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Subject: [sfc] sfc - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 104
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An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Tal Mizrahi, a Secretary of the sfc working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Service Function Chaining
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Tal Mizrahi

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 100
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: bess idr i2nsf ippm mpls spring rtgwg lisp ntp teas
 Second Priority: detnet



People who must be present:
  Joel M. Halpern
  Jim Guichard
  Martin Vigoureux
  Tal Mizrahi

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


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From: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 23:10:15 -0500
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Subject: Re: [sfc] The SFC WG has placed draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support in state "Candidate for WG Adoption"
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Hi,

I support this draft as a co-author. We expect to post a revision to
resolve comments shortly.

There is IPR in this draft that has not yet been declared to the IETF
and am working on getting a declaration filed.

Thanks,
Donald
===============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 1424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 9:15 AM Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As a co-author, I feel that this draft is ready for WG adoption.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:11 AM IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> The SFC WG has placed draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support in state
>> Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Joel Halpern)
>>
>> The document is available at
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support/
>>
>> Comment:
>> This starts the WG call for adoption of this draft.
>> Please respond to the list, indicating support for this as a work item of the
>> working group with this document as the basis for the work, or objection to
>> the working group adopting this item as a working group draft.
>>
>> The authors should confirm to the chairs and WG secretary that all IPR known
>> to them relevant to this draft has been disclosed.
>>
>> The working group adoption call will last 2 weeks, ending at the end of the
>> day on Thursday, January 17 2019 COB somewhere.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Joel


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 16:41:08 -0800
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Cc: ao.ting@zte.com.cn, Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Fw:New Version Notification for draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt
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Hi Dirk,
thank you for your kind words about the drafts, thoughtful comments, and
the most helpful suggestions. Will work on updating drafts and will share
the proposed changes with you shortly.

Best regards,
Greg

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 8:06 AM <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I have read both drafts on extending SFC OAM by adding a reply path TLV
> for testing SFPs and for checking consistency of SFPs.
>
> I believe that for operators such measures are very useful when SFC is
> deployed in future networks and logical network slices.
>
>
>
> As both drafts rely on adopted WG draft
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01 I also had
> a look at that one.
>
> Comments and nits:
>
> P.4:
>
> the service SFP1 may be realized through two RSPs, RSP1(SF1--SF3--SF5) an=
d
> RSP2(SF2--SF4--SF5). =3D>
>
> the service SFP1 may be realized through two independent RSPs,
> RSP1(SF1--SF3--SF5) and RSP2(SF2--SF4--SF6).
>
> Since IMO there are further possible RSPs as SF1=E2=80=94SF4--SF5, SF1=E2=
=80=94SF3=E2=80=94SF6,
> etc.
>
> P.7:
>
> BFD =3D> BFD (Bidirectional Forwarding Detection)
>
> P.8:
>
>    o  Reply via Specified Path (TBA7) =3D>    o  Reply via Specified Path
> (TBA8)
>
> P.9/p.10:
>
> *5.2*
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01#section-5.=
2>*.
> SFC Echo Request Reception*
>
> *5.4*
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01#section-5.=
4>*.
> Overlay Echo Reply Reception*
>
> There is still text missing in both sections
>
>
>
> Regarding the main drafts in focus here I only have very minor comments
> (nits) on draft-ao-sfc-oam-returned-path-specified-02:
>
> P.2:
>
> [RFC7665], For example, =3D> [RFC7665]. For example,
>
> P.3:
>
> the SFC Reply Path TLV Section 4. =3D> the SFC Reply Path TLV as describe=
d
> in Section 4.
>
> P.5:
>
> return path is a SFP =3D> return path is an SFP
>
> SFP,it is assumed that the last SFF doesn't know the reply path of a SFC
>
> =3D> SFP, it is assumed that the last SFF doesn't know the reply path of =
an
> SFC
>
>
>
> And on draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt:
>
> P.2:
>
> Sometimes, a SF needs to =3D> Sometimes, an SF needs to
>
> P.4:
>
> following values Section 5.1 =3D> following values further detailed in
> Section 5.1
>
> as as described in Section=3D> as is described in Section
>
> P.6:
>
> list of the SFs are in load balance group
>
> =3D> list of the SFs which are in included in a load balance group.
>
> P.8/9:
>
> TBA1-TBA4, TBA6-TBA8 are requested but no TBA5?!
>
>
>
> As already said I think the extensions are useful and I see no open gaps.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kind regards
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
> *From:* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *ao.ting@zte.com.cn
> *Sent:* Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2019 15:42
> *To:* sfc@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [sfc] Fw:New Version Notification for
> draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt
>
>
>
> Hi all=EF=BC=8C
>
>
>
> We have updated a new version for draft draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency=
-04
> based on the discussion in the mailist. The main change is the COAM Reply
> message for load balance scenario in section 3.4.2.  Any comments are
> always welcome.
>
>
>
> We think both draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04(
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04) and
> draft-ao-sfc-oam-returned-path-specified-02(
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified-02)
> are ready. We request for the consideration of the WG adoption.
>
>
>
> Best Regards.
>
> Ting Ao
>
>
>
> =E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-=
drafts@ietf.org>
>
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.c=
om>;=E6=95=96=E5=A9=B700071246;Kent Leung <
> kleung@cisco.com>;Zhonghua Chen <18918588897@189.cn>;Greg Mirsky <
> gregimirsky@gmail.com>;
>
> *=E6=97=A5 **=E6=9C=9F **=EF=BC=9A*2018=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8827=E6=97=A5 16=
:26
>
> *=E4=B8=BB **=E9=A2=98 **=EF=BC=9ANew Version Notification for
> draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt*
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Ting Ao and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:        draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency
> Revision:    04
> Title:        SFC OAM for path consistency
> Document date:    2018-12-27
> Group:        Individual Submission
> Pages:        11
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04=
.txt
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency/
> Htmlized:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04
> Htmlized:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency
> Diff:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04
>
> Abstract:
>    Service Function Chain (SFC) defines an ordered set of service
>    functions (SFs) to be applied to packets and/or frames and/or flows
>    selected as a result of classification.  SFC Operation,
>    Administration and Maintenance can monitor the continuity of the SFC,
>    i.e., that all elements of the SFC are reachable to each other in the
>    downstream direction.  But SFC OAM must support verification that the
>    order of traversing these SFs corresponds to the state defined by the
>    SFC control plane or orchestrator, the metric referred in this
>    document as the path consistency of the SFC.  This document defines a
>    new SFC OAM method to support SFC consistency check, i.e.
>    verification that all elements of the given SFC are being traversed
>    in the expected order.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Dirk,<div>thank you for your kind words about the draft=
s, thoughtful comments, and the most helpful suggestions. Will work on upda=
ting drafts and will share the proposed changes with you shortly.=C2=A0</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 5, 2019=
 at 8:06 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de">Dirk.von-Hugo@t=
elekom.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"DE">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-1097296677082361760WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I have read both drafts on ex=
tending SFC OAM by adding a reply path TLV for testing SFPs and for checkin=
g consistency
 of SFPs.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I believe that for operators =
such measures are very useful when SFC is deployed in future networks and l=
ogical network
 slices.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As both drafts rely on adopte=
d WG draft</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01</a>
 I also had a look at that one.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Comments and nits:<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.4:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas;color:black">the service SFP1 may be realized through two RSP=
s, RSP1(SF1--SF3--SF5) and RSP2(SF2--SF4--SF5). =3D&gt;<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas;color:black">the service SFP1 may be realized through two ind=
ependent RSPs, RSP1(SF1--SF3--SF5) and RSP2(SF2--SF4--SF6).</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rg=
b(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Since IMO there are further p=
ossible RSPs as SF1=E2=80=94SF4--SF5, SF1=E2=80=94SF3=E2=80=94SF6, etc.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.7:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">BFD=
 =3D&gt; BFD (Bidirectional Forwarding Detection)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.8:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Reply via Specified Path (T=
BA7) =3D&gt; =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0o=C2=A0 Reply via Specified Path (TBA8)<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.9/p.10:<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<a name=3D"m_-1097296677082361760_section-5.2"></a><a href=3D"https://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01#section-5.2" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;;color:black">5.2</span></b></span><span></span></a><spa=
n></span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;=
Courier New&quot;;color:black">.=C2=A0
 SFC Echo Request Reception<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<a name=3D"m_-1097296677082361760_section-5.4"></a><a href=3D"https://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01#section-5.4" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;;color:black">5.4</span></b></span><span></span></a><spa=
n></span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;=
Courier New&quot;;color:black">.=C2=A0
 Overlay Echo Reply Reception<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas;color:black">There is still text missing in both sections<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regarding the main drafts in =
focus here I only have very minor comments (nits) on
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;background:white">draft-ao-sfc-oam-returned-path-specified-02:</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.2:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">[RF=
C7665], For example, =3D&gt; [RFC7665]. For example,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.3:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">the SFC Reply Path TLV Sect=
ion 4. =3D&gt; the SFC Reply Path TLV as described in Section 4.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.5:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">ret=
urn path is a SFP =3D&gt; return path is an SFP
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">SFP,it is assumed that the =
last SFF doesn&#39;t know the reply path of a SFC
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">=3D&gt; SFP, it is assumed =
that the last SFF doesn&#39;t know the reply path of an SFC<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">And on
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif">draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt:</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,1=
25)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.2:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">Som=
etimes, a SF needs to =3D&gt; Sometimes, an SF needs to</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.4:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">fol=
lowing values Section 5.1 =3D&gt; following values further detailed in Sect=
ion 5.1</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">as =
as described in Section=3D&gt; as is described in Section</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(31,78,121)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.6:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">list of the SFs are in load=
 balance group
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">=3D&gt; list of the SFs whi=
ch are in included in a load balance group.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.8/9:<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">TBA1-TBA4, TBA6-TBA8 are re=
quested but no TBA5?!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">As already said I think the e=
xtensions are useful and I see no open gaps.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">Kind regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">Dirk<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sf=
c-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:ao.ting@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank"=
>ao.ting@zte.com.cn</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2019 15:42<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] Fw:New Version Notification for draft-ao-sfc-oam-path=
-consistency-04.txt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Hi all</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=EF=
=BC=8C</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">We have up=
dated a new version for draft=C2=A0<span style=3D"background:white">draft-a=
o-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04 based on the discussion in the mailist. The m=
ain change is the COAM Reply message for
 load balance scenario in section 3.4.2.=C2=A0 Any comments are always welc=
ome.</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background:=
white">We think both draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04(<a href=3D"https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04</a>)
 and draft-ao-sfc-oam-returned-path-specified-02(<a href=3D"https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified-02" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified-02</a>) a=
re ready. We request for the consideration
 of the WG adoption.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Best Regar=
ds.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:15pt"><span class=3D"gmail-=
m_-1097296677082361760signedit"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,142,211)">Ting Ao</span></span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:15pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center;line-hei=
ght:21pt;background:rgb(224,229,233)">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;;color:rgb(19,136,255)">=E5=
=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&q=
uot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(19,136,255)">=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6</span><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(19,136,255)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-1097296677082361760zwriteHistoryContainer">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:rgb(245,246,248)"><strong><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E5=8F=91=
=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</span></strong><span class=3D"gmail-m_-10972966=
77082361760zreadusername"><a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-dr=
afts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:rgb(245,246,248)"><strong><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=
=BC=9A</span></strong><span class=3D"gmail-m_-1097296677082361760zreadusern=
ame">Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;;</span><span class=3D"gmail-m_-109729=
6677082361760zreadusername"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot=
;">=E6=95=96=E5=A9=B7</span>00071246;Kent
 Leung &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kleung@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">kleung@cis=
co.com</a>&gt;;Zhonghua Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:18918588897@189.cn" targ=
et=3D"_blank">18918588897@189.cn</a>&gt;;Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;;</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:rgb(245,246,248)"><strong><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=97=A5</span>
</strong><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=9C=
=9F</span> </strong><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot=
;">=EF=BC=9A</span></strong>2018<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&=
quot;">=E5=B9=B4</span>12<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=
=E6=9C=88</span>27<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=97=
=A5</span>
 16:26<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:rgb(245,246,248)"><strong><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E4=B8=BB</span>
</strong><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,=
sans-serif">=E9=A2=98</span>
</strong><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=EF=BC=
=9A</span>New Version Notification for draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04=
.txt</strong><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
A=C2=A0new=C2=A0version=C2=A0of=C2=A0I-D,=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consis=
tency-04.txt<br>
has=C2=A0been=C2=A0successfully=C2=A0submitted=C2=A0by=C2=A0Ting=C2=A0Ao=C2=
=A0and=C2=A0posted=C2=A0to=C2=A0the<br>
IETF=C2=A0repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-=
consistency<br>
Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A004<br>
Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0OAM=C2=A0for=
=C2=A0path=C2=A0consistency<br>
Document=C2=A0date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02018-12-27<br>
Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Individual=C2=A0Submi=
ssion<br>
Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A011<br>
URL:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-co=
nsistency-04.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/dr=
aft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency/" target=3D=
"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency=
/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency<=
/a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a h=
ref=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistenc=
y-04" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ao-sfc-oa=
m-path-consistency-04</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Service=C2=A0Function=C2=A0Chain=C2=A0(SFC)=C2=A0defines=
=C2=A0an=C2=A0ordered=C2=A0set=C2=A0of=C2=A0service<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0functions=C2=A0(SFs)=C2=A0to=C2=A0be=C2=A0applied=C2=A0to=
=C2=A0packets=C2=A0and/or=C2=A0frames=C2=A0and/or=C2=A0flows<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0selected=C2=A0as=C2=A0a=C2=A0result=C2=A0of=C2=A0classifi=
cation.=C2=A0=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0Operation,<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Administration=C2=A0and=C2=A0Maintenance=C2=A0can=C2=A0mo=
nitor=C2=A0the=C2=A0continuity=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0SFC,<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0i.e.,=C2=A0that=C2=A0all=C2=A0elements=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=
=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0are=C2=A0reachable=C2=A0to=C2=A0each=C2=A0other=C2=A0in=C2=
=A0the<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0downstream=C2=A0direction.=C2=A0=C2=A0But=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0O=
AM=C2=A0must=C2=A0support=C2=A0verification=C2=A0that=C2=A0the<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0order=C2=A0of=C2=A0traversing=C2=A0these=C2=A0SFs=C2=A0co=
rresponds=C2=A0to=C2=A0the=C2=A0state=C2=A0defined=C2=A0by=C2=A0the<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0control=C2=A0plane=C2=A0or=C2=A0orchestrator,=C2=
=A0the=C2=A0metric=C2=A0referred=C2=A0in=C2=A0this<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0document=C2=A0as=C2=A0the=C2=A0path=C2=A0consistency=C2=
=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0SFC.=C2=A0=C2=A0This=C2=A0document=C2=A0defines=C2=A0a<=
br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0new=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0OAM=C2=A0method=C2=A0to=C2=A0support=C2=
=A0SFC=C2=A0consistency=C2=A0check,=C2=A0i.e.<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0verification=C2=A0that=C2=A0all=C2=A0elements=C2=A0of=C2=
=A0the=C2=A0given=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0are=C2=A0being=C2=A0traversed<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0in=C2=A0the=C2=A0expected=C2=A0order.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<br>
<br>
<br>
Please=C2=A0note=C2=A0that=C2=A0it=C2=A0may=C2=A0take=C2=A0a=C2=A0couple=C2=
=A0of=C2=A0minutes=C2=A0from=C2=A0the=C2=A0time=C2=A0of=C2=A0submission<br>
until=C2=A0the=C2=A0htmlized=C2=A0version=C2=A0and=C2=A0diff=C2=A0are=C2=A0=
available=C2=A0at=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The=C2=A0IETF=C2=A0Secretariat<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000fefda505812efbda--


From nobody Tue Feb  5 19:44:05 2019
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/gegMlBN9hcj0TAFaT6IKjgghufg>
Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH)
        Authors         : Donald E. Eastlake
                          Bob Briscoe
                          Andrew G. Malis
	Filename        : draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-03.txt
	Pages           : 21
	Date            : 2019-02-05

Abstract:
   Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to
   notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having
   to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed back information about
   congestion to upstream nodes, this can improve network efficiency
   through better congestion control, frequently without packet drops.
   This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback support within a
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain through use of the Network
   Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX,
   draft-ietf-tsvwg-tunnel-congestion-feedback).



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 01:08:23 -0500
Message-ID: <CAF4+nEEKQ+ka55EO=my7UjTp1A-BCbU332Gn2ZFYa2PhVyYVEQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Regarding draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support adoption call
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Hi Anoop,

I'm willing to consider removing a lot of this but I don't understand
what's wrong with Section 1.3, item (3). Say you are a provider of SFC
services to many clients and client session are relatively long lived
and the services required by a client session can be provided through
any one of multiple SFF paths. When a new client session starts,
wouldn't the classified want to have congestion information about the
SFF paths in use by existing client sessions when choosing the SFF
path to be used by the new session?

Thanks,
Donald
===============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 1424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:23 PM Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi Joel,
>
> If that is truly the case, then I think Sections 1.3 and 4 should be removed.
>
> Otherwise, I myself am not clear what 1.3 and 4 are trying to
> accomplish and therefore would need clarification on that from the
> authors.
>
> Thanks,
> Anoop
>
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern Direct
> <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am pretty sure that what is intended is exactly what you say you
> > support, namely simple propagation of the information for the ECN
> > control loop, not a new loop.
> >
> > Can you suggest additional or modified owrding for the document to help
> > make this clear to readers?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Joel
> >
> > On 1/28/19 4:18 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> > > I read the draft and had a clarification question about Section 1.3
> > > and Section 4.
> > >
> > > Is the draft suggestion an alternate congestion control mechanism
> > > between tunnel ingress and tunnel egress which is working separately
> > > from end-to-end congestion control that requires ECN?
> > >
> > > If it's just about propagation of bits for the original feedback loop
> > > (i.e. before the tunnel header is added), I support the draft.  If
> > > it's attempting to define a new congestion feedback loop and
> > > mechanism, I think it may need more discussion.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Anoop
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> While the time for the call has completed, I would like to see the
> > >> current discussion resolve before judging the adoption as chair (with Jim).
> > >> As a corollary, if anyone who has not spoken up has an opinion about the
> > >> adoption, it is still VERY helpful if you speak up.  Please provide
> > >> motivation for your response.
> > >>
> > >> If things do not resolve clearly on their own, the chairs will (as is
> > >> required) reach a determination anyway, but WG clarity is preferred.
> > >>
> > >> Thank you,
> > >> Joel
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> sfc mailing list
> > >> sfc@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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From: "Shwetha Bhandari (shwethab)" <shwethab@cisco.com>
To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
CC: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>, "ao.ting@zte.com.cn" <ao.ting@zte.com.cn>, "jmh@joelhalpern.com" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] proof-of-transit: continue with both approaches, or choose one?
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Subject: Re: [sfc] proof-of-transit: continue with both approaches, or choose one?
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Subject: Re: [sfc] proof-of-transit: continue with both approaches, or choose one?
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The working group has not said much.
 From what little we have seen, and from the judgment of the chairs, the 
document editors should make the changes to focus on SSSS.

