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cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_90BC571C6BE74462ACE94AF01BE3245Aarrcuscom_-- From nobody Sun Dec 1 12:07:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6B7120108; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 12:07:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_ALL=0.8, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e0II76QFHO4i; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 12:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.ops-netman.net (relay.ops-netman.net [192.110.255.59]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B80FD120106; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 12:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.ops-netman.net (mailserver.ops-netman.net [199.168.90.119]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by relay.ops-netman.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4001A3C2525; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 20:07:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailserver.ops-netman.net.ops-netman.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ops-netman.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03FB03BB; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 20:07:03 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 20:07:02 +0000 Message-ID: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> From: Chris Morrow To: Randy Bush Cc: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Organization: Operations Network Management, Ltd. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 20:07:06 -0000 On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:17:08 +0000, > > Is there such a thing as non-deterministic policy? > > What does it mean to say that the outcome of applying > > one or a set of policies is that it results in > > a random AS being the origin AS? > > non-derministic != random > > in this case it is meant to refer to policy results which depend on > exogenous data The case probably is that at some point (with certain attributes set by an upstream bgp speaker) OriginAS could be any of a set of values. So, ideally the operator would just create ROA with the set covered, right? (really 1 ROA per origin) I think Sriram is getting to that, or is saying it in a way that wasn't clear to me :) -chris From nobody Sun Dec 1 12:40:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DFCC120106; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 12:40:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbtk_URpmn6m; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 12:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.rg.net (mail.rg.net [198.180.150.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 181F112004D; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 12:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [37.173.163.6] (helo=[10.111.156.94]) by mail.rg.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ibW0x-00040m-U9; Sun, 01 Dec 2019 20:40:20 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Randy Bush Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 12:40:14 -0800 Message-Id: <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> Cc: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> To: Chris Morrow X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17B111) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 20:40:25 -0000 Many documents already say to be sure to issue ROA(s) for the AS(s) which an= nounce the prefix. This document does not change that in the slightest. If w= e start reiterating practice and restating the obvious we will have a docume= nt three or more times as large but with zero real added value. Let us not= do that to this simple document.=20 randy, on a phone > On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:07, Chris Morrow wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:17:08 +0000, >>> Is there such a thing as non-deterministic policy? >>> What does it mean to say that the outcome of applying >>> one or a set of policies is that it results in >>> a random AS being the origin AS? >>=20 >> non-derministic !=3D random >>=20 >> in this case it is meant to refer to policy results which depend on >> exogenous data >=20 > The case probably is that at some point (with certain attributes set > by an upstream bgp speaker) OriginAS could be any of a set of values. >=20 > So, ideally the operator would just create ROA with the set covered, > right? (really 1 ROA per origin) >=20 > I think Sriram is getting to that, or is saying it in a way that > wasn't clear to me :) >=20 > -chris From nobody Sun Dec 1 13:31:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D01C3120110; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 13:31:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_ALL=0.8, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XEbi2DRADJyC; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 13:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.ops-netman.net (relay.ops-netman.net [192.110.255.59]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC62312008F; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 13:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.ops-netman.net (mailserver.ops-netman.net [199.168.90.119]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by relay.ops-netman.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 184903C2525; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 21:31:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailserver.ops-netman.net.ops-netman.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ops-netman.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F1B843BB; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 21:31:42 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 21:31:42 +0000 Message-ID: <87r21nbum9.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> From: Chris Morrow To: Randy Bush Cc: Chris Morrow , "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Organization: Operations Network Management, Ltd. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 21:31:45 -0000 On Sun, 01 Dec 2019 20:40:14 +0000, Randy Bush wrote: >=20 > Many documents already say to be sure to issue ROA(s) for the AS(s) > which announce the prefix. This document does not change that in the > slightest. If we start reiterating practice and restating the obvious > we will have a document three or more times as large but with zero > real added value. Let us not do that to this simple document. >=20 that seems fair. (provided that this was what Sriram meant I guess) > randy, on a phone >=20 > > On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:07, Chris Morrow wrote: > >=20 > > =EF=BB=BFOn Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:17:08 +0000, > >>> Is there such a thing as non-deterministic policy? > >>> What does it mean to say that the outcome of applying > >>> one or a set of policies is that it results in > >>> a random AS being the origin AS? > >>=20 > >> non-derministic !=3D random > >>=20 > >> in this case it is meant to refer to policy results which depend on > >> exogenous data > >=20 > > The case probably is that at some point (with certain attributes set > > by an upstream bgp speaker) OriginAS could be any of a set of values. > >=20 > > So, ideally the operator would just create ROA with the set covered, > > right? (really 1 ROA per origin) > >=20 > > I think Sriram is getting to that, or is saying it in a way that > > wasn't clear to me :) > >=20 > > -chris From nobody Sun Dec 1 16:54:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1EBF12011B; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 16:54:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L6_pJZ-HQ1X4; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 16:54:10 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a6XMNOsfLwa5; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 17:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD2CD120052; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 17:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iba4W-0000hH-7H; Mon, 02 Dec 2019 01:00:16 +0000 Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 17:00:14 -0800 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" Cc: Chris Morrow , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Jeffrey Haas , "keyur@arrcus.com" In-Reply-To: References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/26.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 01:00:22 -0000 > My problem was with these two sentences: > > #1 > "Configurations may have complex policy where the final announced > origin AS may not be easily predicted before all policies have been > run." > > Is it not the same as simply saying: > Configurations may have complex policy where the final announced > origin AS is determined only after all policies have been run. > > Why not state that and keep it simple? because it is the inability to predict which is important. > #2 > "Therefore it SHOULD be possible to specify an origin validation > policy which MUST BE run after such non-deterministic policies." > > What does it mean to say "specify origin validation policy"? > The operator knows their complex policies and can determine > the origin AS that would result after the policies are applied. no. that is point. as stated before, exogenous data can make the result not deteminable from analysis of the configuration. > I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say. it does. but i happen not to agree with it. randy From kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov Sun Dec 1 17:35:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A0312011B; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 17:35:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, 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Kotikalapudi (Fed)" To: Randy Bush CC: Chris Morrow , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Jeffrey Haas , "keyur@arrcus.com" Thread-Topic: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) Thread-Index: AQHVpWgKNx6EigmA/UCnwNYVbIcclKeluvoAgAAJRgCAAA5hAIAAMjJvgAAIEgCAAAFQhA== Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 01:35:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [132.163.220.243] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c1e59f8d-c474-453a-48a5-08d776c7e77c x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR09MB4398: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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fos608aF6p343iQ87M4gtVPO3+2XbL/77H6dZfNuYdQ0LyqKazmWUqiltT0TKXWdTVSL+HpChMctR14himN/mJDyO8xZl51QvLo566U++SuSO/Ve/KNXmBr7Iyee3oVLeaVWmBKpMtGUvtT2C6e+Ut/oZgAyzxeyye8WdMkTgxmXt/g+84rYQCCRGuL0b7Q16Z/a8WOf5QWyaauOYw+AiuFQuyfmUOTZDd1CEGtxq7oVSxlAYVo/IGAWSRSjpeE7l8qvtQbhhK3bizyauJyad5X46jLf/5tZX9KI0cVXxoPH2EWF/D2UTXcbGcryn1mkzQgqF29bUyHx5BCYylZ78hnWr69RLiSpYF4EE/GDOxNlJjlNySrJgn4xhx4Gmr6ZqPnQm1k2dqVo83CHgAvsPkD+IoVvLWtDSH1/pZGZV9PW85fNXRw5RmjWrHrdLLfF x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c1e59f8d-c474-453a-48a5-08d776c7e77c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Dec 2019 01:35:24.9676 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: B65dI+mVKVqoc30fPTyrhkpyGxeNyD0HuuY9vpu3Mavkc+HNbvdCwsWN47DPbbrp/awvxSIJwF4Ao8/CIsYGWw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR09MB4398 Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 01:35:34 -0000 > My problem was with these two sentences:=0A= >>=0A= >> #1=0A= >> "Configurations may have complex policy where the final announced=0A= >> origin AS may not be easily predicted before all policies have been= =0A= >> run."=0A= >>=0A= >> Is it not the same as simply saying:=0A= >> Configurations may have complex policy where the final announced=0A= >> origin AS is determined only after all policies have been run.=0A= >>=0A= >> Why not state that and keep it simple?=0A= >=0A= >because it is the inability to predict which is important.=0A= =0A= In my understanding, the entire premise of the draft is that the operator= =0A= has created ROA with the appropriate origin AS whatever the complex=0A= policies and exogenous data may be. Is it not? =0A= Then why do you insist on "inability to predict" the origin AS?=0A= Seems contradictory to me. =0A= =0A= >=0A= >> #2=0A= >> "Therefore it SHOULD be possible to specify an origin validation=0A= >> policy which MUST BE run after such non-deterministic policies."=0A= >>=0A= >> What does it mean to say "specify origin validation policy"?=0A= >=0A= >> The operator knows their complex policies and can determine=0A= >> the origin AS that would result after the policies are applied.