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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 11:34:00 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmWLNeJcbg2hPu2JOe5KqJ-8PhtPbbYFNYrE3-H-HnAjMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01.txt
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--94eb2c0d8ea8fe2ba9055abcd9cf
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear All,
updates to the draft include the new mechanism to use VRRP control message
to bootstrap p2mp BFD session within given VRID domain. To the best of our
knowledge and understanding the current mechanism defined in the draft is
sufficiently different from IPR disclosure
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2739/.

Appreciate your comments, questions.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:39 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for
draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01.txt
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Jeff Tantsura <
jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case
Revision:       01
Title:          Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for Multi-point
Networks and Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol (VRRP) Use Case
Document date:  2017-10-03
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          6
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-
vrrp-use-case-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-
vrrp-use-case/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-
use-case-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-
p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-
vrrp-use-case-01

Abstract:
   This document discusses use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
   (BFD) for multi-point networks to provide Virtual Router Redundancy
   Protocol (VRRP) with sub-second Master convergence and defines the
   extension to bootstrap point-to-multipoint BFD session.


Hello,
your help with manual posting of this draft is greatly appreciated. Both
authors changed their affiliation and cannot confirm submission through
regular process.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Regards,
Greg

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--94eb2c0d8ea8fe2ba9055abcd9cf
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>updates to the draft include the new mechani=
sm to use VRRP control message to bootstrap p2mp BFD session within given V=
RID domain. To the best of our knowledge and understanding the current mech=
anism defined in the draft is sufficiently different from IPR disclosure=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2739/">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/ipr/2739/</a>.</div><div><br></div><div>Appreciate your comments, q=
uestions.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <=
b class=3D"gmail_sendername"></b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i=
nternet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: W=
ed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:39 AM<br>Subject: New Version Notification for draft-=
mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01.txt<br>To: Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;<br><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-<wbr>use-case-01.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-<w=
br>use-case<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A001<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection=
 (BFD) for Multi-point Networks and Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol (VRR=
P) Use Case<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-10-03<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 6<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01.txt" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draft-mi=
rsky-bfd-p2mp-<wbr>vrrp-use-case-01.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-<wb=
r>vrrp-use-case/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-<wbr>use-case=
-01</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-<wb=
r>p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-bfd-p2mp-vrrp-use-case-01" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-b=
fd-p2mp-<wbr>vrrp-use-case-01</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document discusses use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detect=
ion<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(BFD) for multi-point networks to provide Virtual Router Redun=
dancy<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Protocol (VRRP) with sub-second Master convergence and defines=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0extension to bootstrap point-to-multipoint BFD session.<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
your help with manual posting of this draft is greatly appreciated. Both au=
thors changed their affiliation and cannot confirm submission through regul=
ar process.<br>
Please let me know if you have any further questions.<br>
<br>
Thank you in advance for your help.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
</div><br></div></div>

--94eb2c0d8ea8fe2ba9055abcd9cf--


From nobody Wed Oct  4 12:16:02 2017
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From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>,  "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
Thread-Index: AQHTEsardUdhCyxqXUiFhH3vY6n7oKJ/v9eAgACYlQCABCd3gIAAZg6AgACARYD//+32kIBPYcuA//+2iOA=
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 19:47:55 +0000
Message-ID: <0cefc1ddee8e4e77b56392095cc8d2d7@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com>
References: <20170811053550.27303B81263@rfc-editor.org> <20170811173930.GJ24942@pfrc.org> <E2844FE2-9C88-4410-A7A2-7F8AE0567E78@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmU13-Ba2mDROiWtV4Aai_rtZDZ7PzEK0GGgE+ESa9JTNQ@mail.gmail.com> <7501E817-C95E-410A-A91E-080B36B213BE@cisco.com> <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE29187C3DD@dggeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <4bb63466962c4957a594e73163329940@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <3D83F334-5ABC-4CD3-AF14-5D4537671D19@juniper.net>
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:26:23 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>,  "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>,  "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>,  "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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Hi Kireeti, Les, et. al,
I agree and support the proposed changes, including the most recent
proposed by Kireeti.
If errata report can be used to record the changes - absolutely great.
I hope that the errata report that triggered this discussion will be
processed and marked accordingly.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.co=
m
> wrote:

