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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b18-v6sm17288607pgk.15.2018.10.01.01.38.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 01 Oct 2018 01:38:45 -0700 (PDT) To: sipcore@ietf.org Cc: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <870438cd-8d0c-b6fa-30bb-d221c2e52422@alum.mit.edu> <986a3a46-12df-80fd-b9c0-381e4b560db3@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 17:38:42 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180930-2, 2018/09/30), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 08:38:48 -0000 Hi Paul, When b2bua controls a whole SIP system, session timer is not necessary. If turn-off logic is available, the server can prohibit unnecessary traff= ic. Regards, Shinji On 2018/09/30 2:33, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > Hi Shinji, > > On 9/29/18 8:35 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >> Hi Paul, >> It's been a while. ;-) >> >> =C2=A0> This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-= E if it wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't. >> >> I think that is the primary cause of some problems. >> A proxy's discretion is too big. UAs can not predict a behavior of a p= roxy. >> >> The following rules may simplify this problem, >> 1. If a UAC supports timer, proxy must not add SE header to the reques= t. >> 2. If a UAS supports timer, proxy must neither add nor modify SE heade= r in the response. >> >> At least these will make UAs to turn-off successfully. > > I think this is backward. The prime motivation for timers is so that pr= oxies have a way to monitor the liveness of a session. The reason for UAs= to support timers is to render assistance to proxies that need this to m= anage state that they hold about sessions. The UA doesn't know in advance= if there are any proxies on the path that need this, so it should typica= lly only indicate support, and wait for proxies to express a desire. > > Remember that UAs that desire to periodically test the liveness of a se= ssion don't need session timer to do so. They can send an in dialog reque= st at any time. > > I don't understand why a UA would request a session timer on its own. O= TOH, it *might* want to specify Min-S-E initially to avoid being asked to= do too much work. > > BTW, I think having some discussion like this in the document would be = very helpful. > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks, > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Paul > > >> Regards, >> Shinji >> >> On 2018/09/29 1:28, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>> On 9/28/18 5:05 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >>>> Hi, >>> >>> Hi Shinji! I don't hear from you very often. Glad to see you here! >>> >>>> It's about time we check up concrete protocol sequences. >>>> If you notice any irregular behavior, please comment on the problem,= >>> >>> These all seem good to me, except comment at end. >> (snip) >>>> [scenario 9] turn-off >>>> 1. Alice sends UPDATE INVITE without SE >>>> 2. no proxies add SE to the request >>>> 3. Bob returns 200 without SE >>>> >>>> 1: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC >>>> 2: Require rules to specify proxy behavior >>>> 3: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC >>> >>> I don't understand what you mean or are asking about 2 in scenario 9.= >>> This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it= wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't. >>> >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks, >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Paul=20 >> > From nobody Mon Oct 1 09:08:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D094130E11 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 09:08:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6a-YQadCbkNQ for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu [18.7.68.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B7B130E05 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074413-125ff70000000b2e-e8-5bb246669144 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 5A.8B.02862.66642BB5; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 12:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w91G83Kg017310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 1 Oct 2018 12:08:04 -0400 To: OKUMURA Shinji , sipcore@ietf.org Cc: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <870438cd-8d0c-b6fa-30bb-d221c2e52422@alum.mit.edu> <986a3a46-12df-80fd-b9c0-381e4b560db3@gmail.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 12:08:03 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrAKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqJvmtinaoHWPisWFmYcZLZb0r2Gz mHFhKrPF1x+b2BxYPH59vcrmsXPWXXaPJUt+MnncmlIQwBLFZZOSmpNZllqkb5fAlbHwV2rB M+mKLVunMDYwPhHtYuTkkBAwkdj+poMNxBYS2MEk0XTSsYuRC8h+wCTxe+ZBpi5GDg5hgUKJ hgdCIDUiAjYS8y7NZwMJMwskSXzpYYUo38YiceruNEaQGjYBLYk5h/6zgNi8AvYSn990MoLU swioSFxYbAsSFhVIk/jbuYQRokRQ4uTMJ2DlnAK2Elt2TAezmQXMJOZtfsgMYYtL3HoynwnC lpdo3jqbeQKjwCwk7bOQtMxC0jILScsCRpZVjHKJOaW5urmJmTnFqcm6xcmJeXmpRbrmermZ JXqpKaWbGCEBLryDcddJuUOMAhyMSjy8DPKbooVYE8uKK3MPMUpyMCmJ8uqJAYX4kvJTKjMS izPii0pzUosPMUpwMCuJ8O4EKedNSaysSi3Kh0lJc7AoifMym+yNEhJITyxJzU5NLUgtgsnK cHAoSfB2uwI1ChalpqdWpGXmlCCkmTg4QYbzAA1fDFLDW1yQmFucmQ6RP8VoybHna9MMZo5t ZzqBZNvT6zOYhVjy8vNSpcR5s0EaBEAaMkrz4GbCEtYrRnGgF4V5O0GqeIDJDm7qK6CFTEAL G0s3gCwsSURISTUwGv54sKNGsetn24xjm5Q9XmxmPpTWcu5aXL6m14qS3DdT+aN1OE9t+q7I cOKa0efmt7UXpJRn9b6Kb1x9t6tKg3fBMX1Z1nsMcW1nA+MXZK9qel379GGZg1lu6qpPkwo3 nN3q4Tz7wml3tt3MCb/Y37o8zZtYtjj96BPW1FkXEitF2p00ltn7KLEUZyQaajEXFScCAH6C EgszAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 16:08:10 -0000 Hi Shinji, On 10/1/18 4:38 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi Paul, > > When b2bua controls a whole SIP system, session timer is not necessary. > If turn-off logic is available, the server can prohibit unnecessary traffic. If a b2bua is in the path then this document only applies in the path between it another ua. There could still be a proxy that requires session timer in that path. There is conflict between allowing a UA to force the timer off and allowing a proxy in the path that *needs* the timer. In any case, a UA that wants to refuse to do session timer can do so by simply not indicating support for it. When I talk about turning the timer off in the context of this document I simply mean on end indicating it prefers not to have it, so that it will be negotiated off if nobody else on the path needs it. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > Shinji > > On 2018/09/30 2:33, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> Hi Shinji, >> >> On 9/29/18 8:35 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>> It's been a while. ;-) >>> >>>  > This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't. >>> >>> I think that is the primary cause of some problems. >>> A proxy's discretion is too big. UAs can not predict a behavior of a proxy. >>> >>> The following rules may simplify this problem, >>> 1. If a UAC supports timer, proxy must not add SE header to the request. >>> 2. If a UAS supports timer, proxy must neither add nor modify SE header in the response. >>> >>> At least these will make UAs to turn-off successfully. >> >> I think this is backward. The prime motivation for timers is so that proxies have a way to monitor the liveness of a session. The reason for UAs to support timers is to render assistance to proxies that need this to manage state that they hold about sessions. The UA doesn't know in advance if there are any proxies on the path that need this, so it should typically only indicate support, and wait for proxies to express a desire. >> >> Remember that UAs that desire to periodically test the liveness of a session don't need session timer to do so. They can send an in dialog request at any time. >> >> I don't understand why a UA would request a session timer on its own. OTOH, it *might* want to specify Min-S-E initially to avoid being asked to do too much work. >> >> BTW, I think having some discussion like this in the document would be very helpful. >> >>     Thanks, >>     Paul >> >> >>> Regards, >>> Shinji >>> >>> On 2018/09/29 1:28, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>>> On 9/28/18 5:05 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Hi Shinji! I don't hear from you very often. Glad to see you here! >>>> >>>>> It's about time we check up concrete protocol sequences. >>>>> If you notice any irregular behavior, please comment on the problem, >>>> >>>> These all seem good to me, except comment at end. >>> (snip) >>>>> [scenario 9] turn-off >>>>> 1. Alice sends UPDATE INVITE without SE >>>>> 2. no proxies add SE to the request >>>>> 3. Bob returns 200 without SE >>>>> >>>>> 1: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC >>>>> 2: Require rules to specify proxy behavior >>>>> 3: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC >>>> >>>> I don't understand what you mean or are asking about 2 in scenario 9. >>>> This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't. >>>> >>>>     Thanks, >>>>     Paul >>> >> > > > From nobody Mon Oct 1 22:02:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C51912872C for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 22:02:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG=0.377, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, MISSING_MIMEOLE=1.899, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cGxC_sv8eGQE for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 22:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [212.227.15.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E07B127133 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 22:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.103.2.119] ([202.175.115.43]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb001 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MgfXb-1gL9323V83-00O3G8; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 07:02:40 +0200 Received: from [10.103.2.119] ([202.175.115.43]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb001 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MgfXb-1gL9323V83-00O3G8; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 07:02:40 +0200 Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 13:02:30 +0800 Message-ID: <251e6f26-0975-47c9-9268-79bed27c6f35@email.android.com> X-Android-Message-ID: <251e6f26-0975-47c9-9268-79bed27c6f35@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: From: roland.jesske@web.de To: Roman Shpount Cc: Christer Holmberg , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qsU3yoV0kdu8SQX5ccLwATfmrtHE6SWKPrwd9HvUGAS4uGWSjsh +raDTj2S6pwNXz+rvLKNXoK91LP/utQmoHtdEhr0c5GU2WmuGSJGGs4xo15GL1O7pUSyjcJ U7d57fbu3qtmg8/2cYl65VcGsB8dM155RgMC+8iyIxupGqYanoPeKlGSpYeCQ1keDMyuUWp w0Q8WMP4nsol9F5TZsHIg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:3F5/N0c1Otg=:dNfeOFhpK5DY26SuYf8j6h +oX3FgkTK5sIFZVg00dLIF2uyg8YofYrMvMS5AHx76xOAhhoVe9iGw28+j44dUYYEwqFW1cEX m3HblUMh3LvoyNn4wBf4yA/M3pwf39X1uPVLaiJNsf61jza+FBYmn5YHHHjlkVLW8pi9KOT3w DUr2rJb5OVbOgXmjHaJztR4giLQgHDM/uFfLnfBCCoO6OSPXs5tSQyqTjLyqMcT8JePonZ4G5 6XZKz9AWLfqpYd/Iy1UrzQqlnNgC2ebrQX62IyJ44eArmKzpwTirieNodfjCE/jmui1zfUzkW Dr3sW7Ab53SkHsCg57YIAsHhpgK1d7BvEv/VTT/r1b6eNzmdyCvqYnTni6AssjIo73HJqFtcd eCd9rS1otxM7na+vGKSPHuV4fD8ONUoMsR/07mFfvzNNkE5gLgTSguIfiKOUxC7NujsTF7VHm SAEnzLHcfC8bqPR1JneAgNSwxLdtE3kg5Jr0zjZ6lWCgh3sbml9EpWDkusxg/lf3/eravTLGI b8JloS1i0aCuKjOPNrsIxsAKAVD04LN2D1dLcXAN5uBe7/urAeMD63MaATXAZEI66/iDaJM0k vVeWKtQeYUJAFpNopbK8wlKNQSCud+fqJQt1TjK9pzVhGMk7b7MSsXhfEmQC+WpQFnV0KLIXM 4/sq0tAmkoCrdUhHRD1Zp+rypya9zJWcNXGGDRnFa23AnyrvWIJsmDZqAJ39ybhHO8RrcDO6A RzEFKz/JxXdsU7SlkPvRVmiAkAwOaSjC6Cnu7RG7VTH8OaAOh7on+K8CUMk1SS+Yh8oUlP9B2 irZNNKp7nTqHp8KQwE+N/+0tqALXCU43bVZ+pbrCMkH+TxG94I= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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Tue, 02 Oct 2018 07:12:40 +0200 Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 13:12:28 +0800 Message-ID: X-Android-Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: roland.jesske@web.de To: Paul Kyzivat Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , sipcore@ietf.org, Roman Shpount Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:keqRENynFQqu2PRh13trpJPtznU7SfMZFgJYArTU3G97PWiXQgj A3palzT8pyUIm+tKKAmvwG3M5nUU38sbIcCCRi3EKsmvhVbsGHyI/REC+SG30B/HQSmszVg y/VOuk+d8QRy7tErCRzsAStNccmZqiMvgKsSaIzoUtQNxcoN1o+B1eJNULU1H6+IGfBPsrq TDgbmRwLRD9UAfhWLc4bQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:B0VySAZ0TVE=:A+WzY2eb+yue62ayE4mxXl Ke57odAtsLRb0/x5zKurKdA2iD542lCapgYpoC8bMex3/OVpDVpX0bl6EVPyPLlqbdtXh2WA3 OtieUYfCarr8TExNKnrb56eQ7TR8Wp915WIUF8BiAUGu1tpLfPRXVCklOU1Nm1+XXMI4G2G/H ooihMr7Bwo6msBwMLeEQo6YAq/yt91GWLKlDkYgrTQvUwbUiso5vLPYpU63pnnXix9ZtJHzWt 8DfGndPHUZyNyLPp0Udr2EyAzoy+tHfReWa6zXhVjnJKy5cJ2RX6zr1oili5+nDpA5CY5EZql ydjIleaL55BqFbKV2eoAU+3r1rAH3Gpp4aVbI6pASMd40cgG8RQ0YfETrVR2+fWBuKHi23opl eEUH4qVJ3awdJLiGr3+i9Dv/4eUjpBaPPUZeCd8k0rlY7SebhundlW4IYA9Ea7/IGYfcuf7Wk z7ezWHGV/WLLCSGDDWJUOPKM5kaoDc8PCEhw4fAgIJEIDATszwKjwU65NyusClmF2KxpgqE8p vb5txLQeFU6s+0rG/CFMTTZpGgQownEtUtDf1ioONmhUKHDzS3V6/qQkPE/W6wsoYOdC9lt9i Ai7QxzsfuxcPx2ihDYwA1y+MJKmmn5BaX8ZPWOofbFIexiwjrwXip6UT3TCtQNSx18c2wsECP q2fItSWV2qL12LNw3wldkSRSHxgrN9DjXahXhB3jTkRXixyqndQMGkpap07FegsfREzt4sABt VdnuU2MMyz4QK9O9VJ/Jbdf7yRUgnLZrmn8zJ6MF77F/Rue2HzNmH1vlcLWI4DMq1dOZCjDkc uqFP1eMBQGJJPIuP7pVAnrR1eHJLEsqGZybvR/feCqdGm8HUFg= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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CjxwIGRpcj0ibHRyIj5fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXzxicj4Kc2lwY29yZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Q8YnI+CnNpcGNvcmVAaWV0Zi5vcmc8YnI+Cmh0 dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc2lwY29yZTxicj4KPC9wPgo8L2Js b2NrcXVvdGU+PC9kaXY+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2Pg== From nobody Mon Oct 1 22:36:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B860C1277BB for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 22:36:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.241 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.241 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG=0.377, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, MISSING_MIMEOLE=1.899, RCVD_IN_SBL=0.141, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p62-v6sm10229797pfp.111.2018.10.02.02.58.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Oct 2018 02:58:03 -0700 (PDT) To: "sipcore@ietf.org" Cc: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 18:58:01 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181002-0, 2018/10/02), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 09:58:09 -0000 SGkgUGF1bCwNCg0KT2YgY291cnNlIEkgdGhvdWdodCB0aGF0IGFsbCBzZXJ2ZXJzIHRoYXQg cmVxdWlyZSBhIHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIgYXJlIHNlc3Npb24tc3RhdGVmdWwuDQpCdXQgUkZD NDAyOCBkb2VzIG5vdCBzYXkgY2xlYXJseSB0aGF0IHRoZSBwcm94eSBtdXN0IGJlIHNlc3Np b24tc3RhdGVmdWwuDQoNCkF0IHRoZSBlbmQgb2YgdGhlIGRheSwgaW4geW91ciBvcGluaW9u IHNob3VsZCBTRSBvZiAoMikgYW5kIFNFIG9mICg0KSBiZSBjb25zaXN0ZW50IG9yIG5vdD8N Cg0KUmVnYXJkcywNClNoaW5qaQ0KDQpPbiAyMDE4LzA5LzMwIDI6MzcsIFBhdWwgS3l6aXZh dCB3cm90ZToNCj4gT24gOS8yOS8xOCAxMjowMyBQTSwgT0tVTVVSQSBTaGluamkgd3JvdGU6 DQo+PiBIaSBhbGwsDQo+Pg0KPj4gRmlyc3Qgb2YgYWxsIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCBpdCBpcyBu ZWNlc3NhcnkgdG8gY2hlY2sgb3VyIGdvYWwsIGRvIHlvdQ0KPj4gYWNjZXB0IGluY29uc2lz dGVuY2llcyBmb3IgU0Utc3RhdGUgYmV0d2VlbiBJTlZJVEUgdHJhbnNhY3Rpb24gYW5kDQo+ 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X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:26:23 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB478299F12106382C2BD2F87F93E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, The RFC says: "Although the user agents may be able to determine whether the session has timed out by using session specific mechanisms, proxies will not be able to do so. The result is that call stateful proxies will not always be able to determine whether a session is still active. For instance, when a user agent fails to send a BYE message at the end of a session, or when the BYE message gets lost due to network problems, a call stateful proxy will not know when the session has ended." At least in my eyes that makes it very clear that it is about session stat= e. Unless a proxy keeps session state, it has no need to know whether a sessio= n has expired - it does not care. Even with Roman's charging case, in order to send charging information asso= ciated with a session, the proxy needs to keep session state. Regards, Christer ________________________________ From: OKUMURA Shinji Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 12:58 PM To: sipcore@ietf.org Cc: Paul Kyzivat; Roman Shpount; Christer Holmberg Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVIT= E - is it a session refresh request? Hi Paul, Of course I thought that all servers that require a session timer are sessi= on-stateful. But RFC4028 does not say clearly that the proxy must be session-stateful. At the end of the day, in your opinion should SE of (2) and SE of (4) be co= nsistent or not? Regards, Shinji On 2018/09/30 2:37, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 9/29/18 12:03 PM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> First of all I think that it is necessary to check our goal, do you >> accept inconsistencies for SE-state between INVITE transaction and >> UPDATE one. >> >> If you accept them, the proxy should be only transaction-stateful and >> record-route is unnecessary. >> Otherwise the proxy should be dialog-stateful(call-stateful) and >> record-route is necessary. >> In other words SE-state must be one of a dialog state. >> And maybe we need rules that make an UPDATE request not to intersect a >> success response for INVITE. >> >> Paul seems to be the former, Christer seems to be the latter. >> I am the latter. Which one are you, Roman? > > ISTM that the likely reason why a proxy wants a session timer is because = it is session-stateful, and needs a way to know when it can release the ses= sion state. > > If it isn't session stateful then it can ignore all of this. > > Can you think of a reason why a proxy that isn't session stateful would w= ant a session timer? > > Thanks, > Paul > >> Regards, >> Shinji >> >> On 2018/09/29 8:35, Roman Shpount wrote: >>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Christer Holmberg < >>> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> It may not cause a problem in this case, but my point is that we >>>> cannot have a generic rule mandating the >>>>>>>> S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the INVITE response to be identic= al. >>>>>>> I meant to say consistent not identical, i.e. not to change S-E >>>> expiration or refresher on random basis. >>>>>> We just need to make sure we get the wording right: the proxy MUST N= OT >>>> change the S-E expiration, or >>>>>> the refresher, in the "mid-INVITE" UPDATE request/response, but in s= ome >>>> cases it will not indicate the >>>>>> refresher at all. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are some serious implementation issues here. I think some sort= of >>>> cross-transaction correlation needs >>>>>> to occur for session timer to work consistently. Imagine the situati= on >>>> when proxy needs to refresh at least >>>>>> every 15 min. Imagine your scenario where Alice supports session tim= er >>>> and Bob does not. If there is no >>>>>> cross-transaction state correlation then: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alice Proxy Bob >>>>>> |(1) INVITE | | >>>>>> | SE: 600 | | >>>>>> |-------------->| | >>>>>> | |(2) INVITE | >>>>>> | | SE: 600 | >>>>>> | |-------------->| >>>>>> | | | >>>>>> | |(3) UPDATE | >>>>>> | |<--------------| >>>>>> |(4) UPDATE | | >>>>>> | SE: 900 | | >>>>>> |<--------------| | >>>>>> | | | >>>>>> |(5) 200(UPD) | | >>>>>> | SE: 900 | | >>>>>> | refresher=3Duas | | >>>>>> |-------------->| | >>>>>> | |(6) 200(UPD) | >>>>>> | | SE: 900 | >>>>>> | | refresher=3Duas | >>>>>> | |-------------->| >>>>>> | | | >>>>>> | |(7) 200(INV) | >>>>>> | |<--------------| >>>>>> |(8) 200(INV) | | >>>>>> | SE: 600 | | >>>>>> | refresher=3Duac | | >>>>>> |<--------------| | >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600 >>>>>> 2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwards t= he >>>> S-E header as is to Bob >>>>>> 3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E >>>>>> 4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE >>>> transaction state and it needs to refresh every 15 min >>>>>> 5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900;refresher=3Duas >>>>>> 6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not support session timer >>>>>> 7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E since it does not support >>>> session timer >>>>>> 8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E set to >>>> 600;refresher=3Duac >>>>>> As a result Alice is confused about the S-E refresh interval. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sharing cross transaction state for proxy can be a big deal. Differe= nt >>>> transactions might no even end up on >>>>>> the same proxy instance, especially since initial INVITE is sent to = the >>>> pre-configured proxy, but UPDATE is sent >>>>>> based on dialog route set. Furthermore, support for cross transactio= n >>>> dialog state can create a significant additional >>>>>> load on the proxy, since transaction state is usually in memory but >>>> dialog state is typically in database where frequent >>>>>> updates are not desirable. >>>> First, the proxy adding session timer must be stateful. >>>> >>> Stateful means storing transaction state, not state across transactions= . >>> This is something like OpenSIPS tm module and avp ( >>> https://opensips.org/html/docs/modules/2.4.x/tm.html and >>> https://www.opensips.org/Documentation/Script-CoreVar-2-4#varavps). UPD= ATE >>> transaction normally has no access to INVITE transaction state. Even >>> transaction stateful can be a problem for HA or high scale deployment a= nd >>> can cause calls to fail. Converting anything except initial INVITE >>> transaction to stateful is too high of the price to pay for session tim= er. >>> In practice, it would be easier to assume that session timer is support= ed >>> throughout the dialog if it was supported during initial dialog negotia= tion. >>> >>> Second, the proxy adding session timer SHOULD add Record-Route. Perhaps= we >>>> should change that to MUST. Otherwise I really don't see how you inten= d to >>>> solve that cause the confusion... >>>> >>> Record-Route does not help here. There is no way to store changing stat= e >>> for INVITE transaction in Record-Route header. From implementation poin= t of >>> view, dealing with this issue means state for current INVITE transactio= n >>> needs to go into some sort of shared DB (even if it is in-memory DB) wh= ich >>> is accessible from all servers/processes that can handle UPDATE >>> transactions for this dialog. In other words, every time INVITE request= is >>> received, session timer information from this request is stored in DB. = Once >>> INVITE transaction is completed, record for INVITE is removed from DB. >>> Every time UPDATE is message is processed, DB needs to be looked up if >>> there is a current INVITE transaction for this dialog. Of cause, logic = for >>> INVITE collisions and race conditions need to be implemented as well. >>> >>> Reality is unless this can be resolved on the client, these rules are t= oo >>> complicated to be implemented on the proxy so that nobody will do that. >>> Unless there is a way to implement proposed rules using openSIPS or Kam= ilio >>> configuration script, these rules are not going to useful. >>> >>> On the other hand, asking Alice to do one more UPDATE after the INVITE >>> completion if there were any UPDATE transactions during INVITE is much >>> simpler for all involved and unambiguosly resolves all the problems. >>> >>> Regards, >>> _____________ >>> Roman Shpount >>> >> >> > --_000_VI1PR07MB478299F12106382C2BD2F87F93E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

The RFC says:
   "A=
lthough the user agents=0A=
   may be able to determine whether the session has timed out by using=0A=
   session specific mechanisms, proxies will not be able to do so.  The=0A=
   result is that call stateful proxies will not always be able to=0A=
   determine whether a session is still active.  For instance, when a=0A=
   user agent fails to send a BYE message at the end of a session, or=0A=
   when the BYE message gets lost due to network problems, a call=0A=
   stateful proxy will not know when the session has ended."
 At least in my eyes that makes it very clear that= it is about session state.

Unless a proxy keeps session state, it has no need to know whether a session has expired - it does not care.

Even with Roman's charging case, in order to send charging information associated with a session, the proxy needs to keep se= ssion state.

Regards,

Christer





From: OKUMURA Shinji <ie= tf.shinji@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 12:58 PM
To: sipcore@ietf.org
Cc: Paul Kyzivat; Roman Shpount; Christer Holmberg
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/r= e-INVITE - is it a session refresh request?
 
Hi Paul,

Of course I thought that all servers that require a session timer are sessi= on-stateful.
But RFC4028 does not say clearly that the proxy must be session-stateful.
At the end of the day, in your opinion should SE of (2) and SE of (4) be co= nsistent or not?

Regards,
Shinji

On 2018/09/30 2:37, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> On 9/29/18 12:03 PM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> First of all I think that it is necessary to check our goal, do yo= u
>> accept inconsistencies for SE-state between INVITE transaction and=
>> UPDATE one.
>>
>> If you accept them, the proxy should be only transaction-stateful = and
>> record-route is unnecessary.
>> Otherwise the proxy should be dialog-stateful(call-stateful) and >> record-route is necessary.
>> In other words SE-state must be one of a dialog state.
>> And maybe we need rules that make an UPDATE request not to interse= ct a
>> success response for INVITE.
>>
>> Paul seems to be the former, Christer seems to be the latter.
>> I am the latter. Which one are you, Roman?
>
> ISTM that the likely reason why a proxy wants a session timer is becau= se it is session-stateful, and needs a way to know when it can release the = session state.
>
> If it isn't session stateful then it can ignore all of this.
>
> Can you think of a reason why a proxy that isn't session stateful woul= d want a session timer?
>
>     Thanks,
>     Paul
>
>> Regards,
>> Shinji
>>
>> On 2018/09/29 8:35, Roman Shpount wrote:
>>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Christer Holmberg <
>>> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> It may not cause a problem in this case, b= ut my point is that we
>>>> cannot have a generic rule mandating the
>>>>>>>> S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the INVIT= E response to be identical.
>>>>>>> I meant to say consistent not identical, i.e. = not to change S-E
>>>> expiration or refresher on random basis.
>>>>>> We just need to make sure we get the wording right= : the proxy MUST NOT
>>>> change the S-E expiration, or
>>>>>> the refresher, in the "mid-INVITE" UPDAT= E request/response, but in some
>>>> cases it will not indicate the
>>>>>> refresher at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are some serious implementation issues here.= I think some sort of
>>>> cross-transaction correlation needs
>>>>>> to occur for session timer to work consistently. I= magine the situation
>>>> when proxy needs to refresh at least
>>>>>> every 15 min. Imagine your scenario where Alice su= pports session timer
>>>> and Bob does not. If there is no
>>>>>> cross-transaction state correlation then:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alice       &nb= sp;  Proxy          =   Bob
>>>>>> |(1) INVITE     |  &= nbsp;            | >>>>>> | SE: 600       |&nb= sp;            =   |
>>>>>> |-------------->|     =           |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |(2) INVITE     | >>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      | SE: 600     =   |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |-------------->|
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |      &n= bsp;        |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |(3) UPDATE     | >>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |<--------------|
>>>>>> |(4) UPDATE     |  &= nbsp;            | >>>>>> | SE: 900       |&nb= sp;            =   |
>>>>>> |<--------------|     =           |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |      &n= bsp;        |
>>>>>> |(5) 200(UPD)   |    = ;           |
>>>>>> | SE: 900       |&nb= sp;            =   |
>>>>>> | refresher=3Duas |     &= nbsp;         |
>>>>>> |-------------->|     =           |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |(6) 200(UPD)   |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      | SE: 900     =   |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      | refresher=3Duas |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |-------------->|
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |      &n= bsp;        |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |(7) 200(INV)   |
>>>>>> |        &= nbsp;      |<--------------|
>>>>>> |(8) 200(INV)   |    = ;           |
>>>>>> | SE: 600       |&nb= sp;            =   |
>>>>>> | refresher=3Duac |     &= nbsp;         |
>>>>>> |<--------------|     =           |
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600
>>>>>> 2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is = less it forwards the
>>>> S-E header as is to Bob
>>>>>> 3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E
>>>>>> 4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not kn= ow about INVITE
>>>> transaction state and it needs to refresh every 15 min
>>>>>> 5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900= ;refresher=3Duas
>>>>>> 6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not support sess= ion timer
>>>>>> 7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E since it= does not support
>>>> session timer
>>>>>> 8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E s= et to
>>>> 600;refresher=3Duac
>>>>>> As a result Alice is confused about the S-E refres= h interval.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sharing cross transaction state for proxy can be a= big deal. Different
>>>> transactions might no even end up on
>>>>>> the same proxy instance, especially since initial = INVITE is sent to the
>>>> pre-configured proxy, but UPDATE is sent
>>>>>> based on dialog route set. Furthermore, support fo= r cross transaction
>>>> dialog state can create a significant additional
>>>>>> load on the proxy, since transaction state is usua= lly in memory but
>>>> dialog state is typically in database where frequent
>>>>>> updates are not desirable.
>>>> First, the proxy adding session timer must be stateful. >>>>
>>> Stateful means storing transaction state, not state across tra= nsactions.
>>> This is something like OpenSIPS tm module and avp (
>>> https://opensips.org/html/docs/modules/2.4.x/tm.html and
>>> https://www.opensips.org/Documentation/Script-CoreVar-2-4#varavps). UPD= ATE
>>> transaction normally has no access to INVITE transaction state= . Even
>>> transaction stateful can be a problem for HA or high scale dep= loyment and
>>> can cause calls to fail. Converting anything except initial IN= VITE
>>> transaction to stateful is too high of the price to pay for se= ssion timer.
>>> In practice, it would be easier to assume that session timer i= s supported
>>> throughout the dialog if it was supported during initial dialo= g negotiation.
>>>
>>> Second, the proxy adding session timer SHOULD add Record-Route= . Perhaps we
>>>> should change that to MUST. Otherwise I really don't see h= ow you intend to
>>>> solve that cause the confusion...
>>>>
>>> Record-Route does not help here. There is no way to store chan= ging state
>>> for INVITE transaction in Record-Route header. From implementa= tion point of
>>> view, dealing with this issue means state for current INVITE t= ransaction
>>> needs to go into some sort of shared DB (even if it is in-memo= ry DB) which
>>> is accessible from all servers/processes that can handle UPDAT= E
>>> transactions for this dialog. In other words, every time INVIT= E request is
>>> received, session timer information from this request is store= d in DB. Once
>>> INVITE transaction is completed, record for INVITE is removed = from DB.
>>> Every time UPDATE is message is processed, DB needs to be look= ed up if
>>> there is a current INVITE transaction for this dialog. Of caus= e, logic for
>>> INVITE collisions and race conditions need to be implemented a= s well.
>>>
>>> Reality is unless this can be resolved on the client, these ru= les are too
>>> complicated to be implemented on the proxy so that nobody will= do that.
>>> Unless there is a way to implement proposed rules using openSI= PS or Kamilio
>>> configuration script, these rules are not going to useful.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, asking Alice to do one more UPDATE after th= e INVITE
>>> completion if there were any UPDATE transactions during INVITE= is much
>>> simpler for all involved and unambiguosly resolves all the pro= blems.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> _____________
>>> Roman Shpount
>>>
>>
>>
>

--_000_VI1PR07MB478299F12106382C2BD2F87F93E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_-- From nobody Tue Oct 2 08:55:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D92B130EDF for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 08:55:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5JwtfzmcA2HS for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 08:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42d.google.com (mail-pf1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E887130FFF for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 08:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id m77-v6so186480pfi.8 for ; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 08:55:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HPjA377YVaaJ6hhakmBmg0xSdVa0CLfRtfzj2aAqQZE=; b=mbohAlu+H7fz0/P75Haoc8iHpR3fpKNTus8S0FzqVH4g7YJ/21rjua9dWX3peaW5h1 oqgv843Ub+Ov5mMtVxtk6S2RcsiijYGueZyQW2rAO6/5Sjrhjnoi1SxjKbPbX5AoJYO7 ykyTUovKnxnNeNrF5SFWsoqN8FZhRbbKtYv9P3GJg3CiGRwxSkftdIFjwCJXCy/Rl7TM w6QbNu/ixOYJ24Pl6F2DPgEaSAPsKxJ/SP+fhnrpw4AQ1VEobi1V3r0X5tn77mTKBZEG Si/GeNpc4xvNysG6YGYWxwES28j2f4tg4NPy5FUMDa9qdMdgqxrM2D/iFfGO7ROqXoZT MKrQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HPjA377YVaaJ6hhakmBmg0xSdVa0CLfRtfzj2aAqQZE=; b=BgfPX3L6ImMFVcuOso9KltCnW/Gd9gkOPneb10+utcVhUSQwGiYQKB32W7iwlZfvLX yxUAlY4YYTTUVlFhtiI5gAP8Z14v1wVeF1A9tdnMsJoTDQf9O9bVYKI9wNmW7mvGV33U T8blZ3N2UaTYNq66w2MRiRHK2uOb5c23fkcaqKkexy/WbJ4VBItMH8AwJnZ7lsBdHG+e Vd1pfkLYMZLnargx1JwiZFxS06CuS/5VJDZuR8fXkKUBhRzcWApjUtVIP8SLjniJsQRF MYandhanMJroIoi837y0hsKOID8VBTn2Oq0MK3VTb4IuLGxXPdiSX+vA+MDt3vPt0oEy +X+g== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojXuQTT1jo/jV8dheqMja27X3sZ8toFYwXy/P7eNrEqoKKOsASE vEdggrumCNCK35hV828uZnco+j8NlmI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60mXnzolEpevjTAdfCvmk9yhbgOSPfZEhwxTibgJlQcVP8lT03IwqjCBt5ZYU1qlhhCNr5dKg== X-Received: by 2002:a62:1c06:: with SMTP id c6-v6mr17189836pfc.41.1538495727371; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 08:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-f177.google.com (mail-pl1-f177.google.com. [209.85.214.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c28-v6sm38065371pfk.48.2018.10.02.08.55.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Oct 2018 08:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f177.google.com with SMTP id az3-v6so1967149plb.4 for ; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 08:55:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:30a3:: with SMTP id v32-v6mr1939623plb.277.1538495725844; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 08:55:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 11:55:16 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003a49f0057740f3ac" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 15:55:31 -0000 --0000000000003a49f0057740f3ac Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 7:26 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > The RFC says: > > "Although the user agents > may be able to determine whether the session has timed out by using > session specific mechanisms, proxies will not be able to do so. The > result is that call stateful proxies will not always be able to > determine whether a session is still active. For instance, when a > user agent fails to send a BYE message at the end of a session, or > when the BYE message gets lost due to network problems, a call > stateful proxy will not know when the session has ended." > > At least in my eyes that makes it very clear that it is about session > state. > > Unless a proxy keeps session state, it has no need to know whether a > session has expired - it does not care. > > Even with Roman's charging case, in order to send charging information > associated with a session, the proxy needs to keep session state. > > I think we are talking in circles. Session timers are about session state, but they are essentially an optimization to minimize the amount of work required by proxies to know that there is an ongoing session (dialog) so that implementer does not have to use B2BUA for the same purpose. All that proxy care about is that session is still running. What you are suggesting is that proxy also need to maintain information about ongoing transactions in dialog, which is a lot more work then what proxy currently do. There might be additional complications such as INVITE collisions (i.e. dealing with storing two INVITE transaction at the same time which would be eventually rolled back), INVITE sequence numbers, INVITE and ACK collision, etc. All this logic will also be actively attacked to try to generate calls which are not correctly accounted for. The whole idea of the proxy is that it is reasonably simple and most of the state maintenance is at UA, so that proxy can be scaled and audited easily. By trying to put all the session logic in the proxy, you essentially go against the SIP design principals (intelligence at the edge). At this point you might as well make proxy into B2BUA. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000003a49f0057740f3ac Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 7:26 AM Christer Holmberg &= lt;christer.holmberg@eric= sson.com> wrote:

Th= e RFC says:

   "Although the user agents
   may be able to determine whether the session has timed out by using
   session specific mechanisms, proxies will not be able to do so.  The
   result is that call stateful proxies will not always be able to
   determine whether a session is still active.  For instance, when a
   user agent fails to send a BYE message at the end of a session, or
   when the BYE message gets lost due to network problems, a call
   stateful proxy will not know when the session has ended."
=C2=A0At least in my eyes that makes it very clear that it is about session state.

Unless a proxy keeps session state, it has no need to know whether a session has expired - it does not care.

Even with Roman's charging case, in order to send charging information associated with a session, the proxy needs to keep se= ssion state.


I think we are = talking in circles. Session timers are about session state, but they are es= sentially an optimization to minimize the amount of work required by proxie= s to know that there=C2=A0 is an ongoing session (dialog) so that implement= er does not have to use B2BUA for the same purpose. All that proxy care abo= ut is that session is still running. What you are suggesting is that proxy = also need to maintain information about ongoing transactions in dialog, whi= ch is a lot more work then what proxy currently do. There might be addition= al complications such as INVITE collisions (i.e. dealing with storing two I= NVITE transaction at the same time which would be eventually rolled back), = INVITE sequence numbers, INVITE and ACK collision, etc. All this logic will= also be actively attacked to try to generate calls which are not correctly= accounted for. The whole idea of the proxy is that it is reasonably simple= and most of the state maintenance is at UA, so that proxy can be scaled an= d audited easily. By trying to put all the session logic in the proxy, you = essentially go against the SIP design principals (intelligence at the edge)= . At this point you might as well make proxy into B2BUA.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--0000000000003a49f0057740f3ac-- From nobody Tue Oct 2 09:17:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 060B0130DC8 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 09:17:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CFtaq97QQ64k for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 09:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu [18.7.68.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163E9130E27 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440c-2f3ff70000000b12-2e-5bb39a2ca060 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 43.79.02834.C2A93BB5; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 12:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w92GHkLS030195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 2 Oct 2018 12:17:47 -0400 To: roland.jesske@web.de Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , sipcore@ietf.org, Roman Shpount References: From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <92dd4f4f-8c34-8d31-46b6-397e72157209@alum.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 12:17:46 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprKKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqKs7a3O0wc/JshZL+tewWazc8IbR YsaFqcwWX39sYnNg8dg56y67x5IlP5k8bk0p8Lj9bBtLAEsUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV8bHD0tZ C06wViz5NZ+xgXE5SxcjJ4eEgInEqsf97CC2kMAOJok/HTFdjFxA9gMmia3r5wElODiEBQol Gh4IgZgiAhISxyfKg5QzC2RI3J+6hRmi1UVi/rLvjCA2m4CWxJxD/8HG8wrYS8zZ1Qk2nkVA ReLhst2sILaoQJrE384ljBA1ghInZz4Bq+cUcJV4sPArE8R8M4l5mx8yQ9jiEreezIeKy0ts fzuHeQKjwCwk7bOQtMxC0jILScsCRpZVjHKJOaW5urmJmTnFqcm6xcmJeXmpRbqGermZJXqp KaWbGCEhzrOD8ds6mUOMAhyMSjy8DPKbooVYE8uKK3MPMUpyMCmJ8vLkbo4W4kvKT6nMSCzO iC8qzUktPsQowcGsJMLblwiU401JrKxKLcqHSUlzsCiJ87Ka7I0SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2Cycpw cChJ8PLNBGoULEpNT61Iy8wpQUgzcXCCDOcBGr53Bsjw4oLE3OLMdIj8KUZdjj1fm2YwC7Hk 5eelSonz7gIpEgApyijNg5sDS02vGMWB3hLm/QhSxQNMa3CTXgEtYQJa0li6AWRJSSJCSqqB UZjlStFzgaimS3sPrjSszq8+Wb/fPyfO8hDn0VJj36nNviZRczkyuKZPLPk9USZj8WOW5HU5 V6c2+fV0cTomOC7ml1aQ8Gm5suW+0WTzF0K7JAU1YkLvf5pz1mL/tilfREzOn7uwbILH5dV3 O3gmfL0uNNcsi3vDj/eGRy0Fgl99eM85efO3h0osxRmJhlrMRcWJADXRUB8oAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 16:17:53 -0000 On 10/2/18 1:12 AM, roland.jesske@web.de wrote: > Another Issue: > I would see the B2BUA as a entity that could use the session timer on > one leg where it is needed and on the other leg where it is not needed. > But with clear rules. > But currently there are no rules with regard to the B2BUA. > I have seen B2BUA which are changing the direction of refresher. This > end up in race conditions. When each refresher is sending the refresh at > the same time. A b2bua is obligated to follow the UA rules independently on each leg. As long as it does that, there need not be any coordination between the two legs. Of course it may attempt to emulate a proxy if it wishes. Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Oct 2 10:28:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7A41311B9 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 10:28:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.756 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.756 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=Ctys26GZ; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=ib4CETro Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fTdXc0wjPOan for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 10:28:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD78713131A for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 10:28:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538501283; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=zszfhgU5BWGn9QgP6m6ZExHkJ/BxPxGF9DWUbqm7ykU=; b=Ctys26GZ98mSEun0xoLX0kojPM15Z5Vek743uqbTm18N1NX1AoypdNm9xzrTRhpp zHtnyI1a21qckkFXKhrCKjyJ9qxl8kUoLxG/6MxWWizc2cQJRc7YpCLaz97JFgTU qb0mx1m0UM3sqKjDVf8iAUhU/LXY/jpMCKcMNmetbxA=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-223ff700000055ff-f6-5bb3aaa3dd38 Received: from ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.114]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 38.1B.22015.3AAA3BB5; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 19:28:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.168) by ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 19:28:03 +0200 Received: from EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.157) by ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 19:28:03 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=s5e2Gb0nTRw6/p7yAAswtc71UmlSPW0Tu4Jn/bJMZGk=; b=ib4CETroLf0Zhdb5eETXapkatQ02LAWwbnMjJ+50/9Ng9tOuRjXyBkjqWkxToFazbsubMP95lOAGuxS8hxJMnK0f1rAiZQtQLkPWPwHCHr23LDezLBCC8yDkCpBWAMo4+UbXKYOXYp1GWC3TKKrUKm4tZZkkJmJM0YE1jIsQ9Q8= Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.57.157) by VI1PR07MB3390.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.175.244.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1207.13; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 17:28:01 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221]) by VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1207.018; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 17:28:01 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , "Paul Kyzivat" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 17:28:09 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB47824D07F1FB9800740ACFE493E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =85 >I think we are talking in circles. Session timers are about session state,= but they are >essentially an optimization to minimize the amount of work r= equired by proxies to know >that there is an ongoing session (dialog) so t= hat implementer does not have to use >B2BUA for the same purpose. Not sure why one would have to use a B2BUA. >All that proxy care about is that session is still running. What you are s= uggesting is that >proxy also need to maintain information about ongoing tr= ansactions in dialog, which is a >lot more work then what proxy currently d= o. The only thing the proxy needs to know is if there in an ongoing (re-)INVIT= E/UPDATE transaction, and if so what S-E values etc have been used within t= hat transaction. The proxy does not need to know anything about the transac= tion(s) themselves. Or, have I missed something? >There might be additional complications such as INVITE collisions (i.e. de= aling with >storing two INVITE transaction at the same time which would be = eventually rolled back), >INVITE sequence numbers, INVITE and ACK collision= , etc. All this logic will also be actively >attacked to try to generate ca= lls which are not correctly accounted for. The whole idea of >the proxy is = that it is reasonably simple and most of the state maintenance is at UA, so= >that proxy can be scaled and audited easily. By trying to put all the ses= sion logic in the >proxy, you essentially go against the SIP design princip= als (intelligence at the edge). At >this point you might as well make proxy= into B2BUA. What I suggest above does not turn a proxy into a B2BUA. Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB47824D07F1FB9800740ACFE493E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


=85


>I think we are talking in circles. Session timers are about sessio= n state, but they are >essentially an optimization to minimize the amoun= t of work required by proxies to know >that there  is an ongoing se= ssion (dialog) so that implementer does not have to use >B2BUA for the same purpose.

Not sure why one would have to use a B2BUA.

>All that proxy care about is that session is still running. What y= ou are suggesting is that >proxy also need to maintain information about= ongoing transactions in dialog, which is a >lot more work then what pro= xy currently do. 

The only thing the proxy needs to know is if there in an ongoing (re-)= INVITE/UPDATE transaction, and if so what S-E values etc have been used wit= hin that transaction. The proxy does not need to know anything about the tr= ansaction(s) themselves.

Or, have I missed something?

>There might be additional complications such as INVITE collisions = (i.e. dealing with >storing two INVITE transaction at the same time whic= h would be eventually rolled back), >INVITE sequence numbers, INVITE and= ACK collision, etc. All this logic will also be actively >attacked to try to generate calls which are not corre= ctly accounted for. The whole idea of >the proxy is that it is reasonabl= y simple and most of the state maintenance is at UA, so >that proxy can = be scaled and audited easily. By trying to put all the session logic in the >proxy, you essentially go against the= SIP design principals (intelligence at the edge). At >this point you mi= ght as well make proxy into B2BUA.

What I suggest above does not turn a proxy into a B2BUA.

Regards,

Christer

 
--_000_VI1PR07MB47824D07F1FB9800740ACFE493E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_-- From nobody Tue Oct 2 10:43:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EAE4130FFF for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 10:43:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wTNNyDheWmfl for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 10:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62b.google.com (mail-pl1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8843D1310C5 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 10:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id s4-v6so2099808plp.0 for ; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:43:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0XNldHyJgtUy5PpKejtF6CKEgpO++KfhDwuLMyoTvUE=; b=ZQUhJICvjy1ZD2pSwQlVybrhYLdhATpNjyDaKjd+Q9ScXOIKWs6e+egFaNBIKMJ+mw jAvCiHktQup6blvB8xx/0JVOT4JlrXrTo4Grhn3llNvVAlJX2s+zN9G8esRYZbW9T5ce Qinr0U8IlXmyS3n3R8CZqWZeZA7iDKqnQIg9Tjjqr8zy3iwR1Ak+NlpeXFiFoskiyd6I /DXFXA+7BAIBydA3isqUG3g2IlG1OYWM7ZKzy77Gmm5a/FoSn9SB25bSVWwfRjXQ1Wor 7/yChTOm1cmg7BHAgmNESkufEdUqXpKieGk2SARj9D5EGMDIZFr15jUAtDf+yLtguKCn sJ8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0XNldHyJgtUy5PpKejtF6CKEgpO++KfhDwuLMyoTvUE=; b=gRe7V6C5Pgtkdm33y285BewQJVypccJVfbZaasdmLWCHw2XfHrQy5jXoskc7n1ggfv g6g2dpWROQxSkaKCE2CTxfx1DN0XXvRc2jMQt1SWUFrYSnMj8DEAlzJLO+okQPyCn9fQ VkS4fr1OSL52RuyyZipshL+prwBkPO0MWt6V1Lk5jexcOclCV7VdyycOIUK2FLb2zCeZ FhT2ByhNzVnqw7rcMvz0gGD1l+8YdyfIDSO1/qydaPH5PwlNOe8/QPZfSapiZsWPEUC7 hd8inXUUnBpBGHaD1Ewd95p6lF8SlULxObGObMUiXM4ULIy3zSSjVSYVyv5+lwHnqM7m epbw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojnH/NDowwF/CPFAGcIqh53Tm3z5ov32xOgtXnSBj9QOicxj4Ol e3zuwsNIRQyK3I0qyDb1a1QIzDLEYDo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62siEk1e0PFJKYQ/FJVK77IoFDNuYbOjKNOO003YmuP0bdQDHG1q6DX2NmUJAQ4HACD9fAHkg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7683:: with SMTP id m3-v6mr1397989pll.180.1538502180951; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-f172.google.com (mail-pl1-f172.google.com. [209.85.214.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h5-v6sm15413847pfo.135.2018.10.02.10.42.59 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f172.google.com with SMTP id f18-v6so2095028plr.1 for ; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:42:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:167:: with SMTP id 94-v6mr17765894plb.142.1538502179369; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:42:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 13:42:49 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e33ac805774273f9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 17:43:04 -0000 --000000000000e33ac805774273f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 1:28 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >I think we are talking in circles. Session timers are about session > state, but they are >essentially an optimization to minimize the amount of > work required by proxies to know >that there is an ongoing session > (dialog) so that implementer does not have to use >B2BUA for the same > purpose. > > Not sure why one would have to use a B2BUA. > If session timer did not exist and proxy could not request one of the UA to run periodic requests, the only way to monitor the session from the network element in the middle is using B2BUA. In fact you can do anything done by proxy using B2BUA. Proxy is just an optimization where only limited logic is required from the network element and most of the state measurement is delegated to the client. > >All that proxy care about is that session is still running. What you are > suggesting is that >proxy also need to maintain information about ongoing > transactions in dialog, which is a >lot more work then what proxy currently > do. > > The only thing the proxy needs to know is if there in an ongoing > (re-)INVITE/UPDATE transaction, and if so what S-E values etc have been > used within that transaction. The proxy does not need to know anything > about the transaction(s) themselves. > > Or, have I missed something? > Keeping track of ongoing INVITE transactions would at the best case double the proxy load (two DB updates per transaction vs one). >From proxy point of view there can be two or more INVITE transactions going on at the same time, so this will require more DB entries then one per call. These INVITE transactions can be INVITE collisions or valid 2XX and INVITE network re-order. Proxy has no way of knowing which one it is when INVITE messages are received. If we add malicious clients, proxy need to validate that current scenario is legitimate (i.e. it did not get large number of INVITE requests in same direction) before it stores the INVITE transaction info. All of this complicates things a bit. > >There might be additional complications such as INVITE collisions (i.e. > dealing with >storing two INVITE transaction at the same time which would > be eventually rolled back), >INVITE sequence numbers, INVITE and ACK > collision, etc. All this logic will also be actively >attacked to try to > generate calls which are not correctly accounted for. The whole idea of > >the proxy is that it is reasonably simple and most of the state > maintenance is at UA, so >that proxy can be scaled and audited easily. By > trying to put all the session logic in the >proxy, you essentially go > against the SIP design principals (intelligence at the edge). At >this > point you might as well make proxy into B2BUA. > > What I suggest above does not turn a proxy into a B2BUA. > My suggestion is to try to express whatever rules we propose using opensips/kamillio configuration script. If this is possible, these rules are acceptable and implementable by current proxies. If this would require binary changes to opensips, then these rules are too complex for most of the deployed scenarios. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000e33ac805774273f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 1:28 PM C= hrister Holmberg <chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

&g= t;I think we are talking in circles. Session timers are about session state= , but they are >essentially an optimization to minimize the amount of wo= rk required by proxies to know >that there=C2=A0 is an ongoing session (= dialog) so that implementer does not have to use >B2BUA for the same purpose.


Not sure why one would have to use a B2BUA.

If session timer did not ex= ist and proxy could not request one of the UA to run periodic requests, the= only way to monitor the session from the network element in the middle is = using B2BUA. In fact you can do anything done by proxy using B2BUA. Proxy i= s just an optimization where only limited logic is required from the networ= k element and most of the state measurement is delegated to the client.
=C2=A0
>All that proxy care about is that s= ession is still running. What you are suggesting is that >proxy also nee= d to maintain information about ongoing transactions in dialog, which is a = >lot more work then what proxy currently do.=C2=A0

The only thing the proxy needs to know is if there in an ongoing (re-)= INVITE/UPDATE transaction, and if so what S-E values etc have been used wit= hin that transaction. The proxy does not need to know anything about the tr= ansaction(s) themselves.

Or, have I missed something?

Keeping track of ongoing INVITE transactions wou= ld at the best case double the proxy load (two DB updates per transaction v= s one).

From proxy point of view there can be two = or more INVITE transactions going on at the same time, so this will require= more DB entries then one per call. These INVITE transactions can be INVITE= collisions or valid 2XX and INVITE network re-order. Proxy has no way of k= nowing which one it is when INVITE messages are received. If we add malicio= us clients, proxy need to validate that current scenario is legitimate (i.e= . it did not get large number of INVITE requests in same direction) before = it stores the INVITE transaction info. All of this complicates things a bit= .=C2=A0
=C2=A0
<= div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">
>There might be additional complicat= ions such as INVITE collisions (i.e. dealing with >storing two INVITE tr= ansaction at the same time which would be eventually rolled back), >INVI= TE sequence numbers, INVITE and ACK collision, etc. All this logic will also be actively >attacked to try to generate calls which are not corre= ctly accounted for. The whole idea of >the proxy is that it is reasonabl= y simple and most of the state maintenance is at UA, so >that proxy can = be scaled and audited easily. By trying to put all the session logic in the >proxy, you essentially go against the= SIP design principals (intelligence at the edge). At >this point you mi= ght as well make proxy into B2BUA.

What I suggest above does not turn a proxy into a B2BUA.
=C2=A0
My suggestion = is to try to express whatever rules we propose using opensips/kamillio conf= iguration script. If this is possible, these rules are acceptable and imple= mentable by current proxies. If this would require binary changes to opensi= ps, then these rules are too complex for most of the deployed scenarios.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
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boundary="_000_VI1PR07MB47826020E2545771B0C33F0493E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ca936dd2-20ab-497b-0b26-08d6289a2ae4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Oct 2018 19:06:32.8229 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB1727 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Se0hTYRjG+XbOtrPR6Gu5fFHUWAnhZdmI2h8l9Y8ZamRUiAZ10oPOe5ua GsnENNO8kC7U8IZDbUiGiqaZtomZS/NCoFniRDMtxCWYimh5Ogv87/c+z8PzvS98FCHt4jtR 6vgkRhNPx8oFYrI8pCPVu8vUGuZTNYxVhqImgarx5Vu+qmxUT6jWNloE50j/7RUbz7+zYlro bzBs8vynShMvk6HiMxFMrDqF0Rz3vSWO+lOTiRJfh6bmt/TxdWgnIA+JKMAn4dvYGsmyFPcj 6M1jOF5D0DzqlYfEu1zHg2yrjc8OJC4m4N1qgYBznvCg/8dnxA2zCH69+C3MQxQlwCrI3/Fk qxywO2yvl/BYJnAifJhpJ9nIQXwHdFYpF9FAfn8uydY44B4EWcs2gjVIfBSyhz4KWZbgG1Bl 3CK5t8bEMPKpG7FFIhwMuVYlm0H4EKxbmuxvOcLUfDWPOxODoXuE4FgGS3M7fC5PQ6/RatcP g6lpzs4uMF6djzjuEcJqcyDH3mDT6+2ZIBg0thHsPoAHEIzUDNgND1jMfGPnGOhbzBVwHAAD xSZ7qSsYC2bJYuRTsWdXjhNgvHGQqPh38wEYLJ8nOV0Bk/pSAceeUF/7k+DYG8p2zORevQYJ jUimZbS34yKVSgWjUYdrtQnxingmqQXt/ihT25bPK7T0/bwZYQrJ90mudbSGSfl0ijYtzoyA IuQOkkJ6V5JE0GnpjCbhpiY5ltGakTNFyh0lqkutoVIcSScxMQyTyGj+uzxK5KRDz60XfN2S J52l+sKzzctxI5V1KzPlLs9kw+/NofsrT2VYwyweQVdNhKXh3lNLyEI63f3FLdppeP7RgnJI 97iTqa9PifHzbc96uDnhpx6tlTWIhIGK8Jzr0YavV4xZGeX3gx9UT2/LN8VeRacv6tyPFVdt BNt0OSXWu+6xru0TR+SkNoo+4UFotPRfl8MQHk0DAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 19:06:39 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB47826020E2545771B0C33F0493E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, One option is that the proxy simply does not modify the S-E values that it = inserts. It uses the same value in every request/response - no matter if th= ere are ongoing INVITE transactions or not. Not sure how often the session = timer is modified mid-session to begin with... Regards, Christer ________________________________ From: Roman Shpount Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 8:42 PM To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE; Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVIT= E - is it a session refresh request? On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 1:28 PM Christer Holmberg > wrote: >I think we are talking in circles. Session timers are about session state,= but they are >essentially an optimization to minimize the amount of work r= equired by proxies to know >that there is an ongoing session (dialog) so t= hat implementer does not have to use >B2BUA for the same purpose. Not sure why one would have to use a B2BUA. If session timer did not exist and proxy could not request one of the UA to= run periodic requests, the only way to monitor the session from the networ= k element in the middle is using B2BUA. In fact you can do anything done by= proxy using B2BUA. Proxy is just an optimization where only limited logic = is required from the network element and most of the state measurement is d= elegated to the client. >All that proxy care about is that session is still running. What you are s= uggesting is that >proxy also need to maintain information about ongoing tr= ansactions in dialog, which is a >lot more work then what proxy currently d= o. The only thing the proxy needs to know is if there in an ongoing (re-)INVIT= E/UPDATE transaction, and if so what S-E values etc have been used within t= hat transaction. The proxy does not need to know anything about the transac= tion(s) themselves. Or, have I missed something? Keeping track of ongoing INVITE transactions would at the best case double = the proxy load (two DB updates per transaction vs one). >From proxy point of view there can be two or more INVITE transactions going= on at the same time, so this will require more DB entries then one per cal= l. These INVITE transactions can be INVITE collisions or valid 2XX and INVI= TE network re-order. Proxy has no way of knowing which one it is when INVIT= E messages are received. If we add malicious clients, proxy need to validat= e that current scenario is legitimate (i.e. it did not get large number of = INVITE requests in same direction) before it stores the INVITE transaction = info. All of this complicates things a bit. >There might be additional complications such as INVITE collisions (i.e. de= aling with >storing two INVITE transaction at the same time which would be = eventually rolled back), >INVITE sequence numbers, INVITE and ACK collision= , etc. All this logic will also be actively >attacked to try to generate ca= lls which are not correctly accounted for. The whole idea of >the proxy is = that it is reasonably simple and most of the state maintenance is at UA, so= >that proxy can be scaled and audited easily. By trying to put all the ses= sion logic in the >proxy, you essentially go against the SIP design princip= als (intelligence at the edge). At >this point you might as well make proxy= into B2BUA. What I suggest above does not turn a proxy into a B2BUA. My suggestion is to try to express whatever rules we propose using opensips= /kamillio configuration script. If this is possible, these rules are accept= able and implementable by current proxies. If this would require binary cha= nges to opensips, then these rules are too complex for most of the deployed= scenarios. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --_000_VI1PR07MB47826020E2545771B0C33F0493E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


One option is that the proxy simp= ly does not modify the S-E values that it inserts. It uses the same value i= n every request/response - no matter if there are ongoing INVITE transactio= ns or not. Not sure how often the session timer is modified mid-session to begin with...