=0A= >=0A= >no. that is point. as stated before, exogenous data can make the=0A= >result not deteminable from analysis of the configuration.=0A= >=0A= =0A= "not deteminable" by the AS operator? How? This needs to be illustrated wit= h an example. =0A= Then the draft needs to explain if the origin AS is not determinable,=0A= then was ROA not created? If the ROA cannot be created, then the draft requ= iring=0A= OV on egress is hard to comprehend.=0A= =0A= I may be missing something. But what is it?=0A= =0A= Sriram=0A= From nobody Sun Dec 1 18:01:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D29F212011C; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 18:01:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ktqw_u0o9OC2; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 18:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72B33120052; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 18:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ibb1K-0000sX-8u; Mon, 02 Dec 2019 02:01:02 +0000 Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 18:01:00 -0800 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" Cc: Chris Morrow , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Jeffrey Haas , "keyur@arrcus.com" In-Reply-To: References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/26.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 02:01:07 -0000 > In my understanding, the entire premise of the draft is that the > operator has created ROA with the appropriate origin AS whatever the > complex policies and exogenous data may be. Is it not? no wonder you are surprised that it does not say that. i kind of tried to hint at the irrelevance when i said "their payments to ther RIR should be current." the purpose, as stated in the abstract, is For egress policy, it is important that the classification uses the effective origin AS of the processed route, which may specifically be altered by the commonly available knobs such as removing private ASs, confederation handling, and other modifications of the origin AS. the document is clarification for router protocol implementors. randy From nobody Mon Dec 2 14:33:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3CD12006F; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 14:33:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 2 Dec 2019 22:32:58 +0000 Received: from DM6PR09MB4271.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2061:99e2:5bb2:fd1e]) by DM6PR09MB4271.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2061:99e2:5bb2:fd1e%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2495.014; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 22:32:58 +0000 From: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" To: Randy Bush , "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" CC: "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "keyur@arrcus.com" , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Chris Morrow , Jeffrey Haas , "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" Thread-Topic: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) Thread-Index: AQHVpWgSEBZM4zsUfES1xVtq6IDBOKeluvoAgAAJRgCAAA5hAIAAOJAAgAABtACAARVcgA== Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 22:32:58 +0000 Message-ID: <9AEB8712-8C36-4831-B119-87334D74CA59@nist.gov> References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=oliver.borchert@nist.gov; 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H:DM6PR09MB4271.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 3hmyuLhGU8umasY5KJ0BAPqSbkbmR73aWrllS/65T51PTYFMWbb8uxPgVz0ICxADqmJluTJxWL3uyMKThipQZbpyB4KtHuzsTseXYdMOJ4vYfjcbF0zgnDpiEzEjK/dnSEowuKPkUomAuyssfj0HBhxOVbpYFxOzy+MldNliYzTJRxpXLvj0RFW9teTHkWSChurATaUPVa2Drl+0J+Ddp4Ag3qp9mOHOst8hQtAVyFxzEo/NkvdFgxHojabFDlHjLvH8UFrcxhr0dRhQlVslfV1c1G2RV/zV54zkNQa5ujY7MbmMHQcQxqYy0nmelZlbxAs+k9GenMjgah6Ow3CRXzx3E21cD/zSOk3Wjh1gSe0HSnC5Sgmqczi1jImMtZnG2OAHSXzlkVsowyH5AnugG5qCuOh+xibmKYpN2jzkiBfjkXv1P4OVRyPA48PegN0L Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <0F2D3D6663AE9E4FBCA2DFA4F22872CE@namprd09.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 959f2490-f57c-4b6f-62d6-08d777779544 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Dec 2019 22:32:58.4259 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: MgAeCtv371BqTMnUyLz389lxW4mAofD9WY0vZ+fx6ba+uY9KsbOnf+uB67+4iZltJLg8ckcV32ZLEaDZ8JdqQA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR09MB4982 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 22:33:03 -0000 ICAgIA0KICAgID4+IFRoZSBvcGVyYXRvciBrbm93cyB0aGVpciBjb21wbGV4IHBvbGljaWVzIGFu ZCBjYW4gZGV0ZXJtaW5lDQogICAgPj4gdGhlIG9yaWdpbiBBUyB0aGF0IHdvdWxkIHJlc3VsdCBh ZnRlciB0aGUgcG9saWNpZXMgYXJlIGFwcGxpZWQuDQogICAgDQogICAgPm5vLiAgdGhhdCBpcyBw b2ludC4gIGFzIHN0YXRlZCBiZWZvcmUsIGV4b2dlbm91cyBkYXRhIGNhbiBtYWtlIHRoZQ0KICAg ID5yZXN1bHQgbm90IGRldGVtaW5hYmxlIGZyb20gYW5hbHlzaXMgb2YgdGhlIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRp b24uDQogDQpIaSBSYW5keSwNCg0KSSBhbSBzb21ld2hhdCBwdXp6bGVkLCBjb3VsZCB5b3UgZWxh Ym9yYXRlIG1vcmUgd2hhdCB5b3UgbWVhbiBieSAiZXhvZ2Vub3VzIGRhdGEiLiANCkFsc28gSSBz dGlsbCBkb24ndCBzZWUgdGhlICJub24tZGV0ZW1pbmFibGUiIGFzcGVjdD8NCg0KQSBjbGVhciBl eGFtcGxlIHdvdWxkIGJlIHZlcnkgaGVscGZ1bCB0byB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHdoYXQgeW91IG1lYW4s DQoNClRoYW5rcywNCk9saXZlcg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Dec 2 14:55:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D18C1200B9; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 14:55:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H0e4zwMjI1VZ; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 14:55:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 024331200B6; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 14:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ibubg-0005Ca-Hf; Mon, 02 Dec 2019 22:55:52 +0000 Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 14:55:51 -0800 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" Cc: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "keyur@arrcus.com" , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Chris Morrow , Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: <9AEB8712-8C36-4831-B119-87334D74CA59@nist.gov> References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> <9AEB8712-8C36-4831-B119-87334D74CA59@nist.gov> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/26.