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And the text we discussed regarding the SCTP level reuse option is: For TCP the SO_REUSEPORT or SO_REUSEADDR are an important interface to the socket API. These allow binding of the same port multiple times. In the case of TCP this is often necessary since TCP will put into TIME-WAIT address and port combination thus effectively blocking use of that port for 2 MSL. SCTP, on the other hand, does not TIME-WAIT ports, instead it will TIME-WAIT V-Tags. Thus such an option is less useful in the API with SCTP. There are still, however, corner cases where an application may find these options useful. The general rules for the use of these options are as follows: - SO_REUSEPORT and SO_REUSEADDR are the same, either options specifies the same behavior, described in this note. Furthermore, in the rest of this note we refer to either one (or both) of these options as SO_REUSE. - SO_REUSE is explicitly disallowed on all one-to-many sockets. - A socket that is NOT bound INADDR_ANY that attempts to use the SO_REUSE option will fail i.e. subset binding of SO_REUSE sockets is explicitly disallowed. - If an application first binds a socket WITHOUT the SO_REUSE option, then all subsequent binds to that same port/address combination with the SO_REUSE option will fail. - If an application first bind a socket WITH the SO_REUSE option, then subsequent binds of that same port/address combination with the SO_REUSE option will succeed only if those subsequent sockets also carry the SO_REUSE option. - Only one socket of the same port/address combination may be allowed to listen by an implementation of SCTP. If an implementation does allow multiple sockets listening on the same port/address combination then it is an implementation dependent detail as to if connections to that socket go to the same socket, or are load shared amongst the multiply bound sockets. - A connect call will always be allowed for sockets that share the same port/address combination. After the association completes and is subsequently shutdown, the socket will no longer be allowed to connect to further peers i.e. it is identical to an accepted one-to-one socket, it must be closed. - A socket that does NOT use the SO_REUSE option may make a connection and after the association completes, be reused in a new connection. Best regards Michael On Aug 27, 2007, at 7:09 PM, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: >> >> Michael has some of the other notes.. and can chime in here.. >> but I think we also agreed that... >> >> Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>> [Trying again. Looks like the mail list dropped my first >>> message....] >>> >>> Hi all >>> >>> This is the notes I have from the API discussion that happened at >>> the SCTP interop. >>> bindx() >>> - this is an atomic operation that will succeed or fail for all >>> addresses. >>> - add wording about usage with only 1 address so that applications >>> know which one failed. >>> >>> send calls() >>> - atomic in non-EOR mode (message mode). >>> - may or may not support implicit connect on 1-to-1 sockets. >> >> - sending on a 1-2-M socket when an assoc is formed is a >> non-blocking thing. The data gets queued and the implicit >> setup happens in parrallel. >> > > I believe it was mentioned :) As long as that's OK with others, I > can live with it. > > -vlad > >> >> There may have been another one as well.. but I need to >> think about it.. still a bit jet-lagged :-0 >> >> R >>> >>> sinfo_flags: >>> - need to a list of flags that are only allowed in setsockopt(). >>> - SCTP_INIT flag with NULL data established an association. >>> - sctp_sendmsg() with NULL data and NULL ancillary data establishes >>> an association with default init params. This will be a non- >>> blocking >>> connect. >>> - sendmsg() with no user data, without existing association, and >>> with >>> SCTP_ABORT or SCTP_EOF results in an error (EDONOTBESTUPID? :-) >>> >>> PRSCTP >>> - replace timetolive with pr_value and add policy framework >>> support. >>> - add SCTP_PR*** sinfo flag - pad the hole in sndrcvinfo with >>> sinfo_pr_*** 16 bit field to support >>> policies. >>> >>> HAVE_SCTP_*** flags >>> - go away. >>> >>> SO_REUSE*** >>> - Michael/Randy have text. >>> - setsockopt() must be before bind(). only 1 socket may listen. >>> - Define it as an SCTP level option (SO_ level option behavior is >>> unspecified) >>> - fail on 1-to-many. >>> >>> AUTH >>> - change sctp_hmacs structure to include a length or number of >>> hmacs >>> - change sctp_authkey structure to include the key length. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7EE6A.BA8C00F0-- From jan.newmarch@gmail.com Mon Sep 03 21:45:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISNUN-0000Ny-7i for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:45:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISNUM-0005fW-V9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:45:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Sep 2007 21:45:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l841jwD3009294; Mon, 3 Sep 2007 21:45:58 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l841in5m009222; Tue, 4 Sep 2007 01:44:49 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l841hVN8014814 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2007 21:43:31 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l841hVkL014810 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 3 Sep 2007 21:43:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to jan.newmarch@gmail.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 64.233.162.238 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMdU3EZA6aLukGdsb2JhbACOEAEBAQEHBAYPEQU X-Ironport-Av: i="4.20,203,1186383600"; d="scan'208"; a="27839832:sNHT8705160" Dkim-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=DLhF27TgP7kxy6Uuywf+pAAZL6rpC42e8fWo94KEH2PY9D2D55q861LamC5JjqMJrOoWb+n+b8m/b7NpUkMbeN4NsU5lkiTbhQEa5Ydn0AUPo+KMIun9DXr0Vgxu/wm2gutaeZ5JApps9Q4QfeKT51sZF6uqO0BSMsSY79tXq3E= Domainkey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=itO1jyV0Hmp3AofbRYz9jyd/ftCBZCFWptMvS7LtQwTlw1ZN2DGXOiCwxu5Ca4/oenCJ8rXvuCB/idHUIRoN/k4tCxYAant0HazuMVYFdruXZyAjvLfLFKm2ZCiJM5j4YuGXeXJbHTYOtrGxUx3uRc4HWFgVSHAPQVzq4ZtSFIg= Message-Id: <579ea40b0709031842ufbb3beeoececcbf272d7c944@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 11:42:31 +1000 From: "Jan Newmarch" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Article on SCTP in Linux Journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.DKIM-Signature=@gmail.com; dkim=fail ( RSA-128 err: hdrdiffs=none; bodyvfy=unknown; gmail.com/beta fail; ); header.From=jan.newmarch@gmail.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Hi all I have written three introductory articles on SCTP for the Linux Journal. The first of these has just appeared in the September 2007 issue number 161. In a month or so it should appear on their web site, http://www.linuxjournal.com Jan -- From PetjaMilks@NEEDHAMS.COM Tue Sep 04 06:22:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISVYS-0001TS-H8 for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 06:22:44 -0400 Received: from adsl-249-27.38-151.net24.it ([151.38.27.249]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISVYR-0003ek-GN for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 06:22:44 -0400 Received: from pc5-4d64dfe3d77 ([122.169.93.95] helo=pc5-4d64dfe3d77) by adsl-249-27.38-151.net24.it ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1OWZZJ-000NSX-Us for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:22:48 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c7eef6$a169cee0$f91b2697@pc54d64dfe3d77> From: "Petja Milks" To: Subject: cidbuats Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:22:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7EF07.64F29EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000768-5, 08/27/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7EF07.64F29EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.micodes.com/ How it is going Milks If you dont gain at least 1/2 inch within the first month, send them = back for a full refund Olesya Jann ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7EF07.64F29EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http://www.micodes.com/
How it is going Milks
If you dont gain at least 1/2 inch within the = first=20 month, send them back for a full refund
Olesya Jann
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Iwona Ihrig http://czrcrazy.com/ From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Mon Sep 17 11:59:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXJ0M-0002sS-9e for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:59:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXJ0L-0007Kh-27 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:59:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 11:59:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HFxKaT028266; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:59:20 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HFvC2j004491; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:57:12 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HFq4iH030954 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:52:04 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HFq4x3030950 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:52:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.214 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAAg/7kacmf/Wlmdsb2JhbACOFQIHBAYPGA X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="46141414" Message-Id: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:49:59 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors Subject: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Hi All The current text is Section 8.4, OOTB handling has this for treatment of OOTB packets with SHUTDOWN-ACK: 5) If the packet contains a SHUTDOWN ACK chunk, the receiver should respond to the sender of the OOTB packet with a SHUTDOWN COMPLETE. When sending the SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the receiver of the OOTB packet must fill in the Verification Tag field of the outbound packet with the Verification Tag received in the SHUTDOWN ACK and set the T-bit in the Chunk Flags to indicate that the Verification Tag is reflected. Otherwise, My question is, why not discard this packet? It's OOTB, so if there is anything bundled along with SHUTDOWN-ACK it would elicit another response (ABORT or SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE). Seems a bit pointless, but I may be missing something. I used to have code that discarded the packet, but while doing some update and re-reading the spec, I noticed that it didn't match the text. Thanks -vlad From peterlei@cisco.com Mon Sep 17 12:03:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXJ4o-0006As-Lj for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:03:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXJ4o-0001hy-BK for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:03:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 12:03:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HG3vPb031625; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:03:57 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HG3k2j008463; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:03:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HG3TJP031165 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:03:29 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HG3TkV031161 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:03:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to peterlei@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:03:25 -0500 From: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.8.1.6) Gecko/20070728 Thunderbird/2.0.0.6 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 17 Sep 2007 16:03:24.0088 (UTC) FILETIME=[46991B80:01C7F944] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1426; t=1190045037; x=1190909037; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=peterlei@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Peter=20Lei=20(peterlei)=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=ebKXaGJrfcUGOSBCOVlVzGbv2hnZtLGJWvzccNUA4SM=; b=n4/6FOKmIeuoI0q8P6uvVBqS88EQ/Ns3w5hl2+gy2WZlQ56ZsG3sI5hThcmuaplEY9LT6eiS 8Tue9uNZ5PcZppy+g2yjuALD1vGvPyWBgk+XW34ymDWO2QqyYHq9eu5X; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1426; t=1190045008; x=1190909008; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=peterlei@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Peter=20Lei=20(peterlei)=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=ebKXaGJrfcUGOSBCOVlVzGbv2hnZtLGJWvzccNUA4SM=; b=wcmXlkxgok2A9+EJ8pvrU7WVFcNkG4Siwa9ocsrTVFMnSAN9IhGYbHFuxS+D/W4lxlHVoAv8 