
From nobody Thu Mar  1 18:52:34 2018
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
        Authors         : Reshad Rahman
                          Lianshu Zheng
                          Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Santosh Pallagatti
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bfd-yang-10.txt
	Pages           : 69
	Date            : 2018-03-01

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).

   The YANG modules in this document conform to the Network Management
   Datastore Architecture (NMDA).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-10
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-yang-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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From nobody Sun Mar  4 06:09:40 2018
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
        Authors         : Reshad Rahman
                          Lianshu Zheng
                          Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Santosh Pallagatti
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bfd-yang-11.txt
	Pages           : 73
	Date            : 2018-03-04

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).

   The YANG modules in this document conform to the Network Management
   Datastore Architecture (NMDA).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-11
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-11

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-yang-11


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Sun Mar  4 06:12:38 2018
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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: =?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBTY2jDtm53w6RsZGVy?= <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, "yang-doctors@ietf.org" <yang-doctors@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-bfd-yang-09
Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-bfd-yang-09
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
        Authors         : Reshad Rahman
                          Lianshu Zheng
                          Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Santosh Pallagatti
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bfd-yang-10.txt
	Pages           : 69
	Date            : 2018-03-01

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).

   The YANG modules in this document conform to the Network Management
   Datastore Architecture (NMDA).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-10
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-yang-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
        Authors         : Reshad Rahman
                          Lianshu Zheng
                          Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Santosh Pallagatti
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bfd-yang-11.txt
	Pages           : 73
	Date            : 2018-03-04

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).

   The YANG modules in this document conform to the Network Management
   Datastore Architecture (NMDA).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-11
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-11

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-yang-11


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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-bfd-yang
Thread-Topic: WGLC on draft-ietf-bfd-yang
Thread-Index: AQHTlT+RYIkGBBtADUmMOQi40LSzSqOfqWoAgBE1MICAAHL1MIAAAxzVgABGPdCAAUtMAIANhgQA
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 14:13:33 +0000
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References: <20180124182206.GP5950@pfrc.org> <20180208200252.GA4073@pfrc.org> <20180211152046.GB4073@pfrc.org> <BE6310D2-6B52-48A5-9FBF-18A4B37F2CBE@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9AD66603@nkgeml513-mbs.china.huawei.com> <F9A40C4B-9217-4CD2-A3CB-3927C8CEB46E@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9AD66BF6@nkgeml513-mbs.china.huawei.com> <8BF7AEBB-86CD-4BF2-8235-3EB2F54ED1F9@cisco.com>
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: WGLC on draft-ietf-bfd-yang
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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-bfd-yang
Thread-Topic: WGLC on draft-ietf-bfd-yang
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 01:20:58 +0000
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References: <20180124182206.GP5950@pfrc.org> <20180208200252.GA4073@pfrc.org> <20180211152046.GB4073@pfrc.org> <BE6310D2-6B52-48A5-9FBF-18A4B37F2CBE@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9AD66603@nkgeml513-mbs.china.huawei.com> <F9A40C4B-9217-4CD2-A3CB-3927C8CEB46E@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9AD66BF6@nkgeml513-mbs.china.huawei.com> <8BF7AEBB-86CD-4BF2-8235-3EB2F54ED1F9@cisco.com> <DABEFA80-F3A0-447C-A64C-A44454797D81@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9AD7936E@nkgeml513-mbs.china.huawei.com>
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: WGLC on draft-ietf-bfd-yang
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--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA9AD793C0nkgeml513mbschi_--


From nobody Tue Mar  6 06:40:54 2018
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org, rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: IPR declarations for draft-ietf-bfd-yang
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As part of the shepherd writeup, we're required to confirm whether or not
there are any IPR disclosures on the BFD Yang module.

Authors, please respond to this thread, copying the mailing list.

-- Jeff


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To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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From nobody Tue Mar  6 07:17:42 2018
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Subject: Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-bfd-multipoint-14
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Jeffrey Haas has requested publication of draft-ietf-bfd-multipoint-14 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the BFD working group.

Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-multipoint/


From nobody Tue Mar  6 07:18:41 2018
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Jeffrey Haas has requested publication of draft-ietf-bfd-multipoint-active-tail-07 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the BFD working group.

Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-multipoint-active-tail/


From nobody Tue Mar  6 07:46:09 2018
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 07:45:58 -0800
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmVpnci0=F7v14HHkhFOPd9Yqt3B2t_W-x3UqCNsn1ea3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IPR declarations for draft-ietf-bfd-yang
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org, rtg-bfd@ietf.org
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I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:47 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

> As part of the shepherd writeup, we're required to confirm whether or not
> there are any IPR disclosures on the BFD Yang module.
>
> Authors, please respond to this thread, copying the mailing list.
>
> -- Jeff
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.<div><b=
r></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:47 AM, Jeffrey Haas=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">=
jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">As p=
art of the shepherd writeup, we&#39;re required to confirm whether or not<b=
r>
there are any IPR disclosures on the BFD Yang module.<br>
<br>
Authors, please respond to this thread, copying the mailing list.<br>
<br>
-- Jeff<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1140189ebe7fda0566c0563f--


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From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IPR declarations for draft-ietf-bfd-yang
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:09:06 -0800
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

> On Mar 6, 2018, at 6:47 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> 
> As part of the shepherd writeup, we're required to confirm whether or not
> there are any IPR disclosures on the BFD Yang module.
> 
> Authors, please respond to this thread, copying the mailing list.
> 
> -- Jeff


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From: Santosh P K <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 21:40:02 +0530
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Subject: Re: IPR declarations for draft-ietf-bfd-yang
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Cc: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org, rtg-bfd@ietf.org
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I am not aware of any IPR for this document.


Thanks
 Santosh P K

On Mar 6, 2018 9:39 PM, "Mahesh Jethanandani" <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.
>
> Mahesh Jethanandani
> mjethanandani@gmail.com
>
> > On Mar 6, 2018, at 6:47 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> >
> > As part of the shepherd writeup, we're required to confirm whether or not
> > there are any IPR disclosures on the BFD Yang module.
> >
> > Authors, please respond to this thread, copying the mailing list.
> >
> > -- Jeff
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">I am not aware of any IPR for this document.=C2=A0<div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks</=
div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0Santosh P K=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mar 6, 2018 9:39 PM, &quot;Mahes=
h Jethanandani&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethan=
andani@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.<br>
<br>
Mahesh Jethanandani<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
&gt; On Mar 6, 2018, at 6:47 AM, Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@p=
frc.org">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; As part of the shepherd writeup, we&#39;re required to confirm whether=
 or not<br>
&gt; there are any IPR disclosures on the BFD Yang module.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Authors, please respond to this thread, copying the mailing list.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -- Jeff<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--001a113f0970dc112a0566c0acbf--


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Thread-Topic: IPR declarations for draft-ietf-bfd-yang
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--Apple-Mail=_AF5EC507-5B31-4961-A5E6-9E71AACEA7EE
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I have received acknowledgments of a lack of IPR against the draft from =
all authors.

A reminder on IETF IPR disclosure rules.  You might be covered by them. =
:-)

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8179#section-5.1 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8179#section-5.1>

-- Jeff


=20
> On Mar 6, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>=20
> As part of the shepherd writeup, we're required to confirm whether or =
not
> there are any IPR disclosures on the BFD Yang module.
>=20
> Authors, please respond to this thread, copying the mailing list.
>=20
> -- Jeff


--Apple-Mail=_AF5EC507-5B31-4961-A5E6-9E71AACEA7EE
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">I have received acknowledgments of a lack of IPR against the =
draft from all authors.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">A reminder on IETF IPR disclosure rules. &nbsp;You might be =
covered by them. :-)</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8179#section-5.1" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8179#section-5.1</a></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">-- Jeff</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Mar 6, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Jeffrey Haas =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" class=3D"">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">As part of the shepherd writeup, we're required to confirm =
whether or not<br class=3D"">there are any IPR disclosures on the BFD =
Yang module.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Authors, please respond to =
this thread, copying the mailing list.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-- =
Jeff<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_AF5EC507-5B31-4961-A5E6-9E71AACEA7EE--


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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" <yang-doctors@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang.all@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-bfd-yang-09
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On Sun, Mar 04, 2018 at 02:12:30PM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote:
> 
> We have made the changes in revs 10 and 11 to address your comments . The exception is module ietf-bfd-types which did not get renamed per reason below.
>

Hi,

here is my re-review of draft-ietf-bfd-yang. I think the document has
significantly improved since the -09 version, the authors have done an
excellent job to improve the document quality.

I have mostly a few minor mostly editorial issues left, except the
first one, which concerns the schema mount use case.

- Thanks for clarifying that the modules can be used on standalone
  devices. The new text is helpful.

  For the LNE and NI use cases, does it make sense to detail the mount
  points that are used? My understanding is that schema mount requires
  that mount points are identified with a "mount-point" extension
  statement, i.e., you can't mount at arbitrary places in the
  hierarchy but only at places that have been designated as mount
  points.

  That all said, since your YANG modules are basically augmenting
  other YANG modules that may be mounted, you do not seem to need a
  separate schema mount. If my understanding is correct, then here is
  a starting point for making this clearer:

  OLD

    When used at the network device level, the BFD YANG model is used
    "as-is".  When the BFD model is to be used in a Logical Network
    Element or in a Network Instance, the approach taken is to do a
    schema-mount (see Schema Mount [I-D.ietf-netmod-schema-mount]) of the
    BFD model in the appropriate location.  For example, if an
    implementation supports BFD IP multihop in network instances, the
    implementation would do schema-mount of the BFD IP multihop model in
    a mount-point which resides in a network instance.

  NEW

    When used at the network device level, the BFD YANG model are used
    "as-is".  When the BFD YANG model is used in a Logical Network
    Element or in a Network Instance, then the BFD YANG model augments
    the mounted routing model for the Logical Network Element or the
    Network Instance.

  Note that with this change, you also do not need a reference to
  schema mount.
  
- Since the different use cases (device, LNE, NI) are discussed right
  at the beginning of Section 2, it seems the following statements in
  Sections 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8, 2.9 are not really needed:

                                   The "bfd" node under control-plane-
   protocol can be used in a network device (top-level), or mounted in
   an LNE or in a network instance.

                                            The "ip-sh" node can be used
   in a network device (top-level), or mounted in an LNE or in a network
   instance.

                                                            The "ip-mh"
   node can be used in a network device (top-level), or mounted in an
   LNE or in a network instance.

                              The "lag" node can be used in a network
   device (top-level), or mounted in an LNE or in a network instance.

                                                             The "mpls"
   node can be used in a network device (top-level), or mounted in an
   LNE or in a network instance.

- The text at the beginning of Section 2.13 should also mention RFC
  8177 since you are importing it.

- It might be useful to give more explicit instructions to IANA. I
  assume you want IANA to update the iana-bfd-types module whenever
  changes are made to the "BFD Diagnostic Codes" registry and "BFD
  Authentication Types" registries. Giving clear instructions what
  IANA is expected to do and when is better than a soft statement such
  as "intended to reflect". But IANA is going to ask questions about
  this anyway during their review I assume.

- The feature definitions in ietf-bfd-types have text of the form "as
  defined in RFC 5880" and perhaps it makes sense to add reference
  statements to these feature definitions. There are also a number of
  identities that say "as per RFC 588X" where perhaps reference
  statements should be added.

- The text at the beginning of Section 2.13 should also	mention	RFC
  6991 since you are importing it. And you are also importing from
  RFC XXXX (the routing model).

- The text at the beginning of Section 2.16 should also mention
  that you import from RFC XXXX (the routing model).

- The text at the beginning of Section 2.17 should also mention that
  you import from RFC 6991 and from RFC XXXX (the routing model).

- The text at the beginning of Section 2.18 should also mention that
  you import from RFC XXXX (the routing model).

- The text at the beginning of Section 2.19 should also mention that
  you import from RFC XXXX (the routing model).

- I have not validated the examples - I hope the authors have done so.
  They look more plausible than in the previous version I reviewed.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
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Subject: Couple questions on draft-chen-bfd-unsolicited
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--0000000000002a3ec1056760cd92
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Dear Authors,
thank you for bringing your proposal to the discussion at BFD meeting in
London. I have couple questions:

   - which BFD mode, Asynchronous or Demand, you envision to be used by the
   Unsolicited BFD;
   - if you consider the Demand mode to be used by the active BFD peer from
   the very start, have you looked at BFD for Multipoint Networks
   <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-multipoint/>. I think
   that Unsolicited BFD is close to special case, p2p it is, that draft.

Regards,
Greg

--0000000000002a3ec1056760cd92
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Authors,<div>thank you for bringing your proposal to =
the discussion at BFD meeting in London. I have couple questions:</div><div=
><ul><li>which BFD mode, Asynchronous or Demand, you envision to be used by=
 the Unsolicited BFD;</li><li>if you consider the Demand mode to be used by=
 the active BFD peer from the very start, have you looked at <a href=3D"htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-multipoint/">BFD for Multipoin=
t Networks</a>. I think that Unsolicited BFD is close to special case, p2p =
it is, that draft.</li></ul>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div>

--0000000000002a3ec1056760cd92--


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Subject: [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC5880 (5205)
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The following errata report has been held for document update 
for RFC5880, "Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5205

--------------------------------------
Status: Held for Document Update
Type: Technical

Reported by: Dave Katz <dkatz@juniper.net>
Date Reported: 2017-12-14
Held by: Alvaro Retana (IESG)

Section: 6.8.4

Original Text
-------------
If Demand mode is not active, and a period of time equal to the
Detection Time passes without receiving a BFD Control packet from the
remote system, and bfd.SessionState is Init or Up, the session has
gone down -- the local system MUST set bfd.SessionState to Down and
bfd.LocalDiag to 1 (Control Detection Time Expired).

