Local Instance= ID. Ingress as root can propose TrackId from its namespace.<= o:p>

 

 

And for storing-mode P-DAO, if we make ingress as root and i= ngress sends PDR, can PCE send P-DAO to egress then egress forwards it towa= rds predecessor to ingress?

Maybe it helps to make P-DAO looks like a DAO message.

 

 

Best regards,

Li

 

 

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ie= tf.org>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, = 2020 at 21:39
To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org= >
Subject: [Roll] Make P-DAO b= idirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO<= /o:p>

Dear all

 

Whether to make the P-DAO bidirectional is an intriguing que= stion. It could be done, just like we can send packets DOWN a classical DOD= AG.

But if we take that path, we reopen the question of who is r= oot and which direction the P-DAO flies.

 

Could we make either the ingress OR the egress root? How doe= s it matter?

 

At the moment the Root is the egress and the storing-mode P-= DAO flies from the Track egress to the track ingress, and the track egress = is the root. This is not the way RPL usually works as the DAO flies towards the root. The reason was that we wanted a s= ingle egress for the Track, as we build unicast Track. If we wanted to buil= d multicast Tracks the root should logically be the ingress. And for bidire= ctional Tracks it could be either.

 

Up to -24 the 6TiSCH Architecture expected the ingress to be= root. I changed in the latest to map we do here, that it is the egress; ma= ybe a flag in the DAO would indicate which direction the flow, from root, to root, or both?<= /p>

 

Also if we build bidir Tracks in storing mode, the nodes tha= t forward the DAO will have to build routes in both directions based on the= P-DAO, both towards egress and ingress; but only the path from which the P-DAO comes has been validated by the P-D= AO itself. Should we send a P-DAO to each end, each setting up one way?

 

Please let me know your thoughts

 

Pascal

 

 

From: Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert = (pthubert)
Sent: mardi 24 novembre 2020= 14:22
To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>= ;
Subject: [Roll] IETF 109 ope= n Questions on P-DAO

 

Dear all

 

The slides for the P-DAO discussion at IETF 109 are availabl= e here:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-109-roll-dao-proje= ction/

 

There are a number of open questions that we starting discus= sing, and would need to progress on the list.

Some of them were expressed on the list, e.g., from Huimin S= he. I’d like to progress on them all with individual threads.

The questions are:

 

  1. Li= fetime Unit: could we use a different unit for P-DAO?
  2. How to differentiate a P-DAO from a normal DAO in a local instance; n= ew flag?
  3. Make P-DAO bidirectional?
  4. Who sends the PDR? Does it have to be the ingress? If it was= egress it could propose a TrackId from its namespace. Else could the ingress be the root?
  5. Maintaining the = sibling state. Should we have text on using RFC 8505 there?
  6. Whether ingress and egress are listed in NPO? Today they are bo= th, ingress to indicate the packet source in case of encapsulation and for SRH-6LoRH compression reference and egress to build the full SRH-6= LoRH. Note that the ingress must consume the first entry and use it as sour= ce.
  7. Track in Track vs. SR Header reload models, = see slides

 

Let me open threads to follow up.

 

Keep safe

 

Pascal

 

 

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Tue, 8 Dec 2020 14:08:00 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , "Michael Richardson" Thread-Topic: RFC 6550bis: suppressing the security modes Thread-Index: AdbNP79oYYJtA3IORLuvhPviTbtM5g== Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 14:07:30 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 13:53:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2a01:cb1d:4ec:2200:c1db:8050:8928:80e5] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7caf6ed2-7fff-45c6-c3e1-08d89b82abd7 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1824: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: CS21KJ765srYfa1osSQwzDwwdALzcSc2YZAbWE18bSufuiNzvSN+Ky+7gxFCkluuaxwWHzHdDp3R8iT53JoSCI3/DIjbKKA5ZlRAfiPJezZdeWBgnd6WOElqDR0f7wNX4DOy3SG5gM/X0rpxS4yI1CeZXb08OBZ5VaiBz+7T8RQ9SP7HVseJwHUE7EiZ7P7pGl/0Kd/Z1ZHqBqbDzeWhkNbLZXV8QuqsFZec42r7GEKl93eLAtklOWMmPayOCwMHw+i8OL4D1eToa1ZkneLYPucpLyks51oC86gAJF2sSlpMm1Z+BgZnsWpS9Vxo47mn0Qxya1/6PrnddL0VfaS9opZKosH4bLY9mvikJsbzXydm4sWUkHmrfE2eYgVDgHjbSEzSBGuD4pHX0B/OkbB/ag== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_CO1PR11MB4881A474E4EC3E99FFC00BDCD8CD0CO1PR11MB4881namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7caf6ed2-7fff-45c6-c3e1-08d89b82abd7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Dec 2020 14:08:00.3037 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: e3+ASC2Lp/DDJ6RStXFkE64Q2mBfASPhJljPRGR9SvPFD0aZgwO7XokOc3iZ8FDZyM2cVHPFpTIAq3vn1DbYGw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1824 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.12, xch-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] RFC 6550bis: suppressing the security modes X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 14:08:16 -0000 --_000_CO1PR11MB4881A474E4EC3E99FFC00BDCD8CD0CO1PR11MB4881namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear ROLLers; At IETF 109, we talked about what goes away with RFC 6550bis. The first thing that came to mind was the security modes, https://www.ietf.= org/archive/id/draft-pthubert-roll-rfc6550bis-00.html#name-security and the= secure objects that go with it, e.g., https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draf= t-pthubert-roll-rfc6550bis-00.html#name-secure-dao. I'd like to publish a rev 1 that has this removal, and for tracking purpose= I'd wish to have the arguments logged in this thread. Michael, I think you= mentioned that the way it is done here is impractical to obsolete. Could y= ou please elaborate? You all keep safe, Pascal --_000_CO1PR11MB4881A474E4EC3E99FFC00BDCD8CD0CO1PR11MB4881namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear ROLLers;

 

At IETF 109, we talked about what goes away with RFC 6550bis= .

 

The first thing that came to mind was the security modes, https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-pthubert-roll-rfc6550bis-00.html#name= -security and the secure objects that go with it, e.g., https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-pthubert-roll-rfc6550bis-00.html#name= -secure-dao.

 

I’d like to publish a rev 1 that has this removal, and= for tracking purpose I’d wish to have the arguments logged in this t= hread. Michael, I think you mentioned that the way it is done here is impractical to obsolete. Could you please elaborate?<= /o:p>

 

You all keep safe,

 

Pascal

 

 

 

 

--_000_CO1PR11MB4881A474E4EC3E99FFC00BDCD8CD0CO1PR11MB4881namp_-- From nobody Tue Dec 8 07:02:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A90E3A0F49; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 07:02:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Peter Van der Stok via Datatracker To: Cc: last-call@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160743972812.4353.2327485830954240210@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Peter Van der Stok Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 07:02:08 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-23 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 15:02:08 -0000 Reviewer: Peter Van der Stok Review result: Ready with Issues IOT_DIR review of draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-23 Many thanks for this document that will certainly help developers of products with very high energy constraints. The draft reads rather easily from a linguistic perspective. Unfortunately, some terminology is very difficult to understand. Especially page 4 needs some improvement. This review mainly suggests a simplified terminology; I hope that it helps to reduce the complexity of the draft. peter van der stok ______________________________________________________________________________ Another introduction of terms is suggested for page 4 like: Replace the first three Alineas of page 4 with: Useofrplinfo introduces the terms Ripple Aware Leaf and Ripple Unaware Leaf. A Ripple Aware Leaf is part of a RPL DODAG. A Ripple Unaware Leaf (RUL) is not. A RUL is connected to a 6Lowpan Router (6LR) to send packets over the DODAG that the 6LR belongs to. This note specifies how the RUL communicates with the 6LR and the connected DODAG. In this specification the RUL MUST be a 6lowpan Node (6LN). In contrast, other Ripple Unaware Nodes (RUN) are not 6LNs. In the Alinea: ‘examples …..and/or metering’: s/lightly powered/ severely energy constrained/ And add: The connection of the RUL to the DODAG makes use of the NON-Storing Mechanism even when the DODAG is operated in Storing mode. The unicast forwarding of a RUL packet from the 6LR onwards is described in section 4.1 of useofrplinfo. s/ RPL router/6RL/ page 5 s/6LN/RUL/ s/This document often uses/This document uses/ page 6. After al 1 add: 6LN can be a RAL or RUL. A 6LR is Ripple Aware per definition. Remove ‘This document… RPL by itself’ Page 7, section 3, Introduce the term: The start-6LR is the 6LR that is connected to the RUL. Page 7 everywhere, s/routers/6LR/ Section 3, Alinea 3: s/the root and the 6LR/the root and the start-6LR/ I don’t understand phrase: ‘A RUL is an example ….Host route’ Replace ‘so unless .. serves the RUL)’ by: If the packet from the RUL has no RPI, the 6LR tunnels it to the Root to add an RPI. Page 8 s/ inner packet/encapsulated packet/ Remove ‘[USEofRPLinfo] expects ….to a Host.’ (Unnecessary phrase, RUL is 6LN) The purpose of Sections 4.2.1, 4.2.2 and 4.2.3 is very unclear. In my perception, nowhere is an extension to RUL described. When referring to multicast, I assume you mean link broadcast? 6LN and 6LR need not be written out. In section 4.2.2 there is a reference to RUL, but specification is deferred to 5.1 Section 4.3,line 3, I expect that 6LN should be replaced by RUL. Al 3: S /across the LLN/between RUL and Root/ Section 5, page 11, s /obtain routing services/obtain RPL services/ (2x) s /Router/6LR/ page 12, first phrase: This a double negation, and impossible to understand. Page 12 al 2: S /A RUL that ………………services./ A RUL MUST register to at least one or all the 6LRs from which it desires RPL services. Al 4, S /The RUL needs to/The RUL MUST/ Section 5.2 s/must be able to decapsulate/MUST decapsulate/ Suppress ‘Unless it is aware ….by [RFC8504]’; (How will the root be aware? Not this year anyway.) Page 13, s/leaves that are not aware of RPL/RULs/ Remove ‘outside the RPL domain eg.’ 2nd al. s/on behalf …. functionality in/for any RUL. Section 7 s/RAN/6LR/ Section 9.1 s/6LN/RUL/ Page 19 every where s/6LN/RUL/ In fig 6 and 7 s/’6LN/RUL’/RUL; (having defined that a RUL is a 6LN) Page 21, Section 9.2.1 title: Perspective of the RUL First phrase: This specification specifies the RUL operation that is conform to the 6LN operation. s/6LN/RUL/ on page 21, 22, 23 , 25, 26 everywhere page 22 point 4 remove ‘a 6LN acting as’ page 27 s/6LN/RUL/ what does ‘maintain the binding’ mean? Page 28 section 10. I don’t understand al 2 ‘The RPL support …..listener 6LN’ Page 18 s/6LN/RUL/ Figure 10,11 6LN/RUL ->RUL Section 11 Shorter Suggestion: Only RPL aware nodes can effectuate a RPL based attack in the network. Consequently, nodes that are not part of the DODAG can only attack the RPL network when they are RULs. Page 31,32 s/6LN/RUL/ and s/rogue/rogue RUL/ From nobody Tue Dec 8 09:09:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27ADF3A1042; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:09:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.835 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.835 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZL8UvJGKGDGL; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:09:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (minerva.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2a01:7e00::3d:b000]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A1A23A103F; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (cpef81d0f835a73-cmf81d0f835a70.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [174.116.10.168]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FD851F45A; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 17:09:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 5C9D71A02C8; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 12:09:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from dooku (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C1201A00A5; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 12:09:01 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Peter Van der Stok cc: iot-directorate@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves.all@ietf.org In-reply-to: <160743972812.4353.2327485830954240210@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160743972812.4353.2327485830954240210@ietfa.amsl.com> Comments: In-reply-to Peter Van der Stok via Datatracker message dated "Tue, 08 Dec 2020 07:02:08 -0800." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <915372.1607447341.1@dooku> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 12:09:01 -0500 Message-ID: <915373.1607447341@dooku> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-23 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 17:09:14 -0000 Thank you Peter, we'll try to get your suggestions in during AUTH48. 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open Questions on P-DAO X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 08:03:20 -0000 Hello Huimin=20 Documenting the 3 cases (and giving names) looks like a good idea, Huimin. = That helps explain what an implementation supports and what it does not.=20 I want to ensure that the group understand what can be done, and then we'll= provide examples of how that is done. This is what I started with the case= s. I did not get much feedback. Should I assume that the group agrees the exam= ples work? Pascal=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Roll On Behalf Of Huimin She (hushe) > Sent: mercredi 9 d=E9cembre 2020 07:19 > To: roll@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Ques= tions > on P-DAO >=20 > Hi Pascal, >=20 > Non-storing P-DAO is a very good complement for non-storing RPL. > One of the practical use case is to find the P2P path via the common ance= stor in > non-storing mode RPL. >=20 > For non-storing P-DAO, I think it's fine to live with Tracks without segm= ents. >=20 > For the P-DAO draft, is it more reasonable to list three cases: non-stori= ng, > storing, and mixing? >=20 > Best regards, > Huimin >=20 > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 07:29:37 +0000 > From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open > Questions on P-DAO > Message-ID: >=20 > 81.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> >=20 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" >=20 > Hello Li: >=20 > > Yes. There is no segment in non-storing mode anymore... It seems th= at we > either back to egress as root or accept this shortage? >=20 > I have been bouncing between the 2. You can see that in the diffs in = the > 6TiSCH architecture. I did again when you suggested the change back to th= e > ingress is root. We need to settle. The change was a lot of work > (https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-15.= txt). The > reason why I accepted the change is that the RH reload that II explained = at IETF > 109 is far from accepted at 6MAN, and the history we have there with RH > insertion does not leave much hope anyway. Which leaves us with: >=20 > a) Tracks are non-storing paths expressed in strict or loose source = route. > Simple implementations only do strict > b) Segments are storing mode paths, that stitch loose SRH paths. This= applies > to the main DODAG and to Tracks. That's the normal segment routing case 1= .3 > below. >=20 > What is also possible but more complex: > c) A path can be established by stitching segments without declaring = a Track > (that's case 1.1 below). The Track is implicit. > d) Instead of declaring a storing mode segment between 2 loose SRH ho= ps, the > path can be another Track in which case we need to encapsulate between th= e > loose hops. That's the non-storing segment routing case 2.3 below. >=20 > And then there can be tunneling of traffic beyond the egress, e.g., i= f the egress > is a station with multiple devices in it. >=20 > > Btw, I think mixed storing PDAO /non-storing PDAO/Stitched Segments= is > complex and maybe little bit hard to use in runtime deployment. >=20 >=20 > An implementation will not need to support all possible combinations.= It is > really a matter of what the industry standard -the like of Thread or Wi-S= un- that > would use RPL P DAO needs. You see it today, most implementations of RPL = do > not support both storing and non-storing modes. But we have a consistent = RPL > RFC which can do both with most things in common. >=20 > This is something we also observe with RFC 6282. The RFC has to propo= se all > possibilities in a consistent fashion with a clear architecture that enco= mpasses all > cases. But you find that open source implementations, Thread or Wi-Sun di= d not > necessarily support the same cases, and would not necessarily interoperat= e. > Since those implementations face one another, that is not an issue. >=20 > When an industry standard moves to P-DAO, it may support, say, only s= trict > non-storing mode P-DAOs, if the problem is P2P/automation. It may create = only > one, or it may create more than one P2P path from ingress to egress. It m= ay > enable tunneling or not. >=20 > Another standard may only care to shorten the SRH in the main DODAG, = in > which case it will not need the sibling information and the tracks, but j= ust the > storing mode P-DAO in the main DODAG. Just like today we have storing mo= de > only and non-storing mode only implementations. This is the original use = of > mixed P-DAO segments with loose SRH path. This use case makes a lot of se= nse > and is the reason why the group originally adopted the draft. >=20 > Because it proposes a consistent model, the draft allows a combinatio= n of > tracks and segments. In that case, the SRH that defines a Track is loose,= and > storing mode segments join the dots, like they do in the main DODAG. I ag= ree > with you, that can be complex in current use cases. So I do not expect in= dustry > standards to pick it up day 1. But should we add text to say do not do it= ? >=20 > It would be a lot worse if there were 10 RFCs that operate differentl= y with no > consistency and overall architecture! >=20 > > The original requirement I want to get from pdao-draft is finding a= n > available p2p path from PCE with lowest cost. Which means easy to get rou= te > entry from PCE and easy to maintain in node. >=20 > > Because either rpl local instance or aodv-p2p mechanism will levera= ge more > DIO/DAO/NS messages to maintain the route path. >=20 > Yes, maybe you can live with non-storing strict SRH for that use case= . Do you > also need to compress the SRH in the main DODAG? I would suspect so. >=20 > Keep safe; >=20 > Pascal >=20 > From: Roll On Behalf Of Li Zhao (liz3) > Sent: mardi 8 d?cembre 2020 02:07 > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open > Questions on P-DAO >=20 > Hello Pascal, >=20 > Yes. There is no segment in non-storing mode anymore... It seems that= we > either back to egress as root or accept this shortage? >=20 >=20 >=20 > More comments line... >=20 > Btw, I think mixed storing PDAO /non-storing PDAO/Stitched Segments i= s > complex and maybe little bit hard to use in runtime deployment. > The original requirement I want to get from pdao-draft is finding an = available > p2p path from PCE with lowest cost. Which means easy to get route entry f= rom > PCE and easy to maintain in node. > Because either rpl local instance or aodv-p2p mechanism will leverage= more > DIO/DAO/NS messages to maintain the route path. >=20 >=20 > Best regards, > Li >=20 >=20 > From: Roll > > Date: Friday, November 27, 2020 at 19:52 > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > > > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open > Questions on P-DAO > Dear all >=20 > with me> >=20 > On this thread we decided to change the Root from being the Track egr= ess to > being the ingress. That is cool for many reasons, but as i said that kill= s the > possibility to "reload" the routing header in a multi-segment Track where= the > segments are expressed as non-storing P-DAOs. Why? >=20 > The operation I presented at IETF 109 involves changing the packet so= urce at > the segment stitching point and still recognize the packet as being part = of a > Track. The change above makes the packet source is the Root of the Track,= so > the packet source now identifies the Track (together with the RPI). Non-s= toring > P-DAOs require to add a routing header. If header insertion was allowed t= hen > that would not be an issue. >=20 > But to add a RH cleanly at the segments stitching point, the connecti= ng router > needs to decapsulate the previous segment and encapsulate the next segmen= t > with the RH. The connecting router becomes the source, thus the root. Mea= ning > that the segment is in fact a Track in its own right as opposed to a segm= ent of the > complex Track. >=20 > Another way to say that there is no segment in non-storing mode anymo= re. > There are only Tracks that can be further assembled into more complex gra= phs. > That is, unless as I said we allow RH insertion despite the disputes we o= bserve on > the same subject at 6MAN about Segment Routing. Or the TrackID is taken f= rom > the Global Instance IDs name space. At the moment I'm ignoring those opti= ons > which lead to either political issues or technical limitations. >=20 >=20 > A complex Track can still be expressed as a collection of loose sourc= e routing > paths from a same Ingress =3D=3D Root. >=20 > Think of it as a Segment Routing Policy for those familiar with SR. T= he > difference is that in SR the loose hops are ECMP path served by the IGP. >=20 > Here we'll need either non-storing Tracks or storing mode segments, t= he > difference being that the storing mode segments do not required re- > encapsulation. Note that in either case, there can be multiple NECMP > possibilities. >=20 >=20 > An example maybe? >=20 >=20 > Say we have >=20 > ------ F > A------B------C------D------E < > ------ G >=20 >=20 > A is Track ingress, E is track Egress. C is stitching point. F and G = are E's > neighbors, "external" to the Track, and reachable from A over the Track A= ->E. > In a general manner we want: >=20 > * PDAO 1 signals A->B->C > * PDAO 2 signals C->B->E > * PDAO 3 signals F and G via the A->E Track >=20 > PDAO 3 being loose, it can only be non-storing. Note that since the R= oot is > always the ingress of a Track, and all SR-VIOs are now Track, the Root be= ing > signaled in the DAO base object can now be elided in the VIA list in SR-V= IO. This > enables the construction by the main root of the RFC 8138 optimized SRH- > 6LoRH in the SR-VIO, to be placed as is in the packet by the Root. >=20 >=20 > 1) Storing mode Segments > -------------------------------- >=20 > A->B->C and C->D->E are segments of a same Track. > Note that the storing mode signaling imposes strict continuity in a s= egment. > This may also avoid weird loops. >=20 > Case 1.1) Stitched Segments >=20 >=20 > 1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C,= D, E, Track ID > 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E, F, G > 2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO = =3D A, B, C, Track > ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E, F, G >=20 > E recognizes that it is egress because it is a Target and a segment e= ndpoint. >=20 > Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destination =3D E | F | G, = and RPI =3D 129. > >From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C. > >From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E. >=20 >=20 > Case 1.2) External routes >=20 >=20 > 1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C,= D, E, Track ID > 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E > 2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to C. It has Root =3D A, VIO = =3D A, B, C, Track > ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E > 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, S= RVIO =3D E, > Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D F, G >=20 > >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G as below; > Packets along the Track have source=3D A, destination =3D E, and RPI = =3D 129. > >From PDAO 2: A forwards to B and B forwards to C. > >From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E. > E decapsulates if encapsulated packet. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Case 1.3) Segment Routing >=20 >=20 > 1. storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to E. It has Root =3D A, VIO =3D C,= D, E, Track ID > 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E > 2. storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to B. It has Root =3D A, VIO = =3D A, B, Track > ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D B, C > 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, S= RVIO =3D C, E, > Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D F, G >=20 >=20 > >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G as below; > Packets from A have source=3D A, destination =3D C, SRH =3D E, and RP= I =3D 129. > >From PDAO 2: A forwards to B. > B forwards to C based on a sibling connected route; C consumes the RH= and > makes the destination E. > >From PDAO 1: C forwards to D and D forwards to E. > E decapsulates if encapsulated packet. >=20 >=20 >=20 > 2) Non Storing mode joining Tracks > --------------------------------------------- >=20 > A->B->C and C->D->E are Tracks expressed as non-storing P-DAOs. >=20 > Case 2.1 Stitched Tracks >=20 >=20 > 1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO = =3D D, E, Track ID > 131 from C's namespace, Target =3D E, F, G > 2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, V= IO =3D B, C, > Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E, F, G >=20 > >From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D E | F | G. The ou= ter > header has source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH =3D C and RPI =3D 129. > Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination =3D C , SRH =3D,= and RPI =3D > 129. C decapsulates. > >From PDAO 1: C encapsulates packets with dest =3D E | F | G. The o= uter > header has source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI =3D 131. > E decapsulates. >=20 >=20 > Case 2.2 External routes >=20 >=20 > 1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO = =3D D, E, Track ID > 131 from C's namespace, Target =3D E > 2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, V= IO =3D B, C, > Track ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D E > 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, S= RVIO =3D E, > Track ID 141 from A's namespace, Target =3D F, G >=20 >=20 >=20 > >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G. The outer= header > has source =3D A, destination =3D E, and RPI =3D 141. > This may recurse with: > >From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D E. The outer head= er has > source =3D A, destination =3D B, SRH =3D C and RPI =3D 129. > Packets forwarded by B have source=3D A, destination =3D C , SRH =3D,= and RPI =3D > 129. C decapsulates. > >From PDAO 1: C encapsulates packets with dest =3D E. The outer hea= der has > source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI =3D 131. > E decapsulates if encapsulated. >=20 >=20 > Case 2.3 Segment Routing >=20 >=20 > 1. non storing mode PDAO 1 is sent to C. It has Root =3D C, VIO = =3D D, E, Track ID > 131 from C's namespace, Target =3D E > 2. non storing mode PDAO 2 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, V= IO =3D B, Track > ID 129 from A's namespace, Target =3D C, E > 3. non storing mode PDAO 3 is then sent to A. It has Root =3D A, S= RVIO =3D C, E, > Track ID 141 from A's namespace, Target =3D F, G >=20 >=20 > >From PDAO 3: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D F | G. The outer= header > has source =3D A, destination =3D C, SRH =3D E, and RPI =3D 141. > This may recurse with: > >From PDAO 2: A encapsulates packets with dest =3D C | E . The outer= header > has source =3D A, destination =3D B, and RPI =3D 129. > B decapsulates forwards to C based on a sibling connected route; C co= nsumes > the RH and makes the destination E. > >From PDAO 1: C encapsulates packets with dest =3D E. The outer hea= der has > source=3D C, destination =3D D, SRH =3D E and RPI =3D 131. > E decapsulates, twice for dest =3D F | G. >=20 >=20 > Does that work so far? >=20 > Keep safe >=20 > Pascal >=20 >=20 > From: Roll > On B= ehalf > Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert) > Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020 11:47 > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > > > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open > Questions on P-DAO >=20 > Hello Li >=20 > In the packet, there's a bit in the RPI to say if the root is the sou= rce or the > destination. That's RFC 6550. > I guess the discussion is related to the PDR and P-DAO, not data pack= et, > though it impacts the ICMP error reporting. >=20 > In a packet along the P-Route, the idea was so far that the DODAG is = a > convergecast to the destination so the destination is the root. If we say= that > there's a single ingress and a single egress then the dodag is reversible= and either > can be the root. If we want to support multicast tracks in the future, th= en the > ingress should be root. >=20 > If the Track has a single ingress and a single egress, then the DODAG= is > reversible into another DODAG and it does not matter which is root, so we= can > make it bidir as Huimin asked. > The storing mode P DAO would look a lot more like a DAO, as you point= ed > out, if it goes towards the root. If we want to take that path, a node co= uld learn > both directions with a single storing mode P DAO. To be continued... >=20 > For non-storing, making bidir is really hard. It seems easier to inst= all a Track in > both directions and couple them. >=20 > As a summary of the proposed changes: >=20 > General > - we make the root the ingress > - ICMP errors sent to the Root, using the main DODAG if the track is = not > reversible >=20 >=20 > Storing mode P DAO: > - we also make the root the ingress, P-DAO from egress to ingress are= now > more similar to RPL DAO operation > - the track could be made bi-directional, but that's more code; if so= : > - the packet forwarding leverages the RPI to indicate the direction= , from or to > root > - ICMP errors sent to the Root, could be source or destination. >=20 > Non storing mode P DAO: > - tracks remain directional, can be coupled, how is tbd > - the RPI is mostly useless since the intermediate nodes do not know = the > instance (they see neither the DIO nor the P-DAO); they have no idea of t= heir > Rank. Still, it is interesting to have is for error determination in an I= CPMP error at > eth root. It is also interesting if the SRH forwarding nodes have a state= associated > to the Track, e.g., reserved time slots or priority queues. > - the RPI is still a SHOULD when there's no compression and a MUST wh= en > there is. We need to clarify what to do, that's another of Huimin's quest= ions, > taken separately. > - ICMP errors forwarding packets are sent to the root which is now th= e > ingress, aka the source of the packet, and the encapsulator field if the = packet is > encapsulated and compressed. This is common to any non-storing operation, > whether it is a main Instance, local Instance, or Track. The RPI therein = is useful to > indicate the Track in Error. So for that matter the forwarder does not ne= ed to > make a difference Track vs. other form of RPL local instance. > - this impacts the discussion in SRH reloading we had at IETF 109, wh= en a N-S > mode loose track is forwarded along a segment that is also NS mode. We'll > probably need to re-encapsulate now. In case of re-encapsulation, the re= - > encapsulator becomes source and root of the segment, which now has to be > considered as a serial Track; as tunnel headends do, it will have to deca= psulate > the tunneled packet to send the packet in error back to the ingress of th= e loose > track >=20 >=20 > Doe that work? >=20 > Pascal >=20 > From: Roll > On B= ehalf > Of Li Zhao (liz3) > Sent: jeudi 26 novembre 2020 03:45 > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > > > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open > Questions on P-DAO >=20 > Hello Pascal, >=20 > If either source or destination can be root, it's better to identify = when or in > which case source or destination can be root. Otherwise, it's hard to int= erop > between different implement even though they both follow RFC standard. >=20 > E.g. for non-storing mode PDAO, if source is root, PCE only responses= PDR- > ACK after receiving PDR from source. > But if destination is root, PCE should also notify destination which = trackid is > used. Maybe we need bring new message for this notification? >=20 >=20 > Take care, > Li >=20 > From: Roll > > Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 21:54 > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > > > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open > Questions on P-DAO > Hello Li; >=20 > Well noted. This was the original intent. The change was made to egre= ss > because the idea was that the track could enable multiple sources to reac= h the > egress, like a tree rooted at the egress that flows traverse going down. = But the > idea of a bidirectional track kinda blocks that idea and the other issues= like the > one you point out seem to get us back to the original view. I recently ma= de the > change from ingress to egress in the 6TiSCH architecture, waiting in RFC = editor > queue. I could reverse back, or maybe say "either source or destination" = so it > can be egress or egress and we are covered for bidirectional. > What do you think? > Or should a reversable Track be really a pair of tracks? >=20 > Keep safe; >=20 > Pascal >=20 > From: Roll > On B= ehalf > Of Li Zhao (liz3) > Sent: mercredi 25 novembre 2020 05:57 > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > > > Subject: Re: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open > Questions on P-DAO >=20 > Hello Pascal, >=20 > Ingress as Root looks better because > 1. It is consistent with the way RPL usually works. RPL Local instan= ce, aodv- > rpl, p2p-rpl all use ingress as root. > 2. For non-storing-mode P-DAO, currently ingress sends upward traffi= c to > egress(root) with SR header. But in RPL, only downward traffic carries SR > header. > 3. Only ingress can send PDR makes sense. Behavior of TrackId is sim= ilar as > Local Instance ID. Ingress as root can propose TrackId from its namespace= . >=20 >=20 > And for storing-mode P-DAO, if we make ingress as root and ingress se= nds > PDR, can PCE send P-DAO to egress then egress forwards it towards predece= ssor > to ingress? > Maybe it helps to make P-DAO looks like a DAO message. >=20 >=20 > Best regards, > Li >=20 >=20 > From: Roll > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 21:39 > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > > > Subject: [Roll] Make P-DAO bidirectional [extends] IETF 109 open Ques= tions > on P-DAO > Dear all >=20 > Whether to make the P-DAO bidirectional is an intriguing question. It= could be > done, just like we can send packets DOWN a classical DODAG. > But if we take that path, we reopen the question of who is root and w= hich > direction the P-DAO flies. >=20 > Could we make either the ingress OR the egress root? How does it matt= er? >=20 > At the moment the Root is the egress and the storing-mode P-DAO flies= from > the Track egress to the track ingress, and the track egress is the root. = This is not > the way RPL usually works as the DAO flies towards the root. The reason w= as > that we wanted a single egress for the Track, as we build unicast Track. = If we > wanted to build multicast Tracks the root should logically be the ingress= . And for > bidirectional Tracks it could be either. >=20 > Up to -24 the 6TiSCH Architecture expected the ingress to be root. I = changed > in the latest to map we do here, that it is the egress; maybe a flag in t= he DAO > would indicate which direction the flow, from root, to root, or both? >=20 > Also if we build bidir Tracks in storing mode, the nodes that forward= the DAO > will have to build routes in both directions based on the P-DAO, both tow= ards > egress and ingress; but only the path from which the P-DAO comes has been > validated by the P-DAO itself. Should we send a P-DAO to each end, each s= etting > up one way? >=20 > Please let me know your thoughts >=20 > Pascal >=20 >=20 > From: Roll > On B= ehalf > Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert) > Sent: mardi 24 novembre 2020 14:22 > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > > > Subject: [Roll] IETF 109 open Questions on P-DAO >=20 > Dear all >=20 > The slides for the P-DAO discussion at IETF 109 are available here: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-109-roll-dao-projection/ >=20 > There are a number of open questions that we starting discussing, and= would > need to progress on the list. > Some of them were expressed on the list, e.g., from Huimin She. I'd l= ike to > progress on them all with individual threads. > The questions are: >=20 >=20 > 1. Lifetime Unit: could we use a different unit for P-DAO? > 2. How to differentiate a P-DAO from a normal DAO in a local insta= nce; new > flag? > 3. Make P-DAO bidirectional? > 4. Who sends the PDR? Does it have to be the ingress? If it was eg= ress it > could propose a TrackId from its namespace. Else could the ingress be the= root? > 5. Maintaining the sibling state. Should we have text on using RFC= 8505 > there? > 6. Whether ingress and egress are listed in NPO? Today they are bo= th, > ingress to indicate the packet source in case of encapsulation and for SR= H-6LoRH > compression reference and egress to build the full SRH-6LoRH. Note that t= he > ingress must consume the first entry and use it as source. > 7. Track in Track vs. SR Header reload models, see slides >=20 > Let me open threads to follow up. >=20 > Keep safe >=20 > Pascal >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From nobody Wed Dec 9 03:45:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58ABB3A03F3; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 03:44:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?b?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIcgdmlhIERhdGF0cmFja2Vy?= To: Cc: last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo.all@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160751429328.2054.4913109791429416872@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: =?utf-8?b?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIc=?= Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 03:44:53 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:44:54 -0000 Reviewer: Mališa Vučinić Review result: Ready I have previously reviewed -40 version of this document and in my pass over the diffs between -40 and -42, I did not find new issues. I believe the document is ready. One nit below. Section 4.1.3.: s/Thus, when a node joins to a network will know which value to use./Thus, when a node joins a network, it knows which value to use. From nobody Wed Dec 9 10:40:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A54133A16F1; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 10:40:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <160753925559.10572.7958668507509477604@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 10:40:55 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 18:40:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : Routing for RPL Leaves Authors : Pascal Thubert Michael C. Richardson Filename : draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24.txt Pages : 39 Date : 2020-12-09 Abstract: This specification updates RFC6550, RFC6775, and RFC8505, to provide routing services to RPL Unaware Leaves that implement 6LoWPAN ND and the extensions therein. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Dec 9 10:43:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03433A10DA; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 10:43:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=LU8J8LWh; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=kwXbe/A2 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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IHRoaW5nIEkgZGlkIG5vdCBhY3QgdXBvbiBpcyB0aGUgY2hhbmdlIDZMTi0+UlVMLiBUaGUgY29u c2Npb3VzIGJlaGF2aW9yIGJ5IHRoZSBub2RlIGlzIHRoYXQgb2YgYSA2TE4sIG5vdCB0aGF0IG9m IGEgUlVMOyB3ZSBmb3VuZCBpdCBsb2dpY2FsIHRvIHByZXNlbnQgdGhlIFJVTCBhcyBhIDZMTiBp biB0aGUgc2VjdGlvbnMgd2hlcmUgaXQgdXNlcyA2TG9XUEFOIE5ELiBUaHVzIHRoZSB0ZXh0IGFz IGl0IHN0YW5kcy4NCg0KQWdhaW4sIG1hbnkgdGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIHJldmlldyENCg0KUGxl YXNlIGxldCBtZSBrbm93IGlmIHdlIGFyZSBnb29kLCBhbmQga2VlcCBzYWZlOw0KDQpQYXNjYWwN Cg0K From nobody Thu Dec 10 00:03:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB5A3A09F6; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 00:03:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.116 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.116 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, 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RULES_HIT:41:72:152:327:355:379:582:599:962:967:968:969:973:982:983:988:989:1152:1189:1208:1212:1221:1260:1313:1314:1345:1359:1431:1436:1437:1516:1517:1518:1575:1588:1589:1592:1594:1605:1616:1730:1776:1792:2068:2069:2194:2198:2199:2200:2525:2553:2566:2682:2685:2689:2692:2693:2740:2827:2859:2897:2902:2911:2933:2937:2939:2942:2945:2947:2951:2954:3022:3138:3139:3140:3141:3142:3622:3865:3866:3867:3868:3870:3871:3872:3873:3874:3934:3936:3938:3941:3944:3947:3950:3953:3956:3959:4250:4321:4425:4860:5007:6119:6248:6261:6298:6657:6659:6678:7903:7904:7974:8603:8700:9025:9036:9040:9108:10004:10394:10848:11232:11657:11658:11783:11914:12043:12109:12114:12219:12291:12295:12438:12663:12683:12740:12895:13139:13160:13161:13229:13972:14096:14149:21060:21063:21080:21212:21324:21325:21433:21450:21451:21625:21740:21789:21790:21939:30003:30054:30070:30074:30076:30083:30090, 0, RBL:none, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, X-HE-Tag: north54_4104541273f6 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 29227 Received: from mail.bbhmail.nl (imap-ext [216.40.42.5]) (Authenticated sender: webmail@stokcons@bbhmail.nl) by omf10.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 08:02:55 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_d32f9160b1429a69f61dfe397ba639c1" Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 09:02:54 +0100 From: Peter van der Stok To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" Cc: Peter Van der Stok , iot-directorate@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves.all@ietf.org Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: References: <160743972812.4353.2327485830954240210@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4-rc2 Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl Organization: vanderstok consultancy X-Originating-IP: [5.206.216.229] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-23 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 08:03:01 -0000 --=_d32f9160b1429a69f61dfe397ba639c1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed HI Pascal, My hope is that my comments, in spite of the mistakes, did not add to the confusion. The layout that you received certainly did not help. It was a real struggle to go from word format to txt that comformed to the iotdir review format. (4 tries); But what I saw as final result was different again from what you show..... The text of the draft is certainly simplified at several places. I regret that that the term RUL/6LN is still needed. I found that very confusing; and that triggred my suggestions. The point being that it was unclear when 6LN spec was repeated and when new RUL behavior was specified. Apparently, it is too convoluted to define the RUL such that 6LN is only mentioned in section 2. But the 6LN RUL separation is clearer in the new text. cheerio, all the best, Peter Pascal Thubert (pthubert) schreef op 2020-12-09 19:42: > Dear Peter > > Many thanks for your deep review! > > I submitted the proposed changes as rev 24 so you can investigate what I did in the diffs: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24 > > Let's see below. > >> Reviewer: Peter Van der Stok >> Review result: Ready with Issues >> >> IOT_DIR review of draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-23 Many thanks for this >> document that will certainly help developers of products with very high >> energy constraints. The draft reads rather easily from a linguistic perspective. >> Unfortunately, some terminology is very difficult to understand. Especially >> page 4 needs some improvement. This review mainly suggests a simplified >> terminology; I hope that it helps to reduce the complexity of the draft. >> >> peter van der stok >> __________________________________________________________________ >> ____________ >> Another introduction of terms is suggested for page 4 like: >> Replace the first three Alineas of page 4 with: > >> Useofrplinfo introduces the terms Ripple Aware Leaf and Ripple Unaware >> Leaf. A Ripple Aware Leaf is part of a RPL DODAG. A Ripple Unaware Leaf >> (RUL) is not. A RUL is connected to a 6Lowpan Router (6LR) to send packets >> over the DODAG that the 6LR belongs to. This note specifies how the RUL >> communicates with the 6LR and the connected DODAG. In this specification >> the RUL MUST be a 6lowpan Node (6LN). In contrast, other Ripple Unaware >> Nodes (RUN) are not 6LNs. In the > > Does that really help, Peter? > 1) Your proposal changes the rule to elaborate the acronym on first use. > 2) Injecting route is something that people understand beyond the world of RPL. Adding the DODAG and 6LowPAN terminology makes things even harder to figure, doesn't it? All this comes later. > 3) The definition In https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42#section-2 is purely RPL based and does not imply 6LoWPAN. A RUL could use a non-6LoWPAN method to attach to the LLN, e.g., another IGP. The draft presents one such method that is indeed based on 6LoWPAN ND. > 4) we also debated on whether it is a 6LoWPAN node acting as a RUL or the other way around; we settled for one side and I would not reopen the wound. > > Still I see the need to simplify. What about > " > Section 2 of [USEofRPLinfo] defines the terms RPL Leaf, RPL-Aware- > Leaf (RAL) and RPL-Unaware Leaf (RUL). A RPL Leaf is a Host attached > to one or more RPL router(s); as such, it relies on the RPL router(s) > to forward its traffic across the RPL domain but does not forward > traffic from another node. As opposed to the RAL, the RUL does not > participate to RPL, and relies on its RPL router(s) also to inject > the routes to its IPv6 addresses in the RPL domain. > > ... > > This document specifies how the Router injects the Host routes in the > RPL domain on behalf of the RUL. Section 5 details how the RUL can > leverage 6LoWPAN ND to obtain the routing services from the router. > In that model, the RUL is also a 6LoWPAN Node (6LN) and the RPL-Aware > router is also a 6LoWPAN Router (6LR). Using the 6LoWPAN ND Address > Registration mechanism, the RUL signals that the router must inject a > Host route for the Registered Address. > " > > Note that there's a formatting issue in the notes as I received them, so I'm doing my best; also that I have concerns with many of the proposed changes because they word the operation from a 6LoWPAN standpoint and this is still a ROLL spec. All in all I picked what I could extract from the below. > >> Alinea: 'examples …..and/or metering': s/lightly powered/ severely energy >> constrained/ > > Done > > And add: The connection of the RUL to the DODAG makes use of > >> the NON-Storing Mechanism even when the DODAG is operated in Storing >> mode. The unicast forwarding of a RUL packet from the 6LR onwards is >> described in section >> 4.1 of useofrplinfo. s/ RPL router/6RL/ page 5 s/6LN/RUL/ s/This document >> often uses/This document uses/ page 6. After al 1 add: 6LN can be a RAL or >> RUL. A 6LR is Ripple Aware per definition. Remove 'This document… RPL by >> itself' Page 7, section 3, Introduce the term: The start-6LR is the 6LR that is >> connected to the RUL. Page 7 everywhere, s/routers/6LR/ Section 3, Alinea 3: >> s/the root and the 6LR/the root and the start-6LR/ I don't understand phrase: > > That's actually wrong. Most routers are not 6LRs. They are RPL routers. Only the attachment router that connects the RUL using this spec needs to be a 6LR as well. > >> 'A RUL is an >> example ….Host route' Replace 'so unless .. serves the RUL)' by: If the >> packet from the RUL has no RPI, the 6LR tunnels it to the Root to add an RPI. >> Page 8 s/ inner packet/encapsulated packet/ Remove '[USEofRPLinfo] expects >> ….to a Host.' (Unnecessary phrase, RUL is 6LN) > > And what is the expectation on a 6LN? There's no document like requirements on a 6LN like RFC 8504 is there? > > The purpose of Sections 4.2.1, > >> 4.2.2 and 4.2.3 is very unclear. > > The whole section 4 is a description of the pieces of 6LoWPAN ND that the reader may need. > I added text at the beginning of section 4: > " > > 4. 6LoWPAN Neighbor Discovery > > This section goes through the 6LoWPAN ND mechanisms that are > leveraged in this specification as a non-normative reference to the > reader. The normative text is to be found in [RFC6775], [RFC8505], > and [RFC8928]. > " > >> In my perception, nowhere is an extension to >> RUL described. > > The specification is for the 6LR operation. There is a requirement on how the 6LN uses RFC 8505 as well, but the normative text for the 6LN operation is in RFC 8505. > The explanation is reworded in the intro as: > " > This document specifies how the Router injects the Host routes in the > RPL domain on behalf of the RUL. Section 5 details how the RUL can > leverage 6LoWPAN ND to obtain the routing services from the router. > " > > When referring to multicast, I assume you mean link > >> broadcast? > > Well the text says multicast rightfully but you're correct that behind the seen the L3 multicast because a L1/2 broadcast. > >> 6LN and 6LR need not be written out. > > I do not understand this? > >> In section 4.2.2 there is a >> reference to RUL, but specification is deferred to 5.1 Section 4.3,line 3, I >> expect that 6LN should be replaced by RUL. Al 3: S /across the LLN/between >> RUL and Root/ > > Actually between the 6LR and the root. The intention of the formulation is to emphasize the cost. > > Section 5, page 11, s /obtain routing services/obtain RPL > > Ne. the full sentence is > " > This section describes > the minimal RPL-independent functionality that the RUL needs to > implement to obtain routing services for its addresses. > " > > The whole point is that from the RUL perspective it is not RPL. It is routing. > >> services/ (2x) s /Router/6LR/ page 12, first phrase: > >> This a double negation, and impossible to understand. > > Turned it to an "only if" form. Concerned that other people may find it actually harder. Both versions are correct. > " > The RUL is expected to request routing services from a Router only if that router originates RA messages with a CIO that has the L, P, and E flags all set > " > >> Page 12 al 2: >> S /A RUL that ………………services./ >> A RUL MUST register to at least one or all the 6LRs from which it desires RPL >> services. Al 4, S /The RUL needs to/The RUL MUST/ > > This belongs to RFC 8505 and is there; This doc must not paraphrase normatively. > > Section 5.2 s/must be able > >> to decapsulate/MUST decapsulate/ > > Same; plus that hhere we do not describe the operation but the capability to perform that operation. Text is correct. > > Suppress 'Unless it is aware ….by > >> [RFC8504]'; (How will the root be aware? Not this year anyway.) > > By other means, as said. This includes configuration, or the general standard that encompasses this spec, like a Thread that imposes that all leaves support IP in IP > > Page 13, > >> s/leaves that are not aware of RPL/RULs/ > > That was voluntary, to emphasize the point > > Remove 'outside the RPL domain > >> eg.' 2nd al. s/on behalf …. functionality in/for any RUL. Section 7 s/RAN/6LR/ >> Section 9.1 s/6LN/RUL/ Page 19 every where s/6LN/RUL/ In fig 6 and 7 >> s/'6LN/RUL'/RUL; (having defined that a RUL is a 6LN) Page 21, Section 9.2.1 >> title: Perspective of the RUL First > > Actually you're countermanding a conscious decision. > > The RUL does not know it is a RUL. It knows it is a 6LN. So it is a 6LN Acting as RUL, though probably it does not know. What we describe is what it knows, that is a 6LN behaviour. > >> phrase: This specification specifies the RUL operation that is conform to the >> 6LN operation. s/6LN/RUL/ on page 21, 22, 23 , 25, 26 everywhere page 22 >> point >> 4 remove 'a 6LN acting as' page 27 s/6LN/RUL/ what does 'maintain the >> binding' > > Again, that is something that was discussed and agreed upon in earlier reviews. I'm not saying that your point of view is invalid. But we went for the other option. > >> mean? Page 28 section 10. I don't understand al 2 'The RPL support …..listener > > I reread but cannot find how to clarify moore. This is MLD. > >> 6LN' Page 18 s/6LN/RUL/ Figure 10,11 6LN/RUL ->RUL Section 11 Shorter >> Suggestion: Only RPL aware nodes can effectuate a RPL based attack in the >> network. Consequently, nodes that are not part of the DODAG can only attack >> the RPL network when they are RULs. Page 31,32 s/6LN/RUL/ and >> s/rogue/rogue RUL/ > > Yes I added this all the way back to the intro > > " > A RUL may be unable to participate because it is very energy-constrained, > code-space constrained, or because it would be unsafe to let it inject > routes in RPL. Using 6LoWPAN ND as opposed to RPL as the Host-to-Router > interface limits the surface of the possible attacks by the RUL against the > RPL domain, and can protect RUL for its address ownership. > " > > Many thanks again Peter. > > The main thing I did not act upon is the change 6LN->RUL. The conscious behavior by the node is that of a 6LN, not that of a RUL; we found it logical to present the RUL as a 6LN in the sections where it uses 6LoWPAN ND. Thus the text as it stands. > > Again, many thanks for your review! > > Please let me know if we are good, and keep safe; > > Pascal --=_d32f9160b1429a69f61dfe397ba639c1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 HI Pascal,


