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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:28:16 +0000
From: Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
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Thread-topic: Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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Subject: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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From: Kelly Grizzle <kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com>
To: Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>, SCIM WG <scim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:07:19 +0000
From: Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
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From: Kelly Grizzle <kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com>
To: Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>, SCIM WG <scim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:38:31 +0000
From: Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
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From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
In-Reply-To: <BN1PR04MB392247FE2E9878E6468DCDDE27F0@BN1PR04MB392.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 09:41:31 -0700
Message-Id: <88E432CB-B735-4673-A737-38A3C2FA24C1@oracle.com>
References: <3FBCDECF-424B-4C8D-AE4F-7C2BADEC91F2@wisc.edu> <BN1PR04MB39292911CB883FC04ADB06BE27F0@BN1PR04MB392.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> <79955440-1957-492D-B815-54E5FC3B228C@wisc.edu> <BN1PR04MB392247FE2E9878E6468DCDDE27F0@BN1PR04MB392.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
To: Kelly Grizzle <kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com>
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/scim/PnUZpmcH3mumzS_SlbA800EUDyI>
Cc: SCIM WG <scim@ietf.org>, Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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Keith,

Sorry for the late response.  Just got back from my off-the-grid =
holiday.  :-)

The example below (from Kelly) would likely not parse reliably as some =
parsers might only return the last or first instance.  The idea is to =
place all extension attributes together in a JSON =E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D =
which is a JSON attribute holding the name of the schema extension URI =
(as per the examples).

BAD:
> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },
> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },

Good:
{
  "schemas":
    [ "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:core:2.0:User",
      "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User"],
  "id": "2819c223-7f76-453a-919d-413861904646",
  "externalId": "701984",
  "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
  "name": {
    "formatted": "Ms. Barbara J Jensen III",
    "familyName": "Jensen",
    "givenName": "Barbara",
    "middleName": "Jane",
    "honorificPrefix": "Ms.",
    "honorificSuffix": "III"
  },
  "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
  "nickName": "Babs",

  =E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D: {
     "employeeNumber": "701984",
     =E2=80=9CcostCenter": "4130",
     "organization": "Universal Studios",
     "division": "Theme Park",
    "department": "Tour Operations",
    "manager": {
       "value": "26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
       "$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
       "displayName": "John Smith"
     }
  }
...
}

=E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D could be any extension URN you =
define.  Thus if you define attributes of same name as =
urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D, =
then there is no collision.

In this sense, every attribute is prefixed with its own schema.  We do =
not have to worry about attribute name collisions since the base object =
and each extension have their own position in the json structure.

You will also notice that when referring to those attributes, you use =
the schema uri plus the attribute extension name together.  Eg.

filter=3Durn:enterprise:2.0:User:organization eq =E2=80=9CUniversal =
Studio"

At the time we wrote this specification, there was still a tremendous =
pushback in the JSON community on having any schema at all.  As a =
result, we adopted a very =E2=80=9Cloose=E2=80=9D model that focuses on =
letting a parser know what attributes may be present in a JSON object =
that also avoids naming conflicts.

Hopefully this helps.

Thanks for the comments!

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

> On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Grizzle =
<kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hmmm =E2=80=A6 I don=E2=80=99t think the docs are quite so clear on =
that one.  In JSON, ordering does not matter, so it doesn=E2=80=99t =
matter if it is interleaved with other attributes or not.  However, JSON =
also does not allow multiple keys with the same name.  In other words, =
this will not work:
> =20
> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },
> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },
> ...
> =20
> =20
> From: scim [mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Keith Hazelton
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:07 PM
> To: SCIM WG
> Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema =
extensions
> =20
> Kelly,
> =20
> Thanks for your quick response.
> =20
> So does 'the sub-attribute must be named using the schema extension =
URI=E2=80=9D mean that all the enterprise user attributes have to appear =
together in a uri-container as indicated in draft-22, Figure 5: Example =
Enterprise User JSON Representation:
> =20
> =E2=80=A6
>  "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": {
>     "employeeNumber": "701984",
>     "costCenter": "4130",
>     "organization": "Universal Studios",
>     "division": "Theme Park",
>     "department": "Tour Operations",
>     "manager": {
>       "value": "26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>       "$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>       "displayName": "John Smith"
>     }
>   },
> =E2=80=A6
>=20
>  Or could the extended attributes be interleaved with the User schema =
attributes by putting each one in that form, e.g.,
>=20
>  =E2=80=A6
> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984",},
> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
> =E2=80=A6
> --=20
> email & jabber: keith.hazelton@wisc.edu =
<mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
> calendar: http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0 <http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0>
> =20
> From: Kelly Grizzle
> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 11:48=20
> To: Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG
> Subject: RE: Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
> =20
> named using th
> _______________________________________________
> scim mailing list
> scim@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim


--Apple-Mail=_7EFBFE28-73ED-4017-830B-4813947ED9CA
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Keith,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>Sorry for the late response. &nbsp;Just got back from =
my off-the-grid holiday. &nbsp;:-)<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The example below (from Kelly) would =
likely not parse reliably as some parsers might only return the last or =
first instance. &nbsp;The idea is to place all extension attributes =
together in a JSON =E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D which is a JSON attribute =
holding the name of the schema extension URI (as per the =
examples).</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">BAD:</div><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1"><pre class=3D"" =
style=3D"page-break-before: always;">"userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: always; widows: =
1;">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre class=3D"" =
style=3D"page-break-before: always;">"displayName": "Babs Jensen",<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: =
always;">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },</pre></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D"">Good:</div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">{</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "schemas":</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; [ =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:core:2.0:User",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User"],</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "id": =
"2819c223-7f76-453a-919d-413861904646",</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "externalId": =
"701984",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "name": =
{</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "formatted": "Ms. Barbara J Jensen =
III",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "familyName": "Jensen",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "givenName": "Barbara",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "middleName": "Jane",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "honorificPrefix": "Ms.",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "honorificSuffix": "III"</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; },</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "nickName": "Babs",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
=E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D: {</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"employeeNumber": "701984",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=E2=80=9CcostCenter": "4130",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"organization": "Universal =
Studios",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"division": "Theme =
Park",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "department": "Tour =
Operations",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "manager": {</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"value": =
"26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;"$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"displayName": "John =
Smith"</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;}</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; }</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">...</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">}</div></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D=
 could be any extension URN you define. &nbsp;Thus if you define =
attributes of same name as&nbsp;<font face=3D"Courier New" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">, then there is no =
collision.</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier New" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font></div><div class=3D"">In this sense, every =
attribute is prefixed with its own schema. &nbsp;We do not have to worry =
about attribute name collisions since the base object and each extension =
have their own position in the json structure.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">You will also notice that when =
referring to those attributes, you use the schema uri plus the attribute =
extension name together. &nbsp;Eg.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">filter=3Durn:enterprise:2.0:User:organization eq =E2=80=9CUnive=
rsal Studio"</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">At =
the time we wrote this specification, there was still a tremendous =
pushback in the JSON community on having any schema at all. &nbsp;As a =
result, we adopted a very =E2=80=9Cloose=E2=80=9D model that focuses on =
letting a parser know what attributes may be present in a JSON object =
that also avoids naming conflicts.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Hopefully this helps.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks for the =
comments!</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Phil</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">@independentid</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.independentid.com" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div></div></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div></span></div></span></div></span>=
</div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Grizzle &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com" =
class=3D"">kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D"">
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)" =
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">Hmmm =E2=80=A6 I don=E2=80=99t think =
the docs are quite so clear on that one.&nbsp; In JSON, ordering does =
not matter, so it doesn=E2=80=99t matter if it is interleaved with other =
attributes
 or not.&nbsp; However, JSON also does not allow multiple keys with the =
same name.&nbsp; In other words, this will not work:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">...<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;" class=3D""> scim [<a href=3D"mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b class=3D"">On Behalf Of </b>Keith Hazelton<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:07 PM<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes =
from schema extensions<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Kelly,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thanks for your quick =
response.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" =
class=3D"">So does '</span>the sub-attribute must be named using the =
schema extension URI=E2=80=9D mean that all the enterprise user =
attributes have to appear together in a uri-container as indicated in =
draft-22,
 Figure 5: Example Enterprise User JSON Representation:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=A6<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>=

</div>
<div class=3D"">
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D""> =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": {<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"employeeNumber": "701984",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"costCenter": "4130",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"organization": "Universal Studios",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"division": "Theme Park",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"department": "Tour Operations",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"manager": {<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "value": =
"26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "$ref": =
"../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "displayName": "John =
Smith"<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
}<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp; },<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><br clear=3D"all" =
style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">
</span>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">Or could =
the extended attributes be interleaved with the User schema attributes =
by putting each one in that form, e.g.,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><br clear=3D"all" =
style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">
</span>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">"userName": =
"<a href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984",},<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_SIGNATURE" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#888888" class=3D"">--&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>=

</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#888888" class=3D"">email &amp; jabber:
<a href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"il">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</span></a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#888888" class=3D"">calendar:
<a href=3D"http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Kelly Grizzle<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Date: </b>Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 11:48 <br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To: </b>Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject: </b>RE: Question on the use of attributes from =
schema extensions<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">named using th</span>
<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">scim =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">scim@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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	charset=utf-8

Ooops=E2=80=A6  in my =E2=80=9Cgood=E2=80=9D example below, I forgot to =
make the schemas value =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User" consistent =
with the schema bag "urn:enterprise:2.0:User"

apologies for any confusion.

