From nobody Mon Aug 3 12:09:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31E03A1066; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 12:08:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3sX8loWzSazt; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 12:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F493A1062; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 12:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1D70F1E2F9; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 15:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 15:20:16 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: iesg@ietf.org, rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan ready to go Message-ID: <20200803192016.GA27050@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 19:08:59 -0000 With the update of the shepherd's writeup, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan is ready to go through next round of IESG review. Note that there's a pending DISCUSS from Benjamin Kaduk. However, all issues in that DISCUSS should have been dealt with in the recent series of edits. -- Jeff (as document shepherd) ----- Forwarded message from IETF Secretariat ----- Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 12:03:19 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat To: jhaas@pfrc.org Subject: Personal ID list of jhaas@pfrc.org notification: Changes to draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan Hello, This is a notification from the Personal ID list of jhaas@pfrc.org. Document: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan/ Change by Jeffrey Haas on 2020-08-03 12:03 PDT: : (1) What type of RFC is being requested (BCP, Proposed Standard, Internet : Standard, Informational, Experimental, or Historic)? Why is this the proper : type of RFC? Is this type of RFC indicated in the title page header? Informational. : (2) The IESG approval announcement includes a Document Announcement Write-Up. : Please provide such a Document Announcement Write-Up. Recent examples can be : found in the "Action" announcements for approved documents. The approval : announcement contains the following sections: : : Technical Summary: This document describes the use of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD - RFC 5880) protocol in Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network (VXLAN) overlay networks. : Working Group Summary: This document has received community review with opportunities to comment in relevant working groups such as BFD, NVO3, and BESS. It is of interest to parties that operate VXLAN networks and wish to provide continuity checks for tunnels interconnecting virtual machines in such networks. : Was there anything in WG process that is worth noting? For example, was there : controversy about particular points or were there decisions where the consensus : was particularly rough? In spite of significant discussion prior to submitting this document to the IESG, there was much commentary as part of IESG review. A substantial amount of review commentary was generated by the original text related to what VNI is being tested using this protocol extension. The majority of this commentary was the result of the security considerations related to how a tenant VNI may benefit from this feature. In particular, how does the protocol attempt to avoid hijacking tenant MAC addresses and necessary IP addressing of the encapsulated BFD packets. As part of addressing this issue, the Working Group decided to reduce the general scope of the feature in this document to validating reachability to the management VNI. This removed the related security considerations for the more general mechanism in the proposal. It should be noted that the encapsulation format remains flexible enough that testing non-management VNIs remains feasible, but is now out of scope for this document. While VXLAN implementations appear to regularly have forms of "management VNIs", this concept does not appear in the VXLAN architecture documents. The consensus in this document is that VNI number 1 would be the default VNI for the management VNI number. Since the management VNI did not have a well known Destination MAC address, the proposal in this document was that one would be allocated from the IANA pool for unicast MAC addresses for this purpose. The internal Destination IP address, using the ::ffff:127.0.0.0/104 network in a fashion similar to the MPLS LSP Ping feature required extensive discussion with the IESG. While this usage is well understood in MPLS OAM functionality, it was controversial with one of the reivewing Area Directors. However, that AD's DISCUSS was removed after long discussion. The TTL/Hop Limit value and the application of GTSM (RFC 5082) as per BFD core procedural documents was discussed and the document moved to use that procedure even in encapsulated traffic. A final note is that issue tracking became challenging during this review and that the IETF would be well served by re-tooling IESG commentary to include an issue tracker as part of the core infrastructure. : Document Quality: : : Are there existing implementations of the protocol? Have a significant number : of vendors indicated their plan to implement the specification? Are there any : reviewers that merit special mention as having done a thorough review, e.g., : one that resulted in important changes or a conclusion that the document had no : substantive issues? If there was a MIB Doctor, Media Type or other expert : review, what was its course (briefly)? In the case of a Media Type review, on : what date was the request posted? At the time of working group last call, there are two known implementations of this mechanism. No special reviewers were required for this document. : Personnel: : : Who is the Document Shepherd? Who is the Responsible Area Director? Document Shepherd: Jeffrey Haas, BFD co-chair. Responsible Area Director: Martin Vigoreux. : (3) Briefly describe the review of this document that was performed by the : Document Shepherd. If this version of the document is not ready for : publication, please explain why the document is being forwarded to the IESG. This document has been through working group review and has received and incorporated commentary. Additionally, feedback was solicited within NVO3 and BESS. BESS feedback was suggested after WGLC had concluded at the recommendation of one of the NVO3 reviewers, Anoop Ghanwani, since BESS provides protocol extensions for provisioning networks related to this mechanism. : (4) Does the document Shepherd have any concerns about the depth or breadth of : the reviews that have been performed? No. : (5) Do portions of the document need review from a particular or from broader : perspective, e.g., security, operational complexity, AAA, DNS, DHCP, XML, or : internationalization? If so, describe the review that took place. The Destination MAC address assignment still requires review from the IANA Designated Experts. Multiple attempts to reach them were made during document review. : (6) Describe any specific concerns or issues that the Document Shepherd has : with this document that the Responsible Area Director and/or the IESG should be : aware of? For example, perhaps he or she is uncomfortable with certain parts of : the document, or has concerns whether there really is a need for it. In any : event, if the WG has discussed those issues and has indicated that it still : wishes to advance the document, detail those concerns here. No concerns. : (7) Has each author confirmed that any and all appropriate IPR disclosures : required for full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79 have : already been filed. If not, explain why? Yes. : (8) Has an IPR disclosure been filed that references this document? If so, : summarize any WG discussion and conclusion regarding the IPR disclosures. There exists an IPR disclosure, #3193, from Cisco. This IPR was disclosed prior to last call and is not seen as an obstacle to document publication. : (9) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it represent the : strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others being silent, or does the : WG as a whole understand and agree with it? The feedback on the document was solid. Core participants of the working group provided feedback on this document. Additionally, it received review from parties that normally do not provide last call feedback. : (10) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme discontent? : If so, please summarise the areas of conflict in separate email messages to the : Responsible Area Director. (It should be in a separate email because this : questionnaire is publicly available.) No. : (11) Identify any ID nits the Document Shepherd has found in this document. : (See http://www.ietf.org/tools/idnits/ and the Internet-Drafts Checklist). : Boilerplate checks are not enough; this check needs to be thorough. No nits. : (12) Describe how the document meets any required formal review criteria, such : as the MIB Doctor, media type, and URI type reviews. The IANA considerations requesting a unicast MAC will require Expert Review as part of IANA assignment. : (13) Have all references within this document been identified as either : normative or informative? Yes. : (14) Are there normative references to documents that are not ready for : advancement or are otherwise in an unclear state? If such normative references : exist, what is the plan for their completion? No. : (15) Are there downward normative references references (see RFC 3967)? If so, : list these downward references to support the Area Director in the Last Call : procedure. No. Previously, when the document was targeted for Proposed Standard, there was an issue with the core VXLAN documents having Informational status. However, it was the consensus of the Working Group to change the status of this proposal to match it as Informational. : (16) Will publication of this document change the status of any existing RFCs? : Are those RFCs listed on the title page header, listed in the abstract, and : discussed in the introduction? If the RFCs are not listed in the Abstract and : Introduction, explain why, and point to the part of the document where the : relationship of this document to the other RFCs is discussed. If this : information is not in the document, explain why the WG considers it : unnecessary. No. : (17) Describe the Document Shepherd's review of the IANA considerations : section, especially with regard to its consistency with the body of the : document. Confirm that all protocol extensions that the document makes are : associated with the appropriate reservations in IANA registries. Confirm that : any referenced IANA registries have been clearly identified. Confirm that newly : created IANA registries include a detailed specification of the initial : contents for the registry, that allocations procedures for future registrations : are defined, and a reasonable name for the new registry has been suggested (see : RFC 5226). The document has one request to IANA for assignment of a unicast MAC address. This request requires review from a Designated Expert. : (18) List any new IANA registries that require Expert Review for future : allocations. Provide any public guidance that the IESG would find useful in : selecting the IANA Experts for these new registries. None. : (19) Describe reviews and automated checks performed by the Document Shepherd : to validate sections of the document written in a formal language, such as XML : code, BNF rules, MIB definitions, etc. N/A -- Jeff Haas Best regards, The Datatracker draft tracking service (for the IETF Secretariat) ----- End forwarded message ----- From nobody Mon Aug 3 16:38:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B023A116F for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Subject: Milestones changed for bfd WG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <159649789168.25340.13800667047237622378@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 16:38:11 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 23:38:12 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit BFD for VxLAN to the IESG to be considered as a Proposed Standard", resolved as "Done". URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bfd/about/ From nobody Tue Aug 4 06:00:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84CE3A0B1A; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 06:00:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , Subject: The BFD WG has placed draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <159654601282.14405.4574172449901153003@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 06:00:12 -0700 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 13:00:13 -0000 The BFD WG has placed draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Jeffrey Haas) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ From nobody Tue Aug 4 06:04:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D9D3A0B1C for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 06:04:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dnA1E7hF-0sw for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 06:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3BE3A0B2F for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 06:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 911F01E2F9; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 09:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 09:15:49 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) Message-ID: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 13:04:28 -0000 Working Group, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. This is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by the BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond to the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband Forum (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document lacks some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD implementations. This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of this mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Aug 4 06:10:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40EC3A0B34 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 06:10:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Y2zrnJtdr36 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 06:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A5F63A0B2F for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 06:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id EA70C1E2F9; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 09:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 09:21:22 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) Message-ID: <20200804132122.GC31729@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 13:10:01 -0000 Working Group, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/ With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is past due for Working Group Last Call. The primary holdup on the document had been last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its impact on the BFD Yang model. That work had completed some time ago. (The Yang model, however, is still lingering in MISREF state.) This begins a last call period ending on 16 August. Please send your comments to the mailing list whether you think this work is ready to advance to the IESG or not. -- Jeff & Reshad From nobody Tue Aug 4 07:09:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0C73A0BAC for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:09:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=TP50aWRD; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=QpIbGnjj Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iirDyxOzvAu4 for ; 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Tue, 04 Aug 2020 15:39:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200804132122.GC31729@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20200804132122.GC31729@pfrc.org> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 15:38:53 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000026be7b05ac14ec1d" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 22:39:09 -0000 --00000000000026be7b05ac14ec1d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Authors, et al., thank you for this well-written document. The mechanism described in the draft is, in my opinion, useful and will save considerable efforts of the operator. I have several questions and comments listed below: - Would the introduction of Unsolicited mode make this draft updating RFC 5881? - I didn't find any new values of BFD parameters that distinguish an unsolicited BFD session from the "classic single-hop" session. Do you think such a distinction could be useful to an operator? - In Section 2 stated On the passive side, the "unsolicited BFD" SHOULD be configured explicitly on an interface. Does that imply that it MAY be configured node-wide? I think it would be helpful to explicitly list the alternative option. - The fourth paragraph in Section 2 explains the handling of the first BFD control packet with Your Discriminator == 0, i.e., "it does not find an existing session with the same source address". What happens if the matching BFD session has been found? - A BFD session then created "based on the source address and destination address". Does that mean that there will be only one session with the same source address despite different destination addresses listed? If that is the case, could the BFD session be associated only with the source IP address of the received BFD control packet? - Between creating the BFD session (above) and It would then start sending the BFD Control packets and perform necessary procedure for bringing up, maintaining and tearing down the BFD session. the local BFD system assigns My Discriminator to the session. Though it is standard (RFC 5880) step, it might be useful to mention it. - Does "an established BFD session goes down" mean the state is Down and only Down or it also includes AdminDown state? - Furter stated the passive side would stop sending BFD Control packets and delete the BFD session created until the BFD Control packets is initiated by the active side again. Probably some normative language be helpful to replace "would". And is the stop applied immediately or after some grace period? The same question about the deletion of BFD parameters and the FSM (probably this is left to the implementation). - I'd admit got confused by the last paragraph in Section 2: The "Passive role" may change to the "Active role" when a local client registers for the same BFD session ... Is it normative MAY? Does that mean that the unsolicited BFD cannot be in passive role if it has a local client registered? But what I wonder is how these transitions affect the operation. What happens if both BFD systems are passive after changes in the clients registered? Or both are active? - Section 5.1 appears to only RECOMMEND setting TTL to 255 while RFC 5881 says that TTL MUST be set to 255. What could be the case for not setting TTL to 255? - Nits: - s/"Discriminator"/"My Discriminator" - s/does not initiates/does not initiate/ - s/"remote-discriminator"/"Your Discriminator"/ Regards, Greg On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:10 AM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Working Group, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/ > > With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is past due > for Working Group Last Call. The primary holdup on the document had been > last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its impact on > the > BFD Yang model. That work had completed some time ago. (The Yang model, > however, is still lingering in MISREF state.) > > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August. > > Please send your comments to the mailing list whether you think this work > is > ready to advance to the IESG or not. > > -- Jeff & Reshad > > --00000000000026be7b05ac14ec1d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors, et al.,
thank you for this well-written = document. The mechanism described in the draft is, in my opinion, useful an= d will save considerable efforts of the operator. I have several questions = and comments listed below:
  • Would the introduction of Unso= licited mode make this draft updating RFC 5881?
  • I didn't find a= ny new values of BFD parameters that distinguish an unsolicited BFD session= from=C2=A0the "classic single-hop" session. Do you think such a = distinction could be useful to an operator?
  • In Section 2 stated
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0On the passive side, the "unsolicited BFD" SHOULD be= configured
=C2=A0 =C2=A0explicitly on an interface.
Doe= s that imply that it MAY be configured node-wide? I think it would be helpf= ul to explicitly list the alternative=C2=A0option.
    The fourth paragraph in Section 2 explains the handling of the first BFD = control packet with Your Discriminator =3D=3D 0, i.e., "it does not fi= nd an existing session with the same source address". What happens if = the matching BFD session has been found?
  • A BFD session then created= "based on the source address and destination address". Does that= mean that there will be only one session with the same source address desp= ite different destination addresses listed? If that is the case, could the = BFD session be associated only with the source IP address of the received B= FD control packet?
  • Between creating the BFD session (above) and
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0It would
=C2=A0 =C2=A0then start sending the BFD Control pa= ckets and perform necessary
=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedure for bringing up, main= taining and tearing down the BFD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session.
t= he local BFD system assigns My Discriminator to the session. Though it is s= tandard (RFC 5880) step, it might be useful to mention it.
  • Does "an established BFD session goes down" mean the st= ate is Down and only Down or it also includes AdminDown state?
  • Furt= er=C2=A0stated
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0passive side would stop = sending BFD Control packets and delete the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0BFD session crea= ted until the BFD Control packets is initiated by the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0activ= e side again.
Probably some normative language be helpful t= o replace "would". And is the stop applied immediately or after s= ome grace period? The same question about the deletion of BFD parameters an= d the FSM (probably this is left to the implementation).
=
  • I'd admit got confused by the last paragraph in Section 2:
    • =
= =C2=A0 The "Passive role" may change to the "Active role&quo= t; when a local
=C2=A0 =C2=A0client registers for the same BFD session .= ..
Is it normative MAY? Does that mean that the unsolicited= BFD cannot be in passive role if it has a local client registered? But wha= t I wonder is how these transitions affect the operation. What happens if b= oth BFD systems are passive after changes in the clients registered? Or bot= h are active?
  • Section 5.1 appears to only RECOMME= ND setting TTL to 255 while RFC 5881 says that TTL MUST be set to 255. What= could be the case for not setting TTL to 255?
  • Nits:
    • s/= "Discriminator"/"My Discriminator"
    • s/does not i= nitiates/does not initiate/
    • s/"remote-discriminator"/&quo= t;Your Discriminator"/
Regards,
Greg

On T= ue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:10 AM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
Working Group,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i= etf-bfd-unsolicited/

With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is past due=
for Working Group Last Call.=C2=A0 The primary holdup on the document had b= een
last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its impact on th= e
BFD Yang model.=C2=A0 That work had completed some time ago.=C2=A0 (The Yan= g model,
however, is still lingering in MISREF state.)

This begins a last call period ending on 16 August.

Please send your comments to the mailing list whether you think this work i= s
ready to advance to the IESG or not.

-- Jeff & Reshad

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boundary="00000000000078020f05ac187295" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 02:51:27 -0000 --00000000000078020f05ac187295 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Authors, thank you for the well-written document. I have several questions and comments that are listed below: - An Introduction, states that it is not clear whether the devices using echo function need to support the full BFD procotol, including maintaining the state machine of BFD session as described in [RFC5880] and [RFC5881]. I think that Section 6.8.9 in RFC 5880 explicitly states: BFD Echo packets MUST NOT be transmitted when bfd.SessionState is not Up. BFD Echo packets MUST NOT be transmitted unless the last BFD Control packet received from the remote system contains a nonzero value in Required Min Echo RX Interval. Could you point to a statement in RFC 5880 or RFC 5881 that updates the requirements above? - Based on my understanding of the BFD Echo function definition in RFC 5880, the use case described in section 6.2.2 TR-146 is not based on the standard use of the BFD Echo function. - Section 2 describes the behavior of a BFD system in the Unaffiliated Echo mode. Would there be a BFD session created? If yes, which BFD state variables must be set? - Regarding the encapsulation of the BFD Echo in unaffiliated mode section 2 states device will send the BFD echo packets with the IP address destined for itself Which address will be used in IPv4 and IPv6? Which address will be used as the source IP address? And as we are discussing the IP encapsulation, which value be set in the TTL/HL field? - in the second paragraph, Section 2 stated that the device that does not support BFD protocol immediately loops back the packet by normal IP forwarding, implementing quick link failure detection It appears that the quick link failure detection is on the side of the system that does not support the BFD protocol. Is that right? - Further, you describe that system A (Fig.1) "rapidly detect a connectivity loss to device B". How in the unaffiliated BFD Echo mode is controlled the rate of transition for the BFD Echo packets? RFC 5880 allows the remote system to use Required Min Echo RX Interval for that. Which mechanism would you recommend in the unaffiliated BFD Echo mode? - Additionally, how does system A detects a failure? RFC 5880 in Section 6.8.5 gives a hint: a sufficient number of Echo packets have not arrived as they should, the session has gone down but the mechanism to determine when an Echo packet should arrive and by that when it is lost, as I understand the text in the section, is outside the scope of RFC 5880. Do you have a recommendation on how system A determines that a packet is lost? - nits: s/BFD procotol/BFD protocol/3 s/capablity/capability/ Regards, Greg On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:04 AM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Working Group, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ > > At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. > This > is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. > > The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by the > BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond to > the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. > > It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband Forum > (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document > lacks > some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD > implementations. > This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of this > mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. > > This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: > - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. > - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. > > -- Jeff > > --00000000000078020f05ac187295 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors,
thank you for the well-written document.= I have several questions and comments that are listed below:
  • An Introduction, states that
    • =C2=A0 =C2=A0it is not clear whether t= he devices
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0using echo function need to support the full BFD= procotol, including
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0maintaining the state machine of BFD s= ession as described in
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5880] and [RFC5881].
    =
    I think that Section 6.8.9 in RFC 5880 explicitly=C2=A0states:
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0BFD Echo packets MUST NOT be transmitted when bfd.SessionSt= ate is not
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0Up.=C2=A0 BFD Echo packets MUST NOT be transmitt= ed unless the last BFD
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0Control packet received from the rem= ote system contains a nonzero
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0value in Required Min Echo RX= Interval.
    Could you point to a statement in RFC 5880 or RF= C 5881 that updates the requirements above?
    • = Based on my understanding of the BFD Echo function definition=C2=A0in RFC 5= 880, the use case described in section 6.2.2 TR-146 is not based on the sta= ndard use of the BFD Echo function.=C2=A0
    • Section 2 describes the b= ehavior=C2=A0of a BFD system in the Unaffiliated Echo mode. Would there be = a BFD session created? If yes, which BFD state variables must be set?
      • <= li>Regarding the encapsulation of the BFD Echo in unaffiliated mode section= 2 states
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0device will send the BFD echo pa= ckets with the IP
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0address destined for it= self
    Which address will be used in IPv4 and IPv6? Which a= ddress will be used as the source IP address? And as we are discussing the = IP encapsulation, which value be set in the TTL/HL field?
    • in the second paragraph, Section 2 stated that
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0the devi= ce that does not support
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0BFD protocol immediately loops bac= k the packet by normal IP
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0forwarding, implementing quick li= nk failure detection
    It appears that the quick link failure detection is= on the side of the system that does not support the BFD protocol. Is that = right?
    • Further, you describe that system A (Fig.1) = "rapidly detect a connectivity loss to device B". How in the unaf= filiated BFD Echo mode is controlled the rate of transition for the BFD Ech= o packets? RFC 5880 allows the remote system to use Required Min Echo RX In= terval for that. Which mechanism would you recommend in the unaffiliated BF= D Echo mode?
    • Additionally, how does system=C2=A0A detects=C2=A0a=C2= =A0failure? RFC 5880 in Section 6.8.5 gives=C2=A0a hint:
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0a suffi= cient number of Echo
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0packets have not arrived as they shoul= d, the session has gone down
    but the mechanism=C2=A0to determine when an= Echo packet should arrive and by that when it is lost, as I understand the= text in the section, is outside the scope of RFC 5880. Do you have a recom= mendation on how system A determines that a packet is lost?
  • nits:
    • s/BFD procotol/BFD protocol/3
    s/capablity/capability/

    Regards,
    Greg


    On T= ue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:04 AM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
    Working Group,

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra= ft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/

    At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented.=C2= =A0 This
    is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106.

    The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by the=
    BFD WG.=C2=A0 This begins the adoption call ending August 16.=C2=A0 Please = respond to
    the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption.

    It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband Forum<= br> (BBF) document TR-146.=C2=A0 As noted in the presentation, the BBF document= lacks
    some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD implementat= ions.
    This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of this mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used.

    This raises two points to consider as part of adoption:
    - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880.
    - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard.