My hope is that my comments, in spite of the mi= stakes, did not add to the confusion.
The layout that you received cer= tainly did not help.
It was a real struggle to go from word format to = txt that comformed to the iotdir review format. (4 tries);
But what I = saw as final result was different again from what you show.....

= The text of the draft is certainly simplified at several places.

I regret that that the term RUL/6LN is still needed. I found that very con= fusing; and that triggred my suggestions.
The point being that it was = unclear when 6LN spec was repeated and when new RUL behavior was specified= =2E
Apparently, it is too convoluted to define the RUL such that 6LN i= s only mentioned in section 2.
But the 6LN RUL separation is clearer i= n the new text.

cheerio,
all the best,

Peter



Pascal Thubert (pthubert) schreef op 2020-12-09 19:42= :

= Dear Peter

Many thanks for your deep review!

I submi= tted the proposed changes as rev 24 so you can investigate what I did in th= e diffs:
https://= www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24

Let's see below.

 
Reviewer: Peter Van der Stok
Review result: Ready= with Issues

IOT_DIR review of  draft-ietf-roll-unaware-lea= ves-23 Many thanks for this
document that will certainly help develope= rs of products with very high
energy constraints. The draft reads rath= er easily from a linguistic perspective.
Unfortunately, some terminolo= gy is very difficult to understand. Especially
page 4 needs some impro= vement. This review mainly suggests a simplified
terminology; I hope t= hat it helps to reduce the complexity of the draft.

peter van de= r stok
_______________________________________________________________= ___
____________
Another introduction of terms is suggested for p= age 4  like:
Replace the first three Alineas of page 4 with:
Useofrplinfo introduces the terms Ripple Aware Leaf an= d Ripple Unaware
Leaf.  A Ripple Aware Leaf is part of a RPL DODA= G. A Ripple Unaware Leaf
(RUL) is not. A RUL is connected to a 6Lowpan= Router (6LR) to send packets
over the DODAG that the 6LR belongs to= =2E This note specifies how the RUL
communicates with the 6LR and the = connected DODAG. In this specification
the RUL MUST be a 6lowpan Node = (6LN). In contrast, other Ripple Unaware
Nodes (RUN) are not 6LNs. In = the

Does that really help, Peter?
1) Your proposal changes the rule= to elaborate the acronym on first use.
2) Injecting route is somethin= g that people understand beyond the world of RPL. Adding the DODAG and 6Low= PAN terminology makes things even harder to figure, doesn't it? All this co= mes later.
3) The definition In https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42#= section-2 is purely RPL based and does not imply 6LoWPAN. A RUL could u= se a non-6LoWPAN method to attach to the LLN, e.g., another IGP. The draft = presents one such method that is indeed based on 6LoWPAN ND.
4) we als= o debated on whether it is a 6LoWPAN node acting as a RUL or the other way = around; we settled for one side and I would not reopen the wound.

Still I see the need to simplify. What about
"
  &nbs= p;Section 2 of [USEofRPLinfo] defines the terms RPL Leaf, RPL-Aware-
&= nbsp;  Leaf (RAL) and RPL-Unaware Leaf (RUL).  A RPL Leaf is= a Host attached
   to one or more RPL router(s); as su= ch, it relies on the RPL router(s)
   to forward its tr= affic across the RPL domain but does not forward
   tra= ffic from another node.  As opposed to the RAL, the RUL does not
=    participate to RPL, and relies on its RPL router(s) also = to inject
   the routes to its IPv6 addresses in the RP= L domain.

...

   This document specifi= es how the Router injects the Host routes in the
   RPL= domain on behalf of the RUL.  Section 5 details how the RUL can
=    leverage 6LoWPAN ND to obtain the routing services from t= he router.
   In that model, the RUL is also a 6LoWPAN = Node (6LN) and the RPL-Aware
   router is also a 6LoWPA= N Router (6LR).  Using the 6LoWPAN ND Address
   R= egistration mechanism, the RUL signals that the router must inject a
&= nbsp;  Host route for the Registered Address.
"

N= ote that there's a formatting issue in the notes as I received them, so I'm= doing my best; also that I have concerns with many of the proposed changes= because they word the operation from a 6LoWPAN standpoint and this is stil= l a ROLL spec. All in all I picked what I could extract from the below.

Alinea: ‘examples …..and/or metering&rsqu= o;: s/lightly powered/ severely energy
constrained/

Done

And add: The connection of the RUL to the DODAG makes= use of
the NON-Storing Mechanism even when the DODAG is opera= ted in Storing
mode. The unicast forwarding of a RUL packet from the 6= LR onwards is
described in section
4.1 of useofrplinfo. s/ RPL ro= uter/6RL/ page 5 s/6LN/RUL/ s/This document
often uses/This document u= ses/ page 6. After al 1 add: 6LN can be a RAL or
RUL. A 6LR is Ripple = Aware per definition. Remove ‘This document…  RPL by
itself’ Page 7, section 3, Introduce the term: The start-6LR is the = 6LR that is
connected to the RUL. Page 7 everywhere,  s/routers/6= LR/ Section 3, Alinea 3:
s/the root and the 6LR/the root and the start= -6LR/ I don’t understand phrase:

That's actually wrong. Most routers are not 6LRs. They are RPL router= s. Only the attachment router that connects the RUL using this spec needs t= o be a 6LR as well.

‘A RUL is an
example ….Host route&rs= quo; Replace ‘so unless    .. serves the RUL)’ b= y: If the
packet from the RUL has no RPI, the 6LR tunnels it to the Ro= ot to add an RPI.
Page 8 s/ inner packet/encapsulated packet/ Remove &= lsquo;[USEofRPLinfo] expects
….to a Host.’ (Unnecessary p= hrase, RUL is 6LN)

And what is the expectation on a 6LN? There's no document like requir= ements on a 6LN like RFC 8504 is there?

The purpose of Sections = 4.2.1,
4.2.2 and 4.2.3 is very unclear.

The whole section 4 is a description of the pieces of 6LoWPAN ND that= the reader may need.
I added text at the beginning of section 4:
"

4.  6LoWPAN Neighbor Discovery

  &n= bsp;This section goes through the 6LoWPAN ND mechanisms that are
 = ;  leveraged in this specification as a non-normative reference t= o the
   reader.  The normative text is to be foun= d in [RFC6775], [RFC8505],
   and [RFC8928].
"

In my perception, nowhere is an extension to
RUL = described.

The specification is for the 6LR operation. There is a requirement on= how the 6LN uses RFC 8505 as well, but the normative text for the 6LN oper= ation is in RFC 8505.
The explanation is reworded in the intro as:
"
   This document specifies how the Router injects t= he Host routes in the
   RPL domain on behalf of the RU= L.  Section 5 details how the RUL can
   leverage = 6LoWPAN ND to obtain the routing services from the router.
"

 When referring to multicast, I assume you mean link
broadcast?

Well the text says multicast rightfully but you're correct that behin= d the seen the L3 multicast because a L1/2 broadcast.

6LN and 6LR need not be written out.

I do not understand this?


In section 4.2.2 there is a
reference to RUL, but= specification is deferred to 5.1 Section 4.3,line 3, I
expect that 6L= N should be replaced by RUL. Al 3: S /across the LLN/between
RUL and R= oot/

Actually between the 6LR and the root. The intention of the formulati= on is to emphasize the cost.


Section 5, page 11,  s /= obtain routing services/obtain RPL

Ne. the full sentence is
"
This section describes
   the minimal RPL-inde= pendent functionality that the RUL needs to
   implemen= t to obtain routing services for its addresses.
"

The whole= point is that from the RUL perspective it is not RPL. It is routing.
=
services/ (2x) s /Router/6LR/ page 12, first phrase:


This a double negation, and impossible to understand= =2E

Turned it to an "only if" form. Concerned that other people may find = it actually harder. Both versions are correct.
"
  &nbs= p;The RUL is expected to request routing services from a Router only if tha= t router originates RA messages with a CIO that has the L, P, and E flags a= ll set
"
Page 12 al 2:
S /A RUL that ……&hell= ip;………services./
A RUL MUST register to at least = one or all the 6LRs from which it desires RPL
services. Al 4, S /The R= UL needs to/The RUL MUST/

This belongs to RFC 8505 and is there; This doc must not paraphrase n= ormatively.

Section 5.2 s/must be able
to decapsulate/MUST decapsulate/

Same; plus that hhere we do not describe the operation but the capabi= lity to perform that operation. Text is correct.

 Suppress = ‘Unless it is aware ….by
[RFC8504]’; (How will the root be aware? Not thi= s year anyway.)

By other means, as said. This includes configuration, or the general = standard that encompasses this spec, like a Thread that imposes that all le= aves support IP in IP

Page 13,
s/leaves that are not aware of RPL/RULs/

That was voluntary, to emphasize the point


 Rem= ove ‘outside the RPL domain
eg.’ 2nd al. s/on behalf …. functionality= in/for any RUL. Section 7 s/RAN/6LR/
Section 9.1 s/6LN/RUL/ Page 19 e= very where s/6LN/RUL/ In fig 6 and 7
s/’6LN/RUL’/RUL; (hav= ing defined that a RUL is a 6LN) Page 21, Section 9.2.1
title: Perspec= tive of the RUL First

Actually you're countermanding a conscious decision.

The = RUL does not know it is a RUL. It knows it is a 6LN. So it is a 6LN Acting = as RUL, though probably it does not know. What we describe is what it knows= , that is a 6LN behaviour.


phrase: This specification specifies the RUL operation= that is conform to the
6LN operation. s/6LN/RUL/ on page 21, 22, 23 ,= 25, 26 everywhere page 22
point
4 remove ‘a 6LN acting as&= rsquo; page 27 s/6LN/RUL/ what does ‘maintain the
binding’=

Again, that is something that was discussed and agreed upon in earlie= r reviews. I'm not saying that your point of view is invalid. But we went f= or the other option.

mean? Page 28 section 10. I don’t understand al = 2 ‘The RPL support …..listener

I reread but cannot find how to clarify moore. This is MLD.

6LN’ Page 18 s/6LN/RUL/ Figure 10,11 6LN/RUL -&g= t;RUL Section 11 Shorter
Suggestion: Only RPL aware nodes can effectua= te a RPL based attack in the
network. Consequently, nodes that are not= part of the DODAG can only attack
the RPL network when they are RULs= =2E Page 31,32 s/6LN/RUL/ and
s/rogue/rogue RUL/

Yes I added this all the way back to the intro

"
&nbs= p;  A RUL may be unable to participate because it is very energy-= constrained,
   code-space constrained, or because it w= ould be unsafe to let it inject
   routes in RPL. Using= 6LoWPAN ND as opposed to RPL as the Host-to-Router
   = interface limits the surface of the possible attacks by the RUL against the=
   RPL domain, and can protect RUL for its address own= ership.
"

Many thanks again Peter.

The main thin= g I did not act upon is the change 6LN->RUL. The conscious behavior by t= he node is that of a 6LN, not that of a RUL; we found it logical to present= the RUL as a 6LN in the sections where it uses 6LoWPAN ND. Thus the text a= s it stands.

Again, many thanks for your review!

Plea= se let me know if we are good, and keep safe;

