From nobody Mon Dec 1 06:47:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB6A1A1BE6 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 06:47:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZJ2XiBy1Df6t for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 06:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub021-ca-1.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-1.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.22.168]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65FE01A1BD1 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 06:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-1.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.30]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 06:46:28 -0800 From: Ron Parker To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" , "Stewart Bryant (stbryant)" Thread-Topic: Some concerns about draft-ietf-sfc-architecture Thread-Index: AQHP/rWshxQ4ady89E6q0aScYPtEIpx6m4aAgABMSFA= Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 14:46:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5463BD7D.6000007@cisco.com> <5463C03D.3040202@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [50.203.66.100] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E775B01MBX021W3CA2exch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/5kJsQxACESdbnqEaII7CNvwOg2M Cc: "draft-ietf-sfc-architecture@tools.ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] Some concerns about draft-ietf-sfc-architecture X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 14:47:06 -0000 --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E775B01MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carlos, A few comments regarding your responses... regarding: Classification: Locally instantiated policy and customer/network/ service profile matching of traffic flows for identification of appropriate outbound forwarding actions. SB> Isn't it really SB> Locally instantiated matching of traffic flows against policy for SB> subsequent application of the required set of network service functions= . SB> The policy may be ustomer/network/service specific. Yes, I think this is a good change. WG, any concerns? I agree that the suggested change is good. Regarding: Service Function Chain (SFC): A service function chain defines a set of abstract service functions and ordering constraints that must SB> Isn't the SFC also ordered? be applied to packets and/or frames selected as a result of classification. SB> Packets, or higher order constructs like flows? You cannot SB> do some of the SFs packet by packet I agree with adding "flows". I like "flows" here, too. Also agree that "ordered" is an important aspec= t. Regarding: SB> Isn't an important class of classifiers one that learns state from the SB> egress packets/flows that is then used to provide state for the SB> return packets/flow Isn't that a way to provide synchronization? I have a nagging feeling that the architecture doc should add a section on = unidirectional vs. symmetrically bidirectional flows and the optimizations = and/or simplifications that can be realized when the policy is such that sy= mmetrically bidirectional flows are utilized. From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Pignataro (cpig= nata) Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:52 PM To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant) Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-architecture@tools.ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@to= ols.ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] Some concerns about draft-ietf-sfc-architecture Hi Stewart, Thanks again for your comments, and apologies for the delay - please find s= ome responses inline. On Nov 12, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Stewart Bryant (stbryant) > wrote: Correcting an error in the to list. On 12/11/2014 20:05, Stewart Bryant wrote: SB> This document lacks the precision and that I would have hoped for SB> in an architecture. I understand that the this was deliberate SB> in order to allow implementation flexibility, but I don't SB> buy that. SB> SB> What we have here is a type of layered network, and whilst SB> verbal discussions have refuted that, you have many references SB> to overlay topologies. SB> SB> This would be better understood if you described it as a layered SB> system, As mentioned before (and verbally in your reference above), that's what we = do not want to do. More below. if you only used generalized the components with fully SB> functionality, and then explained which could be NULL. In the SB> case of sub-functional components they should not be part of the SB> core architecture, but the techniques used to create a full function SB> component by assistance (the proxy) described outside the main SB> architecture. Within the context of SFC, it is important that the architecture describes = the proxy - as we are living in a world in which we want to include legacy = and not craft an fully functional architecture that ignores it. SB> SB> I understand that in part the approach used here was to allow SB> a mixture of implementation styles - the concept of explicit SB> and implicit SFE - with network layer constructs supplying the SB> implicit SFE. However it would be better to think of the use SB> of implicit SFE as a type of network recursion in which the SB> the encapsulator (which I think is distinct from the classifier) SB> chooses how to encode the SFP on the packet. SB> We can overcomplicate it in many different ways, but let's not. We can thin= k of it differently, I agree; but this is the way the WG thought about it. SB> I have a nagging concern about the way that the terms packets is SB> used in this text. The way it is used one would expect that there SB> is a one for one mapping between input and output packets, but that SB> is surely not the case. A trivial point is the case where an SF SB> needs to defragment. Although at the physical layer the units are SB> packets, there may surely be higher order constructs traveling SB> between SFs. I think this is a good point, more inline. Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02 Abstract This document describes an architecture for the specification, sb> an arch or THE arch? Updated to "the". Thanks. creation, and ongoing maintenance of Service Function Chains (SFC) in a network. It includes architectural concepts, principles, and components used in the construction of composite services through deployment of SFCs. This document does not propose solutions, protocols, or extensions to existing protocols. 1. Introduction This document describes an architecture used for the creation and sb> and or THE Ditto. ongoing maintenance of Service Function Chains (SFC) in a network. It includes architectural concepts, principles, and components. An overview of the issues associated with the deployment of end-to- end service function chains, abstract sets of service functions and their ordering constraints that create a composite service and the subsequent "steering" of traffic flows through said service functions, is described in [I-D.ietf-sfc-problem-statement]. This architecture presents a model addressing the problematic aspects of existing service deployments, including topological independence and configuration complexity. Service function chains enable composite services that are constructed from one or more service functions. 1.1. Scope This document defines a framework to realize Service Function Chaining (SFC) with minimum requirements on the physical topology of the network. The proposed solution relies on initial packet classification. Packets initially classified for handling by a set of Service Functions (SFs) in the SFC-enabled domain are then forwarded to that set of SFs for processing. SB> Are you allowed to reclassify, or do staged classification? SB> Yes you are - you say so later - but that is not implied SB> by the above. Trying to explain branching here would likely create more confusion to the = reader. This document does not make any assumption on the deployment context. The proposed framework covers both fixed and mobile networks. SB> Given that you make no deployment context assumption, surely SB> the followup mobile/fixed specific is not relevant. I disagree - it is very relevant to be explicit about the scope for both fi= xed and mobile. It's not redundant with no deployment context assumption, i= t is just a more explicit and precise set of details. This is, again, becau= se these details are relevant to real SFC deployments based on this archite= cture. The architecture described herein is assumed to be applicable to a single network administrative domain. While it is possible for the architectural principles and components to be applied to inter-domain SFCs, these are left for future study. 1.2. Assumptions The following assumptions are made: o Not all SFs can be characterized with a standard definition in terms of technical description, detailed specification, configuration, etc. o There is no global or standard list of SFs enabled in a given administrative domain. The set of SFs varies as a function of the service to be provided and according to the networking environment. o There is no global or standard SF chaining logic. The ordered set of SFs that needs to be enabled to deliver a given service is specific to each administrative entity. SB> Surely it is application specific even within an admistration? What is "application specific" in the context of a chained set of applicati= ons? o The chaining of SFs and the criteria to invoke them are specific to each administrative entity that operates an SF-enabled domain. SB? see previous See previous. Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 3] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 o Several SF chaining policies can be simultaneously applied within an administrative domain to meet various business requirements. o No assumption is made on how FIBs and RIBs of involved nodes are populated. o How to bind traffic to a given SF chain is policy-based. 1.3. Definition of Terms Network Service: An offering provided by an operator that is delivered using one or more service functions. This may also be referred to as a composite service. The term "service" is used to denote a "network service" in the context of this document. Note: Beyond this document, the term "service" is overloaded with varying definitions. For example, to some a service is an offering composed of several elements within the operator's network, whereas for others a service, or more specifically a network service, is a discrete element such as a firewall. Traditionally, such services (in the latter sense) host a set of service functions and have a network locator where the service is hosted. SB> I think that you probably need an explicit definition of service. SB> I find the text in the definition of NS self referential which is SB> not helpful. It is not self-referential, but yes, the WG struggled a bit with how to def= ine something so overloaded. I did at least. You can check the SFC charter = for a different way of dancing around it. If you have specific text suggestions, by all means, please do share. Classification: Locally instantiated policy and customer/network/ service profile matching of traffic flows for identification of appropriate outbound forwarding actions. SB> Isn't it really SB> Locally instantiated matching of traffic flows against policy for SB> subsequent application of the required set of network service functions= . SB> The policy may be ustomer/network/service specific. Yes, I think this is a good change. WG, any concerns? Classifier: An element that performs Classification. SB> A network element perhaps? An element sounds good to me. Any particular reason why you'd constrain it? Service Function Chain (SFC): A service function chain defines a set of abstract service functions and ordering constraints that must SB> Isn't the SFC also ordered? be applied to packets and/or frames selected as a result of classification. SB> Packets, or higher order constructs like flows? You cannot SB> do some of the SFs packet by packet I agree with adding "flows". The implied order may not be a linear progression as the architecture allows for SFCs that copy to more than one branch, and also allows for cases where there is flexibility in the order in which service functions need to be applied. The term service chain is often used as shorthand for service function chain. SB> See my earlier not about the apparently more restricted definition SB> I think that you need to make the generalization clearer earlier. See above. Service Function (SF): A function that is responsible for specific treatment of received packets. A Service Function can act at various layers of a protocol stack (e.g., at the network layer or other OSI layers). As a logical component, a Service Function can be realized as a virtual element or be embedded in a physical network element. One or multiple Service Functions SB> multiple or more? I guess "one or more". can be embedded in the same network element. Multiple Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 4] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 occurrences of the Service Function can exist in the same administrative domain. One or more Service Functions can be involved in the delivery of added-value services. A non-exhaustive list of abstract Service Functions includes: firewalls, WAN and application acceleration, Deep Packet Inspection (DPI), LI (Lawful Intercept), server load balancing, NAT44 [RFC3022], NAT64 [RFC6146], NPTv6 [RFC6296], HOST_ID injection, HTTP Header Enrichment functions, TCP optimizer. SB> Not sure those are abstract SFs, surely they are explicit? A firewall is an abstract SF, specific rules / policy makes it specific/con= crete/explicit. An SF may be SFC encapsulation aware, that is it receives and acts on information in the SFC encapsulation, or unaware, in which case data forwarded to the SF does not contain the SFC encapsulation. Service Function Forwarder (SFF): A service function forwarder is responsible for delivering traffic received from the network to one or more connected service functions according to information carried in the SFC encapsulation, as well as handling traffic coming back from the SF. Additionally, a service function forwarder is responsible for delivering traffic to a classifier when needed and supported, mapping out traffic to another SFF (in the same or different type of overlay), and terminating the SFP. SB> In these days of NFV it may not be received from the network. SB> Surely the traffic is native until it gets to a classifier. The SB> way you have it here it looks like the first element is the SFF SB> but I am not sure that is the case. SB> Perhaps: A service function forwarder is responsible for forwarding SB> traffic between service functions. "The network" is not "the network" that you are thinking, I suspect. I think the proposed change removes important detail - we could remove "fro= m the network". Metadata: provides the ability to exchange context information between classifiers and SFs and among SFs. SB> I think the first noun is missing in the above, but in any case SB> I think a more complete definition is needed. Text? Service Function Path (SFP): The SFP provides a level of indirection between the fully abstract notion of service chain as a sequence of abstract service functions to be delivered, and the fully specified notion of exactly which SFF/SFs the packet will visit when it actually traverses the network. By allowing the control components to specify this level of indirection, the operator may control the degree of SFF/SF selection authority that is delegated to the network. SB> You have not defined control components. SB> I think "notion" is a redundant term. SB> I am somewhat confused by your definition. SB> Is this really about the mapping of packets between an arbitrary SB> member of an SF to a specific instance of the SF? This one took the WG a lot of editing... SFC Encapsulation: The SFC Encapsulation provides at a minimum SFP identification, and is used by the SFC-aware functions, such as the SFF and SFC-aware SFs. The SFC Encapsulation is not used for network packet forwarding. In addition to SFP identification, the SFC encapsulation carries data plane context information, also referred to as metadata. SB> Surely the "SFC E is used to attach the information needed to SB> direct the packet through the ordered set of SFs, together with SB> associated metadata. An additional network layer encapsulation is need= ed SB> to carry the packet over the physical network. What is wrong with the current definition? Again, the WG invested much (on = list and in person) time to get to these. I am happy to make changes that improve the document, but I am not sure I u= nderstand the guiding force other than personal preference. Rendered Service Path (RSP): The Service Function Path is a constrained specification of where packets using a certain service chain must go. While it may be so constrained as to Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 5] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 identify the exact locations, it can also be less specific. Packets themselves are of course transmitted from and to specific places in the network, visiting a specific sequence of SFFs and SFs. This sequence of actual visits by a packet to specific SFFs and SFs in the network is known as the Rendered Service Path (RSP). This definition is included here for use by later documents, such as when solutions may need to discuss the actual sequence of locations the packets visit. SB> Not sure of the wisdom of including a definition for the future, since SB> when you use it you may need to tune the definition. OK, thanks. We want to capture the definition as part of the architecture -= not sure of the wisdom if we do not capture it. SFC-enabled Domain: A network or region of a network that implements SFC. An SFC-enabled Domain is limited to a single network administrative domain. SFC Proxy: Removes and inserts SFC encapsulation on behalf of an SFC-unaware service function. SFC proxies are logical elements. SB> Not sure considering then as logical is quite right. It depends SB> on the mapping of the operation to the physical. I could see SB> cases where they are physical. Surely the point is that they SB> may be co-located with another network function such as a router SB> an operating system component such as a hypervisor. If they are physical, the logical-physical mapping is 1:1. 2. Architectural Concepts The following sections describe the foundational concepts of service function chaining and the SFC architecture. Service Function Chaining enables the creation of composite (network) services that consist of an ordered set of Service Functions (SF) that must be applied to packets and/or frames selected as a result of classification. Each SF is referenced using an identifier that is unique within an SF-enabled domain. No IANA registry is required to store the identity of SFs. SB> I am still worried about using packets. Need to fix this as well - part of the same comment. Thanks. Obviously we operate on SB> pkts, but the operation may require the reconstuction of some SB> packet grouping typically some element of a flow before the operation SB> can be performed. A trivial example is defragmenting a packet group SB> but since we are dealing with abstract SFs we cannot specify the SB> the unit of operation. Service Function Chaining is a concept that provides for more than just the application of an ordered set of SFs to selected traffic; rather, it describes a method for deploying SFs in a way that enables dynamic ordering and topological independence of those SFs as well as the exchange of metadata between participating entities. SB> The above is a bit late in the text. I think it needs to go earlier. It's in the architectural concepts. 2.1. Service Function Chains In most networks, services are constructed as abstract sequences of SB> I don't think that are abstract in this context. SB> Are you talking about traditional (current physically instantiated SB> SFCs in the previous sentence? See above. SFs that represent SFCs. At a high level, an SFC is an abstracted view of a service that specifies the set of required SFs as well as the order in which they must be executed. SB> Again I am not sure "abstrated view" is right here Graphs, as illustrated in Figure 1, define an SFC, where each graph node represents the required existence of at least one abstract SF. Such graph nodes (SFs) can be part of zero, one, or many SFCs. A given graph node (SF) can appear one time or multiple times in a given SFC. SB> Not sure that graphs is right, since you only show the case SB> of a linear chain. The construct you are going to use is SB> graph, but that is not what the figure shows. The figure does show a graph. SFCs can start from the origination point of the service function graph (i.e.: node 1 in Figure 1), or from any subsequent node in the graph. SB> OK so are you trying to distinguish between physically and SB> SFC (the new technology) instantiated SFCS? SFs may therefore become branching nodes in the graph, with Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 6] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 those SFs selecting edges that move traffic to one or more branches. An SFC can have more than one terminus. SB> Again that is not what your figure shows. ,-+-. ,---. ,---. ,---. / \ / \ / \ / \ ( 1 )+--->( 2 )+---->( 6 )+---->( 8 ) \ / \ / \ / \ / `---' `---' `---' `---' ,-+-. ,---. ,---. ,---. ,---. / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ ( 1 )+--->( 2 )+---->( 3 )+---->( 7 )+---->( 9 ) \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / `---' `---' `---' `---' `---' ,-+-. ,---. ,---. ,---. ,---. / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ ( 1 )+--->( 7 )+---->( 8 )+---->( 4 )+---->( 7 ) \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / `---' `---' `---' `---' `---' Figure 1: Service Function Chain Graphs 2.2. Service Function Chain Symmetry SFCs may be unidirectional or bidirectional. A unidirectional SFC requires that traffic be forwarded through the ordered SFs in one direction (SF1 -> SF2 -> SF3), whereas a bidirectional SFC requires a symmetric path (SF1 -> SF2 -> SF3 and SF3 -> SF2 -> SF1), and in which the SF instances are the same in opposite directions. A hybrid SFC has attributes of both unidirectional and bidirectional SFCs; that is to say some SFs require symmetric traffic, whereas other SFs do not process reverse traffic or are independent of the corresponding forward traffic. SFCs may contain cycles; that is traffic may need to traverse one or more SFs within an SFC more than once. Solutions will need to ensure suitable disambiguation for such situations. The architectural allowance that is made for SFPs that delegate choice to the network for which SFs and/or SFFs a packet will visit creates potential issues here. A solution that allows such delegation needs to also describe how the solution ensures that those service chains that require service function chain symmetry can achieve that. Further, there are state tradeoffs in symmetry. Symmetry may be realized in several ways depending on the SFF and classifier Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 7] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 functionality. In some cases, "mirrored" classification (i.e., from Source to Destination and from Destination to Source) policy may be deployed, whereas in others shared state between classifiers may be used to ensure that symmetric flows are correctly identified, then steered along the required SFP. At a high level, there are various common cases. In a non-exhaustive way, there can be for example: a single classifier (or a small number of classifiers), in which case both incoming and outgoing flows could be recognized at the same classifier, so the synchronization would be feasible by internal mechanisms internal to the classifier. Another case is the one of stateful classifiers where several classifiers may be clustered and share state. Lastly, another case entails fully distributed classifiers, where synchronization needs to be provided through unspecified means. This is a non-comprehensive list of common cases. SB> Isn't an important class of classifiers one that learns state from the SB> egress packets/flows that is then used to provide state for the SB> return packets/flow Isn't that a way to provide synchronization? 2.3. Service Function Paths A service function path (SFP) is a mechanism used by service chaining to express the result of applying more granular policy and SB> Not sure "more granular" is needed. operational constraints to the abstract requirements of a service SB> Not sure they are abstract requirements. When you apply them they SB> are explicit. abstract adjective 1. thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual in= stances. chain (SFC). This architecture does not mandate the degree of specificity of the SFP. Architecturally, within the same SFC-enabled domain, some SFPs may be fully specified, selecting exactly which SFF and which SF are to be visited by packets using that SFP, while other SFPs may be quite vague, deferring to the SFF the decisions about the exact sequence of steps to be used to realize the SFC. The specificity may be anywhere in between these extremes. As an example of such an intermediate specificity, there may be two SFPs associated with a given SFC, where one SFP says essentially that SB> "says essentially is not a tight definition" Substituted with "specifies". any order of SFF and SF may be used as long as it is within data center 1, and where the second SFP allows the same latitude, but only within data center 2. Thus, the policies and logic of SFP selection or creation (depending upon the solution) produce what may be thought of as a constrained version of the original SFC. Since multiple policies may apply to different traffic that uses the same SFC, it also follows that there may be multiple SFPs may be associated with a single SFC. SB> So a SFP is a specific instance of a member of the set of available SFC= s SB> chosen as a result of applying policy at one or points along the SFC? The architecture allows for the same SF to be reachable through multiple SFFs. In these cases, some SFPs may constrain which SFF is used to reach which SF, while some SFPs may leave that decision to the SFF itself. Further, the architecture allows for two or more SFs to be attached to the same SFF, and possibly connected via internal means allowing more effective communication. In these cases, some solutions or Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 8] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 deployments may choose to use some form of internal inter-process or inter-VM messaging (communication behind the virtual switching element) that is optimized for such an environment. This must be coordinated with the SFF so that the service function forwarding can properly perform its job. Implementation details of such mechanisms are considered out of scope for this document, and can include a spectrum of methods: for example situations including all next-hops explicitly, others where a list of possible next-hops is provided and the selection is local, or cases with just an identifier, where all resolution is local. This architecture also allows the same SF to be part of multiple SFPs. SB> Didn't you just say that? 3. Architecture Principles Service function chaining is predicated on several key architectural principles: 1. Topological independence: no changes to the underlay network forwarding topology - implicit, or explicit - are needed to deploy and invoke SFs or SFCs. 2. Plane separation: dynamic realization of SFPs is separated from packet handling operations (e.g., packet forwarding). 3. Classification: traffic that satisfies classification rules is forwarded according to a specific SFP. For example, classification can be as simple as an explicit forwarding entry that forwards all traffic from one address into the SFP. Multiple classification points are possible within an SFC (i.e. forming a service graph) thus enabling changes/updates to the SFC by SFs. Classification can occur at varying degrees of granularity; for example, classification can use a 5-tuple, a transport port or set of ports, part of the packet payload, or it can come from external systems. SB> I think that it can surely be as a result of higher level inspections? OK, added. 4. Shared Metadata: Metadata/context data can be shared amongst SFs and classifiers, between SFs, and between external systems and SFs (e.g., orchestration). Generally speaking, metadata can be thought of as providing and sharing the result of classification SB> Just classifications, or classifications and processing operations? SB> There is gray zone between a packet forwarding system and SB> a distributed computing system and I am not sure where SFC fits, SB> nor am I sure that it makes sense to be specific at this stage. SB> It is entirely possible that an SFC consumes the packet/flow SB> rather than only having the capability to forward it between SB> in ingress and egress. (that occurs within the SFC- enabled domain, or external to it) along an SFP. For example, an external repository might provide user/subscriber information to a service chain classifier. This classifier could in turn impose Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 9] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 that information in the SFC encapsulation for delivery to the requisite SFs. The SFs could in turn utilize the user/subscriber information for local policy decisions. 5. Service definition independence: The SFC architecture does not depend on the details of SFs themselves. Additionally, no IANA registry is required to store the list of SFs. SB> Yes, but you should be careful not to preclude it. Nothing is precluding it. 6. Service function chain independence: The creation, modification, or deletion of an SFC has no impact on other SFCs. The same is true for SFPs. SB> Yes and no. What about the resource implications? 7. Heterogeneous control/policy points: The architecture allows SFs to use independent mechanisms (out of scope for this document) to populate and resolve local policy and (if needed) local classification criteria. 4. Core SFC Architecture Components At a very high level, the logical architecture of an SFC-enabled Domain comprises: SB> A list would be handy rather than just a figure, and you need SB> some text to expand on the figure. o . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . +--------------+ +------------------~~~ . | Service | SFC | Service +---+ +---+ . |Classification| Encapsulation | Function |sf1|...|sfn| +---->| Function |+---------------->| Path +---+ +---+ . +--------------+ +------------------~~~ . SFC-enabled Domain o . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Figure 2: Service Function Chain Architecture SB> This is a very confusing diagram SB> Surely the SFC encap is attached to the packet SB> The fig seems to confuse the the packets and the path. It could be the reader that is confusing a nice figure :-) I am not sure I see what you see - suggestions? The following sub-sections provide details on each logical component that form the basis of the SFC architecture. A detailed overview of how each of these architectural components interact is provided in Figure 3: SB> Well maybe, but it's not quite obvious what you are showing. SB> some overview text would help before you get into the detail. Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 10] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 +----------------+ +----------------+ | SFC-aware | | SFC-unaware | |Service Function| |Service Function| +-------+--------+ +-------+--------+ | | SFC Encapsulation No SFC Encapsulation | SFC | +---------+ +----------------+ Encapsulation +---------+ |SFC-Aware|-----------------+ \ +------------|SFC Proxy| | SF | ... ----------+ \ \ / +---------+ +---------+ \ \ \ / +-------+--------+ | SF Forwarder | | (SFF) | +-------+--------+ | SFC Encapsulation | ... SFC-enabled Domain ... | Network Overlay Transport | _,....._ ,-' `-. / `. | Network | `. / `.__ __,-' `'''' Figure 3: Service Function Chain Architecture Components SB> Coming back here after reading a bit more. Is the SFF to be considered = the SB> hub in a hub and spoke processing model for a set of SFs? If so it woul= d SB> be useful to say that up front. However that raises the issue of whethe= r SB> the single network attachment point that you show is desirable. A stand= ard SB> firewall design would not mix dirty and clean traffic, and yet that is SB> what the above appears to show. 4.1. SFC Encapsulation The SFC encapsulation enables service function path selection. It also enables the sharing of metadata/context information when such metadata exchange is required. SB> I don't think that is quite right. Surely the SB> SFC encapsulation enables to select the next SB> element of the path? The SFC encapsulation provides explicit information used to identify SB> Provides or carries? Carries. the SFP. However, the SFC encapsulation is not a transport encapsulation itself: it is not used to forward packets within the network fabric. SB> ... but surely it is a shim layer of some sort? If packets need to flow between separate physical platforms, the SFC encapsulation therefore relies on an outer network transport. SB> Surely it is network layer header specific to the inter SFC SB> transport? Transit forwarders -- such as router and switches -- simply forward SFC encapsulated packets based on the outer (non-SFC) encapsulation. SB> d/simply/ OK Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 11] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 One of the key architecture principles of SFC is that the SFC encapsulation remain transport independent. As such any network transport protocol may be used to carry the SFC encapsulated traffic. SB> Not sure I like "network transport protocol" since this is going SB> to be confused with transport layer and I am not sure whether SB> you would require a transport layer, indeed the SFE might will SB> be considered a transport layer in the classical sense. 4.2. Service Function (SF) The concept of an SF evolves; rather than being viewed as a bump in the wire, an SF becomes a resource within a specified administrative domain that is available for consumption as part of a composite service. SFs send/receive data to/from one or more SFFs. SFC-aware SFs receive this traffic with the SFC encapsulation. SB> I do not understand the above para. While the SFC architecture defines a new encapsulation - the SFC encapsulation - SB> no it does not - it is not defined in this memo. You introduce SB> the concept and define some of the characteristics of it. OK, fixed. and several logical components for the construction of SFCs, existing SF implementations may not have the capabilities to act upon or fully integrate with the new SFC encapsulation. In order to provide a mechanism for such SFs to participate in the architecture, an SFC proxy function is defined (see Section 4.6). The SFC proxy acts as a gateway between the SFC encapsulation and SFC-unaware SFs. The integration of SFC-unaware service functions is discussed in more detail in the SFC proxy section. SB> The above is confusing. Do they participate in the architecture (this SB> text)? I think that you mean that in order to employ SF instances SB> that do not understand the SFE, a proxy as a gateway between the SB> the SFE aware domain and the non-SFE aware domain. Now if it is SB> a gateway why is it not called a gateway rather than a proxy which SB> is something that does something on behalf of something else. SB> I would think that it might be a SFE proxy, but that is not quite SB> right either. This architecture allows an SF to be part of multiple SFPs and SFCs. SB> I am sure you said that before. 4.3. Service Function Forwarder (SFF) The SFF is responsible for forwarding packets and/or frames received from the network to one or more SFs associated with a given SFF using information conveyed in the SFC encapsulation. Traffic from SFs eventually returns to the same SFF, which is responsible for injecting traffic back onto the network. SB> It is not clear why it needs to be the exact same SFF Because otherwise the SF would be an SFF. The collection of SFFs and associated SFs creates a service plane overlay in which SFC-aware SFs, as well as SFC-unaware SFs reside. Within this service plane, the SFF component connects different SFs that form a service function path. SB> This conceptual model seems quite fundamental and this I SB> am surprised that it is not much earlier in the document. SB> I have been wondering why the SFC system was not considered SB> an overlay network of some sort, and was told by the authors SB> that this was not possible. The above seems at odds with that Sb> statement. SFFs maintain the requisite SFP forwarding information. SB> Maintain - as in being the control plane for this, or SB> maintain as in store? SFP forwarding information is associated with a service path identifier that is used to uniquely identify an SFP. The service forwarding state enables an SFF to identify which SFs of a given SFP should be applied, and in what order, as traffic flows through the associated SFP. While there may appear to the SFF to be only one available way to deliver the given SF, there may also be multiple choices allowed by the constraints of the SFP. If there are multiple choices, the SFF needs to preserve the property that all packets of a given flow are handled the same way, since the Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 12] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 SF may well be stateful. Additionally, the SFF may preserve the handling of packets based on other properties on top of a flow, such as a subscriber, session, or application instance identification. SB> I feel that the issue of handing higher order objects needs to have SB> been introduced much earlier in the architecture. I agree it would help - do you have a specific text addition and location? The SFF also has the information to allow it to forward packets to the next SFF after applying local service functions. Again, while there may be only a single choice available, the architecture allows for multiple choices for the next SFF. As with SFs, the solution needs to operate such that the behavior with regard to specific flows (see the Rendered Service Path) is stable. The selection of available SFs and next SFFs may be interwoven when an SFF supports multiple distinct service functions and the same service function is available at multiple SFFs. Solutions need to be clear about what is allowed in these cases. Even when the SFF supports and utilizes multiple choices, the decision as to whether to use flow-specific mechanisms or coarser grained means to ensure that the behavior of specific flows is stable is a matter for specific solutions and specific implementations. The SFF component has the following primary responsibilities: 1. SFP forwarding : Traffic arrives at an SFF from the network. The SFF determines the appropriate SF the traffic should be forwarded to via information contained in the SFC encapsulation. Post-SF, the traffic is returned to the SFF, and if needed forwarded to another SF associated with that SFF. If there is another non- local (i.e., different SFF) hop in the SFP, the SFF further encapsulates the traffic in the appropriate network transport protocol and delivers it to the network for delivery to the next SFF along the path. Related to this forwarding responsibility, an SFF should be able to interact with metadata. 2. Terminating SFPs : An SFC is completely executed when traffic has traversed all required SFs in a chain. When traffic arrives at the SFF after the last SF has finished processing it, the final SFF knows from the service forwarding state that the SFC is complete. The SFF removes the SFC encapsulation and delivers the packet back to the network for forwarding. 3. Maintaining flow state: In some cases, the SFF may be stateful. It creates flows and stores flow-centric information. This state information may be used for a range of SFP-related tasks such as ensuring consistent treatment of all packets in a given flow, ensuring symmetry or for state-aware SFC Proxy functionality (see Section 4.8). Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 13] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 4.3.1. Transport Derived SFF Service function forwarding, as described above, directly depends upon the use of the service path information contained in the SFC encapsulation. However, existing implementations may not be able to act on the SFC encapsulation. These platforms may opt to use existing transport information if it can be arranged to provide explicit service path information. This results in the same architectural behavior and meaning for service function forwarding and service function paths. It is the responsibility of the control components to ensure that the transport path executed in such a case is fully aligned with the path identified by the information in the service chaining encapsulation. SB> The title does not seem quite right. What I think you have SB> is a system in which you map an SFC onto an explicit path SB> of some sort in the lower layers (I was going to say network layer SB> but I am not sure if that is what you intend). So I am not sure SB> derived is the correct word. It would be closer to say "emulation SB> of SFF using explicit network paths. Noting that these paths may SB> be encoded in the packet or encoded in the FIB. Derived is not as precise as desired perhaps, but I think 'emulation' is wo= rst. Others? 4.4. SFC-Enabled Domain Specific features may need to be enforced at the boundaries of an SFC-enabled domain, for example to avoid leaking SFC information. Using the term node to refer generically to an entity that is performing a set of functions, in this context, an SFC Boundary Node denotes a node that connects one SFC-enabled domain to a node either located in another SFC-enabled domain or in a domain that is SFC- unaware. An SFC Boundary node can act as egress or ingress. SB> do you mean or or and/or i.e. can it be both at the same time. Yes. An SFC Egress Node denotes a SFC Boundary Node that handles traffic leaving the SFC-enabled domain the Egress Node belongs to. Such a node is required to remove any information specific to the SFC Domain, typically the SFC Encapsulation. An SFC Ingress Node denotes an SFC Boundary Node that handles traffic entering the SFC-enabled domain. In most solutions and deployments this will need to include a classifier, and will be responsible for adding the SFC encapsulation to the packet. SB> Logically doesn't it always include the classifier, where the set of SB> classifier types includes the null classifier? The only exception SB> I suppose is when you are receiving traffic from a trusted SB> SFC aware peer, but it might be better to be more explicit SB> about the normal case and then introduce the exception 4.5. Network Overlay and Network Components Underneath the SFF there are components responsible for performing the transport (overlay) forwarding. They do not consult the SFC encapsulation or inner payload for performing this forwarding. They only consult the outer-transport encapsulation for the transport (overlay) forwarding. SB> This layer model needs to be brought out much earlier instead of SB> having the reader deduce it up to this point. SB> Indeed the layering model makes for a better way of explaining SB> the operation of the system. Better for readers that think in terms of and are used to seeing layer mode= ls. As explained, that's not how we want to limit this architecture. 4.6. SFC Proxy In order for the SFC architecture to support SFC-unaware SFs (e.g., legacy service functions) a logical SFC proxy function may be used. SB> Is it a logical proxy or a real proxy, and why only may, surely SB> it *is* used. Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 14] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 This function sits between an SFF and one or more SFs to which the SFF is directing traffic. The proxy accepts packets from the SFF on behalf of the SF. It removes the SFC encapsulation, and then uses a local attachment circuit to deliver packets to SFC unaware SFs. It also receives packets back from the SF, reapplies the SFC encapsulation, and returns them to the SFF for processing along the service function path. Thus, from the point of view of the SFF, the SFC proxy appears to be part of an SFC aware SF. Communication details between the SFF and the SFC Proxy are the same as those between the SFF and an SFC aware SF. The details of that are not part of this architecture. The details of the communication methods over the local attachment circuit between the SFC proxy and the SFC-unaware SF are dependent upon the specific behaviors and capabilities of that SFC-unaware SF, and thus are also out of scope for this architecture. Specifically, for traffic received from the SFF intended for the SF the proxy is representing, the SFC proxy: o Removes the SFC encapsulation from SFC encapsulated packets. o Identifies the required SF to be applied based on available information including that carried in the SFC encapsulation. o Selects the appropriate outbound local attachment circuit through which the next SF for this SFP is reachable. This is derived from the identification of the SF carried in the SFC encapsulation, and may include local techniques. Examples of a local attachment circuit include, but are not limited to, VLAN, IP-in-IP, L2TPv3, GRE, VXLAN. o Forwards the original payload via the selected local attachment circuit to the appropriate SF. SB> I think you have missed the storage of the SFE and I am not SB> sure how this gets back to the specific packet. This causes me SB> wonder if it is the original payload or not since it may by SB> now be SFC modified. It is surely the SFE payload that gets SB> passed up, and to re-attach the correct SFE afterwards, might SB> you not have to modify it? When traffic is returned from the SF: o Applies the required SFC encapsulation. The determination of the encapsulation details may be inferred by the local attachment circuit through which the packet and/or frame was received, or via packet classification, or other local policy. In some cases, packet ordering or modification by the SF may necessitate additional classification in order to re-apply the correct SFC encapsulation. SB> This function is surely split between the outbound and inbound SB> proxy functions. Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 15] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 o Delivers the packet with the SFC Encapsulation to the SFF, as would happen with packets returned from an SFC-aware SF. Alternatively, a service provider may decide to exclude legacy service functions from an SFC domain. SB> This might have been better expressed earlier in the text my noting SB> that the proxy was optional, making the afterthought above redundant. 4.7. Classification Traffic from the network that satisfies classification criteria is directed into an SFP and forwarded to the requisite service function(s). Classification is handled by a service classification function; initial classification occurs at the ingress to the SFC domain. The granularity of the initial classification is determined by the capabilities of the classifier and the requirements of the SFC policy. For instance, classification might be relatively coarse: all packets from this port are subject to SFC policy X and directed into SFP A, or quite granular: all packets matching this 5-tuple are subject to SFC policy Y and directed into SFP B. As a consequence of the classification decision, the appropriate SFC encapsulation is imposed on the data, and a suitable SFP is selected or created. Classification results in attaching the traffic to a specific SFP. SB> How about: SFC domain ingress traffic is first processed by a classifier which either rejects the traffic or prepares it for processing by the required SFs. The classifier applies policy to the packet to determine the required SFC, and then to map that to the required SFP. The classifier applies the corresponding SFE and if necessary the appropriate network layer encapsulation and forwards the packet to the first SFF on the chain. This seems to leave out and awful set of details. And why first either reje= cts or prepares? 4.8. Re-Classification and Branching The SFC architecture supports re-classification (or non-initial classification) as well. SB> This is interesting, surely the packet only enters the SB> SFC when it has been been classified (including the null classification= ) SB> and has the SFE applied? As packets traverse an SFP, re- classification may occur - typically performed by a classification function co-resident with a service function. SB> Architecturally you may always want to include a reclassifier SB> on exit (and may be entry) to every SF. It may be null, but it's SB> probably better that it is there. Reclassification may result in the selection of a new SFP, an update of the associated metadata, or both. This is referred to as "branching". For example, an initial classification results in the selection of SFP A: DPI_1 --> SLB_8. However, when the DPI service function is executed, attack traffic is detected at the application layer. DPI_1 re-classifies the traffic as attack and alters the service path to SFP B, to include a firewall for policy enforcement: dropping the traffic: DPI_1 --> FW_4. Subsequent to FW_4, surviving traffic would be returned to the original SFF. In this simple example, the DPI service function re-classifies the traffic based on local application layer classification capabilities (that were not available during the initial classification step). When traffic arrives after being steered through an SFC-unaware SF, the SFC Proxy must perform re-classification of traffic to determine the SFP. The SFC Proxy is concerned with re-attaching information SB> This should have been part of the earlier proxy functional definition. SB> Maybe if you moved this up earlier before proxy it would all be clearer= . Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 16] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 for SFC-unaware SFs, and a stateful SFC Proxy simplifies such classification to a flow lookup. 4.9. Shared Metadata SB> Isn't metadata always shared? If no one else sees it, there is SB> no point in generating it. It describes a key characteristic. Like saying "differentiated strategy" - = isn't it always? This improves the text with appropriate qualifiers. Sharing metadata allows the network to provide network-derived information to the SFs, SF-to-SF information exchange and the sharing of service-derived information to the network. Some SFCs may not require metadata exchange. SFC infrastructure enables the exchange of this shared data along the SFP. The shared metadata serves several possible roles within the SFC architecture: o Allows elements that typically operate as ships in the night to exchange information. SB> That is a sort of tautology. If they share MD they are not true SB> SITN. Surely this is about in band and outband state sharing. I think you missed the "typically". o Encodes information about the network and/or data for post- service forwarding. o Creates an identifier used for policy binding by SFs. Context information can be derived in several ways: SB> This list does not scan properly from the intro fragment above. o External sources o Network node classification o Service function classification 5. Additional Architectural Concepts There are a number of issues which solutions need to address, and which the architecture informs but does not determine. This section lays out some of those concepts. 5.1. The Role of Policy Much of the behavior of service chains is driven by operator and per- customer policy. This architecture is structured to isolate the policy interactions from the data plane and control logic. Specifically, it is assumed that the service chaining control plane creates the service paths. The service chaining data plane is used to deliver the classified packets along the service chains to the intended service functions. Policy, in contrast, interacts with the system in other places. Policies and policy engines may monitor service functions to decide if additional (or fewer) instances of services are needed. SB> This seems to be conflating policy and resource management, and SB> I am not sure this is wise. The resource manager should consult SB> policy, but the problems are distinct. When Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 17] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 applicable, those decisions may in turn result in interactions that direct the control logic to change the SFP placement or packet classification rules. Similarly, operator service policy, often managed by operational or business support systems (OSS or BSS), will frequently determine what service functions are available. Operator service policies also determine which sequences of functions are valid and are to be used or made available. The offering of service chains to customers, and the selection of which service chain a customer wishes to use, are driven by a combination of operator and customer policies using appropriate portals in conjunction with the OSS and BSS tools. These selections then drive the service chaining control logic, which in turn establishes the appropriate packet classification rules. SB> Didn't you just say the above. In any case it might be better in SB> the form of an intro rather than a conclusion. 5.2. SFC Control Plane This is part of the overall architecture but outside the scope of this document. SB> The specifics of the architecture of the CP may be out of scope SB> but I cannot see how it can be out of scope of the main SB> architecture, unless you want to reclassify this as the SFC packet SB> plane architecture. SB> SB> As I read more of this text I am unclear why this in not promoted SB> to the main body of the text. The SFC control plane is responsible for constructing SFPs, translating SFCs to forwarding paths and propagating path information to participating nodes to achieve requisite forwarding behavior to construct the service overlay. For instance, an SFC construction may be static; selecting exactly which SFFs and which SFs from those SFFs are to be used, or it may be dynamic, allowing the network to perform some or all of the choices of SFF or SF to use to deliver the selected service chain within the constraints represented by the service path. In the SFC architecture, SFs are resources; SB> SFs or SF instances? I don't think it becomes an accountable SB> resource until it is instantiated. the control plane manages and communicates their capabilities, availability and location in fashions suitable for the transport and SFC operations in use. The control plane is also responsible for the creation of the context (see below). The control plane may be distributed (using new or existing control plane protocols), or be centralized, or a combination of the two. The SFC control plane provides the following functionality: 1. An SFC-enabled domain wide view of all available service function resources as well as the network locators through which they are reachable. 2. Uses SFC policy to construct service function chains, and associated service function paths. Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 18] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 3. Selection of specific SFs for a requested SFC, either statically (using specific SFs) or dynamically (using service explicit SFs at the time of delivering traffic to them). 4. Provides requisite SFC data plane information to the SFC architecture components, most notably the SFF. 5. Allocation of metadata associated with a given SFP and propagation of the metadata to relevant SFs and/or SFC encapsulation-proxies or their respective policy planes. SB> I am not sure what it means to allocate metadata. Do you mean SB> MD storage, or MD packet space? Neither - defining what is relevant MD for a given SFP. 5.3. Resource Control The SFC system may be responsible for managing all resources necessary for the SFC components to function. This includes network constraints used to plan and choose network path(s) between service function forwarders, network communication paths between service function forwarders and their attached service functions, characteristics of the nodes themselves such as memory, number of virtual interfaces, routes, and instantiation, configuration, and deletion of SFs. The SFC system will also be required to reflect policy decisions about resource control, as expressed by other components in the system. While all of these aspects are part of the overall system, they are beyond the scope of this architecture. SB> The relationship between the RC/RM and the CP seems unclear. 5.4. Infinite Loop Detection and Avoidance This SFC architecture is predicated on topological independence from the underlying forwarding topology. Consequently, a service topology is created by Service Function Paths or by the local decisions of the Service Function Forwarders based on the constraints expressed in the SFP. SB> The concept of service topologies and overlays would be useful much ear= lier in the text. Due to the overlay constraints, the packet-forwarding path may need to visit the same SFF multiple times, and in some less common cases may even need to visit the same SF more than once. The Service Chaining solution needs to permit these limited and policy-compliant loops. At the same time, the solutions must ensure that indefinite and unbounded loops cannot be formed, as such would consume unbounded resources without delivering any value. In other words, this architecture prevents infinite Service Function Loops, even when Service Functions may be invoked multiple times in the same SFP. SB> You say it does, but I don't see how it does it. Do you anticipate SB> it happening in the CP or the DP or both? SB> Both. Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 19] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 5.5. Load Balancing Considerations Supporting function elasticity and high-availability should not overly complicate SFC or lead to unnecessary scalability problems. In the simplest case, where there is only a single function in the SFP (the next hop is either the destination address of the flow or the appropriate next hop to that destination), one could argue that there may be no need for SFC. SB> It is unusual to lead with the dejenerate case (i.e. no SFC) Noted. It's going from simple to complex. In the cases where the classifier is separate from the single function or a function at the terminal address may need sub-prefix or per-subscriber metadata, a single SFP exists (the metadata changes but the SFP does not), regardless of the number of potential terminal addresses for the flow. This is the case of the simple load balancer. See Figure 4. +---+ +---++--->web server source+-->|sff|+-->|sf1|+--->web server +---+ +---++--->web server Figure 4: Simple Load Balancing By extrapolation, in the case where intermediary functions within a chain had similar "elastic" behaviors, we do not need separate chains to account for this behavior - as long as the traffic coalesces to a common next-hop after the point of elasticity. In Figure 5, we have a chain of five service functions between the traffic source and its destination. +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ |sf2| |sf2| |sf3| |sf3| |sf4| |sf4| +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ | | | | | | +-----+-----+ +-----+-----+ | | + + +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ source+-->|sff|+-->|sff|+--->|sff|+--->|sff|+-->|sff|+-->destination +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ + + + | | | +---+ +---+ +---+ |sf1| |sf3| |sf5| +---+ +---+ +---+ Figure 5: Load Balancing Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 20] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 This would be represented as one service function path: sf1->sf2->sf3->sf4->sf5. The SFF is a logical element, which may be made up of one or multiple components. In this architecture, the SFF may handle load distribution based on policy. It can also be seen in the above that the same service function may be reachable through multiple SFFs, as discussed earlier. The selection of which SFF to use to reach SF3 may be made by the control logic in defining the SFP, or may be left to the SFFs themselves, depending upon policy, solution, and deployment constraints. In the latter case, it needs to be assured that exactly one SFF takes responsibility to steer traffic through SF3. SB> Shouldn't the architecture lead with the general case and note SB> that any function can be replaced with the null function. 5.6. MTU and Fragmentation Considerations This architecture prescribes additional information being added to packets to identify service function paths and often to represent metadata. It also envisions adding transport information to carry packets along service function paths, at least between service function forwarders. This added information increases the size of the packet to be carried by service chaining. Such additions could potentially increase the packet size beyond the MTU supported on some or all of the media used in the service chaining domain. Such packet size increases can thus cause operational MTU problems. Requiring fragmentation and reassembly in an SFF would be a major processing increase, and might be impossible with some transports. SB> Sure but the SFE is teh network layer of the SFC plane and could SB> do this. Expecting service functions to deal with packets fragmented by the SFC function might be onerous even when such fragmentation was possible. Thus, at the very least, solutions need to pay attention to the size cost of their approach. There may be alternative or additional means available, although any solution needs to consider the tradeoffs. These considerations apply to any generic architecture that increases the header size. There are also more specific MTU considerations: Effects on Path MTU Discovery (PMTUD) as well as deployment considerations. Deployments within a single administrative control or even a single Data Center complex can afford more flexibility in dealing with larger packets, and deploying existing mitigations that decrease the likelihood of fragmentation or discard. 5.7. SFC OAM Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) tools are an integral part of the architecture. These serve various purposes, including fault detection and isolation, and performance management. For example, there are many advantages of SFP liveness detection, Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 21] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 including status reporting, support for resiliency operations and policies, and an enhanced ability to balance load. Service Function Paths create a services topology, and OAM performs various functions within this service layer. Furthermore, SFC OAM follows the same architectural principles of SFC in general. For example, topological independence (including the ability to run OAM over various overlay technologies) and classification-based policy. We can subdivide the SFC OAM architecture in two parts: o In-band: OAM packets follow the same path and share fate with user packets, within the service topology. For this, they also follow the architectural principle of consistent policy identifiers, and use the same path IDs as the service chain data packets. Load balancing and SFC encapsulation with packet forwarding are particularly important here. o Out-of-band: reporting beyond the actual data plane. An additional layer beyond the data-plane OAM allows for additional alerting and measurements. This architecture prescribes end-to-end SFP OAM functions, which implies SFF understanding of whether an in-band packet is an OAM or user packet. However, service function validation is outside of the scope of this architecture, and application-level OAM is not what this architecture prescribes. Some of the detailed functions performed by SFC OAM include fault detection and isolation in a Service Function Path or a Service Function, verification that connectivity using SFPs is both effective and directing packets to the intended service functions, service path tracing, diagnostic and fault isolation, alarm reporting, performance measurement, locking and testing of service functions, validation with the control plane (see Section 5.2), and also allow for vendor- specific as well as experimental functions. SFC should leverage, and if needed extend relevant existing OAM mechanisms. 5.8. Resilience and Redundancy As a practical operational requirement, any service chaining solution needs to be able to respond effectively, and usually very quickly, to failure conditions. These may be failures of connectivity in the network between SFFs, failures of SFFs, or failures of SFs. Per-SF state, as for example stateful-firewall state, is the responsibility of the SF, and not addressed by this architecture. Halpern & Pignataro Expires March 24, 2015 [Page 22] Internet-Draft SFC Architecture September 2014 Multiple techniques are available to address this issue. Solutions can describe both what they require and what they allow to address failure. Solutions can make use of flexible specificity of service function paths, if the SFF can be given enough information in a timely fashion to do this. Solutions can also make use of MAC or IP level redundancy mechanisms such as VRRP. Also, particularly for SF failures, load balancers co-located with the SFF or as part of the service function delivery mechanism can provide such robustness. Similarly, operational requirements imply resilience in the face of load changes. While mechanisms for managing (e.g., monitoring, instantiating, loading images, providing configuration to service function chaining control, deleting, etc.) virtual machines are out of scope for this architecture, solutions can and are aided by describing how they can make use of scaling mechanisms. SB> Given that we are introducing a new network layer construct including SB> something that is or is a very close cousin to a network layer, surely SB> we are missing an opportunity by not including this on day one. 6. Security Considerations This document does not define a new protocol and therefore creates no new security issues. Security considerations apply to the realization of this architecture. Such realization ought to provide means to protect the SFC-enabled domain and its borders against various forms of attacks, including DDoS attacks. Further, SFC OAM Functions need to not negatively affect the security considerations of an SFC-enabled domain. Additionally, all entities (software or hardware) interacting with the service chaining mechanisms need to provide means of security against malformed, poorly configured (deliberate or not) protocol constructs and loops. These considerations are largely the same as those in any network, particularly an overlay network. SB> I just don't buy this for a security analysis. The Architecture needs SB> direct the compenent designers to look at security issues associated SB> with the new components and functionality being introduced. SB> For example the SFE will have special considerations, so will the SB> the path changes that you talk about earlier. Then there is resource SB> conflicts and their impact as a security problem. Then there is the SB> issue of privacy. Really each component of the ach needs to be looked SB> at from a security PoV and guidance provided to the component designer. Text? Thanks, Carlos. - Stewart -- For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E775B01MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Carlos,

 

A few comments regarding your respons= es…

 

 

regarding:

 = ;

 Classification:  Locally instan=
tiated policy and customer/network/
       =
 service profile matching of traffic flows for identification of=

       =
 appropriate outbound forwarding actions.
 
SB> Isn't it really
 
SB> Locally instantiated matching of tr=
affic flows against policy for
SB> subsequent application of the requi=
red set of network service functions. 
SB> The policy may be ustomer/network/s=
ervice specific.

 

Yes, I think this is a go= od change. 

 

WG, any concerns? 

I agree t= hat the suggested change is good.

