From rps-owner@ISI.EDU Thu May 25 13:05:18 2000 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13963 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id JAA26600 for rps-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venera.isi.edu (venera.isi.edu [128.9.176.32]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA26591 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by venera.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25095 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x47.ripe.net (x47.ripe.net [193.0.1.47]) by birch.ripe.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26506 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:41:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (engin@localhost) by x47.ripe.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01026 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:41:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: x47.ripe.net: engin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:41:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Engin Gunduz X-Sender: engin@x47.ripe.net To: rps@ISI.EDU Subject: meaning of'list of' Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-rps@ISI.EDU Precedence: rps-list Hi, I have to questions regarding to the RPSL syntax: =-=-=-=-=- 1. In RFC2622 page 6, it is said that " A list is represented by separating the list members by commas ",". For example, "AS1, AS2, AS3, AS4" is a list of AS numbers." But in page 40: "A value of a list type is represented as a sequence of elements separated by the character "," and enclosed by the characters "{" and "}". So, if mnt-by in mntner is defined as mnt-by list of mandatory, multi-valued then which one of the below has the corrct syntax: mnt-by: { A-MNT, B-MNT} or mnt-by: A-MNT, B-MNT =-=-=-=-=- 2. If the tech-c is defined as tech-c mandatory, multi-valued in mntner, than has mntner: A-MNT From rps-owner@ISI.EDU Thu May 25 13:58:42 2000 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16265 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id KAA00479 for rps-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venera.isi.edu (venera.isi.edu [128.9.176.32]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA00473 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cat.isi.edu (cat.isi.edu [128.9.160.205]) by venera.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28180; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cengiz@localhost) by cat.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14048; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:38:34 -0700 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14637.25882.517613.900639@cat.isi.edu> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:38:34 -0700 (PDT) To: Engin Gunduz Cc: rps@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: meaning of'list of' In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 3) "Acadia" XEmacs Lucid Reply-to: cengiz@ISI.EDU X-Organisation: USC / Information Sciences Institute X-Phone: +1 (310) 822 1511 x219 X-Fax: +1 (310) 823 6714 Sender: owner-rps@ISI.EDU Precedence: rps-list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Engin Gunduz (engin@ripe.net) on May 25: > 1. > In RFC2622 page 6, it is said that " A > list is represented by separating the list members by commas ",". > For example, "AS1, AS2, AS3, AS4" is a list of AS numbers." > > But in page 40: > "A value of a list type > is represented as a sequence of elements separated by the character > "," and enclosed by the characters "{" and "}". That paragraph starts with: A value of an attribute may also be a list of one of these types. A list is represented by separating the list members by commas ",". For example, "AS1, AS2, AS3, AS4" is a list of AS numbers. Note that being list valued and being multiple valued are orthogonal. A multiple valued attribute has more than one value, each of which may or may not be a list. On the other hand a single valued attribute may have a list value. Hence, this definition applies to object attributes. Where as the paragraph on page 40 describes the types for rp-attributes that are defined in the dictionary. rp-attributes are used in specifying filters and actions and are different than object attributes. > > > So, if mnt-by in mntner is defined as > > mnt-by list of mandatory, multi-valued > > then which one of the below has the corrct syntax: > > mnt-by: { A-MNT, B-MNT} > or > mnt-by: A-MNT, B-MNT > mnt-by: A-MNT, B-MNT is correct. On the other hand import: from AS1 accept community == { 1:1, 2:2 } is correct where community is an rp-attribute. In this case, we need the {} to separate the argument what comes next. > > =-=-=-=-=- > 2. > > If the tech-c is defined as > > tech-c mandatory, multi-valued > > in mntner, than has > > mntner: A-MNT I did not get the second question. Cengiz -- Cengiz Alaettinoglu Information Sciences Institute http://www.isi.edu/~cengiz University of Southern California From rps-owner@ISI.EDU Thu May 25 14:04:33 2000 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16460 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id KAA01427 for rps-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venera.isi.edu (venera.isi.edu [128.9.176.32]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA01410 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by venera.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28799; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x47.ripe.net (x47.ripe.net [193.0.1.47]) by birch.ripe.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15629; Thu, 25 May 2000 19:49:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (engin@localhost) by x47.ripe.