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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: BFD WG <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Problematic text in RFC 5882
Thread-Topic: Problematic text in RFC 5882
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Hi all,
I have found the following problematic text in Section 10.1.2 of RFC 5882:
<quote>
   If multiple topologies are used to support multiple data protocols (or
   multiple classes of service of the same data protocol), the topology-
   specific path associated with a failing BFD session should no longer
   be advertised in IS-IS Label Switched Paths (LSPs) in order to signal
   a lack of connectivity.
<end quote>

I suspect that LSP in this context stands for Link State Packet and not for=
 Label Switched Path.

If my understanding is correct, is this observation worth an Editorial Erra=
ta?


Regards,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have found the following <span style=3D"background=
:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">
problematic text</span> in Section 10.1.2 of RFC 5882:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;quote&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; If multiple topologies are used t=
o support multiple data protocols (or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; multiple classes of service of th=
e same data protocol), the topology-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; specific path associated with a f=
ailing BFD session should no longer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; be advertised in IS-IS
<span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Label Switched Paths=
</span> (LSPs) in order to signal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; a lack of connectivity.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;end quote&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suspect that LSP in this context stands for <span =
style=3D"background:lime;mso-highlight:lime">
Link State Packet</span> and not for <span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-h=
ighlight:yellow">
Label Switched Path</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If my understanding is correct, is this observation =
worth an Editorial Errata?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Office: &#43;972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;972-5492663=
02<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Subject: Re: Problematic text in RFC 5882
Thread-Topic: Problematic text in RFC 5882
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 12:17:40 +0000
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From: "Nitish Gupta (nitisgup)" <nitisgup@cisco.com>
To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-02.txt
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-02.txt
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Hi Chris,

We have taken care of all the comments that WG had given on this draft and
the below version of the draft has all the updates:

URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-04.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-04
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-0=
4

Major updates that we have done in this version:
1. Added few Variables for VRRP Protocol for P2P mode of operation.

2. Included State Machine for VRRP in the case of P2P BFD mode of
operation.
   Which outlines the details of how to form the Peer table and when to
start and stop the BFD sessions.

3. We have also updated the p2mp Section with the comments that you had
given, for the source ip to use in the P2mp BFD packets.
   We have also mentioned the state machine of VRRP in the mode of
operation, Just to outline the interactions VRRP will have with Multipoint
BFD.
   This is for making it explicit in the state machine.
   Although there is no update to the Protocol state machine in this case,
we have mentioned this in the document.

4. IANA considerations updated in the document to allocate the namespace
for VRRP Packet types.


If there are no further comments on the draft we would like to ask the WG
for Adoption. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks,

Nitish

On 20/01/16, 12:36 PM, "Nitish Gupta (nitisgup)" <nitisgup@cisco.com>
wrote:

>Hi Chris,
>
>Thanks for your comments. We would like to take care of the comments you
>have given before we ask the WG for adoption.
>
>Thanks,
>Nitish
>
>On 20/01/16 1:23 am, "Chris Bowers" <cbowers@juniper.net> wrote:
>
>>Nitish and co-authors,
>>
>>I have read this draft and have several comments below.  In general, I
>>prefer that authors address outstanding comments in a new revision before
>>we conduct a poll for adoption in RTGWG.  Since an adoption poll usually
>>triggers quite a few people read a draft in detail, it makes better use
>>of the working groups time to have them reading the most up-to-date
>>version.  However, an argument could also be made for filling in some of
>>the additional detail that I am asking for below after WG adoption
>>(assuming it is adopted), when the WG has more direct control of the
>>document.   So I am open to either approach.
>>
>>So please respond to the feedback below and tell me if you would like to
>>address some of it in a new revision before I conduct a poll for WG
>>adoption, or if you would prefer to do the WG adoption poll using the
>>current revision.  There has also been feedback from others on this draft
>>in response to your email, so you should respond to that as well.
>>
>>In general, I think the draft would benefit from specifying the VRRP
>>state machine for this BFD mode of operation at the same level of detail
>>that RFC5798 specifies the existing VRRP state machine.   There are
>>several places where it is probably possible to infer the correct
>>behavior, but making it very explicit will make for a better document.
>>
>>1) Section 3.5 of this draft defines the Critical BFD session which is
>>the BFD session between the VRRP Master and the next best VRRP backup.
>>In the existing VRRP state machine, a VRRP router in the backup state is
>>not able to determine if it is the next best VRRP backup.  Presumably, in
>>the VRRP state machine for the BFD mode of operation, a VRRP router in
>>the backup state will look at the peer table populated by the Backup
>>Advertisements and figure out which router is the next best VRRP router
>>based on highest priority value with highest IPvX address as tie breaker.
>> However, it would be better to be as explicit as RFC5798 about how this
>>new state machine operates.
>>
>>2) Section 5 says that "To reduce the number of packets generated at a
>>regular interval, Backup Advert packets may be sent at a reduced rate as
>>compared to Advert packets sent by the VRRP Master."  It seems that the
>>state machine for VRRP BFD mode will have to be enhanced in some way to
>>support this.  One  way to do this would be for each router to have a
>>Backup_Advertisement_Interval which it uses to populate the Maximum
>>Advertisement Interval in the BACKUP ADVERTISEMENT, and have each
>>receiving router maintain a Peer_Advert_Interval(P) for each peer(P), and
>>remove a peer entry when a BACKUP ADVERTISEMENT is not received from P
>>for 3* Peer_Advert_Interval(P).  But this is just one possible approach.
>>In any case,  it would be good to choose a mechanism and describe the
>>corresponding state machine.
>>
>>3) The text should clarify how the VRRP state machine interacts with the
>>BFD state machine.   One can imagine scenarios where a BFD session stays
>>up but the VRRP advertisements stop being received, or vice versa.  This
>>scenario is not very far-fetched because BFD may use unicast and VRRP
>>uses multicast.  Behavior can probably be inferred from existing text,
>>but I think more precision is better here.
>>
>>4) I don't understand Section 4 which describes how to use p2mp BFD.
>>
>>A) The text says that "The Master router starts transmitting BFD control
>>packets with VRID as source IP address."  According to RFC5798, the VRID
>>is an integer in the range from 1-255.  Is the idea to encode the integer
>>VRID as an IP address?   Or should the BFD control packets be sent with
>>the source IP address set to an IPvX address associated with the virtual
>>router?  Or are both used?  In any case, it seems like this needs
>>clarification.
>>
>>B) What is the destination IP address of the p2mp BFD control packet?  Is
>>it 224.0.0.18 or FF02:0:0:0:0:0:0:12, then IPv4 and IPv6 multicast
>>addresses for VRRP?  If so, this should be made explicit.
>>
>>C) Again, a state machine description would help readers and future
>>implementers understand exactly what is intended.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Chris
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nitish Gupta
>>(nitisgup)
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 3:31 AM
>>To: rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
>>Cc: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>; Jeff Haas
>><jhaas@juniper.net>; colin@doch.org.uk; Aditya Dogra (addogra)
>><addogra@cisco.com>
>>Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-02.txt
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>We had presented the Draft for VRRP BFD integration in IETF 93 and we had
>>taken care of all the comments that came as part of the WG meeting.
>>We had also merged the two drafts as per the comments in IETF 93:
>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-01
>>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-00
>>
>>We had presented the merged draft in IETF 94 and there were no specific
>>comments on the draft.
>>We would like to ask the RTGWG to adopt the Draft as a WG document.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Nitish
>>
>>
>>On 26/10/15 11:57 am, "Nitish Gupta (nitisgup)" <nitisgup@cisco.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>We have submitted a new version of the draft. As discussed in IETF 93
>>>at prague.
>>>
>>>We have merged the following drafts:
>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-01
>>>
>>>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>We have also taken care of all the comments that were discussed in the
>>>RTGWG meeting.
>>>We welcome any comments and suggestions on the draft.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Nitish
>>>
>>>On 13/10/15 9:09 pm, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"
>>><internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>A new version of I-D, draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-02.txt has been
>>>>successfully submitted by Nitish Gupta and posted to the IETF
>>>>repository.
>>>>
>>>>Name:		draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd
>>>>Revision:	02
>>>>Title:		Fast failure detection in VRRP with BFD
>>>>Document date:	2015-10-13
>>>>Group:		Individual Submission
>>>>Pages:		10
>>>>URL:          =20
>>>>https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-02.txt
>>>>Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd/
>>>>Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-02
>>>>Diff:         =20
>>>>https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-02
>>>>
>>>>Abstract:
>>>>   This document describes how Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
>>>>   can be used to support sub-second detection of a Master Router
>>>>   failure in the Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol (VRRP).
>>>>
>>>>              =20
>>>>       =20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>>>submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>>>>tools.ietf.org.
>>>>
>>>>The IETF Secretariat
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>rtgwg mailing list
>>rtgwg@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg
>


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Subject: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC5882 (4812)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC5882,
"Generic Application of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=5882&eid=4812

--------------------------------------
Type: Editorial
Reported by: Alexander ("Sasha") Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>

Section: 10.1.2

Original Text
-------------
   IS-IS may be used to support only one data protocol, or multiple data
   protocols.  [ISIS] specifies a common topology for multiple data
   protocols, but work is under way to support multiple topologies.  If
   multiple topologies are used to support multiple data protocols (or
   multiple classes of service of the same data protocol), the topology-
   specific path associated with a failing BFD session should no longer
   be advertised in IS-IS Label Switched Paths (LSPs) in order to signal
   a lack of connectivity.

Corrected Text
--------------
   IS-IS may be used to support only one data protocol, or multiple data
   protocols.  [ISIS] specifies a common topology for multiple data
   protocols, but work is under way to support multiple topologies.  If
   multiple topologies are used to support multiple data protocols (or
   multiple classes of service of the same data protocol), the topology-
   specific path associated with a failing BFD session should no longer
   be advertised in IS-IS Link State Packets (LSPs) in order to signal
   a lack of connectivity.

Notes
-----
In the context of this section (that discusses usage of BFD sessions for detection of failure of an IS-IS adjacency) the abbreviation "LSP" should be expanded as "Link State Packet" and not as "Label Switched Path". 