Thank you,
Joel (& Jim)

On 2/6/19 2:30 AM, Shwetha Bhandari (shwethab) wrote:
> As a co-author and implementor of the SSSS approach, I would also prefer 
> keeping it as the only approach for proof of transit and remove the 
> nested encryption related text.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Shwetha
> 
> From: <ao.ting@zte.com.cn>
> To: <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> Cc: <fbrockne@cisco.com>, <sfc@ietf.org>
> 
> Subject: Re: [sfc] 
> =?utf-8?q?proof-of-transit=3A_continue_with_both_approache?= 
> =?utf-8?q?s=2Cor_choose_one=3F?=
> 
> I agree with Joel. Since SSSS already has mechanism to provide ordered 
> verification requirment, only this one approach is enough.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> 敖婷Ting Ao
> 
> 原始邮件
> 
> 发件人：JoelM.Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com&gt>;
> 
> 收件人：Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>;sfc@ietf.org 
> <sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org&gt>;;
> 
> 日期：2018年12月17日04:53
> 
> 主题：Re: [sfc] proof-of-transit: continue with both approaches,or 
> choose one?
> 
> <no hats>
> 
> Personally, the argument for just using SSSS, given that it now can
> 
> provide ordered verification, seems quite persuasive to me.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Joel
> 
> <hat floating back on slowly>
> 
> On 12/15/18 3:19 PM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote:
> 
>> During the SFC WG at IETF 103 in Bangkok we raised the question, whether 
> 
>> we could simplify the draft and choose a single algorithm for 
> 
>> proof-of-transit only (see also 
> 
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/minutes-103-sfc-01).
> 
>> Given that we could not come to a conclusion, we decided to take the 
> 
>> discussion to the list.
> 
>> 
> 
>> Background:
> 
>> 
> 
>> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-01 describes two different approaches: 
> 
>> “nested encryption” and “Shamir’s secret sharing scheme (SSSS)”... We 
> 
>> documented both approaches in the initial version of the draft, because 
> 
>> the two approaches had different qualities: While SSSS was 
> 
>> computationally cheaper (each node only needs to perform two additions, 
> 
>> a multiplication and a modulo-division), nested-encryption allowed to 
> 
>> verify that packets traversed a set of nodes in a particular order 
> 
>> (“ordered POT - OPOT”) – something that the SSSS-approach in the initial 
> 
>> version of the draft did not offer. With the changes discussed in IETF 
> 
>> 102 and now documented in draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-01, both 
> 
>> approaches offer order preservation.
> 
>> 
> 
>> In summary, we can now observe the following qualities of the two 
> 
>> approaches:
> 
>> 
> 
>>   * SSSS: Allows verification that a given set of nodes has been
> 
>>     traversed in a specific order (POT and OPOT). SSSS without order
> 
>>     preservation requires 2 additions, 1 multiplication, 1 division per
> 
>>     node participating in POT. Order preservation on top of that
> 
>>     requires an additional XOR (or similar).
> 
>>   * Nested-encryption: Allows verification that a given set of nodes has
> 
>>     been traversed in a specific order (POT and OPOT). The computational
> 
>>     effort of nested encryption depends on the crypto algorithm chosen
> 
>>     and typically higher than SSSS, i.e.. it requires/benefits from
> 
>>     hardware with specific capabilities (e.g. AES-NI). 
> 
>> 
> 
>> Question:
> 
>> 
> 
>> Given that both approaches both solve the problem of POT and ordered 
> 
>> POT, should we consider simplifying the draft and describe only a single 
> 
>> approach? If so, which approach should we choose?
> 
>> 
> 
>> I.e. when taking the computational effort into account and the fact that 
> 
>> options increase the burden for any implementor, we could decide to only 
> 
>> describe the SSSS approach in the draft.
> 
>> 
> 
>> Thoughts? Opinions?
> 
>> 
> 
>> Many thanks, Frank
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________
> 
>> sfc mailing list
> 
>> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> sfc mailing list
> 
> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> 
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 


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From: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 08:54:01 -0800
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To: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Regarding draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support adoption call
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Hi Donald,

The functions are useful.  I just think they need more discussion before it
can be put in a WG document.  What is being suggested would be useful for
any tunneling technology, not just SFC.  And that's why it would need wider
discussion as to what information should be fed to the tunnel ingress.

A couple of issues for example:
- How does one treat ECT vs non-ECT sessions when making these decisions?
- How do we know the feedback is accurate if there are no ECT sessions?

The document becomes a lot more straightforward if all it is dealing with
is propagation of ECN bits from inner to outer header and vice versa.

Thanks,
Anoop

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:08 PM Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Anoop,
>
> I'm willing to consider removing a lot of this but I don't understand
> what's wrong with Section 1.3, item (3). Say you are a provider of SFC
> services to many clients and client session are relatively long lived
> and the services required by a client session can be provided through
> any one of multiple SFF paths. When a new client session starts,
> wouldn't the classified want to have congestion information about the
> SFF paths in use by existing client sessions when choosing the SFF
> path to be used by the new session?
>
> Thanks,
> Donald
> ===============================
>  Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
>  1424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA
>  d3e3e3@gmail.com
>
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:23 PM Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Joel,
> >
> > If that is truly the case, then I think Sections 1.3 and 4 should be
> removed.
> >
> > Otherwise, I myself am not clear what 1.3 and 4 are trying to
> > accomplish and therefore would need clarification on that from the
> > authors.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Anoop
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern Direct
> > <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am pretty sure that what is intended is exactly what you say you
> > > support, namely simple propagation of the information for the ECN
> > > control loop, not a new loop.
> > >
> > > Can you suggest additional or modified owrding for the document to help
> > > make this clear to readers?
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Joel
> > >
> > > On 1/28/19 4:18 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> > > > I read the draft and had a clarification question about Section 1.3
> > > > and Section 4.
> > > >
> > > > Is the draft suggestion an alternate congestion control mechanism
> > > > between tunnel ingress and tunnel egress which is working separately
> > > > from end-to-end congestion control that requires ECN?
> > > >
> > > > If it's just about propagation of bits for the original feedback loop
> > > > (i.e. before the tunnel header is added), I support the draft.  If
> > > > it's attempting to define a new congestion feedback loop and
> > > > mechanism, I think it may need more discussion.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Anoop
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> While the time for the call has completed, I would like to see the
> > > >> current discussion resolve before judging the adoption as chair
> (with Jim).
> > > >> As a corollary, if anyone who has not spoken up has an opinion
> about the
> > > >> adoption, it is still VERY helpful if you speak up.  Please provide
> > > >> motivation for your response.
> > > >>
> > > >> If things do not resolve clearly on their own, the chairs will (as
> is
> > > >> required) reach a determination anyway, but WG clarity is preferred.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you,
> > > >> Joel
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> sfc mailing list
> > > >> sfc@ietf.org
> > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
> > sfc@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

--00000000000026a3e2058150b192
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Donald,<div><br></div><div>The functio=
ns are useful.=C2=A0 I just think they need more discussion before it can b=
e put in a WG document.=C2=A0 What is being suggested would be useful for a=
ny tunneling technology, not just SFC.=C2=A0 And that&#39;s why it would ne=
ed wider discussion as to what information should be fed to the tunnel ingr=
ess.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>A couple of issues for example:</=
div><div>- How does one treat ECT vs non-ECT sessions when making these dec=
isions?=C2=A0</div><div>- How do we know the feedback is accurate if there =
are no ECT sessions?</div><div><br></div><div>The document becomes a lot mo=
re straightforward if all it is dealing with is propagation of ECN bits fro=
m inner to outer header and vice versa.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</d=
iv><div>Anoop</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:08 PM Donald Eastlake &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Anoop,<br>
<br>
I&#39;m willing to consider removing a lot of this but I don&#39;t understa=
nd<br>
what&#39;s wrong with Section 1.3, item (3). Say you are a provider of SFC<=
br>
services to many clients and client session are relatively long lived<br>
and the services required by a client session can be provided through<br>
any one of multiple SFF paths. When a new client session starts,<br>
wouldn&#39;t the classified want to have congestion information about the<b=
r>
SFF paths in use by existing client sessions when choosing the SFF<br>
path to be used by the new session?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Donald<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
=C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1-508-333-2270 (cell)<br>
=C2=A01424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA<br>
=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.co=
m</a><br>
<br>
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:23 PM Anoop Ghanwani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anoop@=
alumni.duke.edu" target=3D"_blank">anoop@alumni.duke.edu</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Joel,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If that is truly the case, then I think Sections 1.3 and 4 should be r=
emoved.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Otherwise, I myself am not clear what 1.3 and 4 are trying to<br>
&gt; accomplish and therefore would need clarification on that from the<br>
&gt; authors.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Anoop<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern Direct<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jm=
h.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I am pretty sure that what is intended is exactly what you say yo=
u<br>
&gt; &gt; support, namely simple propagation of the information for the ECN=
<br>
&gt; &gt; control loop, not a new loop.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Can you suggest additional or modified owrding for the document t=
o help<br>
&gt; &gt; make this clear to readers?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Thank you,<br>
&gt; &gt; Joel<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; On 1/28/19 4:18 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I read the draft and had a clarification question about Sect=
ion 1.3<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; and Section 4.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Is the draft suggestion an alternate congestion control mech=
anism<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; between tunnel ingress and tunnel egress which is working se=
parately<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; from end-to-end congestion control that requires ECN?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; If it&#39;s just about propagation of bits for the original =
feedback loop<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; (i.e. before the tunnel header is added), I support the draf=
t.=C2=A0 If<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; it&#39;s attempting to define a new congestion feedback loop=
 and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; mechanism, I think it may need more discussion.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Anoop<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; While the time for the call has completed, I would like =
to see the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; current discussion resolve before judging the adoption a=
s chair (with Jim).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As a corollary, if anyone who has not spoken up has an o=
pinion about the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; adoption, it is still VERY helpful if you speak up.=C2=
=A0 Please provide<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; motivation for your response.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If things do not resolve clearly on their own, the chair=
s will (as is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; required) reach a determination anyway, but WG clarity i=
s preferred.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thank you,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Joel<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; sfc mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sf=
c</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; sfc mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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To: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>, Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
References: <ddd62bd9-cf50-afb4-69a9-5a16c192cd00@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzzWZM7S-KMkrXim8ZA-n1Pu7Xqp+QfahkjRet6PRCnWqA@mail.gmail.com> <2a7e8ef0-4528-663e-89f6-51a0ea729013@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzwajc6Q0Z+Rk1nsUuhbVAbxR9O+D+cTrB4OT=byRdi_=g@mail.gmail.com> <CAF4+nEEKQ+ka55EO=my7UjTp1A-BCbU332Gn2ZFYa2PhVyYVEQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+-tSzzJNHi9heGV5whrg57x0+n_t9QofP3LaqufTzof7UbSgQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Regarding draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support adoption call
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Isn't a lot of that general discussion already captured in RFC 6040?

Yours,
Joel

On 2/7/19 11:54 AM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> Hi Donald,
> 
> The functions are useful.  I just think they need more discussion before 
> it can be put in a WG document.  What is being suggested would be useful 
> for any tunneling technology, not just SFC.  And that's why it would 
> need wider discussion as to what information should be fed to the tunnel 
> ingress.
> 
> A couple of issues for example:
> - How does one treat ECT vs non-ECT sessions when making these decisions?
> - How do we know the feedback is accurate if there are no ECT sessions?
> 
> The document becomes a lot more straightforward if all it is dealing 
> with is propagation of ECN bits from inner to outer header and vice versa.
> 
> Thanks,
> Anoop
> 
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:08 PM Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com 
> <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Anoop,
> 
>     I'm willing to consider removing a lot of this but I don't understand
>     what's wrong with Section 1.3, item (3). Say you are a provider of SFC
>     services to many clients and client session are relatively long lived
>     and the services required by a client session can be provided through
>     any one of multiple SFF paths. When a new client session starts,
>     wouldn't the classified want to have congestion information about the
>     SFF paths in use by existing client sessions when choosing the SFF
>     path to be used by the new session?
> 
>     Thanks,
>     Donald
>     ===============================
>       Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
>       1424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA
>     d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
> 
>     On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:23 PM Anoop Ghanwani
>     <anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>> wrote:
>      >
>      > Hi Joel,
>      >
>      > If that is truly the case, then I think Sections 1.3 and 4 should
>     be removed.
>      >
>      > Otherwise, I myself am not clear what 1.3 and 4 are trying to
>      > accomplish and therefore would need clarification on that from the
>      > authors.
>      >
>      > Thanks,
>      > Anoop
>      >
>      > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern Direct
>      > <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>
>     wrote:
>      > >
>      > > I am pretty sure that what is intended is exactly what you say you
>      > > support, namely simple propagation of the information for the ECN
>      > > control loop, not a new loop.
>      > >
>      > > Can you suggest additional or modified owrding for the document
>     to help
>      > > make this clear to readers?
>      > >
>      > > Thank you,
>      > > Joel
>      > >
>      > > On 1/28/19 4:18 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
>      > > > I read the draft and had a clarification question about
>     Section 1.3
>      > > > and Section 4.
>      > > >
>      > > > Is the draft suggestion an alternate congestion control mechanism
>      > > > between tunnel ingress and tunnel egress which is working
>     separately
>      > > > from end-to-end congestion control that requires ECN?
>      > > >
>      > > > If it's just about propagation of bits for the original
>     feedback loop
>      > > > (i.e. before the tunnel header is added), I support the
>     draft.  If
>      > > > it's attempting to define a new congestion feedback loop and
>      > > > mechanism, I think it may need more discussion.
>      > > >
>      > > > Thanks,
>      > > > Anoop
>      > > >
>      > > > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joel M. Halpern
>     <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>      > > >>
>      > > >> While the time for the call has completed, I would like to
>     see the
>      > > >> current discussion resolve before judging the adoption as
>     chair (with Jim).
>      > > >> As a corollary, if anyone who has not spoken up has an
>     opinion about the
>      > > >> adoption, it is still VERY helpful if you speak up.  Please
>     provide
>      > > >> motivation for your response.
>      > > >>
>      > > >> If things do not resolve clearly on their own, the chairs
>     will (as is
>      > > >> required) reach a determination anyway, but WG clarity is
>     preferred.
>      > > >>
>      > > >> Thank you,
>      > > >> Joel
>      > > >>
>      > > >> _______________________________________________
>      > > >> sfc mailing list
>      > > >> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>      >
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > sfc mailing list
>      > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 


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From: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 10:10:19 -0800
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To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Regarding draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support adoption call
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Hi Joel,

I'm specifically referring to how the tunnel ingress should react to
congestion reports in terms of traffic engineering (selecting one tunnel
over another), which is the part that Donald is trying to retain in the
draft.

Is that what you're referring to?  If so, can you point to a specific
section in RFC 6040?  I took a quick look and I'm not able to find anything
about that.  All I see there is about propagation of ECN bits.

Thanks,
Anoop

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:17 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

> Isn't a lot of that general discussion already captured in RFC 6040?
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> On 2/7/19 11:54 AM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> > Hi Donald,
> >
> > The functions are useful.  I just think they need more discussion before
> > it can be put in a WG document.  What is being suggested would be useful
> > for any tunneling technology, not just SFC.  And that's why it would
> > need wider discussion as to what information should be fed to the tunnel
> > ingress.
> >
> > A couple of issues for example:
> > - How does one treat ECT vs non-ECT sessions when making these decisions?
> > - How do we know the feedback is accurate if there are no ECT sessions?
> >
> > The document becomes a lot more straightforward if all it is dealing
> > with is propagation of ECN bits from inner to outer header and vice
> versa.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Anoop
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:08 PM Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com
> > <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi Anoop,
> >
> >     I'm willing to consider removing a lot of this but I don't understand
> >     what's wrong with Section 1.3, item (3). Say you are a provider of
> SFC
> >     services to many clients and client session are relatively long lived
> >     and the services required by a client session can be provided through
> >     any one of multiple SFF paths. When a new client session starts,
> >     wouldn't the classified want to have congestion information about the
> >     SFF paths in use by existing client sessions when choosing the SFF
> >     path to be used by the new session?
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >     Donald
> >     ===============================
> >       Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
> >       1424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA
> >     d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
> >
> >     On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:23 PM Anoop Ghanwani
> >     <anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>> wrote:
> >      >
> >      > Hi Joel,
> >      >
> >      > If that is truly the case, then I think Sections 1.3 and 4 should
> >     be removed.
> >      >
> >      > Otherwise, I myself am not clear what 1.3 and 4 are trying to
> >      > accomplish and therefore would need clarification on that from the
> >      > authors.
> >      >
> >      > Thanks,
> >      > Anoop
> >      >
> >      > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern Direct
> >      > <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>
> >     wrote:
> >      > >
> >      > > I am pretty sure that what is intended is exactly what you say
> you
> >      > > support, namely simple propagation of the information for the
> ECN
> >      > > control loop, not a new loop.
> >      > >
> >      > > Can you suggest additional or modified owrding for the document
> >     to help
> >      > > make this clear to readers?
> >      > >
> >      > > Thank you,
> >      > > Joel
> >      > >
> >      > > On 1/28/19 4:18 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> >      > > > I read the draft and had a clarification question about
> >     Section 1.3
> >      > > > and Section 4.
> >      > > >
> >      > > > Is the draft suggestion an alternate congestion control
> mechanism
> >      > > > between tunnel ingress and tunnel egress which is working
> >     separately
> >      > > > from end-to-end congestion control that requires ECN?
> >      > > >
> >      > > > If it's just about propagation of bits for the original
> >     feedback loop
> >      > > > (i.e. before the tunnel header is added), I support the
> >     draft.  If
> >      > > > it's attempting to define a new congestion feedback loop and
> >      > > > mechanism, I think it may need more discussion.
> >      > > >
> >      > > > Thanks,
> >      > > > Anoop
> >      > > >
> >      > > > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joel M. Halpern
> >     <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
> >      > > >>
> >      > > >> While the time for the call has completed, I would like to
> >     see the
> >      > > >> current discussion resolve before judging the adoption as
> >     chair (with Jim).
> >      > > >> As a corollary, if anyone who has not spoken up has an
> >     opinion about the
> >      > > >> adoption, it is still VERY helpful if you speak up.  Please
> >     provide
> >      > > >> motivation for your response.
> >      > > >>
> >      > > >> If things do not resolve clearly on their own, the chairs
> >     will (as is
> >      > > >> required) reach a determination anyway, but WG clarity is
> >     preferred.
> >      > > >>
> >      > > >> Thank you,
> >      > > >> Joel
> >      > > >>
> >      > > >> _______________________________________________
> >      > > >> sfc mailing list
> >      > > >> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> >      > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >      >
> >      > _______________________________________________
> >      > sfc mailing list
> >      > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
> > sfc@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >
>

--000000000000fe738d058151c187
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Joel,<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m speci=
fically referring to how the tunnel ingress should react to congestion repo=
rts in terms of traffic engineering (selecting one tunnel over another), wh=
ich is the part that Donald is trying to retain in the draft.</div><div><br=
></div><div>Is that what you&#39;re referring to?=C2=A0 If so, can you poin=
t to a specific section in RFC 6040?=C2=A0 I took a quick look and I&#39;m =
not able to find anything about that.=C2=A0 All I see there is about propag=
ation of ECN bits.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Anoop</div></=
div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On=
 Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:17 AM Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joel=
halpern.com">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Isn&#39;t a lot of that general discussion=
 already captured in RFC 6040?<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
On 2/7/19 11:54 AM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi Donald,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The functions are useful.=C2=A0 I just think they need more discussion=
 before <br>
&gt; it can be put in a WG document.=C2=A0 What is being suggested would be=
 useful <br>
&gt; for any tunneling technology, not just SFC.=C2=A0 And that&#39;s why i=
t would <br>
&gt; need wider discussion as to what information should be fed to the tunn=
el <br>
&gt; ingress.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; A couple of issues for example:<br>
&gt; - How does one treat ECT vs non-ECT sessions when making these decisio=
ns?<br>
&gt; - How do we know the feedback is accurate if there are no ECT sessions=
?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The document becomes a lot more straightforward if all it is dealing <=
br>
&gt; with is propagation of ECN bits from inner to outer header and vice ve=
rsa.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Anoop<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:08 PM Donald Eastlake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
d3e3e3@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">d3e3e=
3@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Anoop,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I&#39;m willing to consider removing a lot of this =
but I don&#39;t understand<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what&#39;s wrong with Section 1.3, item (3). Say yo=
u are a provider of SFC<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0services to many clients and client session are rel=
atively long lived<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and the services required by a client session can b=
e provided through<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0any one of multiple SFF paths. When a new client se=
ssion starts,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wouldn&#39;t the classified want to have congestion=
 information about the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SFF paths in use by existing client sessions when c=
hoosing the SFF<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0path to be used by the new session?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Donald<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1-508-33=
3-2270 (cell)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA=
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:23 PM Anoop Ghanwani<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu" target=
=3D"_blank">anoop@alumni.duke.edu</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:anoop@al=
umni.duke.edu" target=3D"_blank">anoop@alumni.duke.edu</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<b=
r>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Hi Joel,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; If that is truly the case, then I think Secti=
ons 1.3 and 4 should<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be removed.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Otherwise, I myself am not clear what 1.3 and=
 4 are trying to<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; accomplish and therefore would need clarifica=
tion on that from the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; authors.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Anoop<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern =
Direct<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.=
com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalper=
n.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; I am pretty sure that what is intended i=
s exactly what you say you<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; support, namely simple propagation of th=
e information for the ECN<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; control loop, not a new loop.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; Can you suggest additional or modified o=
wrding for the document<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to help<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; make this clear to readers?<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; Thank you,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; Joel<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; On 1/28/19 4:18 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote=
:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; I read the draft and had a clarific=
ation question about<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 1.3<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; and Section 4.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; Is the draft suggestion an alternat=
e congestion control mechanism<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; between tunnel ingress and tunnel e=
gress which is working<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0separately<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; from end-to-end congestion control =
that requires ECN?<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; If it&#39;s just about propagation =
of bits for the original<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0feedback loop<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; (i.e. before the tunnel header is a=
dded), I support the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft.=C2=A0 If<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; it&#39;s attempting to define a new=
 congestion feedback loop and<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; mechanism, I think it may need more=
 discussion.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; Anoop<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joe=
l M. Halpern<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=
=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelha=
lpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; While the time for the call has=
 completed, I would like to<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; current discussion resolve befo=
re judging the adoption as<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0chair (with Jim).<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As a corollary, if anyone who h=
as not spoken up has an<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0opinion about the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; adoption, it is still VERY help=
ful if you speak up.=C2=A0 Please<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0provide<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; motivation for your response.<b=
r>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If things do not resolve clearl=
y on their own, the chairs<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0will (as is<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; required) reach a determination=
 anyway, but WG clarity is<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0preferred.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thank you,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Joel<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________=
________________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; sfc mailing list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; _____________________________________________=
__<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; sfc mailing list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/=
listinfo/sfc</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; sfc mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
&gt; <br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000fe738d058151c187--


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To: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
Cc: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
References: <ddd62bd9-cf50-afb4-69a9-5a16c192cd00@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzzWZM7S-KMkrXim8ZA-n1Pu7Xqp+QfahkjRet6PRCnWqA@mail.gmail.com> <2a7e8ef0-4528-663e-89f6-51a0ea729013@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzwajc6Q0Z+Rk1nsUuhbVAbxR9O+D+cTrB4OT=byRdi_=g@mail.gmail.com> <CAF4+nEEKQ+ka55EO=my7UjTp1A-BCbU332Gn2ZFYa2PhVyYVEQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+-tSzzJNHi9heGV5whrg57x0+n_t9QofP3LaqufTzof7UbSgQ@mail.gmail.com> <ded481e6-f3f4-7a35-6f73-4cbac0cb71eb@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzz5CPZnV1F1AsPBdfK54wc494Zy5DTgVJDjG3e+OixnLQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Regarding draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support adoption call
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I had not understood that you meant specifically the tunnel congestion 
feedback.  I see that there is already a normative reference to
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-tunnel-congestion-feedback-06

While that normative reference may create problems for completing the 
work, I do not see it as a problem for the working group adopting the 
document?  If TSVWG ends up not advancing that document, then presumably 
the corresponding sections o fthis document would be removed?