> Kireeti =E2=80=93
>
>
>
> The text I proposed below (3 paragraph=E2=80=99s worth) is intended to =
=E2=80=9Creplace
> current paragraphs 2 and 3 of Section 6=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> I am fine with changing
>
>
>
>      =E2=80=9CThe egress LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029]=
=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> To
>
>
>
>      =E2=80=9CThe egress LSR MUST follow the procedures defined in [RFC 8=
029]=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Mach and Greg should speak for themselves =E2=80=93 but I had the impress=
ion that
> Mach was agreeable =E2=80=93 but Greg I am not so sure about.
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 04, 2017 12:06 PM
> *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Mach Chen <
> mach.chen@huawei.com>; Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com>;
> Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>; mpls@ietf.org; Alia Atlas <
> akatlas@gmail.com>; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com>;
> rtg-bfd@ietf. org <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>; Kireeti Kompella <
> kireeti@juniper.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
>
>
>
> Hi Les,
>
>
>
> Just to be sure, you=E2=80=99re suggesting
>
> a)       Change the sentence =E2=80=9CThe egress LSR MAY respond =E2=80=
=A6 BFD session.=E2=80=9D
> to =E2=80=9CThe egress LSR follows the procedures =E2=80=A6 reply message=
.=E2=80=9D  (or better
> yet, =E2=80=9CThe egress LSR MUST follow the procedures =E2=80=A6.=E2=80=
=9D)
>
> b)      Move this sentence to after the BFD stuff.
>
> c)       Remove the redundant comma (sigh!  Thought I knew commas.)
>
>
>
> I am fine with all three suggestions.  I think that the main point (the
> source of interop issues) is (a); the other changes definitely improve
> readability, but are not showstoppers (imo).
>
>
>
> I gather from Greg=E2=80=99s latest email (2017/09/08) and Mach=E2=80=99s=
 email below that
> they=E2=80=99re both fine with these changes.  Greg, Mach: speak up if no=
t.
>
>
>
> As for =E2=80=9Cnew interop issues=E2=80=9D, the current situation is pre=
tty bad, so let=E2=80=99s
> fix it.
>
>
>
> As to how to implement these changes, I don=E2=80=99t personally care.  I=
t seems
> heavyweight to issue a bis for this, rather than just errata, but I=E2=80=
=99m happy
> to leave that to the WG chairs to decide.
>
>
>
> Kireeti.
>
>
>
> *From: *"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 05:16
> *To: *Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <
> cpignata@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.or=
g>,
> Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>,
> "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
>
>
>
> I tend to agree with Mach =E2=80=93 and I think what Mach states is also
> reinforcing the point that Carlos has made =E2=80=93 which is that echo r=
eply
> procedures are defined by RFC 8029 =E2=80=93 not by RFC 5884.
>
>
>
> However, the current text suffers from much more than the ambiguity
> regarding Echo Reply.
>
>
>
> 1)Second paragraph of Section 6 goes back and forth between discussing BF=
D
> Control packets, then Echo Reply, then BFD Control Packets
>
>
>
> 2)Third paragraph of Section 6 has an inappropriate use of =E2=80=9C,=E2=
=80=9D in the
> sentence:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CThe BFD Control packets from the
>
>    ingress to the egress LSR MUST set the local discriminator of the
>
>    egress *LSR, in *the Your Discriminator field.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> 3)Section 6.1 defines when the BFD Discriminator TLV MUST be sent and whe=
n
> it is optional in LSP ping. There is actually no need for Section 6 to sa=
y
> anything in this regard.
>
>
>
> I propose revised text below =E2=80=93 which is much more extensive in it=
s changes
> than what has been proposed thus far, but I think it is necessary to
> eliminate all ambiguity.
>
> That said, there is no question that the current text is subject to
> multiple interpretations =E2=80=93 so any change in text runs the risk of
> introducing new interoperability issues. On balance it is probably
> necessary to take this risk as there is no guarantee that implementations
> are interoperable today, but the WG should still consider this point
> carefully.
>
>
>
> The text below replaces current paragraphs 2 and 3 of Section 6.
>
>
>
> *<new text start>*
>
> *On receipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message, the egress LSR MUST*
>
> *   send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if the validation of*
>
> *   the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message succeeds.  This BFD*
>
> *   Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator field to the*
>
> *   discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the LSP Ping Echo*
>
> *   request message.    The local discriminator assigned by the egress LS=
R*
>
> *   MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the BFD session packets=
*
>
> *   sent by the egress LSR.*
>
>
>
> *   The ingress LSR follows the procedures in [BFD] to send BFD Control*
>
> *   packets to the egress LSR in response to the BFD Control packets*
>
> *   received from the egress LSR.  The BFD Control packets from the*
>
> *   ingress to the egress LSR MUST set the local discriminator of the*
>
> *   egress LSR in the Your Discriminator field.  The egress LSR*
>
> *   demultiplexes the BFD session based on the received Your*
>
> *   Discriminator field.  As mentioned above, the egress LSR MUST send*
>
> *   Control packets to the ingress LSR with the Your Discriminator field*
>
> *   set to the local discriminator of the ingress LSR.  The ingress LSR*
>
> *   uses this to demultiplex the BFD session.*
>
>
>
> *  The egress LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029] to
> determine when to respond with an LSP Ping Echo  reply message.*
>
> *<new text end>*
>
>
>
>     Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org
> <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org>] *On Behalf Of *Mach Chen
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:56 AM
> *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Greg Mirsky
> *Cc:* Tom Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org; Kireeti Kompella (kireeti@juniper.net);
> Alia Atlas; Reshad Rahman (rrahman); rtg-bfd@ietf. org
> *Subject:* RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> IMHO, the point is not about whether the Echo Reply is optional for a
> normal LSP Ping, where the echo reply is totally controlled by the reply
> mode.
>
>
>
> For RFC5884, since the reply mode is not specified, based on the current
> text, it can be interpreted as the following two ways:
>
> 1)      it implies a new =E2=80=9Cmode=E2=80=9D introduced, it=E2=80=99s =
actually a =E2=80=9Cspecial=E2=80=9D LSP
> Ping,  the process is just as what is currently described in the RFC: an
> Echo Reply is OPTINAL, whether and when to send Echo Reply is up to the
> egress LSR, and the Ingress LSR should not assume an Echo reply will be
> returned;
>
> 2)      the echo reply is still controlled by the reply mode, and given
> that there is a =E2=80=9CDo not reply=E2=80=9D mode, the current text see=
ms right, but not
> that clear.
>
>
>
> I incline to think way (2) is more nature, if so,  the proposed =E2=80=9C=
Corrected
> Text=E2=80=9D may not work if the Sender set the reply mode to =E2=80=9CD=
o not reply=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99d suggest:
>
>
>
> Original Text
> -------------
> The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
> reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
> the BFD session.
>
>
>
> NEW:
>
> The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
> reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
> the BFD session. Whether to send an LSP Ping Echo reply message is
>
> determined by the reply mode carried the received Echo request message.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mach
>
>
>
> *From:* Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org
> <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org>] *On Behalf Of *Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:17 AM
> *To:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>; mpls@ietf.org; Kireeti
> Kompella (kireeti@juniper.net) <kireeti@juniper.net>; Alia Atlas <
> akatlas@gmail.com>; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com>;
> rtg-bfd@ietf. org <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
>
>
>
> Greg,
>
>
>
> This is my final email on this topic, since the arguments are now just
> silly and not technically constructive.
>
>
>
> 1. It's not about understanding English. It's about understanding specs!
> The "(if any)" that you quote means there are situations in which there's
> no echo reply. As I already explained to you, that's for example the case
> with Reply-mode: No-reply. However, the "(if any)" does not mean an Echo
> Reply is OPTIONAL. !! Or that you choose when a reply is not sent!!
>
> 2. RFC 8029 obsoleted 4379. But to my recollection, nothing changed
> relevant to this Errata.
>
>
>
> BFD for MPLS could have updated LSP ping behavior -- it just didn't.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> thank you for sharing your view on how LSP Echo request with BFD
> Discriminator used to bootstrap a BFD session over MPLS LSP. I'm surprise=
d
> that you refer to RFC 8029 as normative reference when commenting on RFC
> 5884. But even if we look into RFC 8029, it still has the same texts I've
> quoted in the previous note that suggest that echo reply is optional.
> Consider one of them "The Sender's Handle is filled in by the sender and
> returned unchanged by the receiver in the echo reply (if any)." Though
> English is my third language, I interpret "if any" in that sentence as
> clear indication that the echo reply may not be sent ever.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff, WG,
>
>
>
> I believe there is one additional consideration =E2=80=94 please see inli=
ne.
>
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> [Note that I have adjusted the addresses in the headers to try to catch t=
he
> RFC authors' current accounts.]
>
>
> The 5884 interop issue keeps bubbling up.  Balaji submitted an errata,
> which
> provides us with a good place to start technical discussion.
>
> Please note I also spent some time off-list discussing this errata with
> Balaji.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 10:35:50PM -0700, RFC Errata System wrote:
>
> Section: 6
>
> Original Text
> -------------
> The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
> reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
> the BFD session.
>
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> The egress LSR MUST respond with an LSP Ping Echo reply message that
> MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for the BFD session.
>
>
> Notes
> -----
> It is not clear from the original text which of the following is optional=
:
>  -  The egress MUST send a reply, but the discriminator in the reply is
> optional
>  -  The reply itself is optional
>
> Technically, the reply cannot be optional, because the egress needs to
> report LSP-Ping verification status to the ingress.
>
>
>
> This is correct =E2=80=94 but even more so, technically, it is not up to =
RFC 5884
> to define when an LSP-Ping reply is optional or not.
>
>
>
> That=E2=80=99s=E2=80=99 up to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section=
-4.4
>
>
>
> Lacking a Reply Mode set to "Do not reply" (https://tools.ietf.org/html/
> rfc8029#page-12) the RFC 8029 procedures dictate a response be sent,
> independent of whether the RFC 5884 procedures use that information or no=
t.
>
>
>
> More below.
>
>
>
>
> The proposed text recommends to include BFD discriminator in the reply.
> This was the intent of the original text.
>
>
> My opinion follows:
>
> In section 6 -
>
> :    On receipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message, the egress LSR MUST
> :    send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if the validation of
> :    the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message succeeds.  This BFD
> :    Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator field to the
> :    discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the LSP Ping Echo
> :    request message.  The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
> :    reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it fo=
r
> :    the BFD session.  The local discriminator assigned by the egress LSR
> :    MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the BFD session packet=
s
> :    sent by the egress LSR.
>
> In the text above, I consider it quite clear that the receipt of the BFD
> packet contains sufficient state to bring up the BFD session.  The receip=
t
> of the same Discriminator in the LSP Ping Echo Reply is optional.
>
> This makes sense partially because the reply may be dropped and we want t=
he
> BFD session to come up as fast as possible.
>
>
>
> Yes, especially because the first sentence says that the egress sending a
> BFD Control packet implies FEC validation passed. However,
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4 does more than FEC
> validation.
>
>
>
>
> The point of contention appears to be what to do if we *never* get such
> replies.  It's worth pointing out additional text in RFC 5884, section 3.=
2.
>
> :    Hence, BFD is used in conjunction with LSP Ping for MPLS LSP fault
> :    detection:
> :
> :       i) LSP Ping is used for bootstrapping the BFD session as describe=
d
> :          later in this document.
> :
> :      ii) BFD is used to exchange fault detection (i.e., BFD session)
> :          packets at the required detection interval.
> :
> :     iii) LSP Ping is used to periodically verify the control plane
> :          against the data plane by ensuring that the LSP is mapped to
> :          the same FEC, at the egress, as the ingress.
>
> iii above reminds us that the LSP may be torn down because LSP Ping fails=
.
> Thus, it seems problematic that we do not get a reply ever.
>
> However, with the BFD session in the Up state, we have information provin=
g
> that the LSP is up.  Thus we have contradictory intent.
>
> ---
>
> My opinion is that the MAY in the RFC 5884 procedures is intended to have
> the BFD session come up by the most expedient means.  I do not believe th=
e
> likely intent was to say "don't send Echo Reply".  Among other things, th=
at
> seems contrary to the intent of the general LSP Ping procedures.
>
> Having given my personal observations, we now get to the business of the
> Working Group: Debating intent and related text.
>
>
>
> My individual opinion is that, as written, RFC 5884 cannot mean any other
> thing that =E2=80=9C The egress LSR MUST respond with an LSP Ping Echo re=
ply
> message that
>
> MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for the BFD session=E2=
=80=9D.
>
>
>
> In other words, I support this errata.
>
>
>
> This is because RFC 5884 did not update RFC 4379=E2=80=99s procedures. An=
d thus a
> response is needed based on 8029 irregardless of whether 5884 uses it.
>
>
>
> That said, it is debatable whether that LSP Ping response is useful or
> not. If it is not sent, it does not comply to 8029. But if the WG wants f=
or
> it to be not send, a new spec is needed.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> -- Jeff
>
>
>
> =E2=80=94
>
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Kireeti, Les, et. al,<div>I agree and support the propo=
sed changes, including the most recent proposed by Kireeti.</div><div>If er=
rata report can be used to record the changes - absolutely great.</div><div=
>I hope that the errata report that triggered this discussion will be proce=
ssed and marked accordingly.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Gr=
eg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_1665591081177190020WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Kireeti =E2=80=93<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The text I proposed below (3 paragrap=
h=E2=80=99s worth) is intended to =E2=80=9Creplace current paragraphs 2 and=
 3 of Section 6=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am fine with changing
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CThe=
 egress LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029]=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">To
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CThe=
 egress LSR
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:red">MUST follow
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f497d">the procedures defined in [RFC 8029]=E2=80=A6=E2=80=
=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Mach and Greg should speak for themse=
lves =E2=80=93 but I had the impression that Mach was agreeable =E2=80=93 b=
ut Greg I am not so sure about.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Kireeti Kompella [mailto:<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kireeti@juniper.net</a>=
]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 04, 2017 12:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Mach Chen &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mach.chen@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">mach.chen@huawei.com</a>&gt;; =
Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tom Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=
=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ak=
atlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Reshad Rahman=
 (rrahman) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">rrahm=
an@cisco.com</a>&gt;; rtg-bfd@ietf. org &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Kireeti Kompella &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kireeti@juniper.net</a>=
&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)<u></u><u></u=
></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Les,<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Just to be sure, you=E2=80=99re suggesting<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif"><span>a)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Change the sentence =E2=80=9CThe egress LSR MA=
Y respond =E2=80=A6 BFD session.=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CThe egress LSR follow=
s the procedures =E2=80=A6 reply message.=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 (or better yet, =
=E2=80=9CThe egress LSR MUST
 follow the procedures =E2=80=A6.=E2=80=9D)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif"><span>b)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Move this sentence to after the BFD stuff.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif"><span>c)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Remove the redundant comma (sigh!=C2=A0 Though=
t I knew commas.)<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I am fine with all three suggestions.=C2=A0 I think=
 that the main point (the source of interop issues) is (a); the other chang=
es definitely improve readability, but are not showstoppers
 (imo).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I gather from Greg=E2=80=99s latest email (2017/09/=
08) and Mach=E2=80=99s email below that they=E2=80=99re both fine with thes=
e changes.=C2=A0 Greg, Mach: speak up if not.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">As for =E2=80=9Cnew interop issues=E2=80=9D, the cu=
rrent situation is pretty bad, so let=E2=80=99s fix it.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">As to how to implement these changes, I don=E2=80=
=99t personally care.=C2=A0 It seems heavyweight to issue a bis for this, r=
ather than just errata, but I=E2=80=99m happy to leave that to the WG
 chairs to decide.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Kireeti.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From: </span></b><spa=
n style=3D"color:black">&quot;Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 05:16<br>
<b>To: </b>Mach Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">mach.chen@huawei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cis=
co.com</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Tom Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=
=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mp=
ls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Kireeti Kompella &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kireeti@juniper.ne=
t</a>&gt;,
 Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akat=
las@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Reshad Rahman (rrahman)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:rrahman@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">rrahman@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot=
;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.%20org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf. org=
</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bf=
d@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I tend to agree with Mach =E2=80=93 a=
nd I think what Mach states is also reinforcing the point that Carlos has m=
ade =E2=80=93 which is that echo reply procedures are defined
 by RFC 8029 =E2=80=93 not by RFC 5884.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">However, the current text suffers fro=
m much more than the ambiguity regarding Echo Reply.</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">1)Second paragraph of Section 6 goes =
back and forth between discussing BFD Control packets, then Echo Reply, the=
n BFD Control Packets</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">2)Third paragraph of Section 6 has an=
 inappropriate use of =E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D in the sentence:
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=E2=80=9CThe BFD Control packets from=
 the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0 ingress to the egress LS=
R MUST set the local discriminator of the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0 egress
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:red">LSR, in
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1f497d">the Your Discriminator field.=E2=80=9D</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">3)Section 6.1 defines when the BFD Di=
scriminator TLV MUST be sent and when it is optional in LSP ping. There is =
actually no need for Section 6 to say anything
 in this regard.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I propose revised text below =E2=80=
=93 which is much more extensive in its changes than what has been proposed=
 thus far, but I think it is necessary to eliminate all
 ambiguity.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">That said, there is no question that =
the current text is subject to multiple interpretations =E2=80=93 so any ch=
ange in text runs the risk of introducing new interoperability
 issues. On balance it is probably necessary to take this risk as there is =
no guarantee that implementations are interoperable today, but the WG shoul=
d still consider this point carefully.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The text below replaces current parag=
raphs 2 and 3 of Section 6.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&lt;new=
 text start&gt;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">On rece=
ipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message, the egress LSR MUST</span></i><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if the validation of</=
span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message succeeds.=C2=A0 This BF=
D</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator field to the</span></=
i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the LSP Ping Echo</sp=
an></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 request message.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0The local discriminator assigned =
by the egress LSR</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the BFD session packet=
s</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 sent by the egress LSR.</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0<=
/span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 The ingress LSR follows the procedures in [BFD] to send BFD Control<=
/span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 packets to the egress LSR in response to the BFD Control packets</sp=
an></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 received from the egress LSR.=C2=A0 The BFD Control packets from the=
</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 ingress to the egress LSR MUST set the local discriminator of the</s=
pan></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 egress LSR in the Your Discriminator field.=C2=A0 The egress LSR</sp=
an></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 demultiplexes the BFD session based on the received Your</span></i><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 Discriminator field.=C2=A0 As mentioned above, the egress LSR MUST s=
end</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 Control packets to the ingress LSR with the Your Discriminator field=
</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 set to the local discriminator of the ingress LSR.=C2=A0 The ingress=
 LSR</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 uses this to demultiplex the BFD session.</span></i><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0<=
/span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0 =
The egress LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029] to determine wh=
en to respond with an LSP Ping Echo=C2=A0 reply message.</span></i><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&lt;new=
 text end&gt;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Rtg-bfd [<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-b=
fd-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.<wbr>org=
</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mach Chen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tom Nadeau; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">m=
pls@ietf.org</a>; Kireeti Kompella (<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" =
target=3D"_blank">kireeti@juniper.net</a>); Alia Atlas; Reshad Rahman (rrah=
man); rtg-bfd@ietf. org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi all,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">IMHO, the point is not about whether =
the Echo Reply is optional for a normal LSP Ping, where the echo reply is t=
otally controlled by the reply mode.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">For RFC5884, since the reply mode is =
not specified, based on the current text, it can be interpreted as the foll=
owing two ways:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_1665591081177190020MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">1)</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f497d">it implies a new =E2=80=9Cmode=E2=80=9D introduced, i=
t=E2=80=99s actually a =E2=80=9Cspecial=E2=80=9D LSP Ping, =C2=A0the proces=
s is just as what is currently described in the RFC: an Echo Reply is OPTIN=
AL, whether and
 when to send Echo Reply is up to the egress LSR, and the Ingress LSR shoul=
d not assume an Echo reply will be returned;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_1665591081177190020MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">2)</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f497d">the echo reply is still controlled by the reply mode,=
 and given that there is a =E2=80=9CDo not reply=E2=80=9D mode, the current=
 text seems right, but not that clear.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I incline to think way (2) is more na=
ture, if so, =C2=A0the proposed =E2=80=9CCorrected Text=E2=80=9D may not wo=
rk if the Sender set the reply mode to =E2=80=9CDo not reply=E2=80=9D.</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I=E2=80=99d suggest:</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Original Text<br>
-------------<br>
The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo<br>
reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for<br>
the BFD session.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo<br>
reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for<br>
the BFD session. Whether to send an LSP Ping Echo reply message is <u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">determined by the reply mode carried the received Ec=
ho request message. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Best regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Mach</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Rtg-bfd [<a href=3D"mailto:rtg=
-bfd-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.<wbr>o=
rg</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tom Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=
=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Kiree=
ti Kompella (<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kiree=
ti@juniper.net</a>) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">kireeti@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
 Reshad Rahman (rrahman) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com" target=3D=
"_blank">rrahman@cisco.com</a>&gt;; rtg-bfd@ietf. org &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is my final email on this topic, since the argu=
ments are now just silly and not technically constructive.=C2=A0<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1. It&#39;s not about understanding English. It&#39;=
s about understanding specs! The &quot;(if any)&quot; that you quote means =
there are situations in which there&#39;s no echo reply. As I already expla=
ined to you, that&#39;s for example the case with Reply-mode:
 No-reply. However, the &quot;(if any)&quot; does not mean an Echo Reply is=
 OPTIONAL. !! Or that you choose when a reply is not sent!!<u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2. RFC 8029 obsoleted 4379. But to my recollection, =
nothing changed relevant to this Errata.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BFD for MPLS could have updated LSP ping behavior --=
 it just didn&#39;t.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Sent from my iPad<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Aug 14, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Carlos, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for sharing your view on how LSP Echo requ=
est with BFD Discriminator used to bootstrap a BFD session over MPLS LSP. I=
&#39;m surprised that you refer to RFC 8029 as normative reference when com=
menting on RFC 5884. But even if we look
 into RFC 8029, it still has the same texts I&#39;ve quoted in the previous=
 note that suggest that echo reply is optional. Consider one of them &quot;=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">The Sender&#39;s Handle is fil=
led in by the sender and returned unchanged=C2=A0by
 the receiver in the echo reply (if any).&quot; Though English is my third =
language, I interpret &quot;if any&quot; in that sentence as clear indicati=
on that the echo reply may not be sent ever.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Regards=
,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Greg</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Carlos Pignataro (c=
pignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpigna=
ta@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeff, WG, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe there is one additional consideration =E2=
=80=94 please see inline.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Aug 11, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; wrote:=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">[Note that I have adj=
usted the addresses in the headers to try to catch the<br>
RFC authors&#39; current accounts.]<br>
<br>
<br>
The 5884 interop issue keeps bubbling up.=C2=A0 Balaji submitted an errata,=
 which<br>
provides us with a good place to start technical discussion.<br>
<br>
Please note I also spent some time off-list discussing this errata with<br>
Balaji.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 10:35:50PM -0700, RFC Errata System wrote:<u></u><u=
></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section: 6<br>
<br>
Original Text<br>
-------------<br>
The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo<br>
reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for<br>
the BFD session.<br>
<br>
Corrected Text<br>
--------------<br>
The egress LSR MUST respond with an LSP Ping Echo reply message that<br>
MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for the BFD session.<br>
<br>
<br>
Notes<br>
-----<br>
It is not clear from the original text which of the following is optional:<=
br>
=C2=A0- =C2=A0The egress MUST send a reply, but the discriminator in the re=
ply is optional<br>
=C2=A0- =C2=A0The reply itself is optional<br>
<br>
Technically, the reply cannot be optional, because the egress needs to repo=
rt LSP-Ping verification status to the ingress.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is correct =E2=80=94 but even more so, technica=
lly, it is not up to RFC 5884 to define when an LSP-Ping reply is optional =
or not.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That=E2=80=99s=E2=80=99 up to=C2=A0<a href=3D"https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.=
ietf.org/<wbr>html/rfc8029#section-4.4</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Lacking a Reply Mode set to &quot;Do not reply&quot;=
 (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#page-12" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>rfc8029#page-12</a>) the RFC 8029 procedu=
res dictate a response be sent, independent of whether
 the RFC 5884 procedures use that information or not.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">More below.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span class=3D"m_1665=
591081177190020gmail-">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
The proposed text recommends to include BFD discriminator in the reply. Thi=
s was the intent of the original text.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
My opinion follows:<br>
<br>
In section 6 - <br>
<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0On receipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message, the eg=
ress LSR MUST<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if the va=
lidation of<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message succeeds.=
=C2=A0 This BFD<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator field to=
 the<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the LSP =
Ping Echo<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0request message.=C2=A0 The egress LSR MAY respond with =
an LSP Ping Echo<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0reply message that carries the local discriminator assi=
gned by it for<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the BFD session.=C2=A0 The local discriminator assigned=
 by the egress LSR<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the BFD s=
ession packets<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0sent by the egress LSR.<br>
<br>
In the text above, I consider it quite clear that the receipt of the BFD<br=
>
packet contains sufficient state to bring up the BFD session.=C2=A0 The rec=
eipt<br>
of the same Discriminator in the LSP Ping Echo Reply is optional.<br>
<br>
This makes sense partially because the reply may be dropped and we want the=
<br>
BFD session to come up as fast as possible.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes, especially because the first sentence says that=
 the egress sending a BFD Control packet implies FEC validation passed. How=
ever,=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.<wbr>org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4</a>=C2=
=A0<wbr>does
 more than FEC validation.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span class=3D"m_1665=
591081177190020gmail-">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
The point of contention appears to be what to do if we *never* get such<br>
replies.=C2=A0 It&#39;s worth pointing out additional text in RFC 5884, sec=
tion 3.2.<br>
<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Hence, BFD is used in conjunction with LSP Ping for MPL=
S LSP fault<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0detection:<br>
: <br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0i) LSP Ping is used for bootstrapping=
 the BFD session as described<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0later in this docum=
ent.<br>
: <br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0ii) BFD is used to exchange fault detection=
 (i.e., BFD session)<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0packets at the requ=
ired detection interval.<br>
: <br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0iii) LSP Ping is used to periodically verify the =
control plane<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0against the data pl=
ane by ensuring that the LSP is mapped to<br>
: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the same FEC, at th=
e egress, as the ingress.<br>
<br>
iii above reminds us that the LSP may be torn down because LSP Ping fails.<=
br>
Thus, it seems problematic that we do not get a reply ever.<br>
<br>
However, with the BFD session in the Up state, we have information proving<=
br>
that the LSP is up.=C2=A0 Thus we have contradictory intent.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
My opinion is that the MAY in the RFC 5884 procedures is intended to have<b=
r>
the BFD session come up by the most expedient means.=C2=A0 I do not believe=
 the<br>
likely intent was to say &quot;don&#39;t send Echo Reply&quot;.=C2=A0 Among=
 other things, that<br>
seems contrary to the intent of the general LSP Ping procedures.<br>
<br>
Having given my personal observations, we now get to the business of the<br=
>
Working Group: Debating intent and related text. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My individual opinion is that, as written, RFC 5884 =
cannot mean any other thing that =E2=80=9C The egress LSR MUST respond with=
 an LSP Ping Echo reply message that<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for=
 the BFD session=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In other words, I support this errata.<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is because RFC 5884 did not update RFC 4379=E2=
=80=99s procedures. And thus a response is needed based on 8029 irregardles=
s of whether 5884 uses it.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That said, it is debatable whether that LSP Ping res=
ponse is useful or not. If it is not sent, it does not comply to 8029. But =
if the WG wants for it to be not send, a new spec is needed.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">-- Jeff<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=E2=80=94</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a><b=
r>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i></span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11401768a65142055ac0efd4--