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 22:55:58 -0000 > I am somewhat puzzled, could you elaborate more what you mean by > "exogenous data". Also I still don't see the "non-deteminable" > aspect? prefix injected from static on A sent ibgp to B, and B has AS marking policy based on a community which may or not have been marked by A. randy From nobody Mon Dec 2 20:28:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6266412008F; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 20:28:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.69 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.69 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_ALL=0.8, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eq04h_4xbkOF; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 20:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.ops-netman.net (relay.kvm02.ops-netman.net [IPv6:2606:700:e:550:5c82:28ff:fe4c:9503]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E59D712008C; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 20:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.ops-netman.net (mailserver.ops-netman.net [199.168.90.119]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by relay.ops-netman.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB3443C27B9; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 04:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailserver.ops-netman.net.ops-netman.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ops-netman.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A902A56A; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 04:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 04:28:39 +0000 Message-ID: <877e3ekp6w.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> From: Chris Morrow To: Randy Bush Cc: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" , "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "keyur@arrcus.com" , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Chris Morrow , Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> <9AEB8712-8C36-4831-B119-87334D74CA59@nist.gov> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Organization: Operations Network Management, Ltd. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 04:28:42 -0000 On Mon, 02 Dec 2019 22:55:51 +0000, Randy Bush wrote: > > > I am somewhat puzzled, could you elaborate more what you mean by > > "exogenous data". Also I still don't see the "non-deteminable" > > aspect? > > prefix injected from static on A sent ibgp to B, and B has AS marking > policy based on a community which may or not have been marked by A. The general case here is likely that in a complex network (more than a few routers), it's possible to have wonky things going on. Randy's one example certainly is true, from a real network though I know of a case where SOMETIMES prefixes get their origin-as set via initial creation of the route (static route), and SOMETIMES the operator decided: "Oh, I should match on community-foo + attribute-bar and reset origin-as to BLOOP" This leads to some hilarity when attempting to sort out RPKI/ROA data :( "Oh, that's clearly AS-BAR because we set that on the creation of the route!" followed shortly by: "wait what? why is it AS-BLOOP??? WTF?" In any case: "make the ROA you intend, all of them" is sound advice. Verifying prior to shipping across your peering edge sure seems like "being polite to the world" as well. From nobody Tue Dec 3 06:33:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A9E120043; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 06:33:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBMgAom8cnP3; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 06:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CA2C12006E; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 06:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ic9Ey-0006uW-Ai; Tue, 03 Dec 2019 14:33:24 +0000 Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 06:33:23 -0800 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Chris Morrow Cc: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" , "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "keyur@arrcus.com" , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" , Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: <877e3ekp6w.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> <9AEB8712-8C36-4831-B119-87334D74CA59@nist.gov> <877e3ekp6w.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/26.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 14:33:31 -0000 > The general case here is likely that in a complex network (more than a > few routers), it's possible to have wonky things going on. Randy's one > example certainly is true, from a real network though I know of a case > where SOMETIMES prefixes get their origin-as set via initial creation > of the route (static route), and SOMETIMES the operator decided: > > "Oh, I should match on community-foo + attribute-bar and reset > origin-as to BLOOP" > > This leads to some hilarity when attempting to sort out RPKI/ROA data :( > > "Oh, that's clearly AS-BAR because we set that on the creation of > the route!" > > followed shortly by: > > "wait what? why is it AS-BLOOP??? WTF?" yep > In any case: "make the ROA you intend, all of them" is sound advice. > Verifying prior to shipping across your peering edge sure seems like > "being polite to the world" as well. someone could give 500kg of complex advice to the operator who does this stuff. that ain't me. the purpose of this draft is to request that the *vendors* allow origin validation *after* all such kink. hence the name. randy From nobody Tue Dec 3 06:41:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2DAB120019; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 06:41:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jq9X_mM2IdvD; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 06:41:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 003BD120025; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 06:41:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 208A41E2F5; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:45:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:45:38 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Randy Bush Cc: Chris Morrow , "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" , "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" , "keyur@arrcus.com" , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20191203144537.GA5160@pfrc.org> References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com> <9AEB8712-8C36-4831-B119-87334D74CA59@nist.gov> <877e3ekp6w.