From nobody Mon Mar 1 07:17:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EDDD3A1DD6 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 07:17:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cosmosoftware-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YUATIiuEG4HE for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 07:17:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x534.google.com (mail-ed1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::534]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AB853A1DD5 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 07:17:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x534.google.com with SMTP id f6so5441189edd.12 for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 07:17:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cosmosoftware-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uny65ILrlq19tqAeW3aGVgtSZRiwzPkccZmTu/DjgG4=; b=xkVegN+1o548JpsD2hbx88rq25iZtGwRBNqRJnMR1C1BKWDP9WuD6ShIxX+dzIQa1T A/IXxa9uv/QyRRlf2fOQCE+J8TY+9HHxF6hqWz0nu6T5mpcPZnW53KyWePY1UvJJ6uLu RceHzNen0/TqCsGKgi6EofgVHdbDeH6IZYGF/WSHjU8IXJRxxvQspPwjoTsfncKxjJmv lGXG+/wMNUfuSj2CLG/p/65MW5NTOPrBBZ3AUxRqGM31ambsquUPyoK6hYw39WANZuVb BR6CAtd7T2BRjW8O9VswqT3j+KF6CuL3/L+nKCAfF+WT4WjUfpJKbaCBO5SkpxL5ocQu KKZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uny65ILrlq19tqAeW3aGVgtSZRiwzPkccZmTu/DjgG4=; b=CNtxP8c+FH5vbZUjHd5uGp0DrdhufhG3xC3GTXHqQuqWwFtax5QMM5BacLPSaxhPWK LrqDoSLb3coK7qNB56ZMiCuA2IFSW5JkFRn9UE2uIBmssAW/1s2p1C0oa9/ipqGkYOkb jgaIxGBstczm+7ileW+2RIwvEISXJKCTkdeIXgPWHLFMpzsEqvE+Gbij8YyPy6lBbUry HZCsCMeep3zTIga89CkEcfFQ5K6ur1W/92OZ1FYAvXV+bmNj4sgx2BxYdKiJ4oNKgoEY n6EYmgttLB6m2K9ZOk9FLF+dUvAxbioYdD+vO87zLKLxSEImjvhaL1Sh2ZYwSfcGAgMc sRKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530/pN69xeznf9L31A/o2wHdbbIougVQfV8G1ac82pWIvN3MTjUL VpzcQAtxIFGpjKv2LZQ3cdRIsTwvb/swUg9AC+p2SDVPWxnJ+VWy X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxXrZ1wEkQeMhepQlhA3G28RycFbotRtlA2PqJIrKDhOjAEkEQx3Y3txJoOXOddoOtPzJdKMLd6ZnCpF/JBF44= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:d7da:: with SMTP id e26mr10346387eds.269.1614611845558; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 07:17:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <27a24a63-b3bd-42dd-823d-7b3143fb8a3b@www.fastmail.com> <48139779-7192-42e5-8d7d-beea65982a6c@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <48139779-7192-42e5-8d7d-beea65982a6c@www.fastmail.com> From: Sergio Garcia Murillo Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 16:17:13 +0100 Message-ID: To: Martin Thomson Cc: sframe@ietf.org, Alexandre GOUAILLARD Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008140a105bc7b1d34" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] SFrame agenda for 110 X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 15:17:30 -0000 --0000000000008140a105bc7b1d34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Martin, We have submitted a draft regarding the agnostic packetization to be discussed in the avtcode meeting: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gouaillard-avtcore-codec-agn-rtp-payload Would be great to be able to present it here as well. I think that 15 minutes should be enough. Best regards Sergio On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 1:49 AM Martin Thomson wrote: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, at 18:36, Alexandre GOUAILLARD wrote: > > - A new draft has been submitted to AVTcore on the matter.I believe > > Sergio could present it. > > Maybe Sergio could start with a brief introduction of that work here as > well. I don't think that I'm subscribed to avtcore, so I completely missed > any mention of that. We might be able to find time for a presentation too. > > --0000000000008140a105bc7b1d34 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Martin,

We hav= e submitted a draft regarding the agnostic packetization to be discussed in= the avtcode meeting:

Would be great to be able to present it here as well. I think that 15 min= utes should be enough.

Best regards
Serg= io

On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 1:49 AM Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, at 18:36, Alexandre = GOUAILLARD wrote:
> - A new draft has been submitted to AVTcore on the matter.I believe > Sergio could present it.

