From Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com Mon Mar 28 02:32:34 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC273A681B; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:32:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08MrnwAi2oYX; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ilptbmg02.ecitele.com (ilptbmg02-out.ecitele.com [147.234.242.235]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD53F3A6965; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:32:30 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 93eaf2e8-b7bb7ae000004cb7-16-4d9055a8eb0b Received: from ILPTEXCH02.ecitele.com ( [147.234.245.181]) by ilptbmg02.ecitele.com (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id 1B.90.19639.8A5509D4; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:32:24 +0200 (IST) Received: from ILPTMAIL02.ecitele.com ([147.234.244.212]) by ILPTEXCH02.ecitele.com ([147.234.245.181]) with mapi; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:33:51 +0200 From: Alexander Vainshtein To: Yaakov Stein Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:33:46 +0200 Subject: PW status TLV vs BFD diagnostic codes Thread-Topic: PW status TLV vs BFD diagnostic codes Thread-Index: AcvtKzzBfTFGRp2nRfKcXlXec7dbvg== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A3C5DF08D38B6049839A6F553B331C76D722D06BCAILPTMAIL02eci_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , pwe3 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:32:35 -0000 --_000_A3C5DF08D38B6049839A6F553B331C76D722D06BCAILPTMAIL02eci_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yaakov and all, I'd like to reiterate the point Rob and I have made in the PWE3 meeting tod= ay: The status mechanisms based on BFD diagnostic codes does not support (and, = AFAIK, cannot support) the PW redundancy mechanism. Regards, Sasha --_000_A3C5DF08D38B6049839A6F553B331C76D722D06BCAILPTMAIL02eci_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yaakov and all,<= o:p>

I’d like to reiterate the point Ro= b and I have made in the PWE3 meeting today:

 

The status mechanisms based = on BFD diagnostic codes does not support (and, AFAIK, cannot support) the P= W redundancy mechanism.

 

Regards,

 = ;    Sasha

 

= --_000_A3C5DF08D38B6049839A6F553B331C76D722D06BCAILPTMAIL02eci_-- From david.i.allan@ericsson.com Tue Mar 29 22:51:26 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E493A6A87 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:51:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.837 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.837 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.761, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CzO5p2wAPijp for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.8]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B691A3A6AD5 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p2U5pstu001874 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:51:55 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.203]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 01:51:48 -0400 From: David Allan I To: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 01:51:47 -0400 Subject: Draft MPLS-TP CC CV RDI, BFD for MPLS-TP Thread-Topic: Draft MPLS-TP CC CV RDI, BFD for MPLS-TP Thread-Index: Acvuno65vIhhXBrgTI+jEascJKsm/w== Message-ID: <60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD51D5310B23@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD51D5310B23EUSAACMS0703e_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 05:51:26 -0000 --_000_60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD51D5310B23EUSAACMS0703e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI, a "comments welcome" situation... The current MPLS-TP CC-CV-RDI draft does not support poll/final discipline = for modifying an existing session or during session startup (the current dr= aft documents a "fast start" procedure which permits an transition to UP at= the desired session Tx rates by an exchange of INIT in either direction)..= .. In the transport application some consider modifying an existing session on= the fly to be a redundant function. However a last call comment suggests p= utting this capabilty back to maximize commonality with existing implementa= tions. What the editors have proposed is effectively an update to RFC 5880 in the = form of what an implementation should do if a POLL does not get a FINAL res= ponse in a finite amount of time (which COULD be specified as the RxInterva= l * detect mult which if the session has not timed out means the far end is= ignoring the POLL). It should simply abandon the attempt on the assumption= that the far end does not support P/F, and any session changes can only be= performed via a transition to ADMIN DOWN and the P/F less session startup = procedures document in draft-cc-cv-rdi... Alternatively using P/F COULD jus= t bring the session down. To be clear CC-CV-RDI does require a few other changes, including encapsula= tion such that this is not a compatability with existing implementations sc= enario. All will need some degree of change to work for MPLS-TP operation..= . Thanks Dave (on behalf of editors) --_000_60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD51D5310B23EUSAACMS0703e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FYI, a "comments welcome" situation…
 
The current MPLS-TP CC-CV-RDI draft does not support poll/final discip= line for modifying an existing session or during session startup (the curre= nt draft documents a "fast start" procedure which permits an tran= sition to UP at the desired session Tx rates by an exchange of INIT in either direction)….
 
