Subject: [Simple] Re: Georpiv and actively lying

From: Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:42:05 -0400

[email-masked] wrote:

> I'm not sure I follow this.  Does this imply that you use an "alibi 
> publisher" to change
> your location under certain circumstances and that this location is held 
> to be valid
> for all watchers?  If so, this requires no special processing in the 

The alibi data could be delivered to all watchers or only delivered to 
certain watchers (the spouse in the running example). This only requires 
a selection mechanism, as we already need the ability for a location 
server to select from different representations. (For a completely 
different example unrelated to lying, I might want to deliver my 
802.11-derived location information indoors, but GPS outdoors.)

> GeoPriv sense; it
> simply implies that you can adjust location provider by configuration.  
> If you do intend
> it to apply only to certain watchers, then we're back to a serious set 
> of issues, including
> how to do in-the-moment updates of the rules, how to apply 
> transformative rules,
> and so on.

Not necessarily. All I need is to do labeling of data and a selector. 
Consider the following rule, expressed in the 'conditional statement' 
version of my rule model:

if (observer=FBI)
   select class=alibi

or

if (area=indoors)
   select class=802-11

RPID, for example, has such a class attribute for tuples.

>> I believe it can work. It has the benefit that it can have lots of 
>> flexibility. If this transformation is done on the server, you need to 
>> specify particular transformations that are possible so that the user 
>> can set them as it desires. THe drawback is that it now requires two 
>> publishers for a single user just to support this capability. It also 
>> introduces the need to coordination between those publications, either 
>> by havign them co-resident, or through some other means. When 
>> co-resident, say, on a wireless handset, it may increase bandwidth 
>> usage by sending information which could have been algorithmically 
>> derived at the server.

As I point out elsewhere, any self-respecting liar (if there's such a 
thing) would need to have more than just constants in his lies. Thus, 
you either need to have a rulemaker that updates the lie or a publisher 
that publishes a new document. Both are roughly equivalent, except that 
the publisher mechanism does not require the cooperation of the location 
server (or PA, in the SIMPLE context) and thus is likely to be more 
flexible.

> 
> 
> This seems to me to be more flexibility than GeoPriv can handle at the 
> moment.  The bang for
> this buck seems awfully small, and the delay larger than is warranted.  

Are you referring to the ability to lie in general, the ability for the 
LS to transform my location into a lie or the ability to publish two 
location object and allow for selection?

I have to admit that I find adding complexity for willful 
misrepresentation a waste of resources (and hope that Ted's statement 
agrees with that...).

> Just my opinion, of
> course,
>             regards,
>                 Ted

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