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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
CC: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>,  "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 23:52:22 +0000
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References: <20170811053550.27303B81263@rfc-editor.org> <20170811173930.GJ24942@pfrc.org> <E2844FE2-9C88-4410-A7A2-7F8AE0567E78@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmU13-Ba2mDROiWtV4Aai_rtZDZ7PzEK0GGgE+ESa9JTNQ@mail.gmail.com> <7501E817-C95E-410A-A91E-080B36B213BE@cisco.com> <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE29187C3DD@dggeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <4bb63466962c4957a594e73163329940@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <3D83F334-5ABC-4CD3-AF14-5D4537671D19@juniper.net> <0cefc1ddee8e4e77b56392095cc8d2d7@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <CA+RyBmV3JN==GY9116hPoKsvWjhRq1_5yArqWBUfx8cEDAvDbQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Regarding Kireeti=92s point below, I also think errata would be best. Jeff?
"As to how to implement these changes, I don=92t personally care.  It seems=
 heavyweight to issue a bis for this, rather than just errata, but I=92m ha=
ppy to leave that to the WG chairs to decide."


From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 7:26 PM
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
>>
Cc: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net<mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>>, Mac=
h Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com<mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com>>, "Carlos Pignata=
ro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>, Tom Nadeau =
<tnadeau@lucidvision.com<mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>, "mpls@ietf.org<m=
ailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, Alia Atlas <ak=
atlas@gmail.com<mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>>, Reshad <rrahman@cisco.com<mailt=
o:rrahman@cisco.com>>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd=
@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)

Hi Kireeti, Les, et. al,
I agree and support the proposed changes, including the most recent propose=
d by Kireeti.
If errata report can be used to record the changes - absolutely great.
I hope that the errata report that triggered this discussion will be proces=
sed and marked accordingly.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.co=
m<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> wrote:
Kireeti =96

The text I proposed below (3 paragraph=92s worth) is intended to =93replace=
 current paragraphs 2 and 3 of Section 6=94.

I am fine with changing

     =93The egress LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029]=85=94

To

     =93The egress LSR MUST follow the procedures defined in [RFC 8029]=85=
=94

Mach and Greg should speak for themselves =96 but I had the impression that=
 Mach was agreeable =96 but Greg I am not so sure about.

   Les


From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net<mailto:kireeti@juniper.n=
et>]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 12:06 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>>=
; Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com<mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com>>; Carlos Pig=
nataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>; Greg Mir=
sky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Cc: Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com<mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; m=
pls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com<mailto:ak=
atlas@gmail.com>>; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahma=
n@cisco.com>>; rtg-bfd@ietf. org <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>=
>; Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net<mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)

Hi Les,

Just to be sure, you=92re suggesting
a)       Change the sentence =93The egress LSR MAY respond =85 BFD session.=
=94 to =93The egress LSR follows the procedures =85 reply message.=94  (or =
better yet, =93The egress LSR MUST follow the procedures =85.=94)
b)      Move this sentence to after the BFD stuff.
c)       Remove the redundant comma (sigh!  Thought I knew commas.)