Maybe Sergio could start with a brief introduction of that work here as wel= l.=C2=A0 I don't think that I'm subscribed to avtcore, so I complet= ely missed any mention of that.=C2=A0 We might be able to find time for a p= resentation too.

=C2=A0
=C2=A0
--0000000000008140a105bc7b1d34-- From nobody Tue Mar 2 06:37:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B5C3A1931 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2021 06:37:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cosmosoftware-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNjL1hORGSWh for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2021 06:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x52b.google.com (mail-pg1-x52b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E4A23A192F for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2021 06:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id o38so13911861pgm.9 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2021 06:36:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cosmosoftware-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IKl0kwwYHjf4BXtUj9Nk2jBTHXOWP4iWLFyXWr4dcus=; b=RRqd/uJn3MxVQvXTsyQplVSYT/2GAxgo0+NLAtV72lmghMzfh5Ukw1o/Pf++ZuCkc+ 0NXNb536bsq10O49yDgFD5XIwa8QgwJcY5kE8LcYrNMOzYnwiXFQa7zcCYMtMuRCfaC7 0369dNV/+NueCEj0lYxxTT4Wmai/dB99p6yLD9rFRzVFpigQzLgJVw9YcNaONjRbCMjK /RLhi31cAQvoiUIg6Q21hjwDBlP7dpZkkSuZsiI2Y78qL1dwW3PLHHxvE1uBfsBAGhXI Q0AUP8d2ssXTq4Sth+gqUfR8grUY65N3/fempNpSZxCjWZpfriikTiICooQnVw/RPGDf ADag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IKl0kwwYHjf4BXtUj9Nk2jBTHXOWP4iWLFyXWr4dcus=; b=eikAx4I0MSMzJDDfZit4WGgedruSnM4HUPrRnfVpaTg1rmX/wxODOxXHkPqmtOxigK LrW4GapaRJyKU7VaHT8Ufx1nf6o+U8D4oMweBorRGBDhXyGelilrCd7sT7x5Zj8Ty2xF UygxWB9dTLj9r2OvfcPxsBBMRPvVyjf6AuFJQ67aeqXQHbXJ1QI7NisWQsobBaNCIR/i ztUeQhmKpXl60xJ4kEjJ3FBX3+UXBqk/VV1wli6bmU/GVdvkq4hX9b/mbfZRkYkzLhf/ UIsTA7Ap0cbtjEy9ZMEsz24hFgHPpsBmbg9y9uii2rN5DCQ+9hxiKP0F19mZUL4mESOt il9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532n+p3Yu7LbCiWFxEHF259S6KU0sAyGX9IZ3EImXSuUT84m9pDb LX6LG2BrShHZ/E7MI6xyptAoAbMSGTWcu4tTdqXNPQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyAQwSb5Q8za4VRGazmKArGHHDrggxGTyzuIZFAzcGeZ+2yH4ANGA6LGZlR9SPs7DZ3lVeNs5pISmKmBe7cHBQ= X-Received: by 2002:a63:4523:: with SMTP id s35mr18495078pga.263.1614695793106; Tue, 02 Mar 2021 06:36:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <27a24a63-b3bd-42dd-823d-7b3143fb8a3b@www.fastmail.com> <48139779-7192-42e5-8d7d-beea65982a6c@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Alexandre GOUAILLARD Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2021 22:36:21 +0800 Message-ID: To: Sergio Garcia Murillo Cc: Martin Thomson , sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002b3ad105bc8ea999" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] SFrame agenda for 110 X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2021 14:37:14 -0000 --0000000000002b3ad105bc8ea999 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I think 10 mn is enough for me. On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 11:17 PM Sergio Garcia Murillo < sergio.garcia.murillo@cosmosoftware.io> wrote: > Hi Martin, > > We have submitted a draft regarding the agnostic packetization to be > discussed in the avtcode meeting: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gouaillard-avtcore-codec-agn-rtp-payload > > Would be great to be able to present it here as well. I think that 15 > minutes should be enough. > > Best regards > Sergio > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 1:49 AM Martin Thomson wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, at 18:36, Alexandre GOUAILLARD wrote: >> > - A new draft has been submitted to AVTcore on the matter.I believe >> > Sergio could present it. >> >> Maybe Sergio could start with a brief introduction of that work here as >> well. I don't think that I'm subscribed to avtcore, so I completely missed >> any mention of that. We might be able to find time for a presentation too. >> >> > > --0000000000002b3ad105bc8ea999 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think 10 mn is enough for me.