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

> On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:41 AM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>=20
> Keith,
>=20
> Sorry for the late response.  Just got back from my off-the-grid =
holiday.  :-)
>=20
> The example below (from Kelly) would likely not parse reliably as some =
parsers might only return the last or first instance.  The idea is to =
place all extension attributes together in a JSON =E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D =
which is a JSON attribute holding the name of the schema extension URI =
(as per the examples).
>=20
> BAD:
>> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },
>> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },
>=20
> Good:
> {
>   "schemas":
>     [ "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:core:2.0:User",
>       "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User"],
>   "id": "2819c223-7f76-453a-919d-413861904646",
>   "externalId": "701984",
>   "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>   "name": {
>     "formatted": "Ms. Barbara J Jensen III",
>     "familyName": "Jensen",
>     "givenName": "Barbara",
>     "middleName": "Jane",
>     "honorificPrefix": "Ms.",
>     "honorificSuffix": "III"
>   },
>   "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>   "nickName": "Babs",
>=20
>   =E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D: {
>      "employeeNumber": "701984",
>      =E2=80=9CcostCenter": "4130",
>      "organization": "Universal Studios",
>      "division": "Theme Park",
>     "department": "Tour Operations",
>     "manager": {
>        "value": "26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>        "$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>        "displayName": "John Smith"
>      }
>   }
> ...
> }
>=20
> =E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D could be any extension URN =
you define.  Thus if you define attributes of same name as =
urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D, =
then there is no collision.
>=20
> In this sense, every attribute is prefixed with its own schema.  We do =
not have to worry about attribute name collisions since the base object =
and each extension have their own position in the json structure.
>=20
> You will also notice that when referring to those attributes, you use =
the schema uri plus the attribute extension name together.  Eg.
>=20
> filter=3Durn:enterprise:2.0:User:organization eq =E2=80=9CUniversal =
Studio"
>=20
> At the time we wrote this specification, there was still a tremendous =
pushback in the JSON community on having any schema at all.  As a =
result, we adopted a very =E2=80=9Cloose=E2=80=9D model that focuses on =
letting a parser know what attributes may be present in a JSON object =
that also avoids naming conflicts.
>=20
> Hopefully this helps.
>=20
> Thanks for the comments!
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com =
<http://www.independentid.com/>phil.hunt@oracle.com =
<mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>
>> On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Grizzle =
<kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com <mailto:kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com>> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> Hmmm =E2=80=A6 I don=E2=80=99t think the docs are quite so clear on =
that one.  In JSON, ordering does not matter, so it doesn=E2=80=99t =
matter if it is interleaved with other attributes or not.  However, JSON =
also does not allow multiple keys with the same name.  In other words, =
this will not work:
>> =20
>> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },
>> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },
>> ...
>> =20
>> =20
>> From: scim [mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Keith Hazelton
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:07 PM
>> To: SCIM WG
>> Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema =
extensions
>> =20
>> Kelly,
>> =20
>> Thanks for your quick response.
>> =20
>> So does 'the sub-attribute must be named using the schema extension =
URI=E2=80=9D mean that all the enterprise user attributes have to appear =
together in a uri-container as indicated in draft-22, Figure 5: Example =
Enterprise User JSON Representation:
>> =20
>> =E2=80=A6
>>  "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": {
>>     "employeeNumber": "701984",
>>     "costCenter": "4130",
>>     "organization": "Universal Studios",
>>     "division": "Theme Park",
>>     "department": "Tour Operations",
>>     "manager": {
>>       "value": "26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>       "$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>       "displayName": "John Smith"
>>     }
>>   },
>> =E2=80=A6
>>=20
>>  Or could the extended attributes be interleaved with the User schema =
attributes by putting each one in that form, e.g.,
>>=20
>>  =E2=80=A6
>> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984",},
>> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>> =E2=80=A6
>> --=20
>> email & jabber: keith.hazelton@wisc.edu =
<mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
>> calendar: http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0 <http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0>
>> =20
>> From: Kelly Grizzle
>> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 11:48=20
>> To: Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG
>> Subject: RE: Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
>> =20
>> named using th
>> _______________________________________________
>> scim mailing list
>> scim@ietf.org <mailto:scim@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_1358D347-2E6B-4C04-8BC4-295C0EEEDA21
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Ooops=E2=80=A6 &nbsp;in my =E2=80=9Cgood=E2=80=9D example =
below, I forgot to make the schemas value "<span style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User" =
consistent with the schema bag "</span><span style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">urn:enterprise:2.0:User"</span><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">apologies =
for any confusion.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Phil</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">@independentid</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.independentid.com" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div></div></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div></span></div></span></div></span>=
</div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:41 AM, Phil Hunt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Keith,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Sorry for =
the late response. &nbsp;Just got back from my off-the-grid holiday. =
&nbsp;:-)<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
example below (from Kelly) would likely not parse reliably as some =
parsers might only return the last or first instance. &nbsp;The idea is =
to place all extension attributes together in a JSON =E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D=
 which is a JSON attribute holding the name of the schema extension URI =
(as per the examples).</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">BAD:</div><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1"><pre class=3D"" =
style=3D"page-break-before: always;">"userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: always; widows: =
1;">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre class=3D"" =
style=3D"page-break-before: always;">"displayName": "Babs Jensen",<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: =
always;">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },</pre></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D"">Good:</div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">{</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "schemas":</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; [ =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:core:2.0:User",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User"],</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "id": =
"2819c223-7f76-453a-919d-413861904646",</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "externalId": =
"701984",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "name": =
{</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "formatted": "Ms. Barbara J Jensen =
III",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "familyName": "Jensen",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "givenName": "Barbara",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "middleName": "Jane",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "honorificPrefix": "Ms.",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "honorificSuffix": "III"</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; },</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "nickName": "Babs",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
=E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D: {</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"employeeNumber": "701984",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=E2=80=9CcostCenter": "4130",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"organization": "Universal =
Studios",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"division": "Theme =
Park",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "department": "Tour =
Operations",</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "manager": {</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"value": =
"26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;"$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"displayName": "John =
Smith"</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;}</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; }</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">...</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">}</div></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D=
 could be any extension URN you define. &nbsp;Thus if you define =
attributes of same name as&nbsp;<font face=3D"Courier New" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">, then there is no =
collision.</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier New" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font></div><div class=3D"">In this sense, every =
attribute is prefixed with its own schema. &nbsp;We do not have to worry =
about attribute name collisions since the base object and each extension =
have their own position in the json structure.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">You will also notice that when =
referring to those attributes, you use the schema uri plus the attribute =
extension name together. &nbsp;Eg.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">filter=3Durn:enterprise:2.0:User:organization eq =E2=80=9CUnive=
rsal Studio"</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">At =
the time we wrote this specification, there was still a tremendous =
pushback in the JSON community on having any schema at all. &nbsp;As a =
result, we adopted a very =E2=80=9Cloose=E2=80=9D model that focuses on =
letting a parser know what attributes may be present in a JSON object =
that also avoids naming conflicts.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Hopefully this helps.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks for the =
comments!</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Phil</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">@independentid</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.independentid.com/" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div></div></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div></span></div></span></div></span>=
</div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Grizzle &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com" =
class=3D"">kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">Hmmm =E2=80=A6 I don=E2=80=99t think =
the docs are quite so clear on that one.&nbsp; In JSON, ordering does =
not matter, so it doesn=E2=80=99t matter if it is interleaved with other =
attributes
 or not.&nbsp; However, JSON also does not allow multiple keys with the =
same name.&nbsp; In other words, this will not work:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">...<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;" class=3D""> scim [<a href=3D"mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b class=3D"">On Behalf Of </b>Keith Hazelton<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:07 PM<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes =
from schema extensions<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Kelly,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thanks for your quick =
response.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" =
class=3D"">So does '</span>the sub-attribute must be named using the =
schema extension URI=E2=80=9D mean that all the enterprise user =
attributes have to appear together in a uri-container as indicated in =
draft-22,
 Figure 5: Example Enterprise User JSON Representation:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=A6<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>=

</div>
<div class=3D"">
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D""> =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": {<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"employeeNumber": "701984",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"costCenter": "4130",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"organization": "Universal Studios",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"division": "Theme Park",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"department": "Tour Operations",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"manager": {<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "value": =
"26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "$ref": =
"../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "displayName": "John =
Smith"<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
}<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp; },<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><br clear=3D"all" =
style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">
</span>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">Or could =
the extended attributes be interleaved with the User schema attributes =
by putting each one in that form, e.g.,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><br clear=3D"all" =
style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">
</span>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">"userName": =
"<a href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984",},<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_SIGNATURE" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#888888" class=3D"">--&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>=

</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#888888" class=3D"">email &amp; jabber:
<a href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"il">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</span></a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#888888" class=3D"">calendar:
<a href=3D"http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Kelly Grizzle<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Date: </b>Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 11:48 <br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To: </b>Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject: </b>RE: Question on the use of attributes from =
schema extensions<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D" class=3D"">named using th</span>
<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">scim =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">scim@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim</a><br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:53:00 +0000
From: Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
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Thread-topic: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
In-Reply-To: <6998A838-73A9-480D-B0C5-2E4438A94D74@wisc.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:11:23 -0700
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References: <3FBCDECF-424B-4C8D-AE4F-7C2BADEC91F2@wisc.edu> <BN1PR04MB39292911CB883FC04ADB06BE27F0@BN1PR04MB392.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> <79955440-1957-492D-B815-54E5FC3B228C@wisc.edu> <BN1PR04MB392247FE2E9878E6468DCDDE27F0@BN1PR04MB392.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> <88E432CB-B735-4673-A737-38A3C2FA24C1@oracle.com> <078408D6-44F5-456C-A6FD-AF6717CC7672@oracle.com> <6998A838-73A9-480D-B0C5-2E4438A94D74@wisc.edu>
To: Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
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Cc: SCIM WG <scim@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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=46rom a protocol perspective it does not matter.

However we set aside that namespace in the IANA registry for those that =
want to use it to signal a schema is an =E2=80=9Cextension=E2=80=9D.

In practice a server will only pay attention to those schemas that it =
lists under the /Schemas endpoint and will ignore the rest.  Wether a =
schema defines an object or an extension to an object is defined under =
/ResourceTypes.