I am fine with all three suggestions.  I think that the main point (the sou=
rce of interop issues) is (a); the other changes definitely improve readabi=
lity, but are not showstoppers (imo).

I gather from Greg=92s latest email (2017/09/08) and Mach=92s email below t=
hat they=92re both fine with these changes.  Greg, Mach: speak up if not.

As for =93new interop issues=94, the current situation is pretty bad, so le=
t=92s fix it.

As to how to implement these changes, I don=92t personally care.  It seems =
heavyweight to issue a bis for this, rather than just errata, but I=92m hap=
py to leave that to the WG chairs to decide.

Kireeti.

From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.c=
om>>
Date: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 05:16
To: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com<mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com>>, "Carlos =
Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>, Greg=
 Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Cc: Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com<mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>, "=
mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>,=
 Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net<mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>>, Alia A=
tlas <akatlas@gmail.com<mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman=
)" <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org<mailto=
:rtg-bfd@ietf.%20org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)

I tend to agree with Mach =96 and I think what Mach states is also reinforc=
ing the point that Carlos has made =96 which is that echo reply procedures =
are defined by RFC 8029 =96 not by RFC 5884.

However, the current text suffers from much more than the ambiguity regardi=
ng Echo Reply.

1)Second paragraph of Section 6 goes back and forth between discussing BFD =
Control packets, then Echo Reply, then BFD Control Packets

2)Third paragraph of Section 6 has an inappropriate use of =93,=94 in the s=
entence:

=93The BFD Control packets from the
   ingress to the egress LSR MUST set the local discriminator of the
   egress LSR, in the Your Discriminator field.=94

3)Section 6.1 defines when the BFD Discriminator TLV MUST be sent and when =
it is optional in LSP ping. There is actually no need for Section 6 to say =
anything in this regard.

I propose revised text below =96 which is much more extensive in its change=
s than what has been proposed thus far, but I think it is necessary to elim=
inate all ambiguity.
That said, there is no question that the current text is subject to multipl=
e interpretations =96 so any change in text runs the risk of introducing ne=
w interoperability issues. On balance it is probably necessary to take this=
 risk as there is no guarantee that implementations are interoperable today=
, but the WG should still consider this point carefully.

The text below replaces current paragraphs 2 and 3 of Section 6.

<new text start>
On receipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message, the egress LSR MUST
   send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if the validation of
   the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message succeeds.  This BFD
   Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator field to the
   discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the LSP Ping Echo
   request message.    The local discriminator assigned by the egress LSR
   MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the BFD session packets
   sent by the egress LSR.

   The ingress LSR follows the procedures in [BFD] to send BFD Control
   packets to the egress LSR in response to the BFD Control packets
   received from the egress LSR.  The BFD Control packets from the
   ingress to the egress LSR MUST set the local discriminator of the
   egress LSR in the Your Discriminator field.  The egress LSR
   demultiplexes the BFD session based on the received Your
   Discriminator field.  As mentioned above, the egress LSR MUST send
   Control packets to the ingress LSR with the Your Discriminator field
   set to the local discriminator of the ingress LSR.  The ingress LSR
   uses this to demultiplex the BFD session.

  The egress LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029] to determine =
when to respond with an LSP Ping Echo  reply message.
<new text end>

    Les


From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mach Chen
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:56 AM
To: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Greg Mirsky
Cc: Tom Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Kireeti Kompella (kire=
eti@juniper.net<mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>); Alia Atlas; Reshad Rahman (rr=
ahman); rtg-bfd@ietf. org
Subject: RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)

Hi all,

IMHO, the point is not about whether the Echo Reply is optional for a norma=
l LSP Ping, where the echo reply is totally controlled by the reply mode.

For RFC5884, since the reply mode is not specified, based on the current te=
xt, it can be interpreted as the following two ways:

1)      it implies a new =93mode=94 introduced, it=92s actually a =93specia=
l=94 LSP Ping,  the process is just as what is currently described in the R=
FC: an Echo Reply is OPTINAL, whether and when to send Echo Reply is up to =
the egress LSR, and the Ingress LSR should not assume an Echo reply will be=
 returned;

2)      the echo reply is still controlled by the reply mode, and given tha=
t there is a =93Do not reply=94 mode, the current text seems right, but not=
 that clear.

I incline to think way (2) is more nature, if so,  the proposed =93Correcte=
d Text=94 may not work if the Sender set the reply mode to =93Do not reply=
=94.

I=92d suggest:

Original Text
-------------
The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
the BFD session.

NEW:
The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
the BFD session. Whether to send an LSP Ping Echo reply message is
determined by the reply mode carried the received Echo request message.

Best regards,
Mach

From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Pignata=
ro (cpignata)
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:17 AM
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Cc: Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com<mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; m=
pls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Kireeti Kompella (kireeti@juniper.net<m=
ailto:kireeti@juniper.net>) <kireeti@juniper.net<mailto:kireeti@juniper.net=
>>; Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com<mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>>; Reshad Rahman=
 (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>; rtg-bfd@ietf. org=
 <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)

Greg,

This is my final email on this topic, since the arguments are now just sill=
y and not technically constructive.

1. It's not about understanding English. It's about understanding specs! Th=
e "(if any)" that you quote means there are situations in which there's no =
echo reply. As I already explained to you, that's for example the case with=
 Reply-mode: No-reply. However, the "(if any)" does not mean an Echo Reply =
is OPTIONAL. !! Or that you choose when a reply is not sent!!
2. RFC 8029 obsoleted 4379. But to my recollection, nothing changed relevan=
t to this Errata.

BFD for MPLS could have updated LSP ping behavior -- it just didn't.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 14, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:greg=
imirsky@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Carlos,
thank you for sharing your view on how LSP Echo request with BFD Discrimina=
tor used to bootstrap a BFD session over MPLS LSP. I'm surprised that you r=
efer to RFC 8029 as normative reference when commenting on RFC 5884. But ev=
en if we look into RFC 8029, it still has the same texts I've quoted in the=
 previous note that suggest that echo reply is optional. Consider one of th=
em "The Sender's Handle is filled in by the sender and returned unchanged b=
y the receiver in the echo reply (if any)." Though English is my third lang=
uage, I interpret "if any" in that sentence as clear indication that the ec=
ho reply may not be sent ever.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisc=
o.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
Jeff, WG,

I believe there is one additional consideration =97 please see inline.

On Aug 11, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org<mailto:jhaas@pfrc=
.org>> wrote:

[Note that I have adjusted the addresses in the headers to try to catch the
RFC authors' current accounts.]


The 5884 interop issue keeps bubbling up.  Balaji submitted an errata, whic=
h
provides us with a good place to start technical discussion.

Please note I also spent some time off-list discussing this errata with
Balaji.


On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 10:35:50PM -0700, RFC Errata System wrote:
Section: 6

Original Text
-------------
The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
the BFD session.

Corrected Text
--------------
The egress LSR MUST respond with an LSP Ping Echo reply message that
MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for the BFD session.


Notes
-----
It is not clear from the original text which of the following is optional:
 -  The egress MUST send a reply, but the discriminator in the reply is opt=
ional
 -  The reply itself is optional

Technically, the reply cannot be optional, because the egress needs to repo=
rt LSP-Ping verification status to the ingress.

This is correct =97 but even more so, technically, it is not up to RFC 5884=
 to define when an LSP-Ping reply is optional or not.

That=92s=92 up to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4

Lacking a Reply Mode set to "Do not reply" (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc=
8029#page-12) the RFC 8029 procedures dictate a response be sent, independe=
nt of whether the RFC 5884 procedures use that information or not.

More below.


The proposed text recommends to include BFD discriminator in the reply. Thi=
s was the intent of the original text.

My opinion follows:

In section 6 -

:    On receipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message, the egress LSR MUST
:    send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if the validation of
:    the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message succeeds.  This BFD
:    Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator field to the
:    discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the LSP Ping Echo
:    request message.  The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
:    reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
:    the BFD session.  The local discriminator assigned by the egress LSR
:    MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the BFD session packets
:    sent by the egress LSR.

In the text above, I consider it quite clear that the receipt of the BFD
packet contains sufficient state to bring up the BFD session.  The receipt
of the same Discriminator in the LSP Ping Echo Reply is optional.

This makes sense partially because the reply may be dropped and we want the
BFD session to come up as fast as possible.

Yes, especially because the first sentence says that the egress sending a B=
FD Control packet implies FEC validation passed. However, https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4 does more than FEC validation.


The point of contention appears to be what to do if we *never* get such
replies.  It's worth pointing out additional text in RFC 5884, section 3.2.

:    Hence, BFD is used in conjunction with LSP Ping for MPLS LSP fault
:    detection:
:
:       i) LSP Ping is used for bootstrapping the BFD session as described
:          later in this document.
:
:      ii) BFD is used to exchange fault detection (i.e., BFD session)
:          packets at the required detection interval.
:
:     iii) LSP Ping is used to periodically verify the control plane
:          against the data plane by ensuring that the LSP is mapped to
:          the same FEC, at the egress, as the ingress.

iii above reminds us that the LSP may be torn down because LSP Ping fails.
Thus, it seems problematic that we do not get a reply ever.

However, with the BFD session in the Up state, we have information proving
that the LSP is up.  Thus we have contradictory intent.

---

My opinion is that the MAY in the RFC 5884 procedures is intended to have
the BFD session come up by the most expedient means.  I do not believe the
likely intent was to say "don't send Echo Reply".  Among other things, that
seems contrary to the intent of the general LSP Ping procedures.

Having given my personal observations, we now get to the business of the
Working Group: Debating intent and related text.

My individual opinion is that, as written, RFC 5884 cannot mean any other t=
hing that =93 The egress LSR MUST respond with an LSP Ping Echo reply messa=
ge that
MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for the BFD session=94.

In other words, I support this errata.

This is because RFC 5884 did not update RFC 4379=92s procedures. And thus a=
 response is needed based on 8029 irregardless of whether 5884 uses it.

That said, it is debatable whether that LSP Ping response is useful or not.=
 If it is not sent, it does not comply to 8029. But if the WG wants for it =
to be not send, a new spec is needed.

Thanks,

-- Jeff

=97
Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com<mailto:carlos@cisco.com>

=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make myself=
 sound more photosynthesis."