Yours,
Joel

On 2/7/19 1:10 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> 
> I'm specifically referring to how the tunnel ingress should react to 
> congestion reports in terms of traffic engineering (selecting one tunnel 
> over another), which is the part that Donald is trying to retain in the 
> draft.
> 
> Is that what you're referring to?  If so, can you point to a specific 
> section in RFC 6040?  I took a quick look and I'm not able to find 
> anything about that.  All I see there is about propagation of ECN bits.
> 
> Thanks,
> Anoop
> 
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:17 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com 
> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Isn't a lot of that general discussion already captured in RFC 6040?
> 
>     Yours,
>     Joel
> 
>     On 2/7/19 11:54 AM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
>      > Hi Donald,
>      >
>      > The functions are useful.  I just think they need more discussion
>     before
>      > it can be put in a WG document.  What is being suggested would be
>     useful
>      > for any tunneling technology, not just SFC.  And that's why it would
>      > need wider discussion as to what information should be fed to the
>     tunnel
>      > ingress.
>      >
>      > A couple of issues for example:
>      > - How does one treat ECT vs non-ECT sessions when making these
>     decisions?
>      > - How do we know the feedback is accurate if there are no ECT
>     sessions?
>      >
>      > The document becomes a lot more straightforward if all it is dealing
>      > with is propagation of ECN bits from inner to outer header and
>     vice versa.
>      >
>      > Thanks,
>      > Anoop
>      >
>      > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:08 PM Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com
>     <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
>      > <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     Hi Anoop,
>      >
>      >     I'm willing to consider removing a lot of this but I don't
>     understand
>      >     what's wrong with Section 1.3, item (3). Say you are a
>     provider of SFC
>      >     services to many clients and client session are relatively
>     long lived
>      >     and the services required by a client session can be provided
>     through
>      >     any one of multiple SFF paths. When a new client session starts,
>      >     wouldn't the classified want to have congestion information
>     about the
>      >     SFF paths in use by existing client sessions when choosing
>     the SFF
>      >     path to be used by the new session?
>      >
>      >     Thanks,
>      >     Donald
>      >     ===============================
>      >       Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
>      >       1424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA
>      > d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
>     <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>>
>      >
>      >     On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:23 PM Anoop Ghanwani
>      >     <anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
>     <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>>> wrote:
>      >      >
>      >      > Hi Joel,
>      >      >
>      >      > If that is truly the case, then I think Sections 1.3 and 4
>     should
>      >     be removed.
>      >      >
>      >      > Otherwise, I myself am not clear what 1.3 and 4 are trying to
>      >      > accomplish and therefore would need clarification on that
>     from the
>      >      > authors.
>      >      >
>      >      > Thanks,
>      >      > Anoop
>      >      >
>      >      > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern Direct
>      >      > <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>
>      >     wrote:
>      >      > >
>      >      > > I am pretty sure that what is intended is exactly what
>     you say you
>      >      > > support, namely simple propagation of the information
>     for the ECN
>      >      > > control loop, not a new loop.
>      >      > >
>      >      > > Can you suggest additional or modified owrding for the
>     document
>      >     to help
>      >      > > make this clear to readers?
>      >      > >
>      >      > > Thank you,
>      >      > > Joel
>      >      > >
>      >      > > On 1/28/19 4:18 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
>      >      > > > I read the draft and had a clarification question about
>      >     Section 1.3
>      >      > > > and Section 4.
>      >      > > >
>      >      > > > Is the draft suggestion an alternate congestion
>     control mechanism
>      >      > > > between tunnel ingress and tunnel egress which is working
>      >     separately
>      >      > > > from end-to-end congestion control that requires ECN?
>      >      > > >
>      >      > > > If it's just about propagation of bits for the original
>      >     feedback loop
>      >      > > > (i.e. before the tunnel header is added), I support the
>      >     draft.  If
>      >      > > > it's attempting to define a new congestion feedback
>     loop and
>      >      > > > mechanism, I think it may need more discussion.
>      >      > > >
>      >      > > > Thanks,
>      >      > > > Anoop
>      >      > > >
>      >      > > > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joel M. Halpern
>      >     <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
>      >      > > >>
>      >      > > >> While the time for the call has completed, I would
>     like to
>      >     see the
>      >      > > >> current discussion resolve before judging the adoption as
>      >     chair (with Jim).
>      >      > > >> As a corollary, if anyone who has not spoken up has an
>      >     opinion about the
>      >      > > >> adoption, it is still VERY helpful if you speak up. 
>     Please
>      >     provide
>      >      > > >> motivation for your response.
>      >      > > >>
>      >      > > >> If things do not resolve clearly on their own, the chairs
>      >     will (as is
>      >      > > >> required) reach a determination anyway, but WG clarity is
>      >     preferred.
>      >      > > >>
>      >      > > >> Thank you,
>      >      > > >> Joel
>      >      > > >>
>      >      > > >> _______________________________________________
>      >      > > >> sfc mailing list
>      >      > > >> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>      >      > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>      >      >
>      >      > _______________________________________________
>      >      > sfc mailing list
>      >      > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>      >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>      >
>      >
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > sfc mailing list
>      > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>      >
> 


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References: <ddd62bd9-cf50-afb4-69a9-5a16c192cd00@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzzWZM7S-KMkrXim8ZA-n1Pu7Xqp+QfahkjRet6PRCnWqA@mail.gmail.com> <2a7e8ef0-4528-663e-89f6-51a0ea729013@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzwajc6Q0Z+Rk1nsUuhbVAbxR9O+D+cTrB4OT=byRdi_=g@mail.gmail.com> <CAF4+nEEKQ+ka55EO=my7UjTp1A-BCbU332Gn2ZFYa2PhVyYVEQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+-tSzzJNHi9heGV5whrg57x0+n_t9QofP3LaqufTzof7UbSgQ@mail.gmail.com> <ded481e6-f3f4-7a35-6f73-4cbac0cb71eb@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzz5CPZnV1F1AsPBdfK54wc494Zy5DTgVJDjG3e+OixnLQ@mail.gmail.com> <98ac5f00-caaf-7df5-e68f-51500e4b6cdc@joelhalpern.com>
In-Reply-To: <98ac5f00-caaf-7df5-e68f-51500e4b6cdc@joelhalpern.com>
From: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 15:03:39 -0800
Message-ID: <CA+-tSzzd2dcV5Amvjd6pB-a8Nfdru-Etyvpm1h_vdD2F31ZU=w@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/0OXcSvB-D5I9Wm9kj4JIUQO8bI8>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Regarding draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support adoption call
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Hi Joel,

OK, I can see a case for leaving it in.

Thanks,
Anoop

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 11:20 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

> I had not understood that you meant specifically the tunnel congestion
> feedback.  I see that there is already a normative reference to
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-tunnel-congestion-feedback-06
>
> While that normative reference may create problems for completing the
> work, I do not see it as a problem for the working group adopting the
> document?  If TSVWG ends up not advancing that document, then presumably
> the corresponding sections o fthis document would be removed?
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> On 2/7/19 1:10 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> > Hi Joel,
> >
> > I'm specifically referring to how the tunnel ingress should react to
> > congestion reports in terms of traffic engineering (selecting one tunnel
> > over another), which is the part that Donald is trying to retain in the
> > draft.
> >
> > Is that what you're referring to?  If so, can you point to a specific
> > section in RFC 6040?  I took a quick look and I'm not able to find
> > anything about that.  All I see there is about propagation of ECN bits.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Anoop
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:17 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
> > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Isn't a lot of that general discussion already captured in RFC 6040?
> >
> >     Yours,
> >     Joel
> >
> >     On 2/7/19 11:54 AM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> >      > Hi Donald,
> >      >
> >      > The functions are useful.  I just think they need more discussion
> >     before
> >      > it can be put in a WG document.  What is being suggested would be
> >     useful
> >      > for any tunneling technology, not just SFC.  And that's why it
> would
> >      > need wider discussion as to what information should be fed to the
> >     tunnel
> >      > ingress.
> >      >
> >      > A couple of issues for example:
> >      > - How does one treat ECT vs non-ECT sessions when making these
> >     decisions?
> >      > - How do we know the feedback is accurate if there are no ECT
> >     sessions?
> >      >
> >      > The document becomes a lot more straightforward if all it is
> dealing
> >      > with is propagation of ECN bits from inner to outer header and
> >     vice versa.
> >      >
> >      > Thanks,
> >      > Anoop
> >      >
> >      > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:08 PM Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com
> >     <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
> >      > <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >      >
> >      >     Hi Anoop,
> >      >
> >      >     I'm willing to consider removing a lot of this but I don't
> >     understand
> >      >     what's wrong with Section 1.3, item (3). Say you are a
> >     provider of SFC
> >      >     services to many clients and client session are relatively
> >     long lived
> >      >     and the services required by a client session can be provided
> >     through
> >      >     any one of multiple SFF paths. When a new client session
> starts,
> >      >     wouldn't the classified want to have congestion information
> >     about the
> >      >     SFF paths in use by existing client sessions when choosing
> >     the SFF
> >      >     path to be used by the new session?
> >      >
> >      >     Thanks,
> >      >     Donald
> >      >     ===============================
> >      >       Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
> >      >       1424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA
> >      > d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
> >     <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>>
> >      >
> >      >     On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:23 PM Anoop Ghanwani
> >      >     <anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
> >     <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>>>
> wrote:
> >      >      >
> >      >      > Hi Joel,
> >      >      >
> >      >      > If that is truly the case, then I think Sections 1.3 and 4
> >     should
> >      >     be removed.
> >      >      >
> >      >      > Otherwise, I myself am not clear what 1.3 and 4 are trying
> to
> >      >      > accomplish and therefore would need clarification on that
> >     from the
> >      >      > authors.
> >      >      >
> >      >      > Thanks,
> >      >      > Anoop
> >      >      >
> >      >      > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern Direct
> >      >      > <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
> >     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
> >     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:
> jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>
> >      >     wrote:
> >      >      > >
> >      >      > > I am pretty sure that what is intended is exactly what
> >     you say you
> >      >      > > support, namely simple propagation of the information
> >     for the ECN
> >      >      > > control loop, not a new loop.
> >      >      > >
> >      >      > > Can you suggest additional or modified owrding for the
> >     document
> >      >     to help
> >      >      > > make this clear to readers?
> >      >      > >
> >      >      > > Thank you,
> >      >      > > Joel
> >      >      > >
> >      >      > > On 1/28/19 4:18 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> >      >      > > > I read the draft and had a clarification question about
> >      >     Section 1.3
> >      >      > > > and Section 4.
> >      >      > > >
> >      >      > > > Is the draft suggestion an alternate congestion
> >     control mechanism
> >      >      > > > between tunnel ingress and tunnel egress which is
> working
> >      >     separately
> >      >      > > > from end-to-end congestion control that requires ECN?
> >      >      > > >
> >      >      > > > If it's just about propagation of bits for the original
> >      >     feedback loop
> >      >      > > > (i.e. before the tunnel header is added), I support the
> >      >     draft.  If
> >      >      > > > it's attempting to define a new congestion feedback
> >     loop and
> >      >      > > > mechanism, I think it may need more discussion.
> >      >      > > >
> >      >      > > > Thanks,
> >      >      > > > Anoop
> >      >      > > >
> >      >      > > > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joel M. Halpern
> >      >     <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> >     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
> >      >      > > >>
> >      >      > > >> While the time for the call has completed, I would
> >     like to
> >      >     see the
> >      >      > > >> current discussion resolve before judging the
> adoption as
> >      >     chair (with Jim).
> >      >      > > >> As a corollary, if anyone who has not spoken up has an
> >      >     opinion about the
> >      >      > > >> adoption, it is still VERY helpful if you speak up.
> >     Please
> >      >     provide
> >      >      > > >> motivation for your response.
> >      >      > > >>
> >      >      > > >> If things do not resolve clearly on their own, the
> chairs
> >      >     will (as is
> >      >      > > >> required) reach a determination anyway, but WG
> clarity is
> >      >     preferred.
> >      >      > > >>
> >      >      > > >> Thank you,
> >      >      > > >> Joel
> >      >      > > >>
> >      >      > > >> _______________________________________________
> >      >      > > >> sfc mailing list
> >      >      > > >> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
> >      >      > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >      >      >
> >      >      > _______________________________________________
> >      >      > sfc mailing list
> >      >      > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
> >      >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > _______________________________________________
> >      > sfc mailing list
> >      > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >      >
> >
>

--000000000000106f5e058155db0d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Joel,<div><br></div><div>OK, I can see=
 a case for leaving it in.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Anoop=
</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 11:20 AM Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I had not understood that you mean=
t specifically the tunnel congestion <br>
feedback.=C2=A0 I see that there is already a normative reference to<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-tunnel-congestion-f=
eedback-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/htm=
l/draft-ietf-tsvwg-tunnel-congestion-feedback-06</a><br>
<br>
While that normative reference may create problems for completing the <br>
work, I do not see it as a problem for the working group adopting the <br>
document?=C2=A0 If TSVWG ends up not advancing that document, then presumab=
ly <br>
the corresponding sections o fthis document would be removed?<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
On 2/7/19 1:10 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi Joel,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I&#39;m specifically referring to how the tunnel ingress should react =
to <br>
&gt; congestion reports in terms of traffic engineering (selecting one tunn=
el <br>
&gt; over another), which is the part that Donald is trying to retain in th=
e <br>
&gt; draft.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Is that what you&#39;re referring to?=C2=A0 If so, can you point to a =
specific <br>
&gt; section in RFC 6040?=C2=A0 I took a quick look and I&#39;m not able to=
 find <br>
&gt; anything about that.=C2=A0 All I see there is about propagation of ECN=
 bits.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Anoop<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:17 AM Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j=
mh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jm=
h@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Isn&#39;t a lot of that general discussion already =
captured in RFC 6040?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 2/7/19 11:54 AM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Hi Donald,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; The functions are useful.=C2=A0 I just think =
they need more discussion<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0before<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; it can be put in a WG document.=C2=A0 What is=
 being suggested would be<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0useful<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; for any tunneling technology, not just SFC.=
=C2=A0 And that&#39;s why it would<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; need wider discussion as to what information =
should be fed to the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tunnel<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; ingress.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; A couple of issues for example:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; - How does one treat ECT vs non-ECT sessions =
when making these<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0decisions?<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; - How do we know the feedback is accurate if =
there are no ECT<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sessions?<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; The document becomes a lot more straightforwa=
rd if all it is dealing<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; with is propagation of ECN bits from inner to=
 outer header and<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vice versa.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Anoop<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:08 PM Donald Eastla=
ke &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.c=
om</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e=
3@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Anoop,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I&#39;m willing to conside=
r removing a lot of this but I don&#39;t<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0understand<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what&#39;s wrong with Sect=
ion 1.3, item (3). Say you are a<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0provider of SFC<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0services to many clients a=
nd client session are relatively<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0long lived<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and the services required =
by a client session can be provided<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0through<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0any one of multiple SFF pa=
ths. When a new client session starts,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wouldn&#39;t the classifie=
d want to have congestion information<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0about the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SFF paths in use by existi=
ng client sessions when choosing<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the SFF<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0path to be used by the new=
 session?<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Donald<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake =
3rd=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1-508-333-2270 (cell)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01424 Pro Shop Court=
, Davenport, FL 33896 USA<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:d3e3e3@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:=
23 PM Anoop Ghanwani<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anoo=
p@alumni.duke.edu" target=3D"_blank">anoop@alumni.duke.edu</a> &lt;mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu" target=3D"_blank">anoop@alumni.duke=
.edu</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu"=
 target=3D"_blank">anoop@alumni.duke.edu</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:a=
noop@alumni.duke.edu" target=3D"_blank">anoop@alumni.duke.edu</a>&gt;&gt;&g=
t; wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Hi Joel,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; If that is truly the=
 case, then I think Sections 1.3 and 4<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0should<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be removed.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Otherwise, I myself =
am not clear what 1.3 and 4 are trying to<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; accomplish and there=
fore would need clarification on that<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0from the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; authors.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Anoop<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; On Mon, Jan 28, 2019=
 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern Direct<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com<=
/a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern=
.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern=
.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; I am pretty sur=
e that what is intended is exactly what<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0you say you<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; support, namely=
 simple propagation of the information<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for the ECN<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; control loop, n=
ot a new loop.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; Can you suggest=
 additional or modified owrding for the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to help<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; make this clear=
 to readers?<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; Thank you,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; Joel<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; On 1/28/19 4:18=
 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; I read the=
 draft and had a clarification question about<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 1.3<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; and Sectio=
n 4.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; Is the dra=
ft suggestion an alternate congestion<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0control mechanism<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; between tu=
nnel ingress and tunnel egress which is working<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0separately<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; from end-t=
o-end congestion control that requires ECN?<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; If it&#39;=
s just about propagation of bits for the original<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0feedback loop<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; (i.e. befo=
re the tunnel header is added), I support the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft.=C2=A0 If<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; it&#39;s a=
ttempting to define a new congestion feedback<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0loop and<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; mechanism,=
 I think it may need more discussion.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<br=
>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; Anoop<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt; On Wed, Ja=
n 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joel M. Halpern<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@=
joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>=
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@j=
oelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote=
:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; While =
the time for the call has completed, I would<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0like to<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; curren=
t discussion resolve before judging the adoption as<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0chair (with Jim).<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As a c=
orollary, if anyone who has not spoken up has an<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0opinion about the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; adopti=
on, it is still VERY helpful if you speak up. <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Please<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0provide<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; motiva=
tion for your response.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If thi=
ngs do not resolve clearly on their own, the chairs<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0will (as is<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; requir=
ed) reach a determination anyway, but WG clarity is<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0preferred.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thank =
you,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Joel<b=
r>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; ______=
_________________________________________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; sfc ma=
iling list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a hre=
f=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; ____________________=
___________________________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; sfc mailing list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sf=
c@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=
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To: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
Cc: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
References: <ddd62bd9-cf50-afb4-69a9-5a16c192cd00@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzzWZM7S-KMkrXim8ZA-n1Pu7Xqp+QfahkjRet6PRCnWqA@mail.gmail.com> <2a7e8ef0-4528-663e-89f6-51a0ea729013@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzwajc6Q0Z+Rk1nsUuhbVAbxR9O+D+cTrB4OT=byRdi_=g@mail.gmail.com> <CAF4+nEEKQ+ka55EO=my7UjTp1A-BCbU332Gn2ZFYa2PhVyYVEQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+-tSzzJNHi9heGV5whrg57x0+n_t9QofP3LaqufTzof7UbSgQ@mail.gmail.com> <ded481e6-f3f4-7a35-6f73-4cbac0cb71eb@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzz5CPZnV1F1AsPBdfK54wc494Zy5DTgVJDjG3e+OixnLQ@mail.gmail.com> <98ac5f00-caaf-7df5-e68f-51500e4b6cdc@joelhalpern.com> <CA+-tSzzd2dcV5Amvjd6pB-a8Nfdru-Etyvpm1h_vdD2F31ZU=w@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Regarding draft-eastlake-sfc-nsh-ecn-support adoption call
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Okay.  With that, as chair I conclude that the working group has adopted 
this document.  Authors, please resubmit as draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support.

