From Martin.Stiemerling@neclab.eu Mon Oct 1 01:57:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sami@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sami@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A00621F8602 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 01:57:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.212, BAYES_00=-2.599, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NkP41CVg1tTG for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 01:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu (mailer1.neclab.eu [195.37.70.40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3027521F84E2 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 01:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 602721001AD; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:57:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (netlab.nec.de) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas-a.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JBaVm-2zK6Lf; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:57:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ENCELADUS.office.hd (enceladus.office.hd [192.168.24.52]) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462361001BA; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:57:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.1.1.190] (10.1.1.190) by skoll.office.hd (192.168.125.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:57:19 +0200 Message-ID: <50695AEF.1000806@neclab.eu> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:57:19 +0200 From: Martin Stiemerling User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120912 Thunderbird/15.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sami@ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [10.1.1.190] Cc: "Guyingjie \(Yingjie\)" Subject: Re: [sami] SAMI BoF is rejected. X-BeenThere: sami@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: State Migration List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 08:57:37 -0000 I am not sure that everybody is aware of the updated sami framework draft: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-gu-statemigration-framework-02.txt and also the BoF description: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki#Transport Probably good to read. Martin On 09/29/2012 03:19 AM, Guyingjie (Yingjie) wrote: > I am sorry to say that SAMI BoF is rejected by ADs, and the following are the reasons that ADs give to us and my replies to ADs. I think it's better to let the mail list know of the discussion. > > Besides, as suggested by ADs, Melinda has made a brief research on BEHAVE, and I talked with an author of draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync, we think SAMI and BEHAVE has significant difference. The work in BEHAVE is working in Large scale network and Carrier Grade Network, to sync the state between a pair of redundant NATs for High availability reason. While SAMI is working in VM Live migration scenario in DC, and the state is supposed to be transferred between any two middleboxes with same functions, e.g. FWs, who are not supposed to be HA pairs. > > > Please send any of your comments to the mail list. > > Though we are rejected for a BoF, but ADs offer a presentation slot at TSVAREA. Hope to see you there. > > > > Best Regards > Gu Yingjie > > -----邮件原件----- > 发件人: Guyingjie (Yingjie) > 发送时间: 2012年9月28日 乐乐13:47 > 收件人: 'Martin Stiemerling' > 抄送: 'Wesley Eddy'; Benson Schliesser; Melinda Shore > 主题: 答复: State Migration BoF proposal for Altanta Meeting. > > Martin, > > Yes, we would like to present at TSVAREA and try to answer some of your questions. And thank you for this offer. > > As short answer to you questions: > 1. State Migration is more than NAT, and in our drafts and discussion in mail list, we focus on Firewall. And the state migration for Firewall and NAT has significant difference I believe. > > 2. Many operators and vendors show there interest, including Verizon, China Telecom, China Mobile, EMC, HP, Ruijie and etc. Huawei itself is a vendor of Middlebox, e.g. Firewall, so does Ruijie and other main network device vendors, like Cisco. So I think the vendors can definitely represents a part of middlebox vendors. Of course, we will still try to get more opinions from other dedicated middlebox vendors. Just that they are not very active and interested in attending SDOs. > > 3. Yes, I agree that SAMI has been silent for a while. But that has a reason. If you go through the email archive, you will find that we have a lot of discussion. Subscribers do pay a lot of attention and enthusiasm in State Migration discussion at the very beginning. But since we don't have a solid place to work on it, i.e. a WG, the mail list topic is restricted to whether the problem exist and it's easy to get to a discussion bottleneck after everyone argue with their own background. Unlike some other BoF mail list which may be established just before BoF request so the mail list show a good activity, SAMI mail list may be silent for now, but it does include very good nutrition. The mail list just need a new trigger, e.g. if we can go a little deeper into use case or even technical discussion, but this is not appropriate before a WG is designated. > > > > > > Best Regards > Gu Yingjie > > > -----邮件原件----- > 发件人: Martin Stiemerling [mailto:martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu] > 发送时间: 2012年9月27日 乐乐18:11 > 收件人: Guyingjie (Yingjie) > 抄送: 'Wesley Eddy'; Benson Schliesser; Melinda Shore > 主题: Re: State Migration BoF proposal for Altanta Meeting. > > Yingjie, all, > > The State Migration BOF was not approved, as you have already seen. > > However, we invited you to present the proposal at the TSVAREA meeting > at the coming IETF meeting in Atlanta. Let us know until Oct 4th, if you > accept this or not. > > Now to the points that have to be answered before this can be a BoF: > - The