Corrected Text
--------------
If Demand mode is not active, and a period of time equal to the
Detection Time passes without receiving a BFD Control packet from the
remote system, the session has
gone down -- the local system MUST set bfd.SessionState to Down and
bfd.LocalDiag to 1 (Control Detection Time Expired).

Notes
-----
This is based on an email I received from Anil Kumar of Nokia (anil.kumar_t_v@nokia.com).

The language as originally written made a session timeout a no-op when in Down state.  This was a gratuitous attempt to avoid a null state transition, but had the side effect of not setting the diag code (and otherwise is no different).

This turns out to be problematic in the case where system "A" signals AdminDown, causing system "B" to respond with Down state.  If the link then fails, the existing verbiage implies that "B" will not report the detection timeout, even locally.

If the link fails in a unidirectional manner (such that "B" is deaf), B will give no indication of a timeout in its outgoing Control packets back to A (which can in fact hear them).

Making the suggested change should ensure that the diagnostic code is always set to Detection Time Expired when Control packets stop arriving, even if the far end system was previously reporting AdminDown.

--------------------------------------
RFC5880 (draft-ietf-bfd-base-11)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
Publication Date    : June 2010
Author(s)           : D. Katz, D. Ward
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "dkatz@juniper.net" <dkatz@juniper.net>, "dkatz@juniper.net" <dkatz@juniper.net>, "dward@juniper.net" <dward@juniper.net>
CC: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC5880 (5205)
Thread-Topic: [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC5880 (5205)
Thread-Index: AQHTu8qrZ/c0qBIVX0mQIO4tuCXkeKPQv7OA
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 05:18:26 +0000
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References: <20180314192822.D731EB81A29@rfc-editor.org>
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--_000_1d83c141ad6a4bc18f546e8e18c6fb18XCHALN001ciscocom_--


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Subject: [Errata Rejected] RFC7880 (5211)
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The following errata report has been rejected for RFC7880,
"Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD)".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5211

--------------------------------------
Status: Rejected
Type: Technical

Reported by: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date Reported: 2017-12-16
Rejected by: Alvaro Retana (IESG)

Section: 6.1

Original Text
-------------
   o  bfd.SessionType: This is a new state variable that describes
      the type of a particular session.  Allowable values for S-BFD
      sessions are:

      *  SBFDInitiator - an S-BFD session on a network node that
         performs a continuity test to a target entity by sending S-BFD
         packets.

      *  SBFDReflector - an S-BFD session on a network node that listens
         for incoming S-BFD Control packets to local entities and
         generates response S-BFD Control packets.

   The bfd.SessionType variable MUST be initialized to the appropriate
   type when an S-BFD session is created.


Corrected Text
--------------
   o  bfd.SessionType: This is a new state variable that describes
      the type of a particular session.  Allowable values for S-BFD
      sessions are:

      *  SBFDNone - indicates that the BFD session is not of S-BFD type.

      *  SBFDInitiator - an S-BFD session on a network node that
         performs a continuity test to a target entity by sending S-BFD
         packets.

      *  SBFDReflector - an S-BFD session on a network node that listens
         for incoming S-BFD Control packets to local entities and
         generates response S-BFD Control packets.

   The bfd.SessionType variable MUST be set to SBFDNone when a BFD
   session other than S-BFD. The bfd.SessionType variable MUST be 
   initialized to the appropriate type when an S-BFD session is created.


Notes
-----
The original text leaves value of the new variable bfd.SessionType unspecified if the type of BFD session is other than S-BFD.
 --VERIFIER NOTES-- 
This report goes beyond pointing out an error in the document. If the changes are to me made (or discussed beyond the thread related to this report), it should be done through the normal WG channels.

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/dI5Y2YXBG3kACEjX5vIZgSJHVw4 

--------------------------------------
RFC7880 (draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base-11)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD)
Publication Date    : July 2016
Author(s)           : C. Pignataro, D. Ward, N. Akiya, M. Bhatia, S. Pallagatti
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 11:00:01 -0700
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Subject: Some questions on the BFD Performance draft
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Dear Authors,
I've read the new draft and have some questions that I would like us to
discuss:

   - which of BFD modes, Async, Demand or Echo, you envision to be used by
   this new TLV;
   - what interval between the BFD control packets with BFD Performance TLV
   would you use;
   - the BFD Performance TLV has space for four timestamps. Should that
   suggest that only Echo mode will be used to measure delay? Because if you
   use Asunc or Demand, then I don't see the need for four timestamp as two
   will be sufficient. In these modes you can only perform one-way measurement
   (of course, one can envision implementation that will read timestamp from
   the remote peer and copy them into the outgoing control packet). Thus, how
   useful to have measurement result at the far end when it is the sender that
   is interested in it? Why not to use one of existing PM OAM tools, TWAMP,
   TWAMP Light or STAMP?

Regards,
Greg

--001a114b0fce69112505679f7e71
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Authors,<div>I&#39;ve read the new draft and have som=
e questions that I would like us to discuss:</div><div><ul><li>which of BFD=
 modes, Async, Demand or Echo, you envision to be used by this new TLV;</li=
><li>what interval between the BFD control packets with BFD Performance TLV=
 would you use;</li><li>the BFD Performance TLV has space for four timestam=
ps. Should that suggest that only Echo mode will be used to measure delay? =
Because if you use Asunc or Demand, then I don&#39;t see the need for four =
timestamp as two will be sufficient. In these modes you can only perform on=
e-way measurement (of course, one can envision implementation that will rea=
d timestamp from the remote peer and copy them into the outgoing control pa=
cket). Thus, how useful to have measurement result at the far end when it i=
s the sender that is interested in it? Why not to use one of existing PM OA=
M tools, TWAMP, TWAMP Light or STAMP?</li></ul><div>Regards,</div></div><di=
v>Greg</div></div>

--001a114b0fce69112505679f7e71--


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From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Some questions on the BFD Performance draft
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:11:35 +0000
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To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
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Greg,

All good questions. Let me preface my comments by saying that we know =
what the issue is, we do not quite know what the right solution is. This =
is an attempt to first establish what we know or understand of a BFD =
session.

The issue as articulated in the draft is that BFD has worked well for =
fixed, predictable link characteristics. It does not do as well for =
links whose characteristics change all the time.

> On Mar 17, 2018, at 6:00 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Dear Authors,
> I've read the new draft and have some questions that I would like us =
to discuss:
> which of BFD modes, Async, Demand or Echo, you envision to be used by =
this new TLV;
See below.
> what interval between the BFD control packets with BFD Performance TLV =
would you use;
To begin with the idea is to take the highest interval. Then study how =
the actual time it takes to traverse the link, changes.
> the BFD Performance TLV has space for four timestamps. Should that =
suggest that only Echo mode will be used to measure delay?
That would be the natural conclusion. And to your point below, we do not =
know whether the other end is interested in the study.
> Because if you use Asunc or Demand, then I don't see the need for four =
timestamp as two will be sufficient. In these modes you can only perform =
one-way measurement (of course, one can envision implementation that =
will read timestamp from the remote peer and copy them into the outgoing =
control packet). Thus, how useful to have measurement result at the far =
end when it is the sender that is interested in it? Why not to use one =
of existing PM OAM tools, TWAMP, TWAMP Light or STAMP?
If we need to study the behavior of BFD, it cannot be out-of-band.=20

> Regards,
> Greg

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Greg,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">All =
good questions. Let me preface my comments by saying that we know what =
the issue is, we do not quite know what the right solution is. This is =
an attempt to first establish what we know or understand of a BFD =
session.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
issue as articulated in the draft is that BFD has worked well for fixed, =
predictable link characteristics. It does not do as well for links whose =
characteristics change all the time.<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Mar =
17, 2018, at 6:00 PM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">Dear Authors,<div class=3D"">I've read the new draft and have =
some questions that I would like us to discuss:</div><div class=3D""><ul =
class=3D""><li class=3D"">which of BFD modes, Async, Demand or Echo, you =
envision to be used by this new =
TLV;</li></ul></div></div></div></blockquote>See below.<br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><ul class=3D""><li class=3D"">what =
interval between the BFD control packets with BFD Performance TLV would =
you use;</li></ul></div></div></div></blockquote>To begin with the idea =
is to take the highest interval. Then study how the actual time it takes =
to traverse the link, changes.<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><ul=
 class=3D""><li class=3D"">the BFD Performance TLV has space for four =
timestamps. Should that suggest that only Echo mode will be used to =
measure delay? </li></ul></div></div></div></blockquote>That would be =
the natural conclusion. And to your point below, we do not know whether =
the other end is interested in the study.<br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><ul class=3D""><li class=3D"">Because if you use Asunc or =
Demand, then I don't see the need for four timestamp as two will be =
sufficient. In these modes you can only perform one-way measurement (of =
course, one can envision implementation that will read timestamp from =
the remote peer and copy them into the outgoing control packet). Thus, =
how useful to have measurement result at the far end when it is the =
sender that is interested in it? Why not to use one of existing PM OAM =
tools, TWAMP, TWAMP Light or =
STAMP?</li></ul></div></div></div></blockquote>If we need to study the =
behavior of BFD, it cannot be out-of-band.&nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div></div><div class=3D"">Greg</div></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Mahesh Jethanandani</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a></div>

</div>
<br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Mon Mar 19 09:19:44 2018
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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:19:48 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: [internet-drafts@ietf.org: I-D Action: draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00.txt]
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Working Group,

A trivial draft I'm hoping to present in the upcoming BFD session if there's
time.


----- Forwarded message from internet-drafts@ietf.org -----

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


        Title           : BFD Encapsulated in Large Packets
        Authors         : Jeffrey Haas
                          Albert Fu
	Filename        : draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00.txt
	Pages           : 5
	Date            : 2018-03-19

Abstract:
   The Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) protocol is commonly
   used to verify connectivity between two systems.  BFD packets are
   typically very small.  It is desirable in some circumstances to know
   that not only is the path between two systems reachable, but also
   that it is capable of carrying a payload of a particular size.  This
   document discusses thoughts on how to implement such a mechanism
   using BFD in Asynchronous mode.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00


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until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

----- End forwarded message -----


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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Slides for IETF 101
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Presenters at the upcoming BFD meeting MUST unicast their slides to the
chairs before the meeting.  Ideally 24 hours before.  Don't make us scrape
through our email at the last second. :-)

-- Jeff & Reshad


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Subject: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
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Dear Authors,
I've read the new draft and would appreciate your consideration of my
comments and questions:

   - if I understand correctly, you prefer using S-BFD in SR domain over
   use of the base BFD. Without arguing with your choice, I'll note that the
   title of the draft doesn't reflect your preference;
   - section 3.4 RFC 7882 already describes use of S-BFD in SR domain. What
   you is missing in the RFC 7882?
   - on more technical side. Use of S-BFD will still result in multiplicity
   of S-BFD packets reflected by egress to ingress. To avoid that we propose
   method to use BFD Demand mode in MPLS data plane as described in
   draft-mirsky-bfd-mlps-demand
   <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02>. It will
   be presented in BFD WG meeting and discussed in SPRING as part of BFD in
   SPRING presentation.

