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A > tighter standard would avoid such things. I have already fixed this issue in Solaris' 1-1 style socket. It is now always 0 in all notifications. > However, it is mostly a matter of taste, and I'm just expressing my > humble opinion -- rather make it easy for API users than overly > flexible API implementors. Note that this is not about flexibility. The sctp_assoc_id is defined for 1-N style socket. If an implementation chooses to support only 1-1 style socket, there is really no point of having the sctp_assoc_id at all. It is a bad design of the spec if it requires 1-1 style socket to have sctp_assoc_id defined uniquely for each socket... > The standard answer for those that do not want to change is "it *is* > easy to use, it is just your code that sucks" (with a slightly > different wording), but I think that in most cases it is rather easy to > come to a settlement of what behaviour that really is the easier for > the API user. However, if a current 'less-easy' behaviour is "good > enough" or not is indeed a matter of opinion. > > My opinion is that the current Linux/BSD use of assoc id is indeed > simpler than the one in Solaris, and I think it is worth making the > standard specify assoc id behaviour in more detail to secure consistent > and easy-to-use behaviour on all platforms. I don't have a problem requiring the sctp_assoc_id to be filled in with a fixed value, say 0, for 1-1 style socket. But requiring each 1-1 style socket to have an unique sctp_assoc_id is bad. I guess the whole issue comes from sctp_peel_off(). As I said, I strongly recommend app writer not to mix the two different SCTP socket styles. If an app really needs 1-1 style socket, it may as well just use 1-1 style socket only. It can do all the things 1-N style can do. -- K. 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Anders: I agree with you completely.. but I have one comment and then a summary: First the comment.. we are not making a standard here.. the socket-api will be, when finished, an informational RFC.. so its NOT a standard. To get it to be a standard I think it would have to be sent to POSIX or one of those types of orgs :-D Now So far I have seen: Against having assoc-id for one-2-one style: Kacheong Poon For having one-2-one style have an assoc-id Anders Toger Qiaobing Xie Shridhar (I am assuming here since he implemented it that way) Peter Lei (same assumption above) Randall Stewart --------------------------------- Others that have NOT voiced an opinion.. please do so.. For those that I may have mis-interpreted.. speak up and say so.. At the "end" of the voting process we will change the document one way or another.. R -- Randall Stewart ITD - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 815-342-5222 (cell) ------------=_1118351967-8855-0-- From rrs@cisco.com Thu Jun 9 17:29:10 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21617 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DgUvv-0007YW-DU for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 17:51:28 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jun 2005 14:29:02 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,187,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="642463636:sNHT51366832" Received: from nailgun.cisco.com (nailgun.cisco.com [171.69.11.147]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j59LSals021540; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nailscatch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nailgun.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id j59LOanJ008943 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200506092124.j59LOanJ008943@nailgun.cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------=_1118352275-8941-0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: NAILS X-Brought-To-You-BY: djohnsen, stharms, Enterprise Messaging, and the letter "E" Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Sockets API suggestion concerning sctp_assoc_t List-Id: sctp-impl To: Randall Stewart From: Randall Stewart Cc: Anders Torger , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors X-Nails-Approved: rrs@cisco.com Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 17:29:50 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f66b12316365a3fe519e75911daf28a8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1118352275-8941-0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Ahh.. I bounced too. by NOT including external.cisco.com.. So never mind.. but I do want this to post so here it is :-D R Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders: > > Not sure why this bounced.. I aplogize... and if > you off-line forward a copy to me (of the bounce) I > will take it up with IT.. > > > > Anders Torger wrote: > >> (my mails to sctp-impl is bouncing) >> >> On Thursday 09 June 2005 17.22, you wrote: >> >>> Note that this is not about flexibility. The sctp_assoc_id is >>> defined for 1-N style socket. If an implementation chooses to >>> support only 1-1 style socket, there is really no point of >>> having the sctp_assoc_id at all. It is a bad design of the spec >>> if it requires 1-1 style socket to have sctp_assoc_id defined >>> uniquely for each socket... >> >> >> >> There is one point as I see it - porting of code is simpler. Sure, it >> may be strange to use assoc id instead of fd for 1-1 sockets, but I >> don't think the API should decide that for the user. Requiring the API >> to provide an association id regardless of the type of socket is nice >> clean design, I think. Should the implementation only support 1-1 >> sockets, the sctp_assoc_id could for example simply be equal to the >> file descriptor of the socket, so it is easy to provide. >> > > I whole heartedly AGREE with you.. it IS good design in my mind :-D > >> So I guess I humbly disagree - but you are the standard authors, not me. > > > I too am one of the "standards" authors (even though this is > an informational RFC.. not a standard).. and so is Qiaobing, and > I believe that two out of the five authors agree with you.. > > I, as yet, have not heard from La Monte OR Michael Tuexen... Please > co-authors at least speak up on the list.. and other > opinions are also welcome please :-D > > R > >> >> >>> I guess the whole issue comes from sctp_peel_off(). As I said, I >>> strongly recommend app writer not to mix the two different SCTP >>> socket styles. If an app really needs 1-1 style socket, it may as >>> well just use 1-1 style socket only. It can do all the things 1-N >>> style can do. >> >> >> >> Yes, sctp_peeloff() complicates things, (probably *a lot* in the >> implementation) but I do think it is an important function. In the >> application I work on it is highly desirable - a server with >> potentially thousands of clients, so 1-N sockets are useful for that, >> but among those clients, there are some long-term which require good >> flow control, and thus these are peeled off to a 1-1 socket. >> /Anders Torger >> > > -- Randall Stewart ITD - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 815-342-5222 (cell) ------------=_1118352275-8941-0-- From bidulock@openss7.org Thu Jun 9 17:33:13 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21891 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DgUzp-0007dw-TV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 17:55:31 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jun 2005 14:32:55 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,187,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="276700686:sNHT862532782" Received: from nailgun.cisco.com (nailgun.cisco.com [171.69.11.147]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j59LWVm0025750; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nailscatch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nailgun.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id j59LWNnJ009076 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200506092132.j59LWNnJ009076@nailgun.cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------=_1118352743-9074-0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: NAILS X-Brought-To-You-BY: djohnsen, stharms, Enterprise Messaging, and the letter "E" Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Sockets API suggestion concerning sctp_assoc_t List-Id: sctp-impl To: Randall Stewart From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" Cc: Anders Torger , Kacheong Poon , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com X-Nails-Approved: bidulock@openss7.org Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:27:04 -0600 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1118352743-9074-0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Randall, I am against having assoc-id for 1:1 style sockets. --brian On Thu, 09 Jun 2005, Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > > > > > > > My opinion is that the current Linux/BSD use of assoc id is indeed > > simpler than the one in Solaris, and I think it is worth making the > > standard specify assoc id behaviour in more detail to secure consistent > > and easy-to-use behaviour on all platforms. > > Anders: > > I agree with you completely.. but I have one comment and then > a summary: > > First the comment.. we are not making a standard here.. the socket-api > will be, when finished, an informational RFC.. so its NOT a standard. > To get it to be a standard I think it would have to be sent to > POSIX or one of those types of orgs :-D > > Now So far I have seen: > > Against having assoc-id for one-2-one style: > > Kacheong Poon Brian Bidulock > > For having one-2-one style have an assoc-id > > Anders Toger > Qiaobing Xie > Shridhar (I am assuming here since he implemented it that way) > Peter Lei (same assumption above) > Randall Stewart > > --------------------------------- > > Others that have NOT voiced an opinion.. please do so.. For > those that I may have mis-interpreted.. speak up and > say so.. > > At the "end" of the voting process we will change the > document one way or another.. > > R > > -- > Randall Stewart > ITD - Cisco Systems Inc. > 803-345-0369 815-342-5222 (cell) -- Brian F. G. Bidulock � The reasonable man adapts himself to the � bidulock@openss7.org � world; the unreasonable one persists in � http://www.openss7.org/ � trying to adapt the world to