Cheers,

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

> On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu> =
wrote:
>=20
> Quick followup question: For custom extensions, does the unique schema =
value URI have to be under urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension  or =
could it be under any valid uri?     =E2=80=94Keith
> --=20
> email & jabber: keith.hazelton@wisc.edu =
<mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
> calendar: http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0 <http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0>
>=20
> From: Phil Hunt
> Date: Friday, August 14, 2015 at 11:43=20
> To: Phil Hunt
> Cc: Kelly Grizzle, Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG
> Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema =
extensions
>=20
> Ooops=E2=80=A6  in my =E2=80=9Cgood=E2=80=9D example below, I forgot =
to make the schemas value =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User" consistent =
with the schema bag "urn:enterprise:2.0:User"
>=20
> apologies for any confusion.
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com =
<http://www.independentid.com/>phil.hunt@oracle.com =
<mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>
>> On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:41 AM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com =
<mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Keith,
>>=20
>> Sorry for the late response.  Just got back from my off-the-grid =
holiday.  :-)
>>=20
>> The example below (from Kelly) would likely not parse reliably as =
some parsers might only return the last or first instance.  The idea is =
to place all extension attributes together in a JSON =E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D=
 which is a JSON attribute holding the name of the schema extension URI =
(as per the examples).
>>=20
>> BAD:
>>> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },
>>> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },
>>=20
>> Good:
>> {
>>   "schemas":
>>     [ "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:core:2.0:User",
>>       "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User"],
>>   "id": "2819c223-7f76-453a-919d-413861904646",
>>   "externalId": "701984",
>>   "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>>   "name": {
>>     "formatted": "Ms. Barbara J Jensen III",
>>     "familyName": "Jensen",
>>     "givenName": "Barbara",
>>     "middleName": "Jane",
>>     "honorificPrefix": "Ms.",
>>     "honorificSuffix": "III"
>>   },
>>   "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>>   "nickName": "Babs",
>>=20
>>   =E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D: {
>>      "employeeNumber": "701984",
>>      =E2=80=9CcostCenter": "4130",
>>      "organization": "Universal Studios",
>>      "division": "Theme Park",
>>     "department": "Tour Operations",
>>     "manager": {
>>        "value": "26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>        "$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>        "displayName": "John Smith"
>>      }
>>   }
>> ...
>> }
>>=20
>> =E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D could be any extension URN =
you define.  Thus if you define attributes of same name as =
urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D, =
then there is no collision.
>>=20
>> In this sense, every attribute is prefixed with its own schema.  We =
do not have to worry about attribute name collisions since the base =
object and each extension have their own position in the json structure.
>>=20
>> You will also notice that when referring to those attributes, you use =
the schema uri plus the attribute extension name together.  Eg.
>>=20
>> filter=3Durn:enterprise:2.0:User:organization eq =E2=80=9CUniversal =
Studio"
>>=20
>> At the time we wrote this specification, there was still a tremendous =
pushback in the JSON community on having any schema at all.  As a =
result, we adopted a very =E2=80=9Cloose=E2=80=9D model that focuses on =
letting a parser know what attributes may be present in a JSON object =
that also avoids naming conflicts.
>>=20
>> Hopefully this helps.
>>=20
>> Thanks for the comments!
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com =
<http://www.independentid.com/>phil.hunt@oracle.com =
<mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>
>>> On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Grizzle =
<kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com <mailto:kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com>> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hmmm =E2=80=A6 I don=E2=80=99t think the docs are quite so clear on =
that one.  In JSON, ordering does not matter, so it doesn=E2=80=99t =
matter if it is interleaved with other attributes or not.  However, JSON =
also does not allow multiple keys with the same name.  In other words, =
this will not work:
>>> =20
>>> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },
>>> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },
>>> ...
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> From: scim [mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Keith Hazelton
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:07 PM
>>> To: SCIM WG
>>> Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema =
extensions
>>> =20
>>> Kelly,
>>> =20
>>> Thanks for your quick response.
>>> =20
>>> So does 'the sub-attribute must be named using the schema extension =
URI=E2=80=9D mean that all the enterprise user attributes have to appear =
together in a uri-container as indicated in draft-22, Figure 5: Example =
Enterprise User JSON Representation:
>>> =20
>>> =E2=80=A6
>>>  "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": {
>>>     "employeeNumber": "701984",
>>>     "costCenter": "4130",
>>>     "organization": "Universal Studios",
>>>     "division": "Theme Park",
>>>     "department": "Tour Operations",
>>>     "manager": {
>>>       "value": "26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>>       "$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>>       "displayName": "John Smith"
>>>     }
>>>   },
>>> =E2=80=A6
>>>=20
>>>  Or could the extended attributes be interleaved with the User =
schema attributes by putting each one in that form, e.g.,
>>>=20
>>>  =E2=80=A6
>>> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984",},
>>> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>>> =E2=80=A6
>>> --=20
>>> email & jabber: keith.hazelton@wisc.edu =
<mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
>>> calendar: http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0 <http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0>
>>> =20
>>> From: Kelly Grizzle
>>> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 11:48=20
>>> To: Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG
>>> Subject: RE: Question on the use of attributes from schema =
extensions
>>> =20
>>> named using th
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> scim mailing list
>>> scim@ietf.org <mailto:scim@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim>
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> scim mailing list
> scim@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">=46rom a protocol perspective it does not matter.<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">However we set aside =
that namespace in the IANA registry for those that want to use it to =
signal a schema is an =E2=80=9Cextension=E2=80=9D.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">In practice a server =
will only pay attention to those schemas that it lists under the =
/Schemas endpoint and will ignore the rest. &nbsp;Wether a schema =
defines an object or an extension to an object is defined under =
/ResourceTypes.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Cheers,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
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class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
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class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
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word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
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font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
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class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
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normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
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word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
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-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Phil</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">@independentid</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.independentid.com" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div></div></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div></span></div></span></div></span>=
</div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Keith Hazelton &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" =
class=3D"">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D"">

<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Quick followup question: For custom extensions, does the =
unique schema value URI have to be under =
urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension &nbsp;or could it be under any =
valid uri? &nbsp; &nbsp; =E2=80=94Keith</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_SIGNATURE" class=3D""><span class=3D"adL =
HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">--&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">email &amp; jabber: <a =
href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span=
 class=3D"il">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</span></a></div>
<div class=3D"">calendar: <a href=3D"http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt; text-align: left; =
border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: =
3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">From: </span>Phil Hunt<br =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Date: </span>Friday, August =
14, 2015 at 11:43 <br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">To: </span>Phil Hunt<br =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Cc: </span>Kelly Grizzle, =
Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Subject: </span>Re: [scim] =
Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
Ooops=E2=80=A6 &nbsp;in my =E2=80=9Cgood=E2=80=9D example below, I =
forgot to make the schemas value "<span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User" =
consistent with the schema bag "</span><span style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">urn:enterprise:2.0:User"</span>
<div apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">apologies for any confusion.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Phil</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">@independentid</div>
<div class=3D""><a href=3D"http://www.independentid.com/" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div>
</div>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:41 AM, Phil Hunt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Keith,</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
Sorry for the late response. &nbsp;Just got back from my off-the-grid =
holiday. &nbsp;:-)
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">The example below (from Kelly) would likely not parse =
reliably as some parsers might only return the last or first instance. =
&nbsp;The idea is to place all extension attributes together in a JSON =
=E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D which is a JSON attribute holding the name of
 the schema extension URI (as per the examples).</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">BAD:</div>
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: always;">"userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: always; widows: =
1;">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: always;">"displayName": =
"Babs Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: =
always;">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },</pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">Good:</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">{</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "schemas":</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; [ =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:core:2.0:User",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User"],</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "id": "2819c223-7f76-453a-919d-413861904646",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "externalId": "701984",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "userName": "<a href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "name": {</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "formatted": "Ms. Barbara J Jensen III",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "familyName": "Jensen",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "givenName": "Barbara",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "middleName": "Jane",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "honorificPrefix": "Ms.",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "honorificSuffix": "III"</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; },</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "displayName": "Babs Jensen",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "nickName": "Babs",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; =E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D: {</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"employeeNumber": "701984",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=E2=80=9CcostCenter": "4130",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"organization": "Universal =
Studios",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"division": "Theme Park",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "department": "Tour Operations",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "manager": {</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"value": =
"26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"$ref": =
"../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"displayName": "John Smith"</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;}</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; }</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">...</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">}</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">=E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D could be any =
extension URN you define. &nbsp;Thus if you define attributes of same =
name as&nbsp;<font face=3D"Courier New" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">,
 then there is no collision.</span></font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier New" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</span></font></div>
<div class=3D"">In this sense, every attribute is prefixed with its own =
schema. &nbsp;We do not have to worry about attribute name collisions =
since the base object and each extension have their own position in the =
json structure.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">You will also notice that when referring to those =
attributes, you use the schema uri plus the attribute extension name =
together. &nbsp;Eg.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">filter=3Durn:enterprise:2.0:User:organization eq =
=E2=80=9CUniversal Studio"</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">At the time we wrote this specification, there was still =
a tremendous pushback in the JSON community on having any schema at all. =
&nbsp;As a result, we adopted a very =E2=80=9Cloose=E2=80=9D model that =
focuses on letting a parser know what attributes may be present
 in a JSON object that also avoids naming conflicts.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Hopefully this helps.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Thanks for the comments!</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
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<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
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widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
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white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Phil</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">@independentid</div>
<div class=3D""><a href=3D"http://www.independentid.com/" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div>
</div>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Grizzle &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com" =
class=3D"">kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)" =
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
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style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hmmm =E2=80=A6 I don=E2=80=99t think the =
docs are quite so clear on that one.&nbsp; In JSON, ordering does not =
matter, so it doesn=E2=80=99t matter if it is interleaved
 with other attributes or not.&nbsp; However, JSON also does not allow =
multiple keys with the same name.&nbsp; In other words, this will not =
work:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
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</div>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">...<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""> scim [<a =
href=3D"mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b class=3D"">On Behalf Of </b>Keith Hazelton<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:07 PM<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes =
from schema extensions<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Kelly,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thanks for your quick =
response.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">So does '</span>the sub-attribute must =
be named using the schema extension URI=E2=80=9D mean that all the =
enterprise user attributes have to appear together in a uri-container as =
indicated
 in draft-22, Figure 5: Example Enterprise User JSON Representation:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=A6<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>=

</div>
<div class=3D"">
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D""> =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": {<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"employeeNumber": "701984",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"costCenter": "4130",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"organization": "Universal Studios",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"division": "Theme Park",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"department": "Tour Operations",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"manager": {<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "value": =
"26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "$ref": =
"../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "displayName": "John =
Smith"<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
}<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp; },<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D""><br clear=3D"all" style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">
</span>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">Or could =
the extended attributes be interleaved with the User schema attributes =
by putting each one in that form, e.g.,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D""><br clear=3D"all" style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">
</span>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">"userName": =
"<a href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984",},<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div id=3D"" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" =
class=3D"">--&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" =
class=3D"">email &amp; jabber:
<a href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"il">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</span></a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" =
class=3D"">calendar:
<a href=3D"http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Kelly Grizzle<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Date: </b>Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 11:48 <br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To: </b>Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject: </b>RE: Question on the use of attributes from =
schema extensions<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">named using th</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
scim mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" class=3D"">scim@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim</a><br class=3D"">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</span>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">scim =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">scim@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:31:14 +0000
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Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions
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From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 11:56:07 -0700
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References: <3FBCDECF-424B-4C8D-AE4F-7C2BADEC91F2@wisc.edu> <BN1PR04MB39292911CB883FC04ADB06BE27F0@BN1PR04MB392.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> <79955440-1957-492D-B815-54E5FC3B228C@wisc.edu> <BN1PR04MB392247FE2E9878E6468DCDDE27F0@BN1PR04MB392.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> <88E432CB-B735-4673-A737-38A3C2FA24C1@oracle.com> <078408D6-44F5-456C-A6FD-AF6717CC7672@oracle.com> <6998A838-73A9-480D-B0C5-2E4438A94D74@wisc.edu> <A8072F32-17AC-4C07-B616-099EF06030D6@oracle.com> <404475DD-43E0-4CC8-974C-6D280A84FA43@wisc.edu>
To: Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
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Cc: SCIM WG <scim@ietf.org>
Subject: [scim] Registering new schema (was Re: Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions)
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Yes.  Wide open.  My understanding of the WG and the IESG intent is the =
only intent of review is to eliminate spammy registrations.=20

Some thoughts...

Before you register, the only caution is that the WG has not really =
discussed (at length) how to handle versioning of schema (as opposed to =
versioning of the protocol).=20

For example, if you were to submit a first draft of the =E2=80=9Cedu" =
schema, what should you do when you want to revise it?  Simply revise =
the current document registration, OR, register a new schema URN with =
version n.1?   The problem that arises is does a new =E2=80=9Cversion=E2=80=
=9D of a schema represent a different schema =E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D =
because it is technically a different URN.  Or is it a replacement?

I=E2=80=99m not sure it matters that much to the WG. But we might be =
able to collectively come up with some best practices. Something to =
think about.  Curious as to your thoughts.

Given the edu schema that=E2=80=99s been used in other protocols is =
actually very mature, I wouldn=E2=80=99t be afraid to register it sooner =
than later.  One item to consider is whether to make use of SCIM=E2=80=99s=
 complex attributes if you are porting from the LDAP eduschema.  =
There=E2=80=99s a certain advantage in SCIM to be able to =E2=80=9Ctype=E2=
=80=9D multi-valued attributes (such as we have with emails and =
addresses).