    -- Jeff

    --00000000000078020f05ac187295-- From nobody Wed Aug 5 01:52:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C696F3A0FB3 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 01:51:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h67g1twFzhTW for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 01:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DAFE3A0FB2 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 01:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.5]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app12-12012 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2eec5f2a731ff0e-ac93e; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 16:51:43 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2eec5f2a731ff0e-ac93e X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc (unknown[10.2.53.197]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee35f2a731d63f-af908; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 16:51:41 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee35f2a731d63f-af908 From: "Weiqiang Cheng" To: "'Greg Mirsky'" , "'Jeffrey Haas'" Cc: "'rtg-bfd WG'" References: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 16:51:57 +0800 Message-ID: <002701d66b05$ad573370$08059a50$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01D66B48.BB7A7370" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdZq01T1UHpPUtKNRO+47tC50upH0gAMhUbA Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 08:51:59 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01D66B48.BB7A7370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, Many thanks for your insightful questions and comments. We've discussed them, please see inline our responses with . Best Regards, Weiqiang (on behalf of co-authors) =20 =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Greg Mirsky =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5 = 10:51 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Jeffrey Haas =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: rtg-bfd WG =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo = (ending 16 August, 2020) =20 Dear Authors, thank you for the well-written document. I have several questions and = comments that are listed below: =C2=B7 An Introduction, states that it is not clear whether the devices using echo function need to support the full BFD procotol, including maintaining the state machine of BFD session as described in [RFC5880] and [RFC5881]. I think that Section 6.8.9 in RFC 5880 explicitly states: BFD Echo packets MUST NOT be transmitted when bfd.SessionState is not Up. BFD Echo packets MUST NOT be transmitted unless the last BFD Control packet received from the remote system contains a nonzero value in Required Min Echo RX Interval. Could you point to a statement in RFC 5880 or RFC 5881 that updates = the requirements above? =20 This draft would update RFC 5880. We've pointed some = other text in RFC 5880 that needs to be updated, in a presentation given = at IETF 106. =20 =C2=B7 Based on my understanding of the BFD Echo function = definition in RFC 5880, the use case described in section 6.2.2 TR-146 = is not based on the standard use of the BFD Echo function.=20 With this draft, we attempt to standardize the use of = unaffiliated echo function, which has at least two use cases including = that one described in section 6.2.2 of TR-146. =20 =C2=B7 Section 2 describes the behavior of a BFD system in the = Unaffiliated Echo mode. Would there be a BFD session created? If yes, = which BFD state variables must be set? Yes, there would be a BFD session. We think at least the = following BFD state variables need be set: bfd.SessionState bfd.LocalDiscr bfd.RemoteDiscr bfd.DetectMult =20 =C2=B7 Regarding the encapsulation of the BFD Echo in = unaffiliated mode section 2 states device will send the BFD echo packets with the IP address destined for itself Which address will be used in IPv4 and IPv6? Which address will be used = as the source IP address? And as we are discussing the IP encapsulation, = which value be set in the TTL/HL field? =20 Both the IP DA and IP SA are configurable, usually the = local and the remote interface IP addresses of the detected link are = used. TTL/HL is set to 255. =20 =C2=B7 in the second paragraph, Section 2 stated that the device that does not support BFD protocol immediately loops back the packet by normal IP forwarding, implementing quick link failure detection It appears that the quick link failure detection is on the side of the = system that does not support the BFD protocol. Is that right? =20 No, it's on the side of the local system that supports = BFD protocol. Will reword to make it clear. =20 =C2=B7 Further, you describe that system A (Fig.1) "rapidly = detect a connectivity loss to device B". How in the unaffiliated BFD = Echo mode is controlled the rate of transition for the BFD Echo packets? = RFC 5880 allows the remote system to use Required Min Echo RX Interval = for that. Which mechanism would you recommend in the unaffiliated BFD = Echo mode? It's by configuration, i.e., we configure at the local system = the value of Required Min Echo RX Interval for the peer system. =20 =C2=B7 Additionally, how does system A detects a failure? RFC = 5880 in Section 6.8.5 gives a hint: a sufficient number of Echo packets have not arrived as they should, the session has gone down but the mechanism to determine when an Echo packet should arrive and by = that when it is lost, as I understand the text in the section, is = outside the scope of RFC 5880. Do you have a recommendation on how = system A determines that a packet is lost? The local system behaves the same as it's expecting to = receive BFD Control Packets. At the local system, both the Required Min = Echo RX Interval for the peer system and the desired Detection Time = multiplier for BFD Echo Packets are configured by the operator. =20 =C2=B7 nits: s/BFD procotol/BFD protocol/3 s/capablity/capability/ =20 Good catch, will fix them, thank you. Regards, Greg =20 =20 On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:04 AM Jeffrey Haas wrote: Working Group, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. = This is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by = the BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond = to the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband = Forum (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document = lacks some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD = implementations. This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of = this mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. -- Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01D66B48.BB7A7370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi = Greg,

    Many thanks = for your insightful questions and = comments.

    We've = discussed them, please see inline our responses with = <Weiqiang>.

    Best = Regards,

    Weiqiang (on = behalf of co-authors)

     

    =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 = Greg = Mirsky
    =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5 10:51
    =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Jeffrey = Haas
    =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: rtg-bfd WG
    =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: Adoption call for = draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, = 2020)

     

    Dear = Authors,

    thank you for the well-written document. I have several = questions and comments that are listed below:

    =C2=B7         = An Introduction, = states that

       it is not clear whether the devices
      =  using echo function need to support the full BFD procotol, = including
       maintaining the state machine of BFD session = as described in
       [RFC5880] and = [RFC5881].

    I think that Section 6.8.9 in RFC 5880 = explicitly states:

       BFD Echo packets MUST NOT be transmitted when = bfd.SessionState is not
       Up.  BFD Echo packets MUST = NOT be transmitted unless the last BFD
       Control packet = received from the remote system contains a nonzero
       value = in Required Min Echo RX Interval.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Could you = point to a statement in RFC 5880 or RFC 5881 that updates the = requirements above?

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<Weiqiang> This draft = would update RFC 5880. We've pointed some other text in RFC 5880 that = needs to be updated, in a presentation given at IETF = 106.

     

    =C2=B7         = Based on my = understanding of the BFD Echo function definition in RFC 5880, the = use case described in section 6.2.2 TR-146 is not based on the standard = use of the BFD Echo function. 

    <Weiqiang> With = this draft, we attempt to standardize the use of unaffiliated echo = function, which has at least two use cases including that one described = in section 6.2.2 of TR-146.

     

    =C2=B7         = Section 2 describes = the behavior of a BFD system in the Unaffiliated Echo mode. Would = there be a BFD session created? If yes, which BFD state variables must = be set?

    <Weiqiang> Yes, there would be a BFD session. We = think at least the following BFD state variables need be = set:

    bfd.SessionState

    bfd.LocalDiscr

    bfd.RemoteDiscr

    bfd.DetectMult

     

    =C2=B7         = Regarding the = encapsulation of the BFD Echo in unaffiliated mode section 2 = states

       device will send the BFD echo packets with the = IP

      =  address destined for itself

    Which address will be used in IPv4 = and IPv6? Which address will be used as the source IP address? And as we = are discussing the IP encapsulation, which value be set in the TTL/HL = field?

     

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <Weiqiang> Both the IP DA = and IP SA are configurable, usually the local and the remote interface = IP addresses of the detected link are used. TTL/HL is set to = 255.

     

    =C2=B7         = in the second = paragraph, Section 2 stated that

       the device that does = not support
       BFD protocol immediately loops back the = packet by normal IP
       forwarding, implementing quick link = failure detection
    It appears that the quick link failure detection is = on the side of the system that does not support the BFD protocol. Is = that right?

     

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <Weiqiang> No, it's on the = side of the local system that supports BFD protocol. Will reword to make = it clear.

     

    =C2=B7         = Further, you describe = that system A (Fig.1) "rapidly detect a connectivity loss to device = B". How in the unaffiliated BFD Echo mode is controlled the rate of = transition for the BFD Echo packets? RFC 5880 allows the remote system = to use Required Min Echo RX Interval for that. Which mechanism would you = recommend in the unaffiliated BFD Echo mode?

    <Weiqiang> It's by = configuration, i.e., we configure at the local system the value = of Required Min Echo RX Interval for the peer = system.

     

    =C2=B7         = Additionally, how does = system A detects a failure? RFC 5880 in Section 6.8.5 = gives a hint:

       a sufficient number of Echo
      =  packets have not arrived as they should, the session has gone = down
    but the mechanism to determine when an Echo packet should = arrive and by that when it is lost, as I understand the text in the = section, is outside the scope of RFC 5880. Do you have a recommendation = on how system A determines that a packet is = lost?

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <Weiqiang> The local system = behaves the same as it's expecting to receive BFD Control Packets. At = the local system, both the Required Min Echo RX Interval for the = peer system and the desired Detection Time multiplier for BFD Echo = Packets are configured by the operator.

     

    =C2=B7         = nits:

    s/BFD procotol/BFD = protocol/3
    s/capablity/capability/

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<Weiqiang> Good catch, = will fix them, thank you.

    Regards,

    Greg

     

     

    On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:04 AM = Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> = wrote:

    Working = Group,

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffilia= ted-echo/

    At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo = Function was presented.  This
    is a followup of a presentation = given at IETF 106.

    The authors have indicated they would like to = have this work adopted by the
    BFD WG.  This begins the adoption = call ending August 16.  Please respond to
    the mailing list with = your thoughts on this adoption.

    It should be noted that this = document overlaps work in the Broadband Forum
    (BBF) document = TR-146.  As noted in the presentation, the BBF document = lacks
    some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD = implementations.
    This draft has good clarifications with regard to = implementations of this
    mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable = implementation is used.

    This raises two points to consider as = part of adoption:
    - This document with its current goals would Update = RFC 5880.
    - The status of this document would need to be Proposed = Standard.

    -- = Jeff

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Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE2263A0917; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 16:28:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-06.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Message-ID: <159667013569.18248.8653757038229653702@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 16:28:55 -0700 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 23:28:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG of the IETF. Title : Secure BFD Sequence Numbers Authors : Mahesh Jethanandani Sonal Agarwal Ashesh Mishra Ankur Saxena Alan DeKok Filename : draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-06.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2020-08-05 Abstract: This document describes a security enhancement for the sequence number used in BFD control packets. This document updates RFC 5880. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Aug 5 21:12:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44603A0DF9 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 21:12:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PqEf_DxpyQVM for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 21:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxhk.zte.com.cn (mxhk.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFF433A0DF8 for ; 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Thu, 6 Aug 2020 01:59:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OoMQbYW7RTrz for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 01:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4AF03A1059 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 01:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml731-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 87DD3D26A38CE64E546A for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:59:45 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml731-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.82) by lhreml731-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:59:45 +0100 Received: from DGGEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.49) by lhreml731-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:59:45 +0100 Received: from DGGEML510-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.246]) by dggeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.49]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 16:58:27 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Jeffrey Haas , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) Thread-Topic: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) Thread-Index: AQHWal/X0WGDLji9UEiCbMCfWwkyKqkqyjzw Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 08:58:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.140] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 08:59:52 -0000 Hi Jeff, I have read the draft, it's useful draft. I support the adoption. Best regards, Mach > -----Original Message----- > From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas > Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 9:16 PM > To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org > Subject: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 Augu= st, > 2020) >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ >=20 > At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. T= his > is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. >=20 > The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by t= he > BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond > to the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. >=20 > It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband > Forum > (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document > lacks some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD > implementations. > This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of this > mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. >=20 > This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: > - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. > - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. >=20 > -- Jeff From nobody Mon Aug 10 10:08:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048923A0B49; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:08:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N7oba9hJP--o; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x133.google.com (mail-il1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 822E83A0B35; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x133.google.com with SMTP id x1so8191699ilp.7; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:08:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=84QTFgmF45Ndclp18jPDlrxfrDgtIjMB4dEv/uR+gj4=; b=efdViVYRRMpfaXHYWvvO+pt9gRT1H3jgPMheYdRjFFS3qEMDgj5yKL9ddWOD0kbzES FMmfUqyq49nVdIgurkfYu9vjQD8G0Dhp7wo7ztzcUlmMrRkqM7diu6XrpUXHJh7Rgw7g gvhHY/UuPP341Lpmny0+uRzq/eoUYgEHWcgGSoOhRJGLeot34tQxcmwOJrwkkzwaWvMK +Z9Srx6Y5/AUrk0FejDgcn5XDnX9hRDoBGctfWaMVuq8WwSklO0AUQWakBX8uOyfRlHp ekT6J+QcbUYuLxAeHD0DEz4Iw9kiB1sc0Af1yhEkp5xYfSV5mSLUcTthIGcMG0caqNzB XXEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=84QTFgmF45Ndclp18jPDlrxfrDgtIjMB4dEv/uR+gj4=; b=HrZZbMzy7Nla7Di7bjP+oLnk7PbH7HjuaAfwAlGvuus1YX62mFGUHXOzybOmYAoMEk ANmdfkeKqRlayacFbNecDZIhF/6x2T2gtvshL68DgM6usBzKxoltcKg6WE0UKvFeu9zr GJew+9nVE8pOkuItnSWSjR9xe5jPxwOHQtF48btsfTYCjc2bPOsMaotMaGp0tKTZ7pJ6 6nGAfIFHxZV/dHcvBMVScjH9jJoB5U6Fuxhe/HZAj+4VDgrVa6Q+JNhh+4JSH/d+Zavj +pwXPtIT6QdVr7GG/Kq4YMRnUvlTxRbHqWn6j7kL8k5eoAEiWCw3xpRxVun+gkD9ngbn 9SSg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530fz1Z/oaaOiy/6g1zIsNHjFqoOUbnIBoOVo48veq5XTQlL9ZhT YduR7Q996XOvPC90iLtA2ahABVoospxDZj1o5mk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy/IcfudAAh746ovu5z62fAOa55Sp94/xwHbOOzdce7I3VnxP2xE4IWvufTKZrNXXkHgmnHUJetiq2J0gi8LsM= X-Received: by 2002:a92:cac8:: with SMTP id m8mr19683028ilq.168.1597079309789; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:08:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> <20200720213734.GC25102@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Donald Eastlake Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:08:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: BFD for vxlan Destination MAC field (was Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status) To: Greg Mirsky , The IESG , draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, bfd-chairs@ietf.org Cc: Jeffrey Haas , rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 17:08:32 -0000 Hi, My apologies for not responding earlier in this thread. IANA originally contacted me as a Designated Expert for MAC addresses under the IANA OUI last year in connection with version -07. At that time, I approved an assignment for this draft. I'm fine with any reasonable usage description the WG comes up with for this MAC address whether more or less generic. (Usage of a MAC address reserved for documentation would not be appropriate) Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:55 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > > Hi Jeff, > do you think that the record in the Usage filed for the requested MAC add= ress instead of "BFD over VXLAN" be more generic, e.g., "Active OAM over NV= O3"? > What do you think? > > Regards, > Greg > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 03:52:14PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> > >> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well known = and the >> > >> text would become: >> > >> >> > >> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants= , will >> > >> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value >> > >> X:X:X:X:X >> > >> SHOULD be used in this field." >> > >> >> > >> SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for permi= tting >> > >> the >> > >> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is d= esired=3D >> > > , >> > >> MUST might be inappropriate. >> > >> >> > > GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility to n= ot use >> > > the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus SHOULD= in the >> > > text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC add= ress? >> > >> > I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone in the IESG = can offer a fix. :-) I am copying Donald Eastlake since he's the designate= d expert for the IANA MAC address block. >> > >> > Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely the need is to= have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan PDU that is= literally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding". The packet ar= rives at the endpoint and, if not immediately accepted, would be dropped. >> > >> > If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such a behavior, = perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used? >> > >> > While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be used, IANA m= ay not appreciate that. >> >> Donald is not responding to emails. Considering I've been similarly bad >> about responding, that's forgivable. However, in the interest of advanc= ing >> the document, I'd like to make a proposal. >> >> https://www.iana.org/assignments/ethernet-numbers/ethernet-numbers.xhtml >> >> Proposed text: >> >> : Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants, wi= ll >> : have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value >> : [TBD1] SHOULD be used in this field. >> : >> : IANA Considerations: >> : >> : IANA is requested to assign a single MAC address to the value TBD1 fro= m the >> : "IANA Unicast 48-bit MAC Address" registry from the "Unassigned (small >> : allocations)" block. The Usage field will be "BFD for vxlan" with a >> : Reference field of this document. >> >> >> >> -- Jeff From nobody Mon Aug 10 12:14:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05753A0B41; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:14:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lobddvFS7SWX; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F218F3A0B2B; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dresden.attlocal.net (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A99691E342; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Subject: Re: BFD for vxlan Destination MAC field (was Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status) From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:14:48 -0400 Cc: Greg Mirsky , The IESG , draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, bfd-chairs@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> <20200720213734.GC25102@pfrc.org> To: Donald Eastlake X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 19:14:53 -0000 Thank you, Donald. Greg, would you bump the draft with this assignment? -- Jeff > On Aug 10, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Donald Eastlake wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > My apologies for not responding earlier in this thread. >=20 > IANA originally contacted me as a Designated Expert for MAC addresses > under the IANA OUI last year in connection with version -07. At that > time, I approved an assignment for this draft. I'm fine with any > reasonable usage description the WG comes up with for this MAC address > whether more or less generic. (Usage of a MAC address reserved for > documentation would not be appropriate) >=20 > Thanks, > Donald > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA > d3e3e3@gmail.com >=20 > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:55 PM Greg Mirsky = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Jeff, >> do you think that the record in the Usage filed for the requested MAC = address instead of "BFD over VXLAN" be more generic, e.g., "Active OAM = over NVO3"? >> What do you think? >>=20 >> Regards, >> Greg >>=20 >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: >>>=20 >>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 03:52:14PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >>>>>> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well = known and the >>>>>> text would become: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any = tenants, will >>>>>> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The = value >>>>>> X:X:X:X:X >>>>>> SHOULD be used in this field." >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for = permitting >>>>>> the >>>>>> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is = desired=3D >>>>> , >>>>>> MUST might be inappropriate. >>>>>>=20 >>>>> GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility to = not use >>>>> the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus = SHOULD in the >>>>> text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC = address? >>>>=20 >>>> I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone in the = IESG can offer a fix. :-) I am copying Donald Eastlake since he's the = designated expert for the IANA MAC address block. >>>>=20 >>>> Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely the need is = to have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan PDU = that is literally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding". The = packet arrives at the endpoint and, if not immediately accepted, would = be dropped. >>>>=20 >>>> If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such a = behavior, perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used? >>>>=20 >>>> While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be used, = IANA may not appreciate that. >>>=20 >>> Donald is not responding to emails. Considering I've been similarly = bad >>> about responding, that's forgivable. However, in the interest of = advancing >>> the document, I'd like to make a proposal. >>>=20 >>> = https://www.iana.org/assignments/ethernet-numbers/ethernet-numbers.xhtml >>>=20 >>> Proposed text: >>>=20 >>> : Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any = tenants, will >>> : have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value >>> : [TBD1] SHOULD be used in this field. >>> : >>> : IANA Considerations: >>> : >>> : IANA is requested to assign a single MAC address to the value TBD1 = from the >>> : "IANA Unicast 48-bit MAC Address" registry from the "Unassigned = (small >>> : allocations)" block. The Usage field will be "BFD for vxlan" with = a >>> : Reference field of this document. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- Jeff From nobody Mon Aug 10 12:39:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC7D3A0C5B; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LxaHl73sH0MD; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24CD53A0C61; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id g6so10875469ljn.11; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Kh02L1dTW+JRYOvoBzvV5WjZoE4o9SuLgVJiuRbf8DY=; b=PZt4n7ywUspLrIPVjXa+4geHWK0P+iX6p3ILTPakFN5IGLAkNF4mEKORvOCuAMtG7j D+Ifu74jNWBCh6epTns0pMEzkFO9oamamVJFT4HJ1cR5i+RY3GjyPQpssfJeRBVYjj3Q fqk2YgRDin6uaEL3AEsSYPYutxnWQ2V2N5vEBNMlct3JbaKyiTNYgr6kcD0xzdyEgYv9 BJ1+xmbjP6pFAw9EMl9ccY4RuVq8KMjX9wh8r+SlY0ZxIFdwGv5vQQAWl7fBHEffO2P7 zOTGeohcR6jeTzGeg1jxjDpyUHIYmx/teg7/ii8Wsru95S83QSnLcQSsmbyC5QKVrcDq ZMSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Kh02L1dTW+JRYOvoBzvV5WjZoE4o9SuLgVJiuRbf8DY=; b=XFhbdA/8NK7YC5rijDSGwYIL5QjmPAUzJgQ2jC33UiXnJXtjK62Mr39mfqljMqJj3Y 85CrzaQyVihw6KaT9GFcuUBusgyEA46lkChRuttqE6XLQXTzra33lStF7X4tapPFcTKL Ir5XJ2NShhSyZ9qWnkl2MxHevX3GoNY388azGPSroNBZ0sHL3/cbRB832Ftkh5lfRyHB vIsqj8NeHLztacb9tKjtfzXXGqQmnMbPatMGcmE1TrZ7CDcvZhiTzIcCNjl8mMsrnqUY SB0FrDOOiJAefIIem5qsvBszOuee4HLbK13+iXlQ2Xaf22G16TlpXktacrX4U8QenBWU RKrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531AlXjIvJSpCHEI5qi9ej8HnhRjY4B3DftoRIsolqd36ag9pffx mnuJcdFRRvLnH4ZkDEwWKaMaY1RS0rk5toBRf9T1jeWX X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw4HcOnT1iPewmMu+vic5GoUu69A8sm+IcOydTT0ijXFyuoly15entNGY9uMn/SuDxTP1DWrIRr32BOarWKjP4= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:752:: with SMTP id i18mr1350570ljd.428.1597088334140; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> <20200720213734.GC25102@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38:42 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: BFD for vxlan Destination MAC field (was Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status) To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: Donald Eastlake , The IESG , draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, bfd-chairs@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4dae105ac8b1aee" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 19:38:59 -0000 --000000000000d4dae105ac8b1aee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Jeff, to update the IANA considerations section by replacing TBD1 with the actual MAC address? I see two small allocation ranges for in the Unicast MAC addresses: 00-52-02 to 00-52-12 Unassigned (small allocations) .... 00-52-14 to 00-52-FF Unassigned (small allocations) Also, can we change the wording in the Reference column from "BFD over VXLAN" to "Control channel in NVO3"? That would be helpful to the work on OAM in Geneve. Regards, Greg On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Thank you, Donald. > > Greg, would you bump the draft with this assignment? > > -- Jeff > > > > On Aug 10, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Donald Eastlake wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > My apologies for not responding earlier in this thread. > > > > IANA originally contacted me as a Designated Expert for MAC addresses > > under the IANA OUI last year in connection with version -07. At that > > time, I approved an assignment for this draft. I'm fine with any > > reasonable usage description the WG comes up with for this MAC address > > whether more or less generic. (Usage of a MAC address reserved for > > documentation would not be appropriate) > > > > Thanks, > > Donald > > =============================== > > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA > > d3e3e3@gmail.com > > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:55 PM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > >> > >> Hi Jeff, > >> do you think that the record in the Usage filed for the requested MAC > address instead of "BFD over VXLAN" be more generic, e.g., "Active OAM over > NVO3"? > >> What do you think? > >> > >> Regards, > >> Greg > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 03:52:14PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >>>>>> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well known > and the > >>>>>> text would become: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any > tenants, will > >>>>>> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value > >>>>>> X:X:X:X:X > >>>>>> SHOULD be used in this field." > >>>>>> > >>>>>> SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for > permitting > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is > desired= > >>>>> , > >>>>>> MUST might be inappropriate. > >>>>>> > >>>>> GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility to > not use > >>>>> the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus SHOULD > in the > >>>>> text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC > address? > >>>> > >>>> I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone in the IESG > can offer a fix. :-) I am copying Donald Eastlake since he's the > designated expert for the IANA MAC address block. > >>>> > >>>> Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely the need is > to have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan PDU that > is literally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding". The packet > arrives at the endpoint and, if not immediately accepted, would be dropped. > >>>> > >>>> If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such a behavior, > perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used? > >>>> > >>>> While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be used, IANA > may not appreciate that. > >>> > >>> Donald is not responding to emails. Considering I've been similarly > bad > >>> about responding, that's forgivable. However, in the interest of > advancing > >>> the document, I'd like to make a proposal. > >>> > >>> > https://www.iana.org/assignments/ethernet-numbers/ethernet-numbers.xhtml > >>> > >>> Proposed text: > >>> > >>> : Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants, > will > >>> : have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value > >>> : [TBD1] SHOULD be used in this field. > >>> : > >>> : IANA Considerations: > >>> : > >>> : IANA is requested to assign a single MAC address to the value TBD1 > from the > >>> : "IANA Unicast 48-bit MAC Address" registry from the "Unassigned > (small > >>> : allocations)" block. The Usage field will be "BFD for vxlan" with a > >>> : Reference field of this document. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- Jeff > > --000000000000d4dae105ac8b1aee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Jeff,
    to update the IANA considerations section by = replacing TBD1 with the actual MAC address? I see two small allocation rang= es for in the Unicast MAC addresses:
    00-52-02 to 00-52-12 Unassig= ned (small allocations)
    ....
    00-52-14 to 00-52-FF Unassigned (small = allocations)