himself. � � Therefore all progress depends on the � � unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw � ------------=_1118352743-9074-0-- From peterlei@cisco.com Thu Jun 9 17:33:28 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21914 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DgV05-0007eH-VZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 17:55:46 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jun 2005 14:33:21 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,187,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="276701055:sNHT61328242" Received: from nailgun.cisco.com (nailgun.cisco.com [171.69.11.147]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j59LX5lq026095; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nailscatch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nailgun.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id j59LX0nJ009090 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200506092133.j59LX0nJ009090@nailgun.cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------=_1118352780-9088-0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: NAILS X-Brought-To-You-BY: djohnsen, stharms, Enterprise Messaging, and the letter "E" Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Sockets API suggestion concerning sctp_assoc_t List-Id: sctp-impl To: Randall Stewart , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com From: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" X-Nails-Approved: peterlei@cisco.com Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:32:35 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 932cba6e0228cc603da43d861a7e09d8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1118352780-9088-0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > >> >> >> My opinion is that the current Linux/BSD use of assoc id is indeed >> simpler than the one in Solaris, and I think it is worth making the >> standard specify assoc id behaviour in more detail to secure >> consistent and easy-to-use behaviour on all platforms. > > > Anders: > > I agree with you completely.. but I have one comment and then > a summary: > > First the comment.. we are not making a standard here.. the socket-api > will be, when finished, an informational RFC.. so its NOT a standard. > To get it to be a standard I think it would have to be sent to > POSIX or one of those types of orgs :-D > > Now So far I have seen: > > Against having assoc-id for one-2-one style: > > Kacheong Poon > > For having one-2-one style have an assoc-id > > Anders Toger > Qiaobing Xie > Shridhar (I am assuming here since he implemented it that way) > Peter Lei (same assumption above) No assumption needed... :-) All assocs in our implementations have a unique assoc_id no matter what programming model is used, and that is my preference as well. regards, --peter > Randall Stewart > > --------------------------------- > > Others that have NOT voiced an opinion.. please do so.. For > those that I may have mis-interpreted.. speak up and > say so.. > > At the "end" of the voting process we will change the > document one way or another.. > > R > ------------=_1118352780-9088-0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEH AQAAoIII7TCCAtEwggI6oAMCAQICAw7gDTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADBiMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkg THRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3Vp bmcgQ0EwHhcNMDUwNjA3MTEwMDM1WhcNMDYwNjA3MTEwMDM1WjBEMR8wHQYD VQQDExZUaGF3dGUgRnJlZW1haWwgTWVtYmVyMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhJw ZXRlcmxlaUBjaXNjby5jb20wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEK AoIBAQCyvwrp9HzniZ4xlIR0V5Yynff2vWLFzoysQ8HQ2iwYUdvxKS2ONL6b uUoXCAXvFFvN8dOhd/Rd65qTQzbMsOzOCN/jcZj6kWrnXteCa7dPF2dvG+jx NFnh9CBxJCQKv4NK6jovjGQNNdGZ4qo78c/XaOvsdW5m9Fh5Kt99t2G1PRFa PDnSWAtX/J0UQs5eYre+pwmEZGwTC4L3hfXlrKdtR0F5YpwDpPmFLoCTLMYs /QB/8/lmqG4LiFtGx8NjLxpkMC+E8XIG7QYz/RbYXULl0CxD8ELxUnK9QG9a sxHFMzyS3IeUUZ41uD7avq8rn7mhMJpR0AUn3CBdxoznOBvzAgMBAAGjLzAt MB0GA1UdEQQWMBSBEnBldGVybGVpQGNpc2NvLmNvbTAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAA MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBALFQnp9LmpHD5tj9xX0ZWXaq0bSGVjKWfDLT QLaNUv0mAg4vtzFv6jPMvBAjd39yTa8HKLNGjic3fhILRPjhw3nN8UXYBvhd xyisNK86NQq1Xk6luEsiO5kDjhGgAVSD7rLHlR3yBPJ0OKaPO2b/fbm3dGL3 m2KKvP+E8FLxsc60MIIC0TCCAjqgAwIBAgIDDuANMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUA MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAo UHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwg SXNzdWluZyBDQTAeFw0wNTA2MDcxMTAwMzVaFw0wNjA2MDcxMTAwMzVaMEQx HzAdBgNVBAMTFlRoYXd0ZSBGcmVlbWFpbCBNZW1iZXIxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0B CQEWEnBldGVybGVpQGNpc2NvLmNvbTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEP ADCCAQoCggEBALK/Cun0fOeJnjGUhHRXljKd9/a9YsXOjKxDwdDaLBhR2/Ep LY40vpu5ShcIBe8UW83x06F39F3rmpNDNsyw7M4I3+NxmPqRaude14Jrt08X Z28b6PE0WeH0IHEkJAq/g0rqOi+MZA010Zniqjvxz9do6+x1bmb0WHkq3323 YbU9EVo8OdJYC1f8nRRCzl5it76nCYRkbBMLgveF9eWsp21HQXlinAOk+YUu gJMsxiz9AH/z+WaobguIW0bHw2MvGmQwL4TxcgbtBjP9FthdQuXQLEPwQvFS cr1Ab1qzEcUzPJLch5RRnjW4Ptq+ryufuaEwmlHQBSfcIF3GjOc4G/MCAwEA