Yours,
Joel

On 2/7/19 6:03 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> 
> OK, I can see a case for leaving it in.
> 
> Thanks,
> Anoop
> 
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 11:20 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com 
> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
> 
>     I had not understood that you meant specifically the tunnel congestion
>     feedback.  I see that there is already a normative reference to
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-tunnel-congestion-feedback-06
> 
>     While that normative reference may create problems for completing the
>     work, I do not see it as a problem for the working group adopting the
>     document?  If TSVWG ends up not advancing that document, then
>     presumably
>     the corresponding sections o fthis document would be removed?
> 
>     Yours,
>     Joel
> 
>     On 2/7/19 1:10 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
>      > Hi Joel,
>      >
>      > I'm specifically referring to how the tunnel ingress should react to
>      > congestion reports in terms of traffic engineering (selecting one
>     tunnel
>      > over another), which is the part that Donald is trying to retain
>     in the
>      > draft.
>      >
>      > Is that what you're referring to?  If so, can you point to a
>     specific
>      > section in RFC 6040?  I took a quick look and I'm not able to find
>      > anything about that.  All I see there is about propagation of ECN
>     bits.
>      >
>      > Thanks,
>      > Anoop
>      >
>      > On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:17 AM Joel M. Halpern
>     <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>      > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     Isn't a lot of that general discussion already captured in
>     RFC 6040?
>      >
>      >     Yours,
>      >     Joel
>      >
>      >     On 2/7/19 11:54 AM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
>      >      > Hi Donald,
>      >      >
>      >      > The functions are useful.  I just think they need more
>     discussion
>      >     before
>      >      > it can be put in a WG document.  What is being suggested
>     would be
>      >     useful
>      >      > for any tunneling technology, not just SFC.  And that's
>     why it would
>      >      > need wider discussion as to what information should be fed
>     to the
>      >     tunnel
>      >      > ingress.
>      >      >
>      >      > A couple of issues for example:
>      >      > - How does one treat ECT vs non-ECT sessions when making these
>      >     decisions?
>      >      > - How do we know the feedback is accurate if there are no ECT
>      >     sessions?
>      >      >
>      >      > The document becomes a lot more straightforward if all it
>     is dealing
>      >      > with is propagation of ECN bits from inner to outer header and
>      >     vice versa.
>      >      >
>      >      > Thanks,
>      >      > Anoop
>      >      >
>      >      > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:08 PM Donald Eastlake
>     <d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
>      >     <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>>
>      >      > <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
>     <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>      >      >
>      >      >     Hi Anoop,
>      >      >
>      >      >     I'm willing to consider removing a lot of this but I don't
>      >     understand
>      >      >     what's wrong with Section 1.3, item (3). Say you are a
>      >     provider of SFC
>      >      >     services to many clients and client session are relatively
>      >     long lived
>      >      >     and the services required by a client session can be
>     provided
>      >     through
>      >      >     any one of multiple SFF paths. When a new client
>     session starts,
>      >      >     wouldn't the classified want to have congestion
>     information
>      >     about the
>      >      >     SFF paths in use by existing client sessions when choosing
>      >     the SFF
>      >      >     path to be used by the new session?
>      >      >
>      >      >     Thanks,
>      >      >     Donald
>      >      >     ===============================
>      >      >       Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
>      >      >       1424 Pro Shop Court, Davenport, FL 33896 USA
>      >      > d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
>     <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>>
>      >     <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
>     <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>>>
>      >      >
>      >      >     On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:23 PM Anoop Ghanwani
>      >      >     <anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
>     <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>>
>      >     <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
>     <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu <mailto:anoop@alumni.duke.edu>>>> wrote:
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      > Hi Joel,
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      > If that is truly the case, then I think Sections
>     1.3 and 4
>      >     should
>      >      >     be removed.
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      > Otherwise, I myself am not clear what 1.3 and 4 are
>     trying to
>      >      >      > accomplish and therefore would need clarification
>     on that
>      >     from the
>      >      >      > authors.
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      > Thanks,
>      >      >      > Anoop
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:20 PM Joel Halpern Direct
>      >      >      > <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>      >     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>
>      >     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>>
>      >      >     wrote:
>      >      >      > >
>      >      >      > > I am pretty sure that what is intended is exactly
>     what
>      >     you say you
>      >      >      > > support, namely simple propagation of the information
>      >     for the ECN
>      >      >      > > control loop, not a new loop.
>      >      >      > >
>      >      >      > > Can you suggest additional or modified owrding
>     for the
>      >     document
>      >      >     to help
>      >      >      > > make this clear to readers?
>      >      >      > >
>      >      >      > > Thank you,
>      >      >      > > Joel
>      >      >      > >
>      >      >      > > On 1/28/19 4:18 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote:
>      >      >      > > > I read the draft and had a clarification
>     question about
>      >      >     Section 1.3
>      >      >      > > > and Section 4.
>      >      >      > > >
>      >      >      > > > Is the draft suggestion an alternate congestion
>      >     control mechanism
>      >      >      > > > between tunnel ingress and tunnel egress which
>     is working
>      >      >     separately
>      >      >      > > > from end-to-end congestion control that
>     requires ECN?
>      >      >      > > >
>      >      >      > > > If it's just about propagation of bits for the
>     original
>      >      >     feedback loop
>      >      >      > > > (i.e. before the tunnel header is added), I
>     support the
>      >      >     draft.  If
>      >      >      > > > it's attempting to define a new congestion feedback
>      >     loop and
>      >      >      > > > mechanism, I think it may need more discussion.
>      >      >      > > >
>      >      >      > > > Thanks,
>      >      >      > > > Anoop
>      >      >      > > >
>      >      >      > > > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:14 PM Joel M. Halpern
>      >      >     <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>      >     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>> wrote:
>      >      >      > > >>
>      >      >      > > >> While the time for the call has completed, I would
>      >     like to
>      >      >     see the
>      >      >      > > >> current discussion resolve before judging the
>     adoption as
>      >      >     chair (with Jim).
>      >      >      > > >> As a corollary, if anyone who has not spoken
>     up has an
>      >      >     opinion about the
>      >      >      > > >> adoption, it is still VERY helpful if you
>     speak up.
>      >     Please
>      >      >     provide
>      >      >      > > >> motivation for your response.
>      >      >      > > >>
>      >      >      > > >> If things do not resolve clearly on their own,
>     the chairs
>      >      >     will (as is
>      >      >      > > >> required) reach a determination anyway, but WG
>     clarity is
>      >      >     preferred.
>      >      >      > > >>
>      >      >      > > >> Thank you,
>      >      >      > > >> Joel
>      >      >      > > >>
>      >      >      > > >> _______________________________________________
>      >      >      > > >> sfc mailing list
>      >      >      > > >> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>      >     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>>
>      >      >      > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      > _______________________________________________
>      >      >      > sfc mailing list
>      >      >      > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      >     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>>
>      >      >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >      > _______________________________________________
>      >      > sfc mailing list
>      >      > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>      >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>      >      >
>      >
> 


From nobody Fri Feb  8 05:46:43 2019
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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH)
        Authors         : Donald E. Eastlake
                          Bob Briscoe
                          Andrew G. Malis
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-00.txt
	Pages           : 21
	Date            : 2019-02-07

Abstract:
   Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to
   notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having
   to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed back information about
   congestion to upstream nodes, this can improve network efficiency
   through better congestion control, frequently without packet drops.
   This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback support within a
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain through use of the Network
   Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX,
   draft-ietf-tsvwg-tunnel-congestion-feedback).



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From nobody Fri Feb  8 07:57:44 2019
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Service Function Chaining: Subscriber and Performance Policy Identification Variable-Length Network Service Header (NSH) Context Headers
        Authors         : Behcet Sarikaya
                          Dirk von Hugo
                          Mohamed Boucadair
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-02.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2019-02-08

Abstract:
   This document defines Subscriber and Performance Policy Identifiers
   Network Service Header Variable-Length Context Headers to inform
   Service Functions about subscriber- and service-related information
   for the sake of policy enforcement and appropriate service function
   chaining operations.  The structure of each context header is
   defined, their use and processing instructions by SFC-aware nodes are
   explained.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-02
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From nobody Tue Feb 12 08:06:04 2019
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Subject: [sfc] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
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Dear Donald E. Eastlake 3rd, Bob Briscoe, Andrew G. Malis:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled
"Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion Feedback Using
the Network Service Header (NSH)" (draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support) was
submitted to the IETF Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page
of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3424/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to
draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat


From nobody Tue Feb 12 08:38:52 2019
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 11:38:33 -0500
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Subject: [sfc] Fwd: IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
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--000000000000ffb8ea0581b50e74
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

SFCers,

Please note the IPR disclosure below regarding
draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support. Donald and I had tried to get it done while
this was still an individual draft, but due to an internal backlog followed
by the Chinese New Year celebration, it was delayed until today. Please
reply on the WG list if you have any questions or concerns regarding this
disclosure.

Thanks,
Andy

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-ipr@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 11:06 AM
Subject: IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR
related to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
To: <draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org>
Cc: <ipr-announce@ietf.org>, <sfc@ietf.org>

Dear Donald E. Eastlake 3rd, Bob Briscoe, Andrew G. Malis:

An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled
"Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion Feedback Using
the Network Service Header (NSH)" (draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support) was
submitted to the IETF Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page
of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3424/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to
draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat

--000000000000ffb8ea0581b50e74
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">SFCers,<div><br></div><div>Please note the IPR disclosure =
below regarding draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support. Donald and I had tried to g=
et it done while this was still an individual draft, but due to an internal=
 backlog followed by the Chinese New Year celebration, it was delayed until=
 today. Please reply on the WG list if you have any questions or concerns r=
egarding this disclosure.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Andy<b=
r><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">----=
------ Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class=3D"gmail_senderna=
me" dir=3D"auto">IETF Secretariat</strong> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:ietf-ipr@ietf.org">ietf-ipr@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Tue, F=
eb 12, 2019 at 11:06 AM<br>Subject: IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co.,=
 Ltd&#39;s Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support<br=
>To:  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org">draft-=
ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Cc:  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ipr=
-announce@ietf.org">ipr-announce@ietf.org</a>&gt;,  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:s=
fc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></div><br>Dear Donald E. Eastlake 3rd,=
 Bob Briscoe, Andrew G. Malis:<br>
<br>An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled<br>
&quot;Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion Feedback Using<=
br>
the Network Service Header (NSH)&quot; (draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support) was=
<br>
submitted to the IETF Secretariat on=C2=A0 and has been posted on the &quot=
;IETF Page<br>
of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures&quot;<br>
(<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3424/" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3424/</a>). The title of the=
 IPR disclosure is<br>
&quot;Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd&#39;s Statement about IPR related to<br>
draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support&quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
Thank you<br>
<br>
IETF Secretariat<br>
</div></div></div>

--000000000000ffb8ea0581b50e74--


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Hi Dirk, et al.,
I've updated the Active SFC OAM draft to address comments from Dirk. Much
appreciate your feedback whether changes captured and resolved them all.
Will post the new version after your response.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 4:41 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Dirk,
> thank you for your kind words about the drafts, thoughtful comments, and
> the most helpful suggestions. Will work on updating drafts and will share
> the proposed changes with you shortly.
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 8:06 AM <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have read both drafts on extending SFC OAM by adding a reply path TLV
>> for testing SFPs and for checking consistency of SFPs.
>>
>> I believe that for operators such measures are very useful when SFC is
>> deployed in future networks and logical network slices.
>>
>>
>>
>> As both drafts rely on adopted WG draft
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01 I also had
>> a look at that one.
>>
>> Comments and nits:
>>
>> P.4:
>>
>> the service SFP1 may be realized through two RSPs, RSP1(SF1--SF3--SF5)
>> and RSP2(SF2--SF4--SF5). =3D>
>>
>> the service SFP1 may be realized through two independent RSPs,
>> RSP1(SF1--SF3--SF5) and RSP2(SF2--SF4--SF6).
>>
>> Since IMO there are further possible RSPs as SF1=E2=80=94SF4--SF5, SF1=
=E2=80=94SF3=E2=80=94SF6,
>> etc.
>>
>> P.7:
>>
>> BFD =3D> BFD (Bidirectional Forwarding Detection)
>>
>> P.8:
>>
>>    o  Reply via Specified Path (TBA7) =3D>    o  Reply via Specified Pat=
h
>> (TBA8)
>>
>> P.9/p.10:
>>
>> *5.2*
>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01#section-5=
.2>*.
>> SFC Echo Request Reception*
>>
>> *5.4*
>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01#section-5=
.4>*.
>> Overlay Echo Reply Reception*
>>
>> There is still text missing in both sections
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding the main drafts in focus here I only have very minor comments
>> (nits) on draft-ao-sfc-oam-returned-path-specified-02:
>>
>> P.2:
>>
>> [RFC7665], For example, =3D> [RFC7665]. For example,
>>
>> P.3:
>>
>> the SFC Reply Path TLV Section 4. =3D> the SFC Reply Path TLV as describ=
ed
>> in Section 4.
>>
>> P.5:
>>
>> return path is a SFP =3D> return path is an SFP
>>
>> SFP,it is assumed that the last SFF doesn't know the reply path of a SFC
>>
>> =3D> SFP, it is assumed that the last SFF doesn't know the reply path of=
 an
>> SFC
>>
>>
>>
>> And on draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt:
>>
>> P.2:
>>
>> Sometimes, a SF needs to =3D> Sometimes, an SF needs to
>>
>> P.4:
>>
>> following values Section 5.1 =3D> following values further detailed in
>> Section 5.1
>>
>> as as described in Section=3D> as is described in Section
>>
>> P.6:
>>
>> list of the SFs are in load balance group
>>
>> =3D> list of the SFs which are in included in a load balance group.
>>
>> P.8/9:
>>
>> TBA1-TBA4, TBA6-TBA8 are requested but no TBA5?!
>>
>>
>>
>> As already said I think the extensions are useful and I see no open gaps=
.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *ao.ting@zte.com.cn
>> *Sent:* Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2019 15:42
>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* [sfc] Fw:New Version Notification for
>> draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all=EF=BC=8C
>>
>>
>>
>> We have updated a new version for draft draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistenc=
y-04
>> based on the discussion in the mailist. The main change is the COAM Repl=
y
>> message for load balance scenario in section 3.4.2.  Any comments are
>> always welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> We think both draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04(
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04) and
>> draft-ao-sfc-oam-returned-path-specified-02(
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified-02)
>> are ready. We request for the consideration of the WG adoption.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards.
>>
>> Ting Ao
>>
>>
>>
>> =E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6
>>
>> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet=
-drafts@ietf.org>
>>
>> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.=
com>;=E6=95=96=E5=A9=B700071246;Kent Leung <
>> kleung@cisco.com>;Zhonghua Chen <18918588897@189.cn>;Greg Mirsky <
>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>;
>>
>> *=E6=97=A5 **=E6=9C=9F **=EF=BC=9A*2018=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8827=E6=97=A5 1=
6:26
>>
>> *=E4=B8=BB **=E9=A2=98 **=EF=BC=9ANew Version Notification for
>> draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt*
>>
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Ting Ao and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Name:        draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency
>> Revision:    04
>> Title:        SFC OAM for path consistency
>> Document date:    2018-12-27
>> Group:        Individual Submission
>> Pages:        11
>> URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-0=
4.txt
>> Status:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency/
>> Htmlized:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04
>> Htmlized:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency
>> Diff:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    Service Function Chain (SFC) defines an ordered set of service
>>    functions (SFs) to be applied to packets and/or frames and/or flows
>>    selected as a result of classification.  SFC Operation,
>>    Administration and Maintenance can monitor the continuity of the SFC,
>>    i.e., that all elements of the SFC are reachable to each other in the
>>    downstream direction.  But SFC OAM must support verification that the
>>    order of traversing these SFs corresponds to the state defined by the
>>    SFC control plane or orchestrator, the metric referred in this
>>    document as the path consistency of the SFC.  This document defines a
>>    new SFC OAM method to support SFC consistency check, i.e.
>>    verification that all elements of the given SFC are being traversed
>>    in the expected order.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submis=
sion
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Dirk, et al.,<div>I&#39;ve updated the Active SFC OAM d=
raft to address comments from Dirk. Much appreciate your feedback whether c=
hanges captured and resolved them all. Will post the new version after your=
=C2=A0response.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tu=
e, Feb 5, 2019 at 4:41 PM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gma=
il.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Dirk,<div>thank you for yo=
ur kind words about the drafts, thoughtful comments, and the most helpful s=
uggestions. Will work on updating drafts and will share the proposed change=
s with you shortly.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>=
Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm=
ail_attr">On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 8:06 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hug=
o@telekom.de" target=3D"_blank">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"DE">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_8114321587207779879gmail-m_-1097296677082361760WordSe=
ction1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I have read both drafts on ex=
tending SFC OAM by adding a reply path TLV for testing SFPs and for checkin=
g consistency
 of SFPs.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I believe that for operators =
such measures are very useful when SFC is deployed in future networks and l=
ogical network
 slices.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As both drafts rely on adopte=
d WG draft</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01</a>
 I also had a look at that one.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Comments and nits:<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.4:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas;color:black">the service SFP1 may be realized through two RSP=
s, RSP1(SF1--SF3--SF5) and RSP2(SF2--SF4--SF5). =3D&gt;<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas;color:black">the service SFP1 may be realized through two ind=
ependent RSPs, RSP1(SF1--SF3--SF5) and RSP2(SF2--SF4--SF6).</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rg=
b(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Since IMO there are further p=
ossible RSPs as SF1=E2=80=94SF4--SF5, SF1=E2=80=94SF3=E2=80=94SF6, etc.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.7:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">BFD=
 =3D&gt; BFD (Bidirectional Forwarding Detection)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.8:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Reply via Specified Path (T=
BA7) =3D&gt; =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0o=C2=A0 Reply via Specified Path (TBA8)<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.9/p.10:<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<a name=3D"m_8114321587207779879_m_-1097296677082361760_section-5.2"></a><a=
 href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01#sect=
ion-5.2" target=3D"_blank"><span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">5.2</span></b></span=
><span></span></a><span></span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:1=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">.=C2=A0
 SFC Echo Request Reception<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<a name=3D"m_8114321587207779879_m_-1097296677082361760_section-5.4"></a><a=
 href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-01#sect=
ion-5.4" target=3D"_blank"><span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">5.4</span></b></span=
><span></span></a><span></span><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:1=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">.=C2=A0
 Overlay Echo Reply Reception<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas;color:black">There is still text missing in both sections<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regarding the main drafts in =
focus here I only have very minor comments (nits) on
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;background:white">draft-ao-sfc-oam-returned-path-specified-02:</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.2:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">[RF=
C7665], For example, =3D&gt; [RFC7665]. For example,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.3:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">the SFC Reply Path TLV Sect=
ion 4. =3D&gt; the SFC Reply Path TLV as described in Section 4.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.5:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">ret=
urn path is a SFP =3D&gt; return path is an SFP
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">SFP,it is assumed that the =
last SFF doesn&#39;t know the reply path of a SFC
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">=3D&gt; SFP, it is assumed =
that the last SFF doesn&#39;t know the reply path of an SFC<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">And on
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif">draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt:</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,1=
25)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.2:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">Som=
etimes, a SF needs to =3D&gt; Sometimes, an SF needs to</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.4:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">fol=
lowing values Section 5.1 =3D&gt; following values further detailed in Sect=
ion 5.1</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">as =
as described in Section=3D&gt; as is described in Section</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(31,78,121)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.6:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">list of the SFs are in load=
 balance group
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">=3D&gt; list of the SFs whi=
ch are in included in a load balance group.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">P.8/9:<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245)">TBA1-TBA4, TBA6-TBA8 are re=
quested but no TBA5?!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">As already said I think the e=
xtensions are useful and I see no open gaps.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">Kind regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">Dirk<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sf=
c-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:ao.ting@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank"=
>ao.ting@zte.com.cn</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2019 15:42<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] Fw:New Version Notification for draft-ao-sfc-oam-path=
-consistency-04.txt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Hi all</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=EF=
=BC=8C</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">We have up=
dated a new version for draft=C2=A0<span style=3D"background:white">draft-a=
o-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04 based on the discussion in the mailist. The m=
ain change is the COAM Reply message for
 load balance scenario in section 3.4.2.=C2=A0 Any comments are always welc=
ome.</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background:=
white">We think both draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04(<a href=3D"https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04</a>)
 and draft-ao-sfc-oam-returned-path-specified-02(<a href=3D"https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified-02" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified-02</a>) a=
re ready. We request for the consideration
 of the WG adoption.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Best Regar=
ds.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:15pt"><span class=3D"gmail-=
m_8114321587207779879gmail-m_-1097296677082361760signedit"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,142,211)">Ting Ao<=
/span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:15pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center;line-hei=
ght:21pt;background:rgb(224,229,233)">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;;color:rgb(19,136,255)">=E5=
=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&q=
uot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(19,136,255)">=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6</span><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(19,136,255)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_8114321587207779879gmail-m_-1097296677082361760zwriteHis=
toryContainer">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:rgb(245,246,248)"><strong><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E5=8F=91=
=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</span></strong><span class=3D"gmail-m_811432158=
7207779879gmail-m_-1097296677082361760zreadusername"><a href=3D"mailto:inte=
rnet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:rgb(245,246,248)"><strong><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=
=BC=9A</span></strong><span class=3D"gmail-m_8114321587207779879gmail-m_-10=
97296677082361760zreadusername">Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregim=
irsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;;</span><sp=
an class=3D"gmail-m_8114321587207779879gmail-m_-1097296677082361760zreaduse=
rname"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=95=96=E5=A9=B7=
</span>00071246;Kent
 Leung &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kleung@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">kleung@cis=
co.com</a>&gt;;Zhonghua Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:18918588897@189.cn" targ=
et=3D"_blank">18918588897@189.cn</a>&gt;;Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;;</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:rgb(245,246,248)"><strong><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=97=A5</span>
</strong><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=9C=
=9F</span> </strong><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot=
;">=EF=BC=9A</span></strong>2018<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&=
quot;">=E5=B9=B4</span>12<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=
=E6=9C=88</span>27<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=97=
=A5</span>
 16:26<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:rgb(245,246,248)"><strong><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E4=B8=BB</span>
</strong><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,=
sans-serif">=E9=A2=98</span>
</strong><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=EF=BC=
=9A</span>New Version Notification for draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04=
.txt</strong><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
A=C2=A0new=C2=A0version=C2=A0of=C2=A0I-D,=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consis=
tency-04.txt<br>
has=C2=A0been=C2=A0successfully=C2=A0submitted=C2=A0by=C2=A0Ting=C2=A0Ao=C2=
=A0and=C2=A0posted=C2=A0to=C2=A0the<br>
IETF=C2=A0repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-=
consistency<br>
Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A004<br>
Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0OAM=C2=A0for=
=C2=A0path=C2=A0consistency<br>
Document=C2=A0date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02018-12-27<br>
Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Individual=C2=A0Submi=
ssion<br>
Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A011<br>
URL:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-co=
nsistency-04.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/dr=
aft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency/" target=3D=
"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency=
/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency-04</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency<=
/a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a h=
ref=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistenc=
y-04" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ao-sfc-oa=
m-path-consistency-04</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Service=C2=A0Function=C2=A0Chain=C2=A0(SFC)=C2=A0defines=
=C2=A0an=C2=A0ordered=C2=A0set=C2=A0of=C2=A0service<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0functions=C2=A0(SFs)=C2=A0to=C2=A0be=C2=A0applied=C2=A0to=
=C2=A0packets=C2=A0and/or=C2=A0frames=C2=A0and/or=C2=A0flows<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0selected=C2=A0as=C2=A0a=C2=A0result=C2=A0of=C2=A0classifi=
cation.=C2=A0=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0Operation,<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Administration=C2=A0and=C2=A0Maintenance=C2=A0can=C2=A0mo=
nitor=C2=A0the=C2=A0continuity=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0SFC,<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0i.e.,=C2=A0that=C2=A0all=C2=A0elements=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=
=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0are=C2=A0reachable=C2=A0to=C2=A0each=C2=A0other=C2=A0in=C2=
=A0the<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0downstream=C2=A0direction.=C2=A0=C2=A0But=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0O=
AM=C2=A0must=C2=A0support=C2=A0verification=C2=A0that=C2=A0the<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0order=C2=A0of=C2=A0traversing=C2=A0these=C2=A0SFs=C2=A0co=
rresponds=C2=A0to=C2=A0the=C2=A0state=C2=A0defined=C2=A0by=C2=A0the<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0control=C2=A0plane=C2=A0or=C2=A0orchestrator,=C2=
=A0the=C2=A0metric=C2=A0referred=C2=A0in=C2=A0this<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0document=C2=A0as=C2=A0the=C2=A0path=C2=A0consistency=C2=
=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0SFC.=C2=A0=C2=A0This=C2=A0document=C2=A0defines=C2=A0a<=
br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0new=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0OAM=C2=A0method=C2=A0to=C2=A0support=C2=
=A0SFC=C2=A0consistency=C2=A0check,=C2=A0i.e.<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0verification=C2=A0that=C2=A0all=C2=A0elements=C2=A0of=C2=
=A0the=C2=A0given=C2=A0SFC=C2=A0are=C2=A0being=C2=A0traversed<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0in=C2=A0the=C2=A0expected=C2=A0order.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<br>
<br>
<br>
Please=C2=A0note=C2=A0that=C2=A0it=C2=A0may=C2=A0take=C2=A0a=C2=A0couple=C2=
=A0of=C2=A0minutes=C2=A0from=C2=A0the=C2=A0time=C2=A0of=C2=A0submission<br>
until=C2=A0the=C2=A0htmlized=C2=A0version=C2=A0and=C2=A0diff=C2=A0are=C2=A0=
available=C2=A0at=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The=C2=A0IETF=C2=A0Secretariat<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 10:47:48 -0500
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Subject: [sfc] netdev0x13 - ietf related topics
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--000000000000e80cf2058204d014
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi,



