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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 20:58:12 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmV6auDCigUgtm6B1yTvfZ6UjWDAj0gz1cSD-CPgciUPrg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/xPg5dx3LXHT5R9U2vvC9BvjEhT4>
Subject: Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03.txt
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Hi Frank,
my apologies for the terribly late response. Please find my notes in-line,
now under GIM2>> tag.

Stay well. Stay safe.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:25 AM Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <
fbrockne@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Please see inline (=E2=80=A6FB2) and sorry for the delay.
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Dienstag, 7. April 2020 19:40
> *To:* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* sfc@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03.txt
>
>
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> thank you for your consideration of my comments and for sharing your
> views. Please find my notes in-lined below under the GIM>> tag.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 1:46 AM Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <
> fbrockne@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Please see inline ("...FB"):
>
>
> From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> Sent: Donnerstag, 2. April 2020 00:45
> To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>
> Cc: sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03.txt
>
> Hi Frank, et al.,
> thank you for the updates. I have a couple of questions and appreciate if
> you and the WG consider them:
> =E2=80=A2 in the Introduction, the term "in-situ" is explained as follows=
:
>    The term "in-situ" refers to the fact
>    that the OAM data is added to the data packets rather than is being
>    sent within packets specifically dedicated to OAM.
> That is reasonable since the draft only references
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data/. As those,
> following work on iOAM in IPPM WG, know several new iOAM behaviors, e.g.,
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/,
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags/ and Active,
> have been defined in new IPPM WG drafts. Are these behaviors applicable t=
o
> iOAM in SFC NSH?
>
> ...FB: Thanks to your review comments on draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data, the
> latest draft draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-09 already touches on the fact tha=
t
> the term "In-situ OAM" has evolved and is no longer referring to the
> exclusive use of piggybacking OAM information onto live customer traffic =
as
> the packet traverses the network (see the introduction section of
> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-09). It makes sense to harmonize the intro in
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh with draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-09.
> And to your question: I could see e.g. direct export useful to IOAM
> deployments which use NSH encapsulation.
>
> GIM>> Thank you.  I appreciate that the updated draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data
> now explicitly refers to the DEX mode. Probably a similar reference is
> suitable for the NSH iOAM draft. Do you think it should be in the normati=
ve
> references list? Also, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags defines new behaviors,
> e.g., Loopback and Active. Are these applicable to iOAM in SFC NSH?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *=E2=80=A6FB2: This is a good question. We might even ask the question mo=
re
> broadly =E2=80=93 i.e. in the context of SFC OAM. SFC OAM could benefit f=
rom the
> active flag =E2=80=93 in NSH, we have the O-bit to qualify traffic as OAM=
, but what
> about non-NSH deployments? Similarly, loopback could play a role in
> defining a SFC traceroute solution (as defined in sfc-oam-framework,
> section 6.4.4) =E2=80=93 though it would obviously be only one potential =
ingredient
> of a larger solution that could be defined as one of the SFC OAM solution=
s
> drafts. Are you thinking of coming up with such a solution?*
>
GIM>> I think I have a somewhat different view on O-bit in NSH in
particular and on the identification of active OAM in overlay networks in
general. iOAM, in my view, is a useful and powerful on-path OAM mechanism
but I'd not stretch it into the area of active OAM protocols. Besides, I'm
the co-author of the WG draft that proposes SFC NSH-based echo
request/reply and several individual drafts that are enhancing SFC NSH OAM
using that mechanism.

>
>
> =E2=80=A2 the second question is related to the discussion of the iOAM
> encapsulation in NSH. I couldn't find explicitly stated requirements that
> are based on quantitative metrics. The text refers to "large networks",
> "can grow quite large" and alike. Do we have an example of a large SFC
> network? And if the size of MD Type 2 meta-data might be limiting in some
> scenarios, iOAM now has defined the Direct Export mode that supports the
> collection of any practical information from each iOAM node. I think that
> the use of the Direct Export or other methods that collect iOAM informati=
on
> in a dedicated packet can be recommended. As a result, the choice of the
> iOAM encapsulation in NSH can be re-considered.
>
> ...FB: We can include some sample quantitative calculations to point out
> the limitations - which might be better than calling out an explicit
> example network deployment, which could be inappropriate for a spec. To
> illustrate the problem why approach #1 in section 4.1 is challenging, we
> can include some quantitative figures, like the following case:
>
> GIM>> Thank you. Looking forward to the update. Will be much obliged if
> you can share the text before it is published.
>
> IOAM tracing with node-id in wide format (8), egress/ingress interface in
> wide format (8), timestamp second (4) and subsecond (4), buffer occupancy
> (4), transit delay (4). This would require a total of 4 + n*32 octets. If
> you're space-limited to 256 bytes, you can record at most 7 hops.
> In case you'd add namespace-specific-data in wide format (8) to the above
> example, then you'd be down to 6 hops if you need to fit things into 256
> bytes.
>
> GIM>> Indeed, 256 bytes is a limit that an operator should consider. And
> the operator can choose the proper mode to collect iOAM data, in-the-pack=
et
> or DEX, based on that consideration.
>
> I don't think there is a need to reconsider the choice of the IOAM
> encapsulation for NSH. The WG discussed the topic in several meetings and
> the current text is what we arrived at. I don't think that anything has
> changed that would require us to re-open the discussion.
>
> GIM>> I think that the work on the DEX mode is an important development
> that requires a new discussion and reconsideration of how
> iOAM encapsulated in SFC NSH by the working group.
>
> *=E2=80=A6FB2: Per what I mentioned above: After a series of discussions =
we
> arrived at a solution and I don=E2=80=99t see need to revisit the discuss=
ion just
> because we have another IOAM-Option-Type to be considered. IMHO it is not
> helpful but rather confusing to have different encapsulations for differe=
nt
> types of IOAM option types (i.e. use different encaps for
> IOAM-Trace-Option-Type and IOAM-Direct-Export-Option-Type).*
>
GIM2>> Of course, this is my personal opinion and WG and WG chairs will
decide. I consider using NSH's variable-length context header as more
secure and more service-friendly. Let's consider a scenario when an
NSH-encapsulated packet arrives at the final SFF that does not support iOAM
in NSH. The packet will be dropped if it uses the currently selected
option. But if iOAM is placed in the variable-length context header, the
SFF will merely remove NSH and process the payload accordingly. True, to
collect on-path information over longer SFPs may require using DEX. And to
make things simpler the recommendation might be to use the variable-length
header only for proof-of-transit and DEX for all other cases.

>
>
> *Cheers, Frank*
>
>
>
>
> Cheers, Frank
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 6:49 AM Frank Brockners (fbrockne)
> <fbrockne=3Dmailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> Quick update: I've just posted a new revision of draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh.
>
> This update includes editorial fixes only - mainly an alignment to the
> nomenclature used in draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data.
>
> Are there any further comments on this draft? Are we ready to move to WG
> LC?
>
> Thanks, Frank
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sfc <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of mailto:
> internet-drafts@ietf.org
> > Sent: Donnerstag, 19. M=C3=A4rz 2020 14:39
> > To: mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org
> > Cc: mailto:sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03.txt
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the
> IETF.
> >
> >         Title           : Network Service Header (NSH) Encapsulation fo=
r
> In-situ OAM
> > (IOAM) Data
> >         Authors         : Frank Brockners
> >                           Shwetha Bhandari
> >       Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03.txt
> >       Pages           : 9
> >       Date            : 2020-03-19
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records
> >    operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet
> >    traverses a path between two points in the network.  This document
> >    outlines how IOAM data fields are encapsulated in the Network Servic=
e
> >    Header (NSH).
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> >
> > There are also htmlized versions available at:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> http://tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
> > mailto:sfc@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> mailto:sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Frank,<div>my apologies=C2=A0for the=
=C2=A0terribly=C2=A0late response. Please find my notes in-line, now under =
GIM2&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div><br></div><div>Stay well. Stay safe.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:25 AM=
 Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com">fbroc=
kne@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-6183811049249285495WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please see inline (=E2=80=A6FB2) and sorry for the d=
elay.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregi=
mirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Dienstag, 7. April 2020 19:40<br>
<b>To:</b> Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne@cisco.=
com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03.txt<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Frank,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your consideration of my comments and =
for sharing your views. Please find my notes in-lined below under the GIM&g=
t;&gt; tag.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 1:46 AM Frank Brockners (fbro=
ckne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@=
cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg,<br>
<br>
Please see inline (&quot;...FB&quot;):<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
Sent: Donnerstag, 2. April 2020 00:45<br>
To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03.txt<br>
<br>
Hi Frank, et al.,<br>
thank you for the updates. I have a couple of questions and appreciate if y=
ou and the WG consider them:<br>
=E2=80=A2 in the Introduction, the term &quot;in-situ&quot; is explained as=
 follows:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The term &quot;in-situ&quot; refers to the fact<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that the OAM data is added to the data packets rather than is =
being<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0sent within packets specifically dedicated to OAM.<br>
That is reasonable since the draft only references <a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data/" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data/</a>. As those, =
following work on iOAM in IPPM WG, know several new iOAM behaviors, e.g.,=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dire=
ct-export/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i=
ppm-ioam-direct-export/</a>,
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags/" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags/</a>=C2=A0and A=
ctive, have been defined in new IPPM WG drafts. Are these behaviors applica=
ble to iOAM in SFC NSH?<br>
<br>
...FB: Thanks to your review comments on draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data, the lat=
est draft draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-09 already touches on the fact that the=
 term &quot;In-situ OAM&quot; has evolved and is no longer referring to the=
 exclusive use of piggybacking OAM information
 onto live customer traffic as the packet traverses the network (see the in=
troduction section of draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-09). It makes sense to harm=
onize the intro in draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh with draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-0=
9.<br>
And to your question: I could see e.g. direct export useful to IOAM deploym=
ents which use NSH encapsulation.=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you.=C2=A0 I appreciate that the u=
pdated draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data now explicitly refers to the DEX mode. Pro=
bably a similar reference is suitable for the NSH iOAM draft. Do you think =
it should be in the normative references list?
 Also, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags defines new behaviors, e.g., Loopback and=
 Active. Are these applicable to iOAM in SFC NSH?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>=E2=80=A6FB2: This is a good question. We migh=
t even ask the question more broadly =E2=80=93 i.e. in the context of SFC O=
AM.
<br>
SFC OAM could benefit from the active flag =E2=80=93 in NSH, we have the O-=
bit to qualify traffic as OAM, but what about non-NSH deployments?<br>
Similarly, loopback could play a role in defining a SFC traceroute solution=
 (as defined in sfc-oam-framework, section 6.4.4) =E2=80=93 though it would=
 obviously be only one potential ingredient of a larger solution that could=
 be defined as one of the SFC OAM solutions
 drafts. <br>
Are you thinking of coming up with such a solution?</i></b></p></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I think I have a some=
what different view on O-bit in NSH in particular and on the identification=
=C2=A0of active OAM in overlay networks in general. iOAM, in my view, is a =
useful and powerful on-path OAM mechanism but I&#39;d not stretch it into t=
he area of active OAM protocols. Besides, I&#39;m the co-author of the WG d=
raft that proposes SFC NSH-based echo request/reply and several individual =
drafts that are enhancing SFC NSH OAM using that mechanism.</div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"g=
mail-m_-6183811049249285495WordSection1"><div style=3D"border-top:none;bord=
er-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0=
cm 0cm 4pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
=E2=80=A2 the second question is related to the discussion of the iOAM enca=
psulation in NSH. I couldn&#39;t find explicitly stated requirements that a=
re based on quantitative=C2=A0metrics. The text refers to &quot;large netwo=
rks&quot;, &quot;can grow quite large&quot; and alike. Do we have an
 example of a large SFC network? And if the size of MD Type 2 meta-data mig=
ht be limiting in some scenarios, iOAM now has defined the Direct Export mo=
de that supports the collection of any practical information from each iOAM=
 node. I think that the use of the
 Direct Export or other methods that collect iOAM information in a dedicate=
d packet can be recommended. As a result, the choice of the iOAM encapsulat=
ion in NSH can be re-considered.<br>
<br>
...FB: We can include some sample quantitative calculations to point out th=
e limitations - which might be better than calling out an explicit example =
network deployment, which could be inappropriate for a spec. To illustrate =
the problem why approach #1 in section
 4.1 is challenging, we can include some quantitative figures, like the fol=
lowing case:
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you. Looking forward to the update=
. Will be much obliged if you can share the text before it is published.=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IOAM tracing with node-id in wide format (8), egress=
/ingress interface in wide format (8), timestamp second (4) and subsecond (=
4), buffer occupancy (4), transit delay (4). This would require a total of =
4 + n*32 octets. If you&#39;re space-limited
 to 256 bytes, you can record at most 7 hops.<br>
In case you&#39;d add namespace-specific-data in wide format (8) to the abo=
ve example, then you&#39;d be down to 6 hops if you need to fit things into=
 256 bytes.
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Indeed, 256 bytes is a limit that an ope=
rator should consider. And the operator can choose the proper=C2=A0mode to =
collect iOAM data, in-the-packet or DEX, based on that consideration.<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don&#39;t think there is a need to reconsider the =
choice of the IOAM encapsulation for NSH. The WG discussed the topic in sev=
eral meetings and the current text is what we arrived at. I don&#39;t think=
 that anything has changed that would require
 us to re-open the discussion.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; I think that the work on the DEX mode is=
 an important development that requires a new discussion and reconsideratio=
n of how iOAM=C2=A0encapsulated=C2=A0in SFC NSH by the working group.=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>=E2=80=A6FB2: Per what I mentioned above: Afte=
r a series of discussions we arrived at a solution and I don=E2=80=99t see =
need to revisit the discussion just because we have another IOAM-Option-Typ=
e to be considered. IMHO it is not helpful but rather
 confusing to have different encapsulations for different types of IOAM opt=
ion types (i.e. use different encaps for IOAM-Trace-Option-Type and IOAM-Di=
rect-Export-Option-Type).</i></b></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Of course, this is my personal opinion and WG =
and WG chairs will decide. I consider using NSH&#39;s=C2=A0variable-length =
context header as more secure and more service-friendly. Let&#39;s consider=
 a scenario when an NSH-encapsulated=C2=A0packet arrives at the final SFF t=
hat does not support iOAM in NSH. The packet will be dropped if it uses the=
 currently selected option. But if iOAM is placed in the variable-length co=
ntext=C2=A0header, the SFF will merely remove NSH and process the payload a=
ccordingly. True, to collect on-path information over longer SFPs may requi=
re using DEX. And to make things simpler the recommendation might be to use=
 the variable-length header only for proof-of-transit and DEX for all other=
 cases.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D=
"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-6183811049249285495WordSection1"><div style=
=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1.5pt =
solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
b><i>
<u></u><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>Cheers, Frank<u></u><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Cheers, Frank<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 6:49 AM Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;fbrockne=3Dm=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cis=
co.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
Quick update: I&#39;ve just posted a new revision of draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-ns=
h.<br>
<br>
This update includes editorial fixes only - mainly an alignment to the nome=
nclature used in draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data.<br>
<br>
Are there any further comments on this draft? Are we ready to move to WG LC=
?<br>
<br>
Thanks, Frank<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: sfc &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
&gt; Sent: Donnerstag, 19. M=C3=A4rz 2020 14:39<br>
&gt; To: mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
i-d-announce@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.=
org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03.txt<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dir=
ectories.<br>
&gt; This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the I=
ETF.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0: Network Service Header (NSH) Encapsulation for In-situ OAM<br>
&gt; (IOAM) Data<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0: Frank Brockners<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Shwetha Bhandari<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-=
ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03.txt<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0: 9<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 : 2020-03-19<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Abstract:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM=
) records<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 operational and telemetry information in the packet while=
 the packet<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 traverses a path between two points in the network.=C2=A0=
 This document<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 outlines how IOAM data fields are encapsulated in the Net=
work Service<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Header (NSH).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/" =
target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03" tar=
get=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-n=
sh-03" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh=
-03" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-03</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm=
ission<br>
&gt; until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http:/=
/tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
http://tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" target=3D"_blank">ftp:=
//ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; sfc mailing list<br>
&gt; mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank=
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

--00000000000043fdda05a711ece3--


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Thread-Topic: [sfc] SFC Security
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Hello WG,

I too believe draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity is a good start to define securi=
ty mechanisms for the NSH and therefore suggest this draft should be moved =
forward.

Cheers,

Christian.

-----Message d'origine-----
De=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Joel M. Halpern
Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 27 mai 2020 17:36
=C0=A0: sfc@ietf.org
Objet=A0: [sfc] SFC Security

We as a working group hava milestone which the IESG felt was important,=20
and which we agreed to work on, to provide security mechanisms for NSH.

We have one individual draft that suggests such mechansims:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/

Do folks think this is a good start?  A bad start?

For those folks who would like to be working on other things, the chairs=20
note that we are very reluctant to engage in new work items until we can=20
prove we can complete out commitments.

Yours,
Joel

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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Subject: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Hi SFC WG,

Just a note to let you know that we've made a new version of this draft.

We've been responding to various IESG Discusses and Comments, and to the =
Routing Directorate review for this draft. You can see the exchanges on =
the BESS list.

This revision makes all of the associated changes. There is a fairly =
high level of change, but we believe that the changes are not very =
substantive.

Please take some time to look at the diffs and shout if anything is =
alarming or unclear.

Many thanks,
Adrian
=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I-D-Announce <i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of
> internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: 02 June 2020 09:05
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: bess@ietf.org
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-14.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.
>=20
>          Title           : BGP Control Plane for the Network Service =
Header
> in Service Function Chaining
>          Authors         : Adrian Farrel
>                            John Drake
>                            Eric Rosen
>                            Jim Uttaro
>                            Luay Jalil
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-14.txt
> 	Pages           : 68
> 	Date            : 2020-06-02
>=20
> Abstract:
>     This document describes the use of BGP as a control plane for
>     networks that support Service Function Chaining (SFC).  The =
document
>     introduces a new BGP address family called the SFC Address Family
>     Identifier / Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SFC AFI/SAFI) =
with
>     two route types.  One route type is originated by a node to =
advertise
>     that it hosts a particular instance of a specified service =
function.
>     This route type also provides "instructions" on how to send a =
packet
>     to the hosting node in a way that indicates that the service =
function
>     has to be applied to the packet.  The other route type is used by =
a
>     Controller to advertise the paths of "chains" of service =
functions,
>     and to give a unique designator to each such path so that they can =
be
>     used in conjunction with the Network Service Header defined in RFC
>     8300.
>=20
>     This document adopts the SFC architecture described in RFC 7665.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-14
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-pla=
ne-
> 14
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane=
-14
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 16:28:21 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmVObnN8=AbpWveoK0V9fZGDF=UFr+L=9iN5G-NxFq0vgg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
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Dear Carlos,
please find my answers and notes in-line under the GIM>> tag.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Dear Greg,
>
> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>
>
> Thank you for asking and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s some thought=
s:
>
> Hello, WG, Chairs,
>
> I believe fundamental concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=80=94=
 examples:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/
> And since some of those questions were asked during adoption, I=E2=80=99d
> recommend at least un-adopting this document.
>
> Email threading in one-year-old and two-year-old emails is super hard to
> parse and follow, so some key concerns are:
> 1. This document describes an OAM solution, but ignores the WG=E2=80=99s =
SFC OAM
> framework which sits with the IESG.
>
GIM>> Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational Reference
and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism addresses.

2. Existing protocols can already provide solutions without the need of
> inventing a new protocol on paper. See #1 above.
>
GIM>> Could you kindly reference a document that describes how existing
protocols can be used to troubleshoot SFC NSH? If I look at the SFC OAM
framework draft I can only find the sub-section about the potential use of
ICMP that closes with the following:
   It could be observed that ICMP at its current stage may not be able
   to perform all required SFC OAM functions, but as explained above, it
   can be used for some of the connectivity functions.
If ICMP cannot be used, then what other, unnamed in the SFC OAM Framework
document, existing protocol can be used as SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply
mechanism?


> 3. There are already documented SFC traceroute implementations but this
> document has no implementation experience. See #2 above.
>
GIM>> As mentioned in the SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP may not fully
address all the needs of tracing SFP. Is there any other document mentioned
in the framework that can?

>
> Dear Greg,
>
> Could you please start responding to previous questions? Apologies in
> advance if I missed any of your responses.
>
> Per our analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping an=
d
> SFP traceroute.
>
>
> Which analysis? Perhaps you could share that analysis?
>
GIM>> Gladly. I was referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As noted in the
framework draft, ICMP can be used to ping an SFC entity along the SFP if
the sender knows the IP address of that entity and the number of IP hops to
that distance (rather impractical but theoretically achievable). But can
ICMP be used to trace the given SFP without the upfront knowledge of IP
addresses of SFC entities along the SFP? Based on our analysis, not. Assume
that the destination IP address is set to the IP address of the last SFF
(similar to how ICMP traceroute works in IP network) and TTL in NSH is set
to 1. The first downstream from the sender SFF will remove the NSH and
forward the ICMP packet to its destination over the IP network. Similarly,
when NSH' TTL incremented, the second SFF will remove NSH and forward ICMP
packet to its destination, i.e. the last SFF. As a result, all ICMP echo
replies the sender will receive will be from the same SFF, from the last
SFF in the given SFP. Clearly, that is not what a traceroute tool should
produce.

>
> Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the ping function
> but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.
>
>
> What exactly did you need to add to have that functionality as opposed to
> your consideration of ICMP?
>
GIM>> A dedicated to SFC NSH OAM protocol type.

>
> Thanks!
>
> Carlos.
>
>
>
> 2020/05/20 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail=
.com>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>
> Dear All,
> this version includes a minor update to the Security Considerations
> section.
> We, the authors, believe that the draft is ready for the WG LC. It define=
s
> an essential function of SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per our
> analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP
> traceroute. Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the ping
> function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.
> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>
> Dear Jim and Joel,
> please kindly consider the WG LC for this draft.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.t=
xt
> To: Bhumip Khasnabish <vumip1@gmail.com>, Cui(Linda) Wang <
> lindawangjoy@gmail.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Wei Meng <
> meng.wei2@zte.com.cn>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
> Revision:       05
> Title:          Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks
> Document date:  2020-05-20
> Group:          sfc
> Pages:          18
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.tx=
t
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
> Htmlized:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05
> Htmlized:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
> Diff:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05
>
> Abstract:
>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and
>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is
>    presented.  Based on these requirements an encapsulation of active
>    OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects
>    described.  Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the definition of
>    O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how the
>    active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Carlos,<br><div>please find my answe=
rs and notes in-line under the GIM&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div>Please let me kno=
w if you have any further questions.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div=
><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"=
overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div>Dear Greg,</div><div><br></div><div><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>We much appreciate your comments =
and questions.</div></div></blockquote></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br=
></div><div>Thank you for asking and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s so=
me thoughts:</div></div></div><div><br></div>Hello, WG, Chairs,<div><br></d=
iv><div>I believe fundamental concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=
=80=94 examples:</div><div><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg=
/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ie=
tf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/</a></div><div><a href=3D"h=
ttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_=
oifBrhsc/</a></div><div><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sf=
c/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.=
org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/</a></div><div>And since some =
of those questions were asked during adoption, I=E2=80=99d recommend at lea=
st un-adopting this document.</div><div><br></div><div>Email threading in o=
ne-year-old and two-year-old emails is super hard to parse and follow, so s=
ome key concerns are:</div><div>1. This document describes an OAM solution,=
 but ignores the WG=E2=80=99s SFC OAM framework which sits with the IESG.</=
div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Will add the SFC OAM framework docu=
ment as Informational Reference and clarify which functionality the propose=
d mechanism addresses.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div>2. Existin=
g protocols can already provide solutions without the need of inventing a n=
ew protocol on paper. See #1 above.</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt=
; Could you kindly reference a document that describes how existing protoco=
ls can be used to troubleshoot SFC NSH? If I look at the SFC OAM framework =
draft I can only find the sub-section about the potential use of ICMP that =
closes with the following:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0It could be observed that=
 ICMP at its current stage may not be able<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0to perform all r=
equired SFC OAM functions, but as explained above, it<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0can b=
e used for some of the connectivity functions.<br></div><div>If ICMP cannot=
 be used, then what other, unnamed in the SFC OAM Framework document, exist=
ing protocol can be used as SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply mechanism?</div><div=
>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=
=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div>3. There are already documented SFC tr=
aceroute implementations but this document has no implementation experience=
. See #2 above.</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; As mentioned in th=
e SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP may not fully address all the needs of trac=
ing SFP. Is there any other document mentioned in the framework that can?=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D=
"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><br></div><div>Dear Greg,</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Could you please start responding to previous questions? Apologie=
s in advance if I missed any of your responses.</div><div><br></div><div><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Per our analysis, existing=C2=
=A0OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP traceroute. </div></=
div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Which analysis? Perhaps you could shar=
e that analysis?</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Gladly. I w=
as referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As noted in the framework draft, ICMP ca=
n be used to ping an SFC entity along the SFP if the sender knows the IP ad=
dress of that entity and the number of IP hops to that distance (rather imp=
ractical but theoretically achievable). But can ICMP be used to trace the g=
iven SFP without the upfront knowledge of IP addresses of SFC entities alon=
g the SFP? Based on our analysis, not. Assume that the destination IP addre=
ss is set to the IP address of the last SFF (similar to how ICMP traceroute=
 works in IP network) and TTL in NSH is set to 1. The first downstream from=
 the sender SFF will remove the NSH=C2=A0and forward the ICMP packet to its=
 destination over the IP network. Similarly, when NSH&#39; TTL incremented,=
 the second SFF will remove NSH and forward ICMP packet to its destination,=
 i.e. the last SFF. As a result, all ICMP echo replies the sender will rece=
ive will be from the same SFF, from the last SFF in the given SFP. Clearly,=
 that is not what a traceroute tool should produce.</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">=
<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Consider ICMP. Whe=
n encapsulated=C2=A0in NSH, it supports the ping function but, per our anal=
ysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.</div></div></blockquote><br></=
div><div>What exactly did you need to add to have that functionality as opp=
osed to your consideration of ICMP?</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt=
; A dedicated to SFC NSH OAM protocol type.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><di=
v><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br></div><div>Carlos.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div><div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>2020/05=
/20 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregi=
mirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=
=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>t=
his version includes a minor update to the Security Considerations section.=
</div><div>We, the authors, believe that the draft is ready for the WG LC. =
It defines an essential function of SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per o=
ur analysis, existing=C2=A0OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and =
SFP traceroute. Consider ICMP. When encapsulated=C2=A0in NSH, it supports t=
he ping function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing to=
ol.</div><div>We much appreciate your comments and questions.</div><div><br=
></div><div>Dear Jim and Joel,</div><div>please kindly consider the WG LC f=
or this draft.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">-------=
--- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM<br>Subject: New Versi=
on Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br>To: Bhumip Kha=
snabish &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vumip1@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">vumip1@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;, Cui(Linda) Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lindawangjoy@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">lindawangjoy@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;, Wei Meng &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_b=
lank">meng.wei2@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oa=
m<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A005<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Active OAM for Service Function Ch=
ains in Networks<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-05-20<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 18<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-mul=
ti-layer-oam-05.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a><b=
r>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam</a=
><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-lay=
er-oam-05</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in network=
s is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0presented.=C2=A0 Based on these requirements an encapsulation =
of active<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defe=
cts<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0described.=C2=A0 Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the d=
efinition of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines ho=
w the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>sfc mailing list<br><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br><a href=
=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div><=
/div></div></blockquote></div></div>

--00000000000016b3cb05a7224592--


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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Wei Meng
                          Bhumip Khasnabish
                          Cui Wang
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
	Pages           : 18
	Date            : 2020-06-02

Abstract:
   A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and
   Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is
   presented.  Based on these requirements an encapsulation of active
   OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects
   described.  Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the definition of
   O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how the
   active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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--00000000000060185505a723a0b9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear All,
this version includes the reference to the SFC OAM Framework document that
was correctly pointed out by Carlos.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:00 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
To: Cui(Linda) Wang <lindawangjoy@gmail.com>, Bhumip Khasnabish <
vumip1@gmail.com>, Wei Meng <meng.wei2@zte.com.cn>, Greg Mirsky <
gregimirsky@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
Revision:       06
Title:          Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks
Document date:  2020-06-02
Group:          sfc
Pages:          18
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
Htmlized:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06
Htmlized:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
Diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06

Abstract:
   A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and
   Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is
   presented.  Based on these requirements an encapsulation of active
   OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects
   described.  Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the definition of
   O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how the
   active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--00000000000060185505a723a0b9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>this version includes the reference to the S=
FC OAM Framework document that was correctly pointed=C2=A0out by Carlos.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message --=
-------<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@i=
etf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 =
at 6:00 PM<br>Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-la=
yer-oam-06.txt<br>To: Cui(Linda) Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lindawangjoy@gm=
ail.com">lindawangjoy@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Bhumip Khasnabish &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:vumip1@gmail.com">vumip1@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Wei Meng &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn">meng.wei2@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></=
div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oa=
m<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A006<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Active OAM for Service Function Ch=
ains in Networks<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-06-02<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 18<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-mul=
ti-layer-oam-06.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a><b=
r>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam</a=
><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-lay=
er-oam-06</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in network=
s is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0presented.=C2=A0 Based on these requirements an encapsulation =
of active<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defe=
cts<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0described.=C2=A0 Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the d=
efinition of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines ho=
w the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></div>

--00000000000060185505a723a0b9--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
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Dear Greg,

A top-level response first:

> GIM>> Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational =
Reference and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism =
addresses.

This superficial patch does not address my deep and foundational =
concern, expressed initially 2 years ago before =
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam adoption.

The idea is to start from the framework=E2=80=99s evaluation to =
understand what is needed based on that gap study, and produce a =
solutions that build on existent =E2=80=94 not work in a vacuum, and =
then add an Informational Reference orthogonally.


~~~
As a complete aside, I got curious about the filename of this I-D, which =
has nothing to do with the content.

This document went from:
            Multi-Layering OAM for Service function Chaining
Abstract
   This document tries to discuss some problems in SFC OAM framework
   document and proposes the SFC OAM multi-layering requirements in SFC
   domain to improve the troubleshooting efficiency.

To something completely different.

It is as if the filename was reused to write 2 or 3 different drafts. =
Looking at diffs, there is not a single sentence that remained from =
earlier versions.
~~~

Comments inline.

> 2020/06/02 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C7:28=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky =
<gregimirsky@gmail.com>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>=20
> Dear Carlos,
> please find my answers and notes in-line under the GIM>> tag.
> Please let me know if you have any further questions.
>=20
> Regards,
> Greg
>=20
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
<cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
> Dear Greg,
>=20
>> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>=20
>=20
> Thank you for asking and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s some =
thoughts:
>=20
> Hello, WG, Chairs,
>=20
> I believe fundamental concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=80=94=
 examples:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/ =
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/>
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/ =
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/>
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/ =
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/>
> And since some of those questions were asked during adoption, I=E2=80=99=
d recommend at least un-adopting this document.
>=20
> Email threading in one-year-old and two-year-old emails is super hard =
to parse and follow, so some key concerns are:
> 1. This document describes an OAM solution, but ignores the WG=E2=80=99s=
 SFC OAM framework which sits with the IESG.
> GIM>> Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational =
Reference and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism =
addresses.

See above.

>=20
> 2. Existing protocols can already provide solutions without the need =
of inventing a new protocol on paper. See #1 above.
> GIM>> Could you kindly reference a document that describes how =
existing protocols can be used to troubleshoot SFC NSH? If I look at the =
SFC OAM framework draft I can only find the sub-section about the =
potential use of ICMP that closes with the following:
>    It could be observed that ICMP at its current stage may not be able
>    to perform all required SFC OAM functions, but as explained above, =
it
>    can be used for some of the connectivity functions.
> If ICMP cannot be used, then what other, unnamed in the SFC OAM =
Framework document, existing protocol can be used as SFC NSH Echo =
Request/Reply mechanism?
>=20

What I read in that paragraph is:
1. ICMP can as-is solve many (but not ALL) required OAM functions.
2. Adding to ICMP is the path of least resistance, it is largely there, =
but needs additions to support ALL OAM functions.

> 3. There are already documented SFC traceroute implementations but =
this document has no implementation experience. See #2 above.
> GIM>> As mentioned in the SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP may not fully =
address all the needs of tracing SFP. Is there any other document =
mentioned in the framework that can?

Greg,
1. Yes, I-D.penno-sfc-trace has the indisputable running code proof.
2. Instead of copying MPLS LSP Ping into a brand new protocol, fill in =
the gaps based on existing modules.

The point here is implementation experience =E2=80=94 could you answer =
the still unanswered question #1 here?
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/ =
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/>


>=20
> Dear Greg,
>=20
> Could you please start responding to previous questions? Apologies in =
advance if I missed any of your responses.
>=20
>> Per our analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP =
ping and SFP traceroute.
>=20
> Which analysis? Perhaps you could share that analysis?
> GIM>> Gladly. I was referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As noted in the =
framework draft, ICMP can be used to ping an SFC entity along the SFP if =
the sender knows the IP address of that entity and the number of IP hops =
to that distance (rather impractical but theoretically achievable). But =
can ICMP be used to trace the given SFP without the upfront knowledge of =
IP addresses of SFC entities along the SFP? Based on our analysis, not. =
Assume that the destination IP address is set to the IP address of the =
last SFF (similar to how ICMP traceroute works in IP network) and TTL in =
NSH is set to 1. The first downstream from the sender SFF will remove =
the NSH and forward the ICMP packet to its destination over the IP =
network.

NOT.

As I had pointed out earlier, there are MANY ways of intercepting a =
packet. Use an IP option or a flag in the NSH.

Problems with your logic:
1. When you say ICMP you are thinking unmodified ICMP Echo packet. Think =
outside that box.
2. Whatever you use you need to intercept.

> Similarly, when NSH' TTL incremented, the second SFF will remove NSH =
and forward ICMP packet to its destination, i.e. the last SFF. As a =
result, all ICMP echo replies the sender will receive will be from the =
same SFF, from the last SFF in the given SFP. Clearly, that is not what =
a traceroute tool should produce.
>=20
>> Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the ping =
function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.
>=20
> What exactly did you need to add to have that functionality as opposed =
to your consideration of ICMP?
> GIM>> A dedicated to SFC NSH OAM protocol type.
>=20

Incorrect again. There is no technical need to add an SFC NSH OAM =
protocol type. There are many ways of marking a pak as OAM and =
demultiplexing the protocol.

I do understand you have a solution in mind.

Carlos.

> Thanks!
>=20
> Carlos.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> 2020/05/20 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky =
<gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=
=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>>=20
>> Dear All,
>> this version includes a minor update to the Security Considerations =
section.
>> We, the authors, believe that the draft is ready for the WG LC. It =
defines an essential function of SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per =
our analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and =
SFP traceroute. Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the =
ping function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing =
tool.
>> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>>=20
>> Dear Jim and Joel,
>> please kindly consider the WG LC for this draft.
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>=20
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>
>> Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM
>> Subject: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
>> To: Bhumip Khasnabish <vumip1@gmail.com <mailto:vumip1@gmail.com>>, =
Cui(Linda) Wang <lindawangjoy@gmail.com =
<mailto:lindawangjoy@gmail.com>>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com =
<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>, Wei Meng <meng.wei2@zte.com.cn =
<mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn>>
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>=20
>> Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
>> Revision:       05
>> Title:          Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks
>> Document date:  2020-05-20
>> Group:          sfc
>> Pages:          18
>> URL:            =
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt=
 =
<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.tx=
t>
>> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/>
>> Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05>
>> Htmlized:       =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam>
>> Diff:           =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05 =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05>
>>=20
>> Abstract:
>>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and
>>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is
>>    presented.  Based on these requirements an encapsulation of active
>>    OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects
>>    described.  Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the definition =
of
>>    O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how =
the
>>    active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org =
<http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>>=20
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>

--Apple-Mail=_DA0782B6-49F7-403F-9801-6E3A54CA742C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Dear =
Greg,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A top-level =
response first:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; Will =
add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational Reference and =
clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism =
addresses.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"">This =
superficial patch does not address my deep and foundational concern, =
expressed initially 2 years ago before =
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam&nbsp;adoption.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The idea is to start from the =
framework=E2=80=99s evaluation to understand what is needed based on =
that gap study, and produce a solutions that build on existent =E2=80=94 =
not work in a vacuum, and then add an Informational Reference =
orthogonally.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">~~~</div><div =
class=3D"">As a complete aside, I got curious about the filename of this =
I-D, which has nothing to do with the content.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This document went from:</div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
Multi-Layering OAM for Service function Chaining</div><div =
class=3D"">Abstract</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;This document =
tries to discuss some problems in SFC OAM framework</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;document and proposes the SFC OAM multi-layering =
requirements in SFC</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;domain to improve =
the troubleshooting efficiency.</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">To something completely =
different.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">It is as if the filename was reused to write 2 or 3 different =
drafts. Looking at diffs, there is not a single sentence that remained =
from earlier versions.</div><div class=3D"">~~~</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Comments inline.<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">2020/06/02=
 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C7:28=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB=
:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Dear Carlos,<br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">please find my answers and notes in-line =
under the GIM&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div class=3D"">Please let me know if =
you have any further questions.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regards,</div><div =
class=3D"">Greg</div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos =
Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Dear =
Greg,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">We much appreciate your comments and =
questions.</div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thank =
you for asking and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s some =
thoughts:</div></div></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hello, =
WG, Chairs,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
believe fundamental concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=80=94 =
examples:</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvN=
teQ/" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLq=
KvNteQ/</a></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBr=
hsc/" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oi=
fBrhsc/</a></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_p=
DOs/" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9W=
v_pDOs/</a></div><div class=3D"">And since some of those questions were =
asked during adoption, I=E2=80=99d recommend at least un-adopting this =
document.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Email =
threading in one-year-old and two-year-old emails is super hard to parse =
and follow, so some key concerns are:</div><div class=3D"">1. This =
document describes an OAM solution, but ignores the WG=E2=80=99s SFC OAM =
framework which sits with the IESG.</div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; Will add the SFC OAM framework document as =
Informational Reference and clarify which functionality the proposed =
mechanism addresses.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>See above.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; =
border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">2. Existing protocols can =
already provide solutions without the need of inventing a new protocol =
on paper. See #1 above.</div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; Could you kindly reference a document that =
describes how existing protocols can be used to troubleshoot SFC NSH? If =
I look at the SFC OAM framework draft I can only find the sub-section =
about the potential use of ICMP that closes with the =
following:</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;It could be observed that =
ICMP at its current stage may not be able<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;to =
perform all required SFC OAM functions, but as explained above, it<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;can be used for some of the connectivity =
functions.<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If ICMP cannot be used, =
then what other, unnamed in the SFC OAM Framework document, existing =
protocol can be used as SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply mechanism?</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>What I read in that paragraph is:</div><div>1. =
ICMP can as-is solve many (but not ALL) required OAM =
functions.</div><div>2. Adding to ICMP is the path of least resistance, =
it is largely there, but needs additions to support ALL OAM =
functions.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; =
border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">3. There are already documented =
SFC traceroute implementations but this document has no implementation =
experience. See #2 above.</div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; As mentioned in the SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP =
may not fully address all the needs of tracing SFP. Is there any other =
document mentioned in the framework that =
can?&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Greg,</div><div>1. Yes,&nbsp;I-D.penno-sfc-trace =
has the indisputable running code proof.</div><div>2. Instead of copying =
MPLS LSP Ping into a brand new protocol, fill in the gaps based on =
existing modules.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The point here is =
implementation experience =E2=80=94 could you answer the still =
unanswered question #1 here?</div><div><a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvN=
teQ/" =
class=3D"">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLq=
KvNteQ/</a></div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Dear Greg,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Could you please start responding to =
previous questions? Apologies in advance if I missed any of your =
responses.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Per our analysis, existing&nbsp;OAM =
mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP traceroute.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div></div></blockquote><div=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Which analysis? Perhaps =
you could share that analysis?</div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; Gladly. I was referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As =
noted in the framework draft, ICMP can be used to ping an SFC entity =
along the SFP if the sender knows the IP address of that entity and the =
number of IP hops to that distance (rather impractical but theoretically =
achievable). But can ICMP be used to trace the given SFP without the =
upfront knowledge of IP addresses of SFC entities along the SFP? Based =
on our analysis, not. Assume that the destination IP address is set to =
the IP address of the last SFF (similar to how ICMP traceroute works in =
IP network) and TTL in NSH is set to 1. The first downstream from the =
sender SFF will remove the NSH&nbsp;and forward the ICMP packet to its =
destination over the IP =
network.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>NOT.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>As I had =
pointed out earlier, there are MANY ways of intercepting a packet. Use =
an IP option or a flag in the NSH.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Problems with your logic:</div><div>1. When you =
say ICMP you are thinking unmodified ICMP Echo packet. Think outside =
that box.</div><div>2. Whatever you use you need to intercept.</div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""> Similarly, =
when NSH' TTL incremented, the second SFF will remove NSH and forward =
ICMP packet to its destination, i.e. the last SFF. As a result, all ICMP =
echo replies the sender will receive will be from the same SFF, from the =
last SFF in the given SFP. Clearly, that is not what a traceroute tool =
should produce.</div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Consider ICMP. When encapsulated&nbsp;in NSH, =
it supports the ping function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as =
an SFP tracing tool.</div></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">What exactly did you need to add to have that functionality =
as opposed to your consideration of ICMP?</div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; A dedicated to SFC NSH OAM protocol =
type.&nbsp;</div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><b=
r class=3D""></div><div>Incorrect again. There is no technical need to =
add an SFC NSH OAM protocol type. There are many ways of marking a pak =
as OAM and demultiplexing the protocol.&nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I do understand you have a solution in =
mind.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Carlos.</div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote style=3D"margin: =
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Thanks!</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Carlos.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">2020/05/20 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=81Greg=
 Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB=
:</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Dear =
All,<div class=3D"">this version includes a minor update to the Security =
Considerations section.</div><div class=3D"">We, the authors, believe =
that the draft is ready for the WG LC. It defines an essential function =
of SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per our analysis, existing&nbsp;OAM =
mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP traceroute. Consider =
ICMP. When encapsulated&nbsp;in NSH, it supports the ping function but, =
per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.</div><div =
class=3D"">We much appreciate your comments and questions.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Dear Jim and =
Joel,</div><div class=3D"">please kindly consider the WG LC for this =
draft.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Greg</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br =
class=3D"">From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br =
class=3D"">Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM<br class=3D"">Subject: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br =
class=3D"">To: Bhumip Khasnabish &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vumip1@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">vumip1@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Cui(Linda) Wang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lindawangjoy@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">lindawangjoy@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Wei Meng &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">meng.wei2@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">A new version of I-D, =
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br class=3D"">has been =
successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br class=3D"">IETF=
 repository.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Name:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam<br =
class=3D"">Revision:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;05<br =
class=3D"">Title:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Active OAM for =
Service Function Chains in Networks<br class=3D"">Document date:&nbsp; =
2020-05-20<br class=3D"">Group:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; sfc<br =
class=3D"">Pages:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18<br =
class=3D"">URL:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oa=
m-05.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer=
-oam-05.txt</a><br class=3D"">Status:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam=
/</a><br class=3D"">Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05</=
a><br class=3D"">Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-laye=
r-oam</a><br class=3D"">Diff:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam=
-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-=
oam-05</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Abstract:<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains =
(SFCs) in networks is<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;presented.&nbsp; Based =
on these requirements an encapsulation of active<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize =
defects<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;described.&nbsp; Also, this document =
updates RFC 8300 in the definition of<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;O (OAM) =
bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the =
time of submission<br class=3D"">until the htmlized version and diff are =
available at<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The IETF =
Secretariat<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div>_____________________________________________=
__<br class=3D"">sfc mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a></div></blockquote=
></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div=
><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 01:59:45 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
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Dear Greg,

Let me correct what I pointed out.

I did NOT point out that a reference / citation to the SFC OAM Framework =
was missing.

I DID point out that this is a solution over engineered in a corner =
without consideration for the work done on the framework.

An after-the-fact reference does not fix that :-)

Best,

Carlos.

> 2020/06/02 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C9:05=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky =
<gregimirsky@gmail.com>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>=20
> Dear All,
> this version includes the reference to the SFC OAM Framework document =
that was correctly pointed out by Carlos.
>=20
> Regards,
> Greg
>=20
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>
> Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:00 PM
> Subject: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
> To: Cui(Linda) Wang <lindawangjoy@gmail.com =
<mailto:lindawangjoy@gmail.com>>, Bhumip Khasnabish <vumip1@gmail.com =
<mailto:vumip1@gmail.com>>, Wei Meng <meng.wei2@zte.com.cn =
<mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn>>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com =
<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>=20
> Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
> Revision:       06
> Title:          Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks
> Document date:  2020-06-02
> Group:          sfc
> Pages:          18
> URL:            =
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt=
 =
<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.tx=
t>
> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/>
> Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06>
> Htmlized:       =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam>
> Diff:           =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06 =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06>
>=20
> Abstract:
>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and
>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is
>    presented.  Based on these requirements an encapsulation of active
>    OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects
>    described.  Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the definition =
of
>    O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how the
>    active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org =
<http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_026A1E17-B546-4DC4-821D-EDCAAD85EC28
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Dear =
Greg,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Let me correct =
what I pointed out.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I did NOT point out that a reference / citation to the SFC =
OAM Framework was missing.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I DID point out that this is a solution over engineered in a =
corner without consideration for the work done on the =
framework.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">An =
after-the-fact reference does not fix that :-)</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Best,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Carlos.<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">2020/06/02=
 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C9:05=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB=
:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Dear All,<div class=3D"">this =
version includes the reference to the SFC OAM Framework document that =
was correctly pointed&nbsp;out by Carlos.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Greg<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br =
class=3D"">From: <span dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br class=3D"">Date: =
Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:00 PM<br class=3D"">Subject: New Version =
Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt<br class=3D"">To: =
Cui(Linda) Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lindawangjoy@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">lindawangjoy@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Bhumip Khasnabish &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:vumip1@gmail.com" class=3D"">vumip1@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
Wei Meng &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn" =
class=3D"">meng.wei2@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">
A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt<br class=3D"">=

has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br =
class=3D"">
IETF repository.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Name:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam<br class=3D"">
Revision:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;06<br class=3D"">
Title:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Active OAM for Service Function =
Chains in Networks<br class=3D"">
Document date:&nbsp; 2020-06-02<br class=3D"">
Group:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; sfc<br class=3D"">
Pages:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18<br class=3D"">
URL:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oa=
m-06.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer=
-oam-06.txt</a><br class=3D"">
Status:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam=
/</a><br class=3D"">
Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06</=
a><br class=3D"">
Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-laye=
r-oam</a><br class=3D"">
Diff:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam=
-06" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-=
oam-06</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Abstract:<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration =
and<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in =
networks is<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;presented.&nbsp; Based on these requirements an =
encapsulation of active<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize =
defects<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;described.&nbsp; Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in =
the definition of<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines =
how the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission<br class=3D"">
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
The IETF Secretariat<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>
References: <159114603032.22709.3974797102414643563@ietfa.amsl.com> <CA+RyBmWKNwOo=Qd6uYZKNACoH9JyKdgnNP8psU+nFD=Gu+NBkA@mail.gmail.com> <956416F6-006F-47D4-B10E-6FCD08886C6C@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
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While Greg and Carlos discuss this, it would be helpful to the chairs if 
other folks who have opinions on these issues would speak up.

Thank you,
Joel

On 6/2/2020 9:59 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
> Dear Greg,
> 
> Let me correct what I pointed out.
> 
> I did NOT point out that a reference / citation to the SFC OAM Framework 
> was missing.
> 
> I DID point out that this is a solution over engineered in a corner 
> without consideration for the work done on the framework.
> 
> An after-the-fact reference does not fix that :-)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Carlos.
> 
>> 2020/06/02 午後9:05、Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>のメール:
>>
>> Dear All,
>> this version includes the reference to the SFC OAM Framework document 
>> that was correctly pointed out by Carlos.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>
>> Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:00 PM
>> Subject: New Version Notification for 
>> draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
>> To: Cui(Linda) Wang <lindawangjoy@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:lindawangjoy@gmail.com>>, Bhumip Khasnabish <vumip1@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:vumip1@gmail.com>>, Wei Meng <meng.wei2@zte.com.cn 
>> <mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn>>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
>> Revision:       06
>> Title:          Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks
>> Document date:  2020-06-02
>> Group:          sfc
>> Pages:          18
>> URL: 
>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06.txt
>> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
>> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06
>> Htmlized: 
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
>> Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and
>>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is
>>    presented.  Based on these requirements an encapsulation of active
>>    OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects
>>    described.  Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the definition of
>>    O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how the
>>    active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of 
>> submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org 
>> <http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>>
> 


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References: <159002475323.18843.9559672930298713998@ietfa.amsl.com> <CA+RyBmXXRoPkhXjhpneC8UyBDbxh8P81YDYpRTnbqQiLu64ogQ@mail.gmail.com> <D09FF572-A4CD-464A-BC09-81064B29E517@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmVObnN8=AbpWveoK0V9fZGDF=UFr+L=9iN5G-NxFq0vgg@mail.gmail.com> <0A514F1F-342B-4DC7-B7E9-F81BE0AFEA02@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <0A514F1F-342B-4DC7-B7E9-F81BE0AFEA02@cisco.com>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:33:53 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmU8Q3N91YEgdFaJvYpttm9ZzcZzQdV9TDEctyLh9Jiu7w@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
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Dear Carlos,
please find my answers and notes below in-line under GIM2>> tag.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Dear Greg,
>
> A top-level response first:
>
> GIM>> Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational Reference
> and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism addresses.
>
>
> This superficial patch does not address my deep and foundational concern,
> expressed initially 2 years ago before
> draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam adoption.
>
> The idea is to start from the framework=E2=80=99s evaluation to understan=
d what is
> needed based on that gap study, and produce a solutions that build on
> existent =E2=80=94 not work in a vacuum, and then add an Informational Re=
ference
> orthogonally.
>
>
> ~~~
> As a complete aside, I got curious about the filename of this I-D, which
> has nothing to do with the content.
>
> This document went from:
>             Multi-Layering OAM for Service function Chaining
> Abstract
>    This document tries to discuss some problems in SFC OAM framework
>    document and proposes the SFC OAM multi-layering requirements in SFC
>    domain to improve the troubleshooting efficiency.
>
> To something completely different.
>
> It is as if the filename was reused to write 2 or 3 different drafts.
> Looking at diffs, there is not a single sentence that remained from earli=
er
> versions.
> ~~~
>
GIM2>> In the opinion of authors, that is the reflection of the evolution
of the document. do you see that to be a violation of any IETF process?

>
> Comments inline.
>
> 2020/06/02 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C7:28=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.=
com>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>
> Dear Carlos,
> please find my answers and notes in-line under the GIM>> tag.
> Please let me know if you have any further questions.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Greg,
>>
>> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>>
>>
>> Thank you for asking and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s some though=
ts:
>>
>> Hello, WG, Chairs,
>>
>> I believe fundamental concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=80=
=94
>> examples:
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/
>> And since some of those questions were asked during adoption, I=E2=80=99=
d
>> recommend at least un-adopting this document.
>>
>> Email threading in one-year-old and two-year-old emails is super hard to
>> parse and follow, so some key concerns are:
>> 1. This document describes an OAM solution, but ignores the WG=E2=80=99s=
 SFC OAM
>> framework which sits with the IESG.
>>
> GIM>> Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational Reference
> and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism addresses.
>
>
> See above.
>
>
> 2. Existing protocols can already provide solutions without the need of
>> inventing a new protocol on paper. See #1 above.
>>
> GIM>> Could you kindly reference a document that describes how existing
> protocols can be used to troubleshoot SFC NSH? If I look at the SFC OAM
> framework draft I can only find the sub-section about the potential use o=
f
> ICMP that closes with the following:
>    It could be observed that ICMP at its current stage may not be able
>    to perform all required SFC OAM functions, but as explained above, it
>    can be used for some of the connectivity functions.
> If ICMP cannot be used, then what other, unnamed in the SFC OAM Framework
> document, existing protocol can be used as SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply
> mechanism?
>
>
>
> What I read in that paragraph is:
> 1. ICMP can as-is solve many (but not ALL) required OAM functions.
> 2. Adding to ICMP is the path of least resistance, it is largely there,
> but needs additions to support ALL OAM functions.
>
GIM2>> We appreciate you sharing your ideas but authors decided to develop
an alternative approach. Also, we note that as you've mentioned above, you
have made this suggestion two years ago. IETF, as we understand, is a
contribution-driven organization and the fact that in, at least, two years
no one, including you, produced a document, using the suggested by you
approach, probably can be interpreted as lack of interest to that idea.

>
> 3. There are already documented SFC traceroute implementations but this
>> document has no implementation experience. See #2 above.
>>
> GIM>> As mentioned in the SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP may not fully
> address all the needs of tracing SFP. Is there any other document mention=
ed
> in the framework that can?
>
>
> Greg,
> 1. Yes, I-D.penno-sfc-trace has the indisputable running code proof.
>
GIM2>> It is interesting that you present a draft that was abandoned by its
authors for more than five years as a possible foundation of a
specification to facilitate interoperable implementations. Personally, I am
not questioning that there are tools to address the problem that we are
addressing with the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply proposal. But these are
proprietary tools and, at least so far, none of its authors stepped in with
a document sufficient to have interoperable implementations.

> 2. Instead of copying MPLS LSP Ping into a brand new protocol, fill in th=
e
> gaps based on existing modules.
>
GIM2>> Again, thank you for sharing your suggestions. True, SFC NSH shares
ideas with the design proven by MPLS LSP. Our approach is no different from
the approach taken by authors, including you and me, of draft-ietf-bier-pin=
g
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ping/>. As noted earlier,
the fact that there's no contribution that uses the path you've been
advocating for 2+ years may be interpreted as the indication that it is not
a practical direction.

>
> The point here is implementation experience =E2=80=94 could you answer th=
e still
> unanswered question #1 here?
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/
>
GIM2>> I will look into it and respond in a separate mail.

>
>
>
>> Dear Greg,
>>
>> Could you please start responding to previous questions? Apologies in
>> advance if I missed any of your responses.
>>
>> Per our analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping
>> and SFP traceroute.
>>
>>
>> Which analysis? Perhaps you could share that analysis?
>>
> GIM>> Gladly. I was referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As noted in the
> framework draft, ICMP can be used to ping an SFC entity along the SFP if
> the sender knows the IP address of that entity and the number of IP hops =
to
> that distance (rather impractical but theoretically achievable). But can
> ICMP be used to trace the given SFP without the upfront knowledge of IP
> addresses of SFC entities along the SFP? Based on our analysis, not. Assu=
me
> that the destination IP address is set to the IP address of the last SFF
> (similar to how ICMP traceroute works in IP network) and TTL in NSH is se=
t
> to 1. The first downstream from the sender SFF will remove the NSH and
> forward the ICMP packet to its destination over the IP network.
>
>
> NOT.
>
> As I had pointed out earlier, there are MANY ways of intercepting a
> packet. Use an IP option or a flag in the NSH.
>
GIM2>> I don't argue that the solution described in the draft is the only
possible. But can you point to a document that describes, sufficiently
accurately

>
> Problems with your logic:
> 1. When you say ICMP you are thinking unmodified ICMP Echo packet. Think
> outside that box.
>
GIM2>> Again, thank you for sharing your ideas. Probably some of your
colleagues will get interested and develop a solution based on them.

> 2. Whatever you use you need to intercept.
>
GIM2>> Agree. I believe that the solution described in the draft addresses
that problem.

>
> Similarly, when NSH' TTL incremented, the second SFF will remove NSH and
> forward ICMP packet to its destination, i.e. the last SFF. As a result, a=
ll
> ICMP echo replies the sender will receive will be from the same SFF, from
> the last SFF in the given SFP. Clearly, that is not what a traceroute too=
l
> should produce.
>
>>
>> Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the ping function
>> but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.
>>
>>
>> What exactly did you need to add to have that functionality as opposed t=
o
>> your consideration of ICMP?
>>
> GIM>> A dedicated to SFC NSH OAM protocol type.
>
>>
>>
> Incorrect again. There is no technical need to add an SFC NSH OAM protoco=
l
> type. There are many ways of marking a pak as OAM and demultiplexing the
> protocol.
>
GIM2>> We, the authors, are not claiming that the proposed solution is the
only one possible. We've analyzed options and decided to develop this
approach. Others can decide differently and present their work as a draft.

>
> I do understand you have a solution in mind.
>
GIM2>> Indeed, it is documented in the draft being discussed. Also, there
are several individual SFC OAM drafts that use SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply
mechanism.

>
> Carlos.
>
> Thanks!
>>
>> Carlos.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2020/05/20 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmai=
l.com>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>>
>> Dear All,
>> this version includes a minor update to the Security Considerations
>> section.
>> We, the authors, believe that the draft is ready for the WG LC. It
>> defines an essential function of SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per o=
ur
>> analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP
>> traceroute. Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the pin=
g
>> function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.
>> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>>
>> Dear Jim and Joel,
>> please kindly consider the WG LC for this draft.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>> Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM
>> Subject: New Version Notification for
>> draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
>> To: Bhumip Khasnabish <vumip1@gmail.com>, Cui(Linda) Wang <
>> lindawangjoy@gmail.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Wei Meng <
>> meng.wei2@zte.com.cn>
>>
>>
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
>> Revision:       05
>> Title:          Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks
>> Document date:  2020-05-20
>> Group:          sfc
>> Pages:          18
>> URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.t=
xt
>> Status:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
>> Htmlized:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05
>> Htmlized:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
>> Diff:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and
>>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is
>>    presented.  Based on these requirements an encapsulation of active
>>    OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects
>>    described.  Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the definition of
>>    O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how the
>>    active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Carlos,<br><div>please find my answe=
rs and notes below in-line under GIM2&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Carlos Pignata=
ro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpignata@cisco.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><=
div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">Dear Greg,<div><br></div><div>A to=
p-level response first:</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Will add the S=
FC OAM framework document as Informational Reference and clarify which func=
tionality the proposed mechanism addresses.</div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div></div></div>=
</div></div><div>This superficial patch does not address my deep and founda=
tional concern, expressed initially 2 years ago before draft-ietf-sfc-multi=
-layer-oam=C2=A0adoption.</div><div><br></div><div>The idea is to start fro=
m the framework=E2=80=99s evaluation to understand what is needed based on =
that gap study, and produce a solutions that build on existent =E2=80=94 no=
t work in a vacuum, and then add an Informational Reference orthogonally.</=
div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>~~~</div><div>As a complete aside, I=
 got curious about the filename of this I-D, which has nothing to do with t=
he content.</div><div><br></div><div>This document went from:</div><div><di=
v>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Multi-Layering OAM for Service =
function Chaining</div><div>Abstract</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document t=
ries to discuss some problems in SFC OAM framework</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0d=
ocument and proposes the SFC OAM multi-layering requirements in SFC</div><d=
iv>=C2=A0 =C2=A0domain to improve the troubleshooting efficiency.</div><br>=
To something completely different.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>It is as =
if the filename was reused to write 2 or 3 different drafts. Looking at dif=
fs, there is not a single sentence that remained from earlier versions.</di=
v><div>~~~</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; In the opinion of auth=
ors, that is the reflection of the evolution of the document. do you see th=
at to be a violation of any IETF process?=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div>=
<br></div><div>Comments inline.<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>=
2020/06/02 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C7:28=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=
=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"=
font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:no=
rmal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:=
0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration=
:none"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Carlos,<br><div>please find my answers and not=
es in-line under the GIM&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div>Please let me know if you h=
ave any further questions.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg=
</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><=
div>Dear Greg,</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div>We much appreciate your comments and questions.</div></div></=
blockquote></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>Thank you for as=
king and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s some thoughts:</div></div></di=
v><div><br></div>Hello, WG, Chairs,<div><br></div><div>I believe fundamenta=
l concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=80=94 examples:</div><div><=
a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKv=
NteQ/" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBu=
vaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/</a></div><div><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/=
arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/" target=3D"_blank">https://mailar=
chive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/</a></div><div><a h=
ref=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDO=
s/" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXere=
je4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/</a></div><div>And since some of those questions were aske=
d during adoption, I=E2=80=99d recommend at least un-adopting this document=
.</div><div><br></div><div>Email threading in one-year-old and two-year-old=
 emails is super hard to parse and follow, so some key concerns are:</div><=
div>1. This document describes an OAM solution, but ignores the WG=E2=80=99=
s SFC OAM framework which sits with the IESG.</div></div></blockquote><div>=
GIM&gt;&gt; Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational Refere=
nce and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism addresses.</div>=
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>See above.</div><div><br><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;=
font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:norma=
l;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:non=
e;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div><br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div><div>2. Existing protocols can already provide solutions without the=
 need of inventing a new protocol on paper. See #1 above.</div></div></bloc=
kquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Could you kindly reference a document that describe=
s how existing protocols can be used to troubleshoot SFC NSH? If I look at =
the SFC OAM framework draft I can only find the sub-section about the poten=
tial use of ICMP that closes with the following:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0It =
could be observed that ICMP at its current stage may not be able<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0to perform all required SFC OAM functions, but as explained above, it=
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0can be used for some of the connectivity functions.<br></d=
iv><div>If ICMP cannot be used, then what other, unnamed in the SFC OAM Fra=
mework document, existing protocol can be used as SFC NSH Echo Request/Repl=
y mechanism?</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>=
</div><div>What I read in that paragraph is:</div><div>1. ICMP can as-is so=
lve many (but not ALL) required OAM functions.</div><div>2. Adding to ICMP =
is the path of least resistance, it is largely there, but needs additions t=
o support ALL OAM functions.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&=
gt;&gt; We appreciate you sharing your ideas but authors decided to develop=
 an alternative approach. Also, we note that as you&#39;ve mentioned above,=
 you have made this suggestion two years ago. IETF, as we understand, is a =
contribution-driven organization and the fact that in, at least, two years =
no one, including you, produced a document, using the suggested by you appr=
oach, probably can be interpreted=C2=A0as lack of interest to that idea.=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"ov=
erflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:norma=
l;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-al=
ign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spaci=
ng:0px;text-decoration:none"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div>3. There are already documented =
SFC traceroute implementations but this document has no implementation expe=
rience. See #2 above.</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; As mentioned=
 in the SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP may not fully address all the needs o=
f tracing SFP. Is there any other document mentioned in the framework that =
can?=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Greg,</d=
iv><div>1. Yes,=C2=A0I-D.penno-sfc-trace has the indisputable running code =
proof.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; It is interest=
ing that you present a draft that was abandoned by its authors for more tha=
n five years as a possible foundation of a specification to facilitate inte=
roperable implementations. Personally, I am not questioning that there are =
tools to address the problem that we are addressing with the SFC NSH Echo R=
equest/Reply proposal. But these are proprietary tools and, at least so far=
, none of its authors stepped in with a document sufficient to have interop=
erable implementations.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div>2. Instead of =
copying MPLS LSP Ping into a brand new protocol, fill in the gaps based on =
existing modules.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Aga=
in, thank you for sharing your suggestions. True, SFC NSH shares ideas with=
 the design proven by MPLS LSP. Our approach is no different from the appro=
ach taken by authors, including you and me, of <a href=3D"https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ping/">draft-ietf-bier-ping</a>. As noted e=
arlier, the fact that there&#39;s no contribution that uses the path you&#3=
9;ve been advocating for 2+ years may be interpreted as the indication that=
 it is not a practical direction.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div><br>=
</div><div>The point here is implementation experience =E2=80=94 could you =
answer the still unanswered question #1 here?</div><div><a href=3D"https://=
mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/" target=3D"_=
blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNte=
Q/</a></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; I will look in=
to it and respond in a separate mail.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div=
><div><br></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-cap=
s:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-ind=
ent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decora=
tion:none"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div><div><br></div><div>Dear Greg,</div><div><br></div><div>C=
ould you please start responding to previous questions? Apologies in advanc=
e if I missed any of your responses.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Per our analysis, existing=C2=A0OAM mech=
anisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP traceroute.<span>=C2=A0</span><=
/div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Which analysis? Perhaps you cou=
ld share that analysis?</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Glad=
ly. I was referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As noted in the framework draft, =
ICMP can be used to ping an SFC entity along the SFP if the sender knows th=
e IP address of that entity and the number of IP hops to that distance (rat=
her impractical but theoretically achievable). But can ICMP be used to trac=
e the given SFP without the upfront knowledge of IP addresses of SFC entiti=
es along the SFP? Based on our analysis, not. Assume that the destination I=
P address is set to the IP address of the last SFF (similar to how ICMP tra=
ceroute works in IP network) and TTL in NSH is set to 1. The first downstre=
am from the sender SFF will remove the NSH=C2=A0and forward the ICMP packet=
 to its destination over the IP network.</div></div></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><br></div><div>NOT.</div><div><br></div><div>As I had pointed out ea=
rlier, there are MANY ways of intercepting a packet. Use an IP option or a =
flag in the NSH.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; I do=
n&#39;t argue that the solution described in the draft is the only possible=
. But can you point to a document that describes, sufficiently accurately=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D=
"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div><br></div><div>Problems with yo=
ur logic:</div><div>1. When you say ICMP you are thinking unmodified ICMP E=
cho packet. Think outside that box.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><di=
v>GIM2&gt;&gt; Again, thank you for sharing your ideas. Probably some of yo=
ur colleagues will get interested and develop a solution based on them.</di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-=
wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div>2. Whatever you use you need to intercept=
.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Agree. I believe th=
at the solution described in the draft addresses that problem.=C2=A0</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wra=
p: break-word;"><div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"lt=
r" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-var=
iant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;=
text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex=
t-decoration:none"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div> Similarly, when NSH&#39=
; TTL incremented, the second SFF will remove NSH and forward ICMP packet t=
o its destination, i.e. the last SFF. As a result, all ICMP echo replies th=
e sender will receive will be from the same SFF, from the last SFF in the g=
iven SFP. Clearly, that is not what a traceroute tool should produce.</div>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div><br><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Consider ICMP. When encapsulated=C2=A0=
in NSH, it supports the ping function but, per our analysis, cannot be used=
 as an SFP tracing tool.</div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>What exactl=
y did you need to add to have that functionality as opposed to your conside=
ration of ICMP?</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; A dedicated to SFC=
 NSH OAM protocol type.=C2=A0</div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div><div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockq=
uote><div><br></div><div>Incorrect again. There is no technical need to add=
 an SFC NSH OAM protocol type. There are many ways of marking a pak as OAM =
and demultiplexing the protocol.=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote>=
<div>GIM2&gt;&gt; We, the authors, are not claiming that the proposed solut=
ion is the only one possible. We&#39;ve analyzed=C2=A0options and decided t=
o develop this approach. Others can decide differently and present their wo=
rk as a draft.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div><br></div><div>I do und=
erstand you have a solution in mind.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv>GIM2&gt;&gt; Indeed, it is documented in the draft being discussed. Also=
, there are several individual SFC OAM drafts that use SFC NSH Echo Request=
/Reply mechanism.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><d=
iv style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div><br></div><div>Carlo=
s.</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;f=
ont-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;te=
xt-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br></div><div>Carlos.</div><div><br></div><=
div><br></div><div><div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>2020/05/20 =
=E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirs=
ky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=
=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>this=
 version includes a minor update to the Security Considerations section.</d=
iv><div>We, the authors, believe that the draft is ready for the WG LC. It =
defines an essential function of SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per our =
analysis, existing=C2=A0OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP=
 traceroute. Consider ICMP. When encapsulated=C2=A0in NSH, it supports the =
ping function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.=
</div><div>We much appreciate your comments and questions.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Dear Jim and Joel,</div><div>please kindly consider the WG LC for =
this draft.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">----------=
 Forwarded message ---------<br>From:<span>=C2=A0</span><span dir=3D"auto">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-=
drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM<br>Sub=
ject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br=
>To: Bhumip Khasnabish &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vumip1@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">vumip1@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Cui(Linda) Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda=
wangjoy@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lindawangjoy@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Greg M=
irsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregim=
irsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Wei Meng &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.c=
n" target=3D"_blank">meng.wei2@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>A ne=
w version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br>has been success=
fully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>IETF repository.<br><br=
>Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am<br>Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A005<br>Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks<br>Documen=
t date:=C2=A0 2020-05-20<br>Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc<br=
>Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 18<br>URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/inte=
rnet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-laye=
r-oam-05.txt</a><br>Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-mu=
lti-layer-oam/</a><br>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-05</a><br>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi=
-layer-oam</a><br>Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"=
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft=
-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05</a><br><br>Abstract:<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of =
requirements for active Operation, Administration and<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maint=
enance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0presented.=C2=A0 Based on these requirements an encapsulation of active<=
br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize d=
efects<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0described.=C2=A0 Also, this document updates RFC 830=
0 in the definition of<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0O (OAM) bit in the Network Service H=
eader (NSH) and defines how the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0active OAM message identifi=
ed in SFC NSH.<br><br><br><br><br>Please note that it may take a couple of =
minutes from the time of submission<br>until the htmlized version and diff =
are available at<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br><br>The IETF Secre=
tariat<br><br><br></div></div></div>_______________________________________=
________<br>sfc mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo=
/sfc" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a></div>=
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></block=
quote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 23:30:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
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Hi, Greg,

Thanks for the quick response.

I feel that your responses are diverging from addressing the issues I =
brought up.
I also want to ensure there is unpolluted space for others to share =
their thoughts. This draft has shown in the past that silence can be =
very loud, as the interest level seems challenged.

As such, this is my last email on this thread.

Please find some closing comments inline, prefaced with =E2=80=9CCMP: "

> 2020/06/03 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C6:33=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky =
<gregimirsky@gmail.com>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>=20
> Dear Carlos,
> please find my answers and notes below in-line under GIM2>> tag.
>=20
> Regards,
> Greg
>=20
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
<cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
> Dear Greg,
>=20
> A top-level response first:
>=20
>> GIM>> Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational =
Reference and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism =
addresses.
>=20
> This superficial patch does not address my deep and foundational =
concern, expressed initially 2 years ago before =
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam adoption.
>=20
> The idea is to start from the framework=E2=80=99s evaluation to =
understand what is needed based on that gap study, and produce a =
solutions that build on existent =E2=80=94 not work in a vacuum, and =
then add an Informational Reference orthogonally.
>=20

CMP: Greg, you selectively skipped responding to this issue which is a =
critical one, in my humble opinion.

>=20
> ~~~
> As a complete aside, I got curious about the filename of this I-D, =
which has nothing to do with the content.
>=20
> This document went from:
>             Multi-Layering OAM for Service function Chaining
> Abstract
>    This document tries to discuss some problems in SFC OAM framework
>    document and proposes the SFC OAM multi-layering requirements in =
SFC
>    domain to improve the troubleshooting efficiency.
>=20
> To something completely different.
>=20
> It is as if the filename was reused to write 2 or 3 different drafts. =
Looking at diffs, there is not a single sentence that remained from =
earlier versions.
> ~~~
> GIM2>> In the opinion of authors, that is the reflection of the =
evolution of the document. do you see that to be a violation of any IETF =
process?

CMP: I made no inference or judgement =E2=80=94 it was a factual =
comment.
CMP: That said, the =E2=80=9Cviolation of any IETF process=E2=80=9D =
response from you is a straw man argument.
CMP: Since you implicitly ask, seems like a Trojan horse disguising lack =
of value, rather than process violation.

>=20
> Comments inline.
>=20
>> 2020/06/02 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C7:28=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky =
<gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=
=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>>=20
>> Dear Carlos,
>> please find my answers and notes in-line under the GIM>> tag.
>> Please let me know if you have any further questions.
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>=20
>> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
<cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
>> Dear Greg,
>>=20
>>> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Thank you for asking and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s some =
thoughts:
>>=20
>> Hello, WG, Chairs,
>>=20
>> I believe fundamental concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=80=94=
 examples:
>> =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/ =
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/>
>> =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/ =
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/>
>> =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/ =
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/>
>> And since some of those questions were asked during adoption, I=E2=80=99=
d recommend at least un-adopting this document.
>>=20
>> Email threading in one-year-old and two-year-old emails is super hard =
to parse and follow, so some key concerns are:
>> 1. This document describes an OAM solution, but ignores the WG=E2=80=99=
s SFC OAM framework which sits with the IESG.
>> GIM>> Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational =
Reference and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism =
addresses.
>=20
> See above.


CMP: You also did not respond to this. Another example of selectively =
not responding.

CMP: I was happy to engage into a technical and architectural discussion =
to improve the outcomes produced by a WG. That is not possible if you =
selectively skip comments.

>=20
>>=20
>> 2. Existing protocols can already provide solutions without the need =
of inventing a new protocol on paper. See #1 above.
>> GIM>> Could you kindly reference a document that describes how =
existing protocols can be used to troubleshoot SFC NSH? If I look at the =
SFC OAM framework draft I can only find the sub-section about the =
potential use of ICMP that closes with the following:
>>    It could be observed that ICMP at its current stage may not be =
able
>>    to perform all required SFC OAM functions, but as explained above, =
it
>>    can be used for some of the connectivity functions.
>> If ICMP cannot be used, then what other, unnamed in the SFC OAM =
Framework document, existing protocol can be used as SFC NSH Echo =
Request/Reply mechanism?
>>=20
>=20
> What I read in that paragraph is:
> 1. ICMP can as-is solve many (but not ALL) required OAM functions.
> 2. Adding to ICMP is the path of least resistance, it is largely =
there, but needs additions to support ALL OAM functions.
> GIM2>> We appreciate you sharing your ideas but authors decided to =
develop an alternative approach.

CMP: Yes, I know that the authors of this document chose to develop a =
brand new protocol on paper. That is one of my concerns.

> Also, we note that as you've mentioned above, you have made this =
suggestion two years ago. IETF, as we understand, is a =
contribution-driven organization and the fact that in, at least, two =
years no one, including you, produced a document, using the suggested by =
you approach, probably can be interpreted as lack of interest to that =
idea.

CMP: I=E2=80=99m trying to decide which type of fallacy this argument =
falls under =E2=80=94 I think more than one.

CMP: Unfortunately, this direction of discussion does not help advance =
or solve anything.

CMP: Since you attempt to turn this into my intentions, I chose to focus =
on the bigger picture (framework) first, and on the milestones agreed by =
the WG first.

CMP: Let me be clear: no other active OAM contributions do not imply =
this document is useful or sensible.

CMP: As I already mentioned, the framework document shows how ICMP is =
enough for most needs, it can be enhanced, it also shows other existing =
approaches.

>=20
>> 3. There are already documented SFC traceroute implementations but =
this document has no implementation experience. See #2 above.
>> GIM>> As mentioned in the SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP may not fully =
address all the needs of tracing SFP. Is there any other document =
mentioned in the framework that can?
>=20
> Greg,
> 1. Yes, I-D.penno-sfc-trace has the indisputable running code proof.
> GIM2>> It is interesting that you present a draft that was abandoned =
by its authors for more than five years as a possible foundation of a =
specification to facilitate interoperable implementations.

CMP: Greg, I-D.penno-sfc-trace *has* interoperable implementations =
already.

CMP: Since you bring this up, can you please explain to the WG which =
implementations exist of draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam? Please :-)

> Personally, I am not questioning that there are tools to address the =
problem that we are addressing with the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply =
proposal. But these are proprietary tools and, at least so far, none of =
its authors stepped in with a document sufficient to have interoperable =
implementations.

CMP: Do you realize that none of these are valid explanations of why it =
makes sense to start a brand new protocol from scratch without answering =
the comparative to existing?

> 2. Instead of copying MPLS LSP Ping into a brand new protocol, fill in =
the gaps based on existing modules.
> GIM2>> Again, thank you for sharing your suggestions. True, SFC NSH =
shares ideas with the design proven by MPLS LSP.

CMP: "Shares ideas" is an understatement, for the record.

> Our approach is no different from the approach taken by authors, =
including you and me, of draft-ietf-bier-ping =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ping/>.

CMP: Another diversion. Let=E2=80=99s talk about your document in SFC :)
CMP: That said, the approach is hugely different, for multicast vs. =
unicast service path chaining. Is that an oversimplification fallacy?

> As noted earlier, the fact that there's no contribution that uses the =
path you've been advocating for 2+ years may be interpreted as the =
indication that it is not a practical direction.

CMP: Greg, another fallacy. There are many potential reasons.

CMP: If you ask me, frankly, I think the WG does not care enough about =
this topic to begin with =E2=80=94 that is no reason to let any idea in =
paper go through.

>=20
> The point here is implementation experience =E2=80=94 could you answer =
the still unanswered question #1 here?
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/ =
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/>
> GIM2>> I will look into it and respond in a separate mail.

CMP: Thanks. That said, I=E2=80=99m signing off from this thread as the =
ROI of responding does not add up.

Best,

Carlos.

>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> Dear Greg,
>>=20
>> Could you please start responding to previous questions? Apologies in =
advance if I missed any of your responses.
>>=20
>>> Per our analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP =
ping and SFP traceroute.
>>=20
>> Which analysis? Perhaps you could share that analysis?
>> GIM>> Gladly. I was referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As noted in the =
framework draft, ICMP can be used to ping an SFC entity along the SFP if =
the sender knows the IP address of that entity and the number of IP hops =
to that distance (rather impractical but theoretically achievable). But =
can ICMP be used to trace the given SFP without the upfront knowledge of =
IP addresses of SFC entities along the SFP? Based on our analysis, not. =
Assume that the destination IP address is set to the IP address of the =
last SFF (similar to how ICMP traceroute works in IP network) and TTL in =
NSH is set to 1. The first downstream from the sender SFF will remove =
the NSH and forward the ICMP packet to its destination over the IP =
network.
>=20
> NOT.
>=20
> As I had pointed out earlier, there are MANY ways of intercepting a =
packet. Use an IP option or a flag in the NSH.
> GIM2>> I don't argue that the solution described in the draft is the =
only possible. But can you point to a document that describes, =
sufficiently accurately
>=20
> Problems with your logic:
> 1. When you say ICMP you are thinking unmodified ICMP Echo packet. =
Think outside that box.
> GIM2>> Again, thank you for sharing your ideas. Probably some of your =
colleagues will get interested and develop a solution based on them.
> 2. Whatever you use you need to intercept.
> GIM2>> Agree. I believe that the solution described in the draft =
addresses that problem.
>=20
>> Similarly, when NSH' TTL incremented, the second SFF will remove NSH =
and forward ICMP packet to its destination, i.e. the last SFF. As a =
result, all ICMP echo replies the sender will receive will be from the =
same SFF, from the last SFF in the given SFP. Clearly, that is not what =
a traceroute tool should produce.
>>=20
>>> Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the ping =
function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.
>>=20
>> What exactly did you need to add to have that functionality as =
opposed to your consideration of ICMP?
>> GIM>> A dedicated to SFC NSH OAM protocol type.
>>=20
>=20
> Incorrect again. There is no technical need to add an SFC NSH OAM =
protocol type. There are many ways of marking a pak as OAM and =
demultiplexing the protocol.
> GIM2>> We, the authors, are not claiming that the proposed solution is =
the only one possible. We've analyzed options and decided to develop =
this approach. Others can decide differently and present their work as a =
draft.
>=20
> I do understand you have a solution in mind.
> GIM2>> Indeed, it is documented in the draft being discussed. Also, =
there are several individual SFC OAM drafts that use SFC NSH Echo =
Request/Reply mechanism.
>=20
> Carlos.
>=20
>> Thanks!
>>=20
>> Carlos.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> 2020/05/20 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky =
<gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=
=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>>>=20
>>> Dear All,
>>> this version includes a minor update to the Security Considerations =
section.
>>> We, the authors, believe that the draft is ready for the WG LC. It =
defines an essential function of SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per =
our analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and =
SFP traceroute. Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the =
ping function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing =
tool.
>>> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>>>=20
>>> Dear Jim and Joel,
>>> please kindly consider the WG LC for this draft.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>> Greg
>>>=20
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>
>>> Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM
>>> Subject: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
>>> To: Bhumip Khasnabish <vumip1@gmail.com <mailto:vumip1@gmail.com>>, =
Cui(Linda) Wang <lindawangjoy@gmail.com =
<mailto:lindawangjoy@gmail.com>>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com =
<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>, Wei Meng <meng.wei2@zte.com.cn =
<mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn>>
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
>>> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
>>> IETF repository.
>>>=20
>>> Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
>>> Revision:       05
>>> Title:          Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks
>>> Document date:  2020-05-20
>>> Group:          sfc
>>> Pages:          18
>>> URL:            =
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt=
 =
<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.tx=
t>
>>> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/>
>>> Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05>
>>> Htmlized:       =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam>
>>> Diff:           =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05 =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05>
>>>=20
>>> Abstract:
>>>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and
>>>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks =
is
>>>    presented.  Based on these requirements an encapsulation of =
active
>>>    OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects
>>>    described.  Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the =
definition of
>>>    O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how =
the
>>>    active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org =
<http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>>>=20
>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sfc mailing list
>>> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi, =
Greg,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks for the =
quick response.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I feel that your responses are diverging from addressing the =
issues I brought up.</div><div class=3D"">I also want to ensure there is =
unpolluted space for others to share their thoughts. This draft has =
shown&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">in the past</span>&nbsp;that silence can be very loud, =
as the interest level seems challenged.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As such, this is my last email on this =
thread.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Please =
find some closing comments inline, prefaced with =E2=80=9CCMP: "<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">2020/06/03 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C6:33=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB=
:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Dear =
Carlos,<br class=3D""><div class=3D"">please find my answers and notes =
below in-line under GIM2&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regards,</div><div =
class=3D"">Greg</div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Carlos =
Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D"">Dear Greg,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A top-level response first:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; Will add the SFC OAM framework document as =
Informational Reference and clarify which functionality the proposed =
mechanism addresses.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"">This =
superficial patch does not address my deep and foundational concern, =
expressed initially 2 years ago before =
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam&nbsp;adoption.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The idea is to start from the =
framework=E2=80=99s evaluation to understand what is needed based on =
that gap study, and produce a solutions that build on existent =E2=80=94 =
not work in a vacuum, and then add an Informational Reference =
orthogonally.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><b=
r class=3D""></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: Greg, you selectively skipped responding =
to this issue which is a critical one, in my humble =
opinion.</span></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">~~~</div><div class=3D"">As a complete aside, I got curious =
about the filename of this I-D, which has nothing to do with the =
content.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This =
document went from:</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Multi-Layering OAM for Service function =
Chaining</div><div class=3D"">Abstract</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;This document tries to discuss some problems in SFC OAM =
framework</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;document and proposes the =
SFC OAM multi-layering requirements in SFC</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;domain to improve the troubleshooting efficiency.</div><br =
class=3D"">To something completely different.&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It is as if the filename =
was reused to write 2 or 3 different drafts. Looking at diffs, there is =
not a single sentence that remained from earlier versions.</div><div =
class=3D"">~~~</div></div></blockquote><div class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; In =
the opinion of authors, that is the reflection of the evolution of the =
document. do you see that to be a violation of any IETF =
process?&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: I made no inference =
or judgement&nbsp;=E2=80=94 it was a factual =
comment.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">CMP: =
That said, the&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cviolation of any IETF =
process=E2=80=9D&nbsp;response from you is a&nbsp;straw man =
argument.&nbsp;</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">CMP: =
Since you&nbsp;implicitly ask, seems like a&nbsp;Trojan horse disguising =
lack of value, rather than process violation.</font></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Comments inline.<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">2020/06/02=
 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C7:28=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB=
:</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex=
t-decoration:none" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Dear =
Carlos,<br class=3D""><div class=3D"">please find my answers and notes =
in-line under the GIM&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div class=3D"">Please let me =
know if you have any further questions.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regards,</div><div =
class=3D"">Greg</div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos =
Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Dear =
Greg,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">We much appreciate your comments and =
questions.</div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thank =
you for asking and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s some =
thoughts:</div></div></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hello, =
WG, Chairs,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
believe fundamental concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=80=94 =
examples:</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvN=
teQ/" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLq=
KvNteQ/</a></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBr=
hsc/" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oi=
fBrhsc/</a></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_p=
DOs/" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9W=
v_pDOs/</a></div><div class=3D"">And since some of those questions were =
asked during adoption, I=E2=80=99d recommend at least un-adopting this =
document.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Email =
threading in one-year-old and two-year-old emails is super hard to parse =
and follow, so some key concerns are:</div><div class=3D"">1. This =
document describes an OAM solution, but ignores the WG=E2=80=99s SFC OAM =
framework which sits with the IESG.</div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; Will add the SFC OAM framework document as =
Informational Reference and clarify which functionality the proposed =
mechanism addresses.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>See =
above.</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><=
br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: You also did =
not&nbsp;</span><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">respond to this. Another =
example of selectively not responding.</span></font></div><div><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font></div><div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: =
I was happy to engage into a&nbsp;</span><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D"">technical and architectural discussion to improve the =
outcomes&nbsp;produced by a WG. That is not possible if you selectively =
skip comments.</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex=
t-decoration:none" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">2. Existing =
protocols can already provide solutions without the need of inventing a =
new protocol on paper. See #1 above.</div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; Could you kindly reference a document that =
describes how existing protocols can be used to troubleshoot SFC NSH? If =
I look at the SFC OAM framework draft I can only find the sub-section =
about the potential use of ICMP that closes with the =
following:</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;It could be observed that =
ICMP at its current stage may not be able<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;to =
perform all required SFC OAM functions, but as explained above, it<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;can be used for some of the connectivity =
functions.<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If ICMP cannot be used, =
then what other, unnamed in the SFC OAM Framework document, existing =
protocol can be used as SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply mechanism?</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">What I read in that paragraph =
is:</div><div class=3D"">1. ICMP can as-is solve many (but not ALL) =
required OAM functions.</div><div class=3D"">2. Adding to ICMP is the =
path of least resistance, it is largely there, but needs additions to =
support ALL OAM functions.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; We appreciate you sharing your ideas but authors =
decided to develop an alternative =
approach.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: Yes, I know that =
the authors of this document chose to&nbsp;develop a brand new protocol =
on paper. That is one of my concerns.</span></font></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""> =
Also, we note that as you've mentioned above, you have made this =
suggestion two years ago. IETF, as we understand, is a =
contribution-driven organization and the fact that in, at least, two =
years no one, including you, produced a document, using the suggested by =
you approach, probably can be interpreted&nbsp;as lack of interest to =
that idea.&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">CMP: I=E2=80=99m =
trying to decide which type of fallacy this argument falls =
under&nbsp;=E2=80=94 I think more than one.</font></div><div><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: =
Unfortunately, this direction of discussion does not help advance or =
solve anything.</span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">CMP: =
Since you attempt to turn this into my intentions, I chose to focus on =
the bigger picture (framework) first, and on&nbsp;the milestones agreed =
by the WG first.&nbsp;</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: Let me be clear: no =
other active OAM contributions do not imply this document is useful or =
sensible.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: As I&nbsp;already =
mentioned, the framework document shows how ICMP is enough for most =
needs, it can be enhanced, it also shows other existing =
approaches.</span></font></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex=
t-decoration:none" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">3. There are already documented SFC =
traceroute implementations but this document has no implementation =
experience. See #2 above.</div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; As mentioned in the SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP =
may not fully address all the needs of tracing SFP. Is there any other =
document mentioned in the framework that =
can?&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Greg,</div><div class=3D"">1. =
Yes,&nbsp;I-D.penno-sfc-trace has the indisputable running code =
proof.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; =
It is interesting that you present a draft that was abandoned by its =
authors for more than five years as a possible foundation of a =
specification to facilitate interoperable implementations. =
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: =
Greg,&nbsp;</span>I-D.penno-sfc-trace *has* interoperable =
implementations already.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>CMP: Since =
you bring this up, can you please explain to the WG which =
implementations exist of&nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam? Please =
:-)&nbsp;</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D"">Personally, I am not questioning that there are tools to =
address the problem that we are addressing with the SFC NSH Echo =
Request/Reply proposal. But these are proprietary tools and, at least so =
far, none of its authors stepped in with a document sufficient to have =
interoperable =
implementations.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: Do you realize that =
none of these are valid explanations of why it makes sense to start a =
brand new protocol from scratch without answering the comparative =
to&nbsp;existing?</span></font></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">2.=
 Instead of copying MPLS LSP Ping into a brand new protocol, fill in the =
gaps based on existing modules.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; Again, thank you for sharing your suggestions. =
True, SFC NSH shares ideas with the design proven by MPLS LSP. =
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: =
"Shares ideas" is an understatement, for the record.</span></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">Our =
approach is no different from the approach taken by authors, including =
you and me, of <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ping/" =
class=3D"">draft-ietf-bier-ping</a>. =
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D"">CMP:&nbsp;Another diversion. Let=E2=80=99s =
talk about your document in SFC :)&nbsp;</font></div><div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: =
That said, the approach is hugely different, for multicast vs. unicast =
service path chaining. Is that an oversimplification&nbsp;</span><font =
color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">fallacy?</span></font></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">As noted earlier, the fact that =
there's no contribution that uses the path you've been advocating for 2+ =
years may be interpreted as the indication that it is not a practical =
direction.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: Greg, another fallacy. There are many =
potential reasons.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: If you ask me, frankly, I think =
the WG does not care enough about this&nbsp;</span><font color=3D"#000000"=
 class=3D"">topic to&nbsp;begin with&nbsp;=E2=80=94 that is no reason to =
let any idea in paper go&nbsp;through.&nbsp;</font></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The point here is =
implementation experience =E2=80=94 could you answer the still =
unanswered question #1 here?</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvN=
teQ/" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLq=
KvNteQ/</a></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; I will look into it and respond in a separate =
mail.&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">CMP: Thanks. That said, =
I=E2=80=99m signing off from this thread as the ROI of responding does =
not add up.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">Best,</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">Carlos.&nbsp;</span></font></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex=
t-decoration:none" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Dear =
Greg,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Could =
you please start responding to previous questions? Apologies in advance =
if I missed any of your responses.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Per our analysis, =
existing&nbsp;OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP =
traceroute.<span class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Which analysis? Perhaps =
you could share that analysis?</div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; Gladly. I was referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As =
noted in the framework draft, ICMP can be used to ping an SFC entity =
along the SFP if the sender knows the IP address of that entity and the =
number of IP hops to that distance (rather impractical but theoretically =
achievable). But can ICMP be used to trace the given SFP without the =
upfront knowledge of IP addresses of SFC entities along the SFP? Based =
on our analysis, not. Assume that the destination IP address is set to =
the IP address of the last SFF (similar to how ICMP traceroute works in =
IP network) and TTL in NSH is set to 1. The first downstream from the =
sender SFF will remove the NSH&nbsp;and forward the ICMP packet to its =
destination over the IP =
network.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">NOT.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As I had pointed out earlier, there are =
MANY ways of intercepting a packet. Use an IP option or a flag in the =
NSH.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; I =
don't argue that the solution described in the draft is the only =
possible. But can you point to a document that describes, sufficiently =
accurately&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Problems with your =
logic:</div><div class=3D"">1. When you say ICMP you are thinking =
unmodified ICMP Echo packet. Think outside that =
box.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; =
Again, thank you for sharing your ideas. Probably some of your =
colleagues will get interested and develop a solution based on =
them.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">2. Whatever you use you need to =
intercept.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; Agree. I believe that the solution described in =
the draft addresses that problem.&nbsp;</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex=
t-decoration:none" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""> =
Similarly, when NSH' TTL incremented, the second SFF will remove NSH and =
forward ICMP packet to its destination, i.e. the last SFF. As a result, =
all ICMP echo replies the sender will receive will be from the same SFF, =
from the last SFF in the given SFP. Clearly, that is not what a =
traceroute tool should produce.</div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Consider ICMP. When encapsulated&nbsp;in NSH, =
it supports the ping function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as =
an SFP tracing tool.</div></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">What exactly did you need to add to have that functionality =
as opposed to your consideration of ICMP?</div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; A dedicated to SFC NSH OAM protocol =
type.&nbsp;</div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Incorrect again. There =
is no technical need to add an SFC NSH OAM protocol type. There are many =
ways of marking a pak as OAM and demultiplexing the =
protocol.&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; We, the authors, are not claiming that the =
proposed solution is the only one possible. We've analyzed&nbsp;options =
and decided to develop this approach. Others can decide differently and =
present their work as a draft.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I do understand you have =
a solution in mind.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D"">GIM2&gt;&gt; Indeed, it is documented in the draft being =
discussed. Also, there are several individual SFC OAM drafts that use =
SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply mechanism.</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Carlos.</div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex=
t-decoration:none" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Thanks!</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Carlos.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">2020/05/20 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=81Greg=
 Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB=
:</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Dear =
All,<div class=3D"">this version includes a minor update to the Security =
Considerations section.</div><div class=3D"">We, the authors, believe =
that the draft is ready for the WG LC. It defines an essential function =
of SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per our analysis, existing&nbsp;OAM =
mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP traceroute. Consider =
ICMP. When encapsulated&nbsp;in NSH, it supports the ping function but, =
per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.</div><div =
class=3D"">We much appreciate your comments and questions.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Dear Jim and =
Joel,</div><div class=3D"">please kindly consider the WG LC for this =
draft.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Greg</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br =
class=3D"">From:<span class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br =
class=3D"">Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM<br class=3D"">Subject: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br =
class=3D"">To: Bhumip Khasnabish &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vumip1@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">vumip1@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Cui(Linda) Wang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lindawangjoy@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">lindawangjoy@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Wei Meng &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">meng.wei2@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">A new version of I-D, =
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br class=3D"">has been =
successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br class=3D"">IETF=
 repository.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Name:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam<br =
class=3D"">Revision:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;05<br =
class=3D"">Title:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Active OAM for =
Service Function Chains in Networks<br class=3D"">Document date:&nbsp; =
2020-05-20<br class=3D"">Group:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; sfc<br =
class=3D"">Pages:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18<br =
class=3D"">URL:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oa=
m-05.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer=
-oam-05.txt</a><br class=3D"">Status:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam=
/</a><br class=3D"">Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05</=
a><br class=3D"">Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-laye=
r-oam</a><br class=3D"">Diff:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam=
-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-=
oam-05</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Abstract:<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains =
(SFCs) in networks is<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;presented.&nbsp; Based =
on these requirements an encapsulation of active<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize =
defects<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;described.&nbsp; Also, this document =
updates RFC 8300 in the definition of<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;O (OAM) =
bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
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Subject: Re: [sfc] SFC Security
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Hi Joel and WG,
I agree with others that this is an excellent start to deal with SCF/NSH se=
curity and see many improvements in recent updates. I would suggest we shou=
ld move it to WG draft status=20
... if that was the question ;-)
Thanks to the authors!
Kind regards
Dirk