    Also, can we change the wording i= n the Reference column from "BFD over VXLAN" to "Control cha= nnel in NVO3"? That would be helpful to the work on OAM in Geneve.

    Regards,
    Greg

    On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at = 12:14 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org<= /a>> wrote:
    T= hank you, Donald.

    Greg, would you bump the draft with this assignment?

    -- Jeff


    > On Aug 10, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Donald Eastlake <    d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > My apologies for not responding earlier in this thread.
    >
    > IANA originally contacted me as a Designated Expert for MAC addresses<= br> > under the IANA OUI last year in connection with version -07. At that > time, I approved an assignment for this draft. I'm fine with any > reasonable usage description the WG comes up with for this MAC address=
    > whether more or less generic. (Usage of a MAC address reserved for
    > documentation would not be appropriate)
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Donald
    > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
    > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1-508-333-2270 (cell)
    > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
    > d3e3e3@gmail.com=
    >
    > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:55 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote: >>
    >> Hi Jeff,
    >> do you think that the record in the Usage filed for the requested = MAC address instead of "BFD over VXLAN" be more generic, e.g., &q= uot;Active OAM over NVO3"?
    >> What do you think?
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Greg
    >>
    >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 03:52:14PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:<= br> >>>>>> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen th= at is well known and the
    >>>>>> text would become:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which doe= s not have any tenants, will
    >>>>>> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated tra= ffic.=C2=A0 The value
    >>>>>> X:X:X:X:X
    >>>>>> SHOULD be used in this field."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> SHOULD might need to be MUST.=C2=A0 Since a partia= l motivation for permitting
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the ma= nagement VNI is desired=3D
    >>>>> ,
    >>>>>> MUST might be inappropriate.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that = the flexibility to not use
    >>>>> the Management VNI is permitted in the specification a= nd thus SHOULD in the
    >>>>> text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pi= ck the MAC address?
    >>>>
    >>>> I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone = in the IESG can offer a fix. :-)=C2=A0 I am copying Donald Eastlake since h= e's the designated expert for the IANA MAC address block.
    >>>>
    >>>> Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely th= e need is to have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan= PDU that is literally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding= ".=C2=A0 The packet arrives at the endpoint and, if not immediately ac= cepted, would be dropped.
    >>>>
    >>>> If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such = a behavior, perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used?
    >>>>
    >>>> While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be = used, IANA may not appreciate that.
    >>>
    >>> Donald is not responding to emails.=C2=A0 Considering I've= been similarly bad
    >>> about responding, that's forgivable.=C2=A0 However, in the= interest of advancing
    >>> the document, I'd like to make a proposal.
    >>>
    >>> https://www.ian= a.org/assignments/ethernet-numbers/ethernet-numbers.xhtml
    >>>
    >>> Proposed text:
    >>>
    >>> : Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any t= enants, will
    >>> : have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic.=C2= =A0 The value
    >>> : [TBD1] SHOULD be used in this field.
    >>> :
    >>> : IANA Considerations:
    >>> :
    >>> : IANA is requested to assign a single MAC address to the valu= e TBD1 from the
    >>> : "IANA Unicast 48-bit MAC Address" registry from th= e "Unassigned (small
    >>> : allocations)" block.=C2=A0 The Usage field will be &quo= t;BFD for vxlan" with a
    >>> : Reference field of this document.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> -- Jeff

    --000000000000d4dae105ac8b1aee-- From nobody Mon Aug 10 12:42:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594CE3A0C67; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:42:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WBgEht_Ha5s6; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11003A0C64; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dresden.attlocal.net (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A0161E342; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2E07E1AF-104A-4429-ADC0-DC95BE608569" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Subject: Re: BFD for vxlan Destination MAC field (was Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status) From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:42:36 -0400 Cc: Donald Eastlake , The IESG , draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, bfd-chairs@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Message-Id: References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> <20200720213734.GC25102@pfrc.org> To: Greg Mirsky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 19:42:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2E07E1AF-104A-4429-ADC0-DC95BE608569 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greg, Sorry, I was looking at two messages back to back. =46rom a unicast = from Donald: > I'm still working on catching up on the MAC address aspects of this > discussion so this message may have been overcome by events. >=20 > But individual MAC addresses are abundant. I received a request from > IANA in connection with the -07 version of this draft on 22 May 2019 > (yes 2019). I reviewed the draft the same day and sent back an > approval to IANA to assign a MAC address in which I suggested the > value 00-00-5E-00-52-02 which is still available according to the IANA > registry. Presumably IANA will make that assignment as soon as the > IESG approves the draft. -- Jeff > On Aug 10, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Greg Mirsky = wrote: >=20 > Hi Jeff, > to update the IANA considerations section by replacing TBD1 with the = actual MAC address? I see two small allocation ranges for in the Unicast = MAC addresses: > 00-52-02 to 00-52-12 Unassigned (small allocations)=20 > .... > 00-52-14 to 00-52-FF Unassigned (small allocations) >=20 > Also, can we change the wording in the Reference column from "BFD over = VXLAN" to "Control channel in NVO3"? That would be helpful to the work = on OAM in Geneve. >=20 > Regards, > Greg >=20 > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jeffrey Haas > wrote: > Thank you, Donald. >=20 > Greg, would you bump the draft with this assignment? >=20 > -- Jeff >=20 >=20 > > On Aug 10, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Donald Eastlake > wrote: > >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > My apologies for not responding earlier in this thread. > >=20 > > IANA originally contacted me as a Designated Expert for MAC = addresses > > under the IANA OUI last year in connection with version -07. At that > > time, I approved an assignment for this draft. I'm fine with any > > reasonable usage description the WG comes up with for this MAC = address > > whether more or less generic. (Usage of a MAC address reserved for > > documentation would not be appropriate) > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Donald > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA > > d3e3e3@gmail.com > >=20 > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:55 PM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > >>=20 > >> Hi Jeff, > >> do you think that the record in the Usage filed for the requested = MAC address instead of "BFD over VXLAN" be more generic, e.g., "Active = OAM over NVO3"? > >> What do you think? > >>=20 > >> Regards, > >> Greg > >>=20 > >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Haas > wrote: > >>>=20 > >>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 03:52:14PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >>>>>> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well = known and the > >>>>>> text would become: > >>>>>>=20 > >>>>>> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any = tenants, will > >>>>>> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The = value > >>>>>> X:X:X:X:X > >>>>>> SHOULD be used in this field." > >>>>>>=20 > >>>>>> SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for = permitting > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI = is desired=3D > >>>>> , > >>>>>> MUST might be inappropriate. > >>>>>>=20 > >>>>> GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility = to not use > >>>>> the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus = SHOULD in the > >>>>> text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC = address? > >>>>=20 > >>>> I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone in the = IESG can offer a fix. :-) I am copying Donald Eastlake since he's the = designated expert for the IANA MAC address block. > >>>>=20 > >>>> Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely the need = is to have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan PDU = that is literally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding". The = packet arrives at the endpoint and, if not immediately accepted, would = be dropped. > >>>>=20 > >>>> If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such a = behavior, perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used? > >>>>=20 > >>>> While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be used, = IANA may not appreciate that. > >>>=20 > >>> Donald is not responding to emails. Considering I've been = similarly bad > >>> about responding, that's forgivable. However, in the interest of = advancing > >>> the document, I'd like to make a proposal. > >>>=20 > >>> = https://www.iana.org/assignments/ethernet-numbers/ethernet-numbers.xhtml = = > >>>=20 > >>> Proposed text: > >>>=20 > >>> : Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any = tenants, will > >>> : have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The = value > >>> : [TBD1] SHOULD be used in this field. > >>> : > >>> : IANA Considerations: > >>> : > >>> : IANA is requested to assign a single MAC address to the value = TBD1 from the > >>> : "IANA Unicast 48-bit MAC Address" registry from the "Unassigned = (small > >>> : allocations)" block. The Usage field will be "BFD for vxlan" = with a > >>> : Reference field of this document. > >>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>> -- Jeff >=20 --Apple-Mail=_2E07E1AF-104A-4429-ADC0-DC95BE608569 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Greg,

    Sorry, I was looking at two messages back to back.  =46rom= a unicast from Donald:

    I'm still working on = catching up on the MAC address aspects of = this
    discussion so this message may have been overcome by = events.

    But individual MAC addresses are = abundant. I received a request from
    IANA in connection with = the -07 version of this draft on 22 May = 2019
    (yes 2019). I reviewed the draft the same day and sent = back an
    approval to IANA to assign a MAC address in which I = suggested the
    value 00-00-5E-00-52-02 which is still = available according to the IANA
    registry. Presumably IANA = will make that assignment as soon as = the
    IESG approves the = draft.


    -- = Jeff


    On Aug 10, 2020, at 3:38 PM, = Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

    Hi Jeff,
    to update the IANA considerations = section by replacing TBD1 with the actual MAC address? I see two small = allocation ranges for in the Unicast MAC addresses:
    00-52-02 to 00-52-12 Unassigned (small allocations)
    ....
    00-52-14 to 00-52-FF Unassigned = (small allocations)

    Also, can we change the wording in the = Reference column from "BFD over VXLAN" to "Control channel in NVO3"? = That would be helpful to the work on OAM in Geneve.

    Regards,
    Greg

    On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:14 PM = Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
    Thank you, Donald.
    =
    Greg, would you bump the draft with this assignment?

    -- Jeff


    > On Aug 10, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > My apologies for not responding earlier in this thread.
    >
    > IANA originally contacted me as a Designated Expert for MAC = addresses
    > under the IANA OUI last year in connection with version -07. At = that
    > time, I approved an assignment for this draft. I'm fine with any
    > reasonable usage description the WG comes up with for this MAC = address
    > whether more or less generic. (Usage of a MAC address reserved = for
    > documentation would not be appropriate)
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Donald
    > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
    > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
    > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
    > d3e3e3@gmail.com
    >
    > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:55 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
    >>
    >> Hi Jeff,
    >> do you think that the record in the Usage filed for the = requested MAC address instead of "BFD over VXLAN" be more generic, e.g., = "Active OAM over NVO3"?
    >> What do you think?
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Greg
    >>
    >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 03:52:14PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas = wrote:
    >>>>>> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen = that is well known and the
    >>>>>> text would become:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does = not have any tenants, will
    >>>>>> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated = traffic.  The value
    >>>>>> X:X:X:X:X
    >>>>>> SHOULD be used in this field."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> SHOULD might need to be MUST.  Since a = partial motivation for permitting
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the = management VNI is desired=3D
    >>>>> ,
    >>>>>> MUST might be inappropriate.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree = that the flexibility to not use
    >>>>> the Management VNI is permitted in the = specification and thus SHOULD in the
    >>>>> text is consistent with that scenario. How would we = pick the MAC address?
    >>>>
    >>>> I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping = someone in the IESG can offer a fix. :-)  I am copying Donald = Eastlake since he's the designated expert for the IANA MAC address = block.
    >>>>
    >>>> Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely = the need is to have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this = vxlan PDU that is literally a placeholder of "not to be used for = forwarding".  The packet arrives at the endpoint and, if not = immediately accepted, would be dropped.
    >>>>
    >>>> If there is no well known MAC that could be used for = such a behavior, perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used?
    >>>>
    >>>> While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could = be used, IANA may not appreciate that.
    >>>
    >>> Donald is not responding to emails.  Considering I've = been similarly bad
    >>> about responding, that's forgivable.  However, in the = interest of advancing
    >>> the document, I'd like to make a proposal.
    >>>
    >>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/ethernet-numbers/ethernet-numb= ers.xhtml
    >>>
    >>> Proposed text:
    >>>
    >>> : Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have = any tenants, will
    >>> : have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated = traffic.  The value
    >>> : [TBD1] SHOULD be used in this field.
    >>> :
    >>> : IANA Considerations:
    >>> :
    >>> : IANA is requested to assign a single MAC address to the = value TBD1 from the
    >>> : "IANA Unicast 48-bit MAC Address" registry from the = "Unassigned (small
    >>> : allocations)" block.  The Usage field will be "BFD = for vxlan" with a
    >>> : Reference field of this document.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> -- Jeff