Pascal

=
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tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EgluDaztyPNC for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 13:24:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B67683A0A4F for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 13:24:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C693898C; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:27:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id r8etPHr6LPvX; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:27:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69BE23898B; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:27:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6507B5D1; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:24:50 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: roll@ietf.org, Alvaro Retana , "Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\)" In-Reply-To: References: <11059.1607633510@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] MOP 7 Reserved/Specification (draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo / draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves / draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:24:56 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm removing the tripe-document CC: , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" , , and just putting the WG back in the discussion. Alvaro Retana wrote: > Yes, I know, the IESG is a pain. As Pascal said, the reasoning can be > counterintuitive -- it took me a while to get it, and now I agree that > it is not complex. Martin also got it. > Individual explanations don't scale and don't prevent others from > asking the same question. Pre-emptive notes matter only if considered > in context and if they are top of mind. A permanent record is what I > think is better. What I'm hearing here is that we need to move MOP=3D7 Reserved into a docum= ent of it's own. _Considerations for evolution of RPL_ updating RFC6550. {like RFC7346, which took a mere 12 months to publish after all the details were discussed over dinner at a Vancouver IETF meeting. Forgive my cynicism.} > I'm ok if you want to leave the text as is =E2=80=94 no need to talk = about this > anymore. With any luck, there will be no issues and we can approve t= he > documents before the holidays. Uhm, okay. > If you decide to change something, I have a suggestion for > =C2=A74.1.2/UseofRPLInfo: > Nodes that support this specification may need to operate in > networks where MOP 7 is used. As explained in rfc6550, if the MOP is > not supported, it must only join the network as a leaf. To facilitate > the integration into LLNs using MOP 7, a document that defines > functionality using DODAG Configuration Option Flags MAY specify > required behaviors (see =C2=A74.1.3). That doesn't really say anything to me. I would write somewhere. Where I don't know. =2D--- RFC6550 does not provide a way for a DODAG root node to know what capabilities are ubiqutiously available on an RPL LLN. This lack includes both control plane (RPL) and data plane (RFC8505, RFC813= 8, RFC8931, etc.) capabilities. [capex] is an upcoming effort to deal with in a systematic way. Until such time as [capex] can be finished, major control plane options are expected to be defined in an backwards compatible way, or to be make judicious use of the remaining available MOP values (4, 5 and 6 being still free). A major change in control plane behaviour for which a node does not understand causes the node to join in leaf mode only (RFC6550, section 9.2) The above logic takes care of the control plane, but leaves the data plane options in the dark. For a node to join in leaf mode it still needs to be able to communicate in the data plane. For this reason, [useofrplinfo], [turnon-rfc8138], [unaware-leaves] define *ad-hoc* mechanisms to enable data-plane options. This permits Flag Day-fr= ee incremental deployment of new firmware as explained in [useofrplinfo] secti= on 4.1.3. Because the mechanism are adhoc, and use a very limited resource of flags in the DIO header, there is a desire not to maintain them longer than necessary. Negotiating data-plane options in the DIO header as at best, a hack. Attaching them to the MOP value is also a bit of a hack, but RFC6550 did not give us any other way to do revise the protocol in an incremental m= anner. The WG also wishes to establish that many of these innovations will become mandatory going forward, and so has established that by the time the WG allocates MOP=3D=3D7, that these data plane options will no longer be op= tional. It is likely that MOP=3D=3D7 will be allocated by [mopex] to extend the MOP values, and will include a capability negotiation mechanism at both the data plane and control plane. However, while we can not entirely predict the future, for the data plane options, we know which ones we want permanently on in the future, and so we are declaring them so in each document, based upon the MOP value. Based upon advice from IANA, the WG has marked MOP=3D=3D7 as Reserved, beca= use the WG has specific plans for it. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl/WhqIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WV1fAf/eVoQQH0kqxJjbW4SNMHOZvXcfHf/Ut/DWef4B5o2mI6mfb6fdDQMSn8x VUc72roe5kuprfgXfKpQP1bTPE/r32EP4bJ9k6+DpqZ83vt2Q3NLh9XeXdApAvPF L8MtX1FSdaUamIwWHBNK4ZFNGZAHpTuwtrBzKM9DgzqdMxYF/aRCOhGhKgT946aM uOdon1c8Hp/AmQEpPNb/q1LvDSskZH6+ZsLhGq6iwl9lhU4Dp9EWcPAqf/RA8Nwz aHeH33N9ODIVVqUENlfJK7KaA2N1PcUhFqe9HkYIGd0b6vumx2FhfvS368aAEoAD w0SZsvVVuEREfJtoDLoBVcPxGqamYw== =sCae -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sun Dec 13 15:23:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B54E3A0D3C; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 15:23:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Elwyn Davies via Datatracker To: Cc: roll@ietf.org, draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160790180911.7304.3594336463513549756@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Elwyn Davies Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 15:23:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 23:23:34 -0000 Reviewer: Elwyn Davies Review result: Almost Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24 Reviewer: Elwyn Davies Review Date: 2020-12-13 IETF LC End Date: 2020-12-09 IESG Telechat date: 2020-12-17 Summary: The document is almost ready for publication. As mentioned elsewhere in reviews it is a very dense document requesting updates of several standards and as such it is a difficult read and I would not be totally sure that everything is consistent. However, I did find s9 and s10 to be pretty clear. There are a few minor issues that need resolving IMO. Most are trivial but the connection to EFFICIENT-NPDAO needs fixing - both these documents are in draft and specifying alterations or updates to a document still in draft doesn't seem sensible. Apologies for rather late delivery of this review - it took longer than expected. Major issues: None Minor issues: s6.1, para 2: I found this paragraph difficult to parse. I note also that nowhere in the document is the implementor told to set the F flag to 1 (there is one place in s9.2.2 where it has to be forced to 0). Presumably there should be an instruction somewhere in s9.2.1 that there should be a Target Option with the F flag set. I would suggest alternative text for this para as follows: OLD: The new 'F' flag is set to 1 to indicate that the Target Prefix field contains the IPv6 address of the advertising node, in which case the length of the Target Prefix field is 128 bits regardless of the value of the Prefix Length field. If the 'F' flag is set to 0, the Target Prefix field MUST be aligned to the next byte boundary after the size (expressed in bits) indicated by the Prefix Length field. Padding bits are reserved and set to 0 per section 6.7.7 of [RFC6550]. NEW: The added 'F' flag is set to 1 to indicate that the Target Prefix field contains the IPv6 address of the advertising node and will, accordingly, have the Prefix Length set to 128. The length of the Target Prefix field will be an integral number of octets, TPL, which is the smallest integer such that (TPL * 8) is greater than or equal to Prefix Length. The Target Prefix is left (high bit) justified in the field and any additional bits in the rightmost octet will be filled with padding bits. Padding bits are reserved and set to 0 as specified in section 6.7.7 of [RFC6550]. ENDS s6.2, position of P flag: As a matter of interest why is the flag in position 1 and not position 0 or 4? It might be more helpful in the event of further additional functionality being added to have 3 spare bits together if the position is of no consequence. s6.3, next to last para. s8 and s 12.2: In view of the statement in s6.3: The RPL Root MUST set the 'E' flag to 1 for all rejection and unknown status codes. The status codes in the 1-10 range [RFC8505] are all considered rejections. I think that IANA should be requested to add a column to the EARO status codes registry being modified by s12.2 to add a column that identifies a status code as a rejection or otherwise. Some words in s8 may be appropriate. s7: Given that [EFFICIENT-NPDAO] is still a draft, I think this section should be synchronized with the draft so that we don't end up with one or the other new RFC updating an RFC that doesn't yet exist. s14: Idnits notes that there is a normative reference to RFC 7102 which is informational. I note that this was not mentioned in the Last Call. However RFC 7102 has already had one accepted Downref waiver and the summary of terms is a suitable use case. Nits/editorial comments: General: s/byte/octet/g Abstract: Expand RPL on first use (currently done in s1.) Expand ND. Abstract: Idnits produces a spurious warning about RFC 8505... -- The draft header indicates that this document updates RFC8505, but the abstract doesn't seem to directly say this. It does mention RFC8505 though, so this could be OK. The abstract says This specification updates RFC6550, RFC6775, and RFC8505, which is fine by me. I will report this to the Tools team. s1, s2.2, s2.3: The term defined in [USEofRPLinfo] is RPL-Unaware-Leaf rather than RPL-Unaware Leaf: s/RPL-Unaware Leaf/RPL-Unaware Leaf/ (3 places). Similarly s/RPL-Aware Leaf/RPL-Aware-Leaf/ (1 place) and s/RPL-Aware Node/RPL-Aware-node/ (2 places). s2.3, para 3: > > The term RPL-Aware Node (RAN) is introduced to refer to a node that is either an RAL or a RPL Router. This term is already defined in [USEofRPLinfo] with, I understand, the same meaning. s3, para 1: s/detailed/summarized/ - the formal details are in [USEofRPLinfo]. s3, para 3: Add MOP to glossary. s3. para 4: s/to transport a RPL Packet Information (RPI) [RFC6550]./to transport the RPL Packet Information (RPI) [RFC6550]option./ s3, para 4: '... except for the very special case above,' - I am not totally sure what part of the section is being referred to by this. Do you mean the case referred to in the previous sentence? Please make this clearer. s3, para 5: The jargon term 'going down' is used here without definition. It is sort of inherited from [USEofRPLinfo] (Section 8.3.1) but is not properly defined there either. Please improve and explain this jargon. s3, para 5: Might be sensible to add SRH to the glossary instead of expanding here. s3, last para: s/forwarding/forwarding it/ s4.1, para 3: It would be helpful to add 6LBR to the glossary. s4.2.2: s/ (more in Section 5.1)/; this requirement is fully explained in Section 5.1/ s4.2.3. title: Suggest expanding the acronym. s4.2.3, para 2: s/The use of ROVR field enable/The use of the ROVR field enables/ s4.3, para 1: s/8.2.6/Section 8.2.6/ s4.3, para 1: To avoid any future inconsistency the notional value of RETRANS_TIMER should not be mentioned here: s/a duration longer than the RETRANS_TIMER [RFC4861] of 1 second /a duration longer than the default value of the RetransTimer (RETRANS_TIMER) [RFC4861] / s4.3, para1: I would suggest using the conventional term: s/Turn Around Trip delay/round trip delay/ s4.3, last para: Suggest adding a forward ref to s9.1 for Figure 7. s4.3.1. last para: s/and set the/and sets the/ s4.3.1, last para: s/, more in Section 9.2./; this is fully explained in Section 9.2./ s5, title: s/RPL-Unware Leaf/RPL-Unware-Leaf/ s5, para 1: A document cannot provide anything! s/This document provides RPL routing for a RUL./This document describes how RPL routing can be extended to a RUL./ s5.3, title: Expand HbH - it isn't used anywhere else. s6: s/more in/see/ (5 places) s6.1, Flags specification: s/4 bits/3 bits/ s6.2, title and para 2: s/New Flag/Additional Flag/ (with appropriate capitalization) s6.3, para 2: OLD: This specification enables to carry the 6LoWPAN ND Status values in RPL DAO and DCO messages, NEW: This specification adds a capability to allow the carriage of 6LoWPAN ND Status values in RPL DAO and DCO messages, ENDS s9: A pointer back to s4.3 might be useful regarding the proxy operation. s9.2: By convention, there should be a brief description of the purpose and subsections before starting s9.2.1. The RFC Editor doesn't like empty sections s9.2.1, para after item 6: s/else it MUST leave the Opaque field to zero./otherwise it MUST leave the Opaque field as zero. s9.2., para 4: s/mean/means/ s9.2.2, para after Figure 9: s/that it stops providing/that it is ceasing to provide/; s/that it stops serving/that it is ceasing to serve/ s9.2.3, item 1: This would be a useful point to mention that the Target IPv6 address is marked by the F Flag being 1. s9.2.3, para after item 4: s/Else/Otherwise/ s11, para 3: s/Req5.1 in Appendix/Req-5.1 in Appendix B.5/ From nobody Mon Dec 14 05:46:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6FC3A0D84 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 05:46:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 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X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 15:08:37 -0000 --_000_CO1PR11MB48818A537C3EA3FC85E73C0BD8C70CO1PR11MB4881namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all: We just got this remark in Elwyn's review of the RUL draft: > s1, s2.2, s2.3: The term defined in [USEofRPLinfo] is RPL-Unaware-Leaf ra= ther > than RPL-Unaware Leaf: s/RPL-Unaware Leaf/RPL-Unaware Leaf/ (3 places). > Similarly s/RPL-Aware Leaf/RPL-Aware-Leaf/ (1 place) and s/RPL-Aware > Node/RPL-Aware-node/ (2 places). I wondered, in terms of English which makes more sense? We can fix either draft. I can't understand why useofrplinfo has a '-' betw= een aware and leaf? Keep safe; Pascal --_000_CO1PR11MB48818A537C3EA3FC85E73C0BD8C70CO1PR11MB4881namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all:

 

We just got this remark in Elwyn’s review of the RUL d= raft:

 

> s1, s2.2, s2.3: The term defined in [USEofRPLinfo] i= s RPL-Unaware-Leaf rather

> than RPL-Unaware Leaf: s/RPL-Unaware Leaf/RPL-Unawar= e Leaf/ (3 places).

> Similarly s/RPL-Aware Leaf/RPL-Aware-Leaf/ (1 place)= and s/RPL-Aware

> Node/RPL-Aware-node/ (2 places).

 

I wondered, in terms of English which makes more sense?

 

We can fix either draft. I ca= n’t understand why useofrplinfo has a ‘–‘ between a= ware and leaf?

 

Keep safe;<= /font>

 

Pascal

 

--_000_CO1PR11MB48818A537C3EA3FC85E73C0BD8C70CO1PR11MB4881namp_-- From nobody Mon Dec 14 08:17:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC7B3A1407; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 08:17:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke_via_Datatracker?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, Peter Van der Stok , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, consultancy@vanderstok.org, malisa.vucinic@inria.fr X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke?= Message-ID: <160796263723.20486.13781592636170212238@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 08:17:17 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-ietf?= =?utf-8?q?-roll-useofrplinfo-42=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:17:17 -0000 Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for the work put into this document. It is long but also clear and easy to read. Malisa's IoT directorate review indicates nothing to be addressed (thank you again Malisa !): https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42-iotdir-lc-vucinic-2020-12-09/ The changes since my latest "no objection" ballot appear to be mainly editorial beside a couple of big changes (rightfully causing a new IETF last call). Please find below some non-blocking COMMENT points (but replies would be appreciated), and some nits. I hope that this helps to improve the document, Regards, -éric == COMMENTS == -- Section 2 -- "As an IPv6 node, a RPL Leaf is expected to ignore a consumed Routing Header and as an IPv6 host, it is expected to ignore a Hop-by-Hop header. " Suggest to define what is a "consumed RH". Suggest to be clear about the HbH: some options in HbH can be ignored indeed but by all *nodes*, there is nothing specific for *hosts* (as they are also nodes) per section 4.3 of RFC 8200. "RPL Packet Information (RPI): The abstract information" why is this 'abstract' ? I also find the definition of 'flag day' confusing... can 2 values of RPI Option Types co-exist in the network? -- Section 4.2 -- "When originating new packets, implementations SHOULD have an option to determine which value to originate with, this option is controlled by the DIO option described below." Unsure whether normative language should be used in the above text. Moreover, if the option type is controlled by the DIO option, then there is no more 'option' to determine the value as it is specified. -- Section 7.2.2 -- Should the text also include 'decapsulate from IPv6-in-IPv6" in addition to "When the packet arrives at the RAL the RPI is removed " ? == NITS == Is Ines' affiliation still correct? -- Section 4.1.1 -- Suggest to start a new paragraph from "In the other direction, ..." 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15.20.3654.020; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:35:32 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Elwyn Davies , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "roll@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves.all@ietf.org" , "last-call@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24 Thread-Index: AQHW0acadXEXRmZba0CTmmuPATchT6n2UcXw Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:35:26 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:34:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160790180911.7304.3594336463513549756@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160790180911.7304.3594336463513549756@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dial.pipex.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dial.pipex.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [173.38.220.56] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1e2f0c9b-fda1-4827-469c-08d8a05f0a0f x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR1101MB2126: 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dC4gSXQgaXMgc2V0IHRvIDAgcGVyIHRoZSBwcmV2aW91cyBzZWN0aW9uLiBCdXQgdGhlIFByZWZp eCBMZW5ndGggaXMgMTI4IGluZGljYXRpbmcgYSBob3N0IGFkZHJlc3MgKG5vdCB0aGF0IG9mIHRo ZSBhZHZlcnRpc2VyIHRob3VnaCwgdGh1cyB0aGUgJ0YnIGZsYWcgc2V0IHRvIDApLg0KDQpBZ2Fp biwgYSBncmVhdCBtYW55IHRoYW5rcyBFbHd5biENCg0KUGFzY2FsDQo= From nobody Mon Dec 14 11:47:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA543A191F for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:47:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gIYluNIqHf0Z for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:47:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from saloits.com (saloits.com [63.228.11.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 425B43A1915 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.255.218] (t460-1.saloits.com [192.168.255.218]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by saloits.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 62C29BE0056; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:46:50 -0600 (CST) To: roll@ietf.org References: From: "Timothy J. Salo" Message-ID: <161a2e64-0325-5a22-ce1d-28a58888aaed@saloits.com> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:46:49 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] RPL-Unaware-Leaf or RPL-Unaware Leaf ? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 19:47:22 -0000 On 12/14/2020 9:08 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Dear all: > > We just got this remark in Elwyns review of the RUL draft: > >> s1, s2.2, s2.3: The term defined in [USEofRPLinfo] is RPL-Unaware-Leaf rather > >> than RPL-Unaware Leaf: s/RPL-Unaware Leaf/RPL-Unaware Leaf/ (3 places). > >> Similarly s/RPL-Aware Leaf/RPL-Aware-Leaf/ (1 place) and s/RPL-Aware > >> Node/RPL-Aware-node/ (2 places). > > I wondered, in terms of English which makes more sense? > > We can fix either draft. I cant understand why useofrplinfo has a > between aware and leaf? The rules for hyphens in English include: o Use a hyphen to join two or more words serving as a single adjective before a noun. So, "RPL-Unaware Leaf" would be better than "RPL-Unaware-Leaf". Hyphenating "RPL Unaware Leaf Node" might be, in my opinion, a bit more ambiguous: Do you mean "RPL-Unaware-Leaf Node" or "RPL-Unaware Leaf-Node". Another of the hyphenation rules is: o Use a hyphen to avoid confusion. This might rule might provide some insight into "RPL-Unaware-Leaf Node" or "RPL-Unaware Leaf-Node". In this document, I think that "RPL-Unaware Leaf Node" would be preferred, because that we all understand that "Leaf Node" is a essentially single term. In general, I don't think there should be a hyphen between aware and leaf. -tjs From nobody Mon Dec 14 12:03:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F7E3A1A22 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 12:03:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=Z9ilHegX; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=QmnMro6Z Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HJLGZ725tfte for ; 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Mon, 14 Dec 2020 20:03:44 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] RPL-Unaware-Leaf or RPL-Unaware Leaf ? Thread-Index: AQHW0lH9XpEXX1/BtkewvObEpkbF26n3A8+V Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 20:03:44 +0000 Message-ID: <0CF0DCA8-FCAE-435B-9C23-CC00DE80F42E@cisco.com> References: , <161a2e64-0325-5a22-ce1d-28a58888aaed@saloits.com> In-Reply-To: <161a2e64-0325-5a22-ce1d-28a58888aaed@saloits.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2a01:cb1d:4ec:2200:6102:8476:d167:68ca] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c103c6e8-7d0f-48b8-5722-08d8a06b5ca1 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR1101MB2127: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:949; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: XVHubm+f+x3HzQ2fofzCiPokTxWLEOA8lVVn7i5Cwmaddis/4kb/ttlbN/rnM0F9kjvlmgrQBvTX/Rrmfqt4feCwtQ1QzQbpvJEVqtuiDH2eF2Cvcf63LQd9w/YQ5ei+zHJL5KY3XFUEncj29S6a8gaA0TFR/rXminp1WVCbn2l+Isq4RQU5Y6xuI8OIxOL3ti7SKvmmHgnM6/oky8lfRAcv+9ud66k0Je6PT/Wo8C5mKswOxZ0974Sb89taQtFJsygbZUs+nrA1ZOag7r5J3s3WakN8gUARssbqEH3SdPk0kMXeklQ2leOArX9ouoDOkEZHcwxUlk4oGWq+1rL2qRodoGK9y7dA2pco0VL0JtzJczEiQjcNgCSC+vc5L9IVh0C7pm1LBvrYMRmMWcOKQ6rKI9N49u/1lrLTo+nwTEHbyLEVI9PaLAe+K3mXu41SdBayQy23mtP77mSChxicbQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(346002)(376002)(136003)(366004)(76116006)(71200400001)(6512007)(66946007)(6916009)(5660300002)(91956017)(86362001)(966005)(66446008)(8936002)(83380400001)(64756008)(66476007)(66556008)(508600001)(33656002)(8676002)(2906002)(2616005)(6506007)(6486002)(36756003)(186003)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c103c6e8-7d0f-48b8-5722-08d8a06b5ca1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Dec 2020 20:03:44.7573 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: U1qSMIl5epHuL5ZdJhtdAwsokKH0XRy1xAW9p0YDyj4CXwHjmpIsq31pqF99vTqnKP6gAujUiALXa7g/b+HE4g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR1101MB2127 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.15, xch-rcd-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] RPL-Unaware-Leaf or RPL-Unaware Leaf ? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 20:03:51 -0000 TWFueSB0aGFua3MgVGltb3RoeSENCg0KSW5lcywgZG8gd2UgYWdyZWUgdG8gY2hhbmdlIGJvdGgg ZHJhZnRzIHRvIHNheSBSUEwtKHVuKWF3YXJlIExlYWZ8bm9kZSA/DQoNClBhc2NhbA0KDQo+IExl IDE0IGTDqWMuIDIwMjAgw6AgMjA6NDcsIFRpbW90aHkgSi4gU2FsbyA8c2Fsb0BzYWxvaXRzLmNv bT4gYSDDqWNyaXQgOg0KPiANCj4g77u/T24gMTIvMTQvMjAyMCA5OjA4IEFNLCBQYXNjYWwgVGh1 YmVydCAocHRodWJlcnQpIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gRGVhciBhbGw6DQo+PiBXZSBqdXN0IGdvdCB0aGlz IHJlbWFyayBpbiBFbHd5buKAmXMgcmV2aWV3IG9mIHRoZSBSVUwgZHJhZnQ6DQo+Pj4gczEsIHMy LjIsIHMyLjM6IFRoZSB0ZXJtIGRlZmluZWQgaW4gW1VTRW9mUlBMaW5mb10gaXMgUlBMLVVuYXdh cmUtTGVhZiByYXRoZXINCj4+PiB0aGFuIFJQTC1VbmF3YXJlIExlYWY6IHMvUlBMLVVuYXdhcmUg TGVhZi9SUEwtVW5hd2FyZSBMZWFmLyAoMyBwbGFjZXMpLg0KPj4+IFNpbWlsYXJseSBzL1JQTC1B d2FyZSBMZWFmL1JQTC1Bd2FyZS1MZWFmLyAoMSBwbGFjZSkgYW5kIHMvUlBMLUF3YXJlDQo+Pj4g Tm9kZS9SUEwtQXdhcmUtbm9kZS8gKDIgcGxhY2VzKS4NCj4+IEkgd29uZGVyZWQsIGluIHRlcm1z IG9mIEVuZ2xpc2ggd2hpY2ggbWFrZXMgbW9yZSBzZW5zZT8NCj4+IFdlIGNhbiBmaXggZWl0aGVy IGRyYWZ0LiBJIGNhbuKAmXQgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB3aHkgdXNlb2ZycGxpbmZvIGhhcyBhIOKAmOKA k+KAmCBiZXR3ZWVuIGF3YXJlIGFuZCBsZWFmPw0KPiANCj4gVGhlIHJ1bGVzIGZvciBoeXBoZW5z IGluIEVuZ2xpc2ggaW5jbHVkZToNCj4gDQo+IG8gVXNlIGEgaHlwaGVuIHRvIGpvaW4gdHdvIG9y IG1vcmUgd29yZHMgc2VydmluZyBhcyBhIHNpbmdsZSBhZGplY3RpdmUNCj4gIGJlZm9yZSBhIG5v dW4uDQo+IA0KPiBTbywgIlJQTC1VbmF3YXJlIExlYWYiIHdvdWxkIGJlIGJldHRlciB0aGFuICJS UEwtVW5hd2FyZS1MZWFmIi4NCj4gSHlwaGVuYXRpbmcgIlJQTCBVbmF3YXJlIExlYWYgTm9kZSIg bWlnaHQgYmUsIGluIG15IG9waW5pb24sIGEgYml0IG1vcmUNCj4gYW1iaWd1b3VzOiBEbyB5b3Ug bWVhbiAiUlBMLVVuYXdhcmUtTGVhZiBOb2RlIiBvcg0KPiAiUlBMLVVuYXdhcmUgTGVhZi1Ob2Rl Ii4NCj4gDQo+IEFub3RoZXIgb2YgdGhlIGh5cGhlbmF0aW9uIHJ1bGVzIGlzOg0KPiANCj4gbyBV c2UgYSBoeXBoZW4gdG8gYXZvaWQgY29uZnVzaW9uLg0KPiANCj4gVGhpcyBtaWdodCBydWxlIG1p Z2h0IHByb3ZpZGUgc29tZSBpbnNpZ2h0IGludG8gIlJQTC1VbmF3YXJlLUxlYWYgTm9kZSINCj4g b3IgIlJQTC1VbmF3YXJlIExlYWYtTm9kZSIuICBJbiB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50LCBJIHRoaW5rIHRo YXQNCj4gIlJQTC1VbmF3YXJlIExlYWYgTm9kZSIgd291bGQgYmUgcHJlZmVycmVkLCBiZWNhdXNl IHRoYXQgd2UgYWxsDQo+IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgdGhhdCAiTGVhZiBOb2RlIiBpcyBhIGVzc2VudGlh bGx5IHNpbmdsZSB0ZXJtLg0KPiANCj4gSW4gZ2VuZXJhbCwgSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGVyZSBz aG91bGQgYmUgYSBoeXBoZW4gYmV0d2VlbiBhd2FyZSBhbmQNCj4gbGVhZi4NCj4gDQo+IC10anMN Cj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ IFJvbGwgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IFJvbGxAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9yb2xsDQo= From nobody Mon Dec 14 13:43:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503ED3A1482 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:43:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lY2Yb1UIUjiX for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:43:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFC6C3A147F for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:43:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9249F3898E; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:45:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id ddyu15XWj2iT; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:45:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 228A538988; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:45:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5812A18B; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:43:13 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\)" cc: "roll\@ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: <11059.1607633510@localhost> <21974.1607894690@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] MOP 7 Reserved/Specification (draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo / draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves / draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 21:43:16 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Hello Michael >> That doesn't really say anything to me. >> >> I would write somewhere. Where I don't know. > You just did! We need to mark your words. I flagged your email and pl= an > to use it (be reference) in the next review cycle if questions are > asked again (If that's OK?). Yes, please. But, is this just about email, or does it go into some document, and if so, which one? Perhaps into the place where we Reserve MOP 7, I guess. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl/X3HEACgkQgItw+93Q 3WV+Mwf/ZuR8EQ5k6uMaV2druDEgeHxdm1M3ngn4oAkMZ2pWNfJ2S8GgRRhYSq4w c7ClwJdYMwGVNW18bI8N6e9ZYnxbGU54IjeTr0lzZJqrTmZb1xmdhAQ8nzCWkCeE M2SpgmTPXDMib3LUwJHJQN4LwKsoSp81Ta03P/107tw0USjEA5v23huhEWqW12sO AjMHgfOPnhSSclYQG4BXuxXy7BZ1JfhH5+Itko5JeJeSIhk3H1n0TFuZu0DfnW2O a8VSBN2wirdvmb/xYpLa7kuTb5SFmw528eLgxrUOPme7hm6JWo3ZL9pZI4/Pt9Du BNpsFVjz08bzIeKjICcZheRKcl2yvA== =9+rl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Dec 14 15:02:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A7B3A123C; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 15:02:35 -0800 (PST) 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(envelope-from ) id 1kowVg-0000fy-3N; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 22:40:04 +0000 SavedFromEmail: elwynd@folly.org.uk Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 22:39:55 +0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: normal From: elwynd To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , Elwyn Davies , "gen-art@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves.all@ietf.org" , "roll@ietf.org" , "last-call@ietf.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--_com.samsung.android.email_13048365168962520" Message-ID: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 23:02:36 -0000 ----_com.samsung.android.email_13048365168962520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E719C3A136A for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 17:08:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8RbUhIvmntJE for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 17:08:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E06133A1334 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 17:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABB1438984 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 20:11:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id E_E_57C5het7 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 20:11:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2D038983 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 20:11:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8928665E for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 20:08:34 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: <0CF0DCA8-FCAE-435B-9C23-CC00DE80F42E@cisco.com> References: , <161a2e64-0325-5a22-ce1d-28a58888aaed@saloits.com> <0CF0DCA8-FCAE-435B-9C23-CC00DE80F42E@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] RPL-Unaware-Leaf or RPL-Unaware Leaf ? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 01:08:46 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) wrote: > Ines, do we agree to change both drafts to say RPL-(un)aware Leaf|node > ? >> Another of the hyphenation rules is: >> >> o Use a hyphen to avoid confusion. I prefer this rule, and to leave it as "RPL-unware-leaf" =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl/YDJIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWj5AgAvFmWBrEOvnAEB+Yod1j8PArzhZYwQUZjan7o/7m+eraNNMwRjkTCrGlv DwOIkq5vXmNcgnttORaWtL+W0Quw5g1hfFJD843E1nVtaH0hqku5XQ6zVHyIw964 q+iITeVXhLBNcsC1NE9OhbBVbP9aWwKKgLOUpnthxVGzfgMDW5aqf+nsgVyvYnEY 1JxhMm/a4liVHK5OTYXiPtWNk2z1H2zKp3IfZrSWoCRT3bRi8zjJr45wSbXPYzBW WzLrdXcSghe8tOUtbuYgs8fiWtwwfqOjjEj+1SToUnPZ2dOibQ1V6/aDJVZO4wdM ixqfazrrf/IHhHk20gtusdJ12OQhGw== =lTZA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Dec 14 22:06:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D9653A0A9C for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 22:06:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Tue, 15 Dec 2020 06:06:12 +0000 Received: from CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499:4510:59d6:8f61]) by CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499:4510:59d6:8f61%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3654.020; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 06:06:12 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] RPL-Unaware-Leaf or RPL-Unaware Leaf ? 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X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 06:06:19 -0000 V2hpY2ggY29uZnVzaW9uIGlzIHRoYXQsIE1pY2hhZWwgPw0KDQpUaGlzIGlzIGEgbGVhZiB0aGF0 IGlzIG5vdCBhd2FyZSBvZiBSUEwuDQoNClNvIGl0IGlzIFJQTC1VbmF3YXJlLiBJZiBpdCB3YXMg Ymx1ZSB3b3VsZCB5b3UgY2FsbCBpdCBhIGJsdWUtbGVhZj8NCg0KVGhpcyBpcyBiZXlvbmQgbXkg bGV2ZWwgaW4gRW5nbGlzaCAhDQoNClRha2UgY2FyZSwNCg0KUGFzY2FsDQoNCj4gTGUgMTUgZMOp Yy4gMjAyMCDDoCAwMjowOSwgTWljaGFlbCBSaWNoYXJkc29uIDxtY3IraWV0ZkBzYW5kZWxtYW4u Y2E+IGEgw6ljcml0IDoNCj4gDQo+IO+7vw0KPiBQYXNjYWwgVGh1YmVydCBcKHB0aHViZXJ0XCkg PHB0aHViZXJ0PTQwY2lzY28uY29tQGRtYXJjLmlldGYub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+IEluZXMsIGRv IHdlIGFncmVlIHRvIGNoYW5nZSBib3RoIGRyYWZ0cyB0byBzYXkgUlBMLSh1bilhd2FyZSBMZWFm fG5vZGUNCj4+ID8NCj4gDQo+Pj4gQW5vdGhlciBvZiB0aGUgaHlwaGVuYXRpb24gcnVsZXMgaXM6 DQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gbyBVc2UgYSBoeXBoZW4gdG8gYXZvaWQgY29uZnVzaW9uLg0KPiANCj4gSSBw cmVmZXIgdGhpcyBydWxlLCBhbmQgdG8gbGVhdmUgaXQgYXMgIlJQTC11bndhcmUtbGVhZiINCj4g DQo+IC0tDQo+IE1pY2hhZWwgUmljaGFyZHNvbiA8bWNyK0lFVEZAc2FuZGVsbWFuLmNhPiAgIC4g byBPICggSVB2NiBJw7hUIGNvbnN1bHRpbmcgKQ0KPiAgICAgICAgICAgU2FuZGVsbWFuIFNvZnR3 YXJlIFdvcmtzIEluYywgT3R0YXdhIGFuZCBXb3JsZHdpZGUNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IF9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IFJvbGwgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IFJvbGxAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9yb2xsDQo= From nobody Mon Dec 14 22:58:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816B13A0B16 for ; 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Tue, 15 Dec 2020 06:57:33 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Alvaro Retana , Elwyn Davies CC: "roll@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New column in ND status? 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X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 06:58:54 -0000 Hello Alvaro Elwyn has a suggestion that I wanted to run by you: >> s6.3, next to last para. s8 and s 12.2:=A0 In view of the statement in s= 6.3: >> The RPL Root MUST set the 'E' flag to 1 for all rejection and unknown st= atus >> codes. The status codes in the 1-10 range [RFC8505] are all considered >> rejections. I think that IANA should be requested to add a column to the= EARO >> status codes registry being modified by s12.2 to add a column that ident= ifies a >> status code as a rejection or otherwise.=A0=A0 Some words in s8 may be a= ppropriate. > Well that would require normative text on the 6LoWPAN part. > I guess we can do that at the next iteration of a 6LoWPAN ND specificatio= n. > For now what we specify is that from the RPL perspective the listed codes= denote > a failure such that the RPL operation that wraps it cannot happen and tha= t's enough for us. ED>=A0 While I understand that it would be polite to involve 6LoWPAN, WGs d= on't 'own' RFCs and their associated IANA registries.=A0 Since this draft '= needs' the extra information I personally wouldn't see a problem in asking = for the extra column. It doesn't break anythng 6LoWPAN are doing AFAICS. An= yway that's not my call...=A0 ask your AD. What do you think? 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UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lU4fDeg0YRDc for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 07:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com (mail-ej1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9B303A11D0 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 07:18:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id g20so28240290ejb.1 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 07:18:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=20g6VnK0Ze7dxwGyPaGEFfY/2J5HHWnaw4py3gCnmlw=; 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AOAM530sAcuBTJh1mKvC5+in5JXye1myPGjhiZX0Gv0uyN560rwx1wxh jEnoPekVFkgOQ2GIEY26uqDsVwMC6e2zy2+rOw3eiUoP X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyr0m1aVuUuCNTyvV5mtvdgGRQNXRFH959JbRhxCbQ0YS+fg5+Zwf9MsW2QNbhjBNx3/LNWe4W1t7tMxU9Bjj4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:32d6:: with SMTP id k22mr3267574ejk.457.1608045480308; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 07:18:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 07:17:59 -0800 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 07:17:59 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , Elwyn Davies Cc: "roll@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a2f70c05b682430a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] New column in ND status? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 15:18:06 -0000 --000000000000a2f70c05b682430a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal: Hi! I see Elwyn=E2=80=99s point, and agree that it might be nice to see that in= the registry. However, your point about the description being from the RPL perspective keeps me from thinking that it is a necessary addition. If I remember correctly, not all the status codes may be considered the same way in RPL when compared to ND. Also, there=E2=80=99s no E flag used in ND. I don=E2=80=99t think we should make the extra change to the registry in th= is document. Thanks! Alvaro. On December 15, 2020 at 1:58:50 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) ( pthubert@cisco.com) wrote: Hello Alvaro Elwyn has a suggestion that I wanted to run by you: >> s6.3, next to last para. s8 and s 12.2: In view of the statement in s6.3: >> The RPL Root MUST set the 'E' flag to 1 for all rejection and unknown status >> codes. The status codes in the 1-10 range [RFC8505] are all considered >> rejections. I think that IANA should be requested to add a column to the EARO >> status codes registry being modified by s12.2 to add a column that identifies a >> status code as a rejection or otherwise. Some words in s8 may be appropriate. > Well that would require normative text on the 6LoWPAN part. > I guess we can do that at the next iteration of a 6LoWPAN ND specification. > For now what we specify is that from the RPL perspective the listed codes denote > a failure such that the RPL operation that wraps it cannot happen and that's enough for us. ED> While I understand that it would be polite to involve 6LoWPAN, WGs don't 'own' RFCs and their associated IANA registries. Since this draft 'needs' the extra information I personally wouldn't see a problem in asking for the extra column. It doesn't break anythng 6LoWPAN are doing AFAICS. Anyway that's not my call... ask your AD. What do you think? Pascal --000000000000a2f70c05b682430a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Pascal:

Hi!