On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 11:1= 7 PM Sergio Garcia Murillo <sergio.garcia.murillo@cosmosoftware.io> wrote:
Hi Martin,

We have submitted a draft regarding the agnostic packetization= to be discussed in the avtcode meeting:

Would be great to be able to present= it here as well. I think that 15 minutes should be enough.

<= /div>
Best regards
Sergio

On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 1:49 AM Mart= in Thomson <mt@lo= wentropy.net> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 25, 2021,= at 18:36, Alexandre GOUAILLARD wrote:
> - A new draft has been submitted to AVTcore on the matter.I believe > Sergio could present it.

Maybe Sergio could start with a brief introduction of that work here as wel= l.=C2=A0 I don't think that I'm subscribed to avtcore, so I complet= ely missed any mention of that.=C2=A0 We might be able to find time for a p= resentation too.

=C2=A0
=C2=A0
--0000000000002b3ad105bc8ea999-- From nobody Wed Mar 3 16:04:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41ED43A0A29 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2021 16:04:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=Vf32UYCK; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=o7/mder/ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GubQrXuWpO64 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2021 16:04:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B795E3A0A2D for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2021 16:04:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C515C0121 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2021 19:04:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap10 ([10.202.2.60]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 03 Mar 2021 19:04:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:date:from:to:subject:content-type; s= fm1; bh=svI1p4sMqi4Bk6Rf4cU/ZB267qJ0dJo9Nxqn/twd7qU=; b=Vf32UYCK xIiOTPc8D2ZtJzZyHLMtkZEvOp4q+f+9ZB1Ye30gxjxtuepyq7ICXwtI7PoI3Z4r 9Mje6zR2DL1NeSEPRUObKED2CsCqDSyFP5OpN2ZpCnGrhCEk31myxaP07N50dkjz ATTJ1TCr+vAEjjGhJ5KSBXFubufB1FYc4iSE8GV549I2QRWhDZ5sfVVxuUgZgQ8p k5rzwtZ2CVwbuVnOsv3MdOs3a4+2mSKSfnaIc4zfp9MUZYCWCJuqy8bBD9UB979e m4WggwDJdrDKjLv36gf3FjBMSJ1sS3sk9tpAL0AO831sVe8RK2VNsekYfokt8KWW K9ljaUZ6JPnK9Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=svI1p4sMqi4Bk6Rf4cU/ZB267qJ0d Jo9Nxqn/twd7qU=; b=o7/mder/7CpNud6OUdq3EeLQ8fd1zytxw/4dRlX6RUE1k sRy+7huc2j/6XiHPohQlIZ7nwNYYNh8aLWGYDDW49Wb0YS15HYnUG5HpJHpcE0Rv 5Ileu+EchmiVyDr8DjHFWvdUtE6Er7apS0KCKQoKW7YGWaJ8fRWIfwNRw/i0VBHd Om7r8rmb3zb6eG1iyAu7RSKv7leEOzRUTti9dLUVvEwVQiO3nQzVszfe7fMb83uO 8rd9E7n3gtMvPGpQXS1uMTIF/46yWs6EIb+2kIXV8BV4KQxi9W/IiQF/g9ukWDa4 KagwxLqWNaZBu7/TEHd6z9YTAhJLC1XScMQpUiu+A== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledruddtfedgudegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfffhffvufgtsehttdertd erredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgrrhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhhofigv nhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeefkedtvdffjeehffdvffegfe ejjedufeegfffftdegffekjeegfedvheduveektdenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdho rhhgpdhgihhthhhusgdrtghomhdpmhgvvghtvggthhhordgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrh fuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhtsehlohifvghnthhrohhp hidrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8269D4E07FC; Wed, 3 Mar 2021 19:04:11 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-206-g078a48fda5-fm-20210226.001-g078a48fd Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3e8c2838-1f4e-48fd-bcf0-08ce3847b25e@www.fastmail.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2021 11:03:52 +1100 From: "Martin Thomson" To: sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [Sframe] Agenda for SFrame meeting next Tuesday X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:04:14 -0000 Hey everyone, I've just uploaded a draft agenda. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-110-sframe/ (copied below) If you are on the agenda, please send slides (mail to chairs or proposals in datatracker or pull requests to https://github.com/sframe-wg/wg-materials are all OK). Don't delay (like your chair). No slides before Monday could mean no agenda time. We're also looking for someone to volunteer their scribing services. Please contact the chair. (We don't need a jabber scribe, thanks. No evading responsibility that way.) # SFrame Working Group The SFrame Working Group is meeting at IETF 110. ## Meeting Details Tuesday Session II (15:30-16:30 UTC+1, 14:30-15:30 UTC) Chairs: Bobo Bose-Kolanu, Martin Thomson * [Minutes](https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-110-sframe) * [Chat](xmpp:sframe@jabber.ietf.org?join) * [Video