    = --Apple-Mail=_2E07E1AF-104A-4429-ADC0-DC95BE608569-- From nobody Mon Aug 10 13:52:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85D63A0D63; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:52:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AYXPARAtuqoL; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x131.google.com (mail-il1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 759543A0D62; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x131.google.com with SMTP id l7so4301988ils.2; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:52:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iSr+tlxpynNq+wQoJDVMUFZTgTUEymgSOFByMVZX8FM=; b=kwzYR3ui54XSe9x/x+ILEFMB+PFR7exaRkR9gixigOHyazH/XZmafUuXLkM56sIFos LiP59iQzhKXD7mfm5Udv7Jq6QNLxgx/DM6da/wcF6SadKZdMCNKBHW/2yVAWuQyM7GAG +2/wqc3kq/DQ3Osw0XLc+29nKwnlWB4RuA14rYWj1hX5dsZlfBSkBzqY+bx3YLONNnHn sstNT4k5k8IQbhqpWoVD8mvfCx/afblBiPX5T2YvKCnWxoMPCDTJupydE8p4DKBytXQ4 SgrWT7jWoCyQ9ao5EiVd+WqtquASsiFkMVo+Oz0lAkHffgxAwlN/3F+ThBaeMq1Z9wea Wnwg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iSr+tlxpynNq+wQoJDVMUFZTgTUEymgSOFByMVZX8FM=; b=LDl4mSxyCt24BUxttxhsdS5RZOG4Wo5SsgfpZNIKejwEvJtlAKbZwnEFNXPjSRNTdj QX+EQLHIp652foYbOnXQy/mMyNdGhfXFjnP8XPUG964uNQHAvu4Fh/XwaYhVGwft+cO7 5VUY00ZTDZzteoAPLHevQQcBF+uxmgRyPWwUkCjg9yzLcoJC+IsjoLYo9MmhCHLdxrRI TG5TdCuJiIvw02Jp7FitFBoU9iN88wDQJ7xnYmIlux6I5FlA3M2u1I+0iMdUWTr4Al5F 9GUNC8jRLiaymKVHHqTG5FoGLOsZpoNI5S1h0z+/j8LLo7w6B9clrgQpQcIKyZOLsGfs FiYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Qtg9Lvo8XGO+FsLWQWRymYQwZDhmghd8oU0Lk278FYcM14TId xTaOpgFcd3tWZENxWQcsMvzZVeJbnrl2i3ORqis= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw3wPr0wBDEYh71XnthgEwUvz4J17gcFQgd924fJ+s73MxwI0Ga3F6Ta/qq+FZhrHJQ0nHbyXn0ajkMOpGHr34= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:f07:: with SMTP id x7mr19923621ilj.40.1597092723538; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:52:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> <20200720213734.GC25102@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Donald Eastlake Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:51:52 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: BFD for vxlan Destination MAC field (was Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status) To: Greg Mirsky Cc: Jeffrey Haas , The IESG , draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, bfd-chairs@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:52:07 -0000 Hi Greg, You shouldn't put a specific MAC address in the draft until it is assigned in the IANA registry. Requests that only appear in drafts don't take effect until the draft is approved but if assignment policy for the registry does not require IESG approval of a draft (for example, First Come First Served or Expert Review) you can send a request to IANA (see template in Appendix A.1 of RFC 7042) and then, after IANA has assigned a value, put it into a draft. Assignment of one or a small block of 48-bit MAC addresses is a slight variation on Expert Review (see Section 2.1.3 of RFC 7042). However, this document seems far enough along in the process that I'm not sure a separate request for the assignment (which would probably be referred to me and I would approve) would be worth it. Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 3:38 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > > Hi Jeff, > to update the IANA considerations section by replacing TBD1 with the actu= al MAC address? I see two small allocation ranges for in the Unicast MAC ad= dresses: > 00-52-02 to 00-52-12 Unassigned (small allocations) > .... > 00-52-14 to 00-52-FF Unassigned (small allocations) > > Also, can we change the wording in the Reference column from "BFD over VX= LAN" to "Control channel in NVO3"? That would be helpful to the work on OAM= in Geneve. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> >> Thank you, Donald. >> >> Greg, would you bump the draft with this assignment? >> >> -- Jeff >> >> >> > On Aug 10, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Donald Eastlake wrote: >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > My apologies for not responding earlier in this thread. >> > >> > IANA originally contacted me as a Designated Expert for MAC addresses >> > under the IANA OUI last year in connection with version -07. At that >> > time, I approved an assignment for this draft. I'm fine with any >> > reasonable usage description the WG comes up with for this MAC address >> > whether more or less generic. (Usage of a MAC address reserved for >> > documentation would not be appropriate) >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Donald >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) >> > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA >> > d3e3e3@gmail.com >> > >> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:55 PM Greg Mirsky wr= ote: >> >> >> >> Hi Jeff, >> >> do you think that the record in the Usage filed for the requested MAC= address instead of "BFD over VXLAN" be more generic, e.g., "Active OAM ove= r NVO3"? >> >> What do you think? >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 03:52:14PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> >>>>>> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well know= n and the >> >>>>>> text would become: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenan= ts, will >> >>>>>> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The valu= e >> >>>>>> X:X:X:X:X >> >>>>>> SHOULD be used in this field." >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for per= mitting >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is= desired=3D >> >>>>> , >> >>>>>> MUST might be inappropriate. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility to= not use >> >>>>> the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus SHOU= LD in the >> >>>>> text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC a= ddress? >> >>>> >> >>>> I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone in the IE= SG can offer a fix. :-) I am copying Donald Eastlake since he's the design= ated expert for the IANA MAC address block. >> >>>> >> >>>> Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely the need is= to have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan PDU that= is literally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding". The packet= arrives at the endpoint and, if not immediately accepted, would be dropped= . >> >>>> >> >>>> If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such a behavio= r, perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used? >> >>>> >> >>>> While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be used, IAN= A may not appreciate that. >> >>> >> >>> Donald is not responding to emails. Considering I've been similarly= bad >> >>> about responding, that's forgivable. However, in the interest of ad= vancing >> >>> the document, I'd like to make a proposal. >> >>> >> >>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/ethernet-numbers/ethernet-numbers.x= html >> >>> >> >>> Proposed text: >> >>> >> >>> : Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants= , will >> >>> : have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value >> >>> : [TBD1] SHOULD be used in this field. >> >>> : >> >>> : IANA Considerations: >> >>> : >> >>> : IANA is requested to assign a single MAC address to the value TBD1= from the >> >>> : "IANA Unicast 48-bit MAC Address" registry from the "Unassigned (s= mall >> >>> : allocations)" block. The Usage field will be "BFD for vxlan" with= a >> >>> : Reference field of this document. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- Jeff >> From nobody Mon Aug 10 14:22:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEEBC3A0D9A; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:22:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dSdh8GUyP2Q3; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E18C63A0D57; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id t6so11205319ljk.9; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:22:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=OAZ9IJnONGHnFo7gt/VXQHow+8N/Yqh+FMSemOUJpaA=; b=ClLrG7xNyxfYdhvs8k2Lfh+mQ7p5anwoyNmBQgPz00Yi/jgkVvJ1Ql/5PkQ4uvEObV xW6nqeKva7r9GgGwdjooX3rjGi/EbdmWyU6kkciO8ErqluGiLpZqXTaIWyYJkYgKrKve tPqxZpjO4oL4nihpInfZ52KcpMRQHY+sF+8vjzriAC2FCrP+E4Pxjt1e0RoKgMFPFagV cWjve2OrH+WzCj0q5bwuWGtYDCBIlJlJ/krnoLIbnWKbL5uyZDbL/rgQusc5JQdX0uAZ ZXvKmJ8EbSTSiOGJOw4kUeHV8SdGB3iA+ARN7v2apmSBCVU/RCO7xfcru+jCl3AzIk/d K9Tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OAZ9IJnONGHnFo7gt/VXQHow+8N/Yqh+FMSemOUJpaA=; b=XO75h5ylXZax6cym0TNviTCWVmvTVzDnb5tubK2xjSIyKGd6vnftoUgGnlppzRr+bp bXQUja4F3qxTbhHN+w15AxiWkBLeZsy51j5xZmc7x+WA2MMkWY4lKFbDPZXuuGH+X6kE m+m5/K4lsh5rMDHgHgmCK6EEBXYtPcZEz4O5959UIqyf3E3Z4WSMPaFBfLoXkw2EnhvA dD/VkVCLpM6gUrC+uFyrQd4gCpGSd5QqgTGDsLn+/HY0Df74wFlfjxxBcTLGRM5L505n VycuFz9S3sqVk6gxZArDQhH7W7ZZasVz7ky+XhvG9GZBhQef0hyEryCZjpU7ZI7C2y8d kGRA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Ly0JDhPI9JN30k/vjKVRTUHeYpYG/YQmsFYEORHr4Jv8Ggk5P 90xDoCeIaCPXhe4UrdmUrX4c5s6p5goXeaFiZFw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxxR7oKSYyt2NWUEEOhm4nyzjD0b463aKrTyBy2tqU9KvnLHRWmXL3mbxTEA43ZBtsZ/OMI2OYXINKolBd7BRs= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8648:: with SMTP id i8mr1578575ljj.288.1597094547984; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:22:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> <20200720213734.GC25102@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:22:17 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: BFD for vxlan Destination MAC field (was Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status) To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Jeffrey Haas , The IESG , draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, bfd-chairs@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003495bb05ac8c8d59" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 21:22:32 -0000 --0000000000003495bb05ac8c8d59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Donald, many thanks for your clarification. Will wait for the IESG review of the current version. Regards, Greg On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:52 PM Donald Eastlake wrote: > Hi Greg, > > You shouldn't put a specific MAC address in the draft until it is > assigned in the IANA registry. > > Requests that only appear in drafts don't take effect until the draft > is approved but if assignment policy for the registry does not require > IESG approval of a draft (for example, First Come First Served or > Expert Review) you can send a request to IANA (see template in > Appendix A.1 of RFC 7042) and then, after IANA has assigned a value, > put it into a draft. Assignment of one or a small block of 48-bit MAC > addresses is a slight variation on Expert Review (see Section 2.1.3 of > RFC 7042). > > However, this document seems far enough along in the process that I'm > not sure a separate request for the assignment (which would probably > be referred to me and I would approve) would be worth it. > > Thanks, > Donald > =============================== > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA > d3e3e3@gmail.com > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 3:38 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > > > > Hi Jeff, > > to update the IANA considerations section by replacing TBD1 with the > actual MAC address? I see two small allocation ranges for in the Unicast > MAC addresses: > > 00-52-02 to 00-52-12 Unassigned (small allocations) > > .... > > 00-52-14 to 00-52-FF Unassigned (small allocations) > > > > Also, can we change the wording in the Reference column from "BFD over > VXLAN" to "Control channel in NVO3"? That would be helpful to the work on > OAM in Geneve. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >> > >> Thank you, Donald. > >> > >> Greg, would you bump the draft with this assignment? > >> > >> -- Jeff > >> > >> > >> > On Aug 10, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Donald Eastlake > wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > My apologies for not responding earlier in this thread. > >> > > >> > IANA originally contacted me as a Designated Expert for MAC addresses > >> > under the IANA OUI last year in connection with version -07. At that > >> > time, I approved an assignment for this draft. I'm fine with any > >> > reasonable usage description the WG comes up with for this MAC address > >> > whether more or less generic. (Usage of a MAC address reserved for > >> > documentation would not be appropriate) > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Donald > >> > =============================== > >> > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > >> > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA > >> > d3e3e3@gmail.com > >> > > >> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:55 PM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Hi Jeff, > >> >> do you think that the record in the Usage filed for the requested > MAC address instead of "BFD over VXLAN" be more generic, e.g., "Active OAM > over NVO3"? > >> >> What do you think? > >> >> > >> >> Regards, > >> >> Greg > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 03:52:14PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >> >>>>>> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well > known and the > >> >>>>>> text would become: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any > tenants, will > >> >>>>>> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The > value > >> >>>>>> X:X:X:X:X > >> >>>>>> SHOULD be used in this field." > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for > permitting > >> >>>>>> the > >> >>>>>> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI > is desired= > >> >>>>> , > >> >>>>>> MUST might be inappropriate. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>> GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility > to not use > >> >>>>> the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus > SHOULD in the > >> >>>>> text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC > address? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone in the > IESG can offer a fix. :-) I am copying Donald Eastlake since he's the > designated expert for the IANA MAC address block. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely the need > is to have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan PDU > that is literally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding". The > packet arrives at the endpoint and, if not immediately accepted, would be > dropped. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such a > behavior, perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be used, > IANA may not appreciate that. > >> >>> > >> >>> Donald is not responding to emails. Considering I've been > similarly bad > >> >>> about responding, that's forgivable. However, in the interest of > advancing > >> >>> the document, I'd like to make a proposal. > >> >>> > >> >>> > https://www.iana.org/assignments/ethernet-numbers/ethernet-numbers.xhtml > >> >>> > >> >>> Proposed text: > >> >>> > >> >>> : Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any > tenants, will > >> >>> : have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value > >> >>> : [TBD1] SHOULD be used in this field. > >> >>> : > >> >>> : IANA Considerations: > >> >>> : > >> >>> : IANA is requested to assign a single MAC address to the value > TBD1 from the > >> >>> : "IANA Unicast 48-bit MAC Address" registry from the "Unassigned > (small > >> >>> : allocations)" block. The Usage field will be "BFD for vxlan" > with a > >> >>> : Reference field of this document. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- Jeff > >> > --0000000000003495bb05ac8c8d59 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Donald,
    many thanks for your clarification. Will wa= it for the IESG review of the current version.

    Reg= ards,
    Greg

    On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:52 PM Donald Eastlake &= lt;d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote:
    <= /div>
    Hi Greg,

    You shouldn't put a specific MAC address in the draft until it is
    assigned in the IANA registry.

    Requests that only appear in drafts don't take effect until the draft is approved but if assignment policy for the registry does not require
    IESG approval of a draft (for example, First Come First Served or
    Expert Review) you can send a request to IANA (see template in
    Appendix A.1 of RFC 7042) and then, after IANA has assigned a value,
    put it into a draft. Assignment of one or a small block of 48-bit MAC
    addresses is a slight variation on Expert Review (see Section 2.1.3 of
    RFC 7042).

    However, this document seems far enough along in the process that I'm not sure a separate request for the assignment (which would probably
    be referred to me and I would approve) would be worth it.

    Thanks,
    Donald
    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
    =C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1-508-333-2270 (cell)
    =C2=A02386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
    =C2=A0d3e3e3@gmail.co= m

    On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 3:38 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > Hi Jeff,
    > to update the IANA considerations section by replacing TBD1 with the a= ctual MAC address? I see two small allocation ranges for in the Unicast MAC= addresses:
    > 00-52-02 to 00-52-12 Unassigned (small allocations)
    > ....
    > 00-52-14 to 00-52-FF Unassigned (small allocations)
    >
    > Also, can we change the wording in the Reference column from "BFD= over VXLAN" to "Control channel in NVO3"? That would be hel= pful to the work on OAM in Geneve.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Greg
    >
    > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
    >>
    >> Thank you, Donald.
    >>
    >> Greg, would you bump the draft with this assignment?
    >>
    >> -- Jeff
    >>
    >>
    >> > On Aug 10, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote: >> >
    >> > Hi,
    >> >
    >> > My apologies for not responding earlier in this thread.
    >> >
    >> > IANA originally contacted me as a Designated Expert for MAC a= ddresses
    >> > under the IANA OUI last year in connection with version -07. = At that
    >> > time, I approved an assignment for this draft. I'm fine w= ith any
    >> > reasonable usage description the WG comes up with for this MA= C address
    >> > whether more or less generic. (Usage of a MAC address reserve= d for
    >> > documentation would not be appropriate)
    >> >
    >> > Thanks,
    >> > Donald
    >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
    >> > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1-508-333-2270 (cell)
    >> > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
    >> > d3e3e3@= gmail.com
    >> >
    >> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:55 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>= wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> Hi Jeff,
    >> >> do you think that the record in the Usage filed for the r= equested MAC address instead of "BFD over VXLAN" be more generic,= e.g., "Active OAM over NVO3"?
    >> >> What do you think?
    >> >>
    >> >> Regards,
    >> >> Greg
    >> >>
    >> >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:<= br> >> >>>
    >> >>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 03:52:14PM -0400, Jeffrey Haa= s wrote:
    >> >>>>>> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be = chosen that is well known and the
    >> >>>>>> text would become:
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, = which does not have any tenants, will
    >> >>>>>> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsu= lated traffic.=C2=A0 The value
    >> >>>>>> X:X:X:X:X
    >> >>>>>> SHOULD be used in this field."
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>> SHOULD might need to be MUST.=C2=A0 Since= a partial motivation for permitting
    >> >>>>>> the
    >> >>>>>> flexibility in the specification to NOT u= se the management VNI is desired=3D
    >> >>>>> ,
    >> >>>>>> MUST might be inappropriate.
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>> GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I ag= ree that the flexibility to not use
    >> >>>>> the Management VNI is permitted in the specif= ication and thus SHOULD in the
    >> >>>>> text is consistent with that scenario. How wo= uld we pick the MAC address?
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping= someone in the IESG can offer a fix. :-)=C2=A0 I am copying Donald Eastlak= e since he's the designated expert for the IANA MAC address block.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but t= ersely the need is to have a well known MAC address that can be placed in t= his vxlan PDU that is literally a placeholder of "not to be used for f= orwarding".=C2=A0 The packet arrives at the endpoint and, if not immed= iately accepted, would be dropped.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> If there is no well known MAC that could be used = for such a behavior, perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used? >> >>>>
    >> >>>> While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range = could be used, IANA may not appreciate that.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Donald is not responding to emails.=C2=A0 Considering= I've been similarly bad
    >> >>> about responding, that's forgivable.=C2=A0 Howeve= r, in the interest of advancing
    >> >>> the document, I'd like to make a proposal.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> https:= //www.iana.org/assignments/ethernet-numbers/ethernet-numbers.xhtml
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Proposed text:
    >> >>>
    >> >>> : Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not h= ave any tenants, will
    >> >>> : have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traf= fic.=C2=A0 The value
    >> >>> : [TBD1] SHOULD be used in this field.
    >> >>> :
    >> >>> : IANA Considerations:
    >> >>> :
    >> >>> : IANA is requested to assign a single MAC address to= the value TBD1 from the
    >> >>> : "IANA Unicast 48-bit MAC Address" registr= y from the "Unassigned (small
    >> >>> : allocations)" block.=C2=A0 The Usage field wil= l be "BFD for vxlan" with a
    >> >>> : Reference field of this document.
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> -- Jeff
    >>
    --0000000000003495bb05ac8c8d59-- From nobody Tue Aug 11 23:27:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934B43A1086; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 23:27:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pXb6bJxgOoT5; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 23:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EEF63A1088; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 23:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.17]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app11-12011 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2eeb5f338bb833c-345e3; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:27:04 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2eeb5f338bb833c-345e3 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmccPC (unknown[223.69.29.68]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr09-12009 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee95f338bb6e2c-1d35d; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:27:04 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee95f338bb6e2c-1d35d From: "qinfengwei" To: , References: <03dc01d66f26$b1891600$149b4200$@com> In-Reply-To: <03dc01d66f26$b1891600$149b4200$@com> Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogQWRvcHRpb24gY2FsbCBmb3IgZHJhZnQtY3ctYmZkLXVuYQ==?= =?gb2312?B?ZmZpbGlhdGVkLWVjaG8gKGVuZGluZyAxNiBBdWd1c3QsIDIwMjAp?= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:27:04 +0800 Message-ID: <018d01d67071$99672f20$cc358d60$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdZqX9arTYmclvY3Rqa9ix5ZVgAjygExmg8QAFK7i/A= Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 06:27:22 -0000 Hi, I support the adoption of the draft. Thanks, Fengwei Qin -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED Jeffrey Haas =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2020=C4=EA8=D4=C24=C8=D5 21:16 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: rtg-bfd@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending = 16 August, 2020) Working Group, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. = This is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by = the BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond = to the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband = Forum (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document = lacks some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD = implementations. This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of = this mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. -- Jeff From nobody Wed Aug 12 01:05:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C723A1124; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 01:05:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.329 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.329 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FRDREwk2XYIY; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 01:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E726A3A112A; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 01:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.1]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee35f33a28657c-35ab1; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 16:04:22 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee35f33a28657c-35ab1 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from LAPTOP-5GS3BPC8 (unknown[10.1.6.7]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee15f33a283ac9-4c0ab; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 16:04:22 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee15f33a283ac9-4c0ab MIME-Version: 1.0 x-PcFlag: 098717aa-c080-4f45-9a57-924a171af3e0_5_12369 X-Mailer: PC_RICHMAIL 2.8.2 Date: 12 Aug 2020 16:04:20 +0800 From: =?utf-8?B?WWlzb25nIExpdQ==?= To: rtg-bfd-bounces, rtg-bfd Cc: Subject: Re: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) Message-ID: 2020081216042025035648@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/Alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart25035648_=----" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 08:05:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart25035648_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQ1IaSBhbGwNDQ0NDUkgc3VwcG9ydCB0aGUgYWRvcHRpb24gb2YgdGhlIGRyYWZ0Lg0NDQ0NVGhh bmtzDQ1ZaXNvbmcNDQ0NDS0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS3lj5Hku7bkuro6IFJ0Zy1iZmQg W21haWx0bzpydGctYmZkLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIOS7o+ihqCBKZWZmcmV5IEhhYXMN5Y+R 6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDIw5bm0OOaciDTml6UgMjE6MTYN5pS25Lu25Lq6OiBydGctYmZkQGlldGYu b3JnDeS4u+mimDogQWRvcHRpb24gY2FsbCBmb3IgZHJhZnQtY3ctYmZkLXVuYWZmaWxpYXRlZC1l Y2hvIChlbmRpbmcgMTYgQXVndXN0LA0yMDIwKQ0NV29ya2luZyBHcm91cCwNDWh0dHBzOi8vZGF0 YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWN3LWJmZC11bmFmZmlsaWF0ZWQtZWNoby8NDUF0 IHRoZSB2aXJ0dWFsIElFVEYgMTA4LCBVbmFmZmlsaWF0ZWQgQkZEIEVjaG8gRnVuY3Rpb24gd2Fz IHByZXNlbnRlZC4gIFRoaXMNaXMgYSBmb2xsb3d1cCBvZiBhIHByZXNlbnRhdGlvbiBnaXZlbiBh dCBJRVRGIDEwNi4NDVRoZSBhdXRob3JzIGhhdmUgaW5kaWNhdGVkIHRoZXkgd291bGQgbGlrZSB0 byBoYXZlIHRoaXMgd29yayBhZG9wdGVkIGJ5IHRoZQ1CRkQgV0cuICBUaGlzIGJlZ2lucyB0aGUg YWRvcHRpb24gY2FsbCBlbmRpbmcgQXVndXN0IDE2LiAgUGxlYXNlIHJlc3BvbmQgdG8NdGhlIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdCB3aXRoIHlvdXIgdGhvdWdodHMgb24gdGhpcyBhZG9wdGlvbi4NDUl0IHNob3Vs ZCBiZSBub3RlZCB0aGF0IHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgb3ZlcmxhcHMgd29yayBpbiB0aGUgQnJvYWRi YW5kIEZvcnVtDShCQkYpIGRvY3VtZW50IFRSLTE0Ni4gIEFzIG5vdGVkIGluIHRoZSBwcmVzZW50 YXRpb24sIHRoZSBCQkYgZG9jdW1lbnQgbGFja3MNc29tZSBjbGFyaXR5IGFuZCBhbHNvIGRvZXNu J3QgZGlzY3VzcyBpbnRlcmFjdGlvbnMgd2l0aCBCRkQgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zLg1UaGlzIGRy YWZ0IGhhcyBnb29kIGNsYXJpZmljYXRpb25zIHdpdGggcmVnYXJkIHRvIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9u cyBvZiB0aGlzDW1lY2hhbmlzbSB3aGVuIHRoZSBhIEJGRCBFY2hvLWNhcGFibGUgaW1wbGVtZW50 YXRpb24gaXMgdXNlZC4NDVRoaXMgcmFpc2VzIHR3byBwb2ludHMgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIgYXMgcGFy dCBvZiBhZG9wdGlvbjoNLSBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHdpdGggaXRzIGN1cnJlbnQgZ29hbHMgd291 bGQgVXBkYXRlIFJGQyA1ODgwLg0tIFRoZSBzdGF0dXMgb2YgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCB3b3VsZCBu ZWVkIHRvIGJlIFByb3Bvc2VkIFN0YW5kYXJkLg0NLS0gSmVmZg0NDQ== ------=_001_NextPart25035648_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi=20all

    I=20support=20the=20adoption=20of=20the=20draft.
    ThanksYisong
    -----=E9=82=AE= =E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:= =20Rtg-bfd=20=5Bmailto:rtg-bfd-bounces=40ietf.org=5D=20=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8= =20Jeffrey=20Haas
    =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:=202020=E5=B9=B48= =E6=9C=884=E6=97=A5=2021:16
    =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=20rtg-bfd=40iet= f.org
    =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:=20Adoption=20call=20for=20draft-cw-bfd-unaffil= iated-echo=20(ending=2016=20August,
    2020)

    Working=20Group,
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/

    At= =20the=20virtual=20IETF=20108,=20Unaffiliated=20BFD=20Echo=20Function=20was= =20presented.=20=20This
    is=20a=20followup=20of=20a=20presentation=20give= n=20at=20IETF=20106.

    The=20authors=20have=20indicated=20they=20would= =20like=20to=20have=20this=20work=20adopted=20by=20the
    BFD=20WG.=20=20Th= is=20begins=20the=20adoption=20call=20ending=20August=2016.=20=20Please=20r= espond=20to
    the=20mailing=20list=20with=20your=20thoughts=20on=20this=20= adoption.

    It=20should=20be=20noted=20that=20this=20document=20overla= ps=20work=20in=20the=20Broadband=20Forum
    (BBF)=20document=20TR-146.=20= =20As=20noted=20in=20the=20presentation,=20the=20BBF=20document=20lacks
    = some=20clarity=20and=20also=20doesn't=20discuss=20interactions=20with=20BFD= =20implementations.
    This=20draft=20has=20good=20clarifications=20with=20= regard=20to=20implementations=20of=20this
    mechanism=20when=20the=20a=20B= FD=20Echo-capable=20implementation=20is=20used.

    This=20raises=20two= =20points=20to=20consider=20as=20part=20of=20adoption:
    -=20This=20docume= nt=20with=20its=20current=20goals=20would=20Update=20RFC=205880.
    -=20The= =20status=20of=20this=20document=20would=20need=20to=20be=20Proposed=20Stan= dard.

