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Tue, 1 Mar 2022 19:27:02 +0000 From: Roman Danyliw To: IETF SAAG Thread-Topic: Call for IETF 113 agenda items Thread-Index: AdgtojpQ0hGPURuqQBaiK6q9BTXLIw== Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 19:27:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=cert.org; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 119113ab-62b1-4171-2ad9-08d9fbb9768d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN2P110MB0963:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BN2P110MB1107.NAMP110.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230001)(366004)(6506007)(33656002)(6916009)(186003)(26005)(52536014)(9686003)(8936002)(4744005)(2906002)(86362001)(7696005)(498600001)(5660300002)(66556008)(66446008)(66476007)(64756008)(55016003)(66946007)(38100700002)(76116006)(122000001)(8676002)(82960400001)(38070700005)(71200400001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: ft/dnmfJ6Sp+AsFRRZnbxfDujhPPz6JYqOzAj2ZRDHKJ7TBX6BC2MsPpWa78O+mLFLku+hP4tHCOj6qf6dt7SHKumyzwBNpPdWpbWlXAmm/NqADeQSRg4Xvx04Paw7aCvEGGJ5epmuD3RNRYEeML/w== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: cert.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN2P110MB1107.NAMP110.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 119113ab-62b1-4171-2ad9-08d9fbb9768d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Mar 2022 19:27:02.5026 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 95a9dce2-04f2-4043-995d-1ec3861911c6 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN2P110MB0963 Archived-At: Subject: [saag] Call for IETF 113 agenda items X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 19:27:08 -0000 Hello! In preparation for the IETF 113, we are putting together the SAAG agenda. = We would appreciate ideas on presentation topics that you believe would be = of interest to the community. If you can identify an appropriate presenter= (not necessarily yourself) that would be helpful too. We are also happy to accept volunteers in advance to help take minutes. =20 Thanks, Roman and Ben From nobody Mon Mar 21 08:02:34 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9D43A12D5; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 04:04:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ieee-csr.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s7WJBdCkHHaq; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 04:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ieee-csr.org (vmi146817.contaboserver.net [173.249.7.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97BDA3A128E; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 04:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.ieee-csr.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by vmi146817.contaboserver.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E96672E391A; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:52:39 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ieee-csr.org; s=default; t=1647773568; bh=lj3Bc/wxY/xiOH/nCgKm+uexoqojhGshDKunzDTJLXs=; h=From:To:Subject; b=NmY50e6nJoiJ3xw5D/jIyCx6tIUABxyDZ3g28DGLZv1MSlXkm/Je5aPrEscfuoU1J WUw27gogfCLeRXlt24XInXJiZVdWX9pwFobSs/Gs6+rmaGizNtfK5Vd0IDPBDaMC/Q nyQp9vgd57epwdWbNWQev6natJMmyfGfRTUEP/eI= Authentication-Results: vmi146817.contaboserver.net; spf=pass (sender IP is ::1) smtp.mailfrom=info@ieee-csr.org smtp.helo=webmail.ieee-csr.org Received-SPF: pass (vmi146817.contaboserver.net: connection is authenticated) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:52:39 +0200 From: info@ieee-csr.org To: IEEE CSR Conference User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.13 Message-ID: X-Sender: info@ieee-csr.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_1d53dbb47b3dbe9a616cc48d910d3044" X-PPP-Message-ID: <164777356215.2628.186452985320284326@vmi146817.contaboserver.net> X-PPP-Vhost: ieee-csr.org Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:02:33 -0700 Subject: [saag] [CFP] 2022 IEEE International Conference on Cyber Security and Resilience -- Deadline Extended X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:04:23 -0000 --=_1d53dbb47b3dbe9a616cc48d910d3044 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed *** D E A D L I N E E X T E N D E D *** [Please accept our apologies for cross-postings] [CSR IS A VIRTUAL EVENT] ======================================== C a l l F o r P a p e r s IEEE CSR 2022 IEEE International Conference on Cyber Security and Resilience Virtual Conference | July 27-29, 2022 https://www.ieee-csr.org/ ======================================== The IEEE International Conference on Cyber Security and Resilience (IEEE CSR) is an annual event sponsored by the IEEE Systems, Man, and Cybernetics (SMC) Society. DESCRIPTION & SCOPE ------------------- The technological and industrial revolution brought by complex Cyber-Physical Systems (CPSs) comes with new threats and cyber-attacks that exploit their inherent complexity and heterogeneity. Systems under attack, should exhibit cyber resilience, i.e. a mixture of strategies, methods, and techniques to support complex CPS adaptive capacity during cyber-attacks. The conference focuses on theoretical and practical aspects of the security, privacy, trust, and resilience of networks, systems, and services as well as novel ways for dealing with their vulnerabilities and mitigating sophisticated cyber-attacks. TOPICS OF INTEREST ------------------ Prospective authors are encouraged to submit previously unpublished contributions from a broad range of topics, which include but are not limited to the following: Cyber security › Cyber-security and AI › Cyber-threat intelligence › Moving target defense › Network intrusion detection › Post-quantum security › Privacy and data protection Cyber resilience › AI resilience management › Cyber-range platforms › Cyber-risk forecasting › Cyber-security training › Dynamic risk management › Gamification in security Complex CPS security › Automotive security › Industrial IoT security › IoT and cloud forensics › Smart cities security › Smart grid security › Virtualization security The complete list of topics can be found at the PDF version of the CFP: https://www.ieee-csr.org/docs/ieee_csr_cfp.pdf IMPORTANT DATES --------------- Paper submission deadline: April 22, 2022 AoE Authors' notification: May 13, 2022 AoE Camera-ready submission: May 27, 2022 AoE Early registration deadline: June 24, 2022 AoE SUBMISSION GUIDELINES --------------------- The IEEE CSR 2022 conference will accept high-quality regular research papers, Systematization of Knowledge (SoK) papers, and industrial papers. The IEEE CSR 2022 also hosts workshops that specialize into the conference's areas or focus on high-quality applied research and innovation results obtained from cyber-security and resilience projects. Submitted manuscripts should not exceed 6 pages (plus 2 extra pages, being subject to overlength page charges) and should be of sufficient detail to be evaluated by expert reviewers in the field. The conference (including workshops) proceedings will be published by IEEE and will be included in IEEE Xplore. Detailed information about the paper submission and guidelines to authors have been posted on the IEEE CSR 2022 conference website https://www.ieee-csr.org [1]. CONFERENCE CHAIRS ----------------- Stavros Shiaeles, University of Portsmouth (stavros.shiaeles@port.ac.uk) Nicholas Kolokotronis, University of Peloponnese (nkolok@uop.gr) CONTACT US ---------- info@ieee-csr.org Links: ------ [1] https://www.ieee-csr.org/ --=_1d53dbb47b3dbe9a616cc48d910d3044 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

*** D E A D L I N E   E X T E N D E D ***

[Please accept our apologies for cross-postings]
[CSR IS A VIRTUAL EVENT]

 
 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
C a l l   F o r  = P a p e r s

IEEE CSR 2022=
IEEE International Conference on Cyber Securit= y and Resilience
Virtual Conference | July 27-29, 2022

https://www.ieee-csr.org/ 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


The IEEE International Conference on Cyber Security and Resilience (IEEE= CSR) is an annual event sponsored by the IEEE Systems, Man, and Cybernetic= s (SMC) Society.


DESCRIPT= ION & SCOPE
-------------------
The tec= hnological and industrial revolution brought by complex Cyber-Physical Syst= ems (CPSs) comes with new threats and cyber-attacks that exploit their inhe= rent complexity and heterogeneity. Systems under attack, should exhibit cyb= er resilience, i.e. a mixture of strategies, methods, and techniques t= o support complex CPS adaptive capacity during cyber-attacks. The conferenc= e focuses on theoretical and practical aspects of the security, privacy, tr= ust, and resilience of networks, systems, and services as well as nove= l ways for dealing with their vulnerabilities and mitigating sophisticated = cyber-attacks.


TOPICS OF = INTEREST
------------------
Prospective aut= hors are encouraged to submit previously unpublished contributions from a b= road range of topics, which include but are not limited to the following:
Cyber security<= br class=3D"" />
› Cyber-security and AI
› Cyber-threat intelligence
› Moving target defense› Network intrusion detection
› Post-quantum security
› Privacy and data protection

Cyber resilience
› AI resilience management
› Cyber-range platforms
&rsa= quo; Cyber-risk forecasting
› Cyber-se= curity training
› Dynamic risk managem= ent
› Gamification in security<= br class=3D"" />
Complex CPS security
› Automotive security<= /span>
› Industrial IoT security
› IoT and cloud forensics
› Smart cities security
› Smart grid security
› Virtua= lization security

The complete list of topics can be found at the PDF version of the CF= P: https://www.ieee-csr.org/docs/ieee_csr_cfp.pdf


IMPORTANT DATES---------------
Paper su= bmission deadline: April 22, 2022 AoE<= /span>
Authors' notification: May 13, 2022 AoE
Camera-ready submission: May 27, = 2022 AoE
Early registration deadline: June 24, 2022 AoE
=

SUBMISSION GUIDELINES
---------------------
The = IEEE CSR 2022 conference will accept high-quality regular research papers, = Systematization of Knowledge (SoK) papers, and industrial papers. The = IEEE CSR 2022 also hosts workshops that specialize into the conference= ’s areas or focus on high-quality applied research and innovatio= n results obtained from cyber-security and resilience projects.=

Submitted manuscripts should not e= xceed 6 pages (plus 2 extra pages, being subject to overlength page ch= arges) and should be of sufficient detail to be evaluated by expert reviewe= rs in the field. The conference (including workshops) proceedings will= be published by IEEE and will be included in IEEE Xplore.=

Detailed information about th= e paper submission and guidelines to authors have been posted on the IEEE C= SR 2022 conference website https://www.ieee-csr.org.


CONFERENCE CHAIRS
-----------------
Stavros Shiaeles, University of Portsmouth (stavros.shiaeles@port.ac.uk)
Nicholas Kolokotronis, University of Peloponnese (nkolok@uop.gr)

 
CONTACT US
----------
info@ieee-csr.org
--=_1d53dbb47b3dbe9a616cc48d910d3044-- From nobody Tue Mar 22 08:30:26 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164F03A15CA for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.907 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ipv-sx.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J3vDkldyRHoc for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC5FF3A156F for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id q194so14214485qke.5 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:30:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ipv-sx.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=AFAi3GrFw3ftBF/joAasopB4scYUW2jVRzMhbSQZMUs=; b=jXgSoJB+wGvPQW08fAZKzhOa5uwHptRJIuU4730AhAKIMsH1wLKk2wkJIr6fHv0+fg dhNXu+7gaIOOCTiiIcabrEgE41rT9FMAuHBSEj3waCAEOcH3XbxfMh3oK/SSHJR/ERPH kT1ySQDIWs9LaLIJ8NNKx/VK/8gHJvIDkKJ6OZyjNFArrvlXrHPF73rb9/OwIinNBKFr /QPGsxZ2y+AWSWdCrsBgBVQyLyiEtECWsXRCmpdqSB0CO4heMJfdUs+x4h1VyXijdH9C 1GIBGgQpjAAQFOglBnAiYPve/UbdvdDRL4LE7NlbKxQhEsAOTjWyMW0mA0Y7Ph9glySL v0Gg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=AFAi3GrFw3ftBF/joAasopB4scYUW2jVRzMhbSQZMUs=; b=QOVoPRP4K2/eonwxVcSlib966i0g6UYk3fMB+7HsvyIYBiNSC87iYwSuUAfL8H4w/O 1otgNyJ5zaSJyrysLGb02PAVSmG2VuWyHioARJuMkQUAbip5v7SFwBcrjaemw3601n1C QRSO7hd6HXDyZyyAKEXngdgGZwK6WHt4KXygJGMx3yKtF1ixFcyc1yZxwKgujXlByO/y beXCbrzc77cWW5k3rjl9hAg5yI+FMHhd/2q6axa1uMHxk6UCp946DdffUgCMfDR1gqZ2 yCER4GLt9oW0j5bUIceRhgK/mgDO3HcICYbEJtja4mEaFbfEFNowz8fVPTkaHX/3Y5vm sl3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533+LZDdeXEpytRjwu3AA2TiZI07Wybegl7zxDi+GVoJEvW+ilH4 oZ7GpxcaWEfLY2FHG1J0F4pWf/3rogL5z9rEx6kPtxZHTFRyTg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwHke8u5quMuAzdeyUNNquSeCcYTfRbXIxUHJK6jhAUZNHPKy7vKF3IKTAuTfXrtXAf2QdCYI5ONlBmNA8zV/M= X-Received: by 2002:a37:a0ca:0:b0:67d:b628:6a4e with SMTP id j193-20020a37a0ca000000b0067db6286a4emr15944277qke.35.1647963012352; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:30:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Richard Barnes Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:30:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: IETF SAAG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f458a405dad0494b" Archived-At: Subject: [saag] SECDISPATCH report for IETF 113 X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:30:25 -0000 --000000000000f458a405dad0494b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, SECDISPATCH met at IETF 113, with about 150 attendees overall of whom around three dozen were on-site. We considered four documents, spanning the range of DISPATCH outcomes: a. draft-ciphersuites-in-sec-syslog - Dispatched to UTA b. draft-yee-ssh-iana-requirements - AD sponsorship c. draft-campling-ech-deployment-considerations - No IETF work to do d. draft-birkholz-scitt-* - BoF is needed It was nice to see that despite some contentious topics, the discussion was very professional, and we got clear consensus decisions. --Richard --000000000000f458a405dad0494b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

SECDISPATCH met at I= ETF 113, with about 150 attendees overall of whom around three dozen were o= n-site.=C2=A0 We considered four documents, spanning the range of DISPATCH = outcomes:

a. draft-ciphersuites-in-sec-syslog - Di= spatched to UTA
b. draft-yee-ssh-iana-requirements - AD sponsorship
c= . draft-campling-ech-deployment-considerations - No IETF work to do
d. d= raft-birkholz-scitt-* - BoF is needed

It was nice = to see that despite some contentious topics, the discussion was very profes= sional, and we got clear consensus decisions.