Regards,


Christer



From: Roman Shpount <rom= an@telurix.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 8:42 PM
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE; Paul Kyzivat
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/r= e-INVITE - is it a session refresh request?
 

On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 1:28 PM= Christer Holmberg <christer.hol= mberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

&= gt;I think we are talking in circles. Session timers are about session stat= e, but they are >essentially an optimization to minimize the amount of w= ork required by proxies to know >that there  is an ongoing session (dialog) so that implementer does not have to use &g= t;B2BUA for the same purpose.


Not sure why one would have to use a B2BUA.

If session timer did not exist and proxy could not request one of the = UA to run periodic requests, the only way to monitor the session from the n= etwork element in the middle is using B2BUA. In fact you can do anything do= ne by proxy using B2BUA. Proxy is just an optimization where only limited logic is required from the network= element and most of the state measurement is delegated to the client.
 
>All that proxy care about is that s= ession is still running. What you are suggesting is that >proxy also nee= d to maintain information about ongoing transactions in dialog, which is a = >lot more work then what proxy currently do. 

The only thing the proxy needs to know is if there in an ongoing (re-)= INVITE/UPDATE transaction, and if so what S-E values etc have been used wit= hin that transaction. The proxy does not need to know anything about the tr= ansaction(s) themselves.

Or, have I missed something?

Keeping track of ongoing INVITE transactions would at the best case do= uble the proxy load (two DB updates per transaction vs one).

From proxy point of view there can be two or more INVITE transactions = going on at the same time, so this will require more DB entries then one pe= r call. These INVITE transactions can be INVITE collisions or valid 2XX and= INVITE network re-order. Proxy has no way of knowing which one it is when INVITE messages are received. I= f we add malicious clients, proxy need to validate that current scenario is= legitimate (i.e. it did not get large number of INVITE requests in same di= rection) before it stores the INVITE transaction info. All of this complicates things a bit. 
 
>There might be additional complicat= ions such as INVITE collisions (i.e. dealing with >storing two INVITE tr= ansaction at the same time which would be eventually rolled back), >INVI= TE sequence numbers, INVITE and ACK collision, etc. All this logic will also be actively >attacked to try to generate = calls which are not correctly accounted for. The whole idea of >the prox= y is that it is reasonably simple and most of the state maintenance is at U= A, so >that proxy can be scaled and audited easily. By trying to put all the session logic in the >proxy, you essen= tially go against the SIP design principals (intelligence at the edge). At = >this point you might as well make proxy into B2BUA.

What I suggest above does not turn a proxy into a B2BUA.
 
My suggestion is to try to express whatever rules we propose using ope= nsips/kamillio configuration script. If this is possible, these rules are a= cceptable and implementable by current proxies. If this would require binar= y changes to opensips, then these rules are too complex for most of the deployed scenarios.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
 
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[209.85.210.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b18-v6sm23070395pgk.15.2018.10.02.12.52.16 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Oct 2018 12:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f169.google.com with SMTP id c25-v6so165390pfe.6 for ; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 12:52:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:2e47:: with SMTP id u68-v6mr15920349pgu.294.1538509935982; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 12:52:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 15:52:04 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000037c3dd057744420b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 19:52:21 -0000 --00000000000037c3dd057744420b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 3:06 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > One option is that the proxy simply does not modify the S-E values that it > inserts. It uses the same value in every request/response - no matter if > there are ongoing INVITE transactions or not. Not sure how often the > session timer is modified mid-session to begin with... > > > I would suggest the following: 1. If proxy receives a SIP Request without S-E, it inserts the S-E header with expiration value desired by proxy with no refresher 2. If proxy receives s SIP Request with S-E, it can reduce the expires time, it this expires time is greater then session refresh interval desired by proxy (as long as it is greater then Min-SE) 3. If proxy receives a SIP Response without S-E, it checks S-E value and supported timer header which were set in the request associated with this response when it was sent by the proxy. If session timer was supported by the origination client, then proxy inserts S-E value in the response with the same expiration as original request and refresher set to UAC. These rules do not require any inter-transaction dependencies (rule 3 is within single transaction) and simply act as a more strict version of rules specified in the current RFC. These rules can still result in inconsistent S-E refresh interval (not the refresher role) in scenario like this: Alice Proxy Bob |(1) INVITE | | | SE: 600 | | |-------------->| | | |(2) INVITE | | | SE: 600 | | |-------------->| | | | | |(3) UPDATE | | |<--------------| |(4) UPDATE | | | SE: 900 | | |<--------------| | | | | |(5) 200(UPD) | | | SE: 900 | | | refresher=uas | | |-------------->| | | |(6) 200(UPD) | | | SE: 900 | | | refresher=uas | | |-------------->| | | | | |(7) 200(INV) | | |<--------------| |(8) 200(INV) | | | SE: 600 | | | refresher=uac | | |<--------------| | 1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600 2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwards the S-E header as is to Bob 3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E 4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE transaction state and it needs to refresh every 15 min 5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900;refresher=uas 6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not support session timer 7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E since it does not support session timer 8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E set to 600;refresher=uac For scenarios like this I suggest we add the rule for the client: If it processes UPDATE transactions during INVITE which result in different session timer negotiation result with overlaying INVITE transaction or each other, UA MUST send a new UPDATE outside of any INVITE transaction to re-negotiate the session timer state. This way if client runs into old or non-compliant implementations, it will deal with them correctly. Furthermore, we should clarify the negotiated SIP session timer value in the middle of the INVITE transaction. Current RFC specifies that S-E should be set to currently negotiated value when request is sent, but does not say what the currently negotiated value is when transaction is still in progress. I think we should specify that session timer negotiation occurs when INVITE request is received and UPDATE messages sent within INVITE transaction should use this value. 2XX response to INVITE transaction should include S-E value negotiated by UPDATE transactions which occurred during the INVITE. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000037c3dd057744420b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 3:06 = PM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

On= e option is that the proxy simply does not modify the S-E values that it in= serts. It uses the same value in every request/response - no matter if ther= e are ongoing INVITE transactions or not. Not sure how often the session timer is modified mid-session to begin with...


=
=C2=A0
I would suggest the following:
1. If proxy = receives a SIP Request without S-E, it inserts the S-E header with expirati= on value desired by proxy with no refresher
2. If proxy receives = s SIP Request with S-E, it can reduce the expires time, it this expires tim= e is greater then session refresh interval desired by proxy (as long as it = is greater then Min-SE)
3. If proxy receives a SIP Response witho= ut S-E, it checks S-E value and supported timer header which were set in th= e request associated with this response when it was sent by the proxy. If s= ession timer was supported by the origination client, then proxy inserts S-= E value in the response with the same expiration as original request and re= fresher set to UAC.

These rules do not require any= inter-transaction dependencies (rule 3 is within single transaction) and s= imply act as a more strict version of rules specified in the current RFC.

These rules can still result in inconsistent S-E re= fresh interval (not the refresher role) in scenario like this:
Alice=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proxy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bob
=C2=A0|(1) INVITE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= /font>
=C2=A0|--------------&= gt;|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(2) INVITE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|-------------->|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= /font>
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(3) UPDATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<--------------|
<= div>=C2=A0|(4) UPDATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| SE: 900=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|<--------------|=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= /font>
=C2=A0|(5) 200(UPD)=C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= /div>
=C2=A0| SE: 900=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| refresher=3Duas |= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
<= font face=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A0|-------------->|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|(6) 200(UPD)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0| SE: 900=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0| refresher=3Duas |
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|--------= ------>|
=C2=A0|=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|(7) 200(INV)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= ;--------------|
=C2= =A0|(8) 200(INV)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| SE= : 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|= refresher=3Duac |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= /font>
=C2=A0|<-----------= ---|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|

1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600
2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwa= rds the S-E header as is to Bob
3. UPD= ATE is received from Bob with no S-E
4= . Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE transactio= n state and it needs to refresh every 15 min
5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900;refresher=3Duas
6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not s= upport session timer
7. Bob sends 200 = Ok to INVITE without S-E since it does not support session timer
8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E= set to 600;refresher=3Duac

For scenarios li= ke this I suggest we add the rule for the client:

= If it processes UPDATE transactions during= INVITE which result in different session timer negotiation result with ove= rlaying INVITE transaction or each other, UA MUST send a new UPDATE outside= of any INVITE transaction to re-negotiate=C2=A0the session timer state.=C2=A0

This way if client runs into old or= non-compliant implementations, it will deal with them correctly.

Furthermore, we should clarify the negotiated SIP session t= imer value in the middle of the INVITE transaction. Current RFC specifies t= hat S-E should be set to currently negotiated value when request is sent, b= ut does not say what the currently negotiated value is when transaction is = still in progress. I think we should specify that session timer negotiation= occurs when INVITE request is received and UPDATE messages sent within INV= ITE transaction should use this value. 2XX response to INVITE transaction s= hould include S-E value negotiated by UPDATE transactions which occurred du= ring the INVITE.

Regards,
_____________
Ro= man Shpount
=C2=A0
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boundary="_000_VI1PR07MB47822AA697344E5D0A2574EA93E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c638b05d-d444-4f5c-6b84-08d628a7b3bf X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Oct 2018 20:43:25.8882 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB4448 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Se0hTYRjG+XbOzo6rxdfUfDGtGAqmaGr+MaWr9IddqZAwp+nS4yWXs3PU 0iQ0sFIrDZV0FCouKTMRnZoR3k1XVDKyzAqvEGaSmuKlNvJ4Fvjf733e5+F7XvhoQv5C7EjH JyYzbKJao6CkZGlIc5qndrBB5X27xVapz6+hlI/r2sXKkv5iQrmwVE8dIIPMv2ZEQS26b5Ig vX5ZFDRUlHSSDJXuiWY08akMu2tfpDSubvgRSuouQleedv9Emch0NRfZ0ID9oKm5kcpFUlqO exBMtX22DgsIDHVjpDBUiqB9wCzhBxIXEDD9tovk83J8TwS1+TGCaxRB/tziap6mKayEPIsH 77HDrmBeLBTxTOAkeDPcRPIWW3wJMkfkgoWFvJ5bpMDvEJj6fHgLiV1grP8YL8twGPQtd1jL TW2Am+Yuil/Y4FPQNF67lkV4Cyy+rrE+5QBDE2Ui4UwM+pfvCYHtYXLcIhb8amirHrHqO6Cj ZtzKzmAqy0MCt0pg4Ya/wJ4wU1xs9RwHo+kDwRcC3Ivgt+4VKSzcYX5Wt3Yj4AQYKT8tyEch K8tozW6D6jujZAHy1q2rKrAWVqYnCd3azZvBWDpBCroXDBYXUQJ7QFXFFCGwJ5RYOsn1ejmS VCN7juG4i7G+vl4MGx/FcdpEr0QmuR6t/qgOw5+A56jj+8FOhGmk2CiLNDao5GJ1Kpd2sRMB TSjsZHfVq5IsWp2WzrDaCDZFw3CdaCtNKhxkgTHKUDmOVSczCQyTxLD/tyLaxjETXW825NoE lHyt9tXpSr0zzlds+jLrlCp9drhwQHqtN+SjJlgV7rT9kMU1vlFrF2qqPzLJfnJZznENM4a4 OZ99uKLS9Ng/cZ4ndv/IcAk+kzJqcd4f4TMafq6yoEreGkxRdW5Rgcjw90J2Qnq6v12O+LLc L/uBZKe54kRY6t65+0sKkotT+7gTLKf+B1fEWz5NAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 20:43:32 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB47822AA697344E5D0A2574EA93E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, As we have discussed, the session timer mechanism is mostly useful for prox= ies. Therefore, assuming that the proxy knows best what interval is needed: Q1: If the S-E in message #1 is too small, the proxy could reject it with 4= 22. Q2: In message #2, since the proxy wants 900, could we allow the proxy to i= nsert 900? Q3: In message #8, since the proxy wants 900, could we allow the proxy to i= nsert 900? Regards, Christer ________________________________ From: Roman Shpount Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 10:52 PM To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE; Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVIT= E - is it a session refresh request? On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 3:06 PM Christer Holmberg > wrote: One option is that the proxy simply does not modify the S-E values that it = inserts. It uses the same value in every request/response - no matter if th= ere are ongoing INVITE transactions or not. Not sure how often the session = timer is modified mid-session to begin with... I would suggest the following: 1. If proxy receives a SIP Request without S-E, it inserts the S-E header w= ith expiration value desired by proxy with no refresher 2. If proxy receives s SIP Request with S-E, it can reduce the expires time= , it this expires time is greater then session refresh interval desired by = proxy (as long as it is greater then Min-SE) 3. If proxy receives a SIP Response without S-E, it checks S-E value and su= pported timer header which were set in the request associated with this res= ponse when it was sent by the proxy. If session timer was supported by the = origination client, then proxy inserts S-E value in the response with the s= ame expiration as original request and refresher set to UAC. These rules do not require any inter-transaction dependencies (rule 3 is wi= thin single transaction) and simply act as a more strict version of rules s= pecified in the current RFC. These rules can still result in inconsistent S-E refresh interval (not the = refresher role) in scenario like this: Alice Proxy Bob |(1) INVITE | | | SE: 600 | | |-------------->| | | |(2) INVITE | | | SE: 600 | | |-------------->| | | | | |(3) UPDATE | | |<--------------| |(4) UPDATE | | | SE: 900 | | |<--------------| | | | | |(5) 200(UPD) | | | SE: 900 | | | refresher=3Duas | | |-------------->| | | |(6) 200(UPD) | | | SE: 900 | | | refresher=3Duas | | |-------------->| | | | | |(7) 200(INV) | | |<--------------| |(8) 200(INV) | | | SE: 600 | | | refresher=3Duac | | |<--------------| | 1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600 2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwards the S-E = header as is to Bob 3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E 4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE transacti= on state and it needs to refresh every 15 min 5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900;refresher=3Duas 6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not support session timer 7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E since it does not support session= timer 8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E set to 600;refresher=3Duac For scenarios like this I suggest we add the rule for the client: If it processes UPDATE transactions during INVITE which result in different= session timer negotiation result with overlaying INVITE transaction or eac= h other, UA MUST send a new UPDATE outside of any INVITE transaction to re-= negotiate the session timer state. This way if client runs into old or non-compliant implementations, it will = deal with them correctly. Furthermore, we should clarify the negotiated SIP session timer value in th= e middle of the INVITE transaction. Current RFC specifies that S-E should b= e set to currently negotiated value when request is sent, but does not say = what the currently negotiated value is when transaction is still in progres= s. I think we should specify that session timer negotiation occurs when INV= ITE request is received and UPDATE messages sent within INVITE transaction = should use this value. 2XX response to INVITE transaction should include S-= E value negotiated by UPDATE transactions which occurred during the INVITE. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --_000_VI1PR07MB47822AA697344E5D0A2574EA93E80VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


As we have discussed, the session= timer mechanism is mostly useful for proxies. Therefore, assuming that the= proxy knows best what interval is needed:


Q1: If the S-E = in message #1 is too small, the proxy could reject it with 422.


Q2: In message #2, since the prox= y wants 900, could we allow the proxy to insert 900? 


Q3: In message #8, since the prox= y wants 900, could we allow the proxy to insert 900?


Regards,


Christer





From: Roman Shpount <rom= an@telurix.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 10:52 PM
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE; Paul Kyzivat
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/r= e-INVITE - is it a session refresh request?
 
On Tue, = Oct 2, 2018 at 3:06 PM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

O= ne option is that the proxy simply does not modify the S-E values that it i= nserts. It uses the same value in every request/response - no matter if the= re are ongoing INVITE transactions or not. Not sure how often the session timer is modified mid-session to begin= with...


 
I would suggest the following:
1. If proxy receives a SIP Request without S-E, it inserts the S-E hea= der with expiration value desired by proxy with no refresher
2. If proxy receives s SIP Request with S-E, it can reduce the expires= time, it this expires time is greater then session refresh interval desire= d by proxy (as long as it is greater then Min-SE)
3. If proxy receives a SIP Response without S-E, it checks S-E value a= nd supported timer header which were set in the request associated with thi= s response when it was sent by the proxy. If session timer was supported by= the origination client, then proxy inserts S-E value in the response with the same expiration as original req= uest and refresher set to UAC.

These rules do not require any inter-transaction dependencies (rule 3 = is within single transaction) and simply act as a more strict version of ru= les specified in the current RFC.

These rules can still result in inconsistent S-E refresh interval (not= the refresher role) in scenario like this:
Alice        &= nbsp; Proxy            Bob
 |(1) INVITE    &nb= sp;|               |
 | SE: 600     = ;  |               |
 |-------------->|  &= nbsp;            |
 |       =        |(2) INVITE     |
 |       =        | SE: 600       |
 |       =        |-------------->|
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |
 |       =        |(3) UPDATE     |
 |       =        |<--------------|
 |(4) UPDATE    &nb= sp;|               |
 | SE: 900     = ;  |               |
 |<--------------|  &= nbsp;            |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |
 |(5) 200(UPD)   |&= nbsp;              |
 | SE: 900     = ;  |               |
 | refresher=3Duas |  &n= bsp;            |
 |-------------->|  &= nbsp;            |
 |       =        |(6) 200(UPD)   |
 |       =        | SE: 900       |
 |       =        | refresher=3Duas |
 |       =        |-------------->|
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |
 |       =        |(7) 200(INV)   |
 |       =        |<--------------|
 |(8) 200(INV)   |&= nbsp;              |
 | SE: 600     = ;  |               |
 | refresher=3Duac |  &n= bsp;            |
 |<--------------|  &= nbsp;            |

1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to = 600
2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since = 600 is less it forwards the S-E header as is to Bob
3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E<= /div>
4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does= not know about INVITE transaction state and it needs to refresh every 15 m= in
5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E= to 900;refresher=3Duas
6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not suppo= rt session timer
7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E s= ince it does not support session timer
8. Proxy looks up transaction state and add= s S-E set to 600;refresher=3Duac

For scenarios like this I suggest we add the rule for the client:

If it processes UPDATE transactions d= uring INVITE which result in different session timer negotiation result wit= h overlaying INVITE transaction or each other, UA MUST send a new UPDATE ou= tside of any INVITE transaction to re-negotiate the session timer state. 

This way if client runs into old or non-compliant implementations, it = will deal with them correctly.

Furthermore, we should clarify the negotiated SIP session timer value = in the middle of the INVITE transaction. Current RFC specifies that S-E sho= uld be set to currently negotiated value when request is sent, but does not= say what the currently negotiated value is when transaction is still in progress. I think we should specify = that session timer negotiation occurs when INVITE request is received and U= PDATE messages sent within INVITE transaction should use this value. 2XX re= sponse to INVITE transaction should include S-E value negotiated by UPDATE transactions which occurred during = the INVITE.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
 
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[209.85.210.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a11-v6sm9161936pfn.66.2018.10.02.16.02.42 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Oct 2018 16:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f169.google.com with SMTP id f26-v6so534687pfn.9 for ; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 16:02:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:455b:: with SMTP id s88-v6mr18182266pfa.203.1538521361850; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 16:02:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 19:02:30 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000040a892057746ebe3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 23:02:47 -0000 --00000000000040a892057746ebe3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 4:43 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > As we have discussed, the session timer mechanism is mostly useful for > proxies. Therefore, assuming that the proxy knows best what interval is > needed: > > > Q1: If the S-E in message #1 is too small, the proxy could reject it with > 422. > This is correct. This is what I meant that old Min-SE procedures should still be followed. Q2: In message #2, since the proxy wants 900, could we allow the proxy to > insert 900? > There can be more then one proxy. One might want 900. Another might want 600. The smallest interval must be chosen by each. If both proxies follow the procedure I have described then the same interval will always be selected. Q3: In message #8, since the proxy wants 900, could we allow the proxy to > insert 900? > Same issue as Q2 -- there might be multiple proxies. This can possibly be replaced by applying the rule for requests to responses as well, i.e. proxy can reduce the refresh interval but not change the refresher if it is already specified, but this can potentially cause behavior changes to current RFC when UAC specifies the refresh interval. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000040a892057746ebe3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 4:43 P= M Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

As= we have discussed, the session timer mechanism is mostly useful for proxie= s. Therefore, assuming that the proxy knows best what interval is needed:


Q1: If the=C2=A0S-E = in message #1 is too small, the proxy could reject it with 422.

=C2=A0
This is correct. This is what I mean= t that old Min-SE procedures should still be followed.

=

Q2= : In message #2, since the proxy wants 900, could we allow the proxy to ins= ert 900?=C2=A0

=C2=A0
Th= ere can be more then one proxy. One might want 900. Another might want 600.= The smallest interval must be chosen by each. If both proxies follow the p= rocedure I have described then the same interval will always be selected.

Q3: In message #8, since the proxy wants 900, could we allow the = proxy to insert 900?

=

Same issue as Q2 -- there might be m= ultiple proxies.=C2=A0This can possibly be replaced by applying the rule fo= r requests to responses as well, i.e. proxy can reduce the refresh interval= but not change the refresher if it is already specified, but this can pote= ntially cause behavior changes to current RFC when UAC specifies the refres= h interval.

Regards,
_____________
Roman S= hpount
=C2=A0
--00000000000040a892057746ebe3-- From nobody Tue Oct 2 23:38:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BCD9131203 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 23:38:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=G5bu61c5; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=K12eCNUw Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OA7cBDm4jyqJ for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 23:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 578F1131090 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 23:38:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538548681; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=KzwdYVILXaqZ//CchC9sq8hGWbeNcMkm2fmZDhhsKNY=; b=G5bu61c5LvZZHYrBY5k3xRR9gGeWUYoNpXbIUIrw3LtEj8d+7hYrrRTRl7HdlxPS vuYwmAXVdO+3otR1CZd1QLmgiS7/SosrjeOWoVObURo2GPVCxTAVTsmiK4xKP58S 43Jk2+PfcmelyqjBHEEbkJxCj4tw5UUZFiQ/D68lfn0=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-ff9ff700000055da-05-5bb463c93e69 Received: from ESESSMB502.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.120]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id CC.2E.21978.9C364BB5; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 08:38:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMR506.ericsson.se (153.88.183.128) by ESESSMB502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.120) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 08:38:00 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) by ESESSMR506.ericsson.se (153.88.183.128) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 08:38:00 +0200 Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.157) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 08:38:00 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=KzwdYVILXaqZ//CchC9sq8hGWbeNcMkm2fmZDhhsKNY=; b=K12eCNUwM7tPwdVzrJJb4EZT220kBTFHKmd247CsU4qqnOrElw9ffxrnNbxGzAZZEMcnMJKy7pcECecgQXJqiVLQuwDtRFxjsaV/OmsURjbkMjZ0DunBBFLYi0jcLGw6twlB+qWFaBJzjHwreobUK8dOycbM6ETXGPFLwxLb2Mc= Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.57.157) by VI1PR07MB3981.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.28.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1207.16; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 06:37:59 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221]) by VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1207.018; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 06:37:59 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , "Paul Kyzivat" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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boundary="_000_VI1PR07MB4782B1B757D110A10854253993E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 765609bc-5ff9-431e-8077-08d628fac2d4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Oct 2018 06:37:59.3895 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3981 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SfyyUcRzH+z7P4+5xc+3rkE/MH66sxu78mK37o1nWWjb90B9NOZbDk5Pj dA8XbW3XjImKyoX7I27JyljGISVyUYnyo1oSIlR3Ev1hlFHunrP57/1+f16f7+fz2b40KWpz 8qJT0jMZTbpCJeYJqIpTrdmS3kSTPOj58HZZdXEdT3a/4ZmTrHxQT8qWVhp5B6iItYVFIqLN MM6PqK7+Q0SMlmZEUTGC/UmMKkXLaALD4gXKhsFVImNQlj37e5zUoYXAQuRMAw6FAZ2RX4gE tAj3IJiuKUOcWUIw373Es1F2c3lFxem7BLQas20QhUtI+Pijw9Fxk4DywjKKM1MIJq492TA0 zcMyKFoPsHW7Yz9YW75F2DSJM6DvS4sdccPnQTcp4hANFPUU2J9xx6MIxm7n8m0FCu8Gy0g/ svFCHAt/h05yo/KE8LR+yJ474xNQOGhfFOEdsPy6zjHKE0ZnKgnuZAzV7QMkpz3AMr3uxPEK 6KyddOS+8ObXlIP3geHKIsTpDj58mw7gtAQW9XoHfxQGqoyEbR/ALxF8+mCluII/mMusPE6n wsM7X8nNvKDbQJSgYMOW/QwbJ5BYDVXmQFssxK7QWzFDcYgURvSlPE4HQI1xjuS0BMrXzdTW vArxa5EHy7AJackhIVJGk5LIsup0aTqT2Yg2PlSXaTXoEbJ8DzcjTCOxi/Cz3CQXOSm0bE6a GQFNit2F1xVNcpEwSZFzkdGoz2iyVAxrRt40JfYUyo41xYhwsiKTSWWYDEazWSVoZy8dKjW1 xO28ouxsnlGH+dWRAQePhz4Obr2gvfSzWRq1LUQ+m6WLXtMqx/J99+ZJtO3RoaW5ZycenKPu LQ4v9dW/O/Se1cUdKYaWBf9I15Wc+S5zS9ZVH6q/0Zp02JJoyR9JcI13CUfGuX1vV+++8v73 Yo+EdstfVrOnbzRExnZbd4kpVqkI9ic1rOI/HjpHgEwDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 06:38:07 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB4782B1B757D110A10854253993E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, As we have discussed, the session timer mechanism is mostly useful for prox= ies. Therefore, assuming that the proxy knows best what interval is needed: Q1: If the S-E in message #1 is too small, the proxy could reject it with 4= 22. >This is correct. This is what I meant that old Min-SE procedures should st= ill be followed. So, I think we should specify that: "If the proxy receives a S-E value that is too small, the proxy SHOULD reje= ct it with a 422 response." In addition, I think we should say that UAs SHOULD NOT insert S-E to begin = with. That gives the proxy more freedom to insert whatever value it wants. --- Q3: In message #8, since the proxy wants 900, could we allow the proxy to i= nsert 900? >Same issue as Q2 -- there might be multiple proxies. This can possibly be = replaced by applying the rule for requests to responses as well, i.e. proxy= can reduce the refresh interval but not >change the refresher if it is already specified, but this can potentially = cause behavior changes to current RFC when UAC specifies the refresh interv= al. The case where the UAC receives different S-E values in (4) and (8) is caus= ing problems today. Sure, we can say that the UAC should send a new UPDATE if that happens, but= existing deployments won't do that. But, we can minimize the risk of this = to occur by specifying the following: 1) As described in Q1, the proxy rejects too small values with 422, rather = than forwarding them. 2) By default, a proxy must always insert the same S-E value in each direct= ion. The proxy is only allowed to change the value if it is able to keep tr= ack of ongoing transactions etc. Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB4782B1B757D110A10854253993E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


A= s we have discussed, the session timer mechanism is mostly useful for proxi= es. Therefore, assuming that the proxy knows best what interval is needed:<= /span>


Q1: If the S-E= in message #1 is too small, the proxy could reject it with 422.

 
>This is correct. This is what I meant that old Min-SE procedures s= hould still be followed.

So, I think we should specify that:

"If the proxy receives a S-E value that is too small, the proxy SHOULD= reject it with a 422 response."

In addition, I think we should say that UAs SHOULD NOT insert S-E to begin = with. That gives the proxy more freedom to insert whatever value it wants.<= /div>

---


Q= 3: In message #8, since the proxy wants 900, could we allow the proxy to in= sert 900?


>Same issue as Q2 -- there might be multiple proxies. This can= possibly be replaced by applying the rule for requests to responses as wel= l, i.e. proxy can reduce the refresh interval but not 
>change the refresher if it is already specified, but this can pote= ntially cause behavior changes to current RFC when UAC specifies the refres= h interval.

The case where the UAC receives different S-E values in (4) and (8) is= causing problems today.

Sure, we can say that the UAC should send a new UPDATE if that happens= , but existing deployments won't do that. But, we can minimize the risk of = this to occur by specifying the following:

1) As described in Q1, the proxy rejects too small values with 422, ra= ther than forwarding them.
2) By default, a proxy must always insert the same S-E value in e= ach direction. The proxy is only allowed to change the value if it is able = to keep track of ongoing transactions etc.

Regards,

Christer

 
--_000_VI1PR07MB4782B1B757D110A10854253993E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_-- From nobody Wed Oct 3 00:28:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0449713120C; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 00:28:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <153855169597.9010.530111999405191840@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 00:28:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 07:28:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Authors : Christer Holmberg Michael Arnold Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2018-10-03 Abstract: This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to trigger such push notification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have submitted a new version (-18) of SIP Push. The draft now contains a = section describing how to support "replaced dialogs". Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB4782E8A9BB46FA5F4B53190093E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


I have submitted a new version (-= 18) of SIP Push. The draft now contains a section describing how to support= "replaced dialogs".


Regards,


Christer

--_000_VI1PR07MB4782E8A9BB46FA5F4B53190093E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_-- From nobody Wed Oct 3 02:50:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAC1131243 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 02:50:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WOU3T4s_pvvQ for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 02:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com (mail-pf1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C6E2131211 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 02:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id s5-v6so1419778pfj.7 for ; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 02:50:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:subject:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=XjvQoo++Fifty2jeSB3Mbu3naK0KlpcsC0nFZMSjQ/A=; b=iuoC0VUMVTfL5JVfqWFRCRJ+JHSEgBYMI0OfHsL9qlIGJToDTqHrPWTnn8dbsZ3oyu HtLW9p8CTZGLgHPR4O8wmYSkfS+wngBiNJHU9r9c7Yr4WlgL0T49jiqS7QdOq04C9Gdf jBrVrw/xe3Xxzp7ZWL76smICOLoUAKL8Tg8invIes8UtjtEOBPVfUGT1KSwVv7EFyGVf oNrK0NkPqSYBtX8mASvoEt2pf8VhWACoHsj3bEsj4b41MdJkBkjAZ+l/CMf9DO13PFka zn1LajB/sF6omo5gqyY9uocqh5C6kW9f+yX9Np4KZwspkCcbHufxBOOvZT80eNQPFbHz r/yA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:subject :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=XjvQoo++Fifty2jeSB3Mbu3naK0KlpcsC0nFZMSjQ/A=; b=sN/3dCM67ehzDMTKPnt7+NdgSS/zbHffODbpCFDuhYmlHcqUBJ0RThDwpZy+TmEXxT TvhEwAycTQCvpxOS0TKPvRZlw56p7+QUT4Z3qN6J4Pv5jKbDK0E9Lo44YEvpQvxMptBi 0fu/VZ3wr7vcZW/pIuCBTIpULiCKZufUWe/NPD1my2AlNkY+nKDFMLNm2dUNtC7V8kbH zKRm2Xr0vBg5hMyFjqhCQbaXg235zMaoEsylPJ1N2reOJ4fZ2QAWPsLcejWiuhvDwg/j dXR7UyeI75hj2MJTce6roeoN7pZduxxZsonkByjmkIhb6dJwtV9Ob1DAgiFtsJU+5O0X Eodw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojvBEOHNhG5lCY1L/axVZwikagfm7gxh0NMvnkI6+UIXroBdKIg QBstlI+Rq3ZDQ4OMD7PVNjw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62SgY4ntENVsGYeWUoeKsk6nyejaMkM9UlAtzAH1FRdxyVFYsXI7dOKBRZ8N6zHLnxXpP9rSQ== X-Received: by 2002:a63:4a09:: with SMTP id x9-v6mr651456pga.34.1538560207118; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 02:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.126] (x156176.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp. [122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z63-v6sm3152522pfz.31.2018.10.03.02.50.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Oct 2018 02:50:06 -0700 (PDT) To: Roman Shpount Cc: Christer Holmberg , SIPCORE , Paul Kyzivat References: <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 18:50:03 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181002-1, 2018/10/01), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 09:50:10 -0000 Hi, Are you discussing on the presumption that UAS does not support a session= -timer? On 2018/10/03 15:37, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > > As we have discussed, the session timer mechanism is mostly useful for = proxies. Therefore, assuming that the proxy knows best what interval is n= eeded: > > > Q1: If the S-E in message #1 is too small, the proxy could reject it wi= th 422. > > >> This is correct. This is what I meant that old Min-SE procedures shoul= d still be followed. > So, I think we should specify that: > > "If the proxy receives a S-E value that is too small, the proxy SHOULD = reject it with a 422 response." > > In addition, I think we should say that UAs SHOULD NOT insert S-E to be= gin with. That gives the proxy more freedom to insert whatever value it w= ants. IIUC, you say that "UAC" SHOULD NOT insert S-E to a request, don't you?. Regards, Shinji From nobody Wed Oct 3 04:02:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F5513122C for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 04:02:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XlHnTrQAgKJd for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 04:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com (mail-pf1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A918713123E for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 04:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id j23-v6so1519148pfi.4 for ; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 04:02:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7kp2WQdmejwY6NNQ4zFfMc4t9Jbu2QyqHM5feOZmnns=; b=HmLYwHbXRnVXVtzdZFXb36fzTw47efNKuGhxqzXNuBJsSS1KgebmAEaqc9RoNrOFLv PuYOHqI5sTnunZ6t3LEkBxRCJQH/d9vN0m7z5qxUORSqxM3lgFVqUDbNKWQR6dCiD69N jd1/4kVeATDb6gnQROcwKLAysjO5ea3nnY34HfGwXM3XVAXI57DexOxUgm+EQLTImpFk SlcHCYknqDWwLO60BsJRJqz4laaN2+FATrIPdwHmaTZ1ov04vg/UzPLKat77Xm7+7J5o XCGoSyki5YfIyhv9i2B4QpMVTBSq0zues4MAVPDJzeKG02hnTTKHMXZN15QNpuuGshKO dv9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7kp2WQdmejwY6NNQ4zFfMc4t9Jbu2QyqHM5feOZmnns=; b=tJ+8e933JjXZd8zRknIFlrqoOOuJCXD/Yy8/pujuF/ti+aDQdNc7OAYLnbwUCJ5n4J 6QFFxBGc4M3D3uc2Yi6z1H+AbyPwgwIgcU6gKHljbgf6oQ6gdFtTIK6OR4jYLBpsrKTE Tg2Z+ZoBcSX4b7Fc9GSkUipdpRWpO9+YkgIfFdDcg0I631r0e0VBmODfKgSmauTLYPL8 x0+7l/+Sg7Xp08frHKEP0eFReW70ABlK2+E4Sa42+Q36Edmzs1IbJ8nm1r2NQ3C+7vwX KcmDV7kf0fEMh4j7KWK5HVDwMOth5KDgsyxRE0c55eG2Lc7BMMbXtQXaOHTD9LE8usoQ YZYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoixPnafeSOpZ6vgeXuqCUaXqG8Au+4DtQw/7hnhJOIO8qeMqb7L RHPkPcGQY7MS4tx7DBFfoi4FKTqtAkk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61DkX555M61PNA8xeNoSaoSzIjuNWeecxwgsVCrzPbyKqTI89lBtqAGx3EhiqnbcadjrqN+Zw== X-Received: by 2002:a63:f252:: with SMTP id d18-v6mr906831pgk.2.1538564520544; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 04:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-f170.google.com (mail-pg1-f170.google.com. [209.85.215.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z4-v6sm1610343pgs.50.2018.10.03.04.01.59 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Oct 2018 04:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f170.google.com with SMTP id 80-v6so1398159pgh.10 for ; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 04:01:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:b09:: with SMTP id t9-v6mr1060822pfi.36.1538564518923; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 04:01:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 07:01:48 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009d54ee057750f7d5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 11:02:48 -0000 --0000000000009d54ee057750f7d5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 2:38 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > In addition, I think we should say that UAs SHOULD NOT insert S-E to begin > with. That gives the proxy more freedom to insert whatever value it wants. > This is not going to implementable if we try to provide any sort of backwards compatibility with existing implementations. In current implementations UAC are required to insert S-E header with currently negotiated session timer role an refresh. As i have mentioned before UA specify S-E to initiate session timer and to avoid both sides of the dialog being refreshers and causing INVITE collisions. More importantly your proposal is not going to help us in any way if multiple proxies are present. Consider this scenario: Alice Proxy A Proxy B Bob |(1) INVITE | | | |-------------->| | | | |(2) INVITE | | | | SE: 600 | | | |-------------->| | | | |(3) INVITE | | | | SE: 600 | | | |-------------->| | | |(4) UPDATE | | | |<--------------| | |(5) UPDATE | | | | SE: 900 | | | |<--------------| | |(6) UPDATE | | | | SE: 600 | | | |<--------------| | | |(7) 200(UPD) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=uas | | | |-------------->| | | | |(8) 200(UPD) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=uas | | | |-------------->| | | | |(9) 200(UPD) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=uas | | | |-------------->| | | |(10) 200(INV) | | | |<--------------| | |(11) 200(INV) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=uac | | | |<--------------| | |(12) 200(INV) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=uac | | | |<--------------| | | | | | | As you can see Proxy B receives (2) INVITE with S-E. If the rules I have proposed are applied, then Alice will get the same refresh interval and the will be the refresher as a result of both UPDATE and INVITE transactions. How is this going to work with your rules? >Same issue as Q2 -- there might be multiple proxies. This can possibly be > replaced by applying the rule for requests to responses as well, i.e. proxy > can reduce the refresh interval but not > >change the refresher if it is already specified, but this can potentially > cause behavior changes to current RFC when UAC specifies the refresh > interval. > > The case where the UAC receives different S-E values in (4) and (8) is > causing problems today. > > Sure, we can say that the UAC should send a new UPDATE if that happens, > but existing deployments won't do that. But, we can minimize the risk of > this to occur by specifying the following: > > 1) As described in Q1, the proxy rejects too small values with 422, rather > than forwarding them. > 2) By default, a proxy must always insert the same S-E value in each > direction. The proxy is only allowed to change the value if it is able to > keep track of ongoing transactions etc. > Again, I am not sure what you are saying here and how this is going to work. I have a feeling though that this is going to break existing implementations. Finally, in current session timer RFC we have unspecified behavior, which is handling and generation of S-E header in intersecting transactions. This is primarily UA specific behavior and has little to do with proxies. Currently UA implement something random when generating UPDATE message or processing mismatching S-E headers in UPDATE and INVITE. Whatever we specify, UA implementations MUST be updated to support this. So let's try to fix things there. Proxies contribute to the problem by being inconsistent, i.e. inserting different S-E headers for no specific reason and we can fix this as well, but I do not think the problem is fixable by changing proxies alone. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000009d54ee057750f7d5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 2:38 AM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> w= rote:

In addition, I think we should say tha= t UAs SHOULD NOT insert S-E to begin with. That gives the proxy more freedo= m to insert whatever value it wants.


This is not going to imple= mentable if we try to provide any sort of backwards compatibility with exis= ting implementations. In current implementations UAC are required to insert= S-E header with currently negotiated session timer role an refresh. As i h= ave mentioned before UA specify S-E to initiate session timer and to avoid = both sides of the dialog being refreshers and causing INVITE collisions.

More importantly your proposal is not going to help = us in any way if multiple proxies are present. Consider this scenario:

Alice=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proxy A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proxy= B=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bob
=C2=A0|(1) INVITE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
= =C2=A0|-------------->|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(2) INVITE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|-= ------------->|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= /font>
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(3) INVITE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
<= font face=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|--------= ------>|
=C2=A0|=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(4) UPDATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<--------------|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|(5) UPDATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2= =A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SE: 900=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<--------------|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|(6) UPDATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|= <--------------|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
<= font face=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A0|(7) 200(UPD)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2= =A0| refresher=3Duas |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|-------------->|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(8) 2= 00(UPD)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| refresher=3Duas |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|-= ------------->|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= /font>
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(9) 200(UPD)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| = SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| refresher=3Dua= s |
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|-------------->|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(10) = 200(INV)=C2=A0 |
=C2= =A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<--------------|
<= div>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(11) 200(INV)=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| = SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2= =A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| refresher=3Dua= c |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<--------------|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|(12) 200(INV)=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= /font>
=C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| refresher=3Duac |=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|<--------------|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|

As you can see Proxy B receives = (2) INVITE with S-E. If the rules I have proposed are applied, then Alice w= ill get the same refresh interval and the will be the refresher as a result= of both UPDATE and INVITE transactions.

How is th= is going to work with your rules?

>Same issue as Q2 -- the= re might be multiple proxies.=C2=A0This can possibly be replaced by applyin= g the rule for requests to responses as well, i.e. proxy can reduce the ref= resh interval but not=C2=A0
>change the refresher if it is already specified, but this can pote= ntially cause behavior changes to current RFC when UAC specifies the refres= h interval.

The case where the UAC receives different S-E values in (4) and (8) is= causing problems today.

Sure, we can say that the UAC should send a new UPDATE if that happens= , but existing deployments won't do that. But, we can minimize the risk= of this to occur by specifying the following:

1) As described in Q1, the proxy rejects too small values with 422, ra= ther than forwarding them.
2) By default, a=C2=A0proxy must always insert the same S-E value in e= ach direction. The proxy is only allowed to change the value if it is able = to keep track of ongoing transactions etc.

Again, I am not sure what you are= saying here and how this is going to work. I have a feeling though that th= is is going to break existing implementations.

Fin= ally, in current session timer RFC we have unspecified behavior, which is h= andling and generation of S-E header in intersecting transactions. This is = primarily UA specific behavior and has little to do with proxies. Currently= UA implement something random when generating UPDATE message or processing= mismatching S-E headers in UPDATE and INVITE. Whatever we specify, UA impl= ementations MUST be updated to support this. So let's try to fix things= there. Proxies contribute to the problem by being inconsistent, i.e. inser= ting different S-E headers for no specific reason and we can fix this as we= ll, but I do not think the problem is fixable by changing proxies alone.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
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boundary="_000_VI1PR07MB478239681A0A9FD75E29DB0893E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 331a0f6f-34ce-46a3-c7e8-08d62924e5b2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Oct 2018 11:39:36.7201 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3360 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SbUhTYRTHee69u7tKq2fLl4Om4cgvmqZSOELCIkJIy76EaKU3vamo0+5d kkIoFCGKJuVIV6ZzU9bmelGzstSUVCy1KAgTyleyFM3IYSZaXu8Ev/3O//8/5zwHHoZUdci8 mHStjuO1bKaadqWq4p7mBxVYWxJCrA65xnyjkdZYHr2SaSrf60mN408THUlFrf5cIKKeG77I o8zmZSJqpCInlop3jUjhMtNzOX7foSTXtL+11bKcx2Z0ua/WTBWi21dRMXJhAO8HU0UvJbIK 9yAw6Nli5LrODgT/VtoJqTARUFJaSosFhctJmLEvIsm5ScC9ua+0VIwjmHZ0rg9jGBproGQt UJzrhv1hdekWITKJc+DtaOtGZCe+CIVjKinCQ0lPESWOccPfEPR3dchEg8J7wLRilYt5BT4D /W0x0qqa7dBrqSbFjAs+BU/qF2mREfaApTeNzl2eMDJVQ0h3YjC/fEdK7A4/JtdkUp6FTuuY U/eDwflxZ94HPtSUbBwJuEMOpnkbJRlBsKDXOxtioGqln5BCfQgWPjc6uwOg/W6TTOIMsE8X 0Zt60WuDM+ML1tJxqhyFGLY8VuJsqDM4SJEVWAn9VVOUpAfDsL6CljgQGoyzpMRBULnWTW3V a5HcitwFThCyUsPCgjk+PVkQsrXBWk7XhNZ/VVfLysFnqGv6cDfCDFJvUyQZWxJUMjZXyMvq RsCQajdFGducoFKksHn5HJ+dyF/K5IRu5M1Qak/FkQuaeBVOZXVcBsflcPymSzAuXoUoUTnr 8WIowThw6s5s3rnonrSy8V+qUfvpZJNlbrdfcPrEsQNLZe7kYEF4faHs4TXf8lZ/2/WP/LBH /ffJhgVLeFtBbLRu11G7d2TS0PGyE/F1irGMk3u1cYLN3TfiSnRyi/Ksj7HN+NsW+smyeH/C LgiCsu18Mzeg02bvWJ55oKaENDY0gOQF9j/7fs8BUQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 11:39:48 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB478239681A0A9FD75E29DB0893E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In addition, I think we should say that UAs SHOULD NOT insert S-E to begin = with. That gives the proxy more freedom to insert whatever value it wants. >This is not going to implementable if we try to provide any sort of >backw= ards compatibility with existing implementations. >In current implementations UAC are required to insert S-E header >with cur= rently negotiated session timer role an refresh. As i have >mentioned befor= e UA specify S-E to initiate session timer and to >avoid both sides of the = dialog being refreshers and causing INVITE >collisions. That's why it is a SHOUD - we wouldn't make existing deployments non-compli= ant, but we would discourage future implementations from doing it. >More importantly your proposal is not going to help us in any way if >mult= iple proxies are present. Consider this scenario: Alice Proxy A Proxy B Bob |(1) INVITE | | | |-------------->| | | | |(2) INVITE | | | | SE: 600 | | | |-------------->| | | | |(3) INVITE | | | | SE: 600 | | | |-------------->| | | |(4) UPDATE | | | |<--------------| | |(5) UPDATE | | | | SE: 900 | | | |<--------------| | |(6) UPDATE | | | | SE: 600 | | | |<--------------| | | |(7) 200(UPD) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=3Duas | | | |-------------->| | | | |(8) 200(UPD) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=3Duas | | | |-------------->| | | | |(9) 200(UPD) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=3Duas | | | |-------------->| | | |(10) 200(INV) | | | |<--------------| | |(11) 200(INV) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=3Duac | | | |<--------------| | |(12) 200(INV) | | | | SE: 600 | | | | refresher=3Duac | | | |<--------------| | | | | | | >As you can see Proxy B receives (2) INVITE with S-E. If the rules I >have = proposed are applied, then Alice will get the same refresh >interval and th= e will be the refresher as a result of both UPDATE and >INVITE transactions= . > > How is this going to work with your rules? In the same way: if 600 is too small for Proxy B then it sends 422. >Same issue as Q2 -- there might be multiple proxies. This can possibly be = replaced by applying the rule for requests to responses as well, i.e. proxy= can reduce the refresh interval but not >change the refresher if it is already specified, but this can potentially = cause behavior changes to current RFC when UAC specifies the refresh interv= al. The case where the UAC receives different S-E values in (4) and (8) is caus= ing problems today. Sure, we can say that the UAC should send a new UPDATE if that happens, but= existing deployments won't do that. But, we can minimize the risk of this = to occur by specifying the following: 1) As described in Q1, the proxy rejects too small values with 422, rather = than forwarding them. 2) By default, a proxy must always insert the same S-E value in each direct= ion. The proxy is only allowed to change the value if it is able to keep tr= ack of ongoing transactions etc. >Again, I am not sure what you are saying here and how this is going to wor= k. I have a feeling though that this is going to break existing implementat= ions. There is no fix we can do that won't break some existing implementations (U= As and/or proxies). But, we can fix the problems for future implementations - and existing impl= ementations that can be fixed. I am aware of proxies that CAN be updated, b= ut before that is done we need to know how to update them. >Finally, in current session timer RFC we have unspecified behavior, which = is handling and generation of S-E header in intersecting transactions. This= is primarily UA specific behavior and has little to do with >proxies. Currently UA implement something random when generating UPDATE me= ssage or processing mismatching S-E headers in UPDATE and INVITE. Whatever = we specify, UA implementations MUST be >updated to support this. So let's try to fix things there. Proxies contrib= ute to the problem by being inconsistent, i.e. inserting different S-E head= ers for no specific reason and we can fix this as well, Well, that is what I have been suggesting... >but I do not think the problem is fixable by changing proxies alone. I am not saying that. We for sure can define that a UA should send a new UP= DATE if it receives inconsistent information. If we distribute the "burdon"= among proxies and UAs we can hope that at least some update their implemen= tations :) Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB478239681A0A9FD75E29DB0893E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


In addition, I think we should say th= at UAs SHOULD NOT insert S-E to begin with. That gives the proxy more freedom= to insert whatever value it wants.


>This is not going to implementable if we try to provide any sort o= f >backwards compatibility with existing implementations.
>In current implementations UAC are required to insert S-E header &= gt;with currently negotiated session timer role an refresh. As i have >m= entioned before UA specify S-E to initiate session timer and to >avoid b= oth sides of the dialog being refreshers and causing INVITE >collisions.

That's why it is a SHOUD - we wouldn't make existing deployments non-c= ompliant, but we would discourage future implementations from doing it.

>More importantly your proposal is not going to help us in any way = if >multiple proxies are present. Consider this scenario:

Alice        &= nbsp; Proxy A          Proxy B     =    Bob
 |(1) INVITE    &nb= sp;|               |    &= nbsp;          |
 |-------------->|  &= nbsp;            |       =        |
 |       =        |(2) INVITE     |    &= nbsp;          |
 |       =        | SE: 600       |  &nb= sp;            |
 |       =        |-------------->|       =        |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |(3) INVITE     |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  | SE: 600       |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |-------------->|
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |(4) UPDATE     |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |<--------------|
 |       =        |(5) UPDATE     |    &= nbsp;          |
 |       =        | SE: 900       |  &nb= sp;            |
 |       =        |<--------------|       =        |
 |(6) UPDATE    &nb= sp;|               |    &= nbsp;          |
 | SE: 600     = ;  |               |  &nb= sp;            |
 |<--------------|  &= nbsp;            |       =        |
 |(7) 200(UPD)   |&= nbsp;              |     =          |
 | SE: 600     = ;  |               |  &nb= sp;            |
 | refresher=3Duas |  &n= bsp;            |        =        |
 |-------------->|  &= nbsp;            |       =        |
 |       =        |(8) 200(UPD)   |     =          |
 |       =        | SE: 600       |  &nb= sp;            |
 |       =        | refresher=3Duas |        =        |
 |       =        |-------------->|       =        |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |(9) 200(UPD)   |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  | SE: 600       |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  | refresher=3Duas |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |-------------->|
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |(10) 200(INV)  |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |<--------------|
 |       =        |(11) 200(INV)  |      &nbs= p;        |
 |       =        | SE: 600       |  &nb= sp;            |
 |       =        | refresher=3Duac |        =        |
 |       =        |<--------------|       =        |
 |(12) 200(INV)  | =              |      &nbs= p;        |
 | SE: 600     = ;  |               |  &nb= sp;            |
 | refresher=3Duac |  &n= bsp;            |        =        |
 |<--------------|  &= nbsp;            |       =        |
 |       =        |            &nbs= p;  |               |

>As you can see Proxy B receives (2) INVITE with S-E. If the rules = I >have proposed are applied, then Alice will get the same refresh >i= nterval and the will be the refresher as a result of both UPDATE and >IN= VITE transactions.
>
> How is this going to work with your rules?

In the same way: if 600 is too small for Proxy B then it sends 422.

>Same issue as Q2 -- there might be = multiple proxies. This can possibly be replaced by applying the rule f= or requests to responses as well, i.e. proxy can reduce the refresh interva= l but not 
>change the refresher if it is already specified, but this can pote= ntially cause behavior changes to current RFC when UAC specifies the refres= h interval.

The case where the UAC receives different S-E values in (4) and (8) is= causing problems today.

Sure, we can say that the UAC should send a new UPDATE if that happens= , but existing deployments won't do that. But, we can minimize the risk of = this to occur by specifying the following:

1) As described in Q1, the proxy rejects too small values with 422, ra= ther than forwarding them.
2) By default, a proxy must always insert the same S-E value in e= ach direction. The proxy is only allowed to change the value if it is able = to keep track of ongoing transactions etc.

>Again, I am not sure what you are saying here and how this is goin= g to work. I have a feeling though that this is going to break existing imp= lementations.

There is no fix we can do that won't break some existing implementatio= ns (UAs and/or proxies).

But, we can fix the problems for future implementations - and exi= sting implementations that can be fixed. I am aware of proxies that CAN be = updated, but before that is done we need to know how to update them.

>Finally, in current session timer RFC we have unspecified behavior= , which is handling and generation of S-E header in intersecting transactio= ns. This is primarily UA specific behavior and has little to do with <= /div>
>proxies. Currently UA implement something random when generating U= PDATE message or processing mismatching S-E headers in UPDATE and INVITE. W= hatever we specify, UA implementations MUST be 
>updated to support this. So let's try to fix things there. Proxies= contribute to the problem by being inconsistent, i.e. inserting different = S-E headers for no specific reason and we can fix this as well, 

Well, that is what I have been suggesting...

>but I do not think the probl= em is fixable by changing proxies alone.

I am not saying that. We for sure can define that a UA should send a n= ew UPDATE if it receives inconsistent information. If we distribute the &qu= ot;burdon" among proxies and UAs we can hope that at least some update= their implementations :)

Regards,

Christer
 
--_000_VI1PR07MB478239681A0A9FD75E29DB0893E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_-- From nobody Wed Oct 3 05:01:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D63413126F for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 05:01:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NHm5QWJ4961b for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 05:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com (mail-pf1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F521131280 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 05:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id k19-v6so1604627pfi.1 for ; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 05:01:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AH+zDR61WoM1AkDob6EhgU7Xb5QmNXz1rq8HMV+VbYw=; b=UyAzQZxIqVAXsN0VW60jsEx5IZjgyuJJTo+tMretXcKwqFuhknMMMFp/YRNzjj2zb/ vNJcJ6KTSO4G4StROBNKRIZKcJMK0svJMdwHDoCngdGqokJmWzd30sxMq5UOURDfq8+m 9NPxh/M6VS6Yy0dui5P+n/YGlW29BZ2OIfB9tssIpDZOeoYg3ZcOvUflCTzU0TAMEwyA O1CQDYEjYOSKOA/Bitx9uOXVXUuCOgy+ldHQQ9uMJTgreZfnz1550krLZXBYlRo4dXYI bBMKffGPI479cgbNV5CrUg5SOG4FAI03j0bNamiQxGzFwEdFXXWVHtA/pzVFCLwl+FmA +T5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AH+zDR61WoM1AkDob6EhgU7Xb5QmNXz1rq8HMV+VbYw=; b=V1o+HRKGbfcgRwSvLHBgWFc69Fr26OsTd41/hg9AjQtsz8d/id9nHyy20Oz5zdi+Uw avznlMvONJFA3O/GQ8rb2WwrhGtAJdfxJTqubC/GQyuJuCkwAfTxXFt0rK9Acn7t6tvZ RNWEEUdJP+fAnM45Yn/zdpda2hxORuvl914YrwapY+/Zn96Fk9cGoXimIs2STEEJbeF9 3r6QNw4Q8V9I7RzTcgRBtcfkiv9WLgSg/fBGRm/n5vQk0DYghcgymHh7MjiH0mBEbAGs c3j8/tCCbHUOOiCmjMGWEUG+1ChKD9jWtnK0MIZldHW3O12IZ/dKS7POt0w28zQdkAd5 3N5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogOlSNyjhBie3Xj6Z/FPzZBGu4n2jTVxhKPUVTAhzsvYSQeYkaX RMtcOHpR8UtX2MJi8pVc1OHs3sNk0Lo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV63cTkSV3bdRbrWspPYIu1rHVd2bXlWVg/DmAePP8BDEKLtoNcyMfvkNxwAzbinezum2TMh2eQ== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:80cd:: with SMTP id a13-v6mr1276642pfn.86.1538568095604; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 05:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-f171.google.com (mail-pl1-f171.google.com. [209.85.214.171]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r1-v6sm2254108pff.145.2018.10.03.05.01.34 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Oct 2018 05:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f171.google.com with SMTP id s4-v6so3382681plp.0 for ; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 05:01:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:30a3:: with SMTP id v32-v6mr1254180plb.277.1538568094436; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 05:01:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 08:01:24 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bb5277057751cc51" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 12:01:44 -0000 --000000000000bb5277057751cc51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 7:39 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > How is this going to work with your rules? > > In the same way: if 600 is too small for Proxy B then it sends 422. > In my example Proxy A needs a signalling request at most every 600 seconds. Proxy B needs a signaling request at most every 900 seconds. The low boundary for both proxies (Min-SE) is something different and can be 60 seconds for both. So, when session setup traverses both proxies, it should negotiate the refresh interval of 600 seconds. Either Proxy A or B should refuse the INVITE or UPDATE if refresh interval in S-E is greater then 60. > There is no fix we can do that won't break some existing implementations > (UAs and/or proxies). > > But, we can fix the problems for future implementations - and existing > implementations that can be fixed. I am aware of proxies that CAN be > updated, but before that is done we need to know how to update them. > > >Finally, in current session timer RFC we have unspecified behavior, which > is handling and generation of S-E header in intersecting transactions. This > is primarily UA specific behavior and has little to do with > >proxies. Currently UA implement something random when generating UPDATE > message or processing mismatching S-E headers in UPDATE and INVITE. > Whatever we specify, UA implementations MUST be > >updated to support this. So let's try to fix things there. Proxies > contribute to the problem by being inconsistent, i.e. inserting different > S-E headers for no specific reason and we can fix this as well, > > Well, that is what I have been suggesting... > > >but I do not think the problem is fixable by changing proxies alone. > > I am not saying that. We for sure can define that a UA should send a new > UPDATE if it receives inconsistent information. If we distribute the > "burdon" among proxies and UAs we can hope that at least some update their > implementations :) > I do not mind updating multiple components, but what I am looking for is: 1. Proposed solution does not break existing use cases. Currently session timer is initiated by both proxies and UA, but your proposal breaks that. Some B2BUA are a little more then proxies and cannot initiate session timer on their own. Some UA do not have the media so they need session timer to negotiate a signaling keep alive. 2. Proposed solution does not change the currently specified behavior unless this behavior is inconsistent. We should try to fix things by putting restrictions around things which are currently not specified or contradict each other. Your proposal prevents UA from inserting S-E in INVITE. Current RFC requires UA to insert S-E for currently negotiated session timer, so this is clearly not satisfied as well. 3. Proposed solution is implementable and does not impose undue burden on an implementer. Sending an extra UPDATE from the UA should be trivial, since it sends such transactions for every refresh anyway. In this case refresh is sent with 0 second delay instead of half the expiration interval. Changing how proxy handles session state is not trivial and requires major logic changes. Forcing proxy to be consistent (only increase Min-SE, only decrease S-E expiration, etc) should be acceptable, since this is what proxies were supposed to be doing anyway and is currently under-specified. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000bb5277057751cc51 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 7:39 AM Christer Holmberg &= lt;christer.holmberg@eric= sson.com> wrote:

&g= t;=C2=A0How is this going to work with your rules?


In the same way: if 600 is too small for Proxy B then it sends 422.