>From my POV this is an editorial erratum since I believe the readers of the RFC understand what the authors wanted to say.

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--------------------------------------
RFC5882 (draft-ietf-bfd-generic-05)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Generic Application of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
Publication Date    : June 2010
Author(s)           : D. Katz, D. Ward
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Subject: [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC5882 (4812)
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The following errata report has been held for document update 
for RFC5882, "Generic Application of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=5882&eid=4812

--------------------------------------
Status: Held for Document Update
Type: Editorial

Reported by: Alexander ("Sasha") Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Date Reported: 2016-09-27
Held by: Alvaro Retana (IESG)

Section: 10.1.2

Original Text
-------------
   IS-IS may be used to support only one data protocol, or multiple data
   protocols.  [ISIS] specifies a common topology for multiple data
   protocols, but work is under way to support multiple topologies.  If
   multiple topologies are used to support multiple data protocols (or
   multiple classes of service of the same data protocol), the topology-
   specific path associated with a failing BFD session should no longer
   be advertised in IS-IS Label Switched Paths (LSPs) in order to signal
   a lack of connectivity.

Corrected Text
--------------
   IS-IS may be used to support only one data protocol, or multiple data
   protocols.  [ISIS] specifies a common topology for multiple data
   protocols, but work is under way to support multiple topologies.  If
   multiple topologies are used to support multiple data protocols (or
   multiple classes of service of the same data protocol), the topology-
   specific path associated with a failing BFD session should no longer
   be advertised in IS-IS Link State Packets (LSPs) in order to signal
   a lack of connectivity.

Notes
-----
In the context of this section (that discusses usage of BFD sessions for detection of failure of an IS-IS adjacency) the abbreviation "LSP" should be expanded as "Link State Packet" and not as "Label Switched Path". 

>From my POV this is an editorial erratum since I believe the readers of the RFC understand what the authors wanted to say.

--------------------------------------
RFC5882 (draft-ietf-bfd-generic-05)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Generic Application of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
Publication Date    : June 2010
Author(s)           : D. Katz, D. Ward
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
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From nobody Thu Sep 29 08:44:16 2016
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From: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
To: "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: WG adoption poll on draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-04
Thread-Topic: WG adoption poll on draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-04
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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:44:06 +0000
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RTGWG,

This email starts a two week poll to gauge consensus on adopting draft-niti=
sh-vrrp-bfd-04
as an RTGWG working group document.

The BFD working group is also copied on this adoption poll.  We encourage p=
articipants in
BFD working group to provide their input on the adoption poll.  And should =
this document
be adopted as an RTGWG document, we would plan to copy the BFD WG on emails
related to this document to benefit from the BFD expertise in that WG in th=
e development
of this document.

Please send your comments to the RTGWG mailing list (rtgwg@ietf.org<mailto:=
rtgwg@ietf.org>) indicating support
or opposition to the adoption of this document, along with the reasoning fo=
r that support
or opposition.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond to th=
is email stating
whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR.   The response needs to b=
e sent to the
RTGWG mailing list. The document will not advance to the next stage until a=
 response has
been received from each author and each individual that has contributed to =
the document.

At this point, the document has the following IPR disclosure associated wit=
h it.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2739/

This adoption poll will end on Friday October 14th.

Thanks,
Chris and Jeff



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<font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">
<div>RTGWG,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>This email starts a two week poll to gauge consensus on adopting draft=
-nitish-vrrp-bfd-04</div>
<div>as an RTGWG working group document.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The BFD working group is also copied on this adoption poll.&nbsp; We e=
ncourage participants in </div>
<div>BFD working group to provide their input on the adoption poll.&nbsp; A=
nd should this document</div>
<div>be adopted as an RTGWG document, we would plan to copy the BFD WG on e=
mails </div>
<div>related to this document to benefit from the BFD expertise in that WG =
in the development </div>
<div>of this document.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Please send your comments to the RTGWG mailing list (<a href=3D"mailto=
:rtgwg@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0563C1"><u>rtgwg@ietf.org</u></font></a>) =
indicating support </div>
<div>or opposition to the adoption of this document, along with the reasoni=
ng for that support</div>
<div>or opposition.&nbsp; </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond =
to this email stating</div>
<div>whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; The resp=
onse needs to be sent to the </div>
<div>RTGWG mailing list. The document will not advance to the next stage un=
til a response has</div>
<div>been received from each author and each individual that has contribute=
d to the document.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>At this point, the document has the following IPR disclosure associate=
d with it.</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2739/"><font color=3D"#056=
3C1"><u>https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2739/</u></font></a></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>This adoption poll will end on Friday October 14<font size=3D"1"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:7.3pt;"><sup>th</sup></span></font>.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Chris and Jeff</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</span></font>
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From nobody Thu Sep 29 10:36:51 2016
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From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" <session_request_developers@ietf.org>
To: <session-request@ietf.org>
Subject: bfd - Not having a session at IETF 97
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Jeffrey Haas, a chair of the bfd working group, indicated that the bfd working group does not plan to hold a session at IETF 97.

This message was generated and sent by the IETF Meeting Session Request Tool.