In the transport application some consider modifying an existing sessi= on on the fly to be a redundant function. However a last call comment sugge= sts putting this capabilty back to maximize commonality with existing imple= mentations.
 
What the editors have proposed is effectively an update to RFC 5880 in= the form of what an implementation should do if a POLL does not get a FINA= L response in a finite amount of time (which COULD be specified as the RxIn= terval * detect mult which if the session has not timed out means the far end is ignoring the POLL). It shoul= d simply abandon the attempt on the assumption that the far end does not su= pport P/F, and any session changes can only be performed via a transition t= o ADMIN DOWN and the P/F less session startup procedures document in draft-cc-cv-rdi… Alternatively using P= /F COULD just bring the session down.
 
To be clear CC-CV-RDI does require a few other changes, including enca= psulation such that this is not a compatability with existing implementatio= ns scenario. All will need some degree of change to work for MPLS-TP operat= ion…
 
Thanks
Dave (on behalf of editors)
 
 
 
 
 
 --_000_60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD51D5310B23EUSAACMS0703e_-- From Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com Tue Mar 29 23:50:37 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F37483A6982 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:50:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c3XGvdLsNt8m for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ilptbmg02.ecitele.com (ilptbmg02-out.ecitele.com [147.234.242.235]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB283A6859 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:50:30 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 93eaf2e8-b7bb7ae000004cb7-6e-4d92d2b19303 Received: from ILPTEXCH02.ecitele.com ( [147.234.245.181]) by ilptbmg02.ecitele.com (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id 63.49.19639.1B2D29D4; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:50:26 +0200 (IST) Received: from ILPTMAIL02.ecitele.com ([147.234.244.212]) by ILPTEXCH02.ecitele.com ([147.234.245.181]) with mapi; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:50:58 +0200 From: Alexander Vainshtein To: David Allan I Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:50:48 +0200 Subject: RE: Draft MPLS-TP CC CV RDI, BFD for MPLS-TP Thread-Topic: Draft MPLS-TP CC CV RDI, BFD for MPLS-TP Thread-Index: Acvuno65vIhhXBrgTI+jEascJKsm/wAB736A Message-ID: References: <60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD51D5310B23@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD51D5310B23@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A3C5DF08D38B6049839A6F553B331C76D722D071B1ILPTMAIL02eci_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:50:37 -0000 --_000_A3C5DF08D38B6049839A6F553B331C76D722D071B1ILPTMAIL02eci_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave, Lots of thanks for sending this out and, incidentally, explaining in detail= what you propose to do. (The slide with the explanation has been missing it the version of your pre= sentation that is available on the Web, and my understanding from the sessi= on yesterday was incorrect.) I am very eager to hear what the response of the BFD WG would be:). Regards, Sasha From: rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of David Allan I Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:52 AM To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Draft MPLS-TP CC CV RDI, BFD for MPLS-TP FYI, a "comments welcome" situation... The current MPLS-TP CC-CV-RDI draft does not support poll/final discipline = for modifying an existing session or during session startup (the current dr= aft documents a "fast start" procedure which permits an transition to UP at= the desired session Tx rates by an exchange of INIT in either direction)..= .. In the transport application some consider modifying an existing session on= the fly to be a redundant function. However a last call comment suggests p= utting this capabilty back to maximize commonality with existing implementa= tions. What the editors have proposed is effectively an update to RFC 5880 in the = form of what an implementation should do if a POLL does not get a FINAL res= ponse in a finite amount of time (which COULD be specified as the RxInterva= l * detect mult which if the session has not timed out means the far end is= ignoring the POLL). It should simply abandon the attempt on the assumption= that the far end does not support P/F, and any session changes can only be= performed via a transition to ADMIN DOWN and the P/F less session startup = procedures document in draft-cc-cv-rdi... Alternatively using P/F COULD jus= t bring the session down. To be clear CC-CV-RDI does require a few other changes, including encapsula= tion such that this is not a compatability with existing implementations sc= enario. All will need some degree of change to work for MPLS-TP operation..= . Thanks Dave (on behalf of editors) --_000_A3C5DF08D38B6049839A6F553B331C76D722D071B1ILPTMAIL02eci_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dave,

Lots of thanks for sending th= is out and, incidentally, explaining in detail what you propose to do.

(The slide with the explanati= on has been missing it the version of your presentation that is available o= n the Web, and my understanding from the session yesterday was incorrect.)<= o:p>

 

I am very eager to hear what the response of = the BFD WG would beJ.

