From nobody Tue May 12 13:56:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129101A1B6C for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 13:56:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5hFSkLHhmLOf for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 13:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04CC61A8A85 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 13:56:10 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79a96d000007fb1-50-555210a17521 Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 55.40.32689.1A012555; Tue, 12 May 2015 16:39:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Tue, 12 May 2015 16:56:04 -0400 From: Xufeng Liu To: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Operational State Modeling Thread-Index: AdCM9felkKpDh+jYTPGkN01wChYhCQ== Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 20:56:04 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AAB1CC9C17CBA440BDFA169056B93B9EBE8260eusaamb107ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrO5CgaBQg7XnpC1+P7/N7MDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujB0NnSwFP3YxV7Q0dTE3MD5vYu5i5OSQEDCRuLT9DBuELSZx 4d56IJuLQ0jgKKPE9KO/oJzljBLr+qawdzFycLAJaElcfuoI0iAiYC7RPPsM2CBhAWWJ299X skDENSSu34SIiwjoSVz//pAJxGYRUJXY+2wRWJxXwFtiSeM+sHpGoMXfT60Bq2EWEJe49WQ+ E8RBAhJL9pyHOlRU4uXjf6wQtpLEpKXnWCHq8yU23bnJDjFTUOLkzCcsExiFZiEZNQtJ2Swk ZRBxHYkFuz+xQdjaEssWvmaGsc8ceMyELL6AkX0VI0dpcWpZbrqRwSZGYPAfk2DT3cG456Xl IUYBDkYlHt4H0wJDhVgTy4orcw8xSnOwKInzLnpwMERIID2xJDU7NbUgtSi+qDQntfgQIxMH p1QD44QDWevijzQEetdvEnS+lMllVx6t/UdaTPRx4X8XBmVbDpewl2Kz/v+TlxUwnZf1qDmg U+h0QFvB6qqZcz9srbP+/exwmZzXOtkjEad1bD23hVaF8t8Kf39ryfs1ymkmvIp7BVaXaHpE FAWnrFETO9f9ZtmX58tk/4rxzkn+afR/m8jX890PlViKMxINtZiLihMBXUvOXV8CAAA= Archived-At: Subject: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 20:56:16 -0000 --_000_AAB1CC9C17CBA440BDFA169056B93B9EBE8260eusaamb107ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable During the YANG MPLS/TE design team discussions, the topic of operational s= tate modeling was brought up. We discussed the proposal presented in http:/= /www.ietf.org/id/draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate-00.txt and some various ap= proaches. Here are some thoughts and questions. 1. Requirements We agree with the requirements presented in draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate= . These requirements are summarized as followings. 1.1.Performance Requirement * Operational state access is much more frequent than configurat= ion * State data is generally higher volume than configuration data 1.2.Data Type Requirements * Representing intended configuration (actual vs. configured) * Derived, negotiated, and system assigned data * Counters or statistics 1.3.Operation Requirements * Separate configuration and operational state data * Retrieve configuration and operational state data independentl= y * Retrieve derived state and statistics state independently * Consistent schema locations for configuration and correspondin= g operational state data 2. Some Options 2.1.Option 1 /routing/routing-instance: +--rw te! +--rw globals +--rw interfaces | +--rw interface* [interface] | +--rw interface if:interface-ref +--rw config | +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] +--rw config | | +--rw capability? identityref | | +--rw encoding? identityref +--ro state | +--ro capability? identityref | +--ro encoding? identityref | +--rw te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric +--ro state | +--ro te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric +--ro oper-status? enumeration +--ro counters +--ro pkts-sent? yang:counter32 +--rw tunnels +--rw tunnel* [name type] +--rw name string +--rw config | +--rw admin-status? identityref | +--rw forwarding +--rw config | +--rw load-share? uint32 +--ro state | +--ro load-share? uint32 +--ro state +--ro admin-status? identityref +--ro oper-status? enumeration +--ro counters +--ro events? yang:counter32 2.2.Option 2 /routing/routing-instance: +--rw te! +--rw globals +--rw interfaces | +--rw interface* [interface] | +--rw interface if:interface-ref | +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] | | +--rw capability? identityref | | +--rw encoding? identityref | +--rw te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric +--rw tunnels +--rw tunnel* [name type] +--rw name string +--rw admin-status? identityref +--rw forwarding +--rw load-share? uint32 /routing-state/routing-instance: +--ro te! +--ro globals +--ro interfaces | +--ro interface* [interface] | +--ro interface if:interface-ref | +--ro switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] | | +--ro capability? identityref | | +--ro encoding? identityref | +--ro te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric +--ro oper-status? enumeration +--ro counters +--ro pkts-sent? yang:counter32 +--ro tunnels +--ro tunnel* [name type] +--ro name string +--ro admin-status? identityref +--ro forwarding +--ro load-share? uint32 +--ro oper-status? enumeration +--ro counters +--ro events? yang:counter32 2.3.Option 3 /routing/routing-instance: +--rw te! +--rw globals +--rw interfaces | +--rw interface* [interface] | +--rw interface if:interface-ref +--rw config | +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] +--rw config | | +--rw capability? identityref | | +--rw encoding? identityref +--ro state | +--ro capability? identityref | +--ro encoding? identityref | +--rw te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric +--ro state | +--ro te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric +--rw tunnels +--rw tunnel* [name type] +--rw name string +--rw config | +--rw admin-status? identityref | +--rw forwarding +--rw config | +--rw load-share? uint32 +--ro state | +--ro load-share? uint32 +--ro state +--ro admin-status? identityref /routing-state/routing-instance: +--ro te! +--ro globals +--ro interfaces | +--ro interface* [interface] | +--ro interface if:interface-ref +--ro oper-status? enumeration +--ro counters +--ro pkts-sent? yang:counter32 +--ro tunnels +--ro tunnel* [name type] +--ro name string +--ro oper-status? enumeration +--ro counters +--ro events? yang:counter32 3. Approach Rationales 1.1.Performance Requirement * Separating configuration and state branches allows implementin= g state data through a separate fast channel to deliver high frequent and h= igh volume data. * In this aspect, Option 2 has a clearer separation between conf= iguration and state data, and easier to achieve better performance by using= separate channels. 1.2.Data Type Requirements * Duplicating all configuration attributes makes actual configur= ation settings available * Derived, negotiated, and system assigned data are added to the= state branch * Counters or statistics are added to the state branch * All three options satisfy these requirements 1.3.Operation Requirements * Separating configuration and operational state data allows ret= rieving configuration and operational state data independently. * Separating derived state and statistics state allows retrievin= g them independently * The state branch is an exact mirror of the configuration branc= h, so the schema locations are consistent. * In this aspect, all three options satisfy the requirements. Fo= r option 1, to check the state value for a specific configuration attribute= , the client software can simply add the "state" to the end of the schema n= ode path. For option 2, to check the state value for a specific configurati= on attribute, the client software can simply add the "-state" suffix to the= name of the top container. Option 1 seems to be easiest in this regard, bu= t others are acceptable? 1.4.Other Requirements * Model system created read-only objects (e.g. TE tunnels). Whe= n state data and config data share the same parent, they share the same key= for the parent list. Even though that the state branch is read-only, its p= arent is not and the key of the parent is not. Therefore, we will have diff= iculty to achieve this in Option 1. * Compatible with the existing models. The related models inclu= de RFC7223, RFC7277 and draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-18. In this aspect, O= ption 2 seems to do better. Your comments and preferences are appreciated. Thanks, - Xufeng --_000_AAB1CC9C17CBA440BDFA169056B93B9EBE8260eusaamb107ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

During the YANG MPLS/TE design team discussions, the= topic of operational state modeling was brought up. We discussed the propo= sal presented in <= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-openconfig-net= mod-opstate-00.txt = and some various approaches. Here are some thoughts and questions.

= 1.    Requirements

We agree with the requirements presented in draft-op= enconfig-netmod-opstate. These requirements are summarized as followings.

<= ![if !supportLists]>1.1.Pe= rformance Requirement

·            Operational state access is much more freque= nt than configuration

·            State data is generally higher volume than c= onfiguration data

<= ![if !supportLists]>1.2.Da= ta Type Requirements

·            Representing intended configuration (actual = vs. configured)

·            Derived, negotiated, and system assigned dat= a

·            Counters or statistics

<= ![if !supportLists]>1.3.Op= eration Requirements

·            Separate configuration and operational state= data

·            Retrieve configuration and operational state= data independently

·            Retrieve derived state and statistics state = independently

·            Consistent schema locations for configuratio= n and corresponding operational state data

= 2.    Some Options

<= ![if !supportLists]>2.1.Op= tion 1

 

/routing/routing-instance:

   +--rw te!

      +--rw global= s

      +--rw interf= aces

      |  +--r= w interface* [interface]

      |  &nb= sp;  +--rw interface       &nbs= p;         if:interface-ref

        = ;    +--rw config

      |  &nb= sp;     +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-ca= pability]

        = ;          +--rw config

      |  &nb= sp;        |  +--rw capability?=    identityref

      |  &nb= sp;       |  +--rw encoding? &n= bsp;   identityref

        = ;          +--ro state<= o:p>

      |  =             +--r= o capability?   identityref

      |  =            +--ro enco= ding?     identityref

      |  &nb= sp;     +--rw te-metric?    &nb= sp;           ietf-te-typ= es:te-metric

        = ;    +--ro state

      |  =       +--ro te-metric?    =             ietf-te-= types:te-metric

        = ;       +--= ro oper-status?          =   enumeration

   = ;            +--= ro counters

   = ;              =     +--ro pkts-sent?     &= nbsp;        yang:counter32  &= nbsp;   

      +--rw t= unnels

        = ; +--rw tunnel* [name type]

        = ;    +--rw name       = ;             s= tring

        = ;    +--rw config

        &nbs= p;      |  +--rw admin-status?  = ;         identityref

        = ;    |  +--rw forwarding

        = ;          +--rw config

        = ;    |        +--rw l= oad-share?   uint32

       &n= bsp;          +--ro state<= o:p>

       &n= bsp;    |        +--r= o load-share?   uint32

       &n= bsp;    +--ro state

        &= nbsp;         +--ro admin-statu= s?           identityref<= o:p>

   = ;            +--= ro oper-status?          =   enumeration

   = ;            +--= ro counters

   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;  +--ro events?        &= nbsp;     yang:counter32

<= ![if !supportLists]>2.2.Op= tion 2

 

/routing/routing-instance:

   +--rw te!

      +--rw global= s

      +--rw interf= aces

      |  +--r= w interface* [interface]

      |  &nb= sp;  +--rw interface       &nbs= p;         if:interface-ref

      |  &nb= sp;  +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability]

      |  &nb= sp;  |  +--rw capability?   identityref<= /p>

      |  &nb= sp;  |  +--rw encoding?     identityref

      |  &nb= sp;  +--rw te-metric?       &nb= sp;        ietf-te-types:te-metric<= /o:p>

      +--rw tunnel= s

        = ; +--rw tunnel* [name type]

        = ;    +--rw name       = ;             s= tring

        &nbs= p;   +--rw admin-status?     &n= bsp;     identityref

        = ;    +--rw forwarding

        = ;       +--rw load-share?   uin= t32

/routing-state/routing-instance:

   +--ro te!

      +--ro global= s

      +--ro interf= aces

      |  +--r= o interface* [interface]

      |   &n= bsp; +--ro interface       &nbs= p;         if:interface-ref

      |  =    +--ro switching-capabilities* [switching-capability]<= /o:p>

      |  =    |  +--ro capability?   identityref

      |  =    |  +--ro encoding?     identityre= f

      |  =    +--ro te-metric?       =          ietf-te-types:te-metric

   = ;         +--ro oper-status?&nb= sp;           enumeration=

   = ;         +--ro counters

   = ;            +--= ro pkts-sent?          &n= bsp;   yang:counter32

      +--ro tunnel= s

        = ; +--ro tunnel* [name type]

        = ;    +--ro name       = ;             s= tring

       &n= bsp;    +--ro admin-status?     = ;      identityref

       &n= bsp;    +--ro forwarding

       &n= bsp;       +--ro load-share?   = uint32

   = ;         +--ro oper-status?&nb= sp;           enumeration=

   = ;         +--ro counters

   = ;            +--= ro events?           &nbs= p;  yang:counter32      

 

<= ![if !supportLists]>2.3.Op= tion 3

 

/routing/routing-instance:

   +--rw te!

      +--rw global= s

      +--rw interf= aces

      |  +--r= w interface* [interface]

      |  &nb= sp;  +--rw interface       &nbs= p;         if:interface-ref

        = ;    +--rw config

      |  &nb= sp;     +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-ca= pability]

        = ;          +--rw config

      |  &nb= sp;        |  +--rw capability?=    identityref

      |  &nb= sp;       |  +--rw encoding? &n= bsp;   identityref

       &n= bsp;          +--ro state<= o:p>

      |  =             +--r= o capability?   identityref

      |  =            +--ro enco= ding?     identityref

      |  &nb= sp;     +--rw te-metric?    &nb= sp;           ietf-te-typ= es:te-metric

       &n= bsp;    +--ro state

      |  =       +--ro te-metric?    =             ietf-te-= types:te-metric

      +--rw tunnel= s

        = ; +--rw tunnel* [name type]

        = ;    +--rw name       = ;             s= tring

        = ;    +--rw config

        &nbs= p;      |  +--rw admin-status?  = ;         identityref

        = ;    |  +--rw forwarding

        = ;          +--rw config

        = ;    |        +--rw l= oad-share?   uint32

       &n= bsp;          +--ro state<= o:p>

       &n= bsp;    |        +--r= o load-share?   uint32

        = ;    +--ro state

       &n= bsp;       +--ro admin-status?  = ;         identityref

 

/routing-state/routing-instance:

   +--ro te!

      +--ro global= s

      +--ro interf= aces

      |  +--r= o interface* [interface]

      |  &nb= sp;  +--ro interface       &nbs= p;         if:interface-ref

   = ;         +--ro oper-status?&nb= sp;           enumeration=

   = ;         +--ro counters

   = ;            +--= ro pkts-sent?          &n= bsp;   yang:counter32

      +--ro tunnel= s

        = ; +--ro tunnel* [name type]

        = ;    +--ro name       = ;             s= tring

   = ;         +--ro oper-status?&nb= sp;           enumeration=

   = ;         +--ro counters

   = ;            +--= ro events?           = ;   yang:counter32

 

= 3.    Approach Rationales

<= ![if !supportLists]>1.1.Pe= rformance Requirement

·            Separating configuration and state branches = allows implementing state data through a separate fast channel to deliver h= igh frequent and high volume data.

·            In this aspect, Option 2 has a clearer separ= ation between configuration and state data, and easier to achieve better pe= rformance by using separate channels.

<= ![if !supportLists]>1.2.Da= ta Type Requirements

·            Duplicating all configuration attributes mak= es actual configuration settings available

·            Derived, negotiated, and system assigned dat= a are added to the state branch

·            Counters or statistics are added to the stat= e branch

·            All three options satisfy these requirements=

<= ![if !supportLists]>1.3.Op= eration Requirements

·            Separating configuration and operational sta= te data allows retrieving configuration and operational state data independ= ently.

·            Separating derived state and statistics stat= e allows retrieving them independently

·            The state branch is an exact mirror of the c= onfiguration branch, so the schema locations are consistent.

·            In this aspect, all three options satisfy th= e requirements. For option 1, to check the state value for a specific confi= guration attribute, the client software can simply add the “stateR= 21; to the end of the schema node path. For option 2, to check the state value for a specific configuration attribute,= the client software can simply add the “-state” suffix to the = name of the top container. Option 1 seems to be easiest in this regard, but= others are acceptable?

<= ![if !supportLists]>1.4.Ot= her Requirements

·             Model system created read-only objects (e.g.= TE tunnels). When state data and config data share the same parent, they s= hare the same key for the parent list. Even though that the state branch is= read-only, its parent is not and the key of the parent is not. Therefore, we will have difficulty to achiev= e this in Option 1.

·             Compatible with the existing models. The rel= ated models include RFC7223, RFC7277 and draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-18. = In this aspect, Option 2 seems to do better.

Your comments and preferences are appreciated.=

Thanks,

 

- Xufeng

 