 

Regarding:

 

 
 Service Function Chain (SFC): =
 A service function chain defines a set
       =
; of abstract service functions and ordering constraints that must
 
SB> Isn't the SFC also ordered?
 
       &nbs=
p;be applied to packets and/or frames selected as a result of

       =
; classification.  


SB> Packets, or higher order construct=
s like flows? You cannot


SB> do some of the SFs packet by packe=
t


 


 


I agree with adding ̶=
0;flows”.


 


I like “flows” here, too.=
   Also agree that “ordered” is an important aspect.<=
o:p>


 


 


Regarding:


 


SB> Isn't an important class of classi=
fiers one that learns state from the 


SB> egress packets/flows that is then =
used to provide state for the 


SB> return packets/flow

 


Isn’t that a way to=
 provide synchronization?


 


I have a nagging feeling that the arc=
hitecture doc should add a section on unidirectional vs. symmetrically bidi=
rectional flows and the optimizations and/or simplifications
 that can be realized when the policy is such that symmetrically bidirectio=
nal flows are utilized.


 













From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.o=
rg]
On Behalf Of Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:52 PM

To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant)

Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-architecture@tools.ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; sfc-ch=
airs@tools.ietf.org

Subject: Re: [sfc] Some concerns about draft-ietf-sfc-architecture






 


Hi Stewart, 




 






Thanks again for your comments, and apologies for th=
e delay — please find some responses inline.






 








On Nov 12, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Stewart Bryant (stbryan=
t) <stbryant@cisco.com> wro=
te:




 








Correcting an error in the to list.



On 12/11/2014 20:05, Stewart Bryant wrote:






SB> This document lacks the precision and that I would have hoped f=
or 


SB> in an architecture. I understand that the this was deliberate <=
o:p>


SB> in order to allow implementation flexibility, but I don't =



SB> buy that.


SB>


SB> What we have here is a type of layered network, and whilst 


SB> verbal discussions have refuted that, you have many references<=
o:p>


SB> to overlay topologies.


SB>


SB> This would be better understood if you described it as a layere=
d


SB> system,












As mentioned before (and verbally in your reference =
above), that’s what we do not want to do. More below.












 if you only used generalized the components with fully

SB> functionality, and then explained which could be NULL. In the <=
o:p>


SB> case of sub-functional components they should not be part of th=
e 


SB> core architecture, but the techniques used to create a full fun=
ction


SB> component by assistance (the proxy) described outside the main<=
o:p>


SB> architecture.












Within the context of SFC, it is important that the =
architecture describes the proxy — as we are living in a world in whi=
ch we want to include legacy and not craft an fully functional architecture=
 that ignores it.












SB>


SB> I understand that in part the approach used here was to allow


SB> a mixture of implementation styles - the concept of explicit


SB> and implicit SFE - with network layer constructs supplying the =



SB> implicit SFE. However it would be better to think of the use


SB> of implicit SFE as a type of network recursion in which the 


SB> the encapsulator (which I think is distinct from the classifier=
)


SB> chooses how to encode the SFP on the packet.


SB>












We can overcomplicate it in many different ways, but=
 let’s not. We can think of it differently, I agree; but this is the =
way the WG thought about it.












SB> I have a nagging concern about the way that the terms packets i=
s


SB> used in this text. The way it is used one would expect that the=
re


SB> is a one for one mapping between input and output packets, but =
that


SB> is surely not the case. A trivial point is the case where an SF=



SB> needs to defragment. Although at the physical layer the units a=
re


SB> packets, there may surely be higher order constructs traveling<=
o:p>


SB> between SFs. 












 




I think this is a good point, more inline.














 


 


 Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture


           &nbs=
p;         draft-ietf-sfc-architect=
ure-02


 


Abstract


 


   This document describes an architecture for the specifica=
tion,


sb> an arch or THE arch?












Updated to “the”. Thanks.












   creation, and ongoing maintenance of Service Function Cha=
ins (SFC) in


   a network.  It includes architectural concepts, prin=
ciples, and


   components used in the construction of composite services=
 through


   deployment of SFCs.  This document does not propose =
solutions,


   protocols, or extensions to existing protocols.


 


 


 


1.  Introduction


 


   This document describes an architecture used for the crea=
tion and


sb> and or THE












Ditto.












   ongoing maintenance of Service Function Chains (SFC) in a=
 network.


   It includes architectural concepts, principles, and compo=
nents.


 


   An overview of the issues associated with the deployment =
of end-to-


   end service function chains, abstract sets of service fun=
ctions and


   their ordering constraints that create a composite servic=
e and the


   subsequent "steering" of traffic flows through =
said service


   functions, is described in [I-D.ietf-sfc-problem-statemen=
t].


 


   This architecture presents a model addressing the problem=
atic aspects


   of existing service deployments, including topological in=
dependence


   and configuration complexity.


 


   Service function chains enable composite services that ar=
e


   constructed from one or more service functions.


 


1.1.  Scope


 


   This document defines a framework to realize Service Func=
tion


   Chaining (SFC) with minimum requirements on the physical =
topology of


   the network.  The proposed solution relies on initia=
l packet


   classification.  Packets initially classified for ha=
ndling by a set


   of Service Functions (SFs) in the SFC-enabled domain are =
then


   forwarded to that set of SFs for processing.

 


SB> Are you allowed to reclassify, or do staged classification? 


SB> Yes you are - you say so later - but that is not implied


SB> by the above.


 












Trying to explain branching here would likely create=
 more confusion to the reader.












   This document does not make any assumption on the deploym=
ent context.


   The proposed framework covers both fixed and mobile netwo=
rks.


 


SB> Given that you make no deployment context assumption, surely


SB> the followup mobile/fixed specific is not relevant.<=
/pre>

 












 




I disagree — it is very relevant to be explici=
t about the scope for both fixed and mobile. It’s not redundant with =
no deployment context assumption, it is just a more explicit and precise se=
t of details. This is, again, because these details
 are relevant to real SFC deployments based on this architecture.














   The architecture described herein is assumed to be applic=
able to a


   single network administrative domain.  While it is p=
ossible for the


   architectural principles and components to be applied to =
inter-domain


   SFCs, these are left for future study.


 


1.2.  Assumptions


 


   The following assumptions are made:


 


   o  Not all SFs can be characterized with a standard =
definition in


      terms of technical description, detaile=
d specification,


      configuration, etc.


 


   o  There is no global or standard list of SFs enable=
d in a given


      administrative domain.  The set of=
 SFs varies as a function of the


      service to be provided and according to=
 the networking


      environment.


 


   o  There is no global or standard SF chaining logic.=
  The ordered set


      of SFs that needs to be enabled to deli=
ver a given service is


      specific to each administrative entity.=



 


SB> Surely it is application specific even within an admistration?<=
o:p>












 




What is “application specific” in the co=
ntext of a chained set of applications?














 


 o  The chaining of SFs and the criteria to invoke them are =
specific


      to each administrative entity that oper=
ates an SF-enabled domain.


 


SB? see previous












 




See previous.














 


 


Halpern & Pignataro      Expires March 24=
, 2015           &nb=
sp;     [Page 3]


 


Internet-Draft         &n=
bsp;    SFC Architecture      =
        September 2014


 


 


   o  Several SF chaining policies can be simultaneousl=
y applied within


      an administrative domain to meet variou=
s business requirements.


 


   o  No assumption is made on how FIBs and RIBs of inv=
olved nodes are


      populated.


 


   o  How to bind traffic to a given SF chain is policy=
-based.


 


1.3.  Definition of Terms


 


   Network Service:  An offering provided by an operato=
r that is


        delivered using one or more=
 service functions.  This may also be


        referred to as a composite =
service.  The term "service" is used


        to denote a "network s=
ervice" in the context of this document.


 


        Note: Beyond this document,=
 the term "service" is overloaded


        with varying definitions.&n=
bsp; For example, to some a service is an


        offering composed of severa=
l elements within the operator's


        network, whereas for others=
 a service, or more specifically a


        network service, is a discr=
ete element such as a firewall.


        Traditionally, such service=
s (in the latter sense) host a set of


        service functions and have =
a network locator where the service


        is hosted.


 


SB> I think that you probably need an explicit definition of servic=
e.


SB> I find the text in the definition of NS self referential which =
is


SB> not helpful.










It is not self-referential, but yes, the WG struggle=
d a bit with how to define something so overloaded. I did at least. You can=
 check the SFC charter for a different way of dancing around it.=







 






If you have specific text suggestions, by all means,=
 please do share.














 


 


 Classification:  Locally instantiated policy and customer/n=
etwork/


        service profile matching of=
 traffic flows for identification of


        appropriate outbound forwar=
ding actions.


 


SB> Isn't it really


 


SB> Locally instantiated matching of traffic flows against policy f=
or


SB> subsequent application of the required set of network service f=
unctions. 


SB> The policy may be ustomer/network/service specific.<=
/pre>

 


 












 




Yes, I think this is a good change. =







 






WG, any concerns? 














 


 


 Classifier:  An element that performs Classification.<=
/o:p>


 


SB> A network element perhaps?












 




An element sounds good to me. Any particular reason =
why you’d constrain it?














 


 Service Function Chain (SFC):  A service function chain def=
ines a set


        of abstract service functio=
ns and ordering constraints that must


 


SB> Isn't the SFC also ordered?


 


        be applied to packets and/o=
r frames selected as a result of


        classification.  =



SB> Packets, or higher order constructs like flows? You cannot=



SB> do some of the SFs packet by packet


 












 




I agree with adding “flows”.














        The implied order may not b=
e a linear


        progression as the architec=
ture allows for SFCs that copy to


        more than one branch, and a=
lso allows for cases where there is


        flexibility in the order in=
 which service functions need to be


        applied.  The term ser=
vice chain is often used as shorthand for


        service function chain.


 


SB> See my earlier not about the apparently more restricted definit=
ion


SB> I think that you need to make the generalization clearer earlie=
r.


 












 




See above.














 Service Function (SF):  A function that is responsible for =
specific


        treatment of received packe=
ts.  A Service Function can act at


        various layers of a protoco=
l stack (e.g., at the network layer


        or other OSI layers). =
 As a logical component, a Service


        Function can be realized as=
 a virtual element or be embedded in


        a physical network element.=
  One or multiple Service Functions


SB> multiple or more?












I guess “one or more”.












       can be embedded in the same netwo=
rk element.  Multiple


 


 


 


 


Halpern & Pignataro      Expires March 24=
, 2015           &nb=
sp;     [Page 4]


 


Internet-Draft         &n=
bsp;    SFC Architecture      =
        September 2014


 


 


        occurrences of the Service =
Function can exist in the same


        administrative domain.=



 


        One or more Service Functio=
ns can be involved in the delivery of


        added-value services. =
 A non-exhaustive list of abstract Service


        Functions includes: firewal=
ls, WAN and application acceleration,


        Deep Packet Inspection (DPI=
), LI (Lawful Intercept), server load


        balancing, NAT44 [RFC3022],=
 NAT64 [RFC6146], NPTv6 [RFC6296],


        HOST_ID injection, HTTP Hea=
der Enrichment functions, TCP


        optimizer.


 


SB> Not sure those are abstract SFs, surely they are explicit?=











A firewall is an abstract SF, specific rules / polic=
y makes it specific/concrete/explicit.














 


        An SF may be SFC encapsulat=
ion aware, that is it receives and


        acts on information in the =
SFC encapsulation, or unaware, in


        which case data forwarded t=
o the SF does not contain the SFC


        encapsulation.

 


   Service Function Forwarder (SFF):  A service functio=
n forwarder is


        responsible for delivering =
traffic received from the network to


        one or more connected servi=
ce functions according to information


        carried in the SFC encapsul=
ation, as well as handling traffic


        coming back from the SF.&nb=
sp; Additionally, a service function


        forwarder is responsible fo=
r delivering traffic to a classifier


        when needed and supported, =
mapping out traffic to another SFF


        (in the same or different t=
ype of overlay), and terminating the


        SFP.


 


 


SB> In these days of NFV it may not be received from the network.


SB> Surely the traffic is native until it gets to a classifier. The=



SB> way you have it here it looks like the first element is the SFF=



SB> but I am not sure that is the case.


SB> Perhaps: A service function forwarder is responsible for forwar=
ding


SB> traffic between service functions. 












“The network” is not “the network&=
#8221; that you are thinking, I suspect.






 






I think the proposed change removes important detail=
 — we could remove “from the network”.












 


 Metadata:  provides the ability to exchange context informa=
tion


        between classifiers and SFs=
 and among SFs.


 


SB> I think the first noun is missing in the above, but in any case=



SB> I think a more complete definition is needed.


 












 




Text?














 Service Function Path (SFP):  The SFP provides a level of i=
ndirection


        between the fully abstract =
notion of service chain as a sequence


        of abstract service functio=
ns to be delivered, and the fully


        specified notion of exactly=
 which SFF/SFs the packet will visit


        when it actually traverses =
the network.  By allowing the control


        components to specify this =
level of indirection, the operator


        may control the degree of S=
FF/SF selection authority that is


        delegated to the network.


 


SB> You have not defined control components.


SB> I think "notion" is a redundant term.

SB> I am somewhat confused by your definition.


SB> Is this really about the mapping of packets between an arbitrar=
y


SB> member of an SF to a specific instance of the SF?

 












 




This one took the WG a lot of editing… 













 SFC Encapsulation:  The SFC Encapsulation provides at a min=
imum SFP


        identification, and is used=
 by the SFC-aware functions, such as


        the SFF and SFC-aware SFs.&=
nbsp; The SFC Encapsulation is not used


        for network packet forwardi=
ng.  In addition to SFP


        identification, the SFC enc=
apsulation carries data plane context


        information, also referred =
to as metadata.


 


SB> Surely the "SFC E is used to attach the information needed=
 to


SB> direct the packet through the ordered set of SFs, together with=



SB> associated metadata. An additional  network layer encapsul=
ation is needed


SB> to carry the packet over the physical network.


 


 












 




What is wrong with the current definition? Again, th=
e WG invested much (on list and in person) time to get to these.=







 






I am happy to make changes that improve the document=
, but I am not sure I understand the guiding force other than personal pref=
erence.














 Rendered Service Path (RSP):  The Service Function Path is =
a


        constrained specification o=
f where packets using a certain


        service chain must go. =
; While it may be so constrained as to


 


 


 


Halpern & Pignataro      Expires March 24=
, 2015           &nb=
sp;     [Page 5]


 


Internet-Draft         &n=
bsp;    SFC Architecture      =
        September 2014


 


 


        identify the exact location=
s, it can also be less specific.


        Packets themselves are of c=
ourse transmitted from and to


        specific places in the netw=
ork, visiting a specific sequence of


        SFFs and SFs.  This se=
quence of actual visits by a packet to


        specific SFFs and SFs in th=
e network is known as the Rendered


        Service Path (RSP).  T=
his definition is included here for use by


        later documents, such as wh=
en solutions may need to discuss the


        actual sequence of location=
s the packets visit.


 


 


SB> Not sure of the wisdom of including a definition for the future=
, since


SB> when you use it you may need to tune the definition.=



 












 




OK, thanks. We want to capture the definition as par=
t of the architecture — not sure of the wisdom if we do not capture i=
t.














 SFC-enabled Domain:  A network or region of a network that =
implements


        SFC.  An SFC-enabled D=
omain is limited to a single network


        administrative domain.=



 


   SFC Proxy:  Removes and inserts SFC encapsulation on=
 behalf of an


        SFC-unaware service functio=
n.  SFC proxies are logical elements.


 


SB> Not sure considering then as logical is quite right. It depends=



SB> on the mapping of the operation to the physical. I could see


SB> cases where they are physical. Surely the point is that they


SB> may be co-located with another network function such as a route=
r


SB> an operating system component such as a hypervisor.<=
/pre>











 




If they are physical, the logical-physical mapping i=
s 1:1.














 


 


 2.  Architectural Concepts


 


   The following sections describe the foundational concepts=
 of service


   function chaining and the SFC architecture.

 


   Service Function Chaining enables the creation of composi=
te (network)


   services that consist of an ordered set of Service Functi=
ons (SF)


   that must be applied to packets and/or frames selected as=
 a result of


   classification.  Each SF is referenced using an iden=
tifier that is


   unique within an SF-enabled domain.  No IANA registr=
y is required to


   store the identity of SFs.


 


 


SB> I am still worried about using packets.












 




Need to fix this as well — part of the same co=
mment. Thanks.














 Obviously we operate on


SB> pkts, but the operation may require the reconstuction of some


SB> packet grouping typically some element of a flow before the ope=
ration


SB> can be performed. A trivial example is defragmenting a packet g=
roup


SB> but since we are dealing with abstract SFs we cannot specify th=
e 


SB> the unit of operation.


 


    Service Function Chaining is a concept that provide=
s for more than


   just the application of an ordered set of SFs to selected=
 traffic;


   rather, it describes a method for deploying SFs in a way =
that enables


   dynamic ordering and topological independence of those SF=
s as well as


   the exchange of metadata between participating entities.<=
o:p>


 


SB> The above is a bit late in the text. I think it needs to go ear=
lier.


 












 




It’s in the architectural concepts.














 2.1.  Service Function Chains


 


   In most networks, services are constructed as abstract se=
quences of


SB> I don't think that are abstract in this context.

SB> Are you talking about traditional (current physically instantia=
ted


SB> SFCs in the previous sentence?












 




See above.














 


   SFs that represent SFCs.  At a high level, an SFC is=
 an abstracted


   view of a service that specifies the set of required SFs =
as well as


   the order in which they must be executed.  


 


SB> Again I am not sure "abstrated view" is right here


 


   Graphs, as illustrated in


   Figure 1, define an SFC, where each graph node represents=
 the


   required existence of at least one abstract SF.  Suc=
h graph nodes


   (SFs) can be part of zero, one, or many SFCs.  A giv=
en graph node


   (SF) can appear one time or multiple times in a given SFC=
.


 


SB> Not sure that graphs is right, since you only show the case


SB> of a linear chain. The construct you are going to use is


SB> graph, but that is not what the figure shows.












 




The figure does show a graph.














 


   SFCs can start from the origination point of the service =
function


   graph (i.e.: node 1 in Figure 1), or from any subsequent =
node in the


   graph.  


 


SB> OK so are you trying to distinguish between physically and=



SB> SFC (the new technology) instantiated SFCS?


 


   SFs may therefore become branching nodes in the graph, wi=
th


 


 


 


Halpern & Pignataro      Expires March 24=
, 2015           &nb=
sp;     [Page 6]


 


Internet-Draft         &n=
bsp;    SFC Architecture      =
        September 2014


 


 


   those SFs selecting edges that move traffic to one or mor=
e branches.


   An SFC can have more than one terminus.


 


 


SB> Again that is not what your figure shows.


 


     ,-+-.      =
   ,---.          ,-=
--.          ,---.<=
/pre>

    /     \    =
   /     \      =
;  /     \      &nbs=
p; /     \


   (   1   )+--->(   2&=
nbsp;  )+---->(   6   )+---->( =
  8   )


    \     /    =
   \     /      &nbs=
p; \     /      &nbs=
p; \     /


     `---'      &nbs=
p;  `---'          `---'&=
nbsp;         `---'

 


     ,-+-.      =
   ,---.          ,-=
--.          ,---.  =
        ,---.


    /     \    =
   /     \      =
;  /     \      &nbs=
p; /     \        /&=
nbsp;    \


   (   1   )+--->(   2&=
nbsp;  )+---->(   3   )+---->( =
  7   )+---->(   9   )=



    \     /    =
   \     /      =
;  \     /      &nbs=
p; \     /        \&=
nbsp;    /


     `---'      &nbs=
p;  `---'          `---'&=
nbsp;         `---'  &nbs=
p;       `---'


 


     ,-+-.      =
   ,---.          ,-=
--.          ,---.  =
        ,---.


    /     \    =
   /     \      =
;  /     \      &nbs=
p; /     \        /&=
nbsp;    \


   (   1   )+--->(   7&=
nbsp;  )+---->(   8   )+---->( =
  4   )+---->(   7   )=



    \     /    =
   \     /      =
;  \     /      &nbs=
p; \     /        \&=
nbsp;    /


     `---'      &nbs=
p;  `---'          `---'&=
nbsp;         `---'  &nbs=
p;       `---'


 


           &nbs=
p;      Figure 1: Service Function Chain Graphs


 


2.2.  Service Function Chain Symmetry


 


   SFCs may be unidirectional or bidirectional.  A unid=
irectional SFC


   requires that traffic be forwarded through the ordered SF=
s in one


   direction (SF1 -> SF2 -> SF3), whereas a bidirectio=
nal SFC requires a


   symmetric path (SF1 -> SF2 -> SF3 and SF3 -> SF2=
 -> SF1), and in


   which the SF instances are the same in opposite direction=
s.  A hybrid


   SFC has attributes of both unidirectional and bidirection=
al SFCs;


   that is to say some SFs require symmetric traffic, wherea=
s other SFs


   do not process reverse traffic or are independent of the<=
o:p>


   corresponding forward traffic.


 


   SFCs may contain cycles; that is traffic may need to trav=
erse one or


   more SFs within an SFC more than once.  Solutions wi=
ll need to ensure


   suitable disambiguation for such situations.

 


   The architectural allowance that is made for SFPs that de=
legate


   choice to the network for which SFs and/or SFFs a packet =
will visit


   creates potential issues here.  A solution that allo=
ws such


   delegation needs to also describe how the solution ensure=
s that those


   service chains that require service function chain symmet=
ry can


   achieve that.


 


   Further, there are state tradeoffs in symmetry.  Sym=
metry may be


   realized in several ways depending on the SFF and classif=
ier


 


 


 


Halpern & Pignataro      Expires March 24=
, 2015           &nb=
sp;     [Page 7]


 


Internet-Draft         &n=
bsp;    SFC Architecture      =
        September 2014


 


 


   functionality.  In some cases, "mirrored" =
classification (i.e., from


   Source to Destination and from Destination to Source) pol=
icy may be


   deployed, whereas in others shared state between classifi=
ers may be


   used to ensure that symmetric flows are correctly identif=
ied, then


   steered along the required SFP.  At a high level, th=
ere are various


   common cases.  In a non-exhaustive way, there can be=
 for example: a


   single classifier (or a small number of classifiers), in =
which case


   both incoming and outgoing flows could be recognized at t=
he same


   classifier, so the synchronization would be feasible by i=
nternal


   mechanisms internal to the classifier.  Another case=
 is the one of


   stateful classifiers where several classifiers may be clu=
stered and


   share state.  Lastly, another case entails fully dis=
tributed


   classifiers, where synchronization needs to be provided t=
hrough


   unspecified means.  This is a non-comprehensive list=
 of common cases.


 


SB> Isn't an important class of classifiers one that learns state f=
rom the 


SB> egress packets/flows that is then used to provide state for the=
 


SB> return packets/flow












 




Isn’t that a way to provide synchronization?













 


 2.3.  Service Function Paths


 


   A service function path (SFP) is a mechanism used by serv=
ice chaining


   to express the result of applying more granular policy an=
d


SB> Not sure "more granular" is needed.


 


   operational constraints to the abstract requirements of a=
 service


SB> Not sure they are abstract requirements. When you apply them th=
ey


SB> are explicit.












 




abstract






adjective






1. thought=
 
of apart from
concrete realities,
specific objects,
or actua=
l 
instances.














 


   chain (SFC).  This architecture does not mandate the=
 degree of


   specificity of the SFP.  Architecturally, within the=
 same SFC-enabled


   domain, some SFPs may be fully specified, selecting exact=
ly which SFF


   and which SF are to be visited by packets using that SFP,=
 while other


   SFPs may be quite vague, deferring to the SFF the decisio=
ns about the


   exact sequence of steps to be used to realize the SFC.&nb=
sp; The


   specificity may be anywhere in between these extremes.


 


   As an example of such an intermediate specificity, there =
may be two


   SFPs associated with a given SFC, where one SFP says esse=
ntially that


 


SB> "says essentially is not a tight definition”












 




Substituted with “specifies”.














 


   any order of SFF and SF may be used as long as it is with=
in data


   center 1, and where the second SFP allows the same latitu=
de, but only


   within data center 2.


 


   Thus, the policies and logic of SFP selection or creation=
 (depending


   upon the solution) produce what may be thought of as a co=
nstrained


   version of the original SFC.  Since multiple policie=
s may apply to


   different traffic that uses the same SFC, it also follows=
 that there


   may be multiple SFPs may be associated with a single SFC.=



 


SB> So a SFP is a specific instance of a member of the set of avail=
able SFCs


SB> chosen as a result of applying policy at one or points along th=
e SFC?


 


 


   The architecture allows for the same SF to be reachable t=
hrough


   multiple SFFs.  In these cases, some SFPs may constr=
ain which SFF is


   used to reach which SF, while some SFPs may leave that de=
cision to


   the SFF itself.


 


   Further, the architecture allows for two or more SFs to b=
e attached


   to the same SFF, and possibly connected via internal mean=
s allowing


   more effective communication.  In these cases, some =
solutions or


 


 


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   deployments may choose to use some form of internal inter=
-process or


   inter-VM messaging (communication behind the virtual swit=
ching


   element) that is optimized for such an environment. =
 This must be


   coordinated with the SFF so that the service function for=
warding can


   properly perform its job.  Implementation details of=
 such mechanisms


   are considered out of scope for this document, and can in=
clude a


   spectrum of methods: for example situations including all=
 next-hops


   explicitly, others where a list of possible next-hops is =
provided and


   the selection is local, or cases with just an identifier,=
 where all


   resolution is local.


 


   This architecture also allows the same SF to be part of m=
ultiple


   SFPs.


 


SB> Didn't you just say that?


 


 3.  Architecture Principles


 


   Service function chaining is predicated on several key ar=
chitectural


   principles:


 


   1.  Topological independence: no changes to the unde=
rlay network


       forwarding topology - implicit, o=
r explicit - are needed to


       deploy and invoke SFs or SFCs.


 


   2.  Plane separation: dynamic realization of SFPs is=
 separated from


       packet handling operations (e.g.,=
 packet forwarding).


 


   3.  Classification: traffic that satisfies classific=
ation rules is


       forwarded according to a specific=
 SFP.  For example,


       classification can be as simple a=
s an explicit forwarding entry


       that forwards all traffic from on=
e address into the SFP.


       Multiple classification points ar=
e possible within an SFC (i.e.


       forming a service graph) thus ena=
bling changes/updates to the SFC


       by SFs.


 


       Classification can occur at varyi=
ng degrees of granularity; for


       example, classification can use a=
 5-tuple, a transport port or


       set of ports, part of the packet =
payload, or it can come from


       external systems.

 


SB> I think that it can surely be as a result of higher level inspe=
ctions?


 












OK, added.



















 4.  Shared Metadata: Metadata/context data can be shared am=
ongst SFs


       and classifiers, between SFs, and=
 between external systems and


       SFs (e.g., orchestration).


 


       Generally speaking, metadata can =
be thought of as providing and


       sharing the result of classificat=
ion 


 


SB> Just classifications, or classifications and processing operati=
ons?


SB> There is gray zone between a packet forwarding system and<=
/o:p>


SB> a distributed computing system and I am not sure where SFC fits=
, 


SB> nor am I sure that it makes sense to be specific at this stage.=



SB> It is entirely possible that an SFC consumes the packet/flow


SB> rather than only having the capability to forward it between 


SB> in ingress and egress.


 


      (that occurs within the SFC-=



       enabled domain, or external to it=
) along an SFP.  For example, an


       external repository might provide=
 user/subscriber information to


       a service chain classifier. =
 This classifier could in turn impose


 


 


 


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sp;     [Page 9]


 


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;       September 2014


 


 


       that information in the SFC encap=
sulation for delivery to the


       requisite SFs.  The SFs coul=
d in turn utilize the user/subscriber


       information for local policy deci=
sions.


 


   5.  Service definition independence: The SFC archite=
cture does not


       depend on the details of SFs them=
selves.  Additionally, no IANA


       registry is required to store the=
 list of SFs.


 


SB> Yes, but you should be careful not to preclude it.











 




Nothing is precluding it.














 


  6.  Service function chain independence: The creation, mod=
ification,


       or deletion of an SFC has no impa=
ct on other SFCs.  The same is


       true for SFPs.


 


SB> Yes and no. What about the resource implications?

 


 7.  Heterogeneous control/policy points: The architecture a=
llows SFs


       to use independent mechanisms (ou=
t of scope for this document) to


       populate and resolve local policy=
 and (if needed) local


       classification criteria.


 


4.  Core SFC Architecture Components


 


   At a very high level, the logical architecture of an SFC-=
enabled


   Domain comprises:


 


SB> A list would be handy rather than just a figure, and you need


SB> some text to expand on the figure.


 


      o . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=
 . . . . . . . . . . . . .


      .  +--------------+ &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    +------------------~~~


      .  |   Service &nbs=
p;  |       SFC    &=
nbsp;   |  Service  +---+   +---&=
#43;


      .  |Classification|  Encapsul=
ation   | Function  |sf1|...|sfn|


   +---->|   Function   |+---=
------------->|   Path    +---+ &n=
bsp; +---+


      .  +--------------+ &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    +------------------~~~


      . SFC-enabled Domain


      o . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=
 . . . . . . . . . . . . .


 


            &nb=
sp;  Figure 2: Service Function Chain Architecture

 


 


SB> This is a very confusing diagram


SB> Surely the SFC encap is attached to the packet


SB> The fig seems to confuse the the packets and the path.












 




It could be the reader that is confusing a nice figu=
re :-)






 






I am not sure I see what you see — suggestions=
?














 


   The following sub-sections provide details on each logica=
l component


   that form the basis of the SFC architecture.  A deta=
iled overview of


   how each of these architectural components interact is pr=
ovided in


   Figure 3:


 


 


SB> Well maybe, but it's not quite obvious what you are showing. 


SB> some overview text would help before you get into the detail.


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


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, 2015           &nb=
sp;    [Page 10]


 


Internet-Draft         &n=
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        September 2014


 


 


         +----------------=
+           &nbs=
p;            +-=
---------------+


         |   SFC-awa=
re    |         =
;            &n=
bsp;  |  SFC-unaware   |


         |Service Function|&nb=
sp;            =
           |Service Funct=
ion|


         +-------+----=
----+           =
             &#=
43;-------+--------+


           &nbs=
p;     |        =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;        |


           SFC Encap=
sulation           &=
nbsp;           No SFC En=
capsulation


           &nbs=
p;     |        &nbs=
p;         SFC  &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;    |


    +---------+  +----------------+=
; Encapsulation     +---------+

    |SFC-Aware|-----------------+  \ &nbs=
p;   +------------|SFC Proxy|


    |    SF   | ... ----------=
+  \  \   /      &nbs=
p;      +---------+


    +---------+      &=
nbsp;         \  \  =
\ /


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;     +-------+--------+

           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;     |   SF Forwarder |


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;     |      (SFF) &n=
bsp;   |


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;     +-------+--------+

           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p; |


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;     SFC Encapsulation


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p; |


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp; ... SFC-enabled Domain ...


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p; |


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp; Network Overlay Transport


           &nbs=
p;             =
            &nb=
sp;|


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;         _,....._

           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;      ,-'      =
  `-.


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;     /       &n=
bsp;      `.


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;    |     Network   =
 |


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;    `.        &=
nbsp;     /


            &nb=
sp;            =
      `.__     __,-'=



           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;          `''''


 


         Figure 3: Service Fun=
ction Chain Architecture Components


 


 


SB> Coming back here after reading a bit more. Is the SFF to be con=
sidered the


SB> hub in a hub and spoke processing model for a set of SFs? If so=
 it would


SB> be useful to say that up front. However that raises the issue o=
f whether


SB> the single network attachment point that you show is desirable.=
 A standard


SB> firewall design would not mix dirty and clean traffic, and yet =
that is


SB> what the above appears to show.


 


 


 4.1.  SFC Encapsulation


 


   The SFC encapsulation enables service function path selec=
tion.  It


   also enables the sharing of metadata/context information =
when such


   metadata exchange is required.


 


SB> I don't think that is quite right. Surely the 


SB> SFC encapsulation enables <some component> to select the =
next


SB> element of the path?


 


   The SFC encapsulation provides explicit information used =
to identify


SB> Provides or carries?












 




Carries.














   the SFP.  However, the SFC encapsulation is not a tr=
ansport


   encapsulation itself: it is not used to forward packets w=
ithin the


   network fabric.  


SB> ... but surely it is a shim layer of some sort?

 


   If packets need to flow between separate physical


   platforms, the SFC encapsulation therefore relies on an o=
uter network


   transport.  


SB> Surely it is network layer header specific to the inter SFC


SB> transport?


 


   Transit forwarders -- such as router and switches --=



   simply forward SFC encapsulated packets based on the oute=
r (non-SFC)


   encapsulation.


 


SB> d/simply/


 










OK














 


 


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, 2015           &nb=
sp;    [Page 11]


 


Internet-Draft         &n=
bsp;    SFC Architecture      =
        September 2014


 


 


   One of the key architecture principles of SFC is that the=
 SFC


   encapsulation remain transport independent.  As such=
 any network


   transport protocol may be used to carry the SFC encapsula=
ted traffic.


 


SB> Not sure I like "network transport protocol" since th=
is is going


SB> to be confused with transport layer and I am not sure whether


SB> you would require a transport layer, indeed the SFE might will<=
o:p>


SB> be considered a transport layer in the classical sense.


 


 4.2.  Service Function (SF)


 


   The concept of an SF evolves; rather than being viewed as=
 a bump in


   the wire, an SF becomes a resource within a specified adm=
inistrative


   domain that is available for consumption as part of a com=
posite


   service.  SFs send/receive data to/from one or more =
SFFs.  SFC-aware


   SFs receive this traffic with the SFC encapsulation.=



 


SB> I do not understand the above para.


 


   While the SFC architecture defines a new encapsulation - =
the SFC


   encapsulation - 


 


SB> no it does not - it is not defined in this memo. You introduce<=
o:p>


SB> the concept and define some of the characteristics of it.<=
/o:p>












 




OK, fixed.














 


 


   and several logical components for the construction<=
/o:p>


   of SFCs, existing SF implementations may not have the cap=
abilities to


   act upon or fully integrate with the new SFC encapsulatio=
n.  In order


   to provide a mechanism for such SFs to participate in the=



   architecture, an SFC proxy function is defined (see Secti=
on 4.6).


   The SFC proxy acts as a gateway between the SFC encapsula=
tion and


   SFC-unaware SFs.  The integration of SFC-unaware ser=
vice functions is


   discussed in more detail in the SFC proxy section.


 


SB> The above is confusing. Do they participate in the architecture=
 (this


SB> text)? I think that you mean that in order to employ SF instanc=
es


SB> that do not understand the SFE, a proxy as a gateway between th=
e 


SB> the SFE aware domain and the non-SFE aware domain. Now if it is=



SB> a gateway why is it not called a gateway rather than a proxy wh=
ich


SB> is something that does something on behalf of something else.


SB> I would think that it might be a SFE proxy, but that is not qui=
te


SB> right either.


 


 


 This architecture allows an SF to be part of multiple SFPs and S=
FCs.


 


SB> I am sure you said that before.


 


 4.3.  Service Function Forwarder (SFF)


 


   The SFF is responsible for forwarding packets and/or fram=
es received


   from the network to one or more SFs associated with a giv=
en SFF using


   information conveyed in the SFC encapsulation.  Traf=
fic from SFs


   eventually returns to the same SFF, which is responsible =
for


   injecting traffic back onto the network.


 


SB> It is not clear why it needs to be the exact same SFF










Because otherwise the SF would be an SFF.














 


   The collection of SFFs and associated SFs creates a servi=
ce plane


   overlay in which SFC-aware SFs, as well as SFC-unaware SF=
s reside.


   Within this service plane, the SFF component connects dif=
ferent SFs


   that form a service function path.


 


SB> This conceptual model seems quite fundamental and this I <=
/o:p>


SB> am surprised that it is not much earlier in the document.<=
/o:p>


SB> I have been wondering why the SFC system was not considered


SB> an overlay network of some sort, and was told by the authors


SB> that this was not possible. The above seems at odds with that


Sb> statement.


 


   SFFs maintain the requisite SFP forwarding information.&n=
bsp; 


SB> Maintain - as in being the control plane for this, or


SB> maintain as in store?


   SFP


   forwarding information is associated with a service path =
identifier


   that is used to uniquely identify an SFP.  The servi=
ce forwarding


   state enables an SFF to identify which SFs of a given SFP=
 should be


   applied, and in what order, as traffic flows through the =
associated


   SFP.  While there may appear to the SFF to be only o=
ne available way


   to deliver the given SF, there may also be multiple choic=
es allowed


   by the constraints of the SFP.


 


   If there are multiple choices, the SFF needs to preserve =
the property


   that all packets of a given flow are handled the same way=
, since the


 


 


 


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, 2015           &nb=
sp;    [Page 12]


 


Internet-Draft         &n=
bsp;    SFC Architecture      =
        September 2014


 


 


   SF may well be stateful.  Additionally, the SFF may =
preserve the


   handling of packets based on other properties on top of a=
 flow, such


   as a subscriber, session, or application instance identif=
ication.


 


SB> I feel that the issue of handing higher order objects needs to =
have


SB> been introduced much earlier in the architecture.

 










I agree it would help — do you have a specific=
 text addition and location?














   The SFF also has the information to allow it to forward p=
ackets to


   the next SFF after applying local service functions. =
; Again, while


   there may be only a single choice available, the architec=
ture allows


   for multiple choices for the next SFF.  As with SFs,=
 the solution


   needs to operate such that the behavior with regard to sp=
ecific flows


   (see the Rendered Service Path) is stable.  The sele=
ction of


   available SFs and next SFFs may be interwoven when an SFF=
 supports


   multiple distinct service functions and the same service =
function is


   available at multiple SFFs.  Solutions need to be cl=
ear about what is


   allowed in these cases.


 


   Even when the SFF supports and utilizes multiple choices,=
 the


   decision as to whether to use flow-specific mechanisms or=
 coarser


   grained means to ensure that the behavior of specific flo=
ws is stable


   is a matter for specific solutions and specific implement=
ations.


 


   The SFF component has the following primary responsibilit=
ies:


 


   1.  SFP forwarding : Traffic arrives at an SFF from =
the network.  The


       SFF determines the appropriate SF=
 the traffic should be forwarded


       to via information contained in t=
he SFC encapsulation.  Post-SF,


       the traffic is returned to the SF=
F, and if needed forwarded to


       another SF associated with that S=
FF.  If there is another non-


       local (i.e., different SFF) hop i=
n the SFP, the SFF further


       encapsulates the traffic in the a=
ppropriate network transport


       protocol and delivers it to the n=
etwork for delivery to the next


       SFF along the path.  Related=
 to this forwarding responsibility,


       an SFF should be able to interact=
 with metadata.


 


   2.  Terminating SFPs : An SFC is completely executed=
 when traffic has


       traversed all required SFs in a c=
hain.  When traffic arrives at


       the SFF after the last SF has fin=
ished processing it, the final


       SFF knows from the service forwar=
ding state that the SFC is


       complete.  The SFF removes t=
he SFC encapsulation and delivers the


       packet back to the network for fo=
rwarding.


 


   3.  Maintaining flow state: In some cases, the SFF m=
ay be stateful.


       It creates flows and stores flow-=
centric information.  This state


       information may be used for a ran=
ge of SFP-related tasks such as


       ensuring consistent treatment of =
all packets in a given flow,


       ensuring symmetry or for state-aw=
are SFC Proxy functionality (see


       Section 4.8).


 


 


 


 


 


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, 2015           &nb=
sp;    [Page 13]


 


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bsp;    SFC Architecture      =
        September 2014


 


 


4.3.1.  Transport Derived SFF


 


   Service function forwarding, as described above, directly=
 depends


   upon the use of the service path information contained in=
 the SFC


   encapsulation.  However, existing implementations ma=
y not be able to


   act on the SFC encapsulation.  These platforms may o=
pt to use


   existing transport information if it can be arranged to p=
rovide


   explicit service path information.


 


   This results in the same architectural behavior and meani=
ng for


   service function forwarding and service function paths.&n=
bsp; It is the


   responsibility of the control components to ensure that t=
he transport


   path executed in such a case is fully aligned with the pa=
th


   identified by the information in the service chaining enc=
apsulation.


 


SB> The title does not seem quite right. What I think you have=



SB> is a system in which you map an SFC onto an explicit path<=
/o:p>


SB> of some sort in the lower layers (I was going to say network la=
yer


SB> but I am not sure if that is what you intend). So I am not sure=
 


SB> derived is the correct word. It would be closer to say "em=
ulation


SB> of SFF using explicit network paths. Noting that these paths ma=
y


SB> be encoded in the packet or encoded in the FIB.









Derived is not as precise as desired perhaps, but I =
think ‘emulation’ is worst. Others?














 


 4.4.  SFC-Enabled Domain


 


   Specific features may need to be enforced at the boundari=
es of an


   SFC-enabled domain, for example to avoid leaking SFC info=
rmation.


   Using the term node to refer generically to an entity tha=
t is


   performing a set of functions, in this context, an SFC Bo=
undary Node


   denotes a node that connects one SFC-enabled domain to a =
node either


   located in another SFC-enabled domain or in a domain that=
 is SFC-


   unaware.


 


   An SFC Boundary node can act as egress or ingress.  =



SB> do you mean or or and/or i.e. can it be both at the same time.<=
o:p>












 




Yes.














   An SFC Egress


   Node denotes a SFC Boundary Node that handles traffic lea=
ving the


   SFC-enabled domain the Egress Node belongs to.  Such=
 a node is


   required to remove any information specific to the SFC Do=
main,


   typically the SFC Encapsulation.  An SFC Ingress Nod=
e denotes an SFC


   Boundary Node that handles traffic entering the SFC-enabl=
ed domain.


   In most solutions and deployments this will need to inclu=
de a


   classifier, and will be responsible for adding the SFC en=
capsulation


   to the packet.


 


SB> Logically doesn't it always include the classifier, where the s=
et of


SB> classifier types includes the null classifier? The only excepti=
on


SB> I suppose is when you are receiving traffic from a trusted=



SB> SFC aware peer, but it might be better to be more explicit=



SB> about the normal case and then introduce the exception


 


 4.5.  Network Overlay and Network Components

 


   Underneath the SFF there are components responsible for p=
erforming


   the transport (overlay) forwarding.  They do not con=
sult the SFC


   encapsulation or inner payload for performing this forwar=
ding.  They


   only consult the outer-transport encapsulation for the tr=
ansport


   (overlay) forwarding.


 


SB> This layer model needs to be brought out much earlier instead o=
f 


SB> having the reader deduce it up to this point.


SB> Indeed the layering model makes for a better way of explaining<=
o:p>


SB> the operation of the system.












 




Better for readers that think in terms of and are us=
ed to seeing layer models. As explained, that’s not how we want to li=
mit this architecture.














 


 4.6.  SFC Proxy


 


   In order for the SFC architecture to support SFC-unaware =
SFs (e.g.,


   legacy service functions) a logical SFC proxy function ma=
y be used.


 


SB> Is it a logical proxy or a real proxy, and why only may, surely=



SB> it *is* used.


 


 


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, 2015           &nb=
sp;    [Page 14]


 


Internet-Draft         &n=
bsp;    SFC Architecture      =
        September 2014


 


 


   This function sits between an SFF and one or more SFs to =
which the


   SFF is directing traffic.


 


   The proxy accepts packets from the SFF on behalf of the S=
F.  It


   removes the SFC encapsulation, and then uses a local atta=
chment


   circuit to deliver packets to SFC unaware SFs.  It a=
lso receives


   packets back from the SF, reapplies the SFC encapsulation=
, and


   returns them to the SFF for processing along the service =
function


   path.


 


   Thus, from the point of view of the SFF, the SFC proxy ap=
pears to be


   part of an SFC aware SF.


 


   Communication details between the SFF and the SFC Proxy a=
re the same


   as those between the SFF and an SFC aware SF.  The d=
etails of that


   are not part of this architecture.  The details of t=
he communication


   methods over the local attachment circuit between the SFC=
 proxy and


   the SFC-unaware SF are dependent upon the specific behavi=
ors and


   capabilities of that SFC-unaware SF, and thus are also ou=
t of scope


   for this architecture.


 


   Specifically, for traffic received from the SFF intended =
for the SF


   the proxy is representing, the SFC proxy:

 


   o  Removes the SFC encapsulation from SFC encapsulat=
ed packets.


 


   o  Identifies the required SF to be applied based on=
 available


      information including that carried in t=
he SFC encapsulation.


 


   o  Selects the appropriate outbound local attachment=
 circuit through


      which the next SF for this SFP is reach=
able.  This is derived from


      the identification of the SF carried in=
 the SFC encapsulation, and


      may include local techniques.  Exa=
mples of a local attachment


      circuit include, but are not limited to=
, VLAN, IP-in-IP, L2TPv3,


      GRE, VXLAN.


 


   o  Forwards the original payload via the selected lo=
cal attachment


      circuit to the appropriate SF.


 


SB> I think you have missed the storage of the SFE and I am not


SB> sure how this gets back to the specific packet. This causes me<=
o:p>


SB> wonder if it is the original payload or not since it may by


SB> now be SFC modified. It is surely the SFE payload that gets 


SB> passed up, and to re-attach the correct SFE afterwards, might


SB> you not have to modify it?


 


 


 When traffic is returned from the SF:


 


   o  Applies the required SFC encapsulation.  The=
 determination of the


      encapsulation details may be inferred b=
y the local attachment


      circuit through which the packet and/or=
 frame was received, or via


      packet classification, or other local p=
olicy.  In some cases,


      packet ordering or modification by the =
SF may necessitate


      additional classification in order to r=
e-apply the correct SFC


      encapsulation.


 


SB> This function is surely split between the outbound and inbound<=
o:p>


SB> proxy functions.


 


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   o  Delivers the packet with the SFC Encapsulation to=
 the SFF, as


      would happen with packets returned from=
 an SFC-aware SF.


 


   Alternatively, a service provider may decide to exclude l=
egacy


   service functions from an SFC domain.


 


SB> This might have been better expressed earlier in the text my no=
ting


SB> that the proxy was optional, making the afterthought above redu=
ndant.


 


 


 4.7.  Classification


 


   Traffic from the network that satisfies classification cr=
iteria is


   directed into an SFP and forwarded to the requisite servi=
ce


   function(s).  Classification is handled by a service=
 classification


   function; initial classification occurs at the ingress to=
 the SFC


   domain.  The granularity of the initial classificati=
on is determined


   by the capabilities of the classifier and the requirement=
s of the SFC


   policy.  For instance, classification might be relat=
ively coarse: all


   packets from this port are subject to SFC policy X and di=
rected into


   SFP A, or quite granular: all packets matching this 5-tup=
le are


   subject to SFC policy Y and directed into SFP B.


 


   As a consequence of the classification decision, the appr=
opriate SFC


   encapsulation is imposed on the data, and a suitable SFP =
is selected


   or created.  Classification results in attaching the=
 traffic to a


   specific SFP.


 


SB> How about:


 


SFC domain ingress traffic is first processed by a classifier which


either rejects the traffic or prepares it for processing by the requir=
ed


SFs. The classifier applies policy to the packet to determine the requ=
ired


SFC, and then to map that to the required SFP. The classifier applies<=
o:p>


the corresponding SFE and if necessary the appropriate network layer


encapsulation and forwards the packet to the first SFF on the chain.


 










This seems to leave out and awful set of details. An=
d why first either rejects or prepares?














 


 


 4.8.  Re-Classification and Branching


 


   The SFC architecture supports re-classification (or non-i=
nitial


   classification) as well.  


 


SB> This is interesting, surely the packet only enters the


SB> SFC when it has been been classified (including the null classi=
fication)


SB> and has the SFE applied?


 


   As packets traverse an SFP, re-


   classification may occur - typically performed by a class=
ification


   function co-resident with a service function.  =



SB> Architecturally you may always want to include a reclassifier


SB> on exit (and may be entry) to every SF. It may be null, but it'=
s


SB> probably better that it is there.


 


   Reclassification may


   result in the selection of a new SFP, an update of the as=
sociated


   metadata, or both.  This is referred to as "bra=
nching".


 


   For example, an initial classification results in the sel=
ection of


   SFP A: DPI_1 --> SLB_8.  However, when the DPI se=
rvice function is


   executed, attack traffic is detected at the application l=
ayer.  DPI_1


   re-classifies the traffic as attack and alters the servic=
e path to


   SFP B, to include a firewall for policy enforcement: drop=
ping the


   traffic: DPI_1 --> FW_4.  Subsequent to FW_4, sur=
viving traffic would


   be returned to the original SFF.  In this simple exa=
mple, the DPI


   service function re-classifies the traffic based on local=
 application


   layer classification capabilities (that were not availabl=
e during the


   initial classification step).


 


   When traffic arrives after being steered through an SFC-u=
naware SF,


   the SFC Proxy must perform re-classification of traffic t=
o determine


   the SFP.  The SFC Proxy is concerned with re-attachi=
ng information


 


SB> This should have been part of the earlier proxy functional defi=
nition.


SB> Maybe if you moved this up earlier before proxy it would all be=
 clearer.


 


 


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   for SFC-unaware SFs, and a stateful SFC Proxy simplifies =
such


   classification to a flow lookup.


 


4.9.  Shared Metadata


 


SB> Isn't metadata always shared? If no one else sees it, there is<=
o:p>


SB> no point in generating it.


 












 




It describes a key characteristic. Like saying ̶=
0;differentiated strategy” — isn’t it always? This improv=
es the text with appropriate qualifiers.














   Sharing metadata allows the network to provide network-de=
rived


   information to the SFs, SF-to-SF information exchange and=
 the sharing


   of service-derived information to the network.  Some=
 SFCs may not


   require metadata exchange.  SFC infrastructure enabl=
es the exchange


   of this shared data along the SFP.  The shared metad=
ata serves


   several possible roles within the SFC architecture:<=
/o:p>


 


   o  Allows elements that typically operate as ships i=
n the night to


      exchange information.


 


SB> That is a sort of tautology. If they share MD they are not true=



SB> SITN. Surely this is about in band and outband state sharing.










I think you missed the “typically”.














 


   o  Encodes information about the network and/or data=
 for post-


      service forwarding.


 


   o  Creates an identifier used for policy binding by =
SFs.