Please find among many others some IETF related topics [1] that will be
discussed at netdev0x13 just before the IETF meeting in Pragues.



Early bird registration is open until February 20. !!!!



Netdev 0x13 will be held at Hotel Grandium
<https://www.hotel-grandium.cz/en/> in Prague, this spring March 20th -
22th, 2019


Yours,

Daniel



[1] https://www.netdevconf.org/0x13/IETF-relevant-talks.html

--000000000000e80cf2058204d014
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><p clas=
s=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;fo=
nt-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hi,<span></span></p>

<p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Please find among many others some IET=
F related topics [1] that will be
discussed at netdev0x13 just before the IETF meeting in Pragues.<span></spa=
n></p>

<p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Early bird registration is open until=
=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:11pt">February 20.=C2=A0</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt">!!!!</span></p><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D=
"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><sp=
an></span></p>

<p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>=C2=A0</span></p><p class=3D"gma=
il-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size:small">Netdev 0x13 will be held at </span><a href=3D"https://www=
.hotel-grandium.cz/en/" style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small">Hotel Grandium</a><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small"> in Prague, this spring March                 2=
0th - 22th, 2019</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span></p><p c=
lass=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt=
;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><br></span>=
</p>

<p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Yours,<span></span></p>

<p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Daniel</p><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainTe=
xt" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[1] <a href=3D"https://www.netdevconf.=
org/0x13/IETF-relevant-talks.html" style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decora=
tion:underline">https://www.netdevconf.org/0x13/IETF-relevant-talks.html</a=
><span></span></p>

<p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>

</div></div></div></div>

--000000000000e80cf2058204d014--


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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: [sfc] draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-dc-allocation
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I was trying to see what items I had forgotten for this working group, 
and looked at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-dc-allocation/

We issued a working group last call for this Informational document last 
September.  At the time, there was very little support for it.  Given 
the lack of interest, I think we have to conclude that the working group 
does not see value in publishing this.  If the authors wish to take it 
to the Independent Stream, they are free to do so.

If someone sees evidence I have missed, please speak up.

Yours,
Joel


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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
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To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: ops-dir@ietf.org, mpls@ietf.org,  draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org,  IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, sfc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [sfc] [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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Carlos,

Many thanks for your review! I'm also including the SFC WG on my reply.

Comments inline.

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:58 PM Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>
wrote:

> Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
> Review result: Has Issues
>
> Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
> Review Result: Has Issues
>
> I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's
> ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.
> These
> comments were written with the intent of improving the operational aspects
> of
> the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be
> included
> in AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and WG chairs
> should
> treat these comments just like any other last call comments.
>
> This document is highly readable, includes very clear textual
> descriptions, and
> is very well organized. Easy to read in its simplicity. However, it would
> benefit from a more explicit connection to the transport encap mechanics
> from
> RFC 8300 (e.g., S4, S6.1). Specifically, I'd recommend adding a Figure or
> an
> SFF NSH Mapping Table example, to depict and/or exemplify the SFF function.
>

I'm trying to envision what would make a good figure here. We could add an
additional line to Table 1 of RFC 8300 and reference that table:

      +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+

      | SPI  | SI   | Next Hop(s)         | Transport Encapsulation |
      +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+

      | 25   | 220  | Label 5467          | MPLS                    |

      +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+


Is that what you had in mind? If not, I'm open to other suggestions.


>
> >From an Operational standpoint, the document seems largely appropriate in
> terms
> of dataplane considerations. Some key considerations are explicitly out of
> scope:
>    The method used by the downstream receiving node to advertise SFF
>    Labels to the upstream sending node is out of scope of this document.
>
> This really seems to mean that, with the simple definition in this
> Informational document, interoperable implementations cannot yet exist. If
> there is no mechanism to advertise the SFF Label or to manage the
> semantics of
> this particular label, how will it know? Static configuration, which is not
> covered anyway, is not in my humble opinion a manageable scalable approach.
>

Actually, while it is outside the scope of this document, it is within the
scope of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, and text is being added to
the next revision of that draft to show how it can be used to signal the
encapsulation defined here. This was worked out after this draft was
forwarded to the IESG, but we can now add a reference to that draft seeing
as we'll be doing a post-last-call update.


>
> Title: MPLS Encapsulation For The SFC NSH
>
> RFC 8300 makes an explicit distinction between the terms 'encapsulation'
> and
> 'transport encapsulation' (see e.g., Figure 1, Section 1.5 5., and Section
> 4 of
> RFC 8300).
>
> It seems to me that this is the "MPLS Transport Encapsulation for the SFC
> NSH"
>

Thanks, we'll fix that.


>
> 2.  MPLS Encapsulation Using an SFF Label
>
> Similarly, "2. MPLS Transport Encapsulation Using an SFF Label"
>
>    The encapsulation is a standard MPLS label stack [RFC3032] with an
>    SFF Label at the bottom of the stack, followed by a NSH as defined by
>    [RFC8300] and the NSH payload.
>
> Insteadf of "NSH payload" I think "orignal packet" is meant.
>

RFC 8300 uses both "payload" and "original packet/frame", but the latter
more than the former. So we can change "payload" to "original packet/frame".


>
> Also, this encapsulation is Underdefined: What is the value of TTL? TC?
>

I've been looking back at other related RFCs (such as PW and IP VPN label
definitions) and they're also mostly silent on these values. I did find the
following in RFC 6073:

   The setting of the TTL of the PW MPLS
   label is a matter of local policy on the originating PE, but SHOULD
   be set to 255.


Regarding the TC, we can follow the example of RFC 6391:

   This document does not define a use for the Traffic Class (TC) field
   [RFC5462 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5462>] (formerly known as
the Experimental Use (EXP) bits
   [RFC3032 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3032>]) in the flow label.
Future documents may define a use for
   these bits; therefore, implementations conforming to this
   specification MUST set the TC field to zero at the ingress and MUST
   ignore them at the egress.


Do you have any alternative suggestions?


>
>    Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label is allocated by the
>    downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label space.
>
> A PW Label is more restrictive. RFC 8077 says it MUST be allocated as
> per-platform:
>
>    egress LSR only.  Note that the PW label must always be at the bottom
>    of the packet's label stack, and labels MUST be allocated from the
>    per-platform label space.
>
> Is this the case for the SFF Label as well? If so, what is the implication
> of
> the MUST? If not, why is it different than other equivalent similar labels?
>

We can change the text to:

 Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label MUST be allocated by the
downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label space, since the
meaning of the label is identical independent of which incoming interface
it is received [RFC3031].


>    2.  Push the SFF Label to identify the desired SFF in the receiving
>        MPLS node.
>
> TTL value? 1? 2? 255 for GTSM? GTSM RFC 5082 could be used here.
>

As I noted above, 255, although I used RFC 6073 as my source rather than
5082. We'll add that here as well.


> 4.  Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Considerations
>
>    OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300].
>    However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer.  If so,
>    then standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms such as the Generic
>    Associated Channel [RFC5586] label may be used.
>
> RFC 5586 is _not_ an OAM mechanism. It is an associated channel creation
> mechanism, over which OAM could be carried.
>
> Thus, what traditional MPLS OAM can be carried here? Things like RFC 4379
> / RFC
> 8029 would need the definition of an SFF Label FEC (which does not exist).
> Which other one? IP/ICMP seems of very limited value.
>

That's a good point about RFC 5586. The intention is that the MPLS OAM
would be at the transport label layer above the SFF label, so most any
MPLS-layer OAM would be applicable. So how about rewording to make that
more clear:

OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300].
However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer.  If so, then
standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms may be used at the transport label layer
(the labels above the SFF label).


>
> 6.  Security Considerations
>
> Have you considered the use of GTSM?
>

No, we hadn't. Can you point me to any examples of GTSM being used in an
MPLS or PW context?


>
> 8.  References
>
>    [RFC7665]  Halpern, J., Ed. and C. Pignataro, Ed., "Service Function
>               Chaining (SFC) Architecture", RFC 7665,
>               DOI 10.17487/RFC7665, October 2015,
>               <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665>.
>
> SHould RFC 7665 be Normative? It defines the "SFF" which is quite central
> to
> understanding this document.
>

Good point. It was there because 7665 is an Informational RFC, but RFC 8067
does allow normative references to informational RFCs, so I'll move it.


>
> Other Nits and Editorials:
>
>    SFF Labels are similar to other service labels at the bottom of an
>    MPLS label stack that denote the contents of the MPLS payload being
>    other than IP, such as a layer 2 pseudowire, an IP packet that is
>    routed in a VPN context with a private address, or an Ethernet
>    virtual private wire service.
>
> This says "being other than IP, such as IP", which seems to be
> self-contradictory :-)
>
> :-)

How about we change "other than IP," to "other than a normally routed IP
packet",

Thanks again,
Andy

--000000000000bd572905826b55f9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Carlos,</div><div><br></div><div>Man=
y thanks for your review! I&#39;m also including the SFC WG on my reply.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Comments inline.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:58 PM Car=
los Pignataro &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpignata@cisco.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">R=
eviewer: Carlos Pignataro<br>Review result: Has Issues<br>
<br>Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro<br>Review Result: Has Issues<br>
<br>I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate&#3=
9;s<br>ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the I=
ESG.=C2=A0 These<br>comments were written with the intent of improving the =
operational aspects of<br>the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed =
in last call may be included<br>in AD reviews during the IESG review.=C2=A0=
 Document editors and WG chairs should<br>treat these comments just like an=
y other last call comments.<br>
<br>This document is highly readable, includes very clear textual descripti=
ons, and<br>is very well organized. Easy to read in its simplicity. However=
, it would<br>benefit from a more explicit connection to the transport enca=
p mechanics from<br>RFC 8300 (e.g., S4, S6.1). Specifically, I&#39;d recomm=
end adding a Figure or an<br>SFF NSH Mapping Table example, to depict and/o=
r exemplify the SFF function.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m t=
rying to envision what would make a good figure here. We could add an addit=
ional line to Table 1 of RFC 8300 and reference that table:</div><div><br><=
/div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-=
top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">      +------=
+------+---------------------+-------------------------+</pre><pre class=3D=
"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0=
px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">      | SPI  | SI   | Next Hop(s)   =
      | Transport Encapsulation |
      +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+</pre>=
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">      | 25   | 220  | L=
abel 5467          | MPLS                    |</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-new=
page" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-b=
efore:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">      +------+------+---------------------+---=
----------------------+</pre><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">=
</div><div>Is that what you had in mind? If not, I&#39;m open to other sugg=
estions.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex">
<br>&gt;From an Operational standpoint, the document seems largely appropri=
ate in terms<br>of dataplane considerations. Some key considerations are ex=
plicitly out of<br>scope:<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The method used by the downstream=
 receiving node to advertise SFF<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Labels to the upstream sen=
ding node is out of scope of this document.<br>
<br>This really seems to mean that, with the simple definition in this<br>I=
nformational document, interoperable implementations cannot yet exist. If<b=
r>there is no mechanism to advertise the SFF Label or to manage the semanti=
cs of<br>this particular label, how will it know? Static configuration, whi=
ch is not<br>covered anyway, is not in my humble opinion a manageable scala=
ble approach.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually, while it is out=
side the scope of this document, it is within the scope of=C2=A0draft-ietf-=
bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, and text is being added to the next revision of=
 that draft to show how it can be used to signal the encapsulation defined =
here. This was worked out after this draft was forwarded to the IESG, but w=
e can now add a reference to that draft seeing as we&#39;ll be doing a post=
-last-call update.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">
<br>Title: MPLS Encapsulation For The SFC NSH<br>
<br>RFC 8300 makes an explicit distinction between the terms &#39;encapsula=
tion&#39; and<br>&#39;transport encapsulation&#39; (see e.g., Figure 1, Sec=
tion 1.5 5., and Section 4 of<br>RFC 8300).<br>
<br>It seems to me that this is the &quot;MPLS Transport Encapsulation for =
the SFC NSH&quot;<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks, we&#39;ll fix=
 that.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">
<br>2.=C2=A0 MPLS Encapsulation Using an SFF Label<br>
<br>Similarly, &quot;2. MPLS Transport Encapsulation Using an SFF Label&quo=
t;<br>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The encapsulation is a standard MPLS label stack [RFC3032]=
 with an<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFF Label at the bottom of the stack, followed by =
a NSH as defined by<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC8300] and the NSH payload.<br>
<br>Insteadf of &quot;NSH payload&quot; I think &quot;orignal packet&quot; =
is meant.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>RFC 8300 uses both &quot;payl=
oad&quot; and &quot;original packet/frame&quot;, but the latter more than t=
he former. So we can change &quot;payload&quot; to &quot;original packet/fr=
ame&quot;.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">
<br>Also, this encapsulation is Underdefined: What is the value of TTL? TC?=
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve been looking back at other re=
lated RFCs (such as PW and IP VPN label definitions) and they&#39;re also m=
ostly silent on these values. I did find the following in RFC 6073:</div><d=
iv><br></div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px=
;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">   Th=
e setting of the TTL of the PW MPLS
   label is a matter of local policy on the originating PE, but SHOULD
   be set to 255.</pre></div><div><br></div><div>Regarding the TC, we can f=
ollow the example of RFC 6391:</div><div><br></div><div><pre class=3D"gmail=
-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;bre=
ak-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">   This document does not define a use for=
 the Traffic Class (TC) field
   [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5462" title=3D"&quot;Multipro=
tocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Stack Entry: &quot;">RFC5462</a>] (forme=
rly known as the Experimental Use (EXP) bits
   [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3032" title=3D"&quot;MPLS Lab=
el Stack Encoding&quot;">RFC3032</a>]) in the flow label.  Future documents=
 may define a use for
   these bits; therefore, implementations conforming to this
   specification MUST set the TC field to zero at the ingress and MUST
   ignore them at the egress.
</pre><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div>Do you have =
any alternative suggestions?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label is allocated by=
 the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform l=
abel space.<br>
<br>A PW Label is more restrictive. RFC 8077 says it MUST be allocated as<b=
r>per-platform:<br>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0egress LSR only.=C2=A0 Note that the PW label must always =
be at the bottom<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the packet&#39;s label stack, and label=
s MUST be allocated from the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0per-platform label space.<br>
<br>Is this the case for the SFF Label as well? If so, what is the implicat=
ion of<br>the MUST? If not, why is it different than other equivalent simil=
ar labels?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We can change the text to:</=
div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label MU=
ST be allocated by the downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform=
 label space, since the meaning of the label is identical independent of wh=
ich incoming interface it is received [RFC3031].</div><div><br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A02.=C2=A0 Push the SFF Label to identify the desired SFF in=
 the receiving<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MPLS node.<br>
<br>TTL value? 1? 2? 255 for GTSM? GTSM RFC 5082 could be used here.<br></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>As I noted above, 255, although I used RFC 60=
73 as my source rather than 5082. We&#39;ll add that here as well.</div><di=
v><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>4.=C2=A0 Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Consideratio=
ns<br>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms =
[RFC8300].<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transpo=
rt layer.=C2=A0 If so,<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0then standard MPLS-layer OAM mechani=
sms such as the Generic<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Associated Channel [RFC5586] label =
may be used.<br>
<br>RFC 5586 is _not_ an OAM mechanism. It is an associated channel creatio=
n<br>mechanism, over which OAM could be carried.<br>
<br>Thus, what traditional MPLS OAM can be carried here? Things like RFC 43=
79 / RFC<br>8029 would need the definition of an SFF Label FEC (which does =
not exist).<br>Which other one? IP/ICMP seems of very limited value.<br></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>That&#39;s a good point about RFC 5586. The i=
ntention is that the MPLS OAM would be at the transport label layer above t=
he SFF label, so most any MPLS-layer OAM would be applicable. So how about =
rewording to make that more clear:</div><div><br></div><div>OAM at the SFC =
Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300]. However, OAM may be r=
equired at the MPLS transport layer.=C2=A0 If so, then standard MPLS-layer =
OAM mechanisms may be used at the transport label layer (the labels above t=
he SFF label).<br></div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">
<br>6.=C2=A0 Security Considerations<br>
<br>Have you considered the use of GTSM?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><di=
v>No, we hadn&#39;t. Can you point me to any examples of GTSM being used in=
 an MPLS or PW context?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">
<br>8.=C2=A0 References<br>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC7665]=C2=A0 Halpern, J., Ed. and C. Pignataro, Ed., &q=
uot;Service Function<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ch=
aining (SFC) Architecture&quot;, RFC 7665,<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOI 10.17487/RFC7665, October 2015,<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.or=
g/info/rfc7665" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor=
.org/info/rfc7665</a>&gt;.<br>
<br>SHould RFC 7665 be Normative? It defines the &quot;SFF&quot; which is q=
uite central to<br>understanding this document.<br></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>Good point. It was there because 7665 is an Informational RFC, but=
 RFC 8067 does allow normative references to informational RFCs, so I&#39;l=
l move it.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">
<br>Other Nits and Editorials:<br>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFF Labels are similar to other service labels at the bott=
om of an<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0MPLS label stack that denote the contents of the M=
PLS payload being<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0other than IP, such as a layer 2 pseudowi=
re, an IP packet that is<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0routed in a VPN context with a pri=
vate address, or an Ethernet<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0virtual private wire service.<=
br>
<br>This says &quot;being other than IP, such as IP&quot;, which seems to b=
e<br>self-contradictory :-)<br><br></blockquote><div>:-)</div><div><br></di=
v><div>How about we change &quot;other than IP,&quot; to &quot;other than a=
 normally routed IP packet&quot;,</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks again,</d=
iv><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000bd572905826b55f9--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
CC: "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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Subject: Re: [sfc] [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 09:27:41 -0500
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org>,  IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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Carlos,