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

> On Aug 14, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu> =
wrote:
>=20
> Understood about the server-side support. Would you say the IANA =
registry process defined in Core Schema Section 10 is intended to be =
relatively open to outside contributions (such as higher ed) for new =
schema or schema extensions?    =E2=80=94Keith=20
> --=20
> email & jabber: keith.hazelton@wisc.edu =
<mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
> calendar: http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0 <http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0>
>=20
> From: Phil Hunt
> Date: Friday, August 14, 2015 at 12:11=20
> To: Keith Hazelton
> Cc: SCIM WG
> Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema =
extensions
>=20
> =46rom a protocol perspective it does not matter.
>=20
> However we set aside that namespace in the IANA registry for those =
that want to use it to signal a schema is an =E2=80=9Cextension=E2=80=9D.
>=20
> In practice a server will only pay attention to those schemas that it =
lists under the /Schemas endpoint and will ignore the rest.  Wether a =
schema defines an object or an extension to an object is defined under =
/ResourceTypes.
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com =
<http://www.independentid.com/>phil.hunt@oracle.com =
<mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>
>> On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Keith Hazelton <keith.hazelton@wisc.edu =
<mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Quick followup question: For custom extensions, does the unique =
schema value URI have to be under urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension =
 or could it be under any valid uri?     =E2=80=94Keith
>> --=20
>> email & jabber: keith.hazelton@wisc.edu =
<mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
>> calendar: http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0 <http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0>
>>=20
>> From: Phil Hunt
>> Date: Friday, August 14, 2015 at 11:43=20
>> To: Phil Hunt
>> Cc: Kelly Grizzle, Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG
>> Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema =
extensions
>>=20
>> Ooops=E2=80=A6  in my =E2=80=9Cgood=E2=80=9D example below, I forgot =
to make the schemas value =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User" consistent =
with the schema bag "urn:enterprise:2.0:User"
>>=20
>> apologies for any confusion.
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com =
<http://www.independentid.com/>phil.hunt@oracle.com =
<mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>
>>> On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:41 AM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com =
<mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Keith,
>>>=20
>>> Sorry for the late response.  Just got back from my off-the-grid =
holiday.  :-)
>>>=20
>>> The example below (from Kelly) would likely not parse reliably as =
some parsers might only return the last or first instance.  The idea is =
to place all extension attributes together in a JSON =E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D=
 which is a JSON attribute holding the name of the schema extension URI =
(as per the examples).
>>>=20
>>> BAD:
>>>> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },
>>>> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },
>>>=20
>>> Good:
>>> {
>>>   "schemas":
>>>     [ "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:core:2.0:User",
>>>       "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User"],
>>>   "id": "2819c223-7f76-453a-919d-413861904646",
>>>   "externalId": "701984",
>>>   "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>>>   "name": {
>>>     "formatted": "Ms. Barbara J Jensen III",
>>>     "familyName": "Jensen",
>>>     "givenName": "Barbara",
>>>     "middleName": "Jane",
>>>     "honorificPrefix": "Ms.",
>>>     "honorificSuffix": "III"
>>>   },
>>>   "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>>>   "nickName": "Babs",
>>>=20
>>>   =E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D: {
>>>      "employeeNumber": "701984",
>>>      =E2=80=9CcostCenter": "4130",
>>>      "organization": "Universal Studios",
>>>      "division": "Theme Park",
>>>     "department": "Tour Operations",
>>>     "manager": {
>>>        "value": "26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>>        "$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>>        "displayName": "John Smith"
>>>      }
>>>   }
>>> ...
>>> }
>>>=20
>>> =E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D could be any extension URN =
you define.  Thus if you define attributes of same name as =
urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D, =
then there is no collision.
>>>=20
>>> In this sense, every attribute is prefixed with its own schema.  We =
do not have to worry about attribute name collisions since the base =
object and each extension have their own position in the json structure.
>>>=20
>>> You will also notice that when referring to those attributes, you =
use the schema uri plus the attribute extension name together.  Eg.
>>>=20
>>> filter=3Durn:enterprise:2.0:User:organization eq =E2=80=9CUniversal =
Studio"
>>>=20
>>> At the time we wrote this specification, there was still a =
tremendous pushback in the JSON community on having any schema at all.  =
As a result, we adopted a very =E2=80=9Cloose=E2=80=9D model that =
focuses on letting a parser know what attributes may be present in a =
JSON object that also avoids naming conflicts.
>>>=20
>>> Hopefully this helps.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks for the comments!
>>>=20
>>> Phil
>>>=20
>>> @independentid
>>> www.independentid.com =
<http://www.independentid.com/>phil.hunt@oracle.com =
<mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>
>>>> On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Grizzle =
<kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com <mailto:kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com>> =
wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Hmmm =E2=80=A6 I don=E2=80=99t think the docs are quite so clear on =
that one.  In JSON, ordering does not matter, so it doesn=E2=80=99t =
matter if it is interleaved with other attributes or not.  However, JSON =
also does not allow multiple keys with the same name.  In other words, =
this will not work:
>>>> =20
>>>> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },
>>>> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },
>>>> ...
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> From: scim [mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Keith Hazelton
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:07 PM
>>>> To: SCIM WG
>>>> Subject: Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes from schema =
extensions
>>>> =20
>>>> Kelly,
>>>> =20
>>>> Thanks for your quick response.
>>>> =20
>>>> So does 'the sub-attribute must be named using the schema extension =
URI=E2=80=9D mean that all the enterprise user attributes have to appear =
together in a uri-container as indicated in draft-22, Figure 5: Example =
Enterprise User JSON Representation:
>>>> =20
>>>> =E2=80=A6
>>>>  "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": {
>>>>     "employeeNumber": "701984",
>>>>     "costCenter": "4130",
>>>>     "organization": "Universal Studios",
>>>>     "division": "Theme Park",
>>>>     "department": "Tour Operations",
>>>>     "manager": {
>>>>       "value": "26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>>>       "$ref": "../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",
>>>>       "displayName": "John Smith"
>>>>     }
>>>>   },
>>>> =E2=80=A6
>>>>=20
>>>>  Or could the extended attributes be interleaved with the User =
schema attributes by putting each one in that form, e.g.,
>>>>=20
>>>>  =E2=80=A6
>>>> "userName": "bjensen@example.com <mailto:bjensen@example.com>",
>>>> "urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984",},
>>>> "displayName": "Babs Jensen",
>>>> =E2=80=A6
>>>> --=20
>>>> email & jabber: keith.hazelton@wisc.edu =
<mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu>
>>>> calendar: http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0 <http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0>
>>>> =20
>>>> From: Kelly Grizzle
>>>> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 11:48=20
>>>> To: Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG
>>>> Subject: RE: Question on the use of attributes from schema =
extensions
>>>> =20
>>>> named using th
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> scim mailing list
>>>> scim@ietf.org <mailto:scim@ietf.org>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim>
>>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> scim mailing list
>> scim@ietf.org <mailto:scim@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> scim mailing list
> scim@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim


--Apple-Mail=_73AAEE3A-B1E1-4A70-AB56-79E3D6A1D6A3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Yes. &nbsp;Wide open. &nbsp;My understanding of the WG and =
the IESG intent is the only intent of review is to eliminate spammy =
registrations.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Some thoughts...</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
 class=3D"">Before you register, the only caution is that the WG has not =
really discussed (at length) how to handle versioning of schema (as =
opposed to versioning of the protocol).&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">For example, if you were to submit a =
first draft of the =E2=80=9Cedu" schema, what should you do when you =
want to revise it? &nbsp;Simply revise the current document =
registration, OR, register a new schema URN with version n.1? &nbsp; The =
problem that arises is does a new =E2=80=9Cversion=E2=80=9D of a schema =
represent a different schema =E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D because it is =
technically a different URN. &nbsp;Or is it a replacement?</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m not sure it =
matters that much to the WG. But we might be able to collectively come =
up with some best practices. Something to think about. &nbsp;Curious as =
to your thoughts.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Given the edu schema that=E2=80=99s been used in other =
protocols is actually very mature, I wouldn=E2=80=99t be afraid to =
register it sooner than later. &nbsp;One item to consider is whether to =
make use of SCIM=E2=80=99s complex attributes if you are porting from =
the LDAP eduschema. &nbsp;There=E2=80=99s a certain advantage in SCIM to =
be able to =E2=80=9Ctype=E2=80=9D multi-valued attributes (such as we =
have with emails and addresses).</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div apple-content-edited=3D"true" =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Phil</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">@independentid</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.independentid.com" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div></div></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div></span></div></span></div></span>=
</div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 14, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Keith Hazelton &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" =
class=3D"">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D"">