--Ri= chard
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Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:02:26 +0000 From: Roman Danyliw To: "Kampanakis, Panos" , "saag@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" Thread-Index: AQHYEmpeHPUpowV2TESswMETYZMsdKzNIFQQ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:02:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <66A20135-5437-43E4-9F74-AE1D1FDB3A59@gmail.com> <02E8D61E-D96B-4520-A781-4EB43014BFB8@gmail.com> <66F981E1-05BB-4B4D-8DE4-006023094F15@akamai.com> <24a7328bd1814769a6f47ae00f682be3@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> <16dae1e5137a48079d976bcb93185925@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> In-Reply-To: <16dae1e5137a48079d976bcb93185925@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=cert.org; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 27f51c88-bcb3-4c50-34ec-08da0cc4ff2c x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN2P110MB1544:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: LSsG6KtXQQS17Cczyxm52mQVxJeLd6MR2pV5QvqLZpUb+WnhUVaVTHcL1RY63nJxqgmX0jefMspzYWIeRlZ9MWaiN+6g/38hdKr+sl6rKOkZRZF9WMjbjrdA62h7UUq3y9tWgmOdLGVtj//6+w5wqg== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: cert.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN2P110MB1107.NAMP110.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 27f51c88-bcb3-4c50-34ec-08da0cc4ff2c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Mar 2022 12:02:25.9932 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 95a9dce2-04f2-4043-995d-1ec3861911c6 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN2P110MB1544 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:02:37 -0000 Hi Panos! No updates. While there is concrete charter text describing the mechanics = of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe what proto= cols would be in scope for the initial body of work. Progress is blocked p= ending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what protocols need= a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address it). Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf). I've been tryin= g to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://trac.iet= f.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility. Regards, Roman > -----Original Message----- > From: Kampanakis, Panos > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM > To: saag@ietf.org > Cc: Roman Danyliw ; Benjamin Kaduk > Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" >=20 > Hi Roman, Ben, >=20 > Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back. >=20 > Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by IE= TF- > 113? >=20 > Thanks, > Panos >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: saag On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J. (GRC- > LCN0) > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM > To: saag@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft text for a= PQ > Maintenance WG" >=20 > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not c= lick > links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the > content is safe. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi >=20 > I think the charter looks fine. >=20 > Thanks > Chuck >=20 > Charles J. Sheehe III > Computer Engineer > Secure Networks, System > Integration and Test Branch (LCN) > Glenn Research Center > 21000 Brookpark Rd > Cleveland, OH 44135 > Charles.J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email > Charles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail > Office: 216-433-5179 > It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the = strong > man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. >=20 > The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose fac= e is > marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who > comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and > shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows grea= t > enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; w= ho > at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at = the > worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his plac= e shall never > be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. > Theodore Roosevelt >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM > To: Kampanakis, Panos ; Salz, Rich > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; > saag@ietf.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance > WG" >=20 > Hi! >=20 >=20 >=20 > We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short hand to > characterize this potential body of work. The intent was what Panos desc= ribed > - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF protocol to a= llow > it to benefit from PQC mechanisms. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the inte= nt -- > "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym]) is chartered > as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols, registries, and assoc= iated > code points with PQ cryptographic mechanisms." > (https://github.com/rdanyliw/ietf-pq-maintenance/blob/main/pqm-charter.md > com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm- > charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7 > C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat > a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved > =3D0> ). I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the header of the templated > charter. It now reads "PQC Agility WG". The term didn't appear in the c= harter > text itself. However, to eliminate all possible c onfusion I also the o= ne instance > of maintenance by s/protocol maintenance/protocol changes/. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Roman >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: Kampanakis, Panos > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM > To: Salz, Rich ; Roman Danyliw > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; saag@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" >=20 >=20 >=20 > Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for > orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448. >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: saag > On > Behalf Of Salz, Rich > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM > To: Ludovic Perret >; Roman Danyliw > >; Benjamin Kaduk >; saag@ietf.org > Cc: Kampanakis, Panos > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance > WG" >=20 >=20 >=20 > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not c= lick > links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the > content is safe. >=20 >=20 >=20 > I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag From nobody Wed Mar 23 06:08:09 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA433A1142; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:08:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=iki.fi Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TF_jHtCOyBFM; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meesny.iki.fi (meesny.iki.fi [IPv6:2001:67c:2b0:1c1::201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01F8F3A1138; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fireball.acr.fi (fireball.acr.fi [83.145.195.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: kivinen@iki.fi) by meesny.iki.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 555D720550; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:07:57 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iki.fi; s=meesny; t=1648040877; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TdvNyzS7j/W404eOUt+sQxqQbnr8uBdb6FAtgV5p+o8=; b=tJPm/bR842WGt09wiR/2PsRdxCIKizGX9cVPmTsl3P30cvhmfgVfjgCfPwopgxzZV4L5qk QdlQciEJ4YMlRI2hTTtSrhySU91+Tc1Htt8AXoZ+DlmKnZBdzKlp5jqAmvyG0PY2kZ+UD1 2rOkbXLdqspdEWWuXU5IGC4R7Uc+ZCk= Received: by fireball.acr.fi (Postfix, from userid 15204) id 8A30225C12E5; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:07:56 +0200 (EET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <25147.7084.518337.665747@fireball.acr.fi> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:07:56 +0200 From: Tero Kivinen To: saag@ietf.org CC: ipsec@ietf.org X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.3 (x86_64--netbsd) X-Edit-Time: 2 min X-Total-Time: 2 min ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; ORIGINATING; auth=pass smtp.auth=kivinen@iki.fi smtp.mailfrom=kivinen@iki.fi ARC-Seal: i=1; s=meesny; d=iki.fi; t=1648040877; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=IJ5c636NXQ6gi4SmYKNHkqseXfAAFeX4L+mGD+0EtkxOkoGI6hq4l3xBdD0DC4V3Sq5Z2t WOQMKqSvkGiCMuqo0HUUe/nDs7qV/HWRm/SKZqnUSfKE0RwBb4RQnxdrWnLLU4xTvzSlr4 bv66pJ9r4QOarUi65uYPp3RFOzxCscE= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iki.fi; s=meesny; t=1648040877; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TdvNyzS7j/W404eOUt+sQxqQbnr8uBdb6FAtgV5p+o8=; b=g+mR3ZrpGjXaUVbMcuFCkqXBgT/a+gQ6N1t9nmnco65CXltf3Xu6CwBHYsi39wKUanNMpp +Pz0SHur0hEyk4Zh8Pq16IyiC5IC7va+E0Pqv9hyAqOWJqbCAZxv4lgbHT0aIyAMYYU8aP hc7T+OgH9ouVI3wTjrbXfVn/scL/iwU= Archived-At: Subject: [saag] IPsecME WG report for SAAG X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 13:08:06 -0000 IPsecME will be meeting on Friday after the saag so I updated the status on the datatracker to describe the current status (https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/ipsecme/about/status/). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Intermediate draft is now approved by the IESG and is now in the RFC Editor queue. Publication has been requested for IPTFS drafts (base draft, and yang and mib drafts), and the TCP Ecnapsulation (rfc8229bis) draft. Labeled IPsec and Deprecation of IKEv1 and obsoleted algorithms drafts are ready for publication and will be submitted to the IESG immediately after this IETF. Multiple Key Exchanges draft should also be ready for publication. Group Key Management using IKEv2 has received some reviews during the WGLC, and should be ready for publication now. IKEv2 configuration for Encrypted DNS and Announcing Supported Authentication Methods in IKEv2 drafts are adopted as WG drafts. There has been some work on the Optional SA & TS Payload in Child Exchange, and it might be ready to be adopted as WG draft. There has not been that much happening with other new work, like modifying the base IKEv2 payload format, both to make it more compact for constrained devices, and allow it to go over 64kB payload limit. -- kivinen@iki.fi From nobody Wed Mar 23 11:38:40 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9973A190B; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 11:38:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.858 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.858 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aBxTP5M0wfjc; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 11:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa1-x36.google.com (mail-oa1-x36.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E36F3A0E04; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 11:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa1-x36.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-de2cb87f6aso2576095fac.10; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 11:38:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=61tNg6S4lq8ren5u1JjGarmQ/PppNzYUlI9lmB6hz5k=; b=F7OXpVo37GpYfqK14DTRJ7r0HK60alFPmOKeAMjEeWMEkacplh51snIiU9L0ocNRx6 u6jEEes6H3OQKmbf9MZzXDxfcgNVIjY5UAHacUP8dhQfFfHsZCchFAeBrXsN7WPgztJz 8YZ1qIxQz7NktDavUj2TAclwgYITQWfrm/8UBThpaWavIXcfflDCPKRc1jfJfdZ/5jSl dqhLiWyWdCUUxcwlRxk9Fh1k9F6teHlJkWbxYWEFCrzW+pV0SFG0Hn6L2AoN1SDH8aqP g9sq8NMSNMXJfvsdCFyP2kabo8eR4GFeqPtyWrUcsgH0jSWiHamwMrvYplB+H1sVAOeK Fv2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=61tNg6S4lq8ren5u1JjGarmQ/PppNzYUlI9lmB6hz5k=; b=rjUKqE22NXimKakpxGCSXuTdJ+ZDBEa8jVR7NmDtXdHjZI85qVuB4FlsW78YuAyabX gBUQRfvngrdttLFBqHnlJD5H1swIaAyPkp8Mpua15LzOGEsROujU/8AR2/YEKOOD7O4P i6O0WTNiTXK/SAlK7+oDyiBgHaaL+1Bl1B6X4zzk71CP4MgbwhMnBQ6YUMObTn9t+iG8 Q1gbrSMPujZRUvcm0O13NgYxovFTa+8nbmTizOncWUJE5T4dDHLo4IlpLhj0njTRq/7+ NoNt2vvv4/DDDS0Wh7mTX5antCKLcFliMuRbcFYcoMZ5EsAXAjBrI0pj9/OMAASCc/mz opnQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531BwaKNbZsbebyoBP2Ys3SeaDxYXLKv8i+mskq8BWkjTt1JP3Xi MPwdUxDXyYbPtHuKKhbeM+aE+bVKpPvPTORUGIJzHGiUvWUj X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw9TqXpeIqY++trHiF9fUFza2R3W7Q+8mK8pbFO3vwyLb4GMZkPnkydhBoMXyB4GqckUL64FKeYc6s6+3G4ph0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:f697:b0:da:b3f:3268 with SMTP id el23-20020a056870f69700b000da0b3f3268mr683639oab.280.1648060714971; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 11:38:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Deb Cooley Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:38:23 -0400 Message-ID: To: saag@ietf.org Cc: IETF ACME Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007bf5fe05dae7094e" Archived-At: Subject: [saag] ACME WG report X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:38:39 -0000 --0000000000007bf5fe05dae7094e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The ACME working group met on Monday afternoon with about 10 people in person and another 12-15 online. Work: 2 drafts are in IESG Evaluation: ACME Authority Token + ACME Authority Token TNAuthlist, small changes required. Authors have been contacted. 1 experimental draft in IESG evaluation: draft-ietf-acme-dtnnodeid, needs review by the working group. 2 drafts ready for WGLC: draft-ietf-acme-integrations and draft-ietf-acme-subdomains after authors finish cleanup. 1 draft ready for working group adoption request: draft-aaron-acme-ari after updating to the next revision. and 1 draft in development: draft-ietf-acme-client. Deb and Yoav --0000000000007bf5fe05dae7094e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The ACME working group met on Monday= afternoon with about 10 people in person and another 12-15 online.

Work:=
2 = drafts are in IESG Evaluation:=C2=A0 ACME Authority Token + ACME Authority = Token TNAuthlist, small changes required.=C2=A0 Authors have been contacted= .

1 experimental draft in IESG evaluation: draft-ietf= -acme-dtnnodeid, needs review by the working group.

2 drafts ready for WGLC: draft-ietf-acme-integrations and draft-ietf-acme= -subdomains after authors finish cleanup.

1 dr= aft ready for working group adoption request: draft-aaron-acme-ari after up= dating to the next revision.
and
1 draft in develop= ment:=C2=A0 draft-ietf-acme-client.