Stream](https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf110/?group=sframe&short=&item=1) * [Calendar](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/session/28715.ics) * [Materials](https://github.com/sframe-wg/wg-materials) ## Agenda welcome, administrivia, agenda 10 chairs Use cases, scope 10 Tim Panton The big picture 10 Dr. Alex Gouaillard [draft-gouaillard-avtcore-codec-agn-rtp-payload](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gouaillard-avtcore-codec-agn-rtp-payload) 15 Sergio Garcia Murillo MLS Integration 10 Richard Barnes ## Drafts * [draft-gouaillard-avtcore-codec-agn-rtp-payload](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gouaillard-avtcore-codec-agn-rtp-payload) * [draft-omara-sframe](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-omara-sframe-00) * [draft-barnes-sframe-mls](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-barnes-sframe-mls-00) ## Recommended Reading * [RFC 8558](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8558) From nobody Tue Mar 9 07:43:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42B93A1069 for ; 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Tue, 9 Mar 2021 10:43:04 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-206-g078a48fda5-fm-20210226.001-g078a48fd Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <5020fccf-bd73-47a3-bf97-3cab59e984f1@www.fastmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2021 02:42:44 +1100 From: "Martin Thomson" To: sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [Sframe] Minutes up X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2021 15:43:08 -0000 Here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/minutes-110-sframe-00 and Here: https://sframe-wg.github.io/wg-materials/ietf110/minutes.html Pull requests gratefully accepted for corrections here: https://github.com/sframe-wg/wg-materials Thanks again to Watson Ladd for recording some notes. From nobody Thu Mar 18 15:16:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 141BA3A0BBA for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:16:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 41BOW4JdtUi6 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFAD93A0BB8 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com with SMTP id u3so4190712ybk.6 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:16:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=u5SO4lsFskJ32GXmaK9Nzacg0Jsa8FMmXnPs+4/quvA=; b=fe2c9KdIOr9PboicK3Yl8B/lNYRD/62nDU4EKn9zstTTRE5TAd6uZiA/uqSzwWqace bwqT04rqmzVfPbNqmhN4lEn8qq6JTXDI8FQxOprFXgj7kWnkq11XXj4YbhWIuaQPwUni Bql2GVN6P77q+OGaaZGDb8hcbWAA6+xwukB3bzDeYoP9VrsagpJSc+iBpgGJK4F2XOqu ioMqv9UEmnBZJYFp8+vUc77Mk6kgh7YjJ1ZP2jyfqZq/7AIuTKu5nT3Tn/pGAOriGF/B vr2eE50IkZlCkWXSJ/L9XzQJNbaLApiQHH2iXCO7sAFDE8PW1iByz6+xF8/V8yypATyO 6i8g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=u5SO4lsFskJ32GXmaK9Nzacg0Jsa8FMmXnPs+4/quvA=; b=Oj9eaIseMclPdXIrKccL54O5QQz2iFZR3yTIJLqZCbTw7nlGMabP5G0U3lywgkOsbD aOBjjJ65qvrYfcfFK/FRM2cNfOS+vpcwlSv1OCbnnI9329hpDbLpPQhIEpCgTpnUhWjd PsmEYHmx2GolXlq3zOAAD/z1eIkOYWzCg+yEJcQN2RtVajnSWriZRo8zUzSs3ZDg9SAd z13XwsGr0HJ6ydCH8/jrVkJfTrVU09omNPdatBxtAOYUB0Evp67vyLJ9m1CgvHX9qqhW 71huYgEEwPwPLBcxjjq7n1f76oc2cHAAyYg8pU/xGLmBAoMJBc5ku7wvlGYPkhI58rHo OUog== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531n5OTajN2lHIetYhpwEiTEs1CmKdmwksa8zZTUzLkEbesMWbyF 2WLCoLOE+EiSRQOBGfs8KjHKD/g1+7uE2DwwRAO+VtTcgqQj99Fy X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyJjnDUhWWW6PRTHs2P5Qq99pZQE4jUf50WcR4EcG0Fudr2gD8GUWBZYxAg96EnhWqneNllPU9vyfx1/T/Dqxo= X-Received: by 2002:a25:3802:: with SMTP id f2mr2270058yba.48.1616105759310; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:15:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Justin Uberti Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:15:46 -0700 Message-ID: To: Sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b4834805bdd6f1c7" Archived-At: Subject: [Sframe] SFrame signatures X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 22:16:10 -0000 --000000000000b4834805bdd6f1c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" In recent discussions regarding signatures for SFrame we have questioned the usefulness of this feature and considered removing it. Upon looking closer into the details here, we have also determined more work would be required to properly specify it. Given this, the authoring team would like to officially propose removing the signature feature from the specification. If you are using SFrame signatures in your application and disagree with this direction, please let us know by the end of next week (Friday, March 26). Justin --000000000000b4834805bdd6f1c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In recent discussions regarding signatures for SFrame= we have questioned the usefulness of this feature and considered removing = it. Upon looking closer into the details here, we have also determined more= work would be required to properly specify it.