I see Elwyn=E2=80=99s point, and agree that it might be nice to see that i= n the registry. =C2=A0

However, your point about the description being from the RPL perspectiv= e keeps me from thinking that it is a necessary addition.=C2=A0 If I rememb= er correctly, not all the status codes may be considered the same way in RP= L when compared to ND.=C2=A0 Also, there=E2=80=99s no E flag used in ND.

I don=E2=80=99t think= we should make the extra change to the registry in this document.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

On December 15, 2020 at 1:58:50 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) (pthubert@cisco.com) wrote:

Hello Alvaro

Elwyn has a suggestion that I wanted to run by you:

>> s6.3, next to last para. s8 and s 12.2:=C2=A0 In view of the s= tatement in s6.3:
>> The RPL Root MUST set the 'E' flag to 1 for all reject= ion and unknown status
>> codes. The status codes in the 1-10 range [RFC8505] are all co= nsidered
>> rejections. I think that IANA should be requested to add a col= umn to the EARO
>> status codes registry being modified by s12.2 to add a column = that identifies a
>> status code as a rejection or otherwise.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Some word= s in s8 may be appropriate.

> Well that would require normative text on the 6LoWPAN part.
> I guess we can do that at the next iteration of a 6LoWPAN ND speci= fication.
> For now what we specify is that from the RPL perspective the liste= d codes denote
> a failure such that the RPL operation that wraps it cannot happen = and that's enough for us.

ED>=C2=A0 While I understand that it would be polite to involve 6LoW= PAN, WGs don't 'own' RFCs and their associated IANA registries.= =C2=A0 Since this draft 'needs' the extra information I personally = wouldn't see a problem in asking for the extra column. It doesn't b= reak anythng 6LoWPAN are doing AFAICS. Anyway that's not my call...=C2= =A0 ask your AD.

What do you think?


Pascal =20

<= /body> --000000000000a2f70c05b682430a-- From nobody Tue Dec 15 08:08:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2193A11FB; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 08:08:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke_via_Datatracker?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, JADHAV Rahul , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, rahul.ietf@gmail.com, consultancy@vanderstok.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke?= Message-ID: <160804848793.10645.17251248823923510582@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 08:08:07 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-ietf?= =?utf-8?q?-roll-unaware-leaves-24=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 16:08:08 -0000 Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for the work put into this document. While the authors spent a lot of time in detailed explanations, I found this document hard to read, perhaps some additional diagrams may have helped (like those in section 9). Big thanks to Peter Van der Stock for his Last Call review at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-23-iotdir-lc-van-der-stok-2020-12-08/ Peter completed his review at the same time as -23 was published, so, authors, please have a look. I appreciate that the shepherd and RTG AD have contacted the 6LO WG for review (even if no comments were received). Please find below some non-blocking COMMENT points (but replies would be appreciated), and some nits. I hope that this helps to improve the document, Regards, -éric == COMMENTS == Be aware of a down-ref: Normative reference to an Informational RFC: RFC 7102 -- Abstract -- Suggest to expand some acronyms in the abstract: RPL, ND. In the same vein, writing that RFC 6550 is RPL could help the reading of the abstract. -- Section 1 -- s\whereas others will only terminate packets\whereas others will only receive/originate packets\ ? -- Section 3 -- "packets going down" could probably be rewritten in a more formal way. The use of "Source Routing Header (SRH)" is commonly linked to RFC 8754 Segment Routing Header... May I suggest to use 'RH' (as the "source" is always implicit in RH). -- Section 6 -- Does the "reserved" word have any value in "encodes it in one of these reserved flags of the RPL DODAG" ? With the publication of this document, it is no more reserved IMHO. -- Section 6.1 -- Should the normative uppercase language be used ? E.g., "length of the Target Prefix field is 128 bits regardless of the value" is not really normative... I also wonder in which case the ROVR length cannot be derived from the Option Length and the Prefix Length (the HbH option length is expressed in octets per RFC 8200). Wasting valuable flags space for a length seems a bold decision to me. The text describing the option is convoluted so I am not sure about my point else I would have balloted a DISCUSS. -- Section 6.3 -- While I appreciate that there are severe constraints and while I admire the authors' imagination, the mix of status codes looks like a chimera to me. Nothing blocking, just a comment of mine, no need to reply. -- Section 9.1 -- Is there a reason why "Extended DAR" and "EDAR" coexist in figure 6 ? Not the first time that "aligned" is used, e.g., in "This flow requires that the lifetimes and sequence counters in 6LoWPAN ND and RPL are aligned." but is this term well defined and well accepted? What is the meaning of "negative" in "an NA message with a negative status " ? Most significant bit to 1 ? -- Section 11 -- Should a rate limit of EDAR/DAO message by the 6LR be recommended ? RFC 4941 could be our enemy here... == NITS == Unsure whether capitalized "Host" and "Router" and "Leaf" are required. The companion document uses "IPv6-in-IPv6" rather than "IP-in-IP" -- Section 5.3 -- Please expand HbH in the section title. -- Section 5.4 -- Suggest to drop " and the packet is dropped otherwise." From nobody Tue Dec 15 10:19:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7973A132C; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 10:19:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <160805639480.9768.8024750419525654478@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 10:19:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-25.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 18:19:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : Routing for RPL Leaves Authors : Pascal Thubert Michael C. Richardson Filename : draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-25.txt Pages : 41 Date : 2020-12-15 Abstract: This specification updates RFC6550, RFC6775, and RFC8505, to provide routing services to IPv6 Nodes that implement RFC6775, RFC8505, and their extensions therein, but do not support RFC6550. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-25.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-25 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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U2VjdGlvbiA1LjQgLS0NCj4gU3VnZ2VzdCB0byBkcm9wICIgYW5kIHRoZSBwYWNrZXQgaXMgZHJv cHBlZCBvdGhlcndpc2UuIg0KDQpEb25lDQoNCkEgZ3JlYXQgbWFueSB0aGFua3MgRXJpYyENCg0K UGxlYXNlIGxldCBtZSBrbm93IGlmIEkgbmVlZCB0byBkbyBtb3JlLg0KDQpUYWtlIGNhcmUgYW5k IGVuam95IHdlbGwtZGVzZXJ2ZWQgdmFjYXRpb25zIDogKQ0KDQpQYXNjYWwNCg0K From nobody Tue Dec 15 11:52:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE0E3A16F5; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:51:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, JADHAV Rahul , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, rahul.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Roman Danyliw Message-ID: <160806191542.14056.12076928149451139392@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:51:55 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-25: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 19:51:55 -0000 Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-25: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for responding to the SECDIR review and thank you to Carl Wallace for performing it ** Section 6.1. ROVRsz value. Indicates the Size of the ROVR. It SHOULD be 1, 2, 3, or 4, indicating a ROVR size of 64, 128, 192, or 256 bits, respectively. If a legacy Target Option is used, then the value must remain 0, as specified in [RFC6550]. -- Why are the values of ROVRsz not constrained with a MUST to 0 – 4? What’s the thinking on allowing undefined ROVR size values? Or not specifying that these values comes from: https://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters/icmpv6-parameters.xhtml#icmpv6-parameters-codes-type-157-code-suffix https://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters/icmpv6-parameters.xhtml#icmpv6-parameters-codes-type-158-code-suffix -- If the values of ROVR are 1 – 4 why are 4 bits required, not 3 (i.e., 100 = 4)? ** Section 11. Additionally, the trust model could include a role validation to ensure that the node that claims to be a 6LBR or a RPL Root is entitled to do so. How does this role validation (verification of entitlement) work? From nobody Tue Dec 15 14:47:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 389A13A0544 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:47:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RBlmlRSkKEpT for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from saloits.com (saloits.com [63.228.11.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3B333A0489 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.255.218] (t460-1.saloits.com [192.168.255.218]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by saloits.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F0404BE0055; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 16:47:32 -0600 (CST) To: roll@ietf.org References: <161a2e64-0325-5a22-ce1d-28a58888aaed@saloits.com> <0CF0DCA8-FCAE-435B-9C23-CC00DE80F42E@cisco.com> <29100.1607994514@localhost> From: "Timothy J. Salo" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 16:47:32 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <29100.1607994514@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] RPL-Unaware-Leaf or RPL-Unaware Leaf ? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 22:47:36 -0000 On 12/14/2020 7:08 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) wrote: > > Ines, do we agree to change both drafts to say RPL-(un)aware Leaf|node > > ? > > >> Another of the hyphenation rules is: > >> > >> o Use a hyphen to avoid confusion. > > I prefer this rule, and to leave it as "RPL-unware-leaf" I assume an editor will catch this and change it to RPL-unaware leaf. In my view, "RPL-unaware leaf" is grammatically correct and unambiguous. -tjs From nobody Tue Dec 15 21:47:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDCF3A0FD7; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 21:46:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Erik Kline via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, Peter Van der Stok , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, consultancy@vanderstok.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Erik Kline Message-ID: <160809761379.22994.11202105892505044046@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 21:46:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Erik Kline's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 05:47:00 -0000 Erik Kline has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [ section 12 ] * Ignoring an invalid RH3 header by the end host (I'm assuming this means that segments left > 0) doesn't specify whether the packet should be processed (ignore the RH) or the whole packet should be ignored. I might recommend instead referring to RFC 6554 S4.2 for how to handle RH3's if the node is also a RPL-aware router and say it MUST drop the packet if segments left is non-zero and it's not a RPL-aware router. Related: I'd also recommend: "It should just be noted that an incoming RH3 must be fully consumed, or very carefully inspected." -> "It should just be noted that an incoming RH3 MUST be fully consumed." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [[ comments ]] [ section 8.1.3 ] * I'm confused by the use of "consumed" here. Is the final RH3 entry RUL's address? I guess you could say RH penultimate hop "consumes" the header because the ultimate destination address is put in the header DA field. Seems a bit odd though. I assume 6LR_n gets RUL's address from the last segment in RH3. "Consumed" means segments left == 0, I guess? I suppose should have picked up on this terminology when it was first used in Section 2. Maybe clarify what it means in that section (2)? [[ questions ]] [ section 4.1.3 ] * To be clear, the DODAG Configuration option flags being updated is the one in 6550 S6.7.6? [ section 9 ] * This the final paragraph strictly true? It seems that in some situations in section 7 full-encapsulated packets can arrived at the RUL with all RPL artifacts removed. Again: in certain situations. [[ nits ]] [ section 1.1 ] * "uses cases" -> "use cases" [ section 4.1.3 ] * "when a node joins to a network will know" -> "when a node joins to a network it will know", I think * "MUST be initialize to zero" -> "MUST be initialized to zero" (Separately: if this is quoting text from 6.7.6, then it's not exactly a direct quote.) [ section 6 ] * "while adding significant in the code" -> "while adding significant in the code", I think [ section 9 ] * "traffic originating from..." -> "Traffic originating from..." [ section 12 ] * "if attack" -> "if the attack" or "if an attack" From nobody Wed Dec 16 00:17:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0F43A1102 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 00:17:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=QkCWX4PL; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=OLNxCNdd Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K-B3oVqRSjlE for ; 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Wed, 16 Dec 2020 08:17:34 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] RPL-Unaware-Leaf or RPL-Unaware Leaf ? 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X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 08:17:39 -0000 Dear all I committed draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-25 with RPL-Unaware Leaf convent= ion. Note that I also lowercased leaf, host and router throughout based on revie= w comments.=20 This needs to aligned in useofrplinfo, which seems to use pseudo-randomly = the uppercased version. Note: I left Leaf uppercased only in the full " RPL-(Un)aware Leaf ". Still= time to change but we want alignment. What do you all think? Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Roll On Behalf Of Timothy J. Salo > Sent: mardi 15 d=E9cembre 2020 23:48 > To: roll@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Roll] RPL-Unaware-Leaf or RPL-Unaware Leaf ? >=20 > On 12/14/2020 7:08 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > > > Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) wro= te: > > > Ines, do we agree to change both drafts to say RPL-(un)aware Lea= f|node > > > ? > > > > >> Another of the hyphenation rules is: > > >> > > >> o Use a hyphen to avoid confusion. > > > > I prefer this rule, and to leave it as "RPL-unware-leaf" >=20 > I assume an editor will catch this and change it to RPL-unaware leaf. >=20 > In my view, "RPL-unaware leaf" is grammatically correct and unambiguous. >=20 > -tjs >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From nobody Wed Dec 16 00:50:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 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b=bViZqAVjqJUTVkBlhhZYhnH1/L/3NoEwwhBjxNUa5ZQGj7t2d4VOs9qKjOvQR4AS2seoCIpS4731Lq1oB/orMZkHiCjl9g/QZwQqWKqijOOEz55lm/GRuUrP0vPCtKyP7lcTI17VagCAcZa/dfnDi+khHREEuI7c04sJn7glzuk= Received: from CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:91::20) by MW3PR11MB4635.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:2c::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3654.14; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 08:50:34 +0000 Received: from CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499:4510:59d6:8f61]) by CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499:4510:59d6:8f61%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3654.020; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 08:50:34 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Roman Danyliw , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" , "roll@ietf.org" , JADHAV Rahul , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-25: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: 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dGlvbiB0aXRsZS4NCj4gDQo+ICAgICBEb25lDQo+IA0KPiAgICAgPiAtLSBTZWN0aW9uIDUuNCAt LQ0KPiAgICAgPiBTdWdnZXN0IHRvIGRyb3AgIiBhbmQgdGhlIHBhY2tldCBpcyBkcm9wcGVkIG90 aGVyd2lzZS4iDQo+IA0KPiAgICAgRG9uZQ0KPiANCj4gICAgIEEgZ3JlYXQgbWFueSB0aGFua3Mg RXJpYyENCj4gDQo+ICAgICBQbGVhc2UgbGV0IG1lIGtub3cgaWYgSSBuZWVkIHRvIGRvIG1vcmUu DQo+IA0KPiAgICAgVGFrZSBjYXJlIGFuZCBlbmpveSB3ZWxsLWRlc2VydmVkIHZhY2F0aW9ucyA6 ICkNCj4gDQo+ICAgICBQYXNjYWwNCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Dec 16 04:33:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EA4B3A0AA1; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 04:33:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <160812201820.27719.4515947836629316620@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 04:33:38 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 12:33:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : Routing for RPL Leaves Authors : Pascal Thubert Michael C. Richardson Filename : draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26.txt Pages : 41 Date : 2020-12-16 Abstract: This specification updates RFC6550, RFC6775, and RFC8505. It provides a mechanism for a host that implements a routing-agnostic interface based on 6LoWPAN Neighbor Discovery to obtain reachability services across a network that leverages RFC6550 for its routing operations. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Dec 16 04:38:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882C63A0AAD; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 04:38:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=gR82QNM/; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=UnD9teme Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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15.20.3654.020; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 12:38:34 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Erik Kline , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" , "roll@ietf.org" , Peter Van der Stok , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: Erik Kline's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHW027lA6s1+UY7JEO2hFM1mSKZJqn5anUw Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 12:38:13 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 12:37:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160809761379.22994.11202105892505044046@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160809761379.22994.11202105892505044046@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2a01:cb1d:4ec:2200:80f0:4acd:dde0:b36f] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 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YXQgd291bGQgYmUgZ29vZCwgSSB0aG91Z2h0ICJjb25zdW1lZCIgd2FzIG1vcmUgY29tbW9uIHRo YW4gaXQgdXN1YWxseSBhcHBlYXJzIHRvIGJlLCBhdCBsZWFzdCBpbiB0aGUgUkZDcy4NCg0KS2Vl cCBzYWZlOw0KDQpQYXNjYWwNCg0K From nobody Wed Dec 16 05:06:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB66F3A0AD5 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 05:06:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id An0kuvKSA8K3 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 05:06:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFE453A0AD3 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 05:06:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAA013899E for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 08:09:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id bFtD4wN5di6L for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 08:09:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9B03899C for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 08:09:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07A6490 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 08:06:29 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: References: <161a2e64-0325-5a22-ce1d-28a58888aaed@saloits.com> <0CF0DCA8-FCAE-435B-9C23-CC00DE80F42E@cisco.com> <29100.1607994514@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] RPL-Unaware-Leaf or RPL-Unaware Leaf ? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:06:35 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) wrote: > I committed draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-25 with RPL-Unaware Leaf > convention. Note that I also lowercased leaf, host and router > throughout based on review comments. This needs to aligned in > useofrplinfo, which seems to use pseudo-randomly the uppercased > version. Note: I left Leaf uppercased only in the full " RPL-(Un)awa= re > Leaf ". Still time to change but we want alignment. > What do you all think? Works for me. Ines and I will fix useofrplinfo. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl/aBlUACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXB8Af/Qd5ygpT6wk1zF++ZI8ZYTmk6Xo3ERs1VA6aL8IMfo1PM9ZnmKSnDw0bw fk/Yv+d/ezBYlz7Q+bRm6+3haZtlQWxfVtIVUzJOb0/D1GvStkD/S4zGP7CM6moF hbQEJIltB1hOyWkEiWL8WB4TC9KlhYDKnAd3Oco3rgWBZOiyN2Jw8dJoZNoiDsHf U2kaE7/pNtD69QJWN4FT93nUsoGvJnwICKwyBZrhpaOys86MhEy3FkWFnmVHbEGa PP+iSju1ZBS5R9suJZ5Zfs9f0KvhGj1fdkE/BrQeR7avdOkB3LumFCbkFWOrDeUN 7KgeDXZNCY3f71fKrT5bEi7YaD+DQg== =J8/6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Dec 16 10:01:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 829843A0A70 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:01:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9gCCtD-M3DaS for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:01:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72CC63A0A50 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:01:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2978638981; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id snn2fqTuTRsX; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:04:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 441403899C; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:04:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F54BAA9; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:01:34 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Erik Kline , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: <160809761379.22994.11202105892505044046@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160809761379.22994.11202105892505044046@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Erik Kline's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:01:41 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Erik Kline via Datatracker wrote: > I might recommend instead referring to RFC 6554 S4.2 for how to > handle RH3's if the node is also a RPL-aware router and say it MUST > drop the packet if segments left is non-zero and it's not a RPL-aware > router. > Related: I'd also recommend: > "It should just be noted that an incoming RH3 must be fully consume= d, > or very carefully inspected." -> > "It should just be noted that an incoming RH3 MUST be fully > consumed." I think that Pascal and I, when we write the "carefully inspected", is that we are imagining situations where the topology is a bit subtle. Perhaps there are firewalls involved. Perhaps a device has multiple interfaces (many radios for instance) and the extra segments address the other interfaces. Also draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane uses storing mode, so never h= as RH3 headers, but imagine if it did. One could have a situation where the physical system containing one or more layers of container was not the ultimate last hop from a logical point of view. Rather than inner container was. So, it's all the same stack actually. In that case, an optimization might be to process more than one segment in that stack. (The ANIMA ACP definitely supports having VMs and containers inside routers) So, I can live with your suggestion, because in my case above, we can argue that it's still "consumed" > * I'm confused by the use of "consumed" here. Is the final RH3 entry > RUL's address? I guess you could say RH penultimate hop "consumes" t= he > header because the ultimate destination address is put in the header = DA > field. Seems a bit odd though. Yes, that's what we mean. Once that ultimate destination is in the DA, then the RH3 is a dummy, but o= ne we are aren't supposed to remove. > I assume 6LR_n gets RUL's address from the last segment in RH3. > "Consumed" means segments left =3D=3D 0, I guess? I suppose should= have > picked up on this terminology when it was first used in Section 2. > Maybe clarify what it means in that section (2)? Yes. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl/aS34ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXPXQf/W8y7wiIQVt3yzlpzA23+mBtTbogeq9wiaDgNVTQKzZGDXBrrns6/wH0w JixCtdmAacK084ydE74LGjCjeUzrwtKVTekpsn/fVgZvQD2fn0deJCXxWJ/1ZXyI Y2gkd4dgkGnrgXWygaJ2GeVfmTybyxQJcUfJlh7C4x1yEZi/qpUbzf5wJI0m3tLR hYECknnJJBTCQCd9MvWznBbUZeAHhYJOC+xWSpqBnEaqTIrYL4vOFLcbagGBrhoY gRJdBB1E3Yzafh7on562fsXa1Vj/w24Ky4Dwy5BVWBGkeRs1xN4Yn5qbz0+9aI8m Xeu3aPF7NlxhDvHFL/JZEtGvqx1gqQ== =8OWx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Dec 16 11:46:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA9153A0E87; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 11:46:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, Peter Van der Stok , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, consultancy@vanderstok.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Roman Danyliw Message-ID: <160814800167.20251.14392154204786699833@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 11:46:41 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 19:46:42 -0000 Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to Daniel Migault for the SECDIR review. I have nothing substantive to add to the new text here. My feedback was addressed in -29 after the first IESG review of this document. A few nits: ** Section 1. Editorial. s/it is recommended the reading of [I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels] that explains/ [I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels] is recommended reading to explain/ ** Section 4.2. What is “abusively naming it”? ** Section 4.2. Editorial. s/There is therefore no longer a necessity to/There is no longer a need to/ From nobody Wed Dec 16 13:26:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E963A10E6 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:26:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8mb83qA6Pzfb for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oo1-xc30.google.com (mail-oo1-xc30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02B313A10E4 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:26:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oo1-xc30.google.com with SMTP id q6so5381024ooo.8 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:26:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=omNDHEWBkvmi5nrJLi6nN0Nyh5Appfs/kcO/XM8ud0w=; b=BfaE9d1Hmh48+/i76ZGzvC4UCQK7cguBD9PXJGejP270QNcnoR48jgXx2b5Jte7QlU Z8+/NIKrm8eBTZnExDpBU3kSeQ/C9XuxnarkVXVR4FFbuzmyTIvQd+VQW8AuP5AYDlqW 7om/qYYRDzjPtQGRipvE4pfdfivArqkPp89TmwTdp6C3XmRR3HabeiFo9a1dLBA21P5d ud9qw3NLFmRNn1nED1LIPm9sgIiQEXTApc1//gHs8cXZ/wXDmaV48WDOeCpfdNVIDEsX ye2VYhZCjWU5VK1Tf9Goc9kDS9WfOJ5i4wrSyMlxf+RWWBT/kBACqPY8HcRlQK2H82xK UVHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=omNDHEWBkvmi5nrJLi6nN0Nyh5Appfs/kcO/XM8ud0w=; b=SOQyWTJBKmidiGNkhXDKiOIvcgagqLJ7bieWjUy1eteM4ySy4Moh61JWwF0DcL8w/w vL2EFNFz9T0wLK9iV6i+CFdcOvqpc9vfwwFifpf8gQ5bda+omXDwz1K92I2mOouaoT25 0Ck57IPtZPtUnZkmdLdPwoppfW98z4CkBsor1dcpLBpJIVw3cXZYsStstSl8+Rtz/G+2 XIDSxkO2M1m94cS/2Go1d+ks491XJi+mSOGNDZBOPfoBKze9El/VhQC4ORFyU8NZweoE eB/46oCTdGIwD6mmsbBLfTOC6KLZD+jjs1BYmlQxrKkNrFEmHBg6REyljJu9c9Lw5arn 0K+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53105IqqwfYIdXRteEfepwm4u74lsYRVN52U3TvCNI8AR34ys+7s I29k4/60kg/lXQel9t6BA5lvR6FEjNDbGOd2zDY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyCEe112FqkJ0QZfp1elrqB6M+Fo5dN0qSKWB9XyB9knGrlJ+7DzehLqcdA6Dki/67hw60IcpwJpTz+89YLKn8= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:94e2:: with SMTP id l31mr11502784ooi.66.1608153996164; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:26:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160809761379.22994.11202105892505044046@ietfa.amsl.com> <9337.1608141694@localhost> In-Reply-To: <9337.1608141694@localhost> From: Erik Kline Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:26:25 -0800 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000af821a05b69b87cd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Erik Kline's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 21:26:39 -0000 --000000000000af821a05b69b87cd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 10:01 AM Michael Richardson wrote: > > Erik Kline via Datatracker wrote: > > I might recommend instead referring to RFC 6554 S4.2 for how to > > handle RH3's if the node is also a RPL-aware router and say it MUST > > drop the packet if segments left is non-zero and it's not a RPL-awa= re > > router. > > > Related: I'd also recommend: > > > "It should just be noted that an incoming RH3 must be fully > consumed, > > or very carefully inspected." > > -> > > > "It should just be noted that an incoming RH3 MUST be fully > > consumed." > > I think that Pascal and I, when we write the "carefully inspected", is > that we are imagining situations where the topology is a bit subtle. > Perhaps there are firewalls involved. > Perhaps a device has multiple interfaces (many radios for instance) and t= he > extra segments address the other interfaces. > > Also draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane uses storing mode, so never > has > RH3 headers, but imagine if it did. > > One could have a situation where the physical system containing one or mo= re > layers of container was not the ultimate last hop from a logical point of > view. Rather than inner container was. So, it's all the same stack > actually. In that case, an optimization might be to process more than > one segment in that stack. > (The ANIMA ACP definitely supports having VMs and containers inside > routers) > (trying to respond to both threads) I guess, one way to look at it would be: for any given node, receiving a packet with an RH3 and segments left > 0, does the discussion here change anything? If the node is part of nested layers of networking it might do what it's configured to do, and if it's a plain vanilla host it should reject the packet. If there's no behaviour change then perhaps we can just trim all the text and point text elsewhre (I have a note from reading last night about roll-unaware-leaves S5.4 being a possible landing spot for a pointer, as Pascal mentioned above). Thanks for the ongoing discussion! So, I can live with your suggestion, because in my case above, > we can argue that it's still "consumed" > > > * I'm confused by the use of "consumed" here. Is the final RH3 ent= ry > > RUL's address? I guess you could say RH penultimate hop "consumes" > the > > header because the ultimate destination address is put in the heade= r > DA > > field. Seems a bit odd though. > > Yes, that's what we mean. > Once that ultimate destination is in the DA, then the RH3 is a dummy, but > one > we are aren't supposed to remove. > > > I assume 6LR_n gets RUL's address from the last segment in RH3. > > > "Consumed" means segments left =3D=3D 0, I guess? I suppose shou= ld > have > > picked up on this terminology when it was first used in Section 2. > > Maybe clarify what it means in that section (2)? > > Yes. > > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consul= ting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > > > --000000000000af821a05b69b87cd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 10:01 AM Mich= ael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sand= elman.ca> wrote:

Erik Kline via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0I might recommend instead referring to RFC 6= 554 S4.2 for how to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > handle RH3's if the node is also a RPL-aware router = and say it MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > drop the packet if segments left is non-zero and it'= s not a RPL-aware
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > router.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0Related: I'd also recommend:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0"It should just be noted that an incomi= ng RH3 must be fully consumed,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > or very carefully inspected."

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ->

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0"It should just be noted that an incomi= ng RH3 MUST be fully
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > consumed."

I think that Pascal and I, when we write the "carefully inspected"= ;, is
that we are imagining situations where the topology is a bit subtle.
Perhaps there are firewalls involved.
Perhaps a device has multiple interfaces (many radios for instance) and the=
extra segments address the other interfaces.

Also draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane uses storing mode, so never h= as
RH3 headers, but imagine if it did.

One could have a situation where the physical system containing one or more=
layers of container was not the ultimate last hop from a logical point of view.=C2=A0 Rather than inner container was.=C2=A0 So, it's all the sam= e stack
actually.=C2=A0 In that case, an optimization might be to process more than=
one segment in that stack.
(The ANIMA ACP definitely supports having VMs and containers inside routers= )

(trying to respond to both threads)

I guess, one way to look at it would be: for any gi= ven node, receiving a packet with an RH3 and segments left > 0, does the= discussion here change anything?=C2=A0 If the node is part of nested layer= s of networking it might do what it's configured to do, and if it's= a plain vanilla host it should reject the packet.

If there's no behaviour change then perhaps we can just trim all the t= ext and point text elsewhre (I have a note from reading last night about ro= ll-unaware-leaves S5.4 being a possible landing spot for a pointer, as Pasc= al mentioned above).

Thanks for the ongoing discus= sion!

So, I can live with your suggestion, because in my case above,
we can argue that it's still "consumed"

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > * I'm confused by the use of "consumed" he= re.=C2=A0 Is the final RH3 entry
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > RUL's address?=C2=A0 I guess you could say RH penult= imate hop "consumes" the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > header because the ultimate destination address is put i= n the header DA
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > field.=C2=A0 Seems a bit odd though.

Yes, that's what we mean.
Once that ultimate destination is in the DA, then the RH3 is a dummy, but o= ne
we are aren't supposed to remove.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0I assume 6LR_n gets RUL's address from t= he last segment in RH3.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Consumed" means segments left =3D= =3D 0, I guess?=C2=A0 I suppose should have
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > picked up on this terminology when it was first used in = Section 2.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Maybe clarify what it means in that section (2)?

Yes.