Deb and Yoa= v
=20
--0000000000007bf5fe05dae7094e-- From nobody Wed Mar 23 12:47:52 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004713A09D1 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:47:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=iki.fi Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H37SjfEEUHEh for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meesny.iki.fi (meesny.iki.fi [195.140.195.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A50283A09C8 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPV6:2001:999:51:38fb:6ca1:1044:ba41:c04e] (unknown [IPv6:2001:999:51:38fb:6ca1:1044:ba41:c04e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mohit) by meesny.iki.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 288C820380 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:47:45 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iki.fi; s=meesny; t=1648064865; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QzMdNWIgKOpCM9//ZLUvjE43ZEvSSMmHk6tv0QCde+M=; b=Hnmkk1r69ATkOiC0kSY4LJLv08BqndoVJNKFAkQeue44cgOoVeuG9aZpx9SAKLuxt25pME 7TzA9Isc46gMnd0taDZ19zZX6ant/7yy9lIYnVNrCZdJV9ywHqCP+XCk/hqhFGQi8Hyx1r rfoEbVJkaXXi30pjHiQOBeUSnsXqJIM= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:47:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Content-Language: en-US To: saag@ietf.org From: Mohit Sethi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; ORIGINATING; auth=pass smtp.auth=mohit smtp.mailfrom=mohit@iki.fi ARC-Seal: i=1; s=meesny; d=iki.fi; t=1648064865; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=cdXphPJaBx3Hyrr4lHKORl6UYj5yA6z30RU45C+gF9QRbyEssxXe+nf1vpIQRvDqrhXiE1 h7PXx6OKYoRadFWAvDReZOWKQFfLi12JrpuFYkl+tw6WJZ3qPHXbLMN9djT8hd9amtMVr7 SlAQ/AJa9u6QtXxyMq1/TFYLXezACEQ= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iki.fi; s=meesny; t=1648064865; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QzMdNWIgKOpCM9//ZLUvjE43ZEvSSMmHk6tv0QCde+M=; b=dqbkfBSFFixw9Un5hv+n31DE7+4llrd/1D0ooqPEeZJu72CnmKcX/bWRLIpLZhJ0n9vZK3 DxR5eJEpoRxBaKkczNEEsLtw2iFci+PuL4VYz0VL31zuXgNJOriBFajGjgXhyomxCtmInj EiTG9rcT2eeA/pcB0JJz3FT2ZNyHQzk= Archived-At: Subject: [saag] EMU @ IETF 113 report X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:47:51 -0000 EMU WG met on Tuesday (March 22) between 13:00 - 14:00 (UTC+1). The following working group items were discussed: - draft-ietf-emu-aka-pfs - draft-ietf-emu-tls-eap-types The following non working group documents were presented: - draft-dekok-emu-eap-usability - draft-friel-tls-eap-dpp - draft-chen-emu-eap-tls-ibs - draft-rieckers-emu-eap-noob-observations and draft-rieckers-emu-eap-ute - draft-pala-eap-creds Joe and Mohit From nobody Wed Mar 23 18:02:18 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769F83A12E5 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:01:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cq3pkCSxvSiu for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qv1-xf34.google.com (mail-qv1-xf34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 974223A12EE for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qv1-xf34.google.com with SMTP id k7so2638217qvc.4 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:01:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :to; bh=UTI6xX3Tw/1SoUBdHlFRU6Qkc0jGVn20+8v39oWU7IE=; b=B7NwTcXIEdTIp3WnRrkB1tfBv7rtdCqyOR1hVRAfJA3xeYphailYvBl3ezQDLUMJXg UbRdiE51O22ywsJAs1ERbqGwVQGoDoed3KYRXZwpxia805VBqIaddGYJM3NHOiXe//uF zMxklw3cvN1DaLcBaxmMQPWQRZI9xec8mnir4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:message-id:date:to; bh=UTI6xX3Tw/1SoUBdHlFRU6Qkc0jGVn20+8v39oWU7IE=; b=O9N7e2B3NzWspLbbwKoluRt8qQ/CYDc5/rumW21DiHhM8zLV54Cnj2Bzy/N0eJE9ek fbh0dmfLSq39BZkoLQr0vCLVcoP8iY6QGZ5N8/rEHzvasJp9LADlZaCHkfUz7hsyTKC4 K8EYIK6GWiQ1apgYdKQcLQcTRhi+evzjPK9GEYil+4/v/zXt63FLUYY4QNPNhW9dHC4f /j19ubugPMDXeEjTddEvx7U6RNOvJ15AXzyZoIWKrHZ2gVZRpXKR76Whx/EysDyj89HX 41OjekNooi3iIzhW+MEsJAdCI5njYFgtWIGHIglaIiEDnpoDldo54S2NPPAfhvj8UNjd Yv0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531INvrBkDiKsk0c1ufhifxQ237T4WsVIkIa6FID/n+14pUKgaV/ eWiEw9rgzzhshG+jT72IwItf79Y8Tfz0fQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxkDzLVYCqsjq7Ya8yvLEeuKnIYkKBmVDfIlMni3CdLY70BNKIGTa1/wcDLTiw0EIfoX4ZmXg== X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4d44:0:b0:440:f857:c9d with SMTP id m4-20020ad44d44000000b00440f8570c9dmr2100787qvm.81.1648083689779; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-71-178-177-131.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [71.178.177.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l8-20020a05622a174800b002e1e3f7d4easm1261502qtk.86.2022.03.23.18.01.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Mar 2022 18:01:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Turner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:01:28 -0400 To: IETF SAAG , MLS List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: [saag] mls@ietf113: saag report X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:01:38 -0000 Hi! There were about ~80 people that attended the MLS session. We reviewed the outstanding Issues / Pull Requests on both the = -architecture and -protocol I-Ds. There are not many left. We expect to = have both I-Ds in WGLC shortly. Additionally, -federation is going be = revived now that the protocol work seems to have stabilized. Thanks to Stephen Farrell for being or in-person fixer and Robin Wilton = being our scribe! Cheers, Nick & Sean= From nobody Wed Mar 23 20:48:07 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153A93A12CA for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:48:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.708 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.708 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25sCUa6dWAnW for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 879B83A129A for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id o6so4518363ljp.3 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:48:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=J7Y9Olyfo2onZaGz9Ysu/6n/oMGMb75/z1fCgRP+inY=; b=HVv5FA25eTZPBrQ5KNDRVR/wUTseF1KbJ8XLA9RQ1+wUq7Wr/aUEXMt7yClTU65dSn m25lvYAEPrSt2rs0og0KtgUbRw5oyuGc17AaA55m3n7jcRHmzMQ5vImlbkNu3kD9Ff6q Em5+g/aAxBVME/+AoEjXarRY5hBcV6ZJlE67/TdrvtAHcQzESFljZNnqa7baE/7gfx2k aBw/hYtyJk5W3xWjwxKjK7kNRyXEk/bXb9FdKyHhPlU204vU9Str0+JIvg7SVIyFR5mP ua63ry6MNmnXWOaRTt7va5H+q28JsRvNWWQyZwk0pS7profwppjklZPougYK2pEL+oc7 mrAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=J7Y9Olyfo2onZaGz9Ysu/6n/oMGMb75/z1fCgRP+inY=; b=qB9LaWxxsKqWRyJaQYNM4vQFxBNAlXDdYWsLy/qf6AoNgVNY71IS14VVn9PkbApwfV rrfwEVpvnxTzgFhevWgK70jfLfpbi7Tkyr6KaXtYzA8oOqKzhsDtxLDCDoeW0U7pDQvf mVRuhEJj4a5D2Kc3mLf9dVAJJoJNMZrWTo3Wgz0Jkv/5hNb2DKPgLMXPjymNAzouqTgD 1C2uAvOV4Jw3Nh8fv8ips4EEhcsdFkPsshrrqOtInA+cnMeQ6xVKa1JsUzmU0Q9GgGrA bnJFUXGnz8BmU6OrwVAYOmKClE02TY4Pz8D8bT2DKeIGHCV70stOCCDFA7f6AHhc34ho YXDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533FL0sSAZU7V9PHwqUKFlDwQmTgM0y3x3DMFsqPgNBPxMc0SNzq IzuAEx9X+0+q39DzQto9yV9oXZDrSCHGgf/6x8qgmfOG X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwYKQFJmqY10n/H/8QKZgrE0V0z1AaetJqR7T5PZ6tHPb/uPh/GPnAywAslwdYT+vrTOpBPLv2zGlhp9PFdhW0= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:bf05:0:b0:247:b233:cfba with SMTP id c5-20020a2ebf05000000b00247b233cfbamr2610009ljr.131.1648093679725; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:47:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Daniel Migault Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 23:49:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: saag Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000056312d05daeeb67e" Archived-At: Subject: [saag] Ace report X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 03:48:05 -0000 --00000000000056312d05daeeb67e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" We met during the ietf 113. We have 6 drafts in the rfc queue, 3 drafts in ad review, 4 drafts in progress. Yours, Daniel --00000000000056312d05daeeb67e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
We met during the ietf 113.
We have 6 drafts in the rfc queue, 3 drafts in ad review, 4 drafts in progress.
Yours,
Daniel
--00000000000056312d05daeeb67e-- From nobody Wed Mar 23 21:06:22 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 280123A08B1; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:06:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=smyslov.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XRb-3eEZgT99; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 601DD3A08AE; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:06:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smyslov.net ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=2efAg+o/rMuVPKx2IFzf6IjSkNPqWbfubES7fDhv/ok=; b=YwGfqYSyz+kRLzwiyGulK8ZO+k U3bOZn9C3NcRUmwX+lv9HAgFRnvd2Rzz1embKaVEPWV4SPz4sFicRycer4thAO0cu8PSMEXoivHmY qlhg7SEI3OnCf1chikuUQNpPUXPwwvklfHUuu7RH4E/l1kIYZNQbca7ee4tlFYfks/BGtjJKG2Zpe ZQ9vPscLoU5R+2Aa+qV03MFwQqB4HAhRoa1j443J+CbVNXu0nm7oeyKihNjhAy3QccHQSTFgADkpX +KMddPP2Vs5AZMtjNev3WectmXgVflYzbT7YlQHoqJ3+URCKyo95T+/OGm4PdCGE4iffyLUFgCV66 R/e262/Q==; Received: from [31.148.136.103] (port=52914 helo=svannotebook) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1nXEje-0002kw-UE; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 00:06:07 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 07:06:02 +0300 Message-ID: <008c01d83f34$7bdb5290$7391f7b0$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: Adg/NCpTcgePCmZ1QxeEM7hH9ubeIA== Content-Language: ru X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net Archived-At: Subject: [saag] UTA WG report for IETF 113 X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 04:06:20 -0000 UTA didn't meet at IETF 113. We have three WG documents. 1. draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis has passed the WGLC and will be sent to the IESG soon. 2. draft-ietf-uta-rfc6125bis is almost ready and the WGLC will be issued soon. 3. draft-ietf-uta-tls13-iot-profile waits for more discussions. Leif & Valery From nobody Wed Mar 23 21:20:41 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134033A0BF2; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:20:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=smyslov.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqSHjroC0PGl; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48F8F3A0BF0; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:20:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smyslov.net ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=PAgjEIhMNfUN3TX/dvtxEmaZHCkfkbDilehH7AJK4UQ=; b=ahMXy2ANxmzFJfWeoYWwgMR0D3 hiUb1Q+ZJLZKv+EVw2G9gEagXF8P29aIeDAxfRWngH7ojzasHqeANWnTbTozuyCW7povAejlO2Y1z jnmO0Wqpix3yYeBUM6hKm1dkDncY6mkLIOrpw6ihPEZvMpstKIPsmxU3M62Er3ZiKjfoFeVBBU8s/ U0kLB5DAj2yYGEGLfDqCyAY6RTQ2Fetzu8GtplJvwp/L/sv/6iz7g9vsAhWIqysVaP9auX0l7dNG8 VTnIVCTO4d9mXcl9OhJu2SxFfm+0EFZCiMv+hVGeVOq+smx2nsb5qFDq59A+A91lIK/pTk9xOZb59 b2CgCYuw==; Received: from [31.148.136.103] (port=53003 helo=svannotebook) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1nXExZ-0007Az-6M; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 00:20:29 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 07:20:24 +0300 Message-ID: <008d01d83f36$7dc5f9a0$7951ece0$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: Adg/NJm4VVCW6fdzSZCj4yI2Nq7c2A== Content-Language: ru X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net Archived-At: Subject: [saag] DOTS WG report for IETF 113 X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 04:20:39 -0000 DOTS didn't meet at IETF 113. Since last IETF RFC 9066 (Signal Channel Call Home) was published. Out of four WG documents, one (draft-ietf-dots-telemetry) is in the RFC Editor queue, two (draft-ietf-dots-multihoming and draft-ietf-dots-robust-blocks) are submitted to the IESG and the fourth (draft-ietf-dots-telemetry-use-cases) has passed WGLC and will be submitted to the IESG soon. No new documents were adopted since IETF 112. 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X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 07:55:40 -0000 --------------6DtxOs592bWHtckjk53HlQIB Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------erOeH412DQ6P04rR0i4UUwOu"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: "saag@ietf.org" , "openpgp@ietf.org" Message-ID: <50bf9209-aed2-462e-7b2a-3e2dd9c85437@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: [openpgp] OpenPGP wg notes for saag --------------erOeH412DQ6P04rR0i4UUwOu Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------59BGuWoVZ0bS8dM1t42Jik4r" --------------59BGuWoVZ0bS8dM1t42Jik4r Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQpPcGVuUEdQIG1ldCBNb25kYXkgYW5kIHJldmlld2VkIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHN0YXRlIG9m IHRoZQ0KZGVzaWduIHRlYW0ncyBvdXRwdXQuIFdlJ3JlIGhvcGluZyB0aGF0IHRoZSBEVCBh cmUgbmVhcmx5DQoiZG9uZSIgYW5kIHdpbGwgc29vbiBiZSBhYmxlIHRvIHByZXNlbnQgdGhl IFdHIHdpdGggYQ0KZHJhZnQgdGhhdCdzIHN1aXRhYmxlIGZvciBXR0xDIGluIHRoZSBuZXh0 IGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtb250aHMuDQoNCkNoZWVycywNClMuDQo= --------------59BGuWoVZ0bS8dM1t42Jik4r 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T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xtL-94edSfeH for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p226.piuha.net [193.234.219.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 667FA3A14D4 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (dhcp-9af6.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.154.246]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B76086600E3; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 10:19:28 +0200 (EET) From: Jari Arkko Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E1186BFE-7C51-446A-B194-DC2246984741" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Message-Id: <105B91CD-1488-482E-A2E7-2D1DCE7B3E2A@piuha.net> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 09:19:27 +0100 Cc: russ@riw.us To: saag@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: [saag] Model-T summary X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 08:19:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E1186BFE-7C51-446A-B194-DC2246984741 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Since the December virtual meeting the group has had some amount of = discussion on the list, and three drafts have been posted this year. I = think we also have at one other document being worked that could be = posted soon. In the December meeting, we divided potentially useful things we could = do in two categories: 1/ documenting specific design principles motivated by evolving = situation, to be published as short IAB RFCs 2/ proposing a way forward to document a change in the threat model, and = bring/send it to the IETF Documents relating to item 1 have been discussed on the mailing list, = and revised. Two drafts discussed in this category currently: = draft-thomson-tmi on careful use of intermediaries, and = draft-arkko-iab-data-minimization-principle on careful release of data = to other parties (=E2=80=9Conly do it on a need-to-know-basis=E2=80=9D). = The idea for these documents is that whatever we produce should not be = an all-encompassing-cover-everything documents, but address specific, = narrow issues that we believe are reasonable guidance at present time. A design team was formed for item 2 that has worked on a proposal and = organised a meeting. Specific proposal to be published though. There=E2=80=99s an ongoing doodle poll for a meeting of the model-t = program, sometime in the weeks after the IETF. See the model-t mailing = list archives for more information in = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/model-t/ = =20 Jari --Apple-Mail=_E1186BFE-7C51-446A-B194-DC2246984741 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Since the December virtual meeting the group has had some = amount of discussion on the list, and three drafts have been posted this = year. I think we also have at one other document being worked that = could be posted soon.

In the = December meeting, we divided potentially useful things we could do in = two categories:

1/ documenting specific = design principles motivated by evolving situation, to be published as = short IAB RFCs
2/ proposing a way forward to document a = change in the threat model, and bring/send it to the IETF

Documents relating to item 1 have been = discussed on the mailing list, and revised. Two drafts discussed in this = category currently: draft-thomson-tmi on careful use of intermediaries, = and draft-arkko-iab-data-minimization-principle on careful release = of data to other parties (=E2=80=9Conly do it on a = need-to-know-basis=E2=80=9D). The idea for these documents is that = whatever we produce should not be an = all-encompassing-cover-everything documents, but address specific, = narrow issues that we believe are reasonable guidance at present = time.

A design team was formed for = item 2 that has worked on a proposal and organised a meeting. Specific = proposal to be published though.

There=E2=80=99= s an ongoing doodle poll for a meeting of the model-t program, sometime = in the weeks after the IETF. See the model-t mailing list archives for = more information in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/model-t/ 

Jari

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The purpose is to decide if the WG has sufficient energy to recharter = and take on more work. 1 document is at the RFC Editor; 3 in IESG processing; 2 at the WG = (registration interface and consumer facing interface) Linda and Yoav From nobody Thu Mar 24 01:42:13 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D333A154D for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:42:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass 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--_000_SA2PR00MB1004BB3EDBBFF36A85B93D5CF5199SA2PR00MB1004namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable COSE met on Monday and covered a packed agenda of active work and proposed = work. We are very close to completing the Standard versions of our Draft Standard= specifications. Four pieces of proposed work were presented. Working group review of each = individual specification was requested. Ben Kaduk opined that the proposed BLS curves work is within scope of the C= OSE charter. We thanked Ben Kaduk for his service as Security Area Director. The meeting minutes are at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materia= ls/minutes-113-cose-00. -- Mike --_000_SA2PR00MB1004BB3EDBBFF36A85B93D5CF5199SA2PR00MB1004namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

COSE met on Monday and covered a packed agenda of ac= tive work and proposed work.

 

We are very close to completing the Standard version= s of our Draft Standard specifications.

 

Four pieces of proposed work were presented.  W= orking group review of each individual specification was requested.

 

Ben Kaduk opined that the proposed BLS curves work i= s within scope of the COSE charter.

 

We thanked Ben Kaduk for his service as Security Are= a Director.

 

The meeting minutes are at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/minutes-113-cose-00.=

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        -- Mike

 

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: uwe.nsa.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BLAPR09MB7249.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: eefbdc3f-d8a2-45c1-8835-08da0e5130d9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Mar 2022 11:18:29.9798 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d61e9a6f-fc16-4f84-8a3e-6eeff33e136b X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR09MB6591 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:18:43 -0000 Hi Roman, =09 Thank you for keeping track of the PQ work in IETF (and thanks to Panos for= reviving this topic)! Is the PQ activity list something that others are ab= le to update? There is a draft, JSON Encoding for PQ Signatures (draft-pror= ock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00), and another newly-uploaded draft, dra= ft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth, that can be added to the list. Also- though it is still being worked out which protocols are in the scope = of the proposed PQ Agility WG charter, could it be helpful to establish a s= eparate mail-list, as a place to begin these conversations? Rebecca -----Original Message----- From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM To: Kampanakis, Panos ; saag@ietf.org Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" Hi Panos! No updates. While there is concrete charter text describing the mechanics = of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe what proto= cols would be in scope for the initial body of work. Progress is blocked p= ending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what protocols need= a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address it). Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf). I've been tryin= g to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://gcc02.sa= felinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2F= sec%2Fwiki%2FPQCAgility&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932= 872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637= 836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI= iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DAoUcD0vWmShCxinFoJRzqq8M= r5z9aIAycqchpMKiIj4%3D&reserved=3D0. Regards, Roman > -----Original Message----- > From: Kampanakis, Panos > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM > To: saag@ietf.org > Cc: Roman Danyliw ; Benjamin Kaduk > Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" >=20 > Hi Roman, Ben, >=20 > Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back. >=20 > Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by=20 > IETF- 113? >=20 > Thanks, > Panos >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: saag On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J.=20 > (GRC- > LCN0) > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM > To: saag@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft text=20 > for a PQ Maintenance WG" >=20 > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do=20 > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender=20 > and know the content is safe. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi >=20 > I think the charter looks fine. >=20 > Thanks > Chuck >=20 > Charles J. Sheehe III > Computer Engineer > Secure Networks, System > Integration and Test Branch (LCN) > Glenn Research Center > 21000 Brookpark Rd > Cleveland, OH 44135 > Charles.J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email > Charles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail > Office: 216-433-5179 > It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how=20 > the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them = better. >=20 > The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose=20 > face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who=20 > errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort=20 > without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the=20 > deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends=20 > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the=20 > triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at=20 > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with t= hose cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. > Theodore Roosevelt >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM > To: Kampanakis, Panos ; Salz, Rich=20 > ; Benjamin Kaduk ;=20 > saag@ietf.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ=20 > Maintenance WG" >=20 > Hi! >=20 >=20 >=20 > We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short hand to=20 > characterize this potential body of work. The intent was what Panos=20 > described > - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF protocol=20 > to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the=20 > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym])=20 > is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols,=20 > registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanisms." > (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgit > hub.com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-charter.m > d&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0 > cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C63783633799591358 > 4%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 > Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DqmZgx%2BJWwcrKtqD7fwcL2lK43UQa > 5K0dPkZYl0n2ZGo%3D&reserved=3D0=20 > com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm- > charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7 > C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat > a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved > =3D0> ). I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the header of the templated= =20 > charter. It now reads "PQC Agility WG". The term didn't appear in=20 > the charter text itself. However, to eliminate all possible c =20 > onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol maintenance= /protocol changes/. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Roman >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: Kampanakis, Panos > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM > To: Salz, Rich ; Roman Danyliw=20 > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; saag@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" >=20 >=20 >=20 > Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for=20 > orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448. >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: saag > On=20 > Behalf Of Salz, Rich > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM > To: Ludovic Perret >; Roman Danyliw=20 > >; Benjamin Kaduk >; saag@ietf.org > Cc: Kampanakis, Panos > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ=20 > Maintenance WG" >=20 >=20 >=20 > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do=20 > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender=20 > and know the content is safe. >=20 >=20 >=20 > I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww. > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe. > nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff > 33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&s > data=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved=3D= 0 _______________________________________________ saag mailing list saag@ietf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.go= v%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0= %7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI= joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39= IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Fri Mar 25 06:07:22 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFDFA3A1138 for ; 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Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:07:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <66A20135-5437-43E4-9F74-AE1D1FDB3A59@gmail.com> <02E8D61E-D96B-4520-A781-4EB43014BFB8@gmail.com> <66F981E1-05BB-4B4D-8DE4-006023094F15@akamai.com> <24a7328bd1814769a6f47ae00f682be3@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> <16dae1e5137a48079d976bcb93185925@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mike Prorock Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 09:07:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: Roman Danyliw Cc: "Kampanakis, Panos" , "saag@ietf.org" , Orie Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000dd5d205db0aa432" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 13:07:20 -0000 --0000000000000dd5d205db0aa432 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Two items moving forward on this area that I am aware of are: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-uni-qsckeys-00.html and https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00.html As I am working directly on the latter - I can note that we have been receiving good engagement on the topic in the COSE WG, but due to the current stage of NIST review we could see some slowdowns as a result. Mike Prorock CTO, Founder https://mesur.io/ On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 8:03 AM Roman Danyliw wrote: > Hi Panos! > > No updates. While there is concrete charter text describing the mechanics > of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe what > protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work. Progress is > blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what > protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address it). > > Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf). I've been > trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility. > > Regards, > Roman > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kampanakis, Panos > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM > > To: saag@ietf.org > > Cc: Roman Danyliw ; Benjamin Kaduk > > Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > Hi Roman, Ben, > > > > Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back. > > > > Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by > IETF- > > 113? > > > > Thanks, > > Panos > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: saag On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J. (GRC- > > LCN0) > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM > > To: saag@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft text for > a PQ > > Maintenance WG" > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not > click > > links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > I think the charter looks fine. > > > > Thanks > > Chuck > > > > Charles J. Sheehe III > > Computer Engineer > > Secure Networks, System > > Integration and Test Branch (LCN) > > Glenn Research Center > > 21000 Brookpark Rd > > Cleveland, OH 44135 > > Charles.J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email > > Charles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail > > Office: 216-433-5179 > > It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the > strong > > man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. > > > > The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose > face is > > marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who > > comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and > > shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows > great > > enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; > who > > at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at > the > > worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his > place shall never > > be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. > > Theodore Roosevelt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM > > To: Kampanakis, Panos ; Salz, Rich > > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; > > saag@ietf.org > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance > > WG" > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short hand to > > characterize this potential body of work. The intent was what Panos > described > > - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF protocol to > allow > > it to benefit from PQC mechanisms. > > > > > > > > The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the > intent -- > > "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym]) is chartered > > as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols, registries, and > associated > > code points with PQ cryptographic mechanisms." > > ( > https://github.com/rdanyliw/ietf-pq-maintenance/blob/main/pqm-charter.md > > < > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub. > > com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm- > > charter.md&data=04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e > > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7 > > C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w > > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat > > a=mJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved > > =0> ). I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the header of the templated > > charter. It now reads "PQC Agility WG". The term didn't appear in the > charter > > text itself. However, to eliminate all possible c onfusion I also the > one instance > > of maintenance by s/protocol maintenance/protocol changes/. > > > > > > > > Roman > > > > > > > > From: Kampanakis, Panos > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM > > To: Salz, Rich ; Roman Danyliw > > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; saag@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > > > > > Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for > > orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448. > > > > > > > > From: saag > On > > Behalf Of Salz, Rich > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM > > To: Ludovic Perret > >; Roman Danyliw > > >; Benjamin Kaduk > >; saag@ietf.org > > Cc: Kampanakis, Panos > > > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance > > WG" > > > > > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not > click > > links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > saag mailing list > > saag@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > --0000000000000dd5d205db0aa432 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Two items moving forward on this area that I am aware of a= re:
and
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signature= s-00.html

As I am working=C2=A0directly on= the latter - I can note that we have been receiving good engagement on the= topic in the COSE WG, but due to the current stage of NIST review we could= see some slowdowns as a result.

Mike Prorock
CTO, Founder



On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 8:03 AM Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> wrote:
Hi Panos!

No updates.=C2=A0 While there is concrete charter text describing the mecha= nics of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe w= hat protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work.=C2=A0 Progres= s is blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what = protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address= it).

Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf).=C2=A0 I've b= een trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility.

Regards,
Roman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Cc: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenanc= e WG"
>
> Hi Roman, Ben,
>
> Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back.
>
> Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by= IETF-
> 113?
>
> Thanks,
> Panos
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J. (GRC-
> LCN0)
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft te= xt for a PQ
> Maintenance WG"
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do no= t click
> links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know t= he
> content is safe.
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I think the charter looks fine.
>
> Thanks
> Chuck
>
> Charles J. Sheehe III
> Computer Engineer
> Secure Networks, System
> Integration and Test Branch (LCN)
> Glenn Research Center
> 21000 Brookpark Rd
> Cleveland, OH 44135
> Charles= .J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email
> Cha= rles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail
> Office: 216-433-5179
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is not the critic who counts; not the man who p= oints out how the strong
> man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.<= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The credit belongs to the man who is actually in th= e arena, whose face is
> marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, w= ho
> comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error = and
> shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows g= reat
> enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause= ; who
> at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who = at the
> worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his p= lace shall never
> be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat= .
> Theodore Roosevelt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM
> To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>; Salz, Rich
> <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>;
> saag@ietf.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Mai= ntenance
> WG"
>
> Hi!
>
>
>
> We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" sh= ort hand to
> characterize this potential body of work.=C2=A0 The intent was what Pa= nos described
> - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF = protocol to allow
> it to benefit from PQC mechanisms.
>
>
>
> The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the i= ntent --
> "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym]) is ch= artered
> as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols, registries, and as= sociated
> code points with PQ cryptographic mechanisms."
> (https://github.com/rda= nyliw/ietf-pq-maintenance/blob/main/pqm-charter.md
> <https://gcc02.saf= elinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
> com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-
> charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e<= br> > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7
> C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat=
> a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved
> =3D0> ).=C2=A0 I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the= header of the templated
> charter.=C2=A0 It now reads "PQC Agility WG".=C2=A0 The term= didn't appear in the charter
> text itself.=C2=A0 However, to eliminate all possible c=C2=A0 onfusion= I also the one instance
> of maintenance by s/protocol maintenance/protocol changes/.
>
>
>
> Roman
>
>
>
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM
> To: Salz, Rich <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Roman Danyliw > <rdd@cert.org= >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>; = saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG= "
>
>
>
> Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for=
> orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448.<= br> >
>
>
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:saag-bounces@ietf.org> > On
> Behalf Of Salz, Rich
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM
> To: Ludovic Perret <ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com
> <mailto:ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com> >; Roman= Danyliw
> <rdd@cert.org= <mailto:rdd@cert.org<= /a>> >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu
> <mailto:kaduk@mi= t.edu> >; saag= @ietf.org <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
> Cc: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos=3D40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org
> <mailto:kpanos=3D40amazon.com= @dmarc.ietf.org> >
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Mai= ntenance
> WG"
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do no= t click
> links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know t= he
> content is safe.
>
>
>
> I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> saag mailing list
> saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag

_______________________________________________
saag mailing list
saag@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag
--0000000000000dd5d205db0aa432-- From nobody Fri Mar 25 06:08:37 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B636B3A1222 for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:08:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.907 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mesur-io.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F8PVexwh2bkt for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x92f.google.com (mail-ua1-x92f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61B3B3A0B72 for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x92f.google.com with SMTP id 34so3300408uao.13 for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:08:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mesur-io.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NAvZVFKRtRRBhr0excataMXpuBTJUFdBIr86HBY8eF8=; b=tNxPqfHFTWLev6/W8SjAVCi3YWMOc7NUNcRKFPnO2RTKAZO75Vv2Ihq7bhdoJ5er/4 xdf5JgUPSFUNSqzfp0R0jsYZzLpiYY3Nh/yfV/NWwHqUSc1VCYZzL/MKtMUUHv6VFMPl C3+M6e1/ng7KPoVMDrR3xIaZXkTxJT7TQF7Fozy48RyocjoVstE+3wrUzZ5AQRaWzF7d xP2fxM9gYrGJweIjrIoeej+YyflvSBFFt2HPMREAPZMy4zPHRE8uocv2V41jn9NOmXz9 3EE8VXLUV777HCQ8H655sKPw5cNXjJNvSOogIK6vvsQWdW622tSZWV7OS65aQ8eABUX8 asYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NAvZVFKRtRRBhr0excataMXpuBTJUFdBIr86HBY8eF8=; b=rc4fCc6wGKFry2uvB0LxFDWkEbWYPpg1k3vLqy53zhFniSNpy4iCHZzJC40sD93mJM KadAgM/rFImVxFfow1KHLBOaxuTPMNjOv0SMUfDcyPH5rQFapda6DdgK8o0Z5vkNaPCs AfyLob877CgywhXBRTAKy70lY6AOqyhHjo4ZLRoZY3F6ygk9Y4N2lSD5ypZKS6C45s69 IV5XplRY+Qg4IuYcm08Y5EEW6rFZX/OeYGK1ztdcfCbmzqdS+9BMdLj+XQ/ZS/4KvdOK tve7jbplM7fo/jCKMOdBtg/ckZhz+HF1N8xAqYqqeY9hNCHgapMttNi6G02crvNYmwPS 79oA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533O0l00UjEL5nqDi5dasV0EWOtdkfEsybk7NuUG5oQg+HsfUrUv 1dkThG/oVWaJCnafnEg34wKQ6MNAxyZtKfmFQ9yQwazOog== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx85OA/ZmD0m5EQkp0hwlGvJ1woonD/9jpV3hrjybdwbsjIWOkpELlLppLKYok/kuSJ5obX/OX+rCi4SOBgmjo= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:3b2e:0:b0:347:33ae:e5e4 with SMTP id i46-20020a9f3b2e000000b0034733aee5e4mr4574995uah.49.1648213708743; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:08:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <66A20135-5437-43E4-9F74-AE1D1FDB3A59@gmail.com> <02E8D61E-D96B-4520-A781-4EB43014BFB8@gmail.com> <66F981E1-05BB-4B4D-8DE4-006023094F15@akamai.com> <24a7328bd1814769a6f47ae00f682be3@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> <16dae1e5137a48079d976bcb93185925@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mike Prorock Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 09:08:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: Rebecca Guthrie Cc: Roman Danyliw , "saag@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009fb87705db0aa8f8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 13:08:36 -0000 --0000000000009fb87705db0aa8f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Email crossed - yes, thank you Rebecca - we are actively working on the PQC Signature side of things with some great support from a variety of parties. Getting a defined list as this is an evolving space would be great. Mike Prorock CTO, Founder https://mesur.io/ On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 7:19 AM Rebecca Guthrie wrote: > Hi Roman, > > Thank you for keeping track of the PQ work in IETF (and thanks to Panos > for reviving this topic)! Is the PQ activity list something that others a= re > able to update? There is a draft, JSON Encoding for PQ Signatures > (draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00), and another newly-upload= ed > draft, draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth, that can be added to the > list. > > Also- though it is still being worked out which protocols are in the scop= e > of the proposed PQ Agility WG charter, could it be helpful to establish a > separate mail-list, as a place to begin these conversations? > > Rebecca > > -----Original Message----- > From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM > To: Kampanakis, Panos ; saag@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > Hi Panos! > > No updates. While there is concrete charter text describing the mechanic= s > of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe what > protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work. Progress is > blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what > protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address i= t). > > Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf). I've been > trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.= ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fsec%2Fwiki%2FPQCAgility&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uw= e.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e= 136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM= DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DAoUcD0= vWmShCxinFoJRzqq8Mr5z9aIAycqchpMKiIj4%3D&reserved=3D0 > . > > Regards, > Roman > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kampanakis, Panos > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM > > To: saag@ietf.org > > Cc: Roman Danyliw ; Benjamin Kaduk > > Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > Hi Roman, Ben, > > > > Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back. > > > > Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by > > IETF- 113? > > > > Thanks, > > Panos > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: saag On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J. > > (GRC- > > LCN0) > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM > > To: saag@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft text > > for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender > > and know the content is safe. > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > I think the charter looks fine. > > > > Thanks > > Chuck > > > > Charles J. Sheehe III > > Computer Engineer > > Secure Networks, System > > Integration and Test Branch (LCN) > > Glenn Research Center > > 21000 Brookpark Rd > > Cleveland, OH 44135 > > Charles.J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email > > Charles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail > > Office: 216-433-5179 > > It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how > > the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done the= m > better. > > > > The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose > > face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who > > errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort > > without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the > > deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends > > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the > > triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at > > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with > those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. > > Theodore Roosevelt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM > > To: Kampanakis, Panos ; Salz, Rich > > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; > > saag@ietf.org > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > > Maintenance WG" > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short hand to > > characterize this potential body of work. The intent was what Panos > > described > > - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF protocol > > to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms. > > > > > > > > The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the > > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym]) > > is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols, > > registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanisms= ." > > (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgi= t > > hub.com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-charter.m > > d&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da= 0 > > cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C63783633799591358 > > 4%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 > > Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DqmZgx%2BJWwcrKtqD7fwcL2lK43UQ= a > > 5K0dPkZYl0n2ZGo%3D&reserved=3D0 > > < > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithu= b. > > com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm- > > charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e > > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7 > > C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w > > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat > > a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved > > =3D0> ). I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the header of the template= d > > charter. It now reads "PQC Agility WG". The term didn't appear in > > the charter text itself. However, to eliminate all possible c > > onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol > maintenance/protocol changes/. > > > > > > > > Roman > > > > > > > > From: Kampanakis, Panos > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM > > To: Salz, Rich ; Roman Danyliw > > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; saag@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > > > > > Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for > > orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448. > > > > > > > > From: saag > On > > Behalf Of Salz, Rich > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM > > To: Ludovic Perret > >; Roman Danyliw > > >; Benjamin Kaduk > >; saag@ietf.org > > Cc: Kampanakis, Panos > > > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > > Maintenance WG" > > > > > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender > > and know the content is safe. > > > > > > > > I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > saag mailing list > > saag@ietf.org > > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= . > > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe= . > > nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff > > 33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&s > > data=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved= =3D0 > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.= gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7= C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ= QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT= 39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved=3D0 > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > --0000000000009fb87705db0aa8f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Email crossed - yes, thank you Rebecca - we are actively w= orking on the PQC Signature side of things with some great support from a v= ariety of parties.=C2=A0 Getting a defined list as this is an evolving spac= e would be great.

Mike Proro= ck
CTO, Founder



On= Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 7:19 AM Rebecca Guthrie <rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote= :
Hi Roman,

Thank you for keeping track of the PQ work in IETF (and thanks to Panos for= reviving this topic)! Is the PQ activity list something that others are ab= le to update? There is a draft, JSON Encoding for PQ Signatures (draft-pror= ock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00), and another newly-uploaded draft, dra= ft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth, that can be added to the list.

Also- though it is still being worked out which protocols are in the scope = of the proposed PQ Agility WG charter, could it be helpful to establish a s= eparate mail-list, as a place to begin these conversations?

Rebecca

-----Original Message-----
From: saag <s= aag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM
To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>; saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG"= ;

Hi Panos!

No updates.=C2=A0 While there is concrete charter text describing the mecha= nics of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe w= hat protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work.=C2=A0 Progres= s is blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what = protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address= it).

Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf).=C2=A0 I've b= een trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlo= ok.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fsec%2Fwiki%2FPQCAgility&= amp;amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0c= c51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUn= known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ= XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DAoUcD0vWmShCxinFoJRzqq8Mr5z9aIAycqchpMKi= Ij4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0.

Regards,
Roman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Cc: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenanc= e WG"
>
> Hi Roman, Ben,
>
> Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back.
>
> Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by=
> IETF- 113?
>
> Thanks,
> Panos
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J.
> (GRC-
> LCN0)
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft te= xt
> for a PQ Maintenance WG"
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender =
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I think the charter looks fine.
>
> Thanks
> Chuck
>
> Charles J. Sheehe III
> Computer Engineer
> Secure Networks, System
> Integration and Test Branch (LCN)
> Glenn Research Center
> 21000 Brookpark Rd
> Cleveland, OH 44135
> Charles= .J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email
> Cha= rles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail
> Office: 216-433-5179
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is not the critic who counts; not the man who p= oints out how
> the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done th= em better.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The credit belongs to the man who is actually in th= e arena, whose
> face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who=
> errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort
> without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the =
> deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the
> triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be wit= h those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
> Theodore Roosevelt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM
> To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>; Salz, Rich
> <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>;
> saag@ietf.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG"
>
> Hi!
>
>
>
> We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" sh= ort hand to
> characterize this potential body of work.=C2=A0 The intent was what Pa= nos
> described
> - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF = protocol
> to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms.
>
>
>
> The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the <= br> > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acron= ym])
> is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols,
> registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanism= s."
> (https://gcc02.safelinks= .protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgit
> hub.co= m%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-charter.m
> d&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f78= 08da0
> cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C63783633799591358=
> 4%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6=
> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DqmZgx%2BJWwcrKtqD7fwcL2l= K43UQa
> 5K0dPkZYl0n2ZGo%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
> <https://gcc02.saf= elinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
> com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-
> charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e<= br> > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7
> C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat=
> a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved
> =3D0> ).=C2=A0 I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the= header of the templated
> charter.=C2=A0 It now reads "PQC Agility WG".=C2=A0 The term= didn't appear in
> the charter text itself.=C2=A0 However, to eliminate all possible c=C2= =A0
> onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol maintena= nce/protocol changes/.
>
>
>
> Roman
>
>
>
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM
> To: Salz, Rich <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Roman Danyliw > <rdd@cert.org= >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>; = saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG= "
>
>
>
> Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for=
> orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448.<= br> >
>
>
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:saag-bounces@ietf.org> > On
> Behalf Of Salz, Rich
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM
> To: Ludovic Perret <ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com
> <mailto:ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com> >; Roman= Danyliw
> <rdd@cert.org= <mailto:rdd@cert.org<= /a>> >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu
> <mailto:kaduk@mi= t.edu> >; saag= @ietf.org <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
> Cc: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos=3D40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org
> <mailto:kpanos=3D40amazon.com= @dmarc.ietf.org> >
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG"
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender =
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> saag mailing list
> saag@ietf.org > https://gcc02.safelinks.= protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> ietf.= org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.=
> nsa.go= v%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff
> 33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM=
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&a= mp;s
> data=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&amp;rese= rved=3D0