    --=20Jeff


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Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:55:17 +0000 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Jeffrey Haas , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) Thread-Topic: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) Thread-Index: AQHWal/ctVBTc8Iay0yCjnj3FewJ/Kk3rwZw Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:55:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: pfrc.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;pfrc.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [72.163.220.9] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9ffd7dce-56a3-42c3-2ff7-08d84059ad03 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR1101MB2176: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MW3PR11MB4570.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9ffd7dce-56a3-42c3-2ff7-08d84059ad03 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Aug 2020 13:55:17.0634 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 49ZubDkBTgJO/TEZzIneAjyyrzAs+IGseCMc5JbCffuZi6W7bYLhXODY2kVHmrcT/efJ0CqR3OMw7HJQeuPqdw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR1101MB2176 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.15, xch-aln-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:55:30 -0000 Hi All, I believe the WG should adopt this document since this is a very useful ext= ension for BFD protocol in specific scenarios. While the document needs mor= e details on the applicability, operational guidance and procedures, it doe= s provide a very good starting point for the WG to address this topic/requi= rement. I also believe that while the proposal may not involve new/updated encoding= s, it certainly describes modified protocol procedures and so likely belong= s to standards track. I have a feeling that it might also end up updating R= FC5880 as we go along. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Rtg-bfd On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas Sent: 04 August 2020 18:46 To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August= , 2020) Working Group, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. Thi= s is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by the= BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond t= o the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband Forum (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document lack= s some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD implementatio= ns. This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of this m= echanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. -- Jeff From nobody Sun Aug 16 08:26:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A9EE3A0CF4 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:26:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xtQhE43a5YCr for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com (mail-il1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8400E3A0CF2 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id p18so8591284ilm.7 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:26:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=oKjzeWEiENiHIYvCpW8ioG939yZdK0lazSUEQVs7Vxo=; b=SfPQLETpJlDkBUnUUMPUjqjGr3667E+CpTgytiQl9Zzjekk89isJNehTSXzy2U6mCu xUAbW2gruadAEBezYPzJmzc/6wqa0xOmLPa4TEuTFGSVU4hvCcnHW8CqoHg24vSjIywS 0hfRLOk41wYdhHWKLbPEBNj23tSCwPBcQnQattcqoH+XR4WKPYtl0Uq0hPeEra2YSf/A LXxzQKLuuxQyNPZNkZkJ/0kTVApTB5UjDKsg6j99tiVeU74TweOKACxw3KHJ4bwa4Xey Ouqsim1IiM6zaZ9cIoIvNwJcC5cbuo3nW5MOqKU6OMZwn6ZYC2QuJ3GsY9UmH4uK+/uQ BMAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oKjzeWEiENiHIYvCpW8ioG939yZdK0lazSUEQVs7Vxo=; b=aFNfuSeNAsJa3dG6YOOSlpsKHLFqNBk+9STwVhACjj6nXGmYYVQT+8FPCsmmYxGRcP KKwdg4ugmZPOrjmwd2nd9Fq3ntl3pPbXi4MJJAp5z0V+iANEkl94Lc8gA7z8f9LjKN4j Zo5MFStUMltrzYvUzoByFcYIRuS4NnAN9haYZsFC+Q6T75C8BrjZhKpB3oLGOLy9MEwV HFVHN4y7tRAsDchVw9buPHb2Nkkao3JYLGq3YmZwDBWSUchXpv/rZdxgdcgiMQYzrqwj Dd3pA8htNNhyWzty7texB13fQfShhnMLR/9YUpGRCbeJ0mlPwpfEHqRK45hfNXelrUGm 0EWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531hJDF8heyktbnObh4tdER4wcoNMf7AmchHxOEtHWMZpiruZjqA p/9JmZzcYOSTGXlv+z6ARh0olknzRSDzUrURVgo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyd4e3cCp5eonMNHtxAI4Ddpeh6cd8rqAYYkr7eMKk5kBMS5uIsw2PcRbKXuKeeGcGJg3Wdzh/1avHU5T+Qrcw= X-Received: by 2002:a92:40c1:: with SMTP id d62mr9451540ill.35.1597591561770; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:26:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> From: Santosh P K Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 20:55:50 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000891ad605ad0045c0" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 15:26:04 -0000 --000000000000891ad605ad0045c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello Authors, I read the document and I do have some questions. In section 1 text below "When using BFD echo function, it is not clear whether the devices using echo function need to support the full BFD procotol, including maintaining the state machine of BFD session as described in [RFC5880] and [RFC5881]. According to different understanding, there are two typical scenarios as below:" I think RFC 5880 section 6.4 "The Echo Function and Asymmetry" clearly calls out BFD echo function is negotiated and also it suggests to keep BFD state machine on both ends with a sedated interval. So not sure why you mention it is not clear in RFC 5880. Secondly if we do not need BFD async then it need not be BFD echo it can be any packet which is has destination IP set to self IP can do that job isn't it? Thanks Santosh P K On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:34 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Working Group, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ > > At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. > This > is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. > > The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by the > BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond to > the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. > > It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband Forum > (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document > lacks > some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD > implementations. > This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of this > mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. > > This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: > - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. > - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. > > -- Jeff > > --000000000000891ad605ad0045c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hello Authors,
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I read the document and I= do have some=C2=A0questions.


    In se= ction 1 text below

    "When using BFD echo function, it is not clear = whether the devices using ec= ho function need to support the full BFD procotol, including maintaining the state machine of BFD session as described in = [RFC5880] and [RFC588= 1]. According to different understanding, there=C2=A0are two typical scena= rios as below:"

    I think RFC 5880 section 6.4 "The Echo Function and Asymmetry" clearly calls out BFD echo= function is negotiated and also it suggests to keep BFD state machine on b= oth ends with a sedated interval. So not sure why you mention it is not cle= ar in RFC 5880.

    =
    Secondly if we do no= t need BFD async then it need not be BFD echo it can be any packet which is= has destination IP set to self IP can do that job isn't it?

    Thanks
    Santosh P K



    On Tue, = Aug 4, 2020 at 6:34 PM Jeffrey Haas <j= haas@pfrc.org> wrote:
    Working Group,

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra= ft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/

    At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented.=C2= =A0 This
    is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106.

    The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by the=
    BFD WG.=C2=A0 This begins the adoption call ending August 16.=C2=A0 Please = respond to
    the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption.

    It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband Forum<= br> (BBF) document TR-146.=C2=A0 As noted in the presentation, the BBF document= lacks
    some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD implementat= ions.
    This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of this mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used.

    This raises two points to consider as part of adoption:
    - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880.
    - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard.

    -- Jeff

    --000000000000891ad605ad0045c0-- From nobody Sun Aug 16 23:07:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0D53A09C3 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:07:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mmNTZ61icrZ0 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07823A09C1 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.13]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app09-12009 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee95f3a1ea6428-971f9; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 14:07:34 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee95f3a1ea6428-971f9 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc (unknown[10.2.53.197]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr07-12007 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee75f3a1ea4633-80306; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 14:07:34 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee75f3a1ea4633-80306 From: "Weiqiang Cheng" To: "'Santosh P K'" , "'Jeffrey Haas'" Cc: "'rtg-bfd WG'" References: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 14:07:33 +0800 Message-ID: <016f01d6745c$b2de88b0$189b9a10$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0170_01D6749F.C101C8B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdZz4ZPjLs6GyDRfQumfp4AbfjP8owAevYBA Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 06:07:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0170_01D6749F.C101C8B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Santosh, Thanks for your review and good questions. Please see inline responses with . Best Regards, Weiqiang =20 =20 =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Santosh P K =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5 = 23:26 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Jeffrey Haas =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: rtg-bfd WG =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo = (ending 16 August, 2020) =20 Hello Authors, I read the document and I do have some questions. =20 In section 1 text below =20 "When using BFD echo function, it is not clear whether the devices using = echo function need to support the full BFD procotol, including = maintaining the state machine of BFD session as described in [RFC5880] = and [RFC5881]. According to different understanding, there are two = typical scenarios as below:" =20 I think RFC 5880 section 6.4 "The Echo Function and Asymmetry" clearly = calls out BFD echo function is negotiated and also it suggests to keep = BFD state machine on both ends with a sedated interval. So not sure why = you mention it is not clear in RFC 5880.=20 This draft would update RFC 5880, in other words, some text = in RFC 5880 would not apply to unaffiliated BFD echo function. =20 Secondly if we do not need BFD async then it need not be BFD echo it can = be any packet which is has destination IP set to self IP can do that job = isn't it?=20 In this draft, unaffiliated BFD Echo Function is defined as = that the local system needs to support BFD protocol. If both the local = system and the neighboring system don't support BFD, then it's outside = the scope of this draft. =20 Thanks Santosh P K=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:34 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: Working Group, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. = This is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by = the BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond = to the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband = Forum (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document = lacks some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD = implementations. This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of = this mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. -- Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0170_01D6749F.C101C8B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi = Santosh,

    Thanks for = your review and good questions.

    Please see inline responses with = <Weiqiang>.

    Best = Regards,

    Weiqiang=

     

     

    =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 = Santosh P = K
    =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5 23:26
    =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Jeffrey = Haas
    =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: rtg-bfd WG
    =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: Adoption call for = draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, = 2020)

     

    Hello = Authors,

        I read the document and I do have = some questions.

     

    In section 1 text below

     

    "When using BFD echo function, it is not clear = whether the devices using echo = function need to support the full BFD = procotol, including maintaining the = state machine of BFD session as = described in [RFC5880] and [RFC5881]. According to different = understanding, there are two typical scenarios as = below:"

     

    I think = RFC 5880 section 6.4 "The Echo Function = and Asymmetry" clearly calls out BFD echo function is = negotiated and also it suggests to keep BFD state machine on both ends = with a sedated interval. So not sure why you mention it is not clear in = RFC 5880.

    <Weiqiang> = This draft would update RFC 5880, in other words, some text in RFC 5880 = would not apply to unaffiliated BFD echo = function.

     

    Secondly = if we do not need BFD async then it need not be BFD echo it can be any = packet which is has destination IP set to self IP can do that job isn't = it?

    <Weiqiang> In this = draft, unaffiliated BFD Echo Function is defined as that the local = system needs to support BFD protocol. If both the local system and the = neighboring system don't support BFD, then it's outside the scope of = this draft.

     

    Thanks

    Santosh P K

     

     

     

     

    On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 6:34 PM = Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> = wrote:

    Working = Group,

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffilia= ted-echo/

    At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo = Function was presented.  This
    is a followup of a presentation = given at IETF 106.

    The authors have indicated they would like to = have this work adopted by the
    BFD WG.  This begins the adoption = call ending August 16.  Please respond to
    the mailing list with = your thoughts on this adoption.

    It should be noted that this = document overlaps work in the Broadband Forum
    (BBF) document = TR-146.  As noted in the presentation, the BBF document = lacks
    some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD = implementations.
    This draft has good clarifications with regard to = implementations of this
    mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable = implementation is used.

    This raises two points to consider as = part of adoption:
    - This document with its current goals would Update = RFC 5880.
    - The status of this document would need to be Proposed = Standard.

    -- = Jeff

    ------=_NextPart_000_0170_01D6749F.C101C8B0-- From nobody Mon Aug 17 00:35:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECFE53A13D9; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 00:35:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IdMDIy4E88v9; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 00:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD283A03FC; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 00:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.3]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app04-12004 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee45f3a331a5d4-9aea2; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 15:34:51 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee45f3a331a5d4-9aea2 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from DESKTOPREBAVM3 (unknown[10.2.52.91]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee25f3a33173da-90482; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 15:34:51 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee25f3a33173da-90482 From: "wangruixue" To: , References: <03dc01d66f26$b1891600$149b4200$@com> In-Reply-To: Subject: =?gb2312?B?16q3ojogQWRvcHRpb24gY2FsbCBmb3IgZHJhZnQtY3ctYmZkLXVuYQ==?= =?gb2312?B?ZmZpbGlhdGVkLWVjaG8gKGVuZGluZyAxNiBBdWd1c3QsIDIwMjAp?= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 15:34:51 +0800 Message-ID: <000201d67468$e4f3c4d0$aedb4e70$@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQMgHEk2cUclfrVN4T56wa/N8azm/6agq00QgAfttGA= Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 07:35:21 -0000 Hi I support the adoption of this draft as a co-editor Thanks, Ruixue Wang -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED Jeffrey Haas =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2020=C4=EA8=D4=C24=C8=D5 21:16 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: rtg-bfd@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending = 16 August, 2020) Working Group, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. = This is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by = the BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond = to the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband = Forum (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document = lacks some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD = implementations. This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of = this mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. -- Jeff From nobody Mon Aug 17 13:29:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3EA3A10B1 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:29:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N9nYE6Q7rEK3 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EED3A10A7 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 344521E2FB; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:41:49 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: FWD: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) Message-ID: <20200817204149.GB1696@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:29:55 -0000 I requested additional internal review from my colleagues who work on Juniper's BFD implementation. Please find his comments attached. -- Jeff -------------------------------8<--- cut here --->8-------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:11:05 -0400 From: Raj Chetan Boddireddy Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) > On Aug 5, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Raj Chetan Boddireddy wrote: > > Hi Jeff, > > Please find comments below: > > > o When BFD is used to keep track of the "liveness" of the nexthop of > > static routes. Although only one side may need the BFD > > functionality, currently both sides need to be involved in > > specific configuration and coordination and in some cases static > > routes are created unnecessarily just for BFD. > (1) Unsolicited BFD may not be desired since we end-up running BFD detection timers on both peers and ideal mechanism for this case would require running detect timers only on the device tracking nexthop of the static route and trigger the necessary repair when this fails. SBFD seems more apt for this case. > > When the passive side receives a BFD Control packet from the active > > side with 0 as the "remote-discriminator", and it does not find an > > existing session with the same source address as in the packet and > > "unsolicited BFD" is allowed on the interface by local policy, it > > SHOULD then create a matching BFD session toward the active side > (2) Linklocal and unnumbers address can be spread across multiple interfaces, existing session must be looked with both source-address and interface id to uniquely identify a session IMO. > > > > procedure for bringing up, maintaining and tearing down the BFD > > session. If the BFD session fails to get established within certain > > specified time, or if an established BFD session goes down, the > > passive side would stop sending BFD Control packets and delete the > > BFD session created until the BFD Control packets is initiated by the > > active side again. > (3) We could infer that a system participating in a passive role may also seize sending BFD Down packets after the session transitions out of Up state. In which case, the benefit of detecting one-way failures sooner will be lost. If we could send only a select few packets to notify the peer of this transition and we may need to wait for a predetermined duration during teardown. New passive BFD session can be spawned only after this teardown duration has expired. > > > > The "Passive role" may change to the "Active role" when a local > > client registers for the same BFD session, and from the "Active role > > " to the "Passive role " when there is no longer any locally > > registered client for the BFD session. > (4) When IGP protocol unsubscribes to a BFD session (in the presence of unsolicited passive mode config), shouldn’t we handle this as an AdminDown? Having a passive role may prevent this. > If the sessions transitions to a passive role, then we may create a scenario where both end-points for the BFD session take the passive role. > Ex: > -R0 (IGP + Passive BFD) Active-role  R1 (IGP + Passive BFD) Active-role > -R0 (Passive BFD) Passive-role  R1 (IGP + Passive BFD) Active-role > At this point ideally we need R0 to send AdminDown to R1 which may not be the case if it transitions to Passive role. > > -R0 (Passive BFD) Passive-role  R1 (Passive BFD) Passive-role > Furthermore both R0 and R1 may assume passive role and the session may lie in this state until it flaps. > > > > o Limit the feature to specific interfaces, and to a single-hop BFD > > with "TTL=255" [RFC5082]. In addition make sure the source > > address of an incoming BFD packet belongs to the subnet of the > > interface from which the BFD packet is received. > (5) Restricting this feature only to interfaces with matching subnet will restrict this feature for unnumbered interfaces and link-local addresses. > > Thanks & Regards, > Raj Chetan > -------------------------------8<--- cut here --->8-------------------------- From nobody Mon Aug 17 13:33:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C007E3A10D3 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:33:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4UXYrlG1e-K6 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8639B3A10BA for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 563EB1E2FB; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:45:11 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) Message-ID: <20200817204510.GC1696@pfrc.org> References: <20200804132122.GC31729@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200804132122.GC31729@pfrc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:33:17 -0000 On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Working Group, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/ > > With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is past due > for Working Group Last Call. The primary holdup on the document had been > last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its impact on the > BFD Yang model. That work had completed some time ago. (The Yang model, > however, is still lingering in MISREF state.) > > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August. The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Raj that should be addressed before we continue. It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we advance this document. -- Jeff From nobody Mon Aug 17 13:38:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F2CF3A10F4 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:38:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EWoq2iFuSKeN for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB57B3A10E9 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 147801E2FB; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:50:46 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: Adoption call for draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo (ending 16 August, 2020) Message-ID: <20200817205046.GD1696@pfrc.org> References: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200804131549.GA31729@pfrc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:38:49 -0000 Authors, We seem to have pretty clear consensus that this work is useful and should be adopted by the BFD Working Group. Please re-submit the document as draft-ietf-bfd-unaffiliated-echo. There's also the start of good discussion on issues in the document. Please continue to address those. -- Jeff On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:15:49AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Working Group, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cw-bfd-unaffiliated-echo/ > > At the virtual IETF 108, Unaffiliated BFD Echo Function was presented. This > is a followup of a presentation given at IETF 106. > > The authors have indicated they would like to have this work adopted by the > BFD WG. This begins the adoption call ending August 16. Please respond to > the mailing list with your thoughts on this adoption. > > It should be noted that this document overlaps work in the Broadband Forum > (BBF) document TR-146. As noted in the presentation, the BBF document lacks > some clarity and also doesn't discuss interactions with BFD implementations. > This draft has good clarifications with regard to implementations of this > mechanism when the a BFD Echo-capable implementation is used. > > This raises two points to consider as part of adoption: > - This document with its current goals would Update RFC 5880. > - The status of this document would need to be Proposed Standard. > > -- Jeff From nobody Mon Aug 17 20:36:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAE13A16F7 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:36:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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As I stated almost 2 years ago when this draft was introduced: a)The problem the draft is addressing is real and the solution useful b)There are implementations which have already addressed this problem with = no interoperability issues c)I do not see that any changes have been made to the BFD protocol (e.g. RF= C 5881) Therefore, I think this should go forward - but as Informational. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Rtg-bfd On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM > To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (endi= ng 16 > August, 2020) >=20 > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > Working Group, > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/ > > > > With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is past= due > > for Working Group Last Call. The primary holdup on the document had > been > > last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its impact o= n the > > BFD Yang model. That work had completed some time ago. (The Yang > model, > > however, is still lingering in MISREF state.) > > > > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August. >=20 > The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Raj that > should be addressed before we continue. >=20 > It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we advance > this document. >=20 > -- Jeff From nobody Mon Aug 17 20:44:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABB5F3A16F0 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:44:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XVNs-gQkaECw for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com (mail-pf1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 207863A16F7 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x433.google.com with SMTP id x25so9293343pff.4 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:44:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=gTFnUe1TmYgh5YtYsDRTTdPSkze8F74mQ0Cv59uSol0=; b=S1R4bEvroISp572TrNok1pH6GCLevtXai3TWUUNgrp85KB9wEQh8sE6u9Ps54B6HyL fquodmUaT3lL04n2Yt70KX1/pP0gJDqNgT6R1DuUdbTBJ2tkpEqeZkZawEZsH9haFIKI iQ0qLSYYB6nwTj65iL15YUWu0SO0r21833NhPEWAmwwxOOCHPm4xzh8UKWsofmqwh+js Zv7RtcR8EKvj3cX/ov8SBUvj50ghmPMPjXhcygJF0sT5cEIpOj32UnQxcrHbhDd/Gkvl 62+kcQeOvl4aXLcqHy+0JSnILRobJWg0VdICUfICy6t1J847s414YIe/5wydPnvrb4EO hkYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=gTFnUe1TmYgh5YtYsDRTTdPSkze8F74mQ0Cv59uSol0=; b=X816xOzo1I+Fb+hb8ByJi21211s2mNuVJpsfdSOKserrXVOgYhjA+yecLR3ZFp5dFO FuAmxRgGeB2yKVC+KpMN1mK1OnUwESQrWUGoBn3XYf/0aE2ZRbQUXDdmGlGJffMKp+ui 2K0Y6gLbaP3PTHLX7pWj68MOFUC8DJ2/++0ktpmfJZSKKgamr2yvT5uiOixi/eBbw/Xb uLBr2KfoMYOGGyr7NbQ3YVR3KgXdW4vv0j6Yvf5YewzPoai+DvmvL5Ol8St1GgpYItdG n3uH3dC3nEr8gQgFTTudbcV76GwvHKQO67YS3FNE4mPuQJJI8hbvIWcvTeoJ7E5ZkHiJ FbhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531rL27WdXARmpZBXKYUdzH4OXs94Jv5X8wIb1dYffto8bsV2hbe kET6vY04v08fHM1IA3ZY6NMlhnnZf34= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzeIGh5aoqWRQdkkXvcEtSSiSha0tOJoaVJOjBjj5AFYqk7L7CJhoMVAfoB2sdDwDXNoPiJkg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:4c11:: with SMTP id z17mr11795465pga.152.1597722287516; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (c-73-63-232-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.63.232.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t25sm22883267pfl.198.2020.08.17.20.44.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:44:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Jeff Tantsura Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:44:44 -0700 Message-Id: <118F68D1-8881-4856-9C18-8780CEA01B94@gmail.com> References: Cc: Jeffrey Haas , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17G68) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 03:44:50 -0000 I support this document with exactly same points Les=E2=80=99s made, it shou= ld progress as informational. Regards, Jeff > On Aug 17, 2020, at 20:36, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFSorry to be tardy in responding... >=20 > As I stated almost 2 years ago when this draft was introduced: >=20 > a)The problem the draft is addressing is real and the solution useful >=20 > b)There are implementations which have already addressed this problem with= no interoperability issues >=20 > c)I do not see that any changes have been made to the BFD protocol (e.g. R= FC 5881) >=20 > Therefore, I think this should go forward - but as Informational. >=20 > Les >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rtg-bfd On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas >> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM >> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (endi= ng 16 >> August, 2020) >>=20 >>> On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >>> Working Group, >>>=20 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/ >>>=20 >>> With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is past d= ue >>> for Working Group Last Call. The primary holdup on the document had >> been >>> last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its impact on= the >>> BFD Yang model. That work had completed some time ago. (The Yang >> model, >>> however, is still lingering in MISREF state.) >>>=20 >>> This begins a last call period ending on 16 August. >>=20 >> The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Raj that= >> should be addressed before we continue. >>=20 >> It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we advance >> this document. >>=20 >> -- Jeff >=20 From nobody Tue Aug 18 02:43:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2853A0885 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 02:43:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fVkmB1q_vOAO for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 02:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ej1-x62a.google.com (mail-ej1-x62a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 353E83A0882 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 02:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id c16so21288801ejx.12 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 02:43:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uzaAehd98C7ss4zc48WbejGxd+AvVZ2OQ5JkTyZvfRY=; b=H3Wn3ZdIQJQLAhJ76PTK2E+j1a6TTp2ZkplwXyWPGXCOdhlhHR+DgNANUacZgUSZQ7 YFSWyp1TAOSE3yeyQFkfo8SI2g7si3uQdlDFRJ/7ATcd1tbO3jbUrSMemn2yMgJBWOpg VLGk8517WH0R+klVh7N+X6WJ1k/zhBQcJmqyY6NrhJU5STttnPVW4CP2Z8edGx+6rGHx TNc9f2inO0W4mpMxxYxSH1sxwH1ubOwuDZ/2JgkxBE/gY4nmnPHlIdzrgAJoE0SEvHlT 1hvgrLm+di4nF/TX3qpyikUgJxdQ1uX++fCwx/RTGpmiaYaTLow6qaEcCPcyjjvozHgs py+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uzaAehd98C7ss4zc48WbejGxd+AvVZ2OQ5JkTyZvfRY=; b=W05j0Y3+q1Uf5CdWMEuFlDPJKbJqBHw11r1JwhEHFkvXZuPRyO8bBPP67LtI0ex0l6 DhHxRQf9Lb3NW8u0t4xrBP9wblwA75JPgc6hQawJEYzUf17nPcEGPKv0MOTyetdaaO2X 221kCcihR1aVq4aGWQTCdC3B8l+0ORsDlEHnIdKKPsEZvQNHB1ifLRPIIW00o2f3fRyx PIt7TNrTAAMFhMkjxVXVfmbrn1AS5P3rVqOxlEiiuogg9PBj6VWIV5PQ5rozA0iM49Me hzCpCnaMtQIPwLy90uKQnpcjCNAeMSQJ73umkmEhtvaURO3Scc3vpT6MZq60HAQPiddD M8ug== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533oxUJlZixEGaiTIVaPdJ90zFTF8yZE8mDvri8wZmAQE5e2i/KD tvwLmRd7iHzxflyijnAyD9ctx1D69X9wWaGWtfeP+OfnY5s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwsQeMziOmpJigzHm3noBKWKgqlKssh8EMMp/HN0zZ2fPm8mS7YLUP/w44he8V3Qv45+eZ5k24cNo3HmY21jyQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:11dd:: with SMTP id va29mr19970484ejb.470.1597743825397; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 02:43:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200804132122.GC31729@pfrc.org> <20200817204510.GC1696@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:43:35 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: Jeffrey Haas , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000027dc6c05ad23b97f" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:43:50 -0000 --00000000000027dc6c05ad23b97f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Les, While shifting to Informational would be perhaps ok protocol wise - isn't it common practice in IETF that any draft (or at least most of them) which define a YANG model is a Standards Track document ? I hope you are not suggesting to split this one into two :). Thx, R. On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 5:36 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Sorry to be tardy in responding... > > As I stated almost 2 years ago when this draft was introduced: > > a)The problem the draft is addressing is real and the solution useful > > b)There are implementations which have already addressed this problem with > no interoperability issues > > c)I do not see that any changes have been made to the BFD protocol (e.g. > RFC 5881) > > Therefore, I think this should go forward - but as Informational. > > Les > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rtg-bfd On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM > > To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited > (ending 16 > > August, 2020) > > > > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > Working Group, > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/ > > > > > > With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is > past due > > > for Working Group Last Call. The primary holdup on the document had > > been > > > last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its impact > on the > > > BFD Yang model. That work had completed some time ago. (The Yang > > model, > > > however, is still lingering in MISREF state.) > > > > > > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August. > > > > The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Raj that > > should be addressed before we continue. > > > > It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we advance > > this document. > > > > -- Jeff > > --00000000000027dc6c05ad23b97f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Les,