 


   Context information can be derived in several ways:<=
/o:p>


 


SB> This list does not scan properly from the intro fragment above.=



 


   o  External sources


 


   o  Network node classification


 


   o  Service function classification


 


 


 


 5.  Additional Architectural Concepts


 


   There are a number of issues which solutions need to addr=
ess, and


   which the architecture informs but does not determine.&nb=
sp; This section


   lays out some of those concepts.


 


5.1.  The Role of Policy


 


   Much of the behavior of service chains is driven by opera=
tor and per-


   customer policy.  This architecture is structured to=
 isolate the


   policy interactions from the data plane and control logic=
.


 


   Specifically, it is assumed that the service chaining con=
trol plane


   creates the service paths.  The service chaining dat=
a plane is used


   to deliver the classified packets along the service chain=
s to the


   intended service functions.


 


   Policy, in contrast, interacts with the system in other p=
laces.


   Policies and policy engines may monitor service functions=
 to decide


   if additional (or fewer) instances of services are needed=
.  


 


SB> This seems to be conflating policy and resource management, and=



SB> I am not sure this is wise. The resource manager should consult=



SB> policy, but the problems are distinct.


 


   When


 


 


 


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   applicable, those decisions may in turn result in interac=
tions that


   direct the control logic to change the SFP placement or p=
acket


   classification rules.


 


   Similarly, operator service policy, often managed by oper=
ational or


   business support systems (OSS or BSS), will frequently de=
termine what


   service functions are available.  Operator service p=
olicies also


   determine which sequences of functions are valid and are =
to be used


   or made available.


 


   The offering of service chains to customers, and the sele=
ction of


   which service chain a customer wishes to use, are driven =
by a


   combination of operator and customer policies using appro=
priate


   portals in conjunction with the OSS and BSS tools.  =
These selections


   then drive the service chaining control logic, which in t=
urn


   establishes the appropriate packet classification rules.<=
o:p>


 


 


SB> Didn't you just say the above. In any case it might be better i=
n


SB> the form of an intro rather than a conclusion.


 


 5.2.  SFC Control Plane


 


   This is part of the overall architecture but outside the =
scope of


   this document.


 


SB> The specifics of the architecture of the CP may be out of scope=



SB> but I cannot see how it can be out of scope of the main


SB> architecture, unless you want to reclassify this as the SFC pac=
ket


SB> plane architecture.


SB>


SB> As I read more of this text I am unclear why this in not promot=
ed


SB> to the main body of the text.


 


 


    The SFC control plane is responsible for constructi=
ng SFPs,


   translating SFCs to forwarding paths and propagating path=
 information


   to participating nodes to achieve requisite forwarding be=
havior to


   construct the service overlay.  For instance, an SFC=
 construction may


   be static; selecting exactly which SFFs and which SFs fro=
m those SFFs


   are to be used, or it may be dynamic, allowing the networ=
k to perform


   some or all of the choices of SFF or SF to use to deliver=
 the


   selected service chain within the constraints represented=
 by the


   service path.


 


   In the SFC architecture, SFs are resources; 

 


SB> SFs or SF instances? I don't think it becomes an accountable 


SB> resource until it is instantiated.


 


   the control plane manages


   and communicates their capabilities, availability and loc=
ation in


   fashions suitable for the transport and SFC operations in=
 use.  The


   control plane is also responsible for the creation of the=
 context


   (see below).  The control plane may be distributed (=
using new or


   existing control plane protocols), or be centralized, or =
a


   combination of the two.


 


   The SFC control plane provides the following functionalit=
y:


 


   1.  An SFC-enabled domain wide view of all available=
 service function


       resources as well as the network =
locators through which they are


       reachable.


 


   2.  Uses SFC policy to construct service function ch=
ains, and


       associated service function paths=
.


 


 


 


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   3.  Selection of specific SFs for a requested SFC, e=
ither statically


       (using specific SFs) or dynamical=
ly (using service explicit SFs


       at the time of delivering traffic=
 to them).


 


   4.  Provides requisite SFC data plane information to=
 the SFC


       architecture components, most not=
ably the SFF.


 


   5.  Allocation of metadata associated with a given S=
FP and


       propagation of the metadata to re=
levant SFs and/or SFC


       encapsulation-proxies or their re=
spective policy planes.


 


SB> I am not sure what it means to allocate metadata. Do you mean


SB> MD storage, or MD packet space?












 




Neither — defining what is relevant MD for a g=
iven SFP.














 


 5.3.  Resource Control


 


   The SFC system may be responsible for managing all resour=
ces


   necessary for the SFC components to function.  This =
includes network


   constraints used to plan and choose network path(s) betwe=
en service


   function forwarders, network communication paths between =
service


   function forwarders and their attached service functions,=



   characteristics of the nodes themselves such as memory, n=
umber of


   virtual interfaces, routes, and instantiation, configurat=
ion, and


   deletion of SFs.


 


   The SFC system will also be required to reflect policy de=
cisions


   about resource control, as expressed by other components =
in the


   system.


 


   While all of these aspects are part of the overall system=
, they are


   beyond the scope of this architecture.


 


 


SB> The relationship between the RC/RM and the CP seems unclear.


 


 5.4.  Infinite Loop Detection and Avoidance

 


   This SFC architecture is predicated on topological indepe=
ndence from


   the underlying forwarding topology.  Consequently, a=
 service topology


   is created by Service Function Paths or by the local deci=
sions of the


   Service Function Forwarders based on the constraints expr=
essed in the


   SFP.  


 


SB> The concept of service topologies and overlays would be useful =
much earlier in the text.


 


   Due to the overlay constraints, the packet-forwarding pat=
h may


   need to visit the same SFF multiple times, and in some le=
ss common


   cases may even need to visit the same SF more than once.&=
nbsp; The Service


   Chaining solution needs to permit these limited and polic=
y-compliant


   loops.  At the same time, the solutions must ensure =
that indefinite


   and unbounded loops cannot be formed, as such would consu=
me unbounded


   resources without delivering any value.


 


   In other words, this architecture prevents infinite Servi=
ce Function


   Loops, even when Service Functions may be invoked multipl=
e times in


   the same SFP.


 


SB> You say it does, but I don't see how it does it. Do you anticip=
ate


SB> it happening in the CP or the DP or both?


SB> 


 










Both.














 


 


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5.5.  Load Balancing Considerations


 


   Supporting function elasticity and high-availability shou=
ld not


   overly complicate SFC or lead to unnecessary scalability =
problems.


 


   In the simplest case, where there is only a single functi=
on in the


   SFP (the next hop is either the destination address of th=
e flow or


   the appropriate next hop to that destination), one could =
argue that


   there may be no need for SFC.


 


SB> It is unusual to lead with the dejenerate case (i.e. no SFC)


 










Noted. It’s going from simple to complex.














   In the cases where the classifier is separate from the si=
ngle


   function or a function at the terminal address may need s=
ub-prefix or


   per-subscriber metadata, a single SFP exists (the metadat=
a changes


   but the SFP does not), regardless of the number of potent=
ial terminal


   addresses for the flow.  This is the case of the sim=
ple load


   balancer.  See Figure 4.


 


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;   +---+    +---++--->=
web server


           &nbs=
p;      source+-->|sff|+-->|sf1|+=
;--->web server


           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;   +---+    +---++--->=
web server


 


           &nbs=
p;          Figure 4: Simple L=
oad Balancing


 


   By extrapolation, in the case where intermediary function=
s within a


   chain had similar "elastic" behaviors, we do no=
t need separate chains


   to account for this behavior - as long as the traffic coa=
lesces to a


   common next-hop after the point of elasticity.=



 


   In Figure 5, we have a chain of five service functions be=
tween the


   traffic source and its destination.


 


           &nbs=
p;    +---+ +---+ +---+   =
+---+ +---+ +---+


           &nbs=
p;    |sf2| |sf2| |sf3|   |sf3| |sf4| |sf4|


           &nbs=
p;    +---+ +---+ +---+   =
+---+ +---+ +---+


           &nbs=
p;      |     |  &nb=
sp;  |       |     |=
     |


           &nbs=
p;      +-----+-----+   =
;    +-----+-----+


           &nbs=
p;            | =
;            &n=
bsp;     |


           &nbs=
p;            +&=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      +


           &nbs=
p; +---+    +---+     &#=
43;---+     +---+    +--=
-+


   source+-->|sff|+-->|sff|+--->|sff|&#=
43;--->|sff|+-->|sff|+-->destination


            &nb=
sp;+---+    +---+     &#=
43;---+     +---+    +--=
-+


           &nbs=
p;   +         &=
nbsp;        +   &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp; +


           &nbs=
p;   |          =
;        |     =
             |<=
o:p>


           &nbs=
p; +---+          =
;    +---+       =
       +---+


           &nbs=
p; |sf1|           &=
nbsp;  |sf3|          &nb=
sp;   |sf5|


           &nbs=
p; +---+          =
;    +---+       =
       +---+


 


           &nbs=
p;             =
Figure 5: Load Balancing


 


 


 


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   This would be represented as one service function path:


   sf1->sf2->sf3->sf4->sf5.  The SFF is a l=
ogical element, which may be


   made up of one or multiple components.  In this arch=
itecture, the SFF


   may handle load distribution based on policy.<=
/pre>

 


   It can also be seen in the above that the same service fu=
nction may


   be reachable through multiple SFFs, as discussed earlier.=
  The


   selection of which SFF to use to reach SF3 may be made by=
 the control


   logic in defining the SFP, or may be left to the SFFs the=
mselves,


   depending upon policy, solution, and deployment constrain=
ts.  In the


   latter case, it needs to be assured that exactly one SFF =
takes


   responsibility to steer traffic through SF3.

 


 


SB> Shouldn't the architecture lead with the general case and note<=
o:p>


SB> that any function can be replaced with the null function.<=
/o:p>


 


 5.6.  MTU and Fragmentation Considerations


 


   This architecture prescribes additional information being=
 added to


   packets to identify service function paths and often to r=
epresent


   metadata.  It also envisions adding transport inform=
ation to carry


   packets along service function paths, at least between se=
rvice


   function forwarders.  This added information increas=
es the size of


   the packet to be carried by service chaining.  Such =
additions could


   potentially increase the packet size beyond the MTU suppo=
rted on some


   or all of the media used in the service chaining domain.<=
o:p>


 


   Such packet size increases can thus cause operational MTU=
 problems.


   Requiring fragmentation and reassembly in an SFF would be=
 a major


   processing increase, and might be impossible with some tr=
ansports.


 


SB> Sure but the SFE is teh network layer of the SFC plane and coul=
d


SB> do this.


 


   Expecting service functions to deal with packets fragment=
ed by the


   SFC function might be onerous even when such fragmentatio=
n was


   possible.  Thus, at the very least, solutions need t=
o pay attention


   to the size cost of their approach.  There may be al=
ternative or


   additional means available, although any solution needs t=
o consider


   the tradeoffs.


 


   These considerations apply to any generic architecture th=
at increases


   the header size.  There are also more specific MTU c=
onsiderations:


   Effects on Path MTU Discovery (PMTUD) as well as deployme=
nt


   considerations.  Deployments within a single adminis=
trative control


   or even a single Data Center complex can afford more flex=
ibility in


   dealing with larger packets, and deploying existing mitig=
ations that


   decrease the likelihood of fragmentation or discard.=



 


5.7.  SFC OAM


 


   Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) tools a=
re an


   integral part of the architecture.  These serve vari=
ous purposes,


   including fault detection and isolation, and performance =
management.


   For example, there are many advantages of SFP liveness de=
tection,


 


 


 


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   including status reporting, support for resiliency operat=
ions and


   policies, and an enhanced ability to balance load.


 


   Service Function Paths create a services topology, and OA=
M performs


   various functions within this service layer.  Furthe=
rmore, SFC OAM


   follows the same architectural principles of SFC in gener=
al.  For


   example, topological independence (including the ability =
to run OAM


   over various overlay technologies) and classification-bas=
ed policy.


 


   We can subdivide the SFC OAM architecture in two parts:


 


   o  In-band: OAM packets follow the same path and sha=
re fate with user


      packets, within the service topology.&n=
bsp; For this, they also follow


      the architectural principle of consiste=
nt policy identifiers, and


      use the same path IDs as the service ch=
ain data packets.  Load


      balancing and SFC encapsulation with pa=
cket forwarding are


      particularly important here.=



 


   o  Out-of-band: reporting beyond the actual data pla=
ne.  An


      additional layer beyond the data-plane =
OAM allows for additional


      alerting and measurements.

 


   This architecture prescribes end-to-end SFP OAM functions=
, which


   implies SFF understanding of whether an in-band packet is=
 an OAM or


   user packet.  However, service function validation i=
s outside of the


   scope of this architecture, and application-level OAM is =
not what


   this architecture prescribes.


 


   Some of the detailed functions performed by SFC OAM inclu=
de fault


   detection and isolation in a Service Function Path or a S=
ervice


   Function, verification that connectivity using SFPs is bo=
th effective


   and directing packets to the intended service functions, =
service path


   tracing, diagnostic and fault isolation, alarm reporting,=
 performance


   measurement, locking and testing of service functions, va=
lidation


   with the control plane (see Section 5.2), and also allow =
for vendor-


   specific as well as experimental functions.  SFC sho=
uld leverage, and


   if needed extend relevant existing OAM mechanisms.


 


5.8.  Resilience and Redundancy


 


   As a practical operational requirement, any service chain=
ing solution


   needs to be able to respond effectively, and usually very=
 quickly, to


   failure conditions.  These may be failures of connec=
tivity in the


   network between SFFs, failures of SFFs, or failures of SF=
s.  Per-SF


   state, as for example stateful-firewall state, is the res=
ponsibility


   of the SF, and not addressed by this architecture.


 


 


 


 


 


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   Multiple techniques are available to address this issue.&=
nbsp; Solutions


   can describe both what they require and what they allow t=
o address


   failure.  Solutions can make use of flexible specifi=
city of service


   function paths, if the SFF can be given enough informatio=
n in a


   timely fashion to do this.  Solutions can also make =
use of MAC or IP


   level redundancy mechanisms such as VRRP.  Also, par=
ticularly for SF


   failures, load balancers co-located with the SFF or as pa=
rt of the


   service function delivery mechanism can provide such robu=
stness.


 


   Similarly, operational requirements imply resilience in t=
he face of


   load changes.  While mechanisms for managing (e.g., =
monitoring,


   instantiating, loading images, providing configuration to=
 service


   function chaining control, deleting, etc.) virtual machin=
es are out


   of scope for this architecture, solutions can and are aid=
ed by


   describing how they can make use of scaling mechanisms.


 


 


SB> Given that we are introducing a new network layer construct inc=
luding


SB> something that is or is a very close cousin to a network layer,=
 surely


SB> we are missing an opportunity by not including this on day one.=



 


 


 6.  Security Considerations


 


   This document does not define a new protocol and therefor=
e creates no


   new security issues.


 


   Security considerations apply to the realization of this<=
o:p>


   architecture.  Such realization ought to provide mea=
ns to protect the


   SFC-enabled domain and its borders against various forms =
of attacks,


   including DDoS attacks.  Further, SFC OAM Functions =
need to not


   negatively affect the security considerations of an SFC-e=
nabled


   domain.  Additionally, all entities (software or har=
dware)


   interacting with the service chaining mechanisms need to =
provide


   means of security against malformed, poorly configured (d=
eliberate or


   not) protocol constructs and loops.  These considera=
tions are largely


   the same as those in any network, particularly an overlay=
 network.


 


 


SB> I just don't buy this for a security analysis. The Architecture=
 needs


SB> direct the compenent designers to look at security issues assoc=
iated


SB> with the new components and functionality being introduced.


SB> For example the SFE will have special considerations, so will t=
he 


SB> the path changes that you talk about earlier. Then there is res=
ource


SB> conflicts and their impact as a security problem. Then there is=
 the 


SB> issue of privacy. Really each component of the ach needs to be =
looked


SB> at from a security PoV and guidance provided to the component d=
esigner.


 












 




Text?






 






Thanks,






 






Carlos.














- Stewart


 













-- 


For corporate legal information go to:


 


http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html=



 










 
--_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E775B01MBX021W3CA2exch_-- From nobody Mon Dec 1 07:14:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590851A1BF8 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 07:14:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_TAG_BALANCE_BODY=1.157, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gUZ8KN4Cn_kH for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 07:14:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client 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sB1FEHoS001970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Dec 2014 15:14:17 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 09:14:16 -0600 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Ron Parker Thread-Topic: Some concerns about draft-ietf-sfc-architecture Thread-Index: AQHP/rWshxQ4ady89E6q0aScYPtEIpx6m4aAgABMSFCAAHJLgA== Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 15:14:16 +0000 Message-ID: <101C72FB-20C4-433D-B115-EB8FD13B11FF@cisco.com> References: <5463BD7D.6000007@cisco.com> <5463C03D.3040202@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.150.53.143] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_101C72FB20C4433DB115EB8FD13B11FFciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/MsmTNXYosAMUP_0m0kpABcoCtEE Cc: "sfc-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sfc-architecture@tools.ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" Subject: Re: [sfc] Some concerns about draft-ietf-sfc-architecture X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 15:14:39 -0000 --_000_101C72FB20C4433DB115EB8FD13B11FFciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIFJvbiwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgZm9sbG93LXVwIOKAlCBwbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGlu ZS4NCg0KT24gRGVjIDEsIDIwMTQsIGF0IDk6NDYgQU0sIFJvbiBQYXJrZXIgPFJvbl9QYXJrZXJA YWZmaXJtZWRuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb208bWFpbHRvOlJvbl9QYXJrZXJAYWZmaXJtZWRuZXR3b3Jrcy5j b20+PiB3cm90ZToNCg0KQ2FybG9zLA0KDQpBIGZldyBjb21tZW50cyByZWdhcmRpbmcgeW91ciBy ZXNwb25zZXPigKYNCg0KDQpyZWdhcmRpbmc6DQoNCg0KIENsYXNzaWZpY2F0aW9uOiAgTG9jYWxs eSBpbnN0YW50aWF0ZWQgcG9saWN5IGFuZCBjdXN0b21lci9uZXR3b3JrLw0KDQogICAgICAgIHNl 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dGV4dC1kZWNvcmF0aW9uOiB1bmRlcmxpbmU7IiBjbGFzcz0iIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3LmNpc2NvLmNv bS93ZWIvYWJvdXQvZG9pbmdfYnVzaW5lc3MvbGVnYWwvY3JpL2luZGV4Lmh0bWw8L2E+PC9wcmU+ DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0K PC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9i b2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_101C72FB20C4433DB115EB8FD13B11FFciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Dec 2 12:40:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8484B1A7002; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:40:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31OH3s1sY1iX; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ADB51A6FE2; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:40:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141202204037.24383.87620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 12:40:37 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/N0u4_uKNMmxxfUYVR0Ca5ix741c Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 20:40:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining Working Group of the IETF. Title : SFC Long-lived Flow Use Cases Authors : Ram Krishnan Anoop Ghanwani Joel Halpern Sriganesh Kini Diego Lopez Filename : draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2014-12-02 Abstract: Long-lived flows such as file transfers, video streams are common in today's networks. In the context of service function chaining, this draft suggests use cases for dynamic bypass of certain service functions for such flows. The benefit of this approach would be to avoid expensive Layer 7 service function processing for such flows based on dynamic decisions and thus improve overall performance. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 2 14:35:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B331A1B21 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:35:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PHc4Cs8qvEx1 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:35:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com (mail-wi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 574A11A1AF2 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:35:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f175.google.com with SMTP id l15so29686222wiw.8 for ; Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:35:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=I8RQM8cIzeB6bkiSU7pOjF0B2kIIEZKWmyVxrJCZXaI=; b=xSeRb9LzixRpGJjoHExLac2yZXM6hfMgu29n6VdVgngaMEFyZmZe7nj57xoc1KCBda 6c2iHa+K1EXqxeg1QE0vXHsuSLXM3bf1BS2Cvril9tzP1epWGnLS+/Z+u/U6NXn0G+aB I1FTez1u8sVbLAs9g5rkKal8eHrXSVGXZIhiq8yCS8aESMDu7wgNmSf/NTuOKaAT5kxg +Wp8oFjluIGpcZp0wu0etuhDZScJQvFvOpBM49zH0ibwD57oh+hiZODsbYjM/8UGMw4n hlG9nL6PgPPhzs7nmDGEN72/K3ye8apv7iFGdV2ikl4PE96g+8v329g9TNXGArYeb4Nm Fbhw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.206.47 with SMTP id ll15mr389325wic.34.1417559720142; Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:35:20 -0800 (PST) Sender: ghanwani@gmail.com Received: by 10.27.188.213 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:35:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141202204037.24383.87620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20141202204037.24383.87620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:35:20 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Gn9Gz7XG8orVjPW1oe1Np44CScs Message-ID: From: Anoop Ghanwani To: "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c25c20912df305094357f2 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/oyLvaEuIIFFUN46QdNBOcGo-SHs Subject: Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 22:35:23 -0000 --001a11c25c20912df305094357f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This version just has minor editorial changes. Anoop On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 12:40 PM, wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining Working Group > of the IETF. > > Title : SFC Long-lived Flow Use Cases > Authors : Ram Krishnan > Anoop Ghanwani > Joel Halpern > Sriganesh Kini > Diego Lopez > Filename : draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01.txt > Pages : 9 > Date : 2014-12-02 > > Abstract: > Long-lived flows such as file transfers, video streams are common in > today's networks. In the context of service function chaining, this > draft suggests use cases for dynamic bypass of certain service > functions for such flows. The benefit of this approach would be to > avoid expensive Layer 7 service function processing for such flows > based on dynamic decisions and thus improve overall performance. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --001a11c25c20912df305094357f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This version just has minor editorial changes.
Anoop

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 12:40 PM, <internet-drafts@iet= f.org> wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
=A0This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining Working Group= of the IETF.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Title=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: SFC Long-lived Flow Use Cases=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Authors=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: Ram Krishnan
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Anoop Ghanwani
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Joel Halpern
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Sriganesh Kini
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Diego Lopez
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Filename=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-us= e-cases-01.txt
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Pages=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: 9
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Date=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : 2014-12-02

Abstract:
=A0 =A0Long-lived flows such as file transfers, video streams are common in=
=A0 =A0today's networks. In the context of service function chaining, t= his
=A0 =A0draft suggests use cases for dynamic bypass of certain service
=A0 =A0functions for such flows. The benefit of this approach would be to =A0 =A0avoid expensive Layer 7 service function processing for such flows =A0 =A0based on dynamic decisions and thus improve overall performance.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-s= fc-long-lived-flow-use-cases/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-long-li= ved-flow-use-cases-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-= ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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--001a11c25c20912df305094357f2-- From nobody Wed Dec 3 10:16:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C2B1A1BF3 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:16:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aaeSN3dSmU-e for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:15:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x22d.google.com (mail-pa0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16E1A1A1B86 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:15:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id lj1so16286269pab.32 for ; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:15:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=ypEWVLVfpyxBP8uqsCeVzRG82lcZM7o5OzivMsWgsYs=; b=uxJ6MNcwhjkGlSXm0IMjPUdtNv/uIU0TzQBMSV6vV5Z2PfMkzSG1LJ+RwFzi1BOnye d2OWp5ddL60FcZLhH/0KYseB3zb+JW+hI6nnQ56wfhM9uEbXl8E5VpsAp6pl+DDlAs1m 63a74PP+MOPDOkCu4RMe8J9XSkwcY7UN5vk868a/XQfLiHDs3msYyKee2P3sqST0jKpk DbFMen6jLxo/H6gvPcvV3atlVKeGfUykyY+AO/PKNGSVbYK1TSkejpCUWaLpD8OIq8W3 ee6d/7VH0SrWxR7f/Y/mlQ45FPD7vtO2HAGL9RJNUagRvMZOU/II8GY72hbZT1uUkHvo ZCMw== X-Received: by 10.66.165.70 with SMTP id yw6mr10690732pab.97.1417630555316; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:15:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-107-3-154-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [107.3.154.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id oe6sm23620820pbc.68.2014.12.03.10.15.54 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:15:54 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_19286E56-00E8-4FAA-9EF2-000511ECDB0B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Sam Aldrin In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:15:53 -0800 Message-Id: <1E3E07F1-784C-4007-81DE-064AA6980855@gmail.com> References: To: David Allan I X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/qi1ADs0XXOFratIaCJeZeh4vn7Y Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] OAM discussion.... X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:16:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_19286E56-00E8-4FAA-9EF2-000511ECDB0B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Dave, Thanks for your comments, both at the mic and recap via email. Sorry for = the delay in responding to your email. Please find responses inline. > On Nov 11, 2014, at 1:21 PM, David Allan I = wrote: >=20 > Hi > =20 > A recap of my comments stated and unstated at the mike=E2=80=A6.. > =20 > 1) We need to sort out and document the difference between what = can be achieved by explicit protocol design, and what requires = impersonation of application traffic by a =E2=80=9Cgolden customer=E2=80=9D= or similar concept. The latter requiring some larger wrapper that = encapsulates the SFC infrastructure and can inject and measure non-OAM = application impersonating traffic. There are two aspects, w.r.t. SFC. 1. Describing the SFC OAM framework aspects and requirements and 2. (to your point), what should/could be achieved by explicit protocol = design.=20 Whether one could achieve with actual traffic or synthetic traffic will = be part of the solution and this document is not proscribing it. This is = one aspect, we as a WG should ensure the SFC architecture and protocol = design work is coherent with SFC OAM requirements. Agree to your concern = and we do understand the implications with mimicing traffic to test SF. > =20 > IMO there is nothing about an SF can be usefully tested by a specific = OAM protocol as it will not fate share with any aspect of the function = as the SF will be application specific and the OAM won=E2=80=99t be. So = there is no point in trying/pretending. IMO a specific OAM protocol = should be able to verify the service graph for a given SFP and that is = about it, and we should focus on what aspects of the infrastructure that = can be tested via explicit protocol design. IMO that would be limited to = aspects of path configuration and fault management. Performance = measurement being impossible. I do hope the document is not creating any incorrect presumption of what = SFC OAM is pretending to be. If so, we welcome suggestion for changes = and will be happy to accommodate it. As presented at IETF, SFC OAM only = care whether SF is =E2=80=98up' or not. > =20 > 2) As for the Golden Customer concept, Luca raised a good point = that such traffic should not be able to leak into the larger network. = MPLS OAM uses the 127/8 prefix to do this. So solutions exist. This is fundamental design of all OAM protocols within IETF and SFC OAM = doesn=E2=80=99t change the definition either. Intact, MPLS OAM uses lot = more, not just local host address, so as not to leak beyond the = boundary. VCCV is also another example. > =20 > 3) The language needs a bit of work. At first I found it = incomprehensible, primary because of the abuse of the term = =E2=80=9Cavailability=E2=80=9D. To an OAM guy, availability is a = =E2=80=9Cmetric=E2=80=9D (e.g. 99.993% uptime), and not a =E2=80=9Cstate=E2= =80=9D. Reading the document suggests that =E2=80=9Cavailability=E2=80=9D = is really referring to a =E2=80=9Cstate=E2=80=9D.=20 Nod. Will definitely confirm to the RFC7276, which specifies the OAM = terminology, in the next version. > =20 > That being said I highly suspect that it will provide impossible to = define an availability metric or set of metrics for a service function = path (purpose being customer facing) or an individual service function = (purpose being supplier auditing) although I could see a business = rationale for trying ;-)=E2=80=A6=20 > =20 > 4) What we could consider would be a framework whereby vendors = could offer test scripts for the =E2=80=9Cgolden customer=E2=80=9D = (treating the chain as a black box DUT) IF the group believes such = functionality is ultimately required. I=E2=80=99m not sure we would = really want to standardize this vs. simply suggest the possibility and = leave it to SF providers to sort out. If it requires interoperability across vendor land, definitely worth = deliberating. If not, we could leave it to =E2=80=98winter vendor land = :D Cheers -sam > =20 > That=E2=80=99s the view from here > Dave > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc = --Apple-Mail=_19286E56-00E8-4FAA-9EF2-000511ECDB0B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Dave,

Thanks for your = comments, both at the mic and recap via email. Sorry for the delay in = responding to your email. Please find responses = inline.

On Nov 11, 2014, at 1:21 PM, = David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi
 
A recap = of my comments stated and unstated at the mike=E2=80=A6..
 
1)      We need to = sort out and document the difference between what can be achieved by = explicit protocol design, and what requires impersonation of application = traffic by a =E2=80=9Cgolden customer=E2=80=9D or similar concept. The = latter requiring some larger wrapper that encapsulates the SFC = infrastructure and can inject and measure non-OAM application = impersonating traffic.
There are two aspects, w.r.t. = SFC.
1.= Describing the SFC OAM framework aspects and requirements = and
2.= (to your point), what should/could be achieved by explicit protocol = design. 

Whether one could achieve with actual traffic or synthetic = traffic will be part of the solution and this document is not = proscribing it. This is one aspect, we as a WG should ensure the SFC = architecture and protocol design work is coherent with SFC OAM = requirements. Agree to your concern and we do understand the = implications with mimicing traffic to test = SF.
 
IMO there is nothing about an SF can be = usefully tested by a specific OAM protocol as it will not fate share = with any aspect of the function as the SF will be application specific = and the OAM won=E2=80=99t be. So there is no point in trying/pretending. = IMO a specific OAM protocol should be able to verify the service graph = for a given SFP and that is about it, and we should focus on what = aspects of the infrastructure that can be tested via explicit protocol = design. IMO that would be limited to aspects of path configuration and = fault management. Performance measurement being = impossible.

I do hope the document is not creating any = incorrect presumption of what SFC OAM is pretending to be. If so, we = welcome suggestion for changes and will be happy to accommodate it. As = presented at IETF, SFC OAM only care whether SF is =E2=80=98up' or = not.
 
2)      As for the = Golden Customer concept, Luca raised a good point that such traffic = should not be able to leak into the larger network. MPLS OAM uses the = 127/8 prefix to do this. So solutions = exist.

This is fundamental design of all OAM protocols within IETF = and SFC OAM doesn=E2=80=99t change the definition either. Intact, MPLS = OAM uses lot more, not just local host address, so as not to leak beyond = the boundary. VCCV is also another = example.
 
3)      The language = needs a bit of work. At first I found it incomprehensible, primary = because of the abuse of the term =E2=80=9Cavailability=E2=80=9D. To an = OAM guy, availability is a =E2=80=9Cmetric=E2=80=9D (e.g. 99.993% = uptime), and not a =E2=80=9Cstate=E2=80=9D. Reading the document = suggests that =E2=80=9Cavailability=E2=80=9D is really referring to a = =E2=80=9Cstate=E2=80=9D. 

Nod. Will definitely = confirm to the RFC7276, which specifies the OAM terminology, in the next = version.
 
That being said I highly suspect that = it will provide impossible to define an availability metric or set of = metrics for a service function path (purpose being customer facing) or = an individual service function (purpose being supplier auditing) = although I could see a business rationale for trying ;-)=E2=80=A6 
 
4)      What we could = consider would be a framework whereby vendors could offer test scripts = for the =E2=80=9Cgolden customer=E2=80=9D (treating the chain as a black = box DUT) IF the group believes such functionality is ultimately = required. I=E2=80=99m not sure we would really want to standardize this = vs. simply suggest the possibility and leave it to SF providers to sort = out.

If it requires interoperability across vendor land, = definitely worth deliberating. If not, we could leave it to =E2=80=98winte= r vendor land :D

Cheers
-sam

 
That=E2=80=99= s the view from here
Dave
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

= --Apple-Mail=_19286E56-00E8-4FAA-9EF2-000511ECDB0B-- From nobody Wed Dec 3 10:46:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71E71A6F60 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:46:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wUEEYbukASF2 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C20B1A9085 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:46:42 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79376d000000ceb-67-547f0a810eab Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 79.9E.03307.18A0F745; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 14:05:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 13:46:33 -0500 From: David Allan I To: Sam Aldrin Thread-Topic: [sfc] OAM discussion.... Thread-Index: Ac/98dyot2erpWjCTzGv7EjJ18j0nwRXTjGAAAo6FMA= Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 18:46:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1E3E07F1-784C-4007-81DE-064AA6980855@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1E3E07F1-784C-4007-81DE-064AA6980855@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E6C17D2345AC7A45B7D054D407AA205C39338373eusaamb105erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlG4TV32Iwcn3ZhYTWr8wWjx5sJXd gclj56y77B5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MqYt/E/c8Gai4wV/at/MjUwvjjN2MXIwSEh YCLxa31tFyMnkCkmceHeerYuRi4OIYEjjBL9r+8wgSSEBJYxSpzcrAdiswkYSOz5/4URxBYR UJOYPO8mM4jNLKAo8ejWb7B6YQFViU2HZ7LA1CyYdIwdZJeIgJXE921OIGEWARWJB38Xg7Xy CvhKPG76zwqxt4FRYmbDA7AEp4CtxK71+9hBbEag476fWsMEsUtc4taT+UwQRwtILNlznhnC FpV4+fgfK4StJDFp6TlWiPp8iVl9DxghlglKnJz5hGUCo+gsJKNmISmbhaRsFtDZzAKaEut3 6c+C+nJK90N2CFtDonXOXHZk8QWM7KsYOUqLU8ty040MNjECo+qYBJvuDsY9Ly0PMQpwMCrx 8Brw1IUIsSaWFVfmHmKU5mBREuedVTsvWEggPbEkNTs1tSC1KL6oNCe1+BAjEwenVANj6Nof rtKvskM+y3AJ9v/UiEyavNbkyQqPoFuvyw/8mu4k73ptmpLB20MHLjXWly1lvvDzcEnLejmL mr2czDPLV9X3XL13PWr+o306iepXmjm0vzLtySlsUfqSKnRq14pnSlnOc9/rq594e7D2p2cN W7r8Hmmr3Q3MD6zPWZ8NErowp5BPLHyDEktxRqKhFnNRcSIA2Swfa4sCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/UQ9fo7eOmm--cjrYTCJcPZ3Uv80 Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] OAM discussion.... 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([173.36.12.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 16:53:39 -0600 From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" To: "Deepak Kumar (dekumar)" , "draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework@tools.ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Mail regarding draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework Thread-Index: AQHP/e6NCk2lBK7nW06FOr7svBp+LJx+lPyg Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 22:53:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [161.44.212.136] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/vc-flaB9UgCzWYDccjZpF97R8IM Subject: Re: [sfc] Mail regarding draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2014 22:53:56 -0000 Hi Deepak, Thanks for providing comments and apologies for this very delayed response. Please see in-line with [NOBO]. > -----Original Message----- > From: Deepak Kumar (dekumar) > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:32 PM > To: draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework@tools.ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Mail regarding draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework >=20 > Hi, >=20 > In section 2. SFC Layering Model >=20 > We have Service Layer which can also be broken down in the layers as > within a service Function chain we can have multiple SFPs due to one of t= he > SFF changing the classifier. [NOBO] You rightfully pointed out the absence of re-classification from the= document. This is a topic that needs to be covered as part of this documen= t and the Authors have been discussing this. Two approaches: (1) Classification point initiates the OAM to test the original SFP, and re= -classification point initiates the OAM to test the altered SFP. (2) Classification point initiates the OAM to test the SFP and the re-class= ification is simply treated as a branch (thus branch discovery/traversal wi= ll be able to exercise the altered SFP). Authors are leaning towards (1) as the model we should pursue, but we can u= se some input from the WG on this topic. >=20 > In Section 3.1 we are mentioning Availability which I am not sure is righ= t > term as performance management has concept of Availability also as a SLA, > as for customer finding loss is not that important SLA but important SLA = is > availability and unavailability of the flow over time as that's the SLA t= hat can > be sold. [NOBO] The usage of term will be made coherent with terminology of RFC7276.= Additionally, you've highlighted the potential benefit of this document ha= ving the terminology section. [NOBO] With that said, the statement "... customer finding loss is not that= important" from above is something that we should discuss. A complete outa= ge (i.e. lack of reachability) is obviously bad, but random/sporadic/interm= ittent packet losses can also be bad. However, I don't the it's the job of = this document to describe how bad they are, but to describe the framework o= f how they can be detected. So unless you think something is not important = at all to the SFC OAM, this document should describe the framework for it. = Thoughts? >=20 > To find faults in real time Alarm Indication Signal technique or notifica= tion > should also be considered, eg:- within a service function chain, one of t= he > SFF/SF is restarted and this belong to multiple SFC chain. [NOBO] The Continuity Check of the SFF/SF will allow SFC-aware entities to = detect the outage, this will allow the classifier to select another SFP or = the upstream SFF to select another NHOP SF. When you say "real time Alarm I= ndication", can you clarify which do you mean: (a) An SFC-aware entity to detect an outage and notify the outage alarm to = other SFC-aware entities. (b) An SFC-aware entity to detect an outage and notify the outage alarm to = the upper layer on the same entity (i.e., management layer). >=20 > In section 3.1.2 - This should be extended to say that protocol should be > able to provide the SLAs instead of delay, and loss calculation. Just los= s > calculation is not enough to determine availability of circuit. [NOBO] Hopefully this comment will be addressed by adding the terminology s= ection in this document. What we (Authors) are trying to achieve is to desc= ribe the SFC OAM Framework for Continuity Check (CC), Connectivity Verifica= tion (CV) and Performance Measurement (PM). CC is responsible for detecting= the complete outage. PM is responsible for detecting loss/delay measuremen= ts. >=20 > In section 4.1 >=20 > We should also add verify packet re-ordering and corruption in > unidrirectional connection. > Also we should say "Proactively and on-demand" test alternate or protecte= d > paths to ensure reliability of network configuration. [NOBO] Proactive and on demand are continuity and connectivity functions. A= s far as packet re-ordering etc, these are different mechanisms or toolset = which could be built on top of the 'SFC OAM'. I do not see any need to re-d= efine things like OWAMP/TWAMP mechanisms here, as they could be used here a= s well. >=20 > On Section 4.4 same Performance has to be extended. > Even for Performance we should have both proactive and on-demain > support from the protocool to be developer later. [NOBO] Same comment as above. >=20 > Most of the time Performance Measurement fails because OAM packet > doesn't take the same path as data path and also where the timestamping o= r > delay is measured. As "O" bit is in the header protocol has to be defined > such that "o" bit is not checked in middle of network. [NOBO] Yes agree, and this is what we specified in the slide presented at t= he IETF91. We will be porting some contents from the slide to the document = in the next revision. In essence: - If there is ECMP at the service layer, then the OAM must be able to relia= bly verify each and all the ECMP paths that data packets take - The SFF load balancing logic applied to both types of packets (OAM and da= ta) should be the same to preserve the in-band characteristics of OAM >=20 > Framework should atleast talk about Measurement Point. [NOBO] ACK. Thanks! -Nobo, on behalf of authors >=20 > Thanks, > Deepak From nobody Thu Dec 4 01:34:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 932941A00DF; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 01:34:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.859 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.859 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z_WPTcdDwZ3t; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 01:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from tcmail13.telekom.de (tcmail13.telekom.de [80.149.113.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50D7B1A0101; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 01:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from s4de8nsazdfe010.bmbg.telekom.de ([10.175.246.202]) by tcmail11.telekom.de with ESMTP; 04 Dec 2014 10:34:12 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,514,1413237600"; d="scan'208,217";a="578308336" Received: from he111630.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.22]) by q4de8nsa015.bmbg.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 04 Dec 2014 10:34:05 +0100 Received: from HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.124]) by HE111630.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 10:33:51 +0100 From: To: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 10:33:50 +0100 Thread-Topic: extra identifier need in SFC Thread-Index: AdAPpUjhmNn+H6uoQ0Kdyzhkj90+Ng== Message-ID: <05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A2E9F3BB42E@HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> Accept-Language: de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A2E9F3BB42EHE113484emea1_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/HhCvsOGUWktjbidPh3SIaRNonqw Cc: joelja@bogus.com, hiaps@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] extra identifier need in SFC X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:34:23 -0000 --_000_05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A2E9F3BB42EHE113484emea1_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Last May we had submitted a draft https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sarikaya-sfc-address-sharing-in-sfc-00 on host identification problem in SFC which addresses some related use cas= es and aims at discussion on corresponding requirements and architecture is= sues. In http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt whe= re solution design options are analyzed and recommendations given, the need= for an additional identifier is also mentioned. We are not sure whether this (not SFC specific) problem may call for soluti= ons complimentary to those for use cases which are currently considered in = SFC. To not overload or burden the WG with this issue at this time we think it m= ay be useful to proceed with discussions on these and possibly other relate= d use cases on the hiaps list (hiaps@ietf.org) deali= ng with Host Identification, Address and Prefix Sharing to take it up and g= o from there. What do you think? We invite SFC'ers to join hiaps if not already done and help us tackle this= problem. Regards, Dirk and Behcet --_000_05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A2E9F3BB42EHE113484emea1_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,<= /o:p>

 

Last May we had submitted a draft

= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sarikaya-sfc-address-sharing-in= -sfc-00

on  host identificat= ion problem in SFC which addresses some related use cases and aims at discu= ssion on corresponding requirements and architecture issues.

=

In http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sf= c-design-analysis-03.txt  where solution design options are analyz= ed and recommendations given, the need for an additional identifier is also= mentioned.

We are not sure whether t= his (not SFC specific) problem may call for solutions complimentary to thos= e for use cases which are currently considered in SFC.

To not overload or burden the WG with this issue at this = time we think it may be useful to proceed with discussions on these and pos= sibly other related use cases on the hiaps list (hiaps@ietf.org) dealing with Host Identification, Address and P= refix Sharing to take it up and go from there.

What do you think?

We invit= e SFC'ers to join hiaps if not already done and help us tackle this problem= .

 

Regards,

 

Dirk and Behcet

= --_000_05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A2E9F3BB42EHE113484emea1_-- From nobody Thu Dec 4 02:17:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20591A0149 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 02:17:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y6F1ygmvsqIc for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 02:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C95A11A0137 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 02:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BPO28945; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:17:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML516-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.78]) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.201.5.241]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 10:17:28 +0000 From: Georgios Karagiannis To: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVw== Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 10:17:28 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.64.158] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/5OAtbdkv6aMOC-73mjgEgj4Xzek Subject: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:17:41 -0000 Hi all, Please note that I was reviewing the SFC architecture draft, see below, and= I have a question: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt Can you please let me know if the current version of the SFC architecture=20 allows the use of different Service Function Chaining Header formats? These formats and their analysis can be found in Section 5 of the following= draft: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt If that is not the case, please elaborate why. Best regards, Georgios From nobody Thu Dec 4 05:46:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438611AD37E for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 05:46:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ft_dUyRWyDJw for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 05:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFF391A8979 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 05:46:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=990; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1417700772; x=1418910372; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=yMp8gsS8R4Db87tYfCAv+T+lh0qUrEBUiwJcpXPT/8A=; b=l3EnpO8URthDiLP23Ag9r1MTkDKjPJ/MQu5iKVHZIPn736dfdX4R1SVl T7zKujPNW3CNvr8Uk7WJ9rmE2jPN3/YvFQ2yktFXkclQDR+Mo3K2iqOyS Wre9Yo6MP2dFAPGVYpgmvQeLtWegqb7FD0kLmZIDFic2brFeSNxFsCuXc A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjAFALlkgFStJA2M/2dsb2JhbABagmQiUlgExCqCHAqGFgKBGxYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQMBAQEBNzQLBQsCAQgSBh4QJwsXDgEBBA4FCYgsCQEM1iEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXiy6FBTMHgySBHgWOGoF2ikqBIoMtj0iCNYFEbwGBRIEAAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,515,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="102636391" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Dec 2014 13:46:12 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com [173.36.12.78]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sB4DkCbA002872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Dec 2014 13:46:12 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com ([173.36.12.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:46:11 -0600 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Georgios Karagiannis Thread-Topic: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVwAT290A Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 13:46:11 +0000 Message-ID: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.102.156.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4EF045EA3BCC52458D96E941161E513B@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/COvZO7IfW66M02DJtlHw2uWEXTs Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 13:46:15 -0000 Hi, Georgios, The SFC architecture document concerns itself with the functions and not th= e format. Thanks, Carlos. > On Dec 4, 2014, at 5:17 AM, Georgios Karagiannis wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Please note that I was reviewing the SFC architecture draft, see below, a= nd I have a question: > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt >=20 >=20 > Can you please let me know if the current version of the SFC architecture= =20 > allows the use of different Service Function Chaining Header formats? >=20 > These formats and their analysis can be found in Section 5 of the followi= ng draft: >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt >=20 >=20 > If that is not the case, please elaborate why. >=20 > Best regards, > Georgios >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Thu Dec 4 05:55:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881561A1AB2 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 05:55:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ca7yGC01JoUO for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 05:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C3C71AD390 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 05:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BPO54678; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 13:55:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML516-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.78]) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 13:55:35 +0000 From: Georgios Karagiannis To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Thread-Topic: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVwAT290AAAxhE+A= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 13:55:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.64.158] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/drNTMk_wx4UnmMNgb_AmVxGlkO8 Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 13:55:47 -0000 Hi Carlos, Thanks for your answer! Does this mean that the SFC architecture is allowing the use of different S= ervice Function Chaining Header (SFC encapsulation) formats? I am referring to the different SFC encapsulation formats that are discusse= d in section 5 of the following ID: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt Best regards, Georgios > -----Original Message----- > From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 2:46 PM > To: Georgios Karagiannis > Cc: sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types= of > SFC header formats? >=20 > Hi, Georgios, >=20 > The SFC architecture document concerns itself with the functions and not = the > format. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Carlos. >=20 > > On Dec 4, 2014, at 5:17 AM, Georgios Karagiannis > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Please note that I was reviewing the SFC architecture draft, see below,= and > I have a question: > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt > > > > > > Can you please let me know if the current version of the SFC > > architecture allows the use of different Service Function Chaining Head= er > formats? > > > > These formats and their analysis can be found in Section 5 of the follo= wing > draft: > > > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt > > > > > > If that is not the case, please elaborate why. > > > > Best regards, > > Georgios > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Thu Dec 4 06:01:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D051AD3A6 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 06:01:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h24zAfqbrMw2 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 06:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E38751AD392 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 06:01:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2453; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1417701700; x=1418911300; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=uVBM6PM9FMrQamzHgZvY1BT/tiDDsnxOHCVC2IQdgDc=; b=muwA7za+6FeYAyMygpTdPuEdvq9BEFF+daU+rVEC3FR0/w3jilMUqkvh GHxsBhXEPF/mwvifAgz3cI0TFMYTY4dqF9Pafd5WHDb6WvddIB2aKxRkZ K2o/nNS4jQQSrl/FnfJcbzNulPJ9qSEnrw3HZf0jInFiLixLT66P9z8Ja M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjEFAHNogFStJV2c/2dsb2JhbABagmQiUlgExCqCHAqGFgKBGxYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQQBAQE3NAsMBAIBCBEBAwEBAR4JBycLFAMGCAEBBA4FCYg1AQzWMAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReLLoU4BwaEPAWOGoF2ikqBIoMti1+DaYI1gURvAYFEgQABAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,515,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="102641909" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Dec 2014 14:01:39 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com [173.37.183.88]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sB4E1dBl007136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Dec 2014 14:01:39 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([173.37.183.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:01:38 -0600 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Georgios Karagiannis Thread-Topic: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVwAT290AAAxhE+D//02BAA== Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 14:01:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.6.141106 x-originating-ip: [64.102.156.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <57764D28228A5749880CBC519E19F3B6@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/W3za6wEJR1nivh-BZFGx0tP3b7k Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 14:01:42 -0000 Hi, Georgios, Do you mean different SFC Encapsulations simultaneously? The SFC charter says: 3. Generic SFC Encapsulation: This document will describe a single service-level data plane encapsulation format that: Because interoperability is the goal. Looking at that section, the terminology does not seem to align to the arch and problem-statement documents. Also, that section seems to describe a pseudo-format, not a format. The architecture describes the functions in Section 4.1 and other places. Thanks, Carlos. On 12/4/14, 8:55 AM, "Georgios Karagiannis" wrote: >Hi Carlos, > >Thanks for your answer! > >Does this mean that the SFC architecture is allowing the use of different >Service Function Chaining Header (SFC encapsulation) formats? > >I am referring to the different SFC encapsulation formats that are >discussed in section 5 of the following ID: >http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt > >Best regards, >Georgios > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 2:46 PM >> To: Georgios Karagiannis >> Cc: sfc@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different >>types of >> SFC header formats? >>=20 >> Hi, Georgios, >>=20 >> The SFC architecture document concerns itself with the functions and >>not the >> format. >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> Carlos. >>=20 >> > On Dec 4, 2014, at 5:17 AM, Georgios Karagiannis >> wrote: >> > >> > Hi all, >> > >> > Please note that I was reviewing the SFC architecture draft, see >>below, and >> I have a question: >> > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt >> > >> > >> > Can you please let me know if the current version of the SFC >> > architecture allows the use of different Service Function Chaining >>Header >> formats? >> > >> > These formats and their analysis can be found in Section 5 of the >>following >> draft: >> > >> > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt >> > >> > >> > If that is not the case, please elaborate why. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > Georgios >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > sfc mailing list >> > sfc@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Thu Dec 4 06:40:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7A11AD3D0 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 06:40:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XCf4RTDgnuf2 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 06:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51D1E1AD3C9 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 06:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMJ34843; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 14:40:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML516-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.78]) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.201.5.241]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 14:40:39 +0000 From: Georgios Karagiannis To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Thread-Topic: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVwAT290AAAxhE+D//02BAIAAC9SA Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 14:40:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.64.158] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/P2MxhZi8sXobZFYqTbuvB-yaD6c Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 14:40:52 -0000 Hi Carlos, Please note that I do not mean to use different SFC encapsulations simultan= eously. >From what I understood from IETF'91 meeting discussions, the Generic SFC en= capsulation technique has not yet been selected by the SFC WG. I think that this means that the SFC architecture draft cannot be in favor = for one specific=20 SFC encapsulation technique and at the same time excluding other techniques= . My question is:=20 Can the following two SFC encapsulation techniques be supported by the func= tions described in the SFC architecture draft?: o) Single Marking Code Point, like format, see section 5.1 on boucadair dra= ft, see below. o) Explicit Route List, like format, see section 5.3 on boucadair draft, se= e below. http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt Best regards, Georgios > -----Original Message----- > From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 3:02 PM > To: Georgios Karagiannis > Cc: sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types= of > SFC header formats? >=20 > Hi, Georgios, >=20 > Do you mean different SFC Encapsulations simultaneously? The SFC charter > says: >=20 > > 3. Generic SFC Encapsulation: This document will describe a single > service-level data plane encapsulation format that: >=20 > >=20 > Because interoperability is the goal. >=20 > Looking at that section, the terminology does not seem to align to the ar= ch > and problem-statement documents. Also, that section seems to describe a > pseudo-format, not a format. The architecture describes the functions in > Section 4.1 and other places. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Carlos. >=20 > On 12/4/14, 8:55 AM, "Georgios Karagiannis" > wrote: >=20 > >Hi Carlos, > > > >Thanks for your answer! > > > >Does this mean that the SFC architecture is allowing the use of > >different Service Function Chaining Header (SFC encapsulation) formats? > > > >I am referring to the different SFC encapsulation formats that are > >discussed in section 5 of the following ID: > >http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt > > > >Best regards, > >Georgios > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] > >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 2:46 PM > >> To: Georgios Karagiannis > >> Cc: sfc@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different > >>types of SFC header formats? > >> > >> Hi, Georgios, > >> > >> The SFC architecture document concerns itself with the functions and > >>not the format. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Carlos. > >> > >> > On Dec 4, 2014, at 5:17 AM, Georgios Karagiannis > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi all, > >> > > >> > Please note that I was reviewing the SFC architecture draft, see > >>below, and > >> I have a question: > >> > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt > >> > > >> > > >> > Can you please let me know if the current version of the SFC > >> > architecture allows the use of different Service Function Chaining > >>Header > >> formats? > >> > > >> > These formats and their analysis can be found in Section 5 of the > >>following > >> draft: > >> > > >> > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt > >> > > >> > > >> > If that is not the case, please elaborate why. > >> > > >> > Best regards, > >> > Georgios > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > sfc mailing list > >> > sfc@ietf.org > >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > From nobody Thu Dec 4 07:02:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA26D1AD400 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:02:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K_LvdqDb_C8n for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:02:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0715.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:715]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5DAD1AD40A for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from DM2PR0301MB1280.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.221.149) by DM2PR0301MB0782.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.97.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:02:01 +0000 Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.215.148) by DM2PR0301MB1280.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.221.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:02:01 +0000 Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) by DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0026.003; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:02:01 +0000 From: Srini Addepalli To: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXQ== Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:02:00 +0000 Message-ID: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [73.162.248.85] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1280;UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1280; x-forefront-prvs: 041517DFAB x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(189002)(199003)(64706001)(97736003)(2501002)(122556002)(99396003)(40100003)(120916001)(16236675004)(68736005)(66066001)(62966003)(77156002)(450100001)(36756003)(20776003)(92726001)(229853001)(230783001)(86362001)(87936001)(2656002)(106356001)(106116001)(105586002)(99286002)(107046002)(95666004)(2351001)(117636001)(46102003)(19627405001)(110136001)(50986999)(54356999)(21056001)(92566001)(101416001)(31966008)(4396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1280; H:DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_141770531584511888freescalecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR0301MB0782; X-OriginatorOrg: freescale.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/Fu_omsOOkg4eqzSG6jUO8Ud3BhU Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:02:29 -0000 --_000_141770531584511888freescalecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two comments : 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't better to r= ename this as "TTL"? 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. Base= d on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier needs to enc= ode good amount of information to make it unique. For example, this ident= ifier needs to encode (in our case) some information representing the distr= ibuted controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, Service function instance (in = case of scale-out) and few more.. One suggestion is to make it 64 bits val= ue or to make it even extendable, it is good if path identifier is also r= epresented in TLV form. Thanks Srini --_000_141770531584511888freescalecom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Two comments :


1.  SF Index :  Since it is meant for loop detection,  wo= uldn't better to rename this as "TTL"?

2.  Path Identifier :    24 bit path identifier seems to = be too less.  Based on our experience in traffic steering,  this = path identifier needs to encode good amount of information to make it uniqu= e.  For example,  this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information representing the distributed controller ID,  t= enant ID,  flow ID,  Service function instance (in case of scale-= out) and few more..  One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value  = or to make it even extendable,  it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form.


