From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon May 3 15:38:09 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24611 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 15:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKjBo-0006IR-Sb for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:33:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i43JXKdM024204 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 May 2004 15:33:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKizj-0003zy-JZ for rtg-bfd-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:20:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA23459 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 15:20:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BKizi-0001ZH-BJ for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:20:50 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BKiym-0001Rp-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:19:53 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BKixs-0001K6-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:18:56 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKimK-0000Al-O4; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:07:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKihZ-00041b-Ei for rtg-bfd@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:02:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20657 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 15:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BKihW-0006o6-Fy for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:02:02 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BKigU-0006gW-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:00:59 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BKifl-0006Zo-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 15:00:13 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BKifl-0004cY-9W for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 19:00:13 +0000 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 12:00:12 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <85899609.20040503120012@psg.com> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: BFD charter rev 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The latest rev of the charter bellow. The htmldiff with the previous version is at: http://www.psg.com/~zinin/ietf/bfd-charter-01-02-diff.html I'm putting this on the IESG agenda for the telechat next week. -- Alex http://www.psg.com/~zinin/ Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) Current Status: Proposed Working Group Chairs (tentative): David Ward Jeff Haas Routing Area Directors: Bill Fenner Alex Zinin Routing Area Advisor: Alex Zinin Technical Advisor: Dave Katz Mailing Lists: General Discussion: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Send mail to: rtg-bfd-request@ietf.org With a subject line: subscribe Archive: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/rtg-bfd-wg Description of Working Group: The BFD Working Group is chartered to specify a protocol for bidirectional forwarding detection (BFD), as well as extensions to be used within the scope of BFD and IP routing, or protocols such as MPLS that are based on IP routing, in a way that will encourage multiple, inter-operable vendor implementations. BFD is a protocol intended to detect faults in the bidirectional path between two forwarding engines, including physical interfaces, subinterfaces, data link(s), and to the extent possible the forwarding engines themselves, with potentially very low latency. It operates independently of media, data protocols, and routing protocols. An additional goal is to provide a single mechanism that can be used for liveness detection over any media, at any protocol layer, with a wide range of detection times and overhead, to avoid a proliferation of different methods. Important characteristics of BFD include: - Simple, fixed-field encoding to facilitate implementations in hardware - Independence of the data protocol being forwarded between two systems. BFD packets are carried as the payload of whatever encapsulating protocol is appropriate for the medium and network. - Path independence: BFD can provide failure detection on any kind of path between systems, including direct physical links, virtual circuits, tunnels, MPLS LSPs, multihop routed paths, and unidirectional links (so long as there is some return path, of course.) - Ability to be bootstrapped by any other protocol that automatically forms peer, neighbor or adjacency relationships to seed BFD endpoint discovery. At this time the WG is chartered to complete the following work items (additional items will require rechartering): 1. Develop the base BFD protocol specification and submit it to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard 2. Document BFD encapsulation and usage profile for single-hop IPv4 and IPv6 adjacencies (e.g, physical links and IP/GRE tunnels for static routes, IS-IS, OSPFv2, OSPFv3, single-hop BGP) and submit the specification to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. 3. Document BFD encapsulation and usage profile for MPLS LSPs and submit the specification to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. 4. Develop the MIB module for BFD and submit it to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. 5. Document BFD encapsulation and usage profile for multi-hop IPv4 and IPv6 adjacencies (e.g. OSPF virtual links and iBGP sessiosn) and submit the specification to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. Topics for Possible Future Work: 1. Document BFD directly over 802.3 in close collaboration and synchronization with the IEEE. Goals and Milestones: Aug 04 Submit the base protocol specification to the IESG to be considered as a Proposed Standard. Aug 04 Submit BFD encapsulation and usage profile for single-hop IPv4 and IPv6 adjacencies to the IESG to be considered as a Proposed Standard Aug 04 Submit BFD encapsulation and usage profile for MPLS LSPs to the IESG to be considered as a Proposed Standard Nov 04 Submit BFD MIB to the IESG to be considered as Proposed Standard. Feb 05 Submit BFD encapsulation and usage profile for multi-hop IPv4 and IPv6 adjacencies to the IESG to be considered as a Proposed Standard Internet-Drafts (to be WG items): draft-katz-ward-bfd-01.txt draft-katz-ward-bfd-v4v6-1hop-00.txt draft-raggarwa-mpls-bfd-00.txt draft-nadeau-bfd-mib-00.txt From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon May 3 18:06:25 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06857 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 18:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKlIu-00018h-Q0 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 17:48:48 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i43Lmm7P004376 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 May 2004 17:48:48 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKlEN-0008D5-85 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 17:44:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA05128 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 17:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BKlEK-0007aV-Ob for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 