Given thi= s, the authoring team would like to officially propose removing the signatu= re feature from the specification. If you are using SFrame signatures in yo= ur application and disagree with this direction, please let us know by the = end of next week (Friday, March 26).

Justin
--000000000000b4834805bdd6f1c7-- From nobody Thu Mar 18 20:28:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C8F3A0D93 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:28:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bSPzaq0Jmu1p for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp87.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (smtp87.ord1c.emailsrvr.com [108.166.43.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4F9E3A0D95 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:28:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Auth-ID: fluffy@iii.ca Received: by smtp19.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: fluffy-AT-iii.ca) with ESMTPSA id 12D98A00D1; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 23:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Cullen Jennings In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 21:28:20 -0600 Cc: Sframe@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Justin Uberti X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Classification-ID: 3850e70b-5b0d-4322-b233-5f634c8a7f28-1-1 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] SFrame signatures X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 03:28:27 -0000 Could you say a bit more about the issue is with signing? I wonder how = much the issue is the complexity of trying to get teh bandwidth savings = of signing across multiple frames vs just doing a single frame.=20 There are a few uses that is think is fairly common which drive the = need for something like signing. Imagine you have a bot listening to the = call to do real time transcription and translation of the call. It would = be nice to give that bot read access to the media but not write access = to contribute media. If the media is signed, this is fairly easy to do = by blocking the bots ability to contribute to the mix but it is not = clear how to do this without something like signing.=20 > On Mar 18, 2021, at 4:15 PM, Justin Uberti = wrote: >=20 > In recent discussions regarding signatures for SFrame we have = questioned the usefulness of this feature and considered removing it. = Upon looking closer into the details here, we have also determined more = work would be required to properly specify it. >=20 > Given this, the authoring team would like to officially propose = removing the signature feature from the specification. If you are using = SFrame signatures in your application and disagree with this direction, = please let us know by the end of next week (Friday, March 26). >=20 > Justin > --=20 > Sframe mailing list > Sframe@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe From nobody Fri Mar 19 06:41:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0CD3A13FD for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 06:41:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=wire-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MesdKJDcjuWM for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 06:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ej1-x634.google.com (mail-ej1-x634.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::634]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CAEE3A1400 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 06:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x634.google.com with SMTP id kt15so314419ejb.12 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 06:41:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wire-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=+epKqCC8fykqtdr6siU7TJC5reCCwJ50LYm2uVwGOWE=; b=aLcEslE6DNdCUt38wfckRqv5F9gIWblQ7Dx9FwvG2me986X8+xIZ/bQ4PrkiBiPaI3 cULI64DZKLVhGD96wR/KJYDnIQBSlX4IhMAt4UifJvAa8jWAeGsnWsIGrnUOKDfVJyCZ Pgn23Cx2yNRX8mCGm6t2SN6gdeuvmuBIXghlctzXlkUTMPNLXiq59xJ7Gi1PNBZhjZp7 o/46p0YNHU/cuwN7SxD5X+0i9HHnyCkZDXCiukygKHLyY5rV9mOuehYv63s3iInfCpgr xIVPmQ2bj2xRvnH/BuTA1F1DieEZ3Oyg0ZhBqp1SJh0w2FK04VtINPk1fXBJ5Kh5ycOh zPbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=+epKqCC8fykqtdr6siU7TJC5reCCwJ50LYm2uVwGOWE=; b=i5WDBY5/fiJwEJvadD79OMYIRdRh+rjWlHN5M722/ZQo76ZnFMZh3Ied4DF0mc3G6J oApdWqF85JrZlVMpy7Om/VljQzsFQmDNnXSVe63Yaf6FSv6mkt0RnIgKz2jZjjT1iZJL utPNOZ64zjAqQwSFwkTdTrMk4bTK/mjdB9KS5vrG9TPNdtqM8UDbfjjIxs/tLgQFjybZ e6u53MtZK+yPkGpdj5yayW0MVo7REwLi0WSds9VoNLjrd0ziplgMAFQoPDCGGpdbGbJz