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>=C2=A0 =C2=A0. o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T co= nsulting )
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sandelman Software Works Inc, Otta= wa and Worldwide




--000000000000af821a05b69b87cd-- From nobody Wed Dec 16 14:27:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D61A3A1272; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 14:27:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Erik Kline via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, JADHAV Rahul , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, rahul.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Erik Kline Message-ID: <160815766116.17846.998250833815171596@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 14:27:41 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Erik Kline's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 22:27:41 -0000 Erik Kline has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (I reviewed -25, only skimmed the diff from -25 to -26) [[ comments ]] [ section 5.4 ] * Another way to address non-zero segments left RH3s in useofrplinfo might be to add some text here saying they MUST be dropped and MAY send ICMPv6 error messages, and then point to this text. Or just say that there's no change to the processing of these from existing documents. Or something. [[ nits ]] [ section 9.1 ] * "to maintain the NCE ... alive" -> "to keep the NCE ... alive", I think [ section 9.2 ] * "ad serving" -> "and serving", probably [ section 9.2.1 ] * "signaled a 6CIO" -> "signaled by a 6CIO" [ section 10 ] * ". ." -> "." From nobody Wed Dec 16 18:27:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41C43A0AC3; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:27:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=Vfwc8NgY; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=ohsbI1Mt Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4InKLGw6EHgN; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C29E93A138D; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:27:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187E85C0041; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 21:27:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 16 Dec 2020 21:27:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= from:message-id:content-type:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; s=fm1; bh=JcLDYhajm92boVxeW2pAlTF 8qLxJZvLp7pIncyPMdfY=; b=Vfwc8NgYeWSZJ/8V8AD7+huM+cT4ZJh4+cXNnUL J0Q2lfaR8nvvJn+S7V3rBJqwWML5Kp3YHnc2npR+EbiiGK1TJuvlkAhGkZRXUMez OSFIMfCWAHdOJ7Z0ImXRcEIu82Fg8rQYJkS3i5mrHFeqX5g70dE4fhrPtrZ6iLd0 +JE8k8q92EVUs537EZMTVS2xr+38ee0NdAJ0lZy3xhvPbMBQCrRchYmfCaQ/DtUF Rff96W2poheAT6RMhXoj6s4Fs69MFxVx8AHTZsmU22wGY1P5aIStvXbMI2ro6n+F 903KHI2Dtq84kB3loJWvus8feHPdSsFdHcJUtsPM1GJi4ZQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=JcLDYh ajm92boVxeW2pAlTF8qLxJZvLp7pIncyPMdfY=; b=ohsbI1MtNIVzhJZEZIYLUJ W4cQn8V2heANv3+rxSZU78XCese+00ZPvgH0cS1jqJpel+gKBeZy+uBtVVPPtEH4 DC66vYl/wEP8t2AY+HCsOpju/QdeFyIe61BcP+KsjEf8qS2nL3jlEK3NY2zFFXLO bHDy6o1A5bWEDM4MuR/IoEfZLRG1R9hQVI9FinwXvlRaa1uCRJGuapgb/nFRjUVv NY73tAQFzBrQclA7F6LO+mm1Ic1OLfJCZWqUGMEcmoCe3058OeXLgEFBqZ6R/nRk DkDue8UXD3B2LB4B4XB3LvqfUQvCO0DOc46KwIBMXRs5JjEOS3CXfwz9pTFzyU2A == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrudelfedggeejucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephffktgggufffjgfvfhfosegrtdhmrehhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeetlhhishhs rgcuvehoohhpvghruceorghlihhsshgrsegtohhophgvrhifrdhinheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepgeegffefuddvffeflefgheektdeigfehffdtteetieeffefhfedugeduuedv vefhnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepudejfedrfeekrdduudejrd eludenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegr lhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhn X-ME-Proxy: Received: from rtp-vpn4-1171.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.91]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D24471080063; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 21:27:33 -0500 (EST) From: Alissa Cooper Message-Id: <266BBD74-4A92-406D-903C-F7104F08EBCE@cooperw.in> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8FFE5259-A691-4DB6-A17E-4F7C4F38D40C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 21:27:32 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: elwynd , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves.all@ietf.org" , "roll@ietf.org" , "last-call@ietf.org" To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , Elwyn Davies References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-24 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 02:27:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8FFE5259-A691-4DB6-A17E-4F7C4F38D40C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Elwyn, thanks for your review. Pascal, thanks for your responses. I = entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Dec 15, 2020, at 2:36 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) = wrote: >=20 > Many Thanks Elwynd: >=20 > >=20 > > s6.3, next to last para. s8 and s 12.2: In view of the statement in = s6.3: > > The RPL Root MUST set the 'E' flag to 1 for all rejection and = unknown status > > codes. The status codes in the 1-10 range [RFC8505] are all = considered > > rejections. I think that IANA should be requested to add a column to = the EARO > > status codes registry being modified by s12.2 to add a column that = identifies a > > status code as a rejection or otherwise. Some words in s8 may be = appropriate. >=20 > Well that would require normative text on the 6LoWPAN part. I guess we = can do that at the next iteration of a 6LoWPAN ND specification. > For now what we specify is that from the RPL perspective the listed = codes denote a failure such that the RPL operation that wraps it cannot = happen and that's enough for us. >=20 > ED> While I understand that it would be polite to involve 6LoWPAN, = WGs don't 'own' RFCs and their associated IANA registries. Since this = draft 'needs' the extra information I personally wouldn't see a problem = in asking for the extra column. It doesn't break anythng 6LoWPAN are = doing AFAICS. Anyway that's not my call... ask your AD. >=20 >=20 > PT> I posted a separate thread on this one. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > > s7: Given that [EFFICIENT-NPDAO] is still a draft, I think this = section should be > > synchronized with the draft so that we don't end up with one or the = other new > > RFC updating an RFC that doesn't yet exist. >=20 > Yes, this was a discussion with Alvaro as well during his AD review = and what you see is the outcome. > In particular, this is one reason why [EFFICIENT-NPDAO] is referenced = normatively.=20 >=20 > ED> Hmm. Maybe the rest of the IESG will have something to say about = this. =20 >=20 > PT> Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by synchronize. Would you = report the change in NPDAO? >=20 > PT> trouble is that spec is virtually RFC, stuck in MISSREF in cluster = C 310, in particular by this doc. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > Abstract: Expand RPL on first use (currently done in s1.) Expand = ND. >=20 > Done it (relunctantly) for ND. RPL has been used as a noun by people = of the art for a long while now. Expending it would turn the abstract in = a book. >=20 > ED> I know, I know. But it isn't in the RDC Editor's list of = well-jnown abbreviations. Sorry! > =20 > PT> It=E2=80=99s hard to recognized RPL in its full expansion. I = tricked the text to avoid the acronym. > =E2=80=9C > This specification updates RFC6550, RFC6775, and RFC8505, to = provide > routing services to IPv6 Nodes that implement RFC6775, RFC8505, and > their extensions therein, but do not support RFC6550. > =20 > =E2=80=9C > =20 >=20 > > s9.2.3, item 1: This would be a useful point to mention that the = Target IPv6 > > address is marked by the F Flag being 1. >=20 > Actually it is not. It is set to 0 per the previous section. But the = Prefix Length is 128 indicating a host address (not that of the = advertiser though, thus the 'F' flag set to 0). > =20 > ED> I'll take your word for that! The point I was trying to make was = that given you have introduced the F Flag, I think it would be highly = desirable to explicitly highlight the point where an implementation = would expect to set an F flag as well as places where it isn't set. I = thought there would be an opportunity somewhere in s9.2.1. >=20 > PT> You=E2=80=99re correct, we define the flag here because we = change the Target Option but this spec is not the one that really needs = it. It was an opportunistic insertion. This information is useful to = test the path back when we advertise a prefix. It gives the root an = address to ping within the advertised prefix. For Host routes, it=E2=80=99= s only an indicator that the node is advertising self vs. another party, = which in the case of this spec, is redundant with the =E2=80=98External=E2= =80=99 flag. > =20 > Take care, > =20 > Pascal > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art = ___________________________= ____________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art = --Apple-Mail=_8FFE5259-A691-4DB6-A17E-4F7C4F38D40C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Elwyn, thanks for your review. Pascal, thanks for your = responses. I entered a No Objection ballot.

Alissa


On Dec 15, 2020, at 2:36 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Many Thanks Elwynd:


> 
> s6.3, next to last para. s8 and s 12.2:  In view of = the statement in s6.3:
> The RPL Root MUST set the 'E' = flag to 1 for all rejection and unknown status
> codes. = The status codes in the 1-10 range [RFC8505] are all considered
> rejections. I think that IANA should be requested to add = a column to the EARO
> status codes registry being = modified by s12.2 to add a column that identifies a
> = status code as a rejection or otherwise.   Some words in s8 = may be appropriate.

Well that would require = normative text on the 6LoWPAN part. I guess we can do that at the next = iteration of a 6LoWPAN ND specification.
For now what we = specify is that from the RPL perspective the listed codes denote a = failure such that the RPL operation that wraps it cannot happen and = that's enough for us.

ED>  While I = understand that it would be polite to involve 6LoWPAN, WGs don't 'own' = RFCs and their associated IANA registries.  Since this draft = 'needs' the extra information I personally wouldn't see a problem in = asking for the extra column. It doesn't break anythng 6LoWPAN are doing = AFAICS. Anyway that's not my call...  ask your AD.

PT> I posted a separate thread = on this one.

 

 

 

 


> s7:  = Given that [EFFICIENT-NPDAO] is still a draft,  I think this = section should be
> synchronized with the  draft = so that we don't end up with one or the other new
> RFC = updating an RFC that doesn't yet exist.

Yes, = this was a discussion with Alvaro as well during his AD review and what = you see is the outcome.
In particular, this is one reason = why [EFFICIENT-NPDAO] is referenced normatively. 

ED>  Hmm.  Maybe the rest of the IESG will have = something to say about this.  

PT> Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by synchronize. = Would you report the change in NPDAO?

PT> trouble is that spec is virtually RFC, stuck in = MISSREF in cluster C 310, in particular by this doc.




> 
> Abstract:  Expand RPL on first use (currently done = in s1.) Expand ND.

Done it (relunctantly) = for ND. RPL has been used as a noun by people of the art for a long = while now. Expending it would turn the abstract in a book.

ED>  I know, I know.  But it = isn't in the RDC Editor's list of well-jnown abbreviations.  = Sorry!
 
PT> It=E2=80=99s hard to recognized RPL in its full = expansion. I tricked the text to avoid the acronym.
=E2=80=9C
   This specification updates RFC6550, = RFC6775, and RFC8505, to provide
   = routing services to IPv6 Nodes that implement RFC6775, RFC8505, and
   = their extensions therein, but do not support RFC6550.
 
=E2=80=9C
 

> s9.2.3, item 1:  This would be a = useful point to mention that the Target IPv6
> address = is marked by the F Flag being 1.

Actually = it is not. It is set to 0 per the previous section. But the Prefix = Length is 128 indicating a host address (not that of the advertiser = though, thus the 'F' flag set to 0).
 
ED> I'll take = your word for that!  The point I was trying to make was that given = you have introduced the F Flag,  I think it would be highly = desirable to explicitly highlight the point where an implementation = would expect to set an F flag as well as places where it isn't = set.  I thought there would be an opportunity somewhere in = s9.2.1.

  PT> You=E2=80=99re correct, we define the flag here = because we change the Target Option but this spec is not the one that = really needs it. It was an opportunistic insertion. This information is = useful to test the path back when we advertise a prefix. It gives the = root an address to ping within the advertised prefix. For Host routes, = it=E2=80=99s only an indicator that the node is advertising self vs. = another party, which in the case of this spec, is redundant with the = =E2=80=98External=E2=80=99 flag.
 
Take care,
 
Pascal
 
 
_______________________________________________
Gen-art mailing list
Gen-art@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art
_______________________________________________
Gen-art mailing list
Gen-art@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art

= --Apple-Mail=_8FFE5259-A691-4DB6-A17E-4F7C4F38D40C-- From nobody Wed Dec 16 20:10:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB4893A1402; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 20:10:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Barry Leiba via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, Peter Van der Stok , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, consultancy@vanderstok.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Barry Leiba Message-ID: <160817820238.8811.1808720747296891005@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 20:10:02 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 04:10:03 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I would have liked to spend more time on this than I had, but I do have some non-blocking comments that I’d like you to consider: — Section 2 — Flag Day: In this document, refers to a transition that involves having a network with different values of RPI Option Type. I don’t understand. First, I don’t find the text here clear at all: is it trying to say that two different values are coexisting (present at the same time) in one network? Second, that seems to be exactly the opposite of what we usually use a flag day for. The normal meaning of “flag day” is a preset time when a changeover is made, exactly *because* the old and the new can’t coexist interoperably. A “flag day” isn’t a situation caused by two non-interoperable things... it’s a mechanism for resolving such a situation by making an abrupt, planned changeover from one to the other. — Section 4.2 — Thus, this document updates the Option Type of the RPL Option [RFC6553], abusively naming it RPI Option Type for simplicity, What is the point of “abusively” here? What’s it supposed to mean? — Section 10 — This options allows to send packets to not-RPL nodes, which should ignore the option and continue processing the packets. I can’t sort this sentence out: 1. “This options” is mixing singular and plural. 2. No option or options has/have been mentioned before, so I don’t know what option(s) it’s talking about. 3. I guess you mean “non-RPL”, rather than “not-RPL“. 4. Allows *who* to send packets? “Allows to” needs a subject, like “allows a node to send”, or some such. 5. What is the antecedent to “which”? It’s not clear to me. As mentioned previously, indicating the new RPI in the DODAG Configuration option flag is a way to avoid the flag day (lack of interoperation) in a network using 0x63 as the RPI Option Type value. I’ll just note that this is a correct use of “flag day”, but with an odd explanation in the parentheses. I would say “(abrupt, disruptive changeover)”. From nobody Wed Dec 16 20:19:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9A03A1423; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 20:19:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Barry Leiba via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, JADHAV Rahul , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, rahul.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Barry Leiba Message-ID: <160817878823.24133.7575260683414956662@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 20:19:48 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 04:19:48 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I’ll note in response to Éric’s comment about the downref that 7102 is in the downref registry, so no further exception is needed. 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id F10273A0CF9; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 00:08:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Murray Kucherawy via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, JADHAV Rahul , aretana.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Murray Kucherawy Message-ID: <160819251696.25631.6674390282902636212@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 00:08:36 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 08:08:37 -0000 Murray Kucherawy has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The shepherd writeup says "With these reviews and discussions -15 is ready for IESG review." But -23 was last called, and this is version -26. Just checking... is this all still current? Though it is present in the glossary in Section 2.2, I don't see "AR" anywhere in this document. The glossary also needs to be sorted again. From nobody Thu Dec 17 00:38:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A2F73A1543; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 00:38:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, JADHAV Rahul , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, rahul.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <160819432500.25662.694953130654522537@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 00:38:45 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 08:38:46 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to Carl Wallace for the secdir review, and to the authors for having addressed the review comments. There's a lot of updates in this document of various sorts, and it's a bit challenging to reason about all of them, especially with respect to feature negotiation/incremental deployment. This will be a recurring theme in my detailed comments. My current understanding so far is: - there is not currently any support for RULs, so we don't really need to worry about existing RULs that do not comply with this spec (though this spec does add a couple new requirements not present with the stock versions of 6LoWPAN ND, etc.) - If the RPL Root doesn't support this, it can't be used - the RPL Root advertises its support via the 'P' flag in the DODAG Configuration Option that is sent to all 6LRs - Many message flows require the support of a 6LR to initiate them - but there seem to be some cases where there are asynchronous messages originating from the root (or 6LBR) ... can they end up at a 6LR that does not support the new strucures? - The RPL Root can now proxy EDAR/EDAC ... but can a 6LR "miss the memo" for that and also attempt EDAR? (IIUC, "no", since such a 6LR wouldn't know about RULs in the first place.) - Some of the new mechanisms (e.g., suppression of periodic EDAR in favor of DAO and proxying by the RPL Root) are not limited to use by RULs (?) and thus could be triggered on behalf of nodes not expecting such services (?) It would be great to have some exposition on how this stuff is expected to be rolled out and how it's safe for incremental deployment, especially if (as the shepherd report indicates) we don't have any implementation experience to build confidence. There might be a small internal inconsistency in §9.2.2 in terms of what needs to be waited for before the NA(EARO) is emitted (see the detailed comments for why). I still feel that if we're going to incrementally add new properties to MOP 7, we should list the relevant documents as references in the registry until MOP 7 is fully specified. In this case we can arguably get away with not doing so since this document Updates: RFC 6550 already and thus could be said to be doing the reservation by modification of the core protocol, but we are not using that procedure universally (e.g., for turnon-rfc8138) and it seems prudent to use a consistent mechanism. Section 1 A RUL may be unable to participate because it is very energy- constrained, code-space constrained, or because it would be unsafe to let it inject routes in RPL. Using 6LoWPAN ND as opposed to RPL as the host-to-router interface limits the surface of the possible attacks by the RUL against the RPL domain, and can protect RUL for its address ownership. (nit?) I am not entirely sure what sense "and can protect" is used in. IIUC, a given leaf could either be a RAL or a RUL; an RAL participates in RPL and as such is assumed to be trusted to properly advertise routes, including protecting routes to its own address. In contrast, an RUL requires assistance of the RPL router to be able to protect its address, something that 6LoWPAN ND enables by virtue of the ROVR. So I feel like the contrast is more of a "but can still protect the RUL's address ownership" -- the "and can" construction suggests that this is an additional benefit of using 6LoWPAN ND that is not achieved when the leaf is RPL-aware. (Or am I conflating RPL and 6LoWPAN ND too much?) Section 3 details). If the packet from the RUL has an RPI, the 6LR as a RPL border router SHOULD rewrite the RPI to indicate the selected Instance and set the flags, but it does not need to encapsulate the packet. (1) why is there any normative language in a non-normative section? (2) doesn't it need to be a MUST, if it's not encapsulating? A RUL is not expected to support the compression method defined in [RFC8138]. For that reason, the border router uncompresses the packet before forwarding it over an external route to a RUL [USEofRPLinfo]. Just to confirm: the "border router" here is not the 6LBR but rather a "normal" 6LR (i.e., an "RPL boder router")? Section 4.2 "Registration Extensions for 6LoWPAN Neighbor Discovery" [RFC8505] updates the behavior of RFC 6775 to enable a generic Address Registration to services such as routing and ND proxy, and defines the Extended Address Registration Option (EARO) as shown in Figure 2: nit: the grammar seems off here; it would scan better if it was "to provide services", but I'm not 100% sure that's correct. Section 4.3 The exchange is protected by the retry mechanism (ARQ) specified in Section 8.2.6 of [RFC6775], though in an LLN, a duration longer than the default value of the RetransTimer (RETRANS_TIMER) [RFC4861] of 1 second may be necessary to cover the round trip delay between the 6LR and the 6LBR. This is the only place in the document that we use the term ARQ (other than the glossary), and RFC 6775 itself does not use the term either. So I'm not sure that it's adding much value (just risk of confusion if someone expects it to be present in RFC 6775 the way I did). Section 5.1 To obtain routing services from a router that implements this specification, a RUL needs to implement [RFC8505] and sets the "R" and "T" flags in the EARO to 1 as discussed in Section 4.2.1 and Section 4.2.3, respectively. Section 9.2.1 specifies new behaviors nit: s/4.2.3/4.2.2/ Section 6.1 The updated format is illustrated in Figure 4. It is backward compatible with the Target Option in [RFC6550]. It is recommended I agree that it is backwards compatible in the sense that it degenerates into the previous structure when the ROVR size is zero. But do we have confidence that existing implementations will do something useful if we use bits that they treat as flags, to indicate that the overall size of the option is increased in a way not previously envisioned? Section 6.2 Section 4.3 of [USEofRPLinfo] updates [RFC6550] to indicate that the definition of the Flags applies to Mode of Operation (MOP) values zero (0) to six (6) only. For a MOP value of 7, the implementation MUST consider that the Root performs the proxy operation. How is this to be noted for future implementors of MOP value 7? Are we relying on the "Updates:" relationship with 6550 to note this? Section 6.3 Status Value: 6-bit unsigned integer. If the 'A' flag is set to 1 this field transports a Status value defined for IPv6 ND EARO. When the 'A' flag is set to 0, the Status value is defined for RPL. nit(?): I suggest "the Status value is as defined for RPL" (add "as", or perhaps "one" in the same place). Reciprocally, upon a DCO or a DAO-ACK message from the RPL Root with a RPL Status that has the 'A' flag set, the 6LR MUST copy the RPL Status value unchanged in the Status field of the EARO when generating an NA to the RUL. By my reading "copy the RPL Status value unchanged" includes the values of the E and A flags (and this is predicated on 'A' being set), which doesn't seem like it would have the desired effect...I expect that only the StatusValue field is supposed to be copied (with the high bits set to zero)? Section 7 In the case of a RUL, the 6LR that serves the RUL acts as the RAN that receives the Non-Storing DCO. This specification leverages the Non-Storing DCO between the Root and the 6LR that serves as attachment router for a RUL. A 6LR and a Root that support this specification MUST implement the Non-Storing DCO. Should we mention with in the discussion of the 'P' flag in §6.2? I'm not entirely sure how the negotiation/enablement procedure works for a RAL, either. Section 8 * If the RPL Root advertises the capability to proxy the EDAR/EDAC exchange to the 6LBR, the 6LR refrains from sending the keep-alive EDAR message. If it is separated from the 6LBR, the Root regenerates the EDAR message to the 6LBR periodically, upon a DAO message that signals the liveliness of the address. I feel like we should mention the situation where the RPL Root advertises the 'P' flag but the 6LR does not support this specification. Do we end up with both the 6LR and the RPL Root sending the EDAR message, or is the RPL Root expected to notice that the 6LR is sending one and refrain from generating an additional one? (I guess we expect it to be uncommon that 6LBR and RPL Root are different, anyway?) Or is this just not supposed to happen because the mechanism only exists to support RULs and an un-updated 6LR will not attempt to support RULs? Section 9.1 6LN/RUL 6LR <6LR*> Root 6LBR | | | | |<------ND------>|<----RPL----->|<-------ND-------->| | |<----------------ND-------------->| Are these arrows still part of the "legend" (of sorts) as opposed to being indications of the initial flow(s)? To achieve this, the Path Sequence and the Path Lifetime in the DAO message are taken from the Transaction ID and the Address Registration lifetime in the NS(EARO) message from the 6LN. Reusing an identifier taken from one context in one protocol to play a role in a different context in a different protocol has historically led to security-relevant flaws/attacks. What kind of analysis has been done to consider the risk of such issues here? [RFC8929] expects that the 6LBR is collocated with the RPL Root, but if not, the 6LBR MUST forward the status code to the originator of the EDAR, either the 6LR or the RPL Root that proxies for it. The ND status code is mapped in a RPL Status value by the RPL Root, and then back by the 6LR. Continuing the theme, can we get into a scenario where the 6LR in this flow does not implement this specification but receives a DCO carrying an EARO status code? Figure 9 illustrates this in the case where the 6LBR and the Root are not collocated, and the Root proxies the EDAR messages. (The figure shows an EDAC message being proxied, not an EDAR message, though for the general case using EDAR as the description seems to make sense.) Section 9.2.1 This specification does not alter the operation of a 6LoWPAN ND- compliant 6LN/RUL, which is expected to operate as follows: [...] 5. Following section 5.1 of [RFC8505], a 6LN acting as a RUL sets the R Flag in the EARO of its registration(s) for which it requires routing services. If the R Flag is not echoed in the NA, the RUL SHOULD attempt to use another 6LR. The RUL SHOULD ensure that one registration succeeds before setting the R Flag to 0. [...] AFAICT the SHOULDs here represent a divergence from the previously specified 6LN/RUL 6LoWPAN ND behavior (not least because this document seems to be the first definition of using the R flag in the NA as opposed to NS), in contravention to the initial statement. Section 9.2.2 As described in [RFC8505], if the "I" field is zero, then the Opaque field is expected to carry the RPLInstanceID suggested by the 6LN; otherwise, there is no suggested Instance. If the 6LR participates in the suggested RPL Instance, then the 6LR MUST use that RPL Instance for the Registered Address. This MUST-level requirement seems to preclude any kind of policy filter on the 6LR to apply authorization checks to attempts to use a given RPL Instance. Is that intended? NA(EARO) to the RUL. Upon receiving an asynchronous DCO message, if a DAO-ACK is pending then the 6LR MUST wait for the DAO-ACK to send the NA(EARO) and deliver the status found in the DCO, else it MUST send an asynchronous NA(EARO) to the RUL immediately. I think I missed the explanation for why it has to wait for the DAO-ACK before sending the NA(EARO), if the DCO is going to take precedence. In particular, it seems to be in conflict with the description of the general flow in §9.1, which says that "[u]pon the DAO-ACK - or the DCO if one arrives first - the 6LR responds to the RUL with an NA(EARO)." The 6LR MUST set the R Flag to 1 in the NA(EARO) back if and only if the 'E' flag is set to 0, indicating that the 6LR injected the Registered Address in the RPL routing successfully and that the EDAR proxy operation succeeded. Please use a bit more detail on where the 'E' flag is (I assume it's the one taken from a bit that was formerly part of the 'Status' field in the RPL message, but in the next paragraph we clearly say it's the flag "in the RPL Status" to avoid any doubt). An error injecting the route causes the 'E' flag to be set to 1. If the error is not related to ND, the 'A' flag is set to 0. In that case, the registration succeeds, but the RPL route is not installed. So the NA(EARO) is returned with a status indicating success but the R Flag set to 0, which means that the 6LN obtained a binding but no route. Continuing the theme, can we get into a situation where the RUL does not check the R flag and assumes that there is a route installed? If the 'A' flag is set to 0 in the RPL Status of the DAO-ACK, then the 6LoWPAN ND operation succeeded, and an EARO Status of 0 (Success) MUST be returned to the 6LN. The EARO Status of 0 MUST also be used if the 6LR did not attempt to inject the route but could create the binding after a successful EDAR/EDAC exchange or refresh it. If the 'E' flag is set to 1 in the RPL Status of the DAO-ACK, then the route was not installed and the R flag MUST be set to 0 in the NA(EARO). The R flag MUST be set to 0 if the 6LR did not attempt to inject the route. These two paragraphs seem to have some amount of redundancy with the preceding few paragraphs, though I'm not entirely sure how much. In a network where Address Protected Neighbor Discovery (AP-ND) is enabled, in case of a DAO-ACK or a DCO indicating transporting an nit: It seems that we should just pick one of "indicating transporting". EARO Status value of 5 (Validation Requested), the 6LR MUST challenge the 6LN for ownership of the address, as described in section 6.1 of [RFC8928], before the Registration is complete. This flow, illustrated in Figure 10, ensures that the address is validated before it is injected in the RPL routing. To me Figure 10 is showing the flow where the 6LR itself initiates the "Validation Requested" state; I don't see a triggering DAO-ACK or DCO. The 6LR may at any time send a unicast asynchronous NA(EARO) with the R Flag set to 0 to signal that it stops providing routing services, Staying on theme, what will a RUL that doesn't know about this spec do with such an asynchronous NA(EARO)? Section 9.2.3 A RPL Root MUST set the 'P' flag to 1 in the RPL DODAG Configuration Option of the DIO messages that it generates (see Section 6) to signal that it proxies the EDAR/EDAC exchange and supports the Updated RPL Target option. [just noting that this is another place, in addition to §6.2, where we enumerate what the 'P' flag signals, which may be incomplete, per my previous comment.] Section 10 The 6LR acts as a generic MLD querier and generates a DAO with the Multicast Address as the Target Prefix as described in section 12 of [RFC6550]. As for the Unicast host routes, the Path Lifetime associated to the Target is mapped from the Query Interval, and set to be larger to account for variable propagation delays to the Root. (Is this just the "round up, if needed" setting, or is there more to consider when accounting for variable propagation delays?) The Root proxies the MLD exchange as a listener with the 6LBR acting as the querier, so as to get packets from a source external to the RPL domain. (Only if the source is external to the RPL domain, right?) Section 11 It is worth noting that with [RFC6550], every node in the LLN is RPL- aware and can inject any RPL-based attack in the network. This specification isolates edge nodes that can only interact with the RPL routers using 6LoWPAN ND, meaning that they cannot perform RPL insider attacks. (editorial) I suggest some phrasing akin to "this specification improves the situation by isolating edge nodes so they can only interact [...]". In a general manner, the Security Considerations in [RFC7416] [RFC6775], and [RFC8505] apply to this specification as well. But not those of RFC 6550? More importantly, the 6LR is the node that injects the traffic in the RPL domain, so it has the final word on which RPLInstance is to be used for the traffic coming from the RUL, per its own policy. [I do believe I commented previously about just this topic :) ] From nobody Thu Dec 17 00:48:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E79A3A1560; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 00:48:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, Peter Van der Stok , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, consultancy@vanderstok.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <160819489105.25605.11079363541720541245@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 00:48:11 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 08:48:11 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unfortunately, I only had time to review the diff from the -29 (that addressed my previous batch of comments) and the -42, and was not able to attempt to look closely at the new tables and their depiction of the added/modified/removed/untouched headers. As such, I do not have many comments. Since we are marking MOP value 7 as reserved, do we expect this document to be listed as a reference for that entry in the registry? Section 1 Most of the use cases described therein require the use of IPv6-in- nit: s/therein/herein/ Section 2 Flag Day: In this document, refers to a transition that involves having a network with different values of RPI Option Type. Is the flag day the act of transitioning the network from one value to the other, or only the sub-case when it is a disruptive transition, or ...? Section 3 routed. A RPL Instance is either fully storing or fully non-storing, i.e. a RPL Instance with a combination of storing and non-storing nodes is not supported with the current specifications at the time of writing this document. (I assume there is no conflict between this statement and the behavior described in Section 4.1.1 whereby external routes are advertised with non-storing-mode messaging even in a storing-mode network.) Section 4.1.1 In order to enable IP-in-IP all the way to a 6LN, it is beneficial that the 6LN supports decapsulating IP-in-IP, but that is not assumed by [RFC8504]. If the 6LN is a RUL, the Root that encapsulates a packet SHOULD terminate the tunnel at a parent 6LR unless it is aware that the RUL supports IP-in-IP decapsulation. Is there anything useful to say about how the Root would know that the RUL supports IP-in-IP decapsulation? ("No" is a valid answer :) Section 4.3 This modification is required in order to be able to decompress the RPL Option with the new Option Type of 0x23. nit(?): is it the RPL Option or the entire header that is decompressed? Section 6 - For traffic leaving a RUL, if the RUL adds an opaque RPI then the description of the RAL applies. The 6LR as a RPL border router SHOULD rewrite the RPI to indicate the selected Instance and set the flags. I'm not sure that I fully understand this point (specifically, "the description of the RAL applies"). Similar text also appears in the Security Considerations. Section 8.2.4 There seem to be some changes in the table compared to the -29; were these verified to be correct? Section 12 Also, this applies in the case where the leaf is aware of the RPL instance and passes a correct RPI, the 6LR needs a configuration that allows that leaf to inject in that instance. nit: the second comma should probably be a colon or em dash. From nobody Thu Dec 17 03:26:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E77C3A16F9; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:26:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01nOCON8dKNE; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:25:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ej1-x62e.google.com (mail-ej1-x62e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C08C3A16DF; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ej1-x62e.google.com with SMTP id ga15so37317236ejb.4; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:25:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LYfbME0dxL51z8MrQNQ3ifDFZzBck6pghWPnvF+XIC8=; b=bMYse5BBh/KbQtmzm1K54j+/4lhZrHuh79xy9XMDxw710uYQtWzUhScZw6rv+RDcmN IiIU7a/v9RB7VH+atHEGL8m8Q8VU6/OHFIsjobJA8IaypjkKLjp/3wqPbRrtZat6bYRL x0SNJwvyLsb9wkrleasBCcCS93I6GYx4gGsxUHQ97vdlbfTt/s1jm3ZJK5BuD26dhfts q1+sdrGunIzMjwPP+6rds/Mbva0rb9qljbKeO9s2GJokgz+r7C2/KBtySGG2YSI+NZVb S+Gl1P6OSOKe9UaHyOAtnFVg11IfdFrb80ZXRN01oWyz1AOv7I8uBPvoJQLmuN+kVqj1 cKqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LYfbME0dxL51z8MrQNQ3ifDFZzBck6pghWPnvF+XIC8=; b=LZIyjHusPch2iYeQKufTVWackWYMKKmxYMmZJT84q30XQgupfsQCrFXb0U6/g/KE4J PaEoGyHH4dTS/29ld7JoG6wKCVRssmpqrs5OCR57nmK/aOoyblsDeY0ESs7EiE2sLtxm nRy3VuV5Zm7DpapTZdFihnq/XxH6eOS64vmmdDV3hYQfvYoe1Y+CbAZpDPrP5EOmUsR2 9XYd23gQTSMfeRdoHiWJVCCYMl6nT4dKzhA2SYzi/JhkdvCqSgBW0I0ngAjR8KnP8bb4 M6DAMTcctTPUdcZsft2mzAlyvQmVeudQAgFon3EJxi4V1XBtwvrRt/4cXQDUiI5+/xP9 CRWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533h/rd9m4SNmlMP5W9ho/3rmO2NNCsAqe9U+bDj541qZy3+h287 uXtkqNMqAZQpLDhrRmIV//1zcKvk3hMe1BrLLZJybzIS X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxZByPtA8lwj8KaPy0X5VIi+3rNUAj55uSAPuA5vqEcz1FSvArGUK4nEsld5XaDErwebjClTFMDK5vNk2SBykA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:e247:: with SMTP id gq7mr35988614ejb.27.1608204349495; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:25:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 06:25:48 -0500 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <160819251696.25631.6674390282902636212@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160819251696.25631.6674390282902636212@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 06:25:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: Murray Kucherawy via Datatracker , The IESG , Murray Kucherawy Cc: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, JADHAV Rahul Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 11:26:06 -0000 On December 17, 2020 at 3:08:37 AM, Murray Kucherawy wrote: > The shepherd writeup says "With these reviews and discussions -15 is read= y > for IESG review." But -23 was last called, and this is version -26. Just > checking... is this all still current? Yes, it is. More specifically, given the relationship with UseofRPLInfo (which we ended up pulling off the RFC Editor's queue), the WG worked in some more changes after Publication Requested (-15) -- my AD Evaluation was on -18 -- the comments were addressed and I issued the IETF LC on -23. The changes from there have been in response to LC/IESG Evaluation comments. =C2=A0:-) From nobody Thu Dec 17 04:56:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504EA3A0544; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 04:56:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=PwJloSEp; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=dTYKcozh Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U7NLWx2xaBth; 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Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:56:36 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Erik Kline , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" , "roll@ietf.org" , JADHAV Rahul , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: Erik Kline's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHW0/qvS8SLL1bSk0uDg1JG+qai+qn7JJAw Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:56:10 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:55:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160815766116.17846.998250833815171596@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160815766116.17846.998250833815171596@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2a01:cb1d:4ec:2200:6484:ec00:567c:f3d6] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 66d259a4-f0a6-4d25-74f0-08d8a28b3001 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR1101MB2271: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; 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Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:16:35 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Murray Kucherawy , "Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks" , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Roll] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHW1Evb8S6t1QzcV0OOEJjBhHjuzan7QNMg Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:16:17 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:16:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160819251696.25631.6674390282902636212@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160819251696.25631.6674390282902636212@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2a01:cb1d:4ec:2200:6484:ec00:567c:f3d6] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 47fa1cb3-3494-4f80-dbd0-08d8a28dfb13 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB2061: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 47fa1cb3-3494-4f80-dbd0-08d8a28dfb13 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Dec 2020 13:16:35.8430 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 5K4a9Z0k4LLfThosNu/oeNbTiuW3tciBp/sToFhI4clep0CAVYOEt9j9mHEXDf3tvwGX/MDxEed3lhaQgghQdQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB2061 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.15, xch-rcd-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:16:41 -0000 Hello Murray: Many thanks for your review! I made a pass of cleanup in the terminology. I committed in https://github.com/roll-wg/roll-unaware-leaves/commit/d0eabd= 0af743cf87e028e5886b155e98f597b1a4 (the accidental dup of DAD will be cleaned up before publication). Keep safe; Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Roll On Behalf Of Murray Kucherawy via > Datatracker > Sent: jeudi 17 d=E9cembre 2020 09:09 > To: The IESG > Cc: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org; roll-chairs@ietf.org; roll@i= etf.org > Subject: [Roll] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unawar= e- > leaves-26: (with COMMENT) >=20 > Murray Kucherawy has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all ema= il > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introdu= ctory > paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > The shepherd writeup says "With these reviews and discussions -15 is read= y for > IESG review." But -23 was last called, and this is version -26. Just ch= ecking... is > this all still current? >=20 > Though it is present in the glossary in Section 2.2, I don't see "AR" any= where in > this document. The glossary also needs to be sorted again. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From nobody Thu Dec 17 08:08:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29393A0A26; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 08:08:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.213 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.213 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17e2d3QVqiXT; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 08:08:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C140B3A0A21; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 08:08:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CxcP24Jn5z5wHG; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 17:08:38 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1608221318; bh=xzs8ETDNpDiOslf2ARBi2sHIBWr7jqfQjjIes/Cgpxs=; h=From:Subject:To:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=q8w368aDhreSE+u83jpR+1w92ATDSXLWTX2jKzq7DS0vqXzI64LZ7BY2z3jqi997L 9UsaTzHV1CcVLGmFhVz9Asew+xDW/wxFrYoCqAQNWZmski0HJB3e+gmUdqN38nX02Y HBP468rYVjUSeVf7pDp3MXfhnBqchbxWlyw1g1RPpZ5swqTQhoSqbLrZlI18RdAWga p0mdFZZlHHdBfu5MKbJCQKw/LCSn9mRjdJax/ktIjf/t5+yJBT5BAVKW6bCE8rXRCf vaT0F9/IQiH8ZbEO7fjq/lb0FiuETY/9HQvwt1lE7n1glC2CSi5E453OtoY4PKJUIG /YJNvJvBGiJqQ== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.57]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CxcP23MbyzyR4; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 17:08:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.192.150.210] (10.114.13.245) by exchange-eme6.itn.ftgroup (10.114.13.57) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 17:08:38 +0100 From: Organization: Orange To: "rtg-ads@ietf.org" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , , Message-ID: <27211_1608221318_5FDB8286_27211_31_2_5764bbfa-dbd4-46a4-1fe1-00f4d75268a5@orange.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 17:08:36 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: [10.114.13.245] Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] RtgDir Review: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-23 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 16:08:43 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see ​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-23 Reviewer: Julien Meuric Review Date: 2020-12-17 IETF LC End Date: 2020-12-09 Intended Status: Standards Track *Summary:* I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. *Comments:* I am not an LLN expert, but I find the I-D convenient to read thanks to the appropriate (but numerous) references. I just feel that a few sections deserve some clarification to improve readability and that flag number selection doesn't really follow the expected process. *Major Issues:* No major issues found. *Minor Issues:* - Sorry if ask questions on implicit contexts that are obvious to LLN people, but I am confused in section 3 with that "6LR that acts as a border Router for external routes": does it advertise towards the RPL domain? Does it talk to a peer 6LR that is also a RPL Router? Is that particular router necessarily the RPL Root? - The text in section 6.2, as well as figures 3 and 4, use the F and P flags as if the bit numbers were defined, though their number is only "suggested" in the IANA section. If no early allocation process happened, it is inappropriate to assume the to-be-allocated bit number in the body of the document. - Section 6.3 reduces an 8-bit field to a 6 bit value. It would be worth mentioning that it sounds reasonable because the associated registry relies on standards action for registration and only values up to 10 are currently allocated. Furthermore, is there an update of that 6-bit space split to map the previous ranges? If the answer lies in the IANA section, then a few words would be welcome in section 6. *Nits:* ------ Overall --- - RPL-[An]aware, RAL and RUL are preceded most of the times by "a" [OK if pronounced "riple", "ral", "rul"], but sometimes by "an" ["are pi..."]: please pick one and be consistent. - Any reason why "Host", "Hop" and "Router" are often written with a capital H/R? - RFC 2119 keywords SHOULD be used more often for an IETF standard track, it sometimes feels that the text is written to circumvent them. E.g., section 4.2.1 uses a wording based on "requires... if and only if..."; section 4.3 describes a behavior without any normative keyword; section 5.1 says "needs to", "is expected not to", "is suggested to"; etc. ------ Section 1. --- - The phrase "terminate packets" feels odd: is "terminate paths" intended? - s/expectations/requirements/ - The term "change" is used several times in the section summary though it is a bit loose: depending on the situation, "modify" or "extend" would be more specific (the former may impact existing implementations, the latter does not). -  OLD       Section 8 presents the changes made to [RFC6775] and [RFC8505];       The range of the ND status codes is reduced down to 64 values, and       the remaining bits in the original status field are now reserved.   NEW       Section 8 presents how [RFC6775] and [RFC8505] are used; the       range of the ND status codes is narrowed down to 64 values, and       the unused bits are reserved. ------ Section 2. --- - s/Neighbor solicitation/Neighbor Solicitation/ - s/Information solicitation (DIS)/Information Solicitation (DIS)/ ------ Section 3. --- - s/The RPL Root tunnels the packets/The RPL Root tunnels data packets/  [unless we're talking about control packet] - s/forwards the original (inner) packet/forwards original (inner) packets/ ------ Section 4. --- - s/Neighbor solicitation (NS)/Neighbor Solicitation (NS)/ - s/6LN functionality in [RFC8505]/6LN functionality from [RFC8505]/ - Section 4.2.3 summarizes the main use case of the ROVR though its use here is a bit different: why not focus the paragraph on the latest sentence and bring a correct topic balance into the section? ------ Section 5. --- - s/with a CIO/with a 6CIO/ - s/the Root terminates the IP-in-IP tunnel at the parent 6LR/the IP-in-IP tunnel from the Root terminates at the parent 6LR/ ------ Section 6. --- - s/between the 6LR and the RPL Root/between the RPL Root and the 6LR/ - s/encodes it in one of these reserved flags of the RPL DODAG configuration option/allocates a new one in the RPL DODAG configuration option/ - s/values zero (0) to six (6)/values from zero (0) to six (6)/ ------ Section 7. --- - The section title should point to the draft title ("Efficient Route Invalidation") rather than the draft name which will be replaced by an RFC number at publication time. - s/hop by hop/hop-by-hop/ ------ Section 8. --- - Spacing inconsistency on the section title. ------ Section 9. --- - In section 9.2.2, the capital T is missing on "the" for steps 4 and 5. - s/Lifetime. e.g./Lifetime. E.g./ - s/6LoWPAN ND related reasons/6LoWPAN ND-related reasons/ - s/An error injecting the route/An error when injecting the route/ - In section 9.2.3, the capital T is missing on "the" for steps 2 and 3. ------ Section 11. --- - s/supporting th extension/supporting the extension/ ------ Section 12. --- - s/doesn't/does not/ ------ Regards, Julien _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. 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From nobody Thu Dec 17 10:14:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745FD3A0E6D for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 10:14:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vOCqsCFEH37e for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 10:14:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 504173A0E4D for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 10:14:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91840389AC; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:17:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 3aKChAyUcvKg; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:17:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FCC389A8; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:17:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01C411B4; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:14:28 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Erik Kline , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: References: <160809761379.22994.11202105892505044046@ietfa.amsl.com> <9337.1608141694@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Erik Kline's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 18:14:34 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Erik Kline wrote: > I guess, one way to look at it would be: for any given node, receivin= g a > packet with an RH3 and segments left > 0, does the discussion here ch= ange > anything? If the node is part of nested layers of networking it migh= t do > what it's configured to do, and if it's a plain vanilla host it should > reject the packet. I think that Pascal might have had some extension in mind when he wrote the "inspected" part. Part of the reason for useofrplinfo was to make sure that we actually understood all of the cases, and there were some surprises among a few, and that partly led to unaware-leaves being written. so, we'll stick with "consumed" =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl/boAQACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWflAf/feBxCvV92OMzebOxi2EyVtpWm2wh3Nqhww3FHGHLcWJRmxeg2KMx1+bR E9GCjSOsxfiyRiPfgoBMUdj7m3+S1hAcpeClY5uXWY2F7GtmrNBu2uNO7iUhtyRY hyrJsiL8g8qymzQ2yVvP1m1d1XtZQCMmwLl9e9O+XvWcK7CbInPpwj0C49yq0laj grZWfXmbd9MaIQRfJ76Bz/kF5vvlppbT1ICxSflM15Ma9UZY1KVJQu5PAqJln9d4 +NTPd6qHcH55BBstfSA6/De9GMRAsbkStd8KYuTl4tbbcGuKO1hrWmqfTFQyUCPq TuFSpLKxsRgavqVXoaGTkeZhiBOAxg== =V4ua -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Dec 17 10:57:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC043A0E89; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 10:56:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <160823141879.15097.4721669410023121285@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 10:56:58 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-27.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 18:56:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : Routing for RPL Leaves Authors : Pascal Thubert Michael C. Richardson Filename : draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-27.txt Pages : 42 Date : 2020-12-17 Abstract: This specification updates RFC6550, RFC6775, and RFC8505. It provides a mechanism for a host that implements a routing-agnostic interface based on 6LoWPAN Neighbor Discovery to obtain reachability services across a network that leverages RFC6550 for its routing operations. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-27.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-27 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Dec 17 11:01:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08FA3A0EA4; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 11:01:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=mSsDpa9Y; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=inlDS4Xn Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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(2603:10b6:303:91::20) by MW3PR11MB4634.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:54::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3654.20; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 19:01:06 +0000 Received: from CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499:4510:59d6:8f61]) by CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499:4510:59d6:8f61%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3654.020; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 19:01:06 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Benjamin Kaduk , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHW1FARjEwkqRVfokmZNciXrtiuJ6n7QA9w Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 19:00:40 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 18:59:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160819432500.25662.694953130654522537@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: 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bGQNCiAgICBvciB0byByZXdyaXRlIHRoZSBSUEkgcHJvdmlkZWQgYnkgdGhlIFJVTCwgaW4gYSBz aXR1YXRpb24gd2hlcmUgdGhlDQogICAgbmV0d29yayBhZG1pbmlzdHJhdG9yIGZpbmRzIGl0IHJl bGV2YW50Lg0KIg0KSSBob3BlIHRoYXQgc29ydHMgaXQgb3V0LCBidXQgd2UgY2FuIGhhdmUgYW5v dGhlciByb3VuZC4NCg0KQXMgdXN1YWwgbm93LCBtYW55IHRoYW5rcyBmb3IgeW91ciBpbmNyZWRp YmxlIHJldmlldy4gSSdtIGxlYXJuaW5nIGEgbG90Lg0KDQpUYWtlIGNhcmUsIGFuZCBlbmpveSB0 aGUgYnJlYWshDQoNClBhc2NhbA0K From nobody Thu Dec 17 11:48:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483933A0F0C; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 11:48:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks cc: Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG , "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves\@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <160819432500.25662.694953130654522537@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 19:48:34 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable About how to mark MOP=3D7 Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) wrote: > I have (plenty of) coffee, it's early afternoon, I had (almost) no red > wine at lunch... I'm ready for your review comments : ) : ) I'm thinking that there is a market for caffeinated red wine. Maybe that's already covered by Redbull+Vodka for some. bk> I still feel that if we're going to incrementally add new propertie= s to MOP 7, we bk> should list the relevant documents as references in the registry un= til MOP 7 is bk> fully specified. In this case we can arguably get away with not do= ing so since this bk> document Updates: RFC 6550 already and thus could be said to be doi= ng the bk> reservation by modification of the core protocol, but we are not us= ing that bk> procedure universally (e.g., for turnon-rfc8138) and it seems prude= nt to use a bk> consistent mechanism. > Yes, we have a github page for that, see > https://github.com/roll-wg/RPLv2; I added your concern above in there. But, Ben is suggested that turnon-rfc8138, unaware-leaves and useofrpinfo should all be listed under IANA MOP=3D7 until we actually publish RFC6550 and/or mopex/capex. Ben, I hadn't thought of that, and I like it. How do we do this? >> A RUL is not expected to support the compression method defined in >> [RFC8138]. For that reason, the border router uncompresses the >> packet before forwarding it over an external route to a RUL >> [USEofRPLinfo]. >> >> Just to confirm: the "border router" here is not the 6LBR but rather= a "normal" >> 6LR (i.e., an "RPL border router")? > Yes; I changed to " the border router (the 6LR here)". Since we now > have external routes, we now have a southern border as well. Yeah, so we have international (EGP) borders, and we have municipal (IGP/ND= ) borders. But, even EGP/IGP are really inaccurate terms, since the 6LBR could well sp= eak OSPFv3, to the rest of the Enterprise. I wonder if the RTG-area group might want = to suggest some new terms here for us. >> message are taken from the Transaction ID and the Address >> Registration lifetime in the NS(EARO) message from the 6LN. >> >> Reusing an identifier taken from one context in one protocol to play= a role in a >> different context in a different protocol has historically led to se= curity-relevant >> flaws/attacks. What kind of analysis has been done to consider the = risk of such >> issues here? > None. I have no idea what opening this creates. > All I can say is that as opposed maybe to your examples, the TID was > designed to be mapped onto RPL from the beginning and to mean the same > thing. > If you look at the text in RFC 8505 for the TID: It is the verbatim > copy of the text for the Path Sequence in RPL. It's easier to drive > when you know where's you're going =F0=9F=98=8A. For the lifetime, we= had to go > through a translation. These are identifiers at the ICMPv6/"ND" level. It might be important to recognize that RPL control messages live inside IP= v6 ICMPv6. So they are alongside ND messages as well. The typical case where the identifier problem occurs has been for things th= at received different kinds of protection. I feel confident that it's okay. =2D- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl/btgwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUVfgf/XTwTj78RE6qJAdcW8Jqt+xjp/jOViW4gjJdX0EvHs9BJa9rXdKQEduFM kKebG04H7+IAHYqWdXKoAGo02GWjWW4kfxxmQJ2kRivJGEAiC2qe2oRbkIcpCWRM WUJ4s2aYXE9wZp500JaT0JNWkk80KJcKiNW2uCWEGcyT3p/6ZbDiUr1+ed73qL+m 3yCHNbi93hvlIrKvWQfb6E3gJP/f+fx69qlGPnmh1w7daGbPgCY8nIq62DImAuiv oT1Q7xyejveuR5v+KTmLxwYfSZ9+tOQZFpQIRTh3XyyBlUR8bNAE/s9y68IJHK4+ SqVbEwH40lANIsCkev3nysOjx56Ibg== =8+xr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Dec 17 12:09:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9CA53A0FC7; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:09:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V_PpsX_a_Jil; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ej1-x633.google.com (mail-ej1-x633.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::633]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 244DA3A0FBF; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ej1-x633.google.com with SMTP id d17so39738561ejy.9; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:09:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=f/ZS7+qCvfk+d3yQGfQv03/zl3MnVxef+1Ygn0jX0MA=; b=eBzObY+Xr/k3yFvEXO9yI8zBf2x5PVpTaYmxCOY44EwIVdp9SyzIpzf1aNoRGyWM6Z /opujfnldHAIK8Z0Kh1DDlmFRammCpqjfKafCv/5qciNvZ7waBrht/eaP2TKztsQqTdo /Xqb3TtkU4f2M0RnJfS2barXWFhG2kKnLfDmBx34aT4nE45oXyulDBbe78qoo499Zy8+ fp+bjgDnRqOqgxC+gz937I2NgqUYYejBFMGc0dpoPlR73fdZ+cdFyEJAWrFj2FNshPbp Szvkvlj36y3k4A+FaVEx8KONC7tPFYBFI+ZgTW1fLF7nM39h24EYnDuQiflgMYQpnfE2 cB/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=f/ZS7+qCvfk+d3yQGfQv03/zl3MnVxef+1Ygn0jX0MA=; b=b1K6MeXbOAz5ca3mx9uUzeq6l4DtPyKqpL5kRKjICAvcCyOiCgObtRbtwdZCqE99T4 BM062PJDJvicyTKlrHUCHOrX7KM6hRuDQSXlaXS87L/DL0pVvA5+HVy/vO1me3sl2RdW qn4Cx6IoNlRLd3a+OXobHyIp8cnYcBvgfdRfJUT+S7mJGfDNgqoWXjI5mhaQx3FPvu1J BkRELPhqKVOQkDM0GLXA+McRj5sQ/ZNm3DPb4Lln16GeNK9ODFLciayVc9q/IM6c/4bd +OAtkmb/v5cfFM4PZdwzv29kHP2vKPCXlE4XG5sPAgEDamCDQDT67yRYf9LPi+vdVwk0 wa9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5318Ol026gsRku4qGIoQqzLSadt5n1zQSsl9lnPCiCr92rDODf9p c71iP/5RbDpgUK+RJbo4+nvruj+zNEAquQsWIs1bwor7 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxayLRifrHW1I6xpNELOm5oj0u4y2CE2Wigndc0DeFD0iyf5pTAEA2aGiWgnVPHxyjCMxwInP1GW+6HZZu7Lvk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3f93:: with SMTP id hr19mr700357ejc.235.1608235771375; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:09:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:09:30 -0500 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <16278.1608234508@localhost> References: <160819432500.25662.694953130654522537@ietfa.amsl.com> <16278.1608234508@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:09:30 -0500 Message-ID: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , Michael Richardson Cc: "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" , Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000de35d505b6ae91ff" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 20:09:35 -0000 --000000000000de35d505b6ae91ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! FWIW, I don=E2=80=99t have a problem with listing all as references in the registry. We just need to remember to do it if there=E2=80=99s another dra= ft that does something similar, which we probably will when we go back to look at the registry. To do it can be as simple as requesting IANA to add additional references to MOP 7 in the registry. Alvaro. On December 17, 2020 at 2:48:41 PM, Michael Richardson ( mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca) wrote: About how to mark MOP=3D7 Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) wrote: > I have (plenty of) coffee, it's early afternoon, I had (almost) no red > wine at lunch... I'm ready for your review comments : ) : ) I'm thinking that there is a market for caffeinated red wine. Maybe that's already covered by Redbull+Vodka for some. bk> I still feel that if we're going to incrementally add new properties to MOP 7, we bk> should list the relevant documents as references in the registry until MOP 7 is bk> fully specified. In this case we can arguably get away with not doing so since this bk> document Updates: RFC 6550 already and thus could be said to be doing the bk> reservation by modification of the core protocol, but we are not using that bk> procedure universally (e.g., for turnon-rfc8138) and it seems prudent to use a bk> consistent mechanism. > Yes, we have a github page for that, see > https://github.com/roll-wg/RPLv2; I added your concern above in there. But, Ben is suggested that turnon-rfc8138, unaware-leaves and useofrpinfo should all be listed under IANA MOP=3D7 until we actually publish RFC6550 and/or mopex/capex. Ben, I hadn't thought of that, and I like it. How do we do this? --000000000000de35d505b6ae91ff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Hi!