--_000_AAB1CC9C17CBA440BDFA169056B93B9EBE8260eusaamb107ericsso_-- From nobody Tue May 12 14:17:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744051A902C for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 14:17:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.79 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.79 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dPTkH8sngKxF for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 14:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.riw.us (server.riw.us [162.144.32.236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D08A1A901D for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 14:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 162-229-180-77.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net ([162.229.180.77]:63586 helo=RussPC) by server.riw.us with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YsHYL-0007wV-3I; Tue, 12 May 2015 21:17:25 +0000 From: "Russ White" To: "'Xufeng Liu'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 17:17:22 -0400 Message-ID: <003901d08cf9$09cc8c90$1d65a5b0$@riw.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQHL9QK19n8XDxLtLL9w/thfSdrdSJ2CB4Wg Content-Language: en-us X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server.riw.us X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - riw.us X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server.riw.us: authenticated_id: russw@riw.us X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 21:17:29 -0000 > 2.1.Option 1 This is my least preferred option, because it seems to tie the existence of any tunnels to their configuration in some way. There may well be TE tunnels not configured by a local process, and yet you want to be able to see their state (?). Given this, I would prefer one of the options that separates rw from ro more cleanly. :-) Russ From nobody Tue May 12 14:23:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C26941AD1D5 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 14:23:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.86 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BRx1C5rcqjep for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E6BA1AD1C3 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E299B763; Tue, 12 May 2015 23:23:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id ybMGiVCGhy7i; Tue, 12 May 2015 23:23:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 12 May 2015 23:23:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79B020035; Tue, 12 May 2015 23:23:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uk0ZTkr3Ad2Y; Tue, 12 May 2015 23:23:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D842020036; Tue, 12 May 2015 23:23:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id D7A623332061; Tue, 12 May 2015 23:23:42 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 23:23:42 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Xufeng Liu Message-ID: <20150512212342.GA58293@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Xufeng Liu , "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 21:23:50 -0000 On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 08:56:04PM +0000, Xufeng Liu wrote: > * The state branch is an exact mirror of the configuration branch, so the schema locations are consistent. There are sometimes slight differences in the value sets of objects and in the constraints that apply. A valid configuration may have to follow certain constraints but the operational state must report the truth (and that might include violations of constraints). > * In this aspect, all three options satisfy the requirements. For option 1, to check the state value for a specific configuration attribute, the client software can simply add the "state" to the end of the schema node path. For option 2, to check the state value for a specific configuration attribute, the client software can simply add the "-state" suffix to the name of the top container. Option 1 seems to be easiest in this regard, but others are acceptable? Several of data models published in RFCs use the /foo /foo-state approach and unless someone finds a serious flaw or limitation, I suggest to stick with this approach. I do not think it helps operators if data models developed in different parts of the IETF use different approaches unless there is a strong reason to do so. > 1.4.Other Requirements > > * Model system created read-only objects (e.g. TE tunnels). When state data and config data share the same parent, they share the same key for the parent list. Even though that the state branch is read-only, its parent is not and the key of the parent is not. Therefore, we will have difficulty to achieve this in Option 1. Yes, branching in the middle is a bad idea. People seem to rediscover this. ;-) > * Compatible with the existing models. The related models include RFC7223, RFC7277 and draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-18. In this aspect, Option 2 seems to do better. Yep. It is as simple as 'follow the existing pattern'. ;-) /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue May 12 14:26:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183811A902C for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 14:26:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LHWidKWHr6sg for ; Tue, 12 May 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d="scan'208,217";a="149444648" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2015 21:26:34 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com [173.37.183.80]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4CLQYCW008899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 May 2015 21:26:34 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.23]) by xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com ([173.37.183.80]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 12 May 2015 16:26:34 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Xufeng Liu , "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling Thread-Index: AQHQjPpRkKpDh+jYTPGkN01wChYhCQ== Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 21:26:33 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.202] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D177E7E11AC4Caceeciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 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h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=jJGAfsgMtwrHuMaJ2YDlb3gdoujTchM0VrzIKKtCvZs=; b=ptuja1voFRpOJPaQq7mQ211GMq1Tlv6bVPd7fC40Fn/HjPokn9TnZz2hBMde4v1kFR AI8I6MAaAq+tBcmaMGEUgNESbzZMtXOOom8zRvbWWFTeQz81GpoJ9q7TdprL67RnZKWh /oMP5D+PwkqzEF8YDvSRU0VdgaPCD+aRFNGFbcGVpBQ6aHU5QUJ94S6PMOBEiUYbj1qJ htK4BQqwSFF0F+ubQKa0MOq0hWhABDfH3Kjuho6yk5l37hw4qeLXRa64ukOHrKknzOgF rsVIZjJCGFRmgyxhwDg3QY6OZIh57alPU7dzO+IfcZy1p0Gt9Q8HoJ98cBsjn0SyW+Mg yrCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=jJGAfsgMtwrHuMaJ2YDlb3gdoujTchM0VrzIKKtCvZs=; b=CKL9C73q+NIdPMyXKmcTjENvYLuB7sYXxxEJTrw8n47Bahb2KORq9hTl9lVf1Zs7Va yxQHQppQd1LCZYByDTAcEdykKxJl0jQv6eHjD5T44rrpxZz2nhEcp4SAar5YXSDIKnlj yBNSPCxEBbjM6kFuc3AvIYNgqFInBEnTKZH6Ll8YcDVhBXXWAg0gJ8e5endFdAEV3H+3 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X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 07:51:47 -0000 --001a1134e9a0b4bd780515f1e1d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xufeng, thanks very much for taking the time to do this systematic analysis -- much appreciated. We've also talked to a subset of the MPLS/TE DT just today about opstate to reiterate the reasons for the OpenConfig proposal. I will just comment on your rationale section. 1.1 Performance requirements Implementations today already support the retrieval of operational state and configuration data together. In fact, platforms that support NETCONF would need to handle both simultaneously in a request. The request does not return opstate at all. There is no option today for to retrieve only state (though our draft proposes, or more accurately, re-proposes it). The performance implications may be due to the datastore design for the different types of data, but where the data lives in the *schema* should not have a major impact on the performance to read it. In other words, if you accept the requirement that configuration needs to be part of state (which you seem to in the beginning of the note), then the location in the schema really shouldn't matter. It does matter for other reasons (see below). 1.2 Data type requirements -- agree with your conclusions 1.3 Operation requirements You mention, "*For option 2, to check the state value for a specific configuration attribute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9C-s= tate=E2=80=9D suffix to the name of the top container*" The question that this doesn't answer is what is the top container? It may be clear in an individual model, but I don't manage a device using just routing, or just interfaces. I want to compose a set of models into a coherent whole and be able to access config and corresponding state in a consistent way. When I compose the models, what I thought was the "top" container is no longer top -- it shows up somewhere in the middle, and my paths are now totally dependent on how modelers have decided to combine or separate their individual models and modules. From our perspective, option 2 doesn't meet this requirement. Rather than debate what the real top of a usable model is, we take the approach of pushing the separation to leaves of the tree, which works no matter how models are composed structurally. 1.4 Other requirements Regarding system-created tunnels, why is it necessary to consider them part of read-only state? I can just as well consider them as configured, only they are configured by some agent on the system -- they should in fact be configured using the same mechanism as a tunnel configured by an operator. If they are not writable, *and you want to enforce this in the model*, they could show up in only the state part of the tree -- I agree this does raise the issue with list keys that you mention. But list keys (and lists in general) are a bit broken in YANG 1.0/1.1 as we explain briefly in the draft. We can discuss the issues with lists in a separate thread given more time. Regarding compatibility with existing models, I really don't agree at all that the existing RFC models should constrain what we do when trying to meet the requirements of people trying to build real systems that use YANG models. With all respect to the authors of those few models (which we leverage considerably in our models), YANG models are software code, and should be treated as such IMO. We don't say that software is "done" and can't change -- it evolves and improves over time, sometimes in non-backward-compatible ways. And we don't issue a final version of software without considerable experience using and testing it in production= . thanks. -- Anees On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Xufeng, > > My interpretation of the OpenConfig draft is that it recommends option > 1. Actually, option 3 seems like a variation of 1 with some superfluous > levels. > > Thanks, > Acee > > From: Xufeng Liu > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 4:56 PM > To: Routing YANG > Subject: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling > > During the YANG MPLS/TE design team discussions, the topic of > operational state modeling was brought up. We discussed the proposal > presented in http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate-00.tx= t > and some various approaches. Here are some thoughts and questions. > 1. Requirements > > We agree with the requirements presented in > draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate. These requirements are summarized as > followings. > 1.1.Performance Requirement > > =C2=B7 Operational state access is much more frequent than > configuration > > =C2=B7 State data is generally higher volume than configuratio= n data > 1.2.Data Type Requirements > > =C2=B7 Representing intended configuration (actual vs. configu= red) > > =C2=B7 Derived, negotiated, and system assigned data > > =C2=B7 Counters or statistics > 1.3.Operation Requirements > > =C2=B7 Separate configuration and operational state data > > =C2=B7 Retrieve configuration and operational state data > independently > > =C2=B7 Retrieve derived state and statistics state independent= ly > > =C2=B7 Consistent schema locations for configuration and > corresponding operational state data > 2. Some Options 2.1.Option 1 > > > > /routing/routing-instance: > > +--rw te! > > +--rw globals > > +--rw interfaces > > | +--rw interface* [interface] > > | +--rw interface if:interface-ref > > +--rw config > > | +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] > > +--rw config > > | | +--rw capability? identityref > > | | +--rw encoding? identityref > > *+--ro state* > > * | +--ro capability? identityref* > > * | +--ro encoding? identityref* > > | +--rw te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric > > *+--ro state* > > * | +--ro te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric* > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro pkts-sent? yang:counter32 > > +--rw tunnels > > +--rw tunnel* [name type] > > +--rw name string > > +--rw config > > | +--rw admin-status? identityref > > | +--rw forwarding > > +--rw config > > | +--rw load-share? uint32 > > * +--ro state* > > * | +--ro load-share? uint32* > > * +--ro state* > > * +--ro admin-status? identityref* > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro events? yang:counter32 > 2.2.Option 2 > > > > /routing/routing-instance: > > +--rw te! > > +--rw globals > > +--rw interfaces > > | +--rw interface* [interface] > > | +--rw interface if:interface-ref > > | +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] > > | | +--rw capability? identityref > > | | +--rw encoding? identityref > > | +--rw te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric > > +--rw tunnels > > +--rw tunnel* [name type] > > +--rw name string > > +--rw admin-status? identityref > > +--rw forwarding > > +--rw load-share? uint32 > > /routing-state/routing-instance: > > +--ro te! > > +--ro globals > > +--ro interfaces > > | +--ro interface* [interface] > > | +--ro interface if:interface-ref > > * | +--ro switching-capabilities* [switching-capability]* > > * | | +--ro capability? identityref* > > * | | +--ro encoding? identityref* > > * | +--ro te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric* > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro pkts-sent? yang:counter32 > > +--ro tunnels > > +--ro tunnel* [name type] > > +--ro name string > > * +--ro admin-status? identityref* > > * +--ro forwarding* > > * +--ro load-share? uint32* > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro events? yang:counter32 > > > 2.3.Option 3 > > > > /routing/routing-instance: > > +--rw te! > > +--rw globals > > +--rw interfaces > > | +--rw interface* [interface] > > | +--rw interface if:interface-ref > > +--rw config > > | +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] > > +--rw config > > | | +--rw capability? identityref > > | | +--rw encoding? identityref > > * +--ro state* > > * | +--ro capability? identityref* > > * | +--ro encoding? identityref* > > | +--rw te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric > > * +--ro state* > > * | +--ro te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric* > > +--rw tunnels > > +--rw tunnel* [name type] > > +--rw name string > > +--rw config > > | +--rw admin-status? identityref > > | +--rw forwarding > > +--rw config > > | +--rw load-share? uint32 > > * +--ro state* > > * | +--ro load-share? uint32* > > *+--ro state* > > * +--ro admin-status? identityref* > > > > /routing-state/routing-instance: > > +--ro te! > > +--ro globals > > +--ro interfaces > > | +--ro interface* [interface] > > | +--ro interface if:interface-ref > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro pkts-sent? yang:counter32 > > +--ro tunnels > > +--ro tunnel* [name type] > > +--ro name string > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro events? yang:counter32 > > > 3. Approach Rationales 1.1.Performance Requirement > > =C2=B7 Separating configuration and state branches allows > implementing state data through a separate fast channel to deliver high > frequent and high volume data. > > =C2=B7 In this aspect, Option 2 has a clearer separation betwe= en > configuration and state data, and easier to achieve better performance by > using separate channels. > 1.2.Data Type Requirements > > =C2=B7 Duplicating all configuration attributes makes actual > configuration settings available > > =C2=B7 Derived, negotiated, and system assigned data are added= to > the state branch > > =C2=B7 Counters or statistics are added to the state branch > > =C2=B7 All three options satisfy these requirements > 1.3.Operation Requirements > > =C2=B7 Separating configuration and operational state data all= ows > retrieving configuration and operational state data independently. > > =C2=B7 Separating derived state and statistics state allows > retrieving them independently > > =C2=B7 The state branch is an exact mirror of the configuratio= n > branch, so the schema locations are consistent. > > =C2=B7 In this aspect, all three options satisfy the requireme= nts. > For option 1, to check the state value for a specific configuration > attribute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9Cstate=E2=80=9D= to the end of the > schema node path. For option 2, to check the state value for a specific > configuration attribute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9C= -state=E2=80=9D > suffix to the name of the top container. Option 1 seems to be easiest in > this regard, but others are acceptable? > 1.4.Other Requirements > > =C2=B7 Model system created read-only objects (e.g. TE tunnel= s). > When state data and config data share the same parent, they share the sam= e > key for the parent list. Even though that the state branch is read-only, > its parent is not and the key of the parent is not. Therefore, we will ha= ve > difficulty to achieve this in Option 1. > > =C2=B7 Compatible with the existing models. The related model= s > include RFC7223, RFC7277 and draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-18. In this > aspect, Option 2 seems to do better. > > Your comments and preferences are appreciated. > > Thanks, > > > > - Xufeng > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord > > --001a1134e9a0b4bd780515f1e1d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Xufeng, thanks very much for taking the time to do this sy= stematic analysis -- much appreciated. =C2=A0 We've also talked to a su= bset of the MPLS/TE DT just today about opstate to reiterate the reasons fo= r the OpenConfig proposal.=C2=A0 I will just comment on your rationale sect= ion.

1.1 Performance requirements

Implementations today already support the retrieval of operational state= and configuration data together.=C2=A0 In fact, platforms that support NET= CONF would need to handle both simultaneously in a <get> request.=C2= =A0 The <get-config> request does not return opstate at all.=C2=A0 Th= ere is no option today for <get-operational> to retrieve only state (= though our draft proposes, or more accurately, re-proposes it).=C2=A0 The p= erformance implications may be due to the datastore design for the differen= t types of data, but where the data lives in the *schema* should not have a= major impact on the performance to read it.=C2=A0 In other words, if you a= ccept the requirement that configuration needs to be part of state (which y= ou seem to in the beginning of the note), then the location in the schema r= eally shouldn't matter.=C2=A0 It does matter for other reasons (see bel= ow).

1.2 Data type requirements -- agree with your= conclusions

1.3 Operation requirements
=
You mention, "For option 2, to check the state value for a specific configuration = attribute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9C-state=E2=80=9D = suffix to the name of the top container"

The question that this doesn't answer is w= hat is the top container?=C2=A0 It may be clear in an individual model, but= I don't manage a device using just routing, or just interfaces.=C2=A0 = I want to compose a set of models into a coherent whole and be able to acce= ss config and corresponding state in a consistent way.=C2=A0 When I compose= the models, what I thought was the "top" container is no longer = top -- it shows up somewhere in the middle, and my paths are now totally de= pendent on how modelers have decided to combine or separate their individua= l models and modules.=C2=A0 From our perspective, option 2 doesn't meet= this requirement.=C2=A0 Rather than debate what the real top of a usable m= odel is, we take the approach of pushing the separation to leaves of the tr= ee, which works no matter how models are composed structurally.

1.4 Other requirements

= Regarding system-created tunne= ls, why is it necessary to consider them part of read-only state?=C2=A0 I c= an just as well consider them as configured, only they are configured by so= me agent on the system -- they should in fact be configured using the same = mechanism as a tunnel configured by an operator. =C2=A0 If they are not wri= table, *and you want to enforce this in the model*, they could show up in o= nly the state part of the tree -- I agree this does raise the issue with li= st keys that you mention.=C2=A0 But list keys (and lists in general) are a = bit broken in YANG 1.0/1.1 as we explain briefly in the draft.=C2=A0 We can= discuss the issues with lists in a separate thread given more time.=

Regarding compatibility wit= h existing models, I really don't agree at all that the existing RFC mo= dels should constrain what we do when trying to meet the requirements of pe= ople trying to build real systems that use YANG models. =C2=A0 =C2=A0With a= ll respect to the authors of those few models (which we leverage considerab= ly in our models), YANG models are software code, and should be treated as = such IMO.=C2=A0 We don't say that software is "done" and can&= #39;t change -- it evolves and improves over time, sometimes in non-backwar= d-compatible ways.=C2=A0 And we don't issue a final version of software= without considerable experience using and testing it in production.=

thanks.
-- Anees


On Tue,= May 12, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> = wrote:
Hi Xufeng,=C2=A0

My interpretation of the OpenConfig draft is that it recommends option= 1. Actually, option 3 seems like a variation of 1 with some superfluous le= vels.=C2=A0

Thanks,
Acee=C2=A0

From: Xufeng Liu <xufeng.liu@ericsson.com&= gt;
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 4:56= PM
To: Routing YANG <rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org&= gt;
Subject: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operation= al State Modeling

During the YANG MPLS/TE design team discussions, the= topic of operational state modeling was brought up. We discussed the propo= sal presented in http://www.ietf.org/id/dr= aft-openconfig-netmod-opstate-00.txt and some various approaches. Here are some thoughts and questions.

1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Requirements

We agree with the requirements presented in draft-op= enconfig-netmod-opstate. These requirements are summarized as followings.

1.1.Performance Requirement=

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Operational state access is much more frequent than co= nfiguration

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 State data is generally higher volume than configurati= on data

1.2.Data Type Requirements<= /u>

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Representing intended configuration (actual vs. config= ured)

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Derived, negotiated, and system assigned data

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Counters or statistics

1.3.Operation Requirements<= /u>

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Separate configuration and operational state data

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Retrieve configuration and operational state data inde= pendently

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Retrieve derived state and statistics state independen= tly

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Consistent schema locations for configuration and corr= esponding operational state data

2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Some Options

2.1.Option 1

=C2=A0

/routing/routing-instance:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw globals

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw interfaces

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw interface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw interface= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw= config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw capability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref<= /u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw encoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro capability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 id= entityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro encoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 +--rw te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:te-metric<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-= -ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 +--ro te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:te-metric<= u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0+--ro pkts-sent?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:counter32=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--rw tunnels

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw tunnel* [name typ= e]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw= name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0+--rw= config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0 +--rw forwarding

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint3= 2

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 ui= nt32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-= -ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro events?= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 yang:counter32

2.2.Option 2

=C2=A0

/routing/routing-instance:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw globals

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw interfaces

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw interface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw interface= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw switching= -capabilities* [switching-capability]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw c= apability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw e= ncoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw te-metric= ?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:te-metric

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw tunnels

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw tunnel* [name typ= e]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw= name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--rw= admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw= forwarding

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint32

/routing-state/routing-instance:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro globals

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro interfaces

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro interface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro interface= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro switch= ing-capabilities* [switching-capability]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--r= o capability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--r= o encoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro te-met= ric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:te-metric

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro pkts-sent?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:counte= r32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro tunnels

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro tunnel* [name typ= e]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro= name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0string

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-= -ro admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-= -ro forwarding

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro events?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0yang:counter32= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

2.3.Option 3

=C2=A0

/routing/routing-instance:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw globals

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw interfaces

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw interface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw interface= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw= config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0+--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw capability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref<= /u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw encoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro capability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 id= entityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro encoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 +--rw te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:te-metric<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-= -ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 +--ro te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:te-metric

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw tunnels

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw tunnel* [name typ= e]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw= name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw= config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0 +--rw forwarding

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint3= 2

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 ui= nt32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-= -ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0

/routing-state/routing-instance:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro globals

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro interfaces

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro interface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro interface= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro pkts-sent?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:counte= r32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro tunnels

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro tunnel* [name typ= e]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro= name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro events?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:counter32

=C2=A0

3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Approach Rationales

1.1.Performance Requirement=

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Separating configuration and state branches allows imp= lementing state data through a separate fast channel to deliver high freque= nt and high volume data.

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 In this aspect, Option 2 has a clearer separation betw= een configuration and state data, and easier to achieve better performance = by using separate channels.

1.2.Data Type Requirements<= /u>

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Duplicating all configuration attributes makes actual = configuration settings available

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Derived, negotiated, and system assigned data are adde= d to the state branch

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Counters or statistics are added to the state branch

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 All three options satisfy these requirements=

1.3.Operation Requirements<= /u>

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Separating configuration and operational state data al= lows retrieving configuration and operational state data independently.<= /u>

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Separating derived state and statistics state allows r= etrieving them independently

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 The state branch is an exact mirror of the configurati= on branch, so the schema locations are consistent.

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 In this aspect, all three options satisfy the requirem= ents. For option 1, to check the state value for a specific configuration a= ttribute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9Cstate=E2=80=9D to= the end of the schema node path. For option 2, to check the state value for a specific configuration attrib= ute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9C-state=E2=80=9D suffix= to the name of the top container. Option 1 seems to be easiest in this reg= ard, but others are acceptable?

1.4.Other Requirements<= u>

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Model system created read-only objects (e.g. TE tunnel= s). When state data and config data share the same parent, they share the s= ame key for the parent list. Even though that the state branch is read-only= , its parent is not and the key of the parent is not. Therefore, we will have difficulty to ac= hieve this in Option 1.

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Compatible with the existing models. The related model= s include RFC7223, RFC7277 and draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-18. In this as= pect, Option 2 seems to do better.

Your comments and preferences are appreciated.

