Subject: AW: AW: [Simple] RPID - moods

From: Schmidt Christian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:43:46 +0200

Hi Henning,

I agreee, let´s do it this way. Could you please include "moods" in the
next version of your RPIDs Draft? Should I provide some text?

Regards,
Christian

P.S. Perhaps "invincible" in this context mean, I am in the mood
to hide me somehow.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Mai 2004 16:44
An: Schmidt Christian
Cc: 'Peter Saint-Andre'; [email-masked]
Betreff: Re: AW: [Simple] RPID - moods

I agree that mood can be useful. Given the need to interoperate with 
other systems, it seems easiest to just have the superset of values in 
the Jabber paper. That way, translation from Jabber to SIMPLE is easy 
and does not require many-to-one mappings. Whether user interfaces will 
actually allow users to generate the 60 moods is a different issue.

Schmidt Christian wrote:

> Hi Henning, Peter
> 
> yes, self-assessment is needed in this case. But this is also valid for sphere. If
> you are for example working at home, you have to become active as well.
> 
> On the other hand, this feature would be helpful for both sides:
> - The presentity can signal, that he want to be contacted only in certain 
> cases (I am angry - contact me only for good news, I am sleepy - contact me
> only for important things, which can not wait).
> - The watcher can check the mood of the presentity, before contacting him.
> Perhaps it is more efficient, to wait a few hours with a call.
> 
> The JEP paper show a big number of mood values (about 60). We do not 
> need this big number of different moods. The Wireless Village approach,
> with 11 moods (happy, sad, angry, jealous, ashamed, invincible, in love,
> sleepy, bored, excited, anxious) seems to be sufficient for the purpose.
> 
> Mood is an important aspect for the ability and willingness to accept an
> incoming call (presence service). Therefor it would be good, to have
> this in the RPID draft.
> 
> Regards,
> Christian
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] Im Auftrag von Peter Saint-Andre
> Gesendet: Montag, 17. Mai 2004 18:14
> An: Henning Schulzrinne
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Betreff: Re: [Simple] RPID - moods
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 16, 2004 at 07:52:29PM -0400, Henning Schulzrinne wrote:
> 
> 
>>This is something I've always talked about in jest...  The problem I 
>>have is that I can't see a good automated way of determining moods, so 
>>we'd have to exclusively rely on people's self-assessment.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, self-assessment seems necessary here, unless someone has
> invented an introspection machine.
> 
> 
>>I did find
>>
>>http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0107.html
>>
>>which proposes something like that for Jabber and references a listing 
>>of mood values in Wireless Village.
>>
>>I'm happy to include it, but I'm worried and anxious that this will lead 
>>to extended discussions whether the list is sufficiently complete.
> 
> 
> That protocol attempted to be complete but, naturally, someone will
> always claim that some important and essential mood was excluded. I'm
> of the opinion that getting 80% or 90% coverage is sufficient in this
> context.
> 
> Peter
> 

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From: Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:05:48 -0400

Yes, it will be. I've already written the text, but need to figure out 
the schema. (For consistency, we will use the mechanism provided by 
Jonathan, not just a token enumeration.)

---

From: Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:05:48 -0400

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From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:18:17 -0400

> next version of your RPIDs Draft? Should I provide some text?

I'm OK with adding moods in principle; I am worried about keeping the 
scope of RPID limited, especially this late in the game.

> P.S. Perhaps "invincible" in this context mean, I am in the mood

"invincible" means that I cannot be defeated, "invisible" means I can't 
be seen. We have debated the "invisibility" feature quite a lot, and 
though I honestly don't recall what we settled on for it, its not a 
mood. "invincible" as a mood is defined as the way you feel after a 
great victory against difficult odds, usually elated, daring, willing to 
tackle the next big battle.

-Jonathan R.

-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D.                600 Lanidex Plaza
Chief Technology Officer                    Parsippany, NJ 07054-2711
dynamicsoft
[email-masked]                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net                      PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:22:48 -0500

> tackle the next big battle.

Well, sure, but why did the Wireless Village protocol designers include
"invincible" as one of the 11 moods they defined? It's not a mood that
comes immediately to mind as one of the basic human emotions. :-)

Peter

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From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:18:17 -0400

-Jonathan R.

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From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:22:48 -0500

Peter

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From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:55:56 -0400

> comes immediately to mind as one of the basic human emotions. :-)

My guess it was that someone suggested it and no one objected, rather 
than some deep belief in the fundamental human emotions.

Indeed, its the inability to come up with a finite and complete 
enumeration that would normally make me steer clear of it. Here, I like 
the proposal to define our scope as "equal to WV", and let everything 
else be done by extensions.

-Jonathan R.

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From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:55:56 -0400

-Jonathan R.

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From: Alex Audu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:09:24 -0500

It'd be nice to be able to express if one is  distressed.   In fact, 
how  about adding 
the following also:  distressed,  ecstatic, furious, restful, lazy, and 
warm ?

Regards,
Alex.

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From: Alex Audu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:09:24 -0500

Regards,
Alex.

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From: Jonathan Lennox <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:50:09 -0400

> the following also:  distressed,  ecstatic, furious, restful, lazy, and 

The blogging site LiveJournal <http://www.livejournal.com/> supports more
than 130 different "moods", each with a custom icon, that can accompany a
journal post.  See <http://www.livejournal.com/moodlist.bml>.

Even with that list, users of the site often complain that the list doesn't
include anything that really fits their current emotional state.
Fortunately, the LiveJournal software also allows users to enter custom
moods, though those don't get accompanying icons.

Furthermore, a long list of English words is dubious at best from an
internationalization perspective; the subtle distinctions of meaning in
English words for emotional states are unlikely to have exact translations
into other languages.

Given this experience, I don't think that trying to standardize a finite
list of moods is a very good idea.  If there's to be a "mood" parameter, I
suggest it should probably just be free text of some sort.

-- 
Jonathan Lennox
[email-masked]

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From: Jonathan Lennox <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:50:09 -0400

-- 
Jonathan Lennox
[email-masked]

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From: Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:25:26 -0400

> comes immediately to mind as one of the basic human emotions. :-)

I'm guessing that these are the moods of some avatar in a MUD or other 
multi-person game the spec writer was playing at the time :-)

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From: Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:25:26 -0400