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019) X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 14:41:27 -0000 On Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 06:33:23AM -0800, Randy Bush wrote: > the purpose of this draft is to request that the *vendors* allow origin > validation *after* all such kink. hence the name. And that was the early conclusion when we started working through this. "It's messy". 'Well, just let them run policy again after all of the weird stuff is done.' -- Jeff From nobody Tue Dec 3 17:13:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF99120047; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 17:13:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DMgi2N9JU0qU; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 17:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82c.google.com (mail-qt1-x82c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFBB312000F; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 17:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82c.google.com with SMTP id d5so6016519qto.0; Tue, 03 Dec 2019 17:13:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MhNH//O0jFWkLTLSElnoTLm3YvURBqMa4T913Nzm4Sw=; b=brNM6zpdg+q42CQQExdXK1258jg2Ome9znu9g+oCVH0QvHsuVmSkt/tXIarc7BsFJA 05n02a8rzoZaredw266NYBZmRTmIhxYlvUB2VwqUxXbU68YrRA3CJ8R/uu4I4+OYjehd ELWoRlzvBMnI0xHmEdheOrd/P6S8rMZ6mCmLGILREIux+fOwWUAzVRfl305wl253PCZp F4Ky3Df3XXo+H9lhErl6fokwDkbhrKUIKiZmtygxoqW7uUZ3C6bUPHMqraDjMHDwirLd UV4CU2J5hdOsoV4Z6OcN8D9l5BTR+NMo2qZmxTrPqChlGKww3ufmi4k6+IQVV8mauOoz gOFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MhNH//O0jFWkLTLSElnoTLm3YvURBqMa4T913Nzm4Sw=; b=KUQ6EjlV3qyRdqjIm16xmld+LAj733JN/RFpxSr+mRVDg7OR2sMNOvCjoqKWStPIJ+ UPLUYv1Um4h1JUisx6/bZjWOAqRK7+tgv259QqjxaSM9KggKe/qWBBwf3XLk376J/eeR ehpwXwzK1KawBUxmut8Xf8HmiBGag1NVgho6ruaisZUg4USsEMz7DcclGRt0Yxl4E8tv HNrAUgZAPWqintYqa5HBO3YYO8s6xtUB6Zp7FM3Fr9ISivaWcg4R76K5f5Ox7acYDFJc DbTXcyjL/TCXL0BnnszgIi++MF8oUAFqumRMOlS1OowBaDmZToAcScf+u9f9r16Cygim +5kw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUSK5jJUxDSeyAzyLr+IbiX2syK5vqmTQn3oeg5RW65TeiRTDcX F/jVLYK9lYnxqiGffcavr9EbVGN3PRsXLmFn/K1dPGEfu44= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyNm8fBtiSI2U/2lx4IJxvV5WRx9nBsCyCt1twBjAC2MdDiXGXSHXKqB0yK38A8Xf6deUdh4Yj25jmF6Ygw2UY= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:37ae:: with SMTP id d43mr517602qtc.286.1575422007171; Tue, 03 Dec 2019 17:13:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Christopher Morrow Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 20:13:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: SIDROps Chairs , SIDR Operations WG , sidrops-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Sidrops] WGLC draft-ietf-sidrops-rp-06 ends 12/17/2019 X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 01:13:30 -0000 howdy folks! The authors of draft-ietf-sidrops-rp have made some changes related to previous comments/questions/etc and would like to move the document along provided issues are properly addressed. Let's take a 2wk period to read and review, comment and raise concerns if there are any remaining. Thanks! -chris co-chairperson From nobody Sun Dec 8 17:57:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A841200CC; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 17:57:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xY_nik7UZ9te; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 17:57:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 562F912007C; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 17:57:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 67900660282FEB836249; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 01:57:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml719-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.70) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 01:57:48 +0000 Received: from lhreml719-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.70) by lhreml719-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 01:57:47 +0000 Received: from DGGEML423-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.40) by lhreml719-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 01:57:47 +0000 Received: from DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.131]) by dggeml423-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 09:56:47 +0800 From: "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" To: Christopher Morrow , SIDROps Chairs , SIDR Operations WG , "sidrops-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Sidrops] WGLC draft-ietf-sidrops-rp-06 ends 12/17/2019 Thread-Index: AQHVqkAS2YoekgyAQU2MpgSjrWmt76exDFtw Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 01:56:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.184.132] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC draft-ietf-sidrops-rp-06 ends 12/17/2019 X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 01:57:53 -0000 Hi all, I found this document quite useful for engineers and operators to learn abo= ut the requirements of the RPKI RP systems, and a good reference for routin= g security solution design. The taxonomy used by this document is rational,= and could be a guidance for RP developers and operators to get down to the= ir jobs.