p76qctfTd8d56SwcMdhJ4IT4h6xxBXOpWs3bG4Dq4DH1scgu+KV8eWj13s5+0bH134Vm RLlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531fvPAzDrDA8s7blpryExNgdOXNMcdjl7fooWAvCfQxAXOOsEGG DchSFZSWjpqWU5ZXryC/Bnp/g1yl4g3vDQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxqUnARp3FSHxxHqP7IIu/hSJqtzGhSCI0V63i3a2JIZTaON3zBJevKxqMpwcRMvha1+vT9Xg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:4d96:: with SMTP id s22mr4396003eju.189.1616161290035; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 06:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rmbp.fritz.box ([37.49.18.137]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k12sm4150737edr.60.2021.03.19.06.41.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 19 Mar 2021 06:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Raphael Robert In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:41:27 +0100 Cc: Justin Uberti , Sframe@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <46D405D0-F143-4C2F-A629-F87DFB6D33D6@wire.com> References: To: Cullen Jennings X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] SFrame signatures X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:41:34 -0000 I for one disagree with just dropping the only mechanism that can = provide sender authentication without further discussion or an adequate = substitute. I=E2=80=99d also be interested to learn more about the = specifics here. I am well aware of the complexity of the topic, given that a) signatures = and verifications are somewhat expensive and b) packets might get = dropped. Nevertheless =E2=80=94 like Cullen said =E2=80=94 there are = scenarios where signatures are important. Raphael > On 19. Mar 2021, at 04:28, Cullen Jennings wrote: >=20 >=20 > Could you say a bit more about the issue is with signing? I wonder = how much the issue is the complexity of trying to get teh bandwidth = savings of signing across multiple frames vs just doing a single frame.=20= >=20 > There are a few uses that is think is fairly common which drive the = need for something like signing. Imagine you have a bot listening to the = call to do real time transcription and translation of the call. It would = be nice to give that bot read access to the media but not write access = to contribute media. If the media is signed, this is fairly easy to do = by blocking the bots ability to contribute to the mix but it is not = clear how to do this without something like signing.=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Mar 18, 2021, at 4:15 PM, Justin Uberti = wrote: >>=20 >> In recent discussions regarding signatures for SFrame we have = questioned the usefulness of this feature and considered removing it. = Upon looking closer into the details here, we have also determined more = work would be required to properly specify it. >>=20 >> Given this, the authoring team would like to officially propose = removing the signature feature from the specification. If you are using = SFrame signatures in your application and disagree with this direction, = please let us know by the end of next week (Friday, March 26). >>=20 >> Justin >> --=20 >> Sframe mailing list >> Sframe@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe >=20 > --=20 > Sframe mailing list > Sframe@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe From nobody Sun Mar 21 16:24:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE33B3A09E8 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2021 16:24:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=IuH91Wmf; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Ia7VAzs9 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cb-XypnGbqP7 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2021 16:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 664A83A09E7 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2021 16:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE255C0094 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2021 19:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap10 ([10.202.2.60]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 21 Mar 2021 19:24:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh=LPb13 VGbRoA3ZF7giZDa+VKWD3AhAUWtz6ycgcgVqHQ=; b=IuH91Wmft7tIue8941OnC 2G+KOjY1Q4ojx8yNYBjpiPxzJ+AtHsy3knqnyHu6JDGdfGpz6hQmQyeZAKi/2By8 GZY/LRrH3A1oKhc3el+9sQAy7gIdW/9F/W/3Lzsp75Im1bR+uLJ4gdQt+JwCgIGo dPwMPmQ6ldgZnPH60cXybzV+/WAaj2IVnandQgPlj6Og3yqZEsZCsj9WGrEzT3KZ PD+ZVp5MdJCLL5r7h/SfMshRswCIfKBxhtTpt8TUUi7AzLKLhTub+aS57DPpPdHm LlzFgAO9kheXCP30knfaHhic1s2KSalJDX3p8+brqZ8b3cOrkGLDkQXWpR1FEqGy