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--0000000000009fb87705db0aa8f8-- From nobody Fri Mar 25 20:37:11 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3631A3A0E77 for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 20:37:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.608 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.608 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazon.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 34Pj6GIuDAfU for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 20:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fw-33001.amazon.com (smtp-fw-33001.amazon.com [207.171.190.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4725F3A0E8F for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 20:37:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=amazon.com; i=@amazon.com; q=dns/txt; s=amazon201209; t=1648265825; x=1679801825; h=from:to:cc:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject; bh=XcD1y7dEaq1Vw0peNNyf4QGSCsOokrq11zB1kHcZfKk=; b=syA7peat89C8nf/lhFAIMT3UxeeKqTFjTtU/Fl0ovgqyk7DIJy0F9Bni qKUSRGbvwjp9rg7+Z+ipO+MV3xhG966xiDq32zcUZ5MnrAIInSdUMOtGr LuKZatskAYXlwB2/5RW0o2YCKL/7UP9aa/+DsvrZBNICZ8k+5WDjOdUEc Q=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.90,211,1643673600"; d="scan'208";a="184527334" Thread-Topic: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" Received: from iad12-co-svc-p1-lb1-vlan2.amazon.com (HELO email-inbound-relay-pdx-2a-2dbf0206.us-west-2.amazon.com) ([10.43.8.2]) by smtp-border-fw-33001.sea14.amazon.com with ESMTP; 26 Mar 2022 03:37:03 +0000 Received: from EX13MTAUWB001.ant.amazon.com (pdx1-ws-svc-p6-lb9-vlan2.pdx.amazon.com [10.236.137.194]) by email-inbound-relay-pdx-2a-2dbf0206.us-west-2.amazon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE10EA2829; Sat, 26 Mar 2022 03:37:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from EX13D01ANC001.ant.amazon.com (10.43.157.154) by EX13MTAUWB001.ant.amazon.com (10.43.161.249) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.32; Sat, 26 Mar 2022 03:37:00 +0000 Received: from EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com (10.43.157.68) by EX13D01ANC001.ant.amazon.com (10.43.157.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.32; Sat, 26 Mar 2022 03:36:59 +0000 Received: from EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com ([10.43.157.68]) by EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com ([10.43.157.68]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.033; Sat, 26 Mar 2022 03:36:59 +0000 From: "Kampanakis, Panos" To: Roman Danyliw , "saag@ietf.org" Thread-Index: AQHYPq39VvAL5YSDoU2i6d3O5RK6V6zRBjhQ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2022 03:36:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <66A20135-5437-43E4-9F74-AE1D1FDB3A59@gmail.com> <02E8D61E-D96B-4520-A781-4EB43014BFB8@gmail.com> <66F981E1-05BB-4B4D-8DE4-006023094F15@akamai.com> <24a7328bd1814769a6f47ae00f682be3@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> <16dae1e5137a48079d976bcb93185925@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.43.156.80] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2022 03:37:10 -0000 Thanks for the update Roman. FWIW, I will repeat that imo the new WG's charter should include SSH initia= lly. CURDLE ended up focusing on SSH as well. If participants want to focus= on more orphaned protocols for PQ migration then we could add DNSSEC, JSON= Signatures, Kerberos or more. CURDLE initially wanted to focus one some of= those as well, but it ended up working only on SSH. So, the new WG could s= tart small and update the charter as necessary. SSH is a good chunk of work= in itself.=20 Please note that NIST Round 3 will pick its first KEM in the next couple of= weeks and it would benefit the community to bring PQ-hybrid and auth to SS= H like other WGs are doing for IKEv2 and (D)TLS already. Rgs, Panos -----Original Message----- From: Roman Danyliw =20 Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM To: Kampanakis, Panos ; saag@ietf.org Cc: Benjamin Kaduk Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenan= ce WG" CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not cli= ck links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the= content is safe. Hi Panos! No updates. While there is concrete charter text describing the mechanics = of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe what proto= cols would be in scope for the initial body of work. Progress is blocked p= ending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what protocols need= a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address it). Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf). I've been tryin= g to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://trac.iet= f.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility. Regards, Roman > -----Original Message----- > From: Kampanakis, Panos > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM > To: saag@ietf.org > Cc: Roman Danyliw ; Benjamin Kaduk > Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > Hi Roman, Ben, > > Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back. > > Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by=20 > IETF- 113? > > Thanks, > Panos > > > -----Original Message----- > From: saag On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J.=20 > (GRC- > LCN0) > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM > To: saag@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft text=20 > for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do=20 > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender=20 > and know the content is safe. > > > > Hi > > I think the charter looks fine. > > Thanks > Chuck > > Charles J. Sheehe III > Computer Engineer > Secure Networks, System > Integration and Test Branch (LCN) > Glenn Research Center > 21000 Brookpark Rd > Cleveland, OH 44135 > Charles.J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email > Charles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail > Office: 216-433-5179 > It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how=20 > the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them = better. > > The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose=20 > face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who=20 > errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort=20 > without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the=20 > deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends=20 > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the=20 > triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at=20 > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with t= hose cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. > Theodore Roosevelt > > -----Original Message----- > From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM > To: Kampanakis, Panos ; Salz, Rich=20 > ; Benjamin Kaduk ;=20 > saag@ietf.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ=20 > Maintenance WG" > > Hi! > > > > We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short hand to=20 > characterize this potential body of work. The intent was what Panos=20 > described > - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF protocol=20 > to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms. > > > > The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the=20 > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym])=20 > is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols,=20 > registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanisms." > (https://github.com/rdanyliw/ietf-pq-maintenance/blob/main/pqm-charter > .md=20 > com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm- > charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7 > C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat > a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved > =3D0> ). I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the header of the templated= =20 > charter. It now reads "PQC Agility WG". The term didn't appear in=20 > the charter text itself. However, to eliminate all possible c =20 > onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol maintenance= /protocol changes/. > > > > Roman > > > > From: Kampanakis, Panos > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM > To: Salz, Rich ; Roman Danyliw=20 > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; saag@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for=20 > orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448. > > > > From: saag > On=20 > Behalf Of Salz, Rich > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM > To: Ludovic Perret >; Roman Danyliw=20 > >; Benjamin Kaduk >; saag@ietf.org > Cc: Kampanakis, Panos > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ=20 > Maintenance WG" > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do=20 > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender=20 > and know the content is safe. > > > > I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag From nobody Fri Mar 25 20:47:03 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB873A0E9A for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 20:47:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.607 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.607 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, 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boundary="_000_c1e9ee5e12f542a5be29103bb090f65cEX13D01ANC003antamazonc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2022 03:47:01 -0000 --_000_c1e9ee5e12f542a5be29103bb090f65cEX13D01ANC003antamazonc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgTWlrZSwgUmViZWNjYSwNCg0KQXMgbXVjaCBJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgZm9yIHRoaXMgbmV3IFdH IHRvIGJlIGZvcm1lZCwgSSBhbSBvZiB0aGUgb3BpbmlvbiB0aGF0IGlmIHRoZXNlIHR3byB3b3Jr IGl0ZW1zIGhhdmUgYSBnb29kIGV4aXN0aW5nIFdHLCB0aGV5IHNob3VsZCBiZSB3b3JrZWQgdGhl cmUuDQoNClRvIG1lLCBpdCBzZWVtcyB0aGF0IGRyYWZ0LWd1dGhyaWUtaXBzZWNtZS1pa2V2Mi1o eWJyaWQtYXV0aCBiZWxvbmdzIHRvIElQU0VDTUUsIGRyYWZ0LWJlY2tlci1ndXRocmllLWNlcnQt 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BLAPR09MB7249.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 52be935b-cf67-4cbb-eebf-08da103dce32 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Mar 2022 22:04:46.4058 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d61e9a6f-fc16-4f84-8a3e-6eeff33e136b X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO6PR09MB7782 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 22:05:03 -0000 --_000_BLAPR09MB7249BB09CFE04BDD9DDB8A55FC1C9BLAPR09MB7249namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Panos, Yes, I agree that the drafts do all belong to those respective working grou= ps. To clarify, I only meant to suggest that these drafts be added to the l= ist of PQ work in IETF at https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility, n= ot that these become work items for the PQ WG. Rebecca From: saag On Behalf Of Kampanakis, Panos Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 11:47 PM To: Mike Prorock ; Rebecca Guthrie Cc: saag@ietf.org Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" Hi Mike, Rebecca, As much I would like for this new WG to be formed, I am of the opinion that= if these two work items have a good existing WG, they should be worked the= re. To me, it seems that draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth belongs to IPS= ECME, draft-becker-guthrie-cert-binding-for-multi-auth belongs to LAMPS, dr= aft-becker-guthrie-noncomposite-hybrid-auth belongs to TLS or LAMPS, draft= -uni-qsckeys-00 belongs t= o LAMPS and draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures belongs to COSE. It = is always better to bring drafts to their corresponding areas of expertise = if it exists as that would guarantee the quality of a draft. Personally, I think the new PQ WG should focus on areas whose WGs have conc= luded and are currently orphan from an IETF WG. Rgs, Panos From: saag > On Behalf = Of Mike Prorock Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 9:08 AM To: Rebecca Guthrie > Cc: saag@ietf.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance W= G" CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not cli= ck links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the= content is safe. Email crossed - yes, thank you Rebecca - we are actively working on the PQC= Signature side of things with some great support from a variety of parties= . Getting a defined list as this is an evolving space would be great. Mike Prorock CTO, Founder https://mesur.io/ On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 7:19 AM Rebecca Guthrie > wrote: Hi Roman, Thank you for keeping track of the PQ work in IETF (and thanks to Panos for= reviving this topic)! Is the PQ activity list something that others are ab= le to update? There is a draft, JSON Encoding for PQ Signatures (draft-pror= ock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00), and another newly-uploaded draft, dra= ft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth, that can be added to the list. Also- though it is still being worked out which protocols are in the scope = of the proposed PQ Agility WG charter, could it be helpful to establish a s= eparate mail-list, as a place to begin these conversations? Rebecca -----Original Message----- From: saag > On Behalf = Of Roman Danyliw Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM To: Kampanakis, Panos >; saag@i= etf.org Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" Hi Panos! No updates. While there is concrete charter text describing the mechanics = of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe what proto= cols would be in scope for the initial body of work. Progress is blocked p= ending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what protocols need= a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address it). Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf). I've been tryin= g to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://gcc02.sa= felinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2F= sec%2Fwiki%2FPQCAgility&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932= 872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637= 836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI= iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DAoUcD0vWmShCxinFoJRzqq8M= r5z9aIAycqchpMKiIj4%3D&reserved=3D0. Regards, Roman > -----Original Message----- > From: Kampanakis, Panos > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM > To: saag@ietf.org > Cc: Roman Danyliw >; Benjamin Kaduk > > Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > Hi Roman, Ben, > > Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back. > > Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by > IETF- 113? > > Thanks, > Panos > > > -----Original Message----- > From: saag > On Behal= f Of Sheehe, Charles J. > (GRC- > LCN0) > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM > To: saag@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft text > for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender > and know the content is safe. > > > > Hi > > I think the charter looks fine. > > Thanks > Chuck > > Charles J. Sheehe III > Computer Engineer > Secure Networks, System > Integration and Test Branch (LCN) > Glenn Research Center > 21000 Brookpark Rd > Cleveland, OH 44135 > Charles.J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email > Charles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRm= ail > Office: 216-433-5179 > It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how > the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them = better. > > The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose > face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who > errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort > without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the > deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the > triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with t= hose cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. > Theodore Roosevelt > > -----Original Message----- > From: saag > On Behal= f Of Roman Danyliw > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM > To: Kampanakis, Panos >; Salz= , Rich > >= ; Benjamin Kaduk >; > saag@ietf.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG" > > Hi! > > > > We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short hand to > characterize this potential body of work. The intent was what Panos > described > - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF protocol > to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms. > > > > The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym]) > is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols, > registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanisms." > (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgit > hub.com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-= charter.m > d&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C6549= 32872ddc4f843f7808da0 > cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C63783633799591358 > 4%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 > Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DqmZgx%2BJWwcrKtqD7fwcL2lK43UQa > 5K0dPkZYl0n2ZGo%3D&reserved=3D0 > com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm- > charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd0= 92f22f99e > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7 > C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat > a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved > =3D0> ). I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the header of the templated > charter. It now reads "PQC Agility WG". The term didn't appear in > the charter text itself. However, to eliminate all possible c > onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol maintenance= /protocol changes/. > > > > Roman > > > > From: Kampanakis, Panos > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM > To: Salz, Rich >; Roman Danyliw > >; Benjamin Kaduk >; saag@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for > orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448. > > > > From: saag > > On > Behalf Of Salz, Rich > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM > To: Ludovic Perret > > >; Roman Danyliw > > >; Benjamin Kaduk > > >; saag@ietf.org > > Cc: Kampanakis, Panos > =3D40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG" > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender > and know the content is safe. > > > > I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww. > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmgu= thr%40uwe. > nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e= 6eeff > 33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&s > data=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved=3D= 0 _______________________________________________ saag mailing list saag@ietf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.go= v%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0= %7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI= joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39= IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved=3D0 _______________________________________________ saag mailing list saag@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag --_000_BLAPR09MB7249BB09CFE04BDD9DDB8A55FC1C9BLAPR09MB7249namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Panos,

 

Yes, I agree that the drafts do all belong to those = respective working groups. To clarify, I only meant to suggest that these d= rafts be added to the list of PQ work in IETF at https://trac.iet= f.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility, not that these become work items for th= e PQ WG.

 

Rebecca

 

From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> O= n Behalf Of Kampanakis, Panos
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 11:47 PM
To: Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>; Rebecca Guthrie <rmgu= thr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance = WG"

 

Hi Mike, Rebecca,

 

As much I would like for this new WG to be formed, I= am of the opinion that if these two work items have a good existing WG, th= ey should be worked there.

 

To me, it seems that draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hyb= rid-auth belongs to IPSECME, draft-becker-g= uthrie-cert-binding-for-multi-auth belongs to LAMPS, draft-becker-guthrie-noncomposite-hybrid-auth  belongs to TLS or L= AMPS, draft-uni-qsckeys-00 belongs to LAMPS and draft-prorock-cose-post-quant= um-signatures belongs to COSE. It is always better to bring drafts to their= corresponding areas of expertise if it exists as that would guarantee the = quality of a draft.

 

Personally, I think the new PQ WG should focus on ar= eas whose WGs have concluded and are currently orphan from an IETF WG.

 

Rgs,

Panos

 

 

From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mike Prorock
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 9:08 AM
To: Rebecca Guthrie <rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: saag@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ M= aintenance WG"

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organizati= on. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.=

 

Email crossed - yes, thank you Rebecca - we are acti= vely working on the PQC Signature side of things with some great support fr= om a variety of parties.  Getting a defined list as this is an evolvin= g space would be great.


Mike Prorock

CTO, Founder

 

 

 

On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 7:19 AM Rebecca Guthrie <= rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dma= rc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Roman,

Thank you for keeping track of the PQ work in IETF (and thanks to Panos for= reviving this topic)! Is the PQ activity list something that others are ab= le to update? There is a draft, JSON Encoding for PQ Signatures (draft-pror= ock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00), and another newly-uploaded draft, draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth,= that can be added to the list.

Also- though it is still being worked out which protocols are in the scope = of the proposed PQ Agility WG charter, could it be helpful to establish a s= eparate mail-list, as a place to begin these conversations?

Rebecca

-----Original Message-----
From: saag <s= aag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM
To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>; saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG"= ;

Hi Panos!

No updates.  While there is concrete charter text describing the mecha= nics of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe what = protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work.  Progress is= blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have an ex= isting WG to address it).

Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf).  I've been = trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ie= tf.org%2Ftrac%2Fsec%2Fwiki%2FPQCAgility&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40= uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff3= 3e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA= wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3D= AoUcD0vWmShCxinFoJRzqq8Mr5z9aIAycqchpMKiIj4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0.
Regards,
Roman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Cc: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenanc= e WG"
>
> Hi Roman, Ben,
>
> Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back.
>
> Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by=
> IETF- 113?
>
> Thanks,
> Panos
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J.
> (GRC-
> LCN0)
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft te= xt
> for a PQ Maintenance WG"
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender =
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I think the charter looks fine.
>
> Thanks
> Chuck
>
> Charles J. Sheehe III
> Computer Engineer
> Secure Networks, System
> Integration and Test Branch (LCN)
> Glenn Research Center
> 21000 Brookpark Rd
> Cleveland, OH 44135
> Charles= .J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email
> Cha= rles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail
> Office: 216-433-5179
>      It is not the critic who counts; not the man who p= oints out how
> the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done th= em better.
>
>     The credit belongs to the man who is actually in th= e arena, whose
> face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who=
> errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort
> without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the =
> deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the
> triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be wit= h those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
> Theodore Roosevelt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM
> To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>; Salz, Rich
> <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>;
> saag@ietf.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG"
>
> Hi!
>
>
>
> We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short = hand to
> characterize this potential body of work.  The intent was what Pa= nos
> described
> - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF = protocol
> to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms.
>
>
>
> The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the <= br> > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acron= ym])
> is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols,
> registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanism= s."
> (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook= .com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgit
> hub.com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-charter.m<= br> > d&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0 > cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C63783633799591358=
> 4%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6=
> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DqmZgx%2BJWwcrKtqD7fwcL2l= K43UQa
> 5K0dPkZYl0n2ZGo%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.o= utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
> com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-
> charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e
> c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7
> C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat=
> a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved
> =3D0> ).  I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the hea= der of the templated
> charter.  It now reads "PQC Agility WG".  The term= didn't appear in
> the charter text itself.  However, to eliminate all possible c&nb= sp;
> onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol maintena= nce/protocol changes/.
>
>
>
> Roman
>
>
>
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM
> To: Salz, Rich <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Roman Danyliw
> <rdd@cert.org= >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>; saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG= "
>
>
>
> Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for=
> orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448.<= br> >
>
>
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:saag-bounces@ietf.org> > On
> Behalf Of Salz, Rich
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM
> To: Ludovic Perret <ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com
> <mailto:ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com> >; Roman= Danyliw
> <rdd@cert.org= <mailto:rdd@cert.org<= /a>> >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu
> <mailto:kaduk@mi= t.edu> >; saag@ietf.org <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
> Cc: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos=3D40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org
> <mailto:kpanos=3D40amazon.com= @dmarc.ietf.org> >
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG"
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender =
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> saag mailing list
> saag@ietf.org > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= .
> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%4= 0uwe.
> nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff<= br> > 33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM=
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&a= mp;s
> data=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&amp;rese= rved=3D0