Thanks,

=C2=A0

- Xufeng

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord


--001a1134e9a0b4bd780515f1e1d6-- From nobody Wed May 13 03:35:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549C61B2AB6 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 03:35:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.86 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WWS565MrMGx9 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 03:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2146C1B2ABA for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 03:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1485765; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:35:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id zUXaZP_KscPz; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:35:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:35:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00C7F2002B; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:35:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 66TKMIuFnbQ8; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:35:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C92020013; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:35:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 105C23332684; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:35:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 12:35:11 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Anees Shaikh Message-ID: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Anees Shaikh , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Xufeng Liu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Xufeng Liu Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 10:35:22 -0000 On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 12:51:41AM -0700, Anees Shaikh wrote: > > Regarding compatibility with existing models, I really don't agree at all > that the existing RFC models should constrain what we do when trying to > meet the requirements of people trying to build real systems that use YANG > models. With all respect to the authors of those few models (which we > leverage considerably in our models), YANG models are software code, and > should be treated as such IMO. We don't say that software is "done" and > can't change -- it evolves and improves over time, sometimes in > non-backward-compatible ways. And we don't issue a final version of > software without considerable experience using and testing it in production. > Standards and software are not the same. The value of standards is that they provide a stable basis. In other words, the value of standards is that they do not change every other day. Yes, you can rewrite standardized data models but the cost of doing so is high and hence the benefit of rewriting something must be high. I do not see this here - not even remotely. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed May 13 06:13:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7786F1A9170 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 06:13:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i4YN1YtDDGWF for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 06:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (unknown [50.255.148.178]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453ED1A876E for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 06:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [50.255.148.181]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D1534922D4; Wed, 13 May 2015 09:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 09:13:37 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Xufeng Liu , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Anees Shaikh Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 13:13:39 -0000 Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, that = does not mean that existing models can never be refactored.=20 =E2=80=94Tom > On May 13, 2015:6:35 AM, at 6:35 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 12:51:41AM -0700, Anees Shaikh wrote: >>=20 >> Regarding compatibility with existing models, I really don't agree at = all >> that the existing RFC models should constrain what we do when trying = to >> meet the requirements of people trying to build real systems that use = YANG >> models. With all respect to the authors of those few models (which = we >> leverage considerably in our models), YANG models are software code, = and >> should be treated as such IMO. We don't say that software is "done" = and >> can't change -- it evolves and improves over time, sometimes in >> non-backward-compatible ways. And we don't issue a final version of >> software without considerable experience using and testing it in = production. >>=20 >=20 > Standards and software are not the same. The value of standards is > that they provide a stable basis. In other words, the value of > standards is that they do not change every other day. Yes, you can > rewrite standardized data models but the cost of doing so is high and > hence the benefit of rewriting something must be high. I do not see > this here - not even remotely. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >=20 From nobody Wed May 13 09:04:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E9A1A8A6B for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 09:04:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LJlXpgwgS_XZ for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 09:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f169.google.com (mail-lb0-f169.google.com [209.85.217.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9657E1A8A58 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 09:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbqq2 with SMTP id qq2so33081162lbb.3 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 09:04:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=nutx3qUU4HeX/jF/AbqH2eE++0CY9Muuv8gHr4K4mA4=; b=WHKki2f4KdA/57K2ZOyh3sBlEd69khbdVxEcJdv2JEstuluHsaNYfu+O5pnfeee/ru I+Ik6HCqNrEZvfbsDPdJnNBC1UdWgqPDhaVhWEej1SDQPwU+El38ppfFCcxuaVrpyFUP tbbTWCg6wZjq/b4JqKq4mJEMs5liIRIQNdElRAgQOvIJzXkSoTuLe9snJQ3Ay/w/LG+D /8XFXk9Nmbz1cFD1XZS2o53L761JXRvuQDTPyViZcgIVdDtIlkGc8aU+Eq4eNVPefTC5 ssXeraqwX2tQQWzUWd/TljKETEzqe+sKH7K+aHipYvYICyrEzD8qEgM8yhIPyZbAboxz w0Gg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQngd0ucix5LVTjEaFMIBq3jUfhXH6Brr1a3Kjpxx7IT84+vif6XCh/3dR2zQCnDFHmtUM1Q MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.199.195 with SMTP id jm3mr16614975lbc.38.1431533050086; Wed, 13 May 2015 09:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.200.102 with HTTP; Wed, 13 May 2015 09:04:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 09:04:09 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Anees Shaikh , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Xufeng Liu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 16:04:13 -0000 On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 12:51:41AM -0700, Anees Shaikh wrote: >> >> Regarding compatibility with existing models, I really don't agree at all >> that the existing RFC models should constrain what we do when trying to >> meet the requirements of people trying to build real systems that use YANG >> models. With all respect to the authors of those few models (which we >> leverage considerably in our models), YANG models are software code, and >> should be treated as such IMO. We don't say that software is "done" and >> can't change -- it evolves and improves over time, sometimes in >> non-backward-compatible ways. And we don't issue a final version of >> software without considerable experience using and testing it in production. >> > > Standards and software are not the same. The value of standards is > that they provide a stable basis. In other words, the value of > standards is that they do not change every other day. Yes, you can > rewrite standardized data models but the cost of doing so is high and > hence the benefit of rewriting something must be high. I do not see > this here - not even remotely. > +1 YANG already has a config-stmt to identify configuration nodes. Extra non-presence containers throughout the data model for "config" and "state" adds clutter and extra complexity. Replication of data nodes increases implementation costs. The association between "turn a config knob here" and "observe a state change there" is usually more complex than this draft supports. > /js Andy > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord From nobody Wed May 13 14:39:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536381A90DB for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:39:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jo9kIrketbTy for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B15BA1AD0C9 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:39:13 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79086d000001909-b4-55536007085c Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 66.5F.06409.70063555; Wed, 13 May 2015 16:30:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Wed, 13 May 2015 17:39:11 -0400 From: Xufeng Liu To: Anees Shaikh , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Thread-Topic: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling Thread-Index: AQHQjPpRkKpDh+jYTPGkN01wChYhCZ15zGWAgAB9IvA= Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 21:39:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AAB1CC9C17CBA440BDFA169056B93B9EBE92D4eusaamb107ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlC5HQnCowfEuIYuNOxUtJr+dx2zx +/ltZgdmjym/N7J6LNhU6rFkyU+mAOYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsEroybO1YxF0zaxlZx4Pw0tgbG LwvYuhg5OSQETCSuzv7HDmGLSVy4tx4ozsUhJHCUUeL66qdQznJGiRNXH7B0MXJwsAloSVx+ 6ghiigj4ShztrgDpZRYwl1izaB0jiC0sYCFx7ehaNogSS4ne/4UgYREBK4mPB/8xgdgsAqoS XzYeYwGxeQW8JW7POgt2jpBAkcS9XxfBbE6BQIk9d3aC1TMCnfb91BomiFXiEreezGeCOFlA Ysme88wQtqjEy8f/WCFsRYl9/dPZIerzJU4ea4XaJShxcuYTlgmMorOQjJqFpGwWkrJZQB8w C2hKrN+lD1GiKDGl+yE7hK0h0TpnLjuy+AJG9lWMHKXFqWW56UaGmxiBMXZMgs1xB+OCT5aH GAU4GJV4eB+UB4UKsSaWFVfmHmKU5mBREuctu3IwREggPbEkNTs1tSC1KL6oNCe1+BAjEwen VANjygIl6QBt5++MWgvDn4hzMZ94OePJWUc5D2Fed8v1E/jNDV6HOnuunlH/VmzRBJfJx4Q0 ZYO+3WqL3yK355v2fCOrCpaFtkkFRiIsE9j2C272eqpSuTTDRuWRhnumaJvEgcmb71Ve2xB4 ZdtVr5LjV/2WlwovPnr8boLC96On2azdBP5lnXumxFKckWioxVxUnAgAl2YHvpICAAA= Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 21:39:19 -0000 --_000_AAB1CC9C17CBA440BDFA169056B93B9EBE92D4eusaamb107ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgQW5lZXMsDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIHJlcGxpZXMuIEhhdmUgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgY29t bWVudHMgYmVsb3cuDQoNCkJlc3QsDQoNCi0gWHVmZW5nDQoNCkZyb206IEFuZWVzIFNoYWlraCBb bWFpbHRvOmFhc2hhaWtoQGdvb2dsZS5jb21dDQpTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIE1heSAxMywgMjAx NSAzOjUyIEFNDQpUbzogQWNlZSBMaW5kZW0gKGFjZWUpDQpDYzogWHVmZW5nIExpdTsgUnRnLXlh bmctY29vcmRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbUnRnLXlhbmctY29vcmRdIE9wZXJhdGlv 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Nadeau" , Juergen Schoenwaelder Thread-Topic: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling Thread-Index: AQHQjPpRkKpDh+jYTPGkN01wChYhCZ15zGWAgAAtroCAACxEgIAAS2qQ Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 22:01:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPt25QYXCowb4fzBYbdypaTH47j9ni 6safjBa/n99mtng4+RK7A6vHlN8bWT0WbCr1WLLkJ5PHhgOeHlufLGEPYI3isklJzcksSy3S t0vgyli2YyVrwRqpiom3JjM1MF6R7GLk5JAQMJG4e+0MI4QtJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBo4wSR07d YANJCAksZ5SYuIavi5GDg01AS+LyU0eQsIhAgcS73j3MIPXMAi2MEq0vpjCDJIQFLCSuHV3L BlIvImAp0fu/EKLeTeL9ypXsIDaLgKrExMVbmEFKeAW8JWZPCoBYe5lR4tzGjywgNZwCzhIX /xwGu40R6Lbvp9YwgdjMAuISt57MZ4K4WUBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx/9YIWxFiX3909lB5jMLaEqs 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ID4gUnRnLXlhbmctY29vcmQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gUnRnLXlhbmctY29vcmRAaWV0Zi5v cmcNCj4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3J0Zy15YW5nLWNv b3JkDQo+ID4NCg0K From nobody Thu May 14 11:07:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6EB1A902B for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 11:07:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JPeARajVWcnm for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 11:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x236.google.com (mail-ig0-x236.google.com 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([2620:0:1000:3202:94a5:c8:2f94:7c5d]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p74sm16980534ioe.27.2015.05.14.11.07.35 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 May 2015 11:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: aldrin ietf In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 11:07:34 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Anees Shaikh , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Xufeng Liu Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 18:07:38 -0000 That is the case we are making with openconfig model. Details are in the draft on why it is helpful from operational = perspective. One do not want to create standards which are not operationally = effective. -sam > On May 13, 2015, at 6:13 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, that = does not mean that existing models can never be refactored.=20 >=20 > =E2=80=94Tom >=20 >=20 >> On May 13, 2015:6:35 AM, at 6:35 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>=20 >> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 12:51:41AM -0700, Anees Shaikh wrote: >>>=20 >>> Regarding compatibility with existing models, I really don't agree = at all >>> that the existing RFC models should constrain what we do when trying = to >>> meet the requirements of people trying to build real systems that = use YANG >>> models. With all respect to the authors of those few models = (which we >>> leverage considerably in our models), YANG models are software code, = and >>> should be treated as such IMO. We don't say that software is "done" = and >>> can't change -- it evolves and improves over time, sometimes in >>> non-backward-compatible ways. And we don't issue a final version of >>> software without considerable experience using and testing it in = production. >>>=20 >>=20 >> Standards and software are not the same. The value of standards is >> that they provide a stable basis. In other words, the value of >> standards is that they do not change every other day. Yes, you can >> rewrite standardized data models but the cost of doing so is high and >> hence the benefit of rewriting something must be high. I do not see >> this here - not even remotely. >>=20 >> /js >>=20 >> --=20 >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | = Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord From nobody Thu May 14 16:51:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D5C1ACEEB for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 16:51:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J7pcwgo7V67s for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 16:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x235.google.com (mail-oi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 528791B2D55 for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 16:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oign205 with SMTP id n205so68576840oig.2 for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 16:51:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NFsoNALcOT9+a6OhQQ7Ovg6kIf/5MXj4a04ZxR76KBA=; b=cJtID49fLyzglyXY6KSmaP06U3nwmf2jpjbYJEzkozAsNszquqqe3WcqMVs7pgLKQu sTmxRF+mzbVnUdKK6bijnQKIHol4IdoNoAgbuEF3bYkGa+FC07E4Fx3uw2WxCkxv4/u4 2+p+SnpTycpqV4BPurFFLVbKtIMlb1WLNt3V9pEFKdsVI19y1zMZ+8t9Yp86VI/1Ri4N bRaBU4EO6BoDCAZnfVGY5Glu3bgVzN/+UPPIk/0fPqK1z4qmdMz9+98hV1ohm7QUwHNh 8eH4Q9i8QEad0eC9n+H31Sqdv0xzhKU5WCQnEoyo8y2VO+bp4PLCpU6rBDiBrVqLZq2X dBmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=NFsoNALcOT9+a6OhQQ7Ovg6kIf/5MXj4a04ZxR76KBA=; b=Hs7tk1613yeYGal8K+dj1foHbeCjEqXqsdAIjXFaO4KS4/4qU5WVC4wsm8SetrPBdD AC6AJS7wPW+X64PpbTWoAuMsgJTx7sP8gFIr8n53zporDVczvHqal+4FqmklVnfQV7N6 fZJ1oCbhrgaVjlLYoAJTYNYfI2H+D1gbBmdGWRjvHPAwYUXZhVxIzVffepJI1LYmGhkA DOJy50XdnKmVGnfutj7sR9JF9GRG/j1wHeAOR2nJMGqZLOezfWIBJ7nSSvwb6Xf+DsKa RU5k2DJynXFt8ilTjdINvdbEuYFHzoufT4tpqVJlIF6ZI7qeqabkLCxN7Q9Z20jpvPl5 xXpA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm1tac2Ny0WzWX7hrStfxjRGor1MQvd6RdxiLQ3bQs/jLU4ZXUZNQ7mLzGN204SOCThix2C MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.187.138 with SMTP id l132mr5432196oif.31.1431647470460; Thu, 14 May 2015 16:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.220.200 with HTTP; Thu, 14 May 2015 16:51:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 16:51:10 -0700 Message-ID: From: Anees Shaikh To: Xufeng Liu Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ccf4aebe1ea0516136603 Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 23:51:17 -0000 --001a113ccf4aebe1ea0516136603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xufeng, thanks -- my responses below. On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Xufeng Liu wrote= : > Hi Anees, > > > > Thanks for the replies. Have a couple of comments below. > > > > Best, > > > > - Xufeng > > > > *From:* Anees Shaikh [mailto:aashaikh@google.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2015 3:52 AM > *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) > *Cc:* Xufeng Liu; Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling > > > > Xufeng, thanks very much for taking the time to do this systematic > analysis -- much appreciated. We've also talked to a subset of the > MPLS/TE DT just today about opstate to reiterate the reasons for the > OpenConfig proposal. I will just comment on your rationale section. > > > > 1.1 Performance requirements > > > > Implementations today already support the retrieval of operational state > and configuration data together. In fact, platforms that support NETCONF > would need to handle both simultaneously in a request. The > request does not return opstate at all. There is no option > today for to retrieve only state (though our draft > proposes, or more accurately, re-proposes it). The performance > implications may be due to the datastore design for the different types o= f > data, but where the data lives in the *schema* should not have a major > impact on the performance to read it. In other words, if you accept the > requirement that configuration needs to be part of state (which you seem = to > in the beginning of the note), > > *[Xufeng] Even though the same config attributes appear in the state > branch, they may not be taken from the configuration database, but taken > from internal memory so as to retrieve the applied or negotiated values. = * > > then the location in the schema really shouldn't matter. It does matter > for other reasons (see below). > I agree that config-related state values may come from some alternate data store but I'm not sure this changes the main point, i.e., that which datastore the data comes from is separable from where it lies in the schema. And with NETCONF, assuming you'd want to support that model, there is already the requirement to be able to return both configuration and state. > > > 1.2 Data type requirements -- agree with your conclusions > > > > 1.3 Operation requirements > > > > You mention, "*For option 2, to check the state value for a specific > configuration attribute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9C= -state=E2=80=9D > suffix to the name of the top container*" > > > > The question that this doesn't answer is what is the top container? It > may be clear in an individual model, but I don't manage a device using ju= st > routing, or just interfaces. I want to compose a set of models into a > coherent whole and be able to access config and corresponding state in a > consistent way. When I compose the models, what I thought was the "top" > container is no longer top -- it shows up somewhere in the middle, and my > paths are now totally dependent on how modelers have decided to combine o= r > separate their individual models and modules. From our perspective, opti= on > 2 doesn't meet this requirement. Rather than debate what the real top of= a > usable model is, we take the approach of pushing the separation to leaves > of the tree, which works no matter how models are composed structurally. > > *[Xufeng] I=E2=80=99d like to see an example of your composed structure. = Currently > YANG does not allow you to mount a schema tree to another location. If it > were allowed, the mounting process would be possible to process the split > point and relocate it to the top.* > Have a look at draft-openconfig-netmod-model-structure -- that doc motivates the need for a composed model to represent an entire device, for example, and a couple of options for doing the composition. We don't need to use mount points or anything special, just imports and/or augments. Again, placing the config/state separation at the leaves of the tree avoids the need to relocate anything when composing models. > > 1.4 Other requirements > > > > Regarding system-created tunnels, why is it necessary to consider them > part of read-only state? I can just as well consider them as configured, > only they are configured by some agent on the system -- they should in fa= ct > be configured using the same mechanism as a tunnel configured by an > operator. If they are not writable, *and you want to enforce this in th= e > model*, they could show up in only the state part of the tree -- I agree > this does raise the issue with list keys that you mention. But list keys > (and lists in general) are a bit broken in YANG 1.0/1.1 as we explain > briefly in the draft. We can discuss the issues with lists in a separate > thread given more time. > > *[Xufeng] I think that the proposed list key change is rather dramatic. > Our model would better be based on the current YANG version. I=E2=80=99d = not want > to want to have a model base on a non-existing feature.* > Yes, agree that fixing YANG lists will take a while, but I would reiterate that distinguishing elements that are configured by users vs. configured by the system is a bit artificial. And I'm not sure we want to be so prescriptive in models so as to require system-configured items to be read-only. Some implementations may allow a user to reconfigure them. I would rather perhaps add a leaf that indicates the source of the config. > > > > On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) > wrote: > > Hi Xufeng, > > > > My interpretation of the OpenConfig draft is that it recommends option 1. > Actually, option 3 seems like a variation of 1 with some superfluous > levels. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > *From: *Xufeng Liu > *Date: *Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 4:56 PM > *To: *Routing YANG > *Subject: *[Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling > > > > During the YANG MPLS/TE design team discussions, the topic of > operational state modeling was brought up. We discussed the proposal > presented in http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate-00.tx= t > and some various approaches. Here are some thoughts and questions. > 1. Requirements > > We agree with the requirements presented in > draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate. These requirements are summarized as > followings. > 1.1.Performance Requirement > > =C2=B7 Operational state access is much more frequent than > configuration > > =C2=B7 State data is generally higher volume than configuratio= n data > 1.2.Data Type Requirements > > =C2=B7 Representing intended configuration (actual vs. configu= red) > > =C2=B7 Derived, negotiated, and system assigned data > > =C2=B7 Counters or statistics > 1.3.Operation Requirements > > =C2=B7 Separate configuration and operational state data > > =C2=B7 Retrieve configuration and operational state data > independently > > =C2=B7 Retrieve derived state and statistics state independent= ly > > =C2=B7 Consistent schema locations for configuration and > corresponding operational state data > 2. Some Options 2.1.Option 1 > > > > /routing/routing-instance: > > +--rw te! > > +--rw globals > > +--rw interfaces > > | +--rw interface* [interface] > > | +--rw interface if:interface-ref > > +--rw config > > | +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] > > +--rw config > > | | +--rw capability? identityref > > | | +--rw encoding? identityref > > *+--ro state* > > * | +--ro capability? identityref* > > * | +--ro encoding? identityref* > > | +--rw te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric > > *+--ro state* > > * | +--ro te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric* > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro pkts-sent? yang:counter32 > > +--rw tunnels > > +--rw tunnel* [name type] > > +--rw name string > > +--rw config > > | +--rw admin-status? identityref > > | +--rw forwarding > > +--rw config > > | +--rw load-share? uint32 > > * +--ro state* > > * | +--ro load-share? uint32* > > * +--ro state* > > * +--ro admin-status? identityref* > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro events? yang:counter32 > 2.2.Option 2 > > > > /routing/routing-instance: > > +--rw te! > > +--rw globals > > +--rw interfaces > > | +--rw interface* [interface] > > | +--rw interface if:interface-ref > > | +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] > > | | +--rw capability? identityref > > | | +--rw encoding? identityref > > | +--rw te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric > > +--rw tunnels > > +--rw tunnel* [name type] > > +--rw name string > > +--rw admin-status? identityref > > +--rw forwarding > > +--rw load-share? uint32 > > /routing-state/routing-instance: > > +--ro te! > > +--ro globals > > +--ro interfaces > > | +--ro interface* [interface] > > | +--ro interface if:interface-ref > > * | +--ro switching-capabilities* [switching-capability]* > > * | | +--ro capability? identityref* > > * | | +--ro encoding? identityref* > > * | +--ro te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric* > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro pkts-sent? yang:counter32 > > +--ro tunnels > > +--ro tunnel* [name type] > > +--ro name string > > * +--ro admin-status? identityref* > > * +--ro forwarding* > > * +--ro load-share? uint32* > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro events? yang:counter32 > > > 2.3.Option 3 > > > > /routing/routing-instance: > > +--rw te! > > +--rw globals > > +--rw interfaces > > | +--rw interface* [interface] > > | +--rw interface if:interface-ref > > +--rw config > > | +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability] > > +--rw config > > | | +--rw capability? identityref > > | | +--rw encoding? identityref > > * +--ro state* > > * | +--ro capability? identityref* > > * | +--ro encoding? identityref* > > | +--rw te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric > > * +--ro state* > > * | +--ro te-metric? ietf-te-types:te-metric* > > +--rw tunnels > > +--rw tunnel* [name type] > > +--rw name string > > +--rw config > > | +--rw admin-status? identityref > > | +--rw forwarding > > +--rw config > > | +--rw load-share? uint32 > > * +--ro state* > > * | +--ro load-share? uint32* > > *+--ro state* > > * +--ro admin-status? identityref* > > > > /routing-state/routing-instance: > > +--ro te! > > +--ro globals > > +--ro interfaces > > | +--ro interface* [interface] > > | +--ro interface if:interface-ref > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro pkts-sent? yang:counter32 > > +--ro tunnels > > +--ro tunnel* [name type] > > +--ro name string > > +--ro oper-status? enumeration > > +--ro counters > > +--ro events? yang:counter32 > > > 3. Approach Rationales 1.1.Performance Requirement > > =C2=B7 Separating configuration and state branches allows > implementing state data through a separate fast channel to deliver high > frequent and high volume data. > > =C2=B7 In this aspect, Option 2 has a clearer separation betwe= en > configuration and state data, and easier to achieve better performance by > using separate channels. > 1.2.Data Type Requirements > > =C2=B7 Duplicating all configuration attributes makes actual > configuration settings available > > =C2=B7 Derived, negotiated, and system assigned data are added= to > the state branch > > =C2=B7 Counters or statistics are added to the state branch > > =C2=B7 All three options satisfy these requirements > 1.3.Operation Requirements > > =C2=B7 Separating configuration and operational state data all= ows > retrieving configuration and operational state data independently. > > =C2=B7 Separating derived state and statistics state allows > retrieving them independently > > =C2=B7 The state branch is an exact mirror of the configuratio= n > branch, so the schema locations are consistent. > > =C2=B7 In this aspect, all three options satisfy the requireme= nts. > For option 1, to check the state value for a specific configuration > attribute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9Cstate=E2=80=9D= to the end of the > schema node path. For option 2, to check the state value for a specific > configuration attribute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9C= -state=E2=80=9D > suffix to the name of the top container. Option 1 seems to be easiest in > this regard, but others are acceptable? > 1.4.Other Requirements > > =C2=B7 Model system created read-only objects (e.g. TE tunnel= s). > When state data and config data share the same parent, they share the sam= e > key for the parent list. Even though that the state branch is read-only, > its parent is not and the key of the parent is not. Therefore, we will ha= ve > difficulty to achieve this in Option 1. > > =C2=B7 Compatible with the existing models. The related model= s > include RFC7223, RFC7277 and draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-18. In this > aspect, Option 2 seems to do better. > > Your comments and preferences are appreciated. > > Thanks, > > > > - Xufeng > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord > > > --001a113ccf4aebe1ea0516136603 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Xufeng, thanks -- my responses below.

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:39 PM, X= ufeng Liu <xufeng.liu@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi Anees,

=C2=A0

Thanks for the replies. H= ave a couple of comments below.

=C2=A0

Best,

=C2=A0

- Xufeng

=C2=A0

From: Anees Sh= aikh [mailto:aasha= ikh@google.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 3:52 AM
To: Acee Lindem (acee)
Cc: Xufeng Liu; Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling

=C2=A0

Xufeng, thanks very much for taking the time to do t= his systematic analysis -- much appreciated. =C2=A0 We've also talked t= o a subset of the MPLS/TE DT just today about opstate to reiterate the reas= ons for the OpenConfig proposal.=C2=A0 I will just comment on your rationale section.

=C2=A0

1.1 Performance requirements

=C2=A0

Implementations today already support the retrieval = of operational state and configuration data together.=C2=A0 In fact, platfo= rms that support NETCONF would need to handle both simultaneously in a <= get> request.=C2=A0 The <get-config> request does not return opstate at all.=C2=A0 There is no option today for <get-oper= ational> to retrieve only state (though our draft proposes, or more accu= rately, re-proposes it).=C2=A0 The performance implications may be due to t= he datastore design for the different types of data, but where the data lives in the *schema* should not have a major impact on= the performance to read it.=C2=A0 In other words, if you accept the requir= ement that configuration needs to be part of state (which you seem to in th= e beginning of the note),

[Xufeng] Eve= n though the same config attributes appear in the state branch, they may no= t be taken from the configuration database, but taken from internal memory so as to retrieve the applied or negotiated values. <= /span>

then the location in the schema really shouldn't= matter.=C2=A0 It does matter for other reasons (see below).


I agree that con= fig-related state values may come from some alternate data store but I'= m not sure this changes the main point, i.e., that which datastore the data= comes from is separable from where it lies in the schema.=C2=A0 And with N= ETCONF, assuming you'd want to support that model, there is already the= requirement to be able to return both configuration and state.
= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

1.2 Data type requirements -- agree with your conclu= sions

=C2=A0

1.3 Operation requirements

=C2=A0

You mention, "For option 2, to check the state value for a specific configuration attri= bute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9C-state=E2=80=9D suffi= x to the name of the top container"

=C2=A0

The question that th= is doesn't answer is what is the top container?=C2=A0 It may be clear i= n an individual model, but I don't manage a device using just routing, = or just interfaces.=C2=A0 I want to compose a set of models into a coherent whole and be able to access config and corresponding state= in a consistent way.=C2=A0 When I compose the models, what I thought was t= he "top" container is no longer top -- it shows up somewhere in t= he middle, and my paths are now totally dependent on how modelers have decided to combine or separate their individual model= s and modules.=C2=A0 From our perspective, option 2 doesn't meet this r= equirement.=C2=A0 Rather than debate what the real top of a usable model is= , we take the approach of pushing the separation to leaves of the tree, which works no matter how models are composed struc= turally.

[Xufeng] I= =E2=80=99d like to see an example of your composed structure. Currently YAN= G does not allow you to mount a schema tree to another location. If it were allowed, the mounting process would be possible to process the split point= and relocate it to the top.


Have a look at draft-openconfig-netmod-m= odel-structure -- that doc motivates the need for a composed model to repre= sent an entire device, for example, and a couple of options for doing the c= omposition.=C2=A0 We don't need to use mount points or anything special= , just imports and/or augments.=C2=A0 Again, placing the config/state separ= ation at the leaves of the tree avoids the need to relocate anything when c= omposing models.

=C2=A0

1.4 Other requiremen= ts

=C2=A0

Regarding system-cre= ated tunnels, why is it necessary to consider them part of read-only state?= =C2=A0 I can just as well consider them as configured, only they are config= ured by some agent on the system -- they should in fact be configured using the same mechanism as a tunnel configur= ed by an operator. =C2=A0 If they are not writable, *and you want to enforc= e this in the model*, they could show up in only the state part of the tree= -- I agree this does raise the issue with list keys that you mention.=C2=A0 But list keys (and lists in general= ) are a bit broken in YANG 1.0/1.1 as we explain briefly in the draft.=C2= =A0 We can discuss the issues with lists in a separate thread given more ti= me.

[Xufeng] I t= hink that the proposed list key change is rather dramatic. Our model would = better be based on the current YANG version. I=E2=80=99d not want to want to have a model base on a non-existing feature.


Yes, agree that fixi= ng YANG lists will take a while, but I would reiterate that distinguishing = elements that are configured by users vs. configured by the system is a bit= artificial.=C2=A0 And I'm not sure we want to be so prescriptive in mo= dels so as to require system-configured items to be read-only.=C2=A0 Some i= mplementations may allow a user to reconfigure them.=C2=A0 I would rather p= erhaps add a leaf that indicates the source of the config.



=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) = <acee@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:

Hi Xufeng,=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0=

My interpretation of the Op= enConfig draft is that it recommends option 1. Actually, option 3 seems lik= e a variation of 1 with some superfluous levels.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Thanks,

Acee=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

From: Xufeng Liu <xufeng.liu@ericsson.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 4:56 PM
To: Routing YANG <rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org>
Subject: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling

=C2=A0=

During the YANG MPLS/TE = design team discussions, the topic of operational state modeling was brough= t up. We discussed the proposal presented in http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-openconfig-ne= tmod-opstate-00.txt and some various approaches. Here are some thoughts and questions.<= /span>

1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Requirements

We agree with the requir= ements presented in draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate. These requirements are= summarized as followings.