=20 BR, Yunan -----Original Message----- From: Sidrops [mailto:sidrops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Mo= rrow Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2019 9:13 AM To: SIDROps Chairs ; SIDR Operations WG ; sidrops-ads@ietf.org Subject: [Sidrops] WGLC draft-ietf-sidrops-rp-06 ends 12/17/2019 howdy folks! The authors of draft-ietf-sidrops-rp have made some changes related to pre= vious comments/questions/etc and would like to move the document along prov= ided issues are properly addressed. Let's take a 2wk period to read and rev= iew, comment and raise concerns if there are any remaining. Thanks! -chris co-chairperson _______________________________________________ Sidrops mailing list Sidrops@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidrops From nobody Sun Dec 8 21:01:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4151200E9 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 21:01:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9o52OAmHo1LT for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 21:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44D801200CC for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 21:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id z193so13368538iof.1 for ; Sun, 08 Dec 2019 21:01:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=OdJnRvn8sJXU7xkd3x+7DFW+lzTGiowXNUGpFt0AWUg=; b=LVWLs417FilSp6C6N1zU8vuZRKIbCynWKiWJOdjgkn71ULWb6OwhmwL7OQnQOuggG/ rp9wuLifzQFaJL85e79/zc53DTeLZ4FE0jZrPVJOCxNV+rHY9T+ydp7ubSNYrLjc1/LH RXdOsAeRqUGCQY0gP5Y568lHQpVk65McZQ5Kd/9WI4d3b/SU33uxZN4pE9mpWLPf1KjV 4Qh1gTHl57fBHzi7C4bnlQIOXa16tK8/2/5y/cbRjO6lV6hFj/rkJqtlUlVsiVqNLEiz wra92P4SagzohEcZh0XZymQHxX/L4hSP+l7op4a3Bv4gKIp3Ai3gNJhsAtFUZ40Riws9 BwDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OdJnRvn8sJXU7xkd3x+7DFW+lzTGiowXNUGpFt0AWUg=; b=BdI3KrC0QPhEporTvCChjwHwHOy9yGfFGKY5w5W4UygZ1hmR23tylMHUAusZKBz9mm H3lRCeggQbKtM/13zleFIt7J7tYwinHaqOD2y6A2rjo86BrZ4F5YKLny1tY1ktzBTYVx DI1/IG7MCavjqdU1TAGyhDoznQZO5pewifN5LMer0DL+6zSjJ4J4R3SyYBm/4v6aEpzC 5LueCl27eMw4C7b5vFL4c1knfgA47f/pkclnVEKO7U5pFtntYSWxrw25Cy3rvW/OXrn8 /6WlznXNfoZy48l7adsZh5X6dwG0gMQpbYj86xHr2WervCIS2AC7IFPDqwnrgo+bwR0b FqGw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWxOhaQzhsqGcv5SJc774lVMPCMA4FWwPNqqx11WtngadQ5GcOs mElkrnIG7pMZrxM9Mlz6qlV4uzp2RatUQEAV4IMtwQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwBr+xgHSVRhf1I1IkLkZHJy4zJGWjRE9e7/2lc2vDnW/fkeH5+iHHJjjwF6/vJiWXt7Dwy1D73yUa58lctHX0= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:c204:: with SMTP id v4mr20061626iop.106.1575867706424; Sun, 08 Dec 2019 21:01:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 15:01:35 +1000 Message-ID: To: Christopher Morrow Cc: SIDROps Chairs , SIDR Operations WG , sidrops-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC draft-ietf-sidrops-rp-06 ends 12/17/2019 X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 05:01:50 -0000 I've re-read the document and I support publication. 1) its non-normative, it doesn't attempt to use MUST/MAY language, its written as an informative pointing to the normative RFCs. 2) I don't see it as altering any substantive quality in 'bits on the wire' or format of ASN.1 or any other high risk change, instead it helps guide how to interpret what you see, and how to understand what you should do. 3) I think its a useful contribution, especially for anyone walking into the situation cold, unsure how to read and understand the collection of documents which apply. -George On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:13 AM Christopher Morrow wrote: > > howdy folks! > The authors of draft-ietf-sidrops-rp have made some changes related > to previous comments/questions/etc and would like to move the document > along provided issues are properly addressed. Let's take a 2wk period > to read and review, comment and raise concerns if there are any > remaining. > > Thanks! > -chris > co-chairperson > > _______________________________________________ > Sidrops mailing list > Sidrops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidrops From nobody Mon Dec 16 07:49:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98A2120020 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 07:49:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fjOq_-hjlDOP for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 07:49:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from molamola.ripe.net (molamola.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:67c:2e8:11::c100:1371]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D35D120047 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 07:49:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [193.0.23.13] (helo=bufobufo.ripe.net) by molamola.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1igscm-0000CI-QW for sidrops@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:49:32 +0100 Received: from sslvpn.ipv6.ripe.net ([2001:67c:2e8:9::c100:14e6] helo=[IPv6:2001:67c:2e8:1200::2bb]) by bufobufo.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.2) (envelope-from ) id 1igscm-0004wb-Nd for sidrops@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:49:32 +0100 From: Nathalie Trenaman Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2F5C5030-2E44-4957-ABE3-BC5EDC971900"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:49:32 +0100 To: SIDR Operations WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-ACL-Warn: Delaying message X-RIPE-Signature: b23882c8c47abee4cf35af21618ca92a05d9938775299da6042cf3addf16e96e Archived-At: Subject: [Sidrops] Bug Fix Validator 3 X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:49:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2F5C5030-2E44-4957-ABE3-BC5EDC971900 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1F880EAE-AD57-4A7B-9317-CA873F8DBC69" --Apple-Mail=_1F880EAE-AD57-4A7B-9317-CA873F8DBC69 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, We have just released a bug fix version of our Validator 3. You can find them here: Centos7 - = https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/centos7/repo/rpki-validato= r-3.1-2019.12.16.15.18.18.noarch.rpm = Debian - = https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/deb/rpki-validator-3.1-201= 9.12.16.15.18.18.deb = Generic build - = https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/generic/rpki-validator-3.1= -2019.12.16.15.18.18-dist.tar.gz = If you have yum repository configured, "yum install rpki-validator" will = do the job. This was an interesting bug - We always relied on the idea that serial = numbers of manifest objects increase --- apparently all the Trust = Anchors so far (except for some of the sub-repositories under APNIC) = generated increasing serial numbers and it always worked. It looks like = Krill doesn't do it, that's why Validator 3 doesn't always pick up the = latest manifest and can use stale data. According to the RFC serial = numbers don't have to increase, they just need to be different (the = Krill implementation follows that RFC), so it was a bug on our side that = is now fixed. Thanks for bringing this up. Nathalie Trenaman RIPE NCC --Apple-Mail=_1F880EAE-AD57-4A7B-9317-CA873F8DBC69 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = all, 

We have = just released a bug fix version of our Validator 3.

You can find them = here: 

Centos7 - https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/centos7/repo/rp= ki-validator-3.1-2019.12.16.15.18.18.noarch.rpm
Debian - https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/deb/rpki-valida= tor-3.1-2019.12.16.15.18.18.deb
Generic build = - https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/generic/rpki-va= lidator-3.1-2019.12.16.15.18.18-dist.tar.gz

If you have yum = repository configured, "yum install rpki-validator" will do the = job.

This was = an interesting bug - We always relied on the idea that serial = numbers of manifest objects increase --- apparently all the Trust = Anchors so far (except for some of the sub-repositories under APNIC) = generated increasing serial numbers and it always worked. It looks like = Krill doesn't do it, that's why Validator 3 doesn't always pick up the = latest manifest and can use stale data. According to the RFC serial = numbers don't have to increase, they just need to be different (the = Krill implementation follows that RFC), so it was a bug on our side that = is now fixed. 

Thanks for bringing this up.

Nathalie Trenaman
RIPE NCC
= --Apple-Mail=_1F880EAE-AD57-4A7B-9317-CA873F8DBC69-- --Apple-Mail=_2F5C5030-2E44-4957-ABE3-BC5EDC971900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEErOQRhE+jh6+GVH8pAwRJ2YYkN2oFAl33p4wACgkQAwRJ2YYk N2o+WA/+PaCHMhebP/IGoXR6lfX6Y9Cu3k2iwhH+giG6KHy2Cp/tGZWUcl4gEIJi WHKmGhaJ6EFX+9BkHIaiD9E1Vm4Ne5e0f/rRIFMzoQavUAzji3OiJi/DV2SDzN4e CbfhDlsDhZYfd2Ii0LB3mMr6jyonvrNp2qLzu0wLqbUYnrCWYftzRpPamua3t0T9 ZsPzMNp1wJ9yLbvdjleC2bhrukuMBGQiS6XgfYmJgbskfiQzG5LERxNcG1xsZ1V1 ix8CVKyJVdOHXSThCUxS/0tDRuRocJQTxp9ga16Ctdt65ybCy7u7OkmvMV/5jJiN vu2nSFyC8EzhAUEnUTMAmTZk+QcopVnwW6INeBDhns8Qrc7qWQ2fHWVdFWBwpy9i fL+0KiMpntpa8sy+L7Op7d0QgoPQLLfzVOsHEIoUAx5aGSDsnGFVaoFPKt+8pCrw Qp6b80i3Ik3IpmqySWrUBJY/m5WwcRm46N1OH5qpc8il5rX/XtZ6ogejwU+qP3Rf KxdbLLE7uxTX/tSHXtZp56r0r4TI6+sOKrQZGR8J0qzfPQV8Do+ZS9401AtMFB1c eD8VKqX75CEgQ4LTwTktbG4JLmLOuzdzA4EXelJUl47TwUHHFpdvfmfgnJO9O7J3 Z+ZB69PF9olWs3o5kMDKxeBedAv19s51s+tiYTKEGpzQjPQeqn0= =N0Zx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_2F5C5030-2E44-4957-ABE3-BC5EDC971900-- From nobody Mon Dec 16 07:58:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDCF412006D for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 07:58:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nlnetlabs.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yJLq3pGkvhLY for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 07:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dicht.nlnetlabs.nl (dicht.nlnetlabs.nl [185.49.140.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A757D120047 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 07:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:981:4b52:1:6ce4:cea7:acc6:f768] (unknown [IPv6:2001:981:4b52:1:6ce4:cea7:acc6:f768]) by dicht.nlnetlabs.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5A162C03B; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:58:32 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: dicht.nlnetlabs.nl; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=nlnetlabs.nl Authentication-Results: dicht.nlnetlabs.nl; spf=fail smtp.mailfrom=tim@nlnetlabs.nl DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl; s=default; t=1576511912; bh=dNAB6NChQ2pANf2sQ6pRv5103Yh8xrDPa97x34gA4N4=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=hB+JnNpLaff5cZttAY+IuWSbbYqWMPBvc33UR+9jvh7Z5hrRegTOgGHN9mNSlgezK HHfft946dlspe/K9YQbRHi8cR9LK4YGiR0LVjs8fKknU5UCKrVSsc2HM/AmnRqpiY/ rfsSs2wmvBPojfDZBWw7E5SEWOhhoslnOxyGwKBU= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_02DAD432-2A1C-4328-A29F-5C14FCD1E325" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) From: Tim Bruijnzeels In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:58:32 +0100 Cc: SIDR Operations WG Message-Id: <78AB7069-A4CB-4371-B63D-BB48CC5C5F7A@nlnetlabs.nl> References: To: Nathalie Trenaman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] Bug Fix Validator 3 X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:58:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_02DAD432-2A1C-4328-A29F-5C14FCD1E325 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, > On 16 Dec 2019, at 16:49, Nathalie Trenaman wrote: >=20 > Hi all,=20 >=20 > We have just released a bug fix version of our Validator 3. >=20 > You can find them here:=20 >=20 > Centos7 - = https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/centos7/repo/rpki-validato= r-3.1-2019.12.16.15.18.18.noarch.rpm = > Debian - = https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/deb/rpki-validator-3.1-201= 9.12.16.15.18.18.deb = > Generic build - = https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/generic/rpki-validator-3.1= -2019.12.16.15.18.18-dist.tar.gz = >=20 > If you have yum repository configured, "yum install rpki-validator" = will do the job. >=20 > This was an interesting bug - We always relied on the idea that serial = numbers of manifest objects increase --- apparently all the Trust = Anchors so far (except for some of the sub-repositories under APNIC) = generated increasing serial numbers and it always worked. It looks like = Krill doesn't do it, that's why Validator 3 doesn't always pick up the = latest manifest and can use stale data. According to the RFC serial = numbers don't have to increase, they just need to be different (the = Krill implementation follows that RFC), so it was a bug on our side that = is now fixed.=20 To be precise: the 'manifestNumber' (section 4.2.1 of RFC 6486) = increases with '1' every new publication, but the embedded EE = certificate's Serial Number (4.2.2.2 of RFC5280) is a random number. I = remember reading advice that this certificate Serial Number should not = be predictable, but I can't find where right now. Thanks, Tim --Apple-Mail=_02DAD432-2A1C-4328-A29F-5C14FCD1E325 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = all,

On 16 Dec 2019, at 16:49, Nathalie Trenaman = <nathalie@ripe.net> wrote:

Hi all, 

We have just released a = bug fix version of our Validator 3.