In my example Proxy A needs a signalling request at most every 600 secon= ds. Proxy B needs a signaling request at most every 900 seconds. The low bo= undary for both proxies (Min-SE) is something different and can be 60 secon= ds for both. So, when session setup traverses both proxies, it should negot= iate the refresh interval of 600 seconds. Either Proxy A or B should refuse= the INVITE or UPDATE if refresh interval in S-E is greater then 60.
<= div>=C2=A0
There is no fix we can do that won't break some existing implement= ations (UAs and/or proxies).

But, we can fix the problems for future implementations -=C2=A0and exi= sting implementations that can be fixed. I am aware of proxies that CAN be = updated, but before that is done we need to know how to update them.

>Finally, in current session timer RFC we have unspecified behavior= , which is handling and generation of S-E header in intersecting transactio= ns. This is primarily UA specific behavior and has little to do with=C2=A0<= /div>
>proxies. Currently UA implement something random when generating U= PDATE message or processing mismatching S-E headers in UPDATE and INVITE. W= hatever we specify, UA implementations MUST be=C2=A0
>updated to support this. So let's try to fix things there. Pro= xies contribute to the problem by being inconsistent, i.e. inserting differ= ent S-E headers for no specific reason and we can fix this as well,=C2=A0

Well, that is what I have been suggesting...

>but I do=C2=A0not think the problem= is fixable by changing proxies alone.

I am not saying that. We for sure can define that a UA should send a n= ew UPDATE if it receives inconsistent information. If we distribute the &qu= ot;burdon" among proxies and UAs we can hope that at least some update= their implementations :)

I do not mind updating multiple components, = but what I am looking for is:

1. Proposed solution= does not break existing use cases. Currently session timer is initiated by= both proxies and UA, but your proposal breaks that. Some B2BUA are a littl= e more then proxies and cannot initiate session timer on their own. Some UA= do not have the media so they need session timer to negotiate a signaling = keep alive.

2. Proposed solution does not change t= he currently specified behavior unless this behavior is inconsistent. We sh= ould try to fix things by putting restrictions around things which are curr= ently not specified or contradict each other. Your proposal prevents UA fro= m inserting S-E in INVITE. Current RFC requires UA to insert S-E for curren= tly negotiated session timer, so this is clearly not satisfied as well.=C2= =A0

3. Proposed solution is implementable and does= not impose undue burden on an implementer. Sending an extra UPDATE from th= e UA should be trivial, since it sends such transactions for every refresh = anyway. In this case refresh is sent with 0 second delay instead of half th= e expiration interval. Changing how proxy handles session state is not triv= ial and requires major logic changes. Forcing proxy to be consistent (only = increase Min-SE, only decrease S-E expiration, etc) should be acceptable, s= ince this is what proxies were supposed to be doing anyway and is currently= under-specified.

Regards,
_____________
R= oman Shpount
=C2=A0
=
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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB1567; H:VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: x41c/ZRv2Iid9Bo15dB1fZmSysFssNWBiIyi571boDjb+PeesIduyrKpAzlY4wq3aq+NkF/EIJjNuQcYCiPoQ14QjnXTXDgDDNA/rEXRqX8PX5jors0fwaKYw6jsjX/x07X0U2U/6E9+36jqfmPfJ/14nlshslZOxi4jGKFpnz+O5+TfYHZsij59Yfd5D0vYuHL4bcJTMqop3ntQmY9gjaYX04g8bchMNPYMlKGHRnPXwCfAEG6g9dPzkaw0pBpylAUDbuicQM3L9oauLSpGwxW8hibSClIl08kbp+ayjgVykvofSjYOoWiPxZtoSnumSTUVh75qyQ0aycHhg/jwdz6rm9hNitZFqhIGUPa/z40= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_VI1PR07MB4782DA5B240869AB1FBE49C793E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 87f20700-b3dc-43aa-731b-08d629294303 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Oct 2018 12:10:51.3107 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB1567 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Sa0hTYRjHeXfOtuNq9DpvT6ZdhvbBpfOGLYpuUBgk2IcgNLCpJxVv8xy1 FgVGIDYxxbbS9UFNKTMFb6jTWLa0ltEcRiGC6ZxJoZgf8pZt5Tyn8Nvvef7/5/0/D7wUITML A6msvEKayVPnyEUSsvZSLxM+1tGdHPl7Y7eqqbJVpGpuHxSqauwGQrW81ik6Sca7fiwJ4k3G SXF8U9O6IH5Cr0kkkyTH0umcrGKaUR6/IsksvT1NaOzR10tXnqISZA7TIS8KcCz0184hHZJQ MjyMYHHjs5grlhHUTL7mlUYBtA3fEXkKElcR4GoeFHBKtQD0tat84UDwyPJTqEMUJcIqKHcr PCG+OBRcq/cFHiawBt5P9ZAeiw8ugJJpGWdhoHy4jPQ844tXENQt2Lb8JA4Bk80p9LAUX4a6 TzP8fqZd4KqcRx7BC1+AsdZKsYcR9ofVkVY+LAAmZusE3KUYml6MEhz7wXenW8jxAfiw6OA9 wTBWV751M2CzGN7YrCJOCIclg4EfTgCLtY3kTG8RTD4YEXNCGDzWW/kt1PCyZZofyIahxvX/ nrIhI5+2F1oqHGQVijRuW5bjfLj30Cg0bl3tDe9qZ0muHwHjBr2IYwU8aZgnOA6HGreF3N6v R+IW5MfSbGpuRnRMBM1kpbFsfl5EHl3YiTZ/1avujdA+9HHhlAVhCsl3Sg81dCfLhOpiVptr QUARcl8pbt9sSdPV2hs0k5/CFOXQrAXtoUh5gNRxuCtJhjPUhXQ2TWto5p8qoLwCS5BM74ya MSsVqco0hZgqP2E/srg0nbJfOXfOdnCt5+q8xOQbYpDHjWoT6eendewfu67TXTbSfy1OGJMp /aK+aS2gKp/1dvU5y74W9Uadqfb+1vzLp6LKlHCremAoqJjedzcqyKq1n5+JrfevSTh6dsrl HneMB+/osBUNVFycTJCTbKY6KoxgWPVf9t02bVEDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 12:11:03 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB4782DA5B240869AB1FBE49C793E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, ... > I do not mind updating multiple components, but what I am looking for is: > > 1. Proposed solution does not break existing use cases. Currently session= timer is initiated by both proxies and UA, but your proposal breaks that. = Some B2BUA are a little more then proxies and cannot > initiate session timer on their own. Some UA do not have the media so the= y need session timer to negotiate a signaling keep alive. > > 2. Proposed solution does not change the currently specified behavior unl= ess this behavior is inconsistent. We should try to fix things by putting r= estrictions around things which are currently not specified > or contradict each other. Your proposal prevents UA from inserting S-E in= INVITE. Current RFC requires UA to insert S-E for currently negotiated ses= sion timer, so this is clearly not satisfied as well. With my proposals UAs would still be allowed to initiate session timer. The= idea of recommending against UA including S-E is that the chance of 422 is= smaller, but UAs would for sure still be allowed to do it. And, to clarify, UA inserting S-E for negotiated session timer is ok, becau= se the proxy should be fine with that value. > 3. Proposed solution is implementable and does not impose undue burden on= an implementer. Sending an extra UPDATE from the UA should be trivial, sin= ce it sends such transactions for every refresh anyway. > In this case refresh is sent with 0 second delay instead of half the expi= ration interval. Changing how proxy handles session state is not trivial an= d requires major logic changes. Forcing proxy to be consistent > (only increase Min-SE, only decrease S-E expiration, etc) should be accep= table, since this is what proxies were supposed to be doing anyway and is c= urrently under-specified. We are not "forcing" anything - we are giving recommendations on how to mak= e things work. And, regarding session state, if the uses a consistent S-E value there is n= o need to session state. Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB4782DA5B240869AB1FBE49C793E90VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


...


> I do not mind updating multiple components, but what I am lo= oking for is:
>
> 1. Proposed solution does not break existing use cases. Curr= ently session timer is initiated by both proxies and UA, but your proposal = breaks that. Some B2BUA are a little more then proxies and cannot
> initiate session timer on their own. Some UA do not have the= media so they need session timer to negotiate a signaling keep alive.
>
> 2. Proposed solution does not change the currently specified= behavior unless this behavior is inconsistent. We should try to fix things= by putting restrictions around things which are currently not specified&nb= sp;
> or contradict each other. Your proposal prevents UA from ins= erting S-E in INVITE. Current RFC requires UA to insert S-E for currently n= egotiated session timer, so this is clearly not satisfied as well. 

With my proposals UAs would still be allowed to initiate session timer. The= idea of recommending against UA including S-E is that the chance of 4= 22 is smaller, but UAs would for sure still be allowed to do it.

And, to clarify, UA inserting S-E for negotiated session timer is ok, becau= se the proxy should be fine with that value.

> 3. Proposed solution is implementable and does not impose un= due burden on an implementer. Sending an extra UPDATE from the UA should be= trivial, since it sends such transactions for every refresh anyway. <= /div>
> In this case refresh is sent with 0 second delay instead of = half the expiration interval. Changing how proxy handles session state is n= ot trivial and requires major logic changes. Forcing proxy to be consistent=  
> (only increase Min-SE, only decrease S-E expiration, etc) sh= ould be acceptable, since this is what proxies were supposed to be doing an= yway and is currently under-specified.

We are not "forcing" anything - we are giving recommendation= s on how to make things work.

And, regarding session state, if the uses a consistent S-E value there= is no need to session state.

Regards,

Christer

 
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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q76-v6sm7602929pfa.18.2018.10.04.00.19.07 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 04 Oct 2018 00:19:07 -0700 (PDT) To: sipcore@ietf.org From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:19:05 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181003-20, 2018/10/04), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 07:19:10 -0000 Hi, As I said before, there is another problem in acurrent RFC that the proxy will receive SE result below an acceptable value. Because UAS can reduce SE-value below an acceptable one. RFC says in 8.1 =C2=A0=C2=A0 A proxy MUST NOT insert a Min-SE header =C2=A0=C2=A0 field or modify the value of an existing header field in a p= roxied =C2=A0=C2=A0 request if that request contains a Supported header field wi= th the =C2=A0=C2=A0 value 'timer'.=C2=A0 This is needed to protect against certa= in denial of =C2=A0=C2=A0 service attacks, described in Section 11. I've read Section 11, but I don't understand the need. To solve this problem, a proxy need to increase the Min-SE in a request. Regards, Shinji From nobody Thu Oct 4 00:47:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54043130DF3 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 00:47:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=Hp6wJhOT; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=T/Ybg2xb Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EyfuWg2ZoRbN for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 00:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CACE7130DF0 for ; 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Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:47:20 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value Thread-Index: AQHUW7KTZY0yCStFJky+6E3IbpxugqUOtPyH Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:47:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [89.166.49.243] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; VI1PR07MB4014; 6:p4M1emC/ripNlvmiBt6VmYVIQqlf4+1T23ab0LLtlg0iIfNFLDGCl5WgArjBRhCZJUoZHP8FcKk0Zvfgz766NnbFxbqpBooSDjKY3j89TO1cDfQKIjIq/ax5QUyi4htISXa6Aop7iGzoYY6wUQEAOoJywfm45vX8T5+0L7/INwx+iZtel3j+ZfBGjvW5jGEkUdGMiq6MrdOD5s3y1xSi1rPgVvE1x15UfJou7cWBpT818oAqLvtAgHAQ39YvDw4B7NcJszexeVZKWd3bnGlXb7qZapsiz1MT+vRiUIu2W1aB7nlsgXe+RGrwy31sYpq/DNxjY23gk2V05O51OieZpyZFEtOrLM4plx3hg0VS0RzH2pmuHSit8W4gm3msNjJ/oPXGxP6K0Tl89rnWgvieKqlhX9LK0keLKbjsXTcd/838l5UnyANiCAzq1CiGZIvzk14bn7p05LWnO+UcCg7sWw==; 5:mdOp2qjfaRrLOj6kFRvqgbJLMH65RShYdcKO2XY3HEcnI/ufJYzWRNwBoHse9m/ib3KEKiDGmVzIkezRXIV8k11CIGz6AVnL2NAVp0mRI8F3rPsEZPTjQV4Cc3io84P7opa8K0PuIpNY9t0GMFVzMGJLf9ZGjdgGWsuVTAADd7o=; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I am not sure I understand the issue. I don't think a proxy should lover the Min-SE value. Now, if the UA for whatever reason includes a very large Min-SE value, and = the proxy wants a lower value, I think the proxy should reject the request.= Perhaps we'd need a new response code for that. Regards, Christer ________________________________ From: sipcore on behalf of OKUMURA Shinji Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2018 10:19 AM To: sipcore@ietf.org Subject: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value Hi, As I said before, there is another problem in acurrent RFC that the proxy will receive SE result below an acceptable value. Because UAS can reduce SE-value below an acceptable one. RFC says in 8.1 A proxy MUST NOT insert a Min-SE header field or modify the value of an existing header field in a proxied request if that request contains a Supported header field with the value 'timer'. This is needed to protect against certain denial of service attacks, described in Section 11. I've read Section 11, but I don't understand the need. To solve this problem, a proxy need to increase the Min-SE in a request. Regards, Shinji _______________________________________________ sipcore mailing list sipcore@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore sipcore Info Page - IETF www.ietf.org The Session Initiation Protocol Core (SIPCore) working group is chartered t= o maintain and continue the development of the core SIP specifications, cur= rently defined ... --_000_VI1PR07MB47820BDCEAC5C60C9E1B2EB593EA0VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

I am not sure I understand the issue.

I don't think a proxy should lover the Min-SE value.

Now, if the UA for whatever reason includes a very large Min-SE value,= and the proxy wants a lower value, I think the proxy should reject the req= uest. Perhaps we'd need a new response code for that.

Regards,

Christer



From: sipcore <sipcore-b= ounces@ietf.org> on behalf of OKUMURA Shinji <ietf.shinji@gmail.com&g= t;
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2018 10:19 AM
To: sipcore@ietf.org
Subject: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value
 
Hi,

As I said before, there is another problem in acurrent RFC
that the proxy will receive SE result below an acceptable value.
Because UAS can reduce SE-value below an acceptable one.

RFC says in 8.1
   A proxy MUST NOT insert a Min-SE header
   field or modify the value of an existing header field in a pro= xied
   request if that request contains a Supported header field with= the
   value 'timer'.  This is needed to protect against certain= denial of
   service attacks, described in Section 11.

I've read Section 11, but I don't understand the need.

To solve this problem, a proxy need to increase the Min-SE in a request.
Regards,
Shinji


_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/sipcore
www.ietf.org
The Session Initiation Protocol Core (SIPCore) working group is chartered t= o maintain and continue the development of the core SIP specifications, cur= rently defined ...


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UAC sends SE: 1800/Min-SE: 900 2. Proxy desires results of 1200 to 1800. 1800 is acceptable, proxy forwa= rds it without any changes. 3. UAS returns SE: 900 The simplest solution is that proxy increase Min-SE to 1200. Do you know the reason why a proxy MUST neither insert=A0 nor modify a Mi= n-SE header? Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/04 16:47, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > I am not sure I understand the issue. > > I don't think a proxy should lover the Min-SE value. > > Now, if the UA for whatever reason includes a very large Min-SE value, = and the proxy wants a lower value, I think the proxy should reject the re= quest. Perhaps we'd need a new response code for that. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > ________________________________ > From: sipcore on behalf of OKUMURA Shinji > Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2018 10:19 AM > To: sipcore@ietf.org > Subject: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value > > Hi, > > As I said before, there is another problem in acurrent RFC > that the proxy will receive SE result below an acceptable value. > Because UAS can reduce SE-value below an acceptable one. > > RFC says in 8.1 > A proxy MUST NOT insert a Min-SE header > field or modify the value of an existing header field in a proxied > request if that request contains a Supported header field with the > value 'timer'. This is needed to protect against certain denial of > service attacks, described in Section 11. > > I've read Section 11, but I don't understand the need. > > To solve this problem, a proxy need to increase the Min-SE in a request= =2E > > Regards, > Shinji > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > sipcore Info Page - IETF= > www.ietf.org > The Session Initiation Protocol Core (SIPCore) working group is charter= ed to maintain and continue the development of the core SIP specification= s, currently defined ... > > > > From nobody Thu Oct 4 02:32:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CA06130E08 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 02:32:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.756 X-Spam-Level: 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[209.85.214.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v63-v6sm5509567pgd.69.2018.10.04.04.29.13 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 04 Oct 2018 04:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f174.google.com with SMTP id y15-v6so5031780plr.12 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 04:29:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:30a3:: with SMTP id v32-v6mr6074103plb.277.1538652553419; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 04:29:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:29:02 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e122fb057765768a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:29:17 -0000 --000000000000e122fb057765768a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 5:32 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Sorry, I read your first e-mail wrong: I thought you said that the proxy > would DECREASE Min-SE. But, now I see that you talk about INCREASE =F0=9F= =98=8A > > > I see no reason why a proxy couldn't increase Min-SE. > > > As we have learned, the main users of session timer are proxies, not UAs, > so a UA should not care if the minimum value is increased. > Technically speaking UA still care about how often they need to generate refresh since this can result in extra load on the UA. When session timer is negotiated, S-E specifies the max acceptable value and Min-SE specifies min acceptable value, so proxy should be able to increase Min-SE and decrease SE. At the end, session timer is negotiated at the maximum acceptable value, which is specified in SE. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000e122fb057765768a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 5:32 AM Christer Holmberg &= lt;christer.holmberg@eric= sson.com> wrote:

So= rry, I read your first e-mail wrong: I thought you said that the proxy woul= d DECREASE Min-SE. But, now I see that you talk about INCREASE =F0=9F=98=8A


I see no reason why a proxy= couldn't increase Min-SE.


As we have learned, the mai= n users of session timer are proxies, not UAs, so a UA should not care if t= he minimum value is increased.


=
Technically speaking UA still care about how often they need to = generate refresh since this can result in extra load on the UA. When sessio= n timer is negotiated, S-E specifies the max acceptable value and Min-SE sp= ecifies min acceptable value, so proxy should be able to increase Min-SE an= d decrease SE. At the end, session timer is negotiated at the maximum accep= table value, which is specified in SE.

Regards,_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
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b=cX+0vMxrXvGClkpLqu0mf7BPpj9myVPALUDUDh6nbmg7Ncc89E26JWSCx1g7mLKqllfwGXYqGV4LRTG+tCFgLoOQwxId+T4z2CFlK9TLJi/C70zDo88meJoIMDERL9BnNDg7tAEBHJgEXt05x9XB+5lJKX/BdRgkNz4I58nl/1I= Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.57.157) by VI1PR07MB1374.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.164.92.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1207.11; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:43:19 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221]) by VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1207.018; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:43:19 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value Thread-Index: AQHUW7KTZY0yCStFJky+6E3IbpxugqUOtPyHgAAXX4CAAAXZfIAAIU0AgAADZmI= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:43:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US 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Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:43:26 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB47821293EA331171C143D90493EA0VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNCg0KU29ycnksIEkgcmVhZCB5b3VyIGZpcnN0IGUtbWFpbCB3cm9uZzogSSB0aG91Z2h0 IHlvdSBzYWlkIHRoYXQgdGhlIHByb3h5IHdvdWxkIERFQ1JFQVNFIE1pbi1TRS4gQnV0LCBub3cg SSBzZWUgdGhhdCB5b3UgdGFsayBhYm91dCBJTkNSRUFTRSDwn5iKDQoNCg0KSSBzZWUgbm8gcmVh c29uIHdoeSBhIHByb3h5IGNvdWxkbid0IGluY3JlYXNlIE1pbi1TRS4NCg0KDQpBcyB3ZSBoYXZl IGxlYXJuZWQsIHRoZSBtYWluIHVzZXJzIG9mIHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIgYXJlIHByb3hpZXMsIG5v dCBVQXMsIHNvIGEgVUEgc2hvdWxkIG5vdCBjYXJlIGlmIHRoZSBtaW5pbXVtIHZhbHVlIGlzIGlu Y3JlYXNlZC4NCg0KPlRlY2huaWNhbGx5IHNwZWFraW5nIFVBIHN0aWxsIGNhcmUgYWJvdXQgaG93 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+0200 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 21:21:08 +0800 Message-ID: <5eaf2341-dc1f-4241-b0e4-99ad1737d753@email.android.com> X-Android-Message-ID: <5eaf2341-dc1f-4241-b0e4-99ad1737d753@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: From: roland.jesske@web.de To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Roman Shpount , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:a9l2yi8TOAQ+ErNhe4aYxDwNVPggbefD5VfwOuZwyINo8FmNnBl R7hCgvPGs2HxAPv6iCNN3cbV8UAOLZcoR/TjNLcSQE2qtxTbn1TEZ3zABp6RpGZMH0JCTF+ yDlFz0v2g8XhJMIgG0I4ei4i+qW6hA0KxjNdQqBan6b78p+0BTz4Dr1LbFJPZlqI8ysIEhK OnOUM/NWhNAv1qPxhgOAA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:JdmNVpamuOo=:9TnimCzU9udzgKjCeoJP9k 2ctNDUWkOsCm5BqCvT4xdfNHPz3kmssNcNrRR2F7/rMtWTOZOXqQ36tMrwYtQsht43GCMiev9 oLY86vKhYfY+/m8QJ075KG9M6P07PBixm72gJBSCrItuJ1/rvTc5AMF7D3zb+e85GfYiulYGl /ZnCoKDS3fFrUWQ0CUpPvYAZKWmPrmYSSXC523//zcse2CExHxOXDBFteV/FgTuMDzaarN7Co 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACE5130E60 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:39:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.866 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.866 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rUiDu-sbo_yv for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [212.227.15.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4517C130E3C for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [202.175.115.43] ([202.175.115.43]) by msvc-mesg-web104.server.lan (via HTTP); Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:39:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: "Roland Jesske" To: "Christer Holmberg" Cc: "Roman Shpount" , "OKUMURA Shinji" , SIPCORE Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Importance: normal Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:39:45 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:CwC6LwkgvJkFxNkhKYdV5suDOtPul9yuUznrLLnrYIgWaBAmu7CU7cRWsVK0pyVRt2LCT EeW7Q4Zj7AQs5hSEVKGyv6pj6HMKn178M/l7auA6upqkdZP2DQDiH6ondhW6/tlEMlWHmrXJGuCQ /A3WTZErWkoFzEWPcJi2+BsXwbN1P800FhL0nYRl2grCKfyiTciGMoNQbJX7UtYhcJTA0inEQQTH Pl1pv/0r9uwSzGO9VmA5UPzZz8ymlTzJ/UWvI0cb//wD8LQp9DL6yxyzFgUgDzImm94avLN+L50+ Ck= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:V9EV2VGhU0k=:WQC4UMoX0cwINNvvhTkEHU uPWuOXep4LzOiBxieHfHphwekdGMoqWj324wBGd7mQdiAonagbwlept197WabxiencZ/vX6/n muYmwvM3dUrZ6vcPg0JZ/363E8iMwnhLhyEVfzMgYC++GdvVSDJOfmrmqhE5J2l2kjlm/2aHs FS2wvyWjoNENDLy6PQTKtc9vgzUKl6wAYYaGNCYr0n9mUyKRbCLmiL9OOMzR7/zl2Eva4KWMF VkHZIVc5RzlKCKQ8rAlolpqsRIeVzoOEzaegGg+EqyUcNZtyxlHd/DE/VCWRWupFQVsnyECGn 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Hi Christer
Thank you for clarification=2E
I support your assumption=2E

Best Regards
Roland

--
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit WEB=2EDE Mail gesendet=2E
Am 04=2E10=2E18, 21:33, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer=2Eholmberg@ericsson=2Ecom> schrieb:

Hi,


The UAS is not allowed to includ= e Min-SE to begin with (unless it sends a 422 response)=2E


The UAS is currently allowe= d to reduce the S-E value in the response, as long as it it's larger than t= he Min-SE value in the corresponding request=2E My suggestion would be to s= ay that a UAS SHOULD NOT reduce the S-E=2E Again, assuming the proxies know better how often they want session refreshes, t= here is no need for the UAS to reduce the value=2E


Regards,


Christer




From: roland=2Ejesske@web= =2Ede <roland=2Ejesske@web=2Ede>
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2018 4:21 PM
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: Roman Shpount; OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable va= lue
 
Hi 
Reading this=2E I understand that the proxy should be al= lowed to increase the Min SE=2E 
For my understanding=2E
Following that the UAS cannot lower it again=2E Correct?=
That would be my understanding=2E

Best Regards
Roland

Am 04=2E10=2E2018 20:05 schrieb Christer Holm= berg <christer=2Eholmberg@ericsson=2Ecom>:

Hi,


In order to keep track of the s= uggested RFC modifications, I suggest that we create GitHub issues=2E


As an example, I created one fo= r Shinji's suggestion to allow a proxy to increase the Min-SE header field = value=2E


https://github=2Ecom/cdh4u/draft-sessiontime= r-race/issues/1
github=2Ecom
BACKGROUND: Section 8=2E1 of RFC 4028 says: "A proxy MUST NOT insert = a Min-SE header field or modify the value of an existing header field in a = proxied request if that request contains a Support=2E=2E=2E



(As always, any formal decision= whether to modify something will be made on the list)


Regards,


Christer





From: sipcore <sipcore-bounces@ietf=2Eorg>= ; on behalf of Christer Holmberg <christer=2Eholmberg@ericsson=2Ecom>=
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2018 2:43 PM
To: Roman Shpount
Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable va= lue
 

Hi,


= Sorry, I read your first e-mail wrong: I thought you said that the proxy wo= uld DECREASE Min-SE=2E But, now I see that you talk about INCREASE =F0=9F=98=8A


I see no reason why a proxy cou= ldn't increase Min-SE=2E


As we have learned, the main us= ers of session timer are proxies, not UAs, so a UA should not care if the m= inimum value is increased=2E


>Technically speaking UA still care about how often they need to g= enerate refresh since this can result in extra load on the UA=2E 

Sure, but increasing the Min-SE value will not result in extra load -= on the contrary it may reduce load :)

>When session timer is negotiated, S-E specifies the max acceptabl= e value and Min-SE specifies min acceptable value, so proxy should be able = to increase Min-SE and decrease SE=2E 

Correct=2E

Regards,

Christer

 

From nobody Sat Oct 6 00:51:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4B6130E48 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 00:51:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l6byWs0GsdEa for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 00:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x631.google.com (mail-pl1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::631]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 283F2130DD6 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 00:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x631.google.com with SMTP id f8-v6so7842737plb.2 for ; Sat, 06 Oct 2018 00:51:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=g3e3lWeYJEhxfjunUaa0o23aC+xY86ZwjI26LSYz0yo=; b=q+ozHiPalx7iiQ4+Tu9mgOE0SYLKgEdi2FSM4l0HTn6Y30WKszIBteeu7ngaLGFDxB XDeYmMh+jfQiJZJnKaZ330nVi7cJHh4TgRbMPtFqJ+lJmze+fGBup0BsNzBYHnt5wLI3 OyXSC9HOst52Po0nvkh66O2F9Fou9C8KO8u/EW0FBf+plZrEjCHtWLy/VRgc5KxPqhJs FSwmevxoGj2PQb0rr/nNgrQtmhXGN7wemq6x6jLc2pH7ZYSAdfcuPE9FrjK7Zzxrs92H LLt71DlE0yS0PjUWq6XgjEGRUtlxfsAB503ZwFj0NKLt1xtC05XLeDCDsWPMKzeUrya2 RS4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=g3e3lWeYJEhxfjunUaa0o23aC+xY86ZwjI26LSYz0yo=; b=tRRICtXJHD7SoCq7PZkKuwFOUnXKXgUWDXT/twv/oV56pJCe8dgaU7t7B99Wb2xxdq XV0cx/EUBAFdsBEqfkbe1IlJjZPFR4cKYW5RuTXp1RbmY/Be320RCIyE52ZxoDykoDi9 b+kRTrP0n8oEjcaEV/G1LCy7vkamdvSOhymQ7CqgEB2OqNIgg3EI38joSqChsTs61Wtb WSs6ryYCTC2z1Cl94KIwoXRZx0AUvxKUIPdEdVofppKu50wDkqk6mz75Q7P3TgJbtEt6 QQF7Qqnu3KFTaFcmPWFJ95s2fU+86HBTp+herPw/zks4yHwW1TYfxaORpcYy8KJDk4zG wXBg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohYEhB5lCyXk53lGHuNnpo7WQOUojgV4tCn6kaeHPyz6bg+rTNX NZqUekmqMqxT2A6dNrpwQKw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61nXorUDsxWKUObUsGsjIwuHuloq2aUR1L/9lz9K9ZACS0a9Xoo2Ye/G/qSu3Rvgcb7N/jImg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:bcc2:: with SMTP id o2-v6mr15138239pls.22.1538812262659; Sat, 06 Oct 2018 00:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u65-v6sm16821703pfb.144.2018.10.06.00.51.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Oct 2018 00:51:02 -0700 (PDT) To: SIPCORE Cc: Christer Holmberg , "roland.jesske@web.de" , Roman Shpount References: <5eaf2341-dc1f-4241-b0e4-99ad1737d753@email.android.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2018 16:50:56 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------420F174C8C31ADF38815ECC5" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181005-0, 2018/10/05), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 07:51:06 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------420F174C8C31ADF38815ECC5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, If a proxy decreases the S-E, the next proxy is more likely to reject the request by 422. So I think that a proxy should adjust the Min-SE rather than decrease the S-E. And ultimately, a UAS should decrease the S-E as low as possible after considering it's own wishes. Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/04 22:33, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > > The UAS is not allowed to include Min-SE to begin with (unless it sends= a 422 response). > > > The UAS is currently allowed to reduce the S-E value in the response, a= s long as it it's larger than the Min-SE value in the corresponding reque= st. My suggestion would be to say that a UAS SHOULD NOT reduce the S-E. A= gain, assuming the proxies know better how often they want session refres= hes, there is no need for the UAS to reduce the value. > > > Regards, > > > Christer > > > > ________________________________ > From: roland.jesske@web.de > Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2018 4:21 PM > To: Christer Holmberg > Cc: Roman Shpount; OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE > Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value > > Hi > Reading this. I understand that the proxy should be allowed to increase= the Min SE. > For my understanding. > Following that the UAS cannot lower it again. Correct? > That would be my understanding. > > Best Regards > Roland > > Am 04.10.2018 20:05 schrieb Christer Holmberg : > > Hi, > > > In order to keep track of the suggested RFC modifications, I suggest th= at we create GitHub issues. > > > As an example, I created one for Shinji's suggestion to allow a proxy t= o increase the Min-SE header field value. > > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sessiontimer-race/issues/1 > > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/9333380?s=3D400&v=3D4] > > Proxy allowed to increase Min-SE header field value =C2=B7 Issue #1 =C2= =B7 cdh4u/draft-sessiontimer-race > github.com > BACKGROUND: Section 8.1 of RFC 4028 says: "A proxy MUST NOT insert a Mi= n-SE header field or modify the value of an existing header field in a pr= oxied request if that request contains a Support... > > > > > > (As always, any formal decision whether to modify something will be mad= e on the list) > > > Regards, > > > Christer > > > > > ________________________________ > From: sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg= > Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2018 2:43 PM > To: Roman Shpount > Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE > Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value > > > Hi, > > > Sorry, I read your first e-mail wrong: I thought you said that the prox= y would DECREASE Min-SE. But, now I see that you talk about INCREASE =F0=9F= =98=8A > > > I see no reason why a proxy couldn't increase Min-SE. > > > As we have learned, the main users of session timer are proxies, not UA= s, so a UA should not care if the minimum value is increased. > >> Technically speaking UA still care about how often they need to genera= te refresh since this can result in extra load on the UA. > Sure, but increasing the Min-SE value will not result in extra load - o= n the contrary it may reduce load :) > >> When session timer is negotiated, S-E specifies the max acceptable val= ue and Min-SE specifies min acceptable value, so proxy should be able to = increase Min-SE and decrease SE. > Correct. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > --------------420F174C8C31ADF38815ECC5 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="pEpkey.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pEpkey.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBFusy3sBCADqvitDP+hZDEMDFt5LJxIxGISdSsPuBBRIn4hLJkiiUAO0MitA 4LQKtnk9QhYkEiom4oBj+B/Vd5rlB5nuWKY+lLscdJa45TwXrho5J57GQJJoIok+ HW3QVb6evKShoJygr9DgOSo/WC0vHTwFgtm+ewwK6Ac5XwQzNma4t8CWNebacip1 z5sQ4n1kttBj9CL+jYXO1ZeQdUZztZaDm49Gp+THMcOSbRmVjQlglaP2RWzXwzSz 7WPbcQEN541EGfOgtxmEO/64QLaRAoIFSngYpFS4OTZeP++jImBYA304Ys7CfpuQ NaXzrJlxeUbFz98UE3PqzgnNwtNpo73Bz3CfABEBAAG0Jk9LVU1VUkEgU2hpbmpp IDxpZXRmLnNoaW5qaUBnbWFpbC5jb20+iQFUBBMBCAA+FiEEEAG3Kg+o2hwQyjJZ NMxDsu+hDJAFAlusy30CGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AA CgkQNMxDsu+hDJAp0AgAgI26qCq1+cXQ+gi3hhcxK8ahL1GZvQtyt6x+tP4OB31w 0fK0/UuHIfR40MKOgxuQeQm1W0MDWUMsIwf3H9bDdlqrA5BlTIS90XV+Px84RHeD /8cgE+JLhOISeiZoxkbc6NXhyAzfScRUqW0hiGrBwePG9lxRja6Bse6sO0Hmaf3O 7MG7tZTO7tTEvrg/sgW91lwvANuwE9LjcUR4u+5q0H056VRlQ7Nd8yE2WePijSZI Zyn58/nmul/xuBvSCaURxAOkmlTxW+zLnaaHI7Go0Suq5ZnzAuAWxydNNPfuvHZz 3REaLyOcuyRyZ25D6iHN22mUM2GivlDyDQEpro5/Y7kBDQRbrMt8AQgA0JHMjIq/ 4Urgc8kANhAEXkJ7wcQC03BwJkOz+XKuquMKyNQhJgg76RtvtLQ57d3If9WCwlMF IK3QwJ4dZdsYubNTZSX2jEP69jrxqO1tZWz5Ky3zJj45J8RAOanuHwCUhlONaiik 0+DVWJnnnPyy2MKk+KHdvt5SJk35+Otu/mUjr5Zpnc1/HgbSfsLnt81X8JJEwfqc UCeFyiFIiQy83nBPV0YQlT++xNK3ITtkE23Oi27I1hueT7Rhh6zA5qjG8Vtour+A 7NsrOwRVe+Rp1axtdATZZrEpn/lCmfsqE5MIL3+6ETdxdpBr/XzCHk42+dUtF2FO a+IWSL+ncef5HQARAQABiQE8BBgBCAAmFiEEEAG3Kg+o2hwQyjJZNMxDsu+hDJAF Alusy3wCGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQNMxDsu+hDJAj4gf/YTLO3HZ9AvU6EiVF3WHKw2Di 7oFofhcPk3K6KTo08gZxg+4gJ3dwFsgPD8v/6wHGraFoqx5bIXLb4B2L+D0pLInv lmrRd16tRV8U3RFoRjdXQldgLr6Xk0YsZZR8zXEmnKJpAsFb+lg7k2zEFYLT40NC 5CcqWIQeN3KKVmhDsoVf+peGj4/5x5JT0hCwIAJ20H4jwUF1izrVUtV3caqbhACA 7xHEZ9k2pEdWxP3Dfxf9yBU6QZnpoj60sr1tSlNT8S0zqKE/GKcLrRbu5zIOdduP qW8IXu9xNDtBKgtqmq6q1cKxF/9EGduqagvoADaHnjZZ6yG5Mx3hayQ5yhOwKw=3D=3D =3DdwUx -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --------------420F174C8C31ADF38815ECC5-- From nobody Sat Oct 6 10:18:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D516130DF2 for ; 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Sat, 6 Oct 2018 13:17:58 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <5eaf2341-dc1f-4241-b0e4-99ad1737d753@email.android.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2018 13:17:58 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqOv+bke0wf9WQYuvPzaxOTB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr49LhyYwF85QrXr3dzdTAuE2mi5GTQ0LAROLN5VtMXYxcHEIC O5gkbsxrZodwvjNJvO2bxAhSJSzgJrHmwBEmEFtEQETi2fR/bBBFc5kkvs87wwqSYBPQkphz 6D8LiM0rYC8xt3cDWDOLgIrExS2TmUFsUYE0ib+dSxghagQlTs58AlbPKWArcfzsX7AFzAJm EvM2P2SGsMUlbj2ZDxWXl2jeOpt5AiP/LCTts5C0zELSMgtJywJGllWMcok5pbm6uYmZOcWp ybrFyYl5ealFuqZ6uZkleqkppZsYIYEpuINxxkm5Q4wCHIxKPLwz5m+PFmJNLCuuzD3EKMnB pCTK++jN1mghvqT8lMqMxOKM+KLSnNTiQ4wSHMxKIrwn5u+IFuJNSaysSi3Kh0lJc7AoifMy m+yNEhJITyxJzU5NLUgtgsnKcHAoSfA6vgVqFCxKTU+tSMvMKUFIM3FwggznARr++w3I8OKC xNzizHSI/ClGY449X5tmMHO0Pb0+g1mIJS8/L1VKnNcAZJwASGlGaR7cNFhyecUoDvScMG8Q SBUPMDHBzXsFtIoJZFUC2KqSRISUVANj/PP5vHwXvu4qv3BfR9nk615Z1U/7trIHsDJM5795 IcXrxLv887umnBANOf5A1vPOT5c5jjEtZuJxRV17gl/Ndu2UnBKQopnBZumvZShuoes7v1X1 QCPj2mf6O9jdGl7HLzvAKvjBY8K0DKP/jfGGd2wEd8tEWlgyJse+PLfdLVnpmaTny9tKLMUZ iYZazEXFiQDLJ/8OCQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 17:18:03 -0000 On 10/6/18 3:50 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi, > > If a proxy decreases the S-E, the next proxy is more likely to reject > the request by 422. > So I think that a proxy should adjust the Min-SE rather than decrease > the S-E. > And ultimately, a UAS should decrease the S-E as low as possible after > considering it's own wishes. There is an inherent conflict here: those elements (presumably proxies) that need the timer for tracking session state (e.g. for billing) may want a small S-E value to improve precision. The other elements (notably the UAs) that don't *need* it want the value as large as possible in order to reduce their load. The negotiation of S-E and Min-SE is intended to seek a compromise between these. But there is no guarantee that there is an acceptable compromise. Somebody may decide there is no acceptable value and reject the session. I see no "solution" to this. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > Shinji > > On 2018/10/04 22:33, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >> The UAS is not allowed to include Min-SE to begin with (unless it sends a 422 response). >> >> >> The UAS is currently allowed to reduce the S-E value in the response, as long as it it's larger than the Min-SE value in the corresponding request. My suggestion would be to say that a UAS SHOULD NOT reduce the S-E. Again, assuming the proxies know better how often they want session refreshes, there is no need for the UAS to reduce the value. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> Christer >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: roland.jesske@web.de >> Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2018 4:21 PM >> To: Christer Holmberg >> Cc: Roman Shpount; OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE >> Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value >> >> Hi >> Reading this. I understand that the proxy should be allowed to increase the Min SE. >> For my understanding. >> Following that the UAS cannot lower it again. Correct? >> That would be my understanding. >> >> Best Regards >> Roland >> >> Am 04.10.2018 20:05 schrieb Christer Holmberg : >> >> Hi, >> >> >> In order to keep track of the suggested RFC modifications, I suggest that we create GitHub issues. >> >> >> As an example, I created one for Shinji's suggestion to allow a proxy to increase the Min-SE header field value. >> >> >> https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sessiontimer-race/issues/1 >> >> [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/9333380?s=400&v=4] >> >> Proxy allowed to increase Min-SE header field value · Issue #1 · cdh4u/draft-sessiontimer-race >> github.com >> BACKGROUND: Section 8.1 of RFC 4028 says: "A proxy MUST NOT insert a Min-SE header field or modify the value of an existing header field in a proxied request if that request contains a Support... >> >> >> >> >> >> (As always, any formal decision whether to modify something will be made on the list) >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> Christer >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg >> Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2018 2:43 PM >> To: Roman Shpount >> Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE >> Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> Sorry, I read your first e-mail wrong: I thought you said that the proxy would DECREASE Min-SE. But, now I see that you talk about INCREASE 😊 >> >> >> I see no reason why a proxy couldn't increase Min-SE. >> >> >> As we have learned, the main users of session timer are proxies, not UAs, so a UA should not care if the minimum value is increased. >> >>> Technically speaking UA still care about how often they need to generate refresh since this can result in extra load on the UA. >> Sure, but increasing the Min-SE value will not result in extra load - on the contrary it may reduce load :) >> >>> When session timer is negotiated, S-E specifies the max acceptable value and Min-SE specifies min acceptable value, so proxy should be able to increase Min-SE and decrease SE. >> Correct. >> >> Regards, >> >> Christer >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > From nobody Sat Oct 6 12:21:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 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b=FVAIBoYYlz8mswIfKEUtgnIUiG63cFKePfntOrhLN2PF/hiWhaUw9ZXSw9UzQP7p0lzmmbvXJkJkB0ZRvR+PnytOCQYkb6RMXOA4ZHtCzSGskX5WFUIFWFDkRemsq1+boqtzDQYKVWFIMrHGPO1BSI05GeufTijwSQ9SpSySBJo= Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.57.157) by VI1PR07MB1310.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.164.92.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1228.10; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 19:20:52 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221]) by VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221%6]) with mapi id 15.20.1228.011; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 19:20:52 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE CC: "roland.jesske@web.de" , Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value Thread-Index: AQHUW7KTZY0yCStFJky+6E3IbpxugqUOtPyHgAAXX4CAAAXZfIAAIU0AgAADZmKAAAZF5oAAFacAgAAA6lGAAsd+AIAAwEAz Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2018 19:20:52 +0000 Message-ID: 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[209.85.215.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p17-v6sm29950691pfk.186.2018.10.06.15.32.04 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Oct 2018 15:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f170.google.com with SMTP id f18-v6so6232955pgv.3 for ; Sat, 06 Oct 2018 15:32:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:1752:: with SMTP id 18-v6mr15774859pgx.131.1538865123958; Sat, 06 Oct 2018 15:32:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5eaf2341-dc1f-4241-b0e4-99ad1737d753@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2018 18:31:54 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , roland.jesske@web.de Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000122813057796f58d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 22:32:09 -0000 --000000000000122813057796f58d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 3:20 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > I don't think the UAS should decrease S-E. Again, the mechanism is mostly > useful for proxies, so they should be able to decide. > > > Of course, if the UAS think the S-E value is too LOW, it should reject the > request. But, I see no reason why a UAS should decrease the value. > Some UA are one side of B2BUA which they act almost as proxies which do some, not allowed for proxies header modifications. Such B2BUA do use session timer for state maintenance. So, there are valid reasons for UA to state and to decrease the S-E expires value. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000122813057796f58d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 3:20 PM Christer Holmberg &= lt;christer.holmberg@eric= sson.com> wrote:

I = don't think the UAS should decrease S-E. Again, the mechanism is mostly= useful for proxies, so they should be able to decide.


Of course, if the UAS think the S= -E value is too LOW, it should reject the request. But, I see no reason why= a UAS should decrease the value.

=C2=A0
Some UA are one side of B2BUA which they act almost as proxies whi= ch do some, not allowed for proxies header modifications. Such B2BUA do use= session timer for state maintenance. So, there are valid reasons for UA to= state and to decrease the S-E expires value.

Rega= rds,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
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Sun, 7 Oct 2018 19:18:59 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , "roland.jesske@web.de" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value Thread-Index: AQHUW7KTZY0yCStFJky+6E3IbpxugqUOtPyHgAAXX4CAAAXZfIAAIU0AgAADZmKAAAZF5oAAFacAgAAA6lGAAsd+AIAAwEAzgAA14wCAAVwsMw== Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2018 19:18:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5eaf2341-dc1f-4241-b0e4-99ad1737d753@email.android.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [37.33.70.94] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB7PR07MB5308; 6:YTt1KTj0fhJkJddgwmAUXWXEojdNFDIzEk5ThFRXsiHymjnVbN5/XUpUZyU6EkWPG7FHrwV3laAvgcUv8VH80qJY/Yc3IywIzncynx1b8aNRyrAdX8t+qAFN2/Q1uUrL/lXKWrzHeYnHZblVLGBgDPCTBHOBSXeTXfxzvdU9sQYZ1KnlOhVr4cPIu9N7/MecC/aJJBzCD2gpIls1qE6iJ0q5lv1bEDm55aY5Af/pgeLOzJOin6iJwx01SwcJb8zG0XF56Ophbz46r099dVRplAVChpu+14Uv3HzIyUp3Sod9CfaDlnagQlP7Vb11wd40eVamNwW+izVY7JzSWj+W7GDoH7+M6V+CvPrazsbsZzH4NL4jaiPyn2AH1UUaUJrYszvpLYy454uX1FVc4UcxfCo9HckkL8immSAfRu4xp2D5NhVIV8Dkrk+FndVLWRRbq8CGmiEgYVV6cR2jR2mSAA==; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB7PR07MB5308; H:DB7PR07MB4780.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: yM2gyTZvInQR0vVxZvUxwovHypFl3ejclikv0lKHnzu300s78Pkr7buHteMa9y0M11rgEfrLXOfp/esr8oDgq3JgQR1FWmywYMDCmT1hKNVt040we+LLj0haLP9U9WYIELTDKyGwlgq6HH9/WQXUtQ4ZiIQfV6gqorXYltG8jjIeXtFgpFNGsrAK66BYCxZR6UmvgwOJadXG4NPqMOT5ejWpwK9YX8QU+heAschjaMyAns9brqJrLET1btzdpzq2jtJ2NsVcLpL5JrHf+nBTddYH6A84om+/sxF2i30xd49PGwL9L8sroXctLsUVIJolgx2UksCJHzK8/9ee4h77g59MPu+bMfri6RhuuTq3A8c= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB7PR07MB4780A65D3D8F7653FEBC706D93E50DB7PR07MB4780eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 68468dad-3a05-49db-7882-08d62c89bbb9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Oct 2018 19:18:58.9438 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB5308 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Sa0hTYRjHec85bkdxdlrqHoy0pn1IcZoWLhGpiJqGlEE3FXLkybuuHVte qPxg5CVL0eGFxEsjdIgs8Z7XeQkjy/ogZWqZlqhlmU0zceT2LvDb7/9/nvf9P8/LS5PCTisn OjYphVUmyRPEPBuq7FJrhqdbREe4d36tRKp5WM+T1um+IWnpqJqUGv408o5SsvbySb5Mo1kn ZOPFCtmHry3UWSrMJiCKTYhVsUqvwEibmLxNI6EocU1trhkkMlGRcy6ypoE5BJMjOiIX2dBC ZhBBU0WDRRgQ/K3uRVg8JmBhUW0WFFNAwlD2qqVSSMAXw1OL+Ijg7tDU1gU0zWOkkGf0MIXY M/thc62IMDHJ3ISVGa2ZdzEnob53gMA9p2Bs9T6J+TZ06+8hE1OMG7S9H+WZWMBEwPpEN4mz mknYMD4yH7ZmQqE/J8fMiHGEtRf1ljARjM9WEnhTBjSdr0nMDjA/Y7TC/XLo0X6y+C5Qp1mh MO+Bt5V5CHM3H3LW92H2hJ9qtaU/BHRvpvimgYB5juBVu5aPC+6gfjnNwxwPK60/+KZHga0N lrvSsO0M2vxpqgB5l28bFXMy1PQ/45Wbd94Jw2WzFPYl8E5dzMPsAU+qF0nMnlBq1FPb/SrE 1yIHjuW4xGgfHwmrjL3KcclJkiQ2pRFt/am+pg3/NtQ3d0yPGBqJbQXLpzvChVZyFZeWqEdA k2J7wa9z7eFCQZQ8LZ1VJl9R3khgOT3aTVNikeD4NWmYkImWp7DxLKtglf+rBG3tlImcq7pn VeftkjcaDSXeA6GOLUs7gn1HRLJlcU+NX2Fx5BGXrgVdbvaZ3EC7gROFn9nKOyGF3zN0ARkH Yi4LioZ9pBezNHRWcFCCVX5DxUTzHPGAnz4zMebX7OffqRIrqQuK366CWtcK/7g4xnZetHQ4 WsS6XvetUt3aa/QKSpWIKS5GftCdVHLyfxDASrZPAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2018 19:19:05 -0000 --_000_DB7PR07MB4780A65D3D8F7653FEBC706D93E50DB7PR07MB4780eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fair enough, but I still think it would be good to have text saying that a = UAS should not decrease the value unless it has a really good reason for do= ing so. Regards, Christer ________________________________ From: Roman Shpount Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 1:31 AM To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE; roland.jesske@web.de Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 3:20 PM Christer Holmberg > wrote: I don't think the UAS should decrease S-E. Again, the mechanism is mostly u= seful for proxies, so they should be able to decide. Of course, if the UAS think the S-E value is too LOW, it should reject the = request. But, I see no reason why a UAS should decrease the value. Some UA are one side of B2BUA which they act almost as proxies which do som= e, not allowed for proxies header modifications. Such B2BUA do use session = timer for state maintenance. So, there are valid reasons for UA to state an= d to decrease the S-E expires value. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --_000_DB7PR07MB4780A65D3D8F7653FEBC706D93E50DB7PR07MB4780eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Fair enough, but I still think it would be good to have text saying th= at a UAS should not decrease the value unless it has a really good reason f= or doing so.

Regards,

Christer

From: Roman Shpount <rom= an@telurix.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 1:31 AM
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE; roland.jesske@web.de
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable val= ue
 
On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 3:20 PM= Christer Holmberg <christer.hol= mberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

I= don't think the UAS should decrease S-E. Again, the mechanism is mostly us= eful for proxies, so they should be able to decide.


Of course, if the UAS think the = S-E value is too LOW, it should reject the request. But, I see no reason wh= y a UAS should decrease the value.

 
Some UA are one side of B2BUA which they act almost as proxies which d= o some, not allowed for proxies header modifications. Such B2BUA do use ses= sion timer for state maintenance. So, there are valid reasons for UA to sta= te and to decrease the S-E expires value.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
 
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[209.85.215.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o7-v6sm14494125pgq.14.2018.10.07.14.03.39 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Oct 2018 14:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f172.google.com with SMTP id n31-v6so6899852pgm.7 for ; Sun, 07 Oct 2018 14:03:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:2e47:: with SMTP id u68-v6mr18894035pgu.294.1538946219453; Sun, 07 Oct 2018 14:03:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5eaf2341-dc1f-4241-b0e4-99ad1737d753@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2018 23:03:27 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE , "roland.jesske@web.de" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bd52580577a9d6b2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2018 21:03:44 -0000 --000000000000bd52580577a9d6b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" None of the elements including UA and Proxies should reduce SE refresh interval without a good reason. Perhaps we should add language that all elements should keep SE refresh value as large as possible to avoid network overload. Roman Shpount On Sun, Oct 7, 2018, 9:19 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > Fair enough, but I still think it would be good to have text saying that a > UAS should not decrease the value unless it has a really good reason for > doing so. > > Regards, > > Christer > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Roman Shpount > *Sent:* Sunday, October 7, 2018 1:31 AM > *To:* Christer Holmberg > *Cc:* OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE; roland.jesske@web.de > *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable value > > On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 3:20 PM Christer Holmberg < > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > I don't think the UAS should decrease S-E. Again, the mechanism is mostly > useful for proxies, so they should be able to decide. > > > Of course, if the UAS think the S-E value is too LOW, it should reject the > request. But, I see no reason why a UAS should decrease the value. > > > Some UA are one side of B2BUA which they act almost as proxies which do > some, not allowed for proxies header modifications. Such B2BUA do use > session timer for state maintenance. So, there are valid reasons for UA to > state and to decrease the S-E expires value. > > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > --000000000000bd52580577a9d6b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
None of the elements including UA and Proxies should redu= ce SE refresh interval without a good reason. Perhaps we should add languag= e that all elements should keep SE refresh value as large as possible to av= oid network overload.

Roman = Shpount

On Sun, = Oct 7, 2018, 9:19 PM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:


Fair enough, but I still think it would be good to have text saying th= at a UAS should not decrease the value unless it has a really good reason f= or doing so.

Regards,

Christer

From: = Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 1:31 AM
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: OKUMURA Shinji; SIPCORE; roland.jesske@web.de
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Result below an acceptable val= ue
=C2=A0
On Sat, O= ct 6, 2018 at 3:20 PM Christer Holmberg <christer.ho= lmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

I = don't think the UAS should decrease S-E. Again, the mechanism is mostly= useful for proxies, so they should be able to decide.


Of course, if the UAS think the S= -E value is too LOW, it should reject the request. But, I see no reason why= a UAS should decrease the value.

=C2=A0
Some UA are one side of B2BUA which they act almost as proxies which d= o some, not allowed for proxies header modifications. Such B2BUA do use ses= sion timer for state maintenance. So, there are valid reasons for UA to sta= te and to decrease the S-E expires value.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--000000000000bd52580577a9d6b2-- From nobody Mon Oct 8 06:16:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1906130EA4 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 06:16:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uptA-QBWhLlc for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 06:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A9CB130EC1 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 06:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutabilis-2.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w98DGbPL040145 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 08:16:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mahoney@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be mutabilis-2.local To: SIPCORE From: "A. Jean Mahoney" Message-ID: <1ccdc157-e999-85a7-ac83-e20d013e178e@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 08:16:46 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] 2nd WGLC: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 13:16:48 -0000 Hi all, Since there have been substantive changes made to the sip-push draft since the conclusion of its first WGLC (the feedback of which was incorporated into version -11), this is a second WGLC. Please provide feedback on the changes and features added since version -11 by Friday, October 12. For those who have provided input since -11, please let us know if your feedback has been addressed. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ Thanks! Jean From nobody Mon Oct 8 12:45:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED731311F2 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 12:45:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XONr163xjTyq for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu [18.7.68.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE4B131093 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 12:45:28 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074414-9bdff70000000bb6-23-5bbbb3d79f52 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 32.AB.02998.7D3BBBB5; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 15:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w98JjQj1007920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 15:45:27 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <1ccdc157-e999-85a7-ac83-e20d013e178e@nostrum.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 15:45:26 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1ccdc157-e999-85a7-ac83-e20d013e178e@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqHt98+5og86VqhZff2xic2D0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxofuJ2wFnfwVD6d1szQwPuXuYuTkkBAwkWh5vpe9i5GLQ0hg B5PE5hmL2SCc70wSc/59YAapEhawl1h3/zEriC0iICLxbPo/NhBbSMBO4sO8RUwgNpuAlsSc Q/9ZQGxeoPq3P+6D1bMIqEjsPNnADmKLCqRJ/O1cwghRIyhxcuYTsHpOoPpZZ/+CzWEWMJOY t/khM4QtLnHryXyouLzE9rdzmCcw8s9C0j4LScssJC2zkLQsYGRZxSiXmFOaq5ubmJlTnJqs W5ycmJeXWqRroZebWaKXmlK6iRESliI7GI+clDvEKMDBqMTD+6Fgd7QQa2JZcWXuIUZJDiYl Ud4/uUAhvqT8lMqMxOKM+KLSnNTiQ4wSHMxKIryi23dFC/GmJFZWpRblw6SkOViUxHmZTfZG CQmkJ5akZqemFqQWwWRlODiUJHhfbAIaKliUmp5akZaZU4KQZuLgBBnOAzT8JEgNb3FBYm5x ZjpE/hSjJceer00zmDm2nekEkm1Pr89gFmLJy89LlRLn3QrSIADSkFGaBzcTlmZeMYoDvSjM OwukigeYouCmvgJayAS08HfCDpCFJYkIKakGxvwtnHv8PaSYJIziXFveLUzh23iJe9nm/D+t Dma8M72j451vtqjodHqtWSWmcD0qaGJGrTz7z3PrrKy5j6nscW3YY+mlP2mD+1uni3w/crX6 0z3PP/Rye5C6rOXN7b3hAidutlRyHYq4c+j9lzVM4pNa18upT8zJnbP80Oa0zDWdtpyPeu2O KrEUZyQaajEXFScCAEqAw6sOAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] 2nd WGLC: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 19:45:40 -0000 On 10/8/18 9:16 AM, A. Jean Mahoney wrote: > Hi all, > > Since there have been substantive changes made to the sip-push draft > since the conclusion of its first WGLC (the feedback of which was > incorporated into version -11), this is a second WGLC. > > Please provide feedback on the changes and features added since version > -11 by Friday, October 12. For those who have provided input since -11, > please let us know if your feedback has been addressed. I haven't reviewed this doc in a long time, so this query prompted me to do so. Generally looks good. Here are things I noted: * Section 8 Could you please define abnf names referenced from other documents using the NAME = <...> syntax to ease verification? * Section 10 The example is wrong: Example: pn-provider = apns should be: Example: pn-provider = "apns" * Section 5.3.1 (and elsewhere) There seems to be an assumption baked in that all the contacts in the register request are for the device sending the request. While that is the common case, it isn't necessarily the case. IIUC it isn't necessary to make any such assumption. Rather, all the state that is being managed should be associated to each contact in the register request. (In principle those contacts can even have different expiration times.) It then becomes an optimization to send one notification for multiple contacts that happen to expire at the same time and have the same PRID. (Note that when there are multiple contacts in a register request the registrar doesn't know if those contacts identify multiple paths to a single UA or to distinct UAs.) ISTM that there needs to be some text addressing this. Either sorting out how it works, or limiting usage of this mechanism to cases where all the contacts being registered are paths to a single UA and have a single expiration time. 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paul, Please see inline. >* Section 8 > >Could you please define abnf names referenced from other documents >using >the NAME =3D <...> syntax to ease verification? I will fix as suggested. (I assume this is the same comment you had in BFCPbis) ----- >* Section 10 > >The example is wrong: > > Example: pn-provider =3D apns > > should be: > > Example: pn-provider =3D "apns" The syntax for pn-provider is: pn-provider =3D "pn-provider" EQUAL pvalue ...and the syntax for pvalue is: pvalue =3D 1*paramchar ----- >* Section 5.3.1 (and elsewhere) > >There seems to be an assumption baked in that all the contacts in the >register request are for the device sending the request. While that is >the common case, it isn't necessarily the case. > >IIUC it isn't necessary to make any such assumption. Rather, all the >state that is being managed should be associated to each contact in the >register request. (In principle those contacts can even have different >expiration times.) It then becomes an optimization to send one >notification for multiple contacts that happen to expire at the same >time and have the same PRID. > >(Note that when there are multiple contacts in a register request the >registrar doesn't know if those contacts identify multiple paths to a >single UA or to distinct UAs.) > >ISTM that there needs to be some text addressing this. Either sorting >out how it works, or limiting usage of this mechanism to cases where all >the contacts being registered are paths to a single UA and have a single >expiration time. My suggestion is to limit the usage to cases where all the contacts are ass= ociated with a single UA, as multiple UAs won't share the same PRID. Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB47823FEF5AED91088494AF5793E70VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Paul,


Please see inline.