 

Reg= ards,

   &n= bsp; Sasha

&nbs= p;

From: rtg-bfd-bo= unces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of David = Allan I
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:52 AM
To: rtg= -bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Draft MPLS-TP CC CV RDI, BFD for MPLS-TP

 

<= div>

FYI, a "comments welcome" situation…

 

The current MPLS-TP CC-CV-RDI draft does not support poll/fin= al discipline for modifying an existing session or during session startup (= the current draft documents a "fast start" procedure which permit= s an transition to UP at the desired session Tx rates by an exchange of INI= T in either direction)….

=  

In the transport applica= tion some consider modifying an existing session on the fly to be a redunda= nt function. However a last call comment suggests putting this capabilty ba= ck to maximize commonality with existing implementations.=

 

What the editors have proposed is effectively an update to RFC 5880 in = the form of what an implementation should do if a POLL does not get a FINAL= response in a finite amount of time (which COULD be specified as the RxInt= erval * detect mult which if the session has not timed out means the far en= d is ignoring the POLL). It should simply abandon the attempt on the assump= tion that the far end does not support P/F, and any session changes can onl= y be performed via a transition to ADMIN DOWN and the P/F less session star= tup procedures document in draft-cc-cv-rdi… Alternatively using P/F C= OULD just bring the session down.

 

To be clear CC-CV-RD= I does require a few other changes, including encapsulation such that this = is not a compatability with existing implementations scenario. All will nee= d some degree of change to work for MPLS-TP operation…

 

Thanks

Dave (on behalf of= editors)

 

 

 

 =

 

<= /div>= --_000_A3C5DF08D38B6049839A6F553B331C76D722D071B1ILPTMAIL02eci_-- From jhaas@slice.pfrc.org Wed Mar 30 00:47:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D40AD3A6969 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:47:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.965 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.965 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Va7yi8S5bti7 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C683A6813 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E2F47224317; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:49:29 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:49:29 +0000 From: Jeffrey Haas To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: [Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com: Routing Area Open Meeting room change] Message-ID: <20110330074929.GA31433@slice> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:47:51 -0000 FYI: ----- Forwarded message from Adrian Farrel ----- Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:34:25 +0200 From: Adrian Farrel To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Cc: rtg-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Routing Area Open Meeting room change X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Reply-To: Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list Fortunately, this is only a change to the next-door room. Chairs: Notifying your WGs might be good. Adrian From: 80all-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:80all-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Wanda Lo Sent: 30 March 2011 09:01 To: 80all@ietf.org Subject: [80all] Wednesday 3-30-2011 Agenda Change Hi Everyone, There's a room change in today's afternoon session I (13:00-15:00). RTGAREA has moved to Congress Hall II. CLUE has moved to Congress Hall I. Please note it in on your pocket agenda to reflect the change. Of course, the agenda on the IETF website (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/80/agenda.html) always has the most up-to-date information. Thanks, Wanda =========================== Wanda Lo Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) 48377 Fremont Blvd., Ste. 117 Fremont, California 94538 / USA +1-510-492-4082 +1-510-492-4001 (fax) www.ietf.org -- Managed by Association Management Solutions (AMS) Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning www.amsl.com _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion ----- End forwarded message ----- From loa@pi.nu Wed Mar 30 08:04:39 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94353A6847; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:04:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.423 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.423 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.176, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lz-Jc3Ne+Bmu; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (mail.pi.nu [194.71.127.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77873A6821; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.66.247] (dhcp-42f7.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.66.247]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 709782A8001; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:06:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4D9346E4.2080606@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:06:12 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rtg-dir@ietf.org, Rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] bfd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-03 References: <4D93457F.4080500@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <4D93457F.4080500@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:04:39 -0000 All, someone = possibly me - mixed the mail addresses up. This was intended for the bfd working group! Though comments from the routing directorate would be welcome! /Loa On 2011-03-30 17:00, Loa Andersson wrote: > BFD working group, > > This is to start a 19 days BFD working group last on an mpls wg draft; > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-03.txt > > the draft was recently wg last called in the mpls wg, but the wg chairs > of both groups has agreed that this draft should also be last called in > the bfd working group. > > The document is part of the ongoing mpls-tp project. > > Please send your comments to the mpls@ietf.org mailing list. > > If your are not subscribed to the mpls wg list, please send to the > bfd wg mailing list (rtg-bfd@ietf.org) > > This working group last call ends April 11. > > > Loa George Ross Jeff and Dave > > mpls and bfd working group chairs > -- Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 +46 767 72 92 13