A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=LPb13VGbRoA3ZF7giZDa+VKWD3AhAUWtz6ycgcgVq HQ=; b=Ia7VAzs96dNrzVQbsZR0QfcA4vowDmtcw1e/cmYXOEyQ7f8AUFI2tUejQ 1BbqzyY2xv4dHLWTWTu7P+EEww4JvSwCeJ17hQygTdfNeS8f2wpoXxcE+k9l8SJx EMjy05vI8vVkaa6VvtAkcv0t5HK9v8PjxfWtILfx4OOGnWwbByF+njS7Jdl9WhgH CcRKITIuK5OddnwkjpAA8s1a1NXFhP18pZoCo1doU1rip+zM4axWjAHT+W5nt1Dm mRsEJJ+4nrbSWdBHN9mEPo28223T2Aa89PLNmCv6cdFMJcj2nbm/DrC2BNr+f1UX SFOXwwGlYrCtRGAyaQzC9Efc3nNRw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudegfedguddtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtgfesth hqredtreerjeenucfhrhhomhepfdforghrthhinhcuvfhhohhmshhonhdfuceomhhtsehl ohifvghnthhrohhphidrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepffetgfevvdfhtdffhe ejudefhffhveehudefhffgleelteeifeegfefggfelhefgnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivght fhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhroh hmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9DB4B4E05F8; Sun, 21 Mar 2021 19:24:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-206-g078a48fda5-fm-20210226.001-g078a48fd Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <38afa7f3-b94f-465d-8614-bf03f5584566@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <46D405D0-F143-4C2F-A629-F87DFB6D33D6@wire.com> References: <46D405D0-F143-4C2F-A629-F87DFB6D33D6@wire.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:11 +1100 From: "Martin Thomson" To: sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] SFrame signatures X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 23:24:36 -0000 This was one of the issues that came up when we first met. One virtue of the draft not being adopted is that the team working on it= is free to make the choice without our permission. It is just a propos= al. I read the charter here as being flexible on this point. We can decide = whether signing is in scope or not. Clearly there are advantages to sig= ning. Would those who want signing be OK with the answer being that it = can be added later? On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, at 00:41, Raphael Robert wrote: > I for one disagree with just dropping the only mechanism that can=20 > provide sender authentication without further discussion or an adequat= e=20 > substitute. I=E2=80=99d also be interested to learn more about the spe= cifics=20 > here. >=20 > I am well aware of the complexity of the topic, given that a)=20 > signatures and verifications are somewhat expensive and b) packets=20 > might get dropped. Nevertheless =E2=80=94 like Cullen said =E2=80=94 t= here are=20 > scenarios where signatures are important. >=20 > Raphael >=20 >=20 > > On 19. Mar 2021, at 04:28, Cullen Jennings wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > > Could you say a bit more about the issue is with signing? I wonder = how much the issue is the complexity of trying to get teh bandwidth savi= ngs of signing across multiple frames vs just doing a single frame.=20 > >=20 > > There are a few uses that is think is fairly common which drive the= need for something like signing. Imagine you have a bot listening to th= e call to do real time transcription and translation of the call. It wou= ld be nice to give that bot read access to the media but not write acces= s to contribute media. If the media is signed, this is fairly easy to do= by blocking the bots ability to contribute to the mix but it is not cle= ar how to do this without something like signing.=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >> On Mar 18, 2021, at 4:15 PM, Justin Uberti wrote: > >>=20 > >> In recent discussions regarding signatures for SFrame we have quest= ioned the usefulness of this feature and considered removing it. Upon lo= oking closer into the details here, we have also determined more work wo= uld be required to properly specify it. > >>=20 > >> Given this, the authoring team would like to officially propose rem= oving the signature feature from the specification. If you are using SFr= ame signatures in your application and disagree with this direction, ple= ase let us know by the end of next week (Friday, March 26). > >>=20 > >> Justin > >> --=20 > >> Sframe mailing list > >> Sframe@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe > >=20 > > --=20 > > Sframe mailing list > > Sframe@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe >=20 > --=20 > Sframe mailing list > Sframe@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe > From saghul@sip-communicator.org Wed Mar 31 02:28:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D9A03A21A8 