Regards,
Greg

--000000000000bb16080567d4403a
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Authors,<div>I&#39;ve read the new draft and would ap=
preciate your consideration of my comments and questions:</div><div><ul><li=
>if I understand correctly, you prefer using S-BFD in SR domain over use of=
 the base BFD. Without arguing with your choice, I&#39;ll note that the tit=
le of the draft doesn&#39;t reflect your preference;</li><li>section 3.4 RF=
C 7882 already describes use of S-BFD in SR domain. What you is missing in =
the RFC 7882?</li><li>on more technical side. Use of S-BFD will still resul=
t in multiplicity of S-BFD packets reflected by egress to ingress. To avoid=
 that we propose method to use BFD Demand mode in MPLS data plane as descri=
bed in <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-=
02">draft-mirsky-bfd-mlps-demand</a>. It will be presented in BFD WG meetin=
g and discussed in SPRING as part of BFD in SPRING presentation.</li></ul><=
div>Regards,</div></div><div>Greg</div></div>

--000000000000bb16080567d4403a--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:40:00 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmXU_in--u+JAmm47PUBxZvRJjjLAg3gevVfMUz6vqKmhA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [internet-drafts@ietf.org: I-D Action: draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00.txt]
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
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--883d24f1975855abac0567d5b2d8
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Hi Jeff,
thank you for bringing up for discussion this interesting proposal. A
question and a comment ahead of the meeting to save us time:

   - which applications will benefit from monitoring path MTU (PMTU) rather
   from using PMTU discovery and updating the value;
   - note that "The Don't Fragment bit (Section 2.3 of [RFC0791]) of the IP
   payload, when using IP encapsulations, MUST be set." is only applicable to
   IPv4 environment as IPv6 does not allow IP fragmentation.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

> Working Group,
>
> A trivial draft I'm hoping to present in the upcoming BFD session if
> there's
> time.
>
>
> ----- Forwarded message from internet-drafts@ietf.org -----
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>
>
>         Title           : BFD Encapsulated in Large Packets
>         Authors         : Jeffrey Haas
>                           Albert Fu
>         Filename        : draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00.txt
>         Pages           : 5
>         Date            : 2018-03-19
>
> Abstract:
>    The Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) protocol is commonly
>    used to verify connectivity between two systems.  BFD packets are
>    typically very small.  It is desirable in some circumstances to know
>    that not only is the path between two systems reachable, but also
>    that it is capable of carrying a payload of a particular size.  This
>    document discusses thoughts on how to implement such a mechanism
>    using BFD in Asynchronous mode.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
>

--883d24f1975855abac0567d5b2d8
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jeff,<div>thank you for bringing up for discussion this=
 interesting proposal. A question and a comment ahead of the meeting to sav=
e us time:</div><div><ul><li>which applications will benefit from monitorin=
g path MTU (PMTU) rather from using PMTU discovery and updating the value;<=
/li><li>note that &quot;The Don&#39;t Fragment bit (Section 2.3 of [RFC0791=
]) of the IP payload, when using IP encapsulations, MUST be set.&quot; is o=
nly applicable to IPv4 environment as IPv6 does not allow IP fragmentation.=
</li></ul>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Jeffrey Haas <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">jh=
aas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Workin=
g Group,<br>
<br>
A trivial draft I&#39;m hoping to present in the upcoming BFD session if th=
ere&#39;s<br>
time.<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Forwarded message from <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">in=
ternet-drafts@ietf.org</a> -----<br>
<br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 BFD Encapsulated in Large Packets<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Jeff=
rey Haas<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Albert Fu<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-haa=
s-bfd-large-packets-<wbr>00.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 5<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2018-03-19<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) protocol is commo=
nly<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used to verify connectivity between two systems.=C2=A0 BFD pac=
kets are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0typically very small.=C2=A0 It is desirable in some circumstan=
ces to know<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that not only is the path between two systems reachable, but a=
lso<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that it is capable of carrying a payload of a particular size.=
=C2=A0 This<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0document discusses thoughts on how to implement such a mechani=
sm<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0using BFD in Asynchronous mode.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets/" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/=
draft-haas-bfd-large-<wbr>packets/</a><br>
<br>
There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
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as-bfd-large-packets-<wbr>00</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-packe=
ts-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<w=
br>doc/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-<wbr>packets-00</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
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<br>
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<br>
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<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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Subject: Re: [internet-drafts@ietf.org: I-D Action: draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00.txt]
From: PFFC JHAAS <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Thanks for your comments, Greg.=20

Non tcp applications like financial stuff are an excellent example.=20

Jeff

> On Mar 20, 2018, at 10:40, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Jeff,
> thank you for bringing up for discussion this interesting proposal. A ques=
tion and a comment ahead of the meeting to save us time:
> which applications will benefit from monitoring path MTU (PMTU) rather fro=
m using PMTU discovery and updating the value;
> note that "The Don't Fragment bit (Section 2.3 of [RFC0791]) of the IP pay=
load, when using IP encapsulations, MUST be set." is only applicable to IPv4=
 environment as IPv6 does not allow IP fragmentation.
> Regards,
> Greg
>=20
>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>> Working Group,
>>=20
>> A trivial draft I'm hoping to present in the upcoming BFD session if ther=
e's
>> time.
>>=20
>>=20
>> ----- Forwarded message from internet-drafts@ietf.org -----
>>=20
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
>>=20
>>=20
>>         Title           : BFD Encapsulated in Large Packets
>>         Authors         : Jeffrey Haas
>>                           Albert Fu
>>         Filename        : draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00.txt
>>         Pages           : 5
>>         Date            : 2018-03-19
>>=20
>> Abstract:
>>    The Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) protocol is commonly
>>    used to verify connectivity between two systems.  BFD packets are
>>    typically very small.  It is desirable in some circumstances to know
>>    that not only is the path between two systems reachable, but also
>>    that it is capable of carrying a payload of a particular size.  This
>>    document discusses thoughts on how to implement such a mechanism
>>    using BFD in Asynchronous mode.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets/
>>=20
>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00
>>=20
>>=20
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>=20
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>=20
>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Thanks for your comments, Greg.&nbsp;<div><=
br></div><div>Non tcp applications like financial stuff are an excellent exa=
mple.&nbsp;<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Jeff</div><div><br>On Mar 2=
0, 2018, at 10:40, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jeff,<div>thank you for bringing up for discussion t=
his interesting proposal. A question and a comment ahead of the meeting to s=
ave us time:</div><div><ul><li>which applications will benefit from monitori=
ng path MTU (PMTU) rather from using PMTU discovery and updating the value;<=
/li><li>note that "The Don't Fragment bit (Section 2.3 of [RFC0791]) of the I=
P payload, when using IP encapsulations, MUST be set." is only applicable to=
 IPv4 environment as IPv6 does not allow IP fragmentation.</li></ul>Regards,=
</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Jeffrey Haas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Working Group,<br>
<br>
A trivial draft I'm hoping to present in the upcoming BFD session if there's=
<br>
time.<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Forwarded message from <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">int=
ernet-drafts@ietf.org</a> -----<br>
<br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directori=
es.<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Title&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: B=
FD Encapsulated in Large Packets<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Authors&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: Jeffr=
ey Haas<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; Albert Fu<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Filename&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : draft-haas=
-bfd-large-packets-<wbr>00.txt<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pages&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: 5=
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Date&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : 2=
018-03-19<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;The Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) protocol is common=
ly<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;used to verify connectivity between two systems.&nbsp; BFD pack=
ets are<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;typically very small.&nbsp; It is desirable in some circumstanc=
es to know<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;that not only is the path between two systems reachable, but al=
so<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;that it is capable of carrying a payload of a particular size.&=
nbsp; This<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;document discusses thoughts on how to implement such a mechanis=
m<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;using BFD in Asynchronous mode.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets/" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/dr=
aft-haas-bfd-large-<wbr>packets/</a><br>
<br>
There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-packets-00" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-haas-b=
fd-large-packets-<wbr>00</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-packet=
s-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr=
>doc/html/draft-haas-bfd-large-<wbr>packets-00</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission=
<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tools=
.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/</a><br>
<br>
----- End forwarded message -----<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Tue Mar 20 06:05:42 2018
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Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
        Authors         : Reshad Rahman
                          Lianshu Zheng
                          Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Santosh Pallagatti
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12.txt
	Pages           : 74
	Date            : 2018-03-20

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).

   The YANG modules in this document conform to the Network Management
   Datastore Architecture (NMDA).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12.txt
has been successfully submitted by Reshad Rahman and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-ietf-bfd-yang
Revision:	12
Title:		YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
Document date:	2018-03-20
Group:		bfd
Pages:		74
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).

   The YANG modules in this document conform to the Network Management
   Datastore Architecture (NMDA).

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:57:39 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmVmBws9jkAKkjyDn+_pcEr5MZbq+aHEY8MsGSn=H4nMcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
Cc: "draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" <draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org>, spring <spring@ietf.org>,  "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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Hi Ketan,
thank you for the most expedient and very detailed response. I'd note that
using S-BFD leaves fault detection dependent on convergence time of the IP
network. This problem discussed in details in draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed
and draft-mirsky-spring-bfd.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your review and comments. Please check inline below for
> responses.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 20 March 2018 08:57
> *To:* draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org; spring <spring@ietf.org>;
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
>
>
>
> Dear Authors,
>
> I've read the new draft and would appreciate your consideration of my
> comments and questions:
>
>    - if I understand correctly, you prefer using S-BFD in SR domain over
>    use of the base BFD. Without arguing with your choice, I'll note that the
>    title of the draft doesn't reflect your preference;
>
> *[KT] **The choice of title seemed correct since the draft does analysis
> of the different BFD options for SR Policies before preferring SBFD.*
>
>    - section 3.4 RFC 7882 already describes use of S-BFD in SR domain.
>    What you is missing in the RFC 7882?
>
> *[KT] **RFC7882 describes the SBFD use cases and its applicability to SR.
> This draft does comparison between the BFD modes that borrows from RSVP-TE
> tunnels usage against S-BFD mode to analyze what is more suitable for SR
> Policies. This analysis is important to document and to indicate why the
> authors propose S-BFD rather than BFD is more suitable for SR Policies.*
>
>    - on more technical side. Use of S-BFD will still result in
>    multiplicity of S-BFD packets reflected by egress to ingress. To avoid that
>    we propose method to use BFD Demand mode in MPLS data plane as described in
>    draft-mirsky-bfd-mlps-demand
>    <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02>. It will
>    be presented in BFD WG meeting and discussed in SPRING as part of BFD in
>    SPRING presentation.
>
> *[KT] **The BFD on-demand proposal along with the draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
> basically re-uses concepts like need for bootstrap with LSP ping, setup of
> state on the egress router from RSVP-TE and IMHO is not suitable for SR
> Policies unlike S-BFD which is a much simpler and scalable solution that
> does not setup a per SR Policy state on the egress node. *
>
> *Thanks,*
>
> *Ketan*
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>

--000000000000edab040567daf8de
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Ketan,<div>thank you for the most expedient and very de=
tailed response. I&#39;d note that using S-BFD leaves fault detection depen=
dent on convergence time of the IP network. This problem discussed in detai=
ls in draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed and draft-mirsky-spring-bfd.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Ketan Tala=
ulikar (ketant) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-IN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2516240820860306636WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks for your review and comments. =
Please check inline below for responses.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 March 2018 08:57<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-<wbr>policy@ietf.org</a>; spring &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
; <a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a=
><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Authors,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#39;ve read the new draft and would appreciate you=
r consideration of my comments and questions:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
if I understand correctly, you prefer using S-BFD in SR domain over use of =
the base BFD. Without arguing with your choice, I&#39;ll note that the titl=
e of the draft doesn&#39;t reflect your preference;<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[KT]
</span></i></b><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">The choic=
e of title seemed correct since the draft does analysis of the different BF=
D options for SR Policies before preferring SBFD.</span></i></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"=
">
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
section 3.4 RFC 7882 already describes use of S-BFD in SR domain. What you =
is missing in the RFC 7882?<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[KT]
</span></i></b><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">RFC7882 d=
escribes the SBFD use cases and its applicability to SR. This draft does co=
mparison between the BFD modes that borrows from RSVP-TE tunnels usage agai=
nst S-BFD mode to analyze what is more
 suitable for SR Policies. This analysis is important to document and to in=
dicate why the authors propose S-BFD rather than BFD is more suitable for S=
R Policies.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p><span cla=
ss=3D"">
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
on more technical side. Use of S-BFD will still result in multiplicity of S=
-BFD packets reflected by egress to ingress. To avoid that we propose metho=
d to use BFD Demand mode in MPLS data plane as described in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02" tar=
get=3D"_blank">draft-mirsky-bfd-mlps-demand</a>. It will be presented in BF=
D WG meeting and discussed in SPRING as part of BFD in SPRING presentation.=
<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[KT]
</span></i></b><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">The BFD o=
n-demand proposal along with the draft-mirsky-spring-bfd basically re-uses =
concepts like need for bootstrap with LSP ping, setup of state on the egres=
s router from RSVP-TE and IMHO is not
 suitable for SR Policies unlike S-BFD which is a much simpler and scalable=
 solution that does not setup a per SR Policy state on the egress node.
<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">T=
hanks,<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">K=
etan</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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--_000_5F91613C194E4C0CABC02C27E9AFAB4Bciscocom_--


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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 09:51:14 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" <yang-doctors@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang.all@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-bfd-yang-09
Message-ID: <20180321085114.7yb5vqcwlyr4aejh@elstar.local>
Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Mail-Followup-To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "yang-doctors@ietf.org" <yang-doctors@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang.all@ietf.org>
References: <151868731494.7525.9572645824096052010@ietfa.amsl.com> <6A04AE1F-F538-40CD-BFB4-3452B50C7F9D@cisco.com> <9A6B372F-2FD1-409A-BF3B-AFF48D1E74B4@cisco.com> <F5EE16C2-B4E3-4B0A-835F-EB729900323E@cisco.com> <20180313145844.c5zz27p6tscl7me6@elstar.local> <5A6DEA92-C05C-476C-8CE0-F314E88D1ACF@cisco.com>
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Reshad,

this looks good. You proabably also want to update references to point
to the RFCs that just recently appeared:

- replace [I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams] with [RFC8340]
- replace [I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores] with [RFC8342]
- replace [I-D.ietf-netmod-rfc7277bis] with [RFC8344]