migration of middlebox state was discussed a while back in the > BEHAVE WG and it pushed back there. Please check the details below > marked as Dave Thaler's hints. > - It is not clear if there is any interest of middlebox vendors to have > a standardized protocol to transfer state. The main reason is that the > state of each vendor's implementation is so different from any other > vendor that it can be impossible to reach a standard way of exchanging > this information. > - The sami mailing list is dead since several weeks. It is necessary to > discuss the **current** proposal there, in order to show if there is > community interest, and also to elaborate the above details. > > Dave Thaler's hint to the BEHAVE WG: > ****************************************************************** > For example, in IETF 77 proceedings you can see the discussion of > draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync (and to a lesser extent > draft-xu-behave-stateful-nat-standby). > > Long behave WG thread starting with > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/behave/current/msg07424.html > contains most of the main arguments. > > In terms of who proposers were, the drafts that had a similar flavor of > interactions between middleboxes in the same network: > draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync (the main one mentioned above) > draft-xu-behave-lsn-standby > draft-li-behave-dns64-load-balancing > draft-chen-behave-olnat > draft-chen-behave-rsnat > draft-wang-behave-nat64-load-balancer > draft-zhang-behave-nat64-load-balancing > ****************************************************************** > > Regards, > > Martin > > On 09/24/2012 03:09 AM, Guyingjie (Yingjie) wrote: >> Hi Martin and Wes, >> >> The attached is the BoF proposal about State Migration for IETF85 at >> Atlanta. Please let us know if there is anything else we should clarify >> or provide. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Best Regards >> Gu Yingjie >> > -- IETF Transport Area Director martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL Registered in England 283 From guyingjie@huawei.com Thu Oct 25 00:27:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sami@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sami@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82EB521F8432 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:27:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BG-dGJZ1WXun for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FAE921F8428 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AKX74352; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:27:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:27:04 +0100 Received: from SZXEML443-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.181) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:27:11 +0100 Received: from SZXEML511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.192]) by SZXEML443-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.181]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:27:07 +0800 From: "Guyingjie (Yingjie)" To: "sami@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: SAMI time slot in IETF 85. Thread-Index: Ac2ygi6LDQUYUOIiSJ6izkbCQ1LKSg== Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:27:06 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.122.34] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A27496C192613C44A82D819E1B98DB573406F3C3SZXEML511MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: [sami] SAMI time slot in IETF 85. X-BeenThere: sami@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: State Migration List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:27:51 -0000 --_000_A27496C192613C44A82D819E1B98DB573406F3C3SZXEML511MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, The State Migration topic has be assigned a 50mins slot in TSVArea wg, whic= h is at Monday, 5/11. The following is the agenda of TSVArea wg. If you are interested to know th= e latest status and progress of State Migration, please attend the TSVA wg = session. Thank you all. - Administrative (10 minutes) - Note Well - Agenda bashing - Area Status - Large Scale Performance Measurement (LMAP) -- 50 minutes Presenter: tbd Mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap Internet-Draft: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schulzrinne-lmap-requirements/ Other reading: http://www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband-america/2012/july - State Migration (sami) -- 50 minutes Presenter: tbd Mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sami Internet-Draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-statemigration-framework-02 ________________________________ Best Regards Gu Yingjie --_000_A27496C192613C44A82D819E1B98DB573406F3C3SZXEML511MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

The State Migra= tion topic has be assigned a 50mins slot in TSVArea wg, which is at Monday,= 5/11.

The following i= s the agenda of TSVArea wg. If you are interested to know the latest status= and progress of State Migration, please attend the TSVA wg session. Thank you all.

 

- Administrative (10 minutes)

- Note Well

- Agenda bashing

- Area Status

 

-  Large Scale Performance Measurement (LMAP) -- 50 minutes

Presenter: tbd

Mailing list:

  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lmap

Internet-Draft:

   http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schulzrinne-lmap-req= uirements/

  Other reading:

   http://www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband-america/2012/july

 

- State Migration (sami) -- 50 minutes

Presenter: tbd

Mailing list:

  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sami

Internet-Draft:

  http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-statemigration-framework-02

 

 

Best Regards Gu Yingjie

 

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