jgzt9BcpP+h1BFzzs2SLMjhGiPg0e/hKQnDeomLo4gzyZyPfawfu593b; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=peterlei@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=peterlei@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). --peter Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Hi All > > The current text is Section 8.4, OOTB handling has this for > treatment of OOTB packets with SHUTDOWN-ACK: > > 5) If the packet contains a SHUTDOWN ACK chunk, the receiver should > respond to the sender of the OOTB packet with a SHUTDOWN > COMPLETE. When sending the SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the receiver of > the OOTB packet must fill in the Verification Tag field of the > outbound packet with the Verification Tag received in the > SHUTDOWN ACK and set the T-bit in the Chunk Flags to indicate > that the Verification Tag is reflected. Otherwise, > > My question is, why not discard this packet? It's OOTB, so if there > is anything bundled along with SHUTDOWN-ACK it would elicit another > response (ABORT or SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE). Seems a bit pointless, but > I may be missing something. > > I used to have code that discarded the packet, but while doing some update > and re-reading the spec, I noticed that it didn't match the text. > > Thanks > -vlad From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Mon Sep 17 13:28:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXKOI-000140-Dw for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:28:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXKOH-00029q-8l for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:28:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 13:28:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HHS4On013009; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:28:04 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HHRac8020010; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:27:36 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HHQ6Cv032718 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:26:06 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HHQ6Tg032714 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:26:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAExV7kacmf/VrGdsb2JhbACOFQICAQQEBg8Y X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="46180067" Message-Id: <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:23:58 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Peter Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: > What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It > will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a > SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. > > Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more > quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would > get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible response is an ABORT. For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. 2. ABORT in response to HB. What I am talking about is to add text like "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and take no further action." to the paragraph in item 5. This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent with OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. -vlad > > --peter > > Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> Hi All >> >> The current text is Section 8.4, OOTB handling has this for >> treatment of OOTB packets with SHUTDOWN-ACK: >> >> 5) If the packet contains a SHUTDOWN ACK chunk, the receiver should >> respond to the sender of the OOTB packet with a SHUTDOWN >> COMPLETE. When sending the SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the receiver of >> the OOTB packet must fill in the Verification Tag field of the >> outbound packet with the Verification Tag received in the >> SHUTDOWN ACK and set the T-bit in the Chunk Flags to indicate >> that the Verification Tag is reflected. Otherwise, >> >> My question is, why not discard this packet? It's OOTB, so if there >> is anything bundled along with SHUTDOWN-ACK it would elicit another >> response (ABORT or SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE). Seems a bit pointless, but >> I may be missing something. >> >> I used to have code that discarded the packet, but while doing some update >> and re-reading the spec, I noticed that it didn't match the text. >> >> Thanks >> -vlad > From tayfur@datentechnik.com Mon Sep 17 13:29:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXKPQ-0001bv-BL for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:29:20 -0400 Received: from pool-141-156-93-220.res.east.verizon.net ([141.156.93.220]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXKPP-0004xO-TS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:29:20 -0400 Received: from [141.156.93.220] by ns1.datentechnik.com; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:29:17 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c7f950$01f8ef2b$936771a0@solmmwbd> From: "heathcliff yeong" To: Subject: Just call the number below Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:41:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7F950.01F85E34" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7F950.01F85E34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No Hassle Business Loans! 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    To: Vlad Yasevich CC: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? Message-Id: <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com>; from vladislav.yasevich@hp.com on Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 01:23:58PM -0400 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ DSN-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=bidulock@openss7.org; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Vlad, It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN-ACK. The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that makes sense? --brian On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Peter > > Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: > > What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It > > will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a > > SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. > > > > Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more > > quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would > > get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). > > But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response > to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. > > The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with > this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still > have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible > response is an ABORT. > > For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 > packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: > > 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be > separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. > > 2. ABORT in response to HB. > > What I am talking about is to add text like > > "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the > receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and > take no further action." > > to the paragraph in item 5. > > This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent with > OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. > > -vlad -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ From wwjordan@iskon.hr Mon Sep 17 14:05:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXKy8-00006G-HC for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:05:12 -0400 Received: from catv-50633acb.catv.broadband.hu ([80.99.58.203] helo=Network-Tools.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXKy7-00065s-Og for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:05:12 -0400 Message-ID: <302301c7f954$34298389$d843452e@iskon.hr> From: Erectile To: sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Viagra GET IT HERE!!! Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:04:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_8592A83B.2D2A8FD4" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express V6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_8592A83B.2D2A8FD4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is CIALIS? CIALIS is the only ED (Erectile Disfunction) tablet clinically proven to work both up to 36 hours and in as fast as 30 minutes. And because CIALIS has an extended period of effectiveness, you dont have the pressure to perform within a few hours. You and your partner can relax and take your time choosing the moment that is right for both of you. Benefits of CIALIS Works up to 36 hours Works fast Works Effectively Keeps you ready No need to plan around meals Used by millions of men Buy CIALIS online! ------=_NextPart_000_0000_8592A83B.2D2A8FD4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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     ------=_NextPart_000_0000_8592A83B.2D2A8FD4-- From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Mon Sep 17 14:08:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXL0v-0000wY-T3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:08:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXL0v-00069x-Fr for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:08:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 14:08:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HI84qo010032; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:08:04 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HI7Fc8006856; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:07:15 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HI6M30001081 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:06:22 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HI6MPr001077 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:06:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAM5e7kacmf/VrGdsb2JhbACOFQICAQQEBg8Y X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="30920700" Message-Id: <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:04:10 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bidulock@openss7.org CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> In-Reply-To: <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da Brian Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > Vlad, > > It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN-ACK. > The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK > is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would > not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that > makes sense? I am not talking about things that make sense. These are OOTB packet and an implementation should be prepared to deal with anything that comes along. The case of 300 bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs comes to mind. The way the OOTB handling is specified, an implementation would send 300 SHUTDOWN COMPLETES, which could be considered an attack. -vlad > > --brian > > On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > >> Peter >> >> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>> What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>> will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >>> >>> Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>> quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>> get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). >> But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response >> to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. >> >> The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with >> this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still >> have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible >> response is an ABORT. >> >> For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 >> packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: >> >> 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be >> separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. >> >> 2. ABORT in response to HB. >> >> What I am talking about is to add text like >> >> "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the >> receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and >> take no further action." >> >> to the paragraph in item 5. >> >> This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent with >> OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. >> >> -vlad > From peterlei@cisco.com Mon Sep 17 14:44:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXLaP-0005zT-H7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXLaP-0007du-0Y for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 14:44:44 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HIii2q030382; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:44 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HIiWc8023085; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:44:32 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HIi0mN001797 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:00 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HIi0Jj001793 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to peterlei@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:43:54 -0500 From: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.8.1.6) Gecko/20070728 Thunderbird/2.0.0.6 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050100070402020107030303" X-Originalarrivaltime: 17 Sep 2007 18:43:52.0767 (UTC) FILETIME=[B1BCECF0:01C7F95A] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=8030; t=1190054684; x=1190918684; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=peterlei@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Peter=20Lei=20(peterlei)=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=qRGF0cIqYWQBFdMzwidoFhLxu0ShgOKXOvFgdVpr0X0=; b=gHvTCrjZ9dXSJB/GJUjDCfz8Sk4lCiLzjD238rPxqJa02A87KUJv9ubl8c/hsNy4qj8FtgQa xIiOruVUHchLQfULNlt+0TDGywYPqEKhOwNGE5nRxrL40dqz3l+LThUE; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=8030; t=1190054639; x=1190918639; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=peterlei@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Peter=20Lei=20(peterlei)=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=qRGF0cIqYWQBFdMzwidoFhLxu0ShgOKXOvFgdVpr0X0=; b=L8JgsUdtdM68e8qiQmgqJ93hQfq5A3Vn58ehBflfoHRqGWHdF91WPhkIodwLX0B8GGEQ0QQV aSm5QvFt5g5JeXEqGGUrrS/gvAoPIP2PXPOqjab88krILUwhEMtUq3Bz; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=peterlei@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=peterlei@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1449ead51a2ff026dcb23465f5379250 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050100070402020107030303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vlad, Sorry, I did not read enough into your original email... I think this case is addressed in the sctp-threats I-D.. that is, an endpoint should not send back multiple packets in response to a single received packet. Thus, the case of N bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs should elicit a single packet with one SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE chunk, as it can't be bundled with any other chunks. As Brian points out, there are no chunks that I know of that one would send after a SHUTDOWN-ACK that would require any real response... so no other outgoing packet should happen. In other words, since only one packet should go out, it would be the SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The BSD implementation does exactly what you say... it disregards any bundled chunks after a SHUTDOWN-ACK in a packet. If this isn't clear from the threats I-D, perhaps the text there can be clarified. --peter Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Brian > > Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >> Vlad, >> >> It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN-ACK. >> The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK >> is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would >> not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that >> makes sense? > > I am not talking about things that make sense. These are OOTB packet > and an implementation should be prepared to deal with anything that > comes along. > > The case of 300 bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs comes to mind. The way the > OOTB handling is specified, an implementation would send 300 SHUTDOWN > COMPLETES, which could be considered an attack. > > -vlad > >> --brian >> >> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> >>> Peter >>> >>> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>>> What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>>> will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >>>> >>>> Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>>> quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>>> get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). >>> But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response >>> to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>> >>> The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with >>> this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still >>> have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible >>> response is an ABORT. >>> >>> For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 >>> packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: >>> >>> 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be >>> separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. >>> >>> 2. ABORT in response to HB. >>> >>> What I am talking about is to add text like >>> >>> "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the >>> receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and >>> take no further action." >>> >>> to the paragraph in item 5. >>> >>> This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent with >>> OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. >>> >>> -vlad --------------ms050100070402020107030303 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJBzCC At4wggJHoAMCAQICEC6nrtnINUwxJqQhHgziOxswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDUwNTE5MTY0MFoX DTA4MDUwNDE5MTY0MFowRDEfMB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEhMB8G 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-0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HIiRc8023029; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:44:27 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HIiDbq001806 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:13 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HIiD4S001802 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAClo7kbBrxgb/2dsb2JhbAA X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="46206417" In-Reply-To: <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <10B03C25-5429-4852-84D6-5BC6EC3A84F5@micmac.franken.de> CC: bidulock@openss7.org, SCTP Implementors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:42:40 +0200 To: Vlad Yasevich X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb Hi Vlad, RFC 5062 (Security Attacks Found Against Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP) and Current Countermeasures) will contain: 9. Bombing Attack (Amplification) 3 This attack allows an attacker to use an SCTP endpoint to send a large number of packets in response to one packet. 9.1. Attack Details The attacker sends a packet to an SCTP endpoint, which requires the sending of multiple chunks. If the SCTP endpoint does not support bundling on the sending side, it might send each chunk per packet. These packets can either be sent to a victim by using the victim's address as the sources address, or it can be considered an attack against the network. Since the chunks, which need to be sent in response to the received packet, may not fit into one packet, an endpoint supporting bundling on the sending side might send multiple packets. Examples of these packets are packets containing a lot of unknown chunks that require an ERROR chunk to be sent, known chunks that initiate the sending of ERROR chunks, packets containing a lot of HEARTBEAT chunks, and so on. 9.2. Analysis This attack depends on the fact that the SCTP endpoint does not support bundling on the sending side or provides a bad implementation of bundling on the sending side. 9.3. Mitigation Option First of all, path verification must happen before sending chunks other than HEARTBEATs for path verification. This ensures that the above attack cannot be used against other hosts. To avoid the attack, an SCTP endpoint should implement bundling on the sending side and should not send multiple packets in response. If the SCTP endpoint does not support bundling on the sending side, it should not send in general more than one packet in response to a received one. The details of the required handling are described in [RFC4960]. and 11. Bombing Attack (amplification) 5 This attack allows an attacker to use an SCTP endpoint to send a large number of packets in response to one packet. 11.1. Attack Details The attacker sends a packet to an SCTP endpoint, which requires the sending of multiple chunks. If the MTU towards the attacker is smaller than the MTU towards the victim, the victim might need to send more than one packet to send all the chunks. The difference between the MTUs might be extremely large if the attacker sends malicious ICMP packets to make use of the path MTU discovery. 11.2. Analysis This attack depends on the fact that an SCTP implementation might not limit the number of response packets correctly. 11.3. Mitigation Option First of all, path verification must happen before sending chunks other than HEARTBEATs for path verification. This makes sure that the above attack cannot be used against other hosts. To avoid the attack, an SCTP endpoint should not send multiple packets in response to a single packet. The chunks not fitting in this packet should be dropped. Best regards Michael On Sep 17, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Brian > > Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >> Vlad, >> >> It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN-ACK. >> The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK >> is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would >> not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that >> makes sense? > > I am not talking about things that make sense. These are OOTB packet > and an implementation should be prepared to deal with anything that > comes along. > > The case of 300 bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs comes to mind. The way the > OOTB handling is specified, an implementation would send 300 SHUTDOWN > COMPLETES, which could be considered an attack. > > -vlad > >> >> --brian >> >> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> >>> Peter >>> >>> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>>> What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>>> will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >>>> >>>> Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>>> quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>>> get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). >>> But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response >>> to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>> >>> The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with >>> this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still >>> have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible >>> response is an ABORT. >>> >>> For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 >>> packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: >>> >>> 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be >>> separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. >>> >>> 2. ABORT in response to HB. >>> >>> What I am talking about is to add text like >>> >>> "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the >>> receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and >>> take no further action." >>> >>> to the paragraph in item 5. >>> >>> This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent with >>> OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. >>> >>> -vlad >> > From bidulock@openss7.org Mon Sep 17 14:44:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXLaS-0005zv-4F for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXLaQ-0004sH-VS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 14:44:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HIik2a022698; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:46 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HIiW2j000342; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:44:32 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HIgJTx001749 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:42:19 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HIgJWc001745 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:42:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to bidulock@openss7.org using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 142.179.199.224 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAKlm7kaOs8fg/2dsb2JhbAA X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="46205813" Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:39:10 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Vlad Yasevich CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? Message-Id: <20070917123910.A26837@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com>; from vladislav.yasevich@hp.com on Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 02:04:10PM -0400 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ DSN-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=bidulock@openss7.org; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Vlad, Well, you are allowed to discard or abort any packet that doesn't make sense or is a protocol violation, such as your examples. It does not require text in the SHUTDOWN-ACK description. Because only a SHUTDOWN-ACK (and maybe the ERROR chunk for cookie received while shutting down) makes sense, I send SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE based on the SHUTDOWN-ACK in the first chunk and ignore the rest of the message. If the packet makes sense, it is valid reply. If the packet does not make sense, it is still a valid reply. --brian On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Brian > > Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > > Vlad, > > > > It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN-ACK. > > The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK > > is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would > > not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that > > makes sense? > > I am not talking about things that make sense. These are OOTB packet > and an implementation should be prepared to deal with anything that > comes along. > > The case of 300 bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs comes to mind. The way the > OOTB handling is specified, an implementation would send 300 SHUTDOWN > COMPLETES, which could be considered an attack. > > -vlad > -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Mon Sep 17 15:01:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXLqE-0003jt-4K for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:01:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXLqA-0000BE-Gd for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:01:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 15:01:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HJ119N030680; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:01:01 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HJ0V2j005992; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:00:31 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HIxRjN002057 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:59:27 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HIxRDp002053 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:59:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.205 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMpr7kacmf/Npmdsb2JhbACOFQICBQQGDxY X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="30932649" Message-Id: <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:57:33 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1b0e72ff1bbd457ceef31828f216a86 Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: > Vlad, > > Sorry, I did not read enough into your original email... > > I think this case is addressed in the sctp-threats I-D.. that is, > an endpoint should not send back multiple packets in response to > a single received packet. > > Thus, the case of N bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs should elicit a single > packet with one SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE chunk, as it can't be bundled > with any other chunks. > > As Brian points out, there are no chunks that I know of that one > would send after a SHUTDOWN-ACK that would require any real > response... so no other outgoing packet should happen. In other > words, since only one packet should go out, it would be the > SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. > > The BSD implementation does exactly what you say... it disregards > any bundled chunks after a SHUTDOWN-ACK in a packet. > > If this isn't clear from the threats I-D, perhaps the text there > can be clarified. I thought that the goal was to put resolutions from the threats ID into 2960bis? Adding the sentence that I provided below would essentially document the current behavior of multiple (if not all implementations) and preclude new implementors from going through this again. Thanks -vlad > > --peter > > > Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> Brian >> >> Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >>> Vlad, >>> >>> It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>> The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK >>> is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would >>> not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that >>> makes sense? >> I am not talking about things that make sense. These are OOTB packet >> and an implementation should be prepared to deal with anything that >> comes along. >> >> The case of 300 bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs comes to mind. The way the >> OOTB handling is specified, an implementation would send 300 SHUTDOWN >> COMPLETES, which could be considered an attack. >> >> -vlad >> >>> --brian >>> >>> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>>>> What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>>>> will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>>>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >>>>> >>>>> Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>>>> quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>>>> get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). >>>> But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response >>>> to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>>> >>>> The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with >>>> this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still >>>> have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible >>>> response is an ABORT. >>>> >>>> For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 >>>> packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: >>>> >>>> 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be >>>> separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. >>>> >>>> 2. ABORT in response to HB. >>>> >>>> What I am talking about is to add text like >>>> >>>> "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the >>>> receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and >>>> take no further action." >>>> >>>> to the paragraph in item 5. >>>> >>>> This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent with >>>> OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. >>>> >>>> -vlad From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Mon Sep 17 15:25:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXMDZ-0006e6-Du for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:25:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXMDY-0001DS-T5 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:25:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 15:25:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HJPCTJ011958; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:25:12 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HJOT2j015361; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:24:29 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HJNbCk002517 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:23:37 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HJNbQd002513 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:23:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAD9w7kbBrxgb/2dsb2JhbAA X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="30939465" In-Reply-To: <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <962F9B51-55FB-49A2-9BFA-76694EEEF661@micmac.franken.de> CC: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors , Randall Stewart Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:22:08 +0200 To: Vlad Yasevich X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 825e642946eda55cd9bc654a36dab8c2 Hi Vlad, I'm adding Randy here... As far as I know, 2960bis is in AUTH48 state, so there can only be editorial comments anymore. If it has not already passed it... Best regards Michael On Sep 17, 2007, at 8:57 PM, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >> Vlad, >> >> Sorry, I did not read enough into your original email... >> >> I think this case is addressed in the sctp-threats I-D.. that is, >> an endpoint should not send back multiple packets in response to >> a single received packet. >> >> Thus, the case of N bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs should elicit a single >> packet with one SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE chunk, as it can't be bundled >> with any other chunks. >> >> As Brian points out, there are no chunks that I know of that one >> would send after a SHUTDOWN-ACK that would require any real >> response... so no other outgoing packet should happen. In other >> words, since only one packet should go out, it would be the >> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. >> >> The BSD implementation does exactly what you say... it disregards >> any bundled chunks after a SHUTDOWN-ACK in a packet. >> >> If this isn't clear from the threats I-D, perhaps the text there >> can be clarified. > > I thought that the goal was to put resolutions from the threats ID > into > 2960bis? Adding the sentence that I provided below would essentially > document the current behavior of multiple (if not all implementations) > and preclude new implementors from going through this again. > > Thanks > -vlad > >> >> --peter >> >> >> Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>> Brian >>> >>> Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >>>> Vlad, >>>> >>>> It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN- >>>> ACK. >>>> The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK >>>> is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would >>>> not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that >>>> makes sense? >>> I am not talking about things that make sense. These are OOTB >>> packet >>> and an implementation should be prepared to deal with anything that >>> comes along. >>> >>> The case of 300 bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs comes to mind. The way the >>> OOTB handling is specified, an implementation would send 300 >>> SHUTDOWN >>> COMPLETES, which could be considered an attack. >>> >>> -vlad >>> >>>> --brian >>>> >>>> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>>> >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>>>>> What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>>>>> will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>>>>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>>>>> quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>>>>> get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). >>>>> But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response >>>>> to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>>>> >>>>> The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with >>>>> this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still >>>>> have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible >>>>> response is an ABORT. >>>>> >>>>> For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 >>>>> packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: >>>>> >>>>> 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be >>>>> separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. >>>>> >>>>> 2. ABORT in response to HB. >>>>> >>>>> What I am talking about is to add text like >>>>> >>>>> "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the >>>>> receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and >>>>> take no further action." >>>>> >>>>> to the paragraph in item 5. >>>>> >>>>> This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent >>>>> with >>>>> OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. >>>>> >>>>> -vlad > From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Mon Sep 17 15:32:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXMKH-0002Vf-Dq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:32:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXMKA-0007Aw-S5 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:32:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 15:31:47 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HJVlnj015939; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:31:47 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HJVUc8011761; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:31:30 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HJVAPl002672 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:31:10 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HJVAtt002668 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:31:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.214 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFxy7kacmf/WrGdsb2JhbACOFQICAQQEBg8Y X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="46220852" Message-Id: <46EED555.7040706@hp.