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02139; Thu, 25 May 2000 19:49:18 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: x47.ripe.net: engin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:49:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Engin Gunduz X-Sender: engin@x47.ripe.net To: cengiz@ISI.EDU cc: rps@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: meaning of'list of' In-Reply-To: <14637.25882.517613.900639@cat.isi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-rps@ISI.EDU Precedence: rps-list On Thu, 25 May 2000 cengiz@ISI.EDU wrote: > > Engin Gunduz (engin@ripe.net) on May 25: > > 1. [...] > > > > mntner: A-MNT Thank you for quick answer. > > I did not get the second question. The second part of my mail is below, I don't know what went wrong but last 10 or so lines was cut in the message that came back from the list processor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 2. If the tech-c is defined as tech-c mandatory, multi-valued in mntner, than has mntner: A-MNT From rps-owner@ISI.EDU Thu May 25 14:14:53 2000 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16809 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:14:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id KAA01938 for rps-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venera.isi.edu (venera.isi.edu [128.9.176.32]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA01932 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cat.isi.edu (cat.isi.edu [128.9.160.205]) by venera.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29092; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cengiz@localhost) by cat.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14108; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:54:50 -0700 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14637.26858.541807.91445@cat.isi.edu> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:54:50 -0700 (PDT) To: Engin Gunduz Cc: cengiz@ISI.EDU, rps@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: meaning of'list of' In-Reply-To: References: <14637.25882.517613.900639@cat.isi.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 3) "Acadia" XEmacs Lucid Reply-to: cengiz@ISI.EDU X-Organisation: USC / Information Sciences Institute X-Phone: +1 (310) 822 1511 x219 X-Fax: +1 (310) 823 6714 Sender: owner-rps@ISI.EDU Precedence: rps-list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Engin Gunduz (engin@ripe.net) on May 25: > 2. > > If the tech-c is defined as > > tech-c mandatory, multi-valued > > in mntner, than has > > mntner: A-MNT > . > . > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > EF56-ARIN > . > . > > correct syntax, regarding its tech-c attributes? tech-c: EE5-ARIN EF56-ARIN is not correct. But, tech-c: EE5-ARIN tech-c: EF56-ARIN is correct. In the former case there is only one tech-c attribute whose value is "EE5-ARIN EF56-ARIN" which is not a correct . In the latter, you have two tech-c attributes, and they are both of type . if tech-c was "list of " than tech-c: EE5-ARIN, EF56-ARIN (with a comma) would have been valid. Cengiz -- Cengiz Alaettinoglu Information Sciences Institute http://www.isi.edu/~cengiz University of Southern California From rps-owner@ISI.EDU Thu May 25 15:03:26 2000 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18021 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 15:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id LAA06446 for rps-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venera.isi.edu (venera.isi.edu [128.9.176.32]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA06440 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cat.isi.edu (cat.isi.edu [128.9.160.205]) by venera.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02239; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cengiz@localhost) by cat.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14235; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:48:35 -0700 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14637.30083.525639.829623@cat.isi.edu> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:48:35 -0700 (PDT) To: gerald@merit.edu (Gerald Andrew Winters) Cc: cengiz@ISI.EDU, engin@ripe.net (Engin Gunduz), rps@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: meaning of'list of' In-Reply-To: <20000525181227.1E7527E506@backin5.merit.edu> References: <14637.26858.541807.91445@cat.isi.edu> <20000525181227.1E7527E506@backin5.merit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 3) "Acadia" XEmacs Lucid Reply-to: cengiz@ISI.EDU X-Organisation: USC / Information Sciences Institute X-Phone: +1 (310) 822 1511 x219 X-Fax: +1 (310) 823 6714 Sender: owner-rps@ISI.EDU Precedence: rps-list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerald Andrew Winters (gerald@merit.edu) on May 25: > Cengiz, > > Just curious, semantically what is the difference between > a 'list valued' attribute and a 'multivalued' attribute? > Is it necessary to have both these? For example, import attribute is multi-valued. I.e. it can appear in an object several times. It is not list valued. i.e. its value is not a list of items. import: from AS1 accept AS1 import: from AS2 accept AS2 members attribute of an as-set is list valued, i.e. its value is a list of items. as-set: as-foo members: AS1, AS2, AS3 Hence, they are quite different indeed. But you knew this. The members attribute is also multi-valued: as-set: as-foo members: AS1, AS2, AS3 members: AS4, AS5 Is this what is confusing everyone? Long time ago, attributes which are list valued were not multi-valued at the same time. But this was different than the current ripe behavior with respect to many attributes. The consensus was we allow these since it makes the user experience better. (I think the suggestion come from Mark Prior and Daniel Karrenberg.) > > --jerry > > > > > > > Engin Gunduz (engin@ripe.net) on May 25: > > > 2. > > > > > > If the tech-c is defined as > > > > > > tech-c mandatory, multi-valued > > > > > > in mntner, than has > > > > > > mntner: A-MNT > > > . > > > . > > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > > > EF56-ARIN > > > . > > > . > > > > > > correct syntax, regarding its tech-c attributes? > > > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > > EF56-ARIN > > > > is not correct. But, > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > > tech-c: EF56-ARIN > > > > is correct. > > > > In the former case there is only one tech-c attribute whose value is > > "EE5-ARIN EF56-ARIN" which is not a correct . In the > > latter, you have two tech-c attributes, and they are both of type > > . > > > > if tech-c was "list of " > > > > than > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN, > > EF56-ARIN > > > > (with a comma) would have been valid. > > > > Cengiz > > > > -- > > Cengiz Alaettinoglu Information Sciences Institute > > http://www.isi.edu/~cengiz University of Southern California > > Cengiz -- Cengiz Alaettinoglu Information Sciences Institute http://www.isi.edu/~cengiz University of Southern California From rps-owner@ISI.EDU Thu May 25 15:03:55 2000 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18047 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 15:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id LAA06487 for rps-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venera.isi.edu (venera.isi.edu [128.9.176.32]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA03588 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from backin5.merit.edu (backin5.merit.edu [198.108.60.28]) by venera.