FWIW, I don=E2=80=99t have a problem with listing all as refere= nces in the registry.=C2=A0 We just need to remember to do it if there=E2= =80=99s another draft that does something similar, which we probably will w= hen we go back to look at the registry.


To do it can be as simple as requesting IANA to add additiona= l references to MOP 7 in the registry.

Alvaro.

On December 1= 7, 2020 at 2:48:41 PM, Michael Richardson (mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca) wrote:


About how to mark MOP=3D7

Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) <pthubert=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> I have (plenty of) coffee, it's early afternoon, I had (al= most) no red
> wine at lunch... I'm ready for your review comments : ) : = )

I'm thinking that there is a market for caffeinated red wine.
Maybe that's already covered by Redbull+Vodka for some.

bk> I still feel that if we're going to incrementally add ne= w properties to MOP 7, we
bk> should list the relevant documents as references in the regi= stry until MOP 7 is
bk> fully specified. In this case we can arguably get away with= not doing so since this
bk> document Updates: RFC 6550 already and thus could be said to= be doing the
bk> reservation by modification of the core protocol, but we are= not using that
bk> procedure universally (e.g., for turnon-rfc8138) and it seem= s prudent to use a
bk> consistent mechanism.

> Yes, we have a github page for that, see
> https://github.co= m/roll-wg/RPLv2; I added your concern above in there.

But, Ben is suggested that turnon-rfc8138, unaware-leaves and useofrpin= fo
should all be listed under IANA MOP=3D7 until we actually publish RFC65= 50
and/or mopex/capex.

Ben, I hadn't thought of that, and I like it.
How do we do this?
--000000000000de35d505b6ae91ff-- From nobody Thu Dec 17 12:16:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F30B3A0FEA; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:16:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5OV6lsqvOZQ4; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0D533A0FE8; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0BHKGPYI006394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:16:30 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 12:16:25 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Alvaro Retana Cc: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , Michael Richardson , "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG Message-ID: <20201217201625.GW64351@kduck.mit.edu> References: <160819432500.25662.694953130654522537@ietfa.amsl.com> <16278.1608234508@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 20:16:37 -0000 On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 03:09:30PM -0500, Alvaro Retana wrote: > Hi! > > FWIW, I don’t have a problem with listing all as references in the > registry. We just need to remember to do it if there’s another draft that > does something similar, which we probably will when we go back to look at > the registry. Listing the references in the registry has been my preferred option since we started talking about it for -turnon-rfc8138 ... I must have not expressed myself well at that time, but I'm happy that it's gaining traction now. And I don't see any significant issues with having a large number of references for the row in the registry (until it has a proper spec). > > To do it can be as simple as requesting IANA to add additional references > to MOP 7 in the registry. That's my sense, too. Thanks, Ben > On December 17, 2020 at 2:48:41 PM, Michael Richardson ( > mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca) wrote: > > > About how to mark MOP=7 > > Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) wrote: > > I have (plenty of) coffee, it's early afternoon, I had (almost) no red > > wine at lunch... I'm ready for your review comments : ) : ) > > I'm thinking that there is a market for caffeinated red wine. > Maybe that's already covered by Redbull+Vodka for some. > > bk> I still feel that if we're going to incrementally add new properties to > MOP 7, we > bk> should list the relevant documents as references in the registry until > MOP 7 is > bk> fully specified. In this case we can arguably get away with not doing > so since this > bk> document Updates: RFC 6550 already and thus could be said to be doing > the > bk> reservation by modification of the core protocol, but we are not using > that > bk> procedure universally (e.g., for turnon-rfc8138) and it seems prudent > to use a > bk> consistent mechanism. > > > Yes, we have a github page for that, see > > https://github.com/roll-wg/RPLv2; I added your concern above in there. > > But, Ben is suggested that turnon-rfc8138, unaware-leaves and useofrpinfo > should all be listed under IANA MOP=7 until we actually publish RFC6550 > and/or mopex/capex. > > Ben, I hadn't thought of that, and I like it. > How do we do this? From nobody Thu Dec 17 13:18:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3633A1016; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:18:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gNFfTEgnRpzy; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AB953A1012; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:18:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1293389AE; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 16:21:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id ku1iZp31IeN8; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 16:21:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404D4389AD; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 16:21:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3251D7C; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 16:18:32 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Alvaro Retana cc: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves\@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs\@ietf.org" , Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG In-Reply-To: References: <160819432500.25662.694953130654522537@ietfa.amsl.com> <16278.1608234508@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 21:18:38 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alvaro Retana wrote: > To do it can be as simple as requesting IANA to add additional refere= nces > to MOP 7 in the registry. So, it goes into the IANA Considerations for all three documents? Or, into useofrplinfo only, where we reserved it? Or, is it just an IESG request to IANA? =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl/byycACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUaBQf6AoPykV9PN+oPdX0iefRuxEo/a3zvC8GHUKIFk53ujzU6JsD1vKxg8gaX wll8Ls6p55vNVbEm+DvC6SyQndF8HCyuLFJu7hXsKid5r29a7Vta8tuGhIV1IobD yntFof49B2liKhVbsxi+Sg5kMD+J9QMHcYf+Yj9c869yDaauOOc6uRibDHo9pJ0g qXXBm0AjSPoMpHniCWOHa6fIcbScspyyITKiR8whekGSr3RtcMRq1+z+SZkgI2x9 jfTHVhF8Y3LTgPcSloZAXfls5H6FPrdhihrOfS5jG+H7KF0xLLZ+WfGA8//hqhh2 2XzU88cJS5hhDh7+RCcfOhMNnEzMjQ== =qkTP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Dec 17 13:40:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B774C3A1044; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:40:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NxawW41vZHny; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA66C3A07EA; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:40:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id dk8so256344edb.1; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:40:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UqPVBN1n7oNk6rTLCTkkWkOo1MI83bTgpawb6S92Ytw=; b=WxcavgcVSjJ+zUUQB9Gao7ZZAXyW27Jjul2vTGlTAO+zg5IjHH/1YJgxoUzxrl5uRf xcNu2a29BVJu/l6Z++whxRiBWq8fKlCNCZkYRGYo1Z0Hm9C9lhmQphMV7H+h/fgcVDpj xjYFrbR3KjAT6a9KIPkBF7v8CTcvRQ7/nhk86aBHviBgYfQXOOmUkKZ8eVFg1Wvv/Gn3 +2gurDywgk/LoWW0JeiWZy2Osy7Hss7xUj1Al5XSzApALOz0u3MqJTyjLiyGHSTvW6+4 ioJW1T6insJ/FK9OZDR/C+vEUqC/7Mwd/r2hS7DZ5+X1w6hpbKe+PqMcqD0EIDOJEDzx 66DQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UqPVBN1n7oNk6rTLCTkkWkOo1MI83bTgpawb6S92Ytw=; b=GtnInP/zqjp9AseL3e41KamisLvZHp/YR8K4GdbGkymZHMYoKJ+D2FYalVA1WtF1v5 FcuP7rNMOxmTWFvPoZv6No3FF6UAkp/2KILQ6RpAXSPS4gU1TONj9nJK8pjjaQPVkI3Y iIpV552CUatrwSnNDTYJ8qfk1YRGuU8FIVyjGQbFeNptvGrVkUe7Ge3rnDaObfXYL61z zZ0y01rjIkuVq2pk9j8RhI5GOjvnlgO/V7mDs14KVZ7Ibvzlx+sf9X5iQZ3eZ0/AY0dI pGGkEiaYsAvTtWkz01Sh6exgThnx6xTB5YIClgW3bM29vCZZ3vu2yE3RCtM5fiwF1Y9H 62aA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ZKrQy9V+qDnQ+IyP65efrSoB4mgW1QoA5CFOYQbwsFfHr81ib qgJTFXKFnQ1ktj/Rr90MZrE46EsaRIerr5UWG1M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzXW3CpNWguwfowCCBXv/rgT9014/OVYtNd7KpXCiDUKVW29SEEsvnZBcvEiEggmLtMSTtolVNK4qabuEDDf60= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:687:: with SMTP id f7mr1405962edy.314.1608241203679; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:40:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 16:40:02 -0500 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <13207.1608239912@localhost> References: <160819432500.25662.694953130654522537@ietfa.amsl.com> <16278.1608234508@localhost> <13207.1608239912@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 16:40:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org" , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" , Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8967105b6afd5c9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 21:40:13 -0000 --000000000000a8967105b6afd5c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let=E2=80=99s do it in each document where a behavior is specified for MOP = 7. That way it remains consistent in case there=E2=80=99s something else in the fut= ure. Thanks! Alvaro. On December 17, 2020 at 4:18:33 PM, Michael Richardson ( mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca) wrote: Alvaro Retana wrote: > To do it can be as simple as requesting IANA to add additional references > to MOP 7 in the registry. So, it goes into the IANA Considerations for all three documents? Or, into useofrplinfo only, where we reserved it? Or, is it just an IESG request to IANA? --=20 Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulting= ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --000000000000a8967105b6afd5c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Let=E2=80=99s do it in each document where a beh= avior is specified for MOP 7.=C2=A0 That way it remains consistent in case = there=E2=80=99s something else in the future.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

On December 17, 2= 020 at 4:18:33 PM, Michael Richardson (mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca) wrote:


Alvaro Retana <aretana.iet= f@gmail.com> wrote:
> To do it can be as simple as requesting IANA to add additional= references
> to MOP 7 in the registry.

So, it goes into the IANA Considerations for all three documents?
Or, into useofrplinfo only, where we reserved it?
Or, is it just an IESG request to IANA?

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+I= ETF@sandelman.ca> . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulting )
Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
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(2603:10b6:303:91::20) by CO1PR11MB4884.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:6c::13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3676.25; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:06:37 +0000 Received: from CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499:4510:59d6:8f61]) by CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499:4510:59d6:8f61%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3654.020; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:06:37 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Barry Leiba , "Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks" , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Roll] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHW1CvkB5WZ9MC8E0OkLDw8MyrrGan8oYvQ Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:06:26 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:06:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160817878823.24133.7575260683414956662@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: 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draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 12:42:32 -0000 --000000000000ec8a6c05b6bc7097 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the IANA Considerations section: IANA is requested to add [this document] as a reference for MOP 7 in the RPL Mode of Operation registry. All documents that define a MOP 7 behavior should have that sentence. Only UseofRPLInfo will have the extra text about reserving 7. From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) Date: December 18, 2020 at 3:54:10 AM To: Alvaro Retana , Michae= l Richardson CC: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , roll-chairs@ietf.org , Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG Subject: RE: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) Thanks! Alvaro. > Dear all: > > > > Sorry I failed to compute that the registry that Benjamin referred to was > the IANA one. > > I see that it can be useful there and will be happy to do whatever change > that helps in the future. > > Let us agree on a sentence/section to add in the drafts. Suggestions > appreciated : ) > > > > You all keep safe, and let us enjoy the break, and for the lucky of us in > these troubled times, with our families; > > > > Pascal > > > > *From:* Alvaro Retana > *Sent:* jeudi 17 d=C3=A9cembre 2020 22:40 > *To:* Michael Richardson > *Cc:* draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org; Routing Over Low power and > Lossy networks ; roll-chairs@ietf.org; Benjamin Kaduk < > kaduk@mit.edu>; The IESG > *Subject:* Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on > draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) > > > > Let=E2=80=99s do it in each document where a behavior is specified for MO= P 7. > That way it remains consistent in case there=E2=80=99s something else in = the future. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Alvaro. > > > > On December 17, 2020 at 4:18:33 PM, Michael Richardson ( > mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca) wrote: > > > Alvaro Retana wrote: > > To do it can be as simple as requesting IANA to add additional > references > > to MOP 7 in the registry. > > So, it goes into the IANA Considerations for all three documents? > Or, into useofrplinfo only, where we reserved it? > Or, is it just an IESG request to IANA? > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > --000000000000ec8a6c05b6bc7097 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the IANA Considerations =C2=A0section:

=
IANA is requested to add [this document] as a reference for MOP = 7 in the RPL Mode of Operation registry.


