Subject: RE: [Simple] RE: [Sipping] RE: text/T140 and audio/t140was:[avt]Comments/questions on draft-ietf-av

From: "Arnoud van Wijk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:55:30 +0200

Guido and all,

AMEN!

And as I mentioned in a previous e-mail.
Do you want to try how well IM is for every call? Try for a week or month
not to place a phonecall (voice). Just use IM in that case. Then you can see
the limitations that IM has when you need to communicate in real-time,
discuss things or even simply to reach the other person directly on the
other side of the line.

Greetings from an Interactive text AND IM user who will use BOTH every day.

Arnoud

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of Guido Gybels
Sent: donderdag 24 juni 2004 10:41
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked];
[email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Simple] RE: [Sipping] RE: text/T140 and
audio/t140was:[avt]Comments/questions on draft-ietf-av

Gregg,

I agree with all you say and I'd like to add an important point. It seems we
are going back to discussions we had a year ago. Messaging can NOT replace
interactive text anymore than it replaces voice communication for hearing
people. I have attached the short paper that I wrote for last year's IETF
discussion on this topic.

One critical issue is that of relay communications: if you want to use a
relay service for text-to-speech, like for example RNID Typetalk, messaging
simply does not work at all. Streamed, character by character text is a MUST
for that type of conversation.

Best wishes,

Guido

Guido Gybels
Director of New Technologies

RNID, 19-23 Featherstone Street
London EC1Y 8SL, UK
Tel +44(0)20-7294 3713
Fax +44(0)20-7296 8069

>>> "Gregg Vanderheiden" <[email-masked]> 06/23/04 04:25pm >>>
Hi all

A sixpack of quick comments. 

1 - if you don't have anything else, a phone keypad for text entry and even
a 12 character display is wonderful.   The alternative is nothing.

2 - if possible, any type or size of keyboard with one key per character is
better easier simpler faster.

3 - real time text (rather than messages) is much better for conversations.
4
  - even 5 second message delay breaks all of our conversational protocols
and expectations and leads to interruptions, misinterpretations of intent
etc -- especially if one of the communicators is used to speech.  Delays
beyond this are another form of communication (messaging) which is not bad
it just is not conversation.   It is definitely communication, interaction,
a lot of things.  But it differs from conversation as we know it. 

5 - it would be great to have bridges between messaging and conversation
technologies to use when conversation technologies are not possible or
available for some reason. 

6 - messaging is preferred by some and for some situations.  It is not
inferior - it is just different.  It will be better at some tasks and worse
at others. 

Gregg

 -- ------------------------------ 
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 

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From: "Guido Gybels" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:15:16 +0100

Gregg,

<<Anyone disagree with any of these?>>

No, I think you summarised it very well.
Thanks!

Guido