/js

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 01:06:27PM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote:
> Hi Juergen,
> 
> Thanks again for the excellent review. We've just published rev12 to address your latest comments.
> 
> Please see inline.
> 
> Regards,
> Reshad.
> ﻿
> ﻿On 2018-03-13, 10:58 AM, "Juergen Schoenwaelder" <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
> 
>     On Sun, Mar 04, 2018 at 02:12:30PM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote:
>     > 
>     > We have made the changes in revs 10 and 11 to address your comments . The exception is module ietf-bfd-types which did not get renamed per reason below.
>     >
>     
>     Hi,
>     
>     here is my re-review of draft-ietf-bfd-yang. I think the document has
>     significantly improved since the -09 version, the authors have done an
>     excellent job to improve the document quality.
>     
>     I have mostly a few minor mostly editorial issues left, except the
>     first one, which concerns the schema mount use case.
>     
>     - Thanks for clarifying that the modules can be used on standalone
>       devices. The new text is helpful.
>     
>       For the LNE and NI use cases, does it make sense to detail the mount
>       points that are used? My understanding is that schema mount requires
>       that mount points are identified with a "mount-point" extension
>       statement, i.e., you can't mount at arbitrary places in the
>       hierarchy but only at places that have been designated as mount
>       points.
>     
>       That all said, since your YANG modules are basically augmenting
>       other YANG modules that may be mounted, you do not seem to need a
>       separate schema mount. If my understanding is correct, then here is
>       a starting point for making this clearer:
>     
>       OLD
>     
>         When used at the network device level, the BFD YANG model is used
>         "as-is".  When the BFD model is to be used in a Logical Network
>         Element or in a Network Instance, the approach taken is to do a
>         schema-mount (see Schema Mount [I-D.ietf-netmod-schema-mount]) of the
>         BFD model in the appropriate location.  For example, if an
>         implementation supports BFD IP multihop in network instances, the
>         implementation would do schema-mount of the BFD IP multihop model in
>         a mount-point which resides in a network instance.
>     
>       NEW
>     
>         When used at the network device level, the BFD YANG model are used
>         "as-is".  When the BFD YANG model is used in a Logical Network
>         Element or in a Network Instance, then the BFD YANG model augments
>         the mounted routing model for the Logical Network Element or the
>         Network Instance.
>     
>       Note that with this change, you also do not need a reference to
>       schema mount.
> <RR> Done.
>       
>     - Since the different use cases (device, LNE, NI) are discussed right
>       at the beginning of Section 2, it seems the following statements in
>       Sections 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8, 2.9 are not really needed:
>     
>                                        The "bfd" node under control-plane-
>        protocol can be used in a network device (top-level), or mounted in
>        an LNE or in a network instance.
>     
>                                                 The "ip-sh" node can be used
>        in a network device (top-level), or mounted in an LNE or in a network
>        instance.
>     
>                                                                 The "ip-mh"
>        node can be used in a network device (top-level), or mounted in an
>        LNE or in a network instance.
>     
>                                   The "lag" node can be used in a network
>        device (top-level), or mounted in an LNE or in a network instance.
>     
>                                                                  The "mpls"
>        node can be used in a network device (top-level), or mounted in an
>        LNE or in a network instance.
> <RR> Done
>     
>     - The text at the beginning of Section 2.13 should also mention RFC
>       8177 since you are importing it.
> <RR> Done
> 
>     - It might be useful to give more explicit instructions to IANA. I
>       assume you want IANA to update the iana-bfd-types module whenever
>       changes are made to the "BFD Diagnostic Codes" registry and "BFD
>       Authentication Types" registries. Giving clear instructions what
>       IANA is expected to do and when is better than a soft statement such
>       as "intended to reflect". But IANA is going to ask questions about
>       this anyway during their review I assume.
> <RR> Updated 5.1
>     
>     - The feature definitions in ietf-bfd-types have text of the form "as
>       defined in RFC 5880" and perhaps it makes sense to add reference
>       statements to these feature definitions. There are also a number of
>       identities that say "as per RFC 588X" where perhaps reference
>       statements should be added.
> <RR> Added reference sections to the feature definitions and identities.
>     
>     - The text at the beginning of Section 2.13 should also	mention	RFC
>       6991 since you are importing it. And you are also importing from
>       RFC XXXX (the routing model).
> <RR> 2.13 already mentions RFC 6991 but it was missing from 2.15 and 2.17 (it's been added). 2.13 already has mention of 8022bis (routing model). 8022bis is now rfc8349.
> 
>     - The text at the beginning of Section 2.16 should also mention
>       that you import from RFC XXXX (the routing model).
> <RR> We now mention rfc8349 (8022bis).
>     
>     - The text at the beginning of Section 2.17 should also mention that
>       you import from RFC 6991 and from RFC XXXX (the routing model).
> <RR> Added mention of RFC6991.
>     
>     - The text at the beginning of Section 2.18 should also mention that
>       you import from RFC XXXX (the routing model).
> <RR> We now mention rfc8349  (8022bis).
>     
>     - The text at the beginning of Section 2.19 should also mention that
>       you import from RFC XXXX (the routing model).
> <RR> We now mention rfc8349   (8022bis).
>     
>     - I have not validated the examples - I hope the authors have done so.
>       They look more plausible than in the previous version I reviewed.
> <RR> Yes we have validated them using yanglint.
>     
>     /js
>     
>     -- 
>     Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
>     Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
>     Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>     
> 

> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 06:05:36 -0700
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Reshad Rahman
>  <rrahman@cisco.com>, Juniper Networks <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>,
>  Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Greg Mirsky
>  <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Santosh Pallagatti
>  <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>, Lianshu Zheng <vero.zheng@huawei.com>
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12.txt
> Message-ID: <152155113615.9798.6292162729217739657.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>
> 
> 
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Reshad Rahman and posted to the
> IETF repository.
> 
> Name:		draft-ietf-bfd-yang
> Revision:	12
> Title:		YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
> Document date:	2018-03-20
> Group:		bfd
> Pages:		74
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang
> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-yang-12
> 
> Abstract:
>    This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
>    and manage Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).
> 
>    The YANG modules in this document conform to the Network Management
>    Datastore Architecture (NMDA).
> 
>                                                                                   
> 
> 
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> 
> The IETF Secretariat
> 
> 


-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
CC: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" <yang-doctors@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang.all@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-bfd-yang-09
Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-bfd-yang-09
Thread-Index: AQHTvk/5L5WgcxXMZkKtr+wA4JoiDKPauroAgAAIBQA=
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 09:19:57 +0000
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References: <151868731494.7525.9572645824096052010@ietfa.amsl.com> <6A04AE1F-F538-40CD-BFB4-3452B50C7F9D@cisco.com> <9A6B372F-2FD1-409A-BF3B-AFF48D1E74B4@cisco.com> <F5EE16C2-B4E3-4B0A-835F-EB729900323E@cisco.com> <20180313145844.c5zz27p6tscl7me6@elstar.local> <5A6DEA92-C05C-476C-8CE0-F314E88D1ACF@cisco.com> <20180321085114.7yb5vqcwlyr4aejh@elstar.local>
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 09:28:58 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmVvfiimV1VvW_pFkjDhHLt5hdCnf7Et3kN7Pn4Sex3M=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
Cc: "draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" <draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org>, spring <spring@ietf.org>,  "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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Hi Ketan,
I'd point that even though you believe that S-BFD session monitors only the
SR tunnel, it, in fact, monitors the return path from egress to the ingress
of the tunnel. And that is where convergence of the IP network will play
role. I can provide you with more detailed explanation of the scenario or
you can read the draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed as it is applicable to all TE
paths monitored by xBFD.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:05 AM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> S-BFD allows for continuous monitoring of the SR path corresponding to the
> SR Policy. The proposal is to use it for continuous monitoring. This is
> where there is perhaps a disconnect?
>
>
>
> They key part is that the authors of draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy do not
> propose to have ANY SR policy specific state on any router other than the
> head-end. The mechanism is otherwise stateless and does not involve any
> bootstrapping of state or such mechanism. This is entirely in sync with the
> spirit of SR and draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy.
>
>
>
> Your proposals are very interesting and perhaps relevant to other
> signalled circuits and TE paths like RSVP-TE or MPLS-TP, but they do not
> seem appropriate for SR Policies to me.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 20 March 2018 16:58
> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org; spring <spring@ietf.org>;
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
>
>
>
> Hi Ketan,
>
> thank you for the most expedient and very detailed response. I'd note that
> using S-BFD leaves fault detection dependent on convergence time of the IP
> network. This problem discussed in details in draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed
> and draft-mirsky-spring-bfd.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <
> ketant@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your review and comments. Please check inline below for
> responses.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 20 March 2018 08:57
> *To:* draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org; spring <spring@ietf.org>;
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
>
>
>
> Dear Authors,
>
> I've read the new draft and would appreciate your consideration of my
> comments and questions:
>
>    - if I understand correctly, you prefer using S-BFD in SR domain over
>    use of the base BFD. Without arguing with your choice, I'll note that the
>    title of the draft doesn't reflect your preference;
>
> *[KT] **The choice of title seemed correct since the draft does analysis
> of the different BFD options for SR Policies before preferring SBFD.*
>
>    - section 3.4 RFC 7882 already describes use of S-BFD in SR domain.
>    What you is missing in the RFC 7882?
>
> *[KT] **RFC7882 describes the SBFD use cases and its applicability to SR.
> This draft does comparison between the BFD modes that borrows from RSVP-TE
> tunnels usage against S-BFD mode to analyze what is more suitable for SR
> Policies. This analysis is important to document and to indicate why the
> authors propose S-BFD rather than BFD is more suitable for SR Policies.*
>
>    - on more technical side. Use of S-BFD will still result in
>    multiplicity of S-BFD packets reflected by egress to ingress. To avoid that
>    we propose method to use BFD Demand mode in MPLS data plane as described in
>    draft-mirsky-bfd-mlps-demand
>    <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02>. It will
>    be presented in BFD WG meeting and discussed in SPRING as part of BFD in
>    SPRING presentation.
>
> *[KT] **The BFD on-demand proposal along with the draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
> basically re-uses concepts like need for bootstrap with LSP ping, setup of
> state on the egress router from RSVP-TE and IMHO is not suitable for SR
> Policies unlike S-BFD which is a much simpler and scalable solution that
> does not setup a per SR Policy state on the egress node. *
>
> *Thanks,*
>
> *Ketan*
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>

--0000000000002dd8a20567e8d250
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Ketan,<div>I&#39;d point that even though you believe t=
hat S-BFD session monitors only the SR tunnel, it, in fact, monitors the re=
turn path from egress to the ingress of the tunnel. And that is where conve=
rgence of the IP network will play role. I can provide you with more detail=
ed explanation of the scenario or you can read the draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-dire=
cted as it is applicable to all TE paths monitored by xBFD.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:05 AM, Ketan Talaulik=
ar (ketant) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-IN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_876992574881960443WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">S-BFD allows for continuous monitorin=
g of the SR path corresponding to the SR Policy. The proposal is to use it =
for continuous monitoring.
 This is where there is perhaps a disconnect?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">They key part is that the authors of =
draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy do not propose to have ANY SR policy specifi=
c state on any router
 other than the head-end. The mechanism is otherwise stateless and does not=
 involve any bootstrapping of state or such mechanism. This is entirely in =
sync with the spirit of SR and draft-filsfils-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-p=
olicy.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Your proposals are very interesting a=
nd perhaps relevant to other signalled circuits and TE paths like RSVP-TE o=
r MPLS-TP, but they
 do not seem appropriate for SR Policies to me.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Ketan<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 March 2018 16:58<br>
<b>To:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-<wbr>policy@ietf.org</a>; spring &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
; <a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a=
><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Ketan,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for the most expedient and very detailed r=
esponse. I&#39;d note that using S-BFD leaves fault detection dependent on =
convergence time of the IP network. This problem discussed in details in dr=
aft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed and draft-mirsky-spring-bfd.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (k=
etant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cis=
co.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Greg,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks for your review and comments. =
Please check inline below for responses.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Greg
 Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">greg=
imirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 March 2018 08:57<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">
draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-<wbr>policy@ietf.org</a>; spring &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Authors,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#39;ve read the new draft and would appreciate you=
r consideration of my comments and questions:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
if I understand correctly, you prefer using S-BFD in SR domain over use of =
the base BFD. Without arguing with your choice, I&#39;ll note that the titl=
e of the draft doesn&#39;t reflect your preference;<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[KT]
</span></i></b><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">The choic=
e of title seemed correct since the draft does analysis of the different BF=
D options for SR Policies before preferring SBFD.</span></i></b><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
section 3.4 RFC 7882 already describes use of S-BFD in SR domain. What you =
is missing in the RFC 7882?<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[KT]
</span></i></b><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">RFC7882 d=
escribes the SBFD use cases and its applicability to SR. This draft does co=
mparison between the BFD modes that borrows from RSVP-TE tunnels usage agai=
nst S-BFD mode to analyze what is more
 suitable for SR Policies. This analysis is important to document and to in=
dicate why the authors propose S-BFD rather than BFD is more suitable for S=
R Policies.</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
on more technical side. Use of S-BFD will still result in multiplicity of S=
-BFD packets reflected by egress to ingress. To avoid that we propose metho=
d to use BFD Demand mode in MPLS data plane as described in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02" tar=
get=3D"_blank">
draft-mirsky-bfd-mlps-demand</a>. It will be presented in BFD WG meeting an=
d discussed in SPRING as part of BFD in SPRING presentation.<u></u><u></u><=
/li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[KT]
</span></i></b><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">The BFD o=
n-demand proposal along with the draft-mirsky-spring-bfd basically re-uses =
concepts like need for bootstrap with LSP ping, setup of state on the egres=
s router from RSVP-TE and IMHO is not
 suitable for SR Policies unlike S-BFD which is a much simpler and scalable=
 solution that does not setup a per SR Policy state on the egress node.
</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">T=
hanks,</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">K=
etan</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--0000000000002dd8a20567e8d250--


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From nobody Wed Mar 21 04:38:03 2018
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Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bfd-yang-13.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
        Authors         : Reshad Rahman
                          Lianshu Zheng
                          Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Santosh Pallagatti
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bfd-yang-13.txt
	Pages           : 74
	Date            : 2018-03-21

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).