    While shifting to Informational= would be perhaps ok protocol wise - isn't it common practice in IETF t= hat any draft (or at least most of them) which define a YANG model is a Sta= ndards Track document ?=C2=A0

    I hope you are not s= uggesting to split this one into two :).=C2=A0

    Thx= ,
    R.

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 5:36 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)= <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@d= marc.ietf.org> wrote:
    Sorry to be tardy in responding...

    As I stated almost 2 years ago when this draft was introduced:

    a)The problem the draft is addressing is real and the solution useful

    b)There are implementations which have already addressed this problem with = no interoperability issues

    c)I do not see that any changes have been made to the BFD protocol (e.g. RF= C 5881)

    Therefore, I think this should go forward - but as Informational.

    =C2=A0 =C2=A0Les


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas
    > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM
    > To: rtg-bfd@ietf= .org
    > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (e= nding 16
    > August, 2020)
    >
    > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
    > > Working Group,
    > >
    > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/
    > >
    > > With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document i= s past due
    > > for Working Group Last Call.=C2=A0 The primary holdup on the docu= ment had
    > been
    > > last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its im= pact on the
    > > BFD Yang model.=C2=A0 That work had completed some time ago.=C2= =A0 (The Yang
    > model,
    > > however, is still lingering in MISREF state.)
    > >
    > > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August.
    >
    > The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Raj t= hat
    > should be addressed before we continue.
    >
    > It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we a= dvance
    > this document.
    >
    > -- Jeff

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with mapi id 15.20.3305.021; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:25:55 +0000 From: tom petch To: Jeffrey Haas , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) Thread-Topic: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) Thread-Index: AQHWamCTgweL9Pphb0KzjnK69bS/XKk82diAgAFDKHU= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:25:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200804132122.GC31729@pfrc.org>, <20200817204510.GC1696@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20200817204510.GC1696@pfrc.org> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: pfrc.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;pfrc.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.148.49.170] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a8803775-2a19-4ad9-4c33-08d84393620a x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB6PR0701MB2183: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a8803775-2a19-4ad9-4c33-08d84393620a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 16:25:55.6401 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: EYDYpXTmsOhvXkqjoIi/fFle3fbYl4bkQmvohbMEE/bmMT6OGRSfukPScxz8E9rv17ljlloaJuWsWSU+BkA6hw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0701MB2183 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:26:07 -0000 From: Rtg-bfd on behalf of Jeffrey Haas =0A= Sent: 17 August 2020 21:45=0A= =0A= On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:=0A= > Working Group,=0A= >=0A= > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/=0A= >=0A= > With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is past d= ue=0A= > for Working Group Last Call. The primary holdup on the document had been= =0A= > last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its impact on = the=0A= > BFD Yang model. That work had completed some time ago. (The Yang model,= =0A= > however, is still lingering in MISREF state.)=0A= >=0A= > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August.=0A= =0A= The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Raj that= =0A= should be addressed before we continue.=0A= =0A= It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we advance=0A= this document.=0A= =0A= =0A= As an additional reviewer (I think I have the right I-D:-)=0A= =0A= The authors of the I-D have different affiliations to the editors of the YA= NG module=0A= =0A= The Abstract/Introduction make no mention of a YANG module=0A= =0A= There is no statement whether or not the module is NMDA compliant=0A= =0A= The tree diagrams would be easier to validate if there some text, two or th= ree sentences saying what they were trying to do, so that it could be check= ed whether or not the YANG does so=0A= =0A= The tree diagrams could do with a reference to the RFC that explains the sy= mbols=0A= =0A= The titles used in the references for this I-D and to a lesser extent that = of bfd-yang are not the titles I see for the I-D=0A= =0A= YANG features should have a reference=0A= =0A= revision 2019-06-26=0A= =0A= Unless and until IANA considerations register a YANG module, there is no YA= NG module=0A= =0A= security considerations mentions access control - I am unsure whether this = is access control in general or YANG NACM or both=0A= =0A= YANG Security is out of date - TLS 1.2? No way.=0A= =0A= bfd-yang is MISREF because of mpls-base-yang which has just undergone a sig= nificant revision on the penultimate day of IETF Last Cal; probably ok but = I plan to check later this week i.e. I advise not rushing into publication = just yet=0A= =0A= Tom Petchl=0A= =0A= =0A= -- Jeff=0A= =0A= =0A= From nobody Tue Aug 18 11:02:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162E93A0965 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:02:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0ThC-4rzarCy for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F2743A0B5F for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4F5641E2FB; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:14:31 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: Conclusion of the discussion on draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand? Message-ID: <20200818181430.GG1696@pfrc.org> References: <20200804003817.GA15350@pfrc.org> <20200804193427.GE31729@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20200804193427.GE31729@pfrc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:02:55 -0000 Greg, Thank you for your patience. On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 09:00:38AM -0700, Greg Mirsky wrote: > Dear All, > I much appreciate it if you can share the conclusion of the discussion of > the draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand. > > Regards, > Greg The BFD Working Group chairs and Area Director have reviewed draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand. The chairs had originally issued a working group adoption call without having read the document. Upon review, it was determined that the majority of the text in the draft mostly restated existing BFD Demand mode procedure. The chairs apologize for not having done sufficient vetting prior to starting the adoption process and causing the confusion that followed. The majority of the draft covers a re-statement of existing BFD procedure and obscures the potential request for normative protocol changes. This response is split into two sections: The first portion covers procedure that is a restatement of RFC 5880 Demand behaviors with a few possible non-intended variances. The second portion covers a potential change to BFD Demand behavior and may be reason to continue working group discussion. It's noted that a likely motivation for this draft comes from the following statement in RFC 5884, §6 "Session Establishment": # A BFD session is bootstrapped using LSP Ping. This specification # describes procedures only for BFD asynchronous mode. BFD demand mode # is outside the scope of this specification. While "outside the scope", the procedures for exercising Demand mode are covered largely in detail in RFC 5880. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the following response, ':' blockquotes are from draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand and '#' blockquotes are from the cited RFC. The text of the document and the matching procedures from RFC 5880 follow: : 3. Use of the BFD Demand Mode : : [RFC5880] defines that the Demand mode MAY be: : : o asymmetric, i.e. used in one direction of a BFD session; : : o switched to and from without bringing BFD session to Down state : through using a Poll Sequence. RFC 5880 §6 "Demand Mode" reads: # Demand mode MAY be enabled or disabled at any time, independently in # each direction, by setting or clearing the Demand (D) bit in the BFD # Control packet, without affecting the BFD session state. Note that # the Demand bit MUST NOT be set unless both systems perceive the # session to be Up (the local system thinks the session is Up, and the # remote system last reported Up state in the State (Sta) field of the # BFD Control packet). # # When the transmitted value of the Demand (D) bit is to be changed, # the transmitting system MUST initiate a Poll Sequence in conjunction # with changing the bit in order to ensure that both systems are aware # of the change. The poll sequence is defined in RFC 5880 §5 "The Poll Sequence": # A Poll Sequence consists of a system sending periodic BFD Control # packets with the Poll (P) bit set. When the other system receives a # Poll, it immediately transmits a BFD Control packet with the Final # (F) bit set, independent of any periodic BFD Control packets it may # be sending (see section 6.8.7). When the system sending the Poll # sequence receives a packet with Final, the Poll Sequence is # terminated, and any subsequent BFD Control packets are sent with the # Poll bit cleared. A BFD Control packet MUST NOT have both the Poll # (P) and Final (F) bits set. : For the case of BFD over MPLS LSP, ingress Label switching Edge : Router (LER) usually acts as Active BFD peer and egress LER acts as : Passive BFD peer. The Active peer bootstraps the BFD session by : using LSP ping. Once the BFD session is in Up state the ingress LER : that supports this specification MUST switch to the Demand mode by : setting Demand (D) bit in its Control packet and initiating a Poll : Sequence. If the egress LER supports this specification it MUST : respond with the Final (F) bit set in its BFD Control packet sent to : the ingress LER and ceases further transmission of periodic BFD : control packets to the ingress LER. The procedure above is covered by core RFC 5880 procedures as above. The one item of interest here not part of the specification is "MUST switch". Effectively, an optional procedure normally covered by configuration mode or application profile is mandated by this document. : In this state BFD peers MAY remain as long as the egress LER is in Up : state. The ingress LER MAY check liveness of the egress LER by : setting the Poll flag. The egress LER will respond by transmitting : BFD control packet with the Final flag set. If the ingress LER : doesn't receive BFD packet with the Final flag from its peer after : the predetermined period of time, default wait time recommended 1 : second, the ingress MAY transmit another packet with the Poll flag : set. If ingress doesn't receive BFD control packet with the Final : flag set in response to three consecutive packets with Poll flag, it : MAY declare the BFD peer non-responsive and change state of the BFD : session to Down state. RFC 5880 §6 "Demand Mode" further reads: # When a system in Demand mode wishes to verify bidirectional # connectivity, it initiates a Poll Sequence (see section 6.5). If no # response is received to a Poll, the Poll is repeated until the # Detection Time expires, at which point the session is declared to be # Down. Note that if Demand mode is operating only on the local # system, the Poll Sequence is performed by simply setting the Poll (P) # bit in regular periodic BFD Control packets, as required by section # 6.5. # # The Detection Time in Demand mode is calculated differently than in # Asynchronous mode; it is based on the transmit rate of the local # system, rather than the transmit rate of the remote system. This # ensures that the Poll Sequence mechanism works properly. See section # 6.8.4 for more details. # # [...] # # When the transmitted value of the Demand (D) bit is to be changed, # the transmitting system MUST initiate a Poll Sequence in conjunction # with changing the bit in order to ensure that both systems are aware # of the change. The procedure above documents how to use a poll sequence to verify liveness while in Demand mode. The calculation of the Detection time for Demand mode while undergoing a Poll sequence is referred to in §6.8.4. draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand procedure cited above, in particular the "1 second" time is a variance against the Poll sequence procedure. The "three consecutive packets" is similarly a variance against the core BFD procedures, where this is covered by the Detect Multiplier. With respect to declaring the session Down as part of a Poll sequence in Demand Mode, §6.8.4 has the following text: # If Demand mode is active, and a period of time equal to the Detection # Time passes after the initiation of a Poll Sequence (the transmission # of the first BFD Control packet with the Poll bit set), the session # has gone down -- the local system MUST set bfd.SessionState to Down, # and bfd.LocalDiag to 1 (Control Detection Time Expired). : If the Detection timer at the egress LER expires it MUST send BFD : Control packet to the ingress LER with the Poll (P) bit set, Status : (Sta) field set to Down value, and the Diagnostic (Diag) field set to : Control Detection Time Expired value. The egress LER sends these : Control packets to the ingress LER at the rate of one per second : until either it receives the valid for this BFD session control : packet with the Final (F) bit set from the ingress LER or the defect : condition clears and the BFD session state reaches Up state at the : egress LER. >From the perspective of the egress LER, standard Async BFD without Demand is still running. The following text from §6.6, "Demand Mode", applies: # If Demand mode is active on either or both systems, a Poll Sequence # MUST be initiated whenever the contents of the next BFD Control # packet to be sent would be different than the contents of the # previous packet, with the exception of the Poll (P) and Final (F) # bits. This ensures that parameter changes are transmitted to the # remote system and that the remote system acknowledges these changes. Again, the "1 second" time is a variance against RFC 5880. Prior list e-mail and IETF working group session discussion suggested that the last sentence above leads to the possible conclusion that this this is only done for "parameter changes". However, the leading sentence clearly covers "whenever the contents [...] would be different". Discussion among the chairs and the AD suggest that the last sentence is not intended to specify a normative behavior in restricting to "configuration". RFC 5880 is largely structured around the BFD PDU contents reflecting the "State Variables" documented in §6.8.1 and similar variables in the extension documents. The "parameters" reference in §5.6 is intended to refer to such state variables as instantiatied in the PDU. : The ingress LER transmits BFD Control packets over the MPLS LSP with : the Demand (D) flag set at negotiated interval per [RFC5880], the : greater of bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval and bfd.RemoteMinRxInterval, : until it receives the valid BFD packet from the egress LER with the : Poll (P) bit and the Diagnostic (Diag) field value Control Detection : Time Expired. Reception of such BFD control packet by the ingress : LER indicates that the monitored LSP has a failure and sending BFD : control packet with the Final flag set to acknowledge failure : indication is likely to fail. Here we're just using standard BFD procedure. If the session is Up, transmit appropriately. Don't restate protocol. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This next section potentially proposes new behavior: : Instead, the ingress LER transmits the : BFD Control packet to the egress LER over the IP network with: : : o destination IP address MUST be set to the destination IP address : of the LSP Ping Echo request message [RFC8029]; : : o destination UDP port set to 4784 [RFC5883]; : : o Final (F) flag in BFD control packet MUST be set; : : o Demand (D) flag in BFD control packet MUST be cleared. : : The ingress LER changes the state of the BFD session to Down and : changes rate of BFD Control packets transmission to one packet per : second. The ingress LER in Down mode changes to Asynchronous mode : until the BFD session comes to Up state once again. Then the ingress : LER switches to the Demand mode. The behavior here covers the fact that the underlying MPLS LSP is no longer usable - the egress LSR detected a failure in the receipt of the BFD PDUs from the ingress LSR. Since Demand mode was enabled, how does the ingress LSR know that the session is Down from the perspective of the egress? The procedures documented above per RFC 5880 will have the egress initiating the Poll sequence to do the state transition. But similarly, since Demand mode is enabled, the only way for the egress LSR to know that the session has gone Down from the perspective of the ingress LSR is for it to receive the response to the Poll. Thus, the above procedure attempts to suggest reaching the egress LSR using BFD multi-hop procedures. Chairs commentary: ------------------ This procedural point is potentially worth WG discussion and potentially a motivation to advance this draft. The discussion will largely involve what existing implementations of RFC 5884 already do in circumstances where the ingress path has gone down. Even without Demand mode being active, the egress LSR will still transition to Down and signal toward the ingress LSR. And similarly, the ingress no longer has a valid forward path to carry its acknowledgement of session is in the Down state to the egress LSR. The fault observed here is really with RFC 5884 procedures rather than specifically the Demand mode. Perversely, it could be observed that in the absence of MPLS encapsulation and the use of Demand mode that the above considerations still apply: When a receiver is in Demand mode, needs to transition state, notifies the sender by changing its local state, it may not receive the acknowledgment that the sender has received and processed that state. This can lead to a similarly stale session. What we thus have are two conditions wherein it's not possible to fully clean up a BFD session that has locally determined it is Down. Existing implementations must already deal with this in some fashion, and that discussion on the list may be fruitful. 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[73.63.232.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g129sm25529510pfb.33.2020.08.18.18.01.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:01:14 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Robert Raszuk , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , Martin Vigoureux Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?rtg-bfd=40ietf.org?=" Message-ID: <12c142a4-4bc4-4853-8a9a-e9c3056c4deb@Spark> In-Reply-To: <47FF05FC-A124-482F-9354-F9CD8644D620@cisco.com> References: <20200804132122.GC31729@pfrc.org> <20200817204510.GC1696@pfrc.org> <47FF05FC-A124-482F-9354-F9CD8644D620@cisco.com> Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) X-Readdle-Message-ID: 12c142a4-4bc4-4853-8a9a-e9c3056c4deb@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5f3c79e3_180115be_65d7" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 01:01:29 -0000 --5f3c79e3_180115be_65d7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline IMHO - It isn=E2=80=99t right that presence of YANG defines document=E2=80= =99=C2=A0=C2=A0designation track. The common practice is that if the draf= t in question doesn=E2=80=99t require any protocol changes it should aim = for Informational track (or BCP). https://ietf.org/standards/process/informational-vs-experimental/ I=E2=80=99d rather have 2 separate documents. In general, given that YANG= documents life cycle is quite different from that of protocol ones, it i= s perhaps a good practice to keep them separate. I have included Martin (Routing AD for B=46D) Cheers, Jeff On Aug 18, 2020, 4:24 AM -0700, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) , wrote: > Indeed, draft-chen-bfd-unsolicited was informational and with the addit= ion of the YANG module draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicted was changed to standards= track. > > Regards, > Reshad (no hat). > > =46rom: Rtg-bfd on behalf of Robert Raszuk= > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 5:44 AM > To: =22Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=22 > Cc: =22rtg-bfd=40ietf.org=22 > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (en= ding 16 August, 2020) > > Hi Les, > > While shifting to Informational would be perhaps ok protocol wise - isn= 't it common practice in IET=46 that any draft (or at least most of them)= which define a YANG model is a Standards Track document =3F > > I hope you are not suggesting to split this one into two :). > > Thx, > R. > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 5:36 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > quote=5Ftype > > Sorry to be tardy in responding... > > > > As I stated almost 2 years ago when this draft was introduced: > > > > a)The problem the draft is addressing is real and the solution useful= > > > > b)There are implementations which have already addressed this problem= with no interoperability issues > > > > c)I do not see that any changes have been made to the B=46D protocol = (e.g. R=46C 5881) > > > > Therefore, I think this should go forward - but as Informational. > > > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0Les > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > =46rom: Rtg-bfd On Behalf Of Jeffrey H= aas > > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM > > > To: rtg-bfd=40ietf..org > > > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited= (ending 16 > > > August, 2020) > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > > Working Group, > > > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/ > > > > > > > > With apologies to the authors of B=46D unsolicited, this document= is past due > > > > for Working Group Last Call.=C2=A0 The primary holdup on the docu= ment had > > > been > > > > last minute interaction with the R=46C Editor with regard to its = impact on the > > > > B=46D Yang model.=C2=A0 That work had completed some time ago.=C2= =A0 (The Yang > > > model, > > > > however, is still lingering in MISRE=46 state.) > > > > > > > > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August. > > > > > > The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Ra= j that > > > should be addressed before we continue. > > > > > > It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we ad= vance > > > this document. > > > > > > -- Jeff --5f3c79e3_180115be_65d7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
    IMHO - It isn=E2=80=99t right that presence of YANG= defines document=E2=80=99&=23160;&=23160;designation track. The common p= ractice is that if the draft in question doesn=E2=80=99t require any prot= ocol changes it should aim for Informational track (or BCP).&=23160;
    https://ietf.org/standards/process/infor= mational-vs-experimental/

    I=E2=80=99d rather have 2 separate documents. In general, given that YANG= documents life cycle is quite different from that of protocol ones, it i= s perhaps a good practice to keep them separate.&=23160;
    I have included Martin (Routing AD for B=46D)

    Cheers,
    Jeff
    On Aug 18, 2020, 4:24 AM -0700, Res= had Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman=3D40cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org>, wrot= e:

    Indeed, draft-= chen-bfd-unsolicited was informational and with the addition of the YANG = module draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicted was changed to standards track.