You can find them here: 

Centos7 = - https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/centos7/repo/rp= ki-validator-3.1-2019.12.16.15.18.18.noarch.rpm
Debian - https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/deb/rpki-valida= tor-3.1-2019.12.16.15.18.18.deb
Generic build = - https://ftp.ripe.net/tools/rpki/validator3/prod/generic/rpki-va= lidator-3.1-2019.12.16.15.18.18-dist.tar.gz

If you have yum = repository configured, "yum install rpki-validator" will do the = job.

This was = an interesting bug - We always relied on the idea that serial = numbers of manifest objects increase --- apparently all the Trust = Anchors so far (except for some of the sub-repositories under APNIC) = generated increasing serial numbers and it always worked. It looks like = Krill doesn't do it, that's why Validator 3 doesn't always pick up the = latest manifest and can use stale data. According to the RFC serial = numbers don't have to increase, they just need to be different (the = Krill implementation follows that RFC), so it was a bug on our side that = is now fixed. 


To be precise: the = 'manifestNumber' (section 4.2.1 of RFC 6486) increases with '1' every = new publication, but the embedded EE certificate's Serial Number = (4.2.2.2 of RFC5280) is a random number. I remember reading advice that = this certificate Serial Number should not be predictable, but I can't = find where right now.

Thanks,

Tim

= --Apple-Mail=_02DAD432-2A1C-4328-A29F-5C14FCD1E325-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 21:56:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FE9120098; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 21:56:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x7WGHZ48t9VO; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 21:56:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from chinatelecom.cn (prt-mail.chinatelecom.cn [42.123.76.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA1A12011B; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 21:56:04 -0800 (PST) HMM_SOURCE_IP: 172.18.0.218:25062.1061212382 HMM_ATTACHE_NUM: 0000 HMM_SOURCE_TYPE: SMTP Received: from clientip-219.142.69.77?logid-072A07A8D3E64743BB1FA5EE312FCC81 (unknown [172.18.0.218]) by chinatelecom.cn (HERMES) with SMTP id BEBDA280106; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:55:55 +0800 (CST) X-189-SAVE-TO-SEND: xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn Received: from ([172.18.0.218]) by App0025 with ESMTP id 072A07A8D3E64743BB1FA5EE312FCC81 for sidrops-chairs@ietf.org; Wed Dec 18 13:55:58 2019 X-Transaction-ID: 072A07A8D3E64743BB1FA5EE312FCC81 X-filter-score: filter<0> X-Real-From: xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn X-Receive-IP: 172.18.0.218 X-MEDUSA-Status: 0 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:55:53 +0800 From: "Chongfeng Xie" To: sidrops-chairs , sidrops , sidrops-ads References: X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.14.409[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <201912181355531767102@chinatelecom.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart358144553188_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC draft-ietf-sidrops-rp-06 ends 12/17/2019 X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 05:56:09 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart358144553188_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGVsbG8uIGZvbGtzLA0KSSd2ZSByZS1yZWFkIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQuICBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50 IGlzIHF1aXRlIGluc3RydW1lbnRhbCBmb3IgYW4gSVNQIHRvIGNvbmNlaXZlIGhvdyB0byBlc3Rh Ymxpc2ggaXRzIFJQS0kgUlAgc3lzdGVtLCBhcyBpdCBwcm92aWRlcyBSUEtJIGxpdGVyYWN5IGZy b20gUlAgcGVyc3BlY3RpdmUuIA0KSSBzdXBwb3J0IHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uLg0KDQpDaG9uZ2ZlbmcN Cg0KDQoNCiANCkZyb206IENocmlzdG9waGVyIE1vcnJvdw0KRGF0ZTogMjAxOS0xMi0wNCAwOTox Mw0KVG86IFNJRFJPcHMgQ2hhaXJzOyBTSURSIE9wZXJhdGlvbnMgV0c7IHNpZHJvcHMtYWRzDQpT dWJqZWN0OiBbU2lkcm9wc10gV0dMQyBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXNpZHJvcHMtcnAtMDYgZW5kcyAxMi8x Ny8yMDE5DQpob3dkeSBmb2xrcyENClRoZSBhdXRob3JzIG9mICBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXNpZHJvcHMt cnAgaGF2ZSBtYWRlIHNvbWUgY2hhbmdlcyByZWxhdGVkDQp0byBwcmV2aW91cyBjb21tZW50cy9x dWVzdGlvbnMvZXRjIGFuZCB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIG1vdmUgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50DQphbG9uZyBw cm92aWRlZCBpc3N1ZXMgYXJlIHByb3Blcmx5IGFkZHJlc3NlZC4gTGV0J3MgdGFrZSBhIDJ3ayBw ZXJpb2QNCnRvIHJlYWQgYW5kIHJldmlldywgY29tbWVudCBhbmQgcmFpc2UgY29uY2VybnMgaWYg dGhlcmUgYXJlIGFueQ0KcmVtYWluaW5nLg0KIA0KVGhhbmtzIQ0KLWNocmlzDQpjby1jaGFpcnBl cnNvbg0KIA0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18N ClNpZHJvcHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpTaWRyb3BzQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3NpZHJvcHMNCiANCg== ------=_001_NextPart358144553188_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable