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X-BeenThere: scim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Simple Cloud Identity Management BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 13:48:54 -0000 --_000_CH2PR02MB6262CC3CFC89A33627077A70C9C60CH2PR02MB6262namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When SCIM resources are represented as JSON objects, the specification is p= retty clear that arbitrary fields are allowed in the top-level JSON object = but a question has come up related to arbitrary fields within complex objec= ts. We need additional information in the SCIM Address type and would rath= er embed the attributes than reference extension data. Thanks, Steve --_000_CH2PR02MB6262CC3CFC89A33627077A70C9C60CH2PR02MB6262namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
When SCIM resources are represented as JSON objects, the specification is p= retty clear that arbitrary fields are allowed in the top-level JSON object = but a question has come up related to arbitrary fields within complex objec= ts.  We need additional information in the SCIM Address type and would rather embed the attributes than refere= nce extension data.

Thanks,  Steve
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[2001:569:7a71:1d00:35a8:9797:5fd:6d7c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f129sm4258821pfb.190.2020.04.02.12.01.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Apr 2020 12:01:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Phillip Hunt Message-Id: <5A8DDA9A-05D0-4D46-BD87-2CA3C39922B3@independentid.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_051DFE04-7A0B-495D-8215-43224705A34E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 12:01:00 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "scim@ietf.org" To: "Moyer, Steven William" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [scim] Where are arbitrary fields allowed in a SCIM resource? X-BeenThere: scim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Simple Cloud Identity Management BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 19:01:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_051DFE04-7A0B-495D-8215-43224705A34E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Steve, It is unfortunate, but extending sub-attributes of CMVAs is still on the = grouops *wish* list and has not been addressed - its been challenging to = get a new SCIM charter moving forward at the IETF. Especially hard now = with the current situation. In practice, I suspect many just go ahead and modify the standardized = objects and publish it to the schemas endpoint. In a =E2=80=9Crobust=E2=80= =9D design, you must expect that many clients or SPs may choose to = ignore attributes and sub-attributes they do not care about. This kind = of behaviour is throughout the spec such as with how attribute = mutability is handled during a PUT operation. With that said, there are many within IETF who are starting to argue = against =E2=80=9Crobust" design. We in the world of IDM often have to = deal with schema impedance mis-matches all the time. If you ever worked = on X.500 of LDAP, you know what I mean. Also, I find RESTful style=E2=80=99= s lack of formalization opens up a number of edge cases for which SCIM = has only scratched the surface. ROBUSTness (take what you understand and = ignore the rest) seems to be the only pragmatic response to the = informality of RESTful design.=20 Hope this helps. Cheers, Phil Hunt @independentid phil.hunt@independentid.com > On Apr 2, 2020, at 6:48 AM, Moyer, Steven William = wrote: >=20 > When SCIM resources are represented as JSON objects, the specification = is pretty clear that arbitrary fields are allowed in the top-level JSON = object but a question has come up related to arbitrary fields within = complex objects. We need additional information in the SCIM Address = type and would rather embed the attributes than reference extension = data. >=20 > Thanks, Steve > _______________________________________________ > scim mailing list > scim@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim = --Apple-Mail=_051DFE04-7A0B-495D-8215-43224705A34E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Steve,

It = is unfortunate, but extending sub-attributes of CMVAs is still on the = grouops *wish* list and has not been addressed - its been challenging to = get a new SCIM charter moving forward at the IETF.  Especially hard = now with the current situation.

In practice, I suspect many just go = ahead and modify the standardized objects and publish it to the schemas = endpoint. In a =E2=80=9Crobust=E2=80=9D design, you must expect that = many clients or SPs may choose to ignore attributes and sub-attributes = they do not care about. This kind of behaviour is throughout the spec = such as with how attribute mutability is handled during a PUT = operation.

With = that said, there are many within IETF who are starting to argue against = =E2=80=9Crobust" design.  We in the world of IDM often have to deal = with schema impedance mis-matches all the time. If you ever worked on = X.500 of LDAP, you know what I mean. Also, I find RESTful style=E2=80=99s = lack of formalization opens up a number of edge cases for which SCIM has = only scratched the surface. ROBUSTness (take what you understand and = ignore the rest) seems to be the only pragmatic response to the = informality of RESTful design. 

Hope this helps.
Cheers,

Phil Hunt
@independentid



On Apr 2, 2020, at 6:48 AM, Moyer, Steven William <smoyer@psu.edu> = wrote:

When SCIM resources are represented as JSON objects, the = specification is pretty clear that arbitrary fields are allowed in the = top-level JSON object but a question has come up related to arbitrary = fields within complex objects.  We need additional information in = the SCIM Address type and would rather embed the attributes than = reference extension data.

Thanks,  Steve
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