-----Original Message-----
From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
Sent: Mittwoch, 27. Mai 2020 17:36
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] SFC Security

We as a working group hava milestone which the IESG felt was important, and=
 which we agreed to work on, to provide security mechanisms for NSH.

We have one individual draft that suggests such mechansims:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/

Do folks think this is a good start?  A bad start?

For those folks who would like to be working on other things, the chairs no=
te that we are very reluctant to engage in new work items until we can prov=
e we can complete out commitments.

Yours,
Joel

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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From: Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 21:53:34 +0900
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To: "<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
Cc: jmh@joelhalpern.com, sfc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [sfc] SFC Security
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Hi,

I reviewed the draft, and I also think it is good start to consider SFC/NSH
security. I'd like to support the work.

BTW, I have a small question about flavor 1 and 2. What is merit to encrypt
base header? Base header doesn't contain any privacy information, and there
are no effect on SFP if it is falsified.

Best regards,

Shunsuke


On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 6:35 PM <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote:

> Hi Joel and WG,
> I agree with others that this is an excellent start to deal with SCF/NSH
> security and see many improvements in recent updates. I would suggest we
> should move it to WG draft status
> .... if that was the question ;-)
> Thanks to the authors!
> Kind regards
> Dirk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
> Sent: Mittwoch, 27. Mai 2020 17:36
> To: sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: [sfc] SFC Security
>
> We as a working group hava milestone which the IESG felt was important,
> and which we agreed to work on, to provide security mechanisms for NSH.
>
> We have one individual draft that suggests such mechansims:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/
>
> Do folks think this is a good start?  A bad start?
>
> For those folks who would like to be working on other things, the chairs
> note that we are very reluctant to engage in new work items until we can
> prove we can complete out commitments.
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<br><br>I reviewed the draft, and I also think it is go=
od start to consider SFC/NSH security. I&#39;d like to support the work.<br=
><br>BTW, I have a small question about flavor 1 and 2. What is merit to en=
crypt base header? Base header doesn&#39;t contain any privacy information,=
 and there are no effect on SFP if it is falsified.<br><div><br></div><div>=
Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Shunsuke</div><div><br></div></div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu,=
 Jun 4, 2020 at 6:35 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de">Dir=
k.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">Hi Joel and WG,<br>
I agree with others that this is an excellent start to deal with SCF/NSH se=
curity and see many improvements in recent updates. I would suggest we shou=
ld move it to WG draft status <br>
.... if that was the question ;-)<br>
Thanks to the authors!<br>
Kind regards<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc=
-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern<br>
Sent: Mittwoch, 27. Mai 2020 17:36<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: [sfc] SFC Security<br>
<br>
We as a working group hava milestone which the IESG felt was important, and=
 which we agreed to work on, to provide security mechanisms for NSH.<br>
<br>
We have one individual draft that suggests such mechansims:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</a><br>
<br>
Do folks think this is a good start?=C2=A0 A bad start?<br>
<br>
For those folks who would like to be working on other things, the chairs no=
te that we are very reluctant to engage in new work items until we can prov=
e we can complete out commitments.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: "Diego R. Lopez" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>, "<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>, "<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] SFC Security
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Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 14:21:56 +0000
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Subject: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Dear WG:

Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with respec=
t to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/<https:/=
/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.gui=
chard%40futurewei.com%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
9c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268773297941987&sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZ=
lES3YAHcohOhf9oS8Np%2BsE%3D&reserved=3D0>.

We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18=
th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adop=
tion of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs gauge c=
onsensus.

Thank You!

Jim & Joel




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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for those that responded to the chairs pre=
vious email with respect to
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-reb=
o-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.co=
m%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1=
%7C0%7C637268773297941987&amp;sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS=
8Np%2BsE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:blue">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</span></a>.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">We would like to st=
art an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18<sup>th</sup> June =
2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adoption of =
this document into the WG, with comments
 to help the chairs gauge consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thank You!<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Jim &amp; Joel</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Thu Jun  4 08:00:56 2020
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Subject: [sfc] The SFC WG has placed draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued"
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The SFC WG has placed draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity in state
Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Joel Halpern)

The document is available at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/



From nobody Thu Jun  4 08:18:09 2020
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From: "Diego R. Lopez" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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From: "Diego R. Lopez" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>, "<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] SFC Security
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Subject: Re: [sfc] SFC Security
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From nobody Thu Jun  4 08:42:10 2020
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
CC: "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org" <draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 15:42:02 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Hi Jim, all,

I support.

Cheers,
Med

De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James Guichard
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Cc : sfc-chairs@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity

Dear WG:

Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with respec=
t to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/<https:/=
/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.gui=
chard%40futurewei.com%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
9c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268773297941987&sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZ=
lES3YAHcohOhf9oS8Np%2BsE%3D&reserved=3D0>.

We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18=
th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adop=
tion of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs gauge c=
onsensus.

Thank You!

Jim & Joel




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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D">Hi Jim, all,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D">I support.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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4.0pt">
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0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>De la part de</b> James Guichard<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> sfc-chairs@ietf.org<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for those that responded to the chairs pre=
vious email with respect to
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-reb=
o-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.co=
m%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1=
%7C0%7C637268773297941987&amp;sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS=
8Np%2BsE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:blue">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</span></a>.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">We would like to st=
art an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18<sup>th</sup> June =
2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adoption of =
this document into the WG, with comments
 to help the chairs gauge consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thank You!<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Jim &amp; Joel</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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From nobody Thu Jun  4 08:45:14 2020
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Diego R. Lopez" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>, Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>, "<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
CC: "jmh@joelhalpern.com" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] SFC Security
Thread-Index: AQHWNDyidYdIRXesZE2p3BoAuJreA6jIPkQAgAA3kgCAABixAIAAMfAA///keSA=
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 15:45:03 +0000
Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330314D826F@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
References: <9c712682-75ee-f6ea-3355-af2271fc0d75@joelhalpern.com> <LEXPR01MB0749EAB531664BA6BC1E5C6AD1890@LEXPR01MB0749.DEUPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.DE> <CAGU6MPeQJk_AdmBTW_jQcbo3X=XOTUeYbyVYqFbjGYSV8wP70w@mail.gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330314D80E6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <C2AEF964-2D38-42F3-A9AE-D0E5D1A38C7B@telefonica.com>
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From: Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:30:25 +0900
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: "<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>, "jmh@joelhalpern.com" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] SFC Security
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Hi, Med.

Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding.

Yes, such attacks are possible. Then, I wonder how  large risks they have.
In my view, such attacks may cause irregular packet drops, but such risk is
too small compared with leak of metadata including privacy info or DOS
attacks to specific SFs by falsifying of SFP and SI.

Of course, flavor 2 would be better if its implementation and operation
costs are almost the same with flavor 1.  I hope it is clarified that the
pros/cons of each flavor and their applicable ranges if you provide two
options.

Best regards,

Shunsuke

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 11:21 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Shunsuke,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the comment.
>
>
>
> Actually, we don=E2=80=99t encrypt the base header for all flavors.
>
>
>
> Some attacks are theoretically possible with a manipulation of the base
> header (set the version, decrement the TTL). Flavor 2 allows to detect su=
ch
> manipulations.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* Shunsuke Homma
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* jeudi 4 juin 2020 14:54
> *=C3=80 :* <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
> *Cc :* jmh@joelhalpern.com; sfc@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] SFC Security
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I reviewed the draft, and I also think it is good start to consider
> SFC/NSH security. I'd like to support the work.
>
> BTW, I have a small question about flavor 1 and 2. What is merit to
> encrypt base header? Base header doesn't contain any privacy information,
> and there are no effect on SFP if it is falsified.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Shunsuke
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 6:35 PM <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Joel and WG,
> I agree with others that this is an excellent start to deal with SCF/NSH
> security and see many improvements in recent updates. I would suggest we
> should move it to WG draft status
> ..... if that was the question ;-)
> Thanks to the authors!
> Kind regards
> Dirk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
> Sent: Mittwoch, 27. Mai 2020 17:36
> To: sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: [sfc] SFC Security
>
> We as a working group hava milestone which the IESG felt was important,
> and which we agreed to work on, to provide security mechanisms for NSH.
>
> We have one individual draft that suggests such mechansims:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/
>
> Do folks think this is a good start?  A bad start?
>
> For those folks who would like to be working on other things, the chairs
> note that we are very reluctant to engage in new work items until we can
> prove we can complete out commitments.
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>

--00000000000048c5ec05a74c355c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi, Med.<br><br>Thank you for correcting =
my misunderstanding. <br><br>Yes, such attacks are possible. Then, I wonder=
 how =C2=A0large risks they have. In my view, such attacks may cause irregu=
lar packet drops, but such risk is too small compared with leak of metadata=
 including privacy info or DOS attacks to specific SFs by falsifying of SFP=
 and SI. <br><br>Of course, flavor 2 would be better if its implementation =
and operation costs are almost the same with flavor 1.=C2=A0 I hope it is c=
larified that the pros/cons of each flavor and their applicable ranges if y=
ou provide two options.<br><br>Best regards,<br><br>Shunsuke<br></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun=
 4, 2020 at 11:21 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mo=
hamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-5266661431158510610WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Shunsuke,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thank you for the comment.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Actually, we don=E2=80=99t encrypt the =
base header for all flavors.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Some attacks are theoretically possible=
 with a manipulation of the base header (set the version, decrement the TTL=
). Flavor 2 allows to detect such manipulations. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma,sans-serif">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font=
-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> sfc [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sf=
c-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Shunsuke Homma<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> jeudi 4 juin 2020 14:54<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" target=
=3D"_blank">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">j=
mh@joelhalpern.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] SFC Security<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
I reviewed the draft, and I also think it is good start to consider SFC/NSH=
 security. I&#39;d like to support the work.<br>
<br>
BTW, I have a small question about flavor 1 and 2. What is merit to encrypt=
 base header? Base header doesn&#39;t contain any privacy information, and =
there are no effect on SFP if it is falsified.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shunsuke<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 6:35 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" target=3D"_blank">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&g=
t; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Joel and WG,<br>
I agree with others that this is an excellent start to deal with SCF/NSH se=
curity and see many improvements in recent updates. I would suggest we shou=
ld move it to WG draft status
<br>
..... if that was the question ;-)<br>
Thanks to the authors!<br>
Kind regards<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc=
-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern<br>
Sent: Mittwoch, 27. Mai 2020 17:36<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: [sfc] SFC Security<br>
<br>
We as a working group hava milestone which the IESG felt was important, and=
 which we agreed to work on, to provide security mechanisms for NSH.<br>
<br>
We have one individual draft that suggests such mechansims:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/" =
target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integ=
rity/</a><br>
<br>
Do folks think this is a good start?=C2=A0 A bad start?<br>
<br>
For those folks who would like to be working on other things, the chairs no=
te that we are very reluctant to engage in new work items until we can prov=
e we can complete out commitments.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

--00000000000048c5ec05a74c355c--


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From: Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:32:20 +0900
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org" <draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org>,  "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Hi Jim, all,

The document is useful and I support the WG adoption.

Best regards,

Shunsuke

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 12:42 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Jim, all,
>
>
>
> I support.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* James Guichard
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35
> *=C3=80 :* sfc@ietf.org
> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Objet :* [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
>
>
>
> Dear WG:
>
>
>
> Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with
> respect to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cj=
ames.n.guichard%40futurewei.com%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268773297941987&sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDR=
gSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS8Np%2BsE%3D&reserved=3D0>.
>
>
>
>
> We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, =
18
> th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for
> adoption of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs
> gauge consensus.
>
>
>
> Thank You!
>
>
>
> Jim & Joel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

--000000000000209e5e05a74c3c53
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jim, all,<div><br></div><div>The document is useful and=
 I support the=C2=A0WG adoption.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Shunsuke</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 12:42 AM &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Jim, all,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125)">I support.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125)">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma,sans-serif">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font=
-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> sfc [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sf=
c-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> James Guichard<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@=
ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for those that responded to the chairs pre=
vious email with respect to
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protectio=
n.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-=
sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.com%=
7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7=
C0%7C637268773297941987&amp;sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS8N=
p%2BsE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:blue">ht=
tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</span></a>.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">We would like to star=
t an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18<sup>th</sup> June 20=
20. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adoption of th=
is document into the WG, with comments
 to help the chairs gauge consensus.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Thank You!<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Jim &amp; Joel</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000209e5e05a74c3c53--


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From: <christian.jacquenet@orange.com>
To: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
CC: "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 08:26:11 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Hello WG,

I support the adoption of draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity as a WG document.

Cheers,

Christian.

De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James Guichard
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Cc : sfc-chairs@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity

Dear WG:

Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with respec=
t to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/<https:/=
/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.gui=
chard%40futurewei.com%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
9c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268773297941987&sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZ=
lES3YAHcohOhf9oS8Np%2BsE%3D&reserved=3D0>.

We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18=
th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adop=
tion of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs gauge c=
onsensus.

Thank You!

Jim & Joel




___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Hello WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">I support the adoption of draft-rebo-sfc-nsh=
-integrity as a WG document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Christian.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>De la part de</b> James Guichard<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> sfc-chairs@ietf.org<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for those that responded to the chairs pre=
vious email with respect to
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-reb=
o-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.co=
m%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1=
%7C0%7C637268773297941987&amp;sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS=
8Np%2BsE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:blue">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</span></a>.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">We would like to st=
art an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18<sup>th</sup> June =
2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adoption of =
this document into the WG, with comments
 to help the chairs gauge consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thank You!<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Jim &amp; Joel</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

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From: <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
To: <christian.jacquenet@orange.com>, <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, <sfc@ietf.org>
CC: <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/cpC-Vbkc2aNX6i2eIbpL3DTqQgM>
Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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+1
;-)
Kind regards
Dirk

From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of christian.jacquenet@orange.co=
m
Sent: Freitag, 5. Juni 2020 10:26
To: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Cc: sfc-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity

Hello WG,

I support the adoption of draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity as a WG document.

Cheers,

Christian.

De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James Guichard
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Cc : sfc-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
Objet : [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity

Dear WG:

Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with respec=
t to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/<https:/=
/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.gui=
chard%40futurewei.com%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
9c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268773297941987&sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZ=
lES3YAHcohOhf9oS8Np%2BsE%3D&reserved=3D0>.

We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18=
th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adop=
tion of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs gauge c=
onsensus.

Thank You!

Jim & Joel




___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">&#43;1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Kind regards<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Dirk<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> sfc &lt;sfc-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>christian.jacquenet@orange.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 5. Juni 2020 10:26<br>
<b>To:</b> James Guichard &lt;james.n.guichard@futurewei.com&gt;; sfc@ietf.=
org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sfc-chairs@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Hello WG,</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">I support the adoption of dra=
ft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity as a WG document.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Cheers,</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Christian.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span lang=3D"FR"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc =
[<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> James Guichard<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org">sfc-chairs@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you for those that respon=
ded to the chairs previous email with respect to
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><a href=3D"https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.g=
uichard%40futurewei.com%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b240=
189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268773297941987&amp;sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwY=
a3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS8Np%2BsE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span=
 style=3D"color:blue">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-i=
ntegrity/</span></a>.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&nbs=
p;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">We w=
ould like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18<sup=
>th</sup> June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) f=
or adoption of this document into the
 WG, with comments to help the chairs gauge consensus.</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&nbs=
p;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Than=
k You!</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&nbs=
p;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Jim =
&amp; Joel</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">_________________________________________________=
________________________________________________________________________<o:=
p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir=
 des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></=
o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autor=
isation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les piece=
s jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message=
 a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">This message and its attachments may contain conf=
idential or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p>=
</span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">they should not be distributed, used or copied wi=
thout authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you have received this email in error, please =
notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></=
span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable fo=
r messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
CC: "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org" <draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/pkLyc3OXQqekPXxrcGozJIEhLlw>
Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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I support adoption of the draft.

-Tiru

From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 9:12 PM
To: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Cc: sfc-chairs@ietf.org; draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org
Subject: RE: WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity


CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you =
recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

________________________________
Hi Jim, all,

I support.

Cheers,
Med

De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James Guichard
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Cc : sfc-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
Objet : [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity

Dear WG:

Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with respec=
t to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/<https:/=
/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.gui=
chard%40futurewei.com%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
9c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268773297941987&sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZ=
lES3YAHcohOhf9oS8Np%2BsE%3D&reserved=3D0>.

We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18=
th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adop=
tion of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs gauge c=
onsensus.

Thank You!

Jim & Joel




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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I support adoption of the draft.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-Tiru<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mohamed.boucadair@orange.com &lt;mohame=
d.boucadair@orange.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 4, 2020 9:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Guichard &lt;james.n.guichard@futurewei.com&gt;; sfc@ietf.=
org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sfc-chairs@ietf.org; draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"1" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"bac=
kground:#F3FF33;border:solid #9B9A87 1.5pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border:none;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#9=
B8B3E">CAUTION</span></strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#9B8B3E">:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,sans-serif;color:black"> External email. Do not click links or open
 attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<=
/span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D">Hi Jim, all,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D">I support.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span lang=3D"FR"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc =
[<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> James Guichard<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> jeudi 4 juin 2020 16:35<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org">sfc-chairs@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for those that responded to the chairs pre=
vious email with respect to
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-reb=
o-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.co=
m%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1=
%7C0%7C637268773297941987&amp;sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS=
8Np%2BsE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:blue">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</span></a>.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">We would like to st=
art an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18<sup>th</sup> June =
2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adoption of =
this document into the WG, with comments
 to help the chairs gauge consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thank You!<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Jim &amp; Joel</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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From: "Diego R. Lopez" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>, "<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
CC: "jmh@joelhalpern.com" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] SFC Security
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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:16:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] SFC Security
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>
CC: "jmh@joelhalpern.com" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org" <draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] SFC Security
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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 08:48:40 +0000
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 17:26:23 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmV8zG-sHAX_0LQcTxHkdeBmYAQ5rM=3vEJ663+uSYJb4A@mail.gmail.com>
To: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>
Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/xD7sRjf0G2R1mAHLZJekuvgcKj8>
Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Hi Jim and Joel,
I've read the draft It is an excellent document that addresses one of the
essential SFC NSH elements - data integrity and security. I support the
adoption of the draft by the WG.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 7:35 AM James Guichard <
james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:

> Dear WG:
>
>
>
> Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with
> respect to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cj=
ames.n.guichard%40futurewei.com%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268773297941987&sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDR=
gSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS8Np%2BsE%3D&reserved=3D0>.
>
>
>
>
> We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, =
18
> th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for
> adoption of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs
> gauge consensus.
>
>
>
> Thank You!
>
>
>
> Jim & Joel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

--00000000000099234e05a79bc775
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jim and Joel,<div>I&#39;ve read the draft It is an exce=
llent document that addresses one of the essential SFC NSH elements - data =
integrity and security. I support the adoption of the draft by the WG.</div=
><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 7:=
35 AM James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com">=
james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for those that responded to the chairs pre=
vious email with respect to
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protectio=
n.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-=
sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.com%=
7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7=
C0%7C637268773297941987&amp;sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS8N=
p%2BsE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:blue">ht=
tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</span></a>.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">We would like to star=
t an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18<sup>th</sup> June 20=
20. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adoption of th=
is document into the WG, with comments
 to help the chairs gauge consensus.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Thank You!<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Jim &amp; Joel</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--00000000000099234e05a79bc775--


From nobody Wed Jun 10 17:43:27 2020
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To: "lisp@ietf.org" <lisp@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
From: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: [sfc] Fwd: Fwd: Nomcom 2020-2021 Second Call For Volunteers
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Barbara, our Nomcom chairs, ha sensibly asked chairs to forward this to 
our working groups.

Please volunteer to serve on Nomcom if you are eligible and can make the 
time.  if you are eligible, please try to make the time.

Thank you,
Joel


Begin forwarded message:

> *From:* NomCom Chair 2020 <nomcom-chair-2020@ietf.org>
> *Date:* June 10, 2020 at 1:55:21 PM CDT
> *To:* IETF Announcement List <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* *Nomcom 2020-2021 Second Call For Volunteers*
>
> ﻿This is the second sending of the call for volunteers for the 
> 2020-2021 NomCom.
>
> I wanted to mention a few updates from the previous email (sent 2 
> weeks ago):
> - I've fixed the URL at the bottom of the email to point to 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_nomcom_2020_&d=DwIDaQ&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=LoGzhC-8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=ZsNIRqCxjDeOYYDNalOSHcuwQG23wBJtxzmEnsbPBtI&s=NgIu-7Ij0nEdsFcbJOLcl2M56RxyREhLAtcaHLatD34&e= 
>  instead of /2019/. This was a test to see if anyone was paying 
> attention. Apparently, some people were. ;)
> - The IETF 108 registration form includes a checkbox that will let you 
> volunteer. You can use this instead of emailing me, when you register 
> for IETF 108.
> - I currently have 39 volunteers. Last year had 149. I need more 
> volunteers!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The IETF NomCom appoints people to fill the open slots on the LLC, 
> IETF Trust, the IAB, and the IESG.
>
> Ten voting members for the NomCom are selected in a verifiably random 
> way from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance 
> we have of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the 
> IETF population.
>
> The details of the operation of the NomCom can be found in BCP 10 (RFC 
> 8713). RFC 3797 details the selection algorithm.
>
> Special for this year (and only this year), we also have RFC 8788 
> (one-off update to RFC 8713 / BCP 10) to tell us who is eligible to 
> volunteer:
>
>      Members of the IETF community must have attended at least three of
>      the last five in-person IETF meetings in order to volunteer.
>
>      The five meetings are the five most recent in-person meetings that
>      ended prior to the date on which the solicitation for NomCom
>      volunteers was submitted for distribution to the IETF community.
>      Because no IETF 107 in-person meeting was held, for the 2020-2021
>      Nominating Committee those five meetings are IETFs
>        102 [Montreal, Canada; July 2018],
>        103 [Bangkok, Thailand; November 2018],
>        104 [Prague, Czech Republic; March 2019],
>        105 [Montreal, Canada; July 2019], and
>        106 [Singapore; November 2019].
>
> Keep in mind that eligibility is based on in-person attendance at the 
> five listed meetings. You can check your eligibility at: 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_registration_nomcom.py&d=DwIDaQ&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=LoGzhC-8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=ZsNIRqCxjDeOYYDNalOSHcuwQG23wBJtxzmEnsbPBtI&s=7_9x9PPoUIajJs2AnUFYg0KnEg8gkD3Jnwf1v079EQo&e= 
> .
>
> If you qualify, please volunteer. Before you decide to volunteer, 
> please remember that anyone appointed to this NomCom will not be 
> considered as a candidate for any of the positions that the 2020 - 
> 2021 NomCom is responsible for filling.
>
> People commonly volunteer by ticking the box on IETF registration 
> forms. The IETF 106 form did not ask whether people were willing to 
> volunteer. IETF 107 did ask, but all those registrations were 
> canceled. I have asked the Secretariat if it is possible to get the 
> list if volunteers from canceled IETF 107 registrations. If that list 
> is available, I will contact all who are verified as eligible. But 
> given the uncertainty of this process, I would encourage people to 
> volunteer directly (see the bottom of this email for instructions). 
> Thank you for volunteering!
>
> The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2021 IETF 
> meeting, and thus the positions for which this NomCom is responsible, are
>
> IETF Trust:
>    Joel Halpern
>
> LLC:
>    Maja Andjelkovic
>
> IAB:
>    Jari Arkko
>    Jeff Tantsura
>    Mark Nottingham
>    Stephen Farrell
>    Wes Hardaker
>    Zhenbin Li
>
> IESG:
>    Alissa Cooper, IETF Chair/GEN AD
>    Alvaro Retana, RTG AD
>    Barry Leiba, ART AD
>    Deborah Brungard, RTG AD
>    Éric Vyncke, INT AD
>    Magnus Westerlund, TSV AD
>    Roman Danyliw, SEC AD
>    Warren Kumari, OPS AD
>
> All appointments are for 2 years. The Routing area has 3 ADs and the 
> General area has 1; all other areas have 2 ADs. Thus, all areas (that 
> have more than one AD) have at least one continuing AD.
>
> The primary activity for this NomCom will begin in July 2020 and 
> should be completed in January 2021.  The NomCom will have regularly 
> scheduled conference calls to ensure progress. There will be 
> activities to collect requirements from the community, review 
> candidate questionnaires, review feedback from community members about 
> candidates, and talk to candidates.
>
> While being a NomCom member does require some time commitment it is 
> also a very rewarding experience.
>
> As a member of the NomCom it is very important that you be willing and 
> able to attend either videoconference or in-person meetings (which may 
> not happen) during 14-20 November (IETF 109 - Bangkok) to conduct 
> interviews. Videoconference attendance will be supported whether or 
> not there are in-person meetings. Orientation and setting of the 
> NomCom schedule will be done by videoconference during the week 20-24 
> July (exact time and date to be determined after NomCom membership is 
> finalized on July 12), the week prior to IETF 108.  Being at IETF 110 
> (Prague) is not essential.
>
> Please volunteer by sending me an email before 23:59 UTC June 24, 
> 2020, as follows:
>
> To: nomcom-chair-2020@ietf.org
> Subject: NomCom 2020-21 Volunteer
>
> Please include the following information in the email body:
>
> Your Full Name:
>    // as you write it on the IETF registration form
>
> Current Primary Affiliation:
>    // Typically what goes in the Company field
>    // in the IETF Registration Form
>
> Emails:
>   // All email addresses used to register for the past 5 IETF meetings
>   // Preferred email address first
>
> Telephone:
>    // For confirmation if selected
>
> You should expect an email response from me within 5 business days 
> stating whether or not you are qualified.  If you don't receive this 
> response, please re-send your email with the tag "RESEND"" added to 
> the subject line.
>
> If you are not yet sure if you would like to volunteer, please 
> consider that NomCom members play a very important role in shaping the 
> leadership of the IETF.  Questions by email or voice are welcome. 
> Volunteering for the NomCom is a great way to contribute to the IETF!
>
> You can find a detailed timeline on the NomCom web site at:
>    https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_nomcom_2020_&d=DwIDaQ&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=LoGzhC-8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=ZsNIRqCxjDeOYYDNalOSHcuwQG23wBJtxzmEnsbPBtI&s=NgIu-7Ij0nEdsFcbJOLcl2M56RxyREhLAtcaHLatD34&e= 
>
>
> I will be publishing a more detailed target timetable, as well as 
> details of the randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797 selection 
> process, within the next few weeks.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Barbara Stark
> bs7652 at att dot com
> nomcom-chair-2020 at ietf dot org
>


From nobody Mon Jun 15 05:39:06 2020
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:39:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Hi Adrian,=20

I have a clarification question about this part:

=3D=3D
   o  The SFIR is advertised by the node hosting the service function
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^=20
      instance (i.e., the SFF).
=3D=3D

I guess what is meant here is that the SFF is servicing this SFI, not that =
the SFI is embedded in the same node as the SFF. No?