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:28:21 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors , Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> <962F9B51-55FB-49A2-9BFA-76694EEEF661@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <962F9B51-55FB-49A2-9BFA-76694EEEF661@micmac.franken.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Vlad, > > I'm adding Randy here... As far as I know, 2960bis is in > AUTH48 state, so there can only be editorial comments anymore. > If it has not already passed it... Crud... I guess adding: "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and take no further action." To section 8.4, item 5 could be considered editorial, but that's a hard sell. I does document state of the art though... I'll live with whatever outcome. Thanks -vlad > > Best regards > Michael > > On Sep 17, 2007, at 8:57 PM, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > >> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>> Vlad, >>> >>> Sorry, I did not read enough into your original email... >>> >>> I think this case is addressed in the sctp-threats I-D.. that is, >>> an endpoint should not send back multiple packets in response to >>> a single received packet. >>> >>> Thus, the case of N bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs should elicit a single >>> packet with one SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE chunk, as it can't be bundled >>> with any other chunks. >>> >>> As Brian points out, there are no chunks that I know of that one >>> would send after a SHUTDOWN-ACK that would require any real >>> response... so no other outgoing packet should happen. In other >>> words, since only one packet should go out, it would be the >>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. >>> >>> The BSD implementation does exactly what you say... it disregards >>> any bundled chunks after a SHUTDOWN-ACK in a packet. >>> >>> If this isn't clear from the threats I-D, perhaps the text there >>> can be clarified. >> >> I thought that the goal was to put resolutions from the threats ID into >> 2960bis? Adding the sentence that I provided below would essentially >> document the current behavior of multiple (if not all implementations) >> and preclude new implementors from going through this again. >> >> Thanks >> -vlad >> >>> >>> --peter >>> >>> >>> Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >>>>> Vlad, >>>>> >>>>> It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>>>> The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK >>>>> is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would >>>>> not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that >>>>> makes sense? >>>> I am not talking about things that make sense. These are OOTB packet >>>> and an implementation should be prepared to deal with anything that >>>> comes along. >>>> >>>> The case of 300 bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs comes to mind. The way the >>>> OOTB handling is specified, an implementation would send 300 SHUTDOWN >>>> COMPLETES, which could be considered an attack. >>>> >>>> -vlad >>>> >>>>> --brian >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>>>>>> What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>>>>>> will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>>>>>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>>>>>> quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>>>>>> get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). >>>>>> But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response >>>>>> to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>>>>> >>>>>> The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with >>>>>> this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still >>>>>> have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible >>>>>> response is an ABORT. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 >>>>>> packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be >>>>>> separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. ABORT in response to HB. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I am talking about is to add text like >>>>>> >>>>>> "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the >>>>>> receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and >>>>>> take no further action." >>>>>> >>>>>> to the paragraph in item 5. >>>>>> >>>>>> This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent with >>>>>> OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. >>>>>> >>>>>> -vlad >> > From rrs@cisco.com Mon Sep 17 16:52:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXNZc-0005RI-M2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:52:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXNZc-0003yw-1Z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:52:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 16:52:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HKq3aF023362; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:52:03 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HKp5ci010587; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:51:05 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HKnoeG004017 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:49:50 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HKnovY004013 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:49:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="219745553" Message-Id: <46EEE844.5050805@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:49:08 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20070601 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: Michael Tuexen , "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> <962F9B51-55FB-49A2-9BFA-76694EEEF661@micmac.franken.de> <46EED555.7040706@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46EED555.7040706@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 17 Sep 2007 20:49:33.0714 (UTC) FILETIME=[407E1F20:01C7F96C] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4765; t=1190062323; x=1190926323; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=Uuh+LMWBTix3ysb7ZVC7S0la4V49Oys5BKq3x0eXP2M=; b=GGZlext/ZhKNi1KwuOnO2Mqzm1rOY75AGbr0lOx67ZfzB9YtXxY1XhGlIU942B+7EUyhJaNj IKKzLGxDCD4uBpJ/nzMuJYIpnTLd+/JRxfvUqF76XBU5nBjMkI1qTVM8; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4765; t=1190062188; x=1190926188; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20; bh=Uuh+LMWBTix3ysb7ZVC7S0la4V49Oys5BKq3x0eXP2M=; b=qeEDnctqDFdfPy3/mTbRlLRQc/40DF6EVzV6kx1E1poNxEvjFfBVjvq/UBkMp2n5zcgDTLDr XJFyDL31tlUKoI5CU84krmrp9XENAZOTCJc4CnUC+mHxiJdP30pAldP47E1MWJo5p6JcwJlZYw dKjgBZqpKD/djgEggqFRoFlOU=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 03169bfe4792634a390035a01a6c6d2f There are no changes now.. But let me review this thread and reply.. R Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: > >>Hi Vlad, >> >>I'm adding Randy here... As far as I know, 2960bis is in >>AUTH48 state, so there can only be editorial comments anymore. >>If it has not already passed it... > > > Crud... I guess adding: > > "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the > receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and > take no further action." > > To section 8.4, item 5 could be considered editorial, but that's > a hard sell. > > I does document state of the art though... > > I'll live with whatever outcome. > > Thanks > -vlad > > >>Best regards >>Michael >> >>On Sep 17, 2007, at 8:57 PM, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> >> >>>Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>> >>>>Vlad, >>>> >>>>Sorry, I did not read enough into your original email... >>>> >>>>I think this case is addressed in the sctp-threats I-D.. that is, >>>>an endpoint should not send back multiple packets in response to >>>>a single received packet. >>>> >>>>Thus, the case of N bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs should elicit a single >>>>packet with one SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE chunk, as it can't be bundled >>>>with any other chunks. >>>> >>>>As Brian points out, there are no chunks that I know of that one >>>>would send after a SHUTDOWN-ACK that would require any real >>>>response... so no other outgoing packet should happen. In other >>>>words, since only one packet should go out, it would be the >>>>SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. >>>> >>>>The BSD implementation does exactly what you say... it disregards >>>>any bundled chunks after a SHUTDOWN-ACK in a packet. >>>> >>>>If this isn't clear from the threats I-D, perhaps the text there >>>>can be clarified. >>> >>>I thought that the goal was to put resolutions from the threats ID into >>>2960bis? Adding the sentence that I provided below would essentially >>>document the current behavior of multiple (if not all implementations) >>>and preclude new implementors from going through this again. >>> >>>Thanks >>>-vlad >>> >>> >>>>--peter >>>> >>>> >>>>Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>>> >>>>>Brian >>>>> >>>>>Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Vlad, >>>>>> >>>>>>It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>>>>>The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK >>>>>>is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would >>>>>>not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that >>>>>>makes sense? >>>>> >>>>>I am not talking about things that make sense. These are OOTB packet >>>>>and an implementation should be prepared to deal with anything that >>>>>comes along. >>>>> >>>>>The case of 300 bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs comes to mind. The way the >>>>>OOTB handling is specified, an implementation would send 300 SHUTDOWN >>>>>COMPLETES, which could be considered an attack. >>>>> >>>>>-vlad >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>--brian >>>>>> >>>>>>On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Peter >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>>>>>>>will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>>>>>>>SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>>>>>>>quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>>>>>>>get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response >>>>>>>to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with >>>>>>>this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still >>>>>>>have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible >>>>>>>response is an ABORT. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 >>>>>>>packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be >>>>>>> separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. ABORT in response to HB. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>What I am talking about is to add text like >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the >>>>>>> receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and >>>>>>> take no further action." >>>>>>> >>>>>>>to the paragraph in item 5. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent with >>>>>>>OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-vlad >>> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Mon Sep 17 16:52:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXNZc-0005RJ-OY for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:52:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXNZc-0003yx-3Z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:52:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2007 16:52:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8HKq3GK030804; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:52:03 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8HKp5ci010588; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:51:05 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8HKn1iS003992 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:49:01 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8HKn1xU003988 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:49:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,265,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="524821015" Message-Id: <46EEE820.3040002@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:48:32 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20070601 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Vlad Yasevich , "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> <962F9B51-55FB-49A2-9BFA-76694EEEF661@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <962F9B51-55FB-49A2-9BFA-76694EEEF661@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 17 Sep 2007 20:48:56.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[2A720C50:01C7F96C] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4398; t=1190062323; x=1190926323; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=BnY573Tg8UN9qz0iJSBAt4DHRkof7k101vCCffjpZn4=; b=oeVlC9p1x4xBMjQKVIcHh0bWr/c71JlmVOuJp432UbuMDFKb3rFbxJwcybXz7v9pUspj3qdE XeoPMjwEJ9EISm5yaOJMOD40G+xibEjoKKJAnscUJ1CRNXnjPdeJdpQA; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4398; t=1190062140; x=1190926140; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20; bh=BnY573Tg8UN9qz0iJSBAt4DHRkof7k101vCCffjpZn4=; b=PfAISGA3GJaXvoKjLrI6TLHfNFdeZcJtP+EQht1ITPYaZhpPvBmBRIY2Qc6Wccv8CR1Qh3QW 88TaZL89Y4gljCwCvRigu0v0vvpd5BRWKVMfurJAQDPrjkvb5hM+fVtH; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68ba2b07ef271dba6ee42a93832cfa4c Its gone past 48.. let me get settled (just got to the mother ship).. and then I will spend some time thinking about if we did not take care of this already.. R Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Vlad, > > I'm adding Randy here... As far as I know, 2960bis is in > AUTH48 state, so there can only be editorial comments anymore. > If it has not already passed it... > > Best regards > Michael > > On Sep 17, 2007, at 8:57 PM, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > >> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >> >>> Vlad, >>> >>> Sorry, I did not read enough into your original email... >>> >>> I think this case is addressed in the sctp-threats I-D.. that is, >>> an endpoint should not send back multiple packets in response to >>> a single received packet. >>> >>> Thus, the case of N bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs should elicit a single >>> packet with one SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE chunk, as it can't be bundled >>> with any other chunks. >>> >>> As Brian points out, there are no chunks that I know of that one >>> would send after a SHUTDOWN-ACK that would require any real >>> response... so no other outgoing packet should happen. In other >>> words, since only one packet should go out, it would be the >>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. >>> >>> The BSD implementation does exactly what you say... it disregards >>> any bundled chunks after a SHUTDOWN-ACK in a packet. >>> >>> If this isn't clear from the threats I-D, perhaps the text there >>> can be clarified. >> >> >> I thought that the goal was to put resolutions from the threats ID into >> 2960bis? Adding the sentence that I provided below would essentially >> document the current behavior of multiple (if not all implementations) >> and preclude new implementors from going through this again. >> >> Thanks >> -vlad >> >>> >>> --peter >>> >>> >>> Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >>>> >>>>> Vlad, >>>>> >>>>> It doesn't make much sense to bundle a HEARBEAT with a SHUTDOWN- ACK. >>>>> The only chunk that I know of that can be bundled with SHUTDOWN-ACK >>>>> is an ERROR chunk (cookie received while shutting down) which would >>>>> not illicit an ABORT. Can you think of another bundled chunk that >>>>> makes sense? >>>> >>>> I am not talking about things that make sense. These are OOTB packet >>>> and an implementation should be prepared to deal with anything that >>>> comes along. >>>> >>>> The case of 300 bundled SHUTDOWN-ACKs comes to mind. The way the >>>> OOTB handling is specified, an implementation would send 300 SHUTDOWN >>>> COMPLETES, which could be considered an attack. >>>> >>>> -vlad >>>> >>>>> --brian >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>>>>>> will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>>>>>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>>>>>> quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>>>>>> get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). >>>>>> >>>>>> But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response >>>>>> to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. >>>>>> >>>>>> The question is the bundled chunks that came might have come with >>>>>> this OOTB SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE. The way text is now, we still >>>>>> have to process those other chunks, but the only other possible >>>>>> response is an ABORT. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example, SHUTDOWN ACK + HEARTBEAT would result in 2 >>>>>> packets if implementation conforms strictly to the text: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. SHUTDOWN COMPLETE in response to SHUTDOWN ACK has to be >>>>>> separte, because you MUST NOT bundle anything with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. ABORT in response to HB. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I am talking about is to add text like >>>>>> >>>>>> "After sending this SHUTDOWN COMPLETE, the >>>>>> receiver of the OOTB packet shall discard the OOTB packet and >>>>>> take no further action." >>>>>> >>>>>> to the paragraph in item 5. >>>>>> >>>>>> This, in essence, disregards any bundled chunks that were sent with >>>>>> OOTB SHUTDOWN ACK. >>>>>> >>>>>> -vlad >> >> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From garson@msn.com Mon Sep 17 20:38:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXR74-0008Lh-9a for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:38:50 -0400 Received: from host-62-10-78-107.cust-adsl.tiscali.it ([62.10.78.107]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXR6u-0007Pg-R7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:38:47 -0400 Received: from [62.10.78.107] by ns3.msft.net; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 00:37:20 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c7f98c$01a17c4a$46040580@yarswa> From: "bevan udell" To: Subject: If you have your own business Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:49:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7F98C.01A11851" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7F98C.01A11851 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No Hassle Business Loans! 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     ------=_NextPart_000_0000_1C9DCAE3.845C5B3E-- From rrs@cisco.com Tue Sep 18 08:03:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXbni-0007PJ-PG for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:03:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXbnc-0005LY-L4 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:03:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2007 08:03:23 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8IC3MDU007757; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:03:22 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8IC24ci021397; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:02:04 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8IBxC6q019174 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:59:12 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8IBxCnG019170 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:59:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,268,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="220179271" Message-Id: <46EFBD6A.2@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:58:34 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20070601 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 18 Sep 2007 11:59:10.0422 (UTC) FILETIME=[52BEDF60:01C7F9EB] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1240; t=1190117003; x=1190981003; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=/O2faqsAe2Oo9ZjlTBygx9FzErMePhln3pY1+2GU/6o=; b=MoJzOxjsrk/a3/YK4WMFWrb+c2a51/SIEQwqKDOo6Rxras3pSs+sH/PggLKuWsnOMmRI0Exc JZYQn85Z7V2hF4u32KGU6YIjs1ucDs+pY8kMttEyz8nAwKWvSNyR+sOH; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1240; t=1190116751; x=1190980751; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20; bh=/O2faqsAe2Oo9ZjlTBygx9FzErMePhln3pY1+2GU/6o=; b=b4/ady2YbKi22nYooi8OUmvX7O3KkqIk0mEn3a8YEsRz8m7FoiHzGSrGpsIlD1b+dGKIQfDc kwgHKuVJgyA8ESDt64mJbkFDP07idt4N0u2d2HKWkPaIIgrMzl+kWNOX; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Peter > > Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: > >>What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >> >>Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). > > > But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response > to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. > Vlad: I want to stay focused on the "valid case" first... before I look at the malicious case. I don't grok your statement: " But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. " Your original question was, If I have no TCB (after I have shutdown) and I get a SHUTDOWN-ACK why would I not just drop it silently. The answer Peter gave was... Well the SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE could have been lost. Thinking of the normal case, not the attack case does this make sense to you now? If so what was the meaning of the sentence above.. Thanks R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Tue Sep 18 09:11:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXcr5-0000je-NX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:11:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXcr2-0002Yf-C6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:11:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2007 09:11:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8IDB3TG032637; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:11:03 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8IDAAci012679; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:10:10 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8ID8XAZ020326 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:08:33 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8ID8X5F020322 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:08:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMpq70acmf/VrGdsb2JhbACOEAICAgEEBAYPGA X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,268,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="46518444" Message-Id: <46EFCD51.7020606@hp.com> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:06:25 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard [bundled] OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <46EFBD6A.2@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46EFBD6A.2@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Hi Randy Randall Stewart wrote: > Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> Peter >> >> Peter Lei (peterlei) wrote: >> >>> What if the peer lost your "real" SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE?... It >>> will then continue to send you SHUTDOWN-ACK until it gets a >>> SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE, or overall shutdown guard timer expires. >>> >>> Hence, the below text allows this condition to be be more >>> quickly handled as a normal shutdown (e.g. the peer would >>> get a SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE vs. abort or timeout). >> >> >> But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response >> to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. >> > > Vlad: > > I want to stay focused on the "valid case" first... before I look > at the malicious case. > > I don't grok your statement: > " > But it would still get my SHUTDOWN-COMPLETE that was a response > to the SHUTDOWN-ACK. > " > > Your original question was, > > If I have no TCB (after I have shutdown) and I get a SHUTDOWN-ACK > why would I not just drop it silently. The subject is misleading (I forgot to add "bundled" to the line). The, the question I was _really_ asking is: If I get an OOTB packet with SHUTDOWN-ACK bundled with other chunks, why not simply drop the packet after processing SHUTDOWN-ACK. I am looking specifically at the OOTB case where SHUTDOWN-ACK is not the only chunk in the packet. Thanks -vlad From aaa12133301hghh@aaa.com Tue Sep 18 09:46:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXdPj-00013b-6q for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:46:55 -0400 Received: from [116.21.209.32] (helo=aaa.