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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
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<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"3">Regardi=
ng Kireeti=92s point below,&nbsp;I also think errata would be best. Jeff?</=
font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: -webkit-s=
tandard; font-size: 14px;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&quot;As=
 to how to implement these changes, I don=92t personally care.&nbsp; It see=
ms heavyweight to issue a bis for this, rather than just errata, but I=92m =
happy to leave that to the WG chairs to decide.&quot;<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at=
 7:26 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Kireeti Kompella &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net">kireeti@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Mach Chen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com">mach.chen@huawei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Ca=
rlos Pignataro (cpignata)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">c=
pignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;,
 Tom Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com">tnadeau@lucidvis=
ion.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Alia Atlas=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;,
 Reshad &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com">rrahman@cisco.com</a>&gt;,=
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Technical Errata Repo=
rted] RFC5884 (5085)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Kireeti, Les, et. al,
<div>I agree and support the proposed changes, including the most recent pr=
oposed by Kireeti.</div>
<div>If errata report can be used to record the changes - absolutely great.=
</div>
<div>I hope that the errata report that triggered this discussion will be p=
rocessed and marked accordingly.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Les Ginsberg (g=
insberg)
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_1665591081177190020WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Kireeti =96<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The text I proposed below (3 paragrap=
h=92s worth) is intended to =93replace current paragraphs 2 and 3 of Sectio=
n 6=94.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am fine with changing
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =93The egres=
s LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029]=85=94<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">To
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =93The egres=
s LSR
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:red">MUST follow
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f497d">the procedures defined in [RFC 8029]=85=94<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Mach and Greg should speak for themse=
lves =96 but I had the impression that Mach was agreeable =96 but Greg I am=
 not so sure about.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Kireeti Kompella [mailto:<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kireeti@juniper.net</a>=
]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 04, 2017 12:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Mach Chen &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mach.chen@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">mach.chen@huawei.com</a>&gt;; =
Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
 Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tom Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=
=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Alia =
Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisc=
o.com" target=3D"_blank">rrahman@cisco.com</a>&gt;; rtg-bfd@ietf.
 org &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf=
.org</a>&gt;; Kireeti Kompella &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" t=
arget=3D"_blank">kireeti@juniper.net</a>&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)<u></u><u></u=
></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Les,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Just to be sure, you=92re suggesting<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><span>a)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; f=
ont-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Change the sentence =93The egress LSR MAY resp=
ond =85 BFD session.=94 to =93The egress LSR follows the procedures =85 rep=
ly message.=94&nbsp; (or better yet, =93The egress LSR MUST follow
 the procedures =85.=94)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><span>b)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; f=
ont-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Move this sentence to after the BFD stuff.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><span>c)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; f=
ont-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Remove the redundant comma (sigh!&nbsp; Though=
t I knew commas.)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I am fine with all three suggestions.&nbsp; I think=
 that the main point (the source of interop issues) is (a); the other chang=
es definitely improve readability, but are not showstoppers
 (imo).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I gather from Greg=92s latest email (2017/09/08) an=
d Mach=92s email below that they=92re both fine with these changes.&nbsp; G=
reg, Mach: speak up if not.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">As for =93new interop issues=94, the current situat=
ion is pretty bad, so let=92s fix it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">As to how to implement these changes, I don=92t per=
sonally care.&nbsp; It seems heavyweight to issue a bis for this, rather th=
an just errata, but I=92m happy to leave that to the WG
 chairs to decide.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Kireeti.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From: </span></b><spa=
n style=3D"color:black">&quot;Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 05:16<br>
<b>To: </b>Mach Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">mach.chen@huawei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cis=
co.com</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Tom Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=
=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mp=
ls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Kireeti Kompella
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kireeti@junip=
er.net</a>&gt;, Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Reshad Rahman (rrahman)&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">rrahman@cisco.co=
m</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.%20org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@iet=
f. org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I tend to agree with Mach =96 and I t=
hink what Mach states is also reinforcing the point that Carlos has made =
=96 which is that echo reply procedures are defined
 by RFC 8029 =96 not by RFC 5884.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">However, the current text suffers fro=
m much more than the ambiguity regarding Echo Reply.</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">1)Second paragraph of Section 6 goes =
back and forth between discussing BFD Control packets, then Echo Reply, the=
n BFD Control Packets</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">2)Third paragraph of Section 6 has an=
 inappropriate use of =93,=94 in the sentence:
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=93The BFD Control packets from the</=
span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&nbsp; ingress to the egress LS=
R MUST set the local discriminator of the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&nbsp; egress
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:red">LSR, in
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1f497d">the Your Discriminator field.=94</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">3)Section 6.1 defines when the BFD Di=
scriminator TLV MUST be sent and when it is optional in LSP ping. There is =
actually no need for Section 6 to say anything
 in this regard.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I propose revised text below =96 whic=
h is much more extensive in its changes than what has been proposed thus fa=
r, but I think it is necessary to eliminate all
 ambiguity.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">That said, there is no question that =
the current text is subject to multiple interpretations =96 so any change i=
n text runs the risk of introducing new interoperability
 issues. On balance it is probably necessary to take this risk as there is =
no guarantee that implementations are interoperable today, but the WG shoul=
d still consider this point carefully.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The text below replaces current parag=
raphs 2 and 3 of Section 6.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&lt;new=
 text start&gt;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">On rece=
ipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message, the egress LSR MUST</span></i><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if the validation of</s=
pan></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message succeeds.&nbsp; This BFD=
</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator field to the</span></i=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the LSP Ping Echo</spa=
n></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; request message.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;The local discriminator assigned b=
y the egress LSR</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the BFD session packets=
</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; sent by the egress LSR.</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;<=
/span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; The ingress LSR follows the procedures in [BFD] to send BFD Control</=
span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; packets to the egress LSR in response to the BFD Control packets</spa=
n></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; received from the egress LSR.&nbsp; The BFD Control packets from the<=
/span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; ingress to the egress LSR MUST set the local discriminator of the</sp=
an></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; egress LSR in the Your Discriminator field.&nbsp; The egress LSR</spa=
n></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; demultiplexes the BFD session based on the received Your</span></i><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; Discriminator field.&nbsp; As mentioned above, the egress LSR MUST se=
nd</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; Control packets to the ingress LSR with the Your Discriminator field<=
/span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; set to the local discriminator of the ingress LSR.&nbsp; The ingress =
LSR</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; uses this to demultiplex the BFD session.</span></i><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;<=
/span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp; =
The egress LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029] to determine wh=
en to respond with an LSP Ping Echo&nbsp; reply message.</span></i><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&lt;new=
 text end&gt;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Les</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Rtg-bfd [<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-b=
fd-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.<wbr>org=
</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mach Chen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tom Nadeau; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">m=
pls@ietf.org</a>; Kireeti Kompella (<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" =
target=3D"_blank">kireeti@juniper.net</a>); Alia Atlas; Reshad Rahman (rrah=
man); rtg-bfd@ietf. org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi all,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">IMHO, the point is not about whether =
the Echo Reply is optional for a normal LSP Ping, where the echo reply is t=
otally controlled by the reply mode.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">For RFC5884, since the reply mode is =
not specified, based on the current text, it can be interpreted as the foll=
owing two ways:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_1665591081177190020MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">1)</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f497d">it implies a new =93mode=94 introduced, it=92s actual=
ly a =93special=94 LSP Ping, &nbsp;the process is just as what is currently=
 described in the RFC: an Echo Reply is OPTINAL, whether and
 when to send Echo Reply is up to the egress LSR, and the Ingress LSR shoul=
d not assume an Echo reply will be returned;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_1665591081177190020MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">2)</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f497d">the echo reply is still controlled by the reply mode,=
 and given that there is a =93Do not reply=94 mode, the current text seems =
right, but not that clear.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I incline to think way (2) is more na=
ture, if so, &nbsp;the proposed =93Corrected Text=94 may not work if the Se=
nder set the reply mode to =93Do not reply=94.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I=92d suggest:</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Original Text<br>
-------------<br>
The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo<br>
reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for<br>
the BFD session.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo<br>
reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for<br>
the BFD session. Whether to send an LSP Ping Echo reply message is <u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">determined by the reply mode carried the received Ec=
ho request message. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Best regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Mach</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Rtg-bfd [<a href=3D"mailto:rtg=
-bfd-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.<wbr>o=
rg</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tom Nadeau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=
=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvision.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Kiree=
ti Kompella (<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kiree=
ti@juniper.net</a>) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">kireeti@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
 Reshad Rahman (rrahman) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com" target=3D=
"_blank">rrahman@cisco.com</a>&gt;; rtg-bfd@ietf. org &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is my final email on this topic, since the argu=
ments are now just silly and not technically constructive.&nbsp;<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1. It's not about understanding English. It's about =
understanding specs! The &quot;(if any)&quot; that you quote means there ar=
e situations in which there's no echo reply. As I already explained to you,=
 that's for example the case with Reply-mode:
 No-reply. However, the &quot;(if any)&quot; does not mean an Echo Reply is=
 OPTIONAL. !! Or that you choose when a reply is not sent!!<u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2. RFC 8029 obsoleted 4379. But to my recollection, =
nothing changed relevant to this Errata.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BFD for MPLS could have updated LSP ping behavior --=
 it just didn't.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_1665591081177190020AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Sent from my iPad<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Aug 14, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Carlos, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for sharing your view on how LSP Echo requ=
est with BFD Discriminator used to bootstrap a BFD session over MPLS LSP. I=
'm surprised that you refer to RFC 8029 as normative reference when comment=
ing on RFC 5884. But even if we look
 into RFC 8029, it still has the same texts I've quoted in the previous not=
e that suggest that echo reply is optional. Consider one of them &quot;<spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">The Sender's Handle is filled in b=
y the sender and returned unchanged&nbsp;by
 the receiver in the echo reply (if any).&quot; Though English is my third =
language, I interpret &quot;if any&quot; in that sentence as clear indicati=
on that the echo reply may not be sent ever.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Regards=
,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Greg</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Carlos Pignataro (c=
pignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpigna=
ta@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeff, WG, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe there is one additional consideration =97 =
please see inline.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Aug 11, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; wrote:=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">[Note that I have adj=
usted the addresses in the headers to try to catch the<br>
RFC authors' current accounts.]<br>
<br>
<br>
The 5884 interop issue keeps bubbling up.&nbsp; Balaji submitted an errata,=
 which<br>
provides us with a good place to start technical discussion.<br>
<br>
Please note I also spent some time off-list discussing this errata with<br>
Balaji.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 10:35:50PM -0700, RFC Errata System wrote:<u></u><u=
></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section: 6<br>
<br>
Original Text<br>
-------------<br>
The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo<br>
reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for<br>
the BFD session.<br>
<br>
Corrected Text<br>
--------------<br>
The egress LSR MUST respond with an LSP Ping Echo reply message that<br>
MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for the BFD session.<br>
<br>
<br>
Notes<br>
-----<br>
It is not clear from the original text which of the following is optional:<=
br>
&nbsp;- &nbsp;The egress MUST send a reply, but the discriminator in the re=
ply is optional<br>
&nbsp;- &nbsp;The reply itself is optional<br>
<br>
Technically, the reply cannot be optional, because the egress needs to repo=
rt LSP-Ping verification status to the ingress.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is correct =97 but even more so, technically, i=
t is not up to RFC 5884 to define when an LSP-Ping reply is optional or not=
.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That=92s=92 up to&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/<wb=
r>html/rfc8029#section-4.4</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Lacking a Reply Mode set to &quot;Do not reply&quot;=
 (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#page-12" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>rfc8029#page-12</a>) the RFC 8029 procedu=
res dictate a response be sent, independent of whether
 the RFC 5884 procedures use that information or not.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">More below.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span class=3D"m_1665=
591081177190020gmail-">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
The proposed text recommends to include BFD discriminator in the reply. Thi=
s was the intent of the original text.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
My opinion follows:<br>
<br>
In section 6 - <br>
<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On receipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message, the eg=
ress LSR MUST<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if the va=
lidation of<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message succeeds.&=
nbsp; This BFD<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator field to=
 the<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the LSP =
Ping Echo<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;request message.&nbsp; The egress LSR MAY respond with =
an LSP Ping Echo<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;reply message that carries the local discriminator assi=
gned by it for<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the BFD session.&nbsp; The local discriminator assigned=
 by the egress LSR<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the BFD s=
ession packets<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent by the egress LSR.<br>
<br>
In the text above, I consider it quite clear that the receipt of the BFD<br=
>
packet contains sufficient state to bring up the BFD session.&nbsp; The rec=
eipt<br>
of the same Discriminator in the LSP Ping Echo Reply is optional.<br>
<br>
This makes sense partially because the reply may be dropped and we want the=
<br>
BFD session to come up as fast as possible.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes, especially because the first sentence says that=
 the egress sending a BFD Control packet implies FEC validation passed. How=
ever,&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.<wbr>org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4</a>&nbsp=
;<wbr>does
 more than FEC validation.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span class=3D"m_1665=
591081177190020gmail-">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
The point of contention appears to be what to do if we *never* get such<br>
replies.&nbsp; It's worth pointing out additional text in RFC 5884, section=
 3.2.<br>
<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hence, BFD is used in conjunction with LSP Ping for MPL=
S LSP fault<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;detection:<br>
: <br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;i) LSP Ping is used for bootstrapping=
 the BFD session as described<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;later in this docum=
ent.<br>
: <br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ii) BFD is used to exchange fault detection=
 (i.e., BFD session)<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets at the requ=
ired detection interval.<br>
: <br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;iii) LSP Ping is used to periodically verify the =
control plane<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;against the data pl=
ane by ensuring that the LSP is mapped to<br>
: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the same FEC, at th=
e egress, as the ingress.<br>
<br>
iii above reminds us that the LSP may be torn down because LSP Ping fails.<=
br>
Thus, it seems problematic that we do not get a reply ever.<br>
<br>
However, with the BFD session in the Up state, we have information proving<=
br>
that the LSP is up.&nbsp; Thus we have contradictory intent.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
My opinion is that the MAY in the RFC 5884 procedures is intended to have<b=
r>
the BFD session come up by the most expedient means.&nbsp; I do not believe=
 the<br>
likely intent was to say &quot;don't send Echo Reply&quot;.&nbsp; Among oth=
er things, that<br>
seems contrary to the intent of the general LSP Ping procedures.<br>
<br>
Having given my personal observations, we now get to the business of the<br=
>
Working Group: Debating intent and related text. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My individual opinion is that, as written, RFC 5884 =
cannot mean any other thing that =93 The egress LSR MUST respond with an LS=
P Ping Echo reply message that<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for=
 the BFD session=94.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In other words, I support this errata.<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is because RFC 5884 did not update RFC 4379=92s=
 procedures. And thus a response is needed based on 8029 irregardless of wh=
ether 5884 uses it.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That said, it is debatable whether that LSP Ping res=
ponse is useful or not. If it is not sent, it does not comply to 8029. But =
if the WG wants for it to be not send, a new spec is needed.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">-- Jeff<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=97</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Carlos Pignataro,&nbsp;<=
a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a><b=
r>
<br>
<i>=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make mys=
elf sound more&nbsp;photosynthesis.&quot;</i></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D5FAEC68318D55rrahmanciscocom_--