All documents that define a MOP 7 behavior should have that sentence.= =C2=A0 Only UseofRPLInfo will have the extra text about reserving 7.
<= div>

From:=C2=A0Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <= a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com"><pthubert@cisco.com>
Date= :=C2=A0December 18, 2020 at 3:54:10 AMTo:=C2=A0Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
CC:=C2=A0draft-ie= tf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org <draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org><= /a>, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks<= /span> <roll@ietf.org>, roll-chairs@iet= f.org <roll-chairs@ie= tf.org>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>= ;
Subject:=C2=A0 RE: [Roll] Benjamin Kad= uk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT)
Thanks!=

Alvaro.

Dear all:

=C2=A0

Sorry I failed to compute that the registry that Benjamin re= ferred to was the IANA one.

I see that it can be useful there and will be happy to do wh= atever change that helps in the future.

Let us agree on a sentence/section to add in the drafts. Sug= gestions appreciated : )

=C2=A0

You all keep safe, and let us enjoy the break, and for the l= ucky of us in these troubled times, with our families;

=C2=A0

Pascal

=C2=A0

From: Alvaro Retana &l= t;aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: jeudi 17 d=C3=A9cembre= 2020 22:40
To: Michael Richardson <<= a href=3D"mailto:mcr%2Bietf@sandelman.ca">mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org<= /a>; Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>; rol= l-chairs@ietf.org; Benjamin Kaduk <= kaduk@mit.edu>; The IESG <iesg@i= etf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin= Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMME= NT)

=C2=A0

Let=E2=80=99s= do it in each document where a behavior is specified for MOP 7.=C2=A0 That= way it remains consistent in case there=E2=80=99s something else in the future.

=C2=A0=

Thanks!

=C2=A0=

Alvaro.

=C2=A0=

On December 1= 7, 2020 at 4:18:33 PM, Michael Richardson (mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca) wrote:


Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gm= ail.com> wrote:
> To do it can be as simple as requesting IANA to add additional referen= ces
> to MOP 7 in the registry.

So, it goes into the IANA Considerations for all three documents?
Or, into useofrplinfo only, where we reserved it?
Or, is it just an IESG request to IANA?

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@= sandelman.ca> . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulting )
Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide


--000000000000ec8a6c05b6bc7097-- From nobody Fri Dec 18 05:53:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 914D33A0822; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 05:52:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <160829957454.4726.18401535256366078827@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 05:52:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138-18.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 13:52:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : A RPL DODAG Configuration Option for the 6LoWPAN Routing Header Authors : Pascal Thubert Li Zhao Filename : draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138-18.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2020-12-18 Abstract: This document updates RFC 8138 by defining a bit in the RPL DODAG Configuration Option to indicate whether compression is used within the RPL Instance, and specify the behavior of RFC 8138-capable nodes when the bit is set and unset. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138-18.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138-18 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Dec 18 06:08:11 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D803A0100; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 06:08:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <160830048643.4715.14163664133422457600@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 06:08:06 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-28.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 14:08:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : Routing for RPL Leaves Authors : Pascal Thubert Michael C. Richardson Filename : draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-28.txt Pages : 43 Date : 2020-12-18 Abstract: This specification updates RFC6550, RFC6775, and RFC8505. It provides a mechanism for a host that implements a routing-agnostic interface based on 6LoWPAN Neighbor Discovery to obtain reachability services across a network that leverages RFC6550 for its routing operations. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-28.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-28 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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15.20.3654.029; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 15:42:02 +0000 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , Erik Kline Thread-Topic: [Roll] Erik Kline's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-42: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHW09WV3UedLJ2Hp0S5QYwARAUovqn8/50g Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 15:41:39 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 15:41:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160809761379.22994.11202105892505044046@ietfa.amsl.com> <9337.1608141694@localhost> In-Reply-To: <9337.1608141694@localhost> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2a01:cb1d:4ec:2200:2830:18e7:5321:bf78] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1f749ddb-c749-49d3-39c3-08d8a36b76e9 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CO1PR11MB4930: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: 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cHBvc2Ugc2hvdWxkIGhhdmUNCj4gICAgID4gcGlja2VkIHVwIG9uIHRoaXMgdGVybWlub2xvZ3kg d2hlbiBpdCB3YXMgZmlyc3QgdXNlZCBpbiBTZWN0aW9uIDIuDQo+ICAgICA+IE1heWJlIGNsYXJp Znkgd2hhdCBpdCBtZWFucyBpbiB0aGF0IHNlY3Rpb24gKDIpPw0KPiANCj4gWWVzLg0KDQoNCkNv b2wsIHdlJ3JlIGdvb2QhDQoNClBhc2NhbA0K From nobody Sat Dec 19 23:01:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCFE73A0B68; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 23:01:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V6bFZI3dNNBH; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 23:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7D0A3A0B17; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 23:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0BK71FvO003271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 20 Dec 2020 02:01:20 -0500 Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2020 23:01:15 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" Cc: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , The IESG , "draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves@ietf.org" , "roll-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20201220070115.GA64351@kduck.mit.edu> References: <160819432500.25662.694953130654522537@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2020 07:01:31 -0000 Hi Pascal, On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 07:00:40PM +0000, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Hello again Benjamin. > > I have (plenty of) coffee, it's early afternoon, I had (almost) no red wine at lunch... I'm ready for your review comments : ) : ) I am ... not so well prepared. Hopefully it goes okay; yours seems to have been successful :) > As usual I committed my run in github , https://github.com/roll-wg/roll-unaware-leaves/commit/b5846736dc41da21ab89261949b31edecbea64d4 > > I published 27 so that the next reviewers may benefit from the changes. > The diffs are: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-27 > > Let's go for the details ! > > First and as usual, a great many thanks for the depth and thoroughness of your review; please see below: > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Thanks to Carl Wallace for the secdir review, and to the authors for having > > addressed the review comments. > > > > There's a lot of updates in this document of various sorts, and it's a bit > > challenging to reason about all of them, especially with respect to feature > > negotiation/incremental deployment. This will be a recurring theme in my > > detailed comments. My current understanding so far is: > > > > - there is not currently any support for RULs, so we don't really need > > to worry about existing RULs that do not comply with this spec (though > > this spec does add a couple new requirements not present with the > > stock versions of 6LoWPAN ND, etc.) > > Correct > > > - If the RPL Root doesn't support this, it can't be used > > There's a subtlety that the root can support the external route but not the proxy DAR operation. > The support of external route only is governed by useofrplinfo. > Otherwise, if a legacy Root is not deterred by the larger RPL Target Option, it should be fine. > > But better safe then sorry I added in the intro: > " > > This specification can be deployed incrementally in a network that > implements [USEofRPLinfo]. Only the Root and the 6LRs that connect > the RULs need to be upgraded. The RPL routers on path will only see > unicast IPv6 traffic between the Root and the 6LR. > " > > > - the RPL Root advertises its support via the 'P' flag in the DODAG > > Again that's the Proxy thingy I guess the §6.2 text about "set to 1 to indicate that the Root performs the proxy operation, which implies that it supports this specification and the updated RPL Target Option" made me think it was supposed to be a broader indication than just strictly support for the proxying. > > Configuration Option that is sent to all 6LRs > > Yes, flooded unchanged in the DIO > > > - Many message flows require the support of a 6LR to initiate them > > Yes > > > - but there seem to be some cases where there are asynchronous messages > > originating from the root (or 6LBR) ... can they end up at a 6LR that > > does not support the new structures? > > The new message is the Non-storing DCO. The EDAR is controlled by RFC 8505 that the 6LR supports. > The average RPL Joe's behavior is governed by RFC 6550 section 6: > > " > If a node receives a RPL control message with an unknown Code field, > the node MUST discard the message without any further processing, MAY > raise a management alert, and MUST NOT send any messages in response. > " > > But that would be accidental. The DCO is triggered by a non-storing DAO with the 'E' flag. > This becomes possible with useofrplinfo along, but I have no knowledge that anyone tried it at home. And we think it's unlikely that someone ten years from now would feel like doing useofrplinfo but not do this one. I'm failing to come up with anything useful to say to give a reader of this document a warning about that (presumably the previous bit about "only the root and 6LRs that connect to RULs" will suffice). > > - The RPL Root can now proxy EDAR/EDAC ... but can a 6LR "miss the memo" > > for that and also attempt EDAR? (IIUC, "no", since such a 6LR > > wouldn't know about RULs in the first place.) > > That's useless but BAU for the 6LBR which will answer both. > This situation exists in RFC 8505 if a 6LN registers to several 6LRs; all of them do the EDAR/EDAC exchange. It does sound like business as usual for the 6LBR, and if you care about the overhead of the extra traffic you will presumably notice it happening. > > > - Some of the new mechanisms (e.g., suppression of periodic EDAR in > > favor of DAO and proxying by the RPL Root) are not limited to use by > > RULs (?) and thus could be triggered on behalf of nodes not expecting > > such services (?) > > You're right, this is useful in any non-storing mode situation, including RAN, and not just for external host routes. > I'm happy to extend to that but then we need control. Let me add a flag to control this in the Target Option. I'm also happy to see this extended and have the control flag. I do wonder a bit if this is a somewhat big change to make at IESG Evaluation time, and hope that we can get eyes on it from others in the WG. > This impacts the 1) Target option format, 2) the IANA section, and the 3) description of the behavior of the 6LR and Root, and in subsections of 9.2. > > Proposed updates: > > For 1) in Section 6.1 > " > X: 1-bit flag. Set to 1 to request that the Root performs a proxy > EDAR/EDAC exchange. The 'X' flag can only be set to 1 if the > DODAG is operating in Non-Storing Mode and if the Root sets the > "Root Proxies EDAR/EDAC (P)" flag to 1 in the DODAG Configuration > Option, see Section 6.2. The 'X' flag can be set for host routes > to RULs and RANs; it can also be set for internal prefix routes if > the 'F' flag is set, using the node's address in the Target Prefix > field to form the EDAR, but it cannot be used otherwise. > > " > > For 2) in Section 12.4 > " > > Section 6.1 also defines 2 new entries in the Registry as follows: > > +---------------+--------------------------------+-----------+ > | Bit Number | Capability Description | Reference | > +---------------+--------------------------------+-----------+ > | 0 (suggested) | Advertiser address in Full (F) | THIS RFC | > +---------------+--------------------------------+-----------+ > | 1 (suggested) | Proxy EDAR Requested (X) | THIS RFC | > +---------------+--------------------------------+-----------+ > > Table 3: RPL Target Option Registry > " > > In Fig 7 the X flag is set to 0 on the first exchange, that's actually cleaner: > > " > > > 6LN/RUL 6LR <6LR*> Root 6LBR > |<---Using ND--->|<--Using RPL->|<-----Using ND---->| > | |<-----------Using ND------------->| > | | | | > | NS(EARO) | | | > |--------------->| | > | | EDAR | > | |--------------------------------->| > | | | > | | EDAC | > | |<---------------------------------| > | | | > | | DAO(X=0) | | > | |------------->| | > | | | > | | DAO-ACK | | > | |<-------------| | > | NA(EARO) | | | > |<---------------| | | > | | | | > > Figure 7: First RUL Registration Flow > > " > > In 9.2.2 > " > > If the R Flag is set to 1 in the NS(EARO), the 6LR SHOULD inject the > host route in RPL, unless this is barred for other reasons, such as > the saturation of the RPL parents. The 6LR MUST use a RPL Non- > Storing Mode signaling and the updated Target Option (see > Section 6.1). The 6LR SHOULD refrain from setting the 'X' flag to > avoid a redundant EDAR/EDAC flow to the 6LBR. The 6LR MUST request a > DAO-ACK by setting the 'K' flag in the DAO message. Success > injecting the route to the RUL's address is indicated by the 'E' flag > set to 0 in the RPL status of the DAO-ACK message. > > For the registration refreshes, if the RPL Root sets the 'P' flag in > the DODAG Configuration Option to 1, then the 6LR MUST refrain from > sending the keep-alive EDAR; instead, it MUST set the 'X' flag to 1 > in the Target Option of the DAO messages, to request that the Root > proxies the keep-alive EDAR/EDAC exchange with the 6LBR (see > Section 6); if the 'P' flag is set to 0 then the 6LR MUST set the 'X' > flag to 0 and handle the EDAR/EDAC flow itself. > " I don't mind this, but IIUC the "MUST" may not be indicating a technical requirement, just an efficiency one? (The mirroring of doing the one if and only if you do the other does seem to be something that should be MUST-level required.) > In 9.2.3 > > > > It would be great to have some exposition on how this stuff is expected to be > > rolled out and how it's safe for incremental deployment, especially if (as the > > shepherd report indicates) we don't have any implementation experience to > > build confidence. > > I guess the 'X' flag helps since it answers a number of your questions. > Note that we have a lot of experience in non-storing mode; the main difference is that the tunnel does not end at the destination but at the router serving it. Yes, I think the 'X' flag helps to clarify the deployment scenario. > The real challenge will be to find a good ROV mechanism based on the ROVR. > > > > > There might be a small internal inconsistency in §9.2.2 in terms of what needs to > > be waited for before the NA(EARO) is emitted (see the detailed comments for > > why). > > > > Deferring the response > > > > > I still feel that if we're going to incrementally add new properties to MOP 7, we > > should list the relevant documents as references in the registry until MOP 7 is > > fully specified. In this case we can arguably get away with not doing so since this > > document Updates: RFC 6550 already and thus could be said to be doing the > > reservation by modification of the core protocol, but we are not using that > > procedure universally (e.g., for turnon-rfc8138) and it seems prudent to use a > > consistent mechanism. > > Yes, we have a github page for that, see https://github.com/roll-wg/RPLv2; I added your concern above in there. > > It is duplicated there https://github.com/roll-wg/RFC6550bis/ in case we decide to write that is RFC 6550 bis > > I guess we're good. [this continued in a subthread] > > > > > Section 1 > > > > A RUL may be unable to participate because it is very energy- > > constrained, code-space constrained, or because it would be unsafe to > > let it inject routes in RPL. Using 6LoWPAN ND as opposed to RPL as > > the host-to-router interface limits the surface of the possible > > attacks by the RUL against the RPL domain, and can protect RUL for > > its address ownership. > > > > (nit?) I am not entirely sure what sense "and can protect" is used in. > > IIUC, a given leaf could either be a RAL or a RUL; an RAL participates in RPL and > > as such is assumed to be trusted to properly advertise routes, including > > protecting routes to its own address. In contrast, an RUL requires assistance of > > the RPL router to be able to protect its address, something that 6LoWPAN ND > > enables by virtue of the ROVR. So I feel like the contrast is more of a "but can > > still protect the RUL's address ownership" -- the "and can" construction suggests > > that this is an additional benefit of using 6LoWPAN ND that is not achieved when > > the leaf is RPL-aware. (Or am I conflating RPL and 6LoWPAN ND too much?) > > Yes, this part is not "as opposed to RPL" since it is done with ND in all cases. > Better split in 2 sentences? > > " > A RUL may be unable to participate because it is very energy- > constrained, code-space constrained, or because it would be unsafe to > let it inject routes in RPL. Using 6LoWPAN ND as opposed to RPL as > the host-to-router interface limits the surface of the possible > attacks by the RUL against the RPL domain. If all RULs and RANs use > 6LoWPAN ND for Neighbor Discovery, it is also possible to protect the > address ownership of all nodes, including the RULs. > " That does read more easily, yes. I did not try to think through how it plays out if RANs use 6LoWPAN ND vs directly participating in RPL, in terms of whether protecting address ownership of all nodes is possible in both cases, but I trust you to have done so. > > > > Section 3 > > > > details). If the packet from the RUL has an RPI, the 6LR as a RPL > > border router SHOULD rewrite the RPI to indicate the selected > > Instance and set the flags, but it does not need to encapsulate the > > packet. > > > > (1) why is there any normative language in a non-normative section? > > Removed the normative there, added a link to 9.2.2 > > > (2) doesn't it need to be a MUST, if it's not encapsulating? > > Added text in 9.2.2 instead. > > " When forwarding a packet from the RUL into the RPL domain, if the > packet does not have an RPI then the 6LR MUST encapsulate the packet > to the Root, and add an RPI. If there is an RPI in the packet, the > 6LR MUST rewrite the RPI but does not need to encapsulate. > > " > > > > > > A RUL is not expected to support the compression method defined in > > [RFC8138]. For that reason, the border router uncompresses the > > packet before forwarding it over an external route to a RUL > > [USEofRPLinfo]. > > > > Just to confirm: the "border router" here is not the 6LBR but rather a "normal" > > 6LR (i.e., an "RPL border router")? > > Yes; I changed to " the border router (the 6LR here)". Since we now have external routes, we now have a southern border as well. > > > > > Section 4.2 > > > > "Registration Extensions for 6LoWPAN Neighbor Discovery" [RFC8505] > > updates the behavior of RFC 6775 to enable a generic Address > > Registration to services such as routing and ND proxy, and defines > > the Extended Address Registration Option (EARO) as shown in Figure 2: > > > > nit: the grammar seems off here; it would scan better if it was "to provide > > services", but I'm not 100% sure that's correct. > > It is a registration to services (or maybe for services?) but not the services themselves > What about > " > "Registration Extensions for 6LoWPAN Neighbor Discovery" [RFC8505] > updates RFC 6775 into a generic Address Registration mechanism that > can be used to access services such as routing and ND proxy. To that > effect, [RFC8505] defines the Extended Address Registration Option > (EARO), shown in Figure 2: > > " Looks good; thanks! > > > > Section 4.3 > > > > The exchange is protected by the retry mechanism (ARQ) specified in > > Section 8.2.6 of [RFC6775], though in an LLN, a duration longer than > > the default value of the RetransTimer (RETRANS_TIMER) [RFC4861] of 1 > > second may be necessary to cover the round trip delay between the 6LR > > and the 6LBR. > > > > This is the only place in the document that we use the term ARQ (other than the > > glossary), and RFC 6775 itself does not use the term either. > > So I'm not sure that it's adding much value (just risk of confusion if someone > > expects it to be present in RFC 6775 the way I did). > > Removed > > > > > Section 5.1 > > > > To obtain routing services from a router that implements this > > specification, a RUL needs to implement [RFC8505] and sets the "R" > > and "T" flags in the EARO to 1 as discussed in Section 4.2.1 and > > Section 4.2.3, respectively. Section 9.2.1 specifies new behaviors > > > > nit: s/4.2.3/4.2.2/ > > Done > > > > > Section 6.1 > > > > The updated format is illustrated in Figure 4. It is backward > > compatible with the Target Option in [RFC6550]. It is recommended > > > > I agree that it is backwards compatible in the sense that it degenerates into the > > previous structure when the ROVR size is zero. But do we have confidence that > > existing implementations will do something useful if we use bits that they treat > > as flags, to indicate that the overall size of the option is increased in a way not > > previously envisioned? > > The flags field was reserved in section 6.7.7 of RPL so that much is ok I guess. > There is nothing in that section that prevents the length from exceeding 20 bytes. > If an implementation has a sanity check, it is non-standard will need to be disabled. > Note that this does not hurt this RFC since the packet is unicast from the 6LR to the Root. > And I added that sentence that says that they need to be upgraded. I probably missed that it was unicast, so thanks for pointing that out. That reduces the magnitude of my worrying, at least. > > > > Section 6.2 > > > > Section 4.3 of [USEofRPLinfo] updates [RFC6550] to indicate that the > > definition of the Flags applies to Mode of Operation (MOP) values > > zero (0) to six (6) only. For a MOP value of 7, the implementation > > MUST consider that the Root performs the proxy operation. > > > > How is this to be noted for future implementors of MOP value 7? Are we relying > > on the "Updates:" relationship with 6550 to note this? > > As discussed in your summary, I rely on the RPL-WG github https://github.com/roll-wg/RPLv2/blob/main/README.md > > > > > > > Section 6.3 > > > > Status Value: 6-bit unsigned integer. If the 'A' flag is set to 1 > > this field transports a Status value defined for IPv6 ND EARO. > > When the 'A' flag is set to 0, the Status value is defined for > > RPL. > > > > nit(?): I suggest "the Status value is as defined for RPL" (add "as", or perhaps > > "one" in the same place). > > Done > > > > > > Reciprocally, upon a DCO or a DAO-ACK message from the RPL Root with > > a RPL Status that has the 'A' flag set, the 6LR MUST copy the RPL > > Status value unchanged in the Status field of the EARO when > > generating an NA to the RUL. > > > > By my reading "copy the RPL Status value unchanged" includes the values of the > > E and A flags (and this is predicated on 'A' being set), which doesn't seem like it > > would have the desired effect...I expect that only the StatusValue field is > > supposed to be copied (with the high bits set to zero)? > > Well, you're correct and I thought the text you copied above did not leave room for mistake. > " Status Value: 6-bit unsigned integer". > > " > Status Value: 6-bit unsigned integer. > > If the 'A' flag is set to 1 this field transports a value defined > for the 6LoWPAN ND EARO Status. > > When the 'A' flag is set to 0, this field transports a Status > Value defined for RPL. > " Hmm, that is true. ("Status Value" with majuscule 'V' might help get there.) I assume that I was seeing "RPL Status" and thinking "the thing in the core RFC", where it was 8 bits. I am not sure that we should put much more time into this point, though. > > > > Section 7 > > > > In the case of a RUL, the 6LR that serves the RUL acts as the RAN > > that receives the Non-Storing DCO. This specification leverages the > > Non-Storing DCO between the Root and the 6LR that serves as > > attachment router for a RUL. A 6LR and a Root that support this > > specification MUST implement the Non-Storing DCO. > > > > Should we mention with in the discussion of the 'P' flag in §6.2? > > The 'P' flag is not the enabler for this support. > > > I'm not entirely sure how the negotiation/enablement procedure works for a > > RAL, either. > > Well, there's none; a RAN that does not understand the async Non-Storing DCO will ignore it (see my RPL quote above). > It may think that it has reachability for a while. Its next registration will resynchronize, hopefully for the good. > > > > Section 8 > > > > * If the RPL Root advertises the capability to proxy the EDAR/EDAC > > exchange to the 6LBR, the 6LR refrains from sending the keep-alive > > EDAR message. If it is separated from the 6LBR, the Root > > regenerates the EDAR message to the 6LBR periodically, upon a DAO > > message that signals the liveliness of the address. > > > > I feel like we should mention the situation where the RPL Root advertises the 'P' > > flag but the 6LR does not support this specification. > > Do we end up with both the 6LR and the RPL Root sending the EDAR message, or > > is the RPL Root expected to notice that the 6LR is sending one and refrain from > > generating an additional one? (I guess we expect it to be uncommon that 6LBR > > and RPL Root are different, anyway?) Or is this just not supposed to happen > > because the mechanism only exists to support RULs and an un-updated 6LR will > > not attempt to support RULs? > > > > Section 9.1 > > > > 6LN/RUL 6LR <6LR*> Root 6LBR > > | | | | > > |<------ND------>|<----RPL----->|<-------ND-------->| > > | |<----------------ND-------------->| > > > > Are these arrows still part of the "legend" (of sorts) as opposed to being > > indications of the initial flow(s)? > > Yes, is this better? > " > > 6LN/RUL 6LR <6LR*> Root 6LBR > |<---Using ND--->|<--Using RPL->|<-----Using ND---->| > | |<-----------Using ND------------->| > " Yes, thanks. > > > > To achieve this, the Path Sequence and the Path Lifetime in the DAO > > message are taken from the Transaction ID and the Address > > Registration lifetime in the NS(EARO) message from the 6LN. > > > > Reusing an identifier taken from one context in one protocol to play a role in a > > different context in a different protocol has historically led to security-relevant > > flaws/attacks. What kind of analysis has been done to consider the risk of such > > issues here? > > None. I have no idea what opening this creates. > All I can say is that as opposed maybe to your examples, the TID was designed to be mapped onto RPL from the beginning and to mean the same thing. > If you look at the text in RFC 8505 for the TID: It is the verbatim copy of the text for the Path Sequence in RPL. It's easier to drive when you know where's you're going 😊. For the lifetime, we had to go through a translation. "TID was designed to be mapped onto RPL from the beginning" helps a lot; thanks. > > > > [RFC8929] expects that the 6LBR is collocated with the RPL Root, but > > if not, the 6LBR MUST forward the status code to the originator of > > the EDAR, either the 6LR or the RPL Root that proxies for it. The ND > > status code is mapped in a RPL Status value by the RPL Root, and then > > back by the 6LR. > > > > Continuing the theme, can we get into a scenario where the 6LR in this flow does > > not implement this specification but receives a DCO carrying an EARO status > > code? > > I can add a note. What about: > " > Note that a legacy RAN that receives a Non-Storing > DCO that it does not support will ignore it silently, as specified in > section 6 of [RFC6550]. The result is that it may ignore for a while > that it is no more reachable. The situation will be cleared upon the > next Non-Storing DAO exchange if the error is returned in a DAO-ACK. > > " Looks good. (s/no more reachange/no longer reachable/, but that's just a nit) > > > > > Figure 9 illustrates this in the case where the 6LBR and the Root are > > not collocated, and the Root proxies the EDAR messages. > > > > (The figure shows an EDAC message being proxied, not an EDAR message, > > though for the general case using EDAR as the description seems to make > > sense.) > > Changed to "the Root proxies the EDAR/EDAC flow" > > > > > Section 9.2.1 > > > > This specification does not alter the operation of a 6LoWPAN ND- > > compliant 6LN/RUL, which is expected to operate as follows: > > [...] > > 5. Following section 5.1 of [RFC8505], a 6LN acting as a RUL sets > > the R Flag in the EARO of its registration(s) for which it > > requires routing services. If the R Flag is not echoed in the > > NA, the RUL SHOULD attempt to use another 6LR. The RUL SHOULD > > ensure that one registration succeeds before setting the R Flag > > to 0. [...] > > > > AFAICT the SHOULDs here represent a divergence from the previously specified > > 6LN/RUL 6LoWPAN ND behavior (not least because this document seems to be > > the first definition of using the R flag in the NA as opposed to NS), in > > contravention to the initial statement. > > Changed " does not alter " to "builds on". Note that the RUL could have been implemented that way. > > > > Section 9.2.2 > > > > As described in [RFC8505], if the "I" field is zero, then the Opaque > > field is expected to carry the RPLInstanceID suggested by the 6LN; > > otherwise, there is no suggested Instance. If the 6LR participates > > in the suggested RPL Instance, then the 6LR MUST use that RPL > > Instance for the Registered Address. > > > > This MUST-level requirement seems to preclude any kind of policy filter on the > > 6LR to apply authorization checks to attempts to use a given RPL Instance. Is > > that intended? > > There is no alternate design for the else statement that must come with a SHOULD. > > We have this in the security section: > " > The Opaque field in the EARO enables the RUL to suggest a RPLInstanceID > where its traffic is placed. It is also possible for an attacker RUL to > include an RPI in the packet. This opens to attacks where a RPL instance > would be reserved for critical traffic, e.g., with a specific bandwidth > reservation, that the additional traffic generated by a rogue may disrupt. > The attack may be alleviated by traditional access control and traffic > shaping mechanisms where the 6LR controls the incoming traffic from the > 6LN. More importantly, the 6LR is the node that injects the traffic in the > RPL domain, so it has the final word on which RPLInstance is to be used > for the traffic coming from the RUL, per its own policy. > " > Is that enough? Yes, that will work. It implies ("access control") that attempting to use an RPL Instance that's supposed to be for critical traffic will result in an unauthorized node's traffic getting dropped (rather than remapped to a different instance), but I will not get too bent out of shape if someone ends up doing such remapping. > > > > NA(EARO) to the RUL. Upon receiving an asynchronous DCO message, if > > a DAO-ACK is pending then the 6LR MUST wait for the DAO-ACK to send > > the NA(EARO) and deliver the status found in the DCO, else it MUST > > send an asynchronous NA(EARO) to the RUL immediately. > > > > I think I missed the explanation for why it has to wait for the DAO-ACK before > > sending the NA(EARO), if the DCO is going to take precedence. > > In particular, it seems to be in conflict with the description of the general flow in > > §9.1, which says that "[u]pon the DAO-ACK - or the DCO if one arrives first - the > > 6LR responds to the RUL with an NA(EARO)." > > Oups! Great catch. I was afraid of race conditions since the path sequence is not reflected in the DCO. But I do not have a flow to justify this. > I removed the wait: > " > > Upon receiving or timing out the DAO-ACK after an implementation-specific > number of retries, the 6LR MUST send the corresponding NA(EARO) to the RUL. > Upon receiving an asynchronous DCO message, it MUST send an asynchronous > NA(EARO) to the RUL immediately, but still be capable of processing the > DAO-ACK if one is pending. > > " > > > > > The 6LR MUST set the R Flag to 1 in the NA(EARO) back if and only if > > the 'E' flag is set to 0, indicating that the 6LR injected the > > Registered Address in the RPL routing successfully and that the EDAR > > proxy operation succeeded. > > > > Please use a bit more detail on where the 'E' flag is (I assume it's the one taken > > from a bit that was formerly part of the 'Status' field in the RPL message, but in > > the next paragraph we clearly say it's the flag "in the RPL Status" to avoid any > > doubt). > > Done > > > > > An error injecting the route causes the 'E' flag to be set to 1. If > > the error is not related to ND, the 'A' flag is set to 0. In that > > case, the registration succeeds, but the RPL route is not installed. > > So the NA(EARO) is returned with a status indicating success but the > > R Flag set to 0, which means that the 6LN obtained a binding but no > > route. > > > > Continuing the theme, can we get into a situation where the RUL does not check > > the R flag and assumes that there is a route installed? > > That was missing from RFC 8505. We should have indicated it. Currently we have: > " > 5. Following section 5.1 of [RFC8505], a 6LN acting as a RUL sets > the R Flag in the EARO of its registration(s) for which it > requires routing services. If the R Flag is not echoed in the > NA, the RUL SHOULD attempt to use another 6LR. The RUL SHOULD > ensure that one registration succeeds before setting the R Flag > to 0. In case of a conflict with the preceding rule on lifetime, > the rule on lifetime has precedence. > > " > And > " > when the R Flag set to 1 in a NS(EARO) is not echoed in the NA(EARO), > which indicates that the route injection failed. > " > > Actually the former does not really implement the latter though it should. > Changing to > " > > 5. Following section 5.1 of [RFC8505], a 6LN acting as a RUL sets > the R Flag in the EARO of its registration(s) for which it > requires routing services. If the R Flag is not echoed in the > NA, the RUL MUST consider that establishing the routing services > via this 6LR failed and it SHOULD attempt to use another 6LR. > The RUL SHOULD ensure that one registration succeeds before > setting the R Flag to 0. In case of a conflict with the > preceding rule on lifetime, the rule on lifetime has precedence. > > " Okay. So basically the story here is just "this is part of the Updates: 8505 and what 8505 says doesn't quite work", so there's not much else we can do. (And §8 already says as much.) > > > > If the 'A' flag is set to 0 in the RPL Status of the DAO-ACK, then > > the 6LoWPAN ND operation succeeded, and an EARO Status of 0 (Success) > > MUST be returned to the 6LN. The EARO Status of 0 MUST also be used > > if the 6LR did not attempt to inject the route but could create the > > binding after a successful EDAR/EDAC exchange or refresh it. > > > > If the 'E' flag is set to 1 in the RPL Status of the DAO-ACK, then > > the route was not installed and the R flag MUST be set to 0 in the > > NA(EARO). The R flag MUST be set to 0 if the 6LR did not attempt to > > inject the route. > > > > These two paragraphs seem to have some amount of redundancy with the > > preceding few paragraphs, though I'm not entirely sure how much. > > I was careful when writing them. Some deal with the NCE, others with the routes. > > > > > In a network where Address Protected Neighbor Discovery (AP-ND) is > > enabled, in case of a DAO-ACK or a DCO indicating transporting an > > > > nit: It seems that we should just pick one of "indicating transporting". > Picked "transporting" > > > EARO Status value of 5 (Validation Requested), the 6LR MUST challenge > > the 6LN for ownership of the address, as described in section 6.1 of > > [RFC8928], before the Registration is complete. This flow, > > illustrated in Figure 10, ensures that the address is validated > > before it is injected in the RPL routing. > > > > To me Figure 10 is showing the flow where the 6LR itself initiates the "Validation > > Requested" state; I don't see a triggering DAO-ACK or DCO. > > It is a step that runs upon a proof of ownership, as you do remember from RFC 8928. > > I changed the drawing to > > > 6LN 6LR Root 6LBR > | | | | > |<--------------- RA ---------------------| | | > | | | | > |------ NS EARO (ROVR=Crypto-ID) -------->| | | > | | | | > |<- NA EARO(status=Validation Requested) -| | | > | | | | > |----- NS EARO and Proof-of-ownership -->| | > | | | | > | | | > | | | > |<----------- NA EARO (status=10)--- | | > | | | > | | | > | | | | > | |--------- EDAR ------->| > | | | > | |<-------- EDAC --------| > | | | > | | | | > | |-DAO(X=0)->| | > | | | | > | |<- DAO-ACK-| | > | | | | > |<----------- NA EARO (status=0)----------| | | > | | | | > ... > | | | | > |------ NS EARO (ROVR=Crypto-ID) -------->| | | > | |-DAO(X=1)->| | > | | |-- EDAR -->| > | | | | > | | |<-- EDAC --| > | |<- DAO-ACK-| | > |<----------- NA EARO (status=0)----------| | | > | | | | > ... > > > > > > The 6LR may at any time send a unicast asynchronous NA(EARO) with the > > R Flag set to 0 to signal that it stops providing routing services, > > > > Staying on theme, what will a RUL that doesn't know about this spec do with > > such an asynchronous NA(EARO)? > > This was already prepared for in RFC 8505 > > | 4 | Removed: The binding state was removed. This Status MAY | > | | be placed in an NA(EARO) message that is sent as the | > | | rejection of a proxy registration to an IPv6 ND | > | | Registrar, or in an asynchronous NA(EARO), at any time. | > | | | > > > > > > Section 9.2.3 > > > > A RPL Root MUST set the 'P' flag to 1 in the RPL DODAG Configuration > > Option of the DIO messages that it generates (see Section 6) to > > signal that it proxies the EDAR/EDAC exchange and supports the > > Updated RPL Target option. > > > > [just noting that this is another place, in addition to §6.2, where we enumerate > > what the 'P' flag signals, which may be incomplete, per my previous comment.] > > I do not think it is incomplete > > > > > > Section 10 > > > > The 6LR acts as a generic MLD querier and generates a DAO with the > > Multicast Address as the Target Prefix as described in section 12 of > > [RFC6550]. As for the Unicast host routes, the Path Lifetime > > associated to the Target is mapped from the Query Interval, and set > > to be larger to account for variable propagation delays to the Root. > > > > (Is this just the "round up, if needed" setting, or is there more to consider when > > accounting for variable propagation delays?) > > Propagation delay can be very long, like a number of seconds. Perhaps we should say more in §9.2.2, then, as the only corresponding text I could find for the unicast route case was "in that operation, the Path Lifetime must be rounded, if needed, to the upper value to ensure that the path has a longer lifetime than the registration." What you describe seems to be more than just a "rounding" operation by adding additional time. > > > > The Root proxies the MLD exchange as a listener with the 6LBR acting > > as the querier, so as to get packets from a source external to the > > RPL domain. > > > > (Only if the source is external to the RPL domain, right?) > > Yes > > > > > > Section 11 > > > > It is worth noting that with [RFC6550], every node in the LLN is RPL- > > aware and can inject any RPL-based attack in the network. This > > specification isolates edge nodes that can only interact with the RPL > > routers using 6LoWPAN ND, meaning that they cannot perform RPL > > insider attacks. > > > > (editorial) I suggest some phrasing akin to "this specification improves the > > situation by isolating edge nodes so they can only interact [...]". > > Done > > > > > > In a general manner, the Security Considerations in [RFC7416] > > [RFC6775], and [RFC8505] apply to this specification as well. > > > > But not those of RFC 6550? > > Oups, added > > > > > More importantly, the 6LR is the node that injects the traffic in the > > RPL domain, so it has the final word on which RPLInstance is to be > > used for the traffic coming from the RUL, per its own policy. > > > > [I do believe I commented previously about just this topic :) ] > > Yes, I suggest to add > " > In particular, a > policy can override the formal language that forces to use the Opaque field > or to rewrite the RPI provided by the RUL, in a situation where the > network administrator finds it relevant. > " > I hope that sorts it out, but we can have another round. > > As usual now, many thanks for your incredible review. I'm learning a lot. > > Take care, and enjoy the break! 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V4aPFKvKG5SHrrvwpRru9vEbW7KCSIc/Pi8EMYoYamsLFnAiUb4t/ZHTU3rIY8ExCFirE2JxevONu9sEPMWEmw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR11MB4006 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-9.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2020 14:33:00 -0000 SGVsbG8gQmVuamFtaW4gDQoNCkkgcmVhZCB0aGF0IHdl4oCZcmUgZ29vZC4gDQoNCknigJltIG5v dCAxMDAlIHN1cmUgdGhvdWdoLCBwbGVhc2UgY29tZSBiYWNrIGlmIHlvdSBleHBlY3QgYSBjaGFu Z2UgZm9yIHRoZSBNVVNUIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gYmVsb3cuDQoNCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmU6 DQoNCj4gTGUgMjAgZMOpYy4gMjAyMCDDoCAwODowMSwgQmVuamFtaW4gS2FkdWsgPGthZHVrQG1p 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Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sm4GtbkB-XfP for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 07:51:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vk1-xa32.google.com (mail-vk1-xa32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4852A3A11DE for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 07:51:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vk1-xa32.google.com with SMTP id e27so1364300vkn.2 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 07:51:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YpBtLiq3PgQzPrwhFBVry0Db1JH6e1HYz43jRcIXWUo=; b=YZIEhzJV/PJPlBCJrqUERRKg5FKy755apyGinBR4HC/xetp+IYCwM61DX/PMMEBt92 6Ug8q5LhseIgoVyl0aoXIQW/rYkL4b5HqEqDweqWrBmAiUMK91dQsvb9kqDGeYHGkR8S Gxc2hKfSsifyT2vvgfZnSZAEufxI3xcIBSg6MXk26e2+i4a1zYjk1oVDAZ53LAaJJ0Ft 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w8mr13597279vkw.24.1608565891748; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 07:51:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ines Robles Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 17:50:55 +0200 Message-ID: To: roll Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009355d705b6fb6e15" Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Doodle for Interim Meeting in January - Minutes from IETF 109 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 15:51:35 -0000 --0000000000009355d705b6fb6e15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear all, Please find the link to the doodle in order to set up an interim meeting at the end of January 2021. Please fill it by 8th of January. https://doodle.com/poll/936cn2y6uwfp3dia?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link Please also find the link to the minutes of the IETF109, comments welcome by 3th January. Many many thanks to the minute takers :-) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-roll/ Best wishes, Ines and Dominique. --0000000000009355d705b6fb6e15 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