<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Understood about the server-side support. Would you say =
the IANA registry process defined in Core Schema Section 10 is intended =
to be relatively open to outside contributions (such as higher ed) for =
new schema or schema extensions? &nbsp; &nbsp;=E2=80=94Keith&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_SIGNATURE" class=3D""><span class=3D"adL =
HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">--&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">email &amp; jabber: <a =
href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span=
 class=3D"il">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</span></a></div>
<div class=3D"">calendar: <a href=3D"http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt; text-align: left; =
border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: =
3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">From: </span>Phil Hunt<br =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Date: </span>Friday, August =
14, 2015 at 12:11 <br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">To: </span>Keith Hazelton<br =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Cc: </span>SCIM WG<br =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Subject: </span>Re: [scim] =
Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
=46rom a protocol perspective it does not matter.
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">However we set aside that namespace in the IANA registry =
for those that want to use it to signal a schema is an =
=E2=80=9Cextension=E2=80=9D.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">In practice a server will only pay attention to those =
schemas that it lists under the /Schemas endpoint and will ignore the =
rest. &nbsp;Wether a schema defines an object or an extension to an =
object is defined under /ResourceTypes.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Cheers,</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Phil</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">@independentid</div>
<div class=3D""><a href=3D"http://www.independentid.com/" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div>
</div>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Keith Hazelton &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" =
class=3D"">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Quick followup question: For custom extensions, does the =
unique schema value URI have to be under =
urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension &nbsp;or could it be under any =
valid uri? &nbsp; &nbsp; =E2=80=94Keith</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div id=3D"" class=3D""><span class=3D"adL HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"=
 class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">--&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">email &amp; jabber: <a =
href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"il">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</span></a></div>
<div class=3D"">calendar: <a href=3D"http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">
http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt; text-align: left; =
border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: =
3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">From: </span>Phil Hunt<br =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Date: </span>Friday, August =
14, 2015 at 11:43
<br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">To: </span>Phil Hunt<br =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Cc: </span>Kelly Grizzle, =
Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Subject: </span>Re: [scim] =
Question on the use of attributes from schema extensions<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
Ooops=E2=80=A6 &nbsp;in my =E2=80=9Cgood=E2=80=9D example below, I =
forgot to make the schemas value "<span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User" =
consistent with the schema bag "</span><span style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">urn:enterprise:2.0:User"</span>
<div apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">apologies for any confusion.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Phil</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">@independentid</div>
<div class=3D""><a href=3D"http://www.independentid.com/" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div>
</div>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:41 AM, Phil Hunt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Keith,</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
Sorry for the late response. &nbsp;Just got back from my off-the-grid =
holiday. &nbsp;:-)
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">The example below (from Kelly) would likely not parse =
reliably as some parsers might only return the last or first instance. =
&nbsp;The idea is to place all extension attributes together in a JSON =
=E2=80=9Cbag=E2=80=9D which is a JSON attribute holding the name of
 the schema extension URI (as per the examples).</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">BAD:</div>
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: always;">"userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: always; widows: =
1;">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: always;">"displayName": =
"Babs Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"page-break-before: =
always;">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },</pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">Good:</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">{</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "schemas":</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; [ =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:core:2.0:User",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User"],</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "id": "2819c223-7f76-453a-919d-413861904646",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "externalId": "701984",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "userName": "<a href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "name": {</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "formatted": "Ms. Barbara J Jensen III",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "familyName": "Jensen",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "givenName": "Barbara",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "middleName": "Jane",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "honorificPrefix": "Ms.",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "honorificSuffix": "III"</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; },</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "displayName": "Babs Jensen",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "nickName": "Babs",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; =E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D: {</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"employeeNumber": "701984",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=E2=80=9CcostCenter": "4130",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"organization": "Universal =
Studios",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"division": "Theme Park",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "department": "Tour Operations",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "manager": {</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"value": =
"26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"$ref": =
"../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"displayName": "John Smith"</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;}</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; }</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">...</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">}</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">=E2=80=9Curn:enterprise:2.0:User=E2=80=9D could be any =
extension URN you define. &nbsp;Thus if you define attributes of same =
name as&nbsp;<font face=3D"Courier New" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">,
 then there is no collision.</span></font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier New" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</span></font></div>
<div class=3D"">In this sense, every attribute is prefixed with its own =
schema. &nbsp;We do not have to worry about attribute name collisions =
since the base object and each extension have their own position in the =
json structure.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">You will also notice that when referring to those =
attributes, you use the schema uri plus the attribute extension name =
together. &nbsp;Eg.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">filter=3Durn:enterprise:2.0:User:organization eq =
=E2=80=9CUniversal Studio"</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">At the time we wrote this specification, there was still =
a tremendous pushback in the JSON community on having any schema at all. =
&nbsp;As a result, we adopted a very =E2=80=9Cloose=E2=80=9D model that =
focuses on letting a parser know what attributes may be present
 in a JSON object that also avoids naming conflicts.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Hopefully this helps.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Thanks for the comments!</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
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<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Phil</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">@independentid</div>
<div class=3D""><a href=3D"http://www.independentid.com/" =
class=3D"">www.independentid.com</a></div>
</div>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Grizzle &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com" =
class=3D"">kelly.grizzle@sailpoint.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
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	margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hmmm =E2=80=A6 I don=E2=80=99t think the =
docs are quite so clear on that one.&nbsp; In JSON, ordering does not =
matter, so it doesn=E2=80=99t matter if it is interleaved
 with other attributes or not.&nbsp; However, JSON also does not allow =
multiple keys with the same name.&nbsp; In other words, this will not =
work:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"userName": "<a =
href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"department": "Tour Operations" },<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">...<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""> scim [<a =
href=3D"mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b class=3D"">On Behalf Of </b>Keith Hazelton<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:07 PM<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [scim] Question on the use of attributes =
from schema extensions<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Kelly,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thanks for your quick =
response.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">So does '</span>the sub-attribute must =
be named using the schema extension URI=E2=80=9D mean that all the =
enterprise user attributes have to appear together in a uri-container as =
indicated
 in draft-22, Figure 5: Example Enterprise User JSON Representation:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=A6<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>=

</div>
<div class=3D"">
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D""> =
"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": {<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"employeeNumber": "701984",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"costCenter": "4130",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"organization": "Universal Studios",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"division": "Theme Park",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"department": "Tour Operations",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"manager": {<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "value": =
"26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "$ref": =
"../Users/26118915-6090-4610-87e4-49d8ca9f808d",<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "displayName": "John =
Smith"<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
}<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">&nbsp; },<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D""><br clear=3D"all" style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">
</span>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">Or could =
the extended attributes be interleaved with the User schema attributes =
by putting each one in that form, e.g.,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D""><br clear=3D"all" style=3D"page-break-before:always" =
class=3D"">
</span>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" class=3D"">"userName": =
"<a href=3D"mailto:bjensen@example.com" =
class=3D"">bjensen@example.com</a>",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always;widows: 1" =
class=3D"">"urn:ietf:params:scim:schemas:extension:enterprise:2.0:User": =
{"employeeNumber": "701984",},<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">"displayName": "Babs =
Jensen",<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div id=3D"" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" =
class=3D"">--&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" =
class=3D"">email &amp; jabber:
<a href=3D"mailto:keith.hazelton@wisc.edu" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"il">keith.hazelton@wisc.edu</span></a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" =
class=3D"">calendar:
<a href=3D"http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://go.wisc.edu/i6zxx0</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Kelly Grizzle<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Date: </b>Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 11:48 <br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To: </b>Keith Hazelton, SCIM WG<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject: </b>RE: Question on the use of attributes from =
schema extensions<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">named using th</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
scim mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" class=3D"">scim@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim</a><br class=3D"">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
scim mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" class=3D"">scim@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim</a><br class=3D"">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">scim =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">scim@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_73AAEE3A-B1E1-4A70-AB56-79E3D6A1D6A3--


From nobody Wed Aug 19 02:17:28 2015
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Message-ID: <55D449A2.4010205@tarent.de>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 11:17:22 +0200
From: Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de>
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Subject: [scim] Question about Filtering in SCIM Spec
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Hello,

I'm working on the osiam.org project, which implements SCIMv2. We have
an issue [1] in our project. I'm not quite sure if that is specified by
the SCIM spec.

Our user wants to filter
    not(groups eq "<groupId>")
[Expected result: All users that are not included in a given group]

and

    not(members eq "<userId>")
[Expected result: All groups in which is the user not a member]

Our current implementation does not deliver the expected results.
My question: Is this defined in the SCIM spec? I've read [2], but did
not find anything about that there.
If it is valid: What would be the expected result? What does not() on
groups or members mean?

Best regards,
Florian Wilhelm

[1] https://github.com/osiam/resource-server/issues/7
[2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#section-3.4.2.2

-- 
Florian Wilhelm
Software Development

tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
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Steeg


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Subject: Re: [scim] Question about Filtering in SCIM Spec
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Florian=E2=80=A6

You=E2=80=99ve managed to hit on a couple of oddities that go back to =
SCIM 1 (I think).

For the query against the Groups resource, try:

not(members.value eq =E2=80=9C<userid>=E2=80=9D)

=E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D is a complex attribute and thus the comparison =
attribute is value.  Some SCIM systems may accept this, but it was never =
actually defined in the specs that =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D could be =
assumed to be the default comparison sub-attribute for a complex =
attribute. I just learned this myself a couple of weeks ago.  :-)

Regarding querying against members (of the User resource):
Because the specification indicates the =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D =
attribute mutability is =E2=80=9CreadOnly=E2=80=9D many implementations =
will only calculate its contents when returning the user resource and =
thus members is likely not indexed.=20

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

> On Aug 19, 2015, at 2:17 AM, Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hello,
>=20
> I'm working on the osiam.org project, which implements SCIMv2. We have
> an issue [1] in our project. I'm not quite sure if that is specified =
by
> the SCIM spec.
>=20
> Our user wants to filter
>    not(groups eq "<groupId>")
> [Expected result: All users that are not included in a given group]
>=20
> and
>=20
>    not(members eq "<userId>")
> [Expected result: All groups in which is the user not a member]
>=20
> Our current implementation does not deliver the expected results.
> My question: Is this defined in the SCIM spec? I've read [2], but did
> not find anything about that there.
> If it is valid: What would be the expected result? What does not() on
> groups or members mean?
>=20
> Best regards,
> Florian Wilhelm
>=20
> [1] https://github.com/osiam/resource-server/issues/7
> [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#section-3.4.2.2
>=20
> --=20
> Florian Wilhelm
> Software Development
>=20
> tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
> Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
> Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495
>=20
> Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
> Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235
> HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
> Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris =
Esser, Alexander
> Steeg
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> scim mailing list
> scim@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim


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Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:46:15 +0200
From: Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de>
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Subject: Re: [scim] Question about Filtering in SCIM Spec
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Hello Phil,

thank you for your reply. It seems as if I could not make my question
clear enough.

We are trying to implement the SCIM spec and are not clear on what it
says about this specific case.

Quote from Page 22, first paragraph,
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-22
> the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute
match the specified criterion

Definition of the "not" operator,
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-19:
> The filter is a match if the expression evaluates to false.

To what "match" from section 3 does the "not" apply?

Case 1:

The "not" is related to the first "match", so 'not (expression)' means:
"the filter matches if not any (= none) of the values of the specified
attribute match the specified criterion".

Case 2:

The "not" is related to the second "match", so 'not (expression)' means:
"the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute
don't match the specified criterion".

To illustrate my question, please consider the following example:

User 1
Groups: A, B, C

User 2
Groups: B

User 3
Groups: A, C

When I query "Group eq 'B'", the result is User 1 and User 2, which is
perfectly fine and conforms to the spec.

But when I query "not(Group eq 'B')", what should be the actual the result?

Case 1: "the filter matches if not any (= none) of the values of the
specified attribute match the specified criterion"

The result would be only User 3, because all others have an attribute
that contains "B".

Case 2: "the filter matches if any of the values of the specified
attribute don't match the specified criterion"

The result would be User 1 and User 3, because each of them has at least
one attribute that doesn't contain "B". Compare this with the following
table, that shows the data in some kind of relational structure:

User | Group | eq | not(eq)
-----+-------+----+--------
  1  |   A   | -  |  +
  1  |   B   | +  |  -
  1  |   C   | -  |  +
  2  |   B   | +  |  -
  3  |   A   | -  |  +
  3  |   C   | -  |  +

* User 1 matches, because it has at least on "+" in the last column
* User 2 doesn't match, because all values in the last column are "-"
* User 3 matches again, because it has at least on "+" in the last column

My question is: What is the correct interpretation of the "not" operator
in the context of a multi-valued attribute according to the spec?