From nobody Fri Oct  6 00:37:00 2017
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Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
References: <20170811053550.27303B81263@rfc-editor.org> <20170811173930.GJ24942@pfrc.org> <E2844FE2-9C88-4410-A7A2-7F8AE0567E78@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmU13-Ba2mDROiWtV4Aai_rtZDZ7PzEK0GGgE+ESa9JTNQ@mail.gmail.com> <7501E817-C95E-410A-A91E-080B36B213BE@cisco.com> <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE29187C3DD@dggeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <4bb63466962c4957a594e73163329940@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <3D83F334-5ABC-4CD3-AF14-5D4537671D19@juniper.net> <0cefc1ddee8e4e77b56392095cc8d2d7@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <CA+RyBmV3JN==GY9116hPoKsvWjhRq1_5yArqWBUfx8cEDAvDbQ@mail.gmail.com> <D5FAEC68.318D55%rrahman@cisco.com>
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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All,

On 2017-10-05 01:52, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote:
> Regarding Kireeti’s point below, I also think errata would be best. Jeff?
> 
> "As to how to implement these changes, I don’t personally care.  It 
> seems heavyweight to issue a bis for this, rather than just errata, but 
> I’m happy to leave that to the WG chairs to decide."____
> 
This is best handled as an errata.

Also, it is a national holiday in China, Mach won't be able to respond
until early next week.

/Loa
> 
> 
> From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
> Date: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 7:26 PM
> To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com 
> <mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>>
> Cc: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net <mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>>, 
> Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com <mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com>>, "Carlos 
> Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>, 
> Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>, 
> "mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org 
> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com 
> <mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>>, Reshad <rrahman@cisco.com 
> <mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org 
> <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)
> 
> Hi Kireeti, Les, et. al,
> I agree and support the proposed changes, including the most recent 
> proposed by Kireeti.
> If errata report can be used to record the changes - absolutely great.
> I hope that the errata report that triggered this discussion will be 
> processed and marked accordingly.
> 
> Regards,
> Greg
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) 
> <ginsberg@cisco.com <mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Kireeti –____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     The text I proposed below (3 paragraph’s worth) is intended to
>     “replace current paragraphs 2 and 3 of Section 6”.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     I am fine with changing ____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>           “The egress LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029]…”____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     To ____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>           “The egress LSR MUST follow the procedures defined in [RFC
>     8029]…”____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Mach and Greg should speak for themselves – but I had the impression
>     that Mach was agreeable – but Greg I am not so sure about.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>         Les____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     *From:*Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net
>     <mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>]
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, October 04, 2017 12:06 PM
>     *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com
>     <mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>>; Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com
>     <mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com>>; Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>     <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>; Greg Mirsky
>     <gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>     *Cc:* Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; mpls@ietf.org
>     <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com
>     <mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>>; Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
>     <rrahman@cisco.com <mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>; rtg-bfd@ietf. org
>     <rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>; Kireeti Kompella
>     <kireeti@juniper.net <mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Hi Les,____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Just to be sure, you’re suggesting____
> 
>     __a)__Change the sentence “The egress LSR MAY respond … BFD
>     session.” to “The egress LSR follows the procedures … reply
>     message.”  (or better yet, “The egress LSR MUST follow the
>     procedures ….”)____
> 
>     __b)__Move this sentence to after the BFD stuff.____
> 
>     __c)__Remove the redundant comma (sigh!  Thought I knew commas.)____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     I am fine with all three suggestions.  I think that the main point
>     (the source of interop issues) is (a); the other changes definitely
>     improve readability, but are not showstoppers (imo).____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     I gather from Greg’s latest email (2017/09/08) and Mach’s email
>     below that they’re both fine with these changes.  Greg, Mach: speak
>     up if not.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     As for “new interop issues”, the current situation is pretty bad, so
>     let’s fix it.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     As to how to implement these changes, I don’t personally care.  It
>     seems heavyweight to issue a bis for this, rather than just errata,
>     but I’m happy to leave that to the WG chairs to decide.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Kireeti.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     *From: *"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com
>     <mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>>
>     *Date: *Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 05:16
>     *To: *Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com
>     <mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com>>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)"
>     <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>, Greg Mirsky
>     <gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>     *Cc: *Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>, "mpls@ietf.org
>     <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>,
>     Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net <mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>>,
>     Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com <mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>>, "Reshad
>     Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com <mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>,
>     "rtg-bfd@ietf. org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.%20org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org
>     <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
>     *Subject: *RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     I tend to agree with Mach – and I think what Mach states is also
>     reinforcing the point that Carlos has made – which is that echo
>     reply procedures are defined by RFC 8029 – not by RFC 5884.____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     However, the current text suffers from much more than the ambiguity
>     regarding Echo Reply.____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     1)Second paragraph of Section 6 goes back and forth between
>     discussing BFD Control packets, then Echo Reply, then BFD Control
>     Packets____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     2)Third paragraph of Section 6 has an inappropriate use of “,” in
>     the sentence: ____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     “The BFD Control packets from the____
> 
>         ingress to the egress LSR MUST set the local discriminator of
>     the____
> 
>         egress *LSR, in *the Your Discriminator field.”____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     3)Section 6.1 defines when the BFD Discriminator TLV MUST be sent
>     and when it is optional in LSP ping. There is actually no need for
>     Section 6 to say anything in this regard.____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     I propose revised text below – which is much more extensive in its
>     changes than what has been proposed thus far, but I think it is
>     necessary to eliminate all ambiguity.____
> 
>     That said, there is no question that the current text is subject to
>     multiple interpretations – so any change in text runs the risk of
>     introducing new interoperability issues. On balance it is probably
>     necessary to take this risk as there is no guarantee that
>     implementations are interoperable today, but the WG should still
>     consider this point carefully.____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     The text below replaces current paragraphs 2 and 3 of Section 6.____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     /<new text start>/____
> 
>     /On receipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message, the egress LSR
>     MUST/____
> 
>     /   send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if the validation
>     of/____
> 
>     /   the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message succeeds.  This
>     BFD/____
> 
>     /   Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator field to the/____
> 
>     /   discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the LSP Ping
>     Echo/____
> 
>     /   request message.    The local discriminator assigned by the
>     egress LSR/____
> 
>     /   MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the BFD session
>     packets/____
> 
>     /   sent by the egress LSR./____
> 
>     //____
> 
>     /   The ingress LSR follows the procedures in [BFD] to send BFD
>     Control/____
> 
>     /   packets to the egress LSR in response to the BFD Control
>     packets/____
> 
>     /   received from the egress LSR.  The BFD Control packets from the/____
> 
>     /   ingress to the egress LSR MUST set the local discriminator of
>     the/____
> 
>     /   egress LSR in the Your Discriminator field.  The egress LSR/____
> 
>     /   demultiplexes the BFD session based on the received Your/____
> 
>     /   Discriminator field.  As mentioned above, the egress LSR MUST
>     send/____
> 
>     /   Control packets to the ingress LSR with the Your Discriminator
>     field/____
> 
>     /   set to the local discriminator of the ingress LSR.  The ingress
>     LSR/____
> 
>     /   uses this to demultiplex the BFD session./____
> 
>     //____
> 
>     /  The egress LSR follows the procedures defined in [RFC 8029] to
>     determine when to respond with an LSP Ping Echo  reply message./____
> 
>     /<new text end>/____
> 
>     ____
> 
>          Les____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     *From:*Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org>] *On Behalf Of *Mach Chen
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:56 AM
>     *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Greg Mirsky
>     *Cc:* Tom Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Kireeti
>     Kompella (kireeti@juniper.net <mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>); Alia
>     Atlas; Reshad Rahman (rrahman); rtg-bfd@ietf. org
>     *Subject:* RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     Hi all,____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     IMHO, the point is not about whether the Echo Reply is optional for
>     a normal LSP Ping, where the echo reply is totally controlled by the
>     reply mode. ____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     For RFC5884, since the reply mode is not specified, based on the
>     current text, it can be interpreted as the following two ways:____
> 
>     1)it implies a new “mode” introduced, it’s actually a “special” LSP
>     Ping,  the process is just as what is currently described in the
>     RFC: an Echo Reply is OPTINAL, whether and when to send Echo Reply
>     is up to the egress LSR, and the Ingress LSR should not assume an
>     Echo reply will be returned;____
> 
>     2)the echo reply is still controlled by the reply mode, and given
>     that there is a “Do not reply” mode, the current text seems right,
>     but not that clear. ____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     I incline to think way (2) is more nature, if so,  the proposed
>     “Corrected Text” may not work if the Sender set the reply mode to
>     “Do not reply”.____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     I’d suggest:____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     Original Text
>     -------------
>     The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
>     reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
>     the BFD session.____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     NEW:____
> 
>     The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
>     reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
>     the BFD session. Whether to send an LSP Ping Echo reply message is ____
> 
>     determined by the reply mode carried the received Echo request
>     message. ____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     Best regards,____
> 
>     Mach____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     *From:*Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org>] *On Behalf Of *Carlos Pignataro
>     (cpignata)
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:17 AM
>     *To:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>     *Cc:* Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com
>     <mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com>>; mpls@ietf.org
>     <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Kireeti Kompella (kireeti@juniper.net
>     <mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>) <kireeti@juniper.net
>     <mailto:kireeti@juniper.net>>; Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com
>     <mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>>; Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
>     <rrahman@cisco.com <mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>; rtg-bfd@ietf. org
>     <rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5884 (5085)____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     Greg,____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     This is my final email on this topic, since the arguments are now
>     just silly and not technically constructive. ____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     1. It's not about understanding English. It's about understanding
>     specs! The "(if any)" that you quote means there are situations in
>     which there's no echo reply. As I already explained to you, that's
>     for example the case with Reply-mode: No-reply. However, the "(if
>     any)" does not mean an Echo Reply is OPTIONAL. !! Or that you choose
>     when a reply is not sent!!____
> 
>     2. RFC 8029 obsoleted 4379. But to my recollection, nothing changed
>     relevant to this Errata. ____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     BFD for MPLS could have updated LSP ping behavior -- it just didn't.
>     ____
> 
> 
>     Sent from my iPad____
> 
> 
>     On Aug 14, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com
>     <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>> wrote:____
> 
>         Hi Carlos, ____
> 
>         thank you for sharing your view on how LSP Echo request with BFD
>         Discriminator used to bootstrap a BFD session over MPLS LSP. I'm
>         surprised that you refer to RFC 8029 as normative reference when
>         commenting on RFC 5884. But even if we look into RFC 8029, it
>         still has the same texts I've quoted in the previous note that
>         suggest that echo reply is optional. Consider one of them "The
>         Sender's Handle is filled in by the sender and returned
>         unchanged by the receiver in the echo reply (if any)." Though
>         English is my third language, I interpret "if any" in that
>         sentence as clear indication that the echo reply may not be sent
>         ever.____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         Regards,____
> 
>         Greg____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>         <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:____
> 
>             Jeff, WG, ____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             I believe there is one additional consideration — please see
>             inline.____
> 
>             ____
> 
>                 On Aug 11, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Jeffrey Haas
>                 <jhaas@pfrc.org <mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org>> wrote:____
> 
>                 ____
> 
>                 [Note that I have adjusted the addresses in the headers
>                 to try to catch the
>                 RFC authors' current accounts.]
> 
> 
>                 The 5884 interop issue keeps bubbling up.  Balaji
>                 submitted an errata, which
>                 provides us with a good place to start technical discussion.
> 
>                 Please note I also spent some time off-list discussing
>                 this errata with
>                 Balaji.
> 
> 
>                 On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 10:35:50PM -0700, RFC Errata
>                 System wrote:____
> 
>                     Section: 6
> 
>                     Original Text
>                     -------------
>                     The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
>                     reply message that carries the local discriminator
>                     assigned by it for
>                     the BFD session.
> 
>                     Corrected Text
>                     --------------
>                     The egress LSR MUST respond with an LSP Ping Echo
>                     reply message that
>                     MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for
>                     the BFD session.
> 
> 
>                     Notes
>                     -----
>                     It is not clear from the original text which of the
>                     following is optional:
>                       -  The egress MUST send a reply, but the
>                     discriminator in the reply is optional
>                       -  The reply itself is optional
> 
>                     Technically, the reply cannot be optional, because
>                     the egress needs to report LSP-Ping verification
>                     status to the ingress.____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             This is correct — but even more so, technically, it is not
>             up to RFC 5884 to define when an LSP-Ping reply is optional
>             or not.____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             That’s’ up to
>             https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4
>             <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4>____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             Lacking a Reply Mode set to "Do not reply"
>             (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#page-12
>             <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#page-12>) the RFC 8029
>             procedures dictate a response be sent, independent of
>             whether the RFC 5884 procedures use that information or not.____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             More below.____
> 
>             ____
> 
> 
>                     The proposed text recommends to include BFD
>                     discriminator in the reply. This was the intent of
>                     the original text.____
> 
> 
>                 My opinion follows:
> 
>                 In section 6 -
> 
>                 :    On receipt of the LSP Ping Echo request message,
>                 the egress LSR MUST
>                 :    send a BFD Control packet to the ingress LSR, if
>                 the validation of
>                 :    the FEC in the LSP Ping Echo request message
>                 succeeds.  This BFD
>                 :    Control packet MUST set the Your Discriminator
>                 field to the
>                 :    discriminator received from the ingress LSR in the
>                 LSP Ping Echo
>                 :    request message.  The egress LSR MAY respond with
>                 an LSP Ping Echo
>                 :    reply message that carries the local discriminator
>                 assigned by it for
>                 :    the BFD session.  The local discriminator assigned
>                 by the egress LSR
>                 :    MUST be used as the My Discriminator field in the
>                 BFD session packets
>                 :    sent by the egress LSR.
> 
>                 In the text above, I consider it quite clear that the
>                 receipt of the BFD
>                 packet contains sufficient state to bring up the BFD
>                 session.  The receipt
>                 of the same Discriminator in the LSP Ping Echo Reply is
>                 optional.
> 
>                 This makes sense partially because the reply may be
>                 dropped and we want the
>                 BFD session to come up as fast as possible.____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             Yes, especially because the first sentence says that the
>             egress sending a BFD Control packet implies FEC validation
>             passed. However,
>             https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4
>             <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8029#section-4.4> does more
>             than FEC validation.____
> 
>             ____
> 
> 
>                 The point of contention appears to be what to do if we
>                 *never* get such
>                 replies.  It's worth pointing out additional text in RFC
>                 5884, section 3.2.
> 
>                 :    Hence, BFD is used in conjunction with LSP Ping for
>                 MPLS LSP fault
>                 :    detection:
>                 :
>                 :       i) LSP Ping is used for bootstrapping the BFD
>                 session as described
>                 :          later in this document.
>                 :
>                 :      ii) BFD is used to exchange fault detection
>                 (i.e., BFD session)
>                 :          packets at the required detection interval.
>                 :
>                 :     iii) LSP Ping is used to periodically verify the
>                 control plane
>                 :          against the data plane by ensuring that the
>                 LSP is mapped to
>                 :          the same FEC, at the egress, as the ingress.
> 
>                 iii above reminds us that the LSP may be torn down
>                 because LSP Ping fails.
>                 Thus, it seems problematic that we do not get a reply ever.
> 
>                 However, with the BFD session in the Up state, we have
>                 information proving
>                 that the LSP is up.  Thus we have contradictory intent.
> 
>                 ---
> 
>                 My opinion is that the MAY in the RFC 5884 procedures is
>                 intended to have
>                 the BFD session come up by the most expedient means.  I
>                 do not believe the
>                 likely intent was to say "don't send Echo Reply".  Among
>                 other things, that
>                 seems contrary to the intent of the general LSP Ping
>                 procedures.
> 
>                 Having given my personal observations, we now get to the
>                 business of the
>                 Working Group: Debating intent and related text. ____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             My individual opinion is that, as written, RFC 5884 cannot
>             mean any other thing that “ The egress LSR MUST respond with
>             an LSP Ping Echo reply message that____
> 
>             MAY carry the local discriminator assigned by it for the BFD
>             session”.____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             In other words, I support this errata.____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             This is because RFC 5884 did not update RFC 4379’s
>             procedures. And thus a response is needed based on 8029
>             irregardless of whether 5884 uses it.____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             That said, it is debatable whether that LSP Ping response is
>             useful or not. If it is not sent, it does not comply to
>             8029. But if the WG wants for it to be not send, a new spec
>             is needed.____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             Thanks,____
> 
>             ____
> 
>                 -- Jeff____
> 
>             ____
> 
>             —____
> 
>             Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
> 
>             /“Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand,
>             to make myself sound more photosynthesis."/____
> 
>             ____
> 
>         ____
> 
> 

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Dear All,
the new version of BFD over VXLAN includes minor editorial updates and the
new figure to highlight encapsulation of a BFD control message over VXLAN.
Your comments and questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated.
Authors would like NVO3 WG to consider adoption of this work.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:42 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06.txt
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Mallik Mudigonda <
mmudigon@cisco.com>, Sudarsan Paragiri <sparagiri@juniper.net>, Vengada
Prasad Govindan <venggovi@cisco.com>, Santosh Pallagatti <
santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan
Revision:       06
Title:          BFD for VXLAN
Document date:  2017-10-13
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          10
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spallagatti-bfd-
vxlan-06.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-
vxlan/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-spallagatti-
bfd-vxlan-06
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-spallagatti-bfd-
vxlan-06

Abstract:
   This document describes use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
   (BFD) protocol in Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network (VXLAN)
   overlay network.




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The IETF Secretariat

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>the new version of BFD over VXLAN includes m=
inor editorial updates and the new figure to highlight encapsulation of a B=
FD control message over VXLAN. Your comments and questions are always welco=
me and greatly appreciated.</div><div>Authors would like NVO3 WG to conside=
r adoption of this work.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</=
div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ------=
----<br>From: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername"></b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</s=
pan><br>Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:42 AM<br>Subject: New Version Notifica=
tion for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06.txt<br>To: Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Mallik M=
udigonda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mmudigon@cisco.com">mmudigon@cisco.com</a>&g=
t;, Sudarsan Paragiri &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sparagiri@juniper.net">sparagir=
i@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Vengada Prasad Govindan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:venggo=
vi@cisco.com">venggovi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Santosh Pallagatti &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com">santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
br><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-<wbr>06.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan<b=
r>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A006<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD for VXLAN<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-10-13<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draft-spallagatt=
i-bfd-<wbr>vxlan-06.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-<wbr>vxlan/</=
a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-spallagatti-<wbr>bfd-v=
xlan-06</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-spallagatti-bfd-=
<wbr>vxlan-06</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detect=
ion<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(BFD) protocol in Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network (VXLAN=
)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0overlay network.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
</div><br></div></div>

--001a11412192ff3c11055b45a7a5--


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Subject: Re: [nvo3] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06.txt
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--94eb2c06c8621fa5f7055b8353c7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Since the NVO3 WG is moving forward with standardization of only the Geneve
encap, shouldn't this draft be written for BFD on Geneve?

I guess I'm looking for direction from the chairs and AD as to whether the
WG can/should spend time standardizing anything over VXLAN given that VXLAN
itself is not a WG standard.

Back to the draft -- if this were written for Geneve, I would expect it to
cover both L2 and L3 over Geneve.