1.1.Performance Requirement<= u>

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Operational state access is much more frequ= ent than configuration

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 State data is generally higher volume than = configuration data

1.2.Data Type Requirements

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Representing intended configuration (actual= vs. configured)

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Derived, negotiated, and system assigned da= ta

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Counters or statistics=

1.3.Operation Requirements

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Separate configuration and operational stat= e data

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Retrieve configuration and operational stat= e data independently

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Retrieve derived state and statistics state= independently

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Consistent schema locations for configurati= on and corresponding operational state data

2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Some Options

2.1.Option 1

=C2=A0

/routing/routing-instance:=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw globals=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw interfaces=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw in= terface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +--rw interface=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capabi= lity]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw capability?=C2= =A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw encoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro ca= pability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro encoding= ?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:= te-metric

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-typ= es:te-metric

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+-= -ro pkts-sent?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:counter32=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--rw tunne= ls

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 +--rw tunnel* [name type]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 st= ring

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0+--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref<= /span>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw forwarding

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw loa= d-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro = load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro admin-status?= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro events?=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= yang:counter32

2.2.Option 2

=C2=A0

/routing/routing-instance:=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw globals=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw interfaces=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw in= terface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +--rw interface=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capability]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw capability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw encoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +--rw te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:te-metric

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw tunnels=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 +--rw tunnel* [name type]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 st= ring

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--rw admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw forwarding

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint3= 2

/routing-state/routing-instance:<= /span>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro globals=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro interfaces=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro in= terface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro interface=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro switching-capabilities* [switching-capability]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro capability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro encoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:te-metric

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro pkts-sent?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:counter32=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro tunnels=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 +--ro tunnel* [name type]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0st= ring

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro forwarding=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 ui= nt32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro events?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0yang:counter32=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

2.3.Option 3

=C2=A0

/routing/routing-instance:=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw globals=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw interfaces=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw in= terface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +--rw interface=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--rw switching-capabilities* [switching-capabi= lity]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw capability?=C2= =A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw encoding?=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro ca= pability?=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro encoding= ?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-types:= te-metric

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro te-metric?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ietf-te-typ= es:te-metric

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw tunnels=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 +--rw tunnel* [name type]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 st= ring

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref<= /span>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw forwarding

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw config

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw loa= d-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro = load-share?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint32

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro state

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro admin-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref

=C2=A0

/routing-state/routing-instance:<= /span>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro te!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro globals=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro interfaces=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro in= terface* [interface]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +--ro interface=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if:interface-ref=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro pkts-sent?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:counter32=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro tunnels=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 +--ro tunnel* [name type]

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 st= ring

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro oper-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 enumeration=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro counters=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro events?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:counter32

=C2=A0

3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Approach Rationales

1.1.Performance Requirement<= u>

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Separating configuration and state branches= allows implementing state data through a separate fast channel to deliver = high frequent and high volume data.

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In this aspect, Option 2 has a clearer sepa= ration between configuration and state data, and easier to achieve better p= erformance by using separate channels.

1.2.Data Type Requirements

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Duplicating all configuration attributes ma= kes actual configuration settings available

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Derived, negotiated, and system assigned da= ta are added to the state branch

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Counters or statistics are added to the sta= te branch

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 All three options satisfy these requirement= s

1.3.Operation Requirements

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Separating configuration and operational st= ate data allows retrieving configuration and operational state data indepen= dently.

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Separating derived state and statistics sta= te allows retrieving them independently

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The state branch is an exact mirror of the = configuration branch, so the schema locations are consistent.

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In this aspect, all three options satisfy t= he requirements. For option 1, to check the state value for a specific conf= iguration attribute, the client software can simply add the =E2=80=9Cstate=E2=80=9D to the end of the schema node path. For option= 2, to check the state value for a specific configuration attribute, the cl= ient software can simply add the =E2=80=9C-state=E2=80=9D suffix to the nam= e of the top container. Option 1 seems to be easiest in this regard, but others are acceptable?

1.4.Other Requirements

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Model system created read-only objects (e.g= . TE tunnels). When state data and config data share the same parent, they = share the same key for the parent list. Even though that the state branch is read-only, its parent is not and the key of the parent= is not. Therefore, we will have difficulty to achieve this in Option 1.=

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Compatible with the existing models. The re= lated models include RFC7223, RFC7277 and draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-18.= In this aspect, Option 2 seems to do better.

Your comments and preferences are appreciated.<= u>

Thanks,

=C2=A0

- Xufeng

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord= @ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord<= /u>

=C2=A0


--001a113ccf4aebe1ea0516136603-- From nobody Fri May 15 01:53:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822B51B2F29 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 01:53:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.86 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RDtk89-Jx-9b for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 01:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C7F51ABD3B for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 01:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D3E8150B; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:52:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id BHM3LyEkHwP3; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:52:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:52:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB062002C; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:52:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yB8KtWDMf8X9; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:52:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877452002B; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:52:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E37103333F44; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:52:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 10:52:28 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Message-ID: <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Anees Shaikh , "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Xufeng Liu References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Xufeng Liu , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Anees Shaikh Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 08:53:00 -0000 On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > > Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, that does not mean that existing models can never be refactored. > Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some definition of nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are talking about APIs here with multiple independent implementations and applications sitting on top of these APIs. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri May 15 06:35:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033521A8991 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 06:35:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y_JXz0fZxCam for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 06:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B4C1A893B for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 06:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dex.local.chopps.org (c-68-61-203-90.hsd1.mi.comcast.net [68.61.203.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 62BA66003C; Fri, 15 May 2015 13:34:11 +0000 (UTC) References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> From: Christian Hopps To: Juergen Schoenwaelder In-reply-to: <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 09:34:10 -0400 Message-ID: <87h9revub1.fsf@chopps.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Anees Shaikh , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Xufeng Liu Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 13:35:31 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >> >> Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, that does not mean that existing models can never be refactored. >> > > Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some definition of > nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are talking about APIs here > with multiple independent implementations and applications sitting on > top of these APIs. Isn't the idea to create a common standard way to access state and config? If so I don't think that qualifies as "it looks nicer", rather it allows for creating generic code one time that works on any model including as yet unwritten ones vs. custom code for each model. Thanks, Chris. > > /js From nobody Fri May 15 06:56:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 464B01A90A5 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 06:56:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PmeMW8n797Ie for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 06:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B6131A8F48 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 06:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie.labs.nic.cz (unknown [195.113.220.110]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC37B140AE0; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:56:28 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1431698189; bh=Nwzb/zZwVkrjwuOpw+uHP0Dkh0MS+q/4WbfaxjhYSEU=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=jm36THhPQ5KlXaBkCBpKZQa5S6Ttwubbf+etc/656DYgFFSX2Rm1syssR6cXs2Utr bvjNKet3ZMx/rMjPF08a5UYpfHPSnIQgbUoTx9zjeL5i0PL3aQbc8FP7W6NkEvvAfL 2R3/0Mspt4Fp+xchwooD/X8UMYNNt9dbqVnqHeic= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <87h9revub1.fsf@chopps.org> Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 15:56:28 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6E69983B-7B42-4F35-B46E-832E7576DBA9@nic.cz> References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> <87h9revub1.fsf@chopps.org> To: Christian Hopps X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.6 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Thomas Nadeau , Anees Shaikh , =?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder?= , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Xufeng Liu Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 13:56:34 -0000 > On 15 May 2015, at 15:34, Christian Hopps wrote: >=20 >=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: >=20 >> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >>>=20 >>> Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, that = does not mean that existing models can never be refactored.=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some definition of >> nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are talking about APIs here >> with multiple independent implementations and applications sitting on >> top of these APIs. >=20 >=20 > Isn't the idea to create a common standard way to access state and > config? If so I don't think that qualifies as "it looks nicer", rather > it allows for creating generic code one time that works on any model > including as yet unwritten ones vs. custom code for each model. Well, the existing modules do propose a way to access state and config. = It=E2=80=99s not perfect and perhaps some changes in YANG are needed as = well in order to better support the interaction of config and state. However, I agree with Juergen that the arguments presented so far in = favour of leaf-level duplication aren=E2=80=99t very convincing.=20 Lada >=20 > Thanks, > Chris. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> /js >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri May 15 07:31:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB90F1A8711 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:30:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.86 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O99HukRd8Lli for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 023FA1A016C for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C741614BF; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:30:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id q0KQzQFEG9Z6; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:30:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:30:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665E820039; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:30:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BKO2oBCQcde4; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:30:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA49520013; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:30:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id A559C33343D3; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:30:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 16:30:50 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Christian Hopps Message-ID: <20150515143048.GB4853@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Christian Hopps , "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Anees Shaikh , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Xufeng Liu References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> <87h9revub1.fsf@chopps.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87h9revub1.fsf@chopps.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Xufeng Liu , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Anees Shaikh Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 14:30:58 -0000 On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 09:34:10AM -0400, Christian Hopps wrote: > > Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > > > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > >> > >> Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, that does not mean that existing models can never be refactored. > >> > > > > Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some definition of > > nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are talking about APIs here > > with multiple independent implementations and applications sitting on > > top of these APIs. > > > Isn't the idea to create a common standard way to access state and > config? If so I don't think that qualifies as "it looks nicer", rather > it allows for creating generic code one time that works on any model > including as yet unwritten ones vs. custom code for each model. > If someone things get-state is needed, write an I-D for it. This is not a big deal since NETCONF operations are extensible. Note that this is not refactoring and fine. That said, it is fairly easy to find out where the state data is rooted in a YANG data model. Writing a script to find the state root(s) of a data model is not a big deal. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri May 15 07:37:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4C61A916C for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:37:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GMfpNy-nxs73 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A24A21A90C1 for ; 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Fri, 15 May 2015 14:37:40 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.23]) by xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com ([173.36.12.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:37:40 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Ladislav Lhotka , Christian Hopps Thread-Topic: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling Thread-Index: AQHQjPpRkKpDh+jYTPGkN01wChYhCZ18v+m7gAChmQCAAAY7AP//yICA Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 14:37:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> <87h9revub1.fsf@chopps.org> <6E69983B-7B42-4F35-B46E-832E7576DBA9@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <6E69983B-7B42-4F35-B46E-832E7576DBA9@nic.cz> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <15A0894DDD70D64D894528D764B77196@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Thomas Nadeau , Xufeng Liu , =?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBTY2jDtm53w6RsZGVy?= , Anees Shaikh Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 14:37:44 -0000 DQoNCk9uIDUvMTUvMTUsIDk6NTYgQU0sICJMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EiIDxsaG90a2FAbmljLmN6 PiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPg0KPj4gT24gMTUgTWF5IDIwMTUsIGF0IDE1OjM0LCBDaHJpc3RpYW4gSG9w cHMgPGNob3Bwc0BjaG9wcHMub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiBKdWVyZ2VuIFNjaG9l bndhZWxkZXIgd3JpdGVzOg0KPj4gDQo+Pj4gT24gV2VkLCBNYXkgMTMsIDIwMTUgYXQgMDk6MTM6 MzdBTSAtMDQwMCwgVGhvbWFzIEQuIE5hZGVhdSB3cm90ZToNCj4+Pj4gDQo+Pj4+IAlTcGVha2lu ZyBhcyBhbiBpbmRpdmlkdWFsLCB3aGlsZSB3aGF0IEp1ZXJnZW4gc2F5cyBpcyB0cnVlLCB0aGF0 DQo+Pj4+ZG9lcyBub3QgbWVhbiB0aGF0IGV4aXN0aW5nIG1vZGVscyBjYW4gbmV2ZXIgYmUgcmVm YWN0b3JlZC4NCj4+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gUmVmYWN0b3JpbmcgZm9yIHRoZSBzYWtlIG9mICdp dCBsb29rcyBuaWNlcicgKGZvciBzb21lIGRlZmluaXRpb24gb2YNCj4+PiBuaWNlKSBsaWtlbHkg ZG9lcyBub3QgbWVldCB0aGUgYmFyLiBXZSBhcmUgdGFsa2luZyBhYm91dCBBUElzIGhlcmUNCj4+ PiB3aXRoIG11bHRpcGxlIGluZGVwZW5kZW50IGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9ucyBhbmQgYXBwbGljYXRp b25zIHNpdHRpbmcgb24NCj4+PiB0b3Agb2YgdGhlc2UgQVBJcy4NCj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiBJc24n dCB0aGUgaWRlYSB0byBjcmVhdGUgYSBjb21tb24gc3RhbmRhcmQgd2F5IHRvIGFjY2VzcyBzdGF0 ZSBhbmQNCj4+IGNvbmZpZz8gSWYgc28gSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGF0IHF1YWxpZmllcyBhcyAi aXQgbG9va3MgbmljZXIiLCByYXRoZXINCj4+IGl0IGFsbG93cyBmb3IgY3JlYXRpbmcgZ2VuZXJp YyBjb2RlIG9uZSB0aW1lIHRoYXQgd29ya3Mgb24gYW55IG1vZGVsDQo+PiBpbmNsdWRpbmcgYXMg eWV0IHVud3JpdHRlbiBvbmVzIHZzLiBjdXN0b20gY29kZSBmb3IgZWFjaCBtb2RlbC4NCj4NCj5X ZWxsLCB0aGUgZXhpc3RpbmcgbW9kdWxlcyBkbyBwcm9wb3NlIGEgd2F5IHRvIGFjY2VzcyBzdGF0 ZSBhbmQgY29uZmlnLg0KPkl04oCZcyBub3QgcGVyZmVjdCBhbmQgcGVyaGFwcyBzb21lIGNoYW5n ZXMgaW4gWUFORyBhcmUgbmVlZGVkIGFzIHdlbGwgaW4NCj5vcmRlciB0byBiZXR0ZXIgc3VwcG9y dCB0aGUgaW50ZXJhY3Rpb24gb2YgY29uZmlnIGFuZCBzdGF0ZS4NCj4NCj5Ib3dldmVyLCBJIGFn cmVlIHdpdGggSnVlcmdlbiB0aGF0IHRoZSBhcmd1bWVudHMgcHJlc2VudGVkIHNvIGZhciBpbg0K PmZhdm91ciBvZiBsZWFmLWxldmVsIGR1cGxpY2F0aW9uIGFyZW7igJl0IHZlcnkgY29udmluY2lu Zy4NCg0KSWYgeW91IGxvb2sgYXQgdGhlIGV4aXN0aW5nIElHUCBkcmFmdCBtb2RlbHMsIHRoZSBj b25maWcgc3RhdGUgaXMgYWxzbw0KcHJlc2VudCBpbiB0aGUgb3BlcmF0aW9uYWwgc3RhdGUgc28g dGhpcyBwcm9wb3NhbCBkb2VzbuKAmXQgcmVwcmVzZW50DQphZGRpdGlvbmFsIGxlYWYgbm9kZXMg LSBqdXN0IGEgY2hhbmdlIHRvIHRoZSBvcmdhbml6YXRpb24gdG8gcGxhY2UgdGhlDQpjb25maWcg YW5kIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIHN0YXRlIGFkamFjZW50IHRvIG9uZSBhbm90aGVyIGluIHRoZSB0cmVl Lg0KDQoNCg0KDQo+IA0KPg0KPkxhZGENCj4NCj4+IA0KPj4gVGhhbmtzLA0KPj4gQ2hyaXMuDQo+ PiANCj4+IA0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IC9qcw0KPj4gDQo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gUnRnLXlhbmctY29vcmQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ PiBSdGcteWFuZy1jb29yZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9ydGcteWFuZy1jb29yZA0KPg0KPi0tDQo+TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthLCBDWi5O SUMgTGFicw0KPlBHUCBLZXkgSUQ6IEU3NEU4QzBDDQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQoNCg== From nobody Fri May 15 09:14:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28A91A1B25 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:14:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1nMmcPldEBsE for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidab1.miniserver.com [64.71.170.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFE61A1B17 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:14:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lucidvision.com; s=default; t=1431706427; bh=9vmRrjEBRq0aH8q49F8rjmqtpQT4l9T7F+ogeC07SrM=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=eu3R1YSelT7KNEUc4T1SMAhDe2+IFUNmSVDW89+s04DOExZQ2tJTqBL9IAf1EJcQX IJZnuJl/BreFlMWWrbZCAP+c5eSSDNwP2GPxd62AnYy+HynZ9p8blc1l59ulXESqEx 9mLugRkVkztA9aUqOg/YubG7KJ1yKP7glBSS8FF4= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.255.148.181; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Nadeau Thomas In-Reply-To: <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 12:14:17 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0EDEDDB6-40EA-47AF-AA5A-E7212445CCF8@lucidvision.com> References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Authenticated-User: tnadeau@lucidvision.com X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-MyRbl: Color=Yellow Age=0 Spam=0 Notspam=21 Stars=0 Good=0 Friend=0 Surbl=0 Catch=0 r=0 ip=50.255.148.181 X-IP-stats: Notspam Incoming Last 0, First 0, in=29, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=50.255.148.181 Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Anees Shaikh , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Xufeng Liu Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 16:14:36 -0000 I don=E2=80=99t think the open config guys are asking for = refactoring for purely aesthetic reasons. These guys operate some of the = world=E2=80=99s largest networks with tens of thousands of devices, so = I=E2=80=99d hope that their asking to move things around is in order to = make interacting with those things at that scale better. =E2=80=94Tom > On May 15, 2015:4:52 AM, at 4:52 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >>=20 >> Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, that = does not mean that existing models can never be refactored.=20 >>=20 >=20 > Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some definition of > nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are talking about APIs here > with multiple independent implementations and applications sitting on > top of these APIs. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord From nobody Fri May 15 09:28:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA5B1A1B65 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:28:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6hfc1XHexSu0 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com (mail-la0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 718B51A1BC8 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lagv1 with SMTP id v1so127425077lag.3 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:28:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=M/Ztv8ybH1RKglQ7TzrOjOr6aRhMEv/C7+G1NlFWeh8=; b=DQ/Ybm1lt0ISuaJ6XIgDbd1CVyZ/pF7Lj7cR8nKypOWD2PMc9Qb1uXnHBR4nNK11wU SJQGQOLkzOA7N8wxqnlG0dLYDYiBVqVAdjdp19IApweomdLyF9QBe4RfHfPAKc3U9s6V 6xbh3XsCJgobKX6ct+6Cn73hWxmI4PuwHDJfAW2AN40J+iO1k/28yCO/zQygAavz62F6 JEmMvaZx6361Rg84gzIoAu6hQNVsRqrRXZA6He4QCmQ/uEMUTrJpuQk6lcr1mjLz9RJG QKZ038D9F5rZ0FY8Me4UoWIgm6ApJTVtb3UXOWTDzmkzRGf4tomXs11AX/HCoqfGsXJ5 fVSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlKfnb2Gi9GekJ/xSLwgCeX4Z0R5gunH5qiZyTXXrhrjjrahzEBNI5L1bfnSJEmbNDrC/ES MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.8.231 with SMTP id u7mr4252496laa.37.1431707323943; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.200.102 with HTTP; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:28:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0EDEDDB6-40EA-47AF-AA5A-E7212445CCF8@lucidvision.com> References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> <0EDEDDB6-40EA-47AF-AA5A-E7212445CCF8@lucidvision.com> Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 09:28:43 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Nadeau Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Xufeng Liu , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Anees Shaikh Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 16:28:47 -0000 On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:14 AM, Nadeau Thomas wr= ote: > > I don=E2=80=99t think the open config guys are asking for refacto= ring for purely aesthetic reasons. These guys operate some of the world=E2= =80=99s largest networks with tens of thousands of devices, so I=E2=80=99d = hope that their asking to move things around is in order to make interactin= g with those things at that scale better. > I think Juergen and I and others are pointing out that it would be better to solve this problem by adding an operation to NETCONF. RESTCONF already has the ability to retrieve just "content=3Dnonconfig". Replicating config as operational state in all the data models is not a good idea. Using arbitrary NP containers called "config" and "state" (instead of the YANG config-stmt) is not a good idea. > =E2=80=94Tom Andy > > >> On May 15, 2015:4:52 AM, at 4:52 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> >> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >>> >>> Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, that d= oes not mean that existing models can never be refactored. >>> >> >> Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some definition of >> nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are talking about APIs here >> with multiple independent implementations and applications sitting on >> top of these APIs. >> >> /js >> >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord > > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord From nobody Fri May 15 09:53:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E2921A7013 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:53:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KS_50COJ9HIj for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x230.google.com (mail-ie0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D55251A702B for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ieczm2 with SMTP id zm2so47635852iec.1 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=odhSLaSY8e/IzjQgJWSe5r+8qybg/pQjkdwqETL7EYQ=; b=yEkyi+tr773QSi3Tn6ZTHdmpgeStYSJp82eSVxARRKnGtYF6ZcGIXMG8XoT+wIxKw7 TvCOTjk7Zvo8SpYnqxdKkLyQ3JugDkOUU5jHrNfW3tySDQyixx2tjeu84lrvjyT6dgFI 4lQXPkeDstp4I5A74Axc+ya8j9ZOLM59uhlVFFp7UtlRs/u+FeVxU9d97agyYcPVFrf7 XULiIczQkjK9dd7x72UptMKCenOe7TbXOZqV2IZVEE/3eHLQQgeOCp19cX/tIO2ptV19 YinB877LsKsEWkDPJNLp5GkPvQHvECxZJwGnxJ3HtXz5xzvqO0YBgcSVDPEZUTpzirKY D+VQ== X-Received: by 10.50.6.37 with SMTP id x5mr7247580igx.45.1431708800240; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-172-17-94-207.mtv.corp.google.com ([172.17.94.207]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fm3sm1513500igb.1.2015.05.15.09.53.18 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 15 May 2015 09:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_73D86574-35B0-462B-B485-8F0FE229CE16" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: aldrin ietf In-Reply-To: <0EDEDDB6-40EA-47AF-AA5A-E7212445CCF8@lucidvision.com> Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 09:53:17 -0700 Message-Id: <9F69B95B-0873-43F2-BED5-5C49DEB2AC70@gmail.com> References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> <0EDEDDB6-40EA-47AF-AA5A-E7212445CCF8@lucidvision.com> To: Nadeau Thomas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Xufeng Liu , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Anees Shaikh Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 16:53:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_73D86574-35B0-462B-B485-8F0FE229CE16 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 It is totally misconstrued and wrong to think it is being done for the = looks. It is clearly outlined in the draft on = =E2=80=98why?'(>.=20 We, the operator community, are requesting for a reason as outlined in = the draft, to make it operationally efficient, when managing network = @scale. -sam =20 > On May 15, 2015, at 9:14 AM, Nadeau Thomas = wrote: >=20 >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t think the open config guys are asking for = refactoring for purely aesthetic reasons. These guys operate some of the = world=E2=80=99s largest networks with tens of thousands of devices, so = I=E2=80=99d hope that their asking to move things around is in order to = make interacting with those things at that scale better. >=20 > =E2=80=94Tom >=20 >=20 >> On May 15, 2015:4:52 AM, at 4:52 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>=20 >> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >>>=20 >>> Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, that = does not mean that existing models can never be refactored.=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some definition of >> nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are talking about APIs here >> with multiple independent implementations and applications sitting on >> top of these APIs. >>=20 >> /js >>=20 >> --=20 >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | = Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord --Apple-Mail=_73D86574-35B0-462B-B485-8F0FE229CE16 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 It is totally misconstrued and wrong to think it is being = done for the looks. It is clearly outlined in the draft on = =E2=80=98why?'(<http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate= /?include_text=3D1>. 

We, the operator community, are requesting for a reason as = outlined in the draft, to make it operationally efficient, when managing = network @scale.

-sam
 
On = May 15, 2015, at 9:14 AM, Nadeau Thomas <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:


I don=E2=80= =99t think the open config guys are asking for refactoring for purely = aesthetic reasons. These guys operate some of the world=E2=80=99s = largest networks with tens of thousands of devices, so I=E2=80=99d hope = that their asking to move things around is in order to make interacting = with those things at that scale better.

=E2=80=94To= m


On May 15, 2015:4:52 AM, at 4:52 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, = Thomas D. Nadeau wrote:

Speaking as an individual, while = what Juergen says is true, that does not mean that existing models can = never be refactored.


Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some = definition of
nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are = talking about APIs here
with multiple independent = implementations and applications sitting on
top of these = APIs.