   The YANG modules in this document conform to the Network Management
   Datastore Architecture (NMDA).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-13
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-yang-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-yang-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Mar 21 06:00:26 2018
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Subject: Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-bfd-yang-13
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Jeffrey Haas has requested publication of draft-ietf-bfd-yang-13 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the BFD working group.

Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/


From nobody Wed Mar 21 10:07:18 2018
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" <draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org>, spring <spring@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
Thread-Topic: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
Thread-Index: AQHTwCliZSgj8IC1WU62rDDDt8alhaPZThjQgABegoCAALkgIIAAW9gAgAAICnA=
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 16:51:01 +0000
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 10:11:05 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmUAD-3Gys=vV9janOyRxi3=uMcN-2BUtPbrsC9d-Xh-SA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
Cc: "draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" <draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org>, spring <spring@ietf.org>,  "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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Hi Ketan,
much obliged by you kind comment on BFD Directed work. The issue with IP
network convergence is the reason we've started work to enable optional
control of the reverse path of BFD session over p2p MPLS LSP.
My concern with the current text of draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy is that
the conclusion drawn from comparison of S-BFD and BFD is not based on
analysis of all possible modes of BFD and all issues related to proactive
failure detection in SR domain, whether SR-MPLS or SRv6.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.co=
m
> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> I am familiar with draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed and that it provides a wa=
y
> for signalling the reverse path to be used by the egress. This relies on
> LSP ping bootstrap. Fully support this work in general.
>
>
>
> When using SBFD for monitoring of SR Policy, the reverse path failure can
> cause false negatives. This I agree and is well known. The other
> draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed allows the head-end to specify another
> alternative reverse path that IP shortest path. But even that can fail an=
d
> result in similar false positive.
>
>
>
> I find it totally confusing when you say it like =E2=80=9Cconvergence tim=
e of IP
> network=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cconvergence of the IP network will play rol=
e=E2=80=9D. What exactly
> has convergence got to do with false negatives with reverse path failures
> at BFD level?
>
>
>
> In any case, the main point about draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy is about
> presenting the analysis of choice of BFD/sBFD for SR Policy and
> recommending SBFD. It is an informational draft for the Spring WG to
> evaluate against other proposals being presented for doing BFD for SR
> Policies.
>
>
>
> There is no change in BFD mechanism proposed at all but still appreciate
> the viewpoints of the BFD WG on this debate. However, the authors of
> draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy request that the analysis be done with SR
> architecture in mind and not just bringing in concepts from stateful and
> circuit oriented MPLS LSPs into SR Policies.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 21 March 2018 09:29
>
> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org; spring <spring@ietf.org>;
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
>
>
>
> Hi Ketan,
>
> I'd point that even though you believe that S-BFD session monitors only
> the SR tunnel, it, in fact, monitors the return path from egress to the
> ingress of the tunnel. And that is where convergence of the IP network wi=
ll
> play role. I can provide you with more detailed explanation of the scenar=
io
> or you can read the draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed as it is applicable to a=
ll
> TE paths monitored by xBFD.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:05 AM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <
> ketant@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> S-BFD allows for continuous monitoring of the SR path corresponding to th=
e
> SR Policy. The proposal is to use it for continuous monitoring. This is
> where there is perhaps a disconnect?
>
>
>
> They key part is that the authors of draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy do no=
t
> propose to have ANY SR policy specific state on any router other than the
> head-end. The mechanism is otherwise stateless and does not involve any
> bootstrapping of state or such mechanism. This is entirely in sync with t=
he
> spirit of SR and draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy.
>
>
>
> Your proposals are very interesting and perhaps relevant to other
> signalled circuits and TE paths like RSVP-TE or MPLS-TP, but they do not
> seem appropriate for SR Policies to me.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 20 March 2018 16:58
> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org; spring <spring@ietf.org>;
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
>
>
>
> Hi Ketan,
>
> thank you for the most expedient and very detailed response. I'd note tha=
t
> using S-BFD leaves fault detection dependent on convergence time of the I=
P
> network. This problem discussed in details in draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directe=
d
> and draft-mirsky-spring-bfd.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <
> ketant@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your review and comments. Please check inline below for
> responses.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 20 March 2018 08:57
> *To:* draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org; spring <spring@ietf.org>;
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy
>
>
>
> Dear Authors,
>
> I've read the new draft and would appreciate your consideration of my
> comments and questions:
>
>    - if I understand correctly, you prefer using S-BFD in SR domain over
>    use of the base BFD. Without arguing with your choice, I'll note that =
the
>    title of the draft doesn't reflect your preference;
>
> *[KT] **The choice of title seemed correct since the draft does analysis
> of the different BFD options for SR Policies before preferring SBFD.*
>
>    - section 3.4 RFC 7882 already describes use of S-BFD in SR domain.
>    What you is missing in the RFC 7882?
>
> *[KT] **RFC7882 describes the SBFD use cases and its applicability to SR.
> This draft does comparison between the BFD modes that borrows from RSVP-T=
E
> tunnels usage against S-BFD mode to analyze what is more suitable for SR
> Policies. This analysis is important to document and to indicate why the
> authors propose S-BFD rather than BFD is more suitable for SR Policies.*
>
>    - on more technical side. Use of S-BFD will still result in
>    multiplicity of S-BFD packets reflected by egress to ingress. To avoid=
 that
>    we propose method to use BFD Demand mode in MPLS data plane as describ=
ed in
>    draft-mirsky-bfd-mlps-demand
>    <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02>. It will
>    be presented in BFD WG meeting and discussed in SPRING as part of BFD =
in
>    SPRING presentation.
>
> *[KT] **The BFD on-demand proposal along with the draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
> basically re-uses concepts like need for bootstrap with LSP ping, setup o=
f
> state on the egress router from RSVP-TE and IMHO is not suitable for SR
> Policies unlike S-BFD which is a much simpler and scalable solution that
> does not setup a per SR Policy state on the egress node. *
>
> *Thanks,*
>
> *Ketan*
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
>
>

--001a114b0fce998c480567fd8654
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Ketan,<div>much obliged by you kind comment on BFD Dire=
cted work. The issue with IP network convergence is the reason we&#39;ve st=
arted work to enable optional control of the reverse path of BFD session ov=
er p2p MPLS LSP.</div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">My c=
oncern with the current text of=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);fo=
nt-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font=
-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,25=
5,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:no=
ne;display:inline">draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy is that the conclusion dr=
awn from comparison of S-BFD and BFD is not based on analysis of all possib=
le modes of BFD and all issues related to proactive failure detection in SR=
 domain, whether SR-MPLS or SRv6.</span></font></div><div><font face=3D"ari=
al, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:40=
0;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:non=
e;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);tex=
t-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display=
:inline"><br></span></font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-=
serif"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-style:normal;font-variant-l=
igatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:nor=
mal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal=
;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:i=
nitial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Regards,</s=
pan></font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;=
font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:s=
tart;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0p=
x;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-deco=
ration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Greg</span></font></div></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 21=
, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-IN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_1720823790111344349WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am familiar with draft-ietf-mpls-bf=
d-directed and that it provides a way for signalling the reverse path to be=
 used by the egress.
 This relies on LSP ping bootstrap. Fully support this work in general.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">When using SBFD for monitoring of SR =
Policy, the reverse path failure can cause false negatives. This I agree an=
d is well known. The
 other draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed allows the head-end to specify another =
alternative reverse path that IP shortest path. But even that can fail and =
result in similar false positive.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I find it totally confusing when you =
say it like =E2=80=9Cconvergence time of IP network=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cc=
onvergence of the IP network will play role=E2=80=9D.
 What exactly has convergence got to do with false negatives with reverse p=
ath failures at BFD level?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In any case, the main point about dra=
ft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy is about presenting the analysis of choice of B=
FD/sBFD for SR Policy
 and recommending SBFD. It is an informational draft for the Spring WG to e=
valuate against other proposals being presented for doing BFD for SR Polici=
es.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">There is no change in BFD mechanism p=
roposed at all but still appreciate the viewpoints of the BFD WG on this de=
bate. However, the
 authors of draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy request that the analysis be don=
e with SR architecture in mind and not just bringing in concepts from state=
ful and circuit oriented MPLS LSPs into SR Policies.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Ketan<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 21 March 2018 09:29</span></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-<wbr>policy@ietf.org</a>; spring &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
; <a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a=
><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy<u></u=
><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Ketan,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#39;d point that even though you believe that S-BF=
D session monitors only the SR tunnel, it, in fact, monitors the return pat=
h from egress to the ingress of the tunnel. And that is where convergence o=
f the IP network will play role. I can
 provide you with more detailed explanation of the scenario or you can read=
 the draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed as it is applicable to all TE paths monit=
ored by xBFD.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:05 AM, Ketan Talaulikar (k=
etant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cis=
co.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Greg,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">S-BFD allows for continuous monitorin=
g of the SR path corresponding to the SR Policy. The proposal
 is to use it for continuous monitoring. This is where there is perhaps a d=
isconnect?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">They key part is that the authors of =
draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy do not propose to have ANY SR policy
 specific state on any router other than the head-end. The mechanism is oth=
erwise stateless and does not involve any bootstrapping of state or such me=
chanism. This is entirely in sync with the spirit of SR and draft-filsfils-=
spring-segment-<wbr>routing-policy.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Your proposals are very interesting a=
nd perhaps relevant to other signalled circuits and TE paths like
 RSVP-TE or MPLS-TP, but they do not seem appropriate for SR Policies to me=
.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Ketan</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Greg
 Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">greg=
imirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 March 2018 16:58<br>
<b>To:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">
draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-<wbr>policy@ietf.org</a>; spring &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Ketan,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for the most expedient and very detailed r=
esponse. I&#39;d note that using S-BFD leaves fault detection dependent on =
convergence time of the IP network. This problem discussed
 in details in draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed and draft-mirsky-spring-bfd.<u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (k=
etant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cis=
co.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Greg,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks for your review and comments. =
Please check inline below for responses.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Greg
 Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">greg=
imirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 March 2018 08:57<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">
draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-<wbr>policy@ietf.org</a>; spring &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> Couple comments on draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Authors,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#39;ve read the new draft and would appreciate you=
r consideration of my comments and questions:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
if I understand correctly, you prefer using S-BFD in SR domain over use of =
the base BFD. Without arguing with your choice, I&#39;ll note that the titl=
e of the draft doesn&#39;t reflect your preference;<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[KT]
</span></i></b><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">The choic=
e of title seemed correct since the draft does analysis of the different BF=
D options for SR Policies before preferring SBFD.</span></i></b><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
section 3.4 RFC 7882 already describes use of S-BFD in SR domain. What you =
is missing in the RFC 7882?<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[KT]
</span></i></b><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">RFC7882 d=
escribes the SBFD use cases and its applicability to SR. This draft does co=
mparison between the BFD modes that borrows from RSVP-TE tunnels usage agai=
nst S-BFD mode to analyze what is more
 suitable for SR Policies. This analysis is important to document and to in=
dicate why the authors propose S-BFD rather than BFD is more suitable for S=
R Policies.</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
on more technical side. Use of S-BFD will still result in multiplicity of S=
-BFD packets reflected by egress to ingress. To avoid that we propose metho=
d to use BFD Demand mode in MPLS data plane as described in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-02" tar=
get=3D"_blank">
draft-mirsky-bfd-mlps-demand</a>. It will be presented in BFD WG meeting an=
d discussed in SPRING as part of BFD in SPRING presentation.<u></u><u></u><=
/li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[KT]
</span></i></b><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">The BFD o=
n-demand proposal along with the draft-mirsky-spring-bfd basically re-uses =
concepts like need for bootstrap with LSP ping, setup of state on the egres=
s router from RSVP-TE and IMHO is not
 suitable for SR Policies unlike S-BFD which is a much simpler and scalable=
 solution that does not setup a per SR Policy state on the egress node.
</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">T=
hanks,</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">K=
etan</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a114b0fce998c480567fd8654--


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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Cc: Ravi Singh <ravis@juniper.net>, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Subject: notification: Changes to draft-ietf-bfd-yang
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The BFD Yang document has beens submitted to the IESG.