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Panos, I do think there are items that will arise (or that are arising) that might ot cleanly fit into one of the existing WGs which I believe you were referring to and finding a home and an approach will likely be needed. Mike Prorock CTO, Founder https://mesur.io/ On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 6:05 PM Rebecca Guthrie wrote: > Hi Panos, > > > > Yes, I agree that the drafts do all belong to those respective working > groups. To clarify, I only meant to suggest that these drafts be added to > the list of PQ work in IETF at > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility, not that these become > work items for the PQ WG. > > > > Rebecca > > > > *From:* saag *On Behalf Of * Kampanakis, Panos > *Sent:* Friday, March 25, 2022 11:47 PM > *To:* Mike Prorock ; Rebecca Guthrie 40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> > *Cc:* saag@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > Hi Mike, Rebecca, > > > > As much I would like for this new WG to be formed, I am of the opinion > that if these two work items have a good existing WG, they should be work= ed > there. > > > > To me, it seems that draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth belongs to > IPSECME, draft-becker-guthrie-cert-binding-for-multi-auth belongs to > LAMPS, draft-becker-guthrie-noncomposite-hybrid-auth > > belongs to TLS or LAMPS, draft-uni-qsckeys-00 > > belongs to LAMPS and draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures belongs t= o > COSE. It is always better to bring drafts to their corresponding areas of > expertise if it exists as that would guarantee the quality of a draft. > > > > Personally, I think the new PQ WG should focus on areas whose WGs have > concluded and are currently orphan from an IETF WG. > > > > Rgs, > > Panos > > > > > > *From:* saag *On Behalf Of *Mike Prorock > *Sent:* Friday, March 25, 2022 9:08 AM > *To:* Rebecca Guthrie > *Cc:* saag@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG" > > > > *CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not > click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and kno= w > the content is safe. > > > > Email crossed - yes, thank you Rebecca - we are actively working on the > PQC Signature side of things with some great support from a variety of > parties. Getting a defined list as this is an evolving space would be > great. > > > Mike Prorock > > CTO, Founder > > https://mesur.io/ > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 7:19 AM Rebecca Guthrie 40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Hi Roman, > > Thank you for keeping track of the PQ work in IETF (and thanks to Panos > for reviving this topic)! Is the PQ activity list something that others a= re > able to update? There is a draft, JSON Encoding for PQ Signatures > (draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00), and another newly-upload= ed > draft, draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth, that can be added to the > list. > > Also- though it is still being worked out which protocols are in the scop= e > of the proposed PQ Agility WG charter, could it be helpful to establish a > separate mail-list, as a place to begin these conversations? > > Rebecca > > -----Original Message----- > From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM > To: Kampanakis, Panos ; saag@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > Hi Panos! > > No updates. While there is concrete charter text describing the mechanic= s > of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe what > protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work. Progress is > blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what > protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address i= t). > > Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf). I've been > trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.= ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fsec%2Fwiki%2FPQCAgility&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uw= e.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e= 136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM= DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DAoUcD0= vWmShCxinFoJRzqq8Mr5z9aIAycqchpMKiIj4%3D&reserved=3D0 > > . > > Regards, > Roman > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kampanakis, Panos > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM > > To: saag@ietf.org > > Cc: Roman Danyliw ; Benjamin Kaduk > > Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > Hi Roman, Ben, > > > > Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back. > > > > Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by > > IETF- 113? > > > > Thanks, > > Panos > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: saag On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J. > > (GRC- > > LCN0) > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM > > To: saag@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft text > > for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender > > and know the content is safe. > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > I think the charter looks fine. > > > > Thanks > > Chuck > > > > Charles J. Sheehe III > > Computer Engineer > > Secure Networks, System > > Integration and Test Branch (LCN) > > Glenn Research Center > > 21000 Brookpark Rd > > Cleveland, OH 44135 > > Charles.J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email > > Charles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail > > Office: 216-433-5179 > > It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how > > the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done the= m > better. > > > > The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose > > face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who > > errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort > > without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the > > deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends > > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the > > triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at > > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with > those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. > > Theodore Roosevelt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM > > To: Kampanakis, Panos ; Salz, Rich > > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; > > saag@ietf.org > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > > Maintenance WG" > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short hand to > > characterize this potential body of work. The intent was what Panos > > described > > - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF protocol > > to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms. > > > > > > > > The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the > > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym]) > > is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols, > > registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanisms= ." > > (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgi= t > > hub.com > > %2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-charter.m > > d&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov > > %7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0 > > cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C63783633799591358 > > 4%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 > > Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DqmZgx%2BJWwcrKtqD7fwcL2lK43UQ= a > > 5K0dPkZYl0n2ZGo%3D&reserved=3D0 > > < > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithu= b. > > com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm- > > charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov > > %7Cd092f22f99e > > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7 > > C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w > > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat > > a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved > > =3D0> ). I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the header of the template= d > > charter. It now reads "PQC Agility WG". The term didn't appear in > > the charter text itself. However, to eliminate all possible c > > onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol > maintenance/protocol changes/. > > > > > > > > Roman > > > > > > > > From: Kampanakis, Panos > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM > > To: Salz, Rich ; Roman Danyliw > > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; saag@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" > > > > > > > > Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for > > orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448. > > > > > > > > From: saag > On > > Behalf Of Salz, Rich > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM > > To: Ludovic Perret > >; Roman Danyliw > > >; Benjamin Kaduk > >; saag@ietf.org > > Cc: Kampanakis, Panos > > > > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > > Maintenance WG" > > > > > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender > > and know the content is safe. > > > > > > > > I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > saag mailing list > > saag@ietf.org > > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= . > > ietf.org > > %2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe. > > nsa.gov > > %7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff > > 33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM > > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&s > > data=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved= =3D0 > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.= gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7= C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ= QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT= 39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved=3D0 > > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > --000000000000c2ed4005db465146 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1 Rebecca - add to list on the wiki
Mailing list on P= QC could be helpful as there are topics that cross WGs.

Panos,
I do think there are items that will arise (or that = are arising) that might ot cleanly fit into one of the existing=C2=A0WGs wh= ich I believe you were=C2=A0referring to and finding a home and an approach= will likely be needed.

M= ike Prorock
CTO, Founder


On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 6:05 PM Rebecca Guthrie <rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org&= gt; wrote:

Hi Panos,

=C2=A0

Yes, I agree that the drafts do all belong to those = respective working groups. To clarify, I only meant to suggest that these d= rafts be added to the list of PQ work in IETF at https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility, not that these become= work items for the PQ WG.

=C2=A0

Rebecca

=C2=A0

From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Kampanakis, Panos
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 11:47 PM
To: Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>; Rebecca Guthrie <rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc= .ietf.org>
Cc: saag@ietf.org=
Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance = WG"

=C2=A0

Hi Mike, Rebecca,

=C2=A0

As much I would like for this new WG to be formed, I= am of the opinion that if these two work items have a good existing WG, th= ey should be worked there.

=C2=A0

To me, it seems that draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hyb= rid-auth belongs to IPSECME, draft-becker-guthrie-cert-binding-for-multi-auth belongs to= LAMPS, draft-becker-guthrie-noncomposite-hybrid-auth =C2=A0belongs to TLS or L= AMPS, draft-uni-qsckeys-00 belongs to LAMPS and draft-prorock-cose-post-quant= um-signatures belongs to COSE. It is always better to bring drafts to their= corresponding areas of expertise if it exists as that would guarantee the = quality of a draft.

=C2=A0

Personally, I think the new PQ WG should focus on ar= eas whose WGs have concluded and are currently orphan from an IETF WG.

=C2=A0

Rgs,

Panos

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mike Prorock
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 9:08 AM
To: Rebecca Guthrie <rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org&= gt;
Cc: saag@ietf.org=
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ M= aintenance WG"

=C2=A0

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the orga= nization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Email crossed - yes, thank you Rebecca - we are acti= vely working on the PQC Signature side of things with some great support fr= om a variety of parties.=C2=A0 Getting a defined list as this is an evolvin= g space would be great.


Mike Prorock

CTO, Founder

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 7:19 AM Rebecca Guthrie <= rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Roman,

Thank you for keeping track of the PQ work in IETF (and thanks to Panos for= reviving this topic)! Is the PQ activity list something that others are ab= le to update? There is a draft, JSON Encoding for PQ Signatures (draft-pror= ock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00), and another newly-uploaded draft, draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth,= that can be added to the list.

Also- though it is still being worked out which protocols are in the scope = of the proposed PQ Agility WG charter, could it be helpful to establish a s= eparate mail-list, as a place to begin these conversations?

Rebecca

-----Original Message-----
From: saag <s= aag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM
To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>; saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG"= ;

Hi Panos!

No updates.=C2=A0 While there is concrete charter text describing the mecha= nics of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe w= hat protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work.=C2=A0 Progres= s is blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have a= n existing WG to address it).

Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf).=C2=A0 I've b= een trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ie= tf.org%2Ftrac%2Fsec%2Fwiki%2FPQCAgility&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40= uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff3= 3e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA= wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3D= AoUcD0vWmShCxinFoJRzqq8Mr5z9aIAycqchpMKiIj4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0.
Regards,
Roman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Cc: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenanc= e WG"
>
> Hi Roman, Ben,
>
> Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back.
>
> Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by=
> IETF- 113?
>
> Thanks,
> Panos
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J.
> (GRC-
> LCN0)
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft te= xt
> for a PQ Maintenance WG"
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender =
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I think the charter looks fine.
>
> Thanks
> Chuck
>
> Charles J. Sheehe III
> Computer Engineer
> Secure Networks, System
> Integration and Test Branch (LCN)
> Glenn Research Center
> 21000 Brookpark Rd
> Cleveland, OH 44135
> Charles= .J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email
> Cha= rles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail
> Office: 216-433-5179
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is not the critic who counts; not the man who p= oints out how
> the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done th= em better.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The credit belongs to the man who is actually in th= e arena, whose
> face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who=
> errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort
> without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the =
> deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the
> triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be wit= h those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
> Theodore Roosevelt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM
> To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>; Salz, Rich
> <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>;
> saag@ietf.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG"
>
> Hi!
>
>
>
> We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" sh= ort hand to
> characterize this potential body of work.=C2=A0 The intent was what Pa= nos
> described
> - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF = protocol
> to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms.
>
>
>
> The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the <= br> > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acron= ym])
> is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols,
> registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanism= s."
> (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook= .com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgit
> hub.com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-charter.m<= br> > d&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0 > cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C63783633799591358=
> 4%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6=
> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DqmZgx%2BJWwcrKtqD7fwcL2l= K43UQa
> 5K0dPkZYl0n2ZGo%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.o= utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
> com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-
> charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e
> c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7
> C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat=
> a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved
> =3D0> ).=C2=A0 I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the= header of the templated
> charter.=C2=A0 It now reads "PQC Agility WG".=C2=A0 The term= didn't appear in
> the charter text itself.=C2=A0 However, to eliminate all possible c=C2= =A0
> onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol maintena= nce/protocol changes/.
>
>
>
> Roman
>
>
>
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM
> To: Salz, Rich <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Roman Danyliw
> <rdd@cert.org= >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>; saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG= "
>
>
>
> Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for=
> orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448.<= br> >
>
>
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:saag-bounces@ietf.org> > On
> Behalf Of Salz, Rich
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM
> To: Ludovic Perret <ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com
> <mailto:ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com> >; Roman= Danyliw
> <rdd@cert.org= <mailto:rdd@cert.org<= /a>> >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu
> <mailto:kaduk@mi= t.edu> >; saag@ietf.org <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
> Cc: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos=3D40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org
> <mailto:kpanos=3D40amazon.com= @dmarc.ietf.org> >
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG"
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender =
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> saag mailing list
> saag@ietf.org > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= .
> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%4= 0uwe.
> nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff<= br> > 33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM=
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&a= mp;s
> data=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&amp;rese= rved=3D0