Thanks,
Anoop

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
> the new version of BFD over VXLAN includes minor editorial updates and the
> new figure to highlight encapsulation of a BFD control message over VXLAN.
> Your comments and questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated.
> Authors would like NVO3 WG to consider adoption of this work.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:42 AM
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06.txt
> To: Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Mallik Mudigonda <
> mmudigon@cisco.com>, Sudarsan Paragiri <sparagiri@juniper.net>, Vengada
> Prasad Govindan <venggovi@cisco.com>, Santosh Pallagatti <
> santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan
> Revision:       06
> Title:          BFD for VXLAN
> Document date:  2017-10-13
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          10
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-
> drafts/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> doc/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06
> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?
> url2=draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06
>
> Abstract:
>    This document describes use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
>    (BFD) protocol in Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network (VXLAN)
>    overlay network.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nvo3 mailing list
> nvo3@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
>
>

--94eb2c06c8621fa5f7055b8353c7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Since the NVO3 WG is moving forward with standardization o=
f only the Geneve encap, shouldn&#39;t this draft be written for BFD on Gen=
eve?<div><br></div><div>I guess I&#39;m looking for direction from the chai=
rs and AD as to whether the WG can/should spend time standardizing anything=
 over VXLAN given that VXLAN itself is not a WG standard.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Back to the draft -- if this were written for Geneve, I would expec=
t it to cover both L2 and L3 over Geneve.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,<=
/div><div>Anoop</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Greg Mirsky <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr">Dear All,<div>the new version of BFD over VXLAN includes minor editor=
ial updates and the new figure to highlight encapsulation of a BFD control =
message over VXLAN. Your comments and questions are always welcome and grea=
tly appreciated.</div><div>Authors would like NVO3 WG to consider adoption =
of this work.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>Fro=
m: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername"></b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;</span><br>Date: Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:42 AM<br>Subject: New Version N=
otification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-<wbr>06.txt<br>To: Gregory Mirs=
ky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirs=
ky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Mallik Mudigonda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mmudigon@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank">mmudigon@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Sudarsan Paragiri &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:sparagiri@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sparagiri@juniper=
.net</a>&gt;, Vengada Prasad Govindan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:venggovi@cisco.=
com" target=3D"_blank">venggovi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Santosh Pallagatti &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">santosh.pa=
llagatti@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06<wbr>.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan<b=
r>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A006<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD for VXLAN<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-10-13<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draft-spallagatt=
i-bfd-v<wbr>xlan-06.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxla<wbr>n/</=
a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/d<wbr>raft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd<wbr>-v=
xlan-06</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-spallagatti-bfd-=
vxl<wbr>an-06</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detect=
ion<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(BFD) protocol in Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network (VXLAN=
)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0overlay network.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
</div><br></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
nvo3 mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/nvo3</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--94eb2c06c8621fa5f7055b8353c7--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 05:50:46 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmUnB6jaMMytXtiUZf98RnLG8f6LusmDdAXHYkb2y1AE5A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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--94eb2c1cd2f23dacb9055bd1b055
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Dear All,
this new document proposes clarification of two questions brought up in
course of recent discussion of RFC 5884:

   - use of Return mode values in bootstrapping BFD session echo request;
   - inclusion of BFD Discriminator TLV in echo response to the
   bootstrapping echo request.

Your comments, questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for
draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Yanhua Zhao <
zhao.yanhua3@zte.com.cn>



A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify
Revision:       00
Title:          Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Bootstrap BFD over MPLS LSP
Document date:  2017-10-18
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          4
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-
bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-
bootstrap-clarify/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-
bootstrap-clarify-00
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-
bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00


Abstract:
   This document, if approved, updates RFC 5884 by clarifying procedures
   for using MPLS LSP ping to bootstrap Bidirectional Forwarding
   Detection (BFD) over MPLS Label Switch Path.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--94eb2c1cd2f23dacb9055bd1b055
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>this new document proposes clarification of =
two questions brought up in course of recent discussion of RFC 5884:</div><=
div><ul><li>use of Return mode values in bootstrapping BFD session echo req=
uest;</li><li>inclusion of BFD Discriminator TLV in echo response to the bo=
otstrapping echo request.</li></ul><div>Your comments, questions are always=
 welcome and greatly appreciated.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><d=
iv>Greg</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded=
 message ----------<br>From: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername"></b> <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM<br>Subject: New=
 Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt<br=
>To: Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsk=
y@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Yanhua Zhao &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhao.yanhua3@zte.com=
.cn">zhao.yanhua3@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bootstrap-clarify-00.txt<b=
r>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bo=
otstrap-clarify<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Boot=
strap BFD over MPLS LSP<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-10-18<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 4<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draf=
t-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bootstrap-clarify-00.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify/" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<=
wbr>bootstrap-clarify/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bootstrap=
-clarify-00</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpl=
s-<wbr>bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document, if approved, updates RFC 5884 by clarifying pro=
cedures<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for using MPLS LSP ping to bootstrap Bidirectional Forwarding<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Detection (BFD) over MPLS Label Switch Path.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
</div><br></div></div>

--94eb2c1cd2f23dacb9055bd1b055--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 08:18:46 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmV85xh_Et5VQVkyVN_eOEjSKiAmmaTHjVSDreOOcFpaWA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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Hi Carlos,
thank you for taking interest in the proposal, much appreciated. Please
find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>>.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Greg,
>
> This document seems to say =E2=80=9Cuse =E2=80=9CDo not Reply=E2=80=9D re=
ply mode, and even if you
> reply do not use the BFD Disc TLV, because it is not used.
>
GIM>> To be precise it says "SHOULD use "Do not Reply" thus preserving
compliance of implementations that do otherwise.

>
> Wouldn=E2=80=99t it be simpler to say =E2=80=9Cfollow RFC 8029, and the i=
ngress does not
> care about the BFD Disc TLV in the reply=E2=80=9D? This would not suddenl=
y make
> uncompliant existing implementations, potentially.
>
GIM>> I agree that normative language on handling echo reply is bit
restrictive. My goal is to have good discussion and see what others think.

>
> Also I wonder if this should be bfd-mpls instead of mpls-bfd, given where
> RFC 5884 was advanced.
>
GIM>> Probably it should be the way you've suggested. Hope it is not a big
problem for individual draft.

>
> Thanks,
>
> =E2=80=94
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
> On Oct 18, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
> this new document proposes clarification of two questions brought up in
> course of recent discussion of RFC 5884:
>
>    - use of Return mode values in bootstrapping BFD session echo request;
>    - inclusion of BFD Discriminator TLV in echo response to the
>    bootstrapping echo request.
>
> Your comments, questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-
> bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
> To: Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Yanhua Zhao <
> zhao.yanhua3@zte.com.cn>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify
> Revision:       00
> Title:          Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Bootstrap BFD over MPLS LSP
> Document date:  2017-10-18
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          4
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-
> drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/d
> raft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>    This document, if approved, updates RFC 5884 by clarifying procedures
>    for using MPLS LSP ping to bootstrap Bidirectional Forwarding
>    Detection (BFD) over MPLS Label Switch Path.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>

--001a113fbed238a96b055bfbfded
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Carlos,<div>thank you for taking interest in the propos=
al, much appreciated. Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM&gt;&gt;.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Carlo=
s Pignataro (cpignata) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cis=
co.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
Greg,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This document seems to say =E2=80=9Cuse =E2=80=9CDo not Reply=E2=80=9D=
 reply mode, and even if you reply do not use the BFD Disc TLV, because it =
is not used.</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; To be precise it says=
 &quot;SHOULD use &quot;Do not Reply&quot; thus preserving compliance of im=
plementations that do otherwise.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wouldn=E2=80=99t it be simpler to say =E2=80=9Cfollow RFC 8029, and th=
e ingress does not care about the BFD Disc TLV in the reply=E2=80=9D? This =
would not suddenly make uncompliant existing implementations, potentially.<=
/div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I agree that normative language on=
 handling echo reply is bit restrictive. My goal is to have good discussion=
 and see what others think.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also I wonder if this should be bfd-mpls instead of mpls-bfd, given wh=
ere RFC 5884 was advanced.</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Probabl=
y it should be the way you&#39;ve suggested. Hope it is not a big problem f=
or individual draft.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
=E2=80=94<br>
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
">carlos@cisco.com</a><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more photosynthesis.&quot;</i></div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>On Oct 18, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimi=
rsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div=
>
<br class=3D"m_499446508279855576Apple-interchange-newline">
</div></div><div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,
<div>this new document proposes clarification of two questions brought up i=
n course of recent discussion of RFC 5884:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>use of Return mode values in bootstrapping BFD session echo request;</l=
i><li>inclusion of BFD Discriminator TLV in echo response to the bootstrapp=
ing echo request.</li></ul>
<div>Your comments, questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated.</=
div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername"></b><span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</=
a>&gt;</span><br>
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM<br>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bootstrap-=
clarify-00.txt<br>
To: Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Yanhua Zhao &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zha=
o.yanhua3@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank">zhao.yanhua3@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstra<wbr>p-clarify-00.txt<b=
r>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstr=
<wbr>ap-clarify<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Boot=
strap BFD over MPLS LSP<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-10-18<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 4<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-b<wbr>ootst=
rap-clarify-00.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify/" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-b=
oot<wbr>strap-clarify/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/d<wbr>raft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap<wbr>=
-clarify-00</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpl=
s-bfd<wbr>-bootstrap-clarify-00</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document, if approved, updates RFC 5884 by clarifying pro=
cedures<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for using MPLS LSP ping to bootstrap Bidirectional Forwarding<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Detection (BFD) over MPLS Label Switch Path.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div></div></div>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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Dear All,
new version of the draft includes more detailed specification of why the
ingress LSR is to send BFD control packet to acknowledge failure
notification from the egress over IP network and more detailed description
of encapsulation of the BFD control packet in this case.

Your comments, questions always welcome and greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 6:25 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02.txt
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand
Revision:       02
Title:          BFD in Demand Mode over Point-to-Point MPLS LSP
Document date:  2017-10-23
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          5
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-
demand-02.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-
demand/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-
mpls-demand-02
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-
demand-02

Abstract:
   This document describes procedures for using Bidirectional Forwarding
   Detection (BFD) in Demand mode to detect data plane failures in
   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) point-to-point Label Switched
   Paths.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--94eb2c1cd2f2646f08055c4a21f2
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>new version of the draft includes more detai=
led specification of why the ingress LSR is to send BFD control packet to a=
cknowledge failure notification from the egress over IP network and more de=
tailed description of encapsulation of the BFD control packet in this case.=
</div><div><br></div><div>Your comments, questions always welcome and great=
ly appreciated.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg<br><div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>Fro=
m: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername"></b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Dat=
e: Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 6:25 PM<br>Subject: New Version Notification for dr=
aft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02.txt<br>To: Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-<wbr>02.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand<=
br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A002<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD in Demand Mode over Point-to-P=
oint MPLS LSP<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-10-23<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 5<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draft-mirsky-bf=
d-mpls-<wbr>demand-02.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-<wbr>demand/=
</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https=
://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-<wbr>02</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-<wbr>mpls-=
demand-02</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-bfd-mpls=
-<wbr>demand-02</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes procedures for using Bidirectional For=
warding<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Detection (BFD) in Demand mode to detect data plane failures i=
n<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) point-to-point Label Swit=
ched<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Paths.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
</div><br></div></div></div>

--94eb2c1cd2f2646f08055c4a21f2--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
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Dear All,
updated versions of drafts first presented in Prague have been published:

   - BFD in Demand Mode over Point-to-Point MPLS LSP
   <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02>
   - Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) in Segment Routing Networks
   Using MPLS Dataplane
   <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-02>
   - BFD for Multipoint Networks over Point-to-Multi-Point MPLS LSP
   <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-p2mp-bfd-02>

Also new work Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Bootstrap BFD over MPLS LSP
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00> has
been published recently.

Your comments, questions, suggestions always welcome and greatly
appreciated. Looking forward to present them and discuss them in Singapore.

Regards,
Greg

--94eb2c0d8ea8265925055c4fa69d
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>updated versions of drafts first presented i=
n Prague have been published:</div><div><ul><li><a href=3D"https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02">BFD in Demand Mode o=
ver Point-to-Point MPLS LSP</a><br></li><li><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-02">Bidirectional Forwarding Dete=
ction (BFD) in Segment Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane</a><br></li><l=
i><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-p2mp-b=
fd-02">BFD for Multipoint Networks over Point-to-Multi-Point MPLS LSP</a><b=
r></li></ul><div>Also new work=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><a hre=
f=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00=
">Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Bootstrap BFD over MPLS LSP</a>=C2=A0has be=
en published recently.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b=
r></span></div><div>Your comments, questions, suggestions always welcome an=
d greatly appreciated. Looking forward to present them and discuss them in =
Singapore.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></di=
v>

--94eb2c0d8ea8265925055c4fa69d--


From nobody Mon Oct 30 08:49:40 2017
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
        Authors         : Reshad Rahman
                          Lianshu Zheng
                          Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Santosh Pallagatti
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bfd-yang-07.txt
	Pages           : 62
	Date            : 2017-10-30

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-07
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-yang-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