Looks good on all but one point - I think I see why you're referencing
GTSM, since packets at the SFC layer would generally be one hop away from
each other at that layer. Is that correct? However, I really don't have
sufficient experience with GTSM to craft specific text. If you think it's
important enough to include, could you propose some text for me to include?

Thanks again,
Andy


On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 8:41 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi, Andy,
>
> On Feb 21, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Carlos,
>
> Many thanks for your review! I'm also including the SFC WG on my reply.
>
>
> Thanks for the quick response, and for considering the comments!
>
> I enjoyed reading this document =E2=80=94 please see below.
>
>
> Comments inline.
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:58 PM Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
>> Review result: Has Issues
>>
>> Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
>> Review Result: Has Issues
>>
>> I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's
>> ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.
>> These
>> comments were written with the intent of improving the operational
>> aspects of
>> the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be
>> included
>> in AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and WG chairs
>> should
>> treat these comments just like any other last call comments.
>>
>> This document is highly readable, includes very clear textual
>> descriptions, and
>> is very well organized. Easy to read in its simplicity. However, it woul=
d
>> benefit from a more explicit connection to the transport encap mechanics
>> from
>> RFC 8300 (e.g., S4, S6.1). Specifically, I'd recommend adding a Figure o=
r
>> an
>> SFF NSH Mapping Table example, to depict and/or exemplify the SFF
>> function.
>>
>
> I'm trying to envision what would make a good figure here. We could add a=
n
> additional line to Table 1 of RFC 8300 and reference that table:
>
>       +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
>
>       | SPI  | SI   | Next Hop(s)         | Transport Encapsulation |
>       +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
>
>       | 25   | 220  | Label 5467          | MPLS                    |
>
>       +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
>
>
> Is that what you had in mind? If not, I'm open to other suggestions.
>
>
> If you think it helps, this would be a good addition.
>
>
>
>>
>> >From an Operational standpoint, the document seems largely appropriate
>> in terms
>> of dataplane considerations. Some key considerations are explicitly out =
of
>> scope:
>>    The method used by the downstream receiving node to advertise SFF
>>    Labels to the upstream sending node is out of scope of this document.
>>
>> This really seems to mean that, with the simple definition in this
>> Informational document, interoperable implementations cannot yet exist. =
If
>> there is no mechanism to advertise the SFF Label or to manage the
>> semantics of
>> this particular label, how will it know? Static configuration, which is
>> not
>> covered anyway, is not in my humble opinion a manageable scalable
>> approach.
>>
>
> Actually, while it is outside the scope of this document, it is within th=
e
> scope of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, and text is being added t=
o
> the next revision of that draft to show how it can be used to signal the
> encapsulation defined here. This was worked out after this draft was
> forwarded to the IESG, but we can now add a reference to that draft seein=
g
> as we'll be doing a post-last-call update.
>
>
> I think that will help, as an Informative =E2=80=9Cone embodiment=E2=80=
=9D type of link.
>
>
>
>>
>> Title: MPLS Encapsulation For The SFC NSH
>>
>> RFC 8300 makes an explicit distinction between the terms 'encapsulation'
>> and
>> 'transport encapsulation' (see e.g., Figure 1, Section 1.5 5., and
>> Section 4 of
>> RFC 8300).
>>
>> It seems to me that this is the "MPLS Transport Encapsulation for the SF=
C
>> NSH"
>>
>
> Thanks, we'll fix that.
>
>
>>
>> 2.  MPLS Encapsulation Using an SFF Label
>>
>> Similarly, "2. MPLS Transport Encapsulation Using an SFF Label"
>>
>>    The encapsulation is a standard MPLS label stack [RFC3032] with an
>>    SFF Label at the bottom of the stack, followed by a NSH as defined by
>>    [RFC8300] and the NSH payload.
>>
>> Insteadf of "NSH payload" I think "orignal packet" is meant.
>>
>
> RFC 8300 uses both "payload" and "original packet/frame", but the latter
> more than the former. So we can change "payload" to "original packet/fram=
e".
>
>
>>
>> Also, this encapsulation is Underdefined: What is the value of TTL? TC?
>>
>
> I've been looking back at other related RFCs (such as PW and IP VPN label
> definitions) and they're also mostly silent on these values. I did find t=
he
> following in RFC 6073:
>
>    The setting of the TTL of the PW MPLS
>    label is a matter of local policy on the originating PE, but SHOULD
>    be set to 255.
>
>
> Regarding the TC, we can follow the example of RFC 6391:
>
>    This document does not define a use for the Traffic Class (TC) field
>    [RFC5462 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5462>] (formerly known as the=
 Experimental Use (EXP) bits
>    [RFC3032 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3032>]) in the flow label.  F=
uture documents may define a use for
>    these bits; therefore, implementations conforming to this
>    specification MUST set the TC field to zero at the ingress and MUST
>    ignore them at the egress.
>
>
> Do you have any alternative suggestions?
>
>
> These two approaches sounds good to me. And Ack to the other previous
> responses.
>
>
>
>>
>>    Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label is allocated by the
>>    downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label space.
>>
>> A PW Label is more restrictive. RFC 8077 says it MUST be allocated as
>> per-platform:
>>
>>    egress LSR only.  Note that the PW label must always be at the bottom
>>    of the packet's label stack, and labels MUST be allocated from the
>>    per-platform label space.
>>
>> Is this the case for the SFF Label as well? If so, what is the
>> implication of
>> the MUST? If not, why is it different than other equivalent similar
>> labels?
>>
>
> We can change the text to:
>
>  Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label MUST be allocated by the
> downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label space, since t=
he
> meaning of the label is identical independent of which incoming interface
> it is received [RFC3031].
>
>
> That=E2=80=99s a great improvement.
>
>
>>    2.  Push the SFF Label to identify the desired SFF in the receiving
>>        MPLS node.
>>
>> TTL value? 1? 2? 255 for GTSM? GTSM RFC 5082 could be used here.
>>
>
> As I noted above, 255, although I used RFC 6073 as my source rather than
> 5082. We'll add that here as well.
>
>
> Sounds good.
> These protocols use 5082 in one form or another:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5082/referencedby/
>
>
>> 4.  Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Considerations
>>
>>    OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300].
>>    However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer.  If so,
>>    then standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms such as the Generic
>>    Associated Channel [RFC5586] label may be used.
>>
>> RFC 5586 is _not_ an OAM mechanism. It is an associated channel creation
>> mechanism, over which OAM could be carried.
>>
>> Thus, what traditional MPLS OAM can be carried here? Things like RFC 437=
9
>> / RFC
>> 8029 would need the definition of an SFF Label FEC (which does not exist=
).
>> Which other one? IP/ICMP seems of very limited value.
>>
>
> That's a good point about RFC 5586. The intention is that the MPLS OAM
> would be at the transport label layer above the SFF label, so most any
> MPLS-layer OAM would be applicable. So how about rewording to make that
> more clear:
>
> OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300].
> However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer.  If so, then
> standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms may be used at the transport label lay=
er
> (the labels above the SFF label).
>
>
> Looks good to me, thank you.
>
>
>
>>
>> 6.  Security Considerations
>>
>> Have you considered the use of GTSM?
>>
>
> No, we hadn't. Can you point me to any examples of GTSM being used in an
> MPLS or PW context?
>
>
> Yes, see above.
>
>
>
>>
>> 8.  References
>>
>>    [RFC7665]  Halpern, J., Ed. and C. Pignataro, Ed., "Service Function
>>               Chaining (SFC) Architecture", RFC 7665,
>>               DOI 10.17487/RFC7665, October 2015,
>>               <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665>.
>>
>> SHould RFC 7665 be Normative? It defines the "SFF" which is quite centra=
l
>> to
>> understanding this document.
>>
>
> Good point. It was there because 7665 is an Informational RFC, but RFC
> 8067 does allow normative references to informational RFCs, so I'll move =
it.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>> Other Nits and Editorials:
>>
>>    SFF Labels are similar to other service labels at the bottom of an
>>    MPLS label stack that denote the contents of the MPLS payload being
>>    other than IP, such as a layer 2 pseudowire, an IP packet that is
>>    routed in a VPN context with a private address, or an Ethernet
>>    virtual private wire service.
>>
>> This says "being other than IP, such as IP", which seems to be
>> self-contradictory :-)
>>
>> :-)
>
> How about we change "other than IP," to "other than a normally routed IP
> packet=E2=80=9D,
>
>
> That would disambiguate it.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> To me, the control plane / advertisement was the most important
> operationally-relevant comment.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carlos.
>
>
> Thanks again,
> Andy
>
>
>

--0000000000006bfb4005827c65f7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Carlos,<div><br></div><div>Looks good on all but one point=
 - I think I see why you&#39;re referencing GTSM,=C2=A0since packets at the=
 SFC layer would generally be one hop away from each other at that layer. I=
s that correct? However, I really don&#39;t have sufficient experience with=
 GTSM to craft specific=C2=A0text. If you think it&#39;s important enough t=
o include, could you propose some text for me to include?</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Thanks again,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 21, 20=
19 at 8:41 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@ci=
sco.com">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
Hi, Andy,
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Feb 21, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agm=
alis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"gmail-m_-936565666933842416Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Carlos,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Many thanks for your review! I&#39;m also including the SFC WG on my r=
eply.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for the quick response, and for considering the comments!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I enjoyed reading this document =E2=80=94 please see below.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Comments inline.</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:58 PM Carl=
os Pignataro &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cp=
ignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro<br>
Review result: Has Issues<br>
<br>
Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro<br>
Review Result: Has Issues<br>
<br>
I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate&#39;s<=
br>
ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.=C2=
=A0 These<br>
comments were written with the intent of improving the operational aspects =
of<br>
the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be includ=
ed<br>
in AD reviews during the IESG review.=C2=A0 Document editors and WG chairs =
should<br>
treat these comments just like any other last call comments.<br>
<br>
This document is highly readable, includes very clear textual descriptions,=
 and<br>
is very well organized. Easy to read in its simplicity. However, it would<b=
r>
benefit from a more explicit connection to the transport encap mechanics fr=
om<br>
RFC 8300 (e.g., S4, S6.1). Specifically, I&#39;d recommend adding a Figure =
or an<br>
SFF NSH Mapping Table example, to depict and/or exemplify the SFF function.=
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I&#39;m trying to envision what would make a good figure here. We coul=
d add an additional line to Table 1 of RFC 8300 and reference that table:</=
div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_-936565666933842416gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">      +------=
+------+---------------------+-------------------------+</pre>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_-936565666933842416gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">      | SPI  =
| SI   | Next Hop(s)         | Transport Encapsulation |
      +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+</pre>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_-936565666933842416gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">      | 25   =
| 220  | Label 5467          | MPLS                    |</pre>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_-936565666933842416gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">      +------=
+------+---------------------+-------------------------+</pre>
<br class=3D"gmail-m_-936565666933842416gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div>Is that what you had in mind? If not, I&#39;m open to other suggestion=
s.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you think it helps, this would be a good addition.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
&gt;From an Operational standpoint, the document seems largely appropriate =
in terms<br>
of dataplane considerations. Some key considerations are explicitly out of<=
br>
scope:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The method used by the downstream receiving node to advertise =
SFF<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Labels to the upstream sending node is out of scope of this do=
cument.<br>
<br>
This really seems to mean that, with the simple definition in this<br>
Informational document, interoperable implementations cannot yet exist. If<=
br>
there is no mechanism to advertise the SFF Label or to manage the semantics=
 of<br>
this particular label, how will it know? Static configuration, which is not=
<br>
covered anyway, is not in my humble opinion a manageable scalable approach.=
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Actually, while it is outside the scope of this document, it is within=
 the scope of=C2=A0draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, and text is being=
 added to the next revision of that draft to show how it can be used to sig=
nal the encapsulation defined
 here. This was worked out after this draft was forwarded to the IESG, but =
we can now add a reference to that draft seeing as we&#39;ll be doing a pos=
t-last-call update.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think that will help, as an Informative =E2=80=9Cone embodiment=E2=
=80=9D type of link.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Title: MPLS Encapsulation For The SFC NSH<br>
<br>
RFC 8300 makes an explicit distinction between the terms &#39;encapsulation=
&#39; and<br>
&#39;transport encapsulation&#39; (see e.g., Figure 1, Section 1.5 5., and =
Section 4 of<br>
RFC 8300).<br>
<br>
It seems to me that this is the &quot;MPLS Transport Encapsulation for the =
SFC NSH&quot;<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks, we&#39;ll fix that.</div>
<div>=C2=A0<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
2.=C2=A0 MPLS Encapsulation Using an SFF Label<br>
<br>
Similarly, &quot;2. MPLS Transport Encapsulation Using an SFF Label&quot;<b=
r>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The encapsulation is a standard MPLS label stack [RFC3032] wit=
h an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFF Label at the bottom of the stack, followed by a NSH as def=
ined by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC8300] and the NSH payload.<br>
<br>
Insteadf of &quot;NSH payload&quot; I think &quot;orignal packet&quot; is m=
eant.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>RFC 8300 uses both &quot;payload&quot; and &quot;original packet/frame=
&quot;, but the latter more than the former. So we can change &quot;payload=
&quot; to &quot;original packet/frame&quot;.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Also, this encapsulation is Underdefined: What is the value of TTL? TC?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I&#39;ve been looking back at other related RFCs (such as PW and IP VP=
N label definitions) and they&#39;re also mostly silent on these values. I =
did find the following in RFC 6073:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_-936565666933842416gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">   The settin=
g of the TTL of the PW MPLS
   label is a matter of local policy on the originating PE, but SHOULD
   be set to 255.</pre>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding the TC, we can follow the example of RFC 6391:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_-936565666933842416gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">   This docum=
ent does not define a use for the Traffic Class (TC) field
   [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5462" title=3D"&quot;Multipro=
tocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Stack Entry: &quot;" target=3D"_blank">R=
FC5462</a>] (formerly known as the Experimental Use (EXP) bits
   [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3032" title=3D"&quot;MPLS Lab=
el Stack Encoding&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC3032</a>]) in the flow label.=
  Future documents may define a use for
   these bits; therefore, implementations conforming to this
   specification MUST set the TC field to zero at the ingress and MUST
   ignore them at the egress.
</pre>
<br class=3D"gmail-m_-936565666933842416gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div>Do you have any alternative suggestions?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These two approaches sounds good to me. And Ack to the other previous =
responses.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label is allocated by the=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label spa=
ce.<br>
<br>
A PW Label is more restrictive. RFC 8077 says it MUST be allocated as<br>
per-platform:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0egress LSR only.=C2=A0 Note that the PW label must always be a=
t the bottom<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the packet&#39;s label stack, and labels MUST be allocated =
from the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0per-platform label space.<br>
<br>
Is this the case for the SFF Label as well? If so, what is the implication =
of<br>
the MUST? If not, why is it different than other equivalent similar labels?=
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We can change the text to:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label MUST be allocated by =
the downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label space, since=
 the meaning of the label is identical independent of which incoming interf=
ace it is received [RFC3031].</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That=E2=80=99s a great improvement.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A02.=C2=A0 Push the SFF Label to identify the desired SFF in the=
 receiving<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MPLS node.<br>
<br>
TTL value? 1? 2? 255 for GTSM? GTSM RFC 5082 could be used here.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I noted above, 255, although I used RFC 6073 as my source rather th=
an 5082. We&#39;ll add that here as well.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sounds good.</div>
<div>These protocols use 5082 in one form or another:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5082/referencedby/" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5082/referencedby/</a></div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
4.=C2=A0 Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Considerations<b=
r>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC=
8300].<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer.=C2=
=A0 If so,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0then standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms such as the Generic<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Associated Channel [RFC5586] label may be used.<br>
<br>
RFC 5586 is _not_ an OAM mechanism. It is an associated channel creation<br=
>
mechanism, over which OAM could be carried.<br>
<br>
Thus, what traditional MPLS OAM can be carried here? Things like RFC 4379 /=
 RFC<br>
8029 would need the definition of an SFF Label FEC (which does not exist).<=
br>
Which other one? IP/ICMP seems of very limited value.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That&#39;s a good point about RFC 5586. The intention is that the MPLS=
 OAM would be at the transport label layer above the SFF label, so most any=
 MPLS-layer OAM would be applicable. So how about rewording to make that mo=
re clear:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300]. H=
owever, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer.=C2=A0 If so, then =
standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms may be used at the transport label layer=
 (the labels above the SFF label).<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Looks good to me, thank you.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>=C2=A0<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
6.=C2=A0 Security Considerations<br>
<br>
Have you considered the use of GTSM?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>No, we hadn&#39;t. Can you point me to any examples of GTSM being used=
 in an MPLS or PW context?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Yes, see above.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
8.=C2=A0 References<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC7665]=C2=A0 Halpern, J., Ed. and C. Pignataro, Ed., &quot;=
Service Function<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Chaining (SFC) Architectur=
e&quot;, RFC 7665,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOI 10.17487/RFC7665, Octo=
ber 2015,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"https://www=
.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://=
www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665</a>&gt;.<br>
<br>
SHould RFC 7665 be Normative? It defines the &quot;SFF&quot; which is quite=
 central to<br>
understanding this document.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good point. It was there because 7665 is an Informational RFC, but RFC=
 8067 does allow normative references to informational RFCs, so I&#39;ll mo=
ve it.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Thank you.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Other Nits and Editorials:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFF Labels are similar to other service labels at the bottom o=
f an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MPLS label stack that denote the contents of the MPLS payload =
being<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0other than IP, such as a layer 2 pseudowire, an IP packet that=
 is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routed in a VPN context with a private address, or an Ethernet=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0virtual private wire service.<br>
<br>
This says &quot;being other than IP, such as IP&quot;, which seems to be<br=
>
self-contradictory :-)<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div>:-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How about we change &quot;other than IP,&quot; to &quot;other than a n=
ormally routed IP packet=E2=80=9D,</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
That would disambiguate it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks again.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To me, the control plane / advertisement was the most important operat=
ionally-relevant comment.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlos.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks again,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--0000000000006bfb4005827c65f7--


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From: Joel Halpern <joel.halpern@ericsson.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
CC: "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:39:44 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/RWMmS_z_RMSxkSRI4gK-GPI1qnY>
Subject: Re: [sfc] [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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More generally, I do not think there is a requirement that SFF be only =
one MPLS-hop apart.  So I tend to doubt whether a reference to GTSM will =
be helpful.   Maybe I am missing the applicability?