Best regards,
Florian Wilhelm


Am 19.08.2015 um 19:02 schrieb Phil Hunt:
> Florian…
> 
> You’ve managed to hit on a couple of oddities that go back to SCIM 1 (I think).
> 
> For the query against the Groups resource, try:
> 
> not(members.value eq “<userid>”)
> 
> “members” is a complex attribute and thus the comparison attribute is value.  Some SCIM systems may accept this, but it was never actually defined in the specs that “value” could be assumed to be the default comparison sub-attribute for a complex attribute. I just learned this myself a couple of weeks ago.  :-)
> 
> Regarding querying against members (of the User resource):
> Because the specification indicates the “members” attribute mutability is “readOnly” many implementations will only calculate its contents when returning the user resource and thus members is likely not indexed. 
> 
> Phil
> 
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2015, at 2:17 AM, Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm working on the osiam.org project, which implements SCIMv2. We have
>> an issue [1] in our project. I'm not quite sure if that is specified by
>> the SCIM spec.
>>
>> Our user wants to filter
>>    not(groups eq "<groupId>")
>> [Expected result: All users that are not included in a given group]
>>
>> and
>>
>>    not(members eq "<userId>")
>> [Expected result: All groups in which is the user not a member]
>>
>> Our current implementation does not deliver the expected results.
>> My question: Is this defined in the SCIM spec? I've read [2], but did
>> not find anything about that there.
>> If it is valid: What would be the expected result? What does not() on
>> groups or members mean?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Florian Wilhelm
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/osiam/resource-server/issues/7
>> [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#section-3.4.2.2
>>
>> -- 
>> Florian Wilhelm
>> Software Development
>>
>> tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
>> Voltastraße 5, D-13355 Berlin • http://www.tarent.de/
>> Tel: +49 30 138803-0 • Fax: +49 30 56829495
>>
>> Rochusstraße 2-4, D-53123 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/
>> Tel: +49 228 54881-0 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235
>> HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
>> Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander
>> Steeg
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> scim mailing list
>> scim@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim
> 

-- 
Florian Wilhelm
Softwareentwicklung

tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
Voltastraße 5, D-13355 Berlin • http://www.tarent.de/
Tel: +49 30 138803-0 • Fax: +49 30 56829495

Rochusstraße 2-4, D-53123 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/
Tel: +49 228 54881-0 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235
HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander
Steeg


From nobody Mon Aug 24 09:00:06 2015
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Subject: Re: [scim] Question about Filtering in SCIM Spec
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User 3.=20

In this respect, the behavior would be similar to ldap and multi values.=20

Phil

> On Aug 24, 2015, at 08:46, Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de> wrote:
>=20
> Hello Phil,
>=20
> thank you for your reply. It seems as if I could not make my question
> clear enough.
>=20
> We are trying to implement the SCIM spec and are not clear on what it
> says about this specific case.
>=20
> Quote from Page 22, first paragraph,
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-22
>> the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute
> match the specified criterion
>=20
> Definition of the "not" operator,
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-19:
>> The filter is a match if the expression evaluates to false.
>=20
> To what "match" from section 3 does the "not" apply?
>=20
> Case 1:
>=20
> The "not" is related to the first "match", so 'not (expression)' means:
> "the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values of the specified
> attribute match the specified criterion".
>=20
> Case 2:
>=20
> The "not" is related to the second "match", so 'not (expression)' means:
> "the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute
> don't match the specified criterion".
>=20
> To illustrate my question, please consider the following example:
>=20
> User 1
> Groups: A, B, C
>=20
> User 2
> Groups: B
>=20
> User 3
> Groups: A, C
>=20
> When I query "Group eq 'B'", the result is User 1 and User 2, which is
> perfectly fine and conforms to the spec.
>=20
> But when I query "not(Group eq 'B')", what should be the actual the result=
?
>=20
> Case 1: "the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values of the
> specified attribute match the specified criterion"
>=20
> The result would be only User 3, because all others have an attribute
> that contains "B".
>=20
> Case 2: "the filter matches if any of the values of the specified
> attribute don't match the specified criterion"
>=20
> The result would be User 1 and User 3, because each of them has at least
> one attribute that doesn't contain "B". Compare this with the following
> table, that shows the data in some kind of relational structure:
>=20
> User | Group | eq | not(eq)
> -----+-------+----+--------
>  1  |   A   | -  |  +
>  1  |   B   | +  |  -
>  1  |   C   | -  |  +
>  2  |   B   | +  |  -
>  3  |   A   | -  |  +
>  3  |   C   | -  |  +
>=20
> * User 1 matches, because it has at least on "+" in the last column
> * User 2 doesn't match, because all values in the last column are "-"
> * User 3 matches again, because it has at least on "+" in the last column
>=20
> My question is: What is the correct interpretation of the "not" operator
> in the context of a multi-valued attribute according to the spec?
>=20
> Best regards,
> Florian Wilhelm
>=20
>=20
>> Am 19.08.2015 um 19:02 schrieb Phil Hunt:
>> Florian=E2=80=A6
>>=20
>> You=E2=80=99ve managed to hit on a couple of oddities that go back to SCI=
M 1 (I think).
>>=20
>> For the query against the Groups resource, try:
>>=20
>> not(members.value eq =E2=80=9C<userid>=E2=80=9D)
>>=20
>> =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D is a complex attribute and thus the comparison a=
ttribute is value.  Some SCIM systems may accept this, but it was never actu=
ally defined in the specs that =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D could be assumed to b=
e the default comparison sub-attribute for a complex attribute. I just learn=
ed this myself a couple of weeks ago.  :-)
>>=20
>> Regarding querying against members (of the User resource):
>> Because the specification indicates the =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D attribu=
te mutability is =E2=80=9CreadOnly=E2=80=9D many implementations will only c=
alculate its contents when returning the user resource and thus members is l=
ikely not indexed.=20
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com
>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>=20
>>> On Aug 19, 2015, at 2:17 AM, Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de> wrote=
:
>>>=20
>>> Hello,
>>>=20
>>> I'm working on the osiam.org project, which implements SCIMv2. We have
>>> an issue [1] in our project. I'm not quite sure if that is specified by
>>> the SCIM spec.
>>>=20
>>> Our user wants to filter
>>>   not(groups eq "<groupId>")
>>> [Expected result: All users that are not included in a given group]
>>>=20
>>> and
>>>=20
>>>   not(members eq "<userId>")
>>> [Expected result: All groups in which is the user not a member]
>>>=20
>>> Our current implementation does not deliver the expected results.
>>> My question: Is this defined in the SCIM spec? I've read [2], but did
>>> not find anything about that there.
>>> If it is valid: What would be the expected result? What does not() on
>>> groups or members mean?
>>>=20
>>> Best regards,
>>> Florian Wilhelm
>>>=20
>>> [1] https://github.com/osiam/resource-server/issues/7
>>> [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#section-3.4.2.2
>>>=20
>>> --=20
>>> Florian Wilhelm
>>> Software Development
>>>=20
>>> tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
>>> Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
>>> Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495
>>>=20
>>> Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
>>> Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235
>>> HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
>>> Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, A=
lexander
>>> Steeg
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> scim mailing list
>>> scim@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim
>=20
> --=20
> Florian Wilhelm
> Softwareentwicklung
>=20
> tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
> Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
> Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495
>=20
> Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
> Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235
> HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
> Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Al=
exander
> Steeg


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From: Thomas Krille <t.krille@tarent.de>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:53:48 +0200
Message-ID: <CAO89xFE+92TzsLde8rAiK14Pzw1G3VtaTB3138VF7pMmg_amFw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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Cc: Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de>, "scim@ietf.org" <scim@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [scim] Question about Filtering in SCIM Spec
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Hello Phil,

I assume, that this is also true for all other comparison operators and all
other multi-valued attributes?

Regards

Thomas Krille

2015-08-24 17:59 GMT+02:00 Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>:

> User 3.
>
> In this respect, the behavior would be similar to ldap and multi values.
>
> Phil
>
> > On Aug 24, 2015, at 08:46, Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Phil,
> >
> > thank you for your reply. It seems as if I could not make my question
> > clear enough.
> >
> > We are trying to implement the SCIM spec and are not clear on what it
> > says about this specific case.
> >
> > Quote from Page 22, first paragraph,
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-22
> >> the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute
> > match the specified criterion
> >
> > Definition of the "not" operator,
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-19:
> >> The filter is a match if the expression evaluates to false.
> >
> > To what "match" from section 3 does the "not" apply?
> >
> > Case 1:
> >
> > The "not" is related to the first "match", so 'not (expression)' means:
> > "the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values of the specifie=
d
> > attribute match the specified criterion".
> >
> > Case 2:
> >
> > The "not" is related to the second "match", so 'not (expression)' means=
:
> > "the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute
> > don't match the specified criterion".
> >
> > To illustrate my question, please consider the following example:
> >
> > User 1
> > Groups: A, B, C
> >
> > User 2
> > Groups: B
> >
> > User 3
> > Groups: A, C
> >
> > When I query "Group eq 'B'", the result is User 1 and User 2, which is
> > perfectly fine and conforms to the spec.
> >
> > But when I query "not(Group eq 'B')", what should be the actual the
> result?
> >
> > Case 1: "the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values of the
> > specified attribute match the specified criterion"
> >
> > The result would be only User 3, because all others have an attribute
> > that contains "B".
> >
> > Case 2: "the filter matches if any of the values of the specified
> > attribute don't match the specified criterion"
> >
> > The result would be User 1 and User 3, because each of them has at leas=
t
> > one attribute that doesn't contain "B". Compare this with the following
> > table, that shows the data in some kind of relational structure:
> >
> > User | Group | eq | not(eq)
> > -----+-------+----+--------
> >  1  |   A   | -  |  +
> >  1  |   B   | +  |  -
> >  1  |   C   | -  |  +
> >  2  |   B   | +  |  -
> >  3  |   A   | -  |  +
> >  3  |   C   | -  |  +
> >
> > * User 1 matches, because it has at least on "+" in the last column
> > * User 2 doesn't match, because all values in the last column are "-"
> > * User 3 matches again, because it has at least on "+" in the last colu=
mn
> >
> > My question is: What is the correct interpretation of the "not" operato=
r
> > in the context of a multi-valued attribute according to the spec?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Florian Wilhelm
> >
> >
> >> Am 19.08.2015 um 19:02 schrieb Phil Hunt:
> >> Florian=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >> You=E2=80=99ve managed to hit on a couple of oddities that go back to =
SCIM 1 (I
> think).
> >>
> >> For the query against the Groups resource, try:
> >>
> >> not(members.value eq =E2=80=9C<userid>=E2=80=9D)
> >>
> >> =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D is a complex attribute and thus the comparis=
on attribute is
> value.  Some SCIM systems may accept this, but it was never actually
> defined in the specs that =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D could be assumed to be =
the default
> comparison sub-attribute for a complex attribute. I just learned this
> myself a couple of weeks ago.  :-)
> >>
> >> Regarding querying against members (of the User resource):
> >> Because the specification indicates the =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D attr=
ibute mutability
> is =E2=80=9CreadOnly=E2=80=9D many implementations will only calculate it=
s contents when
> returning the user resource and thus members is likely not indexed.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >> @independentid
> >> www.independentid.com
> >> phil.hunt@oracle.com
> >>
> >>> On Aug 19, 2015, at 2:17 AM, Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I'm working on the osiam.org project, which implements SCIMv2. We hav=
e
> >>> an issue [1] in our project. I'm not quite sure if that is specified =
by
> >>> the SCIM spec.
> >>>
> >>> Our user wants to filter
> >>>   not(groups eq "<groupId>")
> >>> [Expected result: All users that are not included in a given group]
> >>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>>   not(members eq "<userId>")
> >>> [Expected result: All groups in which is the user not a member]
> >>>
> >>> Our current implementation does not deliver the expected results.
> >>> My question: Is this defined in the SCIM spec? I've read [2], but did
> >>> not find anything about that there.
> >>> If it is valid: What would be the expected result? What does not() on
> >>> groups or members mean?
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Florian Wilhelm
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://github.com/osiam/resource-server/issues/7
> >>> [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#section-3.4.2.=
2
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Florian Wilhelm
> >>> Software Development
> >>>
> >>> tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
> >>> Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
> >>> Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495
> >>>
> >>> Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
> >>> Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235
> >>> HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
> >>> Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esse=
r, Alexander
> >>> Steeg
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> scim mailing list
> >>> scim@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim
> >
> > --
> > Florian Wilhelm
> > Softwareentwicklung
> >
> > tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
> > Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
> > Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495
> >
> > Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
> > Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235
> > HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
> > Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser,=
 Alexander
> > Steeg
>
> _______________________________________________
> scim mailing list
> scim@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim
>