/js

-- =
Juergen Schoenwaelder =           Jacobs = University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587 =         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 = Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103 =         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord

_______________________________________________
Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord

= --Apple-Mail=_73D86574-35B0-462B-B485-8F0FE229CE16-- From nobody Fri May 15 10:10:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232E41A8768 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.86 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9VtREz6fOQOj for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F3761A8728 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1DEA1254; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:10:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id EHvydZpdzH15; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:10:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:10:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 282112002C; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:10:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L7WB3o3587Gy; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:10:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3652B2002B; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:10:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 168C933345E8; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:10:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:10:37 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: aldrin ietf Message-ID: <20150515171037.GA5229@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: aldrin ietf , Nadeau Thomas , "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Anees Shaikh , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Xufeng Liu References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> <0EDEDDB6-40EA-47AF-AA5A-E7212445CCF8@lucidvision.com> <9F69B95B-0873-43F2-BED5-5C49DEB2AC70@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <9F69B95B-0873-43F2-BED5-5C49DEB2AC70@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Nadeau Thomas , Xufeng Liu , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Anees Shaikh Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 17:10:46 -0000 On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 09:53:17AM -0700, aldrin ietf wrote: > It is totally misconstrued and wrong to think it is being done for the looks. It is clearly outlined in the draft on ‘why?'(>. > > We, the operator community, are requesting for a reason as outlined in the draft, to make it operationally efficient, when managing network @scale. > I read this I-D and I agree to some what it says. To some of what it says I tend to disagree. My main concern is that trying to infer semantics from structure is - brittle, and - it is for me more than unlikely that all YANG models will follow a common structure. I also do not see anything wrong with the approach taken by RFC 7223 and on the other hand I do see problems with the example shown in section 4 of the I-D (interface/name points to config and hence state is bound to the lifetime of config, a limitation RFC 7223 does not have - you can actually see unconfigured interfaces). The bottom line is that I do not subscribe to all requirements stated in the I-D and I do not subscribe to the solutions proposed. Nor have I seen something that clearly tells me the structure we used in RFC 7223 is broken. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri May 15 10:11:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841001A8773 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:11:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xhpW7psOm9Ym for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidab1.miniserver.com [64.71.170.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5D201A8768 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:11:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lucidvision.com; s=default; t=1431709849; bh=KoXzyiVVl/za8VfwKO+kP+zjabBKak8Pw654vYfpZkU=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=MFFGVv39fNQk/rPI6/WCT/nV0DhgtGtcAvXTHzRlPzRPROyVll//y0hJCzVeIIy8o dr01CygmYw9rHmNqpeL2aVxHd7TqFKvMvatKhJgcuWWTLWW/nezBbzljJyFLL2qTET 4ONJYA8JAr0//LYY2xUUADnX+Lqf9QPTWP2lF4i4= X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.255.148.181; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Nadeau Thomas In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 13:11:22 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> <0EDEDDB6-40EA-47AF-AA5A-E7212445CCF8@lucidvision.com> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Authenticated-User: tnadeau@lucidvision.com X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_relay) X-MyRbl: Color=Yellow Age=0 Spam=0 Notspam=23 Stars=0 Good=0 Friend=0 Surbl=0 Catch=0 r=0 ip=50.255.148.181 X-IP-stats: Notspam Incoming Last 0, First 0, in=31, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=50.255.148.181 Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Xufeng Liu , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Anees Shaikh Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 17:11:39 -0000 > On May 15, 2015:12:28 PM, at 12:28 PM, Andy Bierman = wrote: >=20 > On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:14 AM, Nadeau Thomas = wrote: >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t think the open config guys are asking for = refactoring for purely aesthetic reasons. These guys operate some of the = world=E2=80=99s largest networks with tens of thousands of devices, so = I=E2=80=99d hope that their asking to move things around is in order to = make interacting with those things at that scale better. >>=20 >=20 >=20 > I think Juergen and I and others are pointing out that it > would be better to solve this problem by adding an > operation to NETCONF. RESTCONF already has the > ability to retrieve just "content=3Dnonconfig=E2=80=9D. This is reasonable option/solution. What do the open config = folks think? > Replicating config as operational state in all the data models > is not a good idea. Using arbitrary NP containers called > "config" and "state" (instead of the YANG config-stmt) > is not a good idea. I think you are saying that, but the others are clearly not, so = we need to listen to their reasons before discounting them as less = efficient. Remember that the operators are users not implementing these = models so they need to understand if the boxes/servers they are using = can do this and what the costs are. If after they weigh the relative = costs, they feel the return on that investment in say RAM on those = servers is ok, then we need to think carefully about why we would not = want to support that. Remember, even though you as a server/compiler = vendor might think its not a great idea, they might be willing to pay = the price for say memory, to store the operational state. =E2=80=94Tom >=20 >=20 >> =E2=80=94Tom >=20 > Andy >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On May 15, 2015:4:52 AM, at 4:52 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>>=20 >>> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, = that does not mean that existing models can never be refactored. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some definition of >>> nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are talking about APIs here >>> with multiple independent implementations and applications sitting = on >>> top of these APIs. >>>=20 >>> /js >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | = Germany >>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >>> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord From nobody Fri May 15 15:48:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAEC31A89F9 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:48:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a8ZyqsSbg0tr for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x233.google.com (mail-ig0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2787D1A89F6 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igbpi8 with SMTP id pi8so50403531igb.0 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:48:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=viIchAeOYNn1ebWT0OVHJi1sY4YVy73YMVJaBPjGjAw=; b=EoF08h9mKwuSQOBzzdDMf836dhMm5M9+jtH3Pw0ri6s7KdI9hcDSP98iPmYA498mjq x33cuCynLfAoyXjS8In5L+XC2RpHcsypdHx7NTVupgjForDAwIbQGe3c8qEez/aNHDAx FphsV2c14WAex9KFZAV7YgfrdCIEnbtQBLi58iKxBDfmT7YhcuI5ts6YS7nzVwpKkzK0 zIaiydc7YoBC8vV2ZLxsrTvUIa2Xal50EX49i5OEYR1WTzle26Qlv4xRh+b0FJjZdfAk +tPVd8o3ZHFU23SYOhx/gAgPfkERjNp5kNfARz86SgNmDuldCBUa0y3YLVLOiTGeAHMx jqtw== X-Received: by 10.107.150.14 with SMTP id y14mr13537502iod.55.1431730081551; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620::1000:3202:8858:f013:bd64:d7c? ([2620:0:1000:3202:8858:f013:bd64:d7c]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id rr5sm97697igb.7.2015.05.15.15.48.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 15 May 2015 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_29D62597-0140-4F36-9279-DBABFF227633" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: aldrin ietf In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 15:47:58 -0700 Message-Id: <91F7EF33-5D5F-41B1-A397-9176A49056A6@gmail.com> References: <20150513103509.GA59689@elstar.local> <20150515085228.GA4024@elstar.local> <0EDEDDB6-40EA-47AF-AA5A-E7212445CCF8@lucidvision.com> To: Nadeau Thomas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Anees Shaikh , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , Xufeng Liu Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] Operational State Modeling X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 22:48:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_29D62597-0140-4F36-9279-DBABFF227633 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On May 15, 2015, at 10:11 AM, Nadeau Thomas = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On May 15, 2015:12:28 PM, at 12:28 PM, Andy Bierman = wrote: >>=20 >> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:14 AM, Nadeau Thomas = wrote: >>>=20 >>> I don=E2=80=99t think the open config guys are asking for = refactoring for purely aesthetic reasons. These guys operate some of the = world=E2=80=99s largest networks with tens of thousands of devices, so = I=E2=80=99d hope that their asking to move things around is in order to = make interacting with those things at that scale better. >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I think Juergen and I and others are pointing out that it >> would be better to solve this problem by adding an >> operation to NETCONF. RESTCONF already has the >> ability to retrieve just "content=3Dnonconfig=E2=80=9D. >=20 >=20 > This is reasonable option/solution. What do the open config = folks think? >=20 >> Replicating config as operational state in all the data models >> is not a good idea. Using arbitrary NP containers called >> "config" and "state" (instead of the YANG config-stmt) >> is not a good idea. >=20 > I think you are saying that, but the others are clearly not, so = we need to listen to their reasons before discounting them as less = efficient. Remember that the operators are users not implementing these = models so they need to understand if the boxes/servers they are using = can do this and what the costs are. If after they weigh the relative = costs, they feel the return on that investment in say RAM on those = servers is ok, then we need to think carefully about why we would not = want to support that. Remember, even though you as a server/compiler = vendor might think its not a great idea, they might be willing to pay = the price for say memory, to store the operational state. Tom, We are in continual discussions with various vendors. If there exists, = issues related to this, I am sure they will be brought forth by them for = discussion with the community at large.=20 -sam >=20 > =E2=80=94Tom >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> =E2=80=94Tom >>=20 >> Andy >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On May 15, 2015:4:52 AM, at 4:52 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Speaking as an individual, while what Juergen says is true, = that does not mean that existing models can never be refactored. >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some definition = of >>>> nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are talking about APIs here >>>> with multiple independent implementations and applications sitting = on >>>> top of these APIs. >>>>=20 >>>> /js >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | = Germany >>>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >>>> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >>> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord --Apple-Mail=_29D62597-0140-4F36-9279-DBABFF227633 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On May 15, 2015, at 10:11 AM, Nadeau Thomas <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:



On May 15, 2015:12:28 = PM, at 12:28 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:14 AM, Nadeau Thomas <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:

      I don=E2=80=99t think the = open config guys are asking for refactoring for purely aesthetic = reasons. These guys operate some of the world=E2=80=99s largest networks = with tens of thousands of devices, so I=E2=80=99d hope that their asking = to move things around is in order to make interacting with those things = at that scale better.



I think Juergen and I and others are pointing = out that it
would be better to solve this problem by = adding an
operation to NETCONF.  RESTCONF already has = the
ability to retrieve just "content=3Dnonconfig=E2=80=9D.<= br class=3D"">


This is reasonable option/solution.  What = do the open config folks think?

Replicating config as = operational state in all the data models
is not a good = idea.  Using arbitrary NP containers called
"config" = and "state" (instead of the YANG config-stmt)
is not a = good idea.

I think you are saying that, but the others are = clearly not, so we need to listen to their reasons before discounting = them as less efficient. Remember that the operators are users not = implementing these models so they need to understand if the = boxes/servers they are using can do this and what the costs are. If = after they weigh the relative costs, they feel the return on that = investment in say RAM on those servers is ok, then we need to think = carefully about why we would not want to support that.  Remember, = even though you as a server/compiler vendor might think its not a great = idea, they might be willing to pay the price for say memory, to store = the operational state.
Tom,

We are in continual discussions with various = vendors. If there exists, issues related to this, I am sure they will be = brought forth by them for discussion with the community at = large. 

-sam


= =E2=80=94Tom





      =E2=80=94Tom

Andy



On May 15, 2015:4:52 AM, = at 4:52 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 09:13:37AM -0400, = Thomas D. Nadeau wrote:

   Speaking as an individual, = while what Juergen says is true, that does not mean that existing models = can never be refactored.


Refactoring for the sake of 'it looks nicer' (for some = definition of
nice) likely does not meet the bar. We are = talking about APIs here
with multiple independent = implementations and applications sitting on
top of these = APIs.

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder =           Jacobs = University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587 =         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 = Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103 =         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord

_______________________________________________
Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord

_______________________________________________
Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord=

= --Apple-Mail=_29D62597-0140-4F36-9279-DBABFF227633-- From nobody Wed May 27 05:25:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF5D1ACEED for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 05:25:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.86 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zjVN1RPulK2l for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 05:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D4681ACEEC for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 05:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F98DF71 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 14:25:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id kdFT-aQWUjMZ for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 14:24:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 14:25:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 489892002B for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 14:25:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rgMEBDeg30aN; Wed, 27 May 2015 14:25:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2FA20013; Wed, 27 May 2015 14:25:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 312FF33A6EE4; Wed, 27 May 2015 14:24:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 14:24:56 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Message-ID: <20150527122452.GC41087@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: Subject: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 12:25:05 -0000 Hi, I have read the document and I have a small comment. - You define a list 'prefix' in the list 'prefix-set' which is keyed by three leafs. As a result, all three leafs are mandatory. Your XML instance snipped in section 10 does not validate because it is missing mandatory key elements. I wonder (a) why did you not use inet:ip-prefix instead of the pair inet:ip-address and a unit8 masklength. And given the desire to represent a prefix range, would a special syntax not make sense, e.g. an extension of ip-prefix, lets call it ip-prefix-range, that allows to express a range of prefixes: 10.3.192.0/21-24 -> 10.3.192.0/21 10.3.192.0/22 10.3.192.0/23 10.3.192.0/24 If the '-24' part is made optional, your prefix list will be collapsed to a simple list prefix { key prefix-range; leaf prefix-range { type ip-prefix-range; } } Such an ip-prefix-range type may even be a useful addition to ietf-inet-types. - The XML snippets are nice but it would be cool if they were using proper namespaces and validate against the data model. Perhaps something to consider for -01. The pyang tutorial provides examples how to validate XML snippets against YANG definitions. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed May 27 09:09:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A76311A1ABC for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 09:09:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qvxLtY_vs3SV for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 09:09:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x236.google.com (mail-ob0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 991841A03A1 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 09:09:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbea2 with SMTP id ea2so11264660obb.3 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 09:09:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=lQxKzkgSHuAEo/W4s34BlmyxS2rpR3TpLk1jEg5jaTs=; b=oVUq3o3XyQK8LV/Q9KItixPOT0dkm2KPIOoZWbBVHQTZPLUg17m+KWH/eXkgHVK5U9 +uU8CtMc+bDgtPf5zOeqTQIHRx0ehXtyaLthhaFLaupSm/Q1InqM6TgMY81zRjMeW8Xq h1WZvmnNz6QBVMbS60Lu/a3KobahcpVXJKu6jvvPTQPUDuyPOsmbJ39pae99kDMw3PyX Lhf5jF2N+9rNfqeDQArFYP+qylkUcFbYyGaIod9m1a+EluVYVneAQdEULMeywJpttVf9 vqFl1BwSlF2JkEnFjExqVnxs48iMxvNdGAxi4Dv6OWX01pfIJ3yKgI1BsrJfwOJ3FXe9 svFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=lQxKzkgSHuAEo/W4s34BlmyxS2rpR3TpLk1jEg5jaTs=; b=ITJUoTsSm92RwXCbj+tHv6w/XxVfE7J3DthqzrwX2ja0/dqjj0sTBfi04Aa4xLNsCH Pa2KsBI2fwYqzDMZNwHeJH43jOii30/h3fh7+siXlVDVpZrmqCgr57Y8jHpW7Z48lblx k6prTWWcgFEBslHkvuADJSq0Pwq7H23IfEfZ7TpHI8u9mquMZ0RF47Lc5FeMKzHzo91R BBlILG01UQC/uI38uJ1UMLzjk2E3d3X9lLUu8GKKnuxLIPJzwejOSIOoJHsltbckIoXz SIrNP5oWY1hf+GbQhqqm1nONLqEybnvYUqCoJNBSnvc+NNstrqRpymRk4tostGrvS73g E7Ew== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlYwOOgNLG7SIMuna2jNKiAjITW6YRnQ4JkkXfOISL7fh9Qb9qx3trL0Nu5RtYdlOR2mA+u MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.246.197 with SMTP id xy5mr26151106obc.51.1432742977927; Wed, 27 May 2015 09:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.144.228 with HTTP; Wed, 27 May 2015 09:09:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20150527122452.GC41087@elstar.local> References: <20150527122452.GC41087@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 09:09:37 -0700 Message-ID: From: Anees Shaikh To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1bcc64126ca05171278f0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 16:09:40 -0000 --001a11c1bcc64126ca05171278f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Juergen, you're right that prefix-lists in the model turned out to be a bit problematic as currently defined. We've updated the model in the most recent revision after going through some translations of our configs to the OpenConfig model and running into some issues. The updated version looks more like the following: list prefix { key "address masklength masklength-range"; leaf address { type inet:ip-address; } leaf masklength { type uint8; } leaf masklength-range { type string { pattern '^([0-9]+\.\.[0-9]+)|exact$'; } } } The model used address and a separate masklength so that range checking could be performed on the mask. We've since removed the range-checking in favor of simplifying to keep a single prefix list for both address types, ipv4 and ipv6. The original model had the problem you mention, which is that all keys must be mandatory, including masklength-range, which meant there was no simple way to express an exact prefix other than, e.g., 21..21 which we didn't think was desirable. Changing the masklength-range to a string allows a more flexible pattern (including an 'exact' setting). The masklength-range is included in the keys to make the list have unique members. I think we could also consider your suggestion to use a inet:ip-prefix instead of address since we're not doing range-checking on the masklength in the current approach -- will discuss with the co-authors. Agree with your suggestion to make the XML examples more conformant (they should certainly validate), though we've only been using ad-hoc namespaces for models that are not IETF WG models so far. My understanding is that this is the recommended practice. thanks. -- Anees On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > Hi, > > I have read the document and I have a small comment. > > - You define a list 'prefix' in the list 'prefix-set' which is keyed > by three leafs. As a result, all three leafs are mandatory. Your XML > instance snipped in section 10 does not validate because it is > missing mandatory key elements. I wonder (a) why did you not use > inet:ip-prefix instead of the pair inet:ip-address and a unit8 > masklength. And given the desire to represent a prefix range, would > a special syntax not make sense, e.g. an extension of ip-prefix, > lets call it ip-prefix-range, that allows to express a range of > prefixes: > > 10.3.192.0/21-24 -> 10.3.192.0/21 > 10.3.192.0/22 > 10.3.192.0/23 > 10.3.192.0/24 > > If the '-24' part is made optional, your prefix list will be > collapsed to a simple > > list prefix { > key prefix-range; > > leaf prefix-range { > type ip-prefix-range; > } > } > > Such an ip-prefix-range type may even be a useful addition to > ietf-inet-types. > > - The XML snippets are nice but it would be cool if they were using > proper namespaces and validate against the data model. Perhaps > something to consider for -01. The pyang tutorial provides examples > how to validate XML snippets against YANG definitions. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord > --001a11c1bcc64126ca05171278f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Juergen, you're right that prefix-lists in the model t= urned out to be a bit problematic as currently defined.=C2=A0 We've upd= ated the model in the most recent revision after going through some transla= tions of our configs to the OpenConfig model and running into some issues.= =C2=A0 The updated version looks more like the following:

list prefix {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 key "= ;address masklength masklength-range";

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf address {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type inet:ip-address;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= leaf masklength {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type= uint8;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }

=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf masklength-range {
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type string {
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pattern '^([0-9]+\.\.[0-9]+)|= exact$';
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
}

= The model used address and a separate masklength so that range checking cou= ld be performed on the mask. =C2=A0 We've since removed the range-check= ing in favor of simplifying to keep a single prefix list for both address t= ypes, ipv4 and ipv6.

The original model had the pr= oblem you mention, which is that all keys must be mandatory, including mask= length-range, which meant there was no simple way to express an exact prefi= x other than, e.g., 21..21 which we didn't think was desirable.=C2=A0 C= hanging the masklength-range to a string allows a more flexible pattern (in= cluding an 'exact' setting).=C2=A0 The masklength-range is included= in the keys to make the list have unique members.=C2=A0

I think we could also consider your suggestion to use a inet:ip-pref= ix instead of address since we're not doing range-checking on the maskl= ength in the current approach -- will discuss with the co-authors.

Agree with your suggestion to make the XML examples more c= onformant (they should certainly validate), though we've only been usin= g ad-hoc namespaces for models that are not IETF WG models so far.=C2=A0 My= understanding is that this is the recommended practice.

thanks.
-- Anees
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder= <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> w= rote:
Hi,

I have read the document and I have a small comment.

- You define a list 'prefix' in the list 'prefix-set' which= is keyed
=C2=A0 by three leafs. As a result, all three leafs are mandatory. Your XML=
=C2=A0 instance snipped in section 10 does not validate because it is
=C2=A0 missing mandatory key elements. I wonder (a) why did you not use
=C2=A0 inet:ip-prefix instead of the pair inet:ip-address and a unit8
=C2=A0 masklength. And given the desire to represent a prefix range, would<= br> =C2=A0 a special syntax not make sense, e.g. an extension of ip-prefix,
=C2=A0 lets call it ip-prefix-range, that allows to express a range of
=C2=A0 prefixes:

=C2=A0 10.3.192.0/21-= 24 -> 10.3.192.0/= 21
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 10.3.192.0/22 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 10.3.192.0/23 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 10.3.192.0/24
=C2=A0 If the '-24' part is made optional, your prefix list will be=
=C2=A0 collapsed to a simple

=C2=A0 list prefix {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 key prefix-range;

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf prefix-range {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type ip-prefix-range;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 Such an ip-prefix-range type may even be a useful addition to
=C2=A0 ietf-inet-types.

- The XML snippets are nice but it would be cool if they were using
=C2=A0 proper namespaces and validate against the data model. Perhaps
=C2=A0 something to consider for -01. The pyang tutorial provides examples<= br> =C2=A0 how to validate XML snippets against YANG definitions.

