Subject: Re: [Simple] WG call for comment: Auth48 changes to winfo-package

From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 22:21:40 -0400

inline.

Ben Campbell wrote:

> I agree with all the changes, with one question below:
> 
> On Jul 29, 2004, at 6:07 AM, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>
>> OLD:
>>
>> Watcherinfo notifications MAY be generated for watcher information on
>>    package foo, when the subscription state for a user on package foo
>>    changes. The watcher information package therefore needs a model of
>>    subscription state.
>>
>> NEW (add text and split into two paragraphs):
>>
>> Each watcherinfo subscription is associated with a set of "inner" 
>> subscriptions being watched. This set is defined by the URI in the 
>> Request URI of the watcherinfo SUBSCRIBE request, along with the 
>> parent event package of the watcherinfo subscription. The parent event 
>> package is obtained by removing the trailing ".winfo" from the value 
>> of the Event header field from the watcherinfo SUBSCRIBE request. If 
>> the Event header field in the watcherinfo subscription has a value of 
>> "presence.winfo", the parent event package is "presence". If the Event 
>> header field has a value of "presence.winfo.winfo", the parent event 
>> package is "presence.winfo". Normally, the URI in the Request URI of 
>> the watcherinfo SUBSCRIBE identifies an address-of-record within the 
>> domain. In that case, the set of subscriptions to be watched are all 
>> of the subscriptions for the parent event package that have been made 
>> to the resource in the Request URI of the watcherinfo SUBSCRIBE. 
>> However, the Request URI can contin a URI that defines a larger 
>> collection of resources. For example, sip:[email-masked] 
>> might be defined within example.com to refer to all resources. In that 
>> case, a watcherinfo subscription for "presence.winfo" to 
>> sip:[email-masked] is requesting notifications any time the 
>> state of any presence subscription for any resource within example.com 
>> changes. A watcherinfo notifier MAY generate a notification any time 
>> the state of any of the watched subscriptions changes.
>>
> 
> Do you mean to only allow winfo subscriptions to _larger_ scopes that 
> "all subscribers to a resource?" Is it possible to have something like 
> "sip:[email-masked]" that only tells me about watchers 
> in the AoL domain, but not watchers from some other domain?

I'm not sure I follow.

The problem which caused me to introduce this text is that winfo is 
based on a subscription to subscriptions, but it never actually 
explicitly says how you identify the "inner" subscriptions that your 
winfo subscription applies to! We *assumed* that, if the r-uri of the 
winfo subscribe was an AOR, this meant, "I'm interested in all 
subscriptions to this AOR". However, we explicitly designed winfo format 
to allow for more than one resource to be reported, so presumably, the 
request URI could identify a larger set of resources than just one user. 
The text above clarifies that, and gives an example of a URI that 
identifies all of the users in a domain.

I'm not sure I see how your example differs from the one in the text I 
have suggested.

-Jonathan R.

-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D.                600 Lanidex Plaza
Chief Technology Officer                    Parsippany, NJ 07054-2711
dynamicsoft
[email-masked]                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net                      PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

_______________________________________________
Simple mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple

---

From: Ben Campbell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:28:52 -0500

Inline:

On Jul 31, 2004, at 9:21 PM, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:

[...]

>>> parent event package of the watcherinfo subscription. The parent 
>>> event package is obtained by removing the trailing ".winfo" from the 
>>> value of the Event header field from the watcherinfo SUBSCRIBE 
>>> request. If the Event header field in the watcherinfo subscription 
>>> has a value of "presence.winfo", the parent event package is 
>>> "presence". If the Event header field has a value of 
>>> "presence.winfo.winfo", the parent event package is 
>>> "presence.winfo". Normally, the URI in the Request URI of the 
>>> watcherinfo SUBSCRIBE identifies an address-of-record within the 
>>> of the subscriptions for the parent event package that have been 
>>> made to the resource in the Request URI of the watcherinfo 
>>> SUBSCRIBE. However, the Request URI can contin a URI that defines a 
>>> larger collection of resources. For example, 
>>> sip:[email-masked] might be defined within example.com to 
>>> refer to all resources. In that case, a watcherinfo subscription for 
>>> "presence.winfo" to sip:[email-masked] is requesting 
>>> notifications any time the state of any presence subscription for 
>>> any resource within example.com changes. A watcherinfo notifier MAY 
>>> generate a notification any time the state of any of the watched 
>>> subscriptions changes.
>>>
>> "all subscribers to a resource?" Is it possible to have something 
>> like "sip:[email-masked]" that only tells me about 
>> watchers in the AoL domain, but not watchers from some other domain?
>
> I'm not sure I follow.
>
> subscriptions to this AOR". However, we explicitly designed winfo 
> format to allow for more than one resource to be reported, so 
> presumably, the request URI could identify a larger set of resources 
> than just one user. The text above clarifies that, and gives an 
> example of a URI that identifies all of the users in a domain.
>

In retrospect, I do not think my question has any interoperability 
impact, so please do not block the author's 48 on this discussion.

The point of my question was, is this mechanism intended _only_ for 
creating subscriptions to inner subscriptions of more than one AoR at a 
time (i.e. at scopes larger than "all subscriptions to one AoR:", or 
can it be used to identify _any_ set of inner subscriptions. My example 
was intended to portray a scope of  " some subscriptions to an AoR", as 
a smaller scope than "all subscriptions to an AoR"

Or more succinctly, do we intend the R-URI of a winfo subscription to 
be able to refer to any arbitrary named set of inner subscriptions, or 
do we intend it to only be able to refer to all inner subscriptions for 
one AoR or a group of AoRs?

---

From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:39:53 -0400

Ben Campbell wrote:

> time (i.e. at scopes larger than "all subscriptions to one AoR:", or can 
> it be used to identify _any_ set of inner subscriptions. My example was 
> intended to portray a scope of  " some subscriptions to an AoR", as a 
> smaller scope than "all subscriptions to an AoR".

Ah, I understand.

> 
> Or more succinctly, do we intend the R-URI of a winfo subscription to be 
> able to refer to any arbitrary named set of inner subscriptions, or do 
> we intend it to only be able to refer to all inner subscriptions for one 
> AoR or a group of AoRs?

I think its a matter of policy. If the administrator of a domain wishes 
for a URI to be defined which defines a subset of the subscriptions to 
an AOR, it can do that. Indeed, even if the URI *is* the AOR for a user 
(i.e., [email-masked]), the winfo subscription might only convey a 
subset of the inner subscriptions. This is explicitly called out in the 
document, which talks about the fact that a user can subscribe to winfo 
for a resource, and only get winfo notifications about their own 
subscriptions.

I suggest changing this line above:

However, the Request URI can contin a URI that defines a
larger collection of resources.

to:

However, the Request URI can contain a URI that identifies any set of 
subscriptions, including the subscriptions to a larger collection of 
resources.

Does that clarify?

Thanks,
Jonathan R.

---

From: Ben Campbell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:45:39 -0500

On Aug 9, 2004, at 1:39 PM, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
>
> I think its a matter of policy. If the administrator of a domain 
> wishes for a URI to be defined which defines a subset of the 
> subscriptions to an AOR, it can do that. Indeed, even if the URI *is* 
> the AOR for a user (i.e., [email-masked]), the winfo subscription 
> might only convey a subset of the inner subscriptions. This is 
> explicitly called out in the document, which talks about the fact that 
> a user can subscribe to winfo for a resource, and only get winfo 
> notifications about their own subscriptions.
>
>

Yes, thank you--that is exactly what I was trying to say.