>* Section 8
>
>Could you please define abnf names referenced from other documents >= using
>the NAME =3D <...> syntax to ease verification?

I will fix as suggested.

(I assume this is the same comment you had in BFCPbis)

-----

>* Section 10
>
>The example is wrong:
>
>   Example: pn-provider =3D apns
>
> should be:
>
>   Example: pn-provider =3D "apns"

The syntax for pn-provider is:

          pn-provid= er     =3D "pn-provider" EQUAL pvalue<= /div>

...and the syntax for pvalue is:

         pvalue&nbs= p;           =3D  1*= paramchar

-----

>* Section 5.3.1 (and elsewhere)
>
>There seems to be an assumption baked in that all the contacts in the <= br> >register request are for the device sending the request. While that is =
>the common case, it isn't necessarily the case.
>
>IIUC it isn't necessary to make any such assumption. Rather, all the >state that is being managed should be associated to each contact in the=
>register request. (In principle those contacts can even have different =
>expiration times.) It then becomes an optimization to send one
>notification for multiple contacts that happen to expire at the same >time and have the same PRID.
>
>(Note that when there are multiple contacts in a register request the <= br> >registrar doesn't know if those contacts identify multiple paths to a <= br> >single UA or to distinct UAs.)
>
>ISTM that there needs to be some text addressing this. Either sorting <= br> >out how it works, or limiting usage of this mechanism to cases where al= l
>the contacts being registered are paths to a single UA and have a singl= e
>expiration time.

My suggestion is to limit the usage to cases where all the contacts are ass= ociated with a single UA, as multiple UAs won't share the same PRID.

Regards,

Christer

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, ... >>* Section 5.3.1 (and elsewhere) >> >>There seems to be an assumption baked in that all the contacts in the >>register request are for the device sending the request. While that is >>the common case, it isn't necessarily the case. >> >>IIUC it isn't necessary to make any such assumption. Rather, all the >>state that is being managed should be associated to each contact in the >>register request. (In principle those contacts can even have different >>expiration times.) It then becomes an optimization to send one >>notification for multiple contacts that happen to expire at the same >>time and have the same PRID. >> >>(Note that when there are multiple contacts in a register request the >>registrar doesn't know if those contacts identify multiple paths to a >>single UA or to distinct UAs.) >> >>ISTM that there needs to be some text addressing this. Either sorting >>out how it works, or limiting usage of this mechanism to cases where all >>the contacts being registered are paths to a single UA and have a single >>expiration time. > > My suggestion is to limit the usage to cases where all the contacts are a= ssociated with a single UA, as multiple UAs won't share the same PRID. I was looking at the draft, and I am not sure whether we need to add anythi= ng. The proxy text already talks about requesting push notifications for bi= ndings. Also, as far as the push mechanism is concerned, I don't think we need for = forbid registering bindings for other UAs. In reality I don't think it will= be used, though. Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB47827D56DD47E72FB0D2443F93E70VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


...


>>* Section 5.3.1 (and elsewhere)
>>
>>There seems to be an assumption baked in that all the contacts in t= he
>>register request are for the device sending the request. While that= is
>>the common case, it isn't necessarily the case.
>>
>>IIUC it isn't necessary to make any such assumption. Rather, all th= e
>>state that is being managed should be associated to each contact in= the
>>register request. (In principle those contacts can even have differ= ent
>>expiration times.) It then becomes an optimization to send one
>>notification for multiple contacts that happen to expire at the sam= e
>>time and have the same PRID.
>>
>>(Note that when there are multiple contacts in a register request t= he
>>registrar doesn't know if those contacts identify multiple paths to= a
>>single UA or to distinct UAs.)
>>
>>ISTM that there needs to be some text addressing this. Either sorti= ng
>>out how it works, or limiting usage of this mechanism to cases wher= e all
>>the contacts being registered are paths to a single UA and have a s= ingle
>>expiration time.
>
> My suggestion is to limit the usage to cases where all the contac= ts are associated with a single UA, as multiple UAs won't share the same PR= ID.

I was looking at the draft, and I am not sure wh= ether we need to add anything. The proxy text already talks about requestin= g push notifications for bindings. 

Also, as far as the push mechanism is concerned,= I don't think we need for forbid registering bindings for other UAs. In re= ality I don't think it will be used, though.

Regards,

Christer


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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/27 ________________________________ From: sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 12:33 PM To: Paul Kyzivat; sipcore@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sipcore] 2nd WGLC: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18 Hi, ... >>* Section 5.3.1 (and elsewhere) >> >>There seems to be an assumption baked in that all the contacts in the >>register request are for the device sending the request. While that is >>the common case, it isn't necessarily the case. >> >>IIUC it isn't necessary to make any such assumption. Rather, all the >>state that is being managed should be associated to each contact in the >>register request. (In principle those contacts can even have different >>expiration times.) It then becomes an optimization to send one >>notification for multiple contacts that happen to expire at the same >>time and have the same PRID. >> >>(Note that when there are multiple contacts in a register request the >>registrar doesn't know if those contacts identify multiple paths to a >>single UA or to distinct UAs.) >> >>ISTM that there needs to be some text addressing this. Either sorting >>out how it works, or limiting usage of this mechanism to cases where all >>the contacts being registered are paths to a single UA and have a single >>expiration time. > > My suggestion is to limit the usage to cases where all the contacts are a= ssociated with a single UA, as multiple UAs won't share the same PRID. I was looking at the draft, and I am not sure whether we need to add anythi= ng. The proxy text already talks about requesting push notifications for bi= ndings. Also, as far as the push mechanism is concerned, I don't think we need for = forbid registering bindings for other UAs. In reality I don't think it will= be used, though. Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB4782BD072F62EEE512B2194693E70VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/27


From: sipcore <sipcore-b= ounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@er= icsson.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 12:33 PM
To: Paul Kyzivat; sipcore@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sipcore] 2nd WGLC: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18
 

Hi,


...


>>* Section 5.3.1 (and elsewhere)
>>
>>There seems to be an assumption baked in that all the contacts in t= he
>>register request are for the device sending the request. While that= is
>>the common case, it isn't necessarily the case.
>>
>>IIUC it isn't necessary to make any such assumption. Rather, all th= e
>>state that is being managed should be associated to each contact in= the
>>register request. (In principle those contacts can even have differ= ent
>>expiration times.) It then becomes an optimization to send one
>>notification for multiple contacts that happen to expire at the sam= e
>>time and have the same PRID.
>>
>>(Note that when there are multiple contacts in a register request t= he
>>registrar doesn't know if those contacts identify multiple paths to= a
>>single UA or to distinct UAs.)
>>
>>ISTM that there needs to be some text addressing this. Either sorti= ng
>>out how it works, or limiting usage of this mechanism to cases wher= e all
>>the contacts being registered are paths to a single UA and have a s= ingle
>>expiration time.
>
> My suggestion is to limit the usage to cases where all the contac= ts are associated with a single UA, as multiple UAs won't share the same PR= ID.

I was looking at the draft, and I am not sure = whether we need to add anything. The proxy text already talks about request= ing push notifications for bindings. 

Also, as far as the push mechanism is concerne= d, I don't think we need for forbid registering bindings for other UAs. In = reality I don't think it will be used, though.

Regards,

Christer


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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have tried to draft updated proxy procedures regarding session-timer. Note that there will also be UA procedures. Regards, Christer --- X.2. PROXY BEHAVIOR: X.2.1. Receiving request: - If the proxy receives a request with a S-E interval that it considers too= low, the proxy SHOULD reject the request with a 422 response. - If the proxy receives a request without a S-E header field, it SHOULD ins= ert a S-E header field. If the proxy has previously inserted or forwarded a= S-E header field within the dialog, it SHOULD insert the same S-E header f= ield value in the request. - The proxy MAY insert a Min-SE header field in the request, or increase th= e value of an existing Min-SE header field. X.2.2. Receiving response: - If the proxy receives a response without a S-E, and the proxy remembers t= hat the request indicated support of the session timer, the proxy MUST inse= rt a S-E header field. The proxy MUST set the refresher parameter value to = "uac". - If the proxy receives a response without a S-E, and the proxy remembers t= hat the request did not indicate support of the session timer, the proxy fo= rwards the response. No session timer will be negotiated. - If the proxy receives a response with a S-E, the proxy forwards the respo= nse. The proxy MUST NOT modify the S-E header field. --- --_000_DB7PR07MB4780CB457EC2DF53F355D62593E60DB7PR07MB4780eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


I have tried to draft updated pr= oxy procedures regarding session-timer.


Note that there will also be UA = procedures.


Regards,


Christer


---


X.2. PROXY BEHAVIOR:


X.2.1. Receiving request:


- If the proxy receives a r= equest with a S-E interval that it considers too low, the proxy SHOULD reje= ct the request with a 422 response.


- If the proxy receives a r= equest without a S-E header field, it SHOULD insert a S-E header field. If = the proxy has previously inserted or forwarded a S-E header field within th= e dialog, it SHOULD insert the same S-E header field value in the request.


- The proxy MAY insert a Mi= n-SE header field in the request, or increase the value of an existing Min-= SE header field.



X.2.2. Receiving response:


- If the proxy receives a r= esponse without a S-E, and the proxy remembers that the request indicated s= upport of the session timer, the proxy MUST insert a S-E header field. The = proxy MUST set the refresher parameter value to "uac". 


- If the proxy receives a r= esponse without a S-E, and the proxy remembers that the request did not ind= icate support of the session timer, the proxy forwards the response. No ses= sion timer will be negotiated.


- If the proxy receives a r= esponse with a S-E, the proxy forwards the response. The proxy MUST NOT mod= ify the S-E header field.


---



--_000_DB7PR07MB4780CB457EC2DF53F355D62593E60DB7PR07MB4780eurp_-- From nobody Tue Oct 9 08:43:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7141A13134A for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:42:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZSgi7W1YBEks for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu [18.7.68.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B868F131342 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:42:56 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074412-1bfff70000000c6c-4e-5bbccc7dabee Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id C1.18.03180.D7CCCBB5; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w99Fgqal008573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:42:53 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <1ccdc157-e999-85a7-ac83-e20d013e178e@nostrum.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <3163b24c-6b90-548c-14cb-ebf7e47f16d7@alum.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:42:52 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmplleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IRYndR1K07syfaoHEmk8WFmYcZLb7+2MTm wOTx6+tVNo8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGW8W/OWraBFsOLZ3dmMDYyLeLsYOTkkBEwk Lm/Yw9LFyMUhJLCDSaL37A1mCOcBk8SD589ZQKqEBewl1t1/zApiiwikSfRM7GeHKDrOKDHj 4jMmkASbgJbEnEP/wRp4gRpe3l3IDGKzCKhIzDn+mw3EFgVq/tu5hBGiRlDi5MwnQPUcHJwC sRJf7miDhJkFbCXuzN3NDGGLS9x6Mp8JwpaXaN46m3kCI/8sJN2zkLTMQtIyC0nLAkaWVYxy iTmlubq5iZk5xanJusXJiXl5qUW6Znq5mSV6qSmlmxghoSq0g3H9SblDjAIcjEo8vB8KdkcL sSaWFVfmHmKU5GBSEuVNYN8TLcSXlJ9SmZFYnBFfVJqTWnyIUYKDWUmEV3T7rmgh3pTEyqrU onyYlDQHi5I4L7PJ3ighgfTEktTs1NSC1CKYrAwHh5IErwQwJoUEi1LTUyvSMnNKENJMHJwg w3mAhsuC1PAWFyTmFmemQ+RPMVpy7PnaNIOZY9uZTiDZ9vT6DGYhlrz8vFQpcd4tp4EaBEAa Mkrz4GbCUs8rRnGgF4V5z50CquIBpi24qa+AFjIBLTwVArawJBEhJdXA6NT2Vs9pK8P140qt HXp5azItLpdGhH16t0t6/0X3VZ75TWJaGg7ujMEP//VXFXK61uR6XYxTmOPinHn5BWP2gxp9 XbaFgQkvzrbKm7764rC0nNkh+szaVx/Mgl7M21ypvV0+ibXGsNPMIegOp7mU0rObajsiGAJv BHz8Z8TDdvflL/7oywFKLMUZiYZazEXFiQDHmEhsGAMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] 2nd WGLC: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 15:42:58 -0000 On 10/9/18 3:31 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi Paul, > > > Please see inline. > > >>* Section 8 >> >>Could you please define abnf names referenced from other documents >using >>the NAME = <...> syntax to ease verification? > > I will fix as suggested. > > (I assume this is the same comment you had in BFCPbis) Yup! >>* Section 10 >> >>The example is wrong: >> >> Example: pn-provider = apns >> >>should be: >> >> Example: pn-provider = "apns" > > The syntax for pn-provider is: > > pn-provider = "pn-provider" EQUAL pvalue > > ...and the syntax for pvalue is: > > pvalue = 1*paramchar Sorry, my mistake. I mixed it up with pns-list. >>* Section 5.3.1 (and elsewhere) >> >>There seems to be an assumption baked in that all the contacts in the >>register request are for the device sending the request. While that is >>the common case, it isn't necessarily the case. >> >>IIUC it isn't necessary to make any such assumption. Rather, all the >>state that is being managed should be associated to each contact in the >>register request. (In principle those contacts can even have different >>expiration times.) It then becomes an optimization to send one >>notification for multiple contacts that happen to expire at the same >>time and have the same PRID. >> >>(Note that when there are multiple contacts in a register request the >>registrar doesn't know if those contacts identify multiple paths to a >>single UA or to distinct UAs.) >> >>ISTM that there needs to be some text addressing this. Either sorting >>out how it works, or limiting usage of this mechanism to cases where all >>the contacts being registered are paths to a single UA and have a single >>expiration time. > > My suggestion is to limit the usage to cases where all the contacts are > associated with a single UA, as multiple UAs won't share the same PRID. I'd be happy with this. What about the case where there are multiple contacts for the same UA but with different expiration times? (I'm stretching here - I can't think of a reason why.) Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Oct 9 08:54:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46FEE131355 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:54:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h5M9ZzM7Ec2r for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu [18.7.68.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89D713135E for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:54:50 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074411-df1ff70000000b07-dc-5bbccf4941d5 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 26.25.02823.94FCCBB5; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w99Fsmju009257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:54:49 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <797ef8f5-5ce6-b67b-5108-8471a79fe035@alum.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:54:48 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrMIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqOt5fk+0wdk5NhZff2xic2D0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXRndjRMFm3opTDafZGhincHUxcnJICJhIXL1ynLWLkYtDSGAH k8TTNxvZIJzvTBKPjnxnA6kSBqpafPIRmC0iICLxbPo/IJsDqChGYtYKd5Awm4CWxJxD/1lA bF4Be4kH3+6D2SwCKhL31s0Ds0UF0iT+di5hhKgRlDg58wlYnFMgVmJvWwtYnFnAVuLO3N3M ELa4xK0n85kgbHmJ5q2zmScw8s9C0j4LScssJC2zkLQsYGRZxSiXmFOaq5ubmJlTnJqsW5yc mJeXWqRrqpebWaKXmlK6iRESkoI7GGeclDvEKMDBqMTD+6Fgd7QQa2JZcWXuIUZJDiYlUd4E 9j3RQnxJ+SmVGYnFGfFFpTmpxYcYJTiYlUR4RbfvihbiTUmsrEotyodJSXOwKInzMpvsjRIS SE8sSc1OTS1ILYLJynBwKEnw5p8DGipYlJqeWpGWmVOCkGbi4AQZzgM0vP0sUA1vcUFibnFm OkT+FKMxx56vTTOYOdqeXp/BLMSSl5+XKiXO+xOkVACkNKM0D24aLK28YhQHek6YNxZkKQ8w JcHNewW0iglo1akQsFUliQgpqQbGsr/qe5x0V+7jnPvB+N7tJauTHNO7OJ0S0oT/9H85dqfh RfiExV+PNOoVdNfrpOSuvGO8PvW8PvPPs34xEpM7dXauWyWVN3Xbq7gl5lMjf3CLy7hVm/dO VFbM/Hwk9JRvsUrBS02hhSEVb5fqGXMxWsZrpNgH+TIHrqkQdJz0SEjxs7pe4TolluKMREMt 5qLiRAAiS9q7BgMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Proxy behavior X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 15:54:53 -0000 On 10/9/18 6:19 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > > I have tried to draft updated proxy procedures regarding session-timer. > > > Note that there will also be UA procedures. > > > Regards, > > > Christer > > > --- > > > X.2. PROXY BEHAVIOR: > > > X.2.1.Receiving request: > > > -If the proxy receives a request with a S-E interval that it considers > too low, the proxy SHOULD reject the request with a 422 response. > > > -If the proxy receives a request without a S-E header field, it SHOULD > insert a S-E header field. If the proxy has previously inserted or > forwarded a S-E header field within the dialog, it SHOULD insert the > same S-E header field value in the request. > > > -The proxy MAY insert a Min-SE header field in the request, or increase > the value of an existing Min-SE header field. I've lost track of what this is about. Is this intending to differ from section 8.1 of RFC4028? > X.2.2. Receiving response: > > > -If the proxy receives a response without a S-E, and the proxy > remembers that the request indicated support of the session timer, the > proxy MUST insert a S-E header field. The proxy MUST set the refresher > parameter value to "uac". > > > -If the proxy receives a response without a S-E, and the proxy > remembers that the request did not indicate support of the session > timer, the proxy forwards the response. No session timer will be negotiated. > > > -If the proxy receives a response with a S-E, the proxy forwards the > response. The proxy MUST NOT modify the S-E header field. And is this intending to differ from section 8.2 of 4028? 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y185-v6sm23354342pgd.8.2018.10.09.20.02.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 09 Oct 2018 20:02:21 -0700 (PDT) To: SIPCORE From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: <6f0950a1-a8e1-33b6-9771-48d5716020fc@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:02:18 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181009-4, 2018/10/09), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Session-timer: Min-SE in 2xx X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 03:02:25 -0000 Hi, According to the current RFC, only the UAS knows the maximum Min-SEC fina= lly determined. In order to advertise this information to proxies and the UAC, I think th= at the UAS may copy the Min-SE from the 2xx response request. Regards, Shinji From nobody Tue Oct 9 21:54:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C69F130E78 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Baf9O6dlSip for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 21:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu [18.7.68.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED62130E77 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 21:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440f-791ff70000000b27-03-5bbd85ee8631 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id ED.C8.02855.FE58DBB5; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 00:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9A4s50G021790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 00:54:06 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <6f0950a1-a8e1-33b6-9771-48d5716020fc@gmail.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <49996421-2553-dab1-1e47-ad52708aaf5e@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 00:54:05 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6f0950a1-a8e1-33b6-9771-48d5716020fc@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrPIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqPuhdW+0wbk/EhZff2xic2D0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxpb/H1gKljJXTOnfwNTAeIKpi5GTQ0LARGLx4dPMXYxcHEIC O5gktk09AuX8YJJY2dXADlIlLGAscaH1JJgtIiAi8Wz6PzYQW0jARuL3pv1gcTYBLYk5h/6z gNi8AvYSq3ecA9vAIqAqcfrjYWYQW1QgTeJv5xJGiBpBiZMzn4DVcwrYSrxv3ghWwyxgJjFv 80MoW1zi1pP5TBC2vMT2t3OYJzDyz0LSPgtJyywkLbOQtCxgZFnFKJeYU5qrm5uYmVOcmqxb nJyYl5dapGuil5tZopeaUrqJERKW/DsYu9bLHGIU4GBU4uFtuLAnWog1say4MvcQoyQHk5Io b5f73mghvqT8lMqMxOKM+KLSnNTiQ4wSHMxKIry7HwKV86YkVlalFuXDpKQ5WJTEeVlN9kYJ CaQnlqRmp6YWpBbBZGU4OJQkeMWB8SckWJSanlqRlplTgpBm4uAEGc4DNPxYC1ANb3FBYm5x ZjpE/hSjLseer00zmIVY8vLzUqXEeaNABgmAFGWU5sHNgaWTV4ziQG8J86aDVPEAUxHcpFdA S5iAlpwKAfmguCQRISXVwJgcJ2G9c0fxxj11l77kf5331sE/b8K67dJ51SbmHLoe0TGMs3VD 7qhPfn0nlfOR9i+hQ8c8M/v71bcuO3l/UjT3PysroTuHb13ds6/XLCFihlH43fd27csMFC+3 S2nOcrXjW1jCXmyox+W67pDvvOkphbKOjvIanRvVPe3Sbyx4GxgrJbyaS4mlOCPRUIu5qDgR ABf7DPkCAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Min-SE in 2xx X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 04:54:12 -0000 On 10/9/18 11:02 PM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi, > > According to the current RFC, only the UAS knows the maximum Min-SEC finally determined. > In order to advertise this information to proxies and the UAC, I think that the UAS may copy the Min-SE from the 2xx response request. Why is it necessary for the proxies and UAC to know this as long as they know the S-E that has been determined? Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Oct 9 23:11:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF8B130E62 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:11:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WPKw-2FfGKNS for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x631.google.com (mail-pl1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::631]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 694F6130E5A for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x631.google.com with SMTP id b5-v6so1995748plr.5 for ; Tue, 09 Oct 2018 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:references:cc:from:openpgp:autocrypt:subject:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=8CgNLflJu4j6iS+0nkxvYfh8dv/nIaSWR4p93i09aho=; b=j5kv8wEWkTq0HZZEDY8/MPcEG2keQJ76i7drZvpj29v/OsknsnFCQHOHXGg6cwvFxp 3XelNiItuIfQl+H2GoKXEIye+92S0yKfd+IYUSadMLmwSwNMLKPIBd54882jfHX0Xk7o Kq+GvoGA4ql6o3INvNNasEYaMatXJkRhxs7goketiWF/geEPCxoOjzlcjygDPXHO53+H 51+W/rLh5c1JzjkMa3s9Ma3psqlVqXlbDlfOiS0PGbCV7KE4Bne/+Gwb9ZrbygIv18mA L2ThCyixX+wCVWkyhKYQaLaswGdHRE6jyLqNpCiKPoGVHW/Tmgt722AWvNr2hPpyI1B9 dTpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:references:cc:from:openpgp:autocrypt:subject :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=8CgNLflJu4j6iS+0nkxvYfh8dv/nIaSWR4p93i09aho=; b=t/VcuGMszxUJmkHqnnieNlbIrbqsv6KXhqFrE235UpC04qYljYy5QTKsj4xVZJm7sp f1+YeRF8UyE4/SuWcJQWZ23u1/EOLCINvh3eKRgx5MoT4YZ+Vd7hGcTxDt6cIwAYRdSR JcCI7XjHtZd6G6IJZj8M+fiB5Aj8C3VvFhgZ1DceYfvxmGrKpbVJwaMKiaMOTlURwqMp gRoiOzSCSRqwBtNG4nigOKGddznE85VHZB4EYByOka8qUi3gWGPSJU8snIpN2SZ/Yfpv tSClTMyfv6ZfbBMRPZL6RKc9YkdAybjYvhDRkbPXZl1tfDirMCwIx01n9iwAwZ/YQ+gj U2ww== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoj5eJW4K/O4uZzUN/QBvw8HmOynJKq2viSRRNL7US/kr5Zgox4I gCnuAAYfcddtb1Wz7SgIe8M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62rFkZdfoCxFjMQNZDkCNZYfMOyahi1wLuqyh7vMzd0oON2KuPc77by73B3gNIiBudWbtvWMQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b182:: with SMTP id s2-v6mr31633804plr.84.1539151902770; Tue, 09 Oct 2018 23:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.126] (x156176.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp. [122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b19-v6sm27959257pfo.50.2018.10.09.23.11.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 09 Oct 2018 23:11:42 -0700 (PDT) To: sipcore@ietf.org References: From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: <10f66475-e804-809d-7613-ca0cf4c41e25@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 15:11:39 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181009-4, 2018/10/09), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Proxy behavior X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 06:11:46 -0000 Hi, On 2018/10/09 19:19, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > > I have tried to draft updated proxy procedures regarding session-timer.= > > > Note that there will also be UA procedures. > > > Regards, > > > Christer > > > --- > > > X.2. PROXY BEHAVIOR: > > > X.2.1. Receiving request: > > > - If the proxy receives a request with a S-E interval that it considers= too low, the proxy SHOULD reject the request with a 422 response. The current word in RFC4028 is [MAY], I think that there is no problem as= it stands. > - If the proxy receives a request without a S-E header field, it SHOULD= insert a S-E header field. If the proxy has previously inserted or forwa= rded a S-E header field within the dialog, it SHOULD insert the same S-E = header field value in the request. For the 1st "SHOULD", the current word in RFC4028 is [MAY], I think that = there is no problem as it stands. The 2nd "SHOULD" is seems to be good. > - The proxy MAY insert a Min-SE header field in the request, or increas= e the value of an existing Min-SE header field. The current RFC forbids this behaviour. But I think this is a necessary one as I've=A0 posted. > X.2.2. Receiving response: > > > - If the proxy receives a response without a S-E, and the proxy remembe= rs that the request indicated support of the session timer, the proxy MUS= T insert a S-E header field. The proxy MUST set the refresher parameter v= alue to "uac". and MUST add the "timer" option tag to any Require header field in the re= sponse. These are just current rules. > - If the proxy receives a response without a S-E, and the proxy remembe= rs that the request did not indicate support of the session timer, the pr= oxy forwards the response. No session timer will be negotiated. This is a just current rule. > - If the proxy receives a response with a S-E, the proxy forwards the r= esponse. The proxy MUST NOT modify the S-E header field. This is a just current rule. Regards, Shinji From nobody Tue Oct 9 23:45:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 331EE130E91 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:45:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=d9aXXqJf; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=Oo/VojMJ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q0l8w5JvFVFu for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net 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b=Oo/VojMJKXmy5m0Fn7VH9crOCoHJkEF20wyDmWMRU3NZOIYvw14eIGDhDSWdcGdpH8y7GEmRiCdGN6RgBtY3hkUwhvOHrh/yMs8wN+ShsFhJvo24gKQ7d8+ZP3QYspOg7ot1xauvNTvzmUtLcsMsw8BPImywQBQbuUEiUcvob+4= Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.57.157) by VI1PR07MB3279.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.175.243.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1228.20; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 06:44:31 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221]) by VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f7:7dd7:dc40:4221%6]) with mapi id 15.20.1228.020; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 06:44:20 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Proxy behavior Thread-Index: AQHUXwEJKvezKx8MBUqExTu1/sWdSKUYAjSAgAA7a4A= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 06:44:20 +0000 Message-ID: <02B543FE-2832-4AB8-9880-DAA9C013BD47@ericsson.com> References: 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e64-v6sm31443221pfe.55.2018.10.10.00.01.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Oct 2018 00:01:11 -0700 (PDT) To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <6f0950a1-a8e1-33b6-9771-48d5716020fc@gmail.com> <49996421-2553-dab1-1e47-ad52708aaf5e@alum.mit.edu> From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:01:08 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <49996421-2553-dab1-1e47-ad52708aaf5e@alum.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181009-4, 2018/10/09), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Min-SE in 2xx X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 07:01:18 -0000 Hi Paul, 7.4.=C2=A0 Generating Subsequent Session Refresh Requests =C2=A0=C2=A0 The value of the Min-SE header field present in a session re= fresh =C2=A0=C2=A0 request MUST be the largest value among all Min-SE header fi= eld =C2=A0=C2=A0 values returned in all 422 responses or received in session = refresh =C2=A0=C2=A0 requests, on the same dialog, if a dialog has been establish= ed.=C2=A0 If =C2=A0=C2=A0 no dialog has been established, the Min-SE header field valu= e is set =C2=A0=C2=A0 to the largest value among all Min-SE header field values re= turned in =C2=A0=C2=A0 all 422 responses for an INVITE request with the same Call-I= D.=C2=A0 A =C2=A0=C2=A0 result of this rule is that the maximum value of the Min-SE = is =C2=A0=C2=A0 effectively 'cleared' once the dialog is established, and fr= om that =C2=A0=C2=A0 point on, only the values from proxies known to be on the pr= oxy path =C2=A0=C2=A0 will end up being used. To be honest, I do not really understand the meaning of "cleared", IIUC, UAC and UAS seem to be expected to have a shared view for Min-SE. And at the beginning of writing, this RFC seems not to assume that the Mi= n-SE header is changed through the transaction. Needless to say, if the Min-SE header is not changed through the transact= ion, UAC and UAS have a shared view for Min-SE. So that, the answer to your question is the same as the reason UAC MUST a= dd the maximum Min-SE header to the request. If UAC needs not to know theshared view for Min-SE, it needs not to add t= he maximum Min-SE. Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/10 13:54, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 10/9/18 11:02 PM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >> Hi, >> >> According to the current RFC, only the UAS knows the maximum Min-SEC f= inally determined. >> In order to advertise this information to proxies and the UAC, I think= that the UAS may copy the Min-SE from the 2xx response request. > > Why is it necessary for the proxies and UAC to know this as long as the= y know the S-E that has been determined? > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks, > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Paul > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Wed Oct 10 03:25:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E41B130DE7 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 03:25:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO 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b3JlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIHNpcGNvcmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3NpcGNvcmUNCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Wed Oct 10 09:20:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23413130E9D; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:20:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MbKh-pQEO8dg; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2546C130F67; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutabilis-2.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w9AGKNsw043639 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:20:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mahoney@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be mutabilis-2.local To: marianne.mohali@orange.com, "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <30748_1537821142_5BA949D6_30748_17_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E21010@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: "A. Jean Mahoney" Cc: Ben Campbell Message-ID: <8070e740-3cbd-40da-7451-ff30b3f3fd9c@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:20:22 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <30748_1537821142_5BA949D6_30748_17_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E21010@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] New version (-04) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:20:27 -0000 Hi Marianne, Thanks for incorporating Ben's feedback. I have some suggested wording improvements on the latest changes. Section 1.1, p 1 - Current: A session case is an information indicating the status of the session in which the served user is involved (originating, terminating..). Suggested: A session case is metadata that captures the status of the session of a served user: whether the served user is registered or not, and whether the session originates or terminates with the served user. Section 1.3, p 1 - Current: A filter criteria is a user profile information that determines whether a particular initial request needs to be sent to a particular AS. Suggested: Filter criteria is information in the user profile that determines whether an initial request is sent to a particular AS. Section 5, bullet 2 - Current: o In [RFC5502], except for security reasons, it is not to clearly stated what to do with the received P-Served-User header field when a call is diverted to another destination. This document dealing with this specific use case, highlights that several possibilities exist: the S-CSCF could store the previous "regstate" value and decide that the same value applies, or the "regstate" may not be relevant after a diverting service and removed, or the regstate could be combined with the orig-cdiv session case to provide different services if the served user is registered or unregistered. These choices are implementation dependent. Suggested: o [RFC5502] does not clearly state what to do with the received P-Served-User header field when a call is diverted to another destination. This document highlights that there are several ways of handling the P-Served-User header field: the S-CSCF could store the previous "regstate" value and decide that the same value applies; or the "regstate" may no longer be relevant after a diverting service so the S-CSCF removes it; or the regstate could be combined with the orig-cdiv session case to provide different services depending on whether the served user is registered or unregistered. These choices are implementation dependent. Thanks! Jean On 9/24/18 3:32 PM, marianne.mohali@orange.com wrote: > Hi all, > > I've submitted a new version of the draft after Ben's review. > > Main changes between -03 and -04 are: > > -Addition of short definitions for session case and filter criteria > > -IANA considerations section is moved down. > > -security section is completed with more explanations on the trust > domain aspect for the header. > > -Editorials > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter/ > > Best regards, > > Marianne > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > From nobody Wed Oct 10 09:45:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B3D130F85 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:45:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id epFK_64zOkgS for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu [18.7.68.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A32A130F78 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:45:01 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440c-30bff70000000b12-ed-5bbe2c8adf23 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id DD.51.02834.B8C2EBB5; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9AGiv3R025491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:44:58 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <1ccdc157-e999-85a7-ac83-e20d013e178e@nostrum.com> <3163b24c-6b90-548c-14cb-ebf7e47f16d7@alum.mit.edu> <44419AAE-285C-4C40-ABDC-F90F1A7B6062@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:44:57 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <44419AAE-285C-4C40-ABDC-F90F1A7B6062@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpmleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IRYndR1O3R2Rdt0GhmcWHmYUaLrz82sTkw efz6epXNY8mSn0wBTFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGW8Pv2Aq6JKouDhpF2MD4wShLkZODgkBE4mr P+6ydTFycQgJ7GCS+NywlBUkISTwkElixTdTEFtYwF5i3f3HYHERgTSJnon97BANm5kkvi7o ZwJJsAloScw59J8FxOYFapj1eBIbiM0ioCrxZdlDsGZRoOa/nUsYIWoEJU7OfAJUz8HBKeAg cXUNP0iYWcBMYt7mh8wQtrjErSfzmSBseYntb+cwT2Dkn4WkexaSlllIWmYhaVnAyLKKUS4x pzRXNzcxM6c4NVm3ODkxLy+1SNdQLzezRC81pXQTIyRMeXYwflsnc4hRgINRiYf3h9S+aCHW xLLiytxDjJIcTEqivF3ue6OF+JLyUyozEosz4otKc1KLDzFKcDArifCulgcq501JrKxKLcqH SUlzsCiJ87Ka7I0SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2CycpwcChJ8MpoAzUKFqWmp1akZeaUIKSZODhBhvMA Db+tBTK8uCAxtzgzHSJ/itGSY8/XphnMHNvOdALJtqfXZzALseTl56VKifNqgwwVAGnIKM2D mwlLO68YxYFeFOadA1LFA0xZcFNfAS1kAlp4KmQPyMKSRISUVANjZcGEWackJzgvvh3TwVt8 V3Jew42khkm2az7xpn8001Jsr9pvqDXR5+G7DtXouD1/Lf5/cmLkCO2semATePChRBT3KjVr CbOMxw+2apzQn5XXEeW688icBrGDsZWP55neOfeQ4e0ZAx1uxvRLOzT3+rd1+Ijc39GSopGx JFOCc8WUvuov0meUWIozEg21mIuKEwF/kfN/FgMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] 2nd WGLC: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-18 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:45:07 -0000 On 10/10/18 2:49 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > ... > > >>>* Section 5.3.1 (and elsewhere) > >>> > >>>There seems to be an assumption baked in that all the contacts in the > >>>register request are for the device sending the request. While that is > >>>the common case, it isn't necessarily the case. > >>> > >>>IIUC it isn't necessary to make any such assumption. Rather, all the > >>>state that is being managed should be associated to each contact in the > >>>register request. (In principle those contacts can even have different > >>>expiration times.) It then becomes an optimization to send one > >>>notification for multiple contacts that happen to expire at the same > >>>time and have the same PRID. > >>> > >>>(Note that when there are multiple contacts in a register request the > >>>registrar doesn't know if those contacts identify multiple paths to a > >>>single UA or to distinct UAs.) > >>> > >>>ISTM that there needs to be some text addressing this. Either sorting > >>>out how it works, or limiting usage of this mechanism to cases where all > >>>the contacts being registered are paths to a single UA and have a single > >>>expiration time. > >> > >> My suggestion is to limit the usage to cases where all the contacts are > >> associated with a single UA, as multiple UAs won't share the same PRID. > > > > I'd be happy with this. What about the case where there are multiple > > contacts for the same UA but with different expiration times? (I'm > > stretching here - I can't think of a reason why.) > > As I wrote in a follow-up reply yesterday, I am not sure whether we would need such restrictions. The proxy will check all bindings, and request a push notification if one or more is about to expires. Obviously, as stated in the document, when the UA receives the push notification it will also refresh bindings that are not about to expire. But, that won't break anything. I guess you are right - that the proxy will need to generate the notify for the earliest expiring binding, and the UA can refresh them all at the same time. There is of course no requirement for the UA to refresh them all. It might decide to simply refresh the one about to expire and not mention the others, in the expectation that they will be unchanged. (This is odd behavior, but not forbidden.) If that were to happen, the proxy would need to generate a new notification when the next of the contacts is about to expire. I don't think we need to make any special requirements on the UA for this. And I guess maybe the required behavior of the proxy in such a case is implied. > However, in my experience, if a UA registers multiple contacts to begin with, it will use the same expiration time for all of them. Yes, I would expect this to be typical. I don't know why an implementation would do otherwise, but you never know. Thanks, Paul From nobody Wed Oct 10 11:27:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5F3128B14 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:27:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SJrMvEkt-ow7 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu [18.7.68.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E672F1252B7 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:27:33 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074413-125ff70000000b2e-71-5bbe4494e9bb Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id BE.83.02862.5944EBB5; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9AIRWve031513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:27:32 -0400 To: OKUMURA Shinji , sipcore@ietf.org References: <6f0950a1-a8e1-33b6-9771-48d5716020fc@gmail.com> <49996421-2553-dab1-1e47-ad52708aaf5e@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:27:31 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmplleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IRYndR1J3qsi/aYMcsbosl/WvYLL7+2MTm wOSxc9Zddo8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGW0XdjFXvBXq2L6o99sDYwfFbsYOTkkBEwk fu7eygxiCwnsYJJoXmLbxcgFZD9kktjS+Z4NJCEsYCxxofUkO4gtImAjMe/SfDaIoqWMEif/ 9oF1swloScw59J8FxOYVsJdYfvAhWDOLgKpE57WtrCC2qECaxN/OJYwQNYISJ2c+AavnFLCV WP7vEFgNs4CZxLzND5khbHGJW0/mM0HY8hLNW2czT2Dkn4WkfRaSlllIWmYhaVnAyLKKUS4x pzRXNzcxM6c4NVm3ODkxLy+1SNdcLzezRC81pXQTIyRUhXcw7jopd4hRgINRiYf3h9S+aCHW xLLiytxDjJIcTEqivF3ue6OF+JLyUyozEosz4otKc1KLDzFKcDArifCulgcq501JrKxKLcqH SUlzsCiJ8zKb7I0SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2CycpwcChJ8Do6AzUKFqWmp1akZeaUIKSZODhBhvMA De8EqeEtLkjMLc5Mh8ifYrTk2PO1aQYzR9vT60CyA0QKseTl56VKifNGgTQIgDRklObBzYSl nleM4kAvCvNWglTxANMW3NRXQAuZgBaeCtkDsrAkESEl1cDoXtvfvfVa056jcydEbZH2NF/G sryT5U1J4Naf2XabFA3vTO/wZhEwFJooc3J96g+P28vzVq14qa1Us2Ry59X5sfusypVW/t39 J64oTPl5zDqujbuCd07JjNRVP7zhRfkFxk1Peo84vOLl/e1XtqfuhPbLst+pH7riP/6/KzD3 V8KEtzs6Z8VOV2Ipzkg01GIuKk4EAMOlsiQYAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Min-SE in 2xx X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:27:36 -0000 On 10/10/18 3:01 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi Paul, > > 7.4.  Generating Subsequent Session Refresh Requests > >    The value of the Min-SE header field present in a session refresh >    request MUST be the largest value among all Min-SE header field >    values returned in all 422 responses or received in session refresh >    requests, on the same dialog, if a dialog has been established.  If >    no dialog has been established, the Min-SE header field value is set >    to the largest value among all Min-SE header field values returned in >    all 422 responses for an INVITE request with the same Call-ID.  A >    result of this rule is that the maximum value of the Min-SE is >    effectively 'cleared' once the dialog is established, and from that >    point on, only the values from proxies known to be on the proxy path >    will end up being used. > > To be honest, I do not really understand the meaning of "cleared", Nor do I. But we can try to figure out what it was trying to say. The rfc seems to envision proxies forcing renegotiation by sending a 422 response, in the expectation that this will force a retry that will result in a larger S-E value. For this to work, the UAC must remember the Min-SE in the 422, and reuse it in retries. If there are multiple retries due to multiple 422 responses (from proxies further along the route), the max of these must be used in subsequent retries. The text in 7.4 seems to also be intending that the final Min-SE then be used in refresh requests within the dialog once established. It isn't clear to me why that is necessary, as long as the S-E value is preserved. I don't see why Min-SE is required at all within an established dialog, unless there is an intent to renegotiate the timer. If that is the intent, then ISTM it would be better to release all constraints and simply do the whole negotiation over. (But this could cause serious trouble of it causes reINVITE or UPDATEs to fail with 422.) I also suspect that forking was not considered with this was written. If there is forking along the path and proxies on one or more paths return 422, then the forking proxy is forced to hold those responses until it has heard from all forks, and it then can only return a single 422. If more than one fork returned 422, then the forking proxy ought to return a 422 with the largest Min-SE value. "Clearing" once the dialog is established seems to me to be talking about cleaning up irrelevant information that may have been received as a result of forking during initial dialog establishment, when there might be multiple paths, and also proxies that don't record-route and so aren't on the path once the dialog has been established. Does that make any sense? I don't think so. Once a successful response is received, I think we can assume that the Min-SE value the UAC used in the request must have been required to establish the dialog, and to have come from a proxy on the path to the selected UAS. I see nothing to "clear" here. Or perhaps it is trying to address a case where there was a proxy on the path that inserted a Min-SE (or increased it) but that proxy didn't record route and so isn't on the path for refreshes. But ISTM that it would be improper for a proxy to take any part in timer negotiation if it won't be on the path for the dialog. So I don't see need for any "clearing" there either. Perhaps we could add a MUST NOT for proxies that won't be on the path just to make this clear. > IIUC, UAC and UAS seem to be expected to have a shared view for Min-SE. I still don't understand why there is need for anything other than the UAS (or the final proxy prior to a UAS that lacks support) to know what the final Min-SE value was. Its only need is to select the final S-E value. > And at the beginning of writing, this RFC seems not to assume that the Min-SE header is changed through the transaction. > Needless to say, if the Min-SE header is not changed through the transaction, UAC and UAS have a shared view for Min-SE. > So that, the answer to your question is the same as the reason UAC MUST add the maximum Min-SE header to the request. > If UAC needs not to know theshared view for Min-SE, it needs not to add the maximum Min-SE. Clearly proxies can change (increase) the value as they forward the transaction. I don't understand why there need be any carryover of the Min-SE value from the initial establishment to subsequent refresh transactions. Or even why Min-SE would be used at all in refresh requests. It should not be needed as long as S-E is preserved and the proxies don't change their mind about their needs. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > Shinji > > On 2018/10/10 13:54, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> On 10/9/18 11:02 PM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> According to the current RFC, only the UAS knows the maximum Min-SEC finally determined. >>> In order to advertise this information to proxies and the UAC, I think that the UAS may copy the Min-SE from the 2xx response request. >> >> Why is it necessary for the proxies and UAC to know this as long as they know the S-E that has been determined? >> >>     Thanks, >>     Paul >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sipcore mailing list >> sipcore@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > > From nobody Wed Oct 10 12:45:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419C21277C8 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:45:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.756 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.756 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =85 >> As I wrote in a follow-up reply yesterday, I am not sure whether we woul= d need such restrictions. >> The proxy will check all bindings, and request a push notification if on= e or more is about to expires. >> Obviously, as stated in the document, when the UA receives the push noti= fication it will also refresh >> bindings that are not about to expire. But, that won't break anything. > > I guess you are right - that the proxy will need to generate the notify > for the earliest expiring binding, and the UA can refresh them all at > the same time. There is of course no requirement for the UA to refresh > them all. It might decide to simply refresh the one about to expire and > not mention the others, in the expectation that they will be unchanged. > (This is odd behavior, but not forbidden.) The UA needs to refresh all bindings, because the reason for the push notif= ication might be an incoming request. (In future we might consider carrying information in the push notification= whether it's sent just to trigger a binding refresh, or whether there is a= lso an incoming request, and for which binding(s) the push notification is = sent). So, for that reason I think it is good to say that the UA SHOULD use the sa= me expiration for all bindings. Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB4782AE417DA1C9B85DC8390893E00VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


=85


>> As I wrote in a follow-up reply yesterday, I am no= t sure whether we would need such restrictions. 

>> The proxy will check all bindings, and request a p= ush notification if one or more is about to expires. 

>> Obviously, as stated in the document, when the UA = receives the push notification it will also refresh 

>> bindings that are not about to expire. But, that w= on't break anything.

>
> I guess you are right - that the proxy will need to generate the notif= y
> for the earliest expiring binding, and the UA= can refresh them all at
> the same time. There is of course no requirement for the UA to refresh=
> them all. It might decide to simply refresh t= he one about to expire and
> not mention the others, in the expectation that they will be unchanged= .
> (This is odd behavior, but not forbidden.)

The UA needs to refresh all bindings, because the = reason for the push notification might be an incoming request.

 (In future we might consider carrying inform= ation in the push notification whether it's sent just to trigger a binding = refresh, or whether there is also an incoming request, and for which bindin= g(s) the push notification is sent).

So, for that reason I think it is good to say that= the UA SHOULD use the same expiration for all bindings.

Regards,

Christer

--_000_VI1PR07MB4782AE417DA1C9B85DC8390893E00VI1PR07MB4782eurp_-- From nobody Thu Oct 11 00:10:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0CA130E3F; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 00:10:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.86.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <153924184619.11192.2168916076150580940@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 00:10:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-05.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:10:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : A P-Served-User Header Field Parameter for Originating CDIV session case in Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Author : Marianne Mohali Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-05.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2018-10-11 Abstract: The P-Served-User header field is used to convey the identity of the served user and the session case that applies to this particular communication session and application invocation. This document updates RFC5502 by defining a new P-Served-User header field parameter, "orig-cdiv". The parameter conveys the session case used by a proxy when handling an originating session after Call Diversion (CDIV) services have been invoked for the served user. This document also fixes the ABNF in RFC 5502 and provides more guidance for using the P-Served-User header field in IP networks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Oct 11 00:34:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1B8130E07; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 00:34:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e2eXcp-VE3rS; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 00:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F18E130DE1; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 00:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.11]) by opfedar25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42W2lf6fG2z8tnq; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:34:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.63]) by opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42W2lf5W42zCqkf; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:34:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM6E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f5a7:eab1:c095:d9ec%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:34:06 +0200 From: To: "A. Jean Mahoney" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" CC: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: New version (-04) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter (NEW v-05) Thread-Index: AdRhNMHhyVYPps5eQqCKwSVmMF1gxA== Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:34:05 +0000 Message-ID: <19565_1539243246_5BBEFCEE_19565_165_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E3C050@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] New version (-04) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter (NEW v-05) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:34:11 -0000 Hi Jean, Thanks for your suggestions. I have updated the draft (v-05) to take them o= n board. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parame= ter/ Best regards, Marianne -----Message d'origine----- De=A0: A. Jean Mahoney [mailto:mahoney@nostrum.com]=20 Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 10 octobre 2018 18:20 =C0=A0: MOHALI Marianne IMT/OLN; sipcore-chairs@ietf.org; sipcore@ietf.org Cc=A0: Ben Campbell Objet=A0: Re: New version (-04) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-para= meter Hi Marianne, Thanks for incorporating Ben's feedback. I have some suggested wording=20 improvements on the latest changes. Section 1.1, p 1 - Current: A session case is an information indicating the status of the session in which the served user is involved (originating, terminating..). Suggested: A session case is metadata that captures the status of the session of a served user: whether the served user is registered or not, and whether the session originates or terminates with the served user. Section 1.3, p 1 - Current: A filter criteria is a user profile information that determines whether a particular initial request needs to be sent to a particular AS. Suggested: Filter criteria is information in the user profile that determines whether an initial request is sent to a particular AS. Section 5, bullet 2 - Current: o In [RFC5502], except for security reasons, it is not to clearly stated what to do with the received P-Served-User header field when a call is diverted to another destination. This document dealing with this specific use case, highlights that several possibilities exist: the S-CSCF could store the previous "regstate" value and decide that the same value applies, or the "regstate" may not be relevant after a diverting service and removed, or the regstate could be combined with the orig-cdiv session case to provide different services if the served user is registered or unregistered. These choices are implementation dependent. Suggested: o [RFC5502] does not clearly state what to do with the received P-Served-User header field when a call is diverted to another destination. This document highlights that there are several ways of handling the P-Served-User header field: the S-CSCF could store the previous "regstate" value and decide that the same value applies; or the "regstate" may no longer be relevant after a diverting service so the S-CSCF removes it; or the regstate could be combined with the orig-cdiv session case to provide different services depending on whether the served user is registered or unregistered. These choices are implementation dependent. Thanks! Jean On 9/24/18 3:32 PM, marianne.mohali@orange.com wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > I've submitted a new version of the draft after Ben's review. >=20 > Main changes between -03 and -04=A0 are: >=20 > -Addition of short definitions for "session case" and "filter criteria" >=20 > -IANA considerations section is moved down. >=20 > -security section is completed with more explanations on the trust=20 > domain aspect for the header. >=20 > -Editorials >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-para= meter/ >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Marianne >=20 > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 84-v6sm608570pfs.108.2018.10.11.23.18.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Oct 2018 23:18:51 -0700 (PDT) To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <6f0950a1-a8e1-33b6-9771-48d5716020fc@gmail.com> <49996421-2553-dab1-1e47-ad52708aaf5e@alum.mit.edu> From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 15:18:48 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181011-4, 2018/10/12), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Min-SE in 2xx X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 06:18:55 -0000 Hi, I agree with your commentary. We may have to change the rules that the Min-SE value MUST be the largest= one. For example, the following modifications A UA should send an "Min-SE" that indicates what it, and its user, are interested in using/doing at that time, without regard for what the other party in the call may have indicated previously. What do you think? Regards, Shinji P.S. > Clearly proxies can change (increase) the value as they forward the tra= nsaction. The current RFC forbids this behaviour if UAC does not support session-ti= mer. But I think this is necessary. On 2018/10/11 3:27, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 10/10/18 3:01 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >> Hi Paul, >> >> 7.4.=C2=A0 Generating Subsequent Session Refresh Requests >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The value of the Min-SE header field present in a s= ession refresh >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 request MUST be the largest value among all Min-SE = header field >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 values returned in all 422 responses or received in= session refresh >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 requests, on the same dialog, if a dialog has been = established.=C2=A0 If >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 no dialog has been established, the Min-SE header f= ield value is set >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 to the largest value among all Min-SE header field = values returned in >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 all 422 responses for an INVITE request with the sa= me Call-ID.=C2=A0 A >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 result of this rule is that the maximum value of th= e Min-SE is >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 effectively 'cleared' once the dialog is establishe= d, and from that >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 point on, only the values from proxies known to be = on the proxy path >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 will end up being used. >> >> To be honest, I do not really understand the meaning of "cleared", > > Nor do I. But we can try to figure out what it was trying to say. > > The rfc seems to envision proxies forcing renegotiation by sending a 42= 2 response, in the expectation that this will force a retry that will res= ult in a larger S-E value. For this to work, the UAC must remember the Mi= n-SE in the 422, and reuse it in retries. If there are multiple retries d= ue to multiple 422 responses (from proxies further along the route), the = max of these must be used in subsequent retries. > > The text in 7.4 seems to also be intending that the final Min-SE then b= e used in refresh requests within the dialog once established. It isn't c= lear to me why that is necessary, as long as the S-E value is preserved. = I don't see why Min-SE is required at all within an established dialog, u= nless there is an intent to renegotiate the timer. If that is the intent,= then ISTM it would be better to release all constraints and simply do th= e whole negotiation over. (But this could cause serious trouble of it cau= ses reINVITE or UPDATEs to fail with 422.) > > I also suspect that forking was not considered with this was written. I= f there is forking along the path and proxies on one or more paths return= 422, then the forking proxy is forced to hold those responses until it h= as heard from all forks, and it then can only return a single 422. If mor= e than one fork returned 422, then the forking proxy ought to return a 42= 2 with the largest Min-SE value. > > "Clearing" once the dialog is established seems to me to be talking abo= ut cleaning up irrelevant information that may have been received as a re= sult of forking during initial dialog establishment, when there might be = multiple paths, and also proxies that don't record-route and so aren't on= the path once the dialog has been established. > > Does that make any sense? I don't think so. > > Once a successful response is received, I think we can assume that the = Min-SE value the UAC used in the request must have been required to estab= lish the dialog, and to have come from a proxy on the path to the selecte= d UAS. I see nothing to "clear" here. > > Or perhaps it is trying to address a case where there was a proxy on th= e path that inserted a Min-SE (or increased it) but that proxy didn't rec= ord route and so isn't on the path for refreshes. But ISTM that it would = be improper for a proxy to take any part in timer negotiation if it won't= be on the path for the dialog. So I don't see need for any "clearing" th= ere either. Perhaps we could add a MUST NOT for proxies that won't be on = the path just to make this clear. > >> IIUC, UAC and UAS seem to be expected to have a shared view for Min-SE= =2E > > I still don't understand why there is need for anything other than the = UAS (or the final proxy prior to a UAS that lacks support) to know what t= he final Min-SE value was. Its only need is to select the final S-E value= =2E > >> And at the beginning of writing, this RFC seems not to assume that the= Min-SE header is changed through the transaction. >> Needless to say, if the Min-SE header is not changed through the trans= action, UAC and UAS have a shared view for Min-SE. >> So that, the answer to your question is the same as the reason UAC MUS= T add the maximum Min-SE header to the request. >> If UAC needs not to know theshared view for Min-SE, it needs not to ad= d the maximum Min-SE. > > Clearly proxies can change (increase) the value as they forward the tra= nsaction. > > I don't understand why there need be any carryover of the Min-SE value = from the initial establishment to subsequent refresh transactions. Or eve= n why Min-SE would be used at all in refresh requests. It should not be n= eeded as long as S-E is preserved and the proxies don't change their mind= about their needs. > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks, > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Paul > > >> Regards, >> Shinji >> >> On 2018/10/10 13:54, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>> On 10/9/18 11:02 PM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> According to the current RFC, only the UAS knows the maximum Min-SEC= finally determined. >>>> In order to advertise this information to proxies and the UAC, I thi= nk that the UAS may copy the Min-SE from the 2xx response request. >>> >>> Why is it necessary for the proxies and UAC to know this as long as t= hey know the S-E that has been determined? >>> >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks, >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Paul >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sipcore mailing list >>> sipcore@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore >> >> >> > From nobody Fri Oct 12 01:05:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0970130DC2 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:05:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xxM6mMChJgia for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x633.google.com (mail-pl1-x633.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::633]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9F59130DFB for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x633.google.com with SMTP id u6-v6so2809813plz.4 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:05:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:openpgp:autocrypt:subject:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=6QJlKKNCTL/s2/M9qiqA2UozDiSaRvCSZVTVfr1njUI=; b=OGb7oiJgaAn2PC9sTVywOGEEx5DBuO+B13ypRv6KRElOoJsQ8wj2MFEJMIti4WeThq UaKft1hEaaNkpTnlJB9Vzow6povP6VqDoyDTPUmcNwLk4HTluz0gmkGHvbNzG5DoJmu9 SeFCmc/CTSjYSJ71D8MK3Yb1jcaqEVpkumCJuDcpD7dgE3Tgh8ueh737YzLigSUWCjAR 4HCPv0xKVW/fI0ccYkQVxKcGrOejORZn6iM62jkICs3YUKQKihJqy4zR9EaLjx03raRn FqdZyR9g2G5RaIZPUh6klHi1LZdv1VTDJwXJjVVx5eJbKtU7GChFGRiLuKl1QAGJ+REz jFKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:openpgp:autocrypt:subject :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=6QJlKKNCTL/s2/M9qiqA2UozDiSaRvCSZVTVfr1njUI=; b=F0jzw5q4YmSYaOgPeLh3ly7U0iJa2le+p3N0/qR/9m5PPkLXBIhXXKslKcQjWKMunM tivHkz8NPj+d9Wi9p+hQn+DvDsAN3KIMeEdUi9m6PfsSUcYf3Hg+tpyBm1dVLp8dqZgg g92O1rf+FGTNZ1hpsCb8xfuC8F7JPK5g2RMmFQgQArIllraN5XXMkOtf1S4P8ziHwuoq cwg+F17akml87BA9b82H62WHzvhBeJNq4qw8/7bBimbeMa73x+CKEOCqgY+M+CwFVZLA yUPIBBzyobjhsAOev4MATVn9Xvbrg9hv7w6bMMUuJEfpYQdPxfhfSogatXX99xSsZ4Wz Ntbw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoivOh5VFzBlq/T7njUSFiLSVfDZvZUq6IhH2AffZDTpDUcU+xLy cQlAQjaTPLXnvetuo6l4l+pdVUE1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV63ZBcIDIsuavwLSFm1ATLNjHFTTKuhWVRZKpI6cF3dCiDG/xE80lZimHYBWqccg5nwfTPSaFg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:292a:: with SMTP id g39-v6mr4893434plb.269.1539331555401; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.126] (x156176.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp. [122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x15-v6sm2224178pfd.27.2018.10.12.01.05.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:05:54 -0700 (PDT) From: OKUMURA Shinji To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <6f0950a1-a8e1-33b6-9771-48d5716020fc@gmail.com> <49996421-2553-dab1-1e47-ad52708aaf5e@alum.mit.edu> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: <00923a9b-a546-a366-7c03-6de413f33272@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 17:05:52 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181012-0, 2018/10/12), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Min-SE in 2xx X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:05:58 -0000 On 2018/10/12 15:18, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi, > > I agree with your commentary. > We may have to change the rules that the Min-SE value MUST be the large= st one. > > For example, the following modifications > > A UA should send an "Min-SE" that indicates what it, and its user, are > interested in using/doing at that time, without regard for what the > other party in the call may have indicated previously. > > What do you think? > > Regards, > Shinji > > P.S. >> Clearly proxies can change (increase) the value as they forward the tr= ansaction. > The current RFC forbids this behaviour if UAC does not support session-= timer. [It is correct as follows] The current RFC forbids this behaviour if UAC support session-timer. > But I think this is necessary. > > On 2018/10/11 3:27, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> On 10/10/18 3:01 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>> >>> 7.4.=C2=A0 Generating Subsequent Session Refresh Requests >>> >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The value of the Min-SE header field present in a = session refresh >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 request MUST be the largest value among all Min-SE= header field >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 values returned in all 422 responses or received i= n session refresh >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 requests, on the same dialog, if a dialog has been= established.=C2=A0 If >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 no dialog has been established, the Min-SE header = field value is set >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 to the largest value among all Min-SE header field= values returned in >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 all 422 responses for an INVITE request with the s= ame Call-ID.=C2=A0 A >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 result of this rule is that the maximum value of t= he Min-SE is >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 effectively 'cleared' once the dialog is establish= ed, and from that >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 point on, only the values from proxies known to be= on the proxy path >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 will end up being used. >>> >>> To be honest, I do not really understand the meaning of "cleared", >> Nor do I. But we can try to figure out what it was trying to say. >> >> The rfc seems to envision proxies forcing renegotiation by sending a 4= 22 response, in the expectation that this will force a retry that will re= sult in a larger S-E value. For this to work, the UAC must remember the M= in-SE in the 422, and reuse it in retries. If there are multiple retries = due to multiple 422 responses (from proxies further along the route), the= max of these must be used in subsequent retries. >> >> The text in 7.4 seems to also be intending that the final Min-SE then = be used in refresh requests within the dialog once established. It isn't = clear to me why that is necessary, as long as the S-E value is preserved.= I don't see why Min-SE is required at all within an established dialog, = unless there is an intent to renegotiate the timer. If that is the intent= , then ISTM it would be better to release all constraints and simply do t= he whole negotiation over. (But this could cause serious trouble of it ca= uses reINVITE or UPDATEs to fail with 422.) >> >> I also suspect that forking was not considered with this was written. = If there is forking along the path and proxies on one or more paths retur= n 422, then the forking proxy is forced to hold those responses until it = has heard from all forks, and it then can only return a single 422. If mo= re than one fork returned 422, then the forking proxy ought to return a 4= 22 with the largest Min-SE value. >> >> "Clearing" once the dialog is established seems to me to be talking ab= out cleaning up irrelevant information that may have been received as a r= esult of forking during initial dialog establishment, when there might be= multiple paths, and also proxies that don't record-route and so aren't o= n the path once the dialog has been established. >> >> Does that make any sense? I don't think so. >> >> Once a successful response is received, I think we can assume that the= Min-SE value the UAC used in the request must have been required to esta= blish the dialog, and to have come from a proxy on the path to the select= ed UAS. I see nothing to "clear" here. >> >> Or perhaps it is trying to address a case where there was a proxy on t= he path that inserted a Min-SE (or increased it) but that proxy didn't re= cord route and so isn't on the path for refreshes. But ISTM that it would= be improper for a proxy to take any part in timer negotiation if it won'= t be on the path for the dialog. So I don't see need for any "clearing" t= here either. Perhaps we could add a MUST NOT for proxies that won't be on= the path just to make this clear. >> >>> IIUC, UAC and UAS seem to be expected to have a shared view for Min-S= E. >> I still don't understand why there is need for anything other than the= UAS (or the final proxy prior to a UAS that lacks support) to know what = the final Min-SE value was. Its only need is to select the final S-E valu= e. >> >>> And at the beginning of writing, this RFC seems not to assume that th= e Min-SE header is changed through the transaction. >>> Needless to say, if the Min-SE header is not changed through the tran= saction, UAC and UAS have a shared view for Min-SE. >>> So that, the answer to your question is the same as the reason UAC MU= ST add the maximum Min-SE header to the request. >>> If UAC needs not to know theshared view for Min-SE, it needs not to a= dd the maximum Min-SE. >> Clearly proxies can change (increase) the value as they forward the tr= ansaction. >> >> I don't understand why there need be any carryover of the Min-SE value= from the initial establishment to subsequent refresh transactions. Or ev= en why Min-SE would be used at all in refresh requests. It should not be = needed as long as S-E is preserved and the proxies don't change their min= d about their needs. >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks, >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Paul >> >> >>> Regards, >>> Shinji >>> >>> On 2018/10/10 13:54, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>>> On 10/9/18 11:02 PM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> According to the current RFC, only the UAS knows the maximum Min-SE= C finally determined. >>>>> In order to advertise this information to proxies and the UAC, I th= ink that the UAS may copy the Min-SE from the 2xx response request. >>>> Why is it necessary for the proxies and UAC to know this as long as = they know the S-E that has been determined? >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks, >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Paul >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sipcore mailing list >>>> sipcore@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore >>> >>> > From nobody Fri Oct 12 02:10:55 2018 Return-Path: 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KICAgIHNpcGNvcmUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQog ICAgc2lwY29yZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vc2lwY29yZQ0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Fri Oct 12 02:47:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89AA3130DC0; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 02:47:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.86.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <153933763053.29253.5162920091758459718@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 02:47:10 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-19.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 09:47:10 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Authors : Christer Holmberg Michael Arnold Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-19.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2018-10-12 Abstract: This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to trigger such push notification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-19 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-19 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-19 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Oct 12 02:55:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16043130DF2 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 02:55:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.756 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.756 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=ApJDlfgK; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=YP22qrUY Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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Oct 2018 09:55:32 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: "sipcore@ietf.org" CC: "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Draft new version: SIP Push-19 Thread-Index: AQHUYhG2zhff5QNxaUCCn5xExGm3Iw== Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 09:55:31 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.11.0.180909 x-originating-ip: [89.166.49.243] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; VI1PR07MB3247; 6:JiP/haeeZOMXYWbeqJLqiJzM0BU2rDlZc48xaVEaxadPCFdY3mNU9w5r5ovmIKSGsSZqP8EVxYXobxr4D+viFKtj2g+lrFY/KQuUfHdf6WKOZngvVhMoaqgLKOB2Alt680Q6hAQZ2KGTZEEq+KtJ6kivTNXa9TXwJ8uINX/ttxwD3AxfYT89WLcV4M1wLei5w2k7U1aCzVCkEFixbqUdR7oqJsGNMe9EwH6aJrg30vYLLM6964O3M0y/i8LjcCGaGrc0xfjsgP5gWJUZWENFgKTuSnlxy7E4CuysxEW7jIspdbK8zaw5+cU5pHu4MNi7PaRACYc195xFOuwROt7IMl9cEwZXiUmss8Q1tgb9TOCxP5oiPnsjCvNiLIwbG8JvalkclaNG/F2xpMgUJ2OdAFJ77UHCiYNR6khr/4j77HQECdzVOK1DaPl5ZfUqMHi3iM2EFpO2Hy5DYqCu85aWPA==; 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[61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 25-v6sm5999391pfm.36.2018.10.12.07.54.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 12 Oct 2018 07:54:37 -0700 (PDT) To: "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <6f0950a1-a8e1-33b6-9771-48d5716020fc@gmail.com> <49996421-2553-dab1-1e47-ad52708aaf5e@alum.mit.edu> <00923a9b-a546-a366-7c03-6de413f33272@gmail.com> <634EA659-AACB-4808-8DCC-E04FC05B6E86@ericsson.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: <94849e61-363f-df20-62b5-85e267ff2b97@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 23:54:32 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <634EA659-AACB-4808-8DCC-E04FC05B6E86@ericsson.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E36B5EE3FA559B7391ED503B" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181012-2, 2018/10/12), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Min-SE in 2xx X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:54:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E36B5EE3FA559B7391ED503B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, It got bigger than the original intention... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= BACKGROUND: Section 7.3 of RFC 4028 says about a processing a 422 response Section 7.4 of RFC 4028 says about a session refresh request within a established dialog and a retry of initial session refresh request due to 422 responses. SUGGESTION: We modify section 7.3 to explain a processing a 422 response and a retry of initial session refresh request due to 422 responses. And we modify section 7.4 to explain a session refresh request within a established dialog. ------------------------- 7.3. Processing a 422 Response Before the dialog is established If the response to a session refresh request is a 422 (Session Interval Too Small) response message, then the UAC MAY retry the request. This new request constitutes a new transaction and SHOULD have the same value as the Call-ID, To, and From of the previous request, but the CSeq should contain a new sequence number that is one higher than the previous= =2E The values of Supported, Require, and Proxy-Require used in this new request MUST be equal to the values of the previous request. A UAC MUST insert the Min-SE header field into this new request and the value of the Min-SE header field is set to the largest value among all Min-SE header field values returned in all 422 responses for sequential INVITE requests with the same Call-ID. The UAC may have its own opinions about the minimum session interval. In that case, the UAC MAY increase the value of the Min-SE header field. In this request, the Session-Expires header SHOULD be present and it's value SHOULD be equal to the maximum of the Min-SE header field. ------------------------- 7.4. Generating Session Refresh Requests within a Established Dialog The values of Supported, Require, and Proxy-Require used in the initial Session refresh request MUST be used. The UAC SHOULD insert the Session-Expires header field, and it's value SHOULD be equal to the current session interval. The UAC MAY insert the Min-SE header field into a session refresh request= =2E Once the dialog is established, the maximum value of the Min-SE is cleared and a UA may decide the Min-SE header field value without regard for the Min-SE header received previously. If the UAC receives 422 response for a session refresh request, the behavior of UAC conforms to section 7.3. (snipping) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/12 18:10, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > Could you create an issue in GitHub for this? > > The IETF meeting is coming up, and when I do my slides etc I don't want= to go through tons of e-mails in order to make sure I get all suggested = changes etc :) > > Regards, > > Christer > > =EF=BB=BFOn 12/10/2018, 11.06, "sipcore on behalf of OKUMURA Shinji" wrote: > > =20 > =20 > On 2018/10/12 15:18, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I agree with your commentary. > > We may have to change the rules that the Min-SE value MUST be the= largest one. > > > > For example, the following modifications > > > > A UA should send an "Min-SE" that indicates what it, and its user= , are > > interested in using/doing at that time, without regard for what t= he > > other party in the call may have indicated previously. > > > > What do you think? > > > > Regards, > > Shinji > > > > P.S. > >> Clearly proxies can change (increase) the value as they forward = the transaction. > > The current RFC forbids this behaviour if UAC does not support se= ssion-timer. > =20 > [It is correct as follows] > =20 > The current RFC forbids this behaviour if UAC support session-timer= =2E > =20 > > But I think this is necessary. > > > > On 2018/10/11 3:27, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > >> On 10/10/18 3:01 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > >>> Hi Paul, > >>> > >>> 7.4. Generating Subsequent Session Refresh Requests > >>> > >>> The value of the Min-SE header field present in a session r= efresh > >>> request MUST be the largest value among all Min-SE header f= ield > >>> values returned in all 422 responses or received in session= refresh > >>> requests, on the same dialog, if a dialog has been establis= hed. If > >>> no dialog has been established, the Min-SE header field val= ue is set > >>> to the largest value among all Min-SE header field values r= eturned in > >>> all 422 responses for an INVITE request with the same Call-= ID. A > >>> result of this rule is that the maximum value of the Min-SE= is > >>> effectively 'cleared' once the dialog is established, and f= rom that > >>> point on, only the values from proxies known to be on the p= roxy path > >>> will end up being used. > >>> > >>> To be honest, I do not really understand the meaning of "cleare= d", > >> Nor do I. But we can try to figure out what it was trying to say= =2E > >> > >> The rfc seems to envision proxies forcing renegotiation by sendi= ng a 422 response, in the expectation that this will force a retry that w= ill result in a larger S-E value. For this to work, the UAC must remember= the Min-SE in the 422, and reuse it in retries. If there are multiple re= tries due to multiple 422 responses (from proxies further along the route= ), the max of these must be used in subsequent retries. > >> > >> The text in 7.4 seems to also be intending that the final Min-SE= then be used in refresh requests within the dialog once established. It = isn't clear to me why that is necessary, as long as the S-E value is pres= erved. I don't see why Min-SE is required at all within an established di= alog, unless there is an intent to renegotiate the timer. If that is the = intent, then ISTM it would be better to release all constraints and simpl= y do the whole negotiation over. (But this could cause serious trouble of= it causes reINVITE or UPDATEs to fail with 422.) > >> > >> I also suspect that forking was not considered with this was wri= tten. If there is forking along the path and proxies on one or more paths= return 422, then the forking proxy is forced to hold those responses unt= il it has heard from all forks, and it then can only return a single 422.= If more than one fork returned 422, then the forking proxy ought to retu= rn a 422 with the largest Min-SE value. > >> > >> "Clearing" once the dialog is established seems to me to be talk= ing about cleaning up irrelevant information that may have been received = as a result of forking during initial dialog establishment, when there mi= ght be multiple paths, and also proxies that don't record-route and so ar= en't on the path once the dialog has been established. > >> > >> Does that make any sense? I don't think so. > >> > >> Once a successful response is received, I think we can assume th= at the Min-SE value the UAC used in the request must have been required t= o establish the dialog, and to have come from a proxy on the path to the = selected UAS. I see nothing to "clear" here. > >> > >> Or perhaps it is trying to address a case where there was a prox= y on the path that inserted a Min-SE (or increased it) but that proxy did= n't record route and so isn't on the path for refreshes. But ISTM that it= would be improper for a proxy to take any part in timer negotiation if i= t won't be on the path for the dialog. So I don't see need for any "clear= ing" there either. Perhaps we could add a MUST NOT for proxies that won't= be on the path just to make this clear. > >> > >>> IIUC, UAC and UAS seem to be expected to have a shared view for= Min-SE. > >> I still don't understand why there is need for anything other th= an the UAS (or the final proxy prior to a UAS that lacks support) to know= what the final Min-SE value was. Its only need is to select the final S-= E value. > >> > >>> And at the beginning of writing, this RFC seems not to assume t= hat the Min-SE header is changed through the transaction. > >>> Needless to say, if the Min-SE header is not changed through th= e transaction, UAC and UAS have a shared view for Min-SE. > >>> So that, the answer to your question is the same as the reason = UAC MUST add the maximum Min-SE header to the request. > >>> If UAC needs not to know theshared view for Min-SE, it needs no= t to add the maximum Min-SE. > >> Clearly proxies can change (increase) the value as they forward = the transaction. > >> > >> I don't understand why there need be any carryover of the Min-SE= value from the initial establishment to subsequent refresh transactions.= Or even why Min-SE would be used at all in refresh requests. It should n= ot be needed as long as S-E is preserved and the proxies don't change the= ir mind about their needs. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Paul > >> > >> > >>> Regards, > >>> Shinji > >>> > >>> On 2018/10/10 13:54, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > >>>> On 10/9/18 11:02 PM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> According to the current RFC, only the UAS knows the maximum = Min-SEC finally determined. > >>>>> In order to advertise this information to proxies and the UAC= , I think that the UAS may copy the Min-SE from the 2xx response request.= > >>>> Why is it necessary for the proxies and UAC to know this as lo= ng as they know the S-E that has been determined? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Paul > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> sipcore mailing list > >>>> sipcore@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > >>> > >>> > > > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > =20 > --------------E36B5EE3FA559B7391ED503B Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="pEpkey.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pEpkey.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBFusy3sBCADqvitDP+hZDEMDFt5LJxIxGISdSsPuBBRIn4hLJkiiUAO0MitA 4LQKtnk9QhYkEiom4oBj+B/Vd5rlB5nuWKY+lLscdJa45TwXrho5J57GQJJoIok+ HW3QVb6evKShoJygr9DgOSo/WC0vHTwFgtm+ewwK6Ac5XwQzNma4t8CWNebacip1 z5sQ4n1kttBj9CL+jYXO1ZeQdUZztZaDm49Gp+THMcOSbRmVjQlglaP2RWzXwzSz 7WPbcQEN541EGfOgtxmEO/64QLaRAoIFSngYpFS4OTZeP++jImBYA304Ys7CfpuQ NaXzrJlxeUbFz98UE3PqzgnNwtNpo73Bz3CfABEBAAG0Jk9LVU1VUkEgU2hpbmpp IDxpZXRmLnNoaW5qaUBnbWFpbC5jb20+iQFUBBMBCAA+FiEEEAG3Kg+o2hwQyjJZ NMxDsu+hDJAFAlusy30CGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AA CgkQNMxDsu+hDJAp0AgAgI26qCq1+cXQ+gi3hhcxK8ahL1GZvQtyt6x+tP4OB31w 0fK0/UuHIfR40MKOgxuQeQm1W0MDWUMsIwf3H9bDdlqrA5BlTIS90XV+Px84RHeD /8cgE+JLhOISeiZoxkbc6NXhyAzfScRUqW0hiGrBwePG9lxRja6Bse6sO0Hmaf3O 7MG7tZTO7tTEvrg/sgW91lwvANuwE9LjcUR4u+5q0H056VRlQ7Nd8yE2WePijSZI Zyn58/nmul/xuBvSCaURxAOkmlTxW+zLnaaHI7Go0Suq5ZnzAuAWxydNNPfuvHZz 3REaLyOcuyRyZ25D6iHN22mUM2GivlDyDQEpro5/Y7kBDQRbrMt8AQgA0JHMjIq/ 4Urgc8kANhAEXkJ7wcQC03BwJkOz+XKuquMKyNQhJgg76RtvtLQ57d3If9WCwlMF IK3QwJ4dZdsYubNTZSX2jEP69jrxqO1tZWz5Ky3zJj45J8RAOanuHwCUhlONaiik 0+DVWJnnnPyy2MKk+KHdvt5SJk35+Otu/mUjr5Zpnc1/HgbSfsLnt81X8JJEwfqc UCeFyiFIiQy83nBPV0YQlT++xNK3ITtkE23Oi27I1hueT7Rhh6zA5qjG8Vtour+A 7NsrOwRVe+Rp1axtdATZZrEpn/lCmfsqE5MIL3+6ETdxdpBr/XzCHk42+dUtF2FO a+IWSL+ncef5HQARAQABiQE8BBgBCAAmFiEEEAG3Kg+o2hwQyjJZNMxDsu+hDJAF Alusy3wCGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQNMxDsu+hDJAj4gf/YTLO3HZ9AvU6EiVF3WHKw2Di 7oFofhcPk3K6KTo08gZxg+4gJ3dwFsgPD8v/6wHGraFoqx5bIXLb4B2L+D0pLInv lmrRd16tRV8U3RFoRjdXQldgLr6Xk0YsZZR8zXEmnKJpAsFb+lg7k2zEFYLT40NC 5CcqWIQeN3KKVmhDsoVf+peGj4/5x5JT0hCwIAJ20H4jwUF1izrVUtV3caqbhACA 7xHEZ9k2pEdWxP3Dfxf9yBU6QZnpoj60sr1tSlNT8S0zqKE/GKcLrRbu5zIOdduP qW8IXu9xNDtBKgtqmq6q1cKxF/9EGduqagvoADaHnjZZ6yG5Mx3hayQ5yhOwKw=3D=3D =3DdwUx -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --------------E36B5EE3FA559B7391ED503B-- From nobody Fri Oct 12 08:37:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2B4130E2A for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:37:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4qayMZfX5nBa for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53EF4130E1F for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id Awk7g5OOM209yAzVagaccd; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 15:37:46 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1539358666; bh=ZDHL9Lgucdg0WDB+nGvBYxvqpkxgtk7QN7Vg3uAm9C4=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=fScOG9JGjIxuS11/nGVHEaSRkTkvMWy7izlcYV7bi1+l62Uo6Skup9IyeYKgpHnvM ox13KKQZjbSAsIm5jIf0bnloHrZffgeC0SQObWTe+Tyd3ToZvj9bJqYfppM/3UpFtM MPuybQJ3yMbGna4wRX1Ex23CVFzreO3HDnkn07T+1sAMHcVJ2agqAbz3IS4loC20Zp 5pU/3DD96mq5DCTu/VblNhvIU6I5osvgm1ltoOt3QapTiNMlebiwqiKSf/ZtiB0pku iIqgWVQkgbWbwsCpn8Hdu6gV81FGcFL6GwTs+qUoJze4Wf/WTC2tEx+gf6I5VH2yYT 4dyDVOquCENow== Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain ([24.62.227.142]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id AzVZgbeh6N2GLAzVagQ8Qy; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 15:37:46 +0000 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <8cb025f1-f9de-29fa-9df6-7603bcc185a4@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 11:37:45 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfAUaCmKmQInF1dcOjTT3/XBOgL3ep17THmSAkiPtC7sUpjlun1V3iB1B8InSkDR2GUByPJU+hlDCh+rnlxK6i5b4Bu9oUxDoq4KU8mzv+29cMi4T9yO3 DhupIwlY7ZB8bVaginT9C1LYxXPQ9v2d8Bh9SmvVoqqosn1mCKhgHc9SXiE1qrmuwgTh2gM79I7lww== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-19 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 15:37:51 -0000 That resolves my comments. Thanks, Paul On 10/12/18 5:55 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > Based on Paul’s WGLC comments I have submitted a new version (-19) of > draft-sip-push. > > The following changes were done: > > * ABNF > * UA text regarding binding expiration (in case of multiple bindings) > and usage of PRIDs associated with other UAs > > The following pull request was merged for the new version: > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/27 > > A big Thank You to Paul for his review! > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > From nobody Fri Oct 12 14:20:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A87A0126BED; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:20:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b3yQhInX-zRg; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A192126DBF; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.27] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w9CLKKNg067068 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Oct 2018 16:20:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.27] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <1E205402-6605-4754-8D94-ED0E7B13543E@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_229CBDB4-7845-486F-86D2-9EF122E5B7BA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 16:20:19 -0500 In-Reply-To: <19565_1539243246_5BBEFCEE_19565_165_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E3C050@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Cc: "A. Jean Mahoney" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" To: marianne.mohali@orange.com References: <19565_1539243246_5BBEFCEE_19565_165_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E3C050@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] New version (-04) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter (NEW v-05) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 21:20:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_229CBDB4-7845-486F-86D2-9EF122E5B7BA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think this version is ready for IETF Last call. I will request that = shortly. Thanks! Ben. > On Oct 11, 2018, at 2:34 AM, = wrote: >=20 > Hi Jean, >=20 > Thanks for your suggestions. I have updated the draft (v-05) to take = them on board. >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-param= eter/ >=20 > Best regards, > Marianne >=20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : A. Jean Mahoney [mailto:mahoney@nostrum.com] > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 10 octobre 2018 18:20 > =C3=80 : MOHALI Marianne IMT/OLN; sipcore-chairs@ietf.org; = sipcore@ietf.org > Cc : Ben Campbell > Objet : Re: New version (-04) of = draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter >=20 > Hi Marianne, >=20 > Thanks for incorporating Ben's feedback. I have some suggested wording > improvements on the latest changes. >=20 > Section 1.1, p 1 - >=20 > Current: >=20 > A session > case is an information indicating the status of the session in > which the served user is involved (originating, terminating..). >=20 > Suggested: >=20 > A session > case is metadata that captures the status of the session of a > served user: whether the served user is registered or not, and > whether the session originates or terminates with the served > user. >=20 >=20 > Section 1.3, p 1 - >=20 > Current: > A filter > criteria is a user profile information that determines whether a > particular initial request needs to be sent to a particular AS. >=20 >=20 > Suggested: >=20 > Filter criteria is information in the user profile that > determines whether an initial request is sent to a > particular AS. >=20 >=20 > Section 5, bullet 2 - >=20 > Current: >=20 > o In [RFC5502], except for security reasons, it is not to clearly > stated what to do with the received P-Served-User header field > when a call is diverted to another destination. This document > dealing with this specific use case, highlights that several > possibilities exist: the S-CSCF could store the previous > "regstate" value and decide that the same value applies, or the > "regstate" may not be relevant after a diverting service and > removed, or the regstate could be combined with the orig-cdiv > session case to provide different services if the served user is > registered or unregistered. These choices are implementation > dependent. >=20 >=20 > Suggested: >=20 > o [RFC5502] does not clearly state what to do with the received > P-Served-User header field when a call is diverted to another > destination. This document highlights that there are several > ways of handling the P-Served-User header field: the S-CSCF = could > store the previous "regstate" value and decide that the same = value > applies; or the "regstate" may no longer be relevant after a > diverting service so the S-CSCF removes it; or the regstate = could > be combined with the orig-cdiv session case to provide different > services depending on whether the served user is registered or > unregistered. These choices are implementation dependent. >=20 >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Jean >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 9/24/18 3:32 PM, marianne.mohali@orange.com wrote: >> Hi all, >>=20 >> I've submitted a new version of the draft after Ben's review. >>=20 >> Main changes between -03 and -04 are: >>=20 >> -Addition of short definitions for "session case" and "filter = criteria" >>=20 >> -IANA considerations section is moved down. >>=20 >> -security section is completed with more explanations on the trust >> domain aspect for the header. >>=20 >> -Editorials >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>=20 >> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-param= eter/ >>=20 >> Best regards, >>=20 >> Marianne >>=20 >> = __________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations = confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous = avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les = messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, = deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >>=20 >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or = privileged information that may be protected by law; >> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender = and delete this message and its attachments. >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. >> Thank you. >>=20 >=20 > = __________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations = confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez = recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les = messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, = deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or = privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and = delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. >=20 --Apple-Mail=_229CBDB4-7845-486F-86D2-9EF122E5B7BA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlvBEBMACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A0QTg//VTekJ7pk+o93XoRg+h0iLy3g6Az7JhHIBOlIYLLGJWbEABc34PpH4o/A VcD9iyKv7aDuUue2zDoSoWADgsJB9GvrWA9fVJii2EHAPOMnllH6Fb5wUoOVT23d kl7FSberCSADTa4MOwu7hnQVkncMU3cNwa9E1u66Ue5rUooRidSwbkw8P83wgbxk DZBZ9pa3zHkLaAR3YdRJBiKv4AY82wYI1NSjHtkptPY7FJuYNiBB7N1A6xyrUWK6 ItPR1Qzg2ZqBZk5K/kYP8q5OZcs8brgocLbFqraRJaKCcuu5FMPZz577pFyCDOIg CugVA2g0IKHSrhI0pw2YYum1cGS1gjzzs5aJdrxH5a1ZQHusWyeD/qOT4riGZw1v Sr1jMmehpBskmEWCUaIyzqK7kHnGyYjtSuWK7MAT4E/5qT5xbcKkevyjAXPUl1j9 Xd6qjI3GJmS4+Yy0ulgY9v2E2iHGTwuQiPLeZVmGneda/7GflFIv91tb5SMrnxXA 2IW3h7Y+wpXsuMWJ3BpX9+fq4JsAhJH6vxW4fXo05jdhlnFbG/6ulcL2JugphtlI ayanaNel5o9o91GnEQ2uMLnS6gk4frksy919MNrXxW8fKG8EAqGaIraLmGk8cEmT 4HxmvwSEYTSw7Kd90nSFlGt09OGIhV4CHcD4z6K2MoKR+W5ywcQ= =f3dx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_229CBDB4-7845-486F-86D2-9EF122E5B7BA-- From nobody Fri Oct 12 14:51:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E699D126BED; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:51:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.86.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: ben@nostrum.com, Jean Mahoney , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, sipcore@ietf.org, mahoney@nostrum.com, draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter@ietf.org Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Message-ID: <153938108484.29209.11621866913569416480.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 14:51:24 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Last Call: (A P-Served-User Header Field Parameter for Originating CDIV session case in Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)) to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 21:51:25 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG (sipcore) to consider the following document: - 'A P-Served-User Header Field Parameter for Originating CDIV session case in Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)' as Informational RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2018-10-26. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract The P-Served-User header field is used to convey the identity of the served user and the session case that applies to this particular communication session and application invocation. This document updates RFC5502 by defining a new P-Served-User header field parameter, "orig-cdiv". The parameter conveys the session case used by a proxy when handling an originating session after Call Diversion (CDIV) services have been invoked for the served user. This document also fixes the ABNF in RFC 5502 and provides more guidance for using the P-Served-User header field in IP networks. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I am planning to organize an unofficial phone call to discuss the session t= imer work. Obviously, no official decisions can be made on the phone call, = and the main reason is to make sure everyone has a common understanding on = issues and suggestions that have been discussed. Please indicate your availability on Doodle: https://doodle.com/poll/px84vfsg77tyth7r Note #1: If you want to change/clarify some procedures, I ask you to descri= be it as in GitHub issue, or at least in a dedicated e-mail on the list. https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sessiontimer-race/issues (Let me know if you have any issues with GitHub) Note #2: The purpose of the deliverable is to clarify procedures and to fix= bugs caused by the current RFC. If you want to re-design some procedures j= ust because you think it would be better, this is NOT the right deliverable= . Regards, Christer --_000_VI1PR07MB4782C89004C6AF65D8D237CA93E30VI1PR07MB4782eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --_000_VI1PR07MB4782C89004C6AF65D8D237CA93E30VI1PR07MB4782eurp_-- From nobody Sun Oct 14 17:10:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65601286E3 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:10:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.69 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.69 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=standardstrack.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k5wnYEVtk4tV for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz221.inmotionhosting.com (biz221.inmotionhosting.com [23.235.223.233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2263F126DBF for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:10:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=standardstrack.com; s=default; h=Message-Id:In-Reply-To:To:References:Date: Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=QxlHpG5JsN6RYc6bqoy6owmilwO7NaNz1XvG9R3Dvkw=; b=d+D6JNlHFDtY0qV9b1VuUsnS/ 5/Myp/y/vkB8nNbLcFf/84kqd8b5Uxq5c88jZw6h6NNO36go7Sm2uqk0tAkG9Uas4VQnmim5/oXjo qoMlitT5MvRAJRh4f/kYKez40SiUa4nZYOxIT16xY7a1pPSaEa5NKFlzUA6kI8Ha3oelI=; Received: from [68.100.196.217] (port=50276 helo=[192.168.10.26]) by biz221.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gBqSh-000hJu-Bd for sipcore@ietf.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:10:31 -0700 From: Eric Burger Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EA7A8F31-ABD4-4962-B805-214174CC083C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 20:10:16 -0400 References: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> To: sipcore@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> Message-Id: <4C813BDF-CFB4-463C-B993-D9610A94F28E@standardstrack.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz221.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: eburger+standardstrack.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Authenticated-Sender: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: eburger@standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard *VS XCARD* X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:10:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EA7A8F31-ABD4-4962-B805-214174CC083C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Any thoughts on vCard vs xCard as a marshaling format for address card = information? The benefit of vCard is it has been around for ages and there are lots = of implementations and it is ubiquitous in the enterprise computing = world. The drawback of vCard is writing a canonicalization standard will = literally be over a hundred pages. The benefit of xCard is we can use XML Signatures which has standards = already available for canonicalizing XML documents, like xCards. My question: WHAT IS THE UBIQUITY OF xCard? I have recently seen some SIP-related work (VRS/ITRS) that favors xCard = over vCard. Is this a new trend or an outlier? Thanks, Eric > On Sep 6, 2018, at 5:12 PM, Eric Burger = wrote: >=20 > I realized that vCards have no integrity protection whatsoever, making = them a questionable vehicle for something that has a potential for = abuse. >=20 > I checked with the RAI ADs and calext chairs, and one option is to = build secure vCards. There is some independent work already begun in = that space that we can piggy-back on. >=20 > Another alternative is to add new headers to SIP to convey whom to = contact to remediate blocked calls. >=20 > My inclination is to fix vCards, as that would be generally useful and = there is already some modest demand for it. It would broaden the = implementation base which should be a good thing for us. >=20 > Does anyone on the list *NOT* want to go the vCard route and instead = create new SIP headers? Does anyone have a better idea? Note if we go = the SIP header route, these new headers would need corresponding JWT=E2=80= =99s as they have to be secured with a traceable signature authority = chain. --Apple-Mail=_EA7A8F31-ABD4-4962-B805-214174CC083C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEfEc/N7T7IfiAuDEHDDCGh758rskFAlvD2ugACgkQDDCGh758 rsk+Hw//TJbrSZvf8awh3Ji2ySUiqKNdmE2pSl19tRtcV9K1zFlBcT7xJLtKUI44 vpFhB5PfrwaOWwGc2vvkWYcI9gH50pLQ+9S4/UGRtrVlyFMp6wVW5JvtIVbFa2Vk EmsQ0DiqsJJOZHwnNMkAHnuxGgx1xrNRNfI43Nuu2QIKfkF6C9kswuT9TkPn/Ahq CHdgV41wouXSdlMyOOB3hGq82QdKZGzrU8T/XnS2vTdssDATkqPjMMeof12Tj8h8 RiXuug4sMuhs7SGtTMFVZOKVvlsbOg9OPE++obsN7pteItV0PYeDPHZ1S4g52YPS iQxQX4R0WtJelTC8n60KkX+VeCGPG6R+Pf4YPAyJnC5qC4ZCVJR3X18dJ2hQ8C+n ylqqObvmWtehgZNKfqmEuExHsEeCNHtDLXD+l3z6HSCNaLxU0EUYkLX56TfSn9kZ kR1RPma1prri4W/k6WChnNJrXs30RVtmKo/CCSswGRjBmhxIAhyPwsRlv91pnoOc ughlo+P930N47SMtemaoq61guWL8tKsbW+dh4IPk0R+cSIE/cvOy2FSR+mnR2pcW vbySZLtE/63H6bCpJxapiBb0b/tkYbVaVHPznNDaVHI5V3SwYzMRjfOOcd1MfSBb x0NyvvWYGFJRbgp1Qsrb3k4940/DpEqSYdo3dLf3vjQpnkHd7RQ= =D4UQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_EA7A8F31-ABD4-4962-B805-214174CC083C-- From nobody Sun Oct 14 17:13:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA96D1286E3 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:13:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.69 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.69 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=standardstrack.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id diRMQbFY9G9j for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz221.inmotionhosting.com (biz221.inmotionhosting.com [23.235.223.233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B412A12777C for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:13:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=standardstrack.com; s=default; h=To:Date:Message-Id:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=l11X93Tx0TUB/hXSho6GA6jyyov6ZIZnDYRE/RxWD4o=; b=SQM0jKe5Dzq9h/rexHDMS1TJ1e 5/J3ceAvQyWzcIA2C8jj43PMJ19zgBH89b/oasdQ5MgxOhu/RlnYPSyzr8i74uATXm1f68VRm5rNL 8u7O2Ew/ycktjFdwjWFUmSPTMkdx7noZf71NQqRlVzewyGcKDsZkUBCBSFIm+ciQ/Cz4=; Received: from [68.100.196.217] (port=50325 helo=[192.168.10.26]) by biz221.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gBqVd-000kgK-TP for sipcore@ietf.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:13:31 -0700 From: Eric Burger Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8772FBB8-C978-4898-969E-91F957B042C5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <91924AD9-1AD6-41EA-9273-16F132794A7F@standardstrack.com> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 20:13:18 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz221.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: eburger+standardstrack.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Authenticated-Sender: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: eburger@standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Note on sipcore-rejected and CNAM X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:13:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8772FBB8-C978-4898-969E-91F957B042C5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If anyone is wondering, there is ABSOLUTELY NO RELATIONSHIP between the = mechanism in sipcore-rejected and anything I can think of relating to = caller name presentation (a.k.a. CNAM). Those IMHO are two entirely = different beasts. The former relates with how to find an entity that = blocked a session invitation. I.e., it contains addressing information. = The later relates with how to present a human-comprehendible string = representing the identity of the caller. That is a totally different = beast. --Apple-Mail=_8772FBB8-C978-4898-969E-91F957B042C5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEfEc/N7T7IfiAuDEHDDCGh758rskFAlvD254ACgkQDDCGh758 rsnsjw//aVjafHDFG3y/AMydjvQj12ZwB6LKG5GUVotd6ctni5xBq5DmYoQ4OcGv qLZoiy7TR2+QovtVUtxWrbH7Cf+B2VlYgjMTULGmtQw3yEdHre+oqaWUmCo43q3V oBwTqlL95fDPO98+vM1gWqTPj1GQF/MmjmKNhxpQgQCCysn6CmsHH9uwwgBwKVfq yL0ahKhfUAIL9/b6ggCOwZjd53ookybmJbUo9nz2QKXgbkrrmJn4Mq9589YNtA0l MTknpi0mlFiypGz5S7u89SEq9wdFKD8qAaD9IQ2QpcAn44hFxIQf/ud48k+6qzVQ AurrMSnZP1434hMMHWofe8imh6f3+slZ7jE77b8I5NH/GRf+97SErB3ZqSu0G2qz gpoMi85FN7cbbHNpKsakyy5N7gAP0qgxM8ooUeco8c93qEDg7r9UTTPU9fu4KJg6 e73C7wM43Ti360eLGQLR7N4DDdsUZNyA2oQRDwCkafLf/NNCRwrRmDV/0Q3rR0U3 zq7GHyN4r65f8BxHWQDvodQhSirwzo9UmyCc+F95lnG5iRnNboxTJkoftWESYI50 kk8dGTWiAe7fnlZCPBmCf+Izu2EAEgh8E6qO1h3HM1o1B1HWW1av2mT7ddJdQNhn 7nLiIa2LhFuyFdhQcy1jrOdgjmzvlUCXu3vxZwcQs5OskpnL3IU= =hUZb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_8772FBB8-C978-4898-969E-91F957B042C5-- From nobody Sun Oct 14 17:38:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 670651286E3 for ; 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Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [100.101.59.33] ([1.144.225.100]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x13-v6sm13942726pge.13.2018.10.14.17.38.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: James Winterbottom X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16A366) In-Reply-To: <4C813BDF-CFB4-463C-B993-D9610A94F28E@standardstrack.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:38:47 +1100 Cc: sipcore@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <781559A0-DA8F-47C7-993D-B27801374D4B@gmail.com> References: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> <4C813BDF-CFB4-463C-B993-D9610A94F28E@standardstrack.com> To: Eric Burger Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard *VS XCARD* X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:38:55 -0000 If you are only after address data why not look at geopriv civic representat= ion? =46rom experience profiling XCard will be almost as bad doing it for vC= ard Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Oct 2018, at 11:10 am, Eric Burger wrot= e: >=20 > Any thoughts on vCard vs xCard as a marshaling format for address card inf= ormation? >=20 > The benefit of vCard is it has been around for ages and there are lots of i= mplementations and it is ubiquitous in the enterprise computing world. The d= rawback of vCard is writing a canonicalization standard will literally be ov= er a hundred pages. >=20 > The benefit of xCard is we can use XML Signatures which has standards alre= ady available for canonicalizing XML documents, like xCards. >=20 > My question: WHAT IS THE UBIQUITY OF xCard? >=20 > I have recently seen some SIP-related work (VRS/ITRS) that favors xCard ov= er vCard. Is this a new trend or an outlier? >=20 > Thanks, > Eric >=20 >> On Sep 6, 2018, at 5:12 PM, Eric Burger wrot= e: >>=20 >> I realized that vCards have no integrity protection whatsoever, making th= em a questionable vehicle for something that has a potential for abuse. >>=20 >> I checked with the RAI ADs and calext chairs, and one option is to build s= ecure vCards. There is some independent work already begun in that space tha= t we can piggy-back on. >>=20 >> Another alternative is to add new headers to SIP to convey whom to contac= t to remediate blocked calls. >>=20 >> My inclination is to fix vCards, as that would be generally useful and th= ere is already some modest demand for it. It would broaden the implementatio= n base which should be a good thing for us. >>=20 >> Does anyone on the list *NOT* want to go the vCard route and instead crea= te new SIP headers? Does anyone have a better idea? Note if we go the SIP he= ader route, these new headers would need corresponding JWT=E2=80=99s as they= have to be secured with a traceable signature authority chain. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Sun Oct 14 18:54:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6706130DC8 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:54:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.679 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.679 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=standardstrack.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NgKy1mO5kwJn for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz221.inmotionhosting.com (biz221.inmotionhosting.com [23.235.223.233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35641128D0C for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:54:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=standardstrack.com; s=default; h=References:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:Date:Subject: Mime-Version:Content-Type:Message-Id:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Wq1SxBP54HcT/JQL2PRRaXvDjGhPLw95hbdgU5q6dUQ=; b=l21lXWO6Wjkwfilidc6f9BIyj 2cJjg/fw0IsVEA+5rBIiPdMvGdBDsEvcyyYmET09FNWeSXB87mMKU4BdzPBxg5enoE4AZguCgH2OF cOA09bBConntwLwxVJh55GCMJ+z0HUITg5C+B7ubGd49xOs0GDXDXKR2StleKVk8l0abc=; Received: from [68.100.196.217] (port=52803 helo=[192.168.10.26]) by biz221.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gBs5I-002rGs-Rw; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:54:30 -0700 From: Eric Burger Message-Id: <2F263A16-8CF7-41F0-8669-DC7C4928963F@standardstrack.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BA37FEE2-916B-4EC5-B3F9-A6A215580432"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 21:54:15 -0400 In-Reply-To: <781559A0-DA8F-47C7-993D-B27801374D4B@gmail.com> Cc: sipcore@ietf.org To: James Winterbottom References: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> <4C813BDF-CFB4-463C-B993-D9610A94F28E@standardstrack.com> <781559A0-DA8F-47C7-993D-B27801374D4B@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz221.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: eburger+standardstrack.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Authenticated-Sender: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: eburger@standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard *VS XCARD* X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 01:54:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BA37FEE2-916B-4EC5-B3F9-A6A215580432 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Not really a civic address but a point of contact, like an email = address, telephone (SIP) number, or Web site. I=E2=80=99m sure if = someone wanted to be obstructive, a postal mail address would do. > On Oct 14, 2018, at 8:38 PM, James Winterbottom = wrote: >=20 > If you are only after address data why not look at geopriv civic = representation? =46rom experience profiling XCard will be almost as bad = doing it for vCard >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On 15 Oct 2018, at 11:10 am, Eric Burger = wrote: >>=20 >> Any thoughts on vCard vs xCard as a marshaling format for address = card information? >>=20 >> The benefit of vCard is it has been around for ages and there are = lots of implementations and it is ubiquitous in the enterprise computing = world. The drawback of vCard is writing a canonicalization standard will = literally be over a hundred pages. >>=20 >> The benefit of xCard is we can use XML Signatures which has standards = already available for canonicalizing XML documents, like xCards. >>=20 >> My question: WHAT IS THE UBIQUITY OF xCard? >>=20 >> I have recently seen some SIP-related work (VRS/ITRS) that favors = xCard over vCard. Is this a new trend or an outlier? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Eric >>=20 >>> On Sep 6, 2018, at 5:12 PM, Eric Burger = wrote: >>>=20 >>> I realized that vCards have no integrity protection whatsoever, = making them a questionable vehicle for something that has a potential = for abuse. >>>=20 >>> I checked with the RAI ADs and calext chairs, and one option is to = build secure vCards. There is some independent work already begun in = that space that we can piggy-back on. >>>=20 >>> Another alternative is to add new headers to SIP to convey whom to = contact to remediate blocked calls. >>>=20 >>> My inclination is to fix vCards, as that would be generally useful = and there is already some modest demand for it. It would broaden the = implementation base which should be a good thing for us. >>>=20 >>> Does anyone on the list *NOT* want to go the vCard route and instead = create new SIP headers? Does anyone have a better idea? Note if we go = the SIP header route, these new headers would need corresponding JWT=E2=80= =99s as they have to be secured with a traceable signature authority = chain. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> sipcore mailing list >> sipcore@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore --Apple-Mail=_BA37FEE2-916B-4EC5-B3F9-A6A215580432 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEfEc/N7T7IfiAuDEHDDCGh758rskFAlvD80cACgkQDDCGh758 rslOIw/+Ij94H4YEfyjb14swPeXjgGNUEWZeQxTvzfsIkbmXgRjCqXMQbzLSCRVQ LPWTCUHjPJpq3CXYhOIotE7eK7CL0LTZNUCWF58aEpUGWMLi8bJ0gc/Jat2IxH6A lU6KW4vFxShNSwOu8oL2ytWB6cW7U22NelEdOkrg3z4HcMWlPGnNcXInIHo31Z2F HWyPnyMORlCjCmgPdJRO94V50i1SbvmG9KYAYmEs9yiBKJbLF7FjiC0SwfRUGhoc DsXJYZhSoAuHYbrFNZa5CXUtkfXVx1wTNM82R/tHAlakowKfgQMhenhs/Sc8s6iH r41LddI+E/UpgLsse6lnOImEemoLtp5JL4ZrR8gv9J7ivzDl4xy5gwL4G8Ni04Qe uZ0bAeNjusWdrYq8NA1i3CELgfm/fv37XDBDrl3C4ZleblS+MYUtlWWLEWWDYBy0 DYrCG7RL/Ic/balluQQsCfz5//DQkvIXyAF9Sy9BoP8pFdosPNYH50Blsnp8GxGW dCRZLx5trByMuXz6Reln3Vpk20EAC5NC2aE8bKzb4pA3za+cPG0qg65QKudW8+7n URtRCqr1owV9SKsYSsYTLWhpnVYDwtEiy7B5t86YOtB3eXcPyEadIYz8jCmclhO4 EMfpHbjA4me0ZtvuwJbRC32SX++VeFPfh+bHqqupNQQHCmDMDbo= =dAE8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_BA37FEE2-916B-4EC5-B3F9-A6A215580432-- From nobody Mon Oct 15 02:59:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8680130E71 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 02:59:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KyHbCTwI4a3Z for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 02:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com (mail-pf1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0860B130E46 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 02:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x433.google.com with SMTP id g21-v6so2419252pfi.7 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 02:59:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=FDnVoyTIpn6io/zC29uXAJ5YmOZZIOYKOKbFZLcsvrM=; b=IdHL3VI9EIhyTEB7goyARNE+3demL8eFBRFAREQnET70UNZ67OK8ozrcb5uXgaSWou NrFTzH4CMjzZJzjCIP8U5r/M3D4O9GkldWNBQZPDeKW/rq7ZzHVxZqOagxTzwWlBpJz/ t7/pw1x8wkYGSmecqYTWw2JBjUQ59RA5bD3+ndzza2/6BO6Vqqx1LC5xx9pu9fQ/NdnN YyCHtbaJp0YlKaaqGsKWdffcqLrlcK8jr9TFKf+GCJN0T6p1uDClrpCEOhRU1l50wVjs g7rFV6iUuJMn2cUSCLi6VS4CISNGD9U3K+HkhY14bAaTZyzEa6fisDZJzcknSJKfskdX sfmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=FDnVoyTIpn6io/zC29uXAJ5YmOZZIOYKOKbFZLcsvrM=; b=S9VWvLEDE0Rj6zKyqkR3+T558O949VZ8wHe/Z3I8r9hSVG+yqxRsFHjfxVxiYg1Gau Uem+o2Nyy0lealepto7ML/JLfKTB+ZY0x9bjgyGIXMZkTw7u1nWuywZtx2lLxpJSIfSv /CuMqJR0kpXA4XODGHqWB7+AD9OohWTBq+2UnhWajXjbEjCJh2yeglGsfDVZdkfso5QK 2ZcdpbvgpeWkMVUaKluv5lnd1riqE7bI4GORiJQOsp/vk2ATlnM+TWOlnJLtkqxt7eTb CerJ5VcfMNbOIwal3Ymj6cbEGDTe4/6PiGc3rT9p6EPUNE7otEdYNf1PDKj5M/WrcqX0 TlqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoimSq7VbDtnQYLRRIEf03/9+foVnqkwVLDxtLSxHhxxSvRgTJYU KLzI+NIa95gJpYHiWBRcvyFyudrK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV600Qer7wcf4TmhymlDTNCUf33GVTU/u1WpvnmoetUjw9BD9vCSmOpiVZ2HCkWCoJQmDRA7xZg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6ec4:: with SMTP id j187-v6mr15617463pgc.3.1539597557369; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 02:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:8000:1054:d300:d907:5b7b:ada8:e822? ([2001:8000:1054:d300:d907:5b7b:ada8:e822]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q24-v6sm11905584pff.83.2018.10.15.02.59.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Oct 2018 02:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: <2F263A16-8CF7-41F0-8669-DC7C4928963F@standardstrack.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 20:59:14 +1100 Cc: sipcore@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <51D80BB8-431F-4EE4-ADE3-AD55D962F6E3@gmail.com> References: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> <4C813BDF-CFB4-463C-B993-D9610A94F28E@standardstrack.com> <781559A0-DA8F-47C7-993D-B27801374D4B@gmail.com> <2F263A16-8CF7-41F0-8669-DC7C4928963F@standardstrack.com> To: Eric Burger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard *VS XCARD* X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:59:23 -0000 Ah okay. Heavy profile of xCard may work then. I profiled it very heavily in TS = 103 478 but still had interoperability issues. xCard is used a lot in the Additional Data side of the NG9-1-1 specs, = but my experience there has not been good with it. Not sure how well = used outside that area it is. Cheers James > On 15 Oct 2018, at 12:54 pm, Eric Burger = wrote: >=20 > Not really a civic address but a point of contact, like an email = address, telephone (SIP) number, or Web site. I=E2=80=99m sure if = someone wanted to be obstructive, a postal mail address would do. >=20 >> On Oct 14, 2018, at 8:38 PM, James Winterbottom = wrote: >>=20 >> If you are only after address data why not look at geopriv civic = representation? =46rom experience profiling XCard will be almost as bad = doing it for vCard >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >>> On 15 Oct 2018, at 11:10 am, Eric Burger = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Any thoughts on vCard vs xCard as a marshaling format for address = card information? >>>=20 >>> The benefit of vCard is it has been around for ages and there are = lots of implementations and it is ubiquitous in the enterprise computing = world. The drawback of vCard is writing a canonicalization standard will = literally be over a hundred pages. >>>=20 >>> The benefit of xCard is we can use XML Signatures which has = standards already available for canonicalizing XML documents, like = xCards. >>>=20 >>> My question: WHAT IS THE UBIQUITY OF xCard? >>>=20 >>> I have recently seen some SIP-related work (VRS/ITRS) that favors = xCard over vCard. Is this a new trend or an outlier? >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Eric >>>=20 >>>> On Sep 6, 2018, at 5:12 PM, Eric Burger = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> I realized that vCards have no integrity protection whatsoever, = making them a questionable vehicle for something that has a potential = for abuse. >>>>=20 >>>> I checked with the RAI ADs and calext chairs, and one option is to = build secure vCards. There is some independent work already begun in = that space that we can piggy-back on. >>>>=20 >>>> Another alternative is to add new headers to SIP to convey whom to = contact to remediate blocked calls. >>>>=20 >>>> My inclination is to fix vCards, as that would be generally useful = and there is already some modest demand for it. It would broaden the = implementation base which should be a good thing for us. >>>>=20 >>>> Does anyone on the list *NOT* want to go the vCard route and = instead create new SIP headers? Does anyone have a better idea? Note if = we go the SIP header route, these new headers would need corresponding = JWT=E2=80=99s as they have to be secured with a traceable signature = authority chain. >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sipcore mailing list >>> sipcore@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore >=20 From nobody Mon Oct 15 12:00:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E65F130EB4 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:00:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DS7h7sRxqQvJ for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x631.google.com (mail-pl1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::631]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7BE4130EE9 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x631.google.com with SMTP id v5-v6so9733787plz.13 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:59:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=pyzkpd+oz/AUyyWOm9Os9f2Ds1Ko/1InLL9lB2Zhzp0=; b=ZF96C8jPSiixQfdlnAPJpRtDmNQLDwJHamFzeWimS97h6DUEvHuGrwn6gQVTZ+zXF0 lOxrSt4SWu6VXjkXxcvYrsZUzsEG27Y//lUx1o+a6K5iWgBC8raFYsmuTb6on3BqoiLC 27nKLfQrim9TjsC/SJUboO0CqRyILQqEp5Kpeo1Ahk1U/nsAzCdvpVGn3tBVr/62iYBp 63OhyueaaptS3wxfJzLOjQcn4xIIKN1wvBiA0Mpwcrd9W+kUBNGSXhxvYQvxgSGMTul8 biWx7EcKfCXqjml5/hEr7jxk7GjVAmw9mSsDOJ5n83ozO0tmLKV38J9w3NNg7ma9+xmz tIUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=pyzkpd+oz/AUyyWOm9Os9f2Ds1Ko/1InLL9lB2Zhzp0=; b=r2xjUU5cF6bhdfhBovqRscLA0od2oJlnK4MMBTI46Y1pNqSTYz5hahdfa4qptJBxiU dQ87MbxXMRIRb0JVjIctsVKSgA2lGpKkE7UJ2lupBgyfB5R1jXGVxNwHJxsnfV2jjn1+ uXO6hvpN0UrOGfcWxKXhG5JmRcvWmIE4M2yL4IJlYOD7338G2KHxNDyYdH5wVEb2YbTr VlREVLs8oQ9eOIzJZXFX0dKihu4GhIeCCe/WifSWkzG9/WEsJXCfymbNsOq1+u4Td0uv moIsa9uqWeKvbeFryZzROUJi/i8PNMtlE0i/sLKAtYisx7rwe38aHyamz12tutU1qQWA PrUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohYPM23Yt0MC9jk/wI94K/MVBeHtEskNr/dZNCrXHxEYrGPsHnL UlZz5sSvsjVrvAZWwAwORSRI2w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62fng+by64App6Hw46fFooUvP4PWlm/+ru2dltSfKYX+h6BPCAqFyuM3Etzj2qPaXBYYX44aA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:a982:: with SMTP id bh2-v6mr18393754plb.193.1539629998293; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brians-mbp.lan (99-129-222-98.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net. [99.129.222.98]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u62-v6sm15851070pfu.69.2018.10.15.11.59.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) From: Brian Rosen In-Reply-To: <51D80BB8-431F-4EE4-ADE3-AD55D962F6E3@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:59:55 -0700 Cc: Eric Burger , sipcore@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9BEFF26C-8BBF-440E-8342-B921B3D4BC06@brianrosen.net> References: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> <4C813BDF-CFB4-463C-B993-D9610A94F28E@standardstrack.com> <781559A0-DA8F-47C7-993D-B27801374D4B@gmail.com> <2F263A16-8CF7-41F0-8669-DC7C4928963F@standardstrack.com> <51D80BB8-431F-4EE4-ADE3-AD55D962F6E3@gmail.com> To: James Winterbottom X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard *VS XCARD* X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:00:06 -0000 We=E2=80=99re heavily using xCards in NG9-1-1, and converting to jCards = as soon as we can for anything NENA controls. We=E2=80=99ve not had = interoperability issues requiring profiles. We just ignore fields we = don=E2=80=99t need and no one has tried sending an xCard without name, = address and phone number. OTOH, all we ever use them for are humans = contacting other humans. =20 We sign objects we need protection for, but never had to sign just an = xCard. No one wants to deal with vCards if they don=E2=80=99t have to. I=E2=80=99d have no objection to a signed jCard.=20 Brian > On Oct 15, 2018, at 2:59 AM, James Winterbottom = wrote: >=20 > Ah okay. >=20 > Heavy profile of xCard may work then. I profiled it very heavily in TS = 103 478 but still had interoperability issues. > xCard is used a lot in the Additional Data side of the NG9-1-1 specs, = but my experience there has not been good with it. Not sure how well = used outside that area it is. >=20 >=20 > Cheers > James >=20 >> On 15 Oct 2018, at 12:54 pm, Eric Burger = wrote: >>=20 >> Not really a civic address but a point of contact, like an email = address, telephone (SIP) number, or Web site. I=E2=80=99m sure if = someone wanted to be obstructive, a postal mail address would do. >>=20 >>> On Oct 14, 2018, at 8:38 PM, James Winterbottom = wrote: >>>=20 >>> If you are only after address data why not look at geopriv civic = representation? =46rom experience profiling XCard will be almost as bad = doing it for vCard >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>>=20 >>>> On 15 Oct 2018, at 11:10 am, Eric Burger = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Any thoughts on vCard vs xCard as a marshaling format for address = card information? >>>>=20 >>>> The benefit of vCard is it has been around for ages and there are = lots of implementations and it is ubiquitous in the enterprise computing = world. The drawback of vCard is writing a canonicalization standard will = literally be over a hundred pages. >>>>=20 >>>> The benefit of xCard is we can use XML Signatures which has = standards already available for canonicalizing XML documents, like = xCards. >>>>=20 >>>> My question: WHAT IS THE UBIQUITY OF xCard? >>>>=20 >>>> I have recently seen some SIP-related work (VRS/ITRS) that favors = xCard over vCard. Is this a new trend or an outlier? >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Eric >>>>=20 >>>>> On Sep 6, 2018, at 5:12 PM, Eric Burger = wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I realized that vCards have no integrity protection whatsoever, = making them a questionable vehicle for something that has a potential = for abuse. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I checked with the RAI ADs and calext chairs, and one option is to = build secure vCards. There is some independent work already begun in = that space that we can piggy-back on. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Another alternative is to add new headers to SIP to convey whom to = contact to remediate blocked calls. >>>>>=20 >>>>> My inclination is to fix vCards, as that would be generally useful = and there is already some modest demand for it. It would broaden the = implementation base which should be a good thing for us. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Does anyone on the list *NOT* want to go the vCard route and = instead create new SIP headers? Does anyone have a better idea? Note if = we go the SIP header route, these new headers would need corresponding = JWT=E2=80=99s as they have to be secured with a traceable signature = authority chain. >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sipcore mailing list >>>> sipcore@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Mon Oct 15 12:28:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D56F130F19 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:28:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=shockey.us Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LwLvdYWW7kzl for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.38.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3DB5130ECC for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw14.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.14]) by gproxy5.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A103114050F for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 13:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box462.bluehost.com ([74.220.219.62]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id C8X6gnbkavdTuC8X6g8u8Q; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 13:28:04 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=shockey.us; s=default; h=Content-transfer-encoding:Content-type:Mime-version:In-Reply-To :References:Message-ID:CC:To:From:Subject:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4o8t+zhjH7bD+yyVF9Yc0H++TW6eDA29ySYpVdIYJeI=; b=XkwBt0s5xXwZjcU2iJsUpuGWVx FXKJlX8VPXjzx9BN4HpSC/gAfIW7Nz9oAnM6J8Tj7Di4HygS6PjZ4jZRB/IqQ+R2OzQxIvY6pIAW6 0qaaLQ3Ra6ddUQ6ic/rWsMI/8; Received: from pool-100-36-47-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.36.47.17]:55069 helo=[192.168.1.156]) by box462.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gC8X6-002l3X-0c; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 13:28:04 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.11.0.180909 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 15:28:01 -0400 From: Richard Shockey To: Brian Rosen , James Winterbottom CC: , "stir@ietf.org" Message-ID: <8DEDCA11-4DA1-48A4-810F-63BF5EE68B70@shockey.us> Thread-Topic: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard *VS XCARD* References: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> <4C813BDF-CFB4-463C-B993-D9610A94F28E@standardstrack.com> <781559A0-DA8F-47C7-993D-B27801374D4B@gmail.com> <2F263A16-8CF7-41F0-8669-DC7C4928963F@standardstrack.com> <51D80BB8-431F-4EE4-ADE3-AD55D962F6E3@gmail.com> <9BEFF26C-8BBF-440E-8342-B921B3D4BC06@brianrosen.net> In-Reply-To: <9BEFF26C-8BBF-440E-8342-B921B3D4BC06@brianrosen.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box462.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - shockey.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.36.47.17 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1gC8X6-002l3X-0c X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-36-47-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([192.168.1.156]) [100.36.47.17]:55069 X-Source-Auth: richard+shockey.us X-Email-Count: 2 X-Source-Cap: c2hvY2tleXU7c2hvY2tleXU7Ym94NDYyLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard *VS XCARD* X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:28:19 -0000 To echo what Eric mentioned some of us have looked at V/X/J card representa= tion of calling name presentation data aka Advanced CNAM as one of many tech= niques that could be used as part of a suite of tools to combat robocalls an= d caller ID spoofing. Not specifically STIR related but potentially useful = especially if it could be signed as another PASSPORT. I've got lots of pret= ty pictures on how this could show up on the UA. There is interest in this.= =20 There is some resistance to this for obvious reasons. The size of the INVI= TE is already out of control and there is a reluctance on the part of some c= arriers to dip a URI at the terminating end. =20 =E2=80=94=20 Richard Shockey Shockey Consulting LLC Chairman of the Board SIP Forum www.shockey.us www.sipforum.org richardshockey.us Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter rshockey101 PSTN +1 703-593-2683 =20 =EF=BB=BFOn 10/15/18, 2:59 PM, "sipcore on behalf of Brian Rosen" wrote: We=E2=80=99re heavily using xCards in NG9-1-1, and converting to jCards as so= on as we can for anything NENA controls. We=E2=80=99ve not had interoperability i= ssues requiring profiles. We just ignore fields we don=E2=80=99t need and no one = has tried sending an xCard without name, address and phone number. OTOH, al= l we ever use them for are humans contacting other humans. =20 =20 We sign objects we need protection for, but never had to sign just an x= Card. No one wants to deal with vCards if they don=E2=80=99t have to. =20 I=E2=80=99d have no objection to a signed jCard.=20 =20 Brian =20 > On Oct 15, 2018, at 2:59 AM, James Winterbottom wrote: >=20 > Ah okay. >=20 > Heavy profile of xCard may work then. I profiled it very heavily in T= S 103 478 but still had interoperability issues. > xCard is used a lot in the Additional Data side of the NG9-1-1 specs,= but my experience there has not been good with it. Not sure how well used o= utside that area it is. >=20 >=20 > Cheers > James >=20 >> On 15 Oct 2018, at 12:54 pm, Eric Burger wrote: >>=20 >> Not really a civic address but a point of contact, like an email add= ress, telephone (SIP) number, or Web site. I=E2=80=99m sure if someone wanted to b= e obstructive, a postal mail address would do. >>=20 >>> On Oct 14, 2018, at 8:38 PM, James Winterbottom wrote: >>>=20 >>> If you are only after address data why not look at geopriv civic re= presentation? From experience profiling XCard will be almost as bad doing it= for vCard >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>>=20 >>>> On 15 Oct 2018, at 11:10 am, Eric Burger wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Any thoughts on vCard vs xCard as a marshaling format for address = card information? >>>>=20 >>>> The benefit of vCard is it has been around for ages and there are = lots of implementations and it is ubiquitous in the enterprise computing wor= ld. The drawback of vCard is writing a canonicalization standard will litera= lly be over a hundred pages. >>>>=20 >>>> The benefit of xCard is we can use XML Signatures which has standa= rds already available for canonicalizing XML documents, like xCards. >>>>=20 >>>> My question: WHAT IS THE UBIQUITY OF xCard? >>>>=20 >>>> I have recently seen some SIP-related work (VRS/ITRS) that favors = xCard over vCard. Is this a new trend or an outlier? >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Eric >>>>=20 >>>>> On Sep 6, 2018, at 5:12 PM, Eric Burger wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I realized that vCards have no integrity protection whatsoever, m= aking them a questionable vehicle for something that has a potential for abu= se. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I checked with the RAI ADs and calext chairs, and one option is t= o build secure vCards. There is some independent work already begun in that = space that we can piggy-back on. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Another alternative is to add new headers to SIP to convey whom t= o contact to remediate blocked calls. >>>>>=20 >>>>> My inclination is to fix vCards, as that would be generally usefu= l and there is already some modest demand for it. It would broaden the imple= mentation base which should be a good thing for us. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Does anyone on the list *NOT* want to go the vCard route and inst= ead create new SIP headers? Does anyone have a better idea? Note if we go th= e SIP header route, these new headers would need corresponding JWT=E2=80=99s as th= ey have to be secured with a traceable signature authority chain. >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sipcore mailing list >>>> sipcore@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore =20 _______________________________________________ sipcore mailing list sipcore@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore =20 From nobody Tue Oct 16 10:54:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE70130E25 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:53:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xPCeqOydSQXU for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B673130E2F for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unescapeable.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w9GHrqKJ073365 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:53:52 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be unescapeable.local To: sipcore@ietf.org References: From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <58ff7730-62b9-fcb9-ed95-16c4892586ff@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:53:51 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------182F80A02B8C80E13ADC845F" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-19 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:53:59 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------182F80A02B8C80E13ADC845F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've reviewed -19, and still have a few comments and questions. I'm ok if dealing with these is deferred to IETF LC, but having an answer before then will likely improve the quality of any LC reviews the document receives. 1) This document is putting tokens representing the _current_ apple and google push services into a registry. What happens if one of those companies changes the way their push service works significantly? The point of carrying around the pns-provider is to let the consumer of it know what not-specified-here thing to do with the pn-prid and pn-param (if it's not, the document needs more clarity). If that not-specified-here thing changes for a given value, the consumer is going to behave incorrectly. Should these names we're putting in for the apple and google services be versioned in some fashion? 2) The privacy treatment of 556 is still incomplete. At a minimum, the security considerations section needs to point back to the "Note" in 5.3.2 that says the "proxy operator needs to determine whether it could have privacy implications". I'm personally not convinced that we need a specific "Push Notification Failed" response. What would something _do_ with it differently than they would do with the 480 alternative already in the draft? My recommendation is to just remove 556 from the draft completely and always send the 480. If we leave 556 in, a thorough description of "could have privacy implications" needs to be added. 3) For future-proofing - right now the identifiers we put in pn-prid just happen to be minted by the push services we know in a way that fits the ABNF for a pn-prid value. What happens if one of those service providers changes, or a new service provider shows up with a prid value that syntactically won't fit in that parameter. Should we consider base64 encoding/decoding or something like it to protect against that? Nits: "upstream" and "downstream" in section 5.3.1 are undefined and a likely source of confusion. I recommend saying "a proxy between this proxy and the UA" when you say "upstream", and "a proxy that is not between the push proxy and the UA" when you say downstream. Consider pointing to the 'reg' event package for one way a proxy would be "able to retrieve" registration information in the first paragraph of section 5.2. Why is the sentence "A UA MUST NOT create bindings for other UAS (using a different PRID)." in the document? It feels like a "don't do this obviously stupid thing the protocol doesn't tell you to do." requirement, and those attract trouble. I don't see anything in the document that would mislead a UA into acting that way. Adding this might have rough edges in the future if a way to delegate the creation of bindings is found that makes sense. I recommend removing the sentence. Micro-Nits: At the end of section 6, "is wake" -> "is awake" On 10/12/18 4:55 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Hi, > > Based on Paul’s WGLC comments I have submitted a new version (-19) of > draft-sip-push. > > The following changes were done: > > * ABNF > * UA text regarding binding expiration (in case of multiple > bindings) and usage of PRIDs associated with other UAs > > The following pull request was merged for the new version: > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/27 > > A big Thank You to Paul for his review! > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore --------------182F80A02B8C80E13ADC845F Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I've reviewed -19, and still have a few comments and questions.

I'm ok if dealing with these is deferred to IETF LC, but having an answer before then will likely improve the quality of any LC reviews the document receives.

1) This document is putting tokens representing the _current_ apple and google push services into a registry. What happens if one of those companies changes the way their push service works significantly? The point of carrying around the pns-provider is to let the consumer of it know what not-specified-here thing to do with the pn-prid and pn-param (if it's not, the document needs more clarity). If that not-specified-here thing changes for a given value, the consumer is going to behave incorrectly. Should these names we're putting in for the apple and google services be versioned in some fashion?

2) The privacy treatment of 556 is still incomplete. At a minimum, the security considerations section needs to point back to the "Note" in 5.3.2 that says the "proxy operator needs to determine whether it could have privacy implications". I'm personally not convinced that we need a specific "Push Notification Failed" response. What would something _do_ with it differently than they would do with the 480 alternative already in the draft? My recommendation is to just remove 556 from the draft completely and always send the 480. If we leave 556 in, a thorough description of "could have privacy implications" needs to be added.

3) For future-proofing - right now the identifiers we put in pn-prid just happen to be minted by the push services we know in a way that fits the ABNF for a pn-prid value. What happens if one of those service providers changes, or a new service provider shows up with a prid value that syntactically won't fit in that parameter. Should we consider base64 encoding/decoding or something like it to protect against that?

Nits:

"upstream" and "downstream" in section 5.3.1 are undefined and a likely source of confusion. I recommend saying "a proxy between this proxy and the UA" when you say "upstream", and "a proxy that is not between the push proxy and the UA" when you say downstream.

Consider pointing to the 'reg' event package for one way a proxy would be "able to retrieve" registration information in the first paragraph of section 5.2.

Why is the sentence "A UA MUST NOT create bindings for other UAS (using a different PRID)." in the document? It feels like a "don't do this obviously stupid thing the protocol doesn't tell you to do." requirement, and those attract trouble. I don't see anything in the document that would mislead a UA into acting that way. Adding this might have rough edges in the future if a way to delegate the creation of bindings is found that makes sense. I recommend removing the sentence.

Micro-Nits:

At the end of section 6, "is wake" -> "is awake"



On 10/12/18 4:55 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:

Hi,

 

Based on Paul’s WGLC comments I have submitted a new version (-19) of draft-sip-push.

 

The following changes were done:

 

  • ABNF
  • UA text regarding binding expiration (in case of multiple bindings) and usage of PRIDs associated with other UAs

 

The following pull request was merged for the new version:

 

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/27

 

A big Thank You to Paul for his review!

 

Regards,

 

Christer



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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore

--------------182F80A02B8C80E13ADC845F-- From nobody Tue Oct 16 11:11:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747D5130E1C for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:11:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id no6ToLyfsg_O for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu [18.7.68.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AAD130DFF for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:11:14 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440e-44dff70000000728-00-5bc629bf773c Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) by alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 75.BD.01832.0C926CB5; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9GIBACY028289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:11:11 -0400 To: Robert Sparks , sipcore@ietf.org References: <58ff7730-62b9-fcb9-ed95-16c4892586ff@nostrum.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <0ea63d0e-a719-6f03-6464-c83f904bfe38@alum.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:11:10 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <58ff7730-62b9-fcb9-ed95-16c4892586ff@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqHtQ81i0waIJKhbX5jSyWXz9sYnN gcljyZKfTB6zdj5hCWCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mp4M383W8EC1oqOSUtYGhh7WLoYOTkkBEwk Ln+4wQZiCwlcZpRoWczTxcgFZD9kkph35TMTSEJYwFTi8t0FYEUiAlYS9x/eYu5i5AAqKpH4 OdkGJMwmoCUx59B/sJm8AvYS0/9fZASxWQRUJVbdnQlmiwqkSfztXMIIUSMocXLmExaQMZxA 9Vf6nEDCzAJmEvM2P2SGsMUlbj2ZzwRhy0tsfzuHeQIj/ywk3bOQtMxC0jILScsCRpZVjHKJ OaW5urmJmTnFqcm6xcmJeXmpRbrGermZJXqpKaWbGCFByreDsX29zCFGAQ5GJR5eAclj0UKs iWXFlbmHGCU5mJREeTOlgEJ8SfkplRmJxRnxRaU5qcWHGCU4mJVEeNMvHY0W4k1JrKxKLcqH SUlzsCiJ87KZ7I0SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2CycpwcChJ8OZrAA0VLEpNT61Iy8wpQUgzcXCCDOcB Gj4TpIa3uCAxtzgzHSJ/itGYY8/XphnMHG1Pr89gFmLJy89LlRLn5QMpFQApzSjNg5sGSzSv GMWBnhPmnQNSxQNMUnDzXgGtYgJa5W57BGRVSSJCSqqB0fDHo1nBs05ePXz6bOSvCf+8LmXs 9nLJyX+s03Z3/o9NVosuecut0fu61kmH34Fl0qb9h9KfJX8/9OKhjlrxhxPMmqa7eh1fvPZQ XnGw4//m6xMN6u5YL5uRIPT7rFanaFj1dNeIrHtpVclquppzzbV5oyKnnX9dFtd7deOTC07v 5XimftrL8lqJpTgj0VCLuag4EQCEq/tnDwMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-19 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 18:11:19 -0000 On 10/16/18 1:53 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > 3) For future-proofing - right now the identifiers we put in pn-prid > just happen to be minted by the push services we know in a way that fits > the ABNF for a pn-prid value. What happens if one of those service > providers changes, or a new service provider shows up with a prid value > that syntactically won't fit in that parameter. Should we consider > base64 encoding/decoding or something like it to protect against that? ISTM it would make more sense to require each push service to provide an ID that syntactically fits here. If they want to use base64 to do that is up to them. Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Oct 16 11:33:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22EAB130E25 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:33:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gGzsfD5HDA02 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2328130DFF for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unescapeable.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w9GIXdZu080399 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:33:39 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be unescapeable.local To: Paul Kyzivat , sipcore@ietf.org References: <58ff7730-62b9-fcb9-ed95-16c4892586ff@nostrum.com> <0ea63d0e-a719-6f03-6464-c83f904bfe38@alum.mit.edu> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <376868a7-c718-fc64-fb26-c324defff608@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:33:38 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0ea63d0e-a719-6f03-6464-c83f904bfe38@alum.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-19 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 18:33:45 -0000 On 10/16/18 1:11 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 10/16/18 1:53 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > >> 3) For future-proofing - right now the identifiers we put in pn-prid >> just happen to be minted by the push services we know in a way that >> fits the ABNF for a pn-prid value. What happens if one of those >> service providers changes, or a new service provider shows up with a >> prid value that syntactically won't fit in that parameter. Should we >> consider base64 encoding/decoding or something like it to protect >> against that? > > ISTM it would make more sense to require each push service to provide > an ID that syntactically fits here. If they want to use base64 to do > that is up to them. You think Apple's team working on their push service is paying attention to our desire to carry the tokens they create around in SIP? > >     Thanks, >     Paul From nobody Tue Oct 16 11:40:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D7A124C04 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:40:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 58YqpdSAxlQw for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu [18.7.68.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F030B130DFF for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074413-4f5ff70000006a37-69-5bc6307f1805 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) by alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 6D.61.27191.F7036CB5; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:39:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9GIdwqx030274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:39:59 -0400 To: Robert Sparks , sipcore@ietf.org References: <58ff7730-62b9-fcb9-ed95-16c4892586ff@nostrum.com> <0ea63d0e-a719-6f03-6464-c83f904bfe38@alum.mit.edu> <376868a7-c718-fc64-fb26-c324defff608@nostrum.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:39:58 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <376868a7-c718-fc64-fb26-c324defff608@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqFtvcCzaYMsBG4trcxrZLL7+2MTm wOSxZMlPJo9ZO5+wBDBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGX8XHWItWAid8WmlccYGxjvc3QxcnJICJhI LG+/wt7FyMUhJHCZUeLXu/MsEM5DJolzS34zglQJC5hKXL67gA3EFhGwkrj/8BYzRNF9RomW Y7+ZQBJsAloScw79B+rm4OAVsJdY/cAQJMwioCrRsnwpO4gtKpAm8bdzCdhMXgFBiZMzn4CV cwKV7zuTCxJmFjCTmLf5ITOELS5x68l8JghbXmL72znMExj5ZyHpnoWkZRaSlllIWhYwsqxi lEvMKc3VzU3MzClOTdYtTk7My0st0jXXy80s0UtNKd3ECAlU4R2Mu07KHWIU4GBU4uEVkDwW LcSaWFZcmXuIUZKDSUmUN1MKKMSXlJ9SmZFYnBFfVJqTWnyIUYKDWUmEN/3S0Wgh3pTEyqrU onyYlDQHi5I4L7PJ3ighgfTEktTs1NSC1CKYrAwHh5IEb4M+0FDBotT01Iq0zJwShDQTByfI cB6g4VkgNbzFBYm5xZnpEPlTjMYce742zWDmaHt6fQazEEtefl6qlDivCEipAEhpRmke3DRY snnFKA70nDDvBpAqHmCigpv3CmgVE9Aqd9sjIKtKEhFSUg2M20q4clMLFryssmP+PCvYY2lB 5b1lSbHzjvh7qwdO23RSXP12wAQnjvyEhoLZz0yjHO5U+Bpx5Wjfkz/nvKN9boFYaNHV1/vk 6gu73prlvrhqtFryTsHGV53awf1zz8zazWj9Rchs889JDvosUZeu/ioNEt9pU7dzT75w1Np6 S67Jbc8/PD2qxFKckWioxVxUnAgArN603BEDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-19 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 18:40:03 -0000 On 10/16/18 2:33 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > > > On 10/16/18 1:11 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> On 10/16/18 1:53 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: >> >>> 3) For future-proofing - right now the identifiers we put in pn-prid >>> just happen to be minted by the push services we know in a way that >>> fits the ABNF for a pn-prid value. What happens if one of those >>> service providers changes, or a new service provider shows up with a >>> prid value that syntactically won't fit in that parameter. Should we >>> consider base64 encoding/decoding or something like it to protect >>> against that? >> >> ISTM it would make more sense to require each push service to provide >> an ID that syntactically fits here. If they want to use base64 to do >> that is up to them. > You think Apple's team working on their push service is paying attention > to our desire to carry the tokens they create around in SIP? Let me put it differently: *Somebody* needs to specify the ID to be used for each service, and it needs to be something that fits syntactically. It doesn't need to be Apple, just somebody making the registration on behalf of Apple. The most likely way seems to be by publishing a document and referencing it in the registration. For the first few it could be included in this document. This document can then make reference to whatever proprietary things it needs. Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Oct 16 11:48:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DDD130E29 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:48:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tRhnJEQzTZNr for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29006130E25 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unescapeable.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w9GImnb0083029 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:48:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be unescapeable.local To: Paul Kyzivat , sipcore@ietf.org References: <58ff7730-62b9-fcb9-ed95-16c4892586ff@nostrum.com> <0ea63d0e-a719-6f03-6464-c83f904bfe38@alum.mit.edu> <376868a7-c718-fc64-fb26-c324defff608@nostrum.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <6234435f-fce4-a9e2-ccd8-38afa9b3e53a@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:48:49 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-19 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 18:48:56 -0000 On 10/16/18 1:39 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 10/16/18 2:33 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: >> >> >> On 10/16/18 1:11 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>> On 10/16/18 1:53 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: >>> >>>> 3) For future-proofing - right now the identifiers we put in >>>> pn-prid just happen to be minted by the push services we know in a >>>> way that fits the ABNF for a pn-prid value. What happens if one of >>>> those service providers changes, or a new service provider shows up >>>> with a prid value that syntactically won't fit in that parameter. >>>> Should we consider base64 encoding/decoding or something like it to >>>> protect against that? >>> >>> ISTM it would make more sense to require each push service to >>> provide an ID that syntactically fits here. If they want to use >>> base64 to do that is up to them. >> You think Apple's team working on their push service is paying >> attention to our desire to carry the tokens they create around in SIP? > > Let me put it differently: > > *Somebody* needs to specify the ID to be used for each service, and it > needs to be something that fits syntactically. It doesn't need to be > Apple, just somebody making the registration on behalf of Apple. The > most likely way seems to be by publishing a document and referencing > it in the registration. For the first few it could be included in this > document. This document can then make reference to whatever > proprietary things it needs. Wait - I think you're looking at the wrong thing. I had a different item about the identifier that you _register_. I'm not that concerned about whether those fit syntactically in our messages. That is not the concern in 3 above. I'm talking now about the pn-prid - the bits that you get when you _USE_ the service that you hand back to say "wake that thing up". > >     Thanks, >     Paul From nobody Wed Oct 17 03:25:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9448E12DD85 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 03:25:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.363 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.363 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.064, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=Y9/l4Q8A; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=mgTT7j4L Received: from 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Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-19 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:31:43 -0000 SGksDQoNClRoZSBkcmFmdCBzYXlzOg0KDQoiUGFyYW1ldGVyIHZhbHVlIGNoYXJhY3RlcnMgdGhh dCBhcmUgbm90IHBhcnQgb2YgcHZhbHVlIG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIGVzY2FwZWQsIGFzIGRlZmluZWQg aW4gUkZDIDMyNjEuIg0KDQpTbywgSSB0aGluayB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBzeW50YXggaXMgb2suDQoN ClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkNocmlzdGVyDQoNCg0KDQoNCu+7v09uIDE2LzEwLzIwMTgsIDIxLjQ5LCAi c2lwY29yZSBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgUm9iZXJ0IFNwYXJrcyIgPHNpcGNvcmUtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRm Lm9yZyBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgcmpzcGFya3NAbm9zdHJ1bS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQogICAgDQog ICAgDQogICAgT24gMTAvMTYvMTggMTozOSBQTSwgUGF1bCBLeXppdmF0IHdyb3RlOg0KICAgID4g T24gMTAvMTYvMTggMjozMyBQTSwgUm9iZXJ0IFNwYXJrcyB3cm90ZToNCiAgICA+Pg0KICAgID4+ DQogICAgPj4gT24gMTAvMTYvMTggMToxMSBQTSwgUGF1bCBLeXppdmF0IHdyb3RlOg0KICAgID4+ 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wKUbcAD9_vcR for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 08:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu [18.7.68.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42DFC129AB8 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 08:52:29 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074411-593ff70000007049-e0-5bc75abc4db8 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) by alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id D8.51.28745.CBA57CB5; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9HFqQ0X000645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:52:27 -0400 To: Robert Sparks , sipcore@ietf.org References: <58ff7730-62b9-fcb9-ed95-16c4892586ff@nostrum.com> <0ea63d0e-a719-6f03-6464-c83f904bfe38@alum.mit.edu> <376868a7-c718-fc64-fb26-c324defff608@nostrum.com> <6234435f-fce4-a9e2-ccd8-38afa9b3e53a@nostrum.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <96a1f672-b49e-a8cf-fc2e-6410df641e16@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:52:26 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6234435f-fce4-a9e2-ccd8-38afa9b3e53a@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrPIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqLsn6ni0wY9fChbX5jSyWXz9sYnN gcljyZKfTB6zdj5hCWCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MroOGdacFOkYtvWY8wNjKsFuhg5OSQETCS+ 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List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:52:31 -0000 On 10/16/18 2:48 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > > > On 10/16/18 1:39 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> On 10/16/18 2:33 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 10/16/18 1:11 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>>> On 10/16/18 1:53 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: >>>> >>>>> 3) For future-proofing - right now the identifiers we put in >>>>> pn-prid just happen to be minted by the push services we know in a >>>>> way that fits the ABNF for a pn-prid value. What happens if one of >>>>> those service providers changes, or a new service provider shows up >>>>> with a prid value that syntactically won't fit in that parameter. >>>>> Should we consider base64 encoding/decoding or something like it to >>>>> protect against that? >>>> >>>> ISTM it would make more sense to require each push service to >>>> provide an ID that syntactically fits here. If they want to use >>>> base64 to do that is up to them. >>> You think Apple's team working on their push service is paying >>> attention to our desire to carry the tokens they create around in SIP? >> >> Let me put it differently: >> >> *Somebody* needs to specify the ID to be used for each service, and it >> needs to be something that fits syntactically. It doesn't need to be >> Apple, just somebody making the registration on behalf of Apple. The >> most likely way seems to be by publishing a document and referencing >> it in the registration. For the first few it could be included in this >> document. This document can then make reference to whatever >> proprietary things it needs. > Wait - I think you're looking at the wrong thing. > I had a different item about the identifier that you _register_. I'm not > that concerned about whether those fit syntactically in our messages. > That is not the concern in 3 above. > > I'm talking now about the pn-prid - the bits that you get when you _USE_ > the service that you hand back to say "wake that thing up". Yes, I understand that. What I'm saying is that each service has *something* that needs to be identified and mapped to this particular sip syntax. Each service will have its own nomenclature. (Most won't have something that they call a pn-prid.) So there needs to be something that specifies what is to be mapped to pn-prid, and how. It needn't be a direct byte-for-byte mapping. The mapping simply needs to be well defined and invertable. In some cases it may be possible for the id to be direct mapped byte-by-byte. If not, sip escape codes are one possibility. Hex or radix64 are other possibilities. But this need not be consistent across services. Thanks, Paul From nobody Thu Oct 18 01:54:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBB951292F1 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:54:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cfYZhgKgP9Ze for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42e.google.com (mail-pf1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21300130E6B for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id u12-v6so14552351pfn.12 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:54:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:references:cc:from:openpgp:autocrypt:subject:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=casnuzRLc51/iRt0VOw86uFRE9CAxIO1yYeSgwPgiKw=; b=dpADeDpztbwlY0Grwz8yj1ixfv0Wzykq5+Zk5OLt7JQTydpAhTX5rPo1/mKmJt/DIg g9fXfbXkFUHyaOv3gPzSIqnJVhghGRCcoMT1F1EsedBAVfyq7lhlpGGT8O15idvxXG5U TH2ICqJy3kbzhg6N/Nbm/wgqy2/VF3MGT78CN5NeKzwds3iPoLSnIw2ZYAj45oozcFvS 4gWKM2LTNcBSHTCDjUygDNTZtJ5PWU93Ku7YDr7j96u+a6p+B8iy79ImV0HBhOW83Oed aSjpnzM9LPwBQmygjjMDI84jrqkgMHdSHJoM/psTTKeEZ4nrcJwdsTr+gewgRoLVSI8P ouJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:references:cc:from:openpgp:autocrypt:subject :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=casnuzRLc51/iRt0VOw86uFRE9CAxIO1yYeSgwPgiKw=; b=eaxDW5WKMMAPxrDUwgMiULdZgVAIUoed23qyOatVzHzW2uxKu7/2ez8pWtCnd5r5kH QKUccTZTS7mB0C7ybzJsuHXpi4+Q+PfyvoAGv5wt4T4JE1LUFoztyGRBdtsRgPFOaXKM Mf8+pv8SfiQez1Ko/hZbGmJ2V+aIFrTV1nt+QfC3Gjqib1KqZ9BM8GMLt9XuSZqTxGl+ lIZnNSKzoxzJhiFbXyWb28JbAD8HH6vVYReOMKBT4rtaDb9nPqxbo4i2OiISJK6Xy6KX 06zES/7VjEWX2gpJODYddW+IeyPSFD9bXqJYfGLM+6V8yb3ISXQYuqUa8k+RbDpUhpvk wgJg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoibMphF0zVdSnXvs/hos9TWCC0pCPeOarwkEiVxbogLD6s+Xi3X k8Co+k63xj5nlxnWr6EBxVg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60iKXtTGSeZaRIcE941seYvVunO6iOk7JGB/5vPDg8aAyCpM3Dm7QJX9AAcasjnuIzxQVyTMQ== X-Received: by 2002:a62:6c4:: with SMTP id 187-v6mr29270944pfg.109.1539852888559; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.126] (x156176.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp. [122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o76-v6sm37020005pfi.162.2018.10.18.01.54.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:54:48 -0700 (PDT) To: sipcore@ietf.org References: From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:54:44 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181017-8, 2018/10/18), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Pre-IETF phone call on session timer X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:54:58 -0000 Hi, =46rom my point of view, issue 2(I created in GitHub) is not a re-design = of the procedure but a clarification of the one. The explicit change is t= hat the UAC NEED NOT to insert the Min-SE header into a session refresh r= equest. If you think that there are other changes, please point out. Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/13 18:04, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > > I am planning to organize an unofficial phone call to discuss the sessi= on timer work. Obviously, no official decisions can be made on the phone = call, and the main reason is to make sure everyone has a common understan= ding on issues and suggestions that have been discussed. > > > Please indicate your availability on Doodle: > > > https://doodle.com/poll/px84vfsg77tyth7r > > > Note #1: If you want to change/clarify some procedures, I ask you to de= scribe it as in GitHub issue, or at least in a dedicated e-mail on the li= st. > > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sessiontimer-race/issues > > > (Let me know if you have any issues with GitHub) > > > > Note #2: The purpose of the deliverable is to clarify procedures and to= fix bugs caused by the current RFC. If you want to re-design some proced= ures just because you think it would be better, this is NOT the right del= iverable.. > > > Regards, > > > Christer > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Thu Oct 18 02:23:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6B8130E1D for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:23:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 447znfepIkhF for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x431.google.com (mail-pf1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D834A130934 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x431.google.com with SMTP id g21-v6so7606599pfi.7 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:23:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zVhCT0AxuIUl134Ly158ppL0BWM+a0Sj17Q+i4VF94I=; b=AmK6XbHcALFkQstsKS0jN37Pt6aoBukRxv1fz9Xst8hZkYasrmnY+FdxCnRaBGDIoa xtdVCBrr/5uFPW1FCeO/TUecsP6a6xfSn9ZS/uwJ2W/LZz0GTGjx0EwJW3CXRjtN/u6B etKclQYaRLOKaCSOWB/v4VQ0YZSaGp4drRl/1uKfWpcb8efJVFX9GJWktYHbIm0Hzps8 J10h/X9D6k6hW0l2iQoHsebhoBJlZYD1/IIj0onAi5iUfzJ8zJtRaos9jqX7ugQ/jYpw gC8kL/Lh/c2ES/n72jzAuE7mWrDFXn84GTfjMnZRCqwaV/UA8MQQXEfQpe0U45BW36Wm 8x6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zVhCT0AxuIUl134Ly158ppL0BWM+a0Sj17Q+i4VF94I=; b=KyAno5xo6LKEdWTEC1gsSckqmOVpkmJ27Apr9Zrmd0gI+MSsKbjN2y22yLK6pixokd YGjEIZs76ZUcq5XrHV5kcUwmP+bs+/j/E35eHFYY591/k2yJ/3wbXbfAaU6ZAN03FhHo jvlwRo9DxZhFk7MNeoP9hbcrZkbUoHbOpnOJDn3UiNnRNDW2nHS0pp2DTl1nmIjeEDIR LTZgNeUmsh7o/xjg2xuPJdrL9Vl5eDUvSBD8MNgGuWN+8xIGQlbPaQcD+KSeO1+9eoA0 T2I/56wuoV8Eu47fwhjIyIlQrIjZ8oPGuEuRa0QJHqIEmNq8CW6/ueBVlwYoiO6A7as4 jLqg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiPbDljzKV5mZkZqAAt4RO4tumb38kjpQIuxoJUqDhqjS6w5vOh C60/dRRN7D4/o9DZJHDeWwQPIi5o3m4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61l/HvN2XivloyA0iTsv7XPV+HFTF7pq6m+VcKSXn9cJCBMEuxRzUzyIq8e5Te/QhSno+vc3w== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6307:: with SMTP id x7-v6mr4663978pgb.196.1539854579971; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-f176.google.com (mail-pf1-f176.google.com. [209.85.210.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2-v6sm31350001pfj.122.2018.10.18.02.22.58 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f176.google.com with SMTP id l17-v6so14610168pff.2 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:22:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:3942:: with SMTP id g63-v6mr30761255pfa.170.1539854578392; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:22:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 05:22:47 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000026a58a05787d5505" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Pre-IETF phone call on session timer X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:23:03 -0000 --00000000000026a58a05787d5505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 4:55 AM OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > From my point of view, issue 2(I created in GitHub) is not a re-design of > the procedure but a clarification of the one. The explicit change is that > the UAC NEED NOT to insert the Min-SE header into a session refresh request. > > UAC SHOULD insert Min-SE, if it has a limit on how often it can refresh. There is probably no reason for UAC to mirror Min-SE received in the last refresh response, since each negotiation should be considered as a new one. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000026a58a05787d5505 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 4:55 AM OKUMURA Shinji <= ;ietf.shinji@gmail.com> wro= te:
=C2= =A0
--00000000000026a58a05787d5505-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 00:14:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4157212777C; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:14:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <153993327420.31988.9664188659214330205@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:14:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-20.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:14:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Authors : Christer Holmberg Michael Arnold Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-20.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2018-10-19 Abstract: This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to trigger such push notification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-20 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Fri, 19 Oct 2018 11:56:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: ben@nostrum.com, sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153997539551.6592.14381162509352832524.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 11:56:35 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] sipcore - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 18:56:44 -0000 Dear Jean Mahoney, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. sipcore Session 1 (1:00 requested) Thursday, 8 November 2018, Morning Session II 1120-1220 Room Name: Chitlada 3 size: 200 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/sessions/sipcore.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Session Initiation Protocol Core Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Jean Mahoney Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 40 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: stir modern ice dispatch avtcore mmusic sipbrandy rtcweb perc Second Priority: quic acme People who must be present: Ben Campbell Brian Rosen Jean Mahoney Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Oct 22 02:31:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 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-0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7E307DF6-08B3-43C1-8AA3-B6ECCB47E57A@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <7E307DF6-08B3-43C1-8AA3-B6ECCB47E57A@ericsson.com> From: Yehoshua Gev Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 17:34:15 +0300 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: sipcore Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006d4be00578d226f5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push -20 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:34:32 -0000 --0000000000006d4be00578d226f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have some questions regarding the following sentences in section 5.3.2: If the contact of the REGISTER request does not match the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, or if the contact was not present in the REGISTER response, the proxy MUST reject the SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. This can happen if the UA sends a binding refresh REGISTER request with a new contact at the same time the registrar forwards a SIP request towards a UA using the previously registered contact in the Request-URI. a. What kind of matching should be done to capture the case of "the contact of the REGISTER request does not match the Request-URI of the SIP request"? In case the incoming REGISTER request has a different Contact than the Contact of the postponed request, what will make the proxy assume that it is related to the postponed request? (I guess that a possible answer is that outbound or GRUU is used). b. The last sentence give justification for rejecting the request, which I fail to understand. Say that the UA is using outbound and wishes to replace its Contact, why would we require the request to be rejected? As an alternative, I suggest that there will be no explicit text about rejecting the request, but rather requiring the proxy to perform the regular routing logic again (after processing the REGISTER response) - maybe with a restriction of not performing another push notification (to avoid loops). This will allow changing of the Contact as long as the proxy has logic for correctly route the request to the UA. This will also give a more precise response code (404 is misleading if the UA's Contact was just replaced). Additionally, I think that the text about matching the Request-URI with the Contact should be relaxed, to allow matching using other methods (like GRUU, outbound flow tokens, etc.), which are not necessarily done by matching with the REGISTER's Contact. Another small issue, with the following paragraph: In case of non-2xx response to the REGISTER request, the proxy MUST reject the SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. Should we consider an attacker sending the REGISTER and being denied by the registrar? If so, the proxy should not perform any action on non-2xx responses. Thanks, Yehoshua On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:16 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > Based on Robert=E2=80=99s comments, I have submitted a new version (-20) = of > draft-sip-push. > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > --0000000000006d4be00578d226f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I have = some questions regarding the following sentences in section 5.3.2:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If the contact of the REGISTER request does not match
<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, or if = the contact
=C2=A0 =C2=A0was not present in the REGISTER response= , the proxy MUST reject the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SIP request with a 404 (= Not Found) response.=C2=A0 This can happen if the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0UA= sends a binding refresh REGISTER request with a new contact at the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0same time the registrar forwards a SIP request towards a UA= using the

Hi,


I am planning to organize an unof= ficial phone call to discuss the session timer work. Obviously, no official= decisions can be made on the phone call, and the main reason is to make su= re everyone has a common understanding on issues and suggestions that have been discussed.


Please indicate your availability= on Doodle:


https://doodle.com/poll/px84vfsg77tyth7r


Note #1: If you want to change/cl= arify some procedures, I ask you to describe it as in GitHub issue, or at l= east in a dedicated e-mail on the list. 


https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sessiontimer-race/issues


(Let me know if you have any issues with GitHub)



Note #2: The purpose of the deliv= erable is to clarify procedures and to fix bugs caused by the current RFC. = If you want to re-design some procedures just because you think it would be= better, this is NOT the right deliverable.


Regards,


Christer


=C2=A0 =C2=A0previously registered contact in the Requ= est-URI.

a. What kind of matching should be done t= o capture the case of "the contact
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the REGIS= TER request does not match the Request-URI of the SIP request"?
<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In case the incoming REGISTER request has a different Cont= act than the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Contact of the postponed request, what = will make the proxy assume that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it is related to the= postponed request?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(I guess that a possible answer = is that outbound or GRUU is used).

b. The last sen= tence give justification for rejecting the request, which
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0I fail to understand. Say that the UA is using outbound and wishes to=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0replace its Contact, why would we require the reque= st to be rejected?

As an alternative, I suggest th= at there will be no explicit text about
rejecting the request, bu= t rather requiring the proxy to perform the
regular routing logic= again (after processing the REGISTER response) -
maybe with a re= striction of not performing another push notification (to
avoid l= oops).
This will allow changing of the Contact as long as the pro= xy has logic for
correctly route the request to the UA.
This will also give a more precise response code (404 is misleading if
the UA's Contact was just replaced).

Ad= ditionally, I think that the text about matching the Request-URI with the
Contact should be relaxed, to allow matching using other methods (= like
GRUU, outbound flow tokens, etc.), which are not necessarily= done by
matching with the REGISTER's Contact.

=
Another small issue, with the following paragraph:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In= case of non-2xx response to the REGISTER request, the proxy MUST
=C2=A0= =C2=A0reject the SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.
Should w= e consider an attacker sending the REGISTER and being denied
by t= he registrar? If so, the proxy should not perform any action on non-2xx
responses.


Thanks,
Yehoshua

= On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:16 AM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:=

Hi,<= u>

<= /u>=C2=A0

Base= d on Robert=E2=80=99s comments, I have submitted a new version (-20) of dra= ft-sip-push.

<= /u>=C2=A0

Rega= rds,

<= /u>=C2=A0

Chri= ster

_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push -20 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:18:41 -0000 SGksDQoNCk5vdGUsIHRob3VnaCwgdGhhdCB0aGUgc3VibWlzc2lvbiBjdXQtb2ZmIGRhdGUgaXMg dG9kYXksIHNvIGlmIHdlIGFyZSBnb2luZyB0byBhZGQgc29tZSB0ZXh0IGJhc2VkIG9uIFllaG9z aHVhJ3MgY29tbWVudHMgSSdkIHN1Z2dlc3QgdG8gZG8gaXQgbGF0ZXIuIEJlY2F1c2UgSSdkIHJl YWxseSBsaWtlIHRvIG1vdmUgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IGZvcndhcmQuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkNocmlz dGVyDQoNCg0K77u/T24gMjIvMTAvMjAxOCwgMTguMTYsICJzaXBjb3JlIG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBD aHJpc3RlciBIb2xtYmVyZyIgPHNpcGNvcmUtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2Yg Y2hyaXN0ZXIuaG9sbWJlcmdAZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIEhpLA0KICAgIA0K ICAgID4gICBJIGhhdmUgc29tZSBxdWVzdGlvbnMgcmVnYXJkaW5nIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgc2Vu dGVuY2VzIGluIHNlY3Rpb24gNS4zLjI6DQogICAgPiAgIElmIHRoZSBjb250YWN0IG9mIHRoZSBS 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b3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc2lwY29yZQ0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Mon Oct 22 08:34:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D5B1298C5 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 08:34:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xVk_X7ZosV5Y for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 08:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu [18.7.68.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D49124BE5 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 08:34:35 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440f-9e7ff70000000895-0c-5bcdee0802c2 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 73.AE.02197.90EEDCB5; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9MFYVFp026555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:34:32 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <8766571f-6f28-3896-ccad-c551059cfb87@alum.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:34:31 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrPIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqMv57my0QfNPC4uvPzaxOTB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr493xw8wFRwQrzv/+zdbAeJC3i5GTQ0LAROLzvN3MXYxcHEIC B5kkJnx5xgbh/GCSeHG2kxWkSligROLkqYeMILaIgIjEs+n/2EBsIQF7idvHGplAbDYBLYk5 h/6zgNi8QPEnP2+C1bMIqEqc/DSRGcQWFUiT+Nu5hBGiRlDi5MwnYPWcAg4S0/ftAdvFLGAm MW/zQ2YIW1zi1pP5TBC2vETz1tnMExj5ZyFpn4WkZRaSlllIWhYwsqxilEvMKc3VzU3MzClO TdYtTk7My0st0jXRy80s0UtNKd3ECAlL/h2MXetlDjEKcDAq8fB2fDkTLcSaWFZcmXuIUZKD SUmUN9H4dLQQX1J+SmVGYnFGfFFpTmrxIUYJDmYlEd6VS85GC/GmJFZWpRblw6SkOViUxHlZ TfZGCQmkJ5akZqemFqQWwWRlODiUJHjr3gA1ChalpqdWpGXmlCCkmTg4QYbzAA1PBKnhLS5I zC3OTIfIn2LU5djztWkGsxBLXn5eqpQ47yaQIgGQoozSPLg5sHTyilEc6C1h3i0gVTzAVAQ3 6RXQEiagJdfVz4AsKUlESEk1MHpyaAVN6uwWXih1OPnHrexa08nXtyyoSJ1Rz6P+V7RGNKU9 /j3bjHJW3/Iru5uSwmr3hshNcfbs8It6xHBinniMc7a0nGHfrdkZ21TmPeOv6gsLOG+t+C6l nP1rc5u+ROyiFbPkVvlItqmseLNYu/n1znmu9uKrvJVOJbaHRGzUSYv/KHZRiaU4I9FQi7mo OBEAtmup7AIDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:34:38 -0000 On 10/22/18 5:45 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > Section 8.1 of RFC 4028 says: > >    “To request a session timer for a session, a proxy makes sure that a > >    Session-Expires header field is present in a session refresh request > >    for that session.” > > But, the text also says: > >    “A proxy MAY insert a Session-Expires header field > >    in the request before forwarding it if none was present in the > >    request.” The above are consistent - just different ways of saying the same thing. > In my reading, this might end up in the UAS receiving a request without > Session-Expires. However, if the UAC supports session timer, that > request might still contain Supported: timer. Yes. Again, this is fine. > Section 9 contains the following text_ > >    “If the incoming request contains a Supported header field with a >    value 'timer' but does not contain a Session-Expires header, it means >    that the UAS is indicating support for timers but is not requesting >    one. This section is about UAS behavior, and so "incoming request" in this context is the *received* by the UAS, and so it indicates what the UAC supports. > The UAS may request a session timer in the 2XX response by >    including a Session-Expires header field.  The value MUST NOT be set >    to a duration lower than the value in the Min-SE header field in the >    request, if it is present.” This part is fine. > First, I think there is a spelling error. It should be “that the UAC is > indicating support for timers”. I agree. > Second, I think it should be clarified that, in the case of an ongoing > session timer INVITE transaction, the UAS should also in this case > insert whatever S-E value it intends to insert in the 2XX response to > the INVITE. Your wording here is confusing me. Where is it that you want an S-E inserted to match what it intends to insert in a (later) 2xx? Thanks, Paul > Regards, > > Christer > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > From nobody Mon Oct 22 08:40:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79820124BE5 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 08:40:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.871 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=O94IASdn; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=aEsdf6aM Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wb1Ik8cOp6XX for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB3439; H:VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: KvMdEkUSp0+zZj8fm3q7kPRZywPnNNJKugD+AE4n/HZD+28x6TAfJt2VQ6yXLF0Wp7dAJfpieINnj4oZmwYho1rR+VI0GVSdVo2hA1sWtGpESYYoNIM+w5ftUYl8jjD8S9aKav6DiBwhlReljlaD6XcjVCs8Geam0Mvo5XJOoRpoz4bqxVHiaFb2KuAcD3Uco6CC6rWV0Eo4XdGnLwOsw4mljZerOVGjGWLKLspkCnflIuUlJl/YQusRn5TcKEy2LJMv9BAUC9wElAQDRBIVGK7AeSUcHwb6jJWIgqZIatXsP3y21KKjmQEzC1AaiblbvvPydNwaJ5p8C+Ri1TCfWNC4L+Jq0kQolN0GMPw7PQM= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <188E5EE85DCBCB48BF3BBFB832849A4C@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 03df9fb5-6c09-486f-9b69-08d638349e2a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Oct 2018 15:39:56.1640 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3439 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SbUhTYRTHee69m3ejwePUPGgRDioznE0Nhkhqn+zDSokkVKihNxV1yu5c LUIWObUZuFIxZ6TpKBVLm8ksK98RraFEWUjIlmLL8IUoU6SV17uib79zzv/3cA48NCmtFoTQ eRodo9WoC2RCMdVw1qGNVK06M47M94Yr27oHBcofG3ZhIpH8a3WNSLbZNokUIl0cn80U5OkZ bdSx8+Lc+tk+QbHV/9Lc+kvCiFzYjEQ04FgoKzcLzUhMS/EYAtc3lx9frCMY8baR/4ruut8U p0ixjYAPNxXcgMIWElrsmxSfqiVg7rVJwBefEGxML26/TNNCrIQq72HODsSp8M5mITkOwDqY mHQjvl8C48sOguc4mL53e4cpvB/WG40C7hkJTgBT4xl+iRK47hzZUUU4EXrHHgs4Rng3/Jzs 3FFJHAyzC00EfycG2/Mpkucg+DLv3ckH4ShoclX6XDUMdLh8mTBwrrh97l5401SFuLMAzwjB U97oG0TCWl2dT1DB25mvFB8aR9DwwERwSwOOgEedKXwmH2q2tnz5CKgctRIWFGP9b1frtkHi Q9D1LIpvJ4O9dZnkOQxqq9x+HEuwP0w0LFDNSNCBgliGZQtzoqPljDYvi2WLNHINo7Oj7W8y 9GQrrg8NfU4aRphGsl2SUY8zQypQ61lD4TACmpQFStpt2y1JttpwmdEWndOWFDDsMAqlKVmw 5PgFZboU56h1TD7DFDPav1OCFoUYkbxnafz0nYplfby3VJ7giko1DHyfslNJR9sde2KDb0xf VL0weQL0zaGimMKWfXGpinB6YutazXhpc5/fycz+A+77S/Wnsir6V19lmtPMBlW14US0/Fbh wY9duYtplqrBVjfVVqbYDL8SaBy563l4dfLp+5xWT2VN/uhKj9Qb6ZBRbK5aEUFqWfUfUgrd FyIDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:40:02 -0000 SGksDQoNCi4uLg0KICAgIA0KPj4gU2VjdGlvbiA5IGNvbnRhaW5zIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgdGV4 dF8NCj4+IA0KPj4gICAgIOKAnElmIHRoZSBpbmNvbWluZyByZXF1ZXN0IGNvbnRhaW5zIGEgU3Vw cG9ydGVkIGhlYWRlciBmaWVsZCB3aXRoIGENCj4+ICAgICB2YWx1ZSAndGltZXInIGJ1dCBkb2Vz IG5vdCBjb250YWluIGEgU2Vzc2lvbi1FeHBpcmVzIGhlYWRlciwgaXQgbWVhbnMNCj4+ICAgICB0 aGF0IHRoZSBVQVMgaXMgaW5kaWNhdGluZyBzdXBwb3J0IGZvciB0aW1lcnMgYnV0IGlzIG5vdCBy ZXF1ZXN0aW5nDQo+PiAgICAgb25lLiANCj4gICAgDQo+ICAgIFRoaXMgc2VjdGlvbiBpcyBhYm91 dCBVQVMgYmVoYXZpb3IsIGFuZCBzbyAiaW5jb21pbmcgcmVxdWVzdCIgaW4gdGhpcyANCj4gICAg Y29udGV4dCBpcyB0aGUgKnJlY2VpdmVkKiBieSB0aGUgVUFTLCBhbmQgc28gaXQgaW5kaWNhdGVz IHdoYXQgdGhlIFVBQyANCj4gICAgc3VwcG9ydHMuDQogIA0KWWVzLg0KDQo+PiAgICAgVGhlIFVB UyBtYXkgcmVxdWVzdCBhIHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIgaW4gdGhlIDJYWCByZXNwb25zZSBieQ0KPj4g ICAgIGluY2x1ZGluZyBhIFNlc3Npb24tRXhwaXJlcyBoZWFkZXIgZmllbGQuICBUaGUgdmFsdWUg TVVTVCBOT1QgYmUgc2V0DQo+PiAgICAgdG8gYSBkdXJhdGlvbiBsb3dlciB0aGFuIHRoZSB2YWx1 ZSBpbiB0aGUgTWluLVNFIGhlYWRlciBmaWVsZCBpbiB0aGUNCj4+ICAgICByZXF1ZXN0LCBpZiBp dCBpcyBwcmVzZW50LuKAnQ0KPiAgICANCj4gICAgVGhpcyBwYXJ0IGlzIGZpbmUuDQo+ICAgIA0K Pj4gRmlyc3QsIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBzcGVsbGluZyBlcnJvci4gSXQgc2hvdWxkIGJl IOKAnHRoYXQgdGhlIFVBQyBpcyANCj4+IGluZGljYXRpbmcgc3VwcG9ydCBmb3IgdGltZXJz4oCd Lg0KPiAgICANCj4gICAgSSBhZ3JlZS4NCj4gICAgDQo+PiBTZWNvbmQsIEkgdGhpbmsgaXQgc2hv dWxkIGJlIGNsYXJpZmllZCB0aGF0LCBpbiB0aGUgY2FzZSBvZiBhbiBvbmdvaW5nIA0KPj4gc2Vz c2lvbiB0aW1lciBJTlZJVEUgdHJhbnNhY3Rpb24sIHRoZSBVQVMgc2hvdWxkIGFsc28gaW4gdGhp cyBjYXNlIA0KPj4gaW5zZXJ0IHdoYXRldmVyIFMtRSB2YWx1ZSBpdCBpbnRlbmRzIHRvIGluc2Vy dCBpbiB0aGUgMlhYIHJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIA0KPj4gdGhlIElOVklURS4NCj4gICAgDQo+ICAgIFlv dXIgd29yZGluZyBoZXJlIGlzIGNvbmZ1c2luZyBtZS4gV2hlcmUgaXMgaXQgdGhhdCB5b3Ugd2Fu dCBhbiBTLUUgDQo+ICAgIGluc2VydGVkIHRvIG1hdGNoIHdoYXQgaXQgaW50ZW5kcyB0byBpbnNl cnQgaW4gYSAobGF0ZXIpIDJ4eD8NCiAgDQpJbiB0aGUgcmVzcG9uc2UgdG8gdGhlIHJlZ3Vlc3Qg KGUuZy4sIGFuIFVQREFURSkgdGhhdCBjb250YWlucyBTdXBwb3J0ZWQ6dGltZXIsIGJ1dCBubyBT LUUuDQoNCk5vdywgYmFzZWQgb24gcHJldmlvdXMgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMsIGlmIHdlIHNheSB0aGF0 IHByb3hpZXMgc2hvdWxkIGluc2VydCB0aGUgc2FtZSBTLUUgaW4gYWxsIHJlcXVlc3QsIHRoaXMg c2hvdWxkIG9idmlvdXNseSBub3QgaGFwcGVuLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQoN Cg0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Mon Oct 22 13:46:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53695130F1D; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:45:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kyle Rose To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154024115730.13565.4561513275762767750@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:45:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-05 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:46:03 -0000 Reviewer: Kyle Rose Review result: Ready I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. Background: SIP currently provides no standard way to indicate that an invite via diversion from the original terminating user (e.g., via busy response or an unconditional call forward) is the result of diversion rather than a new origination, making it impossible in the absence of proprietary signaling to distinguish between the two cases. This draft adds an orig-cdiv signal to the P-Served-User header to indicate an invite resulting from a diversion, allowing an application server to take different actions in the two cases. Security evaluation: The addition of a new actionable signal is properly noted as the main security consideration of this change, along with a reminder that the P-Served-User header must be implemented as a privileged channel within a single trust domain and not transited into a domain from an untrusted entity. Other comments: As a reviewer new to SIP, I found the document very easy to follow. The introduction contained basic background about the use case, a clear explanation of the problem, and a high-level overview of the proposed solution. The normative section of the document was very clearly illustrated by the later examples section, containing two typical use-cases with clear diagrams. This is a model internet draft. 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x8-v6sm178999ioj.66.2018.10.23.01.53.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Oct 2018 01:53:49 -0700 (PDT) To: sipcore@ietf.org References: From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 17:53:46 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181023-0, 2018/10/23), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:53:52 -0000 Hi, On 2018/10/22 18:45, Christer Holmberg wrote: (snipping) > First, I think there is a spelling error. It should be =E2=80=9Cthat th= e UAC is indicating support for timers=E2=80=9D. This is already reported. https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid632 > Second, I think it should be clarified that, in the case of an ongoing = session timer INVITE transaction, the UAS should also in this case insert= whatever S-E value it intends to insert in the 2XX response to the INVIT= E. When an INVITE transaction is going on, obviously there is no need for th= e UAC to intentionally send an UPDATE for a new negotiation of session ti= mer. But UAs send an UPDATE for various reasons(offer/answer, precondition, et= c.), so we should prescribe a procedure to send an UPDATE request and res= ponse regardless of a session-timer. 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Tue, 23 Oct 2018 09:17:10 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires Thread-Index: AQHUaevqQ+CgqTCdck26QvEp9tlt66Ush/gAgAA41QA= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 09:17:10 +0000 Message-ID: <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.11.0.180909 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [89.166.49.243] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; VI1PR07MB4478; 6:SC1gqLJQQNonB5ImPli3CUoDioj5TwzsJuJ2c7KwPjStiK5FwlqcUpMsG7IXbraw5l1SOsC/dFG4iIcUWql3B398RFR8t2+VS5DTQZbgPawZThkXiYXRQS47eilcuB6dBkolXAqAu1Bgus0p3Re3a3qrc9QX5yPx6eRD9AggDE+hqxpQwwBm4y+4SCJLIZH3l4F2jgSKy1IFPzrTJ6zRmhOnL32x83ob+EIrQdp28cErOJMLtpTr2qtmAk8aTWaXQm+vJ6pJeXesubzt2xT5lmta+lT1xWvzS7LwuDfWKQRPfitk8qJvevmxqH3vR2Hh1tKhmHAjh89s/tBstF/ce386woTCBsr0lyfdDuS/24+Z4onWJsK9JEP0Bt0KdxL+mvPa4uZ+I/hrdApQNk9Ggo//XrWzgJ6Ju79vH7aiDSnsR10B1j0eLwBP1YmBMNFn2KxtdNpvZ4z/6/p+zq6AMw==; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 02347425-6359-40e7-6d68-08d638c8500c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Oct 2018 09:17:10.5799 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB4478 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Se0hTcRTH+d27e3d9jH4tHyfLqIGQymalxEizhwT6RyBFIQqtkRcV57Td OVMLLP3DZpKVb4NJ3PCRlYhpTs0Hha/SUgwpo5nmKzY1KYtU8noN+u9zzvme7znnx48h5UWU F5OgN7IGvVanoJ0lZVHNJqX3zGDMAWvObjV/u45WV9d3Uuofvxro42T42sIiEd5S/kkazvO/ iUgy2jkkltUlmFhDQOhF5/il2cd0Sr/LleyaQioL8S5m5MQADoLO/K+EGTkzcvwKQVPXgEQM fiLouN5FiQFPQGHFs82KBBeQMH3zBilW7hLQlj1ECGZy/AXB8HykGTEMjdWQt+4voBs+C1nt FwQFiffDyEczLfAObIS+/gkksBtOhR57MyHyEaiw10gFlmAfePhkWirYyPAxWGo5Iw4yQPYI vyl3wkdhccG6aYOwB6z01xHiKE/4MGUhxCsx8G1DpMjuMDe5TgnsjgPAYsulxF4tdNTatjT7 4I1jYqvXG4YteUjk9zRY7oeIrITFoiJSWA3waWgeDRMeBHAPgvnXJZSY94O5B16iPBFW16q2 7P0g92U5UYACy//btHyjg8S+8NQaIKbDwbZSTIu8DwrzJqQCy/B26CubklQiqha5cyzHJcUd ClSxhoRLHJesV+lZYwPa+CxdjX+Uz9Gjbye6EWaQwlU21joYI6e0Ji49qRsBQyrcZCEvNlKy WG16BmtI1hhSdSzXjXYxEoWnTFXbFi3HcVojm8iyKazhX5VgnLyyUEYEUzI8vHzt3Wq07qQm syMuuNenkjWGeoS5mrztvi6lZfmaBbI4J1WV1Kuy33O0b7P6jAe26nfeGu3jS6Ic0nFes3j+ 84z/0tvGU82QJqv/PpRpc5iukpURVPtlS1rKWPBA1fS5yag7wU2ZwUEjpXtYH+Xe2cMry6Vc S0a1QsLFaw/6kQZO+xd8KZXAKAMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 09:17:22 -0000 SGksDQoNCiA+PiBGaXJzdCwgSSB0aGluayB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHNwZWxsaW5nIGVycm9yLiBJdCBz aG91bGQgYmUg4oCcdGhhdCB0aGUgVUFDIGlzIGluZGljYXRpbmcgc3VwcG9ydCBmb3IgdGltZXJz 4oCdLg0KID4gICANCiA+ICAgVGhpcyBpcyBhbHJlYWR5IHJlcG9ydGVkLg0KID4gICBodHRwczov L3d3dy5yZmMtZWRpdG9yLm9yZy9lcnJhdGEvZWlkNjMyDQogICANCk9rLiBHb29kLg0KDQo+PiBT ZWNvbmQsIEkgdGhpbmsgaXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGNsYXJpZmllZCB0aGF0LCBpbiB0aGUgY2FzZSBv ZiBhbiBvbmdvaW5nIHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIgSU5WSVRFIHRyYW5zYWN0aW9uLCB0aGUgVUFTIHNo b3VsZCBhbHNvIGluIHRoaXMgY2FzZQ0KPj4gaW5zZXJ0IHdoYXRldmVyIFMtRSB2YWx1ZSBpdCBp bnRlbmRzIHRvIGluc2VydCBpbiB0aGUgMlhYIHJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIHRoZSBJTlZJVEUuDQo+ICAg IA0KPiBXaGVuIGFuIElOVklURSB0cmFuc2FjdGlvbiBpcyBnb2luZyBvbiwgb2J2aW91c2x5IHRo ZXJlIGlzIG5vIG5lZWQgZm9yIHRoZSBVQUMgdG8gaW50ZW50aW9uYWxseSBzZW5kIGFuIFVQREFU RSBmb3IgYSBuZXcgbmVnb3RpYXRpb24gb2Ygc2Vzc2lvbiB0aW1lci4NCj4gQnV0IFVBcyBzZW5k IGFuIFVQREFURSBmb3IgdmFyaW91cyByZWFzb25zKG9mZmVyL2Fuc3dlciwgcHJlY29uZGl0aW9u LCBldGMuKSwgc28gd2Ugc2hvdWxkIHByZXNjcmliZSBhIHByb2NlZHVyZSB0byBzZW5kIGFuIFVQ REFURSByZXF1ZXN0IGFuZCByZXNwb25zZSByZWdhcmRsZXNzIG9mIGEgc2Vzc2lvbi10aW1lci4N Cg0KQ29ycmVjdC4gQW5kLCBteSBzdWdnZXN0aW9uIGlzIHRoYXQgdGhlIFVBQyBzaG91bGQgaW5j bHVkZSB0aGUgc2FtZSB2YWx1ZXMgKFN1cHBvcnRlZCwgUy1FIGV0YykgaW4gdGhlIFVEUEFURS4N Cg0KQnV0LCBteSBpc3N1ZSB3YXMgdGhlIFVBUyBiZWhhdmlvciBpZiBpdCwgZm9yIHdoYXRldmVy IHJlYXNvbiwgcmVjZWl2ZXMgYW4gVVBEQVRFIHRoYXQgb25seSBjb250YWlucyBTdXBwb3J0ZWQ6 IHRpbWVyLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Oct 23 05:10:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF87130E7A for ; 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[61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n82-v6sm3537202pfg.21.2018.10.23.05.10.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:10:39 -0700 (PDT) To: "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 21:10:35 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181023-0, 2018/10/23), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 12:10:42 -0000 Hi, My suggestion is the below, If all entities(UAC, UAS and proxy) are aware that an INVITE transaction is going on with a negotiation of session timer, they only have to ignore SE and Min-SE header. Therefore UAC does not insert SE and Min-SE in the request, proxy does not add or modify SE and Min-SE in the request and UAS does not insert SE in the response. Of course proxy and UAS does not reject the request by 422 response. Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/23 18:17, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > >> First, I think there is a spelling error. It should be “that the UAC is indicating support for timers”. > > > > This is already reported. > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid632 > > Ok. Good. > >>> Second, I think it should be clarified that, in the case of an ongoing session timer INVITE transaction, the UAS should also in this case >>> insert whatever S-E value it intends to insert in the 2XX response to the INVITE. >> >> When an INVITE transaction is going on, obviously there is no need for the UAC to intentionally send an UPDATE for a new negotiation of session timer. >> But UAs send an UPDATE for various reasons(offer/answer, precondition, etc.), so we should prescribe a procedure to send an UPDATE request and response regardless of a session-timer. > Correct. And, my suggestion is that the UAC should include the same values (Supported, S-E etc) in the UDPATE. > > But, my issue was the UAS behavior if it, for whatever reason, receives an UPDATE that only contains Supported: timer. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > From nobody Tue Oct 23 05:30:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A900B130EBA for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:30:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.77 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.77 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=WUKEW0yF; 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Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 12:30:55 -0000 SGksDQogICAgDQo+ICAgIElmIGFsbCBlbnRpdGllcyhVQUMsIFVBUyBhbmQgcHJveHkpIGFyZSBh d2FyZSB0aGF0IGFuIElOVklURSB0cmFuc2FjdGlvbg0KPiAgICBpcyBnb2luZyBvbiB3aXRoIGEg bmVnb3RpYXRpb24gb2Ygc2Vzc2lvbiB0aW1lciwgdGhleSBvbmx5IGhhdmUgdG8NCj4gICAgaWdu b3JlIFNFIGFuZCBNaW4tU0UgaGVhZGVyLg0KPiAgICBUaGVyZWZvcmUgVUFDIGRvZXMgbm90IGlu c2VydCBTRSBhbmQgTWluLVNFIGluIHRoZSByZXF1ZXN0LCBwcm94eSBkb2VzDQo+ICAgIG5vdCBh ZGQgb3IgbW9kaWZ5IFNFIGFuZCBNaW4tU0UgaW4gdGhlIHJlcXVlc3QgYW5kIFVBUyBkb2VzIG5v dCBpbnNlcnQNCj4gICAgU0UgaW4gdGhlIHJlc3BvbnNlLiBPZiBjb3Vyc2UgcHJveHkgYW5kIFVB UyBkb2VzIG5vdCByZWplY3QgdGhlIHJlcXVlc3QNCj4gICAgYnkgNDIyIHJlc3BvbnNlLg0KICAN 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[209.85.215.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r81-v6sm7604855pfa.110.2018.10.23.05.41.09 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f174.google.com with SMTP id r190-v6so570864pgr.13 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:41:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:3911:: with SMTP id g17-v6mr2191536pfa.170.1540298468873; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:41:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:41:01 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000015dd280578e4af65" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 12:41:15 -0000 --00000000000015dd280578e4af65 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Shinji, On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:10 AM OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > If all entities(UAC, UAS and proxy) are aware that an INVITE transaction > is going on with a negotiation of session timer, they only have to > ignore SE and Min-SE header. > Therefore UAC does not insert SE and Min-SE in the request, proxy does > not add or modify SE and Min-SE in the request and UAS does not insert > SE in the response. Of course proxy and UAS does not reject the request > by 422 response. > > Proxy is not going to be aware that there is an INVITE transaction going on that negotiates session timer without significant changes on how proxies operates. Furthermore, because of network transmission delays and timing UAC, UAS, and proxy can be of different opinion if INVITE transaction is ongoing. Because of this your suggestion is not viable. Normal behavior should be: 1. If an element (UAC, Proxy, UAS) needs a session refresh, it should insert this value in S-E header if not present. 2. If element has a constraint on how often it can perform session refresh, it should insert it into Min-SE value, if not present. 3. If S-E header is present and current value of S-E is higher then desired session refresh interval, element should reduce S-E value to the desired value, as long as it is higher then Min-SE. 4. If S-E is lower then minimum supported refresh interval, message should be refused with 422. 5. If Min-SE in the message is lower then minimum supported refresh, Min-SE value should be increased to minimum supported refresh interval. If these rules are followed, as long as desired refresh interval and minimum supported refresh interval stay the same for each network element, negotiation always ends up with the same result. There are a few more complications, such as dealing with only one element supporting session timer, dealing with situation where network elements do not follow those rules or being malicious, but these are, essentially edge cases. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000015dd280578e4af65 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Shinji,


On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:10 AM O= KUMURA Shinji <ietf.shinji@gmai= l.com> wrote:
If all entitie= s(UAC, UAS and proxy) are aware that an INVITE transaction
is going on with a negotiation of session timer, they only have to
ignore SE and Min-SE header.
Therefore UAC does not insert SE and Min-SE in the request, proxy does
not add or modify SE and Min-SE in the request and UAS does not insert
SE in the response. Of course proxy and UAS does not reject the request
by 422 response.


Proxy is not going= to be aware that there is an INVITE transaction going on that negotiates s= ession timer without significant changes on how proxies operates. Furthermo= re, because of network transmission delays and timing UAC, UAS, and proxy c= an be of different opinion if INVITE transaction is ongoing. Because of thi= s your suggestion is not viable.

Normal behavior s= hould be:

1. If an element (UAC, Proxy, UAS) needs= a session refresh, it should insert this value in S-E header if not presen= t.=C2=A0
2. If element has a constraint on how often it can perfo= rm session refresh, it should insert it into Min-SE value, if not present.= =C2=A0
3. If S-E header is present and current value of S-E is hi= gher then desired session refresh interval, element should reduce S-E value= to the desired value, as long as it is higher then Min-SE.=C2=A0
4. If S-E is lower then minimum supported refresh interval, message should= be refused with 422.=C2=A0
5. If Min-SE in the message is lower = then minimum supported refresh, Min-SE value should be increased to minimum= supported refresh interval.=C2=A0

If these rules = are followed, as long as desired refresh interval and minimum supported ref= resh interval stay the same for each network element, negotiation always en= ds up with the same result.=C2=A0

There are a few = more complications, such as dealing with only one element supporting sessio= n timer, dealing with situation where network elements do not follow those = rules or being malicious, but these are, essentially edge cases.
=
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--00000000000015dd280578e4af65-- From nobody Tue Oct 23 07:41:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9E5128D09 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:41:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y8q78Rn5sxvN for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu [18.7.68.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFC7D128BCC for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:41:29 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074414-347ff70000006380-74-5bcf33172c94 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 16.A9.25472.7133FCB5; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 10:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9NEfQjP004168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 10:41:27 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 10:41:26 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqCthfD7a4OwtJouvPzaxOTB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEro/PPVbaCGUoV5zbXNDC+kOpi5OSQEDCR2H3hNUsXIxeHkMBB Jold1x4yQjg/mCQmfOxlA6kSFiiROHkKJMHJISIgIvFs+j+wuJDAIiaJj+9qQGw2AS2JOYf+ A03i4OAVsJc4crICJMwioCrxYPtLsFZRgTSJv51LwGxeAUGJkzOfsIDYnAKBEuduL2EHsZkF zCTmbX7IDGGLS9x6Mp8JwpaX2P52DvMERv5ZSNpnIWmZhaRlFpKWBYwsqxjlEnNKc3VzEzNz ilOTdYuTE/PyUot0LfRyM0v0UlNKNzFCQlJkB+ORk3KHGAU4GJV4eHf8PxstxJpYVlyZe4hR koNJSZQ3VOd8tBBfUn5KZUZicUZ8UWlOavEhRgkOZiURXmUNoBxvSmJlVWpRPkxKmoNFSZyX 2WRvlJBAemJJanZqakFqEUxWhoNDSYLX0wioUbAoNT21Ii0zpwQhzcTBCTKcB2i4NkgNb3FB Ym5xZjpE/hSjLseer00zmIVY8vLzUqXEeRNAigRAijJK8+DmwFLJK0ZxoLeEeb8bAlXxANMQ 3KRXQEuYgJZcVz8DsqQkESEl1cDYLPu8Rlq4OmnVsmUuh/XMhaZNVN3TfITlXmDKpsyd8y35 pnznYJs1dSKv5h2Oj+GzhTTe2yr+mrjv6vs9bIcd97gV75+g+unOhN0u+yqSVxyvyPp1rfa+ ePSLyribgpPFXsv9cnauDXQMU7Wb6yVyJbeBm8PiUPK++TbxHN6uyS8ly/dqVmgpsRRnJBpq MRcVJwIAx88oIAADAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:41:32 -0000 On 10/23/18 8:41 AM, Roman Shpount wrote: > Hi Shinji, > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:10 AM OKUMURA Shinji > wrote: > > If all entities(UAC, UAS and proxy) are aware that an INVITE transaction > is going on with a negotiation of session timer, they only have to > ignore SE and Min-SE header. > Therefore UAC does not insert SE and Min-SE in the request, proxy does > not add or modify SE and Min-SE in the request and UAS does not insert > SE in the response. Of course proxy and UAS does not reject the request > by 422 response. > > > Proxy is not going to be aware that there is an INVITE transaction going > on that negotiates session timer without significant changes on how > proxies operates. I don't understand how this can be so hard. Assuming the proxy is transaction stateful, it has awareness that there is an INVITE transaction in progress. Stateless proxies are a different story, but they shouldn't be involved in session timer. Or are you thinking of cases where there are redundant proxies, and the UPDATE goes to a different proxy than the INVITE? > Furthermore, because of network transmission delays > and timing UAC, UAS, and proxy can be of different opinion if INVITE > transaction is ongoing. This does potentially cause trouble. It is a good place to focus attention. The sender of the UPDATE is the one that potentially initiates the confusion here. So I think it is obligated to construct the UPDATE so that it will be properly handled regardless of what order the other parties receive it. A good place to start would be to say that a UA MUST NOT send an UPDATE containing an S-E within an INVITE that didn't have an S-E. > Because of this your suggestion is not viable. > > Normal behavior should be: Are you suggesting that the below rules apply independently to each message (INVITE/UPDATE request/response)? It would certainly be nice to have such a simple approach if it can be made to work. > 1. If an element (UAC, Proxy, UAS) needs a session refresh, it should > insert this value in S-E header if not present. What is "this value"? And insert it in what? Can the element's "need" for session refresh change over the course of a dialog? Are there any constraints on when and how it can change? > 2. If element has a constraint on how often it can perform session > refresh, it should insert it into Min-SE value, if not present. > 3. If S-E header is present and current value of S-E is higher then > desired session refresh interval, element should reduce S-E value to the > desired value, as long as it is higher then Min-SE. > 4. If S-E is lower then minimum supported refresh interval, message > should be refused with 422. > 5. If Min-SE in the message is lower then minimum supported refresh, > Min-SE value should be increased to minimum supported refresh interval. Note that changes in values can only occur in requests. Once a response has been sent the values can't change along the path, else there will be disagreement on what the values are. You only state the rules for what is inserted. You aren't saying how those need to be acted upon. For instance, what if a UAS has received an INVITE with one set of values, and an UPDATE with a different set of values? What should go in the responses to each? And what if a UAC has received a response to a nested UPDATE with one set of values, and then an INVITE response with a different set? We need to cover all the potentially troublesome orderings, including the ones that include message reordering. I expect we will need to actually enumerate these and verify that whatever we specify works for them all. > If these rules are followed, as long as desired refresh interval and > minimum supported refresh interval stay the same for each network > element, negotiation always ends up with the same result. > > There are a few more complications, such as dealing with only one > element supporting session timer, dealing with situation where network > elements do not follow those rules or being malicious, but these are, > essentially edge cases. The edge cases must be covered, though perhaps not protocol violations. Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Oct 23 07:47:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97DE31294D0 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:47:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rqkJpIYx0T_Z for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34F64128BCC for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id b9-v6so417363pls.7 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:47:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=4D6cKVbq5zWLwMrXBKl1IJ4goqs2BixzlZC3ns+niY4=; b=hVaF2iR8NoxRg46ppQiChbAGkt2c6hkLwMCtiMN2vlvZWmw8QwH9Vq0vIIfRXuGlpD dDSOHAwFZgQYat30L+OahldYea9K6UUNu3uzIf2K2CECCApDEfQJqpKKXs/2PdsHI7/1 gIDdgN+AgtaU/YNjPFd0hlFD5xKSo0d3lX5xCMM98ficwVY3CYyn21Olg/ASFUwlfOZi T80uRlf2DlHnmRXaeYwjuGF2DVGVSk3WvY99+bXYyrQVPoT5jxjrqcE6VJBoeyyvzQw8 XkctY65CqUo85tJVdbZuMSkeMp4E4nWcniuxPHpNga4fwdTCR1uJarU/8lRx9sGrnlZ+ 9DEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=4D6cKVbq5zWLwMrXBKl1IJ4goqs2BixzlZC3ns+niY4=; b=pQAgONx7Er6XMrCkM1lWlXkE0b4tPJo5beVMEos9DLxUnKIecXRHOk6wxGhJGtoW/k N10TLKueRus2Kp+TUIT1rYUWmaOlnSqBOPjs0p9QVghaNDM/kpYLEPYTS6RKYEuHocJj 9hr4cMlMhlR0pAAtecGgeNrLfu40NQCA1cyQxV50UOTGcL7gGoFrr851vJZJQcacrDW3 khxlMCy4GikAOUNhKYMU8XfsqN+6T0SwYyv1iuyervCI+359ZcemDjG4mDthMnJ784pW drdyWcjssoGP3gXbLRu4SxupcrUNHe1wnY5p23e35YbvKFUZrZr2SqFhQEhmZfzy1rKM TLkg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohljkHV3O8jn4BITE7Ihq8LugOCaUrCs1gI0YbJcHUzt253jAyi Fk8wKa/2AoqIJ5cDOI1EObw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62pOZDA5wX/o1o1Pg2LtP+YCYJ4DVP/4bMFF9SrN79hDCB901bFVm3w42KcZDe6D7ez0Fz/Ig== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7b83:: with SMTP id w3-v6mr49284793pll.285.1540306042499; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e64-v6sm2131381pfe.55.2018.10.23.07.47.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:47:21 -0700 (PDT) To: "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <03FF0C6C-10B1-4A5A-BEA8-2A52C27DD6A2@ericsson.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 23:47:18 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <03FF0C6C-10B1-4A5A-BEA8-2A52C27DD6A2@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181023-0, 2018/10/23), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:47:26 -0000 Hi, Although it may be best to be able to decide the response regardless an INVITE transaction, is this possible? If a UAS receives an UPDATE while an INVITE transaction was going on, the UAS has to respond immediately. But if the UAS can not decide SE until the precondition is met, what should the UAS set for SE? Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/23 21:30, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >> If all entities(UAC, UAS and proxy) are aware that an INVITE transaction >> is going on with a negotiation of session timer, they only have to >> ignore SE and Min-SE header. >> Therefore UAC does not insert SE and Min-SE in the request, proxy does >> not add or modify SE and Min-SE in the request and UAS does not insert >> SE in the response. Of course proxy and UAS does not reject the request >> by 422 response. > > The UAs and proxies may have different opinion on whether an INVITE transaction is ongoing, as messages may get delayed in the network etc. > > I think we should try to have common procedures, no matter whether a request/response is sent/received within an ongoing INVITE transaction or not. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > On 2018/10/23 18:17, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Hi, > > > > >> First, I think there is a spelling error. It should be “that the UAC is indicating support for timers”. > > > > > > This is already reported. > > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid632 > > > > Ok. Good. > > > >>> Second, I think it should be clarified that, in the case of an ongoing session timer INVITE transaction, the UAS should also in this case > >>> insert whatever S-E value it intends to insert in the 2XX response to the INVITE. > >> > >> When an INVITE transaction is going on, obviously there is no need for the UAC to intentionally send an UPDATE for a new negotiation of session timer. > >> But UAs send an UPDATE for various reasons(offer/answer, precondition, etc.), so we should prescribe a procedure to send an UPDATE request and response regardless of a session-timer. > > Correct. And, my suggestion is that the UAC should include the same values (Supported, S-E etc) in the UDPATE. > > > > But, my issue was the UAS behavior if it, for whatever reason, receives an UPDATE that only contains Supported: timer. > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > > > > > > > From nobody Tue Oct 23 07:52:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F5D1294D0 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:52:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.77 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.77 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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aG91bGQgaW5jbHVkZSB0aGUgc2FtZSB2YWx1ZXMgKFN1cHBvcnRlZCwgUy1FIGV0YykgaW4gdGhl IFVEUEFURS4NCiAgICA+ICAgICA+DQogICAgPiAgICAgPiBCdXQsIG15IGlzc3VlIHdhcyB0aGUg VUFTIGJlaGF2aW9yIGlmIGl0LCBmb3Igd2hhdGV2ZXIgcmVhc29uLCByZWNlaXZlcyBhbiBVUERB VEUgdGhhdCBvbmx5IGNvbnRhaW5zIFN1cHBvcnRlZDogdGltZXIuDQogICAgPiAgICAgPg0KICAg ID4gICAgID4gUmVnYXJkcywNCiAgICA+ICAgICA+DQogICAgPiAgICAgPiBDaHJpc3Rlcg0KICAg ID4gICAgID4NCiAgICA+ICAgICA+ICAgICANCiAgICA+ICAgICA+ICAgICANCiAgICA+ICAgICA+ ICAgICANCiAgICA+ICAgICA+DQogICAgPiAgICAgDQogICAgPiAgICAgDQogICAgPg0KICAgIA0K ICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Oct 23 07:59:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 782F11286E7 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:59:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7EAMMpvkwyCp for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:59:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu [18.7.68.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA7312F18C for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:59:21 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074413-50dff70000006a37-19-5bcf3748c03f Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id FB.6A.27191.8473FCB5; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 10:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9NExJAR005404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 23 Oct 2018 10:59:19 -0400 To: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <03FF0C6C-10B1-4A5A-BEA8-2A52C27DD6A2@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 10:59:19 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprGKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqOthfj7aYOF3cYsLMw8zWizpX8Nm 8fXHJjYHZo9fX6+yeeycdZfdY8mSn0wBzFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGTt2TGMrmCdesX/jAfYG xkbBLkZODgkBE4m9exeydjFycQgJHGSSmLbvNTOE85BJYs/sV2wgVcICJRInTz1kBLFFBKIk Njw7wAxiMwuYSfR/bmSDaDjCJLFlwlWwIjYBLYk5h/6zgNi8AvYS195vYQKxWQRUJQ7vnQcW FxVIk/jbuYQRokZQ4uTMJ2BxTgFbiY/7m1hhFszb/BBqmbjErSfzmSBseYnmrbOZJzAKzELS PgtJyywkLbOQtCxgZFnFKJeYU5qrm5uYmVOcmqxbnJyYl5dapGuul5tZopeaUrqJERLYwjsY d52UO8QowMGoxMO74//ZaCHWxLLiytxDjJIcTEqivKE656OF+JLyUyozEosz4otKc1KLDzFK cDArifAqawDleFMSK6tSi/JhUtIcLErivMwme6OEBNITS1KzU1MLUotgsjIcHEoSvJ1mQI2C RanpqRVpmTklCGkmDk6Q4TxAwxeB1PAWFyTmFmemQ+RPMRpz7PnaNIOZo+Fp2wxmIZa8/LxU KXHeWyClAiClGaV5cNNgyekVozjQc8K8G0GqeICJDW7eK6BVTECrrqufAVlVkoiQkmpgNFS2 PNOiY9F4YV0XzxbL1S3PhcLFrmScSkso+WnKwu2x0lvfZO+twwx2j3jqO2r/H3gvtns2x48l 6f+8KhW3X/w3vTPbyfAd20v/b3F3uKV4fGsmBT37qvpCoPYiS4ET64arMdWm54x3vPRTjzvR cYHnxhONJ135O+4F7UnRed1898Uae44XSizFGYmGWsxFxYkAgePwJikDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:59:24 -0000 On 10/23/18 10:47 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi, > > Although it may be best to be able to decide the response regardless an > INVITE transaction, is this possible? > > If a UAS receives an UPDATE while an INVITE transaction was going on, > the UAS has to respond immediately. But if the UAS can not decide SE > until the precondition is met, what should the UAS set for SE? That is a tricky case. Like Christer, I wonder if preconditions would ever affect this. If they do, perhaps the answer has to be to use a separate transaction after the INVITE is complete, to reset the timer to be consistent with the preconditions. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > Shinji > > On 2018/10/23 21:30, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> Hi, >> >>> If all entities(UAC, UAS and proxy) are aware that an INVITE transaction >>> is going on with a negotiation of session timer, they only have to >>> ignore SE and Min-SE header. >>> Therefore UAC does not insert SE and Min-SE in the request, proxy does >>> not add or modify SE and Min-SE in the request and UAS does not insert >>> SE in the response. Of course proxy and UAS does not reject the request >>> by 422 response. >> >> The UAs and proxies may have different opinion on whether an INVITE transaction is ongoing, as messages may get delayed in the network etc. >> >> I think we should try to have common procedures, no matter whether a request/response is sent/received within an ongoing INVITE transaction or not. >> >> Regards, >> >> Christer >> >> >> >> On 2018/10/23 18:17, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > >> First, I think there is a spelling error. It should be “that the UAC is indicating support for timers”. >> > > >> > > This is already reported. >> > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid632 >> > >> > Ok. Good. >> > >> >>> Second, I think it should be clarified that, in the case of an ongoing session timer INVITE transaction, the UAS should also in this case >> >>> insert whatever S-E value it intends to insert in the 2XX response to the INVITE. >> >> >> >> When an INVITE transaction is going on, obviously there is no need for the UAC to intentionally send an UPDATE for a new negotiation of session timer. >> >> But UAs send an UPDATE for various reasons(offer/answer, precondition, etc.), so we should prescribe a procedure to send an UPDATE request and response regardless of a session-timer. >> > Correct. And, my suggestion is that the UAC should include the same values (Supported, S-E etc) in the UDPATE. >> > >> > But, my issue was the UAS behavior if it, for whatever reason, receives an UPDATE that only contains Supported: timer. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Christer >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> > > From nobody Tue Oct 23 08:11:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65AB91286E7 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:11:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bkEMxeKVN27h for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x535.google.com (mail-pg1-x535.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::535]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 934D9130934 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 32-v6so807521pgu.2 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:11:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Tp5KFrvE5dTnAbmmlOzyX+DyeJ/K2YaN7N3C6f4g7O4=; b=EGCvhr17N4uQvdDCGK7bQ7MnPq3Wb/ZzPqHz0Q/h7FfaTdMK/4atqLODMZ7DG3RDti ogTNFL0KZlCWpNK+JBgHWU9l32a60Z3cp6/Nsir8w1Bl3UoIfs5hbTyTj8N/I+/PRkEW WTvTBypQtp/ia89LfbsFGZbMLWySq1XlgsfSJEbqwzb09Q7MbphotpF8wlc8sIfNDv8u 3XC4b2ymiCufQwrwmVAyCFEXRkzlNr7/yKLZ3anr8LOwFc9ktLvrSW1SbWQCdkaALoCS Bnxgs9bzqTzY5uO9bGN0VjESfrST3ot6MN2W2R9zlsjGsk2HJLigwU7BovWsA8igLRBR BYaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Tp5KFrvE5dTnAbmmlOzyX+DyeJ/K2YaN7N3C6f4g7O4=; b=MI5IzSnq6socXOWRBKK6FS6ce7dWpzggVJGGzhM0lEKMqqJgxGMmNMp8YumeoBUEre EpemuebqCekTCDWznNrACNHGntZ2za18PywPaZxHa7vowjD+tQHxaIpeFoHsqN5IuUav bqAyH+pnz0fRcS5HFyKoOOMuh/F+IPqXG8q+Y4FqvMT8ldLj/HXvF7fWOHEKqKv5ko4b 20hecQilcAUDUjCmpGnvgNtXX7Ts1bra3LuvNyBvNztoK756E/J4buqOHTsKbcnx6yN1 C44NhJSMzm4mm01711v7u1oPe7euL2aq/b+caEDis/sX6NWXhoELOhH0RKhjJ0c/sRlR TNeQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoh/O13c/M+dl817+3ckMUZkYQ/gH+eZxhOa9TqD27589vlMkZJC apJaB1E4svD2Fp/rWS7h3WE6jkBx9Qk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61+2GT4j89tlTylu2KKPHaPAtBcrlyWR9mtMydiW+Fqh+S3qv3a9U24UpXgacxoOVI33k5FfQ== X-Received: by 2002:a62:5b43:: with SMTP id p64-v6mr51241674pfb.122.1540307481441; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-f181.google.com (mail-pg1-f181.google.com. [209.85.215.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e3-v6sm4895383pgc.71.2018.10.23.08.11.19 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f181.google.com with SMTP id 23-v6so793935pgc.8 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:11:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:b09:: with SMTP id t9-v6mr50372203pfi.36.1540307474190; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:11:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 11:11:06 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Paul Kyzivat Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d818380578e6c76d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 15:11:25 -0000 --000000000000d818380578e6c76d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Paul, On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:41 AM Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 10/23/18 8:41 AM, Roman Shpount wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:10 AM OKUMURA Shinji > > wrote: > > > > If all entities(UAC, UAS and proxy) are aware that an INVITE > transaction > > is going on with a negotiation of session timer, they only have to > > ignore SE and Min-SE header. > > Therefore UAC does not insert SE and Min-SE in the request, proxy > does > > not add or modify SE and Min-SE in the request and UAS does not > insert > > SE in the response. Of course proxy and UAS does not reject the > request > > by 422 response. > > > > > > Proxy is not going to be aware that there is an INVITE transaction going > > on that negotiates session timer without significant changes on how > > proxies operates. > > I don't understand how this can be so hard. Assuming the proxy is > transaction stateful, it has awareness that there is an INVITE > transaction in progress. Stateless proxies are a different story, but > they shouldn't be involved in session timer. > > Or are you thinking of cases where there are redundant proxies, and the > UPDATE goes to a different proxy than the INVITE? > Having redundant proxies with different proxies processing different transactions is a good example of what can cause difficulty for inter-transaction ruls. The other reason for this difficulty is that proxy will need to update dialog state a lot more often to deal with the special rules for Update transactions during INVITE. I have addressed this problem before on the list. The best way to think about this problem is to look at OpenSIPS/Kamilio configuration and see how easy it is to express proposed rules using configuration scripts for these proxies. > Furthermore, because of network transmission delays > > and timing UAC, UAS, and proxy can be of different opinion if INVITE > > transaction is ongoing. > > This does potentially cause trouble. It is a good place to focus attention. > It actually does not cause trouble unless network elements (UA or proxies) are doing something random. The sender of the UPDATE is the one that potentially initiates the > confusion here. So I think it is obligated to construct the UPDATE so > that it will be properly handled regardless of what order the other > parties receive it. > > A good place to start would be to say that a UA MUST NOT send an UPDATE > containing an S-E within an INVITE that didn't have an S-E. > This is not necessary. > > Because of this your suggestion is not viable. > > > > Normal behavior should be: > > Are you suggesting that the below rules apply independently to each > message (INVITE/UPDATE request/response)? It would certainly be nice to > have such a simple approach if it can be made to work. > Yes, these messages should apply independently to each request. Only time responses need to be mentioned are in cases of UAS, when response is being generated or proxy, when UAS does not support session timer and S-E is inserted in the response by the proxy. > 1. If an element (UAC, Proxy, UAS) needs a session refresh, it should > > insert this value in S-E header if not present. > > What is "this value"? And insert it in what? > Each network element should to know that it needs dialog refreshed at least every X seconds (can be infinite, if no refresh is needed) but not more often then Yseconds (can be zero). This element should insert S-E with value X (if X is not infinite) if S-E is not present in the request. It should reduce S-E to X if S-E is present in the request and greater then X. It should insert Min-SE with value Y if Min-SE is not present in the request and Y is not 0. It should reduce Min-SE to Y if Min-SE is present in the request and its value is higher then Y. > Can the element's "need" for session refresh change over the course of a > dialog? Are there any constraints on when and how it can change? > Yes, this can change but only at the point when there are no transactions in progress. In practice this change almost never happens except due to 3pcc scenarios when one of the UA end s up being connected to a new element. > 2. If element has a constraint on how often it can perform session > > refresh, it should insert it into Min-SE value, if not present. > > 3. If S-E header is present and current value of S-E is higher then > > desired session refresh interval, element should reduce S-E value to the > > desired value, as long as it is higher then Min-SE. > > 4. If S-E is lower then minimum supported refresh interval, message > > should be refused with 422. > > 5. If Min-SE in the message is lower then minimum supported refresh, > > Min-SE value should be increased to minimum supported refresh interval. > > Note that changes in values can only occur in requests. Once a response > has been sent the values can't change along the path, else there will be > disagreement on what the values are. > This is correct. You only state the rules for what is inserted. You aren't saying how > those need to be acted upon. For instance, what if a UAS has received an > INVITE with one set of values, and an UPDATE with a different set of > values? What should go in the responses to each? > Responses from UAS should be generated based on the described rules. I did not cover the refresher role. And what if a UAC has received a response to a nested UPDATE with one > set of values, and then an INVITE response with a different set? > With the rules that I have proposed this will never happen. We need to cover all the potentially troublesome orderings, including > the ones that include message reordering. I expect we will need to > actually enumerate these and verify that whatever we specify works for > them all. > I actually did. At some point in the past I wrote a state machine generator and validated all possible scenarios. > If these rules are followed, as long as desired refresh interval and > > minimum supported refresh interval stay the same for each network > > element, negotiation always ends up with the same result. > > > > There are a few more complications, such as dealing with only one > > element supporting session timer, dealing with situation where network > > elements do not follow those rules or being malicious, but these are, > > essentially edge cases. > > The edge cases must be covered, though perhaps not protocol violations. > > Yes, once we update the document we should cover all edge cases and recovery behavior (send a new UPDATE/INVITE transaction when in doubt). Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000d818380578e6c76d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Paul,

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:41 AM Paul Kyzivat <<= a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote= :
On 10/23/18 8:41 AM, Roman Shpoun= t wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:10 AM OKUMURA Shinji <ietf.shinji@gmail.com
> <mailto:= ietf.shinji@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If all entities(UAC, UAS and proxy) are aware that = an INVITE transaction
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is going on with a negotiation of session timer, th= ey only have to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ignore SE and Min-SE header.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Therefore UAC does not insert SE and Min-SE in the = request, proxy does
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0not add or modify SE and Min-SE in the request and = UAS does not insert
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SE in the response. Of course proxy and UAS does no= t reject the request
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by 422 response.
>
>
> Proxy is not going to be aware that there is an INVITE transaction goi= ng
> on that negotiates session timer without significant changes on how > proxies operates.

I don't understand how this can be so hard. Assuming the proxy is
transaction stateful, it has awareness that there is an INVITE
transaction in progress. Stateless proxies are a different story, but
they shouldn't be involved in session timer.

Or are you thinking of cases where there are redundant proxies, and the UPDATE goes to a different proxy than the INVITE?
=C2= =A0
Having redundant proxies with different proxies processing di= fferent transactions is a good example of what can cause difficulty for int= er-transaction ruls. The other reason for this difficulty is that proxy wil= l need to update dialog state a lot more often to deal with the special rul= es for Update transactions during INVITE. I have addressed this problem bef= ore on the list. The best way to think about this problem is to look at Ope= nSIPS/Kamilio configuration and see how easy it is to express proposed rule= s using configuration scripts for these proxies.

> Furthermore, because of network transmission = delays
> and timing UAC, UAS, and proxy can be of different opinion if INVITE <= br> > transaction is ongoing.

This does potentially cause trouble. It is a good place to focus attention.=
=C2=A0
It actually does not cause trouble u= nless network elements (UA or proxies) are doing something random.

The sender of the UPDATE is the = one that potentially initiates the
confusion here. So I think it is obligated to construct the UPDATE so
that it will be properly handled regardless of what order the other
parties receive it.

A good place to start would be to say that a UA MUST NOT send an UPDATE containing an S-E within an INVITE that didn't have an S-E.
=C2=A0
This is not necessary.
=C2=A0
> Because of this your suggestion is not via= ble.
>
> Normal behavior should be:

Are you suggesting that the below rules apply independently to each
message (INVITE/UPDATE request/response)? It would certainly be nice to have such a simple approach if it can be made to work.
=C2=A0
Yes, these messages should apply independently to each re= quest. Only time responses need to be mentioned are in cases of UAS, when r= esponse is being generated or proxy, when UAS does not support session time= r and S-E is inserted in the response by the proxy.

> 1. If an element (UAC, Proxy, UAS) needs a= session refresh, it should
> insert this value in S-E header if not present.

What is "this value"? And insert it in what?

Each network element should to know that it needs dialog re= freshed at least every X seconds (can be infinite, if no refresh is needed)= but not more often then Yseconds (can be zero). This element should insert= S-E with value X (if X is not infinite) if S-E is not present in the reque= st. It should reduce S-E to X if S-E is present in the request and greater = then X. It should insert Min-SE with value Y if Min-SE is not present in th= e request and Y is not 0. It should reduce Min-SE to Y if Min-SE is present= in the request and its value is higher then Y.
=C2=A0
Can the element's "need" for sessio= n refresh change over the course of a
dialog? Are there any constraints on when and how it can change?
=C2=A0
Yes, this can change but only at the point when= there are no transactions in progress. In practice this change almost neve= r happens except due to 3pcc scenarios when one of the UA end s up being co= nnected to a new element.

You onl= y state the rules for what is inserted. You aren't saying how
those need to be acted upon. For instance, what if a UAS has received an INVITE with one set of values, and an UPDATE with a different set of
values? What should go in the responses to each?
=C2= =A0
Responses from UAS should be generated based on the described= rules. I did not cover the refresher role.

And what if a UAC has received a response to a nested U= PDATE with one
set of values, and then an INVITE response with a different set?
=C2=A0
With the rules that I have proposed this will n= ever happen.

We need to = cover all the potentially troublesome orderings, including
the ones that include message reordering. I expect we will need to
actually enumerate these and verify that whatever we specify works for
them all.
=C2=A0
I actually did. At some poi= nt in the past I wrote a state machine generator and validated all possible= scenarios.

> If thes= e rules are followed, as long as desired refresh interval and
> minimum supported refresh interval stay the same for each network
> element, negotiation always ends up with the same result.
>
> There are a few more complications, such as dealing with only one
> element supporting session timer, dealing with situation where network=
> elements do not follow those rules or being malicious, but these are, =
> essentially edge cases.

The edge cases must be covered, though perhaps not protocol violations.
=
=C2=A0Yes, once we update the document we should cove= r all edge cases and recovery behavior (send a new UPDATE/INVITE transactio= n when in doubt).

Regards,
_____________
R= oman Shpount
=C2=A0
=
--000000000000d818380578e6c76d-- From nobody Tue Oct 23 09:01:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CCCF130F8E; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 09:01:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Rosen To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: br@brianrosen.net, Brian Rosen , sipcore@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, sipcore-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <154031048144.31333.862494011045985574.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 09:01:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-sipcore-callinfo-spam-03 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 16:01:22 -0000 Brian Rosen has requested publication of draft-ietf-sipcore-callinfo-spam-03 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the SIPCORE working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-callinfo-spam/ From nobody Tue Oct 23 09:33:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DE5130F6F; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 09:33:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Rosen To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: br@brianrosen.net, Brian Rosen , sipcore@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, sipcore-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <154031239492.31220.13071266032891141053.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 09:33:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 16:33:15 -0000 Brian Rosen has requested publication of draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the SIPCORE working group. 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x13-v6sm1191891ioa.27.2018.10.23.23.53.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Oct 2018 23:53:22 -0700 (PDT) To: "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <03FF0C6C-10B1-4A5A-BEA8-2A52C27DD6A2@ericsson.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:53:20 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181023-8, 2018/10/23), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 06:53:27 -0000 Hi, On 2018/10/23 23:51, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Although it may be best to be able to decide the res= ponse regardless an >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 INVITE transaction, is this possible? >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If a UAS receives an UPDATE while an INVITE transact= ion was going on, >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the UAS has to respond immediately. But if the UAS c= an not decide SE >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 until the precondition is met, what should the UAS s= et for SE? >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Not sure why preconditions would have any impact, but perhaps we could = say that the UAS only inserts Supported/Require:timer, which basically me= ans that it wants the mechanisms but no parameters associated with the me= chanisms are negotiated as part of this transaction. That is exactly what I wanted to suggest. 1. UAS MAY send the response without Session-Expire and Min-SE headers bu= t with Supported: timer. 2. This response means that the UAS supports this mechanism but this tran= saction is irrelevant to this mechanism. I think that above rules may resolve the crossing problem. However, there is a risk of being mistaken for turn-off. Regards, Shinji From nobody Wed Oct 24 00:19:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EDA512F1A2 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:19:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1JrGv2dLMjxi for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it1-x130.google.com (mail-it1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B516130DE5 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it1-x130.google.com with SMTP id e74-v6so5328010ita.2 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:19:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:subject:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=dfIhLyn0z5ew+8fuvkegOUE57jLKEx5MSI1ZUOjEwoo=; b=aMPFc20e0gmK0J4lFf8uVo5bJ6bA5op6H8qmA8YJ6/MI/tIkIp5/Zv8mI3LHeurKEe 6LFQA7owyjwDhPnO/mOeuEyTcVj9YTd7hR0VbaQZjCCkDJ66mVuUq5pNEy2/1sQHOoOO mgtrUdkF5CgwZxb23yw33wUz04XiWaIbB2i5dN1dWP7OIJ2ToqkcQ3k5dc6AcR7Om3FY Yh4o8wuxNpWB5KG/ofL07x/LxOzPn/V6DC7k3MneK6sJtR97NU49nYTEfxEGWkWBgyeA umRCFMR80HZnFADFyXQ04jGCWQTIkQYS4lK1w56CVnBlKmVwyZwPCYJCG8O6BOO6Z5Dm e5jw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:subject :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=dfIhLyn0z5ew+8fuvkegOUE57jLKEx5MSI1ZUOjEwoo=; b=rnof8OQEEMM6jjKXjVEI/sIgtHs9MW/hkGIg3Ogj/2Xxac2uTfOGafDugaWejLVOUe 2Sv6a+wy9bzX21JYA0SRu7xxlsTw0IVB2WVS3lqBLWEQ5Xq7HQYIPGgPoyvhfz3g651R 0wQPQIOTURTTzTUcJ5xpUQgU2iKeT49dRggT1fUO2Vag1KYual0x3v0eN3nbyCxtf4u4 TOKmWquy4wsSlG3xv5ZWcnHu4pfyxEA13PqqmbPC5cReC7XgfCwSzpdv4dJRyap6tlwa DlUchVNiOpsbNPTuwM52Jv1Rxzj3dbN3qS/RiC3I7wtEEn4Nz8TuYnR2V6S+Vk3qvn2H bSOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gL0HnTLrTzWQzYuBqg+B+9GQlvNf0xyP+i8WmXUb6BJyc2an3Cp uckwuOuisjVeGEWH4+viJUk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cEI0SNVTpGcd3mrlUxS9SGetQ2wa7g4KHNUERuVP7b6Il5CjU/9PAcQSr82lYz959IcVgmkQ== X-Received: by 2002:a24:c2c5:: with SMTP id i188-v6mr765806itg.140.1540365549530; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.126] (x156176.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp. [122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l186-v6sm1852818itb.19.2018.10.24.00.19.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:19:09 -0700 (PDT) To: "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <03FF0C6C-10B1-4A5A-BEA8-2A52C27DD6A2@ericsson.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: <5fd89481-9937-1774-3fa5-0944eb0ba50e@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 16:19:06 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181023-8, 2018/10/23), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:19:14 -0000 Hi, I do not point out that preconditions affect a session timer. I point out that the UAS may not be able to make a decision on session ti= mer when receiving an UPDATE within an INVITE transaction, A precondition is just one example. #It seems that it was not a very good example. In actual precondition case, such UPDATE will be sent. In such a case, what kind of response should the UAS return? I would like to discuss it. Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/23 23:59, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 10/23/18 10:47 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Although it may be best to be able to decide the response regardless a= n >> INVITE transaction, is this possible? >> >> If a UAS receives an UPDATE while an INVITE transaction was going on, >> the UAS has to respond immediately. But if the UAS can not decide SE >> until the precondition is met, what should the UAS set for SE? > > That is a tricky case. Like Christer, I wonder if preconditions would e= ver affect this. If they do, perhaps the answer has to be to use a separa= te transaction after the INVITE is complete, to reset the timer to be con= sistent with the preconditions. > >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks, >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Paul From nobody Wed Oct 24 01:38:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7D18130E10 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 01:38:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.771 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=XKhvSMDl; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com 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c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=2ib6lwCfcD0/MyFGYp9Ct7q3bTo9NrzV4og/KcY9rko=; b=eRIuMzXJb9KN/8l5lCT/VOTY42/3CVwjS1xnG5nvzPzoGrKhK1X4ocQ6vUuEZ3t6RBXgPrcPo/wr439ajWiQz68070iWHLh8upDGN7EqTZ9DVHk6w6bLLGQfiFJlhQzSv5mHwTrf3qntKEzZKeL0HU3HaoFUunlzttkYacFALFQ= Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.57.157) by VI1PR07MB4239.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.176.6.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1294.7; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 08:38:43 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c85a:ac8f:54d8:1a77]) by VI1PR07MB4782.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c85a:ac8f:54d8:1a77%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1273.019; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 08:38:43 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z9-v6sm1481277iom.12.2018.10.25.02.08.35 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Oct 2018 02:08:36 -0700 (PDT) To: "sipcore@ietf.org" From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: <02a5869b-1722-f82e-7612-27192290fcf0@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:08:34 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181025-2, 2018/10/25), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Session-timer: S-E value in an active session refresh X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 09:08:41 -0000 Hi, I think the following is an editorial mistake. Section 7.4 of RFC 4028 says: (UAC Behavior/Generating Subsequent Session Refresh Requests) In a session refresh request sent within a dialog with an active session timer, the Session-Expires header field SHOULD be present. When present, it SHOULD be equal to the maximum of the Min-SE header field (recall that its default value when not present is 90 seconds) and the current session interval. SUGGESTION: In a session refresh request sent within a dialog with an active session timer, the Session-Expires header field SHOULD be present. When present, it SHOULD be equal to the current session interval. 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1C824EEC6BF21F449CCC748137B14779@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c7d91b07-6398-460c-a29c-08d63a5c82a5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Oct 2018 09:30:32.1918 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB1534 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupileLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9XNeh92K0wY2DnBZL+tewWXz9sYnN gclj56y77B5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MrYubmPtWATT0XT/VmMDYwdPF2MnBwSAiYS 6+ZuY+1i5OIQEjjKKDFr7iFmCOcbo8TLt/vYQKqEBJYwSRy4EA+SYBGYwCwxe2I3C0RiMpPE hskcEB2PGCV273gINIuDg03AQqL7nzaIKSIQLNGwNw6kXFjAR2Laq19grSICvhKNa26zQthG Eq/vTAazWQRUJVa33AHbyytgL9HcvY0FZIyQgI3E1bN5IGFOAVuJ019vgY1hFBCT+H5qDROI zSwgLnHryXwmiMcEJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8D2y8qIC+xPwHHawQvYkS+1c9gKpRlDj77iFUr6zE pfndjBD2NTaJQ/8kIWxdiQ9Tp0LV+0pM7VrIAmEfZ5Q4MLUewtaS2Pz7JyuEnS3R/OkwVL2V xJLDv9khbDmJVb0PWSYwGs1CcvYsoC+ZBTQl1u/ShzA9JG7OsYKoUJSY0v2QfRY4TAQlTs58 wrKAkXUVo2hxanFxbrqRkV5qUWZycXF+nl5easkmRmAKObjlt9UOxoPPHQ8xCnAwKvHwKnRc jBZiTSwrrsw9xCjBwawkwuscBxTiTUmsrEotyo8vKs1JLT7EKM3BoiTO65RmESUkkJ5Ykpqd mlqQWgSTZeLglGpgFBUMr9iyTFNlvvqEY5qfFwUZsjyPvLefc12LQeGLfrZN7VcEl8pnbPEy O9u9L6hqSpuP9WoTg0CV2PvFOpVMr7fdX/BJZNqfyKC6FX6uuW937pj15VRIW0eGXOTVoEn2 rnPnezmkp+ivvvDmhsiKO1HbvFtarYR7Zr6/VbLZPXR/n3l0gp+6EktxRqKhFnNRcSIAqFL9 ph0DAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: S-E value in an active session refresh X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 09:30:44 -0000 SGksDQoNClBsZWFzZSBvcGVuIGEgR2l0SHViIGlzc3VlIGZvciBpdCA6KQ0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0K DQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQoNCu+7v09uIDI1LzEwLzIwMTgsIDEyLjA5LCAic2lwY29yZSBvbiBiZWhh bGYgb2YgT0tVTVVSQSBTaGluamkiIDxzaXBjb3JlLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgb24gYmVoYWxm IG9mIGlldGYuc2hpbmppQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCiAgICBIaSwNCiAgICANCiAgICBJ IHRoaW5rIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgaXMgYW4gZWRpdG9yaWFsIG1pc3Rha2UuDQogICAgDQogICAg U2VjdGlvbiA3LjQgb2YgUkZDIDQwMjggc2F5czoNCiAgICAoVUFDIEJlaGF2aW9yL0dlbmVyYXRp bmcgU3Vic2VxdWVudCBTZXNzaW9uIFJlZnJlc2ggUmVxdWVzdHMpDQogICAgDQogICAgSW4gYSBz ZXNzaW9uIHJlZnJlc2ggcmVxdWVzdCBzZW50IHdpdGhpbiBhIGRpYWxvZyB3aXRoIGFuIGFjdGl2 ZQ0KICAgIHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIsIHRoZSBTZXNzaW9uLUV4cGlyZXMgaGVhZGVyIGZpZWxkIFNI T1VMRCBiZSBwcmVzZW50Lg0KICAgIFdoZW4gcHJlc2VudCwgaXQgU0hPVUxEIGJlIGVxdWFsIHRv IHRoZSBtYXhpbXVtIG9mIHRoZSBNaW4tU0UgaGVhZGVyDQogICAgZmllbGQgKHJlY2FsbCB0aGF0 IGl0cyBkZWZhdWx0IHZhbHVlIHdoZW4gbm90IHByZXNlbnQgaXMgOTAgc2Vjb25kcykNCiAgICBh bmQgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgc2Vzc2lvbiBpbnRlcnZhbC4NCiAgICANCiAgICBTVUdHRVNUSU9OOg0K ICAgIA0KICAgIEluIGEgc2Vzc2lvbiByZWZyZXNoIHJlcXVlc3Qgc2VudCB3aXRoaW4gYSBkaWFs b2cgd2l0aCBhbiBhY3RpdmUNCiAgICBzZXNzaW9uIHRpbWVyLCB0aGUgU2Vzc2lvbi1FeHBpcmVz IGhlYWRlciBmaWVsZCBTSE9VTEQgYmUgcHJlc2VudC4NCiAgICBXaGVuIHByZXNlbnQsIGl0IFNI T1VMRCBiZSBlcXVhbCB0byB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBzZXNzaW9uIGludGVydmFsLg0KICAgIA0KICAg IFJlZ2FyZHMsDQogICAgU2hpbmppDQogICAgDQogICAgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCiAgICBzaXBjb3JlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIHNp cGNvcmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L3NpcGNvcmUNCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Thu Oct 25 02:50:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683BB130E08 for ; 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d18-v6sm9025025pgd.86.2018.10.25.02.50.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Oct 2018 02:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Roman Shpount References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T To: SIPCORE Message-ID: <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:50:44 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181025-2, 2018/10/25), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 09:50:49 -0000 Hi Roman, On 2018/10/23 21:41, Roman Shpount wrote: > Normal behavior should be: > > 1. If an element (UAC, Proxy, UAS) needs a session refresh, it should >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 insert this value in S-E header if not present. > 2. If element has a constraint on how often it can perform session refr= esh, >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 it should insert it into Min-SE value, if not present= =2E > 3. If S-E header is present and current value of S-E is higher then des= ired >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 session refresh interval, element should reduce S-E v= alue to the desired >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value, as long as it is higher then Min-SE. > 4. If S-E is lower then minimum supported refresh interval, message sho= uld >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 be refused with 422. > 5. If Min-SE in the message is lower then minimum supported refresh, Mi= n-SE >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value should be increased to minimum supported refres= h interval. > > If these rules are followed, as long as desired refresh interval and > minimum supported refresh interval stay the same for each network eleme= nt, > negotiation always ends up with the same result. This might be an edge case. Assume that the acceptable refresh-interval for both UAs is between 1800 = and 3600. And for the sake of simplicity, here is no proxy. Within an initial INVITE transaction, both UAs send an UPDATE at the same= time. UA-A sends UPDATE with S-E:2000 and Min-SE:1800. UA-B sends UPDATE with S-E:1800 and Min-SE:1800. and, UA-B sends response for UPDATE with S-E:2000. UA-A sends response for UPDATE with S-E:1800. These results are different. Regards, Shinji From nobody Thu Oct 25 02:55:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F47130E31 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 02:55:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VeVJA9kNi4Bp for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 02:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x829.google.com (mail-qt1-x829.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::829]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A43C8130E2B for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 02:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x829.google.com with SMTP id g10-v6so9067126qtq.6 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 02:55:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=E9dHK0WU2l1BCdDtQ4Qma7Gg0cJF77SgCkGPKkGtWEA=; b=LyXaCy7AZbQJ5799vT+5OoUuZo9b3njPrJcr7Mxip16bH9dckIyrRN9zL3Q4RYN6Hd O7aAp0CWeRbotllVeJvZbVydIxscqVMH+JevyRzcp34mPFVDT5oqvTcoJCSAschmVbwy w/UoaVpmKvptDjQ0dLnDXgVeC0PQZFGiFmZwnpNhQvXF5ct5xTP3spE/1WG8WfheyhLJ jzyVhb+eBD3FTcmT6UtaAgNXrwt2yxzFHQ8diR71LdmgSwDLwg/B6hBRDlIzxPfm4mvu l/Cp7S8LEgtkpn+GEMixYJLcempQNoKTrAEHhXTbns3RJRY9bpPmggKS9xDJsSpgiqvU vA+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=E9dHK0WU2l1BCdDtQ4Qma7Gg0cJF77SgCkGPKkGtWEA=; b=Fbs8MCdOxyyVnFrvJkFw6J9psZ2ETJMm9q9FIkXpyMEIRLLSJu3mCzRnRdpha4Q4V8 IU80/TKFAhWQ/egCE6Wptgk1LBLSy4vWKg0OEtWDChRyVRaAbFx0AvHvTAJa0dr7Of+c 5mLHZgwd1M6Gptw3QMc4F1ClF/wZnSxuMSGMk6SCORkMh2micfflwEF4TJVte7FcEo06 eolpT7m5NsiLmSLkxwwKGiRLcfsC06uWsqE+dCb4rJV9a8YoGwZglbEotB11JsU5VZTF /391xKHWDuY6Wpa+vV4NAiHJKocxvn0EmZpo1osP48xdu00O3o5XwJB9KIPvK5JPm+zO NCcg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJ2xJLEAEg2Oc+Za9q79jeTD3uwX8D1HnGS/lZmUhbmAmqurJU5 q1pJj0f9MNcKE/Lu1ZSJnhCMob4vsQuxub0Nhh4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dUi1oImpuswcpxIELQBl+soNmsgj1XLAJ1Gj25Iyw7dq3j0G4qF47ZFuUmOd/ll0bqGTjISLd1GMplerXAWQA= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2579:: with SMTP id 54-v6mr719590qtn.88.1540461304849; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 02:55:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7E307DF6-08B3-43C1-8AA3-B6ECCB47E57A@ericsson.com> <37E1A0A8-0163-45C8-94A2-BCBDDE6E0E9C@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <37E1A0A8-0163-45C8-94A2-BCBDDE6E0E9C@ericsson.com> From: Yehoshua Gev Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:54:53 +0300 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: sipcore Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dda83a05790a98ae" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push -20 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 09:55:08 -0000 --000000000000dda83a05790a98ae Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, We could add sentence saying that other methods can be defined to match the > request, but that such methods are outside the scope of the document. > > (For example, we have previously said that push-with-outbound would be > described in a separate draft.) > Great. > > But, no matter what method is used to match the request, if the proxy is > going to request a push notification, I think that the PRID must always > match. > What would rejecting the call achieve? If the UA has successfully sent a refresh REGISTER, it means it is alive and probably accessible. According to the current wording of the draft, the actual request of the push notification is done statelessly - solely according to the PRID of the Request-URI. If, at the same time (or just a moment before), the UA has changed its PRID, the push notification will probably fail. Even in such case, I don't think that the proxy MUST reject the request, due to the same reasoning that appear on the last paragraph of the section ("If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake..."). In all of those cases, the proxy has knowledge, as a refresh registration was just received. > > Another small issue, with the following paragraph: > > In case of non-2xx response to the REGISTER request, the proxy MUST > > reject the SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. > > Should we consider an attacker sending the REGISTER and being denied > > by the registrar? If so, the proxy should not perform any action on > non-2xx > > responses. > > Assuming that the attacker has the information needed to match the > request-to-be-forwarded with the REGISTER. > I agree that it might be a bit far-fetched. > ...and that the proxy knows that the REGISTER is sent by an attacker to > begin with. > It might know it by the fact that the REGISTER was rejected by an upstream entity. Additional argument against rejecting - in some cases a rejected REGISTER might trigger an immediate refresh REGISTER (e.g., authentication, 423 Interval too brief, or some application-specific logic). Thanks, Yehoshua --000000000000dda83a05790a98ae Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

We could add sentence saying that other methods can be defined to match the= request, but that such methods are outside the scope of the document.

(For example, we have previously said that push-with-outbound would be desc= ribed in a separate draft.)

Great.
=C2=A0

But, no matter what method is used to match the request, if the proxy is go= ing to request a push notification, I think that the PRID must always match= .

What would rejecting the call achieve= ?
If the UA has successfully sent a refresh REGISTER, it mean= s it is alive and probably
accessible.

A= ccording to the current wording of the draft, the actual request of the pus= h notification
is done statelessly - solely according to the PRID= of the Request-URI.
If, at the same time (or just a moment befor= e), the UA has changed its PRID, the
push notification will proba= bly fail.
Even in such case, I don't think that the proxy MUS= T reject the request,
due to the same reasoning that appear on th= e last paragraph of the section
("If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake.= .."). In all of those cases,
the proxy=C2=A0has knowledge, as a refresh registration was j= ust received.


> Another small issue, with the following paragraph:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In case of non-2xx response to the REGISTER request, the p= roxy MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0reject the SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. > Should we consider an attacker sending the REGISTER and being denied > by the registrar? If so, the proxy should not perform any action on no= n-2xx
> responses.

Assuming that the attacker has the information needed to match the request-= to-be-forwarded with the REGISTER.
=C2=A0I agree that= it might be a bit far-fetched.


...and that the proxy knows that the REGISTER is sent by an attacker to beg= in with.
It might know it by the fact that the REGISTE= R was rejected by an upstream entity.

Additional a= rgument against rejecting - in some cases a rejected REGISTER might
trigger an immediate refresh REGISTER (e.g., authentication, 423 Interva= l too brief,
or some application-specific logic).

<= /div>

Thanks,
Yehoshua
=
--000000000000dda83a05790a98ae-- From nobody Thu Oct 25 03:23:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07FF91277BB for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 03:23:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.771 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=GyUlc+es; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=X/g5BMsC Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IBouqJgKDB0z for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 03:23:39 -0700 (PDT) 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[209.85.214.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p64-v6sm5765118pfi.22.2018.10.25.09.12.12 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Oct 2018 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f174.google.com with SMTP id d23-v6so4066478pls.11 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8c86:: with SMTP id t6-v6mr2118661plo.55.1540483932114; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:12:02 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008e576105790fdd68" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 16:12:17 -0000 --0000000000008e576105790fdd68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Shinji, I am not sure I quite understand your example. If acceptable refresh-interval for both UAs is between 1800 and 3600, both should send UPDATE with Min-SE: 1800 and S-E: 3600. UA should not just set S-E to a random value in their acceptable range. It should be set to the max. Second, if both UA send UPDATE, this should be treated as collision and UPDATE should fail with 491 (Request Pending). Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 5:50 AM OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi Roman, > > On 2018/10/23 21:41, Roman Shpount wrote: > > Normal behavior should be: > > > > 1. If an element (UAC, Proxy, UAS) needs a session refresh, it should > > insert this value in S-E header if not present. > > 2. If element has a constraint on how often it can perform session > refresh, > > it should insert it into Min-SE value, if not present. > > 3. If S-E header is present and current value of S-E is higher then > desired > > session refresh interval, element should reduce S-E value to the > desired > > value, as long as it is higher then Min-SE. > > 4. If S-E is lower then minimum supported refresh interval, message > should > > be refused with 422. > > 5. If Min-SE in the message is lower then minimum supported refresh, > Min-SE > > value should be increased to minimum supported refresh interval. > > > > If these rules are followed, as long as desired refresh interval and > > minimum supported refresh interval stay the same for each network > element, > > negotiation always ends up with the same result. > > This might be an edge case. > > Assume that the acceptable refresh-interval for both UAs is between 1800 > and 3600. > And for the sake of simplicity, here is no proxy. > > Within an initial INVITE transaction, both UAs send an UPDATE at the same > time. > > UA-A sends UPDATE with S-E:2000 and Min-SE:1800. > UA-B sends UPDATE with S-E:1800 and Min-SE:1800. > > and, > > UA-B sends response for UPDATE with S-E:2000. > UA-A sends response for UPDATE with S-E:1800. > > These results are different. > > Regards, > Shinji > > > --0000000000008e576105790fdd68 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Shinji,

I am not sure I quite understan= d your example.=C2=A0=C2=A0

If acceptable refresh-= interval for both UAs is between 1800 and 3600, both should send UPDATE wit= h Min-SE: 1800 and S-E: 3600. UA should not just set S-E to a random value = in their acceptable range. It should be set to the max.

Second, if both UA send UPDATE, this should be treated as collision a= nd UPDATE should fail with=C2=A0491 (Request Pending).
<= span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">
Regards,
=
_____________
Roman Shpount


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 5:50 AM OKUMURA Shinji &= lt;ietf.shinji@gmail.com> w= rote:
Hi Roman,

On 2018/10/23 21:41, Roman Shpount wrote:
> Normal behavior should be:
>
> 1. If an element (UAC, Proxy, UAS) needs a session refresh, it should<= br> >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 insert this value in S-E header if not present.
> 2. If element has a constraint on how often it can perform session ref= resh,
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 it should insert it into Min-SE value, if not presen= t.
> 3. If S-E header is present and current value of S-E is higher then de= sired
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 session refresh interval, element should reduce S-E = value to the desired
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value, as long as it is higher then Min-SE.
> 4. If S-E is lower then minimum supported refresh interval, message sh= ould
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 be refused with 422.
> 5. If Min-SE in the message is lower then minimum supported refresh, M= in-SE
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value should be increased to minimum supported refre= sh interval.
>
> If these rules are followed, as long as desired refresh interval and > minimum supported refresh interval stay the same for each network elem= ent,
> negotiation always ends up with the same result.

This might be an edge case.

Assume that the acceptable refresh-interval for both UAs is between 1800 an= d 3600.
And for the sake of simplicity, here is no proxy.

Within an initial INVITE transaction, both UAs send an UPDATE at the same t= ime.

UA-A sends UPDATE with S-E:2000 and Min-SE:1800.
UA-B sends UPDATE with S-E:1800 and Min-SE:1800.

and,

UA-B sends response for UPDATE with S-E:2000.
UA-A sends response for UPDATE with S-E:1800.

These results are different.

Regards,
Shinji


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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x19-v6sm13431731pga.15.2018.10.25.18.55.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:55:43 -0700 (PDT) To: Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 10:55:41 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181025-4, 2018/10/25), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 01:55:46 -0000 Hi, <1st> There is no rule for UAs to set the maximum value. UAs may set any value within the acceptable range. <2nd> If either UPDATE has SDP in this case there is no rule that makes the UA to send a 491 response. And even if both values are equal, should it be treated as collision? Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/26 1:12, Roman Shpount wrote: > Shinji, > > I am not sure I quite understand your example. > > If acceptable refresh-interval for both UAs is between 1800 and 3600, both > should send UPDATE with Min-SE: 1800 and S-E: 3600. UA should not just set > S-E to a random value in their acceptable range. It should be set to the > max. > > Second, if both UA send UPDATE, this should be treated as collision and > UPDATE should fail with 491 (Request Pending). > > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount From nobody Thu Oct 25 21:41:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63EC712F1A6 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 21:41:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DeI207veNi6n for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 21:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62d.google.com (mail-pl1-x62d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C614E128D68 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 21:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id y11-v6so4897846plt.3 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 21:41:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:from:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=Qnn6gJfaKo9/c3LTaOFdA1xxaAPwdF24JnI85NwAZ6w=; b=VKtEHZO1mk8S4EGT/ACoQ8jQujwzMehWmq5iTMnJiCFMMnRf6p3gIOHhFth39hNEQ6 dIVhxtnxIqp1ppbC4iVwhy+zePwA03DBPDwea0yEGebLTMTBWafOtU7pzefTk7JNsB7k 14q5Go/2GIdQ8swEpB8YCvJ5hTCuGmASAOIykYT4ceABxCeNXty9mQICWyGtJ0KVcu5k R4XC8A7Wdl9wNNxL65lufpLNxuFrpd3FmRsnAjF5ZQkObHtZdhx+EjTeaUN6UG1fwwEq /h6fjyYZLrFtAt3qjNDymakCYAQud4P6XhVZNunKWPPNChIbacFtA61KFn+AqAkP8M+4 3m4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:from:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=Qnn6gJfaKo9/c3LTaOFdA1xxaAPwdF24JnI85NwAZ6w=; b=c5DQ8sG/FMtjDxzwxQ4zevBx641ys8BmEyDHfTuhHIKfL+TUxQh4ORyZSjj1gumoIC kXRLCX77kbCRDOn2Is9RNbkVgEJ49/+q1hLkxKiWROfWWC68fea2kcpQ6FVXpuIsrS54 VbKHSkfWveRcL7LgDgYX6D90IBbShM4igTHfTLmZHW+eUzVmqPAvjCB2dUD/9gZja+pw N/d42pTqTHh4EpAQUmYVRFEB4/awiRQ9ZeoYrjGc3G+D9nkpRto051bNucavqGULDlay RXyZ92XKkhIWlvSOqNi+T1yQAF8TnC5g/JiUSjiOu1KCdjUg94wgJKxHtJJAWf7852qI BOCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLXSQq3PyvNLoxHGRR7iYsjG4iPzqoqa9E0OvTXVurmmmZ8PMfy RpVZg+5E4UFQSPYK24B4sORvHem+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dWt81dte5aj/tTXUhVhttlVeR2fMtWGxcJBUdzV1uU2StxyyecAqAxS0ChYU++Co+JLUaEqg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8d94:: with SMTP id v20-v6mr2039283plo.109.1540528898148; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 21:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.126] (x156176.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp. [122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o2-v6sm9547985pgp.82.2018.10.25.21.41.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Oct 2018 21:41:37 -0700 (PDT) From: OKUMURA Shinji To: SIPCORE Cc: Roman Shpount References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> Message-ID: <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:41:36 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181025-4, 2018/10/25), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 04:41:41 -0000 (It is correct as follows) If either UPDATE has "no" SDP in this case, there is no rule that makes the UA to send a 491 response. On 2018/10/26 10:55, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi, > > <1st> > There is no rule for UAs to set the maximum value. > UAs may set any value within the acceptable range. > > <2nd> > If either UPDATE has SDP in this case there is no rule that makes the UA to send a 491 response. > And even if both values are equal, should it be treated as collision? > > Regards, > Shinji > > On 2018/10/26 1:12, Roman Shpount wrote: >> Shinji, >> >> I am not sure I quite understand your example. >> >> If acceptable refresh-interval for both UAs is between 1800 and 3600, both >> should send UPDATE with Min-SE: 1800 and S-E: 3600. UA should not just set >> S-E to a random value in their acceptable range. It should be set to the >> max. >> >> Second, if both UA send UPDATE, this should be treated as collision and >> UPDATE should fail with 491 (Request Pending). >> >> Regards, >> _____________ >> Roman Shpount From nobody Fri Oct 26 04:22:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69EDF130DDA for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 04:22:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DrlOgGOeIfs3 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 04:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x534.google.com (mail-pg1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::534]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F048130DD7 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 04:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x534.google.com with SMTP id r9-v6so373795pgv.6 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 04:22:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=s3TA0b6xiO0VX/+uEG9FXqeAb+M8DW+I9J1V2ouxIyw=; b=hGmV5pGzU9vo3faVgtOgp1Ex4fKq5KFcJbQR4iNiMxVjD66gig+VPCnbSI+llsZmyF J2xbWg85FJaKz1vY0rTwE1y8QycLkOBu55oRqA91xvN/YpXWH0sth5BsmSFcCxz3FtJ8 Iuqu9oDqLye/1JF1KmlXuRq0gQ7ABN/grBCG/XnQEogo2UmLuLFu5n2sIa33sBwnlw2Y MJAfmhb3u0HEhLmFzIZfecpAWQx/EyeaRcXuexgmwBPYyPhvvgBHNex6A7KQqbHZaPqN T3q7P5w8blOwACHH4owKevs9blMObjesAMfLVsuump3KPEffU63VLR/5Ofbm1xSVh0DE bToQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=s3TA0b6xiO0VX/+uEG9FXqeAb+M8DW+I9J1V2ouxIyw=; b=bA1Ei/0G5YX3dABYdcGWASxFYI50CENrA5XlLiYV67OVRvdJxVQKOtxKy7qtstTIs+ opEMDhvTv+zv9OluMmJHKJ04CxoxOEEvi0IkCAcqnTz75hT7cDp95C/CJW868nPwvC3Q Mop6ovSP5IJQNyyAmW/aTr/qSMHCL0Uwq50xEpFJKL1rKPE0yPYvtcwpTK49V1PSRhBV tE7bwggE70UcsFgGPAeB+ByoeAvB9o7KFVXmV2ozYBXPaYlJlsyjESXqQQrFq/RLxVRd DSuAVbB2otqJecmRJdMYq5a6jUtj7K/+xOskcHwKLnErVbNC45QxpGOn7a8ePKLW5m3r xkdg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKkxNXby9/Q54tYqYiJAh7UivvsLvx2HOWypNj2BqshuSOPrxNm MEHwx9wLeNDoFv7M5KavAKydjGqTArY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5ftsnMOfJQdlaUt0oH3QSuDaFNljjRR0WyrZSTr/XesLfL69HvZj0elo3QHbTN+/nnFCkPNbg== X-Received: by 2002:a62:5bc4:: with SMTP id p187-v6mr645470pfb.94.1540552963671; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 04:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-f175.google.com (mail-pl1-f175.google.com. [209.85.214.175]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t9-v6sm2234648pgl.37.2018.10.26.04.22.42 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 04:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id bh10-v6so368731plb.4 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 04:22:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8c86:: with SMTP id t6-v6mr3150431plo.55.1540552962190; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 04:22:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:22:34 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000011b5fd05791ff09a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:22:46 -0000 --00000000000011b5fd05791ff09a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Shinji, 1. The rules I was proposing was to set S-E to max and Min-SE to minimum range values for all entities, including UA. Since currently those rules do not exist, and your sequence is legal. But, like a lot of random sequences with current specification it produces random results. We need additional constraints to avoid ambiguous situations. 2. You are correct. I thought that collision rules apply to all Update messages, but it does only apply to Update messages with SDP. It needs to be analyzed further, but I think glare rule should apply to Update or it would make it impossible to change any session timer parameters non-ambiguously. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 12:41 AM OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > (It is correct as follows) > > If either UPDATE has "no" SDP in this case, there is no rule that makes > the UA to send a 491 response. > > On 2018/10/26 10:55, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > > Hi, > > > > <1st> > > There is no rule for UAs to set the maximum value. > > UAs may set any value within the acceptable range. > > > > <2nd> > > If either UPDATE has SDP in this case there is no rule that makes the UA > to send a 491 response. > > And even if both values are equal, should it be treated as collision? > > > > Regards, > > Shinji > > > > On 2018/10/26 1:12, Roman Shpount wrote: > >> Shinji, > >> > >> I am not sure I quite understand your example. > >> > >> If acceptable refresh-interval for both UAs is between 1800 and 3600, > both > >> should send UPDATE with Min-SE: 1800 and S-E: 3600. UA should not just > set > >> S-E to a random value in their acceptable range. It should be set to the > >> max. > >> > >> Second, if both UA send UPDATE, this should be treated as collision and > >> UPDATE should fail with 491 (Request Pending). > >> > >> Regards, > >> _____________ > >> Roman Shpount > > --00000000000011b5fd05791ff09a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Shinji,

1. The rules I was proposing wa= s to set S-E to max and Min-SE to minimum range values for all entities, in= cluding UA. Since currently those rules do not exist, and your sequence is = legal. But, like a lot of random sequences with current specification it pr= oduces random results. We need additional constraints to avoid ambiguous si= tuations.=C2=A0

2. You are correct. I thought that= collision rules apply to all Update messages, but it does only apply to Up= date messages with SDP. It needs to be analyzed further, but I think glare = rule should apply to Update or it would make it impossible to change any se= ssion timer parameters non-ambiguously.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018= at 12:41 AM OKUMURA Shinji <ie= tf.shinji@gmail.com> wrote:
= (It is correct as follows)

If either UPDATE has "no" SDP in this case, there is no rule that= makes the UA to send a 491 response.

On 2018/10/26 10:55, OKUMURA Shinji wrote:
> Hi,
>
> <1st>
> There is no rule for UAs to set the maximum value.
> UAs may set any value within the acceptable range.
>
> <2nd>
> If either UPDATE has SDP in this case there is no rule that makes the = UA to send a 491 response.
> And even if both values are equal, should it be treated as collision?<= br> >
> Regards,
> Shinji
>
> On 2018/10/26 1:12, Roman Shpount wrote:
>> Shinji,
>>
>> I am not sure I quite understand your example.
>>
>> If acceptable refresh-interval for both UAs is between 1800 and 36= 00, both
>> should send UPDATE with Min-SE: 1800 and S-E: 3600. UA should not = just set
>> S-E to a random value in their acceptable range. It should be set = to the
>> max.
>>
>> Second, if both UA send UPDATE, this should be treated as collisio= n and
>> UPDATE should fail with 491 (Request Pending).
>>
>> Regards,
>> _____________
>> Roman Shpount

--00000000000011b5fd05791ff09a-- From nobody Fri Oct 26 05:36:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB66C130DD7 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:36:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG=0.377, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, MISSING_MIMEOLE=1.899, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PqKLpjBKxyjD for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [212.227.15.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate 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[61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y85-v6sm18513123pfa.120.2018.10.26.07.52.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:52:33 -0700 (PDT) To: SIPCORE Cc: Roman Shpount References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: <094a5215-db47-8810-c943-98dbeae8ed6d@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:52:30 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181026-2, 2018/10/26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:52:36 -0000 Hi, UAS behavior is not random. Generally UAs do not care about the maximum value. They care only about the minimum value. Therefore UAS just copies S-E value in the response from the request. In addition, it is not certain that an UA will attach a S-E header. On 2018/10/26 20:22, Roman Shpount wrote: > Shinji, > > 1. The rules I was proposing was to set S-E to max and Min-SE to minimum > range values for all entities, including UA. Since currently those rules do > not exist, and your sequence is legal. But, like a lot of random sequences > with current specification it produces random results. We need additional > constraints to avoid ambiguous situations. From nobody Fri Oct 26 07:53:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B33C130DF6; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:53:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Rosen To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: br@brianrosen.net, Brian Rosen , sipcore@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, sipcore-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <154056558816.8770.7847946933396971262.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:53:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-20 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:53:08 -0000 Brian Rosen has requested publication of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-20 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the SIPCORE working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ From nobody Fri Oct 26 08:44:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1673130E26 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:44:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bs02Um2UCTby for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DE27130DF6 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id b11-v6so748999pfi.5 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:44:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=sMW+3O0gkGRXAu4nmg7it3S0IFvGcpqvPFfITNZID6w=; b=lO2+YhIjjhd56XVfqNGwOc/Pwy1ns9xo/+45aIE2ROl5g56aIOoSGVdOwoiiK/CCP4 +WRApDolwFDNOh/Ex3l1AS14CQOUbkT42Rom187UTMvU7UWz5DKax2aBb3k/IJHKXS6d zxpLN6coEJGHKhpmTYhZs98AeRbmSvT1bp8C4gaU09sD4jnNkmUFpx9n0vgL69OqyVdH 6M9Ad80YVnU0D1gs7G3nfStBglpstmWqQJ+Tw3iGW3/mZPM8k0ZnnNi83auOMxyGRWL9 e/BkR6T+935srRuVH3spToWYO7oWz1PQIaxdO8OcU24upHT3L0wWWKeAUk2rEQoA3oUV XoIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=sMW+3O0gkGRXAu4nmg7it3S0IFvGcpqvPFfITNZID6w=; b=kqWi908n7sZGHn5cr/ZYZA8FZZt28LNxIoxdPZ9USfgylRwXSP70izrieHSu2DpR0c EFbnEOEJOOUP6IhQCdG5BTwm1bYA6OnL51IRl68XK8stzqB23Iwm607EhZoxZdxNs2SS lQ8Fqugq56Rs9w+6gSVJREkNz0IBRrp3oyfMZ/55eBi8tb8wc5XinvvN4dCL0T7zCVOO CoeDrm++Nljh8TRdQ/W8XWoi/TOaH+UGmgCi1ty7ryyrMb3ySyDlf2iuIBYqjTLX5K0v qTWViyogyKw93CIFb7397n7jtEGGf2MmAU6EwYRWZXkmbWu9W+KoxMGD7dIja5GH249d 5Q3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKL1thCoq0OsRFqBXDnAcbNsIZzLltE7QrHZG9fNv9ZLKXBapwc u6XHf9V1ySRyW0OXJ9XoxH7dV02U X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cHu5xHbI1tiuYeWMqz/Dylc8cxSFBzB6VHeem78zDmERkddQKeTTAHkouUO7JZu+O6FU7iXw== X-Received: by 2002:a62:dbc6:: with SMTP id f189-v6mr580491pfg.130.1540568693812; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k72-v6sm26343868pfj.63.2018.10.26.08.44.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:44:53 -0700 (PDT) To: SIPCORE Cc: roland.jesske@web.de, Roman Shpount References: <5e44573f-e592-4069-b97b-c3d778374515@email.android.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 00:44:50 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5e44573f-e592-4069-b97b-c3d778374515@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181026-4, 2018/10/26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:44:56 -0000 Hi Roland, Since negotiating for a session-timer is pointless within early dialog, it is unreasonable that the UPDATE for a different purpose is rejected. So my suggestion is that UA responds the UPDATE by 200 OK, and ignores S-E header. Of course UA may reject it for other reason. Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/26 21:36, roland.jesske@web.de wrote: > Hi > But it will sent an 491 since there are open transactions on both sides. > I have seen this race condition within our network many times. But not within > the initiation state but within the refresh state. Even if there is no SDP > within the UPDATE. > The same apply for this case. Which I assume is very rare. I have never seen > such case. > Best Regards > Roland From nobody Fri Oct 26 18:59:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD919130E1A for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:59:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IQsd5lhTk-Nh for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E4FF130E0C for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id o19-v6so1251881pll.12 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:59:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PspBGRG4PSTQhdZiUocvAemiEMJINfBBdNiiZ4VTJ/s=; b=FckX5FrcZZl5TRo44SlCmidUnflNN26GC2dbsBwpyiVo//D+7AV5Ngne+5vqzshFb8 inSGPhTz5RdhMkBdFA1iyMq5oRe+e5qa7174JLHSpPXUx6CKuwARMyb/+Sfi0VNTC0aC 2L1kqam4aQe6DkI34kN8AEXYldhd1FRtM14Z4Tgg3Uvbr6C1yP0V+bt4QZMJy97nfhJn Dqswo1EHNMowQ3PrmeEGrd2CMU/9gsHhAG1hCH/XTPfJ3Z5xw/0Qm9zlgGWmdW8P4Mhc Z4roSkd3yOn9u++ZZNBf8VgOcSNIyp2Lbj6V7ovGd1Bfj+Ux7KO6NCRyYNigJz1M45rA Df7g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PspBGRG4PSTQhdZiUocvAemiEMJINfBBdNiiZ4VTJ/s=; b=ViGvzRFJUU5TYXmhEAUFSDEomvIg5J20WAvLA6W3yVZjxHL2E85r/F4bpnDKo6Xbd2 SCU94WlJj558WMxgVyaM6S2cPYNdPqnmkZQMeTF5Qhu4DWvkfZhh4+R3cD9SPdVCvylv B524thqrin3OPQJcU5k+YWQjMsBowO6wZpfulDnYHP64uad7TOsBm00faal8y8aTWDjp LRiy5FAVpHc2UJstdE5oQA66Q87bqZwDnUkUHzOnW+Bq4gXmTMozcgcjAu/wduOd7hBL cJ3ebcd48BSuvUtfiL+DMsO+U3S5zSGdcQKQFHIVWzAjwp23VOLgYQ7PiWxyp4BBB66y tBZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJZK9Ch5u/Ig+sedJG3f/2V7kMb3R/Sr6PGO/2nunr5FnH52Yka JttGzqqs2hS8i5smOCtK3RduucOeOhU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5e6kjRmPH7yYI9VHVViuaNriWzPE+5gyolVLWKve3ja+YQjZjATujDKlaEHpWiix/pl18+jFA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:5590:: with SMTP id g16-v6mr5913646pli.28.1540605580806; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-f173.google.com (mail-pl1-f173.google.com. [209.85.214.173]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e193-v6sm17804552pfg.127.2018.10.26.18.59.39 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f173.google.com with SMTP id n4-v6so700326plp.2 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:59:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:167:: with SMTP id 94-v6mr5621045plb.142.1540605579150; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:59:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> <094a5215-db47-8810-c943-98dbeae8ed6d@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <094a5215-db47-8810-c943-98dbeae8ed6d@gmail.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 21:59:27 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000048cce205792c3097" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 01:59:43 -0000 --00000000000048cce205792c3097 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Shinji, UAC behavior is random, since if the maximum allowed refresh interval is 3600, both UA should put S-E with value 3600 when sending the UPDATE request. Both should respond with 3600 since it is within their acceptable limits. Why UAC need to refresh every 3600 seconds but sends an UPDATE with S-E set to 2000 or 1800 makes no sense. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:52 AM OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi, > > UAS behavior is not random. Generally UAs do not care about the maximum > value. They care only about the minimum value. Therefore UAS just copies > S-E value in the response from the request. > In addition, it is not certain that an UA will attach a S-E header. > > On 2018/10/26 20:22, Roman Shpount wrote: > > Shinji, > > > > 1. The rules I was proposing was to set S-E to max and Min-SE to minimum > > range values for all entities, including UA. Since currently those > rules do > > not exist, and your sequence is legal. But, like a lot of random > sequences > > with current specification it produces random results. We need > additional > > constraints to avoid ambiguous situations. > > --00000000000048cce205792c3097 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Shinji,

UAC behavior is random, since i= f the maximum allowed refresh interval is=C2=A0 3600, both UA should put S-E with value=C2= =A03600 when sending the UPDATE req= uest. Both should respond with 3600 since it is within their acceptable lim= its. Why UAC need to refresh every 3600 seconds but sends an UPDATE with S-= E set to 2000 or 1800 makes no sense.

Regards,=C2=A0
_____= ________
Roman Shpount


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:52 AM OKUMURA Shinji &= lt;ietf.shinji@gmail.com> w= rote:
Hi,

UAS behavior is not random. Generally UAs do not care about the maximum value. They care only about the minimum value. Therefore UAS just copies S-E value in the response from the request.
In addition, it is not certain that an UA will attach a S-E header.

On 2018/10/26 20:22, Roman Shpount wrote:
=C2=A0> Shinji,
=C2=A0>
=C2=A0> 1. The rules I was proposing was to set S-E to max and Min-SE to= minimum
=C2=A0> range values for all entities, including UA. Since currently tho= se
rules do
=C2=A0> not exist, and your sequence is legal. But, like a lot of random=
sequences
=C2=A0> with current specification it produces random results. We need a= dditional
=C2=A0> constraints to avoid ambiguous situations.

--00000000000048cce205792c3097-- From nobody Fri Oct 26 19:02:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1480D130E1A for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:02:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ibYXlfWH4Lam for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com (mail-pl1-x630.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 656BF130E19 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id x6-v6so1284527pln.0 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:02:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2VtvIXyXmvgZhxRwSDyg181buwsVFgmrmpwZu8QneGE=; b=V4wbWB1hsRdiZ/cJ2/1fyI+yxdiA3xdDSw62TGXzSEJmwKCyaa72D7GdStyspq1Mjm qccriCmJDhJ8dYealVZ7rH0+AUJqVhGgj3frYK+P+D/J9uAoOZ9ATDFnsMbjtE/0zUMQ 8wYcT273KXc5pV24A3PuPrsFoiQWQk7KC5WRJo4vIYGV0bG53Y0WyOnigWTzi+KbVSd0 7JhL1b3tl8N4iMcVOhmCEbDviuQJfWXZsMdEiSudspULSP0enyhdPR7pMQB5Qg7zpBs8 Ox1o/2ePmgg/RFwVPq7ls+ZfN1p7RlDqxGseARRxxMEg+nSSsVmtH8PXvjxTh9yIJOlL cR/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2VtvIXyXmvgZhxRwSDyg181buwsVFgmrmpwZu8QneGE=; b=dBSRGhXYIFsDCSGX5RIUbzsqe4LA0un7jH3vd757/etxR2IcALVft7cE7LamcEH/h8 7HVcuJH2XGOfr72ade39DyOiE79nqHUW1DGAyp3kCt1HrGVRHYmbN72Y96bZNJPz5iAh aMMuX5sT5mJxK2lt5D0GcUBmQYWJHfKYphoY4yB8TN1Jifk7LsWY5yql3Hrwbstpceib J+rHB0Zt4K/ZlP9mx+gZe5nWwZq/Q/Wzqr+wUlO8c9cMFkTYV3i5xp72YjlF1iur0B+a ot2e0K4qydoUKNogA5HfJn5w0VBzz3Q3j6DpeEmL72vzNgG6p11IppxpUaygRikm24rY 8HLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLzMM0bdShc3zXplkvPt7fXjLj6rG48qj9v3kvlj4KQ2K+P2xvE aArTidqqDB/A0ssvgSCHtE5A1hIHA4I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5d6v123tEuGh74m+fmYDx/Ab1KmyoawbefpJapSSjY9c+Lj6VSJYgExg1cyC1Bi8hOPWcFTxg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:3341:: with SMTP id a59-v6mr5756386plc.138.1540605746868; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-f174.google.com (mail-pg1-f174.google.com. [209.85.215.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c3-v6sm3995737pfi.156.2018.10.26.19.02.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f174.google.com with SMTP id 32-v6so1325476pgu.2 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:02:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:b09:: with SMTP id t9-v6mr6155921pfi.36.1540605745974; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:02:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5e44573f-e592-4069-b97b-c3d778374515@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 22:02:14 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: SIPCORE , roland.jesske@web.de Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003a547b05792c3a48" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 02:02:29 -0000 --0000000000003a547b05792c3a48 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Shinji, No, it is not pointless to negotiate S-E within early dialog. Ignoring S-E header in UPDATE is not possible since proxy will not be able to reliably determine that this is an UPDATE within early dialog, which will result in different state for proxy and UA. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 11:44 AM OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi Roland, > > Since negotiating for a session-timer is pointless within early dialog, > it is unreasonable that the UPDATE for a different purpose is rejected. > > So my suggestion is that UA responds the UPDATE by 200 OK, and ignores > S-E header. > Of course UA may reject it for other reason. > > Regards, > Shinji > > On 2018/10/26 21:36, roland.jesske@web.de wrote: > > Hi > > But it will sent an 491 since there are open transactions on both sides. > > I have seen this race condition within our network many times. But not > within > > the initiation state but within the refresh state. Even if there is no > SDP > > within the UPDATE. > > The same apply for this case. Which I assume is very rare. I have never > seen > > such case. > > Best Regards > > Roland > > --0000000000003a547b05792c3a48 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Shinji,

No, it is not pointless to nego= tiate S-E within early dialog. Ignoring S-E header in UPDATE is not possibl= e since proxy will not be able to reliably determine that this is an UPDATE= within early dialog, which will result in different state for proxy and UA= .

Regards,
_____________<= br>Roman Shpount


=
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 11:44 AM OKUMURA Shinji <ietf.shinji@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Hi Roland,

Since negotiating for a session-timer is pointless within early dialog, it is unreasonable that the UPDATE for a different purpose is rejected.

So my suggestion is that UA responds the UPDATE by 200 OK, and ignores
S-E header.
Of course UA may reject it for other reason.

Regards,
Shinji

On 2018/10/26 21:36, roland.jesske@web.de wrote:
> Hi
> But it will sent an 491 since there are open transactions on both side= s.
> I have seen this race condition within our network many times. But not= within
> the initiation state but within the refresh state. Even if there is no= SDP
> within the UPDATE.
> The same apply for this case. Which I assume is very rare. I have neve= r seen
> such case.
> Best Regards
> Roland

--0000000000003a547b05792c3a48-- From nobody Fri Oct 26 23:24:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F2F130E01 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:24:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oHY9QqFho5xB for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com (mail-pf1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 092A1130DD5 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x433.google.com with SMTP id g21-v6so1552806pfi.7 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:24:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=ZJMq2W2H5YkzAPa1nP/6ZB6KeZ9EJyCKiXySMI8Odok=; b=WqjflXNr6u9CG7zWHdQqXSXPP9BrGof2DiHKsgWj/ddCPatj66YRoTrFMaQyqB0fcP cIadee1K4CSZSKEjTWkmhH2ul2oF2dnn67KKwTcSDme/aeAZTVVTGehEslkodLJKHces 16MkNwYSynZMIA2zKqgEfRMG3RHpWajUQWfLMyTqHlUcPNJDMgu3BCrRY8H+QeHYhaNh kBfgknRw5Ufry16KIY5160AAdHNOPXSqYg9YxWJxq4E5fV640Ib4W4T0XvZ3HTrhJgG5 I+yQrWXt6XLESo8rTv6XvmKU7spaDXuiMhdwCrEvDjWPmElXsxUxKQsHcnXDbLcr5PVT vhmg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=ZJMq2W2H5YkzAPa1nP/6ZB6KeZ9EJyCKiXySMI8Odok=; b=TuYmkyc2iCWotXeRwl0MW0Ici+ivtvaZLQXedd7FHDMa5l7lfGWzeQ3ENoI7le/QCe LPWJO4ES48bH4pfBxA0d4GjCzML7hc7wuGMBDrrzEAsx4J/YqH8odinXbuuI+z5rq9iX be+TsrOg3L5v6WSG+Mrjj9sQERsXzQgDWUcb3vLGzCltE+qDrt5lT/FewBsrUyYcLa2u MAAYiNQPMw0+OGRd4euTDmI1ThSolMUTxK8tvy5LipjiNDLzfbwqDYdgKSh0x6llISGI mYUx1UFuFcm1yUqcPcKxwLV/iwBOqt94ivZ0ZZVTL/B8etPl0VgcYGPUyc5uRBY/Id+3 Vahg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJydlK2h5/o3sP20sBXZCbTBzlH4A1XfQ9mFamGuLYb6BxCRQvn Xk11NYDNCwJXz7gtNS0NT7sl5PV4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dfnjm+U02kouLxjnIfcu3TO0CMBMVJYKzF2fpuuUQU2mdScyACkuhoDxsEQprZqIXXCLr6Ew== X-Received: by 2002:a63:e40e:: with SMTP id a14-v6mr6273024pgi.28.1540621468536; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q127-v6sm45417259pgq.19.2018.10.26.23.24.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:24:28 -0700 (PDT) To: SIPCORE Cc: Roman Shpount References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> <094a5215-db47-8810-c943-98dbeae8ed6d@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: <9dbc12fd-4a9a-ed76-4049-4a6d4ba0d87b@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 15:24:24 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181026-4, 2018/10/26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 06:24:31 -0000 Hi, This is a matter of an implementation and configuration of UA. If I implement UA, the required settings are the minimum and initial values for SE. The initial value is used for the SE of the UPDATE/INVITE request, but it does not mean the maximum value. If I must say, the maximum value is infinite. Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/27 10:59, Roman Shpount wrote: > Shinji, > > UAC behavior is random, since if the maximum allowed refresh interval is 3600, > both UA should put S-E with value 3600 when sending the UPDATE request. > Both should respond with 3600 since it is within their acceptable limits. > Why UAC need to refresh every 3600 seconds but sends an UPDATE with S-E set > to 2000 or 1800 makes no sense. > > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:52 AM OKUMURA Shinji > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> UAS behavior is not random. Generally UAs do not care about the maximum >> value. They care only about the minimum value. Therefore UAS just copies >> S-E value in the response from the request. >> In addition, it is not certain that an UA will attach a S-E header. >> >> On 2018/10/26 20:22, Roman Shpount wrote: >> > Shinji, >> > >> > 1. The rules I was proposing was to set S-E to max and Min-SE to minimum >> > range values for all entities, including UA. Since currently those >> rules do >> > not exist, and your sequence is legal. But, like a lot of random >> sequences >> > with current specification it produces random results. We need >> additional >> > constraints to avoid ambiguous situations. >> >> From nobody Sat Oct 27 00:00:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940B9130E01 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:59:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OwG9_j0k10bs for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x432.google.com (mail-pf1-x432.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::432]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6971C12DD85 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x432.google.com with SMTP id l17-v6so1595756pff.2 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:59:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SiJtciZEUJ7bLl3zUC7XZbs0GYLqwxWMd1MQ6iSiJ5E=; b=EP27j3YBHP4UIzqiaoHHMCkHQpcwwNt/N36gMzSnIqS1fVDLkDNUSbfX+jsJfxCWde sPj4nlivlfYiPRy8+Mk38SMS897fZ5uziSDzXysYHPBM4CUCzIlVmv3sbXyBX7KLHUEQ BV6ONeMYv0zRDPpJwKIhn8VMglYS/SnT3dPzt4fW9oyk1FCzWUYNgTMZjgS/Gj1k5Ocp 8EMkoWFMohIYyGkGeN84V9mVSAos2wWA81z5F8bcYusabkUIYnKZhQNkoI0jmG+XYksX +fSwtf1Teb5LdBIyYF5HnD58OzQllTOZkVqN17rNuvrsn1i1kwHpHvaYjy+n5/hW6Sr2 pqQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SiJtciZEUJ7bLl3zUC7XZbs0GYLqwxWMd1MQ6iSiJ5E=; b=dJe9B0y1SCwCCegLjwIEhYVVg3wzxoyvkJQZ1RVLBaBFkm+3EEBtWnRkV/lRGdOFHN OLCSdLjNCMcOwcUIBhquxLX3jr57gH/hYXPquEbkCzFO4Zuuj09mpqYAME14TfOGrY63 qQANzDkPd26s62R72462vpHRgMreOZrz7qjJ0F224/p45o6+gLDD58zBNahgowSnJZZS PWopWTi6a16ISkVukxSWlAEB2k7WB2TbZkNT5XsizSXuWeJPS5ttdUgNN64AQi7cGcmv FHKKUcjeYabJIOjuIlQvYTPGBXDv7wxkzD+5lrJVPead87iS36KG87EbUeTiogJUqRPo sb2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLruepR/j4sD/0vNhjcBSxoZtihmJ2VI9+KBpn3PN0YGCnW48mn l4mgFZvY31EhwnQi7Sj7/YHyRDMYQ0U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dUplTkVrtkN+IrbQBo5UFvKUQokvn22sM1XABIJI6tfg2zJOxMABhjHAy551f1hFIWjK/buA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:9a09:: with SMTP id o9mr5032720pge.94.1540623595785; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-f180.google.com (mail-pl1-f180.google.com. [209.85.214.180]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p11-v6sm14903445pfo.65.2018.10.26.23.59.54 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f180.google.com with SMTP id 30-v6so1466165plb.10 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:59:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:167:: with SMTP id 94-v6mr6239284plb.142.1540623594633; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:59:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> <094a5215-db47-8810-c943-98dbeae8ed6d@gmail.com> <9dbc12fd-4a9a-ed76-4049-4a6d4ba0d87b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9dbc12fd-4a9a-ed76-4049-4a6d4ba0d87b@gmail.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 02:59:43 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000173e5205793062aa" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 06:59:59 -0000 --000000000000173e5205793062aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Shinji, This still makes no sense to me. If UA does not need session timer (maximum allowed request is infinite), it should not insert S-E. If UA, for some reason need to do periodic session requests, it should add S-E with the maximum desired interval. Inserting random values for no reason is exactly what we are trying to fix with the new specification Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 2:24 AM OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi, > > This is a matter of an implementation and configuration of UA. > If I implement UA, the required settings are the minimum and initial > values for SE. The initial value is used for the SE of the UPDATE/INVITE > request, but it does not mean the maximum value. > If I must say, the maximum value is infinite. > > Regards, > Shinji > > On 2018/10/27 10:59, Roman Shpount wrote: > > Shinji, > > > > UAC behavior is random, since if the maximum allowed refresh interval > is 3600, > > both UA should put S-E with value 3600 when sending the UPDATE request. > > Both should respond with 3600 since it is within their acceptable limits. > > Why UAC need to refresh every 3600 seconds but sends an UPDATE with S-E > set > > to 2000 or 1800 makes no sense. > > > > Regards, > > _____________ > > Roman Shpount > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:52 AM OKUMURA Shinji > > wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> UAS behavior is not random. Generally UAs do not care about the maximum > >> value. They care only about the minimum value. Therefore UAS just copies > >> S-E value in the response from the request. > >> In addition, it is not certain that an UA will attach a S-E header. > >> > >> On 2018/10/26 20:22, Roman Shpount wrote: > >> > Shinji, > >> > > >> > 1. The rules I was proposing was to set S-E to max and Min-SE to > minimum > >> > range values for all entities, including UA. Since currently those > >> rules do > >> > not exist, and your sequence is legal. But, like a lot of random > >> sequences > >> > with current specification it produces random results. We need > >> additional > >> > constraints to avoid ambiguous situations. > >> > >> > > --000000000000173e5205793062aa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Shinji,

This still makes no sense to me= . If UA does not need session timer (maximum allowed request is infinite), = it should not insert S-E. If UA, for some reason need to do periodic sessio= n requests, it should add S-E with the maximum desired interval. Inserting = random values for no reason is exactly what we are trying to fix with the n= ew specification

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount


On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 2:24 AM OKUMURA S= hinji <ietf.shinji@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

This is a matter of an implementation and configuration of UA.
If I implement UA, the required settings are the minimum and initial
values for SE. The initial value is used for the SE of the UPDATE/INVITE request, but it does not mean the maximum value.
If I must say, the maximum value is infinite.

Regards,
Shinji

On 2018/10/27 10:59, Roman Shpount wrote:
> Shinji,
>
> UAC behavior is random, since if the maximum allowed refresh interval = is=C2=A0 3600,
> both UA should put S-E with value 3600 when sending the UPDATE request= .
> Both should respond with 3600 since it is within their acceptable limi= ts.
> Why UAC need to refresh every 3600 seconds but sends an UPDATE with S-= E set
> to 2000 or 1800 makes no sense.
>
> Regards,
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:52 AM OKUMURA Shinji <ietf.shinji@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> UAS behavior is not random. Generally UAs do not care about the ma= ximum
>> value. They care only about the minimum value. Therefore UAS just = copies
>> S-E value in the response from the request.
>> In addition, it is not certain that an UA will attach a S-E header= .
>>
>> On 2018/10/26 20:22, Roman Shpount wrote:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> Shinji,
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> 1. The rules I was proposing was to set S-E to ma= x and Min-SE to minimum
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> range values for all entities, including UA. Sinc= e currently those
>> rules do
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> not exist, and your sequence is legal. But, like = a lot of random
>> sequences
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> with current specification it produces random res= ults. We need
>> additional
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> constraints to avoid ambiguous situations.
>>
>>

--000000000000173e5205793062aa-- From nobody Sat Oct 27 03:11:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC982130DCA; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:10:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Will LIU To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154063505180.5634.13926600275057569014@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:10:51 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-05 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 10:10:52 -0000 Reviewer: Will LIU Review result: Ready Hi all, I have reviewed draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-05 as part of the Operational directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written with the intent of improving the operational aspects of the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be included in AD reviews during the IESG review. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. “The P-Served-User header field is used to convey the identity of the served user and the session case that applies to this particular communication session and application invocation. This document updates RFC5502 by defining a new P-Served-User header field parameter, "orig-cdiv". The parameter conveys the session case used by a proxy when handling an originating session after Call Diversion (CDIV) services have been invoked for the served user. This document also fixes the ABNF in RFC 5502 and provides more guidance for using the P-Served-User header field in IP networks.” My overall view of the document is 'Ready' for publication. ** Technical ** No. (As a new reviewer to SIP) ** Editorial ** As noted by author, [RFCXXXX↓] need to be replaced with the RFC number of this document. Regards, Will (Shucheng LIU) From nobody Sat Oct 27 08:35:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 892DD130DE3 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:35:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PnvcD6sPctBR for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62b.google.com (mail-pl1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4623130DDD for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id 30-v6so1822042plb.10 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:35:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=c9Hq9Lt7iUfNySMErLyvK/hF2teFL3omUpDdBAnKdHc=; b=cL9cY2+L58hCk0R+3fSgYcd7XFpCXUMyDZY4Jcd+lVpTymBCLR46hFeKIOgw/wwg39 3L1WAABuaaX8M6fcf01unMsW6S+0+1SCSWltM9xZfRh4xXsyNGskiFT37Y9fs86/XvFU 3EXXpONCougTzFQJDrjU2BZf2qvyA7eCtYEGAEYl9+PiH56LIcWPilifZXsgOH/EUrxa dxG3bKnFes9Z8+5QUJYZw2Ep07WfmHknXBmTDhyYzbiR1neJvrCZPJGDGwh2XvzuFNi/ Yn9Pjd2IFX7lg/rRx+k4D8THDq5JY+UilKbyGigQTeHjsc+vCpqhf/GBfhuEV9//yT5R pgyA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=c9Hq9Lt7iUfNySMErLyvK/hF2teFL3omUpDdBAnKdHc=; b=LHevUBDXtbj8ZpQUxSyygZV4YJo0nEu+IJjz5VoSz0VSWNYZuRvtpDzour8Z8uC4y1 PDIgPLZxrv9k+FWexE6tS5WdjKdnpHRfzOSdYbJ0xdn8vsXw/amyU5KiVvu0SKWJ9/oT 7gRaJeOiD1GCcJ66ytMOP5/iHih5PLw9QsA+c9uFI3nmUX5w5yny5iG8cL8S932Mgeay YN5MBJ/OtTrDBJfAtRCwQM6M4vcD9XuPTLQXz8WF2LA3hdx8LIFMUnac7N8MQFdpFxDR VNKO8uD0MNeLj3xJNW8ofacxBBRPQ51IoWvaigmJTd8DPf4/nlppQVwifUPKBcmJG+cf Sj0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJwje7MwzjJkUW8+KHy8OgE7R8a+dDM7d8mOWjmSCdiIEUQhHIY md2au2fv6g0SLGZ+fKeE6MtVRDVH X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eLjuc5+QAOCrQnfWnhCp7rxOKC47K3weKU1Pkf6jjMe2ktEDPB04xb+st7N6wAw7VlLiM5Wg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:76c3:: with SMTP id j3-v6mr7705186plt.339.1540654521374; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o9-v6sm21966986pgn.30.2018.10.27.08.35.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:35:20 -0700 (PDT) To: Roman Shpount , SIPCORE Cc: roland.jesske@web.de References: <5e44573f-e592-4069-b97b-c3d778374515@email.android.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: <29ad968a-2bdb-a78f-ffe9-d3873fdf3882@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:35:16 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181027-2, 2018/10/27), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 15:35:24 -0000 Hi, Regardless of a session-timer, UPDATE potentially has problem with transaction order. UA-B can not recognize that a glare situation is occurring in the following two sequences. And only UA-A can recognize that there is a possibility that the glare situation may have occurred.    A                        B    A                        B    |                        |    |                        |    |init-INVITE             |    |init-INVITE             |    |=======================>|    |=======================>|    |UPDATE                  |    |UPDATE                  |    |----------------------->|    |---------\              |    |                 200-UPD|    |          \      200-INV|    |               /--------|    |<=======================|    |              /  200-INV|    |            \           |    |<=======================|    |             \--------->|    |            /           |    |                 200-UPD|    |<----------/            |    |<-----------------------| Is your pointing related to this problem? The solution to this problem is so difficult. In order to avoid this problem I also wanted to define an UPDATE not related to session-timer. Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/27 11:02, Roman Shpount wrote: > Shinji, > > No, it is not pointless to negotiate S-E within early dialog. Ignoring S-E > header in UPDATE is not possible since proxy will not be able to reliably > determine that this is an UPDATE within early dialog, which will result in > different state for proxy and UA. > > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 11:44 AM OKUMURA Shinji > wrote: > >> Hi Roland, >> >> Since negotiating for a session-timer is pointless within early dialog, >> it is unreasonable that the UPDATE for a different purpose is rejected. >> >> So my suggestion is that UA responds the UPDATE by 200 OK, and ignores >> S-E header. >> Of course UA may reject it for other reason. >> >> Regards, >> Shinji >> >> On 2018/10/26 21:36, roland.jesske@web.de wrote: >>> Hi >>> But it will sent an 491 since there are open transactions on both sides. >>> I have seen this race condition within our network many times. But not >> within >>> the initiation state but within the refresh state. Even if there is no >> SDP >>> within the UPDATE. >>> The same apply for this case. Which I assume is very rare. I have never >> seen >>> such case. >>> Best Regards >>> Roland >> From nobody Sat Oct 27 18:07:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 217F4126DBF for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 18:07:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ffoIJTWaN2Mp for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 18:07:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu [18.7.68.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB79126CB6 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 18:07:02 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440f-9cfff70000000895-8f-5bd50bb39451 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 92.83.02197.4BB05DB5; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 21:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local (68-188-185-29.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com [68.188.185.29]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9S16wL4026751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 21:06:58 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <986b885d-f9be-bd08-c1e0-e13efa7c2ddc@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 21:06:57 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrPIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqLuF+2q0wZeF1hZff2xic2D0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxql/x1gKPrBWXJ+wgqWB8QxLFyMnh4SAicSbWZ/Zuhi5OIQE DjJJ7Om/xg6SEBL4zySx/YEZiC0sUCJx8tRDRhBbREBE4tn0f1ANJ1kkJh5cxgaSYBPQkphz 6D/YVF4Be4lFl66ygtgsAqoSc/4eAWsWFUiT+Nu5hBGiRlDi5MwnYPWcAoESO1Y/ZgaxmQXM JOZtfghli0vcejKfCcKWl9j+dg7zBEb+WUjaZyFpmYWkZRaSlgWMLKsY5RJzSnN1cxMzc4pT k3WLkxPz8lKLdE30cjNL9FJTSjcxQsKSfwdj13qZQ4wCHIxKPLwP7l+JFmJNLCuuzD3EKMnB pCTKe4L5arQQX1J+SmVGYnFGfFFpTmrxIUYJDmYlEV7GjUDlvCmJlVWpRfkwKWkOFiVxXlaT vVFCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWRkODiUJXkVg/AkJFqWmp1akZeaUIKSZODhBhvMADW/gAqrhLS5I zC3OTIfIn2LU5Wj63DSDWYglLz8vVUqctx2kSACkKKM0D24OLJ28YhQHekuY1x9kHQ8wFcFN egW0hAloyWIhkA+KSxIRUlINjMukNc7ds0+IPxRjcK9Qae4zCxmbX1uYxV5/nbcx8mLvWd+d Pd//foh/IlJ7vv+IQNgzmzpZx+se9QvCHYo6H82UfuNc37pCQ3xGSKGc7PoL0434E2aue/hy y5F0Nolzdu5uD1piZ+cVTprwa0LeOs5cHbF4ww7nPicug28FN4t/7Mrn7Pv9SomlOCPRUIu5 qDgRAExZA6cCAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 01:07:05 -0000 On 10/26/18 7:22 AM, Roman Shpount wrote: > 2. You are correct. I thought that collision rules apply to all Update > messages, but it does only apply to Update messages with SDP. It needs > to be analyzed further, but I think glare rule should apply to Update or > it would make it impossible to change any session timer parameters > non-ambiguously. The glare rules currently don't apply in these cases. I think it would be overreaching and cause trouble to call for glare to be reported in all cases of crossing UPDATE. If necessary, perhaps we could call for glare to be used in the presence of S-E in either of the crossing UPDATEs, either in all cases, or in the cases where the S-E values don't match. Thanks, Paul From nobody Mon Oct 29 03:03:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A7D130E42 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 03:03:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X1krWsPF4_U6 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 03:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it1-x129.google.com (mail-it1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D5EF130E3A for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 03:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it1-x129.google.com with SMTP id y123-v6so2560405itc.1 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 03:03:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=hnQYA0+kNIRhZEfRIPiDrfaR0uBYKkMFMPTwXzaa5/Y=; b=BYdZChYjoyDfKm3i6yhAhHohh6FXeFYjJDxJeRa2pqExiiiRAfG6Gom6wZYBs2pQ0k b3iOi3+nDpwVgIzPCj9+gcXakuElxfeGJcNj4er0vOlZoj7cHrks9WEIQ0pu4akSz36P KoBdK+QaVk3wYR7ga2F4HIqBi7MxPU17c2ddq+fmGmtR8471n0UEAROAu5Pj7FKutswA SNKdRp1AfceCeMaM60GON5gr+XEEgXXUmmi8hw9hXCHyKS0hLYRA5m8SMTufYB7RCB8l +nBrc2yd53O4rOsaKbrUZlg4Qgt/Cf784dN4ivI/BGcj0ihh30I1vVzQuiuPWcqNnZ60 BzYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=hnQYA0+kNIRhZEfRIPiDrfaR0uBYKkMFMPTwXzaa5/Y=; b=C7IA+ZB6IqosKx4GLuyqjMe0fOmJqQE4kaGUxwvPFoSax061lXUweHydWVUu4EGdtr f2zQvRt/wRhEVJ+cvWVseyHrp1TbbfTt6dkkjlJS27xrC5mLAdutSzMiWhTARCgSC2+8 qKUETrqsv6H8D+UihoCtKDI77KN/FxWMgOpa7ItvjCAeRrTfaPd+p/hzxe6Y1hpffPEC 4SczMUCOLncXdVILmCP55PAMyog2n9YKx0YGo/89y2XRLU01ujzHFnldGEYEsCx1O6Z7 VrRDemHal1c3x3FVtIdqF2w//cFTc1w3AXnhViy04cqZAqXj9Nz2iA5Okk2Z75YR88fj yJWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJxvzlfPEXFOZllGAeGPk5BF3Y4hjxW95pz3urv71iDpA9vDORY t+zU8isq0LW7ifZYTFdfQh4xW6Xq X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eHA1VWJsuCG1p1wyqsZR4WBJFG01GqJPxc9FivRyfhOak9KTSC6qleNYdI2ekiXQcTVFkHJw== X-Received: by 2002:a02:9b46:: with SMTP id g6-v6mr9372870jal.60.1540807431328; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 03:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.126] (x156176.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp. [122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s199-v6sm5676661itb.28.2018.10.29.03.03.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Oct 2018 03:03:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SIPCORE Cc: Roman Shpount References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> <094a5215-db47-8810-c943-98dbeae8ed6d@gmail.com> <9dbc12fd-4a9a-ed76-4049-4a6d4ba0d87b@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 19:03:50 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181028-2, 2018/10/28), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:03:54 -0000 Hi, If UAS does not need session timer, what do you think it should set in S-E header of the response? Regards, Shinji On 2018/10/27 15:59, Roman Shpount wrote: > Shinji, > > This still makes no sense to me. If UA does not need session timer (maximum > allowed request is infinite), it should not insert S-E. If UA, for some > reason need to do periodic session requests, it should add S-E with the > maximum desired interval. Inserting random values for no reason is exactly > what we are trying to fix with the new specification > > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 2:24 AM OKUMURA Shinji > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> This is a matter of an implementation and configuration of UA. >> If I implement UA, the required settings are the minimum and initial >> values for SE. The initial value is used for the SE of the UPDATE/INVITE >> request, but it does not mean the maximum value. >> If I must say, the maximum value is infinite. >> >> Regards, >> Shinji >> >> On 2018/10/27 10:59, Roman Shpount wrote: >>> Shinji, >>> >>> UAC behavior is random, since if the maximum allowed refresh interval >> is 3600, >>> both UA should put S-E with value 3600 when sending the UPDATE request. >>> Both should respond with 3600 since it is within their acceptable limits. >>> Why UAC need to refresh every 3600 seconds but sends an UPDATE with S-E >> set >>> to 2000 or 1800 makes no sense. >>> >>> Regards, >>> _____________ >>> Roman Shpount >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:52 AM OKUMURA Shinji >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> UAS behavior is not random. Generally UAs do not care about the maximum >>>> value. They care only about the minimum value. Therefore UAS just copies >>>> S-E value in the response from the request. >>>> In addition, it is not certain that an UA will attach a S-E header. >>>> >>>> On 2018/10/26 20:22, Roman Shpount wrote: >>>> > Shinji, >>>> > >>>> > 1. The rules I was proposing was to set S-E to max and Min-SE to >> minimum >>>> > range values for all entities, including UA. Since currently those >>>> rules do >>>> > not exist, and your sequence is legal. But, like a lot of random >>>> sequences >>>> > with current specification it produces random results. We need >>>> additional >>>> > constraints to avoid ambiguous situations. >>>> >>>> >> From nobody Mon Oct 29 12:34:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD6313107A for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:33:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cLVNuME3MHtH for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x530.google.com (mail-pg1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C2DC1276D0 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x530.google.com with SMTP id m9-v6so1686408pgl.13 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:33:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=akgtkWt4Hf45HH8ZuKG98+NaOMe8PGyyeUAGVJGeDH0=; b=L7ncRNxC14UXvAF97k28ODVirs4s4HJR4vp91GDpq5QnAsh0Eb48jGARB42pVkomLs 2Rmb9JyBB5SymeSGvKiCiBL4mKAHtkeQaI8lAEks2ykUBrbsbQGkRSVmuL9nYjEBgXVH Wya6u5UmyFhw9SIlPkiFWAxnY8Ku9dA5dzbLEuMZslcZPB/iCP9hOGSzXKGaLaJQ91uc VHHeSeUj7AhO4mvUEOMEIDgAvXYlqh9k33M2WDbpitucU0V3pkxRxUxlId6rSG9pDp7F 0QTkVtkabr7d6rIUpTWkplottmu6bF+khGIU2tn4CRtn5tcCMOeQRCeC9YgT9U+Yfv7B F4TA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=akgtkWt4Hf45HH8ZuKG98+NaOMe8PGyyeUAGVJGeDH0=; b=AUeQIO8myTvwm9yTrMSCiiGz9D7M9ouYLjXhz+Tp8YKYuZbgmgjXENkqrnlQylpBoU 1q7r1jUy051zIVQ4PZmdZ8DWXrVU32VNFW4PGzCuttsKoBcg0na/umqiJnQca9+xvlCr ssmc4T5n0tbDBK37kNqymTQyAoGmqboQts7slC8cuRBTjSPmA03pGs/ZMQ1/FPhS+p/h WNCZDcso00du6eruqSM079NnRf8IE54L5uDIcrT2n34pWtvel0QoKJAF+VCiqjJG42R+ 9Lm40Qf4jUNmZR9V8NzkIvvcwxbMExFjx9APIZJ//MY0x/EGQOcxfgfSErXuTqqQLIX7 O0NA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gIqKe4+PipTdcJ+kTbFzMv1a39A3Zg8ZhjrxrpsauUUCHOnDA2P V574Yp2jVVLskfUwRvjzxIF5CeqF9FQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5ema4rjuaSYlCXQIdM3xKslYDpQMKTVUwXIwn/KJzI4TGdW8XoaE4/dsP0H+0zaxU9oDyyzFQ== X-Received: by 2002:a63:2a11:: with SMTP id q17-v6mr15024998pgq.374.1540841636673; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-f180.google.com (mail-pg1-f180.google.com. [209.85.215.180]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j14-v6sm24439860pgh.52.2018.10.29.12.33.55 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f180.google.com with SMTP id s3-v6so4381116pga.12 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:33:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:9f11:: with SMTP id g17-v6mr16319261pfe.144.1540841635156; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:33:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <823bd796-3aeb-e493-8dea-9fee271e589d@gmail.com> <8D218C98-CC1D-4C12-B659-291E345E47F9@ericsson.com> <1c6ba051-e60c-57d4-2547-83389d3c125e@gmail.com> <13a568e6-9a23-7c9d-887c-67d57fd5b54c@gmail.com> <81b0855d-a126-278b-3375-2abbd343724e@gmail.com> <094a5215-db47-8810-c943-98dbeae8ed6d@gmail.com> <9dbc12fd-4a9a-ed76-4049-4a6d4ba0d87b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 15:33:42 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005198ad05796326c1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: UAS receiving mid-INVITE request with Supported:timer but no Session-Expires X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 19:33:59 -0000 --0000000000005198ad05796326c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 6:03 AM OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > If UAS does not need session timer, what do you think it should set in S-E > header of the response? > > In the response UAS, should include S-E value from the request if it is present and higher then minimum refresh time for UAS. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000005198ad05796326c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Oct 29= , 2018 at 6:03 AM OKUMURA Shinji <ietf.shinji@gmail.com> wrote:
If UAS does not need session timer, what do you think it should set in= S-E header of the response?


In the resp= onse UAS, should include S-E value from the request if it is present and hi= gher then minimum refresh time for UAS.
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--0000000000005198ad05796326c1-- From nobody Mon Oct 29 13:50:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD7BE13108C; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:50:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Vijay Gurbani To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154084621265.4963.11856647404649644525@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:50:12 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-05 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 20:50:13 -0000 Reviewer: Vijay Gurbani Review result: Almost Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-?? Reviewer: Vijay K. Gurbani Review Date: 2018-10-29 IETF LC End Date: 2018-10-26 IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat Summary: This draft is on the right track but has open issues, described in the review. Major issues: 0 Minor issues: 1 Nits/editorial comments: 1 Minor: - S1.3: I am not sure I follow the logic in the problem statement. Who is the "diverting" user? The user to who the call was destined? If so, best to say that explicitly. (To be sure, I looked into rfc5502 as well, and it does not define "diverting" user either.) A bit below (in S4), you use the term "served" user to refer to the diverting user. All in all, the terminology here could be refined. I suspect that the "originating" user is the callee. Concretely, I think that the first paragraph of S1.3 should be re-written, perhaps with a figure (?) to explain the call flow, or at least some context using Alice, Bob and Carol as the example in S7.1 does (I suspect that Carol is the "diverting" user here). Nits, typos: - S4, step 3: s/user an INVITE that/user as an INVITE that/ Also, the "secase" and "regstate" parameters are what you are standardizing this I-D, as such you mention this before S4 so the reader knows that these are the new parameters. Same for "orig-cdiv" parameter.