I'd like to thank the members of the BFD Yang design team, the authors, and
the Working Group on the effort that went into this document.  Yang
documents in general are difficult things to write, especially with the
evolution of the technology over its time in IETF.

I'd like to also thank Ravi Singh, Jrgen Schnwlder, and Christian Huitema
for their respective directorate reviews that helped contribute to a better
quality document.

-- Jeff

----- Forwarded message from IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org> -----

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 06:00:23 -0700
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>
Subject: Personal ID list of jhaas@pfrc.org notification: Changes to draft-ietf-bfd-yang


Hello,

This is a notification from the Personal ID list of jhaas@pfrc.org.

Document: draft-ietf-bfd-yang,
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-yang/

Change by Jeffrey Haas on 2018-03-21 06:00 PDT:

IETF WG state changed to *Submitted to IESG for Publication* from In WG Last Call

Best regards,

        The Datatracker draft tracking service
        (for the IETF Secretariat)

----- End forwarded message -----


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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
Thread-Index: AQHTSA/EphK3ALfV0kCp1VTG3OCNZaLtCMyAgAAoWACA7TbbgIADQ5qA
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 15:39:26 +0000
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:18:42 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmWz-oKXJuPTxDLyfRUXjAQ6OvT68MPaMRKXDMobbGDFGw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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Hi Reshad,
your analysis of the text is absolutely correct. My concern is the possible
analysis of the Discriminator by ingress LER and it comparing to My
Discriminator of the received BFD control packets. According to the RFC
5884 both must match but because LSP Echo reply does not provide sufficient
information the most likely outcome will be - no matching BFD session found
and thus the text fails. (Yes, it would be rather naive implementation but
...). Thus I propose to add explicit statement for ingress LER not to use
information if received Discriminator TLV in Echo reply.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> In the BFD meeting yesterday there was discussion about lack of clarity o=
n
> what the spec says wrt to the discriminator TLV being sent by the egress
> node in the echo reply and that this causes interop issues. From RFC 5884=
:
>
>
>
> The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
>
>    reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
>
>    the BFD session.
>
>
>
> In the errata:
>
> The LSP Ping
>
> Echo reply message generated by the egress LSR MAY carry the local
>
> discriminator assigned by it for the BFD session, as specified in
>
> section 6.1.
>
> So I think it=E2=80=99s clear that this cannot be the discriminator of th=
e ingress
> node. I agree that this information is useless but still don=E2=80=99t se=
e how it
> can cause any harm, and any implementation which interprets the
> discriminator in the echo reply differently is buggy IMHO.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Reshad (hat off).
>
>
>
> *From: *Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Reshad Rahman
> (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:49 PM
> *To: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" =
<
> cpignata@cisco.com>
>
> *Cc: *"mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-
> bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> While I agree that the echo reply is not needed to bootstrap BFD, and tha=
t
> the BFD Disc TLV is not needed in the reply, doing this doesn=E2=80=99t b=
reak
> anything. So I don=E2=80=99t see the proposed changes as being necessary.
>
>
>
> Does anyone remember why RFC5884  has the echo reply, was it to
> potentially save an echo request from egress for bidirectional case?
>
>
>
> Also, if we do go ahead with the proposed changes in this draft, we=E2=80=
=99ll
> have to fix this errata <https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5085>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Reshad (speaking as individual contributor).
>
>
>
> *From: *Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Greg Mirsky <
> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Friday, October 20, 2017 at 4:19 PM
> *To: *"Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *"mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-
> bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
>
>
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> thank you for taking interest in the proposal, much appreciated. Please
> find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
>
>
> This document seems to say =E2=80=9Cuse =E2=80=9CDo not Reply=E2=80=9D re=
ply mode, and even if you
> reply do not use the BFD Disc TLV, because it is not used.
>
> GIM>> To be precise it says "SHOULD use "Do not Reply" thus preserving
> compliance of implementations that do otherwise.
>
>
>
> Wouldn=E2=80=99t it be simpler to say =E2=80=9Cfollow RFC 8029, and the i=
ngress does not
> care about the BFD Disc TLV in the reply=E2=80=9D? This would not suddenl=
y make
> uncompliant existing implementations, potentially.
>
> GIM>> I agree that normative language on handling echo reply is bit
> restrictive. My goal is to have good discussion and see what others think=
.
>
>
>
> Also I wonder if this should be bfd-mpls instead of mpls-bfd, given where
> RFC 5884 was advanced.
>
> GIM>> Probably it should be the way you've suggested. Hope it is not a bi=
g
> problem for individual draft.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> =E2=80=94
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> this new document proposes clarification of two questions brought up in
> course of recent discussion of RFC 5884:
>
>    - use of Return mode values in bootstrapping BFD session echo request;
>    - inclusion of BFD Discriminator TLV in echo response to the
>    bootstrapping echo request.
>
> Your comments, questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-
> bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
> To: Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Yanhua Zhao <
> zhao.yanhua3@zte.com.cn>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify
> Revision:       00
> Title:          Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Bootstrap BFD over MPLS LSP
> Document date:  2017-10-18
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          4
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-
> drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-
> bootstrap-clarify/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-
> bootstrap-clarify-00
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-
> bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>    This document, if approved, updates RFC 5884 by clarifying procedures
>    for using MPLS LSP ping to bootstrap Bidirectional Forwarding
>    Detection (BFD) over MPLS Label Switch Path.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>
>

--000000000000454d18056802a93e
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Reshad,<div>your analysis of the text is absolutely cor=
rect. My concern is the possible analysis of the Discriminator by ingress L=
ER and it comparing to My Discriminator of the received BFD control packets=
. According to the RFC 5884 both must match but because LSP Echo reply does=
 not provide sufficient information the most likely outcome will be - no ma=
tching BFD session found and thus the text fails. (Yes, it would be rather =
naive implementation but ...). Thus I propose to add explicit statement for=
 ingress LER not to use information if received Discriminator TLV in Echo r=
eply.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 3:=
39 PM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrah=
man@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">rrahman@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-CA" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_5680065987621540159WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In the BFD meeting yesterday th=
ere was discussion about lack of clarity on what the spec says wrt to the d=
iscriminator TLV being sent by the egress node in the echo reply and that t=
his
 causes interop issues. From RFC 5884:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Ec=
ho<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 reply message that carries the lo=
cal discriminator assigned by it for<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the BFD session.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In the errata:<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#2c4353">The LSP Ping<u></u><u><=
/u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#2c4353">Echo reply message gene=
rated by the egress LSR MAY carry the local<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#2c4353">discriminator assigned =
by it for the BFD session, as specified in<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#2c4353">section 6.1.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So I think it=E2=80=99s clear t=
hat this cannot be the discriminator of the ingress node. I agree that this=
 information is useless but still don=E2=80=99t see how it can cause any ha=
rm, and any implementation
 which interprets the discriminator in the echo reply differently is buggy =
IMHO.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Reshad (hat off).<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From=
: </span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Rtg-bfd &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of &quot;Reshad Rahman (rrahman)&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">rrahman@cisco.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:49 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignata=
)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignat=
a@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ie=
tf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpl=
s@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-b=
fd-<wbr>bootstrap-clarify-00.txt<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While I agree that the echo rep=
ly is not needed to bootstrap BFD, and that the BFD Disc TLV is not needed =
in the reply, doing this doesn=E2=80=99t break anything. So I don=E2=80=99t=
 see the proposed
 changes as being necessary.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Does anyone remember why RFC588=
4 =C2=A0has the echo reply, was it to potentially save an echo request from=
 egress for bidirectional case?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Also, if we do go ahead with th=
e proposed changes in this draft, we=E2=80=99ll have to fix this
<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5085" target=3D"_blank">err=
ata</a>.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Reshad (speaking as individual =
contributor).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From=
: </span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Rtg-bfd &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, October 20, 2017 at 4:19 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cp=
ignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ie=
tf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpl=
s@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-b=
fd-<wbr>bootstrap-clarify-00.txt</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_5680065987621540159__MailOriginalBody">=
Hi Carlos, <u></u><u></u></a></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>thank you for taking interest in the proposal,=
 much appreciated. Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM&gt;&gt;.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Carlos Pignat=
aro (cpignata) &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_=
blank"><span>cpignata@cisco.com</span><span></span></a><span>&gt;
 wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Greg, <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>This document seems to say =E2=80=9Cuse =E2=80=
=9CDo not Reply=E2=80=9D reply mode, and even if you reply do not use the B=
FD Disc TLV, because it is not used.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>GIM&gt;&gt; To be precise it says &quot;SHOULD=
 use &quot;Do not Reply&quot; thus preserving compliance of implementations=
 that do otherwise.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Wouldn=E2=80=99t it be simpler to say =E2=80=
=9Cfollow RFC 8029, and the ingress does not care about the BFD Disc TLV in=
 the reply=E2=80=9D? This would not suddenly make uncompliant existing impl=
ementations, potentially.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>GIM&gt;&gt; I agree that normative language on=
 handling echo reply is bit restrictive. My goal is to have good discussion=
 and see what others think.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Also I wonder if this should be bfd-mpls inste=
ad of mpls-bfd, given where RFC 5884 was advanced.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>GIM&gt;&gt; Probably it should be the way you&=
#39;ve suggested. Hope it is not a big problem for individual draft.=C2=A0<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span style=3D"color:black">=E2=80=94<br>
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank"><span>carlos@cisco.com</span><span></span></a><span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black"><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more photosynthesis.&quot;</i></span><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>On Oct 18, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<=
/span><a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span>greg=
imirsky@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span>&gt;
 wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Dear All, <u></u>
<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>this new document proposes clarification of tw=
o questions brought up in course of recent discussion of RFC 5884:<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span>use of Return mode values in bootstrapping BFD session echo request;<=
u></u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span>inclusion of BFD Discriminator TLV in echo response to the bootstrapp=
ing echo request.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Your comments, questions are always welcome an=
d greatly appreciated.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>---------- Forw=
arded message ----------<br>
From: &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span>internet-drafts@ietf.org</span><span></span></a><span>&gt;<br>
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM<br>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bootstrap-=
clarify-00.txt<br>
To: Gregory Mirsky &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank"><span>gregimirsky@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span>&gt;=
,
 Yanhua Zhao &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:zhao.yanhua3@zte.com.cn" target=
=3D"_blank"><span>zhao.yanhua3@zte.com.cn</span><span></span></a><span>&gt;=
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bootstrap-clarify-00.txt<b=
r>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bo=
otstrap-clarify<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Boot=
strap BFD over MPLS LSP<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-10-18<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 4<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </span><a href=3D"https://www=
.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><span>https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draft-mirs=
ky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bootstrap-clarify-00.txt</span><span></span></a><span><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify/" target=3D"_blank=
"><span>https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bo=
otstrap-clarify/</span><span></span></a><span><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00" target=3D"_blank"><span>=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-<wbr>bootstrap-clari=
fy-00</span><span></span></a><span><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span>https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-<wbr=
>bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00</span><span></span></a><span><br>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document, if approved, updates RFC 5884 by clarifying pro=
cedures<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for using MPLS LSP ping to bootstrap Bidirectional Forwarding<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Detection (BFD) over MPLS Label Switch Path.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at </span><a href=3D"http=
://tools.ietf.org/" target=3D"_blank"><span>tools.ietf.org</span><span></sp=
an></a><span>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>______________________________<wbr>___________=
______<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span>mpls@ietf.o=
rg</span><span></span></a><span><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><span>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/mpls</span><span></sp=
an></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--000000000000454d18056802a93e--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 21:14:40 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, mpls@ietf.org, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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Hi Carlos,
if the group agrees that I'm overparanoid I'll accept that and forever hold
my peace.