Also, you may consider updating this list:=20

     40    | Network Address Translator    | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
     41    | NAT44                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
     42    | NAT64                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
     43    | NPTv6                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set

With these types:

   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333

Thanks.=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Adrian Farrel
> Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 2 juin 2020 18:44
> =C0=A0: sfc@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Hi SFC WG,
>=20
> Just a note to let you know that we've made a new version of this draft.
>=20
> We've been responding to various IESG Discusses and Comments, and to the
> Routing Directorate review for this draft. You can see the exchanges on t=
he
> BESS list.
>=20
> This revision makes all of the associated changes. There is a fairly high
> level of change, but we believe that the changes are not very substantive.
>=20
> Please take some time to look at the diffs and shout if anything is
> alarming or unclear.
>=20
> Many thanks,
> Adrian
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: I-D-Announce <i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of
> > internet-drafts@ietf.org
> > Sent: 02 June 2020 09:05
> > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> > Cc: bess@ietf.org
> > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-14.txt
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.
> >
> >          Title           : BGP Control Plane for the Network Service
> Header
> > in Service Function Chaining
> >          Authors         : Adrian Farrel
> >                            John Drake
> >                            Eric Rosen
> >                            Jim Uttaro
> >                            Luay Jalil
> > 	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-14.txt
> > 	Pages           : 68
> > 	Date            : 2020-06-02
> >
> > Abstract:
> >     This document describes the use of BGP as a control plane for
> >     networks that support Service Function Chaining (SFC).  The document
> >     introduces a new BGP address family called the SFC Address Family
> >     Identifier / Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SFC AFI/SAFI) wi=
th
> >     two route types.  One route type is originated by a node to adverti=
se
> >     that it hosts a particular instance of a specified service function.
> >     This route type also provides "instructions" on how to send a packet
> >     to the hosting node in a way that indicates that the service functi=
on
> >     has to be applied to the packet.  The other route type is used by a
> >     Controller to advertise the paths of "chains" of service functions,
> >     and to give a unique designator to each such path so that they can =
be
> >     used in conjunction with the Network Service Header defined in RFC
> >     8300.
> >
> >     This document adopts the SFC architecture described in RFC 7665.
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane/
> >
> > There are also htmlized versions available at:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-14
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-
> plane-
> > 14
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-pla=
ne-
> 14
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Hi Med,

In line...

>   o  The SFIR is advertised by the node hosting the service function
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>      instance (i.e., the SFF).
>
>
> I guess what is meant here is that the SFF is servicing this SFI, not that
the
> SFI is embedded in the same node as the SFF. No?

Yeah. That can be clarified.
I'll hold it for completion of the IESG discussions.

> Also, you may consider updating this list: 
>
>     40    | Network Address Translator    | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
>     41    | NAT44                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
>     42    | NAT64                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
>     43    | NPTv6                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
>
> With these types:
>
>   o  Basic NAT44            ==> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
>   o  NAPT44                 ==> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
>   o  Destination NAT        ==> RFC 8512
>   o  NAT64                  ==> RFC 6146
>   o  SIIT                   ==> RFC 7915
>   o  EAM                    ==> RFC 7757
>   o  NPTv6                  ==> RFC 6296
>   o  DS-Lite                ==> RFC 6333

Considered, but not done :-Z

Our list was derived from RFC 7498 and RFC 8300.

It's quite likely that the list you give may need to be added, but at the
moment we don't have much push for more than we've listed. I think other
additional SFTs can be added at pretty much any time in the future.

Best,
Adrian


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From: "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Med, Adrian,
I have a couple of comments on this list:
> With these types:
>
>   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
>   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
>   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
>   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
>   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
>   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
>   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
>   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333

I think the term DS-Lite  does not uniquely identify a service function, be=
cause DSlite has two components/elements B4 and AFTR, each of them implemen=
ting different functions.
Here the definitions from RFC 6333:
AFTR section 6.1 :  "An AFTR element is the combination of an IPv4-in-IPv6 =
tunnel endpoint and an IPv4-IPv4 NAT implemented on the same node."
B4 section 5.1 : " The B4 element is a function implemented on a dual-stack=
-capable node, either a directly connected device or a CPE, that creates a =
tunnel to an AFTR."


Also if you decide to list in this section all the possible functions for I=
Pv4/IPv6 migration technologies other atomic function are missing, like for=
 instance MAP BR and CE RFC 7597, RFC 7599=20

Thanks
Roberta











-----Original Message-----
From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 10:57 PM
To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane

Hi Med,

In line...

>   o  The SFIR is advertised by the node hosting the service function
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^=20
>      instance (i.e., the SFF).
>
>
> I guess what is meant here is that the SFF is servicing this SFI, not=20
> that
the
> SFI is embedded in the same node as the SFF. No?

Yeah. That can be clarified.
I'll hold it for completion of the IESG discussions.

> Also, you may consider updating this list:=20
>
>     40    | Network Address Translator    | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
>     41    | NAT44                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
>     42    | NAT64                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
>     43    | NPTv6                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
>
> With these types:
>
>   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
>   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
>   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
>   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
>   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
>   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
>   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
>   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333

Considered, but not done :-Z

Our list was derived from RFC 7498 and RFC 8300.

It's quite likely that the list you give may need to be added, but at the m=
oment we don't have much push for more than we've listed. I think other add=
itional SFTs can be added at pretty much any time in the future.

Best,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
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sfc@ietf.org
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Hi Roberta,=20

Fully agree. What I had in mind is the AFTR part.=20

I also agree that MAP BR is a good candidate item to be listed as SFT.=20

That's said, I trust Adrian to do the right thing here.=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
> Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 16 juin 2020 10:05
> =C0=A0: adrian@olddog.co.uk; BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; sfc@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: RE: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Med, Adrian,
> I have a couple of comments on this list:
> > With these types:
> >
> >   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
> >   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
> >   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
> >   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
> >   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
> >   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
> >   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
> >   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333
>=20
> I think the term DS-Lite  does not uniquely identify a service function,
> because DSlite has two components/elements B4 and AFTR, each of them
> implementing different functions.
> Here the definitions from RFC 6333:
> AFTR section 6.1 :  "An AFTR element is the combination of an IPv4-in-IPv6
> tunnel endpoint and an IPv4-IPv4 NAT implemented on the same node."
> B4 section 5.1 : " The B4 element is a function implemented on a dual-
> stack-capable node, either a directly connected device or a CPE, that
> creates a tunnel to an AFTR."
>=20
>=20
> Also if you decide to list in this section all the possible functions for
> IPv4/IPv6 migration technologies other atomic function are missing, like
> for instance MAP BR and CE RFC 7597, RFC 7599
>=20
> Thanks
> Roberta
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 10:57 PM
> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Hi Med,
>=20
> In line...
>=20
> >   o  The SFIR is advertised by the node hosting the service function
> >                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >      instance (i.e., the SFF).
> >
> >
> > I guess what is meant here is that the SFF is servicing this SFI, not
> > that
> the
> > SFI is embedded in the same node as the SFF. No?
>=20
> Yeah. That can be clarified.
> I'll hold it for completion of the IESG discussions.
>=20
> > Also, you may consider updating this list:
> >
> >     40    | Network Address Translator    | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
> >     41    | NAT44                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
> >     42    | NAT64                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
> >     43    | NPTv6                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
> >
> > With these types:
> >
> >   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
> >   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
> >   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
> >   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
> >   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
> >   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
> >   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
> >   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333
>=20
> Considered, but not done :-Z
>=20
> Our list was derived from RFC 7498 and RFC 8300.
>=20
> It's quite likely that the list you give may need to be added, but at the
> moment we don't have much push for more than we've listed. I think other
> additional SFTs can be added at pretty much any time in the future.
>=20
> Best,
> Adrian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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From: "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Thanks Med.
So in my opinion, we should probably have here AFTR and MAP BR.

Cheers
Roberta

-----Original Message-----
From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:15 AM
To: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; adrian@olddog.co.uk; sfc@=
ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane

Hi Roberta,=20

Fully agree. What I had in mind is the AFTR part.=20

I also agree that MAP BR is a good candidate item to be listed as SFT.=20

That's said, I trust Adrian to do the right thing here.=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com] Envoy=E9=A0:=20
> mardi 16 juin 2020 10:05 =C0=A0: adrian@olddog.co.uk; BOUCADAIR Mohamed=20
> TGI/OLN; sfc@ietf.org Objet=A0: RE: [sfc] New version of=20
> draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Med, Adrian,
> I have a couple of comments on this list:
> > With these types:
> >
> >   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
> >   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
> >   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
> >   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
> >   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
> >   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
> >   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
> >   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333
>=20
> I think the term DS-Lite  does not uniquely identify a service=20
> function, because DSlite has two components/elements B4 and AFTR, each=20
> of them implementing different functions.
> Here the definitions from RFC 6333:
> AFTR section 6.1 :  "An AFTR element is the combination of an=20
> IPv4-in-IPv6 tunnel endpoint and an IPv4-IPv4 NAT implemented on the same=
 node."
> B4 section 5.1 : " The B4 element is a function implemented on a dual-=20
> stack-capable node, either a directly connected device or a CPE, that=20
> creates a tunnel to an AFTR."
>=20
>=20
> Also if you decide to list in this section all the possible functions=20
> for
> IPv4/IPv6 migration technologies other atomic function are missing,=20
> like for instance MAP BR and CE RFC 7597, RFC 7599
>=20
> Thanks
> Roberta
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 10:57 PM
> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of=20
> draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Hi Med,
>=20
> In line...
>=20
> >   o  The SFIR is advertised by the node hosting the service function
> >                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >      instance (i.e., the SFF).
> >
> >
> > I guess what is meant here is that the SFF is servicing this SFI,=20
> > not that
> the
> > SFI is embedded in the same node as the SFF. No?
>=20
> Yeah. That can be clarified.
> I'll hold it for completion of the IESG discussions.
>=20
> > Also, you may consider updating this list:
> >
> >     40    | Network Address Translator    | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
> >     41    | NAT44                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
> >     42    | NAT64                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
> >     43    | NPTv6                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-set
> >
> > With these types:
> >
> >   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
> >   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
> >   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
> >   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
> >   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
> >   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
> >   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
> >   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333
>=20
> Considered, but not done :-Z
>=20
> Our list was derived from RFC 7498 and RFC 8300.
>=20
> It's quite likely that the list you give may need to be added, but at=20
> the moment we don't have much push for more than we've listed. I think=20
> other additional SFTs can be added at pretty much any time in the future.
>=20
> Best,
> Adrian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

___________________________________________________________________________=
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Reply-To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Roberta Maglione \(robmgl\)'" <robmgl@cisco.com>, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, <sfc@ietf.org>
References: <042101d638fd$07f6e270$17e4a750$@olddog.co.uk> <28572_1592224741_5EE76BE5_28572_243_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330314DE3B3@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01b801d64357$8bc55730$a3500590$@olddog.co.uk> <DM6PR11MB36262BC9C00FB48897359E80D99D0@DM6PR11MB3626.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <21627_1592295290_5EE87F7A_21627_168_19_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330314DED82@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM6PR11MB36265F15E893A7285D21C25DD99D0@DM6PR11MB3626.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB36265F15E893A7285D21C25DD99D0@DM6PR11MB3626.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 10:13:05 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/B2xGqMMwRXHcbpOh_b8lm7abWIY>
Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Thanks Roberta and Med,

The purpose here, IMHO, is not to try to make a list of every possible
Service Function Type that might be needed one day. That would be an =
endless
task and I do not believe I am qualified to make such guesses.

The registry is First Come First Served for this reason. Once the =
registry
has been created, it will be a simple matter for anyone (you included!) =
to
decide that additional SFTs are needed, and get them registered.

Best,
Adrian

-----Original Message-----
From: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>=20
Sent: 16 June 2020 09:26
To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane

Thanks Med.
So in my opinion, we should probably have here AFTR and MAP BR.

Cheers
Roberta

-----Original Message-----
From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:15 AM
To: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; adrian@olddog.co.uk;
sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane

Hi Roberta,=20

Fully agree. What I had in mind is the AFTR part.=20

I also agree that MAP BR is a good candidate item to be listed as SFT.=20

That's said, I trust Adrian to do the right thing here.=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com] =
Envoy=E9=A0:=20
> mardi 16 juin 2020 10:05 =C0=A0: adrian@olddog.co.uk; BOUCADAIR =
Mohamed=20
> TGI/OLN; sfc@ietf.org Objet=A0: RE: [sfc] New version of=20
> draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Med, Adrian,
> I have a couple of comments on this list:
> > With these types:
> >
> >   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
> >   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
> >   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
> >   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
> >   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
> >   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
> >   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
> >   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333
>=20
> I think the term DS-Lite  does not uniquely identify a service=20
> function, because DSlite has two components/elements B4 and AFTR, each =

> of them implementing different functions.
> Here the definitions from RFC 6333:
> AFTR section 6.1 :  "An AFTR element is the combination of an=20
> IPv4-in-IPv6 tunnel endpoint and an IPv4-IPv4 NAT implemented on the =
same
node."
> B4 section 5.1 : " The B4 element is a function implemented on a dual- =

> stack-capable node, either a directly connected device or a CPE, that=20
> creates a tunnel to an AFTR."
>=20
>=20
> Also if you decide to list in this section all the possible functions=20
> for
> IPv4/IPv6 migration technologies other atomic function are missing,=20
> like for instance MAP BR and CE RFC 7597, RFC 7599
>=20
> Thanks
> Roberta
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 10:57 PM
> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of=20
> draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Hi Med,
>=20
> In line...
>=20
> >   o  The SFIR is advertised by the node hosting the service function
> >                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >      instance (i.e., the SFF).
> >
> >
> > I guess what is meant here is that the SFF is servicing this SFI,=20
> > not that
> the
> > SFI is embedded in the same node as the SFF. No?
>=20
> Yeah. That can be clarified.
> I'll hold it for completion of the IESG discussions.
>=20
> > Also, you may consider updating this list:
> >
> >     40    | Network Address Translator    | [This.I-D] | =
Date-to-be-set
> >     41    | NAT44                         | [This.I-D] | =
Date-to-be-set
> >     42    | NAT64                         | [This.I-D] | =
Date-to-be-set
> >     43    | NPTv6                         | [This.I-D] | =
Date-to-be-set
> >
> > With these types:
> >
> >   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
> >   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
> >   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
> >   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
> >   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
> >   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
> >   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
> >   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333
>=20
> Considered, but not done :-Z
>=20
> Our list was derived from RFC 7498 and RFC 8300.
>=20
> It's quite likely that the list you give may need to be added, but at=20
> the moment we don't have much push for more than we've listed. I think =

> other additional SFTs can be added at pretty much any time in the =
future.
>=20
> Best,
> Adrian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

_________________________________________________________________________=
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "'Roberta Maglione (robmgl)'" <robmgl@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
Thread-Index: AQJPBFgIT0iSiWxV0pYiMhfUCCcOWQMV0pGTAhvojWoBOjafpgFq6+dFAO3PTTeno00sQIAACguA
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
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Re-,=20

Fair enough and point taken. I will be registering the ones I suggested onc=
e the registry is available.=20

That's said, I would remove "Network Address Translator" entry from your in=
itial list as it overlaps with NAT44/NAT64.=20

Also, having an "additional notes" or something similar to include a pointe=
r (if available) to where the function is defined would be helpful for inte=
roperability.=20=20=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]
> Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 16 juin 2020 11:13
> =C0=A0: 'Roberta Maglione (robmgl)'; BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; sfc@ietf.=
org
> Objet=A0: RE: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Thanks Roberta and Med,
>=20
> The purpose here, IMHO, is not to try to make a list of every possible
> Service Function Type that might be needed one day. That would be an
> endless
> task and I do not believe I am qualified to make such guesses.
>=20
> The registry is First Come First Served for this reason. Once the registry
> has been created, it will be a simple matter for anyone (you included!) to
> decide that additional SFTs are needed, and get them registered.
>=20
> Best,
> Adrian
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>
> Sent: 16 June 2020 09:26
> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Thanks Med.
> So in my opinion, we should probably have here AFTR and MAP BR.
>=20
> Cheers
> Roberta
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:15 AM
> To: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; adrian@olddog.co.uk;
> sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [sfc] New version of draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
>=20
> Hi Roberta,
>=20
> Fully agree. What I had in mind is the AFTR part.
>=20
> I also agree that MAP BR is a good candidate item to be listed as SFT.
>=20
> That's said, I trust Adrian to do the right thing here.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De=A0: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com] Envoy=E9=A0:
> > mardi 16 juin 2020 10:05 =C0=A0: adrian@olddog.co.uk; BOUCADAIR Mohamed
> > TGI/OLN; sfc@ietf.org Objet=A0: RE: [sfc] New version of
> > draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
> >
> > Med, Adrian,
> > I have a couple of comments on this list:
> > > With these types:
> > >
> > >   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
> > >   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
> > >   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
> > >   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
> > >   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
> > >   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
> > >   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
> > >   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333
> >
> > I think the term DS-Lite  does not uniquely identify a service
> > function, because DSlite has two components/elements B4 and AFTR, each
> > of them implementing different functions.
> > Here the definitions from RFC 6333:
> > AFTR section 6.1 :  "An AFTR element is the combination of an
> > IPv4-in-IPv6 tunnel endpoint and an IPv4-IPv4 NAT implemented on the sa=
me
> node."
> > B4 section 5.1 : " The B4 element is a function implemented on a dual-
> > stack-capable node, either a directly connected device or a CPE, that
> > creates a tunnel to an AFTR."
> >
> >
> > Also if you decide to list in this section all the possible functions
> > for
> > IPv4/IPv6 migration technologies other atomic function are missing,
> > like for instance MAP BR and CE RFC 7597, RFC 7599
> >
> > Thanks
> > Roberta
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 10:57 PM
> > To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [sfc] New version of
> > draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane
> >
> > Hi Med,
> >
> > In line...
> >
> > >   o  The SFIR is advertised by the node hosting the service function
> > >                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >      instance (i.e., the SFF).
> > >
> > >
> > > I guess what is meant here is that the SFF is servicing this SFI,
> > > not that
> > the
> > > SFI is embedded in the same node as the SFF. No?
> >
> > Yeah. That can be clarified.
> > I'll hold it for completion of the IESG discussions.
> >
> > > Also, you may consider updating this list:
> > >
> > >     40    | Network Address Translator    | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-s=
et
> > >     41    | NAT44                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-s=
et
> > >     42    | NAT64                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-s=
et
> > >     43    | NPTv6                         | [This.I-D] | Date-to-be-s=
et
> > >
> > > With these types:
> > >
> > >   o  Basic NAT44            =3D=3D> Section 2.1 of RFC 3022
> > >   o  NAPT44                 =3D=3D> Section 2.2 of RFC 3022
> > >   o  Destination NAT        =3D=3D> RFC 8512
> > >   o  NAT64                  =3D=3D> RFC 6146
> > >   o  SIIT                   =3D=3D> RFC 7915
> > >   o  EAM                    =3D=3D> RFC 7757
> > >   o  NPTv6                  =3D=3D> RFC 6296
> > >   o  DS-Lite                =3D=3D> RFC 6333
> >
> > Considered, but not done :-Z
> >
> > Our list was derived from RFC 7498 and RFC 8300.
> >
> > It's quite likely that the list you give may need to be added, but at
> > the moment we don't have much push for more than we've listed. I think
> > other additional SFTs can be added at pretty much any time in the futur=
e.
> >
> > Best,
> > Adrian
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
> > sfc@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>=20


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From nobody Tue Jun 16 05:49:56 2020
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Network Service Header (NSH) Encapsulation for In-situ OAM (IOAM) Data
        Authors         : Frank Brockners
                          Shwetha Bhandari
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-04.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2020-06-16

Abstract:
   In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records
   operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet
   traverses a path between two points in the network.  This document
   outlines how IOAM data fields are encapsulated in the Network Service
   Header (NSH).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-04


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Proof of Transit
        Authors         : Frank Brockners
                          Shwetha Bhandari
                          Tal Mizrahi
                          Sashank Dara
                          Stephen Youell
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
	Pages           : 29
	Date            : 2020-06-16

Abstract:
   Several technologies such as Traffic Engineering (TE), Service
   Function Chaining (SFC), and policy based routing are used to steer
   traffic through a specific, user-defined path.  This document defines
   mechanisms to securely prove that traffic transited a defined path.
   These mechanisms allow to securely verify whether, within a given
   path, all packets traversed all the nodes that they are supposed to
   visit.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Greg Mirsky" <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-04 ready for WGLC? (was RE: PoT review/comments)
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From nobody Tue Jun 16 06:42:18 2020
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:42:14 -0400
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Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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The chairs are starting the WG last call for 
draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please reply explicitly whether you 
think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a Experimental RFC.
As noted below, the call runs through June 30.

Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.

Yours,
Joel (& Jim)

On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
> 
> The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been changed to "In
> WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> 
> Comment:
> This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
> 


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From: Daniel Migault <mglt.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:08:22 -0400
Message-ID: <CADZyTkkCAU7vRDvzg+NtmTv8829RtAN+Or=QGOWUks=PdKgObQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>,  "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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--00000000000058762205a835c122
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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I support the adoption of the document. I believe this is a starting point,
but I also believe that regular synch with the security community will be
needed to ensure the document goes easily to the IESG.

Yours,
Daniel

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 8:26 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Jim and Joel,
> I've read the draft It is an excellent document that addresses one of the
> essential SFC NSH elements - data integrity and security. I support the
> adoption of the draft by the WG.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 7:35 AM James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear WG:
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with
>> respect to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity=
/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7C=
james.n.guichard%40futurewei.com%7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8=
ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268773297941987&sdata=3DRyuUMav1ED=
RgSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS8Np%2BsE%3D&reserved=3D0>.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday,
>> 18th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for
>> adoption of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs
>> gauge consensus.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim & Joel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>


--=20
Daniel Migault
Ericsson

--00000000000058762205a835c122
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I support the adoption of the=C2=A0document. I believe thi=
s is a starting point, but I also believe that regular synch with the secur=
ity community will be needed to ensure the document goes easily to the IESG=
.=C2=A0=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Yours,=C2=A0<br>Daniel</div></div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 8,=
 2020 at 8:26 PM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">g=
regimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jim and Joel,<div>I&#39;ve read the=
 draft It is an excellent document that addresses one of the essential SFC =
NSH elements - data integrity and security. I support the adoption of the d=
raft by the WG.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Th=
u, Jun 4, 2020 at 7:35 AM James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guic=
hard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for those that responded to the chairs pre=
vious email with respect to
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protectio=
n.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-=
sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.com%=
7Cfd774bf3e9f84a854f0508d80892a9bf%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7=
C0%7C637268773297941987&amp;sdata=3DRyuUMav1EDRgSwYa3BeYZlES3YAHcohOhf9oS8N=
p%2BsE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:blue">ht=
tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</span></a>.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">We would like to star=
t an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18<sup>th</sup> June 20=
20. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adoption of th=
is document into the WG, with comments
 to help the chairs gauge consensus.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Thank You!<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Jim &amp; Joel</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Daniel Migault<br></div><d=
iv>Ericsson</div></div></div>

--00000000000058762205a835c122--


From nobody Wed Jun 17 17:35:02 2020
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 17:34:43 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmUS==1xObkw3oQgvRX07V6D4sa6sehXFNXQONRxMdnefw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
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Dear Carlos,
thank you for sharing your opinion. Please find my closing notes in-line
below now tagged GIM2>>.

Regards,
Greg


On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 4:30 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi, Greg,
>
> Thanks for the quick response.
>
> I feel that your responses are diverging from addressing the issues I
> brought up.
> I also want to ensure there is unpolluted space for others to share their
> thoughts. This draft has shown in the past that silence can be very loud,
> as the interest level seems challenged.
>
GIM2>> We have our opinions but that is up to WG  and WG Chairs to decide.

>
> As such, this is my last email on this thread.
>
> Please find some closing comments inline, prefaced with =E2=80=9CCMP: "
>
> 2020/06/03 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C6:33=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.=
com>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>
> Dear Carlos,
> please find my answers and notes below in-line under GIM2>> tag.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Greg,
>>
>> A top-level response first:
>>
>> GIM>> Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational Reference
>> and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism addresses.
>>
>>
>> This superficial patch does not address my deep and foundational concern=
,
>> expressed initially 2 years ago before
>> draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam adoption.
>>
>> The idea is to start from the framework=E2=80=99s evaluation to understa=
nd what
>> is needed based on that gap study, and produce a solutions that build on
>> existent =E2=80=94 not work in a vacuum, and then add an Informational R=
eference
>> orthogonally.
>>
>>
> CMP: Greg, you selectively skipped responding to this issue which is a
> critical one, in my humble opinion.
>
GIM2>> As I've demonstrated, and also acknowledged in the SEF OAM
framework, as-is ICMP cannot be used to trace SFP. The solution described
in the draft can be used as ping and tracing tool over an SFP. I'm always
open to discuss constructive technical arguments about the proposed
solution.

>
>
>> ~~~
>> As a complete aside, I got curious about the filename of this I-D, which
>> has nothing to do with the content.
>>
>> This document went from:
>>             Multi-Layering OAM for Service function Chaining
>> Abstract
>>    This document tries to discuss some problems in SFC OAM framework
>>    document and proposes the SFC OAM multi-layering requirements in SFC
>>    domain to improve the troubleshooting efficiency.
>>
>> To something completely different.
>>
>> It is as if the filename was reused to write 2 or 3 different drafts.
>> Looking at diffs, there is not a single sentence that remained from earl=
ier
>> versions.
>> ~~~
>>
> GIM2>> In the opinion of authors, that is the reflection of the evolution
> of the document. do you see that to be a violation of any IETF process?
>
>
> CMP: I made no inference or judgement =E2=80=94 it was a factual comment.
> CMP: That said, the =E2=80=9Cviolation of any IETF process=E2=80=9D respo=
nse from you is
> a straw man argument.
> CMP: Since you implicitly ask, seems like a Trojan horse disguising lack
> of value, rather than process violation.
>
>
>> Comments inline.
>>
>> 2020/06/02 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C7:28=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail=
.com>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>>
>> Dear Carlos,
>> please find my answers and notes in-line under the GIM>> tag.
>> Please let me know if you have any further questions.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
>> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Greg,
>>>
>>> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for asking and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s some thoug=
hts:
>>>
>>> Hello, WG, Chairs,
>>>
>>> I believe fundamental concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=80=
=94
>>> examples:
>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/
>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/
>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/
>>> And since some of those questions were asked during adoption, I=E2=80=
=99d
>>> recommend at least un-adopting this document.
>>>
>>> Email threading in one-year-old and two-year-old emails is super hard t=
o
>>> parse and follow, so some key concerns are:
>>> 1. This document describes an OAM solution, but ignores the WG=E2=80=99=
s SFC OAM
>>> framework which sits with the IESG.
>>>
>> GIM>> Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Informational Reference
>> and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism addresses.
>>
>>
>> See above.
>>
>
>
> CMP: You also did not respond to this. Another example of selectively not
> responding.
>
> CMP: I was happy to engage into a technical and architectural discussion
> to improve the outcomes produced by a WG. That is not possible if you
> selectively skip comments.
>
GIM2>> I always carefully consider and respond to constructive technical
arguments.