    &=23160;

    Regards,

    Reshad (no hat= ).

    &=23160;

    =46rom: Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces=40ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk &l= t;robert=40raszuk.net>
    Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 5:44 AM
    To: =22Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=22 <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com=40dma= rc.ietf.org>
    Cc: =22rtg-bfd=40ietf.org=22 <rtg-bfd=40ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicite= d (ending 16 August, 2020)

    &=23160;

    Hi Les,

    &=23160;

    While shifting to Informational would be perha= ps ok protocol wise - isn't it common practice in IET=46 that any draft (= or at least most of them) which define a YANG model is a Standards Track = document =3F&=23160;

    &=23160;

    I hope you are not suggesting to split this on= e into two :).&=23160;

    &=23160;

    Thx,

    R.

    &=23160;

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 5:36 AM Les Ginsberg (= ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

    Sorry to be= tardy in responding...

    As I stated almost 2 years ago when this draft was introduced:

    a)The problem the draft is addressing is real and the solution useful

    b)There are implementations which have already addressed this problem wit= h no interoperability issues

    c)I do not see that any changes have been made to the B=46D protocol (e.g= . R=46C 5881)

    Therefore, I think this should go forward - but as Informational.

    &=23160; &=23160;Les


    > -----Original Message-----
    > =46rom: Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces=40ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Jeffrey Haas
    > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM
    > To: rtg-bfd=40ietf..org
    > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited = (ending 16
    > August, 2020)
    >
    > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
    > > Working Group,
    > >
    > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/
    > >
    > > With apologies to the authors of B=46D unsolicited, this docume= nt is past due
    > > for Working Group Last Call.&=23160; The primary holdup on the = document had
    > been
    > > last minute interaction with the R=46C Editor with regard to it= s impact on the
    > > B=46D Yang model.&=23160; That work had completed some time ago= .&=23160; (The Yang
    > model,
    > > however, is still lingering in MISRE=46 state.)
    > >
    > > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August.
    >
    > The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Raj= that
    > should be addressed before we continue.
    >
    > It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we adv= ance
    > this document.
    >
    > -- Jeff

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[73.63.232.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k23sm23176323pgb.92.2020.08.18.20.08.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-C72A0C7B-E4C1-417B-BB9C-9054A6B01D07 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Tantsura Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (ending 16 August, 2020) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:08:45 -0700 Message-Id: References: Cc: Robert Raszuk , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , Martin Vigoureux , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17G68) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 03:08:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail-C72A0C7B-E4C1-417B-BB9C-9054A6B01D07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An informational document that also has a management/YANG part included wou= ld IMHO be the right outcome. Regards, Jeff > On Aug 18, 2020, at 19:38, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wro= te: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi Jeff and Les, > =20 > In general I prefer to have the 2 together (here=E2=80=99s the protocol d= etails and here=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s managed), IMHO there=E2=80=99s be= nefit in having the 2 together since the YANG discussions are happening whil= e we=E2=80=99re in the thick of the protocol discussions. I am actually not k= een to end up with 2 docs, RFC XXX and RFC YYYY: YANG for XXXX with 2 differ= ent lifecycles, by the time the YANG is done people aren=E2=80=99t intereste= d anymore because the protocol spec is done. I brought this up some time ag= o with RTG AD and OPS AD, but I don=E2=80=99t think there was any conclusion= . > =20 > In this specific case, I agree that there=E2=80=99s no protocol changes. S= o with 2 documents, are you proposing that the BFD spec should be informatio= nal and the YANG standards track? Or both informational? If it=E2=80=99s the= latter, I=E2=80=99d rather they be in the same doc. > =20 > Regards, > Reshad ( no hat). > From: Jeff Tantsura > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 9:01 PM > To: Robert Raszuk , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , Martin Vigoureux= > Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (endin= g 16 August, 2020) > =20 > IMHO - It isn=E2=80=99t right that presence of YANG defines document=E2=80= =99 designation track. The common practice is that if the draft in question= doesn=E2=80=99t require any protocol changes it should aim for Informationa= l track (or BCP).=20 > https://ietf.org/standards/process/informational-vs-experimental/ >=20 > I=E2=80=99d rather have 2 separate documents. In general, given that YANG d= ocuments life cycle is quite different from that of protocol ones, it is per= haps a good practice to keep them separate.=20 > I have included Martin (Routing AD for BFD) > =20 > Cheers, > Jeff > On Aug 18, 2020, 4:24 AM -0700, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) , wrote: >=20 > Indeed, draft-chen-bfd-unsolicited was informational and with the addition= of the YANG module draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicted was changed to standards track= . > =20 > Regards, > Reshad (no hat). > =20 > From: Rtg-bfd on behalf of Robert Raszuk > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 5:44 AM > To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" > Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (endin= g 16 August, 2020) > =20 > Hi Les, > =20 > While shifting to Informational would be perhaps ok protocol wise - isn't i= t common practice in IETF that any draft (or at least most of them) which de= fine a YANG model is a Standards Track document ?=20 > =20 > I hope you are not suggesting to split this one into two :).=20 > =20 > Thx, > R. > =20 > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 5:36 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Sorry to be tardy in responding... >=20 > As I stated almost 2 years ago when this draft was introduced: >=20 > a)The problem the draft is addressing is real and the solution useful >=20 > b)There are implementations which have already addressed this problem with= no interoperability issues >=20 > c)I do not see that any changes have been made to the BFD protocol (e.g.. R= FC 5881) >=20 > Therefore, I think this should go forward - but as Informational. >=20 > Les >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rtg-bfd On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM > > To: rtg-bfd@ietf..org > > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (end= ing 16 > > August, 2020) > > > > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > Working Group, > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/ > > > > > > With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is pas= t due > > > for Working Group Last Call. The primary holdup on the document had > > been > > > last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its impact o= n the > > > BFD Yang model. That work had completed some time ago.. (The Yang > > model, > > > however, is still lingering in MISREF state.) > > > > > > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August. > > > > The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Raj tha= t > > should be addressed before we continue. > > > > It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we advance= > > this document. > > > > -- Jeff --Apple-Mail-C72A0C7B-E4C1-417B-BB9C-9054A6B01D07 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An informational document that also has a &= nbsp;management/YANG part included would IMHO be the right outcome.

    <= div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,
    Jeff

    On Aug 18, 2020, at 19:38, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahm= an@cisco.com> wrote:

    =
    =EF=BB=BF

    Hi Jeff and Les,

     

    In general I  prefer to hav= e the 2 together (here=E2=80=99s the protocol details and here=E2=80=99s how= it=E2=80=99s managed), IMHO there=E2=80=99s benefit in having the 2 togethe= r since the YANG discussions are happening while we=E2=80=99re in the thick o= f the protocol discussions. I am actually not keen to end up with 2 docs, RFC= XXX and RFC YYYY: YANG for XXXX with 2 different lifecycles, by the time th= e YANG is done people aren=E2=80=99t interested anymore because the protocol= spec is done.  I brought this up some time ago with RTG AD and OPS AD, but I don=E2=80=99t think there was any co= nclusion.

     

    In this specific case, I agree t= hat there=E2=80=99s no protocol changes. So with 2 documents, are you propos= ing that the BFD spec should be informational and the YANG standards track? O= r both informational? If it=E2=80=99s the latter, I=E2=80=99d rather they be in the same doc.

     

    Regards,

    Reshad ( no hat).

    From:= Jeff Tantsura <j= efftant.ietf@gmail.com>
    Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 9:01 PM
    To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)= " <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.co= m>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>
    Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (= ending 16 August, 2020)

     

    IMHO - It isn=E2=80=99t right that presence of YANG d= efines document=E2=80=99  designation track. The common practice i= s that if the draft in question doesn=E2=80=99t require any protocol changes= it should aim for Informational track (or BCP). 
    https://ietf.org/standards/process/informational-vs-expe= rimental/

    I=E2=80=99d rather have 2 separate documents. In general, given that YANG do= cuments life cycle is quite different from that of protocol ones, it is perh= aps a good practice to keep them separate. 
    I have included Martin (Routing AD for BFD)

     

    Cheers,

    Jeff

    On Aug 18, 2020, 4:24 AM -0700, Reshad Rahman (rrahma= n) <rrahman=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote:

    Indeed, draft-chen-bfd-unsolicited was i= nformational and with the addition of the YANG module draft-ietf-bfd-unsolic= ted was changed to standards track.

     

    Regards,

    Reshad (no hat).

     

    From: Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@iet= f.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
    Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 5:44 AM
    To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o= rg>
    Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (= ending 16 August, 2020)

     

    Hi Les,

     

    While shifting to Informational would be perhaps ok protocol wise - i= sn't it common practice in IETF that any draft (or at least most of them) wh= ich define a YANG model is a Standards Track document ? 

     

    I hope you are not suggesting to split this one into two :). 

     

    Thx,

    R.

     

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 5:36 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg= =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<= /a>> wrote:

    Sorry to be tardy in responding...

    As I stated almost 2 years ago when this draft was introduced:

    a)The problem the draft is addressing is real and the solution useful

    b)There are implementations which have already addressed this problem with n= o interoperability issues

    c)I do not see that any changes have been made to the BFD protocol (e.g.. RFC= 5881)

    Therefore, I think this should go forward - but as Informational.

       Les


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Rtg-bfd <    rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas
    > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM
    > To: rtg-bfd@ietf.= .org
    > Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited (en= ding 16
    > August, 2020)
    >
    > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:21:22AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
    > > Working Group,
    > >
    > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-unsolicited/
    > >
    > > With apologies to the authors of BFD unsolicited, this document is= past due
    > > for Working Group Last Call.  The primary holdup on the docum= ent had
    > been
    > > last minute interaction with the RFC Editor with regard to its imp= act on the
    > > BFD Yang model.  That work had completed some time ago.. = ; (The Yang
    > model,
    > > however, is still lingering in MISREF state.)
    > >
    > > This begins a last call period ending on 16 August.
    >
    > The last call period has ended with a few comments from Greg and Raj th= at
    > should be addressed before we continue.
    >
    > It'd also be helpful to hear from additional reviewers before we advanc= e
    > this document.
    >
    > -- Jeff

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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 5f9ik8AbDpIG90rhpok/1ZMM6cM8edXX5TbNUk9Jz9Hn9iXDJCGcJzI/yC/C9TUqp29Ksdk9ALkIOE2vgHny4g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4538 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:32:52 -0000 Yes bfd-yang. Sometimes I would like to be wrong. When I look at this I-D, I see that it references /rt:routing/mpls:mpls/mpls:interface/mpls:config/mpls:enabled In 2018, the MPLS WG removed that /config from the mpls-base-yang so this would seem to be no longer valid. What needs changing to rectify this I have not explored. The I-D has augment "/te:te/te:lsps-state/te:lsp" which I no longer see in draft-ietf-teas-yang-te - the -state has gone. Again, I have not explored the ramifications of this. MPLS WG has a new base-yang out this week which differentiates between an IP route with a MPLS next hop and a MPLS route with no IP, the latter forming a new, mpls Address Family. I would think that the latter is not catered for by BFD but it would be nice to be wrong Tom Petch From nobody Thu Aug 20 10:42:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1FB33A0E15; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 10:42:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=ZUwppznk; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=m0GgYJID Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kPKr2MSQJGnr; 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Thu, 20 Aug 2020 17:42:08 +0000 From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" To: t petch , Jeffrey Haas CC: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bfd-yang-17.txt Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bfd-yang-17.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdw+TPIsP6V3al0CA6Uz1ZU3LhKlBAUYA Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 17:42:08 +0000 Message-ID: <6D3A9C62-D1FA-4382-B253-9CBC7BEAFD69@cisco.com> References: <773E4FFC-D66A-49E5-A03A-58B7DBA82D90@gmail.com> <20170731170550.GO24942@pfrc.org> <3637B198-8F82-4A85-A4A1-4383AF98088D@pfrc.org> <20170801144129.GC24942@pfrc.org> <20170801163340.GD24942@pfrc.org> <5F3EA5A8.1050202@btconnect.com> In-Reply-To: <5F3EA5A8.1050202@btconnect.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.37.20051002 authentication-results: btconnect.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;btconnect.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [70.30.102.119] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 76e424aa-9f06-4790-1a5e-08d845305cb5 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN6PR11MB1811: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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Thu, 20 Aug 2020 19:00:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200804003817.GA15350@pfrc.org> <20200804193427.GE31729@pfrc.org> <20200818181430.GG1696@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20200818181430.GG1696@pfrc.org> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 19:00:44 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Conclusion of the discussion on draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand? To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="00000000000083ffe805ad599b21" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 20:26:03 -0700 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:01:03 -0000 --00000000000083ffe805ad599b21 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000083ffe605ad599b1f" --00000000000083ffe605ad599b1f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeff, et al., thank you for your thorough review and the most detailed comments, all is greatly appreciated. Please find my notes in-lined and tagged by GIM>>. I've updated the draft and you can review the updates in the attached diff. I much appreciate comments on the updates. Regards, Greg On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:03 AM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Greg, > > Thank you for your patience. > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 09:00:38AM -0700, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > Dear All, > > I much appreciate it if you can share the conclusion of the discussion = of > > the draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > The BFD Working Group chairs and Area Director have reviewed > draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand. The chairs had originally issued a working > group > adoption call without having read the document. Upon review, it was > determined that the majority of the text in the draft mostly restated > existing BFD Demand mode procedure. > > The chairs apologize for not having done sufficient vetting prior to > starting the adoption process and causing the confusion that followed. > > The majority of the draft covers a re-statement of existing BFD procedure > and obscures the potential request for normative protocol changes. This > response is split into two sections: The first portion covers procedure > that > is a restatement of RFC 5880 Demand behaviors with a few possible > non-intended variances. The second portion covers a potential change to > BFD Demand behavior and may be reason to continue working group discussio= n. > > It's noted that a likely motivation for this draft comes from the followi= ng > statement in RFC 5884, =C2=A76 "Session Establishment": > > # A BFD session is bootstrapped using LSP Ping. This specification > # describes procedures only for BFD asynchronous mode. BFD demand > mode > # is outside the scope of this specification. > > While "outside the scope", the procedures for exercising Demand mode are > covered largely in detail in RFC 5880. > GIM>> I agree that the Demand mode is defined in RFC 5880. draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand is intended to discuss the applicability of BFD in Demand over the MPLS LSP. The updates to the draft are to remove unnecessary re-statements of RFC 5880 by providing references to, primarily, Section 6.6 of RFC 5880. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > In the following response, ':' blockquotes are from > draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand and '#' blockquotes are from the cited RFC. > > The text of the document and the matching procedures from RFC 5880 follow= : > > : 3. Use of the BFD Demand Mode > : > : [RFC5880] defines that the Demand mode MAY be: > : > : o asymmetric, i.e. used in one direction of a BFD session; > : > : o switched to and from without bringing BFD session to Down state > : through using a Poll Sequence. > > RFC 5880 =C2=A76 "Demand Mode" reads: > # Demand mode MAY be enabled or disabled at any time, independently > in > # each direction, by setting or clearing the Demand (D) bit in the > BFD > # Control packet, without affecting the BFD session state. Note th= at > # the Demand bit MUST NOT be set unless both systems perceive the > # session to be Up (the local system thinks the session is Up, and > the > # remote system last reported Up state in the State (Sta) field of > the > # BFD Control packet). > # > # When the transmitted value of the Demand (D) bit is to be changed= , > # the transmitting system MUST initiate a Poll Sequence in > conjunction > # with changing the bit in order to ensure that both systems are > aware > # of the change. > > The poll sequence is defined in RFC 5880 =C2=A75 "The Poll Sequence": > # A Poll Sequence consists of a system sending periodic BFD Control > # packets with the Poll (P) bit set. When the other system receive= s > a > # Poll, it immediately transmits a BFD Control packet with the Fina= l > # (F) bit set, independent of any periodic BFD Control packets it m= ay > # be sending (see section 6.8.7). When the system sending the Poll > # sequence receives a packet with Final, the Poll Sequence is > # terminated, and any subsequent BFD Control packets are sent with > the > # Poll bit cleared. A BFD Control packet MUST NOT have both the Po= ll > # (P) and Final (F) bits set. > > : For the case of BFD over MPLS LSP, ingress Label switching Edge > : Router (LER) usually acts as Active BFD peer and egress LER acts as > : Passive BFD peer. The Active peer bootstraps the BFD session by > : using LSP ping. Once the BFD session is in Up state the ingress LER > : that supports this specification MUST switch to the Demand mode by > : setting Demand (D) bit in its Control packet and initiating a Poll > : Sequence. If the egress LER supports this specification it MUST > : respond with the Final (F) bit set in its BFD Control packet sent to > : the ingress LER and ceases further transmission of periodic BFD > : control packets to the ingress LER. > > The procedure above is covered by core RFC 5880 procedures as above. The > one item of interest here not part of the specification is "MUST switch". > Effectively, an optional procedure normally covered by configuration mode > or > application profile is mandated by this document. > GIM>> Yes, it is assumed that an implementation that supports this specification will provide control to select between BFD Asynchronous (RFC 5884) and BFD Demand modes. If the latter mode selected, the use of the normative form appears appropriate. Below is the updated text: If the BFD session is configured to use the Demand mode, once the BFD session is in Up state the ingress LER MUST switch to the Demand mode as defined in Section 6.6 [RFC5880]. The egress LER also follows procedures defined in Section 6.6 [RFC5880] and ceases further transmission of periodic BFD control packets to the ingress LER. > > : In this state BFD peers MAY remain as long as the egress LER is in U= p > : state. The ingress LER MAY check liveness of the egress LER by > : setting the Poll flag. The egress LER will respond by transmitting > : BFD control packet with the Final flag set. If the ingress LER > : doesn't receive BFD packet with the Final flag from its peer after > : the predetermined period of time, default wait time recommended 1 > : second, the ingress MAY transmit another packet with the Poll flag > : set. If ingress doesn't receive BFD control packet with the Final > : flag set in response to three consecutive packets with Poll flag, it > : MAY declare the BFD peer non-responsive and change state of the BFD > : session to Down state. > > RFC 5880 =C2=A76 "Demand Mode" further reads: > # When a system in Demand mode wishes to verify bidirectional > # connectivity, it initiates a Poll Sequence (see section 6.5). If > no > # response is received to a Poll, the Poll is repeated until the > # Detection Time expires, at which point the session is declared to > be > # Down. Note that if Demand mode is operating only on the local > # system, the Poll Sequence is performed by simply setting the Poll > (P) > # bit in regular periodic BFD Control packets, as required by secti= on > # 6.5. > # > # The Detection Time in Demand mode is calculated differently than = in > # Asynchronous mode; it is based on the transmit rate of the local > # system, rather than the transmit rate of the remote system. This > # ensures that the Poll Sequence mechanism works properly. See > section > # 6.8.4 for more details. > # > # [...] > # > # When the transmitted value of the Demand (D) bit is to be changed= , > # the transmitting system MUST initiate a Poll Sequence in > conjunction > # with changing the bit in order to ensure that both systems are > aware > # of the change. > > The procedure above documents how to use a poll sequence to verify livene= ss > while in Demand mode. The calculation of the Detection time for Demand > mode > while undergoing a Poll sequence is referred to in =C2=A76.8.4. > > draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand procedure cited above, in particular the "1 > second" time is a variance against the Poll sequence procedure. > > The "three consecutive packets" is similarly a variance against the core > BFD > procedures, where this is covered by the Detect Multiplier. > GIM>> I've replaced the restatement with the reference to Section 6.6. The updated text is below: In this state BFD peers MAY remain as long as the egress LER is in Up state. The ingress LER SHOULD periodically check continuity of a bidirectional path between the ingress and egress LERs by using the Poll Sequence, as described in Section 6.6 [RFC5880]. An implementation that supports using the Poll Sequence as the mechanism for bidirectional path continuity check MUST be able to control the interval between consecutive Poll Sequences. The RECOMMENDED default value is 1 second. > > > With respect to declaring the session Down as part of a Poll sequence in > Demand Mode, =C2=A76.8.4 has the following text: > > # If Demand mode is active, and a period of time equal to the > Detection > # Time passes after the initiation of a Poll Sequence (the > transmission > # of the first BFD Control packet with the Poll bit set), the sessi= on > # has gone down -- the local system MUST set bfd.SessionState to > Down, > # and bfd.LocalDiag to 1 (Control Detection Time Expired). > > > : If the Detection timer at the egress LER expires it MUST send BFD > : Control packet to the ingress LER with the Poll (P) bit set, Status > : (Sta) field set to Down value, and the Diagnostic (Diag) field set t= o > : Control Detection Time Expired value. The egress LER sends these > : Control packets to the ingress LER at the rate of one per second > : until either it receives the valid for this BFD session control > : packet with the Final (F) bit set from the ingress LER or the defect > : condition clears and the BFD session state reaches Up state at the > : egress LER. > > >From the perspective of the egress LER, standard Async BFD without Deman= d > is > still running. The following text from =C2=A76.6, "Demand Mode", applies= : > > # If Demand mode is active on either or both systems, a Poll Sequen= ce > # MUST be initiated whenever the contents of the next BFD Control > # packet to be sent would be different than the contents of the > # previous packet, with the exception of the Poll (P) and Final (F) > # bits. This ensures that parameter changes are transmitted to the > # remote system and that the remote system acknowledges these > changes. > > Again, the "1 second" time is a variance against RFC 5880. > > Prior list e-mail and IETF working group session discussion suggested tha= t > the last sentence above leads to the possible conclusion that this this i= s > only done for "parameter changes". However, the leading sentence clearly > covers "whenever the contents [...] would be different". Discussion amon= g > the chairs and the AD suggest that the last sentence is not intended to > specify a normative behavior in restricting to "configuration". > > RFC 5880 is largely structured around the BFD PDU contents reflecting the > "State Variables" documented in =C2=A76.8.1 and similar variables in the > extension documents. The "parameters" reference in =C2=A75.6 is intended= to > refer to such state variables as instantiatied in the PDU. > GIM>> I agree that the text might be interpreted as explained in your comment. I believe that that indicates that the original text is not definitive and clarifying the procedure in draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand is helpful to implementors. I've updated this paragraph as follows: If the Detection timer at the egress LER expires it MUST send BFD Control packet to the ingress LER with the Poll (P) bit set, Status (Sta) field set to Down value, and the Diagnostic (Diag) field set to Control Detection Time Expired value. The egress LER periodically transmits these Control packets to the ingress LER until either it receives the valid for this BFD session control packet with the Final (F) bit set from the ingress LER or the defect condition clears and the BFD session state reaches Up state at the egress LER. An implementation that supports this specification MUST provide control of the interval between consecutive Poll messages signaling the expiration of the Detection timer. The RECOMMENDED default value of the interval is 1 second. > > : The ingress LER transmits BFD Control packets over the MPLS LSP with > : the Demand (D) flag set at negotiated interval per [RFC5880], the > : greater of bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval and bfd.RemoteMinRxInterval, > : until it receives the valid BFD packet from the egress LER with the > : Poll (P) bit and the Diagnostic (Diag) field value Control Detection > : Time Expired. Reception of such BFD control packet by the ingress > : LER indicates that the monitored LSP has a failure and sending BFD > : control packet with the Final flag set to acknowledge failure > : indication is likely to fail. > > Here we're just using standard BFD procedure. If the session is Up, > transmit appropriately. Don't restate protocol. > GIM>> I couldn't find explicit text in Section 6.5 of RFC 5880 that suggests that a BFD system analyzes the Diag field of the received BFD Control message with Poll bit set. The very first sentence of the section refers to "parameter change": A Poll Sequence is an exchange of BFD Control packets that is used in some circumstances to ensure that the remote system is aware of parameter changes. RFC 5880 does not explicitly define the interpretation of "parameters" and, as a result, it leaves somewhat ambiguous. I believe that documenting the procedure is useful and ensures interoperability among independent implementations. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > This next section potentially proposes new behavior: > > : Instead, the ingress LER transmits th= e > : BFD Control packet to the egress LER over the IP network with: > : > : o destination IP address MUST be set to the destination IP address > : of the LSP Ping Echo request message [RFC8029]; > : > : o destination UDP port set to 4784 [RFC5883]; > : > : o Final (F) flag in BFD control packet MUST be set; > : > : o Demand (D) flag in BFD control packet MUST be cleared. > : > : The ingress LER changes the state of the BFD session to Down and > : changes rate of BFD Control packets transmission to one packet per > : second. The ingress LER in Down mode changes to Asynchronous mode > : until the BFD session comes to Up state once again. Then the ingres= s > : LER switches to the Demand mode. > > The behavior here covers the fact that the underlying MPLS LSP is no long= er > usable - the egress LSR detected a failure in the receipt of the BFD PDUs > from the ingress LSR. > > Since Demand mode was enabled, how does the ingress LSR know that the > session is Down from the perspective of the egress? The procedures > documented above per RFC 5880 will have the egress initiating the Poll > sequence to do the state transition. > > But similarly, since Demand mode is enabled, the only way for the egress > LSR > to know that the session has gone Down from the perspective of the ingres= s > LSR is for it to receive the response to the Poll. Thus, the above > procedure attempts to suggest reaching the egress LSR using BFD multi-hop > procedures. > GIM>> I'd note that the egress LSR detects the failure when its Detection timer expires. It then starts the Poll sequence and uses the Diag field to inform the ingress LER of the failure using BFD multi-hop mode (as per RFC 5884). The ingress LER uses BFD multi-hop when it sends a BFD Control message with the Final flag set to conclude the Poll sequence. > > Chairs commentary: > ------------------ > > This procedural point is potentially worth WG discussion and potentially = a > motivation to advance this draft. The discussion will largely involve wh= at > existing implementations of RFC 5884 already do in circumstances where th= e > ingress path has gone down. Even without Demand mode being active, the > egress LSR will still transition to Down and signal toward the ingress LS= R. > And similarly, the ingress no longer has a valid forward path to carry it= s > acknowledgement of session is in the Down state to the egress LSR. > GIM>> It is an interesting observation, thank you. I think that in the context of RFC 5884, the egress LER uses periodic BFD control messages to signal failure detection to the ingress system rather than a Poll sequence. If this is correct, the ingress LER does not need to transmit a BFD control packet out-of-band, i.e., using a BFD multi-hop path. > > The fault observed here is really with RFC 5884 procedures rather than > specifically the Demand mode. > > Perversely, it could be observed that in the absence of MPLS encapsulatio= n > and the use of Demand mode that the above considerations still apply: Wh= en > a receiver is in Demand mode, needs to transition state, notifies the > sender > by changing its local state, it may not receive the acknowledgment that t= he > sender has received and processed that state. This can lead to a similar= ly > stale session. > GIM>> Thank you for pointing to the more general case. > > What we thus have are two conditions wherein it's not possible to fully > clean up a BFD session that has locally determined it is Down. Existing > implementations must already deal with this in some fashion, and that > discussion on the list may be fruitful. > GIM>> Thank you for highlighting this. I'll look at what I can find and share the results with the group. --00000000000083ffe605ad599b1f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Jeff, et al.,
    thank you for your t= horough review and the most detailed comments, all is greatly appreciated. = Please find my notes in-lined and tagged by GIM>>. I've updated t= he draft and you can review the updates in the attached diff. I much apprec= iate comments on the updates.