Thanks

Srini


--_000_141770531584511888freescalecom_-- From nobody Thu Dec 4 07:18:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25CC81AD3A5 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:18:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XawLWcP-HZsW for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:18:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C13E21A011D for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:18:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6266; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1417706312; x=1418915912; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=OxIgRpmbWtIbqg6YVS/rdl34ysKsLQvORjsMHz3Iu88=; b=CZovkXi54l0qh9KLaYUwaSCG750Hm1EqgYw2fDxuIUHPD9cqLzYoufG4 99HRBHbBV0Kn5XOG4u0ZwPiiZe6v0OCSqqGgHwNb58Orl7HOHmBOe37v6 ZMlM/kHSrFsQZsAFWWz1KPmlgQoeyEOZL4N9Vv93bAEBb5pCrMyigB8b4 E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtgIAEF6gFStJV2a/2dsb2JhbABZgmQiUlgEgwHBKYIcCoYWAhyBARYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQMBAQEBIBE6CwUHBAIBCBEBAwEBAQICIwMCAgIlCxQBAgYIAQEEDgUJiCwJAQzAF5ZeAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4ErigOFBTMHBoJrM4EeBY4agXaKSoEjgy2LX4NpgjWBRG8BgUSBAAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,516,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="377899731" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Dec 2014 15:18:31 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com [173.36.12.76]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sB4FIT2T021391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:18:29 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com ([173.36.12.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 09:18:29 -0600 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Georgios Karagiannis Thread-Topic: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVwAT290AAAxhE+D//02BAIAAC9SAgABdbAA= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:18:28 +0000 Message-ID: <50E2E2DA-BB2A-409A-8E46-13DEEA0B879F@cisco.com> References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.102.156.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1151905DE09B9D4F88C25852BA9F2D6E@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/dLsdxSbQ5JNwZQvYA1BTGJFv7vo Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:18:33 -0000 SGkgR2Vvcmdpb3MsDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lLg0KDQo+IE9uIERlYyA0LCAyMDE0LCBh dCA5OjQwIEFNLCBHZW9yZ2lvcyBLYXJhZ2lhbm5pcyA8Z2Vvcmdpb3Mua2FyYWdpYW5uaXNAaHVh d2VpLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiBIaSBDYXJsb3MsDQo+IA0KPiBQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0 IEkgZG8gbm90IG1lYW4gdG8gdXNlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBTRkMgZW5jYXBzdWxhdGlvbnMgc2ltdWx0 YW5lb3VzbHkuDQo+IA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBjbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9uLg0KDQo+IEZyb20g d2hhdCBJIHVuZGVyc3Rvb2QgZnJvbSBJRVRGJzkxIG1lZXRpbmcgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMsIHRoZSBH ZW5lcmljIFNGQyBlbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uIHRlY2huaXF1ZSBoYXMgbm90IHlldCBiZWVuIHNlbGVj dGVkIGJ5IHRoZSBTRkMgV0cuDQo+IA0KPiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgdGhpcyBtZWFucyB0aGF0IHRo ZSBTRkMgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIGRyYWZ0IGNhbm5vdCBiZSBpbiBmYXZvciBmb3Igb25lIHNwZWNp ZmljIA0KPiBTRkMgZW5jYXBzdWxhdGlvbiB0ZWNobmlxdWUgYW5kIGF0IHRoZSBzYW1lIHRpbWUg 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XA4N7Ntd3xu9 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C99A1AD441 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0553240E3C; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:32:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (pool-70-106-134-188.clppva.east.verizon.net [70.106.134.188]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1253624003E; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:32:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54807E75.10706@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:32:05 -0500 From: "Joel M. Halpern" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Georgios Karagiannis References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> <50E2E2DA-BB2A-409A-8E46-13DEEA0B879F@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <50E2E2DA-BB2A-409A-8E46-13DEEA0B879F@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/YeZ3IeVhj_ZV4g7KHMtkjVRbzYg Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:32:15 -0000 To reinforce Carlos' point, the architecture document is quite careful not to specify how the required information is encoded in the header. It is up to the WG to select a single such encapsulation that meets the requirements from among the multiple choices being presented in individual drafts. Yours, Joel On 12/4/14, 10:18 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: > Hi Georgios, > > Please see inline. > >> On Dec 4, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Georgios Karagiannis wrote: >> >> Hi Carlos, >> >> Please note that I do not mean to use different SFC encapsulations simultaneously. >> > > Thanks for the clarification. > >> From what I understood from IETF'91 meeting discussions, the Generic SFC encapsulation technique has not yet been selected by the SFC WG. >> >> I think that this means that the SFC architecture draft cannot be in favor for one specific >> SFC encapsulation technique and at the same time excluding other techniques. >> > > Yes. Again, the SFC architecture document does not concern itself or take any position on any specifics for any encapsulation format. It does specify the functions that the SFC encapsulation need to fulfill. > >> My question is: >> >> Can the following two SFC encapsulation techniques be supported by the functions described in the SFC architecture draft?: >> >> o) Single Marking Code Point, like format, see section 5.1 on boucadair draft, see below. >> >> o) Explicit Route List, like format, see section 5.3 on boucadair draft, see below. >> > > I see — this is a question for draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis and not for draft-ietf-sfc-architecture. Meaning, it would be up to the proposed encapsulation to show how they realize the functions of the architecture. > > That said, I do not see an “SF Map Index” in the architecture document, for example. > > Thanks, > > Carlos. > >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt >> >> Best regards, >> Georgios >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 3:02 PM >>> To: Georgios Karagiannis >>> Cc: sfc@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of >>> SFC header formats? >>> >>> Hi, Georgios, >>> >>> Do you mean different SFC Encapsulations simultaneously? The SFC charter >>> says: >>> >>> >>> 3. Generic SFC Encapsulation: This document will describe a single >>> service-level data plane encapsulation format that: >>> >>> >>> >>> Because interoperability is the goal. >>> >>> Looking at that section, the terminology does not seem to align to the arch >>> and problem-statement documents. Also, that section seems to describe a >>> pseudo-format, not a format. The architecture describes the functions in >>> Section 4.1 and other places. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Carlos. >>> >>> On 12/4/14, 8:55 AM, "Georgios Karagiannis" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Carlos, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your answer! >>>> >>>> Does this mean that the SFC architecture is allowing the use of >>>> different Service Function Chaining Header (SFC encapsulation) formats? >>>> >>>> I am referring to the different SFC encapsulation formats that are >>>> discussed in section 5 of the following ID: >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Georgios >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 2:46 PM >>>>> To: Georgios Karagiannis >>>>> Cc: sfc@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different >>>>> types of SFC header formats? >>>>> >>>>> Hi, Georgios, >>>>> >>>>> The SFC architecture document concerns itself with the functions and >>>>> not the format. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Carlos. >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 4, 2014, at 5:17 AM, Georgios Karagiannis >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> Please note that I was reviewing the SFC architecture draft, see >>>>> below, and >>>>> I have a question: >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you please let me know if the current version of the SFC >>>>>> architecture allows the use of different Service Function Chaining >>>>> Header >>>>> formats? >>>>>> >>>>>> These formats and their analysis can be found in Section 5 of the >>>>> following >>>>> draft: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If that is not the case, please elaborate why. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Georgios >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sfc mailing list >>>>>> sfc@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Thu Dec 4 07:33:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A64911AD407 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:33:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VRiob6bFZ-c4 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:33:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 337991AD417 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:33:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMJ40513; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:33:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML516-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.78]) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:33:25 +0000 From: Georgios Karagiannis To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Thread-Topic: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVwAT290AAAxhE+D//02BAIAAC9SAgABdbACAAGNjkA== Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:33:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> <50E2E2DA-BB2A-409A-8E46-13DEEA0B879F@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <50E2E2DA-BB2A-409A-8E46-13DEEA0B879F@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.64.158] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/8RsOnoJyxi9I13GpZH7iugBu_qk Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? 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Pj4NCj4gPj4+Pj4gSWYgdGhhdCBpcyBub3QgdGhlIGNhc2UsIHBsZWFzZSBlbGFib3JhdGUgd2h5 Lg0KPiA+Pj4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4+PiBCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+ID4+Pj4+IEdlb3JnaW9zDQo+ID4+ Pj4+DQo+ID4+Pj4+DQo+ID4+Pj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ID4+Pj4+IHNmYyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPj4+Pj4gc2ZjQGlldGYu b3JnDQo+ID4+Pj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc2ZjDQo+ ID4+Pg0KPiA+DQoNCg== From nobody Thu Dec 4 07:43:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B1451AD3FF for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:43:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OH1Ak9X4pwXu for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:43:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B5FA1AD418 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:43:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A2A241077; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:43:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (pool-70-106-134-188.clppva.east.verizon.net [70.106.134.188]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CBCB8240E3C; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:43:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:42:59 -0500 From: "Joel M. Halpern" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Srini Addepalli , "sfc@ietf.org" References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> In-Reply-To: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/M7tPo3VN7XTEXI4EN-CrTSI65PE Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:43:16 -0000 The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity, the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides. There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be carried in metadata. Yours, Joel On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > Two comments : > > > 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't better > to rename this as "TTL"? > > 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. > Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier needs > to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For example, > this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information > representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, > Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. One > suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extendable, > it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. > > > Thanks > > Srini > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Thu Dec 4 07:50:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E903D1A0461 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:50:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T8NtbGf4_he2 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FB0C1AD489 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:48:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMJ41987; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:48:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML516-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.78]) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.201.5.242]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:47:31 +0000 From: Georgios Karagiannis To: "Joel M. Halpern" Thread-Topic: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVwAT290AAAxhE+D//02BAIAAC9SAgABdbAD//59EgP///lFA Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:47:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> <50E2E2DA-BB2A-409A-8E46-13DEEA0B879F@cisco.com> <54807E75.10706@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <54807E75.10706@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.64.158] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/ErZZGJ3c91NAdSV-FNy8CYIa6jo Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:50:10 -0000 SGkgSm9lbCwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIGVtYWlsIQ0KSSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRoYXQgdGhl IFNGQyBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgZHJhZnQgZG9lcyBub3Qgc3BlY2lmeSBob3cgdGhlIHJlcXVpcmVk IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGlzIGVuY29kZWQgaW4gdGhlIGhlYWRlci4NCg0KVGhlcmVmb3JlLCBJIGFt IGFsc28gYXNzdW1pbmcgdGhhdCAoMSkgdGhlIFNGQyBFbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uIGZ1bmN0aW9uIGRl c2NyaWJlZCBpbiBzZWN0aW9uIDQuMSwgKDIpIHRoZSBDbGFzc2lmaWNhdGlvbiBmdW5jdGlvbiBk ZXNjcmliZWQgaW4gc2VjdGlvbiA0LjcgYW5kICgzKSB0aGUgU2hhcmVkIE1ldGFkYXRhIGZ1bmN0 aW9uIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBpbiBTZWN0aW9uIDQuOSwgYXJlIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBpbiBzdWNoIGEgd2F5 IHRoYXQgYW55IFNGQyBlbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uIHRlY2huaXF1ZSBzaG91bGQgYmUgc3VwcG9ydGVk Lg0KDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpHZW9yZ2lvcw0KDQoNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3Nh Z2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBKb2VsIE0uIEhhbHBlcm4gW21haWx0bzpqbWhAam9lbGhhbHBlcm4u 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with ESMTP id 9CE1A1A0137 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:56:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R6B3uBipdy0n for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:56:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64AFA1AD3AD for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5B524028B; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:56:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (pool-70-106-134-188.clppva.east.verizon.net [70.106.134.188]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 30FED24003E; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 07:56:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54808433.4030509@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:56:35 -0500 From: "Joel M. Halpern" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Georgios Karagiannis References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> <50E2E2DA-BB2A-409A-8E46-13DEEA0B879F@cisco.com> <54807E75.10706@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/z4DyVgBbw8baDYSZpbrlvckeQ4Q Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:56:48 -0000 Not quite "any". The working group made some choices about behavior as part of the process. If the architecture did not make any choices, then there would be no point in having the architecture. We did not however mandate the specific encodings, and there are a fair range of possible realizations. Neither I nor Carlos attempted to review all the existing proposals to determine if as they exist they fit the architecture or if they could be adjusted to fit. That is up to the proposers. For example, I suppose that one could write a solution proposal that required co-location of certain components. But that would then be an important property of the proposal to be discussed by the WG. Yours, Joel On 12/4/14, 10:47 AM, Georgios Karagiannis wrote: > Hi Joel, > > Thanks for your email! I understand that the SFC architecture draft > does not specify how the required information is encoded in the > header. > > Therefore, I am also assuming that (1) the SFC Encapsulation function > described in section 4.1, (2) the Classification function described > in section 4.7 and (3) the Shared Metadata function described in > Section 4.9, are described in such a way that any SFC encapsulation > technique should be supported. > > Best regards, Georgios > > > >> -----Original Message----- From: Joel M. Halpern >> [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 4:32 >> PM To: Georgios Karagiannis Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] is >> current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header >> formats? >> >> To reinforce Carlos' point, the architecture document is quite >> careful not to specify how the required information is encoded in >> the header. It is up to the WG to select a single such >> encapsulation that meets the requirements from among the multiple >> choices being presented in individual drafts. >> >> Yours, Joel >> >> On 12/4/14, 10:18 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: >>> Hi Georgios, >>> >>> Please see inline. >>> >>>> On Dec 4, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Georgios Karagiannis >> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Carlos, >>>> >>>> Please note that I do not mean to use different SFC >>>> encapsulations >> simultaneously. >>>> >>> >>> Thanks for the clarification. >>> >>>> From what I understood from IETF'91 meeting discussions, the >>>> Generic SFC >> encapsulation technique has not yet been selected by the SFC WG. >>>> >>>> I think that this means that the SFC architecture draft cannot >>>> be in favor for one specific SFC encapsulation technique and at >>>> the same time >> excluding other techniques. >>>> >>> >>> Yes. Again, the SFC architecture document does not concern itself >>> or take >> any position on any specifics for any encapsulation format. It does >> specify the functions that the SFC encapsulation need to fulfill. >>> >>>> My question is: >>>> >>>> Can the following two SFC encapsulation techniques be supported >>>> by the >> functions described in the SFC architecture draft?: >>>> >>>> o) Single Marking Code Point, like format, see section 5.1 on >>>> boucadair >> draft, see below. >>>> >>>> o) Explicit Route List, like format, see section 5.3 on >>>> boucadair draft, >> see below. >>>> >>> >>> I see — this is a question for >>> draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis and not >> for draft-ietf-sfc-architecture. Meaning, it would be up to the >> proposed encapsulation to show how they realize the functions of >> the architecture. >>> >>> That said, I do not see an “SF Map Index” in the architecture >>> document, for >> example. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Carlos. >>> >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Georgios >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) >>>>> [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 >>>>> 3:02 PM To: Georgios Karagiannis Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: >>>>> Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different >>>>> types of SFC header formats? >>>>> >>>>> Hi, Georgios, >>>>> >>>>> Do you mean different SFC Encapsulations simultaneously? The >>>>> SFC charter says: >>>>> >>>>> 3. Generic SFC Encapsulation: This document will >>>>> describe a single service-level data plane encapsulation >>>>> format that: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Because interoperability is the goal. >>>>> >>>>> Looking at that section, the terminology does not seem to >>>>> align to the arch and problem-statement documents. Also, that >>>>> section seems to describe a pseudo-format, not a format. The >>>>> architecture describes the functions in Section 4.1 and other >>>>> places. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Carlos. >>>>> >>>>> On 12/4/14, 8:55 AM, "Georgios Karagiannis" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Carlos, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for your answer! >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this mean that the SFC architecture is allowing the >>>>>> use of different Service Function Chaining Header (SFC >>>>>> encapsulation) formats? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am referring to the different SFC encapsulation formats >>>>>> that are discussed in section 5 of the following ID: >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Georgios >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Pignataro >>>>>>> (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, >>>>>>> December 04, 2014 2:46 PM To: Georgios Karagiannis Cc: >>>>>>> sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC >>>>>>> architecture supporting different types of SFC header >>>>>>> formats? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Georgios, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The SFC architecture document concerns itself with the >>>>>>> functions and not the format. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Carlos. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Dec 4, 2014, at 5:17 AM, Georgios Karagiannis >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please note that I was reviewing the SFC architecture >>>>>>>> draft, see >>>>>>> below, and I have a question: >>>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you please let me know if the current version of the SFC >>>>>>>> architecture allows the use of different Service >>>>>>>> Function Chaining >>>>>>> Header formats? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> These formats and their analysis can be found in >>>>>>>> Section 5 of the >>>>>>> following draft: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-boucadair-sfc-design-analysis-03.txt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If that is not the case, please elaborate why. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, Georgios >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ sfc >>>>>>>> mailing list sfc@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list >>> sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>> From nobody Thu Dec 4 08:10:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC471AD460 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:10:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eFp5eYi7kHHr for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09E911AD495 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:10:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9200; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1417709410; x=1418919010; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=1bJmt2r9IpQBvmtkr0ykeDo9K3jE0djIf+xMUytzsRI=; b=DWd7/wl6EtFtwuufxuBCijN0unoUYv2f41IGV3j/ro+EeqnCe2+FYrG5 F2CdvVAstmXZ4DJPO7X38X9MBjD9s+KaAaTz1vce5hmeUY1QOZz747/+u 6YcJO18oNwLFaQn4tZ3H7qX6E07i7TdGmusHUR7dhz2tbB7dRRFw3R9by 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtgIACuHgFStJV2P/2dsb2JhbABPCoJkIlJYBIMBwSqCHAqGFgIcgQEWAQEBAQF9hAIBAQEDAQEBASAROgsFBwQCAQgRAQMBAQECAiMDAgICJQsUAQIGCAIEDgUJiCwJAQzAH5ZfAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4ErigOEXCkzBwaCazOBHgWOGoF2ikqBI4Mti1+DaYI1gURvAYFEgQABAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,516,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="377915730" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Dec 2014 16:10:09 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com [173.36.12.89]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sB4GA9he000710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Dec 2014 16:10:09 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com ([173.36.12.89]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 10:10:08 -0600 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Georgios Karagiannis Thread-Topic: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVwAT290AAAxhE+D//02BAIAAC9SAgABdbACAAGNjkP//qwuA Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 16:10:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> <50E2E2DA-BB2A-409A-8E46-13DEEA0B879F@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.102.156.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <47DA2AA94CFA25499F98718F807D0BCF@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NqsbkDFr_U13elrh9AC7KmqH3zs Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? 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ZWdhcmRzLA0KPj4+Pj4+PiBHZW9yZ2lvcw0KPj4+Pj4+PiANCj4+Pj4+Pj4gDQo+Pj4+Pj4+IF9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+Pj4+Pj4+IHNm YyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+Pj4+Pj4gc2ZjQGlldGYub3JnDQo+Pj4+Pj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc2ZjDQo+Pj4+PiANCj4+PiANCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Dec 4 08:16:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38D81A1BA3 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:16:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X73GAeaYJmgX for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:16:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 852F11AD48E for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com ([fe80::68ac:f071:19ff:3455]) by wtl-exchp-1.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 11:16:15 -0500 From: Dave Dolson To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Srini Addepalli , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/5iSA//+0YEc= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 16:16:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com>, <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.251.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sQtwClEJIQYCb2YfrFfwNupM14E Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:16:21 -0000 Joel,=0A= =0A= > While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the architecture still does = not treat the path ID as a tenant ID.=0A= =0A= Is this spelled out in draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02? =0A= I might have glossed over it, but searching reveals no mention of the word = "tenant".=0A= =0A= I'd been thinking the ability to attach a tenant to a path ID was a point o= f configuration within an SF.=0A= =0A= One reason I ask is that metadata probably wouldn't be sent to so-called "l= egacy SF".=0A= =0A= -Dave=0A= =0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Joel M. Halpern [jmh@joelhalp= ern.com]=0A= Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 10:42 AM=0A= To: Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org=0A= Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com=0A= Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02)=0A= =0A= The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity,=0A= the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides.=0A= There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur.=0A= =0A= The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller=0A= ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the=0A= architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant=0A= ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be=0A= carried in metadata.=0A= =0A= Yours,=0A= Joel=0A= =0A= On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote:=0A= > Two comments :=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't better=0A= > to rename this as "TTL"?=0A= >=0A= > 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less.=0A= > Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier needs= =0A= > to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For example,=0A= > this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information=0A= > representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID,=0A= > Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. One=0A= > suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extendable,=0A= > it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form.=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > Thanks=0A= >=0A= > Srini=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > _______________________________________________=0A= > sfc mailing list=0A= > sfc@ietf.org=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc=0A= >=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= sfc mailing list=0A= sfc@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc=0A= From nobody Thu Dec 4 08:18:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B42B1AD463 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:18:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iKdcdfVOgt7H for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:18:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 649F51A1B9E for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMJ44752; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:18:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML516-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.78]) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 16:17:28 +0000 From: Georgios Karagiannis To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Thread-Topic: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? Thread-Index: AdAPq35dh1W/iINPRT2JdHnL8IYwVwAT290AAAxhE+D//02BAIAAC9SAgABdbACAAGNjkP//qwuAgABjpVA= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 16:17:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4D83F738-BF44-4A85-8849-D300A2F207F7@cisco.com> <50E2E2DA-BB2A-409A-8E46-13DEEA0B879F@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.64.158] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/fIv69-7BHZwo9P8ZpOsdMUeJ_qQ Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] is current SFC architecture supporting different types of SFC header formats? X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:18:07 -0000 SGkgQ2FybG9zLCBIaSBKb2VsLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBjbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9ucyEgDQoN ClRoaXMgbWVhbnMgdGhhdCBzb21lIHNlbGVjdGlvbiBzdGVwcyBmb3IgY2hvb3NpbmcgdGhlIGNh bmRpZGF0ZSBTRkMgZW5jYXBzdWxhdGlvbiANCmhhdmUgYmVlbiBhbHJlYWR5IHRha2VuLg0KDQpC ZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpHZW9yZ2lvcw0KDQoNCg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t LS0tDQo+IEZyb206IENhcmxvcyBQaWduYXRhcm8gKGNwaWduYXRhKSBbbWFpbHRvOmNwaWduYXRh QGNpc2NvLmNvbV0NCj4gU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIERlY2VtYmVyIDA0LCAyMDE0IDU6MTAgUE0N Cj4gVG86IEdlb3JnaW9zIEthcmFnaWFubmlzDQo+IENjOiBzZmNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVj dDogUmU6IFtzZmNdIGlzIGN1cnJlbnQgU0ZDIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSBzdXBwb3J0aW5nIGRpZmZl cmVudCB0eXBlcyBvZg0KPiBTRkMgaGVhZGVyIGZvcm1hdHM/DQo+IA0KPiBHZW9yZ2lvcywNCj4g DQo+ID4gT24gRGVjIDQsIDIwMTQsIGF0IDEwOjMzIEFNLCBHZW9yZ2lvcyBLYXJhZ2lhbm5pcw0K 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Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2lkL2RyYWZ0LWJvdWNhZGFpci1zZmMtZGVzaWduLWFuYWx5c2lzLTAz LnR4DQo+ID4+Pj4+Pj4gdA0KPiA+Pj4+Pj4+DQo+ID4+Pj4+Pj4NCj4gPj4+Pj4+PiBJZiB0aGF0 IGlzIG5vdCB0aGUgY2FzZSwgcGxlYXNlIGVsYWJvcmF0ZSB3aHkuDQo+ID4+Pj4+Pj4NCj4gPj4+ Pj4+PiBCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+ID4+Pj4+Pj4gR2Vvcmdpb3MNCj4gPj4+Pj4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4+ Pj4+DQo+ID4+Pj4+Pj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18NCj4gPj4+Pj4+PiBzZmMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4+Pj4+Pj4gc2ZjQGlldGYub3Jn DQo+ID4+Pj4+Pj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zZmMNCj4g Pj4+Pj4NCj4gPj4+DQo+ID4NCg0K From nobody Thu Dec 4 08:20:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8D01AD465 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:20:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 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ESMTPSA id 55A682405BF; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:20:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <548089C3.6040802@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 11:20:19 -0500 From: "Joel M. Halpern" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Dolson , Srini Addepalli , "sfc@ietf.org" References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com>, <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/hFwhfuFC2HtLrJcheAu86PUP5jk Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:20:30 -0000 The ability to cause a tenants traffic to use a particular (single or set of) service path(s) is there. That has nothing to do with whether the path identifier can be treated by the SFs as a tenant ID. Unless you couple the SF behavior to specific deployment and specific implementations (which is not the point of a standard) the WFs can not treat the Path ID as a tenant ID. I don't see what this has to do with legacy support, since a legacy SF won't get the path ID or the metadata. It will be the proxy's job to determine how to render any needed identification to the legacy (and it will likely be different for different legacy SF implementations.) Yours, Joel On 12/4/14, 11:16 AM, Dave Dolson wrote: > Joel, > >> While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. > > Is this spelled out in draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02? > I might have glossed over it, but searching reveals no mention of the word "tenant". > > I'd been thinking the ability to attach a tenant to a path ID was a point of configuration within an SF. > > One reason I ask is that metadata probably wouldn't be sent to so-called "legacy SF". > > -Dave > > > ________________________________________ > From: sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Joel M. Halpern [jmh@joelhalpern.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 10:42 AM > To: Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org > Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com > Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > > The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity, > the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides. > There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. > > The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller > ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the > architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant > ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be > carried in metadata. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >> Two comments : >> >> >> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't better >> to rename this as "TTL"? >> >> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. >> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier needs >> to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For example, >> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information >> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, >> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. One >> suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extendable, >> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Srini >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Thu Dec 4 11:02:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 852451A006B for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 11:02:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4HYwtHlc2oDI for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 11:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0758.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:758]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D64081A0062 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 11:02:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from DM2PR0301MB1277.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.221.146) by DM2PR0301MB0766.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.97.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 19:02:01 +0000 Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.215.148) by DM2PR0301MB1277.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.221.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 19:01:59 +0000 Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) by DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0026.003; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 19:01:59 +0000 From: Srini Addepalli To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/klKAgAA1pTE= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 19:01:57 +0000 Message-ID: <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com>, <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [73.162.248.85] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1277;UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1277; x-forefront-prvs: 041517DFAB x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(377454003)(199003)(479174003)(51704005)(24454002)(189002)(230783001)(2501002)(117636001)(99286002)(107046002)(105586002)(106116001)(106356001)(77156002)(62966003)(4396001)(21056001)(15975445007)(102836002)(36756003)(122556002)(40100003)(97736003)(46102003)(68736005)(31966008)(101416001)(19580395003)(19580405001)(20776003)(99396003)(66066001)(64706001)(87936001)(2656002)(50986999)(76176999)(86362001)(54356999)(92566001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1277; H:DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR0301MB0766; X-OriginatorOrg: freescale.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/M0AzS0N5RAk4FLbFo-7g4bs_M0M Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 19:02:27 -0000 =0A= I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to tenan= t/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these in mind= to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple tenants, each ten= ant can have multiple networks, there could be millions of flows in each o= f those networks. And considering all these, 24 bit path ID may not be ab= le to represent paths for these flows. Hence, I was wondering whether path= ID can be extended to 64 bits or make it flexible.=0A= =0A= Thanks=0A= Srini=0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: Joel M. Halpern =0A= Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM=0A= To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org=0A= Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840=0A= Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02)=0A= =0A= The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity,=0A= the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides.=0A= There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur.=0A= =0A= The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller=0A= ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the=0A= architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant=0A= ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be=0A= carried in metadata.=0A= =0A= Yours,=0A= Joel=0A= =0A= On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote:=0A= > Two comments :=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't better=0A= > to rename this as "TTL"?=0A= >=0A= > 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less.=0A= > Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier needs= =0A= > to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For example,=0A= > this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information=0A= > representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID,=0A= > Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. One=0A= > suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extendable,=0A= > it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form.=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > Thanks=0A= >=0A= > Srini=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > _______________________________________________=0A= > sfc mailing list=0A= > sfc@ietf.org=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc=0A= >=0A= From nobody Thu Dec 4 12:04:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 171DD1A0392 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:04:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4WDrSYiXvJGz for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:04:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0C4C1A1A82 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:04:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCA624003E; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:04:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (pool-70-106-134-188.clppva.east.verizon.net [70.106.134.188]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4F9E8240FA5; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:04:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:04:30 -0500 From: "Joel M. Halpern" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Srini Addepalli , "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com>, <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> In-Reply-To: <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/E0V2hHEHmYAznEIKdXeOvDZgza0 Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 20:04:50 -0000 A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such concerns. But the number of service function paths is not related to the number of flows or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of combinations of services and the policies for service function selection. While that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to saturating 24 bits. Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then we ought to use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be more than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said that, the field size is not a big deal to me. Yours, Joel On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > > I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these in mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple tenants, each tenant can have multiple networks, there could be millions of flows in each of those networks. And considering all these, 24 bit path ID may not be able to represent paths for these flows. Hence, I was wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or make it flexible. > > Thanks > Srini > > ________________________________________ > From: Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM > To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org > Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 > Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > > The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity, > the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides. > There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. > > The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller > ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the > architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant > ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be > carried in metadata. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >> Two comments : >> >> >> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't better >> to rename this as "TTL"? >> >> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. >> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier needs >> to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For example, >> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information >> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, >> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. One >> suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extendable, >> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Srini >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> From nobody Thu Dec 4 12:30:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 628151A1B1E for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:30:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sfZknj6rgsS5 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:29:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub021-ca-6.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-6.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.56.71]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7AFF1A1B16 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:29:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-6.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.92]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:29:56 -0800 From: Ron Parker To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Dave Dolson , Srini Addepalli , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9kHFOTKJIie6ES015pmlGgJ3ZyAIauAgAABI4D//75W4A== Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 20:29:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com>, <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <548089C3.6040802@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <548089C3.6040802@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [50.203.66.100] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/2TG8SIML5qx4Eq3-O0O5DRHGbno Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 20:30:01 -0000 While this is subtle, I agree with Joel. Policy may be that a particular = path ID is used on behalf of a single "tenant", but path ID isn't intended = to directly convey the identity of the tenant in any meaningful manner. F= or that, metadata is perfectly suited. In the SCH draft, there are 2 appr= oaches to identifying the metadata type that conveys the tenant id. In th= e first, an IANA registration may be made to globally define the TLV ID, ty= pe, and length. In the second, a vendor OUI may be used to convey the ass= igning authority. Ron -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 11:20 AM To: Dave Dolson; Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) The ability to cause a tenants traffic to use a particular (single or set o= f) service path(s) is there. That has nothing to do with whether the path = identifier can be treated by the SFs as a tenant ID. Unless you couple the= SF behavior to specific deployment and specific implementations (which is = not the point of a standard) the WFs can not treat the Path ID as a tenant = ID. I don't see what this has to do with legacy support, since a legacy SF won'= t get the path ID or the metadata. It will be the proxy's job to determine= how to render any needed identification to the legacy (and it will likely = be different for different legacy SF implementations.) Yours, Joel On 12/4/14, 11:16 AM, Dave Dolson wrote: > Joel, > >> While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the architecture still does= not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. > > Is this spelled out in draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02? > I might have glossed over it, but searching reveals no mention of the wor= d "tenant". > > I'd been thinking the ability to attach a tenant to a path ID was a point= of configuration within an SF. > > One reason I ask is that metadata probably wouldn't be sent to so-called = "legacy SF". > > -Dave > > > ________________________________________ > From: sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Joel M. Halpern=20 > [jmh@joelhalpern.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 10:42 AM > To: Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org > Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com > Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft=20 > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > > The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity,=20 > the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides. > There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. > > The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller=20 > ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the=20 > architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant=20 > ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be=20 > carried in metadata. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >> Two comments : >> >> >> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't=20 >> better to rename this as "TTL"? >> >> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. >> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier=20 >> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For examp= le, >> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information=20 >> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, >> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. =20 >> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extendabl= e, >> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Srini >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Thu Dec 4 12:57:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 066951A038E for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:57:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PgZQjT0JDdje for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:57:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0113.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.113]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC59D1A0264 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 12:57:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.215.148) by DM2PR0301MB1278.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.221.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 20:57:15 +0000 Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) by DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0026.003; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 20:57:15 +0000 From: Srini Addepalli To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/klKAgAA1pTGAABNtAIAADGxA Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 20:57:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com>, <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.88.158.1] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1278; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1278; x-forefront-prvs: 041517DFAB x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(189002)(199003)(377454003)(479174003)(51704005)(13464003)(24454002)(19580395003)(31966008)(101416001)(33656002)(54206007)(19580405001)(68736005)(76176999)(54356999)(86362001)(50986999)(87936001)(54606007)(2656002)(92566001)(99396003)(64706001)(20776003)(66066001)(62966003)(77156002)(230783001)(2501002)(105586002)(106356001)(106116001)(99286002)(107046002)(97736003)(46102003)(21056001)(4396001)(74316001)(76576001)(122556002)(40100003)(102836002)(15975445007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1278; H:DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: freescale.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/p2rTYeDDurka4Ml7QYOM93SWlNU Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 20:57:19 -0000 If I take a chain with 5 services with each service say having 256 instanc= es for scale-out, possible number of paths are 256*256*256*256*256 =3D 0xFF= FF FF FF FF. One requires 33 bits in this case. If there are more service= s in the chain or more chains or more instances for scale-out, then it cou= ld go to big number very fast. As I mentioned my preference is to make the path ID size flexible for futur= e growth. If that is perceived as complex, then going for 64bit is safer be= t. Thanks Srini -----Original Message----- From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 12:05 PM To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such conce= rns. But the number of service function paths is not related to the number of fl= ows or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of combinations = of services and the policies for service function selection. While that ca= n be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to saturating 24 bi= ts. Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then we oug= ht to use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be more= than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said that,= the field size is not a big deal to me. Yours, Joel On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > > I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to ten= ant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these in mi= nd to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple tenants, each t= enant can have multiple networks, there could be millions of flows in each= of those networks. And considering all these, 24 bit path ID may not be = able to represent paths for these flows. Hence, I was wondering whether pa= th ID can be extended to 64 bits or make it flexible. > > Thanks > Srini > > ________________________________________ > From: Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM > To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org > Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 > Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft=20 > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > > The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity,=20 > the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides. > There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. > > The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller=20 > ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the=20 > architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant=20 > ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be=20 > carried in metadata. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >> Two comments : >> >> >> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't=20 >> better to rename this as "TTL"? >> >> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. >> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier=20 >> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For examp= le, >> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information=20 >> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, >> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. =20 >> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extendabl= e, >> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Srini >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> From nobody Thu Dec 4 13:18:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FAB1A1BFE for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 13:18:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BsgwY36So8nT for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 13:18:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DE551A1F04 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 13:17:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5028; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1417727841; x=1418937441; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=o8SMKIp5Ma/cZnbpZ0ZMf7EsdnkHr+PKHqMgaydfryE=; b=LpGDndlbSDRy0A/heMTwKSA06ees5w2V4zFnakJ5SJuMbu40UA7UNda9 5eryXIdUnZqzzo7F7YeKvdBVlqwesU6B72KUzIalnbC2iV1uDpkZy42ZS Bl10Lqf9VUtMrK/sCGz48eC5YMs3qxpjfYGkKNmub8kunXTMmwC1/1IEa Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aj0FAPHNgFStJA2D/2dsb2JhbABZgwZSWATGRgqGFgKBIhYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQQBAQFkBwsMBAIBCA4DAQMBAQEnBycLFAMGCAIEAQ0FiD4N1xoBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBJAzMwcGhDwFiiKFboQWhjSUGII1gURvgUWBAAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,518,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="377672275" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Dec 2014 21:17:20 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com [173.37.183.81]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sB4LHK06000731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Dec 2014 21:17:20 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.8.11]) by xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([173.37.183.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:17:20 -0600 From: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" To: Srini Addepalli , "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/klKAgAA1pTGAAHgCAIAADr2A//9/fgA= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 21:17:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.5.141003 x-originating-ip: [10.24.4.246] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <3AE55649E2314E4F8B8BBDBD48C197B4@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/uBSiKHCXmrkDPLzGtyFiGXS5v8Y Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 21:18:09 -0000 If I understood you, I do not think this is realistic. Are you saying you need 64-bits of paths and then will monitor them all? Do fault tolerance and OAM for 2^64-bits worth of paths? Just for comparison, it=B9s like managing and monitoring the entire IPv6 host range, one-by-one. Anyway, I do not expect every single permutations to be a different path. If each service has 256 devices providing similar service, you should most likely use load-balancing and then you would have a single (or a few) paths. There is some discussion going on LB. >From a data plane perspective, the path is ultimately defined by the SFFs traversed and services provided, not by a specific IP:port that the device providing the service sits on. Well, at least from a GPE+NSH perspective. On 12/4/14, 12:57 PM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote: >If I take a chain with 5 services with each service say having 256 >instances for scale-out, possible number of paths are 256*256*256*256*256 >=3D 0xFF FF FF FF FF. One requires 33 bits in this case. If there are mor= e >services in the chain or more chains or more instances for scale-out, >then it could go to big number very fast. > >As I mentioned my preference is to make the path ID size flexible for >future growth. If that is perceived as complex, then going for 64bit is >safer bet. > >Thanks >Srini > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 12:05 PM >To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org >Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > >A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such >concerns. >But the number of service function paths is not related to the number of >flows or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of >combinations of services and the policies for service function selection. > While that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to >saturating 24 bits. > >Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then we >ought to use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be >more than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said >that, the field size is not a big deal to me. > >Yours, >Joel > >On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >> >> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to >>tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these >>in mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple >>tenants, each tenant can have multiple networks, there could be >>millions of flows in each of those networks. And considering all these, >> 24 bit path ID may not be able to represent paths for these flows. >>Hence, I was wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or >>make it flexible. >> >> Thanks >> Srini >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: Joel M. Halpern >> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM >> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org >> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) >> >> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity, >> the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides. >> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. >> >> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller >> ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the >> architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant >> ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be >> carried in metadata. >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >>> Two comments : >>> >>> >>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't >>> better to rename this as "TTL"? >>> >>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. >>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier >>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For >>>example, >>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information >>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, >>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. >>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even >>>extendable, >>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Srini >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sfc mailing list >>> sfc@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>> > >_______________________________________________ >sfc mailing list >sfc@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Thu Dec 4 16:30:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B53B1A8850 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 16:30:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AgEfGid2Yg5e for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 16:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x233.google.com (mail-pd0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B7891A883E for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 16:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id w10so18820452pde.38 for ; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:30:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=wne/nKXm2mJkR52PYqVXcxNSQTrdYaCuRkufhaguJak=; b=BClqv2Cwyi22eK+K0dpPOB9cauUOl84XTrEkCXkVYfxtqPsiNaJY0q5K3tV9sVuzGQ UX91YHl60Hjd/AKgBGMpX3i2bVdJcEfRQfhp8k1WtGS716TvwvFCkX7q9yM4L9AbKxhc H8XcpwS3jfFWpSOY1QYMsC1p2iCIns6p5pSXnQEvBDvr46Z9qn7NveRcHj5on224mNTR 0zi6+mai3OFlVEl5HjeFD2RYRwRwLTwLnhMrlOhbeZPIuWij2uLBxkjcwMVaj6lv5JUo QE/Pv630RC84eKfRyEas8Zi9zPsi+7sLdi6gmcCn1yHkSO6P4NnWrKKooH7n09EXM0Ig B//A== X-Received: by 10.68.136.99 with SMTP id pz3mr8132446pbb.120.1417739401942; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.8] (c-98-248-50-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [98.248.50.149]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id o17sm27237126pdn.33.2014.12.04.16.30.00 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:30:00 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Sharon X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B435) In-Reply-To: <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 16:29:59 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5E72791D-CEB5-4BC1-8F73-37F323EC94B6@gmail.com> References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> To: "Joel M. Halpern" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/8uG6teHwGrQFxYscQFAv9l8toJQ Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" , Srini Addepalli , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 00:30:05 -0000 That's correct. If we take load balancing out of (the base of) the permutation equation - which would be a great .. then 24 bits is equivalent to yes/no for 24 functions.=20 Enough today but given good standard sfc solution the a trend of "everything= is a middle box" can push this limit.=20 --szb > On Dec 4, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >=20 > A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such conc= erns. > But the number of service function paths is not related to the number of f= lows or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of combinations o= f services and the policies for service function selection. While that can b= e a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to saturating 24 bits. >=20 > Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then we ou= ght to use 32. =46rom where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be mo= re than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said that= , the field size is not a big deal to me. >=20 > Yours, > Joel >=20 >> On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >>=20 >> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to ten= ant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these in min= d to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple tenants, each ten= ant can have multiple networks, there could be millions of flows in each of= those networks. And considering all these, 24 bit path ID may not be able= to represent paths for these flows. Hence, I was wondering whether path ID= can be extended to 64 bits or make it flexible. >>=20 >> Thanks >> Srini >>=20 >> ________________________________________ >> From: Joel M. Halpern >> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM >> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org >> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra= ft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) >>=20 >> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity, >> the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides. >> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. >>=20 >> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller >> ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the >> architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant >> ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be >> carried in metadata. >>=20 >> Yours, >> Joel >>=20 >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >>> Two comments : >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't better >>> to rename this as "TTL"? >>>=20 >>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. >>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier needs= >>> to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For example, >>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information >>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, >>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. One >>> suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extendable, >>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks >>>=20 >>> Srini >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sfc mailing list >>> sfc@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Thu Dec 4 17:54:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10271A8AF2 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 17:54:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cx4tvKbYDNck for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 17:54:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 802AC1A8AEC for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 17:54:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BPO99651; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 01:54:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.32) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 01:54:10 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.22]) by nkgeml401-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 09:54:04 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Sharon , "Joel M. Halpern" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/DDaAgAA3l4CAABF6AIAASi2AgACbrsA= Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 01:54:04 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082DCC50@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> <5E72791D-CEB5-4BC1-8F73-37F323EC94B6@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5E72791D-CEB5-4BC1-8F73-37F323EC94B6@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/_TtZ7aqK75fmD1cjhA3tvOcV6To Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" , Srini Addepalli , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 01:54:16 -0000 Since the path-id-based SFC approach requires SFFs to maintain path states,= if the total number of paths within an SFC domain is very large, it'd bett= er for us to consider how to replace stateful SFC approaches with stateless= SFC approaches, just as what SPRING and BIER have done for MPLS-TE and mul= ticast services. Best regards, Xiaohu > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sharon > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 8:30 AM > To: Joel M. Halpern > Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) >=20 > That's correct. >=20 > If we take load balancing out of (the base of) the permutation equation = - which > would be a great .. > then 24 bits is equivalent to yes/no for 24 functions. >=20 > Enough today but given good standard sfc solution the a trend of "everyth= ing is > a middle box" can push this limit. >=20 > --szb >=20 > > On Dec 4, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > > > A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such c= oncerns. > > But the number of service function paths is not related to the number o= f flows > or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of combinations of > services and the policies for service function selection. While that can= be a > large number, I sure hope it does not come close to saturating 24 bits. > > > > Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then we= ought to > use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be more tha= n > sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said that, the= field > size is not a big deal to me. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > >> On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > >> > >> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to > tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these = in > mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple tenants, ea= ch > tenant can have multiple networks, there could be millions of flows in e= ach of > those networks. And considering all these, 24 bit path ID may not be ab= le to > represent paths for these flows. Hence, I was wondering whether path ID = can > be extended to 64 bits or make it flexible. > >> > >> Thanks > >> Srini > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Joel M. Halpern > >> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM > >> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org > >> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 > >> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft > >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > >> > >> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity, > >> the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides= . > >> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. > >> > >> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include > >> controller ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per > >> tenant, the architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant > >> ID. Tenant ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying > >> information is to be carried in metadata. > >> > >> Yours, > >> Joel > >> > >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > >>> Two comments : > >>> > >>> > >>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't > >>> better to rename this as "TTL"? > >>> > >>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. > >>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier > >>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For > example, > >>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information > >>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, > >>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. > >>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extend= able, > >>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> > >>> Srini > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> sfc mailing list > >>> sfc@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Thu Dec 4 23:20:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A2C1AC439 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 23:20:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UH0nIqXtpCgn for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 23:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x22b.google.com (mail-pd0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7A371AC431 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 23:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f171.google.com with SMTP id y13so153966pdi.30 for ; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 23:20:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=L0qsK1TfMtf6dA0Bi+OeIMi/J3wMTE32KS3FL+XMjMs=; b=mLXR0C3qQRsb/94vEAQlf9Kz2zA301BltEVqEqJXf8ls2B01ulrQ9eiKuNmJHXqePR wsk3F49WmY+hxTj7M5BF9QLrYhbPXJwShCMCixU0EfQzVF8EVfVvMASl9gF5iXySJ2ar m9widxemKIB5BB90j94wchflzLgSBu/PzF5i61yDwFlzRrFvdThrJ5rECT6ZYwkyByW0 foRTo2KgdlI67c7h8ecAc3yWlxOwhhjloiZEYWx2EyDh0RGSQt75Z5/9HNZFhFlEbclS 1soXyRonB08JBrTEZNBXMhoXmy+1eGGcjg5wrnUzC3t7YayZtbBIu29aqf1HqGdsyRTY Os7A== X-Received: by 10.66.227.41 with SMTP id rx9mr21756112pac.153.1417764047976; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 23:20:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (c-107-3-154-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [107.3.154.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ny10sm3849568pdb.21.2014.12.04.23.20.46 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 04 Dec 2014 23:20:47 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C95EC9FA-8658-4709-B9D7-A56234F70B8F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Sam Aldrin In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 23:20:45 -0800 Message-Id: <7B84B899-F89E-48DC-B52B-8AB18C6990FA@gmail.com> References: <1E3E07F1-784C-4007-81DE-064AA6980855@gmail.com> To: David Allan I X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/T61c1HOBJNVZM-3u3sf3stUJh0o Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] OAM discussion.... X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 07:20:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C95EC9FA-8658-4709-B9D7-A56234F70B8F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Dave, Thanks. Response inline with %sam. > On Dec 3, 2014, at 10:46 AM, David Allan I = wrote: >=20 > HI Sam: > =20 > You wrote=E2=80=A6. > Thanks for your comments, both at the mic and recap via email. Sorry = for the delay in responding to your email. Please find responses inline. > =20 > Thanks for the reply, comments in line > =20 > A recap of my comments stated and unstated at the mike=E2=80=A6.. > =20 > 1) We need to sort out and document the difference between what = can be achieved by explicit protocol design, and what requires = impersonation of application traffic by a =E2=80=9Cgolden customer=E2=80=9D= or similar concept. The latter requiring some larger wrapper that = encapsulates the SFC infrastructure and can inject and measure non-OAM = application impersonating traffic. > There are two aspects, w.r.t. SFC. > 1. Describing the SFC OAM framework aspects and requirements and > 2. (to your point), what should/could be achieved by explicit protocol = design.=20 > =20 > Whether one could achieve with actual traffic or synthetic traffic = will be part of the solution and this document is not proscribing it. > This is one aspect, we as a WG should ensure the SFC architecture and = protocol design work is coherent with SFC OAM requirements. Agree to = your concern and we do understand the implications with mimicing traffic = to test SF. > =20 > My concern is ensuring the requirements are realistic. And as a = framework, I would presume the overall solution space would need to be = explored to some degree.=20 %sam - Will try to improve upon text in the next version. Would welcome = any suggested text to refine the draft. > =20 > IMO there is nothing about an SF can be usefully tested by a specific = OAM protocol as it will not fate share with any aspect of the function = as the SF will be application specific and the OAM won=E2=80=99t be. So = there is no point in trying/pretending. IMO a specific OAM protocol = should be able to verify the service graph for a given SFP and that is = about it, and we should focus on what aspects of the infrastructure that = can be tested via explicit protocol design. IMO that would be limited to = aspects of path configuration and fault management. Performance = measurement being impossible. > =20 > I do hope the document is not creating any incorrect presumption of = what SFC OAM is pretending to be. If so, we welcome suggestion for = changes and will be happy to accommodate it. As presented at IETF, SFC = OAM only care whether SF is =E2=80=98up' or not. > =20 > At this point I=E2=80=99m not sure that without synthetic traffic, any = representation as to the state of an SF can be made. Any OAM specific = protocol can only detect gross defects and (for example) trace SFF hops = in any path that does not modify the SFP information (else all bets are = off). I may agree, but may not 100%, reason being, the SFC protocol itself is = not defined, yet. If there are mechanisms available within the header or = metadata or something else, SFC OAM could leverage that. > =20 > Any synthetic traffic may require a complex and =E2=80=9CSF-unique=E2=80= =9D series of steps to verify SF function, to the point where other than = being an =E2=80=9Con-demand=E2=80=9D tool, it may not be practical in a = production environment. (which gets to my comment on availability = measurements). On-demand is part of the SFC OAM tool set. One could model the solution = along the lines of how MPLS OAM on-demand tooling did. Other than that, I agree that it is complex. If it is that simple, we = could have created solution before the problem itself :D > =20 > 2) As for the Golden Customer concept, Luca raised a good point = that such traffic should not be able to leak into the larger network. = MPLS OAM uses the 127/8 prefix to do this. So solutions exist. > =20 > This is fundamental design of all OAM protocols within IETF and SFC = OAM doesn=E2=80=99t change the definition either. Intact, MPLS OAM uses = lot more, not just local host address, so as not to leak beyond the = boundary. VCCV is also another example. > Agreed=E2=80=A6 > =20 > 3) The language needs a bit of work. At first I found it = incomprehensible, primary because of the abuse of the term = =E2=80=9Cavailability=E2=80=9D. To an OAM guy, availability is a = =E2=80=9Cmetric=E2=80=9D (e.g. 99.993% uptime), and not a =E2=80=9Cstate=E2= =80=9D. Reading the document suggests that =E2=80=9Cavailability=E2=80=9D = is really referring to a =E2=80=9Cstate=E2=80=9D.=20 > =20 > Nod. Will definitely confirm to the RFC7276, which specifies the OAM = terminology, in the next version. > OK, great. > =20 > That being said I highly suspect that it will provide impossible to = define an availability metric or set of metrics for a service function = path (purpose being customer facing) or an individual service function = (purpose being supplier auditing) although I could see a business = rationale for trying ;-)=E2=80=A6=20 > =20 > 4) What we could consider would be a framework whereby vendors = could offer test scripts for the =E2=80=9Cgolden customer=E2=80=9D = (treating the chain as a black box DUT) IF the group believes such = functionality is ultimately required. I=E2=80=99m not sure we would = really want to standardize this vs. simply suggest the possibility and = leave it to SF providers to sort out. > =20 > If it requires interoperability across vendor land, definitely worth = deliberating. If not, we could leave it to =E2=80=98winter vendor land = :D > =20 > I=E2=80=99m not sure interoperability is the correct term, =E2=80=A6. = A multi-vendor environment would place the onus on verifying system = integrity on the deploying entity, and thus would likely benefit from = some kind of agreed scripting language/model (oh dear, here we go=E2=80=A6= ..), but then existing test sets are probably capable of this such that = the SFC operator may simply dictate the requirement to their suppliers = (I=E2=80=99ve insufficient knowledge to authoritatively comment). =46rom SFC perspective, the chain has to be verified and validated. This = document may not be able to mandate any to SF as such. One thing we = could do is to document the text on what could help SFC operators in = order to ensure the chained services perform as configured. The only = concern I have in that case is, where to draw the line. Hope we could = get some input from WG as well. -sam > =20 > BR Dave --Apple-Mail=_C95EC9FA-8658-4709-B9D7-A56234F70B8F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Dave,

Thanks.
Response inline with %sam.
On = Dec 3, 2014, at 10:46 AM, David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com> wrote:

HI Sam:
 
You wrote=E2=80=A6.
Thanks= for your comments, both at the mic and recap via email. Sorry for the = delay in responding to your email. Please find responses inline.
 