Yours,

Joel

=20

From: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>=20
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 9:28 AM
To: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: ops-dir@ietf.org; mpls <mpls@ietf.org>; =
draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org; IETF Discussion =
<ietf@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Opsdir last call review of =
draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02

=20

Carlos,

=20

Looks good on all but one point - I think I see why you're referencing =
GTSM, since packets at the SFC layer would generally be one hop away =
from each other at that layer. Is that correct? However, I really don't =
have sufficient experience with GTSM to craft specific text. If you =
think it's important enough to include, could you propose some text for =
me to include?

=20

Thanks again,

Andy

=20

=20

On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 8:41 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
<cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com> > wrote:

Hi, Andy,=20

=20

On Feb 21, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com =
<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com> > wrote:

=20

Carlos,

=20

Many thanks for your review! I'm also including the SFC WG on my reply.

=20

Thanks for the quick response, and for considering the comments!

=20

I enjoyed reading this document =E2=80=94 please see below.





=20

Comments inline.

=20

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:58 PM Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com> > wrote:

Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
Review result: Has Issues

Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
Review Result: Has Issues

I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's
ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. =
 These
comments were written with the intent of improving the operational =
aspects of
the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be =
included
in AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and WG chairs =
should
treat these comments just like any other last call comments.

This document is highly readable, includes very clear textual =
descriptions, and
is very well organized. Easy to read in its simplicity. However, it =
would
benefit from a more explicit connection to the transport encap mechanics =
from
RFC 8300 (e.g., S4, S6.1). Specifically, I'd recommend adding a Figure =
or an
SFF NSH Mapping Table example, to depict and/or exemplify the SFF =
function.

=20

I'm trying to envision what would make a good figure here. We could add =
an additional line to Table 1 of RFC 8300 and reference that table:

=20

      +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
      | SPI  | SI   | Next Hop(s)         | Transport Encapsulation |
      +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
      | 25   | 220  | Label 5467          | MPLS                    |
      +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+

=20

Is that what you had in mind? If not, I'm open to other suggestions.

=20

If you think it helps, this would be a good addition.





=20


>From an Operational standpoint, the document seems largely appropriate =
in terms
of dataplane considerations. Some key considerations are explicitly out =
of
scope:
   The method used by the downstream receiving node to advertise SFF
   Labels to the upstream sending node is out of scope of this document.

This really seems to mean that, with the simple definition in this
Informational document, interoperable implementations cannot yet exist. =
If
there is no mechanism to advertise the SFF Label or to manage the =
semantics of
this particular label, how will it know? Static configuration, which is =
not
covered anyway, is not in my humble opinion a manageable scalable =
approach.

=20

Actually, while it is outside the scope of this document, it is within =
the scope of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, and text is being =
added to the next revision of that draft to show how it can be used to =
signal the encapsulation defined here. This was worked out after this =
draft was forwarded to the IESG, but we can now add a reference to that =
draft seeing as we'll be doing a post-last-call update.

=20

I think that will help, as an Informative =E2=80=9Cone =
embodiment=E2=80=9D type of link.





=20


Title: MPLS Encapsulation For The SFC NSH

RFC 8300 makes an explicit distinction between the terms 'encapsulation' =
and
'transport encapsulation' (see e.g., Figure 1, Section 1.5 5., and =
Section 4 of
RFC 8300).

It seems to me that this is the "MPLS Transport Encapsulation for the =
SFC NSH"

=20

Thanks, we'll fix that.

=20


2.  MPLS Encapsulation Using an SFF Label

Similarly, "2. MPLS Transport Encapsulation Using an SFF Label"

   The encapsulation is a standard MPLS label stack [RFC3032] with an
   SFF Label at the bottom of the stack, followed by a NSH as defined by
   [RFC8300] and the NSH payload.

Insteadf of "NSH payload" I think "orignal packet" is meant.

=20

RFC 8300 uses both "payload" and "original packet/frame", but the latter =
more than the former. So we can change "payload" to "original =
packet/frame".

=20


Also, this encapsulation is Underdefined: What is the value of TTL? TC?

=20

I've been looking back at other related RFCs (such as PW and IP VPN =
label definitions) and they're also mostly silent on these values. I did =
find the following in RFC 6073:

=20

   The setting of the TTL of the PW MPLS
   label is a matter of local policy on the originating PE, but SHOULD
   be set to 255.

=20

Regarding the TC, we can follow the example of RFC 6391:

=20

   This document does not define a use for the Traffic Class (TC) field
   [RFC5462 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5462> ] (formerly known as =
the Experimental Use (EXP) bits
   [RFC3032 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3032> ]) in the flow label.  =
Future documents may define a use for
   these bits; therefore, implementations conforming to this
   specification MUST set the TC field to zero at the ingress and MUST
   ignore them at the egress.

=20

Do you have any alternative suggestions?

=20

These two approaches sounds good to me. And Ack to the other previous =
responses.





=20


   Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label is allocated by the
   downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label space.

A PW Label is more restrictive. RFC 8077 says it MUST be allocated as
per-platform:

   egress LSR only.  Note that the PW label must always be at the bottom
   of the packet's label stack, and labels MUST be allocated from the
   per-platform label space.

Is this the case for the SFF Label as well? If so, what is the =
implication of
the MUST? If not, why is it different than other equivalent similar =
labels?

=20

We can change the text to:

=20

 Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label MUST be allocated by the =
downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label space, since =
the meaning of the label is identical independent of which incoming =
interface it is received [RFC3031].

=20

=20

That=E2=80=99s a great improvement.






   2.  Push the SFF Label to identify the desired SFF in the receiving
       MPLS node.

TTL value? 1? 2? 255 for GTSM? GTSM RFC 5082 could be used here.

=20

As I noted above, 255, although I used RFC 6073 as my source rather than =
5082. We'll add that here as well.

=20

=20

Sounds good.

These protocols use 5082 in one form or another: =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5082/referencedby/






4.  Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Considerations

   OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300].
   However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer.  If so,
   then standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms such as the Generic
   Associated Channel [RFC5586] label may be used.

RFC 5586 is _not_ an OAM mechanism. It is an associated channel creation
mechanism, over which OAM could be carried.

Thus, what traditional MPLS OAM can be carried here? Things like RFC =
4379 / RFC
8029 would need the definition of an SFF Label FEC (which does not =
exist).
Which other one? IP/ICMP seems of very limited value.

=20

That's a good point about RFC 5586. The intention is that the MPLS OAM =
would be at the transport label layer above the SFF label, so most any =
MPLS-layer OAM would be applicable. So how about rewording to make that =
more clear:

=20

OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300]. =
However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer.  If so, then =
standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms may be used at the transport label =
layer (the labels above the SFF label).

=20

Looks good to me, thank you.





=20


6.  Security Considerations

Have you considered the use of GTSM?

=20

No, we hadn't. Can you point me to any examples of GTSM being used in an =
MPLS or PW context?

=20

Yes, see above.





=20


8.  References

   [RFC7665]  Halpern, J., Ed. and C. Pignataro, Ed., "Service Function
              Chaining (SFC) Architecture", RFC 7665,
              DOI 10.17487/RFC7665, October 2015,
              <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665>.

SHould RFC 7665 be Normative? It defines the "SFF" which is quite =
central to
understanding this document.

=20

Good point. It was there because 7665 is an Informational RFC, but RFC =
8067 does allow normative references to informational RFCs, so I'll move =
it.

=20

=20

Thank you.






Other Nits and Editorials:

   SFF Labels are similar to other service labels at the bottom of an
   MPLS label stack that denote the contents of the MPLS payload being
   other than IP, such as a layer 2 pseudowire, an IP packet that is
   routed in a VPN context with a private address, or an Ethernet
   virtual private wire service.

This says "being other than IP, such as IP", which seems to be
self-contradictory :-)

:-)

=20

How about we change "other than IP," to "other than a normally routed IP =
packet=E2=80=9D,

=20

That would disambiguate it.

=20

Thanks again.

=20

To me, the control plane / advertisement was the most important =
operationally-relevant comment.

=20

Thanks,

=20

Carlos.





=20

Thanks again,

Andy

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>More =
generally, I do not think there is a requirement that SFF be only one =
MPLS-hop apart.=C2=A0 So I tend to doubt whether a reference to GTSM =
will be helpful. =C2=A0=C2=A0Maybe I am missing the =
applicability?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yours,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Joel<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> =
Andrew G. Malis &lt;agmalis@gmail.com&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, =
February 22, 2019 9:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
&lt;cpignata@cisco.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> ops-dir@ietf.org; mpls =
&lt;mpls@ietf.org&gt;; draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org; =
IETF Discussion &lt;ietf@ietf.org&gt;; sfc@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [mpls] Opsdir last call review of =
draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Carlos,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Looks good on all but one point - I think I see why =
you're referencing GTSM,&nbsp;since packets at the SFC layer would =
generally be one hop away from each other at that layer. Is that =
correct? However, I really don't have sufficient experience with GTSM to =
craft specific&nbsp;text. If you think it's important enough to include, =
could you propose some text for me to =
include?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks again,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Andy<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 8:41 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi, =
Andy, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Feb 21, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Carlos,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Many thanks =
for your review! I'm also including the SFC WG on my =
reply.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for the quick response, and for considering the =
comments!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
enjoyed reading this document =E2=80=94 please see =
below.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Comments =
inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>On Wed, Feb =
20, 2019 at 10:58 PM Carlos Pignataro &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Reviewer: =
Carlos Pignataro<br>Review result: Has Issues<br><br>Reviewer: Carlos =
Pignataro<br>Review Result: Has Issues<br><br>I have reviewed this =
document as part of the Operational directorate's<br>ongoing effort to =
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.&nbsp; =
These<br>comments were written with the intent of improving the =
operational aspects of<br>the IETF drafts. Comments that are not =
addressed in last call may be included<br>in AD reviews during the IESG =
review.&nbsp; Document editors and WG chairs should<br>treat these =
comments just like any other last call comments.<br><br>This document is =
highly readable, includes very clear textual descriptions, and<br>is =
very well organized. Easy to read in its simplicity. However, it =
would<br>benefit from a more explicit connection to the transport encap =
mechanics from<br>RFC 8300 (e.g., S4, S6.1). Specifically, I'd recommend =
adding a Figure or an<br>SFF NSH Mapping Table example, to depict and/or =
exemplify the SFF function.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I'm trying =
to envision what would make a good figure here. We could add an =
additional line to Table 1 of RFC 8300 and reference that =
table:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><pre =
style=3D'break-before:page'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
+------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+<o:p></o:p=
></pre><pre style=3D'break-before:page'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | =
SPI=C2=A0 | SI=C2=A0=C2=A0 | Next =
Hop(s)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | Transport =
Encapsulation |<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
+------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+<o:p></o:p=
></pre><pre style=3D'break-before:page'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | =
25=C2=A0=C2=A0 | 220=C2=A0 | Label =
5467=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | =
MPLS=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'break-before:page'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
+------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+<o:p></o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Is that =
what you had in mind? If not, I'm open to other =
suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>If you think it helps, this would be a good =
addition.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>&gt;From=
 an Operational standpoint, the document seems largely appropriate in =
terms<br>of dataplane considerations. Some key considerations are =
explicitly out of<br>scope:<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;The method used by the =
downstream receiving node to advertise SFF<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Labels to the =
upstream sending node is out of scope of this document.<br><br>This =
really seems to mean that, with the simple definition in =
this<br>Informational document, interoperable implementations cannot yet =
exist. If<br>there is no mechanism to advertise the SFF Label or to =
manage the semantics of<br>this particular label, how will it know? =
Static configuration, which is not<br>covered anyway, is not in my =
humble opinion a manageable scalable =
approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Actually, =
while it is outside the scope of this document, it is within the scope =
of&nbsp;draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, and text is being added =
to the next revision of that draft to show how it can be used to signal =
the encapsulation defined here. This was worked out after this draft was =
forwarded to the IESG, but we can now add a reference to that draft =
seeing as we'll be doing a post-last-call =
update.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I think that will help, as an Informative =E2=80=9Cone =
embodiment=E2=80=9D type of link.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>Title: =
MPLS Encapsulation For The SFC NSH<br><br>RFC 8300 makes an explicit =
distinction between the terms 'encapsulation' and<br>'transport =
encapsulation' (see e.g., Figure 1, Section 1.5 5., and Section 4 =
of<br>RFC 8300).<br><br>It seems to me that this is the &quot;MPLS =
Transport Encapsulation for the SFC =
NSH&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Thanks, =
we'll fix that.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>2.&nbsp;=
 MPLS Encapsulation Using an SFF Label<br><br>Similarly, &quot;2. MPLS =
Transport Encapsulation Using an SFF Label&quot;<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;The =
encapsulation is a standard MPLS label stack [RFC3032] with an<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;SFF Label at the bottom of the stack, followed by a NSH as defined =
by<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC8300] and the NSH payload.<br><br>Insteadf of =
&quot;NSH payload&quot; I think &quot;orignal packet&quot; is =
meant.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>RFC 8300 =
uses both &quot;payload&quot; and &quot;original packet/frame&quot;, but =
the latter more than the former. So we can change &quot;payload&quot; to =
&quot;original packet/frame&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>Also, =
this encapsulation is Underdefined: What is the value of TTL? =
TC?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I've been =
looking back at other related RFCs (such as PW and IP VPN label =
definitions) and they're also mostly silent on these values. I did find =
the following in RFC 6073:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><pre style=3D'break-before:page'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
The setting of the TTL of the PW MPLS<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
label is a matter of local policy on the originating PE, but =
SHOULD<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 be set to =
255.<o:p></o:p></pre></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Regarding =
the TC, we can follow the example of RFC =
6391:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><pre style=3D'break-before:page'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
This document does not define a use for the Traffic Class (TC) =
field<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5462" target=3D"_blank" =
title=3D"&quot;Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Stack Entry: =
&quot;">RFC5462</a>] (formerly known as the Experimental Use (EXP) =
bits<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3032" target=3D"_blank" =
title=3D"&quot;MPLS Label Stack Encoding&quot;">RFC3032</a>]) in the =
flow label.=C2=A0 Future documents may define a use =
for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 these bits; therefore, =
implementations conforming to this<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
specification MUST set the TC field to zero at the ingress and =
MUST<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 ignore them at the =
egress.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Do you have =
any alternative =
suggestions?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>These two approaches sounds good to me. And Ack to the =
other previous responses.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label is allocated by =
the<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform =
label space.<br><br>A PW Label is more restrictive. RFC 8077 says it =
MUST be allocated as<br>per-platform:<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;egress LSR =
only.&nbsp; Note that the PW label must always be at the =
bottom<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;of the packet's label stack, and labels MUST be =
allocated from the<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;per-platform label space.<br><br>Is =
this the case for the SFF Label as well? If so, what is the implication =
of<br>the MUST? If not, why is it different than other equivalent =
similar labels?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>We can =
change the text to:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;Much =
like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label MUST be allocated by the =
downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label space, since =
the meaning of the label is identical independent of which incoming =
interface it is received [RFC3031].<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>That=E2=80=99s a great =
improvement.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><block=
quote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in =
0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;2.&nbsp; Push the SFF Label to identify the desired SFF in the =
receiving<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;MPLS node.<br><br>TTL value? 1? =
2? 255 for GTSM? GTSM RFC 5082 could be used =
here.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>As I noted =
above, 255, although I used RFC 6073 as my source rather than 5082. =
We'll add that here as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sounds good.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>These protocols use 5082 in one form or =
another:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5082/referencedby/" =
target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5082/referencedby/<=
/a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><block=
quote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in =
0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>4.&nbsp;=
 Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) =
Considerations<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by =
SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300].<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;However, OAM may be =
required at the MPLS transport layer.&nbsp; If so,<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;then =
standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms such as the Generic<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Associated Channel [RFC5586] label may be used.<br><br>RFC 5586 is =
_not_ an OAM mechanism. It is an associated channel =
creation<br>mechanism, over which OAM could be carried.<br><br>Thus, =
what traditional MPLS OAM can be carried here? Things like RFC 4379 / =
RFC<br>8029 would need the definition of an SFF Label FEC (which does =
not exist).<br>Which other one? IP/ICMP seems of very limited =
value.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>That's a =
good point about RFC 5586. The intention is that the MPLS OAM would be =
at the transport label layer above the SFF label, so most any MPLS-layer =
OAM would be applicable. So how about rewording to make that more =
clear:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>OAM at the =
SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms [RFC8300]. However, OAM =
may be required at the MPLS transport layer.&nbsp; If so, then standard =
MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms may be used at the transport label layer (the =
labels above the SFF =
label).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Looks good to me, thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>6.&nbsp;=
 Security Considerations<br><br>Have you considered the use of =
GTSM?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>No, we =
hadn't. Can you point me to any examples of GTSM being used in an MPLS =
or PW =
context?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, see above.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>8.&nbsp;=
 References<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC7665]&nbsp; Halpern, J., Ed. and C. =
Pignataro, Ed., &quot;Service Function<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Chaining (SFC) Architecture&quot;, RFC =
7665,<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; DOI =
10.17487/RFC7665, October 2015,<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665</a>&gt;.<br><br=
>SHould RFC 7665 be Normative? It defines the &quot;SFF&quot; which is =
quite central to<br>understanding this =
document.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Good point. =
It was there because 7665 is an Informational RFC, but RFC 8067 does =
allow normative references to informational RFCs, so I'll move =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><block=
quote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in =
0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>Other =
Nits and Editorials:<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;SFF Labels are similar to other =
service labels at the bottom of an<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;MPLS label stack that =
denote the contents of the MPLS payload being<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;other than =
IP, such as a layer 2 pseudowire, an IP packet that is<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;routed in a VPN context with a private address, or an =
Ethernet<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;virtual private wire service.<br><br>This says =
&quot;being other than IP, such as IP&quot;, which seems to =
be<br>self-contradictory :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>:-)<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>How about =
we change &quot;other than IP,&quot; to &quot;other than a normally =
routed IP =
packet=E2=80=9D,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blo=
ckquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>That would disambiguate =
it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks again.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>To me, the control plane / advertisement was the most =
important operationally-relevant comment.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Carlos.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Thanks =
again,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Andy<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></d=
iv></body></html>
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To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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My comment on this may not have made it to everyone.  If you receive a 
duplicate, I apologize  (I received DMARC errors from something about 
translations from the draft.all address to gmail addresses.)

Speaking as a co-author...

It is not at all clear to me that GTSM applies or how it would apply. 
There is no requirement that successive SFF be one MPLS hop apart.