>
>
>>
>> 2. Existing protocols can already provide solutions without the need of
>>> inventing a new protocol on paper. See #1 above.
>>>
>> GIM>> Could you kindly reference a document that describes how existing
>> protocols can be used to troubleshoot SFC NSH? If I look at the SFC OAM
>> framework draft I can only find the sub-section about the potential use =
of
>> ICMP that closes with the following:
>>    It could be observed that ICMP at its current stage may not be able
>>    to perform all required SFC OAM functions, but as explained above, it
>>    can be used for some of the connectivity functions.
>> If ICMP cannot be used, then what other, unnamed in the SFC OAM Framewor=
k
>> document, existing protocol can be used as SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply
>> mechanism?
>>
>>
>>
>> What I read in that paragraph is:
>> 1. ICMP can as-is solve many (but not ALL) required OAM functions.
>> 2. Adding to ICMP is the path of least resistance, it is largely there,
>> but needs additions to support ALL OAM functions.
>>
> GIM2>> We appreciate you sharing your ideas but authors decided to develo=
p
> an alternative approach.
>
>
> CMP: Yes, I know that the authors of this document chose to develop a
> brand new protocol on paper. That is one of my concerns.
>
> Also, we note that as you've mentioned above, you have made this
> suggestion two years ago. IETF, as we understand, is a contribution-drive=
n
> organization and the fact that in, at least, two years no one, including
> you, produced a document, using the suggested by you approach, probably c=
an
> be interpreted as lack of interest to that idea.
>
>
> CMP: I=E2=80=99m trying to decide which type of fallacy this argument fal=
ls
> under =E2=80=94 I think more than one.
>
> CMP: Unfortunately, this direction of discussion does not help advance or
> solve anything.
>
> CMP: Since you attempt to turn this into my intentions, I chose to focus
> on the bigger picture (framework) first, and on the milestones agreed by
> the WG first.
>
> CMP: Let me be clear: no other active OAM contributions do not imply this
> document is useful or sensible.
>
> CMP: As I already mentioned, the framework document shows how ICMP is
> enough for most needs, it can be enhanced, it also shows other existing
> approaches.
>
GIM2>> I've searched through the SFC OAM framework and couldn't find
another example of partially working for SFC on-demand path continuity
verification and tracing mechanism. Perhaps you mean that a tool that
checks SFC availability? But in the face of SFC availability being
undefined, it is hard to verify that some on-path mechanism in fact can be
used to on-demand verify SFP continuity and trace the SFP.

>
>
>> 3. There are already documented SFC traceroute implementations but this
>>> document has no implementation experience. See #2 above.
>>>
>> GIM>> As mentioned in the SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP may not fully
>> address all the needs of tracing SFP. Is there any other document mentio=
ned
>> in the framework that can?
>>
>>
>> Greg,
>> 1. Yes, I-D.penno-sfc-trace has the indisputable running code proof.
>>
> GIM2>> It is interesting that you present a draft that was abandoned by
> its authors for more than five years as a possible foundation of a
> specification to facilitate interoperable implementations.
>
>
> CMP: Greg, I-D.penno-sfc-trace *has* interoperable implementations
> already.
>
> CMP: Since you bring this up, can you please explain to the WG which
> implementations exist of draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam? Please :-)
>
> Personally, I am not questioning that there are tools to address the
> problem that we are addressing with the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply
> proposal. But these are proprietary tools and, at least so far, none of i=
ts
> authors stepped in with a document sufficient to have interoperable
> implementations.
>
>
> CMP: Do you realize that none of these are valid explanations of why it
> makes sense to start a brand new protocol from scratch without answering
> the comparative to existing?
>
> 2. Instead of copying MPLS LSP Ping into a brand new protocol, fill in th=
e
>> gaps based on existing modules.
>>
> GIM2>> Again, thank you for sharing your suggestions. True, SFC NSH share=
s
> ideas with the design proven by MPLS LSP.
>
>
> CMP: "Shares ideas" is an understatement, for the record.
>
> Our approach is no different from the approach taken by authors, includin=
g
> you and me, of draft-ietf-bier-ping
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ping/>.
>
>
> CMP: Another diversion. Let=E2=80=99s talk about your document in SFC :)
> CMP: That said, the approach is hugely different, for multicast vs.
> unicast service path chaining. Is that an oversimplification fallacy?
>
> As noted earlier, the fact that there's no contribution that uses the pat=
h
> you've been advocating for 2+ years may be interpreted as the indication
> that it is not a practical direction.
>
>
> CMP: Greg, another fallacy. There are many potential reasons.
>
> CMP: If you ask me, frankly, I think the WG does not care enough about
> this topic to begin with =E2=80=94 that is no reason to let any idea in p=
aper
> go through.
>
GIM2>> Well, let the WG and WG Chairs to decide.

>
>
>> The point here is implementation experience =E2=80=94 could you answer t=
he still
>> unanswered question #1 here?
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/
>>
> GIM2>> I will look into it and respond in a separate mail.
>
>
> CMP: Thanks. That said, I=E2=80=99m signing off from this thread as the R=
OI of
> responding does not add up.
>
> Best,
>
> Carlos.
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Dear Greg,
>>>
>>> Could you please start responding to previous questions? Apologies in
>>> advance if I missed any of your responses.
>>>
>>> Per our analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping
>>> and SFP traceroute.
>>>
>>>
>>> Which analysis? Perhaps you could share that analysis?
>>>
>> GIM>> Gladly. I was referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As noted in the
>> framework draft, ICMP can be used to ping an SFC entity along the SFP if
>> the sender knows the IP address of that entity and the number of IP hops=
 to
>> that distance (rather impractical but theoretically achievable). But can
>> ICMP be used to trace the given SFP without the upfront knowledge of IP
>> addresses of SFC entities along the SFP? Based on our analysis, not. Ass=
ume
>> that the destination IP address is set to the IP address of the last SFF
>> (similar to how ICMP traceroute works in IP network) and TTL in NSH is s=
et
>> to 1. The first downstream from the sender SFF will remove the NSH and
>> forward the ICMP packet to its destination over the IP network.
>>
>>
>> NOT.
>>
>> As I had pointed out earlier, there are MANY ways of intercepting a
>> packet. Use an IP option or a flag in the NSH.
>>
> GIM2>> I don't argue that the solution described in the draft is the only
> possible. But can you point to a document that describes, sufficiently
> accurately
>
>>
>> Problems with your logic:
>> 1. When you say ICMP you are thinking unmodified ICMP Echo packet. Think
>> outside that box.
>>
> GIM2>> Again, thank you for sharing your ideas. Probably some of your
> colleagues will get interested and develop a solution based on them.
>
>> 2. Whatever you use you need to intercept.
>>
> GIM2>> Agree. I believe that the solution described in the draft addresse=
s
> that problem.
>
>>
>> Similarly, when NSH' TTL incremented, the second SFF will remove NSH and
>> forward ICMP packet to its destination, i.e. the last SFF. As a result, =
all
>> ICMP echo replies the sender will receive will be from the same SFF, fro=
m
>> the last SFF in the given SFP. Clearly, that is not what a traceroute to=
ol
>> should produce.
>>
>>>
>>> Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the ping function
>>> but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.
>>>
>>>
>>> What exactly did you need to add to have that functionality as opposed
>>> to your consideration of ICMP?
>>>
>> GIM>> A dedicated to SFC NSH OAM protocol type.
>>
>>>
>>>
>> Incorrect again. There is no technical need to add an SFC NSH OAM
>> protocol type. There are many ways of marking a pak as OAM and
>> demultiplexing the protocol.
>>
> GIM2>> We, the authors, are not claiming that the proposed solution is th=
e
> only one possible. We've analyzed options and decided to develop this
> approach. Others can decide differently and present their work as a draft=
.
>
>>
>> I do understand you have a solution in mind.
>>
> GIM2>> Indeed, it is documented in the draft being discussed. Also, there
> are several individual SFC OAM drafts that use SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply
> mechanism.
>
>>
>> Carlos.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Carlos.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2020/05/20 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gma=
il.com>=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>> this version includes a minor update to the Security Considerations
>>> section.
>>> We, the authors, believe that the draft is ready for the WG LC. It
>>> defines an essential function of SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per =
our
>>> analysis, existing OAM mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP
>>> traceroute. Consider ICMP. When encapsulated in NSH, it supports the pi=
ng
>>> function but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.
>>> We much appreciate your comments and questions.
>>>
>>> Dear Jim and Joel,
>>> please kindly consider the WG LC for this draft.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>>> Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM
>>> Subject: New Version Notification for
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
>>> To: Bhumip Khasnabish <vumip1@gmail.com>, Cui(Linda) Wang <
>>> lindawangjoy@gmail.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Wei Meng =
<
>>> meng.wei2@zte.com.cn>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt
>>> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
>>> IETF repository.
>>>
>>> Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
>>> Revision:       05
>>> Title:          Active OAM for Service Function Chains in Networks
>>> Document date:  2020-05-20
>>> Group:          sfc
>>> Pages:          18
>>> URL:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.=
txt
>>> Status:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
>>> Htmlized:
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05
>>> Htmlized:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
>>> Diff:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05
>>>
>>> Abstract:
>>>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration and
>>>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is
>>>    presented.  Based on these requirements an encapsulation of active
>>>    OAM message in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects
>>>    described.  Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the definition o=
f
>>>    O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defines how the
>>>    active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>> submission
>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>>
>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sfc mailing list
>>> sfc@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Carlos,<div>thank you for sharing yo=
ur opinion. Please find my closing notes in-line below now tagged GIM2&gt;&=
gt;.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg<br><div><br></div></d=
iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 4:30 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wra=
p: break-word;">Hi, Greg,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the quick response.=
</div><div><br></div><div>I feel that your responses are diverging from add=
ressing the issues I brought up.</div><div>I also want to ensure there is u=
npolluted space for others to share their thoughts. This draft has shown=C2=
=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">in the past</span>=C2=A0that silence ca=
n be very loud, as the interest level seems challenged.</div></div></blockq=
uote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; We have our opinions but that is up to WG=C2=A0 and =
WG Chairs to decide.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><br></div><div>As suc=
h, this is my last email on this thread.</div><div><br></div><div>Please fi=
nd some closing comments inline, prefaced with =E2=80=9CCMP: &quot;<br><div=
><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>2020/06/03 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C6:33=E3=80=
=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:</div>=
<br><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Carlos,<br><div>please find=
 my answers and notes below in-line under GIM2&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Carlo=
s Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Dear Greg,<div><br></div><div>A top-level re=
sponse first:</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Will add the SFC OAM f=
ramework document as Informational Reference and clarify which functionalit=
y the proposed mechanism addresses.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div></div></div></div></=
div><div>This superficial patch does not address my deep and foundational c=
oncern, expressed initially 2 years ago before draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am=C2=A0adoption.</div><div><br></div><div>The idea is to start from the fr=
amework=E2=80=99s evaluation to understand what is needed based on that gap=
 study, and produce a solutions that build on existent =E2=80=94 not work i=
n a vacuum, and then add an Informational Reference orthogonally.</div><div=
><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">CMP: Greg, you selectively skipped r=
esponding to this issue which is a critical one, in my humble opinion.</spa=
n></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; As I&#39;ve demons=
trated, and also acknowledged in the SEF OAM framework, as-is ICMP cannot b=
e used to trace SFP. The solution described in the draft can be used as pin=
g and tracing tool over an SFP. I&#39;m always open to discuss constructive=
 technical arguments about the proposed solution.</div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><di=
v><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br>=
</div><div>~~~</div><div>As a complete aside, I got curious about the filen=
ame of this I-D, which has nothing to do with the content.</div><div><br></=
div><div>This document went from:</div><div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Multi-Layering OAM for Service function Chaining</div><di=
v>Abstract</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document tries to discuss some probl=
ems in SFC OAM framework</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0document and proposes the S=
FC OAM multi-layering requirements in SFC</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0domain to =
improve the troubleshooting efficiency.</div><br>To something completely di=
fferent.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>It is as if the filename was reused=
 to write 2 or 3 different drafts. Looking at diffs, there is not a single =
sentence that remained from earlier versions.</div><div>~~~</div></div></bl=
ockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; In the opinion of authors, that is the reflectio=
n of the evolution of the document. do you see that to be a violation of an=
y IETF process?=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv><font color=3D"#000000"><span>CMP: I made no inference or judgement=C2=
=A0=E2=80=94 it was a factual comment.</span></font></div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000">CMP: That said, the=C2=A0=E2=80=9Cviolation of any IETF proces=
s=E2=80=9D=C2=A0response from you is a=C2=A0straw man argument.=C2=A0</font=
></div><div><font color=3D"#000000">CMP: Since you=C2=A0implicitly ask, see=
ms like a=C2=A0Trojan horse disguising lack of value, rather than process v=
iolation.</font></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><div><div><br></div><div>Comments inline.<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><div>2020/06/02 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C7:28=E3=80=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;te=
xt-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-=
decoration:none"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Carlos,<br><div>please find my answe=
rs and notes in-line under the GIM&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div>Please let me kno=
w if you have any further questions.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div=
><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div><div>Dear Greg,</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>We much appreciate your comments and questions.</div=
></div></blockquote></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>Thank y=
ou for asking and inviting commentary. Here=E2=80=99s some thoughts:</div><=
/div></div><div><br></div>Hello, WG, Chairs,<div><br></div><div>I believe f=
undamental concerns with this work remain unanswered =E2=80=94 examples:</d=
iv><div><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3e=
U8yFuLqKvNteQ/" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc=
/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/</a></div><div><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.=
ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/" target=3D"_blank">https=
://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TT3L-R05fbIGkfjr-x_oifBrhsc/</a></div>=
<div><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sSO2BcgXereje4Pxn=
GY9Wv_pDOs/" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sS=
O2BcgXereje4PxnGY9Wv_pDOs/</a></div><div>And since some of those questions =
were asked during adoption, I=E2=80=99d recommend at least un-adopting this=
 document.</div><div><br></div><div>Email threading in one-year-old and two=
-year-old emails is super hard to parse and follow, so some key concerns ar=
e:</div><div>1. This document describes an OAM solution, but ignores the WG=
=E2=80=99s SFC OAM framework which sits with the IESG.</div></div></blockqu=
ote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Will add the SFC OAM framework document as Information=
al Reference and clarify which functionality the proposed mechanism address=
es.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>See above.</div></di=
v></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br=
></div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">CMP: You also did not=C2=A0</span><=
font color=3D"#000000"><span>respond to this. Another example of selectivel=
y not responding.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span><br=
></span></font></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">CMP: I was happy=
 to engage into a=C2=A0</span><font color=3D"#000000">technical and archite=
ctural discussion to improve the outcomes=C2=A0produced by a WG. That is no=
t possible if you selectively skip comments.</font></div></div></div></bloc=
kquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; I always carefully consider and respond=C2=A0to co=
nstructive technical arguments.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000"><span><br></span></font><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div><div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"l=
tr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-va=
riant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start=
;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;te=
xt-decoration:none"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><blockquote s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div>2. Existing protocols can al=
ready provide solutions without the need of inventing a new protocol on pap=
er. See #1 above.</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Could you kindly=
 reference a document that describes how existing protocols can be used to =
troubleshoot SFC NSH? If I look at the SFC OAM framework draft I can only f=
ind the sub-section about the potential use of ICMP that closes with the fo=
llowing:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0It could be observed that ICMP at its curre=
nt stage may not be able<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0to perform all required SFC OAM fu=
nctions, but as explained above, it<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0can be used for some of=
 the connectivity functions.<br></div><div>If ICMP cannot be used, then wha=
t other, unnamed in the SFC OAM Framework document, existing protocol can b=
e used as SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply mechanism?</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div=
></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What I read in that paragraph=
 is:</div><div>1. ICMP can as-is solve many (but not ALL) required OAM func=
tions.</div><div>2. Adding to ICMP is the path of least resistance, it is l=
argely there, but needs additions to support ALL OAM functions.</div></div>=
</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; We appreciate you sharing your i=
deas but authors decided to develop an alternative approach.</div></div></d=
iv></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>CMP=
: Yes, I know that the authors of this document chose to=C2=A0develop a bra=
nd new protocol on paper. That is one of my concerns.</span></font></div><d=
iv><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div> Also, we note that as you&#39;ve mentioned above, you ha=
ve made this suggestion two years ago. IETF, as we understand, is a contrib=
ution-driven organization and the fact that in, at least, two years no one,=
 including you, produced a document, using the suggested by you approach, p=
robably can be interpreted=C2=A0as lack of interest to that idea.=C2=A0</di=
v></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font color=3D"#000000=
">CMP: I=E2=80=99m trying to decide which type of fallacy this argument fal=
ls under=C2=A0=E2=80=94 I think more than one.</font></div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000"><br></font></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">CMP: Un=
fortunately, this direction of discussion does not help advance or solve an=
ything.</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div>=
<div><font color=3D"#000000">CMP: Since you attempt to turn this into my in=
tentions, I chose to focus on the bigger picture (framework) first, and on=
=C2=A0the milestones agreed by the WG first.=C2=A0</font></div><div><font c=
olor=3D"#000000"><br></font></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">CMP=
: Let me be clear: no other active OAM contributions do not imply this docu=
ment is useful or sensible.=C2=A0</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb=
(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>CMP: As I=C2=
=A0already mentioned, the framework document shows how ICMP is enough for m=
ost needs, it can be enhanced, it also shows other existing approaches.</sp=
an></font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; I&#39;ve s=
earched through the SFC OAM framework and couldn&#39;t find another example=
 of partially working for SFC on-demand path continuity verification and tr=
acing mechanism. Perhaps you mean that a tool that checks SFC availability?=
 But in the face of SFC availability=C2=A0being undefined, it is hard to ve=
rify that some on-path mechanism in fact can be used to on-demand verify SF=
P continuity and trace the SFP.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><br><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div><br><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size=
:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-=
spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-s=
pace:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(=
204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div>3. There are=
 already documented SFC traceroute implementations but this document has no=
 implementation experience. See #2 above.</div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&=
gt;&gt; As mentioned in the SFC OAM Framework draft, ICMP may not fully add=
ress all the needs of tracing SFP. Is there any other document mentioned in=
 the framework that can?=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br=
></div><div>Greg,</div><div>1. Yes,=C2=A0I-D.penno-sfc-trace has the indisp=
utable running code proof.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt=
;&gt; It is interesting that you present a draft that was abandoned by its =
authors for more than five years as a possible foundation of a specificatio=
n to facilitate interoperable implementations. </div></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">CMP: Greg,=C2=
=A0</span>I-D.penno-sfc-trace *has* interoperable implementations already.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>CMP: Since you bring this up, can you please expla=
in to the WG which implementations exist of=C2=A0draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer=
-oam? Please :-)=C2=A0</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Personally, I am not questioning that =
there are tools to address the problem that we are addressing with the SFC =
NSH Echo Request/Reply proposal. But these are proprietary tools and, at le=
ast so far, none of its authors stepped in with a document sufficient to ha=
ve interoperable implementations.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>=
<br></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>CMP: Do you realize that none =
of these are valid explanations of why it makes sense to start a brand new =
protocol from scratch without answering the comparative to=C2=A0existing?</=
span></font></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v><div><div><div>2. Instead of copying MPLS LSP Ping into a brand new proto=
col, fill in the gaps based on existing modules.</div></div></div></div></b=
lockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Again, thank you for sharing your suggestions. =
True, SFC NSH shares ideas with the design proven by MPLS LSP. </div></div>=
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0=
)">CMP: &quot;Shares ideas&quot; is an understatement, for the record.</spa=
n></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div>Our approach is no different from the approach taken by au=
thors, including you and me, of <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-ietf-bier-ping/" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bier-ping</a>. </div><=
/div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font color=3D"#000000">C=
MP:=C2=A0Another diversion. Let=E2=80=99s talk about your document in SFC :=
)=C2=A0</font></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">CMP: That said, t=
he approach is hugely different, for multicast vs. unicast service path cha=
ining. Is that an oversimplification=C2=A0</span><font color=3D"#000000"><s=
pan>fallacy?</span></font></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>As noted earlier, the fact that th=
ere&#39;s no contribution that uses the path you&#39;ve been advocating for=
 2+ years may be interpreted as the indication that it is not a practical d=
irection.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">CMP: Greg, another fallacy. There are many potentia=
l reasons.=C2=A0</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></sp=
an></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">CMP: If you ask me, frankly,=
 I think the WG does not care enough about this=C2=A0</span><font color=3D"=
#000000">topic to=C2=A0begin with=C2=A0=E2=80=94 that is no reason to let a=
ny idea in paper go=C2=A0through.=C2=A0</font></div></div></div></div></blo=
ckquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Well, let the WG and WG Chairs to decide.=C2=A0</=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflo=
w-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div><div><div><div><br></div><div>The point here is implementat=
ion experience =E2=80=94 could you answer the still unanswered question #1 =
here?</div><div><a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/Ndxlfx=
BuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch=
/msg/sfc/NdxlfxBuvaFp3eU8yFuLqKvNteQ/</a></div></div></div></div></blockquo=
te><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; I will look into it and respond in a separate mail.=C2=
=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font color=3D"=
#000000"><span>CMP: Thanks. That said, I=E2=80=99m signing off from this th=
read as the ROI of responding does not add up.</span></font></div><div><fon=
t color=3D"#000000"><span><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#0000=
00"><span>Best,</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span><br><=
/span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>Carlos.=C2=A0</span><=
/font></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v><div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant=
-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text=
-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-de=
coration:none"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div><br></div><div>Dear Greg,</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Could you please start responding to previous questions? Apologies in ad=
vance if I missed any of your responses.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Per our analysis, existing=C2=A0OAM =
mechanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP traceroute.<span>=C2=A0</sp=
an></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Which analysis? Perhaps you=
 could share that analysis?</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; =
Gladly. I was referring to ICMP over SFC NSH. As noted in the framework dra=
ft, ICMP can be used to ping an SFC entity along the SFP if the sender know=
s the IP address of that entity and the number of IP hops to that distance =
(rather impractical but theoretically achievable). But can ICMP be used to =
trace the given SFP without the upfront knowledge of IP addresses of SFC en=
tities along the SFP? Based on our analysis, not. Assume that the destinati=
on IP address is set to the IP address of the last SFF (similar to how ICMP=
 traceroute works in IP network) and TTL in NSH is set to 1. The first down=
stream from the sender SFF will remove the NSH=C2=A0and forward the ICMP pa=
cket to its destination over the IP network.</div></div></div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>NOT.</div><div><br></div><div>As I had pointed ou=
t earlier, there are MANY ways of intercepting a packet. Use an IP option o=
r a flag in the NSH.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; =
I don&#39;t argue that the solution described in the draft is the only poss=
ible. But can you point to a document that describes, sufficiently accurate=
ly=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><=
div><div><br></div><div>Problems with your logic:</div><div>1. When you say=
 ICMP you are thinking unmodified ICMP Echo packet. Think outside that box.=
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Again, thank you for=
 sharing your ideas. Probably some of your colleagues will get interested a=
nd develop a solution based on them.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex"><div><div><div><div>2. Whatever you use you need to interc=
ept.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Agree. I believe=
 that the solution described in the draft addresses that problem.=C2=A0</di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div><br><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;=
font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:norma=
l;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:non=
e;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div> Similarly, when NSH&#39; TTL incremented, the second SFF =
will remove NSH and forward ICMP packet to its destination, i.e. the last S=
FF. As a result, all ICMP echo replies the sender will receive will be from=
 the same SFF, from the last SFF in the given SFP. Clearly, that is not wha=
t a traceroute tool should produce.</div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div>Consider ICMP. When encapsulated=C2=A0in NSH, it supports the ping func=
tion but, per our analysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.</div></d=
iv></blockquote><br></div><div>What exactly did you need to add to have tha=
t functionality as opposed to your consideration of ICMP?</div></div></bloc=
kquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; A dedicated to SFC NSH OAM protocol type.=C2=A0</di=
v><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div><br></div></d=
iv></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Incorrec=
t again. There is no technical need to add an SFC NSH OAM protocol type. Th=
ere are many ways of marking a pak as OAM and demultiplexing the protocol.=
=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; We, the author=
s, are not claiming that the proposed solution is the only one possible. We=
&#39;ve analyzed=C2=A0options and decided to develop this approach. Others =
can decide differently and present their work as a draft.</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div><div><br></div><div>I =
do understand you have a solution in mind.</div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Indeed, it is documented in the draft being discussed=
. Also, there are several individual SFC OAM drafts that use SFC NSH Echo R=
equest/Reply mechanism.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div><div><div><div><br></div><div>Carlos.</div><br><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;=
font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacin=
g:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:n=
ormal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div>Thanks!</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Carlos.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div><b=
r><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>2020/05/20 =E5=8D=88=E5=BE=8C10:51=E3=80=
=81Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB:</div>=
<br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>this version includes a minor updat=
e to the Security Considerations section.</div><div>We, the authors, believ=
e that the draft is ready for the WG LC. It defines an essential function o=
f SFC OAM - SFP Echo request/reply. Per our analysis, existing=C2=A0OAM mec=
hanisms cannot support both SFP ping and SFP traceroute. Consider ICMP. Whe=
n encapsulated=C2=A0in NSH, it supports the ping function but, per our anal=
ysis, cannot be used as an SFP tracing tool.</div><div>We much appreciate y=
our comments and questions.</div><div><br></div><div>Dear Jim and Joel,</di=
v><div>please kindly consider the WG LC for this draft.</div><div><br></div=
><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br=
>From:<span>=C2=A0</span><span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-=
drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><=
br>Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM<br>Subject: New Version Notification =
for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br>To: Bhumip Khasnabish &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:vumip1@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">vumip1@gmail.com</a>&gt;,=
 Cui(Linda) Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lindawangjoy@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">lindawangjoy@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gre=
gimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Wei Me=
ng &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:meng.wei2@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank">meng.wei2@=
zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sf=
c-multi-layer-oam-05.txt<br>has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky =
and posted to the<br>IETF repository.<br><br>Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam<br>Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A005<br>Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Active OAM for =
Service Function Chains in Networks<br>Document date:=C2=A0 2020-05-20<br>G=
roup:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc<br>Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 18<br>URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<span>=C2=
=A0</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-mu=
lti-layer-oam-05.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf=
.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05.txt</a><br>Status:=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/d=
oc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a><br>Htmli=
zed:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft=
-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://=
tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05</a><br>Htmlized:=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr=
aft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam</a><br>Diff:=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rf=
cdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-=
oam-05</a><br><br>Abstract:<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for activ=
e Operation, Administration and<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Servic=
e Function Chains (SFCs) in networks is<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0presented.=C2=A0 Ba=
sed on these requirements an encapsulation of active<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM me=
ssage in SFC and a mechanism to detect and localize defects<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0described.=C2=A0 Also, this document updates RFC 8300 in the definition =
of<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) and defi=
nes how the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0active OAM message identified in SFC NSH.<br><b=
r><br><br><br>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the tim=
e of submission<br>until the htmlized version and diff are available at<spa=
n>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br><br>The IETF Secretariat<br><br><br></di=
v></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>sfc mailin=
g list<br><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a=
><br><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank=
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a></div></blockquote></div></d=
iv></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>=
</div></blockquote></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

--00000000000005aff505a850f220--


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From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:30:08 +0530
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Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Hi Jim & Joel,

I did manage to do a fast read of the I-D and consider it is in good
enough condition to be adopted by the working group. I will try to
provide a more substantial review as the document progresses.

Thanks!
Dhruv

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM James Guichard
<james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
> Dear WG:
>
>
>
> Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with respect to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/.
>
>
>
> We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adoption of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs gauge consensus.
>
>
>
> Thank You!
>
>
>
> Jim & Joel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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From: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>
To: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
CC: "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/HSiHY92SlT2luu91xRwPDuoNt_Q>
Subject: Re: [sfc] WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity
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Dear WG:

This email concludes the WG adoption call for https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-=
integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.com%7C36f143a36b=
f1406e38c208d80894889b%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372687=
81323360755&sdata=3DH5PnqKxHr5qURbiT%2Fv1rFmRGjK%2BT8L9xT%2FQPlyesEEA%3D&re=
served=3D0>. The chairs believe there is enough consensus to accept this do=
cument into the WG and thank you to those who have expressed a desire to ac=
tively work on it.

Authors, please resubmit the document as draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00.

Thanks!

Jim & Joel



From: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2020 10:35 AM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Cc: sfc-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity

Dear WG:

Thank you for those that responded to the chairs previous email with respec=
t to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/<https:/=
/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.gui=
chard%40futurewei.com%7C36f143a36bf1406e38c208d80894889b%7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
9c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268781323360755&sdata=3DH5PnqKxHr5qURbiT%2Fv1=
rFmRGjK%2BT8L9xT%2FQPlyesEEA%3D&reserved=3D0>.

We would like to start an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18=
th June 2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adop=
tion of this document into the WG, with comments to help the chairs gauge c=
onsensus.

Thank You!

Jim & Joel




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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This email concludes the WG adoption call for <span =
style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.com%7C36f143a36bf1406e38c208d8089=
4889b%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637268781323360755&amp;s=
data=3DH5PnqKxHr5qURbiT%2Fv1rFmRGjK%2BT8L9xT%2FQPlyesEEA%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:blue">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</span></a>.
</span>The chairs believe there is enough consensus to accept this document=
 into the WG and thank you to those who have expressed a desire to actively=
 work on it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Authors, please resubmit the document as draft-ietf-=
sfc-nsh-integrity-00.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jim &amp; Joel<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> James Guichard &lt;james.n.guichard@fut=
urewei.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 04, 2020 10:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sfc-chairs@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Adoption call for draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity<o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for those that responded to the chairs pre=
vious email with respect to
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-reb=
o-sfc-nsh-integrity%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjames.n.guichard%40futurewei.co=
m%7C36f143a36bf1406e38c208d80894889b%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1=
%7C0%7C637268781323360755&amp;sdata=3DH5PnqKxHr5qURbiT%2Fv1rFmRGjK%2BT8L9xT=
%2FQPlyesEEA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ue">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity/</span></=
a>.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">We would like to st=
art an official WG adoption call concluding Thursday, 18<sup>th</sup> June =
2020. Please indicate on the mailing list support (or not) for adoption of =
this document into the WG, with comments
 to help the chairs gauge consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thank You!<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Jim &amp; Joel</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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Hi Franck, all,=20

I know that you are working on this since a while. Please find below some c=
omments on the YANG part to hopefully save you some cycles during upcoming =
reviews:

(1) Remove "?" from the explanation text in Section 5.2.1

(2)=20

OLD:=20
The meaning of the symbols in these diagrams is
   as follows:

   o  Brackets "[" and "]" enclose list keys.

   o  Abbreviations before data node names: "rw" means configuration
      (read-write), and "ro" means state data (read-only).

   o  Symbols after data node names: "?" means an optional node, "!"
      means a presence container, and "*" denotes a list and leaf-list.

   o  Parentheses enclose choice and case nodes, and case nodes are also
      marked with a colon (":").

   o  Ellipsis ("...") stands for contents of subtrees that are not
      shown.