Thanks for the reply, = comments in line
 
A recap of my comments stated and unstated at = the mike=E2=80=A6..
 
1)      We= need to sort out and document the difference between what can be = achieved by explicit protocol design, and what requires impersonation of = application traffic by a =E2=80=9Cgolden customer=E2=80=9D or similar = concept. The latter requiring some larger wrapper that encapsulates the = SFC infrastructure and can inject and measure non-OAM application = impersonating traffic.
There are two = aspects, w.r.t. SFC.
1. Describing the SFC OAM framework aspects and requirements = and
2. (to your point), what should/could be = achieved by explicit protocol design. 
 
Whether one could achieve with actual = traffic or synthetic traffic will be part of the solution and this = document is not proscribing it.
This is one aspect, we as a WG should ensure the SFC = architecture and protocol design work is coherent with SFC OAM = requirements. Agree to your concern and we do understand the = implications with mimicing traffic to test SF.
 
My concern is ensuring = the requirements are realistic. And as a framework, I would presume the = overall solution space would need to be explored to some = degree. 
=
%sam - Will try to improve upon text in the next version. = Would welcome any suggested text to refine the draft.
 
IMO there is nothing about an SF can be usefully tested by a = specific OAM protocol as it will not fate share with any aspect of the = function as the SF will be application specific and the OAM won=E2=80=99t = be. So there is no point in trying/pretending. IMO a specific OAM = protocol should be able to verify the service graph for a given SFP and = that is about it, and we should focus on what aspects of the = infrastructure that can be tested via explicit protocol design. IMO that = would be limited to aspects of path configuration and fault management. = Performance measurement being impossible.
 
I do hope the document is not creating = any incorrect presumption of what SFC OAM is pretending to be. If so, we = welcome suggestion for changes and will be happy to accommodate it. As = presented at IETF, SFC OAM only care whether SF is =E2=80=98up' or = not.
 
At this point I=E2=80=99m= not sure that without synthetic traffic, any representation as to the = state of an SF can be made. Any OAM specific protocol can only detect = gross defects and (for example) trace SFF hops in any path that does not = modify the SFP information (else all bets are = off).
I= may agree, but may not 100%, reason being, the SFC protocol itself is = not defined, yet. If there are mechanisms available within the header or = metadata or something else, SFC OAM could leverage that.

 
Any synthetic traffic = may require a complex and =E2=80=9CSF-unique=E2=80=9D series of steps to = verify SF function, to the point where other than being an = =E2=80=9Con-demand=E2=80=9D tool, it may not be practical in a = production environment. (which gets to my comment on availability = measurements).
On-demand is part of the SFC OAM tool set. One could model the = solution along the lines of how MPLS OAM on-demand tooling = did.
Other than that, I agree that it is complex. If it is = that simple, we could have created solution before the problem itself =  </jk> :D
 
2)      As= for the Golden Customer concept, Luca raised a good point that such = traffic should not be able to leak into the larger network. MPLS OAM = uses the 127/8 prefix to do this. So solutions exist.
 
This is fundamental design of all OAM = protocols within IETF and SFC OAM doesn=E2=80=99t change the definition = either. Intact, MPLS OAM uses lot more, not just local host address, so = as not to leak beyond the boundary. VCCV is also another example.
Agreed=E2=80=A6
 
3)      The language needs a bit of work. At first I found it = incomprehensible, primary because of the abuse of the term = =E2=80=9Cavailability=E2=80=9D. To an OAM guy, availability is a = =E2=80=9Cmetric=E2=80=9D (e.g. 99.993% uptime), and not a =E2=80=9Cstate=E2= =80=9D. Reading the document suggests that =E2=80=9Cavailability=E2=80=9D = is really referring to a =E2=80=9Cstate=E2=80=9D. 
 
Nod. Will definitely confirm to the = RFC7276, which specifies the OAM terminology, in the next version.
OK, great.
 
That being said I highly suspect that it will provide = impossible to define an availability metric or set of metrics for a = service function path (purpose being customer facing) or an individual = service function (purpose being supplier auditing) although I could see = a business rationale for trying ;-)=E2=80=A6 
 
4)      What we could consider would be a framework whereby vendors = could offer test scripts for the =E2=80=9Cgolden customer=E2=80=9D = (treating the chain as a black box DUT) IF the group believes such = functionality is ultimately required. I=E2=80=99m not sure we would = really want to standardize this vs. simply suggest the possibility and = leave it to SF providers to sort out.
 
If= it requires interoperability across vendor land, definitely worth = deliberating. If not, we could leave it to =E2=80=98winter vendor land = :D
 
I=E2=80=99m not sure interoperability is the correct term, = =E2=80=A6. A multi-vendor environment would place the onus on verifying = system integrity on the deploying entity, and thus would likely benefit = from some kind of agreed scripting language/model (oh dear, here we = go=E2=80=A6..), but then existing test sets are probably capable of this = such that the SFC operator may simply dictate the requirement to their = suppliers (I=E2=80=99ve insufficient knowledge to authoritatively = comment).
=46rom = SFC perspective, the chain has to be verified and validated. This = document may not be able to mandate any to SF as such. One thing we = could do is to document the text on what could help SFC operators in = order to ensure the chained services perform as configured. The only = concern I have in that case is, where to draw the line. Hope we could = get some input from WG as well.

-sam
 
BR = Dave

= --Apple-Mail=_C95EC9FA-8658-4709-B9D7-A56234F70B8F-- From nobody Fri Dec 5 06:06:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B71E1A19E4 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 06:06:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ggDyprkMZsdA for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 06:06:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxe01.gs.com (mxe01.gs.com [204.4.178.104]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCA6A1A1A07 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 06:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (gsppacdp02sd.idz.gs.com [127.0.0.1]) by gsppacdp02sd.idz.gs.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id sB5E5UwL027481; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 09:06:16 -0500 Received: from gsppacdp05nd.inz.gs.com ([10.205.68.213]) by gsppacdp02sd.idz.gs.com with ESMTP id 1r3aeubmv8-1; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 09:06:16 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (gsppacdp05nd.inz.gs.com [127.0.0.1]) by gsppacdp05nd.inz.gs.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id sB5E2i6e029963; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 09:06:16 -0500 Received: from gshcbdp08ex.firmwide.corp.gs.com (gshcbdp08ex.firmwide.corp.gs.com [10.135.172.17]) by gsppacdp05nd.inz.gs.com with ESMTP id 1r3cvw8vcb-1; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 09:06:16 -0500 Received: from GSCMAMP19EX.firmwide.corp.gs.com ([139.172.38.36]) by gshcbdp08ex.firmwide.corp.gs.com ([10.135.172.17]) with mapi; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 09:06:15 -0500 From: "Zarny, Myo" To: "'Xuxiaohu'" , "'Sharon'" , "'Joel M. Halpern'" Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 09:06:13 -0500 Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/DDaAgAA3l4CAABF6AIAASi2AgACbrsCAAMoi0A== Message-ID: References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> <5E72791D-CEB5-4BC1-8F73-37F323EC94B6@gmail.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082DCC50@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082DCC50@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US x-retentionstamp: Firmwide Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A3233753A4B65F43BCA1B64DA99A9C230714CC53DDGSCMAMP19EXfi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-12-05_05:2014-12-04,2014-12-05,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-12-05_05:2014-12-04,2014-12-05,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/YTYavdFmiU5tyUXR7akDtyO1i8g Cc: "'nsmurthy@freescale.com'" , 'Srini Addepalli' , "'sfc@ietf.org'" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:06:35 -0000 --_000_A3233753A4B65F43BCA1B64DA99A9C230714CC53DDGSCMAMP19EXfi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Xiaohu, I don't think we can necessarily equate being stateless to a smaller number= of path IDs. Traffic flows can be stateless (or stateful) and still have t= he same number of paths. To me, the number of paths is a function of policy= , not necessarily that of statefulness/statelessness of the flows. I think you mean devolving forwarding decision making to the SFFs, which ca= n make their own decision as to which of the SF instances (of the same serv= ice function) the traffic needs to be forwarded, (thereby potentially reduc= ing the number of explicit path IDs) right? Potentially because the SFFs co= uld still enforce statefulness locally. To me, that's centralized vs decent= ralized path identification/forwarding (as opposed to stateful and stateles= s). Anyway, I do agree with the overall point that we should also consider appr= oaches that could reduce the total number of paths. Regards, -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu Sent: 4 December 2014 8:54 PM To: Sharon; Joel M. Halpern Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) Since the path-id-based SFC approach requires SFFs to maintain path states,= if the total number of paths within an SFC domain is very large, it'd bett= er for us to consider how to replace stateful SFC approaches with stateless= SFC approaches, just as what SPRING and BIER have done for MPLS-TE and mul= ticast services. Best regards, Xiaohu > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sharon > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 8:30 AM > To: Joel M. Halpern > Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Srini Addepall= i; sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > > That's correct. > > If we take load balancing out of (the base of) the permutation > equation - which would be a great .. > then 24 bits is equivalent to yes/no for 24 functions. > > Enough today but given good standard sfc solution the a trend of > "everything is a middle box" can push this limit. > > --szb > > > On Dec 4, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Joel M. Halpern > > wrote: > > > > A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such c= oncerns. > > But the number of service function paths is not related to the > > number of flows > or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of combinations > of services and the policies for service function selection. While > that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to saturat= ing 24 bits. > > > > Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then > > we ought to > use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be more > than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said > that, the field size is not a big deal to me. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > >> On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > >> > >> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards > >> to > tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these = in > mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple tenants, ea= ch > tenant can have multiple networks, there could be millions of flows > in each of those networks. And considering all these, 24 bit path ID > may not be able to represent paths for these flows. Hence, I was > wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or make it flexible. > >> > >> Thanks > >> Srini > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Joel M. Halpern = > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM > >> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org > >> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 > >> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft > >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > >> > >> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of > >> ambiguity, the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet curren= tly resides. > >> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. > >> > >> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include > >> controller ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per > >> tenant, the architecture still does not treat the path ID as a > >> tenant ID. Tenant ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying > >> information is to be carried in metadata. > >> > >> Yours, > >> Joel > >> > >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > >>> Two comments : > >>> > >>> > >>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't > >>> better to rename this as "TTL"? > >>> > >>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. > >>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier > >>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For > example, > >>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information > >>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, > >>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. > >>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extend= able, > >>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> > >>> Srini > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> sfc mailing list > >>> sfc@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc --_000_A3233753A4B65F43BCA1B64DA99A9C230714CC53DDGSCMAMP19EXfi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Xiaohu,
 
I don't think we can necessarily equate being stateless to a smaller n= umber of path IDs. Traffic flows can be stateless (or stateful) and still h= ave the same number of paths. To me, the number of paths is a function of p= olicy, not necessarily that of statefulness/statelessness of the flows.
 
I think you mean devolving forwarding decision making to the SFFs, whi= ch can make their own decision as to which of the SF instances (of the same= service function) the traffic needs to be forwarded, (thereby potential= ly reducing the number of explicit path IDs) right? Potentially because the SFFs could still enforce statefuln= ess locally. To me, that's centralized vs decentralized path identification= /forwarding (as opposed to stateful and stateless).
 
Anyway, I do agree with the overall point that we should also consider= approaches that could reduce the total number of paths.
 
Regards,
 
-----Original Message-----
From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.= org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu
Sent: 4 December 2014 8:54 PM
To: Sharon; Joel M. Halpern
Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-s= ch-02)
 
Since the path-id-based SFC approach requires SFFs to maintain path st= ates, if the total number of paths within an SFC domain is very large, it'd= better for us to consider how to replace stateful SFC approaches with stat= eless SFC approaches, just as what SPRING and BIER have done for MPLS-TE and multicast services.
 
Best regards,
Xiaohu
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sharon
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 8:30 AM
> To: Joel M. Halpern
> Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.= com; Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org<= /div>
> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft
>
> That's correct.
>
>  If we take load balancing out of (the base of) the permutat= ion
> equation - which would be a great  ..
> then 24 bits is equivalent to yes/no for 24 functions.
>
> Enough today but given good standard sfc solution the a trend of =
> "everything is a middle box" can push this limit.
>
> --szb
>
> > On Dec 4, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be awar= e of such concerns.
> > But the number of service function paths is not related to t= he
> > number of flows
> or the number of tenants.  It is related to the number of co= mbinations
> of services and the policies for service function selection. = ; While
> that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to= saturating 24 bits.
> >
> > Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enou= gh, then
> > we ought to
> use 32.  From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits t= o be more
> than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24.  Hav= ing said
> that, the field size is not a big deal to me.
> >
> > Yours,
> > Joel
> >
> >> On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote:
> >>
> >> I was not implying that path ID should have information = in regards
> >> to
> tenant/controller/flow/scale-out.  But SFC controllers shoul= d keep these in
> mind to assign the path ID.    A deployment can ha= ve multiple tenants, each
> tenant can have multiple networks,  there could be millions = of flows
> in each of those networks.  And considering all these, = 24 bit path ID
> may not be able to represent paths for these flows.  Hence, = I was
> wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or make it f= lexible.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Srini
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> From: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM
> >> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org
> >> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840
> >> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft
> >>
> >> The Index is not just for loop prevention.  In the = case of
> >> ambiguity, the index tells the SFF where in the path the= packet currently resides.
> >>   There are multiple ways such ambiguity can o= ccur.
> >>
> >> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to incl= ude
> >> controller ID or Tenant ID.  While a deployer can h= ave a path per
> >> tenant, the architecture still does not treat the path I= D as a
> >> tenant ID.  Tenant ID, controller ID, and other non= -path-specifying
> >> information is to be carried in metadata.
> >>
> >> Yours,
> >> Joel
> >>
> >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote:
> >>> Two comments :
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 1.  SF Index :  Since it is meant for loop= detection,  wouldn't
> >>> better to rename this as "TTL"?
> >>>
> >>> 2.  Path Identifier :    24 bit = path identifier seems to be too less.
> >>> Based on our experience in traffic steering,  t= his path identifier
> >>> needs to encode good amount of information to make i= t unique.  For
> example,
> >>>   this identifier needs to encode (in our = case) some information
> >>> representing the distributed controller ID,  te= nant ID,  flow ID,
> >>>   Service function instance (in case of sc= ale-out) and few more..
> >>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value  or = to make it even extendable,
> >>>   it is good if path identifier is also re= presented in TLV form.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Srini
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> sfc mailing list
> >>> sfc@ietf.org
> >>>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
 
_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
 
 --_000_A3233753A4B65F43BCA1B64DA99A9C230714CC53DDGSCMAMP19EXfi_-- From nobody Fri Dec 5 06:54:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC231ACEA4 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 06:54:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7hbfkLSq5jH8 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 06:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0751.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:751]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C72151ACE9D for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 06:54:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.215.148) by DM2PR0301MB1278.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.221.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 14:54:24 +0000 Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) by DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0026.003; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 14:54:24 +0000 From: Srini Addepalli To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" , "Joel M. Halpern" , "'sfc@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/klKAgAA1pTGAABNtAIAADGxAgAAH7ICAASQ+xw== Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 14:54:23 +0000 Message-ID: <1417791258295.92226@freescale.com> References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [73.162.248.85] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1278; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1278; x-forefront-prvs: 04163EF38A x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(189002)(199003)(377454003)(479174003)(51704005)(13464003)(24454002)(19580405001)(19580395003)(31966008)(101416001)(68736005)(2656002)(86362001)(76176999)(54356999)(50986999)(92566001)(120916001)(99396003)(64706001)(66066001)(20776003)(87936001)(62966003)(77156002)(117636001)(230783001)(93886004)(105586002)(106356001)(106116001)(99286002)(107046002)(97736003)(46102003)(4396001)(21056001)(122556002)(36756003)(102836002)(40100003)(15975445007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1278; H:DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: freescale.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/duwpZYTA3dYUxP_O1rtLGQnSCMM Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:54:54 -0000 =0A= In real deployments, number of active path IDs are very lesser than 2^64, b= ut there is a good possibility of the number being more than 2^24 (16M). I= think bigger point is that why restrict this in the standards? What advant= age do we have restricting this size to 24 bits?=0A= =0A= There can be deployments, where SFC controller (Logically central, but dist= ributed) itself can do the SF instance selection on per connection/session= basis, thereby avoiding the LBs for services. In my view, assumption tha= t there will be LB SF for each scale-out service in the chain is not valid = in all cases. =0A= =0A= Thanks=0A= Srini=0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) =0A= Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 1:17 PM=0A= To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org=0A= Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840=0A= Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02)=0A= =0A= If I understood you, I do not think this is realistic. Are you saying you= =0A= need 64-bits of paths and then will monitor them all? Do fault tolerance=0A= and OAM for 2^64-bits worth of paths? Just for comparison, it=B9s like=0A= managing and monitoring the entire IPv6 host range, one-by-one.=0A= =0A= Anyway, I do not expect every single permutations to be a different path.= =0A= =0A= If each service has 256 devices providing similar service, you should most= =0A= likely use load-balancing and then you would have a single (or a few)=0A= paths. There is some discussion going on LB.=0A= =0A= >From a data plane perspective, the path is ultimately defined by the SFFs= =0A= traversed and services provided, not by a specific IP:port that the device= =0A= providing the service sits on. Well, at least from a GPE+NSH perspective.= =0A= =0A= =0A= On 12/4/14, 12:57 PM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote:= =0A= =0A= >If I take a chain with 5 services with each service say having 256=0A= >instances for scale-out, possible number of paths are 256*256*256*256*256= =0A= >=3D 0xFF FF FF FF FF. One requires 33 bits in this case. If there are mor= e=0A= >services in the chain or more chains or more instances for scale-out,=0A= >then it could go to big number very fast.=0A= >=0A= >As I mentioned my preference is to make the path ID size flexible for=0A= >future growth. If that is perceived as complex, then going for 64bit is=0A= >safer bet.=0A= >=0A= >Thanks=0A= >Srini=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >-----Original Message-----=0A= >From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]=0A= >Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 12:05 PM=0A= >To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org=0A= >Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840=0A= >Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft=0A= >(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02)=0A= >=0A= >A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such=0A= >concerns.=0A= >But the number of service function paths is not related to the number of= =0A= >flows or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of=0A= >combinations of services and the policies for service function selection.= =0A= > While that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to= =0A= >saturating 24 bits.=0A= >=0A= >Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then we=0A= >ought to use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be= =0A= >more than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said= =0A= >that, the field size is not a big deal to me.=0A= >=0A= >Yours,=0A= >Joel=0A= >=0A= >On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote:=0A= >>=0A= >> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to=0A= >>tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these= =0A= >>in mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple=0A= >>tenants, each tenant can have multiple networks, there could be=0A= >>millions of flows in each of those networks. And considering all these,= =0A= >> 24 bit path ID may not be able to represent paths for these flows.=0A= >>Hence, I was wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or=0A= >>make it flexible.=0A= >>=0A= >> Thanks=0A= >> Srini=0A= >>=0A= >> ________________________________________=0A= >> From: Joel M. Halpern =0A= >> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM=0A= >> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org=0A= >> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840=0A= >> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft=0A= >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02)=0A= >>=0A= >> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity,=0A= >> the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides.= =0A= >> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur.=0A= >>=0A= >> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller= =0A= >> ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the=0A= >> architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant=0A= >> ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be=0A= >> carried in metadata.=0A= >>=0A= >> Yours,=0A= >> Joel=0A= >>=0A= >> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote:=0A= >>> Two comments :=0A= >>>=0A= >>>=0A= >>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't=0A= >>> better to rename this as "TTL"?=0A= >>>=0A= >>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less.= =0A= >>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier=0A= >>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For=0A= >>>example,=0A= >>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information=0A= >>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID,=0A= >>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more..=0A= >>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even=0A= >>>extendable,=0A= >>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form.=0A= >>>=0A= >>>=0A= >>> Thanks=0A= >>>=0A= >>> Srini=0A= >>>=0A= >>>=0A= >>>=0A= >>>=0A= >>> _______________________________________________=0A= >>> sfc mailing list=0A= >>> sfc@ietf.org=0A= >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc=0A= >>>=0A= >=0A= >_______________________________________________=0A= >sfc mailing list=0A= >sfc@ietf.org=0A= >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc=0A= =0A= From nobody Fri Dec 5 07:09:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A6581ACE97 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 07:09:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kmxbsxd6626M for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 07:08:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44E651ACE9E for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 07:08:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8806; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1417792136; x=1419001736; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=OkPRSuf+m8Cp1b+9MVd1RGpLdOhLQGC+ZxHfaWpOZsE=; b=Ne8WXV9THB0UPINX+vbqvyD49njsGT3LntLXvUoiaiqaZ2LG3F41jGOU Qu6hnrxkj68psnjjYpj/7xDfGQK4xT6tRurteXpqLI9NNQBxWKfkabq38 aJ62LmaxY8q9ShEK1czuMJ07zztZ0ZiZT1Es5WHGoMYSO3sWTItIpbkO7 A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Am8IALHJgVStJA2G/2dsb2JhbABZgwZSWASDAcNBCoYTAhyBARYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQQBAQExMwcLDAQCAQgOAwEDAQEBBCMFAgIlCxQDBggCBAENBYg7DaMQnF4Glm0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBIEijkpIGwcGgmOBTQWPRoN+hhuTP4IwgT9vgUV+AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,522,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="103018814" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2014 15:08:51 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com [173.37.183.78]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sB5F8pHC005837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Dec 2014 15:08:51 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.8.111]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([fe80::200:5efe:173.37.183.34%12]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 09:08:51 -0600 From: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" To: Srini Addepalli , "Joel M. Halpern" , "'sfc@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/klKAgAA1pTGAAHgCAIAADr2A//9/fgCAAa10gP//fe4A Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 15:08:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> <1417791258295.92226@freescale.com> In-Reply-To: <1417791258295.92226@freescale.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.5.141003 x-originating-ip: [10.24.197.42] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: <371F90049D0D4C4EB9CDABA8FBD5F6BD@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/6-HVkQuerU7miZOGKN9egLU2QZI Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 15:09:12 -0000 DQoNCk9uIDEyLzUvMTQsIDY6NTQgQU0sICJTcmluaSBBZGRlcGFsbGkiIDxzYWRkZXBhbGxpQGZy ZWVzY2FsZS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+DQo+SW4gcmVhbCBkZXBsb3ltZW50cywgbnVtYmVyIG9m IGFjdGl2ZSBwYXRoIElEcyBhcmUgdmVyeSBsZXNzZXIgdGhhbiAyXjY0LA0KPmJ1dCB0aGVyZSBp cyBhIGdvb2QgcG9zc2liaWxpdHkgb2YgdGhlIG51bWJlciBiZWluZyBtb3JlIHRoYW4gMl4yNCAo MTZNKS4NCj4gSSB0aGluayBiaWdnZXIgcG9pbnQgaXMgdGhhdCB3aHkgcmVzdHJpY3QgdGhpcyBp biB0aGUgc3RhbmRhcmRzPyBXaGF0DQo+YWR2YW50YWdlIGRvIHdlIGhhdmUgcmVzdHJpY3Rpbmcg dGhpcyBzaXplIHRvIDI0IGJpdHM/DQoNCltSUF0gRGF0YSBwbGFuZSBlZmZpY2llbmN5LiBXaGVy ZSBkbyB3ZSBkcmF3IHRoZSBsaW5lPyAzMi1iaXRzLCA2NC1iaXRzLA0KMTI4IGJpdHM/IEkgdGhp bmsgd2Ugc2hvdWxkIGhhdmUgYSBzZW5zaWJsZSB2YWx1ZSBpbiB0aGUgU2VydmljZSBQYXRoDQpo 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nobody Fri Dec 5 07:16:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52991A89A0 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 07:16:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ffxryDW8nTtn for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 07:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0148.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B00551A1BF1 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 07:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from DM2PR0301MB1277.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.221.146) by DM2PR0301MB0637.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.96.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.31.17; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 15:16:39 +0000 Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.215.148) by DM2PR0301MB1277.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.221.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 15:16:38 +0000 Received: from DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) by DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.215.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0026.003; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 15:16:38 +0000 From: Srini Addepalli To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" , "Joel M. Halpern" , "'sfc@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/klKAgAA1pTGAABNtAIAADGxAgAAH7ICAASQ+x4AAByMAgAABINg= Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 15:16:38 +0000 Message-ID: <1417792592229.41970@freescale.com> References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> <1417791258295.92226@freescale.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [73.162.248.85] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1277;UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1277; x-forefront-prvs: 04163EF38A x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(189002)(199003)(377454003)(479174003)(51704005)(13464003)(24454002)(19580405001)(19580395003)(64706001)(31966008)(101416001)(68736005)(54356999)(2656002)(87936001)(86362001)(76176999)(92566001)(50986999)(99396003)(20776003)(120916001)(66066001)(62966003)(77156002)(117636001)(230783001)(93886004)(105586002)(106116001)(106356001)(99286002)(107046002)(97736003)(40100003)(46102003)(4396001)(21056001)(36756003)(122556002)(15975445007)(102836002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR0301MB1277; H:DM2PR0301MB0862.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR0301MB0637; X-OriginatorOrg: freescale.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/BNQSThqxX8I-hNBOSVFyZFTBReY Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 15:16:43 -0000 =0A= [RP] Data plane efficiency. =0A= =0A= SRINI> I am not so sure about data plane efficiency. Most of the processor= s work good if the number of bits are either 32 or 64. If it is 24 bits, t= hen one needs to do masking and shifting before the value is used to do any= lookup. But, this discussion can go into different direction :-), it may= not be good to go in that direction.=0A= =0A= Where do we draw the line? 32-bits, 64-bits,=0A= 128 bits? I think we should have a sensible value in the Service Path=0A= header and if you need to convey more bits you need to use the context=0A= headers.=0A= =0A= SRINI> This is a good point. This should work fine as long as there is way= to convey in the main header that the extension to path ID is available in= so and so TLV field. That should work too.=0A= =0A= Thanks=0A= Srini=0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) =0A= Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 7:08 AM=0A= To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; 'sfc@ietf.org'=0A= Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840=0A= Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02)=0A= =0A= On 12/5/14, 6:54 AM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote:=0A= =0A= >=0A= >In real deployments, number of active path IDs are very lesser than 2^64,= =0A= >but there is a good possibility of the number being more than 2^24 (16M).= =0A= > I think bigger point is that why restrict this in the standards? What=0A= >advantage do we have restricting this size to 24 bits?=0A= =0A= [RP] Data plane efficiency. Where do we draw the line? 32-bits, 64-bits,=0A= 128 bits? I think we should have a sensible value in the Service Path=0A= header and if you need to convey more bits you need to use the context=0A= headers.=0A= =0A= =0A= >=0A= >There can be deployments, where SFC controller (Logically central, but=0A= >distributed) itself can do the SF instance selection on per=0A= >connection/session basis, thereby avoiding the LBs for services. In my= =0A= >view, assumption that there will be LB SF for each scale-out service in=0A= >the chain is not valid in all cases.=0A= >=0A= >Thanks=0A= >Srini=0A= >=0A= >________________________________________=0A= >From: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) =0A= >Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 1:17 PM=0A= >To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org=0A= >Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840=0A= >Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft=0A= >(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02)=0A= >=0A= >If I understood you, I do not think this is realistic. Are you saying you= =0A= >need 64-bits of paths and then will monitor them all? Do fault tolerance= =0A= >and OAM for 2^64-bits worth of paths? Just for comparison, it=B9s like=0A= >managing and monitoring the entire IPv6 host range, one-by-one.=0A= >=0A= >Anyway, I do not expect every single permutations to be a different path.= =0A= >=0A= >If each service has 256 devices providing similar service, you should most= =0A= >likely use load-balancing and then you would have a single (or a few)=0A= >paths. There is some discussion going on LB.=0A= >=0A= >From a data plane perspective, the path is ultimately defined by the SFFs= =0A= >traversed and services provided, not by a specific IP:port that the device= =0A= >providing the service sits on. Well, at least from a GPE+NSH perspective.= =0A= >=0A= >=0A= >On 12/4/14, 12:57 PM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote:= =0A= >=0A= >>If I take a chain with 5 services with each service say having 256=0A= >>instances for scale-out, possible number of paths are 256*256*256*256*256= =0A= >>=3D 0xFF FF FF FF FF. One requires 33 bits in this case. If there are mo= re=0A= >>services in the chain or more chains or more instances for scale-out,=0A= >>then it could go to big number very fast.=0A= >>=0A= >>As I mentioned my preference is to make the path ID size flexible for=0A= >>future growth. If that is perceived as complex, then going for 64bit is= =0A= >>safer bet.=0A= >>=0A= >>Thanks=0A= >>Srini=0A= >>=0A= >>=0A= >>-----Original Message-----=0A= >>From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]=0A= >>Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 12:05 PM=0A= >>To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org=0A= >>Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840=0A= >>Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft=0A= >>(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02)=0A= >>=0A= >>A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such=0A= >>concerns.=0A= >>But the number of service function paths is not related to the number of= =0A= >>flows or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of=0A= >>combinations of services and the policies for service function selection.= =0A= >> While that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to= =0A= >>saturating 24 bits.=0A= >>=0A= >>Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then we= =0A= >>ought to use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be= =0A= >>more than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said= =0A= >>that, the field size is not a big deal to me.=0A= >>=0A= >>Yours,=0A= >>Joel=0A= >>=0A= >>On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote:=0A= >>>=0A= >>> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to= =0A= >>>tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these= =0A= >>>in mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple=0A= >>>tenants, each tenant can have multiple networks, there could be=0A= >>>millions of flows in each of those networks. And considering all these,= =0A= >>> 24 bit path ID may not be able to represent paths for these flows.=0A= >>>Hence, I was wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or=0A= >>>make it flexible.=0A= >>>=0A= >>> Thanks=0A= >>> Srini=0A= >>>=0A= >>> ________________________________________=0A= >>> From: Joel M. Halpern =0A= >>> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM=0A= >>> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org=0A= >>> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840=0A= >>> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft=0A= >>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02)=0A= >>>=0A= >>> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity,= =0A= >>> the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides.= =0A= >>> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur.=0A= >>>=0A= >>> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller= =0A= >>> ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the=0A= >>> architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant= =0A= >>> ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be= =0A= >>> carried in metadata.=0A= >>>=0A= >>> Yours,=0A= >>> Joel=0A= >>>=0A= >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote:=0A= >>>> Two comments :=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't=0A= >>>> better to rename this as "TTL"?=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less.= =0A= >>>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier=0A= >>>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For=0A= >>>>example,=0A= >>>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information=0A= >>>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID,=0A= >>>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more..=0A= >>>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even=0A= >>>>extendable,=0A= >>>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form.=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>> Thanks=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>> Srini=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>> _______________________________________________=0A= >>>> sfc mailing list=0A= >>>> sfc@ietf.org=0A= >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc=0A= >>>>=0A= >>=0A= >>_______________________________________________=0A= >>sfc mailing list=0A= >>sfc@ietf.org=0A= >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc=0A= >=0A= =0A= From nobody Fri Dec 5 08:58:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE33E1A6FCC for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 08:58:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oy9CRuJoL4Us for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 08:58:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A269A1A1A1B for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 08:58:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLR-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.196.172) by wtl-exchp-1.sandvine.com (192.168.194.176) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:58:52 -0500 Received: from WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com ([fe80::68ac:f071:19ff:3455]) by blr-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([fe80::6c6d:7108:c63c:9055%14]) with mapi id 14.03.0181.006; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:58:52 -0500 From: Dave Dolson To: Srini Addepalli , "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" , "Joel M. Halpern" , "'sfc@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/5iSAgAA3l4CAABF6AIAADr2AgAAFm4CAASdYgIAABAkAgAACLgD//8VrQA== Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 16:58:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> <1417791258295.92226@freescale.com>, <1417792592229.41970@freescale.com> In-Reply-To: <1417792592229.41970@freescale.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.72] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/OChbJUaeFB-LBuqoOhGQkZ7SMh8 Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 16:58:56 -0000 Speaking to efficiency, note that a 24-bit field could be implemented by in= dexing into an array, whereas a 64-bit field would certainly require a hash= -based approach (CAM). Today, I think 32 bits is a bit large for index lookup. This may change in = the next few years. Suppose an SFF could report its maximum number of supported IDs, which woul= d be numbered from 0...MAX ? This would allow a wide field in the protocol, but also efficient implement= ations that have a limited memory. -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Srini Addepalli Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 10:17 AM To: Reinaldo Penno (repenno); Joel M. Halpern; 'sfc@ietf.org' Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) [RP] Data plane efficiency.=20 SRINI> I am not so sure about data plane efficiency. Most of the processor= s work good if the number of bits are either 32 or 64. If it is 24 bits, t= hen one needs to do masking and shifting before the value is used to do any= lookup. But, this discussion can go into different direction :-), it may= not be good to go in that direction. Where do we draw the line? 32-bits, 64-bits, 128 bits? I think we should have a sensible value in the Service Path header and if you need to convey more bits you need to use the context headers. SRINI> This is a good point. This should work fine as long as there is way= to convey in the main header that the extension to path ID is available in= so and so TLV field. That should work too. Thanks Srini ________________________________________ From: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 7:08 AM To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; 'sfc@ietf.org' Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) On 12/5/14, 6:54 AM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote: > >In real deployments, number of active path IDs are very lesser than 2^64, >but there is a good possibility of the number being more than 2^24 (16M). > I think bigger point is that why restrict this in the standards? What >advantage do we have restricting this size to 24 bits? [RP] Data plane efficiency. Where do we draw the line? 32-bits, 64-bits, 128 bits? I think we should have a sensible value in the Service Path header and if you need to convey more bits you need to use the context headers. > >There can be deployments, where SFC controller (Logically central, but >distributed) itself can do the SF instance selection on per >connection/session basis, thereby avoiding the LBs for services. In my >view, assumption that there will be LB SF for each scale-out service in >the chain is not valid in all cases. > >Thanks >Srini > >________________________________________ >From: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) >Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 1:17 PM >To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org >Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > >If I understood you, I do not think this is realistic. Are you saying you >need 64-bits of paths and then will monitor them all? Do fault tolerance >and OAM for 2^64-bits worth of paths? Just for comparison, it=B9s like >managing and monitoring the entire IPv6 host range, one-by-one. > >Anyway, I do not expect every single permutations to be a different path. > >If each service has 256 devices providing similar service, you should most >likely use load-balancing and then you would have a single (or a few) >paths. There is some discussion going on LB. > >From a data plane perspective, the path is ultimately defined by the SFFs >traversed and services provided, not by a specific IP:port that the device >providing the service sits on. Well, at least from a GPE+NSH perspective. > > >On 12/4/14, 12:57 PM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote: > >>If I take a chain with 5 services with each service say having 256 >>instances for scale-out, possible number of paths are 256*256*256*256*256 >>=3D 0xFF FF FF FF FF. One requires 33 bits in this case. If there are mo= re >>services in the chain or more chains or more instances for scale-out, >>then it could go to big number very fast. >> >>As I mentioned my preference is to make the path ID size flexible for >>future growth. If that is perceived as complex, then going for 64bit is >>safer bet. >> >>Thanks >>Srini >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >>Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 12:05 PM >>To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org >>Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >>Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >>(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) >> >>A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such >>concerns. >>But the number of service function paths is not related to the number of >>flows or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of >>combinations of services and the policies for service function selection. >> While that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to >>saturating 24 bits. >> >>Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then we >>ought to use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be >>more than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said >>that, the field size is not a big deal to me. >> >>Yours, >>Joel >> >>On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >>> >>> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to >>>tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these >>>in mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple >>>tenants, each tenant can have multiple networks, there could be >>>millions of flows in each of those networks. And considering all these, >>> 24 bit path ID may not be able to represent paths for these flows. >>>Hence, I was wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or >>>make it flexible. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Srini >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Joel M. Halpern >>> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM >>> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org >>> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >>> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) >>> >>> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity, >>> the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides. >>> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. >>> >>> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller >>> ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the >>> architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant >>> ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be >>> carried in metadata. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Joel >>> >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >>>> Two comments : >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't >>>> better to rename this as "TTL"? >>>> >>>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. >>>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier >>>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For >>>>example, >>>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information >>>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, >>>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. >>>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even >>>>extendable, >>>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Srini >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sfc mailing list >>>> sfc@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>sfc mailing list >>sfc@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Fri Dec 5 11:06:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C931A6EF3 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:06:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yatk0pT_esVL for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:06:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x229.google.com (mail-pd0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C7F91A1F00 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:06:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f169.google.com with SMTP id z10so1219871pdj.14 for ; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 11:06:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=eikF9h5tI4hQSMQ4K+T2agspy3SxeH23IZ7jZo/KxVQ=; b=HdoZTo7B/l8txgNlhsE4IP6CgL6ua+W1kv03CwfbuZd6n+Xxf47BLf652wQd67t2Os luMtBWG8gANqLjp+f7AarTI5eKsGszS9NEmGQhoRc3Q5SOoCugyDpo2U38x9bHBbeqzp wDOl6Je2EMy2CVlCHUcvn3a99RBVH5qG5iy2z4U4cJLoAVMdS2ho5N/aHzEwKLcEQ9kD aFMNOu6J7d8wwMS106UzwduLVnTxNZ7hkkAbDKJ8WyDNXc4k+ik1rl6oOQw/wpmbgYys GuLeOBDC4xbzLSkFXu4jPii+jTgri7L4vY19RrYutzErN/zLrjroP2gR7tWMjIvrmZUO zktw== X-Received: by 10.66.163.196 with SMTP id yk4mr16987124pab.57.1417806386404; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 11:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.118] ([157.22.28.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ml8sm25119522pdb.67.2014.12.05.11.06.24 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Dec 2014 11:06:25 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-D5157AE4-06AC-4F70-9DDE-D20BF1113957 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Sharon X-Mailer: iPad Mail (12B435) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:06:20 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <03A1E654-8E79-403C-B07D-C0E55BEECBB9@gmail.com> References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> <5E72791D-CEB5-4BC1-8F73-37F323EC94B6@gmail.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082DCC50@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: "Zarny, Myo" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/RGRp64WtlRIz2W13JtWNkmZ3-Xs Cc: Xuxiaohu , "Joel M. Halpern" , Srini Addepalli , "sfc@ietf.org" , "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:06:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail-D5157AE4-06AC-4F70-9DDE-D20BF1113957 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Think the tradeoffs are well stated. Centralization and large or stacked headers do simplify forwarding, but: - compiling instances into the path depletes IDs quickly - there's not enough state for the SFF to self-heal=20 - very complex to manage, changes to often SFFs will most likely have flow tables these days, that's enough state to pin instances affinity. The result is not distributed load balancing and high availability, but also much simpler scheduling of allocated resources. Whatever capacity is allocated will be filled evenly by the network. This makes the centralized tasks like the orchestration "Tetris" simpler - and consequently the network more valuable. --szb > On Dec 5, 2014, at 06:06, Zarny, Myo wrote: >=20 > Hi Xiaohu, > =20 > I don't think we can necessarily equate being stateless to a smaller numbe= r of path IDs. Traffic flows can be stateless (or stateful) and still have t= he same number of paths. To me, the number of paths is a function of policy,= not necessarily that of statefulness/statelessness of the flows. > =20 > I think you mean devolving forwarding decision making to the SFFs, which c= an make their own decision as to which of the SF instances (of the same serv= ice function) the traffic needs to be forwarded, (thereby potentially reduci= ng the number of explicit path IDs) right? Potentially because the SFFs coul= d still enforce statefulness locally. To me, that's centralized vs decentral= ized path identification/forwarding (as opposed to stateful and stateless). > =20 > Anyway, I do agree with the overall point that we should also consider app= roaches that could reduce the total number of paths. > =20 > Regards, > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu > Sent: 4 December 2014 8:54 PM > To: Sharon; Joel M. Halpern > Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > =20 > Since the path-id-based SFC approach requires SFFs to maintain path states= , if the total number of paths within an SFC domain is very large, it'd bett= er for us to consider how to replace stateful SFC approaches with stateless S= FC approaches, just as what SPRING and BIER have done for MPLS-TE and multic= ast services. > =20 > Best regards, > Xiaohu > =20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sharon > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 8:30 AM > > To: Joel M. Halpern > > Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft > > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > > > > That's correct. > > > > If we take load balancing out of (the base of) the permutation > > equation - which would be a great .. > > then 24 bits is equivalent to yes/no for 24 functions. > > > > Enough today but given good standard sfc solution the a trend of > > "everything is a middle box" can push this limit. > > > > --szb > > > > > On Dec 4, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Joel M. Halpern > > wrote: > > > > > > A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such c= oncerns. > > > But the number of service function paths is not related to the > > > number of flows > > or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of combinations > > of services and the policies for service function selection. While > > that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to satura= ting 24 bits. > > > > > > Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then > > > we ought to > > use 32. =46rom where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be more > > than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said > > that, the field size is not a big deal to me. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Joel > > > > > >> On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > > >> > > >> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards > > >> to > > tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these= in > > mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple tenants, e= ach > > tenant can have multiple networks, there could be millions of flows > > in each of those networks. And considering all these, 24 bit path ID > > may not be able to represent paths for these flows. Hence, I was > > wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or make it flexible= . > > >> > > >> Thanks > > >> Srini > > >> > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: Joel M. Halpern > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM > > >> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org > > >> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 > > >> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft > > >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > > >> > > >> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of > > >> ambiguity, the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet curre= ntly resides. > > >> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. > > >> > > >> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include > > >> controller ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per > > >> tenant, the architecture still does not treat the path ID as a > > >> tenant ID. Tenant ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying > > >> information is to be carried in metadata. > > >> > > >> Yours, > > >> Joel > > >> > > >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > > >>> Two comments : > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't > > >>> better to rename this as "TTL"? > > >>> > > >>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less= . > > >>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier > > >>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For > > example, > > >>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information > > >>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, > > >>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. > > >>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even exten= dable, > > >>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Thanks > > >>> > > >>> Srini > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> sfc mailing list > > >>> sfc@ietf.org > > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sfc mailing list > > > sfc@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > =20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc --Apple-Mail-D5157AE4-06AC-4F70-9DDE-D20BF1113957 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Think the= tradeoffs are well stated.
Centralization and large or stacked he= aders do simplify forwarding,
but:

- comp= iling instances into the path depletes IDs quickly
- there's not e= nough state for the SFF to self-heal 
- very complex to manag= e, changes to often

SFFs will most likely have flow= tables these days,
that's enough state to pin instances affinity.=

The result is not distributed load balancing and h= igh availability,
but also much simpler scheduling of allocated re= sources.
Whatever capacity is allocated will be filled evenly by t= he network.
This makes the centralized tasks like the orchestratio= n "Tetris" simpler -
and consequently the network more valuable.



--szb

On Dec 5, 2014, at 06:06= , Zarny, Myo <Myo.Zarny@gs.com>= ; wrote:

=
Hi Xiaohu,
 
I don't think we can necessarily equate being stateless to a smaller nu= mber of path IDs. Traffic flows can be stateless (or stateful) and still hav= e the same number of paths. To me, the number of paths is a function of poli= cy, not necessarily that of statefulness/statelessness of the flows.
 
I think you mean devolving forwarding decision making to the SFFs, whic= h can make their own decision as to which of the SF instances (of the same s= ervice function) the traffic needs to be forwarded, (thereby potentially<= /i> reducing the number of explicit path IDs) right? Potentially because the SFFs could still enforce statefulne= ss locally. To me, that's centralized vs decentralized path identification/f= orwarding (as opposed to stateful and stateless).
 
Anyway, I do agree with the overall point that we should also consider a= pproaches that could reduce the total number of paths.
 
Regards,
 
-----Original Message-----
From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.o= rg] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu
Sent: 4 December 2014 8:54 PM
To: Sharon; Joel M. Halpern
Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Sr= ini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch= -02)
 
Since the path-id-based SFC approach requires SFFs to maintain path sta= tes, if the total number of paths within an SFC domain is very large, it'd b= etter for us to consider how to replace stateful SFC approaches with statele= ss SFC approaches, just as what SPRING and BIER have done for MPLS-TE and multicast services.
 