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXdPc-0003Nz-RM for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:46:51 -0400 From: "runxin88808@126.com " Subject: =?GB2312?B?xrG+3bT6wO0=?= To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain;charset="GB2312" Reply-To: aaa@aaa.com Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:46:46 +0800 X-Priority: 2 X-Mailer: FoxMail 3.11 Release [cn] X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 ¹ó¹«Ë¾¸ºÔðÈË(¾­Àí/²ÆÎñ£©ÄúºÃ£º ÎÒÊǹãÖÝÊÐÈóÐÂʵҵÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾µÄ£¨ÉîÛÚ¡¢¶«Ý¸¡¢ÉϺ£¡¢ÏÃÃÅ¡¢º¼ÖÝ¡¢ËÕÖݵȵؾùÓÐ ·Ö¹«Ë¾£©¡£ÎÒ˾ʵÁ¦ÐÛºñ£¬ÓÐ×ÅÁ¼ºÃµÄÉç»á¹Øϵ¡£Òò½øÏî½Ï¶àÏÖÍê³É²»ÁËÿÔÂÏúÊÛ¶î¶È¡£ ÿÔÂÓÐÒ»²¿·ÖÔöֵ˰µçÄÔ·¢Æ±6%ºÍÆÕͨ·¢Æ±ÖÖÀàÈçÏ£ºÉÌÆ·ÏúÊÛË°·¢Æ±£¬µçÄÔÔËÊ䷢Ʊ£¬ ¹ã¸æ·¢Æ±×âÁÞÒµ·¢Æ±,·þÎñÒµ·¢Æ±µÈ (¹úË°µØË°£©1-2%ÓŻݴú¿ª»òºÏ×÷£¬µãÊý½ÏµÍ¡£»¹¿É ÒÔ¸ù¾ÝËù×öÊýÁ¿¶î¶ÈµÄ´óСÀ´ÉÌÌÖÓŻݵĵãÊý£¬¹«Ë¾³ÉÁ¢¶àÄêÒ»Ö±¼á³ÖÒÔ¡°³ÏÐÅ¡±ÎªÖÐ ÐÄ×÷Ϊ¹«Ë¾µÄºËÐÄ˼Ïë¡¢ÀιÌÊ÷Á¢¹«Ë¾ÐÎÏ󣬱¾¹«Ë¾Ö£ÖسÐŵËùÓþø¶ÔÊÇÕæƱ£¡¸üÏ£Íû Äܹ»Óлú»áÓë¹ó˾ºÏ×÷£¡ ¡¡¡¡ Èç¹ó˾ÔÚ·¢Æ±µÄÕæα·½ÃæÓÐÈκÎÒÉÂÇ»òµ£ÐÄ£¬¿ÉÉÏÍø²éÖ¤»òÎÒ˾ֱ½ÓÓë¹ó˾ȥ˰Îñ¾Ö µÖ¿ÛºË¶Ô¡£ ´ËÐÅÏ¢³¤ÆÚÓÐЧ£¬ÈçÐë½øÒ»²½Ç¢ÉÌ: ¡¡¡¡ÊÖ »ú:13631413607 ÓÊ Ï䣺runxin88808@126.com ¡¡¡¡ÁªÏµÈË£ºÀî¹úÇì ˳ף ÉÌì÷£¡ ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¹ãÖÝÊÐÈóÐÂʵҵÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾ From rrs@cisco.com Tue Sep 18 11:02:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXeaw-0005es-6m for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:02:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXeap-0000Y4-4V for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:02:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2007 11:02:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8IF2BMU003086; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:02:11 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8IF19gW006890; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:01:09 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8IF02ks022080 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:00:02 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8IF02nB022076 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:00:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,269,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="399843340" Message-Id: <46EFC04B.1010405@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:10:51 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20070601 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 18 Sep 2007 14:59:52.0738 (UTC) FILETIME=[91450020:01C7FA04] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1492; t=1190127731; x=1190991731; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=tBiubLwui5Bj9mDZNarGTCC/BQknnpRMOGdfusrXnRg=; b=GBd2kUcdRZV7jJ1aU0s8SAk+EeHufPZT7acJhVZ8T9WfAwcpfYS6RZNatCw/WwJRRvDVmeS3 0iJ2KzeRGZuZwsaCvLF8aPBgOv5h5RzvOROD1BmzYOdMRob+tbNqPW0f; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1492; t=1190127600; x=1190991600; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20; bh=tBiubLwui5Bj9mDZNarGTCC/BQknnpRMOGdfusrXnRg=; b=QJgzcfNCgSsiS2phbCB5KavJsV/bIzErUFtxkQcRUL9qvbAvbgmxFuvU5Vce+5MT8HSCPSyB /ZN3OkySFO9oKo2vRPcPbEwPuv8kG1OFQ4Tp6wX/0FBAU9jjPAzIar7y; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Vlad: Ok let me direct you to a section of the text I bet you have not concentrated upon ... security :-D .. This section was added due to this issue: In section 11.4 " When an SCTP stack receives a packet containing multiple control or DATA chunks and the processing of the packet requires the sending of multiple chunks in response, the sender of the response chunk(s) MUST NOT send more than one packet. If bundling is supported, multiple response chunks that fit into a single packet MAY be bundled together into one single response packet. If bundling is not supported, then the sender MUST NOT send more than one response chunk and MUST discard all other responses. Note that this rule does NOT apply to a SACK chunk, since a SACK chunk is, in itself, a response to DATA and a SACK does not require a response of more DATA. " So its there.. you just have to make sure and do it.. And note, from day 1 both the BSD implementation and the previous reference implementation (the original user space verision that Qiaobing and I kept up to date has we worked on the original SCTP implementation) always did as described above. So if you sent 100 HB's bundled, you get 100 HB-ack's bundled in one packet back. Shutdowns are as Peter described.. and have always been (at least as far back as I can remember :-D) R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From Mihail.lampshire@afrosurf.com Tue Sep 18 11:09:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXehe-0004Ci-G1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:09:30 -0400 Received: from [80.94.112.233] (helo=[80.94.112.233]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXeha-0005W7-Tl for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:09:27 -0400 Received: by 10.49.15.56 with SMTP id SAAjtPpmHzuvI; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:09:41 +0200 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.197.239 with SMTP id PENxZBLJTELhAl.7741511903559; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:09:39 +0200 (GMT) Message-ID: <7E0C2F57.8321BAB4@afrosurf.com> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:09:36 +0200 From: "Mihail lampshire" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: detoner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Good night sctp-impl-archive His penis wasn’t big enough to reach the most sensitive parts of my vagina Mihail lampshire http://dbuis.com/ From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Tue Sep 18 11:45:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXfGT-0006KF-JQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:45:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXfGT-00075B-9H for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:45:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2007 11:45:30 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8IFjSFB028176; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:45:28 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8IFiqci020067; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:44:52 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8IFhjYn022724 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:43:45 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8IFhj93022720 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:43:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.205 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJyP70acmf/Npmdsb2JhbACOEAICAgUEBg8W X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,269,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="31177030" Message-Id: <46EFF1CE.9050008@hp.com> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:42:06 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> <46EFC04B.1010405@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46EFC04B.1010405@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Randall Stewart wrote: > Vlad: > > Ok let me direct you to a section of the text I bet you > have not concentrated upon ... security :-D .. This section > was added due to this issue: > > In section 11.4 > " > When an SCTP stack receives a packet containing multiple control or > DATA chunks and the processing of the packet requires the sending of > multiple chunks in response, the sender of the response chunk(s) MUST > NOT send more than one packet. If bundling is supported, multiple > response chunks that fit into a single packet MAY be bundled together > into one single response packet. If bundling is not supported, then > the sender MUST NOT send more than one response chunk and MUST > discard all other responses. Note that this rule does NOT apply to a > SACK chunk, since a SACK chunk is, in itself, a response to DATA and > a SACK does not require a response of more DATA. > " > > So its there.. you just have to make sure and do it.. Aha... that's were it is! Now to audit all that code... Thanks -vlad From rrs@cisco.com Tue Sep 18 14:19:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXhf2-00083M-Sv for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:19:00 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXhew-00069f-A2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:19:00 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2007 14:18:51 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8IIIoJX010503; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:18:50 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8IIHYci016288; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:17:34 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8IIEF2Z025481 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:14:15 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8IIEFhA025477 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:14:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,269,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="525267014" Message-Id: <46F01558.30509@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:13:44 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20070601 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Why not discard OOTB SHUTDOWN-ACK? References: <46EEA227.2020405@hp.com> <46EEA54D.40109@cisco.com> <46EEB82E.90605@hp.com> <20070917113718.D19830@openss7.org> <46EEC19A.2070101@hp.com> <46EECAEA.10702@cisco.com> <46EECE1D.9080706@hp.com> <46EFC04B.1010405@cisco.com> <46EFF1CE.9050008@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46EFF1CE.9050008@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 18 Sep 2007 18:14:09.0746 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5634320:01C7FA1F] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1649; t=1190139530; x=1191003530; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=4lKMoTfbK9hqMm9VzSgg7uq+TkpyNz+CUge3Yd66Yn0=; b=MXmKSe2uhQwd3xVlvS37YvD089UyM1qnNzt0ZgNUfDuSjk5HeIxopuYbyMOsPXb5BeOsZ/r6 y0m+UDn32pa0ERheMI9eWD5wA8pMNSKnV4CC4h+7Y+eTDkBSemnFpZtq; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1649; t=1190139250; x=1191003250; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Why=20not=20discard=20OOTB=20SHUTDOWN-ACK? |Sender:=20; bh=4lKMoTfbK9hqMm9VzSgg7uq+TkpyNz+CUge3Yd66Yn0=; b=AIuu6H4ja6Z59AAGsqHvwbJLeoCbX1Cnd6F/4Ux6Xgx7MTUBcEWoiw6ElXxG/12X/6atB1+P I0pMSSDes/ffA4knrJnr0B129/aTyOn+5Sygq/QbaUPbXNA9B7yYNNsW; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >>Vlad: >> >>Ok let me direct you to a section of the text I bet you >>have not concentrated upon ... security :-D .. This section >>was added due to this issue: >> >>In section 11.4 >>" >> When an SCTP stack receives a packet containing multiple control or >> DATA chunks and the processing of the packet requires the sending of >> multiple chunks in response, the sender of the response chunk(s) MUST >> NOT send more than one packet. If bundling is supported, multiple >> response chunks that fit into a single packet MAY be bundled together >> into one single response packet. If bundling is not supported, then >> the sender MUST NOT send more than one response chunk and MUST >> discard all other responses. Note that this rule does NOT apply to a >> SACK chunk, since a SACK chunk is, in itself, a response to DATA and >> a SACK does not require a response of more DATA. >>" >> >>So its there.. you just have to make sure and do it.. > > > Aha... that's were it is! > > Now to audit all that code... > > Thanks > -vlad > Yes security sections often times are seen as "blah blah blah ...", sort of like the Adult conversations on a Charlie Brown cartoon :-D... but they do tend to have good information in them. We put it there so we did not have to rip up large amounts of the document.. it made sense and is a clean place for it.. and I think a correct one too... 