NEW:
  The meaning of the symbols in YANG tree diagrams is defined in [RFC8340].

(3) Remove <CODE BEGINS> and <CODE ENDS> from the tree diagram

(4) Instead of:

           +--rw active-profile-index?   profile-index-range=20

You can define a status leaf under pot-profile-list to indicate the activat=
ion status.

(5) Any reason why are you using version 1? If not, please update to "1.1"

(6) As your groupings are called only once, and unless you want to define t=
hem as reusable by other modules, you may just define those as part of the =
main container.=20=20=20=20

(7) IANA Section should be updated as follows:=20

OLD:
   This document does not require any actions from IANA.

NEW:

   IANA is requested to register the following URI in the "ns" subregistry =
within
   the "IETF XML Registry" [RFC3688]:

      URI:  urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile
      Registrant Contact:  The IESG.
      XML:  N/A; the requested URI is an XML namespace.

   IANA is requested to register the following YANG module in the "YANG Mod=
ule
   Names" subregistry [RFC7950] within the "YANG Parameters" registry.

      Name:  ietf-pot-profile
      Maintained by IANA:  N
      Namespace:  urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile
      Prefix:  ietf-pot-profile
      Reference:  RFC XXXX

(7) You should update the Security Section as per https://trac.ietf.org/tra=
c/ops/wiki/yang-security-guideline.=20

And a more general note:=20

=3D=3D
   Several deployments use Traffic Engineering, policy routing, Segment
   Routing (SR), and Service Function Chaining (SFC) [RFC7665] to steer
   packets through a specific set of nodes.  In certain cases,
   regulatory obligations or a compliance policy require operators to
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   prove that all packets that are supposed to follow a specific path
   are indeed being forwarded across and exact set of pre-determined
   nodes.
=3D=3D

Do you have pointers to such regulatory obligations? It would be good to ad=
d a pointer if you are aware of any. Thanks.=20

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Joel M. Halpern
> Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 16 juin 2020 15:42
> =C0=A0: sfc@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-tra=
nsit
>=20
> The chairs are starting the WG last call for
> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please reply explicitly whether you
> think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a Experimental
> RFC.
> As noted below, the call runs through June 30.
>=20
> Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.
>=20
> Yours,
> Joel (& Jim)
>=20
> On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
> >
> > The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been changed to
> "In
> > WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> >
> > Comment:
> > This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

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From nobody Fri Jun 19 05:09:13 2020
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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Integrity Protection for the Network Service Header (NSH) and Encryption of Sensitive Context Headers
        Authors         : Mohamed Boucadair
                          Tirumaleswar Reddy
                          Dan Wing
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2020-06-18

Abstract:
   This specification adds integrity protection and optional encryption
   of sensitive metadata directly to the Network Service Header (NSH)
   used for Service Function Chaining (SFC).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
CC: Shunsuke Homma <s.homma0718@gmail.com>, "draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org" <draft-rebo-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org>, "Diego R. Lopez" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00.txt
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Hi all,=20

FWIW, the source is available at: https://github.com/boucadair/draft-ietf-s=
fc-nsh-integrity.=20

We are also maintaining a list of open issues at open issues at : https://g=
ithub.com/boucadair/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity/issues.

Diego, we made the editorial change you suggested in -00. Please let us kno=
w if this is better.
=20
Please review and share your comments/suggestions.=20

Thank you.=20

Cheers,
Med

-----Message d'origine-----
De=A0: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de in=
ternet-drafts@ietf.org
Envoy=E9=A0: vendredi 19 juin 2020 14:09
=C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc=A0: sfc@ietf.org
Objet=A0: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Integrity Protection for the Network Service Head=
er (NSH) and Encryption of Sensitive Context Headers
        Authors         : Mohamed Boucadair
                          Tirumaleswar Reddy
                          Dan Wing
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2020-06-18

Abstract:
   This specification adds integrity protection and optional encryption
   of sensitive metadata directly to the Network Service Header (NSH)
   used for Service Function Chaining (SFC).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


_______________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________=
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From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" <srihari@cisco.com>, "stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com" <stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Hi Med,

Thanks a lot for your comments. Please see inline (...FB)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> Sent: Freitag, 19. Juni 2020 08:36
> To: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org
> Cc: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-tran=
sit
>=20
> Hi Franck, all,
>=20
> I know that you are working on this since a while. Please find below some
> comments on the YANG part to hopefully save you some cycles during upcomi=
ng
> reviews:
>=20
> (1) Remove "?" from the explanation text in Section 5.2.1

...FB: Will do.
>=20
> (2)
>=20
> OLD:
> The meaning of the symbols in these diagrams is
>    as follows:
>=20
>    o  Brackets "[" and "]" enclose list keys.
>=20
>    o  Abbreviations before data node names: "rw" means configuration
>       (read-write), and "ro" means state data (read-only).
>=20
>    o  Symbols after data node names: "?" means an optional node, "!"
>       means a presence container, and "*" denotes a list and leaf-list.
>=20
>    o  Parentheses enclose choice and case nodes, and case nodes are also
>       marked with a colon (":").
>=20
>    o  Ellipsis ("...") stands for contents of subtrees that are not
>       shown.
>=20
> NEW:
>   The meaning of the symbols in YANG tree diagrams is defined in [RFC8340=
].

...FB: Good point. We can indeed get rid of the legacy text and refer to RF=
C8340.
>=20
> (3) Remove <CODE BEGINS> and <CODE ENDS> from the tree diagram

...FB: Will do.
>=20
> (4) Instead of:
>=20
>            +--rw active-profile-index?   profile-index-range
>=20
> You can define a status leaf under pot-profile-list to indicate the activ=
ation
> status.

...FB: Very doable - especially since the open source implementation in VPP=
 also only uses and active and a standby profile.
>=20
> (5) Any reason why are you using version 1? If not, please update to "1.1=
"

...FB: Nothing specific. The model got defined (and implemented as part of =
OpenDaylight) back in 2016.

>=20
> (6) As your groupings are called only once, and unless you want to define=
 them
> as reusable by other modules, you may just define those as part of the ma=
in
> container.

...FB: We could consider doing so. The reason why we kept the model fairly =
stable so far was that there is an existing implementation in open source (=
Opendaylight), hence the preference to not change things unless there is a =
real need. Would you be ok to stay with the current structure?

>=20
> (7) IANA Section should be updated as follows:
>=20
> OLD:
>    This document does not require any actions from IANA.
>=20
> NEW:
>=20
>    IANA is requested to register the following URI in the "ns" subregistr=
y within
>    the "IETF XML Registry" [RFC3688]:
>=20
>       URI:  urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile
>       Registrant Contact:  The IESG.
>       XML:  N/A; the requested URI is an XML namespace.
>=20
>    IANA is requested to register the following YANG module in the "YANG M=
odule
>    Names" subregistry [RFC7950] within the "YANG Parameters" registry.
>=20
>       Name:  ietf-pot-profile
>       Maintained by IANA:  N
>       Namespace:  urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile
>       Prefix:  ietf-pot-profile
>       Reference:  RFC XXXX
>=20
> (7) You should update the Security Section as per
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guideline.

...FB: ACK on both points above.
>=20
> And a more general note:
>=20
> =3D=3D
>    Several deployments use Traffic Engineering, policy routing, Segment
>    Routing (SR), and Service Function Chaining (SFC) [RFC7665] to steer
>    packets through a specific set of nodes.  In certain cases,
>    regulatory obligations or a compliance policy require operators to
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    prove that all packets that are supposed to follow a specific path
>    are indeed being forwarded across and exact set of pre-determined
>    nodes.
> =3D=3D
>=20
> Do you have pointers to such regulatory obligations? It would be good to =
add a
> pointer if you are aware of any. Thanks.

...FB: One of the co-authors and initiators of POT, Stephen, might have mor=
e specific references available.=20
>From what I know, there are company policies that require path verification=
. In case we don't find a formal reference, we'll change the statement in t=
he next revision and avoid mentioning "regulatory obligations".


>=20
> Hope this helps.

Very helpful indeed. Thanks again.

Cheers, Frank
>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Joel M. Halpern
> > Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 16 juin 2020 15:42 =C0=A0: sfc@ietf.org Objet=A0: Re=
: [sfc]
> > IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
> >
> > The chairs are starting the WG last call for
> > draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please reply explicitly whether you
> > think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a
> > Experimental RFC.
> > As noted below, the call runs through June 30.
> >
> > Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.
> >
> > Yours,
> > Joel (& Jim)
> >
> > On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
> > >
> > > The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been
> > > changed to
> > "In
> > > WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
> > >
> > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> > >
> > > Comment:
> > > This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
> > sfc@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________
>=20
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>=20
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" <srihari@cisco.com>, "stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com" <stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Hi Franck,=20

Thanks for the follow-up.

Please see inline.=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) [mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com]
> Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 24 juin 2020 18:12
> =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.o=
rg
> Cc=A0: Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org; Srihari Raghavan (srihari);
> stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com
> Objet=A0: RE: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-tra=
nsit
>=20
> Hi Med,
>=20
> Thanks a lot for your comments. Please see inline (...FB)
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> > Sent: Freitag, 19. Juni 2020 08:36
> > To: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org
> > Cc: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-
> transit
> >
> > Hi Franck, all,
> >
> > I know that you are working on this since a while. Please find below so=
me
> > comments on the YANG part to hopefully save you some cycles during
> upcoming
> > reviews:
> >
> > (1) Remove "?" from the explanation text in Section 5.2.1
>=20
> ...FB: Will do.
> >
> > (2)
> >
> > OLD:
> > The meaning of the symbols in these diagrams is
> >    as follows:
> >
> >    o  Brackets "[" and "]" enclose list keys.
> >
> >    o  Abbreviations before data node names: "rw" means configuration
> >       (read-write), and "ro" means state data (read-only).
> >
> >    o  Symbols after data node names: "?" means an optional node, "!"
> >       means a presence container, and "*" denotes a list and leaf-list.
> >
> >    o  Parentheses enclose choice and case nodes, and case nodes are also
> >       marked with a colon (":").
> >
> >    o  Ellipsis ("...") stands for contents of subtrees that are not
> >       shown.
> >
> > NEW:
> >   The meaning of the symbols in YANG tree diagrams is defined in
> [RFC8340].
>=20
> ...FB: Good point. We can indeed get rid of the legacy text and refer to
> RFC8340.
> >
> > (3) Remove <CODE BEGINS> and <CODE ENDS> from the tree diagram
>=20
> ...FB: Will do.
> >
> > (4) Instead of:
> >
> >            +--rw active-profile-index?   profile-index-range
> >
> > You can define a status leaf under pot-profile-list to indicate the
> activation
> > status.
>=20
> ...FB: Very doable - especially since the open source implementation in V=
PP
> also only uses and active and a standby profile.

[Med] Great. Thanks.

> >
> > (5) Any reason why are you using version 1? If not, please update to
> "1.1"
>=20
> ...FB: Nothing specific. The model got defined (and implemented as part of
> OpenDaylight) back in 2016.
>=20

[Med] Then, please update the module to use 1.1.

> >
> > (6) As your groupings are called only once, and unless you want to defi=
ne
> them
> > as reusable by other modules, you may just define those as part of the
> main
> > container.
>=20
> ...FB: We could consider doing so. The reason why we kept the model fairly
> stable so far was that there is an existing implementation in open source
> (Opendaylight), hence the preference to not change things unless there is=
 a
> real need. Would you be ok to stay with the current structure?
>=20

[Med] Fair enough.=20

> >
> > (7) IANA Section should be updated as follows:
> >
> > OLD:
> >    This document does not require any actions from IANA.
> >
> > NEW:
> >
> >    IANA is requested to register the following URI in the "ns"
> subregistry within
> >    the "IETF XML Registry" [RFC3688]:
> >
> >       URI:  urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile
> >       Registrant Contact:  The IESG.
> >       XML:  N/A; the requested URI is an XML namespace.
> >
> >    IANA is requested to register the following YANG module in the "YANG
> Module
> >    Names" subregistry [RFC7950] within the "YANG Parameters" registry.
> >
> >       Name:  ietf-pot-profile
> >       Maintained by IANA:  N
> >       Namespace:  urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile
> >       Prefix:  ietf-pot-profile
> >       Reference:  RFC XXXX
> >
> > (7) You should update the Security Section as per
> > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guideline.
>=20
> ...FB: ACK on both points above.
> >
> > And a more general note:
> >
> > =3D=3D
> >    Several deployments use Traffic Engineering, policy routing, Segment
> >    Routing (SR), and Service Function Chaining (SFC) [RFC7665] to steer
> >    packets through a specific set of nodes.  In certain cases,
> >    regulatory obligations or a compliance policy require operators to
> >    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >    prove that all packets that are supposed to follow a specific path
> >    are indeed being forwarded across and exact set of pre-determined
> >    nodes.
> > =3D=3D
> >
> > Do you have pointers to such regulatory obligations? It would be good to
> add a
> > pointer if you are aware of any. Thanks.
>=20
> ...FB: One of the co-authors and initiators of POT, Stephen, might have
> more specific references available.
> From what I know, there are company policies that require path
> verification. In case we don't find a formal reference, we'll change the
> statement in the next revision and avoid mentioning "regulatory
> obligations".
>=20

[Med] Looks like a good plan.

>=20
> >
> > Hope this helps.
>=20
> Very helpful indeed. Thanks again.
>=20
> Cheers, Frank
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Med
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Joel M. Halpern
> > > Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 16 juin 2020 15:42 =C0=A0: sfc@ietf.org Objet=A0: =
Re: [sfc]
> > > IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
> > >
> > > The chairs are starting the WG last call for
> > > draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please reply explicitly whether you
> > > think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a
> > > Experimental RFC.
> > > As noted below, the call runs through June 30.
> > >
> > > Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > > Joel (& Jim)
> > >
> > > On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been
> > > > changed to
> > > "In
> > > > WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
> > > >
> > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> > > >
> > > > Comment:
> > > > This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sfc mailing list
> > > sfc@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >


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In-Reply-To: <024644e7-22e8-f266-4591-6789dc283713@joelhalpern.com>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 12:12:49 -0700
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Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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--000000000000afdc4205a8d94360
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Dear Authors, Chairs, et al.,
I've read and reviewed the latest version of the draft. The document is
well-written and addresses the essential problem in a very elegant manner.
I have several questions on the applicability of the proposed solution to
SFC NSH:

   - several technologies listed in the Introduction

   Several deployments use Traffic Engineering, policy routing, Segment
   Routing (SR), and Service Function Chaining (SFC) [RFC7665] to steer
   packets through a specific set of nodes.

I think that adding more references to IETF documents that defined the
technology, e.g. RFC 8402, RFC 8595, would benefit the text.


   -  as noted above, the document mentions a number of techniques to steer
   a flow over the particular path, including SFC NSH. That does make lots of
   sense for the Introduction but, since this is SFC WG document, one can
   expect more information on how POT can be used in SFC NSH environment. It
   would certainly be beneficial to provide as an example of carrying POT data
   using some of these methods? I think that for the SFC WG SFC NSH is the
   most desirable example.  Currently, some pieces of information can be found
   in draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data and some in draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh. I've
   tried to put them all together for SFC NSH but I don't think that I've got
   the puzzle together. I appreciate it if you can help me understand (likely
   I've missed it in one of the drafts) which elements of an SFC, i.e. SFF,
   SF/SF Proxy, Classifier, are POT-acting nodes? Also, are there requirements
   for SFC elements specific to POT?
   - looking at section 4.5 draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data
   <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-09#section-4.5> I
   think that it limits the number of POT profiles that are used to calculate
   the Cumulative on a node to two. profile-index-range is defined as 0,1 but
   without the reference, it is not easy to understand the reason for the
   limitation. This is probably just one example where the additional
   reference in YANG data model will be helpful (I've noticed only one and it
   is empty).
   - continuing on pot-profile-index, how it is used in the SFC
   environment? And what ensures that all POT nodes along the SFP have a
   consistent view of POT profiles.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 6:42 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

> The chairs are starting the WG last call for
> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please reply explicitly whether you
> think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a Experimental
> RFC.
> As noted below, the call runs through June 30.
>
> Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.
>
> Yours,
> Joel (& Jim)
>
> On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
> >
> > The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been changed to
> "In
> > WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> >
> > Comment:
> > This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

--000000000000afdc4205a8d94360
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Authors, Chairs, et al.,<br><div>I&#39;ve read and re=
viewed the latest version of the draft. The document=C2=A0is well-written a=
nd addresses the essential problem in a very elegant manner.</div><div>I ha=
ve several questions on the applicability of the proposed solution to SFC N=
SH:</div><div><ul><li>several technologies listed in the Introduction</li><=
/ul><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Several deployments use Traffic Engineering, policy routing, S=
egment<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Routing (SR), and Service Function Chaining (SFC) [R=
FC7665] to steer<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets through a specific set of nodes.<b=
r></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;pad=
ding:0px"><div>I think that adding more references to IETF documents that d=
efined the technology, e.g. RFC 8402, RFC 8595, would benefit the text.</di=
v></blockquote><ul><li>=C2=A0as noted above, the document mentions a number=
 of techniques to steer a flow over the particular path, including SFC NSH.=
 That does make lots of sense for the Introduction but, since this is SFC W=
G document, one can expect more information on how POT can be used in SFC N=
SH environment. It would certainly be beneficial to provide as an example o=
f carrying POT data using some of these methods? I think that for the SFC W=
G SFC NSH is the most desirable example.=C2=A0 Currently, some pieces of in=
formation can be found in=C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data and some in=C2=A0d=
raft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh. I&#39;ve tried to put them all together for SFC NSH=
 but I don&#39;t think that I&#39;ve got the puzzle together. I appreciate =
it if you can help me understand (likely I&#39;ve missed it in one of the d=
rafts) which elements of an SFC, i.e. SFF, SF/SF Proxy, Classifier, are POT=
-acting nodes? Also, are there requirements for SFC elements specific to PO=
T?<br></li><li>looking at <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf=
-ippm-ioam-data-09#section-4.5">section 4.5=C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data<=
/a>=C2=A0I think that it limits the number of POT profiles that are used to=
 calculate the Cumulative on a node to two. profile-index-range is defined =
as 0,1 but without the reference, it is not easy to understand the reason f=
or the limitation. This is probably just one example where the additional r=
eference in YANG data model will be helpful (I&#39;ve noticed only one and =
it is empty).=C2=A0</li><li>continuing on pot-profile-index, how it is used=
 in the SFC environment? And what ensures that all POT nodes along the SFP =
have a consistent=C2=A0view of POT profiles.</li></ul><div>Regards,</div></=
div><div>Greg</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 6:42 AM Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The chair=
s are starting the WG last call for <br>
draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.=C2=A0 Please reply explicitly whether you =
<br>
think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a Experimental RFC=
.<br>
As noted below, the call runs through June 30.<br>
<br>
Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel (&amp; Jim)<br>
<br>
On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been changed =
to &quot;In<br>
&gt; WG Last Call&quot; from &quot;WG Document&quot; by Joel Halpern:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-tr=
ansit/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/d=
oc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Comment:<br>
&gt; This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000afdc4205a8d94360--


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Thread-Topic: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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From: Sashank Dara <sashank@seconize.co>
To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/_8T1N7-_WPUKmgc_O_UN22qpeWU>
Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Dear SFC Team

I believe the POT protocols , have Internet wide applications .
As a co-author , I fully support publishing of the draft POT documents as e=
xperimental RFC

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/


Regards,
Dr. Sashank Dara (Ph.D)
Co-Founder & CTO
Mob: +91 - 9448572488
https://www.seconize.co<https://www.seconize.co/>

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eHKmAu8w2PdJA>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear SFC Team <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe the POT protocols , have Internet wide app=
lications .<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As a co-author , I fully support publishing of the d=
raft POT documents as experimental RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ie=
tf-sfc-proof-of-transit/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-p=
roof-of-transit/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:E=
N-IN">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-IN">Dr. Sashank Dara (Ph.D)<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;color:=
gray;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">Co-Founder &amp; CTO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;col=
or:gray;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">Mob: &#43;91 &#8211; 9448572488<o:p></o=
:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:E=
N-IN"><a href=3D"https://www.seconize.co/"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;c=
olor:#0563C1">https://www.seconize.co</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
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To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/KWZ356npBS0WhmyGN54Tyj9Ylyw>
Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Hello all,

I support progressing this draft to an Experimental RFC. Please consider th=
e following comments (mostly editorial):

1)
Not sure what is implied by the sentence below (Sec 1):=20
> A particular set of nodes "to be verified" is either described by a set o=
f shares of a single secret. =20

2)
The following sentence (Sec 1) describes about controller nodes and verifie=
r nodes. While the former's role could be easily understood, I am not sure =
the latter node role is clearly defined. If it does not limit the scope, we=
 may use only one terminology or clarify the difference, if we need to refe=
r about two roles.
> The complete secret set is only known to  the controller and a verifier n=
ode, which is typically the ultimate node on a path that performs verificat=
ion.

3)
Sec 7.9.1
OLD=20
 Since these schemes introduce at least additional control requirements, th=
e selection of order verification SHOULD be configurable the Controller man=
agement interface
NEW
Since these schemes introduce at least additional control requirements, the=
 selection of order verification SHOULD be configurable BY the Controller m=
anagement interface

4)
Sec 3.2 has the words Solution Approach duplicated

5)
Not sure if there is a missing reference here (Sec: 3.3.1.3):=20
> For a general way to compute the modular multiplicative inverse, see   e.=
g., the Euclidean algorithm.

6)
General comment: It may be helpful to either have a diagram or a pointer to=
 a diagram pointing out the different roles like Controller, ingress node. =
Also I am not sure if there is text (other than the section in Security Con=
siderations) that explains that POT should be deployed in a set of nodes un=
der a single administrative domain.

Thanks
Prasad

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
> > Sent: Dienstag, 16. Juni 2020 15:42
> > To: sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for=20
> > draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
> >
> > The chairs are starting the WG last call for=20
> > draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please reply explicitly whether=20
> > you think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a Experime=
ntal RFC.
> > As noted below, the call runs through June 30.
> >
> > Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.
> >
> > Yours,
> > Joel (& Jim)
> >
> > On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
> > >
> > > The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been=20
> > > changed to "In WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
> > >
> > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> > >
> > > Comment:
> > > This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
> > sfc@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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From: Akshaya Nadahalli <akshaya.nadahalli@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 19:13:45 +0530
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/TxgON_ADA2fEY1adBMUecM7WPyo>
Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit)
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--000000000000b1fadd05a8e8c885
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I support the publishing of this draft as an Experimental RFC.

Regards,
Akshaya N


>     > From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
>     > Sent: Dienstag, 16. Juni 2020 15:42
>     > To: sfc@ietf.org
>     > Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for
> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
>     >
>     > The chairs are starting the WG last call for
> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please
>     > reply explicitly whether you think this is ready to go to the IETF
> for publication as
>     > a Experimental RFC.
>     > As noted below, the call runs through June 30.
>     >
>     > Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.
>     >
>     > Yours,
>     > Joel (& Jim)
>     >
>     > On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
>     > >
>     > > The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been
> changed
>     > > to "In WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
>     > >
>     > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
>     > >
>     > > Comment:
>     > > This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
>     > >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > sfc mailing list
>     > sfc@ietf.org
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>
>

--000000000000b1fadd05a8e8c885
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I support the publishing of this draft as an Experime=
ntal RFC.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Akshaya N</div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; From: sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Joel M. H=
alpern<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Sent: Dienstag, 16. Juni 2020 15:42<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sf=
c@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-=
sfc-proof-of-transit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; The chairs are starting the WG last call for draft-ietf-=
sfc-proof-of-transit.=C2=A0 Please<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; reply explicitly whether you think this is ready to go t=
o the IETF for publication as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; a Experimental RFC.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; As noted below, the call runs through June 30.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Note that silence does not imply consent, so please spea=
k up.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Joel (&amp; Jim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transi=
t has been changed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; to &quot;In WG Last Call&quot; from &quot;WG Docume=
nt&quot; by Joel Halpern:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i=
etf-sfc-proof-of-transit/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; Comment:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; This starts WG last call for this document, ending =
June 30.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; sfc mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sf=
c</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000b1fadd05a8e8c885--


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From: "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" <srihari@cisco.com>
To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Subject: [sfc] Subject: Re: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Youell, Stephen" <stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>, "'Frank Brockners (fbrockne)'" <fbrockne@cisco.com>, "'draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org'" <draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org>
CC: "'Joel M. Halpern'" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "'sfc@ietf.org'" <sfc@ietf.org>, "'Srihari Raghavan (srihari)'" <srihari@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 19:38:00 +0000
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References: <159231433807.30534.15301055086560120997@ietfa.amsl.com> <024644e7-22e8-f266-4591-6789dc283713@joelhalpern.com> <9345_1592548533_5EEC5CB5_9345_73_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330314E39A6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <BYAPR11MB25842A7DDCA9BF5FCB5A28DBDA950@BYAPR11MB2584.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <10976_1593015533_5EF37CED_10976_370_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330314E6854@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <e0deb6a1830e413ea58191787898b60e@SFAEX010.exchad.jpmchase.net>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Hi Steve,

Thank you for sharing this pointer. Much appreciated.

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I don't quite see how this is related t=
o proof of transit.

Can you please clarify? Thank you.

Cheers,
Med

De : Youell, Stephen [mailto:stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com]
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 25 juin 2020 15:30
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; 'Frank Brockners (fbrockne)'; 'draft-ietf-=
sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org'
Cc : 'Joel M. Halpern'; 'sfc@ietf.org'; 'Srihari Raghavan (srihari)'
Objet : RE: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit

Hi Med,
Responding on the reference question you had for "regulatory requirements" =
I would suggest:

[PCI-DSS] "Payment Card Industry (PCI) Data Security Standard",
          <https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/documents/PCI_DSS_v3-2-1.pd=
f>


More specifically it is requirement 1 which I have taken the pertinent text=
 from below:


Page 20: Build and Maintain a Secure Network and Systems
Requirement 1: Install and maintain a firewall configuration to protect car=
dholder data
Requirement 1.1.1: A formal process for approving and testing all network c=
onnections and changes to the firewall and router configurations
Testing procedure:

-          Examine documented procedures to verify there is a formal proces=
s for testing and approval of all: * Network connections and * Changes to f=
irewall and router configurations

-          For a sample of network connections, interview responsible perso=
nnel and examine records to verify that network connections were approved a=
nd tested.
Guidance: A documented and implemented process for approving and testing al=
l connections and changes to the firewalls and routers will help prevent se=
curity problems caused by misconfiguration of the network, router, or firew=
all. Without formal approval and testing of changes, records of the changes=
 might not be updated, which could lead to inconsistencies between network =
documentation and the actual configuration.

Regards,
Steve


From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> [ma=
ilto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 5:19 PM
To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com<mailto:fbrockne@cisco.co=
m>>; draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-proof-o=
f-transit@ietf.org>
Cc: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>; sfc@=
ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>; Srihari Raghavan (srihari) <srihari@cisco.co=
m<mailto:srihari@cisco.com>>; Youell, Stephen <stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com<=
mailto:stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>>
Subject: RE: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit

Hi Franck,

Thanks for the follow-up.

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Frank Brockners (fbrockne) [mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com<mailto:fbrockn=
e@cisco.com>]
> Envoy=E9 : mercredi 24 juin 2020 18:12
> =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org=
<mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org>
> Cc : Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>; Srihari Raghavan=
 (srihari);
> stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com<mailto:stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>
> Objet : RE: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-trans=
it
>
> Hi Med,
>
> Thanks a lot for your comments. Please see inline (...FB)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>=
 <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>>
> > Sent: Freitag, 19. Juni 2020 08:36
> > To: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-proo=
f-of-transit@ietf.org>
> > Cc: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>; =
sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> > Subject: RE: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-
> transit
> >
> > Hi Franck, all,
> >
> > I know that you are working on this since a while. Please find below so=
me
> > comments on the YANG part to hopefully save you some cycles during
> upcoming
> > reviews:
> >
> > (1) Remove "?" from the explanation text in Section 5.2.1
>
> ...FB: Will do.
> >
> > (2)
> >
> > OLD:
> > The meaning of the symbols in these diagrams is
> >    as follows:
> >
> >    o  Brackets "[" and "]" enclose list keys.
> >
> >    o  Abbreviations before data node names: "rw" means configuration
> >       (read-write), and "ro" means state data (read-only).
> >
> >    o  Symbols after data node names: "?" means an optional node, "!"
> >       means a presence container, and "*" denotes a list and leaf-list.
> >
> >    o  Parentheses enclose choice and case nodes, and case nodes are also
> >       marked with a colon (":").
> >
> >    o  Ellipsis ("...") stands for contents of subtrees that are not
> >       shown.
> >
> > NEW:
> >   The meaning of the symbols in YANG tree diagrams is defined in
> [RFC8340].
>
> ...FB: Good point. We can indeed get rid of the legacy text and refer to
> RFC8340.
> >
> > (3) Remove <CODE BEGINS> and <CODE ENDS> from the tree diagram
>
> ...FB: Will do.
> >
> > (4) Instead of:
> >
> >            +--rw active-profile-index?   profile-index-range
> >
> > You can define a status leaf under pot-profile-list to indicate the
> activation
> > status.
>
> ...FB: Very doable - especially since the open source implementation in V=
PP
> also only uses and active and a standby profile.