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00297; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by backin5.merit.edu (Postfix, from userid 8975) id 1E7527E506; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: meaning of'list of' To: cengiz@ISI.EDU Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Cc: engin@ripe.net (Engin Gunduz), rps@ISI.EDU In-Reply-To: <14637.26858.541807.91445@cat.isi.edu> from "cengiz@ISI.EDU" at May 25, 2000 10:54:50 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20000525181227.1E7527E506@backin5.merit.edu> From: gerald@merit.edu (Gerald Andrew Winters) Sender: owner-rps@ISI.EDU Precedence: rps-list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cengiz, Just curious, semantically what is the difference between a 'list valued' attribute and a 'multivalued' attribute? Is it necessary to have both these? --jerry > > > Engin Gunduz (engin@ripe.net) on May 25: > > 2. > > > > If the tech-c is defined as > > > > tech-c mandatory, multi-valued > > > > in mntner, than has > > > > mntner: A-MNT > > . > > . > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > > EF56-ARIN > > . > > . > > > > correct syntax, regarding its tech-c attributes? > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > EF56-ARIN > > is not correct. But, > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > tech-c: EF56-ARIN > > is correct. > > In the former case there is only one tech-c attribute whose value is > "EE5-ARIN EF56-ARIN" which is not a correct . In the > latter, you have two tech-c attributes, and they are both of type > . > > if tech-c was "list of " > > than > tech-c: EE5-ARIN, > EF56-ARIN > > (with a comma) would have been valid. > > Cengiz > > -- > Cengiz Alaettinoglu Information Sciences Institute > http://www.isi.edu/~cengiz University of Southern California > From rps-owner@ISI.EDU Thu May 25 17:25:20 2000 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21038 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id OAA12904 for rps-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venera.isi.edu (venera.isi.edu [128.9.176.32]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA08729 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from backin5.merit.edu (backin5.merit.edu [198.108.60.28]) by venera.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03970; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by backin5.merit.edu (Postfix, from userid 8975) id CEE7F7E506; Thu, 25 May 2000 15:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: meaning of'list of' To: cengiz@ISI.EDU Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Cc: gerald@merit.edu (Gerald Andrew Winters), engin@ripe.net (Engin Gunduz), rps@ISI.EDU In-Reply-To: <14637.30083.525639.829623@cat.isi.edu> from "cengiz@ISI.EDU" at May 25, 2000 11:48:35 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20000525192236.CEE7F7E506@backin5.merit.edu> From: gerald@merit.edu (Gerald Andrew Winters) Sender: owner-rps@ISI.EDU Precedence: rps-list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cengiz, > Hence, they are quite different indeed. But you knew this. > The members attribute is also multi-valued: > as-set: as-foo > members: AS1, AS2, AS3 > members: AS4, AS5 > > Is this what is confusing everyone? I asked my question just to hear your response. The spec Is clear (IMHO). However, for me, I could not see a semantic difference between tech-c: EE5-ARIN tech-c: EF56-ARIN and tech-c: EE5-ARIN, EF56-ARIN For this particular case it seems to be extra typing to use the multivalued form. But as you point out the 'import:' attribute is clearly a case that is better as multivalued (ie, better for humans to read). --jerry > > Long time ago, attributes which are list valued were not multi-valued > at the same time. But this was different than the current ripe > behavior with respect to many attributes. The consensus was we allow > these since it makes the user experience better. (I think the > suggestion come from Mark Prior and Daniel Karrenberg.) > > > > > --jerry > > > > > > > > > > > Engin Gunduz (engin@ripe.net) on May 25: > > > > 2. > > > > > > > > If the tech-c is defined as > > > > > > > > tech-c mandatory, multi-valued > > > > > > > > in mntner, than has > > > > > > > > mntner: A-MNT > > > > . > > > > . > > > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > > > > EF56-ARIN > > > > . > > > > . > > > > > > > > correct syntax, regarding its tech-c attributes? > > > > > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > > > EF56-ARIN > > > > > > is not correct. But, > > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN > > > tech-c: EF56-ARIN > > > > > > is correct. > > > > > > In the former case there is only one tech-c attribute whose value is > > > "EE5-ARIN EF56-ARIN" which is not a correct . In the > > > latter, you have two tech-c attributes, and they are both of type > > > . > > > > > > if tech-c was "list of " > > > > > > than > > > tech-c: EE5-ARIN, > > > EF56-ARIN > > > > > > (with a comma) would have been valid. > > > > > > Cengiz > > > > > > -- > > > Cengiz Alaettinoglu Information Sciences Institute > > > http://www.isi.edu/~cengiz University of Southern California > > > > > > Cengiz > > -- > Cengiz Alaettinoglu Information Sciences Institute > http://www.isi.edu/~cengiz University of Southern California >