AaMvMC0wHQYDVR0RBBYwFIEScGV0ZXJsZWlAY2lzY28uY29tMAwGA1UdEwEB /wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEAsVCen0uakcPm2P3FfRlZdqrRtIZW MpZ8MtNAto1S/SYCDi+3MW/qM8y8ECN3f3JNrwcos0aOJzd+EgtE+OHDec3x RdgG+F3HKKw0rzo1CrVeTqW4SyI7mQOOEaABVIPusseVHfIE8nQ4po87Zv99 ubd0YvebYoq8/4TwUvGxzrQwggM/MIICqKADAgECAgENMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB BQUAMIHRMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTEVMBMGA1UECBMMV2VzdGVybiBDYXBlMRIw EAYDVQQHEwlDYXBlIFRvd24xGjAYBgNVBAoTEVRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5n MSgwJgYDVQQLEx9DZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzIERpdmlzaW9uMSQw IgYDVQQDExtUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgQ0ExKzApBgkqhkiG 9w0BCQEWHHBlcnNvbmFsLWZyZWVtYWlsQHRoYXd0ZS5jb20wHhcNMDMwNzE3 MDAwMDAwWhcNMTMwNzE2MjM1OTU5WjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UE ChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhh d3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAMSmPFVzVftOucqZWh5owHUEcJ3f6f+jHuy9zfVb 8hp2vX8MOmHyv1HOAdTlUAow1wJjWiyJFXCO3cnwK4Vaqj9xVsuvPAsH5/Ef kTYkKhPPK9Xzgnc9A74r/rsYPge/QIACZNenprufZdHFKlSFD0gEf6e20Txh BEAeZBlyYLf7AgMBAAGjgZQwgZEwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADBDBgNV HR8EPDA6MDigNqA0hjJodHRwOi8vY3JsLnRoYXd0ZS5jb20vVGhhd3RlUGVy c29uYWxGcmVlbWFpbENBLmNybDALBgNVHQ8EBAMCAQYwKQYDVR0RBCIwIKQe MBwxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVByaXZhdGVMYWJlbDItMTM4MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUA A4GBAEiM0VCD6gsuzA2jZqxnD3+vrL7CF6FDlpSdf0whuPg2H6otnzYvwPQc UCCTcDz9reFhYsPZOhl+hLGZGwDFGguCdJ4lUJRix9sncVcljd2pnDmOjCBP ZV+V2vf3h9bGCE6u9uo05RAaWzVNd+NWIXiC3CEZNd4ksdMdRv9dX2VPMYID OzCCAzcCAQEwaTBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENv bnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFs IEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECAw7gDTAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBpzAYBgkq hkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0wNTA2MDky MTMyMzVaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBTXhSSWW6ncsN2uyN8pLeBz3m4bFDBS BgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xRTBDMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgIAgDAN BggqhkiG9w0DAgIBQDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBKDB4BgkrBgEE AYI3EAQxazBpMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29u c3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwg RnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIDDuANMHoGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMWugaTBi MQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0 eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElz c3VpbmcgQ0ECAw7gDTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQAA4xNuiTQh19zEct1y mvwRCLvYWtO7CPdxhfVAShPzKiizvNa7IX1Vd9LvBt0cV2N3FwKL4DlowxYI jngICzgPwMJm+AhROsbGwV3yeLs9068Uz5Bto2OxTmGLb2rZ6cJg61QQTUnS +Qrd3J5gHieQGOo1+1NYRAwSWvoGtih4SE/mrGjUm9/+f9tb1KX+iyW11DHO 5Bvp0UhmeWr8C5/ef3lQWYHNgj2qOtA4XGmHr9j9Hb6HsUareNtFUQZYB0gK U+GAzDvkrH4gHViiHB1wXTzPg0QjoMqDzzwPjy9h+PAW+/VIyisBTDlwxho7 CRltIfu9ZHH1z0kDuAf17D7DAAAAAAAA ------------=_1118352780-9088-0-- From peterlei@cisco.com Thu Jun 9 17:37:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA22017 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DgV3d-0000EZ-1X for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 17:59:26 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jun 2005 14:37:00 -0700 Received: from nailgun.cisco.com (nailgun.cisco.com [171.69.11.147]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j59Lajm0029007; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nailscatch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nailgun.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id j59LadnJ009155 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200506092136.j59LadnJ009155@nailgun.cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------=_1118352999-9153-0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: NAILS X-Brought-To-You-BY: djohnsen, stharms, Enterprise Messaging, and the letter "E" Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Sockets API suggestion concerning sctp_assoc_t List-Id: sctp-impl To: Randall Stewart , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com From: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" X-Nails-Approved: peterlei@cisco.com Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:33:50 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1118352999-9153-0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > >> >> >> My opinion is that the current Linux/BSD use of assoc id is indeed >> simpler than the one in Solaris, and I think it is worth making the >> standard specify assoc id behaviour in more detail to secure >> consistent and easy-to-use behaviour on all platforms. > > > Anders: > > I agree with you completely.. but I have one comment and then > a summary: > > First the comment.. we are not making a standard here.. the socket-api > will be, when finished, an informational RFC.. so its NOT a standard. > To get it to be a standard I think it would have to be sent to > POSIX or one of those types of orgs :-D > > Now So far I have seen: > > Against having assoc-id for one-2-one style: > > Kacheong Poon > > For having one-2-one style have an assoc-id > > Anders Toger > Qiaobing Xie > Shridhar (I am assuming here since he implemented it that way) > Peter Lei (same assumption above) No assumption needed... :-) All assocs in our implementations have a unique assoc_id no matter what programming model is used, and that is my preference as well. regards, --peter > Randall Stewart > > --------------------------------- > > Others that have NOT voiced an opinion.. please do so.. For > those that I may have mis-interpreted.. speak up and > say so.. > > At the "end" of the voting process we will change the > document one way or another.. > > R > ------------=_1118352999-9153-0-- From bweber@doramail.com Thu Jun 9 18:08:39 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24245; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DgVY8-0001wW-7i; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:30:57 -0400 Received: from c-24-12-209-108.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([24.12.209.108]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1DgVCY-0006Bi-3E; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:08:38 -0400 Received: from gohi.biz by severaltycyh (sz.2is) id yllgotouem with SMTP; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:59:26 -0300 Message-ID: <20041botgw3.ED8DA244AE@mailhost1r.lists.techtarget.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:07:26 -0200 From: "Daren Raines" To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Cc: seamoby@ietf.org, seamoby-admin@ietf.org, seamoby-archive@ietf.org, seamoby-bounces@ietf.org, seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org, sec-chairs@ietf.org, secdir@ietf.org, secdir-admin@ietf.org, secdir-web-archive@ietf.org, secretary@ietf.org Subject: Your low mortage rate X-Mailer: KYX CP/M FNORD 5602 X-Spam-Score: 11.1 (+++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Hello, We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate. 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G. Bidulock" Cc: Randall Stewart , Kacheong Poon , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com X-Nails-Approved: bidulock@openss7.org Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:58:27 -0600 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1118358195-10625-0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Anders, Because it is a sockets interface and the 1:1 model is closest to the current POSIX standards. IMO the 1:N model is a new API, separate from sockets, and bears no resemblance to any standard. (Why can you not use poll(2)?) I do not agree with pushing a non-standard element onto a standards(-based) interface. But then, I also do not subscribe to the sockets-draft model at all (primarily because the 1:1 model deviates unnecessarily from the POSIX standard). IMO, requiring assoc-id would push the 1:1 model farther from the POSIX standard. It is my opinion, for what it's worth. BTW, if you want a look at a different approach, see: http://www.openss7.org/man/man2html?7+sctp --brian On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Anders Torger wrote: > > > I am against having assoc-id for 1:1 style sockets. > > > > --brian > > I'm just curious, do you have a reason why? > > I think I forgot to mention one of the stronger reason why assoc-id > should be present for both 1:1 and 1:N sockets. Actually, the initial > discussion from my point of view was about whether assoc-id should be > undefined or set to zero, but I realize that it would be considerably > better to require that assoc-id is present and valid, as Randall > suggests. > > In our application, we had the same code for handling notification > events for 1:1 sockets and 1:N sockets, since we haven't read the > drafts for the informational RFC (I shall try not saying > 'standard' :-)) all that good, and just went along with what worked. > This was on Linux. However, when the code was compiled for Solaris, it > broke, because assoc ids where undefined for 1:1 sockets, and thus we > had to make two separate cases in the code for 1:1 sockets and 1:N > sockets, where the code previously was shared. Not good. > > I don't think that "one generally shouldn't mix 1:1 and 1:N sockets in > the same application" is a strong enough argument for *not* providing a > valid assoc id. And I don't see how this feature would severly > complicate the internal design of the API implementation. > > /Anders Torger -- Brian F. G. 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From sri@us.ibm.com Thu Jun 9 21:18:10 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA07565 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DgYVX-0002C8-BK for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:40:27 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jun 2005 18:17:59 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,188,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="642527860:sNHT53651572" Received: from nailgun.cisco.com (nailgun.cisco.com [171.69.11.147]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j5A1Ggm0020470; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nailscatch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nailgun.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id j5A1CUnJ012621 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200506100112.j5A1CUnJ012621@nailgun.cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------=_1118365950-12613-0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: NAILS X-Brought-To-You-BY: djohnsen, stharms, Enterprise Messaging, and the letter "E" Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Sockets API suggestion concerning sctp_assoc_t List-Id: sctp-impl To: Randall Stewart From: Sridhar Samudrala Cc: Anders Torger , Kacheong Poon , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com X-Nails-Approved: sri@us.ibm.com Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:00:25 -0700 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1118365950-12613-0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > >> >> >> My opinion is that the current Linux/BSD use of assoc id is indeed >> simpler than the one in Solaris, and I think it is worth making the >> standard specify assoc id behaviour in more detail to secure >> consistent and easy-to-use behaviour on all platforms. > > > Anders: > > I agree with you completely.. but I have one comment and then > a summary: > > First the comment.. we are not making a standard here.. the socket-api > will be, when finished, an informational RFC.. so its NOT a standard. > To get it to be a standard I think it would have to be sent to > POSIX or one of those types of orgs :-D > > Now So far I have seen: > > Against having assoc-id for one-2-one style: > > Kacheong Poon > > For having one-2-one style have an assoc-id > > Anders Toger > Qiaobing Xie > Shridhar (I am assuming here since he implemented it that way) I have implemented it this way, but i don't see a need to make it a requirement for an implementation to have associd for 1-1 style sockets. It should be OK for a 1-1 style association to have an associd of 0. If we change our implementation to have per socket associd space, then it would be simpler to make associd as 0 for all 1-1 style sockets. Otherwise, when we do a peeloff, we have to release the old associd and assign a new one. Thanks Sridhar > Peter Lei (same assumption above) > Randall Stewart > > --------------------------------- > > Others that have NOT voiced an opinion.. please do so.. For > those that I may have mis-interpreted.. speak up and > say so.. > > At the "end" of the voting process we will change the > document one way or another.. > > R > ------------=_1118365950-12613-0-- From ortenzio@doramail.com Thu Jun 9 23:59:57 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA16707; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [60.223.228.133] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dgb28-0001Cf-2A; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:22:19 -0400 Received: from devl.biz by netherworldart (uf.2kh) id ctocniijre with SMTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:56:42 -0400 Message-ID: <20041lspfh3.ED8DA244AE@mailhost1a.lists.techtarget.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:50:42 -0500 From: "Patty Starks" To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Cc: seamoby@ietf.org, seamoby-admin@ietf.org, seamoby-archive@ietf.org, seamoby-bounces@ietf.org, seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org, sec-chairs@ietf.org, secdir@ietf.org, secdir-admin@ietf.org, secdir-web-archive@ietf.org, secretary@ietf.org, serv-admin@ietf.org, serv-interest@ietf.org Subject: Save hundreds every month on low rates X-Mailer: KYX CP/M FNORD 5602 X-Spam-Score: 12.7 (++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Hello, We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate. 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It should be > OK for a > 1-1 style association to have an associd of 0. > If we change our implementation to have per socket associd space, then > it would > be simpler to make associd as 0 for all 1-1 style sockets. Otherwise, > when we do a > peeloff, we have to release the old associd and assign a new one. > An informational RFC cannot make ANY MUST or Requirments.. its only that.. informational. So no matter which we pick.. its never a requirement.. 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V tumour l		berhyme A		l compost A		advertence Ll
lubberly = AGR	= sensitize C	LI = retractor S willing = VA	openly = UM	and many other.

covenanted Vl		effervescence RA		commute lA		pericrania Ll
A = corruption G	C	chance = LIS VA	treacle = UM	and many other.

valueless V		stalemate R		A unaltered L		L proclitic l
l = overblow AG	A C = greatcoat l	IS = escort VA	neutral = UM	and many other.

revolted V		dentine R		A detainer L		fugleman Ll
l = ungrounded AG	A = stereochemistry Cl	IS V = fulcrum A	planted = UM	and many other.

simplicity V		Gloucester R		overturn AL		circumlocution Ll
l = saboteur AG	A = cattlelifter Cl	IS V = democratic A	U = decently M	and many other.

topfull V		augural G		lustrum AL		encampment Ll
ability = lA	R = preaudience A C quencher = l	I palpal = S drowsily = VA	insult = UM	and many other.