Regards, Greg

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 7:00 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi, Greg,
>
>
>
> That, to me, reads like over-specifying. Are you aware of any
> implementation attempting to do that?
>
>
>
> There=E2=80=99s no text for that comparison =E2=80=93 why would an implem=
entation do that?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Carlos.
>
>
>
> *From: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM
> *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <
> mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for
> draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
>
>
>
> Hi Reshad,
>
> your analysis of the text is absolutely correct. My concern is the
> possible analysis of the Discriminator by ingress LER and it comparing to
> My Discriminator of the received BFD control packets. According to the RF=
C
> 5884 both must match but because LSP Echo reply does not provide sufficie=
nt
> information the most likely outcome will be - no matching BFD session fou=
nd
> and thus the text fails. (Yes, it would be rather naive implementation bu=
t
> ...). Thus I propose to add explicit statement for ingress LER not to use
> information if received Discriminator TLV in Echo reply.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <
> rrahman@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> In the BFD meeting yesterday there was discussion about lack of clarity o=
n
> what the spec says wrt to the discriminator TLV being sent by the egress
> node in the echo reply and that this causes interop issues. From RFC 5884=
:
>
>
>
> The egress LSR MAY respond with an LSP Ping Echo
>
>    reply message that carries the local discriminator assigned by it for
>
>    the BFD session.
>
>
>
> In the errata:
>
> The LSP Ping
>
> Echo reply message generated by the egress LSR MAY carry the local
>
> discriminator assigned by it for the BFD session, as specified in
>
> section 6.1.
>
> So I think it=E2=80=99s clear that this cannot be the discriminator of th=
e ingress
> node. I agree that this information is useless but still don=E2=80=99t se=
e how it
> can cause any harm, and any implementation which interprets the
> discriminator in the echo reply differently is buggy IMHO.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Reshad (hat off).
>
>
>
> *From: *Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Reshad Rahman
> (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:49 PM
> *To: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" =
<
> cpignata@cisco.com>
>
>
> *Cc: *"mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for
> draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> While I agree that the echo reply is not needed to bootstrap BFD, and tha=
t
> the BFD Disc TLV is not needed in the reply, doing this doesn=E2=80=99t b=
reak
> anything. So I don=E2=80=99t see the proposed changes as being necessary.
>
>
>
> Does anyone remember why RFC5884  has the echo reply, was it to
> potentially save an echo request from egress for bidirectional case?
>
>
>
> Also, if we do go ahead with the proposed changes in this draft, we=E2=80=
=99ll
> have to fix this errata <https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5085>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Reshad (speaking as individual contributor).
>
>
>
> *From: *Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Greg Mirsky <
> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Friday, October 20, 2017 at 4:19 PM
> *To: *"Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *"mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <
> rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for
> draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
>
>
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> thank you for taking interest in the proposal, much appreciated. Please
> find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
>
>
> This document seems to say =E2=80=9Cuse =E2=80=9CDo not Reply=E2=80=9D re=
ply mode, and even if you
> reply do not use the BFD Disc TLV, because it is not used.
>
> GIM>> To be precise it says "SHOULD use "Do not Reply" thus preserving
> compliance of implementations that do otherwise.
>
>
>
> Wouldn=E2=80=99t it be simpler to say =E2=80=9Cfollow RFC 8029, and the i=
ngress does not
> care about the BFD Disc TLV in the reply=E2=80=9D? This would not suddenl=
y make
> uncompliant existing implementations, potentially.
>
> GIM>> I agree that normative language on handling echo reply is bit
> restrictive. My goal is to have good discussion and see what others think=
.
>
>
>
> Also I wonder if this should be bfd-mpls instead of mpls-bfd, given where
> RFC 5884 was advanced.
>
> GIM>> Probably it should be the way you've suggested. Hope it is not a bi=
g
> problem for individual draft.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> =E2=80=94
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> this new document proposes clarification of two questions brought up in
> course of recent discussion of RFC 5884:
>
>    - use of Return mode values in bootstrapping BFD session echo request;
>    - inclusion of BFD Discriminator TLV in echo response to the
>    bootstrapping echo request.
>
> Your comments, questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM
> Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
> To: Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Yanhua Zhao <
> zhao.yanhua3@zte.com.cn>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify
> Revision:       00
> Title:          Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Bootstrap BFD over MPLS LSP
> Document date:  2017-10-18
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          4
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clar=
ify-00.txt
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify/
> Htmlized:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00
> Htmlized:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-cla=
rify-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>    This document, if approved, updates RFC 5884 by clarifying procedures
>    for using MPLS LSP ping to bootstrap Bidirectional Forwarding
>    Detection (BFD) over MPLS Label Switch Path.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--f4f5e80c7dec623f63056806ccf4
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Carlos,<div dir=3D"auto">if the group agrees that I&#3=
9;m overparanoid I&#39;ll accept that and forever hold my peace.</div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Regards, Greg=C2=A0</div></div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 7:00 PM =
Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpign=
ata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-1315898908906333467WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi, Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That, to me, reads like over-specifying. Are you awa=
re of any implementation attempting to do that?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There=E2=80=99s no text for that comparison =E2=80=
=93 why would an implementation do that?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Carlos.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From=
: </span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Greg Mirsky &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer=
">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;Reshad Rahman (rrahman)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrahma=
n@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">rrahman@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Carlos Pignataro &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">mpls@ietf.or=
g</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">rtg-bfd@=
ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-b=
fd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_-1315898908906333467__MailOriginalBody"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer">Hi Reshad, <u></u><u></u></a></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>your analysis of the text is absolutely correc=
t. My concern is the possible analysis of the Discriminator by ingress LER =
and it comparing to My Discriminator of the received BFD control packets.
 According to the RFC 5884 both must match but because LSP Echo reply does =
not provide sufficient information the most likely outcome will be - no mat=
ching BFD session found and thus the text fails. (Yes, it would be rather n=
aive implementation but ...). Thus
 I propose to add explicit statement for ingress LER not to use information=
 if received Discriminator TLV in Echo reply.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Reshad Rahman=
 (rrahman) &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span>rrahman@cisco.com</span><span></span></a><span>&=
gt;
 wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hi,</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u=
></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>In the BFD meeting yesterday there was discuss=
ion about lack of clarity on what the spec says wrt to the discriminator TL=
V being sent
 by the egress node in the echo reply and that this causes interop issues. =
>From RFC 5884:</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">The egress LSR MAY respon=
d with an LSP Ping Echo</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 reply messag=
e that carries the local discriminator
 assigned by it for</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the BFD sess=
ion.
</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>In the errata:</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA=
"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<pre><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#2c4353">Th=
e LSP Ping</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></s=
pan></pre>
<pre><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#2c4353">Ec=
ho reply message generated by the egress LSR MAY carry the local</span></sp=
an><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#2c4353">di=
scriminator assigned by it for the BFD session, as specified in</span></spa=
n><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#2c4353">se=
ction 6.1.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></s=
pan></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>So I think it=E2=80=99s clear that this cannot=
 be the discriminator of the ingress node. I agree that this information is=
 useless but still
 don=E2=80=99t see how it can cause any harm, and any implementation which =
interprets the discriminator in the echo reply differently is buggy IMHO.</=
span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Regards,</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Reshad (hat off).</span><span><span lang=3D"EN=
-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;colo=
r:black">Rtg-bfd &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt">rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org</span></span><span></span></=
a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&gt;
 on behalf of &quot;Reshad Rahman (rrahman)&quot; &lt;</span></span><a href=
=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">rrahman@cisco.com</span></spa=
n><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;col=
or:black">&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:49 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Greg Mirsky &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">gregimirsky@gmail.com</span></span><span></span></a>=
<span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&gt;,
 &quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)&quot; &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailt=
o:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=
=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">cpignata@cisco.com</span></span><span=
></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:blac=
k">&gt;</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span=
></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">mpls@ietf.org</span></=
span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&quot;
 &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">mpls@ietf.org</span></span><span=
></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&gt;,
 &quot;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></span=
><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&quot;
 &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></span><=
span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-b=
fd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hi,</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u=
></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>While I agree that the echo reply is not neede=
d to bootstrap BFD, and that the BFD Disc TLV is not needed in the reply, d=
oing this doesn=E2=80=99t
 break anything. So I don=E2=80=99t see the proposed changes as being neces=
sary.</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Does anyone remember why RFC5884 =C2=A0has the=
 echo reply, was it to potentially save an echo request from egress for bid=
irectional case?</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Also, if we do go ahead with the proposed chan=
ges in this draft, we=E2=80=99ll have to fix this
</span><a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5085" target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span>errata</span><span></span></a><span>.</span><s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Regards,</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Reshad (speaking as individual contributor).</=
span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;colo=
r:black">Rtg-bfd &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt">rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org</span></span><span></span></=
a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&gt;
 on behalf of Greg Mirsky &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:12.0pt">gregimirsky@gmail.com</span></span><span></span><=
/a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&gt;<b=
r>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, October 20, 2017 at 4:19 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)&quot; &lt;</span></span><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">cpignata@cisco.com</span></=
span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;=
color:black">&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt">mpls@ietf.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"=
 style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&quot;
 &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">mpls@=
ietf.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"=
font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&gt;,
 &quot;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">rt=
g-bfd@ietf.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&quot;
 &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">rtg-=
bfd@ietf.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-b=
fd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><a name=3D"m_-1315898908906333467_m_5680065987=
621540159__MailOriginalBody" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Hi Car=
los,
</span></a></span><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">thank you for taking inte=
rest in the proposal, much appreciated. Please find my notes in-line and ta=
gged GIM&gt;&gt;.<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Regards,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Greg<u></u><u></u></span>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5=
:54 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:cpi=
gnata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"E=
N-CA">cpignata@cisco.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"=
EN-CA">&gt;
 wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Greg,
<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">This document seems to sa=
y =E2=80=9Cuse =E2=80=9CDo not Reply=E2=80=9D reply mode, and even if you r=
eply do not use the BFD Disc TLV, because
 it is not used.<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">GIM&gt;&gt; To be precise=
 it says &quot;SHOULD use &quot;Do not Reply&quot; thus preserving complian=
ce of implementations that do otherwise.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></span><=
/p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Wouldn=E2=80=99t it be si=
mpler to say =E2=80=9Cfollow RFC 8029, and the ingress does not care about =
the BFD Disc TLV in the reply=E2=80=9D?
 This would not suddenly make uncompliant existing implementations, potenti=
ally.<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">GIM&gt;&gt; I agree that =
normative language on handling echo reply is bit restrictive. My goal is to=
 have good discussion
 and see what others think.<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Also I wonder if this sho=
uld be bfd-mpls instead of mpls-bfd, given where RFC 5884 was advanced.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">GIM&gt;&gt; Probably it s=
hould be the way you&#39;ve suggested. Hope it is not a big problem for ind=
ividual draft.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"color:black">=E2=
=80=94<br>
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0</span></span><span></span><a href=3D"mailto:carlos@=
cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=
carlos@cisco.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"color:black"><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more photosynthesis.&quot;</i></span></span><span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">On Oct 18, 2017, at 8:50 =
AM, Greg Mirsky &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">gregimirsky=
@gmail.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&gt;
 wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Dear All,
<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">this new document propose=
s clarification of two questions brought up in course of recent discussion =
of RFC 5884:<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">use of Return mode values in bootstrapping BFD s=
ession echo request;<u></u><u></u></span></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal=
">
<span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">inclusion of BFD Discriminator TLV in echo respo=
nse to the bootstrapping echo request.<u></u><u></u></span></span></li></ul=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Your comments, questions =
are always welcome and greatly appreciated.<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Regards,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Greg<u></u><u></u></span>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><span lang=3D"E=
N-CA">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">internet-drafts@i=
etf.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&gt;<br>
Date: Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM<br>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clari=
fy-00.txt<br>
To: Gregory Mirsky &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">gregimir=
sky@gmail.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&gt;=
,
 Yanhua Zhao &lt;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:zhao.yanhua3@zte.com.cn" t=
arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">zhao.yanhua3=
@zte.com.cn</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&gt;<b=
r>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstr=
ap-clarify<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Clarifying Use of LSP Ping to Boot=
strap BFD over MPLS LSP<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-10-18<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 4<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </span></span><a href=3D"http=
s://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00=
.txt" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">https=
://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.=
txt</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</span></span><a href=3D"https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify/" target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify/</span></span><span></=
span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</span></span><a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00" target=3D"_blank"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00</span></span><span></span></a><s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</span></span><a href=3D"https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00</span></spa=
n><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><br>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document, if approved, updates RFC 5884 by clarifying pro=
cedures<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for using MPLS LSP ping to bootstrap Bidirectional Forwarding<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Detection (BFD) over MPLS Label Switch Path.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at </span></span><a href=
=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-CA">tools.ietf.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-CA">.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">_________________________=
______________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">mpls@ietf.org</span></span><span></span=
></a><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><br>
</span></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</span></span><span></span></a><span><span lang=3D=
"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--f4f5e80c7dec623f63056806ccf4--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-bootstrap-clarify-00.txt
Thread-Index: AQHTSA/EphK3ALfV0kCp1VTG3OCNZaLtCMyAgAAoWACA7TbbgIADQ5qA///6OAD//+oQgA==
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 19:00:13 +0000
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Subject: IETF 101 - draft minutes
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Working Group,

The draft minutes have been uploaded to the data tracker.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-101-bfd/

Please review them.  In particular, the minutes from the second half of the
meeting may be incomplete since we seem to have lost audio recording around
then.

(This chair really should know better than to trust infrastructure and to
arrange for backup!)

-- Jeff


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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Subject: WGLC BFD Authentication Drafts
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Working Group,

The authors of the following Working Group drafts have requested 
Working Group Last Call on the following documents:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-01
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-04
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01

Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will conclude for the bundle
simultaneously.

Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you know about any IPR
for your documents.  Progression of the document will not be done without
that statement.

Last call will complete on April 20.

-- Jeff


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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication@ietf.org, rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Comments on Optimizing BFD Authentication
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Authors,

Several comments on the draft in no particular order:

---

The document header says "BFD Authentication".  You should include the word
"optimizing" somewhere in that. :-)

---

The NULL Auth TLV has a recommended Authentication Type of 0.  While this
seems like a good idea, it's problematic in a few regards.

RFC 5880 defines the bfd.AuthType variable.  This is basically set using the
received AuthType in the packet when authentication is received.  E.g.:

:    Authentication Present (A)
: 
:       Set to 1 if authentication is in use on this session (bfd.AuthType
:       is nonzero), or 0 if not.

Further, section 6.8.6 contains the following:

:       If the A bit is set and no authentication is in use (bfd.AuthType
:       is zero), the packet MUST be discarded.

My recommendation is to remove the AuthType of 0 and replace it with a TBD
to be assigned by IANA.  This impacts the IANA Considerations section.