--=20
Thomas Krille
Softwareentwicklung
tarent solutions GmbH

Telefon +49 (0) 30 555785-128
Telefax +49 (0) 228 54881-235
t.krille@tarent.de

Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235
HRB AG Bonn 5168 =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Ale=
xander
Steeg

--089e0149bc2cba4961051e1ee0a0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello Phil,<div><br></div><div>I assume, that this is also=
 true for all other comparison operators and all other multi-valued attribu=
tes?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div><br></div><div>Thomas Krill=
e</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2015-08-24=
 17:59 GMT+02:00 Phil Hunt <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phil.hun=
t@oracle.com" target=3D"_blank">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">User 3.<br>
<br>
In this respect, the behavior would be similar to ldap and multi values.<br=
>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Phil<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
&gt; On Aug 24, 2015, at 08:46, Florian Wilhelm &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:f.wil=
helm@tarent.de" target=3D"_blank">f.wilhelm@tarent.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hello Phil,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; thank you for your reply. It seems as if I could not make my question<=
br>
&gt; clear enough.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We are trying to implement the SCIM spec and are not clear on what it<=
br>
&gt; says about this specific case.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Quote from Page 22, first paragraph,<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-22"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iet=
f-scim-api-19#page-22</a><br>
&gt;&gt; the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute=
<br>
&gt; match the specified criterion<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Definition of the &quot;not&quot; operator,<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-19"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iet=
f-scim-api-19#page-19</a>:<br>
&gt;&gt; The filter is a match if the expression evaluates to false.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; To what &quot;match&quot; from section 3 does the &quot;not&quot; appl=
y?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Case 1:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The &quot;not&quot; is related to the first &quot;match&quot;, so &#39=
;not (expression)&#39; means:<br>
&gt; &quot;the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values of the sp=
ecified<br>
&gt; attribute match the specified criterion&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Case 2:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The &quot;not&quot; is related to the second &quot;match&quot;, so &#3=
9;not (expression)&#39; means:<br>
&gt; &quot;the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribu=
te<br>
&gt; don&#39;t match the specified criterion&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; To illustrate my question, please consider the following example:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; User 1<br>
&gt; Groups: A, B, C<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; User 2<br>
&gt; Groups: B<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; User 3<br>
&gt; Groups: A, C<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; When I query &quot;Group eq &#39;B&#39;&quot;, the result is User 1 an=
d User 2, which is<br>
&gt; perfectly fine and conforms to the spec.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; But when I query &quot;not(Group eq &#39;B&#39;)&quot;, what should be=
 the actual the result?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Case 1: &quot;the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values o=
f the<br>
&gt; specified attribute match the specified criterion&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The result would be only User 3, because all others have an attribute<=
br>
&gt; that contains &quot;B&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Case 2: &quot;the filter matches if any of the values of the specified=
<br>
&gt; attribute don&#39;t match the specified criterion&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The result would be User 1 and User 3, because each of them has at lea=
st<br>
&gt; one attribute that doesn&#39;t contain &quot;B&quot;. Compare this wit=
h the following<br>
&gt; table, that shows the data in some kind of relational structure:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; User | Group | eq | not(eq)<br>
&gt; -----+-------+----+--------<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 1=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0| -=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 1=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0B=C2=A0 =C2=A0| +=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 -<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 1=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0C=C2=A0 =C2=A0| -=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 2=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0B=C2=A0 =C2=A0| +=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 -<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 3=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0| -=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 3=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0C=C2=A0 =C2=A0| -=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * User 1 matches, because it has at least on &quot;+&quot; in the last=
 column<br>
&gt; * User 2 doesn&#39;t match, because all values in the last column are =
&quot;-&quot;<br>
&gt; * User 3 matches again, because it has at least on &quot;+&quot; in th=
e last column<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; My question is: What is the correct interpretation of the &quot;not&qu=
ot; operator<br>
&gt; in the context of a multi-valued attribute according to the spec?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best regards,<br>
&gt; Florian Wilhelm<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Am 19.08.2015 um 19:02 schrieb Phil Hunt:<br>
&gt;&gt; Florian=E2=80=A6<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; You=E2=80=99ve managed to hit on a couple of oddities that go back=
 to SCIM 1 (I think).<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; For the query against the Groups resource, try:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; not(members.value eq =E2=80=9C&lt;userid&gt;=E2=80=9D)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D is a complex attribute and thus the comp=
arison attribute is value.=C2=A0 Some SCIM systems may accept this, but it =
was never actually defined in the specs that =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D could =
be assumed to be the default comparison sub-attribute for a complex attribu=
te. I just learned this myself a couple of weeks ago.=C2=A0 :-)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Regarding querying against members (of the User resource):<br>
&gt;&gt; Because the specification indicates the =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D =
attribute mutability is =E2=80=9CreadOnly=E2=80=9D many implementations wil=
l only calculate its contents when returning the user resource and thus mem=
bers is likely not indexed.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Phil<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; @independentid<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.independentid.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">www.independentid.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" target=3D"_blank">phil.hun=
t@oracle.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Aug 19, 2015, at 2:17 AM, Florian Wilhelm &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:f.wilhelm@tarent.de" target=3D"_blank">f.wilhelm@tarent.de</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I&#39;m working on the <a href=3D"http://osiam.org" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">osiam.org</a> project, which implements SCIMv2. =
We have<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; an issue [1] in our project. I&#39;m not quite sure if that is=
 specified by<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; the SCIM spec.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Our user wants to filter<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0not(groups eq &quot;&lt;groupId&gt;&quot;)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; [Expected result: All users that are not included in a given g=
roup]<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0not(members eq &quot;&lt;userId&gt;&quot;)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; [Expected result: All groups in which is the user not a member=
]<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Our current implementation does not deliver the expected resul=
ts.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; My question: Is this defined in the SCIM spec? I&#39;ve read [=
2], but did<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; not find anything about that there.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; If it is valid: What would be the expected result? What does n=
ot() on<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; groups or members mean?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Best regards,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Florian Wilhelm<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; [1] <a href=3D"https://github.com/osiam/resource-server/issues=
/7" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/osiam/resource-=
server/issues/7</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; [2] <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api=
-19#section-3.4.2.2" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#section-3.4.2.2</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Florian Wilhelm<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Software Development<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http:/=
/www.tarent.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de/=
</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http:=
//www.tarent.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de=
/</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Bor=
is Esser, Alexander<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Steeg<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; scim mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">scim@ietf.o=
rg</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim" rel=3D"=
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim</a=
><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Florian Wilhelm<br>
&gt; Softwareentwicklung<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin<br>
&gt; Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://www.tar=
ent.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de/</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://www.ta=
rent.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de/</a><br=
>
&gt; Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235<br>
&gt; HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941<br>
&gt; Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser=
, Alexander<br>
&gt; Steeg<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
scim mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">scim@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thomas Kr=
ille<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Softwareentwicklung<br>tarent solutions GmbH=
<br><br>Telefon +49 (0) 30 555785-128<br>Telefax +49 (0) 228 54881-235<br><=
a href=3D"mailto:t.krille@tarent.de" target=3D"_blank">t.krille@tarent.de</=
a><br><br>Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://w=
ww.tarent.de/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de/</a><br>Tel: +49 228 =
54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235<br>HRB AG Bonn 5168 =E2=80=A2 USt-=
ID (VAT): DE122264941<br>Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai E=
benrett, Boris Esser, Alexander Steeg</div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>

--089e0149bc2cba4961051e1ee0a0--


From nobody Tue Aug 25 04:02:27 2015
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Cc: Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de>, "scim@ietf.org" <scim@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [scim] Question about Filtering in SCIM Spec
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If the attrib is indexed, yes.=20

Phil

> On Aug 25, 2015, at 01:53, Thomas Krille <t.krille@tarent.de> wrote:
>=20
> Hello Phil,
>=20
> I assume, that this is also true for all other comparison operators and al=
l other multi-valued attributes?
>=20
> Regards
>=20
> Thomas Krille
>=20
> 2015-08-24 17:59 GMT+02:00 Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>:
>> User 3.
>>=20
>> In this respect, the behavior would be similar to ldap and multi values.
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> > On Aug 24, 2015, at 08:46, Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de> wrote:=

>> >
>> > Hello Phil,
>> >
>> > thank you for your reply. It seems as if I could not make my question
>> > clear enough.
>> >
>> > We are trying to implement the SCIM spec and are not clear on what it
>> > says about this specific case.
>> >
>> > Quote from Page 22, first paragraph,
>> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-22
>> >> the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute
>> > match the specified criterion
>> >
>> > Definition of the "not" operator,
>> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-19:
>> >> The filter is a match if the expression evaluates to false.
>> >
>> > To what "match" from section 3 does the "not" apply?
>> >
>> > Case 1:
>> >
>> > The "not" is related to the first "match", so 'not (expression)' means:=

>> > "the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values of the specifie=
d
>> > attribute match the specified criterion".
>> >
>> > Case 2:
>> >
>> > The "not" is related to the second "match", so 'not (expression)' means=
:
>> > "the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute
>> > don't match the specified criterion".
>> >
>> > To illustrate my question, please consider the following example:
>> >
>> > User 1
>> > Groups: A, B, C
>> >
>> > User 2
>> > Groups: B
>> >
>> > User 3
>> > Groups: A, C
>> >
>> > When I query "Group eq 'B'", the result is User 1 and User 2, which is
>> > perfectly fine and conforms to the spec.
>> >
>> > But when I query "not(Group eq 'B')", what should be the actual the res=
ult?
>> >
>> > Case 1: "the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values of the
>> > specified attribute match the specified criterion"
>> >
>> > The result would be only User 3, because all others have an attribute
>> > that contains "B".
>> >
>> > Case 2: "the filter matches if any of the values of the specified
>> > attribute don't match the specified criterion"
>> >
>> > The result would be User 1 and User 3, because each of them has at leas=
t
>> > one attribute that doesn't contain "B". Compare this with the following=