17:44:04 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BKlDM-0007QM-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 17:43:04 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BKlCN-0007G4-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 17:42:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKl27-0002LC-8P; Mon, 03 May 2004 17:31:27 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKkKL-0004ov-Nn for rtg-bfd@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 16:46:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29576 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 16:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BKkKJ-0005PU-O5 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 16:46:11 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BKkJT-0005Ff-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 16:45:19 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BKkIY-000503-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 16:44:22 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 May 2004 12:58:01 +0000 Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i43KhoW9028403; Mon, 3 May 2004 13:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [161.44.71.187] ([161.44.71.187]) by flask.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.6-GR) with ESMTP id AIC76860; Mon, 3 May 2004 16:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: BFD charter rev 3 From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Reply-To: tnadeau@cisco.com To: Alex Zinin Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <85899609.20040503120012@psg.com> References: <85899609.20040503120012@psg.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc. Message-Id: <1083617005.6628.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-4) Date: 03 May 2004 16:43:25 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex, The charter looks good, but I am not sure we can have the MIB and the BFD/MPLS documents done by the end of August simply because they are gated on the progress of the base document. Perhaps an additional month would suffice. --tom > The latest rev of the charter bellow. The htmldiff with the previous > version is at: http://www.psg.com/~zinin/ietf/bfd-charter-01-02-diff.html > > I'm putting this on the IESG agenda for the telechat next week. From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon May 3 19:00:11 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10228 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 19:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKmNH-0007hP-H5 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:57:23 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i43MvNiu029596 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 May 2004 18:57:23 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKmEG-0005Gg-Si for rtg-bfd-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:48:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09577 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 18:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BKmED-0000O5-QT for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:48:01 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BKmDF-0000FU-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:47:02 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BKmCF-00007c-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:45:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKm0f-0001iz-Op; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:34:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BKlus-0008Ra-N5 for rtg-bfd@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:28:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA08722 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 18:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BKlup-0005j8-Or for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:27:59 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BKltt-0005cg-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:27:01 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BKlt1-0005VQ-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 18:26:07 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BKlt1-000MKH-Tj; Mon, 03 May 2004 22:26:08 +0000 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 15:26:05 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <91320910.20040503152605@psg.com> To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" CC: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: BFD charter rev 3 In-Reply-To: <1083617005.6628.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <85899609.20040503120012@psg.com> <1083617005.6628.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thomas, It's ok to finish and submit the BFD/MPLS doc at the same time as the base doc, it would simply wait in my queue ;) No problem pushing the date a bit either. -- Alex http://www.psg.com/~zinin/ Monday, May 3, 2004, 1:43:25 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > Alex, > The charter looks good, but I am not sure > we can have the MIB and the BFD/MPLS documents > done by the end of August simply because they > are gated on the progress of the base document. > Perhaps an additional month would suffice. > --tom >> The latest rev of the charter bellow. The htmldiff with the previous >> version is at: http://www.psg.com/~zinin/ietf/bfd-charter-01-02-diff.html >> >> I'm putting this on the IESG agenda for the telechat next week. From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon May 17 18:32:23 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09696 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BPqWh-0000uY-D6 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:24:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i4HMO3hw003495 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:24:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BPqD4-0004qS-Mf for rtg-bfd-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:03:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06614 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BPqD2-0005Ad-0j for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:03:44 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BPqCD-0004mV-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:02:54 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BPqB2-0004Go-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:01:40 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BPq5Z-0007xB-NA; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BPprZ-000051-QV for rtg-bfd@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:41:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02850 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BPprX-0005YS-Bb for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:41:31 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BPply-0004Ii-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:35:48 -0400 Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net ([207.17.137.64]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BPpjD-0003Aw-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:32:55 