Yours,
Joel

On 2/22/19 9:27 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Carlos,
> 
> Looks good on all but one point - I think I see why you're referencing 
> GTSM, since packets at the SFC layer would generally be one hop away 
> from each other at that layer. Is that correct? However, I really don't 
> have sufficient experience with GTSM to craft specific text. If you 
> think it's important enough to include, could you propose some text for 
> me to include?
> 
> Thanks again,
> Andy
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 8:41 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) 
> <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi, Andy,
> 
>>     On Feb 21, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com
>>     <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Carlos,
>>
>>     Many thanks for your review! I'm also including the SFC WG on my
>>     reply.
> 
>     Thanks for the quick response, and for considering the comments!
> 
>     I enjoyed reading this document — please see below.
> 
>>
>>     Comments inline.
>>
>>     On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:58 PM Carlos Pignataro
>>     <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
>>         Review result: Has Issues
>>
>>         Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
>>         Review Result: Has Issues
>>
>>         I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational
>>         directorate's
>>         ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by
>>         the IESG.  These
>>         comments were written with the intent of improving the
>>         operational aspects of
>>         the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call
>>         may be included
>>         in AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and WG
>>         chairs should
>>         treat these comments just like any other last call comments.
>>
>>         This document is highly readable, includes very clear textual
>>         descriptions, and
>>         is very well organized. Easy to read in its simplicity.
>>         However, it would
>>         benefit from a more explicit connection to the transport encap
>>         mechanics from
>>         RFC 8300 (e.g., S4, S6.1). Specifically, I'd recommend adding
>>         a Figure or an
>>         SFF NSH Mapping Table example, to depict and/or exemplify the
>>         SFF function.
>>
>>
>>     I'm trying to envision what would make a good figure here. We
>>     could add an additional line to Table 1 of RFC 8300 and reference
>>     that table:
>>
>>            +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
>>            | SPI  | SI   | Next Hop(s)         | Transport Encapsulation |
>>            +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
>>            | 25   | 220  | Label 5467          | MPLS                    |
>>            +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
>>
>>     Is that what you had in mind? If not, I'm open to other suggestions.
> 
>     If you think it helps, this would be a good addition.
> 
>>
>>         >From an Operational standpoint, the document seems largely
>>         appropriate in terms
>>         of dataplane considerations. Some key considerations are
>>         explicitly out of
>>         scope:
>>            The method used by the downstream receiving node to
>>         advertise SFF
>>            Labels to the upstream sending node is out of scope of this
>>         document.
>>
>>         This really seems to mean that, with the simple definition in this
>>         Informational document, interoperable implementations cannot
>>         yet exist. If
>>         there is no mechanism to advertise the SFF Label or to manage
>>         the semantics of
>>         this particular label, how will it know? Static configuration,
>>         which is not
>>         covered anyway, is not in my humble opinion a manageable
>>         scalable approach.
>>
>>
>>     Actually, while it is outside the scope of this document, it is
>>     within the scope of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, and
>>     text is being added to the next revision of that draft to show how
>>     it can be used to signal the encapsulation defined here. This was
>>     worked out after this draft was forwarded to the IESG, but we can
>>     now add a reference to that draft seeing as we'll be doing a
>>     post-last-call update.
> 
>     I think that will help, as an Informative “one embodiment” type of link.
> 
>>
>>         Title: MPLS Encapsulation For The SFC NSH
>>
>>         RFC 8300 makes an explicit distinction between the terms
>>         'encapsulation' and
>>         'transport encapsulation' (see e.g., Figure 1, Section 1.5 5.,
>>         and Section 4 of
>>         RFC 8300).
>>
>>         It seems to me that this is the "MPLS Transport Encapsulation
>>         for the SFC NSH"
>>
>>
>>     Thanks, we'll fix that.
>>
>>
>>         2.  MPLS Encapsulation Using an SFF Label
>>
>>         Similarly, "2. MPLS Transport Encapsulation Using an SFF Label"
>>
>>            The encapsulation is a standard MPLS label stack [RFC3032]
>>         with an
>>            SFF Label at the bottom of the stack, followed by a NSH as
>>         defined by
>>            [RFC8300] and the NSH payload.
>>
>>         Insteadf of "NSH payload" I think "orignal packet" is meant.
>>
>>
>>     RFC 8300 uses both "payload" and "original packet/frame", but the
>>     latter more than the former. So we can change "payload" to
>>     "original packet/frame".
>>
>>
>>         Also, this encapsulation is Underdefined: What is the value of
>>         TTL? TC?
>>
>>
>>     I've been looking back at other related RFCs (such as PW and IP
>>     VPN label definitions) and they're also mostly silent on these
>>     values. I did find the following in RFC 6073:
>>
>>         The setting of the TTL of the PW MPLS
>>         label is a matter of local policy on the originating PE, but SHOULD
>>         be set to 255.
>>
>>     Regarding the TC, we can follow the example of RFC 6391:
>>
>>         This document does not define a use for the Traffic Class (TC) field
>>         [RFC5462  <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5462>] (formerly known as the Experimental Use (EXP) bits
>>         [RFC3032  <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3032>]) in the flow label.  Future documents may define a use for
>>         these bits; therefore, implementations conforming to this
>>         specification MUST set the TC field to zero at the ingress and MUST
>>         ignore them at the egress.
>>
>>     Do you have any alternative suggestions?
> 
>     These two approaches sounds good to me. And Ack to the other
>     previous responses.
> 
>>
>>            Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label is allocated by the
>>            downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label
>>         space.
>>
>>         A PW Label is more restrictive. RFC 8077 says it MUST be
>>         allocated as
>>         per-platform:
>>
>>            egress LSR only.  Note that the PW label must always be at
>>         the bottom
>>            of the packet's label stack, and labels MUST be allocated
>>         from the
>>            per-platform label space.
>>
>>         Is this the case for the SFF Label as well? If so, what is the
>>         implication of
>>         the MUST? If not, why is it different than other equivalent
>>         similar labels?
>>
>>
>>     We can change the text to:
>>
>>      Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label MUST be allocated by
>>     the downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label
>>     space, since the meaning of the label is identical independent of
>>     which incoming interface it is received [RFC3031].
>>
> 
>     That’s a great improvement.
> 
>>
>>            2.  Push the SFF Label to identify the desired SFF in the
>>         receiving
>>                MPLS node.
>>
>>         TTL value? 1? 2? 255 for GTSM? GTSM RFC 5082 could be used here.
>>
>>
>>     As I noted above, 255, although I used RFC 6073 as my source
>>     rather than 5082. We'll add that here as well.
>>
> 
>     Sounds good.
>     These protocols use 5082 in one form or another:
>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5082/referencedby/
> 
>>
>>         4.  Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM)
>>         Considerations
>>
>>            OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms
>>         [RFC8300].
>>            However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer. 
>>         If so,
>>            then standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms such as the Generic
>>            Associated Channel [RFC5586] label may be used.
>>
>>         RFC 5586 is _not_ an OAM mechanism. It is an associated
>>         channel creation
>>         mechanism, over which OAM could be carried.
>>
>>         Thus, what traditional MPLS OAM can be carried here? Things
>>         like RFC 4379 / RFC
>>         8029 would need the definition of an SFF Label FEC (which does
>>         not exist).
>>         Which other one? IP/ICMP seems of very limited value.
>>
>>
>>     That's a good point about RFC 5586. The intention is that the MPLS
>>     OAM would be at the transport label layer above the SFF label, so
>>     most any MPLS-layer OAM would be applicable. So how about
>>     rewording to make that more clear:
>>
>>     OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms
>>     [RFC8300]. However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport
>>     layer.  If so, then standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms may be used
>>     at the transport label layer (the labels above the SFF label).
> 
>     Looks good to me, thank you.
> 
>>
>>
>>         6.  Security Considerations
>>
>>         Have you considered the use of GTSM?
>>
>>
>>     No, we hadn't. Can you point me to any examples of GTSM being used
>>     in an MPLS or PW context?
> 
>     Yes, see above.
> 
>>
>>         8.  References
>>
>>            [RFC7665]  Halpern, J., Ed. and C. Pignataro, Ed., "Service
>>         Function
>>                       Chaining (SFC) Architecture", RFC 7665,
>>                       DOI 10.17487/RFC7665, October 2015,
>>                       <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665
>>         <https://www..rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665>>.
>>
>>         SHould RFC 7665 be Normative? It defines the "SFF" which is
>>         quite central to
>>         understanding this document.
>>
>>
>>     Good point. It was there because 7665 is an Informational RFC, but
>>     RFC 8067 does allow normative references to informational RFCs, so
>>     I'll move it.
> 
>     Thank you.
> 
>>
>>         Other Nits and Editorials:
>>
>>            SFF Labels are similar to other service labels at the
>>         bottom of an
>>            MPLS label stack that denote the contents of the MPLS
>>         payload being
>>            other than IP, such as a layer 2 pseudowire, an IP packet
>>         that is
>>            routed in a VPN context with a private address, or an Ethernet
>>            virtual private wire service.
>>
>>         This says "being other than IP, such as IP", which seems to be
>>         self-contradictory :-)
>>
>>     :-)
>>
>>     How about we change "other than IP," to "other than a normally
>>     routed IP packet”,
> 
>     That would disambiguate it.
> 
>     Thanks again.
> 
>     To me, the control plane / advertisement was the most important
>     operationally-relevant comment.
> 
>     Thanks,
> 
>     Carlos.
> 
>>
>>     Thanks again,
>>     Andy
> 


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
CC: "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
CC: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 04:54:13 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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--_000_7CA6EE6E3D6C4ACFB9B4540C57A658E8ciscocom_--


From nobody Mon Feb 25 04:33:18 2019
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation.all@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] [mpls] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-sfc-encapsulation-02
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First, you have a good point that the expected behavior of the MPLS TTL 
shoudl be specified.  Given that we managed to confuse you, it needs to 
be fixed.

<speaking as co-author, not as WG chair>

As I understand it, the MPLS TTL used for transport between SFF and the 
NSH TTL used for the SFC SFP are unrelated.  The NSH TTL has a value 
that exceeds the number of expected SFF (with a default of 63.)  It is 
derement at each SFF.

The MPLS TTL needs to be set to a value sufficient to get the NSH packet 
from one SFF to the next.  That might be one MPLS hop.  It might be 
several.  Presumably therefore the default is whatever the default is 
for the MPLS network in which it is being used.

the important point is that there is no relationship between decrements 
to the MPLS TTL and decrements to the NSH TTL.  As in tunnel mode for IP 
in IP tunnels, the NSH TTL is only decrement by one for each SFF-SFF hop.

Yours,
Joel

On 2/24/19 11:54 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
> Hi, Joel,
> 
> Maybe I am misunderstanding something. Is the SFF Label, in the context 
> of MPLS transport encapsulation for the SFC NSH, ever expected to be 
> used for Forwarding? Is its TTL ever expected to be decremented and the 
> packet sent? If so, I did not understand that from the existing text, 
> since it is equivalent to a PW Label. If not, we can take advantage of TTL.
> 
> Either way is good, I’m just asking to make this explicit.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> — Carlos Pignataro
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2019, at 1:43 AM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com 
>> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>>
>> My comment on this may not have made it to everyone.  If you receive a 
>> duplicate, I apologize  (I received DMARC errors from something about 
>> translations from the draft.all address to gmail addresses.)
>>
>> Speaking as a co-author...
>>
>> It is not at all clear to me that GTSM applies or how it would apply. 
>> There is no requirement that successive SFF be one MPLS hop apart.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>
>> On 2/22/19 9:27 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>>> Carlos,
>>> Looks good on all but one point - I think I see why you're 
>>> referencing GTSM, since packets at the SFC layer would generally be 
>>> one hop away from each other at that layer. Is that correct? However, 
>>> I really don't have sufficient experience with GTSM to craft 
>>> specific text. If you think it's important enough to include, could 
>>> you propose some text for me to include?
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Andy
>>> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 8:41 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) 
>>> <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com> 
>>> <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>>    Hi, Andy,
>>>>    On Feb 21, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>
>>>>    <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    Carlos,
>>>>
>>>>    Many thanks for your review! I'm also including the SFC WG on my
>>>>    reply.
>>>    Thanks for the quick response, and for considering the comments!
>>>    I enjoyed reading this document — please see below.
>>>>
>>>>    Comments inline.
>>>>
>>>>    On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:58 PM Carlos Pignataro
>>>>    <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com> 
>>>> <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
>>>>        Review result: Has Issues
>>>>
>>>>        Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro
>>>>        Review Result: Has Issues
>>>>
>>>>        I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational
>>>>        directorate's
>>>>        ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by
>>>>        the IESG.  These
>>>>        comments were written with the intent of improving the
>>>>        operational aspects of
>>>>        the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call
>>>>        may be included
>>>>        in AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and WG
>>>>        chairs should
>>>>        treat these comments just like any other last call comments.
>>>>
>>>>        This document is highly readable, includes very clear textual
>>>>        descriptions, and
>>>>        is very well organized. Easy to read in its simplicity.
>>>>        However, it would
>>>>        benefit from a more explicit connection to the transport encap
>>>>        mechanics from
>>>>        RFC 8300 (e.g., S4, S6.1). Specifically, I'd recommend adding
>>>>        a Figure or an
>>>>        SFF NSH Mapping Table example, to depict and/or exemplify the
>>>>        SFF function.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    I'm trying to envision what would make a good figure here. We
>>>>    could add an additional line to Table 1 of RFC 8300 and reference
>>>>    that table:
>>>>
>>>>           +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
>>>>           | SPI  | SI   | Next Hop(s)         | Transport 
>>>> Encapsulation |
>>>>           +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
>>>>           | 25   | 220  | Label 5467          | MPLS 
>>>>                    |
>>>>           +------+------+---------------------+-------------------------+
>>>>
>>>>    Is that what you had in mind? If not, I'm open to other suggestions.
>>>    If you think it helps, this would be a good addition.
>>>>
>>>>        >From an Operational standpoint, the document seems largely
>>>>        appropriate in terms
>>>>        of dataplane considerations. Some key considerations are
>>>>        explicitly out of
>>>>        scope:
>>>>           The method used by the downstream receiving node to
>>>>        advertise SFF
>>>>           Labels to the upstream sending node is out of scope of this
>>>>        document.
>>>>
>>>>        This really seems to mean that, with the simple definition in 
>>>> this
>>>>        Informational document, interoperable implementations cannot
>>>>        yet exist. If
>>>>        there is no mechanism to advertise the SFF Label or to manage
>>>>        the semantics of
>>>>        this particular label, how will it know? Static configuration,
>>>>        which is not
>>>>        covered anyway, is not in my humble opinion a manageable
>>>>        scalable approach.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Actually, while it is outside the scope of this document, it is
>>>>    within the scope of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, and
>>>>    text is being added to the next revision of that draft to show how
>>>>    it can be used to signal the encapsulation defined here. This was
>>>>    worked out after this draft was forwarded to the IESG, but we can
>>>>    now add a reference to that draft seeing as we'll be doing a
>>>>    post-last-call update.
>>>    I think that will help, as an Informative “one embodiment” type of 
>>> link.
>>>>
>>>>        Title: MPLS Encapsulation For The SFC NSH
>>>>
>>>>        RFC 8300 makes an explicit distinction between the terms
>>>>        'encapsulation' and
>>>>        'transport encapsulation' (see e.g., Figure 1, Section 1.5 5.,
>>>>        and Section 4 of
>>>>        RFC 8300).
>>>>
>>>>        It seems to me that this is the "MPLS Transport Encapsulation
>>>>        for the SFC NSH"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Thanks, we'll fix that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        2.  MPLS Encapsulation Using an SFF Label
>>>>
>>>>        Similarly, "2. MPLS Transport Encapsulation Using an SFF Label"
>>>>
>>>>           The encapsulation is a standard MPLS label stack [RFC3032]
>>>>        with an
>>>>           SFF Label at the bottom of the stack, followed by a NSH as
>>>>        defined by
>>>>           [RFC8300] and the NSH payload.
>>>>
>>>>        Insteadf of "NSH payload" I think "orignal packet" is meant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    RFC 8300 uses both "payload" and "original packet/frame", but the
>>>>    latter more than the former. So we can change "payload" to
>>>>    "original packet/frame".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        Also, this encapsulation is Underdefined: What is the value of
>>>>        TTL? TC?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    I've been looking back at other related RFCs (such as PW and IP
>>>>    VPN label definitions) and they're also mostly silent on these
>>>>    values. I did find the following in RFC 6073:
>>>>
>>>>        The setting of the TTL of the PW MPLS
>>>>        label is a matter of local policy on the originating PE, but 
>>>> SHOULD
>>>>        be set to 255.
>>>>
>>>>    Regarding the TC, we can follow the example of RFC 6391:
>>>>
>>>>        This document does not define a use for the Traffic Class 
>>>> (TC) field
>>>>        [RFC5462  <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5462>] (formerly 
>>>> known as the Experimental Use (EXP) bits
>>>>        [RFC3032  <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3032>]) in the flow 
>>>> label.  Future documents may define a use for
>>>>        these bits; therefore, implementations conforming to this
>>>>        specification MUST set the TC field to zero at the ingress 
>>>> and MUST
>>>>        ignore them at the egress.
>>>>
>>>>    Do you have any alternative suggestions?
>>>    These two approaches sounds good to me. And Ack to the other
>>>    previous responses.
>>>>
>>>>           Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label is allocated by the
>>>>           downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label
>>>>        space.
>>>>
>>>>        A PW Label is more restrictive. RFC 8077 says it MUST be
>>>>        allocated as
>>>>        per-platform:
>>>>
>>>>           egress LSR only.  Note that the PW label must always be at
>>>>        the bottom
>>>>           of the packet's label stack, and labels MUST be allocated
>>>>        from the
>>>>           per-platform label space.
>>>>
>>>>        Is this the case for the SFF Label as well? If so, what is the
>>>>        implication of
>>>>        the MUST? If not, why is it different than other equivalent
>>>>        similar labels?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    We can change the text to:
>>>>
>>>>     Much like a pseudowire label, an SFF Label MUST be allocated by
>>>>    the downstream receiver of the NSH from its per-platform label
>>>>    space, since the meaning of the label is identical independent of
>>>>    which incoming interface it is received [RFC3031].
>>>>
>>>    That’s a great improvement.
>>>>
>>>>           2.  Push the SFF Label to identify the desired SFF in the
>>>>        receiving
>>>>               MPLS node.
>>>>
>>>>        TTL value? 1? 2? 255 for GTSM? GTSM RFC 5082 could be used here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    As I noted above, 255, although I used RFC 6073 as my source
>>>>    rather than 5082. We'll add that here as well.
>>>>
>>>    Sounds good.
>>>    These protocols use 5082 in one form or another:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5082/referencedby/
>>>>
>>>>        4.  Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM)
>>>>        Considerations
>>>>
>>>>           OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms
>>>>        [RFC8300].
>>>>           However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport layer. 
>>>>         If so,
>>>>           then standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms such as the Generic
>>>>           Associated Channel [RFC5586] label may be used.
>>>>
>>>>        RFC 5586 is _not_ an OAM mechanism. It is an associated
>>>>        channel creation
>>>>        mechanism, over which OAM could be carried.
>>>>
>>>>        Thus, what traditional MPLS OAM can be carried here? Things
>>>>        like RFC 4379 / RFC
>>>>        8029 would need the definition of an SFF Label FEC (which does
>>>>        not exist).
>>>>        Which other one? IP/ICMP seems of very limited value.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    That's a good point about RFC 5586. The intention is that the MPLS
>>>>    OAM would be at the transport label layer above the SFF label, so
>>>>    most any MPLS-layer OAM would be applicable. So how about
>>>>    rewording to make that more clear:
>>>>
>>>>    OAM at the SFC Layer is handled by SFC-defined mechanisms
>>>>    [RFC8300]. However, OAM may be required at the MPLS transport
>>>>    layer.  If so, then standard MPLS-layer OAM mechanisms may be used
>>>>    at the transport label layer (the labels above the SFF label).
>>>    Looks good to me, thank you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        6.  Security Considerations
>>>>
>>>>        Have you considered the use of GTSM?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    No, we hadn't. Can you point me to any examples of GTSM being used
>>>>    in an MPLS or PW context?
>>>    Yes, see above.
>>>>
>>>>        8.  References
>>>>
>>>>           [RFC7665]  Halpern, J., Ed. and C. Pignataro, Ed., "Service
>>>>        Function
>>>>                      Chaining (SFC) Architecture", RFC 7665,
>>>>                      DOI 10.17487/RFC7665, October 2015,
>>>>                      <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665
>>>>        <https://www..rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7665>>.
>>>>
>>>>        SHould RFC 7665 be Normative? It defines the "SFF" which is
>>>>        quite central to
>>>>        understanding this document.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Good point. It was there because 7665 is an Informational RFC, but
>>>>    RFC 8067 does allow normative references to informational RFCs, so
>>>>    I'll move it.
>>>    Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>        Other Nits and Editorials:
>>>>
>>>>           SFF Labels are similar to other service labels at the
>>>>        bottom of an
>>>>           MPLS label stack that denote the contents of the MPLS
>>>>        payload being
>>>>           other than IP, such as a layer 2 pseudowire, an IP packet
>>>>        that is
>>>>           routed in a VPN context with a private address, or an Ethernet
>>>>           virtual private wire service.
>>>>
>>>>        This says "being other than IP, such as IP", which seems to be
>>>>        self-contradictory :-)
>>>>
>>>>    :-)
>>>>
>>>>    How about we change "other than IP," to "other than a normally
>>>>    routed IP packet”,
>>>    That would disambiguate it.
>>>    Thanks again.
>>>    To me, the control plane / advertisement was the most important
>>>    operationally-relevant comment.
>>>    Thanks,
>>>    Carlos.
>>>>
>>>>    Thanks again,
>>>>    Andy
> 


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Subject: [sfc] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework
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Dear Sam Aldrin, Carlos Pignataro, Nagendra Kumar, Nobo Akiya, Ramki Krishnan, Anoop Ghanwani:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Service
Function Chaining (SFC) Operation, Administration and Maintenance (OAM)
Framework" (draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework) was submitted to the IETF
Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual
Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3440/). The
title of the IPR disclosure is "Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement
about IPR related to draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat