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49= 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Br= emen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<http://www.jacobs-univ= ersity.de/>

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h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=fDKpwFWawAEJTx36yqEn6K9uoCkeY1dsRZt3MrNYPgc=; b=QDPLh9AHay+maL9p4j5TfSXobe2YzhvInWWSJoLar8JHGIQzmlkjI8bOksZ00s5Mmk mJd3+SvrmN2MwUjLitPXPwPbphEwEuioS9K6Cvl6Y/s5KhuDYwVmMnOb+124cC7lJwi2 HoU7NI9B1O6QJcNbYMeKZSNyO5GAznqx7OZQqoW+ARByh9uoQCOJRV8XARuJCZGXADaQ 4hiu0Ns30mEa17HDrLly/OSCy5S7oj0QSn/gpLbMNgNC0WJEGqdj0SoMuy/fB9XgU+kB 3Q4kVemRsoywdjTp1ASqGKaM+977KBzqEMoTAA471K6QD+0KIxnjl/VTZXadWhinLSw7 OE4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=fDKpwFWawAEJTx36yqEn6K9uoCkeY1dsRZt3MrNYPgc=; b=TaZnjKsNtVDHpt9LWmT9ascOvNdjyMpbfowO3Kjzyg1t598lNLZZP3EE24G3MYQy1K pQPkA5EfM2yKm2L28hWIQ9T6+bfVCXZazggImdgTG5KgZau1IZvw0rC8iQUjpp3ajILQ MQuof6Bahietl61d6vb3llS7L1U0J0MXisxwcHe0/PBZeNpRWldFv88j7jfv3bpXhmNa QuKAZxNtDlKt1S3TthEZRTvd1ns7U7+DUwPzBMIjYlzcVnyrPOkj/7+CIGG+Nr4lHuWN PwgL85ffnYk8I0IjP5JpJCGBNbV8Ms1/RotbkhBfXEqijV39AbUFrVkxwYHV6+H2O6hH CgPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnF8/T5sIPyjBwi5BNUJ2DnDm4oWf0xQZJJEN3qwlBrAGRmR5yGurlA3eUzWqUzQ+URvAzX MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.111.231 with SMTP id il7mr961183obb.15.1432792411522; Wed, 27 May 2015 22:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.144.228 with HTTP; Wed, 27 May 2015 22:53:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <15B43214-AE84-49C0-A83B-9E4DB6184CC6@cisco.com> References: <20150527122452.GC41087@elstar.local> <15B43214-AE84-49C0-A83B-9E4DB6184CC6@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 22:53:31 -0700 Message-ID: From: Anees Shaikh To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01536862ba1cbd05171dfa21 Archived-At: Cc: "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Juergen Schoenwaelder Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 05:53:35 -0000 --089e01536862ba1cbd05171dfa21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi Acee, thanks for the comments -- we debated these same questions :-) This approach was based on the wish to avoid operators having to worry about specifying an ipv4 prefix list separately from an ipv6 -- no major implementation has this separation today (though it could be considered). If using inet:ip-prefix type instead of inet:ip-address + masklength buys us some range checking in the pattern , maybe that's another reason to switch to using that union type instead. We will discuss making that update. You're right that with a string we don't do checking on the masklength-range field. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this was to accommodate a simple way to express an exact prefix (several implementations do something similar). Among OpenConfig operators, after some debate, we generally try to balance the amount of validation in the model itself, with maintaining flexibility and simplicity. In other words, we don't believe the model needs to prevent every conceivable error -- the implementation also has to participate by rejecting invalid / unsupported configuration. That said, where it's easy to add validation, we have tried to include it, though ranges, defaults, min/max values, etc. get harder when trying to build something vendor-neutral. Same applies to your correct comment that the current construct theoretically allows one to mix address types in the prefix list. Interestingly, some implementations allow you to create such a list, but fail later when you try to use it in a policy. We've chosen for now to allow it (again for simplicity), but explicitly say in the description that most implementations will reject a prefix-list with mixed address types. thanks. -- Anees On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > On May 27, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > Hi Anees, > I had noted problems with the prefix-lists in the draft as well but hadn= =E2=80=99t > got around to raising them. One thing about the masklength and > masklength-range is that there is no validation in the model snippet belo= w. > In other words, there is nothing to express that the masklength must > between 0..32 for IPv4 addresses and 0..128 for IPv6 addresses (this is > enforced by the ip-prefix type from RFC 6991). Similarly, as a string the= re > in no inherent validation of the masklength-range (e.g., both values must > be >=3D masklength, second value must be >=3D first-value, and both value= s must > be >=3D AF specific limit). > > > Of course I meant "<=3D AF specific limit=E2=80=9D. > > Thanks, > Acee > > > Also, there is nothing to prevent one from mixing IPv4 and IPv6 > prefixes in the same length which is definitely not allowed for the > prefix-lists we all know and love. > Thanks, > Acee > > From: Anees Shaikh > Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 12:09 PM > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Routing > YANG > Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning > draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 > > Juergen, you're right that prefix-lists in the model turned out to be a > bit problematic as currently defined. We've updated the model in the mos= t > recent revision after going through some translations of our configs to t= he > OpenConfig model and running into some issues. The updated version looks > more like the following: > > list prefix { > key "address masklength masklength-range"; > > leaf address { > type inet:ip-address; > } > > leaf masklength { > type uint8; > } > > leaf masklength-range { > type string { > pattern '^([0-9]+\.\.[0-9]+)|exact$'; > } > } > } > > The model used address and a separate masklength so that range checking > could be performed on the mask. We've since removed the range-checking = in > favor of simplifying to keep a single prefix list for both address types, > ipv4 and ipv6. > > The original model had the problem you mention, which is that all keys > must be mandatory, including masklength-range, which meant there was no > simple way to express an exact prefix other than, e.g., 21..21 which we > didn't think was desirable. Changing the masklength-range to a string > allows a more flexible pattern (including an 'exact' setting). The > masklength-range is included in the keys to make the list have unique > members. > > I think we could also consider your suggestion to use a inet:ip-prefix > instead of address since we're not doing range-checking on the masklength > in the current approach -- will discuss with the co-authors. > > Agree with your suggestion to make the XML examples more conformant > (they should certainly validate), though we've only been using ad-hoc > namespaces for models that are not IETF WG models so far. My understandi= ng > is that this is the recommended practice. > > thanks. > -- Anees > > > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I have read the document and I have a small comment. >> >> - You define a list 'prefix' in the list 'prefix-set' which is keyed >> by three leafs. As a result, all three leafs are mandatory. Your XML >> instance snipped in section 10 does not validate because it is >> missing mandatory key elements. I wonder (a) why did you not use >> inet:ip-prefix instead of the pair inet:ip-address and a unit8 >> masklength. And given the desire to represent a prefix range, would >> a special syntax not make sense, e.g. an extension of ip-prefix, >> lets call it ip-prefix-range, that allows to express a range of >> prefixes: >> >> 10.3.192.0/21-24 -> 10.3.192.0/21 >> 10.3.192.0/22 >> 10.3.192.0/23 >> 10.3.192.0/24 >> >> If the '-24' part is made optional, your prefix list will be >> collapsed to a simple >> >> list prefix { >> key prefix-range; >> >> leaf prefix-range { >> type ip-prefix-range; >> } >> } >> >> Such an ip-prefix-range type may even be a useful addition to >> ietf-inet-types. >> >> - The XML snippets are nice but it would be cool if they were using >> proper namespaces and validate against the data model. Perhaps >> something to consider for -01. The pyang tutorial provides examples >> how to validate XML snippets against YANG definitions. >> >> /js >> >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord > > > --089e01536862ba1cbd05171dfa21 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hi Acee, thanks for the comments -- we debated these same = questions :-) =C2=A0

This approach was based on the wish= to avoid operators having to worry about specifying an ipv4 prefix list se= parately from an ipv6 -- no major implementation has this separation today = (though it could be considered).

If using inet:ip-= prefix type instead of inet:ip-address + masklength buys us some range chec= king in the pattern , maybe that's another reason to switch to using th= at union type instead.=C2=A0 We will discuss making that update.

You're right that with a string we don't do checking on th= e masklength-range field.=C2=A0 As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this = was to accommodate a simple way to express an exact prefix (several impleme= ntations do something similar). =C2=A0=C2=A0

Among= OpenConfig operators, after some debate, we generally try to balance the a= mount of validation in the model itself, with maintaining flexibility and s= implicity.=C2=A0 In other words, we don't believe the model needs to pr= event every conceivable error -- the implementation also has to participate= by rejecting invalid / unsupported configuration.=C2=A0 That said, where i= t's easy to add validation, we have tried to include it, though ranges,= defaults, min/max values, etc. get harder when trying to build something v= endor-neutral.

Same applies to your correct = comment that the current construct theoretically allows one to mix address = types in the prefix list.=C2=A0 Interestingly, some implementations allow y= ou to create such a list, but fail later when you try to use it in a policy= . =C2=A0 We've chosen for now to allow it (again for simplicity), but e= xplicitly say in the description that most implementations will reject a pr= efix-list with mixed address types.

thanks.
<= div>-- Anees



On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Acee = Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

On May 27, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Anees,=C2=A0
I had noted problems with the prefix-lists in the draft as well but ha= dn=E2=80=99t got around to raising them. One thing about the masklength and= masklength-range is that there is no validation in the model snippet below= . In other words, there is nothing to express that the masklength must between 0..32 for IPv4 addresses and 0= ..128 for IPv6 addresses =C2=A0(this is enforced by the ip-prefix type from= RFC 6991). Similarly, as a string there in no inherent validation of the m= asklength-range (e.g., both values must be >=3D masklength, second value must be >=3D first-value, and both = values must be >=3D AF specific limit).

Of course I meant "<=3D AF specific limit=E2=80=9D.=C2= =A0

Thanks,
Acee=C2=A0


Also, there is nothing to prevent one from mixing IPv4 and IPv6 prefix= es in the same length which is definitely not allowed for the prefix-lists = we all know and love.=C2=A0
Thanks,
Acee=C2=A0

From: Anees Shaikh <aashaikh@google.com> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 12= :09 PM
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.scho= enwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Routing YANG <rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org><= br> Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comme= nt concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00

Juergen, you're right that prefix-lists in the model t= urned out to be a bit problematic as currently defined.=C2=A0 We've upd= ated the model in the most recent revision after going through some transla= tions of our configs to the OpenConfig model and running into some issues.=C2=A0 The updated version looks more l= ike the following:

list prefix {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 key "address masklength maskle= ngth-range";

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf address {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type inet:ip-address;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf masklength {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type uint8;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf masklength-range {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type string {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pattern '^([0-9]+= \.\.[0-9]+)|exact$';
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
}

The model used address and a separate masklength so that range checkin= g could be performed on the mask. =C2=A0 We've since removed the range-= checking in favor of simplifying to keep a single prefix list for both addr= ess types, ipv4 and ipv6.

The original model had the problem you mention, which is that all keys= must be mandatory, including masklength-range, which meant there was no si= mple way to express an exact prefix other than, e.g., 21..21 which we didn&= #39;t think was desirable.=C2=A0 Changing the masklength-range to a string allows a more flexible pattern (= including an 'exact' setting).=C2=A0 The masklength-range is includ= ed in the keys to make the list have unique members.=C2=A0

I think we could also consider your suggestion to use a inet:ip-prefix= instead of address since we're not doing range-checking on the masklen= gth in the current approach -- will discuss with the co-authors.

Agree with your suggestion to make the XML examples more conformant (t= hey should certainly validate), though we've only been using ad-hoc nam= espaces for models that are not IETF WG models so far.=C2=A0 My understandi= ng is that this is the recommended practice.

thanks.
-- Anees
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Juergen Schoenw= aelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
Hi,

I have read the document and I have a small comment.

- You define a list 'prefix' in the list 'prefix-set' which= is keyed
=C2=A0 by three leafs. As a result, all three leafs are mandatory. Your XML=
=C2=A0 instance snipped in section 10 does not validate because it is
=C2=A0 missing mandatory key elements. I wonder (a) why did you not use
=C2=A0 inet:ip-prefix instead of the pair inet:ip-address and a unit8
=C2=A0 masklength. And given the desire to represent a prefix range, would<= br> =C2=A0 a special syntax not make sense, e.g. an extension of ip-prefix,
=C2=A0 lets call it ip-prefix-range, that allows to express a range of
=C2=A0 prefixes:

=C2=A0 10.3.192.0/21-= 24 -> 10.3.192.0/21
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 10.3.192.0/22 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 10.3.192.0/23 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 10.3.192.0/24
=C2=A0 If the '-24' part is made optional, your prefix list will be=
=C2=A0 collapsed to a simple

=C2=A0 list prefix {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 key prefix-range;

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf prefix-range {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type ip-prefix-range;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 Such an ip-prefix-range type may even be a useful addition to
=C2=A0 ietf-inet-types.

- The XML snippets are nice but it would be cool if they were using
=C2=A0 proper namespaces and validate against the data model. Perhaps
=C2=A0 something to consider for -01. The pyang tutorial provides examples<= br> =C2=A0 how to validate XML snippets against YANG definitions.

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus= Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0<ht= tp://www.jacobs-university.de/>

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Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord= @ietf.org
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--089e01536862ba1cbd05171dfa21-- From nobody Wed May 27 23:51:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E391A1B7D for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:51:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l-DIaAfDeXxZ for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F1131A1B7A for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:51:01 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79086d000001909-ae-5566559e9e14 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 1D.5A.06409.E9556655; Thu, 28 May 2015 01:39:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Thu, 28 May 2015 02:50:59 -0400 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Anees Shaikh Thread-Topic: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 Thread-Index: AQHQmJeN5jWALvM7EUmLA5K3S0r2rJ2QS2CAgAAC8wCAANjMgP//zP/6 Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 06:50:58 +0000 Message-ID: <376DFA77-D190-4957-B842-DDB6ACAF3E1B@ericsson.com> References: <20150527122452.GC41087@elstar.local> <15B43214-AE84-49C0-A83B-9E4DB6184CC6@cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_376DFA77D1904957B842DDB6ACAF3E1Bericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpgkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonUHdeaFqowa/D1hYbdypaTH47j9ni 6safjBa/n99mdmDxmPJ7I6vHgk2lHkuW/GTy2HDAM4AlissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSvj+/O3LAXX ljFWTDq9hKmBcVk3YxcjJ4eEgInEt4ZZrBC2mMSFe+vZuhi5OIQEjjJKLHiznAXCWc4o8bj9 JRtIFZuAgcT/b8eBEhwcIgJqEg+mhoDUMAssYJS4OvsXO0iNsECoxO+t+8GmigiESbR//MYC YbtJ3Dv0nQnEZhFQlei//B0szitgLzFv0RywuJDAJCaJswvA5nAKBErM7ZsDtpcR6Lrvp9aA 1TALiEvcejKfCeJqAYkle84zQ9iiEi8f/2OFqEmW+Hb8ONR8QYmTM5+wTGAUmYWkfRaSsllI yiDiBhLvz81nhrC1JZYtfA1l60ts/HKWEVl8ASP7KkaO0uLUstx0I8NNjMAoOybB5riDccEn y0OMAhyMSjy8CXZpoUKsiWXFlbmHGKU5WJTEeS+qhoQKCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbFF5XmpBYfYmTi 4JRqYFwsk7Jr82rDYwrxhk631yqvsWCbL85bM/OLoHPkLqaPu+8bHak97upbu6QoXPu+1lNO Vom9stWRM9M3egT+mMmmsnOnjdyM93JrZ3FOWmxuvvjEK5kLfmpCC9+8OeOerKhg8mTtZ+uf vUvK43bqKntZidsc845UWLXsv+ae1se3pZmFnZkSxJVYijMSDbWYi4oTAWSMbgOTAgAA Archived-At: Cc: "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 06:51:05 -0000 --_000_376DFA77D1904957B842DDB6ACAF3E1Bericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Anees, Using ip:prefix type would for sure benefit from better validation enforcem= ent. Saying "for now" - do you expect it to be changed later? Thanks! Regards, Jeff On May 27, 2015, at 10:53 PM, "Anees Shaikh" > wrote: hi Acee, thanks for the comments -- we debated these same questions :-) This approach was based on the wish to avoid operators having to worry abou= t specifying an ipv4 prefix list separately from an ipv6 -- no major implem= entation has this separation today (though it could be considered). If using inet:ip-prefix type instead of inet:ip-address + masklength buys u= s some range checking in the pattern , maybe that's another reason to switc= h to using that union type instead. We will discuss making that update. You're right that with a string we don't do checking on the masklength-rang= e field. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this was to accommodate a s= imple way to express an exact prefix (several implementations do something = similar). Among OpenConfig operators, after some debate, we generally try to balance = the amount of validation in the model itself, with maintaining flexibility = and simplicity. In other words, we don't believe the model needs to preven= t every conceivable error -- the implementation also has to participate by = rejecting invalid / unsupported configuration. That said, where it's easy = to add validation, we have tried to include it, though ranges, defaults, mi= n/max values, etc. get harder when trying to build something vendor-neutral= . Same applies to your correct comment that the current construct theoretical= ly allows one to mix address types in the prefix list. Interestingly, some= implementations allow you to create such a list, but fail later when you t= ry to use it in a policy. We've chosen for now to allow it (again for sim= plicity), but explicitly say in the description that most implementations w= ill reject a prefix-list with mixed address types. thanks. -- Anees On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) > wrote: On May 27, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) > wrote: Hi Anees, I had noted problems with the prefix-lists in the draft as well but hadn=92= t got around to raising them. One thing about the masklength and masklength= -range is that there is no validation in the model snippet below. In other = words, there is nothing to express that the masklength must between 0..32 f= or IPv4 addresses and 0..128 for IPv6 addresses (this is enforced by the i= p-prefix type from RFC 6991). Similarly, as a string there in no inherent v= alidation of the masklength-range (e.g., both values must be >=3D masklengt= h, second value must be >=3D first-value, and both values must be >=3D AF s= pecific limit). Of course I meant "<=3D AF specific limit=94. Thanks, Acee Also, there is nothing to prevent one from mixing IPv4 and IPv6 prefixes in= the same length which is definitely not allowed for the prefix-lists we al= l know and love. Thanks, Acee From: Anees Shaikh > Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 12:09 PM To: Juergen Schoenwaelder >, Routing YANG > Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-= model-00 Juergen, you're right that prefix-lists in the model turned out to be a bit= problematic as currently defined. We've updated the model in the most rec= ent revision after going through some translations of our configs to the Op= enConfig model and running into some issues. The updated version looks mor= e like the following: list prefix { key "address masklength masklength-range"; leaf address { type inet:ip-address; } leaf masklength { type uint8; } leaf masklength-range { type string { pattern '^([0-9]+\.\.[0-9]+)|exact$'; } } } The model used address and a separate masklength so that range checking cou= ld be performed on the mask. We've since removed the range-checking in fa= vor of simplifying to keep a single prefix list for both address types, ipv= 4 and ipv6. The original model had the problem you mention, which is that all keys must= be mandatory, including masklength-range, which meant there was no simple = way to express an exact prefix other than, e.g., 21..21 which we didn't thi= nk was desirable. Changing the masklength-range to a string allows a more = flexible pattern (including an 'exact' setting). The masklength-range is i= ncluded in the keys to make the list have unique members. I think we could also consider your suggestion to use a inet:ip-prefix inst= ead of address since we're not doing range-checking on the masklength in th= e current approach -- will discuss with the co-authors. Agree with your suggestion to make the XML examples more conformant (they s= hould certainly validate), though we've only been using ad-hoc namespaces f= or models that are not IETF WG models so far. My understanding is that thi= s is the recommended practice. thanks. -- Anees On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: Hi, I have read the document and I have a small comment. - You define a list 'prefix' in the list 'prefix-set' which is keyed by three leafs. As a result, all three leafs are mandatory. Your XML instance snipped in section 10 does not validate because it is missing mandatory key elements. I wonder (a) why did you not use inet:ip-prefix instead of the pair inet:ip-address and a unit8 masklength. And given the desire to represent a prefix range, would a special syntax not make sense, e.g. an extension of ip-prefix, lets call it ip-prefix-range, that allows to express a range of prefixes: 10.3.192.0/21-24 -> 10.3.192.0/21 10.3.192.0/22 10.3.192.0/23 10.3.192.0/24 If the '-24' part is made optional, your prefix list will be collapsed to a simple list prefix { key prefix-range; leaf prefix-range { type ip-prefix-range; } } Such an ip-prefix-range type may even be a useful addition to ietf-inet-types. - The XML snippets are nice but it would be cool if they were using proper namespaces and validate against the data model. Perhaps something to consider for -01. The pyang tutorial provides examples how to validate XML snippets against YANG definitions. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1= | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ Rtg-yang-coord mailing list Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord _______________________________________________ Rtg-yang-coord mailing list Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord _______________________________________________ Rtg-yang-coord mailing list Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord --_000_376DFA77D1904957B842DDB6ACAF3E1Bericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Anees,

Using ip:prefix type would for sure benefit from better validation enf= orcement.
Saying "for now" - do you expect it to be changed later?

Thanks!

Regards,
Jeff

On May 27, 2015, at 10:53 PM, "Anees Shaikh" <aashaikh@google.com> wrote:

hi Acee, thanks for the comments -- we debated these same = questions :-)  

This approach was based on the wish to avoid operators having to worry= about specifying an ipv4 prefix list separately from an ipv6 -- no major i= mplementation has this separation today (though it could be considered).

If using inet:ip-prefix type instead of inet:ip-address + maskleng= th buys us some range checking in the pattern , maybe that's another reason= to switch to using that union type instead.  We will discuss making t= hat update.

You're right that with a string we don't do checking on the masklength= -range field.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this was to accom= modate a simple way to express an exact prefix (several implementations do = something similar).   

Among OpenConfig operators, after some debate, we generally try to bal= ance the amount of validation in the model itself, with maintaining flexibi= lity and simplicity.  In other words, we don't believe the model needs= to prevent every conceivable error -- the implementation also has to participate by rejecting invalid / unsuppor= ted configuration.  That said, where it's easy to add validation, we h= ave tried to include it, though ranges, defaults, min/max values, etc. get = harder when trying to build something vendor-neutral.

Same applies to your correct comment that the current construct theore= tically allows one to mix address types in the prefix list.  Interesti= ngly, some implementations allow you to create such a list, but fail later = when you try to use it in a policy.   We've chosen for now to allow it (again for simplicity), but explicitly sa= y in the description that most implementations will reject a prefix-list wi= th mixed address types.

thanks.
-- Anees



On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Acee Lindem (ac= ee) <acee@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:

On May 27, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Anees, 
I had noted problems with the prefix-lists in the draft as well but ha= dn=92t got around to raising them. One thing about the masklength and maskl= ength-range is that there is no validation in the model snippet below. In o= ther words, there is nothing to express that the masklength must between 0..32 for IPv4 addresses and 0..128 for I= Pv6 addresses  (this is enforced by the ip-prefix type from RFC 6991).= Similarly, as a string there in no inherent validation of the masklength-r= ange (e.g., both values must be >=3D masklength, second value must be >=3D first-value, and both values must be >=3D = AF specific limit).

Of course I meant "<=3D AF specific limit=94. 

Thanks,
Acee 


Also, there is nothing to prevent one from mixing IPv4 and IPv6 prefix= es in the same length which is definitely not allowed for the prefix-lists = we all know and love. 
Thanks,
Acee 

From: Anees Shaikh <aashaikh@google.com> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 12= :09 PM
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.scho= enwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Routing YANG <rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org><= br> Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comme= nt concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00

Juergen, you're right that prefix-lists in the model turne= d out to be a bit problematic as currently defined.  We've updated the= model in the most recent revision after going through some translations of= our configs to the OpenConfig model and running into some issues.  The updated version looks more like the fo= llowing:

list prefix {
          key "address masklength maskle= ngth-range";

          leaf address {
            type inet:ip-address;
          }

          leaf masklength {
            type uint8;
          }

          leaf masklength-range {
            type string {
              pattern '^([0-9]+= \.\.[0-9]+)|exact$';
            }
         }
}

The model used address and a separate masklength so that range checkin= g could be performed on the mask.   We've since removed the range-chec= king in favor of simplifying to keep a single prefix list for both address = types, ipv4 and ipv6.

The original model had the problem you mention, which is that all keys= must be mandatory, including masklength-range, which meant there was no si= mple way to express an exact prefix other than, e.g., 21..21 which we didn'= t think was desirable.  Changing the masklength-range to a string allows a more flexible pattern (including= an 'exact' setting).  The masklength-range is included in the keys to= make the list have unique members. 

I think we could also consider your suggestion to use a inet:ip-prefix= instead of address since we're not doing range-checking on the masklength = in the current approach -- will discuss with the co-authors.

Agree with your suggestion to make the XML examples more conformant (t= hey should certainly validate), though we've only been using ad-hoc namespa= ces for models that are not IETF WG models so far.  My understanding i= s that this is the recommended practice.

thanks.
-- Anees
            

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Juergen Schoenw= aelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
Hi,

I have read the document and I have a small comment.

- You define a list 'prefix' in the list 'prefix-set' which is keyed
  by three leafs. As a result, all three leafs are mandatory. Your XML=
  instance snipped in section 10 does not validate because it is
  missing mandatory key elements. I wonder (a) why did you not use
  inet:ip-prefix instead of the pair inet:ip-address and a unit8
  masklength. And given the desire to represent a prefix range, would<= br>   a special syntax not make sense, e.g. an extension of ip-prefix,
  lets call it ip-prefix-range, that allows to express a range of
  prefixes:

  10.3.192.0/21-= 24 -> 10.3.192.0/21
                     = ; 10.3.192.0/22
                     = ; 10.3.192.0/23
                     = ; 10.3.192.0/24

  If the '-24' part is made optional, your prefix list will be
  collapsed to a simple

  list prefix {
      key prefix-range;

      leaf prefix-range {
          type ip-prefix-range;
      }
  }

  Such an ip-prefix-range type may even be a useful addition to
  ietf-inet-types.

- The XML snippets are nice but it would be cool if they were using
  proper namespaces and validate against the data model. Perhaps
  something to consider for -01. The pyang tutorial provides examples<= br>   how to validate XML snippets against YANG definitions.

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 2= 8759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103      &= nbsp;  <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord= @ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord

_______________________________________________
Rtg-yang-coord mailing list
Rtg-yang-coord= @ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord


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--_000_376DFA77D1904957B842DDB6ACAF3E1Bericssoncom_-- From nobody Thu May 28 00:27:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF551A6F0E for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 00:27:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.788 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.788 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d1QFZDcdRuvd for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 00:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x231.google.com (mail-ob0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AF021A3B9C for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 00:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbea2 with SMTP id ea2so26225505obb.3 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 00:27:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=93pv8Uskh/25zfFKY6BztYlx4qzj+EPLc+g7LaqJYLc=; b=hOqlXkEFD6PzptGoTGhhzsP1YOFhPT/wwRJuGqSCFOMo+GBM9N+pG/4hAtGaFmRjf6 EL3Fczf3T+rbZLqqsyumkGKDcR4tuhJMYdqvhWptpJxr9lfmNlnv5z0zC88Dh+0ZNolY OoqHkwU/HrFPHYinIYQDjfwcg37BwbE28k0feApjHOKUrXVilFPAHjUkudL3+AaHJGc+ WL+UTUyeUAZBSNMWuPTjJBURafL8kGK0LTt/LNyKoZiHCEB6p1YK8+ZlsYFt16fmH+9h G9Iy7OL5NscZSnAW51mYrtOxxksmayM65eGqrVzegE8QxEOkBxgnTzkNHfU16Zq+2SDj BSgQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=93pv8Uskh/25zfFKY6BztYlx4qzj+EPLc+g7LaqJYLc=; b=OgW4O+JVoHKq5Y3ZE3MYvexd+gXElj7PsWsvZPTb8HyE9XTGJN1L99JPNmRrsX81Pt 6o+hHPufbBVmhTzZCRhNONWbYMwdhYMX7OBaB8FU5Hcr/pr5OqlM+A1yHQ+zFtCvdRgK bV+xMSfJm/Hqu9WOUktvyi8AE6vefm7hk+/1FOJV5rDh/RBTuqOq++bw7P0Rv6CbYOya 9OUQ+dbnQ22HSaxEA9QGXGrItVc6TOFNVPZq4G6KkxX3f5JQtbI/P3xUQc5cD0wIJEgZ Vj7JQbw8r9prKLvYCfOeZHUGTY8h58wUu2Ml1TLf3S0hxs2jJpLSCDofTYc4vk5ZM6hJ MlJg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlvXXqXRK8+fXCyERglMpkB1iP6/qLsSSpM0cuxAMN1lhTn1WNRCPvsMfctvyWPnGXf7VdB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.245.104 with SMTP id xn8mr1218192oec.51.1432798050674; Thu, 28 May 2015 00:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.144.228 with HTTP; Thu, 28 May 2015 00:27:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <376DFA77-D190-4957-B842-DDB6ACAF3E1B@ericsson.com> References: <20150527122452.GC41087@elstar.local> <15B43214-AE84-49C0-A83B-9E4DB6184CC6@cisco.com> <376DFA77-D190-4957-B842-DDB6ACAF3E1B@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 00:27:30 -0700 Message-ID: From: Anees Shaikh To: Jeff Tantsura Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11347536d8a00105171f4a4e Archived-At: Cc: "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 07:27:35 -0000 --001a11347536d8a00105171f4a4e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi Jeff, agree -- we'll try to get this fix into the next published version of the models -- which should hopefully be available very soon (said with fingers crossed). thanks. -- Anees On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Hi Anees, > > Using ip:prefix type would for sure benefit from better validation > enforcement. > Saying "for now" - do you expect it to be changed later? > > Thanks! > > Regards, > Jeff > > On May 27, 2015, at 10:53 PM, "Anees Shaikh" wrote: > > hi Acee, thanks for the comments -- we debated these same questions :-) > > > This approach was based on the wish to avoid operators having to worry > about specifying an ipv4 prefix list separately from an ipv6 -- no major > implementation has this separation today (though it could be considered). > > If using inet:ip-prefix type instead of inet:ip-address + masklength > buys us some range checking in the pattern , maybe that's another reason = to > switch to using that union type instead. We will discuss making that > update. > > You're right that with a string we don't do checking on the > masklength-range field. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this was t= o > accommodate a simple way to express an exact prefix (several > implementations do something similar). > > Among OpenConfig operators, after some debate, we generally try to > balance the amount of validation in the model itself, with maintaining > flexibility and simplicity. In other words, we don't believe the model > needs to prevent every conceivable error -- the implementation also has t= o > participate by rejecting invalid / unsupported configuration. That said, > where it's easy to add validation, we have tried to include it, though > ranges, defaults, min/max values, etc. get harder when trying to build > something vendor-neutral. > > Same applies to your correct comment that the current construct > theoretically allows one to mix address types in the prefix list. > Interestingly, some implementations allow you to create such a list, but > fail later when you try to use it in a policy. We've chosen for now to > allow it (again for simplicity), but explicitly say in the description th= at > most implementations will reject a prefix-list with mixed address types. > > thanks. > -- Anees > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) > wrote: > >> >> On May 27, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote= : >> >> Hi Anees, >> I had noted problems with the prefix-lists in the draft as well but >> hadn=E2=80=99t got around to raising them. One thing about the masklengt= h and >> masklength-range is that there is no validation in the model snippet bel= ow. >> In other words, there is nothing to express that the masklength must >> between 0..32 for IPv4 addresses and 0..128 for IPv6 addresses (this is >> enforced by the ip-prefix type from RFC 6991). Similarly, as a string th= ere >> in no inherent validation of the masklength-range (e.g., both values mus= t >> be >=3D masklength, second value must be >=3D first-value, and both valu= es must >> be >=3D AF specific limit). >> >> >> Of course I meant "<=3D AF specific limit=E2=80=9D. >> >> Thanks, >> Acee >> >> >> Also, there is nothing to prevent one from mixing IPv4 and IPv6 >> prefixes in the same length which is definitely not allowed for the >> prefix-lists we all know and love. >> Thanks, >> Acee >> >> From: Anees Shaikh >> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 12:09 PM >> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , >> Routing YANG >> Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning >> draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 >> >> Juergen, you're right that prefix-lists in the model turned out to be >> a bit problematic as currently defined. We've updated the model in the >> most recent revision after going through some translations of our config= s >> to the OpenConfig model and running into some issues. The updated versi= on >> looks more like the following: >> >> list prefix { >> key "address masklength masklength-range"; >> >> leaf address { >> type inet:ip-address; >> } >> >> leaf masklength { >> type uint8; >> } >> >> leaf masklength-range { >> type string { >> pattern '^([0-9]+\.\.[0-9]+)|exact$'; >> } >> } >> } >> >> The model used address and a separate masklength so that range checking >> could be performed on the mask. We've since removed the range-checking= in >> favor of simplifying to keep a single prefix list for both address types= , >> ipv4 and ipv6. >> >> The original model had the problem you mention, which is that all keys >> must be mandatory, including masklength-range, which meant there was no >> simple way to express an exact prefix other than, e.g., 21..21 which we >> didn't think was desirable. Changing the masklength-range to a string >> allows a more flexible pattern (including an 'exact' setting). The >> masklength-range is included in the keys to make the list have unique >> members. >> >> I think we could also consider your suggestion to use a inet:ip-prefix >> instead of address since we're not doing range-checking on the masklengt= h >> in the current approach -- will discuss with the co-authors. >> >> Agree with your suggestion to make the XML examples more conformant >> (they should certainly validate), though we've only been using ad-hoc >> namespaces for models that are not IETF WG models so far. My understand= ing >> is that this is the recommended practice. >> >> thanks. >> -- Anees >> >> >> On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < >> j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have read the document and I have a small comment. >>> >>> - You define a list 'prefix' in the list 'prefix-set' which is keyed >>> by three leafs. As a result, all three leafs are mandatory. Your XML >>> instance snipped in section 10 does not validate because it is >>> missing mandatory key elements. I wonder (a) why did you not use >>> inet:ip-prefix instead of the pair inet:ip-address and a unit8 >>> masklength. And given the desire to represent a prefix range, would >>> a special syntax not make sense, e.g. an extension of ip-prefix, >>> lets call it ip-prefix-range, that allows to express a range of >>> prefixes: >>> >>> 10.3.192.0/21-24 -> 10.3.192.0/21 >>> 10.3.192.0/22 >>> 10.3.192.0/23 >>> 10.3.192.0/24 >>> >>> If the '-24' part is made optional, your prefix list will be >>> collapsed to a simple >>> >>> list prefix { >>> key prefix-range; >>> >>> leaf prefix-range { >>> type ip-prefix-range; >>> } >>> } >>> >>> Such an ip-prefix-range type may even be a useful addition to >>> ietf-inet-types. >>> >>> - The XML snippets are nice but it would be cool if they were using >>> proper namespaces and validate against the data model. Perhaps >>> something to consider for -01. The pyang tutorial provides examples >>> how to validate XML snippets against YANG definitions. >>> >>> /js >>> >>> -- >>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >>> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord > > --001a11347536d8a00105171f4a4e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hi Jeff, agree -- =C2=A0we'll try to get this fix into= the next published version of the models -- which should hopefully be avai= lable very soon (said with fingers crossed).

thanks.
-- Anees

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Jeff Tantsura <jeff.t= antsura@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi Anees,

Using ip:prefix type would for sure benefit from better validation enf= orcement.
Saying "for now" - do you expect it to be changed later?

Thanks!

Regards,
Jeff

On May 27, 2015, at 10:53 PM, "Anees Shaikh" <aashaikh@google.com> wrote:=

hi Acee, thanks for the comments -- we debated these same = questions :-) =C2=A0

This approach was based on the wish to avoid operators having to worry= about specifying an ipv4 prefix list separately from an ipv6 -- no major i= mplementation has this separation today (though it could be considered).

If using inet:ip-prefix type instead of inet:ip-address + masklength b= uys us some range checking in the pattern , maybe that's another reason= to switch to using that union type instead.=C2=A0 We will discuss making t= hat update.

You're right that with a string we don't do checking on the ma= sklength-range field.=C2=A0 As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this was = to accommodate a simple way to express an exact prefix (several implementat= ions do something similar). =C2=A0=C2=A0

Among OpenConfig operators, after some debate, we generally try to bal= ance the amount of validation in the model itself, with maintaining flexibi= lity and simplicity.=C2=A0 In other words, we don't believe the model n= eeds to prevent every conceivable error -- the implementation also has to participate by rejecting invalid / unsuppor= ted configuration.=C2=A0 That said, where it's easy to add validation, = we have tried to include it, though ranges, defaults, min/max values, etc. = get harder when trying to build something vendor-neutral.

Same applies to your correct comment that the current construct theore= tically allows one to mix address types in the prefix list.=C2=A0 Interesti= ngly, some implementations allow you to create such a list, but fail later = when you try to use it in a policy. =C2=A0 We've chosen for now to allow it (again for simplicity), but explicitl= y say in the description that most implementations will reject a prefix-lis= t with mixed address types.

thanks.
-- Anees



On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Acee Lindem (ac= ee) <acee@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:

On May 27, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Anees,=C2=A0
I had noted problems with the prefix-lists in the draft as well but ha= dn=E2=80=99t got around to raising them. One thing about the masklength and= masklength-range is that there is no validation in the model snippet below= . In other words, there is nothing to express that the masklength must between 0..32 for IPv4 addresses and 0..128 for I= Pv6 addresses =C2=A0(this is enforced by the ip-prefix type from RFC 6991).= Similarly, as a string there in no inherent validation of the masklength-r= ange (e.g., both values must be >=3D masklength, second value must be >=3D first-value, and both values must be >=3D = AF specific limit).

Of course I meant "<=3D AF specific limit=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0

Thanks,
Acee=C2=A0


Also, there is nothing to prevent one from mixing IPv4 and IPv6 prefix= es in the same length which is definitely not allowed for the prefix-lists = we all know and love.=C2=A0
Thanks,
Acee=C2=A0

From: Anees Shaikh <aashaikh@google.com> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 12= :09 PM
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.scho= enwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Routing YANG <rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org><= br> Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comme= nt concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00

Juergen, you're right that prefix-lists in the model t= urned out to be a bit problematic as currently defined.=C2=A0 We've upd= ated the model in the most recent revision after going through some transla= tions of our configs to the OpenConfig model and running into some issues.=C2=A0 The updated version looks more like the fo= llowing:

list prefix {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 key "address masklength maskle= ngth-range";

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf address {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type inet:ip-address;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf masklength {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type uint8;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf masklength-range {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type string {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pattern '^([0-9]+= \.\.[0-9]+)|exact$';
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
}

The model used address and a separate masklength so that range checkin= g could be performed on the mask. =C2=A0 We've since removed the range-= checking in favor of simplifying to keep a single prefix list for both addr= ess types, ipv4 and ipv6.

The original model had the problem you mention, which is that all keys= must be mandatory, including masklength-range, which meant there was no si= mple way to express an exact prefix other than, e.g., 21..21 which we didn&= #39;t think was desirable.=C2=A0 Changing the masklength-range to a string allows a more flexible pattern (including= an 'exact' setting).=C2=A0 The masklength-range is included in the= keys to make the list have unique members.=C2=A0

I think we could also consider your suggestion to use a inet:ip-prefix= instead of address since we're not doing range-checking on the masklen= gth in the current approach -- will discuss with the co-authors.

Agree with your suggestion to make the XML examples more conformant (t= hey should certainly validate), though we've only been using ad-hoc nam= espaces for models that are not IETF WG models so far.=C2=A0 My understandi= ng is that this is the recommended practice.

thanks.
-- Anees
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Juergen Schoenw= aelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
Hi,

I have read the document and I have a small comment.

- You define a list 'prefix' in the list 'prefix-set' which= is keyed
=C2=A0 by three leafs. As a result, all three leafs are mandatory. Your XML=
=C2=A0 instance snipped in section 10 does not validate because it is
=C2=A0 missing mandatory key elements. I wonder (a) why did you not use
=C2=A0 inet:ip-prefix instead of the pair inet:ip-address and a unit8
=C2=A0 masklength. And given the desire to represent a prefix range, would<= br> =C2=A0 a special syntax not make sense, e.g. an extension of ip-prefix,
=C2=A0 lets call it ip-prefix-range, that allows to express a range of
=C2=A0 prefixes:

=C2=A0 10.3.192.0/21-= 24 -> 10.3.192.0/21
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 10.3.192.0/22 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 10.3.192.0/23 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 10.3.192.0/24
=C2=A0 If the '-24' part is made optional, your prefix list will be=
=C2=A0 collapsed to a simple

=C2=A0 list prefix {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 key prefix-range;

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf prefix-range {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type ip-prefix-range;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 Such an ip-prefix-range type may even be a useful addition to
=C2=A0 ietf-inet-types.

- The XML snippets are nice but it would be cool if they were using
=C2=A0 proper namespaces and validate against the data model. Perhaps
=C2=A0 something to consider for -01. The pyang tutorial provides examples<= br> =C2=A0 how to validate XML snippets against YANG definitions.

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759= Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0<ht= tp://www.jacobs-university.de/>

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Rtg-yang= -coord@ietf.org
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--001a11347536d8a00105171f4a4e-- From nobody Thu May 28 02:28:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47B6A1A0282 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 02:28:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.739 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.739 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YTLqgxh8T7fF for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 02:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1FB11A0222 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 02:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie.labs.nic.cz (unknown [195.113.220.110]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D310D14035B for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 11:28:43 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1432805323; bh=gN6+Z0LjtZYiTaowyr1uEPgLiXf0Mp+eBQCXCtB20fk=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Message-Id: Date:To:Mime-Version; b=RNfGNmiMbvSennGjofVXbkRvt5JguhqSrfOlH/f5xC0lcPnAjqghmlz7+Ydr0LRfD nvRPKGuaA700I4g35qycexOQvjAUsrPo1D6f+75JblAOxM2cPk37WjCg5LjNXZjWuB 2Ipfdn05utYI2fB+sjJF+yQTDnsEDz2Sk9K9jirg= From: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:28:44 +0200 To: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.6 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 09:28:47 -0000 Hi, I have a suggestion for the authors of all routing protocol modules: the = container that encapsulates all configuration data for a given protocol = should be a container with presence (see sec. 7.5.1 in RFC 6020) because = then the configuration data may include mandatory items that are = otherwise forbidden at the top level of an augment. See also YANG 1.1 issue Y26: https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-27 For example, in the the ietf-isis it should look like this: augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" +"rt:routing-protocol" { when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { description "This augment is only valid when routing protocol instance type is isis."; } presence "IS-IS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; ... } I am also including this recommendation in the routing-cfg draft. Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu May 28 02:33:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C491A0222 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 02:33:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sKM4RALGvWwk for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 02:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE4AF1A00EA for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 02:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie.labs.nic.cz (unknown [195.113.220.110]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D574414035A for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 11:33:09 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1432805589; bh=0nw0ckOWyVmUwuZlWVHjzkqhJgeJuLpNt1nP7IJuBx0=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=UDuVxtJ/IiVuSj5vA4nQQelJZBTpIVJHOzFKzkxDBidrKvtgGj8bOCnbV8hkkk5sG nVOIYN66KdxwnyMXhoKOOp2UY+20L/k2NViA+xNwmxUv/iWTKigtV9NrSMuygYEMYM rPTghFjc1GNVfvAyXXomipu+KtR8jN/h5jN98fKA= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:33:10 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> To: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.6 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 09:33:12 -0000 Sorry, the example is wrong, the presence statement should of course be = inside the container: augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" +"rt:routing-protocol" { when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { description "This augment is only valid when routing protocol instance type is isis."; } description "This augments a routing protocol instance with ISIS specific parameters."; container isis { presence "IS-IS routing protocol"; ... } } Lada > On 28 May 2015, at 11:28, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I have a suggestion for the authors of all routing protocol modules: = the container that encapsulates all configuration data for a given = protocol should be a container with presence (see sec. 7.5.1 in RFC = 6020) because then the configuration data may include mandatory items = that are otherwise forbidden at the top level of an augment. >=20 > See also YANG 1.1 issue Y26: >=20 > https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-27 >=20 > For example, in the the ietf-isis it should look like this: >=20 > augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" > +"rt:routing-protocol" { > when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { > description > "This augment is only valid when routing protocol > instance type is isis."; > } > presence "IS-IS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; > ... > } >=20 > I am also including this recommendation in the routing-cfg draft. >=20 > Lada > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu May 28 02:53:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3A81A1BAE for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 02:53:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JNyec8AH_e4m for ; 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A0CcBQDf5GZV/4cNJK1ZA4JFS1ReBoMYr1iOF4EYBWYBCYV3AhyBNEwBAQEBAQGBC4QiAQEBBAEBAQsVBCUZCQsOAgIBCA4CAQIBAQIoAwICAhkKAgsUCQgCBA4FiCgFDbABhWqeIQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARcEizaELT0KAQwEBwkIgleBRQWQTII8hDWGWoEphnCHN2WDIYNZI4IKHIFSbwGBAwEeBxyBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,512,1427760000"; d="scan'208,217";a="423244402" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 May 2015 09:53:18 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4S9rIOJ004410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 May 2015 09:53:18 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.97]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 28 May 2015 04:53:18 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Anees Shaikh Thread-Topic: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 Thread-Index: AQHQmJeOz/AOLj/BaE+NpkVfLOeIoJ2QGTMAgABF4wCAANjMgIAAAA4A Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 09:53:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150527122452.GC41087@elstar.local> <15B43214-AE84-49C0-A83B-9E4DB6184CC6@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.202] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D18C5D6D1F518aceeciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Juergen Schoenwaelder Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 09:53:23 -0000 --_000_D18C5D6D1F518aceeciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271121A8AB1 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 04:18:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3So1PODL3kUN for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 04:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE6D1A8A8A for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 04:18:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.124.178.112; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ladislav Lhotka'" , References: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 07:18:06 -0400 Message-ID: <00a701d09937$f8edf620$eac9e260$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGMdBhPp/EGgcFyBhqWIKEwxi/HrZ4ZhDQA Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:18:16 -0000 Lada:=20 Thank you for this suggestion. How would you suggest the I2RS yang = models for I2RS RIB, I2RS Topology, and I2RS FB-RIB use the=20 augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" +"rt:routing-protocol" { when "rt:type =3D 'i2rs:i2rs'" { description "This augment is only valid when routing protocol instance type is i2rs."; } presence "I2RS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; ... } If a modules depends on L1 TEAS model or l2 how should this be tested? = Sue=20 -----Original Message----- From: Rtg-yang-coord [mailto:rtg-yang-coord-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Ladislav Lhotka Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 5:29 AM To: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Subject: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence Hi, I have a suggestion for the authors of all routing protocol modules: the = container that encapsulates all configuration data for a given protocol = should be a container with presence (see sec. 7.5.1 in RFC 6020) because = then the configuration data may include mandatory items that are = otherwise forbidden at the top level of an augment. See also YANG 1.1 issue Y26: https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-27 For example, in the the ietf-isis it should look like this: augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" +"rt:routing-protocol" { when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { description "This augment is only valid when routing protocol instance type is isis."; } presence "IS-IS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; ... } I am also including this recommendation in the routing-cfg draft. Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C _______________________________________________ Rtg-yang-coord mailing list Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord From nobody Thu May 28 04:42:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E0861A909C for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 04:42:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.061 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.061 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j8K0uiOy7KoX for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 04:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47C661A908C for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 04:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie.labs.nic.cz (unknown [195.113.220.110]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E6FCF13F7CA; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:42:40 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1432813360; bh=j+/upLRzOdX5dSTe/kkRlL3a+b/mzzHdjOsXTw2IHWk=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=bsSv+7+2EBLlfUcMnJ2EU3H9JWk/8ln9/A1XQoSaLAkFCNi1t7bq3DcFK8fbToGXE hWbra/PMMd5ZDQ2isxl906WLoJ/o+ILnvdUJxTu8wFAkE7aZ2LcohvJTwQL4Yh35Rt 5e2yWP799pPdbmyiIQ6oK1chLXfsVqVwn7Gua4AQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <00a701d09937$f8edf620$eac9e260$@ndzh.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 13:42:41 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <07EA8763-056F-4BD3-B7F1-8B6647B486A6@nic.cz> References: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> <00a701d09937$f8edf620$eac9e260$@ndzh.com> To: Susan Hares X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.6 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:42:44 -0000 Hi Sue, > On 28 May 2015, at 13:18, Susan Hares wrote: >=20 > Lada:=20 >=20 > Thank you for this suggestion. How would you suggest the I2RS yang = models for I2RS RIB, I2RS Topology, and I2RS FB-RIB use the=20 These models don=E2=80=99t define routing protocols, so why should they = augment "rt:routing-protocol=E2=80=9D? However, the use of presence containers is a common workaround for all = situation where mandatory data are needed inside an augment. Another = example is the if:interface list in the ietf-interfaces module, where = config data for a specific interface type (augmented into the list from = another module) might include mandatory items. Another solution that doesn=E2=80=99t need an extra presence container = is to use a =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D statement.=20 =20 >=20 >=20 > augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" > +"rt:routing-protocol" { > when "rt:type =3D 'i2rs:i2rs'" { > description > "This augment is only valid when routing protocol > instance type is i2rs."; > } > presence "I2RS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; > ... > } >=20 > If a modules depends on L1 TEAS model or l2 how should this be = tested? Sorry, I don=E2=80=99t understand, what exactly do you want to test? Lada > =20 >=20 >=20 > Sue=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rtg-yang-coord [mailto:rtg-yang-coord-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 5:29 AM > To: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > Subject: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I have a suggestion for the authors of all routing protocol modules: = the container that encapsulates all configuration data for a given = protocol should be a container with presence (see sec. 7.5.1 in RFC = 6020) because then the configuration data may include mandatory items = that are otherwise forbidden at the top level of an augment. >=20 > See also YANG 1.1 issue Y26: >=20 > https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-27 >=20 > For example, in the the ietf-isis it should look like this: >=20 > augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" > +"rt:routing-protocol" { > when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { > description > "This augment is only valid when routing protocol > instance type is isis."; > } > presence "IS-IS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; > ... > } >=20 > I am also including this recommendation in the routing-cfg draft. >=20 > Lada > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >=20 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu May 28 13:18:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005251A88D9 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:18:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tvbgjCH4qyax for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22a.google.com (mail-pa0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADDDA1A88D5 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by padbw4 with SMTP id bw4so31265695pad.0 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:17:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=zdLxZcK4jGSAE/ipIK1qdeT6Ho7N/ZoYkEccK/qjZgg=; b=GV5iNXtNJBP+kFJMbmyx56SatHZNU0ds/1UHUEB2q8MWBDAhVpkWGrN1sJ2GQb2E5k ApkPjHUzK7ghQds0WQMrsH4tHfF4o8QuW/R+c7M33V95q/YCIWdWaBQdNZ1h/n5NsnI8 i6/drhiJsqx3XY2eZyrrBPW957gMuHUGOMDBuJwIoRx9X7lz5C5V64dT9PrrIFJkWRAO xnekD7BugnI+YvPcp4pveKLan3a3wD3e1wrcN5lGHxkkqDfWGU6xaFy6a9tP5N564HSb dC0OpSiI+58d1xinGRrZVSMPzrSjIr1uiqfO7zDHPA/By0h3OGgRTZCAX4eGaAI/QH2P oUJQ== X-Received: by 10.68.133.200 with SMTP id pe8mr8631644pbb.133.1432844279332; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:302:1330:7197:4184:582e:ba8f? ([2001:420:302:1330:7197:4184:582e:ba8f]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j7sm3253839pbq.35.2015.05.28.13.17.57 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 28 May 2015 13:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_341F9783-A6EE-427E-AFA9-6750B5D524E0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 13:18:22 -0700 Message-Id: <60EFF4AA-18BA-4B5B-87F4-4F5204A72A79@gmail.com> References: <20150527122452.GC41087@elstar.local> <15B43214-AE84-49C0-A83B-9E4DB6184CC6@cisco.com> To: Anees Shaikh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:18:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_341F9783-A6EE-427E-AFA9-6750B5D524E0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Aneesh, When I look at a model to see where the ranges, defaults, min/max values = can be defined, I rely on protocol definition and what the expectation = is of the packet on the wire.=20 Two examples come to mind. VLAN, as we know has a fixed range, and can = be easily defined. Same for MPLS labels. The other example is of duplex = on a Ethernet port. You can probably set the default to full duplex, and = few folks will complain. If the protocol defines it and you can cite a = section in the standard where the range/default is defined then you are = covered.=20 Where there is no clear standards defining ranges, defaults, min/max, I = agree with you, it is best to keep it out of a standard model. Cheers. > On May 27, 2015, at 10:53 PM, Anees Shaikh = wrote: >=20 > That said, where it's easy to add validation, we have tried to include = it, though ranges, defaults, min/max values, etc. get harder when trying = to build something vendor-neutral. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_341F9783-A6EE-427E-AFA9-6750B5D524E0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Aneesh,

When I look at a model to see where the ranges, defaults, = min/max values can be defined, I rely on protocol definition and what = the expectation is of the packet on the wire. 

Two examples come to = mind. VLAN, as we know has a fixed range, and can be easily defined. = Same for MPLS labels. The other example is of duplex on a Ethernet port. = You can probably set the default to full duplex, and few folks will = complain. If the protocol defines it and you can cite a section in the = standard where the range/default is defined then you are = covered. 

Where there is no clear standards defining ranges, defaults, = min/max, I agree with you, it is best to keep it out of a standard = model.

Cheers.

On May 27, 2015, at 10:53 PM, = Anees Shaikh <aashaikh@google.com> wrote:

That said, where it's easy to add validation, we = have tried to include it, though ranges, defaults, min/max values, etc. = get harder when trying to build something = vendor-neutral.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_341F9783-A6EE-427E-AFA9-6750B5D524E0-- From nobody Thu May 28 13:38:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E965C1A88F5 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:38:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3mCNPqaPpBcx for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22a.google.com (mail-pd0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE6261A8880 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pdea3 with SMTP id a3so49528928pde.2 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:38:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=l1YKQlQz3ndN+lBRrKMk+nGeG69N4FUjNjni041OFoE=; b=Jgy3KCogEZeanlC/Mv4Xh+CbC1WGqVCBsbesLGOjCSgE9VAFOwjGLaboWtZkihLGP7 B3Y4sSz48ez6HK1fNiDjmHpAHboQ+G/YAN1iWM9BCArw91jKKaLsj1VasRmqCr3quQV8 +bvz1Mokn/zdtvILvHcuU4c1/cQMNErT3H8PO1/Xo4Yk3yUBpp5LSCIfBop0IGZvOEgD +Pud1zRTMq6T8vAIL9qzS5g/mNnQsJR4WGDYVUQMoXVvqkhBdzpYXuZh8NDoyxpMB5xj Iee0difpl42CM8fqjnR/5QlaxjPlLv69R7OYqkEau5BeaRAbjqTuHlBrkcAYrhZM1VZ6 nnUA== X-Received: by 10.68.68.142 with SMTP id w14mr8764688pbt.95.1432845481363; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:302:1330:7197:4184:582e:ba8f? ([2001:420:302:1330:7197:4184:582e:ba8f]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nb10sm3276303pdb.76.2015.05.28.13.38.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 28 May 2015 13:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 13:38:24 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> To: Ladislav Lhotka X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:38:04 -0000 And the error that will pop up as result will be something like this: Warning: top-level NP container =E2=80=98twamp-client' is mandatory ietf-twamp.yang:59.9: warning(1048): top-level object is mandatory > On May 28, 2015, at 2:28 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I have a suggestion for the authors of all routing protocol modules: = the container that encapsulates all configuration data for a given = protocol should be a container with presence (see sec. 7.5.1 in RFC = 6020) because then the configuration data may include mandatory items = that are otherwise forbidden at the top level of an augment. >=20 > See also YANG 1.1 issue Y26: >=20 > https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-27 >=20 > For example, in the the ietf-isis it should look like this: >=20 > augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" > +"rt:routing-protocol" { > when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { > description > "This augment is only valid when routing protocol > instance type is isis."; > } > presence "IS-IS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; > ... > } >=20 > I am also including this recommendation in the routing-cfg draft. >=20 > Lada > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Thu May 28 13:55:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8BBF1A8946 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:55:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ap4xPE5ThtkZ for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x236.google.com (mail-oi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BB081A893E for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oihd6 with SMTP id d6so42122862oih.2 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:55:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=MJzaSIUNUL7JUPTAA7hbmf/k69lnMlL1QjyGSSeKuh4=; b=UUbgbkxSh9itdO3NxMpntr6u1PFB8a6GhAazvGvGnJ0GhPd9QWjs3cWlHXwrwuycj/ /nblG3C1sWjHuR75x6KuSix7GmaQcbLq35S9WB5p4Czi7nfbgj4Lk6yrG6VRW/wNDcvR fBpeDbw/O7gI3caI6vc9mw3TL9wWFwv5+2KbRatD5t+mKhc0fn51vp2wiu7NP1iNQyq5 hGD+Y8uJO2EjsMqM6nxNqEwO504mAMsSdHJpBwCBJ/IonytPqUpPZ3LcRqcCnXAr24BE RTYVslz0Vd5z2YOFy7/bNvxBuZGAbGvdtLZdBrCwUfKuxB0JusWESaeCIw8nE1VJV2Xm drow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=MJzaSIUNUL7JUPTAA7hbmf/k69lnMlL1QjyGSSeKuh4=; b=HSN/0mRVQLqcPqWCqW/pxhTs2FBrX2hoTHSO9tnOhSrEk8/fSBJY8bXwsmWVhio9SK du4DMC5X0m6Nw5atQGRvG8C+oNg7Dpri0eSfL/+GRMSpKnZmDH8NKyvSBcojAZhWiouT YV1XGjTRlQFnHoH8GJOllFApSiFJ17b7CqUT3WiDbWpvj3b35GuGg5I0YPAHObad2/mO ZHcNKhZ7FQpT09p7B3FfVr9tS8QacMQCbbRxMl4iwj/PTUIgW3J6fqVvKtzZqtM6Y8kG /2TiFQMNBLqMN5LUYhaRNsqrj/bUYWGtXRGkcimOw/K4HR/o6FjxnQIeS+1dp0+FiQNZ x9xQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnm0ncTxVUom4RNMxg/3axIblv0GI5R8KTpDd4RFzkQ7xhYOWwyZHjuCKwi0ZbppyROKGOR X-Received: by 10.202.202.80 with SMTP id a77mr3991053oig.118.1432846522028; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:55:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20150527122452.GC41087@elstar.local> <15B43214-AE84-49C0-A83B-9E4DB6184CC6@cisco.com> <60EFF4AA-18BA-4B5B-87F4-4F5204A72A79@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <60EFF4AA-18BA-4B5B-87F4-4F5204A72A79@gmail.com> From: Anees Shaikh Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:55:11 +0000 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11352cdef6c1f605172a9363 Archived-At: Cc: "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] comment concerning draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:55:24 -0000 --001a11352cdef6c1f605172a9363 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Right, those examples are relatively easy because they are defined by a standard or widely used common settings. We try to do this in the OpenConfig models but there are plenty of examples where every implementation has chosen a different default, range, etc. Thanks. -- Anees On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:18 PM Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Aneesh, > > When I look at a model to see where the ranges, defaults, min/max values > can be defined, I rely on protocol definition and what the expectation is > of the packet on the wire. > > Two examples come to mind. VLAN, as we know has a fixed range, and can be > easily defined. Same for MPLS labels. The other example is of duplex on a > Ethernet port. You can probably set the default to full duplex, and few > folks will complain. If the protocol defines it and you can cite a section > in the standard where the range/default is defined then you are covered. > > Where there is no clear standards defining ranges, defaults, min/max, I > agree with you, it is best to keep it out of a standard model. > > Cheers. > > On May 27, 2015, at 10:53 PM, Anees Shaikh wrote: > > That said, where it's easy to add validation, we have tried to include it, > though ranges, defaults, min/max values, etc. get harder when trying to > build something vendor-neutral. > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > --001a11352cdef6c1f605172a9363 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Right, those examples are relatively easy because they are defined by a sta= ndard or widely used common settings. We try to do this in the OpenConfig = models but there are plenty of examples where every implementation has chos= en a different default, range, etc.

Thanks.
-- Anees
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:18 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <= ;mjethanandani@gmail.com>= wrote:
Aneesh,

When I look at a model to see where the range= s, defaults, min/max values can be defined, I rely on protocol definition a= nd what the expectation is of the packet on the wire.=C2=A0

<= /div>
Two examples come to mind. VLAN, as we know has a fixed range, an= d can be easily defined. Same for MPLS labels. The other example is of dupl= ex on a Ethernet port. You can probably set the default to full duplex, and= few folks will complain. If the protocol defines it and you can cite a sec= tion in the standard where the range/default is defined then you are covere= d.=C2=A0

Where there is no clear standards definin= g ranges, defaults, min/max, I agree with you, it is best to keep it out of= a standard model.

Cheers.

On May 27, 2015, at = 10:53 PM, Anees Shaikh <aashaikh@google.com> wrote:

That said, wh= ere it's easy to add validation, we have tried to include it, though ra= nges, defaults, min/max values, etc. get harder when trying to build someth= ing vendor-neutral.

Mahesh Jethanandani



--001a11352cdef6c1f605172a9363-- From nobody Fri May 29 09:28:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A061AC424 for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 09:28:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i3RQA6FSPAxY for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 09:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05EFD1A923D for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 09:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [172.29.2.202]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B322E1CC0293; Fri, 29 May 2015 18:28:31 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: References: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.19 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 18:28:29 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 16:28:34 -0000 Mahesh Jethanandani writes: > And the error that will pop up as result will be something like this: > > Warning: top-level NP container =E2=80=98twamp-client' is mandatory > ietf-twamp.yang:59.9: warning(1048): top-level object is mandatory > This is actually something else, the case I am writing about leads to this error message in pyang: knot-dns.yang:322 (at knot-dns.yang:169): error: cannot augment mandatory n= ode record-type (and it is a hard error rather than warning). Lada >> On May 28, 2015, at 2:28 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> I have a suggestion for the authors of all routing protocol modules: the= container that encapsulates all configuration data for a given protocol sh= ould be a container with presence (see sec. 7.5.1 in RFC 6020) because then= the configuration data may include mandatory items that are otherwise forb= idden at the top level of an augment. >>=20 >> See also YANG 1.1 issue Y26: >>=20 >> https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-27 >>=20 >> For example, in the the ietf-isis it should look like this: >>=20 >> augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" >> +"rt:routing-protocol" { >> when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { >> description >> "This augment is only valid when routing protocol >> instance type is isis."; >> } >> presence "IS-IS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; >> ... >> } >>=20 >> I am also including this recommendation in the routing-cfg draft. >>=20 >> Lada >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > --=20 Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri May 29 09:50:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72881ACDDC for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 09:50:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FSunNjNFm3QI for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 09:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f173.google.com (mail-lb0-f173.google.com [209.85.217.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D22D1ACD8F for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 09:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbcue7 with SMTP id ue7so52246559lbc.0 for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 09:50:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1mrrChULlGi0khrVGJCHvmk7b2qPMMELVzrpAoMi6wg=; b=Rnqtj6krUSq5mRWJ6QXtBOjJIZzBth7bsUv4z3Dk2Yo4nbfrjDw30xQj63M0ci6gfp F1P44CG4pMTwXyoQ6u0ibaHNQqNd6rv/PZMHQRiIMfPZsSdx8+ienDflThCGoHIM5C4j HITTPOIV+/6XH9OJv+VGQwOGrOaljdUow1Q2zluWqIXnW+DBUyLsIGZ2Fi8anjUwUKS6 21mEZzBD04qpJlr69FvH+2oNoYx2J4ETYDklCWeCNl8AyN8DKgAv7sXl2dQUh9ujIdKv e1SOoljRwLGY0u9BzV4MCDe0yYPwJbHEX0FOTpZtnOGEfvCITinVSiwnVqNFngjTP2Ts tuPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnk5iAilYqSmVCL9hZQrhWaBbi+hjEzsKvAGrhdompROT2rTa5rZiaoGKc6Q74OeLu8CkfS MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.115.207 with SMTP id jq15mr1237734lab.119.1432918203839; Fri, 29 May 2015 09:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.200.102 with HTTP; Fri, 29 May 2015 09:50:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 09:50:03 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 16:50:17 -0000 On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Mahesh Jethanandani writes: > >> And the error that will pop up as result will be something like this: >> >> Warning: top-level NP container =E2=80=98twamp-client' is mandatory >> ietf-twamp.yang:59.9: warning(1048): top-level object is mandatory >> > > This is actually something else, the case I am writing about leads to > this error message in pyang: > > knot-dns.yang:322 (at knot-dns.yang:169): error: cannot augment mandatory= node record-type > > (and it is a hard error rather than warning). > It is not an error to augment a mandatory node. It is an error to augment any node with mandatory nodes. Big difference. > Lada Andy > >>> On May 28, 2015, at 2:28 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have a suggestion for the authors of all routing protocol modules: th= e container that encapsulates all configuration data for a given protocol s= hould be a container with presence (see sec. 7.5.1 in RFC 6020) because the= n the configuration data may include mandatory items that are otherwise for= bidden at the top level of an augment. >>> >>> See also YANG 1.1 issue Y26: >>> >>> https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-27 >>> >>> For example, in the the ietf-isis it should look like this: >>> >>> augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" >>> +"rt:routing-protocol" { >>> when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { >>> description >>> "This augment is only valid when routing protocol >>> instance type is isis."; >>> } >>> presence "IS-IS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; >>> ... >>> } >>> >>> I am also including this recommendation in the routing-cfg draft. >>> >>> Lada >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >>> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >> >> Mahesh Jethanandani >> mjethanandani@gmail.com >> >> >> > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord From nobody Fri May 29 10:45:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60A51B2BD4 for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 10:45:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jWtKxfIARpL4 for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 10:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83B901B2BEB for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.29.2.202] (nat-14.bravonet.cz [77.48.225.14]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0ECDB13F6EC; Fri, 29 May 2015 19:38:12 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1432921092; bh=w2pT1Z028eLbqbtOsj6u1+3niKuPuu8P9Dmfe5Wtvrw=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=oIVqWS6sfAD9LNavYcUjQlLbJa7g0Iu/EZQXyb81qj7nenp2G5xWQELINGm7EQZ/A WDPUIBxdcxEkzD0aS7+HcqXmhJUhoVh+B5d74z1BXbZFFEW+TGII16ENeITg71p0Oc 1CuYHE6LFWn3WPeIVtLsTkIYJLUd5DoowvtMghvo= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 19:38:11 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0332E371-2925-437D-B3BD-5FC0D4938E92@nic.cz> References: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.6 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 17:45:14 -0000 > On 29 May 2015, at 18:50, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 > On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >> Mahesh Jethanandani writes: >>=20 >>> And the error that will pop up as result will be something like = this: >>>=20 >>> Warning: top-level NP container =E2=80=98twamp-client' is mandatory >>> ietf-twamp.yang:59.9: warning(1048): top-level object is mandatory >>>=20 >>=20 >> This is actually something else, the case I am writing about leads to >> this error message in pyang: >>=20 >> knot-dns.yang:322 (at knot-dns.yang:169): error: cannot augment = mandatory node record-type >>=20 >> (and it is a hard error rather than warning). >>=20 >=20 >=20 > It is not an error to augment a mandatory node. > It is an error to augment any node with mandatory nodes. > Big difference. Right, but it is a linguistic problem, =E2=80=98record-type=E2=80=99 is = a mandatory node inside the augment statement, not the target node. The error message should thus read "cannot augment with mandatory node = record-type=E2=80=9D. Thanks for catching it, I=E2=80=99ve corrected it in the source. Lada >=20 >> Lada >=20 > Andy >=20 >>=20 >>>> On May 28, 2015, at 2:28 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> I have a suggestion for the authors of all routing protocol = modules: the container that encapsulates all configuration data for a = given protocol should be a container with presence (see sec. 7.5.1 in = RFC 6020) because then the configuration data may include mandatory = items that are otherwise forbidden at the top level of an augment. >>>>=20 >>>> See also YANG 1.1 issue Y26: >>>>=20 >>>> = https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-27 >>>>=20 >>>> For example, in the the ietf-isis it should look like this: >>>>=20 >>>> augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" >>>> +"rt:routing-protocol" { >>>> when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { >>>> description >>>> "This augment is only valid when routing protocol >>>> instance type is isis."; >>>> } >>>> presence "IS-IS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; >>>> ... >>>> } >>>>=20 >>>> I am also including this recommendation in the routing-cfg draft. >>>>=20 >>>> Lada >>>> -- >>>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >>>> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >>>=20 >>> Mahesh Jethanandani >>> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri May 29 13:13:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-yang-coord@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8191E1A872E for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 13:13:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.455 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.455 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CRrDxtAnQ2Fn for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 13:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F092A1A871B for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 13:13:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.124.178.112; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ladislav Lhotka'" References: <331A2562-6D35-4D49-911E-9881CCE5D6A1@nic.cz> <00a701d09937$f8edf620$eac9e260$@ndzh.com> <07EA8763-056F-4BD3-B7F1-8B6647B486A6@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <07EA8763-056F-4BD3-B7F1-8B6647B486A6@nic.cz> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 16:13:43 -0400 Message-ID: <002201d09a4b$f657ac70$e3070550$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGMdBhPp/EGgcFyBhqWIKEwxi/HrQLvNFuFAh9TqYGd8zp2AA== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence X-BeenThere: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"List to discuss coordination between the Routing related YANG models\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 20:13:47 -0000 Lada: A clearer example, is the I2RS BGP modules is dependent on the BGP = protocol. How would you use a "must" to require the BGP protocol = exist. The L1 portion of the I2RS topology model may be dependent on = the L1 TEAS definitions. How would you write that dependency in the = yang module?=20 If there is an RFC or draft I should read, just point it out.=20 Sue=20 -----Original Message----- From: Ladislav Lhotka [mailto:lhotka@nic.cz]=20 Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 7:43 AM To: Susan Hares Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence Hi Sue, > On 28 May 2015, at 13:18, Susan Hares wrote: >=20 > Lada:=20 >=20 > Thank you for this suggestion. How would you suggest the I2RS yang = models for I2RS RIB, I2RS Topology, and I2RS FB-RIB use the=20 These models don=E2=80=99t define routing protocols, so why should they = augment "rt:routing-protocol=E2=80=9D? However, the use of presence containers is a common workaround for all = situation where mandatory data are needed inside an augment. Another = example is the if:interface list in the ietf-interfaces module, where = config data for a specific interface type (augmented into the list from = another module) might include mandatory items. Another solution that doesn=E2=80=99t need an extra presence container = is to use a =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D statement.=20 =20 >=20 >=20 > augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" > +"rt:routing-protocol" { > when "rt:type =3D 'i2rs:i2rs'" { > description > "This augment is only valid when routing protocol > instance type is i2rs."; > } > presence "I2RS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; > ... > } >=20 > If a modules depends on L1 TEAS model or l2 how should this be = tested? Sorry, I don=E2=80=99t understand, what exactly do you want to test? Lada > =20 >=20 >=20 > Sue=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rtg-yang-coord [mailto:rtg-yang-coord-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 5:29 AM > To: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > Subject: [Rtg-yang-coord] container with presence >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I have a suggestion for the authors of all routing protocol modules: = the container that encapsulates all configuration data for a given = protocol should be a container with presence (see sec. 7.5.1 in RFC = 6020) because then the configuration data may include mandatory items = that are otherwise forbidden at the top level of an augment. >=20 > See also YANG 1.1 issue Y26: >=20 > https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-27 >=20 > For example, in the the ietf-isis it should look like this: >=20 > augment "/rt:routing/rt:routing-instance/rt:routing-protocols/" > +"rt:routing-protocol" { > when "rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" { > description > "This augment is only valid when routing protocol > instance type is isis."; > } > presence "IS-IS routing protocol=E2=80=9D; > ... > } >=20 > I am also including this recommendation in the routing-cfg draft. >=20 > Lada > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >=20 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C