---

Section 3 notes a "Reserved" field.  It notes "multiple keys". This seems to
be missing text describing how it's intended to be used.

---


There are also a few other issues that require attention, which are largely
operational considerations:

How do you go about enabling the optimized procedures?  Is it expected to be
via configuration?

What are the yang model considerations?  (See prior point.)

-- Jeff


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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers@ietf.org, rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Comments on secure sequence number draft
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Authors,

A few comments on your draft in no particular order:

Operational Considerations:
- How do you go about enabling this feature?
  + It's independent of, but recommended for, optimizing BFD authentication.
- What are the yang considerations?  
  + Similar point - changes to the yang model for optimizing authentication
    likely need this as a separate knob.

- The Security Considerations section is empty.  That needs to be fixed.

-- Jeff


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Subject: Re: WGLC BFD Authentication Drafts
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Chairs,

We the authors acknowledge an IPRs related to these drafts. It is titled =
=E2=80=9CIntegrity check optimization systems and methods in live =
connectivity frames=E2=80=9D, patent number 9,537,846.=20

We will be adding an IPR disclosure shortly.=20

> On Mar 28, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> The authors of the following Working Group drafts have requested=20
> Working Group Last Call on the following documents:
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-01
> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-04
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01
>=20
> Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will conclude for the bundle
> simultaneously.
>=20
> Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you know about =
any IPR
> for your documents.  Progression of the document will not be done =
without
> that statement.
>=20
> Last call will complete on April 20.
>=20
> -- Jeff
>=20

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com


--Apple-Mail=_BB9779C3-B6A4-4D83-8BCC-F34357FB8DF9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Chairs,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We =
the authors acknowledge an IPRs related to these drafts. It is titled =
=E2=80=9CIntegrity check optimization systems and methods in live =
connectivity frames=E2=80=9D, patent number&nbsp;<b style=3D"font-family: =
Times; font-size: medium; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; =
text-align: -webkit-right; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, =
255);" class=3D"">9,537,846.&nbsp;</b></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-right; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-right; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D"">We will be adding an IPR disclosure shortly.&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Mar 28, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" class=3D"">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Working Group,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The authors of =
the following Working Group drafts have requested <br class=3D"">Working =
Group Last Call on the following documents:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers=
-01" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numb=
ers-01</a><br =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentic=
ation-04<br =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will =
conclude for the bundle<br class=3D"">simultaneously.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you =
know about any IPR<br class=3D"">for your documents. &nbsp;Progression =
of the document will not be done without<br class=3D"">that =
statement.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Last call will complete on April =
20.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-- Jeff<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Mahesh Jethanandani</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a></div>

</div>
<br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_BB9779C3-B6A4-4D83-8BCC-F34357FB8DF9--


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Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 13:41:51 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: WGLC BFD Authentication Drafts
Message-ID: <20180328174151.GH3126@pfrc.org>
References: <20180328163856.GB3126@pfrc.org> <7A3DD8AA-DD05-46B1-A4D3-AD8B3E17FE5C@gmail.com>
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Mahesh,

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 10:33:23AM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:
> Chairs,
> 
> We the authors acknowledge an IPRs related to these drafts. It is titled “Integrity check optimization systems and methods in live connectivity frames”, patent number 9,537,846. 
> 
> We will be adding an IPR disclosure shortly. 

Thanks for your prompt disclosure at WGLC.  A reminder of the location to do
this disclosure for you or appropriate lawyers:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/new-specific/

And also a reminder that you should have filed that sooner than later. :-)

Ideally, please update this ASAP so that the Working Group participants may
take the disclosure, and the stated licensing, into consideration as part of
WGLC comments.

The remaining authors will need to acknowledge other IPR or that only this
IPR is what they are aware of.

-- Jeff

P.S. I received bounces on Manav and Alan's addresses.  Please update them
and also make sure they're following the WGLC.

> 
> > On Mar 28, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Working Group,
> > 
> > The authors of the following Working Group drafts have requested 
> > Working Group Last Call on the following documents:
> > 
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-01
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-04
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01
> > 
> > Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will conclude for the bundle
> > simultaneously.
> > 
> > Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you know about any IPR
> > for your documents.  Progression of the document will not be done without
> > that statement.
> > 
> > Last call will complete on April 20.
> > 
> > -- Jeff
> > 
> 
> Mahesh Jethanandani
> mjethanandani@gmail.com
> 


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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Reminder on IETF IPR policies
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Working Group,

https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp79

A reminder that if you're aware of IPR against IETF work, disclose it.  
Don't make us find this out at WGLC.

-- Jeff


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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Tuning BFD session times
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Working Group,

We had very active discussion (yay!) at the microphone as part of Mahesh's
presentation on BFD Performance Measurement.
(draft-am-bfd-performance)

I wanted to start this thread to discuss the greater underlying issues this
discussion raised.  In particular, active tuning of BFD session parameters.
Please note that opinions I state here are as an individual contributor.

BFD clients typically want the fastest, most stable detection interval that
is appropriate to their application.  That stability component is very
important since too aggressive of timers can result in unnecessary BFD
session instability which will impact the subscribing application.  Such
stability is a function of many things, scale of the system running BFD
being a major one.

In my opinion, applications should generally choose a detection interval
that is reasoanble for their application rather than try to dynamically
discover the lowest possible stable detection interval.  This is because a
number of unstable factors, such as CPU load, contention with other network
traffic and other things that are outside the general control of many
sytems may impact such scale.

That said, here's a few thoughts on active feedback mechanisms:
1. BFD is asymmetric.  This means a receiving BFD implementation must provide
   feedback to a sending implementation in order for it to understand
   perceived reliability.
2. Measurement infrastructure may negatively impact session scale.  Greg, I
   believe, made this point when discussing host processing issues vs. BFD
   ingress/egress.
3. Detection interval calculations really need to take into account things
   that are greater than simple packet transmission times.  As an example,
   if your measurement is always taken during low system CPU or network
   activity, how high is your confidence about the interval?  What about
   scaling vs. number of total BFD sessions?

I have no strong conclusions here, just some cautionary thoughts.

What are yours?

-- Jeff


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Subject: Re: WGLC BFD Authentication Drafts
From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20180328163856.GB3126@pfrc.org>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:21:35 -0700
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Adding Alan and Manav to the thread, so they can follow the WGLC, and =
the action thereof. Will update their e-mail addresses as we address the =
comments.

Thanks.

> On Mar 28, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> The authors of the following Working Group drafts have requested=20
> Working Group Last Call on the following documents:
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-01
> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-04
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01
>=20
> Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will conclude for the bundle
> simultaneously.
>=20
> Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you know about =
any IPR
> for your documents.  Progression of the document will not be done =
without
> that statement.
>=20
> Last call will complete on April 20.
>=20
> -- Jeff
>=20

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com


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From: Manav Bhatia <manavbhatia@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 06:11:25 +0530
Message-ID: <CAG1kdohy5zJBgkG1=1_QWdC9ppU2S+-HCo8T1KSzL8wqxze4mw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: WGLC BFD Authentication Drafts
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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No IPR from my side.

Cheers, Manav

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 10:08 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

> Working Group,
>
> The authors of the following Working Group drafts have requested
> Working Group Last Call on the following documents:
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-01
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-04
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01
>
> Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will conclude for the bundle
> simultaneously.
>
> Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you know about any
> IPR
> for your documents.  Progression of the document will not be done without
> that statement.
>
> Last call will complete on April 20.
>
> -- Jeff
>
>

--001a1140a99e3955b105688262fd
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">No IPR from my side.<div><br></div><div>Cheers, Manav</div=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Ma=
r 28, 2018 at 10:08 PM, Jeffrey Haas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jhaas@pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Working Group,<br>
<br>
The authors of the following Working Group drafts have requested<br>
Working Group Last Call on the following documents:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbe=
rs-01" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wb=
r>draft-ietf-bfd-secure-<wbr>sequence-numbers-01</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentica=
tion-04" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<=
wbr>draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-<wbr>authentication-04</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01" rel=3D"=
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-ietf-b=
fd-stability-01</a><br>
<br>
Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will conclude for the bundle<br>
simultaneously.<br>
<br>
Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you know about any IP=
R<br>
for your documents.=C2=A0 Progression of the document will not be done with=
out<br>
that statement.<br>
<br>
Last call will complete on April 20.<br>
<br>
-- Jeff<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1140a99e3955b105688262fd--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 08:47:06 +0300
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Subject: Re: IETF 101 - draft minutes
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--0000000000006bd1bc056886a705
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Kudos to the notetaker who braved the technical obstacles and masterfully
captured all the details of the discussions that at times we quite fast
paced.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 6:47 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

> Working Group,
>
> The draft minutes have been uploaded to the data tracker.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-101-bfd/
>
> Please review them.  In particular, the minutes from the second half of the
> meeting may be incomplete since we seem to have lost audio recording around
> then.
>
> (This chair really should know better than to trust infrastructure and to
> arrange for backup!)
>
> -- Jeff
>
>

--0000000000006bd1bc056886a705
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Kudos to the notetaker who braved the technical obstacles =
and masterfully captured all the details of the discussions that at times w=
e quite fast paced.<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 28, 20=
18 at 6:47 PM, Jeffrey Haas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@p=
frc.org" target=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">Working Group,<br>
<br>
The draft minutes have been uploaded to the data tracker.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-101-bfd/" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/minutes-101-b=
fd/</a><br>
<br>
Please review them.=C2=A0 In particular, the minutes from the second half o=
f the<br>
meeting may be incomplete since we seem to have lost audio recording around=
<br>
then.<br>
<br>
(This chair really should know better than to trust infrastructure and to<b=
r>
arrange for backup!)<br>
<br>
-- Jeff<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--0000000000006bd1bc056886a705--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 14:09:32 +0300
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Subject: Re: WGLC BFD Authentication Drafts
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
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Dear WG Chairs, et. al,
I cannot support WG LC for draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication as my
comments at BFD WG meeting dating back to IETF-98
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/98/materials/minutes-98-bfd-00> still
not have been addressed nor even there was an attempt to address. As I've
asked to clarify impact of the proposed mechanism, particularly periodic
authentication, on the BFD State Machine, I'd point that the proposed
mechanism directly affects BFD security as discussed in RFC 5880 and the
section Security Considerations in the document, in my view, does not
adequately reflects that and doesn't explain how the security of the BFD
session maintained when the periodic authentication is in use.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

> Working Group,
>
> The authors of the following Working Group drafts have requested
> Working Group Last Call on the following documents:
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-01
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-04
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01
>
> Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will conclude for the bundle
> simultaneously.
>
> Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you know about any
> IPR
> for your documents.  Progression of the document will not be done without
> that statement.
>
> Last call will complete on April 20.
>
> -- Jeff
>
>

--000000000000813a4f05688b28d8
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear WG Chairs, et. al,=C2=A0<div>I cannot support WG LC f=
or=C2=A0draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication as my comments at <a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/98/materials/minutes-98-bfd-00">BF=
D WG meeting dating back to IETF-98</a>=C2=A0still not have been addressed =
nor even there was an attempt to address. As I&#39;ve asked to clarify impa=
ct of the proposed mechanism, particularly periodic authentication, on the =
BFD State Machine, I&#39;d point that the proposed mechanism directly affec=
ts BFD security as discussed in RFC 5880 and the section Security Considera=
tions in the document, in my view, does not adequately reflects that and do=
esn&#39;t explain how the security of the BFD session maintained when the p=
eriodic authentication is in use.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><d=
iv>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
">On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Jeffrey Haas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Working Group,<br>
<br>
The authors of the following Working Group drafts have requested<br>
Working Group Last Call on the following documents:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbe=
rs-01" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wb=
r>draft-ietf-bfd-secure-<wbr>sequence-numbers-01</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentica=
tion-04" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<=
wbr>draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-<wbr>authentication-04</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01" rel=3D"=
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-ietf-b=
fd-stability-01</a><br>
<br>
Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will conclude for the bundle<br>
simultaneously.<br>
<br>
Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you know about any IP=
R<br>
for your documents.=C2=A0 Progression of the document will not be done with=
out<br>
that statement.<br>
<br>
Last call will complete on April 20.<br>
<br>
-- Jeff<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--000000000000813a4f05688b28d8--


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Subject: Re: WGLC BFD Authentication Drafts
From: Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com>
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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 08:02:18 -0400
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  I have no IPR on this.

> On Mar 28, 2018, at 7:21 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani =
<mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Adding Alan and Manav to the thread, so they can follow the WGLC, and =
the action thereof. Will update their e-mail addresses as we address the =
comments.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>>=20
>> Working Group,
>>=20
>> The authors of the following Working Group drafts have requested=20
>> Working Group Last Call on the following documents:
>>=20
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-01
>> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-04
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-stability-01
>>=20
>> Given the overlap of functionality, WGLC will conclude for the bundle
>> simultaneously.
>>=20
>> Authors, please positively acknowledge whether or not you know about =
any IPR
>> for your documents.  Progression of the document will not be done =
without
>> that statement.
>>=20
>> Last call will complete on April 20.
>>=20
>> -- Jeff
>>=20
>=20
> Mahesh Jethanandani
> mjethanandani@gmail.com
>=20