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 02:28:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.65 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.65 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=jitsi-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ydQuzSR0vUaW for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 02:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x331.google.com (mail-wm1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E03833A21C3 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 02:28:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x331.google.com with SMTP id n11-20020a05600c4f8bb029010e5cf86347so2114073wmq.1 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 02:28:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jitsi-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cgcWq5LDZn5KZiue8mpq85bk0OU7bYGvQ88Ts/u5UZw=; b=Pr1OZn/N5y7GT0BVLrDO5qUXo4i5BGbJ8tFUED1E5TJ7XdRq4U6v2guh+sHi43HiuT x6rgFoLM/l0/YPKDdnFBuMWD8i4ZIRkE3o3R3SJIVElAU1VERC16y/YXY9SVLztL+Hjx NHm9nKzc8SXll8I6ApwCcTSN4MxAYIGF84Lvrzz+7tgIT3FXzlepLg2UqAR7s5LpS/xQ xbBFZxhbtDIIDM47AR17UajbYjvGVAaQLRoQT6Lv74fK5ubQBeZZTadCQJShkmdk5hJb gOXof+xpaSRjKODv4A5ioZtY+EJJ4qzz7+rNSYKwb1i4uzQc+PYPLBHQcKzKU6zwdhjv y3DA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cgcWq5LDZn5KZiue8mpq85bk0OU7bYGvQ88Ts/u5UZw=; b=o0p9Tx0LUtlY9hhHNY3sOeqiSFqJdlgqNh6lfsclUSOgag6N/TmhJclXuxJp8kL6IU Wc4Z4aphfwLkEJqy7Fhb8KZ46LbedLj4jCUUxPQkxpb8x5IvvkWXlFUEJvFNsbDcntpv TooDZqy4TQ6uJBf83V7Q+7QYPq/EPwuPGipu54YQ0yFaQKoFn5lthlJGbUCZjZ2voD9M FtxjZ8q5MO85IlD/Ta+8zxasAXXwQgw/TTEAS5ZcpJh4iivQreyclME/sGlfAt/pBCVN mlBu0wtXVZpqUxwtsLZCDTczedH4P3wey9smewzc6DOdvpHWYs+xHZCM3E+oG+/yTf1L /zDA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53336QijBb4aKXzBsSax2vrHnpoD8MfFk/dTbP1/G/5Z4HAWQeWQ LfpnFLKUU8lSc2KJC+Wn5k1Vfj7aJKstc9N+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzXOZ/nP0wi7SJjFCvpmf/kY8d/t51iFWPLrRF/QkaUEsRckxquoa1lR92/SEPtmT+3acArfQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3515:: with SMTP id h21mr2303832wmq.35.1617182918758; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 02:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xray.local (a118231.upc-a.chello.nl. [62.163.118.231]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i17sm3305092wrp.77.2021.03.31.02.28.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 31 Mar 2021 02:28:38 -0700 (PDT) To: Justin Uberti , Sframe@ietf.org References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Sa=c3=bal_Ibarra_Corretg=c3=a9?= Message-ID: <36921b7e-2fe1-e636-4829-8117bad1467c@jitsi.org> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 11:28:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] SFrame signatures X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 11:33:05 -0000 On 18/03/2021 23:15, Justin Uberti wrote: > In recent discussions regarding signatures for SFrame we have questioned > the usefulness of this feature and considered removing it. Upon looking > closer into the details here, we have also determined more work would be > required to properly specify it. > > Given this, the authoring team would like to officially propose removing > the signature feature from the specification. If you are using SFrame > signatures in your application and disagree with this direction, please > let us know by the end of next week (Friday, March 26). > > Justin > Sorry for the delay responding. We do currently use signatures on Jitsi. We started by signing every frame and compromising on the overhead. The next step (currently in PR) was to sign multiple frames. Specifically, all keyframes, first frame from a new SSRC, and frame on which we needed to racthet are signed. I'll say I'm not happy with the complexity this introduces, and I agree the attack vector is weird (a user in a conference is using the key of another user in the conference). FWIW, Zoom deems this attack vector out of scope: """ Second, there are certain classes of attack and threats that we deem out of scope, including:In-meeting impersonation attacks:A malicious but otherwise authorized meetingparticipant colluding with a malicious server can masquerade as another authorizedmeeting participant. """ https://raw.githubusercontent.com/zoom/zoom-e2e-whitepaper/master/zoom_e2e.pdf - Section 1.3. I find myself agreeing here. I see the authentication section was removed in draft -02 and section 8.1 was added, nice to see that's explicit now. We'll most likely be removing signatures for the time being. Cheers, -- Saúl