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I'm not sure if my understanding of 3 rfc2960's retrans counters (Path.Max.Retrans, Max.Init.Retransmits, Association.Max.Retrans) is correct. Below is meta code of function that is called when Init Timer (t1) expires. InitTimerHandler() { assocRetransCount++; primaryAddress->retransCount++; if (primaryAddress->retransCount > Path.Max.Retrans) { mark primaryAddress as failed; primaryAddress = findAnotherActiveDestination(); if (primaryAddress == NULL) { close association; } } if (assocRetransCount > Max.Init.Retransmits) { close association; } if (assocRetransCount > Association.Max.Retrans) { close association; } adjust init timeout; send init chunk to primaryAddress; start init timer; } Max.Init.Retransmits should be smaller than Association.Max.Retrans, so checking 'assocRetransCount > Association.Max.Retrans' is not probably necessary, but just to be on the safe side :-) My question is: Is above suggested checking of Path.Max.Retrans and Max.Init.Retransmits limits in combination with multihomed destination correct? Didn't I miss anything? Thank you very much in advance for any comments. Regards, Petr From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Tue Sep 25 09:37:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IaAbM-0003Rl-7T for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:37:24 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IaAbH-00084e-Sc for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:37:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Sep 2007 09:37:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8PDbJP5003237; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:37:19 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8PDZSYc023771; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:36:33 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l8PDXZcj009243 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:33:35 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l8PDXYAK009239 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:33:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.151.27.10 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAIWr+EbAlxsK/2dsb2JhbAA X-Ironport-Av: E=Sophos;i="4.20,295,1186383600"; d="scan'208";a="48932604" Message-Id: <46F90D55.9060303@hp.com> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:29:57 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070830) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: krax@email.cz CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Association initialization & retrans counters References: <444.3312-7864-1047997698-1190717861@email.cz> In-Reply-To: <444.3312-7864-1047997698-1190717861@email.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 krax@email.cz wrote: > Hello, > > I have question related to association initialization when the destination is multihomed. > I'm not sure if my understanding of 3 rfc2960's retrans counters (Path.Max.Retrans, Max.Init.Retransmits, Association.Max.Retrans) is correct. > Below is meta code of function that is called when Init Timer (t1) expires. > > InitTimerHandler() { > assocRetransCount++; > primaryAddress->retransCount++; > > if (primaryAddress->retransCount > Path.Max.Retrans) { > mark primaryAddress as failed; > primaryAddress = findAnotherActiveDestination(); > if (primaryAddress == NULL) { > close association; This is very conservative. You might want to continue probing until Max.Init.Retransmits. > } > } > > if (assocRetransCount > Max.Init.Retransmits) { > close association; > } You may want to check this before checking the Path.Max.Retrans. If Max.Init.Retransmits is exceeded, you should close the association. > > if (assocRetransCount > Association.Max.Retrans) { > close association; > } You don't need this check. Init/Cookie-echo retransmissions are bounded by Max.Init.Retransmits. Other retransmissions (DATA, HB, etc..) are bounded by Association.Max.Retrans -vlad > > adjust init timeout; > send init chunk to primaryAddress; > start init timer; > } > > Max.Init.Retransmits should be smaller than Association.Max.Retrans, so checking 'assocRetransCount > Association.Max.Retrans' is not probably necessary, but just to be on the safe side :-) > My question is: Is above suggested checking of Path.Max.Retrans and Max.Init.Retransmits limits in combination with multihomed destination correct? 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Wins Contract for Command Center Monitoring and Video Conferencing System from Beijing Municipal Water Bureau Tuesday September 11, 12:24 pm ET BOCA RATON, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--China Voice Holding Corporation (CHVC) (OTC:CHVC - News), a provider of Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) communications, Office Automation, Video Conferencing and Wireless Solutions for government, businesses and consumers in the United States and the People's Republic of China, announced today that its Chinese Subsidiary, Beijing Techview System Engineering Co. LTD (BTSE) has been awarded a contract to provide a Command Center monitoring and video conferencing system for Beijing Municipal Water Bureau. The estimated value of the Contract is between $600,000 and $750,000. The Beijing Municipal Water Bureau manages all local water resources in Beijing City which include surface water, ground water and aerial water. 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This is one of many BTSE installations that we will be announcing over the coming weeks and again confirms the Company's momentum and standing as a valued and trusted Service Provider of next generation technologies in highly sensitive and secure environments." Beijing Techview System Engineering Co. LTD (BTSE) is a Value-Added Reseller and Systems Integrator that specializes in network design and installation, integrated wiring construction, and network equipment, with its primary focus on providing large video conferencing solutions. The Company's projects include computer and telecommunications network construction, intelligent building construction, product development, network product sales, technical consulting, and information services. In Beijing, the Company is a high level authorized dealer for Cisco Systems, HuiWei, 3Com, Polycom Video products, NEC Monitors and many other IT products. 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("CHVC") is a U.S. public holding company headquartered in South Florida with a portfolio of next-generation communications products and services doing business in the People's Republic of China and the U.S. Through its subsidiaries, the Company provides Voice over Internet Protocol ("VoIP") telephone services, office automation, wireless broadband, unified messaging, video conferencing, mobility services and other advanced voice and data services in China where the Company has obtained full legal status as a licensed telecommunications company. The Chinese telecommunications market is the largest and fastest growing in the world, with 812 million fixed land line and mobile phone subscribers as of September of 2006. As of December 2006, China had 137 million Internet users, an increase of 23% over 2005. China is expected to overtake the United States as the country with the largest number of Internet users in approximately two years. 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    ----p55bb6crmq9olf8t4a3h5sfo3gsm3mq-- From tss@caldwell.k12.tx.us Wed Sep 26 22:43:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IajLI-0006r8-Hh for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:43:08 -0400 Received: from [201.240.55.117] (helo=client-201.240.55.117.speedy.net.pe) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IajLF-00088m-4V for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:43:06 -0400 Received: from [201.240.55.117] by ; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 -03:32:30 -0500 From: "Sonia Tobin" To: Subject: * )(( *:(((... Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 -03:32:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01c8004b$8fe44c70$7537f0c9@tss> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Sy]m:b.oool F!D(E[G Price 0.04 Ta rg*et 0.12 From druidequinox.com@operationink.com Wed Sep 26 22:49:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IajRt-0004sw-LK for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:49:57 -0400 Received: from [116.77.54.67] (helo=uirhft) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IajRq-0007x4-1A for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:49:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000201c800b1$d0104e00$0100007f@sbxmuh> From: "Jake Anderson" To: Subject: Why be an average guy any longer Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:58:20 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01C800B1.D0104E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C800B1.D0104E00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0063_01C800B1.D0104E00" ------=_NextPart_001_0063_01C800B1.D0104E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. http://www.dleaxou.biz/ ----- Clare smiled. Hes already marr Aye, he is, Johanna agreed. Bu You are so fortunate, Johanna. Why is that, Clare? You love y ------=_NextPart_001_0063_01C800B1.D0104E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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d="scan'208";a="20501309" Message-Id: <46FC2A02.7030703@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:09:06 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20070601 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: krax@email.cz, sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Association initialization & retrans counters References: <444.3312-7864-1047997698-1190717861@email.cz> <46F90D55.9060303@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46F90D55.9060303@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 27 Sep 2007 22:09:48.0131 (UTC) FILETIME=[1E3D5B30:01C80153] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2271; t=1190931474; x=1191795474; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Association=20initialization=20&=20retrans=20counters |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=QXG9jKXu6NnEVZHwYlZHgwhyJYB7c7uqNBvw+2PB8+E=; b=oWeKWtpq9gbOCS4dxD0PMQUiMk34oYGt6fz0rppu2miZsWzJeYzkTrGWIaWJaNRNhhL8H8D0 kdT7XqwgphCJoZ0BXyLE8HRi6HIFooPlUU2NKiLm3mGJbuHl8rw0+wuA; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2271; t=1190930994; x=1191794994; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Association=20initialization=20&=20retrans=20counters |Sender:=20; bh=QXG9jKXu6NnEVZHwYlZHgwhyJYB7c7uqNBvw+2PB8+E=; b=l7tVwgMq1WommuCVUeBJrEwL4yRUhnwsXjiszlApMVvbLTG0uzFSydjLdlGgKhF2TT+ImCTX xfcjT17iyOJ461Fj2vCm0Cvgggq3TP36FU5b8fyPZv1S/aac7TGTc5dV; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 Vlad Yasevich wrote: > krax@email.cz wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I have question related to association initialization when the >> destination is multihomed. >> I'm not sure if my understanding of 3 rfc2960's retrans counters >> (Path.Max.Retrans, Max.Init.Retransmits, Association.Max.Retrans) is >> correct. >> Below is meta code of function that is called when Init Timer (t1) >> expires. >> >> InitTimerHandler() { >> assocRetransCount++; >> primaryAddress->retransCount++; >> if (primaryAddress->retransCount > Path.Max.Retrans) { >> mark primaryAddress as failed; >> primaryAddress = findAnotherActiveDestination(); >> if (primaryAddress == NULL) { >> close association; > > > This is very conservative. You might want to continue probing > until Max.Init.Retransmits. I agree, It is allowed to "close the association" but BSD never does this.. we go into the "dormant" state.. but in this case we would continue sending INIT's > >> } >> } >> if (assocRetransCount > Max.Init.Retransmits) { >> close association; >> } > > > You may want to check this before checking the Path.Max.Retrans. > If Max.Init.Retransmits is exceeded, you should close the association. > >> if (assocRetransCount > Association.Max.Retrans) { >> close association; >> } > > > You don't need this check. Init/Cookie-echo retransmissions are bounded by > Max.Init.Retransmits. Other retransmissions (DATA, HB, etc..) are bounded > by Association.Max.Retrans Yep.. Agree 100% :-) R > > -vlad > >> adjust init timeout; >> send init chunk to primaryAddress; >> start init timer; >> } >> >> Max.Init.Retransmits should be smaller than Association.Max.Retrans, >> so checking 'assocRetransCount > Association.Max.Retrans' is not >> probably necessary, but just to be on the safe side :-) >> My question is: Is above suggested checking of Path.Max.Retrans and >> Max.Init.Retransmits limits in combination with multihomed destination >> correct? 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C803B9.57546180--