Subject: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected

From: "A. Jean Mahoney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 10:31:18 -0500

Hi all,

This is a call for adoption of the draft-burger-sipcore-rejected in the 
SIPCORE working group.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-burger-sipcore-rejected/

Please send your comments to the list or to the chairs by August 13.

Thanks!

Jean

---

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 11:57:57 -0400

I think it's a good idea :-)

Bless or curse LEMONADE for mobile email. See https://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/lemonade
-------- Original message --------From: "A. Jean Mahoney" <[email-masked]> Date: 7/30/18  11:31 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: SIPCORE <[email-masked]> Subject: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected 
Hi all,

Thanks!

Jean

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---

From: "Asveren, Tolga" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 16:41:45 +0000

I support adoption.

Thanks,
Tolga

From: sipcore <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of A. Jean Mahoney
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 11:31 AM
To: SIPCORE <[email-masked]>
Subject: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected

________________________________
NOTICE: This email was received from an EXTERNAL sender
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Hi all,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-burger-sipcore-rejected/<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-burger-sipcore-rejected/>

Thanks!

Jean

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---

From: "DOLLY, MARTIN C" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 15:39:54 +0000

AT&T supports

Martin C Dolly
AT&T
Lead Member of Technical Staff
Core Network & Gov’t Regulatory Standards
+1 609 903 3360

> On Jul 30, 2018, at 11:33 AM, A. Jean Mahoney <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> This is a call for adoption of the draft-burger-sipcore-rejected in the SIPCORE working group.
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dburger-2Dsipcore-2Drejected_&d=DwICAg&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=G9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g&m=3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8&s=hFreLnwJ-UXYOJgYbWq_iuvqmk8RgdMc6O2lADoknEM&e=
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_sipcore&d=DwICAg&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=G9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g&m=3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8&s=Nd2plF7-pZuvRsmF0Fr7_fZIACVD0g-Lmj0FZFb0XKY&e=

---

From: Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 14:18:23 -0400

+1
(as opposed to the AT&T +254,000 :-)

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 11:39 AM, DOLLY, MARTIN C <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__
> datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dburger-2Dsipcore-
> 2Drejected_&d=DwICAg&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=G9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g&m=
> 3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8&s=hFreLnwJ-UXYOJgYbWq_
> iuvqmk8RgdMc6O2lADoknEM&e=
> >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
> ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_sipcore&d=DwICAg&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=
> G9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g&m=3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8&
> s=Nd2plF7-pZuvRsmF0Fr7_fZIACVD0g-Lmj0FZFb0XKY&e=
>

---

From: Richard Shockey <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 15:24:12 -0400

I'm all in ...

— 
Richard Shockey

Shockey Consulting LLC

Chairman of the Board SIP Forum

www.shockey.us

www.sipforum.org

richard<at>shockey.us

Skype-Linkedin-Facebook –Twitter  rshockey101

PSTN +1 703-593-2683

On 7/30/18, 11:31 AM, "sipcore on behalf of A. Jean Mahoney" <[email-masked] on behalf of [email-masked]> wrote:

    Hi all,

    
    
    Thanks!
    
    Jean

---

From: "Gorman, Pierce A [CTO]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 19:33:31 +0000

Approve, with hope illegal robocallers implement logic to respect 608 (instead of what we’ve often observed them do with SIP 6xx which is ignore it).

Pierce

From: sipcore [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Henning Schulzrinne
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:18 PM
To: A. Jean Mahoney <[email-masked]>
Cc: SIPCORE <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

+1

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 11:39 AM, DOLLY, MARTIN C <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
AT&T supports

Martin C Dolly
AT&T

> On Jul 30, 2018, at 11:33 AM, A. Jean Mahoney <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dburger-2Dsipcore-2Drejected_&d=DwICAg&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=G9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g&m=3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8&s=hFreLnwJ-UXYOJgYbWq_iuvqmk8RgdMc6O2lADoknEM&e=<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dburger-2Dsipcore-2Drejected_%26d%3DDwICAg%26c%3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg%26r%3DG9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g%26m%3D3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8%26s%3DhFreLnwJ-UXYOJgYbWq_iuvqmk8RgdMc6O2lADoknEM%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cpierce.gorman%40sprint.com%7C573508ec5f464fc706ec08d5f649055e%7C4f8bc0acbd784bf5b55f1b31301d9adf%7C0%7C0%7C636685715848778348&sdata=%2BlAGzromsa%2FDqdEjez6Mpum4QLGNCxGvvQ5%2FcbeaM2Q%3D&reserved=0>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_sipcore&d=DwICAg&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=G9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g&m=3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8&s=Nd2plF7-pZuvRsmF0Fr7_fZIACVD0g-Lmj0FZFb0XKY&e=<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_sipcore%26d%3DDwICAg%26c%3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg%26r%3DG9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g%26m%3D3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8%26s%3DNd2plF7-pZuvRsmF0Fr7_fZIACVD0g-Lmj0FZFb0XKY%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cpierce.gorman%40sprint.com%7C573508ec5f464fc706ec08d5f649055e%7C4f8bc0acbd784bf5b55f1b31301d9adf%7C0%7C0%7C636685715848778348&sdata=3gAOAW66arK6kGDEozriP176HGbeVt52EUouJ3MC1d4%3D&reserved=0>

_______________________________________________
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---

From: "Asveren, Tolga" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 19:40:23 +0000

Just wondering: Why would that be needed? 608 is meant to be used by valid callers whose calls are falsely rejected by Network Analytics.

Thanks,
Tolga

From: sipcore <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Gorman, Pierce A [CTO]
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 3:34 PM
To: Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>; A. Jean Mahoney <[email-masked]>
Cc: SIPCORE <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected

Pierce

From: sipcore [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Henning Schulzrinne
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:18 PM
To: A. Jean Mahoney <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
Cc: SIPCORE <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected

+1

Martin C Dolly
AT&T

---

From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 17:34:22 -0400

+1

>      > On Jul 30, 2018, at 11:33 AM, A. Jean Mahoney
>     <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>      >
>      > Hi all,
>      >
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dburger-2Dsipcore-2Drejected_&d=DwICAg&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=G9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g&m=3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8&s=hFreLnwJ-UXYOJgYbWq_iuvqmk8RgdMc6O2lADoknEM&e=>
>      >
>      > [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>      >
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_sipcore&d=DwICAg&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=G9v8uCSSQhCmpw7ItG0r2g&m=3fzjcaNQ5g8bjv_PDp3XPTduUE2YckZtNypByy8v_C8&s=Nd2plF7-pZuvRsmF0Fr7_fZIACVD0g-Lmj0FZFb0XKY&e=>
> 
>     [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore>
> 
> 
> 
>

---

From: "Gorman, Pierce A [CTO]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 22:09:31 +0000

Just wondering: Why are you asking?  (Please respond privately to prevent SPAM.)

I was referring to the penultimate paragraph of section 1 which indicates mostly illegal calls will be rejected (we hope).  My point is 6xx is often disregarded but it would be nice if it wasn’t, especially by illegal robocallers whose persistence in the face of 6xx is burdensome (and annoying).

From: Asveren, Tolga [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 2:40 PM
To: Gorman, Pierce A [CTO] <[email-masked]>; Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>; A. Jean Mahoney <[email-masked]>
Cc: SIPCORE <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected

Thanks,
Tolga

From: sipcore <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> On Behalf Of Gorman, Pierce A [CTO]
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 3:34 PM
To: Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>; A. Jean Mahoney <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
Cc: SIPCORE <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected

Pierce

+1

Martin C Dolly
AT&T

---

From: Christer Holmberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 06:33:01 +0000

+1

Regards,

Christer

-----Original Message-----
From: sipcore [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of A. Jean Mahoney
Sent: 30 July 2018 18:31
To: SIPCORE <[email-masked]>
Subject: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected

Hi all,

Thanks!

Jean

---

From: "Asveren, Tolga" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 17:19:08 +0000

Replying on the list as this pertains to the semantics/security for 608.

I don’t think illegal user not interpreting/ignoring 608 is a bad thing per se. Actually I would argue that it is better so that it is not aware about the Network Analytics decision. OTOH, we can’ assume that we are “lucky” and should factor in how this response can be used/abused by such actors.

There is already some text about this in the “6. Security Considerations” section:

Intermediary operators need to be mindful of whom they are sending
   the 608 response to.  There is a risk that a truly malicious caller
   is being rejected.  This raises two issues.  The first is the caller,
   being alerted their call is being automatically rejected, may change
   their call behavior to defeat call blocking systems.  The second, and
   more significant risk, is that by providing a contact modality in the
   Call-Info field, the intermediary may be giving the malicious caller
   a vector for attack.  In other words, the intermediary will be
   publishing an address that a malicious actor may use to launch an
   attack on the intermediary.  Because of this, intermediary operators
   may wish to configure their response to only include a Call-Info
   field for INVITE or other initiating methods that are signed and pass
   validation by STIR [RFC8224<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8224>].

Thanks,
Tolga

From: Gorman, Pierce A [CTO] <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 6:10 PM
To: Asveren, Tolga <[email-masked]>; Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>; A. Jean Mahoney <[email-masked]>
Cc: SIPCORE <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [sipcore] Call for WG adoption: draft-burger-sipcore-rejected

To: Gorman, Pierce A [CTO] <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>; Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>; A. Jean Mahoney <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>

Thanks,
Tolga

Pierce

+1

Martin C Dolly
AT&T