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saag@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag
--000000000000c2ed4005db465146-- From nobody Mon Mar 28 07:49:37 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE203A1550 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2022 07:49:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GPjDVfj6abtF for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2022 07:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x529.google.com (mail-ed1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F7053A1557 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2022 07:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x529.google.com with SMTP id x34so17196955ede.8 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2022 07:49:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WQGaPd3SiaWcN+rkLVz4I64sFbezep1zK/tOZfbNyR4=; b=pIus9979rkvXh2pHl6HAQkQl9oVQebYIW/wwpMu2aWnKL+cFONVUNrFnW2zvmP59am LBI1aQMvwubi5bR8WlUVMPS8WpSueHfRizL+FNUJnmaElbLr10JVI7+5jfVnk2xXubMP Z/zGttPwflBlMw8qUO3CH+tkQ8ENQSgdorJu3CB8ZnPPqSe7ZNpMTN9Ich3sPrkISDIY iP1/zenPucKRKBG4i9rLIS5OuEIPTtjBFkTOniORy8mW3KZdBVN9opv2+y6NmtsL3iO+ 1LoHKsXuVSB8AlF5d4686gp/Yp/Kn9/KAdAojLnqLO3JlyFgkAoYPnM3hj/doTxb+KH2 Lazg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WQGaPd3SiaWcN+rkLVz4I64sFbezep1zK/tOZfbNyR4=; b=oYU6t9IoS+ztaZ50iiyjO9qU8pSIIcwhsE4qD9FDGy+EEjt9dn8J8qujf3huWubu4R IyzVV+uWCX0yM/si1rN6fuIbcgtGn/iXBN88YkkoSUuCQozEC5uD6VnN+4it1FWbAOPB z5QuXXSg4GZ0sTOAf2k8FwGbm3HQepAoeMmMNt0i5K9LUwtC7jdLWSD/dWZp+R6C0rB0 Nx+Pa/udg6XIslSc9CNo8sI5/UUJjqm1uCw2mqkwz0SnWxaAAgxxdCO2i0tpLCJR2U6q X/HdlLDmEYeQtxgYJpB2dLIceeuv6rK4ThRA1nl0a6HN+IAoIorF/odt24zCJQZtBH/K Jwww== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5308vsIcqid3CeA1X5ETxZCos2Jrj+zoFLXxpdTOMcyDZQNsmoXM F3U8TWYPm/KQDAmd0KTD9pED1LsU8afaBaN9HoM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwmF913TW7uBicS5IcGbV6ydHaNxZXD4hxgrp3gfJHWvsQs2R/Hq38v/JPdprz23J8pDma9sW0FOmLJ7QF4dHc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:51c7:b0:419:2bd7:efa4 with SMTP id r7-20020a05640251c700b004192bd7efa4mr16656019edd.135.1648478953298; Mon, 28 Mar 2022 07:49:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <66A20135-5437-43E4-9F74-AE1D1FDB3A59@gmail.com> <02E8D61E-D96B-4520-A781-4EB43014BFB8@gmail.com> <66F981E1-05BB-4B4D-8DE4-006023094F15@akamai.com> <24a7328bd1814769a6f47ae00f682be3@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> <16dae1e5137a48079d976bcb93185925@EX13D01ANC003.ant.amazon.com> In-Reply-To: From: Christine Cloostermans Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2022 16:49:02 +0200 Message-ID: To: Mike Prorock Cc: Rebecca Guthrie , "saag@ietf.org" , "Kampanakis, Panos" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006e645505db486aa8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2022 14:49:35 -0000 --0000000000006e645505db486aa8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I am unsure whether the WG makes sense unless there are specific uncovered work items, but I do think it makes sense to have a platform where such work items can be identified. Since PQC is a topic that will touch so many areas, I think it makes sense if there is a place to zoom out and look at the big picture for missing items. In this regard, the wiki is a very good and useful initiative, and I think a mailing list where discussion can be held, like whether work is being done in a certain area, which WG would be a natural home, whether the wiki needs to be updated, and whether there are work items uncovered by another workgroup, might be a good solution as well. Then if the latter in this list is the case, then a WG can still be discussed at that time? Just my two cents, cheers, Christine Cloostermans Op ma 28 mrt. 2022 om 14:19 schreef Mike Prorock : > +1 Rebecca - add to list on the wiki > Mailing list on PQC could be helpful as there are topics that cross WGs. > > Panos, > I do think there are items that will arise (or that are arising) that > might ot cleanly fit into one of the existing WGs which I believe you > were referring to and finding a home and an approach will likely be neede= d. > > Mike Prorock > CTO, Founder > https://mesur.io/ > > > > On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 6:05 PM Rebecca Guthrie 40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Hi Panos, >> >> >> >> Yes, I agree that the drafts do all belong to those respective working >> groups. To clarify, I only meant to suggest that these drafts be added t= o >> the list of PQ work in IETF at >> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility, not that these become >> work items for the PQ WG. >> >> >> >> Rebecca >> >> >> >> *From:* saag *On Behalf Of * Kampanakis, Panos >> *Sent:* Friday, March 25, 2022 11:47 PM >> *To:* Mike Prorock ; Rebecca Guthrie > 40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> >> *Cc:* saag@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" >> >> >> >> Hi Mike, Rebecca, >> >> >> >> As much I would like for this new WG to be formed, I am of the opinion >> that if these two work items have a good existing WG, they should be wor= ked >> there. >> >> >> >> To me, it seems that draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth belongs to >> IPSECME, draft-becker-guthrie-cert-binding-for-multi-auth belongs to >> LAMPS, draft-becker-guthrie-noncomposite-hybrid-auth >> >> belongs to TLS or LAMPS, draft-uni-qsckeys-00 >> >> belongs to LAMPS and draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures belongs = to >> COSE. It is always better to bring drafts to their corresponding areas o= f >> expertise if it exists as that would guarantee the quality of a draft. >> >> >> >> Personally, I think the new PQ WG should focus on areas whose WGs have >> concluded and are currently orphan from an IETF WG. >> >> >> >> Rgs, >> >> Panos >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* saag *On Behalf Of *Mike Prorock >> *Sent:* Friday, March 25, 2022 9:08 AM >> *To:* Rebecca Guthrie >> *Cc:* saag@ietf.org >> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ >> Maintenance WG" >> >> >> >> *CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do >> not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender an= d >> know the content is safe. >> >> >> >> Email crossed - yes, thank you Rebecca - we are actively working on the >> PQC Signature side of things with some great support from a variety of >> parties. Getting a defined list as this is an evolving space would be >> great. >> >> >> Mike Prorock >> >> CTO, Founder >> >> https://mesur.io/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 7:19 AM Rebecca Guthrie > 40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Roman, >> >> Thank you for keeping track of the PQ work in IETF (and thanks to Panos >> for reviving this topic)! Is the PQ activity list something that others = are >> able to update? There is a draft, JSON Encoding for PQ Signatures >> (draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00), and another newly-uploa= ded >> draft, draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth, that can be added to the >> list. >> >> Also- though it is still being worked out which protocols are in the >> scope of the proposed PQ Agility WG charter, could it be helpful to >> establish a separate mail-list, as a place to begin these conversations? >> >> Rebecca >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM >> To: Kampanakis, Panos ; saag@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" >> >> Hi Panos! >> >> No updates. While there is concrete charter text describing the >> mechanics of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't descri= be >> what protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work. Progress= is >> blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what >> protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address = it). >> >> Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf). I've been >> trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at >> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac= .ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fsec%2Fwiki%2FPQCAgility&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40u= we.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33= e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw= MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DAoUcD= 0vWmShCxinFoJRzqq8Mr5z9aIAycqchpMKiIj4%3D&reserved=3D0 >> >> . >> >> Regards, >> Roman >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Kampanakis, Panos >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM >> > To: saag@ietf.org >> > Cc: Roman Danyliw ; Benjamin Kaduk >> > Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" >> > >> > Hi Roman, Ben, >> > >> > Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back. >> > >> > Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by >> > IETF- 113? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Panos >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: saag On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J. >> > (GRC- >> > LCN0) >> > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM >> > To: saag@ietf.org >> > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft text >> > for a PQ Maintenance WG" >> > >> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do >> > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender >> > and know the content is safe. >> > >> > >> > >> > Hi >> > >> > I think the charter looks fine. >> > >> > Thanks >> > Chuck >> > >> > Charles J. Sheehe III >> > Computer Engineer >> > Secure Networks, System >> > Integration and Test Branch (LCN) >> > Glenn Research Center >> > 21000 Brookpark Rd >> > Cleveland, OH 44135 >> > Charles.J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email >> > Charles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail >> > Office: 216-433-5179 >> > It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how >> > the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done >> them better. >> > >> > The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose >> > face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who >> > errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort >> > without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the >> > deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends >> > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the >> > triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at >> > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be wit= h >> those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. >> > Theodore Roosevelt >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: saag On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM >> > To: Kampanakis, Panos ; Salz, Rich >> > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; >> > saag@ietf.org >> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ >> > Maintenance WG" >> > >> > Hi! >> > >> > >> > >> > We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short hand to >> > characterize this potential body of work. The intent was what Panos >> > described >> > - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF protocol >> > to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms. >> > >> > >> > >> > The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the >> > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym]) >> > is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols, >> > registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic >> mechanisms." >> > (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fg= it >> > hub.com >> >> %2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-charter.m >> > d&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov >> >> %7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0 >> > cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C63783633799591358 >> > 4%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 >> > Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DqmZgx%2BJWwcrKtqD7fwcL2lK43U= Qa >> > 5K0dPkZYl0n2ZGo%3D&reserved=3D0 >> > < >> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgith= ub. >> > com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm- >> > charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov >> >> %7Cd092f22f99e >> > c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7 >> > C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w >> > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat >> > a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved >> > =3D0> ). I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the header of the templat= ed >> > charter. It now reads "PQC Agility WG". The term didn't appear in >> > the charter text itself. However, to eliminate all possible c >> > onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol >> maintenance/protocol changes/. >> > >> > >> > >> > Roman >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Kampanakis, Panos >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM >> > To: Salz, Rich ; Roman Danyliw >> > ; Benjamin Kaduk ; saag@ietf.org >> > Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG" >> > >> > >> > >> > Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for >> > orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448. >> > >> > >> > >> > From: saag > On >> > Behalf Of Salz, Rich >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM >> > To: Ludovic Perret > > >; Roman Danyliw >> > >; Benjamin Kaduk > > >; saag@ietf.org >> > Cc: Kampanakis, Panos > > > >> > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ >> > Maintenance WG" >> > >> > >> > >> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do >> > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender >> > and know the content is safe. >> > >> > >> > >> > I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > saag mailing list >> > saag@ietf.org >> > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww= w. >> > ietf.org >> >> %2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe. >> > nsa.gov >> >> %7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff >> > 33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM >> > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&s >> > data=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved= =3D0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> saag mailing list >> saag@ietf.org >> >> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.= ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa= .gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%= 7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC= JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DTjuCPc2ZfiB= T39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&reserved=3D0 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> saag mailing list >> saag@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> saag mailing list >> saag@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag >> > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > --0000000000006e645505db486aa8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

I am unsure whether the WG make= s sense unless there are specific uncovered work items, but I do think it m= akes sense to have a platform where such work items can be identified.
Since PQC is a topic that will touch so many areas, I think it makes = sense if there is a place to zoom out and look at the big picture for missi= ng items.

In this regard, the wiki is a very good = and useful initiative, and I think a mailing list where discussion can be h= eld, like whether work is being done in a certain area, which WG would be a= natural home, whether the wiki needs to be updated, and whether there are = work items uncovered by another workgroup, might be a good solution as well= .
Then if the latter in this list is the case, then a WG can stil= l be discussed at that time?

Just my two cents, ch= eers,

Christine Cloostermans

Op ma 28 mrt. 20= 22 om 14:19 schreef Mike Prorock <m= prorock@mesur.io>:
+1 Rebecca - add to list on the wiki
Mailin= g list on PQC could be helpful as there are topics that cross WGs.

Panos,
I do think there are items that will aris= e (or that are arising) that might ot cleanly fit into one of the existing= =C2=A0WGs which I believe you were=C2=A0referring to and finding a home and= an approach will likely be needed.

Mike Prorock
CTO, Founder


On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 6:05 PM Rebecca= Guthrie <rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Panos,

=C2=A0

Yes, I agree that the drafts do all belong to those = respective working groups. To clarify, I only meant to suggest that these d= rafts be added to the list of PQ work in IETF at https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility, not that these become= work items for the PQ WG.

=C2=A0

Rebecca

=C2=A0

From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Kampanakis, Panos
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 11:47 PM
To: Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>; Rebecca Guthrie <rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc= .ietf.org>
Cc: saag@ietf.org=
Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance = WG"

=C2=A0

Hi Mike, Rebecca,

=C2=A0

As much I would like for this new WG to be formed, I= am of the opinion that if these two work items have a good existing WG, th= ey should be worked there.

=C2=A0

To me, it seems that draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hyb= rid-auth belongs to IPSECME, draft-becker-guthrie-cert-binding-for-multi-auth belongs to= LAMPS, draft-becker-guthrie-noncomposite-hybrid-auth =C2=A0belongs to TLS or L= AMPS, draft-uni-qsckeys-00 belongs to LAMPS and draft-prorock-cose-post-quant= um-signatures belongs to COSE. It is always better to bring drafts to their= corresponding areas of expertise if it exists as that would guarantee the = quality of a draft.

=C2=A0

Personally, I think the new PQ WG should focus on ar= eas whose WGs have concluded and are currently orphan from an IETF WG.

=C2=A0

Rgs,

Panos

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mike Prorock
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 9:08 AM
To: Rebecca Guthrie <rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org&= gt;
Cc: saag@ietf.org=
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ M= aintenance WG"

=C2=A0

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the orga= nization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Email crossed - yes, thank you Rebecca - we are acti= vely working on the PQC Signature side of things with some great support fr= om a variety of parties.=C2=A0 Getting a defined list as this is an evolvin= g space would be great.


Mike Prorock

CTO, Founder

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 7:19 AM Rebecca Guthrie <= rmguthr=3D40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Roman,

Thank you for keeping track of the PQ work in IETF (and thanks to Panos for= reviving this topic)! Is the PQ activity list something that others are ab= le to update? There is a draft, JSON Encoding for PQ Signatures (draft-pror= ock-cose-post-quantum-signatures-00), and another newly-uploaded draft, draft-guthrie-ipsecme-ikev2-hybrid-auth,= that can be added to the list.

Also- though it is still being worked out which protocols are in the scope = of the proposed PQ Agility WG charter, could it be helpful to establish a s= eparate mail-list, as a place to begin these conversations?

Rebecca

-----Original Message-----
From: saag <s= aag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM
To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>; saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG"= ;

Hi Panos!

No updates.=C2=A0 While there is concrete charter text describing the mecha= nics of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe w= hat protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work.=C2=A0 Progres= s is blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have a= n existing WG to address it).

Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf).=C2=A0 I've b= een trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ie= tf.org%2Ftrac%2Fsec%2Fwiki%2FPQCAgility&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40= uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff3= 3e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA= wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3D= AoUcD0vWmShCxinFoJRzqq8Mr5z9aIAycqchpMKiIj4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0.
Regards,
Roman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Cc: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenanc= e WG"
>
> Hi Roman, Ben,
>
> Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back.
>
> Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by=
> IETF- 113?
>
> Thanks,
> Panos
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J.
> (GRC-
> LCN0)
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft te= xt
> for a PQ Maintenance WG"
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender =
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I think the charter looks fine.
>
> Thanks
> Chuck
>
> Charles J. Sheehe III
> Computer Engineer
> Secure Networks, System
> Integration and Test Branch (LCN)
> Glenn Research Center
> 21000 Brookpark Rd
> Cleveland, OH 44135
> Charles= .J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email
> Cha= rles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail
> Office: 216-433-5179
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is not the critic who counts; not the man who p= oints out how
> the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done th= em better.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The credit belongs to the man who is actually in th= e arena, whose
> face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who=
> errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort
> without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the =
> deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends > himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the
> triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at > least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be wit= h those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
> Theodore Roosevelt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM
> To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>; Salz, Rich
> <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>;
> saag@ietf.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG"
>
> Hi!
>
>
>
> We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" sh= ort hand to
> characterize this potential body of work.=C2=A0 The intent was what Pa= nos
> described
> - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF = protocol
> to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms.
>
>
>
> The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the <= br> > intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acron= ym])
> is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols,
> registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanism= s."
> (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook= .com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgit
> hub.com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-charter.m<= br> > d&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%40uwe.nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0 > cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C63783633799591358=
> 4%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6=
> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DqmZgx%2BJWwcrKtqD7fwcL2l= K43UQa
> 5K0dPkZYl0n2ZGo%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.o= utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
> com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-
> charter.md&data=3D04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e
> c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7
> C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat=
> a=3DmJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved
> =3D0> ).=C2=A0 I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the= header of the templated
> charter.=C2=A0 It now reads "PQC Agility WG".=C2=A0 The term= didn't appear in
> the charter text itself.=C2=A0 However, to eliminate all possible c=C2= =A0
> onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol maintena= nce/protocol changes/.
>
>
>
> Roman
>
>
>
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM
> To: Salz, Rich <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Roman Danyliw
> <rdd@cert.org= >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>; saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG= "
>
>
>
> Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for=
> orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448.<= br> >
>
>
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:saag-bounces@ietf.org> > On
> Behalf Of Salz, Rich
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM
> To: Ludovic Perret <ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com
> <mailto:ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com> >; Roman= Danyliw
> <rdd@cert.org= <mailto:rdd@cert.org<= /a>> >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu
> <mailto:kaduk@mi= t.edu> >; saag@ietf.org <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
> Cc: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos=3D40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org
> <mailto:kpanos=3D40amazon.com= @dmarc.ietf.org> >
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ > Maintenance WG"
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender =
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> saag mailing list
> saag@ietf.org > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= .
> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsaag&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Crmguthr%4= 0uwe.
> nsa.gov%7C654932872ddc4f843f7808da0cc51cae%7Cd61e9a6ffc164f848a3e6eeff<= br> > 33e136b%7C0%7C0%7C637836337995913584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM=
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&a= mp;s
> data=3DTjuCPc2ZfiBT39IBiWwjaalTum%2BdDTf8cdHV%2FQo4pN0%3D&amp;rese= rved=3D0

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