Best regards,
Xiaohu
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc [mailto:sfc-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sharon
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 8:30 AM
> To: Joel M. Halpern
> Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.c= om; Srini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft
>
> That's correct.
>
>  If we take load balancing out of (the base of) the permutati= on
> equation - which would be a great  ..
> then 24 bits is equivalent to yes/no for 24 functions.
>
> Enough today but given good standard sfc solution the a trend of <= /div>
> "everything is a middle box" can push this limit.
>
> --szb
>
> > On Dec 4, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware= of such concerns.
> > But the number of service function paths is not related to th= e
> > number of flows
> or the number of tenants.  It is related to the number of com= binations
> of services and the policies for service function selection. = While
> that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to s= aturating 24 bits.
> >
> > Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enoug= h, then
> > we ought to
> use 32.  =46rom where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits t= o be more
> than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24.  Havi= ng said
> that, the field size is not a big deal to me.
> >
> > Yours,
> > Joel
> >
> >> On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote:
> >>
> >> I was not implying that path ID should have information i= n regards
> >> to
> tenant/controller/flow/scale-out.  But SFC controllers should= keep these in
> mind to assign the path ID.    A deployment can hav= e multiple tenants, each
> tenant can have multiple networks,  there could be millions o= f flows
> in each of those networks.  And considering all these,  2= 4 bit path ID
> may not be able to represent paths for these flows.  Hence, I= was
> wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or make it fl= exible.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Srini
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> From: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM
> >> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org
> >> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840
> >> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft
> >>
> >> The Index is not just for loop prevention.  In the c= ase of
> >> ambiguity, the index tells the SFF where in the path the p= acket currently resides.
> >>   There are multiple ways such ambiguity can oc= cur.
> >>
> >> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to inclu= de
> >> controller ID or Tenant ID.  While a deployer can ha= ve a path per
> >> tenant, the architecture still does not treat the path ID= as a
> >> tenant ID.  Tenant ID, controller ID, and other non-= path-specifying
> >> information is to be carried in metadata.
> >>
> >> Yours,
> >> Joel
> >>
> >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote:
> >>> Two comments :
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 1.  SF Index :  Since it is meant for loop d= etection,  wouldn't
> >>> better to rename this as "TTL"?
> >>>
> >>> 2.  Path Identifier :    24 bit p= ath identifier seems to be too less.
> >>> Based on our experience in traffic steering,  th= is path identifier
> >>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it= unique.  For
> example,
> >>>   this identifier needs to encode (in our c= ase) some information
> >>> representing the distributed controller ID,  ten= ant ID,  flow ID,
> >>>   Service function instance (in case of sca= le-out) and few more..
> >>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value  or t= o make it even extendable,
> >>>   it is good if path identifier is also rep= resented in TLV form.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Srini
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
=
> >>> sfc mailing list
> >>> sfc@ietf.org
> >>>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
 
_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
 
= --Apple-Mail-D5157AE4-06AC-4F70-9DDE-D20BF1113957-- From nobody Fri Dec 5 11:46:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C135F1A006D for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:46:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4bcLZv48BwQP for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F5E51A006E for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMN25893; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:46:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.212.94.49) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:46:44 +0000 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.100]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.72]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:46:38 -0800 From: Cathy Zhang To: Srini Addepalli , "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" , "Joel M. Halpern" , "'sfc@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZyAGG+AgAA3l4CAABF6AIAADr2AgAAFm4CAASdXgIAABAoAgAACLgD//7j7oA== Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:46:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> <1417791258295.92226@freescale.com>, <1417792592229.41970@freescale.com> In-Reply-To: <1417792592229.41970@freescale.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.145.76] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/K_npz_1_omsSP2PE8WSxj2GTxyk Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:46:52 -0000 Ron, Louis, Myo and I have been discussing off line last few weeks about de= fining a metadata type for flow ID in addition to the path ID of the main h= eader to support load balancing among SF instances. We will define a TLV ty= pe for the flow ID. The combination of "path ID + flow ID" specifies a real= ized service chain instance path. It is left to the design/implementation w= hether to use a centralized method or a distributed method to bind the flow= ID to a realized service instance path although our original thought is fo= r distributed LB usage. I am not sure if we need a bit in the header to den= ote whether there are more path ID bits (we call it flow ID) in the metadat= a fields since when you parse the TLV metadata, you will know whether there= are flow ID bits or not. Note that if multiple sessions share the same rea= lized service instance path, they will share the same "path ID+ flow ID". = We can also consider extending the number of bits to 32 if that is the cons= ensus. We will post an updated draft describing these soon.=20 Thanks, Cathy -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Srini Addepalli Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 7:17 AM To: Reinaldo Penno (repenno); Joel M. Halpern; 'sfc@ietf.org' Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) [RP] Data plane efficiency.=20 SRINI> I am not so sure about data plane efficiency. Most of the processor= s work good if the number of bits are either 32 or 64. If it is 24 bits, t= hen one needs to do masking and shifting before the value is used to do any= lookup. But, this discussion can go into different direction :-), it may= not be good to go in that direction. Where do we draw the line? 32-bits, 64-bits, 128 bits? I think we should have a sensible value in the Service Path header and if you need to convey more bits you need to use the context headers. SRINI> This is a good point. This should work fine as long as there is way= to convey in the main header that the extension to path ID is available in= so and so TLV field. That should work too. Thanks Srini ________________________________________ From: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 7:08 AM To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; 'sfc@ietf.org' Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) On 12/5/14, 6:54 AM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote: > >In real deployments, number of active path IDs are very lesser than 2^64, >but there is a good possibility of the number being more than 2^24 (16M). > I think bigger point is that why restrict this in the standards? What >advantage do we have restricting this size to 24 bits? [RP] Data plane efficiency. Where do we draw the line? 32-bits, 64-bits, 128 bits? I think we should have a sensible value in the Service Path header and if you need to convey more bits you need to use the context headers. > >There can be deployments, where SFC controller (Logically central, but >distributed) itself can do the SF instance selection on per >connection/session basis, thereby avoiding the LBs for services. In my >view, assumption that there will be LB SF for each scale-out service in >the chain is not valid in all cases. > >Thanks >Srini > >________________________________________ >From: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) >Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 1:17 PM >To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org >Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > >If I understood you, I do not think this is realistic. Are you saying you >need 64-bits of paths and then will monitor them all? Do fault tolerance >and OAM for 2^64-bits worth of paths? Just for comparison, it=B9s like >managing and monitoring the entire IPv6 host range, one-by-one. > >Anyway, I do not expect every single permutations to be a different path. > >If each service has 256 devices providing similar service, you should most >likely use load-balancing and then you would have a single (or a few) >paths. There is some discussion going on LB. > >From a data plane perspective, the path is ultimately defined by the SFFs >traversed and services provided, not by a specific IP:port that the device >providing the service sits on. Well, at least from a GPE+NSH perspective. > > >On 12/4/14, 12:57 PM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote: > >>If I take a chain with 5 services with each service say having 256 >>instances for scale-out, possible number of paths are 256*256*256*256*256 >>=3D 0xFF FF FF FF FF. One requires 33 bits in this case. If there are mo= re >>services in the chain or more chains or more instances for scale-out, >>then it could go to big number very fast. >> >>As I mentioned my preference is to make the path ID size flexible for >>future growth. If that is perceived as complex, then going for 64bit is >>safer bet. >> >>Thanks >>Srini >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >>Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 12:05 PM >>To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org >>Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >>Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >>(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) >> >>A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such >>concerns. >>But the number of service function paths is not related to the number of >>flows or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of >>combinations of services and the policies for service function selection. >> While that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to >>saturating 24 bits. >> >>Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then we >>ought to use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be >>more than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said >>that, the field size is not a big deal to me. >> >>Yours, >>Joel >> >>On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >>> >>> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards to >>>tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these >>>in mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple >>>tenants, each tenant can have multiple networks, there could be >>>millions of flows in each of those networks. And considering all these, >>> 24 bit path ID may not be able to represent paths for these flows. >>>Hence, I was wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or >>>make it flexible. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Srini >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Joel M. Halpern >>> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM >>> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org >>> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >>> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) >>> >>> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of ambiguity, >>> the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides. >>> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. >>> >>> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include controller >>> ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per tenant, the >>> architecture still does not treat the path ID as a tenant ID. Tenant >>> ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying information is to be >>> carried in metadata. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Joel >>> >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >>>> Two comments : >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't >>>> better to rename this as "TTL"? >>>> >>>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. >>>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier >>>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For >>>>example, >>>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information >>>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, >>>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. >>>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even >>>>extendable, >>>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Srini >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sfc mailing list >>>> sfc@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>sfc mailing list >>sfc@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Fri Dec 5 12:24:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE8D1ACDA4 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 12:24:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QBbZOAjMpUXX for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 12:24:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub021-ca-7.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-7.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.56.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A89B1A016A for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 12:24:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-7.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.109]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 12:24:35 -0800 From: Ron Parker To: Cathy Zhang , Srini Addepalli , "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" , "Joel M. Halpern" , "'sfc@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9kHFOTKJIie6ES015pmlGgJ3ZyAGG+AgAA3l4CAABF6AIAADr2AgAAFm4CAASdXgIAABAoAgAACLgD//7j7oIAAFrEQ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 20:24:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> <1417791258295.92226@freescale.com>, <1417792592229.41970@freescale.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [98.229.164.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/PRAEb1mQNJ-K3i6icJJrpp8OPxQ Cc: "nsmurthy@freescale.com" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 20:24:39 -0000 I think the SFF can simply look for the FlowID TLV (Quinn's arguments about= hardware parsing notwithstanding). It should be 32 bits, IMO. Ron -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Cathy Zhang Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 2:47 PM To: Srini Addepalli; Reinaldo Penno (repenno); Joel M. Halpern; 'sfc@ietf.o= rg' Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) Ron, Louis, Myo and I have been discussing off line last few weeks about de= fining a metadata type for flow ID in addition to the path ID of the main h= eader to support load balancing among SF instances. We will define a TLV ty= pe for the flow ID. The combination of "path ID + flow ID" specifies a real= ized service chain instance path. It is left to the design/implementation w= hether to use a centralized method or a distributed method to bind the flow= ID to a realized service instance path although our original thought is fo= r distributed LB usage. I am not sure if we need a bit in the header to den= ote whether there are more path ID bits (we call it flow ID) in the metadat= a fields since when you parse the TLV metadata, you will know whether there= are flow ID bits or not. Note that if multiple sessions share the same rea= lized service instance path, they will share the same "path ID+ flow ID". = We can also consider extending the number of bits to 32 if that is the cons= ensus. We will post an updated draft describing these soon.=20 Thanks, Cathy -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Srini Addepalli Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 7:17 AM To: Reinaldo Penno (repenno); Joel M. Halpern; 'sfc@ietf.org' Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) [RP] Data plane efficiency.=20 SRINI> I am not so sure about data plane efficiency. Most of the processor= s work good if the number of bits are either 32 or 64. If it is 24 bits, t= hen one needs to do masking and shifting before the value is used to do any= lookup. But, this discussion can go into different direction :-), it may= not be good to go in that direction. Where do we draw the line? 32-bits, 64-bits, 128 bits? I think we should have a sensible value in the Service Path heade= r and if you need to convey more bits you need to use the context headers. SRINI> This is a good point. This should work fine as long as there is way= to convey in the main header that the extension to path ID is available in= so and so TLV field. That should work too. Thanks Srini ________________________________________ From: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 7:08 AM To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; 'sfc@ietf.org' Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) On 12/5/14, 6:54 AM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote: > >In real deployments, number of active path IDs are very lesser than=20 >2^64, but there is a good possibility of the number being more than 2^24 (= 16M). > I think bigger point is that why restrict this in the standards? What=20 >advantage do we have restricting this size to 24 bits? [RP] Data plane efficiency. Where do we draw the line? 32-bits, 64-bits, 128 bits? I think we should have a sensible value in the Service Path heade= r and if you need to convey more bits you need to use the context headers. > >There can be deployments, where SFC controller (Logically central, but >distributed) itself can do the SF instance selection on per >connection/session basis, thereby avoiding the LBs for services. In my >view, assumption that there will be LB SF for each scale-out service in=20 >the chain is not valid in all cases. > >Thanks >Srini > >________________________________________ >From: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) >Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 1:17 PM >To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org >Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > >If I understood you, I do not think this is realistic. Are you saying=20 >you need 64-bits of paths and then will monitor them all? Do fault=20 >tolerance and OAM for 2^64-bits worth of paths? Just for comparison,=20 >it=B9s like managing and monitoring the entire IPv6 host range, one-by-one= . > >Anyway, I do not expect every single permutations to be a different path. > >If each service has 256 devices providing similar service, you should=20 >most likely use load-balancing and then you would have a single (or a=20 >few) paths. There is some discussion going on LB. > >From a data plane perspective, the path is ultimately defined by the=20 >SFFs traversed and services provided, not by a specific IP:port that=20 >the device providing the service sits on. Well, at least from a GPE+NSH pe= rspective. > > >On 12/4/14, 12:57 PM, "Srini Addepalli" wrote: > >>If I take a chain with 5 services with each service say having 256=20 >>instances for scale-out, possible number of paths are=20 >>256*256*256*256*256 =3D 0xFF FF FF FF FF. One requires 33 bits in this=20 >>case. If there are more services in the chain or more chains or more=20 >>instances for scale-out, then it could go to big number very fast. >> >>As I mentioned my preference is to make the path ID size flexible for=20 >>future growth. If that is perceived as complex, then going for 64bit=20 >>is safer bet. >> >>Thanks >>Srini >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >>Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 12:05 PM >>To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org >>Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >>Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >>(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) >> >>A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such=20 >>concerns. >>But the number of service function paths is not related to the number=20 >>of flows or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of=20 >>combinations of services and the policies for service function selection. >> While that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close=20 >>to saturating 24 bits. >> >>Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then=20 >>we ought to use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits=20 >>to be more than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. =20 >>Having said that, the field size is not a big deal to me. >> >>Yours, >>Joel >> >>On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >>> >>> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards=20 >>>to tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep th= ese >>>in mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple >>>tenants, each tenant can have multiple networks, there could be=20 >>>millions of flows in each of those networks. And considering all=20 >>>these, >>> 24 bit path ID may not be able to represent paths for these flows. >>>Hence, I was wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or=20 >>>make it flexible. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Srini >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Joel M. Halpern >>> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM >>> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org >>> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 >>> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft >>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) >>> >>> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of=20 >>> ambiguity, the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet current= ly resides. >>> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. >>> >>> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include=20 >>> controller ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per=20 >>> tenant, the architecture still does not treat the path ID as a=20 >>> tenant ID. Tenant ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying=20 >>> information is to be carried in metadata. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Joel >>> >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: >>>> Two comments : >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't=20 >>>> better to rename this as "TTL"? >>>> >>>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. >>>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier =20 >>>>needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For=20 >>>>example, >>>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information =20 >>>>representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, >>>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. >>>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even=20 >>>>extendable, >>>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Srini >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sfc mailing list >>>> sfc@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>sfc mailing list >>sfc@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Sun Dec 7 17:33:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 707001A1B38 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2014 17:33:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbJZ8-7CAQ0r for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2014 17:33:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6F461A1B30 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2014 17:33:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMO58769; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 01:33:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.40) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 01:33:31 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.199]) by nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 09:33:27 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Zarny, Myo" , "'Sharon'" , "'Joel M. Halpern'" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) Thread-Index: AQHQD9FqH/wTNyDwgkS9ydl+3/sIXZx/DDaAgAA3l4CAABF6AIAASi2AgACbrsCAAMoi0IAD5nDA Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 01:33:26 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082E55CF@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1417705315845.11888@freescale.com> <54808103.8020807@joelhalpern.com> <1417719712539.38767@freescale.com> <5480BE4E.1080408@joelhalpern.com> <5E72791D-CEB5-4BC1-8F73-37F323EC94B6@gmail.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082DCC50@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082E55CFNKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/rGBA3RoxsHDtxncgH62lL9eB1P0 Cc: "'nsmurthy@freescale.com'" , 'Srini Addepalli' , "'sfc@ietf.org'" Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 01:33:39 -0000 --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082E55CFNKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Zarny, Myo [mailto:Myo.Zarny@gs.com] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 10:06 PM To: Xuxiaohu; 'Sharon'; 'Joel M. Halpern' Cc: 'nsmurthy@freescale.com'; 'Srini Addepalli'; 'sfc@ietf.org' Subject: RE: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) Hi Xiaohu, I don't think we can necessarily equate being stateless to a smaller number= of path IDs. Traffic flows can be stateless (or stateful) and still have t= he same number of paths. To me, the number of paths is a function of policy= , not necessarily that of statefulness/statelessness of the flows. I think you mean devolving forwarding decision making to the SFFs, which ca= n make their own decision as to which of the SF instances (of the same serv= ice function) the traffic needs to be forwarded, (thereby potentially reduc= ing the number of explicit path IDs) right? Potentially because the SFFs co= uld still enforce statefulness locally. To me, that's centralized vs decent= ralized path identification/forwarding (as opposed to stateful and stateles= s). [Xiaohu] No, I didn't mean reducing the number of paths by using local load= -balancing. Instead, I mean a totally different approach in which the expli= cit SFP info is directly encoded within the packet (see https://tools.ietf.= org/html/draft-xu-sfc-using-mpls-spring-01). Best regards, Xiaohu Anyway, I do agree with the overall point that we should also consider appr= oaches that could reduce the total number of paths. Regards, -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu Sent: 4 December 2014 8:54 PM To: Sharon; Joel M. Halpern Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Srini Addepalli;= sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-sfc-sch-02) Since the path-id-based SFC approach requires SFFs to maintain path states,= if the total number of paths within an SFC domain is very large, it'd bett= er for us to consider how to replace stateful SFC approaches with stateless= SFC approaches, just as what SPRING and BIER have done for MPLS-TE and mul= ticast services. Best regards, Xiaohu > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sharon > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 8:30 AM > To: Joel M. Halpern > Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Srini Addepall= i; sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > > That's correct. > > If we take load balancing out of (the base of) the permutation > equation - which would be a great .. > then 24 bits is equivalent to yes/no for 24 functions. > > Enough today but given good standard sfc solution the a trend of > "everything is a middle box" can push this limit. > > --szb > > > On Dec 4, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Joel M. Halpern > > wrote: > > > > A controller (or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such c= oncerns. > > But the number of service function paths is not related to the > > number of flows > or the number of tenants. It is related to the number of combinations > of services and the policies for service function selection. While > that can be a large number, I sure hope it does not come close to saturat= ing 24 bits. > > > > Having said that, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then > > we ought to > use 32. From where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be more > than sufficient, which is why I am comfortable with 24. Having said > that, the field size is not a big deal to me. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > >> On 12/4/14, 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > >> > >> I was not implying that path ID should have information in regards > >> to > tenant/controller/flow/scale-out. But SFC controllers should keep these = in > mind to assign the path ID. A deployment can have multiple tenants, ea= ch > tenant can have multiple networks, there could be millions of flows > in each of those networks. And considering all these, 24 bit path ID > may not be able to represent paths for these flows. Hence, I was > wondering whether path ID can be extended to 64 bits or make it flexible. > >> > >> Thanks > >> Srini > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Joel M. Halpern = > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM > >> To: Addepalli Srini-B22160; sfc@ietf.org > >> Cc: NS Srinivasa Murthy-B37840 > >> Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft > >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02) > >> > >> The Index is not just for loop prevention. In the case of > >> ambiguity, the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet curren= tly resides. > >> There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur. > >> > >> The Path Identifier is specifically not expected to include > >> controller ID or Tenant ID. While a deployer can have a path per > >> tenant, the architecture still does not treat the path ID as a > >> tenant ID. Tenant ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying > >> information is to be carried in metadata. > >> > >> Yours, > >> Joel > >> > >>> On 12/4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote: > >>> Two comments : > >>> > >>> > >>> 1. SF Index : Since it is meant for loop detection, wouldn't > >>> better to rename this as "TTL"? > >>> > >>> 2. Path Identifier : 24 bit path identifier seems to be too less. > >>> Based on our experience in traffic steering, this path identifier > >>> needs to encode good amount of information to make it unique. For > example, > >>> this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information > >>> representing the distributed controller ID, tenant ID, flow ID, > >>> Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more.. > >>> One suggestion is to make it 64 bits value or to make it even extend= able, > >>> it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form. > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> > >>> Srini > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> sfc mailing list > >>> sfc@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082E55CFNKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 = ;

 = ;

From: Zarny, Myo [mailto:Myo.Zarny@gs.com]
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 10:06 PM
To: Xuxiaohu; 'Sharon'; 'Joel M. Halpern'
Cc: 'nsmurthy@freescale.com'; 'Srini Addepalli'; 'sfc@ietf.org'
Subject: RE: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/draft-zhang-sfc-sch-02)

 

Hi Xiaohu,

 =

I don't think we can nec= essarily equate being stateless to a smaller number of path IDs. Traffic fl= ows can be stateless (or stateful) and still have the same number of paths. To me, the number of paths is a function of policy, not n= ecessarily that of statefulness/statelessness of the flows.

 =

I think you mean devolvi= ng forwarding decision making to the SFFs, which can make their own decisio= n as to which of the SF instances (of the same service function) the traffic needs to be forwarded, (thereby potentially reducing th= e number of explicit path IDs) right? Potentially because the SFFs could st= ill enforce statefulness locally. To me, that's centralized vs decentralize= d path identification/forwarding (as opposed to stateful and stateless).

 

[Xiaohu] N= o, I didn’t mean reducing the number of paths by using local load-bal= ancing. Instead, I mean a totally different approach in which the explicit SFP info is directly encoded within the packet (see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-sfc-using-mpls-spring-01).

 = ;

Best regar= ds,

Xiaohu

 = ;

Anyway, I do agree with = the overall point that we should also consider approaches that could reduce= the total number of paths.

 =

Regards,

 =

-----Original Message---= --
From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.= org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu
Sent: 4 December 2014 8:54 PM
To: Sharon; Joel M. Halpern
Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; S= rini Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-sfc-s= ch-02)

 =

Since the path-id-based = SFC approach requires SFFs to maintain path states, if the total number of = paths within an SFC domain is very large, it'd better for us to consider how to replace stateful SFC approaches with stateless SFC a= pproaches, just as what SPRING and BIER have done for MPLS-TE and multicast= services.

 =

Best regards,=

Xiaohu=

 =

> -----Original Messa= ge-----

> From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf= Of Sharon

> Sent: Friday, Decem= ber 05, 2014 8:30 AM

> To: Joel M. Halpern=

> Cc: nsmurthy@freescale.com; Srini= Addepalli; sfc@ietf.org

> Subject: Re: [sfc] = Comments on SCH Draft

>

> That's correct.

>

>  If we take lo= ad balancing out of (the base of) the permutation

> equation - which wo= uld be a great  ..

> then 24 bits is equ= ivalent to yes/no for 24 functions.

>

> Enough today but gi= ven good standard sfc solution the a trend of

> "everything is= a middle box" can push this limit.

>

> --szb

>

> > On Dec 4, 2014= , at 12:04 PM, Joel M. Halpern <j= mh@joelhalpern.com>

> wrote:

> >

> > A controller (= or other decision logic) can certainly be aware of such concerns.

> > But the number= of service function paths is not related to the

> > number of flow= s

> or the number of te= nants.  It is related to the number of combinations

> of services and the= policies for service function selection.  While

> that can be a large= number, I sure hope it does not come close to saturating 24 bits.

> >

> > Having said th= at, if we think that 24 bits is only just enough, then

> > we ought to

> use 32.  From = where I sit, I would normally expect 16 bits to be more

> than sufficient, wh= ich is why I am comfortable with 24.  Having said

> that, the field siz= e is not a big deal to me.

> >

> > Yours,

> > Joel

> >

> >> On 12/4/14= , 2:01 PM, Srini Addepalli wrote:

> >>=

> >> I was not = implying that path ID should have information in regards

> >> to

> tenant/controller/f= low/scale-out.  But SFC controllers should keep these in

> mind to assign the = path ID.    A deployment can have multiple tenants, each

> tenant can have mul= tiple networks,  there could be millions of flows

> in each of those ne= tworks.  And considering all these,  24 bit path ID

> may not be able to = represent paths for these flows.  Hence, I was

> wondering whether p= ath ID can be extended to 64 bits or make it flexible.

> >>=

> >> Thanks

> >> Srini=

> >>=

> >> __________= ______________________________

> >> From: Joel= M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com<= /a>>

> >> Sent: Thur= sday, December 4, 2014 7:42 AM

> >> Cc: NS Sri= nivasa Murthy-B37840

> >> Subject: R= e: [sfc] Comments on SCH Draft

> >>=

> >> The Index = is not just for loop prevention.  In the case of

> >> ambiguity,= the index tells the SFF where in the path the packet currently resides.

> >>  = ; There are multiple ways such ambiguity can occur.

> >>=

> >> The Path I= dentifier is specifically not expected to include

> >> controller= ID or Tenant ID.  While a deployer can have a path per

> >> tenant, th= e architecture still does not treat the path ID as a

> >> tenant ID.=   Tenant ID, controller ID, and other non-path-specifying

> >> informatio= n is to be carried in metadata.

> >>=

> >> Yours,

> >> Joel<= /o:p>

> >>=

> >>> On 12/= 4/14, 10:02 AM, Srini Addepalli wrote:

> >>> Two co= mments :

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> 1.&nbs= p; SF Index :  Since it is meant for loop detection,  wouldn't

> >>> better= to rename this as "TTL"?

> >>>

> >>> 2.&nbs= p; Path Identifier :    24 bit path identifier seems to be t= oo less.

> >>> Based = on our experience in traffic steering,  this path identifier

> >>> needs = to encode good amount of information to make it unique.  For

> example,=

> >>> &= nbsp; this identifier needs to encode (in our case) some information

> >>> repres= enting the distributed controller ID,  tenant ID,  flow ID,<= /o:p>

> >>> &= nbsp; Service function instance (in case of scale-out) and few more..<= /o:p>

> >>> One su= ggestion is to make it 64 bits value  or to make it even extendable,

> >>> &= nbsp; it is good if path identifier is also represented in TLV form.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Thanks=

> >>>

> >>> Srini<= o:p>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> ______= _________________________________________

> >>> sfc ma= iling list

> >>> sfc@ietf.org

> >>>

> >

> > ______________= _________________________________

> > sfc mailing li= st

>

> ___________________= ____________________________

> sfc mailing list

 =

________________________= _______________________

sfc mailing list

 =

--_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082E55CFNKGEML512MBSchi_-- From nobody Tue Dec 9 16:26:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0D81A6FE5 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 14:46:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T3ky-0QtdYGF for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 14:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yh0-x229.google.com (mail-yh0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E70D11A6F22 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 14:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yh0-f41.google.com with SMTP id a41so754733yho.0 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:46:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=EkX7xIn5A5fSVVo2TU5F/ZsOCqZuRIMXxh0NLFxK24k=; b=kmvrw4pvlhPyfktJbJeX/Tm+Euj2zzvVkNmmLfnTWF8QBUNC0Dh1VnWruyD9TE7uKU X1X91/zIApyVNeGgxxHlUJL0paGC8apVthCcnW3bsZcWelMwQdHqU0uP55pEi7zH5LeU OTxWXYuaPQSg+35wXnjj7ynBtJZ6z+JB1PFjOPZb+VLbwLH35Kac0n8GuBSLyR/smPGd EGdyeWxeZOkwdnz6TqM6EP8ipgrtzvZmnEcNB7m7eOfUAZZ+8mpnIU9x2bwA+1U82D3T /l7Xs1gd7Z2STOmFbtOwSckiuJdE5lgRvB1gzID4n32sUs4u6iPNaAzRZc9yGnm+aFBy NFkg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.170.164.193 with SMTP id g184mr643304ykd.72.1418165190135; Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.136.132 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 14:46:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 17:46:30 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: "routing-discussion@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113936b46414e80509d05081 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/DITN0_8-qO_2Tc-9KWF6FApfCTw X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 16:26:26 -0800 Subject: [sfc] routing area design team on dataplane encapsulation considerations X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 22:46:33 -0000 --001a113936b46414e80509d05081 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have chartered a Routing Area Design Team to work on data-plane encapsulation considerations. I've bcc'd nvo3, sfc, bier, and rtgwg as the most directly relevant. Please keep any conversation in one place on routing-discussion. Erik Nordmark has kindly agreed to lead this design team. The members of the design team are: Albert Tian Erik Nordmark Jesse Gross Jon Hudson Larry Kreeger (kreeger) Pankaj Garg Pat Thaler Tom Herbert The mailing list, rgt-dt-encap-considerations@ietf.org, is closed but the archives are publicly available at: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-dt-encap-considerations/current/ma= illist.html The Design Team is chartered as follows: There have been multiple efforts over the years that have resulted in new or modified data plane behaviors involving encapsulations. That includes IETF efforts like MPLS, LISP, and TRILL but also industry efforts like Vxlan and NVGRE. These collectively can be seen as a source of insight into the properties that data planes need to meet. The IETF is currently working on potentially new encapsulations in NVO3 and SFC and considering working on BIER. In addition there is work on tunneling in the INT area. This is a short term design team chartered to collect and construct useful advice to parties working on new or modified data plane behaviors that include additional encapsulations. The goal is for the group to document useful advice gathered from interacting with ongoing efforts. An Internet Draft will be produced for IETF92 to capture that advice, which will be discussed in RTGWG. Data plane encapsulations face a set of common issues such as: * How to provide entropy for ECMP * Issues around packet size and fragmentation/reassembly * OAM - what support is needed in an encapsulation format? * Security and privacy. * QoS * Congestion Considerations * IPv6 header protection (non-zero UDP checksum over IPv6 issue) * Extensibility - e.g., for evolving OAM, security, and/or congestion control * Layering of multiple encapsulations e.g., SFC over NVO3 over BIER The design team will provide advice on those issues. The intention is that even where we have different encapsulations for different purposes carrying different data, each such encapsulation doesn=E2=80=99t have to reinvent th= e wheel for the above common issues. The design team will look across the routing area in particular at SFC, NVO3 and BIER. It will not be involved in comparing or analyzing any particular encapsulation formats proposed in those WGs and BoFs but instead focus on common advice. Regards, Alia --001a113936b46414e80509d05081 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have chartered a Routing Area Design Team to work on dat= a-plane encapsulation considerations.

I've bcc'd= nvo3, sfc, bier, and rtgwg as the most directly relevant.=C2=A0 Please kee= p any conversation in one place on routing-discussion.

Erik Nordmark has kindly agreed to lead this design team.=C2=A0 The memb= ers of the design
team are:

=C2=A0 Albert Tian <albert.tian@ericsson.com>
=C2=A0 Erik Nordmark <nordmark@sonic.net>
=C2=A0 Jesse= Gross <jgross@vm= ware.com>
=C2=A0 Jon Hudson <jon.hudson@gmail.com>
=C2=A0 Larry Kreeg= er (kreeger) <kre= eger@cisco.com>
=C2=A0 Pankaj Garg <Garg.Pankaj@microsoft.com>
= =C2=A0 Pat Thaler <pthaler@broadcom.com>
=C2=A0 Tom Herbert <therbert@google.com>
=

The mailing list, = rgt-dt-encap-considerations@ietf.org, is closed but the archives are
publicly available at:
<= div style=3D"font-size:13px">
The De= sign Team is chartered as follows:

<= /div>
There have been multiple efforts over the years that have resulted in n= ew or modified data plane behaviors involving encapsulations. That includes= IETF efforts like MPLS, LISP, and TRILL but also industry efforts like Vxl= an and NVGRE.=C2=A0 These collectively can be seen as a source of insight i= nto the properties that data planes need to meet.=C2=A0 The IETF is current= ly working on potentially new encapsulations in NVO3 and SFC and considerin= g working on BIER. In addition there is work on tunneling in the INT area.<= br>
This is a short term design team chartered to collect and construct = useful advice to parties working on new or modified data plane behaviors th= at include additional encapsulations.=C2=A0 The goal is for the group to do= cument useful advice gathered from interacting with ongoing efforts.=C2=A0 = An Internet Draft will be produced for IETF92 to capture that advice, which= will be discussed in RTGWG.

Data plane encapsulations face a set of= common issues such as:

=C2=A0 * How to provide entropy for ECMP
= =C2=A0 * Issues around packet size and fragmentation/reassembly
=C2=A0 *= OAM - what support is needed in an encapsulation format?
=C2=A0 * Secur= ity and privacy.
=C2=A0 *=C2=A0QoS
=C2=A0 *=C2=A0Congestion Considera= tions
=C2=A0 *=C2=A0IPv6 header protection (non-zero UDP checksum over I= Pv6 issue)
=C2=A0 * Extensibility - e.g., for evolving OAM, security, an= d/or congestion control
=C2=A0 * Layering of multiple encapsulations e.g= ., SFC over NVO3 over BIER

The design team will provide advice on those issues. The intention is th= at even where we have different encapsulations for different purposes carry= ing different data, each such encapsulation doesn=E2=80=99t have to reinven= t the wheel for the above common issues.

The= design team will look across the routing area in particular at SFC, NVO3 a= nd BIER. It will not be involved in comparing or analyzing any particular e= ncapsulation formats proposed in those WGs and BoFs but instead focus on co= mmon advice.

Regards,
Alia
--001a113936b46414e80509d05081-- From nobody Tue Dec 9 22:49:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934911A1B8A for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 22:49:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z769qhdbdfTQ for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 22:49:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B57EC1A1B9C for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 22:49:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BPW56444; 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Wed, 10 Dec 2014 06:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JL16Hi7GE3VN for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 06:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E08C1A1B6A for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 06:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com ([fe80::68ac:f071:19ff:3455]) by wtl-exchp-1.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 09:44:26 -0500 From: Dave Dolson To: "'sfc@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-song-sfc-legacy-sf-mapping-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHQFERhdw8ji9Aiekawqqz4phd2rJyIYFiQgACFEHA= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 14:44:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.109] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:17:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:17:48 -0500 From: "mikebianc@aol.com" To: sankarr@juniper.net Message-ID: <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3634_489621193.1418311068996" X-Originating-IP: 10.182.2.30, 10.182.2.30 X-Mailer: Alto x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1418311071; bh=A34Z3buRb9NXsMxorAivhQH58irs4vMWjiUkEfuXkH8=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=PDCEprv6t0WbsuyDiUGyxor+s6eNLoDfal/dN7U1uCxT4yLEbSR3hjdTxBEtTO39A AP9ak4E1syXD458sv3nj2/NKRLT3v/VPH/zOa3lahjx9xcwmAFnvS9HX8MR3jGfM/G FSCVIRiX36uBmlCIjUVU+hN+qW0c4bUCJBMtqUsY= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1add4e5489b59e043c X-AOL-IP: 205.188.178.60 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/EADOBDqBOGfNq80LsmQqUQgVbI8 Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 15:17:54 -0000 ------=_Part_3634_489621193.1418311068996 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So far, the only references I've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aw= are SFs and discussions around proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a). =C2=A0As th= e SF can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be = SFC-aware. =C2=A0Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC fea= tures. e.g. most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification= . I haven't seen anything in the drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of th= e options for that matter). There is also a proposed mechanism for the SF to provide feedback to influe= nce classification. see: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03 From: sankarr@juniper.net To: sfc@ietf.org Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 Subject: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi, I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts. Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed. A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt) To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP. The possible scenarios I see are a) =C2=A0=C2=A0 SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participatin= g in. Many existing SF functions may fall in this category. b) =C2=A0=C2=A0 SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a sim= ple construct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interfa= ce), where SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the le= ft interface will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is n= ot aware of SFP beyond following the rules of the simple construct (interfa= ce-pair). c) =C2=A0=C2=A0 SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a = special header (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating= in and reflecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets. d) =C2=A0=C2=A0 SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can p= ick an SFC (opaque value) through policy decisions.=20 e) =C2=A0=C2=A0 SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence t= he selection of next SF through policy decisions.=20 The question I have is - =C2=A0=C2=A0 Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF i= n SFC? Should just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient? If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it. Thanks, Sankar _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc ------=_Part_3634_489621193.1418311068996 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So far, = the only references I've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aware SFs = and discussions around proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a).  As the SF can= process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-awar= e.  Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e= .g. most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification.
<= /font>
I haven't seen anything in the drafts that would pr= ohibit (e) (or any of the options for that matter).

There is also a proposed mechanism for the SF to provide feedback t= o influence classification.

= see: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03






From: sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.net>
To: sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, Novembe= r 13, 2014
Subject: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness

</ti= tle><br><br>Hi,<br><br>I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catc= hing up on SFC drafts.<br><br>Please bear with me if these questions have b= een already discussed.<br><br>A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-i= etf-sfc-architecture-02.txt)<br><br>To what extent an SF should be aware of= SFC or SFP.<br><br>The possible scenarios I see are<br><br>a)   = SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participating in. Many exi= sting SF functions may fall in this category.<br><br>b)    SF is = aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simple construct such an = interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interface), where SF will tak= e responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the left interface will be s= ent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of SFP beyond= following the rules of the simple construct (interface-pair).<br><br>c) &n= bsp;  SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a speci= al header (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating in a= nd reflecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets.<br><br>d)  = ;  SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can pick an S= FC (opaque value) through policy decisions. <br><br>e)    SF is a= ware of SFC details through OAM and can influence the selection of next S= F through policy decisions. <br><br>The question I have is<br><br>-  &= nbsp; Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF in SFC? Sh= ould just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient?<br><br><br>If these= points are already described in some draft please point me to it.<br><br>T= hanks,<br><br>Sankar<br><br>_______________________________________________= <br>sfc mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br= ><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc">https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br></div></font> ------=_Part_3634_489621193.1418311068996-- From nobody Thu Dec 11 07:42:07 2014 Return-Path: <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F7B1A6F2E for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:42:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JpmxPasmXFma for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:42:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub021-ca-1.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-1.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.22.168]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD2041A1F16 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:42:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-1.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.30]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:42:01 -0800 From: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com> To: "mikebianc@aol.com" <mikebianc@aol.com>, "sankarr@juniper.net" <sankarr@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Thread-Index: AQHQFVWlEsSnzIBNpkKdpmtfkHq7r5yKhjRw Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 15:42:01 +0000 Message-ID: <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> References: <cc8bde1674e44dfd8e0e31fd59fd3a11@BLUPR05MB386.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [50.203.66.100] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04MBX021W3CA2exch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/mD8TF9vWrAlDOLALMCDq_X7rWBw Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: 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d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc2ZjPC9hPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04MBX021W3CA2exch_-- From nobody Thu Dec 11 13:53:13 2014 Return-Path: <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 637E81A1A93; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 13:53:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bbu-XRIvsWSi; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 13:53:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DCD1A0121; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 13:53:04 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org> X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> Message-ID: <20141211215304.16539.47941.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 13:53:04 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/tPBYyl6YVssOMZakQVrV46W33kg Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] Last Call: <draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement-10.txt> (Service Function Chaining Problem Statement) to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 21:53:08 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Service Function Chaining WG (sfc) to consider the following document: - 'Service Function Chaining Problem Statement' <draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement-10.txt> as Informational RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2014-12-25. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document provides an overview of the issues associated with the deployment of service functions (such as firewalls, load balancers) in large-scale environments. The term service function chaining is used to describe the definition and instantiation of an ordered set of instances of such service functions, and the subsequent "steering" of traffic flows through those service functions. The set of enabled service function chains reflect operator service offerings and is designed in conjunction with application delivery and service and network policy. The file can be obtained via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement/ IESG discussion can be tracked via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2285/ From nobody Thu Dec 11 17:44:28 2014 Return-Path: <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47C21A90FB for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:44:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RP4vUqMWRgEr for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 311221A1C02 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:44:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMT43999; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:44:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.39) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:44:20 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.199]) by nkgeml408-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:44:14 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> To: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, "mikebianc@aol.com" <mikebianc@aol.com>, "sankarr@juniper.net" <sankarr@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Thread-Index: AQHP/3dbosJys//B9EKh88oBvcseuJyKJjMAgAAGxICAAS2I0A== Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:44:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFCA@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <cc8bde1674e44dfd8e0e31fd59fd3a11@BLUPR05MB386.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> In-Reply-To: <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFCANKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/jx4fq06wAiFveUljs0vJkSV-lfg Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:44:27 -0000 --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFCANKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgUm9uLA0KDQpBcyBmb3IgMSksIHdvdWxkIHlvdSBwbGVhc2UgZ2l2ZSBhIHJlYWwgdXNlIGNh c2Ugd2hlcmUgU0ZDIFBhdGggSUQgd291bGQgYmUgdXNlZCBhcyBhIGtleSBmb3IgbG9jYWwgcG9s 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nNuA0QYNgNrn for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub021-ca-6.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-6.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.56.71]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D7DC1A9106 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-6.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.92]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:53:09 -0800 From: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com> To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "mikebianc@aol.com" <mikebianc@aol.com>, "sankarr@juniper.net" <sankarr@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Thread-Index: AQHP/3dbosJys//B9EKh88oBvcseuJyKJjMAgAAGxICAAS2I0IAAAR4b Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:53:08 +0000 Message-ID: <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> References: <cc8bde1674e44dfd8e0e31fd59fd3a11@BLUPR05MB386.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFCA@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFCA@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [98.229.164.153] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7MBX021W3CA2exch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/ysA02YtZeT28Xe0ayhgl7IeIQOY Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:53:13 -0000 --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xiaohu, Consider an SF for HTTP content filtering. Let's say that there is a sing= le instance of a server that is capable of providing either pre-adolescent = or adolescent content filtering. From an SFC perspective, we can model th= is as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adolescent= and content-filter-adolescent. But, these 2 logical service functions ar= e realized by exactly 1 running instance of an entity that is capable of pe= rforming content filtering. Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre= -adolescent-content-filter, firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {adolesce= nt-content-filter, firewall}. The SFF would know that both logical functi= ons are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is not necessary = to use 2 distinct network locators). When packets are progressed from SFF= to the server, it can know whether to provide pre-adolescent or adolescent= content filtering based on the SFP ID. Thanks. Ron ________________________________ From: Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM To: Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi Ron, As for 1), would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be= used as a key for local policy selection? Best regards, Xiaohu From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Parker Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM To: mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Sankar, I think the most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulat= ion knowledge would be: a) Use the SFC Path ID as a key for local policy selection b) Read and insert metadata c) Participate in some SFC OAM procedures While it could also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in th= e sequence, I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) = above =96 drive the local behavior based on the Path ID. Ron From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mikebianc@aol.com<mail= to:mikebianc@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM To: sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness So far, the only references I've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aw= are SFs and discussions around proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a). As the SF = can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-a= ware. Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e.g= . most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification. I haven't seen anything in the drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of th= e options for that matter). There is also a proposed mechanism for the SF to provide feedback to influe= nce classification. see: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03 ________________________________ From: sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3c= sankarr@juniper.net>> To: sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 Subject: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi, I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts. Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed. A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt) To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP. The possible scenarios I see are a) SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participating in. Many= existing SF functions may fall in this category. b) SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simple constru= ct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interface), where = SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the left interfac= e will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of= SFP beyond following the rules of the simple construct (interface-pair). c) SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a special head= er (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating in and refl= ecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets. d) SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can pick an SFC= (opaque value) through policy decisions. e) SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence the selectio= n of next SF through policy decisions. The question I have is - Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF in SFC? Sho= uld just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient? If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it. Thanks, Sankar _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html dir=3D"ltr"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> <style>=0A= <!--=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:\5B8B \4F53 }=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:"Cambria Math"}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:Calibri}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:Tahoma}=0A= p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal=0A= {margin:0cm;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:12.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= a:link, span.MsoHyperlink=0A= {color:blue;=0A= text-decoration:underline}=0A= a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed=0A= {color:purple;=0A= text-decoration:underline}=0A= p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate=0A= {margin:0cm;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:9.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph=0A= {margin-top:0cm;=0A= margin-right:0cm;=0A= margin-bottom:0cm;=0A= margin-left:36.0pt;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:12.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= span.EmailStyle18=0A= {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=0A= color:#1F497D}=0A= span.Char=0A= {font-family:\5B8B \4F53 }=0A= span.EmailStyle21=0A= {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=0A= color:#1F497D}=0A= .MsoChpDefault=0A= {font-size:10.0pt}=0A= @page WordSection1=0A= {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt}=0A= -->=0A= </style><style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style> </head> <body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0= "> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: = 10pt;">Xiaohu, <div><br> </div> <div>Consider an SF for HTTP content filtering.   Let's say that there= is a single instance of a server that is capable of providing either pre-a= dolescent or adolescent content filtering.   From an SFC perspective, = we can model this as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adolescent and content-filter-adolescent. =   But, these 2 logical service functions are realized by exactly 1 run= ning instance of an entity that is capable of performing content filtering.=   Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre-adolescent-content-filter, firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {= adolescent-content-filter, firewall}.   The SFF would know that both l= ogical functions are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is n= ot necessary to use 2 distinct network locators).   When packets are progressed from SFF to the server, it c= an know whether to provide pre-adolescent or adolescent content filtering b= ased on the SFP ID.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Thanks.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>   Ron</div> <div><br> <div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px= "> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRpF121182" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si= ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net<br> <b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">As for 1= ), would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be used as= a key for local policy selection? </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best reg= ards,</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Xiaohu</= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0c= m 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c= m 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; f= ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",&= quot;sans-serif""> sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Parker<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM<br> <b>To:</b> mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net<br> <b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Sankar,<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">I think = the most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulation know= ledge would be:</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans= -serif"; color:#1F497D">a)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si= ze:7.0pt; color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Use the SFC Path ID as a= key for local policy selection</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans= -serif"; color:#1F497D">b)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si= ze:7.0pt; color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Read and insert metadata= </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans= -serif"; color:#1F497D">c)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si= ze:7.0pt; color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Participate in some SFC = OAM procedures</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">While it= could also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in the sequen= ce, I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) above =96 drive the local behavior based on the Path ID.</span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> &n= bsp; Ron</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"= style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri= f"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; f= ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><spa= n lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri"= ,"sans-serif""> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" targ= et=3D"_blank">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">= mikebianc@aol.com</a><br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr= @juniper.net</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"> </span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"">So far, the only references I've seen to S= F awareness has been wrt fully aware SFs and discussions around proxies for= SFC-unaware SFs (a).  As the SF can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-aware.  Eac= h SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e.g. most SFC= -aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New""> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"">I haven't seen anything in the drafts that= would prohibit (e) (or any of the options for that matter).</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New""> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"">There is also a proposed mechanism for the= SF to provide feedback to influence classification.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New""> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"">see: <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03" target= =3D"_blank"> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03</a></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""> </spa= n></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""> </spa= n></p> <div style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New&qu= ot;"> <hr size=3D"1" width=3D"100%" noshade=3D"" align=3D"center" style=3D"color:= #999999"> </span></div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">From: </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quo= t;Courier New""><a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3csankarr@junipe= r.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.net</a>>= <br> <b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"= >sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org</a>><br> <b>Sent: </b>Thursday, November 13, 2014<br> <b>Subject: </b>[sfc] SF and SFC awareness<br> <br> <br> <br> Hi,<br> <br> I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts.<= br> <br> Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed.<br> <br> A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt)<b= r> <br> To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP.<br> <br> The possible scenarios I see are<br> <br> a)    SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participatin= g in. Many existing SF functions may fall in this category.<br> <br> b)    SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simp= le construct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interfac= e), where SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the lef= t interface will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of SFP beyond following the rules o= f the simple construct (interface-pair).<br> <br> c)    SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a sp= ecial header (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating i= n and reflecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets.<br> <br> d)    SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can p= ick an SFC (opaque value) through policy decisions. <br> <br> e)    SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence th= e selection of next SF through policy decisions. <br> <br> The question I have is<br> <br> -    Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF i= n SFC? Should just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient?<br> <br> <br> If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it.<= br> <br> Thanks,<br> <br> Sankar<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> sfc mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7MBX021W3CA2exch_-- From nobody Thu Dec 11 18:01:07 2014 Return-Path: <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12CA1A9145 for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:01:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bIX25_kqc295 for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:01:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13B641A9143 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BPY57405; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:00:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.33) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:00:57 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.199]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:00:53 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> To: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, "mikebianc@aol.com" <mikebianc@aol.com>, "sankarr@juniper.net" <sankarr@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Thread-Index: AQHP/3dbosJys//B9EKh88oBvcseuJyKJjMAgAAGxICAAS2I0IAAAR4bgAADTVA= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:00:52 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFE0@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <cc8bde1674e44dfd8e0e31fd59fd3a11@BLUPR05MB386.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFCA@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> In-Reply-To: <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFE0NKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/XHthj4eeO2D5mAOWntEfX7mUnUE Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:01:06 -0000 --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFE0NKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, Why not specify the following 2 logical service functions as two separate S= Fs? In this way, SFs are SFP-irrelevant and therefore they could be legacy = SFs. Best regards, Xiaohu From: Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 9:53 AM To: Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Xiaohu, Consider an SF for HTTP content filtering. Let's say that there is a sing= le instance of a server that is capable of providing either pre-adolescent = or adolescent content filtering. From an SFC perspective, we can model th= is as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adolescent= and content-filter-adolescent. But, these 2 logical service functions ar= e realized by exactly 1 running instance of an entity that is capable of pe= rforming content filtering. Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre= -adolescent-content-filter, firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {adolesce= nt-content-filter, firewall}. The SFF would know that both logical functi= ons are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is not necessary = to use 2 distinct network locators). When packets are progressed from SFF= to the server, it can know whether to provide pre-adolescent or adolescent= content filtering based on the SFP ID. Thanks. Ron ________________________________ From: Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM To: Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@junipe= r.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi Ron, As for 1), would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be= used as a key for local policy selection? Best regards, Xiaohu From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Parker Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM To: mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@juniper.net<mailto= :sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Sankar, I think the most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulat= ion knowledge would be: a) Use the SFC Path ID as a key for local policy selection b) Read and insert metadata c) Participate in some SFC OAM procedures While it could also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in th= e sequence, I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) = above - drive the local behavior based on the Path ID. Ron From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mikebianc@aol.com<mail= to:mikebianc@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM To: sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness So far, the only references I've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aw= are SFs and discussions around proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a). As the SF = can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-a= ware. Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e.g= . most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification. I haven't seen anything in the drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of th= e options for that matter). There is also a proposed mechanism for the SF to provide feedback to influe= nce classification. see: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03 ________________________________ From: sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3c= sankarr@juniper.net>> To: sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 Subject: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi, I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts. Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed. A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt) To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP. The possible scenarios I see are a) SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participating in. Many= existing SF functions may fall in this category. b) SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simple constru= ct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interface), where = SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the left interfac= e will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of= SFP beyond following the rules of the simple construct (interface-pair). c) SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a special head= er (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating in and refl= ecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets. d) SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can pick an SFC= (opaque value) through policy decisions. e) SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence the selectio= n of next SF through policy decisions. The question I have is - Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF in SFC? Sho= uld just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient? If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it. Thanks, Sankar _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFE0NKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:SimSun; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:SimSun; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} @font-face {font-family:"\5B8B \4F53";} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"\6279\6CE8\6846\6587\672C Char"; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph {mso-style-priority:34; margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm; margin-left:36.0pt; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} span.Char {mso-style-name:"\6279\6CE8\6846\6587\672C Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:\6279\6CE8\6846\6587\672C; font-family:SimSun;} p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault {mso-style-name:msochpdefault; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} span.emailstyle18 {mso-style-name:emailstyle18; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.char0 {mso-style-name:char; font-family:"\5B8B \4F53";} span.emailstyle21 {mso-style-name:emailstyle21; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.EmailStyle24 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why not sp= ecify the following 2 logical service functions as two separate SFs? In thi= s way, SFs are SFP-irrelevant and therefore they could be legacy SFs.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regar= ds,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Xiaohu<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",&qu= ot;sans-serif""> Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 12, 2014 9:53 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net<br> <b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Xiaohu, <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Consider an S= F for HTTP content filtering.   Let's say that there is a single insta= nce of a server that is capable of providing either pre-adolescent or adolescent content filtering.   From an SFC perspective, we can mo= del this as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adol= escent and content-filter-adolescent.   But, these 2 logical service f= unctions are realized by exactly 1 running instance of an entity that is capable of performing content filtering. &nb= sp; Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre-adolescent-content-filter= , firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {adolescent-content-filter, firewal= l}.   The SFF would know that both logical functions are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is not nec= essary to use 2 distinct network locators).   When packets are progres= sed from SFF to the server, it can know whether to provide pre-adolescent o= r adolescent content filtering based on the SFP ID.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks.<o:p><= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">   = Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </span></div> <div id=3D"divRpF121182"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri= f";color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"= > Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ron Parker; <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com">mikebianc@aol.c= om</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net"> sankarr@juniper.net</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,</s= pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As for 1),= would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be used as a= key for local policy selection? </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regar= ds,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Xiaohu</sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</spa= n></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho= ma","sans-serif";color:black"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bo= unces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Parker<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com">mikebianc@aol.com</a>; <a h= ref=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net"> sankarr@juniper.net</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sankar,</s= pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think th= e most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulation knowle= dge would be:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p><= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-= serif";color:#1F497D">a)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size= :7.0pt;color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Use the SFC Path ID as a k= ey for local policy selection</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:bla= ck"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-= serif";color:#1F497D">b)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size= :7.0pt;color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Read and insert metadata</= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-= serif";color:#1F497D">c)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size= :7.0pt;color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Participate in some SFC OA= M procedures</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">While it c= ould also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in the sequence= , I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) above – drive the local behavior based on the Path ID.</span><spa= n lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> &nbs= p; Ron</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"= style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif= ";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:blac= k"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</sp= an></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:black"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-= bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">= mikebianc@aol.com</a><br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr= @juniper.net</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <o:= p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black">So far, the only references I'v= e seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aware SFs and discussions around = proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a).  As the SF can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-awar= e.  Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e= .g. most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification.</span>= <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black">I haven't seen anything in the = drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of the options for that matter).</sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black">There is also a proposed mechan= ism for the SF to provide feedback to influence classification.</span><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black">see: <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03" target= =3D"_blank"> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03</a></span><span la= ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">=  </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">=  </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><= /p> <div style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New&quo= t;;color:black"> <hr size=3D"1" width=3D"100%" noshade=3D"" style=3D"color:#999999" align=3D= "center"> </span></div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:blac= k">From: </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Courier New";color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3csan= karr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.= net</a>><br> <b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"= >sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org</a>><br> <b>Sent: </b>Thursday, November 13, 2014<br> <b>Subject: </b>[sfc] SF and SFC awareness<br> <br> <br> <br> Hi,<br> <br> I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts.<= br> <br> Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed.<br> <br> A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt)<b= r> <br> To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP.<br> <br> The possible scenarios I see are<br> <br> a)    SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participatin= g in. Many existing SF functions may fall in this category.<br> <br> b)    SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simp= le construct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interfac= e), where SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the lef= t interface will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of SFP beyond following the rules o= f the simple construct (interface-pair).<br> <br> c)    SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a sp= ecial header (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating i= n and reflecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets.<br> <br> d)    SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can p= ick an SFC (opaque value) through policy decisions. <br> <br> e)    SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence th= e selection of next SF through policy decisions. <br> <br> The question I have is<br> <br> -    Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF i= n SFC? Should just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient?<br> <br> <br> If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it.<= br> <br> Thanks,<br> <br> Sankar<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> sfc mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style= =3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFE0NKGEML512MBSchi_-- From nobody Thu Dec 11 18:05:53 2014 Return-Path: <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66FA1A914C for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:05:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gjbpm_CzrWQU for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub021-ca-2.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-2.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.22.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8F4C1A914A for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:05:47 -0800 From: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com> To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "mikebianc@aol.com" <mikebianc@aol.com>, "sankarr@juniper.net" <sankarr@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Thread-Index: AQHP/3dbosJys//B9EKh88oBvcseuJyKJjMAgAAGxICAAS2I0IAAAR4bgAADTVCAAAFd5w== Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:05:48 +0000 Message-ID: <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7F65@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> References: <cc8bde1674e44dfd8e0e31fd59fd3a11@BLUPR05MB386.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFCA@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFE0@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFE0@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [98.229.164.153] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7F65MBX021W3CA2exch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/Y93zYwWyOjkw_to8mBJ1leSEcgM Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:05:52 -0000 --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7F65MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The realization of multiple SF's by the same server is neither required nor= prohibited. In the case where one chooses to support multiple SF's with = the same network locator, the SFP ID would allow determination of which log= ical SF is being invoked. Whether you choose to think of this as 2 distin= ct policies of the same generic function or whether you think of this as 2 = unrelated SF's is simply a matter of perspective. Personally, I find it u= seful to consider that a generalized SF can be modeled as multiple logical = SF's (each visible to SFC) that differ only in their policy settings. Ron ________________________________ From: sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com= ] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:00 PM To: Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi Ron, Why not specify the following 2 logical service functions as two separate S= Fs? In this way, SFs are SFP-irrelevant and therefore they could be legacy = SFs. Best regards, Xiaohu From: Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 9:53 AM To: Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Xiaohu, Consider an SF for HTTP content filtering. Let's say that there is a sing= le instance of a server that is capable of providing either pre-adolescent = or adolescent content filtering. From an SFC perspective, we can model th= is as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adolescent= and content-filter-adolescent. But, these 2 logical service functions ar= e realized by exactly 1 running instance of an entity that is capable of pe= rforming content filtering. Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre= -adolescent-content-filter, firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {adolesce= nt-content-filter, firewall}. The SFF would know that both logical functi= ons are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is not necessary = to use 2 distinct network locators). When packets are progressed from SFF= to the server, it can know whether to provide pre-adolescent or adolescent= content filtering based on the SFP ID. Thanks. Ron ________________________________ From: Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM To: Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@junipe= r.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi Ron, As for 1), would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be= used as a key for local policy selection? Best regards, Xiaohu From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Parker Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM To: mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@juniper.net<mailto= :sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Sankar, I think the most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulat= ion knowledge would be: a) Use the SFC Path ID as a key for local policy selection b) Read and insert metadata c) Participate in some SFC OAM procedures While it could also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in th= e sequence, I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) = above =96 drive the local behavior based on the Path ID. Ron From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mikebianc@aol.com<mail= to:mikebianc@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM To: sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness So far, the only references I've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aw= are SFs and discussions around proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a). As the SF = can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-a= ware. Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e.g= . most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification. I haven't seen anything in the drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of th= e options for that matter). There is also a proposed mechanism for the SF to provide feedback to influe= nce classification. see: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03 ________________________________ From: sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3c= sankarr@juniper.net>> To: sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 Subject: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi, I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts. Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed. A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt) To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP. The possible scenarios I see are a) SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participating in. Many= existing SF functions may fall in this category. b) SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simple constru= ct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interface), where = SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the left interfac= e will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of= SFP beyond following the rules of the simple construct (interface-pair). c) SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a special head= er (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating in and refl= ecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets. d) SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can pick an SFC= (opaque value) through policy decisions. e) SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence the selectio= n of next SF through policy decisions. The question I have is - Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF in SFC? Sho= uld just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient? If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it. Thanks, Sankar _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7F65MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html dir=3D"ltr"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> <style>=0A= <!--=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:SimSun}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:"Cambria Math"}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:Calibri}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:Tahoma}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:SimSun}=0A= p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal=0A= {margin:0cm;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:12.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= a:link, span.MsoHyperlink=0A= {color:blue;=0A= text-decoration:underline}=0A= a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed=0A= {color:purple;=0A= text-decoration:underline}=0A= p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate=0A= {margin:0cm;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:9.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph=0A= {margin-top:0cm;=0A= margin-right:0cm;=0A= margin-bottom:0cm;=0A= margin-left:36.0pt;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:12.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= span.Char=0A= {font-family:SimSun}=0A= p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault=0A= {margin-right:0cm;=0A= margin-left:0cm;=0A= font-size:10.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= span.emailstyle18=0A= {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=0A= color:#1F497D}=0A= span.emailstyle21=0A= {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=0A= color:#1F497D}=0A= span.EmailStyle24=0A= {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=0A= color:#1F497D}=0A= .MsoChpDefault=0A= {font-size:10.0pt}=0A= @page WordSection1=0A= {margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt}=0A= -->=0A= </style><style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style> </head> <body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0= "> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: = 10pt;">The realization of multiple SF's by the same server is neither requi= red nor prohibited.   In the case where one chooses to support multipl= e SF's with the same network locator, the SFP ID would allow determination of which logical SF is being invoked. &nb= sp; Whether you choose to think of this as 2 distinct policies of the same = generic function or whether you think of this as 2 unrelated SF's is simply= a matter of perspective.   Personally, I find it useful to consider that a generalized SF can be modeled as multi= ple logical SF's (each visible to SFC) that differ only in their policy set= tings. <div><br> </div> <div>   Ron</div> <div><br> <div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px= "> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRpF642600" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si= ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behal= f of Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:00 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net<br> <b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Why not = specify the following 2 logical service functions as two separate SFs? In t= his way, SFs are SFP-irrelevant and therefore they could be legacy SFs.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best reg= ards,</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Xiaohu</= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0c= m 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c= m 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; f= ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",&= quot;sans-serif""> Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 12, 2014 9:53 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net<br> <b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"> </span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">Xiaohu, </span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">Consider an= SF for HTTP content filtering.   Let's say that there is a single ins= tance of a server that is capable of providing either pre-adolescent or adolescent content filtering.   From an SFC perspective, we can mo= del this as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adol= escent and content-filter-adolescent.   But, these 2 logical service f= unctions are realized by exactly 1 running instance of an entity that is capable of performing content filtering. &nb= sp; Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre-adolescent-content-filter= , firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {adolescent-content-filter, firewal= l}.   The SFF would know that both logical functions are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is not nec= essary to use 2 distinct network locators).   When packets are progres= sed from SFF to the server, it can know whether to provide pre-adolescent o= r adolescent content filtering based on the SFP ID.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">Thanks.</sp= an></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">  &nbs= p;Ron</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </span></div> <div id=3D"divRpF121182"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser= if"; color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:bl= ack"> Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ron Parker; <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blan= k">mikebianc@aol.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.ne= t</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,<= /span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">As for 1= ), would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be used as= a key for local policy selection? </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best reg= ards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Xiaohu</= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0c= m 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c= m 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; f= ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</s= pan></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"T= ahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sf= c-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Parker<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">mikebianc= @aol.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.ne= t</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> </s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Sankar,<= /span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">I think = the most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulation know= ledge would be:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans= -serif"; color:#1F497D">a)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si= ze:7.0pt; color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Use the SFC Path ID as a= key for local policy selection</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:b= lack"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans= -serif"; color:#1F497D">b)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si= ze:7.0pt; color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Read and insert metadata= </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans= -serif"; color:#1F497D">c)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si= ze:7.0pt; color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Participate in some SFC = OAM procedures</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">While it= could also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in the sequen= ce, I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) above =96 drive the local behavior based on the Path ID.</span><sp= an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> &n= bsp; Ron</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"= style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri= f"; color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:bl= ack"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; f= ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</= span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"= Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:= sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">= mikebianc@aol.com</a><br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr= @juniper.net</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> </s= pan></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black">So far, the only references I= 've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aware SFs and discussions aroun= d proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a).  As the SF can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-awar= e.  Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e= .g. most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification.</span>= <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN= -US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black">I haven't seen anything in th= e drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of the options for that matter).</= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN= -US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black">There is also a proposed mech= anism for the SF to provide feedback to influence classification.</span><sp= an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN= -US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black">see: <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03" target= =3D"_blank"> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03</a></span><span la= ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black= "> </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black= "> </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <div style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New&qu= ot;; color:black"> <hr size=3D"1" width=3D"100%" noshade=3D"" align=3D"center" style=3D"color:= #999999"> </span></div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:bl= ack">From: </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quo= t;Courier New"; color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3cs= ankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@junipe= r.net</a>><br> <b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"= >sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org</a>><br> <b>Sent: </b>Thursday, November 13, 2014<br> <b>Subject: </b>[sfc] SF and SFC awareness<br> <br> <br> <br> Hi,<br> <br> I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts.<= br> <br> Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed.<br> <br> A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt)<b= r> <br> To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP.<br> <br> The possible scenarios I see are<br> <br> a)    SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participatin= g in. Many existing SF functions may fall in this category.<br> <br> b)    SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simp= le construct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interfac= e), where SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the lef= t interface will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of SFP beyond following the rules o= f the simple construct (interface-pair).<br> <br> c)    SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a sp= ecial header (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating i= n and reflecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets.<br> <br> d)    SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can p= ick an SFC (opaque value) through policy decisions. <br> <br> e)    SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence th= e selection of next SF through policy decisions. <br> <br> The question I have is<br> <br> -    Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF i= n SFC? Should just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient?<br> <br> <br> If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it.<= br> <br> Thanks,<br> <br> Sankar<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> sfc mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style= =3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7F65MBX021W3CA2exch_-- From nobody Thu Dec 11 18:23:29 2014 Return-Path: <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FC281A9150 for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:23:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uBrbrsd7F7np for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:23:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C89D1A9106 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BPY58569; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:23:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:23:17 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.199]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:23:12 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> To: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, "mikebianc@aol.com" <mikebianc@aol.com>, "sankarr@juniper.net" <sankarr@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Thread-Index: AQHP/3dbosJys//B9EKh88oBvcseuJyKJjMAgAAGxICAAS2I0IAAAR4bgAADTVCAAAFd54AAAXcA Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:23:11 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFF8@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <cc8bde1674e44dfd8e0e31fd59fd3a11@BLUPR05MB386.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFCA@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFE0@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7F65@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> In-Reply-To: <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7F65@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFF8NKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/WHwe2X5fSKe5AAncOwCY3NdwwsQ Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:23:26 -0000 --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFF8NKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, IMHO, if there is no strong reason for using a single locator for multiple = SFs, we'd better avoid that. Otherwise, it makes the SFC architecture a lit= tle bit ugly, for instance, it makes the SF to unnecessarily have some func= tionalities of the SFF (e.g., using the SFP ID to determine the next logica= l SF) otherwise and makes the legacy SFs inapplicable anymore. In other wor= ds, we should always consider how to make the legacy SFs work well in the S= FC architecture. Best regards, Xiaohu From: Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 10:06 AM To: Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness The realization of multiple SF's by the same server is neither required nor= prohibited. In the case where one chooses to support multiple SF's with = the same network locator, the SFP ID would allow determination of which log= ical SF is being invoked. Whether you choose to think of this as 2 distin= ct policies of the same generic function or whether you think of this as 2 = unrelated SF's is simply a matter of perspective. Personally, I find it u= seful to consider that a generalized SF can be modeled as multiple logical = SF's (each visible to SFC) that differ only in their policy settings. Ron ________________________________ From: sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com= ] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:00 PM To: Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@junipe= r.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi Ron, Why not specify the following 2 logical service functions as two separate S= Fs? In this way, SFs are SFP-irrelevant and therefore they could be legacy = SFs. Best regards, Xiaohu From: Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 9:53 AM To: Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@juniper.= net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Xiaohu, Consider an SF for HTTP content filtering. Let's say that there is a sing= le instance of a server that is capable of providing either pre-adolescent = or adolescent content filtering. From an SFC perspective, we can model th= is as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adolescent= and content-filter-adolescent. But, these 2 logical service functions ar= e realized by exactly 1 running instance of an entity that is capable of pe= rforming content filtering. Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre= -adolescent-content-filter, firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {adolesce= nt-content-filter, firewall}. The SFF would know that both logical functi= ons are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is not necessary = to use 2 distinct network locators). When packets are progressed from SFF= to the server, it can know whether to provide pre-adolescent or adolescent= content filtering based on the SFP ID. Thanks. Ron ________________________________ From: Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM To: Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@junipe= r.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi Ron, As for 1), would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be= used as a key for local policy selection? Best regards, Xiaohu From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Parker Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM To: mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@juniper.net<mailto= :sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Sankar, I think the most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulat= ion knowledge would be: a) Use the SFC Path ID as a key for local policy selection b) Read and insert metadata c) Participate in some SFC OAM procedures While it could also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in th= e sequence, I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) = above - drive the local behavior based on the Path ID. Ron From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mikebianc@aol.com<mail= to:mikebianc@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM To: sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness So far, the only references I've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aw= are SFs and discussions around proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a). As the SF = can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-a= ware. Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e.g= . most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification. I haven't seen anything in the drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of th= e options for that matter). There is also a proposed mechanism for the SF to provide feedback to influe= nce classification. see: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03 ________________________________ From: sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3c= sankarr@juniper.net>> To: sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 Subject: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi, I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts. Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed. A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt) To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP. The possible scenarios I see are a) SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participating in. Many= existing SF functions may fall in this category. b) SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simple constru= ct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interface), where = SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the left interfac= e will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of= SFP beyond following the rules of the simple construct (interface-pair). c) SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a special head= er (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating in and refl= ecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets. d) SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can pick an SFC= (opaque value) through policy decisions. e) SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence the selectio= n of next SF through policy decisions. The question I have is - Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF in SFC? Sho= uld just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient? If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it. Thanks, Sankar _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFF8NKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:SimSun; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:SimSun; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"\6279\6CE8\6846\6587\672C Char"; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph {mso-style-priority:34; margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm; margin-left:36.0pt; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} span.Char {mso-style-name:"\6279\6CE8\6846\6587\672C Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:\6279\6CE8\6846\6587\672C; font-family:SimSun;} p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault {mso-style-name:msochpdefault; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} span.char0 {mso-style-name:char; font-family:SimSun;} span.emailstyle18 {mso-style-name:emailstyle18; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.emailstyle21 {mso-style-name:emailstyle21; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.emailstyle24 {mso-style-name:emailstyle24; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.EmailStyle25 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">IMHO, if t= here is no strong reason for using a single locator for multiple SFs, we= 217;d better avoid that. Otherwise, it makes the SFC architecture a little bit ugly, for instance, it makes the SF to unnecessarily have som= e functionalities of the SFF (e.g., using the SFP ID to determine the next = logical SF) otherwise and makes the legacy SFs inapplicable anymore. In oth= er words, we should always consider how to make the legacy SFs work well in the SFC architecture.<o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regar= ds,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Xiaohu<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",&qu= ot;sans-serif""> Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 12, 2014 10:06 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net<br> <b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">The realizati= on of multiple SF's by the same server is neither required nor prohibited. =   In the case where one chooses to support multiple SF's with the same network locator, the SFP ID would allow determination of which lo= gical SF is being invoked.   Whether you choose to think of this as 2 = distinct policies of the same generic function or whether you think of this= as 2 unrelated SF's is simply a matter of perspective.   Personally, I find it useful to consider that a gen= eralized SF can be modeled as multiple logical SF's (each visible to SFC) t= hat differ only in their policy settings. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">   = Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </span></div> <div id=3D"divRpF642600"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri= f";color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"= > sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:00 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ron Parker; <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com">mikebianc@aol.c= om</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net"> sankarr@juniper.net</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,</s= pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why not sp= ecify the following 2 logical service functions as two separate SFs? In thi= s way, SFs are SFP-irrelevant and therefore they could be legacy SFs.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regar= ds,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Xiaohu</sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</spa= n></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho= ma","sans-serif";color:black"> Ron Parker [<a href=3D"mailto= :Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com">mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com</a= >] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 12, 2014 9:53 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Xuxiaohu; <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com">mikebianc@aol.com= </a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net"> sankarr@juniper.net</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <o:= p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Xiaohu, </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span>= <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Consider an S= F for HTTP content filtering.   Let's say that there is a single insta= nce of a server that is capable of providing either pre-adolescent or adolescent content filtering.   From an SFC perspective, we can mo= del this as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adol= escent and content-filter-adolescent.   But, these 2 logical service f= unctions are realized by exactly 1 running instance of an entity that is capable of performing content filtering. &nb= sp; Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre-adolescent-content-filter= , firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {adolescent-content-filter, firewal= l}.   The SFF would know that both logical functions are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is not nec= essary to use 2 distinct network locators).   When packets are progres= sed from SFF to the server, it can know whether to provide pre-adolescent o= r adolescent content filtering based on the SFP ID.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p= ></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span>= <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks.</span= ><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span>= <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">   = Ron</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span>= <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </span></div> <div id=3D"divRpF121182"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri= f";color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"= > Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ron Parker; <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blan= k">mikebianc@aol.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.ne= t</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,</s= pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As for 1),= would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be used as a= key for local policy selection? </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regar= ds,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Xiaohu</sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</spa= n></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho= ma","sans-serif";color:black"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bo= unces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Parker<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">mikebianc= @aol.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.ne= t</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sankar,</s= pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think th= e most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulation knowle= dge would be:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p><= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-= serif";color:#1F497D">a)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size= :7.0pt;color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Use the SFC Path ID as a k= ey for local policy selection</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:bla= ck"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-= serif";color:#1F497D">b)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size= :7.0pt;color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Read and insert metadata</= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-= serif";color:#1F497D">c)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size= :7.0pt;color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Participate in some SFC OA= M procedures</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">While it c= ould also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in the sequence= , I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) above – drive the local behavior based on the Path ID.</span><spa= n lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> &nbs= p; Ron</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"= style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif= ";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:blac= k"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</sp= an></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:black"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-= bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">= mikebianc@aol.com</a><br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr= @juniper.net</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <o:= p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black">So far, the only references I'v= e seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aware SFs and discussions around = proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a).  As the SF can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-awar= e.  Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e= .g. most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification.</span>= <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black">I haven't seen anything in the = drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of the options for that matter).</sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black">There is also a proposed mechan= ism for the SF to provide feedback to influence classification.</span><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";color:black">see: <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03" target= =3D"_blank"> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03</a></span><span la= ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">=  </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">=  </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><= /p> <div style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New&quo= t;;color:black"> <hr size=3D"1" width=3D"100%" noshade=3D"" style=3D"color:#999999" align=3D= "center"> </span></div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:blac= k">From: </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Courier New";color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3csan= karr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.= net</a>><br> <b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"= >sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org</a>><br> <b>Sent: </b>Thursday, November 13, 2014<br> <b>Subject: </b>[sfc] SF and SFC awareness<br> <br> <br> <br> Hi,<br> <br> I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts.<= br> <br> Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed.<br> <br> A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt)<b= r> <br> To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP.<br> <br> The possible scenarios I see are<br> <br> a)    SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participatin= g in. Many existing SF functions may fall in this category.<br> <br> b)    SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simp= le construct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interfac= e), where SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the lef= t interface will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of SFP beyond following the rules o= f the simple construct (interface-pair).<br> <br> c)    SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a sp= ecial header (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating i= n and reflecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets.<br> <br> d)    SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can p= ick an SFC (opaque value) through policy decisions. <br> <br> e)    SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence th= e selection of next SF through policy decisions. <br> <br> The question I have is<br> <br> -    Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF i= n SFC? Should just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient?<br> <br> <br> If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it.<= br> <br> Thanks,<br> <br> Sankar<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> sfc mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style= =3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFF8NKGEML512MBSchi_-- From nobody Thu Dec 11 18:47:18 2014 Return-Path: <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2E61A916C for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:47:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e0pVBlo6vZXC for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub021-ca-8.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-8.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.56.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F2801A9162 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-8.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.112]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:47:12 -0800 From: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com> To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "mikebianc@aol.com" <mikebianc@aol.com>, "sankarr@juniper.net" <sankarr@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Thread-Index: AQHP/3dbosJys//B9EKh88oBvcseuJyKJjMAgAAGxICAAS2I0IAAAR4bgAADTVCAAAFd54AAAXcAgAAKYBs= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:47:11 +0000 Message-ID: <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A8036@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> References: <cc8bde1674e44dfd8e0e31fd59fd3a11@BLUPR05MB386.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A6B04@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFCA@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7ED7@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFE0@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A7F65@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFF8@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082EBFF8@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [98.229.164.153] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A8036MBX021W3CA2exch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/uKlTawwyL5FZykIchn4G88i43XM Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:47:17 -0000 --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A8036MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xiaohu, Whether the justification I provided rises to the level of a "strong reason= " is a matter of opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours. I'll also point you to the SF definition in the architecture spec (https://= tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02): Service Function (SF): A function that is responsible for specific treatment of received packets. A Service Function can act at various layers of a protocol stack (e.g., at the network layer or other OSI layers). As a logical component, a Service Function can be realized as a virtual element or be embedded in a physical network element. One or multiple Service Functions can be embedded in the same network element. Ron ________________________________ From: sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com= ] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:23 PM To: Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi Ron, IMHO, if there is no strong reason for using a single locator for multiple = SFs, we=92d better avoid that. Otherwise, it makes the SFC architecture a l= ittle bit ugly, for instance, it makes the SF to unnecessarily have some fu= nctionalities of the SFF (e.g., using the SFP ID to determine the next logi= cal SF) otherwise and makes the legacy SFs inapplicable anymore. In other w= ords, we should always consider how to make the legacy SFs work well in the= SFC architecture. Best regards, Xiaohu From: Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 10:06 AM To: Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness The realization of multiple SF's by the same server is neither required nor= prohibited. In the case where one chooses to support multiple SF's with = the same network locator, the SFP ID would allow determination of which log= ical SF is being invoked. Whether you choose to think of this as 2 distin= ct policies of the same generic function or whether you think of this as 2 = unrelated SF's is simply a matter of perspective. Personally, I find it u= seful to consider that a generalized SF can be modeled as multiple logical = SF's (each visible to SFC) that differ only in their policy settings. Ron ________________________________ From: sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com= ] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:00 PM To: Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@junipe= r.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi Ron, Why not specify the following 2 logical service functions as two separate S= Fs? In this way, SFs are SFP-irrelevant and therefore they could be legacy = SFs. Best regards, Xiaohu From: Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 9:53 AM To: Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@juniper.= net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Xiaohu, Consider an SF for HTTP content filtering. Let's say that there is a sing= le instance of a server that is capable of providing either pre-adolescent = or adolescent content filtering. From an SFC perspective, we can model th= is as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adolescent= and content-filter-adolescent. But, these 2 logical service functions ar= e realized by exactly 1 running instance of an entity that is capable of pe= rforming content filtering. Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre= -adolescent-content-filter, firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {adolesce= nt-content-filter, firewall}. The SFF would know that both logical functi= ons are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is not necessary = to use 2 distinct network locators). When packets are progressed from SFF= to the server, it can know whether to provide pre-adolescent or adolescent= content filtering based on the SFP ID. Thanks. Ron ________________________________ From: Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM To: Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@junipe= r.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi Ron, As for 1), would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be= used as a key for local policy selection? Best regards, Xiaohu From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Parker Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM To: mikebianc@aol.com<mailto:mikebianc@aol.com>; sankarr@juniper.net<mailto= :sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Sankar, I think the most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulat= ion knowledge would be: a) Use the SFC Path ID as a key for local policy selection b) Read and insert metadata c) Participate in some SFC OAM procedures While it could also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in th= e sequence, I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) = above =96 drive the local behavior based on the Path ID. Ron From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mikebianc@aol.com<mail= to:mikebianc@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM To: sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net> Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness So far, the only references I've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aw= are SFs and discussions around proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a). As the SF = can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-a= ware. Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e.g= . most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification. I haven't seen anything in the drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of th= e options for that matter). There is also a proposed mechanism for the SF to provide feedback to influe= nce classification. see: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03 ________________________________ From: sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.net<mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3c= sankarr@juniper.net>> To: sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 Subject: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness Hi, I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts. Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed. A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt) To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP. The possible scenarios I see are a) SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participating in. Many= existing SF functions may fall in this category. b) SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simple constru= ct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interface), where = SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the left interfac= e will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of= SFP beyond following the rules of the simple construct (interface-pair). c) SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a special head= er (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating in and refl= ecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets. d) SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can pick an SFC= (opaque value) through policy decisions. e) SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence the selectio= n of next SF through policy decisions. The question I have is - Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF in SFC? Sho= uld just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient? If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it. Thanks, Sankar _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A8036MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html dir=3D"ltr"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> <style>=0A= <!--=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:SimSun}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:"Cambria Math"}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:Calibri}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:Tahoma}=0A= @font-face=0A= {font-family:SimSun}=0A= p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal=0A= {margin:0cm;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:12.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= a:link, span.MsoHyperlink=0A= {color:blue;=0A= text-decoration:underline}=0A= a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed=0A= {color:purple;=0A= text-decoration:underline}=0A= p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate=0A= {margin:0cm;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:9.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph=0A= {margin-top:0cm;=0A= margin-right:0cm;=0A= margin-bottom:0cm;=0A= margin-left:36.0pt;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:12.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= span.Char=0A= {font-family:SimSun}=0A= p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault=0A= {margin-right:0cm;=0A= margin-left:0cm;=0A= font-size:10.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}=0A= span.char0=0A= {font-family:SimSun}=0A= span.emailstyle18=0A= {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=0A= color:#1F497D}=0A= span.emailstyle21=0A= {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=0A= color:#1F497D}=0A= span.emailstyle24=0A= {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=0A= color:#1F497D}=0A= span.EmailStyle25=0A= {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=0A= color:#1F497D}=0A= .MsoChpDefault=0A= {font-size:10.0pt}=0A= @page WordSection1=0A= {margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt}=0A= -->=0A= </style><style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style> </head> <body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0= "> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: = 10pt;">Xiaohu, <div><br> </div> <div>Whether the justification I provided rises to the level of a "str= ong reason" is a matter of opinion and you are certainly entitled to y= ours.  <div><br> </div> <div>I'll also point you to the SF definition in the architecture spec (htt= ps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02):</div> <div><br> </div> <div> <pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 1em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bot= tom: 0px; page-break-before: always;"> Service Function (SF): A function= that is responsible for specific=0A= treatment of received packets. A Service Function can act at=0A= various layers of a protocol stack (e.g., at the network layer=0A= or other OSI layers). As a logical component, a Service=0A= Function can be realized as a virtual element or be embedded in=0A= a physical network element. One or multiple Service Functions=0A= can be embedded in the same network element.</pre> <pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 1em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bot= tom: 0px; page-break-before: always;"><br></pre> <pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 1em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bot= tom: 0px; page-break-before: always;"> Ron</pre> <pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 1em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bot= tom: 0px; page-break-before: always;"><br></pre> <pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 1em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bot= tom: 0px; page-break-before: always;"><br></pre> <div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px= "> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRpF907455" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si= ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behal= f of Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:23 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ron Parker; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net<br> <b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">IMHO, if= there is no strong reason for using a single locator for multiple SFs, we= =92d better avoid that. Otherwise, it makes the SFC architecture a little bit ugly, for instance, it makes the SF to unnecessarily have som= e functionalities of the SFF (e.g., using the SFP ID to determine the next = logical SF) otherwise and makes the legacy SFs inapplicable anymore. In oth= er words, we should always consider how to make the legacy SFs work well in the SFC architecture.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best reg= ards,</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Xiaohu</= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span></p> <div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0c= m 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c= m 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; f= ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",&= quot;sans-serif""> Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 12, 2014 10:06 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Xuxiaohu; mikebianc@aol.com; sankarr@juniper.net<br> <b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"> </span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">The realiza= tion of multiple SF's by the same server is neither required nor prohibited= .   In the case where one chooses to support multiple SF's with the same network locator, the SFP ID would allow determination of whi= ch logical SF is being invoked.   Whether you choose to think of this = as 2 distinct policies of the same generic function or whether you think of= this as 2 unrelated SF's is simply a matter of perspective.   Personally, I find it useful to consider tha= t a generalized SF can be modeled as multiple logical SF's (each visible to= SFC) that differ only in their policy settings. </span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">  &nbs= p;Ron</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </span></div> <div id=3D"divRpF642600"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser= if"; color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:bl= ack"> sfc [sfc-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:00 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ron Parker; <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blan= k">mikebianc@aol.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.ne= t</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,<= /span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Why not = specify the following 2 logical service functions as two separate SFs? In t= his way, SFs are SFP-irrelevant and therefore they could be legacy SFs.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best reg= ards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Xiaohu</= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0c= m 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c= m 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; f= ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</s= pan></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"T= ahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> Ron Parker [<a href=3D"ma= ilto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:Ron_Parker@a= ffirmednetworks.com</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 12, 2014 9:53 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Xuxiaohu; <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blank"= >mikebianc@aol.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.ne= t</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> </s= pan></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">Xiaohu, </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">Consider an= SF for HTTP content filtering.   Let's say that there is a single ins= tance of a server that is capable of providing either pre-adolescent or adolescent content filtering.   From an SFC perspective, we can mo= del this as 2 distinct logical service functions -- content-filter-pre-adol= escent and content-filter-adolescent.   But, these 2 logical service f= unctions are realized by exactly 1 running instance of an entity that is capable of performing content filtering. &nb= sp; Now, we can have SFP 1 whose sequence is {pre-adolescent-content-filter= , firewall} and SFP 2 whose sequence is {adolescent-content-filter, firewal= l}.   The SFF would know that both logical functions are realized by the same addressable entity (i.e., it is not nec= essary to use 2 distinct network locators).   When packets are progres= sed from SFF to the server, it can know whether to provide pre-adolescent o= r adolescent content filtering based on the SFP ID.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p= > </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">Thanks.</sp= an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">  &nbs= p;Ron</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> </spa= n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </span></div> <div id=3D"divRpF121182"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser= if"; color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:bl= ack"> Xuxiaohu [xuxiaohu@huawei.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:44 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ron Parker; <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blan= k">mikebianc@aol.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.ne= t</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Hi Ron,<= /span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">As for 1= ), would you please give a real use case where SFC Path ID would be used as= a key for local policy selection? </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best reg= ards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Xiaohu</= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0c= m 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c= m 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; f= ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</s= pan></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"T= ahoma","sans-serif"; color:black"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sf= c-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Parker<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:42 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">mikebianc= @aol.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.ne= t</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> </s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Sankar,<= /span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">I think = the most useful things the SFC-aware SF does wrt the SFC encapsulation know= ledge would be:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans= -serif"; color:#1F497D">a)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si= ze:7.0pt; color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Use the SFC Path ID as a= key for local policy selection</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:b= lack"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans= -serif"; color:#1F497D">b)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si= ze:7.0pt; color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Read and insert metadata= </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang=3D"E= N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans= -serif"; color:#1F497D">c)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si= ze:7.0pt; color:#1F497D">      </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Participate in some SFC = OAM procedures</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">While it= could also use the SFC Path ID to know which SF type is next in the sequen= ce, I think such knowledge could be abstracted down to use case a) above =96 drive the local behavior based on the Path ID.</span><sp= an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> &n= bsp; Ron</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font= -family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"= style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri= f"; color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:bl= ack"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; f= ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</= span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"= Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:= sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:mikebianc@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">= mikebianc@aol.com</a><br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:18 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr= @juniper.net</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s= tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"> </s= pan></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black">So far, the only references I= 've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully aware SFs and discussions aroun= d proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a).  As the SF can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered to be SFC-awar= e.  Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC features. e= .g. most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support reclassification.</span>= <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN= -US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black">I haven't seen anything in th= e drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of the options for that matter).</= span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN= -US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black">There is also a proposed mech= anism for the SF to provide feedback to influence classification.</span><sp= an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black"> </span><span lang=3D"EN= -US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font= -family:"Courier New"; color:black">see: <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03" target= =3D"_blank"> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03</a></span><span la= ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black= "> </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black= "> </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"></span></p> <div style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New&qu= ot;; color:black"> <hr size=3D"1" width=3D"100%" noshade=3D"" align=3D"center" style=3D"color:= #999999"> </span></div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.75pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-U= S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:bl= ack">From: </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quo= t;Courier New"; color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:sankarr@juniper.net%3cs= ankarr@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@junipe= r.net</a>><br> <b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org%3csfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"= >sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org</a>><br> <b>Sent: </b>Thursday, November 13, 2014<br> <b>Subject: </b>[sfc] SF and SFC awareness<br> <br> <br> <br> Hi,<br> <br> I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts.<= br> <br> Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed.<br> <br> A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt)<b= r> <br> To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP.<br> <br> The possible scenarios I see are<br> <br> a)    SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participatin= g in. Many existing SF functions may fall in this category.<br> <br> b)    SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simp= le construct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right interfac= e), where SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving on the lef= t interface will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF itself is not aware of SFP beyond following the rules o= f the simple construct (interface-pair).<br> <br> c)    SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a sp= ecial header (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating i= n and reflecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets.<br> <br> d)    SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can p= ick an SFC (opaque value) through policy decisions. <br> <br> e)    SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence th= e selection of next SF through policy decisions. <br> <br> The question I have is<br> <br> -    Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF i= n SFC? Should just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient?<br> <br> <br> If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it.<= br> <br> Thanks,<br> <br> Sankar<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> sfc mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style= =3D"color:black"></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B2E7A8036MBX021W3CA2exch_-- From nobody Fri Dec 12 08:02:29 2014 Return-Path: <akatlas@juniper.net> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CBC71A87BC for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 14:08:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MPsGeUEIlslb for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 14:08:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0118.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFDA11A6FE2 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 14:08:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from BN3PR0501MB1570.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.161.217.148) by BN3PR0501MB1572.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.161.217.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.31.17; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 22:08:53 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1570.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.161.217.148]) by BN3PR0501MB1570.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.161.217.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0031.000; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 22:08:53 +0000 From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@juniper.net> To: "draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org> Thread-Topic: started IETF Last Call for draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement Thread-Index: AdAVjuS+VeBD71NlR4+oGvP8tIRB9w== Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 22:08:53 +0000 Message-ID: <BN3PR0501MB15704729DAA783B82683A437B5630@BN3PR0501MB1570.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1572; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1572; x-forefront-prvs: 0422860ED4 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(189002)(41574002)(164054003)(199003)(15975445007)(86362001)(230783001)(102836002)(92566001)(97736003)(21056001)(50986999)(54356999)(54606007)(101416001)(68736005)(110136001)(120916001)(105586002)(46102003)(106356001)(20776003)(64706001)(54206007)(77156002)(62966003)(4396001)(229853001)(19580395003)(99286002)(2351001)(122556002)(99396003)(74316001)(31966008)(2656002)(107046002)(87936001)(66066001)(76576001)(33656002)(40100003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1572; H:BN3PR0501MB1570.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BN3PR0501MB15704729DAA783B82683A437B5630BN3PR0501MB1570_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/hUK_SOQMU8mJ07BK7Ks00tjOaEg X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:02:27 -0800 Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Subject: [sfc] started IETF Last Call for draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 22:08:57 -0000 --_000_BN3PR0501MB15704729DAA783B82683A437B5630BN3PR0501MB1570_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have done my usual AD review of draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement-10. This is a very well-written and clear document - thanks! I've requested IETF Last Call on it and expect to discuss it at the telecha= t on Jan 8. Thanks, Alia --_000_BN3PR0501MB15704729DAA783B82683A437B5630BN3PR0501MB1570_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server"> <!-- converted from rtf --> <style><!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; padding-left: 4pt; border-left:= #800000 2px solid; } --></style> </head> <body> <font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;"> <div>I have done my usual AD review of draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement-10.= </div> <div>This is a very well-written and clear document – thanks!</div> <div>I’ve requested IETF Last Call on it and expect to discuss it at = the telechat on Jan 8.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks,</div> <div>Alia</div> <div> </div> </span></font> </body> </html> --_000_BN3PR0501MB15704729DAA783B82683A437B5630BN3PR0501MB1570_-- From nobody Fri Dec 12 11:32:02 2014 Return-Path: <jmh@joelhalpern.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9CB1A8781 for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:32:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S5HZ5MQAkvHH for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:31:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E7E71A1B61 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:31:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2512E24D474; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:31:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [213.194.105.90]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0CE824D473; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:31:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <548B4286.9090303@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 14:31:18 -0500 From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mikebianc@aol.com" <mikebianc@aol.com>, sankarr@juniper.net References: <cc8bde1674e44dfd8e0e31fd59fd3a11@BLUPR05MB386.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <2053539094.3635.1418311068996.JavaMail.tomcat@mgs-aad01.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/0aYQhVhK_B3mFq0tcNNkQC5Q5S8 Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] SF and SFC awareness X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 19:32:00 -0000 Just a minor point, in terms of the architecture if an SF performs its own classification and rewrites the path ID then it is an SF with a collocated Classifier and probably a collocated SFF for handling the results of the classification. This is permitted by the archtiecture. Yours, Joel On 12/11/14, 10:17 AM, mikebianc@aol.com wrote: > So far, the only references I've seen to SF awareness has been wrt fully > aware SFs and discussions around proxies for SFC-unaware SFs (a). As > the SF can process the header (c), I believe that it can be considered > to be SFC-aware. Each SF, however, might support varying degrees of SFC > features. e.g. most SFC-aware DPIs will probably also support > reclassification. > > I haven't seen anything in the drafts that would prohibit (e) (or any of > the options for that matter). > > There is also a proposed mechanism for the SF to provide feedback to > influence classification. > > see: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-sfc-control-plane-03 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *sankarr@juniper.net<sankarr@juniper.net> > *To: *sfc@ietf.org<sfc@ietf.org> > *Sent: *Thursday, November 13, 2014 > *Subject: *[sfc] SF and SFC awareness > > > > Hi, > > I just recently joined the SFC mailing list and catching up on SFC drafts. > > Please bear with me if these questions have been already discussed. > > A basic question on SFC architecture (draft-ietf-sfc-architecture-02.txt) > > To what extent an SF should be aware of SFC or SFP. > > The possible scenarios I see are > > a) SF is completely unaware of SFC/SFP that it is participating in. > Many existing SF functions may fall in this category. > > b) SF is aware of SFP to the extent that it can support a simple > construct such an interface-pair per SFP (left interface, right > interface), where SF will take responsibility to ensure packets arriving > on the left interface will be sent to right interface and vice-versa. SF > itself is not aware of SFP beyond following the rules of the simple > construct (interface-pair). > > c) SF is aware of SFP by being able to parse and preserve a special > header (nsh) to gleam information about the SFP it is participating in > and reflecting it back to SFF when transmitting the packets. > > d) SF is aware of SFC as a opaque entity through OAM and can pick an > SFC (opaque value) through policy decisions. > > e) SF is aware of SFC details through OAM and can influence the > selection of next SF through policy decisions. > > The question I have is > > - Is there a need for option e) where SF is aware of next SF in SFC? > Should just treating SFC as a opaque value is sufficient? > > > If these points are already described in some draft please point me to it. > > Thanks, > > Sankar > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Mon Dec 15 07:14:54 2014 Return-Path: <jguichar@cisco.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60471A6F5B for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:14:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jL2oTZavhO4E for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:14:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC0AB1A1AF4 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:14:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1603; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1418656489; x=1419866089; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=EFGSgGRwOiZS93uA+vhPLn8Oy+tbRdmynkCz6KOviaI=; b=c27RNAQCNFlyXMf7IwCE2drURJ/JQewG7W1BH+DlYW4DzpNqDSL/ra6J dRjqVA/LmxlWlgrpoiOGDyyU3pDc0fpf+6Sfv5W+JsiMM69hg5JLhBpLP EXY4Qrvp97xYb52R1ARo9wLVoqpkkXb5RRbmLyTYzpMpC5DyPK0GkwcEn g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjgFANX5jlStJA2L/2dsb2JhbABagkNDgS7MaRYBAQEBAX2EAxCBCwELAXQnBIg/rW2lWAEBCAEBAQEelCIFjgKIb4ELgl6NTiKDbIIzfgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,580,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="380794675" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Dec 2014 15:14:48 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com [173.36.12.82]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBFFEm0c023285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for <sfc@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:14:48 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.39]) by xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com ([173.36.12.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:14:48 -0600 From: "Jim Guichard (jguichar)" <jguichar@cisco.com> To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 Thread-Index: AQHQGHndXfJYaVE90UWBGYMY0p5HlA== Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:14:47 +0000 Message-ID: <D0B46515.420A5%jguichar@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 x-originating-ip: [10.98.43.179] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D0B46515420A5jguicharciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/K3bGyT03uJWbF68c4Xv_4RZKVQY Subject: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:14:53 -0000 --_000_D0B46515420A5jguicharciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear WG: This note begins a 2-week WG LC on draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases= .01.txt. The document authors have indicated that they have addressed all known comm= ents and that there are no open issues with the current version of the docu= ment. Substantive comments to the list please, editorial comments can go directly= to the document editors. Jim & Thomas --_000_D0B46515420A5jguicharciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2C2B0C67CDCB924FB3EE254375BCEAB0@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami= ly: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <div>Dear WG:</div> <div><br> </div> <div>This note begins a 2-week WG LC on draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-= cases.01.txt.</div> <div><br> </div> <div> <div>The document authors have indicated that they have addressed all known= comments and that there are no open issues with the current version of the= document. </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Substantive comments to the list please, editorial comments can go dir= ectly to the document editors.</div> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Jim & Thomas</div> </body> </html> --_000_D0B46515420A5jguicharciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Dec 17 09:01:15 2014 Return-Path: <ddolson@sandvine.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73191A9027 for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:01:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.791 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.791 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rd_6YX0HmMZq for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF48E1A900B for <sfc@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com ([fe80::68ac:f071:19ff:3455]) by wtl-exchp-1.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 12:00:59 -0500 From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com> To: "'sfc@ietf.org'" <sfc@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: "Critical" flag in draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-04 Thread-Index: AdAaGwZtZoWqfjsWSva4ORc6DsPYKw== Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 17:00:58 +0000 Message-ID: <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E9830B181A9@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.109] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E9830B181A9wtlexchp2sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/Wbz1gD6O6ka937Wjvxl5hKoj2MQ Subject: [sfc] "Critical" flag in draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-04 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 17:01:07 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E9830B181A9wtlexchp2sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul et al., The NSH base header has a critical "C" flag, which appears to apply to opti= onal context headers. It isn't clearly defined what "critical" means, but my sense is that the SF= F and SF must know the semantics of the meta-data, and must not treat it op= aquely. Is this view accurate? Then, what is the criticality of the Mandatory Context Headers (for MD=3D1)= ? Could an SFF or SF treat the Mandatory Context Headers in an opaque manner,= or must it know how to interpret them? If the latter, then should the "C" flag be set when MD=3D1 ? David Dolson Senior Software Architect, Sandvine Inc. --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E9830B181A9wtlexchp2sandvi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:x=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:m=3D"http://schema= s.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html= 40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-compose; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Paul et al.,<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The NSH base header has a critical “C” f= lag, which appears to apply to optional context headers.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">It isn’t clearly defined what “critical&= #8221; means, but my sense is that the SFF and SF must know the semantics o= f the meta-data, and must not treat it opaquely. Is this view accurate?<o:p= ></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Then, what is the criticality of the Mandatory Conte= xt Headers (for MD=3D1)?<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Could an SFF or SF treat the Mandatory Context Heade= rs in an opaque manner, or must it know how to interpret them?<o:p></o:p></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">If the latter, then should the “C” flag = be set when MD=3D1 ?<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">David Dolson<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Senior Software Architect, Sandvine Inc.<o:p></o:p><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </body> </html> --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E9830B181A9wtlexchp2sandvi_-- From nobody Thu Dec 18 09:58:03 2014 Return-Path: <irfanali.iali@gmail.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E161A1B7A for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:15:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VrXCy1W1EZwt for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:15:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x236.google.com (mail-lb0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64E541A87A4 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:15:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f182.google.com with SMTP id f15so1457770lbj.27 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:15:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=6dQNHgXzk7KYfMBTug42xIR2VFqJUSfziSTStKyw8RQ=; b=aO8mM8Dz4+JO4zoyhxock6AublWpJ7W2dfkH1yordWgjd+ApgwzilZvucEAEymNne3 mZve074Ei/X15X348jDF2NMbVT/2RGro1WLwUNBHIW3E0qWwrl48rmP7BWhuiTb76Mhp 0C60brebm7JWzNtleu+lxmI8ExF5ChPE+PYHpuavwGSV8IjRo9OslpSmxc33yNVzTTRT JxA4lKbY85W5mmmFW61SzXb2ZOQb0Sz/s/hr0qFotLIDjTkbPEmX0Kcv1VrYtMqC4iWW KSn6MBQ1YqUVa/1+TWUgXutPOhbS7whmK39ygj//yqAmQFqgUJH3gJe9pttOuDxqoY7W Vb3Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.206.108 with SMTP id ln12mr3370576lac.3.1418922937950; Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:15:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.114.67 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:15:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2014 19:15:37 +0200 Message-ID: <CADs9wp-hqSyLVBQTzkj9WFn07umYM0-gbyo3==jY31RayFA8Sg@mail.gmail.com> From: Irfan Ali <irfanali.iali@gmail.com> To: sfc@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134958eae28c2050a80bd03 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/D_amwb-V0xlvRXgscbjuBoic3eQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:58:03 -0800 Subject: [sfc] "VLAN stitching" in draft-ietf-sfc-dc-use-cases-01 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2014 17:15:45 -0000 --001a1134958eae28c2050a80bd03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear Authors, The term "VLAN stitching" for construction of SFCs is used in several places in the draft. Maybe this term is well-known to people in the field, but I was not able to google enough information about this. Can you point me to where I could get more info on what "VLAN stitching" is and how it creates SFC chains. Also, some definition/clarification text could be added to clarify at high level how it works in the definition section? Thanks Irfan --001a1134958eae28c2050a80bd03 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Authors,<div><br></div><div>The term "VLAN stitc= hing" for construction of SFCs is used in several places in the draft.= Maybe this term is well-known to people in the field, but I was not able t= o google enough information about this.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Can = you point me to where I could get more info on what "VLAN stitching&qu= ot; is and how it creates SFC chains. Also, some definition/clarification t= ext could be added to clarify at high level how it works in the definition = section?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div>Irfan =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>= </div> --001a1134958eae28c2050a80bd03-- From nobody Thu Dec 18 16:21:27 2014 Return-Path: <paulq@cisco.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA66B1AC44B for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:21:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 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AhAHAIZuk1StJA2B/2dsb2JhbABbgkNDUlgEgjpIwxIBCYVyAhyBBRYBAQEBAX2EDQEBBAEBAQkXSwsQAgEGAg4xAwICAiULFBEBAQQOBYgsDZw5nGiWLAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARMEj24EB4JoLoETBYwzgVeIcIENgmGNVCKDbG+BRX4BAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,604,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="106769869" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Dec 2014 00:21:17 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com [173.36.12.87]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBJ0LHsA016856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Dec 2014 00:21:17 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.83]) by xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com ([173.36.12.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:21:16 -0600 From: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" <paulq@cisco.com> To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com> Thread-Topic: [sfc] "Critical" flag in draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-04 Thread-Index: AdAaGwZtZoWqfjsWSva4ORc6DsPYKwBOPbkA Date: Fri, 19 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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi, author= s:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I have rea= d draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01. This draft discusses three u= se cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I can unde= rstand the first case and the third case, but I am not sure I understand th= e second case, i.e., CDN case.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Without se= rvice function chain, if we have a popular content that attracts a large nu= mber of users, we can <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Choose one= or several CDN caches that are close to the users, push that content to th= ese CDN caches.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Now we hav= e service function chain, if we have a popular content that is interest to = a large number of users, we choose <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">to add a C= DN cache to a service chain for that content, I am not sure how this case i= s related to service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If we have= five popular movies that are interests to the users, we can add these five= movies to the same CDN cache or distributed CDN caches that are close to the users,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why should= we retrieve popular movies from the service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If we have= five TV episodes and three popular movies, we also can add these different= type of contents to the closest CDN cache, why should we bother the service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do we need= to form a service chain with a set of CDN caches that cache different type= of contents?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">When we sa= y adding a CDN caches to a service chain, do we mean adding a new CDN cache= s to the existing service chain that comprises of a set of other type of service functions(e.g., firewall, DPI),<o:p></o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">if the ans= wer is yes, which position is the CDN cache inserted into the existing serv= ice function chain? In the middle of service function chain or at the end of service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In order t= o not break the existing service function chain, I think the service functi= on that is preceding the CDN cache needs to know who is inserted after itself and the service function that is following the CDN cache need= to know who is inserted before itself. This is something not clear in the = use case.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Unlike the= first case and the third case, in the second case, control plane applicati= on doesn=A1=AFt need to inform SFC edge switch/router about the change to the existing service chain since it is still<o:p></o:p></span></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">a same ser= vice function chain. But control plane application needs to communicate wit= h the service functions that is preceding the CDN cache and one that is following the CDN cache about forwarding change. Let me know i= f my understanding is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards!<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p><= /o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB= =CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> sfc [ma= ilto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B4=FA= =B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil= y:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Jim Guichard (jguichar)<br> </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U= S">12</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">15</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 23:15<br> </span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"= EN-US"> sfc@ietf.org<br> </span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"= > [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></s= pan></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Dear WG:<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">This note be= gins a 2-week WG LC on draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases.01.txt.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The document= authors have indicated that they have addressed all known comments and tha= t there are no open issues with the current version of the document. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Substantive = comments to the list please, editorial comments can go directly to the docu= ment editors.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Jim & Th= omas<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469610Ankgeml501mbschi_-- From nobody Fri Dec 19 20:01:28 2014 Return-Path: <tireddy@cisco.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FB3C1A8ACA for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 20:01:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id djy3K-703m0e for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 20:01:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 876D01A701E for <sfc@ietf.org>; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 20:01:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1508; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1419048081; x=1420257681; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/5qalm4cdSubyfNJun-oPY0-2IL4 Subject: Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 04:01:25 -0000 Comments: 1) Section 2 (Transparent firewall use case) Comment> Firewalls have to look into the entire file to determine that ther= e is no malicious content. For example if it's a zip file then firewall has= to get the complete file, unzip, inspect all the files and then determine = if the file is infected or not. It's not clear how FW determines a file is = safe without inspecting its entire content. 2) Section 2.1 (Event sequence) 1. The firewall examines packets of a flow and deems that it is benign. This can be based on many factors such as a. The packets are encrypted packets which cannot be decrypted and examined further Comment> Bots(malware) communication is typically over an encrypted channel= . Encryption does not necessarily mean that FW will skip inspection. 3) Section 3 (Long-tail Content CDN Use Case) Comment> Content could also be split into chunks (span of 2-3 minutes) and = each chunk can also be downloaded using a different HTTP(S) connection. Lon= g-lived content does not mean long-lived flow. 4) Section 4 (IPsec Management in Mobile Environments) Comment1> HTTP/2.0 uses TLS and how will the service provider perform DPI i= n such cases ? Comment2> If traffic is encrypted then how is critical traffic identified ? Comment3> Is eNodeB having multiple IPSEC tunnels with multiple SecGW ? Comment4> Will eNodeB be dynamically programmed to forward traffic through = different SecWG ? -Tiru From nobody Fri Dec 19 21:06:08 2014 Return-Path: <repenno@cisco.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD481A00FC for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 21:06:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oIh_uB8-Nfu0 for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 21:06:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6316C1A0100 for <sfc@ietf.org>; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 21:06:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=721; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1419051960; x=1420261560; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=XYgANty5xqrMG7SnEKvma39uk6AlDe2FrfCBznhDvfY=; b=eRZDEaF+clZXMf1JtpL5mFKkuAx1FNKaSxLIfY/2w9kAUqZPnK1xBJPY Gc1QcHhj5VDGNmXAPxZGf550+Y+8XNLQfCud6wGN3QrmIi1Cp35nioRim ZpW+AuY5K80HZ0fn579w6XUcoTpBJPzeqyNveWDdqkM/eb7MebEbb1SQx A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhQFAJ4ClVStJV2b/2dsb2JhbABagwZSWATNMBYBAQEBAX2EDQIEOlEBCDZCJwQBEogs0GEBAQEBBgEBAQEBHZQiAQSODYhykUgig25vgUV+AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,611,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="381539900" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Dec 2014 05:05:59 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBK55x5w005411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Dec 2014 05:05:59 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.8.84]) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([173.37.183.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 23:05:59 -0600 From: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com> To: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "Jim Guichard (jguichar)" <jguichar@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 Thread-Index: AQHQHBKkB+bK0xwM7ESfmUUMy0jFDw== Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 05:05:58 +0000 Message-ID: <D0BA417F.7E6F%repenno@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.5.141003 x-originating-ip: [10.24.238.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2F97CAD6B63E77429E79D2D25EC64476@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/_UbJM5ojKMpIqdyzms0NRlqlu6I Subject: Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 05:06:05 -0000 Yes, that is a good point. I wondered myself (at this day and age) which long-lived content is actually represented by a single long lived flow. - From what I understood from video streaming folks multiple connections are used and switched at different times. - Download managers and torrents use 100s of connections to download a single file.=20 Regards, Reinaldo On 12/19/14, 8:01 PM, "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com> wrote: >Section 3 (Long-tail Content CDN Use Case) > >Comment> Content could also be split into chunks (span of 2-3 minutes) >and each chunk can also be downloaded using a different HTTP(S) >connection. Long-lived content does not mean long-lived flow. From nobody Fri Dec 19 21:27:14 2014 Return-Path: <jmh@joelhalpern.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 566551A011D for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 21:27:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QFlKmwhbkyoQ for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 21:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailc2.tigertech.net (mailc2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC8ED1A00FC for <sfc@ietf.org>; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 21:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailc2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B451BC8147; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 21:27:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at c2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (pool-70-106-135-121.clppva.east.verizon.net [70.106.135.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailc2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 646141BC800C; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 21:27:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54950881.4020803@joelhalpern.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 00:26:25 -0500 From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "Jim Guichard (jguichar)" <jguichar@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> References: <D0BA417F.7E6F%repenno@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <D0BA417F.7E6F%repenno@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/LCwCrIHcn_yyewJHbaAgT12Evc8 Subject: Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 05:27:11 -0000 There are many cases where there is not a long lived flow. This use case does not apply to those. Trying to infer correlation across flows, and guessing that new flows are safe based on old flows, is unlikely to be effective. Having said that, observation shows that there are MANY circumstances where there are large, long-lived, flows. Some of the other working groups have been working on tuning ECMP for those, because the "normal" behavior can sometimes produce very undesirable results. Equally, there are some flows which can not be judged "safe". There are some (many actually) which can. The use case does not claim that all flows are safe, or even that all flows can be determined. But some flows can be determined to be safe. And while encryption makes the application of many of these services more complicated, and we expect a lot of traffic to be encrypted, I for one don't want to give up on doing what we can in terms of service steering. Yours, Joel On 12/20/14 12:05 AM, Reinaldo Penno (repenno) wrote: > Yes, that is a good point. I wondered myself (at this day and age) which > long-lived content is actually represented by a single long lived flow. > > - From what I understood from video streaming folks multiple connections > are used and switched at different times. > - Download managers and torrents use 100s of connections to download a > single file. > > Regards, > > Reinaldo > > > > On 12/19/14, 8:01 PM, "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com> > wrote: > >> Section 3 (Long-tail Content CDN Use Case) >> >> Comment> Content could also be split into chunks (span of 2-3 minutes) >> and each chunk can also be downloaded using a different HTTP(S) >> connection. Long-lived content does not mean long-lived flow. > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Sun Dec 21 06:36:53 2014 Return-Path: <ramk@Brocade.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538B71A066C for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 06:36:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6UpMZWzKLftI for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 06:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-000f0801.pphosted.com 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06:36:36 -0800 Received: from HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com ([fe80::aa:5ef3:93e5:ed6d]) by HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com ([fe80::aa:5ef3:93e5:ed6d%18]) with mapi id 15.00.0995.031; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 06:36:36 -0800 From: Ramki Krishnan <ramk@Brocade.com> To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "Jim Guichard (jguichar)" <jguichar@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 Thread-Index: AQHQGHndXfJYaVE90UWBGYMY0p5HlJyWLidAgAP0UxA= Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:36:35 +0000 Message-ID: <d3114633c9d848abb4cd42ea68165bcc@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> References: <D0B46515.420A5%jguichar@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469610A@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469610A@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.180.50] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_d3114633c9d848abb4cd42ea68165bccHQ1WPEXMB11corpbrocadec_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-12-21_03:2014-12-19,2014-12-21,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1402240000 definitions=main-1412210153 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/ak0tF0HraB8gja_VpL2-fOTMC-A Subject: Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: 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9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Qin,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Please fin= d inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ramki<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= ;Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;= font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.o= rg] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Qin Wu<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 19, 2014 8:13 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Jim Guichard (jguichar); sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-case= s-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi, authors:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I have read draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived= -flow-use-cases-01. This draft discusses three use cases.<o:p></o:p></span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I can understand the first case and t= he third case, but I am not sure I understand the second case, i.e., CDN ca= se.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Without service function chain, if we= have a popular content that attracts a large number of users, we can <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Choose one or several CDN caches that= are close to the users, push that content to these CDN caches.<o:p></o:p><= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Now we have service function chain, i= f we have a popular content that is interest to a large number of users, we= choose <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">to add a CDN cache to a service chain= for that content, I am not sure how this case is related to service functi= on chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If we have five popular movies that a= re interests to the users, we can add these five movies to the same CDN cac= he or distributed CDN caches that are close to the users,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Why should we retrieve popular movies= from the service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If we have five TV episodes and three= popular movies, we also can add these different type of contents to the cl= osest CDN cache, why should we bother the service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Do we need to form a service chain wi= th a set of CDN caches that cache different type of contents?<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki: The scope of this draft is CDN= caching in the presence of a service chain.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">When we say adding a CDN caches to a = service chain, do we mean adding a new CDN caches to the existing service c= hain that comprises of a set of other type of service functions(e.g., firewall, DPI),<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">if the answer is yes, which position = is the CDN cache inserted into the existing service function chain? In the = middle of service function chain or at the end of service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In order to not break the existing se= rvice function chain, I think the service function that is preceding the CD= N cache needs to know who is inserted after itself and the service function that is following the CDN cache need to know who = is inserted before itself. This is something not clear in the use case.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki: The position of insertion in t= he service function chain is managed by SFC control plane application (this= is typically specified by the user through a policy). This is true for other use cases too.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Unlike the first case and the third c= ase, in the second case, control plane application doesn=A1=AFt need to inf= orm SFC edge switch/router about the change to the existing service chain since it is still<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">a same service function chain. But co= ntrol plane application needs to communicate with the service functions tha= t is preceding the CDN cache and one that is following the CDN cache about forwarding change. Let me know if my understanding is = correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki: Your statement is confusing. T= he chain needs to be manipulated for all the use cases.<o:p></o:p></span></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:= 10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:SimSun"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bo= unces@ietf.org</a>] <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span></b>Jim Guichard (jguichar)<br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang= =3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>12<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>15<span lang=3D= "ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 23:15<br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sf= c@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf= -sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">This note begins a 2-week WG LC on draf= t-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases.01.txt.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">The document authors have indicated tha= t they have addressed all known comments and that there are no open issues = with the current version of the document. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">Substantive comments to the list please= , editorial comments can go directly to the document editors.<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">Jim & Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_d3114633c9d848abb4cd42ea68165bccHQ1WPEXMB11corpbrocadec_-- From nobody Sun Dec 21 18:47:52 2014 Return-Path: <bill.wu@huawei.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 928751A0037 for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:47:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.76 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.76 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0GldLNX9LDId for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 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<sfc@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 Thread-Index: AQHQGHndXfJYaVE90UWBGYMY0p5HlJyWLidAgAP0UxCAAMToQA== Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 02:47:38 +0000 Message-ID: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469788F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <D0B46515.420A5%jguichar@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469610A@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <d3114633c9d848abb4cd42ea68165bcc@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> In-Reply-To: <d3114633c9d848abb4cd42ea68165bcc@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469788Fnkgeml501mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/yyCtwWuN3SNPxTHHSkb-PehI8ns Subject: Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org 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792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB= =CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Ramki K= rishnan [mailto:ramk@Brocade.com] <br> </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U= S">12</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">21</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 22:37<br> </span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"= EN-US"> Qin Wu; Jim Guichard (jguichar); sfc@ietf.org<br> </span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"= > RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></spa= n></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Qin,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please fin= d inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&= quot;sans-serif""> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto= :sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Qin Wu<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 19, 2014 8:13 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@iet= f.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-case= s-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi, author= s:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I have rea= d draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01. This draft discusses three u= se cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I can unde= rstand the first case and the third case, but I am not sure I understand th= e second case, i.e., CDN case.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Without se= rvice function chain, if we have a popular content that attracts a large nu= mber of users, we can <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Choose one= or several CDN caches that are close to the users, push that content to th= ese CDN caches.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Now we hav= e service function chain, if we have a popular content that is interest to = a large number of users, we choose <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">to add a C= DN cache to a service chain for that content, I am not sure how this case i= s related to service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If we have= five popular movies that are interests to the users, we can add these five= movies to the same CDN cache or distributed CDN caches that are close to the users,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why should= we retrieve popular movies from the service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If we have= five TV episodes and three popular movies, we also can add these different= type of contents to the closest CDN cache, why should we bother the service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do we need= to form a service chain with a set of CDN caches that cache different type= of contents?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki: The= scope of this draft is CDN caching in the presence of a service chain.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[Qin]: If = there is a content that is interest to more users, Why should we add a new = CDN cache associated with this content into a service chain? Why not just simply add a new content to a existing CDN cache that is part= of a service chain? Do you assume that the user only can retrieve content = from a service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">When we sa= y adding a CDN caches to a service chain, do we mean adding a new CDN cache= s to the existing service chain that comprises of a set of other type of service functions(e.g., firewall, DPI),<o:p></o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">if the ans= wer is yes, which position is the CDN cache inserted into the existing serv= ice function chain? In the middle of service function chain or at the end of service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In order t= o not break the existing service function chain, I think the service functi= on that is preceding the CDN cache needs to know who is inserted after itself and the service function that is following the CDN cache need= to know who is inserted before itself. This is something not clear in the = use case.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki: The= position of insertion in the service function chain is managed by SFC cont= rol plane application (this is typically specified by the user through a policy). This is true for other use cases too.<o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> <o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Unlike the= first case and the third case, in the second case, control plane applicati= on doesn=A1=AFt need to inform SFC edge switch/router about the change to the existing service chain since it is still<o:p></o:p></span></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">a same ser= vice function chain. But control plane application needs to communicate wit= h the service functions that is preceding the CDN cache and one that is following the CDN cache about forwarding change. Let me know i= f my understanding is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki: You= r statement is confusing. The chain needs to be manipulated for all the use= cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[Qin]: In = the CDN case, the SFC edge switch/router as Classifier doesn=A1=AFt need to= know whether or not you add a new service function into the existing service chain since traffic flow still corresponds to the same chain. But = in the transparent firewall case and IPSEC Gateway case, the flow should be= switched from one service chain to another new chain, the SFC edge switch/= router MUST know binding change between the traffic flow and the service chain. Does this clarify?<o:p></o= :p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards!<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p><= /o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB= =CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> sfc [<a= href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B4=FA= =B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil= y:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Jim Guichard (jguichar)<br> </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U= S">12</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">15</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 23:15<br> </span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"= EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"> sfc@ietf.org</a><br> </span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"= > [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></s= pan></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Dear WG:<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">This note be= gins a 2-week WG LC on draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases.01.txt.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The document= authors have indicated that they have addressed all known comments and tha= t there are no open issues with the current version of the document. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Substantive = comments to the list please, editorial comments can go directly to the docu= ment editors.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Jim & Th= omas<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469788Fnkgeml501mbschi_-- From nobody Mon Dec 22 01:36:06 2014 Return-Path: <ramk@Brocade.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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Mon, 22 Dec 2014 01:35:54 -0800 Received: from hq1wp-exchub01.corp.brocade.com ([144.49.131.13]) by mx0b-000f0801.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1rdt42hr2d-3 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 22 Dec 2014 01:35:53 -0800 Received: from HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com (10.70.20.185) by HQ1WP-EXCHUB01.corp.brocade.com (10.70.36.99) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.123.3; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 01:35:50 -0800 Received: from HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com (10.70.20.185) by HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com (10.70.20.185) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.995.29; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 01:35:49 -0800 Received: from HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com ([fe80::aa:5ef3:93e5:ed6d]) by HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com ([fe80::aa:5ef3:93e5:ed6d%18]) with mapi id 15.00.0995.031; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 01:35:49 -0800 From: Ramki Krishnan <ramk@Brocade.com> To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "Jim Guichard (jguichar)" <jguichar@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 Thread-Index: AQHQGHndXfJYaVE90UWBGYMY0p5HlJyWLidAgAP0UxCAAMToQIAAdkYg Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 09:35:49 +0000 Message-ID: <c01382bb03ef4ebbb1fb6e10d4ef84cf@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> References: <D0B46515.420A5%jguichar@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469610A@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <d3114633c9d848abb4cd42ea68165bcc@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469788F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469788F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.180.50] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c01382bb03ef4ebbb1fb6e10d4ef84cfHQ1WPEXMB11corpbrocadec_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-12-22_01:2014-12-19,2014-12-21,1970-01-01 signatures=0 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span.EmailStyle23 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D;} span.EmailStyle24 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Please fin= d inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ramki<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= ;Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;= font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.= com] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 22, 2014 8:18 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Ramki Krishnan; Jim Guichard (jguichar); sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o= :p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:= 10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:SimSun"> Ramki Krishnan [<a href=3D"mailto:ramk@Brocade.com">mailto= :ramk@Brocade.com</a>] <br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang= =3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>12<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>21<span lang=3D= "ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 22:37<br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> Qin Wu; Jim Guichard= (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"> sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-s= fc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Qin,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Please find inline.<o:p></o:p></span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= ;Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;= font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bou= nces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Qin Wu<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 19, 2014 8:13 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@iet= f.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-case= s-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi, authors:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I have read draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived= -flow-use-cases-01. This draft discusses three use cases.<o:p></o:p></span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I can understand the first case and t= he third case, but I am not sure I understand the second case, i.e., CDN ca= se.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Without service function chain, if we= have a popular content that attracts a large number of users, we can <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Choose one or several CDN caches that= are close to the users, push that content to these CDN caches.<o:p></o:p><= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Now we have service function chain, i= f we have a popular content that is interest to a large number of users, we= choose <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">to add a CDN cache to a service chain= for that content, I am not sure how this case is related to service functi= on chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If we have five popular movies that a= re interests to the users, we can add these five movies to the same CDN cac= he or distributed CDN caches that are close to the users,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Why should we retrieve popular movies= from the service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If we have five TV episodes and three= popular movies, we also can add these different type of contents to the cl= osest CDN cache, why should we bother the service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Do we need to form a service chain wi= th a set of CDN caches that cache different type of contents?<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki: The scope of this draft is CDN= caching in the presence of a service chain.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: If there is a content that is = interest to more users, Why should we add a new CDN cache associated with t= his content into a service chain? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Why not just simply add a new content= to a existing CDN cache that is part of a service chain? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki1: This is exactly what is descr= ibed. The presence/absence of a CDN cache in the service chain is on a long= -lived content (or long-lived flow in the network) which dynamically switches from most popular to long-tail and vice versa. = In essence, there are 2 service chains, one with the CDN cache and one with= out the CDN cache. This is described in detail in the Long-tail content CDN= event sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Do you assume that the user only can = retrieve content from a service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki1: No. The assumption is that th= e user traffic is always subject to service chain processing.<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">When we say adding a CDN caches to a = service chain, do we mean adding a new CDN caches to the existing service c= hain that comprises of a set of other type of service functions(e.g., firewall, DPI),<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">if the answer is yes, which position = is the CDN cache inserted into the existing service function chain? In the = middle of service function chain or at the end of service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In order to not break the existing se= rvice function chain, I think the service function that is preceding the CD= N cache needs to know who is inserted after itself and the service function that is following the CDN cache need to know who = is inserted before itself. This is something not clear in the use case.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki: The position of insertion in t= he service function chain is managed by SFC control plane application (this= is typically specified by the user through a policy). This is true for other use cases too.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Unlike the first case and the third c= ase, in the second case, control plane application doesn=A1=AFt need to inf= orm SFC edge switch/router about the change to the existing service chain since it is still<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">a same service function chain. But co= ntrol plane application needs to communicate with the service functions tha= t is preceding the CDN cache and one that is following the CDN cache about forwarding change. Let me know if my understanding is = correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki: Your statement is confusing. T= he chain needs to be manipulated for all the use cases.<o:p></o:p></span></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: In the CDN case, the SFC edge = switch/router as Classifier doesn=A1=AFt need to know whether or not you ad= d a new service function into the existing service chain since traffic flow still corresponds to the same chain. But in the t= ransparent firewall case and IPSEC Gateway case, the flow should be switche= d from one service chain to another new chain, the SFC edge switch/router M= UST know binding change between the traffic flow and the service chain. Does this clarify?<o:p></o:p></spa= n></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki1: You are mistaken in the CDN c= ase. Please look at my previous answers and I would suggest you to carefull= y read section 3.1, the Long-tail content CDN event sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:= 10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:SimSun"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bo= unces@ietf.org</a>] <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span></b>Jim Guichard (jguichar)<br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang= =3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>12<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>15<span lang=3D= "ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 23:15<br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sf= c@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf= -sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">This note begins a 2-week WG LC on draf= t-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases.01.txt.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">The document authors have indicated tha= t they have addressed all known comments and that there are no open issues = with the current version of the document. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">Substantive comments to the list please= , editorial comments can go directly to the document editors.<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">Jim & Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_c01382bb03ef4ebbb1fb6e10d4ef84cfHQ1WPEXMB11corpbrocadec_-- From nobody Mon Dec 22 02:42:57 2014 Return-Path: <bill.wu@huawei.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3251C1A8A59 for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 02:42:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.76 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.76 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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Krishnan <ramk@Brocade.com>, "Jim Guichard (jguichar)" <jguichar@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 Thread-Index: AQHQGHndXfJYaVE90UWBGYMY0p5HlJyWLidAgAP0UxCAAMToQIAAdkYggAAQC2A= Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 10:42:34 +0000 Message-ID: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84697B37@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <D0B46515.420A5%jguichar@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469610A@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <d3114633c9d848abb4cd42ea68165bcc@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469788F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <c01382bb03ef4ebbb1fb6e10d4ef84cf@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> In-Reply-To: <c01382bb03ef4ebbb1fb6e10d4ef84cf@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84697B37nkgeml501mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/UmIqU0MN9eOZ8ZJurWuySDL2a0I Subject: Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 10:42:53 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84697B37nkgeml501mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki:<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">please see= inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards!<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p><= /o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB= =CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Ramki K= rishnan [mailto:ramk@Brocade.com] <br> </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U= S">12</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">22</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 17:36<br> </span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"= EN-US"> Qin Wu; Jim Guichard (jguichar); sfc@ietf.org<br> </span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"= > RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></spa= n></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please fin= d inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&= quot;sans-serif""> Qin Wu [<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">mailt= o:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 22, 2014 8:18 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Ramki Krishnan; Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@i= etf.org"> sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o= :p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB= =CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Ramki K= rishnan [<a href=3D"mailto:ramk@Brocade.com">mailto:ramk@Brocade.com</a>] <br> </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U= S">12</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">21</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 22:37<br> </span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"= EN-US"> Qin Wu; Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> </span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"= > RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></spa= n></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Qin,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please fin= d inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&= quot;sans-serif""> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto= :sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Qin Wu<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 19, 2014 8:13 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@iet= f.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-case= s-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi, author= s:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I have rea= d draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01. This draft discusses three u= se cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I can unde= rstand the first case and the third case, but I am not sure I understand th= e second case, i.e., CDN case.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Without se= rvice function chain, if we have a popular content that attracts a large nu= mber of users, we can <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Choose one= or several CDN caches that are close to the users, push that content to th= ese CDN caches.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Now we hav= e service function chain, if we have a popular content that is interest to = a large number of users, we choose <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">to add a C= DN cache to a service chain for that content, I am not sure how this case i= s related to service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If we have= five popular movies that are interests to the users, we can add these five= movies to the same CDN cache or distributed CDN caches that are close to the users,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why should= we retrieve popular movies from the service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If we have= five TV episodes and three popular movies, we also can add these different= type of contents to the closest CDN cache, why should we bother the service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do we need= to form a service chain with a set of CDN caches that cache different type= of contents?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki: The= scope of this draft is CDN caching in the presence of a service chain.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[Qin]: If = there is a content that is interest to more users, Why should we add a new = CDN cache associated with this content into a service chain? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why not ju= st simply add a new content to a existing CDN cache that is part of a servi= ce chain? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki1: Th= is is exactly what is described. The presence/absence of a CDN cache in the= service chain is on a long-lived content (or long-lived flow in the network) which dynamically switches from most popular to long-tail = and vice versa. In essence, there are 2 service chains, one with the CDN ca= che and one without the CDN cache. This is described in detail in the Long-= tail content CDN event sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[Qin]: Rea= lly?, my confusion is you add one more new CDN cache into the service chain= each time you identify new popular content and associate the content with that new CDN cache, but this is not true. <o:p></o:p></sp= an></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Also it is= not clear in the text you maintain two service chains for the same traffic= flow or the same content.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Step 2 of = section 3.1 said you dynamically add a CDN Cache to the service chain for t= hat content when the number of users viewing the same content exceeds a pre-programmed threshold<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Step 3 of = section 3.2 said you dynamically remove a CDN Cache from the service chain = for the content when the number of users viewing the same content fall below a pre-programmed threshold.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think th= e right rephrase is <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">=A1=B0<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">when the n= umber of users viewing the same content exceeds a pre-programmed threshold,= switch to a service chain A that have a CDN cache which could cache that content.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">When the n= umber of users viewing the same content fall below a pre-programmed thresho= ld, then switch to another service chain B that doesn=A1=AFt have a CDN cache for that content but<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">has the sa= me other service functions and also has the order of the other service func= tions as the service chain A.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">=A1=B0<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">From the c= urrent text in the step 2 and 3, it is not clear to me you are talking abou= t the same service chain or two service chains, one is for popular content, one is for long tail content,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Or Maybe y= ou are talking about four service chains, two are used to switch chain for = poplar content, two are used to switch chain for long tail content.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do you ass= ume that the user only can retrieve content from a service chain?<o:p></o:p= ></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki1: No= . The assumption is that the user traffic is always subject to service chai= n processing.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">When we sa= y adding a CDN caches to a service chain, do we mean adding a new CDN cache= s to the existing service chain that comprises of a set of other type of service functions(e.g., firewall, DPI),<o:p></o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">if the ans= wer is yes, which position is the CDN cache inserted into the existing serv= ice function chain? In the middle of service function chain or at the end of service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In order t= o not break the existing service function chain, I think the service functi= on that is preceding the CDN cache needs to know who is inserted after itself and the service function that is following the CDN cache need= to know who is inserted before itself. This is something not clear in the = use case.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki: The= position of insertion in the service function chain is managed by SFC cont= rol plane application (this is typically specified by the user through a policy). This is true for other use cases too.<o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> <o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Unlike the= first case and the third case, in the second case, control plane applicati= on doesn=A1=AFt need to inform SFC edge switch/router about the change to the existing service chain since it is still<o:p></o:p></span></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">a same ser= vice function chain. But control plane application needs to communicate wit= h the service functions that is preceding the CDN cache and one that is following the CDN cache about forwarding change. Let me know i= f my understanding is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki: You= r statement is confusing. The chain needs to be manipulated for all the use= cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[Qin]: In = the CDN case, the SFC edge switch/router as Classifier doesn=A1=AFt need to= know whether or not you add a new service function into the existing service chain since traffic flow still corresponds to the same chain. But = in the transparent firewall case and IPSEC Gateway case, the flow should be= switched from one service chain to another new chain, the SFC edge switch/= router MUST know binding change between the traffic flow and the service chain. Does this clarify?<o:p></o= :p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki1: Yo= u are mistaken in the CDN case. Please look at my previous answers and I wo= uld suggest you to carefully read section 3.1, the Long-tail content CDN event sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[Qin]: may= be I misunderstand what it proposed in the CDN case, but I think CDN case d= id bring some confusing as I described above.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards!<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p><= /o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB= =CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> sfc [<a= href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B4=FA= =B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil= y:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Jim Guichard (jguichar)<br> </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U= S">12</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">15</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 23:15<br> </span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"= EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"> sfc@ietf.org</a><br> </span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"= > [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></s= pan></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Dear WG:<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">This note be= gins a 2-week WG LC on draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases.01.txt.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The document= authors have indicated that they have addressed all known comments and tha= t there are no open issues with the current version of the document. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Substantive = comments to the list please, editorial comments can go directly to the docu= ment editors.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Jim & Th= omas<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84697B37nkgeml501mbschi_-- From nobody Mon Dec 22 02:53:21 2014 Return-Path: <bill.wu@huawei.com> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E398C1A8A5A for <sfc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 02:53:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.76 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.76 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from 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Dec 2014 18:53:07 +0800 From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> To: Ramki Krishnan <ramk@Brocade.com>, "Jim Guichard (jguichar)" <jguichar@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 Thread-Index: AQHQGHndXfJYaVE90UWBGYMY0p5HlJyWLidAgAP0UxCAAMToQIAAdkYggAAa/8A= Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 10:53:06 +0000 Message-ID: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84697BAA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <D0B46515.420A5%jguichar@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469610A@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <d3114633c9d848abb4cd42ea68165bcc@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469788F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <c01382bb03ef4ebbb1fb6e10d4ef84cf@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> In-Reply-To: <c01382bb03ef4ebbb1fb6e10d4ef84cf@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: 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font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.HTMLChar {mso-style-name:"HTML =D4=A4=C9=E8=B8=F1=CA=BD Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"HTML =D4=A4=C9=E8=B8=F1=CA=BD"; font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki:<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">One additi= onal comment is<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se= rif";color:#1F497D">Is a pre-programmed threshold in the step2 of sect= ion 3.1 same as the pre-programmed threshold in the step 3 of section 3.1?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think se= ction 3.1 describe two threshold value, one is for popular content, one is = for long tailed content,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But from t= he current text, this is not clear.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards!<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p><= /o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB= =CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Ramki K= rishnan [mailto:ramk@Brocade.com] <br> </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U= S">12</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">22</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 17:36<br> </span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"= EN-US"> Qin Wu; Jim Guichard (jguichar); sfc@ietf.org<br> </span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"= > RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></spa= n></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please fin= d inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&= quot;sans-serif""> Qin Wu [<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">mailt= o:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 22, 2014 8:18 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Ramki Krishnan; Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@i= etf.org"> sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o= :p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB= =CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Ramki K= rishnan [<a href=3D"mailto:ramk@Brocade.com">mailto:ramk@Brocade.com</a>] <br> </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U= S">12</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">21</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 22:37<br> </span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"= EN-US"> Qin Wu; Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> </span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"= > RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></spa= n></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Qin,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please fin= d inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span= lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&= quot;sans-serif""> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto= :sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Qin Wu<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 19, 2014 8:13 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@iet= f.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-case= s-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi, author= s:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I have rea= d draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01. This draft discusses three u= se cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I can unde= rstand the first case and the third case, but I am not sure I understand th= e second case, i.e., CDN case.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Without se= rvice function chain, if we have a popular content that attracts a large nu= mber of users, we can <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Choose one= or several CDN caches that are close to the users, push that content to th= ese CDN caches.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Now we hav= e service function chain, if we have a popular content that is interest to = a large number of users, we choose <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">to add a C= DN cache to a service chain for that content, I am not sure how this case i= s related to service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If we have= five popular movies that are interests to the users, we can add these five= movies to the same CDN cache or distributed CDN caches that are close to the users,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why should= we retrieve popular movies from the service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If we have= five TV episodes and three popular movies, we also can add these different= type of contents to the closest CDN cache, why should we bother the service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do we need= to form a service chain with a set of CDN caches that cache different type= of contents?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki: The= scope of this draft is CDN caching in the presence of a service chain.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[Qin]: If = there is a content that is interest to more users, Why should we add a new = CDN cache associated with this content into a service chain? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why not ju= st simply add a new content to a existing CDN cache that is part of a servi= ce chain? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki1: Th= is is exactly what is described. The presence/absence of a CDN cache in the= service chain is on a long-lived content (or long-lived flow in the network) which dynamically switches from most popular to long-tail = and vice versa. In essence, there are 2 service chains, one with the CDN ca= che and one without the CDN cache. This is described in detail in the Long-= tail content CDN event sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do you ass= ume that the user only can retrieve content from a service chain?<o:p></o:p= ></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki1: No= . The assumption is that the user traffic is always subject to service chai= n processing.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">When we sa= y adding a CDN caches to a service chain, do we mean adding a new CDN cache= s to the existing service chain that comprises of a set of other type of service functions(e.g., firewall, DPI),<o:p></o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">if the ans= wer is yes, which position is the CDN cache inserted into the existing serv= ice function chain? In the middle of service function chain or at the end of service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In order t= o not break the existing service function chain, I think the service functi= on that is preceding the CDN cache needs to know who is inserted after itself and the service function that is following the CDN cache need= to know who is inserted before itself. This is something not clear in the = use case.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki: The= position of insertion in the service function chain is managed by SFC cont= rol plane application (this is typically specified by the user through a policy). This is true for other use cases too.<o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> <o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Unlike the= first case and the third case, in the second case, control plane applicati= on doesn=A1=AFt need to inform SFC edge switch/router about the change to the existing service chain since it is still<o:p></o:p></span></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">a same ser= vice function chain. But control plane application needs to communicate wit= h the service functions that is preceding the CDN cache and one that is following the CDN cache about forwarding change. Let me know i= f my understanding is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki: You= r statement is confusing. The chain needs to be manipulated for all the use= cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[Qin]: In = the CDN case, the SFC edge switch/router as Classifier doesn=A1=AFt need to= know whether or not you add a new service function into the existing service chain since traffic flow still corresponds to the same chain. But = in the transparent firewall case and IPSEC Gateway case, the flow should be= switched from one service chain to another new chain, the SFC edge switch/= router MUST know binding change between the traffic flow and the service chain. Does this clarify?<o:p></o= :p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramki1: Yo= u are mistaken in the CDN case. Please look at my previous answers and I wo= uld suggest you to carefully read section 3.1, the Long-tail content CDN event sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards!<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p><= /o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB= =CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> sfc [<a= href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B4=FA= =B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil= y:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Jim Guichard (jguichar)<br> </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U= S">12</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">15</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 23:15<br> </span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"= EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"> sfc@ietf.org</a><br> </span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"= > [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></s= pan></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Dear WG:<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">This note be= gins a 2-week WG LC on draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases.01.txt.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The document= authors have indicated that they have addressed all known comments and tha= t there are no open issues with the current version of the document. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Substantive = comments to the list please, editorial comments can go directly to the docu= ment editors.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Jim & Th= omas<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84697BAAnkgeml501mbschi_-- From nobody Mon Dec 22 06:25:08 2014 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<ramk@Brocade.com> To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "Jim Guichard (jguichar)" <jguichar@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01 Thread-Index: AQHQGHndXfJYaVE90UWBGYMY0p5HlJyWLidAgAP0UxCAAMToQIAAdkYggAAa/8CAADveAA== Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 14:24:38 +0000 Message-ID: <e8e5edffeb504c358093464f0193251f@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> References: <D0B46515.420A5%jguichar@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469610A@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <d3114633c9d848abb4cd42ea68165bcc@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469788F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <c01382bb03ef4ebbb1fb6e10d4ef84cf@HQ1WP-EXMB11.corp.brocade.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84697BAA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84697BAA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: 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9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Sure, we w= ill add some additional clarifying text to address your comments.<o:p></o:p= ></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ramki<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> = ;</o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= ;Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;= font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.= com] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 22, 2014 4:23 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Ramki Krishnan; Jim Guichard (jguichar); sfc@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o= :p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">One additional comment is<o:p></o:p><= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span style=3D"fo= nt-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Is= a pre-programmed threshold in the step2 of section 3.1 same as the pre-pro= grammed threshold in the step 3 of section 3.1?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I think section 3.1 describe two thre= shold value, one is for popular content, one is for long tailed content,<o:= p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">But from the current text, this is no= t clear.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:= 10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:SimSun"> Ramki Krishnan [<a href=3D"mailto:ramk@Brocade.com">mailto= :ramk@Brocade.com</a>] <br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang= =3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>12<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>22<span lang=3D= "ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 17:36<br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> Qin Wu; Jim Guichard= (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"> sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-s= fc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Please find inline.<o:p></o:p></span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= ;Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;= font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Qin Wu [<a href=3D"mailto:bill= .wu@huawei.com">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 22, 2014 8:18 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Ramki Krishnan; Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@i= etf.org"> sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o= :p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:= 10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:SimSun"> Ramki Krishnan [<a href=3D"mailto:ramk@Brocade.com">mailto= :ramk@Brocade.com</a>] <br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang= =3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>12<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>21<span lang=3D= "ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 22:37<br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> Qin Wu; Jim Guichard= (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"> sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> RE: WG LC for draft-ietf-s= fc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Qin,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Please find inline.<o:p></o:p></span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= ;Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;= font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bou= nces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Qin Wu<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 19, 2014 8:13 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Jim Guichard (jguichar); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@iet= f.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-case= s-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi, authors:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I have read draft-ietf-sfc-long-lived= -flow-use-cases-01. This draft discusses three use cases.<o:p></o:p></span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I can understand the first case and t= he third case, but I am not sure I understand the second case, i.e., CDN ca= se.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Without service function chain, if we= have a popular content that attracts a large number of users, we can <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Choose one or several CDN caches that= are close to the users, push that content to these CDN caches.<o:p></o:p><= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Now we have service function chain, i= f we have a popular content that is interest to a large number of users, we= choose <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">to add a CDN cache to a service chain= for that content, I am not sure how this case is related to service functi= on chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If we have five popular movies that a= re interests to the users, we can add these five movies to the same CDN cac= he or distributed CDN caches that are close to the users,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Why should we retrieve popular movies= from the service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If we have five TV episodes and three= popular movies, we also can add these different type of contents to the cl= osest CDN cache, why should we bother the service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Do we need to form a service chain wi= th a set of CDN caches that cache different type of contents?<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki: The scope of this draft is CDN= caching in the presence of a service chain.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: If there is a content that is = interest to more users, Why should we add a new CDN cache associated with t= his content into a service chain? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Why not just simply add a new content= to a existing CDN cache that is part of a service chain? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki1: This is exactly what is descr= ibed. The presence/absence of a CDN cache in the service chain is on a long= -lived content (or long-lived flow in the network) which dynamically switches from most popular to long-tail and vice versa. = In essence, there are 2 service chains, one with the CDN cache and one with= out the CDN cache. This is described in detail in the Long-tail content CDN= event sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Do you assume that the user only can = retrieve content from a service chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki1: No. The assumption is that th= e user traffic is always subject to service chain processing.<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">When we say adding a CDN caches to a = service chain, do we mean adding a new CDN caches to the existing service c= hain that comprises of a set of other type of service functions(e.g., firewall, DPI),<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">if the answer is yes, which position = is the CDN cache inserted into the existing service function chain? In the = middle of service function chain or at the end of service function chain?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In order to not break the existing se= rvice function chain, I think the service function that is preceding the CD= N cache needs to know who is inserted after itself and the service function that is following the CDN cache need to know who = is inserted before itself. This is something not clear in the use case.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki: The position of insertion in t= he service function chain is managed by SFC control plane application (this= is typically specified by the user through a policy). This is true for other use cases too.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Unlike the first case and the third c= ase, in the second case, control plane application doesn=A1=AFt need to inf= orm SFC edge switch/router about the change to the existing service chain since it is still<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">a same service function chain. But co= ntrol plane application needs to communicate with the service functions tha= t is preceding the CDN cache and one that is following the CDN cache about forwarding change. Let me know if my understanding is = correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki: Your statement is confusing. T= he chain needs to be manipulated for all the use cases.<o:p></o:p></span></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: In the CDN case, the SFC edge = switch/router as Classifier doesn=A1=AFt need to know whether or not you ad= d a new service function into the existing service chain since traffic flow still corresponds to the same chain. But in the t= ransparent firewall case and IPSEC Gateway case, the flow should be switche= d from one service chain to another new chain, the SFC edge switch/router M= UST know binding change between the traffic flow and the service chain. Does this clarify?<o:p></o:p></spa= n></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ramki1: You are mistaken in the CDN c= ase. Please look at my previous answers and I would suggest you to carefull= y read section 3.1, the Long-tail content CDN event sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo= nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:= 10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:SimSun"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bo= unces@ietf.org</a>] <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span></b>Jim Guichard (jguichar)<br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang= =3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>12<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>15<span lang=3D= "ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 23:15<br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sf= c@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> [sfc] WG LC for draft-ietf= -sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases-01<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">This note begins a 2-week WG LC on draf= t-ietf-sfc-long-lived-flow-use-cases.01.txt.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">The document authors have indicated tha= t they have addressed all known comments and that there are no open issues = with the current version of the document. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">Substantive comments to the list please= , editorial comments can go directly to the document editors.<o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ca= libri",sans-serif;color:black">Jim & Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_e8e5edffeb504c358093464f0193251fHQ1WPEXMB11corpbrocadec_-- From nobody Mon Dec 22 08:13:31 2014 Return-Path: <lsmt@ietf.org> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0501ACE40; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 14:32:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D9bE7YuSTmf2; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 14:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 853431ACE26; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 14:32:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Liaison Statement Management Tool <lsmt@ietf.org> To: Jim Guichard <jguichar@cisco.com>, Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com> X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.9.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141219223219.6289.30037.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 14:32:19 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/YjlDjdQYSF-IHpXBRna6lWDXO-M X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 08:13:30 -0800 Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, chengying10@chinaunicom.cn, t-egawa@ct.jp.nec.com, sfc@ietf.org, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> Subject: [sfc] New Liaison Statement, "LS on SDN standardization activity roadmap to sfc" X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 22:32:24 -0000 Title: LS on SDN standardization activity roadmap to sfc Submission Date: 2014-12-19 URL of the IETF Web page: http://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1375/ Please reply by 2015-04-15 From: ITU-T JCA-SDN (Takashi Egawa <t-egawa@ct.jp.nec.com>) To: Service Function Chaining (Jim Guichard <jguichar@cisco.com>, Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>) Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>,sfc@ietf.org Response Contact: t-egawa@ct.jp.nec.com, chengying10@chinaunicom.cn Technical Contact: Purpose: For action Body: We are pleased to inform you that ITU-T Joint Coordination Activity for Software-Defined Networking (JCA-SDN), which was established in July 2013, has successfully published the first official version of the SDN standardization activity roadmap thanks to the information you provided to us. It is available from the JCA-SDN website, http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/jca/sdn/Pages/default.aspx. As stated in the liaison statement we sent you in November 2013, the objective of the roadmap is to support SDN standardization coordination. SDN is an important topic for our industry, and many standardization-related activities are held in various entities. This makes it difficult for standardization experts to understand what work item is discussed in which entity. The JCA therefore would like to develop a completed and ongoing activity roadmap of SDN standardization”. JCA-SDN will keep updating this roadmap, and therefore we solicit your information about updates. If you send us the latest information of your activity related to SDN as well as Network function virtualization (NFV), network virtualization, programmable networks, and network as a service (NaaS) that are strongly related to SDN, we will reflect it in the next version which will be published after the next JCA-SDN meeting. Please submit your updates using the template to be found in appendix below. Bug reports, comments on the roadmap are also welcome. JCA-SDN meetings are held about three times a year, next one planned on 24 April 2015. Attachments: LS on SDN standardization activity roadmap to sfc https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2014-12-19-itu-t-jca-sdn-sfc-ls-on-sdn-standardization-activity-roadmap-to-sfc-attachment-1.pdf From nobody Sun Dec 28 02:58:23 2014 Return-Path: <adrian@olddog.co.uk> X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08021ACF61; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 02:58:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9j4xNgE4QXaW; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 02:58:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0B21ACF5D; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 02:58:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org> X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141228105814.27249.17491.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 02:58:14 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/telPNYeMopdNGwg9XxpI2QvSt-A Cc: jmh@joelhalpern.com, draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [sfc] Adrian Farrel's No Objection on draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement-10: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Network Service Chaining <sfc.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/> List-Post: <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>, <mailto:sfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:58:17 -0000 Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement-10: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-problem-statement/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm balloting No Objection on this document although I did not find it a satisfying or detailed read. I think it contains text that could be left out and would improve the document. I think it omits material (describing the deployment and operation of service function chains today, and discussing security) that should be included. None of these issues quite makes it to the level of a Discuss for me, but it was a close thing. Perhaps the authors and working group would like to look at the document more closely. --- Section 1 Furthermore there is a cascading effect: service changes affect other services. This is not clear (to me). Perhaps you intend s/affect/may affect/ Perhaps you intend s/service changes/service function changes/ And maybe you meant that the introduction of a new service function onto a path in order to change one service, causes that same service function to be applied to all traffic on that path thereby changing other services. --- Section 1.1 Thank you for the reference to OSI layers. It's been a long time and they have been sorely missed. In a document where you are hot on overlays (which imply layer inversions) the mention of OSI layers is certainly "interesting". --- Notwithstanding your definition in section 1.1, the term "Service Function" remains ambiguous. Under your definition, a packet forwarder is a service function. What about a packet classifier? --- Section 1.1 Service Function Chain I stumbled over "The implied order may not be a linear progression". I think you need s/implied order/ordering constraints/ --- I suspect 2.2 needs to say "physical topology" since the point of this work is to introduce overlays that make changes to the service topology possible with simple configuration. --- Section 2.3 Flip the order of the paragraphs so that the current first paragraph has context for its statements. However, I think I contest the scope of your statements. They are true when the failure is the failure of a service function but there is continued ability to forward traffic. They are not true when the failure is of connectivity (such as a link) or of forwarding (such as a service function node). In those cases "in the same topology" might be better phrased as "in parallel paths through the same topology." --- Section 2.4 is something of a marketing statement which is a shame. Anyway, it conflicts with two things when it says: Service function chains today are most typically built through manual configuration processes. These are slow and error prone. With the advent of newer service deployment models Firstly, the prior text gives the impression that the service function chain is most typically built through physical deployment of service function nodes along traffic paths and their subsequent configuration. Secondly, there is little (if any) difference between a manual configuration process and a "newer service deployment model". That is, automation of configuration is identical in effect to manual configuration. Surely the distinction you want to draw out is the change from physical placement of service function nodes and the consequent constraints on ordering with the proposed virtualisation of topology through the overlay that allows service function nodes to be located anywhere and chained in arbitrary orders. --- I think the concept of "transport" in section 2.6 will (or should) run into the classic problem of the two meanings of "transport". Can you make the text clearer that you are not discussing whether UDP, RTP, SCTP etc. are in use. --- Does 2.7 mean "flexible" instead of "elastic"? Would it be good to have explained the current state of the are described here for the first time? Maybe an early section of the document could spend some (more) time describing how SFC is done today. --- Shouldn't 2.8 say "...unless packets are reclassified and classification behaviors are configured at each service function node" ? The point being that a more flexible and granular SFC mechanism (such as the WG is producing) effectively performs fine-grained classification at the head of the chain and then "marks" each packet with the result of that classification through a chain identifier, through a composite chain, or in metadata. Where an overlay topology is used, you are not actually changing the behavior you describe in this section (the mapping of traffic on a segment into a service function is still coarse), but you are changing the granularity of the topology. --- Section 2.10 Is "may not" "might not", "must not", or "cannot"? --- Why doesn't section 3 mention encapsulation? Isn't this a large part of the work and solution? --- I should really be happier were Section 4 to be removed. I don't believe it adds anything, it is (by its own admission) incomplete and leaves one to wonder about the significance of omissions, and it is out of date even before it is published. Actually, I have this particular Comment almost at the level of a Discuss: this section is harmful to the work of the IETF and detracts from the value of this document. --- Section 5 (rightly) notes the content present in Section 3. Why doesn't the Abstract also mention what will be in Section 3? Why doesn't the Introduction mention the content of Section 3? What value does Section 5 add to the document? --- Section 7 is deficient, IMHO. The problem statement should describe the problem of security of configuration and construction of service chains today. It should also observe that some service functions are specifically security functions: placing such functions on the physical path ensures that they are executed, while allowing them to be by-passed in the overlay network or left out of a chain is a considerable risk. However, I will leave it for the Security ADs to decide whether this point needs to be Discussed. --- Dave Mcdysan needs a capital D