    Regards,
    G= reg

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:03 AM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
    Greg,

    Thank you for your patience.

    On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 09:00:38AM -0700, Greg Mirsky wrote:
    > Dear All,
    > I much appreciate it if you can share the conclusion of the discussion= of
    > the draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Greg

    The BFD Working Group chairs and Area Director have reviewed
    draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand.=C2=A0 The chairs had originally issued a work= ing group
    adoption call without having read the document.=C2=A0 Upon review, it was determined that the majority of the text in the draft mostly restated
    existing BFD Demand mode procedure.

    The chairs apologize for not having done sufficient vetting prior to
    starting the adoption process and causing the confusion that followed.

    The majority of the draft covers a re-statement of existing BFD procedure and obscures the potential request for normative protocol changes.=C2=A0 Th= is
    response is split into two sections: The first portion covers procedure tha= t
    is a restatement of RFC 5880 Demand behaviors with a few possible
    non-intended variances.=C2=A0 The second portion covers a potential change = to
    BFD Demand behavior and may be reason to continue working group discussion.=

    It's noted that a likely motivation for this draft comes from the follo= wing
    statement in RFC 5884, =C2=A76 "Session Establishment":

    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0A BFD session is bootstrapped using LSP Ping.= =C2=A0 This specification
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0describes procedures only for BFD asynchronous = mode.=C2=A0 BFD demand mode
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0is outside the scope of this specification.
    While "outside the scope", the procedures for exercising Demand m= ode are
    covered largely in detail in RFC 5880.
    GIM>> I a= gree that the Demand mode is defined in RFC 5880. draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-dem= and is intended to discuss the applicability of BFD in Demand over=C2=A0the= MPLS LSP. The updates to the draft are to remove unnecessary=C2=A0re-state= ments of RFC 5880 by providing references to, primarily, Section 6.6 of RFC= 5880.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------<= br>
    In the following response, ':' blockquotes are from
    draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand and '#' blockquotes are from the cited= RFC.

    The text of the document and the matching procedures from RFC 5880 follow:<= br>
    : 3.=C2=A0 Use of the BFD Demand Mode
    :
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [RFC5880] defines that the Demand mode MAY be:
    :
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 asymmetric, i.e. used in one direction of a BFD sess= ion;
    :
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 switched to and from without bringing BFD session to= Down state
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0through using a Poll Sequence.

    RFC 5880 =C2=A76 "Demand Mode" reads:
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0Demand mode MAY be enabled or disabled at any t= ime, independently in
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0each direction, by setting or clearing the Dema= nd (D) bit in the BFD
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0Control packet, without affecting the BFD sessi= on state.=C2=A0 Note that
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0the Demand bit MUST NOT be set unless both syst= ems perceive the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0session to be Up (the local system thinks the s= ession is Up, and the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0remote system last reported Up state in the Sta= te (Sta) field of the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0BFD Control packet).
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0When the transmitted value of the Demand (D) bi= t is to be changed,
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0the transmitting system MUST initiate a Poll Se= quence in conjunction
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0with changing the bit in order to ensure that b= oth systems are aware
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the change.

    The poll sequence is defined in RFC 5880 =C2=A75 "The Poll Sequence&qu= ot;:
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0A Poll Sequence consists of a system sending pe= riodic BFD Control
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets with the Poll (P) bit set.=C2=A0 When t= he other system receives a
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0Poll, it immediately transmits a BFD Control pa= cket with the Final
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0(F) bit set, independent of any periodic BFD Co= ntrol packets it may
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0be sending (see section 6.8.7).=C2=A0 When the = system sending the Poll
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0sequence receives a packet with Final, the Poll= Sequence is
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0terminated, and any subsequent BFD Control pack= ets are sent with the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0Poll bit cleared.=C2=A0 A BFD Control packet MU= ST NOT have both the Poll
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0(P) and Final (F) bits set.

    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For the case of BFD over MPLS LSP, ingress Label switching E= dge
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Router (LER) usually acts as Active BFD peer and egress LER = acts as
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Passive BFD peer.=C2=A0 The Active peer bootstraps the BFD s= ession by
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 using LSP ping.=C2=A0 Once the BFD session is in Up state th= e ingress LER
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that supports this specification MUST switch to the Demand m= ode by
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 setting Demand (D) bit in its Control packet and initiating = a Poll
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sequence.=C2=A0 If the egress LER supports this specificatio= n it MUST
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 respond with the Final (F) bit set in its BFD Control packet= sent to
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the ingress LER and ceases further transmission of periodic = BFD
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 control packets to the ingress LER.

    The procedure above is covered by core RFC 5880 procedures as above.=C2=A0 = The
    one item of interest here not part of the specification is "MUST switc= h".
    Effectively, an optional procedure normally covered by configuration mode o= r
    application profile is mandated by this document.
    GIM&= gt;> Yes, it is assumed that an implementation that supports this specif= ication will provide control to select between BFD Asynchronous (RFC 5884) = and BFD Demand modes. If the latter mode selected, the use of the normative= form appears appropriate. Below is the updated text:
    =C2=A0 =C2= =A0If the BFD session is configured to use the Demand
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0mode,= once the BFD session is in Up state the ingress LER MUST switch
    =C2=A0 = =C2=A0to the Demand mode as defined in Section 6.6 [RFC5880].=C2=A0 The egr= ess
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0LER also follows procedures defined in Section 6.6 [RFC= 5880] and
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0ceases further transmission of periodic BFD contr= ol packets to the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0ingress LER.

    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In this state BFD peers MAY remain as long as the egress LER= is in Up
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 state.=C2=A0 The ingress LER MAY check liveness of the egres= s LER by
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 setting the Poll flag.=C2=A0 The egress LER will respond by = transmitting
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD control packet with the Final flag set.=C2=A0 If the ing= ress LER
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 doesn't receive BFD packet with the Final flag from its = peer after
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the predetermined period of time, default wait time recommen= ded 1
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 second, the ingress MAY transmit another packet with the Pol= l flag
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 set.=C2=A0 If ingress doesn't receive BFD control packet= with the Final
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 flag set in response to three consecutive packets with Poll = flag, it
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 MAY declare the BFD peer non-responsive and change state of = the BFD
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 session to Down state.

    RFC 5880 =C2=A76 "Demand Mode" further reads:
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0When a system in Demand mode wishes to verify b= idirectional
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0connectivity, it initiates a Poll Sequence (see= section 6.5).=C2=A0 If no
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0response is received to a Poll, the Poll is rep= eated until the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0Detection Time expires, at which point the sess= ion is declared to be
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0Down.=C2=A0 Note that if Demand mode is operati= ng only on the local
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0system, the Poll Sequence is performed by simpl= y setting the Poll (P)
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0bit in regular periodic BFD Control packets, as= required by section
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A06.5.
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Detection Time in Demand mode is calculated= differently than in
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0Asynchronous mode; it is based on the transmit = rate of the local
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0system, rather than the transmit rate of the re= mote system.=C2=A0 This
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0ensures that the Poll Sequence mechanism works = properly.=C2=A0 See section
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A06.8.4 for more details.
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0[...]
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0When the transmitted value of the Demand (D) bi= t is to be changed,
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0the transmitting system MUST initiate a Poll Se= quence in conjunction
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0with changing the bit in order to ensure that b= oth systems are aware
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the change.

    The procedure above documents how to use a poll sequence to verify liveness=
    while in Demand mode.=C2=A0 The calculation of the Detection time for Deman= d mode
    while undergoing a Poll sequence is referred to in =C2=A76.8.4.

    draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand procedure cited above, in particular the "= ;1
    second" time is a variance against the Poll sequence procedure.

    The "three consecutive packets" is similarly a variance against t= he core BFD
    procedures, where this is covered by the Detect Multiplier.
    GIM>> I've replaced the restatement with the reference to S= ection 6.6. The updated text is below:
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In this stat= e BFD peers MAY remain as long as the egress LER is in Up
    =C2=A0 =C2= =A0state.=C2=A0 The ingress LER SHOULD periodically check continuity of a=C2=A0 =C2=A0bidirectional path between the ingress and egress LERs by us= ing the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0Poll Sequence, as described in Section 6.6 [RFC5880= ].=C2=A0 An
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation that supports using the Poll Seq= uence as the mechanism
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0for bidirectional path continuity ch= eck MUST be able to control the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0interval between consecutiv= e Poll Sequences.=C2=A0 The RECOMMENDED default
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0value is 1 = second.

    With respect to declaring the session Down as part of a Poll sequence in Demand Mode, =C2=A76.8.4 has the following text:

    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0If Demand mode is active, and a period of time = equal to the Detection
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0Time passes after the initiation of a Poll Sequ= ence (the transmission
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the first BFD Control packet with the Poll b= it set), the session
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0has gone down -- the local system MUST set bfd.= SessionState to Down,
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0and bfd.LocalDiag to 1 (Control Detection Time = Expired).


    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the Detection timer at the egress LER expires it MUST sen= d BFD
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Control packet to the ingress LER with the Poll (P) bit set,= Status
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (Sta) field set to Down value, and the Diagnostic (Diag) fie= ld set to
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Control Detection Time Expired value.=C2=A0 The egress LER s= ends these
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Control packets to the ingress LER at the rate of one per se= cond
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 until either it receives the valid for this BFD session cont= rol
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet with the Final (F) bit set from the ingress LER or th= e defect
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 condition clears and the BFD session state reaches Up state = at the
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 egress LER.

    >From the perspective of the egress LER, standard Async BFD without Dema= nd is
    still running.=C2=A0 The following text from =C2=A76.6, "Demand Mode&q= uot;, applies:

    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0If Demand mode is active on either or both syst= ems, a Poll Sequence
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST be initiated whenever the contents of the = next BFD Control
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0packet to be sent would be different than the c= ontents of the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0previous packet, with the exception of the Poll= (P) and Final (F)
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits.=C2=A0 This ensures that parameter changes= are transmitted to the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #=C2=A0 =C2=A0remote system and that the remote system acknow= ledges these changes.

    Again, the "1 second" time is a variance against RFC 5880.

    Prior list e-mail and IETF working group session discussion suggested that<= br> the last sentence above leads to the possible conclusion that this this is<= br> only done for "parameter changes".=C2=A0 However, the leading sen= tence clearly
    covers "whenever the contents [...] would be different".=C2=A0 Di= scussion among
    the chairs and the AD suggest that the last sentence is not intended to
    specify a normative behavior in restricting to "configuration".

    RFC 5880 is largely structured around the BFD PDU contents reflecting the "State Variables" documented in =C2=A76.8.1 and similar variables= in the
    extension documents.=C2=A0 The "parameters" reference in =C2=A75.= 6 is intended to
    refer to such state variables as instantiatied in the PDU.
    =
    GIM>> I agree that the text might be interpreted as explained in your= comment. I believe that that indicates that the original text is not defin= itive and clarifying the procedure in draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand is helpf= ul to implementors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I've updated this paragraph as follows:=
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0If the Detection timer at the egress LER expires it= MUST send BFD
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0Control packet to the ingress LER with the P= oll (P) bit set, Status
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0(Sta) field set to Down value, and = the Diagnostic (Diag) field set to
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0Control Detection Time E= xpired value.=C2=A0 The egress LER periodically
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0transmits t= hese Control packets to the ingress LER until either it
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0rec= eives the valid for this BFD session control packet with the Final
    =C2= =A0 =C2=A0(F) bit set from the ingress LER or the defect condition clears a= nd
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0the BFD session state reaches Up state at the egress LER= .=C2=A0 An
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation that supports this specification = MUST provide control
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0of the interval between consecutive Po= ll messages signaling the
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0expiration of the Detection timer= .=C2=A0 The RECOMMENDED default value of
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0the interval is 1 = second.

    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The ingress LER transmits BFD Control packets over the MPLS = LSP with
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the Demand (D) flag set at negotiated interval per [RFC5880]= , the
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 greater of bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval and bfd.RemoteMinRxInter= val,
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 until it receives the valid BFD packet from the egress LER w= ith the
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Poll (P) bit and the Diagnostic (Diag) field value Control D= etection
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Time Expired.=C2=A0 Reception of such BFD control packet by = the ingress
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 LER indicates that the monitored LSP has a failure and sendi= ng BFD
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 control packet with the Final flag set to acknowledge failur= e
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 indication is likely to fail.

    Here we're just using standard BFD procedure.=C2=A0 If the session is U= p,
    transmit appropriately.=C2=A0 Don't restate protocol.
    <= div>GIM>> I couldn't find explicit text in Section 6.5 of RFC 588= 0 that suggests that a BFD system analyzes the Diag field of the received B= FD Control message with Poll bit set. The very first sentence of the sectio= n refers to "parameter change":
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0A Poll Seq= uence is an exchange of BFD Control packets that is used in
    =C2=A0 =C2= =A0some circumstances to ensure that the remote system is aware of
    =C2= =A0 =C2=A0parameter changes.
    RFC 5880 does not explicitly def= ine the interpretation of "parameters" and, as a result, it leave= s somewhat ambiguous. I believe that documenting the procedure is useful an= d ensures interoperability among independent implementations.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------<= br>
    This next section potentially proposes new behavior:

    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Instead, the ingress LE= R transmits the
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Control packet to the egress LER over the IP network wit= h:
    :
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 destination IP address MUST be set to the destinatio= n IP address
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of the LSP Ping Echo request message [RFC8029];=
    :
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 destination UDP port set to 4784 [RFC5883];
    :
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Final (F) flag in BFD control packet MUST be set; :
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Demand (D) flag in BFD control packet MUST be cleare= d.
    :
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The ingress LER changes the state of the BFD session to Down= and
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 changes rate of BFD Control packets transmission to one pack= et per
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 second.=C2=A0 The ingress LER in Down mode changes to Asynch= ronous mode
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 until the BFD session comes to Up state once again.=C2=A0 Th= en the ingress
    :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 LER switches to the Demand mode.

    The behavior here covers the fact that the underlying MPLS LSP is no longer=
    usable - the egress LSR detected a failure in the receipt of the BFD PDUs from the ingress LSR.=C2=A0

    Since Demand mode was enabled, how does the ingress LSR know that the
    session is Down from the perspective of the egress?=C2=A0 The procedures documented above per RFC 5880 will have the egress initiating the Poll
    sequence to do the state transition.

    But similarly, since Demand mode is enabled, the only way for the egress LS= R
    to know that the session has gone Down from the perspective of the ingress<= br> LSR is for it to receive the response to the Poll.=C2=A0 Thus, the above procedure attempts to suggest reaching the egress LSR using BFD multi-hop procedures.
    GIM>> I'd note that the egress L= SR detects the failure when its Detection timer expires. It then starts the= Poll sequence and uses the Diag field to inform the ingress LER of the fai= lure using BFD multi-hop mode (as per RFC 5884). The ingress LER uses BFD m= ulti-hop when it sends a BFD Control message with the Final flag set to con= clude the Poll sequence.

    Chairs commentary:
    ------------------

    This procedural point is potentially worth WG discussion and potentially a<= br> motivation to advance this draft.=C2=A0 The discussion will largely involve= what
    existing implementations of RFC 5884 already do in circumstances where the<= br> ingress path has gone down.=C2=A0 Even without Demand mode being active, th= e
    egress LSR will still transition to Down and signal toward the ingress LSR.=
    And similarly, the ingress no longer has a valid forward path to carry its<= br> acknowledgement of session is in the Down state to the egress LSR.
    GIM>> It is an interesting observation, thank you. I thi= nk that in the context of RFC 5884, the egress LER uses periodic BFD contro= l messages to signal failure detection to the ingress system rather than a = Poll sequence. If this is correct, the ingress LER does not need to transmi= t a BFD control packet out-of-band, i.e., using a BFD multi-hop path.
    =

    The fault observed here is really with RFC 5884 procedures rather than
    specifically the Demand mode.

    Perversely, it could be observed that in the absence of MPLS encapsulation<= br> and the use of Demand mode that the above considerations still apply:=C2=A0= When
    a receiver is in Demand mode, needs to transition state, notifies the sende= r
    by changing its local state, it may not receive the acknowledgment that the=
    sender has received and processed that state.=C2=A0 This can lead to a simi= larly
    stale session.
    GIM>> Thank you for pointing to t= he more general case.=C2=A0

    What we thus have are two conditions wherein it's not possible to fully=
    clean up a BFD session that has locally determined it is Down.=C2=A0 Existi= ng
    implementations must already deal with this in some fashion, and that
    discussion on the list may be fruitful.
    GIM>> Th= ank you for highlighting this. I'll look at what I can find and share t= he results with the group.
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