>> > table, that shows the data in some kind of relational structure:
>> >
>> > User | Group | eq | not(eq)
>> > -----+-------+----+--------
>> >  1  |   A   | -  |  +
>> >  1  |   B   | +  |  -
>> >  1  |   C   | -  |  +
>> >  2  |   B   | +  |  -
>> >  3  |   A   | -  |  +
>> >  3  |   C   | -  |  +
>> >
>> > * User 1 matches, because it has at least on "+" in the last column
>> > * User 2 doesn't match, because all values in the last column are "-"
>> > * User 3 matches again, because it has at least on "+" in the last colu=
mn
>> >
>> > My question is: What is the correct interpretation of the "not" operato=
r
>> > in the context of a multi-valued attribute according to the spec?
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Florian Wilhelm
>> >
>> >
>> >> Am 19.08.2015 um 19:02 schrieb Phil Hunt:
>> >> Florian=E2=80=A6
>> >>
>> >> You=E2=80=99ve managed to hit on a couple of oddities that go back to S=
CIM 1 (I think).
>> >>
>> >> For the query against the Groups resource, try:
>> >>
>> >> not(members.value eq =E2=80=9C<userid>=E2=80=9D)
>> >>
>> >> =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D is a complex attribute and thus the comparis=
on attribute is value.  Some SCIM systems may accept this, but it was never a=
ctually defined in the specs that =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D could be assumed t=
o be the default comparison sub-attribute for a complex attribute. I just le=
arned this myself a couple of weeks ago.  :-)
>> >>
>> >> Regarding querying against members (of the User resource):
>> >> Because the specification indicates the =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D attr=
ibute mutability is =E2=80=9CreadOnly=E2=80=9D many implementations will onl=
y calculate its contents when returning the user resource and thus members i=
s likely not indexed.
>> >>
>> >> Phil
>> >>
>> >> @independentid
>> >> www.independentid.com
>> >> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>> >>
>> >>> On Aug 19, 2015, at 2:17 AM, Florian Wilhelm <f.wilhelm@tarent.de> wr=
ote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hello,
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm working on the osiam.org project, which implements SCIMv2. We hav=
e
>> >>> an issue [1] in our project. I'm not quite sure if that is specified b=
y
>> >>> the SCIM spec.
>> >>>
>> >>> Our user wants to filter
>> >>>   not(groups eq "<groupId>")
>> >>> [Expected result: All users that are not included in a given group]
>> >>>
>> >>> and
>> >>>
>> >>>   not(members eq "<userId>")
>> >>> [Expected result: All groups in which is the user not a member]
>> >>>
>> >>> Our current implementation does not deliver the expected results.
>> >>> My question: Is this defined in the SCIM spec? I've read [2], but did=

>> >>> not find anything about that there.
>> >>> If it is valid: What would be the expected result? What does not() on=

>> >>> groups or members mean?
>> >>>
>> >>> Best regards,
>> >>> Florian Wilhelm
>> >>>
>> >>> [1] https://github.com/osiam/resource-server/issues/7
>> >>> [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#section-3.4.2.=
2
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Florian Wilhelm
>> >>> Software Development
>> >>>
>> >>> tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
>> >>> Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
>> >>> Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495
>> >>>
>> >>> Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
>> >>> Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235
>> >>> HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
>> >>> Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esse=
r, Alexander
>> >>> Steeg
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> scim mailing list
>> >>> scim@ietf.org
>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim
>> >
>> > --
>> > Florian Wilhelm
>> > Softwareentwicklung
>> >
>> > tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin
>> > Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
>> > Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495
>> >
>> > Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
>> > Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235
>> > HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
>> > Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser,=
 Alexander
>> > Steeg
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> scim mailing list
>> scim@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Thomas Krille
> Softwareentwicklung
> tarent solutions GmbH
>=20
> Telefon +49 (0) 30 555785-128
> Telefax +49 (0) 228 54881-235
> t.krille@tarent.de
>=20
> Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 http://www.tarent.de/
> Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235
> HRB AG Bonn 5168 =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941
> Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Al=
exander Steeg
> _______________________________________________
> scim mailing list
> scim@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>If the attrib is indexed, yes.&nbsp;<b=
r><br>Phil</div><div><br>On Aug 25, 2015, at 01:53, Thomas Krille &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:t.krille@tarent.de">t.krille@tarent.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></d=
iv><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hello Phil,<div><br></div=
><div>I assume, that this is also true for all other comparison operators an=
d all other multi-valued attributes?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><=
div><br></div><div>Thomas Krille</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote">2015-08-24 17:59 GMT+02:00 Phil Hunt <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" target=3D"_blank">phil.hunt@oracl=
e.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">User 3.<br>
<br>
In this respect, the behavior would be similar to ldap and multi values.<br>=

<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Phil<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
&gt; On Aug 24, 2015, at 08:46, Florian Wilhelm &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:f.wilh=
elm@tarent.de" target=3D"_blank">f.wilhelm@tarent.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hello Phil,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; thank you for your reply. It seems as if I could not make my question<b=
r>
&gt; clear enough.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We are trying to implement the SCIM spec and are not clear on what it<b=
r>
&gt; says about this specific case.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Quote from Page 22, first paragraph,<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-22" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-s=
cim-api-19#page-22</a><br>
&gt;&gt; the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute<=
br>
&gt; match the specified criterion<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Definition of the "not" operator,<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#page-19" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-s=
cim-api-19#page-19</a>:<br>
&gt;&gt; The filter is a match if the expression evaluates to false.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; To what "match" from section 3 does the "not" apply?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Case 1:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The "not" is related to the first "match", so 'not (expression)' means:=
<br>
&gt; "the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values of the specifie=
d<br>
&gt; attribute match the specified criterion".<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Case 2:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The "not" is related to the second "match", so 'not (expression)' means=
:<br>
&gt; "the filter matches if any of the values of the specified attribute<br>=

&gt; don't match the specified criterion".<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; To illustrate my question, please consider the following example:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; User 1<br>
&gt; Groups: A, B, C<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; User 2<br>
&gt; Groups: B<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; User 3<br>
&gt; Groups: A, C<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; When I query "Group eq 'B'", the result is User 1 and User 2, which is<=
br>
&gt; perfectly fine and conforms to the spec.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; But when I query "not(Group eq 'B')", what should be the actual the res=
ult?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Case 1: "the filter matches if not any (=3D none) of the values of the<=
br>
&gt; specified attribute match the specified criterion"<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The result would be only User 3, because all others have an attribute<b=
r>
&gt; that contains "B".<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Case 2: "the filter matches if any of the values of the specified<br>
&gt; attribute don't match the specified criterion"<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The result would be User 1 and User 3, because each of them has at leas=
t<br>
&gt; one attribute that doesn't contain "B". Compare this with the following=
<br>
&gt; table, that shows the data in some kind of relational structure:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; User | Group | eq | not(eq)<br>
&gt; -----+-------+----+--------<br>
&gt;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp;A&nbsp; &nbsp;| -&nbsp; |&nbsp; +<br>
&gt;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp;B&nbsp; &nbsp;| +&nbsp; |&nbsp; -<br>
&gt;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp;C&nbsp; &nbsp;| -&nbsp; |&nbsp; +<br>
&gt;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp;B&nbsp; &nbsp;| +&nbsp; |&nbsp; -<br>
&gt;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp;A&nbsp; &nbsp;| -&nbsp; |&nbsp; +<br>
&gt;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp;C&nbsp; &nbsp;| -&nbsp; |&nbsp; +<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * User 1 matches, because it has at least on "+" in the last column<br>=

&gt; * User 2 doesn't match, because all values in the last column are "-"<b=
r>
&gt; * User 3 matches again, because it has at least on "+" in the last colu=
mn<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; My question is: What is the correct interpretation of the "not" operato=
r<br>
&gt; in the context of a multi-valued attribute according to the spec?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best regards,<br>
&gt; Florian Wilhelm<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Am 19.08.2015 um 19:02 schrieb Phil Hunt:<br>
&gt;&gt; Florian=E2=80=A6<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; You=E2=80=99ve managed to hit on a couple of oddities that go back t=
o SCIM 1 (I think).<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; For the query against the Groups resource, try:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; not(members.value eq =E2=80=9C&lt;userid&gt;=E2=80=9D)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D is a complex attribute and thus the compa=
rison attribute is value.&nbsp; Some SCIM systems may accept this, but it wa=
s never actually defined in the specs that =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D could be a=
ssumed to be the default comparison sub-attribute for a complex attribute. I=
 just learned this myself a couple of weeks ago.&nbsp; :-)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Regarding querying against members (of the User resource):<br>
&gt;&gt; Because the specification indicates the =E2=80=9Cmembers=E2=80=9D a=
ttribute mutability is =E2=80=9CreadOnly=E2=80=9D many implementations will o=
nly calculate its contents when returning the user resource and thus members=
 is likely not indexed.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Phil<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; @independentid<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.independentid.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">www.independentid.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" target=3D"_blank">phil.hunt=
@oracle.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Aug 19, 2015, at 2:17 AM, Florian Wilhelm &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:f.wilhelm@tarent.de" target=3D"_blank">f.wilhelm@tarent.de</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm working on the <a href=3D"http://osiam.org" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">osiam.org</a> project, which implements SCIMv2. We hav=
e<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; an issue [1] in our project. I'm not quite sure if that is spec=
ified by<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; the SCIM spec.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Our user wants to filter<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;not(groups eq "&lt;groupId&gt;")<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; [Expected result: All users that are not included in a given gr=
oup]<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;not(members eq "&lt;userId&gt;")<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; [Expected result: All groups in which is the user not a member]=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Our current implementation does not deliver the expected result=
s.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; My question: Is this defined in the SCIM spec? I've read [2], b=
ut did<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; not find anything about that there.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; If it is valid: What would be the expected result? What does no=
t() on<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; groups or members mean?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Best regards,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Florian Wilhelm<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; [1] <a href=3D"https://github.com/osiam/resource-server/issues/=
7" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/osiam/resource-se=
rver/issues/7</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; [2] <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-=
19#section-3.4.2.2" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.=
org/html/draft-ietf-scim-api-19#section-3.4.2.2</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Florian Wilhelm<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Software Development<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://=
www.tarent.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de/</=
a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http:/=
/www.tarent.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de/<=
/a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Bori=
s Esser, Alexander<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Steeg<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; scim mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:scim@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">scim@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim</a><=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Florian Wilhelm<br>
&gt; Softwareentwicklung<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; tarent solutions GmbH Niederlassung Berlin<br>
&gt; Voltastra=C3=9Fe 5, D-13355 Berlin =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://www.tare=
nt.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de/</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +49 30 138803-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 30 56829495<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://www.tar=
ent.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de/</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +49 228 54881-0 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235<br>
&gt; HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941<br>
&gt; Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser,=
 Alexander<br>
&gt; Steeg<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thomas Kril=
le<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Softwareentwicklung<br>tarent solutions GmbH<br=
><br>Telefon +49 (0) 30 555785-128<br>Telefax +49 (0) 228 54881-235<br><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:t.krille@tarent.de" target=3D"_blank">t.krille@tarent.de</a><br=
><br>Rochusstra=C3=9Fe 2-4, D-53123 Bonn =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://www.tar=
ent.de/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tarent.de/</a><br>Tel: +49 228 54881-0=
 =E2=80=A2 Fax: +49 228 54881-235<br>HRB AG Bonn 5168 =E2=80=A2 USt-ID (VAT)=
: DE122264941<br>Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, B=
oris Esser, Alexander Steeg</div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>
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