Please find the link to the d= oodle in order to set up an interim meeting at the end of January 2021.=C2= =A0 Please fill it by 8th of January.



Please a= lso find the link to the minutes of the IETF109, comments welcome by 3th Ja= nuary. Many many thanks to the minute takers :-)

<= a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-roll/">https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-roll/

Best= wishes,

Ines and Dominique.

<= div>


--0000000000009355d705b6fb6e15-- From nobody Sun Dec 27 11:24:31 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E56D3A0C6A; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:24:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=earthlink.net; domainkeys=pass (2048-bit key) header.from=charles.perkins@earthlink.net header.d=earthlink.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hw4q1vcQVgEN; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02E3D3A0C67; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:24:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; s=dk12062016; t=1609097067; bh=9wL/mkFp3r/3wfAInv4e/1yVrPPJyOJ4pcdL oBhSR5w=; h=Received:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date: User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Language:X-ELNK-Trace: X-Originating-IP; b=MtU3U354kZnrm9ugn9dvi9Nfhw1/xWlDPNRYgWMGDO3THs kAYc0dfXGBIJHA6Igf7tZqXIFs++e90a6gzuccP7JSeU++KD9PR7N6HKju8BfE+H0ma 0uE9Qcql5YQL4JcCL0FwWwUWFP9/KEsKH2YXUt8cCtTnKPDTw1rQGKg3D1TsOLbicpO gqq/aCcZZSc9dNf2961kmO4+tLW007HQfhclmJdoOBQF9dHoSaO5ya+U1+EPuOqdsmS vW72CalQt8M17vUcHofbar3p6HKspE6YG/p0EA10j3Rv3c7jgndoaTL0U8sbqgArwCv 9qZbXXfMo5wgby1R5jZ2k8Q0MlGQ== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk12062016; d=earthlink.net; b=H9GWtEVg6ENCqvZ+GXgjNOVjalqEiZsoChUfoe+8U7CL4poKkCFvP5MSogW1TAWS0j9zvUh1iN5naqi79yq9PvnjhfjenileIgqIUzdj5UG/craoY0vdyqnvOOIJSqn6JT7DAtudjtXcXmt+/3AooqMgnzJj7nxBKvVO7vdZZjDVyqXwOOesxLdlEC4+enJxJvfj+sJxUaOTNfIO1Ic59HcT21N3Hrxju7sFlXsvCmEVfMiEz0Gy7KZ41C6T0CvBIS+9Poqm9n3zM/HW6xjWxpKUWlPtaIFxeWO4g94kcnl1ZxLpAyVcLSGdlEWJE16aeg/DePJXVtg0PjidfYtYIA==; h=Received:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Language:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [99.51.72.196] (helo=[192.168.1.82]) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4) (envelope-from ) id 1ktbeT-0009JV-PS; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 14:24:25 -0500 To: Alvaro Retana , "draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl@ietf.org" Cc: Ines Robles , roll-chairs@ietf.org, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks References: From: Charlie Perkins Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:24:24 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-ELNK-Trace: 137d7d78656ed6919973fd6a8f21c4f2d780f4a490ca6956df8303b86ceddf559eeb44b800df2e3a3cd4abab30aba5db350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 99.51.72.196 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-08 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:24:30 -0000 Hello Alvaro and all, Here are some follow-up comments for your review review of our document. On 6/16/2020 2:36 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote: > .... > > [Line numbers from idnits.] > > ... > 102    1.  Introduction > ... > 125       AODV-RPL reuses and provides a natural extension to the core RPL > 126       functionality to support routes with birectional asymmetric > links. > 127       It retains RPL's DODAG formation, RPL Instance and the > associated > 128       Objective Function, trickle timers, and support for storing > and non- > 129       storing modes.  AODV adds basic messages RREQ and RREP as > part of RPL > 130       DIO (DODAG Information Object) control messages, and does > not utilize > 131       the DAO message of RPL.  AODV-RPL specifies a new MOP > running in a > 132       seperate instance dedicating to discover P2P routes, which > may differ > 133       from the P2MP routes discoverable by native RPL. AODV-RPL can be > 134       operated whether or not native RPL is running otherwise. > > [nit] s/seperate instance dedicating/separate instance dedicated Check. > [major] "AODV-RPL can be operated whether or not native RPL is running > otherwise."  If native RPL is also running in the LLN, it can learn > the same routes as the ones discovered through AODV-RPL.  Which route > should have preference, or is this a deployment issue and outside the > scope? If the route is the same, it will have the same metric.  If the metrics are different for two routes discovered at about the same time, then the route with the more favorable metric should be chosen.  When two different routing protocols are in operation, route timeout parameters should be chosen according to the needs of the networks operating the protocols.  For this reason, the decision about which of two routes to prefer seems to be outside of the scope of AODV-RPL.  Since AODV-RPL can discover any route that is discoverable by RPL, it isn’t necessary to run both protocols at the same time; nevertheless, it is possible to do so and not prohibited. Before establishing a P2P route, the OrigNode checks whether there is already a route to TargNode which meets the OF of the application. If there is one, OrigNode does not have to initiate AODV-RPL route discovery. Even if native RPL has established a symmetric route symmetry between OrigNode and TargNode, AODV-RPL can still be invoked to discover an asymmetric route between OrigNode and TargNode which meets the application OF at reduced cost. > > [major] If native RPL is already running in an LLN, how would AODV-RPL > be introduced in the network?  I'm thinking about §2/rfc5706. Since the route table entries for AODV-RPL are upwards compatible with RPL, needing only the addition of the sequence numbers, I think it makes sense to initially populate the AODV-RPL route table information by importing the existing RPL information. > 136    2.  Terminology > ... > 144       AODV > 145          Ad Hoc On-demand Distance Vector Routing[RFC3561]. > > [nit] s/Routing[RFC3561]/Routing [RFC3561] Check. > 298 4.1. AODV-RPL DIO RREQ Option > > 300 OrigNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREQ-DIO > 301 message. A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREQ option. > > [major] What should a receiver do if more than one RREQ options are > received? I specified that it SHOULD be dropped. I don't think this is too harsh, even though other solutions are possible. > [major] When would the receiver not drop the RREQ-DIO?  IOW, why > wouldn't it always drop it (MUST)?  If it is not > dropped...then...should all the options be processed? > > These questions go back to the reason only one RREQ option is > expected.  From §6.1, it seems like one is enough...specially given > that multiple ART options can be present. > > Are there cases where more than one RREQ option could be "normal"? Yes, it is enough for there to be just one RREQ option in a DIO.   I could imagine a beneficial use for multiple RREQ options, but I can’t imagine going through the exercise of specifying an interoperable behavior right now.  That was my reasoning for the SHOULD drop.  But I am O.K. with MUST drop, and if a future specification changes the behavior, then this prohibition can be updated in that future specification. > ... > 363 L is independent from the route lifetime, which is defined in the > 364 DODAG configuration option. The route entries in hop-by-hop > 365 routing and states of source routing can still be maintained even > 366 after the DAG expires. > > [??] I don't understand what the last sentence is trying to say. It > sounds as if the information learned through the DAG can still be used > after the DAG expires...up until the route lifetime expires...is that it? > Please clarify. > > How about this: > > > The route entries in hop-by-hop routing > and states of source routing can still be maintained > even after the node no longer maintains DAG connectivity or > messaging. > > Why would the node want to maintain the information after it is > disconnected? > > Put another way, I understand why L is independent of the route > lifetime.  I don't understand why the information would be kept. The > text says that it "can still be maintained", not that it has to be > maintained -- is there a value in keeping it? > > Maybe simply remove the last sentence...?? > The reason for keeping the route information would be so that the destination sequence number information could be maintained, much as it is in AODV.  We could, instead, suggest that the information MAY be contained in an auxiliary data structure maintained external to the route table.  The information could be helpful to help dispose of random RREQs that might for some unknown reason still be circulating from previous route discovery operations.  However, as far as I know, no one has reported such a phenomenon in the intended networks where AODV-RPL would be deployed. So, in the interest of progressing the document, I suggest simply deleting the last sentence. > 389 4.2. AODV-RPL DIO RREP Option > > 391 TargNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREP-DIO > 392 message. A RREP-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREP option. > 393 TargNode supplies the following information in the RREP option: > > [major] What should the receiver do if more than one RREP option is > received? > > How about: > > A RREP-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREP option, > otherwise the message SHOULD be dropped. > > [major] When would the receiver not drop the RREQ-DIO?  IOW, why > wouldn't it always drop it (MUST)?  If it is not > dropped...then...should all the options be processed? > > These questions go back to the reason only one RREP option is > expected.  From §6.3, it seems like one is all that is needed. > > Are there cases where more than one RREP option could be "normal"? O.K., we can require dropping the packet if more than one RREP option is present.     ....   .  A RREP-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREP option,     otherwise the message MUST be dropped. > ... > 422    4.3.  AODV-RPL Target Option > ... > 451                  Figure 3: Target option format for AODV-RPL MOP > > [minor] s/Target option/ART Option (or AODV-RPL Target option)/g(almost) > > There are some places where "target option" is used to refer to the > ART option, but without the extra qualification it may be confused > with the Target option in core RPL.  IOW, let's be painfully specific. Check. > ... > 441 Shift > 442 6-bit unsigned integer. This field is used to recover the > 443 original InstanceID (see Section 6.3.3); 0 indicates that the > 444 original InstanceID is used. > > [major] s/InstanceID/RPLInstanceID/g Done. > 446 Rsv > 447 MUST be initialized to zero and ignored upon reception. > > [major] Do you expect these bits to be assigned by IANA in the future? No, but a future specification could modify the operation. Do we need to say that? > ... > 456 4.3. AODV-RPL DIO Target Option > ... > 464 A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry at least one ART Option. A RREP-DIO > 465 message MUST carry exactly one ART Option. > > [major] What should a node do if more than one ART Option is received in > a RREP-DIO message? > > How about: > > A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry at least one ART Option. A RREP-DIO > message MUST carry exactly one ART Option. Otherwise, the message > SHOULD be dropped. > > > [major] When would the receiver not drop the RREP-DIO?  IOW, why > wouldn't it always drop it (MUST)?  If it is not > dropped...then...should all the options be processed?  From §6.3, it > seems like one is all that is needed. > > Are there cases where more than one ART option could be "normal"? The > RREQ can include multiple, but the RREP only one -- I didn't find a > place where it was clear that processing these ART options should > result in one reply, but I may have missed it. I changed it:     A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry at least one ART Option.  A RREP-DIO     message MUST carry exactly one ART Option. Otherwise, the message     MUST be dropped. > ... > 485    5.  Symmetric and Asymmetric Routes > ... > 539       Appendix A describes an example method using the ETX and RSSI to > 540       estimate whether the link is symmetric in terms of link > quality is > 541       given in using an averaging technique. > > [minor] Please expand ETX/RSSI. Done. > ... > 605    6.2.1.  General Processing > ... > 615          If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 1, the > router MUST > 616          determine whether each direction of the link (by which > the RREQ- > 617          DIO is received) satisfies the Objective Function. In > case that > 618          the downward (i.e. towards the TargNode) direction of the > link > 619          does not satisfy the Objective Function, the link can't > be used > 620          symmetrically, thus the S bit of the RREQ-DIO to be sent > out MUST > 621          be set as 0.  If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is > set to 0, > 622          the router MUST only check into the upward direction > (towards the > 623          OrigNode) of the link. > > [major] s/MUST only check/MUST determine... > > You fixed the first occurrence of MUST check, but not the second. Fixed. > 625          If the upward direction of the link can satisfy the Objective > 626          Function (defined in [RFC6551]), and the router's Rank > would not > 627          exceed the MaxUseRank limit, the router joins the DODAG > of the > 628          RREQ-Instance.  The router that transmitted the received > RREQ-DIO > 629          is selected as the preferred parent.  Otherwise, if the > Objective > 630          Function is not satisfied or the MaxUseRank limit is > exceeded, the > 631          router MUST discard the received RREQ-DIO and MUST NOT > join the > 632          DODAG. > > [minor] "Objective Function (defined in [RFC6551])"   Put the > reference when OF is first used. Done. > ... > 642          If the H bit is set to 1, then the router (TargNode or > 643          intermediate) MUST build an upward route entry towards > OrigNode > 644          which MUST include at least the following items: Source > Address, > 645          InstanceID, Destination Address, Next Hop, Lifetime, and > Sequence > 646          Number.  The Destination Address and the InstanceID > respectively > 647          can be learned from the DODAGID and the RPLInstanceID of > the RREQ- > 648          DIO, and the Source Address is the address used by the local > 649          router to send data to the OrigNode.  The Next Hop is the > 650          preferred parent.  The lifetime is set according to DODAG > 651          configuration (i.e., not the L bit) and can be extended > when the > 652          route is actually used.  The sequence number represents the > 653          freshness of the route entry, and it is copied from the > Orig SeqNo > 654          field of the RREQ option.  A route entry with the same > source and > 655          destination address, same InstanceID, but stale sequence > number, > 656          MUST be deleted. > > [major] s/MUST build an upward route entry towards OrigNode which MUST > include at least the following items/MUST build an upward route entry > towards OrigNode which includes at least the following items Done - thanks! > 658       Step 4: > > 660          If the router is an intermediate router, then it > transmits a RREQ- > 661          DIO via link-local multicast; if the H bit is set to 0, the > 662          intermediate router MUST include the address of the interface > 663          receiving the RREQ-DIO into the address vector.. > Otherwise, if > 664          the router (i.e., TargNode) was not already associated > with the > 665          RREQ-Instance, it prepares a RREP-DIO Section 6.3. If, on the > 666          other hand TargNode was already associated with the > RREQ-Instance, > 667          it takes no further action and does not send an RREP-DIO. > > [nit] s/../. > > [nit] s/Section 6.3./(Section 6.3). Done. > ... > 764    6.4.  Receiving and Forwarding Route Reply > ... > 773          If the S bit of the RREP-DIO is set to 0, the router MUST > check > 774          the downward direction of the link (towards the TargNode) > over > 775          which the RREP-DIO is received.  If the downward > direction of the > 776          link can satisfy the Objective Function, and the router's > Rank > 777          would not exceed the MaxRank limit, the router joins the > DODAG of > 778          the RREP-Instance.  The router that transmitted the > received RREP- > 779          DIO is selected as the preferred parent.  Afterwards, > other RREP- > 780          DIO messages can be received. > > [] s/the router MUST check.../the router MUST determine...satisfies > > IOW, join the two sentences. How about:         If the S bit of the RREP-DIO is set to 0, the router MUST determine         whether the downward direction of the link (towards the TargNode)         over which the RREP-DIO is received satisfies the Objective         Function, and the router's Rank would not exceed the MaxRank         limit.  If so, the router joins the DODAG of the RREP-Instance. > ... > 794          If the H bit is set to 1, then the router (OrigNode or > 795          intermediate) MUST build a downward route entry.  The > route entry > 796          MUST include at least the following items: OrigNode Address, > 797          InstanceID, TargNode Address as destination, Next Hop, > Lifetime > 798          and Sequence Number.  For a symmetric route, the Next Hop > in the > 799          route entry is the router from which the RREP-DIO is > received. > 800          For an asymmetric route, the Next Hop is the preferred > parent in > 801          the DODAG of RREQ-Instance.  The InstanceID in the route > entry > 802          MUST be the original RPLInstanceID (after subtracting the > Shift > 803          field value).  The source address is learned from the ART > Option, > 804          and the destination address is learned from the DODAGID.  The > 805          lifetime is set according to DODAG configuration and can be > 806          extended when the route is actually used.  The sequence > number > 807          represents the freshness of the route entry, and is > copied from > 808          the Dest SeqNo field of the ART option of the RREP-DIO.  > A route > 809          entry with same source and destination address, same > InstanceID, > 810          but stale sequence number, SHOULD be deleted. > > [major] s/MUST build a downward route entry.  The route entry MUST > include at least the following items/MUST build a downward route entry > towards TargNode which includes at least the following items > > [minor] s/The lifetime is set according to DODAG configuration and can > be extended when the route is actually used./The lifetime is set > according to DODAG configuration (i.e., not the L bit) and can be > extended when the route is actually used. > > [major] s/stale sequence number, SHOULD be deleted./stale sequence > number, MUST be deleted. Agreed.  Done. > 812          If the H bit is set to 0, for an asymmetric route, an > intermediate > 813          router MUST include the address of the interface > receiving the > 814          RREP-DIO into the address vector; for a symmetric route, > there is > 815          nothing to do in this step. > > [minor] In §6.2.1 the part about H=0 was moved to Step 4.  Please do > the same here. Done. > ... > 830       Upon receiving a RREP-DIO, a router which already belongs to the > 831       RREQ-Instance SHOULD drop the RREP-DIO. > > [minor] When it is ok to not drop it?  I'm assuming that there's no > harm in propagating the extra RREP, right?  IOW, there's no need for > MUST. There is the harm of propagating useless traffic. > ... > 876    9.1.  New Mode of Operation: AODV-RPL > > 878       IANA is asked to assign a new Mode of Operation, named > "AODV-RPL" for > 879       Point-to-Point(P2P) hop-by-hop routing from the "Mode of > Operation" > 880       Registry [RFC6550]. > > [major] The reference is not needed because even though the registry > was defined in rfc6550, the RFC is not the registry. > > [major] A note should be added indicating that the number in > parenthesis is a suggestion. Done and done. > 882 +-------------+---------------+---------------+ > 883                  |    Value    |  Description  |   Reference | > 884 +-------------+---------------+---------------+ > 885                  |   TBD1 (5)  |   AODV-RPL    | This document | > 886 +-------------+---------------+---------------+ > > 888                            Figure 6: Mode of Operation > > 890    9.2.  AODV-RPL Options: RREQ, RREP, and Target > > 892       IANA is asked to assign three new AODV-RPL options "RREQ", > "RREP" and > 893       "ART", as described in Figure 7 from the "RPL Control Message > 894       Options" Registry [RFC6550]. > > [major] The reference is not needed because even though the registry > was defined in rfc6550, the RFC is not the registry. > > [major] A note should be added indicating that the number in > parenthesis is a suggestion. Done and done. > 896 +-------------+------------------------+---------------+ > 897              |    Value    |        Meaning         | Reference   | > 898 +-------------+------------------------+---------------+ > 899              | TBD2 (0x0A) |      RREQ Option       | This document | > 900 +-------------+------------------------+---------------+ > 901              | TBD3 (0x0B) |      RREP Option       | This document | > 902 +-------------+------------------------+---------------+ > 903              | TBD4 (0x0C) |       ART Option       | This document | > 904 +-------------+------------------------+---------------+ > > [major] 0x0a is already assigned to rfc6997! oopsies >> 920 10. Security Considerations >> >> 922 The security mechanisms defined in section 10 of [RFC6550] and >> 923 section 11 of [RFC6997] can also be applied to the control messages >> 924 defined in this specification. The RREQ-DIO and RREP-DIO both have a >> 925 secure variant, which provide integrity and replay protection as well >> 926 as optional confidentiality and delay protection. >> ... >> [minor] §3 talks about the fact that an RREQ-DIO is a DIO message >> with the rREQ Option (and there's similar text for the RREP-DIO). >> However, I think it's confusing to the reader to mention that there are >> secure variants. I think that expanding the description (at the end of >> §3) of what exactly the *-DIO messages are (and that the definition >> includes the secure variants) would go a long way. > > > Is it O.K. if we note that RREQ and RREP have secure variants, without > having to reproduce the entire section? > > I think so — pointing to rfc6550. Done. > 906                            Figure 7: AODV-RPL Options > > 908    10.  Security Considerations > > 910       In general, the security considerations for the operation of > AODV-RPL > 911       are similar to those for the operation of RPL (as described in > 912       Section 19 of the RPL specification [RFC6550]). Sections 6.1 > and 10 > 913       of [RFC6550] describe RPL's security framework, which > provides data > 914       confidentiality, authentication, replay protection, and delay > 915       protection services. > > [] It may be a god idea to also point at rfc7416 as an Informative > reference. I know what you meant :-) > ... > 924       If a rogue router knows the key for the Security > Configuration in > 925       use, it can join the secure AODV-RPL route discovery and cause > 926       various types of damage.  Such a rogue router could > advertise false > 927       information in its DIOs in order to include itself in the > discovered > 928       route(s).  It could generate bogus RREQ-DIO, and RREP-DIO > messages > 929       carrying bad routes or maliciously modify genuine RREP-DIO > messages > 930       it receives.  A rogue router acting as the OrigNode could launch > 931       denial-of-service attacks against the LLN deployment by > initiating > 932       fake AODV-RPL route discoveries.  In this type of scenario, > RPL's > 933       authenticated mode of operation, where a node can obtain the > key to > 934       use for a P2P-RPL route discovery only after proper > authentication, > 935       SHOULD be used. > > [major] rfc6550 says this: > >    Authenticated mode cannot be supported by symmetric algorithms. As > of the >    writing of this specification, RPL supports only symmetric algorithms: >    authenticated mode is included for the benefit of potential future >    cryptographic primitives. > > If I'm interpreting this correctly, there is really no authentication > defined for RPL that can apply here.  Has something been defined after > that?  IOW, what "SHOULD be used"? How about:                                         In this type of scenario, RPL's       preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for a P2P-RPL       route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used.  If a future       IETF document specifies the authenticated mode of operation as       described in RFC 6550, then future AODV-RPL implementations SHOULD       use the authenticated mode of operation. > 937       When RREQ-DIO message uses source routing option with 'H' > set to 0, > 938       some of the security concerns that led to the deprecation of > Type 0 > 939       routing headers [RFC5095] may apply.  To avoid the > possibility of a > 940       RREP-DIO message traveling in a routing loop, if one of its > addresses > 941       are present as part of the Source Route listed inside the > message, > 942       the Intermediate Router MUST NOT forward the message. > > [major] rfc5095 will probably raise a lot of flags... > > Suggestion> >    When a RREQ-DIO message uses the source routing option by setting the H >    bit to 0, a rogue router may populate the Address Vector field with > a set >    of addresses that may result in the RREP-DIO traveling in a routing > loop. >    The TargNode MUST NOT generate a RREP if one of its addresses is > present >    in the Address Vector.  An Intermediate Router MUST NOT forward a > RREP if >    one of its addresses is present in the Address Vector. Thanks, done. > 944    11.  Link State Determination > > [major] There's already text in §5 that pretty much says the same > thing...except for the first sentence; I couldn't find a place where > it says that symmetric is the default, did I miss it? > > In any case, I think that because of the text in §5, this section is > not needed. > > 946       This document specifies that links are considered symmetric > until > 947       additional information is collected.  Other link metric > information > 948       can be acquired before AODV-RPL operation, by executing > evaluation > 949       procedures; for instance test traffic can be generated > between nodes > 950       of the deployed network.  During AODV-RPL operation, OAM > techniques > 951       for evaluating link state (see([RFC7548], [RFC7276], > [co-ioam]) MAY > 952       be used (at regular intervals appropriate for the LLN). The > 953       evaluation procedures are out of scope for AODV-RPL. Deleted - thanks! 955    12.  References > 957    12.1.  Normative References > ... > 964       [RFC3561]  Perkins, C., Belding-Royer, E., and S. Das, "Ad > hoc On- > 965                  Demand Distance Vector (AODV) Routing", RFC 3561, > 966                  DOI 10.17487/RFC3561, July 2003, > 967 . > > [major] This doesn't have to be a Normative reference. I moved it. > ... > 991       [RFC6998]  Goyal, M., Ed., Baccelli, E., Brandt, A., and J. > Martocci, > 992                  "A Mechanism to Measure the Routing Metrics along > a Point- > 993                  to-Point Route in a Low-Power and Lossy Network", > 994                  RFC 6998, DOI 10.17487/RFC6998, August 2013, > 995 . > > [major] This shouldn't be a Normative reference. > > Please make both of them Informative to avoid the DownRef. Done, and thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Many thanks for the review, and wishing you a very merry holiday season. Regards, Charlie P. From nobody Wed Dec 30 13:23:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 709B93A0825; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 13:23:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138@ietf.org, roll-chairs@ietf.org, roll@ietf.org, Ines Robles , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, mariainesrobles@googlemail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <160936343398.7809.13719514432044829552@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 13:23:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138-18: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 21:23:55 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138-18: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for addressing my Discuss (and Comment) points!