[Med] Great. Thanks.

> >
> > (5) Any reason why are you using version 1? If not, please update to
> "1.1"
>
> ...FB: Nothing specific. The model got defined (and implemented as part of
> OpenDaylight) back in 2016.
>

[Med] Then, please update the module to use 1.1.

> >
> > (6) As your groupings are called only once, and unless you want to defi=
ne
> them
> > as reusable by other modules, you may just define those as part of the
> main
> > container.
>
> ...FB: We could consider doing so. The reason why we kept the model fairly
> stable so far was that there is an existing implementation in open source
> (Opendaylight), hence the preference to not change things unless there is=
 a
> real need. Would you be ok to stay with the current structure?
>

[Med] Fair enough.

> >
> > (7) IANA Section should be updated as follows:
> >
> > OLD:
> >    This document does not require any actions from IANA.
> >
> > NEW:
> >
> >    IANA is requested to register the following URI in the "ns"
> subregistry within
> >    the "IETF XML Registry" [RFC3688]:
> >
> >       URI:  urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile
> >       Registrant Contact:  The IESG.
> >       XML:  N/A; the requested URI is an XML namespace.
> >
> >    IANA is requested to register the following YANG module in the "YANG
> Module
> >    Names" subregistry [RFC7950] within the "YANG Parameters" registry.
> >
> >       Name:  ietf-pot-profile
> >       Maintained by IANA:  N
> >       Namespace:  urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile
> >       Prefix:  ietf-pot-profile
> >       Reference:  RFC XXXX
> >
> > (7) You should update the Security Section as per
> > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guideline.
>
> ...FB: ACK on both points above.
> >
> > And a more general note:
> >
> > =3D=3D
> >    Several deployments use Traffic Engineering, policy routing, Segment
> >    Routing (SR), and Service Function Chaining (SFC) [RFC7665] to steer
> >    packets through a specific set of nodes.  In certain cases,
> >    regulatory obligations or a compliance policy require operators to
> >    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >    prove that all packets that are supposed to follow a specific path
> >    are indeed being forwarded across and exact set of pre-determined
> >    nodes.
> > =3D=3D
> >
> > Do you have pointers to such regulatory obligations? It would be good to
> add a
> > pointer if you are aware of any. Thanks.
>
> ...FB: One of the co-authors and initiators of POT, Stephen, might have
> more specific references available.
> From what I know, there are company policies that require path
> verification. In case we don't find a formal reference, we'll change the
> statement in the next revision and avoid mentioning "regulatory
> obligations".
>

[Med] Looks like a good plan.

>
> >
> > Hope this helps.
>
> Very helpful indeed. Thanks again.
>
> Cheers, Frank
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Med
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>] D=
e la part de Joel M. Halpern
> > > Envoy=E9 : mardi 16 juin 2020 15:42 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@iet=
f.org> Objet : Re: [sfc]
> > > IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
> > >
> > > The chairs are starting the WG last call for
> > > draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please reply explicitly whether you
> > > think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a
> > > Experimental RFC.
> > > As noted below, the call runs through June 30.
> > >
> > > Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > > Joel (& Jim)
> > >
> > > On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been
> > > > changed to
> > > "In
> > > > WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
> > > >
> > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> > > >
> > > > Comment:
> > > > This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sfc mailing list
> > > sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >





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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Steve,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thank you for sharing this pointer. Much app=
reciated.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m missing something, =
but I don&#8217;t quite see how this is related to proof of transit.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">Can you please clarify? Thank you.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Youe=
ll, Stephen [mailto:stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com]
<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> jeudi 25 juin 2020 15:30<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>; 'Frank Brockners (fbrockne)'; 'draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org'=
<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> 'Joel M. Halpern'; 'sfc@ietf.org'; 'Srihari Raghavan (srih=
ari)'<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> RE: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proo=
f-of-transit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Med,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Responding on the referen=
ce question you had for &#8220;regulatory requirements&#8221; I would sugge=
st:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">[PCI-DSS] &#8220;Payment Card Industry (PCI)=
 Data Security Standard&#8221;,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/documents/P=
CI_DSS_v3-2-1.pdf">https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/documents/PCI_DSS_v=
3-2-1.pdf</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">More specifically it is r=
equirement 1 which I have taken the pertinent text from below:<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Page 20: Build and Mainta=
in a Secure Network and Systems<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Requirement 1: Install an=
d maintain a firewall configuration to protect cardholder data<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Requirement 1.1.1: A form=
al process for approving and testing all network connections and changes to=
 the firewall and router configurations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Testing procedure:<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Examine documented procedures to verify t=
here is a formal process for testing and approval of all: &#8226; Network c=
onnections and &#8226; Changes to firewall and router configurations<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">For a sample of network connections, inte=
rview responsible personnel and examine records to verify that network conn=
ections were approved and tested.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Guidance: A documented an=
d implemented process for approving and testing all connections and changes=
 to the firewalls and routers will help prevent security
 problems caused by misconfiguration of the network, router, or firewall. W=
ithout formal approval and testing of changes, records of the changes might=
 not be updated, which could lead to inconsistencies between network docume=
ntation and the actual configuration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Steve<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.co=
m</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.bouca=
dair@orange.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 24, 2020 5:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne@cisco.=
com">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org">draft-ietf-sfc-=
proof-of-transit@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com">jmh@j=
oelhalpern.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a>; Srihari Raghavan (srihari=
) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:srihari@cisco.com">srihari@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Youel=
l, Stephen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com">stephen.youel=
l@jpmorgan.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of=
-transit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:5.25pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Hi&nbsp;Franck,&nbsp;<b=
r>
<br>
Thanks&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;follow-up.<br>
<br>
Please&nbsp;see&nbsp;inline.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Med<br>
<br>
&gt;&nbsp;-----Message&nbsp;d'origine-----<br>
&gt;&nbsp;De&nbsp;:&nbsp;Frank&nbsp;Brockners&nbsp;(fbrockne)&nbsp;[mailto:=
<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>]<br>
&gt;&nbsp;Envoy=E9&nbsp;:&nbsp;mercredi&nbsp;24&nbsp;juin&nbsp;2020&nbsp;18=
:12<br>
&gt;&nbsp;=C0&nbsp;:&nbsp;BOUCADAIR&nbsp;Mohamed&nbsp;TGI/OLN;&nbsp;<a href=
=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org">draft-ietf-sfc-proof-o=
f-transit@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&nbsp;Cc&nbsp;:&nbsp;Joel&nbsp;M.&nbsp;Halpern;&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:=
sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a>;&nbsp;Srihari&nbsp;Raghavan&nbsp;(srihari);<=
br>
&gt;&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com">stephen.youell@jpm=
organ.com</a><br>
&gt;&nbsp;Objet&nbsp;:&nbsp;RE:&nbsp;[sfc]&nbsp;IETF&nbsp;WG&nbsp;state&nbs=
p;changed&nbsp;for&nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;Hi&nbsp;Med,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;Thanks&nbsp;a&nbsp;lot&nbsp;for&nbsp;your&nbsp;comments.&nbsp;Ple=
ase&nbsp;see&nbsp;inline&nbsp;(...FB)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;-----Original&nbsp;Message-----<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;From:&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.c=
om">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.bou=
cadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Sent:&nbsp;Freitag,&nbsp;19.&nbsp;Juni&nbsp;2020&nbsp;0=
8:36<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;To:&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-tran=
sit@ietf.org">draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Cc:&nbsp;Joel&nbsp;M.&nbsp;Halpern&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;;&nbsp;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Subject:&nbsp;RE:&nbsp;[sfc]&nbsp;IETF&nbsp;WG&nbsp;sta=
te&nbsp;changed&nbsp;for&nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-<br>
&gt;&nbsp;transit<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Hi&nbsp;Franck,&nbsp;all,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;I&nbsp;know&nbsp;that&nbsp;you&nbsp;are&nbsp;working&nb=
sp;on&nbsp;this&nbsp;since&nbsp;a&nbsp;while.&nbsp;Please&nbsp;find&nbsp;be=
low&nbsp;some<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;comments&nbsp;on&nbsp;the&nbsp;YANG&nbsp;part&nbsp;to&n=
bsp;hopefully&nbsp;save&nbsp;you&nbsp;some&nbsp;cycles&nbsp;during<br>
&gt;&nbsp;upcoming<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;reviews:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;(1)&nbsp;Remove&nbsp;&quot;?&quot;&nbsp;from&nbsp;the&n=
bsp;explanation&nbsp;text&nbsp;in&nbsp;Section&nbsp;5.2.1<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;...FB:&nbsp;Will&nbsp;do.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;(2)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;OLD:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;The&nbsp;meaning&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;symbols&nbsp;in&=
nbsp;these&nbsp;diagrams&nbsp;is<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;as&nbsp;follows:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o&nbsp;&nbsp;Brackets&nbsp;&quot;[&qu=
ot;&nbsp;and&nbsp;&quot;]&quot;&nbsp;enclose&nbsp;list&nbsp;keys.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o&nbsp;&nbsp;Abbreviations&nbsp;befor=
e&nbsp;data&nbsp;node&nbsp;names:&nbsp;&quot;rw&quot;&nbsp;means&nbsp;confi=
guration<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(read-write),&nbsp;=
and&nbsp;&quot;ro&quot;&nbsp;means&nbsp;state&nbsp;data&nbsp;(read-only).<b=
r>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o&nbsp;&nbsp;Symbols&nbsp;after&nbsp;=
data&nbsp;node&nbsp;names:&nbsp;&quot;?&quot;&nbsp;means&nbsp;an&nbsp;optio=
nal&nbsp;node,&nbsp;&quot;!&quot;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;means&nbsp;a&nbsp;p=
resence&nbsp;container,&nbsp;and&nbsp;&quot;*&quot;&nbsp;denotes&nbsp;a&nbs=
p;list&nbsp;and&nbsp;leaf-list.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o&nbsp;&nbsp;Parentheses&nbsp;enclose=
&nbsp;choice&nbsp;and&nbsp;case&nbsp;nodes,&nbsp;and&nbsp;case&nbsp;nodes&n=
bsp;are&nbsp;also<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;marked&nbsp;with&nb=
sp;a&nbsp;colon&nbsp;(&quot;:&quot;).<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o&nbsp;&nbsp;Ellipsis&nbsp;(&quot;...=
&quot;)&nbsp;stands&nbsp;for&nbsp;contents&nbsp;of&nbsp;subtrees&nbsp;that&=
nbsp;are&nbsp;not<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;shown.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;NEW:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The&nbsp;meaning&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;symb=
ols&nbsp;in&nbsp;YANG&nbsp;tree&nbsp;diagrams&nbsp;is&nbsp;defined&nbsp;in<=
br>
&gt;&nbsp;[RFC8340].<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;...FB:&nbsp;Good&nbsp;point.&nbsp;We&nbsp;can&nbsp;indeed&nbsp;ge=
t&nbsp;rid&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;legacy&nbsp;text&nbsp;and&nbsp;refer&nbsp;=
to<br>
&gt;&nbsp;RFC8340.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;(3)&nbsp;Remove&nbsp;&lt;CODE&nbsp;BEGINS&gt;&nbsp;and&=
nbsp;&lt;CODE&nbsp;ENDS&gt;&nbsp;from&nbsp;the&nbsp;tree&nbsp;diagram<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;...FB:&nbsp;Will&nbsp;do.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;(4)&nbsp;Instead&nbsp;of:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&#43;--rw&nbsp;active-profile-index?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;profile-in=
dex-range<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;You&nbsp;can&nbsp;define&nbsp;a&nbsp;status&nbsp;leaf&n=
bsp;under&nbsp;pot-profile-list&nbsp;to&nbsp;indicate&nbsp;the<br>
&gt;&nbsp;activation<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;status.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;...FB:&nbsp;Very&nbsp;doable&nbsp;-&nbsp;especially&nbsp;since&nb=
sp;the&nbsp;open&nbsp;source&nbsp;implementation&nbsp;in&nbsp;VPP<br>
&gt;&nbsp;also&nbsp;only&nbsp;uses&nbsp;and&nbsp;active&nbsp;and&nbsp;a&nbs=
p;standby&nbsp;profile.<br>
<br>
[Med]&nbsp;Great.&nbsp;Thanks.<br>
<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;(5)&nbsp;Any&nbsp;reason&nbsp;why&nbsp;are&nbsp;you&nbs=
p;using&nbsp;version&nbsp;1?&nbsp;If&nbsp;not,&nbsp;please&nbsp;update&nbsp=
;to<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&quot;1.1&quot;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;...FB:&nbsp;Nothing&nbsp;specific.&nbsp;The&nbsp;model&nbsp;got&n=
bsp;defined&nbsp;(and&nbsp;implemented&nbsp;as&nbsp;part&nbsp;of<br>
&gt;&nbsp;OpenDaylight)&nbsp;back&nbsp;in&nbsp;2016.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
<br>
[Med]&nbsp;Then,&nbsp;please&nbsp;update&nbsp;the&nbsp;module&nbsp;to&nbsp;=
use&nbsp;1.1.<br>
<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;(6)&nbsp;As&nbsp;your&nbsp;groupings&nbsp;are&nbsp;call=
ed&nbsp;only&nbsp;once,&nbsp;and&nbsp;unless&nbsp;you&nbsp;want&nbsp;to&nbs=
p;define<br>
&gt;&nbsp;them<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;as&nbsp;reusable&nbsp;by&nbsp;other&nbsp;modules,&nbsp;=
you&nbsp;may&nbsp;just&nbsp;define&nbsp;those&nbsp;as&nbsp;part&nbsp;of&nbs=
p;the<br>
&gt;&nbsp;main<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;container.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;...FB:&nbsp;We&nbsp;could&nbsp;consider&nbsp;doing&nbsp;so.&nbsp;=
The&nbsp;reason&nbsp;why&nbsp;we&nbsp;kept&nbsp;the&nbsp;model&nbsp;fairly<=
br>
&gt;&nbsp;stable&nbsp;so&nbsp;far&nbsp;was&nbsp;that&nbsp;there&nbsp;is&nbs=
p;an&nbsp;existing&nbsp;implementation&nbsp;in&nbsp;open&nbsp;source<br>
&gt;&nbsp;(Opendaylight),&nbsp;hence&nbsp;the&nbsp;preference&nbsp;to&nbsp;=
not&nbsp;change&nbsp;things&nbsp;unless&nbsp;there&nbsp;is&nbsp;a<br>
&gt;&nbsp;real&nbsp;need.&nbsp;Would&nbsp;you&nbsp;be&nbsp;ok&nbsp;to&nbsp;=
stay&nbsp;with&nbsp;the&nbsp;current&nbsp;structure?<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
<br>
[Med]&nbsp;Fair&nbsp;enough.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;(7)&nbsp;IANA&nbsp;Section&nbsp;should&nbsp;be&nbsp;upd=
ated&nbsp;as&nbsp;follows:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;OLD:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This&nbsp;document&nbsp;does&nbsp;not=
&nbsp;require&nbsp;any&nbsp;actions&nbsp;from&nbsp;IANA.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;NEW:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;IANA&nbsp;is&nbsp;requested&nbsp;to&n=
bsp;register&nbsp;the&nbsp;following&nbsp;URI&nbsp;in&nbsp;the&nbsp;&quot;n=
s&quot;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;subregistry&nbsp;within<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the&nbsp;&quot;IETF&nbsp;XML&nbsp;Reg=
istry&quot;&nbsp;[RFC3688]:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;URI:&nbsp;&nbsp;urn=
:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Registrant&nbsp;Con=
tact:&nbsp;&nbsp;The&nbsp;IESG.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;XML:&nbsp;&nbsp;N/A=
;&nbsp;the&nbsp;requested&nbsp;URI&nbsp;is&nbsp;an&nbsp;XML&nbsp;namespace.=
<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;IANA&nbsp;is&nbsp;requested&nbsp;to&n=
bsp;register&nbsp;the&nbsp;following&nbsp;YANG&nbsp;module&nbsp;in&nbsp;the=
&nbsp;&quot;YANG<br>
&gt;&nbsp;Module<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Names&quot;&nbsp;subregistry&nbsp;[RF=
C7950]&nbsp;within&nbsp;the&nbsp;&quot;YANG&nbsp;Parameters&quot;&nbsp;regi=
stry.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;ie=
tf-pot-profile<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Maintained&nbsp;by&=
nbsp;IANA:&nbsp;&nbsp;N<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Namespace:&nbsp;&nb=
sp;urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-pot-profile<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Prefix:&nbsp;&nbsp;=
ietf-pot-profile<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reference:&nbsp;&nb=
sp;RFC&nbsp;XXXX<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;(7)&nbsp;You&nbsp;should&nbsp;update&nbsp;the&nbsp;Secu=
rity&nbsp;Section&nbsp;as&nbsp;per<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-sec=
urity-guideline">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelin=
e</a>.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;...FB:&nbsp;ACK&nbsp;on&nbsp;both&nbsp;points&nbsp;above.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;And&nbsp;a&nbsp;more&nbsp;general&nbsp;note:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;=3D=3D<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Several&nbsp;deployments&nbsp;use&nbs=
p;Traffic&nbsp;Engineering,&nbsp;policy&nbsp;routing,&nbsp;Segment<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Routing&nbsp;(SR),&nbsp;and&nbsp;Serv=
ice&nbsp;Function&nbsp;Chaining&nbsp;(SFC)&nbsp;[RFC7665]&nbsp;to&nbsp;stee=
r<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets&nbsp;through&nbsp;a&nbsp;spec=
ific&nbsp;set&nbsp;of&nbsp;nodes.&nbsp;&nbsp;In&nbsp;certain&nbsp;cases,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;regulatory&nbsp;obligations&nbsp;or&n=
bsp;a&nbsp;compliance&nbsp;policy&nbsp;require&nbsp;operators&nbsp;to<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;prove&nbsp;that&nbsp;all&nbsp;packets=
&nbsp;that&nbsp;are&nbsp;supposed&nbsp;to&nbsp;follow&nbsp;a&nbsp;specific&=
nbsp;path<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;are&nbsp;indeed&nbsp;being&nbsp;forwa=
rded&nbsp;across&nbsp;and&nbsp;exact&nbsp;set&nbsp;of&nbsp;pre-determined<b=
r>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;nodes.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;=3D=3D<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Do&nbsp;you&nbsp;have&nbsp;pointers&nbsp;to&nbsp;such&n=
bsp;regulatory&nbsp;obligations?&nbsp;It&nbsp;would&nbsp;be&nbsp;good&nbsp;=
to<br>
&gt;&nbsp;add&nbsp;a<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;pointer&nbsp;if&nbsp;you&nbsp;are&nbsp;aware&nbsp;of&nb=
sp;any.&nbsp;Thanks.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;...FB:&nbsp;One&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;co-authors&nbsp;and&nbsp;in=
itiators&nbsp;of&nbsp;POT,&nbsp;Stephen,&nbsp;might&nbsp;have<br>
&gt;&nbsp;more&nbsp;specific&nbsp;references&nbsp;available.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;From&nbsp;what&nbsp;I&nbsp;know,&nbsp;there&nbsp;are&nbsp;company=
&nbsp;policies&nbsp;that&nbsp;require&nbsp;path<br>
&gt;&nbsp;verification.&nbsp;In&nbsp;case&nbsp;we&nbsp;don't&nbsp;find&nbsp=
;a&nbsp;formal&nbsp;reference,&nbsp;we'll&nbsp;change&nbsp;the<br>
&gt;&nbsp;statement&nbsp;in&nbsp;the&nbsp;next&nbsp;revision&nbsp;and&nbsp;=
avoid&nbsp;mentioning&nbsp;&quot;regulatory<br>
&gt;&nbsp;obligations&quot;.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
<br>
[Med]&nbsp;Looks&nbsp;like&nbsp;a&nbsp;good&nbsp;plan.<br>
<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Hope&nbsp;this&nbsp;helps.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;Very&nbsp;helpful&nbsp;indeed.&nbsp;Thanks&nbsp;again.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;Cheers,&nbsp;Frank<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Cheers,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Med<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;-----Message&nbsp;d'origine-----<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;De&nbsp;:&nbsp;sfc&nbsp;[mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]&nbsp;De&nbsp;la&nbsp;p=
art&nbsp;de&nbsp;Joel&nbsp;M.&nbsp;Halpern<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Envoy=E9&nbsp;:&nbsp;mardi&nbsp;16&nbsp;juin&=
nbsp;2020&nbsp;15:42&nbsp;=C0&nbsp;:&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">s=
fc@ietf.org</a>&nbsp;Objet&nbsp;:&nbsp;Re:&nbsp;[sfc]<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;IETF&nbsp;WG&nbsp;state&nbsp;changed&nbsp;for=
&nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;The&nbsp;chairs&nbsp;are&nbsp;starting&nbsp;t=
he&nbsp;WG&nbsp;last&nbsp;call&nbsp;for<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.&nbsp;&nbsp;P=
lease&nbsp;reply&nbsp;explicitly&nbsp;whether&nbsp;you<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;think&nbsp;this&nbsp;is&nbsp;ready&nbsp;to&nb=
sp;go&nbsp;to&nbsp;the&nbsp;IETF&nbsp;for&nbsp;publication&nbsp;as&nbsp;a<b=
r>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Experimental&nbsp;RFC.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;As&nbsp;noted&nbsp;below,&nbsp;the&nbsp;call&=
nbsp;runs&nbsp;through&nbsp;June&nbsp;30.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Note&nbsp;that&nbsp;silence&nbsp;does&nbsp;no=
t&nbsp;imply&nbsp;consent,&nbsp;so&nbsp;please&nbsp;speak&nbsp;up.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Yours,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Joel&nbsp;(&amp;&nbsp;Jim)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;On&nbsp;6/16/2020&nbsp;9:32&nbsp;AM,&nbsp;IET=
F&nbsp;Secretariat&nbsp;wrote:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;The&nbsp;IETF&nbsp;WG&nbsp;state&nb=
sp;of&nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit&nbsp;has&nbsp;been<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;changed&nbsp;to<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&quot;In<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;WG&nbsp;Last&nbsp;Call&quot;&nbsp;f=
rom&nbsp;&quot;WG&nbsp;Document&quot;&nbsp;by&nbsp;Joel&nbsp;Halpern:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/</a><br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;Comment:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;This&nbsp;starts&nbsp;WG&nbsp;last&=
nbsp;call&nbsp;for&nbsp;this&nbsp;document,&nbsp;ending&nbsp;June&nbsp;30.<=
br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;_____________________________________________=
__<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;sfc&nbsp;mailing&nbsp;list<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/sfc">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
&gt;&nbsp;&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/sMMwkjZ4rImW0mXLsoIltvggdjU>
Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Hi Frank,
=20
I have watched this draft progress over the past few years, and have =
always
been impressed with the efficiency of the solution.  Reading through the
draft again now, I agree that it is ready to progress as an experimental
RFC.   The only nit comments that I have match up to the ones which you =
have
been working with Med.  And those seem to be addressed now.
=20
Thanks,
Eric
=20
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Joel M. Halpern
> Envoy=E9 : mardi 16 juin 2020 15:42
> =C0 :  <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> sfc@ietf.org
> Objet : Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for
draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
>=20
> The chairs are starting the WG last call for
> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please reply explicitly whether you
> think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a =
Experimental
> RFC.
> As noted below, the call runs through June 30.
>=20
> Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.
>=20
> Yours,
> Joel (& Jim)
>=20
> On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
> >
> > The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been =
changed to
> "In
> > WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
> >
> >  <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> >
> > Comment:
> > This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
>  <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> sfc@ietf.org
>  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>Hi =
Frank,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>I have =
watched this draft progress over the past few years, and have always =
been impressed with the efficiency of the solution.=A0 Reading through =
the draft again now, I agree that it is ready to progress as an =
experimental RFC.=A0=A0 The only nit comments that I have match up to =
the ones which you have been working with Med.=A0 And those seem to be =
addressed now.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>Thanks,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>Eric<o:p></o=
:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
-----Message d'origine-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
De&nbsp;: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Joel M. =
Halpern<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
Envoy=E9&nbsp;: mardi 16 juin 2020 15:42<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
=C0&nbsp;: <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:#337AB7'>sfc@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p=
re style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
Objet&nbsp;: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for =
draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; The =
chairs are starting the WG last call for<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.=A0 Please reply explicitly whether =
you<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; think =
this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a =
Experimental<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
RFC.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; As =
noted below, the call runs through June 30.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; Note =
that silence does not imply consent, so please speak =
up.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
Yours,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; Joel =
(&amp; Jim)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; On =
6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; &gt; =
The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been changed =
to<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
&quot;In<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; &gt; =
WG Last Call&quot; from &quot;WG Document&quot; by Joel =
Halpern:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; &gt; =
<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/=
"><span =
style=3D'color:#337AB7'>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-p=
roof-of-transit/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; &gt; =
Comment:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; &gt; =
This starts WG last call for this document, ending June =
30.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p=
re style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; sfc =
mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:#337AB7'>sfc@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p=
re style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212529'>&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc"><span =
style=3D'color:#337AB7'>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</span><=
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From: "Diego R. Lopez" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 23:22:01 +0530
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Subject: Re: [sfc] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit
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Hi,

The document is in a good shape for publication as an Experimental
RFC. Just a few comments that can handled along the way -

- Abstract,  Add a sentence about the presence of a Yang model in this I-D
- Section 1, Add a reference when the Shamir's Secret Sharing on first use
Also you have it as a normative reference to a wiki page -

[SSS]      "Shamir's Secret Sharing",
              <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing>.

Isn't there a better reference for this which is archival in nature
and cant be modified easily?

- Section 2, Use the updated boilerplate for capitalized keywords -

      The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL
      NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED",
      "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as
      described in BCP 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they
      appear in all capitals, as shown here.

- Section 5, You include -

   This document does not
   define a specific protocol to be used between Controller and nodes.
   It only defines the procedures and the associated YANG data model.

That is true for all documents with yang models, any reason to be
explicit about it?

- Section 5.2.2, You should include this -

   A simplified graphical representation of the data model is used in
   this document.  The meaning of the symbols in these diagrams is
   defined in [RFC8340].

instead of repeating the tree notations.

- Section 5.2.3,
    o  Update the dates in the Yang model as well the year in the copyright
    o  Query: Should nacm be used in the Yang model for the secret leaves?

- Section 6
   o  Don't we need to update the IANA consideration for the Yang model?

- Section 7.8
   o  Needs to be enhancecd to also include yang related security as
per https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines

Thanks!
Dhruv


On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 7:12 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
>
> The chairs are starting the WG last call for
> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.  Please reply explicitly whether you
> think this is ready to go to the IETF for publication as a Experimental RFC.
> As noted below, the call runs through June 30.
>
> Note that silence does not imply consent, so please speak up.
>
> Yours,
> Joel (& Jim)
>
> On 6/16/2020 9:32 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:
> >
> > The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit has been changed to "In
> > WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> >
> > Comment:
> > This starts WG last call for this document, ending June 30.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Performance Measurement (PM) with Alternate Marking Method in Service Function Chaining (SFC) Domain
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Giuseppe Fioccola
                          Tal Mizrahi
	Filename        : draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2020-06-29

Abstract:
   This document describes how the alternate marking method can be used
   as the efficient performance measurement method taking advantage of
   the actual data flows in a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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--00000000000031ea4205a93f5985
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear All,
the updated version of the draft intends to address comments by Carlos
received during WG AP. Changes in this version are as follows:

   - changed track to Experimental
   - extended Introduction section with references to SFC OAM Framework and
   iOAM in SFC NSH documents
   - removed Double Marking section. We propose to allocate a one-bit flag
   and thus only Single Marking or Multiplexed Marking methods can be used in
   SFC NSH domain.
   - extended the Security Considerations section with the note that the
   number of concurrent flows monitored using AMM must be controlled on an SFC
   node.

Your questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome and greatly
appreciated.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 1:53 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10.txt
To: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>, Greg Mirsky <
gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm
Revision:       10
Title:          Performance Measurement (PM) with Alternate Marking Method
in Service Function Chaining (SFC) Domain
Document date:  2020-06-29
Group:          sfc
Pages:          8
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10

Abstract:
   This document describes how the alternate marking method can be used
   as the efficient performance measurement method taking advantage of
   the actual data flows in a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--00000000000031ea4205a93f5985
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>the updated version of the draft intends to =
address comments by Carlos received during WG AP. Changes in this version a=
re as follows:</div><div><ul><li>changed track to Experimental</li><li>exte=
nded Introduction section with references to SFC OAM Framework and iOAM in =
SFC NSH documents</li><li>removed Double Marking section. We propose to all=
ocate a one-bit flag and thus only Single Marking or Multiplexed Marking me=
thods can be=C2=A0used in SFC NSH domain.</li><li>extended the Security=C2=
=A0Considerations section with the note that the number of concurrent flows=
 monitored using AMM must be controlled on an SFC node.</li></ul><div>Your =
questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome and greatly appreciated.</=
div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message=
 ---------<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-draft=
s@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Mon, Jun 29, 2=
020 at 1:53 PM<br>Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-sfc-pm=
amm-10.txt<br>To: Giuseppe Fioccola &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giuseppe.fioccola=
@huawei.com">giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Tal Mizrah=
i &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A010<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Performance Measurement (PM) with =
Alternate Marking Method in Service Function Chaining (SFC) Domain<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-06-29<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 8<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10.=
txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-10</a><br=
>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes how the alternate marking method can b=
e used<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as the efficient performance measurement method taking advanta=
ge of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the actual data flows in a Service Function Chaining (SFC) dom=
ain.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></div>

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