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i4HLWPBm017697 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:32:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkatz@juniper.net) Received: from [172.16.12.13] (nimbus-sc.juniper.net [172.16.12.13]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i4HLWPJ24360 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:32:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkatz@juniper.net) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org From: Dave Katz Subject: Revised I-Ds Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:32:24 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just launched the updated versions of the I-Ds to the secretariat, so they should be appearing in the next day or two. A version with security added should follow in the not-too-distant future. --Dave (speaking for Dave2) From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon May 17 20:56:19 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18015 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BPsse-0008Ga-2D for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:54:52 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i4I0sqKO031771 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:54:52 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BPsrL-0007Qw-74 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:53:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA17900 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BPsrI-0003hy-RH for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:53:28 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BPsqI-0003N0-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:52:27 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BPspV-000321-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:51:37 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BPsl7-0005zO-HN; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:47:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BPsd6-0003P9-Di for rtg-bfd@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:38:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA17222 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BPsd4-00065N-4S for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:38:46 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BPsc9-0005ih-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:37:50 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BPsbX-0005MZ-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:37:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BPsbY-000Edb-CE for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:37:12 +0000 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 17:37:11 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1375180843.20040517173711@psg.com> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: BFD charter rev 3 In-Reply-To: <91320910.20040503152605@psg.com> References: <85899609.20040503120012@psg.com> <1083617005.6628.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <91320910.20040503152605@psg.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks- Some more news on BFD: the WG charter passed the internal IESG review last week. It is now out for review on the new-work list. The final IESG discussion will be at the telechat next week. Alex From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed May 19 15:39:58 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA06757 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 15:39:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BQWkq-0007WQ-VS for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 15:29:28 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i4JJTSDs028915 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 15:29:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BQW2m-0001KX-6r for rtg-bfd-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:43:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29698 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BQW2j-0007SF-Hv for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:43:53 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BQW1j-0007LM-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:42:52 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BQW0m-0007Ej-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:41:52 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BQVmR-0006Bn-4G; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:27:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BQSDN-0006Ln-7m for rtg-bfd@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 10:38:37 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15914; Wed, 19 May 2004 10:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200405191438.KAA15914@ietf.org> From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce: ; Reply-to: iesg@ietf.org Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: WG Review: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (bfd) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:38:33 -0400 Sender: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Routing Area. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following description was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by May 26th. Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (bfd) ---------------------------------------- Description of Working Group: The BFD Working Group is chartered to specify a protocol for bidirectional forwarding detection (BFD), as well as extensions to be used within the scope of BFD and IP routing, or protocols such as MPLS that are based on IP routing, in a way that will encourage multiple, inter-operable vendor implementations. BFD is a protocol intended to detect faults in the bidirectional path between two forwarding engines, including physical interfaces, subinterfaces, data link(s), and to the extent possible the forwarding engines themselves, with potentially very low latency. It operates independently of media, data protocols, and routing protocols. An additional goal is to provide a single mechanism that can be used for liveness detection over any media, at any protocol layer, with a wide range of detection times and overhead, to avoid a proliferation of different methods. Important characteristics of BFD include: - Simple, fixed-field encoding to facilitate implementations in hardware - Independence of the data protocol being forwarded between two systems. BFD packets are carried as the payload of whatever encapsulating protocol is appropriate for the medium and network. - Path independence: BFD can provide failure detection on any kind of path between systems, including direct physical links, virtual circuits, tunnels, MPLS LSPs, multihop routed paths, and unidirectional links (so long as there is some return path, of course.) - Ability to be bootstrapped by any other protocol that automatically forms peer, neighbor or adjacency relationships to seed BFD endpoint discovery. At this time the WG is chartered to complete the following work items (additional items will require rechartering): 1. Develop the base BFD protocol specification and submit it to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard 2. Document BFD encapsulation and usage profile for single-hop IPv4 and IPv6 adjacencies (e.g, physical links and IP/GRE tunnels for static routes, IS-IS, OSPFv2, OSPFv3, single-hop BGP) and submit the specification to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. 3. Document BFD encapsulation and usage profile for MPLS LSPs and submit the specification to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. 4. Develop the MIB module for BFD and submit it to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. 5. Document BFD encapsulation and usage profile for multi-hop IPv4 and IPv6 adjacencies (e.g. OSPF virtual links and iBGP sessions) and submit the specification to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. Topics for Possible Future Work: 1. Document BFD directly over 802.3 in close collaboration and synchronization with the IEEE. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu May 20 03:02:07 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (www.iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01631 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 03:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BQhW2-0003Bl-JW for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:58:54 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i4K6ws8h012256 for rtg-bfd-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:58:54 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BQhUa-0002ku-PB for rtg-bfd-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:57:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA01490 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BQhUW-0005LC-UQ for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:57:21 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BQhTg-0005Br-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:56:29 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BQhSt-00052i-00 for rtg-bfd-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:55:39 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BQhRK-00027Y-Da; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:54:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BQhOm-0001Up-EW for rtg-bfd@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:51:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA01339 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BQhOi-0004OL-HV for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:51:20 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BQhNn-0004FL-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:50:23 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BQhN0-0003xb-00 for rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Thu, 20 May 2004 02:49:34 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i4K6n3e00467; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:49:03 +0300 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:49:03 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Dave Katz cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: Revised I-Ds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtg-bfd-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 On Mon, 17 May 2004, Dave Katz wrote: > I just launched the updated versions of the I-Ds to the secretariat, so > they should be appearing in the next day or two. > > A version with security added should follow in the not-too-distant > future. I mainly only checked the diffs between versions.. A few generic comments: ----------------------- - I'd suggest changing 'Changes from the previous draft' to 'Changes' and having subsections like 'Changes from ' and keeping the change history of the old drafts. This way the entire change history is kept intact, and there's smaller amount of wdiff churn ;-) - the last sections of the draft are in a relatively weird order ('Contributors', 'Acknowledgements', 'Authors Addresses', 'Changes', 'References', 'Security Considerations',...). This is very atypical, and should be changed. I'd shift up SecCons just After the Acknowledgements, and References just after (new) SecCons. A few comments on bfd-02: ------------------------- - 'category: Informational' at the header no longer applies - just one reference, and that to RFC2026? Oh my... :-) - a new text in section 2 states: BFD may^ also be implemented in the control engine, though doing so may^ preclude the detection of some kinds of failures. ==> I fail to understand this. Running BFD on the control engine, with packets flowing through the forwarding path IMHO tests a super-set of functionality, not a subset. I fail to see what kind of failures you couldn't note by a control plane implementation of BFD? Actually now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not 100% what you mean by 'control engine' in the first place.. A few comments on bfd-v4v6-1hop-01: ----------------------------------- - no static route or single-hop eBGP support yet? Anything I could do to help..? (BGP should be straightforward; static routes a bit trickier for address selection..) - this should probably be spelled out a bit: Each BFD session between a pair of systems MUST traverse a separate path in both directions. ==> that is, these don't need to use a separate _physical_ path, but what you want to say, I think, is that each BFD session must be independent of each other, so that if you ran e.g., OSPFv2 and IS-IS for v4 on the same link (weird but could be the case..), each would require a separate session? - still I think it would make sense to combine BFD for v4 and v6 sections; I already sent text for this. The difference is just about one sentence -- IMHO it's not worth keeping duplicate otherwise identical text apart :) - the new text: If a BFD session never comes up (possibly because the remote system^ does not support BFD), this MUST NOT preclude the establishment of an OSPF neighbor or an IS-IS adjacency. ==> this requires a bit beefing up I think. What's the definition of 'never comes up'? I guess at the moment it's implementation-dependent, but it might not hurt to add some specification, pointers or suggestions here. - As for security considerations, you should add an Informational reference to GTSM spec (for further background information), as that spec includes quite a verbose discussion of the applicability and usefulness of TTL=255 checks. - I'm quite concerned about the graceful restart part when BFD shares fate with the control plane (which is probably the common scenario). That's all fine if you make the assumption that the routers have redundant control planes and are able to smoothly switch over (without losing a packet, or with very low delay) to the new control plane if the previous one failed. But if that isn't the case, BFD doesn't make OSPF/IS-IS reliability any better, because instead of failing a link and converging to a new path you end up waiting 5 minutes for the router to come up and losing all the packets in the meanwhile. This could be mitigated by placing a much more aggressive graceful-restart timer to BFD (like 3-5 seconds). I guess this is more of a concern on the whole graceful restart concept (which seems to require very specific hardware and software interactions to work properly) than for BFD.. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings